Stephen: [00:00:00] Hey guys. Welcome back to the show. As you know, we always set ourselves apart by bringing you amazing guests, world class thought leaders that do world class things, but more importantly, help others do world class things. Our special guest today is none other than Rory Vaden, New York Times bestselling author, world class speaker. He is co-founder of the Brand Builders Group and a entity that I personally partner with myself over the number of years. To make sure that I’m trying to do my impact and also become one of his mission driven messengers. Rory Vaden. Dude, welcome back to Build Man. So good to see you, man. It’s Rory: good to, good to be with you in person. Yes. I don’t think we’ve ever done an in-person podcast interview. No, Stephen: this is the first No, I’m digging it. I’m digging it. That’s good. So, hey, like, I’m wanna jump straight in. We got get, you’re a very busy man nowadays. You got a lot of attention. Uh, you’re doing a lot of book launches, you’re doing a lot of personal branding. You are the thank you ma, as far as far as I’m concerned. Rory: Thank you. Uh, Stephen: I legitimately don’t know anybody else better in the business than you guys. Thank you seriously. Brand Builders Group has been a huge asset, uh, to me in my journey. Um, and I know I’ve been a huge asset to so many other personal brands, uh, book launches and [00:01:00] everything else. I mean, there’s some of the best known books in the marketplace right now have come through your doors, so thank you. Yeah. Rory: Yeah. I mean, we’re, you know, we’re serving mission driven messengers and, and the only thing we’re doing is try to help, uh, you know, in our case it’s. It’s, it’s like a ministry. We feel God saying, Hey, help my people be heard. Yeah. And help the good guys win. Yeah. Uh, and not just have a world where the best marketer wins mm-hmm. Rather than the best idea wins. Yeah. Or the, the more, the most service centered person. So we’re really just dedicated to trying to help. People who genuinely wanna help the world. Yeah. And uh, it’s working, it’s working right now. Yeah. We got a good thing going. Stephen: Yeah. And no, it’s, it’s not just working, it’s scaling, which I, I absolutely love. As somebody who’s been, you know, part of the picture now for several years, got to watch almost the, almost the inception, right. Of Brand Builders group. And, uh, to see you guys doing such amazing work in the marketplace. It’s amazing. You know, I, it is funny you mentioned the me driven messengers, helping them be heard. Yes. Right. And, uh, you and I did a podcast, it was a couple years ago, and I was like, I think on the podcast, I literally like, got stunned. I’m like, oh man, what? [00:02:00] ’cause you asked me a question, I was like, well, I think I’ve been trying to figure out if I’m worthy of a voice. Mm. And I think a lot of personal brands or aspiring personal brands, people that maybe have a lot of wisdom and knowledge that maybe haven’t hit the marketplace yet, probably be struggle with that. I wanna start there. Mm-hmm. And then I wanna jump into monetization, but, uh, what are your thoughts there? Rory: Yeah, I mean. What makes every person worthy of a voice is all the people that they can help. Mm-hmm. Rory: We’re not in this for a game of vanity. Mm-hmm. But we’re very much committed to this game for the betterment of humanity. Mm-hmm. And the people that we work with are the people who realize. My message matters not for me. Yeah. But my message matters for the people that I’m trying to reach, and I think some people frankly hide behind humility. Mm-hmm. And what their, their humility is really [00:03:00] just fear masquerading as humility. Yeah. They’re afraid that they won’t succeed. They’re afraid. People will think they’re stupid. They’re a, they’re afraid that people will say you’re a copycat or someone else. Who do you think you are? And do you only feel fear when you’re thinking about yourself? Ooh, there is, there is no fear when the mission to serve is clear. Yeah. That’s one of our big bbg mantras. Like, I mean, if you, if you. And this, this is like all types of fear, right? Like if you go, when you, let’s say you’re driving down the street and there’s a car that’s turned over. Mm-hmm. Right? And you hear somebody yelling, you run over. You’re not, you’re not thinking about how, how does my hair look? Yeah. Like, is my outfit cute? Like, does my breath stink? Like, you’re, you’re not worried about it because you’re going to help somebody. Yeah. All of us, um, we, we, we, we, the way we like to say it is we say. Um, your highest value is when you’re being your highest value to others. Mm-hmm. And there’s a magical [00:04:00] part of that, that when. Your skills and talents are being used to help somebody else. Yeah. You perform in a, a way that we believe is divine. We believe this is part of your divine identity. Mm-hmm. That this is the design of your life, that every problem you’ve gone through. Mm-hmm. Every heartbreak, every setback, every struggle, every challenge. It really didn’t have anything to do with you. Mm-hmm. It had everything to do with making you into the person you needed to be. Yeah. So that one day you could reach back and help somebody else. And you know, of course the, the flagship, uh, yeah. I think I showed you this. So, you know, the, one of our flagship mantras, uh, we, we printed it on the covers like a little Easter egg. You are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. Mm-hmm. Stephen: And so we put and all the variations of that person. Totally. Rory: Yeah. Totally. And, and, and I think when people hear personal branding, you know, sometimes they equate it to like, oh, ego, arrogance, [00:05:00] celebrity, like mm-hmm. Self-centeredness. That’s not it at all. I mean, that, that’s not how we do it. Like to us, your personal brand is not about you. Mm-hmm. It is a hundred percent about the person that you’re here to serve. And, and the reason that you’re, the reason that you’re worthy is not ’cause you’re worthy. It’s ’cause someone else is worthy. Yes. Yes. And because that person is worthy. It makes your message really important. Yeah. Um, and that makes you important. And, and I think that’s this great irony is that our, our lives have meaning in the context of other people. And I think one of the great travesties of the world today is like, so many people are depressed because it’s like, I’m seeking happiness. I’m seeking happiness. How do I get happy? Like, what do I have to do to get happy? Like, what kind of routine? What, what thing, what do I drink? What do I eat? What, what do I wear? What, what do I buy that makes me happy? Mm-hmm. And that. Pursuit leads to depression. Yeah. Because it’s completely self-centered. Mm-hmm. Um, kind of our philosophy on this is like, don’t pursue happiness. Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] Pursue service. Mm-hmm. And happiness shows up as a byproduct. Yeah. Like you pursue service and purpose shows up as a byproduct because when I’m helping somebody, there’s nothing like the feeling you get when you help somebody. Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. Rory: And you, and you realize, and you, you get to experience. This visceral taste of, wow, my life matters. Not because I’m important, but because I did something to help somebody. Mm-hmm. And that’s what. Personal branding should be about. Yeah. I don’t think that’s what the early wave of social media has been. Yeah. Yeah. But it is the, the, the people who are winning and making real money and making a lasting impact are not just people who are going viral once or writing the algorithm for a few months. Mm-hmm. It is mission-driven messengers who are dialed in that, that their worth is con is, is inherent because of their desire to serve. Stephen: Dude, I’m really glad you said all that. And I’ll tell you why. ’cause I, I have personally have a, I have a love hate relationship, uh, with the marketplace. [00:07:00] And if you’re gonna step into a role of influence, doesn’t mean, so you mean influencer or a thought leader or personal brand? Like, it’s like if you’re, if you have a voice that’s influential to other people. Mm-hmm. Right. To me, there’s a responsibility with that. And at least for me, part of the difficulties that I faced in trying to break through the noise was, I call it the, the degradation of trust. You know, you, you, you kind of alluded to it, the early wave. It’s like, you know, they built audiences and things of that nature and then maybe didn’t really have the heart of service, maybe, didn’t really do it authentically, uh, maybe hurt some people along the way, whether intentional or accidental, maybe in that selfish capacity. And as a result, you had this wave of the guru versus now what I’m seeing the economy shift to, which is the guide. Mm-hmm. Stephen: Right. And these guides are not self-centered. These guys are selfless in that they want to train and help. What would you say to, uh, the marketplace that has, you know, at least in [00:08:00] today’s times, there’s, there’s been a little bit of, you know, trust lost with a lot of, um, various levels of thought leadership and things of that nature and, you know, and. You know, I think people do want to hear from people that have had this, you know, a similar experience early on, you know, serving the person you used to be and things of that nature. How do we rebuild trust as a personal brand, as it ’cause you know, a lot of our listeners are aspiring entrepreneurs or early stage entrepreneurs, mid stage, like they haven’t quite broken through the seven picker ceiling. You and I both know you guys did a, uh, an amazing study not that long ago. Mm-hmm. That kind of proves the point of how powerful personal branding is, but they’re also like, well, I don’t wanna be like that guy or that woman, or that person, or, I’m just curious, how do we handle the trust? Rory: Well, the, the first thing that I would say is. Um, you know, when people hear about brand Builders group and personal branding, they immediately think like online marketing or social media or podcasts. ’cause we work with a lot of the biggest podcasters in the world. Mm-hmm. And we work with a lot of the, the, the, the most well-known speakers in the world. Yep. And things like that. Um, but what we have to tell people is don’t think of personal branding [00:09:00] as online, really. Mm-hmm. We define personal branding as the digitization of reputation. Mm-hmm. All this is is an old, this isn’t a new concept, it’s an old concept. It’s really reputation, and reputation is about trust. And I would say just like so, yes, I think there’s been a lot of people who’ve been taken advantage of and burned by people online who just want to get their hands in their pockets. But that happens every day offline too. Stephen: That’s true. Rory: Happens every day with and in Stephen: every Rory: industry, every industry, every geography. And what, what I would say is. You can take advantage of people once. Mm-hmm. Maybe twice. But if you have any type of vision for a sustainable business or brand or m money making machine mm-hmm. You can’t. Can, you can’t continue. You can’t, you can’t scale garbage. Yeah. Right. Like you can take advantage of somebody once. Mm-hmm. But they’re not gonna refer their friends. They’re not gonna come back again. [00:10:00] And repeat business and referrals and recommendations and endorsements is, is all of business. Mm-hmm. And that hasn’t changed. It’s just multiplied. It’s exponential now because we live in such an online world. Mm-hmm. Um. So what I would say is it’s the same as it’s always been, right? Like the guy who has a plumbing business. Mm-hmm. There’s some other plumber out there taking advantage of people and double charging and not fixing, doing a good job and all this sort of stuff. Well, at first it may look like he’s winning, but over the course of time, all that business eventually migrates to you. Yeah. And so I think my encouragement would be, think longer term. Mm-hmm. But my encouragement is go, you gotta remind yourself that this, that if you’re a mission driven messenger, you’re not trying to go viral for a moment. Mm-hmm. You’re not trying to be famous for 15 minutes. You’re trying to make a lasting impact in the world. Yeah. And that takes time. Yeah. Rory: And, and if you do it right, it will last a long time. Mm-hmm. It’s not, we’re not the people. You can’t, we’re not the people who look for [00:11:00] hacks. Right. Yeah. We’re not looking for tricks and gimmicks and, oh, how do I like find a trending audio or like a, a secret hashtag like. That’s not what it’s about. It’s about reputation. It’s about trust. And if you play that game sooner or later you win. Now the other thing I would say to people that is important about this is in the short term, it may feel like you’re losing. Mm-hmm. Rory: But, but you always get paid for how hard you work. Mm-hmm. Rory: Sometimes it’s now, but usually it’s not. Oftentimes it’s later. But always, eventually. Mm-hmm. And that’s the secret that most entrepreneurs lose sight of, because honestly, some people get drawn into entrepreneurship with the lure of like riches and mm-hmm. Private jets and like, you know, big balling and fancy watches and like, uh, and, and that’s why they’re like, oh, I’m gonna come in with that. And, you know, there’s a lot of power to being driven by ambition. There was a big part of my life where I, [00:12:00] I was driven by ambition. Uh, I’ve been driven by competition mm-hmm. For parts of my life. There’s some healthy parts of those that really push you. Mm-hmm. But Rory: eventually they kind of like fizzle out. Yeah. The part that never fizzles out is mission. Yeah. If you can be driven by mission, if you can be driven by service. Then you’re never done, but yet you always feel satisfied and fulfilled. Mm-hmm. And, um, you just gotta be willing to play that, that long game. And I think that’s, you know, the same as it’s been in any generation is, is people are always falling victim