Ep 301: Turning Your Expertise Into a Certification Program with Lethia Owens | Recap Episode
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, y’all AJ Vaden here. This is the recap episode of my awesome conversation with Lithia Owens who bless her heart. Never corrects me when I use my very Southern accent and say, LA you it’s Lithia Lithia tomato, tomato sweet sweetness. Never corrects me, but prop proper name introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
She’s a speaker, she’s an author just a wealth of knowledge, but here’s a couple of my takeaways. Actually. I have my handy dandy and yeah, I took a lot of notes. Yeah, this is a really good episode. So here’s the first thing. Here’s my first thing about three takeaways. Number one is this concept of game changers and what is a game changer and what does it take to be one? And I loved this conversation so much. It is so close to my heart because a game changer has nothing to do about your resume and your credentials has nothing to do about what you do. It has everything to do with who you are and who you’re willing to be. And it doesn’t matter about how much money you have and how many resources or your education your socioeconomic status being a game changer has, has something or has everything to do with one question.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And it’s the question that you ask. And the only question that you should be asking is what could be not what is not, what was, but a game changer asked the question of what could be and how could this be different? How could it be better? It’s believing deep in your core that you were meant to do something that you were put on this planet, you were put in this world to achieve something great. And that may be being the mother to a child. That’s gonna do, you know, world changing things that that could be right, being a leader of a team or a company. It could just be being that voice to someone in a moment that they were at their breaking point, right. Being a game changer says like, how could this be different? Right. It’s like, and that is, that means open your eyes and look for opportunities to be a game changer for someone else.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And it’s not about who, it’s not about what you’re doing. It’s about who you’re being. Right. And I think about it’s I heard this on the radio the other day about this woman who had called in, I was listening to way FM here in Nashville, Tennessee. And they were talking about how, like, for some weird reason, they were in line at a red light and they could just noticeably tell that the woman who was driving in the car next to them was just distraught, hysterical was crying. And they said, for whatever reason, I just, just felt prompted to do something, say something. And so they were trying to get this woman’s attention and were like down the window, roll down the window. And they shared some words of inspiration and they exchanged numbers. And however, the rest of the story took, I, I don’t remember to be honest.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
But what I do remember is that the woman pulled over and the other person pulled along and as they were talking she had shared some very horrible news that had just happened. And later comes to find out it’s like she was contemplating suicide. And it’s like, you can be a game changer to a stranger by just taking a moment of going, I don’t know what’s going on, but like, do you wanna talk like I’m, I’m here. Game changers also is it’s building businesses, it’s leading teams, but it’s, there’s not any one definition to being a game changer, but it’s asking the question of what can I do and what could be like, how could this be different and how can I be different and how can I be better? And how can I make my situation better? And I just, I love that because it applies to everyone in every stage of life, no matter what your position is, no matter what you’re doing, it’s are you asking the question of what could be like, what could be different?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
What could be better? I love that. So that so much second thing I loved and she said that being others focused is the way to success. Right? And I think that it’s contrary, a lot of people confuse building a personal brand with somehow being self-centered or self focused or self promotional. And it’s the opposite. It’s about being others focused and others promotional and others centered. And she and I are so aligned on this. And one of the things that I’ve just come to believe it’s like your personal brand is not about you. It’s about your audience, your personal brand is that you feel called to share a message that you believe at your core is going to help someone else. Right. It’s a mission driven messenger. It’s that core belief of like,
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I’m not perfect. I’m you know, not a billionaire, right? Not a multi like million dollar or multimillion follower, social media influencer. I’m not those things. I’m a mom, I’m a wife, I’m a small business owner. And I got something to share and I feel called to share it. And just believing it’s like that, what you have to say matters. And it’s focusing on the one, not the 1 million or even the 100. And I think being others focused really helps take your eyes off the numbers and gets your eyes back on the people. And I know it’s easy to get caught up with looking at revenue numbers and profit margins and numbers of followers and subscribers. And it’s like, if you take that all away, and if you knew that you made a difference or you changed one person’s life, would it be worth it to you?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And I bet most of you would say yes, like if something that you shared changed the trajectory of someone else’s life that is gonna have generational impact. And I bet most of us would say like at the end of my life, if I went back and I was like, I know what I did changed lives of people. We would feel good. Like we would say that was a life well lived. I doubt any of us at the end of our lives are gonna look back and say, man, I had so many social media followers
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So just focus on the one, the one person being others focused and right. Last thing I, I, that was gonna be five minutes, like where I’m at. Oh, seven minutes. Oh, alright. Last thing I’ll make this quick. As I love, this is just trying to be a legacy creator. I love that. And I love what she said. And I wrote this down. She goes, what I do today will have much more impact on my grandchildren than it will me, because I’m focused on being a legacy creator. So what are you doing today? How are you asking, like how could this be different for the generations that come after me, but how are you focused on creating a legacy that will have more impact for your children and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren that you would even have on your own life? So it’s creating a legacy of influence and impact for generations to come. Y’all so good. So inspiring. Go check this out, come back visit, visit us again on the influential personal brand until then. We’ll see you next time.
Ep 300: Turning Your Expertise Into a Certification Program with Lethia Owens
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, y’all and welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand podcast. This is AJ Vaden here I am. One of your co-hosts and I am joined today, Bobby one and the only lathe Owens, I’m gonna give her an official introduction in just a minute. But I’ve had the privilege to get to know lathe over the last, probably like almost a year. I think it’s been a year that we were introduced by a mutual friend and on our very first conversation, I was like, oh, I like this girl. These are my peoples. She’s such a joy. She just exudes joy. And if you’re not watching this, if you’re listening you’re not going to get to experience the full lathe experience because she’s just one of those people that as you watch her, she’s just got a smile on her face from ear to ear.
AJV (01:43):
She’s like one of those people that makes you in a better mood when you’re in her presence and so such a compliment to you, but I love her. I’m so excited that you’re on the show. So let me give everyone a quick official background on who you are. But VE Owens is a bestselling author. She’s a tech CEO and a branding expert and market domination, strategist domination like highlight that word.
LO (02:41):
Oh, it’s my pleasure. I mean, to get an afternoon that I get to spend with you and your tribe and a a R’s tribe is just a, I mean, a big blessing. So I’m excited to be here.
AJV (02:51):
Oh girl, we love you. I think you’re so awesome. And you might not be as familiar to some people listening here today. So in an effort to help them get to know you a little bit, I would love for you just to like give people a little bit of your back story, just a little bit of your background and help everyone get high level perspective of how you got, where you so fill in.
LO (03:17):
Well, one of the things that has been really foundational for me is words that my mom whispered into my ear. When I was a little girl, she said, you were born for greater than this. And we fled in the middle of the night out of a very dark situation. And that has always stuck with me. And so I’ve used a very I’ve used grit and I’ve used tenacity and persistence to, to be successful in school and, and so forth. But where things really started for me was I was being mentored by the VP of learning and development at state farm. I I’m a techie, I’m a geek, right? I love, you know, technology. And as my mentor, she basically one day just said, Lithia, you are bigger than any opportunity state farm could ever provide. And I thought to myself, AJ, I’m like, is this how they fire people nowadays?
LO (04:04):
Like, am I being fired today? What’s going on? Right. But she gave me one of the biggest gifts ever. She saw something in me that I didn’t yet see in myself. And she said, you were meant to speak, to teach, to train, to write books, and you need to go out into the world and be who you are called to be. And I thought, wow, two weeks later, AJ, I incorporated my first company. And 11 months later, I quit my comfortable cushy corner off his job at state farm insurance company. And I took on a role where I am unemployed at the end of every day, until someone else sends me an email or a contract to say, we are booking you for a keynote or training or something like that. But the, the beauty of that is that I entered into the speaking world really clueless in the sense that I didn’t have an experience or knowledge about how people took information and, and took the ability to transform people through speaking and, and coaching.
LO (05:05):
I didn’t really understand that, but I knew in my heart that there was something more that I was born for greater than where I was at the time. And so I went on to quit. My job, 11 months later started my company and was in 2009, ranked number, number eight among the top 30 brand Gus in the world. And I basically agent just served my way into building a very successful speaking coaching and digital marketing agency. So that really is kind of how I got started. And I have utilized everything that I’ve ever been taught. I’ve packaged everything about who I am, and I’ve learned to pull that together into a brand that that would allow me to influence others and to transform others and to serve others. And when I was building out my company, you know, when I first started AJ, I, I wasn’t focused on branding. I just wanna make that clear because I know some people listening are like, man, she started and she was so clear about what she wanted and where she was going. Well, when I first started, if you asked me what I spoke on AJ, I would say whatever, you’re writing a check for
LO (06:15):
Whatever you need. And if you have a C girl, right. And it was really interesting because two of my million dollar mentors basically said, we’re not going to take your call, take your email, don’t contact us until you figure out your lane, your needs. Like, what do you really want to contribute into who whom you want to contribute that? And that’s when I went back and did the work and realized that most of my life, I have found ways to just stand my ground, to stand out and to be more of who I really am. And that probably is my superpower, like, you know, being bold enough and brave enough to be more of who I really am. And I realized through research that most people don’t live their lives that way. And they live their lives according to what people want from them or expect from them and things of that nature.
LO (07:07):
So growing up and, and taking a job out of college where I was a minority, not just female, not just, you know, African American, but being a minority in the sense that I worked in a male dominated industry. So I was both black and female, and I was constantly pressured to be someone I’m not. And I said, no, I’m not going to you know, really most people want you to assimilate. And I said, no, I’m not going to assimilate because when you assimilate, you lose a part of who you are. Wow. But I said, no, instead I will integrate. I will find my fit. And then I will be great at that. And so when you look at what I did from a business perspective and a corporate perspective, I did the same thing. I showed up like a game changer, brave enough to be who I really am. And I found how out, how to integrate. So how do I integrate who I am into this corporate space and be the best at that? Or how do I in this big marketplace find my fit and integrate what I have to offer with what it is that people need. Right. So that’s pretty much kind of how I got my start and I have been loving, it’s been 17 years since I walked out of the door at state farm insurance company. And I would not trade anything for the world.
AJV (08:24):
Oh man. That’s so good. That’s like a tweetable moment. It’s like, don’t assimilate integrate. And so I think like there’s something really into there. I wanna talk about for just a second. And I’m just curious to get your thoughts on it. And you know, I have two young boys, right? I have a, a two and a half year old and just turned five year old. And my five year old has a lot of testosterone.
AJV (09:15):
Don’t coach it out of him. Don’t train it out of him, help him channel it in the right direction. And so we’ve been trying to do that. And then he’s on this little tee-ball team right now. And at his last tee-ball game, he’s straight up body tackles another five year old, his teammate because the teammate got the ball first and he wanted it. And so I like marked up to the fence and I’m like, Jasper James faded get over here. And he goes, what? And I’m like, you have to respect your teammates. You have to respect your coach. And the coach was trying to get Jasper up and Jasper swung at his coach. And I was like, in this day, I was like, please, no one, no one arrests me. Like this is not like what we do in our house. And then the coach came up to me after the game.
AJV (09:59):
And I’m, I so appreciate this. And I’ll never forget this moment. And he said, listen I know you think that’s too aggressive. And he goes, let me tell you an aggressive ball player is the ball player I want in my team. He goes, Jasper is by far the best thrower and the most aggressive person I have on this team. You let me handle this. You don’t worry about it, but I don’t wanna coach that out of him. And I kind of feel like God was just like using these other people in my life to remember that each of us are made original and unique. He made us don’t mess it up. Don’t mess it up. Don’t assimilate, figure out how to integrate these skillset. Right. Don’t assimilate, figure out how to integrate. I love that. And so for all of those people listening, right?
AJV (10:44):
It’s like at some point we assimilated out of our gifts. Most of us did. So how did you figure out, like how, what did you do and what would you tell to other people to figure out, like, what is that lane that you wanted to be in? And like, how did you figure out? It’s like, no, I’m not gonna speak on everything anymore. Like, this is what I speak on. This is what I speak about. I, I would just, I know, you know, we talk a lot about this at brand builders group. I’d love to hear your take on this for the audience. Like how did you do it?
LO (11:15):
Yeah. So it, it, that excellent question. I was very intentional, first of all, and it started with me believing that there was some, I didn’t know what it was. I, I really didn’t, but I, I just had this feeling that I was put here to make a significant and unique contribution. Mm. And so I started trying to figure out, like, what are the attributes about me that are different than other others? What, what about how I do what I do and how I show up, how I show up, that’s unique to me. And when we look at our individual attributes and, and our wiring, those are all clues to the greatness that lies within us and the game changer. Like I believe everyone is a game changer or, or can be a game changer. I’ll say it that way. And when we take a look at, at the, in inner workings of why do we think the way that we think and start asking those deep questions and really analyzing what comes forth?
LO (12:15):
What I realized was in answering questions that, wow, I have been a person who even a missed, like really strong pressure, have chosen to stand for what I believe mm. Have chosen to be who I feel I am. And I, through the research, realizing through, ask, answering questions and asking myself questions. It’s always the cube, BQ the question behind the question behind the question behind the question, you keep going deeper and deeper and deeper. And I began to see things I’d not seen before. And I began to see patterns about myself. And, and when you take a personal brand assessment or do work in that, in that realm, you know, the many questions you answer and the, the deeper you dig patterns start to, you know, emerge. And I started looking at the patterns and I realized that, you know, I lead through serving. So I realize I’m a servant leader.
LO (13:11):
I realize that I am willing to, to take risks. And I won’t let, what, I don’t know, stop me from going after what I want. So there’s this, this little, a part of my brand is a little bit naivete. Right. So I, I don’t know that I’m supposed to fail in the first seven years of being in business. Like, I, I, I, I didn’t know that. Right.
LO (13:55):
Right. And so that’s how I really like discovered. And this whole idea of being a game changer, Hey, Jay, I asked deep questions of myself. Like I even, for, for MI, much of my life didn’t even leverage the whole thing of being born for greater that my mother told me it was just something that was in the back of my head. But as I began to realize that that’s part of my unique thinking that I am born for greater than this, whatever. I hit a wall. It’s like, this is not, this is not my portion. This is not where I’m supposed to, to, to, to stay and realizing that there’s always something more. And then that word game changer came up in me and real. And I realized, that’s the name of my business game changers international, because my mother was the first game changer I ever met.
LO (14:38):
AJ. She took me out of a very abusive relationship that she had with her, her boyfriend at the time. And we fled with nothing. And my mother survived and thrived. My mother didn’t even graduate from school with a high school diploma. But yet when I became a teen mom, my mother quit her job, got a job at night as a security guard so that I could go back to school. So I traveled from Dallas to Dubai, inspiring and transforming people all over the world because they game changer named flora Lewis had enough compassion, wisdom, and courage to make a decision that would impact me positively, even though it was sacrificial to her. Right? so you don’t, it doesn’t matter what your income is and what your, your economic status is or where you come from. You can be a game changer because it’s all about your mindset.
LO (15:32):
Game changer, obsessed with what could be. My mother looked at me and said, what could be with my daughter? They don’t focus on the past, right? People who are game Watchers, they, they, they focus on what has happened. Game changers, make things happen. They’re innovators and early adopters. And they take risks when others want to play it safe. You know, some people won’t and I heard Simon Sinek say this. He said, some people won’t get a new cell phone until they can’t get service on their old cell phone. They won’t get a smartphone until their flip phone can no longer be serviced. Right? So their early adopters and their mindset is just very different. They’re always asking and thinking about what could be in the future. And that’s really how I’m wired. So when I began to label and, and really package how I’m wired, that’s where, you know, you know, integrate don’t assimilate came from, I was able to really study how I’ve been showing up in the world, cuz it it’s worked now, what can I learn from that? And how can I use that to actually package a personal brand for me that I can use to go out and serve the world.
AJV (16:39):
Oh man, you said two things in there that were so good. And I love this. I wrote em down. I literally was like, strike this down. You said game changers, focus on what could be game Watchers, focus on what happened. Like what was, and you know, it’s like, that is so good. It’s like, are you gonna be a part of change in the game or just watching the game? And you know, and I think so much of that to what you said, it’s like, what could be like what could be, and you know, the second thing I love, you said, I love this so much. It’s like one of my personal mantras right now is people. It is so much more important for us to focus on who you are, not what you do. And like, to what you said, it’s like, you do not have to have a diploma, money, credentials, anything to be a game changer in someone else’s life. That’s right. You just gotta show up. You gotta just be that person, like be who God intended you to be. And like, I mean, is your mom still around? And she’s still alive.
LO (17:36):
She’s been deceased now for 10 years. But she lives with me every day. Cuz I name all my cars after her. So when I give him a car, I’m like, come on flow. Let’s go
AJV (17:46):
I love it. I mean, I was like, say, if your mom is still around, you have got to send her this episode. My mom too is deceased. She died when I was 15, but it’s like what an honoring legacy for your mother to have of like she created an environment and a mentality of teaching me that I can, I can do it. Like I can do this and focusing on what could be. And I think like the great thing that I, I heard in that it’s like just that reminder to everyone who’s listening who says to yourself, I’m not smart enough. Right? Right. I don’t know enough. I don’t have enough experience. I don’t have enough resources. I don’t have enough money. I don’t have enough time. I don’t know the right people BS that is BS. Like that is nonsense. That is fear talking.
LO (18:35):
Yeah. And we have to check our BS, check our belief system. Mm-Hmm
AJV (19:00):
I talk about this, this concept of game changers for a second. Right? Mm-hmm
LO (19:28):
Yeah. It kind of goes back to the, the mindset that I talked about and thinking about, and, and actually being obsessed with what could be, but game changers are the world may think they’re really self centered, but I think game changers are very other centered because what a lot of what game changers do. And at the end of one of my videos where I talk it’s called born for greater, I say that my grandchildren will benefit from the things I do today, far greater than I will. And game changers, I think have a legacy mentality. And they’re what they’re doing. They’re doing because they want the gift that they’ve been given and the impact of that gift to live long after they’ve, you know, taken their last breath. Great example, being a game changer. When I started, when I had my first grandchild, when she was probably three years old, Andre and I decided that we would start a company that would become a company that each of our grandchildren would become a part owner with us in.
LO (20:32):
So that when they say grandma, I wanna go to this spring camp, there is money that they, you know, have access to, to be able to, to do. When they say, grandma, I wanna go to this college. If they don’t buy some chance, get a full ride scholarship. We have a company that can fund their education when they graduate and say, grandma, I wanna be a doctor and I gotta buy my first office. Hey, you are now part owner in an organization that you can take your distribution and do what with it, whatever you would. So if you wanna be a doctor, you now have an, an income that’s coming from a business that was created so that you would have options when you get older that’s game changing, thinking like game changer thinks, you know, game changer thinking that’s how game changers do things differently.
LO (21:19):
Like they don’t just say, Hey, I’m gonna start a business for me, which I did. My speaking business is for me, but our digital marketing agency, that money is being saved and put aside for our grandchildren. And it doesn’t really even take like game changers. Don’t have to be brilliant or smart people. They are compassionate people who love serving others and who wanna leave and, and they wanna influence and leave an impact. So when you, who are you leaving an impact for? It’s not for yourself because when you die, you can’t take it all with you and put it in a coffin. So it’s usually because you’re thinking about lasting impact and lasting legacy. So that’s what I want people to know about being a game changer. It’s hard for people, I think to be game changers when they’re very self centered and self focused and it’s all about them.
LO (22:07):
And we have had some people who are narcissist and egotistical, you know, become very successful in life. And while they may be successful and rich and wealthy, I would question sometimes if they’re really truly game changers. Yeah. So those are some things that I think really help us to identify and to see game changers. And I love celebrating people who are game changers. And I remember telling you that I have watched you and Rory for a while and I wanted to be a part of the work that you’re doing because of who you were. I didn’t even know what, what were, what, what, what, what, what is it that I’m actually, you know, I didn’t know what I was exactly getting. I knew you were a game changer that I wanted to connect with. And when you see a game changer, I think we benefit when we make decisions that put us in the space with them, because game changer me game changer. Like that’s when, when the two collide that is a formative for, you know, just amazing things to happen. So I’m just excited that, you know, we’re a year into our journey together, but I know it’s gonna be something fabulous.
AJV (23:11):
You know what, there’s so many things that I love what you’re saying. We’re so like minded in this, you know, element of like building a personal brand. And you know, somebody asked me the other day I was on this a little local TV interview and she said, well, what would you tell people who think that’s building a personal brand is very self-centered and ego focused. And I remember her asking this question, I kind of like glazed over. And I was like, I would say, they’re completely wrong. I like this. Isn’t about being self focused. This is about being others focused. I said the only thing that is self focused is think, thinking that your personal brand is about you. Like, that’s the thing that is self focused and yes, that you’ve really built a business around serving right. About being this other focused mentality.
AJV (23:58):
And you know, it’s a funny thing to kind, kind of say, it’s like, my business is serving and I’m gonna make money by serving, but it’s like, what better business to be in than being in the business of serving like, right. Like what, so I’m curious to just like, hear that philosophy around like this creating legacy through serving and building a business through serving, like, how do you do it? Like, how do you create that mindset? What would you tell anyone listening who’s like struggling to put themselves out there because they don’t wanna be seen as self-centered or self-focused or too self promotional? Like what would you say to all those things?
LO (24:39):
Well, I would just say that and be very transparent and say that I’ve lived on both sides of the coin. So growing up so poor that we couldn’t even afford to pay attention.
