Category: MARKETING

Ep 140: How to get millions of followers on TikTok with Maggie Thurmon

Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for tuning in to listen to this interview. We are so excited to bring you this information and wanted to let you know that, Hey, there’s no sales pitch coming from anything that we do with this is all our value add to you and the community. However, if you are somebody who is looking for specific strategies on how to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and we offer a free call to everyone that’s interested in getting to know us and is willing to give us a chance to get to know them and share a little bit about what we do. So if you’re interested in taking us up on a free strategy call, you can do that at brand builders, group.com/summit. Call brand builders, group.com/summit. Call. Hope to talk to you soon on with the show.

I have certain times in my life and career where I just feel old. I used to be like this young guy making the moves up and coming and now people like the woman you’re about to meet Maggie Thurman. They make me feel old because I guess I am old. I am almost 40 now. And young Maggie here is the daughter of Dan Thurman. Who’s been a longtime friend and acquaintance. We had him on the podcast a while back. But Maggie is 18 years old and she has been on Tik TOK for about a year. And within one year she has managed to accumulate not one, not two but 3 million followers in a year. And it’s dramatically changed her life. She’s had over a hundred million likes on her videos and her and her dad do some fun things together on Tik TOK.

But it’s really been her personal account, which is just named it’s at Maggie Thurman that has really just blown up. And so I figured we got to bring in, you know, we bring in a lot of the old timers to learn from, and it’s like, we got to bring in the young movers and shakers. So Maggie, thanks for making some time for us. Thank you for having me. This is awesome. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, I’m so proud of you. Like I know it’s weird. Like we’ve never met before, but it’s just really, it’s really cool. So can you just like, just tell us the story, like, how did you get started? Why did you get on there? Was it a joke? What have you, did you start with like, I’m going to become an online influencer or what happened?

Yeah, absolutely. I downloaded the app beginning of my senior year, which was fall of 2019. And I originally just got it because I kind of had no idea what it was. The app had previously been musically, which I had been on for a brief time and then deleted it. And then once it became tictok, I kind of wanted to see what everyone was talking about. And my first post actually was essentially saying that I was going to make one tiktok for every week of my senior year. So at the end of my senior year, I could look back at my Tik TOK page and it would be somewhat of a scrapbook like a really cool online scrapbook that the whole world could see if they wanted to cool

One a week. That was the original, like one a week,

Once a week. Yeah. and that post got maybe 80,000 likes and that was insane to me. I thought I had peaked. I thought that was the highest I could go. Okay.

I definitely would have thought I would have peaked. I, if I got 80,000 views on one of my videos, I’d be calling everybody. I know being like I am a baller. Yeah.

Really funny. I actually, I walked into school the next day sat down in my first period anatomy class and people were telling me that they saw me on there for you page last night. I was like, I know isn’t that crazy. And so from there I got a little bit of a following. I think I got about 15,000 followers of people who just, they didn’t know me at all, but they were interested in seeing my senior year. And a few weeks later I kept doing the one a day tech talk. I did a Tik TOK dance with my dad too, for delicious. And that tic talk blew up. I think it has 3.5 million likes at this point. A few maybe like 20 million views or something, not sure. But it was all over tech talk. I saw it on Twitter. I saw it on Instagram and that is what really kind of gave my page a lot of traction.

And from that I got a few hundred thousand followers. I think I was at 400,000 or something. And then I just kept going about doing tech talks every week. For my senior year, my dad was in a lot of them just because we genuinely had so much fun doing this. My dad travels a lot or he did before COVID for his job. He was a motivational speaker. And so even when he would fly home really late at night and only have a day here, he would make time to learn a dance and we’d go do a dance. And it was just this really cool thing that the two of us had. And then I’d say we’re really changed, was quarantine.

So hold on a second. So pause right there. When was the, so you originally were going to do one a week, but then you started doing one a day.

I I’d say the one a day kind of started in quarantine, but from the one a week, it kind of got to the point where if we could do more than one within our busy schedules, we’d shoot for two, but it was still a lot of work trying to get the two of us to learn a dance or do whatever we wanted to do and get it to a point where we wanted to publish it. But one a week was the original plan and it slowly built up to the goal of one a day.

Okay. And so then, and then have you been doing one a day, like consistently

Ben trying to, it’s a little, little different with college now I will say. Especially when I’m at school for the semester, I’m on break right now. But especially when I’m at school, I’ll try and get a few done on the weekend so I can post one a day, but it doesn’t always quite equal out.

How long does it, can you, so like how much can we, do you mind sharing your process a little bit? Like what happens? I mean, so I know most of yours have been like dances and stuff, which are really fun and entertaining, which lends itself well to, to the platform. And even though most of our audience is probably not going to make dances. What, what I’m, I’m trying to understand is just your creative process. And then also like how much time it takes, but so do you just, do you just hear a song and then you’re like, Oh, I should do a dance to that. Or do you come up with some other idea or like, how do you come up with the idea? What do you do to like develop it before you turn on the camera? How many times do you turn on the camera and then how do you edit it? And then is there anything you do to promote it other than when you don’t have to answer all those in one breath, but that’s like what, what, I’m what I’m interested in hearing. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of tic talkers have a different process. I don’t, I mean, I know that from talking to my friends, but for my dad and I, in particular and for me in particular, in the beginning, it was strictly, we’d see other people do a dance and we’d learn their dance and the learning process, he’s gotten a lot better. He’s gotten a lot better at learning them quicker, but sometimes we would learn for two hours and then go shoot a tech talk. And we’re both not perfectionist, but very, we want our product to be as good as it can be. And so we’ve had times where we’ve been feeling

And you were a cheerleader, right? Like when you were in high school, so you and, and yeah, for those of you that don’t know her dad, Dan Thurman, I mean, he’s Acrobat and top of being insightful and inspiring and amazing. He’s also an incredible acrobatic performer and juggler and physical specimen of man. Did you dance it around and stuff? So you guys have a little bit of athletic talent, so you’re putting that to work, but you’re saying you would prepare, you like spend two hours maybe learning the dance and then you record, how many takes are you recording?

Say our longest sometimes a few times, maybe two times we’ve gotten it within one take. But there’s definitely been times where we’ve done over a hundred takes trying to get something perfect.

Yeah. Wow. A hundred takes now. It’s only like 60 seconds, right? Yeah. The top

Is 60 seconds. Usually the dances are closer to 1520, which is helpful. But especially when it’s two people, one of us can feel like we completely killed it and the other one got off a little, so we’ll have to redo it. And then there’s the process of once you’ve done all the takes, watching all of them to decide which one you both agree on is the best.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how long does that take?

That can usually, I’d say about 30 minutes. Just to kind of watch them. Sometimes we just watch one, we both agree on it and we say, okay, we’re not going to watch anymore. We’re just going to go with this one. But that’s more in specific talking about dances because a few months ago, well maybe more than a few months ago, we kind of started to do more comedy. And sometimes the comedy videos we’ll talk about days in advance and then plan them out. And then sometimes we’ll have spur of the moment things where I’ll just say, I have something I want to tell you, can I turn on a camera while I tell you and we just get your genuine reaction. And we found that people really like to see that because it’s kind of a more authentic view of our relationship, which I think is one of the reasons why a lot of people follow us is just because of the connection we have with each other and the fun we have with each other. And so those are often a lot easier to make because there’s a lot less prep that goes into them.

And, and when you’re editing, what are you editing for? And, and are you taking, you know, like if you’re doing, let’s say a few dozen takes, are you taking clips from each different take to put it together or do you mostly just like, no, the reason you’re doing all those takes is for one and then like, what, what do you, what’s your, what’s your eye searching for,

For dances? It’s always a one-take we never edit those together. Which that’s one of the reasons why it takes so long because there’s no room for error in that

It doesn’t take you as much time to edit. So you’re doing it all in the shoots and it’s just like, once you nail it, 30 seconds, like, bam, we got it. Yeah. Okay.

But more comedy you’re talking videos, I’d say there’s a lot more room for editing editing, depending on the video, I’d say usually takes me around 30 minutes to an hour. Especially when you have to add close captions to videos, which we’ve really been trying to make that consistent, just so we’re more accessible to the deaf community, hard of hearing to add that onto our platforms, but that’ll, that’ll add on a good bit of time. So it really does stack up

Is, and, and, and are you so, so the non dance videos, like I know a lot of the videos you, you do with your dad, you do as a team, but you do a lot of them by yourself too. And, and here’s the other thing I was trying to figure out the music that you actually hear on Tik TOK. That’s not really the mute, like when you do the dance is that that music is playing. And is that what it’s recording? So that’s recording the actual music in the room. So you’re just like hitting rewind on the track.

It’s Hmm. I don’t know how to explain this. So the actual audio that plays through it, doesn’t pick up our audio when we do the dance. It just uses the audio that we’re hearing, but it doesn’t rerecord it with our room audio. It just takes the audio directly from talk.

That’s what I was trying to understand. So, so because you, you choose the song to play in the tick talk app to overlay with your dance, right? So, so when you record the dance, you’re playing the same song to dance to the music, shooting the video, but then it’s basically, you’re just stripping the like you’re, you’re effectively stripping the audio off of that when you upload the video.

So what you can do, and what we usually do is select the audio beforehand. So every time, once you select the audio and go to record inside the Tik TOK app, the audio will automatically play as you record and you can dance to it. And when you go to publish it or edit it or whatever, it uses the same audio that you were hearing during it, the one you previously selected, if that makes

Got it. So you’re actually dancing to the song that is playing out loud through the Tik tock. It’s not like you have some other speaker or something that you’re dancing to and then overlaying it. Okay. So and then you do this and I mean, there’s a lot of time going on here. I mean, this is like one, one 60 seconds. How long does it, I mean, all in for one 62nd video, how much editing time are you putting in?

I’d say 30, 45 minutes, maybe an hour with closed captions.

Okay. Now that’s just the editing, right. But the whole, like researching the dance, learning the dance shooting, the takes, then editing, you’re talking about three hours per, per one minute of video,

Depending on the style. Yeah. like I said, sometimes it’s very spur of the moment. Things are, sometimes we immediately get a dance if it’s easier and we can knock that out in 20 minutes, but there are certain times when we really want to shoot for a hard dance or go for a concept that requires a lot of editing and it just takes more time.

And are you kind of like, so you kind of built the platform on dance, but now you’ve mentioned like, you’re, you’re, you’ve gotten more into comedy. Has your audience like, have they received that pretty well? Not as well. Not at all more than dance. Cause that’s an, and, and, and are you, you know, like what’s the balance in terms of, you’re still doing dance videos, but now you’re, you’re doing these like sketch comedy kind of skits.

Yeah. I’d say they received it very well. It’s one of the same kind of, like I said, where it’s an even more genuine look at our relationship. Cause it’s us communicating with each other. It’s us joking with each other, which does play through in a lot of dances, but it’s kind of another aspect of that. Yeah. I think people really appreciate seeing another side of our relationship. And honestly, I think it has done better performance wise than a good bit of our dances. Which is interesting. Cause we used to be so specifically just dance take talks, but it’s really nice to be able to do both.

Yeah. And the way you described this, it’s basically like, you know, your, you and your dad is it’s the epicenter of this. It’s not an ancillary thing. It’s like, it’s the relationship between the two of you that kids and parents like whoever’s watching, they enjoy and it is endearing to see your relationship together. And you think that that’s part of the secret sauce?

Yeah, no for sure. I mean, what I’ve always kind of strived for with my tech talk is I want it to be genuinely me and a huge part of my life is my family. And so I think that plays through on my take talks because they mean so much to me. They are truly, I mean, my parents are some of my best friends and so it’s really easy for that to show through on my page. And I think people really appreciate that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s awesome. The idea of a teenager being best friends with their parents is, I mean, that’s like AAJ my wife. So my wife is also my business partner and that’s like, her dream is just that our kids would grow up to like want to just be our friends. So I could see why a lot of people tune in to watching, watching that. Cause it’s kind of rare really. And you know, coming back to the videos, do you feel like you’re able to predict which ones will go viral? Is there, is there certain things that you see like, Oh, I know this one’s gonna go well because of this or not really. Is it a, is it a total like toss up every time?

There are a lot of the times it is a toss up, but there have been a few instances where all even I’ll even say to my friends or my family or something where I’m, I’m feeling this one, I think people are really gonna enjoy this one. There was one where my dad and I did this trend where we put my dad in heels. I was like, no way, is this not going to do well? He’s, he’s a 50 year old man and heels. It’s amazing. And sometimes, sometimes we just get feelings or a lot of the times it’s things we’re just really proud of that we put a lot of work into and that we think other people are going to enjoy as much as us. And usually I’d say that’s correct instinct.

So it’s just, it’s not really a formula as much as it’s like an intuition. Yeah, I’d say so. Okay. And, and are you at this point, it seems like the way that you described this, it’s, it’s a lot of entertainment, you know, it’s basically, you’ve got dance and now you’ve got some comedy and it’s, you know, a little bit of this kind of like showing your relationship with your dad. Do you, do you kind of plan on using it or do you, do you intentionally, like, are you deliberate about kind of saying, yeah, this is, you know, we’re putting out content that is really for entertainment, not so much for like education or encouragement or, you know, some other type of content, but you know, that’s, is that how you see yourself as basically like an entertainer or how do you, how do you see yourself in your product, as you say, like your content,

I’d say as much as, as much as it is entertainment, it is also become somewhat of a business. For me in particular over the past, I’d say about six months, I signed with some management and we’ve been working together where it really has become a business. I make my living off of it. Which was really cool. But I’d say overall, what I’ve come to know about the tick talk app is it can be very full of negativity. I’ve seen a lot of my friends struggle with that. I’ve struggled with that. And with the platform I’ve been given, like I said, I didn’t really start out on Tik, talk with the intention to become an influencer. I wanted to have fun. And over the time kind of realize what I’ve been given and with the negativity on Tik TOK, my goal has been to just make something that’s going to make someone smile. If there’s something negative on their page and they can scroll. And it’s one of my videos. I want it to have a positive impact. And so entertainment. Yes. Joy. Yes. That’s all stuff that I aim to accomplish with this, but it is also at the end of the day, a bit of a business.

Yeah. So can you tell me about the business part of it? Like when did that w at what, how many, like followers did you have before you started monetizing and then how are you monetizing? Like what actually what’s the vehicle that money actually shows up? Cause this is like, like you’re saying here, it’s like three hours of time for a one-minute video. It’s not like you’re just slapping together or something and throwing it up there and it’s going viral. Like this is a job.

Yeah, no, absolutely. It was, I, I had just hit a million followers. I’m pretty sure. Or I might’ve, I think it was a few days right before I hit a million followers. I had previously worked with Hollister as part of their high school media team. And I had some connections there that translated to United talent agency and they reached out, we had a meeting with them and we started working with them. And I’d say that was the game changer in this shifting from something fun. I do to a business, to my source of income, to, it was one of those things where I’d been putting in the hours beforehand. And this was kind of the turning point where I began making money off of it. And with that essentially, I’d say the main source of income is collaborations with brands, which my team will bring to me, we’ll discuss it. We’ll either take it or leave it. And then from there, we’ll go off working with the brand to create a monetized product.

And, and so what does that mean exactly? Is this like, does that mean we’re going to do a product placement in a video somewhere and you guys are going to dance while that people are seeing that product, or is it more involved in

The, I’d say it ranges for sure. Depending on what the brand wants. A lot of the times I just, I just did a deal with Amazon where I had a call with Amazon discussing what they wanted to promote being their Amazon prime students. Since I am a college student who that’s eligible to and we discuss how that would fit in authentically with my brand and in a way that it will be well received by my followers. And that’s a huge part of being successful when working with brands is it can’t seem too forced or like a blatant ad. And from there, we came upon a conclusion where I was going to order some things as a prime student, create little presence for some of my friends who were going through finals and give them to them. And through the video that ended up being the ad, it was following me, ordering them through Amazon prime, me, building them and me giving them. So while it was an ad, there was still a little bit of a storyline and something positive that came out of it. And we decided that that would resonate well for my audience. So it’s what we went forward with.

And did it, did the video perform well relative to other videos?

It did. Yeah. that one actually did pretty well. I think it has 130,000 likes which I consider good for an ad. But it was very it fit in very well with my brands and with my content. And I think that’s one of the reasons why it said well. Yeah.

Yeah. And I guess when you, when you’re making that decision to going, okay, what, how do I make this fit with my audience? Is that, is that a gut instinct or, or is there something specific like, like when you say fit in with my brand, what do you think of as your brand? Like, so, so when these other companies are bringing opportunities to you, what, what do you think of as your brand when you’re trying to like assimilate the two together?

Yeah, for sure. I think it directly goes back to who I am and kind of, I mean, when I think about my profile, my brand, I don’t cuss on the internet. I don’t do any very sexual things. I try and keep it very wholesome and family content. As well as with my personal things, like who I am as a person, I had a butcher shop, reach out to me for an ad. I’m a vegetarian didn’t quite make sense. And so it’s just things like that, where if I were to promote a butcher shop, my followers would be a little confused and it would look very much like I was just doing it for a check, but when you can do it for things that actually fit with who you are as an individual, if it comes off as a lot more organic, like I use Amazon prime, it worked out

Right. And then do you, when you have this is so interesting to me, I just think this is so cool. I mean, and you know, we have we have at least a handful of our clients who make real substantial income from Facebook watch. And I mean, just for you listening, you know, this can be tens of thousands of dollars a month in income that people are making. I mean, it can be Randy, I was, I mean, what, what are, what are some of the numbers don’t, you don’t have to share your numbers, but just like, since you’re in the community, like if somebody is listening, going, gosh, like maybe I should spend more time putting into editing my videos. Like realistically, what are some of the numbers that you hear from like other influencers and different brand deals that somebody could realistically expect after, you know, if they are able to build their profile over time? Like, what are these arrangements look like?

Yeah. I’d say they definitely vary a good bit because there’s certain partnerships, collaborations that are one video and done. And then there’s other that have posting commitments consistently throughout a six month contract, a year long contract. One in particular I can think of. I have a friend who does a deal with bang energy drinks. I’m not exactly sure what his deal looks like. I think it’s one a week. I’m not entirely sure, but I know he’s estimated to make six figures within a year, which is crazy as an 18, 19 year old. Absolutely crazy from one sponsorship from individuals I’ve heard of people making between two to, I think this was a much bigger influencer than myself, but somebody made like $80,000 off of one video. Absolutely. Mind blowing.

Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s pretty wild. I mean like on YouTube. So for those of you that are members, right? So we teach in phase three in lesson one, we are events called high traffic strategies. And we talk about paid traffic and YouTube specifically, you know, there, which as I understand is also how Facebook watch works is they’re paying you for the length of time that people are watching, but also who they are, who is watching matters a great deal, because you’re getting paid per based on the performance of the video. And so you know, like statistically, the English speaking audience is going to pay the content creator much higher than a non-English speaking audience. And then it’s like, you know, there’s certain demographics like women, as an example, if you have women viewers, typically those pay higher than male audiences cause they’re buyers, but that is very different than what you’re describing, which is you’re not getting paid based on the performance of the video.

You’re getting paid a flat fee, regardless of how well the video performs by a specific brand for a specific project. Which I guess is for everybody, that’s the, I guess the difference between a brand deal, which is what you’re talking about. Somebody saying, I will pay you a flat fee to make this video and post it versus getting paid based on the performance of your videos from the platform itself like Facebook or YouTube or in this case, Tik TOK. So are you monetizing your channel as well from Tik TOK? Like, are you also receiving like, is that that’s a, that’s the other stream of income here, right?

Yeah. So that’s actually fairly new. I’d say maybe it was may when creator fund became a thing, because before, if you were a creator on Tik talk, you made no money just based off of your channel and its performance. Your only source of income was work with outside brands. And that could be a performance-based income based on certain videos or a flat fee. But none of it was coming from Tech-Talk like YouTube monetization. It was completely different, but a little while ago, the Tik TOK creator fund was announced. And that is essentially a payment each day. You can take it out after 30 days after the end of a month, you can receive your earnings from that month. And it’s a payment based on views. So that was a fairly, fairly new change to Tech-Talk where now it can be monetized that way. And I think the only qualifications you need is 10,000 followers. And roughly, I think it was 50,000 views within the past year or something that may be completely wrong, but you, you can find it on the internet, but it’s not. That sounds about right.

Cause I think that’s what you’d like. Although actually, no, I think with YouTube, I think you need, maybe it is 10,000. I think it’s a hundred thousand. I think you need a hundred thousand subscribers before you can monetize from YouTube on YouTube, but these brand deals like you can get, you don’t have to have any there’s no, there’s, you just have to prove to a brand that you can reach their audience and that, you know, you’ll, you’ll help create positive brand awareness. Now you said you so immediately you hired an agency. Like you engage with an agency as soon as this started happening to help negotiate all this. So you don’t really deal with all that stuff directly. Right now.

