Author: AJ Vaden

Ep 589: Transforming Wealth Management for Entrepreneurs | Jim & Mimi Dew

[00:00:00] AJ: Hey everybody, welcome to the influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here, [00:00:05] and I’m so, so excited to have this conversation with [00:00:10] Jim and Mimi do today, hun, because I love getting to learn from people that I [00:00:15] already follow, admire, and respect.

[00:00:17] But then super selfishly, I know [00:00:20] that every single thing they’re gonna share today would cost thousands and thousands of dollars to [00:00:25] pay for, and I get. The privilege of learning today along with everyone who’s [00:00:30] listening. And so, as you guys know, I kind of tell you who the episode is for. And you know, I think [00:00:35] it’s important that if I think this is an episode that everyone’s gonna benefit from, I’ll tell you upfront so that you can [00:00:40] set aside the next hour and not wonder is this for me?

[00:00:42] So let me go ahead and tell you [00:00:45] why I think this is one of those universal conversations that’s applicable to [00:00:50] everyone who’s listening. No matter what stage of business or personal branding that you’re in, [00:00:55] number one, we’re gonna be talking about wealth strategies. And uh, I think this is part [00:01:00] how do you make money, right?

[00:01:01] But there’s another part of it, which is how do you keep the money you make, right? And that’s the [00:01:05] wealth strategy part. And so if you’d like to talk about how do you keep more of all that [00:01:10] money you’re working hard for, then this is a conversation for two. Number two, we’re gonna talk about [00:01:15] understanding the importance of structured.

[00:01:17] Wealth management. And I think that is [00:01:20] also important ’cause there’s a concept of money, but then there’s all the tools, tactics, uh, tactics, [00:01:25] practices and best use cases of how do you actually create structure [00:01:30] to handling your finances. Well, everyone can learn something with that. Doesn’t matter if you [00:01:35] have.

[00:01:35] $10 in your banking account or 10 million. There are things to be learned about that. [00:01:40] And then what I’m personally most excited for is to learn all the blind [00:01:45] spots, the mistakes, the what to avoid, all the things that you [00:01:50] just don’t get to learn in every day. Business, marketplace, practice, these are the [00:01:55] things that you learn from professionals who’ve been behind the scenes, helped build [00:02:00] their own businesses, have worked behind the scenes with other very successful eight figure.

[00:02:04] [00:02:05] Probably even nine figure business owners that you just don’t get the opportunity to have these [00:02:10] conversations very often, and that’s what I’m most excited for. So Jim [00:02:15] and Mimi, I’m so excited to spend the next roughly 50 minutes with you. But I [00:02:20] also want to kind of give a joint bio of both of you so you guys have a [00:02:25] professional bio for everyone.

[00:02:26] So this dynamic duo is, uh, the dual founders [00:02:30] of DU Wealth Management, uh, specializing in providing fractional family office [00:02:35] services for seven and eight figure entrepreneurs. And with a combined experience of over 30 [00:02:40] years doing this, they have helped countless business business owners protect, [00:02:45] grow, and pro, uh, protect, transfer.

[00:02:47] Which I think is a big part of [00:02:50] conversation as well, their wealth strategically. So Jim and Mimi, welcome to the show. [00:02:55]

[00:02:55] Jim: Thanks,

[00:02:56] Mimi: aj. Thank you so much for having us here. Great to be, yeah, super excited to be [00:03:00] here. Jen and I will try not to talk over each other.

[00:03:04] Jim: Yeah. Which is gonna be [00:03:05] hard because we’ve been married for 32 years, so that’s,

[00:03:07] AJ: that’s exactly what Rory and I do like when we’re [00:03:10] on podcast interviews and so now like we have like all these like.

[00:03:13] Just best practices of, we [00:03:15] have like an eye and he knows if I’m giving him the eye, like I’m answering this first, [00:03:20] this eye movements. Uh, that’s what we do. But I’m so excited to have this [00:03:25] conversation and where I’d love to start is just helping [00:03:30] people. I think even understand what wealth management is.

[00:03:33] That’s a term that’s really broadly [00:03:35] thrown around in different business communities. You hear people talk about wealth [00:03:40] management, but what is that? What do you actually do to manage your [00:03:45] wealth? Mm-hmm.

[00:03:48] Jim: You wanna take that? Me? [00:03:50]

[00:03:50] Mimi: I’m gonna let Jim take it. Yeah. I, I’m giving him the, i [00:03:55]

[00:03:55] Jim: You always gotta ask your wife first for permission.

[00:03:57] You know, that’s a smart thing to do. You know, wealth management [00:04:00] comes in all kinds of. Flavors and sizes and everything else. But I think the key is, let’s boil it [00:04:05] down to its essence. And the essence is really the three pillars of wealth management, which is [00:04:10] protecting what you’re making and you’re building, managing what [00:04:15] you’re creating and building, and then also growing what you’re [00:04:20] creating, the money you’re making and everything else.

[00:04:22] And I think that people overcomplicate it [00:04:25] because what you really want to do is think about what do you want to achieve with your money? What are your [00:04:30] goals? What matters to you? And if you think about it, there’s a lot of things you can do with your money, but there’s only [00:04:35] three things that will make you happy and the three ways you can be happy spending your money is spending [00:04:40] money on experiences with people you love spending money to get your time [00:04:45] back.

[00:04:46] Giving your money away. Those are really the only three ways you can get [00:04:50] happier with your money. So thinking about in that, in that context of [00:04:55] what is it that you wanna achieve that would create memories with people you love? What is it that you would want to [00:05:00] achieve that allows you to buy back your time?

[00:05:03] And then what would you like to [00:05:05] achieve that would allow you to give back? And if you do those three things, you’ll be much happier. Mm-hmm. So those would be the [00:05:10] essence of what it means to manage your wealth.

[00:05:14] AJ: I love [00:05:15] that. You know, um, I just finished reading this book called [00:05:20] Die With Zero.

[00:05:21] Yeah.

[00:05:21] AJ: Oh yeah.

[00:05:22] And it’s a, it’s a [00:05:25] fascinating, interesting book and there’s lots of things I agree with, a few things I didn’t agree with. Um, [00:05:30] but I think there’s something you can learn from anything. And one of the biggest takeaways is, you know, how are [00:05:35] you spending your money to have better life experiences? Right, right.

[00:05:39] And I [00:05:40] love what you said at the very end of the book, which is at the end of, end of your life, right. [00:05:45] No one’s going to put on their tombstone had 10 million in net worth. And it was like [00:05:50] that really simple but common reminder. It’s like memories are what you [00:05:55] have at the very end, right? It’s like, what did you do with the people you loved?

[00:05:59] What did you do with the [00:06:00] money you had to help people around you? And that was like a very profound kind of [00:06:05] ending for me of like, yeah, like am I just. Hoarding money away to for a [00:06:10] rainy day, or am I doing it to grow the joy and experiences [00:06:15] of me others and serving the causes that I so deeply believe in?

[00:06:18] So I love that [00:06:20] you brought that up right here in the front, because I don’t think a lot of people talk about that.

[00:06:24] Mimi: [00:06:25] Yeah, we think about that all the time. The entrepreneurs, business owners, who we work with, I mean, all [00:06:30] of them give back the legacies that they’ve created. And so that’s why we love what we [00:06:35] do and the people who we serve.

[00:06:36] It’s, it’s just again, about giving back [00:06:40] experiences, creating memories, like you said.

[00:06:42] AJ: Yeah. I think that’s at the end of the day, [00:06:45] right? It’s like, what are we making all this money for? Right? Like what is it all for? So I, [00:06:50] I’d love to kind of. Start with that because a lot of the people that you work with have made a lot of money, [00:06:55] right?

[00:06:55] Mm-hmm. And I would love to hear from you guys, like what [00:07:00] are some of the most simplistic but. Helpful strategies [00:07:05] that you have learned from very, very, very successful and wealthy people, including your own [00:07:10] practices that anyone can employ to help them have the same wealth strategies [00:07:15] as you know, today’s billionaires.

[00:07:17] Jim: Yeah, probably the, the first thing I would say is [00:07:20] the most important thing, or one of the most important things is having the [00:07:25] right team. Because every entrepreneur over their lifetime, and this is true of whether you’re an entrepreneur or not, [00:07:30] over your lifetime, you’re gonna pick up an accountant, an insurance agent, a [00:07:35] banker, maybe an investment advisor.

[00:07:37] You know, an attorney maybe to do your will [00:07:40] or your trust or maybe an attorney for your corporate world, you’re gonna get these different professionals. And if [00:07:45] you picture those like spokes on the wheel, on a wheel like I have behind me, usually that’s what we call a [00:07:50] financial flat tire. ’cause they’re usually not all A players, they’re not talking to each other.

[00:07:54] And the [00:07:55] worst part is you are in the middle of that wheel trying to manage that team when you don’t have the time and you don’t speak the [00:08:00] languages of tax, legal insurance and investments. So the first thing I think is [00:08:05] to evaluate your team. To try to uplevel that team so you have a [00:08:10] players that are pulling for you and serving you and not serving themselves in silos, [00:08:15] which is what we see a lot.

[00:08:16] AJ: I have a question about that because I think it’s very hard [00:08:20] to find a good team, the right team, maybe good’s not the right word, [00:08:25] that the right team for you. Right. And I think one of the things that we have discovered is it’s [00:08:30] exceptionally difficult to find. Really amazing vendors, [00:08:35] partners, teams. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:37] So how do you, how do you do that? Like, how do you know that you have a [00:08:40] good one? How do you know that what you’re entrusting someone with, which in this case is a lot of [00:08:45] our livelihoods, right? Our finances. Our finances of going, right. It’s not [00:08:50] only that, hey, they’re not gonna do anything corrupt or, you know, experience malpractice, [00:08:55] but it’s like they’re making good decisions and I, I can trust them.

[00:08:58] Like, how do you discern [00:09:00] that?

[00:09:02] Mimi: Yeah. One of the things is to look for [00:09:05] specialists. There’s a lot of generalists out there and, um, who, who say that [00:09:10] they serve entrepreneurs and some retirees, et cetera, and so [00:09:15] entrepreneurs and business owners. Needs specific strategies, specific tax planning, [00:09:20] specific wealth strategies that we’re talk, gonna be talking about today.

[00:09:23] And if they don’t [00:09:25] specialize, it’s just kind of like, I think it’s their correct information. [00:09:30] It’s like if you were to see. You needed a surgeon in a certain area, let’s say [00:09:35] a heart surgeon. Um, you wouldn’t go to a surgeon who, an orthopedic [00:09:40] surgeon who just specializes in limbs, hip surgeries, knee surgeries and [00:09:45] things like that.

[00:09:45] So specialty is one of the things to definitely look at.

[00:09:49] Jim: Yeah, I, I [00:09:50] got two ways I’d answer that aj. One is what everyone on the call could do to [00:09:55] evaluate their team, and then the up level, which is finding someone who can do that for you, who has [00:10:00] expertise. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:01] Right?

[00:10:01] Jim: Because always if you find an expert that can do it for you, that can be the right answer.

[00:10:04] So [00:10:05] if you’re evaluating your team, which you should, I would say everyone on the call, write down your [00:10:10] professionals on a wheel, your account, and your attorney, your insurance agent, and then rank them one to 10. [00:10:15] And then once you rank them one to 10, one being should have fired ’em yesterday, 10 being [00:10:20] they’re the most amazing advisor you’ve ever met, then ask yourself, why am I rating [00:10:25] that person a seven or a nine or a two?

[00:10:28] Right? Because if [00:10:30] you don’t really have a good reason why you’re rating your professional ’cause I often hear entrepreneurs will say, well, [00:10:35] I like my so and so. Why? Because they return my calls and they’re nice to me. Okay, well there’s [00:10:40] more to that to decide if someone’s a really qualified professional.

[00:10:42] So there are five areas that I would say you should look [00:10:45] at. The first area is education and credentials. Second area would be looking at [00:10:50] their regulatory history, which you can look up on the websites, whether it’s your state board of [00:10:55] Accountancy, your state board of insurance, your uh, bar association.

[00:10:59] The third thing would [00:11:00] be their specialty, as Mimi said, what’s their specialty and how does that apply to you? Also, their [00:11:05] experience. How long have they been doing this? Hmm. And then the fifth thing is their personality and their follow through. [00:11:10] If you’re trying to get a first meeting to evaluate a professional, and they can’t even.

[00:11:13] Get the meeting set [00:11:15] up or they don’t follow up and let you know when the meeting is, then you can’t trust them to do a good job when you’re [00:11:20] actually working with them. So those are five areas you can look at. Now, the up level is when you get to a [00:11:25] place where you can hire a firm that actually builds your team out for you.

[00:11:28] And that’s really what we [00:11:30] talk about in the fractional family office, where you have a firm that knows how to build those. I [00:11:35] know we’ve been doing this for 26 years, our company that we started together in 1999, and we’ve [00:11:40] got over 500. Of the top professionals in every area of tax, legal, [00:11:45] insurance and investment.

[00:11:45] So when we have a new client, we evaluate their team and then we go, Hey, your accountant’s no [00:11:50] good. Let’s bring in an A player that we’ve worked with before. Your insurance agent is not the best. [00:11:55] Let’s get an A player that we’ve worked with before. So that would be the next level, when you can actually afford to [00:12:00] hire someone to build the team and run the team, and to manage the team for you.

[00:12:04] AJ: Yeah, I [00:12:05] think that’s really good. And I, I love, you know, the specialist component of it. ’cause I think a lot of people are [00:12:10] like, I just want a one stop shop. Right. And that means you’re getting just [00:12:15] surface level experience over everything and deep experience and nothing. I think that [00:12:20] happens a ton. ’cause people don’t have the time, right?

[00:12:22] And they’re just like, I just need one person who can do all the things. [00:12:25] And that at some point is no longer serving you very well. And then I love the other part of, hey, [00:12:30] evaluate who you’ve got. And I love those five criteria. I think those are really healthy. And then [00:12:35] knowing when have you outgrown them.

[00:12:38] And I think that’s the up level part. At [00:12:40] some point you continue to be successful in what you’re doing. You could [00:12:45] likely outgrow the team you have. So it’s making sure that you’re evaluating those in the plan. I [00:12:50] think those, those are really good, healthy parameters to start this conversation. So you [00:12:55] mentioned this Mimi with like, what are some of those wealth strategies and tax strategies we’re gonna talk about?[00:13:00]

[00:13:00] Let’s talk about those. What, what are the wealth strategies that [00:13:05] we, as entrepreneurs need to be aware of? And then I’d love to talk about taxes ’cause I find [00:13:10] taxes fascinating and frustrating at the same time. But, we’ll, we’ll start with the [00:13:15] happier of these two topics. The, the wealth strategies. What, what do we need to know as entrepreneurs?

[00:13:19] [00:13:20] What do we don’t know that we should know? Maybe start there.

[00:13:24] Mimi: Yeah, I know one [00:13:25] of the things that, especially in our industry, entrepreneurs are listening to friends, [00:13:30] listening to, uh, professionals who really don’t understand how to give [00:13:35] professional advice specifically to the business owners. And, um, so.[00:13:40]

[00:13:40] The main thing is, number one, to look and find a professional who specializes [00:13:45] in working with, uh, business owners, and then also looking for somebody who [00:13:50] isn’t there to sell products. Uh, there’s so many who kind of a Backended [00:13:55] way come in and say, you need this type of a product because it’s going to [00:14:00] save you this, or it’s gonna help you with text.

[00:14:02] Planning and really what’s behind [00:14:05] the scenes is commissions. It’s about, so if a professional comes in to sell you a [00:14:10] product, because there’s a big commission at the end. So that’s something definitely to, to look out [00:14:15] for since that is often sold as a wealth strategy or a [00:14:20] wealth plan. Um. And some other things.

[00:14:23] So anyways, Jim, what are, [00:14:25] what are some of the other things that

[00:14:26] Jim: I, I like to think there’s sexy things about wealth planning [00:14:30] and then there’s, and there’s things that are not sexy at all and entrepreneurs love the sexy stuff.

[00:14:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:34] Jim: So, [00:14:35] I, I wanna scratch that itch, but let’s start with the non-sexy stuff, right?

[00:14:37] So when I talk about the main pillars of [00:14:40] wealth management. Protect, manage and grow. Protect means things like insurance. Everybody hates [00:14:45] insurance.

[00:14:45] Yeah. It’s

[00:14:45] Jim: like a necessary evil, but overpaying for insurance or not having the right [00:14:50] coverages mm-hmm. Could put you at risk if you ever get sued, if there’s a problem with your business.

[00:14:54] So you [00:14:55] know that protect is really important. Also, entity structure.

[00:14:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:59] Jim: I’ve seen entrepreneurs, [00:15:00] they get. All these complicated entities way before their time, that becomes difficult to [00:15:05] manage. They don’t manage ’em correctly. They’re not keeping them compliant, which risk blowing up. Even if [00:15:10] you get sued, if you’re using it to protect you or.

[00:15:13] Too simplified. They don’t have enough [00:15:15] stuff because they’ve grown enough wealth where they need more on the entity structure. So I could spend a lot of [00:15:20] time on that, but those are not sexy, but those are critically important. Then on the more fun stuff, like grow, [00:15:25] entrepreneurs love to grow their money, and one of the problems entrepreneurs have is [00:15:30] that, and what we fall into this category.

[00:15:31] Mm-hmm. You start with something that has a possibility. Right? [00:15:35] We started our company 26 years ago. No one would’ve believed we could have made it. Because most businesses [00:15:40] fail. So we’re believing in possibilities. There’s a possibility we could make this work. And [00:15:45] then guess what? We did it. We made it work.

[00:15:47] We created this really successful company, sold to our [00:15:50] employees in 2022, still running the Business Inc. 5,004 years in a row. All [00:15:55] these things, right? So we’re like, we believe that we can make a possibility come [00:16:00] true. Then we have all this money we’re making and now we have to invest it. And guess [00:16:05] what?

[00:16:05] The tendency of the entrepreneur is to invest in things that have possibilities. [00:16:10] Hey, my friend’s doing the startup. I believe in possibilities ’cause I made this possibility come true [00:16:15] and I want something that’s gonna make incredible returns like my business. So they end up putting [00:16:20] their money in these deals where they lose their money and, and I don’t know if you’ve ever done this, [00:16:25] aj, but here’s the recipe, right?

[00:16:26] Hey, here’s someone I like, they brought me a deal. It’s very exclusive. [00:16:30] Most people don’t have access to it. Uhhuh, I gotta get my money to ’em in two weeks ’cause it’s oversubscribed. And [00:16:35] I look at the idea and I love the idea this can’t miss, and then I look at the financials, [00:16:40] it’s all up and to the right.

[00:16:41] I’m gonna make so much money off this deal. I throw money in and then guess what? I [00:16:45] lose all my money. That’s what entrepreneurs all the time do all the time. ’cause they wanna invest [00:16:50] in possibilities. They’re gonna make ’em these huge returns like their business. But what you need to [00:16:55] do is realize you are the very unusual that [00:17:00] made it work and you succeeded now to keep your money because.

[00:17:04] Creating a [00:17:05] business to make a lot of money is one thing, but keeping your money as the other. So to keep your money, you have [00:17:10] to invest in reliable, predictable investments, and those aren’t sexy [00:17:15] and no one likes to do ’em. You’re like, I don’t wanna invest in the reliable, predictable, the [00:17:20] real estate and the stocks and the private equity and the venture capital, and [00:17:25] maybe not too much venture capital, right?

[00:17:27] I wanna invest in Bitcoin and my friend’s startup company. [00:17:30] So that’s a recipe for disaster. So when you start making money, you have to have, first of all, a [00:17:35] game plan or a strategy. ’cause too many entrepreneurs are living by tactics. Mm-hmm. So in the [00:17:40] art of war, there’s a, there’s a quote I love it’s tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.[00:17:45]

[00:17:45] Mm-hmm. So before you start investing, you should have your overall investment strategy. That means how much [00:17:50] of my money is gonna go into real estate? How much is gonna go into stocks? How much is gonna go into private equity [00:17:55] or private debt? How much is going to going to go into crypto and then stick with my plan.

[00:17:59] And within real [00:18:00] estate, I don’t want it all in multifamily. Look what happened the last couple years. So I’m gonna wanna spread it [00:18:05] around in different parts of real estate, because you get rich by being concentrated in a business, [00:18:10] but you stay rich by being diversified outside of that business. Mm-hmm. So you need a strategy [00:18:15] that you can stick to, otherwise you’re gonna run around like you’re in Vegas.

[00:18:18] Throwing money at cool [00:18:20] sounding stuff and 10 years later you’re gonna say to me, like a, a lot of entrepreneurs say to Mimi and I, [00:18:25] I made so much money in the last 10 years. Where did it all go? Mm. And that [00:18:30] happens unfortunately too often. I.

[00:18:32] Mimi: Yeah. And AJ for us being in the industry [00:18:35] 26 years with our business, we made mistakes as well before having our team, [00:18:40] having our own fractional family office.

[00:18:42] And, uh, same thing without having a strategy [00:18:45] and specific investment allocation. So we, we ourselves have, [00:18:50] it’s, it’s, it’s easy to fall, so you need the right team and, and the right strategy in place [00:18:55] that’s best for you.

[00:18:56] Jim: Yeah. And just to, to build off of that. I, I urged [00:19:00] Mimi to, to make this investment that we made in 2005.

[00:19:02] Now, if you do the math, that was 20 years ago [00:19:05] and it was a million dollars, and I was 100% sure. Remember, I was a very smart investor at the [00:19:10] time. I thought I knew more than I knew, which is an overconfidence problem entrepreneurs have. So I’m like, [00:19:15] this is a. A hundred percent. This is gonna make it, we’re gonna make millions off of this deal.[00:19:20]

[00:19:20] And I could tell you why I thought that. And there’s a lot of good reasons why I thought that. But guess what? It didn’t turn out [00:19:25] and we lost a million dollars. Now, a million dollars is a lot of money today. Even in our [00:19:30] situation, a million dollars matters today. But 20 years ago, it was a huge impact on us in [00:19:35] our lives.

[00:19:35] But the way I think about it, ’cause I was, I felt shame. I was embarrassed for a lot of years. [00:19:40] I never told people this, but what I learned from that mistake, I like to say. [00:19:45] I paid a million dollar tuition to get an education. Most people never get. [00:19:50] And then I see entrepreneurs reliving this, right? So we’ve never made that mistake again.

[00:19:54] [00:19:55] We’ve built a serious portfolio that’s strong and is [00:20:00] predictable because I realized I can’t invest the way I invested my business. I’ve gotta invest to [00:20:05] stay rich, not to get rich.

[00:20:07] AJ: I heard a great quote not too long ago is that [00:20:10] it’s only a failure if you didn’t learn the lesson.

[00:20:13] Yes. Right. So [00:20:15]

[00:20:15] AJ: good. Only a failure if you didn’t learn the lesson.

[00:20:17] Yes. And sometimes those are really hard, [00:20:20] expensive lessons, but as long as we learn, you know, is worth it, you know? And, [00:20:25] and one of the things that you said I think is really important since you know so many of the people who are listening. [00:20:30] You know, also in the midst of building their personal brand, AKA, their [00:20:35] business, and they’re on this entrepreneurial journey in some capacity, and [00:20:40] we at brand builders groups unknowingly to most, we do the [00:20:45] unsexy work of strategy.

[00:20:47] Right. And often what people think they’re [00:20:50] coming to for us is pretty websites and social media posts and all. And [00:20:55] it’s not a personal brand, nor is it business. Right? And we do the unsexy, [00:21:00] but foundational work of strategy. And what I have found, and I’m sure you’ve experienced [00:21:05] the same, is that that’s what most of us human beings want to [00:21:10] skip through.

[00:21:11] It’s like, well, that’s not where the money comes in. And that’s [00:21:15] not where the interest is earned. And for us, that’s not where everything is pretty and [00:21:20] shiny and in the public it’s, it’s the hard conversations and the planning [00:21:25] and the forecasting and all the things that, it’s like, when is it just gonna be done [00:21:30] work?

[00:21:31] Right. And that’s what I hear you guys saying. It’s like you gotta have a great team, but then you have to have a [00:21:35] great plan. In other words, a strategy before you just go spending your money. [00:21:40]

[00:21:40] Jim: Right. It’s so true. Yeah. And you know, you gotta think about what you’re trying to [00:21:45] achieve. And I always say, automate your saving.[00:21:50]

[00:21:50] And even if it’s 50 bucks a month, automate your saving. And it, I used to say this for years, [00:21:55] and then I found out Warren Buffet had said it a few times, so for whatever reason he gets credit. I don’t get credit. [00:22:00] But the quote is, don’t spend and save. What’s [00:22:05] Le left over? Save and spend what’s left over.

[00:22:08] And so one thing Mimi and I have done [00:22:10] for years is every December we sit down and we say, how much more are we gonna save and invest this next year than we did [00:22:15] last year? And then we. Put the saving in first. So the save saving happens [00:22:20] automatically. Even if we’re buying a piece of real estate, the money goes out of our checking account into another account [00:22:25] with a one-way door can’t come in ’cause we’re building up to buy that piece of real estate or whatever it might be.

[00:22:29] ’cause I need to move it somewhere where I can’t see it. ’cause if it’s sitting in my checking account and I’m pretty disciplined, [00:22:35] Mimi can tell you. But guess what? I like watches and I’m gonna find a watch that I like and I’m gonna spend that [00:22:40] money on a watch. So it will happen to. To the best of you. So safer spend what’s left [00:22:45] ever over.

[00:22:45] Because if you spend first we all know this is true. Guess what? There’s nothing left over. ’cause you can always [00:22:50] find something to spend it on. And by the way, like I said at the beginning, you think certain things are gonna [00:22:55] make you happy. Mm-hmm. But they will not. The only things that using money will make you [00:23:00] happy, as I said, is experiences with people you love getting your time back and, and giving it away.[00:23:05]

[00:23:05] AJ: Yeah. I think that pretty good. So wise,

[00:23:09] Mimi: I love [00:23:10] shoes, but they don’t hold value like the watches do. I know

[00:23:14] Jim: that’s a dangerous thing. [00:23:15] My watches have gone up a lot in value, but I people say, oh, that’s a great investment. I said, no. It’s [00:23:20] not an investment. That is not an investment. Because if I start thinking that, then I’ll start buying more [00:23:25] watches.

[00:23:25] I do not think watches are an investment. I don’t care what anybody says otherwise. I’ll buy watches. [00:23:30] It’s my throwaway money, and if they go up in value, that’s great, but it’s my money that I know we [00:23:35] don’t need and we’ve already saved first. And then I can myself a, a little reward.

[00:23:39] AJ: But, you know, but [00:23:40] that’s, I mean, that, I think that’s, that’s part of the, the plan right there is knowing, hey, this is.

[00:23:44] [00:23:45] This is not an investment strategy, right? This is this budget that we have set [00:23:50] aside after everything else. It’s my fun money. It’s my throwaway money, whatever you call it. But that alone is a [00:23:55] strategy that most of us aren’t taking the time to sit down and actually plan for. So [00:24:00] here’s what I would like to do.

[00:24:00] I’d like to hear from you guys. Maybe just like each of you share one or two tips [00:24:05] are ideas of like, where would you say are some of the most [00:24:10] effective strategies for building wealth today? [00:24:15]

[00:24:15] Mimi: One of the most effective strategies. Please. Well, um, Jim just [00:24:20] gave you one is again, um, saving first. Really, really just because [00:24:25] it doesn’t matter where, what level from a startup entrepreneur to a very [00:24:30] successful entrepreneur is, again, saving first before spending and [00:24:35] just really allocating where you want.

[00:24:37] And then number two is how do you want [00:24:40] you. Your money to work for you. Um, and what I mean by that is [00:24:45] everybody, we, we coined a term that’s called Make Rich Real, and it means different things to [00:24:50] each business owner. Each entrepreneur is, is it taking care of my family? Is it [00:24:55] providing for a charity, is it starting a, a new foundation?

[00:24:58] Is it [00:25:00] experiences and trips? And so just really allocating to. The wealth that you [00:25:05] make to what is truly important, and that’s in your heart. So many of our [00:25:10] clients have, um, for example, have started, foundations have actual rescue [00:25:15] charities that were wasn’t going to survive without, without some of those [00:25:20] I was saying.

[00:25:20] So those are the two big things

[00:25:23] AJ: I love. I think that’s good. And I think the whole [00:25:25] concept of, I just wrote down safer spend second, right? It’s like [00:25:30] simple, but not often practiced.

[00:25:32] Jim: Yeah, I, I, I’m gonna go a little [00:25:35] different direction on that. Uh, the first thing, as I just think about wealth building [00:25:40] strategies, the first thing is have someone, and this could be a firm, this could be a person [00:25:45] that protects you from yourself.

[00:25:46] Hmm.

[00:25:47] Jim: Richard Feynman was one of the greatest physicists who [00:25:50] ever lived, and one of his quotes was principle number one is don’t fool yourself. [00:25:55] And you’re the easiest person to fool. So if one of the greatest physicists said he could fool himself, you can fool [00:26:00] yourself too. And I see this all the time with entrepreneurs.

[00:26:01] They think they’re so darn smart. You’re not that smart. And [00:26:05] I, by the way, I do this my, with myself, and I’ve been investing for 30 years. When I have an [00:26:10] investment and I wanna invest, I’m getting excited. I stop. And I said, Jim, you’re not that smart. [00:26:15] What? Else are you not seeing? Mm-hmm. Now why do I do that?

[00:26:18] I do that because it [00:26:20] checks me in my overconfidence, but then I also have our team. I don’t make any investment. Mimi doesn’t make [00:26:25] any investment unless we talk to our investment team. And guess what? I don’t talk to my friends who are other [00:26:30] business owners, I. Because they think like I do, and they wanna do the crazy nutty stuff and they wanna buy the [00:26:35] NNFT and they want all this stuff, which is fine.

[00:26:37] You just want to have a strategy. How much of your overall [00:26:40] investment portfolio should go into an NFT? And by the way, the answer is not 80%, right? [00:26:45] Yeah. So having a game plan for that, but having someone, and it’s not someone who thinks [00:26:50] like you. It’s someone who thinks differently than you that can put you in check and have you just [00:26:55] rethink what you’re about to do.

[00:26:57] That’s number one. Number two is if you are married. [00:27:00] Take care of your marriage because one of the most expensive mistakes you can make in building wealth [00:27:05] is to have your marriage fail. It is incredibly expensive and distracting and [00:27:10] painful, and you know, on and on and on. Mm-hmm. So take care of your most important [00:27:15] relationship.

[00:27:15] If you’re married, which is your spouse, that’s a huge wealth building [00:27:20] strategy that you need to do. And then the third thing, and this will go in a little bit of a different direction, is [00:27:25] taxes. If you’re especially a successful business owner, the tax code is written to help [00:27:30] business owners do better.

[00:27:31] And your biggest expense if you’re a successful business owner is gonna be taxes. [00:27:35] So have a well thought out tax strategy, just like you have your allocation strategy that’s [00:27:40] implemented by good people, people you trust and have that updated every single year. [00:27:45]

[00:27:45] AJ: Okay, so first of all, I love that comment of like.

[00:27:49] Protect your [00:27:50] marriage. ’cause that can be one of the most devastatingly expensive things that is, is the [00:27:55] fallout from not doing so. And I think that’s a very big deal, a very, [00:28:00] very big deal in a culture where divorce runs rampant. And it’s like, well that doesn’t [00:28:05] just affect your marriage. That affects all parts of your life, your team business, your kids, your health.

[00:28:09] [00:28:10] Like you protect that. The other things kind of tend to work out. Like we have a policy in our family where [00:28:15] it’s, you know, God first marriage, second kids third. Right. And it’s [00:28:20] like as long as we’re good with God and we’re good with each other, everything else in our life takes care of itself. [00:28:25] But our kids do not like it when mom and dad go out on date night.[00:28:30]

[00:28:30] So we have our Wednesday night date night, and every Wednesday they’re like, why don’t we get to [00:28:35] come? And like I’ve had like this ingrained conversation with, and I have my, my boys are little [00:28:40] five and eight and mm-hmm. Literally like. Mommy and daddy need time together. [00:28:45]

[00:28:45] Mimi: Yeah. Yes.

[00:28:45] AJ: Right. And like mom and dad have to have a happy marriage that we can have a [00:28:50] happy family.

[00:28:50] And it’s just been one of those fascinating, interesting things where like [00:28:55] the temptation is so quickly to be like, well, let’s just do a family thing. Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden the marriage [00:29:00] is not existent. And so I love that you said protect your marriage because that [00:29:05] is a, that is a wealth management strategy of like Totally.

[00:29:08] You keep that healthy and [00:29:10] intact. All these other things work. And then you transitioned into something that I wanna spend a few [00:29:15] minutes on talking about taxes. As I mentioned earlier, I am equally frustrated and fascinated [00:29:20] by all things taxes, fascinated by how many, um, [00:29:25] you know, exceptions to the rule there are, and how much you have to know and [00:29:30] learn to know what those exceptions are, right?

[00:29:32] Mm-hmm. There’s a few rules and then [00:29:35] thousands exceptions to the rules that just takes a professional. Mm-hmm. And that ain’t me. [00:29:40] Right. And it’s like I cannot give enough time to learn all the things that are constantly at [00:29:45] play and then changing. Um, but then you talked about having a good tax, you know, strategy.

[00:29:49] [00:29:50] Right? And that’s just like a business strategy. And that also takes it professional [00:29:55] and it’s, I. It’s unique and different by industry and state and your [00:30:00] setup. So what I would love to hear from you guys are like, what are some of the more [00:30:05] universally applicable tax tips or strategies that entrepreneurs need [00:30:10] to know about?

[00:30:11] Jim: Yeah, I, I think I would start with. The [00:30:15] mistakes that entrepreneurs make when they’re trying to do their tax planning, as I said, tactics over strategy. [00:30:20] Yeah. So their buddy said, I, I did a um, 8 31 B micro captive. [00:30:25] Then I’ll do that for myself. Well, it might be okay for your friend. It might be a tragedy for you.

[00:30:29] It could [00:30:30] be a big mistake. Right. Or, you know, I structured my business as a C corp instead of an S corp. [00:30:35] A friend of mine did that and supposedly there’s tax savings there, right? So again, you wanna [00:30:40] make sure that you’re not just doing stuff ’cause a friend of yours told you to do these things. Mm-hmm. You need someone who [00:30:45] understands you very well, your business and what you’re trying to achieve and accomplish to [00:30:50] create a good tax plan.

[00:30:51] So that’s the first thing is. Tax strategy is about the [00:30:55] uniqueness of your situation. It’s not universal. I can’t say, here’s what’s gonna work for these 10 [00:31:00] entrepreneurs. It’s gonna be different for every one of those 10. The other thing is just like investing. There’s [00:31:05] risk tolerance when it comes to tax planning Now.

[00:31:08] First of all, let me say that [00:31:10] there’s tax strategy that are really in the, the area that I would never [00:31:15] touch, right? And so I’ll just give you an example. We’ve seen entity structures, [00:31:20] trust structures. Sometimes it involves a foundation. Sometimes it involves insurance [00:31:25] sales, and magically through all these different entities, you pay no tax.

[00:31:29] Hmm. [00:31:30]

[00:31:30] Jim: Right. And, and the old adage about if it sounds too good to be true, so these, sometimes there’ll be a law [00:31:35] firm involved, but it’s always a little law firm. It’s not a big law firm. And there’s just a, a tax court [00:31:40] case. There’s not a tax court case. But the IRS is going after a business owner in [00:31:45] Colorado, it’s a dentist.

[00:31:46] And the dentist did one of these fancy things with trust and [00:31:50] entities to pay no taxes. And the IRS isn’t just going for interest [00:31:55] and penalties and taxes owed. The IRS is charging the dentist criminally and [00:32:00] trying to put the dentist in jail, and the dentists sign that tax return just like you and I sign [00:32:05] our tax returns.

[00:32:06] So be really careful about taking these ideas without [00:32:10] understanding the risk. That being said, even within the IRS code, we call ’em Bright Line Tracks [00:32:15] transactions. They’re in the code. There’s certain things the IRS. Doesn’t like and tries to [00:32:20] audit and tries to go after. And then there’s other things that the IRS doesn’t go after as often, right?

[00:32:24] [00:32:25] So you have a different risk level based on the entrepreneur. So one entrepreneur or one you could [00:32:30] think for any of you on the call. Sometimes we need entrepreneurs that go, I don’t care, as long as it’s [00:32:35] legal, I don’t care. I’ll take the risk. I wanna pay as little in taxes as legally [00:32:40] possible. If I get audited and lose, I understand the risk.

[00:32:42] I am fine with it. Right? Other entrepreneurs [00:32:45] will tell me. I don’t want to take any risk. I don’t wanna worry about audits. I don’t wanna worry about having to pay [00:32:50] back taxes and penalties and interest, right? Those are different tax plans for those two entrepreneurs. [00:32:55] Then where do they get the advice?

[00:32:57] Right? And so here’s a huge mistake entrepreneurs make. On the one [00:33:00] hand, they’re the accountants, and in general, accountants are historians. They take all your [00:33:05] information, they file the forms. Sometimes they get it right about telling you what you need to pay in your [00:33:10] estimated taxes. But the problem is they’re not forward looking.

[00:33:12] They’re not proactive. They’re not digging into your [00:33:15] situation and saying, Hey, aj, your situation, you need to do A, B, or C. Here are different ways to do it. Here [00:33:20] are your options. Let’s decide what we should do this year, next year, and the year after. They’re [00:33:25] usually looking in the rear view mirror, so that’s a problem.

[00:33:28] And often CPAs are not up on the [00:33:30] latest tax planning because they’re so embroiled in filing tax returns.

[00:33:33] Yeah.

[00:33:34] Jim: Then let’s take the [00:33:35] other extreme. They hire someone called a tax strategist or someone who says that they can help them with [00:33:40] tax. Often these people are paid through selling products. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:43] Sometimes they’re paid a success fee. [00:33:45] I would recommend don’t ever pay a success fee on tax planning where you say, whatever I save you, [00:33:50] you just pay me 10%. That’s a huge problem. Why? Because you are creating this [00:33:55] environment where that person’s gonna wanna save you as much in taxes as possible, even if [00:34:00] there’s too much risk, even if you might get audited, and you might get into trouble because they [00:34:05] get paid on how much they save you not making a smart decision.

[00:34:08] So you wanna pay someone, [00:34:10] you know, a fixed amount. Like, here’s what I’m gonna pay you no matter what. You save me in taxes. You wanna have [00:34:15] someone who has experience, who proactively looks forward, who does this all the time, but not someone [00:34:20] who gets paid in any way other than directly from you. So you don’t want them to get paid.

[00:34:24] If they bring an r and [00:34:25] d tax credit expert in and they get spiffed on the side, you don’t want them to get paid. If they sell you insurance, [00:34:30] you don’t want them to get paid a referral fee for someone. They introduce you to. You need them [00:34:35] only to represent you to understand your tax situation, your risk tolerance and taxes, and [00:34:40] then build a tax plan for you.

[00:34:41] Unfortunately, there aren’t a lot of options in the marketplace ’cause either [00:34:45] people are selling products, getting spiffed on the side or charging success fees, or you’ve got the [00:34:50] accountants that are kind of stuck in the mud, not thinking, but what you need is a firm that. Can help [00:34:55] you build a tax plan in a way where you understand how you’re paying that makes sense, and who can [00:35:00] really build one that fits your risk tolerance and then work with your accountant to make sure it’s [00:35:05] implemented and documented.

[00:35:05] So if you do get audited that you have the proof that you did it right. I. [00:35:10]

[00:35:10] AJ: Yeah. You know, the thing about this conversation, I think that’s really wise and it’s like there’s only [00:35:15] uniqueness, nothing universal. And I think that’s a really wise statement. Um, and then also referencing [00:35:20] the risk tolerance for everyone who’s listening.

[00:35:21] And it’s like, because that is, that’s the truth. Like our entities are [00:35:25] set up differently and our risk tolerance is different. The states are different. I think [00:35:30] where I see so many people challenge, it’s like. Where do you find these people? [00:35:35] Right. And it’s like that kind of back to so many people are defaulting to this one size fits [00:35:40] all.

[00:35:40] It’s like, oh yeah, I have, you know, my accountant, right, who’s a CPA, [00:35:45] they do my taxes. And it’s like, but yeah, like you said, they’re a historian, right? They’re not looking ahead, they’re only [00:35:50] doing what’s backwards. And we learned this the hard way when I realized our previous [00:35:55] tax firm, um, there, and, and this was like, this was an aha moment for me as an entrepreneur, is [00:36:00] that.

[00:36:00] For the relationship that we had, I had to come to realize like [00:36:05] their job was not to go and find out what applied to me that was my [00:36:10] job and that I would take it to them to vet. And it was like a very aha moment. Mm-hmm. That was, uh, [00:36:15] very eye-opening and frustrating. I was like, I thought this was your job, right?

[00:36:19] And [00:36:20] it was like, no, that was my job. And then theirs was just to vet it and go, was it applicable? [00:36:25] And. What hit me is that if I had not been proactive in that none of the things [00:36:30] that we learned that actually applied to us to have us in the right entity structure for our [00:36:35] state and our industry, none of that would’ve actually gotten done.[00:36:40]

[00:36:40] And that’s a scary thought for most entrepreneurs who are trusting all of that to just be done [00:36:45] by who they hired.

[00:36:46] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:47] AJ: So where do people go? [00:36:50] Where do you find these people?[00:36:55]

[00:36:57] That’s a hard, it’s,

[00:36:58] Jim: it’s tough. It’s [00:37:00] tough, you know? And I think, I know

[00:37:00] AJ: it’s tough.

[00:37:01] Jim: I mean that, and that’s why we created this model of the fractional family [00:37:05] office is because we saw that same problem in our own lives, uh, many years ago. Learned [00:37:10] how a billionaire family created this for what reason? And then we said, I wonder if we could do it [00:37:15] for ourselves.

[00:37:15] Mm-hmm. Because really what you’re talking about is having someone in the middle of your wheel. [00:37:20] Who’s managing the tac, the accountant, and the tax planning. Who’s managing the asset [00:37:25] protection? Who’s helping you with your strategy on the investing and putting it all together? And [00:37:30] ultimately, that’s the solution that we believe in most, and that’s what every billionaire does.

