Ep 351: Finding Your Purpose in the Power of Service | Micheal Burt Episode Recap
RV (00:02):
Well, I loved that conversation with Coach Burt. In fact, I enjoyed it a lot more than I anticipated. Not that I, I didn’t think necessarily. I would, I just really, really enjoyed it. And if you haven’t listened to it, go back and listen to it. But the whole conversation is around activating your prey drive, like your, your P r e y prey drive, like the instinctive ability to pursue. And, you know at first when he was talking about the, you know, he teaches people how to do that, I was like, well, that’s interesting. Like that, that, you know, what’s that gonna be? And then as he talked out, these five activators, I, I, you know, they’re very simple, but very not so obvi, you know, it’s like the not so obvious truth and, and really, really powerful. So I loved it.
RV (00:51):
And it, part of my inspiration as I look back on that conversation and think about, you know, what other, what, what in, what have I learned? What did I learn from it? And then also, how am I sort of internalizing that conversation, which is always what we do with these recaps is thinking about how am I internalizing this? How am I applying it to my own life? And then what would I add to it in terms of clarifying, you know, the message or just kind of like speaking, speaking you know, my own insight in, in, into it, in my response. And I, I, you know, so as, as coach was talking, I love the, you know, just the activating the active nature of everything he’s saying in these, you know, these five activators in terms of overcoming complacency and, and fear and competition and environment.
RV (01:43):
Really, really good. Really, really good. Y you know, the thing that I wanted to kind of talk with you about and share with you is a little bit of some of, I guess the evolution of my motivation in, in my life and, and talking about finding, you know, power and motivation and purpose and how that’s evolved for me. And, and I think early in my career, you know, I was very driven, very ambitious, very focused on this you know, this, I would, I would call it pray drive. Like, I don’t know that I would’ve had a word for it before this interview, but I love what coach is saying is, you know, is activating this like hunger in this passion for conquering and, and, and achieving and pushing yourself to the limits. And I, I really do think that a lot of champions have that, and they figure out a way to do it.
RV (02:42):
And so that’s, there’s so much value in it. What’s interesting is that, well, once I got to you know, once I got married, and especially once I have had become a father you know, and, and maybe just from the result of maturing, hopefully a little bit or, or maybe just having a deeper faith walk, I think today, and, and, and in the last several years, I would maybe say like maybe the last, yeah, probably like the last 10 years, I would say it’s the last 10 years. I have really shifted and found my source of power and my source of motivation in a, from being focused on service. And this didn’t come up so much in, in the conversation. I don’t, I don’t think that it, it disrupts or dilutes anything that coach said, but I think it is, it is something in my own life that has been a, a, a different level of prey drive for me of just going what I do now.
RV (03:50):
What drives me now is, is not the pursuit of achievement for myself. It’s actually, it is actually finding meaning and value in my life and finding purpose in my life. And, you know, the most, the most powerful part of the whole interview, there were several highlights, but the most powerful part of the whole interview for me was at the very end when he said that his mom had been a nurse her whole life, her whole life. And, and she boiled it down to, there’s, there’s three, there’s three reasons people die. First of all, they run out of money. And so when they run outta money, they can’t afford good healthcare. The second is they run out of love, which, you know, their family forgets about ’em, and, and you know, that’s sad. Or they lose all their friends. That’s a really, really sad one. But then the third one she said is they run out of purpose and they don’t have something to get up and pursue.
RV (04:55):
And that really hit me hard, because that to me is the one that is the most avoidable of these three, right? Like, running out of money you know, some of that’s sort a matter of how long you live and how much money you’ve saved and how well you saved. And you know, but money runs out when it runs out, so to speak. And then running out of love, you know, in, in some ways I think that’s, that’s outside of your control. You know, you can’t force people to love you, but running out of purpose and having your purpose go ec be go extinguished to me is heartbreaking. And, and it, and it, and it is, it is defeating. It is. I can see why that would lead to, to, to death because it’s like, why am I living? Living is hard. Living takes work. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s time, it’s energy, it’s it’s pain, it’s setbacks. Like, there’s a lot of hard parts of just being alive. But the other part that makes me sad about that is going not only
RV (05:56):
Is one to me controllable, which is what I’m gonna talk to you about, is going, how is, how is it controllable? How does it become controllable in your life to never run out of purpose, to never have your purpose go e extinct. That’s what we’re gonna talk about here in this, in, in this recap, in this little addition. Because I believe there is a way that it would never go extinct. And the other thing is that if you do this, if you have this kind of purpose, you won’t run out of love. And I don’t think you’ll run out of money either. And here’s the big light bulb that came on for me, was that anytime I were in per I’m in pursuit of achieving things for myself it, it, it’s, it’s sort of self-centered, right? It’s a new title, it’s a new, it’s a new, you know, a possession.
RV (06:45):
It’s a, it’s a, it is yeah, it’s like a, a title I’m pursuing. It’s a trophy. It’s something like that, which I don’t think at all, nothing wrong with this, super valuable and, you know, change the course of my life. But what I noticed is that every time I would achieve one of those things, you know, it would wear off. And it was like, okay, now I need to push myself to the next level and the next level, which again, I don’t think is bad. I think, I think that is something that the world’s ultra performers do. I think coaches spot on. And I think, you know, we have had the privilege of coaching four billionaires, by the way. I’ve, I’ve personally worked with four billionaires in the last like 18 months. And so I’ve been around a lot of these people, and, and they do have a, a, a tremendous drive.
RV (07:29):
But of whatever the thing is, it’s like you need a new thing. You need a new goal. You need a new destination. You need a new target. You need a new timeline. You need to new title. You need, you need a new thing to go after to chase, to pursue, to sort of keep that going, which I don’t think is bad or wrong or, or even unhealthy. But the thing that I have found that I can pursue, that never goes away, that never becomes extinct, that never loses its power, that never disappears, never dissipates, never dilutes and, and it never, it never disappears, is serving other people, helping other people. And I don’t just mean this in like an altruistic sense or like some type of a spiritual sense. I also mean it in a, in a literal scientific, practical, pragmatic, even a self-centered sense.
RV (08:33):
You could even take it as far as that to go, that when I am focused on serving other people, it gives me something to pursue that never goes away. It, it, it gives me something that I, I, it’s a destination that I never fully reach. And it’s a, it’s, it’s a flame that never burns out. And, and the reason this is powerful is because it gives our life meaning, if I am just achieving for myself, if I’m just pursuing for myself, if I’m just conquering for myself, if I’m just acquiring for myself, there’s nothing bad or wrong with that. But what I’ve noticed is, is it doesn’t have the same level of meaning that if I am dedicating my life in the service of other people, because our lives have meaning in the context of other people, if I’m pursuing a goal, my life has, you know, meaning in the context of that goal.
RV (09:33):
But when that goal is achieved or not achieved, the meaning sort of is attached to it. But when I am, I am serving another person, or focused on serving people, my life always has meaning. Why? Because there’s never an end. There’s always people who need help. So when she said people die because they run out of purpose, that’s terrifying, and heartbreaking and sad and unnecessary, because if your purpose is caught up in serving other people, you’ll never run out of purpose. Because there’s always somebody who’s out there who needs your help. There’s always somebody who’s hurting. There’s always someone who’s broken. There’s always somebody who’s going through pain. There’s somebody who’s in a setback. There’s somebody who is, is in the, is the middle of devastation in crisis and, and temptation and indulgence and, and, and just, just pain. There’s always somebody out there, or a struggle or somebody who is trying to achieve something.
RV (10:33):
But, but there’s always somebody there. And so I should never run out of purpose because there’s, there’s never a finish line to the needs of this world that other people have. And I think that, I think that one of the things that we do that I would say is wrong, is people go searching for the pursuit of happiness, and they go searching for things and, you know, material possessions and titles and relationships, and, you know, job positions and, and homes and vacations and whatever. We go per that, we go in pursuit of these things that we think will bring us happiness. And again, there’s not anything wrong with those things. The part that I think is wrong is I think that we are wrong about where happiness comes from. I think we’re what we’re wrong. What we’re mistaken about is about what actually brings true happiness, true joy, true satisfaction, true fulfillment, true peace, and true power. What brings those things is not acquiring, it’s not achieving, it’s serving, it’s helping, it’s adding value. In other words, don’t ask, what is my purpose? Ask, who can I serve? Right? Don’t ask like, what should my next goal be? Ask, how can I be of value to somebody? How can I contribute to their life? How can I make their life better? And what is amazing about that is it is this, this infinite and invincible form of power, because when I am achieving, there are wins and there are losses.
RV (12:34):
But when I am serving, there are only wins. There are only wins You cannot lose when you’re serving someone else. And, and, and they cannot beat you, right? Like, if I’m in a competition, someone can beat me. And again, I think competition. I don’t wanna think competition’s not bad. I think everything that coach is talking about, I’d say like, amen, exclamation point. I’d punctuate it. Yes, these things are true. I’ve done these things. I agree. These are, these are characteristics of high performers. And I think there’s super p valuable power in activating and understanding your own prey drive. And then there’s also, I think, a power in activating this purpose, drive this, this, this neverending desire to contribute to humanity. And I think the, the people who, who really change the world are, are the ones who contribute value to other people, not just the ones who achieve or accumulate or accomplish a lot, but they’re the, they’re the people who help a lot.
RV (13:31):
They, they improve the lives of other people a lot. Don’t ask, what is my purpose? Ask, who can I serve? Don’t go searching for happiness. Go searching for someone to help. If you go searching for someone to help, and you help them, you’ll find happiness. There’s nothing like the feeling you get when you help somebody else succeed. There’s nothing like the feeling you get when you, you know, contribute to somebody else’s success. There’s nothing like the feeling you get to when you, when you add value to somebody’s life, when you help them, when you get to have a small part in their success or their survival or their safety, they’re, they’re you, you have a deep sense of purpose, a deep sense of value in your life, because it, your life is occurring in the context of other people versus your life occurring in the context of serving yourself and just accumulating or achieving or amassing more things for yourself.
RV (14:34):
Not bad, not wrong. I think what is wrong is we’re wrong about where we think happiness will come from. I’ve achieved enough, I’ve accomplished enough impossible goals as, as I teach in our Conquering Impossible Goals course, which is based on you know, our take the Stairs book. And, and there is this energy of, of, or that it takes to achieve a huge goal. That’s why it’s beautiful, and that’s why it’s helpful and it inspires other people. And you often help other people as a byproduct. Like being in your own greatness often inspires greatness around you. And so there is a beautiful byproduct to accomplishing things that are beyond your own wildest imagination, which is that the people around you become inspired by watching, and they start to believe that they’re capable of things themselves. So there’s a lot of value in that way as well, to achieving.
RV (15:23):
But, you know, in addition to that, or as a, as a clarification or a sharpening of that is realizing that happiness doesn’t come from those achievements. I mean, I can pull out, I can literally go pull out in, I, I mean, in, in our, like in our storage, I’ve got trophies of a New York Times bestselling author and being a Hall of Fame speaker and, and becoming the world champion of public speaking first runner up and, and valedictorian and you know, getting my b a when I was 23. Like, I have all of these trophies and plaques and titles and things, and they literally sit, they literally sit in storage, right? Because they don’t, they don’t give meaning to my life anymore. But you never run out of meaning when you’re serving people. You never run out of purpose when you’re helping other people. When, when his mom said, which was so profound that people die because they run out of purpose. They should never run out of purpose, because you only run out of purpose if you’re self-centered. You never run out of purpose if you’re service centered.
RV (16:33):
And this is, this is such a big lesson for personal brands specifically, or for leaders specifically, or for entrepreneurs specifically, because you go, y you, we have the good fortune and the blessing of not having to be worried about our survival. We have the good fortune and blessing of most of us having achieved some level of success. And so it’s like we’re moving from survival to success, to significance. It’s this journey, this transformation that we’re on. And we go, oh, how do I get to significance? I get to significance not by being more successful. I get to significance by being more service minded. That’s how I get to significance. I get to significance. I meaning I’m having longer term impact, longer term sustainability to my motivation, a, a a longer term evidence of my life. And my work mattered not because of what I achieved or a mass or accumulated for myself, but because of the value in the contribution that I made in the lives of other people.
RV (17:32):
And that is a life that is worth living, which means it’s a life that is, is not worth killing and not worth dying, because you always have something else to do. You’ve got somebody else to serve. You’ve got somebody else to help and, and somebody else to save and somebody else to help succeed. And, and, and, and somebody else to mentor and coach. And so for me, I think I have ended up finding power. The, like, I have found my purpose in the power of service. I find my purpose in the power of service. And I think achievement is good. Conquering is good. Prey is prey drive is good. A amassing accumulate. I think those, these are good things because they often empower you to, to be able to be in a position to serve other people, right? Like you can’t you know, you put on your mask first before you’re helping others around you.
RV (18:30):
But you should never run out of purpose because you’re never run out of people to, to, to serve. And and it reminds me, you know, when he said you know, that this idea of count your days that’s actually there. That’s, that’s based on scripture, okay? So this is, you know, I don’t, regardless of if you’re a Christian or not, but like, if you read the Bible in the ancient text, in the, in Psalms, it’s Psalms 90, I looked it up. I didn’t have it memorized, but I knew it was in there. And so I looked it up. So in Psalm chapter 90, verse 12, it says, teach us to number our days so that we may apply our hearts to wisdom. Teach us to number our days so that we may apply our hearts to wisdom. That’s exactly what Coach Burt was talking about, right?
RV (19:18):
Is he was going, man, when you realize that there’s a clock counting down on your life, and you just are aware of that fact of, gosh, there’s, there’s a, there’s a limited time I’ve got here, it creates a tremendous sense of urgency, right? And that’s how I feel. I don’t let one second of my day go by accidentally, even if I’m sitting on the couch doing nothing, I’m deliberately sitting on the couch doing nothing because I’m rejuvenating, right? Or I’m rewarding myself with something. Nothing in my life is accidental. Nothing is unintentional, like every single second. And it is, I’ve, I’ve always felt this extraordinary urgency, this extraordinary urgency on my life, not because I’m desperate to achieve and accumulate and have more, although I’ve had big goals, and I, you know, came from very, very little. And we’ve accumulated a whole lot more than I ever imagined, and, and certainly more than we need, like for our survival.
RV (20:15):
But like, I’ve, even with that, there’s this tremendous sense of urgency, because I know there’s somebody out there who needs help, and that’s what I want you to think about. And that’s the power of numbering our days. And I, I, I, I love that coach brought that up. And then, you know, seeing that reference directly also in, in scripture, and of, of the five that he shared, the five activators of prey drive, again, I, I, I really, I loved, I loved it. So go listen to the whole interview. But the fifth one was the one that hit me the hardest, which was about embarrassment, because it ties into everything we’re talking about here.
RV (20:57):
And when I think about purpose, right after I die, I don’t wanna get to the end of my life and meet the person that I could have been and be disappointed, right? I would be embarrassed by that. I would be embarrassed getting to the end of my life and then being able to see like, oh, this was everything I was capable of, and this is, this is, you know, like, this is what I was capable of. These are the blessings that I’ve been given, the time I had been given, the, the relationships that, the skills, the access to different things. This was everything I was capable of. And I fell so far short of that because I was lazy, or complacent or distracted, or I was indulgent. Like in going, I’d be so embarrassed, I’d be so disappointed.
RV (21:55):
But beyond that, it’s not just me, right? It’s going, I don’t wanna get to the end of my life and be able to look back and see all the people that I could have helped, see all the people that I could have made a difference with. See all the lives that I might have helped transform or even just shape a little bit to see everybody that I could have helped along in their journey. And, and at some point get to the end of my life and see all these people lined up on a wall and go look at all the people I missed because I was indulgent. Look at all the people I missed because I was lazy, looked at all the people I missed because I had too much pride, or because I was scared, or, or because I was distracted. That would be so heartbreaking, you know?
RV (22:41):
And most of all, at least for me, I don’t wanna get to the end of my life and meet my creator and say, here’s what I’ve done with what you’ve given me, and be embarrassed about that report, right? I’ve, I’ve been given so much, so many blessings. We all have. All of us, if you are listening to this, you have blessings in your life, if nothing other than the blessing to have access, to listen to this type of information from wherever you are, which is an incredible blessing. Just to have access to, you know, these types of trainings for free and from so many different, for so many different people, right? We all have blessings. And I would hate to, to show up for my final report and say, here’s what you’ve given me and here’s what I’ve done with it, and here’s what I’m capable of.
RV (23:41):
And there’s a giant gap I’d be embarrassed about that I, I’d be scared about that. I, I wouldn’t feel proud about that. And so whenever I die, however I die in whatever way that I die, I just want to, I wanna know that up until the very last possible moment that I, I was physically or mentally able, that every single last waking breath that I could possibly muster up, I was working in the pursuit of hum serving humanity, of helping humanity, of making a difference, of making an impact on other people, of, of, of serving those people who are in a struggle. And, and, and helping those people who are in different, difficult and challenging circumstances to conquer them and helping people who are facing obstacles to overcome them, and to go with every moment I had. And so, because at least then if I didn’t live up to my capacity, at least I can say I did everything I could, right?
RV (24:48):
Like, I, I took advantage of every single second serving the people around me in the best way I knew how. So I can at least come with a final report to go. I may have not lived up to my potential, but I did everything I could. Like, I, I did the best I knew how to do with what I had, and I helped every single person that I, I could, I could, you know, fathom within my abilities to try to help. But I know I never ran outta purpose. I ran outta life before I ran outta purpose, right? I didn’t run outta purpose, and that caused me to run outta life. That’s, that’s, that’s not gonna be it. That’s not gonna be me. That’s not how I’m going down. And maybe for you, it’s the same. So be competitive. Activate your pray drive. Listen to that interview with Coach Burt.
RV (25:42):
Send him some love on social. Let him know that you heard him here on our podcast. Share this episode and, and, and the interview with somebody that you think it can help activate your prey drive to, to go out and pursue. And, and, and, you know, these are, I think can be, you know, very similar messages is the instinctive ability to pursue service, right? For me, that is where the power is in these days. I have found my purpose and the power of service. But conquer and win and challenge and accumulate and AMAs and, and achieve, and push yourself to the limits and become a champion. And also serve others and help others. And don’t, don’t get law searching for happiness and achievement. Realize that happiness comes from service. Don’t ask what’s my purpose? Ask who can I serve. Thanks for letting me serve you. Thanks, you keep coming back, giving us this blessing and privilege. We appreciate you. We love you. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.
Ep 350: Activating Your Prey Drive with Micheal Burt
RV (00:07):
Hey, brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview. As always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions, and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to, to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do [email protected] slash pod call brand builders group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:54):
Nothing fills me up more than seeing our clients succeed. And one of the things that we’ve done a lot in the last few years as we’ve helped people with book launches, we actually just last week had our 11th client that has hit the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, or the U s A today bestseller list. And while we love pursuing bestseller lists, we also wanna remind people that bestseller lists don’t change lives, books do. And our job when we work with the client is to help them get their book into the hands of as many people as possible in a legitimate, ethical, impactful way that actually changes the world. And so occasionally on this show, we are able to have clients of ours who we feel like we have something to learn from and who we feel like you have something to learn from.
