AJV (00:01): Hey everybody, welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast with AJ Vaden here today. I’m so excited because I’m a long time fan of who you’re gonna get to meet today. So I’m over here fangirling and so honored and so humbled to get to introduce this audience to Toni Collier, who I just love. And before I formally introduce her to you guys, as I always do, I wanna remind you of why you should stick around for this particular episode. I think that at every stage in our lives, we all have an opportunity or, you know, we just kind of get it no matter what the opportunity or the challenge to reinvent, right? And I think that in a season of all types of things happening in the world around us, and when things can look crazy on the outside sometimes we can get lost of who we are, what we wanna talk about, what we wanna be known for how we wanna be seen, how we wanna show up. AJV (01:01): And if you’re in one of those seasons today, then this is an episode for you, right? This is a place to recenter, refocus, and talk about what does it look like to be resilient? What does it look like to show up as a new version of you? And also how to just stand your ground regardless of what’s going on around you. So if that sounds like it might be relative to you, then this is one of those e episodes that you do not want to miss. So stick around for the entire show. Now, let me formally introduce you to Miss Toni Collier. She is the founder of the International Women’s Organization called Broken Crayons, still Color. She is a speaker. She is the host of the Still Coloring Podcast. She’s the author of two books, brave Enough To Be Broken, and I love kids books. Broken Crayons still color. So Tony, I’ll go to the TC (01:54): Show. Ah, it’s gonna be fun. That’s what I, it’s gonna be fun. AJV (01:59): And who doesn’t love a fun episode that also touches on all the things that help us learn, grow, and improve? So here’s where I wanna start. Our audience maybe new to you. And so I want them to know where did you start? How did you start building your personal brand, speaking, becoming an author? Like, some of us fall into it, some of us intentionally do it, but I think it’s always really interesting to help people know, where’d you start and how did you get to where you are? TC (02:32): Yeah, you know, I honestly started serving, which sounds so cliche and all fluffy, like a little care bear. But the truth is, I connected with a local church when I was 21, and I was a pretty wild girl. You know, I was the you know, popping, twerking, drinking, smoking, all in the club, doing all the things, and just stumbled upon the church, let me tell you that. ’cause I thought I was gonna be a corporate lawyer. It is what it is. Stumbled upon the church and honestly fell in love with middle schoolers and high schoolers. Like, I just love those whippersnappers because they don’t care about your feelings, okay? They don’t care who you are. They are just like, they just ooze humility because you can’t be prideful around that age because they’re just so honest. And I loved it. I loved being able to be authentically myself. TC (03:16): I was far from perfect entering into any type of ministry space, but there was something so beautiful about that age, because that’s when we dream and we discover and we cultivate like around our purpose. That’s what these, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers taught me. And so I just started bopping around different schools, middle schoolers and high schools speaking. The students love me because again, I just was crazy and wild and I didn’t really hold anything back. Never have, never will. And from that place, I just started getting opportunities. I always say that when you’re building a brand, it’s like building a snowball, right? Like you’re just got this little bitty snowball and it’s just going and going and your exposure and who you are around and the relationships that you build and the stages you get to stand on, it all just contributes to making a bigger snowball. TC (04:03): And that’s what happened. I just started ending up on stages that I probably didn’t have no business being on, but I started working with Chick-fil-A they kind of saw some of my stuff out there, and they were like, you wanna come host our conference? I’m like, are you sure? Okay, . I started working with other organizations just all over the world, win Shape Camps and Mom Con and all these people just tired of like, reaching out. And from that place, I think I got enough reps to start cultivating my voice to figure out where am I really gonna land. And it wasn’t with students, surprisingly, it was with women helping them on a healing journey. And I think I started to discover that because I was on my own healing journey for so long, and I realized that I don’t just wanna walk through pain. I don’t just want to heal, but I want to help other people heal and walk through pain well as well. And so that’s how I ended up here with my little crazy self helping women heal, producing books and resources and podcasts and courses to help women do that really well. And it has been beautiful and so freaking hard, . And there’s, that, AJV (05:08): That’s just definition, definition of entrepreneurship right there, right? Beautiful and unbelievably hard. That’s right. You know, I wanna go back to a couple of things that you said, because I think this is a really important thing for our audience who really, for the most part, everyone listening has some, some level of desire and passion to get their message out into the world, whether it be speaking or podcasting or writing or content creation. And you said two things that are so unbelievably important that I wanna double back on these. Number one, you started speaking for free TC (05:43): Surprise, AJV (05:44): . So can you talk a little bit about like, how long did you do that? How many times did you do that? Where did you do that? TC (05:53): Gosh, probably for three years, honestly. And I mean, I remember the moment I got paid for my first speaking engagement, and it was after I spoke to a freaking auditorium of 200 middle schoolers. And these whipper snappers were barely even listening. And I was s not crying on the stage. And a a mom came up to me afterwards and was like, I have a women’s ministry and I’d love for you to come and do this broken crayons talk that you just did for these middle schoolers who didn’t even care about you. And I was like, what? And they were like, can you send us a contract? Can you send us a, I’m like, what are you even talking about? Like, what? I was like googling a template for a contract. Like, oh my gosh, I was just so