Karen: [00:00:00] When he’s about 18 months old, we took him to the doctor and after that he started putting his head through the [00:00:05] sheet rock at our house. Um, and just became very sick and lost all of his [00:00:10] milestones. He lost his ability to speak and just was so dysregulated. About a [00:00:15] year later, he went to a professional clinician and uh, she evaluated him and she [00:00:20] was very not warm and fuzzy, and she’s like, well, he has autism. He has classic [00:00:25] autism. He has 15 of the 16 markers. He’ll never play with other children. He won’t have any [00:00:30] friends. You’ll probably have to put him in a home when he grows up. Do you want a copy of the report? [00:00:35] So, Rory: whoa. Karen: Happy Tuesday. And so I, um, was devastated.[00:00:40] [00:00:45] [00:00:50] Rory: Hey, if you [00:00:55] hang around here, we talk about finding your uniqueness and [00:01:00] serving the person that you once were exploiting your uniqueness in the service of others. We believe that [00:01:05] if you have diluted focus, you get diluted results, and if you niche down and really focus [00:01:10] on serving the person, you, whoever you can, in the deepest way, you’ll build a great business.[00:01:15] A big personal brand. And today we’ve got a real life story of a brand builder, [00:01:20] a friend, and someone who is changing the industry and in many ways [00:01:25] changing the world. And she has done this exact thing. She has done what people [00:01:30] refuse to do. She has narrowed down, she has focused in, she has leaned in in it [00:01:35] in terms of serving a topic and a market. And her topic, when you hear this. [00:01:40] You’re gonna be like, whoa, that is very specific. And so I’m gonna actually [00:01:45] read this ’cause I don’t wanna get it wrong about what her real expertise is and, but I’ve [00:01:50] invited her on the show. We’re gonna talk about her story, about how she’s building her personal brand. Okay? So listen to this. [00:01:55] So Karen Mayer Cunningham is a nationally recognized special education. [00:02:00] Advocate, speaker and mediator with over two decades of experience guiding families and [00:02:05] educators and professionals through the complexities of special [00:02:10] education systems. So online, she is known as special education [00:02:15] boss, and this is such a narrow niche. So her expertise [00:02:20] is in. Idea IDEA, section 5 0 4 and [00:02:25] disability advocacy. So she has a clear commitment to ensuring equitable access and [00:02:30] meaningful outcomes for students with disabilities. So what does that mean? She [00:02:35] helps parents and teachers and schools and students who are struggling with disabilities.[00:02:40] To create individual educational plans. She’s the author of this brand new [00:02:45] book, the Epic IEP, which is available from none other than Mission [00:02:50] Driven Press. This woman is changing the world, dominating space and get this, [00:02:55] she has over a million followers online [00:03:00] in this very, very specific vertical. She’s a friend. She’s a delight. You [00:03:05] inspire me. Karen, thanks for being here. Karen: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Roy. Rory: So. [00:03:10] Tell us a story. You know, you, we say you’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once [00:03:15] were. I feel like you are. You are in so many ways, a living, [00:03:20] breathing, shining example of what we want to be about at Brand Builders Group and now Mission-Driven Press.[00:03:25] Tell us the story of how you got into this very [00:03:30] specific spot that you occupy. Karen: Sure. So I had, um, a perfect child. Um, [00:03:35] he was born, I think he got a nine on his Apgar at the hospital. I think that’s like an honor roll and [00:03:40] everything was great. And, um, when he’s about 18 months old, we took him to the doctor. Um, [00:03:45] after that he started putting his head through the sheet rock at our house. Um, and just [00:03:50] became very sick and, um, lost all of his milestones. He lost his ability to [00:03:55] speak, um, and just was so dysregulated. And we started this process of trying to find [00:04:00] out what was going on with him. And about a year later we went to a professional. [00:04:05] A professional clinician and uh, she evaluated him and she was very not warm and [00:04:10] fuzzy. And she’s like, well, he has autism. He has classic autism. He has 15 of [00:04:15] the 16 markers. He’ll never play with other children. He won’t have any friends. You’ll probably have to put [00:04:20] him in a home when he grows up. Do you want a copy of the report? So, Rory: whoa. Karen: [00:04:25] Happy Tuesday. And so I, um, was devastated. I knew there was something terribly, [00:04:30] terribly wrong. And Rory: you said this is like, he’s 18 months, like he’s not even two years old. Karen: He’s like two years old at this point. [00:04:35] And, um, you know, I was searching for answers and um, I remember getting in my car that day, [00:04:40] just devastated holding this report. And, um, I thought, you know, if me [00:04:45] and Oprah and God can figure this out, we’re gonna figure this out. Because there is [00:04:50] no way that is the destiny on his life. Like not with me being his mother. That can’t [00:04:55] possibly be true. And so we started the process and one of my friends told me that if [00:05:00] you’re speech delayed, um, you can start school as early as three. I was like, fantastic. [00:05:05] That’s what we’ll do. We took him, got him evaluated, he he met criteria and we send ’em across the [00:05:10] street with an original Lion King back. Lion King backpack. I’d like to say that and ’cause that’s what you do. [00:05:15] You send kids to school and they fix them. If there’s something wrong with them, they’ll just fix them. And so he [00:05:20] went to school and a few weeks later there was a knock at the door and my husband called me at [00:05:25] my salon. Um, and sometimes I’m humorous, so he said, I’m not kidding, [00:05:30] which is probably a good intro for me. And he said, there’s somebody here from Child Protective