[00:00:00] I once introduced you in a room full of like colleagues and friends, as [00:00:05] one of the greatest salespeople, the greatest salesperson that I’ve ever met, which I still firmly [00:00:10] believe. I think you are the best salesperson. Well, let me just be clear. What he did not introduce me [00:00:15] as was his wife. She has to tell this part. The mother of his children, the [00:00:20] CEO of Brand Builders Group, just like I was some random person on the street, greatest salesperson I [00:00:25] ever met. I’m like, uh, how about your wife?[00:00:30] Hey, welcome back to the podcast. [00:00:35] Today we’re talking about something very important, how to generate more sales. In a very [00:00:40] tactical way, what do you need to do to sell more? What do [00:00:45] you need to know about why people don’t sell more? And, uh, what are [00:00:50] the, the, what’s the data you need to look at at your business? How do you drive leads? How do you convert those leads? [00:00:55] What are the mistakes that people are making related to those sales? And we’re gonna have a [00:01:00] dialogue back and forth about that. Many of the things that we agree on, [00:01:05] a few of the things that we see differently. And, um, you [00:01:10] know, uh, this is something that AJ and I have spent our entire career studying is just professional selling. [00:01:15] And if you’re a personal brand, this is something that you need to pay attention to. [00:01:20] Hi, babe. Welcome back. Welcome back. Um, I think [00:01:25] one of the things that we should start with is defining, or for some of you listening, [00:01:30] redefining sales. Hmm. I still think currently sales is a four letter word [00:01:35] for a lot of people. They think it’s sleazy or cheesy or [00:01:40] unprofessional, and that they’re above it. Mm-hmm. And I think redefining [00:01:45] sales in this setting, I think is really important. And I just firmly [00:01:50] believe we can talk about all the tactics, all the techniques, all the strategies. [00:01:55] And none of them will work if you do not have confidence in [00:02:00] conviction that this is a good thing. Yeah, right. Sales is a good [00:02:05] thing. It’s a necessary thing. It’s essential. And it’s not some formula, it’s a [00:02:10] conversation. It’s a. Important conversation that we all have to have. And if we [00:02:15] just back it up to talk about what is sales and remind [00:02:20] ourselves of how many, many sales we all make on a daily basis, I think it will [00:02:25] just help put some context to that. Sales is not a four [00:02:30] letter word, it’s not a bad thing, it’s not high pressure. It’s not the old, you know, used [00:02:35] car salesman. I always wonder where that analogy came from. Hmm. Like what, what used [00:02:40] car salesman did so bad that he has ruined entire [00:02:45] industry for everyone since? ’cause that is the one thing that people, I just don’t wanna be like the [00:02:50] used car salesman. I’m like, who was this used car salesman and what did he do? Like he [00:02:55] has ruined it for generations of used car salesman. Uh, but it doesn’t have to be that way. [00:03:00] No, for sure. And, um, by the way, Preston, can you grab a copy of our book? [00:03:05] Let’s put it there. Um, there should be one in the closet out [00:03:10] there. Yeah. Um,[00:03:15] [00:03:20] [00:03:25] [00:03:30] [00:03:35] right. Also, before y’all lean, I’m gonna show y’all [00:03:40] mockups at the studio. Oh, yes. I love that. Of, of our home studio. Mm-hmm. [00:03:45] Oh, I’m excited about that. Oh, yeah. But work on a little something, something before you left. So [00:03:50] something, yes. A little treat. All right. So to, to [00:03:55] pick up there, there’s a story in this book. I’m sorry, I wanna address that [00:04:00] because it’s gonna cut in. So there might be a moment of, of a [00:04:05] fun. Wow. There might be a moment of like.[00:04:10] You know what I mean? Just to acknowledge the book is now there. [00:04:15] Wasn’t there now. Okay. Got it. So that reminded me of a [00:04:20] story in our book. So I had to bring it in because of this. And this is a story that you [00:04:25] don’t love, but it’s a, it is a story of when I once introduced you. It’s a [00:04:30] story you don’t love. I have no problem with it. Well, uh, this is the [00:04:35] one part of our book that Rory tried to rewrite and edit out. And I was like, no, [00:04:40] this is what happened. Crazy person. It stays. So you have to read the book if [00:04:45] you want the whole story. But the, the, the, the part of the story that matters here is that I once [00:04:50] introduced you in a room full of like colleagues and friends as one of [00:04:55] the greatest salespeople, the greatest salesperson that I’ve ever met, which I still firmly believe. I [00:05:00] think you are the best salesperson. Well, let me just be clear. What he did not introduce me as [00:05:05] was his wife. She has to tell this part of the story. The mother of his children, the CEO of [00:05:10] Brand Builders group, just like I was some random person on the street, greatest salesperson I ever met. [00:05:15] I’m like, uh, how about your wife? I said that before you got over there. I’m [00:05:20] sure of it. There’s no way I didn’t say that. Um, separate of all of that and how [00:05:25] much of a jerk your husband can be at times, um, you are a [00:05:30] phenomenal salesperson. And I mean, from a, from a technical perspective to to, [00:05:35] to go on what you were saying about if someone believes that sales is bad or [00:05:40] wrong or manipulative, they’re not gonna do it. And if