overwhelmed. And I think I was overwhelmed because I, I didn’t believe that I deserved it. TC (06:37): And not from like a self-deprecating place, but from like, no, this is my passion. I would do this for free for the rest of my life. Amen. Because there’s a fulfillment that happens that’s far beyond an honorarium check or, you know, a speaking engagement. It’s, it’s really about like, what do you wanna put out into the world? And I think it’s such a beautiful indicator that we’re in our sweet spot, we’re in our purpose, we are so aligned that we could actually do it for free. And obviously there’s a business aspect to it. And I had to get a little wise, I had to get some mentors so I wouldn’t just out there doing things for free all the time because I had to make a living. But I mean, three years of serving my local community, of going to churches and schools with people that could give me nothing. TC (07:19): And let me tell you what I learned from that one. Obviously I learned that like, oh, I’m in my sweet spot ’cause I could do this for free. But also I think I learned that I could get better at it the more reps that I had without being prideful enough to ask for money because the reps that I got for three years speaking is why people book me now because I got so good at it, and it was for free and it was awesome. And honestly, it wasn’t for free because what I got in exchange for currency was excellence was the ability to do this really, really, really well in front of some of the hardest audiences that would fall asleep and be on their phones. And now it feels like a walk in the park because I got all those reps in AJV (08:02): Girl preach. Yeah. This is so important and I just wanna reiterate, and he said three years. I mean, I can’t even imagine how many dozens, if not hundreds of engagements happened in that time period. And I think that’s really important for all of you listening who’s like, oh, I have to have this fee scheduled to go speak. No, you don’t call people up, right? Yeah. Like, just call ’em. And then the other thing that I love that you said is, I got excellence in exchange for currency. And I think in a, in a day and a time where everyone’s teaching everyone how to build your personal brand, how to get booked to speak, how to make it this, it’s like we forget that before we start charging people, we need to be excellent at what we do, TC (08:46): Girl, girl. AJV (08:47): And that normally happens through doing it and doing it a lot, doing it so much that you know, what’s gonna make the audience laugh, right? What’s gonna make ’em think? And that just happens through experience. TC (09:01): Yeah. 100%. AJV (09:02): I mean, I just, I mean, I could just sit here and talk about that for the next 45 minutes, right? TC (09:07): , let’s just go. AJV (09:08): I think that is, that is what nobody wants to promote and tell you. But at the end of the day, anyone who’s in this business, this is the story they’ll give you. TC (09:17): Yeah. 100%. I also think that like, we forget about relational capital. It’s so funny because I think about some of those reps that I did for free, and I think about the doors that those people open for me, I was building relational capital in so many different ways to where, you know, when I always say that, you know, you’re getting good at what you do when someone mentions your name and the next thing they mention is what you do because you’re so good at it, right? Like, you’re like, oh, it’s Tony Collier, man, she’s a great speaker, man, it’s Tony Collier. Have you listened to her podcast? It’s Tony Collier. You’re like, oh, have you read her book on healing? Like those things only come with relational capital because people actually love you so much. They enjoy you so much. They know you’re not in it just for a paycheck, that they’re willing to use their relationships and their conversations to market you without you even having to be in the room. And that’s where the good stuff comes in. AJV (10:09): Yeah. So I wanna double down on that too real quick, because, okay, come on. Girl has said another thing that people forget, which is the importance of that relational capital. But what you said is, what I wanna highlight is be so good. This is what I heard anyways, be so good. People can’t not talk about you. Yep. And the, I think the , what happens as a result of being so good is what we would call word of mouth marketing, right? Yep. And we spend so much time consuming content, teaching us how to convert strangers on the internet to somehow be convinced of our products and services. And we forget that there’s real life humans that we have access to access to all day long who can give us more than enough business that we could ever handle. And so can you just talk about like, yeah, what, what would you like for someone who is starting into this business, or even if they’re pretty established into this business and maybe they’ve plateaued and they’re going, wow, like, oh, I need to do a paid traffic campaign, or I need to do more stuff online. Like, would, would you just kind of give a little bit of insights of where have most of your speaking opportunities come from over the years? Yeah. TC (11:26): I’m gonna pivot a little bit to product because I know that everyone here is not a speaker, right? Like, and, and this is such a beautiful example. So in 2020, my team and I decided that we would take a lot of the blogs that we were producing, a lot of the social media content, and that we would put it into a product and we had to sit down and decide what product is it? Is it a devotional? Is it a whatever? So we created a devotional all around anxiety and abuse. That’s kind of the felt needs of our audience. We started to realize like, people are really engaging with these two topics, anxiety and abuse. And so we created a devotional around it. Then after that we were like, okay, we really would love something that creates more engagement. So we decided to create a course and everybody was at home in front of their computers. TC (12:07): So we were like, surely this is a great market to create a course. And so we all sat down, did some market research, started doing some story mapping with StoryBrand and all those folks. And we came up with this course and it was great. 