Services. [00:05:35] Uh, they’ve checked James for Marks because he’s been reported that we’re harming him. She would like to [00:05:40] talk to you. Is now a good time? Not your average phone call. [00:05:45] So I said, yeah, now’s a good time. And she was very aggressive. And she goes, do you think it’s normal that he rocks [00:05:50] all the time? No. Do you think it’s normal that he chew his fingers so they bleed? No. Do you think it’s normal that he lost [00:05:55] all of his language? No. Um, what are you gonna do about it? I said, well, we’re sending him to school for [00:06:00] preschool programs for kids with disabilities. Well, that’s what your husband said too. And I’m [00:06:05] gonna leave a brochure here in case we take him into custody. And that was my entrance in the mid [00:06:10] nineties, uh, to special education. As I was devastated that night, crying [00:06:15] my eyes out, I just had this resolve that this cannot be the chaos that we’re [00:06:20] walking through. And so, um, I went down, um, to the school like a lunatic [00:06:25] mother and, um, was, you know, crying and everybody’s looking at me like, I am a lunatic. And this is the [00:06:30] nineties. And nobody knew what, um, autism was. I remember somebody used to say, do you, does he count cards, [00:06:35] ma’am, that was a movie. No, we don’t take him to Vegas and have him count cards and a pull up. That’s that’s a [00:06:40] movie. Rory: Yeah. This, I mean that I feel like. You know, the world isn’t always getting better in [00:06:45] some ways, but, but back then, I think people have been a little more, sens have become more sensitive. Yes. But [00:06:50] back in the nineties it was like, Karen: yeah, Rory: they’re, these are jokes and I don’t care and you are slowing us [00:06:55] down and why are you here and what’s wrong with you? Karen: Absolutely. And so the tea, somebody [00:07:00] called us and reported us a second time and at that point I was like, we’re not doing this. And I drove down [00:07:05] to, um, the child protective offices and I don’t recommend that anybody do what I did. And I [00:07:10] had my cart and every mom and dad and grandparent with a kid with a disability. That what I’m talking about, you [00:07:15] know, your cart, it’s your cart of paperwork. And I just rolled it down there and I said, I wanna see my case [00:07:20] manager. Of course it’s not your case manager. And the police officer was like, okay. So we went up [00:07:25] to the elevator and I walked down the hall. My, um, you know, [00:07:30] representative from Child Protective Services and I think she might have been 22 years old in one day. And here [00:07:35] I am at her door and I said, do you know, know anything about [00:07:40] autism? And she said, um, I think when I was a sophomore, I had a [00:07:45] seminar. And I thought, are you my leader? And that was the first person that day [00:07:50] that ever gave me a resource. And she handed me a card for MHMR of Travis County. [00:07:55] And it’s an agency that helps with kids with disabilities. And I thought, why am I a [00:08:00] child protective service office? And the first person that resources me. Is this person [00:08:05] and I, um, started finding out information and, and connecting with our state board of [00:08:10] education and I just became in love with these kiddos in love with this law and in love with, [00:08:15] you know, helping parents. And, um, that’s how I got my entrance. I was, Rory: this started out of [00:08:20] desperation. This wasn’t a plan, this wasn’t a desire, this was a desperate [00:08:25] situation. Karen: Yeah, Rory: my son needs help. Karen: Absolutely Rory: nobody has. Where do [00:08:30] I go? What do I do? Karen: Yeah. There was no direction, there was no help. And I thought, you know, and, and it’s very shame [00:08:35] based when you have, often, when you have a child with a disability, parents are ashamed that [00:08:40] their child with a disability might be upsetting your birthday party or church service or [00:08:45] Christmas. Rory: Sure. Karen: Yeah. Rory: Um, so [00:08:50] you start this for your son, at which point [00:08:55] does it translate into. Oh, other people [00:09:00] are struggling with this and I could be useful to them. Karen: Just immediately, [00:09:05] just immediately. I thought that, remember at the beginning I thought these people at the school, they know what to [00:09:10] do and they’re plotting against me and they won’t do it. And the truth is, God [00:09:15] bless teachers, we love them. They went to school to teach. They went to school even to be special education [00:09:20] teachers. We as school districts do not train our most valuable resource in school [00:09:25] teachers about special education application obligations or duties. [00:09:30] There were just a bunch of nice people trying to help my son, but if we don’t know those [00:09:35] requirements, you might be handicapping a child even more. And I just, um, [00:09:40] began helping people and helping them get it right. It was really bumpy at the beginning. [00:09:45] Um, but what I always say is, when we get it right for the child, we get it right for everybody, and we can do that. [00:09:50] Rory: You were helping other parents? Karen: [00:09:55] Yes. Rory: And you were interfacing with the schools? Karen: Yes. Rory: And then the school boards, and [00:10:00] then at some point you start getting into these laws. Right. I mean, as I, as I understand, it’s like [00:10:05] there’s a very. Complex set of laws [00:10:10] that the average parent of a, a student with disabilities [00:10:15] cannot interpret, does not want to read, understand, and you kind of become [00:10:20] this bridge almost to go, Hey, here’s what this means. Here’s how to interpret this, [00:10:25] here’s how to use it. Is that. Karen: Absolutely. So, I mean, the federal statute [00:10:30] has been whittled down to 115 codes. If you’re ever, you know, having struggled, struggling to sleep at night, [00:10:35] just read the federal law, it’s so enjoyable and nobody has time to read it. And you know, it [00:10:40] happened 50 years ago, but it brings equity and it builds a bridge over the [00:10:45] barrier that is disabilities. Uhhuh. Rory: And then, and then what’s the. [00:10:50] How, how are you engaging with schools at this? Like at this point, like back then, or [00:10:55] even, are they receptive to you? Are they like not, Hey, you’re not one of us. Like, [00:11:00] how did that all Karen: happen? You know, I thought they were gonna be receptive. Well, we [00:11:05] right, and we thought there’d be an easier, softer way. We were wrong. I remember, I always tell God that I wanted to be [00:11:10] popular and he said no, I was really looking for effective. And I was, no, I was going for popular [00:11:15] because I’m coming into an agency, a bureaucracy. Um, and they do things a [00:11:20] certain way, Rory: right? Karen: And if I bring you in in January and we want funding for your child [00:11:25] for disabilities, all that money was spent July 1st of the fiscal year.