Ep 10: Influencer Hacks From a Seasoned Pro with Chalene Johnson

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Today we welcome Chalene Johnson onto the show, where she schools us on some strategies and her journey to major success as an influencer. After much trial and error, Chalene has learned that reputation is really a mixture of integrity and visibility, and our conversation flows around how to build these. She makes the point that influencers should not try to replicate others. If we are looking for inspiration, we should rather derive methods learned from influencers outside of our field.

When it comes to success strategies, Chalene implores us to learn from what is happening right now, instead of the past. She advocates for the importance of focus; narrowing down one’s services at the initial stage of building visibility.

She also shares some tips about how to run a good Instagram account, including keeping up with the platform’s changing algorithms. Chalene advises us on the importance of investing in one’s team, in good coaching, and the necessity of letting go of ideas if they just aren’t working.

Finally, we hear more about how Chalene’s integrity helped her overcome her bankruptcy and turn it into success. Tune in today for a wide-ranging conversation filled with hard-hitting wisdom from Chalene!

KEY POINTS FROM THIS EPISODE

  • Reputation is about integrity and visibility.
  • Integrity means being true to yourself, but also putting in the hard work to achieve legitimacy.
  • Visibility is about persistence, consistency, and timing.
  • Achieving differentiation can be done through drawing from influencers outside of one’s field.
  • Narrowing down one’s services is key to building a platform of visibility initially.
  • Diversification should only happen once visibility is in place.
  • Go with what works rather than what you care most about, at first.
  • How Chalene knew she had made it when her business became sustainable.
  • Translating visibility and influence into cash through consistency, originality, and observation.
  • Why themed accounts acquire followers more quickly and can be used to grow personal ones.
  • Investing in others, even at a stage where capital is low, helps a business grow.
  • Captioning posts with certain words increases and asking questions increases engagement.
  • The value of investing in good coaching, and then taking that coaching seriously.
  • Why sentimental ideas should be disposed of if they aren’t consistent with our goals.
  • How Chalene’s integrity helped her to succeed in spite of being $ 460,000 in debt.

TWEETABLE MOMENTS

“When I think about reputation, I think about integrity.” — @ChaleneJohnson  [0:05:10]

“I still see people studying the success of someone from ten, even fifteen years ago, and it’s outdated, it’s not gonna serve you.”— @ChaleneJohnson  [0:12:47]

“The ones who come back and are like, ‘We made our first million this year! Its crazy! I am actually living a life!’ Those are the people who – while they were broke – made their first hire. That’s the mindset to have when it comes to outsourcing.” — @ChaleneJohnson  [0:22:27]

“I would say, if you really know in your heart of hearts, that you can make this work if you just have the right people, resources, or skills, then go get those things, but don’t be afraid to invest in wise council.” — @ChaleneJohnson [0:31:02]

ABOUT CHALENE JOHNSON

A fitness, business, and lifestyle coach, Chalene Johnson is a self-made millionaire and captivating motivational speaker. Having shared the stage with Brian Tracy and Brendon Bruchard, she is adept at a variety of topics, from family to business management.

A gifted motivator, Chalene’s seminars, monthly subscription audio programs, and life-changing “camps” are annual sell-outs. Chalene is a Social Media Consultant and top Internet Marketer. Her popularity amongst fitness consumers and business professionals alike can be attributed to her genuine approach to inspire change and improvement in all areas of peoples lives.

In addition to her appearances on television shows like The Talk and LIVE! with Kelly where she provides tips on life balance, Chalene has also appeared in over 150 different exercise videos including Weight Watchers, Nautilus, and BoSu. Chalene has personally developed countless group fitness formats that continue to gain international popularity such as Turbo Kick, PiYo, Turbo Jam, Hustle, ChaLean Extreme, and Turbo Fire.