LO (25:39):
So I don’t have to strive. I don’t have to hustle. I don’t have to grind. I realized then that all I had to do was find my superpower, find my fit, the people I’m called to serve and then do that exceptionally well every day. Right? And so this whole idea of serving my way to the top and I, I often say I served my way into a better business because I stopped seeking profit. And this is gonna sound weird to a lot of people. I stopped seeking profit and I started seeking, how can I fulfill purpose? See prop profit follows, purpose, purpose. Doesn’t always follow profit, if that makes sense. So I realized that if I under, if I, if I can get clear about what I was born to do and the gifts that I have to contribute to the world, and I get really, really good at serving in that way, money would follow me all day long, all day long.
LO (26:34):
There’s even a scripture where God says everywhere you look, there would be blessings, blessings, blessings chasing you down. And I realized that, wow, I don’t have to seek money or wealth or fame. And actually the, actually the more successful I became, the less fame I wanted
AJV (27:46):
Oh yeah. And I think you said something that just hit me cuz he’s like, I love sub serving others and sometimes I have a really hard time receiving. And I think what I just heard that just hit me for the first time that hit me this way ever in my whole life is that by me, denying someone else to serve me, I’m denying them their own uniqueness and their own purpose.
LO (28:08):
Yes, absolutely. You got it. You
AJV (28:11):
Got it. I say, I think, you know, it’s like you get into this mode of like, it’s my job to serve and you forget, well, it’s also other people’s job to serve and it’s like, you can be the giver and the recipient at the same time. Absolutely. And it’s, I’ve never heard it click that way before. It’s like the moment that I deny someone else serving me, it’s like, I’m denying them. They’re God-given purpose and they’re calling in their life.
LO (28:33):
Yeah. And you’re robbing them of the opportunity to go through the same beautiful experience that you go through when you serve. Right. And you mentioned something, AJ, you said, you know, what about the people who are listening? Who, you know, don’t know if, if they’re good enough or they don’t know if, if they can really, you know, do this right. And it’s important for them to understand that they have the ability to do everything they’re called to do already within them. It may take some refining of a gift in talent. It may take exploration of a gift in talent. It may be even that they PR if they just need practice with that, you know, exercising that gift and talent, but we all have a unique gift and something that we can bring to the table, game changers are duplicators. Mm God created us after himself and his own image.
LO (29:29):
He created, he was the master creator. Therefore we were created to create and to duplicate wealth, duplicate love, duplicate success, duplicate things. Right. Right. So when we talk about legacy and when we talk about impact and influence with other individuals, it really is about duplicating more good. Yeah. In this world, it’s almost like a, a brand I help the client build called intentional serendipity and, and serendipity is good fortune. And what we did through the work together and the research that, that I did to, to bring to her is I realized that you could intentionally create more good fortune. Yeah. Based on how you live and the brand you choose to BR to build.
AJV (30:10):
Mm there’s so much truth in that, like one of my favorite Bible verses is that of Genesis that says it’s real simple, be fruitful and multiply
LO (30:23):
Anything that’s not growing is either dead or dying. Yeah. So when we are growing and being fruitful and when we’re duplicating, that means we are the zest of life that we are actually fulfilling, you know, our purpose. Oh, I could talk to you all day long.
AJV (30:40):
Oh, say we’re long sermon here in a second, but love it. I love these conversations. And you know, it’s like, I know not, maybe not all of our listeners share the same faith and that’s okay. But to be able to share, you know, business with people that man, they just, they, they feel called to their faith, whatever that faith is. It’s like, yeah, I’m a believer in Jesus Christ. And like he’s my Lord in savior. And to get to, you know, spread that and not be ashamed about it. Man, I just beautiful. I love it. I love that. You speak it. I love that. You know, it, I love that. It’s a part of who you are. You’ve got this service mentality and, and I think for everyone too, it’s like a huge takeaway in all of this is, and I love what you said. It’s like, like serve your way to the top. Right. That’s right. Serve your way to the top. Where is there any harm in that? There’s like, that is there
LO (31:40):
One of my biggest breaks in business has come from serving my way to the top. And here is another thing about game changers. They see what others don’t see. Mm they’re. Willing to go where others won’t go. So I remember being a very new speaker and I was at the national speakers association conference and they announced that the international Federation of professional speakers summit was gonna be in Dubai. And so I’m standing with all of these colleagues and I’m like, I’m going. And they’re like, yeah, we’re going. So a year later, when it’s time to register, I’m like, are you going no, I’ll see what happened was, are you going no, da da. So I ended up having no one who said they were going actually be in a position to go, but game changers can see what other people can’t see and will do what others won’t do.
LO (32:26):
So I remember my husband who was my business partner, he said, but honey we’re still trying to figure this whole thing out. Like we don’t have enough revenue for you to go all the way, halfway around the world to Dubai. And I looked at him and I said, without even thinking, I said, the gifts God has given me and the path he has put us on must be sufficient to provide for us. It just must be. And that’s that naivety that I talk about sometimes it’s like, I mean, like, it just has to work out, right. It just has to work out. And I remember being in Dubai, hanging out with the president of the national speakers association, everyone who was there, their, their, their speaking fee was like 20,000 plus. And I was like $3,500.
AJV (33:16):
That’s right.
LO (33:17):
And when I gave my presentation and, and not only that, I actually applied to be a speaker at the conference and was selected. So here I am presenting at this conference and someone sitting in the front row that had been someone I admired for years, who was a huge successful speaker sitting on the front row. And another woman sitting on the front row became a client. She booked, I mean, she, before I left Dubai, we had an engagement, a contract written, but the person on the front row said to me, Janice Stanfield said, where have you been all my life that I didn’t know about you? And then that led to an invitation to speak at the national speakers association with led, which led to other opportunities. And now every year I go to Dubai and do a seven day game changers mastermind retreat. So my whole business started to have these little spokes that came off of me seeing what other people couldn’t see and being willing to do what other people wouldn’t do.
AJV (34:18):
That’s truth all day long every day. If you don’t ask the answer is always no,
LO (34:25):
Absolutely.
AJV (34:26):
Don’t ask. It’s always no. Oh my goodness. I could talk to you all day long. I love this. And I’m gonna have I’m, I’m trying to be cognizant of the time sometimes I forget. But before we all go I asked you a question before I hit record, because like one of the big things that I’m focused on right now in my personal life is making sure that people get to know who you are as much as what you do. And so I asked you before we hit records, you know, I said, I wanna know one thing that’s not on your bio that you think people should know. And what is it? And you said I wish people knew that I was a builder. Like you love to build things, right? Like all kinds of things like actual building things like nails and hammers and tools. Like you love them build things. So I wanna know a little bit about that. Like, what do you like to build? Why do you like to do this? Where did this come from?
LO (35:15):
AJV (36:16):
Oh, there’s some good metaphors and analogies in that lathes the builder. And I know that I could continue talking to you for the rest of the day, if we had time that we did. I just so honored to have you on the show. And you’ve actually you’ve got a really cool thing coming up. Right. So in coordination with the release of this podcast, you also have a certify your brilliance that is launching. Right. So tell us a little bit about what that is. And we’re gonna put a really awesome link in the show notes to check this out, but tell us about certify your brilliance.
LO (36:52):
Absolutely. Well, what I’ve come to realize is that people who have books, people who have coaching programs and people who have even created amazing presentations and speeches, they are often thinking about what’s next for me? How can I generate an additional stream of revenue and, and what I’ve decided to do, because I’ve done it and beat my head against the wall, trying to figure it out. You’ve done it. And lots of other people have done it, but there’s no real resource anywhere that you can go pull a book off of the shelf or take a course to learn how to turn your expertise, whether it’s your book, your coaching program, or your speech into a certification program so that you can exponentially increase your revenue. And so I decided that I would talk to the most brilliant people in the world. People like you and interview them to find out, yeah, how did you do it?
LO (37:42):
And what I’m excited about is I’ve been interviewing people. I am getting like the nitty nitty gritty gritty inside the Diddy Diddy information. And they have been, I mean, people have just been so transparent and so giving to share, this is how I did it because it is not easy. And if you don’t have a roadmap or blueprint this is a place to come to really just learn how to take, you know, what you’re dreaming of and actually package it in a way and protect it so that you can actually reach more people than you ever could. If you only tried to, you know, do it and work through the process by yourself. So you’ll be able to reach potentially hundreds of thousands of people more because you have ambassadors. Yeah. Who all over the world are sharing your message and transforming lives. So I just, because it’s also a part of just being, it’s a game changing move to create a certification program. I’m just so excited to share that with the world. And I’m excited that you’re actually sharing the link and the information of how to actually access this free summit and this information with your tribe. Thank you so much for
AJV (38:50):
Doing that. Oh my gosh. Well I know just firsthand and it’s like, we’ll put the link in the show notes. It’s gonna be available to you, but I was fortunate enough to be a guest in all of this. And I know firsthand from the questions you’re asking, like this is pulling back the curtain, right? It’s like, like we’re, we’re not holding back. It’s like, these are the mistakes. This is what you should not do. This is what we did. This is what worked. This is what did it, this is how we charged for it. This is what’s included. It’s like, it’s literally pulling back the curtain of how do you like to what you said? And I love that. It’s like, how do you turn your expertise into a certification program? And that’s what it is. And so be sure to head over to the show notes, grab that link, check it out. You’re gonna get to learn all about all the things that you have to offer, including how to certify your brilliance. So, but on social, what’s the best platform to do that,
LO (39:49):
Or it LinkedIn or Facebook and my handle everywhere. Whether you have another platform you’d like to, to communicate on is at Lithia Owens.
AJV (39:57):
All right. So you heard it here. I’m so excited to introduce you to our community and our audience. I love your spirits. I love, I just love everything that you have to say is just it’s. I don’t know. There’s just something about your essence that I just, I just adore. So thank you so much for coming onto the show. Everyone stick around for the recap episode and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 299: Overcoming Sales Reluctance with Dean Graziosi | Recap Episode
RV (00:03):
Every time I get to sit down with someone like Dean Graziosi, it just like, I just think it’s the coolest thing that after doing this, I guess I’ve been at this for a while now, you know, 15, 15 years at least I mean, legitimately you would say, yeah, like 15, 16 years that I’ve been pretty much full, full time at this industry and getting to meet people like him, you know, it was like, this is someone I grew up, there’s watching on TV. Right. And Tony Robbins, like they’re doing business together. Like what an honor to just, just to, to get, to meet them and talk to them and then how valuable to get into this guy’s mind. And that’s what I wanna give you, these, these three core takeaways from me or, or from Dean that I took away, I took away from me.
RV (00:49):
And I love like if you didn’t listen to the episode yet, go back, go, go back and listen. Because a couple things, first of all, there’s sort of three things I’ve always wanted to like ask Dean about. And we got to all three thing, all three of them in, in that interview. So, and I’m gonna share the debrief of those right now, because I thought there was like, these are three very specific things that like, when I think of him and what he has done really well, I wanted to like, know how the, these, these parts that are really mindset things. And the other thing is, you know, and I just have to say, like, I just, I didn’t have much of a relationship. I had zero relationship with Dean other than what I saw online and stuff here and there in, in different promotions.
RV (01:31):
And you know, he’s definitely a, he’s definitely an information marketer. I mean, he’s, he’s one of the direct response Kings and and yet I never had a personal encounter with him, but I’ve had a few now. So this would be like my fourth or fifth time spending time with him, one on one. And every time I’m with him, I, I genuinely enjoy the guy. And I genuinely feel like, I feel like he is both serving and I think he is selling like I, and I think he’s, I I’ve known him as a salesperson, but also getting to understand a little bit more about, about his heart and stuff. And that’s why we wanted to bring, to bring him to you. We wouldn’t, we wouldn’t bring anyone to you that we, that we didn’t believe in. And obviously thrive 3 53 thrive, three fifty.com.
RV (02:18):
That’s our affiliate link. So we’re, we’re putting it in front of you because there’s a lot to learn from, from Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins, a lot to learn, like whether you know, a lot about ’em or nothing about him, whether you think of Dean as a, you know, you might think of him as a direct response. Marker. You might, whatever you think about Tony, like they they’ve been around a long time or maybe you don’t know either, but like, no matter what you think about them, it’s indisputable to me to go. These guys know how to reach people. These guys know how to get their message out there. These guys have an influence. These guys, they are connected to the most
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Influential people in the world, athletes and billionaires and politicians and charitable organizations and like churches and, and entertainers. And like they have built massive influence both in terms of their indirect relationships, the people they know and their direct reach, their ability to like their audience, the number of people who come to their events, read their books, follow them on social media are in their email list, et cetera, et cetera. And you go, I think myself included here. Some of us struggle a little bit with, you know, maybe it’s knowledge like maybe it’s knowing what to do to reach people. But I think a lot of us mission driven messengers, we, we struggle with sort of the conviction and the boldness of telling people who we are and why we’re like, why, what we’re doing matters. And that was a really important interview. And you know, that’s what they’re, that’s what they’re they’re teaching, right?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So anyways, you could check out three fifty.com go as soon as you, as soon as you get this, as soon as you listen to this, because they, they have a bunch of free training with Matthew McConaughy and Tony and Dean, obviously he mentioned, so Jenna Kucher is another, become another really good friend lately. She’s, she’s a doll like and so, you know, check this out, go there. And I would say if, if nothing else go register and watch how they do these launches, right? Like I’m fascinated being that we’re an affiliate for this launch for them is I’m learning a ton, just seeing the way that they do things and just like, oh, this is how that this is how that works. And this is how that works. And they, they have reaching people down to a science. And, and so that’s actually my first takeaway that I wanna talk about was the whole conversation around advertising.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And, and it’s amazing, like what Dean said is so true where it’s like, do you know the person who wins is the person who can spend the most on ads. That is the person who wins when, when you’re talk, not just about making money, but just reach where you go, who’s reaching the most people. Is it the smartest person? You know, like, is it the, is it the neuroscience, you know, scientist? Is it the neurosurgeon? Is it, is it the, you know, the doctorate at the university? Is it the brilliant guy that lives in somebody’s basement? No, it’s like, they’re not reaching the most people, the people who are reaching the most, people are spending the most money on advertising is Coca-Cola the best soda ever. No, like probably not. I mean, I don’t drink soda, like but like, it’s it, but they reach the most people they’re spending the most on advertising.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And so that to me is a really important switch that has to flip for you, right? Like at some point you have to get over that you have to get over that reluctance, that apprehension of telling people about what you do, like whether you like it or not. If you can’t get past that roadblock, if you can’t get past this limitation, this, this mental barrier of, of saying I am unashamed of what I do. I have to boldly and unapologetically tell the world who I am and what I do. If I cannot get past that, then I’m going to be stuck here in secret in private, the world’s best kept secret. And you know, the parallel that he used of, of like Martin Luther king Jr, is, is a gray one. Like lots of people wanted to, to affect civil rights and, and, and, and cure injustice and inequality.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But Martin Luther king is remembered in history because he was able to do it through influence and, and understanding people and communicating and getting the message out and, and being able to rally an audience. This is a life changing skill set. And, and it, you, you got to have conviction in what you’re doing. And, and I, I think the first is sort of like a logical realization. This isn’t the order that we talked about them in the interview, we talked about ads in the middle of the interview. But to me, the first realization is that the person with the most reach is not the smartest. They’re not the best. They’re, they’re not the most credible or qualified or experienced. They are just the best at marketing. And that’s a huge part of this. No, if, if I don’t know about you, I can’t buy from you. If I don’t know about you, I can’t donate to your charity. If I don’t know you are there, I can’t be involved in your mission, your product, your service, your program, your institution, your university, your organization, like people have to know about you. And if you are not willing to get into the game of going, let, I wanna let people in the world know that I’m here than somebody who is probably less qualified.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Somebody who is less credible, somebody with less expertise, somebody with less experience, somebody with a less effective program is gonna reach those people, because they’re willing to overcome that, that mental roadblock about their somehow inconveniencing other people by telling them that they’re there. And this has been a huge continues to be a huge struggle and battle for me. And, and, you know, for so long, I’ve worn it as a badge of honor that we don’t spend money on advertising. It’s all referrals and word of mouth of which I think there’s some real beauty to that, right? Like you want, you wanna grow your business in the most profitable way possible. And, and I do think referrals is the best way to grow your business, but it’s not necessarily a, like, that’s not at odds with going, what’s the, what is the predictable way to constantly grow or to reach more people is to go, but how do you win?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Who’s gonna reach more people. Is the, the, the person who can spend the most on advertising and the way you justify that will, you know, not just emotionally, which we’ve been talking about, but logically and financially is you go, you have to get really good at your metrics. You have to know your numbers. You have to understand customer lifetime value of, of every click and every step of the way. And you have to have a process of what you’re driving them to do. You know, these are the things that we, these are things that we teach that brand builders group in our, you know, revenue engine and high traffic strategies. Those are some of our phase two trainings to our clients. And, you know, that’s why I’m excited about learning from people like Dean and Tony in the programs they have, because they’re doing it right.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And they’re directing so many people. So like you have to get past that, that roadblock, the second one is going, okay, not just telling people about it, but then selling people and collecting money. And so many of us struggle to sell. We’re afraid. It’s almost like we, we, we grovel at the idea of asking people like, oh, I’m sorry. I have to ask you, ask you for money. And we don’t think of it as, as a service. And I I loved what he said when it was like, you have to fall in love. You have to love so much. Here’s what he said. You have to love what you do so much, that you feel bad. If you don’t offer it to people, you have to love what you do so much that you feel bad if you don’t offer it to people.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And you know, in this very moment, I feel that way. I go man, brand builders group, like we created this company because we don’t see anyone in the world that can do this better than us. Like our team cares so much about helping our clients succeed and in the human to human space of like getting real life coaching, like, and training human to human and, and live experiences encounters. It’s like, I don’t know anyone who has a better, a better program for that better curriculum. We spent our, our, our career life, learning these things and testing these things and putting together like, and the amount that we charge is so low. I mean, we literally have multiple clients who in the last few years have created seven figure businesses, a million dollar annual businesses from the stuff that they’ve learned from our curriculum. We don’t charge anywhere near that.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Like to, to, to, to know the value of it is we’re super convicted of it. And man, we’ve just, we’ve poured so much time into it to fall in love with it. And I feel that same way about Dean, right? Like I’ve gone, man. I have to at least let you meet Dean. I mean, because it, his results are irrefutable. Like the amount of people that they’re reaching. And it’s like a it’s, it’s like a predictable growth. He’s figured out a way to get his message out to lots and lots of people. And he’s done it consistent for 30 years. And it adds up over time to a lot of influence, a lot of influence. And so if you’re struggling with this, one of the practical things I think you do, like one of the practical takeaways is fall in love with what you do.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
The more convicted you are in what you do. The, the more convicted you are in your product, your service, your own expertise, the harder you’ve worked at crafting the thing, the, the easier, the more conviction you’ll have that people should buy it. And I feel like in many ways, brand builders group, I mean, honestly, we have spent the first four years of this business building a world class program, like we’ve, we have sold some like a lot. I mean, we’re a, we’re a, a very healthy, multi seven figure company. But like, I think we will become an eight figure company quickly because we haven’t been focused on advertising and reach. We’ve been building, we’ve been building the program, building the ship, tightening it, testing it, tweaking it. And we have poured so much into it, but it’s like, now we can go tell the world because it’s, it’s tight.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And, and we have that conviction. You should do the same thing as go like, well, what, what would make you so convicted? Like if you had to cure for cancer that tasted like chocolate, and you knew somebody had cancer and you knew you could cure them, you would feel obligated to share with them. You would feel it was your duty, your responsibility, your, your privilege, your honor, to let them know that you have, that you can help them. You got to get to that, like, you know, to that level or somewhere close to that level with your own products and services. Like I’ve worked so hard at my craft. I’ve worked so hard at putting this together that I, I, I have to have the world know about it. And so anyways, we feel that way about, about brand builders group. And that’s why, you know, we’re putting out this podcast for you to sample us, our network, the people we’re learning from the things that we’re doing, so that hopefully one day you go, you know what?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I trust these guys enough to take a chance on them. And by the way, if you, if you go to free brand call.com/podcast, you can request a call with our team. You know, if you want the more human based elements separate. And in addition to that, I would say, go to thrive three fifty.com and check out what Tony Robbins and Dean Grazi are teaching. Right? They’ve put together a program teaching how they’ve gotten to be, who they are hard to not pay attention to that. And I, I felt bad. I was like, I would feel bad about going Tony Robbins has put together something that teaches the things that he actually believes about what he’s done to help him become who he is and not give you at least the opportunity to check that out. And if nothing else, at least the opportunity to go through it, right?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Like sign up, go through the training watch how they do it. And just from like, experiencing what they’re doing. And you know, even if you don’t buy it, buy it or check it out. But, you know, again, like Matthew, McConaughy free training with Matthew McConaughy and Tony Robbins, like that’s pretty legit. Like so anyways, that’s thrive three fifty.com or if you go, Hey, I love what brand builders group is up to. And I think I want like a human, you know, encounter like great do both of them, but free brand call.com/podcast is how you get in touch with us. Love. So love what you do so much that you feel bad that you, if you don’t offer it to people, that’s a great way to flip that, that mental switch. And then the last takeaway, which, which we talked about was just, you know, the mindset around money is to go, if you have a block of any type with making more money, and you somehow think that it’s evil, or you have to take advantage of people or it’s selfish, or it’s self-centered, or if you have any of that related to money, then just then just change the focus and go.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
The reason I wanna make a lot of money is so that I can give it away, because I tell you like, every non-profit that I know is doing that, that they’re doing amazing work. They need more money. Like they they, they need money. They need money to get the message out to about what they do. They need advertising and dollars and sponsor to raise money for what they do. And, and you, if you have a, a spiritual gift of making money, then you can write checks to solve problems. And that’s true in your business too, right? Like not just with charity as you go look making a whole bunch of money doesn’t mean you have to keep it for yourself. Doesn’t mean you have to like buy a private jet in an island. Like one of the amazing things about making money, like genuinely my heart.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
One of my favorite things, like one of the honors of my life is employing. So many people is saying like my work and my energy and my passion and my spiritual gift of generating revenue provides jobs. And, you know, I, I, I am motivated by paying our people more like that is something that has always been inspiring to me is like, I want to not only make money for me and my family and for our charitable contributions, but the people who on our team, like part of how I measure success is like, are we able to pay our team more and more? And are we able to pay them the top of the market? Like one day, I wanna be able to say that, like the people who work at brand builders group, it’s an amazing job. It’s an amazing mission. It’s amazing culture. It’s amazing people.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And they get freaking paid girl. Like they get paid more than anyone doing that same role. Like that is genuinely in, inspiring to me is, is going. I want, I wanna provide jobs for people. And in order to build that kind of company, you gotta be able to write checks to solve problems. You gotta be able to hire people to do stuff. You gotta get copy written and videos, edited websites, built, and sales people hired. And, and, you know, whatever, you know, you need administrative folks and operational people and financial stuff like you need, you need legal contracts drafted, and you need all these things that it takes to, to run a business. And they all cost money. So you gotta make money so that you can solve problems. So you can write checks, not just so you can get rich and, and, you know, whatever, buy islands and drive cars and whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
There’s nothing wrong with those things. But like, if those things feel off to you, then just shift your focus and go, no, my goal is because I want to, I wanna provide, I wanna provide charity. I wanna support charity and good works in the world. And I wanna support the people who are doing a good job and making a, a, a big contribution, right? Like, you know, the, the people who are supporting me are creating jobs and creating opportunity. I mean, that’s just super duper valuable. So if you struggle with those things, I mean, those are mental things that I, I think, you know, Dean has really pushed past this. He’s figured this out, he’s conquered this. And anybody who’s reaching lots and lots of people like anybody in general. Right? My, my, I am one of my, my, one of my central life philosophies was when mark Twain said, each man is my superior in some way each, I really believe that I really believe each person is my superior.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
In some way, everybody has something to teach. And if you’re struggling with reach and you’re struggling with like sales, I go, man, Dean and Tony, Tony Robbins, and Dean Grazi like, they have figured that out how to do that, right? Like they have figured out how to reach. A lot of people make a lot of money and do a lot of good in the world. So if you’re interested in learning from them, I am, I want to know, thrive three fifty.com thrive three fifty.com, check out the free training and the other resources that they’ve got going on. That’ll come your way. If you do that. Other than that, keep coming back here, stay plugged in. And, and I hope you’re, you’re enjoying this like, and stay here until you’re ready to take the next step, that whole conversation, that Dean and I had about, you know, when he was saying the, as you get, you become a more serious athlete, you go, I need the next level of coaching and when you’re ready for it, we are ready for you. So thanks for being here. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand podcast.