somebody [00:05:45] understands the power of it. What you can build is life changing. I mean, [00:05:50] you have changed our life with this ability to sell and for, for [00:05:55] those people that don’t know. ’cause I do think this is an important part of the story and it’s sometimes why I tell it is, yes, you [00:06:00] are the CEO of Brand Builders group and you run the company. You are the steward [00:06:05] of financially of, of our organization. Yes, you are a [00:06:10] speaker. Yes, you are an author. But I think in some ways, first and foremost, you are a [00:06:15] saleswoman. Yeah. Professionally. And that’s how we started our, before we even [00:06:20] mm-hmm. Were dating, when we were business partners, we were selling together. Mm-hmm. And I’m pretty [00:06:25] sure I had to sell you on all those dates way. No, that’s one [00:06:30] thing I closed you on. Uh uh, I have many examples of, it was the opposite, but [00:06:35] Okay. This is gonna be the most embarrassing episode of my life. Um, [00:06:40] so talk to me about what sales is not because I think what you opened with is really good.[00:06:45] And go, what do people think sales is? Mm-hmm. That [00:06:50] sales is not? And why do you think that? Yeah. I think that people [00:06:55] think sales is convincing someone to do something that they don’t want to [00:07:00] do. Mm. And I think that’s where you get the icky, yucky [00:07:05] feelings where it’s like, I was tricked. It was like, you know, the, [00:07:10] you know, s no, whatever. What does they say? The, the snake oil [00:07:15] salesman? Yeah. The snake oil salesman. Uh, again, what are those saying? Like, where’d that come from? Where is their snake oil? Yeah. [00:07:20] Where have I been missing all this? And, and he must have been, I mean, even though he is manipulating people, he must have done a really good job.[00:07:25] Yeah. ’cause a lot of people know about it. Where are all these things coming from? This is gonna be my evening homework assignment. Um, but I think that’s [00:07:30] really where it comes from. It’s like, oh, I was tricked, or I was [00:07:35] misled, or I was lied to, or I was oversold over promised, [00:07:40] um, taken advantage of, taken advantage of, manipulated. And I think that’s where it comes [00:07:45] from. And I think at the end of the day, that all comes from this, this feeling of I’m [00:07:50] being convinced to do something that I don’t wanna do. [00:07:55] But as a consumer, as a buyer, I didn’t have enough confidence just to say [00:08:00] no. Mm-hmm. And I got sold into something. And, you [00:08:05] know, it’s one of the things where I have to remind myself and our team, it’s like, we don’t [00:08:10] wanna oversell. And at the same time, if you don’t have enough confidence [00:08:15] and conviction in what you’re selling, then stop selling it. Mm. Like if you’re not gonna ask [00:08:20] someone to do it ’cause you don’t believe in it, then please leave. Go. Go find [00:08:25] something that you can be so convicted in that you can’t not talk about it. Mm-hmm. And if you’re not that, [00:08:30] whatever, then that’s when it feels salesy, because you don’t even have enough internal [00:08:35] confidence and conviction to go. Now you don’t understand. This can change your life. [00:08:40] And when you don’t have that, it comes out as. [00:08:45] Lying or, uh, false. That’s shallow false beliefs. Yeah. And [00:08:50] I think that’s where a lot of us are. It’s like, and it takes a lot of, uh, firsthand research [00:08:55] and experience to have that level of conviction. Uh, I personally love [00:09:00] it when I’m in a great sales presentation. Hmm. Like, I love it [00:09:05] when I’m like, when you’re a prospect being sold by a Right. Oh yeah. When I’m a consumer, uh, or [00:09:10] like, uh, recruiting is also sales. I think we, we think that sales is just [00:09:15] selling and buying a products and services. It’s not, uh, and I think [00:09:20] recruiting is one of the greatest sales of all time. Right. You did this, do this. [00:09:25] Um. It’s the same thing. It’s like when I have a candidate that I’m interviewing and [00:09:30] they’re like, can we just stop and let me tell you why I’m the best candidate on the planet for your company? I’m [00:09:35] like, yes, I would like to hear that. I wanna see how good you are at that. [00:09:40] Uh, I’ve been even in conversations before where I was in a termination conversation and [00:09:45] the employee being terminated was like, um, I don’t really [00:09:50] want to be fired. And I’m like, huh, what? And they’re like, can I tell [00:09:55] you why I don’t think you should fire me? I’m like, yeah, true story. You should. And I [00:10:00] literally got resold and rehired the person at the end of the call. I’m like [00:10:05] that. And I literally said to him, and I was like, if you can do what you just did to me [00:10:10] on all your calls, we’re gonna be just fine. Mm-hmm. Um, but that’s because it was like, no, I’m [00:10:15] convicted. I wanna be here. I want to do this. That’s when it doesn’t feel like [00:10:20] a sale is when you believe in it so much that you’re like, I have this story and this [00:10:25] story and I have this proof and I saw this happen and this happened and it’s not a [00:10:30] sale anymore. Mm-hmm. It’s a, it’s a transference of your own confidence and your own conviction [00:10:35] and your products and services. Uh, and what I tell people is like, a sale can’t happen until there’s a [00:10:40] transference of trust. Mm-hmm. And that happens when you’re real. And it can’t just be a [00:10:45] script. I think outlines are