Ep 298: Overcoming Sales Reluctance with Dean Graziosi
RV (00:03):
I am really excited and honored to introduce you to somebody who I’ve just recently gotten to know. And I wanna tell you why I’m bringing him to you. First of all, before I tell you who he is and what incredible things you’ve done, which you’re already gonna recognize who it is. But I saw this gentleman stand on stage and make a generous offer to support the victims in Uvalde, Texas, and their families, and to support another man who’s really, really near and dear to me at my let in a way that made a massive difference. And when I think of influence and how you create influence in the world, it speaks volumes to me about who are the people you surround yourself with and who are the people who will come out to help you. And Dean Graziosi stepped up in such a huge way with such a pure heart and being in the same room with him.
RV (00:53):
And we’d never met before, but the night before ed my let’s event, we were at dinner and I just caught, I caught 0% arrogance pretentiousness 0%. I’m better than youness. It was, it was a hundred percent. We’re here to do a mission to support ed, to support the people watching. And then he spontaneously throughout, you know, a pretty generous offer to help a lot of people. And you know, that was, that is how I got to know Dean Graziosi. Now you probably have heard of him before, right? He’s a multi New York, multi-time New York times bestselling author. He has worked with at least 14 major companies that are eight and nine figures that he’s helped him grow significantly. Of course he has millions of social media followers. He’s got lots of different programs, a couple of his books, millionaire success, success habits.
RV (01:45):
And then also the underdog advantage are have been, you know, read, bought, sold hundreds of thousands of people. And in 2019, he began a partnership with Tony Robbins and they started mastermind.com. And they have a, a, a program called the KBB the knowledge business blueprint, and they’ve helped over 50,000 people in this business. And the expert space understand how to better monetize what they’re doing, get their, their passion out to more people extend their reach. And so anyways, when I met Dean, I said, yeah, man, you know, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna be one of your top affiliates probably, but the way that you have ENCA interacted over the last couple days, I would love to be a part of introducing you formally to our, our community who we hold sacred and dear. So with that, welcome to the stage, the one and only Dean Graziosi.
DG (02:39):
Sorry. Thank you, man. That, that was a great introduction. I’m on vacation for just five days of my family and just happened to what a perfect spot it’s like. It’s great. They got the flag out front. But it, this was important. I come on with you, man. It, it was a pleasure to meet you. I saw what you stepped up and did for ed. He he’s a dear friend of mine and, and you did nothing but serve and help him get that great book in a lot of people’s hands. And I, I just wanted to do my part for everybody else. Listen, I know you got lots of options. Glad you’re here with us today. I promise that we’re gonna deliver some massive value today in the next 25 or 30 minutes. I, I know people have choices. So when you’re here, I always feel like I’m, I’m on like I’m performing.
DG (03:14):
Like I, I gotta bring it because you got lots of other options. So, and I know how much the depth of how Rory cares. We got the chance to know each other a little better. So pleasure to be here. And this is the perfect audience. This, you just explained who this is and what you do. And it’s so amazing when we have that desired dream passion, or sometimes it’s not even a dream. You just so, oh my God, I could be in an industry of sharing. What I know help serve others, help people get faster to the end result, help people avoid the mistakes I made or go quicker to where they wanna be or a million other things. When you get that under your skin, that we can truly, and this is the, this is easy for me to talk to this audience when we truly can make an impact and serve while simultaneously having the ability to create massive success in an industry that’s exponentially growing.
DG (04:04):
That is a real, real a rare combo. There’s not many places where you can impact and serve and create a thriving business. That’s why I’m, I love it. That’s why I think you probably love it. And today I wanna help deliver whatever I can to help you go faster, quicker, because this is a time the world needs the best version of you. We know we have 41 year high inflation. We know we’re headed towards a recession. We know we’re in an economic winter. We know that some people are, a lot of people are gonna hurt through this time, but we also know this industry is gonna grow through this. This industry is gonna be there to serve and help people. So I believe right now is a time we have to find another gear. We have to tap into our full potential. We can’t leave anything on the table. God, the universe, people, the world, whatever you believe need us, need the best version of us. Now, our family need the best version version of us now. And this is one of those rare things that if you do it right, and as you know, if you’re in this, this is a time you’ll actually grow. So anything I can do to help serve any of those topics I’m here.
RV (05:05):
Yeah. So here’s, here’s a, here’s one that I’ve always, I’ve always wanted to, to ask you about for our audience. So we, we refer to our audience Dean as mission driven messengers. So they are people who truly care about the mission more than the money, but sometimes it’s to their own detriment. Sometimes they struggle to sell because they feel like it’s pushy. Sometimes they’re shy about marketing cuz they feel like it’s vain. Sometimes they feel like if I’m asking people for money, you, you know that like somehow it’s, it’s very selfish. And I think one of the things that you do really well is you are, you are super service minded in terms of trying to help people, but you’re also very bold and straightforward in terms of like being convicted in why people should take a next step. Yeah. So if someone is wrestling, how do you wrestle with that? Like how do you reconcile that? Like
DG (06:00):
Really great, really great question. I’ve been helping people with that. If you don’t mind. I, I I’d love to jump right in here because sales, because we grew up with watching cheesy sales people on TV and, and somebody might have been sold something that didn’t serve you. So many people have this negative association with sales mm-hmm
DG (06:42):
Do you think there was other men who wanted to help civil rights and change the world because it was unjust. Do you think there was a lot of people that wanted he did because he was influential and a salesperson and marketed himself. And look at the change that man made to the world, right? Our association to sales is the reason that we might feel icky about it. If you don’t love what you do, if you’re selling an inferior product, if you’ve dabbled and created a half, half baked coaching program, then you should feel bad. But I’m gonna tell you the first thing to do love what you do so much. You feel bad if people don’t use it just simple as that. Mm-Hmm
DG (07:28):
I’m gonna give you a quick little story here. I think it, it really, cuz I’ve been asked this question a lot over the last 25 years of doing this. And I was on stage with five. It was three or four or 5,000 business. Women and women sometimes feel this more than men when it comes to marketing and sales. And I said, who’s ready for, you know, I was in my middle, my presentation say who’s ready for another level. Who wants this? Who wants that? Ever. They were fired up amazing audience. And I said, who’s a little apprehensive or scared or don’t let, doesn’t like selling almost all of their hands went up. Mm. So there’s a woman in front couple rows in, I called on her. I said, Hey, what do you, what do you do? She’s like, oh my God, I help women through trimester four.
DG (08:06):
Nobody knows what that is. That is after the baby, you feel insane. You still look like you’re pregnant. You feel like your life isn’t yours anymore. Cause you got this baby and you don’t know if your husband loves you anymore. And it’s this crazy time emotionally. She goes, I went through hell. But then I found a way to get myself strong and save. And she goes, now I help women go through that. And I, I have gooses cause she’s so passionate about it. Or she was like, so passionate. I said, are you good? She goes, oh my God. I love these women. I empower them. I change ’em and she tells me this. I said, I wanted to break her state. I said, then why are you screwing women over? And she’s like, well, I don’t understand. I said, you said you don’t like sales and marketing and her mannerism.
DG (08:44):
She went, no, I feel bad. I said, so then you’re willing to let women suffer in silence because you have the ability to help them. Can you help them? Oh my God, are you good at I’m the best? Do you love the women? You help more than anything. I was put on this earth to serve these women. I said, here’s the thing. If you build it, they will not come. I don’t care how great you are, how much you love these women. It will not come unless you find a way to attach service to marketing. When you realize every time a woman says yes and cut you a check, you get to impact her lives, her life in an amazing way. And if you don’t only two things can happen. That woman suffers in silence and never gets help. Or she goes to someone who’s not as good as you, but they’re better at marketing.
RV (09:26):
Mm.
DG (09:27):
And I watched three, four, I, I think it was 4,000 women. I watched, I watched cheers and no one had ever given him permission to look at it that way. And I know you, maybe you have, or you thought, but really, maybe, maybe today’s the first time you really heard it. That if you don’t sell, you don’t serve. So you could keep working on your, if it’s comfortable to work on your curriculum, if it’s comfortable to design the logo, you’re probably, if you’re not making the money you want or the impact you want, you’re probably working on the things that make you feel comfortable. And you’re avoiding the things that, ah, I don’t know about the marketing. I’ll get back to it. I’m gonna encourage you today to lean into the parts that are, you’re a little uncomfortable with gain capabilities, fall in love with what you do on a whole nother level. Cause when you fall in love with your product, then gets what the byproduct is. You fall in love with gaining capabilities about marketing and sales from those who’ve already been there. And when that combo comes together, oh my God. It’s magic.
RV (10:25):
Oh, that’s so good. I mean, and, and, and also true, you know, like a lot of the people who are winning in this space today, they’re not necessarily the best or the smartest, but they’re, they are great at marketing. Like it is a marketing game. So here’s another thing I’ve always wanted to ask you. Ads. So ads is another thing that people are afraid to do. Like, oh, it feels cheesy. It feels maybe like I’m cheating or I’m scared of losing money or it’s like, how do I, you know, spend money, not knowing if I’m gonna make that money back or going well, is it, it’s not the same. It’s more competitive yet. I’ve seen, you know, you run ads, you’ve done info initials. Like you’ve done so many things of like, I’m gonna make sure I get myself out to the world. So can you just like, if someone’s reluctance about spending money on advertising, what’s your, what’s the Dean Graziosi? Like what goes on in your head to be like, yeah, I’m gonna dump a bunch of money into this. Not knowing if it’s gonna come back to you.
DG (11:26):
Yeah. So because we’re stuck in a frame of what traditional advertising is. So I really want you to hear this traditional say, brand advertising, say, you’re advertising Coca-Cola you might have somebody drinking a Coke while they’re playing basketball or on stage, or you might have a Coke and a movie, or you might have a billboard or a radio ad or a TV ad. But none of it equates to the exact sale, right? That’s more of brand advertising. I wanna get my brand out there. And I want everybody to know about me, right? What we do in direct response, marketing and advertising is you measure every dollar. If I spend a dollar on Facebook, does 75 cents come back or a dollar 25 come back. So first and foremost know that there’s never gonna be a time right now. We’re Tony Robbins and I are getting ready to do a challenge here.
DG (12:18):
We’re gonna spend a lot of money on promoting this free five day challenge, but we know our metrics. We know every time we spend a dollar, how much we need to come back in order to make it so we can be sustainable and not go broke. Right? So let me just back up a little bit. First thing is we are in an absolute when I first started, there was no internet. How crazy is that? There was no social media. We couldn’t target a demographic. We, I had to do an infomercial. There was no other way to get into people’s homes and see if they, they wanted what it was that I was delivering. But you have the opportunity with social media, where you can go to Facebook groups that are similar to your genre. You could start a Facebook group where you’re given all away, nothing but value.
DG (13:03):
You could post on Instagram and Facebook and YouTube and LinkedIn, and you can test different topics. So let me give you a little example, getting ready. I’m gonna pull back the curtain. We’re going, we’re doing this challenge. It’s called the time to thrive challenge. Over five days, we’re gonna help people in this space, how to go faster, quicker, how to be bolder, how to have more capabilities, how to thrive. Day three is all about selling. Day four is all about building an audience. Day two is about identifying exactly what you be sh should be selling. It’s five days. It is unbelievable. It’s free, but we still gotta get people to come. And what we wanna deliver so much value that people continue to work with us. That’s in complete transparency, right? Sure. But I wanna tell you, you know what I did last month, I was filming different one minute videos that I was posting on social.
DG (13:48):
Whether you have five followers, 500, 5,005 million, I was posting different content. And I found a couple of things. I did a one minute video and I said, Hey, during a recession, during inflation Warren buffet said, there’s two things you should do. Number one, invest in yourself, get better at what you’re doing, become the person that people go to. So you’ll get a bigger piece of the pie. Number two, be a part of an industry that has higher margins. Don’t get caught with supply chain issues or your product costs going through the roof. And then your margins are gone. I shared that in a video. And I said, why not consider the self education industry where you’re teaching your life experience? The margins are huge. You don’t have to store it. You don’t have to warehouse it. You don’t have to ship it. You could sell it over and over again.
DG (14:33):
And you really get to impact people’s lives while you make money. I did that all in one minute, that video skyrocketed people were sharing it all over the place. Roy. So then I had an unfair advantage when I was gonna run an ad. What do you think? One of my topics were when I ran an ad, I was like, oh, that video, everybody loved and liked and commented on. Let me shoot an ad like that. And then let’s spend 500 bucks on it and see if 500 bucks if 200 come back or 600 come back. Right. So just know it’s, it’s the art of Kaizen. It’s one step at a time. Don’t, you know, where people get in trouble is like, I gotta, I gotta market. I gotta do some ads. And they put a whole bunch of money in ads without testing it without tweaking it, without understanding the fundamentals and they could lose money, then they get stung. And then like, I’m never doing that again. It’s only cuz you didn’t have the right guidance. You didn’t have somebody step you into this one piece at a time.
RV (15:21):
Yeah. Yeah. And I want, I wanna talk a little bit more about that in a, in a, in a second here. I know I don’t wanna get too much in the weeds on this, but just a straightforward question. Do you ex do you expect to break even on your ad spend like on the first sale or is it more, do you have a longer lifespan of going ah, some of it I might make back over the second, third, fourth sale.
DG (15:41):
Yeah. So some of it that’s when you first start. So, so write if you’re gonna write anything down today, when it comes to ads, write this down, you know, who wins it at ads? Do you know where
RV (15:53):
The, the, the, the, the person who has the best metrics
DG (15:56):
Or the person who could spend the most?
RV (15:58):
Oh yeah.
DG (16:00):
The person who could spend the most to an acquire a lead wins. Yeah. So if you’re brand new and you’re selling, you know, a weekend, you’re selling your course and your course sells for 500 bucks and it’s costing you $200 to acquire that client. Oh my God, when you do it all day, you spend two, you give somebody a $200 bill. They give you back a $500. Bill spend as much as you can and you’ll get some of those sales, but then you’ll get to where it’s costing you $400 for a $500 sale. And then you’re getting to a point where it’s $500 for a $500 sale. And then most people go, this does this ad game doesn’t work. But when you look at serving people where they need it, sometimes you sell a course. And of course is enough for I sell a book.
DG (16:41):
Sometimes my books are enough for somebody to, I, we have thousands of testimonials just from my book. Then some people go books, not enough. I need Tony and Dean’s course, man, that, that project next, which is, I believe the greatest personal, you know, self education course ever created like that course, oh my God is amazing. And some people say, got the book amazing, got the course, but I need someone to keep me accountable. I need a coach or a mentor. I need to be on a call once a week to get these answers. These questions answered. It’s like the professor at a college, some kids could do it with the books. Some people need the professor, right? And some kids need extra tutoring. So if you have the books and the, and the teacher and the extra tutoring, some people are gonna self-select and say, Hey, I bought your course for 500 bucks.
DG (17:26):
Amazing. But do you have a coach that can help me through it? We do. And it’s X amount. So it’s, I know you guys get this. It’s about lifetime value. It’s not about trying to sell somebody so much stuff. They don’t need. It’s about delivering what they need. Some people need a coach. Some people need their hands held. Some people need to be held accountable, right? So when you have additional products, some people, maybe 80% of the people just need your course, thumbs up 20% might want a weekly coaching call or a deep dive. One on one coaching call. That’s more money. So, which means is your average lifetime value of your client over six months over a year for that $500 buyer could actually be a thousand dollars. Now I’m not getting in the weeds, but really think about that over time. Oh yeah. I want that coaching. Oh yeah. I definitely need that too. And all of a sudden, now that $500 buyer is worth a thousand. So you can go in and spend $700 to acquire a $500 client and you’re still winning and you’ll win in the ad game. Cuz most people can’t afford it.
RV (18:27):
Yeah. I love that. Parallel of some people can do it with a book, a textbook. Some people can do it by going to class. Other people need the tutor. Like, yeah. It’s just, it’s just the same.
DG (18:39):
Would you say, would you say, oh my God, that too, like that is horrible that
RV (18:43):
You’re taking, you’re taking advantage of people because you sold them tutoring.
DG (18:47):
Yeah. Because they’re struggling. You know, I I’ll give you an example. I’ll share this. We call it a value ladder. Right? So I wanna give you this. My daughter was in ninth grade last year. She pitched for her softball team JV. She pitched 13 outta 15 games start to finish.
RV (19:01):
Wow.
DG (19:01):
So proud as a father, right. Won about 75% of her games. And I think she’s gonna be I think she’ll be, if she sticks with it, she’ll be a superstar by the time she’s in 12th grade. If she decides I’m not the forceful type, but I wanna share something with you when she was younger, she watched YouTube videos on how to be better at softball. Right. And then there was a time she bought a $97 course on how to be better. And then we found the guy and he was doing pitching camps where like these little treat they’d spend an hour and it was 40 bucks to pop. It was $40 a pop. And she could go with like six other girls, right? So one was free. One was like 97 bucks. And now it’s 40 bucks. She was going once a or once or twice a week.
DG (19:49):
So let’s just say 80 160 say it was 250 bucks a month. And she was going to this clinic and all of a sudden she’s like getting serious. And the coach said she probably needs one on one she’s excelling. Now that went to 200 bucks, times four, it went to a thousand bucks a month for one on one. And he’s been teaching her a thousand bucks a month, one on one now for two and a half years. Right. It’s the difference where she’s at. You think I’m gonna say, how dare that coach offer us one on one to help my daughter. I feel blessed that I can I’m. So I feel blessed that I could afford it. Whereas some people can’t and if we couldn’t, I’d say work your tail off with that free video, hun, I feel blessed that I could afford it, but there’s somebody else out there in your niche right now?
DG (20:37):
That’s saying, I don’t just want the course. I want, I don’t just want the free YouTube video. I don’t want the $97 course. I don’t wanna work with seven other people. I wanna work one on one or maybe I do wanna work with other people. So when you offer those varieties as a value ladder, each one of those is value to my daughter. Each thing that you share will be value to someone else. But when you get done that client could be worth, you know, $480 a month on average between all of them. And you could spend $300 to acquire that client,
RV (21:06):
If you do, and what, what, what athlete do we go? Oh, you know, they got taken advantage of because they had the private coach. It’s the opposite. We go, they had an advantage because they had the best coaching in the world.
DG (21:18):
Absolutely. So, so when you shift your mindset is that you can be that person for someone else that holds them accountable. So they don’t fail this time. I mean, the, the worst thing I think about is somebody who’s bought 10 courses in their life and they never got the results they want. They need someone to go, Hey, stop buying courses. You need a darn coach that keeps you accountable.
RV (21:37):
Right? Yeah. Get in, get in there. I mean, it’s like those are, those are such, such great parallels. So and I wanna go ahead and throw this out, right? So if, if you go to thrive three fifty.com, the we’ve got some partnerships, there’s some free training, depending on when you go, the sooner you go, the more free training that’s gonna be available to you. So when you, if you’re hearing this, if you go to thrive three fifty.com, Dean and Tony have put together these free trainings and the sooner you get there, the more likely you’re gonna catch the catch, the free training. But it’s also like, it’s interesting to hear like, oh, Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi have to advertise. They have to go on podcast. They have to get the word out there. Like, of course you do. So I wanna mention that URL it’s thrive. And then the number three 50 thrive, three fifty.com.
DG (22:27):
Yeah. Let me, let me tell you, let me tell you if, if you’re watching right now and if anything I shared today is intriguing to you, then you need to go register and go see what we’re doing. The, the live portion it’s five days, it starts August 2nd. It’s gonna be probably two hours a day. It’s Tony, myself. It’s Jenna Kucher. If you know who Jenna is and Russell Brunson. Oh,
RV (22:45):
We know we know who Jenna Kucher is. Yep. For sure.
DG (22:47):
And, and Russell Brunson and Brendan Burchard and Lisa Nichols. And we even got Matthew McConaughy coming, cuz I loved his book, green lights. And you know, he really went into the self education industry with that and he wants to do more. In fact, we might be doing something special with him, but what we’re gonna do over five days is really pull back the curtain on how to really narrow down what you should be teaching who you should be teaching it to. Right. And I mean, day one, just with Tony, Robbin’s gonna blow your mind. You it’ll get you in a space, especially during, you know, recession during all this craziness out there, you need to get laser focused in here. And I don’t believe there’s anybody better on the planet that can do that than Tony. But over those five days, we’ll, we’ll narrow in that niche show you how to ethically market through service, how to build the following.
DG (23:26):
Even if you’re following is small or next to nothing and then how to tie it all together and how to launch your next sale. It’s either your first or your next sale, right? The whole goal of the five days is get your first sale, your next sale, inconsistent sales. That’s what makes this a real business where we impact others and and create success for ourselves. But it’s gonna be something really special. And it’s only happening once and it’s live. The two things I would share with you Zig Ziegler said if, if you don’t pay, you don’t pay attention. Really? Remember that in your business, think about the things you got for free and think about the things you worked hard for. If you worked hard for your first car, you cleaned it, you polished it. And we also know that we’ve bought children or friends that bought children in their first car.
DG (24:07):
They didn’t pay for it. And they wrecked it in a weekend. It was, it was so nasty on the inside, right? Cause they didn’t earn it. They didn’t have to pay for it. Right. I wanna tell you just because this is free, you need to value it as if it was 5,000 bucks. It’s Tony Robbins. I mean, he’s got a waiting list of people wanna give him a million dollars a year to be his coach, right? It I’ve been blessed. I get paid 250 grand a day for consulting just had one a month ago. I’m not saying that to brag. I’m saying, convince yourself, you paid five grand or a thousand bucks show up and play full out. And what I’d also do is take that 5, 3, 5, zero.com and send it to someone right now who needs it and have, ’em be your accountability partner, go through it with them, have them show up with you, go send ’em to strive three fifty.com. And yeah, it’s gonna be a fun. It’s gonna be a fun five days. It’s a lot of work and it’s worth it.
RV (24:54):
So before I let you go and, and, and check this out and like I said, I, you know, getting to meet Dean face to face in person was a, was a whole different experience and like, see, seeing your heart here. And, and this is, is really encouraging. So, so go there. One other thing that I wanna just like get into your mind a little bit before we let you run off, is your mindset about money, right? So this is another thing, sales, advertising, also money. You know, there’s big talks of recessions coming, obviously, you know, inflation, like there’s a what are you, what are some of the, or like, what’s one thing related to the mindset about money that a a mission driven messenger. I mean, that’s what our audience just, they all have that in common, which is also another thing where it’s like, ah, like making money sometimes feel like evil or like, you know, I, I have to take advantage of somebody
DG (25:47):
Money. Say, I’ll say, I’ll jump in here. Cause I’ve asked, I’ve had that question asked a lot and I love answering it. When people say money, doesn’t buy happiness. I say you haven’t given enough away yet. Mm, simple as that. Yeah. I haven’t given enough away yet. And, and I don’t say that to be disrespectful, but you know Richard Branson, I was blessed enough cuz I raised money for his foundation. It wasn’t, we were best friends and not wasn’t cuz I was super cool. But the billionaire of Richard Branson, I got the chance to spend a week with him on his private island in in the Caribbean Neer island. And I didn’t even know if I was gonna see him. I just knew I was going the same time he was there and him and I both got up at 5:00 AM one morning.
DG (26:25):
He said, Hey, you’re up early. You wanna sail? I’m like thumbs up. Right? And I got in a boat with him and I, and I had some of those thoughts, not a lot, but he said, Hey, I believe God gave us all unique abilities. And I believe some people, God bless their souls. They go to the soup kitchen or they go and they volunteer their time. And what would we do without those amazing humans? He said, but I believe all of us have different capabilities. I found it later on in my life that I had the ability to make money. And that was my purpose because I could cut checks to solve problems. He said, some people need to go work. There he goes, I might be able to do a campaign and walk in and hand that soup kitchen, a hundred thousand dollars gift.
DG (27:03):
And when I realized that I just wanna get better at me. And if I do the right things with the money, then I get to utilize my gift. He goes, favor, started coming my way in the biggest way possible. And that shifted for me too. You know, listen, when I was a kid, I would’ve, I dreamed, I used to dream that someday I could make a thousand bucks a week, 50 grand a year. Oh my God, that would’ve been that would’ve been like when I was in high school, I didn’t come for money. I literally lived in a trailer park with my dad. My mom worked three jobs to make nothing. And I remember, man, if I can make a thousand bucks a week, life will be good, 50 grand a year just because it was in my heart. When I was on ed stage, you know what it felt like that I said, Hey, you know, today, while I’m here last minute, I’m gonna donate $50,000 to the family.
DG (27:46):
Nothing lights me up more than that. And last year we passed eight mil, I think 8 million meals, seven and a half million meals through feeding America. We built two churches in Africa. I donated $600,000 to operation underground railroad to help children in slavery, man, what could be better than that? While simultaneously my business actually helps empower people to go faster, quicker, better to their own dreams. And we get to employ people and I get to make sure my family’s okay. So just like selling, I think you gotta find a way to shift what money means to you, make it and give it all away, make it and help change the world, make it and help your church. Do what serves you. But I just don’t think we’re put on this earth. I don’t think any creator would put us on this earth to play small. That’s just my belief.
RV (28:30):
Hmm. Yeah. What well in just fascinating to just get those perspectives and to see you know, that you’re, if you don’t have that belief, then the conviction to, to tell people about what you’re doing is gonna not, is not gonna be there. And, and, and, and people aren’t gonna feel the energy and they’re not gonna buy. And so getting, getting these mindsets right is so huge. And so that’s why I go to thrive three 50, you thrive three fifty.com. You can check this out. I mean, look, Tony and Dean are reaching millions and millions of people, like regardless of what you might know or not know, you go, you guys are reaching millions of people and you’re showing people how to do that. So like that is just really cool. And you’ve been so generous Dean with your time here, like so many great, great parallels. And just thank you for that conviction Dean. And, and, and thank you for this. I think this is, this is a leveling up my thinking and you know, to, to go, man, I wanna stand on stage and just go here’s $50,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, what an amazing way to to, to, to, to provide blessing the world. So thanks for being here, brother. And we just, we wish you the best.
DG (29:47):
Well, thanks man. Appreciate everybody spending time with us and we’ll see you on August 2nd.
Ep 296: Methods for a Better Marriage with Kathryn Gordon
RV (00:02):
What an absolute honor to get to interview one of our best friends. Kathryn Gordon first, and, and foremost is a, is become a really close friend of my wife, AJ Vaden. Of course, our CEO, my business partner. They have quickly become close friends. I have been close friends with her husband, John Gordon for years. And Catherine is extraordinary. So she is a mother. She’s a business woman. She’s a movie producer, she’s the best selling author of a book called relationship grit. And she’s the host of a podcast called Catherine for real podcast. As she won AJ over just kind of with like her spirit of honesty and authenticity and transparency and it just makes me so, so happy. And so John has been a mentor of mine for years. Obviously him and Catherine have been together for a very long time. They’ve built this whole business where they built John’s personal brand. They built an amazing family and then they built they launched a book together and now Catherine has been really developing her own personal brand here recently. And so we just wanna hear about that journey and basically I thought I could get some free relationship and marriage advice from Catherine Gordon to better understand my wife. And so anyways, Catherine, welcome to the show.
KG (01:28):
Oh Rory, thank you so much for having me. I love AJ. It’s like, it’s been an honor just to work with her recently trying to help me figure out my brand, but I love her as a human being. She is so authentic and so real and I just, you guys are both awesome and John of course thinks the world of you. So thanks for having me on.
RV (01:52):
Yeah. Well, thank you. So one of the, one of the things that doesn’t happen that often is finding entrepreneur couples, where they both work in the business, like both in inside of personal branding, where they both have personal brands. And I think, you know, that’s something that we have done and there’s a few others. Sometimes they’ll work together and, and one person has more of the personal brand and the other person is more like kind of behind the scenes, but you and John both have these external facing these great personal brands, you wrote the book together. And so I, I thought we would start with the book. So relationship grit comes out. It’s a best seller. You guys did this. So tell me about that book. Why did you write that book? And let’s kind of start, start with what that’s all about.
KG (02:50):
All right. So, you know, it’s funny because you were talking about couples having their own personal brand and early on when John was just starting. Well, we actually started or started with a FRA franchise called Mo Southwest grill and we brought it down to Florida and we worked side by side. John was in the restaurant doing his thing and I would, would be at home the waiting for the kids to get off the bus, but also doing the bookkeeping and payroll. And, you know, John would come home. I was trying to book him to speak while we were running this restaurant, cuz he really wanted to, you know, get out there and start speaking. And he would come home after I had done like 45 things and he would ask me if I had done the 46 thing. So I wanted to kill him.
KG (03:40):
So it wasn’t always that we did this together. Okay. It was so funny because you know, one night after he had done this, he actually, you know, wanted to be, my husband like wanted to be intimate. I’m like, I don’t even like you. And he said, I think I might need to fire you. I think you, and I thought that’s a good idea. So, you know, we kind of rode this wave and, and, and John Rose up in the speaking. And then once I had raised our children, we had raised our children. I started to run into women at the grocery store or, you know, at the shopping mall and they would just open up to me and complain or pine or tell me, you know, things that were going on in their own marriage. And several of them were, were headed for divorce.
KG (04:33):
And the more I started talking to them, the more I realized I started to see a pattern. And it, it was really simple things because the one question I seemed to always ask when these women would, would tell me what was going on was, have you shared that with him? Did you communicate with that with him and nine times outta 10? No. And so I was really shocked to find that so many couples are married, but they don’t communicate. So I went home to John and the more I started talking about this, I said, I really feel like we need to write a book because our book is not a book about, oh my gosh, look at us. Our marriage is so great. Look what we did. Here’s all the great things about our marriage. Our book is about here is what we went through.
KG (05:25):
We went through the trenches. I mean, we went through some really, really hard times. I was very, very sick early on. There was some infidelity, there’s been some substance abuse. I mean, we’ve really ran the gamut. And so I really felt like if we could, if we could, if we could make it, anybody could. And so I wanted to write this book to, to try and save marriages. And so in the book, the way we wrote it, and even the way we wrote, it’s very symbiotic of our relationship. I would sit down and write a chapter and, and, and get up. John would sit down, edit what I wrote and then write his own and vice versa. I’d edit him and he’d edit me. But it was a back and forth. Our book is a back and forth. It’s the it’s Catherine said and it’s John said. And so that was the reason we, we wanted to write this book and it was, I think no coincidence that it ended up coming out right before the pandemic, because I have to tell you, there were times during the pandemic, John Gordon was home 24 hours a
RV (06:36):
KG (06:37):
Now listen, Laurie.
RV (06:39):
After years of being gone. Yes.
KG (06:41):
For, for the year before he had done 85 speaking engagements on the road, all of a sudden he was like, literally with me nonstop. So definitely there were times we had to open up the book and, and take some of our own advice.
RV (06:56):
RV (08:12):
And how are we saving for the kids? This are we’re going on vacation. We need a new car and da, da, da, da. And then it’s like, you get to the end of the day. And you’re like, I’m exhausted. Like, I, I don’t wanna think, I, I, I can’t think like I don’t, I don’t have anything left. And so you go by the time the kids go to sleep and everything is quiet and you’ve eaten dinner and you’ve cleaned up and it’s like, you got, you got nothing left. So is that kind of what y’all were going through? Cuz I I’m describing, I’m not describing my life. I’m describing other people’s lives, but I’ve heard that other people have this, this scenario.
KG (08:47):
Well, Rory, you just described our life. I mean, yes, it was, it was hard. And so what I tell couples, because I actually hear exactly what you just said all the time. We all, I think struggle with that to one degree or another. I think at the end of the day, you need to realize that you’re a team and it’s it’s we, not me. What are the things that we found that was, was really helpful for us is going the extra mile. It’s that little thing. And trust me, John would come in, he had been traveling nonstop. I wanted to pounce on him to rather share, you know, a good or bad situation with one of our kids. So I had to figure out, you know what, I need to give John this buffer zone. And so we need to give each other buffer zones.
KG (09:41):
And then after that, really, even though what you really wanna do is look after yourself, try to give a little bit of time what, whatever it is, you know, go out and help, help your wife unload the groceries. Just really try to, to, to give, even though you feel like you’re, you’re about, you know, you’ve, you’ve reached your limit. What we started to find John’s word one year was oh my gosh, I gotta make sure I say it, say it right. It was serve. And it was the best year of my life.
KG (10:40):
And that’s the last thing John wanted to do, but he did it. And I gotta tell you by the end of that year and it wasn’t just him giving, of course it was me and F you know, whatever we needed at the time. Mm-Hmm
RV (11:23):
Yeah. That it’s, it’s also a, it’s also shockingly scary how quickly you can turn against each other. Mm-Hmm
KG (12:11):
I think it’s different things they’re not communicating, but just in general, just say let me give you an example. Well, I’m trying to think a girlfriend the other day was just saying something she’s home. She’s taking care of the kids. Mm-Hmm
RV (13:48):
John, let me, let me tell you, I know I have figured out through an, an unfortunate repeated occurrence of doing this at the wrong time. I know one time you should not communicate you should not give feedback to your spouse in response to them giving feedback to you.
KG (14:36):
A hundred percent? It’s funny you say that John Gordon used to do the same thing. And with us, it used to be really more related to the kids. Also, you know, where, you know, I’d say, well, he’d say, well, you really need to be doing this. Or, you know, and I’d say, well, you need to be doing this. Yeah. That doesn’t serve anybody. So you’re right.
RV (15:50):
I wanna ask you about the little kids, right? So Jasper just turned five. Our oldest and then Liam is a, a, just a couple months here, away from being three. And I was having this conversation with a friend because I’m like these last few years with kids have been some of the most beautiful and fun and joyous. And also for me personally, probably the most difficult years that I’ve ever had. And I was telling them, like, not only is it kids, we also are in year four of a startup. And we already did this once before, like we already went through the pains of a startup once and we’re having to do it again. And then we had COVID and then it’s like in the middle of COVID. And like, when it, with the kids specifically, like in my mind, I have a little bit of a proof of concept with COVID because, you know, when we were building our first business, we started in 2006, but sort of the height of it really happened around 2008, 2010.
RV (16:56):
And that was right in the middle of the GE C the global economic crisis, like the mortgage, you know, all of the mortgages collapsed and all that stuff. And, you know, it was like, that was a, a hard season, but we came out of it and we came out of it really strong. We’ve also had the startup thing before with children. People say it gets easier over time. So like, I know that it gets easier with the business, like a little bit. But is if someone has young kids right now, is that really true? I mean, like, do you really think, Hey, those early years are different or is it always kind of just, this is just the new normal
KG (17:35):
Mm-Hmm
RV (18:19):
I’ve not heard, I’ve not heard that one before.