Ep 298: Overcoming Sales Reluctance with Dean Graziosi
RV (00:03):
I am really excited and honored to introduce you to somebody who I’ve just recently gotten to know. And I wanna tell you why I’m bringing him to you. First of all, before I tell you who he is and what incredible things you’ve done, which you’re already gonna recognize who it is. But I saw this gentleman stand on stage and make a generous offer to support the victims in Uvalde, Texas, and their families, and to support another man who’s really, really near and dear to me at my let in a way that made a massive difference. And when I think of influence and how you create influence in the world, it speaks volumes to me about who are the people you surround yourself with and who are the people who will come out to help you. And Dean Graziosi stepped up in such a huge way with such a pure heart and being in the same room with him.
RV (00:53):
And we’d never met before, but the night before ed my let’s event, we were at dinner and I just caught, I caught 0% arrogance pretentiousness 0%. I’m better than youness. It was, it was a hundred percent. We’re here to do a mission to support ed, to support the people watching. And then he spontaneously throughout, you know, a pretty generous offer to help a lot of people. And you know, that was, that is how I got to know Dean Graziosi. Now you probably have heard of him before, right? He’s a multi New York, multi-time New York times bestselling author. He has worked with at least 14 major companies that are eight and nine figures that he’s helped him grow significantly. Of course he has millions of social media followers. He’s got lots of different programs, a couple of his books, millionaire success, success habits.
RV (01:45):
And then also the underdog advantage are have been, you know, read, bought, sold hundreds of thousands of people. And in 2019, he began a partnership with Tony Robbins and they started mastermind.com. And they have a, a, a program called the KBB the knowledge business blueprint, and they’ve helped over 50,000 people in this business. And the expert space understand how to better monetize what they’re doing, get their, their passion out to more people extend their reach. And so anyways, when I met Dean, I said, yeah, man, you know, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna be one of your top affiliates probably, but the way that you have ENCA interacted over the last couple days, I would love to be a part of introducing you formally to our, our community who we hold sacred and dear. So with that, welcome to the stage, the one and only Dean Graziosi.
DG (02:39):
Sorry. Thank you, man. That, that was a great introduction. I’m on vacation for just five days of my family and just happened to what a perfect spot it’s like. It’s great. They got the flag out front. But it, this was important. I come on with you, man. It, it was a pleasure to meet you. I saw what you stepped up and did for ed. He he’s a dear friend of mine and, and you did nothing but serve and help him get that great book in a lot of people’s hands. And I, I just wanted to do my part for everybody else. Listen, I know you got lots of options. Glad you’re here with us today. I promise that we’re gonna deliver some massive value today in the next 25 or 30 minutes. I, I know people have choices. So when you’re here, I always feel like I’m, I’m on like I’m performing.
DG (03:14):
Like I, I gotta bring it because you got lots of other options. So, and I know how much the depth of how Rory cares. We got the chance to know each other a little better. So pleasure to be here. And this is the perfect audience. This, you just explained who this is and what you do. And it’s so amazing when we have that desired dream passion, or sometimes it’s not even a dream. You just so, oh my God, I could be in an industry of sharing. What I know help serve others, help people get faster to the end result, help people avoid the mistakes I made or go quicker to where they wanna be or a million other things. When you get that under your skin, that we can truly, and this is the, this is easy for me to talk to this audience when we truly can make an impact and serve while simultaneously having the ability to create massive success in an industry that’s exponentially growing.
DG (04:04):
That is a real, real a rare combo. There’s not many places where you can impact and serve and create a thriving business. That’s why I’m, I love it. That’s why I think you probably love it. And today I wanna help deliver whatever I can to help you go faster, quicker, because this is a time the world needs the best version of you. We know we have 41 year high inflation. We know we’re headed towards a recession. We know we’re in an economic winter. We know that some people are, a lot of people are gonna hurt through this time, but we also know this industry is gonna grow through this. This industry is gonna be there to serve and help people. So I believe right now is a time we have to find another gear. We have to tap into our full potential. We can’t leave anything on the table. God, the universe, people, the world, whatever you believe need us, need the best version of us. Now, our family need the best version version of us now. And this is one of those rare things that if you do it right, and as you know, if you’re in this, this is a time you’ll actually grow. So anything I can do to help serve any of those topics I’m here.
RV (05:05):
Yeah. So here’s, here’s a, here’s one that I’ve always, I’ve always wanted to, to ask you about for our audience. So we, we refer to our audience Dean as mission driven messengers. So they are people who truly care about the mission more than the money, but sometimes it’s to their own detriment. Sometimes they struggle to sell because they feel like it’s pushy. Sometimes they’re shy about marketing cuz they feel like it’s vain. Sometimes they feel like if I’m asking people for money, you, you know that like somehow it’s, it’s very selfish. And I think one of the things that you do really well is you are, you are super service minded in terms of trying to help people, but you’re also very bold and straightforward in terms of like being convicted in why people should take a next step. Yeah. So if someone is wrestling, how do you wrestle with that? Like how do you reconcile that? Like
DG (06:00):
Really great, really great question. I’ve been helping people with that. If you don’t mind. I, I I’d love to jump right in here because sales, because we grew up with watching cheesy sales people on TV and, and somebody might have been sold something that didn’t serve you. So many people have this negative association with sales mm-hmm
DG (06:42):
Do you think there was other men who wanted to help civil rights and change the world because it was unjust. Do you think there was a lot of people that wanted he did because he was influential and a salesperson and marketed himself. And look at the change that man made to the world, right? Our association to sales is the reason that we might feel icky about it. If you don’t love what you do, if you’re selling an inferior product, if you’ve dabbled and created a half, half baked coaching program, then you should feel bad. But I’m gonna tell you the first thing to do love what you do so much. You feel bad if people don’t use it just simple as that. Mm-Hmm
DG (07:28):
I’m gonna give you a quick little story here. I think it, it really, cuz I’ve been asked this question a lot over the last 25 years of doing this. And I was on stage with five. It was three or four or 5,000 business. Women and women sometimes feel this more than men when it comes to marketing and sales. And I said, who’s ready for, you know, I was in my middle, my presentation say who’s ready for another level. Who wants this? Who wants that? Ever. They were fired up amazing audience. And I said, who’s a little apprehensive or scared or don’t let, doesn’t like selling almost all of their hands went up. Mm. So there’s a woman in front couple rows in, I called on her. I said, Hey, what do you, what do you do? She’s like, oh my God, I help women through trimester four.
DG (08:06):
Nobody knows what that is. That is after the baby, you feel insane. You still look like you’re pregnant. You feel like your life isn’t yours anymore. Cause you got this baby and you don’t know if your husband loves you anymore. And it’s this crazy time emotionally. She goes, I went through hell. But then I found a way to get myself strong and save. And she goes, now I help women go through that. And I, I have gooses cause she’s so passionate about it. Or she was like, so passionate. I said, are you good? She goes, oh my God. I love these women. I empower them. I change ’em and she tells me this. I said, I wanted to break her state. I said, then why are you screwing women over? And she’s like, well, I don’t understand. I said, you said you don’t like sales and marketing and her mannerism.
DG (08:44):
She went, no, I feel bad. I said, so then you’re willing to let women suffer in silence because you have the ability to help them. Can you help them? Oh my God, are you good at I’m the best? Do you love the women? You help more than anything. I was put on this earth to serve these women. I said, here’s the thing. If you build it, they will not come. I don’t care how great you are, how much you love these women. It will not come unless you find a way to attach service to marketing. When you realize every time a woman says yes and cut you a check, you get to impact her lives, her life in an amazing way. And if you don’t only two things can happen. That woman suffers in silence and never gets help. Or she goes to someone who’s not as good as you, but they’re better at marketing.
RV (09:26):
Mm.
DG (09:27):
And I watched three, four, I, I think it was 4,000 women. I watched, I watched cheers and no one had ever given him permission to look at it that way. And I know you, maybe you have, or you thought, but really, maybe, maybe today’s the first time you really heard it. That if you don’t sell, you don’t serve. So you could keep working on your, if it’s comfortable to work on your curriculum, if it’s comfortable to design the logo, you’re probably, if you’re not making the money you want or the impact you want, you’re probably working on the things that make you feel comfortable. And you’re avoiding the things that, ah, I don’t know about the marketing. I’ll get back to it. I’m gonna encourage you today to lean into the parts that are, you’re a little uncomfortable with gain capabilities, fall in love with what you do on a whole nother level. Cause when you fall in love with your product, then gets what the byproduct is. You fall in love with gaining capabilities about marketing and sales from those who’ve already been there. And when that combo comes together, oh my God. It’s magic.
RV (10:25):
Oh, that’s so good. I mean, and, and, and also true, you know, like a lot of the people who are winning in this space today, they’re not necessarily the best or the smartest, but they’re, they are great at marketing. Like it is a marketing game. So here’s another thing I’ve always wanted to ask you. Ads. So ads is another thing that people are afraid to do. Like, oh, it feels cheesy. It feels maybe like I’m cheating or I’m scared of losing money or it’s like, how do I, you know, spend money, not knowing if I’m gonna make that money back or going well, is it, it’s not the same. It’s more competitive yet. I’ve seen, you know, you run ads, you’ve done info initials. Like you’ve done so many things of like, I’m gonna make sure I get myself out to the world. So can you just like, if someone’s reluctance about spending money on advertising, what’s your, what’s the Dean Graziosi? Like what goes on in your head to be like, yeah, I’m gonna dump a bunch of money into this. Not knowing if it’s gonna come back to you.
DG (11:26):
Yeah. So because we’re stuck in a frame of what traditional advertising is. So I really want you to hear this traditional say, brand advertising, say, you’re advertising Coca-Cola you might have somebody drinking a Coke while they’re playing basketball or on stage, or you might have a Coke and a movie, or you might have a billboard or a radio ad or a TV ad. But none of it equates to the exact sale, right? That’s more of brand advertising. I wanna get my brand out there. And I want everybody to know about me, right? What we do in direct response, marketing and advertising is you measure every dollar. If I spend a dollar on Facebook, does 75 cents come back or a dollar 25 come back. So first and foremost know that there’s never gonna be a time right now. We’re Tony Robbins and I are getting ready to do a challenge here.
DG (12:18):
We’re gonna spend a lot of money on promoting this free five day challenge, but we know our metrics. We know every time we spend a dollar, how much we need to come back in order to make it so we can be sustainable and not go broke. Right? So let me just back up a little bit. First thing is we are in an absolute when I first started, there was no internet. How crazy is that? There was no social media. We couldn’t target a demographic. We, I had to do an infomercial. There was no other way to get into people’s homes and see if they, they wanted what it was that I was delivering. But you have the opportunity with social media, where you can go to Facebook groups that are similar to your genre. You could start a Facebook group where you’re given all away, nothing but value.
DG (13:03):
You could post on Instagram and Facebook and YouTube and LinkedIn, and you can test different topics. So let me give you a little example, getting ready. I’m gonna pull back the curtain. We’re going, we’re doing this challenge. It’s called the time to thrive challenge. Over five days, we’re gonna help people in this space, how to go faster, quicker, how to be bolder, how to have more capabilities, how to thrive. Day three is all about selling. Day four is all about building an audience. Day two is about identifying exactly what you be sh should be selling. It’s five days. It is unbelievable. It’s free, but we still gotta get people to come. And what we wanna deliver so much value that people continue to work with us. That’s in complete transparency, right? Sure. But I wanna tell you, you know what I did last month, I was filming different one minute videos that I was posting on social.
DG (13:48):
Whether you have five followers, 500, 5,005 million, I was posting different content. And I found a couple of things. I did a one minute video and I said, Hey, during a recession, during inflation Warren buffet said, there’s two things you should do. Number one, invest in yourself, get better at what you’re doing, become the person that people go to. So you’ll get a bigger piece of the pie. Number two, be a part of an industry that has higher margins. Don’t get caught with supply chain issues or your product costs going through the roof. And then your margins are gone. I shared that in a video. And I said, why not consider the self education industry where you’re teaching your life experience? The margins are huge. You don’t have to store it. You don’t have to warehouse it. You don’t have to ship it. You could sell it over and over again.
DG (14:33):
And you really get to impact people’s lives while you make money. I did that all in one minute, that video skyrocketed people were sharing it all over the place. Roy. So then I had an unfair advantage when I was gonna run an ad. What do you think? One of my topics were when I ran an ad, I was like, oh, that video, everybody loved and liked and commented on. Let me shoot an ad like that. And then let’s spend 500 bucks on it and see if 500 bucks if 200 come back or 600 come back. Right. So just know it’s, it’s the art of Kaizen. It’s one step at a time. Don’t, you know, where people get in trouble is like, I gotta, I gotta market. I gotta do some ads. And they put a whole bunch of money in ads without testing it without tweaking it, without understanding the fundamentals and they could lose money, then they get stung. And then like, I’m never doing that again. It’s only cuz you didn’t have the right guidance. You didn’t have somebody step you into this one piece at a time.
RV (15:21):
Yeah. Yeah. And I want, I wanna talk a little bit more about that in a, in a, in a second here. I know I don’t wanna get too much in the weeds on this, but just a straightforward question. Do you ex do you expect to break even on your ad spend like on the first sale or is it more, do you have a longer lifespan of going ah, some of it I might make back over the second, third, fourth sale.
DG (15:41):
Yeah. So some of it that’s when you first start. So, so write if you’re gonna write anything down today, when it comes to ads, write this down, you know, who wins it at ads? Do you know where
RV (15:53):
The, the, the, the, the person who has the best metrics
DG (15:56):
Or the person who could spend the most?
RV (15:58):
Oh yeah.
DG (16:00):
The person who could spend the most to an acquire a lead wins. Yeah. So if you’re brand new and you’re selling, you know, a weekend, you’re selling your course and your course sells for 500 bucks and it’s costing you $200 to acquire that client. Oh my God, when you do it all day, you spend two, you give somebody a $200 bill. They give you back a $500. Bill spend as much as you can and you’ll get some of those sales, but then you’ll get to where it’s costing you $400 for a $500 sale. And then you’re getting to a point where it’s $500 for a $500 sale. And then most people go, this does this ad game doesn’t work. But when you look at serving people where they need it, sometimes you sell a course. And of course is enough for I sell a book.
DG (16:41):
Sometimes my books are enough for somebody to, I, we have thousands of testimonials just from my book. Then some people go books, not enough. I need Tony and Dean’s course, man, that, that project next, which is, I believe the greatest personal, you know, self education course ever created like that course, oh my God is amazing. And some people say, got the book amazing, got the course, but I need someone to keep me accountable. I need a coach or a mentor. I need to be on a call once a week to get these answers. These questions answered. It’s like the professor at a college, some kids could do it with the books. Some people need the professor, right? And some kids need extra tutoring. So if you have the books and the, and the teacher and the extra tutoring, some people are gonna self-select and say, Hey, I bought your course for 500 bucks.
DG (17:26):
Amazing. But do you have a coach that can help me through it? We do. And it’s X amount. So it’s, I know you guys get this. It’s about lifetime value. It’s not about trying to sell somebody so much stuff. They don’t need. It’s about delivering what they need. Some people need a coach. Some people need their hands held. Some people need to be held accountable, right? So when you have additional products, some people, maybe 80% of the people just need your course, thumbs up 20% might want a weekly coaching call or a deep dive. One on one coaching call. That’s more money. So, which means is your average lifetime value of your client over six months over a year for that $500 buyer could actually be a thousand dollars. Now I’m not getting in the weeds, but really think about that over time. Oh yeah. I want that coaching. Oh yeah. I definitely need that too. And all of a sudden, now that $500 buyer is worth a thousand. So you can go in and spend $700 to acquire a $500 client and you’re still winning and you’ll win in the ad game. Cuz most people can’t afford it.
RV (18:27):
Yeah. I love that. Parallel of some people can do it with a book, a textbook. Some people can do it by going to class. Other people need the tutor. Like, yeah. It’s just, it’s just the same.
DG (18:39):
Would you say, would you say, oh my God, that too, like that is horrible that
RV (18:43):
You’re taking, you’re taking advantage of people because you sold them tutoring.
DG (18:47):
Yeah. Because they’re struggling. You know, I I’ll give you an example. I’ll share this. We call it a value ladder. Right? So I wanna give you this. My daughter was in ninth grade last year. She pitched for her softball team JV. She pitched 13 outta 15 games start to finish.
RV (19:01):
Wow.
DG (19:01):
So proud as a father, right. Won about 75% of her games. And I think she’s gonna be I think she’ll be, if she sticks with it, she’ll be a superstar by the time she’s in 12th grade. If she decides I’m not the forceful type, but I wanna share something with you when she was younger, she watched YouTube videos on how to be better at softball. Right. And then there was a time she bought a $97 course on how to be better. And then we found the guy and he was doing pitching camps where like these little treat they’d spend an hour and it was 40 bucks to pop. It was $40 a pop. And she could go with like six other girls, right? So one was free. One was like 97 bucks. And now it’s 40 bucks. She was going once a or once or twice a week.
DG (19:49):
So let’s just say 80 160 say it was 250 bucks a month. And she was going to this clinic and all of a sudden she’s like getting serious. And the coach said she probably needs one on one she’s excelling. Now that went to 200 bucks, times four, it went to a thousand bucks a month for one on one. And he’s been teaching her a thousand bucks a month, one on one now for two and a half years. Right. It’s the difference where she’s at. You think I’m gonna say, how dare that coach offer us one on one to help my daughter. I feel blessed that I can I’m. So I feel blessed that I could afford it. Whereas some people can’t and if we couldn’t, I’d say work your tail off with that free video, hun, I feel blessed that I could afford it, but there’s somebody else out there in your niche right now?
DG (20:37):
That’s saying, I don’t just want the course. I want, I don’t just want the free YouTube video. I don’t want the $97 course. I don’t wanna work with seven other people. I wanna work one on one or maybe I do wanna work with other people. So when you offer those varieties as a value ladder, each one of those is value to my daughter. Each thing that you share will be value to someone else. But when you get done that client could be worth, you know, $480 a month on average between all of them. And you could spend $300 to acquire that client,
RV (21:06):
If you do, and what, what, what athlete do we go? Oh, you know, they got taken advantage of because they had the private coach. It’s the opposite. We go, they had an advantage because they had the best coaching in the world.