good. Frameworks are good. Scripts are no bueno [00:10:50] because it disallows your humanity. Mm-hmm. It disa allowss real [00:10:55] conversation. Now are they good for learning and practice? Absolutely. But at some point you have to put [00:11:00] it away and you have to go, I’m just having a real conversation with another human being about something I [00:11:05] believe in. Mm-hmm. It could be insurance, it could be a car, it could be a house, it could be [00:11:10] personal branding. You know, you can request a free call with us right now. Um, it could be whatever it [00:11:15] is. So on that note, genuinely. One of the things [00:11:20] that I, there’s many things I love about you professionally [00:11:25] speaking. One of the things that I’ve always loved is you and I have a very [00:11:30] similar sales style. Mm-hmm. And it’s everything that you’re talking about. And I [00:11:35] think where a lot of the distaste has come from for the profession of selling [00:11:40] is from sales trainers who teach selling. And they teach [00:11:45] it as how to manipulate someone, how to convert a no into a yes. How to [00:11:50] pressure someone. It’s like sell or be sold it. You know, always be they’re selling you or you’re [00:11:55] selling them always. Because if you’re not first, you’re last. And it’s like, you know, you keep asking until they say [00:12:00] yes and like put your head down until they let you in the house. Like, yeah. There’s so much [00:12:05] of that energy. Uhhuh pressure’s. Pressure. Pressure. And you [00:12:10] know, you and I are some of the. Best salespeople [00:12:15] probably in, in the profession today. And we figured out [00:12:20] you could do this by serving people and putting their interest first, um, [00:12:25] but not being so soft that you’re not convicted and you don’t tell ’em what you believe. And so we created this [00:12:30] service centered selling methodology, which is what we teach at Brand Builders Group. So if you’ve ever [00:12:35] had a, a bad taste in your mouth about sales or had a horrible experience from a [00:12:40] salesperson and that’s turned you off for like, I don’t ever wanna be that. I really wanna encourage you to listen to this [00:12:45] whole episode and see if you don’t get a different vibe. And this is part of why we started Brand Builders Group, was [00:12:50] to go, we wanna teach the world a different way to do this a, a [00:12:55] better way to do this. And ironically. You can close more [00:13:00] sales with less pressure. You can close more sales by being less [00:13:05] self interested and more service centered. Yeah. But it’s a really, like, what does that mean? [00:13:10] Right. And I think at the end of the day, what most people do is they’re, [00:13:15] they’re too nervous, they’re too under underconfident, they’re too self-conscious, or they just don’t have [00:13:20] the wherewithal to know that a sale is made when you ask questions, [00:13:25] not when you share information. Yeah. So define how would you define selling then? If it’s, [00:13:30] if it’s not all those things, it’s not manipulative. It’s very, very simple. Selling is [00:13:35] a progression of questions. The end from the very first [00:13:40] question to the very last question. The very first question is, you know, like our team asked is like, so how did you hear [00:13:45] about brand Builders Group? That’s the beginning of the sale. The last is, what’s your credit [00:13:50] card like? It’s, it’s a, it’s a progression of questions, [00:13:55] and I think we forget somewhere in the middle. It’s like, at the end of the day, our [00:14:00] prospects, right? If they were willing, and I’m speaking about Brand Builders group [00:14:05] specifically, and I shared this with our team earlier this week. Ironically, I’m like, I just want you to think about for a [00:14:10] second, all the hoops, and so I want you to think about as you’re listening, how does this apply to you and your [00:14:15] business? But for us, I want you to listen to all the hoops that a prospective [00:14:20] client has to go through to actually become a client. I want you listen to [00:14:25] this. They have to listen to a podcast or watch a piece of content or hear about us from a [00:14:30] friend, right? So they have already invested minutes or hours or years in [00:14:35] some cases, of learning from us, hearing from us, watching us, hearing their friend talk [00:14:40] about us, whatever it is. So they’ve already invested some amount of time into investigation, or in some cases they’ve read the book, [00:14:45] they’ve listened to the book. There’s already a time investment there. Then they had to have enough [00:14:50] interest to request a call with us. They had to fill out a micro form, [00:14:55] then they had to fill out an application. Mm-hmm. Okay. That takes five to seven minutes. [00:15:00] Then they had to go through all of that, give us their personal information, share their dreams, share their income [00:15:05] levels, all the things that we ask for to make sure that we’re selling the right thing to the right person in the right [00:15:10] season of life. Then if they have to go to a calendar and make time on their calendar [00:15:15] and give it to us, they have to sign up for that call. Then they have to show up for that call. These free [00:15:20] calls that we do, they are freed strategy calls. Then they have to go through an hour of more [00:15:25] talking and listening and learning. Then they have to be willing to give us their [00:15:30] financial information to sign up for this. Then they have to read our agreement, agree to all of it, [00:15:35] sign