WATCH THE INTERVIEW
LISTEN TO THE EPISODE BELOW
When Rory Vaden first walked into Lee Pepper’s marketing “war room,” he had no idea how that moment would change the trajectory of his career. On this episode, we sit down with Lee Pepper (a U.S. Army veteran, marketing strategist, and author of Never Outmatched) to unpack how to blend military precision with data-driven strategy to make your marketing stronger and more powerful than ever.
Lee shares the frameworks that helped him grow Foundations Recovery Network sixtyfold and lead a $300 million exit. Our conversation bridges the gap between creative intuition and hard metrics, helping you see marketing not as a gamble but as a real, measurable science.
If you’ve ever felt deceived by vanity metrics or frustrated by agencies that can’t show clear ROI, this episode will teach you how to build your own “vending machine” — where every dollar in leads to measurable value out.
KEY POINTS FROM THIS EPISODE
- How to replace your marketing guesswork with measurable inputs and outputs
- The secret to making marketing a language your CFO understands
- How to build your own “vending machine,” where every dollar IN leads to measurable value OUT
- The expensive difference between a marketing strategy and marketing tactics
- How to create your own KPIs that tie directly to revenue
- Why force multiplication (i.e. repurposing and amplifying your content) is the secret to doing more with less
- The right way to test paid traffic without going broke (so you can avoid “Vegas marketing”)
- How AI is reshaping search and how to respond so your content doesn’t get lost
QUOTABLE MOMENTS
“Marketing stops being a mystery when you make decisions from data instead of opinion.” – Lee Pepper [00:03:15]
“I don’t create traffic. I capture traffic.” – Lee Pepper [00:24:15]
“You can’t win a war just because a soldier knows how to shoot. That’s tactics without strategy.” – Lee Pepper [00:18:05]
“If you know your numbers, marketing becomes a vending machine: you put money in, you know what comes out.” – Lee Pepper [00:13:25]
“Most businesses look at marketing like a tax. You should see it as your revenue engine.” – Lee Pepper [00:45:00]
About LEE PEPPER
Lee combines his experience in the U.S. Army, IT, and marketing to build strong teams and effective leaders. With over 10,000 behavioral healthcare calls personally reviewed, he brings a deep understanding of how to solve marketing, operational, and attribution challenges. Today, he consults with multiple behavioral health programs, helping them set up KPIs, assess marketing and admissions teams, build brands, and strengthen leadership.
During his time at Foundations Recovery Network, Lee played a key role in driving company growth that led to a $350 million acquisition by Universal Health Services. He also built internal digital marketing teams for Kohlberg & Co.-backed organizations such as Meadows Behavioral Healthcare and SpecialtyCare, combining data-driven strategies with strong leadership to drive results and improve performance.
Lee’s work includes launching two treatment centers, creating four podcasts, and leading the Heroes in Recovery social movement. His campaigns have been featured in The Passion Conversation, and his innovative marketing strategies have helped transform how behavioral healthcare organizations connect, serve, and grow. He also continues to give back by mentoring veterans through his local Veteran’s Treatment Court.