RV (01:42):
And that is the case here for sure, with Coach Burt, coach Micheal Burt. He usually goes by Coach Burt or just coach to a lot of people. And he is we met, he became a client of ours. We’re helping him with a book that he has coming out. The book is called Flip the Switch, and it is all about activating your prey drive. And when I say prey drive, it’s like p r e y. So this is something that he is the leading authority on this term, this concept about prey drive. He defines it as the instinctual ability to see something that you want and have the intensity to pursue it. So he was a former championship women’s basketball coach which we’ll talk about. He’s a 17 time author. And he has been hired by many of the top companies in the world, Dell Inc. State Farm Insurance, Vanderbilt University and others just around helping activate this drive in their teams, helping people to have more competitive intelligence. He’s been featured on shows like CNBC’s, the Prophet and Entrepreneur Magazine, and he’s just really a great guy. I’ve really enjoyed getting to meet him and I’m excited to learn from him. So coach, welcome to the show.
RV (02:57):
Excited to be here
MB (02:58):
With you. You, man, this is this is gonna be fun.
RV (03:01):
Yeah. So tell me quickly about your background as a basketball coach and the track record that you had there. Cuz I feel like that’s a Yeah, I was a basketball player and so I, you know, I understand that world. I think that’s an important part of, of the backstory.
MB (03:15):
Well, you know, I’m in Texas today in San Antonio when I was speaking at an event and, and a person just asked me, what really differentiates you from other speakers and coaches? And I said, well, everybody is differentiated by their unique past, their unique experiences, their unique education. And I started actual athletic coaching when I was 15 junior pro basketball. I was coaching in elementary team at 18. I was at Riverdale High School at 19 while I was in college. And I actually became the youngest head coach in the state of Tennessee at the second largest high school at 22. So I knew very early in life that I wanted to coach, but I was most fascinated by what I called inner engineering the players building competitive intelligence. So around 18, I went to a coaching clinic in Nashville at David Lipscomb University, and Don Don Meyer, the great coach at David Lipscomb, said, if you don’t read another book this year, pick up a copy of the seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
MB (04:11):
And I, at 18 years old, I went straight to the bookstore, I bought it, I became a huge disciple under Covey for the next seven years, where I really learned how to inter engineer whole person theory. I really mastered those seven habits and I began teaching my players those habits. So when you fast forward three or four years, I was really using a lot of business methodology, a lot of personal growth methodology with my players, way more than other people were. We were starting to win a lot of games. And so people were constantly asking me, what are you doing with the kids? And so at 25 years old, I wrote my first book called Changing Lives Through Coaching. That was 17 books ago. And I became kind of fascinated with just how do you activate a drive inside of a person? But that started as a decade as a head coach at Riverdale. We won the first of seven championships at that school. And you know, I kind of became known as this great coach that knew really how to get more out of people. That’s what people knew me for. So
RV (05:06):
You won seven state championships? I don’t want to like over that.
MB (05:11):
I, well, I built, what I did is it took me 10 years to build that place that never won a championship in 30 years. Okay. So I won the first Got it. And then I retired at 31 years old. They were going to win the next seven after I left.
RV (05:24):
Wow. Okay. So, so you were a state championship basketball coach. Yep. And, and you, you use this term competitive intelligence. Yeah. So what is that, what is that? And like define, define that for me.
MB (05:42):
Well, I think when you look at intelligences, you know, whether you study the work on intelligences, obviously there’s iq, there’s physical quotient, spiritual quotient, you know, there’s all these intelligences. And I really said what I was building in my players was what I called, I called a competitive intelligence, which was kind of a combination of intangible things. My players were smarter than other people’s players. They had more chemistry, they had more trust in buy-in. There were more intangible assets that you couldn’t measure, that my teams had discipline. And, and so I started calling that competitive intelligence. It’s like they just knew how to win at a higher level than other people knew how to win based on the unique methodology I was using to coach them, which came from my background with Covey. Right. Me studying under Covey, taking it and teaching my players was really building that competitive intelligence in my players.
RV (06:31):
Uhhuh
MB (07:34):
Well, most experts in the world have, have had a long cycle of building a primary skill, right? That’s the reason they’re experts, is they had a cycle of, of finding their primary skill, most likely packaging that skill, marketing that skill, and ultimately monetizing that skill. So that decade for me was in the trenches, in the laboratory, learning how to activate the prey drive in people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. D you know, high income class, low income class, one parent, no parents, two parents. I was really learning how to win at a very high level, but more importantly, how to take a person and get more out of them. Now, when I started writing books I’d had no intention of coaching adults, Rory, none whatsoever. I wanted to coach. I was gonna go to college. I was gonna be the next male pat summit.
MB (08:25):
I was gonna go on to coach at a major university. That was my trajectory. But when I started writing books people started calling me and said, Hey, will you come over and speak to my team? And it was companies like Dale, state Farm, national Healthcare, and I would just go speak for an hour and then go back to the players, right? Go back and coach. Well, I would go over and speak and they would say, we want you to come back. And I said, okay, what do you mean? I said, well, come back once a quarter, come back. And then people started saying, how much, how much would it cost for you to coach our people? And I had never really thought about that. So I’m like, man, I’m a high school coach. I’m trying to win championships. I really love the kids. I’m not interested in doing this. But, but the numbers was six figures. They would say,
RV (09:05):
But I can be bought. Let’s be clear. I love the kids. I love bad basketball, but like anyone, I can be bought. I mean, let’s be honest. I mean, that’s
MB (09:15):
RV (10:18):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (10:30):
Well, this is what I, this is what the, the whole new book is about, which is called Flip the Switch. I trademarked the two words, prey drive in humans an animal has a prey drive. It is the animal’s ability to stalk, capture, and kill prey. And g God gave me the gift of association. I can hear a concept, I can quickly associate deconstruct a concept, codify it, package it, and then deliver it in a way that activates something inside of another person. And so when I heard that word, pray, drive those two words, I’m like, you know, humans have a prey drive. I had this big revelation. I was with my wife at a, at a conference. The guy said, pray drive. I looked it up and I said, humans have a prey drive. It’s just not been activated. And so many people. And I told my wife, that’s, this is what I’ve been doing since I was 15 years old.
MB (11:16):
I just didn’t know I was looking for a new way to talk about an old thing, right? I was looking for some bja day. I was looking for a new way to talk about motivation. And so what I did is I studied the top 20 motivational theories. I deconstructed those theories. I then associated those theories with me. 30 years of me actually coaching all walks of life. I spent four years in the prison system rehabilitating maximum security offenders. I’ve coached multi-millionaires, I’ve worked with billionaires, I’ve worked with people just trying to get started. And I’ve kind of taken motivation and turned it into a science. So there’s three phases of this drive has to be activated. And, and in the book I talk about about five activators that I have seen. Once the prey drive is activated, then there must be a persistence to that prey drive to really accomplish something big. This is why mastery is so important. And then there must be an intensity to that prey drive, which is targets timelines, a game to play a scoreboard, right? And typically people fall off the wagon. So the first step is to figure out the three phases where people fall off the wagon and then to go to work on these five activators that I talk about in the book.
RV (12:21):
So you’re saying, so step one is it’s gotta be activated number, turn it on, flip the switch to use the title of the book, right? So we have to flip, we have to flip the switch, turn the prey drive on, then we need to do something about persistence, like to keep it going. And then you’re saying,
MB (12:38):
Oh, no refinement.
RV (12:39):
Okay. And then intensity, what you’re saying is like, intensity comes from like having a target or a goal or a timeline or you know, a competition or something like that. So yeah. So let’s talk about the, let’s talk about the activation. Cuz cuz you know, I, I have to say that it, it struck me once I understood actually one, once I saw the word p r e y, like when I saw it spelled out, it made more sense to me. And it caught my attention of like, you know, I associated it personally with like a killer instinct. And basically just like, yeah, some people are are turned off. They have no ambition, they have no drive, they have no pursuit. They have, they’ve, they’ve got, they’ve got nothing that they’re going after. And I think it’s, you know, there’s always there what a lot of people would say, you, you can’t motivate someone. The one thing you can’t do is, is motivate someone, which I’ve always struggled with. I don’t think I really ag I don’t, I don’t agree with that. I think there’s a number of things you can do. And I feel like you’re sort of saying the same thing here. So talk, talk to us about how to activate it and you know, and if you wanna run, let’s run through some of the activators about how to, how to flip that switch in ourself or our team or maybe a child, you know? But let
MB (14:00):
It flip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you, when you think about activating the prey drive it is, it is an instinct ability to pursue potential opportunity a better life, right? And most people, it has not been activated.
RV (14:16):
And you’re saying it’s instinctive. So you’re saying that we all have this somewhere deep down, turned off, buried, whatever you wanna say, but we all have the ability to, to pursue.
MB (14:29):
That’s correct. Yeah. I think if you look at kids, I have a two and a half year old son and a and a and a 12 week old daughter and a 10 year old daughter. And listen, they pursue, they see things they want and they pursue ’em, right? And, and what happens, I just coached a group of real estate agents today, insurance agents yesterday. You know, the best ones pursue opportunity, pursue deals, they follow up, they see something through to its conclusion. They understand they have to activate this drive every day. So when I looked at the five activators, I said, okay, what have I seen that activates people’s drive to want more, right? Cause satisfied needs never motivate, only unsatisfied needs. The reason we become complacent is because our needs are met. Okay? And that’s really, when you study the motivational theories, they all say the same thing.
MB (15:13):
We move toward things we want when we’re hungry, we moved toward food. When we’re lonely, we move toward people, right? We move toward things we want and what we think will make us happy. So when you think about activating, I started looking at this. Fear is a tremendous activator of prey drive, right? And, and psychologists would tell you when you’re afraid, you fight, you flee. Or there’s a third thing they’re now saying is you freeze. Which is what a lot of people are doing in today’s economy. They just freeze. They don’t do anything. Okay? So fear is an activator, a prey drive. When you are afraid of losing something, something that matters to you, it will activate your drive when you’re afraid of going broke, when you’re afraid of going back to the way you used to be when you’re like, fear can be one of the strongest drivers of a person’s prey drive.
MB (15:56):
Now here’s an example. In March of 2020, you’re in a very similar business that I’m in. Okay? I, I speak, I drive leads, we generate those leads to a coaching business, right? Lemme generate about 3000 leads every 90 days right now, well, in March of 2020, there was no speaking engagements. I was losing about a quarter of a million a month in my coaching business, right? And, and what happened to me is it activated a deep drive in me. It activated two things, a fear and a competitiveness in me, right? The, the old coach in me that didn’t like to lose came out. And the fear of losing everything I had worked 20 years to build, which was an incredible life activated my drive to such a freakish level. I just got to a whole nother level of push and energy and force and creativity.
MB (16:46):
And I actually needed that to activate that drive in me because I had been doing this 15 years and I need, I wouldn’t complacent, but, but there was another gear in me I hadn’t found yet. And through the fear of losing everything, the fear of going back, man, it activated my drive. So, so I push so hard that, you know, six months later in the middle of the pandemic, we did like 1.7, 1.8 million that month, which was a big month for my coaching business. But it all came outta fear. It really started with fear activating my prey drive. Not a lot of, but a lot of people contract when they have fear. High prey drive, people use fear as fuel. So fear is an activator or prey drive, typically fear of losing.
RV (17:24):
Yeah. I mean that like, you know, the, I the, the thing that popped into my mind was like you know, a mama bear, a mama bear kind of thing of like, you, you know, you see your kid getting attacked by, you know, some, some animal or whatever, and all of a sudden you just go savage, right? Like, you just go, you go on ’em. So that makes a lot of sense. That’s, that’s powerful. I, it, it also to me, like really reframes, you know, that, that, you know, there’s a healthy, very much a healthy side of, of fear beyond just staying, you know, safe, but like hitting that gear, hitting that gear. So okay, so fear, that makes sense. What are some of the other ones?
MB (18:04):
Competition is an activator of prey drive. When there’s an, when there’s an adversary, when there’s somebody to beat. When there’s somebody who doesn’t think you’re good enough when there’s a, you know, just any kind of competition can activate your drive, right? But, but competition, I’m a big believer that you need a game to play a trophy to win. If it’s, if it’s in your own, if it, if it’s in your own mind, you need, you know, speaking yesterday, and I was asking my coaching students if they thought I could convert 50% of the room or higher on purchasing the new book, flip the Switch, right? Uhhuh
MB (18:41):
I’m gonna, I’m gonna try to get 50% of the room minimum or higher when I go in and speak to this insurance group to buy the new book. Right? So it’s competition activated my prey drive cuz I’m a competitor. Okay? So competition is an activator. Now you mentioned something earlier, why is people’s prey drive not activated? I actually think it’s because they’ve not been exposed to what a better life would look like. Exposure is an activator, a prey drive. When I see something, when I’m exposed to something, when, when, when I, when I experience something that goes, oh, there’s a be there’s a, I could have a better life. I could stay in better hotels, I could drive a better car, I could live in a better house. I could go on better vacations. I could, right? Like exposure is a huge activator of prey drive. Cause I see something and it expands my mind and it’s like, man, I want that. I want a life like that. Okay, so environment is an activator, a prey drive. Does that because you’re in an environment,
RV (19:37):
Are you saying, so it is environment number four, or are you saying exposure environment? So exposure is, is
MB (19:44):
Number three, environment number
RV (19:46):
Four.
MB (19:47):
Yep. Gotcha. Environment is four. Meaning there’s expectation. Think about playing at Alabama or Georgia. Think about where there’s an environment of expectation. Think about like, when I was a coach, we created this environment that we’re the best high standards similar language lots of accountability, right? Identity teaching people, Hey, we’re the best at what we do. Personal pride being in environments, they just bring out the prey drive in you, right? And then fifth would be embarrassment. This is what I write about.
RV (20:17):
So hold on ho hold on. Embarrassment. I wanna talk about that. But, but the environment one is interesting to me because it’s like winning is such a culture, right? Yeah. And losing is also a culture like you, I think of like Coach K at Duke or you know, the Yankees or the Patriots or Alabama, right? Like they, they win consistently. And, and I remember seeing a study, I, man, I wish, I wish I would’ve documented where this was, but I remember seeing a study and they were studying very, very like wealthy, successful people. And they were looking for what these people have in common. And they found that like the number one thing that all these people had in common was that they believed they were supposed to be successful because they had been told their whole life in our family, we’re successful, our family is smart, our family is wealthy, our our family is intelligent.
RV (21:17):
And they basically like adopted that as a belief system and then it became their reality and it was completely manufactured by the environment. Yep. And similarly you know, there’s, well, there’s I think it’s in the book Freakonomics, it’s either Freakonomics or tipping point. I think it’s Freakonomics where they talk about how in New York City there’s all this terrible crime. And you know, like at the, when you go into the train station if, if the little turn style doesn’t, you know, work, like if you jump over it, you don’t have to pay. You just jump over and then hop on the train. And they were talking about how, you know that good people who would normally pay stopped paying because so many bad people were just like jumping over the thing. And so they were like, well, I’m not gonna pay if no one else is paying. Where normally that would be like a good person. And just like, so it works in the other direction too. I mean, I, I think that people really underestimate this one.
MB (22:19):
I, I do too. Because look at, look at people working from home today. And there are a percentage of people who can activate their prey drive daily. But I would tell you, because we went from working in offices to home, I would tell you that we’re a lot more productive when we’re together, when there’s an environment. That’s why I’m building a greatness factory in downtown Nashville, which is a place where you go to work, learn, grow, connect, you’re going there to be great. It’s called the Greatness Factory. It’s not called the complacency factory. And so, so you know, it, it’s this place of energy. It’s like, man, I wanna work at the greatness factor where the energy’s good and there’s environment. And when I’m in town, I lead sales rallies and every, every tenant gets access to my coaching programs. And they can use the auditorium and the podcast studios and writes a little city.
MB (23:05):
But there’ll be a lot of environment activators of prey drive. Cuz I’m working at the greatness factory. I wanna go to work. So environment, that was a big one that I built as a coach. You know, when I went to Riverdale, they had never won a championship in 30 years. I mean, it was 1979. I had to really build an environment. So we redid the locker rooms, we w we changed uniforms to nicer uniforms. We, we redid the hallways. We put big things of we’re the best. I brought in gold you know, rings, championship rings for the players to wear gold ball balls in there for them to see what they look like. A lot of visualization on what it’s like to be a champion. It took me 10 years of sowing this into my players. But over a tenure cycle, they begin to believe we’re the best.
MB (23:49):
And when you’re here, we activate the prey drive. Now people do not wake up with their prey drive activated. I tell people this when I speak, I just, because I write motivational books, just cause I wrote this book does not mean I wake up with my prey drive activated. I wake up just like everybody else does. Sometimes I’m tired, sometimes I’m irritable, sometimes I’m frustrated. Right? And so I, I teach in the book, how do you activate it every day? How do you go into battle every day? Right? King David was a great king in the Bible until he stopped going into battle, right? And his own troops talked him outta going into battle, right? We’re at our best when we are pursuing, when we are engaging, when we are in the game. This is why retirement is such a bad idea for people. Cuz they quit pursuing their potential.
MB (24:31):
They make themselves not as valuable in the world because, because they basically said, I’m used up. Right? I don’t have anything to pursue. So environment is important. And then the fifth one is embarrassment. And I don’t use embarrassment as a coach, like negative. And some coaches do, they talk the way they talk to people. I don’t do that. I talk to people from an affirmative perspective. Like, you know, Rory, help me to understand, man, you’re the best. I brought you here because you’re the best in the world at what you do, man. You have a pure, unique ability and unique talent. Help me to understand why you’re not playing at the level you’re really capable of playing. Help me to understand why you’re doing four deals a month when you could be doing 12 deals a month. Help me to understand why you’re doing this versus this. I I speak to people in a way that they go, you know what? This is embarrassing. The way I’m playing at the level I’m playing is embarrassing to me and I wanna play at a higher level. So that’s the way I talk about embarrassment in the book is you look at yourself versus your potential and you go, man, I’m not even close to where I’m capable of doing and I want to do better. I want a better life. I want him to level up.
RV (25:36):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (26:11):
Yeah.
RV (26:12):
And he said, I would be so embarrassed to my friends, to my family, to God, to myself. I’d be so embarrassed that I never lived up to Yeah. What I was capable of. I mean, it’s just I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone use that in a positive way. And now here today, twice in the same, in the same day. Like, that’s really powerful.
MB (26:36):
Well, I’m glad you said that because I actually take a contradictory view in the book of finding your Why. Chapter three of, of this new book is called Screw Your Why. And it’s called that because I actually, you know, I’ve coached people for 31 years. I think it’s a great book. I think Simon Sinek is a, a genius. However, having said that, I do not believe a person has to find their why to do something big in the world. I actually believe your purpose finds you when you are taking action and pursuing a curiosity, pursuing a, something you’re fascinated by. So I believe in something called because goals. See, you just said it about Matthew McConaughey. A because goal is a big reason that you do something even when you don’t feel like it. Okay. Be because if I don’t work hard, I’ll be embarrassed because I grew up without my dad.
MB (27:28):
I wanna be a good dad to my kids. Because right when they asked Tom Brady why he played so hard in the Super Bowl where they came back when they were down 30 something points at halftime to the Falcons, he said, because my mom was dying of cancer and I flew her in for this game, and I didn’t wanna lose the super goal Super Bowl with my mom in the stance. See what I talk about in the book are these because goals and a because goal was a big reason. Because I make the argument that you can know your purpose and still not be motivated. Your prey drive still not be activated. I could know I’m supposed to coach people today, but when it came time for me to go motivate those real estate agents today, what if I didn’t feel like it because a coach poured into me when I was six years old changed my life.
MB (28:09):
I made up my mind I was gonna spend the rest of my life pouring into other people. Because, because I see myself as the best at what I do because I don’t wanna be embarrassed by my performance. See, this is a because goal. And when I know a person’s because goal and I know the activator, the primary activator of their prey drive, I can really help a person get to a higher level. Because you and I both coach wealthy people. I mean, I’ve coached people making five or 600,000 a month, a million a month, 3 million a month, they still lost a prey drive. So it’s not about them versus the money, it’s about them versus their potential, them versus what they’re really capable of doing. And I need to know their, because goals on why they would want it and why they would want play at a higher level.
