Ep 277: How to Build Your Business with Radical Confidence with Lisa Bilyeu | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:55):
Anytime I come across someone who has sold their company for a B billion or has made a billion, it grabs my attention. I have to admit not because I want anything from them. It’s just like at that scale, you’re talking about somebody who has done something real, real big, and that is what Lisa BIU did as the co-founder of quest nutrition with her husband, Tom Bilyeu, who I have recently become, I guess, friends, acquaintances of, of ours through a various number of different things, not the least of which is Lisa’s recent book launch, which is what we were just talking about here and had a chance to interview her on and, and to give you access to her, which is pretty awesome. It’s not, not easy to get access, you know, sometimes to, to people that are, are high profile like that.
RV (01:48):
And I, I loved it. I have loved my interactions with Lisa and Tom. There haven’t been a ton of ’em, you know, little messages here and there. That was probably the longest dedicated conversation. I had with Lisa about her content specifically, and, and I, I had never really heard the full story from her. I had interviewed Tom years ago on my old podcast that we sold a few years back, right. When they were started, but never really have had a, a focus conversation like that, like just did with Lisa and man. She’s awesome. Like I started had fallen her on social. I mean, she’s spicy,
RV (02:48):
And we come across a fair number of ’em actually at brand builders group. We’ve we’ve had a few of ’em on our podcast. Jamie cur Lima is another friend that comes to mind. We interviewed her, she sold her company for a billion dollars to L’Oreal. And that was also amazing story. And actually Lisa and Jamie are friends. So you know, small circles, it’s a small world especially I think the, the more successful you become the smaller the world, the, the world even gets. So I wanna share with you as part of this recap, these three of my takeaways from this specific conversation that I just had with Lisa, which are things that I’ve, I’ve never have never hit me in, in things that I’ve heard her say or, or learned from her before. And so I’m excited to share those, share those with you now.
RV (03:36):
And the first one is so simple, but this is so important and so powerful. And so edifying to what we teach all of our members. And, and it’s, it’s such a small thing that you probably missed it in the conversation, but that’s why I want to come back right now. I wanna highlight it with a big mental high. I wanna make this a salient point to go. Don’t miss this. This is huge. It has huge implications. It’s so small though. It’s so easy to step over this and you’re gonna, you’re gonna think I’m silly, cuz I’m making such a big deal out of this, but I’m telling you, this is one of those things that you will here. You won’t notice it. And yet this one little tiny tidbit can change everything for you. And here’s what she said. She said, when we first launched our product, which was quest these health bars, she said, we sent them to people for free.
RV (04:41):
We sent the, we sent influencers free product and it was fascinating to me because those of you that are in our, you know, monthly members of ours or you do private brand strategy sessions with us, you know how we’re saying all the time, the fastest way to take someone from a complete stranger to lifelong fan is a one hour presentation. And so what you have to do is you have to go speak for free. And this is what I did. I spoke 304 times, 304 times. I spoke for free before I ever got paid 300, four times. And we used this analogy in inside of our, our train inside of our course, like our official coursework. And we talk about chicken on the chicken, on a stick, right? Because when you go through the food court, they give you a piece of chicken on a stick, which why do they do that?
RV (05:34):
Because if you’ve never heard of me, you’re not familiar with me. If you don’t know my product and as it relates to your personal brand, if I don’t know who you are, if I’ve never seen you, I, I Don recognize you, letting me sample you for free is the fastest way to make me a believer. And so you have to give your product away for free. Like you have to give your service away for free. And it’s like, when people first start they’re, they’re so nervous about like, no, I, I, I have to sell this to everybody. And it’s like, when you’re just beginning, it should be the opposite. It’s like, you’re just begging people and you’re giving it away for free. And my, of Damon, John I heard Damon John, one time, we shared a stage at an event about a year ago.
RV (06:23):
And, and Damon was telling this story about how he got LL cool J to wear FUBU. And he just like gave it to him and then took a picture of him wearing it. And it was like such a pivotable point in their journey. And like, you have to, you have to give away your service for free. The newer you are. And the lesser known you are, the more that this matters. And it’s so simple, right? And we overlook it. But when you don’t get paid in money, you get paid in testimonials, you get paid in feedback, you get paid in credibility, you get paid. And you know, sort of like this, these early test pilots that you can, you can adapt and, and, and modify your offering and you get paid in referrals. So if you’re just starting out, you might have to flip this switch and, and, and go from like, how do I sell everybody to instead going, how can I give this away for free?
RV (07:17):
And just get a lot of people, just get a lot of people hooked on this. And, and that applies whether you’re selling, you know, FUBU as a clothing line. And you’re Damon John, whether you’re Jamie Kern, Leman, you’re selling makeup, whether you are Lisa BIU and Tom BIU and you’re selling candy bars, or whether you’re a personal brand, trying to get someone to book you for a speech or hire you for coaching. This is our whole model at brand builders group. Like you’re you’re, you don’t pay anything for this podcast. It’s extremely difficult to get someone like Lisa bill, you to, to, to spend this time. Like we spend a lot of money and a lot of energy and a lot of resources trying to bring people like this to you for, and then on social media, it’s free. And then we have all these free trainings.
RV (08:03):
And what does all of our free content do? It drives you to request a free call with our team. We do the first coaching call for free. Why? Because we know that if you don’t know us, you’re not familiar with us. We don’t have millions of followers, but if you, if you hang around long in a, after you go, you know what? I actually like what these people are about. I think I am gonna talk to them. I think I am going to request a free call, which by the way, [email protected] slash podcast. You can request your free call and we do the first free call. We do the first free coaching, first coaching call with everybody for free so that they can get a sense of what it means to work with us and how we can add value. You gotta do the same thing.
RV (08:45):
People gotta sample you. They gotta, they gotta taste your product. They gotta know who you are. They gotta have an experience with you. And so that happens with content marketing. It happens, you know, with speaking, I mean, I don’t speak for free very often anymore these days, but I’ve been doing it for 20 years. But in the beginning, that was all we did. That’s how we built our, our whole first company was an eight figure business. Our whole model was that we sent people out and they would go speak for free in, in offices, like to small groups of five people, people, three people sometimes, and they would speak for free for a chance to earn trust. And, and I just don’t miss that, right? Like, especially if you’re just starting out the earlier you are in your process, the more this matters or the earlier you are in a new product or a new revenue stream or a new business venture, this really, really, really matters.
RV (09:38):
The second big takeaway for me. And this came up several times in the con conversation in several different ways. And you know, I’ve kind of heard of this idea before, but not so sharp and not so keen as when Lisa was talking about this, you could hear, you could hear that this was like a part of their philosophy. Like this is a part of their culture and it hit me cuz I was like, wow, that’s, you know, this is important. I know it’s important, but I’ve never quite, you know, captured it like this. What she’s saying, you know, is, is she said in her words, when she was talking about their nutrition bar, she was saying, how do you make something yummy for people to eat? That actually happens to be good for them.
RV (10:24):
Which actually is good for them. And then later when she was talking about how they started with the, the, this, how they started impact theory and this whole new, this whole new brand and this whole new company, it was basically about this idea of how do we create enter? How do we create content that’s impactful and inspiring and yet make it so entertaining that people want to watch it? What, what a great as what a great it’s kind of like going, how do I create the, the cure for cancer that tastes like chocolate? How, how do I you know, we, we kind of try to do this with take the stairs with my first book which still to this day, of course I speak a lot on and that’s the message of self-discipline and we go, how do we make self-discipline more, more palatable and, and easier, you know, more digestible and, and, and easier and fun even for people to embrace.
RV (11:27):
And that’s really important because there is, there’s the truth, like there’s principles that change lives and there’s truths that make a difference for people. But then you have to package it in a way that makes it digestible. You have to, you have to solve the real problem. Right. And a lot of times that requires work or at least discipline, or at least the unfamiliar, right. To change your life, you have to do something different. But the, the part that’s so inspiring here is in their, in their sense, it was, it, it wasn’t just the physical packaging, but it, it, it was the physical packaging. And then also the taste right. Of the actual bar. So it’s like, how do you take your business? I, and your personal brand, which solves a problem in the world and how do you put it inside a rapper, right?
RV (12:18):
Like it might be medicine. This, this makes me think of, you know, how do you get a dog to eat medicine? You wrap it in peanut butter, right? And so the dog eats the peanut butter and they take the medicine. Or, or you, you do the, you could do this, you do the same thing with kids, right? Like you mix the medicine up inside of something else. So you gotta have the, the transformation in people’s lives. That’s your content like that’s the inside of the book. But then the, the title of the book has to be enticing and your whole branding, your whole positioning. I remember talking to Louis, how one time about photography? You know, somebody asked him this question. I, I was actually, I, I, I wasn’t a private conversation. I was in a room and he was, he was speaking. And somebody asked him, what’s the most IM like, what’s the most important part of building a personal brand.
RV (13:06):
And he said photography. And that blew me away. I was like, what? That’s, that’s crazy. Like what a weird answer. And, and he talks about it because he think the photography you know, the way that he thinks about it is it is, it, it, it captures this energy, the, the, the image portrays emotion and energy, which is what communicates, what the brand is all about. And I was like, wow, that’s deep
RV (14:02):
How, how do you, how do you make it to where it’s, it’s, it’s what they need, but it’s also what they want. And to me, this is sort of the difference between you know, for those of you that are brand builders in finding your brand DNA, where we do talk about finding your uniqueness. We refer to all of that as internal Mar moniker, internal messaging, internal alignment, your uniqueness is internal. But then in phase two, we talk about marketing, which is external, and that’s the marriage of this, right? It’s, it’s sort of like to use the quest nutrition bar since that’s the topic here is going there is there’s the guts of the bar, but then it’s wrapped in chocolate and then it’s wrapped in beautiful packaging. And that’s what you wanna do for your message for your, you know, for whatever your personal brand is like for the, for the most part, success is fundamental.
RV (14:52):
Success is built on fundamental truth. And so you’re finding a way that’s, that’s the art of marketing is wrapping fundamental truths in a new and exciting and enticing way. So I love that. And then the third thing, the third thing was when Lisa said, even to this day, she’s the chief creative officer at impact theory and hearing her talk about her passion for storytelling and movie making and, and video editing hit me hard. And I, and I think I’ve missed the boat here. I’m, I’m quite confident that I have the least not I’m nowhere near the way that sh she thinks in her mind is, you know, like when we create content, I’m going, how do we create useful content? But she is going, how do we edit this in a way to where it changes people’s emotion. If you go back and listen to the recording, she said, what I love about V is you have the ability to change a person’s emotion with video, right?
RV (15:59):
So she’s not just, she’s not just asking the question, what’s the most efficient way to transfer an idea. She’s also saying, how do I transform their emotion? And that is like, almost like science and art, right? It’s going, I wanna, you know, I’m, they’re in the business of, of helping people with great ideas, but it’s not so much that the idea itself is maybe, you know, original or, you know, groundbreaking, at least it’s not, it’s not like they’re sharing things that nobody else has ever said, but they’re doing it a in a way that is in literally inspiring. It moves people emotionally. And, and so, you know, this is, this is where the connection point is for us, where in our world class presentation, craft training. So we’ve got, you know, all together inside a brand builders group, we have 14 different two day trainings, 14 different two day experiences.
RV (16:54):
One of ’em is called world class presentation craft, where we talk about how do you construct the perfect keynote? And one of the, you know, the, the central premise of, of that whole training is that you have to learn to move the audience emotionally. You have to move them emotionally. There’s these things that you, there’s so many things you can do with a speech from the way it is structured to the way that the slides are laid out, to the way you use the stage, to the way you tell the stories, to the way you develop the characters, to the way you, you write jokes and add punchlines to the way that you use your voice, your body, your facial expressions, there’s all of these things. And we go through all of these different techniques. And the reason all of them are there is they are arrows in your quiver.
RV (17:36):
And the objective them is to move people emotionally. But the thing that has never quite clicked in my head like it did listening to Lisa was going, oh, that same level of meticulous crafting that I would do with the speech that I’ve been doing my whole life with speaking is the same amount of crafting and effort and energy that needs to go into video editing. And I’m going, yeah, I I’ve been missed the boat there, right? Like, to me, I’m just going, how do I get someone to like, edit this video and like put a bumper on it and, and some music underneath it, but not thinking about it as like, what is the real art here of what is the emotion we’re trying to create? And how do we use imagery and text? And what’s being said, and voiceover and transitions and all of the things, and you can just tell that how, how much she has crafted and, and how much she, you know, they think their, their team and in their brain.
RV (18:38):
And, and that they’re, they’re doing the art of not just communicating information, but doing it in an inspiring, inspiring way to get more views sure. Of, of course, to get more subscribers. Yes, of course. But it’s deeper than that. It’s to actually make an impact. The reason you have to work so hard at crafting your message is because the more well crafted it is the, the better packaged it is, the more entertaining it is. The more likely it is to get through the, the more likely you are to break through somebody’s defense mechanisms in their walls and these barriers that they put up, and the more likely you’re able to impact them. So, and that takes work and energy and, and craft. It’s not just, you know, throwing something up. It’s, it’s, it’s actually thinking about it and constructing it with, as a gift for the person who’s receiving it, not just spewing out like what’s on your mind, but actually reverse engineering, the construction of your message so much to the extent that it is a gift for the other person on the other end, who’s receiving it.
RV (19:53):
That’s beautiful. That is art. That is personal branding at its finest, far above vanity, far above likes and far above just information. It’s truly being centered on the mission of serving people and changing people’s lives. So I hope that you see a rising commitment from our team and a desire at least to be creating content that is moving and useful and powerful and practical and applicable for you in your journey here on this podcast, every single week. I’d love it. If you shared this episode or any of our episodes with someone who you think needs to see it that you’re checking out our free trainings that we have at brand builders group to.com and then you just stay plugged in until you’re ready to request a free call. And then hopefully our team will get the privilege of talking to [email protected] slash podcast, and then that we get a chance to help you start to craft your personal brand journey. Thanks for being here. We love you. We’re grateful for you. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand podcast.
Ep 276: How to Build Your Business with Radical Confidence with Lisa Bilyeu
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:54):
Ah, I am so excited to introduce you to Lisa Bilyeu . So we’re newer friends, but y’all know that me and AJ, our business partners and AJ is our CEO and my wife and I have been business partners from the beginning. We started as business partners and then a year after we started dating and then we fell in love. And so I love and just admire when a couple can work together. And so Lisa and tom were the co-founders of a company called quest nutrition. And this company grew 57000% in three years. It was number two on the inc 5,000. And then in 2014, they sold it for a billion with a B so a billion dollars. I met Tom the very first time on my old podcast. I interviewed him right after he had the right after the exit.
RV (01:50):
Oh. And then him and Lisa started a brand that you’re probably familiar with. So they, they started impact theory studios. They host the impact theory podcast, the women of impact podcasts. They have over seven and a half million people who listen to this. Lisa has had over 20 million views on her YouTube channel. She’s got over a million followers on social and she has a new book that is called radical confidence. And I tell you, I was just flipping through, I got a, a release copy just recently. So I haven’t read it all the way through, but I was flipping through it. And this is like, it’s an kicking book from an kicking lady. And y’all know I don’t cus very often. So that’s, you know, that’s powerful. So anyways, Lisa, I’m so excited to have you and meet you. Welcome to the show.
LB (02:38):
Oh my God. R this is such a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on.
RV (02:42):
So can you just like tell us your journey? You know, I like just in the little of what I see from a distance is like, you, you started out in your own words, you know, unfulfilled housewife like that was, and, and then there’s this big transformation you become an entrepreneur. Quest goes crazy. I mean, that’s like massive growth. And then you reinvent yourself with impact theory and women of impact. And now you’re an author. So like, can you just talk to us a little bit about why you wrote a book on confidence and how that’s like tied into that whole journey?
LB (03:19):
Yeah, absolutely. So I get asked a lot right now, Lisa, how do you get your confidence? I want confidence just like you and you have no idea, Roy. I was like, are they talking about someone else? Like I would like, look over my shoulder, just thinking they were talking to someone else, cuz in my head I don’t feel confident in head. I have a negative voice that is constantly telling me I’m not good enough. Who do I think I am to dare to go after this, my entire life. And so I think what P what I identified was people saw me doing it anyway and they equated my actions with confidence. And that’s where I started to think about the book, cuz I was like, it’s the fact that I use tools and techniques in order to show up every day to try and be confident to try things.
LB (04:08):
And when I fail, how do I get back up? It’s not confidence is I use specific tools. So that was like, okay, I understand how my journey goes, but what about other people? Where, how are people struggling? And it really is so many people resonate with me saying I was stuck for eight years and you know, what’s happened to the world over these last few years. So many people are feeling that. And so it all comes back down to people say, if I had the confidence, I would do this. And what I realized Rory is we are using that as a way as a, a thing that we think we need in order to get started. And what I started to ask people was, hang on a minute, you want confidence in order to do what? Because people are so focused on, I want the confidence that they’re losing sight of what they’re using confidence to get to.
LB (05:02):
So I say to people and I want people to think right now, what is that goal you have now? Don’t worry about how you feel about getting there, right? Cause confidence is feeling good, feeling good about doing it. Don’t worry about that. Focus on the goal and then come up with a strategy and steps on how you are going to get there. Because if I only went by, do I feel confident? And that’s, if I say yes, is when I’m going to take my take that action, I will still, I would really, I really, really would be right now. The person that is completely unfulfilled, you know, and housewife is just a thing that wasn’t feeling my soul. So that’s just my journey, but I, what is the journey people are on now? And is it feeling your soul? And don’t wait to feel confident to do it because that isn’t the end goal.
LB (05:49):
You want confidence in order to tell your boss, you wanna pay rides. You want confidence in order to tell your parents, you no longer want to study math and you actually wanna be a standup comic. You want confidence to tell your partner, you’re not happy in the relationship, but you want the confidence to do something. So that’s where I just start. And that’s where I wrote the book, radical confidence in order to try and get people out of their own heads about feeling confident to get started and let people, no, it, the most amazing news is that you don’t need confidence to get started. You can actually use radical confidence, which is a set of tools and you can be scared and do it in a way. And now you’re taking control of your life and you are not worried about if you feel good about it or not.
LB (06:34):
You just focused on how do I get to my goal? How do I get to that dream life I want? And that’s the whole purpose behind it. And each chapter gives a very succinct lesson and no BS lesson on this is what I actually had to do to go from being the completely unfulfilled person for eight years to then really living the life of my dreams and all it being the hero of my own life because I was waiting, I was waiting for someone to save me. I was waiting for my husband to come home and bring me some fun and the emotion that I was looking for. And I realized that the day my life changed was the day I stopped waiting for confidence and started to look inwards and say, I can control if I’m the hero of my own life.
RV (07:19):
It, it reminds me, my mom used to say this thing, like you know, I did martial arts when I was really really little. I was, I was raised by a single mom and I was in martial arts and I, you know, would tell her, I don’t like this. I don’t enjoy this. And she used to say, that’s okay, Rory enjoying it. Isn’t a requirement of doing it.
RV (08:08):
They’re basically like each of these different affirmations that you have. And one of the, one of the first ones that you talk about is betting on yourself and the why I wanna bring this up is because I actually think that I personally struggle with this is going all in on yourself, like saying, like taking, taking the, you know, like the, the, the, the gamble. So can you talk about that? Like, if somebody is listening or right now, and they kind of have a dream, they’re like moving in a direction, but it’s like, they haven’t really gone all in on themselves. Like what what’s going on there.
LB (08:53):
Yeah. It want, you know, and so it’s do, do you want to go all in? That’s a thing. Everyone needs to judge for themselves, because for me, let’s take this book for instance, as I was writing the book, I said to myself, okay, what is a result I want to get? And what are the steps I’m going to take in order to get there? And what, and I like to call it no BS, what would it take? So once you’ve laid that out and say, well, what would it take for me to get in New York times? Number one, let’s just say, right? It’s like, okay, Lisa, in order to get in New York times, number one, you have to do 400 podcast interviews. Let’s just say, and I just go, wow, that’s a lot. Is that the life I want? What does that look like? And am I committed to it?
LB (09:33):
Because it becomes a decision. And I don’t think we should beat ourselves up over the decisions we make, but I do urge everyone to make the decision with their eyes wide open. And so in those situations where let’s say worry, you’re saying that you’re struggling with going all in. Are you reaching your goal? Yes or no. And if you went all in, would you reach your goal, looking at it like that, and then saying, what would to take for me to get there? Maybe you’re not willing to do it. Maybe that isn’t the life you want. And I think that being able to look with your eyes wide open is imperative to then go, okay, I’m gonna go all in. And that means betting on yourself because let’s face it. No, one’s gonna freaking fight for your dream harder than you. No one. So if you are not willing to go all in, why would anyone else around you be willing to go in for your dream or your life?
LB (10:21):
And so I also, for me, I like to take away the excuses that I make for myself. So if I’m not achieving my dream, what excuses am I using? Right. Oh, well I, I didn’t wanna work on days. Okay. Well, that’s, it’s not an excuse. It’s a valid thing. Or that’s how I want to live my life. Mm-Hmm
LB (11:06):
And I decided not to go all in, but you gotta identify what is actually holding you back from going all in. Is it what comes with the life that, that, that brings so running your business right? There is no nine to five. You know, if you are expecting your team to work hard and you are putting videos out on a Saturday at 3:00 AM, let’s say right, there is no nine to five, but is that the life you want? So you need to identify what are the things that are holding you back and is it a valid reason or is it an excuse that you’re using?
RV (11:41):
Mm-Hmm
LB (12:04):
So timing was very big. It was just as Facebook was kind of getting hot. And there were multiple things. So more, we created a product that we really wanted and didn’t exist. So my husband at the time, my husband, my husband and his business partners at the time were all building a technology company that was kind of like, oh, he was going out. He was working. He was trying to make, make enough money for us to actually make movies. Cause our background film. So the problem is when you’re just chasing money, he got caught up in the, in the you know, the hamster wheel. So what was supposed to be, he’s just gonna work for a year. I’m gonna support him. We’re gonna earn enough money so that we can make movies turned into eight years of him just chasing money. We forgot our dreams and left them behind.
LB (12:51):
So as we were doing that it re I realized that money doesn’t bring happiness. And in seeing my husband chase money, I was like, I want my happy husband back. So what does that mean? So he went to his business partners. They all agreed. They were unhappy. So they sat down and they said, what would make us happy? Something predicated on passion. And because when you’re just chasing money, it’s empty. And so when they stepped back and said, okay, what are the, what is the product or the thing that we really feel passionate about? Everyone was into fitness. And at the time, I dunno, if you remember protein bars, there was basically two types of protein bars, bars on the market. One, it tasted so good, but it had so much sugar in it. So it was like, it had 30 grams of sugar and five grams of carbs, but they can call it a protein bar, sorry, pro five grams of protein.
LB (13:44):
Or it was the opposite. It literally tasted like soar dust where you have to hold your breath and drink a glass of water as you’re chewing it. And so it was like, okay, well, what if you can make a protein bar that is actually shelf and taste wonderful. Now of course, every expert, every expert said we were nuts. That protein bar would’ve been made already. If it ex if it could be done, there’s a reason why that protein bar doesn’t exist. Did you know there’s 1400 protein bars on the market currently, who the hell do you guys think you are? You guys know nothing. That’s all the feedback we got.
RV (14:20):
Wow.