50 videos all under five minutes because attention spans are short. A super diverse cast of people that shot videos for us. We produced a journal from it, and then we were like, okay, cool. We’re just gonna put it out there and we’re just gonna say buy this course. And no one did . And we were like, what happened? What is going on? And so I sat down with Jamal Miller, who is one of the most brilliant. If there is another human being you need to get on this podcast, it is gonna be him, Jamal, I will connect you guys, it’s gonna be great. TC (12:53): I said, why can’t I sell my corpse? Like, what is happening? And he said, you just haven’t created enough relational capital and enough of a buyer’s market from your audience. And I’m like, well, how are we gonna do that ? And he said, well, I think the first thing you should do is a, a conference. I think you need to spend your relational capital with people like Christine Kane. I’ve done some things for her, Jenny Allen, Joe Saxton, all these people that you formed relationships with. And I think you need to pull in some favors and say, Hey, I’m gonna do an online conference. If you could come and speak for 30 to 45 minutes, I’d love it. We’re gonna give it for free. It’s gonna be awesome. These women so graciously came into our platforms. We did this conference. It was a three night challenge. TC (13:33): We were so excited about it. And then after night one, something crazy happened and we started getting emails and requests for like, what’s next? Like after this conference. And so we love this so much, what is next? And we transition people into the course from that free environment. But really that environment was us having a virtual lunch, you know, every single day for three days. It was us holding stories, pouring into women, giving them access to these amazing speakers and this amazing platform for free. And they loved it so much that they were like, I’m willing to pay for the course. And we’ve been doing the course for four years every year, and it’s just been so great, but I’m telling you, it’s gonna take time. It’s the delayed gratification. We think we want things and can build things very quickly, but the truth is, the work and the time that it takes to cultivate even a buyer’s market is the real work. That’s actually where it comes into play. And it’s all behind the scenes and no one sees it and then blah, blah, blah. But you gotta do it, period. AJV (14:40): I love that. And you know, one of the things we say to our community all the time is you wanna give 10 times the value of what you talk. It’s right there. It’s, it’s like again, it’s like you wanna have such good content that people are like, I feel guilty taking this for free. It’s like, I need to pay you. Like, this was so life giving. Like I TC (15:01): Need to AJV (15:02): Something, anything. TC (15:03): Yeah. But AJV (15:04): That comes back to you gotta have really good content, gotta know your voice. You gotta have done it a lot of times. And there’s just no way around speeding that process up other than doing it, TC (15:16): Doing it. That’s it. There you go. Surprise. Sorry. Burst some bubbles here today. AJV (15:21): You know? That’s the truth we all need to hear, right? That’s the truth. That’s the truth. We all need to hear. And I, and I love that it’s also, you’re such a great example of what happens Yeah. When you produce great stuff and you do it consistently. Yeah. And you know, it’s like you’re living your passion. It’s like, like you said, I do it for free, but I’m so good at it, people pay me. TC (15:43): Right. Surprise. Okay. You know, I will also say this too. That system that we’re talking about, cultivating a buyer’s market, making sure that we’re adding 10 times value, it never ends. There’d be a moment where you’ll kind of get a little prideful and be like, I can just put my product out there. It doesn’t work that way, especially if your front door is wide, because new people are always getting access to you. And so those new people all also always need to be cultivated with relationships. And the 10 times the value, it just never stops. And that’s something that I made a mistake on. I was like, I’m just gonna put the course up at this point. People know who I am, they know what’s going on, but if I wanna get new people in the course that have never experienced me, I’ve got to cultivate my relationship with them and the value that I give them in the same way that I did day one. And so it never ends too. AJV (16:31): Yeah. And I, I hear this phrase all the time in this digital space that we live in, and I don’t know if you’ve ever heard it, but I’d love to get your thoughts on it. When people say, you know, I just want mailbox money. I just want to make money while I sleep. TC (16:48): Ha passive income AJV (16:49): . And I’d love to hear your thoughts on the realities of passive income mailbox money. I just wanna create something and let it make me money while I TC (17:01): Sleep. Oh man. I, I just think, you know, it goes back to like the original like bone structure of investing and of having a really diverse portfolio. There are some things that you can use to make money. For example, I have merch and I, instead of creating my own merch and hosting it on my website, I did a partnership with an incredible company called Etch and Co two moms, they’re just so cute living their best lives. And because their business model was already a machine that was up and running, instead of doing my own merch, again, I partnered with them. So we sent them some designs, we asked them for some different colors. We got all the things. And that one thing is making money for me while I sleep, but it is because I have tapped into another machine that’s running. I can’t do that with my course. TC (17:49): I can’t do that with my book. I have to talk about it. I can’t do that with speaking. It is me. Okay, I’ve got to get my behind on a plane with my little suitcases and I’ve gotta do the job. And that’s just not passive. But I can have passive income if I master my partnerships. And I think our portfolio, so many Ps here, our portfolio has to be diverse enough so that again, this snowball is being built around all of the different streams that we have. And yeah, it’s just not one thing. You’re just not gonna have one little thing that’s making you money. It’s gonna be a diverse portfolio of things that will bring in money in different ways. So yeah. AJV (18:26): So lemme talk about that. When did start diversifying, because you don’t, I talked about this, say, I know TC (18:33): I this the other day. I talked about this the other day with my friends. I was like, I’m, I’ve got so many irons in the fire, I don’t even really know when it happened. But I think I, I think it’s a mindset of I want as many people to have access to what I have to offer in as many ways. And because I know that everyone is intricately created differently and they’re consuming information. I mean, for me, like I’ve got severe A DHD Okay. And I have decided not to take the medicine. So I’m just out here floating