RV (28:50):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (30:12):
Like, that’s that, that activated, but that activated his prey drive. See, see when, when somebody shook Michael Jordan’s hand and said, good game. It infuriated him that activated his prey drive when George Carl didn’t acknowledge Michael Jordan at the restaurant the night before. They played the supersonics, it infuriated Jordan, it activated his prey drive. Like he, he, he looked for things like, like when you say something to a guy like Millet, who is, who is, is incredible from stage and getting better every time. Like every time he gives the presentation, he’s better and better and better and better. You know, that activates his prey. Drive that desire to be the best, that competition to be known as the best activates prey drive. You know? And that’s what, so you can see it once you have a, an anchor to it, what prey drive is, which is that, that killer instinct. See that moment you felt that killer instinct to my left, and you don’t get to my let’s level without having that instinct, right? Yeah. So, so it’s like you, that one statement, boom, flip the switch. And that’s really what I think a good coach does. Sometimes. It’s, it’s something they say that activates something inside of a person.
RV (31:15):
Well, well, I certainly wasn’t doing it on purpose. I was an accident. He, he, but he, he he, he, he, he, it just shows you the level of intensity that he operates at. And I, and I, I want to ask you about intensity before we go, but before, before we do that so you’ve mentioned this, we’ve been talking about flip the switch. Okay. We’ve kind of gone through these five activators, but there’s a whole system here for, you know, basically activating this, sticking with it. I wanna talk a little bit about intensity, but where do, where should people go coach if they wanna pick up a copy of the book?
MB (31:49):
Well, if they go to my website, coach bird.com and click on that, you can pre-order the book. When you do pre-order the book. We’re giving you a lot of things, including two full days of coaching with me, one on visionary that’s coming up quick, and one on January 13th called Activate, which is a full day. We also give you 90 days of pre drive for lunch, what I call pre drive for lunch, which are 90 days of sessions with me for 90 days. And, and a breakdown of the book on video of me breaking the book down and kind of a masterclass. So they go to coach bird.com, they can click there, take ’em to Amazon purchase it, and then they come back and show us where they purchased it to get all the freebies.
RV (32:27):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (32:50):
Yep.
RV (32:50):
Which, you know, is what it is. But I’ve also been in, you know, some circles that talk about enoughness and going, okay. Is, is, is there ever a point where you have enough to where you go, Hmm, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve got enough. Like I don’t, I don’t need to keep chasing, I don’t need to keep, like, always moving the goalpost, so to speak. So I’m cur I’m curious about your assessment on either the balance of enoughness with intensity, or do you not, do you, do you not really believe in enoughness at all? Or like, just what’s your, what’s your personal philosophy there about intensity, you know, like intensity and rest or intensity and enoughness not, I mean, obviously you don’t believe in complacency, complacencies the enemies. Yeah. Sounds like. Yeah. But, you know, how do you reconcile that? Or, or is that not really the concern? Because, you know, people spend plenty of time resting and they need to get more time getting their butt in gear. Like, I’m just curious of your thoughts.
MB (33:51):
Yeah, I, I do believe in rejuvenation, which means to make young again. So I operate very much like an athlete, artist, entertainer. I rest, I practice and I play. And when I play, I wanna play at such a high level that it’s deeply impactful to people. But to play at that level, you need rest, you need rejuvenation. So I, I completely believe in that. I typically take one day off per week, just like the Bible says. I typically take one day where I do nothing. Okay. And, and just to myself now to your question about complacency, which is a gradual settling to a place of mediocrity. Mediocre meaning halfway up the mountain, you’re gradually settling to go halfway up the mountain. My mom has been a nurse her whole life and she worked a percentage of her life in nursing homes, taking care of elderly.
MB (34:38):
And I asked her one day, why did people pass away at the end of their life outside of just natural causes? And she gave me three reasons. She said, number one, they run outta money. And when they run outta money, they run outta good care. There’s one nurse for every 23 residents in a nursing home. She said, number two, they run out of love. Nobody comes to see ’em. The only love they get is from the other residents and the people who take care of them. The family forgets about ’em. She said, but the real reason they pass away is they run out of purpose. They don’t have something to get up and pursue. And I saw that with my own grandfather. He retired, he worked his whole life on a farm. He loved it. Get up and work at build houses. He was, he became a single digit millionaire in his life.
MB (35:18):
I mean, he, he was an entrepreneur and then he decided to retire. And my mother said as almost as if the day after he retired, everything in his life went downhill. His mind went downhill, his health went downhill. And then we spent all of the money that he had earned in his life to take care of him 24 hours a day for the rest of his life. And so the, the, the point here of why people watching this should be interested and have an intensity is that you don’t wanna run out of purpose. And, and the prey drive is pursuing something that is meaningful to you. Right now, the average person, average females live into 78 years old. Average average females living to 82, average males living into 78. Put that in number of days you have left on planet Earth. And that will build an intensity in you. Cuz it ain’t a lot of days, right? I’m 46, you look at what, 15,000 more days. If I live to be that age, that builds intensity. I got a long way to go in a short time to get there. Big goals, big goals, big because goals, and that is where the intensity comes from, is I got something big to do on planet Earth while I’m here.
RV (36:22):
I love it. I love that. So powerful coach. Thank you for this. We’ll link up to coach burt.com. Y’all can go there. And yeah, I’d say go check it out, even if you’re not gonna buy the book. Go look at what coach is doing. And the way that we’ve got this whole book launch structured, he’s, he’s following the brand builders method, right? He’s got a lot of, a lot of insane bonuses he’s giving away. He’s really, really overdelivering. So head over to coach burt.com, check that out. Coach, we want the best for you, man. We’re good. We’re excited to be on your team, we’re pulling for you. And thank you for helping us all activate this part of our life.
MB (36:59):
Well, and I think the people out there, let me say this, it’s been a, a absolute pleasure and honor working with Rory. And for those, for those out there watching, he cares deeply about the people he works with. He, he goes above and beyond on what’s asked. He continues to follow up and texts and coach. And if you’re out there thinking about doing this, it’s been a, it’s been a very first class experience for us. So thank you for that. Thank you for believing in me and helping us to hit this hit this list that I know that we’re gonna hit.
RV (37:26):
All right, my friend. So yeah. We’ll everyone stand by for that coach. We’ll catch you next time. Thanks for being here.
MB (37:32):
All right. Thank you, big guy.
Ep 347: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 2
RV (00:00):
But I do wanna share with you the two things for how I stopped, how I actually stopped drinking. And the first one is really important. It was, it’s to rewrite your programming. Rewrite your programming. And there’s an entire chapter on this. Take the stairs. It’s called the Creation Principle of Integrity. And it talks about how our words are, what are the, the first step in creating our lives? Like your, the human brain is a computer. It is a program your brain is happy to do. Whatever you tell it to do. It will. And, and so here’s what’s important. Don’t try to convince yourself to artificially not do something that you really do wanna do. Instead, realize that you naturally won’t do the things you don’t wanna do. So don’t try to convince yourself not to do something you do wanna do.
RV (01:01):
Realize that you naturally won’t do something you don’t wanna do. So here’s what I mean. If you, if you tell yourself, I love alcohol, alcohol makes me relax, alcohol makes me happy, alcohol makes me comfortable. I need alcohol. Cause I had a hard day. If you tell yourself those things, they will be true for you. So when you, when that is your base programming, and then you try to change your behavior on top of that, it’s in conflict. Cuz you’re going, oh, I can’t drink for 30 days cuz I’m on this thing. Or, you know, I made a resolution. I’m not gonna drink for a little bit. The the issue there is your, your mindset. The is, is the behavior doesn’t align with the programming. Underneath you’re saying, I like alcohol, I want alcohol. That’s what the program is. And then you’re trying to create behavior that is in, in conflict with that saying, but I don’t wanna drink or I’m not gonna drink.
RV (01:54):
So you’re denying yourself something. The actual way to change your behavior is to change the root programming. Because if you convince yourself, I don’t like alcohol, I don’t want to drink, then it’s much easier to have the behavior fall in line because you’re not going against the programming of your brain. So this sounds incredibly simple and it is simple. It’s not easy, but it’s credible, incredibly simple. If you wanna stop any habit in your life or change any habit in your life, or stop any negative thing, you have to attack the underlying programming. How do you do that? Simple. It’s what you tell yourself over and over and over again. All you believe, you listen. Your brain does not believe what is true. Your brain believes whatever you tell it most often, whatever you tell it most often is what becomes true. I guarantee it.
RV (02:48):
And so I wanna read for you, I’m just gonna read for you my, you know, I call these my alcohol affirmations, which they’re really my non-alcohol affirmations. I just wanna, I’m just gonna read them to you because this is what I read to myself like every day for the first few weeks. And after a couple weeks, I didn’t have to read it anymore. My desire for alcohol disappeared. Right? So here it is. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work. Alcohol makes me less likely to achieve my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol weakens my decision. Making alcohol makes me more vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the, the chance of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I will eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp and active the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the, and the Lord.
RV (04:35):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to drink alcohol in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or none at all not drinking alcohol. Lengthens the length, lengthens the term of my effectiveness and my success. Alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And so
RV (05:14):
If you will just
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Say those things over and over again, I mean, that’s what I did. It changes the programming. It replaces your programming in your head, and it, it changes everything because now you’re building new behaviors on, you’re on a new foundation, and they’re not working against
RV (05:32):
Each other.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They’re working with each other. They’re working alongside each other. And, right, like the more I said those things, those that affirmations list that
RV (05:42):
I just shared with you, the more I believed it to
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Be true. And the more I
RV (05:45):
Felt like it really was true,
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And the more
RV (05:49):
That I felt it really was true, the less desire I actually had to ever do it. And so I wasn’t like, I know where I am now. It’s, it’s weird to fast forward ahead six years and go you know, who I was back then and was like, man, I looked forward. Like I looked forward to drinking. It was like the thing I was looking forward to at the end of the week, or even at the end of a day, like, gosh, I can’t wait to just like go home and have a drink. And now it’s like, I don’t want it. I’m not drawn to it. The desire is not there because the programming has changed. And so, you know, that’s what I want you to really like, think about with whatever change it is that you wanna make in your life. And you know, replacing your programming.
RV (06:36):
So, you know, first, first of all, you gotta, you gotta redefine your identity. Then you gotta rewrite your programming. And then the last thing is is you gotta replace your choices. And there’s, there’s two key choices that I’ve made on this journey, at least for me, that were, were really pivotal and they both have to do with replacements. And so the first one was just literally replacing what I was holding in my hand and giving myself more options. Because the, that’s the, the hard part is going, oh, well, when I’m out at dinner, I’m used to holding wine and or, you know, like, I come home at the end of the day and it’s like, oh, I, you know, I, I wanna, I wanna have a drink of some type. And so, you know, what I’m grabbing for is important to sort of have that replacement.
RV (07:27):
So here’s some simple replacements that made a big difference for me. So instead of drinking beer, drink Topo Chico specifically was what I would do because it was a glass bottle and I would pop it, it makes the same, you know, it’d make the, the same sound as popping open a bottle of beer and then you know, drinking that or sparkling water, right? So sparkling water was a, was a in instead of wine drink sparkling water. So instead of beer drink, Topo Chico is a glass bottle. Instead of wine, what I do is I drink sparkling water and then I will either add or sparkling apple juice or sparkling grape juice. And that is like what, what I would have like even now when I’ll go out to dinner, like what I’ll order, oftentimes I’ll order sparkling water with a splash of cranberry juice.
RV (08:23):
And so it’s super healthy. Often it’s free. I mean, you know, like, or it’s, it’s nowhere near the cost of a, of a cocktail. Now, if I really want a cocktail, what I will do is I’ll order a mock. And so almost every bartender loves making mocktails cuz they don’t get asked for it that often. And you say like, Hey, make me something fancy or whatever. So if I’m at let’s say we’re in Mexico by the pool or something, you know, and it’s like, I really wanna have a something, you know, like I’ll go, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll have a, have a have a fancy, a fancy mocktail. And that’s just a simple, a simple replacement. So instead of beer, I had Topo Chico. Instead of like wine, I’d have sparkling grape juice. And instead of a cocktail, I would get sparkling water with like a splash of cranberry or just, or just a mocktail.
RV (09:11):
So those are easy choices, but the, the more, the more difficult choice and frankly the more powerful choice. And the more important choice was that for me in my life, there were two people specifically that I identified that I needed to replace. Not so much like replace the people I needed to replace the time I was spending with these two individuals. And so when I looked back on, you know, the regrets that I had and me being drunk, and then I looked and said, well, gosh, there’s this very common thread that there’s these two specific people in my life that when I’m around them, I am drunk. It’s like sort of what we do. And it’s, it became the modality and the way of operating. And so, you know, rather than trying to change what they’re doing or change their behavior, I just basically said I have to replace myself out of that circumstance.
RV (10:09):
And most of the time in life, I’m a big believer, like I’m a big believer that usually you don’t need to change your circumstance, you need to change your attitude. Like usually that is, is what my default is. And what, even when I coach people and coach myself, like usually it’s not the circumstance that it’s is the problem. It’s your attitude. That’s the problem. And so you need to change your, you need to change your attitude, not your circumstance. But in this case, and whenever you’re trying to change like a physical behavior, it’s really important to change your physical surroundings. When you’re trying to change a physical behavior. It’s important to change the physical surroundings. Same thing, right? Like when you, when you’re trying to lose weight, I’ve been on that journey as well. It’s like I can’t have chips and cookies and bread and crackers and pretzels and everything just like a right there at my disposal to grab, because otherwise I’ll grab them, right?
RV (11:04):
So I have to change the environment. It’s sort of the same, same thing here, which is really tough. These were two people in my life that it was like we got together and we got drunk. And I can’t do that anymore, right? When I’m, when I’m making a change. And so what goal do you have in your life? What thing do you aspire to? Who are you looking to become? And it might be that you need to replace yourself out of a situation and you need to put yourself in another situation. You gotta change your environment. You gotta change your circumstance. Like literally change your environment. And so that was, that was a big, that was a big thing for me. And so that is how I have done it, right? And it, it hasn’t been very hard actually. Like the first few weeks were hard, but the, you know, you redefine your identity and you figure out, okay, why does this matter to me?
RV (11:56):
Not somebody else telling me I should, but, but why do I care? I listed my seven reasons of, of what, why it mattered to me personally. You only need one, right? You just, but you need one good one that matters to you. And you gotta be doing it for you. Like, if you’re making changes in your life because of someone else or cuz you think you’re supposed to, it’s not gonna be sustainable because you’re, it’s, you’re not changing your identity. You change your identity by changing your purpose and changing your why and deciding, I’ve got a reason to become a different person and that’s my reason, not yours. Not someone else’s, not some rule or some, you know, principle that I think I’m, I’m supposed to uphold or do. But it’s like a genuine, like, I’m rewriting, I’m redefining my identity. Then I gotta rewrite my programming, which to me is, is the most practical part of this.
RV (12:51):
And it’s reading those affirmations. And it might mean that you have to play this back you know, play this recording back and just listen to them. In fact, what I’m gonna do at the end is I’m gonna say ’em again so that they’re, you can, if you just need to like fast forward and you just wanna play these, I I’m, I’m gonna read ’em again. And, and then the third thing is that you have to replace your choices. You gotta replace your choices and give yourself art alternatives be in different circumstances, environments. And I I do have one last thing I wanna share with you too. But before I do that, let me go ahead and read, read these affirmations for you one more time. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work.
RV (13:39):
Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to compete towards achieving my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol, alcohol weakens my decision making alcohol makes me vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the risk of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I’ll eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement account. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me more to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the Lord.
RV (14:58):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to have a drink in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or not at all alcohol, lengthens the time of my necessary working career to pay off all that it has caused me. And alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me that I care about. Here’s what I want you to know. Today is the hardest it will ever be. Today is the hardest it will ever be. It is the hardest right now. The more that you play those affirmations back, you listen to ’em, you recite them, you repeat them, the more your programming will change. And it may be hard to imagine now, but I’m telling you, it is possible that you will wake up one day.
RV (16:03):
And what once was something that all you wanted, all you could think about later in the future, is something you don’t even notice. You don’t want it, you’re not attracted to it. The key is to rewrite that underlying programming. Not to try to lie to yourself and say, oh, I, I, you know, not to deny yourself something that really deep down you’re saying you want and just temporarily disallowing it from yourself, but getting under the root and, and, and rewriting a program that says there’s a different program here and I’m gonna rewrite it because I want to be a different person. Not for anybody else, not for any other reason necessarily, but you’re making the decision that you wanna do it because something that’s important to you. Now, there might be someone else in your life that matters, but it’s, it’s not that that person’s telling you to do it, it’s that you are choosing to do it because that person matters to you.
RV (16:57):
But this is the hardest that it’ll ever be. And I, I I promise you that if you do these things and you think this way and you work in this direction, it will get easier and easier. So I’m not sure who this was for, but I felt called to put it out there. So whether this is for you or a loved one, someone, please feel free to share it and please don’t feel judged. This isn’t about judgment. This isn’t about right and wrong and good and bad. This is just about my journey. Overcoming something that I decided wasn’t the right healthy thing for me and how I did that in case you or someone you know, wants to make that same decision. Thanks for tuning it in.
Ep 346: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 1
RV (00:08):
All right, podcast friend. We have a special interruption, I guess a deviation from the norm, an extreme circumstance and an unusual broadcast situation here. I recently recorded a video on how I stopped drinking. And it was three strategies for how I stopped drinking. And I don’t know why exactly, I don’t know who this is for, but I have felt called to share my personal story about how I stopped drinking six years ago and specific, you know, specifically how, like what I did, why I made that change, but also how I, I was able to do that, which was important for me. So this has nothing to do with personal branding, really. This has nothing to do. This is not at all the normal format of our podcast. For me to share something like this is very, very un unusual.
RV (01:10):
This is a tremendously personal I guess you would say vulnerable unexpected thing for me to be sharing. But I follow the promptings that I feel led to, and for some reason I feel led to this one. So, if you’re, this is the first time you’ve ever listened to this show you’re welcome to listen to this, to this, to this episode. And we may break it into a couple parts cuz it was a little, a little bit long. But, you know, this is not what we normally cover here on this show. Normally we’re, we’re, we’re talking to people about how to, you know, expand their reach, become more well known, make a bigger impact, make, make more income, and grow their influence in the world. And, and I guess, you know, there is a little bit of a tie, which is if, if you know, one of the things that I believe deeply is that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character.
RV (02:05):
Before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And this story that I’m gonna share about how I stopped drinking six years ago and why, and how it all went and how it all happened, and then specifically the, the strategies that I, I used through that own sort of personal development are are related to my character. Okay? I’m not saying that you, if you, you don’t like, if you drink, you have your person of weak character at all. Not whatsoever at all. Aj, my wife, my bus, our business partner, my business partner, our ceo, you know, she, she, she drinks to this day. But it is, for me, this was an important journey about that I felt I needed to go on to, to strengthen and fortify my personal character. And so that’s why we decided to share it with you is, is not so much about going, Hey, we think you need to, to learn how to stop drinking.
RV (02:59):
You may not drink at all. Or maybe you do and it’s, you know, not a big deal or like, you know, maybe you do a lot and it, it’s not affecting like, you know, whatever, like, whatever your attitude is. It’s, this is not about saying, Hey, you should stop doing this. This is my story about how I created a, a, a significant behavior change in my life and, and, and created new habits and, and new behaviors that is tied, at least was for me, tied to my personal character and is also tied to taking action and creating change and, and making, at least in my case, you know, what I felt was the move to make myself a stronger person. And so, you know, maybe this is relevant to you, like hyper relevant. Maybe it’s relevant for someone, you know, but I think what makes it relevant to all of us, and and, and to you at, at least on some level is, is twofold.