LB (14:21):
But we all believed in the product and we believed that can we overcome the hurdles that were ahead of us? So that’s the big thing is do you believe in the product and is it possible in your mind? Forget about what other people and not just, is it possible? Are you, you willing to keep pushing to see that when you hit a roadblock, are you able to get past it? So there were so many multiple things. And then that last piece was the marketing. Was that when everybody else was like, the prestigious is going into stores, if you’re in stores, it means that you are official. If you’re online. I mean, this is 2010. So just to give context, people like online meant that you were lame selling your product online meant that you were pretty bad and that no store would ever hold you.
LB (15:09):
And so everybody was like, we need to sell in stores. We need to sell in stores. And my husband who just has, he understands marketing and human nature. And he was just like, well, shouldn’t we do, what’s convenient. Like online is where we don’t have to pay a third party. Right. And there’s a whole thing about if you sell to stores and it doesn’t sell, they ship you back and you’ve invested all this money and it’s, it’s just bad for business. So my husband was like, no, we were selling stores. And we will make the people eating it believe by proving ourselves and let the people speak. And now obviously that’s what everyone does, right? Social media. And it’s like the influence of the people that had the most voice back then no one was doing it. So the idea behind find authenticity, giving product to people and be asking them for their honest feedback.
LB (15:58):
So what we would do is we would, if with every single product, we had this little piece of paper that said, please, if you like this bar, please talk about us. If you hate this bar, please talk about us. We want truth. And we were one of the first companies to have these letters. So what we ended up doing is so many people, cause it was a brand new product that so many people wanted, but no one had, we were selling online. So we were actually marketing to the really, really experienced people. The people that understood nutrition to a, a high, a high level. And then we just used the trickle down effect. So we were sending them free products. If they really believed in us, they were telling the people that were following them, the people that were following them were the fitness junkies, the fitness junkies, who were like the real, like the, the trainers and the hard school people. They were hearing them. Then they loved the product. They were telling their clients, clients were hearing, they were telling their friends. So before you knew it, it became this wildfire of everyone and their mothers were eating quest bars because they had heard it through people speaking about it. So it was the real accumulation of having something that is hot and new, a product that doesn’t exist, exist. And in the true freaking leaf that you are gonna work and bust your to make it happen and succeed.
RV (17:18):
And you guys sent so just to catch that. So you sent free bars originally to influencers. Like that was like the beginning of influencer marketing, even right there.
LB (17:29):
It was, we’ve had two bars cause we had two flavors and literally we had zero, but we were making bars just to send out to people for free. And so we had a budget and we said, how much can we afford to send out us and the business partners, how much can we afford to send out on a weekly basis? And what is the letter we’re gonna have in? Are we gonna follow up with them and see if they got it, see if they like it, see if they have any friends that like it. And it was just free. It literally was free, free, free for free. If you like it, let us know if you hate it, let us know. And because of that, it becomes a brand that you trust. And so all of that contributed to the new way I think of, you know, marketing and social media and things like that.
RV (18:15):
Well, and you also like with impact theory. Okay. So when I hear about the start of impact theory real quick, because so then you do this, you build this consumer package goods company, like you’re doing you’re, you’re, you’re selling bars. Then one day that’s done, it’s all over. And then you start all over again. And but even like what you do now, you give away free. I mean, you’re like giving away content for free hooking people on that. So like, you didn’t go back into making movies. You guys jumped into the whole personal development space. So like what, what was the thinking there on starting pack theory? Did you know, by that point, did you know you wanted to do it? Did you know, you wanted to write a book one day and you’re like, okay, we gotta build the audience. Or like that’s a, you know, a whole new level, a whole new chapter.
LB (19:01):
Yeah. So the reason why I really wrote the book is I spent eight years not following my dreams, not trying anything new, being scattered, make a start on anything. And now, because I so learned that lesson, I just committed and promised myself, I would never go the rest of my life, not trying new things that excite me. And so I just try things and see if I like it. And giving ourselves the, the space to play is so important. So at quest, when we built the bar and the, a lot of it was, we were creating content behind it. So we started the YouTube channel when other products weren’t doing YouTube channels. And so what we were doing is we weren’t making the bar about us. We were making the bar about the consumer and then what the consumer could do to it. So we started the cooking show that blew up.
LB (19:47):
We started a transformation show that blew up. So cause we were making it about the people and it’s where my experience was. It was about making content. And so when I started to learn at quest and I was helping build our shipping department, I realized the opportunity of the social media side and our marketing, our head of marketing at the time just had that vision. And so I was like, let me build the studio. Like I really, I wanna like try. So I went in, never done it before. And my first task was literally build a kitchen set. And so I just figured it out. And as I was doing it, it still tapped into the love that I had of movie making, which was using visual visuals and all your senses to impact someone. Right? So that’s what film is to me. You use music, use edits, use action, use character, use lighting, all this to make a person feel a certain way.
LB (20:39):
And you have the ability to make someone feel amazing about themselves. You have the ability to make someone cry. Like, just think about that for a second. You could, how many, you know, sad movies are there, but you can change people’s emotion with video. And I just loved that form. And so we still took the core of what my husband and I believe in. And we started to do content and that’s where he, he started to do his show inside quest. And that was really the catalyst of bringing will people on and talking to them about mindset that led us to the idea of wow, true transformation, like actually changing someone’s life. Isn’t just about impacting the body. It’s about like my mom, my mom, as quest was getting bigger. My mom was getting heavier and heavier and more and more in hell. And as I was trying to just fix it by throwing money at it, which obviously is the wrong solution.
LB (21:32):
But I was like, mom, I can, you know, I can hire you a professional trainer. I can get you a share the words that would come out of her mouth worry were I’m too old. I can’t lose the weight. And all of it. I started to realize it was mindset. It was mindset. And so the people we weren’t reaching were the quest bar were the people that were too anxious to walk into the gym in the first place. It was the people that were too depressed, depressed to even believe they’re good enough to look after their health. So me and my husband, we basically were like, well, are we just playing impact? Or are we actually going to impact people? Because put your money where your mouth is, put your money, where your mouth is. And so for Tom and I, that was where it was like, we started to realize our passion really was behind the creating content side of it.
LB (22:22):
And his business partners wanted to focus on the body. So that’s where I’m like, well, you know, effort, let’s just take a, our money and do something that’s really meaningful to us. So we started the studio, but there’s a big picture. There’s the long vision. So going back to your question is we actually see, these are all stepping stones. So right now we’ve actually got, I think eight, we may have nine, but we have eight fiction stories going on. So we’ve got storytelling, got writers on board. We’ve got artists on board board. We’re creating comic books. We’re putting them up on web tunes. Cause storytelling, everything comes back to storytelling for us. So now with what we did with the quest bar is how do you make something yummy? And people wanna eat it. And it happens to be good for them. How do you translate that into content movies growing up? I dunno what movies you watch growing up, but things like the karate kid or like adventures in babysitting.
RV (23:21):
Oh, I lived on the karate kid girl. That’s now you’re now you’re talking about both my jams right there.
LB (23:25):
Okay. Now think about that. It was so fun. So, but you know how many times I use the analogy as an adult of waxing on and off? Yeah. I probably say wax on wax off at least twice a week.
RV (23:42):
I knew. I like you for a reason and now it all makes sense. Now it all comes together.
LB (23:48):
It’s the analogy, right? Of being prepared, doing things that you may not like for the greater good, good of a vision or a dream that you have. And eventually you get so good, but you have to put in the time you have to put in the work, how many blisters did he get on his? Cause he was freaking waxing. It’s like, it’s the most beautiful metaphor. But as a kid, you don’t necessarily get it. So how do you blend entertainment and impact? So that’s where me and my husband come in. And so we’re like, great. There’s gonna be different divisions to our company. And it’s gonna be a graduation process. The very top of the, the tier is impact theory, university, whereas actually classes and courses that you can take that people wanna study. They wanna take it seriously then below that there’s that our content, it’s still very heady.
LB (24:36):
Right? We do like our interviews where you’re talking about deep things. Sometimes, you know, I talk about suicide with, you know, some of my guests and therapists and things like that. So it’s very deep and hard. And then it’s the next tier, which is entertainment. So it’s like, then, so now you’re just entertaining and you’re threading through the empowerment so that people can meet you where they are. So you hope to empower them with our entertainment, with all the, the storytelling, the movies that we are working on, the, in that we’re working in the comic books that we’ve got in production. And then they take that to the content that is on YouTube. And then they take that to impact their university where now they actually take a curriculum. And then the book is so new to me that it becomes part of that where it’s like a physical guide step by step of what you need to do.
RV (25:29):
Yeah. That, I guess it’s never hit me quite the way that it is now. Just like hearing you sort of riff on this, that like you guys deliberately are making content that’s so entertaining. You would watch it anyways, but it happens to be good for you. Like it’s the same thing you were doing with the quest bar. It’s like, you build a candy bar. That’s so good. You would eat it anyways, but it happens to be good for you. And that that’s basically like what your secret formula is, is mm-hmm
LB (26:09):
Absolutely.
RV (26:11):
I also you know, I think the video editing, like hearing you talk about that of just like the passion for the music you’ll use and the lighting, because it creates this emotional experience for people. So were, were you involved, are you still involved very much with like the production element of like the content and things that you do?
LB (26:31):
Oh yeah. So I’m still our chief creative officer
LB (27:17):
Whose idea is it bring in making sure they’re heard, like sometimes, like we, we literally have massive meetings and anyone’s welcome to bring any idea to the table. If you’re an intern. Great. I wanna hear it. If it’s a hot idea, come on over, you are now leading this project because I, I don’t freaking always have the best ideas. Neither does Tom. So it’s about bringing the most amazing team together that love being with each other that have the same passion and desire for content. And then the, the last final thing is making sure that everyone is aligned on that goal. So for, so going back to your question, I do oversee new content that gets created to make sure that it’s kind of established as this is the field. This is the form. And then we have just an amazing team that it now goes to, but I have those moments that there are certain things that my heart still wants to make sure that I see
RV (28:05):
Mm-Hmm
LB (29:03):
Yeah. It was one of those things RO where everyone kept saying, be kind to yourself, don’t talk, you know, like you need to be nice. You have to always love yourself. And the truth was, I didn’t find that actually was true with me. Like, so then I started to beat myself up over the fact that I wasn’t able to be kind to myself. Right. And now it’s like this like double edge sword and you like, know where to go. So I kind of thought about
RV (29:25):
You idiot to yourself. You moron,
Speaker 4 (29:29):
LB (29:32):
Even get yourself to shut up. So it was one of those. Okay. I, every time I fail, every time I do something wrong, I, I find myself beating myself up. You shouldn’t have done that. And so I was like, okay, how do I, how on earth do I spin this around? Because I recognize it’s holding me back. And I go to I’m very goal oriented. So does this voice in my head help me towards my goal? Yes or no, the truth wasn’t didn’t right. It was just making me more fearful to try new things. It was becoming more crippling for me to start new things. And so just like, I think it’s Tony Robbins that said something like, you know, how can you take the most amazing the worst thing that’s ever happened to you and make it the most amazing thing. So it all comes to perspective.
LB (30:15):
So I was like, okay, I know about perspective. I’ve done enough mindset work to know perspective is very powerful. So how do I use a perspective right now on my negative thought? I love superheroes and allergies and you know, I wear a wonder woman, necklace. I have superheros behind me. So I was like, okay, what if, instead of it being your cryp tonight, it was your superpower. So now I’m using language around it, right. To soften. So I even use cryp tonight and superpower as to step out of the sting of the negative thought. And then I start to think, how can I actually do that? Okay. Thery is it holds me back? So how can I use it to propel me forward? Which is your superpower. Okay. It’s like, what if it’s trying to tell me something, because really when you think about it, a negative thought is actually a ti tied to your ego.
LB (31:01):
The reason why my ego is telling me don’t you dare do that. Oh my God, you’re gonna embarrass yourself. You know, nothing. It’s because it’s trying to protect me from being embarrassed. It’s the ego. It doesn’t wanna get bruised. So if I can see as the mean, girl is my ego, trying to protect me now, maybe what if it was a friend or a family member that tries to protect you, right. Tried to give you advice like your, maybe you shouldn’t try this and maybe they’re trying to highlight something in your life that you are blind to. So I actually flipped it. And I was like, what if this negative voice, this mean voice in my head is my best mate. If she was my best mate, what would I do? Would I, would I try and shut her up and throw her out? No, she was my best me.
LB (31:44):
I’d actually like welcome her. I’d give her a cup of tea. I’d put a blanket around her. And if you can, when your friend is giving you advice, if you trust them, you listen. So I was like, what if I just listened to her? And so what I realized was my ego was actually telling me all the things I was bad at. And she was right. I was bad at things. And so I go, okay, let’s say, I want, I wanted to start my show, this perfect example. I’m I wasn’t comfortable being in front of the camera.
RV (32:12):
You’re talking the women of impact show.
LB (32:14):
Yes. Thank you. Okay.
RV (32:16):
So you’re gonna start that one. Cause that came after the, like, after impact theory started women of impact came later, right?
LB (32:22):
Correct. Yes. Okay. So as an example though, of how you use your negative voice, so getting in front of the camera. So we built impact theory, get in front of the camera like five years later because everyone was urging me to, everyone was like, oh my God, you know, you really impacted me when I heard you talk to Tom about this. So I go, okay, I wanna get in front of the camera, but I’m so scared. Like I literally would freeze up in front of the camera and not know what I’m saying, not know what I’m doing. And the negative voice would come in and tell me, I’m no good. You’re gonna embarrass yourself. Lisa. You’re not as good as Tom. And everyone’s gonna have high expectations of you and you’re gonna, you know, totally mess up. And everyone’s gonna think that you are a moron, right?
LB (33:05):
And I’m, I’m like tech, this isn’t the negative voice. So I go, okay, if this was my ego and I can flip it, what is it saying? It’s telling me, I dunno what I’m doing. And the truth was I didn’t, I wasn’t expert at being in front of the camera. So it was given and me warning. So I go, okay, negative voice. What are you actually saying? He’s like, you need to get prepared because you don’t know what you’re doing. So get prepared so that you don’t embarrass yourself in front of the camera. Mm-Hmm
LB (33:46):
And that, that flipping perspective now has changed everything. So now, now when the voice comes back, cause it’s absolutely still here because I’ve positioned it as a friend. It’s no longer crippling at all. In fact, when it comes up, it gets that like three seconds sting. And then I’m like, thank God. She was, she was helping me because I was about to go in this situation and I would’ve messed up or I would’ve failed or whatever. So I’m very grateful now that I have this kind friend that is warning me of the, is that the traps I may get myself into.
RV (34:24):
Yeah. It’s like it’s very similar to feedback externally, right? Like if people give you feedback, you go, oh, you know, like screw them. They had, they gave me feedback. But so many of the successful people are like, no, that’s the gold or your customers. Like you talked about this earlier with quest where you’re like, if it’s positive, tell us, but if it’s negative, tell us we, he want to know. I heard recently there’s like a little author mastermind group that I was in and somebody was J talking about James clear. And James has, James is not in this, in this group. But they were saying that one of the things they learned from him, he wrote ATO author of atomic have, is sells Bazi.
LB (35:01):
Oh, oh my God.
RV (35:03):
It’s crazy. So what he said was one of the things that he did was he went and looked at the reviews of other people’s books that were in the category of the book he was writing. And he said, but I ignore the five star reviews. Mm-Hmm
LB (35:59):
Mm. I love that.
RV (36:02):
That’s really, really cool. So Lisa, so I, I have one more question for you before we leave, but before we do that, I wanna make sure where do people go to if they, if they want to check out radical confidence, get the book where would you point people?
LB (36:18):
Yeah, thanks. So people can go to radical confidence.com where we’ve actually got a ton of bonuses over there. Or you can go to Amazon or target anywhere books are sold target and Amazon have been just great partners to me or so far already. So I wanna make sure that I shout those guys out as well.
RV (36:35):
I love it. I love it. So all right. I’m gonna, I’m gonna ask you that if there’s, there’s, let’s, let’s, let’s say somebody is listening to this right now and they kind of have a dream. Right. They kind of have it in their, in their head. That there’s something that I want to do, but they don’t feel like they have confidence and they don’t feel like they’re equipped and they don’t feel like they’re smart enough. And, you know, to, to take it back to where you were, where you were kind of like at home and going, you know, who, who am I to do this? What, what, what, what encouragement or advice, like, what would you say if that, if that person was just like sitting here in the room right now with the two of us, and it was just like the three of us talking, what would you say to that person?
LB (37:30):
I think it’s gonna be super important to identify where they are currently and what their belief system is, because everything I’ve spoken about doing, you know, radical confidence, showing up to do the hard work. You know, I’ve got a chapter where I really talk about asking yourself the hard questions and I call it, you know, open the can of worms and embrace the I, because that’s, I think something that holds us back a lot is that we don’t necessarily look at the reality of certain things and ask ourselves, does this feel right? Is this right? And yes, yes or no. And why not? And what am I gonna do about it? So for instance, the example that I like to go to is, let’s say you are married and you find yourself, you’re no longer happy in the relationship and you’re stuck and you dunno what to do.
LB (38:20):
You have to actually ask yourself, is this a relationship I wanna be in? Like, when you ask that question, like, do I have to do I need to leave? And the reason why people don’t ask those hard questions is cuz sometimes we’re so fearful of the answer, you know? Because what if the answer is yes, and now you’ve got four kids, a mortgage and now you have to go, oh my God. Well, does he, is he willing to do therapy? Am I willing to do therapy? If when, if this relationship won’t work, who gets the kids who gets some Christmas, who gets them all weekends or do we do about the mortgage? Like there’s so much that comes with asking a hard question and answering the hard question that so many of us, it’s just easier to go. Well, screw it. I’m not gonna do it anyway.
LB (39:07):
Right? And so that’s where I think we all get stuck over time. And I’ve had so many therapists on my show, worry. So many therapists and women of impact who turn around and say, you have no idea just sticking to relationships for now as the analogy, you have no idea how many people come relationships come on my couch. And they say they did something five years ago or whatever. And I knew it was a deal breakup, but I stayed cuz I thought it was easier. And they like the therapists say they always end up breaking up, but you stay in this period where you fear leaving cuz you fear doing the hard things and the unknown. And so going back to right now, if someone’s feeling stuck, I think it’s gonna be imperative to ask yourself the hard questions on what is you not working in your life right now?
LB (39:58):
Like nobodys take away the emotion of what you have to do about it. You just have to identify what is it in your life that isn’t satisfying and that isn’t making you happy and don’t judge yourself for it. Like when I started, when I realized I didn’t want children anymore. And I went from wanting four kids to not wanting any because I realized how much I loved being in business. I had to actually say, I have to talk to my husband about it. And the, the, just bringing up the subject and telling him, babe, I love you more than life itself, but I never wanna take care of you again. I don’t wanna put out your clothes. I don’t wanna cook for you anymore. That’s a hard discussion to have. And so I stayed there for eight years cause I didn’t wanna have the discussion cuz it was too hard. So I beg people to just look with no judgment and actually identify what those things are cause until you do. I don’t think you can move forward.
RV (40:55):
Mm-Hmm
LB (42:15):
Thank you so much for having me pleasure.
Ep 275: Spiritual Truths About Marketing Bestselling Books with Gabby Bernstein | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:54):
So I knew when I was gonna sit down with Gabby Bernstein, that we were gonna talk about books and book launches and book writing. That was, that was part of like what we decided on the front end that we were gonna talk about. But I had no idea that we would get into such a conversation about spirituality and what the spiritual connection is to launching books. But I’m, I’m so glad that we did, because that was a conversation. If you haven’t listened to it, you have to go back and listen to this interview with Gabby Bernstein. I mean, she’s a number one New York times bestselling author. She’s written nine books. Several of them have hit the New York times list. And several of them sell very, very well. She’s built a huge social media following. You know, she’s a, and she’s a, she’s a spiritual teacher which, you know, like I don’t follow her super closely on that side of things cuz you know, I’m a hardcore Bible thumpin Jesus freak.
RV (01:54):
So I, I tend to follow more of like, you know, pastors and stuff like that. But I like, I like following Gabby, but I thought what was really the interesting, and I’ve always followed her as like a marketer to see what, what she’s doing and she’s just sweet and kind. And so, you know, I built a relationship with her just recently with some of the other stuff we were doing. And then she mentioned, Hey, she is doing a free training for authors on how to become a bestseller. And I said, well, Hey, that’s something we should talk about. Like our community would, would really care about that. And so by the way, if you go to brand buildersgroup.com/gabby, so brand builders, group.com/gabby, G A B B Y you can check out depending on when you hear this you can sign up for the free training that she’s doing.
RV (02:42):
And if you miss the free training, it’ll just point you directly to like whatever the course is. But she’s, she’s you know, doing this free training on it. And I said, Hey, well, we should talk about it on the podcast. And so anyways, we got into this wonderful conversation and, and I guess that that was enlightening for me was never really not so directly connecting the idea of just what a spiritual journey writing a book is. And so I just thought it was really a beautiful conversation. I’m gonna share with you kind of my three biggest ahas, my three biggest takeaway, my, you know, what, what was, what were the highlights for me? And the first one was about vulnerability. So here’s here’s, I’ll tell you, these are the three things I’m gonna talk about vulnerability, responsibility and clarity. These are the three things that came out of the conversation, vulnerability, responsibility and clarity.
RV (03:36):
And the first one is vulnerability, cuz this is something that I’ve always with, which is how vulnerable should I be? Meaning how much should I expose to the world? What is going on in my private life? And you know, just how intimate exactly should we, should we be? And so I’m always fascinated by people who have these really massive platforms, how they, you know, reconcile that issue and, and, and, and use it cuz you know, everyone talks about vulnerability and of course it, it builds a deep, deep, you know, that’s what intimacy is right. Is you’re, you’re sharing these, these intimate details about your life with somebody and, and that’s what makes people feel like, you know, you, but at the same time, people, you know, on the internet, there’s a lot of strangers on the internet who don’t really know you. And so it’s kind of a kind of weird thing.
RV (04:25):
And, and I thought the answer that she gave when I asked her that question, how, where do you draw the line of how much you share was really brilliant? Cause I kind of thought she was gonna say one of two things, which is what most people say is they say, Hey, you should share everything. And just like, you know, you, you know, this is, this is the modern way of the world. Just like, you know, share everything and that if you wanna build fans, you would share everything, which is like, I, I kind of thought maybe she might say that or she might say the other thing, which is you hear a lot, which is like, Hey, these your followers, these are not your personal friends. They don’t need to know everything going on in your marriage and you know, what’s going on with your kids and, and, and whatever.
RV (05:01):
But her answer was so eloquent and brilliant and she didn’t even have to think about it. And she said, share only what you feel safe in share what you feel safe in. And I thought that was just such a, a great thing to go share as much as you feel safe sharing. That’s a really beautiful way to answer that because it’s like, if I feel safe sharing it, then it, it means, you know, that God, the universe, you know, I, I call it God Gabby calls it the universe like, but I think you’re, you’re you have a sense of going it’s I feel good about this. I’m I’m I’m talking about something that I’ve processed enough to where I’m past it. I’m not in the middle of it. And that was another, another really key point that she said, which I thought was a real practical step is she said, make sure you’re able to tell the story safely without being triggered by it.
RV (05:58):
And I think that’s a, that’s a key delineation point is to go, okay, if what I’m sharing triggers me, then that means I’m probably still too close to it. Like I’m still, I’m still, I’m still living inside of it. And so that’s gonna be dangerous because I don’t yet really have the full perspective on what happened, which means some of my emotions might be taking more of center stage or front stage versus like, you know, rationale or logic of, of, of what really it went on. So I thought that just was, was, was really good. Like you know, and it doesn’t give you necessarily a hard and fast answer, which is kind of what I was looking for, but it kind of does it actually gives a, a better answer share only what you feel safe in. And so I think that’s just really, really good.