I, I used to a little bit, I was kind of terrible at it though. People would reach out to me and say, you know, can you use my song in a video? How much will you charge? And I was like, it’s 20 bucks too much. Like I really didn’t understand the market at all. So I’m so thankful for my team. They’re absolutely amazing. But yeah, I don’t handle any of the negotiations now.

Huh. So, so cool. So interesting. Just two, two last little, two last little questions here. Maggie, this has been so, so informative and I think just helping people understand, you know, just the dynamics of how this platform works, what’s going on. It’s obviously a big mover in the, in the market. Do you, are you repurposing your content in other locations and how has that performed or not performed?

I personally try and keep it a little bit different on each platform. So I’m on Tech-Talk Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube. I don’t really repurpose content. I’d say I know a lot of people, a lot of tech talkers in particular, Instagram has a new feature called reels where a lot of people post their tech talks for me. I just never really got into that. I guess I, I just use each platform differently. So it doesn’t always make sense for my content to transfer, but again, I strive for my brand to be consistent on each platform. So I don’t really repurpose, but I’ve seen a lot of creative friends be successful in that.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That’s interesting to hear different different philosophies there. And then here’s my last little question for you is certainly you’re dealing with your volume. You’re dealing with some number of haters and trolls and the negative comments. And we, we know that no matter what type of content you’re putting out there, that’s going to show up and I have to think even though your videos are awesome and hilarious and entertaining, I have to think that you’re getting, you know, some number of hateful comments. So how do you handle those? And, and what’s like, what’s been your, what’s been your outlook on dealing with those?

Absolutely. I think there was definitely a learning curve to it. I think I used to think, take things a lot more personally than I do now, because honestly though, at the beginning I didn’t receive hate for a good long time. My dad and I used to joke that our pages were just an enigma because people weren’t mean to us for a long, long time. But as we both got bigger on the app, we did receive more negative comments. And honestly, I kind of, every time I received that, I really sounds so like textbook, but I kind of have to ask myself a few questions when receiving the negativity. I have to think in my mind, did I do something wrong? Is there a reason I’m getting negativity? Do I need to change something? Or is, are these people just not my demographic? Are we not people who would get along in real life or are we just different?

You know what I mean? Like you’re not going to get along with everyone you meet and you meet a lot more people on tech talk than you do in everyday life. It’s okay. Not for everyone. It’s okay for everyone not to like you. And also just realizing that people are hurting everywhere. And it’s so easy to take that out on someone who you don’t really even understand. I think a big problem and why there’s so much hate on social media is that people don’t necessarily think of influencers as real people. To an extent there, someone they see on their screen. That’s why when I meet people, a lot of the times they’ll say things like, Oh, you’re so much, you’re so much different when I’m really kind of exactly the same. It’s just me in person. Like I’m a real person. People always think I’m taller than I am.

That’s kind of off topic, but it’s just like something where people don’t know you entirely. And so when you’re less of an actual person to them, it’s a lot easier for them to be mean to you. And honestly, at the end of the day, my rule that I’ve kind of told my family is at the end of the day, if I’m proud of the content, then I’m going to post it. I’m going to leave it up. If it doesn’t perform well, but I’m proud of it. I’m going to leave it up. And if people don’t like it, but I’m proud of it. And I think it’s a reflection of who I am and I’m going to leave it up. And I think that’s just something I’ve had to learn by is you can’t judge things based off of numbers because the algorithm is always going to change certain people aren’t going to like it. And you really have to kind of be your own moral compass on things.

I love it. Maggie Thurman is who you’re listening to. Maggie. Where should people go? I mean, obviously Maggie Thurman on Tik TOK is a one place they can find you. Is there anywhere else that you would direct people if they want to connect with you? Maggie

Thurman on Instagram, Snapchat and YouTube.

Nice. Well, thank you so much for this Maggie. Thanks for just, you know, your transparency here and sharing what this, how this, how all stuff works and for your encouragement and your entertainment and making the world a happier, more joyful place. Especially in a a year that’s been pretty dark for a lot of people. It’s great to know that there’s positive content out there that is spreading and that

It’s given you resources to, to make a bigger impact in the world. So we wish you the very best my friend. Thank you so much. [inaudible].

Ep 133: YouTube Secrets Tips and Strategies with Sean Cannell | Recap Episode

Hey, welcome to the influential personal brand podcast. Recap edition, breaking down Sean Cannell. Sorry, Cannell. I keep saying it wrong kennel like YouTube channel. Oh, that is why I’m struggling with that because we have canals. I was like, why do I struggle with this? But anyways, it’s Sean Cannell like YouTube channel, which is the way to remember it,uwhich is smart and,ureally, really good. I mean, I just, I have really grown. I, I follow Sean closely now and he’s like the go-to guy on YouTube these days.

Rory was like, if you want to know YouTube, you have to listen to this

Because it’s, we’ve said in several of our recaps that like YouTube is

Literally every single guest has something unique in huh, to say about YouTube. And this was no different. I love it. And I love too that YouTube is making such a comeback in terms of conversations that people are happening. Cause I feel like for a long time it kind of fell off the wagon and it was all about Instagram and a tech talk and Facebook and you know, all the things. And can, I didn’t hear about personal brands on YouTube for a while, but some of the biggest personal brands we know have huge, massive followings and huge monetization plans using YouTube.

Yeah. And I think that’s part of the, part of the, part of the thing about YouTube is it’s, it’s not as like flashy and instant. And so that’s why it was like super exciting. And then it kind of went away and now people are realizing it’s got massive, long-term staying power. Like this is the place to be. And I think the first big takeaway was that Sean said, look you a skill you have to learn as you have to become a master at holding attention. And Gary V talks about this all the time that what he’s really doing is he’s day-trading attention. It’s, it’s, it’s not so much about the platform or about the content or anything. It’s about understanding your audience and how do you tap? How do these hand gestures, how do you captivate them? How do you hold them? How do you pull them in? And like, and, and, and, and, and have them, this is something that you gotta do. If you’re going to build, if you’re going to build a brand, you got to build your,

Yeah. I love that. And I think just even asking yourself, what am I doing to hold people’s attention? And this is something that we tell people all the time in our curriculums world-class presentation craft is watch yourself. I actually go back and watch yourself. Are you engaging? Are you inviting? Do you even want to watch yourself? Right. I think those are really good things that we forget to do. And you know, something we talk about, even with us, it’s when was the last time that we went back and listened to one of our own podcast recaps or podcast interviews, listening to our cadence and our speech and our hands gastros and all the things. But I think is really important. If you’re really trying to do this and really trying to build up this platform is are you watching yourself and becoming in tune with what is engaging and what holds people attention?

Because so much of it is people can’t sit and watch I talking head for an hour. It’s really hard. Just like you wouldn’t want to watch a PowerPoint with a voiceover for six hours. At some point, you’re going to be like, Oh my gosh, that’s too much for my eyes to take in. So what are you doing to vary it up and to capture and grab someone’s attention and then hold it. So, step one, I would just encourage you if you’ve got any sort of visual format or an audio format for that matter, go back and watch yourself and pay attention to those things. And when we actually talk about watching yourself four different ways,

This is from ed Tate. So this was, we learned this from ed Tate, 1999 world champion of public speaking. Okay. Go ahead and share the four ways to watch,

Just watch it normally. Right. I mean, I think I’m gonna get out of this watch it on fast forward. You know, that’s still a thing that from the BCR days but one of the reasons is that you’ll catch your little what do you call them? Your nervous ticks idiosyncrasies. It’s like do you have like a, you know, do you do this all the time? Like we had this friend one time that did this all the time and when you watched it on video, it looks like she was just filling herself up all the time. Do you remember this?

I do never noticed

It until it was on fast forward. Right. And then watch it on mute and then watch it not looking at it. So you’re just listening to it. Those are the four different ways, but I’m telling you you’re, it will be amazing to you to see what are all of the weird things that you catch just by watching yourself or listening to yourself, a stutter or Maybe you say, ah a lot

Of the little things

Like as mine, for sure. But I just think that’s really amazing to pay attention to because your job is to keep people engaged. So can you even keep yourself engaged? Step one?

Yeah. And part of that is just reducing, reduce, reduce, reduce, which was a big theme of what Sean talked about. I think of where Mark Twain said that brevity is the essence of wisdom. One of my coaches and mentors, David Brooks said he was the 1990 world champion of public speaking. He said, tell the audience every single word they need to know and not a word more. And that’s such great advice here. And that’s a part I think of holding attention, which was to me a great reminder of just edit, edit, edit, reduce, reduce, reduce. And then the last big takeaway for me was interesting because Sean is so technical and the stuff he teaches, he had this thing that he said like towards the end, that was like, whoa…

Oh, this is really, this is really profound. Yeah.

Yeah. So it was, and it was like, it was more than emotional. It was almost spiritual. What he said. He said, use your season of obscurity to prepare you for your season of popularity. Use your season of obscurity to prepare you for your season of popularity. That it’s like, look, you’re building the skills, the character, the talent, the systems, the processes in this, in this season that not that many people know about you because you’re being prepared for the person that the world one day need you to be, that you’re being, you’re being shaped and molded and created to be this extraordinary thing. And you’re just, that’s what’s happening. Like you’re, you’re it’s happening right now. Even though you think, Oh no, one’s watching my videos. No, one’s engaging. It’s now you’re, you’re actually being shaped. You’re being built. Yeah.

I love that. And I, you know, when I, when I read that Roy had highlighted this little sentence that made me think about one of my favorite pastors right now is this guy and I, Michael Todd. So total shout out to transformation church and Michael Todd relationship goals is the book. So shout out to that too, but I think it’s very similar to something he talks a lot about, which is the seasons of your life from being single, to being married. And there’s the season of being single that nobody wants to be in, but that is the season that you are being prepared for the life partner that you will one day have. And this, the season of just figuring out who you are and what you want and your connectedness to in our case, God. But then it’s like, people want to rush past that.

They don’t want to be single. They don’t want to admit that they’re single. They always are dating. And it’s like, if you’re always with someone else, then you never have time to find out who you are. And I think that’s very similar to a little bit of what Sean was saying is the season of obscurity is your season of just you at your time alone, it’s your time to set a solid foundation so that if you do get hit with tons of popularity, you’re, you’re grounded and founded in who you are and what you believe in. And it’s just a setting, a very solid foundation or tremendous growth. So very similar to that. And also just love to find any way to talk about Michael.

That’s a good word, Vaden preach it. That’s a good, that is good. That is strong. That is strong. And that’s why we’re here. We hope to keep inspiring you and keep informing you with our guests and our recap. So thanks for being here, come back next time. And we will see then on the influential personal brand.

Ep 132: YouTube Secrets Tips and Strategies with Sean Cannell

Hey, Brand Builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for tuning in to listen to this interview. We are so excited to bring you this information and wanted to let you know that, Hey, there’s no sales pitch coming. From anything that we do with this is all our value add to you and the community. However, if you are somebody who is looking for specific strategies on how to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and we offer a free call to everyone that’s interested in getting to know us and is willing to give us a chance to get to know them and share a little bit about what we do. So if you’re interested in taking us up on a free strategy call, you can do that at brand builders, group.com/summit call brand builders, group.com/summit. Call, hope to talk to you soon on with the show.

So recently, one of my best keynote clients asked me the question. They said, who do you know, that does YouTube and video? And I said, easy question, easy answer, Sean. Is that so you’re, and that’s who you’re about to meet. Sean Cannell is one of his, he’s a best-selling author as well, but man, he is YouTube. He is all things video. He is an international speaker. He’s built seven figure business. His videos have been viewed over a hundred million times, which I think is incredible. His YouTube channels have over 1 million subscribers, Forbes listed him as one of the 20 must watched YouTube channels that will change your business. And him and his team. I mean, they produce some of the best content ever, and they’re just on this mission to help 10,000 people, you know, do what they love. And so he gives amazing advice and just had a baby with his wife, Sonia, which is exciting. And brother, thanks for carving out some time for us.

Yeah. Rory, I’m pumped to be here. Thanks for that introduction. Yeah, I guess the other thing was you and I shared the stage also at Shaleen Johnson’s event. That was the first time that I was introduced to you. And then again at social media marketing world, just shortly thereafter. And now, and now, you know, this other client that we won’t be there at the same time, but I hope hopefully they’ll book you. And I have to say, man, the more that we’ve done, these interviews, I have just become so convicted on YouTube and there I have missed the boat, my entire career. I don’t know how, but I have somehow just completely missed what it is and, you know, so can you just kind of talk about like, obviously everyone listened to his personal brands, how do you view YouTube in the landscape of everything going on with a personal brand? Like all the other social, you know, social media outlets, website blog, like podcasting, how do you think of YouTube?

Yeah. you know, I think of course from my perspective, but I’ll back it up. I mean, I think YouTube is, is the most important place to build your personal brand. It’s the number one video site in the world by far, far and away, you know, Amazon bought Amazontube.com and the URL and people thought, okay, what are they going to do? And even if they do something, they don’t have the content library. Of course there’s Twitch and that’s kind of gaming and live streaming there’s other things. But even if a competitor was to start, it’s going to be so difficult for them to build the backlog of YouTube, let alone the technological infrastructure of distribution to mobile around the world, over 2 billion, monthly active users, the best feature set and it’s free. So I think it’s irresponsible for any serious personal brand, serious online entrepreneur, business owner, anybody that wants to share their thoughts, their wisdom, their message with the world to not be on YouTube.

I am empathetic because I understand that what with YouTube, it’s kind of like maybe the hurdle of content creation podcast, you know, audio it’s its own challenge for sure. But it’s, it’s a little bit simpler. I think some of the other social media platforms also give you more of kind of that quicker dopamine hit you. They’re able to like post on Instagram today, or even write an article on LinkedIn or a medium post. And you get it done and you didn’t have to like pull out your suit jacket, take a shower, do your hair that day, set your mic up, plan the content, figure out how you’re going to edit it. I think there’s a level of that complexity, but that keeps a lot of people if you will, out of the game that are missing out on the opportunity that if you can create a simple system to create what we would encourage one significant upload per week on YouTube it can have massive dividends.

And I think the other thing about YouTube is it doesn’t give you as much immediate gratification like, like a Tik TOK does right now, or even some of the other platforms. You get a comment, you get a, like you upload a YouTube video, you got zero views. You know, a week later you got 10 views, but you’re like, well, that’s how many my IETV got, but that was a lot easier to create. And the YouTube video took more energy. But the thing with YouTube is it’s like a fine wine. It gets better with age. It’s a content library. It’s not a content feed. You build up your thought leadership there, a body of work there. And over time you can create so much passive momentum, passive traffic. And I think the last example of that I think is important to note is there’s a reason why some of the most influential online entrepreneurs and personal brands really invest a lot in YouTube, whether it’s a Brendon Burchard, a grant Cardone, Gary Vaynerchuk Billy Jean whether it’s just you know, a Marie Forleo whether it’s of course, a lot of the YouTube in foot, Jay Shetty, you think about these different people Lewis’ house.

Why are they investing also in YouTube, even if they’re doing a podcast as well or other things, because YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world. There are so many people, there it is. It’s the town square of online video. And we are allowed to have our own shows all land the plane with this final analogy. What, what would it have been worth to buy? I looked it up a piece of land in Manhattan in New York. You can get a little lot, that’s an empty lot, so you could build on it. I looked it up just the other day. You know, real estate prices are going up. Maybe they’re going down, depends on the pandemic. But it was only 17 million, $900,000 to get that piece of real estate. And actually you can, we can connect later cause I got my license.

So I’m happy to flip that to you if you want. I wish. And, and so what, but what would that piece of real estate have costed 10 years ago? 20 years ago, especially 50 years ago. Nobody knows a future, but YouTube is such a dominant platform of where online video happens, where so much education and entertainment is consumed, where so many people are planting their flag. I think a lot of people are going to regret, not investing in YouTube even now and here. And we’re actually putting, we put an offer on a house today. Then the Vegas is a boom and bust market. We just need someplace to live. We didn’t really want to buy, but gotta live somewhere. And like, we don’t really want it. So we’re timing some things. Here’s the deal. It’s just continued to go up and up and up and up. And I looked at I’m like, it’s going to probably drop no, it keeps going up. And so I would rather get in today. It’s not too late to get into YouTube. I’d rather get in today because even if it dips a little, like if you play it out, it is where you want to really establish your voice as a personal brand in mind.

So the, the concept of getting in today. So just to talk about that, cause it’s, I think it’s a little bit overwhelming when you see exactly what you said, where it’s like, you don’t get the immediate gratification. I’m rebuilding my YouTube channel. You know, it’s taken a year to get to like 400 subscribers. I mean, it’s just like, or six, six months, it’s been like six months we’ve been doing it. And it’s just like, Oh my gosh, I’m just getting killed. Like w you know, putting energy into it. How do you get over that? How do you get over that mental block of like, I’m too late to the game? You know, it’s, it’s not worth it. I should be spending my time somewhere else. Cause I can get more traffic, you know, quicker, anything around how you think about that? Is it just what you’re saying? It’s just that long.

No, I think it’s two things. I think it’s mindset and systems and we’ll go systems first. I think the system is to just create a simple system to be consistent on YouTube. Even if you start really simple, let ask you will this episode go on YouTube? Yeah, it will. Yeah. Yeah. So you’ve already you’re this is what this is not, I mean, I’m not, I don’t want to belittle the process, but this is not that challenging. Like we’re on zoom right now. You know what I mean? Like we’re recording this interview. So, so I only have 400 subscribers. Yeah. But like also the show format, you’re doing a video podcast and that’s 400 subscribers. It’s like, it’s, if you can get this systematized and especially for those that are scaling out with a team, a virtual assistant, you just get a simple workflow going, by the way, I recommend everybody listening.

Here’s the model, a weekly video podcast. And if you are podcasting, especially during the pandemic, mostly just like this over zoom or something like stream yard or something else, like just flip the webcam on and have your guests flip the webcam on as well. That’s like the minimum viable product I think to get started with YouTube. Then you’re able to promise a weekly show. You’re able to leverage YouTube for the SEO properties. And if Amazon, if Apple podcast and Spotify and Google play is giving you more love, that’s just bonus on YouTube. And that becomes a foundational thing to get the algorithm seasoned. And then here’s your opportunity. Two things can happen if you were to layer the next strategy on top of that, the next strategy would be, well, this is 30 minutes. This is 45 minutes is you do a Joe Rogan. Does you cut out the three minutes or the five minutes?

That has more of a chance when we really touch on that, that hot button topic, that poll cause that’s the kind of stuff that gets clicked on. That’s why JRE clips, the Joe Rogan clips channel all the video podcasters that are smart, do this. They cut out the clips to go viral, to get awareness, to get more love. Because a lot of people that don’t know you yet, aren’t going to click on longer form content like this. And so that’s one way to evolve. And then the next one is not even necessarily weekly, but when you have the bandwidth, when you invest the time you study some of my work and you then actually create native YouTube videos, shorter that are meant to like pull or push all of YouTube buttons to blow up your awareness. So then cause you’re always one video away from changing your whole life in business with YouTube, you put out the right video at the right time with the right title, with the right thumbnail, with the right.

And again, maybe you don’t keep following up with that, but then they go, Oh, at least Roy has got a weekly show. So all of a sudden you go from four to 400 to 4,000 because of consistency. And because of having some smart systems because of potentially planning team and energy around when it is, you’re going to evolve into that. But in the meantime, Hey, in a year it’s 800 in another year at 1600 and YouTube does grow like a snowball, even if it is slow and steady, potentially with minimal effort, just with the videos you’re uploading here. So that’s systems, the mindset is simply that is really looking at it for the long haul, recognizing that you gotta level up with kind of the copywriting, the headline really good recommended book, Brendan Kane hook point. How do you write hooks? How do you grab people’s attention in a three-second world?

Those skill sets matter so much on YouTube, but you don’t want to get overwhelmed again. Even if you put out Sean Cannell was, you know, you’re already amazing at that, but if you just guessed, like it’s not the best title in the world, but you show up every week and keep leveling up. Then a year and a half from now, everything changes. And you’ve got a backlog and consistency for people that are like, man, now I want to go deep with this guy. Cause there was a short form star smart content that eventually kind of went viral. And in your case, my case as well, virals 10 K views, you know, it’s 25 K it’s a hundred K when you’re normally only getting 50 to a hundred and that’s so much more common when you just stick with it. And you know, I just got to pull this one on you. Then the mindset side is he got to take the stairs stairs on YouTube because there’s that moment when, when putting in the work pays off. And so that’s what I’d recommend.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I love the, I love the idea of, of your one video away from changing your life. I mean, my Ted talk is an example of that, right? It’s like, even though it’s not on my channel, I wish it was, but it’s like 4 million views later. I don’t do any, I don’t have to do any other marketing for speaking. It’s like people just email it. Hey, will you come do your Ted talk? People hire me to do a 25 minute version of the 18 minute Ted talk that’s available for free. But it’s, I mean, so I love that. And the, the other thing that this is part of why I’ve bought into YouTube finally, is what you were talking about, about how it gets better, like a fine wine, all the other social platforms. It’s like the, the longer it’s been around, the less valuable the content is YouTube is the opposite.