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

AJ Vaden

Chalene Johnson

IGHacks

Guinness Book of World Records

The 131 Method

Push

The Marketing Impact Academy

Take the Stairs

Brand Builders Group

Brand Builders Group Free Video Short Course

Brand Builders Group Free Call

Brand Builders Group Resources

The Influential Personal Brand Podcast on Stitcher

The Influential Personal Brand Podcast on Apple

So Chalene is one of my newer friends and I love this woman and I love her husband. And I love that they work together and of everybody in this whole space. I feel like in many ways me and AJ like their relationship and dynamic is really similar to me. And AJ, we’re, we’re partners. We’re best friends. We both work in the business and I mean, I don’t even know where to start to, to describe Shalene. She’s a New York Times bestselling author. She’s in the Guinness Book of World Records for being in the most fitness videos. She sold millions of videos, have millions of followers, her and Brett have sold multiple companies. They know everybody and she has a huge online following and she’s just awesome. And I think you’re gonna, you’re gonna get to see that. But she’s, she’s also very versatile, I think. You know, so she just had a new book come out called the one 31 method. She had a New York Times bestseller called push. She has a conference actually that I spoke at, which is how the first time we met was I spoke at her event for marketing impact academy. And so anyways, I think you’re gonna love her and Chalene thanks for making some time for us. We’re so honored that you’re here. Heck yeah, I would miss that. And I love the topic, so I’m excited. Yeah. So, so first of all, foundational question, you know, brand builders group is about reputation. That’s, you know, what we say we study reputation, where does it come from? How do you build one? What makes them fall apart? And just, you know, to start off the conversation, what, what are, what do you know, when you hear the word reputation, what does that make you think? What, what are your philosophies about how you’ve built one? Yeah. And you know, just kind of free flow on that concept a little bit. Yeah, well, a couple of things. When I think about reputation, I think about integrity. I think about the things that I look for in terms of a reputation. So I think there’s always like kind of a public reputation that a lot of people have. And then there are, because we’re, we’re so savvy and because with social media you can dig deeper and you can actually look at our political candidates, you can dig deeper and figure out if a person’s if what they’re putting out there is legitimately who they are. So your reputation, the way I view it is how do people know you? Like what are you good for? You know, like if somebody is looking for a particular solution to a problem, who’s the person they’re thinking of first? You know, and, and that’s the person usually has got the best reputation and or top of mind, right? So reputation is also how, how well known are you? Cause there may be someone who’s better at solving this problem, but people don’t know that person. So they don’t have quite the reputation. For me personally, I’m, when I think about my reputation, I’m always thinking about integrity. Hmm. Hmm. I love that. And that, that that’s probably one of the big Epiphanes for us was realizing that reputation is not just being great at, I mean, it’s being great at what you do. It’s having integrity, but it’s also having people know you because if they don’t know you, they can’t, they can’t do business with you. And you have a lot of people who know you. I mean, you’ve done so much stuff. I mean, you’ve like infomercials, infomercials. You have millions of social media followers. Like your podcast has had like north of 20 million downloads. I mean What, What do you think you do that makes so many people want to connect with you and to know you and not just like hear about you, but engage with you for the longterm and then, you know, how, how does someone else build that? Well, see, it’s a two part answer. I think when you said so many people, how do you get so many people? That’s time. And I wish there were a shortcut to that. It’s time in doing the right things along the journey. But I am today who I was for the most part, you know, 20 years ago. But I didn’t have a lot of people looking at me because time, right? So it does take time. It takes persistence, takes consistency. It takes, you know, being good for it. Again, when people shoot like every single time they know what to expect. And then aside from that, it’s realizing that the more you try to be like somebody else in your industry, the less unique you’ll be. For me, I, I think it’s really important that you, you look at people who are successful, who maybe there’s something about their identity or their brand that you relate to, but I don’t think that should be somebody in your industry. I think that’s when you get August. A great example of this is for me, when I got to a place in my career where I was trying to be known for like 20 different things, I really desperately wanted to create workshops for women to learn how to start their own small businesses from home and be able to stay on with their kids. And I was a new mom. My son was like two years old and I was trying to hold these, I was trying to hold events in hotels because that’s what I saw like you know, other business leaders doing. But I wasn’t known for that and no one was showing up and I was spending a fortune, this is kind of even before social media is spending a fortune trying to promote these through direct mailers and advertising and you know, you name it other than social media and it