Ep 291: How Personal Branding Is Changing the Sports Game with Mollie Marcoux Samaan | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey, welcome to another recap episode of the influential personal brand. This is the cliff notes version of my conversation with Molly Marco, Sam, who is the L PGA commissioner. She is a collegiate athlete in herself. She was like named a sportswoman of the year while she was at Princeton. She was also named one of the sports teams of the deck for high hockey Princeton. She has done so many incredible things for the world of sports and hyper specifically for women’s sports. And I just, I love my conversation with her and I’ll keep this short and sweet. I’m gonna try to keep this. I got five minutes if humanly possible. But there are three things right here are my three big takeaways. And this will was kind of like towards the end of our conversation, but I loved this and I think it’s applicable and no matter what your role is, right?
AJV (01:50):
So many of you listening are not professional athletes. Maybe you are, but most of you probably are not. But I love what she said is that every single person is a part of a team, right? It’s like your family unit, that’s a team. You’ve got your colleagues that work. That’s a team. You’ve got community groups, you have friend groups, you’ve got nonprofit groups, you have church groups, you’ve got social groups. It’s like, you have teams in your life. And sometimes you’re the star player. And sometimes you’re a utility player. And sometimes you’re a backup player, right. But we all play a part and that’s just a such a great, great reminder. Cause I know in the journey of building your personal brand you’re not always gonna get to be the star surprise, sorry. Don’t wanna have to burst your bubble there, but you’re not always gonna be the star.
AJV (02:36):
There’s gonna be a lot of work. Building your personal brand is a business like this is a business that needs to be treated like one, which means sometimes like what you’re gonna be doing is behind the scenes. And you’re not gonna feel like it’s making a PA an impact or a difference, but it is there are, there are different roles that you’re gonna fill on every team that you’re in and every season that you’re in. And I just, I loved that analogy of like you’re, you’re on teams. Right. and, and you play different roles in each of the teams and those, those roles change at different seasons. It’s just such a good reminder for me. It’s like, I need to remember that I am not always the star player. Right. And it’s like, I gotta let other people shine. And I have to take a backseat sometimes and sometimes I get to come forward regardless.
AJV (03:19):
I’m a part of a team and my role matters. And I, I love that thought. That was so good. The second thing that I thought was really significant is this shift that the LPGA is taking on the importance of making sure the stories of the players are known. Right. and I, you know, if you list into this podcast,
AJV (04:02):
She goes, I mean, what other, what other time in life are other humans literally jumping out of their seat, screaming and yelling for the successes of another person. Right. And it’s like, I’ve got my jerseys. Like, you know, I live in Nashville, Tennessee. It’s like me and my boys, like, we’ve got like our Derek Henry jerseys. We’ve got our eight EJ brown jerseys. We’re Tennessee Titans fans. And it’s like, we are cheering for these people. Like we’re taking their numbers and their names and we’re wearing them. Right. It’s like, it’s this community aspect of being a part of something. And that happens when you know the story. It’s like, yes, they’re amazing on the field. But it’s like, the more we get to know the story, the more I’m in it, in the team and in the game itself. So how is that true to you and your company, right?
AJV (04:46):
Like what if people were screaming up and down for the success of your sales team or your executive team or your customer service team, right. It’s like, that would be incredible. Right. But it’s like, we gotta help share the stories of the people on our teams. Right. And that includes companies, our leaders, our frontline employees, the executive, whoever it is, it’s like help us fall in love with you. And we can only do that when we get to see you and know you learn from you thus trust you. So, oh man. She was just, you know, speaking my language. And then the last thing that I thought she was said that was really impactful is love what you do get at it all the time. Like if you’re in the middle of something, stay present, be focused at being really good at what you’re doing, not focused on trying to get goods, you can do something else.
AJV (05:31):
And I, I so admire what she said. It’s like, I’ve never gone out looking for another job. I just focused really on the job that I have. I care deeply. I do a really good job. I wanna, I wanna see my team succeed and I’m focused on the here and now. So I, and I even like, I was like, you know, bring it up like three or four times. So what do you see next? She’s like, Nope, I am here. And now I need that in my life. I need to be more here and now, right. Not looking one year, five year, 10 years ahead. It’s like, no, I am focused on the team that I have right now. The business that I have right now, the audience that I have right now, it’s like, I am focused on you. I care deeply. I wanna be known for caring deeply.
AJV (06:11):
I wanna go, like, I wanna go and focus on what’s right in front of me, not just like what I wanna do in the future. It’s like, no, it’s like, it’s all about the here and now. And I think that’s a really great message for all of us. It’s like the work you’re doing right now matters, however, big or small your audience is, however, big or small your company is the work you’re doing right now for the team that you employ. And for the clients that you’re serving it matters right now. Say, stay focused on the here and now y’all go listen to this episode, Molly, me Simon. So amazing commissioner of the L PGA tour. Like it’s about to blow up. I’m so excited. So happy that I get to be a part of interviewing her at the beginning stages of this part of her journey. So go check out the whole episode and come back next time at the influential personal brand.
Ep 290: How Personal Branding is Changing the Sports Game with Mollie Marcoux Samaan
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. I am one of your co-host here at the CEO of brand builders group, but more importantly today I get to be the interviewer of a very special guest. And I’m so excited to introduce you guys to Molly MoCo Simon. And before I formally introduce her to you guys and let her share some of her brilliance and excellence, I, I have a formal bias, but I’m gonna read just some highlights out up. And if you guys listen to this often, you know, this is not something I typically do, but when I was reading through Molly’s bio, I was like, holy Nikes. I’ve gotta read some of this. So there’s some like, really amazing stuff in here. So currently Molly is the commissioner of the L PGA.
AJV (01:44):
And we’re gonna talk a little bit about how she got there and what does this all have to do with personal branding, but I’m gonna give you just a, a tiny bit of the back story of how she got to hear, and then I’m gonna let her share that as well, but she is a Princeton graduate and not just that, but a two sport varsity athlete, which I do not think is easy. I am not that skilled in the realm of athletics, but you were also named to the collegiate women’s ice hockey team of the decade, which is, I think is amazing. You were also you were also announced sportswoman of the year while you were there. You have then like you went on to had a more decade long career of a ver variety of different positions in the collegiate world, but then you came back to Princeton as the university’s family director of, of athletics.
AJV (02:36):
You did that for another, almost a decade, and it’s like, I could go on and on, but this is like, when I was reading your bio, I was like, oh my, my gosh, like you are truly an individual who has dedicated their entire life to sports and not just sports, but the discipline and the just work ethic that it takes to be that excellent at any one thing. And it wasn’t just one thing for you. It was so many different things. And so I’m amazed, like genuinely I was reading this time. I was like, I had no idea of all these things because you’re also really humble. And you don’t talk about any of that. So I gotta wanna introduce you so formally welcome to the show.
MMS (03:19):
Well, thanks AJ that was quite an intro, like, you know, bring you on the road with me as my best secretary. That was really nice. But again, the, the, the decade was the eighties, so it was a little different decade than today. So anyway, it was really fun and my joy and pleasure and life to be able to participate in two sports at Princeton and to play sports my whole life and have that opportunity. And yes, my, my whole life has been largely about sports. So you know, really grateful your shirt says grateful, which we just were talking about. And I try to be grateful every day in, in everything that I get to do.
AJV (03:51):
Oh my gosh. I just, I think that your accomplishments are incredible and now you’re leading an entire generation of female athlete in the, you know, field of golf. And I just, I find this too fascinating. And so I’m, I want everyone to know, it’s like, you heard a little bit about your background, but why the commissioner, why the LPGA tour?
MMS (04:11):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, I’ve had the pleasure, as I said, I’ve always had great jobs. I think when I, I always tell the story when I was graduating from college, my friends and I also sat around and we said, well, what, what would we like to be doing in five years? What would we like to be doing in 10 years, 15 years. And at every step of the way, I just put, you know, a really cool job in sports, a really cool job in sports, you know, at every, at every juncture, I, I knew that’s what I wanted to do. And I’ve had the great pleasure to have really cool jobs in sports, kind of in all parts of sports I worked in, right when I graduated, I did some stuff at a, at a boarding school and coached and worked in athletic administration.
MMS (04:44):
And then I worked for Chelsea Pierce, which is a big sports and entertainment complex in Manhattan and in Connecticut for almost 19 years. So really saw the amateur side of things and running big businesses and kind of working with athletes young and old at every level. And then having this really unique opportunity to go to prince. And obviously my Alma mater that I love and you know, really committed to the mission of education through athletics. That really is the cornerstone of the program there in the Ivy league, but also just at Princeton more broadly. And I was really, you know, going about my business really en enjoying the job despite the fact that it was COVID and those presented some, you know, that presented some really interesting challenges, but I got a full own call from someone saying, Hey, this is a, this is an opportunity that’s out there to be the L PGA commissioner.
MMS (05:27):
And you know, again, I, I love my job at Princeton, but this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to really in my mind impact sports, but really in particular impact women’s sports. I, I love golf. I’ve played golf my whole life and have Studi golf and think it’s a really unique sport, but mostly, you know, coming to at this at the way of like, this is a moment in time for women and women in sports that I think can really change not only sports, but change kind of the world and how people look at women and the talents that they have and the opportunities that exist in, in this world. So I, I you know, jumped at this chance and obviously convinced my family to make a pretty big move, to come down from New Jersey to Florida, which is a, you know, a big move for, for kids particularly, and my husband. So again, that, that grateful theme will, will run through everything I said and have this to live, to live my dreams, but hopefully more importantly to impact you know, the world of sports and impact specifically our, our women who play golf and also just young girls who play golf around the world.
AJV (06:28):
Oh, I love that. I love what you’re doing too. And for, for those of you listening, it’s Molly and I had the opportunity to meet because she, you heard me on another podcast, another Molly, a different Molly Molly Fletcher on the game changers podcast. And we got to connect and we’ve had a few pop conversations. And one of the things that is one of my passions, one of my goals for this year is to really break in to the world of professional sports when it comes to personal branding. Because I know rather during your tenure, as a professional athlete or post the impact of your personal brand, how many people know about you, like while you’re actually in the endeavor of your profession, it’s like, that has a lot to do with your income, right? Those are your brand deals, sponsorships negotiating pay raises because you bring the crowd with you, but then equally as important, if not more after, as you venture into, you know, your next endeavors post athletics.
AJV (07:30):
And so I’m curious with you this, this idea, this concept of personal branding, and I know, and everyone else knows, and this is no secret. It’s like female athletes make less than their ma than their counterpart male athletes. Like that’s no secret. We’re not like a whistleblowers here. That’s, that’s just, that’s a known fact. Right. So I’m curious, like, when you think about the world of sports and you think about women role in that, how much does a player’s personal brand matter when it comes to them being successful in terms of income and success and all of that?
MMS (08:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s, it’s absolutely critical. And I I’ve said this often, you know, when I was evaluating whether to jump into this position, I, I asked my kids, you know, to name five women on the LPGA and they could name a few and they, they weren’t, my kids aren’t necessarily, you know, serious golfers they’re they’re athletes and they’re engaged in the world of sports and they could only name a couple. And so that’s where I, I, I felt like, okay, I, I can really have an opportunity hopefully, to come and, and help these women elevate their, their own brands and elevate the brand, the L PGA brand more broadly, because at the end of the day in professional sports, that’s really what it’s all about in terms of getting eyeballs viewership getting people to engage with us. But I also think it’s about inspiring the next generation.
MMS (08:58):
Our women are so good at this game, you know, to be the best a hundred players or 150 players in the world. I mean, that’s pretty darn remarkable. How many times do you find someone who is the best? You know, we have people who are obviously the best, but also even the top hundred or 150. And I think world needs to know about them more because that will help obviously the LPGA in terms of our partnerships and our commercialization, but it’ll also help them. These are individual athletes who make their money in a number of different ways. They obviously make money by competing and by winning the prize money on the tour, but they also are the personal brands and the represe, there’s the ambassadors for a number of companies and a, a good portion of their income can come from that association from, from the brand.
MMS (09:42):
And, you know, we are getting a lot of traction in that area. People are seeing that these are amazing role models, and they can hit their, their corporate values or through their corporate identity to these remarkable women who are not only be very successful on their own, but inspiring that next generation of young girls to say, I can do this. You know, I can, I can compete at the highest level. I can be a very good person while I do it, and I can represent others brands along the way. So I think it’s really critical to their overall direct income, but it’s also really critical to the L PGA’s success more broadly, and our ability to have a positive impact on the world. So we’re really doubling down on that right now, trying to figure out ways to help them elevate their brands to help us elevate our own brand, which is really important.
MMS (10:28):
I think the L PGA doesn’t get as much credit as it should. We’ve been around 71 years. We’ve had amazing women for the, for longer than any other really profe women’s professional sport. We’ve done it kind of on our own. People have made a, a living, a good living and have, like I said, inspired the world through their play as a young girl, the only real role models that you had to look up to in professional athletics were golfers or tennis players for the most part is I was growing up. And so, and I played golf. So I was very engaged with the women that were doing very well. And the tour now I’ve gotten to meet them, you know, the same women who are my inspiration as a young kid to say, Hey, anything’s possible. You know, there, there, there are opportunities in sports, whether you’re actually competing or you’re working in sports, but sports is a place for women. So I think it is a hundred percent you know, sort of top of mind, critical for us on the go forward strategy for the LPJ and for our players to it, continue to get the world, to see, you know, these remarkable women do what they do.
AJV (11:22):
Ah, I love that, you know, and you, it’s funny as how you’re talking is, you know, I think about the study that our company did brand builders group went out and fielded a national research study on the trends and impacts of personal branding just about a year ago. And it’s the first national study about branding and a huge part that we thought were so was so interesting. And something you just said made me think about this is that 88% of millennials, age 26 to 44, but then 82% of the entire general population, no matter what your age is, agree that a company is more influential when the founder or executives have a public facing personal brand. And what you just said, like really resonated to something that we talk a lot about. It’s like, we are no longer really in the era of the company is no longer the entity that is known. It’s the people within the company that make the company known. And so when you said it’s like, Hey, like the more well known our players become the more well known our organization becomes. Oh yeah. I mean, that goes across all sports, all industries, all organizations, no matter what. And so I’m curious in your opinion, what do you think in this specific conversation the players need to be doing to help themselves become more well known, thus making the entire organization more well known? Like what would you like to see?
MMS (12:49):
Well, I, I would, you know, I think that letting people get to know them as much as possible, and some of that is our responsibility you know, out outside of their own social media and outside the things that they can do to continue to place themselves into situations where, you know, they’re letting the world see all the good that they’re doing, not only on the golf course, but the way that they train the way that they eat, the way that they sleep, the way that they engage in sort of high performance, I think is very interesting to the world. Also the way that they give back. I mean, our, our women are significant contributors to, to charity, to young girls, you know as I said before, allowing young girls to have inspiration and to be role models, I think getting that word out and being very creative and, and aggressive with their own social media, but also from our perspective, one of the things that we’re, we’re trying to do more is, you know, give, give audiences more of an opportunity to know the, the, the players individually, not just their talent, I mean their talent.
MMS (13:43):
I think people still need to understand how significant it is, but I also wanna be able to do things in broadcast. You know, we’re trying to stream holes, you know, on, on various streaming platforms where we can interview the app plates in the middle of their round. It’s also a really unique sport where they can be playing and we can actually have an announcer or broadcaster come up and, and just ask them what they’re thinking as they’re about to hit their next shot within a very large competition where they’re competing for a great deal of money was really cool. And I think that’s where the association starts to come in, because as you said, people think of P people, they, they, you know, they follow the LPGA and we need to do continue to do a better job and continue to grow our abilities in that area, which our team is really good and they’re really focused on it, but mostly we connect with people.
MMS (14:26):
We cheer, cheer on people. It’s you know, you want, you wanna be watching someone, you know, you wanna be watching someone whose story, you know, what, how hard it was to get to that point. And every athlete on, on our tour has a different story. And they’re quite remarkable. They’re not what you think they are. And I think they provide inspiration. They’re very interesting. They’re very engaging. And I think that they have this platform to help people be better in their own lives. And also if you think about golf, I mean, wow, golf is just a hard sport. When you, I don’t know how much you play J but, but when you stand up on that tee, you never know what’s gonna happen. And at the end of your round, imagine being in your professional life, we all were talking about being stressed and other things that are challenging.
MMS (15:05):
But if in your professional life, every day at the end of your Workday, you gotta score
AJV (15:41):
Oh my gosh. It’s so true. And it’s it’s so true to, you know, just anyone who’s in the public eye, rather you’re putting yourself there, or you just you’re there. Right. I think a lot of this has to do is so much of what we talk about in our community at brand builders group. And I believe a huge resistance to a lot of our community of like really putting themselves out there is the fear of people not liking them or disagree with them. And it’s like, the truth is it’s like, the more true you are to yourself, you’re gonna have more lovers and more haters. That’s just the part of being, and that’s hard, that’s like a hard choice. And then to be in a profession where that just is a part of the job, that’s so intense. And so I’m curious to know genuinely it’s like, what would you say that most of your players, or even like you yourself, it’s like, do you think that there’s a resistance to build personal of brands?
MMS (16:34):
Yeah, I think there, I mean, I, I don’t know that there’s a resistance to build personal brands because I think we all want to do that. I mean, I know I need to be a lot better about that and because I agree with you and you and I have been talking about that. Like, I think the people really do believe that the CEO or the leader of the company is the representative of that total company. And so I need to do a better job myself on that, but I think our players, you know, it’s very hard to put yourself out there and, and particularly in the world of professional sports where everyone just feels like they have the right to, to tell you what they think of your play, of what you look like out there of what, you know, so it’s very, very hard, but, but I, so I think that there is sometimes some resistance, but I, I think the more we educate on how to do it positively and just continue to focus on your own values and continue to focus on the things that you believe in, and then let the chips kind of fall where they may, you know, and, and obviously we need to support them in that every step of the way as well.
MMS (17:31):
So it’s, you know, it’s hard, but it, it does does matter. And I think it will just continue to open up doors for them, every P every sponsor or partner that comes up to me tells me how amazing our athletes are, you know, and that’s almost like this, this secret that we’re keeping. And we need to just tell the world a little bit more aggressively, listen, we, our, our players are quite well known in many circles and some of them more than others, but I just think there’s this huge opportunity for them, sorry to inspire. And we really just are, like I said, we’re really focused on that. So I think there is a resistance, but we’re trying to give people it’s comfortable in environment as possible to do that.
AJV (18:11):
Yeah. You know, there’s two things I wanna, I
AJV (18:55):
Right. And that, that is the business of sports. And then the other thing I was gonna say, it’s like, you know, this same resistance, or not even resistance reluctance, or sometimes it’s confusion. It’s like, I think this is what the entire world is experiencing right now with this enormous shift of going from like this traditional marketing and advertising world to this new kind of world order of the just undeniable importance of your reputation, your audience engagement people knowing about you. Like, that’s just becoming increasing more important. Like we just strongly believe it’s like personal branding is a trend. It’s not a fad which means it’s not going away. Right. It it’s a growing amplified part of how we do business. And there is not a ton of talk around this and a lot of businesses and organizations, but you are making this a topic like is something that you guys are focused on and intent of like, how do we get our players to be more well known?
AJV (19:57):
Cuz we know if we do that, it’s gonna benefit the organization. And there’s, there’s still a lot of debate on, should we shouldn’t we, and you’re kind of taking the stance of, no, this is what we’re gonna do. And that’s clearly a shift of what has been done within the L P G a. And so I’m curious, like as your like seat as commissioner and in kinda like during your reign here, right. Why, why this, like, what is it about this that you think is just so important as we kinda like move into this next era of marketing?
MMS (20:28):
Well, a co a couple things. One, I, I do think it’s also though in that hesitancy or the reluctance, I think it is our responsibility as the LPGA to continue to help with kind of helping them through the difficult parts of it too, you know, kind of providing the right perspective on it. So it doesn’t, you know, so really they can focus on their own wellbeing and their own mental health and all of that too. And making sure that there’s good perspective. I always think that mindset and perspective and approach is really the most important thing in anything you do in life is sort of how you enter, how you enter that challenge and how, you know, what you’re getting into when you into it and just really staying true to your own values and knowing, being confident with who you are and knowing what the upside is, but also knowing where the downside can be and being prepared for that.
MMS (21:15):
So I think those are some of the things that we’re trying to, to work on. But, but again, getting back to your question, I mean, it’s it, like I said, it’s just so critical that that, that they as individual athletes really entrepreneurs. I mean, if you really think about it, the women on our tour, they don’t play for a team. They play for themselves. Yeah. And so their own personal brand is even that much more important because they’re actually selling their brand, just like the LPJ is selling our brand to be able to make all of this work. You know, we, we don’t exist without the, the commercialization of, of the sport. I mean, we, we are in the business to allow women to live their dreams through golf you know, tangentially, but, but, or not even tangentially just as, as an integrated part of what we do, we are also part of our mission is to give this opportunity to young girls, to women, whatever skill level, all around the world, because we think it’s so by valuable.
MMS (22:08):
So in order, like you said, in order for us to do that, people have to know the opportunities exist. They have to know the the benefits of participating in golf and participating in sport for young girls and for women, you know, the community building the networking. So in order for us to be successful in that way, people have to know our stories and have to, to, to get to know our athletes and it for our athletes to be able to truly maximize this amazing gift that they have they’re individual entrepreneurs and they need to commercialize it. You know, there are different ways they can do it. So it’s really built into their entire ability to reach our mission and their mission mission, which is to live their dreams through the game of golf and inspire the world to have a positive impact. So it’s all tied in together. I mean, I think it really is all part and parcel of what we do as an organization is we need more of the world to, to know about us. So we’re really focused on that.
AJV (23:02):
Yeah. And it’s like kind of the easy, easiest maybe not, I must say simplest, not easiest, but the simplest thing to do, it’s like as your players become more well known, you become more well known. It’s like this win-win situation. I love what you said too. It’s like really our players are entrepreneurs. Like that is such a great way at looking at this particular sport and there’s other sports like that, but it’s, you know, you said something earlier that just made me think this it’s like the more that we get to know the stories of the players and here’s what I have found to be true. The more that I get to know the stories of the athletes, of the teams that I follow, I don’t just love the athlete more. I love the entire sport more. Yeah. You know, and I think I shared this with you.
AJV (23:47):
It’s like, I recently watched the movie king Richard about Venus and Serena Williams father and about them. And the most fascinating thing happened through like the next few weeks after watching this movie, it’s like one I’m just dumbfounded at their superiority and the skillset and just like who they are as humans and individuals. And there’s the fact that they’re in the same family. Like, so I have become like so endeared to both of them and their excellence, but I’ll tell you what else happened is I’ve become way more interested in the entire sport of tennis. Oh yeah. Right. It’s not, and here’s what I’d say. It’s like the stories of athlete don’t make, you just love them more. They make you love the entire sport more. And that’s something that I think is really amazing. It’s like my husband is a really great golfer and really loves golf.
AJV (24:35):
And he’s always pressuring me to go golfing. And, you know, it’s like, I haven’t necessarily ever had a great desire and passion to it until I met you. Right. And it’s like, now that I talk, I talk to you and I’m getting to know it. It’s like, I’m naturally more inclined to wanna learn about this sport because I’m fascinated by you. Like, I wanna get to know your players because it’s like, I wanna support people that I believe in the exact same thing happens with companies. Right. When I fall in love with a founder of a company it’s like, and I wanna support what this person is doing because I’m fascinated and interested by their story. And I wanna be a part of it. And I think it, this exact same thing happens when we fall in love with stories. We fall in love with the people, but also what they’re a part of. And that includes the entire sport.
MMS (25:18):
Absolutely. The sport, the LPGA women’s sports. I think, I think by watching king Richard, which I, I loved as well. And you know, you, you really get, you appreciate the hard work, the sacrifices, the challenges that have gone into getting them to where they got, it’s pretty darn remarkable and, and how hard it is to get there and how, how talented they really are. So, and again, if you think about sports, why, why do people love their hometown team? Why do people love their a college team? It’s because it builds community and you’re a part of something bigger than yourself. And there’s a personal connection to that team. You don’t generally just pick a team and say, oh, I, I like their colors. I mean, sometimes that’s how you originally sort of align yourself with the team, but then it’s about the people.
MMS (26:03):
I, I like watching sports when I have some understanding of who the people are, whether it’s a quarterback on a football team or whether, and whether it’s, you know, the star player. And that was why, you know, being at Princeton was, was so fun. I always loved Princeton athletics. I loved following the teams when I was not the ad, just as an alum, because that was my association of my affiliation. But then when you get to know the athletes and, you know, their stories, you become sort of obsessed by their results and by their success because you know, how much went into it. And that’s the same with the LPGA. I’ve always been a fan. I’ve always loved golf. I’ve always been a student of the game and the history of the, the LPGA, but now knowing these athletes and seeing who they are as people, you know, you wake up wondering how they, sometimes they, they were playing in Asia last week.
MMS (26:47):
And I was there. I was in Singapore for the first week. And then I had to come home for some meetings. They then played in Thailand. And so the time changes are very, you know, the time differences are, are significant. They’re 14 hours, 13 or 14 hours ahead. And so, you know, I’d wake up in the morning and just first grab my phone and see how they did at now, knowing all of the women you’re really following them, you’re connected with them. And so the more other people, not just the commissioner knows who, I mean, again, we have a huge fan base and a, a many, many people know our athletes and are inspired by them and they’re doing great work out there, but I think there’s even, there are more people that could be inspired and get to know them and sort of, you know have something to cheer for where else in the world do you actually cheer for other people?
MMS (27:28):
There are not many places where you’re putting your arms up, you’re clapping, you know, and you’re personally invested in it. I mean, look at the fans at different games and they have their hands and their, their face and their they’re so invested in the success of their teams. And it’s not really just the team, it people that they’re watching. And so there’s so much more of an opportunity for that, which I’m, I’m really excited about. And I wouldn’t be so excited if I didn’t think our women were so remarkable. And I didn’t think that our product was so good. And so you know, I’ve used this word too many times here today, but so inspiring. So, and that’s really what, why I’ve stayed connected with sports so much is because I do think changes people’s lives. I think it builds leaders. I think it builds communities. I think it gives people some optimism and something to look forward to. So I think there’s so many benefits of it that I, I love having this platform to, to tell our stories,
AJV (28:18):
Oh, I love that. And I so agree with you. It’s like, I just think there’s so many benefits of sports and Jim, like, regardless of what it is, there’s just so many, but in fact to what you said, it’s like, what are the, what are the things in life? Do you like physically jump out of your chair, horse screaming and yelling for other people. Yeah. Right. And it’s like, you get so emotionally invested into the team, the community, it’s like, like how many times do you like buy all the gear of your favorite come and wear it with pride. Right.