DG (21:18):
Absolutely. So, so when you shift your mindset is that you can be that person for someone else that holds them accountable. So they don’t fail this time. I mean, the, the worst thing I think about is somebody who’s bought 10 courses in their life and they never got the results they want. They need someone to go, Hey, stop buying courses. You need a darn coach that keeps you accountable.
RV (21:37):
Right? Yeah. Get in, get in there. I mean, it’s like those are, those are such, such great parallels. So and I wanna go ahead and throw this out, right? So if, if you go to thrive three fifty.com, the we’ve got some partnerships, there’s some free training, depending on when you go, the sooner you go, the more free training that’s gonna be available to you. So when you, if you’re hearing this, if you go to thrive three fifty.com, Dean and Tony have put together these free trainings and the sooner you get there, the more likely you’re gonna catch the catch, the free training. But it’s also like, it’s interesting to hear like, oh, Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi have to advertise. They have to go on podcast. They have to get the word out there. Like, of course you do. So I wanna mention that URL it’s thrive. And then the number three 50 thrive, three fifty.com.
DG (22:27):
Yeah. Let me, let me tell you, let me tell you if, if you’re watching right now and if anything I shared today is intriguing to you, then you need to go register and go see what we’re doing. The, the live portion it’s five days, it starts August 2nd. It’s gonna be probably two hours a day. It’s Tony, myself. It’s Jenna Kucher. If you know who Jenna is and Russell Brunson. Oh,
RV (22:45):
We know we know who Jenna Kucher is. Yep. For sure.
DG (22:47):
And, and Russell Brunson and Brendan Burchard and Lisa Nichols. And we even got Matthew McConaughy coming, cuz I loved his book, green lights. And you know, he really went into the self education industry with that and he wants to do more. In fact, we might be doing something special with him, but what we’re gonna do over five days is really pull back the curtain on how to really narrow down what you should be teaching who you should be teaching it to. Right. And I mean, day one, just with Tony, Robbin’s gonna blow your mind. You it’ll get you in a space, especially during, you know, recession during all this craziness out there, you need to get laser focused in here. And I don’t believe there’s anybody better on the planet that can do that than Tony. But over those five days, we’ll, we’ll narrow in that niche show you how to ethically market through service, how to build the following.
DG (23:26):
Even if you’re following is small or next to nothing and then how to tie it all together and how to launch your next sale. It’s either your first or your next sale, right? The whole goal of the five days is get your first sale, your next sale, inconsistent sales. That’s what makes this a real business where we impact others and and create success for ourselves. But it’s gonna be something really special. And it’s only happening once and it’s live. The two things I would share with you Zig Ziegler said if, if you don’t pay, you don’t pay attention. Really? Remember that in your business, think about the things you got for free and think about the things you worked hard for. If you worked hard for your first car, you cleaned it, you polished it. And we also know that we’ve bought children or friends that bought children in their first car.
DG (24:07):
They didn’t pay for it. And they wrecked it in a weekend. It was, it was so nasty on the inside, right? Cause they didn’t earn it. They didn’t have to pay for it. Right. I wanna tell you just because this is free, you need to value it as if it was 5,000 bucks. It’s Tony Robbins. I mean, he’s got a waiting list of people wanna give him a million dollars a year to be his coach, right? It I’ve been blessed. I get paid 250 grand a day for consulting just had one a month ago. I’m not saying that to brag. I’m saying, convince yourself, you paid five grand or a thousand bucks show up and play full out. And what I’d also do is take that 5, 3, 5, zero.com and send it to someone right now who needs it and have, ’em be your accountability partner, go through it with them, have them show up with you, go send ’em to strive three fifty.com. And yeah, it’s gonna be a fun. It’s gonna be a fun five days. It’s a lot of work and it’s worth it.
RV (24:54):
So before I let you go and, and, and check this out and like I said, I, you know, getting to meet Dean face to face in person was a, was a whole different experience and like, see, seeing your heart here. And, and this is, is really encouraging. So, so go there. One other thing that I wanna just like get into your mind a little bit before we let you run off, is your mindset about money, right? So this is another thing, sales, advertising, also money. You know, there’s big talks of recessions coming, obviously, you know, inflation, like there’s a what are you, what are some of the, or like, what’s one thing related to the mindset about money that a a mission driven messenger. I mean, that’s what our audience just, they all have that in common, which is also another thing where it’s like, ah, like making money sometimes feel like evil or like, you know, I, I have to take advantage of somebody
DG (25:47):
Money. Say, I’ll say, I’ll jump in here. Cause I’ve asked, I’ve had that question asked a lot and I love answering it. When people say money, doesn’t buy happiness. I say you haven’t given enough away yet. Mm, simple as that. Yeah. I haven’t given enough away yet. And, and I don’t say that to be disrespectful, but you know Richard Branson, I was blessed enough cuz I raised money for his foundation. It wasn’t, we were best friends and not wasn’t cuz I was super cool. But the billionaire of Richard Branson, I got the chance to spend a week with him on his private island in in the Caribbean Neer island. And I didn’t even know if I was gonna see him. I just knew I was going the same time he was there and him and I both got up at 5:00 AM one morning.
DG (26:25):
He said, Hey, you’re up early. You wanna sail? I’m like thumbs up. Right? And I got in a boat with him and I, and I had some of those thoughts, not a lot, but he said, Hey, I believe God gave us all unique abilities. And I believe some people, God bless their souls. They go to the soup kitchen or they go and they volunteer their time. And what would we do without those amazing humans? He said, but I believe all of us have different capabilities. I found it later on in my life that I had the ability to make money. And that was my purpose because I could cut checks to solve problems. He said, some people need to go work. There he goes, I might be able to do a campaign and walk in and hand that soup kitchen, a hundred thousand dollars gift.
DG (27:03):
And when I realized that I just wanna get better at me. And if I do the right things with the money, then I get to utilize my gift. He goes, favor, started coming my way in the biggest way possible. And that shifted for me too. You know, listen, when I was a kid, I would’ve, I dreamed, I used to dream that someday I could make a thousand bucks a week, 50 grand a year. Oh my God, that would’ve been that would’ve been like when I was in high school, I didn’t come for money. I literally lived in a trailer park with my dad. My mom worked three jobs to make nothing. And I remember, man, if I can make a thousand bucks a week, life will be good, 50 grand a year just because it was in my heart. When I was on ed stage, you know what it felt like that I said, Hey, you know, today, while I’m here last minute, I’m gonna donate $50,000 to the family.
DG (27:46):
Nothing lights me up more than that. And last year we passed eight mil, I think 8 million meals, seven and a half million meals through feeding America. We built two churches in Africa. I donated $600,000 to operation underground railroad to help children in slavery, man, what could be better than that? While simultaneously my business actually helps empower people to go faster, quicker, better to their own dreams. And we get to employ people and I get to make sure my family’s okay. So just like selling, I think you gotta find a way to shift what money means to you, make it and give it all away, make it and help change the world, make it and help your church. Do what serves you. But I just don’t think we’re put on this earth. I don’t think any creator would put us on this earth to play small. That’s just my belief.
RV (28:30):
Hmm. Yeah. What well in just fascinating to just get those perspectives and to see you know, that you’re, if you don’t have that belief, then the conviction to, to tell people about what you’re doing is gonna not, is not gonna be there. And, and, and, and people aren’t gonna feel the energy and they’re not gonna buy. And so getting, getting these mindsets right is so huge. And so that’s why I go to thrive three 50, you thrive three fifty.com. You can check this out. I mean, look, Tony and Dean are reaching millions and millions of people, like regardless of what you might know or not know, you go, you guys are reaching millions of people and you’re showing people how to do that. So like that is just really cool. And you’ve been so generous Dean with your time here, like so many great, great parallels. And just thank you for that conviction Dean. And, and, and thank you for this. I think this is, this is a leveling up my thinking and you know, to, to go, man, I wanna stand on stage and just go here’s $50,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, what an amazing way to to, to, to, to provide blessing the world. So thanks for being here, brother. And we just, we wish you the best.
DG (29:47):
Well, thanks man. Appreciate everybody spending time with us and we’ll see you on August 2nd.
Ep 297: Methods for a Better Marriage with Kathryn Gordon | Recap Episode
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you. Soon
Speaker 2 (00:54):
For years, Jon Gordon has been a friend, a colleague, a mentor of mine, and what an absolute delight and treat to get to sit down with his wife who is also his co-author of the book, relationship grit, Kathryn. Kathryn has become a quick friend of the family and really a quick friend of AJ’s, which is you know, kind of unexpected, unusual for AJ to become so close with somebody so quickly. And they have really hit it off. And man, this was a powerful, a powerful lesson. And I mean, of all the podcasts we’ve had, this one really, really hit me hard personally. And so we were talking about, you know, methods for a better marriage, especially for entrepreneurial couples. And I think you know, I wanna share my takeaways here in just a second, my, my top three highlights, but what a great just opportunity to get to hear from people who have built something really big in the world, right between Jon and, and Kathryn.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And of course, if you’re not familiar with Jon, he is the best selling author of the energy bus. He, he’s one of the, the, the most well known speakers, motivational speakers in the world, and he’s written several, several books and you know, I’ve just always known him really well. And just only gotten to know Katherine more recently, but just, I think it’s rare to even have a chance to talk with other entrepreneurs about how they hold it together. And one of the best parts of this, this whole interview was just hearing the story honestly, of how they struggled about how hard it was on their, their marriage, about their kids, about even being separated for a while. Like that it’s that, that permission to know that it’s okay. And that permission to hear that marriage is hard. Like a great marriage is takes a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It’s very, very difficult because because life is difficult and kids are difficult and building businesses and doing meaningful and significant things in the world is difficult. And so to just have that opportunity to, to talk with her and hear some of their story from some people who are, you know, had a chance to walk this path a little longer than we have was, was super inspiring and, and, and helpful for me in an extremely practical way. And I’m, I’m gonna share with you, like, I would say these are three of maybe the most intimate things that I’ve ever shared in a recap, because marriage is intimate, right. And, and you know, my, my life priorities are, are, are, are very clear, right? It’s like, it is God, then it is AJ. Then it is the kids. And then it, then, you know, it is family and then it is work like that is the order of, of the priorities in my life.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And so, you know, this is, this is intimate stuff talking about, you know, marriage. So the first, my first big takeaway was around vulnerability. Now I have to tell you, and maybe you have this response too, but when I hear the word vulnerability, like it’s been thrown around so much in the last few years that there’s a little bit of me that kind of wants to gag, like, oh, you know, more like, here we go again, like vulnerability, you know? And, and like, what even does that mean vulnerability? And, and it’s just, it’s just becomes this word that people like use so much, but I love the way that Kathryn described it in such a practical nature. Right. And, and this, this is what I wrote down at least. And like when I was reviewing my notes and I guess I’ve just never heard it shared in such a simple way.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And that hit me as really powerful. And this is the way that she described it. She said, vulnerability is simple. It’s simply sharing what you are, feeling, sharing what you are feeling. And that really hit me hard because it’s like, oh, okay, now I get why it’s so hard, right? Because telling someone how you are feeling is risky. It’s, there’s, it is intimate because it’s, it’s risky. It’s giving you access into something that nobody else knows, except for me. Right? Like, you know, you, you can see how a person looks, you can know about what a person does, but in order to know what somebody’s feeling there is this invitation for you to come inside my, my mind inside my heart and inside my body and, and really know what’s going on. And it’s, and it’s risky because that’s, that’s a very private, and it’s also sort of scary to think that someone else might judge me for the way I’m feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They might, they, they, they might not agree with how I’m feeling. They, they might think I’m wrong for feeling the way that I am. And also there is also a risk that I might offend another person by telling them how I’m feeling that I might hurt them. I might anger them. I might push them away by sharing how I am feeling. And, and that’s the risk of vulnerability, but that’s the power in vulnerability. It is, it is intimacy. It is into you. I see, right? Like that is, is like the meaning of the word into you. I see giving me access into how you’re feeling, giving you access into how I’m feeling. And if there is one relationship on this earth that you must be able to do that with, it must be your spouse. It has to be like it has to be the person because that’s the person you’re doing life with all of the highs, all of the lows, all of the challenges, the obstacles, the difficulties, as well as the wins, the celebrations, the ambitions, the dreams, all of those things are shared most closely.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And in most proximity with your spouse, it doesn’t matter how close you are to your, your, your best friend or to your other family members. It is, it is your spouse that you’re walking most closely with. And if you are not able to share how you are feeling then with that person, then who else are you able to do that with? And, and, and how lonely, how lonely to go through life, not having that opportunity and yet terrifying to do it, scary to do it, gut wrenching, you know, to, to, to, to take that risk. But that is marriage, right? It is, it is this choice, this one relationship that you choose to say, I’m gonna go there with you. I’m gonna, I’m gonna give you access into every part of my life into how I live and how I sleep and what I wear and what I say and what I do and how I spend my money and, and what I say about other people and what I think, and also how I feel.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And so there, that was powerful for me. I don’t know why it was just something about the way that Kathryn said it. That was like, that’s so actionable and so practical, right? Share how you are feeling, share what you are feeling that was like, oh, I get it. Like, I really, I really, really, I really get it. And I think part of the risk here for me was, or not the risk, but another, another part of this that was, was an insight for me, was allowing other people to share how they’re feeling with you without getting defensive. And I think if there’s a place that I have failed in my marriage, it’s been here. I don’t think I have done a great job in my, you know, now 12 years of, of marriage with AJ giving her a space and a place and an opportunity to share how she is feeling without her having to be worried about me, judging it, commenting on it, correcting it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, I, I actually think, I, I really only learned of this term gas lighting here fairly recently. And I think that I have done that a lot to AJ, more than anybody, which is that I’ve tried to convince her to feel a different way. I’ve tried to tell her why her feelings are, are wrong, or why maybe she isn’t viewing things. Right. And that I think has probably been the single biggest gap in our marriage, right? Like that there’s, there’s many things that I do wrong, but in a real significant way, in, in a, in a way that’s really risk risky of, of, you know, what has caused real damage, that would be something that I would look back to and go, man. I hope my boys one day for their wives would give them a safer space to share their feelings with, with their wife than I have with AJ.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
And that’s a hard, that’s a hard thing to admit, but also something that I’m very grateful for that I’ve gotten that clarity. And, and, you know, I, I think that that’s been a journey that we’ve, we’ve, we’ve been on for some of you that, you know, have known us for years and years who have followed us, like you know, we went through a hard time, pretty hard time, few years ago. And I think I was trying to convince AJ about certain things that she should feel. And, and she turned out to be right. I was the one that was wrong. And that just makes it harder. But anyways, I think the practical point for all of us is share what we are feeling and allow someone else to share what they are feeling without judgment, without correction, without coaching, without, you know, alt altering.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And I think, you know, the natural coach in me, I think that, you know, looking back would be, is probably one of the things that’s probably had to be most difficult for AJ being, being, being married to me and you know, something I’m embarrassed about and, and ashamed of, and but grateful to have been, become aware of it here, especially in like the last couple years. And so that was power. I mean, like that’s a life changing moment, right? Like life changing moment. And Katherine, you know, just sort of sharpened that, that for me with a lot of clarity. So that was, that was really huge. The second big takeaway for me, and this helped me a lot when Kathryn said it, because I feel this way, like, I, I feel this way where she said, look, ultimately the workload is not going to change.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Ultimately it falls on mom. Like mom has to figure it out because she is the ultimate decision maker on everything related to the kids. And so there is just an imbalance of workload as it relates to children. Like even though I try to do as much as I can do, like I try to go, how can I be useful, AJ? Like, how can I help? What, what, what can I do to support here at the end of the day, there’s an imbalance of the workload in raising the kids. At least it is in the Vaden household. And, and I don’t think it’s cuz I’m a lazy dad. I’m certainly not like an absent dad. Like the, you know, I grew up without a father, a father for, you know, the first 10 years of my life. So I, I didn’t have much to model, but like I’m here and I’m trying, and yet it’s difficult.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Like raising, like having kids has been very hard, not because there’s anything wrong with our kids. They’re beautiful. They’re amazing. They’re, they’re perfect. It’s because of my own self-centeredness and not being used to having to modify every, every single part of my life to, to make an allowance for somebody else’s needs to come first. Right. Like marriage is one level of that. Kids is a whole nother level. And so I think, you know, I’ve I’ve, and then I struggle with that being like, man, AJ’s just, she’s just carrying the workload here and it feels unfair. And so there was something about when Kathryn was like, yeah, that is how it is. I don’t know. Just the, the way that her sort of, matter of fact tone it, it, in, in a way gave me permission to not feel wrong and to not feel bad, which I think I was looking, I, I guess, deep down looking for, because it was just like, no, that that is how it is. And then yet going, and, and then, and then what is my role like then, then what can I do? And this is what she said, and I have to tell you, like, it’s this for the last several weeks I have been thinking about this on a regular basis is, is Kathryn said again, so practical, like so profound, but so practical. She said, Rory, if you go back and listen to the interview, she said, all you, I, if there’s one thing you can do, just acknowledge to a J for a J how hard it is.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And I was like, oh man, that’s so good. That’s so simple. That’s so doable. And why haven’t I done a better job of that? Right. Like I think, you know, my default is to be defensive is, is, is, is to go, well, yeah, you’re doing all this, but, but I’m also doing this. Right. And I am, and it’s like very difficult for me. Like, I’m going, like, I’m over here dying to myself. And I’m, that’s been a difficult journey for me, especially somebody who’s like this self-motivated independent, ambitious achiever, my whole life. Like pre-marriage, it was just like, I just ran a sprint and then, you know, marriage was like, oh, okay. Like now, but now it was more like I had a partner and then kids came and it was like, whoa, like this yanked my whole universe. But, but you know, I, I tend to be more of like, well, yeah, but I’m doing this and yeah, but I’m doing that.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
And for Kathryn to just so clearly, and so simply say, just acknowledge for AJ how hard it is that has been so helpful for me. And so practical. And frankly, it’s been transformational for our marriage in a, in a matter of a few weeks. So both kind of acknowledging in that receive, receiving that, being okay with it, not making myself wrong for it and not feeling like I have to justify the imbalance, but just acknowledge the imbalance. What a, what a release of pressure from me. And apparently exactly. Kathryn’s exactly right. I feel like I should send Kathryn a check for some marriage counseling, cuz that’s what I got like on this episode. Like if you didn’t listen to this interview, like if you were struggling in your marriage at all, or if you ever have, or you know, someone who is, which we all do, like listen to this episode just, and then just acknowledge how hard it is.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And I think that extends beyond marriage and beyond parenting, right? Specifically, this is like a parenting piece of the conversation, but like what a gift to anyone in their life to just acknowledge how hard it is, acknowledge how hard it is, acknowledge how difficult it is or what they’re going through. Like take a second to go. I see you. I, I support you. I, I, I, I, I, I am aware of what you’re doing and, and you know, I just wanna let you know that I see you. And I think so many people just wanna be seen. They just wanna go, man, does this matter? Is anyone even noticing? And, and what an, what a simple practical thing to be able to do to acknowledge how difficult this is? Honestly, I think that’s one of the biggest things that our members, you know, the people who, who become members at brand builders group, we have now almost 400 of them.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Right. And we see them several of them every month at our events. And you know, and the virtual trainings and stuff is like, they get, they get behind the scenes and we’re showing ’em behind the scenes of, of, you know, how we do things and all these things we learn with all the personal brands we, we work with and all this stuff. And they go, oh man, this is hard. Like, it’s not easy. It’s so difficult. But there is a system and there is, is a process. So who in your life can you do this for today? Who in your life can you acknowledge? And just say, Hey, you’re hand, you’re carrying a ton. And I just want you to know, like, I see it. You’re doing so much. Thank you for how much you’re doing. It’s, it’s so much, it’s so hard and you’re doing it like a champ.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
My guess is there’s somebody in your life. You need to say that to right. Maybe yourself, maybe yourself and, and definitely somebody else. And then the third, the third part of this you know, when Kathryn was sharing the story about them being separated, which I was like kind of shocked that she was just, you know, here she is just sort of openly telling, tell, you know, it’s like between me and you, Kathryn, and you know, a, yeah. A few million podcast listeners.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
God, we invite you into our lives. And I don’t know where you’re at on your spiritual journey or what you think and all that, right? Like I’m not a pastor, but is there a place in your life right now that you might need to invite God into? And here’s the hint, it’s the place where everything’s fallen apart. It’s the place where you’ve tried everything and nothing works. It’s the place where you’re most frustrated. You have the most despair. You, you are, you are the most exhausted. The most discouraged, the most beat up the most beat down the most, the closest to giving up. Where in your life are you the closest to giving up? Where in your life are you ready to throw in the towel? Are you ready to quit? Are you at the end of your rope? Are you struggling? Are you mad? Are you frustrating? Are you said like where in your life is that that is where you want to invite God into.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And look, there’s a whole lot of discussion around, you know, historical accuracy and evidence for God. But I’m telling you in my life clearly in Kathryn’s life, in the life of the people that I know the best, the proof of God is to invite God into your darkest moments. Invite God into your darkest places. Invite God into your deepest struggles. Invite God into your greatest concerns. Invite God into your greatest worries. Invite God in, invite him in invite him. And look, if you, if you’re really struggling spiritually and you go, I don’t even know if there is God I’ve been there. Like I been there, I’ve been there many times. Here’s the good thing about God. God’s not afraid of being questions. God is not afraid of being challenged like that. Doesn’t intimidate God whatsoever. And I would say, invite him in and, and see if he shows up, invite him in and see if you feel his presence, invite him in and see if something, something happens, invite him in and see if something changes. But if you’re struggling, if you’re defeated, if you’re wounded, if you’re hurt, if you’re angry, if you’re sad, if you are experiencing sorrow, if you’re feeling lost and you don’t invite him in you’re on your own, not because of him because of you, because that’s a choice that’s you are making with your life. That’s not his decision, that’s yours. So if you are not sure, if he’s there, ask him, invite him and see if he shows up. And I will tell you, he never has. Not. For me.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
He never has not for AJ. He never has not for many of the people that I love most dearly in my life that I, I have the most intimate relationships with that. I know the best personally. He often shows up in ways that are different than we expect, but he never doesn’t show up, but you have to invite him in. He, he doesn’t just come breaking down the walls. Like you have to invite him in. There is no obedience. Otherwise there is no demonstration of faith otherwise, right? If he just forces himself upon you, then there’s, that’s not, there’s not belief. There’s not relationship. Right? You have to invite him, invite him in. So where in your life do you need to do these things? Who in your life do you need to share what you’re feeling with? Who in your life do you have to acknowledge and speak and see and tell them that you see how hard it is that what they’re going through and where in your life do you need to invite God in? That’s it for this week’s edition of the influential personal brand podcast. I love you. We’ll catch you next time. Bye. Bye.