around like a tele tubby. Okay. And what that means is, for me, like I can’t read a book like a physical book, which is crazy because I’m an author, right? But I have to listen to it. It just is what it is. We’re not gonna finish it. TC (19:14): I’m consuming books through via the audio book. And so if an author has a great book that everyone recommends, I’m like, I’m not gonna read it unless it’s an audiobook. And so creating different streams I think is, this is gonna be a bold statement. I think it’s actually less about how much money you can make and how much we can build this portfolio. And really it’s about how much access you can give different types of people to be hooked into what you have to give. It’s about creating hooks for different types of people. And I think if you focus on that, if you focus on who’s my audience, who can have access to what I have to give, how can I build something for them that fits in their sweet spot? Okay, I’m gonna create a podcast now because I got mamas that are following me, single mamas that are following me that don’t have time to read no book, but they can listen to a 30 minute episode and at the end of the episode they can text the word hope to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and get a freebie. That’s only, you know, a quick read. And so I think if we begin to cater to these different audiences, I call them hooks. If we create different hooks for people with different places and different lifestyles, then I think we’ll look up, like I looked up the other day and be like, oh, I got all these different streams. I got this book, I got that book, and why are my nets getting wider and wider? But it’s not at all about me. It’s about who I can serve and how I can get to them. AJV (20:35): And I think that’s the key, right? It’s like you got real clear on the who and then said, how else can I serve this? This who, right? And I think most people, when you think about diversified revenue streams, it’s like, it’s not all the same audience. Yeah. And then it feels like work. ’cause It is, it’s a lot of stuff to keep up with. Yeah. So I would be curious to hear from you, like, yeah, there’s, there’s been an evolution in your journey of the who, right? Yeah. Clearly your who today is not who, when you started with middle schoolers, right? How did you find your who and how would you encourage other people to find theirs? TC (21:11): Yeah. I did this. So I did a couple things strategically, I hired a life coach from the Tom Patterson Institute. Her name is Emily Johnson. She’s incredible. Her husband, Chad Johnson works really closely with the John Maxwell Institute, and they’re just incredible people. And I saw the fruit of their life and I was like, Emily, please help me. I want what you guys got. What’s going on? And so the Tom Patterson Institute, if, if you guys don’t know, it’s just this hub for life planning. There’s life coaches all over the United States helping people to really hone in on like, what are you doing? What’s your message? What are you, all the things, you know, the purpose driven things. And in that meeting, honestly, I left and well, it was two days I left and I was so discouraged because out of that process, I discovered that it actually wasn’t middle schoolers and high schoolers, that it was grown women and grown women made my armpit sweat. TC (22:05): Okay. Because I’m just, I’m very playful. I’m really goofy. Like I’m very business oriented. But people get like the playful, goofy version of me. And then I get into a boardroom and they’re like, oh crap. Like she’s actually really like smart. And I’m like, you know, and, but it’s, but, but it takes a little while for people to really take me seriously, honestly, because I refuse to give up my authenticity to impress someone, right? And so I’m just gonna be bopping around and saying all the things I wanna say, and then I’m gonna get in the meeting and they’re gonna be like, oh, dang, we really underestimated her. But that’s one of the things I did. And, and I just was nervous about it. I’m like, are we sure? Like, is it women? Is it adults? I’m super young. How can I do this? And so I took it a step further that I think is a bit more accessible for everyone listening in than spending all these, this money on a life plan. TC (22:53): I got about three to five friends, really close friends that know me, that have known me for a while, and I ask them two questions. Number one, what’s special about me? Like what gifts and talents do I have? And number two, what gifts and talents do I have that impact the world? What happened was I got all these texts back and I put it on a whiteboard, and I started to circle all the consistencies. You’re a great communicator, you’re super funny, you’re a really hopeful person. Like you are always looking at the glass half full. Like all those things you make women feel really safe, which is where the women thing came. And I was like, dang it, it is women. Darn it. It’s adults. And I took all those things and I just really processed it. And let me tell you what it helped me do. TC (23:37): It helped me realize that I’m not a singer, because there are some people that’s like, this is my gift. I a hundred percent know that I’m supposed to be a singer. I’m the next Adele. And you text your friends and you find out that no one actually says that you’re a great singer, that it’s not actually your gifts and talents for the people out there that’s like, I’m a chef, I’m whipping and serving in the kitchen, and you text your four to five friends and none of them text back that you cook. Great. That’s not it. Because the people that are closest to you have already been impacted by your gifts and talents. They know, they know what you do that can actually impact the world. And you gotta listen to that and hone in on that and trust that that’s what you gotta pick, trusted people. And that was like two of the things that I did that was like, oh dang, okay. So I’m like a hope coach, communicator girl for women. Cool. How can I build around that? And that’s what I did, AJV (24:32): . I love that. And yep. I was literally, literally sitting here thinking, you know what it was hard for me is when you were talking is who would I send this to? TC (24:41): Uhhuh , AJV (24:41): You know, like, who would, who would give me the honest truth, right? Mm-Hmm. not gonna sugarcoat anything to me. And I think that who even you send it to is pretty important, right? TC (24:52): Right. Don’t send it to your mama. Do not send it to your mama. Who gonna tell you that you everything you wanna be okay. Because she been lying to you from day one. I’m AJV (24:59): Just kidding. Like, I’m