MMS (28:47):
Like
AJV (28:48):
This doesn’t happen. Like that’s such a great point. And so we have just like eight more minutes or so. And so I have, I wanna shift gears just a little bit and I wanna talk about you and really like your role. And you said earlier, it’s like at every decade in your life that you’ve said, like, I just wanna pick like the next, most awesome, like role in sports. And so I’m gonna kind of put you on the spot, right. And looking at this next decade, like 10 years from now, like, what do you wanna be doing?
MMS (29:16):
Well, I mean, listen, I, I have a, a big, big task ahead of me here. And so I’m really not, not looking forward past this opportunity at all. I mean, I’ve just gotten here, been here, you know, six months, a little over six months. And we have a great platform. The LPJ is in a really good position, but, but they’re the, the fun of it is that there’s huge growth to be had too. So I would like to look back in 10 years and say, Hey, we, we elevated the LPGA to a place where the women are making more money, you know, getting closer hopefully, or, or getting to the point, the same amount of dollars that the men make to play the sport that more people know about them have been inspired by them. That girls golf has grown around the world, not just, you know, we’re a global tour.
MMS (29:57):
So we have women from, I think, over 50 cut countries participating on the LPGA. And we also partner with the ladies European tour and we have a qualifying tour that the EEPs tour. So we have, I think over 50 women from different countries. And so our 50 countries represented. So we have the opportunity not just to impact what’s happening in the us, but you know around the whole world. And so I hope that we wake up in, I wake up in 10 years and say, well, we really did take this to the next level. And we were able to impact the individuals that participate, but also the world more broadly. I hope the number of girls that are playing the game have, has grown. I hope the number of girls who, who really might not otherwise have that opportunity if we weren’t really intentional about it, I think you know, certain sports these days, almost all sports have become very expensive.
MMS (30:44):
Yeah. And you know, golf has traditionally been known as a very expensive sport, and this is an opportunity that can’t be just given to, to young girls or boys whose families have the resources it’s like education. I really feel like it’s our responsibility to give this remarkable game to those who might not other feel either comfortable or feel have the resources to be able to play. So I’d like to wake up and say, Hey, we really did give this opportunity to many, many more young girls and we impacted many, many more lives along the way. So you’re kind of looking at impacting lives, but you’re doing it through this, this overall platform. Which, and, and hopefully women’s sports has grown during that period and no longer do people look and go, okay, well, there’s, there’s golf. And then there’s, women’s golf. You know, it’s sort of like, there’s golf and there’s, men’s golf and there’s, women’s golf.
MMS (31:29):
And then we play together. I mean, that’s the beauty of golf also that men, men and women can play together. And you know, people who think that they can beat our women, you know, men or women who, who don’t really know, I love that scenario when you say, okay, yeah, you, why don’t you come out and play against these women and see what happens at the end? I mean, they are just as good as the men. They might not hit it quite as far off the tee, but then their game from there on, in our data and our statistics are showing that they are just as good or better in many areas. And so I’d like the, the world to know that and for us to tell those stories.
AJV (32:01):
Hmm. That’s so good. And I love that. I love, I love too that you’re just focused on the here and now, right. We’ll see where the road takes you, but you’re focused on the here and now. So if we were just to take it personal for you, it’s like, I know you wanna see these women’s stories told you wanna see the, the, you know, game of golf, you know, it shared, and hopefully it grows and you know, all these D from things. So those aside, right, I’m just super curious, like, are there any like internal things that, or messages that you hope come out of your tenure here? And this could be just not even about golf, but sports women’s sports, men’s sports, whatever, but it’s like, are there any underlying themes that you’re like, man, if you know, the world were up my fingertips and I had a magic wand and I could make sure all these things happen, is there anything that you really want your legacy to be? As you know, you think about, at some point, this position will be over however many years down the road. It is. But when people think back and they think about Molly Marman, like, what do you want them to think about?
MMS (33:09):
Well, I mean, I think as you said, I like to be in the, in the here and now. I mean, I’ve never had a job where I’m looking for the next job. I mean, those jobs have always, fortunately I’ve just had a lot of really lucky you know, connections and relationships and people who have put me forward for other other opportunities, but I’ve always just tried to say, like, you gotta care deeply about what you’re doing at that moment. So I hope people, you know, look back and say, you know, she really cared because she cared not because she was trying to, you know, elevate her own career, anything like that, because I actually think that’s the worst thing that you can do in, in your job. You have to be invested in, in what you do for what it is. Not, not for what it can get you.
MMS (33:48):
And I do think that’s a really important thing for people is just like, be where you are, love what you do care deeply about the product and the people, and try to make it better every day, you know, wake up thinking, how do I get this organ to be better? How do I get the people around me to be better? How do I get myself to be better? You know, how do I grow every day? So I hope people from my own perspective, I hope that’s what people, what people say. You know, there was one of my bosses at Chelsea Pierce, you know, where they were doing this in my going away party. And, you know, they were standing up and saying really nice things. And you’re always like, oh, I never knew they, they thought that, but one of my bosses, you know, that’s, that’s what he said.
MMS (34:25):
And at first I was like, wow. He just said, like, I thought, he’d say, oh, I did really well at this. Or I had these accomplishments or I was hoping, but he just said, you know, at the end of the day Molly cared, you know, she, she really cared about our organization, cared about our people. And so when I reflected back on that, I was a little younger or I was like, that’s, that’s, that’s good. Like, I was proud of that. I hope I hope that that continues. And that that’s what people can sort of say the same thing along the way, because makes life a lot more fun to care about the teams you’re on, you know, being an athlete, being associated with teams. I think everything is about your teams, whether it’s your family or your work, or your friends or your community, they’re all teams.
MMS (35:01):
And so how do you show up for that team? So that’s what I, that’s what I hope in my career is like, I, I really have no, I have no aspirations for a different job or for, you know, really just to have impact where I am and to, to, to have people who I work with say, Hey, she really does care and she’s not gonna be perfect is gonna make mistakes. And, you know, not gonna know everything by any stretch, but she care. And, and I think that’s really that’s what my hope is.
AJV (35:25):
Mm. I love that. You said two things there. I thought that was so good. Is that you’re a part of teams, no matter what you do in life, like maybe it’s your family team or your work team, or maybe you have a church team or a nonprofit team, or maybe you’re on a sports team, right? Yeah. But it’s like, you’re a part of teams, no matter you’re in sports or not. And that’s such a great way looking at all the different things that we do. It’s like, I’m a part of like six different teams. Right. Right. And I had never thought about it that where it’s like, I’m a crucial integral part of making our family team work. Right. And if I don’t, if I don’t do good, they don’t do good.
MMS (36:04):
That’s the most important team by the way, that is by far, the most important team is your, is your team. I heard someone yesterday say you know, the, the, the team that really matters the team, that’s sitting at your Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. And, and that’s a good way of putting it, you know, that’s the team that makes the most, and it was actually from a coach who cares deeply about his specific team that he plays on or that he coaches. But I think the most important team is always the team that’s sitting at your Thanksgiving dinner. But yeah, I mean, sometimes your role on the team is not exactly the role that you would like to have. And I, I, I talk to kids about that all the time, but if you go in with like, Hey, whatever my role is, my job is to make that team better.
MMS (36:43):
Whether I’m the star player or I’m, you know, sitting at the end of the bench, everybody on that team contributes to the overall success. And if you don’t wake up thinking about that, you can actually be a negative impact to the team. Oh, that’s so great. And so you, you really, you have to, you know, and in sports, you know, the college level, we talk about that with the coaches all the time. It’s like the end of the bench is just as important as, as the starting superstar. And so make sure you as the coach or the leader play to that whole bench, but also if you’re on the end of the bench, how are you contributing to make that team better that day? And it translates to work. It translates to family it, to everything. We know that in marriages and in, you know, listen, some days you’re gonna be getting to do what you wanna do and other days your, your partner’s gonna need to do what they need to do. And it’s a constant, you know, team that we engage in, same thing with our kids. So I just love thinking of it as teams. Yeah.
AJV (37:34):
I love that. Like, I’m totally gonna shift my mindset around. It’s like, we all have different roles, but we’re a team and I’m a part of like a variety of little teams in my life. And it’s like, how am I showing up? Like, what’s my role in each of those teams. I love that. That’s so good. The other thing you said that when I like highlight for the listeners is you gotta care about what you’re doing for the sake of just doing a good job and loving what you’re doing, not because of what it’s going to get you.
MMS (37:59):
Right.
AJV (37:59):
Right. That is so significant. I feel like so many people in life intentionally are not, are doing things while subconsciously doing them going, if I do this, then I’ll get this. Yeah. Or if I do this for this person, and they’ll do this for me, it’s like, there’s this like subconscious mindset of I’ll do this, but I’ll do it to get this right. And you said, no, it’s like, do it for the sake of doing it and being a part of the team and loving what you do.
MMS (38:25):
Yeah. And for you to get better and for you to grow and for, you know, there’s those intrinsic benefits of that for sure. But it really does. I think reduce stress and you know, reduce the anxiety around what you’re doing. You wake up and say, okay, my task is to, to care and to, to make this organization better and to accomplish my goals and not worry about the rest. It’s not always easy to do. And believe me, I fall prey to all of that. Like we all do, but trying to get back to level set on mindset. And, and you know, even just with kids in school, there’s so much pressure on grades and successes on sports teams and in the play and various things. And, you know, I constantly try to say to my kids, listen, you know, you, you show up, do the very best you can and let the chips fall where they may, you know, and, and you contribute to it because you love it.
MMS (39:08):
And because it makes you happy and because it it’s fulfilling and it helps you grow, don’t worry so much about that result. That’s hard for kids. It’s hard for adults. It’s hard for all of us, but I do think it, for me, it reduces stress. You know, it’s like, listen, I can just put one foot forward, put my clothes on, get out of the house and do the very best I can do. And, and hope that things go the best that they can possibly go. And, and that’s not something I’ve always my mindset I’ve always had, you know, I think that’s you know, sort of I over time. So I try to share that with my kids and, you know, they have to go through some stuff on their own to figure that out. But I do think that’s an important mindset.
AJV (39:43):
Oh, I love that. I’m telling you what it’s like, the more time I get to spend with you, it’s like, you just have like all these little like excellent bombs, just dropping everywhere, all these like awesome little golden nuggets that just come outta your I so love what you’re doing. I know exactly why you were recruited for this position. I am so excited to see what you do for the, the whole game of golf. But specifically for these women players, I’m so excited to just see this change. And it’s like, regardless of how many of, how many other people it’s gonna impact, like I can my hand and say, it’s like from the day that we had our first conversation, I have had a new appreciation and interest for the game. And I’m just one. So it’s like, there’s gonna be a serious domino effect with all the things that you’re doing. And so people wanna learn more about you and stay in touch with the LPGA tour. Like where should they go? Where do you want people to find you?
MMS (40:38):
Well, again, I think I need to do a better job of letting people find me, but I am on Twitter. I think it’s M Mar U 91. Something like that, but I should probably know that more specifically, but, but you can always find me too on the LPGA site. And you know, we’re constantly doing things through our social media channels and through, through, but, but I think, you know, in me getting to know you that, that, and I reached out to you because I heard you, as I said on Molly Fletcher’s podcast and just was really, I loved your message. And I, I know that’s something, an area of growth for me to be able to put myself out there more and to be able to you know, be, be willing to, to do that. But mostly for me at this point, it’s a little bit about time, but it has to be a, a pro of time, you know, and I always wanna, if I’m gonna do something, I wanna do it really well. And sometimes it’s hard to find time to do this really well with all the other things that you’re trying to do and other ways that you’re trying to serve other people. But I do think that it is important. You know, for the LP G I, I wouldn’t do it so much if it was just to elevate my own personal brand, but if it’s gonna help elevate the tour and help elevate what we do, then I, I need to continue to get better at that.
AJV (41:43):
Well, I’ll do all the research. I’ll make sure all the right handles are in the notes.
MMS (41:47):
AJV (41:55):
Baby steps, baby steps, baby
MMS (41:56):
Baby
AJV (41:57):
Steps. But I’ll put all that in there. I’ll grab all the links for the LPGA. I’ll put all those in there and, and y’all like, go follow these players, go follow the LPGA. Like also follow Molly. I’m gonna, I’m gonna enforce her. I’m gonna make her share all of her brilliance more typically online. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much. I know how busy you are. Thank you so much for being on the show.
MMS (42:21):
Yes, my pleasure. Thanks for doing this and thanks for helping elevate our, our women. And like you said, go to the LPGA, a social media handles and, and also watch our broadcast we’re on golf channel. There’s times when we’re on we’re on network television, we’re, we’ve got some great ideas brew around some other ways that you can engage. We’ve done an all access video of one of our, or, you know, sort of docu-series. So again, getting to know our players through that docu-series and through sort of their personal lives is really remarkable. I think you’ll be inspired. So thanks for everything. And yeah, I look forward to continuing our conversation.
AJV (42:52):
X is awesome. Y’all thanks so much for listening. Stay tuned for another episode of the influential personal brand. We’ll see you next time.
Ep 289: Personal Brand Strategies for Network Marketing and Direct Sales with Ray Higdon | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:54):
This episode brought together three of my favorite things, sales, personal branding, network marketing, and and four, I would say leadership, all kind of coming together in this interview that I did with Ray Higdon and welcome to this special recap edition. I love this. I, I love this conversation. I’ve been, I, I love having this conversation specifically about how does personal branding apply to direct sales people, you know, all types of direct sales and then also network marketing specifically, which is really what rays expertise and, and, and special niche is. And so I just, I just thought this was fascinating. And if you know anything about the world of network marketing there’s just a really interesting kind of almost like dynamic happening right now, where companies are trying to really figure out how much flexibility and freedom should people have with their personal brand versus, you know, leveraging the company’s brand.
RV (02:01):
And I think a lot of companies are struggling with that, but it, it it’s really prevalent in direct sales, cuz they’re like, you know, right on the front lines out there selling face to face and, and doing business with friends. So fascinating conversation. I, if and we talked about some of those things with Ray, but the three highlights I wanna share for you apply outside of network marketing. And, and beyond direct sales, I think these are three ubiquitous concepts and takeaways that are really important for all of us and for you, no matter what type of business that you are in. And they they’re super duper powerful and they were great reminders for me. And as I was going back and reviewing the show, I was like, yeah, this there’s some really, really big moments in here. So the first one is when, when Ray said this, he, this is such an important phrase.
RV (02:55):
He said, I want to be duplicatable. I want to be duplicatable. That is a really important concept. And it, it makes sense like that is one of the best things. That’s one of the best lessons you can learn from network marketing, right? Is they just, they teach you how, how, how to sell something. And then if you can teach someone else how to sell something, you just duplicate that process over and over, it’ll change your entire life. But even with your personal brand everything you need to sort of think in terms of being duplicatable, repeatable processes and, and how do you scale things. So whether it’s just scaling your own content marketing strategy, right? Like we call it the content diamond. For those of you that are brand builders members. You know, we teach this, this system of what happens every single week, this, this giant checklist that you have to run, that’s being duplicatable, right?
RV (03:52):
It’s, it’s being able to have many people step in it’s interchangeable parts of your system. We also talk about an eight figure entrepreneur, which is one of our phase, one of our phase four programs that, you know, the same thing about like redundancy and scale. And we, one of the flagship points from, from scale your sales, or excuse me from eight figure entrepreneur, is that we talk about how custom fails, right? Standard scales, custom fails standard scales, custom fails standard scales. Anything that you can do repeatedly over and over and over again. And in this episode, when Ray was talking about, you know, why is McDonald’s the most like successful franchise it’s because it’s designed to be run by the person with the lowest level of skill, right? It’s created for the least common denominator. It’s it is, it is the most spelled out.
RV (04:55):
It is the most explicit. It’s the most specific it’s like, if you follow this playbook and this process, it will duplicate. And that is how things scale. Think, think about manufacturing lines. We, we talk about this, of going a manufacturing line works because it’s cranking out the same thing over and over again. That is how you scale. So you want to think in, in, in terms of being duplicatable, even if you’re gonna choose not to be duplicatable, right? Like you might say, no, no, no, I don’t wanna be the, I don’t wanna be the Honda accord. I want to be the rolls Royce. And I want every single thing to be custom and handcrafted, even if you’re gonna make that choice, that’s something you should do deliberately. And, and intentionally by way of considering to go, what’s the, the alternative of like, how do I scale?
RV (05:47):
But if you wanna be one of those two things, right, you don’t want to get stuck in the middle, which is where a lot of people do. And, and honestly, being duplicatable is gonna be really important, even Rolls-Royce as, you know, great processes and streamlines and, you know, checklists like you can’t build a great brand without being duplicatable. You have to be able to do things systematically, repeatedly on autopilot, over and over and over. And it, it reminds me almost of my in my Ted talk. And so my, how to multiply your time, Ted talk, my second book procrastinating on purpose. One of the, one of the flagship sayings in there is we say automation is to your time. Exactly what compounding interest is to your money. Automation is to your time, what compounding interest is to your money. That’s being duplicatable.
RV (06:36):
It is investing in creating a system or a process that can be stamped out on, on repeat. You should be thinking that way, always as an entrepreneur, like that’s how you free yourself up. As you, you replace yourself with a process. You, you, you, you know, people become interchangeable to some extent the, the, the better your processes are. The second takeaway for me in parallel, I wanted to highlight for you was when Ray said, look, if I had big goals, I would have a prospecting number. And then I would have a marketing metric of something that I focused on. And I love this. You know what, like for example, he said, I’m gonna do one reel every day or three reels a day, I think is what he said. He’s like, if I had big goals, I would be doing three reels a day.
RV (07:28):
And there’s a couple things I, I love about this. The, the high level concept here though, is focusing on what you can control, reminding yourself that your job is to do the things you can do. And you have to focus on doing the things you can do, stop worrying about the things you can do and start focusing on the things that you can do. You have to focus on the controllables, you do the things that are a hundred percent in your power. And so I always, you know, I believe in that concept a lot, we, we write about it in, in take the stairs. And in my first book, we say, put your self-esteem in your work habits, not in your results, put your self esteem in your work habits, not in your results. You let the results shake out. You let the results be a byproduct of the work.
RV (08:19):
So I’m a huge believer in that concept. It’s always great to be reminded of it. The thing that I loved about this and, and the, the little kind of nuance flip that switched for me was that applies to marketing too. Like, it definitely applies to sales. It’s a survival mechanism in sales. We, we would say, you know, don’t don’t focus on how many people say yes, like just focus on how many people you’re gonna talk to. Like your goal is to work a certain number of hours and talk to a certain number of people or make a certain number of dials. One of my old friends, Andrea Wal wrote, she wrote this book on called go for no. And that was sort of, the mentality was like, you know, just worry about like, instead of going, Ooh, I hope I get one yesterday, aim for 20 no’s.
RV (09:06):
And by aiming for 20 no’s, you’ll end up with more yeses than if you were just focused on the yeses. Right? So it’s that kind of idea, which I love it. And, and, and you hear it for that applies very much for sales. The part that was really cool here is the same applies for marketing. The same applies for marketing for personal branding specifically for social media, right? Is if all you’re focused on is how many views did I get? How many followers did I get? How many comments did I get? How many likes did I get? How many shares did I get? If, if that’s all you’re thinking about, none of that is in your control, right? Like none of that is in your control. You can influence those things by the quality of the content that you put out. But the better thing to focus on is, is the quantity, right?
RV (09:52):
Quantity leads to quality. Quantity typically is where things are controllable. So when Ray was saying, I would focus on making three reels a day, that’s a great metric to focus on. That’s a great way to think about it is to go H what is the volume of output you are going to do every day? Not, and, and let the results shake out, knowing that if you put in the work, if you pay the price, if you, if you constantly make good choices, if you continue to, to, to do the, like, have great work ethic and great character and integrity, and you do the right things over and over and over and over again, consistently over the course of time, it’s going to shake out it’s, it’s the compound effect that book by Darren Hardy and which is, you know, that good choices compound. And over time, it all plays out.
RV (10:41):
Like you have to remind yourself of that, even with your marketing is just like, I’m just focusing on, you know, like I’m gonna do a hundred podcasts, or like, I’m gonna do three reels a day, or I’m just gonna write every single week or whatever it is, focus on the activity, not the results. So what is that for you right in your business, in your life, like right now, where are you focused on the results? Where are you allowing your self-esteem to be tied to a result? And you need to break that you need to chop that you need to separate, that you need to sever that relationship, and you need to instead connect your self-esteem to activity, to controllables, to your work ethic, to to like the volume of what you’re doing and allow, and, and then just allowing the results to shake out, knowing that they will be there.
RV (11:34):
They will be there sooner or later, but it’s almost, it’s never, when we want it, it’s always slower than we than we want, but that’s really, really a big deal. And then finally, my, my third takeaway, this is actually more of something that, you know, Ray said that reminded me of a really important concept, which I don’t know that we’ve hit it hard enough on, on, on this podcast, right? And on this show, and even with our, our members with our brand builders members, like, but this is really important to understand. Marketing is long term sales is short term. Generally speaking, marketing is long term sales is short term. Marketing is good. Sales is good, but marketing is, you know, typically it’s like, you’re reaching the masses and you’re building trust with the masses. You’re building an audience that takes time. The good news, right?
RV (12:33):
The downside of marketing is that it takes time. It, it, it takes time to build the systems, create the content, you know, put it out there, grow a following, stay in touch, like earn trust with people. That’s the, that’s the bad news. The good news though, is that it’s extremely scalable. Once you hit the tipping point where you’ve been doing this, now people just start flooding to you and it just gets better and better and better, but it’s hardest early on. And it’s slowest early on like marketing. Isn’t the fastest way to results. Sales is marketing is long term sales is short. Term sales happens right away, right? Sales is human to human conversation. I can pick up the phone. I can talk to somebody today. I can make a sale, right? I have to just convince one person, you know, Mani, mano, or wo mano to wo mano
RV (13:25):
And you’re just going to talk directly to somebody and listen and ask questions, and you can make a sale. That’s the beauty of sales, the, the downfall, you know, or the hard, you know, that’s the good news of sales. The bad news of sales is that while sales is fast, it’s not super scalable. I, I mean, it, it’s, it’s quite scalable to a point, but you know, you, if you always have to do the selling, that’s gonna make it harder to scale, cuz it’s pulling your time. Now, the way you get around that is, is you go through what we teach in phase four, which is scale your sales, which is how to recruit and hire and train and manage and motivate a sales team. So sales is quite scalable has been for decades, but like the, as a solopreneur, it doesn’t, it doesn’t scale super well, cuz it’s taking your time and your time is pulled from all of these other, these other things.
RV (14:15):
The other part is that a lot of people are uncomfortable selling. They don’t know how to prospect. They don’t know how to ask for referrals. They’re not comfortable asking for the sale. They don’t know how to do it. They don’t know what to say when, when people, you know, give you objections. And by the way, if that’s you who you need to request a call with brand builders group and you need to go through our pressure free persuasion course, that is where we teach all that stuff. The tactics of how to ask for referrals exactly. You know, step by step what to say when they give you, when you run, when you get an objection, when you get you know, when you’re unsure of what to do or how to respond like that is, that is sales, but, but sales is fast.
RV (14:58):
Marketing is slow. Marketing is long term sales is short term. But then, you know, long term marketing catches up and it becomes this super powerful thing and, and marketing can also shorten the sales cycle. Because if somebody comes in to you already, you know with a, with like persuaded to use Robert child Dini’s persuasion kind of idea, like if they come to you already sort of pre-sold, that’s gonna accelerate things. And so part of the magic of brand builders group, like what we do internally is, is we do both, right. We do marketing and sales. Like we use marketing to sort of like warm up the leads and bring them in. And then we use sales and then we work through referrals. And so that’s why we’ve been able to build very successful businesses, very fast and, and businesses that are, are, are much larger than most people with millions of followers frankly because we understand how to do both.
RV (16:00):
And so they both work. They’re both good, but they both serve different purposes and you gotta sort of work work, you know, realize which one is your strength, which one is your weakness and how do you incorporate both of them in together? Because marketing is slow and sales is fast. Marketing is long term sales is short term, but, but marketing is scalable. And, and sales is more of a grind. So like it’s all it is. It’s all a balance. But if you’re gonna build a great business and a great personal brand, you want to be friends with both. Like you want to be really good at both marketing and sales and the better you are at those two things, the easier everything else becomes. So maybe you need to request a call at free brandand call.com/podcast request a free call with our team.
RV (16:51):
If you want to, you know, work with us, we do the first call for free. We’ll help you create a customized marketing. And you know, we’ll show you our journey for creating a marketing plan and a sales plan for your business. But that is those are the big take takeaways from today. Be duplicatable, put your self esteem in your work habits, not your results. And, you know, remember that marketing is long term and sales is short term, learn how to do both and you will have a great business and a great brand. Hey, leave us a review. If you wouldn’t mind at iTunes or wherever you listen to the show and share this episode with anyone who you think it might be helpful for. We’re so glad you’re here. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand podcast.
Ep 288: Personal Brand Strategies for Network Marketing and Direct Sales with Ray Higdon
RV (00:00):
So a few months back, I made some friends, Ray and Jessica Higden, who I have really grown to love. I mean, if you know anything about my story, you know, I was raised by a single mom who sold Mary Kay. I was in direct sales when I was in college. I went door to door for five years and, you know, just for really believe in direct sales and the power of direct sales and have been so warmly welcomed by network marketing companies and had the privilege of speaking at a lot of their events. And now at brand builders group, we see a, a growing number of you who are somehow involved with network marketing at, as either a side hustle or a portion of your business, or you’re, you know, maybe you’re a, you’re a fitness influencer, and you’re just recommending, you know, shakes or workout programs or whatever.
RV (00:51):
And so it made sense that we had to get Ray to come on the show. He is one of the world’s leading experts. I would say on network marketing and, and driving business for that. So he has a community called rank makers. He has about a half a million people, 500, almost 500,000 followers on social media. I met him and Jessica. They had a book that came out last year and the, the book came out from hay house. It’s called time, money, freedom. And the book is, and a bestseller and these guys have helped over 300,000 people generate more business, right. They grow their recruits, grow their business. And so anyways, we’re gonna talk about using your personal brand specifically to grow a network marketing direct sales business. So Ray, welcome to the show.