Ep 296: Methods for a Better Marriage with Kathryn Gordon
RV (00:02):
What an absolute honor to get to interview one of our best friends. Kathryn Gordon first, and, and foremost is a, is become a really close friend of my wife, AJ Vaden. Of course, our CEO, my business partner. They have quickly become close friends. I have been close friends with her husband, John Gordon for years. And Catherine is extraordinary. So she is a mother. She’s a business woman. She’s a movie producer, she’s the best selling author of a book called relationship grit. And she’s the host of a podcast called Catherine for real podcast. As she won AJ over just kind of with like her spirit of honesty and authenticity and transparency and it just makes me so, so happy. And so John has been a mentor of mine for years. Obviously him and Catherine have been together for a very long time. They’ve built this whole business where they built John’s personal brand. They built an amazing family and then they built they launched a book together and now Catherine has been really developing her own personal brand here recently. And so we just wanna hear about that journey and basically I thought I could get some free relationship and marriage advice from Catherine Gordon to better understand my wife. And so anyways, Catherine, welcome to the show.
KG (01:28):
Oh Rory, thank you so much for having me. I love AJ. It’s like, it’s been an honor just to work with her recently trying to help me figure out my brand, but I love her as a human being. She is so authentic and so real and I just, you guys are both awesome and John of course thinks the world of you. So thanks for having me on.
RV (01:52):
Yeah. Well, thank you. So one of the, one of the things that doesn’t happen that often is finding entrepreneur couples, where they both work in the business, like both in inside of personal branding, where they both have personal brands. And I think, you know, that’s something that we have done and there’s a few others. Sometimes they’ll work together and, and one person has more of the personal brand and the other person is more like kind of behind the scenes, but you and John both have these external facing these great personal brands, you wrote the book together. And so I, I thought we would start with the book. So relationship grit comes out. It’s a best seller. You guys did this. So tell me about that book. Why did you write that book? And let’s kind of start, start with what that’s all about.
KG (02:50):
All right. So, you know, it’s funny because you were talking about couples having their own personal brand and early on when John was just starting. Well, we actually started or started with a FRA franchise called Mo Southwest grill and we brought it down to Florida and we worked side by side. John was in the restaurant doing his thing and I would, would be at home the waiting for the kids to get off the bus, but also doing the bookkeeping and payroll. And, you know, John would come home. I was trying to book him to speak while we were running this restaurant, cuz he really wanted to, you know, get out there and start speaking. And he would come home after I had done like 45 things and he would ask me if I had done the 46 thing. So I wanted to kill him.
KG (03:40):
So it wasn’t always that we did this together. Okay. It was so funny because you know, one night after he had done this, he actually, you know, wanted to be, my husband like wanted to be intimate. I’m like, I don’t even like you. And he said, I think I might need to fire you. I think you, and I thought that’s a good idea. So, you know, we kind of rode this wave and, and, and John Rose up in the speaking. And then once I had raised our children, we had raised our children. I started to run into women at the grocery store or, you know, at the shopping mall and they would just open up to me and complain or pine or tell me, you know, things that were going on in their own marriage. And several of them were, were headed for divorce.
KG (04:33):
And the more I started talking to them, the more I realized I started to see a pattern. And it, it was really simple things because the one question I seemed to always ask when these women would, would tell me what was going on was, have you shared that with him? Did you communicate with that with him and nine times outta 10? No. And so I was really shocked to find that so many couples are married, but they don’t communicate. So I went home to John and the more I started talking about this, I said, I really feel like we need to write a book because our book is not a book about, oh my gosh, look at us. Our marriage is so great. Look what we did. Here’s all the great things about our marriage. Our book is about here is what we went through.
KG (05:25):
We went through the trenches. I mean, we went through some really, really hard times. I was very, very sick early on. There was some infidelity, there’s been some substance abuse. I mean, we’ve really ran the gamut. And so I really felt like if we could, if we could, if we could make it, anybody could. And so I wanted to write this book to, to try and save marriages. And so in the book, the way we wrote it, and even the way we wrote, it’s very symbiotic of our relationship. I would sit down and write a chapter and, and, and get up. John would sit down, edit what I wrote and then write his own and vice versa. I’d edit him and he’d edit me. But it was a back and forth. Our book is a back and forth. It’s the it’s Catherine said and it’s John said. And so that was the reason we, we wanted to write this book and it was, I think no coincidence that it ended up coming out right before the pandemic, because I have to tell you, there were times during the pandemic, John Gordon was home 24 hours a
RV (06:36):
KG (06:37):
Now listen, Laurie.
RV (06:39):
After years of being gone. Yes.
KG (06:41):
For, for the year before he had done 85 speaking engagements on the road, all of a sudden he was like, literally with me nonstop. So definitely there were times we had to open up the book and, and take some of our own advice.
RV (06:56):
RV (08:12):
And how are we saving for the kids? This are we’re going on vacation. We need a new car and da, da, da, da. And then it’s like, you get to the end of the day. And you’re like, I’m exhausted. Like, I, I don’t wanna think, I, I, I can’t think like I don’t, I don’t have anything left. And so you go by the time the kids go to sleep and everything is quiet and you’ve eaten dinner and you’ve cleaned up and it’s like, you got, you got nothing left. So is that kind of what y’all were going through? Cuz I I’m describing, I’m not describing my life. I’m describing other people’s lives, but I’ve heard that other people have this, this scenario.
KG (08:47):
Well, Rory, you just described our life. I mean, yes, it was, it was hard. And so what I tell couples, because I actually hear exactly what you just said all the time. We all, I think struggle with that to one degree or another. I think at the end of the day, you need to realize that you’re a team and it’s it’s we, not me. What are the things that we found that was, was really helpful for us is going the extra mile. It’s that little thing. And trust me, John would come in, he had been traveling nonstop. I wanted to pounce on him to rather share, you know, a good or bad situation with one of our kids. So I had to figure out, you know what, I need to give John this buffer zone. And so we need to give each other buffer zones.
KG (09:41):
And then after that, really, even though what you really wanna do is look after yourself, try to give a little bit of time what, whatever it is, you know, go out and help, help your wife unload the groceries. Just really try to, to, to give, even though you feel like you’re, you’re about, you know, you’ve, you’ve reached your limit. What we started to find John’s word one year was oh my gosh, I gotta make sure I say it, say it right. It was serve. And it was the best year of my life.
KG (10:40):
And that’s the last thing John wanted to do, but he did it. And I gotta tell you by the end of that year and it wasn’t just him giving, of course it was me and F you know, whatever we needed at the time. Mm-Hmm
RV (11:23):
Yeah. That it’s, it’s also a, it’s also shockingly scary how quickly you can turn against each other. Mm-Hmm
KG (12:11):
I think it’s different things they’re not communicating, but just in general, just say let me give you an example. Well, I’m trying to think a girlfriend the other day was just saying something she’s home. She’s taking care of the kids. Mm-Hmm
RV (13:48):
John, let me, let me tell you, I know I have figured out through an, an unfortunate repeated occurrence of doing this at the wrong time. I know one time you should not communicate you should not give feedback to your spouse in response to them giving feedback to you.
KG (14:36):
A hundred percent? It’s funny you say that John Gordon used to do the same thing. And with us, it used to be really more related to the kids. Also, you know, where, you know, I’d say, well, he’d say, well, you really need to be doing this. Or, you know, and I’d say, well, you need to be doing this. Yeah. That doesn’t serve anybody. So you’re right.
RV (15:50):
I wanna ask you about the little kids, right? So Jasper just turned five. Our oldest and then Liam is a, a, just a couple months here, away from being three. And I was having this conversation with a friend because I’m like these last few years with kids have been some of the most beautiful and fun and joyous. And also for me personally, probably the most difficult years that I’ve ever had. And I was telling them, like, not only is it kids, we also are in year four of a startup. And we already did this once before, like we already went through the pains of a startup once and we’re having to do it again. And then we had COVID and then it’s like in the middle of COVID. And like, when it, with the kids specifically, like in my mind, I have a little bit of a proof of concept with COVID because, you know, when we were building our first business, we started in 2006, but sort of the height of it really happened around 2008, 2010.
RV (16:56):
And that was right in the middle of the GE C the global economic crisis, like the mortgage, you know, all of the mortgages collapsed and all that stuff. And, you know, it was like, that was a, a hard season, but we came out of it and we came out of it really strong. We’ve also had the startup thing before with children. People say it gets easier over time. So like, I know that it gets easier with the business, like a little bit. But is if someone has young kids right now, is that really true? I mean, like, do you really think, Hey, those early years are different or is it always kind of just, this is just the new normal
KG (17:35):
Mm-Hmm
RV (18:19):
I’ve not heard, I’ve not heard that one before.
KG (18:21):
RV (19:21):
It’s
KG (19:21):
Relationship, grit, book.com. And there’s an action plan in there.
RV (19:27):
I just texted her that question. So I’m gonna see what she says. Yeah.
KG (19:35):
Yeah. But I’ll tell you yeah.
RV (19:37):
Relation, sorry. Relationship grit,
KG (19:40):
Relationship grit, book,
RV (19:44):
Book.Com.Com. Okay. Yeah, we’ll put it.
KG (19:46):
I have to make sure and ask Daniel if it’s back slash action plan, but
RV (19:51):
Yeah. Daniel Decker, didn’t you meet Daniel Decker at most. Isn’t that how you guys met back to Mo that was,
KG (19:56):
Can you believe this was so long ago? I mean, this was 21 years ago that these guys have been together ride in this energy bus wave that they’ve done. Yeah, I think so. I think he brought his kids in for kitty, the clown night.
RV (20:17):
Well, I I’ll, I, I love that. Shout out to Daniel Decker. I’m we’ve been working closely together on ed by let’s book launch. So I’ve got to know, know him a lot more here recently, but the, okay, so you gotta find ways to communicate. So, so this is the hardest times, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. That makes, makes sense. When does it start to turn? Like what you say that like with kids, Hey, these are the, the hardest times like, cuz I think what makes it so hard is like, I never knew how self-centered I was until I had kids. Like even when I, we got married, I realized, oh, like I’m, you know, I’ve never had to worry about anyone else, but me, but, but when we had kids, it went to a whole nother level where it’s like, I don’t get to sleep.
RV (21:04):
I don’t get to eat. I don’t get to go to the bathroom alone. Like I don’t get to read a book on the weekend. I don’t get to lay on the beach. Like the beach is not a relaxing experience whatsoever with children. Like it, it is, it is the weekends. I’m more physically exhausted on the weekends than I am during the week. And also the battle of, you know, having toddlers and like just trying to communicate with them. So at some point that starts to turn and that’s encouraging to me to hear you say like, look, these are the toughest times. If you can get through this as a team, like you’ll make it through anything. What is that? I kind of feel like that’s happened with Jasper at like four or five years old. It kind of feels like it’s starting to turn the corner a bit.
KG (21:49):
Yeah. You know, I gotta tell you those when they were little. Woo. I’ll never forget a life changing moment for me was the day I was able to sit in the, at the beach in a chair and not have to run after the kids in the water. You know, I, there were little milestones where I’m like, oh my gosh, I can actually sit here. So yes, it just continually continually will improve. But like I said, you know, then you’ll start doing, if they’re in sports, it’s who’s gonna drive them. And the other thing I wanna say, Rory is, you know, you’re two professionals, so you and AJ are both, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re running this company and I have found, I’m gonna say this for the women in general. And I understand why, but a lot more does fall on the mom. It does.
KG (22:44):
It does, even though John was very involved with the kids in a lot of ways, ultimately it’s mom. And so it’s about having that grace for mom. And I always tell this story too. I think it’s really important to compliment, you know, your spouse and just lift them up. So I tell this story that one year when we were really in it, like I, like I say, it was very stressful. John was traveling all the times time. Both the kids were in elite sports and I was traveling all over the place, my kids and I have celiac disease. So we can’t just go to a drive through a McDonald’s and eat. I had to prepare
RV (23:30):
All of you have Celiac’s disease. Yeah.
KG (23:34):
Yeah. Whoa.
RV (23:35):
So
KG (23:35):
It was, it was really hard and I will never forget one day John coming in and he, he was getting ready to head out, you know, on another flight. And he was, had this suit on, he was all clean. He looked so handsome and Rory, I, my hair was disheveled. I’m, you know, trying to get the kids lunches. And I looked over at him and I wanted to cut him down so bad, but I didn’t, I, I, right then I realized it’s because I, I felt bad about myself, but I just thought, you know what? I turned, I looked at him. I said, you look so handsome in that suit and just complimented his face, just lit up. And I, I made a decision from that point on that I was going to compliment him and lift him up Mo at most, when I was feeling the lowest and just do this little test for myself and I’m gotta tell you, it really changed things for me. And so now I always tell couple couples compliment each other. You know, even though you probably wanna kill ’em compliment, ’em, you’ll be surprised how it changes the energy and the dynamic in your relationship together. Yeah. So Rory, you gotta stick it out. You gotta stick it out. It’s hard during these times. So like I said, one of the things is when, when, when they get outta diapers, that’s a big one is Japer outta diapers is Japer your youngest.
RV (25:04):
Liam is our youngest and, and he is out of diapers right now. We happen to be in overnight potty training. So we are waking up, he potty training in the middle of, so during the day, like, it’s, it is mostly he’s good, but we have to get up in the middle of the night to take him to the bathroom and sometimes, you know, change the sheets and all that stuff. But mostly if we wake up in the middle of the night, he’s fine. So like, we’re, we’re getting closer to that. The other thing is like, we went to a hockey game the other night and it was, it was, we got to watch like two thirds of the game before they started going crazy and running around the hallways. But it was like, oh, we’re almost, we can almost watch a whole movie. We can almost watch a whole game.
RV (25:45):
But you know, you, you, I wanna ask you this, Catherine, you mentioned the grace part cuz cuz yeah, it’s been hard on me. Mm-Hmm
KG (26:53):
RV (26:54):
So, so anyways, I, I say all that to say this, you mentioned, you know, give mom grace mm-hmm
KG (27:34):
I, I can’t tell you how many times I would be on the phone at night and you know, you know, complaining dumping on John. And then I’d say, let me guess you’ve got the TV on and you can watch whatever you want right now. Right. I mean, it was hard. I
RV (27:51):
Think. How do we support our wives better in that, in that season?
KG (27:55):
I think exactly by what you just said, supporting your wives, meaning saying exactly the things that you’re saying to me right now and acknowledging to AJ, AJ, I know this is hard for you, you know, I know and acknowledging sometimes, and I’m, I can share this about John and I, John would almost wanna play it down because he, he was almost afraid if he really acknowledged how hard it was that it was gonna somehow change what he was doing. Does that make sense until he realized by actually acknowledging how hard it was for me and asking me, how can I support you? It, it really helped us. And then it didn’t make me look over at him with such, you know, resentment. I was able to, I felt acknowledged. I felt appreciated. Right? And then at the end of the day, I had to say to myself, of course I love my kids.
KG (28:56):
This is what I wanna do for my kids. So it kind of changed, you know, it’s the thing that John always says, like it’s the, the, the get to versus the have to, but it’s the same thing. You know, it kind of changed my paradigm to say, I get to do this, but let me tell you when, when, when you’re getting beaten down, you know, as I think moms do more than, but I hear what you’re saying. When you say Rory, I mean, it’s hard for both of you, but yeah. I think you need to support her number one, by just acknowledging that it is hard
RV (29:29):
And that yeah. I,
KG (29:30):
And that you see her
RV (29:31):
And it’s like the, the, the, the, the dads, at least I could tell her to, let me just speak for myself, but we get beat down too. The difference is we get a break in between the action. Like mom gets no break. It, it is nonstop even in the middle of the night, even if the kids are fine, she’s still waking up, worrying about them and like getting up and having to like, deal with stuff like the laundry, what they’re gonna wear, like whatever, having a, having a fit. You know, I, I think you know, that is, that is helpful about just going, Hey, acknowledge what I hear you saying is just going, like, acknowledge that it’s difficult because it’s, it’s not, it’s not so much that she wants you to do it. She just wants someone to see that she’s doing it.
KG (30:20):
Yeah. It’s not gonna change tho that workload is not gonna change. I mean, yes, you can hire different things, but ultimately it is mom. I mean, it is, mom is, is gonna figure it all out, but it’s really about acknowledging how hard it is. And then how can I support you now? I’m gonna tell you, I encourage couples. If you do have a hard time communicating, if you are hitting a brick wall in some area, there’s nothing wrong with getting some outside help. Sometimes it does take somebody outside of the relationship to coach, you know, coach and help get, get you all to a place of where, you know, you’re, you’re operating smoothly, cuz sometimes, you know, maybe you are so beaten down or, you know, you’re not able to hear it. You’re too defensive. Right. You’ve got the point where you’re, you’re too defensive. So in that case, you know, I highly recommend some coaching or some therapy
RV (31:24):
Mm-Hmm
KG (31:24):
RV (31:36):
Yeah, no, I, I love that. It’s I think it’s super helpful to, for people just almost as a permission thing to be like, Hey, it doesn’t mean you’re failing or that you screwed up or that there’s something wrong with you to get outside. Help. I also love what Jack Canfield says where he says if you do it before, there’s, if you do it before like before there’s an explosion, it’s called coaching. If you do it after there’s an explosion, it’s called therapy, but they’re the same thing. And if you, you know, you probably want to catch it on the front end as much as you can to avoid the it avoid the, the big explosion. Yeah. Kathryn, I love this. This has been so, so helpful. I have one, one last question I wanna ask you before that, where again, where should people go to find you and connect up with what you’re doing and like all, all of this stuff that you’re working on in your personal brand these days? Well,
KG (32:31):
And I also have a podcast called Catherine for real. And you can hear that on Spotify or apple. And my podcast is basically me interviewing people and I’m, I’m getting real. And AJ, your one wonderful wife has really helped me to, to, to clarify more of what I want to give and the type of people I wanna interview going forward. So check that out, Katherine, for real, and you can reach [email protected]. That’s my website. And on the website, you can access my my podcast. You can find me on Instagram, through there at Katherine Gordon. You can email me to reach out and there’s a link to order my book. And I’m gonna tell you something, I’m not just saying this because I wrote the book. I promise you read my book. It’s a quick, easy read, you know, follow the tips in the back, John and I both give 11 tips each on ways to improve your marriage and do the action plan. I, I get so many testimonials all the time from people to tell me it, it saved their marriage. So I’m, I’m not just saying that. I really believe it. If you, if you can, can check that out, read the book. I think it will help. So Rory, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be questioning you. I want you to know that
RV (33:57):
I love it. I love it. So we’ll put links up to Kathryn for real.com. The relationship grit book, the Kathryn for real podcast will link all that in the show notes for y’all. Last question for you, Kathryn. You know, like I think of my mom who was a single mom, which is insane. I mean, she had two of us, two of us that were five years, two boys, five years apart. And how many times she must have felt unseen and like having to, you know, forego her personal dreams and visions and freedom and re relaxation. And now watching AJ do that as a mother, hearing your story. Like I just, I have a, a heartbreak for women who are doing so much and feeling so unseen mm-hmm
KG (35:03):
Mm, well, first I’d say pray, right? I really feel like my prayers and my connection with God has helped me a lot in trying to kind of pulls me outta myself and gives me some perspective. But the other thing I’m gonna say is, is nothing is forever and nothing is permanent. And remembering your why, you know, at the end of the day with my kids, when I would, you know, was running them around and you know, they were playing all these sports and I would, you know, sometimes get resentful. I started to realize like, you know what, I didn’t grow up having a, I had two alcoholic parents that had no interest in anything I was doing, and this was something I wanted to give back to my kids. And so I need to be doing that with love and knowing that one day they’re gonna grow up and one day I won’t have to do that. And so nothing’s permanent. Remember your why and pray?
RV (36:06):
I love it. Katherine Gordon, my friends, you see why we love her so much and make sure you follow her online and go check out her website and everything. Katherine, thank you so much. We wish you all the best. We’re praying for you and John and we’re excited to we’ll see you soon.
KG (36:23):
Thank you, Rory. Thanks for having me.
