Category: Podcast

Ep 584: Unlocking the Power of Brain Health for Personal and Professional Success with Dr. Helena Popovic

[00:00:00] AJ: Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here. And [00:00:05] I am so excited, uh, to get to spend the next hour listening to the [00:00:10] amazing accent of Dr. Elena Vic. And, uh, she is [00:00:15] actually joining us from Australia, which we were just catching up about. I had the [00:00:20] amazing opportunity to live in Australia, uh, right as I was graduating college, and it’s.

[00:00:24] A [00:00:25] very near and dear place to my heart. So, uh, regardless of what I’m talking about today, you’re [00:00:30] gonna get to enjoy this amazing accent. Uh, not to mention amazing knowledge, [00:00:35] uh, from Dr. Helena and y’all as I normally do. I kind of give you a couple of [00:00:40] reasons of why this episode is important to stick around for, and I always find that it’s [00:00:45] important you know, what you’re about to get into so that you can commit for the hour.

[00:00:48] And if it’s not [00:00:50] for you, I’ll tell you, but there are some episodes that are just for everyone. And [00:00:55] today is one of those episodes because we’re gonna be talking about something that you will [00:01:00] have for the rest of your life and you need to know how to take care of it, how to nurture [00:01:05] it, uh, and how to support it.

[00:01:06] And it’s your brain, right? Like we need our brains. [00:01:10] Um, and so we’re gonna be talking a lot about brain health today, because that is her area of [00:01:15] expertise and specialty. So here’s what we’re gonna be talking about and why you should stick around understanding the [00:01:20] impact of brain health on your success.

[00:01:22] Okay. And, uh, that doesn’t matter if it’s personal or [00:01:25] professional, but brain health matters for longevity and a healthy longevity. [00:01:30] At that, we’re gonna talk about some importance in, uh, proactive measures that you can take to [00:01:35] prevent cognitive decline. And then also, uh, some practical strategies, which is what [00:01:40] I am most excited about, uh, for enhancing mental performance.

[00:01:44] Uh, I [00:01:45] actually selfishly shared with her, I’m gonna talk to her about how to get rid of brain fog, um, [00:01:50] at AKA. Mom brain. So if she can solve that problem for me today, it’s gonna be a [00:01:55] major win. Uh, but that is why you need to stick around for this entire episode, ’cause we’re gonna be covering [00:02:00] all of that and so much more.

[00:02:01] But let me formally introduce you to Dr. Helena and [00:02:05] then we’re gonna get to the goods of this interview, which is actually why you’re here. So, [00:02:10] Dr. Vic, uh, you have done so many things. You are a renowned doctor. [00:02:15] Speaker, you’re an award-winning author specializing in brain health, positive aging, and I [00:02:20] love that term, positive aging, but also with a heavy emphasis on dementia [00:02:25] prevention, which is a big part of your story and I’d love to hear more about that.

[00:02:28] Uh, but here’s, [00:02:30] here’s one of the things I think is really important is that you’re on a mission to empower people at any [00:02:35] stage of life on how to boost, boost brain function. Right [00:02:40] now, I don’t imagine that you’ve started out. Your professional [00:02:45] career post-college in academia with that? How’d you get into this?[00:02:50]

[00:02:50] DR HP: Well, it was rather circuitous route, um, in 2010, so that makes it [00:02:55] 15 years ago, shortly after my mother passed away with lung cancer, I was there with [00:03:00] my father and I happened to open the fridge and find a box of a medication called [00:03:05] tig, which is sometimes prescribed for people with Alzheimer’s disease.

[00:03:08] Hmm. I found it in the butter [00:03:10] compartment of the fridge, and I thought. I don’t know anyone with Alzheimer’s disease. So I asked dad, [00:03:15] who’s this medication for? And he said, oh, your mom said it was good for my memory. [00:03:20] Um, so I stick a patch on every day. I don’t think it does much good, but happy [00:03:25] wife, good life.

[00:03:27] That was how I first discovered that my [00:03:30] father had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease because I’d been living a thousand miles away [00:03:35] from my parents. So I only flew. To live at home again, to look [00:03:40] after my mother, after her diagnosis. Um, and so I had assumed that dad’s [00:03:45] confusion and depression obviously, and withdrawal, they were all symptoms of grief [00:03:50] because in an older person, grief, depression, [00:03:55] dementia, very similar symptoms, and it’s hard to tease apart.

[00:03:58] So I’d assumed it was grief, [00:04:00] but when I tracked down my father’s gp. Doctor, he confirmed the [00:04:05] diagnosis. And here’s the thing, such was the stigma around dementia in my [00:04:10] Serbian family of origin that my parents had not even told [00:04:15] their only child me. Wow. Their devoted daughter who also happened to be a doctor [00:04:20] that her father had Alzheimer’s disease.

[00:04:23] And so, and, [00:04:25] and in every, you know, when, when I found out about it, everybody said, oh look, just. Go back to [00:04:30] your life. There’s nothing you can do to help him. Put him in a nursing home and [00:04:35] don’t waste your time because there’s nothing you can do to help. Wow. There’s not like, there is no [00:04:40] cure. And yes, my medical training says the few medications that are [00:04:45] around are not really doing anything.

[00:04:47] Um, and there’s nothing you can do. But [00:04:50] I just didn’t accept that because there’s also something else we’re taught on day one of medical school, and that is [00:04:55] half of what you learn. In medical school, we’ll be out of date by the time [00:05:00] you graduate. The problem is you won’t know which half because that’s how, that’s a [00:05:05] scary thought,

[00:05:05] AJ: isn’t it?

[00:05:05] Isn’t

[00:05:06] DR HP: it a scary thought? But it is. It’s actually been, you know, [00:05:10] pushed me to, to keep learning because there are so many things that are just so out of [00:05:15] date that I learned, okay, it was a while ago, but nonetheless. So anyway, I thought, no, not good enough. [00:05:20] So I did a really deep dive, learned every, like, read all the papers I could from.

[00:05:24] [00:05:25] All, all corners of the globe about brain health and dementia. And I discovered something [00:05:30] that changed my world, and that is that just because something doesn’t come in a pill [00:05:35] doesn’t mean it isn’t powerful. Mm. Sleep, [00:05:40] stress management, food, exercise, music, art, social [00:05:45] stimulation, time in nature. I could go on and on.

[00:05:47] All of these things are medicine for our [00:05:50] mind as well as medicine for our body. Mm.

[00:05:52] And

[00:05:52] DR HP: so I applied all these things to my father and [00:05:55] I was able to look after him, keep him at home for 10 years. Wow. He passed away peacefully in [00:06:00] his sleep, shortly before Covid and people, you know, when people thought, but how come [00:06:05] he’s not getting worse?

[00:06:05] Dementia is supposed to get worse. He’s still recognizes you. He’s still [00:06:10] independent. His memory, he short-term memory was very poor, but mainly he just needed [00:06:15] supervision, whereas people forget how to eat, forget how to talk. Mm-hmm. Uh, can [00:06:20] no longer verbalize, can no longer dress themselves. None of that happened to dad.

[00:06:24] And so people [00:06:25] start asking me like, what are you doing? Do you think it’ll help me?

[00:06:29] Mm.

[00:06:29] DR HP: And I [00:06:30] said, absolutely. Well, there’s certainly, well, all the evidence suggests that at [00:06:35] any age or stage of life, we can and should be boosting our brain. Because [00:06:40] here’s the thing from our. The, the brain changes that can lead [00:06:45] to Alzheimer’s disease start 30 years before we get any [00:06:50] symptoms.

[00:06:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:50] DR HP: So you’re never too young to start boosting your brain and thinking about brain [00:06:55] health, but not only that, then it’s gonna help you be more productive, um, better [00:07:00] thinking, more creative. During your working life and everything you do [00:07:05] now will also go a long way to helping you prevent dementia as you age.

[00:07:09] So [00:07:10] I’m on a mission, I love that to, to send this message to everybody. Don’t be [00:07:15] complacent about your brain. Don’t believe any doctor, neurologist, [00:07:20] geriatrician who still say to you, you know, there’s nothing you can do. Get your affairs in order. [00:07:25] When you start to show signs of cognitive decline, because.

[00:07:29] You know, I’ve written [00:07:30] two books now on all the things that you can do and, and people, you know, have [00:07:35] written back and just gone, I’ve got my life back, you know, I’ve got my brain back.

[00:07:38] AJ: Okay. This is gonna seem like an [00:07:40] overly simplified question, but what is brain [00:07:45] health? Right? And I think that’s like even just asking like, what is brain health?

[00:07:49] Because I’m sitting [00:07:50] here going, I read a ton of health books. I’m very into nutrition [00:07:55] and sleep, and. Kind of on a health journey of myself and it’s like, I could not [00:08:00] tell you now. Yes. It’s like, yes, be outside and keep your brain active and keep it, [00:08:05] you know, eat healthy. Sure. But I don’t recall any time I’ve ever [00:08:10] been to my doctor and the history of my 42 years on this [00:08:15] planet, almost 42 of having a conversation.

[00:08:18] Let’s talk about your brain [00:08:20] health today, aj. So. What is brain health and just kinda like walk us through [00:08:25] like what are the simplest, most proactive daily things we can do to keep our brains [00:08:30] healthy?

[00:08:31] DR HP: Okay. Firstly, your doctor hasn’t talked to you about it because it’s not at the [00:08:35] forefront of their mind.

[00:08:36] They’re not really trained to think about it. A lot of [00:08:40] this information is very new. We probably learned more about the brain in the last [00:08:45] two decades. In, you know, this century than we did in all the previous centuries [00:08:50] combined.

[00:08:50] Hmm.

[00:08:50] DR HP: So it is a new area. Well, it doesn’t feel new to me ’cause I’ve been doing it for a couple of [00:08:55] decades, but still a few decades is still a very new area.

[00:08:57] So that’s why your doctor’s not [00:09:00] talking about it. And probably because you looks at you and go, you’re young, you don’t have to worry about it yet, because people [00:09:05] don’t realize how early those changes start taking place. So that’s [00:09:10] why people don’t bring it up. And also, uh, they just don’t wanna know about it because it’s so [00:09:15] scary.

[00:09:15] Dementia is more feared than cancer, and in fact, not in your country, [00:09:20] but in my country, dementia is the number one cause of death in Australian women, in [00:09:25] UK women. I think it’s maybe number three in this country, but yeah. [00:09:30] Wow. So, so it, it is a big deal. What does brain health mean? Well, it, it [00:09:35] actually means that everything we do.

[00:09:38] Everything we eat, [00:09:40] everything we experience actually leaves an imprint on our brain. And that can be [00:09:45] a positive imprint or a negative imprint. And what I mean by that is [00:09:50] we, you’ve probably heard of the term neuroplasticity.

[00:09:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:09:53] DR HP: Our brain [00:09:55] changes in response to each different activity performs. [00:10:00] And what that means is we can grow new brain cells.

[00:10:04] [00:10:05] We can lose brain cells. You know, you have an alcohol binge and you [00:10:10] know, you’ve, you’ve damaged quite a few brain cells. You know, you go for, [00:10:15] you know, you go for an intense exercise session, you know, a hit, [00:10:20] um, high intensity session. You’ve built a few brain cells so we [00:10:25] can make new brain cells, we can make new connections between brain cells.

[00:10:28] You do some really [00:10:30] intense, um, learning. Challenge yourself. Learn something new. You can. [00:10:35] You, you actually make new, new connections between brain cells. We can establish whole new circuits. We [00:10:40] can even change which cells perform, which functions, and this has revolutionized things like stroke [00:10:45] treatment.

[00:10:45] Mm-hmm. We used to think if somebody had a stroke and damaged part of their body, if they didn’t [00:10:50] get matter after a few better, after a few months of rehab, they probably never would.

[00:10:54] Hmm. [00:10:55] We

[00:10:55] DR HP: now know that with a specific intense form of therapy known as CIT, it stands for. [00:11:00] Constraint induced therapy cells from undamaged parts of the brain can be [00:11:05] recruited to take over the loss functions.

[00:11:07] Wow.

[00:11:07] DR HP: And I’ll give you an example of how they do that. It, it’s [00:11:10] relevant because you can extrapolate this to improve any brain function if you think you’re not [00:11:15] good at it. So basically they’ll get, say this is, say you’ve got, uh, the [00:11:20] left side was undamaged by the stroke, and the right hand is paralyzed. So they’re gonna [00:11:25] strap up the left side and say, you can’t use it.

[00:11:28] And they’re gonna put a glass of water, a [00:11:30] few millimeters in front of the fingertips of the damaged hand and say, try and touch the glass. [00:11:35] The person’s gonna go, I can’t. It’s, it’s paralyzed. Well just focus and try, try, try. And, [00:11:40] because it’s so close, they touch the glass and as soon as they’ve touch the glass, they push it a little bit further [00:11:45] away.

[00:11:45] They try again. And they practice this for several hours a day. But over the course of a few [00:11:50] months, they will regain the use of that paralyzed limb. And here’s the thing, even if your [00:11:55] stroke was years ago. You can still regain function. Never too late. It doesn’t [00:12:00] seem to ever be too late.

[00:12:01] Hmm.

[00:12:02] DR HP: Um, and when they scan the person’s brain, what’s [00:12:05] happened is cells have been recruited from other parts of the brain [00:12:10] and grow new nerve fibers.

[00:12:12] Fascinating. Isn’t that wonderful? Fascinat. So, so don’t ever [00:12:15] think that you can’t improve something, because in my experience, there’s always [00:12:20] something you can do to make, you know, to, to improve a situation [00:12:25] Now. There is no short answer to what are all the different things we can do to boost our [00:12:30] brain, because I’ve just said to you that everything we do has an impact on our brain.

[00:12:34] You know, [00:12:35] you, you wanna, you, you wanna bullet train to dementia, then drink to excess [00:12:40] smoke and vape, um, do no exercise, spend all day [00:12:45] indoors and just do, learn nothing new. Mm. I mean, that is a bullet train to [00:12:50] dementia. So. Let’s flip it around. I mean, in my, in my latest book, I’ve got 80 different ways that you [00:12:55] can boost your brain.

[00:12:56] I don’t think we’ll get through all of them today, but, but [00:13:00] it, it’s even hard to tease out which are the most important. But I’m [00:13:05] gonna start with cult, probably one that will, may surprise you. Culture cultivate [00:13:10] good relationships. Mm-hmm. Good relationships aren’t just a feel good thing. And, and I [00:13:15] mean, with family, with friends, with neighbors, with colleagues, clients.[00:13:20]

[00:13:20] Everyone you come in contact with, because good [00:13:25] relationships are the number one thing that will [00:13:30] boost one of the number one things that will boost your brain. [00:13:35] But it is the number one thing that will keep you healthy, happy, and live the [00:13:40] longest throughout your life. So why do you

[00:13:40] AJ: think that is?

[00:13:41] DR HP: Because good relationships [00:13:45] lower production of the hormone cortisol, which is our stress hormone.

[00:13:49] Reduce [00:13:50] inflammation, strengthen our immune system, make us feel [00:13:55] safe. Mm-hmm. Release a cocktail of feel good chemicals. All of these things are essential [00:14:00] for good brain function and good body function. You know, you want a strong immune system. You don’t want inflammation. These [00:14:05] are two main drivers of chronic disease.

[00:14:07] If good relationships are an antidote to that. [00:14:10] Then they’re gonna go a long way to preventing those diseases.

[00:14:12] AJ: Hmm. So I have a question for you [00:14:15] because as you’re talking about that, I can’t get it out of my brain. What you said earlier [00:14:20] about the number one leading cause of death for Australian women, and [00:14:25] you said another country as well, the uk.

[00:14:26] The UK is dementia.

[00:14:28] DR HP: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:29] AJ: Why [00:14:30] is that? I, is that connected to a lack of strong relationships in community? Like

[00:14:34] DR HP: what we are [00:14:35] not a hundred percent sure. That is still a big area of research. Several reasons have been [00:14:40] postulated. One is the estrogen hypothesis.

[00:14:44] Mm-hmm. [00:14:45]

[00:14:45] DR HP: When, when a woman hits menopause, there is a very abrupt drop in estrogen [00:14:50] levels.

[00:14:50] Estrogen is a really vital, um, hormone for good brain [00:14:55] health. Yeah, on a lot of reasons. You know, estrogen helps us use [00:15:00] glucose for energy in the brain. Estrogen actually, uh, [00:15:05] helps to keep nerve cells healthy. You know, brain cells healthy, [00:15:10] uh, helps to eliminate toxins. So you suddenly lose that hormone. You [00:15:15] suddenly lose a lot of protective functions in your brain.[00:15:20]

[00:15:20] Um, what we’ve found is that women who have. Early, you know, [00:15:25] premature menopause, which means a removal of her uterus or [00:15:30] ovaries significantly increased risk of dementia [00:15:35] unless they get hormone replacement therapy. Interesting. [00:15:40] So it does seem to be there, there may be an estrogen connection. [00:15:45] Um, and a couple, yes.

[00:15:49] AJ: Gotta [00:15:50] cut this. I got

[00:15:53] cough jobs

[00:15:53] AJ: for you. I swallowed the wrong [00:15:55] way. Hold on.[00:16:00]

[00:16:02] I was trying not to cough and swallowed and then I made [00:16:05] it worse.[00:16:10]

[00:16:13] Okay. I’m gonna pop [00:16:15] this in just to make sure I don’t cough anymore. Okay, hold on. Now I have watery [00:16:20] eyes.

[00:16:23] All right. [00:16:25] All right. So I want you to start back up with [00:16:30] when, uh, women start, like early menopause because they [00:16:35] lost an ovary or the uterus. So can we start right there? [00:16:40]

[00:16:40] DR HP: Yes. Okay.

[00:16:41] AJ: Ready? Go.

[00:16:44] DR HP: If a [00:16:45] woman has premature menopause, in other words, she has her uterus removed or [00:16:50] ovaries removed, usually for good reason, not just willy-nilly, um, that significantly [00:16:55] increases her risk of getting dementia because it, it’s an abrupt [00:17:00] cessation of estrogen production.

[00:17:02] So there, there really does seem to be an [00:17:05] estrogen connection there. Other things have been postulated. Um, [00:17:10] when a woman sustains a head injury, she doesn’t. Recover as well. As a man, [00:17:15] we are not sure why, possibly because men tend to have stronger neck muscles, so maybe [00:17:20] when she has head injury, there’s more rattling of the brain, more, more damaged [00:17:25] connections.

[00:17:25] There could be. In the past, women were less [00:17:30] educated, had less stimulating work, so they didn’t get the same mental stimulation. [00:17:35] That men did.

[00:17:36] Interesting. Um,

[00:17:37] DR HP: perhaps women are less physically active and, [00:17:40] and, you know, apart from relationships, physical ex, you must move [00:17:45] for your brain. Forget the, you know, I wanna go to the gym to lose weight.

[00:17:49] [00:17:50] Who cares? That’s the least important reason to go to the gym. But for brain health, it’s for brain health. And it’s [00:17:55] not, it’s every aspect of physical exercise. Sorry, I’m transitioning very quickly from [00:18:00] relationships to exercise, but, but. You have to move if you wanna maintain your brain [00:18:05] health.

[00:18:05] AJ: Like how much movement.

[00:18:07] DR HP: Okay. Firstly, I’ll give the three [00:18:10] types. Aerobic exercise, endurance training, strength training, [00:18:15] strong muscles equate to a strong mind and balance [00:18:20] as well. Good balance. So it appear, it [00:18:25] appears that, you know, the 150 minutes per week is probably. [00:18:30] Probably o you know enough, but if you can do a bit more, that’s great.

[00:18:34] Doing [00:18:35] high intensity interval training is really good, is better than just low level. But, [00:18:40] but let me just say, I don’t wanna put people off. Any movement is better than no movement, even five minutes a [00:18:45] day. So, for, and, and the reason, okay, people go, but why is exercise so good for the brain? [00:18:50] Yes, we get more blood flowing to the brain.

[00:18:53] More oxygen, more nutrients. [00:18:55] But there. You’ve heard of the gut brain connection? Sure. There’s a muscle [00:19:00] brain connection. When we move our muscles, they produce a cocktail of chemicals called myokines. [00:19:05] Scientists have tried to bottle these, but there’s too many of them and they have too many complex functions.[00:19:10]

[00:19:10] Myokines circulate in our blood to go to all our organs and keep our organs [00:19:15] healthy in various ways, particularly in relation to the brain. We produce a chemical when [00:19:20] we exercise. Whether it’s weight training or whether it’s, um, sprinting or [00:19:25] jogging or cycling or swimming or dancing, we produce a chemical in the brain called [00:19:30] BDNF.

[00:19:30] It stands for brain derived neurotrophic factor, and [00:19:35] this neurotransmitter actually stimulates the growth of new brain cells and new [00:19:40] connections between brain cells. And here in the states, they’ve actually done, um, studies [00:19:45] on school children where if they do. Um, exercise before their [00:19:50] exams, before their harder subjects.

[00:19:51] They do better because our brain does perform at its [00:19:55] best in that first hour after we engage in any sort of physical activity. [00:20:00] So, mm.

[00:20:01] AJ: So I have a question for you then.

[00:20:04] Yeah.

[00:20:04] AJ: [00:20:05] Knowing that we have this sitting epidemic Mm. Um, behind [00:20:10] laptops and behind screens and just very sedentary professional [00:20:15] environments for the majority of the days, including in school.

[00:20:17] Yes. Right. Specifically our [00:20:20] elementary and middle schools, which is just devastatingly sad. What are [00:20:25] the, the quick things to do if you’re, you know, at a desk all day? [00:20:30]

[00:20:30] DR HP: Couple of things we can do, but number one, I I, I wanna just acknowledge that sitting is the new smoking. [00:20:35] Mm-hmm. That people who sit for more than 11 hours a day, and that sounds ridiculous, but I [00:20:40] have colleagues, you know, people with desk jobs that drive an hour to work, sit at their desk nine to 10 hours, that’s drive [00:20:45] an hour back.

[00:20:45] That’s 11 hours. That person is at 40% increased risk of early death [00:20:50] from heart disease, stroke, cancer, complications of diabetes, [00:20:55] dementia. So it is a serious issue and it’s dose dependent. The longer you sit, the worse you [00:21:00] are. Why sitting so hazardous? Because whenever we sit, there’s no electrical activity in our [00:21:05] biggest muscles, which are our quads and our glutes, and.

[00:21:08] Uh, and we [00:21:10] also produce, and, and that sort of means the fats and the sugars stagnate in our blood. Mm-hmm. But also we [00:21:15] produce the opposite of mykines. We produce cytokines when we just sit. [00:21:20] Cytokines are pro-inflammatory molecules, and it means we’re [00:21:25] in a low level state of inflammation. So that’s not good.

[00:21:28] So what can we do? [00:21:30] Couple of things. Number one. Unfortunately, even if you flog yourself at the gym for an hour a [00:21:35] day, you’re not undoing all the damage of prolonged sitting. Some, but not all. [00:21:40] The simplest way is to just break up the sitting time every 20 to 30 minutes. Just [00:21:45] stand up for two minutes. You don’t have to go skipping a rope, but that would be great if you [00:21:50] did running up downstairs.

[00:21:51] But just stand up every 20 to 30 minutes and when I’m writing my books. [00:21:55] I have a timer that goes off every half hour. It’s just easier every half hour.

[00:21:59] Hmm.

[00:21:59] DR HP: And I [00:22:00] have a little standing, just a cheap little standing desk. So quickly move it across and [00:22:05] just type for a little while standing. ’cause I don’t wanna lose my train of thought or whatever.

[00:22:09] Sure. But, so [00:22:10] you just interrupt that sitting time and you know, all my lawyer friends break out in a cold [00:22:15] sweat because every six minutes is a billable unit, Uhhuh. And they don’t wanna lose. [00:22:20] Billable units. I said, but it’s not dead time. You can talk on the phone, you can read, you can still type. So just break [00:22:25] it up.

[00:22:25] AJ: Okay. So, I mean, I think that’s, I think that’s a huge thing because like even on days like [00:22:30] today I am doing several different interviews back to back to back. And it’s like, [00:22:35] I know that it, like during my quick breaks, it’s like I have to go and stand ’cause I can must, I can literally [00:22:40] feel it. Yes. Like kinda like stagnating.

[00:22:42] Yes. So what would you say. Um, [00:22:45] and people are

[00:22:45] DR HP: more tired when they sit all day than when they break it up.

[00:22:48] AJ: Yeah. And

[00:22:49] DR HP: they think, you just [00:22:50] think sitting, prolonged sitting is one cause of brain fog. But go on. I

[00:22:53] AJ: interrupted. Oh, and ’cause I [00:22:55] would love to talk more about this brain fog. So I’m curious to see what do you think are some of [00:23:00] the trends in workplace environments?

[00:23:02] Um, have you seen anywhere they are [00:23:05] doing more standing desks or like, my big Christmas present this year was a standing desk and [00:23:10] a walking pad. Right. So like yesterday I broke, I have to brag on myself ’cause I [00:23:15] broke my stepping record. I did 30,000 steps yesterday. Wow. Because it’s like for five [00:23:20] hours.

[00:23:20] Yes. I’m just like, yes, it’s low speed, it’s low impact, but I’m just like, f calls all [00:23:25] day. Might as well just step it out. Um, but there are so many work [00:23:30] environments where like you could do that. But yet we’re not. Have you [00:23:35] seen any trends in any countries or any companies where like they’re really bringing this in, [00:23:40] not just for the health, the, like the personal health, which is vitally important.

[00:23:44] We [00:23:45] gotta own that as individuals, but to hear everything that you’re saying, like, Hey, it boosts creativity, it, it boosts [00:23:50] productivity, like all the quote unquote corporate benefits that this [00:23:55] has. Surely companies are taking notice

[00:23:57] DR HP: nowhere near enough. There was a trend. [00:24:00] Uh, maybe a decade maybe. Yeah, maybe.

[00:24:03] Five, 10 years ago. Yeah, people started to get [00:24:05] standing desks and have meetings on the move. And meetings are so much more [00:24:10] productive if you’re standing or if you can, you know, have a rooftop, the garden or do it outdoors [00:24:15] or in nature, so much more productive. But sadly, people sort of [00:24:20] start and then it peters out and it hasn’t been kept up nearly enough.

[00:24:24] AJ: [00:24:25] Well, I, ’cause you said something is, I know some

[00:24:26] DR HP: companies are doing it,

[00:24:28] AJ: but not enough. But not

[00:24:28] DR HP: enough.

[00:24:29] AJ: But you, because [00:24:30] you said something and I brought this up before this started, this quote unquote mom brain, our brain [00:24:35] fog. And what I have noticed, at least for myself, I’d be curious to hear from like an actual [00:24:40] doctor on this.

[00:24:40] It’s like. The longer that I’m just sitting doing the same thing, it’s like the foggier my [00:24:45] brain gets. Mm. Like, is that just me? No. Or is that like a real thing

[00:24:48] DR HP: that, oh, that’s definitely a [00:24:50] real thing. You need to break up your focus. Um, so [00:24:55] again, if you want to sort of clear your head especially. Okay. [00:25:00] I’m gonna backtrack just a little bit.

[00:25:02] A major cause of brain fog for a lot of people is just not getting enough [00:25:05] sleep.

[00:25:05] Hmm.

[00:25:06] DR HP: Most people need seven to nine hours. Most people are not getting seven to [00:25:10] nine hours. I, I get it that the demands of life are great, but you’re just not gonna be [00:25:15] firing on all cylinders if you don’t get enough sleep.

[00:25:17] Sleep is when our brain detoxifies [00:25:20] magic happens. When we sleep in our brain. The spaces between our brain cells actually [00:25:25] expand and what’s known as glymphatic fluid. Flushes out the [00:25:30] toxins.

[00:25:30] Mm.

[00:25:30] DR HP: And if you are not asleep for long enough, you don’t get rid of the toxins. And those [00:25:35] toxins then build up over time and create more and more brain fog.

[00:25:37] AJ: So why aren’t people getting enough sleep? I’m, [00:25:40] I’m one of those few people where I sleep nine hours.

[00:25:42] DR HP: Fantastic. But

[00:25:44] AJ: my husband [00:25:45] is, has convinced himself that he only needs six hours. And it’s [00:25:50] like, I think you’re wrong. But I’m not a doctor.

[00:25:53] DR HP: Okay. 3% of the [00:25:55] population have the short sleep gene and they can get away with less.

[00:25:59] Whether Rory [00:26:00] is one of those, I don’t know. Most people overestimate that they have the [00:26:05] short sleep gene, so I’d be wary about that

[00:26:07] AJ: because he says he, he’s like, I literally can’t [00:26:10] sleep longer. Okay. And so I guess for me, like, why aren’t people sleeping like. [00:26:15] Because they’ve, they’ve got children and

[00:26:18] DR HP: jobs to hold [00:26:20] down and, and there’s definitely the children part for sure.

[00:26:23] Yes. Just because they’ve [00:26:25] put just modern living. Mm-hmm. So many demands. Getting children to [00:26:30] school, getting self to work, preparing meals, just getting [00:26:35] everything done. I think people tell themselves that, that. They’ve just got so much on their, they

[00:26:39] AJ: [00:26:40] deprioritize sleep to get the rest of life done. Yes.

[00:26:41] Basically.

[00:26:41] DR HP: Basically it’s deprioritizing sleep, but we have to, I mean, we [00:26:45] make the worst decisions. We eat badly when, when we wake up sleep [00:26:50] deprived. We will have high levels of the, of the hormone cortisol throughout the [00:26:55] day. Cortisol, remember the stress hormone? That means we feel stressed before anything has even happened.[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:02] DR HP: Sleep deprivation, um, [00:27:05] dampens the hormone leptin, which makes us feel full and, and increases [00:27:10] levels of the hormone ghrelin, which makes us hungry. And not only that, we don’t not, we’re not hungry for [00:27:15] Brussels sprouts. We’re hungry for junk food, for sugar, for quick fixes. [00:27:20] You know, we, we are more angry.

[00:27:23] We, we snap more just. [00:27:25] All the things I, I, I can just tell you an example of something, um, that happened in Australia, in [00:27:30] Brisbane. Um, there was a big event, a lot of police involved. And, and on the last day, a young police officer [00:27:35] was asked to take a bag of guns back to the police station, and we got, when he got to the police station, [00:27:40] he realized he’d forgotten the guns at the train station.[00:27:45]

[00:27:45] And, and there was this major like investigation. How on earth could a [00:27:50] police officer do something so stupid? Simple answer. He was really, he’d been work, he’d [00:27:55] done, I dunno how many days in a row, sleep deprived and it was sleep deprived. Mm-hmm. We do really dumb things when [00:28:00] we’re sleep deprived, so, so I think chronic sleep deprivation, you know, [00:28:05] contributes to brain fog, dehydration, and especially if you’re sleep [00:28:10] deprived, you need to drink more water.

[00:28:12] Again, it’s ’cause of a hormonal thing. I’m not gonna, well, the

[00:28:14] AJ: [00:28:15] detoxification right. Like the more water you drink, does that help? Just deep talk. That too. But it’s,

[00:28:19] DR HP: it’s [00:28:20] also, well just, just dehydration. Your brain needs water. Um, so the longer you’re awake, you just [00:28:25] need more. That’s right. Yes, exactly. Um, and taking [00:28:30] micro breaks, even just, you know, every 40.[00:28:35]

[00:28:35] Minutes to an hour. Don’t leave it much long. Don’t leave it more than more than an hour. [00:28:40] Take micro breaks. And what I mean by that is shift your focus from your desk, from your [00:28:45] computer, preferably just to nature.

[00:28:48] Mm.

[00:28:48] DR HP: Go and find a garden, [00:28:50] a go to garden. If nothing else, just see if you can get a picture of [00:28:55] nature.

[00:28:55] Looking at an urban environment isn’t as rejuvenating, but going for a [00:29:00] walk in nature, nature nurtures us. That is another thing that. [00:29:05] It heals our body, heals our brain, be for for many reasons. Number one, you’ve heard of the [00:29:10] microbiome, which is the trillions of bacteria in our gut. There is also an [00:29:15] aero biome, trillions of bacteria in the air, in nature.

[00:29:19] [00:29:20] When we inhale them, not just the bacteria, but also [00:29:25] chemicals called phyton sides, which are produced by trees, they strengthen our immune [00:29:30] system. They lower our blood pressure. They lower levels of the hormone [00:29:35] cortisol. Nature will energize us if we are tired. Nature [00:29:40] will calm us down if we are stressed.

[00:29:43] A bonus tip for you, if you’re ever in [00:29:45] hospital, ask for a room with a view of nature because hospital patients that [00:29:50] look out onto nature heal more quickly, need fewer painkillers, get [00:29:55] out of hospital sooner.

[00:29:56] AJ: Wow.

[00:29:57] DR HP: Prison. If you’re ever in prison, ask for a cell with [00:30:00] a view of nature. Let’s hope

[00:30:00] AJ: I am. Never in prison.

[00:30:01] No, but

[00:30:02] DR HP: just, just in case. Prisoners who look [00:30:05] out onto whose cells look out onto nature, they get sick less often. They better behave. They get outta [00:30:10] prison sooner. Phenomenal.

[00:30:12] AJ: Okay, so I, I have to stop because it’s like [00:30:15] these are seemingly so simple. Simple that we [00:30:20] ignore them.

[00:30:20] DR HP: Yes. Yes. That is the danger of this.

[00:30:22] That is the problem with this. It’s like, [00:30:25] yeah, I know I should eat better. I know I should exercise. I know I should get out into nature. By the way, [00:30:30] just to complete that 17 and a half minutes a day, 120 minutes a week, [00:30:35] they’ve done studies in England to find how much you need, how much nature you need to stay [00:30:40] healthy.

[00:30:40] So 120 minutes a week, combine it with [00:30:45] exercise, and you’ve killed two birds with one stone.

[00:30:47] AJ: Why don’t we do it? Like, I mean, these are [00:30:50] things that’s like, none of this is necessarily revolutionary. We all know it. [00:30:55] Uh, we know that we need to sleep, we know we should eat healthy. We know [00:31:00] we should drink water.

[00:31:01] Uh, most of us know we should spend out time outside. Most of us [00:31:05] know we should be moving. We’ve been hearing this for decades now, that sitting [00:31:10] does damage long term and yet we’re not doing [00:31:15] it.

[00:31:16] DR HP: Not a strong enough. Why Friedrich Nietzche. He who has [00:31:20] a powerful why can conquer any unknown how? Mm. I think it’s just when people are not sold [00:31:25] enough that this makes enough of a difference and it makes a huge difference.

[00:31:28] But I, I think [00:31:30] people don’t realize that it makes that much difference and it’s like, [00:31:35] oh, I just can’t be bothered. It’s, it’s sort of a, a negative perpetuating spiral. If you wake up [00:31:40] tired and sleep deprived, you’re less motivated. You don’t have the energy to exercise. It’s all too, [00:31:45] everything’s too hard.