just, it wasn’t working me and I realized, okay, there’s all these different things I’m trying to do and trying to do fitness and I’m trying to be a paralegal and I’m trying to write an ebook and I’m trying to start a personal training franchise business and I want to teach these seminars to women and I also want to create workouts for health clubs. And at a certain point I realized like I just have to focus on one, I need to be known for one of these things. And I didn’t pick the one that I was the most passionate about. Interesting. I think the one I know and, and so I don’t know, I think that advice kind of varies based on your situation. But for me, we broke and so I needed to go with the one that provided me the quickest opportunity to be known. And at that moment it was fitness. And so I decided I was going to go. I was going to, I wasn’t going to get rid of everything, but I was going to scoot you to the side of my plate for a little while until I could be known for fitness. And once I was known for fitness, then I felt I had permission and the eyeballs I had the ability to, a platform to reach other people with these other things. I wanted to do one at a time, by the way, two, you can’t do them all at once. That’s another lesson I learned the hard way. But you know, once I, once I started realizing, okay, I’m going to do fitness full time, when I, what I did wrong, Rory, is I, I bought every exercise person’s videos you could think of and studied them and was not myself. I was trying to be them. It’s like, okay, so, so this is what it looks like to be successful in this industry. So that’s how I need to be in. And that just wasn’t working. And so my question is to, to really look outside of your industry at personalities or brands that you relate And what was your big cause? Cause you, you know, I’d like you heard me talk about she hands wall at the event and like focusing and breakthrough and you’d be someone that I think of is a great example of that. Like you broke through in the fitness space and then, you know, since you, you have, yeah, there’s motivational speaking you do, you do teach women now, you know and other, you know, not just women, but people had at run their own business marketing impact academy and you know, like that course in terms of like, what you teach is incredible. Like I’m still working my way through it, but it was, it was so powerful that I was like, this is incredible. And I do want to talk about some of your social media strategy, but when did you feel like you actually broke through? Yeah, that’s a really good question. For me, the way I would define that is it’s able to kind of sustain itself. Meaning I’m, I’m making some money from it. I have a certain amount of notoriety and not that you can ever set it and forget it on any part of your business, but it’s to a place where it, it’s not losing money. It’s making money. It’s making decent money. I have, I have systems and strategies in place so I don’t have to be in it every day. And that’s when we started expanding. So we first started in health just serving health clubs and fitness instructors. And then once I felt like, okay we, we’ve, we’ve got a system in place, we’ve got trainers in other states, we have programs in hundreds of thousands of instructors now or 60,000 instructors at the time. We’re teaching this particular program before we branched off and decided, okay now let’s dabble in fitness apparel, which was, you know, kind of an offshoot of a branch and then, but we didn’t feel like we had the ability to do that until we were known for producing really great fitness content to the fitness community, not consumers. How did you do it later? So how did you, like how did you let’s say, cause I know there’s, I know we have some clients and brand builders and we have, you know, lots of people that are probably watching who were kind of in that fitness space and they’re like, yeah, maybe they have a few thousand followers on Instagram or something. And they’re going, how do I turn this into money? Yeah. cause it’s a long way from going, okay, I have some people following me and I’m like cheering fitness tips too. I’m doing infomercials, I’m launching programs. I have a fitness, I have an apparel line, I’ve got 60,000 trainers. So like she was like high level over view what that It looks like I can but with a big asterisk next to it because I think it’s really important for people to realize when you’re looking at success, right? Success leaves tracks. But if those tracks are 20 years old, they’re not going to do any good. You know what we did? Let’s see. When we started that company in 1990 I think officially 1998 maybe 99, you know, and what we did back then is, I mean it’s almost 20 years ago is completely different from what I would tell people to do today. But yet I still see people studying the success of someone from 10 even 15 years ago when it’s outdated. It’s just, it’s not going to serve you today. Like, even starting a podcast, like today, I always tell people, you know, if you’re looking at so-and-so and they’ve got all this notoriety because they’re a podcast or, well, they started their podcast eight years ago, you know, so you’ve got to look at like, what do I need to do today? And if I were a fitness person today, oh, I’d be so excited because it’s so much easier. It’s so much easy. You don’t have to have an infomercial. You can create your own. You don’t have to. As we did at the time, social media wasn’t even a thing. My space where I don’t even know what year my space came out, but many years after we started our business, so it was traveling, it was going to locations, it was finding the right kind of people and then placing them in different states and, and