Ep 295: Keys to Powerful Presentations from My Favorite Hollywood Actress Stephanie Szostak | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, all, welcome to the recap episode of my conversation with Stephanie Szostak, who is my favorite Hollywood actress
AJV (01:48):
And it was a very non-traditional route and it was a great reminder to me. And what I wanna share on this recap episode is that it’s never too late. It’s never too late to start something new, to find your calling and be the best at it that you can possibly be. And I love this because Stephanie started her modeling and her acting to career in her late twenties. Y’all most people are starting their modeling careers in their late teens, not their late twenties. So in theory, she was a decade behind the ball. And also this isn’t recent, right? This was now almost 20 years ago. So this wasn’t common for that time period for her to be doing this in her late twenties, but she did. And then she started acting and it’s like, she got at her start quote unquote late, but I don’t think it was late.
AJV (02:35):
I think it was perfectly time for exactly where she was doing, what she was meant to do at that time of her life. That’s true for you too. It’s true for me. It was true for her. And it’s true for you. You are not too old. You are not too young. It is not too early. It is not too late to do what you feel like you were called to do, to do what you’re passionate about doing the time is right now. And it’s the best time. It’s the best time, right. Frigging now. So I love that and I loved her story. I just love her story in general of, it’s never too late to reinvent and to be something new and to be somebody new and not being afraid to do that. And yeah, it will cause new learning curves and changes, but that’s okay because if that’s what you’re called to do, it’s all worth it.
AJV (03:26):
I love this quote and I’m, I don’t have the, the name of the person who quoted this, but I’m gonna share it anyways, even though I cannot give credit where credit is due, this is not my quote, do not quote me on this. But it’s like, it’s going to be hard, but cause you’re passionate about it. It’ll all be worth it. I will find the author of that quote and put it in the show notes, but I love that quote. It’s like, yeah, it’s gonna be hard, but because you’re passionate about it, it will all be worth it. And that is a great reminder of one of big takeaways I took from this episode of just accounting, her story of how she got into acting and modeling. And today she has been in so many amazing movies and shows and is incredible at what she does.
AJV (04:14):
But started in her late twenties seemingly too late, but actually perfectly timed for exactly where she should be and what she should be doing. Okay. That was the first thing. The next two things do have to do with some presentation tips and I love this and I, I think these are really important for anyone who gives presentations. And let me just be clear. School teachers give presentations, parents give presentations, employees, employers, speakers, authors, consultants, podcasters. Yes. We all give presentations. Like if you are in a job of communicating to another human person, you give presentations, you just don’t view it that way, but you do. And that is a communication change that we all need to have in terms of public speaking and presentations. And I think it’s so interesting that, you know, the number one fear of people is public speaking, even above death.
AJV (05:06):
Like that’s just fascinating, but yet we all speak in public all the time. Like when do you not speak in public? Like you’re talking to strangers all the time when you order your coffee or you order food. And yes, I know they’re not like formal presentations, but are we afraid to do those things or is it just the idea of being in front of a group of people and being stared at and potentially judged and not knowing how they’re gonna perceive you? Is that what we’re really afraid of? Not the speaking itself, but really the fear of being judged. And I think that’s a better thing of what people are really afraid of. It’s not public speaking. It’s what if I don’t bring any value? Right? What if they don’t like it? What if they don’t like me? What if somebody records, it puts on the internet and I become a meme, right?
AJV (05:54):
That’s what we’re afraid of. Not public speaking, we’re not afraid of that. We’re afraid of all the things that come with public speaking. So I think that was in really good context of you gotta get really clear on like, what are you trying to convey and what emotion do you wanna convey when you’re doing it? And it can’t be a, an emotion of fear. That’s for dang sure. And so I think the first thing I’ve loved about this is she really gets in the mindset of you have to be in tune with what emotion are you trying to create before you go out and try to create it so simple, but yet still freaking hard to like really tap into it’s like, how do I wanna tell this story? How do I wanna deliver this message? How do I want the audience to feel?
AJV (06:43):
And in her case, you know, of viewers around the world, how do I want them to feel in this moment? And I think that comes back to again, something else that’s really important is we’re afraid when we make it all about us. But if we were to change our mindset on what it means to public speak or present or communicate, and we were less focused on how are we gonna sound? How are we gonna look? How are people gonna view us? And we were more concerned with how do I help them get this information in a way that’s gonna be impactful to them? How do I share this information in a way that they will receive it? Or how do I give it to them in a way that they will enjoy it, have fun with it, use it right? But if we make it about them, not us, it changes the landscape of how we create our presentations and how we communicate in general.
AJV (07:35):
But you gotta go with it with what do I want them to feel? Not how do I wanna feel? How do I want them to feel and start your presentation, start your plan for communication from there. So good. So, so good. Loved that. Third thing, last thing I’m gonna share, I’m trying to keep these under 10 minutes always for your listening convenience. But here’s the last thing that I would share that I thought was a really good takeaway is just how you get yourself in the mindset before you communicate or present. And that could be again to your family to a video camera like I’m doing right now. I’m not talking to anyone right now. I’m talking to myself on zoom, but I have all of you in mind. Right? So it’s like, I need to know. It’s like, what do I really want you to get from this?
AJV (08:22):
So it’s like, I’m not presenting to a group of people right now, but yet I am, I am presenting to a group of people because I have you all in mind. So how are you getting yourself in the right mind space, the right head space before you go in and present, right? So she gives ideas around like, do you have music that you listen to? Do you have affirmations that you read, right? Is there like some sort of body movement that you do? Do you have notes that you wanna look over, but what are you doing to get yourself in the right space to make sure that you bring your best self to that presentation or communication or video or whatever it is that encounter that it’s like, what are you doing to put yourself in like game mode? Right?
AJV (09:15):
So I don’t know why that came to mind, but it’s like, I’m pretty sure I’d have an idea of what I would do. I’d probably have some warm up rounds. I’d have my playlist prepared and ready to go. I would have my affirmations. Are we doing the same thing when we turn on that camera and hit record? Or are we doing that same thing before we address our team? Or are we doing that same thing before we have that one-on-one conversation? Or before we step on stage, before we hit go on a podcast interview, right? Are we, are we getting in game mode before we go and do it? So yeah, this was such a solid interview. So many applicable tips. And what I loved, it’s not just about being a presenter, IE, a speaker or an actress is about how to be a communicator. We all communicate. And this is, this applies to all of us. So how do we get in the mode of being good communicators? And just realizing like it’s about them. Not us is about them. Not us. Go listen to this episode, go check out the full thing, go look up Stephanie, show stack, coolest girl ever love her. Go check her out. Go listen to the episode and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand. We’ll see. Y’all.
Ep 294: Keys to Powerful Presentations from My Favorite Hollywood Actress Stephanie Szostak
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. I’m one of your co-hosts here CEO and co-founder of brand builders group. And today I’m so happy because I get to spend the next 45 minutes with one of the most awesome human beings on the planet and also a good friend and probably one of the most discreet, humble humans ever, because she would never tell you all of these amazing accomplishments
AJV (01:47):
But what I want everyone to know is why should you stick around in this conversation? So we’re gonna get to chat with Stephanie show stack today, who is just an incredible human being. But I think some things that you should know that maybe you don’t know, and if you’re not watching this, you clearly can’t see her face. So you may not recognize her name, but you would definitely recognize her face because she has been in some of the top Hollywood movies that are out there, iron man, three devil warriors product. One of the top hit shows on TV, a million little things I could go on and on and on. You have worked with some of the most well known actors and actresses across the world. But to me more importantly is your heart. It’s like you have done awesome things, but you are an amazing human being. And to get to share a little bit of you with our audience today is such an honor and such a treat. So welcome to show Stephanie,
SS (02:46):
Thank you for having me AJ
AJV (02:49):
SS (03:49):
Yes, not, not the traditional way I studied. First of all, I’m from France. I grew up in France and never thought about acting, never took an acting class. I came to the states to study business and to play golf at the college of women, Mary. And once I was done once I graduated, I moved to New York city and worked at Chanel in fashion. And then at 26 years old I just realized there was a little something inside of me that felt like I wasn’t, there was something missing and through a chance opportunity, I did a modeling gig. And then I thought, well, maybe I could be a model and figure out what I, what it is I really wanna do. And so I did that and then at 29 years old, so three years of modeling and then at 29 years old, I took an acting class. Again, I’m not quite sure why I just had this little voice that was like, I wanna take an acting class. I wanna take an acting class. And then there, I realized for the first time in my life, really that I loved something that I needed to do. Something that I, I was passionate about it. And I didn’t know if it was gonna be a profession. I just knew I needed to pursue it.
AJV (05:10):
So first of all, the fact that you pay attention to this little voice, I think says a lot about just a huge part of who you are and something I know from a huge part of our community is that most people feel like they have this calling on their life and they feel like they have this message within them. They feel like there’s this thing that they really wanna do, but for whatever reason, they don’t listen to that little voice. They don’t listen to that prompting. They push it down, they shove it away, lock it in a drawer and keep on with everyday life. So what was it about this that made you go, this is not a little voice I’m going to ignore. I’m gonna do something.
SS (05:51):
I think it’s curiosity. I, I don’t think, you know, right away I’m gonna do something. I’m gonna make a big move because that’s scary, but it’s just curiosity and just making one more step in that direction and exploring and being opened to whatever and also surround being surrounded by people who support those choices, I think is a huge one. And I’m really lucky you know, to be married to somebody who’s always supported that, that sense of adventure and yeah, go for it. Try it out.
AJV (06:31):
Yeah. I think, I think something you just said there, like really resonates is just being curious and it’s willing to go. Yeah. Like I don’t know everything and that’s okay. Even if this doesn’t work out, that’s okay. Even if it’s only one time that’s okay. But being adventurous and curious enough to even try.
SS (06:50):
Yeah. And throughout your whole life, like even now, you know, 20, some years later, just staying curious and not pigeon holding, is that the pigeonholing yes. Yourself into, oh, I’m an actor that I can’t do this because that would not fit now. Just be like, why not?
AJV (07:11):
SS (07:53):
Just, I, I, there’s an exercise that somebody had me do that I love and it’s called the impossible future. And it’s a great brainstorming exercise for all of your life. And so if there was no ops, the exercise is this. If there were no obstacles, no money obstacle, no nothing. What would be your impossible future and be as detailed as possible with your professional life personal life. And then once you describe it, how do you feel? And I think that’s the key point. Like you know, because maybe at first it’s outcomes and successes, but then why, how does that make me feel? And I think that will give for me when I did this, it helped me figure out what it is I was after really it brought clarity. And then after that, you’re like, okay, what’s the first thing I can do right now to go towards this. And it’s less daunting cuz you’re not chasing an outcome that is, you know, so far fetched, you’re just pursuing trying to be in alignment with what you’re striving for, to feel in your life.
AJV (09:10):
Yeah. And I think that’s really in line with a huge part of the calling on your life is to help other people kind of like find their truth. Right. Mm-hmm
SS (09:59):
SS (10:59):
Don’t judge yourself, accept it all and, and then move from there towards what you wanna do. But and your question was how do you stay true to yourself by playing other characters? Yeah, I think that can also be confusing at the beginning of my acting career. I certainly had a little bit of trouble sometimes, you know, drawing the line between reality and, and art. Because when you invest into a character, you can lose yourself a little bit in the character. But I think experience helps and being a mom and having kids really helps because you come home and, and there’s reality for you.
AJV (11:41):
SS (11:43):
But also when you talked about a brand, so it’s interesting cuz as an I, I worked with you and you were incredible at helping me actually figure out a message and or maybe if I even had a message, which I was not sure about, and I don’t really see it as having a brand or pursuing a brand or trying to put a brand out there for me, it’s more more clarifying my path or refining it and being curious and then bringing alignment between all of these facets of my life. And then you help me be like, there’s the brand, but I don’t, I don’t think of it that way, if that makes sense. So it’s more about staying in alignment personally with all the different facets of my life. And then if there is a brand at the end of the day, great
AJV (12:43):
SS (13:08):
Connection. Yeah.
AJV (13:09):
Connection. And helping people feel wanted and feeling a part of something. Right. And a huge part of that. That is your story of coming from another country. And I think there there’s a challenge and most people think, well, there’s just, I just do too many different things, but most of us all have a through line. If we just sit down and take a little bit of extra fine tuning work to connect the dots to make together. And so let’s, I wanna talk about two things, cuz I know that I could easily spend the next 25 minutes just picking your brain on all these curious things that I have for you. But there’s two really significant things that I think you’re gonna bring a ton of value and insight for, into our audience. And so the first one has to do with your profession, right?
AJV (13:59):
You’re an actor and incredible one at that. I love getting to watch you on screen and now that I know you, I go back and I’m like, I know this person it’s such a treat for me to get to see you in your element. I love that. But one of the things is that so many of the people that listen to our podcast and are part of our, our community they present in some fashion, right? They’re making content videos on social media or they’re a professional speaker or they’re an aspiring speaker or they’re doing interviews for the media or maybe it’s even just presenting to their, their team or their company. And so I think it would be really awesome to go, what are some, you know, tips of the trade of being powerful in front of other people or being powerful on the screen to connect with people and engage with people and draw them in emotionally. So what do you got for us? What are tips of the
SS (14:55):
Trip? Hmm. Okay. So, you know, as an actor, you can work from the outside in or the inside out. So because the outside in is your wardrobe. So let’s start with that.
SS (15:58):
And I had a sweater on because I’m home and I, you know, we do all this at home. And then I was like, no, I feel sloppy with my, no, I need, I’m gonna put a blazer.
SS (17:08):
So adding images, subtext, be behind the words make, bringing yourself to it as much as you can be bringing your authenticity. And then having an objective that is bigger than yourself is big for enacting. And I think it transfers to people in life when we are trying to communicate something, we’re all nervous. We all are thinking of the outcome we want, but let’s have a bigger purpose. What is our why? And then when you’re, if you’re connecting to that, then it’s like, oh, you know, you, you, you bring something bigger and you connect. I think, I think it transcends just you and whatever you’re saying.
AJV (17:58):
Yeah. I know. You said two things there I think are potentially so simple that they’re overlooked, but are really, really significant. And I totally relate to what you said around I’m sure there’s been millions of people who’ve said that, but it’s like the way you dress actually impacts the way you represent yourself, that the way you stand, the way you walk, how you feel it’s like, Mmm. For probably 90% of today I had on my workout gear.
SS (19:06):
AJV (19:06):
Yes. I, I love that. I think that’s, especially in a time over the last two and a half years where so many people have been home for way too long. And perhaps not pulling out every day real outside of the house clothes. Right. Like, I’m pretty sure I had a six month stint where all I wore was work, all clothes. I’m pretty sure it was like six months. And there came a time where I’m like, good Lord. I have all these clothes. I should probably put them on. Right. And it was amazing. Like when I started dressing up, my husband was like, are you going somewhere?
SS (19:42):
That’s what my hu my husband, I would come down. He’d be like, where are you going? And I was like, I’m sick of feeling like that
AJV (19:49):
SS (20:29):
Yes. And, and, and there’s a power in images. Mm-Hmm
AJV (21:11):
I think that’s so important. And for someone who literally does this in front of a screen, right in front of cameras, for anyone who’s listening, who makes a content video or does a podcast, right? It’s like, you’re doing that for an audience of no one it’s literally you and a computer screen. So you almost have to tap into it even more for it to come across in a way that would draw someone in and be engaging. Otherwise it can really just feel like a talking head on a screen. And although the words have a lot of content and information and motivation without the delivery of it, we probably won’t last, very long listening.
SS (21:52):
Right. Exactly.
AJV (21:54):
Oh, I love that.
SS (21:54):
And I, and I think practicing if you’re, you know, if you’re preparing or, or it would, it’s an interesting exercise also to do it with different stim, like memories and you can see, oh, it’s very different when I think of this, as opposed to when I think of that.
AJV (22:12):
Oh, that’s interesting. Well, I think to that, it’s like practice actually practice your practice art
SS (22:18):
Practice, and then let go,
AJV (22:21):
SS (23:05):
But yes, for me, I can only speak for me, but, and I do think we all are different. Some of us need to prepare, prepare, prepare, and some of us are like, you’re incredible. I remember when we worked together, I just told you a story and you were like, okay, this is how it’s gonna go. And you just came up with, you know, how you would say it. And it was, I, I was amazed. I need to prepare if I don’t prepare, I’m lost. I prepare so much way too much
SS (24:00):
And I was able to be like, oh, this is, you know, re readjust some things I didn’t like, I would practice out of order my keynote. And then in the shower, I mean, in the shower driving randomly, I’d be like, okay, what’s this portion and just come up with it. And then the great thing for me about practicing when I’m either driving or in the shower, in those moments where you are not you can’t get out of wherever, you know, your box, your car or your shower is things. Things come into my mind and I’m like, ah, new things come into my mind. And I’m like, Ooh, I need to add this. I need to add that.
AJV (24:43):
I love that. You know, one of the things that I remember, oh my gosh, this is so long ago now. Maybe 17 years ago. I don’t know. It was a long time ago. Let’s just say 15 years plus
SS (25:56):
That’s I love that. I do that with, you know, when I listen to a podcast or listen, more of messages that I hear, and I’m like, I wanna remember that. But you’re talking about stories happening and that’s great. I love that
AJV (26:14):
Because I find for me, I dunno, that’s so good. I dunno if it’s just my mom brain or what, but if I don’t write it down, however impactful, it is seven days from now. I will not remember. Like, it just like, it just like evaporates from my, my brain and as the mom of a two year old and a five year old, at least 10 fascinating things happen every day.
SS (27:06):
I everything’s an art. Yes.
AJV (27:09):
It’s like, I want people to be drawn into my speeches, the way that I’m drawn into your movies. Mm-Hmm,
SS (27:21):
An emotional, an emotional arc. Yeah. To all relate to the person.
AJV (27:26):
I mean, I think that’s so much of it. It’s like, you’ve gotta like really live into the character and create those, create those emotions. It’s a, I don’t know if I’ve ever sat through a speech and said, have to watch it again, have to see again, right. Like we do in the movie because there’s, there’s drama and there’s humor. And there’s, you fall in love with characters or you hate characters. I bet you, you, you get enthralled in it. I can’t think of any keynote speech where I’m like, have to see it again right now. I’ll pay another admission. I don’t think I’ve ever said that, but I would love to find a way for people to start feeling that way about seeing people speak as they do about watching a Hollywood movie. Right. so I love that ability of how do we create that same amount of connection into speaking as you do into creating movies.
AJV (28:17):
So, all right. I’m gonna switch gears just a little bit, cause I’m watching the clock and I’m going, oh my gosh, we only have seven more minutes.
SS (28:59):
So our boob stories I was inspired one day when I was on set. My character had been taken the sexy route, which means in Hollywood that you know, I was wearing short dresses, padded bras, and stuffed bras. And not that big boobs are not sexy. I think they’re really sexy, but I, I don’t have big boobs. And I was like, gosh, I wonder what it’s like for young girls to grow up nowadays. And then I thought there’s a lot of talk out there about body image, body acceptance, and there’s no talk about boobs. And I thought, this is ridiculous. Don’t tell me we don’t think about our boobs because obviously we do. And so I wrote a poem with a friend of mine instead of being called, oh, the places you’ll go. It was called about, it was called, oh, the you’ll grow.
SS (29:49):
And it was about the ups and downs of boobs of life through our boob stories. And people started telling me when I would share the poem with them they started telling me about their boob stories and it was funny and touching and moving and sometimes tragic. And I thought, oh my gosh, that is actually a beautiful something that I want to collect. And I don’t know where this project is gonna go. But the, I think the reason is really, I would love to have something created, maybe a book for all young girls to read, you know, the ups and downs through the ages from budding to sagging that we all are insecure, that we all go through moments of the challenging moments, whether it be with nursing or cancer or so many things. There’s milestones that we go through in our lives in those milestones shape our us and our boobs. A lot of times, you know, sexuality and, and puberty motherhood, aging cancer. So right now I’m collecting boob stories. If you have a boob story, please go to Instagram at our boob stories and share your story.
AJV (31:16):
I love this so much. And clearly I know a ton of the background. I’ve read it, I’ve seen the pictures and the reason I wanted to bring it up is for two reasons, one it’s you listening to that inkling again, is you listening and you paying attention of, I see something here. I’m going to make the move
SS (32:47):
Yeah. And, and beyond that, and this is my overreaching message is really about acceptance and accepting what life throws at us with grace and compassion. And this is not something against getting a boob job or like just accepting, owning to who we are. And, you know, I want a boob job. I get a boob job and I own it. And this, this is how it makes how I feel better. But really about letting our light shine through the boob stories.
AJV (33:17):
SS (34:11):
Love, love for all the people around me and bringing love, giving love
AJV (34:20):
You do that.
SS (34:52):
Yeah, because you know, I just went to visit my son in college and when my husband and I drove BA were going back home, I, I kind of had a little bit of bad feeling. I was like, well, if our life ends right now, you know, we’ve done. Okay. Like, look at the love, look at we’re bringing up in two boys who have love and then the love around us. And so, yeah, I think love is a big, big thing.
AJV (35:21):
Ah, that’s so good. Okay. Only two questions left. I promise. So here’s the next one? What is something about Stephanie show stack that most people don’t know, but you wish they did know.
SS (35:34):
Oh, I eat any meat with bones. I will clean it. Clean beyond clean I’ll yeah.
AJV (35:43):
Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Meat eater, meat eater, meat
SS (35:47):
Eater.
AJV (35:49):
I would not have guessed to be honest. I would, that
SS (35:52):
Sounds naughty. I like it too.