it, pause right there. That’s a lot. It’s a lot. [00:15:40] So I just like, so, and I, I was sharing this with our team earlier. I’m like, don’t you [00:15:45] tell me in week one or in month one, they’re not interested anymore. Mm. [00:15:50] That’s a bunch of balo. No, we need to [00:15:55] resell their interest. No, they lost interest. That’s our problem to own. That’s [00:16:00] not theirs. They already went through all the hoops they already filled out in the information. They already shared what they wanted [00:16:05] to do. Now we must deliver. Right? Nobody loses interest after two weeks after all [00:16:10] that they just went through. That’s a lot of hoops. Now, can life events change and uh, [00:16:15] circumstances change? Sure. But this whole idea of oh, they got cold feet [00:16:20] after all that. Here’s what happens. When I think people get cold feet, [00:16:25] that is always a sign to me that somebody just got oversold. Cold [00:16:30] feet means they got oversold. It almost was like, it can’t be that good, [00:16:35] can it? And I think that happens. Most often when [00:16:40] we’re doing too much talking and that we’re not doing enough asking. So, back [00:16:45] to this concept of sales is just a progression of questions. It is [00:16:50] a true, genuine desire of curiosity. Like I really [00:16:55] actually wanna know, why did you request a call with us today? What are you doing in your personal [00:17:00] brand? How are you trying to use this to grow your business? Like, what, what do you want to do? What are [00:17:05] your dreams? What’s not working? Why isn’t that working? Uh, what have you tried [00:17:10] before? Like, those are genuine questions to go. It’s not [00:17:15] How can I sell you? It’s are we a fit for you? Amen. [00:17:20] And I think that’s the difference of someone who’s like, I know I, I, I really [00:17:25] need to know that you’re the right fit because I’m about to lay it on you and lay it on [00:17:30] you means. I love that we’ve gotten to know you today. We are not a fit for [00:17:35] you. And a great salesperson is not trying to make a commission. A [00:17:40] great salesperson is not trying to make a sale, they’re trying to make a relationship. Mm. And I think that’s [00:17:45] important, and I have no problem at all any day of going. I don’t think we can help [00:17:50] you right now. I don’t think you have the time nor the funds to give this the investment [00:17:55] it requires. However, I believe that you could be a fit for us one day. So I’m gonna send you off [00:18:00] with free resources. I have no problem. I’m not afraid of where the next sale is gonna come [00:18:05] from. I have, I have a hundred percent confidence I can go find another person who [00:18:10] is the right fit. And that makes it easy for me to hold everything loosely and [00:18:15] not have a scarcity mentality, which makes it a low pressure environment. I have a [00:18:20] question of like, I, I don’t know if this is a good fit for you, uh, or. [00:18:25] I will find out if it is. And when it is, I’ll be like, I’m gonna tell you right now, I know exactly [00:18:30] who we’re looking to work with and it’s you. I know exactly what we can do for someone like you. [00:18:35] This program is built for you. I’m gonna tell you why, based on all the information you just learned, and at the [00:18:40] end, I’m gonna help you get signed up. Mm-hmm. And that’s the difference of, no, I know [00:18:45] it’s the right fit for you versus, I don’t know, I hope it’s the right fit for you. So I’m gonna go through the script [00:18:50] I have and fingers crossed. Yeah. I think the, you know, to the thing about what’s the [00:18:55] definition of selling and asking the questions, I would, I would. I would submit that you go, [00:19:00] we’re asking those questions to help someone figure out if this is the right fit for [00:19:05] them. It’s not about me getting a sale. It’s not me, the salesperson versus you, [00:19:10] the prospect. It’s me with you versus your fears, your [00:19:15] worries, your excuses, your procrastination, or just you not being the right fit [00:19:20] for what we do, which is also okay. And we have to discover those questions. And I think [00:19:25] when you’re asking these questions, one of the things that I’ve become convicted in, like you said, [00:19:30] maybe some people don’t have the time, they don’t have the money For sure. What I’ve really [00:19:35] become convicted in is for a program like ours. Somebody has to flat out [00:19:40] have the desire and the passion to fight for their dream. Amen. They have to say, I’m [00:19:45] gonna change the fricking world. Like I am here on a mission. I am a mission-driven messenger. I will [00:19:50] make the time. I make the time, find the money, the, and it. And, and when we ask questions about, [00:19:55] tell me about your dreams, or why is this important to you? Or how would that make you feel? [00:20:00] If they don’t have a strong enough desire to do the thing that we help people [00:20:05] do, they’re gonna die on the road. Yeah. Which is what happens to most people. Mm-hmm. Is like they don’t have what it [00:20:10] takes because they don’t have the desire and we go. If that’s you, I wanna find out [00:20:15] in the initial, initial conversation early on, early on, like, I don’t wanna waste your time or my time. You signing up for [00:20:20] something that you think is like, oh, they’re just gonna do this for me. No. Mm-hmm. We’re gonna show you [00:20:25] the way that has been proven again and again and again. But it’s a difficult road. It’s a hard [00:20:30] journey and