Just like Google, because they’re the same. So, you know, you mentioned the SEO part of the video, the, are there some basic things like you’re saying, okay, yeah. Just throw up some video content. That’s basically what we’ve been doing. We’re just now starting to you know, so we put these on brand builders channel and then I do a weekly video blog on Rory vaden.com, which is the, you know, we’re just starting to like put more into that or there’s some basic things because of the relationship between Google and YouTube and how SEO works that we need to know in terms of like, don’t, don’t miss this, right? Like if you’re not gonna take an hour to optimize every video, but if there’s two things you’re going to do when you post a video, my gosh, like don’t forget to do this on YouTube specifically. That makes it, you know, more find-able absolutely.

So there’s going to be two priorities, especially going into this next year that are critical for winning on YouTube. I’m going to share the lesser priority first, but it should be a given. It’s kind of like you, you like shouldn’t even have to mention the fundamentals because we should all assume you need to do the fundamentals, but it’s not the, the needle mover, but let’s address those first YouTube like Google needs to be optimized, like a great blog post. Your title should be attention grabbing and keyword rich still. And a keyword is what search term are you going after? You know what pain point or you’re solving? We teach ASQ answer specific questions. Just answer a specific question. And when I say answer specific questions, sometimes people think like a question, like what is personal branding? Well, that one’s probably been been touched on.

Here’s one of my favorite strategies. It’d be like how to upload a LinkedIn profile. That was a deep strategy, by the way, because when you answer like something super specific like that, if someone’s on LinkedIn, they want to build a personal brand. Maybe that question is not even answered. Well, the app was just updated. All of a sudden, those are the types of videos that have a quarter million views that are really practical and utility. And then you like it. And you’re like, and by the way, you know, I also help people with, with building their personal brands. And that’s why your other may be more personal development, softer topics actually get discovered because you get noticed cause you teach people how to install a WordPress plugin. So there’s something about answering specific questions and priority number two. Yes. The title, yes. The description should be filled out.

Like with enough words, like a good blog, post keywords, the tags YouTube has let us know these things carry less weight, but that is what’s called metadata. And it’s important. You just don’t want to cut corners there, especially when you’re just starting your YouTube channel. Youtube really doesn’t know what your video is about. So you’re giving it metadata. And that means you’ve architected the content to be actually tackling something very specific. And then of course the thumbnail, because that’s, what’s going to be what people click on or not. And so it’s like title thumbnail, tags description. And then the topic itself, that’s really the needle mover because if you’re not talking about the right things at the right time, especially, let’s say you were to talk about news, like there’s, this is what we would call trend surfing. It’s a good strategy. And that would be like related to personal branding.

You put, you extrapolate some principles out of pop culture and you commentate on somebody. They don’t know you, but they know something that’s happening in pop culture collection. We talked about how we didn’t do it, but with like we’d recognized, we totally could have personal branding mistakes from it and whatnot. And it brings awareness. So that’s actually a topic thing. That’s actually the content strategy, but all of that, I would cluster under important, but the lesser priority, the way to optimize your content going into this next year is the content itself. And what I mean is here’s how YouTube ranks videos now AVD and CTR, Oh, say those in reverse CTR click through rate. And then the second one’s average view duration. So almost all the other stuff is so much lesser important than does someone click on it. And what would determine if someone clicks on it?

Well, a great title that kind of like opens up a loop and curiosity, a thumbnail that’s also great and gets attention, but the topics almost more important because you might see it. You’re like that’s the best thumbnail I’ve ever seen. Well, I’ve never seen such a what Mark Twain couldn’t have written. And as PO Shakespeare, couldn’t have written a title as good as this. What does it matter if they’re not actually interested in the content? So your choice of topic, knowing and understanding your audience’s problems and ambitions their mindset, what keeps them up at night? What would actually get them to stop scrolling? Because that’s what they want to learn about. That’s what they want to hear about what gets you to click. You actually have to get the click, but getting the click. It’s not enough. They call it click bait. Wow, you got the click, but you trick me.

I don’t want to watch. So AVD average view duration, AKA watch time, right? Another way of putting it is just how long do people spend on the video? So then once you start the video, it’s actually the architecture of the content. So I would challenge you. I watched some of your stuff, this probably maybe a long time ago. Maybe you still need to do this in this next year. Quality over quantity matters. And it’s quick to be able to set your phone up and maybe just record real time for seven, five to seven minutes or 13 minutes on a topic. People who know you will endure that, but there’s so many people that are just putting more effort into at least editing out the breaks at any hour, ums, structuring their content, putting something powerful in the beginning. I’m not saying it needs fancy production value, but you’ve really optimize that content to hold viewer attention.

You’re really thinking about creating open loops, if possible, to have people go. You’re even more. So if you teach and you can have visuals, even if you do like kind of a webinar style and you share some things, you bring people from point a, B, C, D in the video. If you can hit an average view duration of eight minutes and a click through rate of over 10%, which your YouTube analytics will show you, YouTube will keep showing your video to more and more and more and more and more audiences through suggested 10% or higher 10 20, 30. And it’s crazy over eight minutes because if YouTube sees, so if you a couple of metrics and these are all taken with a grain of salt, but some good targets, a good target length of a video is 15 minutes. A good chance of a great 15 minute video will have an average view duration of about half that around eight minutes.

And if the topic has a wide enough reach that people click through it at 10%, meaning when YouTube shows and recommends it and impression someone clicks through and then stays on it at that percentage, then that’s what could potentially spread throughout the algorithm. And if you don’t hit those numbers, but you raise those numbers, people dwell and watch your videos longer. And then people are clicking through on your videos. More those priority. Number two, title, topic, covering a trend. All of that is very important. It’s like just the fundamentals, but those are the levers, which how do you optimize those? The content itself it’s taken some time practically editing. Like I don’t care if you shoot your video on your phone, get it to an editor that can actually make it more interesting, more poppy and like, think about, about faster, because everyone’s rushed. You know, everyone wants it.

It makes me think sometimes we’ll do something like this. That’s, you know, 30 minutes. But a lot of times we bond YouTube. If you took you 10 minutes to record the video on your phone, chances are a good editor could make that five and a half. And the difference between that 10 minute, just like free flowing train of thought versus just edited down is everything on YouTube. You know, this isn’t unlike English and there’s the English teacher story who had the class write a paper on a topic. And they had them write a six page paper. So he had to write a six page paper. And they were like, all right. So just choose a topic, six page paper, then they turn it in and then you send it all in. And then he handed it back to him and he said, look, I want you to cut this in half. And they were like, what?

You want us to cut 50%

Of this paper? Then he said, yeah, I want you to cut it in half because I want it to be stronger, more punchy, better. And they’re like, that’s insane. There’s no way. Okay, fine. So then they go to work and the class goes back to work, cuts their six page papers into three page papers. Then they turn them all in and then the teacher goes awesome. Great job. Hey, before actually we finished this out. I’m going to hand these back to you. I want you to cut these in half again.

What a page and a half are you kidding? Like from six to eight,

This is insane. He said, I want you to do it. And so then they cut it all the way down to a page and a half. Well, how strong was that content? By the time it got down to a page and a half, it’s what probably any great journalists would learn when they have to fit a complex thoughts into just an article in the New York times. So how can you make your content half short and twice strong? That’s sort of the idea of optimizing the content, grabbing attention, creating a story that has tension, a climax conflict resolution and holds attention. If you, I’m not saying that’s easy, but that’s like the key of YouTube right now. And to alleviate some pressure, just upload your weekly video podcast. And when you want to take a shot at maybe editing something down more or apply some of that editing to the clips channel, you go, man, during that conversation, we hit a point that’s strong that’s that’s title that one point, let’s settle that.

And let’s make this three minute clip, five minute clip, seven minute clip that just really directly delivers that promise. Let’s do a good thumbnail. And for example, Joe Rogan does it all the time. Like of course celebrity meets topic, but like Elon Musk shares opinion on Corona virus. And you know, you’re like what? And you see it. And of course you just clicked through all they’re doing is sitting there and talking, but it’s delivering like one idea. One question, one, answer, one video on sort of that you got to click on it. You want to think about how you can do that for your own content.

So if you’re saying a target length of 15 minutes and you’re trying to like cut it in half, does that mean you’re recording like a 25 minute and then trying to edit it down to 15? I mean, that’s interesting to hear you say 15 minutes and that’s low that’s long time. But you’re saying that that kind of, I mean, I don’t know if you would classify that as longer form content, but you know, like normally I am for five to seven and they end up being more like eight or 10, which then if we chopped it down, it would be like five or six. But you’re saying try that, that it’s good to have videos up there that are longer than 15 minutes because the, the AVD is higher.

The videos should be as long as they need to be, but as short as possible. So if you’re your eight should be fours and your thirties should be fifteens. And so, so I only put that out there because the average iteration of a 15 minute video, if it’s great will probably be eight minutes and YouTube loves videos that cross that eight minute threshold, but there’s no reason to try to inflate your content. Three’s great fours. Great. If you look at think media right now, our main channel, we spend a lot of time around six minutes, seven, but sometimes the content goes to 12 or 13 and it’s usually for a reason, doesn’t mean it holds attention. But if we’re we’re teaching somebody how to use a particular camera and walking them through all the settings, well, it takes 13 minutes to do that. My thought is, if you take 26 minutes to do that, when it could have been 13 a competitor, let’s say teaching on the same camera when you hold that viewer attention that YouTube is going to love you more.

Now, if both are pretty good and that person’s personality is so great and they do it in 30 minutes, we do it in 15, but they end up with 18 minutes of watch time. And we end up with like 12 minutes of watching that YouTube wants time on platform. Of course, there’s nuances to the algorithm period. End of story. How can you hold viewers attention longer? And so maybe the other way to attack this challenge is just definitely trimmed. The fluff, definitely think about dead spots. You know, I recently let me give you one example of, of actually how we practically do this. I do a show called coffee with Cannell. I livestream it. So I try to be pretty good as a communicator, but there nobody can be as good as a video editor on top of a community. There’s no way you could pause it.

Video editing is always going to make it stronger even to the point where a lot of people trim out ums and some breaths are long pauses because YouTube just likes people want that content. You know, there’s a reason we probably listened to audio books and podcasts sometimes on 1.2 or 1.5 or two X YouTube saying, Hey, just give it to me. And viewers are saying, just give it to me, you know, as fast as possible. So I don’t even have to turn it up to two X speed. And so I do, what’s called coffee with Cannell. I record the content. And then because we now have two channels, I almost have like a channel where I experiment it’s called think marketing. And then I’ll, I’ll put the hottest parts on think media that are like worthy of have taken off with. Great.

I want to ask you about that, about the channels. Okay. Well, where do you use the delineation between this should be its own channel versus like a, you know, you can, I think they’re called categories, right? You can go, I can have, I can just have several categories, like you know, like the, like you you’ve used this example a couple of times, the long form content is over here, but then the short edited clips live on a different channel. Like, is it by length? Is it topic? Like, how do you determine, Oh, I should move this to its own channel because then you’re also kind of fragmenting the viewers, but they’re getting a more focused experience.

Yeah. That’s a great question. I actually think it’s something you shouldn’t even worry about until your, you get to a hundred thousand subscribers. Yeah. So it’s kind of like, like if you’ve got your main channel, you could upload your video podcast there and also your clips there and also your one-off videos there. And also the seven week blog series when you’re touring on the road, because it’s all just building up momentum around the one channel for us, it was actually kind of creating two different brands. Think media was sort of my strategy as well as tech reviews and camera reviews combined. And this is a really powerful YouTube tip that the channel suffered for from is you never want to upload a video that subs the subscriber didn’t subscribe for. That’ll kill you on YouTube this year. You never want to upload a video that the subscribers didn’t subscribe for.

That’s how the trend strategy could backfire. Because if people thought you were always going to be political, I mean, you should do it anyways, potentially cause you want the growth and the reach, but it doesn’t make sense. Like I’ve learned this. If somebody is like, okay, Sean does camera reviews. And then I’m talking about social media strategy. They don’t want to watch that. Now. I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t do it. I’m suggesting that you should know the rules and then break them intentionally and understand that it’s like, well, that’s why because they clicked subscribe because they want more camera reviews. So they don’t click on your next video, which kills it in the algorithm. Like anybody that doesn’t engage with your most recent upload and scrolls past it on any platform signals to YouTube, Oh, we shouldn’t show this to any more people. So the dream is to have a clear value proposition of your channel and continually deliver on that value proposition.

It’s almost like a target where you could on the bulls-eye is great. Those are your best performing videos, but you don’t want to like completely miss the dartboard. You don’t want to completely miss the dartboard. You’re like, it’s kind of like it’s tied in if I go to the far outskirts, but that’s about as far away from my core promise, my core value proposition that I want to go. So we just were really steering our channel. Think media, really towards tech how to use cameras, how to use your light. What is the best light black Friday tech specials for creator gear. And then we started to think marketing. When we launched a video podcast and our minimum effective dose was at least our weekly Tuesday video podcast show on think marketing. And then it also gave us though a chance to just experiment. So especially when the pandemic happened, we started a show called coffee with candle.

Cause all my traveling got canceled and I started answering people’s questions, had their tourists on our team, started to think marketing live show. And they started to be like one hour, 90 minutes, even two hours. We’d bring people on and talk to them side by side on stream yard and answer questions. Just try to do community and try to build momentum. But what we now do is we teach for 15 to 30 minutes at the beginning and sometimes that content can be really dialed in. Great. So to land a plane on the strategy the other day I did it, it was 30 minutes long, about 28. And my editor, one of my editors did it, did an edit of it. And I went back to him and I said, we got a half short twice, twice. You know, I was like, I maybe like to hear myself talk, but like this whole story, that’s not essential.

Let’s take that thing out. And four minutes was gone. It was kind of like, it didn’t help the content. And I was like, this part right here, I took 10 seconds or 25 seconds to click around. Cause I was sharing my screen to show people. I’m like, you got to cut that down. And, and he’s typically on top of it, but I was sorta like, you know, it was maybe he’s like, he just did a quick intro, outro, whatever I’m like, bro, you need to like, this thing needs to be optimized because that’s, that’s the difference between it doing well. Let’s say with people who know you and trust you, right, as soon as you hit like a lull and you know this, cause you’re a master speaker and architect, you know, it’s like, you’ve tried different things. You’re like, okay, that story bombs. Like I lose the audience during that time.

I lose attention during that time. So masters of YouTube, which let me encourage you and everyone to that, if you can learn these types of skills, which I would argue is not an option. You have to learn how to master getting attention in a 20, 21 and beyond world. It’s just the name of the game. Janell, Elena is a great example. She went from zero subscribers to 1.3 million in three weeks with three videos. Whoa. So you don’t actually necessarily, it’s not like, Oh, if I did it, if you put out the right video with the right title, with the right thumbnail, with the right tie you know, tags and the whole deal, that’s on the right topic. And it’s a good optimized video. Youtube. It can just blow you up overnight. And maybe the strategy becomes not being so stressed. Like hope is not a strategy.

Just thinking that, like Sean said, I’m going to eventually hit it, but, but creating a system and having a mindset of taking the stairs, but leveling up those little tweaks little by little because you go okay. Once I feel that once I hit my moment and arguably, I like to encourage a lot of people use your season and obscurity to prepare you for popularity. Oftentimes people are not ready for a viral video. So if you’re building a backlog of a catalog in a backlog and you’re dialing in your YouTube strategy, you’ll be able to sustain it after you go viral and keep following up with, with a level, if you will. And again, viral could be a 33,000 viewed video that grows your channel 3000 subscribers. Now you have that core audience that really changes everything for your topic, your niche, how you not, how you help people.

And so I had Kyle edit that video down. So we took a 28 minute video out of a really long live stream. Cause I went into Q and a and knocked about nine minutes off it. So it went till about 18. It’s still like a longer teaching. I wasn’t, I’m not worried about the time if you will. I was like, it has to be 15 or it has to be, it just has to all count. As far as what’s left in there, we got to trim the fat trim, the fluff that was I, my bro, I, I repeated myself and stumbled all over my words. That whole part was unnecessary. I agree. Yes it was. And so then dialing that in and that might start with you as your own editor. It might start with you with the mindset as you’re maybe coaching somebody else. Zero, very unlikely that you’re just going to find somebody who just gets this unless you like connect them to our movement. And we just we’ll train them for you. But like, you know, you probably just keep coaching, keep tweaking. And those small tweaks eventually lead to giant peaks on YouTube.

I like it. Sean canal, kennel. I say it wrong every time Canales, how you actually say it, right? Sean Cannell rhymes with YouTube channel. Nice. That’s that’s it Sean Cannell. You guys check him out. I mean, we could go on and on. There is so much stuff. He’s one of my favorite people to follow that I actually follow. And I learned a ton from him and his team really, really, really great stuff. I love this. I think, you know, use your season of obscurity to prepare you for popularity. Isn’t that true in also a spiritual sense and a financial sense and the every other sense buddy, we just wish you the best. Thanks for pumping out such great content all the time and for sharing some of your secrets here and you know, keep it going brother. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me on

Ep 121: How To Build and Manage a Membership Site with Chris Ducker | Recap Episode