AJV (35:55):
It’s like, I would not have guessed that if you were to ask me, I’d be like, she’s probably vegan. She’s probably like a lot of vegetables
SS (36:04):
But, but I’ll eat a rack, a rack of ribs, like I’ll clean the bones, you know, beyond clean. Awesome.
AJV (36:11):
That’s awesome. Alright. Last, all right. Last last question that I have for you is what would, what piece of advice, or even if it’s not advice, one piece of hope or inspiration, like what’s one thing that you would share to people out there. Who, again, they’re not quite sure what to do next, but they, they know they wanna do something different. They kind of feel like you did back in your twenties when you’re like, man, this just isn’t what I wanna be doing. There’s gotta be something else. What would you advice or encouragement? What would you say to them to help them make that next leap or make that next jump?
SS (36:56):
Self exam, self examination, like do the work. And I know I wasn’t ready to do it till I was in my forties. So it’s a lot of work, but just learn about yourself, figure out we all know what we’re about. We just, it’s hard to remember it because we get distracted. We get sidetracked, life throws us curves, and then we lose the path. But if we take a little bit of time and journal and there’s a lot of exercises out there that will help self-examine and figure out what your guiding principles are, what your values are that will help realize, oh, thi this is what I want my life to be about. And I think when you have a bigger objective, bigger meaning than what you wanna do, next becomes very clear and simplified.
AJV (37:57):
Mm. I love that. It’s self inspection self-reflection but getting to know yourself, mm-hmm,
SS (38:04):
AJV (38:22):
So it’s a re getting to know yourself. Mm-Hmm
SS (39:01):
Yeah. And how do I want sometimes, I mean, it’s such a, who am I, you know, the question of a lifetime, but what do I want to feel in life? What do I want to feel? And that, and why? And I think then you can say, well, what are my actions? Are they helping me feel that way?
AJV (40:17):
That’s good. You’ve got your code of arms and then your code of harms.
SS (40:21):
Yes.
AJV (40:22):
Yeah. I love that. And I know,
SS (40:23):
I love that
AJV (40:24):
You’re really into self development and it shows like you’re, you’re C full of different exercise and examples and stories. And I think that’s a huge part of a Testament of a great reminder to all of us. It’s like, if we don’t investigate who we are, then how would we expect to know? Like no wonder, we all feel confused and aren’t happy and sitting here going, how did I get here? It’s like, because we didn’t have direction. Right.
SS (40:51):
We didn’t, we need a compass, a compass. And then, yeah. So do, if you have your values, if you have your principles, your daily controllables, then that is, that can serve as a compass for every decision making. And, and
AJV (41:09):
I love that. I can easily continue just chatting and asking you tons of questions. Thank you so much for coming on the show and just sharing a little bit of your brilliance and who you are. And this has been such a treat such an honor. And I’ll put this in the show the show notes for everyone. But if you’re out there listening and you wanna connect with Stephanie, go to Stephanie show, stack.com. I know you’re gonna spell it wrong. Dot me, dot me, get it wrong. Stephanie show.me. We just had a conversation about that. But also I know most people are gonna spell that wrong. So it’s Stephanie S Z O S T a K, do me. I will put that in the show notes. And then if you do have a boob story go to our boob stories on Instagram, share your story, Stephanie, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Thank you, AJ. You’re the best
AJV (42:04):
Ep 293: How to Read People with Vanessa Van Edwards | Recap Episode
RV (00:02):
Vanessa van Edwards. One of the
RV (00:05):
Coolest
RV (00:06):
Sharpest, smartest personal brands that I think is in the marketplace and we’ve become pretty good friends over the last few years ever since sharing the stage together at global leadership summit a few years ago. And she is really, really impressive. And just the science of people is what her brand is all about. And it’s, it’s literally all, all of this about reading people and their nonverbals. And I just, I think it’s fascinating and I think it’s so cool how she’s taken such a specific tri like a specific skill set, you know, all the way down with a very specific type of communication and turned it into such a magnificent personal brand, built it on science and research and data and just, just a really great example and an awesome, awesome person. So this is a recap, obviously of my interview with Vanessa van Edwards, her new book cues is what we talked about.
RV (01:03):
And I mean, just that idea alone of the, the title of the book that are, that there are social signals that we subconsciously send to one another is really powerful. And that’s of course what the whole interview, what her book, her whole book is about. And so I’m gonna, I’m gonna share with you a couple of my highlights and in this case, you know, there’s two big highlights, and then I’m gonna, I’m gonna teach you something that is a part of our curriculum at brand builders group, which I haven’t, I don’t think we’ve ever covered on this podcast. And it’s, it is game changer. Like this technique is the single, maybe the single most powerful technique that we have that we invented. This is our proprietary technique that will make you a master communicator. And I’ll, I’ll tell you what it is. That’s gonna be my third takeaway. But my first takeaway, which is just good to hear, and it’s edifying for what we do and what we teach and you go, how has she built nearly a million subscribers on YouTube, this great social media following she’s consistently selling all these books and built a, a tremendous speaking career. And she said two words aggressively helpful,
RV (02:21):
Aggressively helpful. If
RV (02:24):
You want to get people to pay attention
RV (02:26):
To you, you need to be aggressively helpful. You have to be
RV (02:32):
Relentless. You have to be intentional. You have to
RV (02:34):
Be committed. You have to be dedicated. You have to be ruthless about the idea that your
RV (02:40):
Brand, your media company, your platforms, your podcast,
RV (02:43):
Your social, your YouTube, like your books, your, your, your blogs,
RV (02:48):
Whatever you’re putting out into the world, your keynotes,
RV (02:50):
Your, your
RV (02:51):
Podcast interviews, like when you’re a guest in someone else’s show your webinars, your lead magnets,
RV (02:56):
They have to be aggressively helpful.
RV (02:58):
They to be useful, right? Albert Einstein says you don’t try. Don’t try to be a person of, of influence. Try to be a, a person of, of utility, like be valuable to other people. And that’s the secret. Like that’s the secret don’t hold back. As we say, around here all the time, save the best for first, save the best for first, give away your best stuff. And, and that’s what keeps people coming back. And so it’s just powerful. And again, edifying to have so many like guests on this show who have built huge personal brands that then come and tell us, Hey, this is, this is how to do it. And that’s why we do it is, is because we’ve learned from a lot of them over the years. And we continue to learn from them and, and we can, and we teach you those things, right?
RV (03:49):
So how can you be aggressively helpful? How can you put out content that will dramatically change people’s lives, save the best for first, give it away, make a difference and watch how people show up and come back and share and invite friends. The second thing, which the second, my second takeaway is probably what I would say is my biggest takeaway from this interview. And it is not really what the topic of the conversation was about in terms of how to read people. This though was something I’ve never heard anybody say, at least not so clearly as Vanessa said it. And I almost didn’t ask her this question. And I said, but I, you know, I we’re watching the data of all these book launches, right? So we just, we just helped Tom and Lisa BIU with their book launch launch. We’re helping Eric ed Mylet with his huge book launch right now.
RV (04:44):
We’ve, we’ve, we’ve, pre-sold tens of thousands of units. And so we’re watching all these book launches and, you know, I’m seeing Vanessa clock through every week with several hundred units. And it’s really impressive. It’s very, very hard to do, to sell consistently several hundred units. And so I asked her, I said, Hey, what’s your secret? Like, how do you do the long tail, right? Because we have all this, you know, we have a, a great strategy for how to do a book launch and all the presales and everything leading up to it in like the first eight weeks and, you know, keeping it going. I mean, we’ve got now, in my opinion, perhaps one of the best, if not the best book, launching strategy that there is in the marketplace. And, you know, we got a lot of the results to back that up and prove it with several best selling authors that we have helped.
RV (05:28):
But this long tail long, you know, this long tail is something that I’ve always been super interested in and going man, like what you really want is not, you know, not just the big launch, you want the big launch, you want the big book launch because it lights the spark, right? Like it sets things into motion, but the true perennial bestsellers are these, you know, books that sell several hundred or even a few thousand units every single week for years. And, you know, other than writing a great book and, and hopefully having it propagate, there’s not that much that I’ve seen or heard or learned, or been able to reverse engineer about how to make that happen. And Vanessa shared this great secret, and this was like a light bulb for me. And she said basically that she sells books by SEO, SEO search engine optimization.
RV (06:24):
If you’re not familiar with that term, now we teach SEO. That is a part of our, our curriculum and our, our high traffic strategies training, which is one of our, our phase two trainings. For those of you that aren’t members, we have 12 different topics that are 12 different training, you know, kind of like modules that are they’re each two days. You know, so our entire education takes 24 days just to like go through the full education. It’s, it’s a lot, it usually takes people three or four years to get through it all. But like, so we teach search engine op search engine optimization, but never in connection with selling books. And it’s so simple, right. But it’s so brilliant because you go, how do you create this steady, consistent, long tail sell through of a book? And you go, well, what, what force is there in the world that is steady and consistent and long term?
RV (07:20):
And the answer is search people’s search behavior, they’re search habits. People are searching for terms on a very consistent basis. And if you can figure out what are the terms that people are searching for. And of course, you know, there’s lots of different tools for this, but one of the ones that we, the one that we use internally, which is also the one that sounds like Vanessa uses is called a refs, a refs. And it’s a tool that will tell you, you know, you could type in any term and it’ll tell you, this is how many times this term is searched every, every month on Google. And then you can also go to pages and see which, you know, how, which, how, which, which terms pages are scoring for et cetera, and, and what the average cost per click is. If you want to go out and buy one and what she said, which first of all, this was a tactical tip, which I did not know is that a HFS has a secret tab for YouTube, which is huge, cuz because YouTube is also a search engine.
RV (08:20):
So that means that you can use this tool, which you might already have. And you know, MOS is another one Uber suggests is another one. Like they all, they all, you know, do a decent job of, of what you need to do. But AHS specifically since that’s what we use, I don’t know about the other ones, cuz she didn’t talk about it. But has this a tool that will tell you about YouTube search? So how often are people searching specific terms on YouTube? And then all she did was she made a list of all those terms. And then she created videos that were specific to those questions, which happen every single month, right? People are, are continuously like repetitively searching those terms. And every single month new people are on YouTube searching. And so she creates, she said for like every single book, she creates 20 videos that specifically address these common questions and those specific term search terms that people are looking for. And she creates videos for those where the primary focus of the video, first of all, is to add value, right. To be aggressively helpful. But the secondary vehicle is to promote her book specifically. Right. And all it doesn’t have to be overt. It doesn’t have to be a huge pitch. She’s just adding valuable content. She’s optimizing her presence in the PLA in the marketplace for terms and then suggestively and gently sort of referencing that what she’s teaching is coming out of her book.
RV (09:56):
So genius, so simple, so actionable. So duplicatable, so something that we are going to do. I mean, what, I mean, that’s a huge, that’s a career altering that one idea like could be a career altering idea of just going, because if you, if you write a book that sells several hundred copies every week, like within a few years, that’s a lot of people that have read the book, that’s gonna change the trajectory of your entire career. Like this was a really big tip and not something that I have heard anywhere else. Like out of all the stuff we’ve read that we’ve looked at the courses we’ve been through the, the hundreds of authors that I’ve interviewed, no one has ever given me that tip. So that was a huge, huge tip and one that we are definitely getting into action mode on. So really, really brilliant and smart and simple.
RV (10:53):
So I hope you pick that up and you know, if you’re not selling books apply this to anything, right. You’re selling mouse traps or you’re selling cars or you’re selling battleships, figure out what are the search terms that people are searching for, create VI videos specific to, to those queries optimize the video so that they come up for those, do an awesome video and then make a suggestive call to action to whatever your product of service is like. So we even teach that with content marketing, but just have never thought about it or applied it to a book like it’s, it’s so simple. And it’s like, how did I miss this? How have I never thought about this? Well, UN you don’t UN until, you know, you don’t know until, you know, right. But you go man, one little tip like that, SuperDuper powerful.
RV (11:38):
The third takeaway was something that I’ve heard before. And so I wanted to share with you one of our favorite techniques, and this is something that I personally invented. You know, our team has polished over the years and, and is a formal part of our world class presentation, craft trainings. So the one of our phase three, or excuse me, the third training in our phase in our phase one curriculum is called world class presentation craft. And it applies very much to what Vanessa’s talking about here. And, you know, she said nonverbal communication is 69% of, of communication. And she was talking about how, it’s not the words that you say, it’s your facial expressions. It is your eyes. It’s the, your gestures, your body language, even the clothes you wear, the colors that are around you are all things that communicate in a very clear way.
RV (12:35):
Although, you know, somewhat subconsciously to the people around us. And then she was talking about how our, our vocal pace and cadence is a huge component of that. And so I wanna go ahead and share with you one of our favorite techniques of all time and this, we call this the vocal variety matrix, the vocal variety matrix. And it’s very, very simple, but it’s extremely powerful. So if you were to create a graph where the Y the Y axis was energy, so high, you know, at the top would be high energy at the bottom would be low energy. Okay. and then the Y axis would be like speed, where you know, let’s, let’s say all the way to the right is fast. And all the way to the left is slow. What happens is you have this natural separation of these four distinct quadrants and each quadrant represents a different utility of your voice. And when you master this VO, the, you know, this vocal variety matrix, we sometimes call it the emotions matrix because each different quadrant communicates a different emotion. And it doesn’t matter the words that you say, right? So let me, let me, let me talk this out for you. Right? So for example, quadrant number one is somebody who talks like with high energy, which is often also the volume is very loud and very fast, right? And so you talk like this, and when you
RV (14:00):
Talk really loud and really fast, what you’re doing
RV (14:02):
Is you’re adding a
RV (14:03):
Tremendous amount of energy and emotion and enthusiasm. It doesn’t matter what the words you’re gonna do. Like what the words are that you’re saying, don’t even matter. You’re creating this physiological change in the audience by just talking loud and fast with high energy and high speed that suddenly create excitement and enthusiasm
RV (14:18):
And energy. Similarly,
RV (14:21):
If I talk loud
RV (14:24):
And slow,
RV (14:26):
This
RV (14:27):
Has high energy, loud volume,
RV (14:30):
But slow pace, regardless of the words that come
RV (14:36):
Out of my mouth,
RV (14:39):
You talk like this
RV (14:41):
To create the emotion of respect, you’re commanding authority. You’re, you’re, you’re demonstrating your control, your credibility, your power. And then if I talk low and slow, low energy, low volume, and low speed, it creates a completely different emotional experience, a different energy, one of authenticity, vulnerability, honesty, transparency, connection, and trust. And then if I keep my energy low and I keep my volume low, but then I pick up my pace. All of a sudden I start adding suspense because just by adding, just by talking faster again, regardless of the words that I say, this, isn’t a matter of the words that we’re saying, we’re just talking about delivery here and here. This is what, this is probably the, the most underutilized quadrant of all the four quadrants. But this is somebody who just talks very low, but very fast, but it’s a mental game, right?
RV (16:20):
It’s, it’s mental exercise that forces you to concentrate, to lean in, to create suspense, to be, to be sort of curious, to be preoccupied with like, what’s he gonna say? And like trying to keep up with everything that’s going on and, and notice that no one quadrant is better than any of the others, the magic here, first of all, is that it doesn’t matter what you say, it’s using the vocal variety matrix to determine how you say, because all of a sudden, no matter what I’m saying, this is loud and it’s exciting and it’s fast pace. And then all of a sudden I drop it way down.
RV (16:55):
And I share the lesson that I learned from that story. And what this means for your life personally, is that you have to take this advice and you must go out and execute this behavior, this action. And then I can move on into the next story and set up the next story with back, you know, backstory on the characters and, and saving some time in my presentation by just sort of speeding along, keeping you mentally engaged and forcing you to have to listen, sit on the edge of your seat because of this suspense. And because of the, the way your mind has to be preoccupied with what I’m saying in order to keep up with how fast that I’m talking, but I’m moving through a lot of kind of insignificant details and trivial things just so I can set up the next story, baby. Cuz here we come, it’s getting exciting again.
RV (17:50):
Bam, isn’t that amazing? This is one of the secrets that has shaped my career. I mean, it is one of the biggest things that we coach speakers on when we work with them in world class presentation craft, this is part of, you know, how I created a viral Ted talk and got inducted in the professional speaking hall of fame and you know, became a two time world champion of public speaking finalist, helping people with the art of speaking is one of the things that we do most frequently at brand builders group, both their message, but also the, the mechanics of their delivery. And that technique is called the vocal variety matrix. We’re sharing it here for you for free on this podcast episode. Usually those kind of things, you have to be a paying member to get access to, but I wanted to share that one just as a special bonus giveaway in honor of my friend, Vanessa van Edwards, because of how much content she shared and how much I love what she’s about and just applying one of the techniques that we teach very much to what she is talking about here in the science of people.
RV (18:55):
So I hope you enjoyed that interview. Hey, share this recap edition with someone who needs to hear it. Somebody who you know, is, is trying to build their personal brand and, and the interview as always tell your friends. And if you can leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to the podcast that helps us tremendously, you know, we’ll share another ad for that here in just a second, but we really, really need that help. And that’s why we’re here every single week, bringing you the best of the best that we can from our friends and community, and also drop dropping in with our tips and recaps and highlights. So thanks for being here. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand podcast.
Ep 292: How to Read People with Vanessa Van Edwards
RV (00:02):
Vanessa van Edwards. I met her, we shared the stage together at GLS global leadership summit. She was awesome. She got amazing feedback, you know, from close friends and clients, people that I love and trust. I started following her, checking out what she’s into and the more I get to meet her, the more I think she’s just awesome. She’s got great content. We’re gonna talk about, we’re gonna talk about that a little bit today. So she has a new book out called cues. So her first book was called captivate. The science of succeeding with people it’s translated into 16 languages. She’s had more than 50 million people watch her videos on YouTube and her Ted talk. She has a massive YouTube channel, hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Mm-Hmm
VVE (01:08):
Thank you so much for having me. It’s so great to be back with you and talk about everything. You know, I love a cue. You send good cues, worry. I love your
RV (01:16):
Cues. You do. Oh, what is okay. Tell us. Okay. So tell us cues, tell us about the, so this is the new book and yes. And everything you do is basically science backed communication skills ish, right?
VVE (01:29):
Oh man. That’s it. That’s it. So, yes. So I’m a recovering awkward person. So I learn social skills and communication with black and white formulas blueprints. I like to lay it out. And so this journey for this book, so a queue is a social signal, human sent to each other. I never thought I would write this book. I never thought I would write it. This was a, a secret science that I was embarrassed about. Like it started off for my own use. And I’ll tell you the moment it started. So 17 years ago, I was in my, the peak of my awkward stage and I was watching Lance Armstrong on Larry King live. And Larry King asked Lance Armstrong, have you ever DOD? Now spoiler alert. Lance was doping. But in this interview he told a flat out outline. He said, Nope, I’ve never DOD.
VVE (02:16):
And then right after he said it, he did a lip purse. He pressed his lips into a firm line. Hmm. He pressed his lips down together. And I remember watching that interview and thinking, what was that? Like? My spy sense knew something was off, but that specific cue, I didn’t even know it was called the queue back then says, what was that? So I began to look in the research. What is that body language gesture. It turns out that is a universal sign of withholding. When humans wanna hold something back or keep it together or keep it in liars often do it. They press their lips together. We press their lip together to say, don’t say it don’t get yourself in
RV (02:49):
Trouble. Interesting. Interesting. I
VVE (02:51):
Was like, what? And so I started to see this lip purse on people, in shame, people in people who were lying. And I wondered, okay, what if we could study humans? Like we study foreign languages where we break down behavior into specific cues, into our trust cues, our power cues, our danger zone cues, our trust, our, our charisma cues. And that’s exactly what this book was. I was spent the last 17 years cataloging all these queues, seeing if we could learn to speak them.
RV (03:25):
So
VVE (03:33):
Yes.
RV (03:33):
Are they all physical? I mean, are, is that like, like, will you, cause when you say study it like a language, you know, when I hear like science back communication, a lot of times it’s like your voice and your, you know, you’re you’re but are these like more like gestures conscious or subconscious gestures?
VVE (03:49):
That’s a great question. So in the beginning it started off as all gestures. I was like, okay, nonverbal, right? Facial expression, gestures, posture, movement, eyebrow raises. Right. But then I realize, and the research actually backs us up as well is there’s actually different ways that we sh broadcast our cues. There’s four of them. So the first one is non-verbal and that’s actually the biggest 60 to 90% of our communication is non-verbal. And when I say that, people are always shocked. But think about, if someone were to say that they were fine, I’m fine. And hold like a really angry face. You would know they were not fine. In other words, we give more weight it’s nonverbal. So that’s the biggest one. The second one is vocal. So how we deliver our birds words, our pace, our cadence, our volume, our pitch. So how we say our words is just important as what we say, the third one is verbal.
VVE (04:35):
So the actual words we we use, of course, that’s how we communicate lots of cues and the hidden signals in our words. And I have a whole chapter on sort of the secret things you can find out about someone’s charisma, simply based on the words they use in emails. And the last one, the one that’s forgotten is imagery. The colors we wear the props in our background, what we’re carrying in our profile photo even personality, even fonts have personality. The props that we use and jewelry wear. So imagery is the last small one.
RV (05:04):
Mm-Hmm
VVE (05:14):
Right now you’re you just got
RV (05:16):
Nervous, not fixing my hair. You
VVE (05:17):
Just got nervous. I saw
RV (05:19):
It cause you’re reading me
VVE (05:21):
Well a little bit. I can’t help it once. So this is a blessing and a curse. I will warn you. I should actually, I thought about having a warning at the beginning of the book and my publisher said no, which was that these cues, once you see them, you cannot unsee them.