[00:31:45] So it kind of starts with that. Then exercise [00:31:50] actually energizes. If you’re sitting all day, that comp, that makes you even more tired, so you’re even less [00:31:55] motivated. Then, um, you know, you have a sugary breakfast, like another big brain [00:32:00] booster. I’m sorry, quit the Coke and sugary beverages. Every [00:32:05] soft drink is a bullet to our brain.

[00:32:07] Unfortunately, fruit juices as well. [00:32:10] Because it’s a massive hit of sugar in a very small amount of time. Even if it’s

[00:32:13] AJ: all natural, no sugar [00:32:15] added it correct. It’s still so much concentrated. If you like fruit,

[00:32:18] DR HP: eat it. Don’t drink it [00:32:20] because how much, how, how many apples would you, you eat in one sitting? [00:32:25]

[00:32:25] AJ: One.

[00:32:25] DR HP: One. You can’t, not 20 not, but in a little apple juice, [00:32:30] minimum, three, four apples. That is a big, it’s just too much, too [00:32:35] much sugar. Now why is sugar damaging to the brain? I’ll spare you all the biochemistry. [00:32:40] Suffice to say, um, sugar is sucrose two smaller and it’s [00:32:45] made up of two smaller sugar molecules, fructose and glucose.

[00:32:48] The fructose [00:32:50] molecule is the more damaging when it hits your brain, it actually [00:32:55] to break that molecule down. It drains your brain cells of energy.

[00:32:59] It

[00:32:59] DR HP: does [00:33:00] not, fructose does not give you energy. Glucose does. But too much of it is a bad thing [00:33:05] too. But fructose actually drains brain cells of energy. It impedes [00:33:10] communication between brain cells, fructose messes with genes in two [00:33:15] really important areas of our brain, the hippocampus, our learning and memory warehouse, and our [00:33:20] hypothalamus, which regulates all our hormones.

[00:33:22] So you drink that [00:33:25] massive dose of sugar, and it’s like machine gunfire to your brain. And [00:33:30] yeah, you’ll get that initial high for a short amount of time ’cause you get that glucose, but then you [00:33:35] get that massive crash and then you’ve gotta start all over again.

[00:33:37] AJ: Because I have a personal question ’cause I have two [00:33:40] little boys who are ages five and seven.

[00:33:42] Um, so all things kid related are [00:33:45] just very top of mind for me, 24 7. Knowing everything that you’ve just [00:33:50] said, why do all of these companies then create [00:33:55] all of these things that you’re just talking about and gear them to children?

[00:33:59] DR HP: [00:34:00] Profit over people.

[00:34:01] AJ: I mean, it’s

[00:34:02] DR HP: absurd. It is absurd. Uh, it it [00:34:05] because it’s a trillion dollar industry.

[00:34:07] Let me just give you one thing, just just as an [00:34:10] example. If you changed nothing in your life but you decided you’d add one [00:34:15] small can of soft drink, I think, I dunno how many, we have three 30 mils, I dunno what [00:34:20] you’ve got here. Eight ounces. Eight ounces. That’s all. You just added that to your life. [00:34:25] You changed nothing else.

[00:34:25] By the end of the year, you would be six and a half to seven kilograms heavier. Just from that [00:34:30] one can of soft drink. You’d have a 22% increased risk of diabetes [00:34:35] and your risk of all chronic diseases will have skyrocketed and you are [00:34:40] eroding your brain function. Now, if you are a young, you see all the [00:34:45] studies they do on soft drinks, where they go, they don’t do any harm.

[00:34:48] They do them on young [00:34:50] fit, super athletic men. And they tell them to sip that soft drink [00:34:55] over an hour or two. Nobody sips a soft drink over an hour or two, [00:35:00] and so they can fudge the results. So I’m really, you know, I’m not a [00:35:05] conspiracy theorist. However, money talks, you know, fast [00:35:10] food companies like. Uh, quit all the junk food mm-hmm.

[00:35:13] Out there [00:35:15] because our body and brain was not designed to handle all these chemicals. Mm-hmm. [00:35:20] We simply weren’t. What’s my best dietary advice? It doesn’t matter if you are [00:35:25] vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, or carnivore. It doesn’t matter as long as you eat food that’s from [00:35:30] the land, from the sea, from the sky, or from a tree, not from a packet, not from a tin.

[00:35:34] If it [00:35:35] comes in the box, I’d throw it in the bin. I listen to your, uh, that’s so good. I listened to your, [00:35:40] or most of your podcasts, but, but, um, co Dr. Cody, Dr. Cody Goldman [00:35:45] Coleman

[00:35:45] AJ: mm-hmm.

[00:35:45] DR HP: Where you said, oh, I don’t eat sugar. This is, I get this all the time [00:35:50] with my patients. I don’t eat sugar. How did I get diabetes?

[00:35:52] When I don’t eat sugar? I do [00:35:55] the same thing. Go through your pantry and do an order. It was frightening. And it’s, it’s, it’s [00:36:00] terrifying. It was frightening. Every, everything from everything savory has sugar in it, from mayonnaise to, I was [00:36:05] shocked. Bread crackers, frozen meals, teriyaki sauce, sweet chili [00:36:10] sauce, salad dressings

[00:36:11] AJ: everywhere, everywhere.

[00:36:12] Just everything. Sugar and oils. Whereas in everything, [00:36:15] I could not cottage cheese, weave my own eyes. I, it was in everything.

[00:36:19] DR HP: It’s in [00:36:20] everything. So, so sugar is in everything and it’s, so, it’s hidden. That’s right. [00:36:25] Today. By the time a child is eight years old, they’ve already consumed [00:36:30] more sugar than the average person had in their entire life a century ago.[00:36:35]

[00:36:35] So it’s. Birthdays happen once a year for a reason. So you eat sugar once a [00:36:40] year?

[00:36:40] AJ: That’s right. That’s gonna be the new policy at my house. Sugar once a year. I mean, I’m not, [00:36:45] but I mean there’s plenty of natural sugar you can eat. Absolutely. In,

[00:36:47] DR HP: in, in your

[00:36:48] AJ: fruit. I mean, you get a good, ripe [00:36:50] piece of fruit and it’s like, it is a burst of sugar in your mouth.

[00:36:53] Burst of sugar.

[00:36:54] DR HP: Especially [00:36:55] if you’ve eliminated all the added sugar, you actually taste it more when I eliminate and that’s what

[00:36:59] AJ: it is. Our [00:37:00] taste buds have been so. You know, hammered. Yes. They’ve been so like [00:37:05] tapered down by all this other stuff that we can’t even taste the goodness of real whole food.[00:37:10]

[00:37:10] DR HP: And here’s the other problem, people don’t realize just how harmful junk food is and how [00:37:15] harmful soft drinks are there is. They go everything in moderation. No, no, no. We’ve lost touch [00:37:20] with what’s moderation, right? There is some work. Would you eat chew polish in moderation just because it tasted good. [00:37:25] So I put, would you smoke in moderation?

[00:37:29] No, you wouldn’t, [00:37:30] because there is no safe level of cigarette consumption that is so good. There is no safe level of soft drink consumption. [00:37:35] I’m sorry. There just isn’t. And there is really no safe level of junk food consumption. That doesn’t [00:37:40] mean you never eat cake or you never had B biscuits, but it just means [00:37:45] it’s a.

[00:37:47] Special occasion thing. Mm-hmm. And guess [00:37:50] what? Not every day you will enjoy it more. When I was a child, [00:37:55] Serbian sort of tradition, we had only a particular cake that you would eat, [00:38:00] um, at Christmas and at name day and at Easter. [00:38:05] And boy, I so looked forward to it. Mm-hmm. And boy, I savor it. And [00:38:10] you know, I wouldn’t have my whole piece today, so I’d have some more tomorrow and it would just last longer.

[00:38:14] Mm-hmm. [00:38:15] People don’t look forward to any food anymore because it’s every day. They can have [00:38:20] anything anytime, any day. You actually enjoy your food more [00:38:25] when you have it less often, and when you really savor it, um, [00:38:30] we don’t overeat because something tastes too good. We overeat because we’re [00:38:35] not paying attention to what we’re eating and we’re overeating because it’s not really satisfying.[00:38:40]

[00:38:41] One way, I, one thing I do with my patients too that go, ah, I just, this. [00:38:45] I could never give up X food. Let’s say it’s Krispy Kreme donuts, but I’m just using that as an [00:38:50] example. I go, okay, next time, please bring in a Krispy Kreme donut and we’re gonna eat it together. [00:38:55] And they go, what? Bring in a Krispy Kreme donut the next visit.

[00:38:59] So they do, and I go, [00:39:00] right, you are gonna eat this donut. Like you’ve never, ever, ever eaten it before. [00:39:05] Smell it. Don’t, don’t even eat. Just look at it first. Smell it. Take in the take in [00:39:10] the scent. Just, you know, what sort of flavors are you smelling it? Take a [00:39:15] bite, really try and absorb all the flavors. So eating really [00:39:20] mindfully after three bites, it’s like I’ve had enough

[00:39:23] Mm

[00:39:24] DR HP: I, [00:39:25] I can’t eat anymore.

[00:39:25] It’s too sweet. But you never paid attention until now. [00:39:30] And once you get rid of all the artificial, I say [00:39:35] artificially sweeten. I don’t mean using artificial sweetness, but that too is not good for a different reason. [00:39:40] But once you acclimatize your taste buds to real food. [00:39:45] Cashews and macadamia. Nuts are sweet.

[00:39:47] Milk is sweet. [00:39:50] Like, it’s like I don’t often drink raw milk, but occasionally I’ll just have a, [00:39:55] it’s thick and cream, it’s really sweet. And, and, and don’t get me started on, [00:40:00] um, the, the plant-based milks. Nothing wrong with almond milk [00:40:05] except that they add sugar, sunflower oil, artificial colorings, flavoring.[00:40:10]

[00:40:11] I had a girlfriend come and stay with me once who only drank soy milk. Nothing wrong with [00:40:15] soy milk. I went to the supermarket. My husband was just over it ’cause I was half an hour [00:40:20] reading all the labels trying to find a soy milk that I could morally buy for her. And not [00:40:25] po feel I was poisoning her. Um, I finally found one and ’cause all I had is soybeans and [00:40:30] water uhhuh.

[00:40:31] So I brought, I was so proud of myself. She said, I’ve never tried this [00:40:35] brand before. Tried nearly spat it out. Said, this is the worst soy milk I’ve ever tasted. [00:40:40] I said, that’s because it’s only soybeans and water. Yours probably has sugar, added sugar. [00:40:45] Um, most of them have, what else? Some kind of oils. Anyway, all I’m saying is [00:40:50] we don’t realize how damaging the food is because safety in numbers, if everybody’s [00:40:55] doing it, it should be fine.

[00:40:55] It should be fine, but you are too young. But doctors used to [00:41:00] advertise their favorite cigarettes. We get it wrong and we’ve gotta admit [00:41:05] that, you know, when we got it wrong with cigarettes. We’ve got it wrong with soft drinks and [00:41:10] juices and we’ve got it wrong with junk food. It is really harmful.

[00:41:13] AJ: You, my [00:41:15] friend, need to be plastered on billboards all across the world saying this because it is the [00:41:20] truth.

[00:41:20] And honestly, what we’re not hearing right now is truth. That’s right. Right. We’re hearing [00:41:25] a whole bunch of stuff. Uh, now here in the US you probably don’t follow as much of the [00:41:30] politics. Uh, but it was fascinating just a few weeks ago to hear the [00:41:35] American Heart Association. Mm. On the stand [00:41:40] saying that they disagreed with a lot of the new Make America healthy [00:41:45] again, you know, bans and practices and it was the American Heart Association and [00:41:50] going, well, we just don’t agree and we’re just sitting here going, look, watching this court appeal going, [00:41:55] what do you not agree with?

[00:41:56] No, I was gonna say, what do they not agree with? That all of the artificial [00:42:00] foods, uh, have a negative impact on heart Help. [00:42:05] But they, it’s, but they do. They do. They do. And it was just [00:42:10] fascinating to listen to these representatives going, well, there’s just not enough proof for us to make an [00:42:15] official stand.

[00:42:15] There is, there is, but at the end of the day, it’s like, who are they funded by? [00:42:20] Who are they funded by? Exactly. And so, uh, I was gonna tell you this quick, uh, thing because, [00:42:25] uh, it’s a, ever since I have. Radically become aware of this in my own [00:42:30] life and throughout all the package things, and read labels like a crazy person takes me two hours to go grocery [00:42:35] shopping every single time.

[00:42:36] Yes. Which is why you just stay and we call it perimeter shopping. Yes. So we [00:42:40] never go down the aisles. No. It’s just perimeter shopping. Um, but I give my kids an opportunity [00:42:45] every single time they go to the store with me, and here’s their opportunity. I’ll buy [00:42:50] anything that you want, as long as it has less than four [00:42:55] ingredients and less than four grams of sugar.

[00:42:57] DR HP: Wonderful.

[00:42:57] AJ: And if you can find it, bring it to [00:43:00] me and I will buy it for you.

[00:43:02] DR HP: Great.

[00:43:03] AJ: And you know what, they’re always [00:43:05] like, mom, that doesn’t exist. There is nothing. And I’m like, yet there [00:43:10] is, it’s called a banana, an orange, an apple. It’s called broccoli. It’s, [00:43:15] and it’s, it’s been fascinating for my kids because then anytime that we’re out, they’ll just [00:43:20] ask, does this have four grams of sugar?

[00:43:22] And so it’s

[00:43:22] DR HP: like, it’s so good,

[00:43:23] AJ: but it’s, but it. It [00:43:25] is that ’cause

[00:43:25] DR HP: because a child shouldn’t be having more than four grams of sugar a day sugar. And it’s like if I has more than four

[00:43:29] AJ: [00:43:30] ingredients, sugar, and if I cannot pronounce them, we cannot buy them. Mm. Right. We cannot. Fantastic. [00:43:35] I’ve become my, Rory teases me, he goes, baby, you’re just one step away from full blown hippie right now [00:43:40] because I bought my own almond milk maker.

[00:43:42] Wow. Right. The almond cow. Highly [00:43:45] recommended, uh, no affiliate fees, just really like it. And uh, you add almonds and water. [00:43:50] Fantastic. And then. Voila. Overnight, you wake up and you have fresh [00:43:55] almond milk and, but it is one of those things where it’s like, there’s so many tools at our [00:44:00] disposal to make it just as easy.

[00:44:01] Like, I’m not saying it’s just as easy of buying a carton from the [00:44:05] store, but kind of it is. I buy a bag, it’s a vomit, I throw [00:44:10] it in, I add the water, I turn it on, and I walk away. But it, it’s a mindset, [00:44:15] it’s a choice. And I’m only so passionate about this because a year ago I woke [00:44:20] up to. All the lies that I had been fed and was believing, which is [00:44:25] I’m healthy.

[00:44:26] Mm. And I wasn’t like I was facing [00:44:30] chronic illness with gallstones and my gallbladder disease and I wasn’t healthy and, but I thought I [00:44:35] was. Yes. And that was the problem. And that is the problem. That’s the problem. I thought I was, people

[00:44:39] DR HP: aren’t in enough [00:44:40] pain uhhuh that that’s the problem. And, and. People don’t [00:44:45] realize how good they can feel.

[00:44:47] People don’t realize just how much more [00:44:50] sharply they could think, how much better they could concentrate. You know, the norm is to [00:44:55] feel tired and run down every day, and so people have forgotten. Just [00:45:00] how healthy it’s been. Normalized it’s possible to be

[00:45:02] AJ: sickness has been normalized. Yes it has. Right?

[00:45:04] Foggy [00:45:05] brain, mom brain. I remember, um, you know, after children as I kept saying like, [00:45:10] oh man, mom, brain is real. Um, and what it, I didn’t click to me as like, no. What’s [00:45:15] real is sleep deprivation. Yes. Right. That is real. And because of that, I have, [00:45:20] quote unquote mom brain, foggy brain. A couple of things I want to,

[00:45:24] DR HP: uh, [00:45:25] address on that.

[00:45:25] Number one there. A [00:45:30] mom brain, your the brain changes a bit because now your priority is your children. [00:45:35] So if you would ab observe yourself, your brain is [00:45:40] actually sharper in relation to anything to do with your children.

[00:45:43] Mm.

[00:45:43] DR HP: Uh, in terms of [00:45:45] hearing Oh, absolutely. Your, your, your hearing is sharper in terms of [00:45:50] recognizing in the distance that your child is crying.

[00:45:53] Um, [00:45:55] so there are certain. That’s true. That’s true. I haven’t been a mother, so I don’t know all the details, but I [00:46:00] do know that the brain changes in a positive way in order for you to protect your children. [00:46:05] But what we notice is the ne because [00:46:10] that’s just how we program. We notice more that, that, you know, we are more tired.[00:46:15]

[00:46:15] Um, we tend to multitask more. Mm-hmm. Which drains the brain of energy, which increases the [00:46:20] brain fog as well. Mm-hmm. Um, another quick way to brain fog is to multitask all the time. [00:46:25] Now we, there are times when you have to multitask and there are two different types of [00:46:30] multitasking, by the way. There is multitasking where one thing is automatic, [00:46:35] like you can walk and talk that’s multitasking, but you don’t have to go, I have to put one foot in [00:46:40] front of the, that’s right.

[00:46:40] Other, so there is type, that type of multitasking is fine, [00:46:45] but it’s when you’ve got highly cerebral mm-hmm. You know, mentally [00:46:50] demanding tasks, the brain is not able to multi. Focus. [00:46:55] Mm, that’s good. The brain is only able to focus on one thing at a time. So if you’re multitasking, [00:47:00] you are very rapidly switching your attention from one thing to the next, to the next.

[00:47:04] Mm. And then back to the [00:47:05] first thing. So that means, you know, if you are talking to somebody on the phone, but also reading an [00:47:10] email at the same time, uh, then you are gonna lose. [00:47:15] Information one way or the other. Yeah, you’re gonna pick lose information from that email. You’re not gonna pick up [00:47:20] everything that the person’s saying.

[00:47:21] You’re more likely to make mistakes, you’re more likely to feel stressed, and [00:47:25] you’re more likely to feel tired after that conversation. Uh, and they’ve actually done studies where they’ve compared [00:47:30] people and they’ve said, you’ve gotta get these five tasks done. You in this room [00:47:35] multitask you in this room, must only do one thing at a time.

[00:47:38] And they time them. And then [00:47:40] they see who makes more mistakes and they just sort of question them afterwards. Now the people who multitask [00:47:45] think Uhhuh that they’ve done better a hundred percent of the time. [00:47:50] The mono taskers, do it faster, do it better, [00:47:55] make fewer mistakes,

[00:47:56] AJ: you know? And I love what you said, it’s not multitasking, it’s your brain can’t multi [00:48:00] focus.

[00:48:00] That’s

[00:48:00] DR HP: right. We can multitask. We can’t multi focus.

[00:48:02] AJ: That’s so good. All right, so Dr. [00:48:05] Elena, I could spend. The rest of the day having this conversation with you because this is, [00:48:10] this is the part that fascinates me. And I think it was like the moment that I hit 40, something [00:48:15] clicked in me and it’s like, Hey, are you, are you preparing your body to [00:48:20] live another 40 years?

[00:48:21] And it, I don’t know what it was, it clicked in me, why stop at

[00:48:24] DR HP: 40,

[00:48:24] AJ: [00:48:25] right? Or yeah, another 60, 70 years. And, but there was something that clicked and it, [00:48:30] I have been on this journey of like, no, I, I won’t be able to control all the factors in my life. [00:48:35] I won’t be able to control it. If I get hit by a car this afternoon, I won’t be able to control so many [00:48:40] things.

[00:48:40] But what I put in my mouth and what I do for myself are things that I can influence [00:48:45] every single day. Right. I can influence when I go to bed. I can influence keeping my brain active. I [00:48:50] can influence being out in nature. I can influence standing up. Right. And that’s why I thought this was such a [00:48:55] worthwhile conversation to share.

[00:48:57] It’s ’cause everything you share today are things that we can do. [00:49:00] Mm. Right. They don’t cost money. Right. These are things that we can do. Um, and so [00:49:05] first of all, I just thought this was amazing and such a a, it was a breath of fresh [00:49:10] air to be reminded, right? We can do things proactively to protect our [00:49:15] minds to, you know, prevent cognitive decline to, to stay healthy.[00:49:20]

[00:49:20] And so I wanna encourage everyone, um, this is not. The only thing, [00:49:25] uh, that Dr. Helena talks about, um, she’s got two amazing books. Um, she’s [00:49:30] got all kinds of information on her blog, and so if you go to. Her website, [00:49:35] Dr. Helena Popovic, P-O-P-O-V-I-C [00:49:40] popovic.com. We’ll also put that in the show notes, but dr helena popovic.com, uh, [00:49:45] you can access her blog, you can learn about her books, you can learn about all of her work and her studies and her [00:49:50] research.

[00:49:50] Um, not to mention, uh, all of her speaking engagements, uh, all around the world, and [00:49:55] so highly encourage you to go check her out. Learn more about the things that you can [00:50:00] do to stay sharp, uh, and stay healthy. Right. All right. Last top, last two [00:50:05] questions. Yes. Before I release you, what is your morning [00:50:10] routine?

[00:50:10] To have a happy, healthy brain.

[00:50:13] DR HP: Okay. I wake up, [00:50:15] I. My, the first thing I do is exercise, whether it’s, um, aerobic [00:50:20] exercise or strength training, which we didn’t talk about. So I could just quickly mention that. Um, the stronger [00:50:25] your hand grip strength, the stronger your mind get your hand grip strength tested because it tends to [00:50:30] reflect your overall body strength.

[00:50:31] And whenever we, um, work out build [00:50:35] muscles, we are actually building brain. So from our mid thirties onwards, we lose about [00:50:40] 5% of our muscles every decade. That means mid thirties to mid seventies, we [00:50:45] could lose. 20%. One fifth of our muscles. Wow. People go, I don’t care. I don’t wanna be [00:50:50] muscular. It’s not about your muscles, it’s about your brain.

[00:50:52] Mm-hmm. And also losing muscle means we want [00:50:55] more frail, more likely to have falls. All of that. And also, sorry, I [00:51:00] just have to get these few things in. Um, maintain good balance. People are having poorer [00:51:05] and poorer balance with with time, because we are less physically active because we spend [00:51:10] so much time sitting because we’re losing muscle mass, we should be able to stand on one leg.[00:51:15]

[00:51:15] For 60 seconds with our eyes closed, try it. Okay. Okay. So, so that one, and that’s because [00:51:20] balance, um, is, is uh, coordinated by part of the [00:51:25] brain called the cerebellum, which also regulates our thoughts and emotions. And people who have poor [00:51:30] mental health tend to have poor balance. You improve balance, you improve their mental health.

[00:51:33] Fascinating. So that’s a really [00:51:35] fascinating thing. That’s another whole other story. Um, so, so I go to the gym, but [00:51:40] while I’m going to the gym, while I’m driving to the gym. I practice gratitude because one [00:51:45] topic we didn’t cover, which is also really important, is that feeling positive emotions [00:51:50] boosts our brain and our body.

[00:51:52] That’s a whole other topic. Why? [00:51:55] Because when we feel a positive emotion that strengthens our immune system. They’ve [00:52:00] actually measured studies that, that they’ve done it on actors where they spend a whole day [00:52:05] working with depressive depressing scripts.

[00:52:08] Mm.

[00:52:08] DR HP: And then they actually take [00:52:10] blood samples.

[00:52:11] They’ve lowered their white cell count, which is part of their immune [00:52:15] system. And when they test the function of their white cells, they’re more sluggish responding [00:52:20] to bacteria and viruses. So back on the other hand, when, [00:52:25] when, when you have actors working with uplifting, happy scripts, their immune system stays [00:52:30] strong, there’s, there’s no change.

[00:52:31] So, so I practice and one of the, some, and people go, oh yeah, [00:52:35] and, and your, um, one of your other interviewees, Jason. Only a couple of weeks ago [00:52:40] said, oh, positive thinking doesn’t work. I’m, I’m not suggesting you force yourself to be positive if you are [00:52:45] not find back doors mm-hmm. To, to improving your [00:52:50] mood if you’re feeling flat.

[00:52:51] Gratitude is a fabulous one. I start every day with reflecting on what I feel [00:52:55] grateful for. I love that it’s, look. It could be shocking things going on in our lives, [00:53:00] but there’s always something we can be grateful for. I always think about this at an airport when people get [00:53:05] irate, impatient. You know, are you, why do you have to check my language?

[00:53:09] And I’m [00:53:10] thinking, the fact that you are at an airport [00:53:15] able to catch a plane, you are part of the privileged few in this, in this world. [00:53:20] Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Not of all the people. If you can catch a plane. [00:53:25] Be grateful that you are in that. Minority of the world’s

Ep 583: One Leadership Principle You’re probably Ignoring: Self-Talk | Ian Koniak Episode Recap

[00:00:00] Anything that we want in life follows something that I called in my Take the [00:00:05] stairs book, the Creation Principle of integrity, which is that you [00:00:10] think it, then you speak it, then you act, and then it happens. And that the [00:00:15] premise here is that all of creation from this beautiful hotel behind [00:00:20] me to the, to the camera, I’m recording this on to the screen that you’re watching and to this, to this [00:00:25] chair that we are sitting in.

[00:00:27] Starts and follows the same creation [00:00:30] process. You think it, you speak it, you act, and it happens, which means that the [00:00:35] spoken word is the genesis. Of all creation. And [00:00:40] if that is true, that the, that the, the spoken word is the first time when I [00:00:45] say something, that’s the first moment that something exists. It can, it comes out of my [00:00:50] mind into the world or through the written word or the spoken world.

[00:00:53] And it, once it’s out there, now, it [00:00:55] can impact others. And, and it, and I, it can be adapted and edited and molded [00:01:00] and shaped and, and so the spoken word is really important. That’s where creation comes from. And. [00:01:05] And the life that you have, hopefully is one that you [00:01:10] have created, or at least the life that you’re going to have.

[00:01:14] [00:01:15] One day is one that you realize that you are creating now. And if at, if at least [00:01:20] that is true, that the life that you’re gonna have one day is what you are creating right now, then [00:01:25] your words matter tremendously because. They [00:01:30] mark the onset. The genesis of creation is the spoken word, and, and [00:01:35] so here’s the question and here’s the dilemma.

[00:01:38] What are you telling [00:01:40] yourself about yourself? What are [00:01:45] you, what are you saying to yourself about yourself? [00:01:50] I’m not even talking about or touching on or addressing all the things that other people [00:01:55] say about you or the movies that you watch and the music you listen to and, and, and the books [00:02:00] that you read, and how much that Im impacts you when I’m just talking about here is what do [00:02:05] you tell yourself to be true about who you are?[00:02:10]

[00:02:11] Because whether you realize it or not, you are creating [00:02:15] through your own words who you are. [00:02:20] And here’s the part that is so heartbreaking, [00:02:25] and this is something that we have found to be, be so true [00:02:30] for those of you that have kids, or for those of you that are [00:02:35] married, you have a spouse or you have a a, a, a, a partner, a boyfriend, or a girlfriend.[00:02:40]

[00:02:40] Most of you would never let someone talk about [00:02:45] your kids the way you allow yourself to talk [00:02:50] about you. Many of you would [00:02:55] never, ever accept someone talking about your spouse or your [00:03:00] partner the way that you allow yourself [00:03:05] to talk about you. I mean, [00:03:10] if there’s on on no day, would it be acceptable [00:03:15] for for you to allow someone to talk about your parents [00:03:20] the way that you talk to yourself every day?[00:03:25]

[00:03:26] That is heartbreaking and it’s, it’s taken me a long time to realize that for [00:03:30] a lot of us, we struggle with this of, of just the, the tape that’s going on [00:03:35] in our head. And, and sometimes it’s ’cause we don’t realize it and a lot of times it’s ’cause we think it’s [00:03:40] true. We think, gosh, I really am stupid or I really am, you know, gonna be poor.

[00:03:44] I [00:03:45] really, you know, my ideas really don’t matter or my voice is insignificant. And [00:03:50] why do we believe those things to be true? The reason that we believe those things to [00:03:55] be true is not because they’re true. We believe what we hear most [00:04:00] often. That’s it. You don’t believe what is true. [00:04:05] You believe what you hear most often and what you hear most often.

[00:04:09] [00:04:10] What you hear more than anything else about yourself is what [00:04:15] you tell yourself about yourself. So [00:04:20] if you would never let someone. Talk to your parents [00:04:25] that way, or you would never let someone talk about your partner or your [00:04:30] spouse in that way, or if you would never let someone [00:04:35] talk about your kids in that way, [00:04:40] then you better not allow yourself to talk about yourself [00:04:45] in that [00:04:50] way.

Ep 582: How I Built a 3 Million Dollar Coaching Business in 4 years with Ian Koniak

[00:00:00] Rory: [00:00:05] Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand [00:00:10] podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you [00:00:15] learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden [00:00:20] and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times [00:00:25] bestselling author.

[00:00:25] And this show is to help experts learn how to become more [00:00:30] wealthy and well-known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. [00:00:35] One of the great privileges of my life is when our clients [00:00:40] succeed and getting to feel like we’ve played a small part in helping [00:00:45] somebody do something awesome in their own life.

[00:00:47] And we never get to take credit for it ’cause it’s [00:00:50] not our credit to take, it’s their credit to take. But this next gentleman that you’re [00:00:55] about to hear from is one of my favorite success stories, one of my personal [00:01:00] friends, mine and AJ’s. We’ve known him for a very long time, and you’re gonna hear some [00:01:05] of that story.

[00:01:06] And he was one of our very first brand builders, group [00:01:10] clients. Um, early on. He, he knew us from our former life. [00:01:15] Um, and so a couple years into Brand Builders Group, he joined us and, [00:01:20] uh, I’ll give you the formal bio. Okay. So Ian Cognac is our longtime [00:01:25] friend, but he is the president and he is the founder of Untap Your [00:01:30] sales potential.

[00:01:31] Which helps sellers go from good to great by [00:01:35] mastering mindset, habits, and skills needed to perform at the highest level in sales. [00:01:40] He has sold over a hundred million dollars in revenue in his career and he is the [00:01:45] former number one enterprise account executive, uh, for [00:01:50] salesforce.com. He is also, uh, also worked in the Dean of Pavilion’s [00:01:55] Enterprise Sales School.

[00:01:56] And he’s a speaker, he’s a coach, he’s an expert in sales. That’s [00:02:00] where we met him years and years ago, over decades ago at this point. And, [00:02:05] uh, Ian leads sales training workshops for Fortune 500 companies. He [00:02:10] speaks on stages. Uh, he, he appears in the media with several, has been on several [00:02:15] of the top 100 podcasts.

[00:02:17] And, um, I’ll go ahead and just spill the [00:02:20] beans. He four years into his business, so he started with Brand Builders Group about four [00:02:25] years ago. His fourth year in the business, he did three and a half [00:02:30] million dollars in annual revenue. He is [00:02:35] qualified for the Inc 5,000 list in his first year of eligibility and is [00:02:40] just someone that we kind of hold up as a model to go look at what’s possible.[00:02:45]

[00:02:45] So with that, Ian,

[00:02:46] Ian: welcome to the show. So good to see you again, man. It was [00:02:50] great to see you briefly in LA and I’m excited to dive into the story and, and [00:02:55] how, how we built it.

[00:02:56] Rory: So, yeah, just for people who don’t know, so we [00:03:00] met you through aj, aj, uh, ran a sales training [00:03:05] workshop for your sales team back in 2008.[00:03:10]

[00:03:10] Yeah, it was right

[00:03:10] Ian: when, before he wrote the book, take the Stairs. So, okay.

[00:03:14] Rory: [00:03:15] So it would’ve been, that was probably more like 2010, 2011, 2010, something like that. ’cause the book came out [00:03:20] in 2012. So, but over a decade ago. So we met you in a former life, [00:03:25] became friends, uh, and stayed in touch. Then we [00:03:30] exited that business, started over with Brand Builders Group, and then a couple years later we [00:03:35] reconnected.

[00:03:35] Mm-hmm. When did you start untap your sales potential? [00:03:40]

[00:03:40] Ian: I started, I launched unap Your Sales Potential in May [00:03:45] of 2022. Okay. I originally had started a business called Ian [00:03:50] Cognac Sales Coaching after starting with Brand Builders Group, and we had focused on [00:03:55] doing business to business training. So we’d go to big companies and we trained their sales team, and I [00:04:00] quickly realized I was trading time for money and that wasn’t gonna scale.

[00:04:03] And so I decided to pivot [00:04:05] from B2B to B2C and sell directly to. The individual [00:04:10] sellers who are there are millions of them, and, and create a program that, that had, um, [00:04:15] a combination of, of one-on-ones, but also group coaching and online, online training as [00:04:20] well, via a course. So we, we started, we launched in May of [00:04:25] 2022 was our first launch.

[00:04:26] I had already been on my own for about a year, had [00:04:30] left Salesforce for about a year at that point.

[00:04:32] Rory: Okay. Yeah. So, so you joined us [00:04:35] around 2020. Something like that. A couple years after started it was, it was [00:04:40] 2000.

[00:04:40] Ian: It was 2019 to 2020 in that range. Before I had left [00:04:45] Salesforce and when I was building my business, while working still at [00:04:50] corporate is when I worked with Brand Builders.

[00:04:51] And then I stayed with you guys to do several workshops [00:04:55] where we did, um, you know, content workshop. We spend a two day with, with Jeremy and the team kind of [00:05:00] thinking about the structure of Run Top your sales potential. And I continued to work with your [00:05:05] implementation team on building out the portal and Kajabi and, and, uh, really [00:05:10] getting the infrastructure set up around the LMS and, and everything that went along with [00:05:15] that.

[00:05:15] Rory: Yeah. So it’s just, I, I want people to know that because it’s like, it’s a [00:05:20] amazing, first of all, congratulations on three and a half million dollars in annual revenue in [00:05:25] your fourth year. Thank

[00:05:26] Ian: you brother. And, and I’ll say we’re running about 60, [00:05:30] 60% margin. We just got the p and l. So really good margin on, on the business as [00:05:35] well, um, after, you know, cost of delivery and payroll and whatnot.

[00:05:39] So [00:05:40] it’s a profitable business. It’s not just revenue.

[00:05:43] Rory: Yeah. And I want to, I want to hear about the [00:05:45] business model, but I just for, for those of you listening to go, you know. E [00:05:50] Ian started with us and it didn’t really, it not like it necessarily took [00:05:55] off in those first couple years. You were working at your corporate job, you were posting videos on [00:06:00] LinkedIn, but just to fast forward for everybody to go, if you knew [00:06:05] that five years from now.