to the short term impulses. Mm-hmm. But the, the people who are breaking through the wall. Are consistently building trust, adding value for the long term. Stephen: Yeah, dude, that’s so good. Rory: That’s Stephen: so Rory: good. Stephen: You know, I was also thinking too, so I was very fortunate to get a advanced copy of, uh, wealthy and Well known. Bro, that book is meaty. Oh my gosh. You fit so much into those pages. You and AJ did a phenomenal job. Thank you. Um, it was funny as I was reading it, it’s very Rory: tactic. There’s a, an emotional [00:13:00] human part, but then it’s very, bro, it’s, it’s, again, it’s tactical textbook. It’s one of the Stephen: best books I’ve seen hit the market. Uh, in a long time I’m not, and I’m not just blowing smoke. Like I’ve had the privilege and honor of, um, being a client, uh, working alongside of you guys on specific projects and really watching you actually truly. Walk out what you write out. Mm. Stephen: You really, you guys really do as an organization. And I’ll give you one of the things that you guys really helped me with, because I think a lot of personal brands really face this. Rory: So before you do that, yeah. Should we give the book away to everybody? Stephen: Yeah. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Okay. Rory: Okay. So, so this is something that we’re doing with our friends as we’re, we’re, yeah. We’re giving away the audio book completely for free. Mm-hmm. So we, uh, the book is obviously available or, you know, depending on when you watch this, it’s, it’s about to come out. But we’re giving away the audio book for free. If you go to free brand audiobook.com/build, so free brand audiobook.com/build because you’re a friend of Stevens and Stevens is a friend of ours. You we’re [00:14:00] literally, you get the whole book for free on audio. You get it right away, no catches, no catch, nothing to it. Stephen: Guys, I told you, these people are amazing. I keep telling you guys, man, dude, thank you so much for that. Yeah, I’m Stephen: sure everybody’s gonna love that, man. I hope so. Um, again, I, I’m still gonna highly recommend they grab a couple copies for themselves and their friends, because I found myself with a highlight in Ink Pen. And while the audio book is amazing, and I’ll absolutely love it, I I I, I’m gonna highly suggest they wrap a couple extra copies for that reason. But you like the physical I’m that I like both, man. I’ll listen to the audio books on the airplane or on a jog or on a walk and Yeah, but I have, you know, but that’s good. And then I’m like, oh, now, now that I’m listening to it in my head I’m like, oh, I wanna highlight that. I’m like, oh, wait a minute. I can’t highlight my, what I’m hearing. So it’s, so, it’s, it’s a, it’s a best of both worlds from my perspective, but sometimes Rory: I, I, I mostly listen. And then sometimes I’ll buy it just to put it on the shelf, like a, like a trophy, like I conquer, like I conquered that book. That’s amazing. Yeah. Stephen: I haven’t thought about that. Maybe I should try that too. But, uh, yeah. You know what, one of the things that it is gonna help, I think a lot of folks do, is one of the things that you [00:15:00] guys have taught me over the number of years, um, is the importance of being authentic. And, you know, I really struggled for a long time to really have a clear message. Mm. Stephen: And it wasn’t. For me, it was more along the lines of, there’s so many experiences that I’ve had, right? Mm-hmm. I have a very robust background of challenges and adversities. A lot in business, a lot in life, a lot in relationships, a lot in different varieties. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, okay, I have all this experience. Um, I think God has given me enough, uh, quite a bit of wisdom with a lot of these experiences. ’cause I look for the lessons. What do I talk about? How do I shape that? How do I, how do I lean in? And, you know, and it was really, really difficult until I really started working with you guys and you guys helped me clarify really what that message is by a filtering process. Mm-hmm. You know, I think that a lot of people, and this is me talking, right? I think a lot of mission-driven messages that haven’t stepped up to the plate yet aren’t doing so out of fear of wanting to serve, but fear of not knowing what to say. Sure. [00:16:00] So kind of let’s walk through that a little bit. Rory: Yeah, for sure. Well, uh, you know, our. We, our full curriculum, we have like 12 different two day experiences. Mm-hmm. Right. Our flagship two day experience is the first one. It’s called Finding Your Brand, which I did, which you, you’ve been through, uh, a lot of the content in this book is from that. Mm-hmm. So this is kind of like the self-guided version for 20 bucks. Yeah. Uh, but we work with people, you know, one-on-one. Um, and if you came through that experience, there’s, there’s four. Things we, we gotta get people clear on. Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s, it’s kind of like four one things. So the first is you gotta be clear on what problem you solve mm-hmm. In one word. And that’s like the genesis. Yeah. And most people can, they can’t even answer that question. What problem can I solve for the world in one word? Yeah. The next thing is, who do I solve that problem for? Mm-hmm. In one phrase. Mm-hmm. Rory: Then how do I solve that problem in one sentence, which is what we call your message. Yep. And then. What [00:17:00] one single revenue stream matters above all others. Mm-hmm. And if you get clear on those four one things, we call that your uniqueness. Mm-hmm. And, and it’s really important to narrow it because of a, a concept that we call Sheehan’s wall. Yeah. Right. So I, I named THS after a colleague of ours, Peter Sheehan, who’s really, really brilliant, mostly in the corporate world. I, I originally heard the concept from him and then we adapted it to personal brands because, um, it was so good. And, and then we named it after Peter, but. You know, in any, in any vertical, in any industry, there’s two groups of people. There are those who are unknown. Mm-hmm. Right? So they’re, they’re living in obscurity. Yep. And then there are those who are, are well known. Yep. Uh, they have notoriety. Mm-hmm. They’re recognizable. Right. That’s where the well-known of this comes from, is where helping people move from unknown to well-known. Mm-hmm. Well, what most of us do that are unknown is we look at the people who are well known and we go, oh, I’m gonna do what they do. And so we look at Gary Vaynerchuk and he talks about lots of topics, right? And he talks about [00:18:00] entrepreneurship and sports and music and entertainment and wine and Web3 and social media and cryptocurrency and ai and AI and all this stuff, right? And we’re like, oh, I’m multi-passionate. I, I, I wanna talk about a lot of topics. Multi-passionate. A multi-passionate. I was Stephen: multi-passionate. Yeah. Yes. Uhhuh. Okay. Rory: Yeah. And, and that’s what we’re like, oh, I. I’m