KG (18:21):
RV (19:21):
It’s
KG (19:21):
Relationship, grit, book.com. And there’s an action plan in there.
RV (19:27):
I just texted her that question. So I’m gonna see what she says. Yeah.
KG (19:35):
Yeah. But I’ll tell you yeah.
RV (19:37):
Relation, sorry. Relationship grit,
KG (19:40):
Relationship grit, book,
RV (19:44):
Book.Com.Com. Okay. Yeah, we’ll put it.
KG (19:46):
I have to make sure and ask Daniel if it’s back slash action plan, but
RV (19:51):
Yeah. Daniel Decker, didn’t you meet Daniel Decker at most. Isn’t that how you guys met back to Mo that was,
KG (19:56):
Can you believe this was so long ago? I mean, this was 21 years ago that these guys have been together ride in this energy bus wave that they’ve done. Yeah, I think so. I think he brought his kids in for kitty, the clown night.
RV (20:17):
Well, I I’ll, I, I love that. Shout out to Daniel Decker. I’m we’ve been working closely together on ed by let’s book launch. So I’ve got to know, know him a lot more here recently, but the, okay, so you gotta find ways to communicate. So, so this is the hardest times, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. That makes, makes sense. When does it start to turn? Like what you say that like with kids, Hey, these are the, the hardest times like, cuz I think what makes it so hard is like, I never knew how self-centered I was until I had kids. Like even when I, we got married, I realized, oh, like I’m, you know, I’ve never had to worry about anyone else, but me, but, but when we had kids, it went to a whole nother level where it’s like, I don’t get to sleep.
RV (21:04):
I don’t get to eat. I don’t get to go to the bathroom alone. Like I don’t get to read a book on the weekend. I don’t get to lay on the beach. Like the beach is not a relaxing experience whatsoever with children. Like it, it is, it is the weekends. I’m more physically exhausted on the weekends than I am during the week. And also the battle of, you know, having toddlers and like just trying to communicate with them. So at some point that starts to turn and that’s encouraging to me to hear you say like, look, these are the toughest times. If you can get through this as a team, like you’ll make it through anything. What is that? I kind of feel like that’s happened with Jasper at like four or five years old. It kind of feels like it’s starting to turn the corner a bit.
KG (21:49):
Yeah. You know, I gotta tell you those when they were little. Woo. I’ll never forget a life changing moment for me was the day I was able to sit in the, at the beach in a chair and not have to run after the kids in the water. You know, I, there were little milestones where I’m like, oh my gosh, I can actually sit here. So yes, it just continually continually will improve. But like I said, you know, then you’ll start doing, if they’re in sports, it’s who’s gonna drive them. And the other thing I wanna say, Rory is, you know, you’re two professionals, so you and AJ are both, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re running this company and I have found, I’m gonna say this for the women in general. And I understand why, but a lot more does fall on the mom. It does.
KG (22:44):
It does, even though John was very involved with the kids in a lot of ways, ultimately it’s mom. And so it’s about having that grace for mom. And I always tell this story too. I think it’s really important to compliment, you know, your spouse and just lift them up. So I tell this story that one year when we were really in it, like I, like I say, it was very stressful. John was traveling all the times time. Both the kids were in elite sports and I was traveling all over the place, my kids and I have celiac disease. So we can’t just go to a drive through a McDonald’s and eat. I had to prepare
RV (23:30):
All of you have Celiac’s disease. Yeah.
KG (23:34):
Yeah. Whoa.
RV (23:35):
So
KG (23:35):
It was, it was really hard and I will never forget one day John coming in and he, he was getting ready to head out, you know, on another flight. And he was, had this suit on, he was all clean. He looked so handsome and Rory, I, my hair was disheveled. I’m, you know, trying to get the kids lunches. And I looked over at him and I wanted to cut him down so bad, but I didn’t, I, I, right then I realized it’s because I, I felt bad about myself, but I just thought, you know what? I turned, I looked at him. I said, you look so handsome in that suit and just complimented his face, just lit up. And I, I made a decision from that point on that I was going to compliment him and lift him up Mo at most, when I was feeling the lowest and just do this little test for myself and I’m gotta tell you, it really changed things for me. And so now I always tell couple couples compliment each other. You know, even though you probably wanna kill ’em compliment, ’em, you’ll be surprised how it changes the energy and the dynamic in your relationship together. Yeah. So Rory, you gotta stick it out. You gotta stick it out. It’s hard during these times. So like I said, one of the things is when, when, when they get outta diapers, that’s a big one is Japer outta diapers is Japer your youngest.
RV (25:04):
Liam is our youngest and, and he is out of diapers right now. We happen to be in overnight potty training. So we are waking up, he potty training in the middle of, so during the day, like, it’s, it is mostly he’s good, but we have to get up in the middle of the night to take him to the bathroom and sometimes, you know, change the sheets and all that stuff. But mostly if we wake up in the middle of the night, he’s fine. So like, we’re, we’re getting closer to that. The other thing is like, we went to a hockey game the other night and it was, it was, we got to watch like two thirds of the game before they started going crazy and running around the hallways. But it was like, oh, we’re almost, we can almost watch a whole movie. We can almost watch a whole game.
RV (25:45):
But you know, you, you, I wanna ask you this, Catherine, you mentioned the grace part cuz cuz yeah, it’s been hard on me. Mm-Hmm
KG (26:53):
RV (26:54):
So, so anyways, I, I say all that to say this, you mentioned, you know, give mom grace mm-hmm
KG (27:34):
I, I can’t tell you how many times I would be on the phone at night and you know, you know, complaining dumping on John. And then I’d say, let me guess you’ve got the TV on and you can watch whatever you want right now. Right. I mean, it was hard. I
RV (27:51):
Think. How do we support our wives better in that, in that season?
KG (27:55):
I think exactly by what you just said, supporting your wives, meaning saying exactly the things that you’re saying to me right now and acknowledging to AJ, AJ, I know this is hard for you, you know, I know and acknowledging sometimes, and I’m, I can share this about John and I, John would almost wanna play it down because he, he was almost afraid if he really acknowledged how hard it was that it was gonna somehow change what he was doing. Does that make sense until he realized by actually acknowledging how hard it was for me and asking me, how can I support you? It, it really helped us. And then it didn’t make me look over at him with such, you know, resentment. I was able to, I felt acknowledged. I felt appreciated. Right? And then at the end of the day, I had to say to myself, of course I love my kids.
KG (28:56):
This is what I wanna do for my kids. So it kind of changed, you know, it’s the thing that John always says, like it’s the, the, the get to versus the have to, but it’s the same thing. You know, it kind of changed my paradigm to say, I get to do this, but let me tell you when, when, when you’re getting beaten down, you know, as I think moms do more than, but I hear what you’re saying. When you say Rory, I mean, it’s hard for both of you, but yeah. I think you need to support her number one, by just acknowledging that it is hard
RV (29:29):
And that yeah. I,
KG (29:30):
And that you see her
RV (29:31):
And it’s like the, the, the, the, the dads, at least I could tell her to, let me just speak for myself, but we get beat down too. The difference is we get a break in between the action. Like mom gets no break. It, it is nonstop even in the middle of the night, even if the kids are fine, she’s still waking up, worrying about them and like getting up and having to like, deal with stuff like the laundry, what they’re gonna wear, like whatever, having a, having a fit. You know, I, I think you know, that is, that is helpful about just going, Hey, acknowledge what I hear you saying is just going, like, acknowledge that it’s difficult because it’s, it’s not, it’s not so much that she wants you to do it. She just wants someone to see that she’s doing it.
KG (30:20):
Yeah. It’s not gonna change tho that workload is not gonna change. I mean, yes, you can hire different things, but ultimately it is mom. I mean, it is, mom is, is gonna figure it all out, but it’s really about acknowledging how hard it is. And then how can I support you now? I’m gonna tell you, I encourage couples. If you do have a hard time communicating, if you are hitting a brick wall in some area, there’s nothing wrong with getting some outside help. Sometimes it does take somebody outside of the relationship to coach, you know, coach and help get, get you all to a place of where, you know, you’re, you’re operating smoothly, cuz sometimes, you know, maybe you are so beaten down or, you know, you’re not able to hear it. You’re too defensive. Right. You’ve got the point where you’re, you’re too defensive. So in that case, you know, I highly recommend some coaching or some therapy
RV (31:24):
Mm-Hmm
KG (31:24):
RV (31:36):
Yeah, no, I, I love that. It’s I think it’s super helpful to, for people just almost as a permission thing to be like, Hey, it doesn’t mean you’re failing or that you screwed up or that there’s something wrong with you to get outside. Help. I also love what Jack Canfield says where he says if you do it before, there’s, if you do it before like before there’s an explosion, it’s called coaching. If you do it after there’s an explosion, it’s called therapy, but they’re the same thing. And if you, you know, you probably want to catch it on the front end as much as you can to avoid the it avoid the, the big explosion. Yeah. Kathryn, I love this. This has been so, so helpful. I have one, one last question I wanna ask you before that, where again, where should people go to find you and connect up with what you’re doing and like all, all of this stuff that you’re working on in your personal brand these days? Well,
KG (32:31):
And I also have a podcast called Catherine for real. And you can hear that on Spotify or apple. And my podcast is basically me interviewing people and I’m, I’m getting real. And AJ, your one wonderful wife has really helped me to, to, to clarify more of what I want to give and the type of people I wanna interview going forward. So check that out, Katherine, for real, and you can reach [email protected]. That’s my website. And on the website, you can access my my podcast. You can find me on Instagram, through there at Katherine Gordon. You can email me to reach out and there’s a link to order my book. And I’m gonna tell you something, I’m not just saying this because I wrote the book. I promise you read my book. It’s a quick, easy read, you know, follow the tips in the back, John and I both give 11 tips each on ways to improve your marriage and do the action plan. I, I get so many testimonials all the time from people to tell me it, it saved their marriage. So I’m, I’m not just saying that. I really believe it. If you, if you can, can check that out, read the book. I think it will help. So Rory, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be questioning you. I want you to know that
RV (33:57):
I love it. I love it. So we’ll put links up to Kathryn for real.com. The relationship grit book, the Kathryn for real podcast will link all that in the show notes for y’all. Last question for you, Kathryn. You know, like I think of my mom who was a single mom, which is insane. I mean, she had two of us, two of us that were five years, two boys, five years apart. And how many times she must have felt unseen and like having to, you know, forego her personal dreams and visions and freedom and re relaxation. And now watching AJ do that as a mother, hearing your story. Like I just, I have a, a heartbreak for women who are doing so much and feeling so unseen mm-hmm
KG (35:03):
Mm, well, first I’d say pray, right? I really feel like my prayers and my connection with God has helped me a lot in trying to kind of pulls me outta myself and gives me some perspective. But the other thing I’m gonna say is, is nothing is forever and nothing is permanent. And remembering your why, you know, at the end of the day with my kids, when I would, you know, was running them around and you know, they were playing all these sports and I would, you know, sometimes get resentful. I started to realize like, you know what, I didn’t grow up having a, I had two alcoholic parents that had no interest in anything I was doing, and this was something I wanted to give back to my kids. And so I need to be doing that with love and knowing that one day they’re gonna grow up and one day I won’t have to do that. And so nothing’s permanent. Remember your why and pray?
RV (36:06):
I love it. Katherine Gordon, my friends, you see why we love her so much and make sure you follow her online and go check out her website and everything. Katherine, thank you so much. We wish you all the best. We’re praying for you and John and we’re excited to we’ll see you soon.
KG (36:23):
Thank you, Rory. Thanks for having me.
Ep 294: Keys to Powerful Presentations from My Favorite Hollywood Actress Stephanie Szostak
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. I’m one of your co-hosts here CEO and co-founder of brand builders group. And today I’m so happy because I get to spend the next 45 minutes with one of the most awesome human beings on the planet and also a good friend and probably one of the most discreet, humble humans ever, because she would never tell you all of these amazing accomplishments
AJV (01:47):
But what I want everyone to know is why should you stick around in this conversation? So we’re gonna get to chat with Stephanie show stack today, who is just an incredible human being. But I think some things that you should know that maybe you don’t know, and if you’re not watching this, you clearly can’t see her face. So you may not recognize her name, but you would definitely recognize her face because she has been in some of the top Hollywood movies that are out there, iron man, three devil warriors product. One of the top hit shows on TV, a million little things I could go on and on and on. You have worked with some of the most well known actors and actresses across the world. But to me more importantly is your heart. It’s like you have done awesome things, but you are an amazing human being. And to get to share a little bit of you with our audience today is such an honor and such a treat. So welcome to show Stephanie,
SS (02:46):
Thank you for having me AJ
AJV (02:49):
SS (03:49):
Yes, not, not the traditional way I studied. First of all, I’m from France. I grew up in France and never thought about acting, never took an acting class. I came to the states to study business and to play golf at the college of women, Mary. And once I was done once I graduated, I moved to New York city and worked at Chanel in fashion. And then at 26 years old I just realized there was a little something inside of me that felt like I wasn’t, there was something missing and through a chance opportunity, I did a modeling gig. And then I thought, well, maybe I could be a model and figure out what I, what it is I really wanna do. And so I did that and then at 29 years old, so three years of modeling and then at 29 years old, I took an acting class. Again, I’m not quite sure why I just had this little voice that was like, I wanna take an acting class. I wanna take an acting class. And then there, I realized for the first time in my life, really that I loved something that I needed to do. Something that I, I was passionate about it. And I didn’t know if it was gonna be a profession. I just knew I needed to pursue it.
AJV (05:10):
So first of all, the fact that you pay attention to this little voice, I think says a lot about just a huge part of who you are and something I know from a huge part of our community is that most people feel like they have this calling on their life and they feel like they have this message within them. They feel like there’s this thing that they really wanna do, but for whatever reason, they don’t listen to that little voice. They don’t listen to that prompting. They push it down, they shove it away, lock it in a drawer and keep on with everyday life. So what was it about this that made you go, this is not a little voice I’m going to ignore. I’m gonna do something.
SS (05:51):
I think it’s curiosity. I, I don’t think, you know, right away I’m gonna do something. I’m gonna make a big move because that’s scary, but it’s just curiosity and just making one more step in that direction and exploring and being opened to whatever and also surround being surrounded by people who support those choices, I think is a huge one. And I’m really lucky you know, to be married to somebody who’s always supported that, that sense of adventure and yeah, go for it. Try it out.
AJV (06:31):
Yeah. I think, I think something you just said there, like really resonates is just being curious and it’s willing to go. Yeah. Like I don’t know everything and that’s okay. Even if this doesn’t work out, that’s okay. Even if it’s only one time that’s okay. But being adventurous and curious enough to even try.
SS (06:50):
Yeah. And throughout your whole life, like even now, you know, 20, some years later, just staying curious and not pigeon holding, is that the pigeonholing yes. Yourself into, oh, I’m an actor that I can’t do this because that would not fit now. Just be like, why not?
AJV (07:11):
SS (07:53):
Just, I, I, there’s an exercise that somebody had me do that I love and it’s called the impossible future. And it’s a great brainstorming exercise for all of your life. And so if there was no ops, the exercise is this. If there were no obstacles, no money obstacle, no nothing. What would be your impossible future and be as detailed as possible with your professional life personal life. And then once you describe it, how do you feel? And I think that’s the key point. Like you know, because maybe at first it’s outcomes and successes, but then why, how does that make me feel? And I think that will give for me when I did this, it helped me figure out what it is I was after really it brought clarity. And then after that, you’re like, okay, what’s the first thing I can do right now to go towards this. And it’s less daunting cuz you’re not chasing an outcome that is, you know, so far fetched, you’re just pursuing trying to be in alignment with what you’re striving for, to feel in your life.
AJV (09:10):
Yeah. And I think that’s really in line with a huge part of the calling on your life is to help other people kind of like find their truth. Right. Mm-hmm
SS (09:59):
SS (10:59):
Don’t judge yourself, accept it all and, and then move from there towards what you wanna do. But and your question was how do you stay true to yourself by playing other characters? Yeah, I think that can also be confusing at the beginning of my acting career. I certainly had a little bit of trouble sometimes, you know, drawing the line between reality and, and art. Because when you invest into a character, you can lose yourself a little bit in the character. But I think experience helps and being a mom and having kids really helps because you come home and, and there’s reality for you.
AJV (11:41):
SS (11:43):
But also when you talked about a brand, so it’s interesting cuz as an I, I worked with you and you were incredible at helping me actually figure out a message and or maybe if I even had a message, which I was not sure about, and I don’t really see it as having a brand or pursuing a brand or trying to put a brand out there for me, it’s more more clarifying my path or refining it and being curious and then bringing alignment between all of these facets of my life. And then you help me be like, there’s the brand, but I don’t, I don’t think of it that way, if that makes sense. So it’s more about staying in alignment personally with all the different facets of my life. And then if there is a brand at the end of the day, great
AJV (12:43):
SS (13:08):
Connection. Yeah.
AJV (13:09):
Connection. And helping people feel wanted and feeling a part of something. Right. And a huge part of that. That is your story of coming from another country. And I think there there’s a challenge and most people think, well, there’s just, I just do too many different things, but most of us all have a through line. If we just sit down and take a little bit of extra fine tuning work to connect the dots to make together. And so let’s, I wanna talk about two things, cuz I know that I could easily spend the next 25 minutes just picking your brain on all these curious things that I have for you. But there’s two really significant things that I think you’re gonna bring a ton of value and insight for, into our audience. And so the first one has to do with your profession, right?
AJV (13:59):
You’re an actor and incredible one at that. I love getting to watch you on screen and now that I know you, I go back and I’m like, I know this person it’s such a treat for me to get to see you in your element. I love that. But one of the things is that so many of the people that listen to our podcast and are part of our, our community they present in some fashion, right? They’re making content videos on social media or they’re a professional speaker or they’re an aspiring speaker or they’re doing interviews for the media or maybe it’s even just presenting to their, their team or their company. And so I think it would be really awesome to go, what are some, you know, tips of the trade of being powerful in front of other people or being powerful on the screen to connect with people and engage with people and draw them in emotionally. So what do you got for us? What are tips of the
SS (14:55):
Trip? Hmm. Okay. So, you know, as an actor, you can work from the outside in or the inside out. So because the outside in is your wardrobe. So let’s start with that.
SS (15:58):
And I had a sweater on because I’m home and I, you know, we do all this at home. And then I was like, no, I feel sloppy with my, no, I need, I’m gonna put a blazer.
SS (17:08):
So adding images, subtext, be behind the words make, bringing yourself to it as much as you can be bringing your authenticity. And then having an objective that is bigger than yourself is big for enacting. And I think it transfers to people in life when we are trying to communicate something, we’re all nervous. We all are thinking of the outcome we want, but let’s have a bigger purpose. What is our why? And then when you’re, if you’re connecting to that, then it’s like, oh, you know, you, you, you bring something bigger and you connect. I think, I think it transcends just you and whatever you’re saying.
AJV (17:58):
Yeah. I know. You said two things there I think are potentially so simple that they’re overlooked, but are really, really significant. And I totally relate to what you said around I’m sure there’s been millions of people who’ve said that, but it’s like the way you dress actually impacts the way you represent yourself, that the way you stand, the way you walk, how you feel it’s like, Mmm. For probably 90% of today I had on my workout gear.
SS (19:06):
AJV (19:06):
Yes. I, I love that. I think that’s, especially in a time over the last two and a half years where so many people have been home for way too long. And perhaps not pulling out every day real outside of the house clothes. Right. Like, I’m pretty sure I had a six month stint where all I wore was work, all clothes. I’m pretty sure it was like six months. And there came a time where I’m like, good Lord. I have all these clothes. I should probably put them on. Right. And it was amazing. Like when I started dressing up, my husband was like, are you going somewhere?
SS (19:42):
That’s what my hu my husband, I would come down. He’d be like, where are you going? And I was like, I’m sick of feeling like that
AJV (19:49):
SS (20:29):
Yes. And, and, and there’s a power in images. Mm-Hmm
AJV (21:11):
I think that’s so important. And for someone who literally does this in front of a screen, right in front of cameras, for anyone who’s listening, who makes a content video or does a podcast, right? It’s like, you’re doing that for an audience of no one it’s literally you and a computer screen. So you almost have to tap into it even more for it to come across in a way that would draw someone in and be engaging. Otherwise it can really just feel like a talking head on a screen. And although the words have a lot of content and information and motivation without the delivery of it, we probably won’t last, very long listening.
SS (21:52):
Right. Exactly.
AJV (21:54):
Oh, I love that.
SS (21:54):
And I, and I think practicing if you’re, you know, if you’re preparing or, or it would, it’s an interesting exercise also to do it with different stim, like memories and you can see, oh, it’s very different when I think of this, as opposed to when I think of that.
AJV (22:12):
Oh, that’s interesting. Well, I think to that, it’s like practice actually practice your practice art
SS (22:18):
Practice, and then let go,
AJV (22:21):
SS (23:05):
But yes, for me, I can only speak for me, but, and I do think we all are different. Some of us need to prepare, prepare, prepare, and some of us are like, you’re incredible. I remember when we worked together, I just told you a story and you were like, okay, this is how it’s gonna go. And you just came up with, you know, how you would say it. And it was, I, I was amazed. I need to prepare if I don’t prepare, I’m lost. I prepare so much way too much
SS (24:00):
And I was able to be like, oh, this is, you know, re readjust some things I didn’t like, I would practice out of order my keynote. And then in the shower, I mean, in the shower driving randomly, I’d be like, okay, what’s this portion and just come up with it. And then the great thing for me about practicing when I’m either driving or in the shower, in those moments where you are not you can’t get out of wherever, you know, your box, your car or your shower is things. Things come into my mind and I’m like, ah, new things come into my mind. And I’m like, Ooh, I need to add this. I need to add that.
AJV (24:43):
I love that. You know, one of the things that I remember, oh my gosh, this is so long ago now. Maybe 17 years ago. I don’t know. It was a long time ago. Let’s just say 15 years plus
SS (25:56):
That’s I love that. I do that with, you know, when I listen to a podcast or listen, more of messages that I hear, and I’m like, I wanna remember that. But you’re talking about stories happening and that’s great. I love that
AJV (26:14):
Because I find for me, I dunno, that’s so good. I dunno if it’s just my mom brain or what, but if I don’t write it down, however impactful, it is seven days from now. I will not remember. Like, it just like, it just like evaporates from my, my brain and as the mom of a two year old and a five year old, at least 10 fascinating things happen every day.
SS (27:06):
I everything’s an art. Yes.
AJV (27:09):
It’s like, I want people to be drawn into my speeches, the way that I’m drawn into your movies. Mm-Hmm,
SS (27:21):
An emotional, an emotional arc. Yeah. To all relate to the person.
AJV (27:26):
I mean, I think that’s so much of it. It’s like, you’ve gotta like really live into the character and create those, create those emotions. It’s a, I don’t know if I’ve ever sat through a speech and said, have to watch it again, have to see again, right. Like we do in the movie because there’s, there’s drama and there’s humor. And there’s, you fall in love with characters or you hate characters. I bet you, you, you get enthralled in it. I can’t think of any keynote speech where I’m like, have to see it again right now. I’ll pay another admission. I don’t think I’ve ever said that, but I would love to find a way for people to start feeling that way about seeing people speak as they do about watching a Hollywood movie. Right. so I love that ability of how do we create that same amount of connection into speaking as you do into creating movies.
AJV (28:17):
So, all right. I’m gonna switch gears just a little bit, cause I’m watching the clock and I’m going, oh my gosh, we only have seven more minutes.
SS (28:59):
So our boob stories I was inspired one day when I was on set. My character had been taken the sexy route, which means in Hollywood that you know, I was wearing short dresses, padded bras, and stuffed bras. And not that big boobs are not sexy. I think they’re really sexy, but I, I don’t have big boobs. And I was like, gosh, I wonder what it’s like for young girls to grow up nowadays. And then I thought there’s a lot of talk out there about body image, body acceptance, and there’s no talk about boobs. And I thought, this is ridiculous. Don’t tell me we don’t think about our boobs because obviously we do. And so I wrote a poem with a friend of mine instead of being called, oh, the places you’ll go. It was called about, it was called, oh, the you’ll grow.
SS (29:49):
And it was about the ups and downs of boobs of life through our boob stories. And people started telling me when I would share the poem with them they started telling me about their boob stories and it was funny and touching and moving and sometimes tragic. And I thought, oh my gosh, that is actually a beautiful something that I want to collect. And I don’t know where this project is gonna go. But the, I think the reason is really, I would love to have something created, maybe a book for all young girls to read, you know, the ups and downs through the ages from budding to sagging that we all are insecure, that we all go through moments of the challenging moments, whether it be with nursing or cancer or so many things. There’s milestones that we go through in our lives in those milestones shape our us and our boobs. A lot of times, you know, sexuality and, and puberty motherhood, aging cancer. So right now I’m collecting boob stories. If you have a boob story, please go to Instagram at our boob stories and share your story.
AJV (31:16):
I love this so much. And clearly I know a ton of the background. I’ve read it, I’ve seen the pictures and the reason I wanted to bring it up is for two reasons, one it’s you listening to that inkling again, is you listening and you paying attention of, I see something here. I’m going to make the move
SS (32:47):
Yeah. And, and beyond that, and this is my overreaching message is really about acceptance and accepting what life throws at us with grace and compassion. And this is not something against getting a boob job or like just accepting, owning to who we are. And, you know, I want a boob job. I get a boob job and I own it. And this, this is how it makes how I feel better. But really about letting our light shine through the boob stories.
AJV (33:17):
SS (34:11):
Love, love for all the people around me and bringing love, giving love
AJV (34:20):
You do that.
SS (34:52):
Yeah, because you know, I just went to visit my son in college and when my husband and I drove BA were going back home, I, I kind of had a little bit of bad feeling. I was like, well, if our life ends right now, you know, we’ve done. Okay. Like, look at the love, look at we’re bringing up in two boys who have love and then the love around us. And so, yeah, I think love is a big, big thing.
AJV (35:21):
Ah, that’s so good. Okay. Only two questions left. I promise. So here’s the next one? What is something about Stephanie show stack that most people don’t know, but you wish they did know.
SS (35:34):
Oh, I eat any meat with bones. I will clean it. Clean beyond clean I’ll yeah.
AJV (35:43):
Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Meat eater, meat eater, meat
SS (35:47):
Eater.
AJV (35:49):
I would not have guessed to be honest. I would, that
SS (35:52):
Sounds naughty. I like it too.
AJV (35:55):
It’s like, I would not have guessed that if you were to ask me, I’d be like, she’s probably vegan. She’s probably like a lot of vegetables
SS (36:04):
But, but I’ll eat a rack, a rack of ribs, like I’ll clean the bones, you know, beyond clean. Awesome.
AJV (36:11):
That’s awesome. Alright. Last, all right. Last last question that I have for you is what would, what piece of advice, or even if it’s not advice, one piece of hope or inspiration, like what’s one thing that you would share to people out there. Who, again, they’re not quite sure what to do next, but they, they know they wanna do something different. They kind of feel like you did back in your twenties when you’re like, man, this just isn’t what I wanna be doing. There’s gotta be something else. What would you advice or encouragement? What would you say to them to help them make that next leap or make that next jump?
SS (36:56):
Self exam, self examination, like do the work. And I know I wasn’t ready to do it till I was in my forties. So it’s a lot of work, but just learn about yourself, figure out we all know what we’re about. We just, it’s hard to remember it because we get distracted. We get sidetracked, life throws us curves, and then we lose the path. But if we take a little bit of time and journal and there’s a lot of exercises out there that will help self-examine and figure out what your guiding principles are, what your values are that will help realize, oh, thi this is what I want my life to be about. And I think when you have a bigger objective, bigger meaning than what you wanna do, next becomes very clear and simplified.
AJV (37:57):
Mm. I love that. It’s self inspection self-reflection but getting to know yourself, mm-hmm,
SS (38:04):
AJV (38:22):
So it’s a re getting to know yourself. Mm-Hmm
SS (39:01):
Yeah. And how do I want sometimes, I mean, it’s such a, who am I, you know, the question of a lifetime, but what do I want to feel in life? What do I want to feel? And that, and why? And I think then you can say, well, what are my actions? Are they helping me feel that way?
AJV (40:17):
That’s good. You’ve got your code of arms and then your code of harms.
SS (40:21):
Yes.
AJV (40:22):
Yeah. I love that. And I know,
SS (40:23):
I love that
AJV (40:24):
You’re really into self development and it shows like you’re, you’re C full of different exercise and examples and stories. And I think that’s a huge part of a Testament of a great reminder to all of us. It’s like, if we don’t investigate who we are, then how would we expect to know? Like no wonder, we all feel confused and aren’t happy and sitting here going, how did I get here? It’s like, because we didn’t have direction. Right.
SS (40:51):
We didn’t, we need a compass, a compass. And then, yeah. So do, if you have your values, if you have your principles, your daily controllables, then that is, that can serve as a compass for every decision making. And, and
AJV (41:09):
I love that. I can easily continue just chatting and asking you tons of questions. Thank you so much for coming on the show and just sharing a little bit of your brilliance and who you are. And this has been such a treat such an honor. And I’ll put this in the show the show notes for everyone. But if you’re out there listening and you wanna connect with Stephanie, go to Stephanie show, stack.com. I know you’re gonna spell it wrong. Dot me, dot me, get it wrong. Stephanie show.me. We just had a conversation about that. But also I know most people are gonna spell that wrong. So it’s Stephanie S Z O S T a K, do me. I will put that in the show notes. And then if you do have a boob story go to our boob stories on Instagram, share your story, Stephanie, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Thank you, AJ. You’re the best
AJV (42:04):
Ep 292: How to Read People with Vanessa Van Edwards
RV (00:02):
Vanessa van Edwards. I met her, we shared the stage together at GLS global leadership summit. She was awesome. She got amazing feedback, you know, from close friends and clients, people that I love and trust. I started following her, checking out what she’s into and the more I get to meet her, the more I think she’s just awesome. She’s got great content. We’re gonna talk about, we’re gonna talk about that a little bit today. So she has a new book out called cues. So her first book was called captivate. The science of succeeding with people it’s translated into 16 languages. She’s had more than 50 million people watch her videos on YouTube and her Ted talk. She has a massive YouTube channel, hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Mm-Hmm
VVE (01:08):
Thank you so much for having me. It’s so great to be back with you and talk about everything. You know, I love a cue. You send good cues, worry. I love your
RV (01:16):
Cues. You do. Oh, what is okay. Tell us. Okay. So tell us cues, tell us about the, so this is the new book and yes. And everything you do is basically science backed communication skills ish, right?
VVE (01:29):
Oh man. That’s it. That’s it. So, yes. So I’m a recovering awkward person. So I learn social skills and communication with black and white formulas blueprints. I like to lay it out. And so this journey for this book, so a queue is a social signal, human sent to each other. I never thought I would write this book. I never thought I would write it. This was a, a secret science that I was embarrassed about. Like it started off for my own use. And I’ll tell you the moment it started. So 17 years ago, I was in my, the peak of my awkward stage and I was watching Lance Armstrong on Larry King live. And Larry King asked Lance Armstrong, have you ever DOD? Now spoiler alert. Lance was doping. But in this interview he told a flat out outline. He said, Nope, I’ve never DOD.
VVE (02:16):
And then right after he said it, he did a lip purse. He pressed his lips into a firm line. Hmm. He pressed his lips down together. And I remember watching that interview and thinking, what was that? Like? My spy sense knew something was off, but that specific cue, I didn’t even know it was called the queue back then says, what was that? So I began to look in the research. What is that body language gesture. It turns out that is a universal sign of withholding. When humans wanna hold something back or keep it together or keep it in liars often do it. They press their lips together. We press their lip together to say, don’t say it don’t get yourself in
RV (02:49):
Trouble. Interesting. Interesting. I
VVE (02:51):
Was like, what? And so I started to see this lip purse on people, in shame, people in people who were lying. And I wondered, okay, what if we could study humans? Like we study foreign languages where we break down behavior into specific cues, into our trust cues, our power cues, our danger zone cues, our trust, our, our charisma cues. And that’s exactly what this book was. I was spent the last 17 years cataloging all these queues, seeing if we could learn to speak them.
RV (03:25):
So
VVE (03:33):
Yes.
RV (03:33):
Are they all physical? I mean, are, is that like, like, will you, cause when you say study it like a language, you know, when I hear like science back communication, a lot of times it’s like your voice and your, you know, you’re you’re but are these like more like gestures conscious or subconscious gestures?
VVE (03:49):
That’s a great question. So in the beginning it started off as all gestures. I was like, okay, nonverbal, right? Facial expression, gestures, posture, movement, eyebrow raises. Right. But then I realize, and the research actually backs us up as well is there’s actually different ways that we sh broadcast our cues. There’s four of them. So the first one is non-verbal and that’s actually the biggest 60 to 90% of our communication is non-verbal. And when I say that, people are always shocked. But think about, if someone were to say that they were fine, I’m fine. And hold like a really angry face. You would know they were not fine. In other words, we give more weight it’s nonverbal. So that’s the biggest one. The second one is vocal. So how we deliver our birds words, our pace, our cadence, our volume, our pitch. So how we say our words is just important as what we say, the third one is verbal.
VVE (04:35):
So the actual words we we use, of course, that’s how we communicate lots of cues and the hidden signals in our words. And I have a whole chapter on sort of the secret things you can find out about someone’s charisma, simply based on the words they use in emails. And the last one, the one that’s forgotten is imagery. The colors we wear the props in our background, what we’re carrying in our profile photo even personality, even fonts have personality. The props that we use and jewelry wear. So imagery is the last small one.
RV (05:04):
Mm-Hmm
VVE (05:14):
Right now you’re you just got
RV (05:16):
Nervous, not fixing my hair. You
VVE (05:17):
Just got nervous. I saw
RV (05:19):
It cause you’re reading me
VVE (05:21):
Well a little bit. I can’t help it once. So this is a blessing and a curse. I will warn you. I should actually, I thought about having a warning at the beginning of the book and my publisher said no, which was that these cues, once you see them, you cannot unsee them.
RV (06:23):
A second. Don’t me break me down. Break me down sister.