Hey, welcome to this recap edition of the influential personal brand podcast. It’s your man, Rory Vaden breaking down the interview with my good friend, Chris Ducker. I’m rolling so low on this one agent. Couldn’t be here, but I’ve known Chris for so long that I think it’s apropos that I got a chance to learn from him. And to just share with you, I think some of my highlights from somebody who I consider a friend, and I think that the first thing that Chris said that stuck with me was super simple and it’s related to something that we say ish, you know, like we, we, we talk about this concept a lot, but there was something about the way that he said it, that really,
Really resonated with me in, in a fresh way. And, and that was this, he said, when you’re building your personal brand, just focus on becoming someone’s favorite on something, right? Like, so we talk about finding your uniqueness. We talk about you know, staying, staying focused. If you have diluted focus, you have diluted results. So we kind of talk about it, like from the lens of you, of like you doing the work and our, our, our brand DNA experience is all about taking someone through these exercises to figure out what is their uniqueness. Right. But when he said it that way, it’s almost like coming at it in the reverse, it’s thinking about from your customer or from your, from your prospect’s perspective, what could you be someone’s favorite resource for, I mean, that’s such a good question. We should probably consider adding that question.
I mean, he didn’t say it that way. He just said become someone’s favorite about something, but to, to, to translate it, I guess, to a practical question and you know, maybe, maybe we should actually include, this is it’s it’s so good is to say, what could I become someone’s favorite resource for that causes you to ask the question, you know, it’s another way of coming at your uniqueness, but it also has the kind of the entertainment aspect of it to be like, you know, what do I learn the passion question of, what do I love? What am I good at? What do I know so well that I could just, you know, I could teach it in a way that so many people would, would absolutely just love it because I, I love it. And I know something about it. So that’s a question that I would, I would encourage you to just maybe think about for the week, what is something that you could become someone’s favorite resource for and think about it, think about it as the consumer, right.
As you think about, okay, who is my favorite person to follow that has spiritual messages. Here’s, who’s my favorite person to follow that has financial information. Who’s my favorite person to follow with like, you know, technology tips. Who’s my favorite person to follow in my industry. Who’s my favorite person to follow on like you know, fitness and nutrition and right. Like we another quote of mine, not a, not a quote of mine. Another one of my favorite quotes is from a guy named Scott McCain, Scott McCain, as a, as a mentor of mine. And he’s a hall of fame speaker and a bestselling author and all that. And, and one of my favorite quotes from Scott McCain, as he says, mind, share precedes market share. So it’s almost like, you know, the human brain, it’s almost like, there’s like these it’s like a filing cabinet, right?
And so we have a file for like, who’s our accountant and who’s our doctor and who’s our eye doctor and all that stuff. And so it’s people want to be able to like put you in a file. They, they want to be able to like, when I have this problem, this is the person I call. So you, you want to reverse engineer that and go, okay, what is the thing that I want people to think of when they think of, when they think of this, they call me I I’m their favorite resource for it. I’m their go-to person on it. I’m going to occupy that space in their mind. I’m going to work to own that question and to become their favorite resource so that when they have a problem that they need solved, they’re immediately going to think of me, mind is share proceeds market share.
So but anyways, the way that Chris said it was become someone’s favorite about something. And I just thought that was super simple, but super fresh in a different way of thinking about this, all important idea of finding your, your uniqueness. The second thing that he mentioned, which I really love, just because we don’t talk a lot about it. Like we don’t talk about pricing. We haven’t talked a lot about it so far in the other episodes now we have one of our events, one of our topics is called building your revenue engine. And then in the revenue engine, you know, we teach about offer structure and pricing and how to lay out your offer in a way that gets people to buy, et cetera, et cetera. But a lot of our guests, we haven’t had very many guests on this show where that has kind of come up.
And one of the things that Chris said, which I think is a very salient, you know, important nugget that you, you might’ve skipped over, but I think it’s a really big deal. And it was a, it was a big reminder for me too, is he said we almost never discount things. We almost never discount things. And I find that to be a really important principle. Like I would actually consider that to be a core financial principle that we would, we would talk more about later on in like our eight figure entrepreneur curriculum and event, which is, you know, there’s certain financial ways of thinking that are really important. And I think discounting is one of the big mistakes that people make is they just get into this habit of discounting. They set this culture of discounting. You know, when you start to scale your business, you have salespeople and then salespeople think, Oh, I can just go out and discount stuff.
And I mean, think about this for just a second, about how negative, how negative discounting can be. Right. So generally speaking for many, many businesses are for most businesses, a 10 to 20% profit margin would be really good. So like, I mean, break even it’d be 0%. Right. And that’s hard to do a lot of most businesses never succeed because they they’re never able to break even. And 10% profit margin is like, okay, that’s healthy. And 20% is like, all right, you’re, you’re crushing it. Like you’re killing it. Right. So think about discounts. Think about like coupons. Usually, what, what do you think is the most common percentage that people give away when they discount? You know, usually it’s like 10% or 20%. Like now when you go to department stores and stuff, sometimes you’ll like, see deal for 30% off or whatever. Now, you know, that’s a totally different model than a personal brand, which is a professional service.
But even in service-based businesses, 20% can be very difficult to get to if you start having a staff and a team and you really start to scale a real business. So when you do a a 10% discount or 20% discount, what did you just do? You gave away the profits of the business. That’s what happened, like all of the work and the time and the energy that would have gone into creating a successful customer acquisition and making a sale and delivering a service and making a reasonable, healthy amount of profit. All of that disappeared with the discount. Now, when we give discounts, we think, Oh, 10% is not a big deal. Even when we get discounts, right? Like if I said, Hey, I got a 10% discount for you. You probably would be like, man, whatever. But when you put on your entrepreneur hat, when you put on your business owner hat, when you put on your CFO hat, when you put on your do I have resources to invest back into a team and to grow this thing, if I gave a 10% discount, I just gave away the profit.
I just, I literally gave away the whole financial reason of being in business. That means that every, all the work that we did to find customer, you know, find a prospect, introduce ourselves to them, make them know who we are, earn their trust, make a sale, deliver a product, make them happy. They have a great experience. We did enough to pay our team, pay our employees, pay the, you know, pay the government, pay whatever, and literally nothing left over. Right. So discounting is, discounting is extremely detrimental. Discounting long-term is extremely detrimental, which, you know, if you have to do it initially to get some customers and to build some credibility, you know, I guess you do that or did to build momentum around a book launch or something like that. But it is not something that can be a part of your core business for you to scale a truly successful long term enterprise.
So, you know, and now, and what he said, which I also appreciate is, so what do you do? What you do is you add on bonuses and you can add on incentives and you can, you can do promotions. You know, like if you’re trying to create urgency, you’re trying to get someone to action. What you do is you add on something, you add on some type of of a bonus, but you don’t discount the actual price of what you collect. And if you’re building a personal brand, that’s one of the most amazing parts about being in this space is that you can create a lot of digital assets, right? Like block two hours on your calendar record of, of some videos or have a long video training. And now you have this really incredible bonus that you can offer without compromising the profit margin of your business.
So that’s just not a lesson. We hear a lot. And I thought that was really good. And then the third thing which I always love. I mean, you’re just, I think you, you, I never get sick of tired talking about it, but again, the way that Chris said it, I thought was cool. He said, do the unsexy work? Do the unsexy work like so many people get into the personal brand space specifically because it’s like, it looks glamorous, right? Ooh, I have a book, I’m an author. I’m on stage. I’m leading a webinar. I have a lot of social media followers, you know, whatever I’ve got endorsements from all these people. And yet it’s like that, isn’t the job. I, it takes me back to an episode, another really great episode that we had a while back with David Avron, who truly is one of my most influential mentors in my life.
And he was talking about getting speaking gigs. And he said something on our interview that I’d actually never heard him say, or it never stuck with me. What Dave said is he said, you know, speaking is not the business. It’s getting the speaking gig, which is what the real business is. Everybody wants to be a speaker, right? Like being on stage speaking is the fun part, but that’s not really the business. The business is getting the speaking gig. And that’s what, that’s what you need to, you need to be willing to do the unsexy work. You have to take the stairs to, to use the metaphor and illustration of my first book. In fact, there was an interview. There was an interview in the take the stairs book, one of the ultra performers that we profiled. I’ll never forget this guy. I haven’t talked to him a long time, but he’s a total stud, his name is Chad Goldwasser.
And at the time he was like the number one agent in the world out of like 76,000 agents for, for Keller Williams worldwide. And we profiled him for the take the stairs book. And Chad said, you have to learn to fall in love with the daily grind. Not just deal with it, not just get by, not just like stomach it and be okay with it. The real measure is can you fall in love with the daily grind? Can you fall in love with the hard stuff? Can you learn to embrace and enjoy the, the challenge and the struggle of the day to day? Because that’s, that’s how you’re going to make it right. Everyone can make it when things are easy, everyone can make it when the economy is booming. The question is, can you do the work when things aren’t going well, will you do the unsexy work?
Will you take the stairs? Will you fall in love with the daily grind? Because if you cannot or you are not willing, I think maybe you should just pull the plug on the thing right now, because that’s what happens to most people. Most people hang around while it’s fun while it’s easy, while it’s super lucrative. And then it’s like the moment it gets difficult, they’re out. But if you just resolve and decide and commit right now, and you say, I am going to do whatever it takes, I am going to become whoever I have to become. I am going to build the business in whatever way I have to build the business to get my message out into the world, because I believe that is the calling for my life. And I am, I am going to be driven by purpose and driven by calling and not driven by financial incentives or what is easy or what is convenient.
If you can make that decision right now, you will make it. You will make it. You will simply outlast everyone. You’ll figure it out. You’ll stay the course succeeding in this business. And really in any business, isn’t rocket science. It’s about commitment and determination and discipline. The same thing we’ve been talking about would take the stairs ever since I’ve stood on stage is discipline. And, and you hear these people come on like Chris Ducker and say it. And so we’ll say it over and over and over again. And we’ll highlight that you hear the true story, right? Like the reason we’re inviting these people on this podcast is so that you can hear the true story. You know, not the stuff you see on social, not that you see on their website, not that looks pretty.
You can hear the true story of some of the biggest personal brands in the world. And you can hear them tell the behind the scenes reality of what it took and what it takes to operate at that at that level, at their level, because that’s what we want for you. We want you to become that person. We want you to follow that calling. We believe that your message matters. We believe that you can become that person and that that calling on your life is inevitable to come true. If you stay the course, you follow some principles, tenure simply be disciplined. Thanks for being here. We love you. We’re cheered for you. Make sure you keep coming back. Come on back. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.

Ep 120: How To Build and Manage A Membership Site with Chris Ducker

Hey Brand Builder Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for tuning in to listen to this interview. We are so excited to bring you this information and wanted to let you know that, Hey, there’s no sales pitch coming from anything that we do with this is all our value add to you and the community. However, if you are somebody who is looking for specific strategies on how to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and we offer a free call to everyone that’s interested in getting to know us and is willing to give us a chance to get to know them and share a little bit about what we do. So if you’re interested in taking us up on a free strategy call, you can do that at brand builders, group.com/summit call brand builders, group.com/summit. Call. Hope to talk to you soon on with the show. Chris Ducker is easily one of my favorite Brits and probably like

I’m literally the only British person. You know, I think that is not true. That is not true. I would say that

Not true. I know quite a, quite a bit of British people, quite

A few Brits,

But man, he is amazing. I met him through Jay Baer, which just, we have close personal friends. Y’all know how much I love Jay Baer. And one of the reasons I love Chris because he’s a real entrepreneur in addition to being a, a phenomenal personal brand. So he’s written two books that are awesome, Virtual Freedom and Rise of the Youpreneur, but he owns and operates real companies. In fact, he has 350 full-time employees, mround the world. He’s got businesses in different countries. Umne of which is called virtual staff finder. For those of you looking for virtual assistance, we’ll, you know, we’ll talk more about that later. Um,t he’s also a blogger, you know, he’s a podcaster he’s, he’s got a great following. He’s built a huge personal brand himself. Uh,’s a speaker. He hosts an annual summit, u,,lled the Youpreneur summit, which, u,ually I think is in Cambridge or in England and is in London.

Okay. So he doesn’t event every year. And you know, we have a lot of overlap in terms of friends and audience and philosophy. And anyways, I just loved this guy and I, I, you need to know about him and what he does in his businesses and specifically his online business, which is the smallest part of how he makes his income because he’s got real companies doing real stuff. But he has a really big Academy called Youpreneur. It’s a membership Academy and I wanted to talk about how we built that and what does it take to really month in and month out manage a membership site because there’s good things and there’s bad things. And so anyways, Chris Ducker, my favorite Brit, glad you’re here. I’m glad

I just want you to keep talking about me. This is great. I could listen to you for hours.

Well, AJ always tells me she’s like, your introductions are too long. And I, and I, you know, I listened to everything. most everything AJ tells me, but I think it’s important cause I want you to know how much I love you. And I want, I want you listening to know every person that I bring on is here for a specific reason of someone that I learned from. And, you know, there’s you do so many of those things, but youpreneur.com, which is really the Academy, the membership site. I feel like Chris people, I feel like so many people get excited about a membership site. They start it, they run it for 15 months and then they’re like, this sucks and I’m out and you’ve done it. So how long have you done it?

We we have just hit our fifth year at the Youpreneur Academy. Which is fantastic. I mean, throughout the course of that time, gosh, I don’t know exactly how many people have swung through those doors. If I had to put a number on it, I’d say probably around about 3003 and a half thousand people have joined that period of time. We float anywhere between, you know, based on pre, you know, promotions and kind of mini launches to our lists and things like that, or float anywhere between kind of like six 50 to nine 50 members at any one time. So it’s a good sticking rate as well. I think the majority of people stick around for about a year and a half or so. Uyou know, but, but here’s the, here’s the big thing. I think the one reason why memberships, mome and go so quickly is because man it’s work that people that people think that it’s like passive income or something equally as sexy. And it’s definitely not passive. It’s probably about the most, you know, other than say, like coaching one-on-one or as well, we do, we do.

One-On-One like, it’s

That you guys, you guys would not be good poster Childs for the idea of passive income, but that’s your model you see, and that’s what everybody loves about you. And so look, here’s the deal. If you want that recurring reliable income on a regular monthly basis, you need to show the heck up every single month as well. And we do that. We do that through, you know everything from, you know, video training that goes live every month, right? The way through to a massive archive of stuff. We, the funny thing is actually we don’t produce that much new content on a monthly basis anymore. We’ve been gone well, we’ve been going five

Years, five years. You

Can talk about building relationships and, you know, providing solutions to people’s problems and packaging, your experience, which is what we do and what we’ve done, but what we, what we have been doing really successfully over the last year and a half or so is going in and revamping stuff and re kind of touching stuff up to bring it kind of more up-to-date and things like that. But there’s still a lot of stuff. I mean, without a doubt, the most fun that I have with the Academy is our monthly chit chats, which is where I get to sit down 99% of the time in person. Cause as you well know, I travel a lot and we actually usually, you know, when we’re at a conference or something, I’ll hire a suite and we’ll bring a crew in for an entire day and we’ll film like six videos in one day and then that’s our content for six months. You see? Uand you know, we actually, even though I haven’t recorded anything since March this year, which is the last time you and I saw each other in San Diego,uwe we’ve still got content good until like February next year. So, you know, we’ve

Six hours. So you batch are, are, are those like six hour long videos or are there

They run for about 30 to 40 minutes on average? I mean, how long are you going to actually honestly sit and watch two people talk to each other with like, you know, two different camera angles, you know, like people’s span of attention, pretty poor nowadays as it is. Right. But we, you know, we, we, we do great con you know, we’ve had some incredible people that we’ve sat down with over the years and that

Strikingly mediocre people like Jay Baer and Elsner Pat yeah, Pat Flynn, I know that given a large, large number of very average, average people, [inaudible] one time just wore the pants. I,uyou know, I think what it is is that that’s me,

I’m more of a talker than a typer. So, you know, I like to podcast, I like to do video work. I like to speak on stage and I like to coach and train people. And so everything else that revolves around the Academy and then also the incubator, which is kind of our higher level membership, which is more kind of one to group coaching. So if you imagine,

Are you comfortable sharing the prices with just like, so we were totally, yeah. Kind of give us a sense of like how many people and how difficult it is.

The, the Academy is 39 us a month. That’s it that simple, right.

I know I’m American, but we do have people who listen, but I appreciate that the, the th the, the U S translation, but I’m, we travel a lot. We are quite international,

Actually. It’s funny, you mentioned that on genuinely, because, you know, we, we have a massively like big worldwide audience as well. We’re very blessed like that. And so the question actually did come about, you know, what are we going to do? How are we going to charge? Are we gonna do it in GBP? Are we gonna do it in Euro? Are we going do it in the U S you know, USB? Those are really the only three currencies we talked about when we launched you know, online and Euro was kind of ditched pretty much straight away because people in Europe are used to paying, you know, in USD for stuff online. The, the, you know, the British pounds things was a conversation that went on probably for too long, purely, just because of the fact that I’m British. And since two years ago, we’ve now been based here, back in England. Whereas obviously, as you well know, we’re over in the Philippines for 18 years. Right.

So just, just for everyone to catch that, like you built these businesses living and operating and doing business in the Philippines, you moved for 18 years from England to the Philippines. I mean, that’s a, I don’t know. I mean, you’re definitely my favorite Filipino. Like, I don’t know. I don’t think I know very many and that’s, that’s amazing. Yeah. And I’m pretty sure you S you were charging us dollars when you were in the Philippines. I’m selling a very international membership site.

Totally. And I mean, you know, our businesses, you know, the, the larger of the businesses is fundamentally a B2B call center facility. So we, you know, we bill in USD and we pay all our bills and Philippine pesto, and it’s very, very profitable. And so with the Academy, it, the USD, it was just, you know, the other conversation, a lot of people have this who maybe are not, US-based, they’ll have this issue of if I’m going to write in English, obviously if I’m in Germany and I’m talking to a German audience, I’m writing in German. But if I’m international outside of the United States and I’m writing content in English, do I go with a U S spelling or do I go with British spelling? And that was an open discussion that we actually add to have. But, you know, we went, we do everything in American English. We do everything in USD billing mainly because of the fact that internationally pound for pound, the U S way of writing and charging for products and services online specifically is more universally accepted. So for your, all of your podcasts listeners slash viewers that are listening to this, there you go. I’ve just solved the problem.

Well, that is, and it makes me not feel quite as such a self-centered American. Even though that, that you, you know, so that’s interesting that that’s actually really helpful to have your perspective of that’s a conscious decision that you’ve made is just kind of the most transferable or universal. You know,

The thing is, you know, ever since my know, ever since I kind of got in, you know, left school and I didn’t go to university or college as you guys would call it. And so I went straight into the workforce strain and sales and marketing for a publishing company. I only ever had two jobs in my life prior to setting up my own firm. And,uit, it’s always, I’ve always dealt with people on an international setting. So pretty much from week one, I was talking to people all over Europe, for example, based in the UK, mhat when I went over to the Philippines, you know, set up the firm, et cetera, et cetera, I, you know, instantly knew that America was our big melting pot of prospect of customers. So, you know, it’s just one of those things. I’ve always done business on an international setting. Uh,u know, everything from time zones to international dialing codes, they’re all up here, baby. I don’t need to look any of them up so,

Well, yeah, I mean, you got tired, you got dialing codes, you have currency, you have taxes, there’s you have the writing. Like, [inaudible] like, like you’re saying the American English those are a lot of things. So, so $39 a month also gives you a very, you know globally affordable you’re factoring in certain countries that it’s like 99 a month. Like our lo our lowest price point is 99 a month, but you’re, you’re able to probably capture a much, a large percentage of the, of the world that maybe the 99 a month. Isn’t

The thing is, look, this, this is the way I look at it. Right. whether you’re just getting started online and you want to learn, you know, you want to learn how to build an audience properly and to, you know, become, I always say, you know, that you’ve got to try and become somebody’s favorite, right? So whether you’re looking to become somebody’s favorite podcaster or blogger or YouTube, or live streamer or whatever it might be when you get started, it’s good to have something other than just non-stop Googling that you can go to, that you can converse with other people that are in a similar situation and kind of learn from and brainstorm and you know, that kind of stuff. Right. But then the flip side of that kind of beginner coin is that there are people inside of the Academy who have been in business for 10 plus years, who are already running very profitable businesses, but I’ve never considered personal branding, or as I call it building the business of you ever before, it’s something they’ve never done.

And so, yeah, I’m, I’m profitable. I make money. But I’ve got no idea how to you know, build, build my website out properly to position myself as an expert. I’ve got no idea how to utilize my uniqueness as a person and my personality and my experiences to be able to bring in additional business et cetera, et cetera. Right. So this is, you know, the Academy really kind of just like it ticks all those boxes at a low price so that anybody can really afford it. Some might say, well, why don’t you just give it away for free? The reason being is because I didn’t give anything away for free. It’s really that simple. My time is a premium. And if it requires my time, even just a couple hours a month, if you want it, you’re gonna have to pay for it.

It’s really that simple. And so that’s why, you know, that, that’s one of the reasons why we got around to,ulaunching two years ago, the incubator, which is like, kind of like the next tier, mhich ends up, you know, it’s like 2,500 bucks for the year and us dollars. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, that is, you know, more time with me each month as a group one to many, no, one-on-one coaching one to many. Um, you know, it’s a smaller group of people, uh s up being around about a hundred people or so at any one time, some people come, some people go, um,a uh,i great because you know, those who do stick around for that entire year plus, uh,t see incredible, incredible growth. Uh, ioesn’t take much.

And, and, and even though you, you said you’ve been kind of hovering steadily between 600 to 900 members, you know, 40 bucks a month. That’s still, you know, whatever 20, 25, maybe $30,000 a month. And you’ve got, you got expenses, you’ve got some staff and stuff, but that’s, that’s a, a nice, healthy stream of consistent revenue that helps like pay the bills. And then the incubator becomes a little more profitable and a little more time. And then, you know, most of your time, your personal time, you’re actually putting into these other, other businesses. And so how do you, how do you fill it? How do you fill the membership? Okay. So I, I really love that it’s work, like hearing in that truth is important. How do you go about filling it? Like, do you do the big push twice a year? Like open cart, closed cart? Is it always open? Do people come and go, do you have affiliates? Do you run ads? Is it social? Is it Google, YouTube? Like, how do you actually sell the thing? Right. Like, how do you, how do you get people to pay money for this?

So we don’t do any affiliates. We don’t do any Google ads. We do a little bit of Facebook advertising, I guess we probably drop a couple of grand a month, us on Facebook ads for it. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s a low price point. So you’re going to look at like cost per acquisition, feature, new customers,

Right? Someone’s got to stay a long time,

Incubator incubator a little bit more. That’s a little easier to kind of warrant pushing more ad spend behind because it’s that 2,500 price point, right. Or if I have to drop a hundred bucks, 150 bucks to acquire a customer all day long, I’ll do that all day long. Right. But with the Academy a little bit different, I’ll tell you what we do. We produce [email protected], both from a blogging perspective. So written content along with graphical content. So infographics, Instagram stories we’ve got something that we do on my Instagram account called carousel wisdom, where people have to flick through and it sits on the grid. People love those. We do the podcast on a weekly basis, and there’s just one very simple formula that we follow to every single piece of content that we create. And this is what we teach our clients as well when we’re coaching them.