like, I’m like, but, but some truth, there’s some truth to that, right? There’s some truth to that. I know, I know. My dad is, TC (25:05): Tell me the truth. My dad will tell me the truth now. So you may have a parent that’s like, no, that you ain’t good at that. Okay, . AJV (25:11): But I think that’s an important part of this is like, don’t send it to be people who tell you what you wanna hear, right? Mm-Hmm. send it to people who can speak the truth into your life, even if it’s not what you wanna hear. TC (25:23): Correct? AJV (25:24): Yeah. That’s good. Now you should, oh, go ahead. TC (25:27): Sorry. My bad. I get so passionate about this stuff, I forgot. I love AJV (25:30): It. I love, but you know what I love about this is like, this is on the honest truth. TC (25:34): Yeah. AJV (25:35): Like, people think there’s like some like, secret behind all of this. And I was like, no, it’s not. TC (25:39): It’s, AJV (25:40): It’s hard work. I would also TC (25:42): Say this, like, I think we, we have to become less offended with our, with our dreams and aspirations because I, I need for my dreams and aspirations for my books to be in the fire because I want it to be the best. Mm-Hmm. And so I, like, I have to lay my pride aside when it comes to who I want to be and what I want to accomplish. Because it’s in that space of humility where we get better, where we can take the criticism truly. Like, again, there were just things that I, I mean, it was really hard for me to let youth and students go. It was like my sweet spot. I’m funny, I’m crazy. I kind of like to dress like the young people like it. I was so comfortable in it. But pride said, I’m gonna stay what I’m comfortable in versus what I’m called to. And I don’t want that. I, I wanna be wherever it is that I’m supposed to be, not where I’m comfortable. So I will, I just wanna put that little note in there, guys. Okay. AJV (26:41): Yeah. You know, what am I, my personal life mantras, because that with me for a really long time is that your comfort will always hold you back from your calling. TC (26:52): Surprise, you know, again, AJV (26:54): Again. And, and sometimes like if you’re not willing to step into it, it’s gonna show up anyways. And then it’s gonna be a painful, a painful evolution process versus an intentional one. Now you, you mentioned authenticity, so let’s just talk about that for a second. ’cause I love that you’re so vocal about, hey, like, people really misconstrue, misconstrue my business savvy until I get into the boardroom. It’s like, you think I’m this, but there’s this other stuff. TC (27:21): I know, I AJV (27:22): Know. And I, and I love that because I think a lot of people make a lot of unnecessary assumptions. We all do every day. But I love what you said, it’s like, I refuse to give, give up my authenticity. And so I’d love to hear why, where did that come from and how can other people develop that same level of commitment? TC (27:42): Oh, well I can only speak into this because I’ve done it wrong. Right? Like, you only get authority when you start doing stuff wrong and you’re like, well, that didn’t work. I’m a recovering people pleaser that it is what it is. I’m a recovering people pleaser. My counselor one time said, you’re like a little chameleon. Like you’ll just blend in. It’s because you wanna make people feel comfortable, which is commendable. That’s the gift side of it. The shadow side is at the expense of who you are, you will blend in at the expense of who you are. And honestly, like I’m super extroverted. My friends, 110% of middle school called me a tele tubby. I’m loud. I have a really strong loud laugh. I, I’m, I just have a lot of energy and I’ve always felt like, man, I have some insecurities around. I’m just too much for people. TC (28:31): Like, they are getting so shocked it when I roll upon an introvert, they’re like, their eyes look like, please someone save me. Like from this girl. Like, it’s just a lot, you know? And I remember when I first got into ministry, and again, I didn’t get saved till I was 21. Like, it took me a whole long time to get into any type of church thing. But you know, like the pastor and his wife, it was a really foreign space to me. It was like, they were like the king and queen, you know? And I had no idea. I had no idea at all. And I went, they, they took me to this conference and I was so excited. I was like yelling. I was bopping around everywhere. And I saw the pastor’s wife and I’m like, Hey girl. And I like rubbed her face. TC (29:10): I did it. I took my hand, I rubbed the side of her face, and I was like, here’s o okay girl. And she, and it was like, I was probably gonna be fired the next day. Like, it was like not okay. And there are some really unhealthy aspects of that type of culture, you know? But I like really just messed all up in her personal space because I didn’t know. And I was also in staff meetings all the time with all the ideas, talking over people. And I remember my mentor was like, for the next two staff meetings, you have to be quiet. You don’t get to say anything at all. And I was like, at all, but my ideas are great. What do we mean? Like, I can contribute to this environment. He is like, no. What I was learning in that time was that I can absolutely be myself. TC (29:52): I have to have boundaries around that, that there is an appropriate time and place to do and say certain things. And really, I was just becoming mature. I was so young in ministry, just like doing my best, trying to do whatever. And I think over time what I realized is when you enter into new spaces, there is a level of humility that you have to have. And it’s not at all dimming your light. It’s leaving space for you to grow and learn. Mm-Hmm. , I was really young. I didn’t have all the ideas. I didn’t have context. There were things that I was so ignorant to, but because my personality was so big, I essentially was robbing myself of a learning experience to really understand how people work, who they are, what to say, what not to say. I was really robbing myself of being a better communicator. TC (30:43): So over time, I just learned how to balance that really well. And now I think I’m at a place where I have so much authority that I have the freedom to just be myself. And it has been so beautiful. People love it. They’re like, you are nuts. Like, we don’t actually know what’s happening right now. It’s weird to me that you can be super deep and be on a stage talking about the hardest things and walk me through my healing journey. And then you’re like cackling for 50 minutes because you are sitting in a quiet meeting and you’re not supposed to be telling the joke, you know? And you told the