[00:37:34] The [00:37:35] problem is if you do it the way the billionaire does it, the very smallest family office cost $2 million a year [00:37:40] to run. And Elon Musk and Bezos, they’re spending over $30 million each. On their [00:37:45] family offices. And so that’s why we created this model. So if you are not [00:37:50] working with someone who can build that for you, then you have to be what we call the air traffic controller.

[00:37:54] You have [00:37:55] to get in there even though you don’t want to, and start holding people accountable. And so with your [00:38:00] accountant, I would suggest with everybody, if you’re not sure, if you’re accountant’s doing a good job or you’ve outgrown your accountant, [00:38:05] I would go schedule a meeting, pay ’em their hourly fee and say, show me what we’ve done the last few [00:38:10] years.

[00:38:11] To legally save on taxes. And in my book I actually talk about this ’cause [00:38:15] we went to our CPA, he had been our CPA since I was a school teacher teaching high school math and [00:38:20] physics, uh, to when we own this business and we’re making a lot of money. And I said that same [00:38:25] question, what have you done for us the last few years?

[00:38:26] And he said, well, remember I said that you can always be buy a [00:38:30] bigger house ’cause you get the interest deduction. You always wanna make sure you’re maxing your 401k [00:38:35] and you could give more money to charity to save money in taxes. And that’s [00:38:40] when I realized, I went back to Mimi and we’re like, this guy’s talking about elementary school.

[00:38:44] We need someone [00:38:45] who’s in graduate school. So I told us we had the wrong accountant. Right. And accountants aren’t [00:38:50]

[00:38:50] AJ: Yeah. For that sake. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:51] Jim: So you have to be the air traffic controller and they have to be careful [00:38:55] that if you’re gonna entrust yourself to attack strategist, you gotta make sure you understand how they’re getting [00:39:00] paid.

[00:39:00] Where their compensation is and, and are they in a position where they’re motivated to [00:39:05] have you take risks that may not be appropriate for how you feel?

[00:39:08] AJ: And I think that’s the key takeaway I wanted [00:39:10] everyone to hear. It’s like at some point, and you need to evaluate who you’re working with and decide.

[00:39:14] [00:39:15] Mm-hmm. Is this still the right person for the season that I’m in? Right. And it’s like, at some point, [00:39:20] we said this earlier, you may outgrow the team. Uh, and in this case it’s like, hey, there’s, there’s a graduation [00:39:25] that happens where it’s like, this was great. For this one phase, I’m now three [00:39:30] phases ahead. I need, I need a different team, a different thought structure, a different [00:39:35] strategy for where I’m heading.

[00:39:37] And I think that’s really good. Everyone who’s listening, if [00:39:40] you guys want to head over, I’m gonna have, uh, Mimi and Jim tell you about [00:39:45] something that they’re offering to this. Uh, call. We’re gonna talk about this waste wait, wait, [00:39:50] wealth waste calculator. And you guys can go and get this. If you go to do wealth, [00:39:55] DEW, do wealth.com/influe influential, and you [00:40:00] can grab the wealth waste calculators.

[00:40:02] Uh, Mimi, tell us what that is. [00:40:05]

[00:40:05] Mimi: Yeah, it’s a tool that we developed and it’s a way, so there’ll be several [00:40:10] questions and numbers. It, it’s, it’s a fun tool. It’s an actual calculator that you can put in [00:40:15] your number so it, it’ll ask you specific questions and in the [00:40:20] end it’ll give you a number of how much money you are [00:40:25] wasting.

[00:40:25] So that’s why we call it the Wealth Waste Calculator. So it, so it’s something [00:40:30] fun to plug in.

[00:40:30] Jim: And by the way, our team has spent hundreds of hours creating things on this. Yes. Pretty amazing. [00:40:35] This is not like something that someone did in 10 minutes and one more thing. You know, your listeners might say, well, [00:40:40] when would I be ready for a fractional family office to solve all these problems for me?

[00:40:43] Right. And really the [00:40:45] starting point is once you, if you have a business, ’cause this is for business owners, once you’re doing a million [00:40:50] dollars of gross revenue and netting at least 250,000, believe it or not, at that level, [00:40:55] you can start getting help. A fractional family office, and of course this goes all the way up [00:41:00] to where you could be making, you know, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars, and it could still make sense for [00:41:05] you.[00:41:10]

[00:41:14] Did we lose [00:41:15] aj?

[00:41:15] Mimi: I know. Where’s aj?[00:41:20]

[00:41:23] Jim: We lost aj.[00:41:25] [00:41:30] [00:41:35]

[00:41:38] AJ: That was fun. [00:41:40] My, uh, Chrome decided to restart, so I’m going to have you start [00:41:45] over, Jim, when you said, some of you’re probably wondering when is the right time, so if you’ll [00:41:50] start over right there. Okay.

[00:41:53] Jim: Some of you may be wondering [00:41:55] when is the right time where you can actually afford to have a fractional family office?

[00:41:59] And believe it or [00:42:00] not, the starting point is when you’re a business owner and you’re doing a million dollars of gross [00:42:05] revenue netting at least 250,000. At that point, you can actually get the [00:42:10] essentials of a fractional family office. And of course, from there up to, you know, if you’re doing a [00:42:15] hundred, $200 million of revenue in your business, a fractional family office still could be a really, really [00:42:20] smart thing to do.

[00:42:20] So that’s where it would start.

[00:42:22] AJ: That’s good. And I think that’s good because that’s a lot lower than [00:42:25] probably most of us were thinking. I think most of people think, oh wow, like Family [00:42:30] wealth office, I probably need to be making $10 million. And it’s like. And, and that’s why I love the [00:42:35] fractional concept of this.

[00:42:36] It’s like this is something that you can start way ahead of probably [00:42:40] when you thought so. Okay. I know that we only have a couple minutes left. I’m watching the clock. I promise I’ll only [00:42:45] keep you for the hour that we promised. But I have, um, a quick question for both of you [00:42:50] and then we’ll wrap this up.

[00:42:51] But if you guys haven’t already, go to do [00:42:55] wealth.com/. Influential and actually use this wealth waste [00:43:00] calculator. I think it’s gonna be super valuable for everyone who’s listening. Alright. Here’s my question, [00:43:05] uh, for you, Jim, looking ahead the next five years, right. [00:43:10] And as we’re recording this, we’re in spring of 2025.

[00:43:13] Right. So looking ahead between now and [00:43:15] call it 2030, what are some of the trends that you [00:43:20] foresee becoming more mainstream or, or more prominent when it comes to wealth management [00:43:25] practices?

[00:43:26] Jim: Great question and I’m gonna answer that and then I’m gonna ask [00:43:30] myself a different question. And that is, as far as trends, obviously AI is gonna have a big [00:43:35] impact on things like wealth planning.

[00:43:36] It’s gonna have a big impact on everything. But there are certain things that are not gonna [00:43:40] change. And there was a, an interview with Jeff Bezos and the question was, what’s gonna change [00:43:45] in the next 10 years? And he said, I get asked that a lot. The question I don’t get asked, I should get asked [00:43:50] more is what’s not going to change in the next 10 years?

[00:43:52] ’cause it’s very hard to predict what’s gonna change. [00:43:55] It’s easier to predict what’s not gonna change and build a company around what’s not gonna change. So here’s what’s [00:44:00] not gonna change in the next five years, which is the most important question. Over time, real estate’s [00:44:05] gonna go up in value. Stocks will go up in value.

[00:44:07] Private equity will go up in value. [00:44:10] All certain things reliably and predictably will go up in in value. Over time. They’re gonna have their times when [00:44:15] they don’t go up in value. You want to be investing and reliable, predictable things in a solid [00:44:20] portfolio with a strategy over time. And then forget the noise.

[00:44:23] I hear entrepreneurs, they’re always trying to [00:44:25] guess what’s gonna happen next. Forget about it. You’re not gonna be able to guess what’s gonna happen next. And if [00:44:30] someone does, guess what? They’re totally lucky. Mm-hmm. So stop watching the news. Save first, [00:44:35] spend what’s left, get yourself on a good game plan, and then also get a good tax plan.[00:44:40]

[00:44:40] And then of course, the things like, like protect, but worry about what’s not gonna change [00:44:45] and what’s not gonna change in the next five years is all those things I just mentioned.

[00:44:48] AJ: Yeah, I love [00:44:50] that. I don’t know, um, if you guys have ever read the book by Morgan [00:44:55] Hasell, psychology of Money.

[00:44:56] Jim: Love that book.

[00:44:57] AJ: Uh, it’s one of my favorite books on money because [00:45:00] it talks about just that, right?

[00:45:02] Mm-hmm. It is like long-term in mind, [00:45:05] conservative nature. Focus on the things that are likely not going to change and [00:45:10] ignore the rest is that it’s boring, it’s conservative, it’s not [00:45:15] sexy, but it works.

[00:45:18] Jim: Yep. And, and you’re gonna get rich by [00:45:20] building a business. You’re not gonna get rich by picking crypto at the right moment or, [00:45:25] or buying the penny stock or buying that one real estate property that nobody knows is [00:45:30] worth a bunch of money.

[00:45:31] That’s not how you’re gonna rich. That’s how you’re gonna stay rich. You’re gonna get rich by being [00:45:35] concentrated in a business. ’cause that’s how Americans get rich.

[00:45:37] AJ: I love that. Um, alright, last question. [00:45:40] Um, uh, Mimi, and you know, Jim, you can feel free to chime in, but I’m gonna ask Mimi this question. [00:45:45] It’s like.

[00:45:45] In a world where a lot of people have influence, some of [00:45:50] it earned, some of it not. And in a lot of, uh, you know, my world at least, we talk a [00:45:55] lot about influencers versus influential, and you guys work with a lot of influential [00:46:00] people. So I’d love to hear, like, for you, like what does influential mean in [00:46:05] your world, in your workspace?

[00:46:08] Mimi: Influential and I, I, [00:46:10] uh, mentioned this a little bit earlier is we are. [00:46:15] Our entrepreneurs, what we do is we unlock resources for them so [00:46:20] that they foster so many different connections to make this world [00:46:25] a better place. And we’ve seen children’s charities grow. We’ve [00:46:30] seen foundations thrive. We’ve seen families [00:46:35] leave a legacy.

[00:46:36] Of, um, not just wealth from generation to [00:46:40] generation in gen, but how they’re teaching their kids to think about [00:46:45] money, how they. Money is saving lives. [00:46:50] Something that that’s really near and dear to our hearts. Jim and I never ended up having children. We’ve [00:46:55] been married 32 years and we’ve been working together as a spouse and, and really being intentional about our [00:47:00] relationship.

[00:47:00] But we just said what’s really important to us kids. Kids [00:47:05] rescuing them out of poverty. So we’ve started scholarships because we believe [00:47:10] one of the best ways of getting out of generational poverty is through [00:47:15] education. And so we’ve created. Some scholarships. We’re gonna continue creating more [00:47:20] scholarship, uh, throughout the year.

[00:47:21] So when I hear [00:47:25] influencers influential, it’s for us. The influencers are the ones who have been [00:47:30] influential to this society by giving back, making a [00:47:35] difference, and being role models for others to look up to in [00:47:40] how they’re truly creating wealth. By the use of the money that that [00:47:45] they have acquired.

[00:47:46] AJ: I love that.

[00:47:47] I think that’s so awesome. And I [00:47:50] think a lot of people talk about, you know, you know, and it’s interesting, I think [00:47:55] money is a tool, right? Right. And you can wield it for good [00:48:00] just as much as you can, wield it for evil. And it’s like what I hear you saying is like there is a [00:48:05] major opportunity PE for people who have been fortunate enough to build a lot of wealth to create [00:48:10] influence.

[00:48:11] And have influential opportunities that can change the trajectories [00:48:15] of lives, families, generations, if it’s used in the right ways. [00:48:20] I love that.

[00:48:20] Jim: Absolutely. I, I agree with Mimi and [00:48:25] you know, I, I think every, he agrees with me. I always agree with Mimi. That’s the smart thing. You have to [00:48:30] think where you are and what are your capabilities because influence, a lot of times we think [00:48:35] of like the rich and famous who have influence, but everybody has influence and everyone creates a [00:48:40] ripple effect.

[00:48:40] And even the way you and Rory are doing your date nights, right? One of the greatest gifts you can [00:48:45] give to your kids is how you model a marriage. And even though they give you a hard time about like, oh, we [00:48:50] want to go with you. In the future, they’re gonna go, wow. I saw how mom and dad [00:48:55] handled their marriage, and that gives me a modeling of how, like Mimi and I didn’t have the best [00:49:00] parenting as far as marriages and how they were modeled, but we’ve worked very hard to create a [00:49:05] model of our marriage.

[00:49:06] So it doesn’t have to be that you give a million dollars to charity, although that’s [00:49:10] fantastic if you can do that. It can also be other ways you influence people every day [00:49:15] in a way that is caring and kind and makes a difference because. The one [00:49:20] person you touch could touch thousands or millions of lives.

[00:49:23] You don’t know what you don’t know, what your kids [00:49:25] at their age, what they’re gonna grow up to become, and just what you’re doing right now with those [00:49:30] kids could have ripple effects that blow your mind in 20 or 30 years. So that’s what I would say with [00:49:35] influence. It’s easy for people to look on TikTok or watch TV and go Now, that’s the influential person.[00:49:40]

[00:49:40] But it’s the person who’s kind and who can touch others and who can make a difference and [00:49:45] lead people, and guide people and teach people. Those are the ones that have true influence that will matter [00:49:50] when the, you know, in the test of time, you know, in, in the future.

[00:49:53] AJ: I. Amen. Well, I couldn’t [00:49:55] agree more, and I, I agree with both of you, and I think the conversation of what it means to build [00:50:00] wealth, keep wealth, but then also deploy wealth for the good of others is [00:50:05] such an important conversation for the growing and scaling entrepreneur to to know [00:50:10] what to do with the money that they’re building so that it does create that lasting legacy and [00:50:15] creates influence beyond them.

[00:50:16] So both of you, thank you so much for joining us. On this [00:50:20] episode for everyone who is listening, again, go to do [00:50:25] wealth.com/influential. Check out that wealth waste calculator. Stick around, listen to the [00:50:30] recap episode. That will be coming up next, and we will see you guys next time on the influential personal [00:50:35] [00:50:40] brand.

Ep 588: How To Grow Your Social Media Following | Nicholas John

[00:00:00] Rory: Hey, welcome back to the Influential Personal Brand Podcast. One of the things that [00:00:05] we talk about often is that building a social media following is not what [00:00:10] it means to have a personal brand. Personal branding is the digitization of your [00:00:15] reputation.

[00:00:15] Yet social media is an important part of building a personal [00:00:20] brand, and it is something that is massively, uh, you can be a massive [00:00:25] indicator of your success. It can massively contribute to you reaching more people. And so today [00:00:30] is a very specific episode that’s dedicated to how to [00:00:35] grow on social media.

[00:00:36] And the person that we’ve invited in for this is someone that I [00:00:40] consider a personal friend. I actually started following this guy online, and [00:00:45] I loved so much what he was doing and how he was doing it. That I [00:00:50] actually reached out to him and I just, I just let him know. I said, I admire you. I think you’re doing a great [00:00:55] job.

[00:00:55] Uh, I don’t know what your business is, but keep it going. Uh, and so [00:01:00] I’m excited to introduce you to my friend Nick Nicholas. John. Now, he has been an [00:01:05] actor. He’s been a singer. He is been a model. There’s several different things that he has done, [00:01:10] but in the last couple years, he has grown to over 1 million followers on Instagram [00:01:15] and about a half a million or so on TikTok and few other places.

[00:01:18] And he’s done [00:01:20] this without being an international celebrity, without being like a billionaire, [00:01:25] like just going out and buying a bunch of ads. He’s done this. By serving an [00:01:30] audience with intention and efficiency and effectiveness and just [00:01:35] care. And I really, really love following him. He’s one of my, my favorite people to follow.

[00:01:39] [00:01:40] So he specializes. I think most of his content is sort of around just wisdom, uh, [00:01:45] mental health, uh, personal development, some spirituality. And so I was like, [00:01:50] Nicholas, do you think you would ever come on our show and just like, share some of your secrets? And he [00:01:55] graciously agreed. And so here he is, Nicholas John, welcome to the show.

[00:01:58] Nick: Thank you. Thank you. That was such a [00:02:00] nice introduction. I appreciate that a lot. Seriously, I,

[00:02:03] Rory: I wanna hear the story of how [00:02:05] you, how you got into this. Yeah. ’cause I feel like, I mean, you live here in Nashville. [00:02:10] Mm-hmm. Uh, right. And so I was super excited about that when I found out. ’cause I was like, oh, I could actually meet you in, in the real [00:02:15] person.

[00:02:15] Um, and I feel like your background. There’s a lot of [00:02:20] people in the world who are like, I was gonna be an actor. I was gonna be a singer. Yeah. I was gonna be, I’m [00:02:25] just a creative. And then, you know, in the world of social media, you’ve kind of like [00:02:30] found a home, made a home mm-hmm. For yourself. So tell us that story,

[00:02:33] Nick: man.

[00:02:33] It’s, uh, [00:02:35] where to begin, but I, I think a lot of people especially that are listening to this [00:02:40] and follow you, um, will relate to this idea of feeling like very [00:02:45] creative, but not necessarily always knowing where to use it. Like what outlet is the best [00:02:50] suit for your creativity. Um, and for me, [00:02:55] man, it was a long, long journey, but I came here to pursue songwriting, so I [00:03:00] randomly started writing songs in, um.

[00:03:03] In Wisconsin when [00:03:05] I was in college and my friends convinced me to put it online. It’s really cringey and embarrassing at [00:03:10] this point, but like the, the second show I ever did, I was opening for Mac [00:03:15] Miller. Like, it was crazy stuff. Like, it just like it worked, but it wasn’t, [00:03:20] um, it wasn’t me. Like I could feel that it wasn’t me in a way.

[00:03:24] [00:03:25] And I was, I was doing it maybe for, I guess the wrong reasons, like [00:03:30] to glorify myself in a way. And so, uh, fast forward, moved to [00:03:35] Nashville to try and pursue songwriting in a different way. And throughout that journey [00:03:40] kind of was introduced to this idea of Jesus and uh, Christianity. [00:03:45] And that really shifted how I viewed what my purpose on [00:03:50] this planet was.

[00:03:51] Interesting. Yeah. And so, you know, something [00:03:55] that. You say, or I’ve heard you say on a podcast that is like, truly one of my [00:04:00] favorite quotes is the, your most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. And, [00:04:05] uh, that, just that concept in general. Uh, it rang true for me. [00:04:10] Reading to Reading The Go Giver was a great book that I love.

[00:04:12] That book helped me. Um, and [00:04:15] then the Bible and just, you know, people like you kind of shifting this mindset [00:04:20] of like, okay, how can I use these talents that I’ve been given, not just to glorify [00:04:25] myself, but um, to help other people. And, uh, I guess just to get [00:04:30] real raw with it right away. I, when I first moved here, I’ve had some, [00:04:35] like, struggles with addiction in a way in my life and I was trying [00:04:40] to kind of overcome those and I became obsessed with like reading books and [00:04:45] listening to, um, people like Les Brown and like Tony Robbins, [00:04:50] everybody.

[00:04:50] I’m, you know, ’em all and you are one of them. Um, but it’s. [00:04:55] It, it kind of just shifted my mindset and that was what helped me to kind of dig [00:05:00] out of this hole. And so I became just obsessed with trying [00:05:05] to make myself a better version of me, but also in a way that was like loving and giving [00:05:10] to others. It wasn’t just about me being great for me, for my purpose, you know?

[00:05:14] [00:05:15] And, uh, and then I fell into social media a couple years [00:05:20] ago. Um, we can go there. When did you

[00:05:22] Rory: start, when did you start really like [00:05:25] going, when did you start getting deliberate about creating content?

[00:05:28] Nick: Uh, it [00:05:30] was two years in a month ago, so, yeah. Yeah. So it was like two years and [00:05:35] you’ve gone

[00:05:35] Rory: to a million and I think when I first met you, even, you maybe had like 200,000 [00:05:40] followers on his Instagram.

[00:05:40] Yeah. Instagram or something. Remember

[00:05:41] 140,

[00:05:42] Nick: I remember. 140. Yeah. ’cause I,

[00:05:44] Rory: I was like, gosh, [00:05:45] this guy’s so cool. Uh, and, uh, you know, I’ve been doing this for 20 years and [00:05:50] I have like 70,000 followers, so I both admire you and hate you at the same [00:05:55] time. Yeah, but

[00:05:55] Nick: you’re, you’re great at everything in this world. [00:06:00] I found my, like, you know, my one path that works for me.

[00:06:03] Like, I can’t get on a [00:06:05] stage like you, that’s, wow, thank you for that. But I maybe one day,

[00:06:07] Rory: you know what [00:06:10] part, part of why I love what you do, and if, if you’re not following Nicholas, you gotta go [00:06:15] follow. By the way, do you go by Nick?

[00:06:16] Nick: Nick? You know me as Nick, but is my, you know, my, your handle

[00:06:19] Rory: [00:06:20] is Nicholas John.

[00:06:21] So I’m like, oh, okay. Um, but if you’re not following Nick, you need to, you [00:06:25] need to go check him out because it’s, it’s super inspiring and you’re, you don’t [00:06:30] create Christian content. Yeah. You’re a Christian who creates content. Same, same as me. Yeah, exactly. Um, I do create [00:06:35] a little bit of Christian content as, as do you.

[00:06:36] I love that. But, um, it’s [00:06:40] so uplifting and I think. In, in the world of social media, the [00:06:45] fastest way to go viral is to say something that I think is [00:06:50] polarizing. Yep. That is, um, sensationalized something that is [00:06:55] controversial. Uh, you know, news topics, celebrity [00:07:00] gossip, uh, political commentary is actually anything that evokes [00:07:05] anger we know is most likely to go viral.

[00:07:08] Mm-hmm. Then you [00:07:10] have the, like, you know, kind of pranks and, you know, funny [00:07:15] videos and memes and things like that, but you are truly in the space [00:07:20] of encouragement and insight, and yet [00:07:25] you have built a very viral following, uh, doing that. And, [00:07:30] and I just, I I love that. I, I, I think you showcase that this is the beautiful [00:07:35] part of social media

[00:07:36] Nick: mm-hmm.

[00:07:36] Rory: Where it’s like, I want to change lives. I want to help people, I wanna encourage people. It’s like [00:07:40] every one of your videos is. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of views, some [00:07:45] millions of views. And it’s not scantily clad people. It’s [00:07:50] not political stuff, it’s not celebrity stuff. It’s, it’s true insight and wisdom.

[00:07:53] And I, I just, I [00:07:55] I I love that. And my question on that is, I think there’s a lot of people who [00:08:00] try to share encouragement or wisdom. I would put myself in that category. Mm-hmm. [00:08:05] But we haven’t figured out how to get it to take. Mm-hmm. Why do you think it’s, [00:08:10] you’ve been able to get that to so much traction, so, so quickly?

[00:08:13] Nick: Yeah. I [00:08:15] don’t know exactly is the answer, but, um, you know, there are [00:08:20] some things that I think may add to it. I, [00:08:25] you know, I, one thing is I just am [00:08:30] trying to share things. I’m learning with people, you know, um, I’ve always [00:08:35] said. I don’t think I’m ever gonna be a guru. I, or like have the answers. ’cause I really [00:08:40] don’t, I don’t know if anyone knows why we’re here.

[00:08:42] Um, like I, that’s just kind of my, [00:08:45] there’s some quotes that say sentiment, like, you know, the more you learn, the more you [00:08:50] know, the less you realize, you know, and, and that’s really how I feel. [00:08:55] And so, you know, I don’t claim to have any answers. I just kind of [00:09:00] try and share what really helps me. And that’s really the only metric that I use is [00:09:05] it’s similar.

[00:09:05] It’s similar to what you do, it’s just things that have helped you along the way. [00:09:10] And, uh, just share ’em in a loving posture, um, [00:09:15] where we’re in it together. I think that that’s an important approach.

[00:09:18] Rory: Yeah, I see that it’s very [00:09:20] enduring. It’s, it’s very humble. It’s very honest. And it does feel like that where, [00:09:25] you know, you don’t have to be the guru.

[00:09:28] Yeah. You don’t even have to be the [00:09:30] guide. It’s more of like. It’s more of like, you’re the my partner. Mm-hmm. Like my buddy. Like, we’re going [00:09:35] on this journey together. Yep. Um, and that’s, I [00:09:40] think that in and of itself is an inspiring lesson for people. Yes. To be like, you don’t have to [00:09:45] be there on camera with all the answers.

[00:09:46] Nick: Yes.

[00:09:47] Rory: Uh, people can just like, follow your journey and they [00:09:50] go with you. And that’s what it’s like. There’s just like an army of people that are just kind of like going with you on the journey.

[00:09:54] Nick: Yeah, that’s [00:09:55] exactly it, man.

[00:09:56] Rory: It’s so how much do you read? Because one thing you do is you share a lot of [00:10:00] quotes.

[00:10:01] Yeah. Mm-hmm. A lot of other people’s, um, I mean many videos. You’re [00:10:05] like holding a book. Yep. Reading something. Um. And then you’re sharing like a piece [00:10:10] of that book. Yeah. How much are you, how much are you reading?

[00:10:12] Nick: Uh, I used to read a lot [00:10:15] more, like when I kind of first started this, you know, it’s, it’s similar to how [00:10:20] musicians like their first album is, like their whole life’s work, and then they have to make a second [00:10:25] album and it has to happen in like a year or whatever.

[00:10:26] Mm-hmm. Like I feel like when I started, it was just all the books I’d ever [00:10:30] read in my life were all just at my fingertips and I have highlights all over the place. So [00:10:35] I would just sift through those. And just to kind of give a, I guess, the backstory [00:10:40] on that so people understand how it started for me. Um, I was doing [00:10:45] video like pro professionally for people, so I started shooting [00:10:50] video.

[00:10:50] Interesting. And, um, I was also acting in commercials for the past like eight [00:10:55] years and, uh, mainly non-speaking commercials. So like, that was just kinda my [00:11:00] bread and butter. I just love ’em. They’re, they’re so fun. But I started doing video after [00:11:05] I did music because I felt like it was the same muscle. Like I just, I was very drawn to it and I [00:11:10] was just obsessed with, like, figuring out how to make it look good and.

[00:11:14] Uh, that [00:11:15] was, it just pulled me in. And so I was hired by a lot of people to help [00:11:20] their brands or help their podcasts or whatever, shoot their podcast. And I was kind of in [00:11:25] charge of social media. And so I learned about this thing called TikTok. And [00:11:30] I read up on like how the algorithm worked. And I was just so fascinated.

[00:11:33] I was like, this is the most genius idea [00:11:35] ever. Like, it’s gonna go to 200 people no matter what and how, based on how they [00:11:40] respond, based on if they like it or share it or save it, it’ll go to more and then it’ll go to more. And I was just like, [00:11:45] that is incredible. So I made a golf video, uh, about [00:11:50] how to hit out of the sand.

[00:11:51] Golf is my first love. It’s still my first love. Interesting. Besides my [00:11:55] wife and God. But, uh, it, it went viral, like [00:12:00] overnight, like a million and a half views. And I was just like, and I had zero followers. I just made a random account, huh. And it, and it [00:12:05] went crazy. And so I was just like fascinated by this.

[00:12:09] This [00:12:10] platform. And so I built a golf account for like three months just for fun. And it, like, every video [00:12:15] would go crazy. Wow. And I would, I would strip other people’s videos from YouTube, [00:12:20] chop ’em up, make ’em really digestible. Um, and then one day I [00:12:25] shared something. I learned about a book on another account account that I made personally.

[00:12:29] [00:12:30] And it was about the dopamine reward system. And it just like blew my mind when I read it. [00:12:35] And so I just shared it. And that one also went viral, like immediately. [00:12:40] And I just, I, that’s the moment where it clicked for me. Like, maybe people are interested [00:12:45] in the things that I like and so maybe I’ll just keep trying.

[00:12:48] And over the [00:12:50] course of that week, I kind of realized that I could share passages from other people’s books. [00:12:55] Um, ’cause I’ve never felt comfortable being the guy who has the answers. [00:13:00] Uh, I, I feel much more comfortable like sharing something and then talking [00:13:05] about why I agree with it. So, um, that. Was really [00:13:10] like it, it just started working like crazy on TikTok.

[00:13:12] But honestly I was scared to go on [00:13:15] Instagram ’cause all my high school friends were there. All my whole, my music following, like, [00:13:20] uh, not that it was big or anything, but it was like everyone knew me as this guy. It’s like, where’s this [00:13:25] book guy gonna come out of like, only my close friends knew. I loved to read and so I [00:13:30] actually made another account and just started posting all the videos that [00:13:35] I had made on TikTok for the past six months that were working really well over there.

[00:13:38] I started posting ’em on [00:13:40] Instagram and like nothing happened. I wanted to quit after like two weeks. Everything was getting [00:13:45] a hundred views, 200 views or whatever, but I did it every day for 30 [00:13:50] days and one just like randomly took off and uh, it never [00:13:55] stopped since then. But I’m kind of convinced that.

[00:13:59] I’ve come [00:14:00] to this assumption on my own. I’m always thinking like, what is, what do the social media platforms want and how do they [00:14:05] work behind the scenes? And I’m just making all this up, Uhhuh, but I think they put you into a bucket of like [00:14:10] creator or consumer. And I really believe that like each person, you’re saying that

[00:14:14] Rory: each [00:14:15] person, they, they kind of, the, the, the platform kind of tags you as like a creator or a [00:14:20] consumer.

[00:14:20] Nick: That’s my thought. Interesting. And so, like my other account had been mainly a consumer for [00:14:25] 10 years. Like I’d post once a month or whatever. And then, um, [00:14:30] I started this account fresh and I never stopped from day one. [00:14:35] And I really believed that that had an impact on something because I did it with one other friend and [00:14:40] his account blew up as well.

[00:14:41] So I really think there’s something to, you know, if [00:14:45] someone’s had no success on their social media or they wanna like rebrand themselves, I think it’s a [00:14:50] really liberating thing to just start fresh. Interesting. And everyone who [00:14:55] wants to be there. Or everyone who is there to follow you wants to be there.

[00:14:59] So just [00:15:00] like start fresh. It’s daunting, it’s scary, but like, just start,

[00:15:04] Rory: even today you [00:15:05] have a link to your like personal account. Yeah. This is, this is like my content and then [00:15:10] here’s like me personally. Yeah. You still have that. ’cause we get that question a lot of like, should I [00:15:15] start a new account? And you know, usually we tell people you can go either [00:15:20] way.

[00:15:20] Um, but we say make a decision on [00:15:25] who you wanna be and just start being that person today. Like no explanation, no [00:15:30] announcement. You just wake up one day. You, yesterday I was this person. Mm-hmm. And today going forward, [00:15:35] I am now this person. And you can come along for the ride or you can unfollow. Yep. [00:15:40] And that’s totally fine.

[00:15:41] But you don’t need to pander to all to try to serve [00:15:45] all the people who are following you. You decide this is who I want to be. And then you [00:15:50] plant, pivot and go. Now what’s interesting though is about the health of your actual account. [00:15:55] Yeah. Is to go, if I’ve been a consumer for years, maybe there is [00:16:00] power to just starting over and going, no, this is a new account.

[00:16:02] This is a creator account. Yeah. I’ve never thought of [00:16:05] that. Yeah. And I think never thought of that before today.

[00:16:07] Nick: And I think more importantly is that it’s [00:16:10] the psychological element because for you as a creator, yeah. For me, or for anyone who, [00:16:15] like if you’re gonna step into this version of yourself that you’ve wanted to do and you’ve held back for a [00:16:20] long time, like it’s really liberating to just start with a fresh [00:16:25] page and like.

[00:16:26] No one know, I didn’t tell anyone until I had a hundred [00:16:30] thousand followers. I still, most, a lot of my friends, they all find it on their own, but I never [00:16:35] tell anyone. And I did that on purpose ’cause I didn’t want anyone to kill my dreams. You [00:16:40] know? Like I wanted to just go and just be myself. And [00:16:45] if people found it, they found it.

[00:16:46] But

[00:16:47] Rory: you know what I, I love what you said there [00:16:50] about not telling your friends mm-hmm. Because you didn’t want anyone, anyone, to kill your dreams. Yeah. [00:16:55] Like, so often we feel like we need our friends and family to sign [00:17:00] off on something. Yeah. Like, almost like we need their permission and it’s such a better [00:17:05] strategy to just don’t tell anyone.

[00:17:07] Yeah. Just put your head down and [00:17:10] go like, go to work. Mm-hmm. Do the thing. Be the person you wanna be, create [00:17:15] the things that you wanna create, and then put your head down and don’t look up for a year and [00:17:20] then look up and like, oh, I. And now you go to people who say, look, this is who I am now. And they’re like, oh, [00:17:25] that’s amazing.

[00:17:25] I knew you could do it. Yeah. Right. Seriously. Um, so I wanna get, I [00:17:30] wanna talk about the algorithm a bit Yeah. Because I, I know, I know you have a deep understanding of that. Before we get into that, I wanna talk about the shot, [00:17:35] actually, because the video production of this Yeah. Uh, I think a lot of people, this is [00:17:40] me included, right?

[00:17:40] But before Brand Builders Group was really growing and, um, before we had [00:17:45] Chris, my guy Chris over here in Preston, and like our team, it’s like, I was [00:17:50] just there by myself trying to fumble with a camera and I was like, I don’t know how to use a camera. I don’t know. Mm-hmm. What’s the [00:17:55] right cable, the right cord?

[00:17:56] Like which microphone plugs into the camera? The [00:18:00] lighting, how much does that stuff matter? Or, or, or lemme ask you this way, [00:18:05] what matters and what doesn’t matter. Mm-hmm. Particularly when you’re kind of like [00:18:10] beginner or intermediate. Mm-hmm. Like what are the, the big things someone needs to know about [00:18:15] setting up the shot?

[00:18:16] Or, or, or does it even really matter?

[00:18:19] Nick: Yeah. [00:18:20] That’s, uh, my philosophy at least is to [00:18:25] keep it as simple as possible. And I think you would agree, but I, um, [00:18:30] I think, so I would do this with music. This is kind of a funny [00:18:35] example. Like, music sometimes is very hard for me to make. And, uh, it’s a [00:18:40] really challenging process and it’s, I would, I would think that in order to make a [00:18:45] song, I have to go buy something.

[00:18:46] Like I need to go buy a new keyboard or something that’ll make me write a [00:18:50] song, like some dumb thing like that. And I, I do that with working out. I’m [00:18:55] like,

[00:18:55] Rory: if I don’t feel like working out, I just go buy a water bottle or a new pair of shorts or new shoes. And I’m like, now I [00:19:00] wanna work out ’cause I wanna use my shoes.

[00:19:03] Nick: But I think in this, in the [00:19:05] creative world, like you can just over complicate it. And I’ll, I’ll [00:19:10] say, I don’t believe you need anything I shot. Everything on just an [00:19:15] iPhone for, until I had maybe a, a million followers or like a, like [00:19:20] 750,000 or something. I never used anything else. It was just an iPhone. But you [00:19:25] can, uh, I was just talking about this, we were just talking about this, uh, [00:19:30] that video and photo are the study of light.

[00:19:34] [00:19:35] And so it’s not the study of cameras. It’s like figuring out how does light [00:19:40] work and how does it react on your face and like what makes [00:19:45] your face pop? What, how do people light things in a profession? You can go on [00:19:50] YouTube and learn this stuff in like 30 minutes and uh, I just obsessed over [00:19:55] that when I was in video and so I just learned how to do it.

[00:19:58] But I just, I just [00:20:00] use a, like, if you’re just starting and you wanna do this, just find a window and put a [00:20:05] sheet over it and you’re good. Like, okay, let’s talk

[00:20:07] Rory: about that. ’cause I love that like natural [00:20:10] light. Why the sheet? Yeah, because why? The, why does the sheet matter?

[00:20:13] Nick: Yeah. ’cause lights, [00:20:15] it’s very harsh.

[00:20:16] And so if, if the sun is your source of light, it’s gonna be [00:20:20] very harsh. But if you diffuse it, like it’s come, it’s called diffusion. If it’s coming through [00:20:25] something else, it breaks up and the intensity doesn’t hit you as strong. So [00:20:30] like we have lights in the studio. If you just had the light blaring at me, my face would have all shadows.

[00:20:34] [00:20:35] All crazy. But it’s very soft right now because we have diffusers over the lights. Ah. And [00:20:40] so you need to have some something like, um, I guess [00:20:45] ring lights, they have like the plastic thing over the front. If it was just the lights hitting you, it’d be a lot harsher. [00:20:50] But yeah, just diffusing the sunlight.

[00:20:52] Like if you ever see a photo shoot when [00:20:55] you’re walking around Nashville, like a professional one. And I got lucky ’cause I got to see influencers in [00:21:00] the, influencers in the wild. Yeah. Yeah. All over Nashville. Um, and there’s someone [00:21:05] who’s holding what’s called like a scrim. Like it’s, it’s just. A big white [00:21:10] circle, and it’s, he’ll put it in between the sun and the subject so that it [00:21:15] just breaks the light and softens it on your skin, um, so that the shadows aren’t as [00:21:20] intense.

[00:21:20] Interesting. And so it’s very, uh, yeah. So simple.

[00:21:24] Rory: Sit in front of [00:21:25] a window. Put a sheet. Yeah. Put your iPhone up. Tripod. Yep. And just go.

[00:21:29] Nick: [00:21:30] Yeah, just go. And then you can, you can dive into, I mean, I obviously have an [00:21:35] understanding of like, editing software and like a little bit of coloring stuff that you [00:21:40] could do on YouTube, figure it out.

[00:21:41] But when you say

[00:21:41] Rory: coloring, you’re talking about like, again, like the, the, [00:21:45] the, almost like the lighting, the color balance of the video. Uh, yeah.

[00:21:48] Nick: So like, once I throw it into my computer, [00:21:50] how can I, um, just make some small tweaks on, on, uh, [00:21:55] video or on the video and the colors and stuff. And, um,

[00:21:59] Rory: what are you [00:22:00] thinking about when you edit a video?

[00:22:01] So like, you shoot the content. Well, first of all, tell, [00:22:05] tell me about your planning process. Like mm-hmm. What’s the, what’s the, so you get the [00:22:10] setup. Okay, so now we’ve got the setup, so now I gotta like, figure out what I’m gonna record. Yeah. And in your world, a lot of what you’re [00:22:15] doing is sharing your favorite quotes, so you’re just like, reading every day and going, mm-hmm.

[00:22:18] That’s a great one. I’m [00:22:20] gonna share that one.

[00:22:20] Nick: Yeah.

[00:22:21] Rory: Uh, is that pretty much all there is to it? Or like, do you plan out, okay, [00:22:25] here’s how I’m gonna present that and roll that out, and like, what’s your, what’s your thought process [00:22:30] as you go into planning the content?

[00:22:32] Nick: Yeah. I think, um, I learned from like [00:22:35] being a songwriter that, um, and you probably have this similar process [00:22:40] with writing speeches or whatnot, that you kind of just have like a place in your [00:22:45] phone or something where when you hear something you just jot it down.

[00:22:48] Yeah. Like in the same spot, inspiration, [00:22:50] whatever. Um, or like favorite quote or when I’m reading, write the quote there, put it in the [00:22:55] note app or whatever. Um, so that you’re kind of gathering at all times. You gotta [00:23:00] keep the gathering always going. Uh. But there’s not really [00:23:05] a lot of prep. I would say my, it’s, it’s changed a lot over time because at [00:23:10] first, you know, I, it wasn’t like [00:23:15] I was just doing this and it was working, and so it was like, that was whenever I had days off.[00:23:20]

[00:23:20] Like I would just do that. So it was, it wasn’t, uh, like I wasn’t trying to add [00:23:25] on other things. Right. Like I am right now, like podcast and maybe write a book. Who knows? Like all these [00:23:30] things that I’m trying to start on top of it now. It’s kind of like

[00:23:32] Rory: becoming a profession. Yes, exactly. It was just kind of a [00:23:35] hobby at It’s just a hobby.

[00:23:35] Hobby.

[00:23:36] Nick: Yes, exactly.

[00:23:37] Rory: Which makes me feel even more like crap, by the way, because, [00:23:40] um, it’s been my profession for some time and I’ve struggl I struggle so [00:23:45] much with social media. I always have. Yeah. It’s tough. Like I’ve never, it’s just never been my jam. Mm-hmm. Like, put me on a stage, no [00:23:50] problem. Put me, you know, write a book.

[00:23:52] No problem. Come up with framers. But like, there’s something about social media [00:23:55] and maybe it’s just like a mental block that I’ve had mm-hmm. Where it’s just like, I just not. [00:24:00] You know, I just don’t intuitively kind of, kind of create, and that’s part of why I’m fascinated by, by people [00:24:05] who, who do. But so, so anyways, you’re, you’re just kind of doing it on the fly, A hobby [00:24:10] you gather.

[00:24:10] Nick: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:11] Rory: Then you set up your thing, you hit record, and you’re just kinda like teaching from the [00:24:15] heart. Here’s something I learned today that was valuable.

[00:24:17] Nick: Yeah. I just wing it and, uh, [00:24:20] sometimes I’ll do multiple takes or whatever. And is anybody with you or do No. [00:24:25] You do it by yourself? Yeah. I do it by myself.

[00:24:26] I think that that’s important, honestly, I think it’s hard to do with, with [00:24:30] someone there. And I think, uh, I think especially when

[00:24:31] Rory: you’re beginning Yeah, it is. You really have to get comfortable [00:24:35] with yourself and the camera before you’re Okay. Like having a bunch of people in the room. Yeah. Like [00:24:40] looking at you.

