RV: [00:00:00] I have a very, very special treat for you today. You’re about to hear from somebody who is a newer friend of mine, but somebody that I followed for a long time. This woman has four New York Times bestsellers. She has a podcast with over 20 million downloads. She has been all over national television. Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, uh, she has one of the most recognizable. Personal brands in the world, and specifically in the health and nutrition space, which we’re gonna talk about and we’re gonna hear that story. But more than anything, her reputation behind the scenes is just someone that I have, I have grown to have so much respect for so many people in this space have learned from her and studied under her. And I’m honored that she’s here. We’re gonna hear the story today from JJ Virgin. Jj, welcome to the show. JJ: Good to be here. RV: Um, we’re in Nashville. You made a trip. I’m meeting you in person with this stuff. I love JJ: Nashville. If I didn’t live in Tampa, Tennessee’s the other state I would live in. RV: Come [00:01:00] on. Yeah. Uh, I I, I, I get it. And, um, we’re so glad to hear to have you here. So I would love to start by hearing where you are now. Um, I want people to get a sense of the magnitude of here’s all the things that you have going on. ’cause I don’t know that to the untrained eye, they may not realize. Here’s what the empire looks like. And then I wanna go back, and then after that I’ll take you back to go tell us about the hard road to get there. But like, you know, JJ: you said road and it was roads. Roads, yeah. Many, many roads. Many roads. Many hard roads. RV: So tell us like, you know, you know, humble. No, no. Humble brag. Just brag. Just give us the where, where are you at? What’s the, what’s the magnitude of the team? How many businesses you have going on, whatever kind of. Numbers or details you can share to give us a, an understanding of your personal brand? Right now, JJ: actually just released one business. I’m really trying to focus, I have two companies and [00:02:00] I am more excited about my personal brand consumer company now than I think I’ve ever, ever been. Like, I am so fired up about it. I feel like the zeitgeist of what’s going on in health is just in such a perfect place. Um, so, and I’ve really changed the way that I, I operate that business. So I, I bought it back, um, last June 30th. I was up in the air. Uh, going to Spain when it became final. So champagne. So you had sold it 10,000 feet and then you RV: bought it back? Yes, JJ: I bought it back. So, um, and I really, it was in, it’s interesting, when you are buying a company back, I had to think it’s almost harder to give CPR to a company that is going down than just to start all over again. So I really thought I, and, and or not do it at all. And because I have two companies, I was like, maybe I shouldn’t do this. Maybe I should just release this. And so I had to really dig in and go, [00:03:00] do I love this? Is this what I want? Would what, you know, the what would, what would be a dream come true? Dean Jackson statement. And I decided to go full bore with that company, but to redesign it in a different way, which is actually really great in that it is, it has got. One employee. RV: Oh, wow. JJ: I have shifted that model where I have amazing agencies in brand sales, in social, in marketing. So what’s the bus? What’s that business? So, so that business is my consumer brand and what it is are books, programs, products, coaches, and a lot of brand deals. Ultimately, what I really am doing there is I am a, an integrated media personality, driving traffic to all of these different income streams that help women improve their body [00:04:00] composition and because of that, their health. RV: Got it. And that, so that business, how many employees did it have? Like when did you start it? How many employees did you have when you sold it? How long had you’ve been out of it when you bought it back? JJ: So I started it like, I think 2000. 2000 probably. Okay. Um, yeah. Right, right around 2000. I sold it. Uh. 2015. 2017. RV: Okay. JJ: Must have been 20, 20 19. ’cause it was, yeah, 2019. ’cause it was about five years and then I bought it back. Okay. Um, so right RV: before COVID you sold it? I JJ: sold it right before COVID and moved to Florida. Uh, because they wanted me to be in Florida. That ’cause I was part of a parent company that was in Florida. They wanted be in. To be in Florida. So it was the universe, like had my back, okay, to move out of California, move to Florida, [00:05:00] sell this consumer brand. I am trying to remember how many employees we had at the time. It was, you know, like maybe 15. Okay. Um, RV: and it was same thing, programs, coaching courses. It was, it was, JJ: it was my books into, into programs, uh, not much in the way of coaching and a lot of products. That company basically got rid of the programs, turned it into solely a product company. Um, took my name off of the products. We were gonna do a transition from my name on the products, which by the way, the only reason my products were called JJ Virgin was I was in the hospital at the time, my book and my products were launching, and we hadn’t named the product line yet. And I’m like, we were like, just slap her name on it. I mean, we didn’t, it was like it had to be done and there was. That was it. And it was funny at the time, ’cause I watched all these people start to call their products their name and I go, don’t do that. The reason I had to do that was I didn’t have an option. Um, and so we had searched for a new name, but we had a whole [00:06:00] plan of how we were gonna do that transition. ’cause you can’t just flip a name overnight. But when we sold it, they basically booted me out. Okay. May, 2020, I remember it ’cause it was right around Mother’s Day. They kicked me outta the company. They’re like, it’ll be fine. You’ll get paid no matter what, so just go do other things. It actually ended up great because it was during the pandemic and my other company, which we’ve rebranded now as the Health Business Growth Collective. Okay. It’s known as Mindshare, uh, was an event-based company and we had a big event every year called the Mindshare Summit. We had a mastermind. It was very event-based. And then we also got attacked in June of 2020 as the um, company dedicated to keeping wellness white. Huh? During the whole BLM. Gotcha. So it was like, so I got to focus completely on what to do about an event-based business that was having a PR crisis, which, you know, it was, couldn’t be further from the truth, but it all ended [00:07:00] up actually fantastic. ’cause we started a scholarship fund for, um, historically black universities and did all sorts of cool stuff. ’cause I went, well the problem is we don’t have enough people of color in the industry. That’s the challenge. We actually have more people in our group than are in the Indus, you know, percentage wise that are in the industry. But the problem is they’re not in the industry. Let’s go back and figure that out. RV: So you had the space to do that because you basically were booted from the farmer company. Yeah. Becausecause, I JJ: was kicked outta the other company. So all these things that at the, on the outset looked like horrible things. Right. Worked out perfectly ’cause I was able to