[00:11:30] The money’s not there, the hands aren’t there, the services aren’t there. And [00:11:35] so people were getting a child’s individualized education program, but it was very [00:11:40] baseline. It didn’t have specificity, it wasn’t tied to the child’s unique circumstances. [00:11:45] And so, you know, my job is to walk alongside parents. I don’t think there’s a greater honor than to walk [00:11:50] alongside a child’s educational healing and make sure that what we provide to them in an [00:11:55] epic IEP changes their life for the next 80 years. Rory: [00:12:00] So when did this become professional, I guess? You know, it’s like it starts [00:12:05] personal. People start asking, you’re kind of like sticking your nose in places, getting stuff done, [00:12:10] knocking down walls. Karen: Yeah. Rory: And then at some point it tips into like. [00:12:15] This is, this is my, not just, it’s a calling and it’s a career. When did that, [00:12:20] when did that happen? Karen: Probably about 2010. And you know, I always, Rory: okay, so this is like [00:12:25] 15, 20 years later. Karen: Yes. And it’s one of those things I couldn’t not do it [00:12:30] right. And that’s how you know what you’re supposed to do. Like you just couldn’t not do it. If this wasn’t a [00:12:35] vocation, I would still want to equip teams and parents and [00:12:40] advocates serving kiddos. I couldn’t get it outta my bones. Rory: So you started your own business [00:12:45] right out of the gate. At this point you’re like, other people need and so and so your [00:12:50] son now is. Out of the school system. Yeah. Right, right. So, so that happens and you realize, [00:12:55] okay, there’s a need here. Karen: Yes. Rory: And I can do this. And so is special education boss [00:13:00] born right away, 2010 And like, Karen: we didn’t call it that, but yes, they invented [00:13:05] this thing called social media. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It’s on the interweb. Um, it was more of a [00:13:10] panic. I wanted people, the masses to know the truth. And there’s so [00:13:15] much misinformation in schools about special education. It’s not malicious. Just [00:13:20] as Bob was trained by Carol, who was trained by Terry, who was trained by John, none of [00:13:25] them know anything about special education law and they’re just sort of lumbering through it. And [00:13:30] the specificity, that specificity that you get with an epic IP changes a child’s [00:13:35] entire life. It gives a family hope and it gives a child a future. And I think often [00:13:40] we don’t consider children with disabilities equal ROI on our investment. [00:13:45] You know, kids with disabilities are probably not going to be a school board meeting photo op, [00:13:50] but you know what, those children have the same value as any other child. Rory: [00:13:55] So did you get on social media right away? Is that where this all kind of Karen: started? I think I was looking back and um, [00:14:00] my original email was Karen Haha, mayor, 2000 at Yahoo. I, [00:14:05] I felt like that had a flow to it and, um. I just, yeah, I was just sort of, you know, [00:14:10] the mouth of the south and I still am. I’m like, that’s not true. This isn’t true. This [00:14:15] happened at my meeting. This is how you shut it down. And hopefully I’m a little more refined now Rory: on [00:14:20] social though. Karen: Oh yeah. If I’ve got something to say, I’m just gonna say it. Uhhuh. Yeah. I don’t make it pretty and [00:14:25] pristine. I make it powerful. Rory: Okay, so, so you were early to social media. Karen: Yes. Rory: [00:14:30] Did you ever think you would have. Million followers? No. Karen: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, [00:14:35] no. And it really exploded Friday, February 13th, 2020. [00:14:40] Our governor came on the news and he said schools were closed down for the pandemic. And in that moment I [00:14:45] realized that I was unemployed. That’s what I do. I go into school district two and three times a day [00:14:50] serving families in person. I represent the the family with a child with disability. And we go into the school and have [00:14:55] the meeting and I was like, oh my gosh, now I’m bankrupt. Unemployed. And my two [00:15:00] boys went down to Ace Hardware and they got me this thing called an ethernet cord. I don’t know if they have ’em here in [00:15:05] Nashville, but it takes the ether and the net and then their one accord. And then I was like, go tell it [00:15:10] on a mountain. And I would go live every week night at nine o’clock because I felt like that’s a good time [00:15:15] with a little extra concealer. And I was like, we’re not doing this. We’re not doing this. And then it [00:15:20] just opened this bridge for me to serve families across the nation. Rory: Okay. So, but that’s like 10 years [00:15:25] later. So. So you’re saying for 10 years you were serving families like [00:15:30] one at a time. Karen: Drive to this school district, drive to this junior high. You can [00:15:35] Pringles get to this school district, have a Red Bull, do it again tomorrow, Rory: and the, and the parents are hiring you. Karen: [00:15:40] Yes. Schools are not wanting me to come in and, you know, turn over