RV (06:44):
So that’s, that’s vulnerability. That was my, my first takeaway, my second takeaway, which I think is gonna be looking back on this, this, this is gonna actually be my biggest takeaway from this is about responsibility. And when she said launching a book is a spiritual practice like that really hit me. I mean, I, I know that at a distance because I connect everything like for everything I do, you know, I connect spiritually and for me and AJ, like I mean our work is our, is our ministry. I mean that, it, it it’s a, a part of what our ministry would be, but like the, the speak thinking. So specifically that of, of your, of writing a book and marketing a book is a, is a spiritual practice and there’s two parts. There, there are several parts of it. She said, it’s having the first of all, you have to have the bravery to reveal the truth.
RV (07:41):
And that’s really true, right? Is like you gotta have enough faith and enough comfort enough, a confidence security that like what you are sharing you know, is like, you have to be brave to let people see into your mind and see into your heart and see into the things that you’re thinking. And I, so anyways, I think that was really, really good. And then you, and then you also have to establish the worthiness in your own life. Like believing that what you have is worthwhile to say, and I think everybody, right, when they first start out the idea of being an author, every single author has this question of like, well, why would anyone in the world listen to me? Or like what gives, you know, like what gives me the right to, to share this? And I think that’s just the, that’s the wrong way of processing it.
RV (08:30):
You can’t ask yourself who am I to share this with the world? You have to ask yourself who in the world needs this. And if somebody in the world needs this, then that’s why you are experiencing that calling. I mean, this is why we say the calling that you feel to share your message with the world is the result of a signal that is being sent out from someone else. And that person needs you more than you need them. And it is your responsibility to share that message, not because of what it will do for you, but because of what it will do for them, that’s a spiritual practice that that’s powerful. That’s, that’s allowing your, your life to be used. It’s allowing your voice to be a vessel, right? It, it’s allowing your, your, your story to be a conduit to impact and better improve somebody else’s.
RV (09:28):
And, and that is a great responsibility. And so, you know, she said this so directly, which very much aligns with what we say. You have to make it less about you and make it more about the impact that you’re gonna have on other people. And specifically, again, I loved how it was like, you know, really kind of like spiritual and, and, and, you know, like up there, but then it was also so practical the way she brought it down. And, and she said, visualize your reader, like reading your book and visualize the moment of them having a breakthrough in their life. Right. That changes everything. Like, you’re not going, am I good enough? Am I smart enough? Are people gonna think I’m stupid? Like, is anyone even gonna read like this? Like, no, one’s gonna, you know, I don’t, who am I in the world, all these negative self doubts.
RV (10:16):
And, and then when you visualize the idea of somebody, can, can you visualize, can you visualize the idea of one reader, one person looking at the work that you’ve done and saying, whoa, this is going to help me live a better life for the rest of my life. And if so, like, then you have to do it like that is a spiritual calling. And that is just a real powerful thought. It’s your, it’s your responsibility? It’s your privilege? It’s your privilege? It’s your, it’s your pleasure, hopefully, but it’s also your obligation. It’s your duty, it’s your responsibility. And that’s what we believe that that calling that you feel on your heart is the result of a signal being sent out by another person. And so that’s just a different way of, of thinking about it and, and going, gosh, you know, where she was, she was talking about being unapologetic, right?
RV (11:13):
You have to be unapologetic. She said, yes, I have unapologetically put my face on the cover and told the world about the works that I have created. Why not, not out of vanity for myself, not out of a, a, a desire to, to boost, you know, my own self-esteem, but out of a desire to serve and a desire to love and a desire to be useful and helpful to the world around me, which is like the H that’s the highest expression of my life. That what a great way to, to think about it and to overcome, and, and to really put in context what you’re doing when you are writing so that’s responsibility. And, and, and by the way, so just inside of her course, you know, she talks about this. So this is interesting. So I haven’t gone through her course yet.
RV (12:01):
You know, that one of the reasons that we’re, we’re, you know, at least promoting the free training, which again, if you go to brand builders, group.com/gabby Gabby and, and press me enough from a distance you know, I, I know that I have something to learn from her because I mean, the, the woman has sold a lot of books. She’s impacted a lot of lives and she’s got a huge platform and she is speaking to a lot of people, right. So on a practical side, I go, I, I have something to learn from this woman on a personal side, she’s just been totally endearing and just warm, just a complete doll, like and so, you know, and so she’s got this free training, so, but I haven’t, I’ve never gone through her course, but I planning on going through it. And, and I thought, what was interesting is this, this whole kind of module she has on this spirituality and like, you know, and she does meditations, things like that, you know, I would, I hall and prayers, whatever, but she’s, she’s got, she’s guiding people through meditations in terms of the mental component of this, of getting yourself to move past some of these limiting beliefs.
RV (13:03):
Cuz I think that’s really true. We really do struggle. Like most of our brand builders clients I’d say most of them have this issue of they’re worried about self-promotion, they’re worried about healing vein. They’re worried about not being humble. And so it holds them back from impacting people. And so I think this is a really, really big obstacle that we gotta make sense of. And, and, and I think, you know, the approach that she’s taking here is, you know, V very similar in terms of the, the posture, right? It might be a little bit different in of like the exact philosophy, but, but the posture of making it about other people and doing it for them and doing it out of service is exactly the same thing that we teach. It’s exactly the same thing that we believe. And so I’m really curious about that.
RV (13:49):
And, and, and what she’s doing there with those with, with those, you know, those thoughts. So I, I would call ’em prayers. She calls ’em meditations, you call ’em limiting beliefs, call it mindset whatever you call it. It’s, it’s a reality that the way, whatever you think in your own mind about marketing is either going to empower you to reach people, or it is going to disempower you to reach people. And so this is something we have to explore and I’m, I can’t wait to see it. So anyways, brand builders, group.com/gabby, if it sounds interesting, you could, you can, you can check it out. Of course, we have our best seller launch plan training too, and it’s great. And you, and, and you might go, well, why do you promote both of them? Cuz we have an abundance mindset around here and I wanna learn from Gabby and I go, Hey, you know, we do, we want you to learn from us?
RV (14:38):
Yeah, we do. Like we think we’re some of the best in the world at launching books. You know, we sent this, this big email out a couple weeks ago, we’re working with ed millet right now and his book launch. We we’ve helped him sell over 45,000 units. Like mostly he’s done it, but he’s following our system and we’re, you know, he’s a client and he’s following our plan. So like our system works too, but it’s, it’s not a, it’s like, I want more. Right. And there’s not that many people in the world that teach how to launch a book who have actually launched books at the level that Gabby has. So you know, I, I wanna learn. And so I go, Hey, if I wanna learn from her, then you know, some of you probably do too. It’s not a matter of either.
RV (15:17):
Or it’s, it’s a matter of both. So anyways, you could check that out brand builders, group.com/gabby. And then the third thing, which again, is also very aligned with us is clarity is clarity. You have to have this core message the through line. I mean, sh the things that we teach in finding your brand DNA about boiling your entire book down to one sentence, boil your whole speech, your entire personal brand down to one sentence. And I, you know, we talk about it all the time and then I think people come and they go, man, that’s a lot of work. And I don’t know, like I wanna talk about all these different things and it’s like, fine do your own thing. But listen to the, listen to the interviews. It’s not just me or AJ it’s, it’s the Gabby Bernstein. It’s the Donald Millers. It’s it’s the Michael hyats it’s it’s everybody we have on this show.
RV (16:03):
Who’s like making worldwide global impact is saying, you gotta have that core message. That central message it’s, it’s gotta be boiled down and the hardest work you’ll do. And nobody does it, except the biggest, the biggest, you know, brands, biggest personal brands in the world, the biggest influences, the biggest authors and the speakers, cuz they do that work and it’s, and is difficult. But you have to know it because it becomes the litmus test of what is allowed in the book and what isn’t in the book. And, and it clarifies who you’re marketing to and who you’re not marketing to. You know, not every book you write is gonna be a fit for everyone in your audience. Like there’s gonna be new people that your new book is a better fit for that. Aren’t yet in your audience. And there’s some people in your current audience that aren’t a great fit for your current thing.
RV (16:51):
So that’s why it’s like, you’re always evolving in your, and, and you have to have clarity about who you’re trying to serve too many, too many times. We go, well, what’s my purpose. And it, the faster way to get there is not to ask what’s my purpose is to ask, who can I help? Who can I serve? How can I be of value and, and narrowing down? Who is this for? Like, what is the core message and who is it for? And then the practical thing she said again, this was super, you know, the super practical. She said, this prevents you from, from writing five books in one. And that is so true. That’s what happens. Like the reason why the majority of books don’t transmit and sell and get passed on from person to person is because they say a little about a lot.
RV (17:38):
And as my mentor, Eric Chester taught me the very first day. I met with him when I first set out on this journey, like in my early twenties to say, I wanna be a speakers. He said, Rory, don’t say a little about a lot, say a lot about a little, right. And that’s what Gabby’s talking about here. Don’t, don’t try to combine five books into one, take one idea and deep dive on that. That is what makes a great, a great book. And I just, yeah, so I just, I think that, I think that is, is really genius and useful and Edon to all the things that we talk about. So I hope you enjoy this. The conversation is totally different than I expected, but Gabby was delightful and, and sweet, you know, and intelligent and brilliant as she is. You know, and to me, it’s just like, I’m curious to learn from people like that.
RV (18:24):
And, and even though, you know, if you, if you don’t know or you haven’t picked up, you know, we have different spiritual views on the world. I think Gabby’s just, you know, sort of prided herself on just being very like open, which is, which is great. You know, I happen to be clearly a Christian, but, but I still can learn so much from her. And we’re so aligned. It’s like, they’re not mutually exclusive. And, and I, so I’ve learned ton from her. I hope you’ve learned a ton from her. I love following her. She’s so uplifting and encouraging and what an honor to get to interview her. And you know, somebody that has, has impacted as many people as she had and, and for her to share. So generously some of these things that she has learned. So I hope you enjoyed it.
RV (19:10):
I hope you get a conversa. You got to listen in on a conversation between two people that you wouldn’t hear anybody else or you wouldn’t hear anywhere else. Excuse me. Like you would right here. So if you know somebody who is an author, aspiring author wants to be better marketing, send them this episode, send the, the interview of me and Gabby. And hopefully you’ll keep the coming back on and listening week in and week out to the influential personal brand podcast. Thanks for being here. We’ll catch you next time. Bye. Bye.
Ep 274: Spiritual Truths About Marketing Bestselling Books with Gabby Bernstein
RV (00:02):
Well, as sometimes happens, I tend to make a lot of friends whenever somebody is launching a book because we are involved with lots of book launches. And of course, right now, things have been pretty hot and heavy with ed my let’s book launch. And part of that led me to meet Gabby. Gabby Bernstein was in the middle of her launch. And so she’s a recent friend of mine. And I have to tell you, I adore her. She is so sweet and charming and kind. I followed her for years. Like she’s brilliant and intelligent and all those things, but if you, if you’re not familiar with her, she is the number one New York times bestselling author of nine books including the universe has your back super at attract and then be days, which is her newest Oprah’s SuperSoul Sunday called her the next a next generation thought leader. The New York times has referred to her as a new role model and she’s just extremely insightful and warm. And anyways, I somehow suckered her to coming onto our show to hear the, of how she built her writing career and share some of her secrets with us. And so with that Gabby, welcome to the show.
GB (01:11):
What’s up, man? Well, you’re welcoming me and my kitten, Jimmy blue. She everyone’s gonna probably hear her purring in the background because she’s very attached to her mommy and she wants to be in the room with me.
RV (01:22):
Jimmy blue.
GB (01:24):
Yes, girl. She says, hi. She says hi to every blue
RV (01:29):
So Gabby tell us, like, how do you get started as a writer? Like I know, I know you get this question all the time. So that’s part of why I want to ask you is you go somebody’s listening. Did, did you think you were gonna be a writer? Like, did you, when you were a kid, you’re like, yeah, I’m gonna grow up a and I’m gonna, I’m gonna write a bunch of books and, and podcast and like do social media lives and all that.
GB (01:50):
Well, I didn’t know that I was gonna be a writer growing up, but I did have the desire to be a spiritual teacher. And I, when I was in my early when I was about 14 years old, I was the president of a regional Jewish youth group from my temple. And we went all around and we would host these big weekends with hundreds of young Jewish kids. And I was the leader, right? So I was there kind of like this spiritual Sherpa for these high school students and fast forward a decade later, that’s what I started to do as my career. But I, and so I often think that the things that we do by choice is children can often reflect what we end up doing in our, in our career path. I was led to becoming a spiritual teacher, also through my own personal growth journey.
GB (02:39):
When I was in my early twenties, I ran a PR company and was a nightlife PR or firm. I worked really hard to be seen and heard, and ultimately got very addicted to drugs and alcohol, given the nature of the type of work I was doing, where I was doing it. And the age I was in New York city, but also because we become addicts when we’re running from something. So for me, I was running from something I wasn’t even aware of. I became addicted to drugs and alcohol and by the grace of God, I got sober at 25 on my own with, you know, finding a, finding a, a program and not going to treatment traditional treat, just recognizing I had a problem in getting myself clean and sober. But the reason I was able to also get to that level of understanding and awareness was my devotion to my spiritual practice, even when I was using.
GB (03:31):
And so I had, you know, all the stack of self help books next to my bed, my original mentors who are now my friends and, and sometimes deceased mentors, Wayne Dyer, and Louise hay. They were all my mentors even before they were my mentors sitting me sitting next to my bedside. And I, I would even be in after hours parties with people that I didn’t even know, and I’d be pointing to my books and I’d say, I’m gonna be a self-help book, author and motivational speaker. And at the time they’d be like, yeah, good luck with that. But I had the vision and upon getting sober, I got very spiritual. I reconnected to my spiritual roots and I started speaking about it publicly. And the more I started speaking about it, the more I started coaching people, it became very clear to me that I had many, many books in me.
GB (04:13):
And that was the plan and the path I was great at sales. I was, I knew how to sell myself. And I knew I had a very important message to share. And I sold my first book. But when I sold that book, I was really freaked out. It was like that, holy moment of uhoh. How am I gonna write this book?
RV (04:41):
I, I had, I had a very similar, so the very first I, I had a very similar experience. It took us four years to get our first book deal. And I was so focused on like, gotta get a deal, gotta get agent, gotta get a deal, gotta get deal. Like, and then it happened. And I like, when I sat down to write the first word, I had like a, a, a panic attack, I had not even realized the gravitas of what I had just committed myself to. You know, and that’s something I don’t think people always realize is that, you know, when you self-publish, there’s not as much of that, cuz it’s like, oh, if it works out great, you know, if not, it’s like, it’s kind of just you. But when you do, when you do a traditional book deal, there’s real money on the table and a lot of, a lot of lives and livelihoods at, at stake. So that’s interesting. I, I had similar experience.
GB (05:27):
Yeah. And thankfully I was 27. I’ve always had this. And so I was sort of like, I’ll figure it out. And I’ve, I’ve always had that mentality of, if I wanna do this, I’m gonna do it. I can do anything that I want to do. If I don’t wanna do it, I can’t do it. Like if it’s not something I’m excited about and it’s not something that’s passion driven for me. And so I was willing to do whatever it took to figure it out. And so at the time I hired a writing coach and she just taught me how to structure a book and how to structure the outline very quickly. I found my voice as a writer. My, my literary expertise ended in eighth grade. You know, my literary education ended in eighth grade. So I didn’t have any awareness of how to string a sentence together, but I was self-taught.
GB (06:12):
I, I, I wanted to get my message out. And that first book, when look back to the writing, my writing now is much more, much more effective, much more colorful, just a lot better grammar, but you can always have an editor fix those things for you. If you have a message and you wanna get that out to the world, there is a way to do that through a book. And so for me, I’ve written nine books now in 11 years, I think I I’m an excellent writer now, without any experience as a writer, I write very, very vulnerable, authentic stories. I write clear messages, and if anyone’s out there, like I wanna write a book or I have a message I wanna share, but I don’t know how to write or don’t know where to start. I hope my story’s really empowering to for people because I didn’t have anything going for me other than a really important message that I wanted to share and where there is a will, there is a way. And I think that’s the perfect example of that.
RV (07:09):
It is. I, and I, I think I, you know, I texted you a picture. We had a recent leadership retreat of brain builders group, you know, there’s like 10 of our leaders, our all together, and we’re sitting on the beach and two of them had Gabby Bernstein books, two different books of yours. And you know, that like, you know, your impact is, has been, has been really in incredible. Like I talk, talk to me about the vulnerable part. Okay. Like, because this is something that I think there has been a trend in recent years, I feel like more and more for authors to, I guess, share the very intimate details of their life. And to some extent, that’s been really, really healthy for people to see because they read and they, oh, this person’s not that much. You know, that person just like me, on the other hand, there’s been some backlash of life. Oh, well, this person isn’t like maybe who I thought they were or whatever what’s here. My question is, how do you establish the line of what you share and what you don’t. So like is there, and, and this could apply to social media too, but I’ll, I’ll say specifically for books since that’s kind of the thread of our conversation, is there no limit to what I should share with the audience? Nothing. Should I hold back? Or like, what’s your philosophy there,
GB (08:30):
There’s a big limit. I think that you can only share what you are safe in. So if you share about something that’s too vulnerable, still triggering for you, you haven’t fully processed it or moved through it, or you’re kind of good at it, but you’re not a full expert in it quite yet. If it’s something that, you know, if you don’t believe in your own ability, recovery, whatever that may be, that lack of confidence, safety belief is gonna come through in the book. And if you’re too vulnerable in a way that in a time when you’re not fully grounded and steady in your own recovery, that will trigger you and trigger your reader. My most recent book happy days is a great example of that. I wa I wanted to write this book in 2016, I was 36 years old. I just remembered a dissociated trauma. I knew I had to write a book about trauma, but I knew I could not do it until I was on the other side. So the book didn’t come out until, well, I was 42 years old and I had lived a lot of recovery and had done a tremendous amount of work to be safe enough grounded enough and enough of an expert in that experience to really tell that story safely and to take care of my reader at the same time.
RV (09:50):
Hmm. Yeah, that’s a really good, that’s a really great litmus text. So as long as were able to tell the story safely, not be triggered by it. Mm-Hmm,
GB (10:04):
But you don’t have to be like the expert in your field to write what you wanna write. For instance, every book I’ve written, I was an expert in what I knew then, and I look back to my first book and to the today’s book, and there’s a lot of depth. That’s still congruent, even though there’s so much more psychological mentions and, and, and references neuro biological met references my own personal training and therapeutic practices referenced this most recent book than there was 11 years ago. But the depth, the intention, the authentic vulnerability was matching where I was then as much as it is matching where I am now.
RV (10:50):
Mm-Hmm
GB (11:25):
Yes.
RV (11:26):
So why like how do you balance the frequency of writing a book and marketing a book and how do you know, like, do you think that the fact that you’ve written nine books in 11 years is why all your books have done so well, cuz you’re constantly marketing a new book or do you kind of look back and go, gosh, I think maybe some of the books would’ve done better if I would’ve spent more time marketing them before turning my focus to the next one. Like, I’m curious about that, like interval frequency of writing and marketing mm-hmm
GB (12:00):
Well, the number one reason that my books do so well is cuz they’re really good. They’re really good books. And I think that’s probably one of the things that’s overlooked often in the marketing space and when people are talking about like launching and like, you know, making sure you’re buying bulk books and you know, doing all the right events and promotions and keeping your launch going all right, cool. Like maybe you have a big platform. Maybe you can get on the number one New York times bestseller. Maybe you can, maybe you can, you know, sell a tremendous amount of books, but if the book isn’t good, then it’s just that launch. It just it’s it’ll flatline. And you know, I think about my book, the universe has your back. It still just sells tons, thousands and thousands of copies every week because it’s a very good book, you know, are all my books that caliber and some, some are not as great as others in the sense of like, they gonna have that wow power.
GB (12:54):
That’s gonna be so shareable, but they all are good. They all are healing. They all have had a major impact on people and you could meet 10 people and they may all say, yeah, I’ve read the universe has your back. And then one will say, but I also loved judgment detox and I was willing to go there with her or I loved may cause miracles cause of that 40 day practice, you know? So the content has to be really good.
RV (13:56):
Which is what ha, which is what most books do. I mean, there there’s a it’s everything is in the first few weeks and then it just kind of is a slow fade to zero.
GB (14:05):
Yeah, exactly. So you don’t wanna slow fade to zero, so that’s where you write a good book. But I, to answer your question about the cadence with which I’ve written these books and how so in some or early on I would have launched a book and that same week sold the next book and then on the flights of the book tour of the most recent book, I’d be writing that next book. Wow. I do not recommend that to people.
RV (14:33):
It’s insane. I mean, that sounds so crazy.
GB (14:35):
It was so crazy. And some of it was related, you know, some of the speed with which that was happening was related to the, my agent’s advice, you know, like let’s sell the next book, right? When you’re number one, New York times bestseller, it’s a very hot time to sell the next book. Like great. Okay. some of that advice was related. Some of that was related to the fact that I had a book that wanted to come out of me. And so I was ready to, for instance, my book universe has your back. There was a chapter about judgment. And when I was writing that chapter, I was like, oh, Gabby. Like this is a book, you know? And so I needed to get it out because I was like, I was just like sitting on it, you know? So some of it was, it had to come out some of it. And as I got a little bit further along in my literary journey and maybe I’d had about seven or six or seven books out, I actually started to put more space in between the books because give myself a year to write it. So it wasn’t like every year I was putting out a new book, it was almost like every year and a half suppose. And
RV (15:32):
Which is still super fast. I mean, it’s still super fast,
GB (15:36):
So fast, but you know, my most recent book came out two years, so my super tractor came out and that’s actually totally not true. Super tractor came out in the fall in 2020 and then, oh no. So target 2019 in the fall. And I had an audio book that I had come out in March of 2020, and then I hadn’t had a new book until now, 2022
RV (16:01):
Mm-Hmm
GB (16:03):
So, so yeah.
RV (16:04):
So you’re always, it seems like your path has always been like, you see the next one coming already and you go, okay. Like, oh
GB (16:10):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just sold my public. Sure. One of my publish, I, I have two publishers. I publish separately two separate types of platforms, but one of my publishers just like, you know, they’re like, what’s next. And I was like, this is what I wanna write about. And they’re like, great. So I kind of already sold the next one, but I’m not gonna start writing it until the fall. You know, I, I have, I wanna have time because the most recent book just wrote, I, it needs air, it needs breathing room. It needs space. It needs nurturing. You know, you’re like, oh, are you winding down? And I’m like, yeah, the launch is winding down, but the, the movement is revving up.
RV (16:46):
Right.
GB (16:47):
And that’s a important distinction.
RV (16:49):
Yeah. the other thing is your platform is always being built consistent. I mean, you have been someone who has just dominated on social media. And so it’s like, you’re, it feels like every book is like growing the audience grows, the, you know, grows the audience.
GB (17:07):
It is, it’s a big platform builder. Yeah. Books are a big platform builder, because think about it. You know, you take your ideas, you put them into writing. It’s such an easy way for someone to act access you. It’s a great beginning of the customer journey. They, they, they read this, they have an experience with you. They sleep next to you every single night on their bedside, you’re on their bedside and you have this intimate relationship with them. And so of course that really is a platform builder. It’s also a beautiful time when you just get a tremendous amount of, of publicity when you’re in that law launch mode and you give the, the media something to write about and you give the podcast or something to talk about. And it really, if you, if you are in that personal growth business, a book is a V a very important asset for you to have absolutely without a shadow of a doubt.
