0:02 If you follow the Brand Builders Group methodology, either as a client or just someone who benefits from our free content, you know that our entire strategy that took us from zero to 8 figures is giveaway content for free. 0:18 Teach everything you know for free and bite sized chunks and small, you know, all random miscellaneous order and then invite people to request free calls with you and then offer those people a chance to enroll. 0:29 And that’s how we have become an Inc 5000 company. 0:33 Two years in a row, zero to 8 figures in five years worked with all these amazing celebrity clients. 0:37 Well, a big part of that conversation is what do you say on those free calls? 0:43 So if you do all that right and you drive the free calls, there is an art form to how to manage those free calls, what to say on them, what not to say, how to follow up with those people. 0:53 And the man that you’re about to learn from is somebody who has helped us tremendously in that area. 0:59 He’s actually helped us grow our conversion percentage between 10 to 15% consistently in that one metric ever since we started working together. 1:09 So originally he was a Brand Builders group client and then he became somebody that we recognize. 1:14 His expertise is specifically in the area of sales in human performance. 1:18 And we hired him and you’re about to meet him and we’re going to talk about some of the things that we did together that he helped us implement that moved our conversion percentage in a very, very positive direction in very, very short order. 1:33 So his name is Ryan Lang. 1:35 The company he is a part of, it’s called Empire Partners. 1:38 He’s the Co founder of that company. 1:39 He has coached lots of people in the area of sales and humor performance. 1:45 So in addition to working with me and AJ and our team at Brand Builders Group, he’s worked with Russ Ruffino, he’s worked with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the New York Yankees, Conoco Phillips. 1:56 He has been involved in corporate like divestitures of hundreds of millions of dollars. 2:01 He also has certifications from digital marketer, the Transformational Coaching Academy, and is just one of my favorite guys who actually talks sales and understands the right way to sell and the right way to service people. 2:14 Ryan Lang, welcome to the show, brother. 2:17 Oh, man, thank you. 2:18 I’m so excited to be here. 2:19 Listen, after that introduction, you set your expectations right above low and I’ll try to rise up to meet them. 2:27 Well, man, it, it’s been great working with you, in fact. 2:31 And it’s, it’s funny because you know, you know this and, and maybe people who are watching know, but like AJ and I, the first company we built was a sales training company. 2:42 And we have very specific philosophies about how to sell. 2:45 And, and people were hiring us to teach them how to close and teach their teams how to sell and get referrals. 2:52 And then we built brand Builders group. 2:54 Brand Builders group in many ways is more of a marketing organization. 2:58 We drive all warm leads. 3:01 And so we went from a world where all we did was train our team to make cold calls and outbound sales to driving inbound where our sales team is pretty much does exclusively free calls with people who already are at least somewhat aware of us. 3:17 And then we got sloppy with our own sales training and and sales conversion. 3:21 And we hired you and you moved the needle for us. 3:24 And our team loves you. 3:27 And yeah, so we’re just, so we’re so grateful to have you. 3:30 And I think I’d really love to hone in on how to have free calls, what to do on free calls and, and all the things around the free call to convert it to a customer because and this is we’re, we’re only teaching people to do what we’ve done and, and we’re only doing things that work. 3:52 So tell us first a little bit about how did you get started doing sales training specifically for like thought leaders and coaches and consultants? 4:01 Because that’s, that’s one area that you have a real depth, deep expertise. 4:05 It’s not just sales training, but like sales consulting for personal brand specifically. 4:10 Yeah. 4:11 So I, you know, I, I have a very deep background in sales and, and really I think I got my first job selling something when I was like 15 years old. 4:20 Like you, you know, very, very, very deep background in sales. 4:23 And I’ve sold all kinds of things from things that are very cheap to literally things, you know, that are we’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars. 4:31 And when I transitioned, I, I had AI was, you know, Co founder and, and, and part of a, an 8 figure business in the energy energy industry and walked away from that partnership after many years. 4:44 And after I walked away and I, I decided to get into the coaching space, I realized very quickly that I wanted to learn how to do this over the Internet. 4:54 This is around 2015. 4:55 So we’re, there was still a lot of things in terms of selling online and, and you know, funnels and all of that stuff that we’re still newish at that time. 5:05 And I knew that I had to kind of figure that out. 5:08 Well, I got my **** kicked as a coach for the first two years and I finally went out and hired somebody to help me with both. 5:18 I thought it was just my marketing. 5:19 I wasn’t even thinking about sales. 5:21 Once I would get somebody in person, most of the time I could figure it out, I could close the deal, but I didn’t understand how to market. 5:28 And I, I hired a group to help me do my marketing and in that as part of it was a sales training. 