focus over on the other side. Um, but when I did, they actually took that brand. I remember they changed all of the look and feel of it changed the name of it. So people thought it was a different company. So all of a sudden I started, they took RV: your name off the whole, they took JJ: my name off of the product line because the product line, we were gonna change it into Reignite Wellness. We had a two year transition plan where it was JJ Virgin’s Reignite Wellness, [00:08:00] where we would keep the same look and feel. They changed the logos. They made it look like a little girl’s unicorn birthday party. Like they changed the color. ’cause all the color schemes were very clear. Right? They changed it to like these pastels and this like. Very, it looked very different. And I literally went on the page and they had on this, on the marketing page, they go, we are all things to all women. I went, uhoh. Hmm. JJ: Who is marketing this? We are all things to all women. We celebrate women of all sizes, all ages, all shapes. And they had this page of, it was actually two morbidly obese women and then a normal weight woman all together. And I’m like, what on earth? I, I am in the optimizing your body composition. World. RV: Right? That’s your whole brand. That’s my whole brand. Get healthy and, JJ: and, and it really is for women. 40 plus. So my whole brand is for women, 40 plus optimizing body composition. [00:09:00] You just put like a 20-year-old, you put things that would attract like women in their twenties and you’re marketing to healthy at any size, and I don’t believe in that. RV: So what’s what’s weird to me, and I’m always curious about this, so, so you sold them the right to use your name? JJ: I did the biggest booboo ever. So I hope, oh, RV: tell me, tell me, I know this sounds, tell me what’s the biggest boo boo ever? The biggest JJ: booboo ever. You know what’s so funny is. I, I’ve never been that person who could listen to a story and go, oh, I’m so glad I learned that. I won’t do that Mistake. Nope. It, it’s like I have seem to have to blunder through the whole thing. Right. You’re the RV: one who has to touch the hot stove. Yeah. JJ: I am. So maybe that’s why I am a good mentor because I’ve done all the dumb things and so I can help you not do them. And so I sold my website. Like they, they had everything. They had my social media, they had my name Uhhuh. So, ’cause jj virgin.com, all of it, right? They had all of it. [00:10:00] So all of a sudden you go to jj virgin.com and we are, we believe at health in any size. And I’m like, I, so you have RV: 19 years of your personal brand, your research, your reputation, everything. You believe you sell this all at one moment. JJ: Yes. RV: And then you’re out and then they basically like, well, JJ: it gets worse, change a lot of it. So I’m out, I have, I sell it for, um, payments over. Five years, but then a percentage of the parent company. Mm-hmm. Because the parent company was a company I worked with for years, so I was gonna help them grow. And they had a, you know, they had a big plan of where they were gonna grow to. Yeah. And then I had a percentage of the back end, which was what I was the most excited about. Right. RV: That’s kind of how they lured you in, is like the vision of the big picture, the whole thing. Well, because I said what JJ: I needed to make in order for me to even consider this, like, I threw out a stupid number. I, I’ll consider it if Yeah. And they’re like, we can do that. And I went, uhoh. So, all right. So that’s how the whole thing was gonna work with this backend. Huh. You know, and that would’ve [00:11:00] been great, except the founder decided to take some private equity. So my phantom stocks got exercised early instead of later. Like every, like anyone who had phantom stock, which is what I had, the minute you do a a, an equity deal, they, RV: as soon as there’s a liquidation event, it’s Yes. Uhhuh at all. At all comes to you basically at the time. So. JJ: Basically I got a 10th of what I should have gotten. RV: Yeah. Yeah. And then how did you get it all back? Yes. Here, that’s, well, because the JJ: founder’s an awesome human and one of my favorite people on the planet and high, high integrity. And so he was watching this whole thing unfold because once private equity was involved, all of a sudden he didn’t have the control he used to have. Mm-hmm. And you know, I, I came to him two years ago and I go, I cannot do this. Like, I can’t do this. Like, I’m, this just hurts my soul. Yeah. And he goes, you know what? Well, [00:12:00] he wanted me to come back. So here’s what happened about, I was out for three years and they were mucking it up and he goes, I want you to come back. Actually, I think I was out one year. In one year. My email list went four from 400,000 people to 30,000. RV: Wow. JJ: Sales were. Devastated. ’cause all they did, so the marketing person that also marketed were all things to all people. So you can imagine how good of a marketing person this is. Yeah. ’cause that’s the first violation of marketing. She also, all she did was run, run sales, starts blasting your list. Like she’s the lowest life form of marketing. Gotcha. All she did was run sales. So the list got trained to, to do sales. Right. And it never, and it just was going downhill. And so he’s like, I want you to come back. And I remember he, he pinged me about this and I would, had just landed in Orange County and I was going over to Mary Morrisey’s house to spend the night And Mary Morrisey’s, like one of my close friends, but also a [00:13:00] mentor, she’s an ama. Do you know who she is? Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. She wrote, uh, brave Thinking. She runs DreamBuilder Institute. She was a, um, had the biggest non-denominational church in the country for a while. She’s an amazing woman. So I go over there and she, I, she says, well, let’s talk about it, you know, is this something you would love to do? And so we walk through it and she coaches me on it, and I come back and tell him exactly what it is, how I will do this, what my terms would be. And he’s like, okay. So basically RV: to get back in. JJ: Yeah. Basically to get me back. They, he created a deal where if I wanted to leave again, I would leave with all of my ip. Wow. And so that’s lucky. I think. God. Yeah. So that’s lucky. I know. So when I was leaving, so then, because they owned your social media accounts, the books, everything, everything, everything. Like I, I was like, I’d have to change my name. So, so now, this was two years ago, or a year and a half ago. ’cause it was December [00:14:00] at a four MI talked to him and I go, I’m like, miserable. This is like killing my soul. And he goes, all right, I, I get it. And I’d already talked to Mary about like, what would it take for me to buy back? Like, ’cause I was looking at what things would I need to get back from them because it was really only the product line. What was gonna happen is if I was gonna split, I get all my stuff, my programs, my, but they would keep the product line. And RV: you, when you came back in the second time. You basically pre you, you, you almost created like a prenup. You pre-negotiated it Really did. Yeah. You pre negotiated. It’s kinda like the postnup uhhuh. JJ: So, so basically I pre, I, I had it so that anything that was my IP would come back