RH (01:45):
Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me man. Excited to be out here.
RV (01:48):
Did I say all that accurately? I mean,
RH (01:51):
Did I I’ll clear, I’ll clarify the last point. So
RV (01:53):
Clarify
RH (01:54):
In the last four years, we’ve helped network marketers bring in over 300,000 new customers, 71,000 new reps and achieve 14,000 rank advances. We actually track production of our, of our group. And so that that’s, that’s just the everything else was perfect, man.
RV (02:11):
Got it. So it’s that’s so it’s, it’s, it’s not 300,000 people you’ve helped your clients generate 300,000 customers recruit 71,000 team members. And then and then how many know the, how much show the rank advance
RH (02:27):
14,000 over 14,000 rank advances. And we have you know, a little bit over 11,000 people in our group. So, you know, you can kind of look at that and in those numbers, but you know, we’re very proud of our rank makers. We give them a action step every single day and they show it big.
RV (02:45):
Yeah. So, you know, there’s kind of two parts of this because on the one hand I’m really curious. And how do you think personal branding drives a network marketing, you know, direct sales business, but also, you know, most of the people we have on this show, it’s, they’re telling us the story of how they built their personal brand. And so you’ve done that as well. So like in the means of helping all of these people use their personal brand to grow their business, you guys have built a pretty monster empire here in a very, you know, a niche vertical, which, you know, regardless if somebody’s in direct sales or not almost everybody listening, I mean, this is gonna be our advice to them is, is to find their uniqueness and really dominate a vertical. And like, you guys have done that as, as, as good as anybody. Hmm.
RH (03:39):
Thank, thank you. Yeah. You know, before we were, you know, coaching and training you know, we were the number one incomers of a network marketing company. So I know, I know what it’s like to be in the field. I know what it’s like to, you know, to grind it out. I also know what it’s like to fail, cuz I, I failed in my first quite a few attempts at network marketing, cuz there were, there were a few of things I just didn’t get about network marketing cuz it is, especially when it comes to branding, it is very different than almost everything else. You know, if you’re like here’s, here’s a brand you would like. So in Cape coral we used to my wife when she was pregnant, we took her to this very specific chiropractor that was chiropractic for pregnant. Women.
RV (04:26):
Love it, like
RH (04:27):
Very specific. And that guy was booked. I mean he was booked. And I said to him, one day, I’m like, that’s a, that’s a pretty good niche. He goes, yeah know man
RV (04:44):
Right.
RH (04:44):
The reason I, I bring that up is, you know, the realtor isn’t typically teaching everyone how to also be a realtor they’re selling houses, but a network marketer kind of revolves around, you know, that world of, of what you do. You want to also be able to share that other or people can do. So I’m, I’m very hardcore when it comes to being, you know, being duplicatable, but there’s also nuances there’s nuances and, and pieces of that, that, that I don’t think a lot of people know that the distinctions of, but we’ve been able to, you know, to navigate that.
RV (05:19):
Yeah. And I, so I wanna talk about this specific, like, so you mentioned that you guys were a top income or number one income earn at, at, at one of these network marketing companies. I feel like the whole issue of personal branding is a conflict. Like it’s, it’s, it’s like a big question mark for how does a network marketing company deal with? Because I, on the one hand you go, yes, as, as one of our dealers distributors, team members, whatever you want to call ambassadors, whatever you call ’em builds this hugely successful personal brand, it, you know, helps them sell more and recruit more. On the other hand, I feel like there’s a lot of conflicts of like, well then they’re doing their own thing. They’re not really doing the company thing. And also it gets a little weird when people start selling products like their own information products that they make to their downline, right.
RV (06:19):
Because you’re in a, your downline or organization, you have a lot of influence and you’re already incentivized to help those people succeed. You make money off of their success typically. So like how do you, how do you recommend people like direct sales companies navigate that or manage that? Or like, what are some of the philosophies either that you’re employing or companies you go, yeah, I think they’re kind of doing this well, cuz I, I honestly see both sides of it. Like I see going, Hey, the company has a brand to protect, we’ve dumped a bunch of money into creating this product and this reputation back in infrastructure. And then also being like, well yeah, well, you know, if you’re growing your social media following, like that’s your asset. So yeah. You know, not to start with the, not to start with the hard questions, but let’s start with the hard, hard ones.
RH (07:04):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting. So I remember, so that company that, that we were the, the top income earns of in 2013, it merged into a larger company and that larger company, you know, like I, I had a lot of internet marketers. I mean, I, I had like, you know, in our space I had,
RH (07:57):
And they’re, they’re big thing was we just don’t want you using our logo or our name. And I’m like done, done deal. And, and I think that that is I think that that’s a smart approach, right? That’s a smart approach to say, don’t use the company name, don’t use, you know, the logo. And I mean, at the time I, I don’t know what it’s like now at the time, I mean, I was getting more traffic than, than their site
RH (08:45):
No, you’re gonna be like, yay. We got Brian Tracy, right? If you brought in you know, some guru, of course they’re gonna continue to sell their stuff. And so if you can allow that, then how can you not allow, you know, this over here? And so there’s, you know, for, for me personally, when I started selling courses, I didn’t market ’em to my team. If someone came to me when we started offering coaching, if someone in team came to me and said, you know, Hey, I wanna hire you as a coach. If they wanted to learn prospecting team, building leadership, duplication closing, you know, the standard kind of stuff of, of network marketing. I’m not gonna charge ’em I, I’m not gonna, you know, hit ’em with some big coaching fee. But if they’re wanting to learn blogging, podcasting, brand, all these things, to me that falls outside the realm of what a network marketing leader should be teaching.
RH (09:41):
And, and so that was a little bit different story. I had a, you know, a few people on my team that, that hired us as, as coaches, but it’s cuz they wanted something that you wouldn’t typically get in network marketing leadership. I think one of the, if, if you look at, at what companies are red hot, I mean red hot these are the companies that are the most flexible they just are. And you know, there’s a lot of you know, we’re not in the eighties where there’s, you can just put hedges up big enough. So no one can, you know, see outside of the company opportunities at every, you know, every second of the day you’re presented with a new opportunity. So the influencer has a lot of options. And, and so I, I think it’s a mistake. If, if companies are saying don’t you dare build a personal brand, but I also think it’s a mistake.
RH (10:28):
If an influencer says you must build a personal brand. So, you know, for example, there’s a lot of, and, and I know I, I go crazy on over here. For example, we, a lot of influencers they’ll bash cold, cold market messaging, right? And so, you know, we teach people how to send, you know, simple messages to people that they don’t know and, and actually get results because some people don’t wanna build a brand. Some people don’t wanna, you know, do all the attraction marketing stuff, they just wanna and get in and get out. Well, one of our students, Christina, Danielle, she’s the number one recruiter in her company. It’s for a pet supplies company which she doesn’t even have a pet. And she does it a hundred percent through cold messaging. That’s someone she doesn’t care to have a brand doesn’t want a brand doesn’t wanna build a traction marketing. She’s the one to get in. She’s the, the number one recruiter in that company. And so there’s a, there’s a lot of things that, that work in network marketing. I think the mistake is saying, this is the only way don’t you dare build a personal brand or you have to build a personal brand.
RV (11:29):
Hmm. Yeah. Well, it’s interesting too, because like back in 2013 you know, that would, that, that makes sense to me to go yeah. Blogging, podcasting, you know, funnel, social media, definitely not part of the mainstream of what you would teach for network marketing, but today it probably is right. Like to go man, like social media, like a lot of these companies thrive or maybe I, I mean, I don’t know, like I’m not as much into it. I mean, I keynote at some of the events, but like, you know, it sure seems like leveraging social media. I mean, you tell me like leveraging social media to grow your business is a, is a, is one way to do it. Like I very, I hear you’re saying you can do it cold, which I believe in, I mean, I was knocking on doors in 2006. Yeah. When people had the internet and people are going, no one is gonna buy books. People have the internet. And yet I made more money than I, than I had any of the previous summers. Like people will always buy from cold calling. It’s not the easiest most glamor, but it totally works. So
RH (12:38):
Here here’s, here’s the difference like you know, for example, way back when, when I first started social media was bashed by every guru and network marketing. So 2009, every guru that is now all for it was like, oh, that doesn’t duplicate, that’s too complicated. I remember going to a conference and you know, a leader, one of the leaders in the company came up to me and said, Hey you’re the guy that recruits a lot of people on Facebook. Right. And I’m like, oh yeah, you know. Yeah, sure. And he said, well, I prefer duplication. And then I’m like, okay, like I, I love that kind of stuff. And so, you know, five months later when I was the number one incomer in the company, I kind of, you know, waved home a little bit. And so like, I I’ve been through all of that.
RH (13:23):
Right now you, of course, should be teaching your team social media for sure. To me, there’s a distinction between teaching how to properly use Instagram, Facebook. How, how do you do reels even TikTok? Like all of those are free platforms. It’s when, to me, it’s when you start to get one level above that, an email list podcast blogging that requires specific knowledge and, and tools. I think you, you should be teaching social media to your team, you know, period that should, that should be part of, of the deal. So even now, if I was running a team, which we retired from building a team in 2016, if I was running a team right now and someone wanted to learn social media from me, I, I would teach ’em I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t charge ’em for that if they were in my organization.
RV (14:08):
Yeah. Let’s talk about that for a second. So like, what are, what are some of the things that you should be doing, you know, and, and for those of you listening, like I just wanna highlight and go network marketing is really just marketing. Like direct sales is really just sales. Like whether you happen to be, you know, selling a supplement and there’s some type of override or whatever, or you’re, you’re running a local donut shop. Like there’s not a lot of the, to a lot of the principles apply. They don’t always, but, so just kind of keep that in mind, but like talking specifically about network marketing, Ray, like if somebody was just starting out today and they just signed with, you know, whatever, pick, pick your, pick your marketing company, what, what should they be doing on social media slash with their personal brand to immediately drive like revenue for their business, new customers?
RH (15:05):
Yeah. And for first, just regarding like, you know, Hey, sales is sales, marketing is marketing the it’s, it’s smarter to think like a franchise, you know, there there’s a line in Michael Gerber’s E MIF book that says the reason McDonald’s franchises rarely fail is because they were designed to be ran by the person with the lowest level of skill. And so that’s how we think about all, all of our training. Can the person with no skill, no influence, no business or sales background, can they do this thing that we’re teaching? And if it requires those things, then that’s not good network. To me, that’s not good network marketing teaching. And so as far as social media, there’s, you know, there’s a few, there’s a few factors. I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s are factors to, will you succeed in network marketing or not pipeline, which is number of people you reach out to follow up with set appointments, with send samples to if that’s what your company does position understanding the position of the prospect when you’re in a conversation, right?
RH (16:08):
So if they havet express any interest, you have no knowledge. Then you have to see if they’re open first, not try to close. ’em See if they’re open three posture, are you easily affected by the opinions of others? Are you to believe in what you have regardless of external acceptance or approval and number four perspective, which is your, your mindset. So how does that translate to social media? Well, you have two categories, prospecting market, right? And so marketing the top of the marketing food chain right now, without question, there is no doubt is the short video we’re in the short video phenomenon, it’s unlike anything any marketer has ever seen. You know, like I was, you know, the last hot trend and marketing in my opinion was way back in, you know, late two thousands, which was Google AdWords and that’s, you know, advertising, but that was red hot.
RH (17:01):
You know, I was taught by a guy that was dropping $30,000 a day, but he was making profit $30,000 a day. And, you know, and it’s, that was crazy. There’s so many people making money on that. The difference now is you now have, have a way to reach more people that don’t know you than ever before and for free. And so, you know, we have students, we, we have one student, she’s got a video, it’s got 15 million views and she didn’t spend a dime on it. And that’s more than who watched the Olympics.
RH (17:53):
So if I was starting right now and I had, let’s just assume big goals, I would have a a prospecting number and I would have a marketing metric of at least three reels a day. So I’d be doing three reels a day. And this is, you know, just adjust if your goals are smaller. But if you, you have big goals, you wanna hit six, seven figures. I would be doing three reels a day and I would have a prospecting goal. And that, that is whatever you have the time for. You know, like when I, when I was serious about becoming the number one income earn, I set a goal of 20 nos a day. So I had to hear 20 nos that day, every day
RH (18:36):
So have a number of how many human beings am I asking if they’re open to my product service or opportunity per day. And that is the key question. Not how many comments am I dropping? Not how many friend requests am I sending? Not how many, you know, anything else, how are you today? Right? None of those I’m I’m saying how many people are you asking? Are you open to my product service or opportunity per day? You combine that with, you know, two, three reels a day optimal, you’re going to build a business and you know, it’s, it’s simple, not easy. And, and I found the no number, one reason that, that people aren’t consistent has nothing to do with tactical or nothing to do with routines or, or anything like that. And we can, we can talk about that if you would like, or if you have more questions.
RV (19:21):
Well, yeah, like I, I think that’s a good, that is good to talk about. I mean, when I, like when I was in college and I was knocking on doors, that was the whole thing was, was you have to do 30 demos in a day. Like you gotta just, you just gotta show this to 30 people who meet the basic criteria qualifications. And it was, you know, it was always, it’s not the theory of averages. It’s the law of averages. And if you show this to 30 people, one to two will buy it. Like no matter how bad you are, right. One to two people are gonna buy it just because they, they need it. And it’s, you know, hopefully it’s a good, it’s a good product. So like I, I do want to hear about the mental side of it. That one thing that I wanna highlight though, that you said that I really love is like, when most people teach marketing that are gonna teach likes followers, comments, shares, engagement, et cetera.
RV (20:15):
But when you said the focus is do three reels a day, which is totally in your control. Yes. And, and focusing on, or like the thing you can control. And it’s like, I don’t know how many views that’ll be. I don’t know how many followers I’ll get. I don’t know how many comments will show up, but like I’m gonna commit to three reels. Every single day is a hugely powerful shift. Just, you know, tactically mentally, even spiritually to go focus, focus on that. So I would like to hear more about why aren’t people consistent, cuz my guess is it has more to do with that perspective as you say that like mindset component. Yeah.
RH (20:58):
You know, I’ve cuz I I’m, I’m a, I’m a consistent guy. I mean I did, you know, I did a video a day every day for 12 years straight because I’m, I’m a lunatic and, and so people have asked me over the years, Hey, what’s your daily routine or how are you so consistent? And so I was, I was a little slow at learning this admittedly looking back, but for the first like five or six years, I would just teach years. My routine and people are like, oh man, that’s awesome. Thank you so much. Then they wouldn’t do it. And so like I’m, I’m like pulling my students. I’m like, Hey, who is anyone doing this? Nobody was doing it. And so I’m, I’m teaching. I’m like, okay, I gotta up my game. I gotta be a better teacher. And so I started asking myself, okay, why do I do it?
RH (21:40):
I’m like, okay. A vision, a vision of who I want to become. So I started teaching that probably five to 8% of people started doing it. And I’m like, okay, there’s gotta be another answer. And what I realized is that there’s two categories of people. There’s, there’s the people that are borderline workaholics. Like I was that are hustling, grinding and to talk about consistency is like that. They’re confused. Right? Why do people, why do do you mean cuz they’re, we’re just, we’re we’re just designed for this stuff and for me, and a lot of, of people that I’ve now coached that’s actually a coping mechanism. It’s actually a coping mechanism with not wanting to spend time with yourself or actually having low self-esteem, which, you know, I grew up in a very abusive home and I didn’t think that that was of affecting me anymore, but it was, it was due to some of those issues of why I struggled to be present with people, why I struggled to have great relationships, but I was always consistent at working the other 95% of people that aren’t consistent.
RH (22:45):
I have found 100% of the time. It is they’ve drawn the wrong conclusion to success based on an observation they made as a kid. Hmm. A hundred percent of the time. So if you had a a parent who was really, really successful and then lost it, all a program was most likely created in you that made you really scared of being ridiculed and never wanting to have a big fall. So if you are afraid of climbing the, of falling off the mountain, just don’t ever climb it. And so what’ll happen is people will get to this, this certain level. And then they’ll just find themselves either distracted, they’ll join a different company or they’ll just not be motivated anymore because past the level is danger. And so the program is there not to hurt you, but to prevent you from feeling a way that really scares you or becoming someone you don’t wanna become, if your parents were really successful and they ignored you, you very likely drew the conclusion that successful parent means ignore a kid.
RH (23:50):
And I don’t want my kids to feel that way. So I don’t know why I can’t get past this level. And you know, I remember I, I coached a lady Tara this was on clubhouse and she like so many people that I’ve I’ve, you know, coached sense. She would go into a company and just rock it up to the top, just crush it, just make it rain break records. And then she would find something wrong and, and leave. And everyone’s like, wait, she left.
RH (24:37):
No drama, no trauma, no abuse, nothing. And you know, they’re awesome. They’re perfect. I’m like, Hmm. Okay. And I know that at programs, often block memories. And so I said, Hey, it’s okay if we don’t, if we don’t, you know, figure it out today. And she’s like, and she remembers catching her mom cheating on her dad. Now five minutes before she said they were perfect. And I know, I know what’s going on, but she’s like, well, what does I have to do with my career? Everything as a kid, she was out of control. She had this perfect scenario was feeling really good about life. And then something happened outside of her control and her reality was crashed. So every time she starts feeling really good about something, she knows that she was about to. So she makes the choice with awareness of that program. She no longer has that program. So now she’s been able to rocket in her, the current company that she’s with. But that’s one example of, of hundreds of different examples. I’ve seen where something happened in the past. Like if we have time, I’ll give one, you know, one more example, you know, when people struggle with motivation,
RV (25:51):
I wanna hear this. I just wanna make sure I’m, I’m, I’m hearing you correctly. That basically you’re saying the reason that people don’t perform is because there is some underlying program that was written perhaps and likely subconsciously yes. From the time they were young yes. That they carry with them. It operates in the background and it basically sabotages them because they there’s this kind of underlying program that’s running in the background.
RH (26:27):
Yes, absolutely. And it’ll disguise it so off as overthinking perfectionism procrastination, or just lack of, of motivation like mine. The one that I discovered I’ve discovered, you know, several is when I was a kid in that house of abuse, some of the relatives knew that no one did anything about it. And so a program was created of, I’m not a priority that program you know, up until this last year, year and a half, I didn’t realize it. But I was that into every relationship I ever had, including the one with my wife. So I would locate and verify how I was in a priority. And that’s why I really struggled with relationships. And if you struggle with relationships, there’s, there’s gonna be a cap to how much impact you can possibly have. And, and so, you know, by me discovering my programs, I’ve been able, a lot of people discover theirs.
RV (27:26):
Yeah. And so you’re, and, and so that’s always there. I mean, all of us have something. I mean, there’s some, there’s something on the hard drive, right. So the you were gonna use one other, you were gonna tell one other example.
RH (27:39):
Yeah. so I was coaching a lady maybe a few months ago and she said, you know, I, I, I get to a certain level and then I’m just like, you know, I’m just not, I’m just not motivated. I know I could do more, but I’m just not motivated. And, and I asked her this very, you know, specific question I said, at what point in your childhood did you figure out that trying hard really didn’t matter. And she’s like, oh, you know, I remember this one day I used my easy bake oven to make these cookies for my dad. And I spent all day making ’em and I decorated ’em. I had ’em all perfect and everything. And when he came home, he yelled at me for using the, the kitchen materials. And man, I think that’s the last time I really tried hard in my life.
RH (28:28):
And so, you know, we’re that, that program is trying to prevent you from feeling that feeling again, it’s not is it’s, it’s trying to keep you safe. It thinks that it’s serving you and it doesn’t want you to figure it out. And so you, you have to do some pretty intense work to, to figure this kind of stuff out. And, but if you’re are not consistent, I guarantee you now, I can’t say that of everyone, but if you’re watching this, if you’re listening to this then, and you’re not consistent, it’s not because you’re lazy. It’s because you’ve drawn the wrong conclusion to getting higher than you currently are. Whatever that means, money impact following success, you know, whatever that means, but you’ve drawn a bad conclusion. There’s something wrong with you stepping it up. It’s something wrong with the next level for you?
RV (29:14):
How do you spot it?
RH (29:18):
The key is one not easy to do by yourself. The, the real key is patterns. Cause you, the decisions that you’ve made have been driven by have been driven by this, these programs, because before you’re aware, you’re on autopilot, right? You’re the puppet on a string. And, and so you’re just you knowing around the cliff, you’re going up and down and you’re making these decisions, thinking that you’re making the decisions, the program’s making the decisions, the program’s making, you see things in a certain light to keep you nice and safe. And so when you become aware, you can, you can become defiant to them. Right? So, you know, like the first time I really confronted my program of me not being a priority. It was a very tough time. My mind, I felt like I was under attack. I mean, my mind was going nuts.
RH (30:12):
And I just thought I was in a, you know, little argument with my wife and I, it came up. I, you’re not a priority, but it’s still a good relationship. That’s what my mind said. And I said, no, I don’t wanna feel that way anymore. I don’t wanna think that anymore. Cuz that’s not true. And
RV (30:44):
Mm-Hmm
RH (30:57):
I mean, that’s, that’s gonna vary based on, you know, based on your life, you know, that’s gonna vary on what, what you’re doing and, and what, you know, what it’s all about. Like, you know, for me, I can now once you become aware of it, you can kind of look backwards and, and, and, you know, like Steve jobs said connect the dots. Right. And and I can see that I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had that program my whole life I’ve had in every friendship, in every business relationship and every personal, I mean, in every relationship I was, I was seeking to prove that I was not a priority and I always verified it because we always verified what we’re seeking.
RV (31:36):
Mm-Hmm
RH (31:39):
So I know we kind of went from network mark. I mean, to deep, deep stuff, here
RV (31:43):
You go. We’re marketing to social media to sort of like limiting beliefs. But the, I mean, I, I think this applies a lot, right? Because a lot of people, I mean, people have the same programs about personal branding or social media, right? Social media is stupid. Social media is a waste of time, social media, whatever. And it’s like, well, there’s a reason why it’s not working for you. Right? Like that’s what you, that’s what you think about it. And it, it’s not the only it’s by, by no means the only way to succeed. But like those underlying programs I think are really, really, you know, they’re, they are really critical. And I think it, you know, tying back to my very first question about like, how do network marketing companies deal with how much flexibility or control they try to extend over the personal brands?
RV (32:30):
There is this old school thought of, I think that is for the most part, been pretty pervasive, which is control. Like we have to, we have to put a fence around our people and, and sort of like shelter them from the rest of the world. And that is really a conflict with like a whole world of decentralization where things are blowing up. Everyone has access to everything. We all see what’s going on in other people’s lives. We can talk to anyone around the world and it’s like, that’s a really big, you know, conflict that we’re, we’re, we’re wrestling with.
RH (33:06):
I, I just, I don’t, I, I just don’t see, you know, and we, I mean, we coach a lot of different leaders work with a lot of different students in different companies. I just don’t see the mega control growing nearly at the pace of some of the more freer companies. And, you know, we’re just, you know, it used to be like, okay, maybe you’re in, you know, whatever you’re in Alabama. And, and there’s only one company that you know of in your area right. Then, okay. You can kind of be controlling, but as soon as you start to ask your show, the question of what if I bring in a big doctor, what if I bring in an author? What if I bring in an influencer, as soon as you bring that up, it’s kind of like, well, well, we gotta accommodate them. Like, well, how can we, how can we say, okay, if you’re successful already, you can keep doing that stuff, but don’t, you dare try to, it just doesn’t make sense. Does
RV (33:58):
That happen? I mean, does that, I mean, I, I know that like oh,
RH (34:01):
All the time
RV (34:02):
Happen all the time,
RH (34:04):
All the time. I mean, so, I mean, I saw, I mean, we recruited one of the top I think like top 10 orthopedic surgeons in the country here in Naples, Florida, I recruited Ron LaGrand. You may know that name. I mean, he ran a, he still, I haven’t stayed in touch with him, but he runs a, a big real estate investment, you know, education company. I think they were doing 20 million a year. We brought in quite a few doctors actually brought in different authors, brought in different speakers for sure. And, and that’s something that a lot of these influencers, you know, they, they, they make money, but most of ’em don’t have residual income. So I, I, I think it’s actually very smart for an influencer if done, right. To have a network marketing thing on, on the background, on the back end, they don’t talk about it every, you know, real or every, you know, post, but to have one in the, in the background so that they can start to build more residual income, cuz most people don’t have that most business owners don’t have that.
RV (35:09):
No, but I think you, I think y’all one, one of the things I’ve been surprised is, you know, at brand builders group, we end up seeing a lot of clients that come to us. You have thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of followers. And they’re going all wanna write a book or build my speaking career, whatever. And we come to find out that somewhere in their back end, they have a, they have a network marketing and that like that a lot of their money comes from the, the, the thing that’s really financing the growth of their personal brand in many cases is more of the network, the network marketing backend. It’s not so much that they’re making money from their personal brand, it’s that they’re using their personal brand and they’re driving people to something on the backend. Like I’ve been shocked at how common that is
RH (35:54):
Very, very common. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a natural thing of if you, if you gain success and you feel that limelight in a network marketing company, cuz network marketing companies are amazing at edification, making people feel good, feel appreciated. And so you, you, you know, you get a taste of that and you know, you, you may get a taste and you’re at a point where to get bigger taste is a really big leap or you’ve already tasted all the limelight you can, you know, possibly get and you still want to grow. You wanna stretch out. And so it goes from being the person, you know, signing autographs in your company to getting people outside of your company, to know you, which is actually beneficial for the company. And that’s, that’s where, you know, some companies I think misunderstand think that they’re going away, they’re actually, you know, going out into foreign lands and, and, you know, informing more people about that company, if they’re treated right. If they’re not treated right, then a lot of times that influencer’s gonna make a different decision.
RV (36:52):
Yeah. Well, and I, you know, the thing I’ve always,
RH (37:45):
That, that’s a, that’s a great point. So when a new person would come to me and say, Hey, I wanna do blogging. I wanna do podcasting or whatever, I’d say, okay. You know, I, you, you certainly can now just understand it’s more expense of, and it takes longer when, starting than if you just follow the system. And so, you know, and, and nine times outta 10, I would talk ’em outta that fame because they think that’s simple, fast and easy. And, and it’s not, you know, it’s not simple, fast and easy build a YouTube channel or, or a huge following or a blog or, or a podcast. And so like, you know, I would always give, you know, the freedom of choice. Hey, you can, might take you a little bit longer than if you do it this way. And if they’re looking for speed, that’s really good advice because you doing the, you doing the basics of, of prospecting and, and, you know, basic marketing, you’re gonna get faster results than building out, you know, infrastructures. And, and so, you know, it, it is a good point. What a lot of, of, of influencers do is not what they did to reach the top. You know, a lot of them, you know, did you know, did the work prospecting, marketing the basics, reach the top then became an influencer and most, but most people don’t understand that. So you, you do need to teach that.
