021_WWK_AUDIO === Jason: [00:00:00] If you don’t have original research, you are just sharing opinions [00:00:05] and. If you look around these rooms, there’s a ton of people filled with opinions and even great [00:00:10] stories. But if you want people to invest and invest significant money [00:00:15] in you or in your business, you know what you’re trying to offer to them, the problem you’re trying to solve, you need data [00:00:20] to back it up.[00:00:25] [00:00:30] [00:00:35] Rory: How do you truly stand out as a thought leader in a world of ai? How do you get [00:00:40] yourself featured in the media? How do you get booked to speak on the biggest [00:00:45] stages? Those are all topics that we’re gonna talk about today on this edition of the Wealthy and Well-Known [00:00:50] podcast. I’m being joined by one of my best friends, one of the smartest people [00:00:55] that I know, and also one of the most successful personal brands in the world. You’re about to meet Jason [00:01:00] Dorsey, who is a bestselling author. His most recent book is Z Economy. He is one of [00:01:05] the highest paid, most booked speakers, particularly in the non-celebrity [00:01:10] category, but as a true thought leader and expert, uh, one of the busiest speakers in the [00:01:15] world today. Uh, he also runs with his wife, the Center for Generational Kinetics, which [00:01:20] is. Perhaps, at least in my opinion, the most respectable research firm [00:01:25] in the world. We are clients of his and we’re gonna talk about how using [00:01:30] original research is a huge part of the future of building personal brands. Just in the last [00:01:35] week, he has had inbound media requests from, uh, media or. [00:01:40] From media outlets like CNBC, Bloomberg, [00:01:45] CNN. He’s regularly been featured in the New York Times and several other places. The USA [00:01:50] today, their work appears all over and they work with some of the most respectable corporate clients in the world [00:01:55] to create. Proprietary research, and also, as I mentioned, we have been a client of [00:02:00] theirs and we referred several of our members at Brand Builders Group to do original research studies.[00:02:05] It’s one of the things that we are inviting our authors at Mission-Driven Press to do, uh, as part of a [00:02:10] regular pub. Let’s just cut that part about MDP. So I’m excited to have [00:02:15] Jason, welcome to the show, buddy. Hey, thank you. Jason: Thrilled to be here. Thrilled to be a [00:02:20] non-celebrity, busy speaker. I knew you were gonna say something about it. Yes. Finally I did it. I’m just one tier [00:02:25] below those celebrities. Rory: Well, I, I, you know, and, and it’s, you know, I say that tongue in cheek, but it’s, it is [00:02:30] true and it’s, and it’s a pride point because you get paid a lot of money [00:02:35] as a speaker and to be in boardrooms and to be on boards and to be an advisor [00:02:40] to companies. It has nothing to do with your celebrity. I mean, it has something to do with [00:02:45] some of your celebrity, but it has mostly everything to do with your research. Jason: Mm-hmm. [00:02:50] Rory: And the original insights that you bring. So I wanna start right there. Tell [00:02:55] us why research Jason: mm-hmm. Rory: Is, has been a [00:03:00] critical part of your journey, and why do you think original research is [00:03:05] important for personal brands? You know, in the future? Jason: I have a, a [00:03:10] core belief that has driven my work and, and caused all the growth for our business and with our [00:03:15] clientele. And that is if you own the data, you own the conversation. [00:03:20] And it changed my life, changed my career, changed everything about our business, the [00:03:25] opportunities we got, the influence we had, the people we got to meet, the, the work we got to do. Because [00:03:30] the world right now is full of opinions, tons of opinions, and it’s dominated by opinions and [00:03:35] observation. The problem now is executives and entrepreneurs and [00:03:40] business leaders and people making big bets. Don’t wanna make them based on [00:03:45] opinions and observations. Rory: Mm. Jason: They, they already have enough risk in their life and in their business. [00:03:50] They are trying to ground their decisions, ground their strategy, base their [00:03:55] vision on tangible, real data that they can trust and believe in to [00:04:00] inform and really give them an advantage. And so what that means for us and for our clients [00:04:05] is we’re the people that our competitors cite. Which is amazing. I [00:04:10] have this, this, this core belief that if you are having to cite other people’s data to make your point, [00:04:15] you are not the expert somebody else is. Now, you may be adding your own perspective to it and [00:04:20] stories and all that. I got it, I got it. But the reality is you want to be the one who cited. And [00:04:25] so for us, when we lead statistically accurate studies, whether that’s nationally or globally, [00:04:30] all of a sudden we’re the source of truth. And I think that’s so important right now in the age of ai. [00:04:35] It’s easier than ever before to create content on any platform in any way you want. But what you can’t create is [00:04:40] statistically valid research that leaders are looking for to separate myth from [00:04:45] truth. And I mean, you’ve heard me speak a bunch of times at these big events like. I believe it’s [00:04:50] never been more important, like truly a calling to separate myth from truth. It is so [00:04:55] hard these days to know