you have to prove to me that you want it and, and not to me. You have to prove to [00:20:35] yourself. Yeah. That you want it. You have to articulate out loud why this [00:20:40] transformation is important to you. Because when you start on the journey, it is gonna [00:20:45] get hard. You are gonna get busy. You are gonna face rejection, there are gonna be excuses, there is [00:20:50] competition, there is economic challenges, and you have to make a decision. I’m gonna rise above all that. And [00:20:55] if, if that doesn’t come out in the sales conversation, yeah, they never articulate it. The moment [00:21:00] they hit that first barrier, they’re like, you know what? I’m out. I can’t do this program. And it’s it, it might be [00:21:05] because we oversold them. But it also might be because we didn’t ask the right questions for them to [00:21:10] truly sell themselves on the power of this journey and why it matters. [00:21:15] Yeah, and I think that happens outside of just what we do here at Brand Builders Group, like I just see it [00:21:20] all the time, is we ask really surface level questions. We get really surface [00:21:25] level answers and then we’re like, okay, I asked my five questions, now I’m gonna move into my presentation. [00:21:30] Mm-hmm. And that’s not what we’re talking about. It’s, you have to have enough [00:21:35] wherewithal to go, I don’t feel like they’ve gotten it. [00:21:40] And I think that’s where there just has to be a natural sense of curiosity. Like we cannot [00:21:45] anyone, doesn’t matter what sales training companies give you, every single probing question, every [00:21:50] ne next best question on the planet. That’s where you just have to have a genuine curiosity of, [00:21:55] do I think what I offer can serve this person? Mm-hmm. And no one knows that [00:22:00] better than you. And that’s how you have to figure out how to ask the right questions. And sometimes, [00:22:05] yeah, you need coaches, you need outside support to help do that, but at the end of the day, no one’s [00:22:10] gonna be able to sell your products and services as good as you. So you’ve gotta have enough [00:22:15] confidence and conviction that you can deliver. And I think sometimes the sales don’t [00:22:20] happen when we’re lacking our own conviction and our own confidence in what we do. [00:22:25] Totally, totally. Yeah. I, I, I, I think of [00:22:30] this like, when people think of sales, you know, they think of the like, used car salesman, but I, when I think of [00:22:35] sales, I think of like a doctor. Mm-hmm. Like when someone sits down with me, I have the [00:22:40] same level of experience and knowledge and education in the [00:22:45] professions of marketing and sales as a doctor, as a surgeon does. And I view [00:22:50] my profession in this way. And so when somebody is sitting with me, [00:22:55] I’m not telling them what to do. I’m listening to what they need, and I’m gonna, [00:23:00] I’m gonna prescribe a solution for them. Yep. And that solution might be. Our [00:23:05] self-study virtual program. It might be our one-on-one, you know, our flagship one-on-one program. It might be a [00:23:10] private two-day experience, it might be free resources. It might [00:23:15] be, we’re not the right fit for you at all. I think you should go check this out. But when you go talk to a [00:23:20] doctor, they hook you up. They take tests, they do diagnostics, they take [00:23:25] readings, and then they interpret the data that you give to them and they make a [00:23:30] prescription back to you. Yeah. That’s what I think a great, a truly great [00:23:35] professional, uh, seller does, and they have to be. [00:23:40] An expert both on the, the profession of selling and the, the sort of [00:23:45] conversational tactics. I guess I’ll, I’ll call them. But then they also have to have the, the [00:23:50] conviction in what they’re doing to go like, you need surgery, you need a different diet plan, [00:23:55] you just need to exercise, you need, you need to read this book. Mm-hmm. Like, there’s a different [00:24:00] prescription. And honestly, that’s why I always tell people that sales is the last thing that the [00:24:05] founder should outsource. Totally. It’s like, it’s the last thing. And ironically, it’s [00:24:10] the first thing that a lot of business people, entrepreneurs, uh, they wanna outsource, try to [00:24:15] outsource. And it’s like, why would you do that? Like, no one is going to have [00:24:20] that first level ex experience, context, expertise, case [00:24:25] studies, history. Ion, yeah. Like, yes, [00:24:30] like you outsource everything else, but you keep sales until the very, very end. Until you have [00:24:35] somebody else who has been there long enough, who’s groomed up long enough, who has their own stories, who has [00:24:40] their own experience with the products and services. And that right there is exactly why I tell people all the [00:24:45] time, no sales is the last thing that you hire for. It’s the last thing that you [00:24:50] outsource. Because at the end of the day, so much of selling is just social proof [00:24:55] of like, I’ve done it for someone else. Here’s the ex, here’s the, uh, results they got, they [00:25:00] experienced, uh, I’m pretty sure if it worked for this person, this person, this person, this person and this person, [00:25:05] I can make it work for you. Right. And a lot of that just comes from that firsthand awareness. [00:25:10] And it’s really hard for a brand new hire to have that where it not [00:25:15] feel a little scripted. A little borrowed. Yeah. And at some point you’re gonna have to