VVE (06:26):
Okay. Let’s do it. So the reason why highly charismatic people are so charismatic is because they are purposefully sending off very positive cues of two traits. And this is exactly what the researchers found. Highly charismatic people have the perfect blend of warmth and competence that when we’re interacting
RV (06:44):
With competence with a
VVE (06:45):
P competence with a P not confidence, that’s, that’s, that’s a,
RV (06:49):
Yeah, that’s a big distinction. That’s an important distinction. It’s
VVE (06:51):
A really important thing. It’s not confidence. It’s competence. In other words, really highly charismatic. People are at the very same time, warm, open, collaborative, trustworthy, likable, but at the same time, they’re also competent, powerful, efficient, impressive, and productive. And the reason for that is because we like people who answer the two questions. Can I trust you? And can I rely on you? And so when I first met you, you were broadcasting. I think you might do it subconsciously. Cause since you haven’t read, I haven’t cues just came out. So I don’t think you read that one yet, is that you naturally are picking these cues that are both trustworthy and very competent, which makes me want to talk to you, engage with you, makes me wanna level up with you. And that’s because when we’re around care about people, we wanna catch that charisma. We like to, we feel like it rubs off on us too.
RV (07:43):
So what are some of the cues let’s talk about? Buying signals. Okay. Yeah. So if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a personal brand. You may be a CPA or financial advisor, real estate mortgage, or maybe you’re a coach and you’re, you know, trying to go like, is this person ready to buy? Like those are classic cues. And that’s, you know, the world we came from was, is sales. And that’s part of it probably where I developed this, these learning queues is I knocked on, I knocked on over 20,000 doors. Like I did five years of knocking on doors. Right? So you, you pick up some of these things. What, what can I look for that tells me that somebody’s ready to buy, they’re ready to book me for the interview. They’re ready to buy my, my keynote or buy my book or buy my service or what, what am I looking for?
VVE (08:31):
Okay. So before we even get to that, I’m gonna make a really big statement, which is starts with a corny metaphor, which is that very, very brilliant people have, are it’s impossible for them to share their ideas if they have bad cues. And the way that I think about this as a metaphor is that if your ideas are a car, cues are a gas and this is the problem with really smart entrepreneurs, really smart business people is they have great ideas, a great product, a great service, and they cannot get it to move. They literally cannot get the gas for that car. And that is because really smart people rely too much on their ideas. I think. Well, my idea is great. I don’t have to worry about how I talk about it, cuz the idea is so good that it will just speak for itself.
VVE (09:11):
That does not work. Our ideas have to have cues deal to communicate. And so the very first thing that we think about before you even look for buying signals, which we can talk about is you need to make sure your website, your LinkedIn profile, your social media profile pictures, all are signaling or broadcasting, warmth and competence, your digital first impression when someone Googles you or they look at your LinkedIn profile, they look at your website. I actually count on our website, how many warmth and competence queues we have. I’ll give you a really basic example of how this works. Warmth are things that create the warm and fuzzies for us. Their stories they’re relatable, they’re likable. Competence are data, research, numbers, proof recommendations. So Casper mattress is one case study that I like to use. Cause it’s very, very easy way to think about this.
VVE (10:00):
Cause the reason I think that Casper blew up, I mean literally just destroyed the mattress market is not only because they have a great mattress. There’s been a lot of great matches in the past. But remember that’s like having a really good idea, not knowing how to share it. If you look at Casper’s website, they have the perfect balance of warmth sales cues and competent sales queues. Their tagline is obsessively engineered at outrageous comfort. Those are two. So talking about words, right words can also be warm and competent, competent words make us wanna do things. They make us wanna achieve things. Warm words make us feel good. So obsessively engineered are two competent cues. We like things that have a lot of research done, balanced with outrageous comfort and that makes us feel good. So their tagline is the perfect balance of warm and competent.
VVE (10:50):
If you go down their website, you’ll see pictures of kids jumping on beds, warm proof of our Casper labs with guys in lab coats, competent quote from Vogue about how your bed is your new desk. Funny, warm research, five stars, right from consumer reports, competent, warm clouds and pictures of people sleeping, warm comp like right? So you literally all the way down the website, you see this perfect balance that is tingling something deep inside of us as humans of I can trust this brand and I can rely on this brand. Does that make sense? That kind of breakdown.
RV (11:31):
Totally. Yeah. I mean that, that, that’s fascinating, right? I mean, if you’re gonna hire somebody, I mean, even if you think about how am I gonna, if I’m gonna hire someone to do a job, it’s like, can they do the job and am I gonna like working with them? Like it’s pretty much, what else is there? Are they gonna do a great job? And am I, are they not gonna annoy me? And like, you know, are they gonna, are they gonna be reliable and dependable and, and yes. And show up? I think that’s, I think that’s really fascinating. So, you know, cause that would translate to hiring. And so, you know, the way I process what you just said in the, in, in the reverse of, of sales is to go, what can I do to make myself more attractive in what I’m selling is, is go. So if I’m talking, then that means I’m using customer testimonials and stories and our purpose and our why. And then the competence is like how many clients we’ve worked with and the results we’ve achieved. And the testimonials
VVE (12:25):
Got five star test, five star testimonials all the media outlets, right? Like, so even my bio, right? You read that at the very start that if you count the number of warm and competent queues, you’ll find a perfect balance. So like science to people, my company’s name is very competent. I did that on purpose because I know women tend to default to higher and warmth. That’s just a, a, a basic gender difference. And so I knew that I had to use, I have to use a little more data, a little more research, a little more science to sort of balance out that natural aspect of who I am. So science of people, then the media logos, the media mentions, those are competent helping people that’s warm. Right. So exactly. As you mentioned, you’re balancing that out on the queues side for your buyers. So there’s two sides of queues, decoding and encoding. We’ve been talking about encoding, the signals you’ve sent to others. What’s just as important though, is decoding making sure you’re spotting the right queues in your, in your folks. Here’s my favorite sales queue where I would say customer report queue. If we don’t even say sales, which is the lower lid flex, I know this is a really weird one, but the lower lid flexes, we harden our lower lids as if we’re like swinging to see something better. Just your lower lids. There you go.
RV (13:33):
Your lower eyelids,
VVE (13:34):
Lower eyelid. Yeah. So if you, so if you try to see something across the room, you’ll harden, your lower lids. This is a natural biological response. And what research has found, the reason all humans do this across genders and cultures and races is because when we’re trying to see more detail, our lids close to block out the light, to see more detail, they found that when people are listening and their brain just went from listening to doubting or listening to scrutinizing are lower. Lids will flex as if our body’s going. I don’t know about that. This is the single biggest missed queue in sales. If you were on video call or you were in person, you’re going through your pitch, you’re sharing your great idea and you see that lower lid, flex pause, stop and ask questions. Does that make sense? Does that all good? You know, let me explain something else here. How’s that sound to you? You are going to get right in that moment. Any doubt, the biggest problem for sales folks are entrepreneurs is they don’t realize why they didn’t get the job. You know, they, they think it went well, they leave. And they’re like, why didn’t I get the job? Why didn’t they say yes, it’s probably because you missed that little lower lid flex. It’s signaled literally a, a, a Twitch in their brain that went, I dunno about that.
RV (14:47):
So you’re saying that that is a sign of skepticism.
VVE (14:51):
Yes. It’s a sign of,
RV (14:52):
So like when you focus, it’s like, you know, it’s like a side eye,
VVE (14:57):
It’s a side eye. It’s like, so yes. And it’s also it’s right before skepticism. So the nice thing about it is it just means intensity intense focus. So if you stop and you address it, you can actually prevent a future. No. Or skepticism from coming. We in our lab, we analyzed, you know, the show
RV (15:14):
Shows, I love that. That’s really, that’s really huge and important.
VVE (15:18):
It’s so powerful. It’s so powerful. And you see it now, you’ll see it all the time. You can see it on video too, which is amazing.
RV (15:22):
It’s like I critical, but I’m not yet skeptical. But if I catch you, if I catch you while you’re critical, I can win you back.
VVE (15:31):
There you go. Exactly. Right. So we saw this on we an I love the show shark tank, which is a show obviously where me
RV (15:37):
Too.
VVE (15:38):
I love, love that show. So we analyzed 495 shark tank pitches. It was thousands and thousands of hours of data looking for patterns. Was there things that successful entrepreneurs did in the tank that were more likely to get them a deal? And we noticed, and again, we’re, we’re looking at the show and you see a lot of cut footage, but on shark tank, the successful entrepreneurs would spot a shark, hardening their lower lids and then address their concern. Right? Kevin, you know, I see that you’re skeptical. Let me bring up some more data for you or Laurie. You know, I know this is a surprise for you, but here’s what we’re planning. We really wanna work with you. They were a dynamic on their feet, the worst pictures. And I, I talk about this a lot in the book. I break down Jamie Simoff shark tank pitch who pitched ring in the tank.
VVE (16:23):
So ring is a billion dollar company. He pitched ring in the shark tank and it completely bombed. This is what’s critically important is Jamie. Simoff had a billion dollar idea, right? Amazon acquired it for a billion dollars. Richard Branson invested Shaq invested, but he went on shark tank with this brilliant billion dollar idea. And it totally bombed that is because our ideas cannot stand by themselves. He delivered it so poorly without competence and warmth cues that everyone was out. And a couple years later, he came back into this shark tank as a, as an investor. So what happened in that pitch is he actually gave away all of his competence and warmth. He wanted his idea to speak for itself. But even though this company had amazing numbers and amazing growth, they could not buy into the idea because his cues were so bad.
RV (17:10):
What are some of the other common cues let’s go back to end coding. So what are the other common mistakes that people send? Like you might be on a first date, you might be trying to make a sales call. You might be trying to, you know, get a job.
VVE (17:24):
Let’s talk about what Jamie’s seminar should have done. Right? So like this is his pitch is so demonstrative. So end coding on the end coding side, the very first few words out of your mouth. So that could be hello. That could be, my name is Rory. That could be so good to see you. Okay. So the first 10 words out of your mouth are incredibly important for your vocal. First impression we are listening for confidence cues. I do say confidence with an F confidence. That is because when we hear someone who’s anxious, we don’t wanna catch it. And so we’re in the first 10 seconds, we’re listening for any vocal anxiety. The biggest way we give away our vocal anxiety is we use the question inflection on a statement. So Jamie’s seminar. He way he did this is he entered the tank where he knocked on the door.
VVE (18:08):
So he closed the doors to the tank and he knocked on the door cause he was trying to show like a doorbell. So he knocked on the door and his first line was this it’s Jamie here to pitch. So the question inflections, we go up at the end of our sentence, as if we’re asking a question, the problem is, is research has found this when people hear the question, inflection mistakenly used on a statement. My name is Vanessa. It’s Jamie here to pitch our brain goes from listening to scrutinizing. In other words, we know, wait a minute, something wasn’t right about that. So the most important thing you can do is in the first 10 seconds in person on the phone in video is go down at the end of your sentence. So it’s so good to see you. My name is Vanessa, and I’m really excited to pitch you this idea today, that’s downward, right? I’m keeping my words down. It actually signals high confidence. If I said, my name is Vanessa, I’m here to pitch. So happy to be here today. No, like you would know, I don’t want you don’t your brain doesn’t know why, but you know, you don’t like it.
RV (19:10):
Mm-Hmm
RV (20:02):
It’s like, they’re an expert on something and they get lost in, oh, it has to be beautiful and perfect. Where do I get a graphic designer and a video editor? And it’s like, you’re such a great example of like deliver the goods, add values to people’s lives, do it consistently a few basic things. So I love that. How do you do book launches? I’m curious about this because your books have done really, really well. And, and we do a lot of big launches, right. And we’ve done for our own books, big launches, but the thing that really makes the career, I mean, it helps to hit the New York times for sure. But what really makes the career is when you can have that book, you know, or books that sell 500 units every week, a thousand units. I mean, if, if you’re, if you’re, you know, if you’re lucky, you’ll, you’ll write, you know, John Gordon’s energy bus or Patrick, you know, Len’s five dysfunctions of a team and he’ll sell 2000 units, 5,000 units every week. But you know, like Ryan holiday is another person who’s done a great job of this. Like he, he does good launches, but it’s like, it’s not really about the launch. He sells 800 book, 800 units every week of all of his titles and you know, there’s spikes of course. And you’re you do that? And I love that. How do you do that?
VVE (21:19):
Yes. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you for, by way, for the kind words. So captivate came out in 2017. We had a nice, really big launch. I think we remember four on the wall street journalist. And since then, even, you know, five, six years later, we sell about 300, 600 copies a week and that, you know, amazing doesn’t include our spikes, right? Like sometimes we have spikes from events. Queues is doing extremely well, even better than captivate. We’re seven weeks out from that, but it’s still selling extremely well, probably a thousand or more a week. So the way that I like think about this is very weird. I have a very weird approach to this, which is YouTube is a search engine. And what I mean by that is people put YouTube in a social media category. It is not social media. It is a search engine, meaning people are not only going into YouTube and searching their needs.
VVE (22:07):
Google is also serving up YouTube as an answer to their needs. So for this reason, we think about, okay, who is our ideal person? Our ideal person is an incredibly brilliant professional entrepreneur, entrepreneur, both male and female. We literally have almost exactly split usually around 30 to 55. Okay. So I know my person, they’re really smart. They’re trying to level up their career. They’ve often been held back by some communication or soft skill. Okay. I know that person is what we do is we do specific keyword research and a reps. That’s the service we use. It’s like a software you can use. I think there’s a couple different ones out there.
RV (22:41):
Yeah. MOS or yeah, there’s a whole bunch of them. Yeah. Suggests et cetera. But AHS is, I think, I think that’s what our team uses too.
VVE (22:49):
A has a secret tab. It’s not so secret. Cause I’m about to tell you about it, which is most people use a for Google, we use a for YouTube. So I will go in the YouTube tab and I will search at first, first I think about what are the 50 to 20 keywords or search phrases. I think people are gonna use to get to a book. So for cues, I, you know, we, I started writing cues over two years ago. The very first thing I did is, okay, cues are about reading people, breaking down behavior, communication, charisma, right. I made a whole list of all those terms short and long. And then I had my writing team begin to pump out articles and especially video scripts for me on those specific keywords so that I can already come up for what I know my people are searching for and then serve them really helpful content, like really helpful, like free content, but then also the book. So before queues even came out, we were ranking one, two or three in those big spots for our YouTube videos, the articles are actually less important than the YouTube videos so that when someone is in YouTube and they search charismatic conversation or how to make small talk,
RV (23:57):
How, yeah. How to be more charismatic, like
VVE (23:59):
Ex exactly our videos come up and on the back end of the video, I’m selling the book and the bottom of the video, I’m selling the book. And so I think that every single entrepreneur, it doesn’t matter what you do. You should have a YouTube presence. And by the way, I don’t work for YouTube. I don’t teach YouTube courses. I don’t teach you how to sell on YouTube. So I had no reason to recommend this because I, I actually, it hurts me the more people who come on YouTube, but I feel so passionate about it because whatever your product service book is, if YouTube is a search engine, you have to have a presence on there for your top 50 keywords, because that’s a way that you’re gonna be able to drive people to your product or service. That is exactly how we sell books.
RV (24:38):
I mean, that is so brilliant. And, and, and, and simple, like simple because cuz I, we understand search engine optimization. We understand, you know, even like YouTube optimization, but just the idea of putting your book on there. And you said you put your book at the, at the back of the video and on the bottom. I, and I, I think you’re, you’re saying literally there’s like a, a, an ads, a buy button. Yeah,
VVE (25:04):
We literally, so at the, so first of all, just to get really into tactics is typically our videos will our videos around 10, 20 minutes an average, but you should have, you should mention your book organically or your service organically, ideally in the first third or half of the video. So while I’m teaching, while I’m getting highly valuable, really engaging tips, I never want someone to click on a video and feel like it was a waste of their time. Some point in the first third or half of the video, I will say, and all this research comes from queues. Be sure to check out on an Amazon or an audible. And then I keep delivering, keep delivering in the description of the video. I have not only a link to the Amazon on the audible, but I also, we use a plugin in YouTube. It has a little by mech shelf.
VVE (25:44):
So on our little by mech shelf below every video, actually, we don’t do it for every video. We only do it for videos that directly sell our books. I have cap date. I have queues. I have people school, our big master course. So it’s right below the video. And at the very end, I put a little promo to our book where I’m like, Hey, if you like these tips, check out cues, check out captivate, give this video a light, give a subscribe. I’ll be putting out free content every Wednesday. So that way there’s a couple of mentions. And what I found is I either get a subscribe because I’m delivering good content or they literally go go by the book.
RV (26:16):
You said there’s a, you’re using a plugin in the description.
VVE (26:20):
I am. Yes. It’s a special plugin. It’s QA. Y a I dunno how to say ITA, Chaya, Kaya. I don’t know QA. Y a but it’s a, it’s a plugin that we literally enabled for YouTube that adds a merch shelf, which is like another, that a lot of people, a merch shelf. Yeah. You can sell anything on there. So like if we have a course launch, like we have a lie detection course I can SW swap that into my me shelf on my LA detection related videos.
RV (26:47):
Oh. So basically like you, you can just make a change and it’ll roll through all those videos at once.
VVE (26:52):
It’s manual it’s manual
RV (26:54):
VVE (27:44):
And it’s going after your specific key terms, right. It’s not book promo for my new book. It’s not what it’s called. It’s called. How do you more charismatic how to read people, how to have conversations with anyone like it’s, it’s specific keywords. And so thinking really carefully about that is extremely helpful. And I think you, you don’t have to have videos forever. Like that’s optimistic it also people make cuz they’re like, oh, once I start a YouTube channel, I can never stop. I’m like, no, it’s a search engine. Create 20 incredible videos. My incredible, I don’t mean fancy. I mean just really high value and
RV (28:15):
Your like useful, those are useful.
VVE (28:17):
Those are your 20, like 98% of our ad revenue on YouTube. So we also run ads on YouTube. 98% of our ad revenue on YouTube is from my back catalog. So it doesn’t have to be that you’re posting new videos every week. No, most of my money and our views are from videos I posted eight years ago.
RV (28:35):
Mm-Hmm
VVE (28:43):
Yeah. I enable YouTube ads behind the video. Yeah.
RV (28:47):
Do, do you, do you run paid ads on YouTube?
VVE (28:52):
Like I do not run. Nope. I don’t. You
RV (28:54):
Don’t run ads for your stuff. That’s a completely organic strategy, a complete, like a search strategy.
VVE (29:01):
We, we, we, all of our traffic, 100% is organic and we have millions of visitors every month. Except for during launch. So during launches, we do do pay ads,
RV (29:11):
But y’all like Vanessa is the, the, the, the perfect example of how we just talk about it. If you just add value and you just add value. One of our philosophies at brand builders group is we say, save the best for first. We, we tell people save the best for first. Like just put it out there. Eight years later you’re still ringing and you’re still ringing the, the register.
VVE (29:35):
Yes. And, and maybe this is a good place to sort of end on, which is our same. This is what I teach. All my writers is we are aggressively helpful, relentlessly helpful. Like if I feel that something in a video is boring or not helpful, cut it. I don’t care about the fancy graphics. I have one camera in a room. It’s like a closet I’m in here right now. And that’s it. But it is not relentlessly aggressively helpful. Cut it. That is more important than any fancy graphic, any video equipment that you can get. And so that’s, I think what you have to think about is like, how can you just be aggressively helpful?
RV (30:11):
Love it. So brilliant. So the book is called cues. That’s the new book. Where would you want, where do you wanna point people to go, Vanessa, if they wanna, obviously we talked about your YouTube channel, where would you direct people?
VVE (30:23):
Yes. So it’s on Amazon. It’s available. Wherever books are sold. I read the audible book. If you like my my unique vocal power, I do some fun. There’s a whole vocal section. So I do some really fun ones in there. And also I just wanna thank worry so much, you know, you, I don’t know if your, your listeners know that you are relentlessly helpful. Like literally I have to tell you to stop helping me. You’re such a giver. You’re so kind you always give, give, give, and there’s no feeling of like, oh, I, I need it in return. It’s literally just your relentlessly helpful. And so for people who are listening, like worry is the real deal. And I’m so grateful.
RV (30:56):
Oh, well, thank you so much, buddy. I mean, it’s it’s what works. I mean you know, I was, I, I was mentored by Zig Zeigler and he has that famous quote. If you help enough other people get what they want, you get what you want. It’s like, you can go all in on it. Like you can just, just test it. Like just, it feels
VVE (31:12):
So good.
RV (31:13):
It feels so good. Like you don’t have to, you don’t have to sell or do anything. Like all you’re doing is helping people all day long and then just like, it just, it just comes back. And I love seeing that as a content marketing strategy. I need to, I may, maybe I need to do that. Maybe I’m being too stingy with my YouTube videos. Maybe that’s why my way, maybe that’s why my channel’s not growing. Like I’m not being, I’m not being helpful enough there. So anyways, Vanessa van Edwards, brilliant, sharp, intelligent, useful, helpful. We are so excited and, and to, to know you and to promote you and to be associated. So keep kicking butt girl, you we believe in you. Thanks for being here. Woo.
VVE (31:47):
Thanks you so much for having me.
Ep 290: How Personal Branding is Changing the Sports Game with Mollie Marcoux Samaan
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know the there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from Martin team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. I am one of your co-host here at the CEO of brand builders group, but more importantly today I get to be the interviewer of a very special guest. And I’m so excited to introduce you guys to Molly MoCo Simon. And before I formally introduce her to you guys and let her share some of her brilliance and excellence, I, I have a formal bias, but I’m gonna read just some highlights out up. And if you guys listen to this often, you know, this is not something I typically do, but when I was reading through Molly’s bio, I was like, holy Nikes. I’ve gotta read some of this. So there’s some like, really amazing stuff in here. So currently Molly is the commissioner of the L PGA.
AJV (01:44):
And we’re gonna talk a little bit about how she got there and what does this all have to do with personal branding, but I’m gonna give you just a, a tiny bit of the back story of how she got to hear, and then I’m gonna let her share that as well, but she is a Princeton graduate and not just that, but a two sport varsity athlete, which I do not think is easy. I am not that skilled in the realm of athletics, but you were also named to the collegiate women’s ice hockey team of the decade, which is, I think is amazing. You were also you were also announced sportswoman of the year while you were there. You have then like you went on to had a more decade long career of a ver variety of different positions in the collegiate world, but then you came back to Princeton as the university’s family director of, of athletics.
AJV (02:36):
You did that for another, almost a decade, and it’s like, I could go on and on, but this is like, when I was reading your bio, I was like, oh my, my gosh, like you are truly an individual who has dedicated their entire life to sports and not just sports, but the discipline and the just work ethic that it takes to be that excellent at any one thing. And it wasn’t just one thing for you. It was so many different things. And so I’m amazed, like genuinely I was reading this time. I was like, I had no idea of all these things because you’re also really humble. And you don’t talk about any of that. So I gotta wanna introduce you so formally welcome to the show.
MMS (03:19):
Well, thanks AJ that was quite an intro, like, you know, bring you on the road with me as my best secretary. That was really nice. But again, the, the, the decade was the eighties, so it was a little different decade than today. So anyway, it was really fun and my joy and pleasure and life to be able to participate in two sports at Princeton and to play sports my whole life and have that opportunity. And yes, my, my whole life has been largely about sports. So you know, really grateful your shirt says grateful, which we just were talking about. And I try to be grateful every day in, in everything that I get to do.
AJV (03:51):
Oh my gosh. I just, I think that your accomplishments are incredible and now you’re leading an entire generation of female athlete in the, you know, field of golf. And I just, I find this too fascinating. And so I’m, I want everyone to know, it’s like, you heard a little bit about your background, but why the commissioner, why the LPGA tour?
MMS (04:11):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, I’ve had the pleasure, as I said, I’ve always had great jobs. I think when I, I always tell the story when I was graduating from college, my friends and I also sat around and we said, well, what, what would we like to be doing in five years? What would we like to be doing in 10 years, 15 years. And at every step of the way, I just put, you know, a really cool job in sports, a really cool job in sports, you know, at every, at every juncture, I, I knew that’s what I wanted to do. And I’ve had the great pleasure to have really cool jobs in sports, kind of in all parts of sports I worked in, right when I graduated, I did some stuff at a, at a boarding school and coached and worked in athletic administration.
MMS (04:44):
And then I worked for Chelsea Pierce, which is a big sports and entertainment complex in Manhattan and in Connecticut for almost 19 years. So really saw the amateur side of things and running big businesses and kind of working with athletes young and old at every level. And then having this really unique opportunity to go to prince. And obviously my Alma mater that I love and you know, really committed to the mission of education through athletics. That really is the cornerstone of the program there in the Ivy league, but also just at Princeton more broadly. And I was really, you know, going about my business really en enjoying the job despite the fact that it was COVID and those presented some, you know, that presented some really interesting challenges, but I got a full own call from someone saying, Hey, this is a, this is an opportunity that’s out there to be the L PGA commissioner.
MMS (05:27):
And you know, again, I, I love my job at Princeton, but this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to really in my mind impact sports, but really in particular impact women’s sports. I, I love golf. I’ve played golf my whole life and have Studi golf and think it’s a really unique sport, but mostly, you know, coming to at this at the way of like, this is a moment in time for women and women in sports that I think can really change not only sports, but change kind of the world and how people look at women and the talents that they have and the opportunities that exist in, in this world. So I, I you know, jumped at this chance and obviously convinced my family to make a pretty big move, to come down from New Jersey to Florida, which is a, you know, a big move for, for kids particularly, and my husband. So again, that, that grateful theme will, will run through everything I said and have this to live, to live my dreams, but hopefully more importantly to impact you know, the world of sports and impact specifically our, our women who play golf and also just young girls who play golf around the world.
AJV (06:28):
Oh, I love that. I love what you’re doing too. And for, for those of you listening, it’s Molly and I had the opportunity to meet because she, you heard me on another podcast, another Molly, a different Molly Molly Fletcher on the game changers podcast. And we got to connect and we’ve had a few pop conversations. And one of the things that is one of my passions, one of my goals for this year is to really break in to the world of professional sports when it comes to personal branding. Because I know rather during your tenure, as a professional athlete or post the impact of your personal brand, how many people know about you, like while you’re actually in the endeavor of your profession, it’s like, that has a lot to do with your income, right? Those are your brand deals, sponsorships negotiating pay raises because you bring the crowd with you, but then equally as important, if not more after, as you venture into, you know, your next endeavors post athletics.
AJV (07:30):
And so I’m curious with you this, this idea, this concept of personal branding, and I know, and everyone else knows, and this is no secret. It’s like female athletes make less than their ma than their counterpart male athletes. Like that’s no secret. We’re not like a whistleblowers here. That’s, that’s just, that’s a known fact. Right. So I’m curious, like, when you think about the world of sports and you think about women role in that, how much does a player’s personal brand matter when it comes to them being successful in terms of income and success and all of that?
MMS (08:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s, it’s absolutely critical. And I I’ve said this often, you know, when I was evaluating whether to jump into this position, I, I asked my kids, you know, to name five women on the LPGA and they could name a few and they, they weren’t, my kids aren’t necessarily, you know, serious golfers they’re they’re athletes and they’re engaged in the world of sports and they could only name a couple. And so that’s where I, I, I felt like, okay, I, I can really have an opportunity hopefully, to come and, and help these women elevate their, their own brands and elevate the brand, the L PGA brand more broadly, because at the end of the day in professional sports, that’s really what it’s all about in terms of getting eyeballs viewership getting people to engage with us. But I also think it’s about inspiring the next generation.
MMS (08:58):
Our women are so good at this game, you know, to be the best a hundred players or 150 players in the world. I mean, that’s pretty darn remarkable. How many times do you find someone who is the best? You know, we have people who are obviously the best, but also even the top hundred or 150. And I think world needs to know about them more because that will help obviously the LPGA in terms of our partnerships and our commercialization, but it’ll also help them. These are individual athletes who make their money in a number of different ways. They obviously make money by competing and by winning the prize money on the tour, but they also are the personal brands and the represe, there’s the ambassadors for a number of companies and a, a good portion of their income can come from that association from, from the brand.
MMS (09:42):
And, you know, we are getting a lot of traction in that area. People are seeing that these are amazing role models, and they can hit their, their corporate values or through their corporate identity to these remarkable women who are not only be very successful on their own, but inspiring that next generation of young girls to say, I can do this. You know, I can, I can compete at the highest level. I can be a very good person while I do it, and I can represent others brands along the way. So I think it’s really critical to their overall direct income, but it’s also really critical to the L PGA’s success more broadly, and our ability to have a positive impact on the world. So we’re really doubling down on that right now, trying to figure out ways to help them elevate their brands to help us elevate our own brand, which is really important.
MMS (10:28):
I think the L PGA doesn’t get as much credit as it should. We’ve been around 71 years. We’ve had amazing women for the, for longer than any other really profe women’s professional sport. We’ve done it kind of on our own. People have made a, a living, a good living and have, like I said, inspired the world through their play as a young girl, the only real role models that you had to look up to in professional athletics were golfers or tennis players for the most part is I was growing up. And so, and I played golf. So I was very engaged with the women that were doing very well. And the tour now I’ve gotten to meet them, you know, the same women who are my inspiration as a young kid to say, Hey, anything’s possible. You know, there, there, there are opportunities in sports, whether you’re actually competing or you’re working in sports, but sports is a place for women. So I think it is a hundred percent you know, sort of top of mind, critical for us on the go forward strategy for the LPJ and for our players to it, continue to get the world, to see, you know, these remarkable women do what they do.
AJV (11:22):
Ah, I love that, you know, and you, it’s funny as how you’re talking is, you know, I think about the study that our company did brand builders group went out and fielded a national research study on the trends and impacts of personal branding just about a year ago. And it’s the first national study about branding and a huge part that we thought were so was so interesting. And something you just said made me think about this is that 88% of millennials, age 26 to 44, but then 82% of the entire general population, no matter what your age is, agree that a company is more influential when the founder or executives have a public facing personal brand. And what you just said, like really resonated to something that we talk a lot about. It’s like, we are no longer really in the era of the company is no longer the entity that is known. It’s the people within the company that make the company known. And so when you said it’s like, Hey, like the more well known our players become the more well known our organization becomes. Oh yeah. I mean, that goes across all sports, all industries, all organizations, no matter what. And so I’m curious in your opinion, what do you think in this specific conversation the players need to be doing to help themselves become more well known, thus making the entire organization more well known? Like what would you like to see?
MMS (12:49):
Well, I, I would, you know, I think that letting people get to know them as much as possible, and some of that is our responsibility you know, out outside of their own social media and outside the things that they can do to continue to place themselves into situations where, you know, they’re letting the world see all the good that they’re doing, not only on the golf course, but the way that they train the way that they eat, the way that they sleep, the way that they engage in sort of high performance, I think is very interesting to the world. Also the way that they give back. I mean, our, our women are significant contributors to, to charity, to young girls, you know as I said before, allowing young girls to have inspiration and to be role models, I think getting that word out and being very creative and, and aggressive with their own social media, but also from our perspective, one of the things that we’re, we’re trying to do more is, you know, give, give audiences more of an opportunity to know the, the, the players individually, not just their talent, I mean their talent.
MMS (13:43):
I think people still need to understand how significant it is, but I also wanna be able to do things in broadcast. You know, we’re trying to stream holes, you know, on, on various streaming platforms where we can interview the app plates in the middle of their round. It’s also a really unique sport where they can be playing and we can actually have an announcer or broadcaster come up and, and just ask them what they’re thinking as they’re about to hit their next shot within a very large competition where they’re competing for a great deal of money was really cool. And I think that’s where the association starts to come in, because as you said, people think of P people, they, they, you know, they follow the LPGA and we need to do continue to do a better job and continue to grow our abilities in that area, which our team is really good and they’re really focused on it, but mostly we connect with people.
MMS (14:26):
We cheer, cheer on people. It’s you know, you want, you wanna be watching someone, you know, you wanna be watching someone whose story, you know, what, how hard it was to get to that point. And every athlete on, on our tour has a different story. And they’re quite remarkable. They’re not what you think they are. And I think they provide inspiration. They’re very interesting. They’re very engaging. And I think that they have this platform to help people be better in their own lives. And also if you think about golf, I mean, wow, golf is just a hard sport. When you, I don’t know how much you play J but, but when you stand up on that tee, you never know what’s gonna happen. And at the end of your round, imagine being in your professional life, we all were talking about being stressed and other things that are challenging.
MMS (15:05):
But if in your professional life, every day at the end of your Workday, you gotta score
AJV (15:41):
Oh my gosh. It’s so true. And it’s it’s so true to, you know, just anyone who’s in the public eye, rather you’re putting yourself there, or you just you’re there. Right. I think a lot of this has to do is so much of what we talk about in our community at brand builders group. And I believe a huge resistance to a lot of our community of like really putting themselves out there is the fear of people not liking them or disagree with them. And it’s like, the truth is it’s like, the more true you are to yourself, you’re gonna have more lovers and more haters. That’s just the part of being, and that’s hard, that’s like a hard choice. And then to be in a profession where that just is a part of the job, that’s so intense. And so I’m curious to know genuinely it’s like, what would you say that most of your players, or even like you yourself, it’s like, do you think that there’s a resistance to build personal of brands?
MMS (16:34):
Yeah, I think there, I mean, I, I don’t know that there’s a resistance to build personal brands because I think we all want to do that. I mean, I know I need to be a lot better about that and because I agree with you and you and I have been talking about that. Like, I think the people really do believe that the CEO or the leader of the company is the representative of that total company. And so I need to do a better job myself on that, but I think our players, you know, it’s very hard to put yourself out there and, and particularly in the world of professional sports where everyone just feels like they have the right to, to tell you what they think of your play, of what you look like out there of what, you know, so it’s very, very hard, but, but I, so I think that there is sometimes some resistance, but I, I think the more we educate on how to do it positively and just continue to focus on your own values and continue to focus on the things that you believe in, and then let the chips kind of fall where they may, you know, and, and obviously we need to support them in that every step of the way as well.
MMS (17:31):
So it’s, you know, it’s hard, but it, it does does matter. And I think it will just continue to open up doors for them, every P every sponsor or partner that comes up to me tells me how amazing our athletes are, you know, and that’s almost like this, this secret that we’re keeping. And we need to just tell the world a little bit more aggressively, listen, we, our, our players are quite well known in many circles and some of them more than others, but I just think there’s this huge opportunity for them, sorry to inspire. And we really just are, like I said, we’re really focused on that. So I think there is a resistance, but we’re trying to give people it’s comfortable in environment as possible to do that.