5:35 And the interesting thing was Rory, that I, I literally did everything that they said and completely ignored the sales training. 5:45 Like 100%. 5:46 I was like, just give me this funnel stuff. 5:48 Just give me that. 5:50 You get somebody on my phone, I’ll close the deal. 5:53 And but I, you know, I had what I, you know, what I’ve kind of determined is sometimes the kiss of death in sales is that the first high ticket sales call that I got for my coaching business, I closed. 6:06 And so now I think I’m Johnny closer here, you know, and I’m like, I knew it, you know, just get me the leads and I’m going to crush this. 6:15 And I went over for like, I don’t like 3-4 months and I’m spending money on ads and I’ve got leads coming in the door and I’m not closing anything. 6:25 And eventually I got to a point where my financial situation got so bad that I had to, you know, I had to kind of slow things down. 6:34 And so when I did that, I, I went back to doing some consulting and oil and gas and kind of decided for myself at that point that I was going to not just master sales, that I was going to put away everything I knew and figure out how to master this type of sales specifically. 6:52 And so I, I went to work with the training that I had at that time. 6:56 I did some work and then eventually I, I helped a couple of friends with, with their sales. 7:03 I knew a lot of coaches and several of whom were, you know, very successful. 7:08 We’re struggling with their sales teams. 7:09 And I ended up being able to come in the door and close at, you know, 4050%, which is kind of unheard of. 7:16 And some of the types of sales that we think and talk about. 7:19 And eventually I, you know, ended up working for clients on demand and Rustrofino and my, my mentor in this type of sale, Mark von Muser, you know, I, I basically just said, look, I’m going to empty my cup. 7:34 Rather you fill it up and I will eat, sleep and breathe this every day. 7:40 And I did that for like a year and a half was the only thing. 7:43 I mean, I literally shut off all content. 7:45 I didn’t listen to anything. 7:46 I didn’t read anything. 7:47 I just ate, slept and breathe this all day long. 7:50 And that was kind of the beginning of what eventually became coaching people on sales. 7:56 And so these organizations, so like you mentioned, Russ Rufina, right? 7:59 Like these, these organizations in this model of driving free calls and selling a high dollar offers. 8:08 Yep. 8:09 Would you say that that model works in terms of growing companies that are really significant in terms of their revenue? 8:17 No question, no question it is. 8:25 There are a lot of people that believe that a lot of things have to happen before somebody lands on a sales call and, or discovery call and, and you then sell them into, you know, a high ticket offer. 8:37 And for those that don’t, you know, that aren’t familiar with the terminology, we’re probably talking about anything north of, you know, $3000 or something like that. 8:47 And not only does it, not only do I believe it’s effective, but I’ve watched it work and I’ve worked it through multiple organizations. 8:56 And my partner, Brooke, exactly the same with his work with Tony Robbins and Brian Bufini and John Asfrith, you know, that was the model for every single one of them. 9:10 So let’s talk about so, so where do the free calls come from? 9:14 So let’s start there because I’d love to just kind of like walk through the, the, the, the, the process. 9:20 So you mentioned ads, but like walk me through in these different organizations, including ours. 9:26 So feel free to like talk about what, what you see, what we do since you’re, you’re got, you know what, you’re behind the curtain here at Brand Builders group too, of like, where do the leads come from? 9:36 Where the best places for leads to come from? 9:39 Are there certain places that convert better or worse or you know, are are warmer or colder, etcetera? 9:46 And let’s just talk about that, that component or piece of it. 9:53 So there are a couple of different places that that the leads can come from when you when you drive them to a call. 10:00 So, for example, you know, the the Russ Ruffino’s model was you know that he kind of made famous was Facebook ad to landing page to webinar to call that that was that was the funnel that that can work. 10:19 The main key component. 10:22 There is something that warms the the the person up because I I need a reason to want to jump on your calendar, right. 10:30 So in the case of a brand builders, you’ve done an amazing job with, you know, getting people warm to your message and what brand builders does through the podcast that you’ve been on. 10:42 And so, you know, you’ve been able to drive leads direct to count at brand builders through, you know, through podcasts, you basically have the opportunity to rent authority and then you deliver like crazy, which is awesome. 11:00 You deliver a ton of value. 11:01 People get a lot out of it. 11:02 And they go, holy crap, if this is what I got out of this podcast, what happens if I end up working with this guy and his team? 11:09 And we can do that through a pod. 11:12 You know, in your case, it’s a podcast that’s got fantastic reach. 