RV (03:48):
One, it is realizing this connection that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And that’s really, really important because your, your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. Your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. That’s something that my pastor shared with me a couple years ago, and I found that to be really true. But for all of us, we’re always trying to make changes. We’re trying to create some behavior change, some pattern change to get ourselves or our business to the next level. And so I think listening to the psychology of what, how I’m creating that change and I’m, I’m leaning on the psychology that you know, I’ve spent a lot of my life developing, which is the psychology of helping people take action and, and build discipline and do things they don’t wanna do.
RV (04:38):
And, and that’s something I’ve, you know, spent a career studying. So, you know, listen to it more from that angle. Like, if, if you’re not someone who struggles with alcohol in whatever way, I’d listen to it, listen to it from that angle, or just, you might just skip past this episode. If you don’t want to get all, all up close and, and personal with me. So again, I, this is a, this is a break from the norm. Just wanted to give you a heads up and a warning. Just fair warning that this is not our standard programming and it’s not a permanent change in our programming. Like we’re, we, we’re, we’re continuing on with our normal format, but not that I wanted to share with you and at least give you a little bit of a look into this part of my life, which was a, which was a powerful and, and important journey. So anyways, I hope you, I hope you enjoy.
RV (05:23):
So about six years ago I stopped drinking alcohol, and I’m gonna tell you a little bit about why I did that, but specifically I wanna share with you three strategies for how I did that. Now, I wanna let you know up front, I’m not against drinking. I don’t believe that it means you’re bad or immoral or any of those things. If you do it, I did it for a long time. I honestly don’t know why I’m sharing this with you, but I feel called to share some of this story with you. You and so I just, I wanna make sure you know up front that I if you drink, this isn’t a slam against you or meant, you know, or anybody aj. Aj my wife drinks and she still drinks. And you know, I have friends, friends that do, so it’s not about that.
RV (06:15):
But I just wanna share three reasons, or not three reasons. I gonna three, three strategies for how I stopped drinking about six years ago. So let’s dive in. Here they are, I’m gonna give ’em to you right up front. So first of all, the, the, the very first strategy is to redefine your identity. Redefine your identity, which is all about figuring out why. And so I’m gonna talk through seven reasons why I stopped drinking and how that sort of came about. Then the second strategy is to rewrite your own programming. And we’ll get into the details of that. I’m gonna share with you an affirmations list that I use, which is really a huge part of what changed my life. And then the third thing is to replace your choices. And there’s two specific types of choices that I replaced in my life that made have made a huge difference.
RV (07:12):
And I’ll share with you what both of those are. So first of all, let’s talk about replacing your identity. And to me, this is really key because if you wanna make any change in your life, you have to start thinking of yourself as a different person, because that’s literally what change means. Change means I’m becoming a different person. I’m, I’m on my way to being someone that is different than I am, or especially than I have been. And in order to do that, it’s going to be, it’s gonna require work, it’s gonna require effort, it’s gonna require intention and discipline, which means it’s gonna be difficult and probably, or at least uncomfortable or, you know, unfamiliar at the least. And so you really need to know why you’re doing what you wanna be doing. Like, I, I think, I think here’s a, here’s what I think is not a great reason to stop being drinking to stop drinking is cuz it’s like, oh, other people think I should stop drinking.
RV (08:15):
I, I actually don’t think that’s a great, the greatest reason why you should. I, I think any change that you make in your life has to be one and should be one that you are making, that you are choosing it. And so you are the one taking agency of your own life. And it’s not cuz you think you’re supposed to or cuz someone said that, you know, somebody threatened you with something, this or that. It’s because whatever has happened, you’ve come to a place where you’ve said, I wanna make this type of change in my life. I wanna make some type of change. And so really this applies to all types of changes. And so I think in order to do that work, in order to take the stairs to, to steal the, the title and metaphor of my first book you, it’s gonna be a journey.
RV (09:01):
And so you need to really understand why you’re doing it. And so I’m gonna share with you these are seven reasons why I decided to stop drinking. So and this happened about six years ago. The last time I had alcohol was the night that AJ told me we were pregnant with my son Jasper, with our oldest son Jasper. So at the time of this recording, that was, you know, six over six years ago, which is crazy that it’s been that long. And, and you also should know that like I drank a lot before that. Was I an alcoholic? I don’t know, I guess depends on what the definition of an alcoholic was. I never went in treatment. I didn’t miss work. You know, maybe if I was, I was, I guess what someone maybe call a high functioning alcoholic, but I once heard the definition that an alcoholic is someone who simply drinks to get drunk.
RV (09:56):
They drink for the purpose of getting drunk. By that definition, I was an alcoholic because that was the only reason I was drinking was to get drunk. It wasn’t like, oh, I like the taste of this more than any number of other things I could drink and that’s why I’m doing it. Or like, I, I’m not, I was never interested in like the making of alcohol or, you know, how it happened or like the hobby of, of of, of how it was crafted, right? Like it was, no, I’m drinking for the purpose of feeling a certain way or escaping a feeling that I was feeling. So, you know, I guess by that definition maybe I was, but I personally, you know, was never, I guess had a place where you might say I was outta control where it was affecting my, you know, my, I don’t know, I don’t know what the measure of that that would be.
RV (10:46):
So, but by some definitions I was. But you know, obviously if, if this is something you’re struggling with or a loved one is struggling with, you should consult with, you know, a mental health professional. And I never was really at that point. So again, I just share in my story here. I’m not sure who needs to hear this, but so here’s seven reasons why I stopped. Okay? So first of all, regret reduction. Regret reduction. You know, as I, as I thought about this whole journey and, and you know, I should say that the catalyst for this was solidarity with aj, right? The ca the catalyst for me stopping wasn’t, it was these seven reasons, but it wasn’t like something massive happened in my, well, I guess finding out you’re gonna be a dad is pretty massive, but like, I didn’t have this, you know, blow up or, you know, hit rock bottom kind of moment.
RV (11:35):
It was just like, you know, she said I was gonna be a dad and she wasn’t gonna drink for nine months. And so I said, all right, I’m just gonna stop drinking with, with you. And then I just never picked it back up. And at first it was really hard, like the first couple weeks were really hard and the first couple months were hard and then it got easier. And that’s something I think you should know, or if, if somebody, you know is, is struggling with an addiction of some type I’m certainly not an expert on addiction, but I have spent a life studying the psychology of, of self-discipline and overcoming procrastination and moving people to action and overcoming inaction. And so what I know from that work as well as my own life is it’s the har today is the hardest it’s ever gonna be.
RV (12:26):
Like, the day that you set out on the change is it’s that that’s the hardest, but it becomes easier o o over over time. So you should know that. But for me, when I was looking back, a hundred percent of the regrets that I had ever had in my life were from when I was drunk. Like, I actually realized that, that as I thought back over the course of my life and I was thinking about, you know, all the, all the, the poor decisions that I had made, all the stupid things that I have said, most of the really dumb things that I had had done, probably all of the dumbest things that I had done. Like, I literally as I, I didn’t have a ton of regrets in my life, but I, I had some big ones. And in all of them, every single regret I had in my life was from, from when I was drunk.
RV (13:21):
And so I thought, well, gosh, if I don’t want regrets, maybe if I could stop doing this, you know, if I stop drinking, maybe I’ll have fewer regrets in my life. And, and it’s just a, it’s just a, a reduction of the chance, right? So it’s like the chance of me ever getting a DUI goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking the, the chance of me ever engaging in sexual immorality or, you know, breaking trust with my wife or having an affair or something, it goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking or I’m not drunk it, it’s not impossible, right? But the likelihood I’m, I’m playing the odds, and this is how I structure my whole life. This is how I structure business is, is, you know, the strategies, the techniques we teach to help people make money, it’s all about, like, nothing is guaranteed, but there’s these principles of success and these principles that are true. And you go, man, if you adopt these into your life, you’re just sort of like playing the odds. And so I thought, man, I’m certainly going to improve the odds in my favor of of, of not having, of having through regrets in my life if I stop drinking. The second thing honestly was mental health. And, and here’s what I mean specifically.
RV (14:33):
I’ll never forget one time I actually said these words out loud. Like, I, these, these words came outta my mouth and there was something about the way I said it that really locked me up and it captured me and it, and it caught my, it like caught my attention. It was like a slap across the face. Like I, it made me go, whoa. And here’s what, here’s what I said to someone. I don’t even remember the scenario. All I remember is what I said. I said, you know, I just have more fun when I’m drunk.
RV (15:10):
And bam, just like that, like when there was just something where I said, when I said, I just have more fun when I’m drunk. That hit me so hard because I realized, wow, the, the however I have structured my life, like whatever choices I’ve made, whoever I’m around, whatever I’m doing, whatever, you know, goals, I’m pursuing business, I’m involved with, like whatever my physical health is, wherever I am at the, like, I have the most fun when I’m drunk. That felt like a risky orientation of my life. It felt like a risky orientation of my happiness. It felt like a risky orientation of, of my mental health to go, I have to be drunk in order to be experiencing my highest level of happiness. And it was a very sobering moment because I realized that’s not how I wanna live. I wanna be able to be happy without this.
RV (16:16):
I wanna be able to be happy every moment of every day with, with without any substances like that. I want my own attitude and my own mindset to be in charge of my own health and happiness. I don’t want dependency on something else for my, for, for my happiness other than, you know, I’m a I’m a I’m a Christian, so, you know, my relationship with God is super important, but like outside of that, my own happiness, I want to be independent of things that are happening around me. I don’t want my circumstances to dictate my happiness. I certainly don’t want substances to dictate my happiness and what I realized for myself, right? I can’t say this for everybody. All I’m all I’m talking about today. I said just Sharon with you, my own journey here, which was sort of an accidental journey a little bit like, you know, just an unexpected journey is, is is that I realized that I diluted my bodys own ability to deal with stress and pain and heartbreak and struggle because I was medicating with alcohol.
RV (17:26):
So I, you know, there are ways that you process stress and grief and, and heartbreak and setbacks and rejection and life. Like, life is difficult. Like for everybody. Life is so, life is hard, man, like, so difficult. And, and what I realized was, oh, somehow along the way, and just you, I, it wasn’t like I was crazy into, into doing bad stuff all the time. I just started drinking, you know, a little bit in high school and then more in college, and then a lot more later in college. And then, you know, I had some money and it was more, and then I was a young professional. I was traveling all over, I was flying first class and, you know, I was speaking and stuff and, and it was just like, it was just always available. And so it was just happening a lot. But I, at some point I had developed accidentally a dependency on this substance to help me resolve stress, to help me deal with rejection, to help me deal with frustration.
RV (18:34):
And so this substance was the thing that I was using for that. And so I was disallowing my body’s natural ability and from forcing itself to deal with those things in a healthy way. And so I was doing this unhealthy thing. And so I was like, man, I want non dependency. I want to be in charge of my own happiness. I want my attitude to dictate how I feel. I, I wanna be in charge. I don’t wanna be dependent on something else, regardless of whether what the something is. I don’t want something else to be responsible for my happiness. I want to be responsible for my happiness. So that was the second reason was mental health. The third reason was actually very practical. It was financial savings,
RV (19:33):
And so they were tracking stuff and they had this line that was like, alcohol and it was thousands of dollars. And if you would’ve told me at the start of the year, oh, you know, Rory is someone who spends thousands of dollars on alcohol, I’d been like, no way. You’re crazy. Like, I have drinks here and there. And then looking at it added up and black and white, it was like, holy moly, I spend thousands of dollars on this. Thousands of dollars, right? Cuz you know, a drink might be, I don’t know, eight bucks, 10 bucks, 12 bucks. If you’re in Vegas, it’s 25 bucks. Like, and you go, ah, you know, a bottle of wine here and there is 20 bucks, 30 bucks. Like you know, you have martinis, you go out on the lake, you do the birthday parties and, and, and, you know, well, couple glasses of wine with dinner.
RV (20:21):
And again, I’m not judging anybody, I’m just sharing my story of going, for me, it added up. And specifically, it wasn’t just thousands of dollars, it was the opportunity cost of going, what if I would’ve spent those thousands of dollars instead of spending on alcohol? What if I would’ve invested that into my own education, into my own personal development? Like, if I would’ve used that money to go to conferences or travel the world or, or even waste and like blow on silly, you know, stuff like I, you know, whatever shirts and, and and, and, and clothes and like, you know, trips or, or TVs or whatever. Like, and then specifically was like, what if I would’ve invested that money? You know? Like if I would’ve taken a few thousand bucks every year from the time, let’s say from the time I was like 20 to 25, if I would take, say it was 2000 bucks every year from age 20 to 25 and invested that, and I would’ve had like that 10 grand invested, it would grow to be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time I was retirement age, like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
RV (21:22):
So I was just, that was one for me where I was like, okay, yeah. Like this is crazy. It’s crazy. It’s costing me, it’s costing me money. The fourth thing was competitive advantage. And I gotta give a shout out here to my man Lewis house because Lewis was one of the people, there were several people in my life that I met who were really high performing individuals. And as I got to know them, I was like, oh, this person doesn’t drink. And I was almost surprised. I was like, wow, I didn’t even know you could, like, it was almost like being successful in business meant you had to like drink at the golf course or drink at the happy hour or, or you know, drink at the award ceremony or drink on the airplane together or like go out for drinks and, and you know, everyone get together and you buy, buy drinks.
RV (22:09):
If you no, if you do so about stuff, it’s fine. But it was just like, it was crazy that somehow my default had become that that was mandatory. Like that it was just that you had to do it. And then I met some of these other people, one, one of ’em being Lewis, who was just this amazing guy who was co accomplishing big things in the world and he wanted to help people. He had these huge visions. What’s funny now, like all of ’em are coming true, but like back in the day it was like, you know, it was as many people who knew him and knew me and we were kind of up and coming and it was like, wow, this guy’s really cool, and, and he doesn’t drink. And so I asked him about it one time and he was just like, you know, look, you know, the way he described it to me was he was like, he was an athlete and he was like, I’m looking for every competitive advantage that I can get.
RV (22:56):
And so that was the fourth reason for me was like, competitive advantage of just going, okay, like separate morality, separate physicality. If you just look at it peer like ambition and success of like, who, what am I gonna, who am I, what am I gonna achieve someday? And, and what can I be capable of someday? And you go, okay, these are the goals I have in my life. And again, you go, does alcohol increase my odds of achieving these goals or decrease my odds? For me, it was like decreases the odds. And it was like, yeah, if all things being equal, okay, and I don’t, I’m not super competitive with other people. I’m pretty competitive with myself, but I’m not super competitive with other people. But if you just thought about, and you said, okay, if there’s three people in the race, all things being equal, and you go, if I’m a non dreger, does that give me a competitive advantage for me?
RV (23:50):
I was like, yeah, it probably does. Like it probably does. So, so why not? So that, that was a, that was a epiphany, which is kind of close to the fifth one. So the fifth one was physical vigilance. Physical vigilance. This was the fifth reason why, you know, thinking back, I stopped, I stopped drinking and I met a, a friend, or we had a friend named Navy Seal Joe and Navy Seal Joe was a Navy Seal for 24 years and he did 13 combat tours. You know, he’s running life and death missions. And he said to me, and he, he didn’t drink, and he and I, I asked him about it one time and he said, he said, it’s real simple, Rory, when you’re in Navy Seal you realize, you know your life At any moment you could be in a life or death situation like snap of a fingers, your Navy seal it.
RV (24:43):
There’s, you know, like the Marine, the Marines, the marines say no easy day, right? There’s no easy day. Like at any moment you can find yourself suddenly in a life or death situation. And he said, and I had to realize that like even once he was out of the military, the same was true, right? You can be walking down the street and in a split second, somebody walks up behind you, you’re in a life and death situation. You can be driving a car and something jumps out in front of the road and you split second, you’re in a life and death situation. You know, someone says something to you and you reacted the the wrong way to, it could be a loved one, could be a stranger. You suddenly might be finding yourself in a situation that could alter the trajectory of your life. And so he was saying that there were these moments that we never know when they’re gonna come up, but they could happen at any moment, right?
RV (25:31):
You could be, you know, tornado hurt, like, you know, hurricane, it could be volcano, could be a physical encounter, could be your, your house catches on fire and you go, are you prepared? Right? Like, if I’m drunk, does that make me prepared for that moment? For me, it was like, no, that feels not the case. It’s the opposite, right? It’s the opposite. And so I never wanted to be caught in a moment where I was like, whoa, I have handicapped my own ability to, you know, maximize the likelihood of a positive outcome in some type of a life or death situation. So it’s physical vigilance. It’s very similar. One time I remember a man came up to me after speaking he, he had read Take the Stairs and he was like, Roy, I really love the book, et cetera. And he said, you know, I doesn’t look this way, but I, I I lost 120 pounds.
RV (26:29):
And I said, wow, that’s crazy. How did you do this? And he told me, he said, well, you know, it’s amazing. It’s really like, how did I gain it? At first he was like, all I did was I got married 10 years ago and I gained a pound a month. Okay? So that’s 12 pounds a year. And I did that every year for 10 years. That’s 120 pounds. Like all I did was gain a pound a month. I did that consistently for 10 years. I’m 120 pounds overweight. And I said, well, so what happened? And he and I said, you know, what’s the diet like? What was the diet program? What was your exercise regimen like? What, what’d you, what’d you do? He said, it wasn’t any of that. He said, I had a friend whose house caught on fire and this guy’s house was burning down in the middle of the night and he had a wife and he had two kids and he had to make a decision in the middle of the night in that environment, which of his family members he was gonna carry out to safety.
RV (27:29):
And he told me, he said, in that moment, I made a de a decision that I would rather die than have to make that choice. And so I had to be in a position physically where I was strong enough to carry out all of my family. If that situation happened, I would have to be able to go room to room and pick them all up and, and, and make it out of the house. And so he said, that was the thought that moved me. It was this, the same idea of physical vigilance like that, that, that I’m ready at any moment before, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m most ready or I’m best optimized for any moment. The six is spiritual guidance. I don’t wanna spend too much time on this one cuz I don’t, I don’t want you to think that like, you know, you’re, you’re in spirit, you’re unspiritual if if you drink, you know, you’re not, I mean, Jesus, you know, his first miracle
RV (28:26):
But there, you know, when I, I look through you know, I, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m a man of God. I read the word and that’s, that’s my source of truth. And I was looking in first Peter five eight, and it says, be alert and of sober mind because the enemy, the, your enemy, the devil pros around like a roaring line looking for someone to devour, resist him, stand firm in your faith. Because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. And it’s like be alert and of sober mind, right? That’s a warning in Romans 12, one it says, therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters in view of God’s mercy, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice. Holy in pleasing to God. This is true and proper worship. And you know, again, it’s like, doesn’t mean you can’t ever drink or even that maybe you shouldn’t get drunk.
RV (29:18):
It just means like, I’m being mindful of the idea that, okay, like if, if my body is supposed to be, my life is, you know, a dedication to the Lord, you know, there’s some spiritual, there’s spiritual impacts here. This is not a salvation issue, by the way, just to make that super clear. Drinking or not drinking has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. There’s, there’s, that’s a whole different story. You know, speaking, you know, of the Christian faith that has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. The Bible to me is, is not a rule book, it’s an instruction manual. Though for how you live and you know how to get the most out of living and, you know, these are things that I saw in there. So you know, that mattered to me.