AJV (18:11):
Yeah. You know, there’s two things I wanna, I
AJV (18:55):
Right. And that, that is the business of sports. And then the other thing I was gonna say, it’s like, you know, this same resistance, or not even resistance reluctance, or sometimes it’s confusion. It’s like, I think this is what the entire world is experiencing right now with this enormous shift of going from like this traditional marketing and advertising world to this new kind of world order of the just undeniable importance of your reputation, your audience engagement people knowing about you. Like, that’s just becoming increasing more important. Like we just strongly believe it’s like personal branding is a trend. It’s not a fad which means it’s not going away. Right. It it’s a growing amplified part of how we do business. And there is not a ton of talk around this and a lot of businesses and organizations, but you are making this a topic like is something that you guys are focused on and intent of like, how do we get our players to be more well known?
AJV (19:57):
Cuz we know if we do that, it’s gonna benefit the organization. And there’s, there’s still a lot of debate on, should we shouldn’t we, and you’re kind of taking the stance of, no, this is what we’re gonna do. And that’s clearly a shift of what has been done within the L P G a. And so I’m curious, like as your like seat as commissioner and in kinda like during your reign here, right. Why, why this, like, what is it about this that you think is just so important as we kinda like move into this next era of marketing?
MMS (20:28):
Well, a co a couple things. One, I, I do think it’s also though in that hesitancy or the reluctance, I think it is our responsibility as the LPGA to continue to help with kind of helping them through the difficult parts of it too, you know, kind of providing the right perspective on it. So it doesn’t, you know, so really they can focus on their own wellbeing and their own mental health and all of that too. And making sure that there’s good perspective. I always think that mindset and perspective and approach is really the most important thing in anything you do in life is sort of how you enter, how you enter that challenge and how, you know, what you’re getting into when you into it and just really staying true to your own values and knowing, being confident with who you are and knowing what the upside is, but also knowing where the downside can be and being prepared for that.
MMS (21:15):
So I think those are some of the things that we’re trying to, to work on. But, but again, getting back to your question, I mean, it’s it, like I said, it’s just so critical that that, that they as individual athletes really entrepreneurs. I mean, if you really think about it, the women on our tour, they don’t play for a team. They play for themselves. Yeah. And so their own personal brand is even that much more important because they’re actually selling their brand, just like the LPJ is selling our brand to be able to make all of this work. You know, we, we don’t exist without the, the commercialization of, of the sport. I mean, we, we are in the business to allow women to live their dreams through golf you know, tangentially, but, but, or not even tangentially just as, as an integrated part of what we do, we are also part of our mission is to give this opportunity to young girls, to women, whatever skill level, all around the world, because we think it’s so by valuable.
MMS (22:08):
So in order, like you said, in order for us to do that, people have to know the opportunities exist. They have to know the the benefits of participating in golf and participating in sport for young girls and for women, you know, the community building the networking. So in order for us to be successful in that way, people have to know our stories and have to, to, to get to know our athletes and it for our athletes to be able to truly maximize this amazing gift that they have they’re individual entrepreneurs and they need to commercialize it. You know, there are different ways they can do it. So it’s really built into their entire ability to reach our mission and their mission mission, which is to live their dreams through the game of golf and inspire the world to have a positive impact. So it’s all tied in together. I mean, I think it really is all part and parcel of what we do as an organization is we need more of the world to, to know about us. So we’re really focused on that.
AJV (23:02):
Yeah. And it’s like kind of the easy, easiest maybe not, I must say simplest, not easiest, but the simplest thing to do, it’s like as your players become more well known, you become more well known. It’s like this win-win situation. I love what you said too. It’s like really our players are entrepreneurs. Like that is such a great way at looking at this particular sport and there’s other sports like that, but it’s, you know, you said something earlier that just made me think this it’s like the more that we get to know the stories of the players and here’s what I have found to be true. The more that I get to know the stories of the athletes, of the teams that I follow, I don’t just love the athlete more. I love the entire sport more. Yeah. You know, and I think I shared this with you.
AJV (23:47):
It’s like, I recently watched the movie king Richard about Venus and Serena Williams father and about them. And the most fascinating thing happened through like the next few weeks after watching this movie, it’s like one I’m just dumbfounded at their superiority and the skillset and just like who they are as humans and individuals. And there’s the fact that they’re in the same family. Like, so I have become like so endeared to both of them and their excellence, but I’ll tell you what else happened is I’ve become way more interested in the entire sport of tennis. Oh yeah. Right. It’s not, and here’s what I’d say. It’s like the stories of athlete don’t make, you just love them more. They make you love the entire sport more. And that’s something that I think is really amazing. It’s like my husband is a really great golfer and really loves golf.
AJV (24:35):
And he’s always pressuring me to go golfing. And, you know, it’s like, I haven’t necessarily ever had a great desire and passion to it until I met you. Right. And it’s like, now that I talk, I talk to you and I’m getting to know it. It’s like, I’m naturally more inclined to wanna learn about this sport because I’m fascinated by you. Like, I wanna get to know your players because it’s like, I wanna support people that I believe in the exact same thing happens with companies. Right. When I fall in love with a founder of a company it’s like, and I wanna support what this person is doing because I’m fascinated and interested by their story. And I wanna be a part of it. And I think it, this exact same thing happens when we fall in love with stories. We fall in love with the people, but also what they’re a part of. And that includes the entire sport.
MMS (25:18):
Absolutely. The sport, the LPGA women’s sports. I think, I think by watching king Richard, which I, I loved as well. And you know, you, you really get, you appreciate the hard work, the sacrifices, the challenges that have gone into getting them to where they got, it’s pretty darn remarkable and, and how hard it is to get there and how, how talented they really are. So, and again, if you think about sports, why, why do people love their hometown team? Why do people love their a college team? It’s because it builds community and you’re a part of something bigger than yourself. And there’s a personal connection to that team. You don’t generally just pick a team and say, oh, I, I like their colors. I mean, sometimes that’s how you originally sort of align yourself with the team, but then it’s about the people.
MMS (26:03):
I, I like watching sports when I have some understanding of who the people are, whether it’s a quarterback on a football team or whether, and whether it’s, you know, the star player. And that was why, you know, being at Princeton was, was so fun. I always loved Princeton athletics. I loved following the teams when I was not the ad, just as an alum, because that was my association of my affiliation. But then when you get to know the athletes and, you know, their stories, you become sort of obsessed by their results and by their success because you know, how much went into it. And that’s the same with the LPGA. I’ve always been a fan. I’ve always loved golf. I’ve always been a student of the game and the history of the, the LPGA, but now knowing these athletes and seeing who they are as people, you know, you wake up wondering how they, sometimes they, they were playing in Asia last week.
MMS (26:47):
And I was there. I was in Singapore for the first week. And then I had to come home for some meetings. They then played in Thailand. And so the time changes are very, you know, the time differences are, are significant. They’re 14 hours, 13 or 14 hours ahead. And so, you know, I’d wake up in the morning and just first grab my phone and see how they did at now, knowing all of the women you’re really following them, you’re connected with them. And so the more other people, not just the commissioner knows who, I mean, again, we have a huge fan base and a, a many, many people know our athletes and are inspired by them and they’re doing great work out there, but I think there’s even, there are more people that could be inspired and get to know them and sort of, you know have something to cheer for where else in the world do you actually cheer for other people?
MMS (27:28):
There are not many places where you’re putting your arms up, you’re clapping, you know, and you’re personally invested in it. I mean, look at the fans at different games and they have their hands and their, their face and their they’re so invested in the success of their teams. And it’s not really just the team, it people that they’re watching. And so there’s so much more of an opportunity for that, which I’m, I’m really excited about. And I wouldn’t be so excited if I didn’t think our women were so remarkable. And I didn’t think that our product was so good. And so you know, I’ve used this word too many times here today, but so inspiring. So, and that’s really what, why I’ve stayed connected with sports so much is because I do think changes people’s lives. I think it builds leaders. I think it builds communities. I think it gives people some optimism and something to look forward to. So I think there’s so many benefits of it that I, I love having this platform to, to tell our stories,
AJV (28:18):
Oh, I love that. And I so agree with you. It’s like, I just think there’s so many benefits of sports and Jim, like, regardless of what it is, there’s just so many, but in fact to what you said, it’s like, what are the, what are the things in life? Do you like physically jump out of your chair, horse screaming and yelling for other people. Yeah. Right. And it’s like, you get so emotionally invested into the team, the community, it’s like, like how many times do you like buy all the gear of your favorite come and wear it with pride. Right.
MMS (28:47):
Like
AJV (28:48):
This doesn’t happen. Like that’s such a great point. And so we have just like eight more minutes or so. And so I have, I wanna shift gears just a little bit and I wanna talk about you and really like your role. And you said earlier, it’s like at every decade in your life that you’ve said, like, I just wanna pick like the next, most awesome, like role in sports. And so I’m gonna kind of put you on the spot, right. And looking at this next decade, like 10 years from now, like, what do you wanna be doing?
MMS (29:16):
Well, I mean, listen, I, I have a, a big, big task ahead of me here. And so I’m really not, not looking forward past this opportunity at all. I mean, I’ve just gotten here, been here, you know, six months, a little over six months. And we have a great platform. The LPJ is in a really good position, but, but they’re the, the fun of it is that there’s huge growth to be had too. So I would like to look back in 10 years and say, Hey, we, we elevated the LPGA to a place where the women are making more money, you know, getting closer hopefully, or, or getting to the point, the same amount of dollars that the men make to play the sport that more people know about them have been inspired by them. That girls golf has grown around the world, not just, you know, we’re a global tour.
MMS (29:57):
So we have women from, I think, over 50 cut countries participating on the LPGA. And we also partner with the ladies European tour and we have a qualifying tour that the EEPs tour. So we have, I think over 50 women from different countries. And so our 50 countries represented. So we have the opportunity not just to impact what’s happening in the us, but you know around the whole world. And so I hope that we wake up in, I wake up in 10 years and say, well, we really did take this to the next level. And we were able to impact the individuals that participate, but also the world more broadly. I hope the number of girls that are playing the game have, has grown. I hope the number of girls who, who really might not otherwise have that opportunity if we weren’t really intentional about it, I think you know, certain sports these days, almost all sports have become very expensive.
MMS (30:44):
Yeah. And you know, golf has traditionally been known as a very expensive sport, and this is an opportunity that can’t be just given to, to young girls or boys whose families have the resources it’s like education. I really feel like it’s our responsibility to give this remarkable game to those who might not other feel either comfortable or feel have the resources to be able to play. So I’d like to wake up and say, Hey, we really did give this opportunity to many, many more young girls and we impacted many, many more lives along the way. So you’re kind of looking at impacting lives, but you’re doing it through this, this overall platform. Which, and, and hopefully women’s sports has grown during that period and no longer do people look and go, okay, well, there’s, there’s golf. And then there’s, women’s golf. You know, it’s sort of like, there’s golf and there’s, men’s golf and there’s, women’s golf.
MMS (31:29):
And then we play together. I mean, that’s the beauty of golf also that men, men and women can play together. And you know, people who think that they can beat our women, you know, men or women who, who don’t really know, I love that scenario when you say, okay, yeah, you, why don’t you come out and play against these women and see what happens at the end? I mean, they are just as good as the men. They might not hit it quite as far off the tee, but then their game from there on, in our data and our statistics are showing that they are just as good or better in many areas. And so I’d like the, the world to know that and for us to tell those stories.
AJV (32:01):
Hmm. That’s so good. And I love that. I love, I love too that you’re just focused on the here and now, right. We’ll see where the road takes you, but you’re focused on the here and now. So if we were just to take it personal for you, it’s like, I know you wanna see these women’s stories told you wanna see the, the, you know, game of golf, you know, it shared, and hopefully it grows and you know, all these D from things. So those aside, right, I’m just super curious, like, are there any like internal things that, or messages that you hope come out of your tenure here? And this could be just not even about golf, but sports women’s sports, men’s sports, whatever, but it’s like, are there any underlying themes that you’re like, man, if you know, the world were up my fingertips and I had a magic wand and I could make sure all these things happen, is there anything that you really want your legacy to be? As you know, you think about, at some point, this position will be over however many years down the road. It is. But when people think back and they think about Molly Marman, like, what do you want them to think about?
MMS (33:09):
Well, I mean, I think as you said, I like to be in the, in the here and now. I mean, I’ve never had a job where I’m looking for the next job. I mean, those jobs have always, fortunately I’ve just had a lot of really lucky you know, connections and relationships and people who have put me forward for other other opportunities, but I’ve always just tried to say, like, you gotta care deeply about what you’re doing at that moment. So I hope people, you know, look back and say, you know, she really cared because she cared not because she was trying to, you know, elevate her own career, anything like that, because I actually think that’s the worst thing that you can do in, in your job. You have to be invested in, in what you do for what it is. Not, not for what it can get you.
MMS (33:48):
And I do think that’s a really important thing for people is just like, be where you are, love what you do care deeply about the product and the people, and try to make it better every day, you know, wake up thinking, how do I get this organ to be better? How do I get the people around me to be better? How do I get myself to be better? You know, how do I grow every day? So I hope people from my own perspective, I hope that’s what people, what people say. You know, there was one of my bosses at Chelsea Pierce, you know, where they were doing this in my going away party. And, you know, they were standing up and saying really nice things. And you’re always like, oh, I never knew they, they thought that, but one of my bosses, you know, that’s, that’s what he said.
MMS (34:25):
And at first I was like, wow. He just said, like, I thought, he’d say, oh, I did really well at this. Or I had these accomplishments or I was hoping, but he just said, you know, at the end of the day Molly cared, you know, she, she really cared about our organization, cared about our people. And so when I reflected back on that, I was a little younger or I was like, that’s, that’s, that’s good. Like, I was proud of that. I hope I hope that that continues. And that that’s what people can sort of say the same thing along the way, because makes life a lot more fun to care about the teams you’re on, you know, being an athlete, being associated with teams. I think everything is about your teams, whether it’s your family or your work, or your friends or your community, they’re all teams.
MMS (35:01):
And so how do you show up for that team? So that’s what I, that’s what I hope in my career is like, I, I really have no, I have no aspirations for a different job or for, you know, really just to have impact where I am and to, to, to have people who I work with say, Hey, she really does care and she’s not gonna be perfect is gonna make mistakes. And, you know, not gonna know everything by any stretch, but she care. And, and I think that’s really that’s what my hope is.
AJV (35:25):
Mm. I love that. You said two things there. I thought that was so good. Is that you’re a part of teams, no matter what you do in life, like maybe it’s your family team or your work team, or maybe you have a church team or a nonprofit team, or maybe you’re on a sports team, right? Yeah. But it’s like, you’re a part of teams, no matter you’re in sports or not. And that’s such a great way looking at all the different things that we do. It’s like, I’m a part of like six different teams. Right. Right. And I had never thought about it that where it’s like, I’m a crucial integral part of making our family team work. Right. And if I don’t, if I don’t do good, they don’t do good.
MMS (36:04):
That’s the most important team by the way, that is by far, the most important team is your, is your team. I heard someone yesterday say you know, the, the, the team that really matters the team, that’s sitting at your Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. And, and that’s a good way of putting it, you know, that’s the team that makes the most, and it was actually from a coach who cares deeply about his specific team that he plays on or that he coaches. But I think the most important team is always the team that’s sitting at your Thanksgiving dinner. But yeah, I mean, sometimes your role on the team is not exactly the role that you would like to have. And I, I, I talk to kids about that all the time, but if you go in with like, Hey, whatever my role is, my job is to make that team better.
MMS (36:43):
Whether I’m the star player or I’m, you know, sitting at the end of the bench, everybody on that team contributes to the overall success. And if you don’t wake up thinking about that, you can actually be a negative impact to the team. Oh, that’s so great. And so you, you really, you have to, you know, and in sports, you know, the college level, we talk about that with the coaches all the time. It’s like the end of the bench is just as important as, as the starting superstar. And so make sure you as the coach or the leader play to that whole bench, but also if you’re on the end of the bench, how are you contributing to make that team better that day? And it translates to work. It translates to family it, to everything. We know that in marriages and in, you know, listen, some days you’re gonna be getting to do what you wanna do and other days your, your partner’s gonna need to do what they need to do. And it’s a constant, you know, team that we engage in, same thing with our kids. So I just love thinking of it as teams. Yeah.
AJV (37:34):
I love that. Like, I’m totally gonna shift my mindset around. It’s like, we all have different roles, but we’re a team and I’m a part of like a variety of little teams in my life. And it’s like, how am I showing up? Like, what’s my role in each of those teams. I love that. That’s so good. The other thing you said that when I like highlight for the listeners is you gotta care about what you’re doing for the sake of just doing a good job and loving what you’re doing, not because of what it’s going to get you.
MMS (37:59):
Right.
AJV (37:59):
Right. That is so significant. I feel like so many people in life intentionally are not, are doing things while subconsciously doing them going, if I do this, then I’ll get this. Yeah. Or if I do this for this person, and they’ll do this for me, it’s like, there’s this like subconscious mindset of I’ll do this, but I’ll do it to get this right. And you said, no, it’s like, do it for the sake of doing it and being a part of the team and loving what you do.
MMS (38:25):
Yeah. And for you to get better and for you to grow and for, you know, there’s those intrinsic benefits of that for sure. But it really does. I think reduce stress and you know, reduce the anxiety around what you’re doing. You wake up and say, okay, my task is to, to care and to, to make this organization better and to accomplish my goals and not worry about the rest. It’s not always easy to do. And believe me, I fall prey to all of that. Like we all do, but trying to get back to level set on mindset. And, and you know, even just with kids in school, there’s so much pressure on grades and successes on sports teams and in the play and various things. And, you know, I constantly try to say to my kids, listen, you know, you, you show up, do the very best you can and let the chips fall where they may, you know, and, and you contribute to it because you love it.
MMS (39:08):
And because it makes you happy and because it it’s fulfilling and it helps you grow, don’t worry so much about that result. That’s hard for kids. It’s hard for adults. It’s hard for all of us, but I do think it, for me, it reduces stress. You know, it’s like, listen, I can just put one foot forward, put my clothes on, get out of the house and do the very best I can do. And, and hope that things go the best that they can possibly go. And, and that’s not something I’ve always my mindset I’ve always had, you know, I think that’s you know, sort of I over time. So I try to share that with my kids and, you know, they have to go through some stuff on their own to figure that out. But I do think that’s an important mindset.
AJV (39:43):
Oh, I love that. I’m telling you what it’s like, the more time I get to spend with you, it’s like, you just have like all these little like excellent bombs, just dropping everywhere, all these like awesome little golden nuggets that just come outta your I so love what you’re doing. I know exactly why you were recruited for this position. I am so excited to see what you do for the, the whole game of golf. But specifically for these women players, I’m so excited to just see this change. And it’s like, regardless of how many of, how many other people it’s gonna impact, like I can my hand and say, it’s like from the day that we had our first conversation, I have had a new appreciation and interest for the game. And I’m just one. So it’s like, there’s gonna be a serious domino effect with all the things that you’re doing. And so people wanna learn more about you and stay in touch with the LPGA tour. Like where should they go? Where do you want people to find you?
MMS (40:38):
Well, again, I think I need to do a better job of letting people find me, but I am on Twitter. I think it’s M Mar U 91. Something like that, but I should probably know that more specifically, but, but you can always find me too on the LPGA site. And you know, we’re constantly doing things through our social media channels and through, through, but, but I think, you know, in me getting to know you that, that, and I reached out to you because I heard you, as I said on Molly Fletcher’s podcast and just was really, I loved your message. And I, I know that’s something, an area of growth for me to be able to put myself out there more and to be able to you know, be, be willing to, to do that. But mostly for me at this point, it’s a little bit about time, but it has to be a, a pro of time, you know, and I always wanna, if I’m gonna do something, I wanna do it really well. And sometimes it’s hard to find time to do this really well with all the other things that you’re trying to do and other ways that you’re trying to serve other people. But I do think that it is important. You know, for the LP G I, I wouldn’t do it so much if it was just to elevate my own personal brand, but if it’s gonna help elevate the tour and help elevate what we do, then I, I need to continue to get better at that.
AJV (41:43):
Well, I’ll do all the research. I’ll make sure all the right handles are in the notes.
MMS (41:47):
AJV (41:55):
Baby steps, baby steps, baby
MMS (41:56):
Baby
AJV (41:57):
Steps. But I’ll put all that in there. I’ll grab all the links for the LPGA. I’ll put all those in there and, and y’all like, go follow these players, go follow the LPGA. Like also follow Molly. I’m gonna, I’m gonna enforce her. I’m gonna make her share all of her brilliance more typically online. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much. I know how busy you are. Thank you so much for being on the show.
MMS (42:21):
Yes, my pleasure. Thanks for doing this and thanks for helping elevate our, our women. And like you said, go to the LPGA, a social media handles and, and also watch our broadcast we’re on golf channel. There’s times when we’re on we’re on network television, we’re, we’ve got some great ideas brew around some other ways that you can engage. We’ve done an all access video of one of our, or, you know, sort of docu-series. So again, getting to know our players through that docu-series and through sort of their personal lives is really remarkable. I think you’ll be inspired. So thanks for everything. And yeah, I look forward to continuing our conversation.
AJV (42:52):
X is awesome. Y’all thanks so much for listening. Stay tuned for another episode of the influential personal brand. We’ll see you next time.
Ep 288: Personal Brand Strategies for Network Marketing and Direct Sales with Ray Higdon
RV (00:00):
So a few months back, I made some friends, Ray and Jessica Higden, who I have really grown to love. I mean, if you know anything about my story, you know, I was raised by a single mom who sold Mary Kay. I was in direct sales when I was in college. I went door to door for five years and, you know, just for really believe in direct sales and the power of direct sales and have been so warmly welcomed by network marketing companies and had the privilege of speaking at a lot of their events. And now at brand builders group, we see a, a growing number of you who are somehow involved with network marketing at, as either a side hustle or a portion of your business, or you’re, you know, maybe you’re a, you’re a fitness influencer, and you’re just recommending, you know, shakes or workout programs or whatever.
RV (00:51):
And so it made sense that we had to get Ray to come on the show. He is one of the world’s leading experts. I would say on network marketing and, and driving business for that. So he has a community called rank makers. He has about a half a million people, 500, almost 500,000 followers on social media. I met him and Jessica. They had a book that came out last year and the, the book came out from hay house. It’s called time, money, freedom. And the book is, and a bestseller and these guys have helped over 300,000 people generate more business, right. They grow their recruits, grow their business. And so anyways, we’re gonna talk about using your personal brand specifically to grow a network marketing direct sales business. So Ray, welcome to the show.
RH (01:45):
Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me man. Excited to be out here.
RV (01:48):
Did I say all that accurately? I mean,
RH (01:51):
Did I I’ll clear, I’ll clarify the last point. So
RV (01:53):
Clarify
RH (01:54):
In the last four years, we’ve helped network marketers bring in over 300,000 new customers, 71,000 new reps and achieve 14,000 rank advances. We actually track production of our, of our group. And so that that’s, that’s just the everything else was perfect, man.
RV (02:11):
Got it. So it’s that’s so it’s, it’s, it’s not 300,000 people you’ve helped your clients generate 300,000 customers recruit 71,000 team members. And then and then how many know the, how much show the rank advance
RH (02:27):
14,000 over 14,000 rank advances. And we have you know, a little bit over 11,000 people in our group. So, you know, you can kind of look at that and in those numbers, but you know, we’re very proud of our rank makers. We give them a action step every single day and they show it big.
RV (02:45):
Yeah. So, you know, there’s kind of two parts of this because on the one hand I’m really curious. And how do you think personal branding drives a network marketing, you know, direct sales business, but also, you know, most of the people we have on this show, it’s, they’re telling us the story of how they built their personal brand. And so you’ve done that as well. So like in the means of helping all of these people use their personal brand to grow their business, you guys have built a pretty monster empire here in a very, you know, a niche vertical, which, you know, regardless if somebody’s in direct sales or not almost everybody listening, I mean, this is gonna be our advice to them is, is to find their uniqueness and really dominate a vertical. And like, you guys have done that as, as, as good as anybody. Hmm.
RH (03:39):
Thank, thank you. Yeah. You know, before we were, you know, coaching and training you know, we were the number one incomers of a network marketing company. So I know, I know what it’s like to be in the field. I know what it’s like to, you know, to grind it out. I also know what it’s like to fail, cuz I, I failed in my first quite a few attempts at network marketing, cuz there were, there were a few of things I just didn’t get about network marketing cuz it is, especially when it comes to branding, it is very different than almost everything else. You know, if you’re like here’s, here’s a brand you would like. So in Cape coral we used to my wife when she was pregnant, we took her to this very specific chiropractor that was chiropractic for pregnant. Women.
RV (04:26):
Love it, like
RH (04:27):
Very specific. And that guy was booked. I mean he was booked. And I said to him, one day, I’m like, that’s a, that’s a pretty good niche. He goes, yeah know man
RV (04:44):
Right.
RH (04:44):
The reason I, I bring that up is, you know, the realtor isn’t typically teaching everyone how to also be a realtor they’re selling houses, but a network marketer kind of revolves around, you know, that world of, of what you do. You want to also be able to share that other or people can do. So I’m, I’m very hardcore when it comes to being, you know, being duplicatable, but there’s also nuances there’s nuances and, and pieces of that, that, that I don’t think a lot of people know that the distinctions of, but we’ve been able to, you know, to navigate that.
RV (05:19):
Yeah. And I, so I wanna talk about this specific, like, so you mentioned that you guys were a top income or number one income earn at, at, at one of these network marketing companies. I feel like the whole issue of personal branding is a conflict. Like it’s, it’s, it’s like a big question mark for how does a network marketing company deal with? Because I, on the one hand you go, yes, as, as one of our dealers distributors, team members, whatever you want to call ambassadors, whatever you call ’em builds this hugely successful personal brand, it, you know, helps them sell more and recruit more. On the other hand, I feel like there’s a lot of conflicts of like, well then they’re doing their own thing. They’re not really doing the company thing. And also it gets a little weird when people start selling products like their own information products that they make to their downline, right.
RV (06:19):
Because you’re in a, your downline or organization, you have a lot of influence and you’re already incentivized to help those people succeed. You make money off of their success typically. So like how do you, how do you recommend people like direct sales companies navigate that or manage that? Or like, what are some of the philosophies either that you’re employing or companies you go, yeah, I think they’re kind of doing this well, cuz I, I honestly see both sides of it. Like I see going, Hey, the company has a brand to protect, we’ve dumped a bunch of money into creating this product and this reputation back in infrastructure. And then also being like, well yeah, well, you know, if you’re growing your social media following, like that’s your asset. So yeah. You know, not to start with the, not to start with the hard questions, but let’s start with the hard, hard ones.
RH (07:04):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting. So I remember, so that company that, that we were the, the top income earns of in 2013, it merged into a larger company and that larger company, you know, like I, I had a lot of internet marketers. I mean, I, I had like, you know, in our space I had,
RH (07:57):
And they’re, they’re big thing was we just don’t want you using our logo or our name. And I’m like done, done deal. And, and I think that that is I think that that’s a smart approach, right? That’s a smart approach to say, don’t use the company name, don’t use, you know, the logo. And I mean, at the time I, I don’t know what it’s like now at the time, I mean, I was getting more traffic than, than their site
RH (08:45):
No, you’re gonna be like, yay. We got Brian Tracy, right? If you brought in you know, some guru, of course they’re gonna continue to sell their stuff. And so if you can allow that, then how can you not allow, you know, this over here? And so there’s, you know, for, for me personally, when I started selling courses, I didn’t market ’em to my team. If someone came to me when we started offering coaching, if someone in team came to me and said, you know, Hey, I wanna hire you as a coach. If they wanted to learn prospecting team, building leadership, duplication closing, you know, the standard kind of stuff of, of network marketing. I’m not gonna charge ’em I, I’m not gonna, you know, hit ’em with some big coaching fee. But if they’re wanting to learn blogging, podcasting, brand, all these things, to me that falls outside the realm of what a network marketing leader should be teaching.
RH (09:41):
And, and so that was a little bit different story. I had a, you know, a few people on my team that, that hired us as, as coaches, but it’s cuz they wanted something that you wouldn’t typically get in network marketing leadership. I think one of the, if, if you look at, at what companies are red hot, I mean red hot these are the companies that are the most flexible they just are. And you know, there’s a lot of you know, we’re not in the eighties where there’s, you can just put hedges up big enough. So no one can, you know, see outside of the company opportunities at every, you know, every second of the day you’re presented with a new opportunity. So the influencer has a lot of options. And, and so I, I think it’s a mistake. If, if companies are saying don’t you dare build a personal brand, but I also think it’s a mistake.
RH (10:28):
If an influencer says you must build a personal brand. So, you know, for example, there’s a lot of, and, and I know I, I go crazy on over here. For example, we, a lot of influencers they’ll bash cold, cold market messaging, right? And so, you know, we teach people how to send, you know, simple messages to people that they don’t know and, and actually get results because some people don’t wanna build a brand. Some people don’t wanna, you know, do all the attraction marketing stuff, they just wanna and get in and get out. Well, one of our students, Christina, Danielle, she’s the number one recruiter in her company. It’s for a pet supplies company which she doesn’t even have a pet. And she does it a hundred percent through cold messaging. That’s someone she doesn’t care to have a brand doesn’t want a brand doesn’t wanna build a traction marketing. She’s the one to get in. She’s the, the number one recruiter in that company. And so there’s a, there’s a lot of things that, that work in network marketing. I think the mistake is saying, this is the only way don’t you dare build a personal brand or you have to build a personal brand.
RV (11:29):
Hmm. Yeah. Well, it’s interesting too, because like back in 2013 you know, that would, that, that makes sense to me to go yeah. Blogging, podcasting, you know, funnel, social media, definitely not part of the mainstream of what you would teach for network marketing, but today it probably is right. Like to go man, like social media, like a lot of these companies thrive or maybe I, I mean, I don’t know, like I’m not as much into it. I mean, I keynote at some of the events, but like, you know, it sure seems like leveraging social media. I mean, you tell me like leveraging social media to grow your business is a, is a, is one way to do it. Like I very, I hear you’re saying you can do it cold, which I believe in, I mean, I was knocking on doors in 2006. Yeah. When people had the internet and people are going, no one is gonna buy books. People have the internet. And yet I made more money than I, than I had any of the previous summers. Like people will always buy from cold calling. It’s not the easiest most glamor, but it totally works. So
RH (12:38):
Here here’s, here’s the difference like you know, for example, way back when, when I first started social media was bashed by every guru and network marketing. So 2009, every guru that is now all for it was like, oh, that doesn’t duplicate, that’s too complicated. I remember going to a conference and you know, a leader, one of the leaders in the company came up to me and said, Hey you’re the guy that recruits a lot of people on Facebook. Right. And I’m like, oh yeah, you know. Yeah, sure. And he said, well, I prefer duplication. And then I’m like, okay, like I, I love that kind of stuff. And so, you know, five months later when I was the number one incomer in the company, I kind of, you know, waved home a little bit. And so like, I I’ve been through all of that.
RH (13:23):
Right now you, of course, should be teaching your team social media for sure. To me, there’s a distinction between teaching how to properly use Instagram, Facebook. How, how do you do reels even TikTok? Like all of those are free platforms. It’s when, to me, it’s when you start to get one level above that, an email list podcast blogging that requires specific knowledge and, and tools. I think you, you should be teaching social media to your team, you know, period that should, that should be part of, of the deal. So even now, if I was running a team, which we retired from building a team in 2016, if I was running a team right now and someone wanted to learn social media from me, I, I would teach ’em I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t charge ’em for that if they were in my organization.
RV (14:08):
Yeah. Let’s talk about that for a second. So like, what are, what are some of the things that you should be doing, you know, and, and for those of you listening, like I just wanna highlight and go network marketing is really just marketing. Like direct sales is really just sales. Like whether you happen to be, you know, selling a supplement and there’s some type of override or whatever, or you’re, you’re running a local donut shop. Like there’s not a lot of the, to a lot of the principles apply. They don’t always, but, so just kind of keep that in mind, but like talking specifically about network marketing, Ray, like if somebody was just starting out today and they just signed with, you know, whatever, pick, pick your, pick your marketing company, what, what should they be doing on social media slash with their personal brand to immediately drive like revenue for their business, new customers?
RH (15:05):
Yeah. And for first, just regarding like, you know, Hey, sales is sales, marketing is marketing the it’s, it’s smarter to think like a franchise, you know, there there’s a line in Michael Gerber’s E MIF book that says the reason McDonald’s franchises rarely fail is because they were designed to be ran by the person with the lowest level of skill. And so that’s how we think about all, all of our training. Can the person with no skill, no influence, no business or sales background, can they do this thing that we’re teaching? And if it requires those things, then that’s not good network. To me, that’s not good network marketing teaching. And so as far as social media, there’s, you know, there’s a few, there’s a few factors. I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s are factors to, will you succeed in network marketing or not pipeline, which is number of people you reach out to follow up with set appointments, with send samples to if that’s what your company does position understanding the position of the prospect when you’re in a conversation, right?
RH (16:08):
So if they havet express any interest, you have no knowledge. Then you have to see if they’re open first, not try to close. ’em See if they’re open three posture, are you easily affected by the opinions of others? Are you to believe in what you have regardless of external acceptance or approval and number four perspective, which is your, your mindset. So how does that translate to social media? Well, you have two categories, prospecting market, right? And so marketing the top of the marketing food chain right now, without question, there is no doubt is the short video we’re in the short video phenomenon, it’s unlike anything any marketer has ever seen. You know, like I was, you know, the last hot trend and marketing in my opinion was way back in, you know, late two thousands, which was Google AdWords and that’s, you know, advertising, but that was red hot.
RH (17:01):
You know, I was taught by a guy that was dropping $30,000 a day, but he was making profit $30,000 a day. And, you know, and it’s, that was crazy. There’s so many people making money on that. The difference now is you now have, have a way to reach more people that don’t know you than ever before and for free. And so, you know, we have students, we, we have one student, she’s got a video, it’s got 15 million views and she didn’t spend a dime on it. And that’s more than who watched the Olympics.