And it’s just as simple as this, always answer a question, that’s it. If you can create a piece of content that always answers a question, or for want of a better term, provides a solution to somebody’s pain point, regardless of what that might be. If you can do that with every piece of content that you create, it’ll have a long form effect on prospective customers, not only finding you, but then having those actually convert into paying customers for you. And, and by the way, that’s not a $39 like product strategy. That’s just a strategy for selling online. Consistently periods show up every single week, over and over and over again, with whatever piece of content that you feel most comfortable producing, but just make sure that you’re always answering a question or solving a problem. If you do that, people will find you

You’re constantly building trust. You’re, you’re blogging, you’re podcasting you you’re, you’re putting out that content. And then how do you what’s the conversion mechanism? Is it just, you literally send them an email and say, click and go to this. Like, here’s what it is. Click go to this, there’s a sales page. This is what’s included. It’s 39 bucks a month and sign up. Sure.

Ah, I mean, it’s, that’s pretty much it, you’ve just, that’s it’s I don’t like to complicate things out. And so you know, it, it, it really just comes down to obviously, I mean, we’ve, we’ve rewritten and rewritten them rewritten our landing pages, not sales pages. We tested things out. We know what you know, what terminology to use on our ads, but, but we never actually ever, will we ever spend money on cold audiences? All of the ads that we run are run to warm audiences, meaning they’ve either visited our website. They’re either on our email list or engaging with us or at the office.

So they’re all pixeled. They’re either pixeled audiences, or they’re an email list, custom audience that you have.

But for us, I mean, without a doubt, email is King. I mean, that’s yeah, you visit youpreneur.com. You’ll have multiple opportunities to get onto our email list. We have a great opt-in that we provide called the personal Brown roadmap. And it’s just a simple 10 step kind of checklist, 10 things to kind of pay attention to when you’re building a personal brand. Uwe get an average of around about a hundred organic opt-ins every single day and just every day, every day. Yeah. Every day, if we run ads that will double, triple that. Right? So this, this is because the website has been around long enough with, you know, four or five, 600 pieces of content on it that Google is indexing us for all of our search terms, right?

This is why the blogging is so important. Cause it’s like social media over time gets less valuable, but blogging content over time gets more valuable. The website.

Exactly, exactly. And I always say like, social media is great. You should absolutely utilize those platforms. Use that. Absolutely. Make sure that you’re focusing in on maybe one or two of them that you really like yourself, but his, the brutal reality of it, you don’t own those platforms. Google owns YouTube, Mark Zuckerberg and his friends own Facebook. You own Chris ducker.com or Rory vaden.com. You can control those. So you always have to utilize those other platforms to get people back to your hub. And then your number one goal as someone building a business online is to get them on your email list. And we went through five or six different opt-in magnets before we settled on the personal brand roadmap, which has been updated two or three times over the last three, four years. So it’s fully up to date links work, you know, resources are good, all that good stuff in it. But the fact of the matter is that once people are in that funnel, we can not only serve up more content that will obviously help and help them, but we can then obviously, you know, let them know as, and when we might be running promotions, you know, white, this is a good fit for them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I stay away from launches. It’s not my style. It’s too stressful. Um, I do like running promotions two, three times a year where,

We’ll, we’ll very rarely

Discount anything we do, but we’ll add on certain bonuses to it. I stand behind our pricing because I feel like what we do is truly worth it, but I don’t mind giving somebody a free access to, you know, five videos for a month to learn how to XYZ, whatever it might be.

Well, I love it. You can see this, as we’ve mentioned, several times, you preneur.com. So this is, you know, several of our audiences, the perfect audience for this. So you guys go, go watch what he’s doing, check out what he’s doing, get on his email list. And I mean, Hey,

Everything, copy, swipe them and take them for yourself and get them

30, 39 bucks a month. I mean, it’s, it’s like 39 bucks a month. I mean, that’s like what you, you, you, you spend that on like sliced deli at the, at the grocery. So is there anywhere else you would drive people to Chris, Chris Ducker? Where do you want people to go?

I wouldn’t be much of a personal brand entrepreneur myself, if I didn’t have Chris docker.com. So that’s what it’s all about. Really. Chris ducker.com at Chris Docker, Instagram, there are two spots

And we’re going to talk more about virtual staff finder because we have a bunch of people who need help running our system, that we teach them, that we call the content diamond for managing social. And I need to talk to you about virtual staff finder because we need to see if we can hook up a deal for our audience on that. So

Would love to do that. Everybody should have a virtual assistant if they’re building, you know, a personal brand and

Yeah.

Helped just over 10,000 people in the 10 years we’ve been in business, actually find that. So yeah, we, we know a thing or two about it. Let’s do that

When you come back and talk about that. But anyways, Chris ducker.com check him out. He’s awesome. Cool guy. We love him. Appreciate your pre-state your transparency buddy. And showing us just like how straightforward and simple

It’s work, baby it’s work. I’ll do the work. You gotta do

The work, the unsexy work. That’s what you gotta do. You gotta do the unsexy work. I like it. Wish you the best. My friend.

Thank you, brother.

Ep 119: Blending Your Personal Brand and Network Marketing with Rebecca Louise | Recap Episode

Hey, welcome to the recap edition of the influential personal brand podcast is Rory Vaden and AJ Vaden. Today we’re breaking down our top three highlights from Rebecca Louise. Why don’t you go?

Yeah, as far as well, I just love her. She s so spunky. It’s such a fun interview and she gives so much, so much transparency and value and this interview so highly recommend it I would say the thing that I’m going to start with, and we’ve mentioned this several times now on these recaps is the fact that we’ve heard it once we heard it again and again and again, and Rebecca just kind of came in and reiterated it again, is that YouTube is such a force to be reckoned with. And I just, I am just so I’m so awestruck of the amount of people that we talk to that talk about the fundamental elements of YouTube being a driver for their business, but yet, and kind of the external world, you don’t hear a lot of that being discussed. And what I loved about her, she said that, and this was my big aha takeaway.

So I’ll get to it. She said that the thing that’s awesome about YouTube is it helps you really determine what your audience wants from you so that you can just give them more of the same thing and that the more of the same thing that you give them. And the more that YouTube sees that that’s what people want from you. They, their own algorithm will help explode your videos. And that to me is just so awesome and just genius. And the fact that it’s like, yes, do more of what people want from you. Don’t try to do all the different things, just do more and more and more of the same thing.

I think for me, it was, it’s interesting because there’s technical takeaways from her like that, that I loved and took away also the emotional side of just her attitude and her mindset really stuck with me. And I, I love just this idea of, of starting where you are and just starting with what you have and just be willing to just start and just go, like, no matter how far or fast or slow you can go, just go and then reinvest and reinvest and reinvest, and you can make it bigger and better later on. But I think it was interesting because she, she is a client of brand builders also. And, and you know, her a lot of her personal brand message which I think is where she’ll end up going longterm is really about action. It’s really about helping people move and create motion and and just kind of get, get past being stuck. And, and it comes through in her personality. That’s a huge part of her uniqueness. So start with, start where you’re at and be willing to just reinvest and then, and then grow from there. And that’s similar

To my second takeaway. And my second takeaway was I thought it was such a unique description of how she said that she uses her direct sales business as a part of funding, her personal brand and vice versa, but how she spends her time in both of them as she goes all in on one of them in a season and takes the money that she has gained from one of them to help fund the other. She said, but I’m always all in, on one of them. So in some seasons is my direct sales business and on others, it’s my personal brand. But I think the thing that was most interesting, and she didn’t say this quite this way, but as the fact that they they’re both synonymous with each other, right, it’s her personal brand is actually driving a ton of leads to her direct sales business. And through her direct sales business to her personal brand is gaining an enormous amount of traction, but she’s spending super intentional time and seasons on each of them independently to make sure that they get what they need to get off the ground running. So I thought that was amazing and it goes back to the investment

Well, in my, and, and I, I, that was my second takeaway actually was the, the best way to monetize a personal brand is to bolt it onto the thing you’re already doing. Like the fastest path to cash is to just use it as an accelerant to what you’re already doing. And for her that was direct sales and in the beginning and still is. And I, gosh, I mean, there’s so many people in direct sales and other businesses, financial serves professional, all the professional services, all entrepreneurs that you can just take your personal brand and use it as a marketing engine for the thing that you already have. Why wouldn’t you be doing it? I mean, this, this, I think this is just like, it’s not just the, the, it’s the future of marketing in general. Like, this is what personal branding is, what marketing will look like in the future. It’ll be all about the personality. So I, I thought that was cool. Really cool. Example of her, you know, crushing it in both direct sales and her personal brand.

Yeah. And my third takeaway, and there were so many technical things, but for whatever reason, this really stuck out to me was the fact that she started by somebody else hiring her to do YouTube exercise videos, a casting call, and she was getting paid 40 bucks an episode. And I just want you to like, let that settle in. And here’s what I found that was interesting is she, wasn’t so sure about what her content was about. But it was, Hey, I know that this sounds good and I can do this and do this for her. It was talk, watch she works out. But here’s what I thought was fascinating. It wasn’t that she had this like compelling message within her to start is the fact that she started. Yeah. And from there she realized like, I really love this. I need to do more of this.

So then she got her certification. And then from that, she built her own show and now she just released a book and then she’s got her direct sales is like, now she’s got like this multi-million dollar empire, all because she said, I don’t know where this will lead, but I’m going to start with this. And it was doing somebody else just show getting paid 40 bucks an episode, but she was willing to just start. And from there, that’s where she fell in love with what she was doing and found her passion and found her message. And it wasn’t like all this work you do off by yourself and then trying to make it perfect. It was like, no, just get in and do it and figure it out as you go.

Yeah. I also thought her mentality, wasn’t like, Oh, I’m not making enough money. Or I’m being taken advantage of. She was like, Oh, I’m learning. This is fun. I’m doing it. And then it’s like, Hey, I’m going to do this myself and figure it out. Was super cool. W w one of the other things that, that she said, or we talked about that really reminded me of something that we say around here a lot is we say people don’t pay for information. They pay for organization and application. And when she was talking about that, she basically just puts her exercise tips on YouTube for free. And that’s what she does. That’s what she’s always done. And then what do people pay for? Well, they, they pay for more, but they pay, they pay for them more organized right.

Organization application

In a way it’s not just like some random, like three minute tip, it’s a full 20 minute workout or a series of workouts. And now she’s rolled that into, into her app, this awesome app. I mean, she’s just crushing the app business, which is so cool. And I think just a good reminder because all of us are either we don’t know what we would put out for free, or we go, well, I can’t just teach everything I know for free. What would people pay me for? And just don’t ever forget people don’t pay for information. They pay for the organization and application the assistance of implementing that knowledge into their life. That is,

Yeah. That’s such a good takeaway. And then too, that it’s like this just randomly came to me. It’s like the fact that she has taken this entire message and this archive of content and put it into an app, right. It’s like, it’s, yeah. It’s one thing to do social media, but it’s like taking it to a whole nother level in terms of what does a membership program look like for you? Now, you’ve got to have the money and the investment to do that type of infrastructure. But if you do this the right way and you go all in again, it’s take the money you make to reinvest it to make more money. And it’s building a business that you can have for a lifetime. That’s so much of what it’s all about.

The first, the out thousands of members, she had all sharing the same password. That was how she started. Right? Like it wasn’t, she she’s, she scrapped her way there and you can too. And Hey, you know, that’s why brand builders is here is also to help you apply the things that we’re learning and teaching. And that our guests are we’re in the business of one, on one coaching, help you apply this. So at some point we hope you request to call, talk to someone on our team. Umf nothing else, just keep coming back here and we’ll keep supporting you on your journey. That’s it for now? We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.

Ep 118: Using Your Personal Brand to Grow Your Existing Business with Rebecca Louise

Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for tuning in to listen to this interview. We are so excited to bring you this information and want it to let you know that, Hey, there’s no sales pitch coming from anything that we do with this is all our value add to you and the community. However, if you are somebody who is looking for specific strategies on how to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and we offer a free call to everyone that’s interested in getting to know us and is willing to give us a chance to get to know them and share a little bit about what we do. So if you’re interested in taking us up on a free strategy call, you can do that at brand builders, group.com/summit. Call brand builders, group.com/summit. Call. Hope to talk to you soon on with the show.

I am so honored and excited to introduce you to my friend, Rebecca Louise. Those of you that follow her on social may know her as Rebecca Louise fitness. If you don’t know her, let me just give you a couple stats, I guess, cause I’m a big fan of, of people’s, you know, their actual results and what they have produced, which is what one of the things I love about her. So she, I guess was originally known for her YouTube following. I don’t know if that’s right to say, but she’s gotten about 648,000 followers subscribers on YouTube 250,000 on Facebook, 540,000 on Instagram. But here is to me that one of the coolest things, and one of the reasons I, I invited her on the show is she has an app that is now called BTES that has over 11,000 paying monthly subscribers.

She’s got two different pricing tiers, which we may talk about, and it is one of the, the best fitness apps in the world. And, and very longstanding, very reputable has a lot of success stories from clients. But she also is she kind of, she came out of, or one of the things that she does is network marketing as well. We’re not going to mention the name of the company here, but it is a very recognizable, very well known network marketing company. And you all know that we love network marketing. We believe in it. I’m a product of it. My mom, yeah. I grew up around it. I speak to a lot of network marketing, marketing companies. And then her newest thing is that she actually released a book this year called it takes grit which quickly became a bestseller. And anyways, she’s just an all around baller and awesome, awesome lady. I met her as part of a mastermind that I was a co-leading with Lewis howes for, for Lewis was Lewis’ mastermind. She was, she was in there and anyways, it was like, you got it. You got to meet Rebecca Louise. So welcome to the show, Rebecca,

Thank you so much for the lovely introduction. I go down, I’ll record that and just wake up to that every day. It’s going to be my new affirmations

It’s been recorded and I, you will have, it will be available to you whenever you want. So can you just talk to us a little bit about your journey? I mean, I that’s, we kind of think of this show is like the real life story. Because people go, Oh my gosh, you have millions of social media followers and, and, and literally, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in recurring revenue from your app every year. But you know, my guess is it didn’t start quite like that right out of the gate. So could you just give us like your, your backstory?

Yeah. So originally I’m from England and I came to America 22, 23 years old to get my commercial pilot’s license pilot’s

License. That’s awesome.

Yeah. And I ended up getting the whole license. I went back to the UK, did all my written exams. And then I was like, I just don’t feel like this is in alignment with what I’m supposed to do, but I loved Southern California and I grew up watching Laguna Hills on MTV. And I was like one day, you know, Lauren Conrad, I’m going to be driving down PCH in my convertible car and I’m going to go for lunch with my my OC crew. And so I got a visa managed to get myself a visa work visa to come to America because I’d done loads of random jobs in London before. So I had tried to do acting, you know, backing, dancing, TV, hosting, like all the things I got myself, a visa together to come to America. And when I got here, one of the first things that I did was I just started go for castings in Hollywood.

And I was like my British accent. It’s going to be fine. I’m going to be able to get jobs turns out that’s not the case. But what I did is I went to an audition to be on a YouTube channel. And I didn’t even know what YouTube was at the time. Yeah, it wasn’t even, it really wasn’t. It was, I mean, I feel so old. It’s like nine years ago now. And so I get that and it’s to be on a YouTube channel. That’s about fitness. Now. I grew up playing so much sports. I knew. What about fitness? Nothing about personal training. So I did not have my personal training license at the time. However, when I went to the costing and they’re asking you to do like a little workout and tool, I was like, Oh my goodness, this is my one talent in life. I can talk and workout the thing.

This is my thing. And so I remember getting the job and I got paid $40 per episode. And I was just so grateful and I would go up and I would film. And I was just in my element and off the 18 months of filming, we grew it to, I think, a million subscribers it’s now like 3.2 or something. And then they just filming. They stopped filming because I just wasn’t really a passion project. It was more a test or trial and error thing and probably to make some residual income. So after about a year of not filming workouts, people on my social media were like, are you going to film more workouts? Are you going to do this? And I’m like, I don’t know, because I’ve just built something to a million subscribers. I got to start again. She didn’t own it. I didn’t own it.

I was part of it. I just got paid $40 per episode to make these workouts. And I grew it because I was excited and I didn’t think about the residual income. I didn’t understand that. And so during this time where it was ending, I found network marketing and my coach in network marketing was like, you need to be doing it yourself so that you can make the money. And I was like, cause we talk about that in network marketing, right. I’ll do the work and I can do the, make the money, or you can do the work and you can make the money. Right. So I got started with network marketing and got amazing results on these nutrition products and then got my confidence to actually start my own YouTube channel. And I

Just a pause right there, even though you were doing network marketing, it was still kind of aligned with your audience because it was a nutrition, your network marketing business was a nutrition product, and which is kind of what you were building your whole personal brand around. So even though it’s like a different business model, it still fit inside of the personal brand that was becoming Rebecca Louise.

Absolutely. And I knew about fitness because I, by that time, I then got my personal training license. Cause I thought I better get this, this I’m doing these workouts online. And I actually didn’t know anything about nutrition. I’d really struggled in my teens with an eating disorder. I got down to 86 pounds and I’m 107 pounds right now. So 20 pounds lighter, that’s quite a difference for somebody who’s five foot, two and a half. So I didn’t actually know anything about nutrition, but it did fit and because it’s nutrition of fitness, but what it gave me was confidence. And, and energy and strength. And I got an incredible result from it as well. So yeah, I started the network marketing business and from the income that I got from that, I was able to invest it into creating my own brand.

Yeah. That’s, that’s such a common story that it’s like, you’re, you know, you do something to create income and then you’re taking that income and actually reinvesting it into the, the thing you, you wanted to do. So yeah. Talk to me about the, the mentality there of YouTube. Because I went through something similar here, we exited our former business and like one day you, one day you go to sleep, you’ve got hundreds of thousands, millions of people you’re reaching online. And the next day we literally wake up. It’s like, I have zero followers. And I’m starting on zero. So did you have some of that, like emotional, you know, head trash to deal with? Or like, how did you bounce back from going? There’s millions of people watching me too, nobody a hundred and I

100% I Didn’t have confidence. I was like, I’ve already built this. How am I going to start again from zero? So I actually started to do is I created a subscription model way before I even started my YouTube channel and I was trading. It was 9.99 a month. It was all on desktop. It was one video a day, which was 10 minutes. There was no recipes. There was nothing at anything else, but I was like, I need to be able to make money because I just, you know, hadn’t got money anymore from this $40 per episode. I mean, it wasn’t much, but at the time when somebody takes that kind of income away from you, you’re like, you know, even if it’s a thousand dollars a month and you’re only making 3000, that’s a lot of money. That’s a third of your income. Right. So I actually had this subscription because I was like, I needed to get money in.

And after about, I would say like nine months, I think I just, somebody told me like, you need to put this stuff out in the world. You need to just let it go for free. And you need to build your YouTube channel because that’s how you’re going to build your brand. And so my income and my network marketing company had kind of built up by that time. So I didn’t feel that, you know, letting all of this stuff and letting my subscription model go would be such a bad thing financially. So then about six years ago, I was like, you know what, I’m just going to put all my videos on YouTube. And for probably about two years, I just let all the videos go. And then I brought the subscription model back as a desktop version that was through Squarespace where everybody had the same password. So it looked like your unique password. Cause it was like que exclamation, Mark, lowercase, whatever. So it’s like number I like probably had, you know, five, 600 members at that time paying nine 99 with all the same password, no idea how to cancel anyone’s account, but I was just alone. And then it just evolved more.

And if you have, if you have five, if you have 500 people paying you 10 bucks a month, you had, you were having $5,000 a month coming in, just doing it yourself. Like, no, you didn’t have like the tech the about you’re using free Squarespace, like set it up, just password, protect a section. And that was how you started. Like that’s how you got to $5,000 a month.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Squarespace. Same, same password for everybody. We’ll be fine.

Huh. But you’re so you’re just so you’re hustling it and, and now I don’t want to skip over. It sounded like you said for two years, you actually, when you went free, you gave everything away for free for two years and then went back to charging. Did, did I catch that right?

Yes I did. Because I just let go of everything of the subscription model because it wasn’t actually building my brand. Like it wasn’t building YouTube. And honestly that is where I get most of my referrals from that’s where I’ve grown most of my brand from. So I’m so glad that I wasn’t narrow minded to say, you know, no, I’m not going to allow any free videos out there because then nobody’s going to want to pay for my subscription. That’s not the case. You know, you can have hundreds of videos or hundreds of free content online and people will still pay for your product. So I had my mindset about that.

Yeah. So can we talk about that? Cause I was, that was one of the things I wanted to ask you is I think a lot of us struggle with, okay, what can I give away for free and how much can I give away for free and what should I charge for and where do I draw that line? And like how much and how frequent. So how have you wrapped your mind around that? Like, what’s your personal philosophy there, about how much you give away and what you give away versus what you charge for in the app?