to me. If we split up, they would keep the product line. But the reality is the way the business had shifted and we were starting to turn the ship, but you know, that, I mean, turning the ship around is a two to three year deal. RV: Well, there’s a, you know, in the investor community, so like in the real, like private equity, it’s that they, they say never catch a falling [00:15:00] knife. That’s the, that’s the way they describe it is like, you don’t wanna buy a business as it’s going down. And it’s like, it’s, you’re trying to grab a falling knife. It’s, it doesn’t, it’s not easy. It’s not a good situation usually. And they JJ: literally gave me like a year to turn it around with no cash to run ads or anything else. It was like, okay, turn it around, but you don’t have any money to do it. RV: So organic was the plan, like you gotta rebuild all the trust. So I came back in JJ: and I’m like. All right. Well, I’ve managed to start businesses with no money before. Let’s see what we can do. And so I had no budget to run any kind of ads or anything else. I now had a shell of a team. I brought in one gal who had helped Mark Hymen, so she really knew how to do these things. But I had a shell of a team and no budget. We still managed to turn this thing decently around in that amount of time, but we, I was like, I, I can’t do the things I want to do. Mm-hmm. I can’t in every, they, every month they were trying to cut more costs and I’m like. We’re profitable. Like [00:16:00] me start to, this is classic financial RV: thinking. This is classic. Like, it’s so awful. Just cut expenses. Yeah. To get, get your way out. I’m like, how JJ: do we get our way out if we don’t run ads and, and start to, yeah. And they didn’t understand. They don’t understand this business of social media and podcasts and speaking and where, where you really need to spend your time. So I bought it back and the big bummer, I was like, you RV: bought your, I bought every non-product stuff back. Well, JJ: so, no, I got that back. The other side was the products. And I’m like, okay, I’m gonna have to start a whole new product line. Ah, because they manufactured the products and they had reignite wellness. Are these RV: products, these are like, like supplements? Supplements, like physical products. Yeah. JJ: So I, I was like, all right, what’s it going to take for me to create this new product line? And then I’m gonna have time when I don’t have products. ’cause new manufacturing, new products, you have to go through a process that’s at least four months. Per product. RV: This is like formulation and stuff you’re [00:17:00] talking about? Oh yeah. JJ: Yeah. My 4:00 AM formulations that I’ve been doing, which by the way, AI is fantastic for formulating products. Interesting. RV: Yeah. JJ: So once you have the idea, but I ended up being able to buy the product line back for a dollar. RV: Why? ’cause it was losing money. JJ: I still, I know that the founder put his thumb on something. How did this happen for you? The first thing that happened is I talked to their current CEO and, and the founder told me what the CEO thought would be a great idea, which was for me to pay him 10%. Of the gross for 10 years to get the product line back. And I basically told him, you must be high. Yeah. JJ: You know, so Jonathan told me the whole thing and he was like, you know, be cool about it. I’m like, oh yeah, I’ll be great. And we were actually at a Dr. Joe Dispenza meditation event. And my husband’s like, all right, now you’re like, very zen and you’re gonna get on this call. And I’m like, I’ve got it. I’m good now. Do you know what the color code personality test is? RV: [00:18:00] I, I think I have done this before. JJ: Okay. So, but I don’t RV: know it well enough to like recite it back to you. So there’s JJ: red, blue, yellow, white. RV: Okay. JJ: White likes to keep the piece. I am not a white yellow. Likes to have fun. Okay. Blue is very relational and intimacy and reds are very direct and they wanna lead. I am Super Red. The guy who taught us the color code, he goes, we’ve never in the company seen anyone at this level. So I’m like, don’t worry, honey, I’ve got it. You know, about five minutes into this conversation I am like, you must be high blowing it. I’m like, Tim, stop it. You know? Anyhow, talk did not go well. And I’m thinking, oh great, well I guess I’m gonna have to like start my own product line. Somehow the founder managed to get this together where I got to buy the product line for a dollar, but I basically told the guy, I go, listen, that’s not gonna work. [00:19:00] And here’s the thing. We separate our ways and tomorrow I tell everyone why I’ll never use those products again. And you know what’s gonna happen, you’re gonna get stuck with them. Mm. So RV: interesting. You cast a very, I cast a negative vision. I was a a very negative and use that to buy it. To buy your back. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about this, this is a a little bit off what we were just talking about. But even in your story, you talk about the amount of investment that you do personally, like at your level. You, you, you’ve invested so much into masterminds and coaching programs. Oh my gosh. Well, JJ: I’m here. I’m here investing in you. That’s right. You better be good. RV: That’s right. I promise. It’ll, it’ll, it’ll, it’ll be at least above average. Um, and, um, what, what’s your philosophy on that? Because I think, I think a lot of people would assume someone at your level, you know, even with your personal brand, the story, I mean even to, you know, just to be transparent, what you’re sharing there with me, [00:20:00] right? It’s like, look at the, you know, you’ve done all these things, you’ve been around, um, to accomplish things that people dream of, and, and here you are still investing. In yourself at this stage in your career, learning and growing, and you’ve got people who invest with you to learn from you. So what’s your philosophy there on personal growth and how much has that played a, a, a role in your journey, do you think of building your personal brand? JJ: So when I was 30, I had my first mentor, which I didn’t realize I had a mentor. Um, she’d actually been a personal training client in my twenties. And I was in Miami. I was in Fort Lauderdale and I was going to University of Miami. And I remember walking down the beach with her and she said, so why are you getting your wiring school? And I was getting my master’s in exercise fi and, and I go, I want to be more successful. She goes, oh, now she grew up in a trailer, had a high school education, [00:21:00] and she lived in a multimillion dollar house. And a place in Fort Lauderdale called Millionaire Mile. Mm-hmm. Where the beach is on one side of your house, and then you have a little street, and then the intercoastal is on the other. Okay. So that’s where she lives, right? Mm-hmm. And she goes, huh? She goes, all right, what are you gonna do after you finish your graduate degree? And I said, I’m gonna go get my PhD. RV: Okay. JJ: And she goes, huh, why? And I said, well, because I wanna be more successful. Duh. She goes, I could teach you to be more successful. I can teach you to make money. I go, this is not about money. ’cause I was in my twenties, Uhhuh, you know, no kids or anything else. I’m like, oh gosh, are you kidding? So I go back, I, I