11:16 We can also do that through really, really good quality lead magnets brand builders, for example, has got an amazing study on personal branding, which is insanely valuable and very, very compelling information that can drive people to a call. 11:34 We can also, if you know it for those people that have done a lot of legwork ahead of time and have built up a good following in a good audience, you can also do that, you know, directly through e-mail marketing where, you know, we deliver a lot of value to somebody for a while, great content on social or via e-mail. 11:55 And then giving people an opportunity where we kind of describe what it is maybe that they’re wanting or describe what it is their pain points are. 12:03 And if they’d like to fix it. 12:04 Listen, we’d love to jump on a call and see if it would be a fit for us to work together and help you past your your problems to the dream that you really want to get to. 12:12 Yeah. 12:13 And that’s, it’s, it’s interesting because if when I sit back and I look at like, OK, here’s Russ Ruffino or Tony Robbins or Brian Buffini or, you know, like Tom Perry is one of our friends. 12:28 Like the thing that all of these have in common is you initiate attention, then you add a lot of value, then you offer a free call. 12:43 And whether you initiate that attention on social media or a podcast or an ad or speaking as another place where we drive a lot of leads, right? 12:51 Anytime, anytime I’m out speaking, I speak a lot. 12:54 So we drive leads. 12:55 We drive leads from that or even referrals, but even when people give us referrals, even when a referral comes in, we we give them a lead magnet and we try to make them watch something or do something before they get on, even though they’re already warm. 13:11 It’s like we really try to make sure that they consume some of our content before the call so that if they show up for that call, we know they know who we are, what we do, they trust us. 13:23 They’ve gotten value. 13:25 Sort of the law of reciprocity is set in motion and sort of tipped in our favor because we’ve already added so much value to people and it and that includes and that includes this podcast, right? 13:36 Like everything we’re doing is like, we’re just trying to give so much value to people that they go exactly what he said. 13:42 If I’ve learned this much for free, what how much would I get if I actually went through this like formal program? 13:49 So I love that. 13:50 And you’re, you’re saying that in general that those principles kind of apply across the board with the different companies you’ve seen that have been successful doing this. 14:01 No question, each of them did it in a slightly different way, but there was always some way to build familiarity. 14:10 And, and, and also, you know, you, you are a master at really helping people as, as really or just about everybody else that you mentioned. 14:20 They’re masters at helping people understand that there is a mindset shift that they have to make between who they are and where they are now and who they want to be and where they want to go in some way, shape or form. 14:35 There’s a mindset shift that has to be made. 14:38 And that’s one of the commonalities that I’ve really noticed, Rory, is that whether it’s a lead magnet or a great webinar or a podcast or a phenomenal speaking engagement, the, the best of the best have have the ability to get somebody to think to themselves, Oh gosh, that’s not what I thought. 15:00 It’s actually different than what I thought. 15:02 Well, what do I do then? 15:04 How, how do I make this happen? 15:05 If it’s not what I thought, then what is it? 15:08 And then, you know, if you get the what, then you need to know the how. 15:11 And, and that’s where your free call comes in. 15:14 You know, you can give them the what And then, you know, the, the free call is the, the, the gateway to the how. 15:20 Yeah, I love that. 15:22 That’s so, that’s so good. 15:23 I don’t even know that I’ve consciously thought about it that way. 15:26 But but we even teach in our sales training in BBG that sales is all about the gap. 15:31 It’s the gap between where they are and where they want to be. 15:34 And you got to be able to paint that future and then also help them realize without offending them that like they’re not there. 15:41 And then that gap is basically what they buy is going like, oh, if you can help me close that gap. 15:45 So I, I, I love that. 15:47 So, so let’s say someone requests a free call. 15:50 What should happen to increase conversions between the moment when someone requests a free call and when they show up for the free call? 16:01 Like so now let’s just say we got the lead comes in the person requests the call, there’s a whole window there. 16:09 What are some of those things that need to happen inside of between that moment and when you’re on the phone with the client? 16:15 This is such a great question and one of the reasons why is that most people don’t even think about it. 16:22 They’re just excited, right? 16:24 They’re just excited that somebody landed on their calendar and it’s like, oh great, they’re going to get on my phone. 16:30 But they’re absolutely are ways to increase conversion and part of it in, in some cases, we’ve seen a lot of efficacy with like a really good solid application. 16:46 You know, that that almost feels like a a bit of a homework assignment for them. 16:51 You know, prior to the call where you get to learn a bit about them, they’ve got to spend a little bit of time digging in on maybe what’s not working, what they really want, what they’ve tried in the past, those kinds of things that can be very helpful. 17:07 Most people think that applications are are just for the salesperson. 17:11 Now all of a sudden, you know, all the things that are going to help you close the deal. 17:15 It’s actually very helpful in the, when you do it right, very helpful in the context of the potential client because they’ve got to spend a moment thinking about like, OK, what isn’t working? 