[00:24:40] And I’ll

[00:24:40] Nick: also say something that might be a benefit I [00:24:45] hadn’t really thought of until now is, you know, on an iPhone, you’re looking at yourself [00:24:50] versus a camera, you’re staring into the lens. Mm-hmm. Like, it’s kind of nice to like [00:24:55] see. Because I think, uh, you know, one of the superpowers of a lot of creative people, [00:25:00] and I’ve seen you do it with an audience, like you’re in empathetic, like you can feel what you’re [00:25:05] making them feel in a way.

[00:25:06] Mm-hmm. I think I’m right about that. Mm-hmm. And like, [00:25:10] I can feel by watching myself deliver the line if it was a good or not. [00:25:15] Um, and I can see how it’s gonna be perceived like instantly instead of having to [00:25:20] throw it into an editor. And then it’s like, do I really wanna film it again? Not really. Um, [00:25:25] I can just go, I just go until I feel like I crushed it and then it’s like ne next one [00:25:30] if I’m, I used to never batch content.

[00:25:33] I literally used to do one every [00:25:35] morning and that was like my rhythm. But, um, recently I’ve, I’ve found benefit in [00:25:40] batching stuff ’cause I’m just doing so much other stuff. Do you change your outfit when you batch? Uh, sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:45] Yeah.

[00:25:45] Rory: Every couple videos you do it? Yeah. Yeah. Is uh, okay, so you shoot it.[00:25:50]

[00:25:50] Now tell me about the editing process. Mm-hmm. What. What, where, what are you using [00:25:55] to edit? Mm-hmm. When do you edit the videos? What are you [00:26:00] looking for in the video to edit? Like how do you, what’s your thought process there?

[00:26:04] Nick: [00:26:05] Uh, yeah. Da Vinci Resolve is what I edit in. It’s free if anyone wants to use it.

[00:26:09] It’s an [00:26:10] amazing editing software like Adobe Premiere, but it’s free. Uh, it’s taken over the [00:26:15] industry kind of. Um, and then the, the [00:26:20] thought is really, it’s that empathy thing again. Like I, I really just [00:26:25] try to use my own internal like compass of [00:26:30] do I feel something when I watch this? Or like, does this mean anything to me?

[00:26:33] That’s all, [00:26:35] that’s the only metric I have to use. And so if it feels like I, there’s [00:26:40] plenty of videos that I shoot and I’m like, that’s, I’m not posting that. Like, that’s not good enough. Um, [00:26:45] because I just want to, I really believe that like. [00:26:50] You gotta be like a trusted source and like people can lose that trust [00:26:55] really quickly on social, I think.

[00:26:57] And, uh, especially [00:27:00] with, you know, brand deals and whatnot, you gotta be very careful about that. But, uh, [00:27:05] yeah, it’s just the thought of like, is this valuable to someone else? And would this [00:27:10] hit home if I needed to hear it, you know, and did I say the right words? Could I have done it [00:27:15] better? Uh, but it’s, it’s pretty simple, you know, it’s, I just chop it up and, [00:27:20] you know, I’ll cut out some breaths if I want.

[00:27:22] Like, I try to, I try to make it as [00:27:25] engageable as possible. Like, I know my view on things is like everyone is [00:27:30] very selfish when they’re scrolling. Like we all are naturally, we just wanna be [00:27:35] entertained and, um, it needs to be. To the point [00:27:40] very fast. It ne and that’s the annoying part about the algorithm, and that’s how it’s so much different than [00:27:45] like, public speaking, I would imagine.

[00:27:46] But, um, it needs to, I need to know what [00:27:50] I’m gonna get out of this or what I’m diving into very quickly, like within the first three seconds. [00:27:55] So yeah. I want to come back. So I wanna

[00:27:56] Rory: talk about the first three seconds, but, uh, I’m gonna share a quote with you. Yeah. [00:28:00] This is not one of mine, but this is one of my favorite quotes, and [00:28:05] I really think you’re spot on about this because this, this is in the, this is how we [00:28:10] teach public speaking.

[00:28:10] Hmm. Right. It’s one of the, it’s the same kind of concept, but the, the [00:28:15] quote is from Robert Frost and he said, no tears in the writer, [00:28:20] no tears in the reader.

[00:28:21] Nick: Hmm.

[00:28:22] Rory: Right. That’s cool. Basically, like if [00:28:25] you are not feeling mm-hmm. The emotion when you are delivering [00:28:30] that piece of content, then the audience is not going to feel it [00:28:35] when they’re receiving.

[00:28:36] That piece of content that’s real. Right? And so he’s talking about it as a [00:28:40] writer. I understand that as a speaker, and now I’m hearing you like, that’s clicking for me in my head [00:28:45] to kind of do the same thing where it’s like, oh, you’re the next generation of, like, it’s just [00:28:50] the, the next generation of that is doing it through the camera of, of, and then you’re [00:28:55] watching yourself back when you’re editing going, did I feel something?

[00:28:58] Mm-hmm. That’s [00:29:00] powerful.

[00:29:00] Nick: Yeah.

[00:29:00] Rory: I love that. I love that. So talk to me about the first three seconds. What, what are the [00:29:05] mistakes? What needs to happen in the first three seconds and why is it [00:29:10] important and what do people do wrong mm-hmm. That they should stop [00:29:15] doing? Like in, in those first three seconds? What needs to happen?

[00:29:18] Nick: Yeah. [00:29:20] You know, I don’t have the for sure answer on this. Obviously. I only know what works for me. I [00:29:25] think, um, you know, I think I kind of, I start mine off [00:29:30] very similar, very often, like it’s like. Either I really like this quote or this quote, [00:29:35] hit me, or, I really love this passage because I’m giving you a sense of, you know, [00:29:40] what I’m about to present to you in a way.

[00:29:42] And, um, like I’ve, [00:29:45] I remember seeing one of your posts where it’s like, uh, I think it was like, I’ve been sober for [00:29:50] seven years, like right away. Mm-hmm. And that’s, that’s super engaging immediately. [00:29:55] Um, I think a lot of people, a lot of people like introduce themselves, which I don’t [00:30:00] think is necessary at all.

[00:30:01] Like, you definitely don’t need to do that. Um, I would just [00:30:05] say get to the, like, if I’m only gonna hear 10 seconds, how can [00:30:10] I like learn part of or learn the lesson as quick as possible? Um, [00:30:15] and so, yeah, I think that it’s just like, bring the meat to the front and then [00:30:20] explain later. Uh, that’s what I do at least.

[00:30:23] Rory: Yeah. That’s good. I that like, [00:30:25] I like that it’s basically like, deliver. The thing and then unpack it. Mm-hmm. [00:30:30] Sort of after, you know, I’ve struggled with this ’cause everyone’s like, you gotta have a hook. You gotta have a hook. But I’m like, well, what is exactly [00:30:35] is a hook. Yeah. No one seems to be able to define it.

[00:30:38] So I’m gonna share with you what my [00:30:40] premise is. Yeah. After, like, I love it. Years of struggling this, and you tell me, I [00:30:45] think what a hook is, is telling the audience what you’re about to tell them. [00:30:50]

[00:30:50] Nick: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:50] Rory: Right? So like, you’re doing that, you’re like, yeah, here’s a quote that really hit me true. Or like, [00:30:55] you know, if you’re feeling lonely, you gotta listen to this.

[00:30:57] Yep. Right. It’s like you’re telling them [00:31:00] what you’re about to tell them. Yeah. And then you, and then you tell them what, [00:31:05] what it is like, to your point about, then you kind of like un unpack it. But the, the other thing I think that [00:31:10] really works so well with your videos in particular. That also lines up with the algorithm [00:31:15] is the reveal.

[00:31:16] There’s a, there’s a formula for going viral that [00:31:20] is like, you hook ’em with something and then I want to, I, I wanna like sort of [00:31:25] see the finish thing, or I want to know a glimpse of where we’re going. But then what keeps me [00:31:30] watching is like slowly revealing it. Mm-hmm. And there’s a, there’s a natural sense of [00:31:35] that, uh, with what you do.

[00:31:37] And, uh, you, you kind of are [00:31:40] like, okay, here’s what we’re gonna talk about. And then it, and it, it’s like unwrapping. It’s almost like [00:31:45] you, you’re almost like the, the kids, the, like the Ryan’s toy review who like unwrap a [00:31:50] thing. Mm-hmm. That’s almost like what your videos are. It’s like you’re, you’re unwrapping an [00:31:55] idea, like one nugget of wisdom.

[00:31:56] Wow. I like that. That’s, that’s what it, that’s what it feels like. Yeah. That’s what it [00:32:00] feels like.

[00:32:00] Nick: That’s cool. I, while you were talking, another thing that hit me is I think a [00:32:05] hook. Can also just be enthusiasm. Like it can be an emotion. [00:32:10] So like, you know, if someone’s crying at the start of a video, you wanna know why.

[00:32:14] [00:32:15] Or if someone’s really excited, like I, I try to, the reason I try to remove all the [00:32:20] barriers that I have from filming is ’cause I want to capture it when it’s happening. So, like, [00:32:25] if I, if I read, am reading a book and like something hits [00:32:30] me, I want to go film that immediately. Mm. Because I want the enthusiasm of like, me [00:32:35] finding it captured.

[00:32:36] I don’t wanna be faking it. And so, you know, so sometimes [00:32:40] I, you know, have to kind of refine that when I’m reading it again. But, [00:32:45] uh, capture enthusiasm whenever you can or like capture an emotion whenever you can. ’cause I [00:32:50] think that’s just as much of a hook.

[00:32:51] Rory: Gosh, that’s so good, dude. But, and, and, and I [00:32:55] always use the thing of like documenting, like, uh, I forget what you call cataloging or [00:33:00] capturing or, okay.

[00:33:00] Yeah. You know, of like, oh, I wanna, I wanna share that idea. But I think I’m gonna [00:33:05] walk out of this interview and do something different as a result of hearing you. Mm-hmm. [00:33:10] That I’ve never done before. And what that is, is the moment I have the [00:33:15] inspiration Yeah. I’m gonna freaking record it. Do it. I’m not gonna edit it ’cause I don’t have time to edit it.[00:33:20]

[00:33:20] Right. You don’t have time to edit it and post the caption and push the stupid hashtag and like, [00:33:25] uh, schedule it and what’s the title and put on the cap. Like, I don’t have 20 minutes, but [00:33:30] I am going to do that as a result of what you just said because it is about that emotion. Yep. It’s [00:33:35] about, I mean this is, you know, if I had to boil the key to the, the secret to [00:33:40] professional speaking is to move the audience emotionally.

[00:33:44] Nick: Hmm.

[00:33:44] Rory: [00:33:45] That’s what you gotta do. You stand on that stage and you go, what’s the difference between those seven boring presenters? [00:33:50] And the one person that comes out and gets the standing ovation and lights the room up, they created an [00:33:55] emotional experience for the audience. But that it has to happen in that moment.

[00:33:59] [00:34:00] Dude, that’s gonna be huge. I love that. That’s gonna be huge for me to just go. Record it in the [00:34:05] moment. Yes. You feel

[00:34:06] Nick: it? Yes. That’s good. Dude, that’s, uh, thank you. I, I, [00:34:10] I just have to say like, you’re incredible at doing that on stages. [00:34:15] Like it is when I saw you at Lewis Howell’s event, like I was mind blown [00:34:20] and I was just like, I want to be that guy.

[00:34:23] I wanna be Rory [00:34:25] Vaden, and so I just gotta get your flowers in that way. Thank you. But I think that if you can capture that, [00:34:30] like, um, and I love that you said just capture it. Don’t worry about the rest. [00:34:35] Like, that’s what I do as well. I, I make it separate moments. Like if I’m [00:34:40] filming, that’s like a day, like I’m not gonna go do the whole process, um, [00:34:45] if I’m doing multiple videos or whatever, but I separate the capturing and the editing, you know, and you [00:34:50] have some guys that can help you with editing as well.

[00:34:51] So that. Makes it even better. But you know, the, the [00:34:55] thing I would say when you capture is just personally, I [00:35:00] do cinematic mode. And then just find like a place where your light just [00:35:05] spin in circles until your light on your face looks the best. It’s so easy. Like you do

[00:35:09] Rory: [00:35:10] cinematic mode on your phone.

[00:35:10] Nick: Yeah.

[00:35:11] Rory: Just that little setting at the bottom.

[00:35:13] Nick: Yeah.

[00:35:14] Rory: And that, oh [00:35:15] dude, I’m like, what, what a, what a simple tip. How am I not doing this? [00:35:20] So you just like put it in selfie mode. Yeah. And put on cinematic.

[00:35:23] Nick: Yeah. [00:35:25]

[00:35:25] Rory: That’s Why am I not doing this? That’s such a great little, now you are. That’s such a great little tip. [00:35:30] I mean, ’cause the iPhones are like, they’re incredible.

[00:35:32] Amazing, amazing. So you just, just use that. [00:35:35] But I, but I even above all of that, it’s like [00:35:40] ultimately, and I think as AI takes over, yeah. More and more people are going to be [00:35:45] seeking the human experience, the human connection. Yeah. Like the [00:35:50] human authenticity. Uh, I told you this is the first ever in person interview.[00:35:55]

[00:35:55] Mm-hmm. And it’s like totally different. This is totally different than doing it over zoom. Like it’s, it’s [00:36:00] so special and wonderful and to go, how can I decrease the amount [00:36:05] of time between when I experience the feeling or [00:36:10] have the idea and I hit record? Mm-hmm. Like that. If we can [00:36:15] shorten that, that time between those two, you capture the, [00:36:20] the human essence.

[00:36:21] Mm-hmm. Where it’s just like, you can’t act it out. You can’t recreate [00:36:25] it quite in quite the way that like, when you just, you experience it. Yeah. So I [00:36:30] love that. I love that cinematic mode. Duh. Like that’s super helpful. I think it’s just, it [00:36:35] gives a lot me a lot. It gives people like me and I think people watching like a lot of [00:36:40] confidence to have somebody like you go Yeah.

[00:36:41] Just like use cinematic mode. Yes. Like just use the free video [00:36:45] editor. Like, just use your iPhone, just use a window. Um, because there is something [00:36:50] about. We overcomplicate it thinking that because your results are so much different than [00:36:55] ours online mm-hmm. That like, your process must be [00:37:00] so much different, or the equipment is so much different.

[00:37:03] And in some ways it is, but [00:37:05] in a lot of ways it’s not. It’s very simple. It sounds, it’s like a lot of very simple things.

[00:37:08] Nick: Yeah, it is. And I, [00:37:10] I really believed you just need to be excited about what you’re sharing. Like that’s the main, [00:37:15] whatever it is. If you’re gonna share about cooking or just follow your, as far as social media creators [00:37:20] go, like, you just gotta follow your inspiration.

[00:37:23] It’s so simple, but it’s like, you [00:37:25] gotta be excited about it. You gotta be the, the reason, if you unpack [00:37:30] everybody in the social media space, like they are curators of [00:37:35] whatever knowledge they’re obsessed with, like Dr. Huberman is. Mm-hmm. He’s just the [00:37:40] most obsessed with science of all of us. So he brings us the best stuff from science.

[00:37:44] Like [00:37:45] I am one of the most obsessed with books, so I bring you the best stuff from books. Everyone’s [00:37:50] just a, like, you gotta go follow your obsession. ’cause if you’re not obsessed with it, you’re not gonna have enough [00:37:55] content to post. Like I could read or whatever all day. Um, and so it’s never [00:38:00] gonna stop for me.

[00:38:00] Like I feel like there’s no, I never worry about it stopping because [00:38:05] I just have endless ideas. ’cause it’s, it’s what I’m fascinated by. Um, so [00:38:10] that’s another tip.

[00:38:10] Rory: We, I love that because again, everybody wants to know like, how do you use [00:38:15] ai? Like, what do you use in ai? And I’m going, there’s a lot of the process stuff you can do.

[00:38:19] [00:38:20] Mm-hmm. But even the AI of like, have AI write your script and plan your [00:38:25] content, it’s like, okay, sure that can fill the thing, but [00:38:30] that will never perform in the way of when you have a human experience and something [00:38:35] lights you up. And you go, I have to just capture this. Yeah. And I think that [00:38:40] will, with the proliferation of AI and, you know, video avatars taking [00:38:45] over, it’s just like, I don’t even have to record.

[00:38:46] I can just type a prompt into a thing and like it’ll spit it out. [00:38:50] But that won’t replace like, the thing. I think that this [00:38:55] will separate people even more. Mm-hmm. As, as AI takes off is, is the human part. Um, [00:39:00] real quick, how, how much time are you spending on [00:39:05] this? So you talked a little bit about this early, like when you first started out, you were kind of like shooting a [00:39:10] video every day.

[00:39:11] Now you’re batching. Can you just give us an idea [00:39:15] of, ’cause you, you kind of post, like, you only post like a couple times a day or once a [00:39:20] day.

[00:39:20] Nick: Once a day, yeah. Or you

[00:39:21] Rory: post once a day. Yep. So that flies in the face of the whole like, [00:39:25] post five times every hour. And like, like you really don’t do that. Mm-hmm.

[00:39:29] Um, [00:39:30] so what’s the time? Commitment that you’ve made, like when you started compared to [00:39:35] like where you’re at now?

[00:39:36] Nick: Uh, it’s, it’s changed. I, I would say when I first [00:39:40] started, it was probably eight to 10 every day [00:39:45] I was doing one, but that’s it. But I mean,

[00:39:47] Rory: so like two hours Yeah. To do the whole thing. To [00:39:50] ideate, set up the camera.

[00:39:51] Yeah. Do a few takes, edit it. And

[00:39:53] Nick: that’s a, that’s a long [00:39:55] suggestion. I would say an hour and a half max. But yeah, to edit it as well. So, [00:40:00] but you know, like I said, the, the inspiration and the, [00:40:05] the reading and that stuff, like, that’s just my natural obsession. So you could count that as work, you [00:40:10] know, the, the searching for answers and whatnot.

[00:40:12] So I don’t know how much of that [00:40:15] is considered working on it, but these days, like. I have to [00:40:20] go on, I’m going on a friend’s trip tomorrow and uh, I’m gonna be gone for like five [00:40:25] days. So what I did is I took like two days of filming from eight to [00:40:30] 10:00 AM eight to 10:00 AM and then I edited for probably four hours.

[00:40:34] So that’s like [00:40:35] eight hours and I have like eight posts or whatever. They’re all scheduled. I don’t have to like even [00:40:40] look at my phone for the next five days.

[00:40:41] Rory: So you’re still editing everything yourself? [00:40:45] Yeah. Posting everything yourself. Yeah. Um, reply to all the comments yourself, [00:40:50] like,

[00:40:50] Nick: yeah, I don’t really do that anymore.

[00:40:51] I mean some, but it’s, I’ve definitely had [00:40:55] to decide what is more important, like being present or [00:41:00] engaging in that all the time. You know, at first it’s really, it’s obviously very exciting to, [00:41:05] exciting to be validated by other humans and like, you know, have videos go crazy or [00:41:10] whatever, but just like anything, like the excitement wears off of that feeling [00:41:15] and uh, so I kind of just try to really.

[00:41:18] Separate myself [00:41:20] from my phone when I can, because I don’t want to get caught up in that. Like, you know, my wife’s really [00:41:25] good about, um, asking me to be present with her at times, and it’s really [00:41:30] helpful for me to have that. But, but yes, doing everything by myself. I think about [00:41:35] outsourcing it at this point, but I don’t know, I, it’s, it’s [00:41:40] hard for me to say.

[00:41:41] Because I, I’m so specific on like, what makes me feel something, and that’s [00:41:45] the only metric I’m using. It’s like, would that person have the same metric of like when they’re editing [00:41:50] and then Right. Uh, you know, the caption and then the, the [00:41:55] song a lot of times is a big part for me too.

[00:41:57] Rory: Oh, selecting the track that’s like underneath it.

[00:41:59] Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] Yeah. That’s, so you spend time, so this is like a 90 minute process for one [00:42:05] 62nd clip that you post. Yep. Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s valuable for people to know. Yeah. Like, you’re not [00:42:10] just like throwing it up there. No, no. I mean, you’re kind of winging it a little bit [00:42:15] on the recording. Yes. But you’re not winging, you’re not just winging this

[00:42:18] Nick: Yes.

[00:42:18] The recording. [00:42:20] You need to remove the barrier of needing it to be perfect and just keep going, keep going. [00:42:25] Like, do it a couple times. Do it three times. Do it four times and then you can chop it up [00:42:30] however you need to. But, um, yes. After the fact, you kind of, you [00:42:35] obviously gotta be intentional about it, but yeah.

[00:42:37] Rory: Okay. So that becomes a lot of [00:42:40] time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How do you make money?

[00:42:42] Nick: Yeah, great question. I mean, because it’s like, I’m still trying to figure that [00:42:45] out. That’s why I’m here to hang out with you. I mean, yeah, like, well, [00:42:50]

[00:42:50] Rory: I mean, to whatever extent you can share, because I think, yeah. There’s also a thing that people go, oh, [00:42:55] you have million, 2 million followers.

[00:42:57] Like, yep. You must be flying private jets and [00:43:00] like do it doing the thing. So like give us a little insight into what actually [00:43:05] produces money and what doesn’t really make money and like mm-hmm. How do you find your way [00:43:10] there as a creator? Because it starts to, you know, you have an audience and now it’s kinda like you sort of [00:43:15] created an obligation to serve them.

[00:43:16] Not that you have to, but it’s like you gotta hit the schedule every day. Mm-hmm. [00:43:20] Otherwise they forget about you. Mm-hmm. But like, no one’s paying you there to, paying you to be there and [00:43:25] do it, so you gotta do it, but then like, you gotta feed your family.

[00:43:28] Nick: Yep. I still fly [00:43:30] Southwest, so we’re doing that. Um, but, uh, so yeah, so I’ve [00:43:35] taken a little bit of a different approach to it where.

[00:43:37] Um, so I still have never taken a brand [00:43:40] deal, which is, uh, pretty cool. And I’m, you know, I’m, I’m proud of that in a way [00:43:45] because, you know, I heard an Alex Hormoze quote that was like, if you can just provide value for [00:43:50] two years without asking for anything in return, like you’ll never have to work again in your life.

[00:43:54] And [00:43:55] so I just took that to heart and I just went for it. And, uh, [00:44:00] I, I created a couple different avenues of revenue. One, [00:44:05] my main one is actually this journal that I created to help people connect with [00:44:10] Jesus. It’s pretty cool. Hmm. Um, it’s, it’s basically like four [00:44:15] questions in the morning, three questions at night, just to kind of set an intention for the day.

[00:44:19] How can you show [00:44:20] up more like Jesus? What are three things you, you’re praying for today? Three things you’re grateful for. [00:44:25] Um, and I’ve had a lot of success with that on, on Amazon and TikTok. And then

[00:44:29] Rory: so [00:44:30] people, so your fan base, you let ’em know that every once in a while, Hey, I’ve got this, I’ve got a journal.[00:44:35]

[00:44:35] People pop over, they buy it, and then you’re just making royalties or whatever. Now, when you sell it on [00:44:40] TikTok, you’re fulfilling it directly, so you’re Yep. You’re, whatever your wholesale, whatever the cost of [00:44:45] goods are, you keep the rest. Yeah. And then on Amazon, you get whatever the percentage is after they take their [00:44:50] cut.

[00:44:50] Nick: Yep, exactly. So it’s like self-publishing essentially. Okay. Um, and so that’s, that’s [00:44:55] one source. And then, uh, I’ve got a card game coming out in like a month. [00:45:00] That’s been a wild, interesting. Uh, it’s awesome. But the man, first thing I’ve ever [00:45:05] bought from China, bad timing for me. Yeah. Um, but I think, I think we’ll be all right on the [00:45:10] terrace.

[00:45:10] We’ll see. But, uh, and then I made a course actually [00:45:15] on social media for Impact. So like my, uh, you know, it was, it was the idea of how can [00:45:20] you use social media for good uhhuh? Um, and then it’s all the tips and tricks that, you know, [00:45:25] how I edit, how I, um, how I do everything basically, you know, it’s, it, [00:45:30] you can see it all.

[00:45:30] So it’s about like three hours of content. And so, and

[00:45:33] Rory: you just share that. So you [00:45:35] just kind of drop that in your captions? A video every once in a while. Yeah. In your stories maybe?

[00:45:39] Nick: [00:45:40] Yeah, yeah. Uh, I have like a website maybe in my stories. I am very [00:45:45] like, what’s the website? Uh, Nicholas john.co. Yeah.

[00:45:48] Rory: And then you just click on courses or whatever.

[00:45:49] [00:45:50] Yep. Yeah. Interesting.

[00:45:51] Nick: I’m very bad at asking for money or, [00:45:55] uh, at promoting something that involves money. Like it’s still something I have to over. I know. That’s, I [00:46:00] had to stop to

Ep 587: Who First Strategy | Vincent Phamvan Recap

[00:00:00] AJ: It’s what, not who, in a world [00:00:05] where marketing strategists and marketing agencies [00:00:10] are talking about where to spend on time online and where do you put your paid [00:00:15] traffic behind, and what ads should you be doing? And, you know, how quickly you should be [00:00:20] cutting your camera and how many minutes it should be and what are the initial statements.[00:00:25]

[00:00:25] That you should stay and how many CTA should you have in a world [00:00:30] full of that? That’s a lot of the, what What I am encouraging you to [00:00:35] do as you build your personal brand is to have a who first [00:00:40] strategy, not a where first strategy and not a what First strategy. See a [00:00:45] what? First strategy is what should I be doing?

[00:00:49] What should [00:00:50] I be posting? What, you know, different [00:00:55] medium. Should I be on? What platform should I be on? It’s a what focused [00:01:00] strategy. And then there’s the where, right? There’s, Hey, where should I spend my [00:01:05] time online? Where should I invest my time, money, and re resources? [00:01:10] Right? Where should I go to find, you know, x, y, and z [00:01:15] content or audiences or offers?

[00:01:16] Where should I go to learn? There’s a lot of what. [00:01:20] And there’s a lot of wear. In the world of marketing, digital marketing today, [00:01:25] and as you build your personal brand, what I’m encouraging you to do is to not ignore those things. [00:01:30] They just come second or third to the most [00:01:35] important strategy, which is who.

[00:01:38] So let’s talk about the who for a second. [00:01:40] What is a who first strategy? A who First strategy. [00:01:45] Is, who are you trying to reach? Who is the person [00:01:50] that you feel called to serve in this world with your message? Because that’s what you’re doing this [00:01:55] for after all, right? You’re not doing all of this content creation.

[00:01:58] You’re not sitting in a [00:02:00] chair behind a camera on a day like today, as I am right now, just so I can [00:02:05] work the algorithm. I’m not doing it just to get likes and comments. I’m not doing it [00:02:10] just for conversion purposes. I’m doing it because I believe. That there are [00:02:15] messages that need to be shared because there are messages that need to be heard [00:02:20] and they can only be shared by certain individuals and they can only be heard by certain individuals [00:02:25] to help them change their life.

[00:02:27] I believe that people [00:02:30] not platforms have the ability to change lives. And [00:02:35] sometimes it’s a, a, a simple act of kindness. Sometimes it’s a [00:02:40] quote that you just needed to hear in that right moment. Sometimes it’s you showing up and being [00:02:45] vulnerable and sharing the hard parts of your story so that other people know that they’re not alone, [00:02:50] that there are other people like them who have felt that way, been through what they’ve been through, and that there [00:02:55] is light at the end of the tunnel.

[00:02:57] Right. There is joy on the other side [00:03:00] that that. Is a who first strategy that is going, Hey, I [00:03:05] have this calling on my heart for a reason. And we believe that that reason is [00:03:10] because there is someone else out there who needs you. That [00:03:15] is the who that I’m talking about. And if you get the who right in a who for [00:03:20] strategy, the what and the where, become increasingly more clear.[00:03:25]

[00:03:25] Because here’s what I’m telling you, if you know. Exactly [00:03:30] who you’re trying to reach. Then you know what they need to hear. [00:03:35] You know, what questions they need answered, you know, what titles would [00:03:40] attract them, you know, what ads they would click on, right? So all those other [00:03:45] things, I’m not saying they’re not important, and the digital ecosystem that we live in today, I, I think they’re [00:03:50] vital.

[00:03:50] I think they’re necessary. They’re just not first. It’s a who [00:03:55] strategy first to go. Who needs this message and [00:04:00] how do they need to hear it, and what platform do they need to hear it on? [00:04:05] And where do I need to be so they can hear it? What and where are [00:04:10] subservient to the who, but the more clear that you get on the who, such [00:04:15] as what gender are they?

[00:04:16] What age are they? What socioeconomic status are [00:04:20] they? What geography do they live in? What are their dreams? What are their fears? What [00:04:25] are their goals? What questions? Keep them up at night? What are their fears? Right? What? What are [00:04:30] their limiting beliefs? Right. What are they trying to achieve? What have they been through that [00:04:35] they’re too afraid to tell anyone?

[00:04:36] What are the dreams that feel so big and so impossible that they’re embarrassed to [00:04:40] admit them? What questions do they have that they never ask because they’re afraid they’ll look stupid, [00:04:45] right? That is your who. It’s not just how much money [00:04:50] do they make and what titles do they have. Demographics are important.

[00:04:52] They’re necessary, but the [00:04:55] psychographics of your who are equally as important. And I’ll tell you this, [00:05:00] a who first strategy should be where you spend the most time. Because if [00:05:05] you spend the most foundational time on building out this perfect avatar, this [00:05:10] ideal person, not persons, not people, but person, if [00:05:15] you build that out, if there’s one, there’s likely more than one.

[00:05:19] But the [00:05:20] more that you know the heart and the mind behind the person, the who that you’re going [00:05:25] after, everything else comes into focus, I. The other things are [00:05:30] unclear when your who is unclear. But the more [00:05:35] clarity you have on the who, the easier it is to answer all of the what [00:05:40] questions and the where questions.

[00:05:41] Because you know where they spend on time, time online, you know [00:05:45] what platforms they visit, you know how often they visit those platforms and how long they stay on their [00:05:50] platforms that you know, if they like to read versus watch, you know, if they like to watch versus [00:05:55] listen, you know, if they’re more into podcasts versus short form content.

[00:05:59] You know, all those [00:06:00] things when you spend the time necessary, I. To get intimately [00:06:05] acquainted with the who, and here’s the good news for you. Most [00:06:10] of us, we already know the who intimately because the who is the [00:06:15] person that we used to be. And it’s the reason why that you are most [00:06:20] powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were.

[00:06:23] Because you know what it’s like to be [00:06:25] you. You know what it’s like to have those questions, those fears, those dreams, [00:06:30] and. You know what it’s like on the other side, right? You didn’t get [00:06:35] to where you are today and you don’t have this calling on your life, and you don’t have this message in your heart for [00:06:40] yourself.

[00:06:40] You have it so that you can go back and share it with all the people that [00:06:45] need to hear it where they are today, where you were a year ago, or five years ago, or 10 years, or even 20 [00:06:50] years ago, or maybe even the person that you were yesterday. You [00:06:55] have that calling. Right that pull in your heart because there is someone else who is [00:07:00] calling to you.

[00:07:01] That is a hoofer strategy and it’s the part that we [00:07:05] often wanna skip over. We wanna answer the fill in the blanks and we wanna move on, [00:07:10] but everything else is dependent on a hoofer strategy. So if you spend the [00:07:15] right time figuring out who, who is my audience? Who is my avatar, who is my [00:07:20] person? The what comes into focus and the where becomes obvious, but the [00:07:25] who has to come first.

Ep 586: Leveraging Digital Marketing, AI, and Personal Brand Apps for Brand Growth | Vincent Phamvan

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. Today’s one of those special [00:00:05] days where I get to introduce a good friend, and not only a friend, but [00:00:10] also, uh, someone that we are a client of. And so, uh, I’m so excited to have you [00:00:15] on the show today, Vincent, and before I formally introduce you, as I always do, for [00:00:20] anyone who’s listening, I wanna tell everyone a couple of reasons why I think that this.[00:00:25]

[00:00:25] It’s one of those universal episodes applicable to anyone. Number one, [00:00:30] the trends in technology are changing at so [00:00:35] fast, exponential rate that it’s literally one of those things, like if you’re not [00:00:40] watching it, it will pass you by. Mm-hmm. So we’re gonna talk a lot about what are those trends, what has [00:00:45] changed over the last five years.

[00:00:47] More importantly, what do you need to know right [00:00:50] now in the digital space to capitalize on this content [00:00:55] economy that we’re living in? So that’s the first thing. Mm-hmm. That is why it is applicable to anyone. If you’re online, this will [00:01:00] have application to you. Number two, we’re gonna talk about the rise of the personal [00:01:05] brand, uh, and what that really means, and.

[00:01:08] What is a personal brand, [00:01:10] what people think it is, but also how does that influence, you know, marketing [00:01:15] and consumer behavior today? So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that. And then number three, we’re gonna talk about the [00:01:20] biggest topic that everyone is talking about, no matter who you are, where you are, the, the voice [00:01:25] of AI and automation, and how that, uh, applies to your business today.

[00:01:29] [00:01:30] So as you guys are listening and deciding, is this one of those episodes, that’s for me. Now, you [00:01:35] know that this is. For you, right? So that’s why you need to stick around, uh, and [00:01:40] listen to the entire show. But now let me introduce you to my good friend. Now I can give you a casual [00:01:45] introduction of Vincent and why I think he’s wicked smart and so helpful.

[00:01:49] [00:01:50] But his team is also just as helpful. Uh, there’s very few vendors that I would [00:01:55] raise two hands and say. Has been a pleasure to work with from top to bottom. And [00:02:00] Vincent’s Company, Viton is one of those companies, but he also has lots of other accolades. So let me [00:02:05] give you a quick formal, uh, a formal introduction and then we’ll get going.[00:02:10]

[00:02:10] First and foremost, Vincent is the founder and CEO. He’s the owner of [00:02:15] Viton, which is a mobile app company, uh, and in our world [00:02:20] specifically and uniquely designed to help build personal brand apps, which I think is [00:02:25] just. Amazing, and we’re gonna talk a lot about that today. But more than that, uh, he is a [00:02:30] three time, uh, CMO, uh, different, uh, technology companies, [00:02:35] healthcare companies.

[00:02:36] Uh, he’s done anything from ai, enterprise startups [00:02:40] to, uh, creating, uh, digital events in the, uh, the digital landscape [00:02:45] when, when the pandemic shut down everything. Vincent was one of the few pioneers who took [00:02:50] everything online and built online communities. Kind of [00:02:55] overnight. He’s also, uh, has an amazing personal brand of his own, and I love that.

[00:02:59] [00:03:00] He’s a dad of two girls. He’s a girl, dad. Uh, and I get to see his girls every Sunday at [00:03:05] church. And honestly, you’re just an awesome dude. And so I’m so excited to [00:03:10] have you. Welcome to the show.

[00:03:11] vincent: Thanks so much, aj. It’s. Awesome being here and you know, [00:03:15] likewise with you and the BBG team, it has been like such a pleasure to be able to work with the [00:03:20] team and every single time that we come to one of the BBG events I learned so much.

[00:03:24] Just, [00:03:25] you know, being an ear on the wall, being able to just hear, but you know, the community has [00:03:30] just been incredible. Um, you mentioned inviting a little bit and. Uh, we don’t talk [00:03:35] externally a a lot about our mission, but our mission is to help people live [00:03:40] healthier, happier lives. Mm-hmm. And we do a lot of that work.

[00:03:43] You know, we’re a technology company. [00:03:45] We build mobile apps, we integrate AI into mobile apps, but we accomplish that work through [00:03:50] partnerships with companies like yours and like with the BBG, um, [00:03:55] folks and community because our work just amplifies and allows them [00:04:00] to be able to get their message out there.

[00:04:02] Yeah, and you know what? And that’s what marketing should do, [00:04:05] good marketing should do just what you said. Mm-hmm. It’s to help people live healthier, [00:04:10] happier, more productive lives, and to get messages out into the world. And I feel [00:04:15] like, at least in the last, I’ll call it 10 years, that there has been [00:04:20] such an oversaturation of bad marketing.

[00:04:23] vincent: There’s a lot of noise out there.

[00:04:24] There’s a lot of [00:04:25] noise. And maybe bad is a strong word, but I would say. Uh, [00:04:30] not aligned marketing with mm-hmm. The way that you do it. And so I, I’d love to start with this question ’cause [00:04:35] I think it’s really important to set the tone Yeah. For where we are today and I think where we’re all [00:04:40] heading.

[00:04:40] Mm-hmm. What would you say are some of like the biggest mistakes or [00:04:45] trends or challenges that you’ve seen in the marketing space in the last five years that have brought us [00:04:50] to where we are today with ai?

[00:04:51] vincent: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. Like there are things in marketing that are, [00:04:55] that will always be.

[00:04:57] Good messaging, good copywriting will [00:05:00] always be important to marketing and that, like I take a look at marketing strategies [00:05:05] versus marketing tactics. I. Marketing tactics change all the time, right? When [00:05:10] you look backwards and you take a look at 10 years ago, Facebook groups had massive [00:05:15] visibility. You saw businesses building off of these Facebook groups that had a hundred [00:05:20] thousand, 200,000 people, and a lot of reach.

[00:05:22] So the number one thing is really the [00:05:25] algorithms from the large social media companies are shifting and changing. [00:05:30] Constantly and the platforms themselves are shifting and changing as well. They’ve [00:05:35] consolidated a little bit with meta purchasing and like growing through acquisition, [00:05:40] but when you take a look at earlier this year, I think the TikTok ban was like the scariest and [00:05:45] also like the biggest moment.

[00:05:47] Yeah. Where you say. Hey, some people have built [00:05:50] literally millions, their millions entire business, their entire business off of TikTok, and you see the [00:05:55] de platforming that has happened. You know, there’s never been real proof of a shadow [00:06:00] ban, but you hear all the time people talking about, you know, one day my [00:06:05] reach just fundamentally changed overnight.

[00:06:07] So I would say that de platforming the [00:06:10] algorithm shifts are the number one thing that has changed. You know, we have been told for forever. [00:06:15] That you should own your audience, build an email list. But the big change [00:06:20] now with the new iPhone is AI is built into the fundamental hardware and software [00:06:25] of the new iPhones.

[00:06:26] Your, uh, email preview, right, that first line of an email [00:06:30] newsletter is now an AI summary. Your inbox is going, which quite

[00:06:33] honestly, I despise. Yeah. I [00:06:35] hate that. I’m like, that is not what I want. I’m so, every time I look at my phone, I’m like, what am I, what am I looking at? Yeah. [00:06:40]

[00:06:40] vincent: What am I, what am I reading at here?

[00:06:41] But that’s just

[00:06:41] the beginning of, yeah, that’s the beginning of

[00:06:43] vincent: it. Right. And so [00:06:45] emails now have an algorithm because it’s being sorted into your primary, your updates, your [00:06:50] promotion tab, and even text messages from unknown numbers are being sorted into on [00:06:55] iMessage. A different folder as well. And so the ability to be [00:07:00] able to communicate and reach your audience directly, whether you are a [00:07:05] local brick and mortar.

[00:07:06] And you have information that you want to be able to send [00:07:10] out about specials, about new staff members, about promotions, about retreats, and all of that [00:07:15] information, or whether you’re building an online business is the exact same thing. [00:07:20] You want the ability to be able to reach your audience as directly as much as possible and for you [00:07:25] to be able to own and control that relationship.

[00:07:27] Now, we’ve talked about like AI in terms of. Um, [00:07:30] the impact that it’s having on your business, but AI can also be a huge tailwind as [00:07:35] well. Mm-hmm. If your business is leveraging it. And so, you know, the three [00:07:40] bus biggest trends and changes are these platform and algorithm changes the [00:07:45] way that you communicate directly with your community.

[00:07:48] And then the third one [00:07:50] is how you’re leveraging AI or not leveraging ai.

[00:07:53] Yeah. You know, that’s interesting [00:07:55] because I think, uh, I’d like to hit each of those just really quickly. Mm-hmm. Individually. Mm-hmm. For a little bit more [00:08:00] context. Um, and this could easily just how everyone knows, be an eight hour interview, and we’re gonna cram it into [00:08:05] like 55 minutes.

[00:08:06] But, uh, I, I think it’s, this algorithm [00:08:10] conversation is something that has impacted everyone and it’s likely not [00:08:15] going to, to stop changing. Like it’s going to keep changing. [00:08:20] Uh, what do, what do we do about that?

[00:08:21] vincent: I think the biggest thing is just understanding the trends in the [00:08:25] marketplace because. If, if you take a look at the adoption curve of [00:08:30] any technology, you know the, there is a place where you will have early [00:08:35] adopters that will adopt something.

[00:08:36] The biggest example I think of early adopters adopting something [00:08:40] quickly was clubhouse. Like, remember the week where clubhouse was just like everywhere that [00:08:45] everywhere was, and then just

[00:08:45] as quickly went away and then just as quickly

[00:08:47] vincent: went away. The question is, is [00:08:50] like. How do you take a look at platforms and changes and you say, [00:08:55] Hey, clubhouse had its moment right, but when it went [00:09:00] away, how do you, how do you not let that become the distraction to your life and business, [00:09:05] whereas you have other instances like podcasting as a trend, or [00:09:10] TikTok as a trend.

[00:09:11] Where you say, Hey, this is not just early adopters. This has the [00:09:15] potential to become mainstream and you see the value in it. And to [00:09:20] ensure that you are understanding how you can jump on that wave [00:09:25] and on that trend, once you start taking a look at those [00:09:30] trends, the next step is to take a look in your funnel.

[00:09:33] So for anybody [00:09:35] who’s not a marketer, by trade, you know, in your marketing funnel, at the top of the funnel, you have [00:09:40] awareness. At the bottom of the funnel, you have your conversions or your purchases, and you have to take [00:09:45] a look at how that content strategy fits into your overall [00:09:50] funnel. Today we are in a moment where, at the top of the funnel, it’s all about shorts.

[00:09:54] Yeah,

[00:09:54] vincent: and [00:09:55] all about shorts means we’re talking about Instagram reels, we’re talking about tiktoks, and we’re talking about YouTube shorts. [00:10:00] You know, YouTube shorts are showing up in Google searches. Tiktoks and [00:10:05] Instagram reels have crazy virality. If your messaging resonates mm-hmm. [00:10:10] With folks online, but those are not conversion events.