leave, um, Fort Lauderdale to go to USC to work on my PhD. And, and she goes, she said to me [00:22:00] on the beach, she goes, well, when you are 30, you’ll start thinking about money. Things will shift. She’s so future paced me. Right. So I’m 30. She sends me a little box. It’s a, um, a little VHS tape and it’s from New Skin International. Yeah. And New Skin was going the direct sales company into interior design nutritionals. Okay. And she sends me this box with, and then a box that’s got the, um, weight loss program. And I remember watching this tape and it’s people running all over the place in New York City, and there’s a clock ticking. It’s talking about trading time for money. And I’m like, ah. JJ: Because at the time I’d started at UCLA as a personal trainer paying my way through school and grad school. And at the time I was making like six figures in cash. Mm-hmm. But I could JJ: never make more than that. Then I started to hire some trainers to work for me. Then I started to go speaking because speaking would pay me. First it was a thousand dollars and it was $2,000, but it was still, I was like. F stuck. Right? And so the [00:23:00] minute I saw that tape, I’m like, oh my gosh. I dropped outta my PhD program. I got rid of all of my stuff. I drove across the country and I moved in with her and she’s like, I’m like, teach me. Right? And what I didn’t know was she was actually the biggest mindset trainer of the distributors in New Skin. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. And so I move in with her and all she does is coach me on mindset. And it just becomes like, there are no, you know, there are no limitations. The only limitations are in your mind, there are no victims, only volunteers. Like thoughts create all of the Zig Ziglar, you know, Wayne Dyer, all of that. She turned me on to Nightingale Conant, like I was managing everything, thinking mindset. And so that’s, that’s how everything shifted. And then after that, I just, it just changed the way I operated. Right. Dropped outta the PhD program, started thinking about how I could duplicate myself into other people. Mm-hmm. But I didn’t have [00:24:00] another mentor until 2007. And I was listening, uh uh, I was talking to, do you know who Joe Cola is? Uhuh. So Joe Cola is very well known in the health business. He started the biggest natural website in health and I was launching a book, and Fab Mancini was like, you should go meet with Joe Mercola. So I did. And Joe said, jj. And this was 2000, it must have been 2005 or 2006. It was maybe 2006. I was on Dr. Phil every week. I had a website. It didn’t have that little box to get your name and email. Mm. JJ: So I have my website. I’m on Dr. Phil. I’m thinking someone is gonna discover me. I’m working as a nutritionist now. I’ve learned how to package things into programs. I’ve got some people working for me, but I’m still stuck. Right? Like I’m still like trying to figure out how you get past 25 KA month. RV: And this is 2007. So you’ve been at this for seven? This is like 2005. [00:25:00] Yeah. Okay. So you’ve been at this for years. But I JJ: mean, literally I started as a trainer in college, right? There were a couple of us, mark Sisson, Tony Horton Body by Jake. Like the first personal trainers. Yeah. JJ: You know, in the eighties. So I’ve been at this. For decades, RV: uhhuh, JJ: and I can’t figure out how to get past, like, you know, so figure RV: out like 20,000 a month, 25,000 a month in revenue. Yeah. Like JJ: stuck. Stuck. RV: And that’s revenue. That’s not income. You’re, that’s revenue you’re paying. Right. But I don’t JJ: have a whole lot of ex, I, I don’t have a ton of expenses. Sure. But still I’m stuck. Um, and I’m also teaching doctors how to put supplements in their practices. So I’m getting commissions off of that, but I’m still stuck. I’m like, like 300 grand. Okay. Stuck. And I’m making, yeah, I’m netting maybe about 150, 200. And so I go, I’m sitting at dinner with Joe Cola and he goes, the money is in the list. And I go, what list? Yeah, JJ: which list? Show me the list. I’ll get the list. And it was the [00:26:00] list that if you had the box on your website, I would’ve had. And so literally he tells me this and he says, go read the four hour work week. And so I read the four hour work week. I’m convinced that there’s a missing chapter. Somewhere because like I I, the joke is I read the four Hour Workweek and started working 80 hours. I started like Gary Veen, as did all of us. Yeah, yeah. I’m like, and uh, but when I read it something, there was a, something about Dan Kennedy in there and then I like. Was Google, Dan Kennedy. And then he was doing a call with Ali Brown. And I remember listening ’cause it was a woman because instead of all these dudes and I went, I bought her Boost business with your own easing. And I bought this little program for $197 and I started an easing. And then that started actually doing something and building a list and making money. And then I went to one of her workshops and she was selling a mastermind and I didn’t know what a mastermind was. Mm-hmm. And [00:27:00] it was a hundred thousand dollars. She had an $18,000 and a a hundred thousand dollars one. And before I knew it was a hundred thousand dollars, she was talking about this and how elite it would be. And there were very few people and they were gonna be the best people. And I’m like, o, obviously I’m gonna join that. And I told everyone around me I was gonna join that. And then she said what it was and I wrote a bad check and joined it. Mm mm JJ: Which I don’t tell, like do not do that. Um, but it changed everything. RV: So you joined this a hundred thousand mastermind JJ: I did with no money. I like was, did not have the money to join this. And then you were like, RV: I’m gonna do this. You know what, I’m gonna figure it out. Yeah, it it paid JJ: off. It totally paid off. I think one of the best things you can do, ’cause, ’cause constraints, foster creativity, but like if you can totally afford something, you don’t pay attention. Like if you could charge people just slightly more than what they perceive they could afford. ’cause a lot of that’s just a perception anyway. They’d pay a lot more attention. That’s the secret right [00:28:00] there. It JJ: is. Like that first easing course I bought for 197 bucks was a stretch. So I paid attention and I put it all to use. And when I joined that a hundred thousand dollars mastermind, I burned out my adrenals crazy that year. ’cause I was gonna squeeze every penny out of it. RV: Uhhuh. JJ: But I mean, that first year I came in with nothing. Like, I thought I had a plan, scrap the plan. I made $550,000 and I felt like a failure because Lisa Sasovich was in, and she went in and went from I think like 130,000 to 3 million, and I’m like, okay. I, I, I’m lame. RV: I mean, this is an interesting thought as to go, you know, in some ways it’s a service to charge people a little bit more than what they’re comfortable with because that makes them show up as a bigger version of themselves. Mm-hmm. That makes them pay attention. It makes them invest, it makes them, like, it puts their back against the wall to where they, they activate versus if everything is comfortable, you just don’t change. Like, you don’t show up, you don’t do the work. [00:29:00] That’s, I think that’s a really important lesson