RH (17:53):
So if I was starting right now and I had, let’s just assume big goals, I would have a a prospecting number and I would have a marketing metric of at least three reels a day. So I’d be doing three reels a day. And this is, you know, just adjust if your goals are smaller. But if you, you have big goals, you wanna hit six, seven figures. I would be doing three reels a day and I would have a prospecting goal. And that, that is whatever you have the time for. You know, like when I, when I was serious about becoming the number one income earn, I set a goal of 20 nos a day. So I had to hear 20 nos that day, every day
RH (18:36):
So have a number of how many human beings am I asking if they’re open to my product service or opportunity per day. And that is the key question. Not how many comments am I dropping? Not how many friend requests am I sending? Not how many, you know, anything else, how are you today? Right? None of those I’m I’m saying how many people are you asking? Are you open to my product service or opportunity per day? You combine that with, you know, two, three reels a day optimal, you’re going to build a business and you know, it’s, it’s simple, not easy. And, and I found the no number, one reason that, that people aren’t consistent has nothing to do with tactical or nothing to do with routines or, or anything like that. And we can, we can talk about that if you would like, or if you have more questions.
RV (19:21):
Well, yeah, like I, I think that’s a good, that is good to talk about. I mean, when I, like when I was in college and I was knocking on doors, that was the whole thing was, was you have to do 30 demos in a day. Like you gotta just, you just gotta show this to 30 people who meet the basic criteria qualifications. And it was, you know, it was always, it’s not the theory of averages. It’s the law of averages. And if you show this to 30 people, one to two will buy it. Like no matter how bad you are, right. One to two people are gonna buy it just because they, they need it. And it’s, you know, hopefully it’s a good, it’s a good product. So like I, I do want to hear about the mental side of it. That one thing that I wanna highlight though, that you said that I really love is like, when most people teach marketing that are gonna teach likes followers, comments, shares, engagement, et cetera.
RV (20:15):
But when you said the focus is do three reels a day, which is totally in your control. Yes. And, and focusing on, or like the thing you can control. And it’s like, I don’t know how many views that’ll be. I don’t know how many followers I’ll get. I don’t know how many comments will show up, but like I’m gonna commit to three reels. Every single day is a hugely powerful shift. Just, you know, tactically mentally, even spiritually to go focus, focus on that. So I would like to hear more about why aren’t people consistent, cuz my guess is it has more to do with that perspective as you say that like mindset component. Yeah.
RH (20:58):
You know, I’ve cuz I I’m, I’m a, I’m a consistent guy. I mean I did, you know, I did a video a day every day for 12 years straight because I’m, I’m a lunatic and, and so people have asked me over the years, Hey, what’s your daily routine or how are you so consistent? And so I was, I was a little slow at learning this admittedly looking back, but for the first like five or six years, I would just teach years. My routine and people are like, oh man, that’s awesome. Thank you so much. Then they wouldn’t do it. And so like I’m, I’m like pulling my students. I’m like, Hey, who is anyone doing this? Nobody was doing it. And so I’m, I’m teaching. I’m like, okay, I gotta up my game. I gotta be a better teacher. And so I started asking myself, okay, why do I do it?
RH (21:40):
I’m like, okay. A vision, a vision of who I want to become. So I started teaching that probably five to 8% of people started doing it. And I’m like, okay, there’s gotta be another answer. And what I realized is that there’s two categories of people. There’s, there’s the people that are borderline workaholics. Like I was that are hustling, grinding and to talk about consistency is like that. They’re confused. Right? Why do people, why do do you mean cuz they’re, we’re just, we’re we’re just designed for this stuff and for me, and a lot of, of people that I’ve now coached that’s actually a coping mechanism. It’s actually a coping mechanism with not wanting to spend time with yourself or actually having low self-esteem, which, you know, I grew up in a very abusive home and I didn’t think that that was of affecting me anymore, but it was, it was due to some of those issues of why I struggled to be present with people, why I struggled to have great relationships, but I was always consistent at working the other 95% of people that aren’t consistent.
RH (22:45):
I have found 100% of the time. It is they’ve drawn the wrong conclusion to success based on an observation they made as a kid. Hmm. A hundred percent of the time. So if you had a a parent who was really, really successful and then lost it, all a program was most likely created in you that made you really scared of being ridiculed and never wanting to have a big fall. So if you are afraid of climbing the, of falling off the mountain, just don’t ever climb it. And so what’ll happen is people will get to this, this certain level. And then they’ll just find themselves either distracted, they’ll join a different company or they’ll just not be motivated anymore because past the level is danger. And so the program is there not to hurt you, but to prevent you from feeling a way that really scares you or becoming someone you don’t wanna become, if your parents were really successful and they ignored you, you very likely drew the conclusion that successful parent means ignore a kid.
RH (23:50):
And I don’t want my kids to feel that way. So I don’t know why I can’t get past this level. And you know, I remember I, I coached a lady Tara this was on clubhouse and she like so many people that I’ve I’ve, you know, coached sense. She would go into a company and just rock it up to the top, just crush it, just make it rain break records. And then she would find something wrong and, and leave. And everyone’s like, wait, she left.
RH (24:37):
No drama, no trauma, no abuse, nothing. And you know, they’re awesome. They’re perfect. I’m like, Hmm. Okay. And I know that at programs, often block memories. And so I said, Hey, it’s okay if we don’t, if we don’t, you know, figure it out today. And she’s like, and she remembers catching her mom cheating on her dad. Now five minutes before she said they were perfect. And I know, I know what’s going on, but she’s like, well, what does I have to do with my career? Everything as a kid, she was out of control. She had this perfect scenario was feeling really good about life. And then something happened outside of her control and her reality was crashed. So every time she starts feeling really good about something, she knows that she was about to. So she makes the choice with awareness of that program. She no longer has that program. So now she’s been able to rocket in her, the current company that she’s with. But that’s one example of, of hundreds of different examples. I’ve seen where something happened in the past. Like if we have time, I’ll give one, you know, one more example, you know, when people struggle with motivation,
RV (25:51):
I wanna hear this. I just wanna make sure I’m, I’m, I’m hearing you correctly. That basically you’re saying the reason that people don’t perform is because there is some underlying program that was written perhaps and likely subconsciously yes. From the time they were young yes. That they carry with them. It operates in the background and it basically sabotages them because they there’s this kind of underlying program that’s running in the background.
RH (26:27):
Yes, absolutely. And it’ll disguise it so off as overthinking perfectionism procrastination, or just lack of, of motivation like mine. The one that I discovered I’ve discovered, you know, several is when I was a kid in that house of abuse, some of the relatives knew that no one did anything about it. And so a program was created of, I’m not a priority that program you know, up until this last year, year and a half, I didn’t realize it. But I was that into every relationship I ever had, including the one with my wife. So I would locate and verify how I was in a priority. And that’s why I really struggled with relationships. And if you struggle with relationships, there’s, there’s gonna be a cap to how much impact you can possibly have. And, and so, you know, by me discovering my programs, I’ve been able, a lot of people discover theirs.
RV (27:26):
Yeah. And so you’re, and, and so that’s always there. I mean, all of us have something. I mean, there’s some, there’s something on the hard drive, right. So the you were gonna use one other, you were gonna tell one other example.
RH (27:39):
Yeah. so I was coaching a lady maybe a few months ago and she said, you know, I, I, I get to a certain level and then I’m just like, you know, I’m just not, I’m just not motivated. I know I could do more, but I’m just not motivated. And, and I asked her this very, you know, specific question I said, at what point in your childhood did you figure out that trying hard really didn’t matter. And she’s like, oh, you know, I remember this one day I used my easy bake oven to make these cookies for my dad. And I spent all day making ’em and I decorated ’em. I had ’em all perfect and everything. And when he came home, he yelled at me for using the, the kitchen materials. And man, I think that’s the last time I really tried hard in my life.
RH (28:28):
And so, you know, we’re that, that program is trying to prevent you from feeling that feeling again, it’s not is it’s, it’s trying to keep you safe. It thinks that it’s serving you and it doesn’t want you to figure it out. And so you, you have to do some pretty intense work to, to figure this kind of stuff out. And, but if you’re are not consistent, I guarantee you now, I can’t say that of everyone, but if you’re watching this, if you’re listening to this then, and you’re not consistent, it’s not because you’re lazy. It’s because you’ve drawn the wrong conclusion to getting higher than you currently are. Whatever that means, money impact following success, you know, whatever that means, but you’ve drawn a bad conclusion. There’s something wrong with you stepping it up. It’s something wrong with the next level for you?
RV (29:14):
How do you spot it?
RH (29:18):
The key is one not easy to do by yourself. The, the real key is patterns. Cause you, the decisions that you’ve made have been driven by have been driven by this, these programs, because before you’re aware, you’re on autopilot, right? You’re the puppet on a string. And, and so you’re just you knowing around the cliff, you’re going up and down and you’re making these decisions, thinking that you’re making the decisions, the program’s making the decisions, the program’s making, you see things in a certain light to keep you nice and safe. And so when you become aware, you can, you can become defiant to them. Right? So, you know, like the first time I really confronted my program of me not being a priority. It was a very tough time. My mind, I felt like I was under attack. I mean, my mind was going nuts.
RH (30:12):
And I just thought I was in a, you know, little argument with my wife and I, it came up. I, you’re not a priority, but it’s still a good relationship. That’s what my mind said. And I said, no, I don’t wanna feel that way anymore. I don’t wanna think that anymore. Cuz that’s not true. And
RV (30:44):
Mm-Hmm
RH (30:57):
I mean, that’s, that’s gonna vary based on, you know, based on your life, you know, that’s gonna vary on what, what you’re doing and, and what, you know, what it’s all about. Like, you know, for me, I can now once you become aware of it, you can kind of look backwards and, and, and, you know, like Steve jobs said connect the dots. Right. And and I can see that I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had that program my whole life I’ve had in every friendship, in every business relationship and every personal, I mean, in every relationship I was, I was seeking to prove that I was not a priority and I always verified it because we always verified what we’re seeking.
RV (31:36):
Mm-Hmm
RH (31:39):
So I know we kind of went from network mark. I mean, to deep, deep stuff, here
RV (31:43):
You go. We’re marketing to social media to sort of like limiting beliefs. But the, I mean, I, I think this applies a lot, right? Because a lot of people, I mean, people have the same programs about personal branding or social media, right? Social media is stupid. Social media is a waste of time, social media, whatever. And it’s like, well, there’s a reason why it’s not working for you. Right? Like that’s what you, that’s what you think about it. And it, it’s not the only it’s by, by no means the only way to succeed. But like those underlying programs I think are really, really, you know, they’re, they are really critical. And I think it, you know, tying back to my very first question about like, how do network marketing companies deal with how much flexibility or control they try to extend over the personal brands?
RV (32:30):
There is this old school thought of, I think that is for the most part, been pretty pervasive, which is control. Like we have to, we have to put a fence around our people and, and sort of like shelter them from the rest of the world. And that is really a conflict with like a whole world of decentralization where things are blowing up. Everyone has access to everything. We all see what’s going on in other people’s lives. We can talk to anyone around the world and it’s like, that’s a really big, you know, conflict that we’re, we’re, we’re wrestling with.
RH (33:06):
I, I just, I don’t, I, I just don’t see, you know, and we, I mean, we coach a lot of different leaders work with a lot of different students in different companies. I just don’t see the mega control growing nearly at the pace of some of the more freer companies. And, you know, we’re just, you know, it used to be like, okay, maybe you’re in, you know, whatever you’re in Alabama. And, and there’s only one company that you know of in your area right. Then, okay. You can kind of be controlling, but as soon as you start to ask your show, the question of what if I bring in a big doctor, what if I bring in an author? What if I bring in an influencer, as soon as you bring that up, it’s kind of like, well, well, we gotta accommodate them. Like, well, how can we, how can we say, okay, if you’re successful already, you can keep doing that stuff, but don’t, you dare try to, it just doesn’t make sense. Does
RV (33:58):
That happen? I mean, does that, I mean, I, I know that like oh,
RH (34:01):
All the time
RV (34:02):
Happen all the time,
RH (34:04):
All the time. I mean, so, I mean, I saw, I mean, we recruited one of the top I think like top 10 orthopedic surgeons in the country here in Naples, Florida, I recruited Ron LaGrand. You may know that name. I mean, he ran a, he still, I haven’t stayed in touch with him, but he runs a, a big real estate investment, you know, education company. I think they were doing 20 million a year. We brought in quite a few doctors actually brought in different authors, brought in different speakers for sure. And, and that’s something that a lot of these influencers, you know, they, they, they make money, but most of ’em don’t have residual income. So I, I, I think it’s actually very smart for an influencer if done, right. To have a network marketing thing on, on the background, on the back end, they don’t talk about it every, you know, real or every, you know, post, but to have one in the, in the background so that they can start to build more residual income, cuz most people don’t have that most business owners don’t have that.
RV (35:09):
No, but I think you, I think y’all one, one of the things I’ve been surprised is, you know, at brand builders group, we end up seeing a lot of clients that come to us. You have thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of followers. And they’re going all wanna write a book or build my speaking career, whatever. And we come to find out that somewhere in their back end, they have a, they have a network marketing and that like that a lot of their money comes from the, the, the thing that’s really financing the growth of their personal brand in many cases is more of the network, the network marketing backend. It’s not so much that they’re making money from their personal brand, it’s that they’re using their personal brand and they’re driving people to something on the backend. Like I’ve been shocked at how common that is
RH (35:54):
Very, very common. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a natural thing of if you, if you gain success and you feel that limelight in a network marketing company, cuz network marketing companies are amazing at edification, making people feel good, feel appreciated. And so you, you, you know, you get a taste of that and you know, you, you may get a taste and you’re at a point where to get bigger taste is a really big leap or you’ve already tasted all the limelight you can, you know, possibly get and you still want to grow. You wanna stretch out. And so it goes from being the person, you know, signing autographs in your company to getting people outside of your company, to know you, which is actually beneficial for the company. And that’s, that’s where, you know, some companies I think misunderstand think that they’re going away, they’re actually, you know, going out into foreign lands and, and, you know, informing more people about that company, if they’re treated right. If they’re not treated right, then a lot of times that influencer’s gonna make a different decision.
RV (36:52):
Yeah. Well, and I, you know, the thing I’ve always,
RH (37:45):
That, that’s a, that’s a great point. So when a new person would come to me and say, Hey, I wanna do blogging. I wanna do podcasting or whatever, I’d say, okay. You know, I, you, you certainly can now just understand it’s more expense of, and it takes longer when, starting than if you just follow the system. And so, you know, and, and nine times outta 10, I would talk ’em outta that fame because they think that’s simple, fast and easy. And, and it’s not, you know, it’s not simple, fast and easy build a YouTube channel or, or a huge following or a blog or, or a podcast. And so like, you know, I would always give, you know, the freedom of choice. Hey, you can, might take you a little bit longer than if you do it this way. And if they’re looking for speed, that’s really good advice because you doing the, you doing the basics of, of prospecting and, and, you know, basic marketing, you’re gonna get faster results than building out, you know, infrastructures. And, and so, you know, it, it is a good point. What a lot of, of, of influencers do is not what they did to reach the top. You know, a lot of them, you know, did you know, did the work prospecting, marketing the basics, reach the top then became an influencer and most, but most people don’t understand that. So you, you do need to teach that.
RV (39:05):
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s really similar to like, you know, people we’re really big on find your uniqueness, figure out the one thing that you can do in the world better than anyone else. And that that’s really how you break through the wall. Not by trying to talk about lots of things and lots of places to lots of different people and people go, well, what about Gary Vaynerchuck? And we say, Gary’s actually the perfect example, because he does talk about everything now. But in the beginning he talked about wine on just YouTube. And that was how he broke through the wall, right? Like in the beginning, the rock was just a wrestler in the beginning, Ellen DeGeneres was just a comedian. Like it, they, they, they all break through on the one thing it’s really similar to, to this conversation. And people need to be taught. Don’t do what they’re doing now, do what they did to get there.
RH (39:53):
Right. And, and here’s the thing about dub, how you generate a lead is not what has to be duplicatable, because if that were true, then you couldn’t, you couldn’t recruit an influencer, an author, you couldn’t recruit a doctor. You
RV (40:09):
Say that again,
RH (40:10):
The way you generate a lead does not have to be duplicatable. What you do with the lead that’s what has to be duplicatable. So if you’re relying on your, so however you generate a lead that does not have to be duplicatable because I know people you don’t, and that doctor knows has clients, and I’m not gonna tell ’em don’t you dare talk to your clients, cuz not everyone has clients like that would make no sense. It’s what you do with the lead. So if the doctor has a pamphlet in their, in their you know, office and people say, Hey doc, you know, you know, here, let’s just say opportunity. Hey doc, it says right here, I can make some, you know, extra money you know, is this something I should do? If the doctor says, yes, I highly recommend it. That’s not duplicatable.
RH (40:56):
If the doctor says, you know what? We have a short video and this is the video that will tell you if it’s a fit for you or not. And by the way, if you ever wanna tell other people, you’d use this same video, watch this video, see if it’s a fit for you. That’s duplicatable now is how he generated the lead duplicatable. No, and it doesn’t need to be, it’s what you do with the lead. So when I would have people come to me after building a brand and say, Hey man, I wanna work with you. I don’t know what company you’re in, but I’m gonna give you my credit card. I would, I would have that happen. And I’d say, Hey, I really appreciate that. That is awesome. Thank you so very much. But you know what? Let’s make sure this thing’s a fit for you. I’m gonna send your short video, watch this video. And the cool thing is that’s the same video that you’ll use. Okay. That’s duplicatable. It says, oh, oh, I must watch a video before I join this thing to kind of get the gist of it. Got it. And it’s the same tool that I would use if I rely on personality, charisma or influence, that’s not duplicatable. And so it’s not how I generate the lead. It’s what I do with the lead. Once they’re in the conversation, once we’re having that communication,
RV (41:55):
Mm-Hmm
RH (42:12):
Yeah. You know, if you’re a, you know, like a lifelong learner, like, like me, I mean I do self development every single day and I have for forever
RV (42:50):
That’s that’s I mean, if you made a video every single day for what did you say? 12 years. 13
RH (42:56):
Years. Yeah. I, so from Ja July 15th, 2009 to July of 2021, I made a, at least one video a day. And the only reason I stopped is I was in a meditation retreat. I’m just like, eh, I’m not gonna do it.
RV (43:09):
Yeah, that’s funny. I,
RH (43:10):
But then I picked it back up the next week.
RV (43:14):
Yeah. Well, I, I think you know, this is interesting Ray and I, I think to me, there is, there is the world of network marketing and affiliate marketing and info marketing and digital marketing all seem to sort of like be colliding, like as, as the tools are available to everybody and the lifestyle is available to everybody and people are more interested in freedom and, you know, time what’s, what’s your book, time, time, freedom, money, right?
RH (43:48):
Yeah. time, time, money, freedom, time,
RV (43:51):
Money, freedom
RH (43:52):
By hay house. Yep. That’s my wife and I wrote this and it’s you know, this is not specific to network marketing. It’s you know, 10 simple rules to redefine what’s possible and radically reshape your life. It’s basically what what I, I did to get out of foreclosure and, and build a, you know, a business and it’s what Jess did to get away from the makeup counter. And and so, you know, it’s helped lot of people inside and outside network marketing.
RV (44:19):
Yeah. Well, super thought provoking, man. Always great to connect with you. Thank you so much for your time and keep helping, helping people make rank, man. You’re you’re you’re doing it.
RH (44:30):
My pleasure, man. Thanks for having me.
Ep 286: How To Break Through The Noise with Lindsay Czarniak
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, y’all and welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. One of your co-hosts and I am so excited to have our guests on the show today. Lindsay is a newer friend of mine, but we have a really good friend in common Stephanie show stack. And as Stephanie was so kind to introduce us a couple of months ago, and ever since then we’ve had emails and conversations and honestly, Linda, like one of those people that as soon as you have a conversation, it kind of feels like we’ve been friends for a really long time, even though we just met a couple of months ago. And I love that about you. I agree. I think that’s so awesome. All right, so everybody, I’m gonna give you a super high kinda background on who is Lindsay Sarnia, and then I’m gonna let her introduce herself, but here are some of the professional accolades that you should know is that she is both an Emmy award and a Gracie award-winning broadcaster.
AJV (01:56):
She has been on NFL reporter with Fox, a NASCAR contributor, which means so awesome being from the south, you know, there’s always good NASCAR. I love around here. But she was also with ESPN for the best part of half of a decade. She was anchoring sports and sports nation NASCAR. Now she was the first woman to host the network’s coverage of Indianapolis 500 on E NBC. I mean, I could go on and on and on. She was, had this awesome podcast. She’s an artist, a future children’s book illustrator, which you said, just talking about. But also I think this is really cool. It’s like you didn’t just kind of fall into the world of sports broadcasting and journalism. You kind of grew up in that, right? Cuz your dad was a sports editor and a reporter. You’re also an athlete yourself.
AJV (02:52):
You played college lacrosse and field hockey. I mean I could go on and on and on. It’s like a two page highlight reel of all things Lindsay Sarnia but that’s just a high level and those are really just the professional things, not the personal things about who you are. And I’ll just tell everyone listeners, if you were just tuning in, stick around for this interview Lindsay is so down to earth. She’s so humble. She’s so cool. And she’s also done things in a very male dominated world, but somehow find found a way to break through the noise and really stand out in a pretty, I would say busy and noisy space and a really competitive one. So if you wanna figure out how to stand out, you need to stick around and listen to this episode. So Lindsay love show, oh my gosh.
LC (03:42):
I don’t even know how to follow that up, AJ. That was so nice.
AJV (04:32):
Oh, well the feeling is mutual. This has been so fun. Alright, so I’m gonna start with this same question I ask every single guest and this is really your chance to help our audience get to know you, but also kind of give us a highlight reel of how did you get to where you are in such a fiercely competitive industry. One that’s not saturated with lots of women. I imagine there’s been lots of peaks and valleys through this journey, but you have ended into this really amazing place and created a really amazing reputation for yourself that you are now going to be able to take and leverage through these all, all these amazing things. So I just wanna like give us a background story.
AJV (05:22):
Like where did you start and how did you get to where you are?
LC (05:25):
Thank you so much. I I mean on when I think about that and that question, I think about one specific moment in my career journey, because it was the moment that for me really was the pivot point that I didn’t, I never saw coming. I didn’t expect it. And it was so random because I simply joined some folks from my TV station I was working at to go take in a NASCAR race. Okay. So that’s where this whole thing took place and I’ll, I’ll get to that in a second, but I really do, as I look back the things that I think have helped me get to this place where I am now is it’s really all about the relationships. I mean, I, I really, and I don’t mean relationships of who, you know, to get to where you are.
LC (06:16):
I mean, the way you treat people, I really do believe that. And I think that that is so important and every step I’ve taken along the way at every different job I have had, I’ve, I’ve seen some example of that. I feel like from someone who has been either a mentor or someone just that I looked up to and I really, really believe in that I started out you know, I graduated from James Madison university. I wanted so badly to move to New York because I wanted to be on MTV
LC (07:15):
I think, you know, how you look back at different parts of what you’ve done and you’re like, oh wow, well that was what was getting me ready for this. Or that’s the first place that I experienced this. So I didn’t get a job in New York and out of college, I was trying to figure out where I, where I wanted to go. I had whittled it down to, I either wanted to work in like film. I was really interested in writing and I thought, well, maybe I could learn how to be a writer. And then eventually like create screenplays or I definitely, I have a passion for art and I thought, well, maybe I wanna go the direction to be, you know, an animation somehow and all that. But somewhere along the line, my senior year of college we had an opportunity to do a TV show.
LC (07:56):
And within that class, basically it was a practicum. We had to learn every single part of putting on a TV show of a broadcast. And when it was my week to do the hosting with a co-host, that was it like that’s all I needed. I was so hooked. I loved every second of it. I would’ve stayed in class for five hours if you could’ve let me, like, I was just so into what we were doing. It like lit something up inside of me and I was, and, and honestly I wanted to be like the music review person on our show. I just I’ve always had this interest and connection in like music and the way music makes people feel and the power it has. And it’s funny cuz now I see that also in sports, but to get to my pivot point. So I left JMU, I got a job at CNN in Atlanta and it was a behind the scenes job.
LC (08:46):
They have a program where you can start out and you’re called a video journalist and you start out, it’s all for kids that have come in recently graduated and you’re doing these entry level roles. Right. So I was really lucky to like to land one of those spots. But that also when I think back I’m like, man, I sat there on my computer. We barely had internet. I was like, just looking up these jobs. I don’t even know how I did it. And, but like somehow I found that job. So I moved to Atlanta and then being there at CNN, you know, I realized, yes, this is the industry that I wanna like definitely continue in, but I’m obviously not going to be on air and really earn like hone those reporter chops being at CNN. So I put together a tape. I helped like really by leaning on people that I was working with and being like, Hey, can I come in on a Saturday or can I come in on my day off and just rewrite this story that someone did and you can critique me or maybe I can pay my camera crew that really works at CNN, but I would pay them with six packs of beer in my grandma’s cookie
LC (09:52):
You know? And like I can, and then I would, I would pay an editor basically to put it together for me. And that’s how I put my tape together. And I ended up working in Jacksonville, Florida. That was my first on air job. And I really thought I wanted to do news at that point because I, I never saw sports on my radar. I loved sports. My dad was a sports journalist, but that wasn’t my, like not what, what really fueled me. Right. I was like, I wanna be a news reporter anchor, or I wanna do entertainment, something within that. Anyway. So I got a job news reporter in Jacksonville and around a year into that job, which was great, but it was great because it was the morning show. I could mess up a ton, which I did. And not that many people saw me.
LC (10:39):
LC (11:26):
It was men and women. We were hanging out with, it was a concert. We were where they were playing. And these guys happened to be with speed channel and speed channel was a channel that put on racing. And from that one interaction, they knew I was reporter. And in February, a few months later, Dale Earnhardt senior died the legendary race car driver. And they called me because I had met them and they said, we need reporters to talk to fans about what he meant to them. And we know you’re in Jacksonville, are you available? Could you come work for us? And my station, let me do it. And so that became this random thing where that snowballed into, Hey, we have an opening for a pit reporter in our really entry level racing series called ACA, are you available? And at the time in Jacksonville, they were like, well, yeah, if it’s on your weekends and you wanna go do it, go do it.
LC (12:17):
So I worked 13 weekends out of the year going and leaving my news job to go be this pit reporter. And I knew nothing about racing. I mean, I was walking into the garage being like, I mean, I can’t even tell you how green I was. And like what an idiot. I probably looked like asking the questions I was asking, but anyway, really to wrap this up, cuz now I’m so sorry. This answer’s like seven minutes. I.
AJV (12:41):
That’s awesome though.
LC (12:42):
Well, the station that I was working at where I was a news reporter that probably my last year there, they were going to cover the sports department. The guys were going to cover one of the races at Daytona and they were like, Hey, we know that you’re into racing. If you wanna come with us and just help us out. I was like, I would love to, I would love to go to Daytona.
LC (13:03):
I don’t have anything that day. Let me come do, I’ll just carry your equipment and bring you water, whatever. So we’re in victory lane waiting for the driver who won the race to interview him. And this camera crew from Miami, we we’re just talking, cuz we’re waiting. And we strike up this conversation and we were waiting for like an hour and near the end of the conversation, they were like, you know, we actually have an opening in our sports department in Miami. And the main part of that job would be to cover the dolphins. But we think that maybe you’d be really a good fit with us and would love for you to put your tape in. And I was like, what? That’s ridiculous. It’s sports. It’s not like that’s. They were like, well you’d be our third sports anchor. And anyway, so that was it.
LC (13:46):
Like I had I not gone to Daytona, had I not gotten that elevated interest in racing because of that meeting by happenstance in Daytona when I was just there on a weekend with one of my girlfriends none of that would’ve happened. And so I do think when I think back to my path, a lot of it is saying yes and just going for it, but also listening to that little nudge of, yeah, try this. Like don’t, you know, like, I guess in a way it’s like finding your gut and I used to be really, really, really horrible at that, but now I figured out how to identify it. Which is a whole different story in itself anyway. Wow. I know, I think there’s a lot of insight into that and you know, it’s like I literally pulled out my notebook and started taking notes because I think these are the great stories that are so often never told.
AJV (14:42):
And that’s what I love so much about getting to do conversations. Like this is a great reminder for both me, but also every single person listening that there is no such thing as an overnight success, you know, it’s like, I think the biggest challenge that we face in this world of instant gratification is we compare our step one to your step 1000. Yeah. Somehow think right. You know, we see Lindsay on ESPN or covering the Olympics or doing all these amazing things. And it’s like, oh, I wanna do that. But what we forget is, oh no, no, you started behind the scenes doing nothing on TV and working double time on the weekends, keep people in six packs of beer and saying yes to your weekends, giving up, you know, a third of your free time to go. What’s next? What’s next? Just saying yes.
AJV (15:35):
And it’s like, I was trying to count like how many moves you made before you got to be doing what you’re doing? Like that’s a lot of work. That’s a lot of commitment over a lot of years. And we it’s a lot.
LC (15:49):
That became like a in, in our industry. I think a lot of people have a similar background with that. And I, but I I’m always intrigued to hear people’s path and when they stopped because you do really, you know, the traditional path is that you’re hopping and you’re, you know, and I think also with that something you said made me think about expectations. That’s a really big lesson that I have learned and that I think for young people or folks coming up really in any industry, other people’s expectations, you know, it took me a long time before I realized like, oh, that wasn’t, that’s really what they thought.
LC (16:33):
I thought I should be doing that because that’s what everyone was saying. Or I can identify when people have said something that I got really excited about because I felt like maybe they were giving me an expectation or like they were giving me confidence by saying, oh no doubt. You’ll be here in 10 years. No doubt you’ll be there. And then what happens when you get to that point and your path has been different? Like there are so many ways that I think you can let expectations that other people have just kind of soak in there. Like we don’t even do it intentionally. You just, so I think that’s a practice that I have tried to figure out ways to squash is what are my expectations? What are like now that that life bulb went off for me. What, how do you in a healthy way, live with what my expectations really are for myself.
AJV (17:23):
And I think if I had learned that earlier, maybe I wouldn’t have been so neurotic and paranoid over stuff because also part of it is like those steps, most of them early on in my career, it’s like this drug, you’re like, oh yes, I got an offer from this place and you’re moving up and that’s the traditional measure of success. But there are definitely moves in there where it was like, this, this didn’t feel like a move up. This actually felt like a failure, but it’s gotta set you up for the thing that you don’t know because you’re not in charge.
AJV (18:07):
Totally agree with that. And it’s like, the moment that we start just, it’s just that the, the challenge of comparison.
AJV (18:13):
Right. And it’s like even comparing our expectations to what other people have for us and somehow going well, that’s what everyone else has done. Right. And it’s like this internal battle. And so I’m curious, like throughout your journey, do you think that there was ever like a time in your kind of career path and even maybe it’s still today, it’s like, like, was there a moment when you were like, this is my big break? Like, is there like a moment where you’re like, okay, like this is what I’ve been waiting for. So I wanna know one, have you had that? What is it? And then what do you think led you to it?
LC (18:50):
That’s a great question. I think I along the way, well, so I should probably give context on, I was in Miami working, you know, following the Miami dolphins. And the other thing with that job is I, it was part-time when I took it.
LC (19:08):
So it actually felt like a bigger risk because I was leaving a TV station. That was the first station that I was a reporter at, but it was there was just something about it. Like I knew the plus side, if I could make it work, if I could really like work my hardest and turn it into the kind of role I would want it to be as much as I could, that I felt like the upside really outweighed the risk. And so I also had, I have like a circle, you know, of people that I’ll I’ll bounce off of. Right. And it seemed like, okay, this is pretty much a no brainer at this point, but I will say also the expense of that was relationships. There’s no question like it was, I was a disaster at dating, like because well, I, I actually had a really great long term relationship and, but I, I made the decision to follow the career and that impacted things in a horrible way.
LC (20:03):
And how could it not? Right. But like, that was just a lesson that I learned early on and it was like, so it’s funny cuz there, it also sometimes feels like there are so many different lives that I’ve lived
LC (20:52):
But for me, that Washington move because of the man that I went to work for, his name was George, Michael, and not the singer, but the, the sports broadcaster. And he had a show called the George Michael sports machine and in the nineties it was in the late eighties, it was legendary. It was honestly on before sports center and it definitely played a role in the way that ESPN came on the map and did things because he was showing people highlights before they could do ’em. Anyway, he was a legend in DC and he called me out of nowhere and he called me, I found out years later because he saw me when his son-in-law was watching racing coverage at his house with his daughter. Okay. And they, and I came on TV as a pit reporter and they needed to fill a role, the woman that they had had left.
LC (21:43):
And he liked my work, I guess, and, and was like, so he called me out of nowhere and it was awesome. It was an awesome, like compliment and a great opportunity. And you add to that, that it was an opportunity for me to go home. But I got so terrified because that was the first place that I had been in my career where all of a sudden things were going really well in Miami. And they were saying, Hey, stay here. This is what we’ll offer you to stay here. And it was this weird, like I found myself in this sort of like conflict of negotiation for the first time and I turned it down. I turned the job down and I think I know in my heart, part of the reason I turned it down is because at that time I looked at going home as a quasi.
LC (22:26):
I don’t wanna say failure, but like I, to me, I was on this role in this drug of like hopping every two years, where can I go? I’m thinking like, oh my God, could I ever make it to New York? Or could it be LA or could it be Chicago wherever? And I never saw the amazing opportunity to go home cuz it was a huge market, but there was something in my psyche that was like kind of worked with that thinking. And so I turned it down cuz I was like, I’m gonna, I wanna stay in Miami. I, I would like to do some morning TV. They were offering me a role to do that. And the second I turned that job down, the second I made the call saying, no, I knew I had made this horrible mistake. Like I knew there was. And that was for me the biggest eyeopening moment period in my career that helped me identify like something about myself.
LC (23:15):
Because up until then everyone would be like, well, what does your gut say? What does your gut say? And I’m like, I don’t know. That’s the problem. And my problem is I realized what I do is I will pull people until the person that I want, like until the person gives me the answer I want to hear. And that’s what I was doing. I was like going around and around and trying to get someone to say, go to DC. Like this is such a great opportunity. Go, go, go, don’t look back. But I feel like people, even in my circle like agents and whatever, they were like, mm, I don’t know. I’m not sure. So anyway, I’ve kind of gone off on a tangent, but that was a absolute big break for me because he brought me into that market and really just did it in such a way.