what’s real and what’s just made up. And when you give people real [00:05:00] data that they can bank on, that they can truly make tough decisions. ’cause remember, [00:05:05] decisions today are high risk. When you think about executives, they’re trying to not only [00:05:10] grow their business, they’re trying to keep their people employed, right? They’re, they’re trying to deliver sure for customers and shareholders, [00:05:15] but they’re feeling the pressure. Entrepreneurs today, more competition than ever before. Put out a new [00:05:20] book, more books published this year than ever before. So how do you not just stand out? I [00:05:25] think that’s too low of a bar. How are you truly unique and own a space where [00:05:30] you are recognized as the one that’s leading the field, maybe even [00:05:35] inventing a field. And, and the way I think about that is you wanna have the data. You wanna own the data [00:05:40] that fills in the gaps. It’s not that like, you know, I speak on generations. It’s not [00:05:45] that millennials are entitled, okay, that’s interesting, but not new. Why? What shaped that? [00:05:50] What caused it? Is it actually true? Why are millennials two generations, not one? Why do [00:05:55] millennials most dislike other millennials in the workforce? Right? These are things that if you can get to the root cause, we’re [00:06:00] like, oh, I never thought about that. I always wondered that. That’s the emotional response [00:06:05] that drives people to wanna work with you because you’re hitting them logically. Like, okay, that makes total sense. And emotionally [00:06:10] I’ve seen that, or that answers a core question of mine versus here’s another story or [00:06:15] a poem, or, you know, three points for my life. I think people, particularly executives and leaders, [00:06:20] and those in positions of responsibility, they like all that sort of stuff. There’s a place for it. [00:06:25] But when it comes to big decisions. Challenging times, uncertain economies, more [00:06:30] competition than before. AI’s emergence. They’re looking for research and data they can count on [00:06:35] and it’s, it’s why clients like you and others. Come to us over and over and over again and [00:06:40] all these big fancy bestselling authors who we love working with and celebrities, but so many [00:06:45] corporations use us to do their thought leadership research Rory: well, and, and that’s [00:06:50] interesting nuance to me that never, I never fully understood. I mean, it, it took a while [00:06:55] for me to really understand how you use research and I was like, why [00:07:00] would companies. Pay all of this money for you to do research and then they don’t [00:07:05] share the research with other people. Like as a thought leader, I’m going, the whole reason I wanna do a research study is to put it [00:07:10] out to like Yeah. You know, establish our thought leadership and, and all that. And what you just said is [00:07:15] going, there’s, there’s kind of two ways to use the data. One is that these companies invest a lot of [00:07:20] money for actual. Research and data to make their own internal [00:07:25] strategic decisions. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: And that’s why it’s like they’re not sharing it, it’s a competitive advantage. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: But [00:07:30] that also ties into why personal brands need to have data, because that’s [00:07:35] what the big companies, and that’s what, you know, very intellectual, sophisticated [00:07:40] types of, you know, buyers. That’s what they’re looking for and that’s what they’re gonna respond to. [00:07:45] Mm-hmm. Not just, oh, you had a, you had a video. Go vi, you had a TikTok. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: Video go [00:07:50] viral. Jason: Yeah. And, and the way I think about it is in the corporate world, you know, our clients [00:07:55] are banks and healthcare systems and huge tech companies and, you know, you can just go through the [00:08:00] whole long list. And I like to say they, it’s not even 80 20, they probably keep [00:08:05] 90, 95% of the discoveries that we, um. You know, gain for them [00:08:10] internal and use it to inform their strategy. You know, I speak at all these corporate boards and no recording, like [00:08:15] all this sort of stuff, right? Like this is their competitive advantage. Their competitive intelligence is gonna shape their [00:08:20] strategy for the next five, 10 plus years. And they’ll share maybe five, max, 10% of the [00:08:25] discoveries because they then want to put out, Hey, we found all these things. This is informing our product [00:08:30] roadmap. This is informing, uh, the way we’re delivering services or pr developing new products or serving our [00:08:35] employees. So they still wanna be known for it. But they’re gonna keep most of it internal. On the personal brand [00:08:40] side, it’s completely flipped, Rory: which has also become a, a huge [00:08:45] new pool of people for you. And I wanna understand why has that happen? You know, you used to do. More [00:08:50] corporate where it’s like, it’s more internal. Yeah. Decision making. But now there is, uh, you [00:08:55] know, a rising tide of, of entrepreneurs and personal brands who are coming to you. So, Jason: [00:09:00] mm-hmm. Rory: Why? And and how is that work? Jason: Well, what happened originally is a lot of people [00:09:05] coming to me going, Jason, how are you in the media all the time? Rory: Right? Jason: How are you keynoting these huge conferences? ’cause [00:09:10] it’ll be like me. Some Hall of Fame football player, a former president, you know, and maybe somebody [00:09:15] from McKinsey or some Harvard economist, and they’re like, how are you featured on the main stage and have more time [00:09:20] than any of them. Yeah. Which happens all the time. And I’m like, ’cause people want insights they can use, they [00:09:25] want data they can’t get anywhere else, so they go. Oh, I got it. I could totally use that. Or that [00:09:30] solves that problem or I never thought about it that way. Or you know, you wanna really fill in these gaps for them. [00:09:35] And so once I started being on all those stages all around the world, and the beautiful thing about data [00:09:40] is it translates and it travels, it has handles, people take it all over the place. I mean, we do so much [00:09:45] international work, it really opens up markets. So, so that happened. And then all these personal brands who [00:09:50] you and I know are like Jason. Love you, man, but you’re not huge on Instagram. [00:09:55] You don’t have a big LinkedIn following, Rory: right? Jason: You know, you’re not all these things like, how is this happening? I’m like, well, we [00:10:00] have what they can’t get anywhere else, right? And, and because of that, once you’re the [00:10:05] source of truth, everybody wants you. And, and so it started like that. So then we started working with a few personal [00:10:10] brands and it was like, Hey, you know, we’ll do for you what we’ve done for us. Um, but we need your help. And I think this is a, a [00:10:15] real key. Personal brand research strategy and thought leadership strategy is different than [00:10:20] corporate, right? When it comes to personal brands, we wanna really understand what is the position you’re [00:10:25] seeking to own. Mm. You want to be the source of truth, you wanna be the one who cited. So [00:10:30] we think about it as like, what are your dream headlines that will come out of your research study? Or [00:10:35] what are the questions that if you knew the answer to everybody would cite you or come to you or hire [00:10:40] you? When you think about like the core markets for the people that, for example, that, that you know, uh, so [00:10:45] many who learned from you. Entrepreneurs, they love that dramatically grows their business. They make so much money off our [00:10:50] studies, all these personal brands. When you have coaches and consultants and people that are selling professional [00:10:55] services or parts of membership, they love it. ’cause now they have something that’s tangible. They can turn into all these things, [00:11:00] it’s evergreen, and they’re now the source of truth in something that’s very intangible. So all of a [00:11:05] sudden those sorts of groups released it. Then with authors, what happened is they’re like, oh, well. I went [00:11:10] to go sell the book, Jason, and when I put in there that we were gonna do a national research study, we got all this interest. We’ve [00:11:15] had so many friends get huge book deals or choose to do their own because they were able to generate so much [00:11:20] business from it. So it’s when you do a study, you get something tangible out of it. That then [00:11:25] drives something tangible. And I think so much today doesn’t do that for people, particularly personal brands. Rory: Mm-hmm. [00:11:30] Jason: You know, there’s a lot of hype out there. Rory: It’s a lot of hype and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of people [00:11:35] with fancy demo reels ’cause there’s good video editors that can make you look better on stage. There’s a lot of people [00:11:40] with big social media followings. ’cause you can fake that. There’s no shortage of books that are [00:11:45] coming out and, you know, some legitimate bestsellers, some not so legitimate, but get to say [00:11:50] they’re bestseller, whatever. Yeah. Um, but. It’s interesting because you do, [00:11:55] you do these research, this is what a research report looks like, right. Jason: For state of Gen [00:12:00] Z. Rory: This is, this is your internal one. So a lot of times when you put these together for clients, [00:12:05] they, um, you know, this is what a, like a deliverable would be. You would give them data and then they [00:12:10] would turn it into maybe something like this. Mm-hmm. Is to go one, one thing that’s been [00:12:15] fascinating to me is it took us seven years to write the Wealthy Well-Known book. [00:12:20] Great book. Like to make it a New York Times bestseller. Jason: Mm-hmm. [00:12:25] Rory: It took us a few months to work with you to create the trends in personal branding, [00:12:30] national research study. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: The thought leadership that came from that was [00:12:35] equal to, if not far, greater than having a New York Times bestselling book. Jason: Mm-hmm. Because. [00:12:40] Rory: It was fast, it was relevant, like timely. Mm-hmm. And it was [00:12:45] practical. Mm-hmm. Right. And even this is our experience and our frameworks and things, but the numbers are, it’s like the, [00:12:50] it’s like the numbers never lie kind of a thing. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: So this is something that I [00:12:55] think there’s not enough personal brands thinking about. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: And going, especially in a world of [00:13:00] artificial. This is a way to stand out big time. Jason: Yeah. And, and you know, I speak at a [00:13:05] lot of events now for personal brands, which I never did before. I’m having a blast doing it. And my, [00:13:10] my mission or my calling, and I’m very direct, uh, which is if you don’t have [00:13:15] original research, you are just sharing opinions. And [00:13:20] if you look around these rooms, there’s a ton of people filled with opinions and even great stories. But [00:13:25] if you want people to invest and invest significant money. In you [00:13:30] or in your business or in, in, you know, what you’re trying to offer to them. The problem you’re trying to solve, like you [00:13:35] need data to back it up. Mm. And people get hung up a lot of times. Like, oh, well Jason, I’m not a [00:13:40] researcher. I’m like, Hey, I got a lot of researchers. I got that part covered. What we need is people [00:13:45] that have a vision of a space they want to own questions that they feel are not [00:13:50] solved, that if we’re solved would, would really drive change. And they have. And [00:13:55] this is something that, you know, we turn out a lot of people that, that come to us now because I’m like, look, if you don’t really know [00:14:00] your space, doing a study is not gonna change anything for you. If anything, you’re [00:14:05] gonna have an amazing study, but you’re still not gonna have the depth. But if you’ve been doing this for [00:14:10] several years or many years, and you really have a, a point of view in a position [00:14:15] like a study is, is game changing for you? And you know, for us, like most of the studies we do now are [00:14:20] 60 days or 90 days. Rory: And as an entrepreneur, you know, approach. You [00:14:25] know, this is a problem we can solve by writing you a check. Like, I can’t, I can’t solve, I can’t [00:14:30] get someone to write a book for me by writing a check. Like I have to put the sweat equity into the whole, whole thing. [00:14:35] But like, we pretty much just write you a check, have a few conversations, you guys go do all the [00:14:40] work here of like the grunt work of making sure it’s statistically valid, fielding the samples, you know, and then [00:14:45] even analyzing the data and giving back to us like what you found. Um, by the way, if, if [00:14:50] anyone is listening, if you go to free brand [00:14:55] training.com/research, so free brand training.com/research, [00:15:00] we will connect you directly to Jason and his team if you wanna explore and kind of [00:15:05] think about, okay, does, could a study fit for you? Um, and you do different types of studies that, you know, kind of [00:15:10] meet different budgets and, and different scopes and magnitudes and, and things like that. Um, Jason: yeah, [00:15:15] our typical client, the way we think about it today is. They, they’re gonna invest [00:15:20] in this study, the whole study beginning to end about four hours over the [00:15:25] project. And the most important thing is they need a vision, right? What is the space you wanna own? [00:15:30] I would say most people have it, some don’t. And when they don’t, we’re like, Hey, go figure out these questions. Like [00:15:35] take some time, talk to your advisors, your friends, your family. Mm-hmm. Once you know those come back, we’ll do all the work back. Yeah. And then come [00:15:40] back. But a lot of times people come to us say, Hey, I got a book idea. Can you do a study to inform the book? [00:15:45] Absolutely. We do that all the time, or I’ve written the book. Rory: You’re doing that right now for one of our mission driven press [00:15:50] authors, Eric Thomas, et the hip hop preacher, which is interesting because. Jason: He’s fantastic. Rory: He’s [00:15:55] fantastic. I Jason: mean, Rory: so inspiring. One of the best speakers in the history of the world. Jason: Yeah. Rory: One of the biggest social media [00:16:00] followings. AJ and I grew up watching his videos, but like also classically known as a [00:16:05] motivational speaker, even though he’s a PhD. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: But now this is the first time [00:16:10] ever. Mm-hmm. Where he is. Releasing original [00:16:15] research. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: Right. Which will be true thought leadership, not just insights and inspiration, which [00:16:20] he’s always done. Mm-hmm. Very, very well. Yeah. But now even at his level going, yeah, I want, [00:16:25] I want to have that academic substantiation, I want to have that objectivity, I want [00:16:30] that data driven, um, backing to what I’m saying. And that’s, that’s another, another [00:16:35] powerful part of this for personal brands watching is that. [00:16:40] You feel much more like a professional when you’ve done a study. Mm-hmm. There’s an element just like [00:16:45] when you publish your first book. Yeah. Or just like, you know, you first launched your first website, you’re like, oh, you know, it [00:16:50] starts with a business card. It’s like, oh, I’m official. I have a business card. Oh, now I have a website. And then it’s like, oh, I have a book. Oh, I have a [00:16:55] bestselling book. This is one of those things where you go like, whoa, even though you [00:17:00] guys did the work, it’s like, this is my research. Yeah. It’s my space, it’s my [00:17:05] questions, it’s my vision. And now I am truly like [00:17:10] the preeminent thought leader. And when AJ and I did the trends in personal branding, national research study, we [00:17:15] included in the book. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: Uh. Jason: Well, and y’all got on Good Morning America right away. That’s Rory: right. Yeah. It was Jason: [00:17:20] incredible Rory: At first, the day after we released our research study. Mm-hmm. I mean, we got on Good Morning America. This [00:17:25] is no lie. We put it out there for free and they literally were like, Hey, we [00:17:30] saw your study, can you come on tomorrow? Um, now we didn’t know it was Good Morning America. It was actually like [00:17:35] some other affiliate and then the interview went so well. Good Morning America picked it up and aired [00:17:40] it. We didn’t even know. And it was just like. Wait, what? Like how many years of doing [00:17:45] 10,000 other things would we try to do and not ever get that? Jason: Yeah. And people are always like, uh, you know, [00:17:50] ’cause I’ve been on the Today Show, I don’t know how many times, right? All these 60 minutes, 20, like all of these TV [00:17:55] shows, tons of ’em. We were in the cover store in the New York Times and people like, how do you do that? I’m like, look, if, if you [00:18:00] bring journalist data. They are ecstatic. Like it makes [00:18:05] their job so easy. It’s something they can cite and then they want your perspective. And I think that’s [00:18:10] really, that’s the part that’s hard for people sometimes to conceptually understand. I, I just did a media interview, I guess [00:18:15] maybe two days ago now, and I was on this journalist, really well known journalist and she said, Jason, I’m so [00:18:20] happy to talk with you because you are bringing data and actual research and every other person that we’ve [00:18:25] interviewed just had opinions and it is such a difference. And I saw the story ’cause it just came out and [00:18:30] I included. All through the story. Hmm. And, and I, and I just think like if, when [00:18:35] people realize how straightforward it is to get this done and like, Hey, you have your own study, you own all the [00:18:40] data, we own nothing. Yeah, we do the work, but it’s your vision. You’re approving everything and [00:18:45] then you determine of all the data and insights that you found. ’cause it’s packed with discoveries. You get [00:18:50] to share them with the world, not us. This is all you. We are just here as a resource and a [00:18:55] partner and we will take the mystery away. Like we’ll do all the hard work, but, but you have to know enough about your [00:19:00] space where when we give it to you, you can just run with it and let the world know, because that’s our mission, right? Yeah. Our, our, our mission [00:19:05] is, is to elevate thought leaders through research. And, and if we do that, [00:19:10] uh, it. It. Like that’s my legacy, right? That’s the thing I get fired up about. That’s why I [00:19:15] speak at all these events and I’m like, look, if nothing else in this room changed except y’all went out and all did studies [00:19:20] and were able to then elevate the expertise of the world because of that, like, cool, I’m done. Like [00:19:25] that is the greatest thing ever because all the millions and millions and millions of people that are gonna be helped that way, [00:19:30] sometimes people come to us to, which is interesting, and they’ll say, well, you know, um, what if we find things we don’t like? [00:19:35] I’m like, you will find things you don’t like. That’s research. But [00:19:40] you share what you’re gonna share, right? And, and oftentimes, Rory: but also you should wanna know, like [00:19:45] you, you should want to know, like if, if you’re truly trying to help people and you’re truly trying to be a thought [00:19:50] leader, you should want to know if something you’re saying is wrong. Like if you have a point of view that [00:19:55] is inaccurate or incorrect and you’re out there advancing it, it’s like you wanna know that [00:20:00] and it becomes a fascinating thing to talk about. Your own misconception about, [00:20:05] like, I had this misconception coming into the research study. Mm-hmm. Um, like I couldn’t believe in our [00:20:10] study as an example. I never thought doctors would. Be an [00:20:15] important market for us, that, that people cared, that their, that, that, you know, we asked this [00:20:20] question about which profession does it matter? Mm-hmm. Uh, to a consumer that they have a personal brand. [00:20:25] Doctors was the number one profession. Mm-hmm. 61% of Americans said they want their [00:20:30] doctor to have an established personal brand. Doctors weren’t even on our radar as [00:20:35] prospects for what we do at Brand Builders Group. And now we work with Dr. Josh Ax and we work with Dr. Gabrielle [00:20:40] Lyon, and we work with all of these really incredible, you know, chiropractors and, and, and, and [00:20:45] wellness people because it’s like, oh, in the health space, it matters to be able to like build a [00:20:50] personal brand that you can trust. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: So those, you wanna know when you’re wrong. [00:20:55] If you, you should want to know. Jason: Yeah. And, and you know, the way I like to think about it is like, [00:21:00] it’s, it’s new information that can inform whatever it is you’re sharing. And sometimes you find that, that, Hey, I’ve been [00:21:05] saying something and it doesn’t land anymore in the way people think, right? Like Wolf will go out and, I mean, I’ll, I’ll [00:21:10] give you example. We were just doing studies on employee benefits, uh, for one of our corporate clients. And [00:21:15] free mental health services was at the top. And the company goes, we don’t offer that at [00:21:20] all. I’m like, well that’s not a mistake. It’s an opportunity. ’cause clearly this is the number [00:21:25] one thing that this whole group wants, that if you offer it shows it’s gonna [00:21:30] drive recruiting and retention and long-term commitment. Or on the flip side, we just did. ’cause you know, I [00:21:35] speak on generations. Uh, we just did a study and what Gen Z most wants more than anything else [00:21:40] is stability. Stability is one of the things that we can actually offer for [00:21:45] many in Gen Z. We just don’t emphasize it. And then we look at, well, what actually messages stability [00:21:50] for them to, right. It think Rory: they want ping pong tables and like Jason: Yeah. Scheduling, flexibility and all this other stuff. Yeah. [00:21:55] Yeah. And it’s, but it makes sense. You go through years of instability, of course you want stability on the other side. [00:22:00] And every time that I can present that with our research and the leaders, [00:22:05] whether they’re in person or at some, you know, big virtual event, they’re like. Rory: Wow, Jason: I never thought about that. That [00:22:10] makes so much sense. Like as soon as you do, the more you do that, the more they’re ready to hear [00:22:15] everything else. Right. And, and, and I think that’s the key point. Great research advances a [00:22:20] conversation. Mm. And I tell people like, just advance the conversation and [00:22:25] it doesn’t even have to matter. Like, are you right or wrong or this or that? It’s like you’re just trying to advance the [00:22:30] conversation. And that’s the part that drives so much media for us because. I don’t have an [00:22:35] agenda. I’m just like, Hey, this is what we found. We were shocked, we were surprised. We were [00:22:40] thrilled. We were all these things. I, I just did an interview. I was like, we did not wanna discover this [00:22:45] at all. Rory: Mm. Jason: This is super concerning, but it’s [00:22:50] real and it’s the truth and we need to be talking about this. Rory: Yeah. Jason: And it changed all the energy. Rory: [00:22:55] So again. As a business owner, part of what’s amazing is just like this is a problem [00:23:00] we can solve by writing a check and partnering with you. If you’re, if you’re curious about that, go to free brand [00:23:05] training.com/research. We’ll connect you to Jason and their team. Um, [00:23:10] I wanna talk about what to do with the study once you have it. Right? So you invest this money. Mm-hmm. [00:23:15] Your team goes out, does your thing. We collaborate together. We come up with this amazing, brilliant, like, [00:23:20] these are the insights. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: Um. This, sitting in a room on a table [00:23:25] is not gonna do anything. Mm-hmm. So what do you do with your, [00:23:30] your most successful clients? What do they do with this to, to turn it into driving [00:23:35] business? Jason: Yeah. Our, our belief is you should be able to make at least a 10 x [00:23:40] return on your money. But that 10 x return is not gonna come from doing the great study. We’re gonna crush it. [00:23:45] Like we, we crush our studies. People love it. Like we know they’re gonna be amazing. [00:23:50] All of the return is gonna be putting the studies discoveries into action. Rory: Hmm. Jason: And [00:23:55] so what does that mean? We, we have something called our finding findings activation framework, but it’s how do you take [00:24:00] the data and discoveries and message ’em to the world? In such a way that it drives your key business [00:24:05] outcomes. As you can probably guess, I’m into data and we should be able to measure everything. We should [00:24:10] be able to measure all the results from the study. And I don’t mean putting the insights into action. That’s absolutely true. If [00:24:15] it’s an internal study, meaning a company is leading the study to drive a a, a business strategy, but from an [00:24:20] external revenue generation standpoint, which is how personal brands should think about it. Mm-hmm. This should be able [00:24:25] to drive leads. It should make, uh, should get you paid a lot more Money should drive media, should drive [00:24:30] longer term relationships and should help you to, um, offer to be able to solve bigger and different [00:24:35] challenges. So the way we do that is we’re like, okay, great. You get this beautiful data set, you get your [00:24:40] PowerPoint and let’s pretend that your findings deck is, um, 60 slides, right. I’ve already pulled out all [00:24:45] the stories. Here’s all the great stories. Here’s the charts, here’s all the headlines, here’s [00:24:50] everything. Served it up to you. What do you do? So the first thing we tell them to do is you’re gonna go through there and you’re [00:24:55] gonna find the 10 or 20 that just give you tingles. They get you fired up, you’re gonna [00:25:00] go circle ’em, right all over. Star, do whatever. But you need to start to figure out what are the stories you want to tell? ’cause [00:25:05] there’s not just one story in a study. There’s 10, 20, 30 study, uh, stories and you wanna be able [00:25:10] to tell them sometimes together, and a lot of times individually ’cause different stories resonate with different audiences.