for anyone that struggles with charging more for what they do. Thinking that, well, I want change the world. I want to help people. I just wanna give it away. Not realizing that. In many ways, it is the fee that you’re charging that causes the transformation for the person, because now they’re, now they’re invested in doing the work. JJ: I don’t know if you know Simon Bowen, but he has a great statement. So I, I always love to credit people that I, if I can remember where I heard it, and he talks about the moment they pay, the healing journey begins. Mm. What you said is never more true than in the health space where people have so much money, mindset issues and they feel like they shouldn’t charge if they’re healing people and they try to give it away for free. And it’s always something I coach our members with because every single one of them has tried to do this for free. I have multiple times, I’m like, how many times do I need to learn this lesson? If you give it away for free, no one pays attention. And the more [00:30:00] they pay, and that’s all relative, it’s like lifting heavy weights, right? It’s heavy for them. The more they pay attention. It’s like you, you’ve got to charge people, so they will actually. Take it seriously. RV: Yeah, I mean it’s, it’s interesting to me, you know, like we have some pretty high profile clients at Brand Builders group and, and, and it’s like you also attract a really amazing group of people, you know, but assuming you’re charging something that you can deliver upon. But, uh, I think that’s super powerful. Okay, so this leads me to one of the other things I wanted to ask you about. Health is like one of the most noisy, if per, if not perhaps the noisiest space on the planet. I mean, you have health, money, relationship, spirituality, like those are the topics that apply to everybody. And because they apply to everybody, there’s a a million bazillion people. Somehow. You have managed through your journey to become one of the most recognizable health [00:31:00] voices, experts, influencers, whatever term you want to use. Why do you think you were able to do that? You know, I, I’m interested in the how, but I’m, I’m actually interested in why, why do you think you actually broke through the noise in one of the most competitive populated topics and spaces when so many people want to do it and somehow you managed to do it? JJ: Hmm. I’m looking at the different, different levels of breaking through and I would say I just kept taking the next step out of my comfort zone. And I was just driven, like when I got to Palm Springs, I moved to Palm Springs from North Carolina and I had two young babies, like literally a six month old and a year and a half old, [00:32:00] and a, a husband who didn’t wanna work and we were not independently wealthy. Hmm. He just. Like had his parents had pushed him into law. He hated law. He wanted to teach tennis. And, um, I was like, uhoh, you know. And so I went into overdrive and looking back, like the less he did, the more I did, so the less he did, so the more I did. So the, like, you, you look at it now and go, you know, it, it, it just was a, a perfect storm. Like he’s the sweetest guy, but I was like, okay, this is ridiculous. But because of that, I was like, I have to be successful to take care of these kids. And so I’m looking at Palm Springs and I’m going, Hmm. Affluent area. I can pull this off. How do I market my business? I’ll get on local tv. Hmm. JJ: And, and I just was on local TV all the time. And speaking at all the country clubs and everything else. Well, the minute I was on local [00:33:00] tv, um, you know, then all of a sudden I’m used to being on tv. So that when I met a doctor who needed help with the Dr. Phil show, I was used to being on tv. I went over, it wasn’t my first rodeo. You know, people always talk about how they wanna be on this big show or big podcast. I go, you actually don’t wanna do that until you’ve gone, like, I remember being on one of the, I agree a hundred RV: percent with this. Oh my JJ: gosh. I was on local TV and I didn’t know about powder. So I taped a show and we were doing like some of the segments we were gonna air on the show at a gal’s house. And for six hours I did not put any face powder on. It was very hot. It looked like literally my face was like a swimming pool. Hmm. You know, I also didn’t know about like, best sides in your hair. So I did a whole thing where I looked like cousin, it, you know, that’s nice. Like, oh my gosh. So you just learn. And I remember, um, just taping a segment where they go, listen. If you’re doing tv, it’s sound bites. I’m like, sound [00:34:00] bites. You know? So I learned so much stuff before I ever got to Dr. Phil or Dr. Oz, or Access Hollywood or any of these things. I knew what to do. So that then they would call you back, you go on national TV and flub it, you’re done. RV: Mm-hmm. So, uh, some of what I hear you say in terms of answering that question is you succeeded because you had to, it’s almost the same as the answer to your question about like the a hundred thousand dollars mastermind that you joined. It’s like, well, I got my investment back on it because I had to. JJ: Right. Well, and here’s the, here’s the thing. What I’ve discovered about myself is that I, and I, I, you know, that I would start to put myself into situations that would force me to have to be successful. So after, you know, after that, like the Virgin Diet. I remember my son was in a very serious accident where he nearly died. And the night it happened, a month before the book was gonna [00:35:00] launch, I literally was holding this one finger. He’s in a coma, promising him that I was gonna bring the troops and do everything it needed to be to get him to be 110%. And then walking out the door. And Ali Brown called me and she goes, now I know you’re really going to nail this. And Brendan Burchard actually flew into LA to help me with the book launch. Like, wow. But I knew, I was like going, oh, this, this book has to be a massive success because this is how I’m gonna bring my son back to life. And so like, I kept getting into these situations where success wasn’t optional. And then after the, after that, I started to put myself into situations to make it happen again, because I kind of felt like it’s sort of like a, a, you know, a professional athlete who. Thinks that they need a certain condition to be successful. You know, I do think we get too comfortable that you have to give yourself a [00:36:00] reason that you need to be successful. Otherwise you’re just gonna get to a place where you’re comfortable. Right. RV: You mind sharing with everybody what happened with your son? ’cause this was a pretty, this was a very horrific situation. This was a horrific situation. He was 12, right? He, he was 16. Oh, 16. JJ: 16. My, um, other son was 15 and it was literally like a month before the book launch. Um, it happened September 11th because I remember thinking, oh my God, it’s September 11th, you know? Yeah. Um, and the book Pubbed, I think early November, but we were starting all of the launch stuff in October and I’d been taping all the PBS special stuff that day, the things that I needed for the program for PBS. And so I was doing a PBS, special ed, all these things lined up. And I come home, my son goes out to walking, you know, at dusk to go to a