RV (39:05):
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s really similar to like, you know, people we’re really big on find your uniqueness, figure out the one thing that you can do in the world better than anyone else. And that that’s really how you break through the wall. Not by trying to talk about lots of things and lots of places to lots of different people and people go, well, what about Gary Vaynerchuck? And we say, Gary’s actually the perfect example, because he does talk about everything now. But in the beginning he talked about wine on just YouTube. And that was how he broke through the wall, right? Like in the beginning, the rock was just a wrestler in the beginning, Ellen DeGeneres was just a comedian. Like it, they, they, they all break through on the one thing it’s really similar to, to this conversation. And people need to be taught. Don’t do what they’re doing now, do what they did to get there.
RH (39:53):
Right. And, and here’s the thing about dub, how you generate a lead is not what has to be duplicatable, because if that were true, then you couldn’t, you couldn’t recruit an influencer, an author, you couldn’t recruit a doctor. You
RV (40:09):
Say that again,
RH (40:10):
The way you generate a lead does not have to be duplicatable. What you do with the lead that’s what has to be duplicatable. So if you’re relying on your, so however you generate a lead that does not have to be duplicatable because I know people you don’t, and that doctor knows has clients, and I’m not gonna tell ’em don’t you dare talk to your clients, cuz not everyone has clients like that would make no sense. It’s what you do with the lead. So if the doctor has a pamphlet in their, in their you know, office and people say, Hey doc, you know, you know, here, let’s just say opportunity. Hey doc, it says right here, I can make some, you know, extra money you know, is this something I should do? If the doctor says, yes, I highly recommend it. That’s not duplicatable.
RH (40:56):
If the doctor says, you know what? We have a short video and this is the video that will tell you if it’s a fit for you or not. And by the way, if you ever wanna tell other people, you’d use this same video, watch this video, see if it’s a fit for you. That’s duplicatable now is how he generated the lead duplicatable. No, and it doesn’t need to be, it’s what you do with the lead. So when I would have people come to me after building a brand and say, Hey man, I wanna work with you. I don’t know what company you’re in, but I’m gonna give you my credit card. I would, I would have that happen. And I’d say, Hey, I really appreciate that. That is awesome. Thank you so very much. But you know what? Let’s make sure this thing’s a fit for you. I’m gonna send your short video, watch this video. And the cool thing is that’s the same video that you’ll use. Okay. That’s duplicatable. It says, oh, oh, I must watch a video before I join this thing to kind of get the gist of it. Got it. And it’s the same tool that I would use if I rely on personality, charisma or influence, that’s not duplicatable. And so it’s not how I generate the lead. It’s what I do with the lead. Once they’re in the conversation, once we’re having that communication,
RV (41:55):
Mm-Hmm
RH (42:12):
Yeah. You know, if you’re a, you know, like a lifelong learner, like, like me, I mean I do self development every single day and I have for forever
RV (42:50):
That’s that’s I mean, if you made a video every single day for what did you say? 12 years. 13
RH (42:56):
Years. Yeah. I, so from Ja July 15th, 2009 to July of 2021, I made a, at least one video a day. And the only reason I stopped is I was in a meditation retreat. I’m just like, eh, I’m not gonna do it.
RV (43:09):
Yeah, that’s funny. I,
RH (43:10):
But then I picked it back up the next week.
RV (43:14):
Yeah. Well, I, I think you know, this is interesting Ray and I, I think to me, there is, there is the world of network marketing and affiliate marketing and info marketing and digital marketing all seem to sort of like be colliding, like as, as the tools are available to everybody and the lifestyle is available to everybody and people are more interested in freedom and, you know, time what’s, what’s your book, time, time, freedom, money, right?
RH (43:48):
Yeah. time, time, money, freedom, time,
RV (43:51):
Money, freedom
RH (43:52):
By hay house. Yep. That’s my wife and I wrote this and it’s you know, this is not specific to network marketing. It’s you know, 10 simple rules to redefine what’s possible and radically reshape your life. It’s basically what what I, I did to get out of foreclosure and, and build a, you know, a business and it’s what Jess did to get away from the makeup counter. And and so, you know, it’s helped lot of people inside and outside network marketing.
RV (44:19):
Yeah. Well, super thought provoking, man. Always great to connect with you. Thank you so much for your time and keep helping, helping people make rank, man. You’re you’re you’re doing it.
RH (44:30):
My pleasure, man. Thanks for having me.
Ep 287: How To Break Through The Noise with Lindsay Czarniak | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
All right, y’all welcome to my recap of my conversation with Lindsay Czarniak loved this conversation and I love her. I think she’s so cool. And she’s so down to earth and it’s just an awesome, conversation like if you’ve ever wondered, like how do you get to be doing the things that you see people on TV doing, which I often do and be like, how, how did you get into this? And, you know, how did you get to be the one to report on this or do this? This is a really cool behind the scenes sneak peak on what I would say, like Lindsay’s rise to all the things that she’s done, both sports related and non-sports related, which I just so cool. Right. and I loved it and I just think she’s just an awesome human being, so, okay. I could go on and on about that.
AJV (01:44):
So I’m gonna give you my top three takeaways at legit. I’m holding up a notebook, have like 10, so I’m gonna have to narrow it down here as I’m actually doing this recap episode. But here’s the first thing, and this is just a great reminder to all of us is the importance of building relationships. Not because you need them are not because you think you’re gonna need them one day, but because you genuinely care about other human beings and I love what she said. She goes, you build relationships, not, not because you think you’re gonna need ’em one day. But you build them because there’s a, a genuine desire to just know other people. And she said, it’s, it’s been a constant reminder throughout her life, as it is mine, and probably yours of the way you treat people matters. And it’s a reflection of your heart.
AJV (02:34):
It’s a reflection of how you view yourself. And that means a lot to other people, right? I was actually in a call with, I don’t know if it was a webinar. I can’t remember what it was. Oh, I D know what it was. I was at a conference. I was at a conference on customer experience and I was sitting in the audience and the speaker who up, who also happens to be a close friend and an amazing author, John de Julius he said, what if you lived every day, like the way you treated people today is how you would be remembered. And that just hit me in a really profound way of if today was my last day on earth, is how I’m treating people the way I want to be remembered when I’m gone. Or, you know, is today a day where I’m being short or, you know, just flippant because I’m tired or overwhelmed or, you know, is today the day that I actually had time in patience and stop to say hello and get to know someone or help somebody with, you know, a bag of groceries or whatever it is.
AJV (03:43):
And I think it’s just, it’s, it’s a sign of your heart. And that was like a big thing to me is how you treat people as a reflection of how you view yourself and how you view others. And people take note of that. So build relationships, not because you think you need, ’em not because they’re gonna do something with you, but because you generally care about humans, right? You, you generally care about the people around you, what their name is, what their story is. And at the very least, you know, it’s, you, you care enough to say hello, right. To give them time and respect. I think that really matters. And that it shapes your reputation. It shapes how people view you. So just a great, never ending forever, always reminder of the importance of relationships and how you treat people. Second thing is this is tactical.
AJV (04:29):
Just a quick tip for any of you who get nervous on camera or who our camera’s shy. I thought this was really great. I love this. And it’s what I have noted here in my notes is the, the post-it rule, right? So it’s like your entire script for your video should fit on a post-it note. In other words, it should not have many words and it should be really short. And I love that. It’s like pick out three things that you wanna talk about in any interview, ironically, we talk about three things in our recaps, but talk about three things that you wanna talk about in any conversation or any video that you’re doing. And just write down the words that are gonna make you remember that point and then be you. And that’s the key it’s like, what people really want on camera is not some long scripted, highly produced animated video.
AJV (05:18):
What they want to hear is from someone they can relate to someone that’s personable, someone that’s being authentic, someone that’s genuine that you can listen to and go, man, it’s like, I’ve had questions like that. Or I wondered things like that before. Whether it’s educational inspirational or informational or just entertainment, it’s like, keep it to the, keep it to the basics. So you let pressure off yourself, right? The more you force yourself to stick to an outline or memorize something, the more pressure you put on yourself. And quite honestly, it’s like when we have a hiccup, that’s when we get even more nervous and it just makes it worse. So what if you just had a post-it note with like three or four key words that will help you remember the points that you’re trying to make, and then you can just have a conversation.
AJV (06:06):
You can just be yourself and share because that’s what people really want. And she talked about how she did this when everything happened with George Floyd and she interviewed her mother-in-law and she’s you know, and she just said, I just, this wasn’t anything to do with sports or my professional career, but I had questions. And I figured if I have questions, other people like me have questions. So I’m gonna ask them and I’m gonna record it, and I’m gonna share. And that won her a Gracie award for women in sports who are making, are creating influential movements that, that wasn’t scripted or highly produced or animated, and didn’t have pretty bumpers or graphics. It was a conversation amongst two people who were having real live conversations around real life challenges in, in like live in the moment in real time.
AJV (06:59):
That is what people are looking for. So just remember that the next time you go to do an interview or make a video, it’s like, people want more of who you are. Don’t, don’t get consumed with having it scripted and outlined just have a conversation. So the post-it the post-it rule, right? Three words on a post-it note, that’s all you need. And the rest is just be, you just be you all right. Last thing super, super short, super simple, but really significant is the more relatable you are, the more fans you create. I love that. And it’s like it will simultaneously create non-fan that’s okay. That’s not your audience, but the more relatable you are, the more fans you will create. Y’all go check out this episode. It’s so cool. She’s awesome. You know, she, she gave us her handle. She said, follow her on Instagram. It’s Lindsay C, Z not her full names. Aniak but just C, Z. So go check her out, follow her on Instagram. You’re gonna learn really cool things about how she loves fishing and early mornings and telling silly dad jokes, like check her out, check out this interview. So good. Come back next time and get more tips on how to build an influential personal brand.
Ep 286: How To Break Through The Noise with Lindsay Czarniak
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, y’all and welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. One of your co-hosts and I am so excited to have our guests on the show today. Lindsay is a newer friend of mine, but we have a really good friend in common Stephanie show stack. And as Stephanie was so kind to introduce us a couple of months ago, and ever since then we’ve had emails and conversations and honestly, Linda, like one of those people that as soon as you have a conversation, it kind of feels like we’ve been friends for a really long time, even though we just met a couple of months ago. And I love that about you. I agree. I think that’s so awesome. All right, so everybody, I’m gonna give you a super high kinda background on who is Lindsay Sarnia, and then I’m gonna let her introduce herself, but here are some of the professional accolades that you should know is that she is both an Emmy award and a Gracie award-winning broadcaster.
AJV (01:56):
She has been on NFL reporter with Fox, a NASCAR contributor, which means so awesome being from the south, you know, there’s always good NASCAR. I love around here. But she was also with ESPN for the best part of half of a decade. She was anchoring sports and sports nation NASCAR. Now she was the first woman to host the network’s coverage of Indianapolis 500 on E NBC. I mean, I could go on and on and on. She was, had this awesome podcast. She’s an artist, a future children’s book illustrator, which you said, just talking about. But also I think this is really cool. It’s like you didn’t just kind of fall into the world of sports broadcasting and journalism. You kind of grew up in that, right? Cuz your dad was a sports editor and a reporter. You’re also an athlete yourself.
AJV (02:52):
You played college lacrosse and field hockey. I mean I could go on and on and on. It’s like a two page highlight reel of all things Lindsay Sarnia but that’s just a high level and those are really just the professional things, not the personal things about who you are. And I’ll just tell everyone listeners, if you were just tuning in, stick around for this interview Lindsay is so down to earth. She’s so humble. She’s so cool. And she’s also done things in a very male dominated world, but somehow find found a way to break through the noise and really stand out in a pretty, I would say busy and noisy space and a really competitive one. So if you wanna figure out how to stand out, you need to stick around and listen to this episode. So Lindsay love show, oh my gosh.
LC (03:42):
I don’t even know how to follow that up, AJ. That was so nice.
AJV (04:32):
Oh, well the feeling is mutual. This has been so fun. Alright, so I’m gonna start with this same question I ask every single guest and this is really your chance to help our audience get to know you, but also kind of give us a highlight reel of how did you get to where you are in such a fiercely competitive industry. One that’s not saturated with lots of women. I imagine there’s been lots of peaks and valleys through this journey, but you have ended into this really amazing place and created a really amazing reputation for yourself that you are now going to be able to take and leverage through these all, all these amazing things. So I just wanna like give us a background story.
AJV (05:22):
Like where did you start and how did you get to where you are?
LC (05:25):
Thank you so much. I I mean on when I think about that and that question, I think about one specific moment in my career journey, because it was the moment that for me really was the pivot point that I didn’t, I never saw coming. I didn’t expect it. And it was so random because I simply joined some folks from my TV station I was working at to go take in a NASCAR race. Okay. So that’s where this whole thing took place and I’ll, I’ll get to that in a second, but I really do, as I look back the things that I think have helped me get to this place where I am now is it’s really all about the relationships. I mean, I, I really, and I don’t mean relationships of who, you know, to get to where you are.
LC (06:16):
I mean, the way you treat people, I really do believe that. And I think that that is so important and every step I’ve taken along the way at every different job I have had, I’ve, I’ve seen some example of that. I feel like from someone who has been either a mentor or someone just that I looked up to and I really, really believe in that I started out you know, I graduated from James Madison university. I wanted so badly to move to New York because I wanted to be on MTV
LC (07:15):
I think, you know, how you look back at different parts of what you’ve done and you’re like, oh wow, well that was what was getting me ready for this. Or that’s the first place that I experienced this. So I didn’t get a job in New York and out of college, I was trying to figure out where I, where I wanted to go. I had whittled it down to, I either wanted to work in like film. I was really interested in writing and I thought, well, maybe I could learn how to be a writer. And then eventually like create screenplays or I definitely, I have a passion for art and I thought, well, maybe I wanna go the direction to be, you know, an animation somehow and all that. But somewhere along the line, my senior year of college we had an opportunity to do a TV show.
LC (07:56):
And within that class, basically it was a practicum. We had to learn every single part of putting on a TV show of a broadcast. And when it was my week to do the hosting with a co-host, that was it like that’s all I needed. I was so hooked. I loved every second of it. I would’ve stayed in class for five hours if you could’ve let me, like, I was just so into what we were doing. It like lit something up inside of me and I was, and, and honestly I wanted to be like the music review person on our show. I just I’ve always had this interest and connection in like music and the way music makes people feel and the power it has. And it’s funny cuz now I see that also in sports, but to get to my pivot point. So I left JMU, I got a job at CNN in Atlanta and it was a behind the scenes job.
LC (08:46):
They have a program where you can start out and you’re called a video journalist and you start out, it’s all for kids that have come in recently graduated and you’re doing these entry level roles. Right. So I was really lucky to like to land one of those spots. But that also when I think back I’m like, man, I sat there on my computer. We barely had internet. I was like, just looking up these jobs. I don’t even know how I did it. And, but like somehow I found that job. So I moved to Atlanta and then being there at CNN, you know, I realized, yes, this is the industry that I wanna like definitely continue in, but I’m obviously not going to be on air and really earn like hone those reporter chops being at CNN. So I put together a tape. I helped like really by leaning on people that I was working with and being like, Hey, can I come in on a Saturday or can I come in on my day off and just rewrite this story that someone did and you can critique me or maybe I can pay my camera crew that really works at CNN, but I would pay them with six packs of beer in my grandma’s cookie
LC (09:52):
You know? And like I can, and then I would, I would pay an editor basically to put it together for me. And that’s how I put my tape together. And I ended up working in Jacksonville, Florida. That was my first on air job. And I really thought I wanted to do news at that point because I, I never saw sports on my radar. I loved sports. My dad was a sports journalist, but that wasn’t my, like not what, what really fueled me. Right. I was like, I wanna be a news reporter anchor, or I wanna do entertainment, something within that. Anyway. So I got a job news reporter in Jacksonville and around a year into that job, which was great, but it was great because it was the morning show. I could mess up a ton, which I did. And not that many people saw me.
LC (10:39):
LC (11:26):
It was men and women. We were hanging out with, it was a concert. We were where they were playing. And these guys happened to be with speed channel and speed channel was a channel that put on racing. And from that one interaction, they knew I was reporter. And in February, a few months later, Dale Earnhardt senior died the legendary race car driver. And they called me because I had met them and they said, we need reporters to talk to fans about what he meant to them. And we know you’re in Jacksonville, are you available? Could you come work for us? And my station, let me do it. And so that became this random thing where that snowballed into, Hey, we have an opening for a pit reporter in our really entry level racing series called ACA, are you available? And at the time in Jacksonville, they were like, well, yeah, if it’s on your weekends and you wanna go do it, go do it.
LC (12:17):
So I worked 13 weekends out of the year going and leaving my news job to go be this pit reporter. And I knew nothing about racing. I mean, I was walking into the garage being like, I mean, I can’t even tell you how green I was. And like what an idiot. I probably looked like asking the questions I was asking, but anyway, really to wrap this up, cuz now I’m so sorry. This answer’s like seven minutes. I.
AJV (12:41):
That’s awesome though.
LC (12:42):
Well, the station that I was working at where I was a news reporter that probably my last year there, they were going to cover the sports department. The guys were going to cover one of the races at Daytona and they were like, Hey, we know that you’re into racing. If you wanna come with us and just help us out. I was like, I would love to, I would love to go to Daytona.
LC (13:03):
I don’t have anything that day. Let me come do, I’ll just carry your equipment and bring you water, whatever. So we’re in victory lane waiting for the driver who won the race to interview him. And this camera crew from Miami, we we’re just talking, cuz we’re waiting. And we strike up this conversation and we were waiting for like an hour and near the end of the conversation, they were like, you know, we actually have an opening in our sports department in Miami. And the main part of that job would be to cover the dolphins. But we think that maybe you’d be really a good fit with us and would love for you to put your tape in. And I was like, what? That’s ridiculous. It’s sports. It’s not like that’s. They were like, well you’d be our third sports anchor. And anyway, so that was it.
LC (13:46):
Like I had I not gone to Daytona, had I not gotten that elevated interest in racing because of that meeting by happenstance in Daytona when I was just there on a weekend with one of my girlfriends none of that would’ve happened. And so I do think when I think back to my path, a lot of it is saying yes and just going for it, but also listening to that little nudge of, yeah, try this. Like don’t, you know, like, I guess in a way it’s like finding your gut and I used to be really, really, really horrible at that, but now I figured out how to identify it. Which is a whole different story in itself anyway. Wow. I know, I think there’s a lot of insight into that and you know, it’s like I literally pulled out my notebook and started taking notes because I think these are the great stories that are so often never told.
AJV (14:42):
And that’s what I love so much about getting to do conversations. Like this is a great reminder for both me, but also every single person listening that there is no such thing as an overnight success, you know, it’s like, I think the biggest challenge that we face in this world of instant gratification is we compare our step one to your step 1000. Yeah. Somehow think right. You know, we see Lindsay on ESPN or covering the Olympics or doing all these amazing things. And it’s like, oh, I wanna do that. But what we forget is, oh no, no, you started behind the scenes doing nothing on TV and working double time on the weekends, keep people in six packs of beer and saying yes to your weekends, giving up, you know, a third of your free time to go. What’s next? What’s next? Just saying yes.
AJV (15:35):
And it’s like, I was trying to count like how many moves you made before you got to be doing what you’re doing? Like that’s a lot of work. That’s a lot of commitment over a lot of years. And we it’s a lot.
LC (15:49):
That became like a in, in our industry. I think a lot of people have a similar background with that. And I, but I I’m always intrigued to hear people’s path and when they stopped because you do really, you know, the traditional path is that you’re hopping and you’re, you know, and I think also with that something you said made me think about expectations. That’s a really big lesson that I have learned and that I think for young people or folks coming up really in any industry, other people’s expectations, you know, it took me a long time before I realized like, oh, that wasn’t, that’s really what they thought.
LC (16:33):
I thought I should be doing that because that’s what everyone was saying. Or I can identify when people have said something that I got really excited about because I felt like maybe they were giving me an expectation or like they were giving me confidence by saying, oh no doubt. You’ll be here in 10 years. No doubt you’ll be there. And then what happens when you get to that point and your path has been different? Like there are so many ways that I think you can let expectations that other people have just kind of soak in there. Like we don’t even do it intentionally. You just, so I think that’s a practice that I have tried to figure out ways to squash is what are my expectations? What are like now that that life bulb went off for me. What, how do you in a healthy way, live with what my expectations really are for myself.
AJV (17:23):
And I think if I had learned that earlier, maybe I wouldn’t have been so neurotic and paranoid over stuff because also part of it is like those steps, most of them early on in my career, it’s like this drug, you’re like, oh yes, I got an offer from this place and you’re moving up and that’s the traditional measure of success. But there are definitely moves in there where it was like, this, this didn’t feel like a move up. This actually felt like a failure, but it’s gotta set you up for the thing that you don’t know because you’re not in charge.
AJV (18:07):
Totally agree with that. And it’s like, the moment that we start just, it’s just that the, the challenge of comparison.
AJV (18:13):
Right. And it’s like even comparing our expectations to what other people have for us and somehow going well, that’s what everyone else has done. Right. And it’s like this internal battle. And so I’m curious, like throughout your journey, do you think that there was ever like a time in your kind of career path and even maybe it’s still today, it’s like, like, was there a moment when you were like, this is my big break? Like, is there like a moment where you’re like, okay, like this is what I’ve been waiting for. So I wanna know one, have you had that? What is it? And then what do you think led you to it?
LC (18:50):
That’s a great question. I think I along the way, well, so I should probably give context on, I was in Miami working, you know, following the Miami dolphins. And the other thing with that job is I, it was part-time when I took it.
LC (19:08):
So it actually felt like a bigger risk because I was leaving a TV station. That was the first station that I was a reporter at, but it was there was just something about it. Like I knew the plus side, if I could make it work, if I could really like work my hardest and turn it into the kind of role I would want it to be as much as I could, that I felt like the upside really outweighed the risk. And so I also had, I have like a circle, you know, of people that I’ll I’ll bounce off of. Right. And it seemed like, okay, this is pretty much a no brainer at this point, but I will say also the expense of that was relationships. There’s no question like it was, I was a disaster at dating, like because well, I, I actually had a really great long term relationship and, but I, I made the decision to follow the career and that impacted things in a horrible way.
LC (20:03):
And how could it not? Right. But like, that was just a lesson that I learned early on and it was like, so it’s funny cuz there, it also sometimes feels like there are so many different lives that I’ve lived
LC (20:52):
But for me, that Washington move because of the man that I went to work for, his name was George, Michael, and not the singer, but the, the sports broadcaster. And he had a show called the George Michael sports machine and in the nineties it was in the late eighties, it was legendary. It was honestly on before sports center and it definitely played a role in the way that ESPN came on the map and did things because he was showing people highlights before they could do ’em. Anyway, he was a legend in DC and he called me out of nowhere and he called me, I found out years later because he saw me when his son-in-law was watching racing coverage at his house with his daughter. Okay. And they, and I came on TV as a pit reporter and they needed to fill a role, the woman that they had had left.
LC (21:43):
And he liked my work, I guess, and, and was like, so he called me out of nowhere and it was awesome. It was an awesome, like compliment and a great opportunity. And you add to that, that it was an opportunity for me to go home. But I got so terrified because that was the first place that I had been in my career where all of a sudden things were going really well in Miami. And they were saying, Hey, stay here. This is what we’ll offer you to stay here. And it was this weird, like I found myself in this sort of like conflict of negotiation for the first time and I turned it down. I turned the job down and I think I know in my heart, part of the reason I turned it down is because at that time I looked at going home as a quasi.
LC (22:26):
I don’t wanna say failure, but like I, to me, I was on this role in this drug of like hopping every two years, where can I go? I’m thinking like, oh my God, could I ever make it to New York? Or could it be LA or could it be Chicago wherever? And I never saw the amazing opportunity to go home cuz it was a huge market, but there was something in my psyche that was like kind of worked with that thinking. And so I turned it down cuz I was like, I’m gonna, I wanna stay in Miami. I, I would like to do some morning TV. They were offering me a role to do that. And the second I turned that job down, the second I made the call saying, no, I knew I had made this horrible mistake. Like I knew there was. And that was for me the biggest eyeopening moment period in my career that helped me identify like something about myself.
LC (23:15):
Because up until then everyone would be like, well, what does your gut say? What does your gut say? And I’m like, I don’t know. That’s the problem. And my problem is I realized what I do is I will pull people until the person that I want, like until the person gives me the answer I want to hear. And that’s what I was doing. I was like going around and around and trying to get someone to say, go to DC. Like this is such a great opportunity. Go, go, go, don’t look back. But I feel like people, even in my circle like agents and whatever, they were like, mm, I don’t know. I’m not sure. So anyway, I’ve kind of gone off on a tangent, but that was a absolute big break for me because he brought me into that market and really just did it in such a way.
LC (23:58):
I had to go back on my decision to not go and call him and, and find out if the opportunity still existed. And I don’t re recommend that for anybody like my own dad told me not to do it. My dad was like, do not do that. That’s ridiculous. And I was like, and, and actually someone I worked with at the time in Miami was like this, you will, you will kill your career. If you do this, if you call him back and I couldn’t not try it, I could not not try it because I just knew. I was like, this is, that is where I need to be. And if there’s any way to be there, then I need to do it. So I sat at a car wash and I wrote down my conversation points on this napkin. And I called George and I think I got his voicemail and I left him this, what I thought was succinct, but probably like really long message and was like, I have made a mistake.
LC (24:48):
And if there is any chance that that opportunity is not filled, I would like to talk to you about it. And that was it. He called me back and he was really gruff. But at the end of the day, he was like, we’re gonna bring you up.
LC (25:47):
And the security guards there, like loved George because George would, he knew everything about them. Like he knew about their families. He treated every single person, the exact same. And, and he also did things behind the scenes that nobody ever knew. He did like just being a good person. So really long tangent,
AJV (26:04):
That may be the favorite part of my story. Like your story that I have heard is the fact that you said, I don’t care what it costs. I know I’ve made a mistake. I have to call this person back. And he went against everyone else advice and said, no, I feel it in my heart. Like I have to call him back.