multi-passionate. Mm-hmm. So I’ll talk about a lot of topics and then, and then, you know, Gary and everyone else is saying, well, you gotta be on, you gotta be multi-platform. You need to be on, you need a podcast, you need YouTube, you need Twitter X, and you need Facebook Meta, and Instagram and Snapchat and Pinterest and YouTube, like all the places. Um, and you’re like, okay, all right. So I’d be on all the places. And then it’s a challenge because you’re like, who do I talk to? It’s like, well, there’s so many people following me that are from different areas, like. My grandma follows me and my kids. Yeah. My kids’ best friend’s parents and my people from church and like my employees and my customers. But then I’m also like, have this hobby like on the side. And uh, and then we’re trying to monetize in too many different ways. ’cause we see the rock, I. Right. Mm-hmm. And we go, well, the Rock owns a sports team [00:19:00] and he owns an energy dream tequila, and he owns tequila. And he owns, he owns men’s facial products and clothing line. And, and, and he’s a comedian and he’s an actor. Mm-hmm. And, and I’ve heard multiple streams of income is how you get rich. So I, I want multiple streams of income. And so what happens is we’re talking to too many audiences mm-hmm. On too many platforms. Mm-hmm. About too many topics, trying to monetize in too many different ways. Mm-hmm. And what happens is you bounce off the wall. That’s the noise of the confusion. That’s the noise. The reason you bounce off the wall is because if you have diluted focus, you get diluted results. Mm-hmm. Period. Yeah. Right. And, and that came from my, that’s a quote from my first book, take the Stairs, which came out years ago. Yeah, right. It’s still an amazing book. It’s been true. Still true. Right? Yeah. Is is, um. The, and if you think of the metaphor of the wall, right? Like, okay, if, if I’m hitting a wall, if I’m swinging a sled sledgehammer and I’m hitting all these different spots on the wall, nothing happens to that wall. Mm-hmm. But Rory: if I pick a spot on the wall mm-hmm. And I hit the [00:20:00] same spot over and over mm-hmm. And over again, and again and again. Yeah. Eventually that paint is gonna chip and then it’s gonna crack. Yeah. And then there’s gonna be a divot. And then I’m gonna, I’m gonna punch through. There’s gonna be a little tiny hole. Yeah. And then I’m gonna punch through and when I punch through and pull back, the entire wall comes crashing down. Mm-hmm. And that’s how you become. Wealthy and well known. Yeah. Because nobody who got rich got rich from multiple streams of income. It’s the stupidest piece of advice on the internet. That’s Stephen: very true. I didn’t, yeah, I didn’t, everybody, Rory: you’re a great example. Yeah. Everybody who got Rich got rich from one amazing stream of income. They had one thing they did really well, right? Mm-hmm. Like, uh, you know, messy is a soccer player. Wolfgang Puck is a chef. Mm-hmm. The Rock in the beginning was just a wrestler. Mm-hmm. In, in, in the beg, like Sarah Blakely had Spanx mm-hmm. Richard Branson had like Virgin records. You had, you know, Elon Musk does a lot today in the beginning. PayPal. PayPal, yeah. Like there was one [00:21:00] thing, Jeff Bezos, Amazon, like there, there’s not an example, like there’s, there’s like zero examples mm-hmm. Of people who got rich from multiple streams of income. And there’s like zero examples of people who got famous for multiple things. The way you get wealthy mm-hmm. And well known is you have one amazing stream of income and you become well known on one single topic. Mm-hmm. Right. If you go, Brene Brown became one of the most influential people in the world. Mm-hmm. All she did for decades was study a one word problem. Shame. Mm-hmm. And you can’t talk about shame without someone bringing up Brene Brown’s name. Yeah, she owns the topic. Dave Ramsey. Owns the topic of debt. Mm-hmm. He has built a multi nine figure business in annual revenue, a thousand employees. Mm-hmm. Bill, 1 billion podcast downloads like 17 million people listening to him on the radio, and yet he’s been saying the same thing every day for three hours. The [00:22:00] same seven baby stuff for 30 years. Yeah, that’s true. Over and over. Yeah. And over. Right. You, you break through the wall by being the world’s leading authority on one thing. Yeah. And so the discipline. Is in, is in finding your uniqueness. As Larry Wingett told me early in my career, the goal is to find your uniqueness. Mm-hmm. And exploit it in the service of others. Yeah. So what we did was we created a process that curates. A multi-passionate person mm-hmm. Through a series of exercises and introspective questions and reflection to where the answer emerges. Right. Yeah. Like, I can’t just like look at someone and go, oh, your uniqueness is blank. Yeah. But you go through this process and the process, it’s revealed. Mm-hmm. Right. And so, you know, that’s the process. We, we, we. Teach in the book for, you know, a few bucks, uh, and then, you know, for more money, we can guide somebody through it if they’re really struggling. Stephen: Yeah. You know, I’m so glad you, you, you really unpacked that because I, again, I think there’s a tremendous amount of confusion because of all the things that you say, right? [00:23:00] Uh, if I’m, if I’m new to the in, I, and I was at one time, I was very new to the industry. And I wanted to serve people. Mm-hmm. And I think a part of me had to die to self a little bit of, you know, a little bit of, alright, what do you, why do you really want to do this? Do you really wanna do this for the service of others or do you, are you just saying that and not really meaning it? That’s, that’s good. Steven. Which, which is authenticity. That’s honest, bro. And I find that I’m not the only one that’s faced that Rory: all of us face that, you Stephen: know, and Rory: every day. Stephen: Yeah. Well, and I think that’s the, I think that’s part of the important part of the conversation, like, yes. Brand builders group is, is the very best. At what you guys do hands down? I don’t know anybody like you guys, um, from personal branding to books to book launches, there’s nobody better that I’m aware of. I haven’t, I haven’t been introduced to ’em yet, and I’ve been in a lot of rooms, uh, thanks to doing what you guys have taught me to do. Rory: Well, and we, we created the thing that we wished we had. Mm-hmm. Right. We’re serving the person we once were before I was. The youngest Hall of Fame speaker in US History. Mm-hmm. Before I was a 29-year-old Best New York Times besting [00:24:00] author, before I had a TED Talk go viral. Before we had millions of downloads, I was a broke. Person aspiring to be like, I wanna speak on stages, I wanna write a book. Mm-hmm. I want, I wanna help people. And there was no path. Yeah. So we don’t know of one that exists either. That’s why we created it anyway. Works. We’re serving the person. We’re serving the person that we once were. Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I wanna, I wanna touch on, I wanna go back to this for just a second ’cause I’d love to hear your thoughts. ’cause this was a hard lesson for me to learn. Right. Um, you know, I went through an embezzlement. Situation with the company I sold number of years ago. Um, and I had this lady come up to me one time, uh, I, that happened the night before, a three day event that I was gonna be teaching for three days straight Transform. You live the first one? Mm-hmm. 2017. And in walks this, uh, I call ’em a little pro, uh, prophetic woman, right? She’s African American lady. I loved her. Her name was Dee. And she looks in, I’m about to start crying. Um, and ’cause I, I, she doesn’t, I’m about to step on stage for three days and teach for three days. And this was happening the night before. Right? Nice. Uh, or so, as far as what was made aware of that, and I remember this concept of her coming [00:25:00] to me in this meeting, or not this, in this, in this event. ’cause she was one of the attendees and walking up and I was starting to cry and she’s like, oh no honey. Oh no honey, you can’t go to where you’re going next without going through this door. Now up until that point, I admired everybody that I followed. Right. Uh, you and Ramsey and, and so many others. Uh, Maxwell was like somebody I really admired a lot of and in that, and it was like, uh, ET was, uh, obviously we, we both worked with ET a little bit. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we, these people I just admired, right. I just admired how they carried themselves and how they showed up and served and tried to model my speaking and all this stuff after anyway, long story short was probably 90 days I did the three day event. I was told it was some of the most, the best content I had done, but I was completely. Catastrophically humbled. Mm. Like I had nothing to draw on, but exactly what I was teaching on, period. It was stuff that obviously I used to get that far. 90 days goes by, I walk at night, I happen to get, go and sit in her office, and I’m sitting in the chair and I’m crying and she’s just smiling and she’s like, [00:26:00] what’s on your mind? I’m like, if this is what it takes, I don’t want it. Mm. Stephen: God can have it. I don’t need to step on a stage. I don’t need to write a book. I don’t. I don’t want it. I don’t want it. You know what she said? She goes, oh honey. Now you’re ready? Mm-hmm. So I wanna talk a little bit about, because you and I have both experienced this, you know, as you know, our mutual friend, Randy Garn, um, I started trying to help some of his, uh, thought leader friends, monetize their businesses and funnels and things like that, just with the, with stuff I’ve learned over the last several years. And, you know, we’ve, we’ve both ran into, uh, what I call it, it’s like a personal brand growth curve. Honestly, it’s almost like you move from ego into your authenticity. And I’m curious to know, and this is, I know this is not something we ever talked about before, just just ’cause you’re so brilliant at what you do, what do you think are, is some way to almost do like a reality check or gut punch to see where you are in your journey? ’cause it’s, it wasn’t until that moment that stuff started like really flowing for me is when I actually finally said [00:27:00] yes. I, I actually do want to serve people. I actually do want to help people. I actually do have a voice. I do have a truth. I do have something in my spirit. Mm-hmm. Like what, how do, how, ’cause I feel like that’s, you know, that’s, that’s part of breaking through the wall in many respects as being authentic. Rory: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I, I think of that less as like a journey that you’re on. Mm-hmm. And I think of that more as like. A daily decision that you have to make. Ooh, yeah. So, so here’s a good example, right? So, you know this, I’m a hardcore Bible thump in Jesus freak I put it out there, right? So whe whether you’re, whether you’re a, a, you know, a Christian or not, it doesn’t matter. But like, stick with me on this. So, uh, Colossians 3 23. In the Bible it says, do your work unto the Lord and not unto earthly masters. Mm-hmm. Right? And so I hear that and I’m like, yeah, that’s good. I should do my work unto the Lord and not unto earthly masters, and definitely not unto myself for my own like success. [00:28:00] And then it hits me. I go, okay, well how, how do I really know if the work that I’m doing is for the Lord? Mm-hmm. Or if it’s for my own selfish interest. Mm-hmm. Or if it’s to try to win the approval of other people. Mm-hmm. Rory: Because here’s the, here’s the irony. Yeah. Either way I should do great work. Mm-hmm. Rory: Right. If I’m trying to garner fame and accolades for myself, I have to be really good at what I do. If I’m trying to earn the, the genuine approval of others, of my colleagues, like I have to do something really good. And most of all, if I’m dedicating my life in service of the Lord. And, and for those us, those of us that believe that we were created by him and in his image mm-hmm. With, with the abilities that he’s given us, that should be excellent work. Yeah. So how do I know if I’m creating excellent work, who’s it for? And, and the only thing I’ve resolved to on this, Steven Yeah. We’ve never talked about this, but is I have to make that my prayer [00:29:00] every day. I, because in any scenario, I’m gonna wake up and hopefully do excellent work today. Mm-hmm. Rory: The question is, what’s the intention of why I’m doing it? Mm-hmm. And, and who am I doing it for? Mm-hmm. And so all I can do every day is say, Lord, please use me. Please make my life about you and not me. Please put my life in the service of others. Mm-hmm. And what’s amazing about that is. You know, you get this divine sense of purpose. And fulfillment and, and it, and it’s amazing. So again, you know, like I think of, you know, somebody, this is, I don’t know, I think it’s in Matthew, I think it’s probably in a few of the gospels, but somebody comes up to Jesus and, you know, says, you know, there’s like 617 laws in the Old Testament or something. Something like that. Mm-hmm. Six 17, I think. And anyways, I, uh, this guy says, well, Jesus, which, like, which one’s the most important? And Jesus goes, oh, well, love the God. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your mind and your [00:30:00] soul, and, and love your neighbor as thyself. Mm-hmm. Basically love God and love others. Mm-hmm. And that’s such a simple, but beautiful, profound strategy that I go if I’m doing my work unto the Lord. Mm-hmm. And even if you don’t believe in God, if I’m doing my work unto make the world a better place. Mm-hmm. I have purpose, I have passion. Uh, my mind begins to transcend limitations of what I think I’m capable of. And I get out of this negative self-talk of I’m not sure I’m good enough, or I’m not sure I’m smart enough, or I, I I don’t have the connections, or I don’t have enough money, or all the, all the, the self-limiting beliefs that show up in a self-centered conversation and my mind becomes consumed with. How can I help that person? What would make them succeed faster? Where are they stuck? What, Rory: what do I have to offer that could be useful for them? Mm-hmm. And that’s the whole strategy. Yeah. Like both in a spiritual sense, [00:31:00] but also in a practical one. Mm-hmm. Like part of the way that I’ve developed relationships with so many of these client people who then became clients, right. The Lewis House, the Amy Porterfield, the Ed Millets, et the hip hop preacher. Yeah. Is my goal isn’t to sell to them. My goal is to be so useful to them that they can’t ignore me. Yeah. Right. To be so helpful. Yeah. That they have to pay attention. Mm-hmm. And. Great economic and, and worldly things come out of that as a byproduct. But, but much more important is meaningful relationships and a deep sense of purpose. Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, for myself and, and hopefully Brand Builders Group becomes a big amplification of that, bro. It’s Stephen: already there. And just scaling. Rory: I hope so. Stephen: Not a hope. So it’s a, it’s a facto. Rory: Well, and we gotta, that’s gotta be a part of our culture, of our mm-hmm. Of every person on our team and, and every one of our clients. And so we curate our clients like pretty stringently. Yeah. There’s, there’s a lot of people [00:32:00] that we don’t allow to become clients. Um, but, you know, coming back to your question, you know, I, I don’t know a way to put the ego to rest permanently. Yeah. All I know is that every day I can wake up and I can say, God, everything you’ve given me, I give back to you. My life is yours. Yeah. God, take this company and make it whatever you want. Yeah. Uh, take this, you know, take this book God, and like whatever, whatever you want to have happen, let it be Yeah. I trust you. And whatever the results are, I surrender to whatever that is. Yeah. That’s the only thing I, I don’t know how to put my ego to bed. Mm-hmm. All I know is the discipline of waking up every day and, and doing that. Stephen: Well, it sounds like you put the ego to bed. By the same way I had to do it, which is surrender. Surrender. Yeah. Just, yeah. Surrender to the, yeah. Dude, that was so good. Rory: Well, and so, and sometimes it’s like, I think it’s like, you know, it’s like, well, why do bad things happen? You know, who knows? But, but what I [00:33:00] do know is that a lot of times in my own life, I’ve had to be beaten down to the point where I give up. Yeah. It’s what Dee told you, right? I, I’ve, I, I have had to get to the point where I, I quit because I’m like. I can’t take this anymore. Mm-hmm. I can’t carry this stress. I cannot go to bed every night thinking that we have 50 employees and all their families now that we now own a building and we have mm-hmm. We have dozens of book launches that are like life changing moments that are literally in our hands that, you know, our me driven messengers are, are reaching millions of people every day. Mm-hmm. And like. The obliga, the weight of going, we better not screw up. Yeah. And I’m like, I can’t carry that. Yeah. So I’m like, Stephen: this is not my problem. This is your problem, bro. I’m so happy you acknowledged that. ’cause I mean, you, you guys are, you guys are playing a massive role in changing lives as a bi You and I obviously did a, a helped ed with this book launch a number of years ago and, you know, I think I shared with you on another podcast like, dude, it was just an honor to [00:34:00] know that we got to touch lives through. Through helping what Ed was doing. Yeah. Yeah. And that was such a surreal moment. And it sounds like you get to relive that almost every day. Rory: Well, yeah. I mean if you just took, you know, we have like 900 active members in our, our flagship coaching program. So if you added up all the impressions those people get mm-hmm. And that’s what we started Brand Builders Group. Right. Brand Builders Group was never started to be a profit maximization endeavor. Yeah. It was started to be an impact maximization endeavor. It was to go. What could we do that actually would shape the world? And it’s like if we took everything we knew and applied it to just my personal brand or AJ’s. Mm-hmm. Aj, my wife and my business partner, our CEO, for those of you that don’t know, which is by the Stephen: rock, by the way. She’s a rockstar. CEO. She is, she is bad. Right. And this is her first book. Rory: You know, we co-authored it together and yeah. What’s cool is Take the stairs is really like my life story. Mm-hmm. Coming out. Uh, for this, this is more of like the tactics, but. This is her first book, so her life story is really in the book. That’s so good, dude. First time. That’s [00:35:00] so good. Um, but I think it, it, we, we were going Oh yeah. Like we could make a much bigger dent in the world mm-hmm. If we took what we know and multiplied it through mission driven messengers like you. Yeah. And, uh, that’s really amazing. And, and, and, and now we’re trying to go, all right, well. Uh, how, how, how do we make sure that this thing would continue even if we weren’t here? Stephen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. The legacy play. Yeah. Like just, yeah. Legacy. Build it, build it for legacy Rory: to, to, to go be, because it’s truly, it’s truly god’s. And, and you know, our first business was, and we started in 2006. Mm-hmm. We grew that to eight figures. We had 200 team members. Um, it took us 12 years to do that. We lost everything overnight, very unexpectedly. Um, brand builders group got back to eight figures in five years. We had no team, no investors, no money. Mm-hmm. No followers. We started completely from scratch and we got back in half the time. And you go, how? Yeah. We gave it to God from the first day. You Stephen: gave it to God and you [00:36:00] also stepped out. Just, and at the, if I’m not mistaken, it started with you just simply helping a friend. Rory: Yeah. It was helping Louis. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lewis, it was just, it, we were trying to just be useful to Louis. We didn’t even need anything from him at the time when, when Lewis mm-hmm. House and I became buddies, uh, I just thought he was cool. Yeah. And, and, uh, you know, I could tell, I was like, man, this guy’s gonna. He, he’s gonna be something he big in the world. And that was long before he was everything he is now, which is massive. Uh, and, um, you know, I, I just, I think, I think there’s not enough conversation about the power of service in personal brands. People are like, their scoreboard is, how much money did I make? How many followers do I have? Mm-hmm. What stages did I get on? What podcasts did I get invited to? What media outlets have I been featured on? What letters do I have after my name? Mm-hmm. You know, and, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with those things. How much money is in my banking. I, I Stephen: think they’re great as long as they happen [00:37:00] organically as a byproduct of service, Rory: right? Yeah. That, that’s the gonna be the healthiest, the healthiest and most sustainable thing is to go, how can I fall in love with the idea of taking everything that I have and everything I am. And helping other people with it. Mm-hmm. And that is not only the like emotional strategy, it’s the practical one. Mm-hmm. You’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. Mm-hmm. So, you know, one of the things that we talk about in the book is, um, start with who. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, you know, I’m a huge Simon Sinek fan. I think Simon is brilliant and he’s one of my favorite writers. I think he’s one of the, the, the, the most brilliant thinkers of our time. And, you know, he popularized the phrase, start with Why Largely, I think his, that book and his writing is targeted towards organizations. Mm-hmm. Well, with individual personal brands, actually don’t think that advice is right. I think for what, what we’ve seen to be successful is you start with who. The moment I’m [00:38:00] clear, the, the moment a personal brand becomes clear on who they’re serving. Every single other downstream decision becomes clear. Mm-hmm. Right. Like if I know exactly who I’m trying to serve, I know where they hang out. So I know where to advertise. I know what words I should use on my advertisements. Yeah. And on my pages. Yeah. I know exactly what products to create because I know what needs they have that need to be solved. Mm-hmm. I know how much money they make, so I know how to price my offerings. I know exactly what they’re gonna need to implement. Those solutions once they buy them. And so I know what team to build. I know what technology we need to have to support that. Yeah, like everything is clear. Contrast that with somebody who goes. I wanna help the whole world. Well, that was me at the beginning, so that’s right. So now you gotta advertise to the whole world. Yeah. Which is expensive, by the way. You, it’s expensive. You have to use language that appeals to everyone. You have to talk about problems that every person has. You have to create [00:39:00] products that a, that every single person could buy. What is that? By definition that is commoditization. Mm-hmm. That Rory: is a race to the most general, generic, most universal, ubiquitous thing that applies to everybody. Mm-hmm. Rory: And that’s what most people do. And they bounce off the wall and they’re caught up in a, in the very sea of noise they’re trying to escape. And the only way you break through that wall is if you have huge budgets or you already have massive fame, you already have to be super rich. Yeah. Or super or, or super famous. Yeah. The way. For the rest of us, the way to break through is find that uniqueness, serve off one specific who, and serve them in a deep way. And you go, you don’t need millions of followers. And you wanted to talk about monetization strategy. So this is where like suddenly the spiritual connects with like, making money. Yeah. Is you go, you know, people think, oh, I, I need, I need millions of followers so I can make a lot of money. You don’t need millions [00:40:00] of followers to make millions of dollars for the average small business. Literally, like think about this for a second. Most of you watching could triple your best year in income ever with probably less than two dozen of your perfect clients. Wow. Like if you had 24 people. By your top end service. Mm-hmm. You would probably triple your best year ever. You would? Yeah. I would be willing to bet You would definitely be your best year ever. That’s 24 people. Mm-hmm. Rory: There’s billions of people on the planet. You don’t need millions of followers to make millions of dollars. Yeah. Everyone is so focused on the width of their reach that they’re, they’re forgetting and overlooking the depth of their impact. Mm-hmm. The, the key to making money is to serve a few people. In a really deep and profound way. Yeah. That’s, that’s the key to getting rich. Stephen: You know what’s really interesting about that is I’m aware, uh, I can’t remember if it was a year or two ago, or [00:41:00] three years ago, but it was a, it was a time and place where there were a couple launches happening at the same time. And the person, it’s, it reminds me, you know, what reminds me of it, reminds me of Jesus, uh, telling, uh, a parable of how the Pharisee went to go drop in their 10%. At the, at the temple. And yet a woman walks up the stairs and she’s an elderly woman and she’s literally giving everything that she has as an offering to God. Mm-hmm. And Jesus is very clear. He is like, which one gave more? Right. And even though the 10% wasn’t remotely close to what the widow had in her possession, God smiled on that, on that give. Right. And what, what comes to mind is that, is it, I don’t think it was that long ago. There were a couple major launches happening at one time. Uh, one was a bit of a celebrity, one was not. And yet the one that was not because they showed up to serve in many cases, outperformed the celebrity endorsement. Rory: You’re talking about one of our clients. Stephen: I’m just talking about, I’m talking about in general. Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. We, we, we Rory: had, we had a, we had a client with that was very, very famous. I mean like millions and [00:42:00] millions of followers. This show on Netflix, like the whole thing. Mm-hmm. Um, and. Then we had a client who had 800 Instagram followers. Yeah. And I knew, I Stephen: heard from somewhere. Yeah. Rory: Yeah. This is a true story. Yeah. And, and we taught them both what we do. I mean, book launches is one thing we do, right? Like we do. Yeah. It’s one of many things. One of many things, I mean for, for this is your, the personal brand world. Yeah. We only do things for personal brands, but like book launches is one of the things. And so we taught ’em both the same system and the, the, the, the rookie went out and did everything that we said. The celebrity was like, ah, it’s a lot of work. I’m just gonna post on social media. And this rookie outsold the celebrity author who got a huge advance, by the way, from a publisher Wow. On launch week and a year later had still outsold more Wow. Of this book. And it’s, it’s realizing that you can go deep. Um, and, and that, that, um, so there’s a, there’s a, there’s a technique we talk about in the book that we, a pattern we started to [00:43:00] notice, we call it fractal math. Mm-hmm. And. This is how you get rich quick. So if you wanna know, well, as I Stephen: was gonna actually ask you in a couple of minutes we have left about how fractal math, how, how, how to actually use fractal math to monetize. Rory: Yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about it, right? So here, here, here, here we go From like Jesus to like getting filthy rich. Hey, it’s all connected, bro. Um, so here’s the concept of fractal math. This is the principle. It says 10% of your audience. Will an invest at a level 10 times what they’ve already invested with you. Mm. If you give them more application and more, uh, intimacy. Mm-hmm. All right. So let’s say you have a product that’s $30. Mm-hmm. And you get a thousand people to buy it. Okay. For you math majors, that’s 30,000 in revenue, right? Mm-hmm. $30 a thousand people to buy it. Stephen: Multiply X in the middle. Rory: So, so now if you go, I made 30,000 in revenue. What’s the fastest, cheapest, easiest way to double my revenue? What [00:44:00] most of us do naturally is we think about width and we go, great. Go get another thousand customers to buy your $30 product. Mm-hmm. Rory: And that’s not wrong to do that. That is true. That would double your revenue, but that is the most expensive, slowest, hardest way to double your revenue. Mm-hmm. The, the easiest, fastest way to double your revenue is to use fractal math. So what is fractal math again? 