friend’s house and gets hit by a car. Mm-hmm. And we don’t even [00:37:00] know what the heck happened. Um, we just know that this neighbor pulled around, saw a woman, get out of her car, gasp, drive off, and he literally was on the pavement. Uh, 13 fractures, torn aorta, multiple brain ble, brain bleeds in a deep coma, airlifted to the local hospital. And when we get there, now it makes sense the way they handled it. Um, fortunately my husband was a medical malpractice trial attorney in his old life. Right. So it made sense the way this was. The doctor wanted to handle it, and because of his background, it really helped us. Not have that happen. The trauma surgeon when we walked in said we needed to let our son die. That he sometime in the next 24 hours was gonna pass away that this aorta, every hour that chance of rupturing increased by 10% and we couldn’t airlift him to the next hospital ’cause he’d never survive it. And [00:38:00] even if he did, he wouldn’t survive the surgery. And even if he were to survive both, he’d be so brain damaged, it wouldn’t be worth it. Mm-hmm. So we’re listening to all this and my son Bryce is listening and my son Bryce now they’ve been around me with the mindset mentor who’s now completely how I live. And he’s used to me saying things like, you know, the only limitations are the limitations in your mind and thoughts create and blah blah. And he, so he is looking at this doctor and he goes, sounds like maybe there’s a 0.25% chance he’d make it. And doctor says, that’s about right. He goes, it’s not zero, you know, and, uh, good for him. Yeah. And. I literally walked out at that point and said, grant, what, what, what do you want? Because I’ve always been very connected with him. And I was like, you know, and I just heard a fight from me mom. Mm. And so my ex-husband’s like, we’re overruling you. And, uh, you know, and he started to use the litigious comments that a [00:39:00] medical malpractice attorney would use. Hmm. And so that doctor got into high gear, but you would understand it was Palm Springs, California. This doctor was used to dealing with 80 year olds, not a 16-year-old who was, looked like a linebacker. Yeah. And very stubborn, you know, he had a lot of muscle mass on him. That’s really what saved him. He had a family that would go all in, you know, and, and that’s what we did. We literally, like, I had Dr. Amon come into the hospital. I like, we went all in. We’re like, what do we need to do to bring you back out of this? But, uh, I was up against the wall again and I literally, all I focused on was. Grant’s gonna be 110% book is going to be huge. And I broke my very first million in business in October, sitting bedside with my son in a coma. And then I broke my second million in business at the next hospital we transferred him to in December. I hit the New York [00:40:00] Times list, and then I hit, I think it was number three, and I stayed on it for 26 weeks. Wow. And, and you know, I had rolled the dice so hard because A PBS special, there’s no guarantee it was a $200,000 investment. RV: You invested 200,000 uhhuh to be on tv JJ: to do the public to, when you do a public television, um, show, basically you fund it. Either PBS will fund some of ’em. Okay. But then you have no creative control. So you fund it. Now, Daniel Eman had kind of showed me the ropes on it and I’d gotten his old producer who did his and Pearl Mutters and hymens so and so I’d funded it and now I had to go to all of these PBS stations. But if the show doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. RV: Right. And it’s your money on the line. JJ: It’s your money on the line. So basically I’d gotten a half million dollar advance for this book. I’d invested it all in the [00:41:00] launch between PBS. ’cause not only do you have to fund the show, you have to fund the backend packages with all the books. Hmm. JJ: So, so you have the books with the, it’s books and a bunch of other stuff. So figure each one of those costs you about $25 to put together and you have to have at least a thousand of those. You’re RV: saying to sell them on the show, like Right. People watch the show, they buy the thing, but you gotta pay for the inventory. You gotta pay for the JJ: inventory in advance. And then PBS pays you. A month or two after the fact. Yeah. So you’ve gotta front all that. It’s RV: cash for nightmare. Mm-hmm. JJ: And you gotta go out to all these places. You gotta fly all these places, you know? And I had my book launch and my team like all these things. Wow. Yes. So I still remember this because I had taken the whole advance, invested in all of these things. And then I was doing a free plus shipping book launch to, to launch the whole thing off. And I had 11,000 books and we sold out of [00:42:00] those books in under 24 hours. Wow. And what I hadn’t planned on is that, and I didn’t, I was like, uhoh, now what do I do? I hadn’t planned on two things. I forgot about the amount that shipping would cost. Yes. JJ: And that I’d need another $50,000 for shipping and I didn’t have any money. And I was like, okay. Oh, come on. I remember walking through going, are you kidding? So I was like, $50,000 under and I ’cause you sold out of RV: everything. JJ: Yeah, because I’d forgotten about the shipping costs. I hadn’t factored them into that. Like you didn’t collect enough? I didn’t collect, I didn’t collect enough to cover extra shipping. I just forgotten it. It was another fee that I was like, oh shoot, I forgot that part. It all worked out. I don’t remember how, but it like showed up. ’cause I was like, come on. You know that it showed up and we sold out of all the books. So I literally called Mary Agnes, who you will meet tomorrow. And I’m like, we need a guide. And here’s what’s crazy. So [00:43:00] we create a guide. So everyone now, because we have all these people who were helping because they really wanted to help, especially now because of grants. So they’re all now sending to the guide. So we gotta, we had like over a hundred thousand opt-ins. Between the free plus shipping and the guy, like crazy amount of stuff going on. So it actually catapulted the whole thing. Hmm. So, yeah, broke my first million, broke my second million, broke 6 million the next year. I mean, it just went ba boom. RV: And then your son survived. And JJ: my son. So, you know, he comes outta the coma. And by the way, when people come out of the coma, it is not like tv. Hmm. JJ: You know where they come. I thought he would, the doctor said when he comes outta the coma, it will be ugly. So I thought he would come outta the coma and scream or something. And he comes outta the coma and he stares off into space and he had cast on his leg still. He had a cast in his arm. And all he did was move one arm back and forth for [00:44:00] days and stare off in space. And I’m like, oh no. You know, uh oh. And so I started doing everything I could to try to wake up all of his different senses. I brought in popsicles, I brought in aromatherapy. I would like, just, and he just started coming through, you know? Hmm. But it was, it was like, it was such a mindset management thing. ’cause I had, I just would not allow myself to see him anything but 110%. But there were times that it’d be like uhoh, it’d be like a Friday night in the hospital. I’d be all by myself. ’cause my, uh, ex-husband and son were