[00:25:15] So we’re gonna go from that and say, okay, what is the best way to reach those that you want [00:25:20] to reach? So I speak to corporate executives and leaders and so forth. So for me, they [00:25:25] want white paper and they want that because it shows sort of depth around the discoveries. So [00:25:30] that means we find those 10 or 20 insights and we go in and we have a framework which is basically like, what did you [00:25:35] find? What does it mean? Why is it urgent or important? What do I do with it? So then we fill that [00:25:40] out and that’s how we begin to develop these white papers. But for other clients of ours, like entrepreneurs [00:25:45] and some these personal, they are not interested in white papers. They’re like, what am I gonna do with white paper? Mm-hmm. They instead want a video [00:25:50] series where we’re gonna take each insight and turn it into evergreen videos so they can go and share for a year, two [00:25:55] years. Maybe we turn into a course where all of a sudden now you have a research ba, a research backed course, [00:26:00] you know, for so many of our clients use it for books. Some are for books they wanna do in the future, some are for books they’re [00:26:05] working on now. My favorite, we have people that release their study to go promote books they’ve already done. Rory: Mm [00:26:10] Jason: Right. They’ll just add bonus material or say they’ve updated it or they’ll just release the study [00:26:15] and then use that to get media again, to be able to then talk about the book. Studies give you permission to [00:26:20] talk with people. Gives permission for people to wanna listen to you ’cause you have something they can’t get anywhere else. We [00:26:25] also, like, we use it a lot to, um, for all kinds of demand gen. So while people turn into [00:26:30] infographics, while people turn into short form videos, animated videos, um, people turn it [00:26:35] into, uh, op-eds. Like I was, uh, I was on one of the big media outlets for an oped I wrote, [00:26:40] um, which was amazing on, on marketplace. So like a lot of these things are just. [00:26:45] You should have at least a year, if not two years of content in a single [00:26:50] study. People always ask me, well, do I have to do another study? Or I’m like, I’m like, you can, but it’s better to max out [00:26:55] the value from this. And so we show you. Here’s how you use it in your speeches. Like for me, I. I [00:27:00] know like you do, we use our study in our speech. It’s also the lead gen. So for us, all the people in the [00:27:05] audience, whether it’s a thousand or 5,000 or 50, what do they do? They take out their phone, they scan the QR codes, [00:27:10] and then they can get the study. But what’s really wild, it’s, and I never ever thought this would happen. [00:27:15] You would not believe how many people want the hard copy versions of it. Hmm. So the hard copy version [00:27:20] you have, like, we have so many clients and they will pay to get the versions so that everybody, in [00:27:25] fact a lot of ’em want it instead of the books or they’ll take it in addition to the books ’cause it feels very current and of the moment [00:27:30] and we could keep updating it. So we see that, um, we use it in our consulting process. So for [00:27:35] anybody who’s doing professional services, you can then say, Hey, I have a research backed process, which is [00:27:40] huge in all of that. Same for communities. I mean, the whole idea is. What are [00:27:45] the problems you’re trying to solve with the study? How can you turn that into the right thing to [00:27:50] educate and inform that audience? And it looks different for everybody. We do live webinars, we do prerecorded. [00:27:55] Our clients use this in so many different ways. I know my favorites is creating indexes [00:28:00] or creating now, then create their own quizzes. You know, that’s top lead gen for so many people right [00:28:05] now. And now you have one that’s research backed and once people get the vision and go, oh, I got it. [00:28:10] So I could take what I already do, you’ll come in and make this research backed, and then I could turn into all these [00:28:15] marketing tools and PR tools and communication tools. I just get to level up every single thing [00:28:20] I do. Rory: Talk about research backed real, real quick, and then we’ll, we’ll land the plane ’cause this. This has [00:28:25] been amazing, but I think. So you’ve really made a strong case [00:28:30] for the, the power of research, the reasons to do it, both for just getting [00:28:35] actual answers and insights, also for branding and positioning. Uh, and then also, [00:28:40] you know, for perception and like price increases. Why can’t I just do this myself with [00:28:45] SurveyMonkey? Like, why do I need, why do I need you? Why, why, what, [00:28:50] what makes something count as like real research versus like, why can’t I just email my [00:28:55] email list? Mm-hmm. And come up with some questions and, and ask them, can you talk about the [00:29:00] difference between, you know, a true academic methodology [00:29:05] and statistically valid sample sizes versus just like. People do this, right? They’ll put [00:29:10] something on their Instagram stories, they’ll ask a question, and then they’ll present it as like, [00:29:15] research. Why is that? Why does that not count as, as real [00:29:20] research? Jason: Yeah, that’s a great question. The, um, we actually, in our, um, proposals, [00:29:25] the, we have a whole page just on why you could do that and why it won’t actually deliver all the things that [00:29:30] you want. But basically. When you think about the difference between a [00:29:35] study and a survey, just in a traditional sentence, if I’m gonna survey my list, you’re not [00:29:40] getting anything representative except of your list, and except of the people who decided they like you [00:29:45] enough or you offered some free thing for them to complete it, it doesn’t actually represent. Anything [00:29:50] other than the people on your list who had nothing better to do at that moment? Same with Facebook. It’s whoever you [00:29:55] reached or any of these. So in our model, uh, generally our studies are a thousand people [00:30:00] and it’s always weighted to something. So usually, for example, it’s weighted to the US census for age, gender, [00:30:05] geography, and ethnicity. Um, and we have a thousand people. ’cause that gives us a margin there. Plus or minus [00:30:10] 3.1, uh, 19. Rory: What very a margin. Yeah. Jason: [00:30:15] 19 out 20 times, uh, 20 times, which is sort of the, what they call the 95th confidence interval. [00:30:20] All of that to say, uh, Rory: meaning that when you ask a thousand people at that level, [00:30:25] it’s like that’s going to be a statistically valid representative sample of the entire [00:30:30] nation. Jason: Mm-hmm. Rory: And that’s what makes it valid. It’s, it’s not just a thousand people took it, it’s [00:30:35] that the demographics of the thousand people who took it. Represent the [00:30:40] demographics, weighted and equivalent sort of to the nation, the national demographics. Jason: Yeah, [00:30:45] so we’re gonna match the US census, and so we’re gonna have all the different states represented and [00:30:50] genders and, and anything else. So like age, gender, geography, and ethnicity. That gives us a really low [00:30:55] margin error. This is very important because we always publish methodologies, so [00:31:00] that’s why all these media outlets wanna use it because they know, oh, this is [00:31:05] statistically accurate. Otherwise, you’re just doing a survey. If you wanna own a space, [00:31:10] you have to be statistically accurate. You want a very low margin of error because that [00:31:15] means it’s real and valid. And once you do that, then people will cite you. The media will cite you. [00:31:20] Academics will cite you. Business leaders will cite you. Boards of directors, investor groups. [00:31:25] All of these places will cite you because you have a statistically accurate national study. [00:31:30] That’s what I always tell people. You have to name your study and give it a credible name, not some cheeky name, because [00:31:35] you wanna be the source of truth. So own that space. Be the source of truth. ’cause your [00:31:40] data, your study is valid. It’s, it’s statistically rigorous [00:31:45] and that’s why so many big companies use us. That’s why all kinds of different groups partner with us, so many personal [00:31:50] brands is because. If you’re going to invest the time to do it, you want to do it right. So I think [00:31:55] for us, the big, at least what I hear from our clients, ’cause you know most of them are repeat or direct referrals. What I hear from [00:32:00] our clients is we do study design differently than anybody else because we do study design specifically [00:32:05] for thought leadership. Mm-hmm. That is what we do. Then we manage the process. So the thousand or 2000, [00:32:10] however many participants go through it and they’ll meet whatever the criteria are. Maybe they’re all people that have over a [00:32:15] million dollars. Maybe they all are business owners, maybe they’re all moms. Like we, you know, we do all [00:32:20] kinds of studies and then the analysis where we pull out the stories for them. [00:32:25] That’s like magic and they get so excited and the response at the app, Rory: right? Or even if I’m not like a numbers [00:32:30] person, I don’t really understand. Yeah, no, no. You’re, you’re doing that extrapolation for me. Jason: We do the whole thing Rory: and then I just [00:32:35] can go be the storyteller. Jason: You can present your study the same day. We teach you how to present it. We give you [00:32:40] our framework. We record presenting it as if we’re you. We give you everything you need so that you can take whatever your [00:32:45] strengths are and your passion. And immediately integrate the, the study and the discoveries so that you can [00:32:50] start telling the world. And you know, for us, we always believe you should create a research hub, which is something on your [00:32:55] website that everybody’s wanting goes back to, that’ll have your key findings and your perspective on it. And you know, white [00:33:00] papers, infographics, videos, those sorts of things. So you have this sort of center of truth that’s now a part [00:33:05] of what you do. And I, I just, again, if you own the data, you own the space. If you’re [00:33:10] constantly citing other people to make your point, you’re missing an opportunity to really step up to that next level.[00:33:15] Or as you said earlier, you know, one step below a celebrity. Rory: [00:33:20] Uh, well, there you have it again, free brand training.com/research if you’re interested in this. And [00:33:25] share this episode with someone you know, who is a personal brand or an entrepreneur who [00:33:30] is ready to go to that next level to like true authority, right? This is, this is, you know, this [00:33:35] idea of statistically valid, academically accurate and sound. Uh, this is [00:33:40] a, a level of legitimizing your expertise and your own confidence in what you’re teaching. [00:33:45] And that’s what this is really about. So. Make sure you, if you know someone like that who should be [00:33:50] doing this at that level and owning a conversation, share this episode with them. Uh, make sure you hit [00:33:55] subscribe, tell us your thoughts down below, and we’ll catch you next time on the Wealthy and Well-Known [00:34:00] [00:34:05] [00:34:10] podcast.