LC (23:58):
I had to go back on my decision to not go and call him and, and find out if the opportunity still existed. And I don’t re recommend that for anybody like my own dad told me not to do it. My dad was like, do not do that. That’s ridiculous. And I was like, and, and actually someone I worked with at the time in Miami was like this, you will, you will kill your career. If you do this, if you call him back and I couldn’t not try it, I could not not try it because I just knew. I was like, this is, that is where I need to be. And if there’s any way to be there, then I need to do it. So I sat at a car wash and I wrote down my conversation points on this napkin. And I called George and I think I got his voicemail and I left him this, what I thought was succinct, but probably like really long message and was like, I have made a mistake.
LC (24:48):
And if there is any chance that that opportunity is not filled, I would like to talk to you about it. And that was it. He called me back and he was really gruff. But at the end of the day, he was like, we’re gonna bring you up.
LC (25:47):
And the security guards there, like loved George because George would, he knew everything about them. Like he knew about their families. He treated every single person, the exact same. And, and he also did things behind the scenes that nobody ever knew. He did like just being a good person. So really long tangent,
AJV (26:04):
That may be the favorite part of my story. Like your story that I have heard is the fact that you said, I don’t care what it costs. I know I’ve made a mistake. I have to call this person back. And he went against everyone else advice and said, no, I feel it in my heart. Like I have to call him back.
LC (26:24):
It was so bad that, I mean, I literally remember that person, you know, a friend of mine looking at me and saying, this is, this is career suicide. And I knew that when my father was like, don’t do it.
LC (26:39):
Like I really put stock in what my parents say. And especially my dad cause he is in this industry, but I woke up the next morning after making a decision to stay there and listen, I love Miami. It’s my top three places to vacation. It was such a dream to live there. I love the people I worked with truly and the bosses and the crew I was with every day. But I was like, I just, I know with every fiber of my being that this is not what I’m supposed to be doing, but I knew also that if the ship had sailed and if I couldn’t get it back then I okay. But like I just really needed to try. And I had one person at the station who was feeling familiar with George, who actually I leaned on. And he was like, I think if you really want to open that door again, I think he will listen, but you have to know that he might not.
LC (27:30):
And you also might have to know that this is going to be very bad here, like meaning. And I do take that very seriously. Like that was not a professional move to go back. And to like, that was a painful conversation to have to go back to the news director and the general manager that really believed in me and say, I have made a mistake and I, you know, want to investigate,
AJV (27:53):
Oh my gosh, like, this is like, I think this is revolutionary for every single person who is listening, who makes choices for their own life out of fear of offending someone else. Yeah. I think this is hugely how many people are in the country right now in the United States, in a job, in a situation where they know they shouldn’t be there, but they don’t have the courage to do something that’s uncomfortable.
AJV (28:21):
Like that’s, that is the, that’s the era that we’re living in. It’s like, instead of having a difficult conversation, we’d rather make ourselves miserable or live and regret instead of going for what could be a life changing experience.
LC (28:37):
Yeah. You know, and to that point, I think it’s interesting because I do think some of the younger professionals are catching on quicker to that because, and I, I don’t know. Maybe you can lend your thoughts to this, but like my husband and I will talk about this sometimes because we are sort of, you know, coming up in the traditional old school era of, of this. Right. But some of the younger professionals who are like coming up as entry level, or they’re maybe a step above that, I do find that they’re not afraid to talk a lot more about what they need in terms of mental health.
LC (29:15):
Right. In mental health, in that aspect. I think that’s hugely important. But I also, I do give kudos to them because things, some things that I see people doing now I would never do. Cause I would’ve never had the guts to say, wait, I they’re, they’re asking for a day off because X, Y, Z you know, I think to a fault I would not have done that. Right. But yeah, you know, that, that decision, I think if it didn’t have the home factor of it also, it would’ve probably been a, a, I don’t know how it would’ve turned out. I think that definitely was a big piece of it. Because it ended up that that was just such a wonderful experience, you know, but it was definitely a growth,
LC (30:05):
I was people off, like to get to the place where I, I, like, I basically had to decide for myself, is it gonna feel better at the end? What I’m weighing this PO like potential on, is that possibly better than what I know I’m about to do by making a slew of people really mad and also about your business, about the reputation. I mean, that, that matters. And so I just think that that is really important to listen to, like, and I guess for people that are in a similar state, it’s like, is there something gnawing at you that you do realize is it’s a gut feeling or it’s just a feeling of taking a chance. Like sometimes also, I don’t know if you ever felt this way, Jay, but it’s like, I’m so grateful for my, for being so naive in certain circumstances early on and now, but like there are rooms I walked into sometimes and I’m like, just thank God that I didn’t take an extra moment
LC (31:10):
And like, I just feel like there’s so many ways that I sort of protected myself by just not realizing the gravity of something. I don’t know it’s at all.
AJV (31:21):
I think that, I think there’s a lot of weight in that. I remember we started our first business in a 2005. And for even listening at the peak of 2005 was really like, this is the heart of the recession. And here we are, these, you know, four naive, specifically three of us. I was 22 when we started our first venture, it was fresh outta college and was like, they can do it. I can do it type of mentality. And our ignorance, our naive to you was the number one thing that helped us move forward because we did not know what a good market looked like. This was just the market. This is just how you did business.
AJV (32:00):
It wasn’t until years later that we realized, oh, wow, that was like serious. But we were so dumb, young and naive that the gravity of the situation was so far over our head that we didn’t even understand it to our benefit, to our benefit. So OK. You brought up two things and I know I’m watching the clock be sensitive to your time, but you brought up two things that I wanna touch on. And you mentioned reputation mm-hmm
AJV (32:52):
I’m just like, I wanna know, like, what do you think are keys to building, you know, this, you know, rock solid reputation where even in the midst of decisions like this, and you’re people off your reputation stands because people know that, you know, you do what you say you’re gonna do, and you do it with kindness, but you do it with confidence and clarity.
LC (33:13):
Thank you. I think that you know, using that, that decision as an example, I didn’t have much other than being apologetic and explaining myself truth and honesty for the people that I was saying, Hey, there’s been a change. Here’s what I’m going to do. Right. I had to take it. I just had to suck it up and take what they said. And, you know, I knew that there was a great chance that they meant it when they actually said we would never hire you again.
LC (33:45):
I mean, that was true. Right. That’s what, what, and I, I understood, but I had sort of braced myself and I felt that like, I felt very badly about it. It wasn’t at all. Like, I felt like, well, here I go. I’m okay. It’s it like, that really kind of sucked. But like I said, I had already made up my mind that I’m going to, I’m going to push for this and I just have to be ready for what comes and then go. I think once I took that step and went to the station in Washington, it was all about me just feeling like I really had to start from the ground up in terms of everything that I was soaking in, everything I was being taught, the role I was gonna do, you know, I had confidence that I knew at that point then, like I was getting better at being on air because that’s a whole different thing.
LC (34:29):
Like when you’re in your first on air jobs, the first time I went live on TV, they turned on the red light and I like, nothing came out. You know what I mean? Like I was in a Christmas tree farm and I’m like, oh, this is, this is when I talk
LC (35:11):
Like I am going to teach you basically like my ways. You’re going to understand why, what we do, where we work is super successful. And like, and so, and I loved that and I was ready to soak that up. So I kind of went into that and was like, just, I wanna be a student. I wanna learn, you know, not like, I didn’t know anything, but I definitely had that kind of approach. So I think being open to those new experiences and again, just being a good person, but also, you know, in the nature of what my business is, a lot of businesses is it’s, you almost become like a family with the people that you’re working with. And that’s really important and truly like caring about those people matter. So that was something I definitely had mistakes. I mean, there was one time I remember I had voiced a story that I did on a baseball player, one of the Washington nationals players.
LC (36:08):
And I tracked my voice, which means that I laid my voice down over the story that people are gonna watch on TV. And I did it. And George was probably out doing like the five o’clock news while I was recording or something, five o’clock sports. And he heard what I had put down on tape. And I was halfway home to my parents’ house going to have dinner. Cause they had invited me to dinner this one night and he called and he was like, Zac, this is garbage. Get back here. So I had to turn my little Honda civic around and go back and track it. Like, I don’t think I ever made it to my parents’ house for dinner that night. But the reputation that was, that was how I had, I sort of had a new opportunity right away to build it, but it mattered how I performed.
LC (36:50):
And also it mattered because of the caliber of people that George Michael was like his group of people in the market and the people that were his sources, they were the coaches of the teams, the general managers. And so I had to really listen and learn how to carry myself and the way that was sort of to his professional standards, which is, was a great standard. Right. Wow. But so that, that was the immediate and I think long term after that is when I went to ESPN and from then on, it’s sort of like a different set of just different experiences and lessons that I’ve learned, but they all circle around that same thing. It all comes back to the way you treat people. I do think the competition grows. I had never seen competition. Like I saw at ESPN when I got there and for a large part of it was because also I wasn’t used to working in sports with other women so much, like you’re, you’re always working around other women who are at other stations and that’s awesome cuz you’re like, you become this like group of women that you see each other at a basketball game.
LC (37:55):
And you’re like, oh, Hey, you know, channel four, channel nine, channel seven. But at ESPN it was the first time that everyone has a role. And there are like so many people left over that also want those roles. And it’s like, EV you know, it was a great experience in terms of like the people I worked with and I loved the work. I loved the work. But like everyone found out what their schedule was through the same computer system. And you had to go at the same time and look, so there’s a level of competition that doesn’t exist other places because it’s this constant, okay. What, what am I on? What am I doing?
LC (38:33):
What is you know, so it was just a different beast. So I don’t know, but that, but definitely something that shaped. Yeah.
AJV (38:42):
Well, I’d say the thing that I wrote down, the thing that I captured that I think is really applicable universally is really coming with a student’s heart.
AJV (38:52):
Right. I think that learning mindset of, yeah. Yeah. I, it’s not that you don’t know anything, but you also realize you don’t know everything. I think that’s a really big deal of staying humble and going, like, no matter where I go, there’s more to learn. And I just, you know, I just think about like, even when, where, you know, recruiting new team members, it’s like, you know, it’s not only is it a core value, but it’s like personal growth is a requirement here. And it’s like for the person who thinks there’s nothing left to learn, it’s like, well then there’s just nothing left for you to learn here. So, but it’s like the moment that we have that mindset of I’ve got it all figured out is the moment where it’s like, that’s a slippery slope. So just even staying in this, like what can I learn from this situation?
AJV (39:36):
What can I learn from this person? What can I learn from this job? I think is really important for us all to go. There’s always going to be something else to learn no matter what it is, like every stage of life. And so, okay. So here’s the other question I have for you. And I wrote this down because I think this is a huge thing that everyone struggles with. And we live in this world of video. Like video is everywhere. It’s in emails, it’s on social it’s it’s, every algorithm is waited to video. And there’s simultaneously this huge fear of being on video. And, you know, it’s like to what you said, it’s like that red light goes on and all of a sudden, all of your personality goes out the door. It’s like, who are you? And where did you go?
AJV (40:20):
Right. I am, what are some best practices? Like what should people learn to do to be better on video? Like what should people be doing other than clearly doing it, but how do you, how do you actually get better? How do you be yourself on camera?
LC (40:37):
Well, okay. I’ve got one piece of advice that I, I learned when I was at CNN. I think it was the anchor, Darren Kagan. I remember where I was sitting when she told me this trick of the trade and I wasn’t even on camera then, but I was just picking her brain, like, what are you? You know, what, what are things to learn? And and I really do think that this applies to anybody who’s, you don’t have to be a reporter. You can be doing videos or whatever it is, but her thing, this did apply to a live shot.
AJV (41:05):
Okay. So in news, if I was doing a report taking you back to like the Christmas tree farm, right? Never memorize everything you wanna say like that. So here here’s what, and I still do this. Right? Cause it just made so much sense. She said, take what you’re trying to say. Okay. So we can say for our purposes, AJ, that it’s like a report that I’m trying to give, or maybe I’m trying to just shoot a video at my house of like how I cook orzo pasta salad with my kids. Right. Or think about what the three and just because rule of threes is pretty great for everything, but like think of three things that you’re trying to say, three things that are like the nuggets. I also just had a conversation with a girlfriend of mine where we were talking about simple something similar, cuz she’s launching a book and she was saying, I’m having a hard time talking or I wanna know better ways to talk when people are asking me about like the real nuggets, I’ve got so many I wanna pull from, but I get lost with the traffic of just trying to talk straight.
LC (42:03):
And I said, think of them like peppermint pets. That’s my favorite candy. Okay. So think of it. Like the things that you’re most excited to share are the little minty center. Okay. And you’re putting this chocolate coating on the outside of them. So what you’re doing is you’re picking three things like today, I’m doing a video about why goldfish cheddar are my favorite things on the planet. Okay. So the first thing I wanna talk about is the bag, because it’s so easy to open. The second thing I wanna talk about is the art on the front because I love art and anyone that is an artist should want these. And the third thing is the fact that it’s like a cheddar burst, right? Like in your mouth. So those are the three things that I would have in my mind. Highlighted. Maybe you take a post-it and you just write those three words on your post-it and the words only are bag to open, you know artwork and then cheddar pop.
LC (42:54):
Okay. So you are never memorizing the words that you’ve written out in sentences, but what you’re memorizing are the, like the points it’s like the passion points of what you wanna talk about because all like this day and age too, people really just wanna see people who are real and whether you’re doing a news report or you’re talking about a sports, you know, some competition that’s a little different because you’ve gotta follow, you’ve gotta get certain things out like the Xs and O’s or the, the details of whatever event you’re covering. But if you’re giving just a video or you’re talking to people or you’re doing a seminar, that is a really great way, I think, to build a strategy for just being conversational. And even if you struggle with being conversational, once a light goes on, you’re going to be 10 times more conversational, truly just sharing with me why you’re excited about opening this bag versus the bag on the top is very easy to open because there’s no way you’re gonna remember all those words.
LC (43:49):
So I, and I learned that too, the hard way after that my friend shared that advice. There were times I would go on the field and I would like write out my whole script of what I wanted to say, but I’ve had it happen definitely more than like 10 times where if you misspeak or you like skip a word, then you forget all the rest of it. So it’s sort of like a protection for that too. And I think the more conversational, the better, that was a really well, I love that. I love that of just like you should be able to fit your entire video script on a post-it note. Right. Because you should know the content so well that you’re just, and that also that exercise helps you speak it from what you know, and that in itself is being your most authentic about what you’re talking about.
LC (44:36):
And some stuff don’t get me wrong. Like if you’re doing a news report and you’re talking about an oil spill accident, right. You can’t, you’re not gonna go. Yeah. Right. But you can still do that. And then, I mean, to get like in the weeds with the newsy side of it, those facts that you do have written down are things that if you’re looking down on your paper, that’s okay. Just like any videos you’re doing. If there are times where you look down, because you’re trying to get stats out about someone you’re interviewing, that’s fine. Like you don’t have to memorize all the other stuff. You know,
AJV (45:06):
I love that. It’s like the more conversational, the more authentic, the more relatable it’s gonna be, but honestly the less pressure that you put on yourself. Yeah. And the more like I do think one of the things that I did when you mentioned at the beginning of this, how I made a note of this, because when you mentioned the Gracie award, that that to me was like such, just like an awesome unexpected honor, because first of all, that was like Gracie.
LC (45:37):
The awards are for it’s women who do things that are like influential news or otherwise, whatever. And I remember when a colleague of mine, when I was at ESPN won one of those awards and I was like, oh my God, that is the coolest thing. And I don’t even know, like, I forget what hers was for, but this was, that was for a conversation I had with my mother-in-law on Instagram. Okay. So it was when George Floyd happened and I felt really helpless and my husband’s African American, I felt like I, I didn’t know what I could do to like, just anything to make an impact. And I just wanted to be able to do something. And my mother-in-law has so many great stories and so many really important lessons and things to learn from. And so we were talking and I said, Hey, would you, how would you feel about doing a conversation about race with me?
LC (46:31):
And she was really open to it and we did it and it was shocking. I didn’t like, I never expected that that would happen, but it was so shocking the engagement of it, because I think people that were watching were like, whoa, I’m asking like really dumb questions. So I felt like I should really know the answer to, and I should have paid attention to a long time ago, but her answers were just, some of them were jaw dropping. So anyway, that led to them asking us to do a radio hour on that conversation. And I, she joined me, my mom joined me. I had a psychiatrist join us. And another friend of mine, who’s an author. Who’s anyway, who’s biracial. It was, but that, so that meant so much to me because that was something that was completely just super out of response to something that had happened.
LC (47:16):
And we weren’t trying to get engagement. I was just like, how can I have a conversation? So I think there’s a lot of that to be had now. And so I think like what we’re just talking about with practices of on video, anyone can do that kind of thing, you know? Right. That proved that to me because I was like, wait a minute, if we’re sitting here, someone’s saying that that was impactful to do that. Like, wow, look at the power of social media, you know?
AJV (47:42):
Wow. And let’s look at the power of real life conversation. Yeah, yeah. Is scripted. This is not planned out. There’s not high video production. We don’t have a film crew with graphics and bumpers and overlays and all this fluff that people get overly consumed with. And it’s like, no, have a real conversation about real questions and real struggles that real people are going through.
AJV (48:11):
And it’s amazing that that’s, that is what would take off and get so much engagement and get you to the place that people recognizing this. And it’s like, I mean, don’t, you sometimes think it’s like, think about how much you’ve done in a really planned formal professional setting versus the things that you do that are just from a place of deep desire of like, I just wanna do something. I just, I wanna help. I don’t, I don’t wanna sit in the background. I feel called to this and do that is what goes, quote, unquote viral. That’s what people want. It’s you said the word it’s like, I truly, the word relatable, I think is everything I really do. I mean, I’ve, I feel that way in sports. I think it’s what, it’s what creates fans around a team or a player, because there’s something that jogs, you know, that makes them feel like, oh, that person has something that’s speaking to me, but I think you’re exactly right.
LC (49:12):
It’s like the the calling feeling a calling to do it and then just taking the step to do it. And, and you know, what else, I guess, in a way it’s like using your, all you had to do to do it is using your God given ability. Right. Or like the ability that you’ve honed a bit or whatever. But I just, yeah, like, so that was really, that was a very eye opening thing for me, because I was like, here I am like, I, 10 years ago I saw that happen. I, and I actually was like, oh, I wish I could do that someday. And like earn one of those award. Like that was so weird that that would be what it is. So there, there is a definite lesson in that I think there’s immense power and you know, for us and anyone who’s listening of going like at the end of the day.
AJV (50:01):
And it’s like, we can hear it a hundred different ways. And I love hearing this perspective and this angle from you today. And at the same time, it’s like, we hear it all the time. It’s like be you right. The more relatable, the more personal will, the more authentic you are, the more people will love you or not, but that’s okay. That’s not your audience. Yeah. But like when we try to be somebody else or try to be what somebody else tells us to be, it is never gonna work in our favor. It’s like, cuz you’re not, you’re not being you like that to me is like, we just can’t hear that enough because there’s such a fear of, wow, I don’t wanna offend anybody or don’t wanna ruffle any feathers or what if I look dumb? What if I sound dumb? You know? And we don’t do it.
LC (50:51):
Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I agree.
AJV (50:56):
I think that’s so, so good. Okay. All right. I have two quick, rapid fire questions for you. Yeah. This is such a great interview. Thank you so much. Like I love as we talk for another hour and I would be like, I know I have five more questions. I have five more questions, but I really, I’m only gonna give you two. I wrote this down in the very beginning. And this is just to help our audience get to know you. And one of my main things is I care much more about who you are than what you’ve done. And so I’m just so curious when you were this little kid sitting in front of MTV going, this is the dream. Like what was your favorite music video? So what’s your favorite music video of all time?
LC (51:32):
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, so all time I would have this, this is like a measurement of a swath of time. It was the cars you might think foolish, you know, that song. Yeah. The cars because that was that symbolized. What MTV could do. They were flying the fly. Remember the Rick, what, what’s his last name? The lead singer of the cars. His face was on the fly. Do you remember that video? It was sort of video. Yeah, it was kind of like animated. There was that one and then there was the 99 red balloons, but this song that it was like, every time it came on, I was like, yes, it was sister Christian. Do you remember that song? I can’t remember that song, Christian. Oh, the time has come. And then also white snake here I go again on my own. That’s awesome. So yeah, so good. Like that’s what hooked me, but I mean, you know, as the decades went on and I continued to watch videos, I had plenty of other examples, but those were like my beginning ones that I was like, this, this is awesome. I love that. That’s so funny.
AJV (52:42):
Last question. What do you want people to know about you that no one ever asks you? Oh, that’s a really hard one. That is a hard one. Other than you love goldfish. What’d you say the gold that you love goldfish.
LC (53:01):
Maybe that I think everything in life relates back to fishing and I love fishing. Fishing is one of my favorite things to do. And it’s I think it’s because growing up, especially when I was a kid, we would always go surf fishing at the beach when my family would go to the beach in the summer. And it was something that I would get up and do with my dad. He would wake me up and I’d always be like, oh, because it was like 5 45, cuz it’d go really early. But I loved it so much and that I definitely am like a morning person and I love that time when no one’s awake. And if you’re out in nature, like if you are at the beach and you’re fishing, that’s great. I also feel the same kind of way when I’m in a race track and it’s early morning, there’s just something really special about the way that a garage or even like a barn, if it’s horse racing, like the seeing things come to life.
LC (54:01):
So I think that’s something I really just love that I love fishing and I love the act of when you feel like you have something on the line, there’s not much more, you know, in life like that. I think that’s a really relatable thing. Like you’re feeling the tug of catching something. And maybe that’s why I was a reporter and I got adrenaline junkie by like the boob every two years. You’re like catching a new fish. I don’t know. But but I really, really, really love that. I love it. Well, this is like the beginning of like this future life of you being like the spokesperson for like bass pro shop or something. Well, you know, I have thought like there have been a lot of fishing shows out there, but I have thought maybe there’s a type of fishing show that people haven’t seen that you know, maybe that’s in my future. I don’t know. That’s never, never, that’s probably not like the pro angler, but I do really enjoy just especially when you’ve got a good old fashioned Bober and you watch that thing go under the water. That’s pretty satisfying. That’s awesome.
AJV (55:07):
These, this is so much fun. Thank you. So for coming on and if people wanna learn more about you and if they wanna connect with you or follow you on social media, like where should they go?
LC (55:17):
I think the best place is my Instagram is Lindsay CZI, so I don’t, it’s not Zac full it’s Lindsay CZI. And that’s probably a great place to start. And so I just, I do I do a joke of the day that I started during quarantine with my kids. So if anybody has any jokes, suggestions, I’m all at ears also because we’re still keeping that going.
AJV (55:38):
So, oh, we got silly dad jokes for days over here. I’m gonna yay. Y’all, I’ll put all of these details in the show notes. I’ll put all of Lindsay’s handles in there. Go follow her, give her some good jokes. And Lindsay, thank you so much for being here. Love this so much. Wait again, me too. You’re the best. Thank you. So stay tuned for the episode and we’ll next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 284: How to Double Your Business In 12 Months with AJ Vaden
RV (00:02):
Oh, we have a special edition today. Super special very uncommon format where you actually are going to get to hear from our CEO AJ Vaden. My co-founder my wife, of course, and she is actually going to be our guest. So obviously, usually either her or myself are leading the interview today. I get to play the role of interviewer. AJ is going to play the role of interviewee and our guests, because we’re gonna talk about something that is really, really important and really, really powerful, which is how to double your business in the next 12 months. AJ, as you know you probably know many of her credentials for being with brand builders group, but one thing you may not know about AJ is that she also is a million dollar producer. She is someone who spent personally produced over a million dollars a year in revenue by herself, many years in a row, both in as a in a speaking business, a consulting business, a coaching business. And so she just has a lot of experience growing businesses, coaching businesses, consulting, speaking. And that’s what we’re gonna talk about today. Specifically, she’s gonna share some tips on how to double your business in the next 12 months, AJ made and welcome to your own show. We’re glad to have you,
AJV (01:23):
RV (01:29):
So yeah. So talk to us just a little bit about, I mean, obviously most of the people listening here know about brand builders group, right. They know what we do. But tell us a little bit about your past like pre brandand builders group. What were some of the types of businesses that you built? How were you a top producer and, you know, just what were some of the different business models that you were involved in?
AJV (01:53):
Well, it’s not me. It’s not just me. It’s us. It was our I think most of you probably know that brand builders group is Roy and I second business together, but a little known fact, I’m not sure how many of you listening know this, that we were actually business partners before we fell in love and got married. And so we started as business partners and then broke the Cardinal role fell in love, got married. Luckily 15 years later, it’s it worked out, it worked out in our favor. But prior to brain builders group, you know, we spent the first 15 years of our professional lives building a coaching speaking consulting, training business, but it actually started as a seminar business. So in the first four years of our very first business we lived on the road full time lived in 14 cities and five years was moving pretty much every 16 weeks for the better part of four and a half years putting on large motivational sales conferences.
AJV (02:57):
And that naturally involve evolved into a one-on-one coaching business, which then involved into a consulting practice. We started a speakers bureau brew. It, it was very successful. And when we departed from that company and sold back our equity to our former partners we had over 200 coaches. It was well into the eight figures business. On the coaching side, we had a healthy, a seven figure consulting business, a healthy seven figure speaking business. And so there’s lots of different components of, of what we did, but it naturally evolved over time from large public seminars to one on one consult or one-on-one coaching to full service consulting. Did training as a part of that, and then also built a speakers bureau.
RV (03:44):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (04:36):
Yeah, well, it’s not just double your business. It’s really niche down to a really important sub segment of all the audiences we serve, but it’s one that’s really near and dear to my heart and it’s coaches, speakers, trainers, and consultants. And part of why that’s really important to me is I could still consider myself one of all those things. But that’s really where I started. It’s where I grew. It’s it’s challenging, it’s hard and it’s as everything is challenging and there’s pros and cons to any business out there. I know this business, this world inside and out, and as a part of brand builders group, a huge part of our community find themselves in one of these categories. Even if it’s not their full time right profession, but they do consulting, they do training, they do speaking, they do coaching, they do all these things.
AJV (05:28):
And many of you want to figure out how to make it your full time gig, or maybe you’ve gotten into one of those. And you’re like, oh, I do not want this one particular piece to be all that I do, but I want to do these other pieces. And I think this is a really interesting, unique part of my life and my past and my expertise that I can really lend some really good solid tips and techniques. But also mindset to help any of you who are in that particular business model of a coach consultant, speaker trainer really truly help you amplify your business and, and double it in the next 12 months. And I think those are the things that are really unique. But I think they’re applicable to any business, as you said, it’s how to double your business, but we put together this training webinar hyper specific to that niche group of individuals, trainers, consultants, speakers, coaches to help them leverage five simple ideas, five simple. And I didn’t say simple, not easy, but five simple things that you can do to start doubling your business. But I do think there’s universal appeal and I think anyone can do that, but this specific training is really unique to that. So that’s what it’s all about.
RV (06:40):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (07:44):
Yeah, it’s, it’s a really simple answers. They try to do it all
AJV (08:27):
And at the end of the day, what, what happens and what I find so often for so many of these individuals, is that the reason you started this is cuz you loved doing what you wanted to do. And now it’s the least amount of time that you do it. It’s like what you did is you loved coaching or you loved speaking and you loved this, but it’s like, that’s not the only part it’s like, you gotta have contracts and agreements and signatures and sales calls and follow up emails and, and interviews. And you track people down and there’s customer service issues. And it’s like, there’s all the different things that start distracting you from keeping the main thing, the main thing. And that’s, that’s the biggest thing. And I find it’s distraction it’s that your, your attention is pulled in so many different areas so quickly, cuz there’s so much to do. And then in really in order to be really good at any of those things, you have to practice your craft, which means you need to be reading and learning and going to conferences and getting coached yourself and networking and learning in all these different atmospheres. And guess what? That takes time too. And let’s not forget any amount of time for yourself, your spouse and your families. Oh yeah. That’s important too. And so I think time distraction is really the number one thing that gets in the way of people scaling this kind of business.
RV (09:48):
Hmm. Yeah. That what you just said there, I think is absolutely true. Right? You start because you go, I wanna help people. I wanna make a difference in the world. Like I wanna change lives. I wanna meet people. I wanna like, see, look people in the eye and like share with them what I know and how I’ve helped. And then it’s so quickly can turn to invoices and bills and taxes and technology and operating systems and payroll and, and you know, documents and all of that stuff. Like this is a little bit of a dis a little bit of a disheartening reality, I think in, in, in many cases. So, so what are, what are some of these things that you’re talking about in terms of how to double the business or, or, or what are some of the tools that you think can help alleviate some of that pain and help experts, coaches, consultants, speakers, authors, help them actually make more money, faster, get back to spending more time doing what they love and, and return to the original reason they started in this space.
AJV (10:48):
Yeah. So in the training webinar that I host, there’s five things that we talk about that will help you double your business. I won’t probably have time to go into all five of those today, but we’ll cover as much as we can, but here’s one of the things that I thought was really interesting when putting together all of this information, which really just started as some value add for our brain builders group, community, our audience people like you who are listening. And I started looking at all these different research reports that were out there about the coaching industry and I found some really staggering statistics that made me stop in my tracks and go, I’m gonna spend a little bit more time here because I really just naturally got curious about, wow, like I wanna learn more about this phenomenon that is coaching training consulting.
AJV (11:33):
And where is it trending? And how does that relate to what we do in personal branding? Right. and I just think personal branding is applicable to anyone who has a reputation. All of you, everyone who is listening has a reputation. But there’s, then there’s a really unique group of people where the more dependent your business is on your reputation, the more important it becomes and being intentional about that reputation, which is personal branding. And so I was spending some time looking at some of these stats and here were a couple that really stood out to me that I thought were fascinating, is that right now coaching, the coaching industry is the second fastest growing industry in the world. Wow. It’s the second fastest growing industry in the world. And some of the backup statistics around that I thought were equally as interesting this year alone it’s, it is expected to exceed a 20 billion industry.
AJV (12:33):
Wow. And I thought, well, that’s a lot of money out there. How many people are involved in this? Right. And so on LinkedIn, and now this is just on LinkedIn, right? I thought this was so fascinating. If you just type in coach as a title on LinkedIn, there are more than 4 million people just on LinkedIn that have the title as coach. Wow. And then I narrowed it down to just the United States and in just the United States alone, it’s approximately 1.8 million people who have the title of coach. And so I got really sucked in one day like really sucked in and I probably spent an hour scrolling all these titles, scrolling all of them. Because I wanted to know like, what kind of coaches are these? Like who are these 1.8 million people? And how come I’ve been in this industry for this long? And it doesn’t seem that prevalent.
AJV (13:31):
Now I know there was a season a time where it’s like, everyone was a coach, right? You’ve got spiritual coaches, dating coaches, marriage, coaches, life coaches, business coaches. In fact, I remember being at a networking meeting. This was probably, gosh, it has to be 10 years ago. Right now has to be 10 years ago. And I remember being at this networking meeting, I think it was like a BNI meeting. I used to be like at every single BNI meeting I could go to. And I remember introducing myself and someone said, well, what do you do? And I said, I’m a consultant. And they said, oh, you mean you’re unemployed? And I was like, am unemployed. And they said, well, I just figured like most people who say that don’t have jobs is that the reputation that coaches and consultants have is that they couldn’t cut it at what they’re doing.
AJV (14:27):
So they go off and do something else, like the old saying, it’s like those who can’t do teach. And I was like, that’s some serious BS. Right. I was like, no, I’m employed. And I’m doing really well. And I’m a consultant. I was so offended.
AJV (15:19):
And so when I saw that number 1.8 million people, I was just fascinated around who are all these people. And so I started going through there and, and where are they? Yeah. They’re apparently they’re everywhere. Apparently they’re everywhere. But then it, it was really interesting cuz I was scrolling through all these titles around, this is why people think we’re unemployed. And I looked at those titles and they were so vague and so generic and so general that as I was scrolling, even someone who was in this industry who dedicates her life to helping people in these industries grow and build their businesses, build their reputations in these fields. I was really thinking through here would never hire. You don’t even know what that means. And I was like, whoa, pause right there. And that was like one of the biggest aha moments of going, I’m putting a training together.
AJV (16:15):
I need to talk about this because these are the same problems that I suffered from our team member suffer from our clients are friends suffer from, is that someone says, what do you do? And he says, I’m a life coach. What is that? And what do you do? And you hear that term so often, or I’m a business coach, I’m a sales coach. And those were these like wide broadening terms that I kept running into. And then it just started like triggering the triggering, that old experience that I had from this BNI meeting where they go, oh, that means you’re unemployed. And then it just all hit me at once. It’s like, yeah, like that is the problem. It’s because we’re not clear on what we do and who we serve as the coach, the consultant, the trainer, the speaker. And instead we go, I can help anyone with anything which why they have this, these ridiculously broad terms like life coach, like what can you help me with exactly in my life?
AJV (17:14):
Like, what is it exactly, same with business. There’s so many different things. And we try to be, you know, the master of many thus while mastering nothing. And then I tie that on all in with what we do at brain builders group. And that’s one of these things, all these dots started connecting for me and it’s like really, truly to break through. She hands’ wall. We talk about this all the time. Like to break through the wall, you need to become known for one thing. Yet most of us try to do everything we say yes to everything. Right. I did that for years as a consultant, they were like, well, can you help me with this? Sure. Can I’ll figure it out before I invoice you. Right. It’s like I said yes to whatever it was leadership. Sure. Marketing, sure. Sales, sure. Retention.
AJV (18:01):
Sure. Can you help me with collections? I think so. Yeah, sure can do that too. It’s like, did it matter what it was? The answer was, I’ll figure it out. And I think there’s a time and a place for that and that’s really short lived and then you need to figure out what exactly am I supposed to be doing and who am I supposed to be doing it with? And for, and then I ran into a few of these titles as I was having, like these revelation moments of these are all the mistakes I made. Right. I did it for years and it was really hard and it was exhausting, but it doesn’t have to be that way. It really doesn’t. And then I started running into some titles that said this high business growth coach for young CEOs. And I was like, BA click.
AJV (18:47):
I wanna see what you do, why I’m in a high growth business. And I’m a young CEO. It was so clear. It was so clear. They had niche down so much that I could literally just read their title and go, I think they could help me. Right. And then I saw other ones that were like, you know, a financial growth coach for small businesses. I was like, what do you do? I wanna go to your website. And then I started like paying attention to which ones caught me. And the ones that caught me were really, really specific. This is actually something you say all the time I steal it, but I always give you credit. Oh, okay. It’s the more specific, the more terrific, right. It’s like, however cheesy that is. I have never forgotten it. The more
RV (19:33):
Cheesy, wait a minute. We weren’t talking about cheesy. We were talking about brilliant, but okay. I’ll take cheesy.