GB (17:55):
And in fact, look, you know, I, I, don’t always recommend that people put their face on the cover of their books. I started that from the get, from the get go, and it has benefited me, but with, but my vision for my, my writing was so that my books would be a, a huge part of the movement I was creating and the brand that I was building. And so all of my books to date have my cup face on the cover. I think this one smaller book I’m gonna print won’t because it’s, it’s the title is you are the guru it’s I it’s an audio, but I’m gonna print it in, in print. And so I think that you gotta take, you know, the teacher off of the cover when you’re saying you are the guru. So that will be one that won’t have my face on it, but the rest of them do, and for me, that has been a platform builder, for sure. You know, people recognize me from whatever they, other places they may have seen me. But a lot of times people like, oh, you’re that girl on that book cover that woman. I’m not a girl anymore.
RV (18:50):
So you’ve, but you’ve done that. You’ve done that deliberately and intentionally, and you’ve never had any, you’ve never had any worry about self-promotion or vanity or like, cuz cuz I’ll say this like a lot of we, we describe our, our audience as mission driven messengers. They’re exactly the people you’re talking about. They’re they’re not writers per se. They’re someone who goes, I have a message. And I would say that I feel like a strong number of our clients, Gabby. One of the biggest I’ll call it a limiting belief that they have is self-promotion they, they, they they’re stuck. They’re stuck. It’s like they’re trapped in these two prisons. One says you have to get this message out to the world. The other says that’s arrogant and vain and don’t be shallow. Like, you know, whate whoever like it’s and they just like, it’s a real pickle. It’s a connector
GB (19:44):
Beautiful point. Yeah. You know, I’ve had the privilege of, of training authors. I, and I have a training, the bestseller masterclass training. And in that training, I address this head on because I think that writing and publishing a book is a spiritual practice. The first step is having the bravery to reveal the truth, particularly for your audience that are just like me, they’re, they’re wanting to carry an empowering message. And then the next step is really establishing the worthiness. Like who am I to be the expert here? Who am I to tell this story? And in that training, I have a lot of meditations and spiritual practices for grounding yourself in the, who am I not to because we have, in order to show up with our highest purpose in this lifetime, we have to dissolve all boundaries to the expression of that truth. And that must come from a place of who am I not to do this.
GB (20:48):
And more importantly, really grounding yourself in the empowering message that you’re here to share and the impact that it can have. And the message mainly is making it less about you and more about the impact that it will have. And I do this whole me in the bestseller master class about visualizing your reader and really grounding yourself in that experience of the reader, taking in your content. And when you can see your reader in that way, and you can sort of have that, that visceral experience of feeling into that journey that you’re gonna take them on. It really takes your, in your feelings of inadequacy, your feelings of unworthiness out of the picture, it makes it bet something so much bigger. And so, you know, we gotta get our own ego out of it.
RV (21:39):
Yeah. But that that’s beautiful. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s a beautiful thought and I, I I’ll tell you so, so by the way, Y also if you go to and builders group.com/gabby, we’re, we’re part of why we have Gabby here is because she’s someone who practices what she preaches. And we like to, we like to celebrate people who do that. And so we’re, we’re, we’re helping her promote this bestseller masterclass. And if you go to brand builders, group.com/gabby, you can, you can learn about it. Depending on when you get there, there’s a free training going on. So go, go Pronto ASAP. And when you and I were first talking about this Gabby and you were telling me one of the things that really hit me was what, like, to what you just said, that writing a book is a spiritual practice. It’s this and that really hit me both as a power concept that I think people think of it as like a tactical thing.
RV (22:33):
Oh, I’m just gonna like put some words on a page, but it’s actually a tremendously, you know, spiritual practice. It, it, it also really felt like a great example of you living in your uniqueness, that you apply your, your expertise to spiritual teacher, this topic of writing and marketing books. Mm-Hmm
GB (23:27):
Yeah. And I think that, that, you know, as much as I am writing this, creating this course from the lens of spiritual teacher, which there’s no way I couldn’t cause that’s who I am. I’m also a really great marketer. And I have been very unapologetic about carrying my message and putting my face on the cover and being the ex the very loud mouthpiece for my great work. And that is required of us if we wanna get our books out to the world. And I, and I believe that it is our, it is our responsibility to UN ally share our great work with the world. And so that comes through in all of the marketing techniques that comes through in all the spiritual practices that comes it through in all of the, you know, the practices on how to craft and write your outline and your core message.
GB (24:19):
Every single module of that course is infused with the spiritual foundation in the marketing, the, and the profound gift of, of marketing, because it’s, there’s so many people out there that have so much to give, but they have no idea how to give it. They have no, or they have no idea how to ma market it message it, and they have no confidence or they lack the value and the understanding and the awareness of the importance of how much it has to get out to the world. And so that’s what this training offers you. It does. It’s more than just, and I think that’s just in general, what I think my my literary journey has been, has been a journey of having this, this experience of allowing my books to heal so much that I’m, I can hold this book happiness right here. You know, I’m holding this book and I gotta tell you with my friend, you asked me like, is the launch over no way? Like this book has so much value in this world. This book will save lives. This book will transform people on a molecular level, and I will do everything that I can to make sure that every human that needs it finds it.
RV (25:36):
And when you say the term responsibility, that’s what you’re talking about. You’re talking
GB (25:40):
About a hundred percent. Yeah. I wrote a book called happy days, the guided path from trauma to profound freedom and inner peace is the most important book I’ve ever written. Yeah. Maybe it’s not as sexy as super attractive about manifesting, but it’s life changing and it is profound and it is healing. And it is giving a reader who, who may identify as having some kind of trauma with a big tier or small tea, giving them the guided path that I wish I had had when I went through that. And so I’m gonna do anything I can to get it out into the world.
RV (26:11):
Love that. I mean, that, that to me is, is such a huge part of this because, you know, like there’s, there’s tactics, right? Like, oh, you can, you know, dig it on, do PR and like do free events and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All that stuff is super helpful. But if you don’t believe that the world desperately your message, you will find a way to self sabotage, like, and you’ll blame it on the tactics. But the reality is it’s the beliefs that are holding you back. Mm-Hmm
GB (26:41):
RV (26:45):
Yeah. I love, I, I, I, I think that’s so good that said, okay, just a couple minutes. So do, do you have a few tactics? Cause like the tactics are helpful, right? Mm-Hmm
GB (27:28):
For you actually an interesting point. Yeah. See. So with regard to getting the book out, I, I created a six month marketing plan for in inside my bestseller masterclass. It’s actually, one of the modules is teaching it and then they can download the plan. Like they can really walk away with that plan it, if you follow those steps, you will be able to launch a bestselling book. And the thing that you’re saying, that’s so important in terms of tactical practical methods is giving yourself the space to prepare for birthing something so valuable into the world. And of all the products that I launch in the, you know, podcast and everything that I do in my life the most time, attention and energy goes into launching a book because for me, and I really go six months out. And, and now I’m thinking about that as it relates to, you know, pregnancy, right?
GB (28:22):
Like the first three months, you’re kind of like fun and then six months out, you start to plan. Right? And so that, that planning period, and I, I actually even start planning even for further back than that, but it’s really a six month journey of marketing this book out into the world. And then sort of what happens after the book the, the, the strategy and the, and the commitment and the planning is effective and necessary. In addition, there’s other tools I could give people right now, and I go deep into this, in that free training that you mentioned, and these are, and the free training, I actually share my four secrets to your best seller. And they’re, it’s a good sneak preview of what you get inside the bestseller masterclass, but to touch into some of that. Yeah,
RV (29:04):
So real quick. So just again, Y so if, if, if you’re hearing this podcast, right, when it comes out, you can, you can get the free training because it we’re gonna publish this right before it happens. If you go to brand builders, group.com/gabby, the free training will be happening. So hit, as soon as you hear this episode, go to that lake. And then if you it’s, It’s live
GB (29:25):
Right now.
RV (29:27):
Oh yeah. It’s a live free training. Yeah.
GB (29:28):
Live free training. Yeah.
RV (29:29):
If you miss it, if you miss it, we’ll have that link redirected to either, you know, something other free training she’s got or to, or just to the masterclass itself. Okay. Go ahead. So, so brand builders, group.com/gabby, don’t miss it. Okay. Continue on your four secrets.
GB (29:44):
And so I’m gonna share these secrets in the training. And what I’ll touch into right now is that the number one thing you have to know to write and market a best selling book is what your core message is. And your core message is the through line of your book, an example of a core message, happy days, the guided path from trauma to profound freedom and inner peace that is often the subtitle of the book is the core message, right? So the universe has your back transform fear into faith, the super methods for manifesting a life beyond your wildest dreams. Having that clear core message is so crucial to making sure that you don’t write five books in one, it’s so crucial to making sure that you’re sticking to the message rather than, you know, veering off into a thousand different directions. And it’s so crucial to the marketing process, because if you have written a book that has five different core messages, then you don’t know how to market what you’re marketing. You don’t know who you’re marketing to you. Don’t right. So it’s like the, the core message is so important. And I give a practice on how to establish core message inside that free training and a whole module on it inside the bestseller masterclass.
RV (31:06):
Yeah. that, it’s, it’s interesting, cuz we think of that, that message. It’s almost like a litmus test for what makes it in the book and what doesn’t get, make the cut. Exactly. And then, you know, less like the podcast that you, that you, you take on, you know, like which, which media appearances do you take, which speaking engagements do you take? Like who do you go? How
GB (31:25):
Do I pitch it? How do I even pitch it? Right. It’s like, if you don’t, if you’re trying to tell people how to manifest and how to overcome trauma, you don’t, what are you pitching? You know what I mean? Like it’s not the same book. And so you really need to have that clear core message before you start.
RV (31:39):
Well, Gabby, I, I think I will take you know, I will take away so much from this conversation and, and this idea that writing a book is a spiritual practice and marketing book is a spiritual practice. It is a responsibility that you owe to a reader who’s out there that needs you and they need the work that you’ve been called to be a conduit for. And so check out brand builders, group.com/gabby follow Gabby online. You probably already are. She’s got millions of people, but thank you so much for this time and your insight and your wisdom. And I just, I, you know, I’m honored to, to feel like I’m a little bit of a friend of yours and to, to know the true GE you’re on of all the people you’re gonna impact just in the years to come Gabby. So we wish you the best.
GB (32:30):
Thank you. Thank you. So to talk about this.
Ep 273: How to Make Money Selling Online Courses with Amy Porterfield | Recap Episode
RV (00:02):
Amy Porterfield legend. I mean, did, when it comes to digital marketing, online marketing, personal branding, I mean, she’s a legend, she’s one of the, one of the, the fairy godmothers of this industry or this space, you know, I would say godfather, but you know, clearly godmother and she’s, she has just helped a ton of people, 40,000 people to be exact 40,000 people have gone through her paid courses. And I just, I just love that conversation. I I’m honored when we get a chance to be introduced to people like her and get to go behind the scenes a little bit and bring you the stories, right. Of like she’s working with Tony Robbins for seven years and she’s helping Tony do his first live webinar and she accidentally pushes the wrong button and, and, and, and notifies hundreds of people that the webinar is canceled.
RV (00:53):
I mean, just to hear those stories to me is just so rich and rare and, and, and, and powerful because it just, you know, it shows you where these people start and, and, and hopefully that gives you encouragement for where you can start. Like, you can start right where you’re at. And and I just, yeah, I didn’t know exactly what to expect from the conversation like Amy and I have been sort of acquaintances and, you know, a little bit messaging back here and there, and then more recent, we’ve gotten to know a little each other a little bit since she moved to Nashville. And and I’ve just always liked her, just never really known her that well. And, and this was so cool to get to learn from her and hear her story. So I, I let’s talk away. I’m gonna share, you know, my three top highlights from the interview with Amy Porterfield and the first one, one is, you know, we don’t sell a ton of courses.
RV (01:47):
It’s not a big focus of what we do at brain builders group. We, we do one on one personal brand strategy, coaching and training, right? Like we, we do human to human. And so we don’t, we haven’t like put a lot of time and energy into selling courses. It’s it’s and we don’t even really do it at all. I, a lot of our clients do and we’ve done it before, and we know, you know, we know something about it, but like this, the number one question that we’ll always get that always get from people when it comes to their course is how long does it need to be? Like, how many, how many videos and how long? And for some reason, people really get, really get stuck on that. And I loved Amy’s answer. She said simply however long it has to be to get them the result, what a great answer and just the true answer.
RV (02:41):
Like people aren’t paying for the amount of time, right. They’re paying for a result. If you’ve, if you’ve hung around our, our brain builders community, you’ll hear us say this a lot. People don’t pay for information. They pay for organization and application, right? They they’re, they’re, they’re paying for the application. They, they need help applying information to their life. And so in some ways, the, the better you are at teaching, the shorter it can be, and the shorter it should be. You know, I think it was mark Twain, who said, that said that brevity is the essence of wisdom. I shared that David Brooks, one of my speaker coaches in the world championship of public speaking said, tell the audience every word they need to know and not a word more. And, and Amy is applying that same principle here. It, however long it has to be to get them the result that you’re promising them.
RV (03:34):
So, but do it the fastest way possible, be efficient with it. Don’t just like don’t drag on and on with content, cuz you think it needs to be longer in order to justify a higher price. It’s, that’s lowering the value of it. Like if you can deliver the secret and you know, and you can do it concisely just that’s, that’s even more valuable. And I, I, I do also wanna mention a little subnote here where she said bake in pep talks to your course. I love that. That was such a great tip. Bake in little pep talks into your course and realize that it’s not just information. People need encouragement. They, they need motivation. They need inspiration. They, they need, they need wisdom and direction and, and, and they, they need help believing that it’s possible. And you know, it was funny when she said the, the more like signature course, the bigger course, the longer the course, the more motivation they need.
RV (04:33):
And that makes sense because there’s more places where they can get tripped up, right? There’s there’s more, there’s more points on the journey anywhere they can fall off. So bake little pep talks into your course. It’s not just information. It shouldn’t just be boring drudgery through like content, inspire them, challenge them, help them, coach them, encourage them. That’s a really, really important part of, of the journey. So that was really, the second thing was how do you sell a course? And I love, I mean, she said exactly what we do, exactly what she does, exactly what we teach and exactly what we’ve seen works, which is you don’t even really sell the course. What you do is you create a free training. You create a free one hour speech. The way we would say it is the fastest way to take someone from being a total stranger to a lifelong fan is an incredible 45 minute to one hour presentation, right?
RV (05:41):
It’s your speech now? You’ll that is a webinar like in recorded format. That is a webinar. If it’s, if it’s in live format, it it’s a speech. It could be a live on social media. Like it could be a podcast interview, but it’s like, you have to work to create this tightly bound content, rich value added 45 minute, just delicious and impactful training. And then you gotta deliver it to people like you gotta, you gotta run your mouth. You gotta go out and tell the world. You can do it by podcast. You can do it by going live on social media. You can go on other people’s podcasts. You can go, you can do it as webinars. You can break it up into smaller video funnels. You can, you can go out and do speeches. You like, you can do. ’em Virtually you can do ’em in front of humans, but like you have to give people a chance to sample what you have to teach.
RV (06:37):
And that’s why that 45 minutes is it’s gotta be so good. Not smoking mirrors, not flashing the pan, not a bunch of teaser. And then I’ll teach you the good stuff, like 45 minutes of life changing content that you give away for free give people. And, and you promote that. Drive people to that. You drive people to the free thing where they experience you. And then the people who are still there, which are the ones who are interested. They’re not only interested, they’re super interested because they were interested enough to register and then interested enough to show up, interested enough to stay and interested enough to be there at the end. So it’s like, those are the people who want to buy. So if by the time they’re there with you at the end, they want to know what you have for sale. That’s why they’re there.
RV (07:29):
So, you know, use your email and your blogs and your social media and your podcast and your YouTubes to drive people to a free training. And then at the end of the free training, that is where you make the, the pitch to sell. And, and I, I love the way that Amy said that she said, earn your right to sell to them, earn your right to sell to them. It’s like paying in rears instead of paying in forwards, right? Like some of your bills you pay in rears. Like you go, you pay for the service after you’ve experienced it. Right? You do that like at a restaurant, right? You eat a meal, they give you the food first and then you pay for it after, right? That’s, that’s, that’s paying in rears. Other other bills you have to pay first. And then you, then you get the service.
RV (08:15):
Well, when it comes to content marketing, it happens in rears. You have to deliver the training, add the value first. And then you get the, the, you earn the right to sell. As she says by giving immense value, like 45 minutes of truly immense value. So simple, so simple. The fact that it’s a webinar or a summit or a challenge or a podcast or YouTube video or a live stream, or a standing on a stage, like all of those, those are just details. That’s just the modality of delivery. The concept here is add values to people’s add value to people, add value to people’s lives, show them a sampling of, of what you have to, to teach. And, and then that you earn the right to sell. And then the third thing that I learned from Amy, you know, my takeaway, which is like the grand PBA of them all is we, we always are saying, if you have did focus, you get diluted results.
RV (09:18):
Focus is power, right? Those, those are concepts right out of our first book, take the stairs all the way back in 2012, that it is focus. That creates power. And you hear us say it, but you don’t believe it. And those of you that are members of ours, when we’re telling you, no, you don’t need five revenue streams you one, right? No, you don’t need to have 17 social media channels. Like you really need one. Like just, just like the ultimate thing that matters is your email list. Right? And, and then she comes on, like the queen of course is like one of the, one of the OGs. If you’re not familiar with Amy, the baby, this doesn’t make sense to you. But, but there’s a good, you are like, if you’re listening to this show, you’ve probably heard of her before. Like she’d been around from the, from the beginning of online marketing and, and her, her, you know, like that, she is one of, one of the, the creators of the space.
RV (10:11):
And to go 13 years into the business, she got two avenue streams courses and a membership site. But the membership site, she only sells to people who’ve been through the courses like her primary business model is courses. How many courses does she have after 13 years? Three? That’s it three, three courses, 13 years, one business model, one focus courses are not the answer. Coaching is not the answer. Speaking is not the answer. Consulting is not the answer services are not the answer. Any of these business models work. The answer is having one, not having one, having one, meaning you have a so low primary business, this model that it is, it all other things are subservient to that. You’re choosing it for us. It’s one OnOne coaching, right? Like one-on-one training. Like we’re pushing people, we’ve got a curriculum, but we do it through a modality of talking to you one-on-one every month.
RV (11:15):
And, and coming to our, you know, live coaching events, but we’re human based. Whereas you know, Amy’s doing it through courses and, and, you know, group, group, group teaching, other other people will do it through like selling tickets to their events. Or they’ll just, you know, they’re monetizing their podcasts, all the business models work, but it, none of ’em work when you do them all at the same time. So you gotta find your, your primary. And, and I love what she said too. She said, I’ve I never, one of the things that I did well was I never added something new until the thing that I was currently doing was working really well. I never added something new until the thing I was currently doing was working really well. And, and that’s how you get 40,000 clients. I didn’t do the math on this, but like, you know, you go, okay, if you’ve had 40,000 people, let’s just say, it’s, let’s do a a hundred dollars course buy a $500 course on average y’all that is 20 million in revenue, 20 million at 500, if it’s a thousand dollars, it’s, it’s $40 million.
RV (12:28):
Right. So, and if it’s $250, it’s 10, you know, per course it’s million dollars. All of those are pretty good, right? Like all of those are, all of those are pretty good. Again, it’s not that the, the, the, that courses are the answer. Courses might be the answer. They might not be. That’s part of what we help people sort out, but it’s like, you can make money doing this. If you just do this one thing and you do it really well, and you focus on one thing and you drive that and thing, that’s the secret. And she’s living proof of it, living example of it. And it’s just like, you gotta believe in it and you gotta just go. What is my one thing? And now if you’re struggling to figure out what is my one audience, what is my one message? What is my one business model?
RV (13:09):
What is my one marketing platform? Then request a call with our team, go to free brand, call.com/podcast, free brand call.com/podcast, request a call with our team. And we will help you sort that out. That’s why, that’s why we do what we do, but choose one thing, go all in and it will succeed. You can’t fail. If everything you do, if you have all, all of your focus on one thing, you fail because of distraction, you fail because of diluted focus. You fail. Cuz you’re trying to focus on too many things. Narrow the focus make focus on fewer things and you will guarantee your success. Amy, such a great example of that. So encouraging hope you loved it. Hey you know, share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Tell someone about this podcast, leave a comment for us. And if you’re ready to find your focus, request a call with our [email protected] slash podcast. We’re ready to talk to you. Keep coming back here, week in, week out, we’re doing our best to bring you the legends and the fresh faces of everything in this industry, teaching you the best of what we can, as we are learning alongside of you here on the influential personal brand podcast. Bye bye.
Ep 272: How to Make Money Selling Online Courses with Amy Porterfield
RV (00:02):
Oh, oh, I’m so excited and happy for you to meet someone who is a, a newer friend of mine, but somebody that I’ve known for years, I mean, she is the definition of someone whose reputation precedes her, which is what we’re always talking about is building trust, building reputation, doing things that last in her significant over time. And those are all things that I think of when I think of Amy Porterfield. Amy is one of the, I would say original, like or online marketing experts. One of the founding people of this space that is digital marketing and course creation and content creators. She’s extraordinary. She has one of the biggest podcasts in the world it’s called online marketing made easy. I mean, if you go on iTunes, you’ll see it like every week, it’s right in the top five. And before, before she, you know, started this business you know, she’s got several different things that she does, but DCA digital course academy is like one of her flagship products that really, really became well known and really helped create the space that a lot of us live and operate inside of.
RV (01:13):
She worked with mega brands like Harley Davidson and she worked with Tony Robbins actually is where she started before. And so she just does things the right way. She believes in action. She helps people take, you know, small steps and she just has a really amazing track record of success. And I’ve had an awesome time just getting to know her a little bit here and there over the years. And so anyways, Amy, welcome to the show.
AP (01:37):
Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I love that. We’ve gotten to know each other more and more, and now that I’m in Nashville, we’re practically neighbors, so that’s a lot of fun. So thanks for having me.
RV (01:47):
Totally. So I know that, you know, so much about online marketing, but what I would love to hear is the story of how you got started, because I think it’s really easy to go, oh, you know, one day, you know, a lot, I know a lot of people, a lot of our clients, a lot of our team members look up to you and go, oh, I, you know, Amy Porterfield, like, she’s amazing which you are, but how did you get started in the beginning? Like before anyone knew your name before you had the email list before you had hundreds of thousands of social media followers in a top rank podcast, like, can you take us back to that moment for a bit?
AP (02:23):
Yes. And I have to say it’s a little bit of a Rocky start for sure. So let me first take you back to when I was working for Tony Robbins. So I was the director of content development, which really meant I was lucky enough to get to travel the world with Tony and work on the content that he did at his live events, unleashed the power within date with destiny, all these amazing events that he still does. Well, I got to be a part of that from a content standpoint and work on his infomercials back in the day when he was doing his infomercials. So it was an incredible time, but I had this one fateful meeting where Tony invited a bunch of internet marketers to come into our San Diego office and talk about their digital courses in their online businesses. So people like Frank Kern, Brenda Rashard, Evan pagan, Jeff Walker were all at this table.