LC (26:24):
It was so bad that, I mean, I literally remember that person, you know, a friend of mine looking at me and saying, this is, this is career suicide. And I knew that when my father was like, don’t do it.
LC (26:39):
Like I really put stock in what my parents say. And especially my dad cause he is in this industry, but I woke up the next morning after making a decision to stay there and listen, I love Miami. It’s my top three places to vacation. It was such a dream to live there. I love the people I worked with truly and the bosses and the crew I was with every day. But I was like, I just, I know with every fiber of my being that this is not what I’m supposed to be doing, but I knew also that if the ship had sailed and if I couldn’t get it back then I okay. But like I just really needed to try. And I had one person at the station who was feeling familiar with George, who actually I leaned on. And he was like, I think if you really want to open that door again, I think he will listen, but you have to know that he might not.
LC (27:30):
And you also might have to know that this is going to be very bad here, like meaning. And I do take that very seriously. Like that was not a professional move to go back. And to like, that was a painful conversation to have to go back to the news director and the general manager that really believed in me and say, I have made a mistake and I, you know, want to investigate,
AJV (27:53):
Oh my gosh, like, this is like, I think this is revolutionary for every single person who is listening, who makes choices for their own life out of fear of offending someone else. Yeah. I think this is hugely how many people are in the country right now in the United States, in a job, in a situation where they know they shouldn’t be there, but they don’t have the courage to do something that’s uncomfortable.
AJV (28:21):
Like that’s, that is the, that’s the era that we’re living in. It’s like, instead of having a difficult conversation, we’d rather make ourselves miserable or live and regret instead of going for what could be a life changing experience.
LC (28:37):
Yeah. You know, and to that point, I think it’s interesting because I do think some of the younger professionals are catching on quicker to that because, and I, I don’t know. Maybe you can lend your thoughts to this, but like my husband and I will talk about this sometimes because we are sort of, you know, coming up in the traditional old school era of, of this. Right. But some of the younger professionals who are like coming up as entry level, or they’re maybe a step above that, I do find that they’re not afraid to talk a lot more about what they need in terms of mental health.
LC (29:15):
Right. In mental health, in that aspect. I think that’s hugely important. But I also, I do give kudos to them because things, some things that I see people doing now I would never do. Cause I would’ve never had the guts to say, wait, I they’re, they’re asking for a day off because X, Y, Z you know, I think to a fault I would not have done that. Right. But yeah, you know, that, that decision, I think if it didn’t have the home factor of it also, it would’ve probably been a, a, I don’t know how it would’ve turned out. I think that definitely was a big piece of it. Because it ended up that that was just such a wonderful experience, you know, but it was definitely a growth,
LC (30:05):
I was people off, like to get to the place where I, I, like, I basically had to decide for myself, is it gonna feel better at the end? What I’m weighing this PO like potential on, is that possibly better than what I know I’m about to do by making a slew of people really mad and also about your business, about the reputation. I mean, that, that matters. And so I just think that that is really important to listen to, like, and I guess for people that are in a similar state, it’s like, is there something gnawing at you that you do realize is it’s a gut feeling or it’s just a feeling of taking a chance. Like sometimes also, I don’t know if you ever felt this way, Jay, but it’s like, I’m so grateful for my, for being so naive in certain circumstances early on and now, but like there are rooms I walked into sometimes and I’m like, just thank God that I didn’t take an extra moment
LC (31:10):
And like, I just feel like there’s so many ways that I sort of protected myself by just not realizing the gravity of something. I don’t know it’s at all.
AJV (31:21):
I think that, I think there’s a lot of weight in that. I remember we started our first business in a 2005. And for even listening at the peak of 2005 was really like, this is the heart of the recession. And here we are, these, you know, four naive, specifically three of us. I was 22 when we started our first venture, it was fresh outta college and was like, they can do it. I can do it type of mentality. And our ignorance, our naive to you was the number one thing that helped us move forward because we did not know what a good market looked like. This was just the market. This is just how you did business.
AJV (32:00):
It wasn’t until years later that we realized, oh, wow, that was like serious. But we were so dumb, young and naive that the gravity of the situation was so far over our head that we didn’t even understand it to our benefit, to our benefit. So OK. You brought up two things and I know I’m watching the clock be sensitive to your time, but you brought up two things that I wanna touch on. And you mentioned reputation mm-hmm
AJV (32:52):
I’m just like, I wanna know, like, what do you think are keys to building, you know, this, you know, rock solid reputation where even in the midst of decisions like this, and you’re people off your reputation stands because people know that, you know, you do what you say you’re gonna do, and you do it with kindness, but you do it with confidence and clarity.
LC (33:13):
Thank you. I think that you know, using that, that decision as an example, I didn’t have much other than being apologetic and explaining myself truth and honesty for the people that I was saying, Hey, there’s been a change. Here’s what I’m going to do. Right. I had to take it. I just had to suck it up and take what they said. And, you know, I knew that there was a great chance that they meant it when they actually said we would never hire you again.
LC (33:45):
I mean, that was true. Right. That’s what, what, and I, I understood, but I had sort of braced myself and I felt that like, I felt very badly about it. It wasn’t at all. Like, I felt like, well, here I go. I’m okay. It’s it like, that really kind of sucked. But like I said, I had already made up my mind that I’m going to, I’m going to push for this and I just have to be ready for what comes and then go. I think once I took that step and went to the station in Washington, it was all about me just feeling like I really had to start from the ground up in terms of everything that I was soaking in, everything I was being taught, the role I was gonna do, you know, I had confidence that I knew at that point then, like I was getting better at being on air because that’s a whole different thing.
LC (34:29):
Like when you’re in your first on air jobs, the first time I went live on TV, they turned on the red light and I like, nothing came out. You know what I mean? Like I was in a Christmas tree farm and I’m like, oh, this is, this is when I talk
LC (35:11):
Like I am going to teach you basically like my ways. You’re going to understand why, what we do, where we work is super successful. And like, and so, and I loved that and I was ready to soak that up. So I kind of went into that and was like, just, I wanna be a student. I wanna learn, you know, not like, I didn’t know anything, but I definitely had that kind of approach. So I think being open to those new experiences and again, just being a good person, but also, you know, in the nature of what my business is, a lot of businesses is it’s, you almost become like a family with the people that you’re working with. And that’s really important and truly like caring about those people matter. So that was something I definitely had mistakes. I mean, there was one time I remember I had voiced a story that I did on a baseball player, one of the Washington nationals players.
LC (36:08):
And I tracked my voice, which means that I laid my voice down over the story that people are gonna watch on TV. And I did it. And George was probably out doing like the five o’clock news while I was recording or something, five o’clock sports. And he heard what I had put down on tape. And I was halfway home to my parents’ house going to have dinner. Cause they had invited me to dinner this one night and he called and he was like, Zac, this is garbage. Get back here. So I had to turn my little Honda civic around and go back and track it. Like, I don’t think I ever made it to my parents’ house for dinner that night. But the reputation that was, that was how I had, I sort of had a new opportunity right away to build it, but it mattered how I performed.
LC (36:50):
And also it mattered because of the caliber of people that George Michael was like his group of people in the market and the people that were his sources, they were the coaches of the teams, the general managers. And so I had to really listen and learn how to carry myself and the way that was sort of to his professional standards, which is, was a great standard. Right. Wow. But so that, that was the immediate and I think long term after that is when I went to ESPN and from then on, it’s sort of like a different set of just different experiences and lessons that I’ve learned, but they all circle around that same thing. It all comes back to the way you treat people. I do think the competition grows. I had never seen competition. Like I saw at ESPN when I got there and for a large part of it was because also I wasn’t used to working in sports with other women so much, like you’re, you’re always working around other women who are at other stations and that’s awesome cuz you’re like, you become this like group of women that you see each other at a basketball game.
LC (37:55):
And you’re like, oh, Hey, you know, channel four, channel nine, channel seven. But at ESPN it was the first time that everyone has a role. And there are like so many people left over that also want those roles. And it’s like, EV you know, it was a great experience in terms of like the people I worked with and I loved the work. I loved the work. But like everyone found out what their schedule was through the same computer system. And you had to go at the same time and look, so there’s a level of competition that doesn’t exist other places because it’s this constant, okay. What, what am I on? What am I doing?
LC (38:33):
What is you know, so it was just a different beast. So I don’t know, but that, but definitely something that shaped. Yeah.
AJV (38:42):
Well, I’d say the thing that I wrote down, the thing that I captured that I think is really applicable universally is really coming with a student’s heart.
AJV (38:52):
Right. I think that learning mindset of, yeah. Yeah. I, it’s not that you don’t know anything, but you also realize you don’t know everything. I think that’s a really big deal of staying humble and going, like, no matter where I go, there’s more to learn. And I just, you know, I just think about like, even when, where, you know, recruiting new team members, it’s like, you know, it’s not only is it a core value, but it’s like personal growth is a requirement here. And it’s like for the person who thinks there’s nothing left to learn, it’s like, well then there’s just nothing left for you to learn here. So, but it’s like the moment that we have that mindset of I’ve got it all figured out is the moment where it’s like, that’s a slippery slope. So just even staying in this, like what can I learn from this situation?
AJV (39:36):
What can I learn from this person? What can I learn from this job? I think is really important for us all to go. There’s always going to be something else to learn no matter what it is, like every stage of life. And so, okay. So here’s the other question I have for you. And I wrote this down because I think this is a huge thing that everyone struggles with. And we live in this world of video. Like video is everywhere. It’s in emails, it’s on social it’s it’s, every algorithm is waited to video. And there’s simultaneously this huge fear of being on video. And, you know, it’s like to what you said, it’s like that red light goes on and all of a sudden, all of your personality goes out the door. It’s like, who are you? And where did you go?
AJV (40:20):
Right. I am, what are some best practices? Like what should people learn to do to be better on video? Like what should people be doing other than clearly doing it, but how do you, how do you actually get better? How do you be yourself on camera?
LC (40:37):
Well, okay. I’ve got one piece of advice that I, I learned when I was at CNN. I think it was the anchor, Darren Kagan. I remember where I was sitting when she told me this trick of the trade and I wasn’t even on camera then, but I was just picking her brain, like, what are you? You know, what, what are things to learn? And and I really do think that this applies to anybody who’s, you don’t have to be a reporter. You can be doing videos or whatever it is, but her thing, this did apply to a live shot.
AJV (41:05):
Okay. So in news, if I was doing a report taking you back to like the Christmas tree farm, right? Never memorize everything you wanna say like that. So here here’s what, and I still do this. Right? Cause it just made so much sense. She said, take what you’re trying to say. Okay. So we can say for our purposes, AJ, that it’s like a report that I’m trying to give, or maybe I’m trying to just shoot a video at my house of like how I cook orzo pasta salad with my kids. Right. Or think about what the three and just because rule of threes is pretty great for everything, but like think of three things that you’re trying to say, three things that are like the nuggets. I also just had a conversation with a girlfriend of mine where we were talking about simple something similar, cuz she’s launching a book and she was saying, I’m having a hard time talking or I wanna know better ways to talk when people are asking me about like the real nuggets, I’ve got so many I wanna pull from, but I get lost with the traffic of just trying to talk straight.
LC (42:03):
And I said, think of them like peppermint pets. That’s my favorite candy. Okay. So think of it. Like the things that you’re most excited to share are the little minty center. Okay. And you’re putting this chocolate coating on the outside of them. So what you’re doing is you’re picking three things like today, I’m doing a video about why goldfish cheddar are my favorite things on the planet. Okay. So the first thing I wanna talk about is the bag, because it’s so easy to open. The second thing I wanna talk about is the art on the front because I love art and anyone that is an artist should want these. And the third thing is the fact that it’s like a cheddar burst, right? Like in your mouth. So those are the three things that I would have in my mind. Highlighted. Maybe you take a post-it and you just write those three words on your post-it and the words only are bag to open, you know artwork and then cheddar pop.
LC (42:54):
Okay. So you are never memorizing the words that you’ve written out in sentences, but what you’re memorizing are the, like the points it’s like the passion points of what you wanna talk about because all like this day and age too, people really just wanna see people who are real and whether you’re doing a news report or you’re talking about a sports, you know, some competition that’s a little different because you’ve gotta follow, you’ve gotta get certain things out like the Xs and O’s or the, the details of whatever event you’re covering. But if you’re giving just a video or you’re talking to people or you’re doing a seminar, that is a really great way, I think, to build a strategy for just being conversational. And even if you struggle with being conversational, once a light goes on, you’re going to be 10 times more conversational, truly just sharing with me why you’re excited about opening this bag versus the bag on the top is very easy to open because there’s no way you’re gonna remember all those words.
LC (43:49):
So I, and I learned that too, the hard way after that my friend shared that advice. There were times I would go on the field and I would like write out my whole script of what I wanted to say, but I’ve had it happen definitely more than like 10 times where if you misspeak or you like skip a word, then you forget all the rest of it. So it’s sort of like a protection for that too. And I think the more conversational, the better, that was a really well, I love that. I love that of just like you should be able to fit your entire video script on a post-it note. Right. Because you should know the content so well that you’re just, and that also that exercise helps you speak it from what you know, and that in itself is being your most authentic about what you’re talking about.
LC (44:36):
And some stuff don’t get me wrong. Like if you’re doing a news report and you’re talking about an oil spill accident, right. You can’t, you’re not gonna go. Yeah. Right. But you can still do that. And then, I mean, to get like in the weeds with the newsy side of it, those facts that you do have written down are things that if you’re looking down on your paper, that’s okay. Just like any videos you’re doing. If there are times where you look down, because you’re trying to get stats out about someone you’re interviewing, that’s fine. Like you don’t have to memorize all the other stuff. You know,
AJV (45:06):
I love that. It’s like the more conversational, the more authentic, the more relatable it’s gonna be, but honestly the less pressure that you put on yourself. Yeah. And the more like I do think one of the things that I did when you mentioned at the beginning of this, how I made a note of this, because when you mentioned the Gracie award, that that to me was like such, just like an awesome unexpected honor, because first of all, that was like Gracie.
LC (45:37):
The awards are for it’s women who do things that are like influential news or otherwise, whatever. And I remember when a colleague of mine, when I was at ESPN won one of those awards and I was like, oh my God, that is the coolest thing. And I don’t even know, like, I forget what hers was for, but this was, that was for a conversation I had with my mother-in-law on Instagram. Okay. So it was when George Floyd happened and I felt really helpless and my husband’s African American, I felt like I, I didn’t know what I could do to like, just anything to make an impact. And I just wanted to be able to do something. And my mother-in-law has so many great stories and so many really important lessons and things to learn from. And so we were talking and I said, Hey, would you, how would you feel about doing a conversation about race with me?
LC (46:31):
And she was really open to it and we did it and it was shocking. I didn’t like, I never expected that that would happen, but it was so shocking the engagement of it, because I think people that were watching were like, whoa, I’m asking like really dumb questions. So I felt like I should really know the answer to, and I should have paid attention to a long time ago, but her answers were just, some of them were jaw dropping. So anyway, that led to them asking us to do a radio hour on that conversation. And I, she joined me, my mom joined me. I had a psychiatrist join us. And another friend of mine, who’s an author. Who’s anyway, who’s biracial. It was, but that, so that meant so much to me because that was something that was completely just super out of response to something that had happened.
LC (47:16):
And we weren’t trying to get engagement. I was just like, how can I have a conversation? So I think there’s a lot of that to be had now. And so I think like what we’re just talking about with practices of on video, anyone can do that kind of thing, you know? Right. That proved that to me because I was like, wait a minute, if we’re sitting here, someone’s saying that that was impactful to do that. Like, wow, look at the power of social media, you know?
AJV (47:42):
Wow. And let’s look at the power of real life conversation. Yeah, yeah. Is scripted. This is not planned out. There’s not high video production. We don’t have a film crew with graphics and bumpers and overlays and all this fluff that people get overly consumed with. And it’s like, no, have a real conversation about real questions and real struggles that real people are going through.
AJV (48:11):
And it’s amazing that that’s, that is what would take off and get so much engagement and get you to the place that people recognizing this. And it’s like, I mean, don’t, you sometimes think it’s like, think about how much you’ve done in a really planned formal professional setting versus the things that you do that are just from a place of deep desire of like, I just wanna do something. I just, I wanna help. I don’t, I don’t wanna sit in the background. I feel called to this and do that is what goes, quote, unquote viral. That’s what people want. It’s you said the word it’s like, I truly, the word relatable, I think is everything I really do. I mean, I’ve, I feel that way in sports. I think it’s what, it’s what creates fans around a team or a player, because there’s something that jogs, you know, that makes them feel like, oh, that person has something that’s speaking to me, but I think you’re exactly right.
LC (49:12):
It’s like the the calling feeling a calling to do it and then just taking the step to do it. And, and you know, what else, I guess, in a way it’s like using your, all you had to do to do it is using your God given ability. Right. Or like the ability that you’ve honed a bit or whatever. But I just, yeah, like, so that was really, that was a very eye opening thing for me, because I was like, here I am like, I, 10 years ago I saw that happen. I, and I actually was like, oh, I wish I could do that someday. And like earn one of those award. Like that was so weird that that would be what it is. So there, there is a definite lesson in that I think there’s immense power and you know, for us and anyone who’s listening of going like at the end of the day.
AJV (50:01):
And it’s like, we can hear it a hundred different ways. And I love hearing this perspective and this angle from you today. And at the same time, it’s like, we hear it all the time. It’s like be you right. The more relatable, the more personal will, the more authentic you are, the more people will love you or not, but that’s okay. That’s not your audience. Yeah. But like when we try to be somebody else or try to be what somebody else tells us to be, it is never gonna work in our favor. It’s like, cuz you’re not, you’re not being you like that to me is like, we just can’t hear that enough because there’s such a fear of, wow, I don’t wanna offend anybody or don’t wanna ruffle any feathers or what if I look dumb? What if I sound dumb? You know? And we don’t do it.
LC (50:51):
Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I agree.
AJV (50:56):
I think that’s so, so good. Okay. All right. I have two quick, rapid fire questions for you. Yeah. This is such a great interview. Thank you so much. Like I love as we talk for another hour and I would be like, I know I have five more questions. I have five more questions, but I really, I’m only gonna give you two. I wrote this down in the very beginning. And this is just to help our audience get to know you. And one of my main things is I care much more about who you are than what you’ve done. And so I’m just so curious when you were this little kid sitting in front of MTV going, this is the dream. Like what was your favorite music video? So what’s your favorite music video of all time?
LC (51:32):
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, so all time I would have this, this is like a measurement of a swath of time. It was the cars you might think foolish, you know, that song. Yeah. The cars because that was that symbolized. What MTV could do. They were flying the fly. Remember the Rick, what, what’s his last name? The lead singer of the cars. His face was on the fly. Do you remember that video? It was sort of video. Yeah, it was kind of like animated. There was that one and then there was the 99 red balloons, but this song that it was like, every time it came on, I was like, yes, it was sister Christian. Do you remember that song? I can’t remember that song, Christian. Oh, the time has come. And then also white snake here I go again on my own. That’s awesome. So yeah, so good. Like that’s what hooked me, but I mean, you know, as the decades went on and I continued to watch videos, I had plenty of other examples, but those were like my beginning ones that I was like, this, this is awesome. I love that. That’s so funny.
AJV (52:42):
Last question. What do you want people to know about you that no one ever asks you? Oh, that’s a really hard one. That is a hard one. Other than you love goldfish. What’d you say the gold that you love goldfish.
LC (53:01):
Maybe that I think everything in life relates back to fishing and I love fishing. Fishing is one of my favorite things to do. And it’s I think it’s because growing up, especially when I was a kid, we would always go surf fishing at the beach when my family would go to the beach in the summer. And it was something that I would get up and do with my dad. He would wake me up and I’d always be like, oh, because it was like 5 45, cuz it’d go really early. But I loved it so much and that I definitely am like a morning person and I love that time when no one’s awake. And if you’re out in nature, like if you are at the beach and you’re fishing, that’s great. I also feel the same kind of way when I’m in a race track and it’s early morning, there’s just something really special about the way that a garage or even like a barn, if it’s horse racing, like the seeing things come to life.
LC (54:01):
So I think that’s something I really just love that I love fishing and I love the act of when you feel like you have something on the line, there’s not much more, you know, in life like that. I think that’s a really relatable thing. Like you’re feeling the tug of catching something. And maybe that’s why I was a reporter and I got adrenaline junkie by like the boob every two years. You’re like catching a new fish. I don’t know. But but I really, really, really love that. I love it. Well, this is like the beginning of like this future life of you being like the spokesperson for like bass pro shop or something. Well, you know, I have thought like there have been a lot of fishing shows out there, but I have thought maybe there’s a type of fishing show that people haven’t seen that you know, maybe that’s in my future. I don’t know. That’s never, never, that’s probably not like the pro angler, but I do really enjoy just especially when you’ve got a good old fashioned Bober and you watch that thing go under the water. That’s pretty satisfying. That’s awesome.
AJV (55:07):
These, this is so much fun. Thank you. So for coming on and if people wanna learn more about you and if they wanna connect with you or follow you on social media, like where should they go?
LC (55:17):
I think the best place is my Instagram is Lindsay CZI, so I don’t, it’s not Zac full it’s Lindsay CZI. And that’s probably a great place to start. And so I just, I do I do a joke of the day that I started during quarantine with my kids. So if anybody has any jokes, suggestions, I’m all at ears also because we’re still keeping that going.
AJV (55:38):
So, oh, we got silly dad jokes for days over here. I’m gonna yay. Y’all, I’ll put all of these details in the show notes. I’ll put all of Lindsay’s handles in there. Go follow her, give her some good jokes. And Lindsay, thank you so much for being here. Love this so much. Wait again, me too. You’re the best. Thank you. So stay tuned for the episode and we’ll next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 285: How to Double Your Business In 12 Months | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:54):
I love it. Absolutely love, love, love when we have AJ on this show as, as a guest and not just a host, she’s brilliant. And I like, I’m not just saying that cuz she’s my wife and she’s my business partner. Like she is absolutely phenomenal. At selling, I mean’s several things, but specifically at selling, you know, like she is a one woman wrecking crew and I’m talking about she, she has had multiple years where she’s generated over a million dollars in revenue by herself as a one person individual. And so getting a chance to interview her and talk about how do you double your business in the next 12 months? Fantastic conversation worthwhile conversation. Of course, if you didn’t listen to it, you kinda wanna go back and listen to it. I’m gonna share with you what my highlights are and take away.
RV (01:47):
And you know, I, I hope this isn’t weird for you. Like I love learning from her, like, you know, just as a friend and a spouse, but as a professional colleague, I really, really love learning from AJ. And I find her philosophies very like original and refreshing and different. She has a very different take on the world. So I, I wanna share what my three top takeaways were from listening to her and just sort of like being around this conversation. And obviously she, the reason that she, one of the reasons she came on the show is cuz she wanted to let you know that she put together a completely free training about how to double your business in the next 12 months. And if you go to double dot brand builders, group.com, double dot brand builders, group.com, you can watch the whole free training.
RV (02:37):
Like it’s a whole presentation and everything. And it’s, I it’s, it’s gonna be it’s phenomenal. So the, with that, going back to what we talked about in the interview, the first thing that came up, which to me really is this necessary switch that has to happen. If you are gonna grow your business, like if, if you’re be a successful entrepreneur, salesperson, personal brand, like insert whatever term you want there, mission driven messenger. You have to reach this point where you decide that you are not ashamed of what you do and that it’s also not humble to not tell people about what you do. Like there is a switch that has to flip in your brain and, and for as, as much time as the switch is flipped to, I don’t wanna intrude on people. I don’t wanna push on people. I don’t wanna have to interrupt people to tell them about what I’m doing.
RV (03:43):
Like as long as that switch is flipped off, like flipped in that direction, you’re gonna struggle your whole life. Like the rest of time. Like until we flip this switch, you are going, you’re going to be broke. Like you’re gonna have a hard time because you’re gonna always be shy and embarrassed and timid about telling people what it is that you do. You can’t be timid about telling people what you do and have people find out about it, right? Like you have to be bold. You have to be powerful. You have to be assertive. You have to be commanding. You have to be convicted. Right. And it’s, and it’s not humble to, to not tell people what you do like humility is to me is, is, you know, I, I actually did an Instagram reel about this. That like the difference, like the opposite of humility is not self-confidence the opposite of humility is pride, right?
RV (04:46):
Self-Confidence is being convicted in, in, in what you do. Pride isn’t is about who you do it for, right? So this isn’t about you going, oh, I need to tell the world how great I am. That’s pride. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about being convicted to tell the world how great the thing is that you have can be for them, right? It’s not about, it’s the difference between pride and confidence is who you do it for self-confidence is going. I am a capable person of helping you. It is in service of you and in when I’m operating in service of you, that gives me the permission, the confidence the, the openness, the power, the authority, the, the, the, the white space, the invitation to kind of boldly proclaim and say, Hey, I’ve got this thing that will change your life.
RV (05:42):
It’s about you. Pride is when it’s about me. Let me tell you how great I am. Let me, you know, you, you should know me, look at what I’ve done. Look at who I am. That’s different than confidence, which is, let me boldly tell you about this thing that I have for you, how it can help you, what we have put together for how it serves you. And, and until you flip that switch, you’re gonna struggle. You’re gonna be broke. It’s gonna be hard. You’re gonna have a hard time finding customers. You’re gonna your marketing campaigns. Aren’t gonna work. You’re not gonna sell your sales people. Aren’t gonna sell. Why? Because selling marketing enrollment registrations are a matter of conviction.
RV (06:27):
There is this transference of going and listening to somebody who believes what they’re saying and not just believes what they’re saying. They believe that what they are telling me about is good for me. It’s not about them, right? They’re just the messenger. But the message is for me, the message can help my life. And that is you have to get to that point. I mean, think about it. You, you can’t shy your way into the world, knowing about you. You can’t timid your way into changing lives. You, you can’t soft pedal your way into making a difference in the world. You can’t, there’s too much noise. There’s too much competition for attention. There’s, there’s too much competition in general. There’s too much negativity. There’s, there’s too much misinformation. If you’re gonna win, it has to be bold and assertive. And, and DEC declarative, like I am here with something that can help you not look at me.