home in Palm Desert and I was in LA and the hospital would give me a room to do podcast interviews. I was doing LA TV shows. Wow. And it was just craziness. Crazy. RV: And then he, but he eventually came out of a coma and then JJ: he came out of the coma and then he was in, and when they come out of a coma, it’s ugly for months. [00:45:00] Years. It’s not ugly for a little while. It’s, it’s ugly and they have no filter. So he would go between, he would get like kind of scary, violent where they’d have to medicate him down and they didn’t know how to handle him at that hospital. It wasn’t a rehab hospital. So we then got him over to Children’s Hospital. So we had him there for a couple months and then it was really clear. I was like, I think we could do better at home. They wanted to keep him there for months and months and rehab him. I’m like, I think we can do this. We got him into like a really great training gym and we just did it at home. And that’s where honestly, my ex-husband’s like the most amazing human for what he’s been able to do with my son. Wow. JJ: And bring him back. But you know, I mean, he didn’t know how to talk. He could, I mean, couldn’t remember anything. He had to learn how to walk again, everything. RV: But he did. He did. Ultimately, he runs, however, how many years did that take to where he, he recovered? JJ: It took about a year and a half to [00:46:00] really bring him back. Mentally. He had worked with a speech therapist, like to even know, like, that’s an apple. You know, everything, you know, find words, put words together again. Wow. Um, it’s, yeah, it was crazy. RV: And meanwhile, you’re paying for all those bills and trying to get this amount, the amount of money. JJ: I’m like, okay. He’s like the $20 million, I mean, the amount of, because when you look at what it costs, the, a lot of the things that really were instrumental in bringing ’em back are not covered by insurance. Mm-hmm. Like we did stem cells right into his spine. I had a great doctor who was kind of at the forefront of all of that. We did neurofeedback, we did hyperbaric, we bought a hyperbaric. I mean, we just so many different things because fortunately. I’m in the field. Yeah. And I have all these amazing friends. Friends, yeah. Who know all this incredible stuff. So we were able to do a lot of stuff. But I, you know, nutrition was one of the first things. RV: Yeah. That, that, that’s [00:47:00] such an incredible story. And I’m so glad. I mean, that he recovered, you know, there’s, there’s this theme that I’m seeing with your life and this journey of, it’s like, I’m investing to the point of discomfort. I’m in this uncomfortable situation. I’m succeeding. ’cause I have to, you know, it, it also, as I’m listening to you talk, I think there’s a lot of people have this pride point of like, I’ve never spent money on ads. Right. And people will say that like, I did X, Y, Z without spending money on ads. And every time I meet a hu, like a very successful personal brand, it’s like. You know, they spent tons of money on advertising coaching. Like, it’s, it’s the opposite. It’s not the pride point of like, I spent nothing. It’s, I invested and reinvested as fast as I could. Yeah. Am I, am I hearing it accurately in your story? That’s, yeah, JJ: that’s, that’s how I’ve looked at everything. Like a book advance to me. It’s like, okay, then you invest in marketing. You know, it’s not, can I afford it? It’s like you can’t afford not [00:48:00] to. You look at the most successful people, they’ve never done it by themselves. If I could go back and tell my younger self, like it would’ve been hire mentors, find groups way earlier, I just didn’t even know they were a thing. Hmm. JJ: And you know, I mean, one of the devastating thing of the last five years is not being able to run any ads. I mean, imagine that like having a company that stopped all your advertising. Hmm. I mean, crazy. Yeah. Crazy stuff. Yeah. Well, it’s a, RV: it’s interesting. I mean, so we, you know, we, we built, our first company was an eight figure business. We never spent a dollar on ads. Brand builders group. We started in 2018. We built that to eight figures in five years. Less than half the time of the first company. Never ran money on ads. And now I’m like, waking up to go. That shouldn’t, that’s not a, that shouldn’t be a pride point. Yeah, that should be a, like, what are you doing? But I was doing the same JJ: thing, I’ll tell you like, like I [00:49:00] was, you know, one to two to six, no ads, never ran any ads, sold the company like we’d done a little bit, barely, and then brought the company back. I’m like, get the ads rolling. You know, it’s like, it’s like, why wouldn’t you? Pour a little gasoline on the fire, why wouldn’t you use all of these different things? RV: Mm-hmm. Well, I, it, it, it’s, I don’t know. It’s like sometimes people think it’s cheating or they think, uh, they shouldn’t have to do it. Or I think particularly for our audience, you know, we, we say that we serve mission-driven messengers. I think that there are a lot of people in the world who think, well, I’m, I’m an artist. I’m an expert. I’m sort of above advertising. I, or I’m above the marketing. And what I’ve realized is, no, there’s two parts of your art. There is the art of what you do, and then there’s the art of telling people about what you do. Marketing is art. Marketing is part of your art. Otherwise, you’re just creating [00:50:00] stuff that nobody sees, nobody listens to, nobody benefits from. And so, you know, I wonder how much sometime is, sometimes it’s just that, like, oh, I’m, my stuff is so good. People should have to find me. Versus the humility of going. I, I don’t deserve, like, I have to go fight and, and hustle and, and tell people that I’m here and that you know, that what I’ve created, because otherwise I’m just gonna be overrun by other people who are, JJ: well, what I used to see on, on Dr. Phil is that a lot of the experts they would have on TV weren’t the best experts. They were just well spoken. And I, it was interesting at the time because I was going into a lot of different doctor’s offices, helping them put nutrition into their practices. But I couldn’t just do that. I had to start with the marketing piece with them because I would meet some of the most brilliant, brilliant practitioners. But they couldn’t explain what they could do in [00:51:00] a way that anyone would ever understand and grab. And they were the best kept secrets. And meanwhile, the person who wasn’t really very good at what they did is sitting here on national TV and getting all of these, you know, all these accolades. I’m like, this, this is mixed up. It’s backwards. So you owe it to your patients. If you really want to transform the world, you’ve gotta be exceptionally good at marketing. And you don’t have to, it’s the, you know, Ben Hardy who, not how you don’t have to learn all the things, but you better get your messaging down. You’ve gotta get your messaging down. Mm-hmm. You’ve JJ: gotta be able to do a really good signature talk. You better be able to nail an interview. You’ve gotta be able to tell your stories. Like 20 years ago, you didn’t have to do all this stuff. You wanna be an expert. Nowadays, it’s skill development. RV: Hmm. Yeah. I, I think that, that, that. Is it, it’s a much more competitive landscape. I mean, personal