[00:10:13] The conversion events [00:10:15] happen towards the bottom of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel is where you don’t just go broad, you [00:10:20] go deep.

[00:10:20] Yeah.

[00:10:21] vincent: And going deep means long form content like podcasts [00:10:25] going deep means the eBooks that are actually still working. If the eBooks have a lot [00:10:30] of value.

[00:10:31] Yeah.

[00:10:31] vincent: Where you can walk somebody through that journey.

[00:10:34] It’s interesting as [00:10:35] you say that because you said earlier there’s a difference between marketing strategies and like marketing tactics. [00:10:40] Mm-hmm. And that’s what you’re talking about right now. Yeah. It’s like, uh, I think a lot of us don’t have [00:10:45] a good marketing strategy, right? We’re being tempted with all the tactics to [00:10:50] grow followings.

[00:10:51] Mm-hmm. And, you know, go viral without understanding. Like, no, there’s a [00:10:55] conversion strategy that at the end of the day, that’s what marketing is doing. It’s driving awareness. [00:11:00] And driving them to make a decision on something. And that’s a strategy that has to be in [00:11:05] place. Yes. Before all these other things happen.

[00:11:07] vincent: Absolutely. Because a lot of a question [00:11:10] that a lot of early entrepreneurs ask is like, where should I be? Right?

[00:11:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:14] vincent: And it’s, [00:11:15] and the where should I be? Is, is the quintessential marketing tactic [00:11:20] question because it’s asking what channel, what social media channel should I be on? And, you [00:11:25] know, the, the irony of the whole thing is, like, my favorite answer to that is wherever you’re the most [00:11:30] comfortable, right?

[00:11:31] Wherever you’re the most comfortable is going to be the channel where you’re going to [00:11:35] enjoy creating content the most. And you have the best [00:11:40] chance of sustainably doing that over the course of a year. Because [00:11:45] a year putting out content in the same channel is about what it takes.

[00:11:49] Mm.

[00:11:49] vincent: To [00:11:50] be able to start growing your community, that community doesn’t need to be massive.

[00:11:54] [00:11:55] Right. I, uh, online there’s like the concept of the thousand true fans that many of us [00:12:00] have heard about, where you can have a thousand people that are really passionate about what you’re doing. And this is not my concept. [00:12:05] This is, you know, a concept that is taught pretty frequently, but that could be on substack.

[00:12:09] [00:12:10] Right. If you are not a camera person, you’re not a video person, it could be substack. If you [00:12:15] are comfortable with audio, that could be in podcast format. But I think the biggest piece though [00:12:20] is how you take a look at how creating that long form content goes into a [00:12:25] flywheel. I. And that flywheel results in other different types of [00:12:30] content coming out of it, right?

[00:12:31] Yeah. And you, you see companies like BBG doing this really well where this [00:12:35] long form podcast will get clipped into smaller clips. It’ll get turned, those clips [00:12:40] can get turned into blog posts. Those blog posts can turn into captions. And so. [00:12:45] The long form content is really great for being able to batch [00:12:50] content.

[00:12:50] The short, the shorter content is how you start reaching people [00:12:55] top of funnel.

[00:12:55] Yeah, no, I think that’s so good. And that’s back to the strategy. Mm-hmm. And we all need a [00:13:00] strategy in place before we just. Throw mud on a wall and it’s like, why isn’t it working? [00:13:05] Well, it takes work for it to work. Yeah, it takes work.

[00:13:08] Um, now this AI [00:13:10] component of it, because I think the fact that ai, we don’t even have the option to use it, and I think [00:13:15] that’s what I want everyone to grasp right now in what Vincent said earlier, is that [00:13:20] truly it’s being hardwired into the new iPhones, and that’s not the only [00:13:25] place. Mm-hmm. It’s now coming as an a templated part of.

[00:13:29] [00:13:30] Everyday use business tools. Yes. This is not something we get to choose to use. This isn’t [00:13:35] something that we’re like, oh no, it’s being fed to us now. Mm-hmm. It’s not an option. It’s [00:13:40] happening all around us. And so there are still some people who are pretty adverse [00:13:45] to it. Yep. Uh, just like there are still people adverse to social media and probably some that are [00:13:50] still adverse to email, surprisingly.

[00:13:52] Um, but. I think the the point is, is [00:13:55] no, it is happening. It is here. This isn’t something we’re talking about. It’s not a choice we have. And [00:14:00] so in this world of ai, what would you say when it comes to [00:14:05] marketing and personal brands, like what’s the number one thing that all of [00:14:10] us listening and selfishly me, what do we need to know?

[00:14:14] [00:14:15] What do we need to embrace? What do we need to be proactive about when it comes to utilizing [00:14:20] ai?

[00:14:20] vincent: I think that’s such a great question. I think I see AI as like the great [00:14:25] equalizer.

[00:14:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:26] vincent: And what I mean by that is there are technology [00:14:30] trends that allow solopreneurs, local businesses, small businesses. [00:14:35] To be able to compete on the same world stage as large [00:14:40] corporations.

[00:14:40] AI is one of those enablers, and what I mean by that is [00:14:45] in 2017, I was the CMO of a SaaS startup, a software company [00:14:50] based in San Francisco. We were venture-backed and we were using AI back in [00:14:55] 2017 to be able to answer customer service tickets on behalf of our clients. [00:15:00] With a success rate of like 70% of tickets being solved by [00:15:05] ai.

[00:15:05] And you know, back then that was something that, like your [00:15:10] average person had no idea that large brands could even do that. [00:15:15] And that was a good four or five years before Chat G gt [00:15:20]

[00:15:20] totally, yeah.

[00:15:20] vincent: Hit the market, right? What chat GPT did was not new [00:15:25] technology necessarily. Because large corporations always had data scientists, [00:15:30] always had software engineers to be able to automate that type of stuff.

[00:15:33] What large language [00:15:35] models have done is actually make that accessible to

[00:15:38] everybody,

[00:15:39] vincent: to small and [00:15:40] medium sized businesses.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:41] vincent: Mm-hmm. And that is something that is [00:15:45] incredibly wild, right? When you take a look at what large companies used [00:15:50] to do was make these large investments in technology. [00:15:55] And it allows them to be able to compete in a completely different way than normal [00:16:00] companies.

[00:16:00] In the personal brand space, Kim Kardashian put out her first mobile app [00:16:05] in 2014. Mr. Beast put out his first mobile app in [00:16:10] 2020. Tony Robbins put out his first mobile app, uh, in I [00:16:15] think two years later. I wanna say it was 2022. And so when you’re taking a look at [00:16:20] Yeah, individuals that are putting together personal brands.

[00:16:23] You look at that upstream and you’re [00:16:25] just like, well, you know, all of them are doing it. Why I think is the number one [00:16:30] question, and that why has a lot to do with the filtering [00:16:35] and the AI and the algorithms because. They’re seeing the [00:16:40] trends of what’s happening in email marketing with open rates lingering around 31% and [00:16:45] declining every single day.

[00:16:46] All of us are getting hundreds of [00:16:50] emails a day and we know that. And the mobile apps allow them to be able to send push [00:16:55] notifications and engage like never before. Right? And so [00:17:00] even when you take a look for anybody who’s running online businesses and is familiar with launches. [00:17:05] So launching is a concept where you’re providing value, you’re nurturing your audience.

[00:17:09] You [00:17:10] might have some type of live event, and then after that you might open up a membership. [00:17:15] You know, launches historically have been done through email marketing where you would [00:17:20] send emails. Then after that we saw that some people started launching [00:17:25] with social media and email. And you know, some of the best launches today [00:17:30] are actually happening with online events that occur in a mobile app.

[00:17:34] [00:17:35] And it’s push notifications, social media, and email. And this [00:17:40] was something that wasn’t. Accessible in the past, and we’re starting to [00:17:45] see companies being able to bring this type of technology and making it available to [00:17:50] anybody.

[00:17:50] You know, it’s interesting because you just mentioned like so many different channels, [00:17:55] right?

[00:17:55] Yeah. And it’s like, and I think that’s what’s overwhelming. Mm-hmm. For someone who’s, you know, the [00:18:00] solopreneur or they have a really small team. Yeah. Or they’re just starting out and it’s like, oh my gosh. [00:18:05] You just talking about email marketing and now there’s social media, and then there’s all the different social media platforms.

[00:18:09] Yep. And now there’s [00:18:10] personal brand apps. And so if you were to narrow it down right, to like what are the [00:18:15] most fundamental and successful marketing channels [00:18:20] that someone should start with?

[00:18:22] vincent: Yep.

[00:18:22] What would you say?

[00:18:23] vincent: I think start with [00:18:25] is, is the answer that I had earlier, which is where you’re the most comfortable.

[00:18:28] Right. I think. [00:18:30] If I was to take a look second to where you’re the most comfortable, I would say it [00:18:35] is, where is your avatar, your ideal customer? Where are they hanging out already today?

[00:18:39] [00:18:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:18:40] vincent: And where they’re hanging out already today is very different. [00:18:45] I mean, there are some communities that build off a print interest.

[00:18:47] I have not used Pinterest since, I [00:18:50] think my wife and I got married almost 10 years ago because that was where our wedding, you know, Pinterest [00:18:55] board was. But you know, I know somebody who, uh, they run, [00:19:00] um, they basically have like your ultimate Walt [00:19:05] Disney World guide and that actually is a business that gets a [00:19:10] lot of their business from organic Pinterest.

[00:19:13] Um, I built an app that’s [00:19:15] called Dad’s Club. So you mentioned kind of like my, you know, my passion there at trying to [00:19:20] become the best father that I possibly can be. And I’m not a parenting expert. I’m just like trying to figure it out [00:19:25] every single day doing the best that I can. When I launched the Parents’ Club app, I actually had [00:19:30] QR code flyers and pediatrician offices.

[00:19:34] Because that’s [00:19:35] where my ideal avatar was, was it was a new dad who was going [00:19:40] to either prenatal visits or, you know, newborn, uh, visits at the pediatrician’s [00:19:45] office. And so I think that’s where online can get complicated with a [00:19:50] lot of the funnels, but fundamentally it goes to, it’s a lot easier to go to where your audience [00:19:55] is as opposed to try to get them to come to you.

[00:19:57] Oh, I love that. And I think that’s good. Start with where you’re most comfortable. [00:20:00] Then two, go to where your avatar is, right? Mm-hmm. You gotta go to where your audience is, wherever that [00:20:05] may be. Yeah. Uh, and I was just, I was cracking up internally because you mentioned Pinterest, and that’s [00:20:10] how I am with TikTok.

[00:20:10] It’s like people are like, Hey, they’re always sending me TikTok videos. Hey, you gotta watch [00:20:15] this video. I’m like, I can’t see it. I don’t have an account. Yeah. And they’re like, [00:20:20] why? And I’m like, it’s just not my place. Like my avatar is not there [00:20:25] and I’m not comfortable on the platform. Right. Yeah. So it’s like I’m, I’m not present there.

[00:20:28] Totally. I can’t, can’t [00:20:30] see anything there. And I think there’s a lot of truth to that is one, you gotta enjoy what you’re doing, otherwise you’re not gonna do it. [00:20:35] Um, and two, most importantly, your avatar has to be there in order for you to actually do the thing you’re [00:20:40] trying to do. Yeah. Which is reach the person that you’re trying to serve.

[00:20:43] Yep. Um, so I think that’s really [00:20:45] wise And sage advice. Uh, what are some of the common mistakes that you see [00:20:50] personal brands making when it comes to. All that we’re talking about.

[00:20:54] vincent: Yeah, I [00:20:55] think the, one of the most common mistakes is not figuring out who you’re serving [00:21:00] and trying to be everything to everybody.

[00:21:03] You know, that that ends up [00:21:05] being something that’s really dangerous. And, you know, for anybody listening to this podcast, a [00:21:10] likely already knows brand Builders Group BBG, you know, has brand DNA [00:21:15] as a portion of, you know, how do you figure out who to [00:21:20] best serve? To take a look at the messaging to be able to serve that person [00:21:25] well.

[00:21:25] And for all of our folks who are building personal brand apps, this is [00:21:30] something that we absolutely recommend early on because you know [00:21:35] your story, you have a story in terms of who you are and the transformation that you’ve [00:21:40] had in your life. And being able to have that message [00:21:45] really resonate with somebody else.

[00:21:47] Um, there are components of. [00:21:50] You know, that personal story, how you felt and how you feel now that [00:21:55] needs to be able to end up in your messaging. And today, you know, the, [00:22:00] this is where leveraging the AI can really, really help in whether it’s [00:22:05] doing the research or, uh, tactically. Being able [00:22:10] to just generate different types of messaging to test.

[00:22:13] Mm.

[00:22:13] vincent: And you hear a [00:22:15] lot about testing when it comes to paid media, just because you can, you can [00:22:20] test with different audiences, but if somebody’s not investing in paid ads, you [00:22:25] can just as easily test in captions, right? Sure. On your Instagram posts. [00:22:30] But you know, I think social media today, a lot of it is just putting a lot out [00:22:35] there.

[00:22:35] Taking a look at what’s working and doing more of what’s working. You [00:22:40] know, there’s places like email subject lines where you can take a look at testing as well. [00:22:45] But ai, you know, it used to be that you would have to hire a copywriter [00:22:50] to be able to write out these six, seven different versions of [00:22:55] something.

[00:22:56] And today, that’s where AI allows the small and local [00:23:00] business owner to be able to have the same types of resources as a company that does have a [00:23:05] full-time copywriter.

[00:23:06] Yeah, I love that you bring that up. And I wanna say it was Gary [00:23:10] V who quoted this at an event we were at last year, and he said, no one [00:23:15] should fear ai.

[00:23:16] Taking your job. You should only fear AI if you [00:23:20] don’t integrate AI into your job. Yes. Right. It’s like it’s not gonna replace [00:23:25] jobs, it’s gonna replace people who refuse to use it in their job. Yeah. And I think that’s a lot of what you [00:23:30] just said. It’s like, I mean, it’s forcing there to be a quicker turnaround.

[00:23:34] Mm-hmm. It’s [00:23:35] forcing speed. Yeah. It’s forcing deliverability what used to be acceptable to [00:23:40] wait 30 days on a copywriter. It’s like, uh, no, I want it today.

[00:23:43] vincent: Yeah.

[00:23:44] Like end of [00:23:45] day.

[00:23:45] vincent: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I was, I was walking last week with a good friend, [00:23:50] Ashton Shanks. He’s building an AI company previously, you know, he was seven, eight figure [00:23:55] marketing agency owner.

[00:23:56] And we were talking about like how AI is going to evolve and kind of like [00:24:00] internally what we’re seeing inside of our own companies. And the biggest thing is like, [00:24:05] it’s not necessarily replace jobs, but it’s made everybody on the team more efficient. Mm-hmm. [00:24:10] And from a productivity standpoint, um. The folks on our, [00:24:15] on my team that are using AI are getting more done.

[00:24:18] In the same length of [00:24:20] time. And I think that’s been the biggest change, is that some of the really [00:24:25] highly repetitive types of work we’ve been able to leverage AI for so that [00:24:30] we can spend more time on the strategy. Yeah. And the stuff that’s actually going to move the needle [00:24:35] and you know, being able to leverage the AI is really important.

[00:24:39] I think that, [00:24:40] you know, you and I, you had just mentioned like people who are AI adverse. I think the, [00:24:45] the AI aversion, a lot of it comes from like, well, I tried it out and like it’s just not [00:24:50] good. Right. And, uh, that part has a lot to [00:24:55] do with like continuing to experiment but also feeding your own [00:25:00] content in.

[00:25:01] Yeah. I think like step one, so for anybody who [00:25:05] is listening to this saying, you know, I, I am one of those AI adverse people. Like, what [00:25:10] are the first three steps that I can take to, to try it? You know, I think a common one [00:25:15] is trying to use AI to write something for you. But if you put a prompt in and the AI just puts [00:25:20] something out where you’re just like, this is not aligned with how we write, this is not aligned with [00:25:25] how I speak.

[00:25:25] This is not aligned as my with my values. The next step after that [00:25:30] is to take the stuff that you have written or take podcast episodes and [00:25:35] transcripts of podcasts that you’ve been on. And to feed that in and [00:25:40] to help the AI understand what you sound like, how you [00:25:45] speak, and the types of things and methodologies that are aligned [00:25:50] with you.

[00:25:50] And the more and more that you do this, the AI starts to [00:25:55] understand you even better. And you know, this is no different than [00:26:00] onboarding a new employee into your company.

[00:26:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:02] vincent: Right? Because

[00:26:03] you gotta train ’em up.

[00:26:03] vincent: You gotta train ’em up. [00:26:05] Right. You put a job description out there, you, you know, you welcome somebody in.

[00:26:09] But on day [00:26:10] one, that person is not going to understand everything about you and your company and how you work. [00:26:15] Until you start helping that person understand that, you know,

[00:26:17] it’s literally, as you were talking, what it made me [00:26:20] think about is. AI is only gonna be helpful to you when you actually know [00:26:25] what it is you want it to do.

[00:26:26] Yes. Like with any good communication. Mm-hmm. Right. If you’re not [00:26:30] clear in the questions mm-hmm. You’re never gonna get the answers that you want. Yes. Right. If you’re not clear in what [00:26:35] results you want, then it’s really hard to give good instructions, which [00:26:40] makes the strategy part all that more important for this to even be able to help you.[00:26:45]

[00:26:45] Otherwise, it’s gonna be bad. Yes. It’s gonna be yes. Not good and people are like, oh, this is [00:26:50] terrible. And it’s like, no, it’s not terrible. Your communication to it was terrible. Mm-hmm. [00:26:55] No different than a new hire or an employee. It’s like you give them bad instructions, [00:27:00] they’re not able to do the job. This is no different.

[00:27:02] vincent: It’s no different. So in [00:27:05] 2019, my first daughter, Lily was born. She’s about five years old. Um, right now, but that was the year that [00:27:10] I started Dad’s Club and you know, with Dad’s club starting in 2019, [00:27:15] uh, early 2020, I had a copywriter on the team. And you know, dad’s [00:27:20] Club is a mobile app where it’s got parenting book, audio summaries, and I [00:27:25] had somebody that was reading those books, summarizing those books, and then writing [00:27:30] scripts.

[00:27:30] For me to like, like an

[00:27:31] actual human, do it, not like an actual

[00:27:33] vincent: human doing that. [00:27:35] Right. Okay. And you know, that costs a lot of money. A lot of

[00:27:38] money. And a lot of time. And

[00:27:39] vincent: a [00:27:40] lot of time to be able to do that. Today, if I [00:27:45] wanted to do a new audiobook summary, we’re talking about it’s 15 [00:27:50] minutes.

[00:27:50] That’s crazy.

[00:27:51] vincent: To be able to prepare for it, another 10 minutes to be able to record [00:27:55] that. And then after that, you know, it’s editing. But we’re talking [00:28:00] about something that used to take a week to be able to do, can now be [00:28:05] done in an hour, and it’s the exact same steps. You know, back then, like I [00:28:10] still had to give instructions to that writer.

[00:28:12] Sure. I still had to give feedback for revisions. [00:28:15] The only thing that’s different now is, you know, the AI is going to be more consistent, [00:28:20] is going to be faster, but you can’t skip the steps. [00:28:25] Mm-hmm. Of mm-hmm. Telling it exactly what you want it to do.

[00:28:27] Yeah, I think that’s so good. Uh, [00:28:30] and I think it’s really important that you mentioned that, that this app, right?

[00:28:33] Mm-hmm. So we, we mentioned [00:28:35] earlier that Vincent is the CEO and founder of viton, and they build [00:28:40] mobile apps. And in our unique world, they, you know, build this awesome personal [00:28:45] brand app. Mm-hmm. And I, I’d love to talk about that a little bit because I think there’s a trend Yes. Heading in that [00:28:50] direction because of all the things that you mentioned where.

[00:28:52] The algorithms on all the platforms are [00:28:55] constantly changing and will continue to change for the benefit of those platforms. [00:29:00] Mm-hmm. Not necessarily for the benefit of the content creator. Yes. As it is. Then [00:29:05] two is the, the decline trend in open rates and email marketing, [00:29:10] because you’re right. It’s like we have heard this and I’m a big believer of like, no, you have to own your [00:29:15] contacts.

[00:29:15] Right? You’re not building your audience on rented real estate for other people. Uh, no [00:29:20] offense, mark Zuckerberg or anyone else, but it’s like, I’m not trying to build your empire, right? Yeah. I’m trying [00:29:25] to create my own community. However, now with AI and all these [00:29:30] things in your inboxes, it’s like mm-hmm.

[00:29:31] They’re not getting your emails. No, they’re not opening your emails and it’s like, [00:29:35] this is a whole new world of everything that was, [00:29:40] is no more. Right? It is changing rapidly and at the speed of technology, [00:29:45] it’s like you cannot keep up and then. I think you mentioned [00:29:50] things like push notifications and mobile apps, and I think there is this [00:29:55] rise to this concept of, well, how do I consolidate all of my [00:30:00] content to make it easier for people to access, you know, my information so they don’t have to go to [00:30:05] YouTube, then Instagram, then my podcast, then X, then TikTok.[00:30:10]

[00:30:10] Um, but then also the ability to reach ’em. Yeah. So let’s talk about like what is a [00:30:15] personal brand app? When, you know, you mentioned a few of these, like Kim Kardashians happened more than a [00:30:20] decade ago. Um, what is it, what do they do and what are the trends that you see towards [00:30:25] this?

[00:30:25] vincent: Yeah, so I think the first thing is when you take a look [00:30:30] longer over the course of like a century, there are always changes [00:30:35] in how to be able to reach folks.

[00:30:37] So newspapers and the printing [00:30:40] press, like if you go back, what’s back? If you go back that long. There is the evolution of that [00:30:45] to radio, to tv, to websites, to [00:30:50] mobile apps, to the push notifications that mobile apps are able to [00:30:55] send now, and being able to evolve with them oftentimes [00:31:00] starts with the larger players in the market.

[00:31:02] That can afford it. Mm-hmm. And then [00:31:05] becomes accessible to the masses and that’s what’s happening to your point, with the [00:31:10] personal brand apps that we’re seeing now. So a personal brand app allows you [00:31:15] to be able to think about all of the things in your LinkedIn bio, right, that you put in your LinkedIn [00:31:20] bio today when somebody clicks that, they’re gonna click on one of the seven links in there.

[00:31:24] Yeah, [00:31:25] and then you may or may not ask for an email address depending on what [00:31:30] one of those seven links are, and when you get that email address, you can send [00:31:35] emails to them, but they have an open rate that’s under 50% and a click through rate, that’s like two to [00:31:40] 3%. The game changer with these personal brand apps are, if you’re listening to this [00:31:45] right now and you’re wearing an Apple watch, you get notifications on your Apple Watch.

[00:31:49] [00:31:50] If you have an Apple Home pod in your house, you get notifications on your [00:31:55] home pod, even when you’re away from your phone. But for the phone that all of us carry around [00:32:00] today, we on average spend five hours a day in our, on our phone. On our [00:32:05] smartphones, like everybody has a smartphone and 90% of that time is spent inside [00:32:10] of a mobile app.

[00:32:10] Yeah, that’s wild. And I don’t even, oh, my phone’s across the room. This is the furthest I’ve ever been [00:32:15] from my phone. But if I had my phone, you don’t even have to unlock it [00:32:20] to see the notifications. Yeah. That is in marketing, [00:32:25] the best real estate. Mm-hmm. That you could possibly have. Right now it’s closer than a billboard.

[00:32:29] [00:32:30] Somebody checks their phone, unlocks their phone 205 times a day. And [00:32:35] so this is powerful in terms of engagement. So we talked [00:32:40] about earlier in this episode, short form content, really great top of funnel to be able to build [00:32:45] awareness. It gets virality and it gets attention. Push notifications [00:32:50] allows you to go deep and to get engagement.

[00:32:53] Hmm.

[00:32:53] vincent: And what I mean by this [00:32:55] is you’re likely listening to this on a podcast right now, wherever you subscribe to [00:33:00] podcasts. If it’s an Apple podcast and you don’t listen to an episode for three weeks, [00:33:05] new episodes, don’t get downloaded onto your phone anymore. If you’re watching a YouTube video, [00:33:10] all the YouTubers always say, subscribe and hit the bell.

[00:33:12] Subscribe and hit the bell. Subscribe and hit the bell. [00:33:15] Why do we do that? Because hitting the bell gets you pushed notifications. The power of these [00:33:20] personal brand apps is consolidating everything in your LinkedIn bio all into one place. [00:33:25] Onto a property that you own in a mobile app that you own [00:33:30] that doesn’t have that algorithm between you and your audience.

[00:33:33] But the other beauty of it [00:33:35] is you might be listening to the BBG podcast. You download A BBG [00:33:40] light app, and then now anytime that there’s a new blog post, you’re getting [00:33:45] push notifications for that blog post. Anytime that there’s an online event, you’re getting push [00:33:50] notifications for that. Because it’s really hard for somebody to come into your ecosystem [00:33:55] where they may have discovered you on YouTube and they might not have any [00:34:00] idea that you have an e-commerce store, or they might know you from the [00:34:05] e-commerce mm-hmm.

[00:34:05] Store and they have no idea that you post blog posts. ’cause like [00:34:10] I’m not sitting around on blogs hitting refresh, like waiting for a new article. And so you [00:34:15] have to be able to push that content to folks so that everybody sees and [00:34:20] knows it. But when you do that, because the push notifications [00:34:25] is really about nurture and relationship.

[00:34:28] When you have an offer, [00:34:30] when you have a new program, when you have something that you’re opening up, it’s already [00:34:35] there. You’re not trying to move them to a webpage or a website from your YouTube [00:34:40] channel because everything’s already in one app.

[00:34:43] You know, it’s interesting because, [00:34:45] uh, I didn’t connect the dots.

[00:34:46] S with this earlier until you were just talking, but you know, you [00:34:50] go to the app store today, it’s like every large company has an app at this point. Yes. And this [00:34:55] is not any different than what you were talking about earlier about how the large companies have been using [00:35:00] ai, AKA software engineers Yeah.

[00:35:03] For decades. It’s just wasn’t [00:35:05] accessible to the masses. Right. And it’s the same thing with apps.

[00:35:08] vincent: And it was the same thing with websites [00:35:10] 10 years ago. Yeah. There was a point like, believe it or not, because this [00:35:15] seems like so long ago, there was a point when entrepreneurs were asking the question of, [00:35:20] should I build a website?

[00:35:21] Yeah. Right. Which seems so foreign day, which seems so [00:35:25] foreign,

[00:35:25] vincent: but at the time it was white pages. [00:35:30] Businesses were listed in the White pages, and some businesses

[00:35:34] had a [00:35:35] website.

[00:35:35] vincent: Had a website, and there were some that said, no, I don’t need that. I got [00:35:40] my phone number in the White pages.

[00:35:41] Who needs this digital thing?

[00:35:42] Who needs

[00:35:43] vincent: this digital thing [00:35:45] today? Like that’s absurd. It’s absurd. Yeah, right. We live in Nashville. Uh, you know, [00:35:50] we both live in Nashville. If we went to the farmer’s market and we saw somebody setting [00:35:55] up a new table with a new tent, there are two things that that table definitely [00:36:00] has today. They have a website, they can accept credit card, and they probably use either [00:36:05] Square or Shopify.

[00:36:06] To be able to have their online presence and accept credit card payments. [00:36:10] That is like, you would be crazy to set up a new business at the [00:36:15] farmer’s market and only take cash

[00:36:16] to it. You know, it’s so funny you say that because I only know when the farmer’s market is happening [00:36:20] because of the different digital platforms.

[00:36:22] Mm-hmm. That I follow. That alert me. Yes. Right. It’s like if [00:36:25] it wasn’t for that, I wouldn’t even know it existed.

[00:36:27] vincent: Correct. So across all the industries [00:36:30] where VI and plays today, right? So we, we want to help people live healthier, happier lives. We [00:36:35] work with, uh, brick and mortar fitness studios. We work with online fitness live [00:36:40] streamers.

[00:36:40] We work with chiropractors offices. We work with folks who, you know, teach [00:36:45] parenting strategies, have, you know, health strategies across all those [00:36:50] spaces. The number one thing that we’re seeing is this move towards the [00:36:55] apps because upstream. Right. Chipotle has an app, but if you [00:37:00] are a local restaurant and you are making salads, your consumers are making a [00:37:05] choice.

[00:37:06] Right. If you’re a local coffee shop, you know, and you take [00:37:10] a look at Starbucks’s earnings report. Yeah. Starbucks has [00:37:15] over a third of their revenue is coming from revenue inside of the mobile app. [00:37:20] Inside the Starbucks app.

[00:37:21] Yeah. That’s crazy. That

[00:37:22] vincent: is crazy. But how is the [00:37:25] local coffee shop? Get to do that?

[00:37:27] Get to do that because consumer [00:37:30] preferences are clear. 88% of consumers prefer to [00:37:35] interact with a business in their mobile app instead of the mobile website. [00:37:40] And having a mobile friendly website today is not enough [00:37:45] anymore because we all know the experience of using an app. It’s faster, [00:37:50] it’s more responsive.

[00:37:51] You’re not doing that thing where you have to like zoom in and zoom out [00:37:55] on your phone and it’s, it’s built for your phone.

[00:37:58] Mm.

[00:37:58] vincent: But the other thing that [00:38:00] happens as well is if you are thinking, my website’s already mobile friendly, that’s [00:38:05] enough. People will open up your mobile app [00:38:10] two and a half times more often than they’ll visit your website.

[00:38:13] You know, back in the day when [00:38:15] like a OL was a thing, we used to all bookmark websites, right. Today, nobody’s [00:38:20] bookmarking websites. You just do a Google search. If you need to find a company’s website, [00:38:25] if you can remember the name of the company, the app [00:38:30] icon that somebody saves onto your phone is kind of like that refrigerator magnet [00:38:35] mm-hmm.

[00:38:35] That the businesses used to send out. Right? Yeah. The refrigerator magnet [00:38:40] was a thing because it was the reminder. Yeah. For [00:38:45] you. Of that business and their phone number today, that is the app icon.

[00:38:49] Hmm.

[00:38:49] vincent: [00:38:50] Somebody unlocks their phone 205 times a day. They’re either gonna see your logo there or they’re not.

[00:38:54] [00:38:55] There’s gonna be either the red little bubble that says you have a notification or there’s not. [00:39:00] And every single day that a business doesn’t build a website [00:39:05] at that farmer’s market is a day where they’re sending their customers off to a [00:39:10] competitor. All of the analysts. And all of the big [00:39:15] companies already know this is mobile apps because the big, the big players have been [00:39:20] doing it for a long time.

[00:39:21] For a long time.

[00:39:22] And this is the opportunity for the small [00:39:25] business, the entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. The solopreneur, the content creator, the thought leader, the speaker, the author, the [00:39:30] coach to get into the space. Yes. And that’s, and that’s what I hear you saying, right?

[00:39:34] vincent: Yes. [00:39:35] And that can be a scary and daunting thing though.

[00:39:37] Mm-hmm. Right. What is [00:39:40] different now is that. Just like [00:39:45] websites are possible for small businesses to have, the mobile [00:39:50] apps are coming to be the same thing as well. You know, traditionally, if you wanted to [00:39:55] custom build a mobile app. Projects can start actually with dad’s club. When I first started [00:40:00] trying to build dad’s club, I went out and I got quotes, uh, for what it was like to build that.[00:40:05]

[00:40:05] And you know, the average quote was like 50 to 150,000. And I’m thinking, oh my [00:40:10] gosh, this is on top of the copywriter that I’m gonna need to be able to help me create the content. [00:40:15] And, uh, today. It’s possible to do that in a 10th of the price because [00:40:20] the technology has just changed.

[00:40:21] Oh, I will just tell you guys, uh, if you are a part of the Brand Builders Group [00:40:25] community, that we have two apps.

[00:40:26] Mm-hmm. Right? We have a community app, which is just our like membership [00:40:30] app. And when we were getting quotes for it, so it’s been live for two years, took us [00:40:35] a year to kind of get it live. So when I started initially getting quotes. For the BBG app was [00:40:40] probably four to five years ago, minimum quotes were coming in at [00:40:45] $250,000 mm-hmm.

[00:40:46] For us to build this custom app. And I was like, what? That’s [00:40:50] crazy. Like we’re a small business, that’s a down

[00:40:52] vincent: payment on a house.

[00:40:53] Like that’s [00:40:55] insanity. And, and also knowing it was gonna be more expensive and take longer than what they were putting [00:41:00] Yes. Just like building a house, by the way. Yeah. Um, and so then I started looking at like other [00:41:05] platforms.

[00:41:05] Like we looked at Mighty Networks. Mm-hmm. And we looked at all these other different platforms and they were all good in their [00:41:10] own right. But none of them could do everything that we needed. Yes. But even then, it was $30,000 a [00:41:15] year. In perpetuity.

[00:41:16] vincent: In perpetuity.

[00:41:17] And I’m like, and it doesn’t even do all the things we [00:41:20] wanted.

[00:41:20] Right. And so we finally kind of like piecemealed together everything and [00:41:25] created an app that almost had everything that we wanted, but not quite. But it still [00:41:30] was. I mean, it still is going to be tens of thousands of dollars a [00:41:35] year mm-hmm. To pay for that. Um, and it was also a, a painful [00:41:40] process. Not, eh, that’s just the, the, the art of technology.

[00:41:43] It’s a little bit painful. [00:41:45] And when we got introduced to you, I was like, there’s gotta, this is like, there has to be a, [00:41:50] like a trick. Like there’s, this is can’t be real because. It wasn’t [00:41:55] tens of thousands of dollars for a personal brand app. It was $2,500 at the time. [00:42:00] Mm-hmm. And I have no doubt your prices will go up over the course of time.

[00:42:03] That, but it was more than that. It was [00:42:05] done in a week. Yeah. And I was like, no way. They lie. They lie. [00:42:10] No way. Uh, because we had gone through the process. Mm-hmm. And I’m like, there’s no [00:42:15] way they’re gonna be doable, all that for this. Like, how do they make money? And it’s like, but. [00:42:20] Learning the, the process and the business.

[00:42:21] It’s like, well, that’s what good systems processes a good team. Yeah. [00:42:25] Automation, ai and actually knowing what you’re doing. Can actually help do that. [00:42:30] And I share that to go, because we invested into this and we have two apps now. We have B, [00:42:35] B, G for members, but we have B, BG Light. Yeah. Right. So this is everyone’s hint.

[00:42:38] Go down bb g, light, it’s a [00:42:40] free app. Uh, but it’s for all these reasons because we are experiencing the same things that everyone [00:42:45] else is. Like the algorithm is changing. It’s harder to reach our audience. Yeah. So the email open rates [00:42:50] are lowering, even though these are in our email list, people who’ve opted in, and it’s like, why aren’t you opening [00:42:55] our emails?

[00:42:55] Mm-hmm. Um. And so we invested in the same thing to, to solve the [00:43:00] same problem that we’re talking about. But I think what made it so appealing [00:43:05] is it, it is what you just said. It’s like what has been available and around that we’re [00:43:10] already accustomed to. We just couldn’t afford it. Mm-hmm. Is now affordable for the [00:43:15] small business owner, the solopreneur.

[00:43:17] Um, and at $2,500 there’s a pretty quick ROI [00:43:20] in just being able to talk to your customers again. Yes. To be able to reach your audience. Yeah. Like [00:43:25] that means a lot In a world where. Big business owns [00:43:30] that, right? Mm-hmm. And they get to decide when, how, and that’s not cool. Right. So this is like [00:43:35] really taking back control of your audience.

[00:43:37] vincent: Yeah. And we, we’ve spent years [00:43:40] refining the processes, to your point, to be able to make it possible to build a custom [00:43:45] personal brand app in a week. And you know, we kicked off your project on a [00:43:50] Monday. By Wednesday, we were showing you every single screen in your app. You gave us some [00:43:55] feedback on that.

[00:43:55] Wednesday afternoon, by Thursday we turned the revisions and then we were submitting the app to Apple and [00:44:00] Google on Friday. And I remember on Saturday you, we left for

[00:44:02] Mexico, you and

[00:44:03] vincent: Rory, and the family [00:44:05] left for Mexico.

[00:44:06] That’d be ready, but that’s

[00:44:07] vincent: how mu, that’s how much confidence that we had [00:44:10] in the processes because we’ve done this so many times.

[00:44:13] There’s three things [00:44:15] that really make us unique in the marketplace today. You know, our mission is to help people live healthier, happier [00:44:20] lives. And the secondary to that, and just as important is we want to make [00:44:25] this type of technology that large companies have always had access to available to every single [00:44:30] solopreneur, local entrepreneur, small business.

[00:44:33] And, uh, [00:44:35] we do that by bringing simplicity and speed to the process. Mm-hmm. So we can do this in a [00:44:40] week so that you can achieve the ROI, you know, be for many, many [00:44:45] marketing agencies. Salaries and labor is the biggest cost by streaming lining these [00:44:50] processes we’re able to bring. The amount of cost that it takes us to be able to build the [00:44:55] app and then pass all of that through.

[00:44:57] Yeah. The simplicity part is talking [00:45:00] about, we know that the process of building a mobile app can be really intimidating, which is why we [00:45:05] take on all of the technical stuff and you know, we work with [00:45:10] majority companies that do not have a chief technology officer, do not have [00:45:15] software development teams in house to be able to allow them to compete with the companies that do.[00:45:20]

[00:45:20] Yeah. And you know, the second thing is just the number of features and integrations that we [00:45:25] have allows you, to your point, to be able to tie [00:45:30] all of these different things together. That historically, if you bought a [00:45:35] branded app, you’re buying it from a company where the only thing that that app does. Is [00:45:40] provide you with a branded mobile app for whatever that company does.

[00:45:43] So you end up [00:45:45] with either an e-commerce app that only does e-commerce, a food delivery app that only [00:45:50] does food delivery, or a content app that only does content. [00:45:55] And you know, there’s. Two big trends that we’re really seeing. The first one is the [00:46:00] implementation of ai. So the BBG light app does have, um, a custom GPT [00:46:05] in it that is called Brand Bot.

[00:46:07] And Brand bot is brilliant [00:46:10] at actually helping you do the types of things that you would do if [00:46:15] you were working with BBG in a strategy session or a content intensive. And [00:46:20] you know, it’s an incredible technology to be able to get leverage. But the [00:46:25] second thing that we’re seeing from that is this shift from [00:46:30] mass content to micro personalized content.

[00:46:34] Mm.

[00:46:34] vincent: [00:46:35] And what I mean by that is, you know, when you think about, uh, [00:46:40] 10 years ago before streaming, there were only a few TV channels, [00:46:45] and chances are on during prime time, you and I, aj, were probably watching [00:46:50] the same type of show. Right. If not the same show. Like it was [00:46:55] friends or it was, you know, whatever you were watching the next day you went to work and you talked to everybody about [00:47:00] that.

[00:47:00] That’s right. That’s macro content. Mm-hmm. Right. Micro content is closer [00:47:05] to the streaming world right now where we have so many options that we’re all watching. Love [00:47:10] is Blind, so they still won that. But for the most part, like we’re watching different shows [00:47:15] based on niches and based on, you know, what you are interested in.

[00:47:19] Mm-hmm. [00:47:20] As opposed to everybody in us watching friends. The future of entertainment is [00:47:25] already heading into a space where 15 years from now, it’ll be [00:47:30] TV shows that are made for you with characters that are made for you, and you might actually [00:47:35] be the only one watching that show, but that same experience, if you [00:47:40] run an online community or you create content online, is what’s starting to happen.[00:47:45]

[00:47:45] Yeah. As well at an individual level. Because people have [00:47:50] individual questions and individual needs. And so one example [00:47:55] is like, we have an app today that’s called Worthy Self-Care. And Miz, their [00:48:00] founder, you know, has an entire philosophy around wellness and, you know, [00:48:05] they have advice about like regulating, you know, your, [00:48:10] um, nervous system or ways to be able to reduce inflammation.[00:48:15]

[00:48:15] And you know, she might get dms on Instagram for asking [00:48:20] for advice. And inside of her app now she has an AI bot that is [00:48:25] trained to not only give the responses that she would give, but it’s [00:48:30] writing out like, here’s a four point checklist with information on [00:48:35] step by step how to do something. Hmm. It’s an [00:48:40] infinitely patient version of her as well.

[00:48:43] And

[00:48:43] accessible. And

[00:48:44] vincent: [00:48:45] accessible. Accessible as well as it doesn’t sleep.

[00:48:48] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:49] vincent: And so [00:48:50] for, you know, the person who’s listening to this going like, you know, I want to [00:48:55] talk to a human, not an ai. The question that I would have is, [00:49:00] what if the AI is saying and writing the thing that the human would. [00:49:05] But is writing a much longer, more detailed version of it

[00:49:08] and giving it to you when you want it and [00:49:10] giving it

[00:49:10] vincent: to you instantly.

[00:49:12] Mm.

[00:49:12] vincent: That is an example of a [00:49:15] micro interaction, and that is where all of this technology is heading [00:49:20] because you can’t write a blog post for each individual person [00:49:25] because it’s too specific. And what AI is allowing you to do [00:49:30] is to be able to actually scale the technology to be able to make this possible.

[00:49:33] Mm, because in [00:49:35] the past, the only way that that was possible is in a very high ticket [00:49:40] offer. The where it has to be priced that way, because that’s how much time it takes to [00:49:45] deliver on that. And so just like these mobile apps are now becoming accessible, just like [00:49:50] websites have become accessible to small businesses, building AI clones [00:49:55] of the personal brand.

[00:49:56] Allows me in the middle of the night, like I might wake [00:50:00] up and go, ha, I got this idea for a new podcast. I wanna start and I’m, I’m curious what [00:50:05] AJ and Rory think about like these two names for a new podcast.

[00:50:08] Because we got opinions.

[00:50:09] vincent: [00:50:10] Because you got opinions, right? And I can throw it into the BBG light app.[00:50:15]

[00:50:15] Ask brand bot and brand bot can not only give me the [00:50:20] answer. But then like I don’t have to be embarrassed that like I gave, I, I asked a [00:50:25] question and I got the answer, but like, maybe I was like too nervous to ask that question [00:50:30] myself. Right. There’s a lot of topics where you might, yeah, that’s good. You [00:50:35] might have a question, but you might be too nervous to actually ask that question.