AJV (19:39):
Brilliant. Yes. But the more specific, the more terrific. And that’s a huge part of this. It’s like, if you really want to double your business and double your income, if you really want business finding you, if you want other people to explain what you do in layman’s terms, without them having to go to your website, it needs to be that clear. You need to be able to niche down so that anyone who knows you, who has heard of you, who has worked with you can say exactly what you do and who you do it for in one sentence. It is so important for the ability for other people to think of you and to refer you to people because they think about what you do and who you do it for. Right. And I think about like us at brain builders group, like we see all the time, it’s like we help experts become more well known. And then I thought about the first decade of my life as a consultant coach speaker, I had no clarity. I was like, I can help any sales team grow revenue. Oh, well how specific is that? And it was like, then it just dawned me as I was reading through all of is like, they aren’t clear on what they do. And for someone who’s just scrolling of going, what do you do? It’s gotta be that clear in your title. So it’s, it’s ne it’s, nicheing down. It’s getting so specific that someone can read your title, read your business card, right. Scroll through literally a one line statement on your LinkedIn profile and go, I want to learn about how you could help me.
RV (21:15):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (22:15):
Yeah. Like one of the things it’s like, and I think about this in my own life, it’s like, I have, as you know, I have a business coach and I have a life coach. Right. And it’s like, both of them, their reputation preceded them. Right. And it wasn’t like, I probably would’ve just picked a random business coach or life coach off of a LinkedIn title. But it’s enough for me to go. I want someone like that. And so I always think about it. It’s like, do my friends, family, acquaintances, you know, people that I’m in the community with. Do they know what I do that specifically? And it’s part of, it’s a conditioning. Like people ask me all the time. I get asked this all the time. How can I help you? And I’m like, the next time that you hear someone say this, refer them to me. And it’s like, you gotta help people think about you. It’s like, when they say this, refer them to me, that’s how you can help them.
RV (23:12):
Yeah. That’s really good. Those literal like kind of triggers like yeah. And I think about like our speaker friends, like when someone comes up to you after you’re on stage and they say, how do I get to be you mm-hmm
AJV (23:47):
It’s speech down. Do not in general, do not be broad. It’s like, you are not a life coach. You are not, you, you focus on some component of life. What is that? Is it spirituality? Is it health? Is it mindset? Is it nutrition? Is it relationships? You do not talk about life. There are so many things to life. It is impossible, right? So it’s like, tell me exactly what you’re gonna do for me in my life, in my business, with my financials, with my team and with my leadership potential, like it’s not a leadership consultant. Like what part of leadership, what part of sales? What part of marketing, what part of business get so clear that it’s polarizing? And that, that is like, it’s not just get clear on what it’s like, be so clear. It’s polarizing. People need to say, I don’t need that. Or where have you been my whole life? Right. It’s like, here’s my money. Or I’m just keep on going. It needs to be that clear.
RV (24:45):
Yeah. I love that. And again, so the, the URL is double dot brand builders, group.com, double dot brand builders, group.com. You can watch this whole free training. We got a couple minutes left here still.
AJV (24:56):
I got two more. I got, I’ll go fast. I got two more. All
RV (24:59):
Right, go
AJV (24:59):
For it. I’m gonna start, I’m gonna start the second one with a story. So about a month ago, I was on a podcast with this amazing interview with Mo tepo right. And we were talking about negotiation and sales and mindset, right? And the reason that people aren’t sometimes considered good negotiators mainly by themselves or good sales people. And the reason is why. And we have a, a a distorted view of what is negotiation and a distorted view of what is sales. And that’s really true, right. I used to be embarrassed to tells people that I was in sales because I didn’t wanna be viewed as you know, that old cliche, a used car salesman today is the proudest thing. I tell people I’m like, I might be a CEO and I might be these, but at the end of the day, I’m a salesperson.
AJV (25:47):
And I now hold it in such high regard because it’s a skillset that’s so few really possess. And I have come to learn that over the years. And I really took for granted the sales skills and sales training that I was able to get at a really, really young age and just get beat around
AJV (26:42):
So they don’t talk about it. And instead of leveraging the people who know us and trust us and like us the most to help us grow our business, we somehow think finding strangers on the internet is what’s going to be this, the solution. How bizarre is that? Just stay with movers for a second. Just take a moment and think about the people who love, trust and believe in you more than anyone else. How much time do you spend with them talking about what you do? Do they know what you do? The clients who serve their results, do they know? And then think about how much time and energy you spend on trying to attract complete strangers who have never met you before to buy your products and services.
RV (27:28):
Mm
AJV (27:29):
It’s bizarre. Y all it’s crazy. And it’s because we don’t wanna come across as salesy. We don’t want to rub anyone the wrong way or offend anyone. And here’s the real problem is you’re only concerned with yourself. You’re so focused on what, how I don’t wanna look, you pay no attention to, are there people right in front of me who need what I do or do they know someone who needs what I do? And so I believe in something called the six foot role and the six foot role means that you have to be willing to tell anyone within six feet of you about what you do it is that simple, not always easy, but simple. And that is because you feel compelled to talk about it because you were that passionate about it, because you believe in what you can do so much, that you cannot contain it because you have seen lives change.
AJV (28:25):
You have seen businesses change, you know, the transformation that will happen with the work that you do with people. So you feel compelled to share it. It’s not about a sale or marketing or being self promotional. It’s about being of the belief and of the mindset that I do. Something that has the power to change your business and change your life. So, yeah, I will tell any single person who is in six, within six feet of me, about what I do, because I believe in it. And that’s a di a slight shift in mentality. And I’ll give you two quick examples about this. And and then we can just like, kind of go from there, but there are two things that I have found
RV (29:00):
In that that was fired though. Like just to put a punctuation point on like that little clip, like we have to cut that clip for social media, like rewind that and listen to it. Like that was so powerful. And, and you nailed it. Like, we’re so afraid of how we don’t want to look to people that we are ignoring all of the people who are right around us, who need what we do like that is that so sorry to stop you. But that was just like,
AJV (29:31):
Why preach
RV (29:31):
It preach it? Vaden
AJV (29:32):
Believes that some sort of digital marketing tip or some social media formula somehow going to help your business grow it ain’t let me just be honest with you. It’s not, what’s gonna make your business grow is getting incredible results for people and having the courage to ask them to share it and having enough courage and belief in yourself to talk about it and to put yourself out there, right? You don’t need clients from around the world. You need clients in your own community. It’s amazing to me that some people and it’s amazing to myself, right? Our, our, our mindset is so limited. It’s frightening. And we were at a, a recent brain builders group event that I had the privilege of MC and one of our customers was in there. One of our clients and actually has a very expensive package.
AJV (30:19):
It’s a six figure package. And she needs like 12 clients who are willing to pay a hundred thousand dollars with her on retainer for what she needs to do to hit her goals. And and I just, I paused and I said, you know, Joe, can you just listen to yourself for one second? And you’re like, I need 12. And I’m like, no, you only need 12. There are 358 million Americans. You need 12. What’s keeps for some perspective here. Y’all and it’s like, we get so consumed. Where am I gonna find the next person? And it’s like, let me say that one more time. There are almost 360 million Americans. There are almost 8 billion people on planet earth. Most of us are looking for 30, 40, 50, a hundred clients. That’s it? Y’all, that’s it. You do not need to look outside of your own, you know, zip code to find 10 clients you don’t, but somehow we’re trying to far reach far and wide, and we’re not looking right in front of us.
AJV (31:21):
It’s a huge miss. And I just one I’m super passionate about the second thing that I was gonna share is that most of us miss opportunities, because we’re not present in the moment. And I’ve got two stories about this. I wanna share. We’re so sucked into our devices that we can’t see human beings all around us. We’re so sucked into catching up on texts and emails and posting on social and trying to get ahead that we forget the people who are willing to buy our products and services are sitting right next to us on the bleachers. So what if we’re a second, you actually engaged in human conversation? What would that do for you? If every single time you had a spare moment in line or sitting, or on an airplane that you weren’t sucked into some sort of technology and you actually engaged in actual conversation, how much business could you get from just that?
AJV (32:09):
And it’s free. Y’all two quick stories. One of the best consulting clients I ever picked up, I picked up at a softball game brewer. You should probably remember this story. Mm-Hmm,
AJV (32:51):
And he said, oh, they’re on the same team. And he goes, what are you doing here? And I said, oh, I’m here to watch my husband’s niece, Peyton play softball. And he goes, no kidding, Peyton, Gale. And I said, yeah, Peyton, Gale. He goes, that’s my daughter’s best friend. And I said, no way. I said, hi, my name’s AJ Dayden. I said, so what do you do that? You’re reading this book. He goes, oh, I’m the VP of sales for this, you know gifting company. And I said, really, he goes, what do you do? And I said, oh, I actually help individuals. Like you build and grow their sales teams. He goes, what do you mean? And I said, I work with a company that does sales consulting. That specifically is looking to help improve their sales team and their sales processes and sales philosophies.
AJV (33:30):
And he goes, can you tell me more about that? He ended up being one of my best clients of all time, that one conversation at a softball game because of a human conversation led to a book, being sent a conversation, being had a proposal being accepted and more than $350,000 in business, because I was willing to have a conversation with someone sitting on the bleachers at a softball game. It would’ve never happened. If I was stuck in my phone, texting, emailing it, would’ve never happened if I wasn’t just willing to say hi, how are you doing right? More recently we were in The Bahamas for mother’s day. I told my husband here on this interview with me. I wanna go to The Bahamas from mother’s day. So that’s what we did. And we were our second day and our also our second trip to the water park.
AJV (34:18):
And it was at the end of the day. And it was a long day. And so I walked over to the Dery shack because that’s what I’m gonna do on mother’s day. I’m gonna get myself a Dery. And there was this very sunburn gentleman in front of me who was very hot and sweaty. And he had his two daughters and he was like, had a whole tray of drinks. And he was getting these lemonades for his kids. And he looks back at me and he could tell, I was also really sunburn sweaty. And at the end of like the five hours at a water park, and he said, you’re having fun. And I said, I am sits in a long day, but I’m having fun. I said, how about you? And he goes, yeah, we’re here on a big family trip. And I said, that’s awesome.
AJV (34:53):
And I said, your, your little girls are so cute. And he said, thanks. And I said, I do have kids. I know I’m by myself. They’re over there in the pool. He said, where are you in from? I said, I’m in from Nashville, Tennessee. And he goes, let me guess, you’re a musician. I said, I’m the least amount of musical talent on planet earth. He goes, wait an actress. I said, Nope, definitely not that. And he goes, well, what are you doing in Nashville? And I said, oh, my husband and I have a personal branding firm. I said, we help entrepreneurs build their personal brands. And he said, no. I said
AJV (35:38):
And I said, guess what? That’s what we do. We help people actually build their speaking business, craft their content and become better speakers and get booked to speak. He goes, you do that for people like me. And I said, I sure do. And I said, do you have your phone on you? He goes, yeah. And I said, pull up your phone type in www dot brain builders, group.com. So he pulls it up and I said, go to the about S page. So he pulls up the about S page. I said, scroll down. He scrolls down to the very end. You see that person right there. He goes, yeah. I said, that’s me. I said, that look really different. Not in a baby suit. I said, that’s me. I said, that’s me and my husband. This is our company. And so I took him to the next page and I said, scroll down.
AJV (36:13):
You see that little button where it says, request a call. I said, click that button. And I said, there’s a little form there where we’ll actually give you a free call to see if we can help. And if not, we’ll send you a bunches of free resources. And if so then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll help you build your personal brand and we’ll help you go speak all around the world. And he said, are you kidding me? I can’t believe I’m staying online. And I just met you. I was just telling my wife about this. And I was like, I don’t believe in coincidence. So click that button. Y’all wow. You have to be welling to tell anyone about what you do. If you believe in it, the person sitting next to you in the bleachers or the, you know, sweaty sunburn person and head of you at line at the Zachery, you know, at the Dery shack at the beach, it’s gotta be compelling. It’s gotta be just coming out of you. And it’s like, maybe he got a call. Maybe he did. And I haven’t looked it up. The point is, is I’m not afraid and I’m not ashamed cuz I don’t find it as self promotional. I’m like, I believe it. So I’m gonna tell you about it until the point where you go. It’s not a fit and then that’s cool too, but you cannot be embarrassed or ashamed about it. You wanna know why your business isn’t growing. You’re not telling anyone about it. That’s why.
RV (37:26):
Hmm. Wow. That is so good, babe. Like you all need to go watch this training and spend time with AJ double dot brand builders, group.com. She’s gonna walk you through this and just give us like 60 seconds this free training. One of the reasons that we put it together is we, we are launching a program, something we’ve never, ever, ever done before. Just give us a little 62nd hint on, on what, what that is.
AJV (37:58):
Yeah. I mean, this it’s part of the webinar too. Is this doing all this research? And again, coincidentally running across this research report, which I truly don’t believe in coincidence. I believe God puts every single thing in my path. It’s just, am I alert and aware? Am I present enough to see what he’s doing in our life and in our business? And I don’t believe coming across that study and getting sucked into this deep dark hole of wow, like that is what I struggled with. I just don’t think that was on accident. I think it was well intended. And a few of the things that I think are really unique is that one of the reasons that people really struggle with this is they don’t solid content to jump off of. Right? It’s like they know that they wanna help people. They know that they wanna coach or train or consult or speak, but creating content is freaking hard work.
AJV (38:46):
Y’all like, let’s just like, it is, it is work. And it takes energy and time and resources. And personal branding is a really popular topic right now. And we get approached all the time by individuals who are going, man, I don’t wanna be like a personal brand strategist with you, but I wanna be able to teach personal branding to my executive clients. Right. And they’re, everyone’s asking about like, do I need a personal brand or what is it? Or you know, how do I become more well known or in this age of there’s a lot of distrust in the marketplace, how do I create more trust? And so one of the things we said is like, well, we may not be able to do everything for you, but what we can give you is a really solid set of content that we know works.
AJV (39:27):
And that we wanna be a launching pad for people who claim themselves as consultants, speakers, coaches in this world. And we wanna be a launching pad of giving the tools and the resources. We’re not gonna give it all to you. Right? Part of this is like your own unique twist, but we’re gonna give you the, the certification and a personal branding curriculum, finding our brand DNA to give you that launching pad of content where you can take someone through a really secure methodology and a process of helping them identify their reputation and use it to help ’em grow their business. For those of you wanna be speakers, it’s like some of the, the hardest work is like, how do I get everything I wanna say about something into 60 minutes, right? It’s easy to talk for hours. It’s really hard to talk for a little bit of time about something really important.
AJV (40:10):
So we’re gonna give you a keynote. We’re gonna give you a webinar. We’re gonna give you all these different tools to be a launching pad for your business. Now for us, it’s unique in that personal branding reputation space, but I really do believe it’s like everyone has a personal brand. If you have a reputation, you have a personal brand. It’s just a matter of how we, we leverage that to help you become an expert or be known as an expert in your space. And that was the Genesis for all of this. And then along the way of going, maybe our curriculum isn’t for you, but you just need some, you need some insights of what really works and what doesn’t. And that’s why we put this training. You know, this free training together for you whether or not ever licensing our content or being a part of, you know, our community is a fit for you.
AJV (40:54):
We wanna give you free resources. And I’d say, that’s one of the things we talk about in the webinars, don’t be afraid to give it away. People are like, I’ve had a few people who are really close friends of mine who were coaches watch this. And they’re like, aren’t you afraid that you just gave it all away? And I was like, no, no, absolutely not. I was like, I’m gonna give it all. If I had two more hours, I’d give away some more stuff. It’s like, don’t be afraid to give it all away. This is, if you, like, there are two simple formulas to building relationships, give value, build trust at the end, give so much value that the person says, oh my gosh, I feel like I have to pay you for this. Right. Give so much value that they feel compelled to go.
AJV (41:35):
What can I do for you? Like I just learned so much, like I cannot believe how much you gave away in 60 minutes. Like, why would you do that? That’s how I want you to feel. Cause that’s how you should feel. That’s how you garner trusted followers and you don’t need millions of ’em. You need a few, remember you don’t need millions of clients. You don’t need thousands of clients. You don’t even need hundreds of clients. Most of you just need dozens of clients. Right. and it does, you don’t have to do a whole lot of work to get that, but you gotta, you gotta do some right. You gotta do some strategic things to help minimize the distraction that you’ve got in your business. And so this webinar’s gonna give you five of those.
RV (42:11):
Oh, so good. Again, check out the webinar, double dot brand builders, group.com. AJ goes through us whole training about how to double your business in the next year. Also you know, at the end of that, she’ll talk to you a little bit more about kind of our licensing pro program and what we’re doing. And there’s so much it takes to start a business. Creating content can be one of the things that we can take off your plate. I mean, our content has been so proven and well utilized the last few years by very, very recognizable personal brains. And also those just starting out. So we’d love for you to be a part of that. And we have
AJV (42:43):
No shame in saying we believe it is freaking awesome. We have awesome contents.
RV (42:49):
Our content is awesome. You
AJV (42:51):
Should not be ashamed either, right? It’s like brag on yourself because you believe in what it does. I got no problems bragging on Roy Vaden, who is the mastermind behind most of our content. It is life changing. It works. It’s methodical, it’s systematic. It’s all the things it’s entertaining. I will, I will happily sing our contents phrases and yours Rory because I believe that’s, if you believe in what you do that much, that’s what you should be doing. I believe in ours that much.
RV (43:21):
Well, thank you, babe. And, and thanks all of y’all. If you, if you are interested in that you wanna go straight to learning about the licensing. If you go to license dot brand builders, group.com, license dot brand builders, group.com, you can go straight there and start learning about that right away. But if not go to double dot brand builders, group.com. Listen to this training with AJ. Thanks for being here. We love you. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 282: Turning Your Lifestyle Into a Business with Natasha Stoneking
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. One of your co-hosts here CEO of brand builders group. And y’all, this is such a special treat today because I get to have an old friend on the podcast and you guys are about to meet Natasha. But she and I actually went to college together and completely lost touch for like several years. And then we both ended up in Nashville. And most recently I think this is like at the beginning of the pandemic. I don’t even know if you remember this, but we ran into each other at Starbucks. And I was like, I’m pretty sure I haven’t seen you like 10 years. And then from there I started following you online and following your blog and you’re doing so many cool things online. And then one day I remember being at green Hills mall and I was walking around.
AJV (00:49):
I was like, pretty sure that’s Natasha on that.
NS (01:55):
Well, I’m thrilled to be here with you guys. Thank you so much for having me.
AJV (01:58):
Oh my gosh. It’s gonna be awesome. And so we start every episode with this kind of same, and, and I told you right before we started, you’ve had approximately two minutes to prepare for this
NS (02:17):
Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, a lot of people in social media kind of just stumble into it. And I was working in, in corporate media marketing for a big consulting firm and was just kind of doing the eight to five Monday through Friday, but not getting to use my creative brain, you know, which is what you and I studied at UT in advertising. And so I started a blog in April of 2008, which is crazy. Like I’m about to celebrate almost 14 of blogging, which, you know, back then there was no hashtag ad. There was no, you know, sponsored posting. There was no monetization of blogging whatsoever. It was mainly me sharing recipes, media events, things going on in my life in Nashville, just as a way to kind of document my life and serve as an online kind of creative journal, if you will.
NS (03:08):
And so I started doing that on the side and it really kind of picked up in 2010 when I got engaged to my now husband, Jeff. And that was pretty much when Pinterest started becoming extremely popular and everybody wanted to know all about wedding inspiration. So that was pretty much one of the early focuses of my blog and all the social media channels. And that’s where I developed, you know, an audience in a community of people who wanted to follow along. And so from that, it was all things wedding. And then we, you know, got married and got pregnant and that it was instantly all things, pregnancy and motherhood and nursery and home design. And so the cool thing about my social media channels is that it has absolutely followed me through a lot of the chapters I love and all of those peaks throughout my life. So it’s fun to see. So many of the people that have followed me since day one, believe it, or, and they’ve seen me, you know, go from a corporate marketing manager to running my own e-commerce business to a full on life and style blogger and kind of navigating all of those different paths.
AJV (04:11):
Oh my gosh. And you said something that I think is so important and it’s actually something that we talk a ton about at our company brand builders group, as we talk about how it’s like to really become known for anything, you have to become known for one thing. And to hear you say that it was like really where your following started was in that wedding niche. Yeah. And then was
NS (04:32):
So crazy to me, but there wasn’t a lot of bloggers back then. Yeah. There was a handful of us. And so I think obviously the pickings were a lot slimmer
AJV (04:41):
But it’s like, I think that that’s prove such a great point. It’s like, it’s like go all in on one thing that you’re super interested in that you’re super passionate becomes really easy to you build a falling with that and then let it naturally and organically evolve from there. Yep. And I,
NS (04:56):
It actually resonates with your audience a lot more and you build that relationship it and that rapport, and most importantly, the trust.
AJV (05:05):
Yeah. Well, I think that’s huge. And it’s like, because now it’s like you, do you talk about so many different things? It’s like, you’ve got cooking recipes, you’ve got fashion, you’ve got tips, trends, favorite things that you love, you know, you still have your girls on there all the time, which I love, of course it’s such, such a family component. But you talk about travel a lot. And I love, you know, learning about your properties that you have in 30 a, and it’s like all these different cool things that it’s evolved to. And so I’m curious, and rather this is just what you’ve done naturally, or maybe there was some logic and science to it. I don’t know. I’m so curious to see what you’re gonna say, but how do you decide what is gonna be the thing and the topic that you’re focused on?
NS (05:45):
Well, obviously I think a lot of that comes from just real life. What do I have going on in any, you know, any given day, week or month? And, you know, I sit with my assistant Ashley and we kind of, you know, strategize on a social media content calendar, what things are coming up, you know, obviously Easter’s on the horizon or summer. So we’re thinking of family stuff. We’re thinking of spring break plans. We’re talking about upcoming summer destinations. So all of these things a lot, you know, just go along with this season, but I’m also thinking about what do people wanna hear. I mean, a lot of times people come to social media for an escape from the real world, but I’m also just very blatantly honest. I think, you know, I kind of show different facets of my life, which is how I’ve kind of moved more into life and style rather than just family or just fashion. You know, I get, I can get kind of bored of just showing fashion or just showing my family because I think there’s so many different things that make me, me, and I hope that that kind of, you know, helps people to understand I’m just like them.
AJV (06:45):
Yeah, no, I think that is true. And I it’s like, like even I had all your stuff pulled up even before getting on here. And it’s like, I love too of like how much of it just reflects your personality. It’s like, it just everything you do screams you. And I think that’s really a huge part of just being authentic and probably why your followers continue to grow, grow and grow as they are. So I have a couple of like odd questions that I think would be just really interesting for all of our audience of do you find that there are certain things that you post that you just know, I know this is gonna, this is gonna be a win or are you always still kind of guessing of like, I don’t know, I don’t know what’s gonna be the most liked or the most shared or the most engaged. I have no idea.
NS (07:27):
Oh my gosh, I wish I knew the algorithms and how they’re always changing. And I wish I could predict all those things. I think if there was one source of content that I know is always is going, you know, to get lots of likes or comments or feedback, it’s gonna be me posting the kids. Everybody wants to see Caroline in Carson. I mean, I’m biased, but I think they’re adorable.
AJV (08:47):
Oh, I love that. You know, and I think that speaks true. It’s like, you know, and one of the reasons I’m asked is like, we’ve been doing a lot of split testing with our different social channels and I can post a piece of content and then I can post pictures of me and my kids in our Halloween costumes. And that will get 100 times the engagement that my piece of content did. And I, I think it speaks a lot too. It’s like people really want to know more of who you are versus what you do. Yeah.
NS (09:15):
Right. And I think that’s also why videos, reels, and stories are. So I think more and more brands and retailers are really spending their, you know, ad dollars on the more video type of things, because you can really get to know somebody, you can see it in action and use, and it’s not just a pretty picture. And, you know, kinda like what you said, the ones where from doing, you know, a selfie of an outfit in my office, they always get better engagement rather than a style photo shoot because that’s not real life.
AJV (09:41):
Yeah. I love that. So, okay. So this is a good transition then. So some tips for people out there who are building this life and style kind of business, and they’re trying to figure out how to monetize it, which we’ll get to that in just a minute, but for, for everyone who, okay, how do I increase my followership? How do I increase engagement? Do you have any best practices on the type of post or the type of reel, the type of video or the type of copy that you’re using to increase followers and engagement?
NS (10:14):
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, a couple things that I do very frequently I ask a lot of questions on static posts so that I am getting that engagement, you know, people are answering or if I’m doing a giveaway, I say, you know, list your favorite three things about the beach or whatever the subject matter may be. I think that always helps. One thing I am I do will never hand off to someone else as I respond to each and every DM that I get, it’s very time consuming. I will admit to that, but I do it throughout the day so that it’s not stockpiled for me. You know, when I’m in bed at night and the relationships and the rapport and the community that I’ve built with those people, because one, they know they’re talking to me and two, they know I’m going to respond as they, and it exemplifies what is missing in social media right now.
NS (11:00):
And I think, I hope that it, you know, really shows them that I’m not just walking the wall, but I’m actually, you know, if they ask me, how does that blouse run, I’m gonna text them back and say, you know, it’s true to size or, you know, this is how it fits or whatever it may be, but people remember those things. And like I said before, I think it’s all about building trust. And if you don’t continue to build that trust, they’re gonna go somewhere else. So I definitely think that’s helpful in kind of building that rapport with your followers. I think being open and upfront and honest is also, you know, I think people come to me for positive and, you know, happiness quotes and all those things and color. But I also am honest when I’m having a bad day or, you know, if I’m somethings go going wrong because they wanna know that you’re just a regular person. And so it’s all pretty to have a, you know, a, a very aesthetically pleasing fee, but that’s not real, I think, long gone those days. And as long as you’re staying true to who you are, brands will know that. And it’ll show, it’ll definitely start to show. And so your numbers will follow and you know, just, that’s all I can just, you know, that’s all I have to say about that.
AJV (12:03):
I think that’s good though. It’s like authentic engagement of not outsourcing it, not using bots. It’s like, Nope, this is real life human relationships that I’m working at building. And in order to build a business, you need to do that, right. Yes. Frankly. And
NS (12:16):
Quality over quantity. I think gone are the days where people are just seeing an engagement rate or a conversion rate, or how many followers you have brands really don’t care about that anymore. Yeah. More and more I’m seeing that, which is very great for somebody in my kind of niche, because they’re like, wait a minute. That doesn’t mean she’s not engaged. That doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have, you know, loyal followers. That just means that she’s really paying attention to what she’s doing. And you’re not gonna see me taking on brand partnerships and deals with products that I don’t wholeheartedly back.
AJV (12:46):
Yeah. I think that’s awesome. So, okay. So that’s a great transition to the next thing is monetizing, right? How do we do all this? Cuz I think so many people are fallen into one of two buckets. They have an amazing business and not enough people know about them or they have a huge audience, but they’re not monetizing it. Right. And it’s like marrying those two things is a really big deal.
NS (13:25):
Yeah, so obviously the biggest would probably be through like, to know it because it’s easy, it’s accessible, you know, many people I think through the pandemic had to become even more familiar with shopping online, whether they wanted to, or not, especially in those eight, those older age demographics specifically. I mean, my mom would come over and she’d be like, how do I do this?
AJV (14:14):
Right. Instagram
NS (14:15):
Ram changes, Facebook changes, LTK changes all of these change, things change. And some of these people are gonna be out there without a bone when things change. And they’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t own any of this content because I’ve shared it to only these platforms. So I always try to drive people back to my blog is kind of the hub yeah. Of everything, whether that be recipes or my travel or packing tips, or obviously the life and style component or my home design, anything like that. I always try to bring back to my blog and that way it, how it stays there forever.
AJV (14:46):
Yeah.
NS (14:47):
And I think that’s extremely important is having that platform that you own the rights to another thing is that’s been tremendous in, you know, growing my monetization is email newsletters. Again, that’s information that you solely own on your, by yourself. No one has privileged data to that. I also work directly with brands. You know, a lot of times you have to go through these middle media people. And a lot of times I’ll reach out to brands directly, whether that, you know, be searching for their PR or media email on their website, or if that’s actually sending them a DM on Instagram. And a lot of times that’s how I’ve gotten some of my longer term partnerships like Soma intimates. I work with them on a monthly basis and have done so for a couple years now. And it was me taking a chance and saying, I’m interested in working with you. I think I would be a good fit. And so I think it’s not being afraid to hear. No, I love,
AJV (15:39):
Hear, love, hearing that.
NS (15:41):
I mean, you’re gonna hear no, I hear it all the time still. So don’t be, you know, don’t get upset if you hear a no, because that just means that’s not the right fit. And I’ve, you know, been able to work with some household names over the years and sometimes it simply is, you know, sending them a DM. Yeah. Cause I think that shows ins and a lot of people don’t,
AJV (16:00):
I think, I think a huge part of, and I speak for at least the brand builders group community that we work with. It’s like, I think people forget the art of outreach. It’s like don’t expect the you’re just going to have all these followers and people just come and find you, maybe that happens sometimes, but you actually need to do some good old fashioned sales outreach. Right. Email someone actually pick up the phone and call them, DM them, do the research pitch yourself. Right. Don’t forget that there is a, still a sale to be made here. So you’re still finding, so that’s a great question. I would know. How do you know when a brand is right for you and when you are right for a brand?
NS (16:38):
Yeah. Well, depending on the brand I’m working with, so let’s just say, okay, right now I have a couple collaborations going on with anthropology, which every year I make a list of five to 10 brands that I wanna work with this bucket list brand, you know, that’s been included, Lily Pulitzer, that’s included Disney, that’s included you know, different cruise lines. I mean literally the full spectrum, Nordstrom, Sephora, whatever it may be. And honestly I reached out to anthropology and said, listen, I have a ton of your items. Not only in my wardrobe, but in my home, my audience knows I’m all about color. I think, to be an absolute win. And I just kept kind of building that rapport. I would tag them in outfits that I wore. So they know it’s very organic. Yeah. And then they’re like, okay, wait a minute. Natasha actually is not only a customer, but she supports us. See, she talks about promotions we have or new arrivals or whatever that may be. So I think it’s just, you know, obviously continu putting that kind of bug in their ears so that you do come top of mind when they think about the add dollars that they have to
AJV (17:40):
Spend. Yeah. And it’s really just, it’s reaching out to people that you already love. Exactly. It’s who you’re already using, but I love what you said. It’s like, you make a target list of like, these are my bucket list, clients like this is, these are the brands I already love. I’m already using might as well have a partnership with them and we mutually benefit.
NS (17:58):
Exactly.
AJV (17:58):
Yeah. I love that. And
NS (18:00):
They’re looking, I mean, they’re actively looking, they have a group of people, these huge brands have people looking to find, you make it easy to find, find
AJV (18:07):
That’s right. That which is tagging them. Right.
NS (18:10):
Exactly. Don’t be ashamed. I mean, everyone starts with zero followers.
AJV (18:15):
Yeah. That’s so good. Well, and there’s that, there’s this rise of these micro influencers. Yep. Right. These people that kind of have like that 10 to 30, 10 to $40,000 followers. Yes. There’s a huge rise in the importance of it’s like, you don’t have to have huge followers to make huge incomes by just, not at all, having an engaged Royal following. Cause that millions doesn’t mean anything if they don’t have engagement. And
NS (18:40):
Exactly. And I think more and more, you know, brands are seeing the bots. You know, I was in Dallas a couple weeks ago with the brand and they were showing me how they have access to all of these influencers, statistics through a, you know, a platform that they subscribe to. And it was eyeopening to kind of hear how things are ranked and you know, the response time with these influencers and how many of their followers are real and brands are starting to see this and get really smart. So it makes me very happy to know that staying true and myself and being honest, you know, is definitely gonna pay off in the long run
AJV (19:13):
Preach. Always, always.
NS (19:15):
Exactly.
AJV (19:16):
So, I mean, and you said something too, that we talk about all the time, which is, you know, if you’re only building on social media, you’re building on rented real estate, the only real, the only virtual real estate you own is your blog, your website, your email list, right. Those are things that you own. And some tips to people who are going, I mean, I cannot tell you how many people I know who are like, what do you mean an email list? Like that’s so that’s so old school. I’m like no, no, it’s not. It’s the only thing that you really own. Right. Otherwise you’re just building Zuckerberg’s platform. Right. You’re,
NS (19:47):
You’re helping them more than we have already done. I think they’re good.
AJV (19:51):
Right. I think they think they have hit their, their peak. I think we’re good there. So some tips on how do you convert followers into email addresses?
NS (20:00):
You know, a lot of times I’ll simply ask, you know, how kinda you said, ask for the sale, simply say, Hey, I would love for you to sign up. A lot of times I have added content on I email newsletter that I don’t have anywhere else. So they feel like they’re getting something special. You know, I include all my special discount codes that I’ve worked in partnership with brands to have. I keep those live on my email newsletters. I talk about my target Thursday favorites there. And also I recap a lot of things going on in my life. So I kind of do a little bit more of a deep if so I think people wanna know if they know you on a personal level, but they wanna continue to know you and develop a better relationship of who you are. That’s when they always, you know, wanna do that. I’ll do giveaways to get them to sign up. You know, that’s easy and fun and everyone loves something free. So just little things here and there and I dabble it, but you know, I make it easy to subscribe on my website. I have a popup that comes when you go to hello, happiness blog.com. So you just have to make it overly easy for them to be a part of it because people will continue to ask,
AJV (21:03):
Well, you said three things that I’m gonna highlight that I think are really unique and really important to make sure everyone who is out there listening, you pay attention to this one is create unique content for your eing, right? It’s like if it’s just regurgitated information that they can get somewhere else, you know, it’s like, I think there is a huge trend right now of creating unique content for each platform versus taking one piece of content and displacing it and putting the same piece everywhere. It’s like, are you creating unique content for each platform? And then making it really unique, special content, you can get nowhere else, nowhere else for your email list. I love that. I think that’s so smart. Second thing is giveaways. So are you providing giveaways to make it enticing for someone to want to give you your email? So any quick tips on like, what are the best giveaways that you’ve ever done that made like a huge difference?