RV (07:30):
It’s look at this. It’s not who am I? It’s what do I have for you? But, but you have to make that switch. You have to turn that corner. Otherwise you are gonna be the world’s best kept secret. I mean, you’re not gonna be the world’s best kept secret. You’re just gonna be a secret. You’re just not gonna be known. And, and this, I think is one of the greatest struggles that mission driven messengers have. And why do we know this? Why do we, why do we have so much clarity about this? Because this is us. This is what we struggle with, right? For us, it’s a spiritual thing as Christians, we’re going, man, you know, the meek shall inherent the earth. So how do I, how do I stand up and go listen to my podcast and, and, and, and tell the world like, you should listen to this podcast.
RV (08:16):
How do we, how do we go? You know, like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, harder for a rich person to, or a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to inherit the kingdom of heaven. How do we reconcile that? Because we go those messages, that construct, that concept is not about being broke and, and hidden and shy. And that’s not what it’s about. That’s about positioning. What’s the position in your life. And where do you stand in the pecking order of the things that matter, right? And, and so if you’re a Christian, right? The what, what we’ve realized and have come to understand from studying this really understanding scripture and sort of the heart of this is going, it’s not about how much money you have. It’s about what position money has in your life, right? If money is number one in your life, that’s a problem.
RV (09:11):
That’s, that’s what Jesus is talking about. He’s saying, I want the number one spot. I wanna be first. God should be first. And that’s what he’s saying. You can be rich and God can still be first. You can be poor and money can still be first. And God can be second, right? Even if you’re poor and God is, but money is first, or your pride is first, and God is beneath that. That’s the problem that’s going on there, right? It actually is completely separate of the quantity of money you have. It’s about the position of that item in your life. This is a positioning issue. This is the positioning in your own mind. Like, and, and you, you, until you flip the switch, you’re gonna be living with this struggle of like, oh, I’m self promotional or I’m I’m, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m arrogant.
RV (10:04):
I’m egotistical. Yes you are. If the mission is about you and as, and, and about elevating you and making people worship you and idolize you. Yes, that’s wrong. But if the mission is to push the message out to the world, if the mission is to solve a problem for the world, if the mission is to help other people, if it’s to elevate them, then you can do that and be bold. You have to be bold and powerful and assertive and loud and consistent and dominating because you won’t get heard. Otherwise, like you gotta, you gotta break through, like you can’t sit in a corner somewhere in a room and think the world’s gonna find out about the solution that you have, that you’re not gonna impact lives. You’re not gonna help people. So it’s rooted in service. It’s not rooted in pride. It’s rooted in service.
RV (11:00):
It’s not rooted in pride, but until you click until this clicks, you’re gonna struggle your whole life. Your business is always gonna struggle because you’re gonna be at odds. You are gonna be subconsciously self sabotaging because on the one hand, you want to grow your business. But on the other hand, you, you feel like there’s this spiritual battle of going, oh, I have to remain meek and humble. And until you reconcile this, you’re gonna struggle. And the way you reconcile it is realizing that they’re not remotely connected at all. I mean, even Jesus, like the great commission is go tell the world, proclaim it. Boldly. Not about how great we are, but how about how great he is about what he has done about who God is, but go boldly into the world. Why can we go boldly into the whole world? Because it’s not about us.
RV (11:56):
It’s about this cure. It’s about this message. And it’s about another person. It’s about him, right? That’s why you can do it. If you are at the center, that is a conflict. But if your expertise is at the center, if your service is at the center, if the product is at the center, if service is at the center, then you can proclaim it wildly and boldly and loudly and confidently without doing it. Pridefully you have to get this. If you’re ever going to grow your business, if you’re ever going to grow your reach, if you’re ever gonna break free of, of being financially poor, like this is, is a really, really big issue. So it was huge. Right? And so just hearing AJ talk about it and give her her take on it. Super powerful for me. The second thing is something we’ve been talking about a ton like AJ and I have been talking about this.
RV (12:56):
We’ve been talking about it with our own team internally. We’re getting, you know, we’re, we’re trying to like make sure our members, our, our messengers and our membership program like that, they’re all super clear on this. And, you know, wanna make sure that you’re in, in the loop on this too, which is this huge mistake that like the entire world has somehow been tricked, like misled. Like it’s like the entire world believes something that is so ineffective. It’s unbelievable. And here’s, here’s what it is. We have all been misled to think that the key to glory is selling to strangers on the internet.
RV (13:57):
Like no, the path to riches is not through strangers on the internet. The path to riches is through trust. And the relationships of the people who know you in real life, the people who know your character, the people who love you, the who believe in you, the people who have been there in your darkest moments, the people who you’ve delivered for, it’s not millions of strangers on the internet. It’s a few dozen people who know you in real life. Why? Because it’s about trust. Now, can you make money from the internet and social media? Of course you can, but only after you’ve built trust, right? And it takes a long time to build trust. When people only watch, you know, three seconds of your videos at a time, they gotta watch a lot of three second videos before they actually really trust you. So it takes a long time.
RV (14:52):
The, the, your next great customer is not a stranger on the internet. Your next best customer is much more likely to be in your cell phone or in the cell phone of your current customer’s cell phones. It’s the people that, you know, like the people who know the people, you know, it’s leveraging the, the relationships. This is reputation, right? When you, when you hear personal branding, please don’t think social media and logos and colors and websites and YouTube channels and podcasts think reputation, right? That is what our company is about. The digitization of reputation. Like, yes, it is digitizing it. Yes, there are these modern things that we’re doing, but the core is not the digital part. The core is the reputation part, the character part, the, the, the personality, the integrity part. And so when it comes to selling and doubling your business in the next 12 months, it’s not going, Ooh, there’s some secret hack that I’m gonna learn on social media.
RV (15:57):
That’s somehow gonna introduce me to millions of people who are all then gonna buy from me, even if it does introduce you to millions of people, which can happen. And that’s a great thing and good things come from that. They’re not gonna all suddenly buy from you. You have to develop trust. And that takes a long time, a long time, right? Like a lot of people who buy from us, we, we had a, a great friend sign up this, this guy’s really cool guy. His name’s Ray Higg. And he joined our program yesterday and he’s got, he’s really huge in the network marketing space. And he’s got this program called rank makers. And, and he’s a great guy like and you know, him and his wife, Jess, like they have business together, but like, he really helps a lot of people that are in network marketing.
RV (16:36):
Like this is what he’s done his whole life. We’ve gone back and forth for a few years. And, and he just now became a customer because it was just like, it just takes time. Right? And so we, instead of believing this sort of lie that, oh, if every, if you do it, all right, people are just gonna flock to you and buy suddenly over the, you know, strangers from the internet instead it’s relationships, it’s reputation, it’s character. And so work through your relationships, work through the people who already know you get referrals from those folks. Right? So obviously our, our pressure free persuasion training is one of the reasons why we’re talking about this now because of the exit of our former company, there was, there was a window of time where we were bound by a non-compete. And so we couldn’t teach sales training.
RV (17:22):
And so we, we, we didn’t for a few years, but now we’re free of that. And, and we created this, I mean, life changing sales curriculum pressure free persuasion, which, you know, if you’re a member, you’ve got access to it. And it’s just like, you know, we teach this stuff, but the psych, the tactical part, but the psychological part is right here is going quit thinking the riches are gonna come from strangers on the internet. And instead start working through in a deeper way through the relationships you already have and asked to be introduced to people that’s and specifically getting referrals from your customers. Like if you’re not getting referrals from your customers, even if you only have one customer or five, like if you’re not getting referrals from your customers, you’re missing on the best, easiest, lowest hanging fruit for more revenue in your business.
RV (18:12):
And just ask yourself this question on a scale of one to 10, how good of a job are you at getting referrals from your current customers? My guess is it might be zero.
RV (19:08):
And so at scale, all this stuff works. That’s why we do it. That’s why we teach it. But it’s over the long term in the short term, do it through the relationships of the people you have, unless you have some massive platform, right. Then that’s, that’s the reason you have it is cuz you’ve been doing it for a while and you do have trust and there’s ways to monetize it. But for most of us, most of you, it’s gonna happen through the relationships that you have with real people in real life. And then the third thing, you know, third, big takeaway here. And, and I got a fourth bonus one, but the, the third one is when AJ was saying, just give away so much value that people feel compelled almost that they have to pay you for something. And that is such a rare philosophy.
RV (19:59):
I think like, I don’t hear people talk about it, but that is how AJ and I have built our life, our businesses. It’s like, we give it away. Like we give it away. We, it, it’s a, it’s a tremendous amount of time and pain and money to just give away so much of this stuff. But like, you know, a great example here recently is, is Tom and Lisa BIU. If you don’t know them, they’re awesome. They, they have a they’re superpower couple. They sold a company for a billion dollars. It was called quest nutrition. They were co-founders and now they have a, a huge podcast called impact theory. Well, Lisa had a book come out called radical confidence. We didn’t know them very well. I had known Tom a little bit. And so, you know, she’s doing her book launch and I said, Hey, did you think about this?
RV (20:42):
And are you guys doing this? And did you know this? And have you tried this and, and have you met this person and that person and this person, right. And just like, you know, we don’t charge for PR. PR is something we do for free for all of our, just our friends and clients. That’s just how we add value to the community is introducing people all the time. Right? So like the more we get to know somebody personally, the more likely we are to ntroduce them. So we’re introducing them, you know, just making connections, but we share tips with everybody, right? Like we’re sharing the same tips with them that we have, you know, somewhere in, in the archive here of all these podcasts, like, and we’re just going, Hey, are you doing this? And what happened was they literally said this. I mean, this is the craziest thing.
RV (21:19):
This is a true story. It happened recently. Right? And they’re really big deal. I mean, they’ve got millions of followers. That’s one of the biggest personal development podcasts in the world and an amazing reputation. And they’re tremendous people like super smart, super successful, wealthy, sharp, inspiring, tons of people, all of these things. And basically what they said was they said, Rory, this has reached a point where we feel guilty. Like about how much value you, we have gotten from you. You’ve been so helpful to us in, in, in our book launch Lisa’s Lisa’s book launch the book is called radical confidence. Right. And they were like, we have to hire you.
RV (22:12):
The intention was just to be helpful, but it was amazing how good people, like really good people actually do start to feel a little awkward when you’ve given so much. Right. And you’re because at some point it’s like, golly, like you’ve done so much for me. Like, what can I give back to you? Like, how can I help you? Like, oh my gosh, like you saved the day here. I, I, I want to repay the favor. I need to repay the favor. It’s like their law of reciprocity. It’s not a manipulative thing. It’s, it’s a, it’s an abundance thing. It’s a generosity thing. It’s a person of character thing going, gosh, you’ve done so much. You’ve done so much for me. Like, what can I do for you? How can I help you? I wanna be a part of this. And that’s what happens, you know, so good people that that’s what happens.
RV (22:57):
And so like, that’s our whole strategy. I mean, that’s our whole content marketing strategy, give away everything for free. Like we teach you everything we know. And so anyway, so they hired us, right? So they’re, they are brand builders, group clients, and we made a huge impact even officially after they hire us. Like, so with Lisa, we helped Lisa grow her book sales 33% in 10 days, right. Of everything that she had done in the launch, we helped her increase it 33% in a 10 day window. You know, and then, you know, she hit the USA today, national bestseller list. It’s amazing. Right. So now we have another client who’s a national bestseller and all of this happened. She’s so cool. Like I love follower. She’s super sharp and sassy. You know, she’s, she’s really, really cool. And all of a sudden we ended up with another client.
RV (23:47):
That’s a very recognizable client. We’ve had a huge, added, a huge amount of value to their life. And she’s a national bestselling author as she straight up legitimately would not have been. If, if it, if it weren’t for us, like, like that’s a really cool thing to go. All we were doing was just trying to help. And, and as much as helping them, we were also helping our network. Right. Because it helps a lot of our friends and a lot of our clients to be able to get to interview somebody like Lisa and get to build a relationship with her. Right. So it’s, it’s not even like, Hey, let’s help her and see if we can get in, it’s going, how can we just help? How can we add value? And it’s, if you just look, it’s another switch here. Like, if you can flip this switch, if you can go, if you can shift from going, what can I get from you?
RV (24:32):
What can, what can you do for me? And you can flip the switch to go, what can I do for you? How can I help you? It radically changes your life and it changes your business, right? Like people are coming to us going. I heard you guys are the best. And it’s like, all we’re doing is trying to help. Right. you know, our stuff is really good. Like our content is really good. Like, we, we, we do, you know, we know what we’re talking about, but there’s other people in the world who do it, but I think it’s, it’s people are drawn to that heart of generosity and anyone can do that. And here’s, and here’s one of the reasons why I think we do it. I hated selling so much. Right. Like I went door to door and felt like such a scam artist.
RV (25:17):
And, you know, I learned some, some really shady techniques along the way about, about sales. Like just some, some, some pretty shady stuff. And I was like, I just don’t wanna be that guy. I don’t care if I’m not the number one salesperson, I’m not gonna be that guy. Like, it’s like the, I, the amount of money you could pay me, isn’t worth a compromise of my own character. Right? Like, I’m not gonna compromise my character just to earn a commission. I’m not gonna compromise my reputation just to grow my revenue. And AJ’s the same way. And I think, you know, that’s one of the reasons we end up married is like, we have this apparently unusual philosophy and belief system that it’s like, no, no, no. Like I know, I know if I use that technique, I could sell more, but I would feel horrible and I couldn’t live with myself.
RV (26:11):
I don’t care that much about money. I don’t care that much about recognition. I’m not gonna do that. So what we defaulted to was just like, how can we give, how can we serve? How can we help? And she became this multimillion dollar producer, like in, in her early thirties. And, you know, it’s just by giving. So how can you do that? Like how can you adopt that posture of, and, and the more reluctant you are about selling, the more, I would say, embrace serving, embrace, giving away, sharing what, know, give it away for free, just go speak for free, put it out on social media, teach it for free. And just test me on this. I promise you, the money’s gonna show up. I promise, like you cannot lose when you do this. Like you cannot lose. And, and this story with Lisa was pretty crazy because it was like, she literally was like we have to pay you something like for them, they were like, we can’t sleep at night knowing how one sided this relationship has been.
RV (27:14):
Right. Like and so it was like, okay, well, I guess, you know, send us some money, but it was literally like, it didn’t really change anything. We were, we were just helping, you know I mean, I guess it did, it made us block more time on the calendar to show up and sort of be on their schedule. Right. Rather than just kind of operating when it was convenient. But do that go, how can I give away so much value that people would want to pay me and make that, make that your posture make that, make that your prayer make that your position in the marketplace make that your reputation and, and just, and just watch. So again, those are, those are the takeaways, love this story, you know, congratulations, Lisa USA today, national bestseller, radical confidence is the book, pick it up, you know, take a, take a look if you haven’t gotten it.
RV (28:02):
Really, really awesome. It’s, it’s endorsed by Jay Sheti and Mel Robbins and Dr. Nicole lap, like all these really modern day, you know, thought leaders, the thought leaders of future of our generation, like really, really cool. And then the other thing is go to, if you go to double dot brand builders, group.com, check out this, this full free training that AJ put together about how do you double your business in 12 months. And then, you know, that brings me to the fourth takeaway, which, you know, I wanna tell you about is we, it’s hard to build a personal brand. Like it’s, it’s hard to be an entrepreneur in general, right? Like you gotta do the marketing, you gotta do the sales, you gotta do the delivery, the customer service, the accounting, the HR, the legal, the strategy, the operations, like the finance, like it’s hard to be an entrepreneur.
RV (28:50):
And that’s one of the reasons why our heart is for so many entrepreneurs. And you know, anyone who builds a personal brand, then it’s like, yeah, you gotta learn, you know, content creation and presentation skills and social media and branding and color design and graphic design and, and, you know, paid traffic and all the things we teach podcasting, right? Like all of the things in our whole curriculum. And so it’s, it’s not easy to make money in the midst of all of that. You actually have to create content and you have to go, man. I started out just wanting to impact lives. I just wanted to help people. And now I have to do all this other stuff that like gets in the way between me impacting lives. Like I have to do all of these things in order to just get to impact lives and, and to be able to make any money, right?
RV (29:36):
Like you have to take care of all that stuff really, before you make money and you create content. And so one of the things that we realized and, you know, our, the feedback from our community’s been awesome is that our content is really, really good, really, really solid and really powerful. And so one thing we’ve never done, we’ve never done this in our career. We are just doing it now is we have started a content licensing program where you can actually you pay a fee it’s moderate, very moderate. You pay this fee. And then what’ll happen is you get a, you get trained on how to use our content to help people find their uniqueness, build their personal brand, established their position in the marketplace. All of these, you know, these things from our, from our flagship brand builders group curriculum, and we give you the content.
RV (30:29):
So you can then you know, like when you become, when most people become a client, we’re taking you through the content to apply it to your own life. This is a program that we have now launched called content licensing, where we are giving you permission to take our content and go out into the world and sell it. And you can make as much money as you want from teaching our content. And you get, you know, the legal authority and the, and the right to do it. And we actually, not only that we train you how to do it. So you, you’re paying just, just a, a very moderate licensing fee in order to be able to use our content and go tell it to the world. And, you know there we give you the tools, right? We give you PowerPoints, we give you you come through the training, we teach you how to teach it to other people.
RV (31:15):
And you get all of these resources that are assets to help you, you know, have this sort of off the shelf service that you can, you know, either, you know, do as a do as a business, or in most cases, just make it a part of your business. It’s specifically for like coaches and consultants. And if you’re interested in that, like go to license dot brand builders, group.com, license dot brand builders, group.com. And you can read about that and, and get more for more information if you want. And it’s just one more way. We’re trying to like help close the gap between where you’re at and money showing up in your bank account. Because it’s, it’s difficult and, you know, to practice what I preach here, the content is incredible. Like we have developed a systematic process to help people figure out who they should be, the rest of their life and what the calling is, what the unique calling is on their life and how they can turn that into a personal brand and to help them figure out what is their uncapable difference?
RV (32:19):
What is their uniqueness? What is their identity that only they can, the, the space that only they can occupy in the world and then teaching ’em how to make a bunch of money doing it. We, I mean, you know, has God inspired, like we believe this system was given to us, but like, it’s incredible. And we’ve now taken 600 people more than 600 people through the process, you know, and a lot of ’em are these really great clients that, that you hear of that we work with. So anyways, go to license dot brand builders, group.com. If you wanna read up about that and just switch on, right, switch on, be proud of what you, you do, be proud of how you can help, you know, don’t, don’t try to get, make people just, you know, worship you and idolize you and fall in love with you and tell them how great you are.
RV (33:08):
That’s pride self-confidence is telling people how awesome this tool is. This service, this technique, you know, that you have this solution to solving their problem, and you can do that boldly and daringly and almost provocatively and aggressively and powerfully and go out and tell the world, be an ambassador, right. Be an ambassador of the problem you solve and be an ambassador of the solution that you have that can actually transform lives, flip that switch. And I promise you’ll double your business. Like that is what makes it possible. Don’t flip that switch, and I promise it’s about impossible to double your business. So hopefully you’ve enjoyed this. Check out the full training with AJ at brain builders, group.com and keep coming back here week after week on the influential personal brand podcast
Ep 284: How to Double Your Business In 12 Months with AJ Vaden
RV (00:02):
Oh, we have a special edition today. Super special very uncommon format where you actually are going to get to hear from our CEO AJ Vaden. My co-founder my wife, of course, and she is actually going to be our guest. So obviously, usually either her or myself are leading the interview today. I get to play the role of interviewer. AJ is going to play the role of interviewee and our guests, because we’re gonna talk about something that is really, really important and really, really powerful, which is how to double your business in the next 12 months. AJ, as you know you probably know many of her credentials for being with brand builders group, but one thing you may not know about AJ is that she also is a million dollar producer. She is someone who spent personally produced over a million dollars a year in revenue by herself, many years in a row, both in as a in a speaking business, a consulting business, a coaching business. And so she just has a lot of experience growing businesses, coaching businesses, consulting, speaking. And that’s what we’re gonna talk about today. Specifically, she’s gonna share some tips on how to double your business in the next 12 months, AJ made and welcome to your own show. We’re glad to have you,
AJV (01:23):
RV (01:29):
So yeah. So talk to us just a little bit about, I mean, obviously most of the people listening here know about brand builders group, right. They know what we do. But tell us a little bit about your past like pre brandand builders group. What were some of the types of businesses that you built? How were you a top producer and, you know, just what were some of the different business models that you were involved in?
AJV (01:53):
Well, it’s not me. It’s not just me. It’s us. It was our I think most of you probably know that brand builders group is Roy and I second business together, but a little known fact, I’m not sure how many of you listening know this, that we were actually business partners before we fell in love and got married. And so we started as business partners and then broke the Cardinal role fell in love, got married. Luckily 15 years later, it’s it worked out, it worked out in our favor. But prior to brain builders group, you know, we spent the first 15 years of our professional lives building a coaching speaking consulting, training business, but it actually started as a seminar business. So in the first four years of our very first business we lived on the road full time lived in 14 cities and five years was moving pretty much every 16 weeks for the better part of four and a half years putting on large motivational sales conferences.
AJV (02:57):
And that naturally involve evolved into a one-on-one coaching business, which then involved into a consulting practice. We started a speakers bureau brew. It, it was very successful. And when we departed from that company and sold back our equity to our former partners we had over 200 coaches. It was well into the eight figures business. On the coaching side, we had a healthy, a seven figure consulting business, a healthy seven figure speaking business. And so there’s lots of different components of, of what we did, but it naturally evolved over time from large public seminars to one on one consult or one-on-one coaching to full service consulting. Did training as a part of that, and then also built a speakers bureau.
RV (03:44):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (04:36):
Yeah, well, it’s not just double your business. It’s really niche down to a really important sub segment of all the audiences we serve, but it’s one that’s really near and dear to my heart and it’s coaches, speakers, trainers, and consultants. And part of why that’s really important to me is I could still consider myself one of all those things. But that’s really where I started. It’s where I grew. It’s it’s challenging, it’s hard and it’s as everything is challenging and there’s pros and cons to any business out there. I know this business, this world inside and out, and as a part of brand builders group, a huge part of our community find themselves in one of these categories. Even if it’s not their full time right profession, but they do consulting, they do training, they do speaking, they do coaching, they do all these things.
AJV (05:28):
And many of you want to figure out how to make it your full time gig, or maybe you’ve gotten into one of those. And you’re like, oh, I do not want this one particular piece to be all that I do, but I want to do these other pieces. And I think this is a really interesting, unique part of my life and my past and my expertise that I can really lend some really good solid tips and techniques. But also mindset to help any of you who are in that particular business model of a coach consultant, speaker trainer really truly help you amplify your business and, and double it in the next 12 months. And I think those are the things that are really unique. But I think they’re applicable to any business, as you said, it’s how to double your business, but we put together this training webinar hyper specific to that niche group of individuals, trainers, consultants, speakers, coaches to help them leverage five simple ideas, five simple. And I didn’t say simple, not easy, but five simple things that you can do to start doubling your business. But I do think there’s universal appeal and I think anyone can do that, but this specific training is really unique to that. So that’s what it’s all about.
RV (06:40):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (07:44):
Yeah, it’s, it’s a really simple answers. They try to do it all
AJV (08:27):
And at the end of the day, what, what happens and what I find so often for so many of these individuals, is that the reason you started this is cuz you loved doing what you wanted to do. And now it’s the least amount of time that you do it. It’s like what you did is you loved coaching or you loved speaking and you loved this, but it’s like, that’s not the only part it’s like, you gotta have contracts and agreements and signatures and sales calls and follow up emails and, and interviews. And you track people down and there’s customer service issues. And it’s like, there’s all the different things that start distracting you from keeping the main thing, the main thing. And that’s, that’s the biggest thing. And I find it’s distraction it’s that your, your attention is pulled in so many different areas so quickly, cuz there’s so much to do. And then in really in order to be really good at any of those things, you have to practice your craft, which means you need to be reading and learning and going to conferences and getting coached yourself and networking and learning in all these different atmospheres. And guess what? That takes time too. And let’s not forget any amount of time for yourself, your spouse and your families. Oh yeah. That’s important too. And so I think time distraction is really the number one thing that gets in the way of people scaling this kind of business.
RV (09:48):
Hmm. Yeah. That what you just said there, I think is absolutely true. Right? You start because you go, I wanna help people. I wanna make a difference in the world. Like I wanna change lives. I wanna meet people. I wanna like, see, look people in the eye and like share with them what I know and how I’ve helped. And then it’s so quickly can turn to invoices and bills and taxes and technology and operating systems and payroll and, and you know, documents and all of that stuff. Like this is a little bit of a dis a little bit of a disheartening reality, I think in, in, in many cases. So, so what are, what are some of these things that you’re talking about in terms of how to double the business or, or, or what are some of the tools that you think can help alleviate some of that pain and help experts, coaches, consultants, speakers, authors, help them actually make more money, faster, get back to spending more time doing what they love and, and return to the original reason they started in this space.
AJV (10:48):
Yeah. So in the training webinar that I host, there’s five things that we talk about that will help you double your business. I won’t probably have time to go into all five of those today, but we’ll cover as much as we can, but here’s one of the things that I thought was really interesting when putting together all of this information, which really just started as some value add for our brain builders group, community, our audience people like you who are listening. And I started looking at all these different research reports that were out there about the coaching industry and I found some really staggering statistics that made me stop in my tracks and go, I’m gonna spend a little bit more time here because I really just naturally got curious about, wow, like I wanna learn more about this phenomenon that is coaching training consulting.
AJV (11:33):
And where is it trending? And how does that relate to what we do in personal branding? Right. and I just think personal branding is applicable to anyone who has a reputation. All of you, everyone who is listening has a reputation. But there’s, then there’s a really unique group of people where the more dependent your business is on your reputation, the more important it becomes and being intentional about that reputation, which is personal branding. And so I was spending some time looking at some of these stats and here were a couple that really stood out to me that I thought were fascinating, is that right now coaching, the coaching industry is the second fastest growing industry in the world. Wow. It’s the second fastest growing industry in the world. And some of the backup statistics around that I thought were equally as interesting this year alone it’s, it is expected to exceed a 20 billion industry.
AJV (12:33):
Wow. And I thought, well, that’s a lot of money out there. How many people are involved in this? Right. And so on LinkedIn, and now this is just on LinkedIn, right? I thought this was so fascinating. If you just type in coach as a title on LinkedIn, there are more than 4 million people just on LinkedIn that have the title as coach. Wow. And then I narrowed it down to just the United States and in just the United States alone, it’s approximately 1.8 million people who have the title of coach. And so I got really sucked in one day like really sucked in and I probably spent an hour scrolling all these titles, scrolling all of them. Because I wanted to know like, what kind of coaches are these? Like who are these 1.8 million people? And how come I’ve been in this industry for this long? And it doesn’t seem that prevalent.