hiring people based on their reputation, not their bodies, not their knowledge of fitness, but their reputation and and know. So I think that’s still pretty true. Like, who you surround yourself with is a representation of your brand. It’s a reflection of your brand. So that’s what we did back in the day. But today I would say for anyone who’s watching who’s, who’s in fitness, the things that remain true are to be consistent, to be 1000%. You not to look at what every, the worst thing you can do is look at what everyone else in your industry is doing because it will confuse you and it will water down your unique message, look outside of your industry. And that’s how you can become a disruptor. That’s how you can do things that feel unique. Not to mention the fact that it’s always depressing, I think, and discouraging to always be with like watching your competition. You just, you just, then you’re always going to be doing a comparison. But if you’re looking at somebody who you know, is, is someone that you like, but they’re not in your industry, there’s no envy. You know, there’s just admiration. I love that. I love that. So let’s talk about the social media for a second. And the two things, I mean, I’m just amazed like your engagement and your realness is, is Eh, I assume they go hand in hand, but the, the two things systematically I’m wondering about, number one is your budget and two is your schedule because you produce so much content. Yeah. And Yeah. And you can, maybe you can pick which order you talk about the men, but it’s like how much money do you allocate towards creating content, promoting content, et cetera. So that’s like the budget and then the schedule piece of it of just like, how do you go? Okay. I mean you have over a million on Facebook. I think you have over a half million on Instagram. You’ve got six fingers on Twitter and like how do you keep up with all of this? I know you have a team, but at the strategy level, what’s your, yeah, you do. So The most important piece probably is to understand that we have a lot of social media that doesn’t have my name attached to it that we manage. So on Instagram, we currently manage about 2 million. In terms of like my account and then other accounts that we own that relate to something that we promote, but they may not be, they may not be a reflection meat. For example. I call these things and this is something anyone can do and you can start without a budget, right? So let’s assume that most people watching don’t have a social media budget, but what they do have as a budget of time and one of the fastest, quickest ways to build an account today. Again, you don’t know if you look at what I did when I started on Instagram, that will not serve you because everything’s different. What we’re looking for on Instagram and how much time we have all everything’s different. The quickest and fastest way to grow an account today is to create an account that is themed or what I like to call a feature account. So an example of this would be home workouts underscore the number four, the letter u homework outs underscore for you. That’s an account that we own. I think it’s like 400,000 followers and all that we do there is post repost other people’s content. So somebody posts up a a carousel video showing like five different exercise ideas that you could do at home. We repost it. So anyone who’s looking for, you know, creative ways to get fit at home, we’ll follow that account. They don’t have no has anything to do with me or that my team manage it per se. It’s just content that serves them. It’s the kind of stuff that they’re looking for. So now why would we do that? Well, number one, people are less likely today to follow an individual personal brand on Instagram because we don’t have time. I’m not even, I’m following my sister and I, I haven’t even seen her posts and like two weeks, you know, there’s so many people that we really know and we really like. We don’t even see their stuff because frankly, I hate to say this, but it’s just not that interesting. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t serve us and we’re looking for things on Instagram, on Facebook, on Pinterest that serve us. Either they entertain us, motivate us, educate us, inspire us. And if it’s not one of those things, we don’t look at it. And the algorithm is determined by your activity on the app. So if you look at your explore page, you’re going to see, it’s going to be very obvious for your interests are, you know, sometimes embarrassingly obvious what your interests are. But so we grow and spend a lot of time, we spend a lot more time growing those other accounts than we do. My personal account. So let me give you an example. So Rory, if, if I were a, let’s say a a therapist, I’m someone who does, you know, normal talk therapy, it’s going to be next to impossible for you to grow a personal brand on Instagram next to impossible because how does that serve anyone? Right? Like it’s, it’s a person. We just don’t do that as much anymore. It happens, but not as much. However, if you know, okay, someone who’s looking for an online therapist is like they’re dealing with things like Ma and maybe you specialize with people who deal with post traumatic stress or anxiety and depression. Well then I would start an account that’s got really relatable, either funny videos or means or like really moving posts to kind of post to go viral and I would repost those so that this whole page would be devoted to either uplifting or intel. You know, the types of posts that are very enlightening, the types of posts that someone who’s dealing with anxiety and depression or post traumatic stress, they’re going to see these posts and go like, that’s what I needed today