17:26 What do I really want? 17:28 What is kind of sucking for me right now? 17:31 So that’s one thing. 17:32 The other thing is making sure that you’ve got really good, solid, ample notifications. 17:37 So, you know, that can come through, you know, your calendaring platform like Callan Lee or any of the other ones have got very good, you know, notifications. 17:48 It’s through e-mail as well. 17:50 Just letting people know. 17:51 I mean, I think we take for granted, Rory, that that, you know, we’re not the only busy ones in the world, but we get awfully offended when people don’t show up to sales calls. 18:02 And if we haven’t taken the time to try to remind them that they’ve got a sales call, then we don’t really have any reason to get offended. 18:09 So that’s one small simple step. 18:11 And then lastly, I would say anything that you can send them, you were talking about kind of the resources to get people warmed up and anything that you can send them that will, you know, help them understand more about, you know, either a, what they’re struggling with, you know, the the types of solutions that you provide a client testimonials are phenomenal things to send before people get on a sales call instead of after, which is what most people do. 18:41 Any of that kind of stuff is really good. 18:43 And I would say that if you can, automation is wonderful. 18:46 You and I both love automation, but one of the things that I think is a lost art in the world of sales is personalization. 18:54 We’re so quick to automate everything that when you get a prospective client, if you can do what I would, you know, if you can take some steps that I would call, you know, pro moves, you do a little bit of research, find out who they are, look at their application, what industry are they in, what are they struggling with? 19:12 And then try to send them some things that are curated. 19:15 Send them one of your podcasts that you know what is going to resonate with them. 19:19 Send them a client testimonial that somebody that they would identify with, you’re going to be so far ahead by the time they get on, you know, your phone by that point, drastically increasing the chances that you’re actually going to get to help them. 19:33 Yeah, that’s so good. 19:35 It’s such a simple thing you can do, right? 19:37 And it’s like you read their application and you send them a note. 19:39 Hey, I saw you were struggling with this. 19:42 Here is one of our free podcasts or one of your vlogs or an or 62nd Instagram Reel. 19:47 Like here’s a link to a reel. 19:49 You should check this out. 19:51 You know, can’t wait to talk, you know, more like that’s that’s, that’s really, really good. 19:59 The next thing I want to ask you about is the free call itself. 20:03 What is the best way to position this free call? 20:07 And the reason I asked this question is because nobody wants to show up as a consumer as to a sales call and just sit there and be sold the whole time. 20:17 But if the company offers it as a free call. 20:22 Then people go, oh, I’ll just take advantage of this free call. 20:25 And they have, they’ve got, no, they’ve got no psychological orientation towards making a decision. 20:33 So how, how do we strike the balance? 20:36 And what is that balance between making the call valuable for someone even if they don’t buy, not making it a not making it a sales pitch, but creating conversions and also making it valuable for the client, but not just wasting your team’s time? 20:52 Like how do you find that balance in both what it’s called and what you do on the call? 20:58 And like, how long are these calls and what percentage of the time is like adding value to the client versus telling them about the program? 21:07 But this is so important. 21:09 And what it starts with is framing, which is one of my favorite subjects in sales in general. 21:16 And most people think that framing happens when you get into an engagement, but actually happens before the engagement ever even starts. 21:24 So to your point, what, what, what a lot of people do is when they offer a free call, they’re so concerned that that that people are going to run from the idea of, you know, a sales call or actually talking about, you know, doing business together, that they go heavy on the free. 21:40 And often times in their copy or when they’re explaining it in a video, it’s free, free, free, free, free, free, free or or worse, they say, you know, come to a free coaching session. 21:52 That idea, because as you, as you mentioned it in that instance, you know, I’ve now given people the expectation that it’s it, it’s a free coaching session. 22:02 You’re going to get a lot of lucky lose. 22:04 You’re going to get a lot of looky loos and people that are coming on your call saying, Hey, I want you to fix my whole problem in the next hour. 22:12 So the first key is making sure that you position this in a way where you set a good frame for what’s going to happen. 22:21 You know, in sales, you and I know that we are always holding slightly different postures in a sales engagement and any kind of conversation and that begins with copy or, or how you’re inviting them to the call. 22:36 So just to, to, to give an example, the way that I like to kind of frame this up is I like to say things like, listen, Rory, so you know, we talk a little bit, we, you know, about a struggle or hate, you know, if, if, if anything that you read in this e-mail resonates with you, but I’d love to invite you to a free 45 minute discovery call. 22:58 Now on this call, we’re going to take some really serious time and deep dive on what’s not working for you right now. 23:05 And also really where you want to go. 23:08 And if I feel like I’m the right person to help you get there, we’ll talk about what that looks like. 23:13 If not, I promise I’m going to deliver you a ton of value and it’s going to be an incredibly valuable experience for you one way or the other. 