[00:06:06] If you followed a system and you worked the plan, and you [00:06:10] did the things that we told you to do and you executed, and like, if [00:06:15] you knew that in five years you would generate three and a [00:06:20] half million dollars, would you be willing to pay the price for five years? Like, [00:06:25] would you be willing to make the sacrifices?

[00:06:26] Would you invest in the training and the coaching and, [00:06:30] and making the videos? So take us back in to. Your [00:06:35] first video’s on LinkedIn mm-hmm. And how you started [00:06:40] there. So

[00:06:40] Ian: this is a real important point for all the, for all your audience [00:06:45] is when I launched Untapped Your Sales Potential in 2022. Okay. I did a [00:06:50] launch that was six figures.

[00:06:52] Immediately it was like two 50, 300,000 [00:06:55] for in a day or two since launching to the point where PayPal shut me down, [00:07:00] Stripe shut me down. ’cause they didn’t know if it was real or not. So I had to be submitting docs in the middle of the launch to [00:07:05] let them know, Hey, this is legit. Um, because we. You know, the, the cards weren’t [00:07:10] going through ’cause they, they, they stopped us.

[00:07:11] We were doing so well. And I, and I share that because that [00:07:15] was a result of the, the prior three years of building a [00:07:20] brand and building an audience and building trust to the point where I had a big wait list, I had [00:07:25] credibility. So when I finally had a product on top of your sales potential, the demand was [00:07:30] literally seeming, and, and that is really what you’re asking about is how did you get to that [00:07:35] point?

[00:07:35] ’cause the revenue comes. Uh, as a lagging indicator of the leading indicators that you [00:07:40] do, the KPIs that you’re doing. So my journey started with brand builders. It really started, um, [00:07:45] with you, Rory. You were just starting the company and we had our call and, and you said you came at the [00:07:50] perfect time, but I didn’t.

[00:07:51] Near death experience in December of 2018. And, [00:07:55] um, it, it was, uh, I won’t get too detailed, but it, it. It [00:08:00] helped me realize that my life had been very self-serving. It had been very [00:08:05] focused on me and what I could do for myself and and my family. And I was really focused on money [00:08:10] and recognition and a lot of the things that sellers tend to tend to focus on.

[00:08:14] And I. [00:08:15] When I was, the

[00:08:15] Rory: culture encourages you to focus on those things. On the sales culture. It’s

[00:08:18] Ian: a performance, it’s a [00:08:20] performance culture and leadership. And that was the world I lived in for, you know, for my whole life. [00:08:25] And so, um, what happened is I got stuck upside down on a rollercoaster and hung up there for [00:08:30] 30 minutes.

[00:08:30] No way. Yes, yes way. And in my life flashed before [00:08:35] my eyes. I thought I would die. And what I realized is I. Had, if I died, all of [00:08:40] my wisdom, all of my knowledge, all my gifts, all my lessons would’ve died with me and I wouldn’t have [00:08:45] made a legacy and helped other people. And I, I promised to God when I was hanging up, I said, I [00:08:50] will not wait any longer.

[00:08:51] I don’t know what it’s gonna look like, and I promise I [00:08:55] will start serving people now. And at that moment, the ride took off and that was my [00:09:00] origin story for my business and shortly thereafter. I called you and you said, [00:09:05] Hey, I’m actually started. We just started this thing. You’d be perfect for it. And I took the leap of [00:09:10] faith.

[00:09:10] So at that point, I had no plan. I had no business model. I did [00:09:15] not have a way to monetize. I just had you as a mentor

[00:09:18] Rory: and FYI. [00:09:20] Yeah, so, so like, yeah. So that, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. [00:09:25] Okay, so that is, you’re upside down on a [00:09:30] rollercoaster. You decide I’m gonna do this. Then what happened? So [00:09:35] then you found us.

[00:09:36] Ian: So then I found you right when, when the, when the, the student is [00:09:40] ready, the teacher will appear. And you had had all that stuff go downward. Now brand builders had [00:09:45] started and it was like divine time. It was perfect. And I, I flew out to [00:09:50] Tennessee and went to the finding a brand DNA workshop. And one of the things that.

[00:09:54] We [00:09:55] discussed is, is just building an audience and, and I decided to do what was called a [00:10:00] 365 day challenge, and every day I was gonna post a video, one [00:10:05] minute or less, a short video, giving a tip and giving some help in terms of. [00:10:10] Either personal development or sales, or mindset or habits or just kind of sharing my, my [00:10:15] playbook, my secrets to, to being successful that I had kept with me.

[00:10:18] And the goal simply was if I [00:10:20] died, at least I know I was helping people. And I did that on Instagram. I, I, I spent every day [00:10:25] building on Instagram and I built a good following on Instagram. And what [00:10:30] happened was, um, like how

[00:10:31] Rory: many people. Like when you say good following, this is not millions of people. I want [00:10:35] people No,

[00:10:35] Ian: no, no.

[00:10:35] It was like thousands. It was like five, 6,000 and yeah, it was [00:10:40] engaged. The videos were getting hundreds of views each time. But you know, I had a lot of people that loved the [00:10:45] content and that. Was not how I got [00:10:50] my business monetized. What what happened was, um, I [00:10:55] was building all the infrastructure for my brand at Brand Builders [00:11:00] during the year.

[00:11:00] I was also posting a video a day. So when I say infrastructure, what I mean is, [00:11:05] um, I was building my content. I was building my presentation, I was structuring [00:11:10] what I was gonna teach. I was, um, looking at the website, the logos, the, the [00:11:15] actual. Um, copy for, for my site, ev everything that goes into the [00:11:20] foundation I was building while doing these videos.

[00:11:22] And so I spent a year building all this, [00:11:25] call it the newsletter, the infrastructure, the website. And then what I realized [00:11:30] quickly is that Instagram wasn’t where my people were. You know, I, I, it [00:11:35] was great for me getting comfortable being on camera, and it was great for me [00:11:40] learning to be consistent and have discipline around content creation.

[00:11:44] [00:11:45] But what I ended up doing in January of 2020 was I took all of [00:11:50] that strategy that I had on Instagram. I launched my newsletter, I launched my website, I [00:11:55] launched my blog, and I moved it over to LinkedIn and that’s where my business started. I. [00:12:00] Really exploding as in 2020 when I changed platforms and went to LinkedIn.

[00:12:04] [00:12:05] ’cause the people I was talking to were all sellers working at tech companies and they were [00:12:10] on LinkedIn, they weren’t on Instagram. And so that was really what, what [00:12:15] ended up happening is I built the muscle of content creation and video creation and communication [00:12:20] on Instagram. That was my, my beta. And then when I moved to LinkedIn.

[00:12:24] Um, [00:12:25] now I had a, a way to capture all of the, the, um, audience via my newsletter. [00:12:30] So I started building up this newsletter in 2020 and, and built that pretty [00:12:35] substantial for the next, I’d say two years. And on LinkedIn, once [00:12:40] I started PO posting, I would get a lot of dms and people would, would say, Ian, can you, can you, [00:12:45] uh, coach me?

[00:12:45] Do you coaching? Can you help me? And I started doing one-on-one coaching as my [00:12:50] initial revenue stream. And, and that was really. Um, we made about [00:12:55] $70,000 while I was at Salesforce in 2020. And then I would do a couple keynotes to a [00:13:00] few businesses, and that was really the year. I’ll, I’ll take one more step back.

[00:13:04] [00:13:05] Um, I had some personal challenges where I was going through all this, but I was also [00:13:10] living a double life and, um, struggling with addiction,

[00:13:13] Rory: which I wanna, yeah, I want to talk to you about that, and [00:13:15] I wanna talk to you about that in a second. I want, I wanna, I wanna rewind though, just to. [00:13:20] I think so many people go, oh, well Ian got lucky.

[00:13:23] He went viral, built millions of [00:13:25] followers, and I, and it’s like, that’s not the story here. No. The story is you had [00:13:30] five or 6,000 followers, but they were legit followers on [00:13:35] Instagram. And then you moved to LinkedIn, you said you build your newsletter. Did that, did that mean [00:13:40] you had millions of people in your newsletter?

[00:13:42] Oh my God. How, how many today? How many? I, I, I, [00:13:45] I hope you don’t mind ’cause I just, since you’re one of ours, I’m drilling under the details. Yeah, please, please. How big was [00:13:50] your newsletter at the end of that first year on LinkedIn? I.

[00:13:53] Ian: Maybe a thousand [00:13:55] people. Maybe. I mean, it was very slow in

[00:13:57] Rory: the beginning. A thousand people.

[00:13:58] Yeah. So you said I built it [00:14:00] substantial, which, and I just, I want to clarify for people, ’cause some people [00:14:05] think, oh, substantial. Is James Clear? He is got 3 million people on his email list. We’re talking. A [00:14:10] thousand, but they were a thousand real humans. They were all

[00:14:14] Ian: sellers, all [00:14:15] target audience, all ICP and my LinkedIn following by the end of that year was [00:14:20] probably 5,000.

[00:14:21] So again, very small at this point before going [00:14:25] full time. Because it wasn’t about the following, it was about the content creation, [00:14:30] about the program creation, the system creation, and, and it was about getting money. So these, [00:14:35] these folks that were following me, they were reaching out, they were highly engaged, and they were willing to pay [00:14:40] for one-on-one coaching with me.

[00:14:41] And for me, that was really. Um, [00:14:45] validating that I had a business model that could replace my Salesforce income. ’cause I was one of the top reps at Salesforce. I [00:14:50] was making great money. I was the sole breadwinner for my family. I wanted to know that if I was gonna go and [00:14:55] do this full-time and run my brand and my coaching business full-time, that I could replace my [00:15:00] Salesforce income without skipping a beat.

[00:15:01] And so,

[00:15:02] Rory: and we still, to this day, we still teach the fast, what we call [00:15:05] the fast cash formula, which is posting, posting a video every day. [00:15:10] Asking your friends and family for referrals offering one-on-one coaching. And it’s like we teach all the like [00:15:15] templates and everything to this day, and it’s like, you, you did that.

[00:15:19] Mm-hmm. [00:15:20] And then you scaled. Okay. But there’s a big part in between that I want to talk about, which [00:15:25] is maybe not so pretty because we’ve got, here’s your origin [00:15:30] story and now we see you today and it’s like three and a half million in revenue. But [00:15:35] there’s a big part of your journey that happened, Ian, that I also want people to [00:15:40] know and I, whatever level of truth.

[00:15:43] You feel [00:15:45] comfortable sharing, but I want people to know the real story of what happened [00:15:50] in your life because it was not sunshine and rainbows. It was not viral. It was not. Oprah [00:15:55] discovered you, it was not. You gotta, you hit it big on the lottery [00:16:00] like so can you tell us like what was going on? I would wanna.

[00:16:03] Ian: I would love to, and I [00:16:05] wanna, I wanna for, for the audience listening, um, this is heavy and it’s, [00:16:10] it’s very real and raw. Yeah. A bit

[00:16:12] Rory: of a trigger a warning here too. Just like if you have [00:16:15] little baby ears nearby, like, probably this, this is adult. We’re gonna have adult conversation for a [00:16:20] minute.

[00:16:20] Ian: Yeah, so, so here’s what was going on.

[00:16:22] I was a very high performing [00:16:25] seller, and I was a high functioning addict. So I had struggled with [00:16:30] addiction my entire life. Um, drugs, alcohol, and sex. And, and those [00:16:35] things were, um, a big part of how I got validation and how I [00:16:40] coped with the stress and the overwhelm of the pressure I’d put on myself. And, and just the, [00:16:45] the general, um.

[00:16:47] I would say excess. I was living in, in [00:16:50] flesh and desires of the flesh. And in, um, in [00:16:55] 2020, you know, after a year of being in brand builders, what I started, and I say it’s, it’s [00:17:00] God’s grace, and it, it was a sign from God. But I started realizing that I had a [00:17:05] double life, and here I was trying to coach and trying to train and be this role model.

[00:17:09] [00:17:10] And in, in, um. In my personal life, I was hiding, I was hiding secrets [00:17:15] from my wife. I was going to strip clubs and massage parlors, and I was, um, [00:17:20] I was watching pornography and I wasn’t telling my wife any of this stuff, and I [00:17:25] decided I wanted to confess to my wife in 2020. It was February, [00:17:30] um, 13th, 2020.

[00:17:31] This is the exact date. I had a guilty conscience. I [00:17:35] knew that I could not be the man that I proclaimed to be publicly if I had [00:17:40] private secrets and if I wasn’t living in full authenticity and full truth. And [00:17:45] I, I give full glory to God with, with this because it wasn’t me. It was, it was a [00:17:50] calling, it was a deep moral calling of, you know, living a righteous life.

[00:17:53] And I wanted to break free of [00:17:55] this. And I had tried on my own for many years and just continued to, to slip and, [00:18:00] and, and. You know, compartmentalize this activity. And, and [00:18:05] rationalize. And rationalize stands for rational lies because they’re rational, but you’re lying to [00:18:10] yourself. And any addict or anyone who struggle struggles know, knows what I’m talking about.

[00:18:14] Um, and [00:18:15] I couldn’t do it on my own. So I decided to confess to my wife. And, um, [00:18:20] I told her I was, I was, uh, specifically I was going on webcams. I, I didn’t tell her the [00:18:25] full extent of what. What I was doing, but I said, I’m watching porn, I’m watching webcams. [00:18:30] And she’s like, what’s that? I’m like, well, it’s, it’s basically women who are, um, [00:18:35] now unfortunately, it’s, it’s more rampant than ever with OnlyFans, but it’s, it’s [00:18:40] webcams of real women.

[00:18:41] And, and I said, I know how you feel about porn. I know how you feel about strip clubs. [00:18:45] You know, I just wanted to tell you I’m doing this and get your thoughts. And, um, [00:18:50] she, she collapsed. Uh, she, she fell to the ground. She was four months pregnant and she, [00:18:55] hmm. Started, um, trembling and shaking. Um, and then she started having [00:19:00] labor contractions and we thought we were gonna lose the baby.

[00:19:03] So I, I went and [00:19:05] rushed, rushed to the hospital. Um, and the whole way to the doctor, I’m [00:19:10] praying, I said, God, I don’t know what I’ve done, but please don’t take this baby. I promise I will change. I [00:19:15] promise I will get help. Please don’t take this baby. And we get to the. He puts [00:19:20] the ultrasound and it was the longest 30 seconds of my life.

[00:19:22] I’m hysterical. [00:19:25] And, um, he looks up and he said, there’s a heartbeat. The baby’s okay. And I said, [00:19:30] thank God, thank God. He’s like, what were you cheating? What’d you do? And I said something like that. I’m like, does this [00:19:35] happen a lot? He says, I see it every week. Wow. Women coming in because they’re men [00:19:40] are hiding and living, um, a lie or keeping secrets from their wife.

[00:19:44] [00:19:45] And that to me was the beginning of my rebirth. That was when I found God. That was when I found [00:19:50] Christ. I was baptized in, uh, last year after five years of studying and. [00:19:55] Um, I got into recovery for addiction. I stopped my personal brand to, I [00:20:00] stopped brand builders and I said, no matter what happens, the most important thing in the world is to keep my [00:20:05] family together and to break this generational curse that was, frankly, [00:20:10] um, long before me, before I was born.

[00:20:12] This has been in my family and I was exposed to things at a [00:20:15] very young age, and, you know, I, I, I, that was the. That was the, the [00:20:20] life I inherited. And, and I’d made a decision that this would stop with me and my kids would not [00:20:25] inherit what I did. And, and I devoted myself to recovery. And that was my focus [00:20:30] for 2020.

[00:20:31] Um, and I, I, I share that because [00:20:35] that was necessary for me to get where I am today. And it was part of my [00:20:40] brand building. Um, it, it wasn’t just sales training, I was talking about. [00:20:45] Authenticity and integrity and all the things that I had to do in order to get to a [00:20:50] place where I would attract people from a place of truth and, and from a [00:20:55] place of love and service.

[00:20:56] I had to face my own demons first before I can do that. And, [00:21:00] and I’ll just tell you this, while my brand is focused on helping sellers untap their [00:21:05] full potential, the amount of people and men specifically who have reached out [00:21:10] that have struggled with similar afflictions is. More than I can ever [00:21:15] even think was possible saying Me too.

[00:21:18] I’ve been doing this in secret [00:21:20] and, and I’ve helped a lot of people get into recovery for a very taboo [00:21:25] addiction that I don’t think anyone really talks about, but is rampant in our society with the. [00:21:30] With porn and with the access that we have. So I, it’s been five years and, and [00:21:35] by God’s grace, I, I am living a life of honesty and integrity with my wife and [00:21:40] been sober for five years.

[00:21:41] And, and I, I, um, I’m very proud of, of [00:21:45] those changes. And that’s been part of my, my story is sharing some of these very personal [00:21:50] things. And in the process it’s attracted a lot of. Sellers who, who tend to [00:21:55] struggle with some of these areas and some of these addictions. Um, it’s very [00:22:00] common in that business and sales space and, um, a lot of people have come to me [00:22:05] because of that, because of my faith, because of my battles with addiction and A DHD and [00:22:10] all the personal changes I’ve made.

[00:22:12] And speak to, it’s attracted a lot of [00:22:15] people to my, my business and my brand. And that’s one of the main things they cite as a reason they’ve [00:22:20] signed up is that vulnerability and that story.

[00:22:22] Rory: Yeah, I mean that’s a, [00:22:25] uh, that’s a crazy story. Um, yeah, [00:22:30] thank you for sharing that. And I, part of, [00:22:35] there’s so many powerful parts of it.

[00:22:38] One of the [00:22:40] connections I want people to make though is [00:22:45] on the surface, you would think that sharing all of those [00:22:50] things would destroy your personal brand. I. You would think [00:22:55] it would eliminate people from paying you. [00:23:00] You would think you would just get trashed and you, you know, [00:23:05] ha ha havoc and like, you know, trolled online about all of these [00:23:10] things.

[00:23:11] And I’m sure you’ve received some of those, which you will [00:23:15] receive anyways. You receive some of that anyways, but [00:23:20] sharing the hard parts of your story.[00:23:25]

[00:23:25] Doesn’t usually hurt the business. It usually [00:23:30] helps the business long term because people go, oh, Ian [00:23:35] is a real, he’s a real dude. He struggled with real [00:23:40] things and he is really willing to like lay it all out there [00:23:45] and. You know, I’m not saying that that would be the strategy everyone [00:23:50] should follow that you would just like take all of your darkest secrets and lay ’em out on the web.

[00:23:54] And I [00:23:55] also don’t think you’re saying that you did that right away. There was a no, you shared it with your wife, [00:24:00] you dealt with this. You went, you went to recovery, you healed from it, you moved [00:24:05] on. And then later it, it’s, it’s like you don’t, you don’t share your [00:24:10] hurts. While it’s an open wound, you, you share it once, once it’s a scar.

[00:24:14] Not, and not [00:24:15] even, you’re

[00:24:16] Ian: in a healthy place and you’re out of it. I mean, you’re never entirely out of [00:24:20] addiction. There’s always, you know, temptation. But, but fundamentally, you’re, you’re spot on. Like I [00:24:25] wasn’t when I was in it, I was. Saving my family and my marriage, and more [00:24:30] importantly, like living a life I could be proud of and God could be proud of.

[00:24:33] And I share it now because I [00:24:35] believe it’s part of God’s will to talk about the things no one else is willing to because [00:24:40] I. People need to know they’re not alone. And especially men who, who struggle and shame with, [00:24:45] with some of these activities and married men who are hiding, um, secrets from their, their partners.

[00:24:49] No one, [00:24:50] I don’t know anyone that talks about this personally, and I just think it needs to be done. Whether or not it [00:24:55] stains my brand, whether or not people, you know, don’t wanna work with me is irrelevant. I’m doing in [00:25:00] my mind God’s will by helping people have loving, honest marriages. [00:25:05] Which you’re best positioned to serve the person you once were.

[00:25:08] And that was me [00:25:10] hiding. So that’s what I’m saying. Hundreds of men have come out to me and said, Hey, me too. How [00:25:15] can I get help? And that’s, that for me is the most fulfilling, even if I’m not getting paid for it. [00:25:20]

[00:25:20] Rory: And that, you know, I want people to also know, like. That is all a part of why [00:25:25] we’re proud of you.

[00:25:26] Right? We’re not only proud of the, the mission driven messengers who have led a [00:25:30] perfect life and grown their business. It’s, it’s the, the part that makes me so [00:25:35] proud of you, Ian, is the part where you just said, where you said, I don’t [00:25:40] care if it hurts my brand, I don’t care if I lose revenue over it. [00:25:45] I’m doing this to help people.

[00:25:48] Yes. And that’s like, [00:25:50] that’s the. That’s the part where you go, I’m willing to risk [00:25:55] whatever it is about me, if it’s in the service of others. [00:26:00] And you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. Right. I mean, that’s why [00:26:05] we say it all the time and you go and it’s amazing. You know, you talk [00:26:10] about God, like God specializes in resurrections.

[00:26:14] [00:26:15] Right, like God, God specializes in redemption. God [00:26:20] specializes in using broken people. God specializes in using people who [00:26:25] aren’t perfect and, and, and you go, you know. You look through the Bible, [00:26:30] whether it’s, you know, Moses who was a Hebrew, you talk about, uh, you know, [00:26:35] David, who was a shepherd, Jesus who was like literally born in a [00:26:40] stable to a poor family.

[00:26:42] Like, uh, Paul, who was a murderer. [00:26:45] Like our God specializes in using broken [00:26:50] people and, and making things beautiful. And I, and I think one of the reasons why he does [00:26:55] that is because that’s part of how he gets the glory. Is he [00:27:00] gets, he gets the glory in those redemption stories to go, how [00:27:05] could you survive this?

[00:27:06] How could your, your, you and your wife, you and your wife are happily [00:27:10] married, you have multiple children now you, here you are talking on a podcast to the [00:27:15] whole world airing your dirty secrets, so to speak, and it’s like. How [00:27:20] could that happen? Because it’s like, ’cause God is blessing it. He’s redeeming it.

[00:27:23] Now. I [00:27:25] do wanna make sure people know you don’t do this when it’s a scab. You do it once. It’s a [00:27:30] scar. That’s kind of like the general rule of thumb that I, you know, try to [00:27:35] delineate. It’s like you cannot do this while this is fresh. You have to, like you said, you have to be in a place where it’s [00:27:40] healthy, you’re past it and that’s when you, then you talk about it.

[00:27:44] Um. [00:27:45] But Ian, what a beautiful

[00:27:47] Ian: redemption story. I’m getting. I’m getting emotional, man. It, it’s, it’s [00:27:50] such, it’s so spot on. It’s like everything we go [00:27:55] through, right? Everything we’ve been through that we can’t fix on our own, [00:28:00] strengthens our faith and strengthens our connection with God. And, and that’s the cornerstone of my [00:28:05] story is I can’t, but God can.

[00:28:07] And, and my story is a glor [00:28:10] glorification. Amen to God. Amen. Because everything that. Brought me to [00:28:15] a rock bottom and brought me to that place of full surrender. Brought me to Christ, brought me to [00:28:20] to my faith, and, and, and it’s, it’s still ongoing. It’s, it’s like when you [00:28:25] think you can, you’re humbled and, and it’s always to lead us back to God and I.

[00:28:29] [00:28:30] Ironically, you just said, make, do, do this when it’s your scar, not your scab. [00:28:35] Our next theme of our next mastermind in which we have 80 people coming together from our community, from around [00:28:40] the world is make your scars, your superpowers. Mm-hmm. That’s the theme of our [00:28:45] next mastermind. So yes, we’re a sales training, but we’re gonna go deep in terms of [00:28:50] bringing out things that people may be ashamed of that are holding them back is once you’re.[00:28:55]

[00:28:55] Free. The most free person in the world is the one with nothing to hide, and [00:29:00] that’s been the genesis of my brand is once I had nothing to hide, once I put it [00:29:05] all out there, I was free to serve. I didn’t have this baggage and this heavy weight [00:29:10] that I was carrying because I truly was in service and I was leading with spirit.

[00:29:14] And, [00:29:15] and, and I say that because, um, it’s such a blessing to have gone through this [00:29:20] and it is such glory to God. So I’m really glad that you see it the way, that way. That’s the way I see it [00:29:25] too. And it’s not something to be ashamed of. It’s something I’m proud of more than anything, is saving [00:29:30] my marriage, keeping us together, and living a life of honesty and integrity in a world where.

[00:29:34] [00:29:35] So many people are lost and so many marriages end in divorce.

[00:29:39] Rory: Yeah. Ab [00:29:40] absolutely. I, I, um, one of our family philosophies is to live a [00:29:45] life that would stand up to the scrutiny of transparency, right? Just live a life. That would be like, if [00:29:50] everyone saw everything, you know? ’cause people can say bad things, they can make stuff up.

[00:29:54] But [00:29:55] like ultimately if you’re just living that life where you go, come audit, like, come audit, [00:30:00] right? Like, um. That’s super powerful. And, and, and one of the things my [00:30:05] pastor says, um, is, you know, he told [00:30:10] me that a, a mentor had shared with him is that your influence will never grow wider [00:30:15] than your character runs deep.

[00:30:18] Your influence never grows [00:30:20] wider than your character runs deep. And the work that you did of. Healing your [00:30:25] character and solidifying your character and cleaning up your [00:30:30] character and, uh, creating a rock solid character [00:30:35] then became the foundation that was so solid that boom, you put, you put that [00:30:40] together with the vulnerability, the solid character, and then your normal ex, your, your [00:30:45] actual expertise and work ethic and, you know, maybe some coaching along the way and just like.[00:30:50]

[00:30:50] Boom, here you are. A completely changed life. [00:30:55] Um, it’s really, really inspiring, Ian. It’s really, every part of [00:31:00] this to me is inspiring. Um, thank you and we’re really proud of [00:31:05] you. Where, where should people go if they want to learn, uh, more about you and, and what you’re [00:31:10] doing and like, uh, you know, especially if they’re like in sales,

[00:31:14] Ian: and I think, I [00:31:15] think you just nailed it, right?

[00:31:16] You can’t build your brand from a shaky foundation. You can’t build [00:31:20] your business unless you’ve done the work on yourself. Because once you’ve done that, [00:31:25] it will shine through your content, through your energy, through you know, your [00:31:30] transparency and, and through your stories, frankly. ’cause you’re gonna have the stories that really people connect [00:31:35] to in, in a place of authenticity and truth and vulnerability.

[00:31:38] And so. [00:31:40] Um, that’s right. Once that was, that once that work was in a good place, I could focus on [00:31:45] the brand. I left Salesforce, I put in service and the rest was history. I went from [00:31:50] 5 33 in 2021 to one, five to two, five, and last year to three five. And it’s [00:31:55] been a steady, progressive growth. But it all started with doing the work on myself.

[00:31:59] And I, I [00:32:00] just encourage anyone listening to face your demons, face your fears, be [00:32:05] honest, be truthful, do the inner work ’cause it’s gonna help you. Ultimately, um, in your [00:32:10] business, you can’t be one thing in your business and be something else in your personal life. And, and I [00:32:15] think that’s something not a lot of people really speak to, and it’s really important.

[00:32:18] So if people [00:32:20] wanna follow me, um, there’s really three channels that I, I’m on. Uh, you can go to untap your [00:32:25] sales potential.com. That’s where if you wanted coaching or. Any kind of [00:32:30] support with your business, um, in, in the sales capacity, uh, that’s the best [00:32:35] place to go and talk to my team. Um, YouTube. I have, uh, over 500 [00:32:40] videos posted now.

[00:32:41] Mostly sales training. I, I post on mindset habits [00:32:45] and selling skills. I’ve been doing every single week a new video and then we cut up, we do some shorts, but [00:32:50] I’ve been doing that, that content diamond for, for the past.

[00:32:53] Rory: Well, baby Content [00:32:55] Diamond. Shout out to Brand Builders Group following the system.

[00:32:58] Ian: Every week without fail [00:33:00] posting twice a day on LinkedIn and, and doing a new video every week, um, via newsletter. So [00:33:05] YouTube is great. LinkedIn’s where I kind of live from a social standpoint, not Instagram or [00:33:10] TikTok. I’m on LinkedIn, Ian Cognac at LinkedIn. And uh, yeah, I have a newsletter as [00:33:15] well where I send out a new video training every week.

[00:33:17] And we just launched a free course. It’s a 12 week [00:33:20] course. Um. It, it’s called the Fundamentals of Elite Tech Sales. If you wanna [00:33:25] Google that, you can get that as well for anyone listening.

[00:33:27] Rory: Yeah, that’s really cool, man. I, I, [00:33:30] um. I love, you know, I love [00:33:35] seeing the fundamentals as part of this story, right?

[00:33:37] There’s this whole personal aspect, but there’s another part that’s just [00:33:40] like getting clear on your brand, your brand positioning, who your audience is doing the content [00:33:45] diamond. Well, starting with one-on-one coaching, like so many of the things that we teach people to [00:33:50] do and go, you know, you don’t have to be, be a believer in God to like learn from Ian’s [00:33:55] story about what has happened.

[00:33:58] But man, if you’re not a [00:34:00] believer. You gotta see the, you gotta at least go, what a powerful redemption [00:34:05] story of like, you know, you going to the rock bottom. And I think that’s what I think [00:34:10] that’s, sometimes I think we experience rock bottoms because that’s, that’s when [00:34:15] we start paying attention to God. We start paying it.

[00:34:18] We, we, we really, we [00:34:20] really, in our lives, we really start paying attention to God. [00:34:25] We have no other option. Like when we’re out of hope, when we, when we, once we’ve [00:34:30] exhausted everything else and we’ve tried all the different things, then we start paying attention to God and [00:34:35] it’s like, and he’s there and he will be there and he will meet you and you’re just, you’re a [00:34:40] real life living example of that redemption story.[00:34:45]

[00:34:45] It’s inspiring and it’s hopeful, and it’s powerful and it’s [00:34:50] courageous. So thanks for sharing it buddy, and thanks for being a, being here. And [00:34:55] thank you for the privilege of letting us be a little part of all you’re doing.

[00:34:58] Ian: Thank you for your [00:35:00] mentorship, your guidance, your example. Thank you for putting out your faith and, and [00:35:05] your channels.

[00:35:06] And, and it’s, um. It’s admirable and, and I, I just love what you’re [00:35:10] doing as well and I’m grateful to be part of it, so thank you so [00:35:15] much.

Ep 581: Choose Your Hard | Jamal Miller Recap

[00:00:00] [00:00:05] Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand [00:00:10] podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you [00:00:15] learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden [00:00:20] and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of Fame speaker, and New York Times [00:00:25] bestselling author.

[00:00:25] And this show is to help experts learn how to become more [00:00:30] wealthy and well-known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. [00:00:35] We all have a hard. We all have hard things in our life, and some of [00:00:40] us get simple things, but the point is, is no matter what our choices are, we have the [00:00:45] ability to choose.

[00:00:46] That was one of the great gifts that God gave to human beings. [00:00:50] He gave us the power and authority to choose. Now, sometimes, [00:00:55] uh, our choices lead to hard things. Sometimes they lead to easier things [00:01:00] and good things, but often the hard choices now are what lead to the [00:01:05] simpler, easier, better things later. But the point being is [00:01:10] that all of our choices can be hard.

[00:01:12] And hard isn’t a bad thing. [00:01:15] Uh, think about it like this. You get to choose your hard, [00:01:20] but think about the feeling that you have after you choose the [00:01:25] hard thing. Great example. Over the weekend, I have two choices. [00:01:30] Do I want to lay on the couch and binge the [00:01:35] house of David, which is awesome, or do I want to [00:01:40] go on a intense nature hike with my kids?

[00:01:44] Right? [00:01:45] Either one of those are not necessarily bad things. It’s how am I going to [00:01:50] feel at the end of those things? And often when we choose the more [00:01:55] challenging or the harder road, the harder path, we feel a greater sense of [00:02:00] satisfaction at its end. Not saying that I don’t love a good ending to an [00:02:05] episode of the House of David, but I’ll also tell you that the natural endorphins.[00:02:10]

[00:02:10] And being in nature and enjoying time with my kids, although it was seemingly the [00:02:15] harder choice in the moment to get my hiking shoes on, put my jacket on, [00:02:20] rally my two young kids get out in nature and and hustle. Seemingly that’s [00:02:25] hard, but the feeling that I get after completing the hard is. So much better [00:02:30] than completing the easy, right?

[00:02:32] Anytime that I do something exceptionally hard, [00:02:35] physically, mentally, emotionally, the, the depth of the [00:02:40] satisfaction is always greater than when I made the seemingly [00:02:45] easier, simpler choice in the beginning. Now we all have a hard to choose, [00:02:50] right? It’s hard to lack money. It’s hard to have too [00:02:55] much money, right?

[00:02:55] It’s hard to be overweight. It’s hard to be too thin, right? It’s [00:03:00] hard to be single. It can be hard to be married. It’s hard having kids. It’s [00:03:05] hard not having kids if you don’t have them, right? It’s hard to stay fit. [00:03:10] It’s hard if you’re not fit right? No matter what we do, there is a hard and we get to [00:03:15] choose it.

[00:03:16] I’m just encouraging and challenging that the [00:03:20] satisfaction and the sense of accomplishment is greater when we choose to do the hard [00:03:25] things. Not for the sake of doing hard things, but typically the hard [00:03:30] things is where we see growth. I. It’s where we get to experience a [00:03:35] change in our bodies and our minds and our souls and our spirits, right?

[00:03:39] Having a hard [00:03:40] conversation lends itself to stronger relationships. Not having the hard [00:03:45] conversation deteriorates existing relationships. It might [00:03:50] feel easier to just avoid it and to bury it deep down, but. That harbors [00:03:55] resentment and bitterness and it creates a divide in relationships. Yeah. It’s [00:04:00] harder to have hard conversations that are emotional and you’re gonna have hurt feelings, and they’re [00:04:05] gonna have hurt feelings, but by having hard conversations, you can restore what’s [00:04:10] broken.

[00:04:10] That is harder, but it is more satisfying to do it. I feel [00:04:15] the same way after. Choosing to eat healthy, which is hard. [00:04:20] In a world where everything is fast and convenient and packaged, it is hard [00:04:25] to go, no, I’m going to make fresh food and take the time. Not only [00:04:30] is it hard, it’s expensive, right? But it takes more time.

[00:04:32] It’s harder to do it, but the way that I [00:04:35] feel after a healthy meal versus a grab and go right [00:04:40] fast food meal is. Astronomically different, not even in [00:04:45] comparison, right? It is choosing the hard to go, it’s gonna take more time, it’s [00:04:50] gonna be a little bit more expensive. Uh, this is a commitment I’m making that is hard.[00:04:55]

[00:04:55] Choosing to eat on the go in your car with no rest and a bunch of fast processed food [00:05:00] that’s also hard on your body, and that’ll catch up at some point. The point to [00:05:05] all of this is there’s always choices to make, and it’s hard either way. [00:05:10] Right? Uh, that, that is the challenge of the, this side of heaven, the world that we live in [00:05:15] today.