and I would grow one of those accounts. Now your next question might be, well then how does that therefore then build your own brand? Well, what are the allows you to do is you control that. That’s your, you own that media outlet. You own it, which means you can do stories and it’s in the stories where we go deep. It’s in the stories where we want to know like, okay, well who’s behind this? You know, it our, our know at the moment, and this will all change a year from now, but at the moment your, your profile or your, your page where you’re posting let’s say again on Instagram is, you know, it’s a little bit curated. It looks nice. There’s some thought process to it. Some people they really curated, but when you want to know who someone really freaking is, you watch their stories. So when someone’s like curious, like who’s behind the stage, that’s when they’ll watch their stories. That’s when they’ll look at your story highlights. And that’s where you have the opportunity to promote a, an opt in to build your email list, to promote a Webinar, to promote a free resource to promote your business, whatever it is. So think about for everyone watching, if you’re trying to build, continue building your own personal account. Go as I do. Continue building your own personal account, but start another Instagram account of what you can. Almost outsource all of it and think about, okay, the person who I’m trying to reach, what are they looking for? Like what’s serving them today on Instagram? And repost that type of content and it’ll grow so fast. We had two accounts in the last six months that we did from zero to 10,000 with this exact strategy. Ah Wow. So, and then so talk to me about the outsourcing part. Cause that’s Kinda the overwhelming part, right? Is like oh my gosh, I don’t even have time up with Instagram and just the schedule in general. Like how frequently should you go live, how frequently should you do a story? How frequently should you post on your feed? And like, you know, four different accounts like Yeah. And I, I don’t know if that’s going to be useful to your audience because most people don’t have four or five different accounts. So even our calendar and our schedule is like [inaudible]. Like it would overwhelm you, but please know this, it didn’t happen overnight. It started with one part-time temporary person when we didn’t have the money to hire anyone, but we couldn’t afford not to have help. You know, people always say I, I can’t outsource because I can’t afford to. And I always say, you can’t afford to, cause you haven’t had faith in others. Like when you have faith in others, you have to believe that when you invest and empower other people, that’s what allows you to grow right now that the ceiling is directly above your head. And, and I it because I was there for, I don’t know how many years I just refused. I felt like it was, I felt like it was lazy of me. If I could do it myself, why would I outsource someone to do that? I felt like it would take more time for me to explain it to somebody else. A, B, we can’t afford, we’re not making any money. How could I hire someone to help us when we’re not making any money that does. But we will when we met, we will when we’re, we’re making money. But at a certain point, I just realized I’ve got so much stress and we ain’t gonna make money until I hire someone and have the faith. I have to have the faith in God and the faith in someone else that this is what we need. And that’s why I say part time temporary. So I think the place that you start is by giving yourself permission to give this a temporary try. Look for someone just part time just to help you with social media and create a long list of all the things that they can do and understand that even if you hire like the best person on the planet, they’re going to be able to do half of it. Okay. [Inaudible] Okay. You still there shoving this of the tens of thousands of entrepreneurs that I’ve worked with, the ones who come back year after year to our live event, the marketing impact academy, and still have a brilliant idea, still have everything they need, but they’re still baroque are the people who can’t accept that mindset and the ones that come back and like I like dude, all my, we met our first million this year. It is crazy and I’m actually living a life. And those are the people who while they were broke, because that’s when you need it made their first hire. No, it’s mindset when it comes to outsourcing, you know? So I could go into detail about our calendar. But I think that would overwhelm people because, and I also don’t think that’s the right step. I’m, I’m a big believer in not giving people steps that aren’t useful to them in this season. And I think most people watching this season that you’re in is either making your first hire your outsourcing or, or doing additional outsourcing, going to the next level. Like now maybe you needed a strategist or someone who’s really good at web development or marketing or copywriting, like who is your next hire? If you’ve already, you’ve already wrapped your head around that mindset. Who is it you need next to take you to the next level without it diminishing your life? Like I’m all about like, you know, it’s not about money for me, it’s about life. I don’t want, I don’t want to work hard. I want to do what I love and live more. And that means I’ve got to empower people. That was that. That is so true. And that I think our Lives changed the day a j said this out loud one time. I don’t remember when it was, but she was like, she was like, I don’t need more money. I just need more time. And like when we just embraced where it’s like we just want less stress, we want less complexity, we want [inaudible]. It’s just