AJV (13:31):
Now I know there was a season a time where it’s like, everyone was a coach, right? You’ve got spiritual coaches, dating coaches, marriage, coaches, life coaches, business coaches. In fact, I remember being at a networking meeting. This was probably, gosh, it has to be 10 years ago. Right now has to be 10 years ago. And I remember being at this networking meeting, I think it was like a BNI meeting. I used to be like at every single BNI meeting I could go to. And I remember introducing myself and someone said, well, what do you do? And I said, I’m a consultant. And they said, oh, you mean you’re unemployed? And I was like, am unemployed. And they said, well, I just figured like most people who say that don’t have jobs is that the reputation that coaches and consultants have is that they couldn’t cut it at what they’re doing.
AJV (14:27):
So they go off and do something else, like the old saying, it’s like those who can’t do teach. And I was like, that’s some serious BS. Right. I was like, no, I’m employed. And I’m doing really well. And I’m a consultant. I was so offended.
AJV (15:19):
And so when I saw that number 1.8 million people, I was just fascinated around who are all these people. And so I started going through there and, and where are they? Yeah. They’re apparently they’re everywhere. Apparently they’re everywhere. But then it, it was really interesting cuz I was scrolling through all these titles around, this is why people think we’re unemployed. And I looked at those titles and they were so vague and so generic and so general that as I was scrolling, even someone who was in this industry who dedicates her life to helping people in these industries grow and build their businesses, build their reputations in these fields. I was really thinking through here would never hire. You don’t even know what that means. And I was like, whoa, pause right there. And that was like one of the biggest aha moments of going, I’m putting a training together.
AJV (16:15):
I need to talk about this because these are the same problems that I suffered from our team member suffer from our clients are friends suffer from, is that someone says, what do you do? And he says, I’m a life coach. What is that? And what do you do? And you hear that term so often, or I’m a business coach, I’m a sales coach. And those were these like wide broadening terms that I kept running into. And then it just started like triggering the triggering, that old experience that I had from this BNI meeting where they go, oh, that means you’re unemployed. And then it just all hit me at once. It’s like, yeah, like that is the problem. It’s because we’re not clear on what we do and who we serve as the coach, the consultant, the trainer, the speaker. And instead we go, I can help anyone with anything which why they have this, these ridiculously broad terms like life coach, like what can you help me with exactly in my life?
AJV (17:14):
Like, what is it exactly, same with business. There’s so many different things. And we try to be, you know, the master of many thus while mastering nothing. And then I tie that on all in with what we do at brain builders group. And that’s one of these things, all these dots started connecting for me and it’s like really, truly to break through. She hands’ wall. We talk about this all the time. Like to break through the wall, you need to become known for one thing. Yet most of us try to do everything we say yes to everything. Right. I did that for years as a consultant, they were like, well, can you help me with this? Sure. Can I’ll figure it out before I invoice you. Right. It’s like I said yes to whatever it was leadership. Sure. Marketing, sure. Sales, sure. Retention.
AJV (18:01):
Sure. Can you help me with collections? I think so. Yeah, sure can do that too. It’s like, did it matter what it was? The answer was, I’ll figure it out. And I think there’s a time and a place for that and that’s really short lived and then you need to figure out what exactly am I supposed to be doing and who am I supposed to be doing it with? And for, and then I ran into a few of these titles as I was having, like these revelation moments of these are all the mistakes I made. Right. I did it for years and it was really hard and it was exhausting, but it doesn’t have to be that way. It really doesn’t. And then I started running into some titles that said this high business growth coach for young CEOs. And I was like, BA click.
AJV (18:47):
I wanna see what you do, why I’m in a high growth business. And I’m a young CEO. It was so clear. It was so clear. They had niche down so much that I could literally just read their title and go, I think they could help me. Right. And then I saw other ones that were like, you know, a financial growth coach for small businesses. I was like, what do you do? I wanna go to your website. And then I started like paying attention to which ones caught me. And the ones that caught me were really, really specific. This is actually something you say all the time I steal it, but I always give you credit. Oh, okay. It’s the more specific, the more terrific, right. It’s like, however cheesy that is. I have never forgotten it. The more
RV (19:33):
Cheesy, wait a minute. We weren’t talking about cheesy. We were talking about brilliant, but okay. I’ll take cheesy.
AJV (19:39):
Brilliant. Yes. But the more specific, the more terrific. And that’s a huge part of this. It’s like, if you really want to double your business and double your income, if you really want business finding you, if you want other people to explain what you do in layman’s terms, without them having to go to your website, it needs to be that clear. You need to be able to niche down so that anyone who knows you, who has heard of you, who has worked with you can say exactly what you do and who you do it for in one sentence. It is so important for the ability for other people to think of you and to refer you to people because they think about what you do and who you do it for. Right. And I think about like us at brain builders group, like we see all the time, it’s like we help experts become more well known. And then I thought about the first decade of my life as a consultant coach speaker, I had no clarity. I was like, I can help any sales team grow revenue. Oh, well how specific is that? And it was like, then it just dawned me as I was reading through all of is like, they aren’t clear on what they do. And for someone who’s just scrolling of going, what do you do? It’s gotta be that clear in your title. So it’s, it’s ne it’s, nicheing down. It’s getting so specific that someone can read your title, read your business card, right. Scroll through literally a one line statement on your LinkedIn profile and go, I want to learn about how you could help me.
RV (21:15):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (22:15):
Yeah. Like one of the things it’s like, and I think about this in my own life, it’s like, I have, as you know, I have a business coach and I have a life coach. Right. And it’s like, both of them, their reputation preceded them. Right. And it wasn’t like, I probably would’ve just picked a random business coach or life coach off of a LinkedIn title. But it’s enough for me to go. I want someone like that. And so I always think about it. It’s like, do my friends, family, acquaintances, you know, people that I’m in the community with. Do they know what I do that specifically? And it’s part of, it’s a conditioning. Like people ask me all the time. I get asked this all the time. How can I help you? And I’m like, the next time that you hear someone say this, refer them to me. And it’s like, you gotta help people think about you. It’s like, when they say this, refer them to me, that’s how you can help them.
RV (23:12):
Yeah. That’s really good. Those literal like kind of triggers like yeah. And I think about like our speaker friends, like when someone comes up to you after you’re on stage and they say, how do I get to be you mm-hmm
AJV (23:47):
It’s speech down. Do not in general, do not be broad. It’s like, you are not a life coach. You are not, you, you focus on some component of life. What is that? Is it spirituality? Is it health? Is it mindset? Is it nutrition? Is it relationships? You do not talk about life. There are so many things to life. It is impossible, right? So it’s like, tell me exactly what you’re gonna do for me in my life, in my business, with my financials, with my team and with my leadership potential, like it’s not a leadership consultant. Like what part of leadership, what part of sales? What part of marketing, what part of business get so clear that it’s polarizing? And that, that is like, it’s not just get clear on what it’s like, be so clear. It’s polarizing. People need to say, I don’t need that. Or where have you been my whole life? Right. It’s like, here’s my money. Or I’m just keep on going. It needs to be that clear.
RV (24:45):
Yeah. I love that. And again, so the, the URL is double dot brand builders, group.com, double dot brand builders, group.com. You can watch this whole free training. We got a couple minutes left here still.
AJV (24:56):
I got two more. I got, I’ll go fast. I got two more. All
RV (24:59):
Right, go
AJV (24:59):
For it. I’m gonna start, I’m gonna start the second one with a story. So about a month ago, I was on a podcast with this amazing interview with Mo tepo right. And we were talking about negotiation and sales and mindset, right? And the reason that people aren’t sometimes considered good negotiators mainly by themselves or good sales people. And the reason is why. And we have a, a a distorted view of what is negotiation and a distorted view of what is sales. And that’s really true, right. I used to be embarrassed to tells people that I was in sales because I didn’t wanna be viewed as you know, that old cliche, a used car salesman today is the proudest thing. I tell people I’m like, I might be a CEO and I might be these, but at the end of the day, I’m a salesperson.
AJV (25:47):
And I now hold it in such high regard because it’s a skillset that’s so few really possess. And I have come to learn that over the years. And I really took for granted the sales skills and sales training that I was able to get at a really, really young age and just get beat around
AJV (26:42):
So they don’t talk about it. And instead of leveraging the people who know us and trust us and like us the most to help us grow our business, we somehow think finding strangers on the internet is what’s going to be this, the solution. How bizarre is that? Just stay with movers for a second. Just take a moment and think about the people who love, trust and believe in you more than anyone else. How much time do you spend with them talking about what you do? Do they know what you do? The clients who serve their results, do they know? And then think about how much time and energy you spend on trying to attract complete strangers who have never met you before to buy your products and services.
RV (27:28):
Mm
AJV (27:29):
It’s bizarre. Y all it’s crazy. And it’s because we don’t wanna come across as salesy. We don’t want to rub anyone the wrong way or offend anyone. And here’s the real problem is you’re only concerned with yourself. You’re so focused on what, how I don’t wanna look, you pay no attention to, are there people right in front of me who need what I do or do they know someone who needs what I do? And so I believe in something called the six foot role and the six foot role means that you have to be willing to tell anyone within six feet of you about what you do it is that simple, not always easy, but simple. And that is because you feel compelled to talk about it because you were that passionate about it, because you believe in what you can do so much, that you cannot contain it because you have seen lives change.
AJV (28:25):
You have seen businesses change, you know, the transformation that will happen with the work that you do with people. So you feel compelled to share it. It’s not about a sale or marketing or being self promotional. It’s about being of the belief and of the mindset that I do. Something that has the power to change your business and change your life. So, yeah, I will tell any single person who is in six, within six feet of me, about what I do, because I believe in it. And that’s a di a slight shift in mentality. And I’ll give you two quick examples about this. And and then we can just like, kind of go from there, but there are two things that I have found
RV (29:00):
In that that was fired though. Like just to put a punctuation point on like that little clip, like we have to cut that clip for social media, like rewind that and listen to it. Like that was so powerful. And, and you nailed it. Like, we’re so afraid of how we don’t want to look to people that we are ignoring all of the people who are right around us, who need what we do like that is that so sorry to stop you. But that was just like,
AJV (29:31):
Why preach
RV (29:31):
It preach it? Vaden
AJV (29:32):
Believes that some sort of digital marketing tip or some social media formula somehow going to help your business grow it ain’t let me just be honest with you. It’s not, what’s gonna make your business grow is getting incredible results for people and having the courage to ask them to share it and having enough courage and belief in yourself to talk about it and to put yourself out there, right? You don’t need clients from around the world. You need clients in your own community. It’s amazing to me that some people and it’s amazing to myself, right? Our, our, our mindset is so limited. It’s frightening. And we were at a, a recent brain builders group event that I had the privilege of MC and one of our customers was in there. One of our clients and actually has a very expensive package.
AJV (30:19):
It’s a six figure package. And she needs like 12 clients who are willing to pay a hundred thousand dollars with her on retainer for what she needs to do to hit her goals. And and I just, I paused and I said, you know, Joe, can you just listen to yourself for one second? And you’re like, I need 12. And I’m like, no, you only need 12. There are 358 million Americans. You need 12. What’s keeps for some perspective here. Y’all and it’s like, we get so consumed. Where am I gonna find the next person? And it’s like, let me say that one more time. There are almost 360 million Americans. There are almost 8 billion people on planet earth. Most of us are looking for 30, 40, 50, a hundred clients. That’s it? Y’all, that’s it. You do not need to look outside of your own, you know, zip code to find 10 clients you don’t, but somehow we’re trying to far reach far and wide, and we’re not looking right in front of us.
AJV (31:21):
It’s a huge miss. And I just one I’m super passionate about the second thing that I was gonna share is that most of us miss opportunities, because we’re not present in the moment. And I’ve got two stories about this. I wanna share. We’re so sucked into our devices that we can’t see human beings all around us. We’re so sucked into catching up on texts and emails and posting on social and trying to get ahead that we forget the people who are willing to buy our products and services are sitting right next to us on the bleachers. So what if we’re a second, you actually engaged in human conversation? What would that do for you? If every single time you had a spare moment in line or sitting, or on an airplane that you weren’t sucked into some sort of technology and you actually engaged in actual conversation, how much business could you get from just that?
AJV (32:09):
And it’s free. Y’all two quick stories. One of the best consulting clients I ever picked up, I picked up at a softball game brewer. You should probably remember this story. Mm-Hmm,
AJV (32:51):
And he said, oh, they’re on the same team. And he goes, what are you doing here? And I said, oh, I’m here to watch my husband’s niece, Peyton play softball. And he goes, no kidding, Peyton, Gale. And I said, yeah, Peyton, Gale. He goes, that’s my daughter’s best friend. And I said, no way. I said, hi, my name’s AJ Dayden. I said, so what do you do that? You’re reading this book. He goes, oh, I’m the VP of sales for this, you know gifting company. And I said, really, he goes, what do you do? And I said, oh, I actually help individuals. Like you build and grow their sales teams. He goes, what do you mean? And I said, I work with a company that does sales consulting. That specifically is looking to help improve their sales team and their sales processes and sales philosophies.
AJV (33:30):
And he goes, can you tell me more about that? He ended up being one of my best clients of all time, that one conversation at a softball game because of a human conversation led to a book, being sent a conversation, being had a proposal being accepted and more than $350,000 in business, because I was willing to have a conversation with someone sitting on the bleachers at a softball game. It would’ve never happened. If I was stuck in my phone, texting, emailing it, would’ve never happened if I wasn’t just willing to say hi, how are you doing right? More recently we were in The Bahamas for mother’s day. I told my husband here on this interview with me. I wanna go to The Bahamas from mother’s day. So that’s what we did. And we were our second day and our also our second trip to the water park.
AJV (34:18):
And it was at the end of the day. And it was a long day. And so I walked over to the Dery shack because that’s what I’m gonna do on mother’s day. I’m gonna get myself a Dery. And there was this very sunburn gentleman in front of me who was very hot and sweaty. And he had his two daughters and he was like, had a whole tray of drinks. And he was getting these lemonades for his kids. And he looks back at me and he could tell, I was also really sunburn sweaty. And at the end of like the five hours at a water park, and he said, you’re having fun. And I said, I am sits in a long day, but I’m having fun. I said, how about you? And he goes, yeah, we’re here on a big family trip. And I said, that’s awesome.
AJV (34:53):
And I said, your, your little girls are so cute. And he said, thanks. And I said, I do have kids. I know I’m by myself. They’re over there in the pool. He said, where are you in from? I said, I’m in from Nashville, Tennessee. And he goes, let me guess, you’re a musician. I said, I’m the least amount of musical talent on planet earth. He goes, wait an actress. I said, Nope, definitely not that. And he goes, well, what are you doing in Nashville? And I said, oh, my husband and I have a personal branding firm. I said, we help entrepreneurs build their personal brands. And he said, no. I said
AJV (35:38):
And I said, guess what? That’s what we do. We help people actually build their speaking business, craft their content and become better speakers and get booked to speak. He goes, you do that for people like me. And I said, I sure do. And I said, do you have your phone on you? He goes, yeah. And I said, pull up your phone type in www dot brain builders, group.com. So he pulls it up and I said, go to the about S page. So he pulls up the about S page. I said, scroll down. He scrolls down to the very end. You see that person right there. He goes, yeah. I said, that’s me. I said, that look really different. Not in a baby suit. I said, that’s me. I said, that’s me and my husband. This is our company. And so I took him to the next page and I said, scroll down.
AJV (36:13):
You see that little button where it says, request a call. I said, click that button. And I said, there’s a little form there where we’ll actually give you a free call to see if we can help. And if not, we’ll send you a bunches of free resources. And if so then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll help you build your personal brand and we’ll help you go speak all around the world. And he said, are you kidding me? I can’t believe I’m staying online. And I just met you. I was just telling my wife about this. And I was like, I don’t believe in coincidence. So click that button. Y’all wow. You have to be welling to tell anyone about what you do. If you believe in it, the person sitting next to you in the bleachers or the, you know, sweaty sunburn person and head of you at line at the Zachery, you know, at the Dery shack at the beach, it’s gotta be compelling. It’s gotta be just coming out of you. And it’s like, maybe he got a call. Maybe he did. And I haven’t looked it up. The point is, is I’m not afraid and I’m not ashamed cuz I don’t find it as self promotional. I’m like, I believe it. So I’m gonna tell you about it until the point where you go. It’s not a fit and then that’s cool too, but you cannot be embarrassed or ashamed about it. You wanna know why your business isn’t growing. You’re not telling anyone about it. That’s why.
RV (37:26):
Hmm. Wow. That is so good, babe. Like you all need to go watch this training and spend time with AJ double dot brand builders, group.com. She’s gonna walk you through this and just give us like 60 seconds this free training. One of the reasons that we put it together is we, we are launching a program, something we’ve never, ever, ever done before. Just give us a little 62nd hint on, on what, what that is.
AJV (37:58):
Yeah. I mean, this it’s part of the webinar too. Is this doing all this research? And again, coincidentally running across this research report, which I truly don’t believe in coincidence. I believe God puts every single thing in my path. It’s just, am I alert and aware? Am I present enough to see what he’s doing in our life and in our business? And I don’t believe coming across that study and getting sucked into this deep dark hole of wow, like that is what I struggled with. I just don’t think that was on accident. I think it was well intended. And a few of the things that I think are really unique is that one of the reasons that people really struggle with this is they don’t solid content to jump off of. Right? It’s like they know that they wanna help people. They know that they wanna coach or train or consult or speak, but creating content is freaking hard work.
AJV (38:46):
Y’all like, let’s just like, it is, it is work. And it takes energy and time and resources. And personal branding is a really popular topic right now. And we get approached all the time by individuals who are going, man, I don’t wanna be like a personal brand strategist with you, but I wanna be able to teach personal branding to my executive clients. Right. And they’re, everyone’s asking about like, do I need a personal brand or what is it? Or you know, how do I become more well known or in this age of there’s a lot of distrust in the marketplace, how do I create more trust? And so one of the things we said is like, well, we may not be able to do everything for you, but what we can give you is a really solid set of content that we know works.
AJV (39:27):
And that we wanna be a launching pad for people who claim themselves as consultants, speakers, coaches in this world. And we wanna be a launching pad of giving the tools and the resources. We’re not gonna give it all to you. Right? Part of this is like your own unique twist, but we’re gonna give you the, the certification and a personal branding curriculum, finding our brand DNA to give you that launching pad of content where you can take someone through a really secure methodology and a process of helping them identify their reputation and use it to help ’em grow their business. For those of you wanna be speakers, it’s like some of the, the hardest work is like, how do I get everything I wanna say about something into 60 minutes, right? It’s easy to talk for hours. It’s really hard to talk for a little bit of time about something really important.
AJV (40:10):
So we’re gonna give you a keynote. We’re gonna give you a webinar. We’re gonna give you all these different tools to be a launching pad for your business. Now for us, it’s unique in that personal branding reputation space, but I really do believe it’s like everyone has a personal brand. If you have a reputation, you have a personal brand. It’s just a matter of how we, we leverage that to help you become an expert or be known as an expert in your space. And that was the Genesis for all of this. And then along the way of going, maybe our curriculum isn’t for you, but you just need some, you need some insights of what really works and what doesn’t. And that’s why we put this training. You know, this free training together for you whether or not ever licensing our content or being a part of, you know, our community is a fit for you.
AJV (40:54):
We wanna give you free resources. And I’d say, that’s one of the things we talk about in the webinars, don’t be afraid to give it away. People are like, I’ve had a few people who are really close friends of mine who were coaches watch this. And they’re like, aren’t you afraid that you just gave it all away? And I was like, no, no, absolutely not. I was like, I’m gonna give it all. If I had two more hours, I’d give away some more stuff. It’s like, don’t be afraid to give it all away. This is, if you, like, there are two simple formulas to building relationships, give value, build trust at the end, give so much value that the person says, oh my gosh, I feel like I have to pay you for this. Right. Give so much value that they feel compelled to go.
AJV (41:35):
What can I do for you? Like I just learned so much, like I cannot believe how much you gave away in 60 minutes. Like, why would you do that? That’s how I want you to feel. Cause that’s how you should feel. That’s how you garner trusted followers and you don’t need millions of ’em. You need a few, remember you don’t need millions of clients. You don’t need thousands of clients. You don’t even need hundreds of clients. Most of you just need dozens of clients. Right. and it does, you don’t have to do a whole lot of work to get that, but you gotta, you gotta do some right. You gotta do some strategic things to help minimize the distraction that you’ve got in your business. And so this webinar’s gonna give you five of those.
RV (42:11):
Oh, so good. Again, check out the webinar, double dot brand builders, group.com. AJ goes through us whole training about how to double your business in the next year. Also you know, at the end of that, she’ll talk to you a little bit more about kind of our licensing pro program and what we’re doing. And there’s so much it takes to start a business. Creating content can be one of the things that we can take off your plate. I mean, our content has been so proven and well utilized the last few years by very, very recognizable personal brains. And also those just starting out. So we’d love for you to be a part of that. And we have
AJV (42:43):
No shame in saying we believe it is freaking awesome. We have awesome contents.
RV (42:49):
Our content is awesome. You
AJV (42:51):
Should not be ashamed either, right? It’s like brag on yourself because you believe in what it does. I got no problems bragging on Roy Vaden, who is the mastermind behind most of our content. It is life changing. It works. It’s methodical, it’s systematic. It’s all the things it’s entertaining. I will, I will happily sing our contents phrases and yours Rory because I believe that’s, if you believe in what you do that much, that’s what you should be doing. I believe in ours that much.
RV (43:21):
Well, thank you, babe. And, and thanks all of y’all. If you, if you are interested in that you wanna go straight to learning about the licensing. If you go to license dot brand builders, group.com, license dot brand builders, group.com, you can go straight there and start learning about that right away. But if not go to double dot brand builders, group.com. Listen to this training with AJ. Thanks for being here. We love you. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 283: Turning Your Lifestyle Into a Business with Natasha Stoneking | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/podcast, brand builders, group.com/podcast. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hello friends. This is AJ Vaden here with another recap episode of the influential personal brand co podcast. I am going to be doing the cliff notes version of my conversation with Natasha stone king who was an old friend of mine. We went to college together and she has just really blown up on a social media, but more importantly it’s been a, a steady climbed for her, which is what I love is to hear the truth behind things. There’s and the truth is, is there’s no secret to overnight success. It is consistent. It is often gradual and there is always a ton of work happening behind the scenes, but she has built an incredible life and style business with incredible monetization with brand deals and all these different things she has going on online. And so we’re gonna talk about three things that she shared today that I think are really helpful, and it doesn’t matter if you are trying to monetize your audience.
AJV (01:59):
If you really consider yourself a, a blogger or an online influencer, an not, I think these tips really do ring true, no matter what your business model is. But just good, good old fashioned reminders of what it takes to become successful in business. No matter if that business is online or not. So here we go here are the first three or the first of my three things. And I love, I love that. She said that she has been blogging since 2008 y’all it’s 22, right? So she’s been at this for 15 years. This is something that she said, I started doing it because I loved it. I keep doing it because I love it. And my audience, my engagement, my followership has continued to grow because I’ve been consistent. And so here are a couple of things. I think it’s really important for us all to remember success.
AJV (02:55):
Success does not happen overnight. It happened through consistency. And if we’re trying to build something in a month or even in just a year, it’s like, that’s really not fair. It’s not fair to you. And it’s not fair to your message. It’s not fair to the people around you. We live in this era of instant gratification and that’s just not how it always works, especially in business. But it’s about consistency goes, I have been consistent this entire time. My topics have changed. I have changed my life has changed, but I’ve been consistent through the whole process. And here I have a couple things that she’s super consistent on that I thought was really important. She does a coffee a morning coffee live on Instagram every morning and does not miss it. She goes, I am almost always in my PJs with my coffee.
AJV (03:44):
And I’m just sharing a little bit of inspiration and optimism for the day, every single morning. That’s a big deal. That’s a huge commitment. But a part of that is she goes, I’m building a relationship. I’m building a relationship with my audience. Isn’t just for engagement. This is something that I am passionate about doing, I enjoy doing, which is why it doesn’t feel like work. Right? And I think those are just really good reminders when we get bogged down with, oh, I just have to keep doing it. It’s like, no, you shouldn’t have to. It’s something that you should want to do. Because even when it’s online, this is still relationship building. It just happens differently. Like we wouldn’t expect that the person that we’re married to, right, or the person that we’re dating or whatever, it’s like, tho those relationships were not built through just texts or through posts.
AJV (04:36):
Right. There was human connection. There was a consistency effort. There, there was get to know me. And I wanna get to know you, it’s this virtual element of relationship building that ti it does take time and it does take consistency, but it’s gotta be done in authentic, in an authentic way where you, you genuinely care about making a difference in doing what you’re doing, which makes it feel less of a burden and more of something that you get to do, not something you have to do, but it’s finding those things of like, what am I gonna be truly consistent with, right. And maybe it’s one post a week. Maybe it’s not a a morning coffee session. But maybe it’s, it’s one post a week, but you’ve gotta train your audience what to expect from you. Right. And that was kind of like the number one thing I thought that was really good.
AJV (05:20):
The second thing is she goes, I, I love on my audience and specifically her email list, right? So this is kind of like 0.2 and three. So I’m gonna stick to the love part. And then we’ll talk about the email list part. But I love on them and I loved what she talked about and you should go listen to this. She goes, I’m doing giveaways all the time. She says, I, you know, I have helped co-design different line for tons of different brands. And anytime that I get my, you know, my pieces of what I’ve designed is I always set one aside to be able to share and give away to my audience hyper specifically in her email list. But again, it’s like, what are the things that you’re doing to actually create excitement and share the love with your audience?
AJV (06:02):
And that could be your social media audience could be your podcast, subscribers, blog, subscribers, email list whatever it may be, but what are some things that you’re doing to infuse a little fun into your engagement, right? It’s like, I’m not a exaggerating, I, I did this podcast interview with Natasha yesterday and this morning. I literally pulled up my email and I was sent this to our marketing team. And I was like, all right, y’all it is time to infuse a little fun with how we engage with our audience. So I wanna be doing BG summer swag giveaways. We did this thing last year called the 12 days of B E B G for Christmas, where we gave something away for the 12 days leading up to Christmas. But it’s like, what are we doing to just create a little fun, a little engagement, a little excitement, a little giveaway to just switch things up to also make people feel a little loved on, and it’s like, you don’t have to buy anything from us to get this.