do that and that’s fine. [00:25:20] Uh, but that’s again, it’s the last thing, not the first thing you do. I think the energy [00:25:25] here. Is if you see an amazing [00:25:30] movie, you go tell all your friends, you gotta see this movie. Like, uh, for [00:25:35] me, what was that movie? The Greatest Showman? Mm. Right. When I saw that movie, I was, I was telling everybody, [00:25:40] I’m like, you have to see this movie. Like the story, the message, the [00:25:45] music, the dancing, the acting, like you have to go see this. I [00:25:50] didn’t get paid a commission for that. It’s the same thing when you go to an amazing restaurant and you’re like, oh [00:25:55] my gosh, every single bite like melted the most delicious [00:26:00] thing. Or you see a play or you go to a city or you, you, [00:26:05] you, when you have that kind of experience, you’re passionate to tell [00:26:10] people. Too many entrepreneurs and personal brands are more [00:26:15] passionate about. A movie they saw than their own product. Mm. It’s like, I, I’ll tell you about this [00:26:20] amazing movie, but like, I won’t tell you about this thing. I’ve spent my life building. And I think that’s [00:26:25] kind of the energy that we need to, we need to marry up to go. Like, [00:26:30] to your point about being convicted in your own transformation Yeah. That you can, that you can help [00:26:35] provide. ’cause if you’re not, why are you selling in the first place? Well, and I think that’s a lot of, at [00:26:40] least what I see today, and you know, we’ve been in the professional business of [00:26:45] selling for 20 years. Our company prior to this was a professional sales coaching and training business. [00:26:50] So, uh, this is where I got started in business. You started in college. Um, but one [00:26:55] of the things that I see more frequently today than ever before is, uh, people tell me, it’s like [00:27:00] I’m, I’m doing all the things. It’s just not working. And I’m like, what are these [00:27:05] things that you’re doing? Can you just walk me through? I need to know exactly. And they’re like, well, I’ve sent [00:27:10] all these emails and I’m like. Okay. You’ve [00:27:15] sent emails. Okay. I’m posting on social media. I built a website and I’m [00:27:20] like, I just wanna be very clear. None of that is selling, that is [00:27:25] marketing, that is not selling. And they’re, they look at me like, what are you talking about? I’m like, [00:27:30] you need to talk to someone. Like what conversations have you [00:27:35] had and how many have you had? Send me a recording. I’ll audit it. [00:27:40] And they’re like, well, I haven’t done that. I’m like, then you have not been selling. [00:27:45] I don’t know what you think you’re doing. That’s why you have no revenue. That’s why you have no sales. [00:27:50] You cannot have sales without selling. And it, it, there’s like [00:27:55] this disconnect between marketing and selling. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, well, you know, I [00:28:00] got this email template. I customized it and I sent it to everyone I know. I’m [00:28:05] like, when you said you have a template and you customized it, what does that mean?[00:28:10] It’s like, and I think that’s something too that I think people forget. It’s like, how many [00:28:15] emails do you get? Right? Like, do you want some sort of generic [00:28:20] e Like, are you gonna respond to some generic half personalized, high half [00:28:25] customized email asking for a referral? No. I, no offense, I’m going to delete that.[00:28:30] I, I, I do not have time for this Now, if it was genuinely personalized and [00:28:35] more importantly, if it was a phone call, if it was a meeting, if it was a coffee, and you have my time and [00:28:40] attention, I just don’t have time. Like, I get hundreds of emails every single [00:28:45] day. What is different about yours That I’m gonna sit there and go, you know what? This person that I [00:28:50] kind of know that’s asking me to do something that I’m not even really sure what they’re asking for, that I can definitely [00:28:55] tell is general and templated. I just don’t have time for this. If they don’t have the [00:29:00] time to pick up the phone call and have a conversation with me, I do not have a time for your email. Hmm. And I, and that, I [00:29:05] say that to good friends. It’s like, you wanna go on a walk, you wanna have coffee? Let me know. [00:29:10] Until then, I don’t even know what you’re asking me to do and I’m definitely not gonna try to figure it out for you. So [00:29:15] like that’s not how it works. So I would just encourage you too, if you’re asking yourself like, [00:29:20] why aren’t my sales growing? It’s like how many conversations, conversations are you [00:29:25] having? Not emails not, definitely not social media posts. Not even [00:29:30] dms. Now, can you sell in your dms? Can you sell an email? I’m not saying no to that. Yes, but [00:29:35] that is marketing. That is not actual relationship building. You [00:29:40] wanna get real sales then talk to real people. And I think that’s partly step one is [00:29:45] people are going, do people still do that? Yes. People still do [00:29:50] that. They get on Zoom, they have copy, they have phone calls. Yes, we still do that. [00:29:55] Um, and then I think the other thing is like knowing what to say. I think people [00:30:00] really struggle with, okay, you’re talking about questions. Tell me what they are. Like, [00:30:05] how do I ask for the business? And I, I think it’s a really interesting thing. ’cause [00:30:10] a lot of people really, they’re just like, I’ll