10% of your customers will invest at a level 10 times more if you increase their application and intimacy. So. So if you had a thousand people buy at 30, fractal math says that a hundred of those thousand, which is 10%, would invest 10 times more, meaning $300. Mm-hmm. So a hundred of those people would buy a $300 offering if you just served them in a deeper way. Now look at what has happened. You’ve doubled your revenue because 300 times a hundred is also 3000. Mm-hmm. 30,000. Um, same as 30 times a thousand. You’ve doubled your revenue. But here’s the key. [00:45:00] No customer acquisition cost. Mm-hmm. Right. The most expensive customer is a new customer. Ain’t that the truth? We had no customer acquisition, acquisition cost. Um, and it continues to go forward. So if a hundred people gave you $300, then 10 of those hundred, 10% of the a hundred is 10 people would give you $3,000. Mm-hmm. That’s another $30,000. Mm-hmm. And that means one of those 10 people. That gave you 3000 more than that would give you $30,000. Yeah. So there you have 30, 30, 30, 30, $120,000. You quadrupled your revenue. Didn’t add a single new customer or spend any more money on ads. And instead of trying to reach millions of people by trying to go wide. Yeah. You instead were in deliberate and intelligent. You spent no money. Yeah. No other money. And you went deep. Yeah. Rory: And it was faster, it was easier, and it was [00:46:00] way more profitable. Yeah. And nobody does this, uh, until you work with us and then we teach you like, we’re like, I was gonna say, I said, I’m trying to do it. Yeah. Stephen: Yeah. And you know, it’s God, dude, you’re, you’re, oh man. I’m so ha God, I’m so happy God created you, bro. Well, Stephen: I mean, I mean, and I don’t mean that obviously there’s, there’s, there’s business insights that I grasp, but you’re just an amazing human. I’ve had. I get thank I get the pleasure, honor him hanging out with you from time to time. And um, you know, I guess in closing this thing out, I want to encourage everybody to go make sure you get your own copy of Wealthy and Well Known. Yeah, Roy’s already gonna give you a free copy. So Rory: free brand audiobook.com/build. Build B-U-I-L-D, free brand audiobook.com/build. Yeah, I’m telling Stephen: you right now. What you got is a small, very small piece of what’s in this book and, um, I can’t thank you enough, bro. You, you’ve, you’ve, you have been one of the, the few, uh, that when I started this journey, you and like Evan Carmichael and Randy and some [00:47:00] others that really stepped in and said, bro, I think you got something here. I think you should keep going. I don’t think you should give up. I think you should really go out there and, and get a message that resonates out to an audience. And I want to thank you for that. ’cause it means the world to me. ’cause I almost gave up probably five or six times on this journey. Rory: Well, you’re, you’re, you’re welcome. It’s, it’s a, it’s an honor to do that. And it’s a privilege. And, and here’s what I would say to you, and, and I would say to you, if you feel a calling on your heart, right? Like if you listen to this whole conversation and you’re like, man, I. I have this nudge, like I have this, this calling that I feel like I should share my story. I feel like I have something to teach. I feel like I have something to offer. I, I feel like I could help the person that I once was. We believe that the, that calling that you are experiencing is actually the result of a signal that is being sent out from somebody else right now who needs you. Mm-hmm. And, and that’s actually a signal that you could, you could measure scientifically. Mm-hmm. [00:48:00] That, that somebody out there, that person needs you much more than you need them. Mm-hmm. Rory: Right? Like, that’s the person that matters. That’s where our worthiness comes from. That’s where the, the, the purpose comes from. Because they’re out there, like you’re going, oh man, I, I feel like I could do something cool and I could inspire people. They are. Quite literally on their hands and knees crying. Crying. Mm-hmm. Begging and pleading and praying out to God or the universe, or just desperately seeking and searching answers that, you know, like the back of your hand. Why? Because you’ve already been embezzled from, you already built a nine figure company, you already were homeless, you’ve already been through stuff in your personal life, like you’ve already gone through the things that they’re in the middle of. And your very existence, the fact that you have survived all of that and they meet somebody to go, wow, there is, there is hope. Like you’re, you are, you’re a living testimony, [00:49:00] uh, before you even teach them anything of like, there’s hope for me. And that’s why every single person matters. Every single story matters, every heartbreak you’ve been through, and, and you just have to ask yourself, what challenge have I conquered? What setback have I survived? What tragedy have I triumphed over? Because all of those things were a part of preparing you and shaping you and molding you into the person you needed to become to reach back one day and help somebody else. And I believe that that is God’s divine design of your identity. Mm-hmm. But even if it’s not his design and you don’t believe in him, you believe in humans and you can recognize the power Yeah. Of another person’s story. So go be that person for someone. Stephen: Bro, you’re amazing, man. Love you, bro. Love you, man. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey guys, that’s gonna do it for this episode of Build. Uh, yes, go get your free downloaded copy right now of the audio book of Wealthy and well known. I promise you you’re gonna love that, but you’re also love getting a couple copies for yourself. More importantly, I want [00:50:00] you to go right now, stop what you’re doing, literally pause the video, pause the audio, go to your favorite social media app, and I want you to follow Rory and AJ Vaden right now. Right now because they can speak life into your life as they spoke in life into mine. We’ll see you in the next episode. Much love. Take care of peace.