[00:05:15] Like things are hard, but they’re also good, right? Good comes from [00:05:20] doing the hard thing, like it’s hard to plant and harvest. There is [00:05:25] good crop, good fruit that comes from hard work. And that’s not just an [00:05:30] agricultural farming analogy, that’s a life analogy. There is good fruit that [00:05:35] comes from hard work.

[00:05:36] So as you’re heading into your day, I’m just [00:05:40] encouraging you to choose your hard ’cause. It can be hard either way. You get to choose. Are [00:05:45] you gonna choose the good hard? Are you gonna choose the hard? That just continues to be hard [00:05:50] over the course of time? Choose your hard. You get to [00:05:55] [00:06:00] choose.

Ep 580: Don’t Chase Money—Chase Purpose: How Jamal Miller Built a 7-Figure Media Company from Rock Bottom

AJ Vaden (00:01.058)
Hey everybody, welcome to the influential personal brand, AJ Vadin here, and I’m super excited to introduce you guys to Jamal Miller. Jamal and I happen to be in a mastermind together, and we met on an elevator with his then, at the time, very pregnant wife in Colorado Springs. before I formally introduced him, I just wanted you guys to know, he’s one of those people that emanates joy.

He lights up the room, his energy is contagious, and even though some of you may be meeting him for the first time, I promise you, I ensure you, after this interview today, you’re gonna wanna follow him. I also wanna let you guys know who this episode is for. As you guys know, I always kinda tee this up so you know, like, hey, is this for me or not? Because if it’s for you, I’m telling you, it’s for you and you wanna stick around.

to the very, very end. There’s no skipping minutes. Don’t get off early. This is one of those episodes. So how do you know if this is for you? If you feel stuck or have ever felt stuck or stagnant or even uncertain about where you’re going, maybe you’re in a season of transition, maybe you were doing something and now you’re trying to do something new or you were known for something and you’re trying to be known for something else or

or maybe you’re in a season of successful transition and success isn’t really quite what you thought it would be. Or maybe you work with your spouse. Maybe you left corporate America to go all in on this entrepreneurial vision with your spouse and you’re going, I don’t think this is working. I think we might be in trouble here. If you fit in any of those categories, we’re gonna talk about all of those and then some. And I’ll tell you this real quick.

Jamal in the last 30 days, he and his wife just got done with a $3 million dollar launch. And so if you’re just curious how to pull that off, then this is an episode that you want to stick around for. So, okay, I know you’re done wanting to listen to me, so let me give you a quick formal bio of Jamal Miller, and then we’re gonna jump into this very awesome interview. All right, here we go.

AJ Vaden (02:14.754)
Jamal Miller is the founder of the multi-million dollar Miller Media Group. He is a pastor at heart, so don’t be surprised if you get some pastoring today. He is also a purpose-driven entrepreneur. And as Rory and I also work together, I also love that him and his beautiful bride share this business together. He’s gonna take us behind the scenes on his incredible transformation from

relying on food stamps just seven years ago to building one of America’s fastest growing media companies. And like I said, just came off last 30 days with a $3 million lunch, a launch, and also just 90 days ago had his fourth baby. So he’s got lots going on, but you’re going to hear about the heart and the mindset shift around strategic decisions that helped turn his side hustle into a scalable, impactful brand. And that

my friends is why he is on the show today. So Jamal, welcome.

Jamal Miller (03:14.428)
my gosh, AJ, that was such a cool intro. I am super excited to be here. Much love to you and Rory for all that you’re doing. This podcast is game changing and so I’m super honored to be here.

AJ Vaden (03:24.782)
Oh my gosh, well I’m just so excited for this interview and selfishly, I just wanna know all of this stuff. And so if I have a big desire to hear it, I know that a lot of our listeners do too. So here’s where I wanna start, because I literally have like 36 questions lined up on my sheet and I know we’re not gonna get to 36 questions today. But I really want our audience to know you a little bit. And so I’d love to just help everyone.

get to know you, like what’s your background, like how did you get to the point of food stamps, how did you all of a sudden get to this multi-million dollar business in seven years, like how did this all happen?

Jamal Miller (04:02.6)
Yeah, you I would say my story definitely is a story of…

Where you start is not where you finish And so where you will end up and I think for many people like you said when you first started You know you may be in a transition you may be trying to pivot you may be trying to get out of your nine-to-five and come to entrepreneurship Or maybe you are currently in a brand or you’re branding yourself as something that you’re like I don’t want to do this for a little long haul How do I see how do I pivot and keep going will I make it will I make it through it? Will I be successful again? You know I think it was miles more that says the most the biggest challenge to success

is having to overcome your last success, right? I think that’s the big thing that we’re all constantly looking at the last good thing we did, cannot do it again. And so that’s been our story.

That’s been our journey. Where we started or where I would begin, you know, I definitely would say I am an accidental entrepreneur. This was not a part of the plan. This is not what I had in store. I’m sure for many of you watching or listening, more than likely entrepreneurship was not something you saw yourself doing. And I would say we are accidental entrepreneurs.

It was about 12, 13 years ago. I was in Bible college, headed towards full time ministry, got my degree in theology. And I believe with all of me that the life that I was called to live ever since being a 16 year old that got just met by the love of God, the power of God met me in my bedroom. I did not grow up in a Christian home, but I felt I met God so early. And then in high school, I was a part of a Bible study that I helped create with a friend of mine.

Jamal Miller (05:38.688)
and for within two years, we were able to see 300 of our peers come to know Christ in those two years. And for me, it was like, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to help people meet the real Jesus. And I thought that was going to be in a church, right? I think most people think if you got a good preaching voice and you look good and you know how to stand in front of people, become a pastor, right? It was like, I fit the mold, right? And I was like, okay, I’m going be a pastor. guess that’s what it’s called. I guess that’s the career calling on my

And so I went to Bible college. Where do I go to get trained to be a pastor? I went to Bible college got my degree in theology and I thought this was it my pinnacle my You know height of success will be pastoring planning a church and pastoring thousands of people and I accepted at that point AJ I said hey as long as I’m in the middle of God’s will

and I’m making $40,000 for the rest of my life. As long as I’m doing what God is calling me to do, I am OK. Like I accepted a life of mediocrity in terms of finance and income in order to fulfill the call of God. But AJ, I’m grateful that God had other plans for me. so because, we ended up once I graduated Bible College, I.

moved to Chicago, Illinois. I was in Dallas at the time, moved to Chicago as a single man. At the time, you know, I was part of a church plant there in Chicago. And I remember within three months of being, you know, at this church, I was the first staff member. I was the youth pastor. That’s kind of where most guys start when they’re trying to get their, go in ministry. I was a youth pastor and I remember, you know, one day just coming home and my apartment was super quiet. And I was like, God,

this road is gonna be real lonely without my wife. You know, where is she? All right, I thought I would meet her in college, didn’t meet her there. I’ve been here for six months. Good Lord, I need you to show up because I am tired of being single. I’m tired of being alone. I’ve done everything I’ve known to do. Lord, where’s my wife? And AJ, the Lord said this to me. said, Jamal, you’re so focused on getting married. You have no idea what it takes to stay married.

AJ Vaden (07:46.158)
Mmmmm

Jamal Miller (07:47.022)
And I grew up in a home, my parents are still married, but they would not be an example of a happy, thriving marriage that I would want to say, hey, that’s exactly what I want when I grow up. And the Lord was right. And I said, well, God teach me how to be a successfully married man.

And for two years, I read marriage books. I went to marriage conferences. I adopted marriage mentors as a single man. I began to live like a married man and it changed everything for me. And eventually I ended up meeting Natasha on Facebook and I saw her post one day on Facebook and I had no idea who she was. This is the time whenever you actually knew everyone and you’re on your Facebook feed. And I said, man, how do I not know who this girl is? And so I ended up sending her a DM.

I had a lot of courage that day. And so yes, AJ, I slid in the DM. All right. And so.

in the DMs and she actually responded back. And so we started communicating back and forth. Mind you, complete stranger. I don’t even know at this point how we were on each other’s Facebook friends, no clue. And I ended up learning that she was in California and we just started chatting. It took about six months until one day my pastor comes to me and he’s like, hey, what’s going on with your love life? I’m like, man, what love life? I ain’t got no love life.

He’s like, so is there any potentials or anything? I said, man, no, there’s not. And he was like, well, what’s interesting is my wife, his wife, know, my pastor’s wife had a dream that I was gonna meet my wife in an unconventional way, right? And so he’s like, so is there, are you sure there’s no one that you were meeting or you’ve met? And I’m like, and soon as he said that, I’m like, well.

Jamal Miller (09:33.246)
There’s this girl that I met on Facebook. was like, nothing’s happened. Like we just been messaging back and forth. I’m like, but I mean, you know, she’s a really nice girl. And so he’s like, come over. He’s like, come over to the house. And I’m like, okay. So I go over to the house that night and I’m over at his house and he’s like, okay, so tell us what about this girl. And I’m like, well, I mean, I don’t know much. She lives in California. Da da da da da. And he’s like, well, show us a picture of her. And I’m like, okay. So I show him a picture on Facebook. He’s like, Jamal.

She’s gorgeous. What are you waiting for? Like what’s going on? And I’m like, okay, so here’s the deal. I was like, this girl is a complete stranger. She lives all the way in California. He’s like, what’s the real problem? I’m like, okay, let’s talk about it. The reality is I am five six. How am I supposed to find out about how tall this girl is and she’s on the internet? I said, what if she’s taller than me? This is a real moment.

AJ Vaden (10:05.834)
you

AJ Vaden (10:28.02)
my gosh

Jamal Miller (10:29.318)
And he’s like, are you serious? So he like calls his wife and he’s like, hey, come here. We found Jamal’s wife. And so like, and so she goes through every photo of her on Facebook to gauge her height. And she’s like, yeah, Jamal, she’s not taller than you. If anything, she’s right at your height. Right. And so she and he’s like, message her tonight.

AJ Vaden (10:35.534)
you

Jamal Miller (10:48.092)
And I’m like, okay, so I get home and I like draw up the best message I can. Hey, Natasha, it’s Jamal again. I know we haven’t chatted in a while, but I just wanted to tell you the time that we have chatted, it’s been really amazing. And I just got out came from my pastor’s house and we just had a conversation about you. And I got his permission to ask if we could get to know each other better. And I would love to know if you’re interested in that. And AJ that.

AJ Vaden (11:10.063)
my gosh, that’s the best story! I love this!

Jamal Miller (11:13.692)
And the rest is history, you know, so she meshes back and it all just, you know, there’s a lot more to the story, but where our business comes into play, you’d be wondering, okay, how did this work towards business? So once we did get married, you know, we put our story on YouTube because so many of our friends and family had no clue how we met. So it wasn’t even about branding ourselves or reaching an audience. Y’all, we were just literally just like, what’s the best way to create a video so we can send it to friends and family so they know the story.

Rory & AJ Vaden (11:33.215)
I’m out.

Rory & AJ Vaden (11:42.222)
Mm.

Jamal Miller (11:42.546)
So the night of our engagement, we filmed the story at my house and we called the Facebook love story.

put it on YouTube, send it to our friends and family. We go on our honeymoon. We come back from our honeymoon and the video is over 40,000 views. It was crazy. And we are seeing all these comments and people are just like engaging with the story. I can’t believe it happened for you guys. my God, this is so incredible. But there was one comment that said, Hey, is this real? Are y’all really married? And I told Natasha, I’m like, hey, like people are really hungry for relationship knowledge.

And we need to be a fresh inspiration to these people. This was not a business idea. It was just simply a passion play. And from there, we started our blog, Married and Young, about three months into marriage.

AJ Vaden (12:30.61)
Wow. You know what, out of everything you said, other than for everyone who’s listening, there’s still hope for you on Facebook, right? So that’s why I’m keeping it away. But what hits me the most out of everything you said is something that I feel like entrepreneurs forget, and it’s that the power hangs in the story. And I think at some point we get so caught up into the information.

Jamal Miller (12:38.41)
Hahaha!

Jamal Miller (12:51.4)
Yes.

Jamal Miller (12:58.526)
Yep.

AJ Vaden (12:58.966)
or the strategy or the insights or tips, tactics, you know, all of that, that we forget that no, like what people hang on, what they become involved in is the story.

Jamal Miller (13:14.761)
Yes, know 100 % AJ and you’re spot on because we ended up taking that story and turning it into our first seven figure brand, The One University and and how we ended up on food stamps was trying to build this business, you know.

time we, you know, when we first started Married and Young, it was just a blog, you know, and then a friend of mine saw that we had started the blog and we was doing really well, but I had no background in business, never sat in one marketing class, nothing at all for me. It was full-time industry, becoming a pastor. That was my tunnel vision.

So a friend of mine comes and he says, Hey Jamal, I saw you started his blog. How’s it going? I said, man, it’s going great. We’re getting about 40,000 page views a month. He’s like 40,000 visitors a month. I’m like, yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Like we were just doing everything right. And he’s like, are you paying for advertising or ads? I’m like, what is that? No, we’re just posting our content on Facebook and people are, they’re going to the website. He’s like, Jamal, you can be rich. And I was like, how did you get rich from blogging? Straight, I just, once again, super green.

So he says, Hey man, I’m gonna sit you down. I’ve gone from now being a minister to now I’m a personal brand online brand consultant. Never heard of anything like it before in my life. So he sits me down and he walks me through how to build an online business. And I will tell you in that moment, some, a light bulb went off that I was like, Oh my goodness, this may be a way to change the world outside of the local church. And it was like, I just immediately felt the Holy spirit just

Rory & AJ Vaden (14:42.199)
and

Jamal Miller (14:47.572)
that wind of peace to proceed. we, you know, so I said, well, man, where do I start? He’s like, you gotta, you gotta make a product. And I’m like, okay, make a product. What do I make? He’s like, write a book. So like, would not tell anybody right now. The first thing to do is write a book, right? But that’s what he literally said, write a book. And I was like, okay, I wrote my first book in 90 days, knocked it out, right? And knocked out the book. I thought we were about to be rich.

I’m like, okay, we’ve got 40,000 people coming to our website a month. I’m like, okay, I can expect 39,000 of these people, okay, are in love with us.

There’s probably a thousand of them that just don’t like us. There’s a thousand of them out of the 40. This is my math, right? Entrepreneur math. I’m like, there’s probably about a good thousand of them that are like, yeah, we don’t really want to deal with this guy. So I’m like, okay, let’s go back to the 39,000 that love us. Okay. 39,000 times 20. Okay. I told the times I said, listen, babe, we about to be rich, girl. We got to launch this book. All our problems about to go away.

AJ Vaden (15:40.142)
All

AJ Vaden (15:49.998)
You know what, I wish that was true math. I wish that was real math, Jamal.

Jamal Miller (15:55.572)
So we launched the book and I, the day before we launched it, I bought Natasha a brand new car to celebrate. Like this is so scary. I said, listen, I am no longer Jamal Miller. Okay. I am Dr. Jamal Miller. I need y’all to go ahead and change the name in the books because I got a book out. So we launched the book and the book literally made a thousand dollars. Wake up call. And my God, you talk about disappointment.

AJ Vaden (16:02.921)
no!

AJ Vaden (16:21.089)
yeah.

Jamal Miller (16:24.42)
But in the middle of disappointment, I saw a glimmer of light. I said, OK, this did not make the amount of money I thought it was going to make. But I looked at Natasha and I said, but Bay, look at what we just did. We literally just had a life experience that we put into a book. And we just made money. Yeah, it didn’t make the amount of money we want to make. I’m like, but if this is true and I can just figure out how to sell to more people.

we will never be broke a day in our life. And that was it for me. And I just said, I just gotta get better. The reality is, is I just suck at this. You know, like I’m just not good. Like.

AJ Vaden (17:03.95)
But at least you knew that. That self-awareness is always the first step, right? And I think that’s so, I think that’s, you know what I love about this and what I think, I want everyone who’s listening to hear this, is that you had an aha moment of two things that I think a lot of people in this space who are trying to become an expert or who are an expert and they’re trying to become more well-known. They have two things that they have not admitted to themselves.

Number one, I’m not good at this and I need help. Number two, I have to learn how to sell.

Those are two things that are required to be successful at anything in life. So I want to pause here and I want to talk about, so what did you do? Like, how did you go from, okay, I see the light, I know I’m not good, I know I need to figure out how to sell this stuff. How did you go from that to where you are today?

Jamal Miller (17:40.916)
Boom. Boom.

Jamal Miller (17:48.094)
period.

Jamal Miller (17:58.28)
Yep. That’s up. Yep.

Jamal Miller (18:06.494)
Well, first off, I quit, you know, I think, okay, I’m like, okay, I need to get a real job. This is being honest, right? I, know, the Bible talks about hope deferred makes the heart sick, you know, and when you put your hope into something and you believe in something and it doesn’t go the way you thought you have to, which is also another scripture, guard your heart for out of it flows a wellspring of life. Like you’ve got to guard your heart. And that disappointment set into my heart and

AJ Vaden (18:17.07)
Mmm.

Jamal Miller (18:34.1)
And it made my heart sick. And I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I need to get a real job. So I ended up quitting the online business, stopping the blog. And I went and got a real job. got my first. At the time I went to my pastor and I said, hey, can you increase me in my salary? And he’s like, hey, at the time we just can’t do it. So I ended up applying at another church, got a full time salary at another church, move my family. Well, it just me and Natasha. Move me and Natasha from Chicago to another city. And I get there.

And I realized, my goodness, this was, am, and you may think, how are you doing this Jamal in ministry? But the reality, here’s what I did. I chased money over purpose. And I think many of us do this all the time. And I’m not talking about security. All right. I think security is different than you got to, you got to secure yourself. So whatever it is, make the money you need to make. The reality was we were secure.

AJ Vaden (19:16.046)
Mmm.

Jamal Miller (19:30.64)
in Chicago, we just weren’t overflowing. We weren’t living in abundance. It wasn’t more than enough. And I’m like, I need more than enough. I need a salary that pays me what I’m worth and all those things in my church can’t. So let me go find a place that can. And so I sought satisfaction in money and not in purpose. And what I did was move to this new city, take this church on, and I was completely unhappy. Making good money, secure, but unhappy.

AJ Vaden (19:39.862)
I’m out of

Jamal Miller (20:00.892)
And it was the thing and here’s the thought and I think the question is, is what happens when we get the thing that we’ve always desired and it’s not what we actually want. And this is the stuff that I think you have to understand about how God has fashioned us is that our hearts are things that, and this is why I would say be careful following your heart. You need to lead your heart because a lot of times we follow our heart, but our heart is not fully

Connected to the heart of God because there are some flesh still in that heart There are some things in that heart some desires some selfishness You know some things in there that you cannot get out an only person that can deal with that is the Holy Spirit is God and I’m so grateful that God used this moment to draw those things out of my heart and he did use it for my good because once I got there I said this is the worst place ever I don’t want this anymore and I thought I wanted it, but I don’t and I said, okay God, how do I get out of here?

And I wish I could tell y’all the moment that we left that church that everything got better. No, it got worse. We left the church. We moved back to Chicago. I thought I had a job lined up. The job that was lined up when we got back to Chicago fell through. And this is when I looked at Natasha and I said, hey, babe, you are six months pregnant. I am driving Uber to make ends meet. We need help. And that’s whenever we had to go apply for food stamps. And I remember the first time us buying groceries with food stamps, Natasha’s like, babe,

We don’t look like we’re on food stamps. said, we may not look like we’re on food stamps, but baby, we own food stamps. All right, well, let’s get this chicken. Let’s get this steak and let’s get up out of here and go eat, you know? And it was a, it was a very humbling season. and when in that, in that moment, what I would say was, yeah, it was like, I’ve stopped the whole playing around with purpose and Jamal it’s time to bet on you again. So that’s when we picked up the online business again. And I said, okay, what do we know how to do that we can do quick?

And the thing that we came to mind was hosting an online conference. And so we hosted an online conference. And in that moment, when we did online conference, it made about thirteen thousand dollars. Right. And it was just enough to kind of like give us a little cushion, you know, into our next thing. But what ended up happening in that whole spin of time between the food stamps, picking the online business back up because before it was Plan B. Now it has to become Plan A. We pick it back up. We start trying to nurture it again.

Jamal Miller (22:27.444)
And here’s what ended up happening. Money became the control in our home. And the Bible talks about this. The Bible says that you can only serve two gods. You cannot serve both God and mammon. And mammon is the god of money. And I will tell you in our home, when we had money in the bank account, me and Natasha were happy. When there was no money in the bank account, we’re fighting, we’re arguing, we’re mad, we’re anxious, we’re, you know, money was the temperature.

the thermostat, I’m sorry, of how we felt about ourselves and the season of our life. And one day we’re at church. This is when things broke. We’re at church and the pastor begins to speak about the spirit of mammon. as you know, how you’re in church and you’re just hearing a message and you’re like, God. And he begins to talk about the spirit of mammon. And I believe there are some of you in this room right now. And I’m very careful. I know a lot of pastors, a lot of churches
AJ Vaden (23:13.502)
yeah.

Jamal Miller (23:22.088)
They can use money to manipulate and things like that. But in that moment, I could not shake it. I’m like, yeah, this ain’t a manipulative moment. Like, this is me. He is speaking to me because Mammon is running our life right now. And I said, Lord, how do I get you back in the driver’s seat of our finances? And for us, the first thing that came to my mind was just to sow a crazy seed. Just Jamal, just sow a seed and just make this like get put it on the altar.

and just give God your best. Right. And at the time, this is me just following Holy Spirit. I called Natasha and I’m like, babe, we need to sow a seed and I want to give something crazy, something radical. And at the time we had never given a thousand dollars. It was just just the number that came to my mind, my heart. I’m like, hey, I want to give a thousand. She’s like, babe, are you sure? And she said, I said, babe, I think we need to do it. I want to trust God and we get the money together. And this is what we prayed. I said, God,

I’m not sowing this thousand dollars for a in the mail. I’m not sowing this thousand dollars for a promotion at work. I’m not sowing this for you to be a genie and magically make all our money problems go away. I’m sowing this thousand dollars so that you can give me and Natasha the clarity that we need for the future and purpose that you have for us in this time. Clear my heart up.

from chasing money and help me align myself with chasing purpose again. So we sow that thousand dollar seed on that prayer. And it was probably maybe a month later that we were on a webinar. And on the webinar, are, because at the time we were all over the place in our business doing all whatever we could do to make money. We’re on this webinar and one of the people just says, and I go into a rant, you know, just talking and I’m like, yeah guys.

I’m so tired of y’all, you know, trying to keep figuring out how to find the one. You need to learn how to become the one. And when we said this thing, become the one, the chat just goes crazy. And I look at it I’m like, well, they’re like, we need to learn more about that. How do we become the one? How do we become the one? And I said, Natasha, I’m like, babe, there’s something on this become the one thing. And that was our breakthrough. And we ended up getting an idea for a membership.

AJ Vaden (25:42.348)
Okay.

Jamal Miller (25:46.942)
called The One University from that webinar. And we put our last bit of money to launching a membership to help singles become the one. And what I’ll tell you is our life has not been the same since launching The One University.

AJ Vaden (25:56.418)
Bye.

AJ Vaden (26:02.188)
You know, I think there’s something really important about this whole journey that you’ve gone through in this chasing purpose over money. And if you focus on purpose, if you focus on your divine calling, then money will come as a byproduct, right? But if you focus on the money, then it’s just work, work, work, work, work. also it’s never going to fulfill you, right? There’s that element of never enough-ness.

Jamal Miller (26:20.852)
You’re right.

AJ Vaden (26:31.158)
And so what I would love to hear from, and I think you said once, like don’t chase money, right? Chase purpose. How do you do that? Tactically speaking, like for the person who’s listening, who’s like, that’s great Jamal, I’m so glad you had all these breakthroughs and it’s all worked out. And cause I think what I hear so often is I think there’s a, an era of comparison. and I hear so many people in the brain builders group communities, like, well, it seems like memberships are the thing to do.

Jamal Miller (26:41.192)
Yeah.

Jamal Miller (26:45.844)
I know.

AJ Vaden (27:00.236)
Or it seems like one-on-one coaching is the thing to do. Or what I hear a lot of people say is, well, I don’t want to be trading time for money. I always ask, why not? And they’re like, well, I want to make money while asleep. And I’m like, who does that? Introduce me to these people. All they do is sleep and make money. I would like to meet them. So I would be curious to hear your thoughts, because you’ve been on both sides, right?

Jamal Miller (27:22.888)
Please, please.

Jamal Miller (27:27.922)
Yes.

AJ Vaden (27:29.102)
How do you reconcile those things to go, no, no, no, I’m just, I’m gonna do this thing that I feel called to do and also figure out a path of how do you turn this passion into something that can fulfill your needs and help you thrive?

Jamal Miller (27:49.3)
Absolutely. Such a great question. think it comes back down to understanding what purpose is. And I think when I say chase purpose, right, you may think I’m saying chase purpose, but I’m actually not. And let me explain in the Bible, the Bible says in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That’s what he did. But you must ask yourself, why did he do it? Well, if you keep reading, it goes on to say the earth was without void, which means that the earth was completely black, completely dark.

AJ Vaden (27:53.934)
Mm.

Jamal Miller (28:18.696)
God saw a problem, right? And when he said the earth was out void, he’s like, that’s a problem. I don’t like this place that’s black, that’s dark. This place needs life. This place needs me to come in and create something. And that’s when he took seven days to create the world that we are now living in today. God saw a problem.

And out of that problem, he found his purpose, which was to create the heavens and the earth in the world that we have today. And I think if you are going to chase purpose, the idea here is to not just chase purpose in itself, it’s to actually find a problem. And when you find a problem, my friend, you have found your purpose. Now, there are things I have a framework called the circle of purpose, you that I created to help people understand how do I

turn my purpose into a legitimate, viable, profitable business? Well, inside of purpose, number one is a problem, right? But then once you identify the problem, you must ask yourself a few questions. Number two, all right?

are there people who actually are struggling with this problem, right? Are there people who need this problem? Are there people who also have a connection to this being a problem that they’re facing? And who are those people? What are they? What’s their age? What’s their demographic? What’s their background? What’s their experience? And we’ve all said it, personal branding 101, the best person to serve is who you were three to four years ago. Like that’s easy, right? But then the next question you must ask yourself is, do I have proficiency? Do I have the skills, the abilities?

And I would even go as far as to that, because I didn’t have none of that, y’all. I didn’t have the skills. I didn’t have the abilities. My proficiency was a story. So when you look at the problem that we saw was, how you make, Jamal, what’s your circular purpose for this first brand? Well, the problem that we saw, number one, was singles struggling to get married. That was it. We recognized that there were singles that were struggling to get married. And that was the problem. Who were the people? Well, they were 30 to 40-year-old singles.

Jamal Miller (30:17.278)
that were either on their second marriage or they went through a traumatic relationship, a traumatic dating relationship that scarred them about marriage and they were having a hard time having successful relationships. All right, proficiency. Well, the next thing that we also saw was that they were having a hard time meeting people at their churches. Well, guess what? Our story was we didn’t meet at our church, we met online. So how do we help people now meet people in a digital way, right? That becomes…

That was our proficiency, our story of here’s how we did it. And now we took all of that and we packaged it up into a product that we could help people to get this problem solved in their life. And my friend, that framework, what I just gave you is a circle of purpose because what we just did was we took something that started off as a problem that we saw and we turned it into a viable, passion-driven, purpose-centered business.

AJ Vaden (31:11.129)
And I have rather successful one at that. And I think that’s a testament to it’s like when you, and I love what you said and that, know, ironically that’s so interconnected to what we call the brain positioning statement at Brain Builders Group. It’s like, what problem do you solve? What’s the call list of that problem? What’s your unique way of solving that problem? And ultimately, who do you solve it for and how do you make money solving it? Right? But it’s all problem centered, but

Jamal Miller (31:13.204)
Yep.

Jamal Miller (31:25.492)
Mm hmm. Yep.

AJ Vaden (31:37.42)
The goodness in all of that is like, if what you do really works, people talk about it. It spreads, right? It grows because it works. And that’s where the money comes. It’s like you solve a problem and you do it so well that it changes someone’s life. And when you do that, they go tell everyone they know.

Jamal Miller (31:43.39)
That’s it. It’s bright. Yes. Yes, it works. Yes.

Jamal Miller (31:54.612)
I’m on. Absolutely.

Jamal Miller (32:00.648)
Yep. And I think the piece that we have to be careful with is thinking that whatever we’re doing right now is what we’ll do forever. I think a lot of people think, if I start doing this, then I got to do this forever. What if I change my mind? What if I don’t lose passion here? Guys, and I am the testimony. We did that business, the one university for five years. It went from, you know, a brand new, the one university membership, right? And we learned how to do grow our membership. We grew up to four thousand via.

AJ Vaden (32:07.63)
Mmm, that’s good.

Jamal Miller (32:29.896)
product launches, which we’re talking about that. All right. So we got it to about 1.2 million. All right. And we are five years in with this business and there’s a whole lot of stuff that happens. Success ruined me and my wife. You know, we had to really remarry each other. Once we hit seven figures, you know, I lost my identity. She lost hers. Remember beginning of the story. I thought I was going to be a pastor. So now five years later, we’re seven figure business owners. And I’m like, what the heck is life? You know, what’s going on? And we had our marriage took a major hit.

AJ Vaden (32:30.477)
Amazing.

Jamal Miller (32:58.6)
But within that time frame, once we remarried each other, and it’s a real story, we really had to rededicate, like we are committed to the future of one another. And once we did that, we had to ask ourselves, do we want to serve singles forever? Is this, you know, we’re growing in marriage. We’re now five years, you know, at that point, we’re primarily married seven, eight years. I’m saying, babe, I don’t want to this forever. And she’s like, I don’t want to do this forever either. And I’m like, OK, well, we got to figure out what’s next. And I wish I could tell you that it was easy.

to figure out what was next. It was really hard, but we did it and we are in our next. And it took many years of us just kind of testing, experimenting with different things in order to figure out the next thing. And the beautiful part is at the end of the day, everything we’ve tested and experimented with, there was still a common thread of helping to transform people from the inside out. It was just us deciding on how we wanted to do it. And I wanna give you permission, whoever’s watching and listening.

to go experiment, test things out, try things out. Don’t feel like you’ve got to nail it the first time. We did nail it the first time, but my friend, we did not nail it the second, third, fourth time, okay? Like, I’m grateful we nailed it first, because that did give us some good cushion to experiment and fail. But if whatever you’re doing and you don’t like it, that’s okay. Try something else, do something else. But just remember your why. Make sure you, before you go experiment,

that you know what your why is. For us, no matter what I do, I want to transform people. I got to be in the middle of somehow, some way helping people to become a better version of themselves. I don’t care if it’s going to through helping somebody to learn how to be a speaker or launching a course or launching whatever we’re helping people do. I got to make sure that somehow I’m helping them become a better version of themselves that they can look like Jesus at the end of this. That was my common thread. So my encouragement would be find your why and just make sure that you center around that why with whatever you’re testing and experimenting with.

And so yeah, AJ, for us, we did the singles business for about five years. We grew the heck out of it, know, 4,000 members, 200,000 plus email lists, multiple launches a year. But then we lost passion for it. did. And so right now we’re in the process of actually partnering with someone else to hand that off to them. So we’re in that process now. But we, you know, took some soul searching, some journeying, and we try like two different businesses within like a three year run.

Jamal Miller (35:19.744)
And where we’ve landed today is on, we’ve built a new program called Call Coach Institute. And it is helping to certify life coaches who are infused what we call a spirit led coaching model where we’re helping life coaches, disciple people in their coaching sessions as life coaches. And we just completed a $3 million launch. It’s been incredible, fun ride. But once again, like I said, it wasn’t easy to get here.

AJ Vaden (35:47.608)
You know, I’d love to go back to two things that you said, because I think there’s so many interesting components of this. And although on the surface they could seem all seemingly disconnected, you you pointed out it’s like, but they’re not, because it’s all centered around personal transformation from the inside out. It was from singledness to coupledness. It was from where you were to who you were created to be. But there’s this transformation component. And if you look below the surface,

Jamal Miller (36:15.4)
Yes.

AJ Vaden (36:17.55)
So I want to come back to that but the first thing you said that I think we kind of skimmed over and I want to want to double back on this is success really really hurt you and so what did that look like and I think it would be good to also talk about like for everyone who’s listening who is successful who has been successful but yet They’re not happy and they’re not loving life and life isn’t going so well right now

Jamal Miller (36:43.444)
Yeah.

AJ Vaden (36:46.562)
Like what are some of the things that you noticed where money had kind of taken over or success had taken over and how did y’all catch that? What did you do to rectify that? Because I think there’s a lot of people that I know personally in my business life and my personal life that materialistically speaking, they got it all. They’ve sold businesses, they have the house, the cars, the trips, the travel, the things, and they are not happy.

Jamal Miller (37:07.572)
Got it all.

Jamal Miller (37:17.192)
Yeah. Yep, we experience both sides, right? I think it’s hard to be broke and it’s hard to be rich. You choose your heart. If you choose the heart of being rich, just know that here’s the reality. Money only solves money problems. And I think that’s what you are getting at, right? Money only solves money problems. And so once you do have money and that problem is solved,

AJ Vaden (37:17.389)
at all.

AJ Vaden (37:23.148)
Hmm. Hmph. That’s right.

Jamal Miller (37:40.46)
Now you have to realize that there are a lot of other problems in your life, right? Your problem with yourself, problem with friends, problem with relationships, things that money can’t buy. And that’s what we ran into. And it was a wake-up call. When I say success ruined us, it’s because it revealed that that’s all that we were going after. It revealed that that was all that. And it also revealed that we had a definition of success that wasn’t sustainable.

Right? And I think that’s the other part. If you’re going to.

be successful, you’ve got to understand that you don’t own success. Success is rented, and I think many of you heard this quote, success is rented and rent is due every single day. So what does that mean for me? What that means is that every point of success, I’ve got to reevaluate. What does success for me mean now? Right? And I think that was the thing that we just were failing to do. Some of the fundamental things we were failing to do at every new level of success, which was come back and reevaluate. All right, what do we want out of our life?

now and for me and Natasha, we got to a place where our marriage just became a second thought. It became, we were actually using our marriage for success versus actually like.

being married, like, because we were in the marriage business. So we were literally using our story, using each other, using it. So we were drawing from the marriage versus feeding the marriage. And we kept drawing from it, drawing from it, drawing from it. And you’ve got to realize your marriage is like a third person. You you’ve got your wife, you’ve got yourself, and you’ve got your marriage. And you’ve got to treat that.

AJ Vaden (38:57.218)
man.

AJ Vaden (39:06.828)
Mmm.