do it, but I don’t know what to say. What questions do I [00:30:15] ask? And at the very end, like, what do I ask them to do? So I think it would be [00:30:20] worthwhile if we actually got into some of the tactics of that. Yeah. I mean, totally. So, so [00:30:25] obviously we have very specific tactics and things of, of what to [00:30:30] say and walk people through the presentation, but I think the, [00:30:35] what, what somebody, the thing to underscore, which you’ve said several times is [00:30:40] it’s questions. It’s selling is not about being a smooth talker, [00:30:45] being great at sales is about being a master question asker. [00:30:50] It’s about being a master listener and knowing what questions you have [00:30:55] to ask in order to get someone to buy. And I think we can go into whatever tactics you [00:31:00] want to, to discuss, but I think from a, from a high level. [00:31:05] There is a cost to buying anything, right? So there is a cost of [00:31:10] time and money and energy to buy something when you’re selling. We have [00:31:15] to ask the, whatever questions are [00:31:20] necessary to help someone understand that the thing that they’re going to get [00:31:25] is worth more than the cost that is going to be asked of them. Mm-hmm. [00:31:30] Also, similarly, the thing that we’re going to help them prevent [00:31:35] is going to be worth more than the cost of the thing that we are asking them [00:31:40] for. And at a high level, that’s all selling is. [00:31:45] And to go, what questions do I need to ask someone to where [00:31:50] their own answers articulate for themselves [00:31:55] why the thing they’re gonna get from us is worth more than what they’re [00:32:00] gonna pay us to get it. Mm-hmm. Or. Asking questions that help them articulate for [00:32:05] themselves why the thing they’re gonna get from us is, is going to save them [00:32:10] more headaches and pain than what they’re gonna have to pay us to, to, to [00:32:15] save that pain. Mm-hmm. And if you understand that, then you understand [00:32:20] selling. Yeah. If you don’t understand that, I don’t care what scripture you’re using, what [00:32:25] questions, what magical talk tracks you think you have, like it, it’s not [00:32:30] gonna work. Mm-hmm. All of the tactics are based in, it’s, it’s a [00:32:35] teeter-totter, right? Mm-hmm. It’s like, which is what is more valuable, what I’m gonna get [00:32:40] or what do I have to pay? And so the tactics all I think stem around that. [00:32:45] Yeah. You know, it’s interesting as, uh, to that the best, like, and I [00:32:50] said earlier, like, I love being the prospect. I love being the consumer when it’s a great [00:32:55] sales presentation, but the best sales presentation. [00:33:00] That the best, best presentations that ever happen, I’ve already made my decision to buy [00:33:05] before they ever started presenting. Totally. Right. And it’s like we live in a world where I’m [00:33:10] not learning about you for the first time on this phone call. Like that’s not actually [00:33:15] what’s happening. Right. If I have come to you, it’s ’cause I’ve been doing research. Mm-hmm. I heard about you from a trusted [00:33:20] resource. I’ve already done a little bit of my investigation and I think sometimes, and that’s [00:33:25] marketing. Marketing is all that pre-work. Yeah. The pre fluence. Yeah. Um, but it’s like [00:33:30] I’ve already established I have a problem or a desire and I need support. I need help.[00:33:35] And if I’m on the phone with you, if I’m willing to give you my time, that means I’m already semi [00:33:40] sold. I just need to verify that you are who you are, say you are, you do what I think you [00:33:45] do and I can afford it. And I think that we miss that too. And we get into these [00:33:50] sales conversations as if they don’t know anything about us. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, I think that’s [00:33:55] a rarity. I think most people are not getting on your calendar today if they [00:34:00] don’t know a little bit about you because it’s so easy too. Totally. And they’re not. They’re [00:34:05] not buying because they know about you. They’re buying because they have a problem and they think you [00:34:10] can help them. And all that matters is can you help them or not? Like they don’t need to know your company history. They don’t need to know how many [00:34:15] employees you have. They don’t care how many customers you have. They only care about one thing. Can you solve this [00:34:20] problem for me? And if you can. I can afford it, then we got a [00:34:25] deal. But I think that’s a lot of people, they, they skip through that and they’re asking questions that [00:34:30] don’t matter. Yes. They’re talking about things that don’t matter. Um, they think [00:34:35] rapport building is talking about don’t matter how. We both grew up with horses on farms and [00:34:40] we, you know, it’s like, uh, I’m so glad you said this. This is like the [00:34:45] dumbest thing. It’s like, Hey, let’s talk about the weather and build rapport as if like talking about the weather [00:34:50] is gonna, has anything to do with what we’re doing. Yeah. Like, does that really create trust of like, no, hey, we, we both [00:34:55] like the Tennessee Titans, you should buy from me. Like, like give me all your personal [00:35:00] information. We like the same team. Yeah. I, but that happens a lot. Like, I think people really confuse [00:35:05] what is rapport building? Uh, rapport building is where you’re actually establishing [00:35:10] trust. Yes. And trust happens When you’re talking about problems that [00:35:15] you