AP (03:12):
Now I didn’t really know who these guys were, and this is very humbling. It’s a big table. I was asked to come in and notes. So I was literally sitting at a different table, taking notes while these guys went around and talked about their online businesses. Tony wanted to sell digital courses at a, a deeper level. And he always looks at people who are getting it right, and figuring out how they’re doing it. So it was a really cool meeting, but I took the worst notes ever because once these guys started talking, all I heard was freedom. All I heard was like, I get to create my own content, call my own shots. I get to build my audience and work with people I love to work with. And they had lifestyle freedom, financial freedom, time, freedom. And I just thought, I don’t know what these guys are doing. And it was all guys. I don’t know what these guys were doing, but I want a piece of it. So my life was forever changed in that one very specific meeting. And over the next year, I
RV (04:07):
Decided what year was that?
AP (04:08):
So that was 2008. Wow. And so for the next year I worked on how would I have my own online business? And I remember turning to a girl I was working with at Tony Robbins and saying, you’re a writer. You have a skillset that can translate into freelancing and doing your own thing. I’ve been in corporate all my life, like from Harley Davidson publishing, before that I’m a corporate girl. Like I have no idea what I would do as an online business, but I was so wrong because I believe that everybody has some in them that they could take and turn into an online business. I am a, a huge believer in that. So fast forward about a year when I finally said, okay, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna take the leap. I’m gonna start my own business. I quit my Tony Robbin’s job and start my, how have
RV (04:58):
You been there business? How long had you been at Tony Robbins?
AP (05:01):
Almost seven years. So I was there for a
RV (05:03):
Good that’s long time, a long time.
AP (05:05):
And it was an amazing job. They paid me well, I had a lot of clout. I got to call, you know, make big decisions. They respected me like it was, and I got to travel with Tony. I mean, come on. It was an amazing experience, but I wanted that freedom so bad, so bad. You know, I was traveling probably 200, 250 days a year to these events and these other things that we were doing, I had just gotten married. I never saw my husband. So shout
RV (05:33):
Up to Hoby, shout out to what’s up, man.
AP (05:36):
He’s such a good man. So I wanted to spend more time with him. So I thought, okay, I need to change. So I quit my job about a year after that meeting. And I started to do consulting for social media. So I would do I say consulting, but if I really looked at it, I was doing social media for small businesses. And social media was the wild wild west 13 years ago. And so basically I got to kind of just be in a market that was very, very hot at the time, but I hated it. So for two years I built a business I hated. And what I mean by that is I went from one big boss. Literally Tony’s is a huge guy to like eight mini bosses. My clients who I literally let treat me like an employee, I had no boundaries.
AP (06:24):
I was the yes girl. And so I would work way more hours than I did at my Robin’s job, which was a lot of hours. And I didn’t know what freedom was. And I thought, I don’t know who said being your own boss is a great thing, but this is not my cup of tea. So for the first two years, when I started this business, I didn’t like I had a a situation with a free contractor. I was a contractor for the guy in internet marketing, and he had a problem with something, decided to take it out on me. I was getting off of a plane going marketing conference, and he’s on the phone and he’s screaming at me like you did this wrong and you did that wrong and this, and he just needed someone to blame. And I was the girl. And I thought in that moment, I am done with doing this kind of work. It is not the thing I wanna do. I literally fired all my clients. I said, I’m not doing this anymore. I gave him a little runway. That is the day that I started creating digital courses in order to sell online and teach people how to do marketing. So it was a rough two years. I, I went into debt. Things didn’t work out, but it finally did. Thank God.
RV (07:31):
Wow. So, okay, so that’s a, that’s awesome. I, I didn’t realize that you were at Tony Robbins for that long. I mean, that’s pretty cool, like to get really good working knowledge of what a personal brand, you know, operating at that scale. So, so fast forward now, okay. To today, can you still make money selling courses? Like do, like, because people, I hear all the time, right? It’s like, nah, you know, like everyone has a course, like everyone makes courses on courses and how to do courses. Like no one courses anymore, no one finishes courses. Like, but then I go, I don’t know. Like I think my friend Amy’s like doing pretty well and like a lot of our clients are like doing pretty well.
AP (08:11):
Yes. Okay. So the, the short answer is absolutely you can make money with courses, but we’ve also seen the landscape change over time. And I think one of the biggest changes I’ve seen with people who create courses and deliver courses is that people are craving that interaction. We just came out of a two year pandemic. So yeah, people are craving that engagement, that interaction and wanting to get involved with the course creator or the course creators team, so that there’s some and catching going on. And so what we’ve seen is the best courses that are making the most money and the most impact are those were the course creators, willing to show up or willing to create workshops within their courses to actually implement and get things done. I think that’s a shift we’re seeing where back in the day, when I first started creating courses, you could create a course. You didn’t have a community. You didn’t even have live Q and A’s. People could email you if they have a question gone are those days, for sure. But I’m glad that that’s how it is because I love that. I get to see the transformations happening in inside of my courses, but courses are alive and well, and not going anywhere. If anything, we’re continuing to see the climb in people taking courses and really smart people, creating courses.
RV (09:26):
Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of like, I mean, as long as there’s something to learn, there’s gonna be a reason for a course. And it’s like the more and more, it, it becomes easy to produce a high quality product. You know, just using like digital tools. I think to me, the real pressure is gonna be put on like colleges and institutions like that of going like, wait a minute. Like, why should I spend a hundred thousand dollars going somewhere to like, learn from people who have never done it when I can spend a few thousand bucks and learn from the someone who’s the master at this
AP (10:01):
It’s so true. I’ve heard over and over again, not to too my own horn, but to answer that question or to address that where people have said, I have a college education, I have an MBA and I got more out of this, the specifics of what to do than I’ve ever gotten out of that college education. And I think that is very normal for people who create courses that really take it seriously, like find great value in creating impeccable content. I think that’s what’s happening.
RV (10:29):
So, so let’s look at the course then and you go, like, there’s a lot of people. I mean, you know, and a lot of like our listeners and our are like profess service people, right? Like they might be an accountant or they’re a, you know, they’re a dentist or they’re a lawyer or, you know, something like that. And, and, and in those industries, you know, course creation is, is kind of even just coming, you know, just becoming a thing. So how long does a course have to be? I mean, like, I I’d be totally curious in some of these really fundamental questions, just like you said, you’ve been there from the beginning. You’ve seen the transformations that like how long does a course have to be, do I have to, can I shoot it on an iPhone? Does it have to be a six camera shoot? Like how much, how much does it cost? Like just the making of the, of the course itself. Like, okay,
AP (11:16):
I love where
RV (11:16):
We’re at today.
AP (11:18):
Love this question. So first of all, let’s talk about investing and creating a course. Absolutely. You can create it on a smartphone. Absolutely. But you can also even do it easier and use a simple software and do slides in audio. So they hear you, but you’re using slides and you’re educating in that way or a nice little mix of both, but you can do that at on a very tight budget. So number one, you do not need a big budget. Definitely don’t need a crew to help you six cameras, none of that. And I don’t do any of that either. So you could keep it really simple. Also when you ask how long does a course need to be? I teach three different courses and really four with a caveat. So let me tell you about the three courses. Okay. First I teach a starter course where that’s, where you’re helping people just dip their toes in the water just to get started, get that instant momentum.
AP (12:07):
So that could be a course that they get through over the weekend, three modules, a few videos in each module. It’s just the basics. So that’s a starter course, usually around a hundred dollars or so, the second type of course is a spotlight course where you’re gonna take one area of your expertise and you’re gonna go deep. So one of my students is a photographer and he did a spotlight course on flash photography that looked like natural light. So that was his spotlight course, really deep in one topic, never launched anything ever online made $12,000 with this first launch with a list of a hundred people. Wow. So $12,000, just some of you’re like, I wanna make way more than that. Well, yeah, when you have an email list of a hundred, that’s incredibly impressive. Imagine what he can do when he grows his email list.
AP (12:52):
And so that’s a spotlight course, usually around $250 to $500 is what you’ll charge. And then the third type of course is a signature signature course. I call this the Mac daddy of all courses. That’s where you’re giving someone a total transformation from start to finish everything they need to know for that total transformation, how to go from never running in your life, to running a marathon, how to go from never creating a digital course to creating and launching a digital course. So it’s total transformation, usually between 500 and all the way up to $3,000. You got a lot of wiggle room there. So those are the three different types of courses. But I wanna add one thing to that. I was actually reading an apple article about how they’re moving away from the word pro to studio for some of their products and this concept that you need to be pro is going away.
AP (13:43):
And I’m so excited cause I’ve been preaching this forever. You don’t need to be the ultimate pro in your topic, the expert of all experts in order to teach it, all you need is what is what I call a 10% edge. So Jill and Josh Staton are dear friends of mine. They first said this. And I was like, I’m stealing that. That’s exactly what I’ve been talking about. A 10% edge, which means you’re 10% ahead of those that you serve. You’ve done something or you’ve gotten results for, let’s say clients or customers. Now you’re gonna teach how you got those results. As long as you’ve got results in an area. And you’re a few steps ahead of those you serve. You’re perfect to create a course.
RV (14:22):
I love that now. So going back to, okay, so the starter course, you said it might be three modules, three videos in each module, you’re talking about nine, nine videos. How, or yeah, maybe like nine videos. How long are each of the videos?
AP (14:37):
Okay. So an ideal situation and where the market is right now, shorter videos, but multiple videos is better than, let’s say one hour long video. So if, if you need to teach something, it’s gonna take you an hour to teach. Let’s break that up into 15 minute short videos where they’re progressing on each other. People
RV (14:54):
Like four or 15 minute videos, you’re saying
AP (14:56):
Yes. Yes. Okay. Because what you had said earlier makes a lot of sense that people aren’t finishing their courses, we’re obsessed with, with the psychology behind how to get someone to finish a course. So we do a lot of things in our own course and I teach how to get people to the finish line. And one of the ways to get people to the finish line is allowing them to feel as though they have momentum quick 15 minute videos gives you that feeling of momentum. So for a starter course, yeah, you could do three modules in each module. There’s three or four videos let’s say. And that, but I think the more important quite is what do you need to do to teach them how to get the results, whatever it’s gonna take te you know, to get them to that place that you’ve promised that roadmap is really important, but when you’re looking at, how am I going to get them results, if you can do it in the fastest way possible people want instant gratification, let’s give them what they want as close as we can so long, drawn out courses, not ideal.
RV (15:57):
So then you might have, so I love that answer, right? I love that answer of going. It should be as long as it needs to be. Right? Yeah. The the one of, one of my, my speaking mentors in the world champion chip of public speaking said, Rory, tell the audience every single word they need to know and not a word more.
AP (16:18):
Yes, exactly.
RV (16:20):
Very similar to that. And, and so I love that. But like, and so if you’re putting your mind around it, it’s like, okay. It, it might be, if it’s 45 minutes long, like you have nine videos, they’re five minutes. Each that could be a starter course. Like it, it
AP (16:35):
Really could a couple hours. It could really get that way. Absolutely.
RV (16:39):
And then a signature course might be longer.
AP (16:43):
Yeah. So you’ve seen the courses out there like Marie Folio’s B school, it’s a six week course, digital course academy. It’s a seven week course. And there’s seven modules in that seven week course. And they’re gonna take you a few hours to get through now. And I said, you know, don’t create a long out, drawn out course if you don’t need to. But I’ve, if I’m teaching someone how to create and launch a digital course, who’s never done. So might not even have an email list to start out with there’s some things I’ve gotta teach. So then one of the things we do in our course is if it’s a longer course bake in pep talks, it’s a very big deal. So when someone’s going through your course, you’re teaching them something very specific, let’s say nutrition, or how to get their babies to sleep at night or whatever. It might be. There’s moments in the course, you have to stop and say, okay, this is gonna be a tough module. You’re gonna get stuck here and here. And you’re likely gonna think X, Y, Z going. And here’s why like stopping for the pep talks in a digital course are essential to someone getting to the finish line. So the longer, the course, the more mindset type of content you’re going to need to bake in.
RV (17:48):
Ah, that’s so good. I mean, cuz that it’s funny, cuz people are always like, Ooh, I want the, you know, I want the meat, like give me the technique, cut to it. But the reality is the reason they don’t execute is not cuz they don’t know what to do. It’s cuz they get scared and burnt out and frustrated and discouraged and it’s like, they need the pep talk. Like they need, they need that pep talk. Okay. So let’s say this is a big, you know, fast forward, but all right. I created the course, right? Like whatever I did, I, I have the thing now. Yes. how do I get people to buy the thing? Okay. So I got the thing, but if you build it, they don’t come and you go, I don’t have hundreds of thousands of social media followers. And I, you know, I’m, I’m not a like, you know, TV star. I don’t have millions of followers. Like what do I do to sell the thing?
AP (18:40):
I’m so glad you asked this question because one of the things I tell my students is a digital course with, let’s say a sales page is not a build it and they will come kind a situation. You need what I call a marketing vehicle in order to drive traffic. So what I wouldn’t do is I wouldn’t create a course and then create a sales page and then go on social media and email my list and say, I’ve got a course. Here’s what it’s about. Go check it out. I don’t believe that that is the most valuable way for you to get the word it out there about your course. So what I believe is you need a marketing vehicle. My favorite is a webinar. Now it’s funny. Some people will say aren’t webinars going away. 13 years ago, when I came on the scene full time, they would say aren’t webinars going away where they kind of just started.
AP (19:28):
So it’s just people like to, if they’ve a webinar, it hasn’t worked for them. Well, webinars don’t work. Well, let me tell you, I’ve got thousands of students who would disagree with you. Webinars are valuable because if you do it right, and in my course, I literally teach slide by slide by slide because it’s that important when you do a webinar, right? You are giving immense value for about 45 minutes, which I say is you are earning your right to sell. You are giving value before asking anything in return. They see how you teach. They see your personality, your teaching style is so important for them to know and just they get a good sense of what you’re about. And you start changing their mind through that webinar. What do they need to know or believe or understand before they’re ever ready to buy? You’re answering that question in your webinar.
AP (20:14):
So when you get to the selling portion, they’re more likely to buy your conversions will increase so much more. If you do, let’s say a webinar to a sales page. And then of course, if they don’t buy on the webinar, you use email marketing to a sales page. But also there’s other things you can do. You can do challenge challenges. Challenges are really big right now converting. Well, one thing that we’re doing in may that we’ve never done before is a paid challenge. So we’ve done tons of free ones, but now we’re having people. Is it really a paid workshop that we’re then going to sell our course in that workshop? So we’re trying different things, but webinars, workshops, challenges, it’s that vehicle that then gets them to the sales page.
RV (20:55):
Yeah. And I, so, you know, it’s funny when I was in college, Amy, I, I went door to door for five summers knocked on 15 hours a day. This is in, this is the year 2000 to 2005. And people would say, nobody will buy from a door door salesperson. I made $250,000 in five years, five summers knocking on doors. And it was like, there could not be a more antiquated old school doesn’t work anymore. And it’s like, when it comes to content marketing, like here’s the thing, you can call it a video funnel. You can call it a webinar funnel. You can call it a challenge. You can call it a summit. You can call it an IGT or a TikTok. The bottom line is if you give value to people first, if you teach ’em what you know, through whatever the medium is or the modality, the, they will trust you. And then they will buy from you. If, if you want more yes. Or like, yes,
AP (21:55):
Yes, yes. And yes, it’s so true. I love that you use the door to door example. Yeah. People will knock it, but then the people who have actually done it, taken it seriously, look, you’ve gotten amazing results with fit. And I think that the, the thing that people get a little bit stuck on webinars, is it that, that live aspect going live? What if the technology breaks down? I’ve been on many, many webinars where the technology broke down. Yeah. Real quick. When my very first webinar that I’ve ever done was with Tony Robbins and it was back years before I left the position and Tony was doing his very first webinar. Like he had never done it. It was on go-to webinar. He’d never done a webinar before. And he was selling people to unleash the power within, through this webinar. But they paid a hundred dollars cuz Tony’s Tony. So he can get ’em to pay a hundred dollars even be on that webinar. Right. And then he was selling them into U P w we had 800 people signed up the night before Tony and I. He was at his home. I was still in the office and we were practicing. And then he’s like, okay, I’m good to go. I pressed a button. And all of a sudden Tony goes, Amy, why did I just get an email saying our webinar has been canceled? I’m like, no, no, no, no. It’s not no
RV (23:06):
Way
AP (23:07):
Everybody got an email saying your webinar has been canceled. Yes. I literally deleted the webinar. I will say there were tears. I literally stayed in the office all night. Never went home that night. Thank God. Go to webinar, pieced it all together after hours and hours of figuring out what we’re going to do. But yeah, we had to send out an email saying just joking, it’s not canceled. I’m sure Tony wanted to fire me in that moment. But things happen. And I think as an entrepreneur, building a brand that you firmly believe in and that you’re here for the long haul, you have to roll with those challenges. You have to say like, I’m gonna look like a fool on this webinar. Maybe it might not go as planned. I’m gonna figure it out. And I think I’m better because of all the many mistakes I’ve made along the way.
RV (23:51):
Yeah. That’s such a, such a great story. And it’s people like to blame a tactic or blame a tool. And it’s just like, they all work. Like none of ’em, none of ’em are, none of ’em are perfect. They all work. If you work, like if you work it and you gotta, you just gotta keep going now. Okay. So, you know, this is helpful for me. Like even we have, you know, we see a lot of courses and all that stuff. We, we don’t sell a ton of them cuz we’re coaching. But Tony Robbins is using webinars to, to sell events. You’re using webinars to sell courses. We use webinars to drive people to free calls and then we sell ’em coaching. Like, like it, it, you can’t say it doesn’t work. It totally works. Cuz it’s just, it’s not the webinar. It’s human psychology.
RV (24:32):
It’s like I’m teaching, I’m giving value. What, what I am curious while I, while I have you, I know we only have a few, few more minutes, but like while I have you since we haven’t been, you know, all in on courses like, like this, I wanna kind of move to more of the, a little more of the advanced stages and talk about scale. So how many, how many courses can you really sell of the same one? Cuz I hear people be like, well, you know I sold 500 or I sold a hundred and I need a new course. Like, do you have any thoughts on like how often do I need to create a new course?
AP (25:09):
Okay. So you and I are new friends, so you don’t know this, but this is my favorite question ever, because I teach my students that it only takes one course to essentially make a million dollars. I made a million dollars with a $97 course that I did with Louis House. Back in the day, we partnered on a course and also I’ve made a million dollars with courses that were more expensive in a very short period of time. Now the million dollars is not what we should be chasing. That’s not a number that I want my students to fixate on. What I’m saying is that if you create one course and you launch it over and over and over again, and each time you relaunch it, you marketing gets better. Your webinar gets better. Your course is updated each time based on the feedback from the last student group, you can create one course and continue to launch it.
AP (25:57):
And I want you to launch it at least three to four times before you ever move to anything new. Every single one of my mentors, my peers that have done really well with digital courses, they don’t jump ship. They stay with that same thing, keep it simple, get fancy later. And what I mean by get fancy later is once you’ve dialed that in once, that course is making you money. You might wanna turn it on evergreen. You go from a live launch to evergreen and then you wanna add something else to the mix. So right now I have two courses on evergreen, one that I live long lunch once a year and I have a membership. And the only way you can get into that membership is if you go through my signature course. So I have four core things that I do and I do them really well, but I don’t do a lot of other things as well. I get asked to do a bunch of stuff and I gotta get on the no train because I wanna be really good at what I do. The last thing I’ll say to that though, is I’ve never added something new until what I was working on was fully optimized and dialed in and could run itself so that I could move on to something else. So my answer is you don’t need a lot of courses. You don’t need a lot of memberships do one thing. Well Del will down and don’t move on until you’ve perfected that
RV (27:06):
That’s so good. Like y’all, if you, those of you that have heard us talk about Shehan wall and if you have diluted focus, you get diluted results. Yes. You just heard it from the mouth of the queen of this, of this whole space. Like how many years you’ve been doing this? Amy? Oh,
AP (27:23):
Al over 13. So almost 14,
RV (27:26):
13 years. And after 13 years you got three courses, 1, 2, 3, and a membership site, which is just a place to, for people to go after they’ve been through the three. Yeah, they
AP (27:35):
Have. Yeah. You don’t even market it publicly. Yeah.
RV (27:38):
So three courses, 13 years you said.
RV (27:42):
And, and you go, I mean just, if you think about it, you go, if you spend 13 years perfecting the, the sales of three things, do you think you’ll figure it out? The answer is yes. Anybody could figure it out, but when you spend 13 days and then you launch something new and then you go, I didn’t like that. And that webinar didn’t work and I need a new CR am and I need a new social media strategy and a new, I mean, that is so powerful. Like you’ve made millions and millions of dollars from three courses. How many students is this? How many people can you, can you really reach before you go? The market is saturated.
AP (28:20):
So we’ve served over 40,000 students over my
RV (28:23):
Lifetime. Oh man. That is awesome.
AP (28:25):
Yeah. Of building the business. So we’re really proud of that. And this whole idea that the market is saturated. I just feel like you could say that in so many different places, but then you always see people coming out on top. And I always think, well, why not me? Why can’t that be me? And I also really know what I do. Well, I do many things wrong and I’m weak in a lot of areas, but I know step by step teaching. I know taking people through the details, holding their hand virtually. And so I just bank on what I know best and whoever likes that kind of style of teaching, they’re gonna like what I have. So I just don’t focus on the saturation cause I just don’t think it serves us.
RV (29:03):
I mean, well, even if we say, okay, 40, thousand’s the number. Once you’ve sold 40,000, then we’ll call Amy back and we’ll say, Amy, our market is saturated. What do we do next? But
AP (29:13):
Call me then
RV (29:14):
We know 40,000. Okay. So 40,000 times $500 course. Eh, that’s a good bit of coin that you can make between between here and there. Amy, this has been so great. I know you just, you have so much information. One of the things that you mentioned that I wanted to get into that we’re not gonna have time to get into is list building and you building your email list. I know you did a, you did a ton with that. You did a brilliant job of building your own list. You have a a program called list builder society. Yeah. And we’re, we are a new affiliate for Amy because of this. If you go to brand builders, group.com/porterfield, brand builders, group.com/porter you can learn about this. So te so tell us a little bit about what that is and like, you know, the email list.
AP (30:07):
So I always say that the energy of your business is directly tied to the strength of your email list. I wanna repeat that one more time. The energy of your business is directly tied to the strength of your email list. Notice I did not say size because I know lots of my students was small email list, doing big things. But the energy that I’m talking about is your impact, your revenue, your engagement, your audience, building, all of that is surrounded by what you can do with this email list. Social media is fickle that algorithm, you can’t trust it. People will see two to 3% of your post on social media, but email can convert at four times higher than any social media post. So I always tell my students, if you’re asking, where do I start? What do I do? How do I make my business more profitable? You have to focus on your email list, the best time to do so was yesterday the best next time is today. So I created this free master class. It’s called we, why is starting an email list. So dang hard and what to do instead. And it’s all about what you can do to make your email list grow quickly, free masterclass. Whether you buy from me or not, you’ll walk away with value. So go check it out. I’d love to help people get started with that.
RV (31:17):
Yeah. See. So there you go. So brand builders, group.com/porterfield, you can check this out, you know, okay, Amy’s going to deliver 45 minutes of the best stuff she has.
AP (31:26):
Absolutely.
RV (31:28):
This is one reason we’re aligned. One of our mantras that we talk about all the time, Amy is we say, save the best for first. Save the best
AP (31:35):
First. Oh, I love that.