joke and now you’re like crying, laughing. So I love that. And I love that people say all the time, like, Tony, I just feel so free around you. Like I can actually be myself. And I think it’s because I am being myself. And it gives people their permission to be themselves. And you want people to buy from you, learn from you, grow from you. Give them the freedom to be themselves by being yourself. Oh my gosh. It changes the game and it’s been beautiful. AJV (31:43): Well, this needs to be like a quote on a poster somewhere. Being yourself allows others to be their selves. TC (31:50): And there you go. AJV (31:51): I mean, that needs, that needs to be on your next merch right there. TC (31:54): All right, I’m gonna do it. I’ll tag you . AJV (31:58): But, but, but you’re, but you actually do this. You don’t just talk about it. You do this. And you have recently been through some really public trials. And one of the things that I, I think I’d love to kind of talk about, and this kind of relates to some of your content and what you spend a lot of time talking about, which is a big part of your personal brand. But what I have found is that a lot of people that we get to engage with, with our company, brand Builders group, and probably a lot of people listening to the show, they try to hide the hard parts. TC (32:28): Yeah. AJV (32:28): And I think this is connected to the conversation around authenticity, right? Yeah. And it’s like we, we wanna show all the good stuff we’ve done and all the great accomplishments, and then we just kind of, of like to like cover up the really hard and difficult parts because we’re guilty, shameful whatever, whatever, embarrassed, who knows, whatever, all the things, right? Right. But you, you haven’t and you don’t. And so can we just talk about like what’s the value Yeah. And sharing the hard parts of our journey. TC (33:00): Yeah. I love this question for so many reasons. There was a girl on our course call or woman, I dunno why I say girl, there was a woman in our course call last night. Literally last night I started my new women’s course cohort group. And we have this thing, the strategy called story liturgy, where you just tell all your business or, or a specific pain point. And instead of responding with solution, we all respond with how their story made us feel. And we do rounds and rounds and rounds of that. And I always go first always, and I talk to them about something, you know, that, that I’m battling through right now with my daughter. And it was hard. I was like tearing up. I was like, blah, blah la and I just had like this outer body experience and thought, I wonder what these women are thinking right now that they signed up for this course and healing. TC (33:52): And I’m finding hope. And the leader starts off by telling like a really hard part of her story that just happened that’s, that she’s literally in right now. And the first little feeling is like the remnants of shame. It’s like, it, it’s that, it’s what you’re talking about. It’s what society has done. It’s like, wait, wait, wait. You can’t be imperfect in front of your audience, in front of your followers, in front of you, et cetera, et cetera. Like that’s the first little thing. And then because I’ve been doing this for so long, the truth comes out and says, no, no, no. The reason why they’re here is because for some odd reason, in the midst of all the hard you’re going through in your vulnerable, crazy, broken, painful filled moments, you still have hope. Mm-Hmm. . And they want that. And they can’t see it unless you show them the dark side. TC (34:47): They can’t see the mountains of hope that you’re standing on unless they can actually be exposed to the deepest, darkest valleys that you’re going through. Because I wouldn’t have, I said this earlier, I wouldn’t have the authority to tell them that healing is on the way that hope is on the way if I didn’t experience it myself. Amen. I can truthfully and honestly say I have seen the goodness of the Lord in the land of living. I have seen healing, I’ve seen redemption. I’ve seen my actual neurons in my little brain on a screen change and grow and heal and mend because I’ve been through some of the hardest things. And you just don’t need hope unless you’re in a valley. And I need them to know that I have the authority to speak on this because I’ve walked it over and over and over and over again. The greatest products, the things that we purchase always comes behind a felt need. Always. We’re all gonna get a little zoom camera because our MacBook cameras are whack and they’re blurry and they look stupid. So I’m gonna go buy the thing that they’re selling because I’ve seen the dark side of it. I’ve seen what life is like without a great little 4K camera attachment. Okay. And I’m gonna buy 17 of these suckers because I wanna look like Beyonce. Okay. On the thing. So don’t AJV (36:09): We all. TC (36:10): Yeah. We all. And so we have to show people what life is like without the thing that we’re producing, selling, putting on the market. We have to because it makes the very thing that we’re selling, producing, presenting so worth it if they can see why they need it. And that’s, that, AJV (36:29): That’s so good. And, and you know, it doesn’t matter. And I’ll just give you like a quick personal example. It’s like, doesn’t matter how many times I speak or what I talk about, the moment that I share the hardest parts of my life, the parts that I’m most embarrassed to talk about or used to be. Right. Those are the things that every single time people Thank you. That TC (36:51): Was Thank you. Because I connect deeply through pain. Yeah. Period. AJV (36:56): I can’t remember anyone ever coming up to me and be like, aj, I just love about all your accomplishments. Oh my gosh. TC (37:03): Oh my gosh. My kid got straight A too. My kid got straight A’s too girl. I was like, okay. No, nobody AJV (37:10): Says that ever. Not once has anyone ever come up to me and was like, loved hearing about all your success was so good for me. Like, this isn’t happen. It just doesn’t happen. And I think if we can all remind ourselves that it’s like the, the hard parts are there for a reason. They’re there for a purpose. And there is always purpose in the pain. Like always. Yeah. Always, TC (37:32): Always. Yeah. Well, it’s never worth it, but it’s also never wasted. And there’s so many studies around what we do with our pain is the litmus test of the pain that we’ve been through. It’s what we do with it. It’s the life of meaning. On the other side, it’s like, how can I take this thing? I mean, it’s my whole thing. Like, I mean, honestly my whole entire everything, ministry, whatever, all the