[00:50:38] I think, and I think that happens a [00:50:40] lot. Yeah. In all different topics. Sure. It’s like there’s lots of things we wanna ask, but we’re like, we don’t wanna sound [00:50:45] dumb or I don’t wanna be wrong. And so instead of doing the thing that we feel really called to do, I. [00:50:50] We actually just hold it in. Yeah. And we don’t even live out our life’s calling.

[00:50:53] And these are, [00:50:55] these are giving us tools to go, Hey, when you’re not completely, you know, [00:51:00] yeah. Certain about what to ask. Like this is a forum to do that. Um, so I, I wanna give [00:51:05] everyone an opportunity, um, to learn more about Viton and these personal brand apps. And so [00:51:10] if you guys are listening to the show or you’re catching up on the show notes, that you can go to the show notes and [00:51:15] grab this link and just click on it.

[00:51:16] Uh, but I would encourage you guys like, explore. All right. [00:51:20] It’s not gonna be for everyone right now, but just like social media [00:51:25] and websites, like this is not a fad. This is a trend and it’s [00:51:30] trending in a mass wide scale offering, um, that [00:51:35] everyone is likely going to need it at some point. Mm-hmm. Uh, because of this is, this is the [00:51:40] rise of the content economy.

[00:51:41] It’s like. It’s, it’s not even rising. It’s here. Mm-hmm. Right. [00:51:45] It’s a, it’s an over, it’s, it’s a flooding of the marketplace. So if you go to vien, [00:51:50] V-Y-T-E-N, [00:51:55] vien.com/bbg, then Vincent and his team will know that you heard this podcast, that you have [00:52:00] some prelim information, that you have some context around this, and that’ll help them tailor, [00:52:05] uh, this conversation to everything that you heard on the show.

[00:52:07] So. [00:52:10] viton.com/bbg. Now, Vincent, before I let you go, um, I have uh, just [00:52:15] two last quick questions. Mm-hmm. Um, for everyone. So here’s what I want to [00:52:20] ask you as you’re heading out. Uh, number one, where can people go to just connect with [00:52:25] you?

[00:52:25] vincent: Yeah, for me. So on Instagram, Vincent Faban, um, I think there will be a link in the [00:52:30] show notes.

[00:52:30] Um, the company is Viton Apps on Instagram, Viton apps. Um, as well, [00:52:35] you can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

[00:52:37] Awesome. And then what is your favorite app? [00:52:40]

[00:52:40] vincent: Oh man, that is such a great question. Like right now it’s the aura ring. [00:52:45] Oh. And so I, I’m wearing an aura ring, um, right now, and every single thing that I’m [00:52:50] doing this year.

[00:52:51] Is focused on being more rested, more restored. [00:52:55] Um, it’s been a few months since I’ve had a drink of alcohol and not because like I wanted to give up [00:53:00] drinking, but because I am like a hundred percent focused right now on just having [00:53:05] good routines and, you know, the Aura, the Aura Ring app has an Aura advisor in it.[00:53:10]

[00:53:10] And so, you know, there’s a lot of data that it gives you, and it used to be like, you’d have to read about it, [00:53:15] but just like I shared on this episode with like the micro interactions, like I can actually ask the AA [00:53:20] ring, like, Hey, my, my resting heart rate was, you know, pretty low last night. Like, what are the [00:53:25] three things that I can do to be able, uh, to improve that?

[00:53:28] And so it’s, yeah, it’s been [00:53:30] a ride that I’ve, I’ve been on, but I’m, I’ve been really excited

[00:53:34] about it. Love that. [00:53:35] And last question.

[00:53:36] vincent: Yep.

[00:53:36] What does influential mean to you?

[00:53:39] vincent: [00:53:40] Influential means to me, like going out and making an impact.

[00:53:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:53:44] vincent: And you know, [00:53:45] the, I think part of the challenge today in like to today’s society is, the word [00:53:50] influencer is different than being influential [00:53:55] because I think of an influe as somebody who’s like pedaling [00:54:00] something, whereas being influential is not with [00:54:05] a goal that is selfish.

[00:54:07] But it’s actually a goal of being [00:54:10] selfless. Mm-hmm. And going out and to be able to allow yourself [00:54:15] to serve others for the improvement of their life, not your own.

[00:54:19] [00:54:20] Oh, that’s good. I like that answer. Uh, I love the difference between influencer and [00:54:25] influential. Um, and I would say that you have been super influential in [00:54:30] our journey at BBG and continue to be for our entire community.

[00:54:34] So thank you so [00:54:35] much for being on the So show. So many great highlights, so much wisdom, and I just love learning [00:54:40] about. What’s happening in the marketplace that we don’t get to talk about in everyday life. So y’all, [00:54:45] again, go to vi ten.com/bbg. Uh, check it out. Learn about this [00:54:50] trend in personal brand apps.

[00:54:51] And if you wanna connect with Vincent, it’s at Vincent fam van. Um, and you can [00:54:55] check ’em out on all social media channels. Y’all, we’d love you. Thanks for tuning in. Uh, stick [00:55:00] around for the recap episode, which will be coming up soon. We’ll see you next time on the Influential [00:55:05] Personal Brand.

Ep 585: 5 Simple Things You Can Do Every Day to Improve Your Health | Dr. Helena Popovic Recap

[00:00:00] You think you’re healthy? But the truth is you’re probably [00:00:05] not. You see, I just came off of this amazing interview on the [00:00:10] influential personal brand podcast with Dr. Helena Papa Vic, and she is a [00:00:15] leading doctor in brain health from Australia. But it wasn’t just this interview that makes me [00:00:20] say that.

[00:00:20] I have been on my own health journey for the last 18 months [00:00:25] and a very intentional. Research driven, data-driven approach to [00:00:30] understanding why I was feeling the way that I was and why I was saying [00:00:35] I’m healthy and realizing I’m actually not, you see [00:00:40] what happened is I thought because I didn’t eat sugar that.[00:00:45]

[00:00:45] I wasn’t eating sugar. And what I mean by that is I’m not a big dessert person. I don’t have [00:00:50] cookies. I’m not a heavy like, you know, sugary drink person. I [00:00:55] don’t drink alcohol, so I don’t drink soda. I, I, I did the healthy [00:01:00] thing, don’t eat a lot of processed foods. And on a, a very important [00:01:05] conversation that I had with a health coach at the time he challenged me and he said, [00:01:10] I don’t believe that you don’t eat sugar.

[00:01:12] And I think that you’re fooling yourself [00:01:15] just because you don’t eat dessert. Soda and alcohol doesn’t mean that you don’t eat [00:01:20] sugar. And I was confused and I said, what are you talking about? And so I did an [00:01:25] audit of my pantry, of his request and I learned, oh my gosh, I eat [00:01:30] so much sugar. And I didn’t know it.

[00:01:32] And it wasn’t just that if you would’ve asked me a [00:01:35] year ago, Hey, aj, do you, do you put a lot of oils into your food? I would’ve been like, no. [00:01:40] Occasionally I cook with olive oil, but that’s it. That was also a lie. Oils were in [00:01:45] almost every single condiment we had. They were almost in every single box food that we had.[00:01:50]

[00:01:50] They were in every skin product, face, product, lotion, conditioner, [00:01:55] shampoo sunscreen. If I owned it, it had oils in [00:02:00] it. And again, I’m not saying any of these things are necessarily [00:02:05] bad. But in the amount that we are taking them in as an American [00:02:10] society, our bodies were not meant to sustain them at the levels that we’re [00:02:15] consuming them.

[00:02:15] So what I wanna share with you today, I’m no health practitioner. [00:02:20] I am not a doctor, but these are five simple things that I believe that [00:02:25] you can do every single day to get and stay healthy. [00:02:30] Now if you like some of these ’cause they are free, simple and in my opinion, [00:02:35] pretty easy. Then I would encourage you to go listen to the entire conversation that I had with [00:02:40] Dr.

[00:02:40] Helena Popovic because this is not just about being healthy physically. [00:02:45] This is about internal health. This is about gut health, cardiovascular help. This is about [00:02:50] brain health. This is about doing the things today that will prolong your life, [00:02:55] not just so that you’re older, but that you live a happier, healthier life as you age.

[00:02:59] [00:03:00] So here’s the first thing. Start every day in [00:03:05] prayer or gratitude. There are scientific research studies that [00:03:10] prove that when you start your day in a gratitude [00:03:15] state, that you have lowered your cholesterol, lowered your [00:03:20] cortisol, that you have, you know, decreased the stress hormones, IE cortisol, [00:03:25] but you are actually starting your day in a way that you are positioning your mind, [00:03:30] your heart, and your body to receive what comes at you throughout [00:03:35] the day.

[00:03:35] Right. And not only that, it’s like if you start every day with the attitude [00:03:40] of Thank you Lord, for this day, thank you for breath in my lungs. Thank you for [00:03:45] eyes to see. Thank you for ears to hear. Thank you for legs to walk with. If you just remember the [00:03:50] most fundamental things that we forget in the busy hecticness, hecticness of [00:03:55] life, it puts things in perspective that already.

[00:03:59] That you [00:04:00] have been given the gift of another day that already that you have breath in [00:04:05] your lungs and you have feet to walk on, and you have eyes to see [00:04:10] and, and ears to hear the little, you know, whispers of your children outside your door. [00:04:15] And to see the sunrise that comes up. And on the days where I’m like a little grumpy that [00:04:20] I’m up when the sunrise happens, I remember that.

[00:04:22] I have eyes to see the sunrise today. [00:04:25] And when I’m a little frustrated that my kids are interrupting my morning routine, I remember [00:04:30] that I get the pleasure of ha happy, healthy children in my house. And when [00:04:35] I’m a little grumpy that I have to get in my car and drive through traffic, I, [00:04:40] I remember that I have the privilege of a car that works, that’s [00:04:45] reliable and that I have a place to go to see people that I enjoy getting to work with.[00:04:50]

[00:04:50] That’s a perspective shift. That’s a heart stance of [00:04:55] gratitude versus ingratitude. And if we’re not proactively choosing [00:05:00] gratitude by default, we are unintentionally choosing ingratitude. [00:05:05] But that’s the first thing is just start your day in prayer and thankfulness and gratitude [00:05:10] that you are alive today there.

[00:05:12] And there’s a reason behind that in that if you [00:05:15] are alive today, there’s breath in your lungs, there’s a reason. And that doesn’t mean it’s [00:05:20] gonna be an easy day, but there is purpose in the day. So that’s number one. Number two, [00:05:25] this is a little bit more tactical and I have it on right now. So if you’re watching my video, I’m gonna stick my [00:05:30] shoe up in the air and I’m gonna show you this little thing, right?

[00:05:33] This is a pedometer. [00:05:35] Yes, I know that you can have an app on your phone, but I’m trying to stay tech free. So I bought myself this little [00:05:40] pedometer and I track my steps and that is my own little competition [00:05:45] to make sure that I am moving every single day. See, I set a goal at the beginning of this year.

[00:05:49] We’re in [00:05:50] 2025 when we’re filming this to, to walk 10,000 steps a day. [00:05:55] And when I set that goal, I didn’t realize how much walking that was, to be honest, because I [00:06:00] work a lot and I’m at my desk a lot and I didn’t realize that, you know, 10,000 steps [00:06:05] could be 90 minutes to two hours of walking every single day.

[00:06:09] And [00:06:10] so I’ve had to get really creative. And I will tell you what will happen on an average [00:06:15] day if I am at my computer, like a day at today, where I’ve done tons of video [00:06:20] recordings. Here’s what starts to happen. I’m gonna stand up, so you may only see half of me, but. I do [00:06:25] this. Yes, like a crazy person in line at the grocery store.

[00:06:28] I’m marching in line [00:06:30] like a crazy person. While I’m cooking. I’m marching in line while I am drying my hair. I am [00:06:35] marching in place while I’m curling my hair. I am marching in place. I’m March in place all the [00:06:40] time. My kids just now, oh, mom’s marching again. Mom’s marching again, y’all [00:06:45] listen. Movement matters.

[00:06:47] And it doesn’t have to be 10,000 steps a day. You [00:06:50] don’t have to get a pedometer. It could be your movement of choice. But the point is, it’s like, [00:06:55] do not expect what you do not inspect. And it’s not a chore. [00:07:00] It’s a privilege that you get the opportunity to go and do these things, right? And [00:07:05] so challenge yourself to move, make it a competition, gamify [00:07:10] it.

[00:07:10] Do whatever you have to do to get yourself in the mindset to go, oh, [00:07:15] shoot. Right, because I’m right now. I’m only at a thousand steps and it’s almost [00:07:20] 2:00 PM I got a lot of moving to do between now and the end of the day. I [00:07:25] would not know that if I was not tracking it. So give yourself [00:07:30] some tools to do the things that are necessary for you to be and stay healthy.

[00:07:34] And moving [00:07:35] every day is one of those things. Number three, cut alcohol. And I, [00:07:40] I say that not because I think alcohol is necessarily evil or bad. I say it [00:07:45] because if it does not add something to your life, then why are you doing it? And to say [00:07:50] that, oh, it tastes good, or anything else is like, well, there’s plenty of other things that taste good too.[00:07:55]

[00:07:55] Don’t rationalize, rationalize yourself into something that isn’t necessarily [00:08:00] good for your long-term health. Do you have to cut it completely? Do you have to cut it [00:08:05] forever? Maybe not. But cut it for the day, right? [00:08:10] Give yourself the opportunity to detoxify your body so that you can rest without it.

[00:08:14] You [00:08:15] can think without it. You can relax without it. You can have fun without it. And so my [00:08:20] third tip would be to cut alcohol. Challenge yourself for a day, a week, a month, a [00:08:25] year. But see what life looks like without it and see what you can replace it with. [00:08:30] Water. What if for every single time that you went for that glass of wine, instead [00:08:35] you went for that glass of water, what would that do for the actual internal health [00:08:40] of your body?

[00:08:41] Number four, cut sugar. And I’m not saying that you shouldn’t [00:08:45] enjoy sugar ever, but it should be a treat. It should be something that you look [00:08:50] forward to enjoy, not an expectation that you have every night after dinner, and most [00:08:55] certainly not a hidden ingredient in every single thing that you eat and drink throughout the day.[00:09:00]

[00:09:00] And you can only cut sugar if you know all the things that you’re eating that has [00:09:05] sugar in it, which means you have to become obsessive about reading labels. Or even [00:09:10] better yet, don’t read labels. If it has a label, just don’t buy it. [00:09:15] Right. That’s a, that’s a call back to food from the Earth, right? Did it [00:09:20] grow in a tree?

[00:09:20] Did it grow in a vine? Did it come from the earth? Right? Is it a whole food? Right? What if you [00:09:25] never had to look at a label to see how many grams of sugar it had in it because there was no label? [00:09:30] ’cause it was a whole food, right? We call it our family perimeter Shopping. Right. That [00:09:35] means that you never go down the aisles, right?

[00:09:37] ’cause there’s not fresh food down the aisle. So we’re perimeter [00:09:40] shoppers. And we really challenge ourselves to never go down the aisles. And it’s, that means [00:09:45] it’s in the produce sec section, it’s in the meat section, it’s in the dairy section but it’s [00:09:50] all, all around the perimeter of the grocery store.

[00:09:52] So what would it look like for you to become a perimeter [00:09:55] shopper at your local grocery store? And last, but certainly not least. This is the [00:10:00] fifth quick, easy thing that you can do on a daily basis to get and stay healthy, is [00:10:05] to go to bed earlier, get more sleep. Okay. [00:10:10] Give your body time to rest. Give your brain the chance to rejuvenate [00:10:15] and detoxify.

[00:10:16] Let your body rest. That is a, a, an [00:10:20] easy thing. Said, not always an easy thing done. And I have two little boys at home [00:10:25] and a husband who travels and a business that is growing and a, a growing [00:10:30] team. And there’s lots of demands on my schedule, which means it’s even more [00:10:35] important that I prioritize my bedtime.

[00:10:39] Because [00:10:40] a well-rested AJ is a happy aj and everybody [00:10:45] wants you to be happy, right? And I love this quote, I think Mark Twain said it [00:10:50] that you know, fatigue makes cowards of us all. And that’s because we [00:10:55] don’t think as clearly and we’re not as healthy or [00:11:00] happy, and we’re stressed and our internal hormone levels are in disarray when we [00:11:05] don’t have enough rest.

[00:11:06] Right. A sleep deprivation is a real thing and you, [00:11:10] you may not even know that you’re sleep deprived, but if you have brain fog, if you are [00:11:15] suffering from depression or anxiety, and I’m not saying it’s only because of sleep, but a [00:11:20] lack of sleep only increases all of those things. So get to bed [00:11:25] earlier, right?

[00:11:26] Create a sleep routine that helps you go to sleep and stay asleep . [00:11:30] That is a simple thing that you can do that allows your body to rest to prepare for the day [00:11:35] ahead. So those are five simple things. Again, start every day in prayer, get [00:11:40] moving. Right? In my case, get a pedometer, cut, sugar, cut alcohol, and go to bed [00:11:45] earlier.

Ep 584: Unlocking the Power of Brain Health for Personal and Professional Success with Dr. Helena Popovic

[00:00:00] AJ: Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here. And [00:00:05] I am so excited, uh, to get to spend the next hour listening to the [00:00:10] amazing accent of Dr. Elena Vic. And, uh, she is [00:00:15] actually joining us from Australia, which we were just catching up about. I had the [00:00:20] amazing opportunity to live in Australia, uh, right as I was graduating college, and it’s.

[00:00:24] A [00:00:25] very near and dear place to my heart. So, uh, regardless of what I’m talking about today, you’re [00:00:30] gonna get to enjoy this amazing accent. Uh, not to mention amazing knowledge, [00:00:35] uh, from Dr. Helena and y’all as I normally do. I kind of give you a couple of [00:00:40] reasons of why this episode is important to stick around for, and I always find that it’s [00:00:45] important you know, what you’re about to get into so that you can commit for the hour.

[00:00:48] And if it’s not [00:00:50] for you, I’ll tell you, but there are some episodes that are just for everyone. And [00:00:55] today is one of those episodes because we’re gonna be talking about something that you will [00:01:00] have for the rest of your life and you need to know how to take care of it, how to nurture [00:01:05] it, uh, and how to support it.

[00:01:06] And it’s your brain, right? Like we need our brains. [00:01:10] Um, and so we’re gonna be talking a lot about brain health today, because that is her area of [00:01:15] expertise and specialty. So here’s what we’re gonna be talking about and why you should stick around understanding the [00:01:20] impact of brain health on your success.

[00:01:22] Okay. And, uh, that doesn’t matter if it’s personal or [00:01:25] professional, but brain health matters for longevity and a healthy longevity. [00:01:30] At that, we’re gonna talk about some importance in, uh, proactive measures that you can take to [00:01:35] prevent cognitive decline. And then also, uh, some practical strategies, which is what [00:01:40] I am most excited about, uh, for enhancing mental performance.

[00:01:44] Uh, I [00:01:45] actually selfishly shared with her, I’m gonna talk to her about how to get rid of brain fog, um, [00:01:50] at AKA. Mom brain. So if she can solve that problem for me today, it’s gonna be a [00:01:55] major win. Uh, but that is why you need to stick around for this entire episode, ’cause we’re gonna be covering [00:02:00] all of that and so much more.

[00:02:01] But let me formally introduce you to Dr. Helena and [00:02:05] then we’re gonna get to the goods of this interview, which is actually why you’re here. So, [00:02:10] Dr. Vic, uh, you have done so many things. You are a renowned doctor. [00:02:15] Speaker, you’re an award-winning author specializing in brain health, positive aging, and I [00:02:20] love that term, positive aging, but also with a heavy emphasis on dementia [00:02:25] prevention, which is a big part of your story and I’d love to hear more about that.

[00:02:28] Uh, but here’s, [00:02:30] here’s one of the things I think is really important is that you’re on a mission to empower people at any [00:02:35] stage of life on how to boost, boost brain function. Right [00:02:40] now, I don’t imagine that you’ve started out. Your professional [00:02:45] career post-college in academia with that? How’d you get into this?[00:02:50]

[00:02:50] DR HP: Well, it was rather circuitous route, um, in 2010, so that makes it [00:02:55] 15 years ago, shortly after my mother passed away with lung cancer, I was there with [00:03:00] my father and I happened to open the fridge and find a box of a medication called [00:03:05] tig, which is sometimes prescribed for people with Alzheimer’s disease.

[00:03:08] Hmm. I found it in the butter [00:03:10] compartment of the fridge, and I thought. I don’t know anyone with Alzheimer’s disease. So I asked dad, [00:03:15] who’s this medication for? And he said, oh, your mom said it was good for my memory. [00:03:20] Um, so I stick a patch on every day. I don’t think it does much good, but happy [00:03:25] wife, good life.

[00:03:27] That was how I first discovered that my [00:03:30] father had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease because I’d been living a thousand miles away [00:03:35] from my parents. So I only flew. To live at home again, to look [00:03:40] after my mother, after her diagnosis. Um, and so I had assumed that dad’s [00:03:45] confusion and depression obviously, and withdrawal, they were all symptoms of grief [00:03:50] because in an older person, grief, depression, [00:03:55] dementia, very similar symptoms, and it’s hard to tease apart.

[00:03:58] So I’d assumed it was grief, [00:04:00] but when I tracked down my father’s gp. Doctor, he confirmed the [00:04:05] diagnosis. And here’s the thing, such was the stigma around dementia in my [00:04:10] Serbian family of origin that my parents had not even told [00:04:15] their only child me. Wow. Their devoted daughter who also happened to be a doctor [00:04:20] that her father had Alzheimer’s disease.

[00:04:23] And so, and, [00:04:25] and in every, you know, when, when I found out about it, everybody said, oh look, just. Go back to [00:04:30] your life. There’s nothing you can do to help him. Put him in a nursing home and [00:04:35] don’t waste your time because there’s nothing you can do to help. Wow. There’s not like, there is no [00:04:40] cure. And yes, my medical training says the few medications that are [00:04:45] around are not really doing anything.

[00:04:47] Um, and there’s nothing you can do. But [00:04:50] I just didn’t accept that because there’s also something else we’re taught on day one of medical school, and that is [00:04:55] half of what you learn. In medical school, we’ll be out of date by the time [00:05:00] you graduate. The problem is you won’t know which half because that’s how, that’s a [00:05:05] scary thought,

[00:05:05] AJ: isn’t it?

[00:05:05] Isn’t

[00:05:06] DR HP: it a scary thought? But it is. It’s actually been, you know, [00:05:10] pushed me to, to keep learning because there are so many things that are just so out of [00:05:15] date that I learned, okay, it was a while ago, but nonetheless. So anyway, I thought, no, not good enough. [00:05:20] So I did a really deep dive, learned every, like, read all the papers I could from.

[00:05:24] [00:05:25] All, all corners of the globe about brain health and dementia. And I discovered something [00:05:30] that changed my world, and that is that just because something doesn’t come in a pill [00:05:35] doesn’t mean it isn’t powerful. Mm. Sleep, [00:05:40] stress management, food, exercise, music, art, social [00:05:45] stimulation, time in nature. I could go on and on.

[00:05:47] All of these things are medicine for our [00:05:50] mind as well as medicine for our body. Mm.

[00:05:52] And

[00:05:52] DR HP: so I applied all these things to my father and [00:05:55] I was able to look after him, keep him at home for 10 years. Wow. He passed away peacefully in [00:06:00] his sleep, shortly before Covid and people, you know, when people thought, but how come [00:06:05] he’s not getting worse?

[00:06:05] Dementia is supposed to get worse. He’s still recognizes you. He’s still [00:06:10] independent. His memory, he short-term memory was very poor, but mainly he just needed [00:06:15] supervision, whereas people forget how to eat, forget how to talk. Mm-hmm. Uh, can [00:06:20] no longer verbalize, can no longer dress themselves. None of that happened to dad.

[00:06:24] And so people [00:06:25] start asking me like, what are you doing? Do you think it’ll help me?

[00:06:29] Mm.

[00:06:29] DR HP: And I [00:06:30] said, absolutely. Well, there’s certainly, well, all the evidence suggests that at [00:06:35] any age or stage of life, we can and should be boosting our brain. Because [00:06:40] here’s the thing from our. The, the brain changes that can lead [00:06:45] to Alzheimer’s disease start 30 years before we get any [00:06:50] symptoms.

[00:06:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:50] DR HP: So you’re never too young to start boosting your brain and thinking about brain [00:06:55] health, but not only that, then it’s gonna help you be more productive, um, better [00:07:00] thinking, more creative. During your working life and everything you do [00:07:05] now will also go a long way to helping you prevent dementia as you age.

[00:07:09] So [00:07:10] I’m on a mission, I love that to, to send this message to everybody. Don’t be [00:07:15] complacent about your brain. Don’t believe any doctor, neurologist, [00:07:20] geriatrician who still say to you, you know, there’s nothing you can do. Get your affairs in order. [00:07:25] When you start to show signs of cognitive decline, because.

[00:07:29] You know, I’ve written [00:07:30] two books now on all the things that you can do and, and people, you know, have [00:07:35] written back and just gone, I’ve got my life back, you know, I’ve got my brain back.

[00:07:38] AJ: Okay. This is gonna seem like an [00:07:40] overly simplified question, but what is brain [00:07:45] health? Right? And I think that’s like even just asking like, what is brain health?

[00:07:49] Because I’m sitting [00:07:50] here going, I read a ton of health books. I’m very into nutrition [00:07:55] and sleep, and. Kind of on a health journey of myself and it’s like, I could not [00:08:00] tell you now. Yes. It’s like, yes, be outside and keep your brain active and keep it, [00:08:05] you know, eat healthy. Sure. But I don’t recall any time I’ve ever [00:08:10] been to my doctor and the history of my 42 years on this [00:08:15] planet, almost 42 of having a conversation.

[00:08:18] Let’s talk about your brain [00:08:20] health today, aj. So. What is brain health and just kinda like walk us through [00:08:25] like what are the simplest, most proactive daily things we can do to keep our brains [00:08:30] healthy?

[00:08:31] DR HP: Okay. Firstly, your doctor hasn’t talked to you about it because it’s not at the [00:08:35] forefront of their mind.

[00:08:36] They’re not really trained to think about it. A lot of [00:08:40] this information is very new. We probably learned more about the brain in the last [00:08:45] two decades. In, you know, this century than we did in all the previous centuries [00:08:50] combined.

[00:08:50] Hmm.

[00:08:50] DR HP: So it is a new area. Well, it doesn’t feel new to me ’cause I’ve been doing it for a couple of [00:08:55] decades, but still a few decades is still a very new area.

[00:08:57] So that’s why your doctor’s not [00:09:00] talking about it. And probably because you looks at you and go, you’re young, you don’t have to worry about it yet, because people [00:09:05] don’t realize how early those changes start taking place. So that’s [00:09:10] why people don’t bring it up. And also, uh, they just don’t wanna know about it because it’s so [00:09:15] scary.

[00:09:15] Dementia is more feared than cancer, and in fact, not in your country, [00:09:20] but in my country, dementia is the number one cause of death in Australian women, in [00:09:25] UK women. I think it’s maybe number three in this country, but yeah. [00:09:30] Wow. So, so it, it is a big deal. What does brain health mean? Well, it, it [00:09:35] actually means that everything we do.

[00:09:38] Everything we eat, [00:09:40] everything we experience actually leaves an imprint on our brain. And that can be [00:09:45] a positive imprint or a negative imprint. And what I mean by that is [00:09:50] we, you’ve probably heard of the term neuroplasticity.

[00:09:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:09:53] DR HP: Our brain [00:09:55] changes in response to each different activity performs. [00:10:00] And what that means is we can grow new brain cells.

[00:10:04] [00:10:05] We can lose brain cells. You know, you have an alcohol binge and you [00:10:10] know, you’ve, you’ve damaged quite a few brain cells. You know, you go for, [00:10:15] you know, you go for an intense exercise session, you know, a hit, [00:10:20] um, high intensity session. You’ve built a few brain cells so we [00:10:25] can make new brain cells, we can make new connections between brain cells.

[00:10:28] You do some really [00:10:30] intense, um, learning. Challenge yourself. Learn something new. You can. [00:10:35] You, you actually make new, new connections between brain cells. We can establish whole new circuits. We [00:10:40] can even change which cells perform, which functions, and this has revolutionized things like stroke [00:10:45] treatment.

[00:10:45] Mm-hmm. We used to think if somebody had a stroke and damaged part of their body, if they didn’t [00:10:50] get matter after a few better, after a few months of rehab, they probably never would.

[00:10:54] Hmm. [00:10:55] We

[00:10:55] DR HP: now know that with a specific intense form of therapy known as CIT, it stands for. [00:11:00] Constraint induced therapy cells from undamaged parts of the brain can be [00:11:05] recruited to take over the loss functions.

[00:11:07] Wow.

[00:11:07] DR HP: And I’ll give you an example of how they do that. It, it’s [00:11:10] relevant because you can extrapolate this to improve any brain function if you think you’re not [00:11:15] good at it. So basically they’ll get, say this is, say you’ve got, uh, the [00:11:20] left side was undamaged by the stroke, and the right hand is paralyzed. So they’re gonna [00:11:25] strap up the left side and say, you can’t use it.

[00:11:28] And they’re gonna put a glass of water, a [00:11:30] few millimeters in front of the fingertips of the damaged hand and say, try and touch the glass. [00:11:35] The person’s gonna go, I can’t. It’s, it’s paralyzed. Well just focus and try, try, try. And, [00:11:40] because it’s so close, they touch the glass and as soon as they’ve touch the glass, they push it a little bit further [00:11:45] away.

[00:11:45] They try again. And they practice this for several hours a day. But over the course of a few [00:11:50] months, they will regain the use of that paralyzed limb. And here’s the thing, even if your [00:11:55] stroke was years ago. You can still regain function. Never too late. It doesn’t [00:12:00] seem to ever be too late.

[00:12:01] Hmm.

[00:12:02] DR HP: Um, and when they scan the person’s brain, what’s [00:12:05] happened is cells have been recruited from other parts of the brain [00:12:10] and grow new nerve fibers.

[00:12:12] Fascinating. Isn’t that wonderful? Fascinat. So, so don’t ever [00:12:15] think that you can’t improve something, because in my experience, there’s always [00:12:20] something you can do to make, you know, to, to improve a situation [00:12:25] Now. There is no short answer to what are all the different things we can do to boost our [00:12:30] brain, because I’ve just said to you that everything we do has an impact on our brain.

[00:12:34] You know, [00:12:35] you, you wanna, you, you wanna bullet train to dementia, then drink to excess [00:12:40] smoke and vape, um, do no exercise, spend all day [00:12:45] indoors and just do, learn nothing new. Mm. I mean, that is a bullet train to [00:12:50] dementia. So. Let’s flip it around. I mean, in my, in my latest book, I’ve got 80 different ways that you [00:12:55] can boost your brain.

[00:12:56] I don’t think we’ll get through all of them today, but, but [00:13:00] it, it’s even hard to tease out which are the most important. But I’m [00:13:05] gonna start with cult, probably one that will, may surprise you. Culture cultivate [00:13:10] good relationships. Mm-hmm. Good relationships aren’t just a feel good thing. And, and I [00:13:15] mean, with family, with friends, with neighbors, with colleagues, clients.[00:13:20]

[00:13:20] Everyone you come in contact with, because good [00:13:25] relationships are the number one thing that will [00:13:30] boost one of the number one things that will boost your brain. [00:13:35] But it is the number one thing that will keep you healthy, happy, and live the [00:13:40] longest throughout your life. So why do you

[00:13:40] AJ: think that is?

[00:13:41] DR HP: Because good relationships [00:13:45] lower production of the hormone cortisol, which is our stress hormone.

[00:13:49] Reduce [00:13:50] inflammation, strengthen our immune system, make us feel [00:13:55] safe. Mm-hmm. Release a cocktail of feel good chemicals. All of these things are essential [00:14:00] for good brain function and good body function. You know, you want a strong immune system. You don’t want inflammation. These [00:14:05] are two main drivers of chronic disease.

[00:14:07] If good relationships are an antidote to that. [00:14:10] Then they’re gonna go a long way to preventing those diseases.

[00:14:12] AJ: Hmm. So I have a question for you [00:14:15] because as you’re talking about that, I can’t get it out of my brain. What you said earlier [00:14:20] about the number one leading cause of death for Australian women, and [00:14:25] you said another country as well, the uk.

[00:14:26] The UK is dementia.

[00:14:28] DR HP: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:29] AJ: Why [00:14:30] is that? I, is that connected to a lack of strong relationships in community? Like

[00:14:34] DR HP: what we are [00:14:35] not a hundred percent sure. That is still a big area of research. Several reasons have been [00:14:40] postulated. One is the estrogen hypothesis.

[00:14:44] Mm-hmm. [00:14:45]

[00:14:45] DR HP: When, when a woman hits menopause, there is a very abrupt drop in estrogen [00:14:50] levels.

[00:14:50] Estrogen is a really vital, um, hormone for good brain [00:14:55] health. Yeah, on a lot of reasons. You know, estrogen helps us use [00:15:00] glucose for energy in the brain. Estrogen actually, uh, [00:15:05] helps to keep nerve cells healthy. You know, brain cells healthy, [00:15:10] uh, helps to eliminate toxins. So you suddenly lose that hormone. You [00:15:15] suddenly lose a lot of protective functions in your brain.[00:15:20]

[00:15:20] Um, what we’ve found is that women who have. Early, you know, [00:15:25] premature menopause, which means a removal of her uterus or [00:15:30] ovaries significantly increased risk of dementia [00:15:35] unless they get hormone replacement therapy. Interesting. [00:15:40] So it does seem to be there, there may be an estrogen connection. [00:15:45] Um, and a couple, yes.

[00:15:49] AJ: Gotta [00:15:50] cut this. I got

[00:15:53] cough jobs

[00:15:53] AJ: for you. I swallowed the wrong [00:15:55] way. Hold on.[00:16:00]

[00:16:02] I was trying not to cough and swallowed and then I made [00:16:05] it worse.[00:16:10]

[00:16:13] Okay. I’m gonna pop [00:16:15] this in just to make sure I don’t cough anymore. Okay, hold on. Now I have watery [00:16:20] eyes.

[00:16:23] All right. [00:16:25] All right. So I want you to start back up with [00:16:30] when, uh, women start, like early menopause because they [00:16:35] lost an ovary or the uterus. So can we start right there? [00:16:40]

[00:16:40] DR HP: Yes. Okay.

[00:16:41] AJ: Ready? Go.

[00:16:44] DR HP: If a [00:16:45] woman has premature menopause, in other words, she has her uterus removed or [00:16:50] ovaries removed, usually for good reason, not just willy-nilly, um, that significantly [00:16:55] increases her risk of getting dementia because it, it’s an abrupt [00:17:00] cessation of estrogen production.

[00:17:02] So there, there really does seem to be an [00:17:05] estrogen connection there. Other things have been postulated. Um, [00:17:10] when a woman sustains a head injury, she doesn’t. Recover as well. As a man, [00:17:15] we are not sure why, possibly because men tend to have stronger neck muscles, so maybe [00:17:20] when she has head injury, there’s more rattling of the brain, more, more damaged [00:17:25] connections.

[00:17:25] There could be. In the past, women were less [00:17:30] educated, had less stimulating work, so they didn’t get the same mental stimulation. [00:17:35] That men did.

[00:17:36] Interesting. Um,

[00:17:37] DR HP: perhaps women are less physically active and, [00:17:40] and, you know, apart from relationships, physical ex, you must move [00:17:45] for your brain. Forget the, you know, I wanna go to the gym to lose weight.

[00:17:49] [00:17:50] Who cares? That’s the least important reason to go to the gym. But for brain health, it’s for brain health. And it’s [00:17:55] not, it’s every aspect of physical exercise. Sorry, I’m transitioning very quickly from [00:18:00] relationships to exercise, but, but. You have to move if you wanna maintain your brain [00:18:05] health.

[00:18:05] AJ: Like how much movement.

[00:18:07] DR HP: Okay. Firstly, I’ll give the three [00:18:10] types. Aerobic exercise, endurance training, strength training, [00:18:15] strong muscles equate to a strong mind and balance [00:18:20] as well. Good balance. So it appear, it [00:18:25] appears that, you know, the 150 minutes per week is probably. [00:18:30] Probably o you know enough, but if you can do a bit more, that’s great.

[00:18:34] Doing [00:18:35] high intensity interval training is really good, is better than just low level. But, [00:18:40] but let me just say, I don’t wanna put people off. Any movement is better than no movement, even five minutes a [00:18:45] day. So, for, and, and the reason, okay, people go, but why is exercise so good for the brain? [00:18:50] Yes, we get more blood flowing to the brain.

[00:18:53] More oxygen, more nutrients. [00:18:55] But there. You’ve heard of the gut brain connection? Sure. There’s a muscle [00:19:00] brain connection. When we move our muscles, they produce a cocktail of chemicals called myokines. [00:19:05] Scientists have tried to bottle these, but there’s too many of them and they have too many complex functions.[00:19:10]

[00:19:10] Myokines circulate in our blood to go to all our organs and keep our organs [00:19:15] healthy in various ways, particularly in relation to the brain. We produce a chemical when [00:19:20] we exercise. Whether it’s weight training or whether it’s, um, sprinting or [00:19:25] jogging or cycling or swimming or dancing, we produce a chemical in the brain called [00:19:30] BDNF.

[00:19:30] It stands for brain derived neurotrophic factor, and [00:19:35] this neurotransmitter actually stimulates the growth of new brain cells and new [00:19:40] connections between brain cells. And here in the states, they’ve actually done, um, studies [00:19:45] on school children where if they do. Um, exercise before their [00:19:50] exams, before their harder subjects.

[00:19:51] They do better because our brain does perform at its [00:19:55] best in that first hour after we engage in any sort of physical activity. [00:20:00] So, mm.

[00:20:01] AJ: So I have a question for you then.

[00:20:04] Yeah.

[00:20:04] AJ: [00:20:05] Knowing that we have this sitting epidemic Mm. Um, behind [00:20:10] laptops and behind screens and just very sedentary professional [00:20:15] environments for the majority of the days, including in school.

[00:20:17] Yes. Right. Specifically our [00:20:20] elementary and middle schools, which is just devastatingly sad. What are [00:20:25] the, the quick things to do if you’re, you know, at a desk all day? [00:20:30]

[00:20:30] DR HP: Couple of things we can do, but number one, I I, I wanna just acknowledge that sitting is the new smoking. [00:20:35] Mm-hmm. That people who sit for more than 11 hours a day, and that sounds ridiculous, but I [00:20:40] have colleagues, you know, people with desk jobs that drive an hour to work, sit at their desk nine to 10 hours, that’s drive [00:20:45] an hour back.

[00:20:45] That’s 11 hours. That person is at 40% increased risk of early death [00:20:50] from heart disease, stroke, cancer, complications of diabetes, [00:20:55] dementia. So it is a serious issue and it’s dose dependent. The longer you sit, the worse you [00:21:00] are. Why sitting so hazardous? Because whenever we sit, there’s no electrical activity in our [00:21:05] biggest muscles, which are our quads and our glutes, and.

[00:21:08] Uh, and we [00:21:10] also produce, and, and that sort of means the fats and the sugars stagnate in our blood. Mm-hmm. But also we [00:21:15] produce the opposite of mykines. We produce cytokines when we just sit. [00:21:20] Cytokines are pro-inflammatory molecules, and it means we’re [00:21:25] in a low level state of inflammation. So that’s not good.

[00:21:28] So what can we do? [00:21:30] Couple of things. Number one. Unfortunately, even if you flog yourself at the gym for an hour a [00:21:35] day, you’re not undoing all the damage of prolonged sitting. Some, but not all. [00:21:40] The simplest way is to just break up the sitting time every 20 to 30 minutes. Just [00:21:45] stand up for two minutes. You don’t have to go skipping a rope, but that would be great if you [00:21:50] did running up downstairs.

[00:21:51] But just stand up every 20 to 30 minutes and when I’m writing my books. [00:21:55] I have a timer that goes off every half hour. It’s just easier every half hour.

[00:21:59] Hmm.

[00:21:59] DR HP: And I [00:22:00] have a little standing, just a cheap little standing desk. So quickly move it across and [00:22:05] just type for a little while standing. ’cause I don’t wanna lose my train of thought or whatever.

[00:22:09] Sure. But, so [00:22:10] you just interrupt that sitting time and you know, all my lawyer friends break out in a cold [00:22:15] sweat because every six minutes is a billable unit, Uhhuh. And they don’t wanna lose. [00:22:20] Billable units. I said, but it’s not dead time. You can talk on the phone, you can read, you can still type. So just break [00:22:25] it up.

[00:22:25] AJ: Okay. So, I mean, I think that’s, I think that’s a huge thing because like even on days like [00:22:30] today I am doing several different interviews back to back to back. And it’s like, [00:22:35] I know that it, like during my quick breaks, it’s like I have to go and stand ’cause I can must, I can literally [00:22:40] feel it. Yes. Like kinda like stagnating.

[00:22:42] Yes. So what would you say. Um, [00:22:45] and people are

[00:22:45] DR HP: more tired when they sit all day than when they break it up.

[00:22:48] AJ: Yeah. And

[00:22:49] DR HP: they think, you just [00:22:50] think sitting, prolonged sitting is one cause of brain fog. But go on. I

[00:22:53] AJ: interrupted. Oh, and ’cause I [00:22:55] would love to talk more about this brain fog. So I’m curious to see what do you think are some of [00:23:00] the trends in workplace environments?

[00:23:02] Um, have you seen anywhere they are [00:23:05] doing more standing desks or like, my big Christmas present this year was a standing desk and [00:23:10] a walking pad. Right. So like yesterday I broke, I have to brag on myself ’cause I [00:23:15] broke my stepping record. I did 30,000 steps yesterday. Wow. Because it’s like for five [00:23:20] hours.