RV (31:36):
Just and, and, and you do this, you give the goods like, so go there brand builder, group.com/porterfield, go there, watch the training. You don’t have to buy the course. The training’s gonna be awesome. Watch Amy do this, right? Like here she is. Right. What? And do what she’s doing. You go on podcasts, you make friends, you share tips on social. And then you say, go watch my free training. And that’s how you, that’s how you build your email list. And on the free training, you say, she check out my course and that’s how you, how you sell the course. It’s. I mean, I think one of the things that’s gonna stick with me the most from this, especially since you and I haven’t like spent a ton of time together is just you know, you, from a far Amy, you look at somebody like you who’s accomplished so much.
RV (32:20):
You’re so influential in the space. You know, so many people like you, you know, everybody that is an, is OG in this whole space. It’s easy to get enamored. Like, well, of course she would, or she started earlier or you know, all of these stories, but to hear you go, I use webinars. I sell courses, I got three courses. I teach people as much value as I can in 45 minutes. And then I show ’em how to take the next step. It’s like, you’re, it’s, it’s, you know, not to take away from your magic whatsoever, but you are, you are a master at the fundamentals.
AP (32:56):
That is like the biggest compliment ever. I appreciate you saying that.
RV (33:01):
It’s awesome. So it it’s
AP (33:02):
Important. So thank you for recognizing that. No one’s ever said that about me before like that, and I appreciate it cause it’s important. And I hope I’m an example to people that it doesn’t have to be complicated. You don’t have to have a tons of tons of bells and whistles to make this work. And, and I hope people see that today.
RV (33:19):
I love it. I love it. So anyways, we’ll link up to Amy’s free training. You can check it out, follow her on social. Amy, we wish you the best. I know you’ve got some big things coming up here in your future, which we’ll be praying for and cheering for. Thank you. And
AP (33:33):
Well, you’ve been such a, a great new friend and I’m, I’m excited for us to get to know each other even more. So thanks for having be me.
RV (33:40):
Yeah. You’re part of the Nashville posse. Now, like once you move into Nashville, it’s just like, we gotta, we gotta stick together,
AP (33:46):
Bring it on. I love it.
RV (33:48):
All right, friend. All the best. Thank you so much.
AP (33:50):
Thank you.
Ep 271: Building Your Personal Brand as a Small Business Owner with Jill Flodstrom | Recap Episode
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody. This is AJ Vaden. I am here with your recap episode, from my conversation with Jill Flodstrom. And I love Jill she’s a longtime friend. She is a, a client of brand builders group, which is so cool that she’s a fellow entrepreneur has a thriving, personal brand and also really pull insurance business and real estate business. Anyways, we wanna know more about that. Don’t listen to the full episode but here is my quick recap and I promise to keep this short and sweet. And I always say that sometimes I will actually do today, but there were two really important things that I pulled from my conversation with Jill that I wanna share with you guys today. And both of those really hit true to me because as an entrepreneur and a small business owner and someone who is trying to build and grow right, their personal brand, in addition to helping others do that she said a couple of things that I think are just truly universal and applicable, no matter where you are and what you you’re doing.
AJV (01:04):
And the first thing is that there are, there are things that you can be doing that you are not doing that would make your life better. All right. And that’s really what I heard. And I think so many of us live in the day to day of just doing things because that’s what we’ve always done. And there is the easier way and many times a better way, but the pain of going through the change to actually make it easier or better seems like more work than it’s worth to do. So we keep doing it the way we’ve always done and we keep being stressed out, overwhelmed, overworked and ultimately not happy. And that was like a really important thing, was like, how many things am I doing right now? That one I just shouldn’t be doing at all, but because of a scarcity mentality I won’t outsource them or delegate them or I’ve convinced myself that I’m the only one who could possibly do this, which is just not true.
AJV (02:05):
That are some things that maybe you should be doing, but you’re definitely not the only one who can do many, most things in your business. So what are those things to you? And she gave some really tangible tactical tips on how to get your email in order. And I love this. I still don’t know what it is in terms of how to use it with office 365, which is what I use for email, but this idea of templated responses of how do you minimize the repetitive work that you’re doing. And there’s so many things as business owners, entrepreneurs, just humans that we do that are repetitive, that we need to find systematic with ways of improving to get back the minutes, because those minutes turn into hours and hours mean a lot, right? Like my kids don’t need to be with me eight hours a day.
AJV (02:57):
They need a little bit of really intentional time with me, right? They’re in school, I’m working. They don’t need all day with me, with me being distracted. They need my pure focused intentional time. So if I can get one hour back every single day that I can repurpose for my husband and my kids, I will change my life. And so minutes turn into hours. So what are you doing to help a accumulate those minutes? And I just, I loved this concept of todo lists and it’s like, you shouldn’t do everything on your to-do list when something are on there to remind you, they should not be on your to-do list, but you should always start with the things that turn into revenue that make you money. Because that’s, that’s the orientation that we’ve should be viewing these things when it comes to work.
AJV (03:41):
Right. and I think those were just amazing tips around how do we get more time back in our very busy days? That was huge. Second thing. And I’ll leave you with this. And I swear, y’all she has been talking to Rory Vaden. This is a message that Rory Vaden hits me with the time, and I’m not exaggerating. I’m reading this new book right now. That is incredible called nothing to prove. And it’s by Jenny Allen. I recommend it to any single person on the planet. It’s a must read. It’s extraordinary. It’s so good. But one of the questions that was in the end of one of my chapters was last night. This is literally a conversation we had last night, right before my interview with Jill Flodstrom today at serendipitous. But the question was, if you knew nothing could hold you back and if nothing was holding you back, what’s the number one thing that you would go out and do.
AJV (04:36):
And I asked Roy this last night and he literally said it would be one of two things I’d go all in on paid traffic is another topic for another day, but I’d go all in on paid traffic or I would completely stack up our team. And I was like, those are the two things that you would do if nothing was holding you back. Mine could not be further from that in the whole world. But it was interesting. And I was like, you would staff up our whole team. What do you mean? He goes, babe, it’s like, I would get you every single bit of help that you need. I would, I would just pull the trigger and I would hire this person and I would hire this person. And I would staff up so that you don’t feel burdened, or I don’t feel burdened to do the things that are pulling us away from time with each other time, with God time with our kids. And I was like, okay, well, those weren’t mine, but okay. That was good. And it just, I kind of like forgot about it. And then literally in this conversation with Jill today, I asked her at the very, very end. I said, Jill, from all the businesses that you’ve started scaled, sold, dismantled building a personal brand, like what’s one main life lesson as an entrepreneur that you would give to other entre entrepreneurs. And without hesitation, she said, hire before you’re ready.
AJV (05:50):
I was like, I’m sorry, what? And she said, hire before you’re ready. It’s like, sometimes you just know that there is
AJV (05:56):
A message that someone has to deliver just for you. That interview is for me today. And I think that’s the beauty and the power of having common community and listening to podcasts and listening and learning to other people is sometimes you know it, but you need someone else to speak it to you to speak it into you. And man I’m needed that today. And so maybe someone else needs that too, but hirer before you’re ready because I’ve been procrastinating on hiring some positions, cuz I don’t think that we have enough cash to do it or that would put too much financial strain on the business. Or if we hire people, what if we can’t give bonuses and raises and I’ve been putting it off. But guess what guess who’s taking on the brunt of that workload? Me, me and me again. And it’s like, why am I doing that? Like make us ready, get us ready, but hire before you’re ready. All so good. Love this interview. Go check it out. Come back again. Stay connected, make sure you like comment, share subscribe but stay in stay in tune with us on the influential personal brand. This is Aden and we’ll.
Ep 270: Building Your Personal Brand as A Small Business Owner with Jill Flodstrom
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. Today I have a good friend and a BBG client as my special guest. Before I formally turn it over and let you guys meet the one and only Jill Flodstrom let me give you just a little bit of her what I’m gonna call professional bio and then I’ll help fill in the gaps with all the things that are not on here, which should be, which I think are a really impressive part of who Jill is and what she’s done. But here are some things that might be relevant to you specifically, if you are an entrepreneur or a small business owner, right? Because Jill is a serial entrepreneur, she has created and built five separate businesses in three separate industries. And so she is no stranger to jumping off the cliff without a parachute and trying to figure out how do we make this all work as she’s a flying down the mountain which I think is a unique component of deciding to take that leap and be an entrepreneur and build a small business.
AJV (01:09):
But I would say when it comes to her personal brand, separate of all these businesses that she’s created and runs, she really specializes in helping her clients mitigate feelings of overwhelming chaos when it comes to growing their businesses. And as an entrepreneur and a small business owner, there is a lot of chaos and a lot of overwhelm. And I also know that Jill is not just passionate, but also just very skilled at efficiency and organization. And so she has really I would say made that leap from not just entrepreneur and small business owner, but also a thriving personal brand. So without further ado, welcome to the show, Jill,
JF (01:50):
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.
AJV (01:53):
Yes, we are too. I love it. When we get to feature our clients and you’re not just a client, like you’re one of like the OG clients. You’ve been a part of our community for three years. We’re so honored and blessed to have, get to be a small part of your journey and to see all the amazing stuff that you’ve built over the last three years. But I know all this, but the people listening do not. So to help everyone get to know you a little bit, just to tell us how you got to where you are what are these businesses that you’ve been building? And that was just a little bit about all the things that are Jill
JF (02:27):
They’re. They are all so different. I, I think a lot of people probably tried to create businesses within the same industry. Not me. I’m just like, you know what, I wanna try that let’s go for it. But my career started in banking, which led to financial services because I used to work at the coroners office. I used to meet a ton of people that were not prepared for retirement, not prepared for the bad things that can happen to us. And I just thought, you know what, there’s gotta be a better way. There’s gotta be people that we can talk to that really understand, you know, what’s kind of working, using my medical background to, so it just kind of was a natural evolution. And then with the way that the reform has come about with healthcare and financial services, just thought, you know, what it need to create a personal brand, something that I can control. And it’s just kind of led to where we’re at today and it’s been a natural evolution and it’s just, it’s been an awesome, awesome journey.
AJV (03:25):
Oh, I love that. And I love how you just, so always casually mentioned this, this brief stint of your life in the coroner’s office and the Morgue I think it’s so fascinating knowing you and you were like the most bubbly, bright, friendly person on the planet. Like how that ever worked. I don’t know. Maybe it’s like the perfect just juxtaposition of roles and positions in that. But so I, I want everyone to know, it’s like, kinda give like people, like when you talk about building and scaling small businesses and all these different industries, it’s like you have a real estate entity, you’ve got your financial service services and insurance practice like you’re really all across the board. And so I’m curious for you knowing that when it comes to like your personal brand and this personal passion of yours around organization and efficiency, it’s like, like, how do you, like, I even know, like right now, as you sit right here, like you’re sitting in Las Vegas, you do not live in Las Vegas, you live in Washington, but you’re flipping a house for your real estate business. It’s like, how do you keep all these different businesses, like siloed and centered and organized and efficient and running all at the same time, because that’s a lot going on.
JF (04:36):
It is. I always tell people, it’s like, kind of like a marathon. Like you have to make sure that all these businesses are running at the same pace as each other, which is kind of a juggling, you know, situation. But I think the most important thing is we try to complicate things so much as human beings and really just keeping things super simple, allows me to do all these different and keeping these businesses running is quite the adventure, but keeping it simple has really, really helped me.
AJV (05:08):
Okay. So this is an amazing topic to talk about because I doesn’t, I do not care what it is that you do. It’s like we do overcomplicate it. Like we try to make it as complicated as possible. Even if it’s emotionally, it’s like, it’s not that big of a deal, but yet we build it up as some catastrophic event that’s gonna happen. And so as an entrepreneur, small business owner, this thriving, personal brand with this awesome reputation for doing great work, it’s what are the things that you find other small business owners, entrepreneurs overcomplicate, and, and wanna know personally too. It’s like, how would you help someone to simplify things?
JF (05:48):
I think the first one, because we all are suffering from overwhelm in our email. And so I love to focus with my clients first on the email, like let’s tame the email monster, and then we can kind of move on to some other things. But there’s a way that I organize my inboxes within my email inbox, which makes it so much easier to just manage that flow of emails, because I think there’s so many more people that are, are just, they look at their inbox and they’re like, oof, I’m not even gonna deal with it today. I’m just gonna set it aside. And if somebody really needs me, they’ll email me again and it’ll move to the top of the stack because I used to be one of those people that when you would look at my phone, it said like 50,000 messages, like I was that person and now I am reformed and I am inbox zero. Like that’s the team I’m on. And let me tell you, if you are suffering with email overwhelm, that inbox zero is like, it it’ll change your life.
AJV (06:47):
How is that even possible?
JF (06:50):
Right.
AJV (06:51):
What I know. So, okay. So when it comes to email, like give us one tip from the Jill floods from book of how do you, I don’t know if this is a word decom, simplify, let’s go simplify. How do you simplify email? Like how do you make progress towards this concept of zero inbox?
JF (07:10):
Well, I think the main thing is using templated responses. That is huge because when you think about, you know, all the emails that you get in every day, you might be typing the exact same words
AJV (07:23):
All the time,
JF (07:23):
A bunch of different people over and over and over again. And when you think about creating a templated response for that, it just makes it so easy to just click one button versus having to type that whole string. And if you’re somebody that uses your own for email, like you’re not a desktop or a laptop person, you can use the hot keys inside your phone to do the same thing. So instead of having to type all that out and use up all that extra time and energy, you just couple key strokes and you’re done. I mean, it’s, it’s been a huge game changer.
AJV (07:55):
Okay. Well, I’m gonna sound really uneducated right now. What is the templated response of, how do I get one? What is this?
JF (08:02):
Well, depending on what
AJV (08:04):
Email. Okay. I use office 365.
JF (08:07):
Okay. So mine’s probably gonna look a little bit different than yours because I am a Gmail person for business. So basically what it is is you just go into your settings and there’s different things, very similar to how you set up your S line in your email. So it’s similar to that and it’s probably in a very similar spot in your settings. So you go in there and you type like Hey, thanks so much for your email. I’ll get back to you in a couple hours with it. That’s just an easy one. Well, you can create that templated response and then just use certain keys. You know, I usually set them as like weird key strokes, like X, you know, Y, Z something like that, that you wouldn’t normally type, like don’t use ha S or something like that, cuz you type that all the time, but then it just automatically populates it in your email inbox, inside that message that you’ve opened and you just click send and it’s gone. And same thing with your phone. There are, if you’re an apple user, it’s probably probably something similar for Android, but for apple people you can literally type like just one letter like Z and then that responsible pop send and off you go
AJV (09:17):
Fascinating. Well, I know what I will be doing when I get off this interview with you. Okay. So this concept of like templated responses. Yeah. Can you have lots of them?
JF (09:29):
Oh, heck yeah.
AJV (09:30):
Okay. You have
JF (09:31):
Lots and lots and lots of them. And so I always encourage people to look through your sent file and see what you’re sending to people because what you probably don’t realize is that you’re sending the same thing pretty consistently. And so that’s what you can use to turn into a template and response and it just makes it so much easier. So that way you’re not sitting at your computer going, okay, I know I wanna do this, but I have no idea what I would use for just go look through your sense and you’ll be able to see it.
AJV (09:58):
That’s great. So what’s one thing that you use it for to give us some context.
JF (10:02):
I use it. I mean, I use it for a response to a general email. Like let’s say I’m in the car or I’m traveling and I really want this person to know that I receive their email and that I’m aware of it. I’ll send a templated response for that. That’s probably the easiest, but a lot of times for specific business, like for health insurance, like we are sending the same response that says, Hey, I would love to help you with that. Here’s my scheduling link. Schedule an appointment when it’s a great time for you. That’s a templated response. I don’t need to type that out every time, just
AJV (10:34):
Right.
JF (10:35):
Strokes. And off I go.
AJV (10:37):
Mm y’all that’s huge like little things of like even using it internally. Like if you have team members of, Hey, everyone’s like, Hey, can I get to this? It’s like, Hey, here’s my calendar link. Instead of having to type that up or try to coordinate. But that’s the thing that I love too about working and talking with other entrepreneurs. There’s these little hacks, right? It’s all these like little things. It’s nothing Mo which I also dunno if that’s a word, but it’s like just enough making up words today. It’s just enough to like free up a little bit of that mental space of going. It’s one less thing that I have to like type out think about and get to it also probably makes it easier to respond quicker of, you know, just like template, response, go template, response, go
JF (11:22):
Well. And I always tell people too, like when we sit down and we talk about, you know, we have this massive project that we wanna do and we, a lot of us don’t have a full half a day or two hours to carve out to dedicate to just this one thing, but we have two minutes. And so using those little templated responses, you’ll be shocked at how much time you get back into your schedule. And it’s like anything, you know, it takes a little bit of getting used to, but once you do, you will be to the point where I’m like, I can’t live without it. Like I’m sending templated responses all the time.
AJV (11:54):
Oh, that’s so true because it’s like, how many times are we just trying to like, like we’re in Starbucks line or we’re sitting out of red lights, definitely not driving right safety first, but maybe sitting at the red light, going out two minutes and it’s like, you can maybe get through three or four things versus one thing. Just trying to type this out. I love that. I love this little hacks. I love, I love everything about just trying to be more efficient. And this is also a part of your personal brand, right? Yes. So it’s like in addition to your insurance business and your real estate business and everything else we have going on, it was really this passion for efficiencies and little tips and tricks of the trade that you kind of leaned into your personal brand. So I kind of wanna know as a small business owner, as an entrepreneur, it’s like, what was that trigger point for you of going, I have a lot going on, I’m managing a lot. I’m growing and leading multiple companies like this isn’t ne necessarily something you had to do. You wanted to do it. So why make the choice to lean in to building your personal brand as a small business owner?
JF (13:00):
Well, you know, it kind of started as something that kind of surprised me to be honest, because I thought everybody was doing it. Like, I think we just kind of get into our own zones and we don’t realize that not everybody is doing the same things. So I would go to these events and I would talk about these random things that I do and people would be like, why are you keeping that to yourself? Like you need to tell people about that. People need to know because everybody needs more time. Right. I mean, that’s the one thing that we cannot get back. And so I just kind of was like, what, like, people really don’t know that. And so when I started about the email organization or like how to categorize your to-do list or all these different things, people were just like, say what, I I’ve never heard of that before.
JF (13:43):
So it was kind of that, but also knowing that with the way that things are changing in the financial services world and the health insurance world and the government becoming more involved in that, I really like the idea of being able to control more of the business than giving that to someone else to control. And so it just kind of was this Mary of two things that I loved, you know, all these random things that I do every day, I thought everybody did. And then also creating this business around it because I think as we, as entrepreneurs, when we stick together and we help each other, it is like the growth of that is just massive. And so if I can help other people with these little random things, I feel like it can really, really change their life.
AJV (14:31):
Oh, I love that so much. And that’s so true. It’s like every really great business idea truly should stem from this could really help someone else. So really, as an entrepreneur, a small business owner, it’s like, you were at these events with other small business owners and they’re like, Hey, why are you keeping all these secrets to yourself? How do we like build this? And so you really started building your personal brand to help people just like you.
JF (14:57):
Absolutely. Yep. Because I think you get to a certain point in your business where if you don’t control it, it will start to control you. And you’ve gotta kind of like take the reins and be like, okay, I don’t have all this mass amount, amount of time, but I do have two minutes. I have 30 seconds. I have these random little pockets of time that I can be doing things. So that way, at the end of the day, I can actually go be with my family and not be working until midnight or three o’clock in the morning. Like so many of us do a really capturing back that family time, which I think is so important and sometimes kind of gets lost when you become an entrepreneur, because you’re so focused on building this business and getting clients and earning money and doing all the things that, that stuff kind of gets pushed to the side. But I think we need to bring that back because there’s nothing more important than our families.
AJV (15:49):
Great. All about that message. Yeah. It’s like if we had a happier home life, we would naturally have a happier work life, all of us. Okay. So about three years ago, then you started leaning in and building your personal brand, which is how I got to be connected with you. And this, a beautiful relationship with brand builders group and you started to emerge. And so I’m so super curious and for everyone listening, what has this process been like for you as a small business owner of going all right, I’m gonna lean in and do this thing that I feel really called to do because unlike many of our clients who are building their personal brands for their actual businesses, yours is a little bit of a delineation from that. And it’s like, this is naturally having positive byproduct, but it’s almost like a whole new business. And so you’ve really built out this entire like productivity for entrepreneurs and small business, those owners owners course, which does, and doesn’t necessarily really connect to your other businesses. So I would love to hear your journey about it’s ultimately creating a new business, but why did you go the course route? And how has this process been for you as both the face of your business and also this kind of like growing personal brand?
JF (17:12):
I think the main thing is that this started many years before I even had found brand builders because it was something that I knew that I wanted to do, but it’s like, where do you start? And so I know, I mean, because my whole high school career, I loved sports and you know, in sports you always have a coach, someone who’s pushing you, someone who’s making you better, someone who’s guiding you. And I really found that when you have an idea, but you don’t really know what else is around that idea. You know, I can build a business. That’s not a problem. But when you take this idea, this little tiny baby, and you’re like, how do I make this grow? Like what could this become? I really think that the course route and having the coaching is huge. And I always tell people that there’s no way that we could have created what we’ve created without brand builders, because there’s so many people that I meet throughout this journey that are like, Hey, I’ve already got this book.
JF (18:17):
I’ve already got this thing. And I really came here with just an idea and like a calling. And like, I know that I can make a difference in someone’s life. I don’t really know how I’m gonna do that, but I’m gonna figure it out and you guys are gonna help me. So it was just really this journey that looking back, it’s like, holy smokes, we’ve accomplished a lot in the last couple years. It’s kind of crazy when you look back. But I think the, the main thing that I wanna tell everyone listening is that if you have an idea, do not give up on that. I idea find the person that supports you, find whatever you need to make that idea a reality, because you don’t wanna let those ideas just sit in a notebook or stay on the shelf. You’ve gotta get them out there because they really truly can change other entrepreneurs lives.
AJV (19:07):
Oh, that’s such wisdom from your mouth right now. It’s so good. I think one of the things I love about that, and we’ll just stay here for just a second is it’s like, if the idea is in you, there’s a reason, right? Whether you see a need or you feel the need, or it’s a need, that’s finally been fulfilled for you or it’s something you see people around you struggling with. And like, I wouldn’t even say like today, it’s like in our short conversation already, it’s like templated responses. Like I already know like three different ways of like, this could really help me, like may not change every part about my business, but I don’t need a hundred new ideas. I need a couple that just help me move a little faster. And I think it’s such a great reminder to all of us. It’s like, if that idea has been placed on your heart, if you feel like you have this calling, like it’s for a reason, it’s like somebody out there needs it. They need you, but they also need you to step out of this place of fear or uncertainty and go, I I’ll tape a leap, a leap of faith and we’re gonna see what happens.
JF (20:12):
Absolutely.
AJV (20:13):
All right. So tell us a little bit more
JF (20:15):
Part
AJV (20:15):
Too. Oh, definitely. The scariest part into the unknown. My favorite song from frozen is like all the things, right. So I wanna know more about like what you’ve been working on when it comes to this personal brand of yours and a huge part of it. I know that you are launching a new course, right? It’s a huge part. We’re so excited to get to help you with that. And so it really is a course about helping people get their time back. Right. So we talked a little bit about this email and templated responses, but give us a sneak peek. And then for everyone listening we’re also gonna include a link in the show notes of where you can go and get Jill’s free productivity guide for entrepreneurs. In fact, I’ll go ahead and give you like a little sneak peek of where you can go to get that.