like, but we want to still impact people and all these dreams. And you, it’s like you always have to have that face first. And then the rewards for taking that risk is that you grow, you grow like just enough and a little bit more to cover that person. And then you take another risk and you grow just enough and a little bit more. And then one day you look around and go like, I actually have a team and we have a, we have a real business here that operates. Yeah. Makes real money. So for those people that are looking for a specific strategy for Instagram, like how often to post, how often to go to stories, how often to do ige TV, how often to go live because it’s a beast. Like let’s, let’s talk about it. Instagram has turned it into, oh look, she only has one hearing on look good. Look at that. I wonder where the other one, I didn’t even notice it. You know. Well, we should put it on this year because this year is hidden. Standby everybody. We have a fashion photo. The, all of that, like Instagram has become a beast in a good way, but it can be really, really, really overwhelming for people. But the potential there is amazing. So we, my team, I’ve got a team, right? Like I can’t say that I do all this. I’ve got an amazing team and every quarter they release all of the research that we do about Instagram because it changes that often. And we were released a free report. It’s called Ige hacks, or it’s our free report that we do. Once a quarter. You can go to shaleen.com forward slash Igg hacks and it’s a free download. It’s awesome. Just like yeah, I was going through it about like to how much the carousels matter and things like that. And I was like, Gosh, I had no, like, carousels weren’t even on my freaking radar. And I think, I think there was something in there that was like the only comments that count have to have at least three characters and more like there was all this stuff in there that I saw that I was like, oh my gosh, this is so helpful. So we’ll put a link. Simple things, little simple things like how often to post. What, just by putting one little sentence in your caption turns the, the engagement boost it by 70 to 80%. And even how do you use Ige TV? That’s a relatively, it’s not a new feature, but how the, the latest release from Instagram where they allow a, a snapshot of that just show on your profile. Like that’s a game changer and how to do that. Like how to tweak the caption instead of titling the video using that to ask a question. So you get engagement. Like little things like that make a huge difference. Yeah, that is awesome. So Shalene johnson.com/ige hacks, right? That’s where we go for the report. Okay. Is that where people should go to connect with you or is there anywhere else additionally Swam? Yeah. Yeah. Good Instagram. Follow me on Instagram because I, you know, I, I’m obviously not gonna have a real life conversation from my website. But if you send me a DM on Instagram, there’s a pretty good chance I’ll see it. So, and I, I really, I outsource all of my other accounts. So you know, we’ve got a bunch of different, as they called them themed accounts on Instagram and they’re all handled by a team of amazing social media experts here at team Johnson. But my personal account, I handle, and it’s really important to me because that’s how I connect with the girl I’m serving the guy I’m serving like that I can get their feedback, I understand their language. If you look at those conversations, that’s when you can, that’s when people will tell you what program they want next for you. They will tell you about your reputation. They will tell you about your brand. They will tell you what people think about you. And, and I can’t think of anything that’s more PR. It’s priceless. You don’t have to pay for our focus group in, you know, 15, 20 years ago we would’ve had to pay for a focus group and send out surveys. Now just asked, do a survey on Instagram. You’ll have your information five minutes later. I love that. And, and so here’s the last thing I want for you to talk about because I think it’s easy for someone to look at you and like, oh, I have this great family and all these followers and look at this. But there was a, there was a real lifetime where you and Brett almost in make it as entrepreneurs. And I remember hearing some of those stories that you guys have been through. Some you’ve been through some tough times and you’ve been through some background of backup against the wall times. And I, I’m always, you know, whenever I do this, I’m always thinking about the person that you know is listening to this cause this is free. And maybe that’s like, this is their last, this is the last thing they’re listening to before they just like throw it in and you throw the towel in and wind it down. And you know, if somebody is in that place right now where they’re feeling that discouragement or despair or feeling like, you know, I don’t, I don’t know that I have what it takes. Can you just talk a little bit quickly about, you know, how, how have you been through some of that and, and what did you learn kind of, what would you say to that? Hmm, that’s a really good question because I always fear that somebody does need to throw in the towel on an idea that isn’t working and it’s really clear to everyone else and they just don’t want to be a quitter. You know what I mean? Like I worry about that person a little bit. So I’m not of the mindset that you never quit but make an informed decision. Right. Like, if you know you have what it takes or your idea has what takes and it’s just a matter of time or the right people or the right knowledge of the right resources, well then don’t give up. But, but seek wise counsel, I mean the two things that have helped our