Honestly, I’ve given out a free YouTube video every single week for almost six years. I’ve never missed a new workout coming out. That is one thing, consistency. So there are, I think there might be four or 500 videos on my YouTube channel, but what that does is it keeps the channel alive. It keeps new people coming in and that’s the whole thing. It’s new people coming in that you’re exposing it to one workout a week or even two a week with a couple of recipes here and there isn’t even a patch and what you get inside the app, like the app is just a whole other level. It’s all there in one place. It tracks your progress. You know, you can check off your workouts that you’ve done. You can get points for doing things in the app. So it’s just a whole other level. So there’s a massive difference in standard, but I can still put out content all the time with getting people to still want to purchase the app.

And so would you say those, like, I would classify a lot of that as like additional features beyond the content. So would you say that the way you do that, it was like, okay, I’m kind of giving away a lot of the content on YouTube, but in the app it comes with all these additional, these additional features. Is there also more content in the app or is it more about the additional features?

Yeah, there’s more content, there’s more, less, longer length workouts. So on YouTube every week I put a 10 minute workout out and that same workout is just a 28 minute workout with a warmup and a cool-down in the app. So you just get a lot more you know, there is 300 recipes inside of the app. You can filter them, you can search which ones that you want. There’s a whole video library that you can search through. It just makes it easier. And for a starting price of $3 and 99 cents a month, that will also track your workouts. It gives you what workouts to do each day as well. So that you, everybody’s kind of doing the same thing. It’s an accountability group. We have a Facebook group and people are just feel part of the community. They’re like, Oh my goodness. Did you do your BTS workout today? Yes, I did. Like how did you find it? So it’s more about a structure and being part of it, like being part of the community, rather than just saying, I’m doing a 10 minute workout here, 10 minutes here and I don’t really have anything that I’m missing.

Yeah. I love that. You know, I think brand builders group is very similar cause we do like a five minute video every single week, but then the, the, our, our, our entry-level product is $99 a month. And it’s two hour long virtual trainings every month where it’s like, it’s very similar to the content you would receive for free, but just spread out over forever and disorganized. So I think that’s, so that’s interesting to see in that application, even in inside of your world, inside of the, the fitness, the fitness space. So while we’re on the topic here of, of YouTube, I mean, this is one that I missed the boat on. I’ve missed the boat on YouTube, my entire career. It’s always been just like this, like, eh, I’ll throw something up there and now I’m like, Oh my gosh, I am stupid.

Like YouTube is where it’s at. W you mentioned consistency, which seems like everyone, everybody says, you know, that’s the ultimate secret is just consistency. Which, you know, don’t anyone skip over that and miss that in addition to that, is there anything else specific to YouTube? Cause you’ve done this twice. You’ve built a huge following, started over and built another huge following, which I find even more impressive than someone who’s done it once. Are there any other like tactics or strategies or mindsets or things that you think are out specific to YouTube?

Really, it’s just what your audience want. Like, I mean, that’s the thing with like any social platform? Like what is it that they want? Like I know which videos do really well on YouTube that AB workouts, you know, a lot of AB workouts, basically a lot of app, maybe some booty workouts. So I know that when I put one of those workouts out, it really does like help the algorithms. So, you know, you could just be a YouTuber. That’s like, Hey, this is the one thing that my people like, and you can keep putting the same content over and over and over again and not being worried like, Oh, well I just didn’t add work at like three weeks ago. No, they want more, they want another one and it helps the algorithms go up as well. And you know, I’ve sometimes made the mistake of going, you know what?

I want to give people overall fitness because that’s what I’m about. I’m about doing the cardio, the weights, you know, a bit of everything. So I try to put that on my YouTube channel, but it actually hurts the algorithm. You know, I have a girlfriend that’s done really well on YouTube and completely blown up this shit at everything is just abs abs and the same thing over and over. And again, so sometimes you want to be creative and do different things, but the algorithm on YouTube is very specific of, you know, what is working and it will really literally rocket you, you keep putting the same content that your audience is liking over and over and over again.

And you’re doing, you’re determining that by data.

Yes, you can tell. So as soon as you put a YouTube video out, it will tell you, Hey, this workout is doing higher than your other ones normally. And it will give you a ranking at a 10 with where it’s at, or it’ll say, Hey, this one’s just not picking up as many subscribers or it’s not doing as well. And then you’re like, Oh my goodness. Like I knew I shouldn’t have put that out there. So there is a little bit of like trial and error sometimes because you’re like, I want to put this out to see if my audience would be receptive to it because sometimes they’re not, you know, I started putting vlogs on my main channel and it hurt the channel because that’s just not what my audience were there for. So I had to pivot and put it onto a different YouTube channel.

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that’s such a simple process. I mean, that’s, everybody’s create, that’s the way comedians they create and they test, they create a joke, they test it, they create and test and then they’re just responding from, from the audience. So I love that. Do you do you know, so you have the app, which is huge and y’all, if you didn’t catch this, so three $93 and 99 cents a month, like it’s, this is a very affordable deal. You’re loaded into this app. You have you have also a eight, what is it? Eight 99 for a VIP version. And then 11,000 paying monthly members on this thing that you’ve built over, how long

It’ll be three years in January that the app came out.

Interesting. Okay. So within three years now you had spent two years before that though building up the audience for free before you really started monetizing it. Okay. awesome. So one other question here about, I want to ask you specifically about network marketing, because we, you know, I mentioned we love network marketing as part of my background. My family’s background is we speak, it’s probably the number two audience that I speak to. And how do you balance? Because I think this is becoming a really big issue with network marketing is people make a lot of money in network marketing and it’s, it’s kind of a thing where it’s like a lot of people leave but they don’t leave because they’re still making money. And you know, we’re big fans of going, Hey, the, the fastest way to monetize your personal brand is to use it, to throw fuel on the thing that you’re already doing.

That makes money for some people that makes a lot of sense. They go, Oh yeah, for sure other people go, no, I actually like having kind of two different streams going here. So is there anything you can say about maybe your personal philosophy about how you kind of balance a brand of network marketing and then your personal brand, and, and, and I also would ask you in your network marketing company, do you have people on your team, like in your organization, you do right. You’ve got in your kind of downline, a bunch of people. So I think this is a question that network marketing leaders are also struggling with is like, okay, social media and personal branding is so powerful. What is the message I should give to my team about how to use it and not use it. So anything in that kind of mess, because I think that’s like a little bit of a mess that the network marketing world is trying to sort out and we’re trying to sort out and trying to help them, you know, Edify something that enforces the company, but also, you know, helps people succeed with their personal brand.

And, and you just hit the, like one of the top levels of your network marketing company. So you’re doing both. So yeah. Talk about that for a minute.

Yeah. And I love this and mine are completely intertwined and I love it that way. Because I really feel like net what marketing is, how I can help somebody have the life that I have. I have a brand, I, that’s a specific thing that I know if you want to learn how I did my brand, you have to pay me, you know money to do that. But I want to be able to give the opportunity to everybody. And that’s why I love network marketing over the last seven years. You have to be all in. And one of the things to really Excel at that. So first of all, it was my network marketing company. Like I was filling with that. Once I got that to a certain position for 18 months, I was like hard on in my network marketing company. When I got my check to a certain level, I started to work on my brand when I was starting to employ people.

I would get this to a level where then I would go back into the network marketing really heavy and get that to the next position. And so I would literally do one thing at a time because you really have to it’s, it’s trying to build a multimillion dollar business, both of them, you know, they’re going to take all of your time, but Hey, have you got employees that can just take over for a couple of months while you dive back into your network marketing company? This year was the only year that I have been a hundred percent in both because we’ve had so much growth because of what’s been going on. I’m like, I, can’t not, I can’t afford not to go all out with both of these, but how I’ve worked at over the years is that, you know, I worked in fitness and it’s nutrition is that it’s completely interlaced. So I have YouTube, Instagram, all of the things they funnel into a free 30 day program. After that 30 day program, they get on the app or maybe they get on there.

Okay. Sorry, hold on. So I back up a little bit, I’ve, I’ve started to miss that and I don’t want to, I don’t want to miss this. So tell me, this is kind of like how you see the flow of, of moving somebody in kind of through your system. So maybe from the beginning, they start with YouTube.

Yeah. Because if you have a personal brand, it’s like, how can you bring in those leads to actually have enabled them to become distributors? You know, this is my flow. This is how it works for me. So we have you come in through YouTube, Instagram, whatever, probably they’re followers of mine. They come in, they get onto the app after they’ve done like a free 30 day program that we offer or they get on the app. Once you’re inside of the app, there is a free, like five day better you program. And on that, they get a coach and I have nine frontline coaches and they talk with my new clients that come in through the app about, Hey, what results that you’re looking for? You know, are you allergic to anything? How can we get you started? And then they actually get started on a nutrition plan.

And so those leads come in and they get given to my well, I have my BTE as coaches, and they are all in my network marketing team and certain levels in my network marketing team. But they have to be a certain level to be able to apply, to become a BTS coach. So then they get those leads. And then what happens is those people then get started on a nutrition plan. They get amazing results and we tell them, Hey, do you want to be part of our girl group? Do you want to be part of our community of the BTS coaches and other people, you know, getting started and helping your friends and family get results. They’re like, Oh my goodness, of course, I want to be part of your girl, dang. Like this sounds amazing. Like I have 30 girls flying into my, you know, into my home this weekend to celebrate and recognize all of the new coaches.

We have a leadership development weekend. So then those people got started on a program, become distributors because they want to be part of it. And it just drip feeds from them. So I’ve used my personal brand to help build my network marketing because, you know, I love my network marketing company. I’m never going to leave it. My heart and soul is like some that web marketing companies you get in and you get out and you make the money. And that’s absolutely fine. All companies kind of different. We have people that have been there for 40 years. And when I got started as all the same people that are there, and I know that, you know, if I, I can’t film workout videos forever, like there’s going to be a point where I’m just too old and I thought move around. So I don’t know what’s going to happen with that business, but I know that I’m always gonna have my network marketing company and I can always flourish that, and that really is, I think the strong part of this top part here, it’s actually building this legacy forever.

Wow. So you basically, you’ve done exactly what we were talking about. You have taken a personal brand and you have basically bolted it on as the entry point to a network marketing business model. Now it’s, it’s, it’s also its own thing. It’s a sustainable thing of its own, but it’s also feeding back towards towards a long-term network marketing company. Yeah. Wow. I love that. I mean, I just, I think that’s so brilliant because it’s like, you’re living your passion. You’re helping lives. You’re building your personal brand, you’re making a difference. And some percentage of those people are going to be a fit for the ultimate thing that you’re building long term. And you’re not, it’s like a constant pool of people, but you’re not, you’re not offending anyone. You’re not forcing it on them. You’re letting them kind of self-select through the whole process.

That is fascinating. Love it, love it. Love it. Okay. I want to ask you about your book, but before I do that well, let me ask you about your book first, real quick. So it takes grit is, is now you are officially a bestselling author, which is so awesome. We were talking about that when I first met you whatever 18 months ago. And you know, some of those, some of those, some of those things tell us about the book and where does the book come from and how does that book kind of sit in between the space of your fitness personal brand and your network marketing business, and, you know, you’re the old Rebecca Louise and then the future, Rebecca Louise.

Yeah. So I started writing the book in 2019. So I was introduced to an agent in March of 2019 and pitched this idea. And I didn’t know at the time, like I was ready for a book, but I have all of this training inside of my head for the last six, seven years of working with mentors and going to masterminds. And I want it to be able to give my audience something that was like a no BS guide to how you get to where you really want to be. Because I feel like loads of people are like, Oh yeah, just do this and just do these Instagram posts and blah, blah, blah. And then you’re going to be fine. It’s like, Oh no, I’m going to prepare you for all the crap that’s going to happen. And when you’re prepared for that, you’re going to be like, Oh, Rebecca told me this was going to happen.

And this is how it happened to her. And this is how she overcame it because in my community, I have a lot of people who love the fitness and love the nutrition. But what changed for me, most importantly, as I got older was my mindset. You know, I was introduced to Jim Roan and Tony Robbins, and I was like, my community don’t know personal development. And I was like, I get to be the vehicle to share with them. And that’s why I started my podcast in January 28, 2019. It takes grit. And that, that involved into something that I can actually give people to say, Hey, you know, this is what it really takes to get to where you are. And you can look at somebody on a pedestal and be like, Oh my goodness, it’s amazing. How do they get there? But I share a lot of my own personal testimonials and stories of things that have happened to me that could have thrown me off, but instead I just like stepped forward and made it happen. And this is how I got to where I am today.

Wow. Well, I love, I love it. This is thank you for being so transparent with just your YouTube secrets, your app, your numbers your network marketing business. And I think it seems like, you know, transparency, there is like one of your, one of your superpowers and it takes grit. Seems like it’s a lot about the honest truth about what it has taken to build what you have built, which is incredible. And you know, you’re still so, so young, like I think it’s, it’s, it’s really exciting to see the trajectory of where people will be, you know, not just where they’re at today, but where’s the trajectory of go in 10 or 20 years. Like it’s nothing but extremely exciting. So where do you want people to go, Rebecca, if they want to connect with you, if they want to follow you and, and just plug into what you’re doing.

Thank you. Yeah. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook, Rebecca Louise fitness, head on over to my YouTube channel, Rebecca Louise, you can get a free 30 day program or just go to Rebecca hyphen, the wheeze.com and all the details are right there. Check out the podcast. It takes grit, the book. And yeah, we have we have just an amazing gear coming up. We’ve got new transformation programs, you know, new features coming to the app and it’s just going to be an amazing 20, 21.

Love it, love it, love it. We’ll put links up to all of that. Rebecca Good luck to you and your organization and your team. I know we’ll be seeing you around the brand builders group, community, and our events more and more, and just really appreciate it and wish you the best. So we’ll, we will look forward to watching and monitoring your progress, tune into Rebecca Louise fitness. That’s it for today. Thanks Rebecca, for being here all the best.

Ep 117: Dynamic Speaking and Scaling Joy with Dan Thurmon | Recap Episode

Hey, welcome to the recap edition of the influential personal brand podcasts, Rory Vaden, coming to you. So low, a recap in this Epic interview with Dan Thurman and I’m covered for AIG to on this one just by myself. But you know, I’ve known Dan for so long. It’s, it’s fun to get to go back and listen to this and kind of analyze and break it down and give you my top three highlights. And there was so much going on in this interview. You know, we released these, these podcasts also on our YouTube channel. It’s actually not on the Rory Vaden YouTube channel. It’s on the brand builders group, YouTube channel and,

And you know, usually some people like to watch cause you see the facial expressions, but this one was, was crazy because there were a lot of visual components of it, which, you know, we tried to talk out for you for you visually, but anyways, so to dive in to the top three takeaways. So first of all, I thought the mindset to pivot and, and these were three mindsets that were my big takeaways from Dan and from that interview. And, and the first mindset is the mindset that it takes to pivot. And I loved the actual content that he was sharing, which is from his, his actual content that he, he teaches in his virtual keynotes, this idea that when things become uncertain, we can falsely feel uncertain about everything. And it’s like, when there’s change, not everything is changing. There’s a couple of things that are changing, but, but we sort of have this, if we’re not careful, we have this mental mushroom that we allow ourselves to do, right?

It’s if you’re not dissed, if you don’t have a disciplined mind, if you allow your mind to just run, it’ll run towards the negative it’ll it’ll, it will become just over-exaggerated and, and consumed with all of the, the, the negative possible outcomes. And I remember talking about this with Lewis Howes one time when I was interviewed on his podcast, actually the most recent time I was, I was on there and we were talking about how with successful people, there’s still always like this fear, no matter how successful you get, there’s like this fear that you’ll not just that you’ll fail, but that somehow you’ll fail so much that you’ll just become like homeless living on the street is like this, this deep rooted insecurity that drives someone to be so successful is always there. And it can get so out of control that like you just, when something goes wrong or doesn’t work out or you don’t get number one, or you’re not perfect your mind immediately freaked out and was like, Oh my gosh, I’m going to end up homeless.

Right? And it’s like, you’re so far away from that. Even though, even though things might be changing and you, you might not be winning or you’re just dealing with uncertainty. And, and I thought that was super powerful that, you know, Dan was reminding us that even though you’re uncertain about some things, you don’t have to be uncertain about everything and you can have faith in your, in yourself. And, and you can have faith in your ability that your entire life you’ve had to learn how to operate a new environment, your entire life. You’d ha you’ve had to learn new ideas and new skills and, you know, maybe work in new jobs or a new markets or verticals or industries, and you’ve been able to figure it out. So why do we become so scared and overwhelmed and frightened and stressed and anxious. When we face a little bit of change in our life, knowing that our entire life up to this point, it has been embracing change and learning new things.

We have the ability and the knowledge to figure it out. And if you can just embrace that, you’ll be able to pivot faster. And that’s going to put you in a, a much better position. So that I think was the first thing for me, was the mindset to pivot and, and what that looks like. The second mindset was, is really the mindset to up-level. And this one was more watching. It wasn’t so much what Dan said, like it wasn’t in the content. It wasn’t when he was like teaching his content, it was just kind of watching and processing his demeanor and looking at how quickly, you know, this is someone who’s made a career speaking in front of live audiences, and that’s like been the primary way that he’s made money. And that business model of the live keynote speaker has been disrupted. I mean, it’s been more than disrupted.

It’s been killed. It has evaporated. It has vanished. It, it went from, this is what I knew in my whole life to it disappeared overnight. So as much as like any business model the, the model of live keynote speaking in the physical sense in, in front of live audiences disappeared overnight. There’s no events, there’s no gatherings worldwide. It has shut down. Travel has virtually shut down. And so here you have somebody Dan, that that’s been his primary business, which, you know, we understand, we appreciate it. It’s, it’s always been a huge part of our business. But it’s actually, it’s become less and less over the years. It’s just been fewer engagements at higher fees, but still a smaller total of our proportionate revenue, because we’ve moved into more of building, you know, building a real business kind of outside of, of just being on stage speaking.

But that’s a, that’s a real scary thing. And what did he do? What has he done? He immediately turned to going, all right, I’m going to go virtual, but I’m not just going to do virtual presentations. I’m going to figure out a way to Uplevel the virtual experience. And he’s got a five camera shoot, three sets going on in his house with this ability to create this variation of, you know, the types of just kind of the type of energy in which he’s presenting with. And of course, if you watch, if you actually watch this video of the interview on our YouTube channel, you’ll get to just see. I mean, it’s, it’s worth going to look, even if you don’t watch the whole thing, but just kind of fast forward and see how this set changes. And it’s amazing. He just like walks out of the screen and into another, another screen, it looks like he was walking into a new room, different camera angles.

And it’s, it’s a simple bit of technology, but instead of being paralyzed and terrified and, and, you know, just scared, which would have been understandable, it is understandable. A lot of, a lot of speakers are still reeling with trying to figure out what the heck they’re going to do. He just said, how can I, how can I go virtual? And how can I, up-level the experience? How can I take this performance and this production to another level which people haven’t seen. And so we quickly did that. And, and so the mindset there, which he also did talk about is to go respond to uncertainty with new education, with new personal development, with new growth of, of, you know, he didn’t, he didn’t have all that technology before. He didn’t know how to do all that. He figured it out because he was leaning into the change and going great.

I’m going to, I’m going to use this opportunity for change and challenge and uncertainty to learn something new and, and to, and to prove that I have faith and confidence in myself, that I’ll be able to figure it out by investing and, and, and growing and learning and saying, you know what, there’s a way to learn how to do this and that. I mean, gosh, that is why I think brand builders, part of why we’re growing so much is because people are realizing that online. I have to be able to do business online. There’s, there’s, there’s no other way right now to really be steadily growing your business. And if you don’t have those skills, if you don’t have that knowledge, if you don’t know how to write copy, if you don’t know how to build funnels, if you don’t know what a words should be on a webpage, if you don’t know how to run a or to run Facebook ads, or if you don’t know how to do webinars, if you don’t know how to create content, if you don’t know how to manage social media, if you don’t have systems for training a staff to like, keep up with all this content production, you need to get going and you need to get going fast, sweetheart, like you’re, you need to get on it.

And I think, you know, God just had his hand on us in terms of guiding our life to be sitting in a place to provide this education to people in such a systematic way. And maybe that’s, you know, if that’s you, then, Hey, you should check out brand builders. We do it as good. If not better than anyone in the world, I really believe leave that. But maybe it’s not your personal brand. Maybe it’s some other part of your business that you need to learn. The point is is, and what I took away from Dan, both in what he said, and what he meant is that you respond to uncertainty with personal growth, with personal development, with education, with learning, with knowledge to go, all right, I’m going to adapt. I’m going to grow. And that’s not what most people do. I mean, let’s be honest.