AJV (21:06):
And you will go to scale scale your small business.org/clear, right? We’ll also put that in the show notes. That’s a really awesome place to go with this free guide that Jill has teed up for everyone listening today. But all right, Jill, so in this course of building this out, like there’s a whole process to figuring out, like, how do I take all of this knowledge and all of these things that I’ve been doing. And also what I think would actually help someone else and put that together in a way that other people can digest it. So if you were to tell everyone listening, here are the three things that you are gonna come away within this course. And like, here’s why people need help with productivity. They need help with becoming more efficient or just doing less. Like what would those three things be?
JF (21:56):
I think the main thing is we’ve divided it up into nine pillars, but there is so much in each one, but I think the most important thing that makes this course different is each one is short and sweet. So you literally can take what we talk about and go do it very similar to how my podcast is and the fact that it’s like these short, actionable things that you can do right away. So we’ll start off with what’s in the productivity guide is about your to-do list, the different steps that I go through, that the different from what other people do, and just even organizing your to-do list, focusing on certain things, getting those knocked out first. So they don’t turn into the big, ugly, scary monsters, and just working through that list every single day. But there’s stuff in there from working with your team, how do you organize your organiz
JF (22:51):
Bills in your organization? Like all sort like it runs the gamut because there are so many things that I have learned from running all these businesses and of course, feedback from other business owners that I’ve helped. But I mean, there’s a calendar in there that just talks about what to do on the 10th, the 25th, once a year, once a quarter. And I feel like that has been a huge help for people because when you’ve got a checklist, just print it out, you pin it up on your board and you’re just like, oh, that’s the day. Gotta get that done today.
AJV (23:20):
Oh, that’s so good. So I have to add three questions about that and kind of like back to these three things that you should do. So I think you said a couple of things there I’m gonna like tee in of like knowing you and knowing your content, like three things. So the first one is this to do list. Yes. So if you were to say, if I was just gonna give you one tip right now to everyone listening of like, here’s one thing you should do to better maximize your to-do list or however it is that you would say, it’s like, what’s the one thing on the to-do list that we need to know.
JF (23:48):
Definitely do the stuff that makes you money. First. I think sometimes we get lost in the busyness and the easy stuff, but really you’ve gotta make sure that stuff that has the firm date deadline and the stuff that makes you money has to get done first. But sometimes that’s the stuff that we per procrastinate the most. So that’s huge do those things
AJV (24:08):
First. So do the things that make you money first. Everything else is second to that short sweet, but that’s super helpful. Just being able to look at every single thing that you have to do on a day in a week, in a month and go, which ones of these things actually co correlate to dollars sense. Absolutely that first. Okay, awesome. Super, super tangible. And again, it’s just a mental processing of when there’s so much to do, where do I start? We start with what makes you money? That’s good. Okay. Now you mentioned something else that I laughed out loud about organizing your organization. What, what is that?
JF (24:47):
So that is, you know, a lot of people are still like a sole proprietor and it’s like, should you be something else? Should you be a different entity? What, what should you even be? So we go over a little bit of that. And I also talk about, you’ve gotta create your of people. You’ve gotta get your accountant. You’ve gotta get your attorney. You’ve gotta get these people because you are gonna be talking with them a lot. And we don’t know what we don’t know. So you need a good team of people to protect you because you’re gonna make some mistakes and they can prevent you from making some costly ones.
AJV (25:25):
Oh yeah. So it’s just like making sure it doesn’t matter if you’re a, a one person show or you have a team of a hundred, it’s like, like these are all the people that touch all the parts. It’s my attorney, it’s my financial person. It’s my CPA. It’s, you know, whatever. Right. We’re walking through it. Okay. So it’s getting everything organized in a way and in a place where it’s like, this is who I go to for what?
JF (25:51):
Exactly. Okay. Yep. And knowing who those who those people are, what roles do they fill?
AJV (25:56):
Okay. That’s awesome. But yeah. And I think that’s really good. It’s like that also helps you uncover any gaps.
JF (26:02):
Absolutely.
AJV (26:03):
Yeah. Like as an entrepreneur I’m a part of EO entrepreneurs organization here in Nashville and I still find it so amazing how I’ll be in like these small group discussions with other entrepreneurs and people don’t have an actual attorney. Like people don’t have a formalized tax person and they have multi seven figure businesses and they’re still kind of just winging it. I’m I personally am way too OCD for that. So but it, it is amazing to me. It’s like, for so many of us, it’s like, we’ve been successful in spite of ourselves. And there’s a certain point where it’s like, okay, I actually have to create some formality to what I’m doing in case of X, Y, and Z. So organizing your organization, making sure you’ve got the right people in place to take care of the things when and if needed. Okay. Second awesome thing. Okay. Third thing. And I’m just like super curious about, is you talk a lot about email in terms of time saving tips, other than email, what do you think is the other next biggest thing that people need to work on? Who are entrepreneurs our small business owners to get their life back in check?
JF (27:17):
Well, I think the most important thing is finding some sort of software to keep track of everything because cause we, a lot of us keep so much stuff in our head and then we wonder why we’re so stressed out, why we forget things, why people are like, you’re never listening to me. And so being able to put all that stuff somewhere, whether that’s a calendar, you know, some sort of, you know, con bond, board, whatever that looks for you, having a holding place where you can put all those ideas. So that way, you know, when you’re ready to come back to them, you haven’t forgotten them. And I think it’s something there’s so many things that are just, it’s simple and you’re like that can’t work because it’s so simple, but that’s what does work,
AJV (28:01):
Do you have some favorite softwares?
JF (28:03):
I do. I do. I love Asana, but I’m testing out a new one that is called click up and I’m very intrigued. So I’m kind of, I’m kind of looking at it dabbling a bit to see if it’s a better match to, you know, bring all these things, you know, and all of our team together to see if it’s a better fit.
AJV (28:23):
Okay. So Asana’s the one that you’ve been using, but you’re kind of like testing with click up. Would you say that click up would be like super comparable to Asana?
JF (28:33):
It’s very similar, but there’s different things about it, which I think kind of make it even cooler is that you can import like all this stuff. Like I’m always on the hunt for like, what’s a hub that my team can use where everything comes into that and goes out of it. And I think that that software might be it now. It might not once we, you know, get into it and see, but I’m always on the hunt to see, you know, what people are creating. I mean, it is fascinating what people are coming up with. I agree. Cause I’m excited to test it out and see if it works for us.
AJV (29:06):
That’s awesome. We use at brand builders group internally, we use monday.com. Yes. Very similar. Yeah. So super similar. But we integrated monday.com into our daily operations, maybe a year and some change ago, it has revolutionized our lives. It’s like, we literally, like we run every single meeting now off of our Monday boards. Awesome. And its like, but it’s to that point, it’s like, it’s like even we a year and a half ago as a multi seven figure business were running all of our project management out of email.
JF (29:42):
I know it’s and there’s so many
AJV (29:44):
Crazy that
JF (29:44):
Too,
AJV (29:45):
It’s crazy. Crazy, bad, not crazy good. And so we totally shifted everything to the goal of 2021 for us was get organized right. As an entity. And it took a whole year to get everyone re acclimated, had situated, getting all the boards loaded. But now I literally look at these and I’m like, how are we functioning? Like, like how are we actually functioning as a company? Even as me for an individual like I, like one of the things that I do is I have Monday boards with my EA. So I have visibility into what she’s doing. And so of saying, Hey Maggie, what are you doing today? Hey, Maggie, are you doing today? It’s like, go look for yourself on the Monday board. So, so much of that is about creating transparency and work activity and communication. So. All right, well I’m super interested to hear what you find with click up.
AJV (30:37):
So make a personal note to let me know what you find click up. So all right. Well I know we just have a couple of more minutes here together. And so I’m curious with just one or two other quick things for our listeners that I think would be so super cool. And again, as a reminder to everyone Jill’s offered up this really cool free guide, go to scale your small business.org Ford slash clear. We’ll put that in the show notes, her course goes live on April 7th, April 7th, April 7th which is just a few days from the launch of this episode. So you can learn more about that too, at scale, your small business.org. You can check that out if you’re so inclined. But okay. So as we kinda wrap up here, Jill, so I’m really curious for the everyday small business owner, an entrepreneur who does not think they need a personal brand, what’s your thoughts on that?
JF (31:35):
Well, you probably already are. You just don’t realize it. And so you’ve really gotta shift your perspective and that you are, and everything that you’re doing or not doing is affecting your reputation, even though you don’t realize it. And so really getting a handle on that whole idea will shift the way that you do things, the way that you respond to things and making sure that you really have all your stuff organized and together, because if you’re a disorganized mess, people know it. They can see,
AJV (32:14):
Even
JF (32:15):
Though you don’t realize they can,
AJV (32:17):
But you know, what’s so funny is like too, that for the person who’s going, like, I don’t need a personal brand. You’re saying, no, you already have one. You already are a personal brand. And if you’re a disorganized mess, maybe that is your brand. So, and
JF (32:31):
You probably wanna change it. You should wanna change it for
AJV (32:34):
Sure. Don’t that be your brand? But I think that’s a great point. I know that was a part of our conversations of it’s not whether or not you need one. It’s like, no, you already have one. It’s just, are you the one creating it or is it being created for you by other people’s perceptions? Absolutely. That’s good. All right. Last question of the day for you, and this is back this like concept of entrepreneurship and running and scaling small businesses. So it, this is, this does not have to do with productivity or time management or anything, but if you were to give just one piece of advice from all the businesses that you’ve started scaled sold, dismantled, like, what would you say is the number one lesson that you have learned that you will carry forward into the future when it comes to being an entrepreneur
JF (33:25):
Hire before you’re ready?
AJV (33:27):
Oh, that’s good. So tell, tell me more about that.
JF (33:31):
So a lot of times when I visit with people, they’re like, oh, I don’t have the money. Oh, I’m not ready. And I think by hiring someone that really pushes you forward and you, it takes a lot of things off your plate and allows you to really focus on your business. But for so many people, it’s just something that they’re like, oh, I can do it all myself. I got it, I got it. But you don’t got it. And by having someone, bringing someone in which, which has a fr fresh perspective on your business, the way that you’re doing things and by using software or, you know, whatever it is to empower them, your business can grow exponentially. But a lot of times like most things you gotta do it before you’re ready.
AJV (34:17):
Oh my gosh. Have you been talking to my husband? I have to feel like that that was planted in this conversation. Yeah. We literally had this talk last night. Advice heard if not for anyone else for me, I hear you. I’m with you, Jill. Thank you so much for being on the show. I’m so excited for this episode to go live. It, if you guys if, once you check this out, go get her free guide, go check out her course. Also check out the recap episode. That’ll be just sharing my top points and highlights from this Jill. So honored to have you in my life. So happy you’re on the show. Thank you so much. And to everyone else we will catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 269: Turning Your Struggles into Your Story with Chris Norton | Recap Episode
RV (00:03):
Wow. You can only be more grateful when you hear stories like that, of Chris Norton and what an incredible story and a powerful interview and so many great reminders that extend, you know, far beyond, far beyond what we’re doing in terms of building a business and building a personal brand to just being grateful for life and, and being grateful for the ability to walk and put your clothes on and go for a run and throw your kids up in the air. And I just, I love, I love it’s. One of the things I love about this industry is that you meet so many people that are like that. I mean you know, we just, I have friends that have overcome so much you know, our friend Hal Elrod died one of our friends, Danny Bader, that is a brand builder member.
RV (00:57):
He, he died for a few minutes, like we’ve got you know, John O John O’Leary is one of my dearest friends. I just love that man. And he was burned on a hundred percent of his body and he just, you hear these amazing stories of people just overcoming and it’s just such great, great perspective on life and business, and, and then watching people of like that turn their, turn, their pain into purpose, right. Turn their struggle into their story. And what a beautiful moment to, to, you know, see someone like Chris, be able to go through something so hard and now know that he’s traveling the world, telling the story about how he overcame that. And through that he makes enough money to provide for seven children, six adopted and one foster at this point. But they’ve, they’ve did you catch that in the interview where he talked about, they have had 19 foster kids that, I mean, that’s incredible how that’s extraordinary and just super inspiring.
RV (02:07):
So if you didn’t listen to the, the interview about Chris, go back and, and, and listen to it, make sure you hear this story about how his life changed in a minute in a second, a split second. He got paralyzed in, in a football game and, and it changed his whole life. But for me I’ll just share my big highlights, some of the biggest reminders that really stuck out to me. First of all, th this one, you know, I grabbed, I, when I was taking notes, when I was listening, I, I didn’t realize that I would come back and, and grab this, but this was kind of a quick moment and a subtle moment when, and Chris was telling a story, but I looking back through my notes, I realized how monumental of a decision. This is in a split second.
RV (02:58):
And so happens is, you know, he, he gets paralyzed. He has a four hour surgery. The next day he wakes up, he’s coming out of you know, he’s basically coming back to consciousness and he asks the surgeon, am I ever gonna walk again? And the surgeon says, you know, you only have a 3% chance of even in being able to move, let alone walk, like being able to move a finger or an arm, let alone walk. And and the, the split second decision that he made, which he kind of buzzed right through when he was telling the story was, he said, you know, I decided that I was gonna do whatever it takes to be a part of that 3%. And, and he kind of just like tapped on that. But thinking about it after to me is like, that is that, that pivot point moment, right?
RV (03:54):
Where in, in it’s basically like his entire future was going to head in one of two directions based on basically a subconscious calculation, a subconscious decision that happens in this, this one moment of hopelessness to go either. I’m going to allow my nearly guaranteed fate to just take its course and be the 97% or to choose in a split. Second, I’m gonna be a part of the 3%. I am going to have a life that is different than most people in my situation, that I am going to find a way to do whatever it takes to become someone who achieves and has the thing that most people don’t have. And you might not ever be paralyzed. I hope you’re not. I hope you never find yourself in any kind of, you know, desperate and dire situation like that. But the thing that we all have in common with Chris is that all of us have to make those decisions.
RV (05:00):
We have to make that decision. At some point in our life, we have to make that decision to go. I don’t care what the statistics say. I don’t care what happens to the majority of people. I don’t care about how improbable or unlikely or impossible that this journey may be on. I’m going to do whatever it takes to be in that top 1%. I’m going to do whatever it takes to be the exception to the rule. I am willing to do whatever it takes to break free of the pack of the norm of the average of the statistics. And I will go out and achieve and, and, and, and have, and conquer the things that I feel called to have you made that decision, like listening right here right now, have you made that decision in your life?
RV (06:03):
Have you already come to the conclusion? Have you already arrived at the commitment to say, I don’t care what it takes? And I don’t, I don’t care what has happened to everybody else, whatever it takes is what I am willing to do, because that is a requirement of greatness. It’s a prerequisite of success. It is an absolute necessity. You can’t have it without that. Excellence is never an accident. It is always a decision. Have you made that decision? So that was a great reminder for me, the second thing. And he said this several times, which was just, you’ve heard this before. I’ve heard this before. I’ve said it before. You’ve probably said it before. But to, to reexperience this in the realness of the situation that Chris was in, is he talked about being focused on what you can do, not worrying about what you can’t do. And, and, and not just, not only worrying about what you can’t do, but not count don’t count what you can’t do. Don’t measure what you can’t do. Don’t all the things you can’t do. Don’t focus on the things you can’t do. Don’t don’t think about the things you can’t do. Don’t allow yourself to be consumed with what you can’t do, rather instead, focus on what you can do.
RV (07:43):
Think about what you can do, plan what you can do, appreciate what you can do. Take action on what you can do live in what you can do, appreciate what you can do. Sit in gratitude and revel in gratitude and revel in the marvelous wonder of everything that you can do. If you do that, you’ll be happy. You’ll be grateful, no matter what your situation is. And that hit me so much when he was saying, you know, people walk up to me on the street, you know, even now, and they just say, oh, I feel so, so sorry for you. And, and I would too. I do too. When I, I see people and, and he nailed it, right? It’s that happens because we’re projecting our fears are, we’re like our insecurities of what, how we would maybe respond in that situation. But I don’t get even a shred even, I don’t even get a sliver of sense that Chris is unhappy.
RV (08:50):
I mean, definitely was a dark road there, right? I mean, he talked about every bit of, it sounds like it took every bit of four years to, to get out of that, but like where he is today with kids and impacting lives and running a business and you know, married and getting to speak and do the things that he wants to do. I mean, I don’t get a, a sense of all that he’s unhappy and that’s because he’s focused, he focused on what he can do. He continues to focus on what he can do. He’s grateful for what he has. And that’s inspiring to me to go, how much should I, how much more in my life could I afford to be that way? Like, there’s so much that I have in my life that other people and have, and I so quickly and easily overlook them.
RV (09:41):
And, and there’s, there’s even so many things I have in my life today that were faint dreams of what I had when I was younger. That would be it, it would be impossible. Things that I never thought would become true that are my actual reality every day. And I step over them as if they were nothing. I look past them as if they weren’t even there. I don’t even stop for a second to say, thank you, God. Thank you, wife. Thank you friends. Thank you family. Thank you kids. Thank you. Business partners like you for what I have
RV (10:25):
And, and Chris does, and that’s, that’s what part of what makes him amazing and, and just extraordinary and inspiring. And so I hope you’re doing that. I hope you’re doing that. I hope you’re not stepping over those things and taking the smallest, the smallest, smallest things for granted. And and then the third thing, which again, is something you’ve heard before. Something you’ve probably said, certainly something I’ve heard something. I talk a lot about that. We talk a lot about at brand builders group, but it hits different in the context of a real life situation like this, which is the power of service, the power of service. There is something so deep and profound and, and powerful AB about a spirit of service. And when Chris shifted his conversation, like in his own mind, when he SHA changed his thoughts, when he started realizing that his actions and his behaviors were affecting other people that gave him the fuel to keep going.
RV (11:45):
And it is, I believe this is the well that we all want to be drawing from. This is the source that we want to pull, like, you know, our inspiration from, and that we wanna pour, pull our motivation from, because if it’s money, you’ll get some money and it’ll wear off. If it’s, if it’s fame, you’ll get some fame and you’ll realize it’s not that big of a deal. Like, but if, if you are J genuinely concerned about contributing to the betterment of humanity, if, if you are actually deeply aware of the impacts that your behaviors and your attitudes, even, and your thoughts but certainly your actions and your behaviors have on the people around you, it causes you to live differently, to live, to live more aware, to be more alive, to be more astute. And, and also to be more powerful, to be more commanding, to be, to be more bold, to be more confident, to have more perseverance or right.
RV (12:57):
It’s easy to let ourselves down. It’s tremendously difficult to let down somebody else it’s so much more inspiring and compelling to, to want to benefit other people. And so if you can find a way to live in that spirit of service every day for your life and for your business, you can overcome just about anything. Chris is a real life example of that, but when we’re burn out, when we’re scared, when we’re tired, when we are exhausted, when we’re overwhelmed, we’re only thinking about ourselves in those moments, we have completely lost sight of how our life has value in the con has the most value when it is placed in the context of another human life.
RV (13:52):
When we’re present to that, the pain, the challenges, the difficulties they wan, they, they, they start to lessen. They don’t go away, but they, they pale in comparison to the positive impact that we’re having on somebody else. As, as we say, around here a lot, there is no fear when the mission to serve is clear. So are you clear, are you clear on who you’re serving and not just, are you clear, but are you present to it? Are you mindful and conscientious and deliberate and intentional and aware and focused on who you are serving and realizing the,
RV (14:52):
The echo that your IM that your behaviors have on their life. Because if you are, then you’re probably operating from a place of endurance and perseverance and strength and persistence, because it’s not so easy to give up when, you know, there’s someone that’s to, depending on you. And so we gotta get present to that. We gotta get present to the idea, you know, these three ideas, we gotta get present to the idea that I’m going to commit to being different from the ordinary, that I am going to pay attention to what I can control and not worry about what I can’t control and that I am going to place my life in the context of others through the way of service in that these decisions will help me be more grateful. These decisions will give me more endurance. These decisions are the decisions that lead to success to achieve my it conquering, but even bigger than that, they li they lead to happiness and they lead to peace.
RV (16:04):
So I hope you were inspired as much as I was by the Chris Norton story. And by all the stories of all the great guests that we have here every single week, if you haven’t yet, please go leave us a review on iTunes or Stitcher, wherever you listen. So that O other people know what they can experience, what they can expect to experience the kinds of amazing stories, just like this one that they will hear if they, to subscribe to this podcast and share this episode, like this episode, specifically share this with somebody the, who needs encouragement and inspiration and, and send this to them, and just either send them the link or go onto iTunes and, and copy the link from there and send them and say, listen to this episode. And this story about Chris Norton have a great one. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 268: Turning Your Struggles into Your Story with Chris Norton
RV (00:02):
Well, one of the joys of my life of being a speaker is that I get to see other speakers and my entire life I’ve come across speakers, who I’ve gotten to know personally who have climbed Mount Everest and walked out of the Andy’s mountains on barefoot and won, you know, national championships and world championships, Epson just overcome really amazing things. And today I feel like I’m, I’m meeting one of those people for the first time. You’re about to meet Chris Norton. We new friends, so we’ve never even talked. But I have been familiar with his story. He knows my friend Tyler Dickerhoof and you know, a lot of the same people and some of the same circles that we’ve been. We’ve been hanging out with David nurse. And I’ve heard really great things about Chris and he had a a spinal cord injury when he was playing college football and lost all feeling and movement from his neck down.
RV (01:02):
He was only given a three chance of ever really moving and walking again. And it was, you know, clearly a, a difficult and dark moment in his life. But with the support of his friends and family like you know, his, the love of his life, Emily Chris proved the Dr. Wrong. He walked across the stage at graduation and the video of that went viral like around, around the world. And later he walked his, his bride, Emily seven yards down the aisle at their wedding. So his story has been published in, in a book. It was been a documentary about his life story is out right now on Netflix and Amazon prime and apple TV. It’s called seven yards referring to the seven yards of Chris walking, his wife down the aisle, seven yards, the Chris Norton story. And he is a, a, a really fast rising speaker and just an awesome guy. It’s a Chris, it’s great to meet you. Welcome to the show.
CN (02:07):
Yeah. Thank you, Rory, for having me and for that great introduction. And it’s just an honor to talk with you and I’ve heard so many great things about yourself, so great to be here.
RV (02:17):
So tell me your, so tell me this story, man. So you are living the dream. You’re playing college. One, one moment. You’re playing college football and then in a second it changes.
CN (02:28):
Yeah, absolutely. So I’ll take you back. 11 years ago, freshman year Luther college in decor, Iowa live the dream. I had these big plans for myself, be this all American football player, meet the girl, my dreams. And then I was hoping to make enough money to on a lake house or better yet the girl of my dreams family already on lake house. But then you know, life happens and it was during the sixth game of my college football season, a third quarter were mounting a comeback. So I ran out to the field and a kickoff and the kicker huddles us up. He calls a play mortar kick, right. Which is simply a, a short, high arching kick to the right side of the field. And I don’t know why would, didn’t just call it kick, right? Because our kicker was so bad. Every kick was short and high arching, but yeah, anyway, you know, I’m pumped because I play on the right side of the field.