the [00:15:45] apple cart for some reason. Rory: So the parents are hiring you to help navigate and apply the [00:15:50] law, make sure the school’s applying the law, create a plan, right. For their kid. And that’s absolutely, but then when [00:15:55] schools get shut down, you’re like. Oh, well that just disappeared overnight. And that’s really when you [00:16:00] leaned into the, to, to social and the internet. Karen: No, it, it, it didn’t disappear. It exploded it. So [00:16:05] now I’m serving families in the Kodiak Islands and Miami-Dade County on the same day. Rory: What you knew [00:16:10] up until that point Karen: Yeah, Rory: absolutely. Was like gone. Karen: Yes. Rory: And then all of a sudden [00:16:15] it’s like, oh, it’s not gone. Yeah. It actually just exploded. Karen: Yeah. Yeah. Rory: And that’s ’cause you like grabbed the [00:16:20] microphone and the ethernet cable, but like. You still didn’t have a business. So did you have a, I [00:16:25] mean, you didn’t have a business, your business model was Karen: My business model gone, was like, I’m just gonna tell all these people. And [00:16:30] then I started doing these little, um, trainings inside of a LaQuinta [00:16:35] on the freeway and you know, eight or five people would come. Rory: Three. Great speaker has a LaQuinta story. No, Karen: LaQuinta. Yeah. [00:16:40] That’s a Rory: part of the Karen: Yeah. Yeah. No food. But, um, burnt coffee. Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:45] Rory: So you were hosting trainings? Yeah. Okay. So, so you’re on social, so your whole business model now [00:16:50] is gone. Karen: Yeah. Rory: Um. You take the mic, you start [00:16:55] talking, and then you realize, okay, I’m just gonna start selling. You are already doing a business [00:17:00] to consumer model. Karen: Right? Rory: And then you just thought, okay, I’m gonna basically do more of like an [00:17:05] education versus like a, like a consulting kind of relationship. Karen: Right? So I wanna train other special education bosses. [00:17:10] There’s eight and a half million children in America with an IEP. We need advocates. [00:17:15] Advocates don’t exist for kids with disabilities. We need them. And so I’d go train, you know, eight [00:17:20] people on the weekend with my binder that was 74 inches tall. ’cause I’d love a printout. Rory: [00:17:25] Mm-hmm. Karen: And they were like, oh, this is overwhelming. I can’t do it. I was like, why not? What’s overwhelming about it? [00:17:30] And so everything that I like is big, but if you are gonna serve people, people do not buy what they need. [00:17:35] People buy what they want. Rory: Sure. Karen: And if you don’t know what they want and are able to give it to ’em [00:17:40] in ways that are palpable and actionable, then you’ve just motivated them. Right. [00:17:45] Information. Um, with no application is motivation. I don’t wanna motivate you, I want to equip you. [00:17:50] So I worked on refining that, which is, is that I do for training. [00:17:55] Rory: So, so what’s your business, what’s your actual business model today? Because I, again, part of the [00:18:00] story, the story is just inspiring what you do and, and who you do it for.[00:18:05] Also, I think it’s such a great example of how anybody [00:18:10] who has been faced with pain a problem, a setback, [00:18:15] you know, a heartache. Like I don’t think you would’ve designed your life initially to [00:18:20] say, oh, my son’s gonna have autism. We’re gonna struggle through this. But then there’s this beautiful [00:18:25] movement that comes out of it. Yeah. Um. You’ve turned that into a movement and [00:18:30] into a business, uh, impact and income. So then, so then what, what was the business model? [00:18:35] Was it just classes? Like basically you’re going on social and you’re saying, buy a ticket. Come, come to this class and [00:18:40] I’ll teach you the system. Karen: Yeah. I’ll, I’ll make you a MiniMe. Yes. And that was, it was not, it [00:18:45] was, you know, it’s hard to lumber through families with a child with a disability that want, might wanna be [00:18:50] an advocate. It’s hard for them to get a babysitter. It just had a lot of, you know, barriers. And [00:18:55] so, um, you know, I started Special Education Academy about five years ago and [00:19:00] I just said, well, I’ll go live every Monday night. I’ll just go live. I always like say these things and I’m like, oh, who’s gonna do [00:19:05] that? That’d be you, Karen. And so I’ve gone live every Monday night for five [00:19:10] years and it’s an hour training. Special education academy that has a good ring to it. [00:19:15] Right. And I thought all of these parents would log on and join the academy. That did not happen. Rory: [00:19:20] Huh? Karen: 75% of the people that I train are school employees. Rory: [00:19:25] Wow. Karen: For this big mouth college dropout. Rory: So [00:19:30] there’s several things there. Karen: Yeah. Rory: You are saying, first of all, you’ve been going [00:19:35] live. Karen: Mm-hmm. Rory: For an hour. Karen: One hour Rory: for free, Karen: for free. [00:19:40] Every, it’s not, it’s not free. So the Academy is a membership? Rory: Ah, Karen: yeah. The Academy is a membership. It’s [00:19:45] $97 a month, but it’s live an hour, about an hour and a half every Monday. Rory: So it’s [00:19:50] 97 bucks. Mm-hmm. But they, you put four hours of live training every month. Yeah. And you’re [00:19:55] addressing topics and Karen: S series. We archive them. Now there’s over 400 hours of [00:20:00] pass trainings. We open it up for questions. Whatever question you’re having, because every seven days you [00:20:05] need some support in special education. ’cause this is not like, oh, we’re gonna go look for a car, we’re gonna look for a [00:20:10] house. It’s an emergency room. Mm-hmm. Special education’s the emergency room. We have to get it right right [00:20:15] now. Rory: Um, and so that there, there it is. So that’s the business [00:20:20] model is a hundred bucks a month. Usually Karen: go live for an hour, four times a month. [00:20:25] It’s so simple. People are like, no, no, but really what do you do? I go