[00:23:20] Yes. I’m just like, yes, it’s low speed, it’s low impact, but I’m just like, f calls all [00:23:25] day. Might as well just step it out. Um, but there are so many work [00:23:30] environments where like you could do that. But yet we’re not. Have you [00:23:35] seen any trends in any countries or any companies where like they’re really bringing this in, [00:23:40] not just for the health, the, like the personal health, which is vitally important.

[00:23:44] We [00:23:45] gotta own that as individuals, but to hear everything that you’re saying, like, Hey, it boosts creativity, it, it boosts [00:23:50] productivity, like all the quote unquote corporate benefits that this [00:23:55] has. Surely companies are taking notice

[00:23:57] DR HP: nowhere near enough. There was a trend. [00:24:00] Uh, maybe a decade maybe. Yeah, maybe.

[00:24:03] Five, 10 years ago. Yeah, people started to get [00:24:05] standing desks and have meetings on the move. And meetings are so much more [00:24:10] productive if you’re standing or if you can, you know, have a rooftop, the garden or do it outdoors [00:24:15] or in nature, so much more productive. But sadly, people sort of [00:24:20] start and then it peters out and it hasn’t been kept up nearly enough.

[00:24:24] AJ: [00:24:25] Well, I, ’cause you said something is, I know some

[00:24:26] DR HP: companies are doing it,

[00:24:28] AJ: but not enough. But not

[00:24:28] DR HP: enough.

[00:24:29] AJ: But you, because [00:24:30] you said something and I brought this up before this started, this quote unquote mom brain, our brain [00:24:35] fog. And what I have noticed, at least for myself, I’d be curious to hear from like an actual [00:24:40] doctor on this.

[00:24:40] It’s like. The longer that I’m just sitting doing the same thing, it’s like the foggier my [00:24:45] brain gets. Mm. Like, is that just me? No. Or is that like a real thing

[00:24:48] DR HP: that, oh, that’s definitely a [00:24:50] real thing. You need to break up your focus. Um, so [00:24:55] again, if you want to sort of clear your head especially. Okay. [00:25:00] I’m gonna backtrack just a little bit.

[00:25:02] A major cause of brain fog for a lot of people is just not getting enough [00:25:05] sleep.

[00:25:05] Hmm.

[00:25:06] DR HP: Most people need seven to nine hours. Most people are not getting seven to [00:25:10] nine hours. I, I get it that the demands of life are great, but you’re just not gonna be [00:25:15] firing on all cylinders if you don’t get enough sleep.

[00:25:17] Sleep is when our brain detoxifies [00:25:20] magic happens. When we sleep in our brain. The spaces between our brain cells actually [00:25:25] expand and what’s known as glymphatic fluid. Flushes out the [00:25:30] toxins.

[00:25:30] Mm.

[00:25:30] DR HP: And if you are not asleep for long enough, you don’t get rid of the toxins. And those [00:25:35] toxins then build up over time and create more and more brain fog.

[00:25:37] AJ: So why aren’t people getting enough sleep? I’m, [00:25:40] I’m one of those few people where I sleep nine hours.

[00:25:42] DR HP: Fantastic. But

[00:25:44] AJ: my husband [00:25:45] is, has convinced himself that he only needs six hours. And it’s [00:25:50] like, I think you’re wrong. But I’m not a doctor.

[00:25:53] DR HP: Okay. 3% of the [00:25:55] population have the short sleep gene and they can get away with less.

[00:25:59] Whether Rory [00:26:00] is one of those, I don’t know. Most people overestimate that they have the [00:26:05] short sleep gene, so I’d be wary about that

[00:26:07] AJ: because he says he, he’s like, I literally can’t [00:26:10] sleep longer. Okay. And so I guess for me, like, why aren’t people sleeping like. [00:26:15] Because they’ve, they’ve got children and

[00:26:18] DR HP: jobs to hold [00:26:20] down and, and there’s definitely the children part for sure.

[00:26:23] Yes. Just because they’ve [00:26:25] put just modern living. Mm-hmm. So many demands. Getting children to [00:26:30] school, getting self to work, preparing meals, just getting [00:26:35] everything done. I think people tell themselves that, that. They’ve just got so much on their, they

[00:26:39] AJ: [00:26:40] deprioritize sleep to get the rest of life done. Yes.

[00:26:41] Basically.

[00:26:41] DR HP: Basically it’s deprioritizing sleep, but we have to, I mean, we [00:26:45] make the worst decisions. We eat badly when, when we wake up sleep [00:26:50] deprived. We will have high levels of the, of the hormone cortisol throughout the [00:26:55] day. Cortisol, remember the stress hormone? That means we feel stressed before anything has even happened.[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:02] DR HP: Sleep deprivation, um, [00:27:05] dampens the hormone leptin, which makes us feel full and, and increases [00:27:10] levels of the hormone ghrelin, which makes us hungry. And not only that, we don’t not, we’re not hungry for [00:27:15] Brussels sprouts. We’re hungry for junk food, for sugar, for quick fixes. [00:27:20] You know, we, we are more angry.

[00:27:23] We, we snap more just. [00:27:25] All the things I, I, I can just tell you an example of something, um, that happened in Australia, in [00:27:30] Brisbane. Um, there was a big event, a lot of police involved. And, and on the last day, a young police officer [00:27:35] was asked to take a bag of guns back to the police station, and we got, when he got to the police station, [00:27:40] he realized he’d forgotten the guns at the train station.[00:27:45]

[00:27:45] And, and there was this major like investigation. How on earth could a [00:27:50] police officer do something so stupid? Simple answer. He was really, he’d been work, he’d [00:27:55] done, I dunno how many days in a row, sleep deprived and it was sleep deprived. Mm-hmm. We do really dumb things when [00:28:00] we’re sleep deprived, so, so I think chronic sleep deprivation, you know, [00:28:05] contributes to brain fog, dehydration, and especially if you’re sleep [00:28:10] deprived, you need to drink more water.

[00:28:12] Again, it’s ’cause of a hormonal thing. I’m not gonna, well, the

[00:28:14] AJ: [00:28:15] detoxification right. Like the more water you drink, does that help? Just deep talk. That too. But it’s,

[00:28:19] DR HP: it’s [00:28:20] also, well just, just dehydration. Your brain needs water. Um, so the longer you’re awake, you just [00:28:25] need more. That’s right. Yes, exactly. Um, and taking [00:28:30] micro breaks, even just, you know, every 40.[00:28:35]

[00:28:35] Minutes to an hour. Don’t leave it much long. Don’t leave it more than more than an hour. [00:28:40] Take micro breaks. And what I mean by that is shift your focus from your desk, from your [00:28:45] computer, preferably just to nature.

[00:28:48] Mm.

[00:28:48] DR HP: Go and find a garden, [00:28:50] a go to garden. If nothing else, just see if you can get a picture of [00:28:55] nature.

[00:28:55] Looking at an urban environment isn’t as rejuvenating, but going for a [00:29:00] walk in nature, nature nurtures us. That is another thing that. [00:29:05] It heals our body, heals our brain, be for for many reasons. Number one, you’ve heard of the [00:29:10] microbiome, which is the trillions of bacteria in our gut. There is also an [00:29:15] aero biome, trillions of bacteria in the air, in nature.

[00:29:19] [00:29:20] When we inhale them, not just the bacteria, but also [00:29:25] chemicals called phyton sides, which are produced by trees, they strengthen our immune [00:29:30] system. They lower our blood pressure. They lower levels of the hormone [00:29:35] cortisol. Nature will energize us if we are tired. Nature [00:29:40] will calm us down if we are stressed.

[00:29:43] A bonus tip for you, if you’re ever in [00:29:45] hospital, ask for a room with a view of nature because hospital patients that [00:29:50] look out onto nature heal more quickly, need fewer painkillers, get [00:29:55] out of hospital sooner.

[00:29:56] AJ: Wow.

[00:29:57] DR HP: Prison. If you’re ever in prison, ask for a cell with [00:30:00] a view of nature. Let’s hope

[00:30:00] AJ: I am. Never in prison.

[00:30:01] No, but

[00:30:02] DR HP: just, just in case. Prisoners who look [00:30:05] out onto whose cells look out onto nature, they get sick less often. They better behave. They get outta [00:30:10] prison sooner. Phenomenal.

[00:30:12] AJ: Okay, so I, I have to stop because it’s like [00:30:15] these are seemingly so simple. Simple that we [00:30:20] ignore them.

[00:30:20] DR HP: Yes. Yes. That is the danger of this.

[00:30:22] That is the problem with this. It’s like, [00:30:25] yeah, I know I should eat better. I know I should exercise. I know I should get out into nature. By the way, [00:30:30] just to complete that 17 and a half minutes a day, 120 minutes a week, [00:30:35] they’ve done studies in England to find how much you need, how much nature you need to stay [00:30:40] healthy.

[00:30:40] So 120 minutes a week, combine it with [00:30:45] exercise, and you’ve killed two birds with one stone.

[00:30:47] AJ: Why don’t we do it? Like, I mean, these are [00:30:50] things that’s like, none of this is necessarily revolutionary. We all know it. [00:30:55] Uh, we know that we need to sleep, we know we should eat healthy. We know [00:31:00] we should drink water.

[00:31:01] Uh, most of us know we should spend out time outside. Most of us [00:31:05] know we should be moving. We’ve been hearing this for decades now, that sitting [00:31:10] does damage long term and yet we’re not doing [00:31:15] it.

[00:31:16] DR HP: Not a strong enough. Why Friedrich Nietzche. He who has [00:31:20] a powerful why can conquer any unknown how? Mm. I think it’s just when people are not sold [00:31:25] enough that this makes enough of a difference and it makes a huge difference.

[00:31:28] But I, I think [00:31:30] people don’t realize that it makes that much difference and it’s like, [00:31:35] oh, I just can’t be bothered. It’s, it’s sort of a, a negative perpetuating spiral. If you wake up [00:31:40] tired and sleep deprived, you’re less motivated. You don’t have the energy to exercise. It’s all too, [00:31:45] everything’s too hard.

[00:31:45] So it kind of starts with that. Then exercise [00:31:50] actually energizes. If you’re sitting all day, that comp, that makes you even more tired, so you’re even less [00:31:55] motivated. Then, um, you know, you have a sugary breakfast, like another big brain [00:32:00] booster. I’m sorry, quit the Coke and sugary beverages. Every [00:32:05] soft drink is a bullet to our brain.

[00:32:07] Unfortunately, fruit juices as well. [00:32:10] Because it’s a massive hit of sugar in a very small amount of time. Even if it’s

[00:32:13] AJ: all natural, no sugar [00:32:15] added it correct. It’s still so much concentrated. If you like fruit,

[00:32:18] DR HP: eat it. Don’t drink it [00:32:20] because how much, how, how many apples would you, you eat in one sitting? [00:32:25]

[00:32:25] AJ: One.

[00:32:25] DR HP: One. You can’t, not 20 not, but in a little apple juice, [00:32:30] minimum, three, four apples. That is a big, it’s just too much, too [00:32:35] much sugar. Now why is sugar damaging to the brain? I’ll spare you all the biochemistry. [00:32:40] Suffice to say, um, sugar is sucrose two smaller and it’s [00:32:45] made up of two smaller sugar molecules, fructose and glucose.

[00:32:48] The fructose [00:32:50] molecule is the more damaging when it hits your brain, it actually [00:32:55] to break that molecule down. It drains your brain cells of energy.

[00:32:59] It

[00:32:59] DR HP: does [00:33:00] not, fructose does not give you energy. Glucose does. But too much of it is a bad thing [00:33:05] too. But fructose actually drains brain cells of energy. It impedes [00:33:10] communication between brain cells, fructose messes with genes in two [00:33:15] really important areas of our brain, the hippocampus, our learning and memory warehouse, and our [00:33:20] hypothalamus, which regulates all our hormones.

[00:33:22] So you drink that [00:33:25] massive dose of sugar, and it’s like machine gunfire to your brain. And [00:33:30] yeah, you’ll get that initial high for a short amount of time ’cause you get that glucose, but then you [00:33:35] get that massive crash and then you’ve gotta start all over again.

[00:33:37] AJ: Because I have a personal question ’cause I have two [00:33:40] little boys who are ages five and seven.

[00:33:42] Um, so all things kid related are [00:33:45] just very top of mind for me, 24 7. Knowing everything that you’ve just [00:33:50] said, why do all of these companies then create [00:33:55] all of these things that you’re just talking about and gear them to children?

[00:33:59] DR HP: [00:34:00] Profit over people.

[00:34:01] AJ: I mean, it’s

[00:34:02] DR HP: absurd. It is absurd. Uh, it it [00:34:05] because it’s a trillion dollar industry.

[00:34:07] Let me just give you one thing, just just as an [00:34:10] example. If you changed nothing in your life but you decided you’d add one [00:34:15] small can of soft drink, I think, I dunno how many, we have three 30 mils, I dunno what [00:34:20] you’ve got here. Eight ounces. Eight ounces. That’s all. You just added that to your life. [00:34:25] You changed nothing else.

[00:34:25] By the end of the year, you would be six and a half to seven kilograms heavier. Just from that [00:34:30] one can of soft drink. You’d have a 22% increased risk of diabetes [00:34:35] and your risk of all chronic diseases will have skyrocketed and you are [00:34:40] eroding your brain function. Now, if you are a young, you see all the [00:34:45] studies they do on soft drinks, where they go, they don’t do any harm.

[00:34:48] They do them on young [00:34:50] fit, super athletic men. And they tell them to sip that soft drink [00:34:55] over an hour or two. Nobody sips a soft drink over an hour or two, [00:35:00] and so they can fudge the results. So I’m really, you know, I’m not a [00:35:05] conspiracy theorist. However, money talks, you know, fast [00:35:10] food companies like. Uh, quit all the junk food mm-hmm.

[00:35:13] Out there [00:35:15] because our body and brain was not designed to handle all these chemicals. Mm-hmm. [00:35:20] We simply weren’t. What’s my best dietary advice? It doesn’t matter if you are [00:35:25] vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, or carnivore. It doesn’t matter as long as you eat food that’s from [00:35:30] the land, from the sea, from the sky, or from a tree, not from a packet, not from a tin.

[00:35:34] If it [00:35:35] comes in the box, I’d throw it in the bin. I listen to your, uh, that’s so good. I listened to your, [00:35:40] or most of your podcasts, but, but, um, co Dr. Cody, Dr. Cody Goldman [00:35:45] Coleman

[00:35:45] AJ: mm-hmm.

[00:35:45] DR HP: Where you said, oh, I don’t eat sugar. This is, I get this all the time [00:35:50] with my patients. I don’t eat sugar. How did I get diabetes?

[00:35:52] When I don’t eat sugar? I do [00:35:55] the same thing. Go through your pantry and do an order. It was frightening. And it’s, it’s, it’s [00:36:00] terrifying. It was frightening. Every, everything from everything savory has sugar in it, from mayonnaise to, I was [00:36:05] shocked. Bread crackers, frozen meals, teriyaki sauce, sweet chili [00:36:10] sauce, salad dressings

[00:36:11] AJ: everywhere, everywhere.

[00:36:12] Just everything. Sugar and oils. Whereas in everything, [00:36:15] I could not cottage cheese, weave my own eyes. I, it was in everything.

[00:36:19] DR HP: It’s in [00:36:20] everything. So, so sugar is in everything and it’s, so, it’s hidden. That’s right. [00:36:25] Today. By the time a child is eight years old, they’ve already consumed [00:36:30] more sugar than the average person had in their entire life a century ago.[00:36:35]

[00:36:35] So it’s. Birthdays happen once a year for a reason. So you eat sugar once a [00:36:40] year?

[00:36:40] AJ: That’s right. That’s gonna be the new policy at my house. Sugar once a year. I mean, I’m not, [00:36:45] but I mean there’s plenty of natural sugar you can eat. Absolutely. In,

[00:36:47] DR HP: in, in your

[00:36:48] AJ: fruit. I mean, you get a good, ripe [00:36:50] piece of fruit and it’s like, it is a burst of sugar in your mouth.

[00:36:53] Burst of sugar.

[00:36:54] DR HP: Especially [00:36:55] if you’ve eliminated all the added sugar, you actually taste it more when I eliminate and that’s what

[00:36:59] AJ: it is. Our [00:37:00] taste buds have been so. You know, hammered. Yes. They’ve been so like [00:37:05] tapered down by all this other stuff that we can’t even taste the goodness of real whole food.[00:37:10]

[00:37:10] DR HP: And here’s the other problem, people don’t realize just how harmful junk food is and how [00:37:15] harmful soft drinks are there is. They go everything in moderation. No, no, no. We’ve lost touch [00:37:20] with what’s moderation, right? There is some work. Would you eat chew polish in moderation just because it tasted good. [00:37:25] So I put, would you smoke in moderation?

[00:37:29] No, you wouldn’t, [00:37:30] because there is no safe level of cigarette consumption that is so good. There is no safe level of soft drink consumption. [00:37:35] I’m sorry. There just isn’t. And there is really no safe level of junk food consumption. That doesn’t [00:37:40] mean you never eat cake or you never had B biscuits, but it just means [00:37:45] it’s a.

[00:37:47] Special occasion thing. Mm-hmm. And guess [00:37:50] what? Not every day you will enjoy it more. When I was a child, [00:37:55] Serbian sort of tradition, we had only a particular cake that you would eat, [00:38:00] um, at Christmas and at name day and at Easter. [00:38:05] And boy, I so looked forward to it. Mm-hmm. And boy, I savor it. And [00:38:10] you know, I wouldn’t have my whole piece today, so I’d have some more tomorrow and it would just last longer.

[00:38:14] Mm-hmm. [00:38:15] People don’t look forward to any food anymore because it’s every day. They can have [00:38:20] anything anytime, any day. You actually enjoy your food more [00:38:25] when you have it less often, and when you really savor it, um, [00:38:30] we don’t overeat because something tastes too good. We overeat because we’re [00:38:35] not paying attention to what we’re eating and we’re overeating because it’s not really satisfying.[00:38:40]

[00:38:41] One way, I, one thing I do with my patients too that go, ah, I just, this. [00:38:45] I could never give up X food. Let’s say it’s Krispy Kreme donuts, but I’m just using that as an [00:38:50] example. I go, okay, next time, please bring in a Krispy Kreme donut and we’re gonna eat it together. [00:38:55] And they go, what? Bring in a Krispy Kreme donut the next visit.

[00:38:59] So they do, and I go, [00:39:00] right, you are gonna eat this donut. Like you’ve never, ever, ever eaten it before. [00:39:05] Smell it. Don’t, don’t even eat. Just look at it first. Smell it. Take in the take in [00:39:10] the scent. Just, you know, what sort of flavors are you smelling it? Take a [00:39:15] bite, really try and absorb all the flavors. So eating really [00:39:20] mindfully after three bites, it’s like I’ve had enough

[00:39:23] Mm

[00:39:24] DR HP: I, [00:39:25] I can’t eat anymore.

[00:39:25] It’s too sweet. But you never paid attention until now. [00:39:30] And once you get rid of all the artificial, I say [00:39:35] artificially sweeten. I don’t mean using artificial sweetness, but that too is not good for a different reason. [00:39:40] But once you acclimatize your taste buds to real food. [00:39:45] Cashews and macadamia. Nuts are sweet.

[00:39:47] Milk is sweet. [00:39:50] Like, it’s like I don’t often drink raw milk, but occasionally I’ll just have a, [00:39:55] it’s thick and cream, it’s really sweet. And, and, and don’t get me started on, [00:40:00] um, the, the plant-based milks. Nothing wrong with almond milk [00:40:05] except that they add sugar, sunflower oil, artificial colorings, flavoring.[00:40:10]

[00:40:11] I had a girlfriend come and stay with me once who only drank soy milk. Nothing wrong with [00:40:15] soy milk. I went to the supermarket. My husband was just over it ’cause I was half an hour [00:40:20] reading all the labels trying to find a soy milk that I could morally buy for her. And not [00:40:25] po feel I was poisoning her. Um, I finally found one and ’cause all I had is soybeans and [00:40:30] water uhhuh.

[00:40:31] So I brought, I was so proud of myself. She said, I’ve never tried this [00:40:35] brand before. Tried nearly spat it out. Said, this is the worst soy milk I’ve ever tasted. [00:40:40] I said, that’s because it’s only soybeans and water. Yours probably has sugar, added sugar. [00:40:45] Um, most of them have, what else? Some kind of oils. Anyway, all I’m saying is [00:40:50] we don’t realize how damaging the food is because safety in numbers, if everybody’s [00:40:55] doing it, it should be fine.

[00:40:55] It should be fine, but you are too young. But doctors used to [00:41:00] advertise their favorite cigarettes. We get it wrong and we’ve gotta admit [00:41:05] that, you know, when we got it wrong with cigarettes. We’ve got it wrong with soft drinks and [00:41:10] juices and we’ve got it wrong with junk food. It is really harmful.

[00:41:13] AJ: You, my [00:41:15] friend, need to be plastered on billboards all across the world saying this because it is the [00:41:20] truth.

[00:41:20] And honestly, what we’re not hearing right now is truth. That’s right. Right. We’re hearing [00:41:25] a whole bunch of stuff. Uh, now here in the US you probably don’t follow as much of the [00:41:30] politics. Uh, but it was fascinating just a few weeks ago to hear the [00:41:35] American Heart Association. Mm. On the stand [00:41:40] saying that they disagreed with a lot of the new Make America healthy [00:41:45] again, you know, bans and practices and it was the American Heart Association and [00:41:50] going, well, we just don’t agree and we’re just sitting here going, look, watching this court appeal going, [00:41:55] what do you not agree with?

[00:41:56] No, I was gonna say, what do they not agree with? That all of the artificial [00:42:00] foods, uh, have a negative impact on heart Help. [00:42:05] But they, it’s, but they do. They do. They do. And it was just [00:42:10] fascinating to listen to these representatives going, well, there’s just not enough proof for us to make an [00:42:15] official stand.

[00:42:15] There is, there is, but at the end of the day, it’s like, who are they funded by? [00:42:20] Who are they funded by? Exactly. And so, uh, I was gonna tell you this quick, uh, thing because, [00:42:25] uh, it’s a, ever since I have. Radically become aware of this in my own [00:42:30] life and throughout all the package things, and read labels like a crazy person takes me two hours to go grocery [00:42:35] shopping every single time.

[00:42:36] Yes. Which is why you just stay and we call it perimeter shopping. Yes. So we [00:42:40] never go down the aisles. No. It’s just perimeter shopping. Um, but I give my kids an opportunity [00:42:45] every single time they go to the store with me, and here’s their opportunity. I’ll buy [00:42:50] anything that you want, as long as it has less than four [00:42:55] ingredients and less than four grams of sugar.

[00:42:57] DR HP: Wonderful.

[00:42:57] AJ: And if you can find it, bring it to [00:43:00] me and I will buy it for you.

[00:43:02] DR HP: Great.

[00:43:03] AJ: And you know what, they’re always [00:43:05] like, mom, that doesn’t exist. There is nothing. And I’m like, yet there [00:43:10] is, it’s called a banana, an orange, an apple. It’s called broccoli. It’s, [00:43:15] and it’s, it’s been fascinating for my kids because then anytime that we’re out, they’ll just [00:43:20] ask, does this have four grams of sugar?

[00:43:22] And so it’s

[00:43:22] DR HP: like, it’s so good,

[00:43:23] AJ: but it’s, but it. It [00:43:25] is that ’cause

[00:43:25] DR HP: because a child shouldn’t be having more than four grams of sugar a day sugar. And it’s like if I has more than four

[00:43:29] AJ: [00:43:30] ingredients, sugar, and if I cannot pronounce them, we cannot buy them. Mm. Right. We cannot. Fantastic. [00:43:35] I’ve become my, Rory teases me, he goes, baby, you’re just one step away from full blown hippie right now [00:43:40] because I bought my own almond milk maker.

[00:43:42] Wow. Right. The almond cow. Highly [00:43:45] recommended, uh, no affiliate fees, just really like it. And uh, you add almonds and water. [00:43:50] Fantastic. And then. Voila. Overnight, you wake up and you have fresh [00:43:55] almond milk and, but it is one of those things where it’s like, there’s so many tools at our [00:44:00] disposal to make it just as easy.

[00:44:01] Like, I’m not saying it’s just as easy of buying a carton from the [00:44:05] store, but kind of it is. I buy a bag, it’s a vomit, I throw [00:44:10] it in, I add the water, I turn it on, and I walk away. But it, it’s a mindset, [00:44:15] it’s a choice. And I’m only so passionate about this because a year ago I woke [00:44:20] up to. All the lies that I had been fed and was believing, which is [00:44:25] I’m healthy.

[00:44:26] Mm. And I wasn’t like I was facing [00:44:30] chronic illness with gallstones and my gallbladder disease and I wasn’t healthy and, but I thought I [00:44:35] was. Yes. And that was the problem. And that is the problem. That’s the problem. I thought I was, people

[00:44:39] DR HP: aren’t in enough [00:44:40] pain uhhuh that that’s the problem. And, and. People don’t [00:44:45] realize how good they can feel.

[00:44:47] People don’t realize just how much more [00:44:50] sharply they could think, how much better they could concentrate. You know, the norm is to [00:44:55] feel tired and run down every day, and so people have forgotten. Just [00:45:00] how healthy it’s been. Normalized it’s possible to be

[00:45:02] AJ: sickness has been normalized. Yes it has. Right?

[00:45:04] Foggy [00:45:05] brain, mom brain. I remember, um, you know, after children as I kept saying like, [00:45:10] oh man, mom, brain is real. Um, and what it, I didn’t click to me as like, no. What’s [00:45:15] real is sleep deprivation. Yes. Right. That is real. And because of that, I have, [00:45:20] quote unquote mom brain, foggy brain. A couple of things I want to,

[00:45:24] DR HP: uh, [00:45:25] address on that.

[00:45:25] Number one there. A [00:45:30] mom brain, your the brain changes a bit because now your priority is your children. [00:45:35] So if you would ab observe yourself, your brain is [00:45:40] actually sharper in relation to anything to do with your children.

[00:45:43] Mm.

[00:45:43] DR HP: Uh, in terms of [00:45:45] hearing Oh, absolutely. Your, your, your hearing is sharper in terms of [00:45:50] recognizing in the distance that your child is crying.

[00:45:53] Um, [00:45:55] so there are certain. That’s true. That’s true. I haven’t been a mother, so I don’t know all the details, but I [00:46:00] do know that the brain changes in a positive way in order for you to protect your children. [00:46:05] But what we notice is the ne because [00:46:10] that’s just how we program. We notice more that, that, you know, we are more tired.[00:46:15]

[00:46:15] Um, we tend to multitask more. Mm-hmm. Which drains the brain of energy, which increases the [00:46:20] brain fog as well. Mm-hmm. Um, another quick way to brain fog is to multitask all the time. [00:46:25] Now we, there are times when you have to multitask and there are two different types of [00:46:30] multitasking, by the way. There is multitasking where one thing is automatic, [00:46:35] like you can walk and talk that’s multitasking, but you don’t have to go, I have to put one foot in [00:46:40] front of the, that’s right.

[00:46:40] Other, so there is type, that type of multitasking is fine, [00:46:45] but it’s when you’ve got highly cerebral mm-hmm. You know, mentally [00:46:50] demanding tasks, the brain is not able to multi. Focus. [00:46:55] Mm, that’s good. The brain is only able to focus on one thing at a time. So if you’re multitasking, [00:47:00] you are very rapidly switching your attention from one thing to the next, to the next.

[00:47:04] Mm. And then back to the [00:47:05] first thing. So that means, you know, if you are talking to somebody on the phone, but also reading an [00:47:10] email at the same time, uh, then you are gonna lose. [00:47:15] Information one way or the other. Yeah, you’re gonna pick lose information from that email. You’re not gonna pick up [00:47:20] everything that the person’s saying.

[00:47:21] You’re more likely to make mistakes, you’re more likely to feel stressed, and [00:47:25] you’re more likely to feel tired after that conversation. Uh, and they’ve actually done studies where they’ve compared [00:47:30] people and they’ve said, you’ve gotta get these five tasks done. You in this room [00:47:35] multitask you in this room, must only do one thing at a time.

[00:47:38] And they time them. And then [00:47:40] they see who makes more mistakes and they just sort of question them afterwards. Now the people who multitask [00:47:45] think Uhhuh that they’ve done better a hundred percent of the time. [00:47:50] The mono taskers, do it faster, do it better, [00:47:55] make fewer mistakes,

[00:47:56] AJ: you know? And I love what you said, it’s not multitasking, it’s your brain can’t multi [00:48:00] focus.

[00:48:00] That’s

[00:48:00] DR HP: right. We can multitask. We can’t multi focus.

[00:48:02] AJ: That’s so good. All right, so Dr. [00:48:05] Elena, I could spend. The rest of the day having this conversation with you because this is, [00:48:10] this is the part that fascinates me. And I think it was like the moment that I hit 40, something [00:48:15] clicked in me and it’s like, Hey, are you, are you preparing your body to [00:48:20] live another 40 years?

[00:48:21] And it, I don’t know what it was, it clicked in me, why stop at

[00:48:24] DR HP: 40,

[00:48:24] AJ: [00:48:25] right? Or yeah, another 60, 70 years. And, but there was something that clicked and it, [00:48:30] I have been on this journey of like, no, I, I won’t be able to control all the factors in my life. [00:48:35] I won’t be able to control it. If I get hit by a car this afternoon, I won’t be able to control so many [00:48:40] things.

[00:48:40] But what I put in my mouth and what I do for myself are things that I can influence [00:48:45] every single day. Right. I can influence when I go to bed. I can influence keeping my brain active. I [00:48:50] can influence being out in nature. I can influence standing up. Right. And that’s why I thought this was such a [00:48:55] worthwhile conversation to share.

[00:48:57] It’s ’cause everything you share today are things that we can do. [00:49:00] Mm. Right. They don’t cost money. Right. These are things that we can do. Um, and so [00:49:05] first of all, I just thought this was amazing and such a a, it was a breath of fresh [00:49:10] air to be reminded, right? We can do things proactively to protect our [00:49:15] minds to, you know, prevent cognitive decline to, to stay healthy.[00:49:20]

[00:49:20] And so I wanna encourage everyone, um, this is not. The only thing, [00:49:25] uh, that Dr. Helena talks about, um, she’s got two amazing books. Um, she’s [00:49:30] got all kinds of information on her blog, and so if you go to. Her website, [00:49:35] Dr. Helena Popovic, P-O-P-O-V-I-C [00:49:40] popovic.com. We’ll also put that in the show notes, but dr helena popovic.com, uh, [00:49:45] you can access her blog, you can learn about her books, you can learn about all of her work and her studies and her [00:49:50] research.

[00:49:50] Um, not to mention, uh, all of her speaking engagements, uh, all around the world, and [00:49:55] so highly encourage you to go check her out. Learn more about the things that you can [00:50:00] do to stay sharp, uh, and stay healthy. Right. All right. Last top, last two [00:50:05] questions. Yes. Before I release you, what is your morning [00:50:10] routine?

[00:50:10] To have a happy, healthy brain.

[00:50:13] DR HP: Okay. I wake up, [00:50:15] I. My, the first thing I do is exercise, whether it’s, um, aerobic [00:50:20] exercise or strength training, which we didn’t talk about. So I could just quickly mention that. Um, the stronger [00:50:25] your hand grip strength, the stronger your mind get your hand grip strength tested because it tends to [00:50:30] reflect your overall body strength.

[00:50:31] And whenever we, um, work out build [00:50:35] muscles, we are actually building brain. So from our mid thirties onwards, we lose about [00:50:40] 5% of our muscles every decade. That means mid thirties to mid seventies, we [00:50:45] could lose. 20%. One fifth of our muscles. Wow. People go, I don’t care. I don’t wanna be [00:50:50] muscular. It’s not about your muscles, it’s about your brain.

[00:50:52] Mm-hmm. And also losing muscle means we want [00:50:55] more frail, more likely to have falls. All of that. And also, sorry, I [00:51:00] just have to get these few things in. Um, maintain good balance. People are having poorer [00:51:05] and poorer balance with with time, because we are less physically active because we spend [00:51:10] so much time sitting because we’re losing muscle mass, we should be able to stand on one leg.[00:51:15]

[00:51:15] For 60 seconds with our eyes closed, try it. Okay. Okay. So, so that one, and that’s because [00:51:20] balance, um, is, is uh, coordinated by part of the [00:51:25] brain called the cerebellum, which also regulates our thoughts and emotions. And people who have poor [00:51:30] mental health tend to have poor balance. You improve balance, you improve their mental health.

[00:51:33] Fascinating. So that’s a really [00:51:35] fascinating thing. That’s another whole other story. Um, so, so I go to the gym, but [00:51:40] while I’m going to the gym, while I’m driving to the gym. I practice gratitude because one [00:51:45] topic we didn’t cover, which is also really important, is that feeling positive emotions [00:51:50] boosts our brain and our body.

[00:51:52] That’s a whole other topic. Why? [00:51:55] Because when we feel a positive emotion that strengthens our immune system. They’ve [00:52:00] actually measured studies that, that they’ve done it on actors where they spend a whole day [00:52:05] working with depressive depressing scripts.

[00:52:08] Mm.

[00:52:08] DR HP: And then they actually take [00:52:10] blood samples.

[00:52:11] They’ve lowered their white cell count, which is part of their immune [00:52:15] system. And when they test the function of their white cells, they’re more sluggish responding [00:52:20] to bacteria and viruses. So back on the other hand, when, [00:52:25] when, when you have actors working with uplifting, happy scripts, their immune system stays [00:52:30] strong, there’s, there’s no change.

[00:52:31] So, so I practice and one of the, some, and people go, oh yeah, [00:52:35] and, and your, um, one of your other interviewees, Jason. Only a couple of weeks ago [00:52:40] said, oh, positive thinking doesn’t work. I’m, I’m not suggesting you force yourself to be positive if you are [00:52:45] not find back doors mm-hmm. To, to improving your [00:52:50] mood if you’re feeling flat.

[00:52:51] Gratitude is a fabulous one. I start every day with reflecting on what I feel [00:52:55] grateful for. I love that it’s, look. It could be shocking things going on in our lives, [00:53:00] but there’s always something we can be grateful for. I always think about this at an airport when people get [00:53:05] irate, impatient. You know, are you, why do you have to check my language?

[00:53:09] And I’m [00:53:10] thinking, the fact that you are at an airport [00:53:15] able to catch a plane, you are part of the privileged few in this, in this world. [00:53:20] Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Not of all the people. If you can catch a plane. [00:53:25] Be grateful that you are in that. Minority of the world’s

Ep 583: One Leadership Principle You’re probably Ignoring: Self-Talk | Ian Koniak Episode Recap

[00:00:00] Anything that we want in life follows something that I called in my Take the [00:00:05] stairs book, the Creation Principle of integrity, which is that you [00:00:10] think it, then you speak it, then you act, and then it happens. And that the [00:00:15] premise here is that all of creation from this beautiful hotel behind [00:00:20] me to the, to the camera, I’m recording this on to the screen that you’re watching and to this, to this [00:00:25] chair that we are sitting in.

[00:00:27] Starts and follows the same creation [00:00:30] process. You think it, you speak it, you act, and it happens, which means that the [00:00:35] spoken word is the genesis. Of all creation. And [00:00:40] if that is true, that the, that the, the spoken word is the first time when I [00:00:45] say something, that’s the first moment that something exists. It can, it comes out of my [00:00:50] mind into the world or through the written word or the spoken world.

[00:00:53] And it, once it’s out there, now, it [00:00:55] can impact others. And, and it, and I, it can be adapted and edited and molded [00:01:00] and shaped and, and so the spoken word is really important. That’s where creation comes from. And. [00:01:05] And the life that you have, hopefully is one that you [00:01:10] have created, or at least the life that you’re going to have.

[00:01:14] [00:01:15] One day is one that you realize that you are creating now. And if at, if at least [00:01:20] that is true, that the life that you’re gonna have one day is what you are creating right now, then [00:01:25] your words matter tremendously because. They [00:01:30] mark the onset. The genesis of creation is the spoken word, and, and [00:01:35] so here’s the question and here’s the dilemma.

[00:01:38] What are you telling [00:01:40] yourself about yourself? What are [00:01:45] you, what are you saying to yourself about yourself? [00:01:50] I’m not even talking about or touching on or addressing all the things that other people [00:01:55] say about you or the movies that you watch and the music you listen to and, and, and the books [00:02:00] that you read, and how much that Im impacts you when I’m just talking about here is what do [00:02:05] you tell yourself to be true about who you are?[00:02:10]

[00:02:11] Because whether you realize it or not, you are creating [00:02:15] through your own words who you are. [00:02:20] And here’s the part that is so heartbreaking, [00:02:25] and this is something that we have found to be, be so true [00:02:30] for those of you that have kids, or for those of you that are [00:02:35] married, you have a spouse or you have a a, a, a, a partner, a boyfriend, or a girlfriend.[00:02:40]

[00:02:40] Most of you would never let someone talk about [00:02:45] your kids the way you allow yourself to talk [00:02:50] about you. Many of you would [00:02:55] never, ever accept someone talking about your spouse or your [00:03:00] partner the way that you allow yourself [00:03:05] to talk about you. I mean, [00:03:10] if there’s on on no day, would it be acceptable [00:03:15] for for you to allow someone to talk about your parents [00:03:20] the way that you talk to yourself every day?[00:03:25]

[00:03:26] That is heartbreaking and it’s, it’s taken me a long time to realize that for [00:03:30] a lot of us, we struggle with this of, of just the, the tape that’s going on [00:03:35] in our head. And, and sometimes it’s ’cause we don’t realize it and a lot of times it’s ’cause we think it’s [00:03:40] true. We think, gosh, I really am stupid or I really am, you know, gonna be poor.

[00:03:44] I [00:03:45] really, you know, my ideas really don’t matter or my voice is insignificant. And [00:03:50] why do we believe those things to be true? The reason that we believe those things to [00:03:55] be true is not because they’re true. We believe what we hear most [00:04:00] often. That’s it. You don’t believe what is true. [00:04:05] You believe what you hear most often and what you hear most often.

[00:04:09] [00:04:10] What you hear more than anything else about yourself is what [00:04:15] you tell yourself about yourself. So [00:04:20] if you would never let someone. Talk to your parents [00:04:25] that way, or you would never let someone talk about your partner or your [00:04:30] spouse in that way, or if you would never let someone [00:04:35] talk about your kids in that way, [00:04:40] then you better not allow yourself to talk about yourself [00:04:45] in that [00:04:50] way.

Ep 582: How I Built a 3 Million Dollar Coaching Business in 4 years with Ian Koniak

[00:00:00] Rory: [00:00:05] Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand [00:00:10] podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you [00:00:15] learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden [00:00:20] and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times [00:00:25] bestselling author.

[00:00:25] And this show is to help experts learn how to become more [00:00:30] wealthy and well-known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. [00:00:35] One of the great privileges of my life is when our clients [00:00:40] succeed and getting to feel like we’ve played a small part in helping [00:00:45] somebody do something awesome in their own life.

[00:00:47] And we never get to take credit for it ’cause it’s [00:00:50] not our credit to take, it’s their credit to take. But this next gentleman that you’re [00:00:55] about to hear from is one of my favorite success stories, one of my personal [00:01:00] friends, mine and AJ’s. We’ve known him for a very long time, and you’re gonna hear some [00:01:05] of that story.

[00:01:06] And he was one of our very first brand builders, group [00:01:10] clients. Um, early on. He, he knew us from our former life. [00:01:15] Um, and so a couple years into Brand Builders Group, he joined us and, [00:01:20] uh, I’ll give you the formal bio. Okay. So Ian Cognac is our longtime [00:01:25] friend, but he is the president and he is the founder of Untap Your [00:01:30] sales potential.

[00:01:31] Which helps sellers go from good to great by [00:01:35] mastering mindset, habits, and skills needed to perform at the highest level in sales. [00:01:40] He has sold over a hundred million dollars in revenue in his career and he is the [00:01:45] former number one enterprise account executive, uh, for [00:01:50] salesforce.com. He is also, uh, also worked in the Dean of Pavilion’s [00:01:55] Enterprise Sales School.

[00:01:56] And he’s a speaker, he’s a coach, he’s an expert in sales. That’s [00:02:00] where we met him years and years ago, over decades ago at this point. And, [00:02:05] uh, Ian leads sales training workshops for Fortune 500 companies. He [00:02:10] speaks on stages. Uh, he, he appears in the media with several, has been on several [00:02:15] of the top 100 podcasts.

[00:02:17] And, um, I’ll go ahead and just spill the [00:02:20] beans. He four years into his business, so he started with Brand Builders Group about four [00:02:25] years ago. His fourth year in the business, he did three and a half [00:02:30] million dollars in annual revenue. He is [00:02:35] qualified for the Inc 5,000 list in his first year of eligibility and is [00:02:40] just someone that we kind of hold up as a model to go look at what’s possible.[00:02:45]

[00:02:45] So with that, Ian,

[00:02:46] Ian: welcome to the show. So good to see you again, man. It was [00:02:50] great to see you briefly in LA and I’m excited to dive into the story and, and [00:02:55] how, how we built it.

[00:02:56] Rory: So, yeah, just for people who don’t know, so we [00:03:00] met you through aj, aj, uh, ran a sales training [00:03:05] workshop for your sales team back in 2008.[00:03:10]

[00:03:10] Yeah, it was right

[00:03:10] Ian: when, before he wrote the book, take the Stairs. So, okay.

[00:03:14] Rory: [00:03:15] So it would’ve been, that was probably more like 2010, 2011, 2010, something like that. ’cause the book came out [00:03:20] in 2012. So, but over a decade ago. So we met you in a former life, [00:03:25] became friends, uh, and stayed in touch. Then we [00:03:30] exited that business, started over with Brand Builders Group, and then a couple years later we [00:03:35] reconnected.

[00:03:35] Mm-hmm. When did you start untap your sales potential? [00:03:40]

[00:03:40] Ian: I started, I launched unap Your Sales Potential in May [00:03:45] of 2022. Okay. I originally had started a business called Ian [00:03:50] Cognac Sales Coaching after starting with Brand Builders Group, and we had focused on [00:03:55] doing business to business training. So we’d go to big companies and we trained their sales team, and I [00:04:00] quickly realized I was trading time for money and that wasn’t gonna scale.