Jamal Miller (39:17.672)
thing with dignity and respect. And for us, we stopped doing that. We were not treating our marriage like a person. We were treating it like it was just, will always be there. It will always be whatever it is. And that’s when you end up looking at each other and realizing, I don’t know you. I don’t even know if I like you right now. And I don’t know if we are what we thought we were going to be at this point in our juncture. And most people at that point just decide to change and remarry and get a divorce. But what I told Natasha, I said, I said, no, we, I,

AJ Vaden (39:18.466)
good.

Jamal Miller (39:46.622)
That’s not for us. Like we need to buckle down and we need to recommit because when I said in my vows to you, I said yes to your past, your present and your future. And that’s when we had to remarry one another. So yeah, was a, was, I think I kind of gave a good bit there, but when I say success ruined us, what I mean by it is that it revealed who we really were and we had to make a decision. I don’t like this person that I’m being and it’s time to make a change.

AJ Vaden (40:13.198)
You

No, I think that’s really good. And I love that concept of you have to reevaluate and redefine success at every new level of success. And I don’t think people do that. I think they do it here, they do it there, but it’s like, once you’ve reached this, got to reevaluate, reset it, redefine it. I think that’s really good advice for all of us to make sure that keeping the main thing the main thing, and the main thing ain’t the money, right? It’s not the success.

Jamal Miller (40:23.474)
at every level. Yes. Now.

I did just keep calling it.

Jamal Miller (40:42.992)
No. No.

Rory & AJ Vaden (40:45.206)
I love that. Now you have transitioned. You guys have been so good at so many things that you guys have done. Before we wrap up and go offline, I have like a real quick list of questions that I would really love for our audience to hear from you. So here’s the first thing that I would love for everyone to hear from you is what’s your number one piece of advice or at least top one or two that you would give to the entrepreneur who feels stuck at their current level?

Jamal Miller (41:00.798)
to a fire.

Rory & AJ Vaden (41:14.272)
and who also wants to go faster, right? Because everyone wants to go faster, but they don’t know what to do.

Jamal Miller (41:21.268)
So I think most entrepreneurs that feel stuck, the first thing they think is, what am I doing wrong? Or what should I be doing next? And I will tell you that’s the wrong way to think. It’s who should I be talking to? All right, don’t go to what, go to who.

Rory & AJ Vaden (41:32.142)
you

Jamal Miller (41:34.578)
because if you’re asking yourself what you should be doing, you’re asking yourself what, what, you don’t know. So stop wasting time trying to figure out what to do and go do whatever you got to do to find the right who to talk to. Because I can tell you my journey of success at every level. I can point back to a person that catapulted me to my next level. I can point back to a coach. I can point back to a mentor. I can point back to a specialist that was able to look right at my season, right at my problem and tell me exactly

me to do to get to the next level. And I’m telling you that to me has been my cheat code, my cheat code. And I also would say, be careful expecting one person to solve all your problems. is not, nobody is Jesus. Nobody can solve all your problems. So whenever you do link up to a coach, just know you need to already know what problem you need them to solve so that you can move on whenever they solve that problem and not hang on to them or think they’re going to be there forever for you or be the person forever, or they’re going to help all the parts of your business. What I found is that each coach come in my life came

Rory & AJ Vaden (42:05.398)
Mmm, that’s so good.

Jamal Miller (42:34.442)
in my life had a very unique specialty. And it was primarily the thing that was best for them, right? Whatever I saw that they were doing really well was the thing that I said, I want that. Why do you go to a coach that isn’t doing something well and expecting to help you with that, right? Don’t waste your time, waste your money. So I will tell you, if you want to get to the next level, it’s not about what to do. It’s about who should I be talking to?

Rory & AJ Vaden (42:50.239)
That’s good.

Rory & AJ Vaden (42:57.064)
That’s so good. I mean that is the power of, hey you don’t have to make the same mistakes. Go learn from the people who’ve made them who can help you expedite the process. Now you said something in there that I want you to double down on because you said, hey your job is to know the problem you have so you can go get the help you need. What if you don’t know the problem?

Jamal Miller (43:20.104)
That’s a good question. know, that’s a good one. You kind of got me stumped there because I would say, don’t know at any point in my business that I didn’t at least know, or if you don’t know the problem, I would probably say, well, what do you want?

Right? At least coming in and that’s another big one that a lot of entrepreneurs, don’t know what they want. it, is it, even if whatever you want is maybe the wrong thing, you know, at least coming to a coach or coming to someone and saying, Hey, here’s what I want. Right? You know, like for me in this season of my business, you know, I want, um,

Rory & AJ Vaden (43:53.325)
and

Jamal Miller (43:58.312)
It’s not autonomy. I kind of want to have something that is just not requiring 15, 20 people to run it, right? Like I have a business right now that has 15 employees that require that is required to run it. And I love it because I love having a team, but I also want to have something that just I can do with maybe one person and it just, I can be, I can still be that, I don’t know, on the ground entrepreneur that’s just like in the weeds and still I can get messy with it. And not all my team are looking at me like, why is Jamal doing that? Why is he doing this? Why are you doing that?

Rory & AJ Vaden (44:04.622)
Mm-hmm.

Rory & AJ Vaden (44:27.022)
You

Jamal Miller (44:28.166)
And that’s just, and that’s what I want. So I have an entrepreneur coach that’s in the same season where he’s pivoted from a $20 million business to a $2 million business with two team members. And I’m working with him to help me figure out how to do both. Well, how do I have a 20, know, 15, $20 million thing that I can be the founder CEO. And there’s a whole suite of leaders that runs it. And it keeps me sharp because once you become a high level leader like that, like you’re

Your operations is just different. And I’ll be honest, I don’t want to do that 100 % of the time. really, doesn’t give me that much life, but I do have this other idea that I would love to build into a one to $2 million thing. And I need to know how to manage and do both well. And so I want to find someone that is doing that. And so that, or has done it. And so that’s kind of where I’m at. That’s my desire. So at least if you don’t know what the problem is, at least be clear about what you want.

Rory & AJ Vaden (45:18.574)
That’s good. I love that. And it’s like, if you don’t know what the problem is, you at least have to know what you want. And sometimes that takes some serious time and reflection because people can’t help you if you can’t tell them what you need help with. Right? That’s the gist of it. Now, I love that you said something else too about growth and scale. I would love to also know it’s like, in your opinion, like how do you stay aligned with purpose while scaling?

Jamal Miller (45:27.683)
self-discovery.

Jamal Miller (45:47.282)
You know, we are going through that right now. And I just got done, I’m not sure if you’ve ever read the book by Cameron Harrell, Vivid Vision.

It’s a great book and we just, you know, put this into practice. Just every single brand that we build, we I take the time to go do a 15, 20 page vivid vision around it. And what that does is just forces me to think three to five years down the road of like, what is the thing? How is this brand tying back to the overall vision that the Lord has given us? And for me, the conviction that I have is that I know that we’ve been called to pastor the Internet. And I think that’s just comes right back down

to your why. And so as you grow in scale, I have to have clarity on what is the through line. As long as we’re pointing back, what is our North Star? It can’t be money because you’re going to always. But what is something that you will never, ever run out of being able to accomplish and do? And for us, when the Bible gave us the Great Commission to make disciples of all nations, that I take very serious. And that’s my why.

How do we make disciples of all nations? Because that is the thing that will forever be the problem that we are facing. More and more people looking like him. You may have a different one. Like within that big idea or that why, there are so many things that can break out of it that I can solve. And so that keeps me aligned. And so, but at the same time, I’m also still, I’m obsessed with my own limitations.

And I think you have to know yourself, right? I am obsessed with what are my limits and I’m obsessed with my own potential, you know? And so I think those are the things that kind of drive me as well. Like, can I do this? Can I go this far? Can I, you know, at what point will I not like it? You know, and those are the things, right? And so as long as it’s not impacting my marriage or my relationship with God, I go after it.

Rory & AJ Vaden (47:46.158)
Yeah, but I think that’s back to it’s like 15 to 20 pages. Ain’t no, you know, paragraph, y’all. Like if you think you’ve written yourself a couple of lines of what my vision is, that’s a whole different, that’s a whole nother level of do you really know? Right? Have you really dug deep? Is there real clarity versus, you know, there’s so many vision statement exercises. Oh, got my sentence. We’re good. Got it. But that’s, I love that of like, I mean, I’m just sitting here going like, where do I have 15 or even 10 or even five pages?

Jamal Miller (47:57.576)
Yeah. Do you really?

Rory & AJ Vaden (48:16.046)
of a detailed vision capturing what my purpose is and what the centered why is to keep me aligned. Because I think when you get that deep, it’s like that’s something to go back to again and again. I love that. Okay, last question because I promise I won’t keep you much longer. I told you I had like 36 questions over here. So here’s my last question.

Jamal Miller (48:23.646)
Amen.

Jamal Miller (48:33.714)
No, this is good. I’m having fun.

mean, just going back to the vision piece, without vision, people perish. Right?

Rory & AJ Vaden (48:43.374)
Well, yeah, and I love that. And I think it is one of those things that people don’t spend near enough time. Or if they do, they did it one time, right? One time. it’s like, no, I mean, you got to do that all the time, all the time. Somebody asked me because I’m my fourth year in the row. And I will admit it took me 36 years as a believing Christian.

Jamal Miller (48:53.426)
One time.

Rory & AJ Vaden (49:12.504)
to read the Bible in its entirety. What an embarrassing statement. But I’m on the fourth year in a row where I’m reading the Bible word for word, page to page, cover to cover, and somebody asked me, like, why do you keep reading the same thing again and again, like every year? And it’s like, because I have to read it every day to stay connected to it, right? Every day, it’s like.

Jamal Miller (49:14.654)
Wow, I love that. It’s okay, you did it. Come on.

Jamal Miller (49:35.092)
Every time. Come on. Every time you see something.

Rory & AJ Vaden (49:40.27)
you why do I say I love you to my husband every day? Right? And it’s like, why do I eat every day? Right? It’s like, I got to stay connected to my source. Right? And it’s like, same thing with your vision statement, like, or your goals or whatever. It’s like, when’s the last time you pulled that thing up and read it? Actually stayed connected to it. Like it’s a thing. It’s a living, breathing document. Okay. Next question. Actually, I’m going ask you three questions rapid fire, and you can answer them as quickly as you want. So,

Jamal Miller (49:53.844)
every day.

Jamal Miller (50:04.532)
Let’s go.

Rory & AJ Vaden (50:08.27)
investment you’ve ever made in your personal growth? What would you say it is?

Jamal Miller (50:15.146)
it was, was a mastermind. yeah, a $30,000 mastermind where the coach said, Hey, I’m gonna hold your hand to a million dollars. And I was on that call every single week until we got to a million dollars. And we did, and we haven’t made less than a million dollars since that mastermind. Now, not all masterminds are credit equal. So be careful. Don’t just go and run to any mastermind. Like here’s my, here’s my money. Jamal Miller said he made a million dollars after his. but I would say that was the best investment I ever made. when I fully betted on myself on an amount of money that absolutely seemed ludicrous at the time.

Rory & AJ Vaden (50:44.302)
I love that. One book that every purpose-driven entrepreneur should read.

Jamal Miller (50:51.412)
Man oh man oh man oh every purpose driven entrepreneur should read. Can I give two? I’ll give one that’s a spiritual and one that’s a business book. The spiritual book is Drawing Near to God by John Bevere. Best book on truly understanding intimacy and that God just wants you. You can bring him the money, bring him souls, bring him businesses, bring him all the

Rory & AJ Vaden (51:02.243)
Do it.

Jamal Miller (51:20.638)
things that you are going to do on this earth because you are a world changer. But I’m telling you, the thing that makes him most proud is you with nothing else. So drawing near taught me that. In terms of business, I’m looking through my deck right here. I would say the book that probably had the biggest impact on my business that every entrepreneur should read, my

Rory & AJ Vaden (51:28.533)
Mmm, I love that.

Jamal Miller (51:45.81)
Gosh, it is so hard to choose, but I am going to go with, my goodness, I know what it is. The Road Less Traveled. Do you know I’m talking about? I actually read it like once a month, but the name is, it’s like The Road Less Traveled, The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham. Keith Cunningham, yeah, he is the business coach for Tony Robbins and The Road Less Stupid. That book teaches you how to think.

Rory & AJ Vaden (51:56.802)
No.

Rory & AJ Vaden (52:06.294)
Yes.

Jamal Miller (52:13.81)
And if there’s anything that you need to learn how to do as an entrepreneur is to learn how to think. And so literally I have a thinking chair. I wish I could pull my camera over here. I bought my thinking chair because of that book. That’s what he said. He said, Hey, you need to get a chair that becomes your thinking chair. And every Sunday I do something that this is my framework, right? I believe prayer is getting the heart of God, but my think time is to get the mind of God. So when I get in my think chair, I say, God, we act like we’re in a boardroom.

Rory & AJ Vaden (52:19.662)
Yeah.

Rory & AJ Vaden (52:38.46)
and

Jamal Miller (52:42.332)
You are the CEO of my business. What are you thinking right now? How are you thinking about this? How are you thinking about that? And it’s not prayer. It’s me engaging God as the intelligent God that he is, that knows my future, knows the future of this world, help me align. Now I don’t get it right every single time because I’m human, but I do my very best to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, to get that think time, to get the mind of God into my mind so I can run my company accordingly. And so you need to have prayer time where it’s worship.

confessing, venting, crying, whatever you got to do to get the heart of God. But then you got your think time where you engage God in his mind. The role as stupid is what helped me to get that revelation.

Rory & AJ Vaden (53:20.664)
Mm.

Rory & AJ Vaden (53:25.972)
I love that. I spent four days at the four-day MBA with Keith Cunningham, and what I love about him is that he don’t sugarcoat it. Right? It’s a straightforward, clear path. And I love John Bevere and all the things. Those are great books. All right, last question. What does influential mean to you?

Jamal Miller (53:33.576)
No.

Jamal Miller (53:49.126)
Influential to me, I’m getting a picture before I got a word. Influential to me means ripple effect, ripple, right? Like it’s a ripple. And when I say a ripple, when you throw a rock in a water, it creates ripples. And I believe influence creates ripples. To where when you do one thing, and if you’re influential, it should create ripples. There should be impact that goes beyond you, from your books.

to your content that you create, to your social media, to the people you help, to the employees you hire, everything you do as an influencer, there should be ripples. It goes beyond you.

Rory & AJ Vaden (54:28.998)
Mmm, that’s a good word Jamal. That is so good. Y’all, this is the tip of the iceberg of what I would like to cover with Jamal, but that would be like a full half-day interview. And we ain’t got time for that today, unfortunately. We’re gonna have to come back and do part two and part three at some point. But y’all, I would just so encourage you to, after this episode, go follow Jamal and…

Jamal Miller (54:36.25)
No.

Yeah

Rory & AJ Vaden (54:54.61)
his beautiful wife, but I mean, there’s a couple of things that I’m gonna just, I’m gonna spread one. Go to jamalmiller.com, right? You can connect with him on all the socials from there, but that would be one place just to connect and also with Natasha. Where should people go to connect with Natasha?

Jamal Miller (55:11.432)
Yeah, so her Instagram is the best place. You can also, if you’re a woman who wants to kind of learn more about the brand that we’re building right now, you can go to calledwomen.com and we have a plethora of resources there. If you are a woman that, you know, wants to follow her, follow what she’s up to, go to her Instagram at Natasha Miller. yeah, those are, you know, and then as well, we have a YouTube channel called at called women where she has a bunch of podcasts and content that you can check out.

Rory & AJ Vaden (55:37.166)
We’ll have have Natasha on next. She’s in baby mode right now when she gets out, when she’s back in the land of the living. But then also, y’all, really awesome free resource. Jamal and Natasha have been so generous to give. So if y’all want to grab the seven-figure launch template, this is free. I want you to write this down. Go to profitnpurpose.com forward slash LLV.

Jamal Miller (55:39.004)
Yeah, that’ll be fun.

Rory & AJ Vaden (56:04.782)
Profitinpurpose.com forward slash LLV and just use the code brand, B-R-A-N-D at checkout. You get those for free. I will put those in the show notes. This has been a fantastic interview with so many insights and before we bounce, I just wanted to share with you, Jamal, these are the three things that I wrote down that I’m gonna go back and share with our company. gonna, I literally am gonna write these down and put them on sticky notes.

and put them in my office so if they meant something to me then maybe these will resonate with you guys who are listening. Number one, money only solves money problems. That’s so good, right? If you don’t have these like and highlighted excerpts you need to write these down Jamal. But that was the first one that really stuck out to me. The second one is that when you find a problem you can solve. You have found your purpose. Right?

Jamal Miller (56:58.58)
Come on, that’s simple.

Rory & AJ Vaden (57:00.3)
It’s so, so good. So, so good. And then the third one that I’m going to write down and actually start putting into practice is the re-evaluating success at every new level of success. And it’s like that didn’t happen one time. That happens all the time. And those are three things that I’m going to walk away of going, hey, like I’m going to put these into practice after this interview. This is going to make a difference in my life, my family, and my business. And so Jamal, thank you for your time today. Absolutely phenomenal.

Love this. I cannot wait to share it with our audience.

Jamal Miller (57:29.652)
I love it. Come on with thank you AJ. Thank you to you Roy for continuing to plow to helping entrepreneurs build their personal brands. I do believe that personal brand is the best investment you can make in today’s society. I believe you build your personal brand. We didn’t get into this, but I would say the biggest mistake that we made in building our business brands was not building our personal brands alongside them. And so please, as you guys are investing or in considering investing,

Rory & AJ Vaden (57:54.392)
Mmm.

Jamal Miller (57:58.44)
do the work you gotta do or whatever you gotta do to build your personal brand, your name. And there’s no one better in the industry that’s helping people do that than Rory and AJ. So jump in there, get the help you need so you can build your name into a cash money machine because that’s what happens when you build a good name. And so they’re the best at it. So thank you guys for doing the work that you’re doing. I love you guys. I’m so grateful for just the relationship that we have.

Rory & AJ Vaden (58:14.03)
You

Rory & AJ Vaden (58:21.494)
love that and thank you and listen to Jamal. Do what he says, do what he says, right? Build that personal brand, y’all. I love you guys. Thank you for sticking around all the way to the end of this awesome episode. Be sure to follow Jamal and we will catch you next time on the influential personal brand. See you later.

Ep 578: How to Monetize Niche Events and Publications with Remington Ramsey

Rory (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand Podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. Today
Rory (00:34):
We’re gonna have a really unique conversation about how to build community, and we’re gonna be talking to Remington Ramsey, who is the creative force behind Real Producers Magazine, which started as this sort of regional, uh, media production and has become sort of a nationwide phenomenon. And he is reaching very specific into the real estate industry, despite not having been, uh, been a realtor himself. And yet he has created this entire business. He is fostering this community and he’s doing it through a magazine. And so there are, over the years, there have been people who have done this really, really well. And it’s a very unique model that has some specific intricacies that I, I want to talk about and I want to hear the story because I think this could apply to all of you. Even if you never start a magazine or desire to.
Rory (01:32):
The, the concepts and the tactics around serving a community and how your personal brand grows as the community grows is super, super relevant. So in addition to that, he is the author of a book called Agent Allies. And Ton was referred to me by one of my dear friends, the late John Ruland. Uh, and that was how we got to know each other. And it was one of the last relationships that John introduced me to, uh, right before he died. And so Remington and I kind of took that and said, Hey, we should get to know each other a little bit if John thought this was good. Mm-hmm . And John was right. And it’s been an amazing, uh, journey to get to know Remington, to see what he’s got going on. He’s also doing live events, and we’re gonna talk about all the ways that he is supporting his community and how you can learn from him to do the same for yours. So Remington, welcome to the show, man.
Remington (02:24):
Man. Uh, two things, Rory. One, thank you. Uh, so three things. Uh, two, I need to work on my intros ’cause that’s just super powerful. Well done . And a third thing, I just flew back from Phoenix and I was thinking about you. I knew this, uh, show was coming up and I actively a, uh, avoided all escalators and elevators. You’ll be happy to know , uh, took the stairs every single time. So you should be proud of me.
Rory (02:48):
I am proud of you. I’m proud of you. The, the, the, the Take the Stairs movement lives on and lives strong . So, um, well, tell us a story about, you know, how did you get into this Real Producers magazine because you were not an agent mm-hmm . So how in the world did you start this? What exactly is it? How did it start? And just kind of tell us the story and then, and then after that we can dive into more of the mechanics of how it works and how you’re monetizing it. But like, I, I’m curious about how it all started.
Remington (03:23):
Well, you, you brought up our, uh, our, our buddy John Ruland, uh, rest in Peace, one of a kind dude. And, um, and Cutco, that’s where we met selling knives. And most people know that, uh, from selling knives to your parents and your grandparents, and then you quit. Mm-hmm . And that’s what most people do. John and I were two people that said, Hey, I think, I think we can make a, a few more dollars and pay for school. So John went the business gift route, and I found the closing gift route. Um, and essentially I was in the specialty division called Cutco Closing Gifts, where I was selling one realtor at a time. Because if you can sell realtor knives, they give out their gifts and, uh, when they run outta gifts, they buy more. So I was pretty pumped about that. Um, the challenge was I was brand new to the real estate world. I didn’t speak the language and I didn’t even own a house when I started. So I was very green and through trial and error over the course of like the first two years, I was just learning about all the different, uh, fastest of real estate and trying to grow my closing gift business at the same time. And what was crazy is I was, I was actually doing really well in terms of sales. I was growing the business. And just to be, just
Rory (04:39):
To be clear, when you say closing gift, you’re talking about the gift that the agent gives to their client, like in their new home, congratulations for buying a home. Here’s a set of knives, you know? Yeah. Hopefully you Thanks for doing business with me, that kind of thing.
Remington (04:53):
Exactly. They would engrave their name, uh, you know, Rory Vaden re max Cell phone, here’s your Knife. And the, the point of the whole thing was to brand and with a gift that they would use every single day so that they would remember their realtor. So it’s phenomenal real, uh, Cutco prides themselves as being the largest closing gift company in North America because there’s no one else who’s doing this. A second, second place is like gift bags and, and bottles of wine. So I loved it and I was doing really well and I felt like I was, uh, selling a bunch of knives and breaking records, but at the end of the year, I didn’t have a ton of money to show up for it. And it was because I was spending all of my money back into the business trying to figure out who the realtors were that could afford it, and then spending more money on marketing to gain those relationships. Got it. So that’s where it all started. That’s how I got into real estate. Um,
Rory (05:43):
So you were trying to figure out who the top realtors were going? If I could build a relationship with them and then they sell a whole bunch of homes, then I sell a bunch of knives, like in the wake.
Remington (05:53):
Yeah. Well, I mean, not only that, like if you look at Indy, there’s 10,000 realtors in Indianapolis. 1.8 million people, 10,000 of ’em have their real estate license, but half of ’em won’t sell a home this year. Uh, and it’s true across the nation, like that’s kind of real estate’s the largest trade organization in the world, but two outta three that train to be a realtor this year will not be here this next year. So like, essentially it’s a, it is a very high turnover rate. So as a vendor, that’s really frustrating because you spend all your time like taking these guys out to lunch ’cause they love free lunch. ’cause a lot of them can’t afford lunch. So I’d be out there on these free lunches spending my money and they’re not getting any knives ’cause they can’t afford ’em ’cause they’re not doing any closing. So that was an aha moment for me. And that’s really what birthed the idea of real producers.
Rory (06:38):
Mm-hmm . Um, gotcha. Okay. So, so then what, okay, so then what is the idea behind Real Producers? So that’s, that was your personal need was like, I’m trying to figure out who the top agents are. Yeah. So then what did you, what you start putting together a magazine for them?
Remington (07:00):
Well, the magazine came second. What came first was the events. So I was essentially going to all of these sales meetings and, uh, lunch and learns, bringing bagels and, uh, donuts and various bread products. ’cause that’s apparently what the realtors want. Mm-hmm . And not getting anywhere because the realtors that showed up to their sales meetings were the new ones that, you know, again, weren’t selling the homes. And then I would go to the bigger events where the awards banquets and the CE were, and I would spend like 500 bucks, a thousand bucks for a booth. And they would give me that card that says, Hey, stamp this so that everyone comes up to your booth. Well, what would happen was I’d be trying to sell to one realtor who wanted my knives and 10 other realtors would interrupt me saying, can you stamp this? Can you stamp this?
Remington (07:45):
And before you know it, they’re all in their CE and I’m just staring at all these vendors for hours because there’s no realtors at my booth. So frustrated and thinking there’s gotta be a better way. I created my first event, I called it Turkey time. I gave away eight turkeys and a carving set, and I sold more knives in that one event than I had the previous two weeks. I was like, oh, okay. I need to host my own events. And so that’s when I, you talked about the book, like I basically go into the journey of how like I created my own events that took out all the stuff that wasn’t working and sorted out the realtors that hadn’t actually become professionally. What I mean by that is they’re not good at it yet. And so they waste the vendor’s time and frustrate the industry because they might not even be here this time next year. And so the vendors are after the top realtors who have shown that they can do this year in and year out, and they take care of their vendor partners. So that’s what birthed the idea is like, I’m gonna do my own events and then we’re gonna create a magazine to be the face of it.
Rory (08:51):
Okay. So just to, to to double tap on the events for a second mm-hmm . So the idea was how do I create an event that is so valuable for my target audience that they show up for it and then I get to be the one there hosting the conversation? Like, is that effectively? Is that effectively it?
Remington (09:15):
Yeah. Instead of attending other people’s events where they don’t really have the same priorities of value that I would, that I would, I need to create my own events. JJ Pap Ison talks about this Build your cathedral concept and instead of going to everyone else’s, you build, uh, something that, uh, creates them wanting to come to you. And this doesn’t just have to be, you know, a salesman selling knives. You could do this with anything if you have the right value. But yeah, I created an event where we brought them to me and then any realtor who was already using me for my services also brought a friend. So now you can duplicate it, which I know is a principle you talk about.
Rory (09:54):
Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . So did you, were you selling tickets to this event or was
Remington (09:59):
It
Rory (09:59):
Free
Remington (09:59):
To come to
Rory (10:00):
No,
Remington (10:00):
It was free for the realtors and that was the other light bulb. This is kind of what led to us with the concept of the magazine because I got the party paid for by the vendors because they knew I would bring the value and get the right realtors in the room. So when the magazine came about, I, I basically sat down with 50 real estate professionals. Like I said, it was, I know it’s 2015 and print advertising is dead, like everyone says. Yeah.
Rory (10:22):
That’s what I want to get to is like, why, why in the world would you go into Print magazine? And yet here you are crushing it with this business because
Remington (10:30):
It would, it is never not gonna be cool to be on the cover of a magazine. Now here’s what’s, here’s what’s interesting. It’s 2025 as we’re recording this and print’s actually back. There’s a lot of, like Gary Vaynerchuk’s talking about how print mediums are back, niche products are back magazines are actually a big deal. I think what happened was social media and internet blew up and got so crowded that these niche products are cutting through the noise and people want to feel it again. They want to feel the paper books, they wanna feel the magazine. So right now, in this moment, magazines are a big deal. But in 10 years, again, when people are saying print is dead and magazines are dead, we’re still gonna thrive because it’s not about what, it’s not about print, it’s about what we’re printing. And we were printing things you could only find in that magazine. It was basically Facebook and print. It’d be like me putting Rory’s face on the cover of a magazine and only sending it to his family and his friends because you would open it because it’s Rory. And so that’s what’s happening with these communities, these real estate communities. The top realtors wanna see where they rank and their friends rank and they wanna see their name and face and print as much as possible.
Rory (11:36):
Ah, so there’s a ranking element is that there’s a ranking element to the magazine. Can you explain that?
Remington (11:42):
A hundred percent. So in Indianapolis, I’ll just give you an example. ’cause that was the first one. We only go to the top 500 realtors based on their volume. And they cannot buy it. They have to earn it. So in order to get the magazine, you have to be a top 500 realtor, be on a team of a top 500 realtor, and then it is a free magazine. So every single phone call that a realtor gets, it’s somebody selling them something. Realtors are constantly bomb being bombarded with sales calls, but we’re the ones that call in and say, Hey, we’re doing this all for free. The vendors are paying for this. So the vendors then get access to this group by having an ad in the magazine and access to the events and then shout outs on social media. So it’s a three-prong approach at being in the right room to have an opportunity to earn their business.
Rory (12:28):
Say that again. Okay. So the vendors, the vendors pay for it because they get ads in the magazine. Mm-hmm . They get sponsorship
Remington (12:37):
Through online,
Rory (12:38):
Through the events and on social. We
Remington (12:41):
You got it. Yep. So really that’s what we, we look at, we look at what creates an environment where someone would go with you. Like if, if you’re, um, if you’re a top realtor and you’ve had your relationship with your mortgage lender for years, but the person you recruit on your team is brand new and they’re still making the relationship. So even the ones at the top, these vendors are making sure that they’re staying in front of, in the right room. I, I say this all the time, it’s better to be in the room than it is to be good at your job to get the initial business. And what I mean by that is, if you just stay in front of someone constantly, when it is time for them to make a change, the first person they think of is you. And it’s not because you’re amazing and you get things done on time because there’s 10 other people that do that too, is because you’re standing in front of them at the time they need you. And so that’s, that’s kind of the, the reason why it works. And so if you’re a vendor and you’re participating with us and real producers, your goal is to stay in front of the ones you’re already working with and then duplicate ’em and get more like them.
Rory (13:42):
Yeah. So goth, I want to go back and underscore that. So you’re saying effectively that being top of mind is not necessarily about being the best at what you do, it’s about being the one who’s in front of them at the time of need.
Remington (14:05):
I, I firmly believe that. Now, I’m not saying that that is how you sustain a business, because in order to get repeat business, you gotta be good at the thing. But in order to get the business, the number one thing that matters is top of mind awareness.
Rory (14:23):
Uh, okay. So and you’re saying that, that the vendor, that that’s your value prop to the vendors because the vendors are in front of all of these top agents every, how often do you produce the magazine?
Remington (14:37):
Yeah, it’s a monthly magazine.
Rory (14:39):
Okay. So that’s a lot to produce. How, how many articles, or like how many pages are in this thing every month?
Remington (14:45):
It depends on the size. So we’re in 130 markets now. I’ll, I’ll flash forward to the end of the story. That was 10 years ago, uh, proved the concept in nd partnered with a national company called Into, uh, publishing at the time. Now it’s called the in two companies. And they’re my, uh, essentially printing this niche magazine in 130 different markets nationwide. So if you fly into any major market or even a minor market, there’s a real producers there. The, the concept is it goes to the top, roughly five to 10% of the realtors in that city. When I first started, people didn’t get that. They, they had only been, you know, told that they need to have as many eyeballs as possible. And I said, is that really what you want though? Because I’ll tell you right now, there’s certain eyeballs. I don’t want seeing my stuff. I don’t want the phone calls of people who can’t afford my stuff or waste my time. And so this is really a, an approach to get in front of the right eyeballs and, uh, if you’re gonna advertise and be a partner with us and real producers, you understand that it’s not a pay-per-click model.
Rory (15:51):
Yeah, yeah. And not an impression model. I mean, that, that’s what’s interesting is what, what’s really like, one of the things that’s so unique about what you’re doing, which is part of why I wanted to talk to you about this is so much of advertising is literally driven by cost per, you know, impre CPM cost per whatever, thousand impressions. And it’s literally just like the spray and pray model mm-hmm . And you’re railing against that. You’re doing almost like a shehan wall thing where you’re going like, no, I’m going after a smaller audience and serving them in a deeper way. Mm-hmm . Which is everything we believe in at Brand Builders group.
Remington (16:27):
Yeah. Well, and it’s not, and this is specifically for the people that I’m talking to in this industry, though. I’m not saying this is the only way to do marketing if you’re a part of, so I own a sports bar. It’s not, that’s not the me This magazine is not the best medium for them. You know, cost per impression is great for the sports bar because, you know, we can only make $10 a burger and get you in as many times as we can. And we, we rely on volume. So we’ll do the products where it goes to every household and, you know, clicks on Facebook and everything like that. But when it comes to our vendors, you know, our core four industries, our lenders titles, uh, title companies, builders and home inspectors, because they are at the center of a real estate deal and have the most to gain, uh, money wise from a single real estate deal, those salespeople would do so much better with their marketing dollars to get in front of the right eyeballs instead of all the eyeballs. Mm-hmm . And so that’s what we preach to those guys.
Rory (17:28):
Well, yeah. And I would say, you know, you’re talking about real estate here, but just like rounding it out for everyone listening, most of the people listening here are in a mode where they’re like, if you’re an expert of any kind, by definition, it’s like you’re, you’re dealing with a higher level, a more narrow niche, like a smaller group where you’re a more targeted audience that you’re going after. And it, the strategy you’re talking about is interesting because it sort of rails against digitally, everybody goes, you know, how do I just get millions and millions of people? Um, same with print, but like mm-hmm . You’re decidedly going against that. And that’s what’s creating traction, which I really believe is the future. I believe that the future is who can serve the smaller audience in a deeper way. Mm-hmm . Um, and uh, I think that’s really cool.
Rory (18:18):
So, so I see the value add for i the vendors. Okay. So, so thinking about the event. Yeah. So I see the value add for the vendors because you’re curating a list of the top agents. It’s exclusive, which is also unique and cool that you have to be a top agent by production to even get the magazine. Which is funny because the woman who sold our house in Nashville is a top agent. And we walked into her, her office at the closing, your magazine was sitting right, right on her. Like, that’s awesome. Front desk at the reception. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, that’s great. That’s real. I know, I know this magazine. Um, and, and she, she is, uh, shout out to Lacey Newman. Like she, she’s a boss, like she’s in Compass, uh, here in Nashville and like luxury agent and all that stuff.
Rory (19:09):
So she’s got your magazine. And I go like, whoa, you’re, you’re reaching, you’re reaching the right person if she’s got that, um, out in her desk area, right. Like the reception. So I see the value add as a vendor to go by curating this list. You’re in front of them. What’s the value add to the agents? I mean, I know it’s free and I know you’re saying I’m not trying to sell ’em something, which is good, like a lot of people are selling ’em, but there’s a lot of, there’s also a lot of people giving away a lot of free garbage, uh mm-hmm . As as well. So what’s the value prop? And I’m curious, going back to the events also, and also, and, and then, and then translating it to the magazine. ’cause I’m trying to think about somebody listening, going, you could do this in the insurance business and if financial planning, you could do this if you’re a CPA. Like there, there’s other ways you could do this, but you gotta figure out how to provide value to the, to the community. So how do you do that? Yeah.
Remington (20:09):
Yeah. And I think community is the right word there, because originally we’re like, okay, are we a magazine or are we an events company? And I think over the last 10 years there’s been like trying to swing one direction or the other. But to be honest, the number one word you come back to is that community. It’s a culture and, uh, movement almost. Because if the events didn’t even exist, would the magazine still matter? And the answer is absolutely yes. See, it’s kind of like, we’ve alluded to Star Wars in the past. This is, we’re gonna geek out for a second here. So Star Wars made it, I think the figure is three times more on the products and memorabilia than they did the box office dollars of the movies. Um, so infinitely more on all the swag, but they never would’ve sold all the dolls and t-shirts had they not had the movies be so cool and successful. And so the magazine is at the center of what we do, like being on the cover of magazines, seeing your friends, seeing where you rank, seeing the stories, that’s always gonna be at the center. But all the other stuff that we do that really reflects that is little bits and pieces that add up to a ton of value that are within this community. So your original, uh, get getting back, you asked like three questions in there.
Rory (21:25):
Well, that’s, it’s, it’s really going. What are the, how do you be,
Remington (21:29):
Why does the realtor care?
Rory (21:30):
Yeah. Like and how do you make, that’s the question yourself, Val, valuable. How do you make the magazine valuable? How do you make the events valuable? The the ranking. The ranking is super interesting. Yeah. So, you know, so
Remington (21:42):
I’ll, I sat down Rory with 50 people, 50 people that I trusted in the real estate industry here in Indy ahead of time. And I said, I asked them all the questions, this is what I’m thinking and I’m thinking about starting this magazine, what should I put in it? What should I not put in it? What do I care about? And I, I did all those appointments before I did a single sales appointment to create the magazine. And the, the biggest takeaways I got is that exclusivity is a big deal. If you look at why Facebook take took off instead of MySpace. ’cause MySpace was cool. I had MySpace. Did you have MySpace?
Rory (22:15):
Oh yeah. Mm-hmm .
Remington (22:16):
Yeah. So Zaa, MySpace, alt Friendster, all these sayings. Facebook is the one that took off. And I think, you know what most people believe is the biggest reason is because of the exclusivity factor when it started. And so if you look at the magazine, it’s a badge of honor to even receive this magazine for starters. Now, as a realtor, the reason they care about it is because, uh, another platform where they can share their story, where someone else is saying they’re good at the thing, instead of them saying, I’m good at this thing, is third party validation for their business. So the first thing they get, you saw that magazine sitting on Lacey, is it Lacey? Lacey? Yeah. You saw it is sitting on her desk. Did she pay for that? No, it was a third party that said, this person is very good at selling real estate so much.
Remington (23:02):
So we put her on a cover. Whereas most of the other magazines that people were quote unquote, you know, saying were our competition, it was pay to play models. So Rory, hey grit, congrats on selling a ton of homes. We’re going to put you on the cover of this magazine for $2,000 and you can get a couple copies to send to your friends and family. That’s a model that works. And it was around for years before we started Real producer. I’ve, some of my agents have been on those and, and are still on those and that, that works and that’s cool and fine and everything, but if it, it kind of, it would devalue if we ever took the dollars of someone to get on the cover, you’re buying the exposure versus earning it. And so the realtors, just to
Rory (23:42):
Be clear, is is there a different person on each cover? Like, does yours work like that? Or is it one real?
Remington (23:47):
Oh yeah, it’s nomination base. So the way it works is anyone in real estate can nominate them. We personally vet them, make sure that they’re, uh, doing at least the numbers and they’re reputable. And then we feature them based on nominations. So they cannot pay to be on the cover. You can’t pay to receive the magazine. It’s all based on merit. And so the community understands that and they know that. So when they’re picking up the magazine, they’re not thinking, well, you know why she’s on the cover? ’cause Keller Williams has an ad on the back cover. Well, no, we don’t take the dollars of any brokerage, so you can’t pay to be on the cover. It’s truly based on merit. And I think that’s one of the central things we decided 10 years ago that has kept us, um, in their, in their thoughts as they think about their own promotional materials. Alright,
Rory (24:32):
So but then is, is one agent on the cover nationwide every month? No. Or are there different agents in every market, or how granular is the cover?
Remington (24:41):
It’s granular. As granular as the market is. If you fly into Indy and you don’t know anyone in Indy, you’re not gonna know who’s on the cover. Only the people in Indy care about who’s on the cover because it’s a magazine based for the Indianapolis Realtors, the top 500 realtors in Indy get it, the top 500 in Nashville, get theirs now. That’s how it started. And if, if you look at our 130 markets, it’s a different realtor on the cover of every single one of them. But this event we’re doing here in September, that’s why this event is such a big deal. And I’ll, I’ll sing your praises a little bit, give you some flowers. You’re speaking at this event. It’s the inaugural first event, RP Elevate. Come see, uh, Rory Speak live. And the reason it’s such a big deal is it’s the first time ever we’re joining all those markets and we realize that the networking, ’cause another one of your questions, you, you basically asked without asking, why do realtors care about this?
Remington (25:33):
Why do they care about a magazine that’s all about them? Well, first of all, I mean, healthy Ego is a real thing in real estate. I think we all know that. So we want to see our name and face and print. But I had a realtor at one of my master classes, say during right after Covid, he said the Indianapolis market was super hard hot. And for the first time ever there was, uh, multiple offers on, on listings. And they had to decide, who am I gonna go with? And this realtor’s name is Alan. He said The reason why I beat other agents on all of these deals was not because I had the, the higher price or even the better offer. It was simply because I have done enough networking with these realtors. They trusted me to get the job done, and they trust me to do it right. And so I won all these deals that everyone else lost. And I think that kind of encompassed our thoughts here. It’s not just realtors showing up to events to get their free prizes and free lunch and go home. They really want to know these other agents so they can improve the industry together. And I think that we’re at the center of that conversation. Yeah,
Rory (26:40):
It’s interesting. I’m, I’m actually speaking at an investor’s conference, uh, here in a couple months and they were telling me the same thing, especially like when you’re, when you’re like, um, putting deals together that they will win, they will buy properties and they’ll get those properties for a lower price because the seller believes that even though you’re offering less money, they’re more convinced that you’ll get the deal to go through and that it’ll get done Right. It’ll get done fast and that like it will actually happen. Yep. That’s a fascinating part of a personal brand is to go, you don’t even have to have the best offer. They just trust that you’re gonna get it done and get it done. Right. And you win business because of that, even if you don’t have the, like the most money.
Remington (27:26):
Yeah. And especially if you’re a likable person in the process, people want to go with someone that they know, like, and trust. I think we undervalue that likability factor. We know and trust is a big deal. And but that likability factor is so big when it comes to sales because if you’re gonna be in the trenches with this person, you better enjoy it. Otherwise they might go with the other deal even though it’s not as good of a package. So I totally believe in that. So,
Rory (27:51):
So then just to be clear, if you have like a hundred plus markets mm-hmm . And the cover only belongs to the people in that market, you really have like 1200 covers a year because it’s like 12 different ones in each market. And that’s why they, that’s part of why they care, is they actually know, they know the people on there. Yes. And then how often do you do the rankings?
Remington (28:13):
So the rankings, we reset every year. You know, we’re not trying to send the magazine to different realtors every single month based on their last month’s pro Sure. Uh, production. So this, this month for real producers, everyone’s in a tizzy. ’cause we’re redoing the list in January for this calendar year. And it’s really exciting ’cause we send out the badges, we get these little digital badges that says I’m a top 500 realtor. Um, and so this is a, a fun month for us, but yeah, it’s, but for the entire calendar year, based on last year’s production. So to give you an idea, you have to sell about 9 million number. 500 is right around 9 million in Indie.
Rory (28:49):
Mm-hmm .
Remington (28:51):
All the way up to 150 million
Rory (28:54):
Uhhuh for like the number one spot. Mm-hmm . Uhhuh
Remington (28:57):
. Last year we had someone do 180 million on a hundred and like 79 houses. He’s, it’s never been done before. His name is Mike Deck sold. He averaged a million dollar listing where most people were averaging 300. So it was pretty phenomenal.
Rory (29:13):
He definitely made it cover the 80 listings.
Remington (29:15):
Yeah.
Rory (29:16):
Wow. Yeah. Uh, that’s awesome. So then, um, okay, well, okay, so the ranking comes out once a year. What about the rest of the year? Like what else? Because like, that makes sense to me to go, like, I, I would be like, where did I rank? Where did my friends rank? Where did my team rank? But that only is once a year. The other 11 months, you gotta put something in there to make them pay attention other than the cover.
Remington (29:38):
Well, the content is all about the realtors. So we have rising stars, we have leaders, we have personal pieces, uh, and we also do stories on our vendors too. And that’s, I the vendors love us and the realtors actually appreciate that too because they’re getting to know these vendors on a deeper level versus just the guy that does my carpet cleaning. Um, so, uh, philanthropy, I mean, there’s so, there’s so much content. Here’s the, here’s the key, the biggest rule with real producers is that we try to have as little content that can be Googled as possible. Less than 10% of the magazine content can you actually Google to find the answers, which means that the majority of content is unique specifically to that issue and the story cannot be found elsewhere. So the cover story, the Rising Star, the leaders, people having an impact within the philanthropy. Like they’re very unique stories within the real estate community. And we do some fun stuff too, like staff, like we do have standings, quarterly standings, monthly standings that that does update. Um, and they, they eat that up as well. Um, but all the content is specific for the realtors of that city.
Rory (30:47):
Mm-hmm . Which is fascinating. It also seems like a insane amount of work to localize.
Remington (30:54):
That’s why I’m not doing it all, you know, well, issues. Yeah. That’s why we have franchise owners. Yeah.
Rory (30:59):
So, uh, and then, okay, so then, uh, in terms of monetizing this mm-hmm . Um, I think this is really cool. So you, you obviously are monetizing through the vendors. That’s how the magazine is paid for. You’re not selling subscriptions, you’re giving them away, the vendors are paying the bill here to get in front of everyone and they’re paying the cost of operations and all that sort of stuff. How else do you monetize events? Is that still the other big thing? Sure,
Remington (31:27):
Yeah. We make money off of the events. We actually, uh, for the longest time, just to be abundantly clear to the realtor, we didn’t have any ways to make money off of the realtors. We really wanted to establish that you can’t buy your way into the content. Once we established that nationwide, we started creating ways because they, they were asking us, we want extra copies of this. We want just our stories, we want booklets. So at that point we decided, okay, this is an opportunity. And we, we do little promos, little mini magazines of just their story where they can buy a hundred of them and leave behind at open houses and, and things like that. Um, obviously digital marketing has taken a shape differently so that if that’s gonna be part of the geofencing and Google words, like that’s a part of the package as a vendor.
Remington (32:14):
So there’s lots of other ways. And then obviously RP Elevate coming up is, uh, a national event. That’ll be the first time we’ve done that. But if you look at us, uh, real Producers for 10 years, my dream was to have a seat at the table with trusted real estate brands. When they, when you think of big brands that people look to for whatever, now, you know, Zillow is a very polarizing brand, but everyone knows Zillow. I think we’re finally at that point where, especially within the top realtor community, real Producers is a logo and a brand that everyone knows and trusts. And this last year with NAR really struggling with those lawsuits, they need a trusted voice within real estate. And a lot of ’em are looking towards real producers for that. So there’s a lot of opportunity in the future past, uh, vendors paying for an ad.
Rory (33:05):
Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s really, really cool. Um, do you guys do awards too? Do you do like Oh, yeah, yeah.
Remington (33:12):
Awards banquets are huge, man. We, we raise a lot of money for, um, for charities. Uh, most recently, the last three years, we focused all of our national efforts, uh, to fight human trafficking. And we’ve got five different organizations through what we call N two Gives, which is our parent company. N two Gives. And, um, in the last I think five years, we’ve raised $29 million, um, to fight human trafficking. Uh, I think 4 million of which came from just the real producers markets. So, um, yeah, the, the awards bank was, are a lot of fun, man. We get all dolled up, we, we donate to a good cause and then they get glass trophies that say they’re good at selling homes. Everyone loves it.
Rory (33:57):
Uhhuh . Yeah. Um, I, I love that. The, um, this is really, really, really cool. Remington. I, I, I think the, the idea here of going, how can I curate a very specific audience? How can I add value to them? Who is interested in reaching that audience? Let them pay the bill. And, and then you kind of rally this whole community and you’re just like serving this community, uh, and the granularity at which you’re serving them and the granularity at which you’re producing content covers and just content in general that’s like super exclusive content. It’s really, really fascinating And, and, and, and, and really, really cool. And I, I think the big lesson here is, is that, is to going, how can I serve a smaller audience in a deeper way? And even though we’re talking about real estate, you’re even more granular than that because you’re really, every market is pretty much completely different. Yeah. I mean, the content’s different, the cover’s different. All the vendors are probably different because I’m guessing it’s all localized vendors who are trying to reach that group for the most part. Um, really, really cool man. So where do, where do people go if they wanna get in touch with you or see, you know, learn about you or, um, you know, you’ve got, obviously you’ve got your new book out, all that stuff. So Agent Allies, like where do you want people to connect with you?
Remington (35:20):
Yeah, Remington ramsey.com would be a great place to start. That’s kind of the hub. Um, we converted my Instagram couple years ago to just being a talking head about marketing. So if you, if any of this was fascinating, you had mentioned different niche products that could be created with the same concept. Um, I talk about all that, so just find me on Instagram, Remington Ramsey. But the book Agent Allies is literally just my story, like a deeper look at how as a vendor you can use real estate agents to build your business a lot faster. Like, if you think about any vendor or service provider, like if you were to start a moving company tomorrow, Rory, instead of doing a billboard or a commercial or advertising the masses, my argument is you should advertise to the realtor. ’cause they’re the ones that know who’s at the center of the move and you’re gonna get a hundred people with advertising to one instead of just one. So the book is really an effort to bring vendors and real realtors together to improve the industry and, uh, get better at sales just in general. So it’s, it’s been a lot of fun. Number one new release in, in real estate over the last couple weeks.
Rory (36:23):
That’s really cool. That’s really cool. Um, well, I, I, I’m noodling and sitting here to go, how would we do this at Brand Builders Group? How would we apply it, you know, to another group? I think there’s a lot of disparate communities out there, even one that real estate that’s so established and has, has nar and like a lot of things. And yet there’s still these pockets of going, you can, you can serve a small group of these people mm-hmm . Um, and do something really, really significant. So thanks for making time to be on the show. Thanks for sharing your model and sharing a little bit about your heart man. And, uh, we look forward to staying in touch and, uh, wish you the best in your journey.
Remington (37:03):
Thanks for having me on, Rory, I, I told you before the show, but I’m a huge fan. I love your work, your, your books and, uh, strong man of faith, like leading the way, leading the charge on all those reels. Uh, uh, just keep it up, man. Thanks brother.