live, and you know what Rory, I don’t wanna say this to [00:20:30] everybody, but it’s on an Android. I use an Android ’cause I’m not gonna celebrate the fall of the Garden [00:20:35] of Eden, but that’s another training on a $50 Joby. I go live on my phone. I [00:20:40] don’t edit it, I don’t cut it. I don’t know how to do all that. I don’t know how to put something in the chat, but I do know [00:20:45] how to bring a message to people that are desperate for these truths. Rory: Come on. [00:20:50] So they, so then how do you. What system do you [00:20:55] use for to collect their money? And like where, where are they going live? Because you’re not, so I was thinking you were [00:21:00] going live on social. You’re not doing that. Karen: It’s a Zoom platform, right? It’s a Zoom. So you join, so you go to [00:21:05] Special Education Academy, you go to training, you join us, Rory: and then you start email ’em. Here’s the link for this week.[00:21:10] Karen: Yeah, it’s very fancy Rory: Uhhuh. Karen: Yes. Rory: Um, that’s amazing. Karen: [00:21:15] It’s very, Rory: and you just start doing, and then people come and go, like Karen: do Rory: their month Karen: in, goes out. Yes. And sometimes, you know, if it’s a July 4th or [00:21:20] something, I might take off too. It’s like I miss them, they miss me. We are this amazing family [00:21:25] that resources each other. We can trust each other. Um, ’cause there’s a lot of [00:21:30] mistrust between families and school districts and it’s about bad [00:21:35] information. It’s not about being malice, right. It’s bad information. We don’t know. There’s a [00:21:40] reason that surgeons don’t operate on their own child. Right? And here we [00:21:45] all are, are trying to make up something and fill out software. It’s not about software, it’s about [00:21:50] a student. Right. And so the reason I wrote the book is it’s the seven pillars [00:21:55] that I use, whether it’s my child or any other child or any of the thousands of advocates that I’ve [00:22:00] trained nationally, that after you have this, you could literally take a piece of paper and write the IEP, [00:22:05] right? And we were so busy checking boxes in software, we forgot that this [00:22:10] plan is as important as a prescription. When you have a prescription, it doesn’t say, just [00:22:15] grab a handful when you feel like it. It’s very specific for your need. [00:22:20] Epic IP is super specific for that child’s need, Rory: and [00:22:25] so it’s a, it’s a consistent system. Karen: Yeah. Rory: That creates a customized plan for [00:22:30] each family. Each student, Karen: yeah. Rory: As they go through this, how do [00:22:35] you get the clients. How do you, what’s your, what, what’s the, what’s [00:22:40] the sales process like? Karen: It’s no sales. Say it with me. There’s no sales [00:22:45] process. There’s no team, there’s no outbound, there’s no inbound. It’s just, [00:22:50] it’s speed and volume. I, I heard this guy a few years ago, you might have heard of him, Gary Vaynerchuk. [00:22:55] He was talking to this other guy, Mr. Wonderful, and he said in 2021, if you are not on [00:23:00] TikTok, you are an idiot. And I’m a lot of things. Idiots, not one of them. And so [00:23:05] I just started going live and now we put out 52 pieces of content every [00:23:10] 24 hours across seven platforms. Because you know what? [00:23:15] People need the information. I could spend time, I guess, making it fancy and pretty [00:23:20] and fade in and out in a carousel and drop this. People just need the information and people care [00:23:25] about two things, good audio and phenomenal content. Hmm, and so many [00:23:30] people that I would love to help grow their businesses are so busy. Getting ready to get ready [00:23:35] and perfect is never done, and done is never perfect. And whatever your message is. [00:23:40] People need it now. Not when you’ve got it all shiny and pretty. [00:23:45] Rory: So you are going live on social to attract, yeah. To build, to [00:23:50] build the customer base. Karen: Absolutely. Yeah. Rory: Okay. So you went, so what’s that? What’s that schedule look like? Karen: [00:23:55] Every Monday for an hour at 5 45 Central standard time I go live [00:24:00] on TikTok. On my Android because I don’t know how to make it work on a laptop. [00:24:05] And then one of my, uh, partners is on a Zoom link on another laptop. She [00:24:10] reads the questions on the live for TikTok ’cause they come fast and I answer them question, [00:24:15] answer, question, answer, question, answer. ’cause that’s about all people can tolerate. Question, [00:24:20] answer, and we get about 22 to 29,000 people every Monday [00:24:25] night popping in and out. Rory: 20,000 people every Monday [00:24:30] just popping in with a question. Karen: Well, they pop in and out of your live, but when we close it out, we have over a [00:24:35] hundred questions still not answered because that’s what people want. They need their an question answered [00:24:40] right now. And so then I have a VA and she cuts it up, question, answer, question, [00:24:45] answer, and we post that. And so probably in an hour I can [00:24:50] answer 80 questions. Rory: You’re doing a one hour live on Monday [00:24:55] night for free. That’s just an open q and a for the whole world. That is free. Karen: Free. Rory: And [00:25:00] then that. Points to buying the, a monthly subscription with a, a more [00:25:05] closed Karen: program. Yeah. Well, it’s, we don’t have to buy it. You can just join the academy for free. Of course. It’s free, it’s free for [00:25:10] everybody. Even my first husband. So, um, you just go to Special Education Academy and you join us for a [00:25:15] month. It’s free. If you wanna stay, we’re glad to have you. Rory: Oh, okay. So the first month you give the first month free. Karen: [00:25:20] Yeah. Yeah. Rory: And then after that they, they start paying. Karen: Yeah. And so we go live at about 6:00 PM [00:25:25] and then I say, I’ll see you guys in the academy at eight. It’s a very complex [00:25:30] model. I don’t know if you understood that. We go live at six and then I say, I’ll see you at