[00:04:03] And so I decided to pivot [00:04:05] from B2B to B2C and sell directly to. The individual [00:04:10] sellers who are there are millions of them, and, and create a program that, that had, um, [00:04:15] a combination of, of one-on-ones, but also group coaching and online, online training as [00:04:20] well, via a course. So we, we started, we launched in May of [00:04:25] 2022 was our first launch.

[00:04:26] I had already been on my own for about a year, had [00:04:30] left Salesforce for about a year at that point.

[00:04:32] Rory: Okay. Yeah. So, so you joined us [00:04:35] around 2020. Something like that. A couple years after started it was, it was [00:04:40] 2000.

[00:04:40] Ian: It was 2019 to 2020 in that range. Before I had left [00:04:45] Salesforce and when I was building my business, while working still at [00:04:50] corporate is when I worked with Brand Builders.

[00:04:51] And then I stayed with you guys to do several workshops [00:04:55] where we did, um, you know, content workshop. We spend a two day with, with Jeremy and the team kind of [00:05:00] thinking about the structure of Run Top your sales potential. And I continued to work with your [00:05:05] implementation team on building out the portal and Kajabi and, and, uh, really [00:05:10] getting the infrastructure set up around the LMS and, and everything that went along with [00:05:15] that.

[00:05:15] Rory: Yeah. So it’s just, I, I want people to know that because it’s like, it’s a [00:05:20] amazing, first of all, congratulations on three and a half million dollars in annual revenue in [00:05:25] your fourth year. Thank

[00:05:26] Ian: you brother. And, and I’ll say we’re running about 60, [00:05:30] 60% margin. We just got the p and l. So really good margin on, on the business as [00:05:35] well, um, after, you know, cost of delivery and payroll and whatnot.

[00:05:39] So [00:05:40] it’s a profitable business. It’s not just revenue.

[00:05:43] Rory: Yeah. And I want to, I want to hear about the [00:05:45] business model, but I just for, for those of you listening to go, you know. E [00:05:50] Ian started with us and it didn’t really, it not like it necessarily took [00:05:55] off in those first couple years. You were working at your corporate job, you were posting videos on [00:06:00] LinkedIn, but just to fast forward for everybody to go, if you knew [00:06:05] that five years from now.

[00:06:06] If you followed a system and you worked the plan, and you [00:06:10] did the things that we told you to do and you executed, and like, if [00:06:15] you knew that in five years you would generate three and a [00:06:20] half million dollars, would you be willing to pay the price for five years? Like, [00:06:25] would you be willing to make the sacrifices?

[00:06:26] Would you invest in the training and the coaching and, [00:06:30] and making the videos? So take us back in to. Your [00:06:35] first video’s on LinkedIn mm-hmm. And how you started [00:06:40] there. So

[00:06:40] Ian: this is a real important point for all the, for all your audience [00:06:45] is when I launched Untapped Your Sales Potential in 2022. Okay. I did a [00:06:50] launch that was six figures.

[00:06:52] Immediately it was like two 50, 300,000 [00:06:55] for in a day or two since launching to the point where PayPal shut me down, [00:07:00] Stripe shut me down. ’cause they didn’t know if it was real or not. So I had to be submitting docs in the middle of the launch to [00:07:05] let them know, Hey, this is legit. Um, because we. You know, the, the cards weren’t [00:07:10] going through ’cause they, they, they stopped us.

[00:07:11] We were doing so well. And I, and I share that because that [00:07:15] was a result of the, the prior three years of building a [00:07:20] brand and building an audience and building trust to the point where I had a big wait list, I had [00:07:25] credibility. So when I finally had a product on top of your sales potential, the demand was [00:07:30] literally seeming, and, and that is really what you’re asking about is how did you get to that [00:07:35] point?

[00:07:35] ’cause the revenue comes. Uh, as a lagging indicator of the leading indicators that you [00:07:40] do, the KPIs that you’re doing. So my journey started with brand builders. It really started, um, [00:07:45] with you, Rory. You were just starting the company and we had our call and, and you said you came at the [00:07:50] perfect time, but I didn’t.

[00:07:51] Near death experience in December of 2018. And, [00:07:55] um, it, it was, uh, I won’t get too detailed, but it, it. It [00:08:00] helped me realize that my life had been very self-serving. It had been very [00:08:05] focused on me and what I could do for myself and and my family. And I was really focused on money [00:08:10] and recognition and a lot of the things that sellers tend to tend to focus on.

[00:08:14] And I. [00:08:15] When I was, the

[00:08:15] Rory: culture encourages you to focus on those things. On the sales culture. It’s

[00:08:18] Ian: a performance, it’s a [00:08:20] performance culture and leadership. And that was the world I lived in for, you know, for my whole life. [00:08:25] And so, um, what happened is I got stuck upside down on a rollercoaster and hung up there for [00:08:30] 30 minutes.

[00:08:30] No way. Yes, yes way. And in my life flashed before [00:08:35] my eyes. I thought I would die. And what I realized is I. Had, if I died, all of [00:08:40] my wisdom, all of my knowledge, all my gifts, all my lessons would’ve died with me and I wouldn’t have [00:08:45] made a legacy and helped other people. And I, I promised to God when I was hanging up, I said, I [00:08:50] will not wait any longer.

[00:08:51] I don’t know what it’s gonna look like, and I promise I [00:08:55] will start serving people now. And at that moment, the ride took off and that was my [00:09:00] origin story for my business and shortly thereafter. I called you and you said, [00:09:05] Hey, I’m actually started. We just started this thing. You’d be perfect for it. And I took the leap of [00:09:10] faith.

[00:09:10] So at that point, I had no plan. I had no business model. I did [00:09:15] not have a way to monetize. I just had you as a mentor

[00:09:18] Rory: and FYI. [00:09:20] Yeah, so, so like, yeah. So that, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. [00:09:25] Okay, so that is, you’re upside down on a [00:09:30] rollercoaster. You decide I’m gonna do this. Then what happened? So [00:09:35] then you found us.

[00:09:36] Ian: So then I found you right when, when the, when the, the student is [00:09:40] ready, the teacher will appear. And you had had all that stuff go downward. Now brand builders had [00:09:45] started and it was like divine time. It was perfect. And I, I flew out to [00:09:50] Tennessee and went to the finding a brand DNA workshop. And one of the things that.

[00:09:54] We [00:09:55] discussed is, is just building an audience and, and I decided to do what was called a [00:10:00] 365 day challenge, and every day I was gonna post a video, one [00:10:05] minute or less, a short video, giving a tip and giving some help in terms of. [00:10:10] Either personal development or sales, or mindset or habits or just kind of sharing my, my [00:10:15] playbook, my secrets to, to being successful that I had kept with me.

[00:10:18] And the goal simply was if I [00:10:20] died, at least I know I was helping people. And I did that on Instagram. I, I, I spent every day [00:10:25] building on Instagram and I built a good following on Instagram. And what [00:10:30] happened was, um, like how

[00:10:31] Rory: many people. Like when you say good following, this is not millions of people. I want [00:10:35] people No,

[00:10:35] Ian: no, no.

[00:10:35] It was like thousands. It was like five, 6,000 and yeah, it was [00:10:40] engaged. The videos were getting hundreds of views each time. But you know, I had a lot of people that loved the [00:10:45] content and that. Was not how I got [00:10:50] my business monetized. What what happened was, um, I [00:10:55] was building all the infrastructure for my brand at Brand Builders [00:11:00] during the year.

[00:11:00] I was also posting a video a day. So when I say infrastructure, what I mean is, [00:11:05] um, I was building my content. I was building my presentation, I was structuring [00:11:10] what I was gonna teach. I was, um, looking at the website, the logos, the, the [00:11:15] actual. Um, copy for, for my site, ev everything that goes into the [00:11:20] foundation I was building while doing these videos.

[00:11:22] And so I spent a year building all this, [00:11:25] call it the newsletter, the infrastructure, the website. And then what I realized [00:11:30] quickly is that Instagram wasn’t where my people were. You know, I, I, it [00:11:35] was great for me getting comfortable being on camera, and it was great for me [00:11:40] learning to be consistent and have discipline around content creation.

[00:11:44] [00:11:45] But what I ended up doing in January of 2020 was I took all of [00:11:50] that strategy that I had on Instagram. I launched my newsletter, I launched my website, I [00:11:55] launched my blog, and I moved it over to LinkedIn and that’s where my business started. I. [00:12:00] Really exploding as in 2020 when I changed platforms and went to LinkedIn.

[00:12:04] [00:12:05] ’cause the people I was talking to were all sellers working at tech companies and they were [00:12:10] on LinkedIn, they weren’t on Instagram. And so that was really what, what [00:12:15] ended up happening is I built the muscle of content creation and video creation and communication [00:12:20] on Instagram. That was my, my beta. And then when I moved to LinkedIn.

[00:12:24] Um, [00:12:25] now I had a, a way to capture all of the, the, um, audience via my newsletter. [00:12:30] So I started building up this newsletter in 2020 and, and built that pretty [00:12:35] substantial for the next, I’d say two years. And on LinkedIn, once [00:12:40] I started PO posting, I would get a lot of dms and people would, would say, Ian, can you, can you, [00:12:45] uh, coach me?

[00:12:45] Do you coaching? Can you help me? And I started doing one-on-one coaching as my [00:12:50] initial revenue stream. And, and that was really. Um, we made about [00:12:55] $70,000 while I was at Salesforce in 2020. And then I would do a couple keynotes to a [00:13:00] few businesses, and that was really the year. I’ll, I’ll take one more step back.

[00:13:04] [00:13:05] Um, I had some personal challenges where I was going through all this, but I was also [00:13:10] living a double life and, um, struggling with addiction,

[00:13:13] Rory: which I wanna, yeah, I want to talk to you about that, and [00:13:15] I wanna talk to you about that in a second. I want, I wanna, I wanna rewind though, just to. [00:13:20] I think so many people go, oh, well Ian got lucky.

[00:13:23] He went viral, built millions of [00:13:25] followers, and I, and it’s like, that’s not the story here. No. The story is you had [00:13:30] five or 6,000 followers, but they were legit followers on [00:13:35] Instagram. And then you moved to LinkedIn, you said you build your newsletter. Did that, did that mean [00:13:40] you had millions of people in your newsletter?

[00:13:42] Oh my God. How, how many today? How many? I, I, I, [00:13:45] I hope you don’t mind ’cause I just, since you’re one of ours, I’m drilling under the details. Yeah, please, please. How big was [00:13:50] your newsletter at the end of that first year on LinkedIn? I.

[00:13:53] Ian: Maybe a thousand [00:13:55] people. Maybe. I mean, it was very slow in

[00:13:57] Rory: the beginning. A thousand people.

[00:13:58] Yeah. So you said I built it [00:14:00] substantial, which, and I just, I want to clarify for people, ’cause some people [00:14:05] think, oh, substantial. Is James Clear? He is got 3 million people on his email list. We’re talking. A [00:14:10] thousand, but they were a thousand real humans. They were all

[00:14:14] Ian: sellers, all [00:14:15] target audience, all ICP and my LinkedIn following by the end of that year was [00:14:20] probably 5,000.

[00:14:21] So again, very small at this point before going [00:14:25] full time. Because it wasn’t about the following, it was about the content creation, [00:14:30] about the program creation, the system creation, and, and it was about getting money. So these, [00:14:35] these folks that were following me, they were reaching out, they were highly engaged, and they were willing to pay [00:14:40] for one-on-one coaching with me.

[00:14:41] And for me, that was really. Um, [00:14:45] validating that I had a business model that could replace my Salesforce income. ’cause I was one of the top reps at Salesforce. I [00:14:50] was making great money. I was the sole breadwinner for my family. I wanted to know that if I was gonna go and [00:14:55] do this full-time and run my brand and my coaching business full-time, that I could replace my [00:15:00] Salesforce income without skipping a beat.

[00:15:01] And so,

[00:15:02] Rory: and we still, to this day, we still teach the fast, what we call [00:15:05] the fast cash formula, which is posting, posting a video every day. [00:15:10] Asking your friends and family for referrals offering one-on-one coaching. And it’s like we teach all the like [00:15:15] templates and everything to this day, and it’s like, you, you did that.

[00:15:19] Mm-hmm. [00:15:20] And then you scaled. Okay. But there’s a big part in between that I want to talk about, which [00:15:25] is maybe not so pretty because we’ve got, here’s your origin [00:15:30] story and now we see you today and it’s like three and a half million in revenue. But [00:15:35] there’s a big part of your journey that happened, Ian, that I also want people to [00:15:40] know and I, whatever level of truth.

[00:15:43] You feel [00:15:45] comfortable sharing, but I want people to know the real story of what happened [00:15:50] in your life because it was not sunshine and rainbows. It was not viral. It was not. Oprah [00:15:55] discovered you, it was not. You gotta, you hit it big on the lottery [00:16:00] like so can you tell us like what was going on? I would wanna.

[00:16:03] Ian: I would love to, and I [00:16:05] wanna, I wanna for, for the audience listening, um, this is heavy and it’s, [00:16:10] it’s very real and raw. Yeah. A bit

[00:16:12] Rory: of a trigger a warning here too. Just like if you have [00:16:15] little baby ears nearby, like, probably this, this is adult. We’re gonna have adult conversation for a [00:16:20] minute.

[00:16:20] Ian: Yeah, so, so here’s what was going on.

[00:16:22] I was a very high performing [00:16:25] seller, and I was a high functioning addict. So I had struggled with [00:16:30] addiction my entire life. Um, drugs, alcohol, and sex. And, and those [00:16:35] things were, um, a big part of how I got validation and how I [00:16:40] coped with the stress and the overwhelm of the pressure I’d put on myself. And, and just the, [00:16:45] the general, um.

[00:16:47] I would say excess. I was living in, in [00:16:50] flesh and desires of the flesh. And in, um, in [00:16:55] 2020, you know, after a year of being in brand builders, what I started, and I say it’s, it’s [00:17:00] God’s grace, and it, it was a sign from God. But I started realizing that I had a [00:17:05] double life, and here I was trying to coach and trying to train and be this role model.

[00:17:09] [00:17:10] And in, in, um. In my personal life, I was hiding, I was hiding secrets [00:17:15] from my wife. I was going to strip clubs and massage parlors, and I was, um, [00:17:20] I was watching pornography and I wasn’t telling my wife any of this stuff, and I [00:17:25] decided I wanted to confess to my wife in 2020. It was February, [00:17:30] um, 13th, 2020.

[00:17:31] This is the exact date. I had a guilty conscience. I [00:17:35] knew that I could not be the man that I proclaimed to be publicly if I had [00:17:40] private secrets and if I wasn’t living in full authenticity and full truth. And [00:17:45] I, I give full glory to God with, with this because it wasn’t me. It was, it was a [00:17:50] calling, it was a deep moral calling of, you know, living a righteous life.

[00:17:53] And I wanted to break free of [00:17:55] this. And I had tried on my own for many years and just continued to, to slip and, [00:18:00] and, and. You know, compartmentalize this activity. And, and [00:18:05] rationalize. And rationalize stands for rational lies because they’re rational, but you’re lying to [00:18:10] yourself. And any addict or anyone who struggle struggles know, knows what I’m talking about.

[00:18:14] Um, and [00:18:15] I couldn’t do it on my own. So I decided to confess to my wife. And, um, [00:18:20] I told her I was, I was, uh, specifically I was going on webcams. I, I didn’t tell her the [00:18:25] full extent of what. What I was doing, but I said, I’m watching porn, I’m watching webcams. [00:18:30] And she’s like, what’s that? I’m like, well, it’s, it’s basically women who are, um, [00:18:35] now unfortunately, it’s, it’s more rampant than ever with OnlyFans, but it’s, it’s [00:18:40] webcams of real women.

[00:18:41] And, and I said, I know how you feel about porn. I know how you feel about strip clubs. [00:18:45] You know, I just wanted to tell you I’m doing this and get your thoughts. And, um, [00:18:50] she, she collapsed. Uh, she, she fell to the ground. She was four months pregnant and she, [00:18:55] hmm. Started, um, trembling and shaking. Um, and then she started having [00:19:00] labor contractions and we thought we were gonna lose the baby.

[00:19:03] So I, I went and [00:19:05] rushed, rushed to the hospital. Um, and the whole way to the doctor, I’m [00:19:10] praying, I said, God, I don’t know what I’ve done, but please don’t take this baby. I promise I will change. I [00:19:15] promise I will get help. Please don’t take this baby. And we get to the. He puts [00:19:20] the ultrasound and it was the longest 30 seconds of my life.

[00:19:22] I’m hysterical. [00:19:25] And, um, he looks up and he said, there’s a heartbeat. The baby’s okay. And I said, [00:19:30] thank God, thank God. He’s like, what were you cheating? What’d you do? And I said something like that. I’m like, does this [00:19:35] happen a lot? He says, I see it every week. Wow. Women coming in because they’re men [00:19:40] are hiding and living, um, a lie or keeping secrets from their wife.

[00:19:44] [00:19:45] And that to me was the beginning of my rebirth. That was when I found God. That was when I found [00:19:50] Christ. I was baptized in, uh, last year after five years of studying and. [00:19:55] Um, I got into recovery for addiction. I stopped my personal brand to, I [00:20:00] stopped brand builders and I said, no matter what happens, the most important thing in the world is to keep my [00:20:05] family together and to break this generational curse that was, frankly, [00:20:10] um, long before me, before I was born.

[00:20:12] This has been in my family and I was exposed to things at a [00:20:15] very young age, and, you know, I, I, I, that was the. That was the, the [00:20:20] life I inherited. And, and I’d made a decision that this would stop with me and my kids would not [00:20:25] inherit what I did. And, and I devoted myself to recovery. And that was my focus [00:20:30] for 2020.

[00:20:31] Um, and I, I, I share that because [00:20:35] that was necessary for me to get where I am today. And it was part of my [00:20:40] brand building. Um, it, it wasn’t just sales training, I was talking about. [00:20:45] Authenticity and integrity and all the things that I had to do in order to get to a [00:20:50] place where I would attract people from a place of truth and, and from a [00:20:55] place of love and service.

[00:20:56] I had to face my own demons first before I can do that. And, [00:21:00] and I’ll just tell you this, while my brand is focused on helping sellers untap their [00:21:05] full potential, the amount of people and men specifically who have reached out [00:21:10] that have struggled with similar afflictions is. More than I can ever [00:21:15] even think was possible saying Me too.

[00:21:18] I’ve been doing this in secret [00:21:20] and, and I’ve helped a lot of people get into recovery for a very taboo [00:21:25] addiction that I don’t think anyone really talks about, but is rampant in our society with the. [00:21:30] With porn and with the access that we have. So I, it’s been five years and, and [00:21:35] by God’s grace, I, I am living a life of honesty and integrity with my wife and [00:21:40] been sober for five years.

[00:21:41] And, and I, I, um, I’m very proud of, of [00:21:45] those changes. And that’s been part of my, my story is sharing some of these very personal [00:21:50] things. And in the process it’s attracted a lot of. Sellers who, who tend to [00:21:55] struggle with some of these areas and some of these addictions. Um, it’s very [00:22:00] common in that business and sales space and, um, a lot of people have come to me [00:22:05] because of that, because of my faith, because of my battles with addiction and A DHD and [00:22:10] all the personal changes I’ve made.

[00:22:12] And speak to, it’s attracted a lot of [00:22:15] people to my, my business and my brand. And that’s one of the main things they cite as a reason they’ve [00:22:20] signed up is that vulnerability and that story.

[00:22:22] Rory: Yeah, I mean that’s a, [00:22:25] uh, that’s a crazy story. Um, yeah, [00:22:30] thank you for sharing that. And I, part of, [00:22:35] there’s so many powerful parts of it.

[00:22:38] One of the [00:22:40] connections I want people to make though is [00:22:45] on the surface, you would think that sharing all of those [00:22:50] things would destroy your personal brand. I. You would think [00:22:55] it would eliminate people from paying you. [00:23:00] You would think you would just get trashed and you, you know, [00:23:05] ha ha havoc and like, you know, trolled online about all of these [00:23:10] things.

[00:23:11] And I’m sure you’ve received some of those, which you will [00:23:15] receive anyways. You receive some of that anyways, but [00:23:20] sharing the hard parts of your story.[00:23:25]

[00:23:25] Doesn’t usually hurt the business. It usually [00:23:30] helps the business long term because people go, oh, Ian [00:23:35] is a real, he’s a real dude. He struggled with real [00:23:40] things and he is really willing to like lay it all out there [00:23:45] and. You know, I’m not saying that that would be the strategy everyone [00:23:50] should follow that you would just like take all of your darkest secrets and lay ’em out on the web.

[00:23:54] And I [00:23:55] also don’t think you’re saying that you did that right away. There was a no, you shared it with your wife, [00:24:00] you dealt with this. You went, you went to recovery, you healed from it, you moved [00:24:05] on. And then later it, it’s, it’s like you don’t, you don’t share your [00:24:10] hurts. While it’s an open wound, you, you share it once, once it’s a scar.

[00:24:14] Not, and not [00:24:15] even, you’re

[00:24:16] Ian: in a healthy place and you’re out of it. I mean, you’re never entirely out of [00:24:20] addiction. There’s always, you know, temptation. But, but fundamentally, you’re, you’re spot on. Like I [00:24:25] wasn’t when I was in it, I was. Saving my family and my marriage, and more [00:24:30] importantly, like living a life I could be proud of and God could be proud of.

[00:24:33] And I share it now because I [00:24:35] believe it’s part of God’s will to talk about the things no one else is willing to because [00:24:40] I. People need to know they’re not alone. And especially men who, who struggle and shame with, [00:24:45] with some of these activities and married men who are hiding, um, secrets from their, their partners.

[00:24:49] No one, [00:24:50] I don’t know anyone that talks about this personally, and I just think it needs to be done. Whether or not it [00:24:55] stains my brand, whether or not people, you know, don’t wanna work with me is irrelevant. I’m doing in [00:25:00] my mind God’s will by helping people have loving, honest marriages. [00:25:05] Which you’re best positioned to serve the person you once were.

[00:25:08] And that was me [00:25:10] hiding. So that’s what I’m saying. Hundreds of men have come out to me and said, Hey, me too. How [00:25:15] can I get help? And that’s, that for me is the most fulfilling, even if I’m not getting paid for it. [00:25:20]

[00:25:20] Rory: And that, you know, I want people to also know, like. That is all a part of why [00:25:25] we’re proud of you.

[00:25:26] Right? We’re not only proud of the, the mission driven messengers who have led a [00:25:30] perfect life and grown their business. It’s, it’s the, the part that makes me so [00:25:35] proud of you, Ian, is the part where you just said, where you said, I don’t [00:25:40] care if it hurts my brand, I don’t care if I lose revenue over it. [00:25:45] I’m doing this to help people.

[00:25:48] Yes. And that’s like, [00:25:50] that’s the. That’s the part where you go, I’m willing to risk [00:25:55] whatever it is about me, if it’s in the service of others. [00:26:00] And you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. Right. I mean, that’s why [00:26:05] we say it all the time and you go and it’s amazing. You know, you talk [00:26:10] about God, like God specializes in resurrections.

[00:26:14] [00:26:15] Right, like God, God specializes in redemption. God [00:26:20] specializes in using broken people. God specializes in using people who [00:26:25] aren’t perfect and, and, and you go, you know. You look through the Bible, [00:26:30] whether it’s, you know, Moses who was a Hebrew, you talk about, uh, you know, [00:26:35] David, who was a shepherd, Jesus who was like literally born in a [00:26:40] stable to a poor family.

[00:26:42] Like, uh, Paul, who was a murderer. [00:26:45] Like our God specializes in using broken [00:26:50] people and, and making things beautiful. And I, and I think one of the reasons why he does [00:26:55] that is because that’s part of how he gets the glory. Is he [00:27:00] gets, he gets the glory in those redemption stories to go, how [00:27:05] could you survive this?

[00:27:06] How could your, your, you and your wife, you and your wife are happily [00:27:10] married, you have multiple children now you, here you are talking on a podcast to the [00:27:15] whole world airing your dirty secrets, so to speak, and it’s like. How [00:27:20] could that happen? Because it’s like, ’cause God is blessing it. He’s redeeming it.

[00:27:23] Now. I [00:27:25] do wanna make sure people know you don’t do this when it’s a scab. You do it once. It’s a [00:27:30] scar. That’s kind of like the general rule of thumb that I, you know, try to [00:27:35] delineate. It’s like you cannot do this while this is fresh. You have to, like you said, you have to be in a place where it’s [00:27:40] healthy, you’re past it and that’s when you, then you talk about it.

[00:27:44] Um. [00:27:45] But Ian, what a beautiful

[00:27:47] Ian: redemption story. I’m getting. I’m getting emotional, man. It, it’s, it’s [00:27:50] such, it’s so spot on. It’s like everything we go [00:27:55] through, right? Everything we’ve been through that we can’t fix on our own, [00:28:00] strengthens our faith and strengthens our connection with God. And, and that’s the cornerstone of my [00:28:05] story is I can’t, but God can.

[00:28:07] And, and my story is a glor [00:28:10] glorification. Amen to God. Amen. Because everything that. Brought me to [00:28:15] a rock bottom and brought me to that place of full surrender. Brought me to Christ, brought me to [00:28:20] to my faith, and, and, and it’s, it’s still ongoing. It’s, it’s like when you [00:28:25] think you can, you’re humbled and, and it’s always to lead us back to God and I.

[00:28:29] [00:28:30] Ironically, you just said, make, do, do this when it’s your scar, not your scab. [00:28:35] Our next theme of our next mastermind in which we have 80 people coming together from our community, from around [00:28:40] the world is make your scars, your superpowers. Mm-hmm. That’s the theme of our [00:28:45] next mastermind. So yes, we’re a sales training, but we’re gonna go deep in terms of [00:28:50] bringing out things that people may be ashamed of that are holding them back is once you’re.[00:28:55]

[00:28:55] Free. The most free person in the world is the one with nothing to hide, and [00:29:00] that’s been the genesis of my brand is once I had nothing to hide, once I put it [00:29:05] all out there, I was free to serve. I didn’t have this baggage and this heavy weight [00:29:10] that I was carrying because I truly was in service and I was leading with spirit.

[00:29:14] And, [00:29:15] and, and I say that because, um, it’s such a blessing to have gone through this [00:29:20] and it is such glory to God. So I’m really glad that you see it the way, that way. That’s the way I see it [00:29:25] too. And it’s not something to be ashamed of. It’s something I’m proud of more than anything, is saving [00:29:30] my marriage, keeping us together, and living a life of honesty and integrity in a world where.

[00:29:34] [00:29:35] So many people are lost and so many marriages end in divorce.

[00:29:39] Rory: Yeah. Ab [00:29:40] absolutely. I, I, um, one of our family philosophies is to live a [00:29:45] life that would stand up to the scrutiny of transparency, right? Just live a life. That would be like, if [00:29:50] everyone saw everything, you know? ’cause people can say bad things, they can make stuff up.

[00:29:54] But [00:29:55] like ultimately if you’re just living that life where you go, come audit, like, come audit, [00:30:00] right? Like, um. That’s super powerful. And, and, and one of the things my [00:30:05] pastor says, um, is, you know, he told [00:30:10] me that a, a mentor had shared with him is that your influence will never grow wider [00:30:15] than your character runs deep.

[00:30:18] Your influence never grows [00:30:20] wider than your character runs deep. And the work that you did of. Healing your [00:30:25] character and solidifying your character and cleaning up your [00:30:30] character and, uh, creating a rock solid character [00:30:35] then became the foundation that was so solid that boom, you put, you put that [00:30:40] together with the vulnerability, the solid character, and then your normal ex, your, your [00:30:45] actual expertise and work ethic and, you know, maybe some coaching along the way and just like.[00:30:50]

[00:30:50] Boom, here you are. A completely changed life. [00:30:55] Um, it’s really, really inspiring, Ian. It’s really, every part of [00:31:00] this to me is inspiring. Um, thank you and we’re really proud of [00:31:05] you. Where, where should people go if they want to learn, uh, more about you and, and what you’re [00:31:10] doing and like, uh, you know, especially if they’re like in sales,

[00:31:14] Ian: and I think, I [00:31:15] think you just nailed it, right?

[00:31:16] You can’t build your brand from a shaky foundation. You can’t build [00:31:20] your business unless you’ve done the work on yourself. Because once you’ve done that, [00:31:25] it will shine through your content, through your energy, through you know, your [00:31:30] transparency and, and through your stories, frankly. ’cause you’re gonna have the stories that really people connect [00:31:35] to in, in a place of authenticity and truth and vulnerability.

[00:31:38] And so. [00:31:40] Um, that’s right. Once that was, that once that work was in a good place, I could focus on [00:31:45] the brand. I left Salesforce, I put in service and the rest was history. I went from [00:31:50] 5 33 in 2021 to one, five to two, five, and last year to three five. And it’s [00:31:55] been a steady, progressive growth. But it all started with doing the work on myself.

[00:31:59] And I, I [00:32:00] just encourage anyone listening to face your demons, face your fears, be [00:32:05] honest, be truthful, do the inner work ’cause it’s gonna help you. Ultimately, um, in your [00:32:10] business, you can’t be one thing in your business and be something else in your personal life. And, and I [00:32:15] think that’s something not a lot of people really speak to, and it’s really important.

[00:32:18] So if people [00:32:20] wanna follow me, um, there’s really three channels that I, I’m on. Uh, you can go to untap your [00:32:25] sales potential.com. That’s where if you wanted coaching or. Any kind of [00:32:30] support with your business, um, in, in the sales capacity, uh, that’s the best [00:32:35] place to go and talk to my team. Um, YouTube. I have, uh, over 500 [00:32:40] videos posted now.

[00:32:41] Mostly sales training. I, I post on mindset habits [00:32:45] and selling skills. I’ve been doing every single week a new video and then we cut up, we do some shorts, but [00:32:50] I’ve been doing that, that content diamond for, for the past.

[00:32:53] Rory: Well, baby Content [00:32:55] Diamond. Shout out to Brand Builders Group following the system.

[00:32:58] Ian: Every week without fail [00:33:00] posting twice a day on LinkedIn and, and doing a new video every week, um, via newsletter. So [00:33:05] YouTube is great. LinkedIn’s where I kind of live from a social standpoint, not Instagram or [00:33:10] TikTok. I’m on LinkedIn, Ian Cognac at LinkedIn. And uh, yeah, I have a newsletter as [00:33:15] well where I send out a new video training every week.

[00:33:17] And we just launched a free course. It’s a 12 week [00:33:20] course. Um. It, it’s called the Fundamentals of Elite Tech Sales. If you wanna [00:33:25] Google that, you can get that as well for anyone listening.

[00:33:27] Rory: Yeah, that’s really cool, man. I, I, [00:33:30] um. I love, you know, I love [00:33:35] seeing the fundamentals as part of this story, right?

[00:33:37] There’s this whole personal aspect, but there’s another part that’s just [00:33:40] like getting clear on your brand, your brand positioning, who your audience is doing the content [00:33:45] diamond. Well, starting with one-on-one coaching, like so many of the things that we teach people to [00:33:50] do and go, you know, you don’t have to be, be a believer in God to like learn from Ian’s [00:33:55] story about what has happened.

[00:33:58] But man, if you’re not a [00:34:00] believer. You gotta see the, you gotta at least go, what a powerful redemption [00:34:05] story of like, you know, you going to the rock bottom. And I think that’s what I think [00:34:10] that’s, sometimes I think we experience rock bottoms because that’s, that’s when [00:34:15] we start paying attention to God. We start paying it.

[00:34:18] We, we, we really, we [00:34:20] really, in our lives, we really start paying attention to God. [00:34:25] We have no other option. Like when we’re out of hope, when we, when we, once we’ve [00:34:30] exhausted everything else and we’ve tried all the different things, then we start paying attention to God and [00:34:35] it’s like, and he’s there and he will be there and he will meet you and you’re just, you’re a [00:34:40] real life living example of that redemption story.[00:34:45]

[00:34:45] It’s inspiring and it’s hopeful, and it’s powerful and it’s [00:34:50] courageous. So thanks for sharing it buddy, and thanks for being a, being here. And [00:34:55] thank you for the privilege of letting us be a little part of all you’re doing.

[00:34:58] Ian: Thank you for your [00:35:00] mentorship, your guidance, your example. Thank you for putting out your faith and, and [00:35:05] your channels.

[00:35:06] And, and it’s, um. It’s admirable and, and I, I just love what you’re [00:35:10] doing as well and I’m grateful to be part of it, so thank you so [00:35:15] much.

Ep 265: Finding an Aligned Business Model with Jesse Terranova | Recap Episode

RV (00:02):
What a blast getting to talk to Jesse Terranova, one of our very own brand builders. You know, we actually have a lot of our clients come on the show. And you know, this one was interesting a lot of times cuz we knew them before, you know, and were aware of their work before. And then, you know, they become a client because we’re helping them on some piece of their business, something. But with Jesse, you know, specifically he won the chance to come on, which was really fun. We gave us away. You know, we did this as a, as a drawing AJ, it was AJ’s idea for the 12 days of Christmas that you could win a chance to come up here on the episode and to get to hear Jesse and see, you know, his powerful, personal story. Such a great example of someone who’s taking their own pain and, you know, turning it into something beautiful for other people.
RV (00:51):
And, and just a living example of everything that we talk about, like with, with someone who’s a brand builder is realizing you’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. We say that all the time and see story is a great example of that. And so to see that happening and get to talk to someone who’s like earlier in their stage, but also when he was on his retreat, getting his, his, his first customers, you know, delivering to his first customers. So, so wonderful. And it reminded me, you know, we got a chance to also do some live coaching. This is something that we’ve thought about. A few times is going, I wonder if we should do more live coaching on these for our podcast so that you get a chance to sort of like listen to us, coach you know, people who have questions about, about their personal brand.
RV (01:44):
So, you know, let us know what you think about that. It’s just, you know, send me a leave me a comment on my Instagram or shoot me a DM. You could always write in info brand builders, group.com or something, but like, I would love to hear your feedback on on that if, if, if to say, would you like to hear more that were live coaching where we just did like live coaching with guests. So in this case, Jesse is already a client. So there’s already a little bit of a background, a lot of, bit of background of, you know, some of our framework and content. But anyways, that’s what we’re thinking about. So all right. My biggest takeaways here. So first of all, with, with Jesse and for, in something we are often referencing and telling people all the time is once you figure out the, the, who, everything becomes clearer, like once you know, who is the actual other person that’s listening on the other side of your microphone or on the other side of the camera, if, if you’re talking about social media, the other side of the pen, if you’re a book things really become clear.
RV (02:51):
And yet a lot of our, our members, a lot of our clients struggle to narrow down exactly who they wanna talk to. Right? And they go, I wanna help everybody. Well, it’s not only, it’s not only a bad strategy from a marketing standpoint, but it also, it, it makes your content very weak. It dilutes your content because you can’t, you can’t speak directly and powerfully in, in a deep. And so, you know, here’s, here’s the, the big lesson that I think is a, is a good reminder and takeaway. And I think, you know, Jesse in many ways is doing this well, is choose the audience that you can serve in the deepest way, choose the audience you can serve in the deepest way. That is the, the fastest place to start. That’s the most obvious place to start. It’s the, the best place to start.
RV (03:40):
It ties in with what we’re always saying. You’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once work, right? So if you don’t know what, where should I start? Like that is a place to start because that’s where you can get traction and you can get momentum and leverage, you know, unless for some reason you just really, really don’t wanna do it. Then there’s, there’s maybe some tertiary or tangent, tangential you know, topic that we would pursue, but it’s, you’re always going to, to be able to speak most directly to that person. So think about that. The, the, the second big takeaway, which is related to that is design your, your business model around the, the actual needs of your clients, design your business model around the actual needs of your business clients. So, or of your actual clients. So what a lot of people do is they say, you know, they kind of come up with a, a medium like mechanism.
RV (04:42):
They’re like, oh, I wanna write a, I wanna write a book or I wanna release a speech, or I wanna have a video course or a membership site. And that’s fine. Like it’s not bad or wrong to like, pursue that. But even in the context of pursuing that, or in the, especially in the absence of clarity about how you should structure your offer or how you should structure your program, or like what you should include, make it less about what do other people do, like other people in your space, or just other personal brands in general and orient it. And, and, and also, I would say less even about what you think it should be like, what you just do and orient it more specifically around what do my clients actually need in order to succeed. Like, what is the, the best way to organize the delivery of the information, the continuity of the experience, the, the connection in the collaboration, the feedback, the accountability like between, and, and, and really make that the primary focal point.
RV (05:53):
And because if you can orient to that, they’re gonna succeed faster and you’re gonna succeed faster because they’re gonna get results. And they’re gonna tell people, and you’re gonna have great case studies and testimonials. And so too often, we just go, you know, like we’re scrolling on Facebook and we see an ad that says, yeah, you know, how do I make a million dollars coaching people? Or how, you know, how, how do I make a million dollars doing Facebook groups? What, like, whatever the thing is. And, and they’re not, they’re not bad. They’re all, they’re all good. They’re all workable. They’re all, they all can contribute, but it’s, it’s more, it’s less of that. And it’s more of just orienting yourself based upon the person you’re trying to serve, orienting your entire brand, your entire perspective, your, your consideration of the type of content you create, the, the amount of money you charge, the, the deliverables, the frequency in which you communicate with them, the, the, the environment of, in which you communicate with them, you know, can it, some of it be virtual or all of it be virtual, or can it be in person?
RV (06:54):
Does it need to be live? Can it just be broadcast? How much of it needs to be communal, like all of these decisions go into a business model. It’s not just like, oh, wanna launch a podcast. So that’s what we’re gonna do. You know, it’s more about actually assessing what is the what is the best and highest use of your time for your clients? Again, it goes back to what we were saying earlier, choose the audience that you can serve in the deepest way. That’s where you’re gonna get the most momentum, because you know that person, how do you know that person? Because you were that person. So nobody is gonna be better suited to serve that person than you, because you were them, you know exactly what it is. This is why brand builders group exists. Right. We know what it’s like to be an aspiring author or right.
RV (07:44):
And go how do you go from, I don’t even know what the difference is between a self-published book and a New York times bestselling book to, to being a New York times bestselling author. I know what it’s like to sit in an audience and go, how do you get to be the person on stage in front of 10,000 people? And then getting to do that. We know what it’s like to go, am I capable of creating a coaching program and then turning that into an eight figure business? Like, so that is just, these are the things that we know about, or building a, you know, the building, a personal brand in general, that’s, you know, a social media following the podcast and all these things that we’ve done. It’s because we know you, like, if that is you, like, we know you, we know exactly what you need and people go, oh my gosh, your curriculum is amazing.
RV (08:27):
Like, it’s exactly what I needed. Yeah, of course it is why, cause it’s what we needed. Like, it’s what we wished we had. So that’s the same way that you would wanna design things for your pro aspects and for your clients. And you’re, you’re, you’re most able to do that. And it’s most efficient for you to do that around and in the cases of people that are the people who you once were, or people who, you know, really, really, really, really well. So design your business model around the needs of your clients. And, and the question is not so much, what’s the easiest way to make a lot of money. This is another distinction here, right? People go, oh, what’s the easiest way to make a lot of money. That’s the wrong question. The right question is to how can I serve my audience in the most meaningful way? Not how can I make money the fastest? How can I serve my audience in the most meaningful way?
RV (09:25):
It’s not wrong to also consider what would be profitable. And, and it’s definitely not wrong to structure. How do I need to structure this in order for it to profitable? Because if you’re not profitable, then there’s not gonna be any sustainability to your business, which means you’re not gonna be able to serve anyone. So it’s, it’s not that we’re against money or profit by any means. It’s just going the lead decision shapes, the trajectory like of the whole future. If your business is just going, like, how can I make a lot of money that sets you on a course of a whole series of decisions that we believe are going to lead you off track it, it, because you’re gonna burn out or people are gonna sense it, or you’re gonna get tired or bored. That’s totally different than going. Who do I wanna dedicate my life to serving?
RV (10:17):
What are they really struggling with and what do they need? And how could I put that together for them that send you on a completely different path? It it’s a whole, it’s a, it’s, it’s two different trajectories. Ironically, that is the one that will lead to the most scalable long-term income. The problem. Sometimes it’s not always the most immediate short term income. And so you sometimes have to balance some of that and do some things in the short term to make it all work. But if you just chase the money, it’s gonna break down, you’re gonna break down. You’re gonna burn out. You’re gonna go. Like, you’re gonna look up in three years, maybe sooner, maybe a little bit longer and just go, like, I don’t even enjoy what I’m doing anymore because it’s not aligned. It’s not aligned, right? This is about finding an aligned business model.
RV (11:06):
And it’s, it’s not the same as what the person next to you would do, or the other person in the industry or what the legends have done. It is all about your uniqueness. When we say exploit your uniqueness in the service of others, a huge part of that is, and selecting, and then deploying the proper business model strategy that is life giving to you, life giving to your clients and profitable enough that it is sustainable. For every, for you to continue doing that work and to continue providing careers for other people and advancement for them and to support them and their families. But it’s not just going, how do I get my hands into people’s pockets? How do I get money out of them? What’s the fastest way to just like, take their cash. And, and I think, you know, Jesse’s a great example of somebody that’s that, right?
RV (11:53):
He’s going, what’s the problem. He solves loneliness. He had such clarity about that. And it was so powerful when, you know, when he said loneliness is a greater killer than stress or obesity. Like, I mean, that really rings powerful right now that, you know, I don’t know if it’s statistically true or not. How would you measure it? But in a COVID world where people are isolated and the mental health is, is just like at all time, like really devastating level, you go, yeah. Loneliness is a big deal. So, so how did Jesse construct his business model? It’s about bringing people together. That makes sense, right? It makes sense that he would do that and not go, let’s launch a video core about how to overcome loneliness, that you’re gonna sit and watch, you know, in your room late at night, when you’re all by yourself, like, what do they need?
RV (12:41):
And, and, and if you’ve been that person, you’re gonna know what they need, and you’re gonna know because you’re gonna, it’s gonna be what you wish you would’ve had. And then finally, the, the last little, you know, thing or big thing that we talked about there with Jesse, which I find this becoming more and more, a part of our regular conversation with our brand builders members like your next client. Like if you’re earlier in your brand, your personal brand journey. And again, we, we define personal brand is the digitization of reputation, the digitization of reputation. So you have a reputation, but your personal brand might be early, meaning you don’t have a lot of online strategy or digital representation of your reputation going on. So if you’re, if you’re earlier in your personal brand journey, let me talk to you specific. But I would say early could be 10 years.
RV (13:40):
Like it could certainly be three to five years, but if you are in that mode, there’s something that you wanna realize, because this is different from the facade that you see in the world. And from what most of the people who are online, who have established personal brands will teach you. And, and that is this, your next client is not going to come from strangers on the internet. Your next client is much more likely to come out of the cell phone of your current customer. Your next client is not likely to be a stranger from the internet. Are next clients live in the cell phones of your current clients. Let me break that down. What am I talking about there? I’m saying that we’re all so consumed with finding strangers on the internet to like us follow us, share us and buy from us.
RV (14:33):
But that’s like walking down the street, like being in New York city and, and to it’s like walking in times square and just yelling out like with a megaphone and thinking that people are gonna gravitate to you and buy. It’s not that it can’t happen. And over time you end up owning your own little kind of corner of the street. And you’ve got a lot of people there listening. And so people do come and buy. But, but in the beginning, it’s gonna happen through relationships, right? You revenue happens through relationships, revenue, customers, transactions are about trust and trust often takes time or trust is transferred from other relationships. So your, your, your fastest path to cash, like if we wanna talk about that and go, what is the fastest way to make money? It’s likely not posting on social media and starting a blog and a podcast.
RV (15:30):
And, you know, building funnels and doing all of those things. That’s probably not the fastest path to short term cash. Now, long term, those are very scalable things. Those are things that push personal brands to a whole nother stratosphere. Those things can completely change your life. They can change everything, but they take a long time to develop some. They take a long time to build. They take a long time to develop. They take a long time to develop trust and, and for money to actually start to show up. So start on those as soon as you can. I mean, if you’re a brand builder, you’re going through our process, we’ll teach you exactly the order and the sequence of, of when this should happen. But like, it’s, it’s a little bit different for everybody. So you wanna start building those things. Those are good things, but they’re not the things that are gonna make you millions of dollars overnight.
RV (16:22):
I mean, it’s the law of AJ, right? AJ Vaden, you don’t need millions of D millions of followers to make millions of dollars. You don’t, you only need a couple. I mean, for most of us, we only need like a thousand customer and that would be a huge amount of money, right? You might not even be able to handle a thousand customers. You might not even be able hundred 50 customers, like depends on what your, what your business model is. But like, those people are, are likely to come faster through referrals and recommendations and introductions and, and relationships of people, you know? And so don’t step over all of your past client. I mean, here’s a question when’s the last time you talked to all your past clients, like how often do you talk to your past clients? How often do you touch base with them?
RV (17:08):
How often do you ask ’em what’s going on? You say hi. And if you don’t, if today is your first day in the company and you go, I don’t have any past clients. Great. How long has it been since you you’ve talked to all of your past friends and your past family members and your relationships, the people who trust you, cuz that’s where you’re gonna start. Like you don’t try to sell to the people who know you, you ask the people who know you for referrals and introductions, and that’s how you start. And you, you build the snowball, you build, you know, you build out from there. So I just want to make sure that if you’re anywhere early in your journey and honestly, even later, I mean, most of our clients right now come from either our current clients or they come from longtime friends and longtime colleagues, right.
RV (17:58):
They, they, they do, do we get clients who have never heard of us and stumble across this podcast? Of course we do, but it’s way less than you would think. And it, it usually takes a really long time, right? Like they have to listen to, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what the number is. It’s different for everybody, but often they gotta listen to 10, 20, maybe 50 episodes before they really develop that trust. Right. Or they have to like go to YouTube and watch all our YouTube videos or go to Roy vain, blog.com. And they, they watch, you know, these tra these in depth trainings. And at some point they cross the threshold that go, okay, I trust you. Now. It takes a long time though, because they’ve never met us in real life. And they don’t, they don’t really know anybody who has met us.
RV (18:45):
If they, if, if you found us as a stranger on the internet, right. It doesn’t mean you’re or less valuable to us by any means. We, we love everybody, but it’s, it, it typically means it takes you longer to buy from us because you’re still getting to know us. Versus if we go on a podcast like, you know, whoever Lewis, how Sean Cannel Shalene Johnson, Donald Miller, any of these, you know, a lot of our top affiliates are our friends and relationships, right? Because we go on there. And when those people say, here’s the experience that I had with brand builders group, you’ve spent time trusting them. And then that trust transfers to us. Or if your, you know, your friend, your sister, your brother-in-law, your best friend said, Hey, you gotta check out brand builders group. And they said, you know, go to free brand call.com/podcast request a free call.
RV (19:39):
If your friend was like, dude, you have to do this right now. These people are incredible. Go to free brand call.com/podcast, which is our, our real URL, right. Go there and do a call with these people because you wanna build your platform. You’re trying to become more well known. You wanna make more impact in the world. You you’re trying to figure out what the system is to, to you know, manage all of your content and social media and technology and, and books and speaking, and using all of those things to drive your business. And these guys are the math, right? Like if someone told you that, that, you know, you would do it in a heartbeat and, or, or, you know, and so that’s what happens. And that’s part of why you go, we, you know, you go do interviews on other, other places, but even now those clients come from existing relationships that we have.
RV (20:29):
And a lot of those relationships are developed offline. Even if it’s a podcast we’re on. Most of that relationship happens in real life, not through comments and DMS and shares it. It happens through real life conversations, real life work we’re doing with people, or we’re doing work with someone they know, or, or, or someone they respect is one of our clients. Your next client is not likely to come from strangers on the internet. It is way more likely to come from the cell phones of your current customers. They’re the people who already trust you. So are you talking to ’em? Are you, and are you asked and are you letting them know what you do and that you’re available? And then you’d love to be introduced to some of their friends or friends of their friends. Anyways, couple big ideas applicable, you know, good reminders for myself, hopefully for you, hopefully most for Jesse, right?
RV (21:26):
And, and a great is to talk through and, and thank you Jesse, for coming on and letting us dig in a little bit to your business model and seeing where you’re at on your journey. We look forward to following you and continuing to pour into you and to see where you end up here over the next few years. It is our honor to work with you as all of our brand builders members and our honor to have you listening to our show every single week. If you do wanna request a call, go to free brand call.com/podcast, talk to one of our strategists, let us earn your trust. I promise we are really, really good at what we do. And what that is, is helping you find your uniqueness so that you can exploit it in the service of others as Larry Wingett says. So keep coming back in the meantime, we’ll be here. We can week out on the influential personal brand podcast.