Most of us want to hang onto the old days, rather sit around and commiserate about how things used to be and about how I wish it was the way it was and how, how hard it is been on me versus going, I’m going to educate, I’m going to indoctrinate. I’m going to learn. I’m going to develop. I am going to grow. And knowing that as I do that, as I push myself to, to develop and to grow and to learn out of that will come confidence and ability in the face of uncertainty, which of course is true because there’s always opportunity. Every problem creates new opportunity. And anyways, I just thought Dan modeled it. And you know, he talked about it and totally up-leveled his game to the point where, when I put on my virtual keynote speaker had I’m going crap. Like, you know, he, he sat in a new bar for what that looks like and, and going, man, we need it.

We need to figure it out. We got to find ways to up our production and, and up the exp up the virtual experience for our virtual keynotes. And so anyways, what are you doing, doing to learn? How are you growing your knowledge? How are you leaning in to change and uncertainty and instability with more education and more relevant education? And that was my, my second takeaway is, is the mindset to, to Uplevel. So that’s different from the mindset to pivot and just be safe is then adding onto it. Another layer, which is, which is the mindset to, and then for my third takeaway, I’m actually, you know, I wrote this down, it’s the mindset to serve the mind set, to serve. And this was the money line. Like this was the, this was the, the, the focal point point for me of the entire interview. And he said, yes, I can scale giving and helping on a global level. That is the type of success. I don’t even have to monetize.

Think about that for a second. If I could make worldwide impact, that is enough significance and value in my life that I wouldn’t even have to monetize it. And so that’s why he’s doing it. You got this 50 year old guy on Tik TOK going viral because he’s not, he’s not trying to figure out how do I suck the most money out of my audience. He’s figuring out what can I do that would give value to them? What would entertain them? What would educate them? What would encourage them? What would inspire them? What would teach them? What would, what would bring them a bright spot in their day, in a difficult time? And we say it, we talk about it. We say things like, you never feel fear when the mission to serve is clear. But, but when you look at people like Dan, they’re living it, they’re doing it.

And it’s, I think it’s like how many ultra performers do you have to hear? Talk about that extreme level of commitment to service before you really believe and adapt and buy into the idea that I’m going to serve my audience. Like that is what I’m trying to do. I will let the money follow. I will trust that the money will follow. I’ll have faith that the money will follow. But what I’m going to focus on is not the money. I’m going to focus on the impact. I’m going to focus on the service. I’m going to focus on making a difference. I’m going to focus on delivering value to people that I’m not even paid for. And, and once that, once that switch flips, you can’t be stopped, right? Like once, once that heart change really happens, like once that, that, that, that, that flip, that, that evolution wants that maturity.

Once, once that commitment happens, you can’t be stopped because you’re saying it’s not about the money. It’s not about the followers. It’s about making a difference and you can turn on your camera and reach across the globe in one button, right? Like it’s never been easier. So if you really want to make an impact, prove it, turn on the microphone, turn on the camera, pull up Canva and make a post type of caption. But like, if that’s what it’s about, do it make an impact and, and trust and know that the money’s going to follow and look, you know, Dan’s one of the highest paid speakers in the world. And, and he doesn’t know what life is going to look like in a post COVID area. That’s all still like sorting itself out. But you see him living that, that commitment to service in the midst of uncertainty and, you know, and you watch it from outside and you go, of course, he’s gonna win.

He’s focused on how can he, up-level the experience for his customers? How can he pivot quickly? How can he make a difference? Eventually the money’s going to follow that. And that is why we say we serve mission-driven messengers. It’s not that we don’t care about money. We do care about money. We, we we’re good at making money. We’re we, we, we consider it important, but it’s about the impact in the mission first. And, and trusting that if I serve enough people for a long enough time, I will eventually make money. If I serve enough people for a long enough time, there’s no way I don’t end up making money. But when all I focus on is money, it’s hard to, I’m not focused on service. And so when the money’s not there right away, I give up because it’s not fair today. And tomorrow and next week, and next month and six months, and maybe in a year, maybe even two years, and you go, I’ve been doing this for two years.

I’m not making money. Yeah. Eventually your going to burn out your going to give up, compare that to the person going I’m just here to serve. I’m just here to give value. I’m here to Uplevel the contribution I’m making to the world. And I can’t be stopped because there’s no measurement. That’s going to slow me down. Like I’m only going to make more impact. I’m only going to reach more people, whether it’s one or 1 million or 100 million, I know I’m going to, I’m going to naturally reach more and more people. And I I’m, I know the money is going to show up in some form or fashion, and that’s a switch that you need to flip. And, and it’s, it’s something that you have to flip regularly. It’s, it’s kinda, you know, it’s like what we talk about in the take the stairs book, success is never owned.

Success is rented and the rent is due every day. And the commitment to serve is never owned. It is rented and the rent is due every day. You have to wake up every single day and make that conscious decision that I’m putting impact first. And I’m all in, on making impact. And I’m going to trust that somehow some way, if I’m all in, on providing the best level of service and making the biggest difference, I can, I’m all in on that. And I’m all in on having the faith and the trust and the confidence of knowing it will eventually work out.

And that is how it is. That is always how it is. You just got to wake up and remind yourself of that every day, whether there’s one person watching or 1 million or 100 million, but if you can be making an impact, that’s something that it’s like, you don’t even have to monetize, but you can, and you will. And we’re going to show you how so thank you for hanging around here. Hope you enjoyed the interview with Dan. I loved it. You had listened to it yet. Go back and listen to it and just see if you can catch the mindset of what it takes to pivot to up level and to surf. We’ll catch you next time. [inaudible].

Ep 116: Dynamic Speaking and Scaling Joy with Dan Thurmon

Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for tuning in to listen to this interview. We are so excited to bring you this information and wanted to let you know that, Hey, there’s no sales pitch coming. From anything that we do with this is all our value add to you and the community. However, if you are somebody who is looking for specific strategies on how to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and we offer a free call to everyone that’s interested in getting to know us and is willing to give us a chance to get to know them and share a little bit about what we do. So if you’re interested in taking us up on a free strategy call, you can do that at brand builders, group.com/summit. Call brand builders, group.com/summit. Call, hope to talk to you soon on with the show. Dan Thurman is one of the reasons why I almost gave up my career as a keynote speaker. He is extraordinary.

I mean he provides amazing content you know, just kind of like real, true thought leadership, but in the most acrobatic and entertaining way. And I use the word acrobatic because he does backflips. He juggles, he throws knives. He can do handstands on podiums, like and I know that most of you are listening to this, but if you don’t know this, we record all of these episodes as videos and we put them also on our YouTube channel. And you know, I don’t know for sure, but like, there’s probably going to be some elements because Dan is so visual that you, you may hear us reference and usual bit too to the visual and you might go check out our YouTube channel and you know, we’ll post we’ll post a link to that. But so Dan is incredible. I mean, he is a hall of fame speaker.

He’s also a former president of the national speakers association. I’ve known him for years. Although I wouldn’t say we’ve been like super close friends. We have the same friends that we’re super close to, and it’s not for any other reason than we just both been out there running a gun. And, but I mean, listen to his client list. Okay. So when I talk about the kind of work that he’s doing and the, the kind of companies that, that he is speaking to it’s extraordinary. So you’re talking about the Coca-Cola’s of the world bank of America, Proctor and gamble, Marriott Johnson and Johnson, Walmart crafts, state farm Honeywell. I mean, these are some of the world’s biggest and brightest companies that have brought him in to speak. The reason, not the only reason, but one of the reasons that I invited Dan to be here is because he has been around in the speaking world as a very successful speaker for a long time.

I mean, he was inducted into the hall of fame almost 10 years ago. So and he has also, you know, he spoke on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan. So he’s been around a long time, but he’s doing some incredibly innovative things. So he’s checks like all the kind of like classic marks, you know, he’s got a great book called off balance on purpose, but he’s doing some things. So first of all, on Tik talk, him and his teenage daughter, Maggie are like tick tock celebrities. They have multiple videos that have been viewed more than 30 million times. Their Tik TOK channel has over a million subscribers. And so it’s so innovative. And then one of the other things that he’s doing is the way that he has pivoted to his virtual live stream events is just extraordinary. And so we’re going to, we’re going to just talk about how to stay relevant in a kind of like COVID world as a speaker and all, all things. How do you get to be Dan Thurman except, you know, we’re not going to do pushup and handstand tutorials, I don’t think, but anyways, welcome to the show, Dan, glad to have you,

What an intro of Rory that is so amazing for your compliments. One quick update because things change quick, you know, that Maggie’s following on Tik TOK is now over 3 million. And so yeah, so things just keep growing and growing, man. It’s, it’s a lot of fun though.

I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s really crazy. Like, you know, and I’m serious about that. Like the first time I saw you keynote, I was like, why would someone hire me when they could hire this guy? It was like you know, I have that thought every week, not very often, but every once in a while I have that thought and I was just like, you know, that was it. And then, and then just seeing you guys crush it on social media is kind of the same thing. And I mean, you’re an entertainer. I think there’s a, there’s a big part of your background, right? Like you just been in entertainment, but so let’s talk about tech talk for a second. Since we can kind of dive in, what the heck, like, how do you get 3 million followers? Like why, what are you doing? Like, what is your strategy? Because most speakers, I think, a what a waste of time, and you guys are just crushing it. So like, what’s your mindset there a little over a year,

Year ago, like most people never heard of Tik TOK, but Maggie had. And so she got involved on the platform. She had a good background and foundation because for a year she had been in high school, a brand influencer and advocate for Hollister. She was hired on a team and a project to promote endorse, launched new products and things. They, they really educated her in many ways about social media and Instagram. It was really Instagram based on that platform in terms of how to work for for Hollister that ran its course and the program ended, but she already was quite marketing savvy, had grown her Instagram following a good bit and heard about Tik TOK got involved in, tic-tac had a couple of her videos that did well. And then she had a, she asked me, dad, do you want to do a dance together?

We did this dance that to a Fergie song that just went completely bonkers. We went to the gym to play racquetball. And by the time we got out of that session, it had over 300,000 likes or something stupid like that. And then it just kept going and going and going that elevated Maggie’s platform. And, and she continued to do her own thing, but the things that we did together, what was interesting is it became very much about our relationship. We have a very genuine, loving natural relationship which filled this need in Tik TOK. A lot of people responded saying, I wish I had that in my family. I wish my dad would do these kinds of things with me. And so in a very careful way, we’ve, we’ve managed her brand to she’s now in college, a freshman in college and envisions this as her career. Obviously I’m not going to be a part of that journey for her whole life. And so we we’ve grown the dad daughter stuff in dance and comedy. And of course the variety of skills that we do with juggling and acrobatics and unicycling and silks, and, and kind of found different ways to introduce all these skills.

And very quickly, I just have to say, like, you know, it’s a little bit frustrating that you like God was dishing out talents. And I think there was like a glitch in the system and just like dumped. I mean, you guys are incredible, like the dancing, the acrobatics, the juggling, I mean, that’s really, it’s really, it’s entertaining. It’s really entertainment, entertainment in the most pure sense.

It’s, it’s so fun. And it’s a part of who I am. It’s just by my language of my love languages, kinesthetic movement. I love to just do things, learn things, develop skills, always have. That’s kind of how I channeled my hyperactive energy. And now you and I are a lot, a lot the same. But as she got closer to college, what we began to do is, you know, obviously she’s branching out more with her own videos and her own skills. And, and now it’s probably like 90 10, like where she’s doing Mo mostly her content I’m involved in our channel here and there. We had a trip to LA last week to see some other influencers. And so we did some more together during that. I have my own tech talk where I only have like a half a million followers on mine, but but, but it’s, but I’m still thinking about Tik TOK relative to my brand, because this is gen Z. This is that next level audience. And what I’ve sort of learned is that they, they are very receptive to what I have to teach and to the way that I can teach it, it’s just a different vibe and a different connection. So I’ve been very careful and very fascinated by how I could develop that relationship, that relationship with a new, a new generation all over the world. And it’s extraordinary to wrap your mind around.

Yeah. So like talking about, thinking about the generations for a second, you know, we had Jason Dorsey on here just a few, a few episodes ago, talking about generation Z and all of their research and stuff, you know, on the one hand people kind of go, you know, how do you make money from tech talk other than like brand deals and stuff. But if you’re going to be like a speaker or an author or a, or a personal brand, and do you have some type of a monetization strategy or is it more of like, this is street credibility? Or is it more of like, these people one day will be the book buyers and the decision makers. And so I want to connect with them or do you just, or is it just like, I’m just there because it’s fun. And I think it’s fun to do, like, how do you approach that?

So I’m not trying to monetize it in any direct way. Although I have had speaking engagements that came in through Tik TOK or coaching relationships that started because people found me on Tik TOK, people who find me on Tik TOK, find me, go to my LinkedIn and see my business side. So, so it’s definitely feeding that pipeline. But so much of it, Rory is I know that something great is happening as a result because it’s pure and it’s, and it’s real. And, but my intention is only to give and to help. And if I can scale giving and helping and filling a need on this level, you know, that’s a type of success. I don’t even have to monetize. I would be, it would be so satisfying and wonderful to know that I, that I could contribute, especially now to a world where so many kids are facing depression and bullying and, and all this frustration.

And I’ve been challenged at early early ages to feel like they’ve got to have it all together when really they could, they don’t and they shouldn’t, and they can just be themselves and find themselves and they need joy. They need, they need, as Maggie’s tagline to her whole brand is go make someone smile, literally just go make someone smile. So there’s a lot of ways that you can make someone smile. And the best smile that we can have is when we appreciate ourselves and who we are. And so that’s really my intention with it is that yes, these will be perhaps future clients. It’s nice to have that brand elevated. It’s good to get recognized in Starbucks and in, by Jenny’s eaters, which, which happens regularly now. And, and it’s pretty bizarre cause it, it doesn’t matter where you are, right. It’s not geographic, it’s, it’s a, it’s a bigger type of celebrity, which I’m obviously not accustomed to, as a keynote speaker, I’m accustomed to going into the room. Nobody knows who you are. Right. Right. And then, and then when you’re done, you, everybody knows who you are and you get that like temporary celebrity. And then you can go back to the airport and blend in again and be completely anonymous. So it’s not that I’m super famous. I’m really not, but it’s, but it’s been fun to, to, you know, get recognized here and there.

Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, I think I don’t want to skip over what you said there about, if you could just scale giving and helping at this kind of a magnitude, this sort of a level, that’s a success that you don’t have to monetize. And I feel like that mindset alone is the thing that ultimately is the cause and the source of the people who break through the wall, what we call breaking through the wall and sustain longterm, regardless of its Tik TOK or Instagram or email marketing or speaking or writing books. And just to like, hear you say that, you know, I want to ask you about some other stuff, but I don’t want to skip over that because that, that is such a big, a big moment. And that’ll probably be one of the biggest things that I take away from this, which I, I love,

It’s easy to say it’s, and we’ve always said that, that we’re in the business of giving and helping and serving, but, but, but really a huge part of our brain is always trying to work the revenue and work the business and grow the business and, and measure ourselves and compare ourselves to our competition by what we’re doing and how busy we are and how much we’re making. And so for me, the challenge of COVID was, you know, obviously the dates fell off the calendar and when you identify yourself as a speaker, who’s out there doing live engagements and there certainly are no, there’s no events, there’s no engagements, there’s no stages. There’s no audiences. Now we’re faced with the question, well, who are you now at? Or who are you really? And so very, very early on the shift became, I’m not sure how much money we’re going to make this year.

Yes, we’re going to, we’re going to pivot. We’re going to do our thing. We’re going to serve our clients. We’re going to grow our business, but let’s change that measurement to how many people can we help this year, because one, thing’s for sure in the supply and demand world point that the demand for our help and our services has never been higher. People need it more than ever. So if, even if it’s just giving it away, that’s what I want to do because I think it’d be interesting if we got hall of fame awards for the biggest impact that we made in the world. I pray, I certainly wouldn’t get one of those. But I I’d love to.

Yeah. And that’s, that’s such a great perspective. And social media gives you that ability to like, if you really want to change lives, like if it really has nothing to do with money, like turn on your camera and talk to the camera and change lives. Like there’s never been an easier way to, to, to access people. So I want to come back to the technical a little bit. What are you doing with reels? So now Instagram has released the reels functionality, which is basically like their answer or competitor of Tik talk, you know? Are you reposting the same videos to reels? Are you not yet paying attention to reels or like what’s yeah. What’s, what’s going on there.

Yeah. It’s not something on my radar right now. I I’m aware that it’s happening, but, but Maggie has I think it kind of told me that her generation kind of thinks it’s it’s not there yet in terms of what it could do and the capabilities you know, so, so that’s not something we’re doing. We are posting on Instagram and we’re posting on, IETV sort of my weekly coaching videos, which get a very modest impression. I think it’s, it’s nothing like the scalability of tick-tock for me. But I’d be very curious to know more.

What is your just for the purpose, what’s your Tik TOK handle and Maggie’s, do you mind throwing that out so that people,

So Maggie’s is Maggie Thurman, T H U R M O N. So just at M a G, G I E T H U R M O N. And and my, my ticket Tik TOK handle is actually Maggie’s dad one, two, three. So, so this, and this was a very early decision because I didn’t. So for me, what was happening with tick-tock was so special as a father and in our relationship. And I didn’t want to, in any way feel like I was trying to, you know, chase her clout and, and trade off of that in my own business. So I’m just, Maggie’s dad one, two, three, which is kind of funny. And it sticks because even though now I’m doing more of my own content on my channel, that origin story is still really special to both of us. But you know, all along, I really saw that as more our thing than my thing.

I love that that is really, really, really cool. So yeah. Okay, great. So we’ll put links to that. Maggie, Maggie Thurman at Maggie’s dad, one, two, three. So I love that. So you mentioned COVID here a while ago and the pivots, and I think most people are pretty aware of this. I mean, if for those of us that earned a large percentage of our ordinary income from getting on an airplane, flying to an event, being in front of hundreds of thousands of people coming in as a stranger, as you say, you know, delivering this whatever 60 or 90 minute performance slash teaching, and then COVID happens. And all of those events disappear. I mean, like literally all of them disappeared and almost literally overnight, they were gone. What so separate of this tick talk, social media thing, you also have done some amazing pivots with your, you know, what let’s call it, your corporate brand or your classic brand, or your classic message even down to the technology and the studio that you’re using. And again for you listening, you’re not going to have the benefit of this, but can I ask you to do a virtual tour for, so the people watching the video can literally see what you’re about to change rooms. Like, like just give us the, the tumor, if you, because when we jumped on here, you like stood up and walked to a different room and like the whole thing changed. So can you just give us like a virtual tour of your studio so people that can watch the video can see what’s happening here?

Absolutely. Okay. So the first thing to understand is my brand, which is that elevated experience. People hire me because they want more than just a speaker. They want mind, body, and spirit kind of all in connection. And my method of teaching is very physical, very, very visual. And so we realized early, we wanted a space where we could do that very well. So we have three different sets I’m currently sitting in the library, which is where we really get into that heart connection. More that spiritual connection, driving stories, home, closing points, that type of thing. But then we needed a physical space, which is right over here. So stepping just to my right, this is the stage, this is our action room.

Okay. And for those of you that aren’t seeing this, I have just, he stood up out of his chair, walked, I don’t know, three feet to the right. And the entire screen changed. And we went from looking at a library to now we’re still on a zoom meeting, but now I’m seeing a completely different backdrop with a podium and a teaching screen.

Right. So, so for example, you see the podium and you see my, my teaching screen. And you mentioned the book off balance on purpose. So in many ways I’ve been preparing for this moment this year and teaching in my contents, very, very congruent because we’re more off-balance than ever before. Moving through these changes with uncertainty, just kind of unfolding and forth in front of us for the foreseeable future. And so one of the ways I teach that here, I’m moving to the lectern is you know, this is like our foundations, which all of our foundations, how we work, we teach how we parent, how we eat, how we shop, all of it’s been rocked. And so the question is, how do you position yourself on top of uncertainty? Okay, here we go.

Going for it. This is crazy. He is vertical, complete handstand on top of a podium. This is so corroborate.

You got to see us. I’m not, I’m not balanced. I’m balancing, I’m making constant adjustments and corrections. And after all that effort, I’m still right here. So we just cut to a second camera, but here’s the message balance. Isn’t what you get balance is what you do this year is about developing the skills to make those adjustments in real time, even though your foundations are rocked and unstable, which you can do, if you bring a greater sense of purpose to the moment that you’re in and manage and use these skills, which we teach to help you leverage the positive aspects of uncertainty in order to, in order to change and in order to grow. So that’s,

That’s awesome. So, so this is where, okay, so hold on. I want you to, I gotta interrupt you because I want everyone to know what just happened. So he just, first of all, the last angle we were looking at, you were doing a handstand on a podium and there was two camps. There were two different camera angles on that shot. So it was the second setup, like a second stage with two different camera angles. And now you’re just walked another, like, I don’t know, three feet to a different direction. And now you’re in a different, what, what do you call this set? Okay.