CN (03:23):
So it’s my opportunity to make an impact. That’s why I line up the boss kicked. I sprint down, feels hard as I possibly can go. I see an opening for me and my instincts are telling me that ball carrier, he’s in, try running through that gap. I gonna stop. I’m gonna drive my shoulder so hard through his legs. He’s gonna drop the ball. I go for it. I collide with him at full speed, full force, but I miss time my tackle by a split second, instead of getting my head in front of the ball, carry my head, cor collides, right with his knees in an instant, I was all feeling a movement for my I’m. Listening to the players, crashing to each other above me. Now the whistle blows, the pile clears off, but I can’t get up no matter how hard I try to push through my arms and onto the ground, nothing is working. I was completely conscious. Not in any pain, just couldn’t move. It felt like someone just flipped the power off to my body. And what I didn’t know at the time was I just suffered a severe spinal cord injury in my life was about to drastically change.
RV (04:39):
So the was the reason you weren’t any pain was just cuz you lost all feeling.
CN (04:46):
Yeah. So your spinal cord the, the nerve nervous system, it communicates with your brain. So pretty much it got almost completely severed where even all pain feeling, everything was disconnected temporarily from the neck down. So that’s why I couldn’t feel any pain, anything, no movement was because of the damage done to the spinal cord.
RV (05:11):
Wow. So, so what happens next? So they clearly, they wheel you off the field. You start going to doctors and getting tests and like when, when when’s the first time that you hear that you’re not gonna be able of the walk again.
CN (05:26):
Yeah. I’m flown out to Mayo clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Get x-ray all these tests done to get me ready for surgery. And it was right before surgery. I haven’t been asking questions. I’ve been too scared to ask, like what’s gonna happen because I wanted to make sure they had all their, all the information that they needed to give me the best answer possible. At least the most informed answer possible. And when I asked the surgeon right before I put the slate, you know, Hey, will I walk again? And in my mind that’s a huge compromise. I, I was, you know, praying and bargaining with God. Like, Hey, I will give up sports. I don’t need to play another sport in my life, which at the time, like that’s a huge deal. Like I, I was an athlete. That was my identity. I love competition.
CN (06:14):
I love competing and the weight room, everything involved with athletics. I love, and I could give that all up, but just let me walk. And when I ask him that I could just see in his face, the answer was no. And he just looks down at the ground and says, I don’t know. And then I’m put to sleep after that. And I, when he said that too, I just started crying. Like I lost it. I was like really holding it in trying to be tough, trying to be strong, trying to be optimistic that things are gonna be okay, it’s gonna work out because leading up to this point, everything always worked out for me. I never had gone through anything. Life altering, not even, not myself or even people close to me. It just wasn’t on my radar that something like this could happen to me. I thought it happened to people you read about in the newspaper, you watch on television, but not my life. I thought I was immune to that and it was just my world was just shattered in that moment. And then I wake up the next day blurry.
RV (07:17):
So how long were you, how long were you in surgery?
CN (07:21):
The surgery lasted about four hours. Wow. And then I, I wake up, you know, the next day, you know, groggy, blurry, eyed thinking. I just had the worst nightmare of my life. But then, you know, the surgeon comes in and confirms my worst nightmare is now my new reality. And he says, Chris, you have a 3% chance to ever move or feel below the neck. And that’s not a 3% chance to walk. That’s a 3% chance to move or to feel, to scratch and itch on your face to feed yourself. And it was just so surreal. I, I could hardly process it because yes, at this time I was walking now I was suiting up for my college football game. And then all of a sudden I’m lying in the hospital, paralyzed from my neck down with a 3% chance to ever move or feel again. And I’m.
RV (08:12):
And so you can’t move your, you can’t move your hands, your toes, you can’t raise your arm. You’re just completely still, but totally conscious and full mentally aware.
CN (08:22):
Yeah, completely. Wow. Like I know how to move my body. Like I know what it takes to, you know, move my hand in my face or to adjust my leg or pull the covers up. But like literally nothing would respond or work. I felt like I was ahead detached for my body and just looking at the rest of body, it was just a foreign object because I had no connection to it at all.
RV (08:48):
So the doctor tells you that. So that happens like within a day or two. And then, and then how long are you in the hospital? And like, when do you, when do you come home? Cuz I have to think it starts to really become real when you leave the hospital and like your whole life is different. I mean can’t shower, can’t eat, can’t get dressed.
CN (09:10):
Yeah. It was a, a slow than just kind of a grind from that moment on of I’m gonna do whatever it takes to get a little bit better. I’m gonna be part of that 3%. I won’t be that 97% who don’t recover from this. And so I just make that commitment of just understanding that, you know, your future will take care of itself when you take care of today. And I kept reminding myself that your future will take care of itself when you take care of today. And so I just kept trying to get a little bit better each and every day. And you know, by the, you know, grace of God and perseverance and grit, family and friends, I slowly started to make a recovery where I had some movement in my legs, some movement in my arms, unable to like walk independently or do much.
CN (09:55):
I depend independence wise. But I was inpatient for about four months outpatient for about three months. And that was all in Rochester, Minnesota, which is about three hours from my home. So when I officially made that move back home in Des Moines, Iowa, it was a huge transition like you’re suggesting going from, you know, your house, you know, my room was upstairs. So I I’ve never been back to my, my bedroom because I can’t it’s stairs. And just realizing all these obstacles that you have to navigate. And the way of life, you have to look at it from an accessibility mindset and of not just being able to breeze over opposite goals. So it was definitely a large change. But thankfully, you know, my parents were very encouraging. They, they pushed me to get outta my comfort zone and they weren’t gonna let me just, you know, stay home and you know, feel sorry for myself.
CN (10:50):
They got me out there and eventually I went back to college, actually the following fall and my buddies became my caregiver and my sister relocated to apartment just off campus to help with a huge transition. And then slowly started to kind of get my life back together. And, and that’s when I started to realize too, like, you know, happiness is not measured in steps, right there there’s people who can run, jump and swim who are unhappy. So, you know, clearly happiness has nothing to do with your fits strength or possession, everything to do with your mindset and your mental health. And I began to, to see those pieces as I kind of got my life back into a new routine.
RV (11:31):
How, how soon did you really embrace that? I mean like, I mean, there’s gotta be, I mean, have to feel like there’s that some there’s like this wave of hopelessness and despair, right. Has to be of like, oh my gosh, like I’m not gonna be running and jumping maybe ever again, maybe walking, never again to, to, to, to then going, well, that doesn’t mean I can’t be happy ever again. And realizing like what you just shared that like, there’s a lot of people who can do those things who are unhappy.
CN (12:05):
Absolutely. so it, wasn’t a flip of a switch. I’ll tell you that and know me talking about it might make it sound easy and it’s not for anybody who’s gone through something life altering, it, it takes time to kind of pick up the pieces and to learn a new, a new way of living and a new beginning really kind of restarting your life. And it, it took years actually for me to come to that conclusion that, you know, I can still live a meaningful life, you know, adversity and failure are a part of life. And if you try holding onto it, it’s gonna Rob you of your future. Now things will never be perfect, but just because you aren’t getting the results you want or living the life you dreamed of doesn’t mean you stop trying, or that’s not a life we’re living for.
CN (12:53):
And so by, you know, getting back out there, getting my education, being with my buddies, starting to date again, met Emily started my own foundation, started speaking. I began to see, you know, I could still live a meaningful life right from my wheelchair. And at first, when I was first injured and even those first couple years, I thought that would be impossible. Like for me to get my life back meant me getting back to walking on my own, no wheelchair. And so if I wasn’t gonna be walking, being in a wheelchair would mean failure. And that for some reason I thought that I would not be a good enough person or I would not be seen as valuable by being in a wheelchair. But I put in my self out there building friendships, relationships starting the business, getting back to others, serving others.
CN (13:42):
I begin to realize, you know, that’s, that was a lie. It’s not true. I was attached to this idea that you have to be walking to live a good life and it’s just not true. And I know it gets portrayed all the time though. I mean, I go out in public, I get P people all the time. I don’t hold it against them, but they’re always like, man, I feel so sorry for you. Oh my gosh, you’re in a wheelchair like, oh man, I, I can’t imagine like they’re, they’re very sympathetic. And I, cause they’re kind of projecting their own fears like onto me that I think about it all the time and that I’m miserable all the time and I’m not like I, I focus on what I can do and, and what people don’t fail to realize too, being in a wheelchair and having a spinal cord injury actually have some CRA perks to it.
CN (14:26):
And in fact, like a couple of my favorite perks is like, you can, there’s no standing in line. Like while people are waiting in line complaining that their feet hurt, their legs are tied. You know, I’m just chilling my chair. Like this is really, or like when you go somewhere, there’s a front row parking spot for like, you get the best parking now where I live in south Florida, it’s really competitive here for those parking spots. You, you hear little things like that and you can’t feel mosquito bytes. I can have 30 mosquitoes on my legs at a campfire now. I don’t feel a thing. It’s awesome. So there’s so many little things that you can find in your life to appreciate if you have the will. And that’s what I’ve really kind of develop the muscle for is focusing on what I can do.
CN (15:12):
Where are the areas that I can influence and make a change and, and not keep my attention on what I, I can’t control or what I, I can’t do. And that’s easier said than done. Obviously, like there are definitely moments where I’m just like, man, this sucks. Like I see my kids playing in the pool. I wanna jump in there. I wanna throw ’em around. I want to play catch with them with the baseball and teach. ’em How to swing a bat. There. There’s so many things, you know, like that are hard and frustrating, but I have to then just go back to okay, what kind of dad can I be? What, what kind of husband can I be? Not the one I wish I could be. You can still be a great dad, even though I’m, I’m not in the pool with him or I’m teaching, ’em how to throw a ball. And so there’s definitely things that you have to just embrace and accept, but that’s that’s life too, right there. There’s things that you have to just learn to let go of, if you wanna live a meaningful, purposeful life.
RV (16:08):
And you said that like the first year or so, was that, was it like a year or two to where you really started to come around? Cuz I can sense that just in talking to you that you, you know, you’re not unhappy, you’re really happy. You’ve got all these great friendships and you’ve got kids and a family, like you’re doing all these great things with your business. Is, is it, was it like a year or two to get to that point?
CN (16:30):
Yeah, it was, it was big, very gradual. You know, it is just little moments that just kept, you know, opening my eyes to that possibility of like, well maybe if I don’t walk, I’ll still be okay. And it takes time. It took, yeah, like I said, years, probably three or four years to really come to terms with that. Probably probably more like maybe four years to really come to terms with that like peacefully where I stopped holding onto this idea of, I must walk and cause I trained all the time I was putting in you know, even with full load of school credits, you know, sometimes six to eight hours of training on top of college and trying to do everything to live a college experience. Like I was obsessed with working out and trying to get my strength back and you know, I’m glad I did.
CN (17:28):
I’m glad I tried it cuz I can look back now and say, you know what? I gave it a try. I tried to get as much strength back as possible. And I, I brought myself a long ways, but it, it just wasn’t in the card. Like at some point you kind of realized Theios in the wall that you need to make a transition, right? You need to make a pivot. And that’s what I did. And I started to focus more on contributing back to others, serving others through my motivational speaking that I love to do. And through my foundation, the Chris Norton foundation, and then we, you know, began fostering and adopting. So I have a load of kids like seven kids right now, bro.
RV (18:03):
Wow, wow. Seven kids.
CN (18:05):
Yeah. And then like documentary and the books. And so I’m just trying to give back, serve others. I feel like I was called to do this and to use my story and my testimony to give people hope and to see the possibilities, even with the adversity that they’re facing, even when their lives have completely been flipped upside down, there is still a way forward. Even it’s not the way that you wanted to go.
RV (18:34):
Wow, man. What a, what an amazing perspective. Like, so, so walk us through like the, a little bit of your personal brand story. Like, so this happens to you. So like what year does this happen? And then is the first like real big development. They filmed you at graduation and that went viral. Was that kind of like the first like, whoa, my story is inspiring. A lot of other people,
CN (19:00):
It actually happened right when it took place with my injury. So my family when I was injured, a lot of people were messaging them. Like, what’s the updates? Like how, how Chris doing today? Like, is there any progress? And instead of messaging back individually, like a hundred people, they started what’s called like a caring bridge page. It’s pretty much just like an online blog set up for families who are updating others on a, when they’re in the hospital or something. So you don’t have to you know, like I said, message everyone individually. So they post updates on what I was doing, what the family was doing, the progress. And people began following that blog very closely. I think it had like 400,000 hits or something of people just following along this story and how people were inspired by my attitude that I was gonna beat the, and I was gonna get better and I wasn’t gonna quit.
CN (19:54):
And stop working and people were writing like, Hey, like I, I stopped going to church. I’m dealing with depression. And after, you know, hearing your story, it’s given the courage to, to get back out there to, to go back to church or to, to find a job or to pick up my, although it may feel broken at the moment. And so when you start reading these stories and you’re being told how, you know, just me trying to get better, I wasn’t trying to be an inspiration. I was just trying to get my life back. But when people are writing to you and saying like, they have a different perspective on life because of how you live yours, like, wow. Like that gave me motivation. That gave me more is cuz there were times when I wanted to give up on myself where I wanted to quit.
CN (20:37):
But when I thought about the other people who were looking to me for inspiration and hope, I didn’t want to give up on them. I, I wanted them to find their own courage through me. And so that’s why I kept going a lot of cases and why I keep even going today. Just feel like there’s an opportunity to inspire others. So that’s all to say that next year. Maybe like a small group, like an FCA group at a high school, like, Hey, can you share your testimony with us? Like how do you stay positive and get through your, your challenges? And so I started just sharing my story just very off hand, just from the hip and people were leaning in, they were listening. They, they wanted to know what I had to say about life and staying hopeful and how to get through adversity.
CN (21:24):
And I liked it. I liked the fact that they, they were leaning in, they wanted to know more and I could, you know, kind of captivate an audience and entertain them and, and give them the tools to, to improve their lives. And like this feels good. And then someone told me, Hey, you know, you can make money by being a motivational speaker. Like what you can get paid to just beat the people on a stage. I thought that was just like a, like an honor or like a privilege just to get up there. And it’s like a free thing. And like, no, like this is something people do for a living full time. And if it’s something you you want to do, you could, you should definitely pursue it. And ever since I heard that and I knew I could, you know, make a living from helping others and living out my purpose, like sign me up. And so I started just speaking everywhere. I could, I mean, anybody who would listen and doesn’t matter how small the group was or how far away I, I wanted to share my story and testimony and it just kind of snowballed into, you know, a business that can take care of my whole family and live comfortably.
RV (22:27):
So yeah. So is the, so with those fairly early speaking engagements, like you, you start out doing ’em for free. How many do you think you did before you started charging? And did you just kind of like, did most of the people find you just from hearing your story from other people and they came to you or did you have some way of contacting them and finding them?
CN (22:47):
Yeah, it’s a little bit of both. So some of it, it was like go for the low hanging fruit, like my old high school and elementary and middle school, like get to speak to them. That’s pretty easy entry point or just a local elementary or church group. I just tried to reach out to as many people that I knew who had a group and that who would want bring in speakers. I, I did a ton of rotary clubs cause I know they would bring in guests and I would say, you know, 95% of those were all free. Just I knew I needed the practice. I needed the at bats. It wasn’t something that just came natural to me. I felt comfortable on stage, but I didn’t have a, I just like charismatic, entertaining way of doing it unless I practiced and worked on it.
CN (23:35):
I started videotaping every single speech so I could go back and watch it as painfully as I was. I knew I had to watch the film and then I, you know, started hiring coaches and people that could help, you know, transform my message and get me even further. And when I realized that, you know, to get more speeches, you have to have a, a killer speech. Like that’s how you get more. It’s, it’s a referral business. And I didn’t wanna depend on my viral moments or my story to, to get me in the door. I wanted my presentation and the transformation that can occur from it to be what opens a door for places. And I knew that was gonna be what would sustain my business long term. So think I’ve gotten good advice, good people around me to kind of point in the right direction and to get it to where he is today. But I don’t wanna my story to be well, it is, you know, what definitely draws people in to wanna hire me. It’s not what lifts my business, it’s the, the presentation and the, the time I feel that I put into it to make it very entertaining and humorous and, and uplifting.
RV (24:50):
And, and so, so talk us through the how does the Netflix thing happen? How, like how, how does a documentary come about? Was that something that you kind of went out and, and were seeking or did somebody come to you and like, what are the mechanics of getting a documentary film and putting it together? And how long does that take? Like the whole, the whole thing?
CN (25:11):
Yeah, it was a long process. It was after my graduation walk, video went viral, a small production company at a Dallas. The photo philanthropy was the name and they loved sharing, uplifting, inspiring stories. Now first they just offered, Hey, we would love, love to give you a gift by just filming your wedding. We would come there, they have, you know, professional cameras and a crew and capture it, maybe put together like a little short, inspirational video for people, but then they just kind of snowballed from that to let’s do a full below documentary. They done two before, so this would be their third one. And it was just the right timing. And so we began, you know, filming, promoting it even before the walk actually. So we named the movie seven yards before I could even walk seven yards. That was a little scary.
RV (26:05):
Wow.
CN (26:06):
But I knew it, it gave me something you for gave me something to really work on. But yeah, it’s a lot of so they’re a small production house. It’s not like a big Hollywood thing where they have a bunch of funding and money to do this or that basically what we had to do. It was a nonprofit. So basically we’d have to fundraise then we’d film a little bit. And then once money ran out, we stopped, you know, try to get some fundraising, get some money. And then once we did, we go out and do some more filming, so really stop and go stop and go strung together over years, really. Wow. Filming in 2017 and the movie came out in 2021 to kind of give you an idea of four years in the making wow. Before it happened.
CN (26:54):
But so we, we kept shooting, kept filming. They put it together, found an agent that would, you know, get, be able to get in the doors of somewhere like a Netflix and apple TV and Amazon prime. And thankfully by the, you know, Chris of God that Netflix wanted it. And so we were able to get it in there. And then at first I’m thinking it’s not a Netflix original. So, you know, some tie titles on their platform have the, the end in the corner and that’s a Netflix original film. They, they give the most marketing and promotion and, and back backing. Well, so this one’s just an independent title. So my mind it’s gonna get on there. It’s gonna get buried. Netflix is loaded with films, docu memories, all these things like no one’s ever gonna see it. And then it just exploded. Like it was on trending and popular. It started to receive thousands of messages of just how encouraged inspired they were from this film. So I was so blown away by the response to that, that film. And I’m so glad that it could get out there and really make a difference to many people.
RV (28:10):
That’s so that’s really, really cool. How much does it cost to, like how much fundraising, like what does it cost to film a documentary? Is it like millions of dollars? Is it a couple hundred thousand dollars?
CN (28:21):
It, I mean, it kind of depends on what you’re using and the different elements to it, but this one would be like 250,000, I think all in when you pay all the people involved, the,
RV (28:35):
All the editing, the equipment, the rentals, the travel, like it’s a ton of stuff,
CN (28:40):
Ton of stuff. And they were able to get it like a 250,000, which is considering, is on Netflix or what’s out there. That is a very low budget film.
RV (28:51):
Wow. That’s really, really cool, man. So like so what now? So what, what next? So you have seven kids. So you normally got married. You’ve, you’ve adopted seven kids
CN (29:05):
Adopted six and then we’re fostering one right now. So we have fostered a total of 19 kids in all. Wow. So that’s something that was a, a passion of my wife that she then passed on to me and helped open my eyes to all the kids who don’t feel loved, who are coming from abusive homes. And they’re either put with a fam foster family, they’re put into group homes, which is, you know, they used to call it orphanages. And now it’s, they’re called group homes. And so we, we just breaks our heart and we hear these stories of these kids needing a home and a place to go. They don’t feel loved and wanted and like they belong. And so try to help them to see their value and how loved they are by by us and by God and everybody it’s been a really neat calling and it’s really made our lives just gives us more me, these kids.
CN (30:01):
And, you know, we kind of went into it. We’re, we’re gonna help them, but you know, they, they give just as much back to you just having them in your lives, they’re all very special and, and unique. So that’s been an incredible thing. That’s and then what’s next though. Yeah. Is sorry, add that too is yeah. Now I’m gonna do a an unscripted TV show now with Netflix of just how to help people find a way forward of how can you pick up the pieces of something life altering and continue down the road. So kind of like a, a fixer upper, but for the soul really is how we are calling it. So we’d like to get this show up and going and find a home for it. But that’s kind of my, my next project outside of speaking, like speaking’s always gonna be, I feel my number one thing. I love doing it, but I also want to get, do some more TV stuff and try to do something reality. TV wise, that’s meaningful and purposeful, and it’s gonna help people’s lives.
RV (31:06):
Yeah. I never, I guess I never even realized that that was how cuz that’s how the book business works. Right? You create a book proposal, get a literary agent, litera agent takes a proposal, shops it to publishers. They give you an advance and then you sell a bunch of copies are not your advance. And then you get royalties, I guess that that’s probably the same way a documentary is. They pay you some amount of money and then based on the streams or something, you get, you earn royalties after that.
CN (31:29):
There’s a lot of different ways to go about it. But that’s probably the basic way is you, you come up with a project and an idea, and then you hope that you get initial funding from like a big streaming platform, like a Netflix where they say, yeah, we want this. And then they’ll give you a budget. They’ll give you directors, producers, they’ll give you kind of a team of that. They kind of want you to work with, and then they let you kind of run with it or you come to them with a finished product. And you try to get that onto their, their platform with when when’s already finished. So there’s different ways to kind of go about it, but yeah, very similar to a book.
RV (32:11):
Yeah. Well that’s awesome, man. So you’re still like just speaking and, and maybe reality TV. Some, I love the fixer upper for your soul. Kind of an idea. I mean, there’s so many people that are hurting and broken and it just, it seems like you’re really just drawn to doing that work.
CN (32:31):
Yeah. I, like I told you about the kind of that transformation for me of thinking, oh my gosh, I’m in a wheelchair. Like my life is now over. I can’t do the things that I want to do. Like the fun has stopped. I’m not gonna be able to do anything exciting. Well, that’s not true. I, you know, I’ve been skiing and I’ve gone on jet skis and concerts and traveling what snorkeling and, you know, scuba diving and like there’s so many things, hiking, mountain climb, like there’s so many things I’ve been able to do and have a family and start a business. There’s that? I’m not like some I’m not cut from a different cloth. Like I’m just I’m from a small town in Iowa, just like, there’s nothing special about me other than just, I just try to focus on the possibilities to try to see way forward.
CN (33:19):
And, and thankfully too, I’ve had good people to help me too, kind of open my eyes to what is possible. And I want to help be that person for more people who feel like, oh my gosh, this life altering thing. Life is over. It stops now. Cause I’m not living the life that I pictured that it would look like. And so I want to break that bear for them and, and with a team of people to show them what is possible and empower them to, to continue to move forward. So that’s again a passion project now that I’m working on that there’s a lot of work ahead, but something that I’m hoping to get going,
RV (33:58):
Where do you want people to go, Chris, if they wanna connect with you and kind of follow your journey, like what’s the best place for them to, to keep up with you these days?
CN (34:05):
Yeah. I mean go to my website, Chris norton.org to learn even more about me and connect, but Instagram and Facebook are probably my two primary places that I update and, and share what’s going on.
RV (34:22):
Wow, man. It, it really is an inspiring story. And thank you for choosing to have that attitude and for continuing to see what’s possible. And cuz it is, it, it inspires me and I know it’s gonna inspire a ton of people, listen to this. And and I can sense you’re just getting started in the impact that you’re gonna have globally with, with sharing your story. So we’re, we’re grateful for, for you and your family and your wife and man, we just wish you the best stay, stay connected with us and, and let us know how we can help and just keep going, brother.
CN (34:59):
Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate that RO and like I said, it’s be here. Talk with you. I’ve always followed you and looked up to you as a, as a man, as a, as a business owner, husband, father, all those things. And so it’s great to be able to speak with you today.