NS (21:59):
Oh goodness. Okay. So as you mentioned earlier, we have rental properties down in 38. And so a lot of what I try to do is I like to haul out a lot of small businesses. That’s something that I’ve done for years. It’s super important to me, it’s the backbone of our country. And so I partnered with a lot of Rosemary merchants and catering companies and wine distributors. And I gave away a stay at our Roia boat property for somebody to come and experience 30 a. And so we had the buy-in of all of those different communities and brands and shops. And so they were just thrilled, not only because of the, you know, potential income that they were getting from that new followers, new customers, new people on their websites. But then it was also giving back to my community and saying, thank you for being here and doing this. So that was probably one of the most successful and way. A lot of the items that I design I’ve, you know, collaborated with social threads on Nerine totes, I’ve created custom collections of swimwear for the family, with the Oaks. I’ve done accessory, concierge, jewelry collections. So a lot of times I’ll buy those for myself and then kind of put them aside for weekly or monthly engagement giveaways, just to say, give back and say, thanks
AJV (23:12):
Love those ideas. And it’s like the next time you do a giveaway for a free vacation on 38, me who
NS (23:19):
Doesn’t want that. So, and it really helps those small businesses and, you know, it’s, if there’s anything I can do, that’s one thing I like,
AJV (23:27):
I, I love that. And it’s due, it’s like, it’s finding ways to that compliments what you’re already doing. So everything is still so synergistic and so connected. I love that. And so, so I do have a question tactical, a tactical question. So you’re these giveaways, is it only for new email subscribers?
NS (23:45):
Sometimes it depends on what the specific brands I’m working with asks for not necessarily, but most of the time I try to do it to everybody. Who’s a part of my email,
AJV (23:56):
Their list, but that’s just great incentive of why you wanna be on there and stay on
NS (24:00):
There. Great.
AJV (24:02):
Yep. I love that such good. And then the third thing that you said that I think is just really important, I’m just gonna hit it home one more time. Is that make sure you’re actually building your email list. Right? All of these things don’t matter if the algorithm can change and leadership changes. I mean, that’s such a big deal. It’s such a big, so
NS (24:22):
Make sure, make it easy for them. Have it on a dropdown on your blog, having a dropdown on your, you know, Instagram bio on your Facebook group page. Literally every place they can find you, you need to have a way for them to subscribe.
AJV (24:34):
Love that. So good. All right. So last, just couple of questions. I know when we have like five more minutes together, but a last couple of quick questions and these are just personal, just for fun. What is your favorite thing to talk about? Like when you think about this, all the things that you can be talking about, is there one that just like pulls at your heart of like, man, I love it. When I get to do this,
NS (24:57):
I think, you know, every day I get on stories and I share optimistic quotes and positive things. And I think right now, even more than ever, there’s so much negativity. And if I can bring a smile to someone’s face with just some heartfelt words that I have found from Pinterest that morning, I think it really helps start people’s day out. So I do a morning coffee chat and people, you know, tune in by the thousands to see it. It’s not me doing a hashtag sponsored event. It’s not so fancy thing. It’s me, literally in my PJ is drinking a cup of coffee and that’s something where I feel like I really kind of build that rapport and that relationship. And it’s super important to me.
AJV (25:33):
Do you do it every day?
NS (25:35):
Every day?
AJV (25:36):
I mean, if
NS (25:36):
I don’t come on, people are like, Natasha, where are you? Do the girls get on the bus? OK. What’s going on? I mean, so it’s just, it’s not anything fancy. It’s just me.
AJV (25:46):
I love that, but it consistency,
NS (25:49):
Consistency. And that is key. Yes. You gotta train your audience about when you’ll be there. How many touch points, what are you posting each week? So I think it just always, you know, goes back to being consistent.
AJV (26:00):
Yeah. But it’s like consistency and training. I think that’s a really big deal, but you love doing the more inspirational C that you do it every morning,
NS (26:09):
Every morning and then showing color. I think that’s probably another thing that really separates me from the majority. If you were just scrolling through your Instagram feed of, you know, life and style bloggers, everything is so neutral and that is not my life
AJV (26:31):
I love that. I love that. So. Okay. Two other questions then I promise I’ll let you go. I love this what’s what’s one trend that you would say I see everyone else doing this, but I’m not gonna do it.
NS (26:45):
Oh gosh. Well, one kinda touches on what I just said about everything. Neutral, every home looking the same, I’m just over it. You know, I would have wallpaper in every single room in my house. If I could, my husband would want to kill me, but he knows he’s pretty much taken a backseat to all things, design and decor. So I do take risks when it comes to that stuff. And I love it. Another thing I am not a biker short person.
AJV (27:22):
But I will tell you, it’s a, like, I think the color like makes you pop. Like if you scrolling your feet, anytime you pop up, it’s like, it’s always like just bright and colorful and just it, you know, it’s like, hello, happiness is such a great title for you. It’s like, because everything you are is like so joyful and happy. But like a part of why I wanted to ask is because I think so much of what you’re saying, just rest with who you are and it really does come through. So if you were trying to just play with the trends that are popular, it would be, you know, inauthentic to just who you are. Yeah.
NS (27:52):
You gotta stay true to who you are and
AJV (27:54):
Including no bike shorts. So including
NS (27:57):
No bike shorts. So if you shorts, you can come at me because I guarantee you, this is gonna,
AJV (28:04):
I love that. I love that. Okay. This is my last question. And this is more of a tip for the listeners for anyone who’s listening, who’s going all right. I really, I wanna make that jump from just building my audience to actually monetizing my audience. What’s one thing that you would tell someone to do. Who’s just kind of like trying to figure out how do I Mo this thing that I’ve accidentally built. What’s the first thing that they should do.
NS (28:29):
First of all, I would find the top three things that you wanna post about so that you can have a niche. I think people get so disoriented with, oh my gosh. And having to put, you know, balls in each bucket, find three specific subject matter areas and focus on those. That would be my number one tip. My second tip would be really engaging with your followers.
AJV (28:53):
So good. It’s simple that it’s not right.
NS (28:56):
I know it’s not easy. And it’s something that I’m constantly having to work at. So it’s an ever evolving marketplace and that, but that also makes it fun. Yeah. Makes it not feel like work. And I love what I do. And so it doesn’t
AJV (29:09):
And boring.
NS (29:10):
No, it’s not. It’s never boring.
AJV (29:14):
Oh, this has been so good. Y’all if you, if you don’t know Natasha please go follow her. I would say I’m gonna drive you to hello, happiness blog.com. Sign up for email list, get some get some free tips. There
NS (29:28):
You go. Ask for the cell.
AJV (29:31):
I’ll help you with that. But from there you can check her out on Instagram, Pinterest, all the places, but hello, happiness, blog.com. We’ll put all of her social handles in the show notes. We’ll put the, the blog link in there too. You’re doing amazing stuff. Thank you so much for coming on. It’s dually exciting for me to get to learn from you and also do reconnect with an old friend. So thank you so much.
NS (29:55):
Likewise. Thank you guys so much for having me a means a lot.
AJV (29:58):
All right, everyone. We’ll catch you next time. I’m on the influential personal brand.
Ep 280: The Power of One More with Ed Mylett
RV (00:00):
To one of the great honors of my life is getting to play a role behind the scenes for some of the most influential personal brands in the world. I’ve actually found it much more enriching and fulfilling to be behind the scenes and be a part of the team. That’s coordinating that for other people than I have, even for us building my personal brand in our company. And today is truly one of those moments for me. A few months ago, one of my O other mentors, John Gordon introduced me to a gentleman named ed Mylet, who you’ve probably heard of. And ed and I started talking and I found out he had a book launch and book launches is something that we know something about. And so ed and I became friends and it has been an absolute honor and privilege to work alongside of ed here for a few months now and a pretty close working relationship, helping him launch this book.
RV (00:56):
That’s coming out called the power of one more. And we’re gonna talk about the book, but if you don’t know, ed just really quick I’ve known ed, I’ve been following him for years. He’s one of my favorite people to follow online. He’s got over 3 million online followers at, at the time of this recording. He is in the Forbes fiftys wealthy under 50 years old. He’s the host of a podcast called the ed Mylet show, which has had, I mean, everybody Terrell Owens, Mel Robbins, Dabo Sweeney, John Maxwell, Jay Sheti. It goes on and on and on. Ed is one of the best speakers that I’ve ever seen. And I’ve personally learned so much from him. And he’s also the real deal. I mean, he has a, a net worth that is in the nine figures, which is not his focus by any means, but a Testament to the fact that he’s the real deal. It’s not, it’s not fake. And he loves Jesus. He’s humble. And man, what an honor to introduce you to my new friend, ed mullet,
EM (01:58):
Hey brother, Rory, great to be with you. And you’re understanding your involvement and role in my life now. You’re the centerpiece of this book launch. You’ve been leading it from the front the entire time and I’ve been in business for 30 years. I’ve never worked with anybody like you before you are remarkable. He is just so you all know his brilliance is only exceeded by his generosity. And he’s a remarkable man. I actually can’t even believe as I’m saying this, I’m getting a little bit emotional. I did not think I would, but I’m very grateful for you brother, grateful for your friendship and mentorship. Cause I’ve learned so much from you for the last 60 days. And I know it’s just the beginning of a lifelong friendship and, and also business relationship too, so great to be with you today.
RV (02:41):
Well, thank you, man. That means just so much coming from you and, and I want, I want people to hear your real story. Like your life story is tremendously inspiring. Thank you. Also, you know, I hope you don’t mind me sharing this, but like ed is working his butt off. I mean we are running him, we are running him ragged. He is following our, our, you know, bestseller launch plan, which we take our clients through. Can I share how many units we’ve pre-sold ed? Is that okay? Or,
EM (03:11):
Yeah, that’s fine. Sure.
RV (03:12):
40,000 units of this book have already been pre-sold and we have, at the time of this recording, we got about six weeks to go. We’re doing a huge event in Raleigh, but so ed, take us back to like, I wanna hear the story of how you started building your personal brand. You’ve got this great story as a kid. Yeah. You crushed it in business. You still crushed it in business. And, and just, but like, take us back to where do you, where do you demarcate the Genesis of you building your personal brand?
EM (03:43):
Yeah, I really didn’t know what I was doing. I, I had been an entrepreneur and a speaker for a number of years and I sort of resisted the, I wanted to stay private. I really, you know me well now, like I buy homes where I’m very private. It’s not that I don’t love people. I actually adore people, but I’m introverted. And so, and just exposing the, my life, I, most of my friends are famous, unfortunately. Right. And so I knew what came with that and I didn’t want all of it. And so I did it very reluctantly, but the encouragement of a lot of the people that I coach, some people like Tony Robbins also like, Hey man, you need to, you need to go out there and share what you know. And and so I made the decision. It was a really funny story.
EM (04:19):
I’ll tell you this, cuz you’ll laugh. Tony Robbins told me, Hey man, you need to, you need to get on social media and I’m I’m idiot and I’m not very good at posting. And he challenged me in a way that sort of made me want to do it. So we’re sitting on my balcony. My son was in the other room and he goes, I said, max, you’re now the head of my social media team.
RV (05:01):
Nice.
EM (05:01):
And I called Tony, I’m going, Hey, this stuff doesn’t work. And my son, like I thought you knew who you were doing four views. And only one of them even liked it. I, this is not for me. And this is what I hear Tony say, I Rory, I swear to you on our friendship. This is what I hear him say. He goes, dude, you gotta post at the right time of the day. You gotta post at breakfast time. So if you watch my social, I post every morning to this day at 7:30 AM. Yeah. Pacific time. Every day, every post on my main feed that’s cuz back in the day, Tony Robbins told me to post at breakfast time. This is what I think he says to me next worry. And by the way, you gotta post at breakfast time and you need to have hash Browns in the video.
EM (05:38):
This is what I hear him say hash brown. I’m like, and I don’t wanna sound stupid. I’m like really breakfast and hash Browns. All right. Okay dude, I’ll make another one. So I call max and go, Hey, I thought you knew about this stuff. Tony says it’s gotta be breakfast videos around breakfast table and there’s gonna be hash Browns in the video. Max is like, daddy, I don’t, why would there need to be a breakfast? I go, I don’t know. But that’s how this stuff works. So the next video you can go to my social media. It’s a video of me with a plate of eggs and hash Browns. And I make a video. I swear to you, you don’t know this story. And then, then that video gets like three views and no likes. And I tell Tony, I go, Hey man, I call him up. I go, this is crap. The hash brown thing tanked. He goes,
Speaker 3 (06:20):
He goes, what did you just say?
EM (06:22):
I go, I did the breakfast post with the hash Browns.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
He goes dummy.
EM (06:30):
Hash Browns.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I said, well I
EM (06:32):
Heard hash and breakfast. He goes, no, it’s the time of the day with hash tags. I’m like what? The heck’s a hashtag. He goes, I don’t know. It’s like a pound sign with a word. And it helps him find your video. I go pound
Speaker 3 (06:43):
What? He goes. I, he goes, dude, just
EM (06:45):
Do the hashtag thing years and serious up. That was my start on social media. And I wake up like a year later cuz the content’s good. Right? I wake up a year later, I got a million followers on Instagram. You know, I’m getting, I’m growing like crazy. And I’ve ended up growing to these millions of people, man. And as you know, I’ve never run an ad. It’s completely, it’s completely authentic growth. Like it’s spiral can.
RV (07:06):
I’ve never, I need a, I need to say this right now because this is important. I’ve actually, I haven’t, I don’t think I’ve told this to you directly, but I’ve said this to several people since you know, working so closely with you, which is that one of the thing there’s so many things about you that amaze me. But one of the things that amazes me most is like everybody else out there in the space doing this, this is their full-time job. Right? They got teams, they’re spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s, it’s all they’re doing. And, and you, you don’t like you have a pretty thin team. This is like a side project, which it’s like almost a distraction for you, which makes me admire you. And it also really me off, like it really, really jealous, but like it, it
EM (07:53):
Is that’s where, that’s why you’ve come into my life. I mean, we’ve become one of the, you know I think influencer magazine named me the fastest growing businessman in the history of social media. And as you know, I have very few people on my team. It’s here’s the good news. It’s been content driven. And I don’t say that to brag. I just say that like my content’s good and in a diverse amount of content and that’s, what’s grown and now I’ve met a pro in fact, I’ve met the best in you. And so now between the book, the power of one more, that’s coming out, the event we’re doing with it that, you know, that’s pretty significant. And then what we’ll do with my social going forward, I actually feel like I’ve now met the best people in the world. It’s gonna get real scary. What’s gonna happen when you take the best content. Now married with the best team of people who know how to build a brand, which is you. And so I’m fired up, man. I cannot wait for this thing to explode even to another level.
RV (08:40):
Yeah, for sure. Well, I, I also, you know, another part of that little story is how coachable, I mean, for you to be somebody who’s incredibly successful. I mean, that’s a vast understatement to, to say Tony Robbins says post a video with hash Browns. And without even thinking about it, you just, you just do it. What year was that?
EM (09:02):
That was probably seven years ago.
RV (09:04):
That’s when I started. OK.
EM (09:06):
But by the way, you know me well enough now I’m still that way I’m coachable to you and other people look, I’ve built lots of wealth and lots of different businesses by knowing I’m not the smartest guy in the room. I know what I’m good at. In fact, I talk about this on the book, taking advantage of your giftedness and allowing the gifts of other people to flourish around you. I think what does strike people when they start to interact with me? I’m a confident dude. I’m an intense dude. Mm-Hmm
EM (09:42):
Well, where I need to be, believe me, I’m dominant. And I assert myself, but I’m I’m. I just, I laugh at people who think they know everything. Look it, you are the, you’re the premier guy. What you do, I’m blessed to have you in my life. Why would I not let you do what you’re great at? And I’ll do what I’m great at. I’ve built and sold many, many different businesses on the premise that if you surround yourself with great people, take advantage of their giftedness, use your giftedness. You’re unstoppable. And that’s really the lot, which as you know, that’s, there’s a lot of that in the book and you’ve watched me do it with you. I’m like, Hey, I don’t know what should we do? And I listen. Now, if someone proves themselves consistently not to be equipped to do the job, that’s a different story altogether with me, I’ll make a switch. But until that time comes in your case, every single thing you basically told me to do is worked. And you’ve exceeded what you told me you were going to do when we first met one another. So why wouldn’t I give you more space to lead? I think that’s how you build something. Great.
RV (10:37):
Yeah. It’s, it’s an interesting dichotomy like ed, cuz it’s throwing me for a loop cuz you’re, you’re both physically intimidating. Like you are, you know a very behemoth of a man, your stature, but your reputation is huge. Your track record is huge you’re and you are very intense, but then you are very open and re and receptive to this. I mean it it’s, it’s really interesting. It, I, it actually inspired me to make a post recently about the difference between like confidence and pride. And I was just basically saying how you know, confidence is how you do something mm-hmm
EM (11:40):
I’m also doing what you’ve asked me to do on the book, different things. So my favorite people, Roy, I talk about this in the book and how to establish self confidence. The whole chapter on it’s pretty detailed. It’s not, this book is heavy. I mean, it’s a very heavy everyone who’s read it. That’s friends of mine’s like, whoa, this is there’s no breathing room. It’s cont I mean it’s specific stuff, but my favorite people have this nuance and it’s a very, very difficult line to nuance. In fact, the ultimate person who’s ever exemplified this is Jesus, but there’s this line of tremendous confidence combined with humility. So the people that I love most have a lot of self-confidence, but their humility, it causes ’em to be curious, kind, open grow. We all know people with tons of self-confidence have no humility. They, they, their, their egos outta control.
EM (12:25):
They eventually burn out. They eventually make a mistake. They eventually self-destruct. We also have friends with tons of humility with no self-confidence and you have to carry them through, like, you can do it, you can do it. So it’s the, it’s the, it’s the nuance of the two. Jesus knew who he was, but he was humble enough to present himself as a man. He was humble enough to submit. He was humble enough to feed the masses. He was humble enough to give his life for us. Talk about the ultimate level of sacrifice and humility yet at the same time simultaneously knowing who he really was. And so the, the best people that I know that I, I like to get close to. They tow that line. Sometimes you arrow one side or the other, but I’d love to. I hope that I continue to have a very level of, I know how to build self-confidence.
EM (13:07):
I detail that in the book, I know how to help you become self-confidence I’ve helped the top people in the world do that. I know how to do that. The humility part is a character of trait. You have to want to grow. You have to know that you, that for me, man, like it’s weird to write a book called the ultimate guide to happiness and success. And I give all these keys yet. At the same time, I have a whole chapter on faith. I also know that there’s many times in my life brother, where the truth is, I don’t know what happened. My reflections are vague. And the truth is all I conclude is that during those difficult times, the Lord just sort of picked me up and carried me for a while and then set me back down in a better place. And then I went to work and then he picked me back up and carried me for a while. And it’s why it makes me so emotional because it’s odd to write a book about here’s how you become happier or more successful, knowing that so much of it wasn’t me. And so much of it was, was God in my life was favor, was blessing. And so it’s, I’d be remiss if I said I have all these answers, cuz I, I actually know I don’t the older I get, the more I realize what I don’t know mm-hmm
RV (14:16):
To grow there. Well, your, your, your faith is another example of this humility, right? Like you’ve got the money, you’ve got the influence. You have the followers, you you’ve got the most famous people in your cell phone. Mm-Hmm
RV (15:04):
And I see you doing that and it’s inspiring to me. It’s also impactful kingdom work. I mean, you’re a secular author. This is a business. This is a business book. But man, if ed, my let is, you know, if Jesus is good enough, like for an ed, my let or, you know, to hear somebody like you go, no, this is, this is what it’s really about. For me, it’s inspiring. And it also, it makes, it makes me more excited to be a part of what you’re doing, cuz you’re reaching a lot of people who would not hear that message.
EM (15:34):
I was just talking about this with a very, very, very, actually two of them, maybe the two most famous pastors in the world. I won’t say their names, but two of very famous guys. And I was talking about that. I said, listen, when they come listen to you, man, they know what they’re getting your pastor. What’s cool with me is they come for me for the jet or the island or the money or the other stuff. And they’re gonna get all that. I want them to have all that stuff, but then they’re gonna hear this other thing that they didn’t expect to hear. And I’m hoping that maybe that I can reach people to some extent that God’s using me to potentially reach people that maybe not everybody else can get to the other. You know? So that’s a, that’s a, you know, really significant thing in calling for me.
EM (16:10):
And I just, you know, I hope that I’m, I hope that I’m bold enough. I hope that I’m becoming more and more bold with it. It’s never that I’ve not been willing to be bold. It’s that I’ve sort of learned to express it more as I’ve gotten a little bit older and I just love the Lord man. Like you can’t, you have to conclude when you get to a certain point in your life like, Hey man, I’m not, this is not me. There’s no way this is me yet. I am. I here’s what I really think. I, I believe, you know, broader that I represent a little bit. I think there’s this notion in the world of faith world that you can’t believe in science or facts or details or strategies and still be a person of faith. And then I think secular people think that if you, if you believe in faith that you can’t believe in these other things, I believe in the brain, I believe in brain science.
EM (16:50):
I believe in neuroplasticity, I believe in the re particular activating system in the prefrontal cortex of your brain, brain and visualizations and neuroplasticity. And I believe in epigenetics, I believe in all these different things. I just happen to believe there’s a holy God in heaven that created all of it. I just happen to believe that I know where it comes from. And so I’m both a person of faith and a person of science. And by the way, oftentimes my faith confirms the science and my science confirms the faith. And so amen. Maybe that’s too deep, but I write about it in the book.
RV (17:20):
Yeah. So let let’s let’s talk about the book for a second. Y’all your story is moving ed. Like, can you take, just take us back to your dad? Yeah. Like the relationship you have with your father is like your earthly father I’m talking about is a important part of your life. It’s an important part of this book. And can you just talk about like where you started in your relationship with your dad and how that evolved and how did that influence the direction of the book?
EM (17:49):
Everything. And like most people were influenced by who raised us. Right? So I wrote the book after my dad died last year and it’s called the power of one more because my dad embodied this. My dad was an alcoholic. The first 15 years of my life was not living a great life. I believe so deeply that humans can change because I watched my hero do it. I watched my own father live, not as a great father or husband for the first 15 years of my life. And then I made, he made one decision and gave one more, try to get sober. Then my dad stayed sober the second half of his life and lived as magnificent of a life on earth as anybody I’ve ever watched in my entire 50 years on the planet. So I know humans can change because my dad made that one decision to get sober and everything that I am I’ve learned from my dad.
EM (18:33):
I really do believe the premise of the book is this. That you’re a lot closer to the dream life that you want than you think you are. And the fact that you think you’re so far away causes you to pace yourself like it and keeps it in the distance. But what if it’s true that you’re one decision, one relationship, the ultimate relationship is with your heavenly father. One thought one emotion, one meeting, one guy meet Rory. Rory meets me to completely changing your life. And then the question becomes if I’m right about that, and I know I’m right about that, then what are the two books I always carry with me are my book, the power of one more and think and grow rich think and grow rich is my second favorite book. Other than my scriptures. I love it. Having said that you don’t just think and get rich.
EM (19:14):
You have to do things. And so I wanted to write a book that told you what are the thoughts? And then what is the, the collective action that you do in congruency that create, change the thought. And then the action doing them together is what creates the change. I’m just tired of reading books, Rory, that it’s the same it’s think and grow rich, written a little bit differently. I wanted a book that’s modern and profound and links, faith, but also links the brain strategies you need in the techniques and the habits and the goal setting. How do you create standards? What’s equanimity, right? What’s the particular activating. What’s the matrix of your life? How do you build self confidence? What’s your identity, all these different things in the book. And I’ve done that because my dad, I learned these things from, and every day I believe in one more try. I believe in redemption. I believe that, you know, you’re saved. Not because you’re perfect, but because of God’s grace in your life and that no matter what age you are, what mistakes you’ve made or what baggage you’re carrying around, bankruptcy, divorce, a sin, you’ve had something you’re ashamed of. You can drop those bags at any moment in one decision in one moment and completely change your life. I watched my dad do it. The, if that’s true, then how do you, how do you, and that’s why I wrote the book is the, how do you,
RV (20:25):
Yeah, it, it, it is, it is fire. You know, I, I got obviously a little insider preview to a lot of this in these interviews, but you’re like the, the concept of identity mm-hmm
EM (21:37):
Well, the identity, part’s huge. It’s a, it’s the thermostat of your life. Your identity is sitting on the wall of your life and, and it it’s, it regulates everything. So it’s what you believe you’re worth. You’re going to get. This is a fact. So if you’re a 75 degree of wealth or happiness or faith and your results begin to exceed at 80 95, a hundred, you will find a way to subconsciously sabotage it and turn the air conditioner back down to get what you believe you’re worth. It’s a fact. I watch people, people think it’s coincident. Oh, I lost my money cuz of the market or my car broke down. I had to loan someone. Nope, not you turn the air conditioner on and you got it back to what you believe you deserve. So this identity thing is huge to heat up to 85, 90, a hundred, 120 degrees.
EM (22:15):
So that your results, your faith, your happiness, your abundance continues to grow. You will never exceed your identity ever, no matter what skill, what business, what real you gotta grow your identity. The question is, how do you do it? And in the book I go through detailed what I call the trilogy of identity. The first part of identity, believe it or not is faith. If I come from a all-knowing all loving God who made me in my image and likeness, aren’t I supposed to do something great with my life. There’s so many believers. They, they got God on Sunday. They got God on, you know, Bible study on Wednesdays. But when they walk into a boardroom or a sales call or a meeting, they’re alone, they forget all about it. Wow. And then their identity reduces. But if I’ve got Jesus with me right on my shoulder, he’s got my back.
EM (22:56):
Every single call, every single podcast, every single meeting, man, my identity, can’t be 75 with Jesus impossible. Second thing of your identity intention. You have to start to give yourself more credit for your intent. Too. Many of you are basing your identity on your ability or what you’ve achieved or who you are. And you’ll always be chasing it. In other words, it’ll never catch up. But what if you started to say, I intend to serve. I intend to do good. I intend to make a difference with this customer of mine or this client of mine or with my social media or with my brand. My intent is to serve right before we started. I swear to you. I say a quick prayer connect with my faith. Lord help me serve because I’m connecting to my intention, man. My identity goes through the roof cuz I know two things.
EM (23:34):
I know Jesus has my back. And number two, I know I intend to do well. I intend to serve third part of it is association. Who are you around? If you’re a 75 degree or, and you’re around somewhere 120 degrees of financial identity or faith, they will heat you up eventually through proximity to their thermostat setting. So if you combine faith intention and, and association, you can shift this identity and then your thermostat setting on your entire life. By the way you have a happiness thermostat too, you could start to achieve all the external stuff. You could even be a church going person or have all kinds of, but you’re just not any happier than you used to be. It’s because you’ve got a thermostat setting of happiness that was installed in you when you were a child at 75 degrees and you just reinforced it all your life with all these references. So I teach you how to change that in the book. So there’s all types of thermostat settings we have.
RV (24:24):
Yeah. I mean that is so huge. And, and what you hit on and I just want to Edify for everybody is this book strikes the balance of this thought and action. It’s the intersection of this high level sort of cerebral and science and visualization. And then also the practicality, the, the pragmatic nature it’s it’s palatable, right. Is to go, what do I do if I want to raise my identity, I need to remind myself of my faith and my creator. I need to remind myself and set the right intention. And I need to associate with the right people that takes such an obscure concept, like identity and makes it real. And that’s why y’all you, you need to go buy this book like, and, and buy the book now. I mean, you don’t get a chance to learn from somebody like ed and just even to pull out, like for someone like him to take a whole lifetime worth of lessons and, and dump it out. And I mean, the thing that blows me away is it’s like it’s 20 bucks or 25, 20 $8. It’s insane. Yeah.
EM (25:34):
It is brother and I wrote the book when my dad passed because you know, it dawned on me in that moment that I’m the next one, you know, I’m gonna pass someday. And I think, you know, Napoleon hill says in think and grow rich begin with the end in mind, you know what? That’s for a goal that’s true in life. Begin with the end in mind and work your way backwards. And so for me, I thought, you know what? I want my great grandkids to know what I thought about life. What I learned about success and happiness. And I wanna write about it until I’m dad and gone. And the truth is, if you wanna know the power of one more, let me take it from you. You wanna know the power of see the whole premises. If you’re gonna be in the gym, doing 10 reps, do 11, you’re gonna be 30 minutes on the treadmill.
EM (26:17):
Do one more. You’re gonna tell your sweet daughter. You love her. Tell her one more time a day, you start stacking up the one mores in your life, right? All of a sudden you’re a different human being. Self-Confidence is the process of keeping the promises you make to yourself. It’s a relationship with you. And when you have a reputation with yourself that you keep the promises you make to yourself, you are a self confident person, long term, but if you wanna be a world class achiever, build a relationship, a reputation with yourself where you do one more than you promise yourself. And all of a sudden you’re a monster of achievement, but you know what that power, my favorite thing to do, man, was play golf with my dad. And neither one of us are good golfers, but it was five hours with my hero and my best friend right next to me in the golf cart.
EM (27:01):
And we would talk deep about life and politics, which we disagreed on and all kinds of different stuff. Rory, do you know what I would give right now for one more round of golf with my dad? I can’t even tell you brother, one more conversation. I could hug my dad one more time and I can’t, but it shows you the power of how precious one more is. So if you do have someone you love here on earth, what if you started to look at her? Like what? This was my one last conversation with her. What if, when your wife walks in the room, what if, what, what was the last dance? What if was the last dinner? What if only had one more? What if you started to look at that call that sales call? What if this is my last shot? I only have one more.
EM (27:48):
When you begin to take the one more away, you start to understand the power of it. And so the power of it when it’s absence is magnified, the good news is we are still here. If you’ve had someone pass away and you can’t have that conversation, honor them with your life. But if they are here, make it more precious. It does matter. And I don’t know how many more you get to talk to your parents, but I know it’s not infinity. And so take advantage of the times that you have with the people that you love. Take advantage of the opportunities. Look for the relationships. Look for the decisions. Look for the thoughts. Look for the meanings. I just had to play golf, talking about money. I played golf two weeks ago. I’m talking about win one relationship in one decision away. I think I told you this, but again, here, the guy goes, Hey you’re gonna play golf with this guy.
EM (28:32):
Net worth are real similar. He did it in a really interesting way. So we first tee, I go, Hey man, I wanna know how you how’d. You build your fortune. He goes about 30 years ago, a guy asked me a $50,000 loan. He actually asked me and my other friend, I gave him the 50 grand. So did my friend, but my friend a week later asked for it back and he got the money back. I didn’t ask for the money back. He goes a 50 grand turn into about 700 million. Whoa. I went say that again. Cause he had about 700 million. I go, who’s the, who’s the guy you loan the money to. He goes some. Do we back in the day named Jeff Bezos
EM (29:14):
But in some way, the small ones like that end up stacking up and you really are. Think about if you’re married, that one relationship, how much has changed your life? That one decision to ask her or him out that one decision to get married, that child, you have that one relationship, how much it changed your life. So this ISN’ up for debate. The question then is how do I foster these new relationships? How do I make these new decisions? How do I uncover these new emotions? What are the new thoughts I have to have? What’s the one more thing I gotta do. And if you read the book, you’ll know
RV (29:47):
Where do you want ’em to go? I, I have one last question for you before that though. Where, where do you want people to go? Ed let’s we practiced. We’ve practiced your call to action. Where do you want people to go by the book right now?
EM (29:59):
We, we want you to go to the power of one more.com. That’s where we want you to go, but you can get the book anywhere, but if you go to the power of one more.com, you’re gonna find some cool stuff there as well. And I gotta tell you that if, if I’ve ever believed more strongly in something, I don’t know what it is. I just feel very strongly. I’m convicted that it can make a difference in your life. Whether as a mother, a father, a business person, a leader, an athlete, just as a human being, I think you’ll find keys to becoming more successful and happier. That’s why I call it the ultimate guide to happiness and success. So go to the power of one more.com and get the book. Anywhere books are sold.
RV (30:37):
I love it. Guys, go get the book. I mean, seriously, this is it’s insane. $28 and $30 to have access to somebody like ed, my lead and what’s going on in his head is, is incredible. Ed. The last thing I wanna leave, I, I want to you to leave the audience with is you talk, you have this I don’t know if it’s like a game or, but there’s this thing that you do in your life, where you, you about meeting your potential mm-hmm
EM (31:12):
A hundred percent. I do for sure. It’s how I live every day. It’s my dominant thought. We all have a dominant thought. The dominant thought running through my mind is that, listen, I know that when I get to heaven someday, I, all I need is the Lord to go, Hey, well done, good and faithful servant. Get in here. That’s what I want. Right? But I have this hallucination that he made me as image and like this, and there’s a destiny version of me. And I have this feeling. At least I let myself have it that when I do die, you’re talking about beginning with the end in mind. This is what I meant. When I said this earlier, I believe I get to meet the destiny version of me. The man I was born to be the man. He made me to be the guy who had the contribution, the moments, the memories, the feelings, the emotions, the experiences, the difference he made in life. I get to meet that guy someday. And every decision I make as I go through my life, one more decision is to catch that guy. I wanna catch that dude. And when I die and get there, I want him to look back at me and go, Hey, man, I seen you’ve been chasing me all your life. You caught me. And I go, dang. It I’ve been after you forever. To me, heaven. Heaven is I meet the man. I was cable of becoming and we’re identical twins. That’s heaven.
EM (32:16):
Hell is we’re total strangers. And I can’t live with the idea that that might possibly happen. I don’t want that. I wanna meet the man. I was capable of becoming. And so when I’m thinking about making a decision or whether go for it or to have a new relationship, does it move me closer to heaven or not? And if it moves me to closer to heaven, then it’s a step I should take. And that’s why I live my life. Thinking that
RV (32:46):
Now follow ed, buy the book, listen to what this guy’s about. I’m telling you, we I’ve gotten the more I’ve gotten to know him. The more I’ve liked him. I’ve always been a fan. And the closer that we’ve gotten, the more that I’ve I have have developed a respect and a true admiration for this guy. I’m, I’m glad that he is out there in the world, doing what he’s doing, brother. We wish you the best of luck. Thank you for the compliment of being here. Thank you for the privilege of allowing us to play a tiny part in everything that you got going on. And we just wish you the
EM (33:17):
Best. Roy. It’s not tiny. The feelings are at least mutual and I love you. And I’m grateful for you, bro.