have that I can solve, we’re talking about real needs, not surface [00:35:20] level. Where’d you grow up? You know, I don’t know where that accent came from, but I like it. Like [00:35:25] where, love that southern accent. I love when it comes out. Like that’s the best, but that’s, let’s talk [00:35:30] about rapport building. It’s not, it’s not like, and I even mentioned this earlier, [00:35:35] like one of the first questions you asked is, how did you hear about us? That has a specific intention [00:35:40] behind it. What I really wanna know is, uh, what ch what lead channel, right? So if you [00:35:45] said, Hey, I heard about you on a podcast. Yeah. What podcast? Now I actually already know that [00:35:50] because you already put it on your application. Right? We already tracked it in our market. I already know that. So why would I bring it up? [00:35:55] Right? And it’s because I am leading them into a conversation where I already [00:36:00] know where it’s going. Right? I already know they heard us about, you know, this podcast from this [00:36:05] person. But what I really wanna know is, well, how long have you been following that person? Right? [00:36:10] I’m asking because I’m trying to figure out what level of trust existed. With what [00:36:15] you just heard and learned about us. And if they go, you know what? I’ve never listened to that podcast before. It was just this [00:36:20] random episode. Well then I know like there’s not a lot of weight there, right? But if [00:36:25] they’re going, oh man, I’ve been listening to that podcast for 10 years. I do everything they [00:36:30] recommend, then I know it’s like, oh, there’s a high level of trust there. And I wanna know, well what, what [00:36:35] was it about this particular episode that stuck out to you? Hmm. Right? So it’s like I’m [00:36:40] establishing like, what was the trigger point? What was said that that made you go, [00:36:45] huh, I’m gonna track down that link, fill out that application and get a call on [00:36:50] those, those people’s account. That’s also a relationship you have in common, which I think is really, really, [00:36:55] that’s rapport building, is trust building is relationships in both that versus Oh, that’s so cool. I love that [00:37:00] podcast too. Check mark, question, ask, moving on. It’s like, why are you asking the question? [00:37:05] If you don’t know why you’re asking the question, then don’t ask it. And I think the real [00:37:10] rapport is, like you said, it’s digging into. What is their dream? [00:37:15] What is their vision? What is the thing they want in their life [00:37:20] compared to where they’re at right now? Mm-hmm. We call that the gap in our, in our curriculum, we just call [00:37:25] that the gap. It’s like, that’s the sale. It’s what do they want versus [00:37:30] where are they now? If there’s a gap that you, that they have articulated, [00:37:35] there’s an opportunity for a sale. Yep. If you don’t ar, if they don’t, if you don’t get them to [00:37:40] articulate that gap, there is no chance of the sale. But it’s like, it’s not, ’cause I’m asking you about the weather, it’s [00:37:45] because you’re telling me about your hopes, your dreams, your passions, the things you care about, and your telling [00:37:50] me about your struggles and the pain and the problems, which is how you do [00:37:55] real life with people. Like surface level conversations are things you do with [00:38:00] strangers. Oh, where are you from? What do you do for a living? When you have conversations with family, [00:38:05] it’s like, what’s going on in your life? Like, what are you struggling with? Like, what’s breaking your heart? What’s, [00:38:10] why is your day so hard? That’s where real relationship [00:38:15] happens is in the meaningful conversations about our dreams and ambitions and our [00:38:20] pain and our problems. And if they’re, this is one of the things that we say all the time, right? [00:38:25] You are selling when they are talking. Yep. Specifically when they are [00:38:30] talking about their hopes and dreams and their pains and their problems. That [00:38:35] is how and when real relationship, I feel like is, is being [00:38:40] built. Yeah, totally. And I think one of the things I would just, uh, add to that is [00:38:45] now I’ve been doing sales for a long time, you know, spent the first 13 years [00:38:50] auditing sales team, sales companies. And one of the things that I see all the [00:38:55] time is, uh, distracted. Listening, and it’s like we’re going through [00:39:00] the motions of ask the question, get the answer, ask the next thing. Mm-hmm. And one of the, you mean on the behalf of the [00:39:05] salesperson? On the behalf of the salesperson. Yeah. And like, one of the things that I just wanted to really strongly comment [00:39:10] on to this gap, if you’re not actively listening, you never hear the gap. [00:39:15] Totally. You miss the gap, right? This whole idea of like, Hey, I’m, I’m doing the sales call and checking [00:39:20] emails or trying to respond to dms. I’m like, this person, I just, for [00:39:25] context, I just, I wanna rewind. It’s like this person is actually telling you their life’s dreams, [00:39:30] which they have maybe never articulated to another human being before. They’re also telling you that [00:39:35] these dreams are not happening at the speed or the rate or at the velocity, like [00:39:40] whatever it is that they want. Um, they’re struggling. They’re sitting here telling you, [00:39:45] I have this dream and I don’t know what to do. And you’re there [00:39:50] multitasking, making copy, checking emails.