Ep 577: The #1 Thing That’s Holding You Back from What You Want | Jason Stacy Episode Recap

AJ (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden, and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well-known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started.
AJ(00:34):
You wanna know what the number one thing is that’s holding you back from what you want most? Well, I know what it is, uh, because it’s no different for you than it is for me or anyone else in the world. And the number one thing for all of us that is holding us back from success, and that could be success in business or finance or health or, uh, relationships, uh, we’ll just call it success in general, however you wanna define success. If you, if you don’t have what you consider successful or if you’re not where you thought you would be or if you’re not doing what you wanna be doing. For most of us, it’s just one thing. There’s just this one thing that’s in the way and not one thing is fear. Not one thing for all of us is an emotion. It’s fear, right?
AJ (01:28):
It’s, it’s telling yourself this won’t work and, uh, I’m not capable. Um, it’s, well, I can’t do this because what if it doesn’t work out and I wasted all this time or money or effort or resources, or, um, you know what, what if I do this and, and I do fail? Like, what are people gonna think about me? Or, uh, it’s, you know, what if I, I try to do it and I lose all this money, or I lose all my friends, or I lose my business, or I lose my marriage, or what they, it could be a hundred different things and I could go through and list out all the reasons why, but ultimately, they could all be summed up into one four letter word fear. If we don’t have what we want most often, it’s because we didn’t take the chance on ourselves.
AJ (02:15):
We didn’t take that leap of faith. We didn’t believe in ourselves enough to do the thing. We didn’t believe that we’d have the, the courage or the endurance, or the persistence or persistence or the resources, um, or we just didn’t even believe in our own ability to go out and learn and do the thing. There is a fear element to all of us that is holding us back from where we are to where we wanna be and from what we have versus what we want most. And it’s like, relationally speaking, it’s perhaps it’s like you’re too afraid to be fully known, and so you don’t have the marriage, um, that you want because well, you, you won’t be real and honest because you think to yourself, well, if I was really honest about who I, I really am, but they really love me. Like, if they knew who I really was, deep down, if they knew these crazy thoughts I really had, but they actually still love me.
AJ03:10):
And I, I bet that for many of us, we don’t have the health and the, you know, longevity plan that we really want because there’s some fear of, uh, missing out of like, man, if I really decided to give up alcohol and get healthy, like, would I even be any fun ? Like, would I get invited places? And man, if I, if I really start eating the way that I know I should and not eating on the go and eating fast food and eating a lot of processed foods, it’s like, um, would I really enjoy it? like, it’s like you, you tell yourself like, oh man, my life’s just gonna be a whole bunch of lettuce and salads and vegetables. And that’s not true, but it’s like, WI don’t, well, I even enjoy that. Like, w will it even work? Is it even worth it? All, right?
AJ (03:56):
It’s like there’s all these things and it’s like, man, it’s like I really wanna, I really wanna try to write this book, but what if it sucks? Like, what if no one buys it? What if I do all this? And it’s, it’s not for anything, right? Fear, fear is the thing that is holding almost all of us back from whatever it is that we want. And I think there’s a couple of things I just wanna mention about this. I just finished reading a book called Living Fearless. And, um, Jamie Winship is the author, living Fearless is the book. And one of the things that he says in the book, and it’s probably not my only takeaway, but it’s my biggest takeaway, I know it’s not my only takeaway, but what I loved, and he said, this was towards the very end of the book, he said, you can only become fearless when you walk through fear filled situations.

Ep 576: Managing Your Emotions, Energy and Environment for Long Term Success with Jason Stacy

AJV (00:01):

Hey everybody. Welcome to the influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here. And I am, uh, going to be having an amazing conversation with a new friend of mine, Jason Stacy. And, um, before I formally introduce him, as I always do, I wanna kind of let you guys know what this episode is all about and why you should stick around. Sometimes I have hyper-specific episodes that are really for those of you who are trying to write a book or launch a book, others who are building their speaking career, or, you know, you’re trying to build a coaching community. This is not one of those episodes. This is one of those episodes that is about how to succeed at life . So it doesn’t matter what you do, where you are, who you are, this is one of those universal conversations that is going to help you no matter what stage of business or life that you’re in.

AJV (00:56):

So I wanted to let you guys know upfront that, uh, occasionally we have these universal kind of conversations. It just applies to everything. Um, but I think this is a really great and important topic about managing your energy, emotions, and environment, and how being the master of those things helps you succeed at life. So that is why you need to stick around. Now, before we get into this amazing conversation about all these things, uh, let me introduce you to Jason. Stacy. We are gonna talk about his journey from homelessness to high performance coaching. Uh, and I think all I really, really, it’s gonna be, it’s God conversation about his testaments, uh, to resilience, adaptability, and unshakeable foundations, and how we can all build those from learning about these things. Now, over the last 20 years, he has worked with elite athletes, business leaders, and high stakes professionals, helping them not just reach the top, but more importantly, sustain their success once they get there. And his philosophy centers on mastering energy, emotions, and environment, because true success isn’t just about achieving greatness, it’s about sustaining an growing it wrong term. Jason, welcome to the show.

Jason Stacy (02:11):

Well, good morning everybody. . Well, thanks for a huge introduction. That’s great, .

AJV (02:16):

Well, you know, I think it’s one of these, and why I thought you were gonna be so great for this show, um, is I think a lot of people talk about how to get success. How do we reach the top? How do we do all these things? But very few people actually talk about what do you do when you get there and how do you keep it, and how do, how do you sustain it? It’s one thing to do all the work to achieve these things, but is it really what it’s all cracked up to be when you get there? And what do you, what do you do to maintain and sustain when you get there? Um, so I thought this was gonna be an, an amazing just topic for our particular audience. Uh, but before we get into that, uh, I have a burning question, , that I really wanna know, because I think it’s always a fascinating place to start is to learn a little bit about your story and your history. But I really wanna know, how did you go from, you know, being homeless to high performance coaching, and how has that journey really informed your approach to coaching?

Jason Stacy (03:17):

Wow. So to start off with a small question, I see so easy. There we go. We have a whole episode for this one right now. Um, well look, I mean, it’s, it’s a very long journey. It wasn’t something just like, you know, it some small or some sudden, you know, aha moment that happened. It was, uh, I mean, how I got became homeless. I mean, the, the short version is my father died when I was very young. I was around 10 years old. You know, it really hurt my mom quite a bit. Um, gosh, I always get a little bit emotional. I talk about it. But, um, uh, after a couple years of, you know, being pretty rough with her, I just, I was, I, I don’t know how I ended up at some people’s houses doing some weird babysitting thing. And I went back, um, after that and nobody was there, . So, yeah.

AJV (04:00):

Oh, wow.

Jason Stacy (04:02):

So weird. still get emotional about it. So anyway, so I had a few years where I was just by myself on the street just trying to figure out how to, to live, survive. And I was, you know,

AJV (04:11):

So what, you went home from a babysitting gig

Jason Stacy (04:13):

And how Yeah, that’s where I was staying. I was for a few weeks. I was like there for a while, like for a few weeks, like with these people. And these people were messed up too, as it was a, it was a terrible environment. It was, it was. Yeah. I can’t even believe some of the things, if I would ex explain to you or tell you some stories, like you wouldn’t believe it. It was just blowing my mind. But anyway, so yeah, I like, look, I ended up being, you know, homeless and I was by myself for a few years there for most of that part, finding ways to survive, to just all kinds of different things. And, you know, I was, I did try to go back to school. I officially, I finished eighth grade was the last grade that I finished, you know, like, you know, as far as school, school goes.

Jason Stacy (04:45):

But wow, I was trying to go back to school. I was having people, I was like doing things for, to help pretend like my parents to sign things and just doing stuff like this. But anyway, how I ended up getting back off the streets was in this neighborhood, which was a pretty crappy neighborhood really. It was, um, a, uh, martial arts school, like a, it was in between like an adult bookstore and like a old tavern, you know, it was like a, in a pawn shop. It was just a, it was a crappy little place, right. Um, you know, the area itself. And I used to walk by this martial arts because I was, I was born in Japan actually, and I, as a young child, I started martial arts from when I was a little kid. And I was just always a big part of my, like, identity in my life, you know, before all this, you know, sort of mess happened. And, um, I, uh, I mean, I would go in there sometimes and just watch and sit and watch and, you know, eventually the owners, but there was like a lot of like police officers and military guys kind of training there. And, um, they, uh, uh, eventually let me train there, even though I had no parent to like sign things, this and that. And

Jason Stacy (05:41):

I would say that’s probably, uh, geez, so weird. Anyway, that place is where like, it like got me off the streets.

AJV (05:51):

Wow.

Jason Stacy (05:52):

So I haven’t talked about that much in a while. So,

AJV (05:56):

You know, um, my, my good friend Ben Klarik always says that tears are truth tellers.

Jason Stacy (06:02):

, right. There you go. There’s a bit of truth there. Anyway, a lot of people in my life now who I consider family I’ve met there mm-hmm . So they, you know, a lot of training, you know, even, excuse me, eventually started teaching there. And through there I actually learn a lot about coaching, a lot about people. Because in the martial arts, it’s a very holistic approach to things. You know, you, you’re developing the person not just learning how to fight, at least where I was training, you know, for all of our black belt levels too. I had stacks of books I had to read about philosophy, about history, about physiology, about human behavior, psychology. And I had to write papers on each of these books. So it was very about developing you as a human, as a person, not just, Hey, can you defend yourself or fight?

Jason Stacy (06:39):

It was a big part of that, obviously, you know. And then obviously the actual training, you’ll learn how to manage your emotions, about managing your mind, about being more aware of yourself, about your surroundings. And it was very, for me, just, I just got obsessed with that. And I got really like, hyper, you know, focused on being curious, asking lots of questions, wanting to understand how and why people work and the way they work. And I, I learned a lot about coaching, a lot about humans, a lot about people. You know, I was pretty young at that time. I was probably 19 or 20 years old, and I was like teaching guys twice my age, you know, about, about certain things. And, you know, I just, uh, the, my coaches and senses, they, you know, probably from my other experiences, you know, I had like a good sort of sense of, of these things.

Jason Stacy (07:17):

They just sort of naturally kind of went with that. And now, you know, from there I had some, we had some students who were like physiotherapists and massage therapist, and I would talk to them at night. I had a roommate. She was, you know, her and I, uh, got a place together as a roommate and she was a therapist, you a massage therapist and physio. And I’m talking about all these things about how the body works. And that’s, and she’s like, how do you know all this stuff? She’s like, you know, more than like, my teachers do, but you just don’t know the words of it. Like, you don’t know how to describe it. So it kind of like got me interested, like, Hey, you know, maybe I’ll go learn how to do this as a, as a career or a job. ’cause you know, I was still kind of floating around.

Jason Stacy (07:49):

So I put myself through like massage school and then sports therapies. And then I became a personal trainer, then a strength coach, and then athletic trainer, you know, the guys that kind of run on the field and do all that, you know, emergency care stuff in sport. And I did sort of just built up my own education from there, you know, and the one thing I, I noticed though, as I was doing that, a lot of the physical stuff just came natural for me. Like my kinesiology, all this stuff, I graduated honors, all this, I, it was, it just sort of came natural maybe from all the martial art training and understand human body and all that and the mechanics. Um, but one thing I noticed when I started working more, whether it was in gyms or clinics or, or on the field, is that there was a lot of very knowledgeable people, right.

Jason Stacy (08:27):

A lot around me. Most of ’em had much more experience. They had all their degrees and I had none of these things, you know, I just worked my way through it, sort of very non-traditional ways of getting educated. A lot of it was self-educated, which is I guess a bigger thing now, but back then not as much. So I had to really dig deep and figure out, find a way to learn these things and be in the right environment around the right people to, you know, be able to have access to this information. But one of the things that I did notice that people just didn’t quite get was the people part. Hmm. The building trust, the communicating, the connecting with people to get them to, you know, one of the biggest things that I really push and talk about with my coaches and other trainers and whatnot is, is, and even my clients, it, it’s, it’s that difference between people doing things because they have to versus because they want to.

Jason Stacy (09:12):

Hmm. So like a commitment over compliance type of thing, right? Mm-hmm . And so everyone was doing things because they had to, or because the doctor or the physio or the coach or whoever was telling them to do that, right? And so, you know, we had the typical thing right, where everyone kind of starts and stops and starts and stops. And so nothing was really happening, but I was getting, you know, I’m the new guy, everyone’s twice age with all these PhDs, and I’m like, I barely finished school. And I kind of went through this like, self-learning process and through just doing hard work, I got opportunities to be in the right places. And yet all the athletes and all the different coaches even and even physios were coming to me wanting to work with me, wanting to ask me questions, which I thought was really weird.

Jason Stacy (09:47):

But a lot of it was just like, I was just curious. I asked lots of questions, not in a disrespectful way, but to understand like, Hey, why are we doing this or that and this way, or what, why don’t we try this instead of that? And really just understanding these things. But the biggest part was, you know, everyone I worked with knew that I’d always give a hundred percent no matter what I was doing, where I was at, I was always a hundred percent engaged. And I never pretended I knew something I didn’t know. I didn’t have to be the one with all. So lemme

AJV (10:13):

Ask, I ask you a question about that really quickly because this whole concept of are you doing it because you have to versus you want to, I love that you said that, you know, is this a compliance thing or is this a commitment thing? Uh, I think it’s really important to something you just said is, you know, no matter what I did, I always gave it a hundred percent, right? Yes. Um, and I don’t think a lot of people do that.

Jason Stacy (10:37):

I agree.

AJV (10:39):

I tell you this, hear your take on, I’d love to just hear you. ’cause I think a lot of people are listening of going like, am I really good giving what I, whatever I’m doing 110% and is my team, or, you know, are people like missing their potential? And how do we get ourselves to give that level of commitment? How do we get our teams to do that?

Jason Stacy (10:58):

Yes. Well, I, I mean, I can answer, there’s a lot of, uh, answers to that question. I mean, one of the first things I would say is, you know what, if you’re asking that question more times than not, not always, but most of the time you already know the answer. You know what I mean? Like, if you’re asking, I go, am I really doing the what I could do? I mean, again, this is the same thing I see over and over again as everyone likes to lie to themselves. Mm. Kind of pretend, you know, we don’t have to just have that look in the mirror and go, Hey, you know, and, and I would say, um, how, how we go about doing that. Obviously, my, my first step is always looking at yourself. You know, yes, you’re right, your team, all these different things. But, you know, one of the biggest things about are you really, you know, doing it because you have to or because you want to.

Jason Stacy (11:35):

I mean, there’s so many variables there. There’s something you said that made me think of something. I, I forgot what you were saying, but, um, you know, for me, the biggest starting point is looking at yourself. You know, if you’re asking yourself that question, obviously, you know, there’s something missing, right? Mm-hmm . So just try to clear all that clear outta your head, try to clear the facade of what you think you’re doing, you know, and, and I think it goes to, it kinda leads to this, this other thing I like to talk about where, you know, to really start to improve and to go another level and to get that next stage, there’s, I think there’s like phases you go through, right? You know, it’s like these journeys. And a lot of it is, is, you know, it, it requires a level of vulnerability, like opening yourself up to, you know, whether it’s being coachable, being honest with yourself, you know, being, you know, a little bit, maybe, maybe not harder on yourself, but maybe having a, a balance of being really hard on yourself, but also being, having some self-compassion mm-hmm .

Jason Stacy (12:22):

Because sometimes we kinda like bring ourselves down and we end up not getting anything. We kinda get stuck. So I think there’s this, this, this process of you kinda need to have some vulnerability to be open for these things. Have that balance of being so, you know, being honest with yourself and being direct with yourself while still having some sort of self-compassion, knowing that you are, you know, doing what you need to do. And then that kinda leads into being a bit more mature, a bit of maturity of understanding. Maybe that comes with the experience of doing that, because it does take, it does take work to get there, you know what I mean? And, and I mean, I suppose there’s a lot of different layers here. You know, it’s kind of a big thing to . I’m not sure where to start, you know, on this commitment over compliance part.

Jason Stacy (12:56):

But I, I, I think the biggest part for me, I always to try to help coaches understand and, and, you know, people I work with, understand is it’s, it, it’s really about you. I can’t tell you, you know, this is how it is or not how it is. You have to know, you have to find a way to stop lying to yourself and stop sort of like pretending to hide behind some facade of like, oh, you have a system that you follow, or here’s my 10 steps to this, or here’s, you know, we all get busy doing that. We all like, you know, we’re like trying to sell ourselves constantly, you know? So I think we have to always kinda have one foot in, one foot out, you know? And then that kinda also leads to the people around you, you know, are they feeding you? Are they a little yes. Men kind of thing? Are they feeding you, you know, bs are they being honest with you? Are they, you know, are they doing the best that they can? There’s a lot of layers here. So I’m not sure what part that you wanted me to break down, but, you know, . Yeah. I

AJV (13:42):

Think, I think the biggest part that I think a lot of people really struggle with, and I am, you know, thinking a lot about, you know, the old saying is like, they’re just not quite reaching their potential. Sure. And I guess my, my real question is, you know, and we forget the teams for a second, and if we looked at, you know, all of us in the mirror and says like, yeah, I know I’m not giving it a hundred percent. I know I’m not doing my best. Why, from your experience, why do you think that is? And what, what would be some like tactical, tangible steps of going, Hey, this, this is what I have to do to be better. Right? And I think, I think there’s a lot of that just out there. And I don’t think this is new, right? I think everyone wants the easy road to success, right? It’s like, we all want it right now. We don’t wanna do the hard work to be fit, to be, you know, have healthy financials or healthy relationships or to be successful. It’s like, like, what’s the quickest way I can get there? And true success doesn’t happen like that. Yeah. But that’s, that’s the truth. No one really likes to talk about , but I think it’s the truth that we all really need to hear is like, no, that I, it actually requires work.

Jason Stacy (14:51):

Sure. Look, I I would say, you know, when you first started speaking, uh, somebody go back earlier, I think one of the biggest problems we have is there’s too many distractions as well. So it’s very easy to kind of think, you’re know, being busy doing all this and that, being very distracted. So you have to learn how to focus. So I would go to take a little step back. The, the how do you, how do you do what you need to do and be committed to it is that you have to learn now. And I, I don’t remember why I learned this, but I know it’s from someone else. I’m stealing this for sure. I just can’t remember where it was a long time ago, but I’ve been using it for decades now, is that, you know, the definition of focus, right? Focus is making the most important thing, the most important thing.

Jason Stacy (15:26):

Mm. And what is the most important thing is whatever I’m doing right now, like, you and I are having this conversation, and I just look at it as like, you and I, you and aj, Jason and AJ we’re just chatting, catching up, getting to know each other a little bit better. You know, I’m not worried or thinking about what I have to do after this. What just happened before I got on the call? What, you know, what my kids are doing, what arenas doing what this, none of that matters. Like right now I’m here like nothing else matters, period. And I’ve trained and conditioned myself to make sure that like, this is where I am, and if I ever catch myself slipping, I pull myself right back in, straight away. Right? So I think that’s a big part of being able to like, develop that skill.

Jason Stacy (15:59):

Now, what keeps people from d doing this? I think, you know, like you said, looking in the mirror and saying these things and you, you know, that you’re not really what’s, what’s stopping people? Mm-hmm . I mean, again, I think you’re right. It’s nothing new, right? Sometimes it’s, you know, it evolves in different ways, but there’s not really many new things in the if we’re really being honest. You know, it’s just evolution and we, different wording and descriptions of it and different approaches maybe. But it’s all kind of very similar. But I, I think it goes to the, the, the first part I thought of was this, is that it’s a fear. Mm-hmm. A fear of failure. A fear of, you know, well, what if I do this and it doesn’t work? How am I gonna be perceived? People worry about, you know, the perception of them and, you know, perspective and perception people have, you know, from others, he goes, no one wants to, you know, whether we like to admit or not, no one wants to look bad.

Jason Stacy (16:44):

Like go out there and put yourself out there and it fail. Obviously we don’t want that. You know what I mean? We don’t want to see like, we’re trying our best and it doesn’t work. ’cause then it hurts our identity. So people lock in too much of, you know, their identity with what they’re, you know, they’re doing, whether it’s success or failure. There’s, nowadays it’s even harder because everything on social media and online is about, everyone’s so successful, it’s so easy. And here’s your, I did these three steps and now I have everything and all this kind of, you know, this facade of, of how things work. So I really think there’s this fear, and, and the, and the issue is, and this is something with arena, you know, the, the tennis squad I’ve been working for years now is, and a lot of them actually is, is the, the thing that gets them past.