RV (06:23):
A second. Don’t me break me down. Break me down sister.
VVE (06:26):
Okay. Let’s do it. So the reason why highly charismatic people are so charismatic is because they are purposefully sending off very positive cues of two traits. And this is exactly what the researchers found. Highly charismatic people have the perfect blend of warmth and competence that when we’re interacting
RV (06:44):
With competence with a
VVE (06:45):
P competence with a P not confidence, that’s, that’s, that’s a,
RV (06:49):
Yeah, that’s a big distinction. That’s an important distinction. It’s
VVE (06:51):
A really important thing. It’s not confidence. It’s competence. In other words, really highly charismatic. People are at the very same time, warm, open, collaborative, trustworthy, likable, but at the same time, they’re also competent, powerful, efficient, impressive, and productive. And the reason for that is because we like people who answer the two questions. Can I trust you? And can I rely on you? And so when I first met you, you were broadcasting. I think you might do it subconsciously. Cause since you haven’t read, I haven’t cues just came out. So I don’t think you read that one yet, is that you naturally are picking these cues that are both trustworthy and very competent, which makes me want to talk to you, engage with you, makes me wanna level up with you. And that’s because when we’re around care about people, we wanna catch that charisma. We like to, we feel like it rubs off on us too.
RV (07:43):
So what are some of the cues let’s talk about? Buying signals. Okay. Yeah. So if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a personal brand. You may be a CPA or financial advisor, real estate mortgage, or maybe you’re a coach and you’re, you know, trying to go like, is this person ready to buy? Like those are classic cues. And that’s, you know, the world we came from was, is sales. And that’s part of it probably where I developed this, these learning queues is I knocked on, I knocked on over 20,000 doors. Like I did five years of knocking on doors. Right? So you, you pick up some of these things. What, what can I look for that tells me that somebody’s ready to buy, they’re ready to book me for the interview. They’re ready to buy my, my keynote or buy my book or buy my service or what, what am I looking for?
VVE (08:31):
Okay. So before we even get to that, I’m gonna make a really big statement, which is starts with a corny metaphor, which is that very, very brilliant people have, are it’s impossible for them to share their ideas if they have bad cues. And the way that I think about this as a metaphor is that if your ideas are a car, cues are a gas and this is the problem with really smart entrepreneurs, really smart business people is they have great ideas, a great product, a great service, and they cannot get it to move. They literally cannot get the gas for that car. And that is because really smart people rely too much on their ideas. I think. Well, my idea is great. I don’t have to worry about how I talk about it, cuz the idea is so good that it will just speak for itself.
VVE (09:11):
That does not work. Our ideas have to have cues deal to communicate. And so the very first thing that we think about before you even look for buying signals, which we can talk about is you need to make sure your website, your LinkedIn profile, your social media profile pictures, all are signaling or broadcasting, warmth and competence, your digital first impression when someone Googles you or they look at your LinkedIn profile, they look at your website. I actually count on our website, how many warmth and competence queues we have. I’ll give you a really basic example of how this works. Warmth are things that create the warm and fuzzies for us. Their stories they’re relatable, they’re likable. Competence are data, research, numbers, proof recommendations. So Casper mattress is one case study that I like to use. Cause it’s very, very easy way to think about this.
VVE (10:00):
Cause the reason I think that Casper blew up, I mean literally just destroyed the mattress market is not only because they have a great mattress. There’s been a lot of great matches in the past. But remember that’s like having a really good idea, not knowing how to share it. If you look at Casper’s website, they have the perfect balance of warmth sales cues and competent sales queues. Their tagline is obsessively engineered at outrageous comfort. Those are two. So talking about words, right words can also be warm and competent, competent words make us wanna do things. They make us wanna achieve things. Warm words make us feel good. So obsessively engineered are two competent cues. We like things that have a lot of research done, balanced with outrageous comfort and that makes us feel good. So their tagline is the perfect balance of warm and competent.
VVE (10:50):
If you go down their website, you’ll see pictures of kids jumping on beds, warm proof of our Casper labs with guys in lab coats, competent quote from Vogue about how your bed is your new desk. Funny, warm research, five stars, right from consumer reports, competent, warm clouds and pictures of people sleeping, warm comp like right? So you literally all the way down the website, you see this perfect balance that is tingling something deep inside of us as humans of I can trust this brand and I can rely on this brand. Does that make sense? That kind of breakdown.
RV (11:31):
Totally. Yeah. I mean that, that, that’s fascinating, right? I mean, if you’re gonna hire somebody, I mean, even if you think about how am I gonna, if I’m gonna hire someone to do a job, it’s like, can they do the job and am I gonna like working with them? Like it’s pretty much, what else is there? Are they gonna do a great job? And am I, are they not gonna annoy me? And like, you know, are they gonna, are they gonna be reliable and dependable and, and yes. And show up? I think that’s, I think that’s really fascinating. So, you know, cause that would translate to hiring. And so, you know, the way I process what you just said in the, in, in the reverse of, of sales is to go, what can I do to make myself more attractive in what I’m selling is, is go. So if I’m talking, then that means I’m using customer testimonials and stories and our purpose and our why. And then the competence is like how many clients we’ve worked with and the results we’ve achieved. And the testimonials
VVE (12:25):
Got five star test, five star testimonials all the media outlets, right? Like, so even my bio, right? You read that at the very start that if you count the number of warm and competent queues, you’ll find a perfect balance. So like science to people, my company’s name is very competent. I did that on purpose because I know women tend to default to higher and warmth. That’s just a, a, a basic gender difference. And so I knew that I had to use, I have to use a little more data, a little more research, a little more science to sort of balance out that natural aspect of who I am. So science of people, then the media logos, the media mentions, those are competent helping people that’s warm. Right. So exactly. As you mentioned, you’re balancing that out on the queues side for your buyers. So there’s two sides of queues, decoding and encoding. We’ve been talking about encoding, the signals you’ve sent to others. What’s just as important though, is decoding making sure you’re spotting the right queues in your, in your folks. Here’s my favorite sales queue where I would say customer report queue. If we don’t even say sales, which is the lower lid flex, I know this is a really weird one, but the lower lid flexes, we harden our lower lids as if we’re like swinging to see something better. Just your lower lids. There you go.
RV (13:33):
Your lower eyelids,
VVE (13:34):
Lower eyelid. Yeah. So if you, so if you try to see something across the room, you’ll harden, your lower lids. This is a natural biological response. And what research has found, the reason all humans do this across genders and cultures and races is because when we’re trying to see more detail, our lids close to block out the light, to see more detail, they found that when people are listening and their brain just went from listening to doubting or listening to scrutinizing are lower. Lids will flex as if our body’s going. I don’t know about that. This is the single biggest missed queue in sales. If you were on video call or you were in person, you’re going through your pitch, you’re sharing your great idea and you see that lower lid, flex pause, stop and ask questions. Does that make sense? Does that all good? You know, let me explain something else here. How’s that sound to you? You are going to get right in that moment. Any doubt, the biggest problem for sales folks are entrepreneurs is they don’t realize why they didn’t get the job. You know, they, they think it went well, they leave. And they’re like, why didn’t I get the job? Why didn’t they say yes, it’s probably because you missed that little lower lid flex. It’s signaled literally a, a, a Twitch in their brain that went, I dunno about that.
RV (14:47):
So you’re saying that that is a sign of skepticism.
VVE (14:51):
Yes. It’s a sign of,
RV (14:52):
So like when you focus, it’s like, you know, it’s like a side eye,
VVE (14:57):
It’s a side eye. It’s like, so yes. And it’s also it’s right before skepticism. So the nice thing about it is it just means intensity intense focus. So if you stop and you address it, you can actually prevent a future. No. Or skepticism from coming. We in our lab, we analyzed, you know, the show
RV (15:14):
Shows, I love that. That’s really, that’s really huge and important.
VVE (15:18):
It’s so powerful. It’s so powerful. And you see it now, you’ll see it all the time. You can see it on video too, which is amazing.
RV (15:22):
It’s like I critical, but I’m not yet skeptical. But if I catch you, if I catch you while you’re critical, I can win you back.
VVE (15:31):
There you go. Exactly. Right. So we saw this on we an I love the show shark tank, which is a show obviously where me
RV (15:37):
Too.
VVE (15:38):
I love, love that show. So we analyzed 495 shark tank pitches. It was thousands and thousands of hours of data looking for patterns. Was there things that successful entrepreneurs did in the tank that were more likely to get them a deal? And we noticed, and again, we’re, we’re looking at the show and you see a lot of cut footage, but on shark tank, the successful entrepreneurs would spot a shark, hardening their lower lids and then address their concern. Right? Kevin, you know, I see that you’re skeptical. Let me bring up some more data for you or Laurie. You know, I know this is a surprise for you, but here’s what we’re planning. We really wanna work with you. They were a dynamic on their feet, the worst pictures. And I, I talk about this a lot in the book. I break down Jamie Simoff shark tank pitch who pitched ring in the tank.
VVE (16:23):
So ring is a billion dollar company. He pitched ring in the shark tank and it completely bombed. This is what’s critically important is Jamie. Simoff had a billion dollar idea, right? Amazon acquired it for a billion dollars. Richard Branson invested Shaq invested, but he went on shark tank with this brilliant billion dollar idea. And it totally bombed that is because our ideas cannot stand by themselves. He delivered it so poorly without competence and warmth cues that everyone was out. And a couple years later, he came back into this shark tank as a, as an investor. So what happened in that pitch is he actually gave away all of his competence and warmth. He wanted his idea to speak for itself. But even though this company had amazing numbers and amazing growth, they could not buy into the idea because his cues were so bad.
RV (17:10):
What are some of the other common cues let’s go back to end coding. So what are the other common mistakes that people send? Like you might be on a first date, you might be trying to make a sales call. You might be trying to, you know, get a job.
VVE (17:24):
Let’s talk about what Jamie’s seminar should have done. Right? So like this is his pitch is so demonstrative. So end coding on the end coding side, the very first few words out of your mouth. So that could be hello. That could be, my name is Rory. That could be so good to see you. Okay. So the first 10 words out of your mouth are incredibly important for your vocal. First impression we are listening for confidence cues. I do say confidence with an F confidence. That is because when we hear someone who’s anxious, we don’t wanna catch it. And so we’re in the first 10 seconds, we’re listening for any vocal anxiety. The biggest way we give away our vocal anxiety is we use the question inflection on a statement. So Jamie’s seminar. He way he did this is he entered the tank where he knocked on the door.
VVE (18:08):
So he closed the doors to the tank and he knocked on the door cause he was trying to show like a doorbell. So he knocked on the door and his first line was this it’s Jamie here to pitch. So the question inflections, we go up at the end of our sentence, as if we’re asking a question, the problem is, is research has found this when people hear the question, inflection mistakenly used on a statement. My name is Vanessa. It’s Jamie here to pitch our brain goes from listening to scrutinizing. In other words, we know, wait a minute, something wasn’t right about that. So the most important thing you can do is in the first 10 seconds in person on the phone in video is go down at the end of your sentence. So it’s so good to see you. My name is Vanessa, and I’m really excited to pitch you this idea today, that’s downward, right? I’m keeping my words down. It actually signals high confidence. If I said, my name is Vanessa, I’m here to pitch. So happy to be here today. No, like you would know, I don’t want you don’t your brain doesn’t know why, but you know, you don’t like it.
RV (19:10):
Mm-Hmm
RV (20:02):
It’s like, they’re an expert on something and they get lost in, oh, it has to be beautiful and perfect. Where do I get a graphic designer and a video editor? And it’s like, you’re such a great example of like deliver the goods, add values to people’s lives, do it consistently a few basic things. So I love that. How do you do book launches? I’m curious about this because your books have done really, really well. And, and we do a lot of big launches, right. And we’ve done for our own books, big launches, but the thing that really makes the career, I mean, it helps to hit the New York times for sure. But what really makes the career is when you can have that book, you know, or books that sell 500 units every week, a thousand units. I mean, if, if you’re, if you’re, you know, if you’re lucky, you’ll, you’ll write, you know, John Gordon’s energy bus or Patrick, you know, Len’s five dysfunctions of a team and he’ll sell 2000 units, 5,000 units every week. But you know, like Ryan holiday is another person who’s done a great job of this. Like he, he does good launches, but it’s like, it’s not really about the launch. He sells 800 book, 800 units every week of all of his titles and you know, there’s spikes of course. And you’re you do that? And I love that. How do you do that?
VVE (21:19):
Yes. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you for, by way, for the kind words. So captivate came out in 2017. We had a nice, really big launch. I think we remember four on the wall street journalist. And since then, even, you know, five, six years later, we sell about 300, 600 copies a week and that, you know, amazing doesn’t include our spikes, right? Like sometimes we have spikes from events. Queues is doing extremely well, even better than captivate. We’re seven weeks out from that, but it’s still selling extremely well, probably a thousand or more a week. So the way that I like think about this is very weird. I have a very weird approach to this, which is YouTube is a search engine. And what I mean by that is people put YouTube in a social media category. It is not social media. It is a search engine, meaning people are not only going into YouTube and searching their needs.
VVE (22:07):
Google is also serving up YouTube as an answer to their needs. So for this reason, we think about, okay, who is our ideal person? Our ideal person is an incredibly brilliant professional entrepreneur, entrepreneur, both male and female. We literally have almost exactly split usually around 30 to 55. Okay. So I know my person, they’re really smart. They’re trying to level up their career. They’ve often been held back by some communication or soft skill. Okay. I know that person is what we do is we do specific keyword research and a reps. That’s the service we use. It’s like a software you can use. I think there’s a couple different ones out there.
RV (22:41):
Yeah. MOS or yeah, there’s a whole bunch of them. Yeah. Suggests et cetera. But AHS is, I think, I think that’s what our team uses too.
VVE (22:49):
A has a secret tab. It’s not so secret. Cause I’m about to tell you about it, which is most people use a for Google, we use a for YouTube. So I will go in the YouTube tab and I will search at first, first I think about what are the 50 to 20 keywords or search phrases. I think people are gonna use to get to a book. So for cues, I, you know, we, I started writing cues over two years ago. The very first thing I did is, okay, cues are about reading people, breaking down behavior, communication, charisma, right. I made a whole list of all those terms short and long. And then I had my writing team begin to pump out articles and especially video scripts for me on those specific keywords so that I can already come up for what I know my people are searching for and then serve them really helpful content, like really helpful, like free content, but then also the book. So before queues even came out, we were ranking one, two or three in those big spots for our YouTube videos, the articles are actually less important than the YouTube videos so that when someone is in YouTube and they search charismatic conversation or how to make small talk,
RV (23:57):
How, yeah. How to be more charismatic, like
VVE (23:59):
Ex exactly our videos come up and on the back end of the video, I’m selling the book and the bottom of the video, I’m selling the book. And so I think that every single entrepreneur, it doesn’t matter what you do. You should have a YouTube presence. And by the way, I don’t work for YouTube. I don’t teach YouTube courses. I don’t teach you how to sell on YouTube. So I had no reason to recommend this because I, I actually, it hurts me the more people who come on YouTube, but I feel so passionate about it because whatever your product service book is, if YouTube is a search engine, you have to have a presence on there for your top 50 keywords, because that’s a way that you’re gonna be able to drive people to your product or service. That is exactly how we sell books.
RV (24:38):
I mean, that is so brilliant. And, and, and, and simple, like simple because cuz I, we understand search engine optimization. We understand, you know, even like YouTube optimization, but just the idea of putting your book on there. And you said you put your book at the, at the back of the video and on the bottom. I, and I, I think you’re, you’re saying literally there’s like a, a, an ads, a buy button. Yeah,
VVE (25:04):
We literally, so at the, so first of all, just to get really into tactics is typically our videos will our videos around 10, 20 minutes an average, but you should have, you should mention your book organically or your service organically, ideally in the first third or half of the video. So while I’m teaching, while I’m getting highly valuable, really engaging tips, I never want someone to click on a video and feel like it was a waste of their time. Some point in the first third or half of the video, I will say, and all this research comes from queues. Be sure to check out on an Amazon or an audible. And then I keep delivering, keep delivering in the description of the video. I have not only a link to the Amazon on the audible, but I also, we use a plugin in YouTube. It has a little by mech shelf.
VVE (25:44):
So on our little by mech shelf below every video, actually, we don’t do it for every video. We only do it for videos that directly sell our books. I have cap date. I have queues. I have people school, our big master course. So it’s right below the video. And at the very end, I put a little promo to our book where I’m like, Hey, if you like these tips, check out cues, check out captivate, give this video a light, give a subscribe. I’ll be putting out free content every Wednesday. So that way there’s a couple of mentions. And what I found is I either get a subscribe because I’m delivering good content or they literally go go by the book.
RV (26:16):
You said there’s a, you’re using a plugin in the description.
VVE (26:20):
I am. Yes. It’s a special plugin. It’s QA. Y a I dunno how to say ITA, Chaya, Kaya. I don’t know QA. Y a but it’s a, it’s a plugin that we literally enabled for YouTube that adds a merch shelf, which is like another, that a lot of people, a merch shelf. Yeah. You can sell anything on there. So like if we have a course launch, like we have a lie detection course I can SW swap that into my me shelf on my LA detection related videos.
RV (26:47):
Oh. So basically like you, you can just make a change and it’ll roll through all those videos at once.
VVE (26:52):
It’s manual it’s manual
RV (26:54):
VVE (27:44):
And it’s going after your specific key terms, right. It’s not book promo for my new book. It’s not what it’s called. It’s called. How do you more charismatic how to read people, how to have conversations with anyone like it’s, it’s specific keywords. And so thinking really carefully about that is extremely helpful. And I think you, you don’t have to have videos forever. Like that’s optimistic it also people make cuz they’re like, oh, once I start a YouTube channel, I can never stop. I’m like, no, it’s a search engine. Create 20 incredible videos. My incredible, I don’t mean fancy. I mean just really high value and
RV (28:15):
Your like useful, those are useful.
VVE (28:17):
Those are your 20, like 98% of our ad revenue on YouTube. So we also run ads on YouTube. 98% of our ad revenue on YouTube is from my back catalog. So it doesn’t have to be that you’re posting new videos every week. No, most of my money and our views are from videos I posted eight years ago.
RV (28:35):
Mm-Hmm
VVE (28:43):
Yeah. I enable YouTube ads behind the video. Yeah.
RV (28:47):
Do, do you, do you run paid ads on YouTube?
VVE (28:52):
Like I do not run. Nope. I don’t. You
RV (28:54):
Don’t run ads for your stuff. That’s a completely organic strategy, a complete, like a search strategy.
VVE (29:01):
We, we, we, all of our traffic, 100% is organic and we have millions of visitors every month. Except for during launch. So during launches, we do do pay ads,
RV (29:11):
But y’all like Vanessa is the, the, the, the perfect example of how we just talk about it. If you just add value and you just add value. One of our philosophies at brand builders group is we say, save the best for first. We, we tell people save the best for first. Like just put it out there. Eight years later you’re still ringing and you’re still ringing the, the register.
VVE (29:35):
Yes. And, and maybe this is a good place to sort of end on, which is our same. This is what I teach. All my writers is we are aggressively helpful, relentlessly helpful. Like if I feel that something in a video is boring or not helpful, cut it. I don’t care about the fancy graphics. I have one camera in a room. It’s like a closet I’m in here right now. And that’s it. But it is not relentlessly aggressively helpful. Cut it. That is more important than any fancy graphic, any video equipment that you can get. And so that’s, I think what you have to think about is like, how can you just be aggressively helpful?
RV (30:11):
Love it. So brilliant. So the book is called cues. That’s the new book. Where would you want, where do you wanna point people to go, Vanessa, if they wanna, obviously we talked about your YouTube channel, where would you direct people?
VVE (30:23):
Yes. So it’s on Amazon. It’s available. Wherever books are sold. I read the audible book. If you like my my unique vocal power, I do some fun. There’s a whole vocal section. So I do some really fun ones in there. And also I just wanna thank worry so much, you know, you, I don’t know if your, your listeners know that you are relentlessly helpful. Like literally I have to tell you to stop helping me. You’re such a giver. You’re so kind you always give, give, give, and there’s no feeling of like, oh, I, I need it in return. It’s literally just your relentlessly helpful. And so for people who are listening, like worry is the real deal. And I’m so grateful.
RV (30:56):
Oh, well, thank you so much, buddy. I mean, it’s it’s what works. I mean you know, I was, I, I was mentored by Zig Zeigler and he has that famous quote. If you help enough other people get what they want, you get what you want. It’s like, you can go all in on it. Like you can just, just test it. Like just, it feels
VVE (31:12):
So good.
RV (31:13):
It feels so good. Like you don’t have to, you don’t have to sell or do anything. Like all you’re doing is helping people all day long and then just like, it just, it just comes back. And I love seeing that as a content marketing strategy. I need to, I may, maybe I need to do that. Maybe I’m being too stingy with my YouTube videos. Maybe that’s why my way, maybe that’s why my channel’s not growing. Like I’m not being, I’m not being helpful enough there. So anyways, Vanessa van Edwards, brilliant, sharp, intelligent, useful, helpful. We are so excited and, and to, to know you and to promote you and to be associated. So keep kicking butt girl, you we believe in you. Thanks for being here. Woo.
VVE (31:47):
Thanks you so much for having me.