RV (29:57):
And then the seven thing was just setting an example, setting an example an an an example setting for my boys, you know, and just going, you know, my dad was an alcoholic, his dad was an alcoholic. Like it ran in our family. And again, like a couple drinks here and there, whatever, I mean, this is all for you, for you to sort out. Like but for me it was again saying like, who do I want my boys to see? Me being? Who do I want them to see me being? What do I want them to see me doing, knowing not so much that I’m concerned with what they think about me, all that’s, although that’s important, but what concerned me more is knowing that whatever it is that I do is likely to give them permission for them to do in their own life.
RV (30:56):
And even if I am spared from ever becoming an alcoholic or become, you know, getting to the place where it, it really is, is is ruling my life, they might not be so lucky and I don’t wanna be a part of any part of contributing to that right now. My boys are gonna drink one day. I mean, maybe I’ll have a drink with them one day. I don’t know. Like but it’s, it’s like, it’s just setting that example and also, you know, helping other people that are cool and, and people realizing that you can actually be cool without doing this. You could be successful without doing this. You can rise in the corporate ranks without doing this because, which is weird to even think we have to say that, but somehow the, the world is at the place where you kind of have to say it cuz it’s more like, we think the opposite of like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s weird to not drink.
RV (31:51):
Like you’re the unusual one if you’re not drinking, not the other way around. Like, it’s more normal, it’s more customary to be drinking and you can apply this to any type of indulgence, right? You know, the same things for like, you know, whatever, any type of abuse, not abuse indulgence abuse of in like a, of a substance, substance abuse is what I’m saying, or indulgence of, of some type. You know, so just, you know, that’s my identity. That’s why is going, who do I wanna be? And that’s what you gotta figure out for yourself is just who do I wanna be? And, and is this helping me or is it out? And if it’s, if it’s fine, like if it’s under control and you go, okay, yeah, it’s fine, it’s under control, fine. You know, it’s, it’s, no one should be judging you except you.
RV (32:36):
Like, it’s, it’s all up to you to decide what feels right. All right. So interruption, pause, stop the recording, stop the tape, stop the video. Stop, stop. Apologize for this interruption, but it sounds like I’ve got more to say on this topic than I anticipated. And I, again, I have no idea why I’m doing this. I just for some reason feel called to share this story with the world. But I, I’ve got more to say, in fact a lot more to say than some really, really practical tips and like actual tactical things that you can do or that I did to help me stop drink to, to help me stop drinking. So I am gonna share those with you, but we decided that, hey, this is a good place to pause and draw part one to a conclusion.
RV (33:30):
And we’ll sort of like wrap part one and then stay tuned and we will, we will bring you part two. I will not leave you hanging, but I just wanted to interrupt myself here for a moment and say there’s more to come. And if you’re, if you’re getting value out of this or if you think it’s useful for someone that, you know, that fills me up. I guess that’s really ultimately the only reason why I’m doing this. But we’re gonna split it into two different sections. So this lands the plane on part one and we’ll make sure obviously that we send out part two very, very, very soon. Make it easy for you to find. Thanks so much.
Ep 329: Authenticity as Your New Competitive Advantage with Erin Hatzikostas | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, y’all and welcome to my recap episode on my conversation with Erin hatzicostas. Now she’s got me all triggered about how to say her last name, cuz I’ve been calling her Erin hot Costas for forever and then she said cost us. So now I’m all insecure about it. But seriously, if you did not listen to this interview, I really suggest that you go. And I don’t say that just because it’s an interview. I think you should listen to, even though it is that it’s, it just it’s really universal. And it, it touches the core of, I think of a lot of what of us, a lot of what we all struggle with, who you’ve ever thought, do I really deserve this? Or am I living some imposter life or I’m not good enough? Or I have to be something I’m not in order for people to like me or respect for, or respect me or follow me.
AJV (01:43):
This is the episode for you, cuz it’s all about using authenticity as a part of your leadership strategy. And I love it. I love her. I think she is authentic. I also think she’s just an awesome human being. It’s a really great interview. I really recommend that you go and listen to it. But with all that said here are four, four things that I took away from this conversation that I thought were really worthy to come back and recap in this conversation. I loved what she said. She said that, you know, when she left corporate America and she was a corporate CEO for years but when she left corporate America to like kind of go out on her own as a coach, speaker, consultant, entrepreneur, podcaster, author, all these things she, for a long time, didn’t want to be labeled as a coach or a trainer, a consultant or speaker because she had this like preconceived notion of what that was.
AJV (02:37):
And I loved what she said about it. And she said, it took me a long time to get here. But here’s what I would do today. Here’s the advice that I would give someone today. It’s don’t not do something because you hated the way that you saw someone else do it. And in the middle of that is you know, the foundation, the gen Genesis of some authenticity, it said don’t define what something is because of one way that you saw it done that you’re like, well, I don’t wanna do that. Or I don’t wanna be that. Well, it’s like, don’t,
AJV (03:28):
Oh my gosh. I thought that was so good because I can think of so many times or so many things where I haven’t done something because I was like, oh, I didn’t like that. Or I didn’t like the way they did. It’s like, so what do it differently? Or get it done by someone else? That doesn’t mean you don’t have to like the whole thing just because you didn’t like the way it was done by one particular person or company or organization, do it differently, be authentic and do it in the way that feels you. Then this was a second big highlight for me is we talked about, well, what is authenticity? Like, what’s your definition of authenticity? And I think this is really interesting because I think sometimes that word can be overused, but in a way where it’s not really explained very well, right.
AJV (04:14):
I hear the word, you know, be authentic and you know, show authenticity. But it’s like, what does that really mean? Because it’s like, there’s all different types of internal translations we can make with things like that. And it’s like, just do you be you? And I loved, oh my gosh, I love this so much. I literally have it written down. I’m gonna share the whole team. But on a PostIt note of my wall, I’m gonna do something with this. Cause she said, authenticity is exposing who you really are when people least expect it. That is authenticity. Oh my gosh. That is so good. Like exposing who you really are, the moment that people least expected, what an amazing definition of authenticity. And then she followed it up and she said, it’s not just being yourself. Sure. That’s a part of it. And it’s not just being transparent.
AJV (05:05):
Right? authenticity and transparency are two different things with two different definitions. You cannot be too authentic, but you can be too transparent. Right. I think that’s really an important distinction, right? Authenticity and transparency. They’re different things. Right? I thought the other thing that she said I thought was brilliant is that it’s not about you. It’s really not. It’s about creating trust with other people by being more vulnerable and humble and you in the moment. And I thought that was really good. It’s like authenticity. Isn’t about you just putting it all out there for the world to take it all in. Being authentic is about creating a trust, a trusted environment. An environment of intrigue and curiosity, even with other people, by being more vulnerable, by being more honest. And by being more humble in the moment, going back to her definition, which is authenticity is exposing who you really are when people least expected mind blown.
AJV (06:17):
I love that so much. And quite honestly, that allows me to attach a whole new meaning to authenticity and being authentic, being authentic. Isn’t just being me. No, it’s being more of me in the right moments where people least expect it. That allows me to show my humanity. And it also allows me to show my imperfections, right. I love what she said. Her son says that she’s a imperfection. And we all are. We are all imperfections. We are not perfect, but it allows me to be more imper, imperfect, which naturally should make me more human and more relatable and more personable to those around me. I need that. We all need that. So, so good. Then we followed it up with about authenticity is not a permission. It’s a power. And I think I often hear some people you know, kind of roll their eyes at authenticity as like, is this some woo woo female feminist crap.
AJV (07:17):
AJV (08:20):
And also the fact that we just were really blessed to have the opportunity to have this conversation on this show and, and use it in a way that will make us all feel more ourselves and more human when we’re looking at those around us. Right. and then the last thing we did was that we talked about this awesome study that she just did was like did this national research study on authenticity in the workplace. So cool. I love this idea. I love the results. I love this study. The data is so amazing and so helpful and empowering as a leader or a business owner. But also really empowering as a, as a teammate, as an employee, as someone who just has human relationships and, and deals with communication, which is all of us. But one of the things that I thought was really fascinating is one of the key takeaways was the parallel between authentic cultures and talent retention, which is just a really hot topic right now, right.
AJV (09:18):
Everyone is talking about how do I retain talent? How do I, you know, recruit and retain really good people. And there is a direct correlation with, do you have an authentic culture where people can be themselves in the moment where there is humility and vulnerability and the ability to just get it straight with no facades and no pretending. Is there that, and if there is you have a higher chance of talent retention versus is this a culture where we just don’t talk about those things, you know, don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t really ever get to know your leaders. Don’t ever really get to know your executives. And if you have that, you have a very high chance of quick turnover. So let that sit in for a minute. If you have any sort of employees or team members, or even even run a volunteer organization, it’s people don’t have to stay. There’s lots of options, especially right now where everyone is hiring. So how can you use authenticity as your main retention tool with your team? Y’all check out this interview check out Erin Hatzicostas you can go to B authentic, Inc. That’s just the letter B authentic ink.com. You can check her out, follow her, get this study. It’s amazing. Go listen to it, put it into practice and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 328: Authenticity as Your New Competitive Advantage with Erin Hatzikostas
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming, uh, at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey everyone. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand pod. This is AJ Vaden. I am one of your co-hosts here and I get the, uh, the honor and the privilege of getting to introduce you, uh, to a good friend of mine. Um, at Erin OSIS, you’re gonna get to learn all about her in just a few minutes and some really cool stuff that she’s got going on, and I will give her a formal introduction, but for all of you listening, uh, I want you to know why you need to stick around and listen to this episode. You know, we have had a mini guests on in the past that talk about research. Um, and today we’re gonna talk about not just research, but how research impacts you in your business right now today. Uh, we’re gonna be talking about the research on authenticity in the workplace.
AJV (01:45):
So to me it does not matter if you’re an employee, an employer, if you are so entrepreneur, entrepreneur, or anything in between, like this impacts you, right? We’ve heard it said before that, uh, data data is the real unique differentiator in the marketplace today. And I’m a big believer in that. I’m a big proponent in that it’s like data is the differentiator and Erin has gone out and done this amazing study on authenticity in the workplace. And I think that there’s some really interesting talk right now about the workplace and you know, what they’ve been calling the great resignation. Uh, and I don’t really know if that’s the right term, right? I don’t know if that’s the right term. I love what Ariana Huffington says. It’s not the great resignation is the great reevaluation. And I think looking at authenticity in the workplace and what does that even mean?
AJV (02:36):
And how does it, how does it impact our employees, our employers and the companies at large is a really important discussion to have. So again, it doesn’t matter if you are a staff of zero or a staff of 1000, this interview, this research, uh, this does pertain to you. So I hope you stick around, uh, and make it all the way to the end, because also Erin’s gonna give you a really cool link to download this data, to help you take that back to your everyday business. So without further ado, uh, I’ll give you just a quick highlight. Um, but Erin Hatzikostas is a former corporate CEO, turned professional pot stir in her own words. She is also the founder, uh, and CEO of be authentic, Inc. And as a bestselling author, she’s a TEDx speaker, she’s a podcast, a podcast host. And, uh, what she calls a, coachs a coach coach salted
EH (03:53):
Thank you so much. And like most people I have such a, I have such a girl crush on you, AJ. So it’s so jam out for a little bit, have you all to myself slash, you know, share you with thousands of people.
AJV (04:04):
Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to have this conversation. I really love having conversations with friends more than anything else, because I get to bring in like some of like the behind the scenes context of what makes you so awesome as a human being. And you don’t always get to do that when you have, you know, a quote unquote complete stranger on. Um, so it’s really always a treat when I get to, I have a friend on the show and, uh, talk about all the cool things you have going on, but then also just to help the audience, get to know the awesomeness that is, you know, these amazing people that we get to do life with. So I’m so excited. And so in an effort to help our audience get to know you just a little bit, can you give everyone a brief backstory of kinda how you got to where you are right from?
AJV (04:50):
You know, you’ve been a big corporate CEO and you’ve led teams of thousands of humans, and you’ve worked for really big corporations. And you’ve now been on the other side as a speaker and an entrepreneur and an author. Like we didn’t even have that in your bio. You’re the author of this awesome book. And you’ve got all these cool things going on, but those are like two pretty different lives. And so it’d be awesome to hear, like give us some context and some background of like this, you know, quote unquote, former life as this corporate CEO, why this shift and how did you end up here talking about authenticity in the workplace?
EH (05:27):
Oh, uh, I’d love to, and so first the first thing I have to say though, is, you know, quick story, my son, about six months ago, he was just like making a bagel in the kitchen and he is like, mom, do you know what a perfectionist is? And I was like, yeah. And he’s like, you’re an imperfection
EH (06:26):
Um, but the good news is it was a great company. It was a big company and, and much like a lot of your listeners, you know, I was able to sort of Bob and weave my way through some, some opportunities take on things I was highly unqualified to do. Um, but never once did I, you know, I have this career path, like I wanna be an executive or I wanna be a CEO. You know, I was small town girl, Northern Michigan, you know, got good grades, but didn’t know really much about, you know, running a company. Um, but, but I did find myself at one of the subsidiary companies that they had acquired and not found myself, I strategically went there and, um, was just lucky enough over the years, every time somebody would leave, they basically were like, look to their left and right.
EH (07:07):
And they’d be like, well, I guess we should give it to Erin. Um, and that happened all the way up till, you know, I took on the CEO position and, uh, I let a company, I was about a thousand people and we we’re kind of in the dumps, you know, financials had been flat for years. We were quite frankly, kind of the laughing stock of the company. It was a, it was an acquisition gone bad, a typical, like let’s bring in this great new sexy company and then give them, you know, no money and resources to do what they need to do to be successful. And, um, I took over in 2016 and I’m just really proud to say that in three years, uh, we took those flat earnings that we had been having and we tripled them and our employee employee engagement went up 12 percentage points.
EH (07:51):
Like we became kind of the darling actually of the parent company and all along the way as I was having success, I also would often think, I wonder what I’m gonna be found out. Hmm. And it, it wasn’t Asia. It, wasn’t your typical like imposter syndrome. Like I, I understood you kind of had to lean in a little further than you were comfortable. I understood the, you know, I, I, I felt like I had the intellectual chops. I had the relationships like, but it was more that I felt like I wasn’t sacrificing as much as my peers, you know, my, my other colleagues were traveling every week for, you know, client meetings. They were giving up vacations. They were, you know, I had one friend that moved her family like three times and like six years to sort of climb the ladder. And I thought, I don’t know how long my luck’s gonna run out with having this much success and not sacrificing as much as everybody else.
EH (08:45):
And, and so then, you know, I, I led the company for three years, decided I really was craving exponential growth that I couldn’t find there. And I didn’t think I would find it in the corporate world. And what happened was when I, when I announced my retirement, like 75% of the messages and conversations said the same thing they said, we’re gonna miss your authentic leadership. And I, it’s not that I was surprised like, Ooh, who me authentic, like it’s, but I hadn’t really been pinned with that badge before. And after all those messages, it was like, there was this moment where I was like, wait a minute. I’m not gonna be found out. I’ve been actually playing a different game than everybody else. And I started to realize that I had subconsciously, but pretty purposely used authenticities. And now what I actually have figured out how to teach, but I had used them to gain the best talent to, uh, negotiate deals, to stand out to the executives, you know, going to quarterly business reviews.
EH (09:50):
And everybody else was like giving the propaganda. And I was telling a story or I was telling them where we were, you know, pooping the bag and it really gained trust and St stood out. And so after stumbling my retirement, I went and did kind of something else, quote, unquote, started a software company, which I didn’t really build anything. But, um, and you know, I think this is really important. I had thought about doing the career and leadership space. I think this is actually really, really important for the audience. One of the buckets I considered was this career leadership space that I’m in, because I knew I had a lot to give and that I would do well, but I didn’t wanna do it. And here’s why, because in my head there were thousands of them and they were sort of a dime a dozen.
EH (10:32):
Right. And this is before I had heard of the concept of personal branding and doing, doing it differently. And so I actually avoided it until, you know, I started writing blogs. I would sit at hockey practice and I’m like, oh my God, I have so much to say. And I no longer have like lawyers won’t let me say stuff. And I was like puking out. Like I had, I remember having a word document, AJ and I, I never considered myself a writer. I was a math major, not a very good one, but a math major. I had 30, some pages of written blogs, just sitting up in like the metal benches at the hockey team. And what happened is I, two things happened, one, which I preach to people all the time. It’s like this lesson, I keep learning, but I also want other people to learn you shouldn’t not do something because you hate the way it was done before.
EH (11:21):
Hmm. Instead do it your own way. And so one, I was like, what do I hate about the career in leadership space? Well, it’s stuffy, it’s boring. It’s a bunch of HR people it’s blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I also listened to a podcast. And it wasn’t you guys yet, which I can tell about then hearing you guys and why it mattered so much more. I, I heard a podcast. Um, do you know, you remember the guy that has a podcast called, like Youpreneur I think, or so, yeah. Yeah. I can’t remember his name. Nice guy, but he’s a little bit like much a British guy, but I somehow stumbled upon it. And Aja was like, oh my God, this is what I wanna do. Like, I didn’t ever realize that, right. This concept. And you guys say it now a lot, you know, coaches, consultants, speakers, and authors, that there was a mechanism that there was an industry.
EH (12:08):
You know, all I had seen were these career leadership that were doing it, the old fashioned way, like go out and sell things and they didn’t have a brand. Right. And they, they weren’t speaking. And, and so when I realized that one, there was what you guys teach that is, so me, I love to speak, I love to do like the big things. Um, I loved the concept of personal branding and that I had also this message that to me, and, and what you said at the beginning was so right. Like I speak mostly to corporations, but I’m telling you authenticity always wins. And I’m learning that as an entrepreneur, right? Like the same things I did successfully as a, you know, a corporate nine to five executive are working here. And when I finally realized too, that it was teachable and that it was, you know, authenticity, isn’t this permission, it’s actually a power. It’s like something that can help you. It’s not just like, I was gonna give people permission to have a better career. Um, when I combined those two, that, that that’s when everything ignited and I got started on, on my path.
AJV (13:09):
Oh, that’s so good. And that you said something in there it’s like, authenticity is not of permission. It’s a power. Um, and I love that. And I, I wanna go back to two things that you said that you kind of skimmed over, but it’s interesting because, uh, prior to our call today, I was in my EO forum meeting. And so I’m a part of the entrepreneurs organization here in Nashville. And for those of you who aren’t familiar with it, um, you get paired in like these little small group forums. So there’s a group of seven of us, I guess, eight of us, including me. And we meet every single month for, you know, three to four hours talking about our businesses, helping each other grow. Um, and it was really fascinating that a lot of the discussion that my EO forum has had a lot of it by me is, you know, trying to figure out like, why is there such this culture of hustle and sacrifice?
AJV (13:54):
Like, why is it that, you know, in America and probably in many places all over the world, but I live here so I can speak to this more honestly. And authentic authentically is the more you sacrifice. Somehow the more successful you are, right? The more you hustle and grind and have no personal life and no family life, like the more quote unquote successful you are. And I heard you say that like you, and then it’s like, and if you don’t, you feel guilty. Right. And it’s, uh, it’s interesting. It’s like, I think about myself. I’m about to go on a, a very 10 day, a very, like a very, uh, like a very intentional 10 day vacation with my kids and my husband. And like what I asked my EO group to hold me accountable to is no work. And at the same time, I know that the reason I’m asking for accountability is because that’s gonna be freaking hard for me, because if I’m not, I feel like there’s shame and guilt tied to it. It’s like, oh gosh, my employees are working. I should be. And it’s like, if I’m not working, like where’s my worth then, like, what if I’m not valuable to the organization in 10 days, God forbid. And so I would love to hear from you both on the corporate side, and now on the other side, looking at the corporate side, where does that come from? Why is it there and how do we eradicate it?