business the most are investing in coaching people who will tell it to you like it is that I’m paying you to help me be better, better in business, better in therapy, whatever, better as a person, better as a parent, whatever it is I’m paying when I’m paying somebody and it’s the, they have a vested interest to help me do better. I know I’m going to get really good advice and probably honest advice that your friends and family members may not be qualified to give you. I would say coaching and then number two. So I guess these both relate to people and that is hiring, you know, and, and again, one temporary part time, person at a time and sometimes that first person doesn’t work out, keep going, you know, pick the thing that’s giving you, that’s taking up the most time, that really doesn’t need you as much as cause I know you think everything has to be you. Rory, when Brett and I were at our very lowest we were own $460,000 in debt, I know. Tell me about it. And that’s how I discovered it. Like I literally stuck my head in the sand when it came to our finances. We were really disconnected. You handle all that, I’ll handle all this, I’ll make the money. You manage the money. And then, and I, I knew that we were struggling, but then when I wasn’t getting the answers I needed, I started doing some investigating and you know, knock the wind out of my sails to find out. My husband had a really serious gambling addiction and needed treatment and we were looking at bankruptcy, you know, I went and met with a couple of extras. So like, you know, you need to file for bankruptcy and then we have to figure out how to take out some personal loans to pay back some of these characters. And we just decided together, I mean I’m really giving you like the shortcut version, but it was ugly and nasty. And there are times where I’m like, okay, well if he doesn’t do this, I’m gone. Like, you know, literally even with two small children, I just, I, when I say integrity, this is what I mean by that. I don’t worry about anything because I know what I’ll do. I don’t know what’s going to happen. No matter what does happen. I know who I am and therefore I know what I will do. I don’t have to worry about what everyone else is going to do or how they’re going to react because no matter what happens, I know who I am. And in that moment I had to remember that it could go a lot of different ways and I just had to re go like, okay, if it goes this way, I go here. If it, if this happens, I’ll do this. And they’re all consistent with who I am and who we are. As a couple, long story short ended up being the greatest blessed thing to our marriage because then my husband got into therapy, I got into therapy, I finally, I finally knew who my husband was and you know, we could have thrown in the towel then we could have both gone back to our full time jobs. But I was positive, positive. We could make it work if we, if we could get on the same page. So I would say if you just, you really know in your heart of hearts that you can make this work. If you just have the right people, resources or skills, then go get those things. Go get those things. But don’t be afraid to invest in wise counsel because you know, I’ve had great ideas, I’ve had great ideas, I’ve had businesses that were kind of making it and have hired coaches are like, all right, this has to go. I know you love this lean, but it has to go. And then when they lay it out, like here’s how much stress it’s causing you, here’s how much money, it’s not making you. Here’s the potential even for where to work. And then when you look at it in black and white, you’re like, you’re right. It has to go. And sometimes the people closest to you either don’t want to be honest, don’t want to dim your light, don’t want to hurt your feelings. But in the long run, if you’re able to separate yourself, like it’s not a reflection on you, it doesn’t mean you’re not a good person. Doesn’t mean you don’t work. It means this idea isn’t consistent with the life that you want. I love that. And it got so powerful to be able to separate your ideas from your identity and to just, you know, manage ideas on their own merit. And, you know, meanwhile know that your identity is rooted in integrity and you’ll make it. And if you really know that, I mean, that speaks to me. It’s just like go get the people, like it’s, you go, go get the teams, you know, do the, you know, do the ads, do the videos, like hire the copywriters, like get the coaches cause you and that’s, yeah, it’s all face. So. Well, thank you for sharing that story. I know that that’s, yeah. Intimate story of, of a time long ago. That was a very, very real challenge though. And thank you for your inspiration and for making time here, Shelly. I know it’s really, really hard to catch you these days and we appreciate you so, so much. Oh, I’m excited. It was great to be here. You are awesome. And J and I, you know, appreciate you and Brett and your encouragement and support of us so much and we just, we wish you, we wish you the best. Alright. I just want to say thank you. Thank you for serving so many people in my community. I just, I hear such amazing things about you and your team and how much you guys really care and the personal touch. And you know, we’re in an age where most people, myself included the way that we work with people is through online courses. You know, people kind of go through that themselves, but you guys have something really special. It’s really unique what you guys do. And I think it’s part of why your reputation proceeds you like you are the guy when it comes to personal branding. And we sure do appreciate what you guys do over there. Thank you so much.

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