23:21 If that sounds good, you know, book now there’s your copy. 23:24 By the way, if you’re, if you’re listening to this right now, you can go slap that in your landing page. 23:29 But, and we call that the pressure free promise. 23:31 By the way, also in, in our pressure free persuasion, we, we, we brand a technique called pressure free promise, which is to say, I’m going to give you a good look at this. 23:40 I’m going to learn about you. 23:41 You’re going to learn about us. 23:42 My job isn’t to talk you into buying anything. 23:45 My job is to help us to figure out if we have a match, if we’re a good fit, I’ll show you how we can work together. 23:51 If we’re not, that’s totally OK. 23:54 And just letting people have permission to say no really makes them comfortable enough to where they might actually say yes. 24:05 And that’s such a simple thing to do that takes pressure off of you as a salesperson and pressure off of off of them as a prospect. 24:13 And it’s you can do it in writing, you can do it with your words, you can do it, you can do it five times during the conversation. 24:20 But that’s really important. 24:21 And I like that was one of the things that when I think back to your time helping us when you started, like listening to our sales teams calls as you were, like, they’re not framing the conversation properly on the front end that there is the potential that a buying a purchase decision will happen on this call. 24:44 They’re saving it. 24:45 They’re saving it until the very end. 24:47 And then sort of springing it on someone and dropping in their lap like, So what do you think? 24:52 You want to work together? 24:53 And it’s like, that’s not a good framing. 24:56 That’s like dropping it in their lap at the end. 24:58 And they’re like, I don’t know what to do with this. 24:59 Like the objections come and I remember you’re like the team is not teeing it up properly on the beginning of the call, saying exactly what you just said, like, hey, we’re going to these are the things we’re going to do on this call. 25:13 It’s going to be valuable for you one way or the other. 25:17 If we can work together, I’ll show you how to do that. 25:19 If not, that’s OK too. 25:21 But you know, let’s have this and see if we can partner with you to get to the next level. 25:26 That that initial framing and that the first few minutes of the call and in the copy coming up in the video going leading into it is really been key. 25:36 That man, it’s it that that it is so important because what, what what I found at the very beginning, and by the way, this is what I’ve listened to literally thousands of sales calls in in this type of engagement. 25:51 And this is what most of them sound like. 25:53 It’s like, you know, somebody shows up and we go through the rigmarole about, Hey, how about that weather? 25:59 You know, man, Denver’s really awesome this time of year kind of thing. 26:02 And I think I’m building rapport. 26:04 And then comes the question. 26:05 And it’s something like, well, so tell me what’s going on and which leads to, you know, vomit, as I like to say, they vomit on you for like the next 10 or 15 minutes. 26:18 Your call, your call is way off track. 26:21 And worse yet, we think that we’re going to build rapport then as we go along by by, you know, relating to them. 26:29 Oh yeah, you know what? 26:30 I’ve been there. 26:31 Oh, I totally get it, you know, and, and sharing experiences. 26:35 And to your point, what happens is that we turn it into what I call a bro call. 26:40 Now all of a sudden I’m having I’m having a coffee chat with a friend and I get to the end of the coffee chat and I drop, you know, some kind of eight figure hammer on that person and they go, whoa, Rory, hold on a second here. 26:55 I thought we were friends, You know, I mean, and and so the frame it, it, it starts in your marketing, in your copy, and then it has to happen again at the beginning of the call where you set expectations. 27:09 Now one of the other key pieces too is that when you set the proper expectations at the beginning of the call, we talked so much in sales about building trust and an old school sales, you think that you build trust through ridiculous conversation at the beginning of the call and it’s not. 27:25 So one of the key ways that we build trust inside of a sales engagement is keeping our promises. 27:32 And when we set up the call in a certain way, and then we run the call in exactly that way, internally, they’re going, oh, he said he was going to do it like this. 27:43 And that’s exactly what he did. 27:45 You know, this is exactly what they told me it was going to be. 27:48 That’s that builds trust. 27:51 That’s so good. 27:53 And, and so would you say that the to delineate and to differentiate from the like bro call to the like helpful consultative decision making session? 28:07 Is that frame in the beginning? 28:09 And it’s, it’s just that what you said earlier, it’s just like, hey, here’s what’s going to happen today. 28:13 We’re going to cover these things. 28:16 And at the end of the call, I’ll share with you what it might look like for us to partner together. 28:21 And if you like it, great. 