things that I produce, the catalyst of everything I do is my pain. Hmm. Privilege. And it doesn’t make it worth it now, but I for sure know that none of it’s wasted. None of it. AJV (38:10): You know? That’s so good. And this is slightly an off topic question. Ready? TC (38:16): I ask you, let’s do a rabbit AJV (38:17): Trail, because I’m always looking for little cracks to talk about some of this stuff. . I found what? I’ll take it. We’ll take it. You mentioned, you know, like your, your faith journey and it, it wasn’t like it was from the very beginning, it was crafted over time. But you’ve also mentioned some of these really, really hard dark valley. Right? Some of ago, some recent. And we all have, and I have interestingly enough, been in a few different circles here lately where people have said, I’ve, I’m just walking away from the faith. Right? I I did, I used to believe and now I don’t. And when we dig a little deeper, it’s usually like of some, some event that has occurred in their life or it’s because of some person, right? Mm-Hmm. Right. They’re looking at other, you know, in this case, Christians believers going, Mm-Hmm. I don’t see it. Yeah, I, I used to, but I don’t see it anymore. And I’m someone who you’ve had a lot of really hard stuff in trials and you still go and I still believe, TC (39:25): Mm. AJV (39:25): Where’s that come? That’s good. Where’s that come from? TC (39:27): Well, this is another one of those. I’ve done it wrong and I’m back and I’m doing it again. You know, I’ve only been on the Salvation Bus for like 12 years, you know, like I spent most of my life drunk, high, sleeping with everybody’s son doing all the things, you know, partying. And when I first got saved, all of my faith was in a pastor, a person. I just, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. Look at this pastor. He is like preaching. He’s giving me opportunities to be a youth pastor and to like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And I remember one time the, the first time that something felt a little off was when I was having a conversation with him and he said, you know, only one tree can be planted in a church, in this church house. TC (40:15): And I’m that tree and you are a branch. And so the further up I go, the further you will go. So you gotta stay connected to me so that you purpose can grow. And I just remember being like just this young 20 some odd year old, like that feels really weird. And especially it’s not biologically correct because trees actually planted by each other helped to strengthen each other. So I’m a little confused here buddy. And I realized that I had put my faith in a man and not a savior. And I was. I was like, when stuff got weird, when I asked for a break time off from the ministry, it was like, no, where are you going? You’re building your own kingdom. You’re doing this. It just got so weird. And when I decided to transition from the church with no ill intent at all, the pastor completely cut me off and I completely cut my faith off because it was stored up in a man and not a savior. TC (41:10): And I remember around, so that was around 24, 25 and I’ve been saved for four or five years. And I was, you know, singing all the little songs on Sunday and living a reckless life Monday through Saturday. You know, going to church hung over like just crazy wild. Didn’t know what I was doing. There was no discipleship there. And I remember at 24, 25 when I was going through my divorce, my first divorce, I’ve been divorced twice. And my ex-husband was very violent. He would just rip doors off the hinges and I ended up having a little girl and I had to, you know, just create some safety and stability for her. And I remember I went to God and I was like, bro, you gotta show up like straight up. Like you need to fix this. I have done nothing wrong. I am, well, I mean, I did some crazy stuff, but I did not like I’ve been serving you. TC (42:02): I’ve been trying like I am new in this faith thing and this just sucks. Like all this sucks. And I would say it probably was like my deconstructing kind of like period. And I was just like, you gotta show up. Like if you are real out here, if you out here bringing people from the dead, healing people that can’t walk, like you gonna have to heal my life. Okay? And what’s interesting is I look back at that now and I’m like, you were so feisty. And that was okay. ’cause God was like, alright, I’m gonna show you. And over the next couple of years, between 24 and 26, I started having these wild radical encounters, like stupid stuff that was just like, Lord, is this sorcery? You know, like what is happening? Like just people I would meet and scriptures that would pop up and all these real, I call them God winks now because I’m like, oh, he’s playing chess up there. TC (42:51): Beautiful. and it changed me because then, and now my faith is in a savior who created the entire universe who’s just as off as me and mad as me and sad as me about this crazy broken fallen world with all this free will and people being all ugly and nasty and ratchet and all the things. And I needed 24-year-old Tony to 3-year-old Tony to actually have a faith that was grounded. Not in an institution or whatever, but in a savior who came back from the actual dead. Okay. After three days. And I needed that because this past year I was married to a pastor, we had planted a church, and last year I got a FaceTime call from him that he was being extorted by a prostitute . And this was the third time that it had happened. And I had given grace and I had believed in restoration and redemption for our marriage. TC (43:55): And then it wasn’t real. And it was so close to home and so close to my faith. And it didn’t impact my faith because my faith wasn’t in a husband who was a pastor standing on a stage. It was in a savior. And I gotta tell you, while the healing journey this past year or so, especially with my kids being a single mom now, has been horrific. Because you try to go through a divorce, but babe, you try to go through a public one without, it’s your name all over the internet. It is insane. And I have chosen not to share all the things that have happened publicly to protect my kids, but my God, it was terrible. And my faith has never felt stronger. And it’s, AJV (44:43): That’s pretty TC (44:43): Cool. Yeah, that’s pretty cool. AJV (44:46): But that’s the result of knowing where to put your faith. TC (44:51): 100%. And I get a little feisty sometimes, honestly, because I’d be like, you really think some little measly human can have my faith? Mm-Hmm, AJV (45:00): . TC (45:01): You playing around. You playing around. Not when God has provided for me and my