EH (15:05):
It’s addiction. Uh, you know, I think Shonda rhymes, if you’ve never seen her Ted talk, remember the, um, the year of yes. You know, she talks about, I
AJV (15:13):
Haven’t seen her Ted talk, but I love,
EH (15:14):
Oh my gosh.
AJV (15:17):
It OK.
EH (15:17):
Yeah. So she talks about the hum and it’s very illiterate if it’s a beautiful, I mean, Shonda RHS powerhouse. Right. But she talks about the hum and getting addicted to the hum and it’s the hum and the hum. Right. You get, and, and, um, I think it’s really an addiction. Um, and what I always tell people when I talk about authenticity and part of this is, you know, I’m not a very disciplined person, you know, don’t tell Rory, like, I’m not a take the stairs kind of person. I just, that’s not how, you know, I’m a seven on the Enneagram. I’m a creative, but what I’ve found is the nice part is that what, what we teach in authenticity and, and to, to get to your point about like, why are we like that? I always tell people, I don’t change people. I change their addiction.
EH (16:03):
And there’s a detox period. Right. And so for, for example, in your example, change of addiction would be okay, you’re feeling like, okay, this anxiety, like I should be doing more, my team is, is working and I’m not. And if you start to experiment with, um, for example, you know, authenticity, one of my principles is model no better place to, to use the model principle than to go on vacation and model what you want for your employees. Yep. So many leaders would be like, take your vacation, da, da, and then they’re like, hypocrites, they’ll go. And then they’ll work. And what do you think the employees, what message do they get? They don’t listen. They don’t listen to you. They, they watch you. They told. And so a new addiction might be, you take this 10 day, you break free and you start to just, I want you just to observe what you see from your team.
EH (16:55):
For example, somebody that normally doesn’t get to do something, cuz usually you handle it and they step up and do it. And you see like the pride in their face or somebody that follows in your footsteps and says, oh, I noticed you weren’t checking in. I also didn’t check in. I so needed. I didn’t realize how burnt out I was. And, and so now it, you know, instead of being addicted to that ha like, I want you to start to get addicted to this new thing, which is leadership
AJV (17:33):
Hmm. That’s so good. Um, but yeah, I mean there’s so much, I totally agree. There’s an addiction to it. Um, and a really unhealthy one at that. Um, okay. And then the second thing, um, kind of leading into this, you said, uh, I’m learning that I can teach authenticity. So before we get to the study, which I am super intrigued about, and I think it is really interesting and compelling, uh, because I think it’s lacking. I think people struggle with this a lot for a lot of different reasons. So I want like, I want you to define authenticity to you.
EH (18:10):
Yeah. What
AJV (18:11):
Is authenticity?
EH (18:12):
Well, so the way I define it is it’s about exposing who you are when people least expect it.
AJV (18:18):
Hmm love.
EH (18:19):
And, and so what happened, you know, so I said, okay, I’m gonna go do this. I’m gonna go teach it. And then I was like, oh crap. Like, how do you teach something that’s so inherently personal and such, you know, sort of fluffy unicorn DDO. Like how, how can I teach that? Yeah. And, but, but I knew I’m like, wait, I didn’t walk into work. Like I would walk into if I went to your house for a pool party, right. Like I knew there was something more nuanced about me and, and about the people that I consider authentic as well. And actually the first spark was good. Old Google, good old Google. I like, what’s the root word? And the root word is authentic coast, a Greek word and authentic coast means to be genuine. But it also means to be original and authoritative. And so when I saw that, I was like, yes, like authenticity is this more nuanced definition?
EH (19:14):
So actually when I teach, what authenticity is that first thing I do actually is deprogram what? It’s not. So authenticity is not simply being yourself. Yeah. I know that might be depressing. I know that might take a little exorcism, but it is not simply, it’s not the same as being yourself. And it’s also not transparency. It’s not synonymous. People always ask me like, but Erin, is there ever a risk of being too authentic? And I’m like, no, but there’s a risk of being too transparent. They’re not the same word. They’re not the same word at all. And so what, what the most important thing I teach people too, is that authenticity done right in business, in work is actually not about you. Mm it’s. About creating connection, building trust, intrigue, by being, you know, exposing things of yourself, being more vulnerable, being more humbled, using the principles, telling stories, things that you do.
EH (20:13):
Not because it feels better for you, but because it feels better for the connection that you create with people. You know, for example, you know, my first principal, I teach humility, not as like some fluffy adjective, but like purposely use humility. Like I mentioned, like, I have to tell you, I was a complete failure in my first career. And the reason you do that is because what happens then? You’re like, oh, she’s just like me. Like I failed that, you know, chemistry class or, you know, or you also think like, okay, she did not need to tell me that. So I’m guessing she’s not hiding anything else. Like if she would just go and tell me that, you know, she’s spill stuff all over her shirt, you know, two minutes ago or whatever it is. And so if you can think about authenticity, not about you, but, but doing those things that kind of buck the norm that, uh, you know, show a little bit of who you are to benefit somebody else, the reality is it, what happens? It comes right back to you, right? So it’s, it’s not selflessness completely. But if you think first about how you do it for others, then the rewards come back to you almost immediately. Um, so that, that’s kind of how I define it. And then, you know, this, this company I work with called brand builders group taught me how to put some more definition and structure and framework around it, which I have as well.
AJV (21:21):
Well, you know, what’s interesting is, uh, hearing that definition and hearing that earlier, you said you even struggled for, from not maybe what most people would identify as imposter syndrome, but a form of imposter syndrome. And you and I have had those conversations before of you not wanting to feel like an imposter and you know, it’s it, it’s interesting because I feel like most people who self identify with imposter syndrome, it’s probably also much of it stems from being around a whole bunch of people who aren’t being authentic. We’re trying to live up, we’re trying to live up to the image. It’s something that is not real right. It’s like, I, I had to, I did this like a couple years ago. It’s like five years ago now maybe. But I went through my Instagram and I unfollowed every single person that made me feel bad about people.
AJV (22:15):
And not because they were doing anything was my own insecurities. Right. But it’s like, they didn’t do anything, but it was like, man, if I can tell that you’ve airbrushed your photos, it’s like, I’m trying to live up to something that I will never li be able to live up to because we’re human and no human looks like that. Right. That is an animated version of human reality. And I was like, my gosh, I’m like comparing myself to something that’s not actually real. Yeah. And that happens all the time. Right. Unintentionally accidentally or not. But it’s like, look at people’s, you know, picture perfect snapshots in a moment. But what’s missing is the real, crazy chaos that isn’t, that is life. And that, I think that’s what makes us feel like imposters is we look around and be like, everyone else has it together. I must not belong here.
EH (23:06):
Yep. And we all have this disease, this disease that thinks we are the only ones that want it. It’s so funny cuz I, you know, I do corporate workshops all the time. A lot of ’em with executives and, and uh, they’re sort of like, well, yeah, I want it. But I, you know, I, I did my town hall the normal way because I, I, I assumed everybody else wanted the normal structure and the da da, da, da. And um, you know, what I say is authenticity in business and work is sort of like, and you know, this you’re in the thick of this, you know, when you take the boys to a birthday party, one of those birthday parties where like they might do the bouncy house and then they, you know, they all all go do the pizza and then they do the cake. Right. And you’re all stand, you know, the parents are standing around the perimeter and they get done with the, you serving the kids, the cake who just like grab it and ask for another piece. And, and then they come around and they ask the parents, would you like a piece now? What do most parents say?
AJV (24:02):
Oh, no. Good. I’m good. Thank you.
EH (24:04):
What are most people think? Most parents thinking,
AJV (24:07):
Yeah. I ask some
EH (24:09):
AJV (25:17):
Oh my gosh,
EH (25:18):
That’s my kumbaya moment. Huh.
AJV (25:19):
Oh, but it’s so true. It’s true. I think we’re all in search and desire of a little bit more of that in our lives right now. And probably always, but I feel like there’s definitely an era. There’s an aura right around, at least in my circle of going, I need that. I want that. And I didn’t notice that five years ago, um, maybe it’s me. Right? Maybe it’s like, I’m just more in tune to it today than I was before. Cause it’s more important to me, but I do notice there’s this more trend of man. It’s like, you know, and I think this is a great transition to your study and what I, I don’t agree with that. There’s this great resignation I do agree with. There’s a great reevaluation. And I think a lot of that has to do with everyone, having a chance to step back and go, what am I doing and why am I doing it? And do I want to moving forward? Yeah. A lot of it has to do with who, not just what, and so I wanna know, like why did you go the research route? And then what did you find in this national research study when it comes to authenticity?
EH (26:23):
Yeah. So, you know, it went, the research were out for a few reasons. One, um, quite frankly, I always wanna be standing out and you know, I’m so glad I wrote my book. I love my book. People love my book. Everybody writes a book. Um, so part of of it was just strategic. Like not everybody does research, right. Let me do something that stands out. But I’d say just as much, if not more than that, you know, what I talk about is so impactful to people, but it, it can feel so much like fluffy unicorn voodoo, right. And, and, and nobody had really, you know, quantified it, a lot of the, you know, articles out there.
EH (27:13):
And I had pieced together and, you know, in my keynotes and things, I’d pieced together, different studies, right. Line of sight towards this data showed this, this data showed this and therefore right. Authenticity actually will get you more money is essentially the, the story. Um, but nobody had done that. And um, yeah, I mean, I, I laugh because you know what I talk about now, I’m like, you know, for three years I’ve been obsessed with authenticity, but I’ve, you know, largely been making this stuff up
AJV (27:56):
Yeah. I think it’s really powerful. Like one of the things that I, I get kind of like to what you said, and it’s the same reason we did research right. On personal branding. It’s like, man, we think all of this, but is it right? Is it true? And I think a lot of it isn’t like, wouldn’t have mattered to us because it’s like, but we still believe is still what we believe, but it was also just really amazing to go. We’re not the only ones, but then to also be pleasantly surprised about where we were potentially wrong or different. Right. Maybe wrong isn’t the right word. But it was like, it helped shape our perspective even on what we did and going, yeah. Like I do see that alternative and it allowed us to go really deep and an area that wasn’t even in our purview before.
AJV (28:42):
It’s like, I love data. I, I love, I’m such a nerd. Like this is like such my thing. Like that’s probably what one thing that people don’t know about me is like, I’m a real nerd. Like I love data. I love spreadsheets. I love geeky things. Um, my husband always says, that’s why you love me. And I’m like, yes, that’s why I love you. I love nerds. Um, it’s like nerd better for me. Um, and so I wanna know it’s like, if you had to like pick out like what were like the two or three biggest moments, ahas, whatever it was like, what were some of the biggest things that came outta the study that you feel like, I don’t care who you are. You need to know this.
EH (29:17):
Yeah. I would put them in a couple categories. Um, the first is there are a couple where the magnitude of confirming our theory or our thesis was kind of blew our mind. Uh, and those, you know, those were a couple of them, you know, you talk about the great resignation, but let, let’s just call it talent retention, which when I do corporate workshops, I always start, especially with the executives, you know, what’s the number one issue you’re facing. Cause I want them to know we’re solving issues. We’re not there doing fluff and it’s retention, retention, acquisition, talent, talent, talent, you know, and what was interesting. So I’ll tell you what we found. So we asked, um, one question, simple question. How much is authenticity practiced in your organization? And on that question, we did a Likert scale. So you know, all the time, you know, 5, 5, 5 scale liker, um, scale, and then like 10 questions later, we simply asked them, will you, do you think you’ll be working for your employer two years from now?
EH (30:15):
And then we pieced together those two questions. And we found that the people that scored the top of the Likert scale, like it’s always practice authenticity. So they have authentic culture were 92% likely to still be at their employer two years ago. And it literally drew a line like this, like 84%, 72%, 60 some percent, and then not practice at all. It was 40%. So the correlation between an authentic company, culture and employee retention was, you know, just perfect and magnified. Another one that the magnitude was, it was crazy. We asked people, um, is your leader authentic? Yes or no? Just a simple question. Yes or no. And then again, like eight questions later we asked, um, if your leader were, were to leave the organization, would you follow them? And people that said yes to the first question that their leader was authentic were four times more likely to follow them.
EH (31:11):
If they went somewhere else, 400%. And we found that correlation with trust. We also asked, you know, about the authenticity, the authentic culture. And then we looked at a statement that said, um, do you agree with this? There’s a high level of trust in our organization. And we found those with the, you know, the highest authentic culture. It was like, it was also a four times magnitude of trust. Um, so we saw, we saw, you know, basically our thesis was blown away in terms of the numbers. And then on the, the other category, I would say the surprising things, right? The things that we sort of didn’t expect, a couple things really stood out. Um, one were around executives. Um, so many people, right. Have this myth. It’s like, yeah, I wanna do authenticity or I wanna authentic culture, but right. The guy, you know, those dudes at the top, the people, you know, the executives at the top, they’re not authentic.
EH (32:02):
And it was interesting when we asked, for example, that simple question, is your leader authentic or not? When we looked at the three different job types. So we, we basically said, are you an executive leader? Are you an, an executive manager or something like that, a non-executive manager or a non-manager. So those three categories and the people that said yes, the most that their manager was authentic were the executives. And why that’s so important is that the people at the top are actually, as they’re hanging out, they’re having their one-on-ones, they’re having their meetings. They’re super authentic, right. They have these great relationships, but then as they face out to the organization, whether it’s through town halls, you know, part of the devil is the corporate com team
EH (32:58):
Yeah. Cause they have their scripts written for them. They have their handlers, they, you know, that they, they might feel like, you know, they have to Polish up or people won’t have confidence in them. And the reality is the executives are, are seeing their, their own bosses as the most authentic in the company. So that was interesting. And another surprising one was, um, that I was really curious about a sense of top sensitive topic, which is around, um, you know, black and other people of color, you know, this question. Yeah. But can they be authentic, right? Like there’s this, you know, feeling that it’s harder for them, uh, or it’s not as, as inter or as easy. And actually our data found that it was pretty much flat and there were a few places where there was not much of a statistical difference. Um, but we found in almost all of the questions, like, do you feel you can be authentic at work?
EH (33:52):
How important is authenticity at work? Um, et cetera, et cetera. It was about the same. And then the, the last thing around diversity, we found, we asked a question, um, if you’re looking for a new job, which of these factors are most important and we gave them eight factors and the top two were pay benefits, of course, and then flexibility, uh, which makes a lot of sense. The next two were authentic culture and authentic leader. And then what’s most important is what was below those below authenticity, quite significantly was the company has values that I believe in which we talk all the time about, right. Especially like the millennials and gen Z, they wanna work for a company has the same. That was actually lower. Um, getting the experience I need to build my resume, you know, basically was below that. Um, and then diversity of the company was actually last. And what I say about that is it’s not that diversity doesn’t matter, but it’s a great point. That diversity is all for. Not like if you check all the boxes, right. And you have all the percentages and numbers, if people can’t be themselves
AJV (34:58):
That’s right.
EH (34:59):
And so, you know, really authenticity in the terms of diversity, it’s, it’s the Trump card. Uh, and so that was, that was pretty interesting to see as well.
AJV (35:06):
Yeah. I think that speaks a lot too. It’s like, are you checking the diversity, uh, button versus is this an authentic, real part of our culture? Right. And it’s like, you know, even as a woman, it’s like, am I on this board because I’m checking your female card or is it because you generally want me here? And it’s like, I question that all the time. It’s like, I don’t wanna be your checkbox. Thanks. But no, thanks. Mm-hmm
EH (36:13):
Yeah, I mean, well, so, you know, I would not in the research, but I, what I would say it’s because people have four decades and decades, watch people not take the cake
AJV (36:23):
Yeah.
EH (36:24):
At the birthday party. And they’ve been so programmed that nobody wants the cake, or it’s not cool that they take the cake. And, you know, we just emulate what we see in front of us. It’s the same thing our kids do. Right. They, they emulate what we do, same thing in business. Like I always joke, like some dude in 1965 was really successful being stuffy and like having a process and people started to replicate it. Right. And it just regenerated. And then, you know, 30, 40 years later we’re like, oh crap, maybe that wasn’t the right formula. Um, but it’s, it’s about emulation because, because I know this because part of the reason I was able to start my experiments and get addicted and have that different game, that different path is because I had a father that I watched every day, come home and tell stories.
EH (37:09):
He was a teacher. And then, and then he retired and sold real estate. And he would tell story after story, basically of how, how incredibly authentic he was as a teacher and the funny things he had to do with the kids and the way he would discipline through a totally different manner. And so I got to see right people, I saw somebody eating the cake and then I was also very lucky, one of my first bosses, um, that took a big, uh, risk on me. She was the leader of our international division and she also demonstrated this authenticity. And again, it wasn’t just a permission cuz I didn’t just see her do it, but I saw her results. I, I ran her strategic planning. I knew our numbers every year we were growing the business. And so I got to tie together both the permission to be like that, but also that it created success.
EH (37:56):
And that’s why I’m out doing what I’m doing and trying to find as many people, right. To plant the seed because it’s simply that we have to start seeing something different to emulate that is not only more relieving and more fun, but you also are like, holy crap, look at the results they got. And I think you’re starting to, I, I, you know, it’s so funny in the entrepreneurial to, you know, kind of go to the entrepreneurial side of the house, you know, I, listen, I consume tons of stuff. Right. And part of brand builders is I listen to podcast. And so often I’ll hear people go, oh like, oh, this is such an interesting trend that I see. And they don’t call it authentic. And I sort of laugh and I’m like, like it’s authenticity. That’s why it’s working. Right. It’s you know, and people call it different things, but you’re seeing it all the time in the entrepreneurial world.
EH (38:44):
You’re seeing it LinkedIn, a huge trend. You know, I just listened to an episode of him, the LinkedIn guy that’s part of NSA. And he was like, yeah, she’s like stock photos. And um, you know, curated basically CAMBA picks don’t do well. It’s the, it’s the natural pictures. I was like, authenticity, you know? So I’ll hear things and I’m like, authenticity. I’m like, it, it works. It’s just about being aware of it, doing that experiment, collecting your own data for data geek. Like you, it literally is like collect the data to be like, Hmm. They open that email. Hmm. They listen to me when they normally are like distracted. Hmm. We sold more of this when we did this and then going, huh? Maybe if I do more than that, it’ll it’ll get better results.
AJV (39:28):
Oh, this is so good. I could literally talk about this for like three hours because I do think it’s something that we all so desperately need. And to me it doesn’t matter if you, again, I said this earlier, a manager or an owner, an executive, it’s like an employee, a, you know, part-time direct sales person, a retail shop employee. It does not matter. It’s like this impacts all of us. Like no matter what your role is, no matter what you’re doing, a parent, a teacher, um, it doesn’t matter a friend, a spouse, like
EH (40:32):
Yeah, you can go to be authentic ink.com. It’s just the letter B authentic inc.com/slash research. That’s a month.
AJV (40:47):
Show notes, but B authentic inc.com/research. And yes, we will put it in the show notes. And if Aaron, if people wanna just connect with you, um, to connect with your more authentic self, uh, all over online, where should they connect with you?
EH (41:02):
Yeah. I mean, you can go to my website and just check out all the things, but I, where I’m most active is LinkedIn. Um, I’d love to connect on LinkedIn. I am the only Aaron Hatti in the world. So if you can spell it, you can find me.