Jason Stacy (17:20):

And that next level is them realizing that it is fear that’s stopping them, right? There’s this threat, this fear, right? Versus, you know, that kind of threat versus challenge kind of concept, right? So most people are in this, in this threat state where their, their fear of whether it’s fear of failure, whether being seen a certain way, whether of, you know, it is a bit scary to do something new. You know, there’s a lot of layers of fear. The, the, the main part is you have to learn how to deal with fear, right? You have to face fear. You can’t wait for it to go away. You can’t, um, you know, get busy doing other things to think it’s gonna get, you know, kind of work your way around it. There is something that all of us know, all of us know that’s holding us back, right?

Jason Stacy (17:59):

Everyone knows may, maybe it’s hard for them to see it right now, but deep down inside, if they really be honest with themselves, they know what’s holding them back. What are they worried about? What are they scared about? And if they’re having trouble doing that, find people around them to help them realize what those things are. And then they need to face those things. They need to turn around, open their eyes and go through it. The only way to get through fear and to get to that next level is to go through it. There’s no going around it. There’s no waiting, there’s no, you know, buying a bunch of little mini courses or doing this little thing or doing a little of that. You know what I mean? Like, that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. Just like you said, you’re talking about getting fit and healthy and diets.

Jason Stacy (18:33):

I mean, how many seven step programs to making a million dollars or your bestselling book, or your diet or your work app, there’s thousands of them. And if they all worked, and then why are there thousands of them? Why do we keep buying more and more every year? Well, because they don’t work. And I mean, they might work, but they don’t work because people are missing first this element we’re talking about, like, are they really being honest with themselves, that commitment to doing and committing to doing these things? The other is those three elements that you mentioned about, what I really focus on is managing your energy, your environment, and your emotions. Like for me, those are the things that, that’s the glue that holds all that together. That’s the fundamental stuff that people don’t work on, right? Mm-hmm . Because that’s what we’re talking about right now.

Jason Stacy (19:12):

Like commitment over compliance, you know, that vulnerability, maturity that, you know, understanding, you know, how you work that self-awareness, those three elements, without those you can buy and do every course you want. You could do all the steps and you might get some success, but you’re never gonna sustain it. You’re gonna be a one hit wonder, right? And that one hit isn’t gonna hit what it should have. And it could have because you’re just copy and pasting, you know, you’re just typing into something, see what chat GPT told you, and you’re just gonna follow the steps and hey, ta-da. It’s all magic. And again, some people might get a little bit further on, but they’re just gonna go right back to where they were. They’re not gonna keep growing. They’re not gonna keep going through this because it’s just, it’s not real. It’s not coming from inside from them.

Jason Stacy (19:51):

You know? It’s that, that analogy of like, you know, before you ever drive a stick, a manual, right? You, you know, you have the knowledge of what you’re supposed to do, right? You know, pushing the clutch, you know, the gears and all that stuff. But it doesn’t matter how much you memorize it, you know, it, you can recite it, you can explain it a hundred different ways to like 10 different languages. As soon as you get behind the car, the first time you’re jerk and stalling, you know, and you’re, you’re killing the engine and you’re, you know, ’cause that’s a different level of understanding. That’s experience and understanding. And so that’s the part that gets missing. And, and though I honestly believe over my own personal experience, my professional experience and all the different people I’ve helped become, you know, world champions in sport who’ve, you know, started businesses and became successful, all them, the main focus wasn’t here’s the details system that you need to follow.

Jason Stacy (20:33):

Like we find some that fits you, right. Find a system that fits you and your environment and where you are right now, right. And your resources and things that connect with you. That’s great. Find that. But that system’s only gonna go so far if you don’t know how to manage your emotions. Mm-hmm. Because that’s part of that commitment over compliance part, isn’t it? Right. That resistance, that fear that whatever the hesitation that you have or maybe that like, you know, oblivious thing that you think everything’s perfect and you’re amazing and you’re not really Right. , you have things to work on. Maybe it’s the other side of that coin, you know, managing your emotions, I said is a big part. Managing your energy. So your internal energy, your mental energy, your physical energy, you know, managing that, because that’s a key part. Because it doesn’t matter how switched on you are, how good you are, you are, you know, if you’re mentally, emotionally, physically fatigued, you’ll manage that energy. Whatever you do is gonna be, you know, half-assed. It’s not gonna be very effective.

AJV (21:21):

Yes. I have a question about that. So, because I think this is a really big topic in a lot of different, uh, circles right now. Sure. What would you say are the best things that you’ve seen work to help people manage their energy?

Jason Stacy (21:36):

Sure. I think, I think the first thing, I mean, the first thing is obvious, always acknowledging it. Like it’s actually a key thing. You know, more than your, your systems and your time. I, I would say I always start with the physical things, right? Because the thing about doing something that’s more tangible and physical that is in your control, no matter what your mood is, right? No matter how you’re feeling right now. So I’ll give you an example. Like, let’s say it’s a very simple example, how I breathe mm-hmm . Like, I can get you to breathe a certain way right now, and you’re gonna get, you know, if I say, let’s say we do some, I don’t know, some meditative yoga type breathing, you know, where we’re like breathing, like really in, in slowly hold your breath and have really long slow exhales, you know, we get more parasympathetic.

Jason Stacy (22:15):

I, I can explain how that works later if you want. But, you know, having like longer exhales, it becomes more parasympathetic. You’re more in that rest, relax, you know, digest, you know, you’re more sort of aware of where you are. You’re more aware of your body or your surroundings. So we can spend five minutes just breathing nice and slow. Now how are you gonna feel at after we, if we do this breathing for real, you know, if you just switch off everything, no noise, no distraction, and you just breathe real slowly, how you gonna feel? Are you gonna feel fired up? Like you’re ready to go? Like, fight Dante on the world? You jumping up and down screaming, of course not right? You gonna be like, just calm and relaxed. Ah, and that was just from changing how you breathe. If I get you breathing really, really fast right now, just even just on your own, just breathing really fast and all crazy, are you gonna feel all relaxed and calm?

Jason Stacy (22:57):

Of course you will. Yep. Yeah. Right. If I have you take a deep exhale everything and hold your breath as long as you can, and keep it, keep holding as long as you, as long as you can, you’re gonna be calm and relaxed, you’re gonna be stressing out. So just by some physical thing, simple as breathing, it’s gonna change how you’re feeling. This makes sense. Mm-hmm . So that’s, and that’s how you’re feeling. That’s big part of how you manage your energy, right? So understanding, and my, and my biggest point of that is if I do something physical, how I move my body, how I stand, if I do some, some mobility, some slow moving, you know, tai chi or yoga or what, whatever you want to call it, right? Versus if I stood up right now running places fat, I can for 10 seconds, I’m gonna be a different person for that moment, right?

Jason Stacy (23:33):

Afterward, right. My state, my energy, my focus, my intention is all gonna be in a different place based on how I just, what I did with my body. And, and the reason I like to talk more about that is that is again, like how I feel doesn’t matter, right? I need to get something done. Mm-hmm . I need to, I have to, I have to face something. I’m in the middle of something, something’s approached me, good or bad, opportunity, obstacle, whatever the thing is. If I need to be in a certain state, I need to manage my energy as best I can. I always start with a physical because that’s in my control, no matter how I feel, right? No matter my mood, no matter what’s going on. Now, yes, it’s difficult sometimes to do those things if you’re in a certain mood or a certain state of mind, right? Or an environment. But that’s just the, that’s just the, it takes a little bit of discipline to build the habit, right? That’s

AJV (24:18):

Good. Yeah.

Jason Stacy (24:19):

So it just takes a little bit of discipline to do what you need to do regardless how you’re feeling. So I would say the managing energy part is just being aware. There’s a lot of things. I mean that I, I, I know I harped on that for a while, but, you know, the breathing’s a big part. So at the end of the day, I do a thing called legs up breathing. So with all my athletes, all my people, at the end of the day or end of a match or after end of like a, maybe you have an intense session of like some new thing with your business and you guys have just been going for hours and you’re just, you know about to your, your head’s about to explode and you’re exhausted. Just go lay down, throw your legs up on the couch, you know, or up on a wall and just breathe and just, just try to let your head and relax your neck, relax, get it sink into the floor and focus on having really slow long exhales.

Jason Stacy (24:57):

Just sit there and anything goes in your head, just let it come, come and go. Don’t try to think about anything. Don’t not think about anything. Just let it happen. Whatever happens, and just sit there for four or five minutes, two minutes if that’s all you have, right? And that just resets a lot of things in your body. Gives you a moment because it works and kind of recharge one with your legs up. It takes a lot of stress off your heart, off your system. You getting on that blood flow back. You know, two, that breathing, that, that slower exhale for example, is, that’s one example. Is it you become more parasympathetic. So you know, that sort of more relaxed and calm sort of state versus fight, fight fear, which is probably what you’ve just been doing for the last two hours. You know? So you’re kinda resetting your nervous system kind of going, okay, let’s just reset for a moment. And if you do those little mini breaks throughout the day, those things add up. So if you have those little, whether you can pull your legs up or not, but even just take that time out to breathe, to slow yourself down, to get off your phone, to switch off your head. Even if it’s two minutes, you know, I’ll, I’ll tell you a quick story. Um, if I’m going too fast, lemme know. ’cause I get very excited about this stuff. . No,

AJV (25:58):

I think this is great. I think, you know, I think with the, the biggest kind of takeaway that I’m pulling from this, and then I want you to share, uh, the quick story. But it’s like, so much of this requires you to pay attention to yourself.

Jason Stacy (26:09):

A hundred percent. Thank you. Oh my God, that is so amazing. Exactly. All of everything that we have to do, and everything I talk about it starts with you or looking at yourself in the mirror, you know, like that, that self-awareness and there’s ways of developing your body tells you a lot of things before you realize it. There’s even studies now that have shown that our brain is reacting to something before it actually happens, right? Before it actually happens. Almost like we’re in this like weird live TV delay thing where our brain is just, just a moment before something happens, it’s a responding to it. So you know what, the more aware you can become of what your body’s telling you the be and, and, and, and of your environment, which we haven’t even broken down that at all. But like, the environment’s a huge part, you know, of being able to know how to manage your energy.

Jason Stacy (26:49):

So managing energy, I think is start with the physical, tangible things. You know, you understand that how you move your body and how you breathe is going to either use energy or restore energy, right? It’s gonna recharge you or it’s gonna drain you. It’s gonna put you in a state of alertness and hyper, you know, readiness or it’s gonna be calm and more relaxed. Like all these different, I mean, go on and on and on. And so again, you have control of that. And so the quick story I have is, I, I remember I had this space for a couple years. I was teaching a couple different schools and universities. I was coaching on the side, I was doing mentoring, I was teaching juujitsu, I was doing all these different things. And um, plus I had all my kids and they’re all very busy. I’m always very, very engaged with those guys.

Jason Stacy (27:24):

And, um, you know, I would, I had this little thing, and I have this issue with sleeping. I sleep a couple hours a night, you know, like sometimes even when I go to sleep, my body doesn’t like switch off. I have some things I have to work on with that. ’cause it’s, it’s not great, but been that way for a very long time. And I would do something instead of having like this monophasic bit of sleep. So like one big block of sleep and every, you know, we all do, like the nighttime we have our seven to nine hours is I wasn’t getting any sleep. So throughout the day I’d have these little mini breaks. Hmm. So let’s add like four different places to go to that, you know, for work, for teaching, coaching, et cetera. And before I got there, I’d say I’d drive to the plates, I’d sit in my car for, I’d turn everything off.

Jason Stacy (28:00):

So it’s just quiet. And I’d sit there for however much every time I have two minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes, and I would just chill, just breathe. And I try not to think about anything. And if I do, I just let it kind of float in and outta my head. And then I, and I, I had this visualization in my head, like, okay, whether I had an alarm on in case I fell, fell asleep. I, i soon as I had to get outta the car, I opened the door. As soon as I closed the door, it was like a light switch in my mind. I go, boom, boom, and I’m ready. As soon as I walk in the door, I’m just so on fire, so focused. I’m just, I’m a hundred percent just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I get to my car afterward and I sit there, I’m like, oh my God.

Jason Stacy (28:29):

I’m just, I’m just done. I’m exhausted. And I, I’ll spend two minutes there before I drive, and then I drive to the next place and I do the exact same thing before I get outta my car. I reset, I breathe, I chill, I have a, a nap. If I had 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever. And then as soon as I walk in the door truck, close my car door, it’s like a light switch, a click, everything turns off and I go, Hmm. Because again, nothing else matters except for what I’m doing right now. If you like, you and aj, you’re spending your time to, you know, let me come and talk and share and all this stuff. Like how could I not be 100000% here for you right now? Like, how disrespectful is that to myself and to you and to everyone else. Like, it has to be that way. And so for me to have the energy, I had to find a way to fit in those little gaps to like kind of reset, recharge so that way I was a hundred percent engaged with whatever I needed to do. You know,

AJV (29:12):

Sorry for you really quick. Something just dawned on me. Sure. Um, because there is such a systemic problem, I think, in life. Sure. ’cause it doesn’t matter if it’s at home or at work with, uh, multitasking.

Jason Stacy (29:27):

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

AJV (29:28):

Right. It’s like we’re so busy that you can’t just do one thing. Sure. And I’m just curious like how much of that is what’s draining our imagery? Because it’s like if you, if you really had the ability to only be like, Hey, what’s the most important thing? It’s the thing I’m doing right now, and it gets all my focus. Sure. And it seems like your entire body, your entire being can go in one direction. But if you’re trying to do this, like, I was just thinking of like some of my days where it’s like, I have the kids in the back, right? I’m doing business calls on the phone, I’m driving, like I’m, I’m doing a hundred things at the same time. And then it’s like, I’m like, huh, I’m so tired

Jason Stacy (30:06):

.

AJV (30:07):

So much of that is because it’s like I’m not doing any one thing at the same time. And I’m just curious, like how much of that is a, a real stressor for your energetic being?

Jason Stacy (30:20):

I think all the above. I, I, I think, you know, look, the reality is, especially when we have families and businesses and, you know, obligations and all these different things, I think the, the first part is just to understand like, there’s obviously gonna be times where that’s how it is. You know, you gotta call, you have to take, and you just pick the kids up from school and there’s this sport thing and there’s this and that. And like, you know, sometimes it, it’s gonna happen. So I think that’s a big part of just being able to manage your energy is understanding like, look, that’s how it’s gonna be that way sometimes. And, and this, there’s gonna be these moments where it is gonna be a bit more chaotic. There’s gonna be things that’ll come up that weren’t in your control. The timing was off. And so instead of, you know, having that be like a burden, you know, and it’s a weight, you know, you can save some of that energy and that resource by not stressing that you’re stressing, right?

Jason Stacy (31:01):

Mm-hmm. Not stressing about the fact that you’re doing this thing. Because that often I think is the worst part is, is the, the thought that we know that we’re doing something or that we know that it’s too much or that, you know, we overthink this a little bit. So I think that’s a big step of managing your energy in that sense, is just accepting the fact, look, sometimes it’s gonna be this way. Yeah. Now the next thing though is going okay, it doesn’t mean you just allow it to happen and don’t have control over that and don’t, you know, create the environment where you can have your moments at least, right? Where that is your time to, to be able to switch off again, it takes practice. You have to learn how to do that, right? And, and, and so, you know, if you go and say multitasking, we have to do all the a hundred different things, that’s great.

Jason Stacy (31:38):

But I’m sure you’ve heard this before, it’s like, well, are you looking to just get something done, like half as it get it out, tick a box like everybody else, right? Or are you trying to be the best at what you do? Are you trying to get really good at what it is you’re trying to learn? Or what you’re trying to get to? Are you wanting to really be seen as like, you know, and even the thing is, this goes back to lying to yourself. If I’m just half-assing on a bunch of different things, right? And I kind of glued it together really quick, right? When it comes down to the, the big moments, right? Of, of knowing and believing in yourself. Like you already know you’re full of. Excuse my language. Like you already know, right? Because you know, you’ve can, you know, you’ve kind of half-assed in this.

Jason Stacy (32:16):

You kind of put that together, you know, you didn’t give it your best, right? Mm-hmm . So when it comes down to it, it, it’s like, if I easier analogy is like with training, if, you know, if, if arena who, you know, I don’t know if you guys know, you know, slink, she’s world number one tennis player. I’ve been with her like six, seven years. You know, if she knows that, if, if our practice, our training, if she was kind of not really committed to it, not really focused, not really there, you know, when she shows up on the court and there’s a very stressful moment, a lot of pressure, she’ll fall apart somewhere inside of her. Her, you can’t lie to yourself. You can try to pretend to, but when it comes down to it, it’s gonna show up. Yeah. And it’s gonna show up in the times that you don’t want most.

Ep 575: 3 Traits of Successful People | Shawn Lemon Episode Recap

RV (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started.
RV (00:34):
Three things that make successful people successful that I don’t know that we hear enough about, or that we maybe we take for granted, or we’re not sure that they, they are really there. And so, as I was listening to Carrie’s story and also thinking back on my own life, and then thinking about so many of our successful clients and where also where we’re going, these, these three things really jumped out to me to go, you know, if you wanna be a successful person, these are three things that I think you really need to commit to, and you need to ask yourself on the front end, am I willing to commit to these things? Because if you’re not, no matter how skilled you are, no matter how talented you are, no how much, no matter how much head knowledge you have, I think these are the things that are, are more invisible, they’re more hidden, that really hold people back from success.
RV (01:28):
And so the first one is to crush it where you are at. And this is one we definitely don’t hear enough about when it comes to success. Everybody talks about like, Hey, start the side hustle. Hey, do the next thing. Hey, you, you know, figure out what your vision is. And all of those things are good. But I think too many times we overlook the importance of being successful. Not just successful, but being very successful at the thing that is right in front of us. Meaning the best way to set yourself up for success in the next thing is to be successful doing the thing that you’re doing right now. Lemme say that again. The best way to set yourself up for being successful at the next thing is to be successful at doing the thing that you’re doing right now. And I think that many of us embrace this lie.
RV (02:31):
We live in this fantasy land that once I’m doing the thing I want to do, then I will suddenly make the sacrifices it takes to be successful. Once it’s my business, then I would, then I would pay the price, then I would put in the work. Or once, once we get past, you know, once I get this certification or that certification or, or once I got a new boss, or once I got promoted, or once I made this much money, or, or once I had kids, or once I didn’t have kids, you know, like once they were grown and outta the house, like we so often convince ourselves that we will really turn it on. We’ll really pay the price. We’ll really put in the work. Like we’ll really show up and do what it takes to be successful when the external circumstances change. And that is a lie.
RV (03:24):
I mean, if you can’t turn it on now, if you can’t pay the price, if you can’t make a sacrifice, if you can’t endure some short-term pain to be successful at the thing you’re doing now, why do you suddenly think you would be willing to in a different situation? And I guess there’s times where maybe that is true, right? Where you go, man, I hate my job. I hate my boss. I’m not giving this company one lick of more effort. You know, I’m gonna work just hard enough not to get fired. And maybe that is true, that if it was your own thing, maybe, maybe you would. But I think we overestimate how easy that is. The reality is that, like Vince Lombardi said, winning is a habit.
RV (04:05):
Being a winner is something in your character, right? People who are winners win at everything. Like they win at all the things they pursue, not just winning on the scoreboard, or not just beating other people, but, but creating excellence, doing excellent work, showing up powerfully, serving people, making a difference, making an impact, right? Making contributions to the teams they are a part of. That’s not something you do once in a while. That is not something you do when the conditions are perfect. That is a character trait that you have to decide and commit to embracing that I am a winner because I’m always a winner and I’m gonna succeed because I, I, that’s what I do. I succeed. We’re gonna be excellent. ’cause That’s what we do around here. We, we make excellent things. And yeah, it’s hard at times. Yeah, it’s inconvenient. Yeah, it’s painful.
RV (04:59):
But that is the price of admission to being excellent. That is the price of admission for being great. That’s the price of admission for doing anything that matters. And so if you wanna be successful at your next thing, don’t wait to start developing the success habits until you’re doing those things. Start developing them now. And in my life, you know, there, there’s been a couple times where my life direction has abruptly changed very, and, and, and, and a couple times very unexpectedly. And I think the reason why we were able to pivot so quickly to the next thing was because we had done everything in our power to make the current thing succeed. And it’s sort of like, you know, it’s like jumping from the top of one mountain to the top of another mountain versus having like to be on the, if you’re on the, if you’re, if you’re halfway up a mountain or you’re on the bottom of a mountain, you have to like, go down that mountain and then go up the bottom of the next mountain.
RV (05:58):
But if you’re on the top of a mountain, you just jump from the top of one mountain to the top of the next, to the top of the next, you know, maybe not from top to top, but you know, near the top. And then you climb back up to the top. And this is what successful people do, right? They’re successful in everything. So don’t convince yourself, don’t lie to yourself that, oh, I would really be successful, you know, if I had a different this or that or whatever. Maybe that’s true. But, but the reality is that most of success comes down to you making that decision to be successful regardless of your circumstances. So do that now. Crush it where you are at. And that is concept right out of take the stairs, you know, from years and years ago. Hasn’t changed. Second thing, second thing that I don’t think people talk enough about when it comes to being successful, specifically at generating revenue, right?
RV (06:52):
So when specifically at, you know, building your personal brand or selling your course, or selling your keynote, or getting a promotion or, you know, let’s, let’s just say sales in general, generating revenue. I think what we don’t hear enough about is that when somebody succeeds at something, a lot of times, like most of the time it’s because they have banked up all of this trust first, right? So when, and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll use this. I think this is a great example. You know, we, we were fortunate to, to be a, a very significant part of Ed Mylet book launch in 2022. And we made a major contribution. We did a lot, we worked very closely with Ed, and we brought the best that we had to offer in terms of strategy and relationships, and you know, we did what we did. But, you know, and we helped Ed pre-sell 117,000 copies of his book.
RV (07:52):
You know, and just recently, we, we, we helped Lewis Howes and Amy Porterfield both, and, and they both became New York Times bestsellers. All in all, we’ve now helped 13 different clients become New York Times, wall Street Journal, USA to that bestsellers. But with Ed, you know, he pre-sold 117,000 copies of his book. Did we have a lot to do with it? Sure, we had a lot, we had something to do with it, right? We, we helped Ed, we helped Ed. The reality is we get far more credit than we deserve. The reality is, ed had banked up so much trust with his audience, so much reputation, right? Did some of our stuff help? I, I hope so. I like to think so. Ed is very gracious in saying that it did. But the reality is that we taught Ed the same thing. We teach all of our clients, right?
RV (08:40):
It wasn’t like we gave him some secret that we didn’t give anybody else the difference in his results, right? The difference in what Ed, ed Mylet experience was not because we did a better job with him, or because we taught him something, we don’t teach everybody else. It’s it’s case in point that what happened was it was his trust that was banked with his audience before he asked them to buy. Trust must always take place before there’s a transaction. Trust must take place before there’s a transaction. When Ed did his book launch, he had years and years of trust banked up. Now we showed up, we were lucky enough to get introduced to him. We were one part of a team of people that were all working together to support him. And we might have helped him maybe, you know, optimize efficiently the, the, the quote unquote extraction of that trust in the form of book sales.
RV (09:29):
But he was the one that banked the trust. And so when we get extraordinary results with clients, you know, I don’t think we could take, like, we cannot take all the credit for it by any means. Even when they follow our formulas, even when they use our exec stuff. And similarly, when clients don’t succeed, it’s not because of us. It’s because of them, right? We know our formulas work. They’ve worked for us. They’re working for lots of other clients, the biggest personal brands in the world, all the way down to intermediate and novice people who are just starting out getting extraordinary results. We know what we do works. The difference is you, the difference is how much are you willing? How hard are you willing to work? And how much trust have you banked with your audience? Trust must take place before there’s a transaction.
RV (10:16):
And too many people want to come out and just sell right away. Too many people wanna come out and just like, oh, I’m gonna launch something and go, I just wanna sell to a bunch of random strangers on the internet. Well, it’s not bad to do that. It’s not necessarily wrong to do that. But I think the reason that people struggle to succeed right away is because they think, oh, there’s some technique that I need to develop. There is, there’s some strategy. And if it didn’t work, it’s ’cause Oh, I got bad advice from, you know, this person or that person, or brand builders group, or this course didn’t teach me. And the reality is, is because you didn’t have enough trust banked up with your audience, you have to build trust before people are willing to buy. You have to build trust with people.
RV (10:58):
You have to add value, you have to give first. You have to help them. You have to pour into them. And so if your launch failed, it doesn’t mean you failed. It doesn’t mean you got horrible advice. It doesn’t mean that the thing that you’re doing is bad. It doesn’t mean that people won’t ever buy it. It probably means more often, it means that you’re just too early, meaning you are trying to extract revenue before you have deposited trust. So I don’t think we hear enough about that. And I think, you know, I think people like us, you know, wanna take credit because we do. We, we wanna, we wanna have a part of people’s success. We work really, really hard for it. And you know, sometimes you’re hard on yourself when you don’t succeed, or you’re hard on the people around you. And the fact of the matter is, a lot of success has to do with trust.
RV (11:48):
And trust comes from adding value to people in your life that they see you, they learn from you, they know you. You’re giving to them, you’re teaching them. And that’s why our entire content marketing strategy, right? Everything we teach, which, you know, can get very sophisticated, but it all boils down to like our entire content marketing strategy is this simple, teach everything you know, for free, but in small bite-sized chunks and all random miscellaneous order. That’s how we do our whole, our whole content strategy for podcasting, for YouTube, for social media, right? Like, I mean, we’re teaching everything we know for free, but in small bite-sized chunks, in all random order, because we, there’s two things we believe. First of all, we believe that people don’t pay for information. People pay for application. People don’t pay for information. They pay for organization, and they pay for application.
RV (12:41):
So even if you teach everything, you know, what they’re gonna hire you to do is they’re not gonna hire you for the knowledge. They’re gonna help, they’re gonna hire you to help them apply the knowledge to their own life and their own business and their own situation. But the second reason why we do that is because we’re automating trust. What are we doing here on this podcast? We’re automating trust. That’s what we’re trying to do. What are we doing on my blog? We’re, you know, rory vaden blog.com. I, I mean, I feel like I’ve given away a master’s degree in free content on my blog, like for free. Like if you actually sat and went and read all the hundreds of articles, it’s like equivalent to a master’s degree, like probably better in some ways in terms of the ability to help you generate more income for your life immediately.
RV (13:27):
And it’s all there for free because we’re automating trust. We want, we want to add value to people before we need something, right? We we’re, you know, we don’t particularly need anything. Now, what we do hope you do at some point is you, is you go to free brand call.com/podcast and you say, you know what? I like these guys. I like what they’re about. I like their style. I like their guests, I like their information, I like their knowledge, and I think they could help me take my small business to the next level. I think they could help me grow my reach, grow my revenue, increase my sales build my personal brand, build my audience, build my impact, and I wanna talk to them, right? So that’s why we do the podcast for free. That’s why we work so hard at it. We’re automating trust.
RV (14:10):
That’s what we’re trying to do. You can do the same thing. That’s what we’re doing on social automating trust, teach everything you know, for free, but in one small bite-sized chunk, in an all random miscellaneous order, all right? That accounts for a lot of your success, like more than you realize. So if your last launch failed, give yourself a break, right? Like, if your revenue’s not climbing as fast as you want it, welcome to the club, right? If your audience isn’t taking off and you’re not getting the kind of reach that you want, welcome to the club, right? That doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong, it means you’re just early on the journey. That’s it. And that leads me to the third thing. The third thing that I don’t think we hear enough about when it comes to success. I mean, you do hear about this some, but I don’t think that we index it enough.
RV (15:03):
I don’t think we appropriately weight this enough. And that is simply that you have to make a decision to stick with it, most of succeeding in the personal brand space. Okay? So if you wanna become a, a bestselling author, a world renowned speaker, if you wanna become a world renowned coach, a high paid consultant, if you wanna just make it in this space, in this business, a huge part. Like most of it, probably 80% of it, it’s just sticking around . Like, it’s just not quitting. I mean, most people just, they just quit. They quit after a, a few months. You know, a bunch of people quit after a few weeks, you know, and then a whole bunch of people will quit after a few months where they don’t see traction. You know, there’ll be some smaller group that they’ll make it, they’ll make it two years, and then it didn’t take off.
RV (15:55):
And so they give up, or you know, sometimes they have to, right? Something changes and they, they run out of, you know, money or somebody gets hurt in their life, they gotta take care of ’em, or you know, whatever, whatever. Like, there’s life situation, but they, but they ultimately, they just, they, they quit. They, they, because either they choose to or they have to, they stop pursuing the dream. And I think 80% of achieving a dream is just not giving up on it. Like 80% of you achieving your wildest dream is just not giving up on it. It’s just pursuing it is sticking with it. And, and the reason why I think this matters, especially for small business owners, especially for entrepreneurs, and especially for personal brands, but I think this, I would round this out and say that this applies to all small business owners, right?
RV (16:39):
Because this is, here’s what it means to be an entrepreneur. Like, ultimately people think what are, what’s the criteria that it takes to be a successful entrepreneur? We think, oh, we gotta have a great product, or we gotta be good at sales, or we gotta have the gift of gab. We gotta be good with people, or we gotta have, you know, good time management, or we have to have, you know, good systems or good at marketing, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. None of that. I mean, all of those things help. None of them are the predominant criteria for a success. Successful entrepreneur. You wanna know what the number one most predominant criteria for a successful entrepreneur is? I’ll tell you, I’m a hundred percent convicted that this is the number one most important criteria for being a successful entrepreneur.
RV (17:23):
You have to be willing to get kicked in the face over and over and over every day and keep coming back for more. That’s it. Like, you have to get punched, you have to get kicked, you have to get hit, you have to get beat down and be willing to come back for more. If you wanna be a successful entrepreneur, that’s the job. That’s the job. It’s not secret strategies, it’s not mentorship, it’s not this personal development book, that coaching program, the perfect product, customer experience sales. It is that it is going, what is your appetite? What is, what is your threshold for getting kicked in the face, for getting beat down, for having problem after problem, rejection after rejection, setback after setback in your personal life, your professional life, people quitting on you, losing clients, thought you had the gig and you didn’t. Getting zing with a, a tax bill from the government.
RV (18:19):
You weren’t expecting the product breaking down that you thought was perfect. The marketing thing busted. Having people run off with your money. Like it’s, it’s, and then it’s, it’s managing all that, right? While in your personal life, you have chaos going on. This is the story of our life, like in the last few weeks, right? We’ve had unexpected surgeries. We have kids throwing up in the middle of the night, someone drove into our fence, right? On accident, we, we knocked over our fence. We’ve had people bump into the car. We have had gas leaks in our house where we had to tear open the walls. We have so many things, kids writing on the walls with markers like the, the kids’ teachers getting sick, and now the kids are home. Like, all of that is normal. That’s the job, right? So you go, can you manage all of that simultaneously while getting kicked in the face simultaneously, while trying to like, make an impact in the world? That is what it takes to succeed as an entrepreneur. What is your threshold for getting beat up? What is your threshold for, for getting hit? How hard can you get hit and keep coming back for more? How many times can you be told no? How many times can someone let you down? How many times can you be taken advantage of? How, how many times do you have to fail, but, and, but you’re willing to iterate and keep coming back? That is what it takes.
RV (19:50):
That’s what it takes. So if you’re going, if you’re having a hard day, if you’re having a hard day, don’t, I, I feel for you, right? I don’t mean to be too hard on you. I know it’s freaking hard. It’s hard. And if you have kids, you have young kids, it’s freaking hard. And if you have a team and you’re managing people and you’re dealing with the gossip and the relationships and their personal life and their, you know, traveling and this and what, and they let somebody down and they didn’t show up, right? I, it’s hard. And I know you don’t have the, you don’t have as much money to hire the vendors and you hire and then you hire a vendor and they let you down, or they don’t do a good job, or they ghost on you. We had a vendor ghost on us recently. $6,000. We paid them. They disappeared. $6,000 gone disappeared. I know it’s hard.
RV (20:48):
That’s the job. Like, that’s the price of admission for success in this business, in this game of entrepreneurship, of being a small business owner, of being a world changer. Do you think things were easy for Martin Luther King Jr? Do you think things were easy for Mother Teresa? Like, do you think things are easy for the people who change the world? Like, if you wanna change the world, that’s the job. You wanna own your own business. That’s the job you wanna make. Unlimited income, that’s the job you want freedom. That’s the job. You wanna be well known. That’s the job. You wanna make more money than anyone in your family has ever made. That is the job. What is your appetite for getting kicked in the face?
RV (21:34):
I’m not saying I like it, I’m just saying that’s the job. So if today’s a hard day, welcome to the club. You’re on the right track, right? These are the things we don’t hear enough about, but they are the truth. In order for you to succeed at launching your next thing, you need to crush it. Where you’re crush it with the thing you’re doing now, crush it where you’re at. In order to succeed and make money and generate sales, you have to bank trust first. Trust must take place before a transaction. And if you’re gonna succeed as an entrepreneur, as a small business owner, as a personal brand, or as anything else, you just gotta increase your threshold for getting kicked in the face and keep coming back for more, because that’s what it takes. But if you’re here listening now, if you’re still listening by this point, if you found your way here to us and you found your way to this episode, and you’ve found your way to this moment, and you’re still here, here’s what I believe.
RV (22:50):
I believe you have what it takes. I believe you have what it takes. I believe that there’s a calling on your life to do something so big in the world that that calling will outweigh the, the, the pain that you have to go through. That, that long-term calling that purpose for your life is to make such a positive impact for other people, that you will be willing to endure the pain. So you’re on the right track. It’s okay to have hard days. Just realize that’s the job. Keep going and keep coming back for more. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand podcast.