eight in the [00:25:35] academy. You probably wanna write that down. Save this. So yeah, and then now it’s [00:25:40] progressed and we have a VIP at 7:00 PM for people that are full-time advocates that have taken our [00:25:45] other products, bought our digital courses. We have a two day course, we have a six week mastermind [00:25:50] for people that want to use our processes, protocols, and pathways to be amazing. [00:25:55] And you know, the need just keeps growing. Rory: So you’re, you’re serving a, a, a [00:26:00] segment of that, of those customers in a deeper way. Karen: Yes. Rory: But, but the main thing is just free [00:26:05] live and then see it eight a simple monthly, like, hop on here and come on, rock and roll. Surely it didn’t [00:26:10] start with 20,000 people. So that’s built, built up. That’s built it, built up, built up over, [00:26:15] over time. I think that’s so fascinating. I mean, that’s just such a simple [00:26:20] model. Karen: It’s the same model. We didn’t, we didn’t change it because if it works, you should probably keep [00:26:25] doing it. Rory: Uhhuh. Karen: Yeah, Rory: but it just, the, the, the idea that you can just go live [00:26:30] and, I mean, Karen: yeah, Rory: there’s no team. There’s no, it’s like you have a phone Karen: with the, the app. [00:26:35] I’m a one-armed wallpaper hanger. Houston, Texas. I make sure that I have plenty of hairspray and of course, the correct [00:26:40] lipstick and just answer their questions. People are desperate in this space. Whatever space [00:26:45] you’re serving, they need your knowledge. They don’t need fancy and shiny. They [00:26:50] need your help. Now, Rory: can I, okay, so here’s a emotional [00:26:55] fear question. Karen: Mm-hmm. Rory: I know there’s a lot of people listening who do [00:27:00] something where they feel guilty charging for it. Karen: Mm-hmm. [00:27:05] Rory: Because they go. I just want to help people. I just wanna serve people, [00:27:10] but. I need to make money, but like also I feel weird charging. [00:27:15] It’s like I work in a church and I can’t tell, or I help people with their marriage or, um, have you ever [00:27:20] had any of that? Like, and how do you get, how do you get past that where you’re like, Hey, I’m, I’m helping, I mean, [00:27:25] I’m helping kids with disabilities. Like, but you, you, I mean, you’re also not charging [00:27:30] a ton of money, but has any of that ha like how. Navigating that. It’s Karen: funny that you said that. ’cause my husband used to always say, [00:27:35] is this a PM or an fm? Is this a paid ministry or a free ministry? Right. [00:27:40] And so I have, um, if you just go to my Instagram account, I have 10,000 pieces [00:27:45] of content. So I’ve been giving away and I will continue to give away. I love doing [00:27:50] that. But people that pay, pay attention. Um, and so this [00:27:55] drives. It helps people wherever they are. Um, you know, I’ve spoken at [00:28:00] churches before and people are like, are you charging us for prayer? No. The prayer’s free with purchase, right? [00:28:05] I’m charging you for my expertise and time. That would be very normal when you go get your car [00:28:10] worked on or talk to your realtor. You’re paying for their expertise and time. [00:28:15] So, um, it’s grown into a business. I have full-time partners now. I educate [00:28:20] advocates, I do professional developments. We go into juvenile justice centers, hospitals. [00:28:25] The need is endless, and I’m doing my very best to serve them at the highest [00:28:30] level. Rory: How do you draw the line between what you give away for free and what [00:28:35] you charge for in the academy? Karen: Um, I, there’s no line. Hopefully one day we’re putting out 200 pieces of [00:28:40] content a day. It is my good pleasure to serve somebody. That [00:28:45] was where I was. You know, I, I get to go a lot of places and travel and when somebody comes up to [00:28:50] you and goes, are you sp? And I’m like, yes, I am. She goes, would it be really weird if I took a picture [00:28:55] with you? I’m like, well, you’re crying in public, so get over here. Right? So when we go somewhere and [00:29:00] somebody is. I am a mom from Michigan, and I did what you said in the videos, and it was a [00:29:05] bumpy meeting, but I held my position and now my daughter’s reading. Like, that’s everything. [00:29:10] I mean, you can’t outgive, God, I can’t outgive, you know, the, I would, I would never [00:29:15] forget what he’s done for me and my family. Um, and it’s a blessing to walk in this space. It’s [00:29:20] very polarizing. People either adore or adore you or they’re recalled by you. [00:29:25] I’ll take ’em both. If you’re gonna be online, you are going to be loved and not loved. [00:29:30] Get over it. You’re not that big of a deal. Rory: Yeah. How do you, I mean, you know, you talk about, [00:29:35] you talk about God, you talk about Jesus, you say, I, I, you know, I, I we’re gonna do this. We’re not gonna [00:29:40] do that. You’re very direct. Do you not, you just [00:29:45] don’t worry about haters. They don’t bother you. Like, what’s the, I mean, how do you [00:29:50] deal with that? Karen: So, I’m semi grown and I’m, I’m 60.1 years old, heavy on the [00:29:55] 0.1. People are going to like you or not like you. That has nothing to do with me. [00:30:00] My job is to get up every day and try to walk through with the spirit of excellence, and I’m gonna try to do a little bit better [00:30:05] tomorrow. People are hurting. That’s why they type. But if that’s going to stop [00:30:10] you from giving out your message, then you’ve already lost. The [00:30:15] accolades and the put downs. Neither one of them are probably really accurate, but I know that if I get up [00:30:20] every day doing what God’s called me to do, that I can put my head down on my pillow and know it’s been a good [00:30:25] day. Rory: This is so cool. And there’s, I know there’s people listening right now that go I, I. You [00:30:30] know, I have what they might think is a very random or, you know, narrow specific [00:30:35] thing. Karen: Yeah. Rory: And it’s like there’s so many people in