brands, and [00:52:00] this is part of why I wanted to interview you and hear your story about selling the company and all of that. I think personal brands are trending towards a level of sophistication that is competing with like private equity and normal entrepreneurship. Right? They’re realizing that like you, you know, this is big business. Uh, I mean, co I was on Cody Sanchez podcast recently. She’s one of our clients. I mean, they have a team of very sophisticated people who are running an operation. We see someone like, oh, here I am on social media. Like, it’s just like I flipped out my phone and it’s like there’s an army of people. There’s ad spend, there’s data analytics. There, there are, there are world class employees who are very skilled, who are, are we are now competing against, even though it looks like, oh, this is a person with a phone. But to, to make that kind of global impact. I think that’s. I think that’s trending more and more, especially as the power moves from media companies to individuals. Money is moving from media companies to like [00:53:00] personal brands and so it’s like the sophistication is also coming along with that. It’s like you don’t just throw up a website like it’s, it’s, those days are over. It’s a big machine now. JJ: The days where you could write an email and send it and people opened it are over the days where you could invite someone to your teleconference call and sell a five part series are over. Yeah, but here’s what’s exciting. This is the era of the brand. It is the era of the personal brand because of ai. I believe that this is where we really have an opportunity if we develop our skills. And again, talk, talk about that. I wanna RV: hear, I want to hear as someone who’s been in this industry for a while, like you, this wasn’t, you were in this industry before. Personal brand was really like an industry. You’ve been at the top of this game. Tell me about ai. What do you see happening with ai? How does it affect personal brands? JJ: Well, I think what’s [00:54:00] gonna happen is because so many, it’s so crazy to think of the things that we’re using AI for, when, when you figured it would be much more for like lower tasks, not the more creative tasks, but it will never replace that person telling the story. You know, it’s, it’s, I know they keep saying, oh, you’re gonna have the AI avatar, but still the podcast, the, the standing on a stage speaking, it’s not gonna be able to replace that hopefully. Right. And so what does that mean? That means we have to be really good at being able to tell our story, at being able to, to relate at being able to interview, to be interviewed. We have to sharpen those saws. That’s where I think we need to really double down is, is learn to be a better speaker, lean into great speaker trainings, you know, learn from people like my buddy Lisa Nichols. Um, you know, I am constantly doing speaker training. Mm. Because I think [00:55:00] that skill is the single best skill we could have, and you can never be too good at it. RV: Mm. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Um, I’ll make a little secret. So Ed Millet and I are working on a speaker training thing that we haven’t announced yet, but you can stay tuned for that because, but that’s so powerful to hear about, like this idea of. It’s the human skills, like leaning into the human skills. ’cause AI takes over all the more like operational stuff, the researching, the prep, like a lot of those things help. But yeah, there is something just magic about this. You know, we only started doing these in-person podcasts like a few weeks ago. Uh, we’ve been hosting this show for seven years, but we didn’t invest in having the space and everything. And it’s just like there’s a magic to this that is just so much better, so much better. It’s so much better. It’s, it’s harder to coordinate, especially with, you know, people who are busy. But, um, that’s amazing and, and encouraging. To me, that is an inspiring to me to hear you say that, to [00:56:00] go no matter what happens with ai, more and more it’s just gonna create this, almost like this craving for the attraction of the, the human interaction, the human element. And therefore investing in those skills, which in some ways maybe have gotten pushed down in the past maybe 10, 20 years of the soft, the soft skills. They’ve been like the soft skills. Are kind of coming back Right. And being more, more important. So, uh, JJ, this has been amazing. Uh, where do you want people to go if they want to learn more about you? Stay connected. Uh, JJ: well, jj virgin.com is mine again. Boom. Yay. So, two things. That’s, that’s my consumer world. And then we also have rebranded to Health Business Growth Collective. Mm-hmm. Which I like. It was so funny. We did all of our rebranding around our Mindshare collaborative and we did the new logos and everything else. And we were in London [00:57:00] last year and I woke up one morning, we were doing a meditation. I’m like, uhoh. We need to change the name and uh, ’cause we, we’d been doing some work there and I’m like, they don’t know what Mindshare is there. So I’m like, oh, I love it when that epiphany RV: comes after you’ve spent 50 grads. It’s always, it’s always after JJ: that it was like, we worked with left right labs. I’m like, oh. And so Tim pulls up and I think, you know what I’m gonna tell him on the plane. I’ll tell him on the plane from London to Tampa because he’s stuck there with me. So if he gets upset, he’s stuck RV: strategy. And JJ: literally he pulls off his eye mask after the meditation and looks at me. He goes, we need to rebrand. And I’m like, get outta my head. Oh wow. We’ll take it. Yeah. RV: We love that. So, so, yeah. And you have amazing people in this community. Oh my gosh, they’re incredible. We’ve had a couple of our clients that I know you’ve had a ma a massive influence on over their career and um, it’s just really, really great. Well, uh, jj thanks for [00:58:00] the stories. Thanks for sharing the experience and. Going on this journey. And, and I have to say, I’m, I’m so inspired by the fact that you continually, intentionally, deliberately stretch yourself just a little bit outta your comfort zone. JJ: We have to, well, I gotta tell you one thing sticks with me. This is my, my concept of how you can continually stretch yourself outta your comfort zone. And I think it all comes down to your physical body. When you do hard things, when you work out and you push yourself and you do hard things, it shows your, your mind. And actually, Dr. Andrew Huberman talks about this, like you form new neural pathways that tell your body you can do hard things. And so then you get faced with scary things in life and hard things in life. You’re like, I can do these hard things. So I know this is a business podcast, but. Go do hard workouts too. RV: I love it. I love it. Well follow jj, give her some love [00:59:00] online. Say hello, drop a comment, share this episode with somebody who needs to see it, and push yourself outside of your comfort zone so that you can, you can confidently declare and build the, just the, the, the promise of knowing you can do hard things. It’s, it’s not the thing you have to avoid. It’s the thing that you have to do. That is the key to everything else. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.