Ep 264: Finding an Aligned Business Model with Jesse Terranova

RV (00:02):
Well, if you’ve listened to this show for a while, you’ve probably picked up the theme that the influential personal brand podcast is all about sharing the stories of people who are influential personal brands and how they got that way. And so, you know, we interview New York times bestselling authors and seven figure entrepreneurs and people with millions of followers. And I, and, and then we’re trying to glean the wisdom that we can. Well, one of the things that my wife, my co-host, our CEO, my business partner, AJ did over Christmas was she did this thing called the 12 days of BBG Christmas. And it was filled with lots of bad singing for me and her. And, you know, some mediocre prize is of brand builders, group swag. But one of the things that we thought would be cool was to highlight one of our real life clients who is on the journey right now of building their personal brand.
RV (00:56):
Since, you know, so many times you hear the story of somebody who like, you know, made it so to speak, but, but we Don have that many folks that are going I’m, I’m living it, I’m working it right now. And so that’s how we got to meet Jesse Terranova, who you’re about to meet. He’s an awesome guy. We’ve been working together for a few months at this point, I guess several months you could say, and we’re just gonna talk to Jesse. You’re going to hear a little bit about his story. And I think my hope is that you’ll be encouraged as you hear the, the path that Jesse has been on and maybe it will help highlight some things for yourself on your own path. So Jesse, welcome to the show, man.
JT (01:40):
R it’s a pleasure. Thanks for having me here.
RV (01:43):
So I wanna start with how you, you heard about us because that I’m always, you know, the marketing person in me is always like, okay, what are we doing? That’s working. How are people finding out about us? And, and then, you know, I just love the, almost like the spiritual side of me loves looking at how our intersect with people and what relationships that we have bring us to, to, to people. So how did you first, how did you first find brand builder’s group?
JT (02:16):
Yeah, that’s great. Well, actually from Louis, which I know Louis House which I know is a big big kind of yours, a good friend of yours. And so, yeah, I believe it was back to in 2017. I first was introduced to Lewis, listening to his podcast, reading a couple of his books and he absolutely transformed my life.
RV (02:36):
Wow. So you, you were, you had never heard of him before that. And then what does a friend send you like his podcast or a book, or do you even remember?
JT (02:45):
Yeah, well, I’ve always, I’ve been a very curious person by nature. And so I’ve, I’m big into self betterment and improving my life and, and I’ve always kind of been that way. And so when I started looking into podcasts Lewis’ came up pretty much at the top. At that time. He was he’s he’s, you know, been, been the game since the beginning, as you know. And so I started listening to it and, you know, he was always inspiring, but it’s always the guests that he brings on that, that really helped to you know, bring it all together and, and helped to transform a lot of people’s lives. I know I’m not the only one.
RV (03:20):
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, so yeah, so I was one of those guests, I guess. Okay. You
JT (03:25):
Were, you, you were,
RV (03:26):
You had, so had you, you had never heard, like never had heard of me or brand builders group, like just, you were listening to Lewis’ show and then you’re just like, whatever, whatever one’s next in the playlist. And, and up by up, I come, right.
JT (03:39):
You, yeah, I had not. You, you just came up and a lot of the things that you had said at the time really resonated with me because I think, you know, for me personally it, it’s interesting because you, you help people turn their reputation into revenue, right. And so that’s why I think it was a great match, but, you know, I had, without even knowing it in the past five years had been creating a personal brand on my social media, you know, without a call to action without a monetization strategy. And that’s why you came into my life at a really good time. Cause I said, well, I have all of this these amazing people in my life, these amazing connections, but I guess I just needed more of a direct path to get me to where I wanted to go. And I’m a big believer in proponent in coaching and mentoring. So this was just a relationship way to happen.
RV (04:25):
Yeah. It’s, it’s funny that you mentioned that because one of the things that AJ talks about all the time is how, you know, people think of personal brand as like, oh, it’s social media, or it’s a course, or it’s like, you know, followers, et cetera, but really the way that we define it, it is the digitization and the monetization of reputation that it, all of us have a reputation and, you know, personal branding is basically just digitizing that it becomes visible and then making the conscious choice to say, I wanna, I wanna monetize this. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna do something. So, so you said that there was like five years that you were basically just on social giving, giving out stuff. The you know, like just, were you, were you sharing advice of any kind or were you just sort of like sharing your life?
JT (05:18):
Yeah, I was sharing my life. I, I was sharing my experiences with, with individuals. I mean, I feel like your experiences are deeply etched into your being and your soul. And so it depends on what you do with those experiences. Right. And so I’ve lived a very adventurous life. I’ve traveled to over 40 countries you know, over five continents. And so I’ve just wanted to share what’s possible for people in terms of my story. And I just found it difficult, I guess, with all the noise around us, these days with wanting to do too many different things and, and, you know, understanding now that you need to break through the wall with one niche, with one specific you know, path before you can go ahead and do multiple things,
RV (06:03):
You know, you’re, you’re, you’re spoken like a true brand builder’s member with like the focus and breaking through the wall. Is that, is that, what is that, what jumped out at you most? And that, and that kind of first interview was just how, you know, we always talk about, if you have diluted focus, you get diluted results and, or, or what were, what were some of the things that kind of like you IME you kind of latched onto that was like, ah, I, I think maybe there’s something here for me.
JT (06:31):
Well, man. Yeah, definitely that, but it was more to that. I think, you know, when you hear people speak the words they use sometimes, you know God speaks through other people to you directly. And so I felt at that time, for me personally, you know, you were kind of speaking to me and directly to me on the podcast on a lot of things you were saying in terms of the impact and the meaning. And so, you know, I, I I’ve felt this for a long time. I, I, I believe the meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it. And so, you know, it’s interesting how, you know, you are leading a group of mission driven messengers essentially on that path to, to greatness and, you know, that’s, Lewis’s uniqueness, that’s who it resonates with me so much, but you know, that is Lewis asked on this podcast after every, you know, episode is how do you define greatness? Right. And so that is the ultimate goal for me. And that’s kind of been, and that’s why I Lewis has changed my life.
RV (07:32):
Yeah. That’s awesome. So what, when you first came, okay, so when we start working together, so you kind gonna have this, you know, realization of going, ah, I’ve been sharing my experiences, my travels, you know, these adventures I’ve been on, I think there’s an opportunity to maybe turn this into a business or like make this a more formal kind of part of my, my life, my career. And then what, what were some of the things that you were still struggling with early on in, in, in terms of where you said, Hey, I think, I think brand builders can maybe help me.
JT (08:07):
Yeah. You know, I was going through a really difficult time when I was introduced to Louis originally. I believe it was, it was back 2017, 2018. I had been living in San Diego, I’m originally from the Northeast New Jersey. And, you know, I just, I just think that was lost RO I think that you know, I was just lonely because I had made that relocation out to the other side of the country and I deprived myself, you know, I deprived myself because I, I didn’t create connection in the relationship with myself, others in the world around me. And so I had to learn the hard way, you know? It’s, it’s interesting. It, it took me you know, for, for an evening when I was driving and, and, you know, came to a red light and I was lost.
JT (08:52):
I was confused. I look up and I see you know, a, a big sign right above me near the red light. And it says, you know, Terranova drive. And, and so I’m like, okay, like, that’s interesting. I, I looked to the right and looked to the left and there’s a road that leads up to the left and sure enough, I’m like, okay, I’ll play along. So I drive up the road and then I look on my GPS and as Terranova park. And so, you know, I make a left into this development that leads me to Terranova park. I’m like, this is really interesting. This place is really familiar and uncanny. Like, I feel like I’ve been here before. Right. It was just this really interesting moment. And as I got to the park, R I, I parked there, looked around, it looked very familiar.
JT (09:36):
It was something that I’ve, that I’ve seen before, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. And I looked to my left across the park. That’s a development. And it says Parkside port, and for your audience that is, you know, where I grew up. That’s my parents still live in the development Parkside. And so, you know, in, in the madness you know, there’s meaning. And so you’re, you know, through the breakdowns, you know, that creates breakthroughs. And it took me to hit rock bottom in this time of my life to really understand how important connection is. I was robbing people from the opportunity of helping me. And so part of what I’m doing now is, is trying to cure my loneliness through the years. And I know that’s a problem for a lot of people, you know, and so connection is the cure. And so that’s how, that’s why I feel that what I’m doing right now in the work that I’m in is impactful and is meaningful. Cause it it’s a big problem in, in the world right now.
RV (10:38):
So to, so to use brand builders speak. And for those of you that aren’t aren’t members or aren’t yet members like the, the you know, we, the brand positioning statement is sort of like the, the core foundational work of our first you know, event of we’ve got 14 events, like at 14 parts to our whole journey, but the brand positioning statement is just getting super clear on what is your uniqueness and what problem were you uniquely created to solve in the world. So is loneliness the, the problem of your brand positioning statement?
JT (11:15):
It is.
RV (11:17):
I love that. So, so interesting to hear you talk this out in a, in a public format, you know, like usually when we’re working with clients, it’s very private and going, I love the connect. Like the, I love the alignment of that between, you know, your life and your story of what you’re talking about is like, in this moment, and, and we are always talk, we are always saying how you’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. And so there you are in San Diego feeling totally alone, isolated. And now several years later looking back, realizing there’s a lot of people that feel that way. And so, and then is connection your uniqueness. That’s kind of like what you you’re called to, to bring to the world.
JT (12:00):
Exactly. Yes. The brand is the connection creation.
RV (12:07):
So I got it. So, and, and you said that Parkside court was like the name of the street you grew up up on, back in the Northeast,
JT (12:16):
Roy, it’s the entire development that I grew up in. Oh, it’s an unexplainable event in my life. I love asking people this question, you know, is there something that’s unexplainable that has happened to you? And for me, that is the most unexplainable thing cuz it’s just it doesn’t make much sense that that would happen, but it did, you know, all the way across the country.
RV (12:37):
Yeah. So then talk to us about, so you got clear on your positioning, the brand positioning statement. You go, this is the problem I wanna dedicate my life to, to helping people solve loneliness. Connection is my vehicle or my mechanism or the term we use. My uniqueness are helping them solve the problem. And then how did you talk to me about the monetization strategy that you came up with or, or have come up with is still fairly early, right? Because you’ve only, you’ve only been with us for what? A few months. Six months it’s
JT (13:08):
Yeah, it’s been about six months now, Roy. Yeah.
RV (13:10):
Okay. So then what’s the monetization strategy that you started with or, or are doing like, has it, have you, has it pivoted, has it like, are you still trying to figure it out?
JT (13:21):
No, I, I have a pretty good grasp on it, but it’s funny to individuals who are interested in BBG brand builders group or who are going through the journey right now as you say, in a lot of the, the speakings and recordings, it’s, you know, what we’re trying to do is a lifetime’s work. And so it’s, you know, condensing maybe 15, 20 years for some into, you know, a couple sentences. And so it’s really difficult. And so, you know, when you go through that journey, just have patience with yourself and, you know, it’s, it’s similar to really any journey you go on. It’s just to have patience with yourself and kind break it down. But, you know, in terms of our monetization strategy what I’ve really noticed in the marketplace is obviously, you know, the problem of loneliness, but you know, through all of my travels the main problem that I’ve, that I’ve, that I’ve noticed is, you know, when we are traveling, we’re, you know, more inclined to take, to step to our comfort zone, to meet new people, to try new things, to live our true, authentic selves.
JT (14:22):
And then unfortunately we come home, we gain all this amazing momentum and we take our experiences and we sometimes put them in the closet. We shove ’em away and we don’t integrate anything that we learned into our everyday life. We kind of go back into that rut. And so something that it is we’re looking to create and that we are creating is an experience for individuals in a group travel style, where we bring people together and we show them what’s possible. And it’s really interesting and unique because we’re actually on our first experience right now. It’s interesting as the, the podcast date lined up with, with where we are now, we’re right now, that’s
RV (14:59):
Crazy right now, where, where are, where are so, so you’re so wait a minute. So this is, I just wanna make sure I understand this. So you sign up with us, you join, you decide you’re are gonna lead these kind of like small group experiences, these destination experiences. And then you are at your first one with your first group of clients today, which is the time of this is the recording, right? This will air, but like you’re actually recording from a, the destination.
JT (15:28):
You can’t make it up. I am literally here with eight clients. Wow. and so it’s, it’s a really incredible moment and a really amazing experience for all of us. And like right now, like I chartered a yacht for them. We’re we’re on St. John and the Caribbean the us Virgin islands. And so they’re out on the boat right now. I’m gonna pick them up in a little while, but so it’s, it’s it’s interesting that, wait a
RV (15:51):
Minute, you pat a step on a, a yacht trip
JT (15:53):
To
RV (15:53):
Record a, to record a short podcast. What are you thinking? You’re
JT (15:58):
Crazy. Well, something about me is I also, I worked on a 18 million super yacht for a year and a half, so I I’ve had enough full time. So I’ve done that. I’ve been there, done that, but I just want everybody to enjoy their experience. Of course, someone like yourself, I’m just so excited to be here and chat with you. So, you know, it’s hard to pass up.
RV (16:18):
Well, so well, I can’t resist the opportunity to, to, to you know, work with you on like, so, so what are you, what are you working? Like, what are you working on right now? Like, is there anything that I can help or like we can sort of talk through cuz so you seem like you have a very clear brand positioning statement. So I love, I love, I mean, the problem of loneliness is very clear. It’s widespread. There’s a lot of people out there who are struggling with that. You have an aligned business model that aligned with your brand positioning statement. So if connection is the uniqueness, you know, and for those of you that are listening, one of the, like the way that we do monetization is not like what’s the easiest way to make money. That is that’s not how we teach it the way we teach it is going what does your audience need from you the most and how can you serve them in the deepest way?
RV (17:18):
What does your audience need the most and how can you serve them in the deepest way? So instead of going like, oh, I wanna, you know, I wanna create this or that. You get really, really clear on who you’re trying to serve. And as you get clear on who they are, you get clear on what they need. And as you get clear on what they need, that helps you, that informs your decision to instruct and architect an offering for them. And, and so a lot of times when people don’t make money, it’s, it’s because there’s this breakdown of like, they wanna sell this thing, but it’s not actually the format or the modality that sort of serves the people that they’re with. And, and you gotta, you know, the magic is sort of syncing that up. Well, when I think of Jesse here. So when I think about you, Jesse, you’ve actually got a great alignment there that your, your business model is literally pulling people together in these groups, creating connection, which helps, you know, remove loneliness. It also does all the things that you believe. And clearly you spent a ton of time traveling, whatever you said, 40 countries like, and, and so it aligns with your uniqueness and you’re, you’re teaching people to do things that you’ve done. So, so I love all that. So that feels totally aligned to me.
JT (18:33):
Yeah, absolutely. And, and my message is to create meaning in the relationships with yourself, others, and the world around you. And so this, the journey that I’ve been on, I want to share with others, and that’s why I’m very vocal and open with my story. I feel like it’s transformed my life and, and it is a bit of a testimonial when I do share it with people. They’re impacted by it. And so, you know, it’s not, it’s not about, you know, for me, per se the monetization strategy in terms of Mo monetizing monetizing it. I know that’s very important component of it, but for me, it’s impacting lives and touching lives and serving people and, you know, helping individuals. Cause I know, like I said, after these past two years, you know, I miss the smiling faces of people. I miss the laughter. I miss the connection. I miss the, the experiences that people have and what I’d like to do is, and you know, in the past five years I have worked in travel and, and Toros and design. And so I have design experiences for people itineraries, things like this, and, you know, people, people are looking for something like this. I think that the demand is there. I just think the awareness is missing. I think people aren’t really aware that this is something that is possible for them.
RV (19:47):
So what do you think is the biggest challenge that you’re like struggling with right now in your personal brand, where you go, like, I, I got this clear brand positioning statement, you know, it aligns with my uniqueness, I’ve got a business model you got here, you are in real life in the flesh, like living it, it came true six months, you know, later this dream is a reality, you’re on your first experience, which I love. And you know, I’m proud of you. It’s kind of a weird thing to say, but like, I’m, I’m so proud to like
JT (20:16):
Thank you or living
RV (20:17):
That. So what’s the biggest challenge you think you’re having with your personal brand right now?
JT (20:23):
Well, I think going forward now in, in terms of scalability it’s something that I’ve been putting a lot of thought in, cuz there’s a lot of directions I can go. And for me personally, when I, you know, know joined BBG and this journey I like to, you know, incorporate my own thoughtfulness into the experience that I want to create for others. And so when people arrive, they will receive two books. One is a, a book by Sarah Samuel called mindful traveling. Another book is a journal that people will, will write in and you know, kind of capture their experiences. So when they go home and they’re feeling a little off one day, they can kind of go back and revisit that. But to answer your question, the problem is like I had said a awareness and, and showing people that, you know, Roy, I just think there’s so much fear right now in the world.
JT (21:13):
You know, whether it be people who are, who are not in traveling because of the COVID restrictions because of, they they’ve been, you know, trapped, stuck in their house, you know, loneliness is a bigger killer than obesity and smoking, you know, so it’s interesting how a lot of people are feeling stagnation and, and limited in where they want to go and, and who they want to be. And so, you know, travel can be used in that fashion, in that manner to help people transform their lives. And you know, when people arrive home there’s, you know, this incredible amount of value that I want to add to their lives in terms of courses, in terms of blogs in terms of coaching programs, I mean, that’s kind of why this took a little longer than I wanted it to cause I wanted to, you know, build out a coaching program for myself, but I also wanted to do these experiences and I said, well, which one can I do first? And so I broke it down through your process in the S Asian strategy of which one, not made more sense, but you know, where is, you know, your uniqueness lies at the intersection of who you were me to be, who you, your intersection lies, your uniqueness, lies the intersection of who you were designed to be and who the world needs you to be. And once you find that out,
RV (22:30):
I love it. Jesse. You’re like a, you’re like a, you’re like a brand builder’s fortune cookie, dude. I, you, I love it. Like you, you, I could tell you’re like watching the stuff and you’re doing it. Yes. So I’ll, I’ll I love that. So, so the yeah, if you, if y’all didn’t catch that, so you’re unique to, at the intersection of who you were created to be and who the world needs you to be like the, so, so is it just awareness, like, is that the biggest problem that you’re having is sort of you, you mentioned scalability and then also just like awareness, like drawing more people to it.
JT (23:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I think when people see the word retreat it can means something different for everyone. I like to use the word experience. And so it’s just, you know, depending on how I build it out in terms of the experiences, do I have entrepreneurs come on the experience, do I have people who are really struggling who, you know, may not be able or willing to take that leap and book the flight tomorrow, you know, for the experiences to start now, I, I have, you know, eight people who I shared the experience and they booked their flight in a day. And so those are the people that I like, those people who are spontaneous, who see the vision, who see the value in what it is that I’m trying to create. And, and, and they see the alignment there that I do. But yeah, I think, you know, just, you know, as the, the COVID restrictions start to dwindle away and people get back out there I think it’s a really good time right now to launch this type of business and this type of model because I think it’s very desirable.
JT (23:59):
But it’s just proof of concept and getting the experiences under my belt, leading them, learning you know, as I’m leading them, I’m also, you know, bringing people together. And so that’s basically all I’m really doing other than leading orchestrating and facilitating these experiences with the questions I ask with the different activities that we do. You know, but I think at the end of the day, it will be a bit of a challenge to to show that in the beginning. But, you know, we have some amazing content creators right now on the experience with us. Like they got their drones up in the air and they’re doing some really cool stuff, Roy. So we’re excited to see these promotional videos that we’ll create and all the amazing content that, that we’re creating. So I think we’re gonna be in good shape.
RV (24:43):
Well, yeah, so that’s, that’s great. Well, so one thing that just sort of like pop, pop, pops up for me as you, as you were talking about this, because there are, there are a lot of our members who, you know, when you go through, so phase one, so we, yeah, I mentioned we’ve got these like 14 part processes broken up into four phases. Phase one is really about your branding and positioning. It’s really understanding your identity, who are you defining your uniqueness, clarifying your business model, creating your content, your intellectual IP. And then when you get to phase two, you, we that’s like the marketing phase, which is kind of going out and telling the world that you’re there, which is sort of like where you’re at Jesse. So one, I, I feel compelled to sort of share with you and with you listening and I’ve been talking a lot about this is that for some reason, the default that everybody has right now is thinking that their next customer is go, gonna come from social media, they think, or they think that like their next customer is gonna come from, you know, online or something like that.
RV (26:02):
In reality, almost always when you’re a small business, your next customer doesn’t come from being online, it comes from offline. It comes from the relationships of the people, you know, in real life. Like we spend too much time being consumed with trying to make strangers fall in love, like strangers on the internet. We want strangers on the internet to fall in love with us and follow us. And then like, like all of our stuff and then pull out their credit card and give us five grand or 10 or 20 grand, or like whatever the number is. Meanwhile, the, the, the common misconception, the, the common thing that people overlook is that they’re, they ignore a lifetime full of real life, meaningful, trusted relationships that they have developed with people offline. And so, you know, I’m sharing this to Jesse just because he’s here.
RV (27:10):
But I’m really talking to, to everybody that if I am Jesse, the first place I am looking for my next eight clients is from my current eight clients. It is not strangers on the internet. It is. So, and this is, we actually teach this in pressure free persuasion, which technically is a phase three event, but it’s, it is how we do one-on-one selling. And it is the referrals from the people who have actually experienced the thing that you have done. They are, they are the best forms of marketing, like a changed life. The best form of marketing is a changed life, a transformed life. You know, like we talked about Lewis house, cuz that’s how you, how we met you, right Jesse. But like that was an all offline relationship I met, I met Lewis in real life. We became friends. I helped him.
RV (28:11):
We helped him with some offline stuff that was going on. And then he reached out to us a few years later, asked if we could help. We said we could, he came, we had an in-person experience, you know, here at our house. And then we had a transformed life and, and then he went and told a bunch of people, right. And he just happened to have access to a lot of people. So, you know sure. That’s the other, the other tip is, you know, have Lewis house as your first client, if you can, is a good, a good thing, but it’s well,
JT (28:44):
There you go. RO, there you go. I know that, I know, I know the residual you’re earning is, is off the charts from him. So congratulations there.
RV (28:51):
Well, yeah, no, it’s the, it’s the opposite. It’s the residual that he is earning. But there is you know, the, the point is it was a real life convers, a real life thing. And so it is the, your next customer, the contact information for your next customer is not owned by Facebook and YouTube and Twitter and TikTok the, the contact information for your next customer lives in the cell phone of your current customer. The contact information for your next customer does not, is not owned by Facebook or Instagram or social media. It lives inside the cell phone of your current customer. Your current customers know who your next customers should be. They know better than anyone, including you, your current customers know who’s a, who’s a better fit for your program, even then you, because they are that person. You are not that person.
RV (30:01):
You know, you might have been that person five years ago. But so I, I just wanna make sure that everybody knows that, you know, we call it the law of AJ because she’s, she’s the one always talking about this. You don’t need millions of followers to make millions of dollars, your, it, it comes from your real life relationship. So anyways, don’t know what your plan is, Jesse. But like, when I think about if I were in your spot and I was, I was, you know, doing this business model the way that you were doing it. And I, and I go, okay, I need to, I need to increase my awareness. And you know, and my, my scalability, I would start with the people who are there. And I would, you know, at some point like before they leave, may maybe even before they leave, I would say, you know, you just, I go around the room and just say, what has been your favorite highlight from the last three days?
RV (31:00):
Right. And people will say it was this, and it was this and was this. And then you just kind of simply say, you know, this has been amazing for me. And you share what your highlight is. And you say, if there’s anybody in your life that you think would benefit from having an experience, like the one that we just had, would you be open to introducing them to me? And I would love to just get to know them. If they’re a friend of yours, I’d love to just do a call with them and get to know them. And when you couch it in that way, which is really how it is, they’re going, it’s not, can you refer someone to me so I can sell them? Like, so you can do the work of selling them for me and I can close them and take their money.
RV (31:49):
It’s going, if you truly believe that what you just experienced was amazing. If it Tru, if you truly believe it was incredible, is there someone else in your life you would like to, you know, give, give that, that same gift to, and, and that is one of the things that I think is really missing from the marketplace. And so I know you haven’t been through pressure free persuasion yet because you haven’t, you haven’t, you haven’t been in the program long enough, but that’s, that’s where we’re taking you and that, but, but since you’re in that moment right now, so
JT (32:26):
Precursor, thank you,
RV (32:28):
Pre sure. I would be thinking, I would be thinking about that if you’re, if you’re not sure.
JT (32:32):
Sure.
RV (32:34):
Absolutely. So the, the other thing, so that in terms of awareness, so the other thing, like one of the other things that we have people do is we call it the fast 50 is you know, we, we tell ’em to make a list of 50 people they know in real life, right? So 50 people, you know, in real life. And then what you do is you just call ’em and you just, you, we call it the check in method. But you, you just calling, you check in with them and you say, Hey, how’s, how’s it going? What’s going on? And then you tell ’em what you’re doing. You say, Hey, I know we haven’t talked in a while, but I wanna let you know an update. And the update is that I am now doing blank. And the, the, the little elevator pitch formula that we teach is I help blank to blank.
RV (33:24):
I help blank to blank. So I help insert your avatar to insert your payoff. So you, you know, let’s say Jesse and I were friends, I’d say, Hey, Jesse, I know we have, you know, I know we haven’t talked a while. I wanted to give you a little bit of an update. Like my wife and I started this new business and we are now helping experts to become more well known. And then this is the key don’t try to sell to the person you’re talking to, because these are 50 people that are like, you know, ’em in real life. These are your friends, this is your family. This is like, you know, your, your, your, your roommate from college, don’t try to sell to the people that, you know, that will feel weird for you. You’ll find yourself reluctant to do it. And they will feel reluctant.
RV (34:07):
They, they, they can sometimes feel weird too. So the key is don’t sell to the people, you know, ask the people, you know, for referrals. So what you would do is you say, you know, Jesse my wife and I now started a business. We’re helping experts to become more well known. Is there anybody, you know, who is trying to, you know, anybody, you know, who is a coach? Is there anyone, you know, who is a speaker or an aspiring speaker? And then you ask them and, and another little key is don’t ask to be introduced to people who need what you have ask to be introduced to the type of people you do it for, right? For us, it’s coaches, speakers, authors, consultants, trainers, professional service providers, anybody whose face is attached with their business. Right. But it’s like, we’re actually not typically trying to meet fortune 500 CEOs.
RV (34:57):
We’re typically trying to meet more like small business owners. So you say, is there anyone that you, who is a coach and Jesse would, would immediately go, he wouldn’t have a hundred people. He knows, but he might have three, which is even better. Actually, it’s better for them to not have an overwhelming number. They just go, oh, there’s one specific person that I know. And you go awesome. If I sent you a little note that you could copy and paste, would you be in minded to introducing us? And that’s it. And for most of us, that is, it, it, that is where your first revenue is gonna come from, not from launching a huge podcast or getting a book deal or, you know, going viral on, on social media.
JT (35:43):
Worry. That’s, that’s something that really resonates with me. And, and it’s been coming into my life more. So in terms of my intuition, like, look for the answers from within, right? And it also can branch off and say, look for the answers within your own network and the people that you do know, and the relationships that you have cultivated over time. Cause that’s where, that’s where the value is. Those are the people who know you best. Like you said, people, those people know you better than you know yourself sometimes. And it’s definitely interesting to hear you say that, cuz you know, when you lean into that people will come to your aid and I’ve experienced that in the last couple weeks and months, you know, people have been, I’ve been sharing my story and people are coming, coming to help me out and, and helping to inspire me and to, to, to help propel me forward. And it’s, it’s been a really great journey thus far.
RV (36:27):
Yeah. I love that. And it’s like lean on the people who already trust you versus trying to create trust with strangers on the internet, 60 seconds at a time when only 1% of ’em are gonna see the thing that you’re putting up anyways. So I think, you know, that’s where awareness for everybody. The, the other thing about scalability so scale scalability is also something that we’ve always spent a lot, a lot of time thinking about and studying. And it’s, it’s, it’s actually something that we’ve, we’ve been fairly successful at. You know, that’s one of the, of things, a lot of personal brand struggle is to get to, you know, seven, especially multi seven figures and very few ever get to eight figures. But you know, whenever you think in terms of scalability, the key there is just realizing that custom custom fails standard scales, custom fails standard fails.
RV (37:21):
It’s not so much that custom fails, but custom fails to scale any. And if you just think like conceptually the more customized something is and has to be the less, it is able to be, you know, routine and rhythmic and process oriented. I mean, if you think about manufacturing plot, the they’re they’re mass producing, how are they mass producing they’re mass producing because they do everything the same way every time. So if you wanna, if you want to scale your business and, and scaling your business, isn’t always a good answer. You know, sometimes people think growth just for the sake of growth, but oftentimes it’s like, no, how, what do you, how much do you really, they need to be happy, but if you do wanna scale, you gotta think in terms of, okay, custom fails, but standard scales. So when I think of like your business, Jesse, and I go, okay, what does standardization look like in my business?
RV (38:12):
That’s basically, you know, the way a, a more narrow question of scale is not so much, how do I scale as much as what does standardization look like in my business? So, you know, to me, it’s going, you would either, you would either take kind of like the same group of people you already have. And so you already have the customers taken care of and you go, let me design a new experience for them because then, you know, there’s, there’s like two parts. There’s getting the customers and then delivering the thing. And if you can standardize one part of it, it automatically is gonna scale faster. So you go, okay, well, if I already have the customers, let me rate a new experience. And that thing is for them. The other thing would be to go, let me keep the experience exactly the same and then bring in new people where it gets dicey is if you’re a small, if you’re small and you’re trying to scale is to go, I wanna get a whole new group of people and do a whole different experience. That is just, it’s not that it’s impossible, but it’s gonna be difficult because you have, it’s difficult. It’s difficult. So yeah, you know, and if you have a great, if you have a great location and you have a yacht contr, like if you have, you know, where all the restaurants are and you go, we can just keep running trips back here. You, you have the perfect agenda. Now you can train someone else to facilitate and, you know, et cetera, et cetera,
JT (39:39):
You got it. That’s the idea, you know, over time in, in terms of scaling it out, something that I have in my mind, and I don’t know if it will come to fruition, but it is a vision of mine is to hire other trip, experience leaders around me to go ahead and lead their own experiences. And so once I have each destination one, my, my favorite parts of creating an itinerary, putting, putting experience together is, you know, speaking with the people on site and putting it together, the people at the Villa or the hotel, the torque company, the cars, like all of
RV (40:09):
Design, you used that term early. Yeah. That’s
JT (40:11):
So good. That’s me. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, you know, I’ve worked in design, I’ve worked in design, traveling tourisms and design the last five years and it’s been amazing. And all of my experiences that I have in the past have brought me to this place that I’m at right now. I’ve worked you know, as, as a recruiter for a couple years. And I don’t know if you, I don’t know if you attest to this, but in my opinion, you know, recruiting is one of the most difficult sales jobs in the world because you’re selling people and what’s more, what’s more, you know, what’s, people are more unpredictable than the stock market. And so it’s really difficult, you know, in those relationships. And, you know, I, I actually have a similar similar beginning point similar origin. I, I was an accountant as well. I wasn’t as great in in Excel as you were, but
RV (40:55):
Well, I I’m decent at Excel, but I, I was not a great accountant. It was actually the worst grade that I ever got in school was accounting in college. So, but that’s funny. So you, you, but, but that the you’re like an architect. I mean, you are designing this experiential, this experience for people and, you know, know, and I, I think, I, I think that’s, I think that’s awesome, Jesse, and I would go getting other people to lead. It becomes even easier once you’ve done it five times, and this is the agenda, here’s the exercises. And here, it’s just, you can run that. You can run on a autopilot. It’s,
JT (41:35):
It’s a proof of concept. Exactly. It’s, you know, hiring those individuals and having a built out framework with my values with the things that I want to spread, you know, in, in my experiences. And so once we have that all figured out people will go ahead and, and run those experiences under my philosophy under my framework, under my values. And, you know, for example, this is called experience St. John. And so I’ve, I lived on St. John 2019 and 2020. I know the islands really well. I have some amazing contacts here. And then, you know, who’s to say in, in, you know, a couple years, you know, I can’t be running it for my laptop. Right. Or, you know, I want to year, but there are other destinations that I wanna also build out. Like I live in Portugal now. I moved there last November, so there’s gonna be an experience Portugal. And so it’s just really exciting to see how things are, are going.
RV (42:27):
Yeah, that’s great, man. I, I, I love that. I, and I love that for you. And it’s like, I think if you’re, if you’re drawing in a energy from that, and that’s what you’re passionate about, that’s totally unique. Like how many people are there in the world that do tourism design, you know, in this kind of way, like versus, you know, I mean, there’s a lot of courses. Like there’s a lot of people that make courses, for sure. I think this, this can really be magical and unique. And if you make it unique, right? Like if you focus on this thing and you go, how can I make this extraordinary? How can I make it life changing? Mm. What, what can, how can I serve my audience in the deepest way? They will have a transformed life and then they will go do the marketing for you, right?
RV (43:14):
Like they will help tell people, versus if you’re always having to create new things, you’re it, you’re when you have diluted focus, you get diluted results. Like you become spread across so much stuff versus just going, what would make this over the top life changing transformational to where they went back and they had to tell everybody, I just had the most unbelievable three days of my life. That’s what Tony Robbins did when people walked on fire, that’s exactly what he did with the whole fire walking thing. It was like, it was remarkable, worth remarking about it. And you, and if you, you dedicate some time, you know, to that, by having, you know, fewer, fewer things, then you, it it’ll, it’ll spread and do everything you need, man. So I love it. I love, I love this idea, tourism design. I think, I mean, Jesse, you’re so warm and, and humble and uplifting and encouraging. And man, I, I, I feel like there’s, there’s no doubt, like you’re on such a great path. Congratulations on your first experience that you’re leading. Although I, the only thing I don’t understand is why you would miss out on the yacht just to talk to us,
JT (44:28):
But we,
RV (44:30):
We are, we’re so grateful for you, man. We’re so grateful.
JT (44:34):
Thank you, Ru it’s a, it’s a pleasure to be here and it’s been amazing connecting with you and and thanks for all of the tips and advice. I I appreciate it and I value it.
RV (44:44):
Yeah, well we, we we’re excited to continue following your journey and being a part of your journey and, and you know, if somebody is out there right now, Jesse, and they’ve kind of been listening to the podcast and they’re going, eh, I don’t know about if BBG is for me, like, is there anything that you would say that you would go, ah, here’s, here’s how, you know, this is for you, or like, here’s, here’s, you’re looking to get blank. This is what I’ve really, that I think would help.
JT (45:14):
Yeah. I think, like I had mentioned with travel we find that travel is an accelerator in the connection process. You’re more inclined to take those risks to step outside your comfort zone and live your true, authentic self while you’re traveling. And so, you know, it’s, it’s difficult to hop on a plane for the first time, eight hours across the world, not be terrified. Cause of course I was when I first did that. Right. So you can always start out you know, going to the city that you live in right now over the weekend doing a quick trip to walk around in different restaurants, different areas that you’ve never been to, you know, taking advantage of the weekends. But you know, it’s interesting because people are scared right now and they’re fearful. So all I say is, you know, for me personally, it’s been really difficult in terms of my journey. But there’s a reason why planes take off against the wind and not with the wind. So I’m excited to continue to take off and, and thanks for all your help and, and with BBG, I’m just so blessed to be a part of it.
RV (46:10):
Yeah. All right. My friend, well, we wish you the best and we’ll stay in touch. We’ll talk to you soon.
JT (46:18):
Worry. Thank you again. Talk soon.