the world, like you can access them at the push of a button. [00:30:40] Like push the button, go life. There’s Karen: a button at the bottom, it says, plus that means you’re adding to somebody’s life. [00:30:45] Yeah, Rory: I love that. Karen: But you’re so busy thinking you’re attractive. You know what’s [00:30:50] attractive about you, the anointing on your life and the way you share your [00:30:55] message. That’s what’s attractive. Rory: So. Why did you join [00:31:00] Brand Builders Group? Like, how did you, like, how did you find us? Where were you? Because like you, [00:31:05] you’re, you are crushing it and, uh, I mean, you got way more followers than I do. Like you, [00:31:10] you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re living this purpose. Yeah. You’re helping people. You’re making [00:31:15] money. What was like, how did you even. Karen: Hear about us. Yeah. Shout out to Omar l [00:31:20] Tari. Rory: Oh yeah. Karen: Uh, he’s amazing. And he is amazing. I had downloaded on my Android, um, [00:31:25] a video. Then you can watch it on the, on the plane. And I watched your video and I thought. [00:31:30] This is who I’m supposed to work with. I don’t know this guy, but this is who I’m supposed to work with. And, uh, I [00:31:35] got on a call and I joined and it’s just been like a perfect puzzle piece. [00:31:40] And it was exactly the, um, masterclass and information. But the other thing is [00:31:45] you hold us to a high accountability. This is not some cheerleading group. We’re not some fun [00:31:50] club. And it’s about you want us to get to work and, um. I love the [00:31:55] accountability that comes with having my monthly strategist, um, because we don’t know if we [00:32:00] get tomorrow. You need to put your head down and get to work. And this was the first [00:32:05] group that I’d ever been a part of and I’ve been a part of amazing groups and masterminds and phenomenal [00:32:10] thought leaders and influencers and negotiators and business people. But this was the first [00:32:15] time that I was like, you need to be big, be grown up and finish what you [00:32:20] said you were gonna do. Rory: You know, I, as you’re talking, it is occurring to [00:32:25] me that I think a lot of programs are structured towards, [00:32:30] like, how do you make money fast or how do you grow fast? Karen: Yeah. Rory: And I think you and I [00:32:35] share a similar orientation that it’s not about that it’s going.[00:32:40] The clock is ticking on the people who need help and they need help right now. Like I’m [00:32:45] driven by that same urgency. Mm-hmm. Like the urgency is not like, how do we make money today? It [00:32:50] like, it’s going like, there’s somebody out there and I don’t know how long I’m gonna be [00:32:55] here, and they need help right now. Karen: Right. Rory: And every moment that passes that I am not [00:33:00] getting in front of them and helping them. It’s like I, I feel like I’m, I feel like I’m [00:33:05] underutilizing my life. Like I’m, I’m literally. Abandoning y you [00:33:10] know, my anointing. Yeah. I’m, I’m not, and and I we do share that. Karen: [00:33:15] Yeah. Rory: And Karen: I remember Rory: have that. Karen: Yeah. And we started the book process, um, and, you know, [00:33:20] amazing team at Mission-Driven Press. And, um, we had, um, some. Pieces that [00:33:25] I needed to finish. And, um, somebody said we could push it back another 60 days and I said, we [00:33:30] cannot push it back another 60 days. Whoever is supposed to receive this amazing love [00:33:35] story that I wrote them, this amazing testament, they need to have it right now. Rory: Look at this thing, the epic [00:33:40] IEP, a powerful playbook for parents, educators, [00:33:45] and advocates navigating the special education process. This is [00:33:50] so clear. So specific. Um, you [00:33:55] know, you know, one of our big philosophies is the moment you become clear on who you’re serving, like [00:34:00] every other downstream decision becomes clear. And, and I’m just, I’m amazed because it’s just like, [00:34:05] this is just, I mean, I know there’s 8 million, you said 8 million kids in the us Karen: just in the US Rory: alone. Now you [00:34:10] have a big international audience, but like thousands of people are pre-ordering this book. Yes. [00:34:15] And it’s, it’s like. There’s not a lot of books on the, I mean, there’s not, not a lot of [00:34:20] books on the subject. There’s, Karen: there’s actually none. So there’s two kinds of books in this space, which I [00:34:25] love. There’s law books and evaluation books and protocols and rah, rah, rah, that are hundreds [00:34:30] of pages long. And then there are books about the parent versus the school. There are not [00:34:35] two sides of this table. There is one side, there’s a child with exceptionalities [00:34:40] that need some services at school to be an amazing, ridiculously amazing adult.[00:34:45] We can do that when we do, when we write an epic IEP. Rory: Yeah. That’s the other thing. I mean that, that, [00:34:50] that phrase that you say, you got it on the cover here. This is so cool. So hiding behind the, hiding behind the cover. [00:34:55] When we get it right for the child, we get it right for everyone. That is the other thing [00:35:00] about just the service orientation of this. Yes. To go like. [00:35:05] Stop being afraid of what people are gonna say about you. Stop [00:35:10] being concerned about getting the, the editing. Perfect. Stop. Yes. None of that [00:35:15] has to do with helping the child. None of that has to do with you helping your customer. And [00:35:20] it’s like when you stay focused on serving that audience, it’s like. [00:35:25] The rest just comes out and there’s an audience for everything. There’s bodies for Karen: everything. There’s audience for everything. I remember when I first [00:35:30] started with brand builders and my strategist, who’s ridiculously amazing, Casey Doddle, and he said, [00:35:35] I love you, but. Your website? How do people find you? I’m like, I don’t know. [00:35:40] I don’t know. I didn’t have a great website. I didn’t have a great message. I