28:22 And if not, that’s OK too. 28:23 Is that basically the, the key to that? 28:27 That is, that’s the basic idea. 28:30 That’s the basic idea. 28:31 We, we take it as, you know, a little bit further by basically also just acknowledging that we were, we may need to dive deep on the call and, and asking permission to do so, which is also really key. 28:47 That’s another big problem that happens is that, you know, we hear a lot like, oh, you got to tell clients the honest truth and you got to be willing to, you know, call them out on their stuff and all the things. 28:58 Well, if you haven’t asked permission for that, try that out and see how that goes. 29:03 You know, you need a frame in front of that as well. 29:06 So that’s one little nuance that we kind of add in. 29:09 And then what do you cover on the call and how long should these calls go? 29:13 Yeah, great question. 29:15 So in the call in general, like loosely speaking, the the you know, we’ve got kind of our framing process. 29:22 And then then the next piece of the puzzle is, is discovery where we’re going to start by, you know, asking some some pointed questions. 29:30 Every person business offer is slightly different on that front. 29:34 When we talk about BBG, we, you know, we, we’ll ask somebody like, Hey, tell us a little bit about, you know, what’s not working and creating your personal brand right now, you know, something like that or, you know, what’s kind of the struggle in your personal brand that that brought you to the call. 29:53 And from there we, we go through a discovery process where we ask a whole lot of questions about, you know, what, what’s the, what’s the biggest challenge they’re currently facing? 30:04 How is that impacting them? 30:07 If that challenge were remedied, what would, what would it look like? 30:10 What you know, what’s kind of the dream? 30:12 How long has it been going on? 30:14 You know, etcetera, etcetera, things like that. 30:17 What I’m really looking for there is I’m looking to establish, you know, duration of, of the problem. 30:25 I’m also looking to establish frequency. 30:27 How often are they thinking about this? 30:29 Is this something that comes up for them often? 30:32 Is it a priority for them right now? 30:33 And also, I’m, I’m looking for intensity, you know, where else in their life is, is this maybe showing up if they’re really struggling with something, is it showing up in their relationships? 30:44 Are they, you know, is it showing up in, in their health, etcetera, etcetera. 30:48 So we go through that discovery process where we really understand more about the human being, the struggle, the dream. 30:55 And then once we get specifics on that, and I do want to use that word very intentionally, you have such a wonderful saying that, you know, the more specific, the more terrific and and never is that more true than in this part of the call. 31:08 If you lack specifics in the discovery phase of the call, you will fall short at the end. 31:15 So we want specifics. 31:16 And then, you know, from that piece, we kind of go into sharing it it if it feels like a fit at that point. 31:22 And this is a big key, you know, one of the things we’re so in alignment, you and I, on our philosophies about selling. 31:29 And I think we both believe very strongly that in order for us to say yes to helping someone, we have to believe wholeheartedly that we can do that. 31:37 So the discovery process is not just to learn more about the pain in the dream, but also to understand, can we help this person? 31:45 And do we want to help this person? 31:47 Is this the right fit for us? 31:49 Once we figure that out, we can kind of go through the, the solution portion of the call and the solution that was one of the other keys really in, in the increase of conversion rate. 32:02 You have I, I’ve told you this before and I’m going to say it again on air you, your frameworks are the are, are the, I think they’re the best in the world. 32:11 I think they’re bet they’re better than anybody else’s that I’ve ever known. 32:14 They’re phenomenal. 32:17 And we have a team of people at Brand Builders on our sales team that knows the, the, the these programs really well. 32:24 Several of them have experienced them. 32:27 And what was happening at the end of those calls at the beginning was that they were just, they were sharing the whole shooting match. 32:34 And it’s big, like the Brand Builders journey is, is is huge. 32:39 So they were sharing a lot and then giving a lot of options at the end. 32:44 And so that’s one of the other big keys is that once we get to the portion about the solution, we want to be very refined about the way we deliver it. 32:53 If at all possible, you want to try to take the pieces of your solution or your program that actually apply to the struggles that are having and perfectly match those and then offer them one option. 33:06 Even if you have multiple options at at the end of the deal, steer them towards one option and and leave something as a backup. 33:15 Because you know, as we all know in sales, the, you know, the confused mind doesn’t buy. 33:21 And that’s one of the big keys to finishing the whole thing strong. 33:25 And ideally, if you can complete one of these calls in 45 minutes, that’s rock solid. 33:32 What we usually like to do is to leave about an hour so that if somebody has any, what most people would call objections and we call limiting beliefs at the end of the call, then we’ve got 15 minutes to torpedo those and and hopefully we can move on within an hour. 33:48 Yeah, that that’s so good. 33:50 The, the one thing to add in there to, to kind of connect what you said earlier, like you, you talked about permission where you, you said early in the framing, do I have, do I have your permission to, to dig deep and to really get real with you? 34:09 That’s so powerful there. 