Ep 574: Creating more Digital Organization with Shawn Lemon

RV (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well-known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. Well, earlier this morning, I spent about three hours trying to get AJ’s computer updated with patches and the most recent versions, and backing up file storage and just getting things operating. And it was a fresh reminder and ironic timing because our guest today is Shawn Lemon. Shawn is a friend of the family because he’s part of my good friend Michael Hyatt’s family. He’s married to one of Michael’s daughters, and that’s how I got to meet Shawn.
RV (01:07):
But Shawn has built an incredible business with a very specific expertise. He is the founder of the digital organizer, and so for the last 17 years, he’s been helping individuals get better at using technology. So the heart of it all is trying to keep up with how technology changes, but I would describe it as basically getting rid of your digital clutter, your digital dis if you have digital clutter, if you have digital disorganization, if you have digital chaos, if things are, if you can’t find files, they’re not named properly, you don’t know who has the most recent version, you lose the passwords. You don’t have naming conventions and syntax. All of these kinds of things that are little micro cuts of slowing you down and making your organization bleed from an efficiency perspective. Those are the kinds of things that Shawn.
New Speaker (02:01):
is an expert at talking about. And we’re gonna talk about some of them today. So, Shawn, welcome to the show, man. Good to have you.
SL (02:07):
Good to be here. Thank you so much.
RV (02:10):
This stuff frustrates me. There is nothing that makes me more angry. I don’t get angry at politics. I don’t get angry when people say mean things. I don’t get angry when someone cuts me off in traffic. I get angry when I lose time ’cause I cannot find something on my computer. I get the stupid spinny ball of death. I have to spend 30 minutes looking for something. Or something is not working, something is broken. That’s when I get furious when things are not working. So can you help us with that?
SL (02:50):
Absolutely. I would love to . I’m in the same boat and that’s why this business exists because I can get extremely irate for my own stuff. And it’s gotta be dialed in because I’m not here to work on tech. I’m here to create stuff and to help people not fight with my technology. And that’s what we’re here for. So can’t wait to talk about it.
RV (03:11):
So I was gonna ask you why does this happen? Yeah. But I think I know why it happens. Yeah. It happens because we’re all moving too fast. We’re too fast to stop and think about how to name things, where to store ’em, having a file structure, you know, and it’s just like, I just don’t have time for it. I never have time for it. And so it just gets w worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And then one day it just like explodes. Yeah. so the so how do we prevent that? Like you, you mentioned before there’s four main areas that you support people with. Yeah. Can you walk us through what those four areas are? Yeah.
SL (03:52):
So everyone has three components of their digital world. We’re only four. We’ll focus on the third one first, and then we’ll hit the fourth. And that’s communicating. I mean, we’re using our technology to communicate to create and store files. So managing assets and keeping track of tasks and projects. And all three of those things are intrinsically connected. We get an email that has a file that needs to go into file storage, but instead of putting it in file storage, you’re trying to organize your email, or we get an email that’s part of a larger project and we need that critical piece of information or that deadline. And so we leave it in our inbox instead of grabbing it and putting into project management. So we’ve got tons of overlap between them. So really we’ve chosen to focus on those three things. And then the fourth one, which gets everyone irate, which is passwords and not being able to get into an account. Oh my gosh. Or you’ve hired someone else to do something. No,
RV (04:50):
You annoyed the passwords, dude. Like 70 bazillion passwords. Yeah. They want me to update it. Don’t use the same one. It’s like, dude. Yeah. And then you use, like, we use OnePass, which is mm-hmm . Kind of good, but like, it, it’s, it’s still a pain. And then it’s like, I’m just logging now. I’m, and logging to that thing every day, adding new, add new junk to it. So Uhhuh, yep. Separate. Got it. And then the two you call passwords, the fourth, you said communicating, storing, I, I call it communicating, storing, and project management effectively.
SL (05:22):
Yep. And then passwords to, to bring it all together, because the fact is, it’s just extremely important. You can get away with using fluffy 1, 2, 3 and variations of that until you can’t. And then, like one of our clients, he had, he brought home $500,000 a year in profit from a partnership for his marketing company. The whole thing imploded because his developer was using some simple password. The account got hacked, they got into all of their client stuff and then and started buying ads with their company’s, their clients’ company, credit cards. Whoa. I mean, it is just insanity you know, to try and operate remotely with other people if you’re not using a good password manager. So that’s the piece that really kind of pulls it all together.
RV (06:08):
Okay. So where do we start with managing all this chaos? And, and I’ll speak for my audience here and say, we don’t have time to deal with this. We don’t really want to talk about this. So how can we do this efficiently?
SL (06:22):
Well, to do it the most efficiently, you can hire someone to help you . Okay.
RV (06:27):
That’s not, that’s that. I, I, that’s a good option. Many of us would like to do that. So consider, consider, consider yourself interviewing for the job .
SL (06:36):
Yeah. Okay. So really there’s a few different ways to approach this. You can go with a course, you know, the school of YouTube, you can find somebody who’s got a course. You know, I’ve got materials on this that you can buy. There’s a lot of different ways to go about it. The fact is, you know, it’s single digits of people who actually finish courses. And then you could also hire somebody to do this for you. They’re promising that they’re gonna go in, you just tell ’em what your stuff is and how you want it organized. Then they’ll go in and do it, but they’re really creating their system and not one for you. And so, almost always, those people will have to keep going back to the organizer over and over again. Or you could choose a hybrid approach where you’re working with someone to co-create.
SL (07:18):
So basically, and that’s what we do, is we’ve got our resource library, you know, basically the course and the framework that we take our people through. And then we do it together. And so, you know, we want a very systematic approach incorporating, you know, how we’re communicating how we’re storing files and task management all in our, our master plan so that we have clear demarcation lines between each one of ’em. And that’s really designing from the front end. What tools do I want to use and what part of those tools should I not be using? And I think that’s a really big part of the process, is understanding what you shouldn’t be using in some of these apps. So
RV (08:00):
Where do you start? Do you start with storage? You start with passwords? Do you start with project management system? Do you start with communicating and email inbox? Like
SL (08:09):
Where
RV (08:10):
Do you, what’s the starting point?
SL (08:12):
Most of the time, the starting point is email. Okay. Because the majority of people are drowning in email. And, and while some people recognize how much anxiety and stress it causes them, some people don’t because it’s ubiquitous. Everyone’s dealing with email overload and marketers hammering their inbox and, you know, and trying to just stay organized with that. So if we can actually start with email and calm down the noise and be really strategic about how we approach emails so that we’re not having an open all day and reacting and be more strategic, that gives us so much more time and mental energy to start strategically tackling how we’re approaching project management or how we’re even planning the work we do, and how are we going to do our folder structures and things like that. So that’s a great starting point. So
RV (09:08):
Let’s start there. So let’s dive in mm-hmm . So when you go on email. Yeah. ’cause I think that’s great. I totally agree. That makes so much sense, right? Mm-Hmm . It’s the entry point for all the chaos, and then you’re just drowning. And that’s, that’s the thing you’re trying to keep up with. You can’t keep up with.
SL (09:22):
Yep. Yep.
RV (09:23):
I, I, I like that a lot. So what are the principles that we need to know or follow mm-hmm . In building out our email strategy?
SL (09:32):
Yeah. So the first thing is you should do so much less organization and email than you think you need to. Huh? if, if I had my way, you’re not organizing any email. Email should be a communication platform. We send a message, we receive a message. Now we may send someone a file or receive a file, but it does not belong in email. We take that file, download it, and put it into our folder structure so that we can find it. When we’re looking for a file as a part of a project, we should never have to go to our email to find that it should be where we’re working on that project. And that’s where we need to store things. So it’s not necessarily we’re keeping all presentations together. It’s, are we doing a presentation for a pitch for this company and we’ve got all of their logos, the research that we’ve done for that, et cetera.
SL (10:25):
Well, the file for that presentation goes together. So stop organizing in email. We, you can use some automation tools. I like Sandbox and Sandbox allows me to create a couple of folders. I only use two smart folders later for newsletters that I truly read. And if I find that I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been deleting a few newsletters, it’s time to unsubscribe. And then I got another folder for financial and shipping. And why I like using this tool is when I get an email from Amazon, I drop it into financial and, and Sandbox will make sure that anything sent from that specific address gets to my receipts folder or my financial folder. So everything skips my inbox, and I have a focused inbox that just has communication from people by ruthlessly, unsubscribing, getting rid of these newsletters, coupons, and lists that you’re on. We’ll really help. And then we can start filter out other things that we need that really shouldn’t hit the inbox that we do want to keep. And then we start triaging. So that’s really the starting point. And then you can go deeper into how do you approach processing the emails from real people?
RV (11:38):
Love that. I, I, I will tell you, you know, I’ve, I’ve hired so many assistants over the years Yeah. And every new one comes with a new way to want to organize the inbox. Yep. And I have always pushed back on it because I’m like mm-hmm . I don’t have time to read my main inbox, let alone go read 76 sub inboxes. Yep. Yep. So I love that. Mm-Hmm . So ruthlessly, ruthlessly unsubscribe. Yep. First and foremost. Mm-Hmm . Are you just doing those one at a time or are you using like roll up or a tool like, you know,
SL (12:13):
To, to We wanna do it manually. We do it manually if possible. We want to do it mainly if we get pushback from that. Sandbox has a feature called the Black Hole. And anything that you put in that folder from that sender, they’re automatically gonna be put in black hole marked as red and it purges itself after seven days automatically. Mm-Hmm. So if you don’t want to go through the trouble of unsubscribing, stick ’em in the black hole, that’ll take care of it for you. And I, my preference would be to manually unsubscribe, because you don’t know how many lists that that company has added you to. It might be 20 different lists. If you, you know, sign up for under buy something from Under Armour, you’re gonna be on 10 different, 10 different brands lists that could be 50 subscriptions just from one simple signup. So if we go in and unsubscribe it, then we know we’re not gonna get it into a future. And if I want to get rid of Sandbox later I can get rid of it and my inbox isn’t gonna be overflowed.
RV (13:10):
Yeah. There’s also something, there’s a mental purging that happens there where you go, I’m, it does, I’m deliberately choosing, I don’t want this to come into my world anymore. I think that’s powerful. Mm-Hmm . So I love that. What’s step two when you get your inbox down to, all right, it’s only communication. Mm-Hmm . I hear you saying, get files out of the get get fi get get, get newsletters outta there, get coupons outta there, get basically get files out of there. Mm-Hmm . Then what happens next?
SL (13:42):
So we want to get rid of things that are older than 30 days. So if you got 20,000 emails in your inbox, what are they doing there? Like, they shouldn’t be there anymore to They’re
RV (13:52):
Storage. That’s what they’re doing. Like, I, I could answer that question. Yeah. They’re, we’re storing things there that are like old emails of like, I might need this one day. Right.
SL (14:00):
Right. And that’s fine. You can keep it, it just doesn’t belong in the inbox anymore. Like Gmail, when you hit archive, it just takes it outta the inbox, but it’s still searchable and you’re not gonna browse through 20,000 emails. So why leave it in the inbox? Let’s clear it out. So and if you sign up for this file organization guide that I’m gonna tell you about at the end, I’m gonna send you a couple of videos on how to actually do the purging, unsubscribing, and setting up sandbox. So all of this stuff that I’m talking about, I’m gonna send you videos of how to actually do this practically. So you don’t have to memorize this process from the podcast, but we want to get rid of those everything older than 30 days. We need to purge the newsletters. And 30 days is a good starting point.
SL (14:44):
And then you keep up with it from there. And then after that, let’s archive the things that are taken care of. Let’s delete what we never need to see again. And now what we’re left with are things that we need to deal with. And it’s time to take a look at how do we do these tasks? Like what are we getting and when should we be doing them? Because we’ve got stuff that needs to be dealt with right away. We have things that need to be dealt with. Just we maybe a group them together ’cause we have a number of bills to pay, for example. Well, maybe we can snooze all of those for Thursday morning when we have time set aside to do that. Yes. And then we’ve got items that are part of a larger project that shouldn’t really belong and, and email anymore. Let’s get, let’s copy the information, let’s put it into Asana where we’re keeping track of those tasks so that I can archive the email and move on and have the information that I need when that task comes up for a due date in my project management system.
RV (15:43):
Okay. So I love this because that’s, that’s the other reason why items are in the inbox, is I’m using it as my to-do list. Yep. Right. So I’m going, crap, I need that email. ’cause That’s, that’s my reminder to do. Mm-Hmm. The thing, and you’re saying if you’re doing that, you should maybe not do that. You should take that out of there and put that onto your task management or project management management system mm-hmm . And, and to get it over there, now you still have to deal with it. Right. It doesn’t still have to do with magically make it go away. Right. And on the, there’s a part of me that goes, well now I’m just looking in two places instead of one. So Right. How is that more efficient?
SL (16:26):
Yeah. How do you, and when do you do one versus the other? Right. Right.
RV (16:28):
Yeah.
SL (16:29):
Yeah. So if, if it’s a communication thing and that you just, you need information to come back at a certain point, something along those lines. I like to snooze emails. I don’t wanna put it all in Asana to check Asana to then go back an email. So I will snooze an email to pop back up at the time that I have set aside to actually do that thing. And if I snooze it multiple times, then that’s a trigger for me of, okay, am I actually going to do this? Do I need to knuckle down or do I just need to say, Hey, this isn’t getting done, I’m sorry. Or just, you know, delete it and move on and let go of the thing. So if it has to do with communication and it’s not really part of a larger project, I don’t want you to have to store that somewhere else just to come back to email, snooze it for the time that either later in the day or or for next week or even next month. Or if you, you know, said, Hey, I need to hear back by Thursday, you know, at three and it’s Thursday at at noon and you haven’t gotten, you know, you wanna give them some time. Maybe it comes back Thursday at noon in your inbox to let you know, Hey, the deadline’s coming. You might wanna ping them one more time.
RV (17:43):
Okay. So now I’m moving files. We’re getting rid of spam stuff. Mm-Hmm . We’re moving files to storage, we’re moving tasks to project management. Mm-Hmm . So now my inbox we’re even using, we’re even moving old emails to storage because it’s like, if it’s just for reference, then get it out of the inbox and store it, get it
SL (18:05):
Out of the inbox. It’s still, still still searchable in email. ’cause That’s really where you’re gonna wanna look. You need to leave them there. We’re not gonna turn emails into files.
RV (18:14):
Is okay. So then are we kind of done with the inbox? Like does that kind of go pretty much now, now everything that makes sense to me. So now everything is sort of where it belongs.
SL (18:29):
Yeah.
RV (18:30):
My new problem is now I have, what was a hundred emails. I now have 76 tasks to complete in my, in my project management tool. And is, would you consider calendar calendaring as part of project management? Or how do those overlap?
SL (18:47):
Yeah, so a lot of people want to say incorporate their project management into their calendar. So if they create a task there, then it shows up on their calendar. Or they’ll use their calendar for task management to, to show them what items they’re supposed to be doing. I like to chunk it and say, this is the time for this type of work on Thursday mornings. And so then I open up Asana and I’m looking at either that project that I know I’m supposed to be working on, or I’m looking at my, my tasks for the day to start knocking out things that are really all, all scheduled for that day. So I’ve got the time set aside for it. So my calendar tells me where I’m supposed to be working, and then I’m primarily working in Asana to process that stuff. And maybe I’m doing some documenting. Maybe I am gonna send a quick email or something along those lines. But that’s the place where that’s really directing the work for that period of time.
RV (19:45):
Okay. So you’re using, you’re using your project management tool in your case, Asana mm-hmm
RV (19:51):
As your to-do list and the like to direct your work every day.
SL (19:55):
Yeah. Yeah. And I clear out my inbox and get to inbox zero by snoozing because it’s just not practical for us to deal with every single message as they come in. And we can’t answer every email in a day, every single day. So snoozing has to happen for when we actually have the information. It’s
RV (20:16):
Just funny ’cause when you’re saying workload is snoozing mm-hmm . The, the title of my second book was Procrastinate on Purpose. Like the whole book is about is is about the discipline to deliberately push something off on purpose. And then you’re Yeah. You’re just saying, you just, you’re just kicking it out. So, but it’s still out there, it’s still, it’s gonna cycle back around. It’s gonna flow back around to you. But you’re, you, the, so the purpose of doing it is just to clear up space for the actual priorities to sit uncluttered in and amongst the stuff that’s like, you’re just kicking it out,
SL (20:51):
Right? Because if you are caught in a, in a dopamine loop of email of you’re sitting there, you’re solving problems, you’re answering things, then you find yourself kind of chained to email and that’s what makes you actually feel productive. And then it makes, and because the email is a to-do list and there’s constantly things coming in, then you stay in that spot. And it’s hard to let it go and truly focus on the important thing that needs to get done that you’ve been procrastinating on if we’ve got this big list. But if you go in and clear those things out, because it’s really not, not necessary to do this item right now, and I have more important things to do, and you snooze it, it’s not in your view anymore and it’s a heck of a lot easier to go move on and do the things that are actually important to you.
SL (21:45):
And yeah. And if you snooze things multiple times and you don’t get it done, you pr procrastinate multiple times and it’s not done, then that’s your red flag. Should you even be doing it in the first place. This is in my drudgery zone. I need to delegate this because I just don’t want to do it. Or I need to stop doing this task. So
RV (22:02):
Talk to me about project management. This is good. This is good. Good. Shawn I’m follow, I’m following you so far when I get into the project management mm-hmm
RV (22:14):
How do you think about an approach that list? ’cause Now you just, you have a list. Is, is there, is there anything big there that changes in our thinking about how we tackle the projects or how we organize them or label them or name them or code them or like mm-hmm . Anything related to like tips on, you know, tackling the projects? Yeah.
SL (22:35):
Yeah. So I would say the biggest mistake that most people make when doing project management is they do big list dumps and they get this new app and they take all of the things that they think that they need to do and consolidate a bunch of lists and just create this massive task dump. And it feels really good and you get a massive sense of satisfaction for it and can, can start some momentum, but then it’s just this big dumping ground of a lot of possibilities and things that really aren’t strategically placed there. So I like to kind of flip this around and say, I actually wanna do my list dump in a document and I’ll call this the back burner list. And that’s actually what ours is called. It’s a Google doc called Back Burner. And so it’s very easy to search and pull up and that’s all of the things that I would like to do and that need to get done and everything in between.
SL (23:33):
And then we strategically look at that list quarterly. And sometimes when we finish something early, then we go back to the, to the the back burner list and we decide what is the most important thing that needs to get done. And we turn those into projects and build out our system and our schedule around what we really, truly intentionally need to get done. And that creates so much more focus in your project management tools so that you’re not exposed to a lot of other things. And and that alone can really help create a lot more focus and make project management less overwhelming.
RV (24:15):
Okay. So you’re, if you’re using your project management tool, you’re, it’s like you’re only using your project management tool to, to have tasks that are related to big projects, not just random one-off tasks.
SL (24:26):
So you use it. And well, also recurring things too, like your taxes, you got quarterly taxes due multiples at the beginning of the year, you know, different deadlines for that. That happens recurring. So we gotta, we’ll factor that into, there’s recurring stuff and then there are also projects.
RV (24:43):
Okay. And then what about, so you’ve got recurring things and projects on there mm-hmm . What about just like the one-off tasks that come up that are like, you know, whatever I need to RSVP for a birthday party or you know, that, do you just use a to-do list for daily sort of independent items that are not connected to a project?
SL (25:09):
Yeah. So it really depends. I kind of a approach those individually on where it’s at. So if I got the RSVP in my inbox, so if they emailed me an an R rsvp, it’s quick enough
RV (25:21):
To just do it.
SL (25:23):
It’s quicker to do it. Or we’ll say, well add a complication, I gotta check my wife’s schedule first and we need to discuss if we even can go in the first place and who’s gonna watch our child and, you know, all of those other things. So I can’t RSVP right now. Well, what do I do? I, I tell my phone, remind me at six 30 to talk to Madeline about the birthday party. And then I snooze that email for tomorrow morning so we can have the discussion tonight, come to a conclusion, and then tomorrow when I open up my email, then I can go ahead and RSVP for that. So I’m gonna snooze that for tomorrow and it’s gonna pop back in at you know, at 9:00 AM.
RV (26:01):
Gotcha. anything else in the project management space? I mean, is it basically like blocking time to get stuff done? A
SL (26:09):
Lot of it’s blocking time, but another huge mistake people make are they create tasks out of projects. So they think, oh, you know, put the Christmas lights up is a project or it’s a task, you know, and that’s just one thing. Well, like if you just moved into a new house, putting the Christmas lights up is not a single task. You gotta figure out a lot of stuff. Do you have everything? There’s a, a number of pieces involved in that. So, so often we really need to break down a task and think, what are all of the steps that I need to take in order to complete this task? And you might find you’ve actually got a project on your hands. There’s a lot going on in this. And so by creating a task that’s impossible to get done in one sitting, it really sets you up for failure because you’re like, God, I didn’t, I didn’t even make any progress on my to-do list because you couldn’t check that item off. We need to break things up into bite-sized chunks with due dates attached to them so that when we actually make progress on it, we can check it off and get that sense of accomplishment and see I am moving in the right direction. And that can really help to create a lot more momentum instead of feeling like you’re never making progress.
RV (27:34):
So I, I like that. What’s the difference between a task and a project?
SL (27:41):
A project is a whole lot of tasks.
RV (27:44):
Yeah. And, and just, just like, basically if it’s more than five or something, then it’s really a project.
SL (27:50):
Yeah. And you can use a milestone or, or really, so Asana is broken up into, I like Asana ’cause it’s on Rails versus Clickup. It’s, you know, it’s totally loosey goosey. It’s choose your own adventure and you create it. So if you really know what you want, that’s a great platform. So Asana’s broken up in teams and then teams have projects, then projects have milestones and then tasks or sections, milestones, tasks, and then subtasks. So if your project is huge, that’s why project management is really different than task management. You’ve got a lot more layers to it to be able to manage all of it. So if I’ve got a task that has five things to that go along with it, then I might just create five subtasks. So create the tasks and then add the subtask of that’s gonna consist of these five actions. But if they’re all being done on different days, I’d rather them not be subtasks. I’d rather them actually be tasks. Just visually it’s different. And I wish I could show
RV (28:59):
You, but you’re saying projects, so teams, projects, sections, milestones, tasks and subtasks.
SL (29:04):
Yep.
RV (29:05):
Gotcha. Mm-hmm . Here’s a question for you.
SL (29:09):
Yep.
RV (29:12):
In a, in bird’s eye, bird’s eye view of a week
SL (29:16):
Mm-Hmm .
RV (29:17):
How much time should I be spending in meetings versus communicating versus doing work versus like, you know, and then, you know, marginal time to like place wherever. ’cause ’cause I’ve, I’ve realized it’s just like it takes time to answer an inbox. It takes time. Mm-Hmm . To schedule stuff and a project management tool, it takes time to like name files. File storage is something that like, I’m, I’m amazed at how much time I lose. Just, you know, after this interview I’ve gotta upload the file, I’ve gotta name it mm-hmm . I’ve gotta, you know, either notify people or I need to set up a workflow that notifies people, like mm-hmm . And it’s, it, otherwise the file disappears and it’s lost forever and we never have it like mm-hmm
SL (30:15):
.
RV (30:16):
Any thoughts high level on that? Or like for a of a, of a week, how much, is there like a limit or rule to how many meetings you should be in? Or do you not really do it that way? You just kind of let your inbox drive to your project management, which drives to your tasks?
SL (30:31):
It’s more intentional, but there’s no rules. So each person has to approach this from a, a little bit differently because we all have different roles and sometimes those roles fluctuate and we are having more what Michael Hyatt would describe front stage work, meaning actually like this would be front stage work. We’re both having a conversation for the public. This is, this is part of what we do of delivering our stuff. And, and then we’ve got backstage work, which would be downloading the file, renaming it, doing all of those things. So there are times where we are doing more front stage work or our role requires that of us and then more backstage. And then we also have off stage work, which would be free time, time with family re recharge and things like that. So kind of thinking of it from the high level of do I have enough backstage work to support me for, to do my front stage?
SL (31:39):
‘Cause We can’t just only do meetings and never have any processing time. So it’s just recognizing what your needs are. And this is what’s really nice about having an ideal week where you take a look at your calendar and say, ideally I wanna spend Monday catching up, planning, doing administrative work, and really setting me up for the week. And if I need to, I can slip some meetings in, in the second half of Monday, but the be, but the first half of Monday is sacred and I’m not letting anyone in on that. So that’s all backstage work. Whereas Tuesday and Thursday and then the second half of Friday, I just need a lot of time for meetings. Right now my job is podcasts, sales calls, and occasionally some really technical work. So I need to make sure that there’s plenty of time for that. But then I still have other administrative stuff.
SL (32:35):
So that’s where in the middle of the week, Wednesday is primarily deep work, really trying to make a lot of progress on projects and I’m trying to protect that from meetings. And then Friday morning, kind of same thing, get focused before wrapping up at the end of the day. And maybe I’ve got some meetings on the second half so you can see I’m chunking and having kind of overarching ideas of when I’m doing things. And then that can flex as needed. But I have kind of a starting point of plenty of time for front stage, plenty of time for backstage, and I will flex those as needed.
RV (33:15):
Mm-Hmm . Roger that. I wanna ask you about file storage and, but yeah, just before I let you go mm-hmm . The tips keys to file storage mm-hmm . What are things that we’re doing wrong that, you know, we, we we need to stop doing there?
SL (33:37):
Yeah. Okay. So when we’re in business, there are certain things that you really do not want to cheap out on. And that’s gonna be business file storage. Mm-Hmm. So when we’re working in Google accounts you know, you can bootstrap with Google Drive in, in a Gmail account, but as soon as possible you’ve got to get set up with Google Workspace. Or if you’re a big Dropbox user, you need to get on Dropbox business When you start collaborating with other people, because these business subscriptions give us a different type of folder. We’ll take Google Drive for example, in Google Drive, we have my drive and that’s how everything started where I can create a folder and Rory, I can invite you to my folder so that we can collaborate anything that you put in my folder, you still own. So if you decide you’re done with this account, maybe you were freelancing for me and you were doing this same thing and you created a Gmail specifically for that freelancing gig, you delivered your stuff to me and you decide this isn’t for me anymore, and you delete that Google account, it deletes all of the files you created for me and put in my folder from my folder because you don’t own it.
RV (34:53):
You lost me.
SL (34:54):
Okay. You lost
RV (34:55):
Me. You’re, you’re basically, you’re saying if you’re using personal accounts to do business, then who, if you hire like a
SL (35:02):
Vendor, whoever created the folder or whoever created the file owns it. Not wheres it at, but who created it? Owns the file.
RV (35:13):
Gotcha.
SL (35:14):
So you hire someone from the Philippines to start creating documents for you, managing different things, creating some spreadsheets, keeping track of all of this stuff, and then they don’t work for you anymore and you’re not using the right folder and they delete their account. Everything they created for you goes, bye bye.
RV (35:31):
Yeah. That’s happened to me. It happened with about 165 blog videos that I recorded that we turned into blog posts. Okay. And they just literally vanished out of Dropbox on, and everyone’s like, where did they go? Yeah. How come we don’t have them? It was this exact thing. There was a overseas VA that was handling stuff and apparently they, you know, cleaned out their Dropbox to save money on their account or whatever. And I mean, is that what you’re talking about? Where basically Exactly.
SL (36:05):
They,
RV (36:05):
They, they had, they had, they had, that’s
SL (36:07):
Exactly it. And how much money, how much time, like all of those resources. And this is because we didn’t upgrade to business and or we didn’t use the right type of folder. If you use Dropbox for business and you created a team folder and invited that VA to the team folder, anything that they put in your folder you own. And on Google it’s called shared drive. So we have to be on the level that as of today is $14 a month, or T 12 or 1440 depending on if you’re paying yearly. And
RV (36:40):
When you say own it,
SL (36:41):
You’re saying able to get access, full
RV (36:43):
Access to it. They can’t delete it because it’s your business folder.
SL (36:47):
Well, what happens is, but it’s not
RV (36:48):
Like IP ownership or is it both? Yeah.
SL (36:51):
Or it’s, it’s file ownership, not ip. Okay. So it’s just purely technical. Right. So the
RV (36:58):
First, right. But it’s like what good is IP ownership? If you hire a graphic designer to hire file and you own the ip, but then they delete the file because Exactly. You don’t have the file. It’s like, oh, I own IP on something that doesn’t exist. Yeah.
SL (37:08):
Yeah. So if you use the right folder, they put the file in your folder, ownership transfers to you mm-hmm . So when you delete that person from the folder because your engagement is over, then they are fully out of your stuff and you still own everything and have control over it. And if you’re not using the right folders, you don’t get those options.
RV (37:31):
Yeah. And so you’re saying that’s called Dropbox Business. If you use Dropbox or Google
SL (37:37):
Shared drives in Google workspace, shared drives instead of my drive. So a lot of people confuse those ’cause they think, oh, I shared that folder with someone else. It’s a shared folder, but it’s not a technical shared drive. And then, you know, and then we can choose what level of permissions this VA has, can they add but they can’t delete. So we get to set those permissions,
RV (37:59):
Uhhuh, . And if they, if they leave or you remove them, you still have access to all the files that were in that folder versus if they started a personal folder, they share the folder, you have access to it while it’s there, but then when they leave, the folder follows them. Mm-Hmm .
SL (38:18):
So you’d have to download all of that stuff and then put it into your drive so that you actually maintain ownership. So when working with somebody, you wanna create the folder. And this is where you’ve said you’ve hired multiple VAs over the years and they all had their own systems. That’s why it’s important for us to create our own system. I’ve got somebody in another country dealing with, or you know, handling all of my social media, creating stuff for me, all of the rest. But I said, when you work with me, you’re not gonna create a folder. I’m going to create a folder for you and I’m gonna send you a video of how I want you to use it. This is where you’re gonna put posts in that you’ve created for my approval. You let me know. And then I put it in a folder called approved posts, approved reels. Or I comment on it to say, you need to change this. You missed the point, change the graphic, whatever it is that gets done. And then I can move it into approved. So I’m creating the system and they can use whatever Gmail account they want. And I maintain all control.
RV (39:21):
Mm-Hmm . Yeah. Yeah. That’s powerful. I’ve never understood that until this very moment what the conceptual difference is. It’s so confu like, it’s not,
SL (39:35):
It is,
RV (39:36):
They don’t make that ridiculously clear. At least
SL (39:39):
It’s no. And the thing is,
RV (39:40):
They haven’t made it idiot proof enough for me to figure out the difference between like a shared folder and a shared drive. Like that’s a big deal. That’s a really big deal.
SL (39:48):
This is the frog in the pot, you know, all of this technology is, is we’re building the plane while we’re flying it. So Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive, all of these services started as consumer products and then these problems appeared and then they created business level subscriptions and started solving the problems. But are they marketing? This is what you need to do and here’s the technical answer and all this stuff. No, they’re just pitching the solution, trying to get the next subscription, not choosing to educate the
RV (40:21):
People on how this works when they’re, you wanna pay $99 a month to be able to share your folders. I’m like, I already can share my folders. I don’t think I wanna pay $99 a month. Right.
SL (40:30):
Right.
RV (40:31):
And then all your files disappear one day and you go, what happened to my files? Those were my file. Mm-Hmm. Like yeah. Anything real quick on passwords?
SL (40:43):
Yeah. So use a password manager. I love one password. You gotta set it up fully. Yeah.
RV (40:50):
It’s not set up fully.
SL (40:52):
You gotta set it up fully. You know, when you set it up on your iPhone, you install the app, you gotta inst you gotta go into the password section and, and turn that on. You want to turn off Safari so those aren’t competing, then you need to turn the extension on. In Safari you have three distinct things that you need to make sure that you get done on every iPhone that’s logging into that account or or iPad. You know, the Mac, you gotta set up the extension on all of your browsers so that it really works. And then in Safari you gotta tell it turn off Safari Auto Save. So those two aren’t competing. Chrome just does it automatically, but for some reason they don’t with Safari. So it’s those sorts of considerations we really need to put in place is when you do the password management, you gotta go all the way and then it’s phenomenal. And nobody has to bug me for two step verification text messages ever because I integrate that two step login into the login itself in one password. So if I’m sharing the password with you, you also have the two step verification code that’s automatically generating in that login. So that completely solves the problem.
RV (42:02):
So you’re saying you can share the two step validate validation code
SL (42:07):
Part mm-hmm . Yep. You can integrate that into that saved item.
RV (42:13):
Hmm. That’s pretty cool if you have other people logging into certain accounts.
SL (42:17):
Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. ’cause You want your social media accounts super locked down. I think Shalene Johnson had her Instagram account hacked. They started posting hardcore porn on her account. She lost a third of her audience, cost her quarter million dollars, all in all to get everything under control, do all of this stuff, and then had to rebuild her following again, because of a stupid account password being hacked. We cannot afford to not use strong passwords on our social media accounts. Especially if you have an influential personal brand, you need a strong password and you need two step verification set up.
RV (42:56):
Uhhuh. Yeah. I got a call this week from a client who had their Instagram hacked. It’s the second, second time this year. We’ve had a client that was like, my Instagram account is gone, like, just disappear. Oh my. Because someone hacked the password. Yeah. what they really do is they hack into your email and then they email the password and then they get it and then they reset your password and they lock you out. And then they hold you ransom for your, your your, yeah. It’s terrible.
SL (43:24):
There’s like 30, I think it’s 34% of ex-employees have the login accounts for their previous employers, even after they’ve left the company because they’re sharing this spreadsheet with variations of fluffy 1, 2, 3 for all of their accounts. And then sharing that in amongst the company and someone leaves, they just know what that password is.
RV (43:49):
Yeah. Yeah. So to go all the way, you’re saying you need to download the app on your phone, you need to install the extensions on the browsers, and then you need to go into your phone settings and disable safari and turn on the, somewhere in the security settings of the phone.
SL (44:11):
Yeah. And you, you should also import the lists. So Chrome’s probably been saved in login. Safari’s been saved in logins. You can export that list and import it into one password. It is very easy to do. They have guides to do the whole thing and they’ve made it very simple and then clean up the logins and, and go through it from there. So it’s not really tough to to get things up and going. You just wanna approach it as a project set time aside to do it and make it happen.
RV (44:39):
Mm-Hmm . Wow. this is good stuff, Shawn. I mean, it’s, it’s really important and a lot of this stuff too is just like, man, you gotta take the time on the front end. But it saves, it saves so much time long term.
SL (44:54):
It’s truly the, the ROI is massive, but it’s just, it’s those tiny little minutes and the frustrations and the things that we don’t think about. This creates capacity for you. It’s not generating revenue, but it creates more capacity you know, more creativity, all of the different things and in a better working environment. Just, it’s like if we were to make our digital workplaces physical, you would never tolerate that. You know? And that’s what people are, are struggling in and dealing with day in and day out. They’re working in a super messy house. It’s hard to get things done. It’s not very fun. And and so if we can make that super easy, approach it as a project, yeah. It’s gonna take you some time to do maybe some money to get some help to, to get it done. But when you do, I mean, it’s just so nice having this dealt with.
RV (45:45):
Hmm. Brother, where should people go to learn more about you and what you’re up to? Yeah.
SL (45:51):
The best thing to do is go to the digital organizer.com/ipb. This is the infin influential personal brand podcast ipb. So go to the digital organizer.com/ipb and you can download my file organization guide. So if you want to get your files organized, you want to consolidate things from a bunch of different areas, I’ve got a step-by-step process to take you through it with videos, examples of the whole thing. When you do that, you get added to my newsletter and I’m gonna send you a few emails of getting your email organized and other things like that. So there’s a whole path for you to go down and I’m gonna give you so many resources you know, just on the front end. And then if you wanna stick along for the newsletter we’d love to see you there and you can reach out. If you wanna talk to me, you know, you can have a discovery call with me.
RV (46:39):
Really Cool. We’ll put that link in the show notes. Of course. So you can hit those. Check out, Shaw. n go find him on social and leave him a comment if you’re listening so that he knows you’re there and say hello and thanks. So generous Shawn. Really, really helpful. And my friend, we just, we continue to wish you all the best and I’m sure we’ll, we’ll talk to you again soon.
SL (47:01):
Same to you. Thanks so much.