didn’t have a landing page. I didn’t have a [00:35:45] funnel. I don’t know what those things are. Um, I had a back comb and some hairspray, but when you have a [00:35:50] passionate mission. That you are being authentic. People will find you, they will [00:35:55] search you out. And how selfish to take your, your message to the grave. [00:36:00] Rory: All right, I have two last questions. Well, three. Okay, so, so one, I wanna talk about [00:36:05] your expertise for just a second. If there happens to be somebody listening who. [00:36:10] Is involved in a school or a family or a situation where there is [00:36:15] a child with disabilities and they’re living through that right now. What is the kind of the one biggest [00:36:20] encouragement that you would have that you go, you just need to know this, like as you’re [00:36:25] stepping in. You know, you’ve now lived this personally. You’ve [00:36:30] walked through it with other parents, you helped other schools advocates, like, Karen: yeah. Rory: What does that [00:36:35] person need to know if they’re sort of in that moment that you were, when you first kind of got the news? Karen: [00:36:40] Yeah, you are. You’re doing fine. You’re doing a great job. God placed this child in front of you, [00:36:45] in your class, God placed this child, um, that you’re the principal of this child and God. [00:36:50] Place this child in your home to raise and stop beating yourself up. Kids [00:36:55] don’t come with instruction books. If they did, I left all three of mine at the hospital. You know, [00:37:00] parents of a child with a disability have an 88% chance of getting divorced. Rory: Oh man. Karen: And so [00:37:05] the great thing about this thing called Online Connection and you know, um, [00:37:10] reach, is that now we have a community for families with disabilities that had no community. If you and I [00:37:15] have a child and something goes wrong with a tennis coach, we are down there at the field house. People with a [00:37:20] child with a disability, they can’t leave, they can’t go somewhere. And now we have this community [00:37:25] to resource and equip each other and let them know. Mama, you’re doing a great job, grandma. You’re doing [00:37:30] a phenomenal job. New teacher. Thank you so much for serving kids at the highest level. Rory: [00:37:35] Where do you want people to go to get a copy of the Epic IEP? Karen: I want you to go [00:37:40] wherever you get books and get one for you and get one for a friend and get a box of Kleenex. [00:37:45] There’s some emotional stories in there. At the end of every chapter, there’s a checklist for parents and advocates and [00:37:50] educators, because we are all at the table, but we have a different expertise and purview.[00:37:55] But I say unequivocally, this book is going to change your life. Rory: All right, so then [00:38:00] my last little question for you is. What would you say to the mission-driven messenger out there? [00:38:05] Who feels the calling but is struggling with the like, [00:38:10] I don’t like social media. I don’t wanna sell to people. I don’t, [00:38:15] I’m not. Sure. Like I, I don’t know how to write a book. I don’t know. I don’t know what the, all [00:38:20] I know is I have a calling, but I don’t know how to do anything else, and I don’t know how to do anything of what all the rest [00:38:25] of this is. I just have a calling, but I’m struggling to like, get it [00:38:30] out there, whatever that means. Karen: Make a commitment that you are the six o’clock news. [00:38:35] Just do the news. If you don’t wanna go live, record it on Zoom, record it on something, [00:38:40] but put it out there. You can, you can build the plane while you’re flying it. And [00:38:45] I, I, I, I, I doesn’t sound like it’s about somebody else. It’s about you. This isn’t about [00:38:50] you. The gift that is inside of you, the messages inside of you was never for you. [00:38:55] It is for somebody else. And, and you just need to make the [00:39:00] commitment and not waiver from that. And I would say respectfully, stop treating this as a [00:39:05] business. That’s the biggest malarkey on the, on the, on the internet. Treat this as your job.[00:39:10] ’cause if you don’t show up at your job, you are fired. If you treat this as a [00:39:15] job and make the commitment and don’t waver waffle or water it down, the reach [00:39:20] that you’ll have and the way that you bless people will be, uh, limitless. [00:39:25] Rory: Karen, I’m, for whatever it’s worth. I’m so proud of you. Karen: Thank you. Rory: Uh, [00:39:30] you, you know, I think you haven’t been in Brandville as that long, right? Like [00:39:35] six months, 16 months. Yeah. But, but you have this knack for, I’m gonna find a [00:39:40] way over, under, around, through. And like, even in your personal life, I think this journey has really shaped and [00:39:45] cultivated that in you. If you’re just like, I’m just not gonna be stopped. Yeah. Like, I’ll find, I’m gonna [00:39:50] find a way and I love that. And, and I, I love. [00:39:55] Your orientation towards service Yes. Karen: Is Rory: so pure. Karen: Yeah. Rory: And I, [00:40:00] I love the sense of urgency that you have. Yes. Karen: Yes. Rory: Of the people who need [00:40:05] to, who need your help. Karen: They need it. Yesterday and, and even when I’m training people [00:40:10] and I have lots of diverse people that I train, I love, love, love them all. I’m obsessed with [00:40:15] people. I’m sort of the. Cocker spaniel Octopus. If I like you, you’re like, oh, that’s a lot of Karen. And the [00:40:20] first thing that I say in my trainings, and some of them are quite the investment. If you are not here [00:40:25] to serve the IEP committee, please know that that’s fine, but please get a full [00:40:30] refund because I train people that are there to serve the IEP committee. Rory: [00:40:35] Well my friend, we are encouraged by you. I personally am inspired by you. Go get a copy of the [00:40:40] epic IEP, everybody. And, uh, Karen, thanks for the inspiration and the [00:40:45] insights and uh, keep going friend. Karen: Thank you [00:40:50] [00:40:55] [00:41:00] dear.