AJV (06:54):
Like, this is something we wanna do because you give us to your time and attention, however frequently that is, it’s like, thank you. There’s a bunch of other things that can be getting your attention out there. Thanks for giving me a little bit of yours. I love that. And she says she does it all the time and I’m like, no, I’m gonna be like, I’m gonna be following her a heck of a lot more closely because there’s this element of fun. And so a prize that we all enjoy and it’s like, what are we doing to actually share the love back to our audience, back to the people that are engaging with us, that we’re trying to build these relationships with. And that was like one of the biggest takeaways for me. I literally spent like 20 minutes writing up this detailed outline of, okay, this is what we’re gonna do on a quarterly basis.
AJV (07:37):
And these my annual fun things. But I think that’s the key word. It’s like, what are you doing to create fun with your audience? Like, how are you creating this in excitement that we all wanna be a part of? So I loved that. I love that so much. And then my third thing, and I love what she said. She goes, I was just taught really young, really early in the business, that the most important thing, always your email list. And, you know, if you follow myself a brewer or brand builders group, you know, this is something that we are already true believers in. It’s like, if you are only building your platforms on social media then you are been building on rented real estate, my friend, and building your email list is probably now even more so than before ever increasingly that much more important owning that first party data is a huge part of today and into the future.
AJV (08:25):
So it’s like, what are you doing to compel someone to want to give you their email, right. But what kind of unique, original content are they gonna get in your email list that they’re not getting on social media? Are they not getting on your blog or they’re not getting on your podcast? And I think those are really, and I think different things that we hear is so often what we hear so much about is how do you multiply time by taking one piece of content and splicing it and using all these different places. And I will say there is a time and a place for that. There’s also a time and a place not to do that. And I believe this is a part of that, of what kind of original unique content are you creating for your email list that is only for your email list.
AJV (09:05):
Like that’s the only place you’re gonna get it, right? And perhaps part of those giveaways are just for your email list, but it’s creating original unique content that you’re not gonna get anywhere else. You’re only gonna get it. If you’re a part of my email list and it’s nurturing that list and treating that list is different and unique from the other platforms. So again, it’s creating intention, it’s building these online relationships. It’s infusing excitement into fun and y’all, these are just three things that we talk about, but we also talked about her brand deals and how to know if a brand is right for you, things that you can be doing. If you’re trying to get brand deals way before you go after them. The art of proactively reaching out called prospecting called sales and not waiting on other people to do it for you, how much you should be doing versus having an agent or a PR team. Now that we talked about so much in 45 minutes this is a interview talk full of real life. Like here’s what you do. Here’s how you do it from someone who’s doing it right now. So hope you enjoyed this. Please go check this out. Check out Natasha at hello, happiness, blog.com. And then always stay tune and come back and visit us again at the influential personal brand.
Ep 282: Turning Your Lifestyle Into a Business with Natasha Stoneking
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. One of your co-hosts here CEO of brand builders group. And y’all, this is such a special treat today because I get to have an old friend on the podcast and you guys are about to meet Natasha. But she and I actually went to college together and completely lost touch for like several years. And then we both ended up in Nashville. And most recently I think this is like at the beginning of the pandemic. I don’t even know if you remember this, but we ran into each other at Starbucks. And I was like, I’m pretty sure I haven’t seen you like 10 years. And then from there I started following you online and following your blog and you’re doing so many cool things online. And then one day I remember being at green Hills mall and I was walking around.
AJV (00:49):
I was like, pretty sure that’s Natasha on that.
NS (01:55):
Well, I’m thrilled to be here with you guys. Thank you so much for having me.
AJV (01:58):
Oh my gosh. It’s gonna be awesome. And so we start every episode with this kind of same, and, and I told you right before we started, you’ve had approximately two minutes to prepare for this
NS (02:17):
Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, a lot of people in social media kind of just stumble into it. And I was working in, in corporate media marketing for a big consulting firm and was just kind of doing the eight to five Monday through Friday, but not getting to use my creative brain, you know, which is what you and I studied at UT in advertising. And so I started a blog in April of 2008, which is crazy. Like I’m about to celebrate almost 14 of blogging, which, you know, back then there was no hashtag ad. There was no, you know, sponsored posting. There was no monetization of blogging whatsoever. It was mainly me sharing recipes, media events, things going on in my life in Nashville, just as a way to kind of document my life and serve as an online kind of creative journal, if you will.
NS (03:08):
And so I started doing that on the side and it really kind of picked up in 2010 when I got engaged to my now husband, Jeff. And that was pretty much when Pinterest started becoming extremely popular and everybody wanted to know all about wedding inspiration. So that was pretty much one of the early focuses of my blog and all the social media channels. And that’s where I developed, you know, an audience in a community of people who wanted to follow along. And so from that, it was all things wedding. And then we, you know, got married and got pregnant and that it was instantly all things, pregnancy and motherhood and nursery and home design. And so the cool thing about my social media channels is that it has absolutely followed me through a lot of the chapters I love and all of those peaks throughout my life. So it’s fun to see. So many of the people that have followed me since day one, believe it, or, and they’ve seen me, you know, go from a corporate marketing manager to running my own e-commerce business to a full on life and style blogger and kind of navigating all of those different paths.
AJV (04:11):
Oh my gosh. And you said something that I think is so important and it’s actually something that we talk a ton about at our company brand builders group, as we talk about how it’s like to really become known for anything, you have to become known for one thing. And to hear you say that it was like really where your following started was in that wedding niche. Yeah. And then was
NS (04:32):
So crazy to me, but there wasn’t a lot of bloggers back then. Yeah. There was a handful of us. And so I think obviously the pickings were a lot slimmer
AJV (04:41):
But it’s like, I think that that’s prove such a great point. It’s like, it’s like go all in on one thing that you’re super interested in that you’re super passionate becomes really easy to you build a falling with that and then let it naturally and organically evolve from there. Yep. And I,
NS (04:56):
It actually resonates with your audience a lot more and you build that relationship it and that rapport, and most importantly, the trust.
AJV (05:05):
Yeah. Well, I think that’s huge. And it’s like, because now it’s like you, do you talk about so many different things? It’s like, you’ve got cooking recipes, you’ve got fashion, you’ve got tips, trends, favorite things that you love, you know, you still have your girls on there all the time, which I love, of course it’s such, such a family component. But you talk about travel a lot. And I love, you know, learning about your properties that you have in 30 a, and it’s like all these different cool things that it’s evolved to. And so I’m curious, and rather this is just what you’ve done naturally, or maybe there was some logic and science to it. I don’t know. I’m so curious to see what you’re gonna say, but how do you decide what is gonna be the thing and the topic that you’re focused on?
NS (05:45):
Well, obviously I think a lot of that comes from just real life. What do I have going on in any, you know, any given day, week or month? And, you know, I sit with my assistant Ashley and we kind of, you know, strategize on a social media content calendar, what things are coming up, you know, obviously Easter’s on the horizon or summer. So we’re thinking of family stuff. We’re thinking of spring break plans. We’re talking about upcoming summer destinations. So all of these things a lot, you know, just go along with this season, but I’m also thinking about what do people wanna hear. I mean, a lot of times people come to social media for an escape from the real world, but I’m also just very blatantly honest. I think, you know, I kind of show different facets of my life, which is how I’ve kind of moved more into life and style rather than just family or just fashion. You know, I get, I can get kind of bored of just showing fashion or just showing my family because I think there’s so many different things that make me, me, and I hope that that kind of, you know, helps people to understand I’m just like them.
AJV (06:45):
Yeah, no, I think that is true. And I it’s like, like even I had all your stuff pulled up even before getting on here. And it’s like, I love too of like how much of it just reflects your personality. It’s like, it just everything you do screams you. And I think that’s really a huge part of just being authentic and probably why your followers continue to grow, grow and grow as they are. So I have a couple of like odd questions that I think would be just really interesting for all of our audience of do you find that there are certain things that you post that you just know, I know this is gonna, this is gonna be a win or are you always still kind of guessing of like, I don’t know, I don’t know what’s gonna be the most liked or the most shared or the most engaged. I have no idea.
NS (07:27):
Oh my gosh, I wish I knew the algorithms and how they’re always changing. And I wish I could predict all those things. I think if there was one source of content that I know is always is going, you know, to get lots of likes or comments or feedback, it’s gonna be me posting the kids. Everybody wants to see Caroline in Carson. I mean, I’m biased, but I think they’re adorable.
AJV (08:47):
Oh, I love that. You know, and I think that speaks true. It’s like, you know, and one of the reasons I’m asked is like, we’ve been doing a lot of split testing with our different social channels and I can post a piece of content and then I can post pictures of me and my kids in our Halloween costumes. And that will get 100 times the engagement that my piece of content did. And I, I think it speaks a lot too. It’s like people really want to know more of who you are versus what you do. Yeah.
NS (09:15):
Right. And I think that’s also why videos, reels, and stories are. So I think more and more brands and retailers are really spending their, you know, ad dollars on the more video type of things, because you can really get to know somebody, you can see it in action and use, and it’s not just a pretty picture. And, you know, kinda like what you said, the ones where from doing, you know, a selfie of an outfit in my office, they always get better engagement rather than a style photo shoot because that’s not real life.
AJV (09:41):
Yeah. I love that. So, okay. So this is a good transition then. So some tips for people out there who are building this life and style kind of business, and they’re trying to figure out how to monetize it, which we’ll get to that in just a minute, but for, for everyone who, okay, how do I increase my followership? How do I increase engagement? Do you have any best practices on the type of post or the type of reel, the type of video or the type of copy that you’re using to increase followers and engagement?
NS (10:14):
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, a couple things that I do very frequently I ask a lot of questions on static posts so that I am getting that engagement, you know, people are answering or if I’m doing a giveaway, I say, you know, list your favorite three things about the beach or whatever the subject matter may be. I think that always helps. One thing I am I do will never hand off to someone else as I respond to each and every DM that I get, it’s very time consuming. I will admit to that, but I do it throughout the day so that it’s not stockpiled for me. You know, when I’m in bed at night and the relationships and the rapport and the community that I’ve built with those people, because one, they know they’re talking to me and two, they know I’m going to respond as they, and it exemplifies what is missing in social media right now.
NS (11:00):
And I think, I hope that it, you know, really shows them that I’m not just walking the wall, but I’m actually, you know, if they ask me, how does that blouse run, I’m gonna text them back and say, you know, it’s true to size or, you know, this is how it fits or whatever it may be, but people remember those things. And like I said before, I think it’s all about building trust. And if you don’t continue to build that trust, they’re gonna go somewhere else. So I definitely think that’s helpful in kind of building that rapport with your followers. I think being open and upfront and honest is also, you know, I think people come to me for positive and, you know, happiness quotes and all those things and color. But I also am honest when I’m having a bad day or, you know, if I’m somethings go going wrong because they wanna know that you’re just a regular person. And so it’s all pretty to have a, you know, a, a very aesthetically pleasing fee, but that’s not real, I think, long gone those days. And as long as you’re staying true to who you are, brands will know that. And it’ll show, it’ll definitely start to show. And so your numbers will follow and you know, just, that’s all I can just, you know, that’s all I have to say about that.
AJV (12:03):
I think that’s good though. It’s like authentic engagement of not outsourcing it, not using bots. It’s like, Nope, this is real life human relationships that I’m working at building. And in order to build a business, you need to do that, right. Yes. Frankly. And
NS (12:16):
Quality over quantity. I think gone are the days where people are just seeing an engagement rate or a conversion rate, or how many followers you have brands really don’t care about that anymore. Yeah. More and more I’m seeing that, which is very great for somebody in my kind of niche, because they’re like, wait a minute. That doesn’t mean she’s not engaged. That doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have, you know, loyal followers. That just means that she’s really paying attention to what she’s doing. And you’re not gonna see me taking on brand partnerships and deals with products that I don’t wholeheartedly back.
AJV (12:46):
Yeah. I think that’s awesome. So, okay. So that’s a great transition to the next thing is monetizing, right? How do we do all this? Cuz I think so many people are fallen into one of two buckets. They have an amazing business and not enough people know about them or they have a huge audience, but they’re not monetizing it. Right. And it’s like marrying those two things is a really big deal.
NS (13:25):
Yeah, so obviously the biggest would probably be through like, to know it because it’s easy, it’s accessible, you know, many people I think through the pandemic had to become even more familiar with shopping online, whether they wanted to, or not, especially in those eight, those older age demographics specifically. I mean, my mom would come over and she’d be like, how do I do this?
AJV (14:14):
Right. Instagram
NS (14:15):
Ram changes, Facebook changes, LTK changes all of these change, things change. And some of these people are gonna be out there without a bone when things change. And they’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t own any of this content because I’ve shared it to only these platforms. So I always try to drive people back to my blog is kind of the hub yeah. Of everything, whether that be recipes or my travel or packing tips, or obviously the life and style component or my home design, anything like that. I always try to bring back to my blog and that way it, how it stays there forever.
AJV (14:46):
Yeah.
NS (14:47):
And I think that’s extremely important is having that platform that you own the rights to another thing is that’s been tremendous in, you know, growing my monetization is email newsletters. Again, that’s information that you solely own on your, by yourself. No one has privileged data to that. I also work directly with brands. You know, a lot of times you have to go through these middle media people. And a lot of times I’ll reach out to brands directly, whether that, you know, be searching for their PR or media email on their website, or if that’s actually sending them a DM on Instagram. And a lot of times that’s how I’ve gotten some of my longer term partnerships like Soma intimates. I work with them on a monthly basis and have done so for a couple years now. And it was me taking a chance and saying, I’m interested in working with you. I think I would be a good fit. And so I think it’s not being afraid to hear. No, I love,
AJV (15:39):
Hear, love, hearing that.
NS (15:41):
I mean, you’re gonna hear no, I hear it all the time still. So don’t be, you know, don’t get upset if you hear a no, because that just means that’s not the right fit. And I’ve, you know, been able to work with some household names over the years and sometimes it simply is, you know, sending them a DM. Yeah. Cause I think that shows ins and a lot of people don’t,
AJV (16:00):
I think, I think a huge part of, and I speak for at least the brand builders group community that we work with. It’s like, I think people forget the art of outreach. It’s like don’t expect the you’re just going to have all these followers and people just come and find you, maybe that happens sometimes, but you actually need to do some good old fashioned sales outreach. Right. Email someone actually pick up the phone and call them, DM them, do the research pitch yourself. Right. Don’t forget that there is a, still a sale to be made here. So you’re still finding, so that’s a great question. I would know. How do you know when a brand is right for you and when you are right for a brand?
NS (16:38):
Yeah. Well, depending on the brand I’m working with, so let’s just say, okay, right now I have a couple collaborations going on with anthropology, which every year I make a list of five to 10 brands that I wanna work with this bucket list brand, you know, that’s been included, Lily Pulitzer, that’s included Disney, that’s included you know, different cruise lines. I mean literally the full spectrum, Nordstrom, Sephora, whatever it may be. And honestly I reached out to anthropology and said, listen, I have a ton of your items. Not only in my wardrobe, but in my home, my audience knows I’m all about color. I think, to be an absolute win. And I just kept kind of building that rapport. I would tag them in outfits that I wore. So they know it’s very organic. Yeah. And then they’re like, okay, wait a minute. Natasha actually is not only a customer, but she supports us. See, she talks about promotions we have or new arrivals or whatever that may be. So I think it’s just, you know, obviously continu putting that kind of bug in their ears so that you do come top of mind when they think about the add dollars that they have to
AJV (17:40):
Spend. Yeah. And it’s really just, it’s reaching out to people that you already love. Exactly. It’s who you’re already using, but I love what you said. It’s like, you make a target list of like, these are my bucket list, clients like this is, these are the brands I already love. I’m already using might as well have a partnership with them and we mutually benefit.
NS (17:58):
Exactly.
AJV (17:58):
Yeah. I love that. And
NS (18:00):
They’re looking, I mean, they’re actively looking, they have a group of people, these huge brands have people looking to find, you make it easy to find, find
AJV (18:07):
That’s right. That which is tagging them. Right.
NS (18:10):
Exactly. Don’t be ashamed. I mean, everyone starts with zero followers.
AJV (18:15):
Yeah. That’s so good. Well, and there’s that, there’s this rise of these micro influencers. Yep. Right. These people that kind of have like that 10 to 30, 10 to $40,000 followers. Yes. There’s a huge rise in the importance of it’s like, you don’t have to have huge followers to make huge incomes by just, not at all, having an engaged Royal following. Cause that millions doesn’t mean anything if they don’t have engagement. And
NS (18:40):
Exactly. And I think more and more, you know, brands are seeing the bots. You know, I was in Dallas a couple weeks ago with the brand and they were showing me how they have access to all of these influencers, statistics through a, you know, a platform that they subscribe to. And it was eyeopening to kind of hear how things are ranked and you know, the response time with these influencers and how many of their followers are real and brands are starting to see this and get really smart. So it makes me very happy to know that staying true and myself and being honest, you know, is definitely gonna pay off in the long run
AJV (19:13):
Preach. Always, always.
NS (19:15):
Exactly.
AJV (19:16):
So, I mean, and you said something too, that we talk about all the time, which is, you know, if you’re only building on social media, you’re building on rented real estate, the only real, the only virtual real estate you own is your blog, your website, your email list, right. Those are things that you own. And some tips to people who are going, I mean, I cannot tell you how many people I know who are like, what do you mean an email list? Like that’s so that’s so old school. I’m like no, no, it’s not. It’s the only thing that you really own. Right. Otherwise you’re just building Zuckerberg’s platform. Right. You’re,
NS (19:47):
You’re helping them more than we have already done. I think they’re good.
AJV (19:51):
Right. I think they think they have hit their, their peak. I think we’re good there. So some tips on how do you convert followers into email addresses?
NS (20:00):
You know, a lot of times I’ll simply ask, you know, how kinda you said, ask for the sale, simply say, Hey, I would love for you to sign up. A lot of times I have added content on I email newsletter that I don’t have anywhere else. So they feel like they’re getting something special. You know, I include all my special discount codes that I’ve worked in partnership with brands to have. I keep those live on my email newsletters. I talk about my target Thursday favorites there. And also I recap a lot of things going on in my life. So I kind of do a little bit more of a deep if so I think people wanna know if they know you on a personal level, but they wanna continue to know you and develop a better relationship of who you are. That’s when they always, you know, wanna do that. I’ll do giveaways to get them to sign up. You know, that’s easy and fun and everyone loves something free. So just little things here and there and I dabble it, but you know, I make it easy to subscribe on my website. I have a popup that comes when you go to hello, happiness blog.com. So you just have to make it overly easy for them to be a part of it because people will continue to ask,
AJV (21:03):
Well, you said three things that I’m gonna highlight that I think are really unique and really important to make sure everyone who is out there listening, you pay attention to this one is create unique content for your eing, right? It’s like if it’s just regurgitated information that they can get somewhere else, you know, it’s like, I think there is a huge trend right now of creating unique content for each platform versus taking one piece of content and displacing it and putting the same piece everywhere. It’s like, are you creating unique content for each platform? And then making it really unique, special content, you can get nowhere else, nowhere else for your email list. I love that. I think that’s so smart. Second thing is giveaways. So are you providing giveaways to make it enticing for someone to want to give you your email? So any quick tips on like, what are the best giveaways that you’ve ever done that made like a huge difference?
NS (21:59):
Oh goodness. Okay. So as you mentioned earlier, we have rental properties down in 38. And so a lot of what I try to do is I like to haul out a lot of small businesses. That’s something that I’ve done for years. It’s super important to me, it’s the backbone of our country. And so I partnered with a lot of Rosemary merchants and catering companies and wine distributors. And I gave away a stay at our Roia boat property for somebody to come and experience 30 a. And so we had the buy-in of all of those different communities and brands and shops. And so they were just thrilled, not only because of the, you know, potential income that they were getting from that new followers, new customers, new people on their websites. But then it was also giving back to my community and saying, thank you for being here and doing this. So that was probably one of the most successful and way. A lot of the items that I design I’ve, you know, collaborated with social threads on Nerine totes, I’ve created custom collections of swimwear for the family, with the Oaks. I’ve done accessory, concierge, jewelry collections. So a lot of times I’ll buy those for myself and then kind of put them aside for weekly or monthly engagement giveaways, just to say, give back and say, thanks
AJV (23:12):
Love those ideas. And it’s like the next time you do a giveaway for a free vacation on 38, me who
NS (23:19):
Doesn’t want that. So, and it really helps those small businesses and, you know, it’s, if there’s anything I can do, that’s one thing I like,
AJV (23:27):
I, I love that. And it’s due, it’s like, it’s finding ways to that compliments what you’re already doing. So everything is still so synergistic and so connected. I love that. And so, so I do have a question tactical, a tactical question. So you’re these giveaways, is it only for new email subscribers?
NS (23:45):
Sometimes it depends on what the specific brands I’m working with asks for not necessarily, but most of the time I try to do it to everybody. Who’s a part of my email,
AJV (23:56):
Their list, but that’s just great incentive of why you wanna be on there and stay on
NS (24:00):
There. Great.
AJV (24:02):
Yep. I love that such good. And then the third thing that you said that I think is just really important, I’m just gonna hit it home one more time. Is that make sure you’re actually building your email list. Right? All of these things don’t matter if the algorithm can change and leadership changes. I mean, that’s such a big deal. It’s such a big, so
NS (24:22):
Make sure, make it easy for them. Have it on a dropdown on your blog, having a dropdown on your, you know, Instagram bio on your Facebook group page. Literally every place they can find you, you need to have a way for them to subscribe.
AJV (24:34):
Love that. So good. All right. So last, just couple of questions. I know when we have like five more minutes together, but a last couple of quick questions and these are just personal, just for fun. What is your favorite thing to talk about? Like when you think about this, all the things that you can be talking about, is there one that just like pulls at your heart of like, man, I love it. When I get to do this,
NS (24:57):
I think, you know, every day I get on stories and I share optimistic quotes and positive things. And I think right now, even more than ever, there’s so much negativity. And if I can bring a smile to someone’s face with just some heartfelt words that I have found from Pinterest that morning, I think it really helps start people’s day out. So I do a morning coffee chat and people, you know, tune in by the thousands to see it. It’s not me doing a hashtag sponsored event. It’s not so fancy thing. It’s me, literally in my PJ is drinking a cup of coffee and that’s something where I feel like I really kind of build that rapport and that relationship. And it’s super important to me.
AJV (25:33):
Do you do it every day?
NS (25:35):
Every day?
AJV (25:36):
I mean, if
NS (25:36):
I don’t come on, people are like, Natasha, where are you? Do the girls get on the bus? OK. What’s going on? I mean, so it’s just, it’s not anything fancy. It’s just me.
AJV (25:46):
I love that, but it consistency,
NS (25:49):
Consistency. And that is key. Yes. You gotta train your audience about when you’ll be there. How many touch points, what are you posting each week? So I think it just always, you know, goes back to being consistent.
AJV (26:00):
Yeah. But it’s like consistency and training. I think that’s a really big deal, but you love doing the more inspirational C that you do it every morning,
NS (26:09):
Every morning and then showing color. I think that’s probably another thing that really separates me from the majority. If you were just scrolling through your Instagram feed of, you know, life and style bloggers, everything is so neutral and that is not my life
AJV (26:31):
I love that. I love that. So. Okay. Two other questions then I promise I’ll let you go. I love this what’s what’s one trend that you would say I see everyone else doing this, but I’m not gonna do it.
NS (26:45):
Oh gosh. Well, one kinda touches on what I just said about everything. Neutral, every home looking the same, I’m just over it. You know, I would have wallpaper in every single room in my house. If I could, my husband would want to kill me, but he knows he’s pretty much taken a backseat to all things, design and decor. So I do take risks when it comes to that stuff. And I love it. Another thing I am not a biker short person.
AJV (27:22):
But I will tell you, it’s a, like, I think the color like makes you pop. Like if you scrolling your feet, anytime you pop up, it’s like, it’s always like just bright and colorful and just it, you know, it’s like, hello, happiness is such a great title for you. It’s like, because everything you are is like so joyful and happy. But like a part of why I wanted to ask is because I think so much of what you’re saying, just rest with who you are and it really does come through. So if you were trying to just play with the trends that are popular, it would be, you know, inauthentic to just who you are. Yeah.
NS (27:52):
You gotta stay true to who you are and
AJV (27:54):
Including no bike shorts. So including
NS (27:57):
No bike shorts. So if you shorts, you can come at me because I guarantee you, this is gonna,
AJV (28:04):
I love that. I love that. Okay. This is my last question. And this is more of a tip for the listeners for anyone who’s listening, who’s going all right. I really, I wanna make that jump from just building my audience to actually monetizing my audience. What’s one thing that you would tell someone to do. Who’s just kind of like trying to figure out how do I Mo this thing that I’ve accidentally built. What’s the first thing that they should do.
NS (28:29):
First of all, I would find the top three things that you wanna post about so that you can have a niche. I think people get so disoriented with, oh my gosh. And having to put, you know, balls in each bucket, find three specific subject matter areas and focus on those. That would be my number one tip. My second tip would be really engaging with your followers.
AJV (28:53):
So good. It’s simple that it’s not right.
NS (28:56):
I know it’s not easy. And it’s something that I’m constantly having to work at. So it’s an ever evolving marketplace and that, but that also makes it fun. Yeah. Makes it not feel like work. And I love what I do. And so it doesn’t
AJV (29:09):
And boring.
NS (29:10):
No, it’s not. It’s never boring.
AJV (29:14):
Oh, this has been so good. Y’all if you, if you don’t know Natasha please go follow her. I would say I’m gonna drive you to hello, happiness blog.com. Sign up for email list, get some get some free tips. There
NS (29:28):
You go. Ask for the cell.
AJV (29:31):
I’ll help you with that. But from there you can check her out on Instagram, Pinterest, all the places, but hello, happiness, blog.com. We’ll put all of her social handles in the show notes. We’ll put the, the blog link in there too. You’re doing amazing stuff. Thank you so much for coming on. It’s dually exciting for me to get to learn from you and also do reconnect with an old friend. So thank you so much.
NS (29:55):
Likewise. Thank you guys so much for having me a means a lot.
AJV (29:58):
All right, everyone. We’ll catch you next time. I’m on the influential personal brand.