34:11 And then I’ve also seen where you ask for that same the transition from the discovery portion of the call into the solution is also a permission conversation. 34:23 It’s almost like, as I’m saying this out loud, I’ve never actually realized this, but just as we’re talking you, you’ve got like the framing portion, the discovery portion and the solution portion. 34:36 And it seems almost like permission is the transition between each of those. 34:40 So the first, the first permission is do I have permission to dig deep, which sets up the stage for discovery and then asking their permission at the end of discovery. 34:49 Like if I’m reading you right, it, it seems like you’re very serious about this. 34:55 You know, would you be open minded if I share with you how our program works? 34:59 Like, do you want to hear how our program works? 35:02 Do you want to know what it would look like to work together? 35:05 Like, do I have your permission to share? 35:06 That is like it’s, it’s a, it’s a first, yes, it’s building, yes, momentum. 35:12 And it’s a really elegant transition and also a psychological powerful moment for them to go. 35:17 Yeah, I I do want to at least hear about the program. 35:21 If they say yes to that, it seems like they’re much more likely to like they’re much further along the buying line 100%. 35:30 And and it, it’s so true that that really is yet another permission frame. 35:36 And it’s basically to say, you know, we kind of the way we structure it as we do a little bit of a mini recap where we just kind of say, wow, Rory, all right, it seems like, you know, you’re struggling with AB and C right now. 35:47 I and, and really it’s affecting you here and what you really want is to be able to this. 35:53 Listen, if, if I could show you a way that that would help you remedy those challenges, would it be something that you’d be interested in hearing about right now? 36:02 You know, and, and if we think about this, this just goes back to good human communication. 36:09 I’ve now demonstrated, we talked about trust. 36:12 I’m now demonstrated to somebody that I’m present, I’m listening. 36:15 I’ve paid well enough attention to really understand the struggle and what, you know, what they really want, if at all possible. 36:22 I’ve given that back to them in their own words, which makes it even more powerful. 36:28 And then I’m saying, listen, if that’s really what it is, if I could show you something that would help you fix that and get where you really want to go, It’s not would you buy it? 36:37 That’s a key distinction. 36:39 As you said, it’s not would you buy it or can we do business together? 36:42 It’s can I just share something with you it, you know, if I believe it would help you pass these problems. 36:48 You know, if we’re having a good interaction at this point, the chances you’re going to get a no, there are slim to none. 36:56 It’s a, it really is a very elegant, elegant way. 36:59 And people feel good about that. 37:01 They’re going Oh my gosh, yeah, wow. 37:03 I mean, I just had to tell you everything that’s sucking. 37:06 I want out of the suck. 37:07 How do I get out of that yes, please tell me. 37:10 You know it’s also it’s like they’re asking to be shown the program versus just you dropping it on them and asking for a sale. 37:21 Like having that intermittent yes, right there is really important for them, for them and for you, because if they say no there, it’s like this is like conversation is over. 37:30 Like if they say no to that, they’re not going to, they’re not going to randomly say yes to a sale later. 37:35 So I think that’s that’s really, really cool. 37:39 The inside a brand builders group. 37:43 We we teach some sales training, pressure free persuasion. 37:46 We talked about the nine ways to close. 37:48 I want to talk about, I want to hear some of your philosophies on closing before we do that. 37:52 We only have a couple minutes left. 37:54 The if, if you all want to learn more from Ryan, like if you and I would say if you have a business, if you’ve got a business where you’ve got sales people doing free calls and you’re like, man, I need some support to come in and just like coach my sales team, work with them, listen to them or just get, you know, sales training in general. 38:15 Like I cannot recommend Ryan enough. 38:18 Like there are so few people we trust with this. 38:20 We know a lot about this space. 38:22 It takes a lot for us to hire someone to go, yeah, we’re philosophically aligned and we believe we’ve got stuff to learn from this person in this space. 38:30 And that is Ryan. 38:31 If you e-mail [email protected] and just put Ryan Lang in the subject line and then just kind of say, hey, we’d love to be connected. 38:41 We will connect you directly to Ryan because we recommend him as as one of our implementation partners and specifically are the implementation partner on this area. 38:49 Like if you’ve got a coaching business, so you got free, if you’ve got free calls coming in, selling anything, you got to work together. 38:57 So check that out. 38:59 Obviously inside of our curriculum, we have some sales training. 39:04 We talked about the nine different categories of closing questions. 39:08 I’d love to hear from you, Ryan, just a couple like 2 minutes on how to bring the call gracefully to a close, you know, and ask for the business. 39:18 If you’ve framed this right, you’ve gotten permission to go deep, you’ve done discovery, you’ve gotten permission to show them a solution. 39:27 You show them one specific solution option. 