AJV (41:14):
Wow. That’s so funny because I’ve been saying Erin Hopsy for oh, oh,
EH (41:19):
That’s actually, that’s actually even better. Hoy Costa. You’re giving it the Mediterranean flare. I’m giving it the American, like you wanna try to spell it?
AJV (41:28):
I was like, that is like, you got it. I was like, Rory always tells me that he was like, they like, I don’t know what you hear, but you don’t hear the real words you just make. He’s like make up like all the words to songs. It goes, these are not the words. And I’m like, you’re not, I dunno what you hear, but it’s not what it is. Um, thank you so much for coming on. I love this. Thank you for bringing this topic to the table and also bringing in a way of like, how do we use this to better communication, better. Our leadership just better our relationships, right? It’s just like the more that you can be authentic, right? It’s like it has this domino effect of positivity and impact no matter where you go. And yes, that will lead to bigger, better jobs and more pay and stronger relationships and all the things. And thank you for bringing it to the table, but also in a light of like, how do we take this and apply it and see it in a different way where it’s not like you do you boo, but it’s like, Hey, like there is power in this. This is how you do it. I love this. I love you. Y’all got go check out this study, go follow Erin, go connect with her on LinkedIn. And then, uh, make sure you come back here next, uh, time on the influential personal brand. We’ll see you later.
Ep 325: Life Lessons of an Entrepreneur with Denise Villa | Recap Episode
AJV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, AJ Vaden here. And here is the recap of my recent conversation with Denise via and I love conversations like this because they’re just real. And if you’re looking for a real conversation with a, a real entrepreneur, who’s not shy about telling you the ups downs, good, bad, ugly all of the in between then go check out the full episode on the influential personal brand podcast with Denise via lessons from a real life entrepreneur. But I’m gonna pick out a couple of them that I thought were really important for this recap episode that we’re gonna talk about right now. So one of the things that I think is pertinent that I’m gonna share just because it relates to me. And since I’m doing these recaps, I get to decide what to talk about. But I, I loved her take on what it’s like to work with your spouse.
AJV (01:50):
And I worked with my spouse have for a really long time, little known fact Rory Vaden and I were business partners before we were spouses. We were business partners before we fell in love and got married, we kind of broke that Cardinal rule. And we have a unique perspective that we’ve never not known each other as business partners. Whereas many couples who work together became couples before they started working together. And we don’t know what life looks like, not working together. And perhaps that’s God’s saving grace or us in our marriage as we don’t know any other way. But I, I loved a couple of things that she said I thought were really insightful. And what I loved most is that what often you hear people talking about are ways to make it work. Like how do you, you know, still find time for each other and not let work conveyed the off hours.
AJV (02:50):
And how do you divide and conquer and how do you stay in your own lane and how you not kill each other?
AJV (03:43):
AJV (04:30):
It is hard, there’s hard things about it. And there’s also really good things about it. We just choose to talk about the hard ones and we don’t often talk about like what a blessing and what a gift it is to get, to build something together with your spouse or your family to, to get to enjoy seeing each other’s gifts at work, however they can drive you crazy. And I think just making that decided choice up going, man, like what are the, the gifts, the blessings in this creates a heart change in me, at least that makes the more challenging parts, less challenging, because I get to take a, a, I get a front seat of seeing my partner, my husband, my, you know, my spouse, my friend live out his potential, live out these gifts that God has put in his life.
AJV (05:22):
And I’m really grateful for that. And I, I love that part of our conversation of it’s easy to talk about just like, oh, how do you make it work? How do you not kill each other? How do you like not let work take over? And I love that there’s also a piece of this, of like, how do you get to just sit back and revel and the awesomeness that is your, you know, dad, child, brother, sister, uncle, husband, wife and get to see them at work. And so I just love that perspective on that of working with your spouse. So that was the first thing second thing that I just kind of, of wanted to highlight but I thought was really fascinating is
AJV (06:08):
You are sitting with so many responsibilities and of which include taking out the trash to pay in the bills to, you know, sitting on boards, to writing checks, to being featured in media, to letting people go laying people off, hiring people, leading people, managing people. And I just don’t know if you know, the, the letter CEO, chief executive officer are all encompassing enough for what really happens on a daily life as an entrepreneur of a small business. Right. and I thought that was a really good take of going, like what it really means to be an entrepreneur is that you’re willing to do all of the things. And you’re not above any things. If you know the mate isn’t there, it’s you clean it up, right. Trashman, didn’t show up, you take it out, person, quit, you do the sales call, next person quits, you do this call.
AJV (07:08):
Right. And it’s, and I think a part of that is an ingrained feeling right. Of it’s a, this is mine and it’s whatever it takes, right. It’s like, I like so many things in my life today to parenting.
AJV (08:08):
And that includes our clients, our employees, our mission our, you know, our company is like another baby, right? It’s like a child. But we get to do all the things to take care of the thing that we love, that we have to do all the dirty work. And it’s so hard. Those things are true too, but it’s that, that slight perspective shift that again makes all the challenging things, just a little less challenging. All right. And then my third thing kind of on this same kind of same line, right? I, this, I love the kind of title of this, just lessons of a real life entrepreneur of what is it like to go through the different ebbs and flows, the peaks and valleys? The good and the bad of having an exclusively high growth company to, wow. Now we’re having to lay everyone off just to survive and then to come back and go, okay, now things are back again.
AJV (09:08):
And, and that’s an emotional roller coaster and like buckle up, hold on tight, cuz you just dunno how fast the drop’s gonna happen and then how fast it could pick back up again. And I loved what she said about like how do you create some consistency right. Both mentally, emotionally, even physically of making sure that your work, isn’t just the only thing in your life. And I think that’s the real takeaway for me is I think as American entrepreneurs and I can only say that because I am an American. But I’m sure this is true in most countries. Our identity gets tied up in our work and our identity is not what we do. Our identity is who we are. And if all we do, if the only thing we do is work, then we lose side of all of the other pieces of us.
AJV (10:05):
So to create more consistency, to create more stability, what we do is we have to have a little bit more diversity and all the things that we do, right. I can honestly say before I became a mother work was way more all consuming than I would care to admit today. But I think through becoming a parent, I realized it’s like, oh man, I had really put too much of my identity into one thing. And I wanted to be really careful not just to dump it into the next thing, which is motherhood of going well, where is my identity and who am I, if it’s not just, you know, being Jasper and Liam’s mom or doing this ex company or doing these ex services or whatever it may be. But it’s really making sure that it’s like, I have more diversity in my life of recommitting my life back to, to Christ and getting more involved in Bible studies and increasing a friend group.
AJV (11:08):
I didn’t have friends for a really long time work was everything. And it was creating, you know, routines and habits that’s that created some separation where everything, everything wasn’t centered on just this one thing. And I think that that’s necessary in my opinion, so that your identity doesn’t get just tied up in one thing because that isn’t your identity. That is a, a phase of your life. It is something that you’ve done, although it may be a large phase of your life, but it is not who you are. It is simply something that you have done for a period of time until you move on to the next thing. Y’all so many takeaways, those were just three highlights. They had a common central theme there. Loved this conversation, loved these takeaways. They were important to me. I hope they’re important to you. So stick around and we’ll see you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 324: Life Lessons of an Entrepreneur with Denise Villa
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand today is super, super special. Cuz I get to interview one of my very closest dearest, best friends, Denise Dorsey, Denise vi I, I know Rory’s like it’s via not Dorsey
AJV (01:54):
And I’m just gonna tell you guys why you need to listen if you are listening to this and you’re trying to decide if you should make the leap from what you’re doing to what you feel like God called you to do, you should listen to this episode. If you are a, a working mom, if you are trying to balance entrepreneurship, being a CEO, being an executive, being a leader, just being in the frigging workforce while also trying to balance being a mom and manage your family you should listen to this. If you’re trying to juggle multiple jobs all at once Denise is the CEO of the center for generational kinetics. She is still sitting as COO at a very amazing biomed company. She also runs a real estate development and investment group. Urban gravity’s, one of the fastest growing real estate developers in Austin, Texas.
AJV (02:47):
She is also an author of the economy. It’s like the list goes on and on. So it’s like, I often go, do you sleep? Like, do you like what? She’s also a marathon runner. It’s like, I’m like, I’m pretty sure I’m like way below standards when it comes to Denise and all of our accomplishments. But it’s like, you should listen. I’m going, man. Like what are the peaks and valleys of managing all the things because although they’re rewarding, they’re hard. Like let’s get real. They’re really hard. Also if you work with your spouse or you’re considering working with your spouse, you should listen to this episode. If you wanna write a book or you wanna go out and speak or think, think about this, not only working with your spouse, do you also wanna write, write a book with your spouse?
AJV (03:35):
Like these are all the things that are Denise villa Dorsey that you should stick around and listen to. And that is just really scratching. Really truly like barely scratching the surface of all things. Denise and I would say most importantly of all, I’m so excited for this interview. One, she didn’t wanna do it. She was super reluctant because she’s super humble. And doesn’t often put herself in the spotlight and so I’m genuinely excited to help the entire world get to know your brilliance and you’re, you’re so steady. Like you’re so consistent and calm and sometimes I’m sit at the dinner table with you and Jason and Rory and Jason is so animated and him and Rory are over there, scheming their ideas. And I’m like, people like, what are you talking about?
DV (04:44):
Aww, AJ, you’re so sweet. I think the podcast is over. I’m gonna take all these beautiful things you just said and I’m done
AJV (04:51):
DV (04:54):
And I’m excited to be here with you and thank you for having me really.
AJV (04:57):
Oh, I’m just so excited. And I’m honestly, I’m too, I’m so excited to get, to hear the parts of you and your message and these, these interesting parts of your life and your career that don’t get to come up in normal conversations where, when we’re with our kids or when our we’re and our husbands, or we don’t have extended amounts of time together for you guys listening. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, as you may know. But Denise lives in Austin. So our times are like far and through between. And so when there’s so much to catch up on like so many of these questions, I’m like, oh my gosh, I don’t know the answers to these. I’m so excited to see what you’re gonna say, but, okay. So we’re gonna start here of helping our audience get to know a little bit about you.
AJV (05:40):
And I think a part of your backstory is really unique and really important to the people who listen to our podcast. Because as I mentioned this to you, it’s like much of our audience are trying to make the decision of, do I stay where I am or do I go and do something different? Right. And there’s nothing wrong with where I am, but at the end of the day, I just feel like something’s missing. Right? Sure. Part of me that’s like, could I really do it? Or is there something bigger for me? It’s like, is this what God really intended for my life? And, and I think you’re one of those unique people in our life that it’s like, you made a really dramatic shift in your professional life because you were already so successful as a teacher and then a principal and in the world of education and academia.
AJV (06:32):
And that’s like, that’s a no joke job, a super underappreciated underpaid job, by the way. But you made a major decision of going, I’m going to leave, like what? I went to school for, what I thought I was gonna do my whole life, what you’ve been doing, what you’ve been very successful at doing to go out and go, I’m gonna, like, I’m gonna jump this ship and I’m going to join the crazy people on the world of entrepreneurship. And what I would love for the audience to hear is like, what’s a little bit of your backstory of like, where were you? What made you want to make that kind of jump? And ultimately, why did you do it?
DV (07:08):
Yeah, no, that’s a great question. And I’ve pondered that a lot, I wish I had like a, a straight answer and it was exactly at this point, but I think a lot of things happened and when I reflect back on it I wouldn’t have traded any of the experiences for it, but it was kind of the catalyst to move forward. So at the time I was a a principal at a, at a high school in Texas, a 2200 student, so very big 200 over 200 faculty. And things were going, you know, full, full on crazy times. Like just, you know, the amount of hours you put in. They need to, all those kids need to, you know, and it was my job to, to do that for everybody. And I loved it. It was fulfilling. It was really a great place to be.
DV (07:58):
I was also doing my PhD at night. So I was finishing my dissertation. I had also just finished and completed a year of, of an internship for super. So that was kind of my pathway. And I was on this pathway. I knew where I was going and my husband who’s been entrepreneur since he was 18 never known anything else. And was also traveling at that time. I probably 220 days out of the year. Wow. And you know, I just took a moment and we both did, and we’d had some really big life changes happen. Within that year as well. One of my best friends was diagnosed with stage four cancer. And one of my other best friends was gave birth and ended up being in the hospital with a hole in her heart and they weren’t sure she was gonna make it.
DV (08:52):
And there was just a lot of things going on. Quite honestly. And my husband said, you know, why don’t you take a moment, let’s just take a moment and breathe, finish your dissertation take a sabbatical and, and go back to education. And I said, no,
DV (09:50):
It wasn’t like a, you know, I had didn’t have a plan in place. It just, it just was. And basically once that opportunity happened, I just jumped both feet in and, and did it. And I love education. I love the kids, I, the parents, schools everything about it. But now that I’ve been an entrepreneur now for 15 years, I think, going on, no, actually going on 17 there’s no other better place in the world for me. I just enjoy so much and I still help people. I just help in a different way. And I think that’s why I enjoy it so much.
AJV (10:31):
I love that. And you know, it’s interesting, like this is like the third conversation I’ve had in a really short time period where I have talked to someone who had some sort of life event that occurred in one of these pivotal decisions that they’ve made. You know, I’ve, I’ve had those. And I was just talking to someone earlier today about that she left a very high paying corporate software job of, you know, what happened is her mom was diagnosed with cancer and she goes, man, is this how I wanna spend my days? Is this what I wanna be doing? And like, to hear you about a friend and then the daughter of another friend. And I know that these life events cause us to wake up, right? Like so evident, so many, right? So many of us, what I’m curious is just to hear your genuine opinion and your perspective of why does it take that sort of thing to actually cause us to do what we want? Like, what is it about us as humans, right? That’s like, I’ll stay on this path, even though I know there might be something more for me until we realize life is short. And it’s a lot shorter than I used to think yesterday, because today I have news I didn’t have yesterday. I’m just, I’m so curious, like, what is, is it that
DV (11:54):
I can’t speak for everyone, but I think for, for me I’m very goal oriented. So I mean, I’m still goal oriented and my husband does this too. People think we’re crazy about this point, but in my bathroom, I have a glass board, not a white board, a glass board, and it has all of our goals for the year so that we can see them every morning when we’re taking a shower, when not
AJV (12:16):
Taking a shower,
DV (12:17):
They’re just like right in front of me, there’s no reason not to pass it up. So I think for me as very goal oriented, I set these goals. I wanna be a principal by this age. I wanna be a superintendent by this age. I wanna do X by this age. And, and then life just continues happening. And, and then all of a sudden you’re given a moment of pause because of some life extraordinary event. That just for me, you know, just put everything else aside and, and gives you pause and thought and, and how, and what do I wanna do? I mean, I spent the last days of my friend’s life with her and I could not have done that as a teacher or as a principal. I just wouldn’t have allowed me to. So I wouldn’t change that transition for anything.
DV (13:07):
I mean, I was meant to be but I do think that you, people just go on this journey and it’s just so fast and furious you know, that we don’t take the time to, to stop for a second. And then we get the time and, and we think, is this where we’re supposed to be? I mean much like COVID yeah, COVID paused the world. And then so many people that came out of it were attorneys and now there’s screenwriters and moved to Costa Rica or, you know, people that were screenwriters who were like, I don’t wanna be this anymore. I wanna do this. I mean, and I just think that we don’t have enough pauses in our life.
AJV (13:46):
Oh, I love that. I’ve, I’ve shared this quote a few times now. But I was reading an article and that just like flashed across my screen one day. And it was from Ariana Huffington and she said, people have been calling this the great resignation, but I don’t think that’s what it is. I don’t think we have a great resignation. I think what we are experiencing is the great reevaluation yeah. Of what do we wanna do and how do we wanna do it? And what’s the in and what’s worth it. And is, is money really the answer to all the things. And many of us discovered, no, it’s not.
DV (14:21):
Yeah, exactly
AJV (14:23):
Not. And I think that’s a huge part of it’s like these life events cause us to reevaluate what we thought was important.
DV (14:29):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (15:52):
Is. And 30 age is just a number,
DV (15:55):
But it does. It gave me pause. Just thinking about where I wanna go.
AJV (16:00):
Yeah. I just, I sometimes, and I, I totally feel that and it’s like, you know, my husband, Roy’s turning 40 in just a few weeks and I’m not, I’m giving myself, I’ve got a full, like what, 22 more months before
AJV (16:16):
AJV (17:09):
So you also, you have an enormous entrepreneurial community. And one of the things that I think would be really interesting for our audience because it’s like what I tell people all the time, it’s like a personal brand should be treated like a business because it is one, it is one, right? It’s your reputation. It’s what people think of when they think of you. And regardless of what that looks like rather you are an executive or an employee or a salesperson, or you go out on your own as a solo entrepreneur or you build a company. It doesn’t matter anywhere in between. There are components of entrepreneurship that are present in everything that we do. And so what I would love to hear from you for our audience is what do you think are the necessary skills? And those could be mental, emotional, or tactical skills that it requires for someone to make it as an entrepreneur.
DV (18:05):
Oh, that’s a great question. So patience, I think is one. I have a lot of patience. Some entrepreneurs would disagree. They would say patience is not, is not a great one. And I would disagree with them back. There is so much patience needed in becoming an entrepreneur. It’s not overnight successes. All the overnight successes. Majority of them were never overnight. If you think 10 years is overnight, that’s their overnight success. Nobody ever talks about the 10 years before the overnight success. So I think patience is one tenacity. Tenacity is huge. You’re gonna get shot down. You’re gonna get said, be said, no, you’re gonna say, they’re gonna say that this is the worst they’ve ever seen, whatever. But if you truly believe in what you’re doing, then you, you you’ll keep going. You definitely just keep going. So it’s necessity would be another one. I think also being a listener, not just a communicator, not just being able to speak eloquently and, and cheer on the crowd, but to also be a good listener. Hear what people are saying, take that in, take the feedback, make the adjustments go back out there. I think those three are probably my top ones that I feel that are necessary to be a great entrepreneur. Other at least for me,
AJV (19:33):
Oh, I love that. And I think, you know, the patience one, I didn’t expect you to say that, but that is so true. Like when I said earlier, it’s like, you’re so steady. It’s like patient, would’ve been the other word. It’s like, you’re so patient like you are. And I think that’s like, I think that’s a really great reminder to everyone who’s listening today is yeah, there is no such thing as an overnight success like that does not exist. You see the success overnight, but there is no overnight success, right? It’s like, correct. Just cause you just learned about somebody doesn’t mean they hadn’t been hustling for years. Exactly. Get to that point. And I love, I love it when people say, oh man, they just came outta nowhere. And I’m like,
DV (20:11):
Really
AJV (20:13):
Thing. Like come outta nowhere that it’s like, you know, our awareness of someone is what makes us think like, oh man, they just blew up and it’s like, Mel, they didn’t blew up. Right. They’ve been building that engine for a really long time and then they just turned it on. Right. Exactly. That’s a great reminder to all of us, of man. It’s not gonna happen overnight.
DV (20:35):
You know, nothing ever does. And nothing that is worth really having at the end of it is ever just so quick. It’s not like a, it’s not like a light switch. And I also think the, the three that I mentioned are great. Especially if you have a partner that has the opposite of the three
AJV (21:23):
Oh, that’s such a great transition too. It’s like Jason and I share more of those personality traits and you, and yes
DV (21:29):
You do do
AJV (21:30):
AJV (22:28):
And so I, one I’d love to know it’s like, what have you seen both personally and just in the entrepreneurial community of what makes a successful partnership. And then the second thing is I wanna talk about, and then how do you work with your spouse? And you and I both sit in the boat and I, I share this with you often. It’s like, there are so few people that are at my life stage married to their business partner where we’re the sitting as the CEO of the company, we have young children, like it is a rare situation in most events. And it’s got amazing, beautiful components and really frigging hard ones. And I know a lot of people who get started, like they get started with their spouse cuz that’s who we can afford. Right.