This is our classroom. This is really where our we teach and break down ideas. So if you think of mind, body, and spirit, so this is where we would really focus on your mind and how we teach you ideas, but then break them down into strategies. Like for example, on this Flipboard here we talk about this is actually a different work for a client that we we’ve been working on right now. But let me move to one of our recent phases. We can interact with this and we can artfully go through different content in different phases. One of the things we talk about quite frequently is this spectrum of certainty. Like I talk about, you know, managing the positive aspects of uncertainty, which you can do because really all you ever get is some certainty. You know,

Just again for everyone that’s listening. So now he’s in his teaching classroom set and there’s another camera angle. So it just shifted. So you’ve got two camera angles here going,

And, and what, what I want you to know is that even with the, the other set, you had the low angle where I went into the handstand, we switched to a different camera here, we have this forward camera, and then we have the second camera, which is how you, where you see me, right. And it’s also a closer shot, a more personal shot. The point is, it’s not extraneous, everything’s intentional. And if you have different cameras, but they’re not for specific reasons, then it’s really the same as pacing a stage without any purpose. And so everything has to be well thought out and used in a strategic way. And so, okay.

So one other, sorry, real quick, before you go into the spectrum of certainty, because I think both your content is relevant to us, as well as how you’re delivering the content is super relevant. So I apologize for the interruptions, but like, are you looking at, do you have tally lights, like a camera lights that come on to tell you where to look or does the camera switch when you look to the camera?

No, I have Stephanie and Shan. Right? So, and that’s been another incredible thing this year. Rory is that so often we’ve, we’ve been on our own on the road doing our deal, and it’s been very much a solo effort. This brought our whole team together. My wife Shea is incredible and is a visionary and a video producer and developer in her own, right? So she brought a lot of understanding in terms of how to do this and was able to source the equipment. We leveraged fellow NSA, friends, like [inaudible] and others who, who helped us understand what they were doing and really cut our learning curve in terms of making this happen. So Shay’s here and she’s operating a camera and and kind of running some things in the background producing Stephanie is the, is doing the camera switching. And so we’ve, we’ve practiced enough and she’s watching me attentively. So when I, when I look from this camera, I do it very abruptly and she sees that and then she’ll, she’ll make that change. So it’s, it’s really a matter of me being clear with where I’m looking and, and then she knows how to read that. But you know,

And direct, you’re directing the camera shots basically by a definitive gesture to move where normally in a TV studio, somebody, the director is moving the tally light, the little red light, and then you follow that. You follow it, but you have it in reverse.

And what I’ve learned is I just have to be very clear because if I’m kind of like wandering around, she’s got no idea where to go. Right. And so it’s just, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve developed that skill over time,

But I love what you’re saying. That’s a, that’s a very SIM, that’s a similar parallel to just wandering eyes in an audience versus deliberate eye contact to like different people in the room. Right.

And, Oh my goodness. I can really go into that. We could do a whole tutorial on how to, how to teach to a camera which is maybe we should

Have you come back and do another one of those.

Yeah, exactly. But but the point is, we’ve learned a lot and we’ve really used this period of time to our advantage. And so this concept of a spectrum of certainty really is about three steps, three strategies that we teach to claim your certainty. So we got to claim what is certain, everything that we know already, still counts. We just have to use it differently. We have to redeploy what we’ve gained all these years and say, how does it still serve us? Or how does it serve us now in maybe even a better way than it did before? And so, instead of when you feel uncertain about some things, you can feel like you’re uncertain about everything, and it’s not true. There’s a lot that, you know, and it all counts and serves you. So you really have to claim it. You have to embrace what’s unknown because you, and I’ve seen a lot of speakers, authors companies, clients, who who’ve just spent enormous amounts of energy saying, well, when will this be over and how are we coming out of it?

And when will we be back on stages? And it just, all this mental exercise on really what is right now, not only unknown, but on knowable, right? We can’t control that. But what we can do think about your future as if it’s not just uncertain, but it’s unfolding, it’s unfolding and you have this role you’re playing in terms of how to shape it. But there’s just some things we’re not going to know until we get to the next chapter, like reading a great book or watching a great movie. You don’t have to know the ending to enjoy the movie to be engaged. And, and, and along the way we can create more certainty than the way you create more certainty is by testing yourself and improving yourself and saying, regardless of how everything else is working out, I know for sure we’re going to be better on the other side of this because of what we’re choosing to do now. And this studio is really our response to putting that into action. Right.

Right. Yeah. I, I mean, I love this. So can you walk back to the library? Is that, is that doable? Yeah. Amazing. And so then you just move over. So these are three, literally three different physical setups you have in the space. Then the room that you’re in this, isn’t like a virtual background shift at all. This is

Three physical spaces, five cameras. So there’s only one camera in here, which is all I really need, because again, this is about pouring into your heart, you know, and, and just really connecting eyeball to eyeball.

Yeah. So, so it’s a five camera shoot. And then the, in terms of the other technology, you got two people to run the room. You said Shay and Stephanie are both there to like help you operate things when you’re doing it. And then so you obviously have a switcher. So this is just like an alive event. You have to have a switcher to switch camera feeds. So you have a switcher. And then is there any other big pieces of technology that’s going on? I mean, must be some program that you’re running to like S or is it just different camera feeds into a school?

The beauty of keeping it with the physical switcher and we’re using an ATM system, a black magic ATM, which has a total of eight different camera inputs. We’re only, we’re using five for cameras, we’re using one for media. So in other words, we could start our show by taking a video and intro video that brings it in or cut to a video. I have, I have a scene where I’m in the action room and I finished something and I’m talking about, you never know where your next challenge is going to come from. And literally at that moment, a rope drops from the ceiling and I’m like, okay, well, I’m going to, I’m going to go for it. And meanwhile, watch this video. And I literally climbed the rope out of the camera lens, and then we cut to video. And so it’s, it’s really like producing a TV show, but the equipment of the cameras, bid cameras, a good switcher, a good computer to drive it, the S the software, because it’s hardware, you don’t need a sophisticated software program.

Usually there’s another device that flows out of the switcher for the interface to whatever platform you’re using. And what we found is depending on the platform, whether it’s zoom or go to meeting or black or whatever, it could be a Microsoft teams this afternoon, we’re doing one for a platform we’ve never done before. It’s a proprietary thing with each of those setups. And also with each of the updates, because there’s always new security settings and things like this, you really have to always, re-examine how your equipment’s working and make that happen. So it’s not a one and done set it and forget it. This is something you have to keep learning as you go.

Wow. but more or less you, you got, you got, you got a switcher, you got some camera and you got inputs from the from the cameras. And it’s not, you know, it’s not impossible. I mean, you guys are pulling it off. This is incredible.

Well, thank you. But I, and I also want to point out because I know that that a lot of people starting out are thinking, well, sure, like if I had a studio and a set, then, then everything would be easier and I’d be much more engaging and whatnot course. And the point is, you know, that’s the trap of this business is that comparison to what others are doing or what they, what you think will be necessary. And it’s not, it’s not necessary. There are so many of our speaker friends who are, who are doing something so much more simple and are still having incredible success because they know how to connect with an audience. And they’re bringing relevant content, which is the whole key. I mean, if you think about like an X, Y axis, this whole business and success and brand is about relevant content and then your engagement and your experience, and, and not just, not just what, you know, how, what, you know, really fixes the problem, applies to your audience and are you delivering it in a way that they can really absorb it, learn from it, remember it for a long time to come.

And so you can do that in any number of ways. This is just one of the answers. This is the answer that works for me.

Yeah. Well, this is so extraordinary. And, and I would, I would just, you know, I echo that point and emphasize that it’s not about the technology or any, it’s like, it’s your mindset to go? How can we serve? How can we adapt? How can we pivot? How can we be off balance on purpose as you say, and make the most out of this. And and it’s fun, you know, like I just, I really love it. You’re, you’re what a great way to showcase you, living out your message and your whole team coming together, and, you know, the family business of your wife and your daughter, like it’s just really, really cool. So Dan, where do you want people to go if they want to connect with you and like find out more, and man, if you’re booking virtual keynotes, like don’t bother calling Rory Vaden, just call Dan Thurman, just like skip past us contact Dan. And w H how do people connect with you?

Sure. Just it’s super simple. Just go to my website, Dan thurman.com Dan Thurman, T H U R M O n.com. It actually loads at the moment to our virtual page, but there’s a lot of content and resources there too, as well as our weekly coaching series. So maybe you’re running a team and you’re really looking for something that you can use to help them recalibrate their mindset. There are some videos on my website that can serve you and conserve them. And by all means, please help yourself and use those and spread those as you will.

So we’ll put links there to Dan thurman.com as well as to Maggie and Dan’s Tik TOK profile. So you can see this as lots and lots of fun. My friend, we just appreciate you and your mission and your heart to serve people. And just make the most of the talents you have to make the world a better place. And that totally shines through. And, and we wish you the best.

Ep 111: The Foot Traffic Formula with Stacy Tuschl | Recap Episode

RV: (00:06) Hey, it’s the Influential personal brand recap edition. Although it’s just me this time I’m filling in for momma CEO. AJ who is out today and I’m going to be breaking down my new friend, Stacy Tuschl interview, which I loved. And here’s why I loved it. I loved it because more, probably than any other interview that we have had, she talks about the intersection of digital marketing, marketing, online marketing, in other words, and offline marketing, this intersection between the offline world and the online world, which is where the magic happens. It’s it’s not about either, or it really is about both now, specifically. I think more of the angle that she takes in her business and in the interview, if you didn’t listen to it, go back of course, and listen to it. But, um, is she’s really teaching online marketing strategies for brick and mortar businesses. But if you listen closely, she’s really teaching both just online marketing and offline marketing, which is the story of my life. RV: (01:25) That is the story of our companies. It’s not free traffic or paid traffic. It’s both, it’s not, uh, offline or online. It’s both, when you’re launching a company, when you’re building a personal brand, you have to do everything you can possibly do to get the word out about what you do, right? Like it, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t mean you do all the things at once. It means you, you, you know, obviously if you’re one of our members, we teach the brand builder journey. So we teach a specific sequence and how you build this. But the thing you got to know is it’s, it doesn’t matter how advanced you are, how big you are. Like we have to over the course of time, master as many marketing strategies as we possibly can, like build in as many as, as we, as our team can handle and that we can, we can run effectively. RV: (02:23) And that is just important, right? It’s, it’s important that you know, that it’s important that you hear the truth, that nobody built a business on just going viral. And nobody just got lucky where people just showed up. Like that’s not a strategy and it’s not the truth. The truth is that every great personal brand hustled, they built one channel at a time and then the next, and then the next, and then the next all as ways of reaching out. And I think that’s just, you know, something that we can never, we can never hear enough of. Right? Because when you look online and you go, Oh my gosh, like I don’t have the followers that she has, or I don’t have as much engagement as he has, or my videos aren’t as cool as hers. That’s what we look right. That’s, that’s the thought process that we have, but you, you can’t compare your chapter one to somebody else’s chapter 25 and you got to remember that, right? RV: (03:31) You can’t look at what Dave Ramsey’s doing and be like, Oh my gosh, why? You know, like I’ll never be able to do that. Well, sure. You will. It might take you a while though. I mean, it’s taken him him 30 years, but he’s been slow and steady and consistent, and you can do the same thing and that’s marketing you all. Like it’s a, it’s a grind, it’s a hustle. It’s a battle. I mean, I I’m reminded of, you know, shark tank, you know, shark, shark tank has all these famous investors. And you would think, how do the sharks have a company that fails? Like, aren’t they famous enough that they can just like, you know, make a video post about anything and it’ll just turn into success. And the answer’s no, they’re not like it helps tremendously, but they can still fail. They, the companies still fail because, uh, you, you need a marketing system, you need a marketing plan, you need a marketing strategy. RV: (04:32) You need mechanisms that reinforce your message and are constantly working to, to tell people about who you are and about what you do. And that’s, that’s duplicatable. That’s, replicatable, that’s, that’s something that can grow all this other stuff, you know, going viral and all that. That’s just luck. That’s not something you can, you can reproduce. That’s not what you want to build your company off of, even though it’s worth aspiring to do that. So anyways, it was a great interview for that reason. I’m going to give you my three highlights, but that, that was the message, I guess, that was on my heart for me. And for you of just knowing that, Hey, this it’s all online and offline and we got to do everything we can do to tell the world about what we do. And that’s the truth of every successful business and successful personal brand. RV: (05:26) And so Stacy was a good reminder of that, but, um, all right, so here’s my top three takeaways. So first, first of all, she says directly in the interview, my traffic comes from three places, Facebook ads, Google search, and our referral program. Bam, like there, she is sharing her secrets two decades here of a successful brick and mortar business of where her traffic comes from. Facebook ads, Google search, I E search engine optimization, I E Google ads and referral program. So here’s my first question for you. How many of those three things do you have running in your business? Facebook ads, search engine optimization and Google ads and a referral program. It’s possible that you have zero. And if you’re not experiencing the kind of traffic that you want to be having, it might be because you don’t have any of those three things, things running. RV: (06:31) Now we teach all three of those things. Facebook ads, Google. We would break apart into two. We would call search engine optimization. One part that’s free Google. And then we, we, we have Google ads, which is paid traffic, which, um, specifically YouTube and, um, Google ads, which are both the Google ad network. We would actually kind of treat those as two separate things and then referral program, which we would call affiliate marketing. It’s just another word for that. Um, all four of those traffic sources we teach in our event, high traffic strategies. And there’s a reason why now that’s a phase three event and you go, well, Rory, why would you wait all the way until phase three brand builders group has four phases. We have three, two day experiences in each, each phase, right? So this would be like event number nine out of 12. RV: (07:24) And people say, well, Roy, why do you wait that long to teach traffic? I mean, isn’t traffic important. Yes. But if you don’t have, if you don’t have clear positioning and you, you don’t have a clear offer and you don’t have a clear business model and you don’t have your revenue engine, what we call your revenue engine set up for all your lead capture and all your funnels traffic is, is worthless. Um, but when, once you have all this stuff built and you go, bam, let’s go light up the traffic, the traffic ways, um, three of the six that we teach in our high traffic strategies event, you know, sh she’s doing the same thing. So there you go. Like you’re looking for the secret, like there’s the secret, like that’s what to do, um, how to do it is a different story, but that’s what to do. RV: (08:09) Facebook ads, search engine optimization, Google ads and referral program. And how many of those do you have set up? And if you don’t have any, or you only have half of them, well, the good, the bad news is that’s probably why you’re not seeing the traffic you want. But if the good news about that is, Hey, there’s a lot of room to grow. And, and, and it works, right? You’re not, you’re not yet doing the things that other people are doing that get traffic. And that’s why you don’t have traffic. So that’s a good thing. You’re, you’re clear, at least if you’re listening to this episode, you’re, you’re clear on what will drive traffic. Um, now there’s a whole bunch of things that we do for free traffic. And then our favorite traffic of all is what we call get paid traffic. So this, this category, Facebook ads, Google ads, and affiliate is in what we call paid traffic. RV: (09:02) We have another form of traffic that we teach in phase two, which is another reason why these are in phase three for us, which is free traffic. Um, and then our favorite traffic of all, which she actually didn’t talk about is what we call get paid traffic, which is where you get paid to be put in front of someone else’s audience, uh, which is the number one traffic source we have, of course, for us, it’s speaking, um, where you learn how to get paid and get put in front of an audience, which is amazing and book deals. But, um, anyways, there you go. That’s, those are the things you need to be doing. If you don’t have traffic, that’s why, why you don’t have traffic. You’re not doing those things. Um, and the, when is important, that’s what we would add to it, right. And brand builders group. RV: (09:47) So anyways, that was really edifying for me just to hear her go, okay, we don’t have a brick and mortar business, but even in a brick and mortar business, that’s what she’s doing. And that’s powerful. All right. The second thing is that she said brick and mortar is faster. In other words, offline marketing is faster. I believe that is true. What, wait a minute, Roy doesn’t brand builders kind of specialize in, in, in teaching like digital marketing strategies. Yes. We also specialize in teaching offline. Why? Because funnels and traffic and social media and podcasts. These are slower, longer term, more scalable solutions to traffic, but they are slower. So they’re more scalable. And, and in the longterm, they’re, they’re more valuable, right? Cause there’s only so many phone calls you can make in a day. Maybe not. I maybe wouldn’t say more valuable because you can build a team of people, but from you personally, as a one person, as a one man band or one woman band, you can only make so many phone calls. RV: (11:01) But remember our background, I knocked on doors for 80 hours a week for five summers. Then I tell them marketed in corporate enterprise sales. Then we did business to business sales for 12 years in our former company. And then we did digital marketing. And so that’s something I want you to know, like if you’re just starting out Facebook and Instagram and you know, funnels probably isn’t the fastest path to cash. It’s not what we teach. We actually have a, uh, in our virtual training, even for our virtual members, the very first training we put people through is what is called the fast cash, uh, the fast cash formula. And we talk about offline marketing because it’s people that, you know, it’s, it’s your customers, it’s your friends and family getting referrals from people that you know, and your clients. And it just people who trust you, that’s the fastest path to cash funnels and ads and, and, and social media and podcasting and publishing books. RV: (12:08) Those are all great things. They’re amazing things. They’re, they’re important things. They’re life changing things, but they’re longterm things. They’re longterm things, right? If you need to go sign up top 10 customers tomorrow to pay you a thousand dollars each, and you’re just starting out, getting on Instagram is not the fastest way to do that. You gotta get it through your, your friends and family from referrals and from your first clients, even if you do it for free so that you get testimonials and you can get referrals. Offline marketing is the fastest path to cash. Typically in the short term, unless you’re a celebrity, unless you have a huge following, then it’s, then it’s different. But for most of us, offline is faster. You can go knock on someone’s door. You might have to knock on 50 doors to get one person to buy from you, but you can get a credit card in a day versus, you know, it can take six months a year to get a funnel launched in some cases, depending on how much, you know, what you’re doing. RV: (13:10) Um, but asking your, your brother-in-law for a referral, emailing someone and being on a phone call tomorrow, you can collect a phone, a credit card by this afternoon or by tomorrow. So you work your offline relationships, your offline relationships are just as important. Um, and especially in the short term, you know, brick and mortar, I mean human humans. And by the way, those of you that have done, like if I speak in front of a live audience, we might see a 30% conversion. But if I do a webinar funnel, we might see a 3% conversion. So it’s a trade off. Now the good news about a webinar funnel is that we can have an infinite number of people without adding any time in my calendar. So, uh, a one to 3% conversion works as long as I have enough cash to last for six months while we get the thing built and launched and tested and tweaked, but you’re gonna see lower conversions online than offline. RV: (14:11) And it’s going to take typically a longer runway online than offline. And then finally, the last thing, this was so simple, um, was she just said, and this was just powerful, but she said, you have to scrap how you used to do things. And instead ask, how would I do things if I would just starting today in 2020? Right. So what I used to do, you know, it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant unless it’s still relevant, right? Like doing something because that’s what I used to do. That’s not a reason to keep doing it. The reason to do it is to go, isn’t the best thing to do today, IR, regardless and separate of what I used to do. But so many people are living in the past going, well, we didn’t, we’ve never done that. That’s never worked. I don’t know how to do that. I w I, we never used to do that. RV: (15:09) So I don’t know how to do it. Great. Learn how to do it. Right. The question is not, what did you use to do? What you used to do is irrelevant. All that matters is what do you need to do? What do I have to do right now? What do I want to do? What do I have to do? And I have to do, I have to learn whatever I have to do. And I have to do whatever I have to do, regardless if I want to do it or like to do it. It’s, it’s kind of what my mom used to say. Entitlement, you know, is, is interesting because enjoying it, isn’t a requirement of doing it, enjoying it. Isn’t a requirement of doing it. And that is true when it comes to marketing. So it’s, it’s what do I have to do more than, what do I want to do? RV: (15:58) It’s not, what did I used to do? It’s what should I do today? And some of those things from the past can still work and other things you need to let leave them behind. And in a lot of cases, you need to reinvent or supplement your traffic strategy with some new skill sets. And you can do that. And you can learn those. Some of those things right here on these podcast interviews, you can learn a ton of them from our team at brand builders group. But no matter how you do it, you got to pump your message out there into the world as fast as possible in many, as many outlets as you can keep up with. Uh, so that people hear about you because excellence is never an accident. People don’t accidentally find you and you don’t accidentally grow your business. So online marketing and offline bring it together. And that is where the magic happens. We’ll catch you next time. Bye. Bye [inaudible].