39:29 How do we wrap this up and actually turn this free call into dollars in the bank account and A and a changed life? 39:36 Yes. 39:38 So I, I think the very first thing that I, that I want to give someone on this call right now is that before we even dive into the tactical what to say, certainty sales is about transference always your energy and how you show up is going to transfer on your sales call and certainty is. 40:02 Of the utmost importance in this part of the call. 40:06 And so I would say First things first, you need to make sure that your delivery of your offer is buttoned up, that it is clear and concise and that you are extremely confident in being able to deliver it. 40:20 If you haven’t practiced it, practice it. 40:23 Do some repetitions, borrow some friends and family, go in the mirror, whatever you got to do, record yourself doing it and then play it back and listen and go, man, am I, Does that feel certain? 40:34 Does that feel confident? 40:36 Because that beyond the words is the single most important thing at the end of the call. 40:41 The next thing is make sure that you’re you don’t get cute with your pricing. 40:47 So one of the other ways that we can confuse buyers at the end of the calls, we can offer them one thing and then we can come up with nine different ways that we’re pricing it, you know, or it’s $12137.43. 41:03 Don’t confuse people with the pricing at the end of it. 41:06 Make it very, very simple for them to say yes. 41:10 And the, the, the last piece that I would say as it relates to kind of, you know, a closing question is I really like to present people, while my, while my program offering may be the same, I do like from a pricing standpoint, one of the things that Brooke and I teach is, is just the same way that you guys do it at, at Brand Builders is to have a monthly option and an annual option. 41:38 If you’ve got some sort of a subscription, if you have two different payment options, I really like that because I’m not just saying, Hey, do you want to buy it? 41:47 I’m going. 41:47 So, you know, I’m explaining the solution and then I’m going to go and, and Roy. 41:52 So basically at this point, I’m going to keep this simple. 41:55 Notice my, my, my phrasing and my languaging. 41:58 Rory, at this point, the only thing left to do is, is, is just answer one simple question. 42:04 And that’s basically, you know, which option works best for you. 42:07 Is it the monthly option or is it the annual option? 42:11 And how can I support you? 42:13 This is something I learned from my mentor that I love. 42:15 How can I support you in getting to super awesome goal and getting out of, you know, super suck and that at the end of it is really, really powerful because I’ve now taken my my price and don’t use that word, by the way, use the word investment. 42:33 We like that word better, but I’m not taking my investment and I’ve linked it to the pain in the dream. 42:41 We all, you know, those of us have been sales for a long time. 42:45 Know that price without context is always expensive, and in this case, it’s it’s especially true. 42:51 I don’t like to just leave the price out there dangling. 42:54 Most people will go, OK, so Rory, you know, it’s $10,000 and then they just sit there. 43:02 So give them an option a Rory, you know, the, the investment is the investment is 10K and you can either do the pay in full where you know, you actually save two months and you can pay us 8. 43:12 Or if you want to do it monthly, it’s it’s 1000. 43:15 You know, it’s, it’s $800 a month or 900. 43:17 I can’t do the math 809 hundred a month, whatever it is. 43:21 So give them that’s a really important nuance, though, of like it’s 11 program option, but two payment options so that it’s not a yes or no at the end, it’s a this or that, it’s a this or that. 43:34 You know that that’s really good. 43:36 That’s really, that’s really good, man. 43:38 Well, Ryan, this, this was a master class. 43:40 Like literally when I tell people our podcast is worth just the content we give away on our podcast is worth millions of dollars. 43:48 This conversation literally is worth millions of dollars to the person who puts it into practice. 43:54 We’ve been the beneficiaries of that. 43:55 Like it, it, it can at least be 10s of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of a couple years if you just implement the few things on this call. 44:07 So you’ve been so generous with that. 44:09 We’re so grateful for you. 44:11 We, we proudly recommend you because we, we, we formally were in the world of sales training. 44:17 We are no longer in the world of sales training. 44:19 So we push those, we push those people enthusiastically over to you specifically in this space. 44:25 You’ve been nothing but honest and had integrity and focus and most of all, service centeredness. 44:31 Like, at the end of the day, we just don’t believe in selling things to people that they don’t need or it won’t really help them. 44:37 And we don’t care how fancy the sales tactics are. 44:39 If it’s not going to help someone, we don’t sell it to them. 44:41 And I know you share that philosophy with us, brother. 44:44 So what an honor to have you and to work with you. 44:47 And man, we’re just cheering for you. 44:49 We wish you all the best, Rory. 44:51 Thank you and thank you number one for having me on the podcast and and also thank you for your trust. 44:57 It means such a great deal to me that you and AJ have have entrusted me to take care of your team and you are a friend, a colleague and and I’m very grateful for the work that we get to do together. 45:11 Brother, my pleasure, man.