kids in ways that no man could not, no, no, no. Not when, not when the Lord, not when I’ve seen miracles in my mother’s life who has had so many health issues and have almost died and been brought back to life. And little things that don’t even make sense in her body. No. So sorry. You can’t have it because it’s not yours in the first place. So that’s my take on the thing. AJV (45:30): I love that I, as you were talking, it made me think about this song take It All Back by Torin Wells and Y’all Dunno, this song by Torin Wells. It’s all together. It’s my anthem cry. It’s my battle song. And it’s like that whole thing. It’s like, I’m gonna take back what the enemy stole. It’s not yours. You can’t have it. TC (45:51): You have it. AJV (45:52): I pray. I pray for your level of faith for every single person in the world and speci specifically over our country right now. And then oh yeah. Pray for that level of restoration, of reckoning of who it belongs to, who’s who it is. Like that is such an inspiration on so many different levels. And also it’s, that’s the kind of faith that’s rewarded and it’s not rewarded in necessarily worldly things, but it’s rewarded. Knowing nothing in this world can shake me. So bring Wow. You know, that’s the type of faith that hurt people search for long, for listen to find. Yep. So thanks for being open about it. Thanks for being vulnerable about it. And honestly, thanks for, for walking the path. That’s really hard. And not losing what’s so important. TC (46:43): Yeah. ’cause it is important. It’s the only thing. Yeah. When you don’t have anything, it is the only thing. Yeah. And it’s more than enough, huh? How about that? You don’t have anything at all. It’s the only thing. And it’s more than enough. I know. It’s all that you actually need. What a gift. Dang. AJV (47:01): That’s so good. And sometimes you only know it when you go for those dark valleys, which is why again, it’s like the pain is never wasted. It’s how we choose to see it. It’s so good. I could, I know I could blabber on for a while here with you, but I know our time is coming up. We have to get ourselves TC (47:18): Together here. AJV (47:19): Y’all please check Tony out. Just go to her. Instagram is like a central hub on social media. It’s Tony with an IJ Collier. You’ll get this in the show notes. But Tony j Collier is her handle on Instagram. You can also go to tony j collier.com, which you can find all the things and all the places. So this is just a, a personal shout out of follow, learn , right? Absorb right. Do all the things. But there, I believe there are so few places in my personal opinion that teach it the right way. And this is the place that you can go to not only find hope and healing and encouragement, but also it’s like, man, there’s, there’s some real business savvy around just building an authentic audience. Like right. Not a paid, like paid for audience, but an audience that’s coming for a reason. And it doesn’t have to be millions of people. Y’all don’t have to be huge for it to make a massive and eternal impact. And Tony, I just think you’re doing that and I think you’re doing it in such a awesome and impactful way. Now I have that one last question before I, before I let you. TC (48:33): I like it. AJV (48:34): You and I, this is just something because so many people have this passion and desire to do it. I personally know that the journey to writing a book, becoming an author and doing all the things is not, not easy. Yeah. And I think it’s always important to ask people who have written a book, why did you decide to do a book? TC (48:55): This is the wor this is the hardest decision I probably ever made outside of switching from students to women. Because I kept saying, why would I write a book? Why would I write 50 to 60,000 words? I don’t even wanna write a paper in school. Who’s gonna read my book? Blah, blah, blah, blah. I wrote a book because when I leave this Earth, which could be tomorrow, and I’m totally fine with with it ’cause I’m absolutely ready to go be with Jesus. I want what I’ve overcome to live on beyond me. Hmm. And sitting up at my laptop with severe A DHD trying to work in coffee shops and in my little office nook and in my bed and on planes and typing out 50 to 60,000 words is worth thinking that one day, my kid, her kids, I don’t want my son to have kids because I’m territorial over him and I don’t want him to have a wife. TC (49:50): May, but maybe his kids will be able to pick up a book and read that their mom, their grandmother, their great-grandmother fought with everything in her Mm-Hmm. And she never gave up. And I was at the park yesterday and there was this little mom sitting there, Ashley Williams, I’ll never forget. And we followed each other on Instagram and sh and we were just sitting there talking, playing with our kids. And I said something to my son and she was like, I recognize your voice. She’s like, are what’s your name? I was like, Tony. She’s like, you write books? I was like, yeah. She said, my daughter has your book Broken Crayon still color. Literally just yesterday. She lives in my neighborhood. I’m gonna go drop off some stuff for her daughter. And she’s like, it’s helped her so much process through her emotions and what that, I wrote a book because of how difficult my dau my own daughter was having a time in school and all these different things with her emotions. I wrote that book to honor her and to share with other parents that it’s really difficult. And Ashley Williams, who I was sitting next to in the park yesterday, it’s helped her daughter. And it’s a selfless act because it’s so hard to produce, but it’s one that lives so beyond me and where I can be and a stage I can be on. And so I have unfortunately done it again. And I have a book coming out next year and Yep. . So I’ll keep doing it ’cause it’s worth it. AJV (51:25): It’s worth it. Yeah. I love that. And I hope that gives everyone a good heartfelt reminder of the, that thing that you feel in your heart and your soul. It’s there for a reason. Don’t ignore it. Get those words on paper. Paper. Y’all like, put it out there. There’s somebody out there who needs it. You may never know who it is, but they need it and they need to hear it from you. Tony. So good. One of the best interviews I’ve had all year. Yay. So good. So many amazing golden nuggets, y’all, this is one last call to action. Go follow Tony on Instagram, Tony j Collier. I’ll put it in the show notes again, and for the rest of y’all, stick around for the recap episode. It’ll be coming up next. And we’ll see you next time on the influential Personal brand. See you later y’all. TC (52:12): Bye . AJV (52:14): See you. All right