DV (23:32):
Okay. No, that’s great. I think for me, number one is trust. You have to trust your partner, your business partner infinitely. If you do not or have reservations or even have like a little inkling that their trust isn’t there, it’s just not gonna work. It’s just, I can’t imagine going through every single day of what people do in a business and not completely 100% trust your partner that you’re working with. So that would be number one. Number two for me is figure out what you’re good at, figure out what your partner is good at and then stay out of each other’s way. We learned that the hard way working together. And I think the first year we really overstepped on Jason stepped over on my toes. I stepped on his and it wasn’t until we figured out our lanes and we stayed in ’em that we were able to grow and we were able to be successful in our partnership.
DV (24:35):
And, and even now, I mean, we’ve been doing this together, you know, almost 15 years and every once in a while we crossed lanes and we’re like, uhoh Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. Let’s get back in our lane and I think that is very helpful for, for us and for other partners. And I think lastly, this has to really do, if you’re married to them, maybe not your, you weren’t married to them, but we really came up with rules around our household as well. Now I will not say that I follow every single role to a T. But I try. And the last thing we wanted in our relationship was our relationship to be all about work is so easy to all of a sudden all the conversations we’re having or about work or about your kids. And we just didn’t want that.
DV (25:27):
So we set boundaries on times a day that we can talk about our business on the weekends. You know, there’s no disgusting on Saturdays and on Sundays you can only get me until noon. Because if you’re my husband, he wakes up at 6:00 AM. He wakes me up at six 30. And the first thing you have is out of his mouth is, Hey, did you get this transaction done? Or, Hey, did you close this deal? And I’ve not even opened up my eyes for like two minutes yet. They’re like, can I brush my teeth first? So we really laid out boundaries around that. That was very helpful. And then, you know, finding people like you and Rory, I mean, you guys are amazing, but finding other like people that you can have the conversations with and talk to people, it’s a rarity of what you and I do with our husband and to have that back and forth with somebody to share it with is phenomenal. And that’s very helpful.
AJV (26:22):
Yeah. I think, you know, you said two things in there that I just wanna like pull out. Cause I think these are so significant is one of them is around the trust factor. It’s like, you’ve gotta give your partner. And you could say your partner is anywhere from a vendor to a contractor, to an employee. It’s like, I think this transcends just a business partnership, but you’ve gotta trust and give them the benefit of the doubt even when you’re not sure. And so my question to you in this is how do you build trust in business?
DV (26:52):
Oh, that’s a good one. So I’m all in or I’m all out. That’s my, so I in business, if I’ve decided that you’re my partner, whatever that is my salesperson you’re a partner in our business. You’re a vendor, anybody, anybody that we’ve touched, I’m a hundred percent in you’re on our team. I completely 100% trust. However, if that trust is broken is really hard for me to repair it. And that’s just me, myself. I’m a hundred percent in giving you everything, but if you break it I’m out. And I, I tell people that front I’m very open and honest without with anybody that I work with. Like you have everything, but you destroy it. And I walk away. Like I just, I just not worth my time nor can I do I wanna work on it to get it back. I just don’t.
AJV (27:50):
So I’m just writing this down cuz that’s like, I think so what I hear you saying and what I’m writing down is that it’s like, you have to make a choice to be all in. Yeah. Right. It’s not like, oh, it just happens. Right? It’s like, no, I’m choosing to be all in. And I’m choosing that. You’re my partner. I’m choosing to trust you.
DV (28:07):
Exactly. Exactly. No reservations, because if there’s any reservations, then there’s no reason for us to even be partners in anything.
AJV (28:17):
Okay. So that is so, so, so I guess one of the things that I’m hearing too is this has actually been a really recent conversation in our household and our business is Roy’s always telling me, babe, you’ve gotta give me the benefit of the doubt.
DV (29:09):
Right. Exactly. And for people listening I’m a lot like RRY so it doesn’t, we share a lot of the same characteristics. So surprised
AJV (29:21):
Patience is one of virtues. I have other gifts, other gifts. But it’s like, but it is, I think that’s like so important it’s like in any relationship is you’ve gotta make the choice to see the benefit of that. I have to make the choice to trust you. Because if not, then everything is filled with doubt.
DV (29:41):
Yeah. And, and then you’re going behind their, their, I wouldn’t say their backs, but you’re going behind and trying to double check the work. Did this get done? Did that get done? Did you know everything? You know, and it’s just, people make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes, we’re all human. And there’s a difference between like, oh, I messed up. That’s a mistake. And there’s a difference between a total mistrust of something that you did like that the, to me, those are very different.
AJV (30:10):
Okay. I’m,
DV (30:11):
It’s an error. I’m not forgiving when you deliberately, you know, right. Needed me to not trust me.
AJV (30:18):
Yeah. The same thing with like your kids, right. It’s like, yeah. You know, it’s so much of leadership of business is parallel to parenting. Being a parent has been the best leadership training on the planet.
DV (30:33):
AJV (30:34):
If you like, it’s like trying to get these two little humans to do something that I want them to do. And there’s no incentive. There’s no money. There’s no, like, it’s like, oh man, OK. I’ve gotta really get my negotiation skills to work with these two humans. But I think that’s like so true. It’s like, but it’s all in a choice of like, I’m choosing to say, you know, Jasper, I know that you wouldn’t intentionally knew such a thing, but that’s a choice because the other half of me is going you little rat. I know
DV (31:08):
AJV (31:08):
You know, and it’s like, that’s such a choice and it happens in business all the time. Right, right. It’s so easy to fill our mind with. Well, I mean, they’re just doing this because you know, it’s easier for them or I’m the one stuff doing all the really hard work they’re out there getting to do what they love and what they’re passionate about. And then I get stuck with everything they don’t want.
DV (31:26):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (31:27):
That’s really good. The second thing I wanna highlight is you talked about these rules. So can you give us an example of like, what’s a role that you guys have in your house to protect, you know, your personal relationship? So the business doesn’t take takeover?
DV (31:42):
Sure. So one big role is, like I said earlier about talking about business. So no talking about business on Saturdays and Sundays, we can start after 12. And so I will say, you know, Jason could talk about business 24 7. So you know, sometimes 1140, he’ll be like on a Sunday, Hey, I have 10 more minutes and then we can start talking
AJV (33:02):
So what do you guys talk about if you don’t talk about, if you don’t talk about at your daughter and if you don’t talk about work, what are you guys talking about?
DV (33:10):
Ah, what we talk about things we wanna do, where we wanna go, you know, places that maybe we wanna live. We talk about, you know, our families, our parents, maybe we, my husband travels quite a bit still now. And so there’s a lot of things in a week that transpire that I never get to even tell him about. I told him I’m a podcast with AJ. He’s like, there’s just like a lot of things that you have that you never get to share. And so we talk about things like that. And then we talk about I’m part of entrepreneur, you know organization here in town. I have a lot of entrepreneur, friends and things that are going on in their world and I wanna hear about his friends. And so that’s the, the timing that we use to celebrate those kind of experiences.
AJV (34:03):
Yeah. And I, I ask cause of genuine co you know, curiosity for my own marriage. But also because I think that’s really good for all of us to go, you know, this is like one of the big mantras. That’s in my life right now is that I want people to care much more about who I am than what I do. Yeah. I don’t wanna be defined by my work because that’s how I defined my own worth for a really long time. And I’m in recovery from finding all of my worth in my work. And what I have found is like in all general natural situations, it doesn’t matter if it’s with my husband or at a networking meeting or at my EO group or, well, a group of friends, like somehow it always transitions to, well, tell me more about what you do. And I’m like, it’s so hard to like pull out of that world and go, no, actually just wanna talk about I,
DV (34:59):
The best book you just read
AJV (35:01):
Or something. And it’s like, it’s like, it’s amazing. And I don’t know if it’s this way all around the world, but I know that it’s like this in the United States. It’s hi, here’s my name? And the next question is, so what do you do? Yeah. And it’s ingrained in this component of our lives. And it, it folds over into work is the majority of what our life is about. And I was so genuinely curious of not just for our own spouses but for each of us out there of like the thing that I love about personal branding and reputation is that it’s at the heart of who you are and who you are, has nothing to do with, with what you do. It’s a piece of it is not who you are and finding things to talk about that allow people to get to know more of who you are, I think is a kind of a novel idea, believe it or not. Well,
DV (35:51):
I also think that people have to be open to the discussion, right? I mean, in the United States and I, I I’ll say this just in the United States, you and I both travel a lot outside of the United States, but here, so many of the conversations when you meet someone are so superficial. Yeah. And they don’t go deep. And what I have found, you know, as being part of the EO community for the last 10 years, I mean, they really trained on like specific questions and to get deep and come vulnerable. And if you’re not gonna be that person, then we don’t need you in our community. Mm-Hmm
AJV (36:37):
If
DV (36:37):
You’re not gonna have a meaningful conversation with me, well, you know, there’s a hundred emails I could probably answer. And I really wanna spend the time with you and get to know you and learn, how did you become you? And I’d rather have that conversation than answer the hundred emails for sure. Oh
AJV (36:53):
Man, I’m gonna write this down. How did you become you? Not what do you do, but how did you become you? I’m always writing down what are good questions that I can ask that are not, so what do you do or tell me about your work or like that’s a really good one. So so do you, do you ask that to people?
DV (37:13):
I do. I do. I do ask that the, the first, the first glance, you know, especially if they’re outside kind of the entrepreneurial world, not heard about these things, they look at me going, excuse me. Oh, what, and, and so then it’s really probing. Like how did you become you? Where did you grow up?
AJV (37:33):
The first
DV (37:34):
Question you have, like, you know, just kind of going down the journey and then you see the person getting more comfortable. Cause at the end of the day, people like talking about themselves, they really do. It’s just, we’ve been trying to really, for a lot of people, we only speak about this and we don’t speak more about this and we do this and you’ve learned kind of these ways to put yourself out there. So that you’re, you’re captivated in the best light. And so when you kind of go in a different route, people are just more willing to have conversations. And then you’re able to share about you and your story and your authentic self of who you
AJV (38:11):
Are. Oh, I love that so much. Anything that helps me create stories around, tell me who you are not about what you do is like a big thing in my life right now, I was at a it was a charity event thing and I was standing outside, standing in line to get a glass of wine. And this young lady walks up to me. She just introduced herself. You were just like chit chatting. And she just says, well, what’s your name? How do you know the host? And she goes, how do you fill the hours of your week? And I was like, I’m sorry, what
DV (38:45):
A great question. I’m gonna write that.
AJV (38:49):
I stopped in my tracks. And I said, you mean like, what do I do for work? And this was like six months ago or something. This is like, kind of like triggered my own default to asking these silly questions. And she’s like, well, I mean, that could be a part of it, but you know, just how do you feel the hours of your day? And I was like, well, in the mornings started, I was like, well, in the mornings I have two toddlers. And so, and then I started like regurgitating my schedule. And she was like, that’s so fascinating.
DV (39:21):
AJV (39:22):
It was one of those things. I’m like, how do I spend hours? But it was like such a nice of, and then I said, are you intentionally trying not to ask like the people do for work? And she goes, yeah, it’s a really intentional effort of mine. And I said, I’m totally stealing this and I’m gonna
DV (39:52):
I love
AJV (39:54):
Very similar. It’s like, so tell me about how you became you. Right. I love that. I, I love that. And so, alright, so I’m gonna flip that on you. So Denise, how did you become you?
DV (40:06):
Oh, I should have never given it away.
AJV (40:12):
You
DV (40:12):
Know, I think our life is fools with, we talked about it, ups and ups and downs, right valleys. I’d say I became me starting with a very strong minded beautiful kind mom. I was very fortunate to have her in my life and, and to have her in my life. So my dad died and I was five. And my mom raised me as a single mom for wait till I was about 14 when she remarried. Luckily for me though, I have 52 first cousins and 32 aunts and uncles. So I always had family around. And I think, you know, they helped me become who I was. All those cousins all lived in the same city. So we were always at somebody’s house. I was always playing sports. I was mostly boy cousins for some reason we didn’t
DV (41:30):
I think it was probably one of the only lies that I’ve ever really told her, which at that time in my life, I really needed to get away. It was time for me to fly the co and she really wanted me to stay. And I graduated from high school, top 10% of my class, and I’m a first generation college graduate. My family didn’t know really the how to make the transition for me to go to college. And I said that UT Austin was the only college that accepted me and I wasn’t accepted anywhere else. And, and mind you, I did pay my own way. So this wasn’t a financial burden on my family, but I needed to go. And I left and I, that was probably a huge pivotal moment. So I went from this little pond of an all girls Catholic high school to all of a sudden 50,000 students at UT. And it was awesome. I loved UT
AJV (42:36):
DV (42:39):
Awesome. And then I just, I kept growing. I found my passion for teaching there and felt really fell in love with it. I really felt that was the right place to be. And I would not have found that without two things, one, my mom who gave me permission to look outside of making money and to really find something that I was good at. And then secondly, was an offsite internship I had to do at the school for the blind, visually impaired and the two together and the young boy that I was working with at the school paved my way for the next 14 years. And then you know, there was lots of movement and I think years later, about eight years after teaching six, six to eight years, I decided that I wanted to go in and get my master’s and then my PhD in education.
DV (43:34):
And I think for me that was also a big pivotal point. I think I realized that I could do something even more than just for me, it was helping my classroom than it was even more. If I could help the school, then it was even more I could help a district. And so I really wanted to expand that. You know, so I think that’s really, and then from there I came an entrepreneur and then that was, you know, that was crazy. I mean, our journey has been fascinating at our companies. I’ve worked with the largest brands in the United States. We’ve been truly blessed in so many ways. And I think all of those things made me mean
AJV (44:20):
I love that. And I, I think, you know, this whole thing is like building an influential personal brand. And I think the best way you can build influence is you just get to know someone that’s the best way to have influence it’s. If I don’t know, you, you have very little influence over my decisions day to day, but if I know you and I, I like you and I trust you, you have great influence over my daily decisions and behaviors. And I, I love that. And I think if we all need to be a little bit more focused on how did you become who you are not, tell me about how you did all these things you did. Right.
AJV (44:56):
And I, and it’s like, and I still, like, there’s still a huge part of teaching in you. Right. And for those of you listening you know that about a year ago, we talk about this all the time. We launched our, you know, national research study, the trends and personal branding you know, it’s Denise’s company, her and her husband’s company that fielded this research for us. And it’s like today, he’s like, you run a team of researchers, right? It’s like, there’s still that education component that has stayed with you, even through your entrepreneurial journey. It’s like, you are a research firm, right? It’s like, you’re doing research for books and you’re doing research for these huge brands, but there’s a seriously academic part of what you do that has made you so successful
DV (45:39):
Completely. And thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Teaching is, is embedded in me. I love it. Sometimes I come off just as a teacher or my husband always gets mad at me. He’s like, don’t use your teacher voice on me. And I don’t mean to, but I, I love, I love getting educated. And so kind of my love language is to serve others in the, in that same way. So I really enjoy being part of those educational moments with our team and training our talent development programs that we do even like our talent acquisition and just teaching about the jobs. It it’s, it’s fascinating. And I get so much inspiration by seeing somebody’s face to slide up. I mean, I remember when I was younger, I started teaching when I was 22 and I remember thinking how that would never go away for me.
DV (46:36):
And you know, now I’m 50 and it still has never gone away for me. It’s, it’s almost amazing coupled with, and I will share this coupled with now, many of the students who I was in educational, like I said, for 14 years, just about so thousands of students that I’ve interacted with and I get every once in a while, somebody who pops up who comes up to me and says, are you miss be? And I say, yes. And, and they say something that just, you know, makes me smile. Like, I remember when you said this joke and I’ve always kept it with me, or I’ve had a couple of people say I became a science teacher because of you, those moments in time, you just they’re true blessings.
AJV (47:21):
Amazing. No, I’m not miss via I’m Dr. Via
AJV (47:25):
DV (48:52):
Okay, those are good questions. So why gen Z? So our company is really founded on separating generational myth from truth. So that’s the core. And it was founded because we were finding out that CEOs were using data and the data wasn’t matching what they were saying. So that’s kind of how our company really started is, well, if they’re taking this data and it’s not matching what they’re saying, there’s teaching element and saying, they’re not understanding the data for some reason, another, or the data is not being read in a way that shows the information correctly. So let’s just make our own research company, that one shares the data correctly and shares a story that goes with it. So gen Z is kind of that new generation. There were so many myths that came up with millennials and you guys did get a lot of hate.
AJV (49:52):
A lot of it.
DV (49:54):
And so of course, when gen Z started coming up, there was a great way to bring out what we were seeing with this generation. And we have been following them for probably a good seven years now. And what I love about this generation from the very beginning was really their, their money sets, which was huge, never saw it in any other generation except the baby boomers. And so that has been a huge part of them and their hard work and diligence which once again, was being portrayed in their earlier lives. And I think we’re seeing it again still into adulthood. So those are two of my favorite aspects about gen Z. I’d say the learning part of writing a book with your spouse. So this was two years of a labor of love. And I will say labor of love
DV (50:59):
I have come up through an academic work body of literature writing as you’re being published for different peer reviews, right? It’s a very different writing style than my husband who is a, you know, a, a published author multiple times over that has a very different voice and merging those two together. Oh my goodness gracious. That was probably the hardest things that we did. But at the end of the day, it worked, it took a lot of giving on my part and a lot of giving on his part. And there was many things if you get the book and you’ll notice, oh, Denise definitely wrote this. Because I channel data a little bit differently. Well, when my husband does so well, as he makes the everyday user read it and understand it instantly. And so we just, we really had to practice merging those two voices. And and so on top of doing the research, which took about a year to do then putting that together and merging the two voices, it was definitely almost as hard as having a shut
AJV (52:08):
It’s kinda like birthing a child of sorts. And I love the stories of anyone who has ever gone through the process of writing a book, you know, back like what we said. It’s like, nothing happens overnight.
AJV (52:21):
Neither does writing a book. Y’all it’s like, and I, we have so many people who enter into this very fortunate community. We’ve been able to help curate at brand builder’s group of going all right. My goal is the next 12 months is to write a book, get it published. And I’m like, we’re gonna need to adjust those goals.
AJV (53:03):
And Rory is very gray, right? He’s like, well, that’s the best part of this and the worst part. And I’m like, Nope, she’s this or this
DV (54:10):
Completely. And you have that backup to show you, Nope, this is what it said. And it’s statistically valid and we’ve done confidence in our roles and, and you can play up all the words and it’s, it’s valuable. And it also aligns with what you’re doing. It makes you feel like I’m doing this right. Or
AJV (54:59):
Yeah. You said something that just made me think about this is, you know I’m I’m, as you are. It’s like, I think feedback is one of the gifts that I didn’t always want. But I always need, and it’s like, I love getting feedback and input, and to me doing research was like another way of getting feedback. Yeah. It was, I can’t see what I can’t see. And sometimes I’m just, you know, the old saying I’m too close to the forest to see the trees. Yeah, exactly. Cause I need to get outta my own echo chamber. Right. Mm-hmm
AJV (55:44):
Like that was really good to go. You know, I think one of the big data points that came up to me, which I thought was so interesting to hear yours about gen Z was like mine about personal branding. Was that testimonials 62% of Americans say that testimonials is the number one most important factor when deciding whom to hire, not if you have a book or viral, Ted talk are large social media following none of those things, it was like at the very, very top of the list. And then 10 percentage points down was the next one, but 62%. Where do you have testimonials of other people validating that you are, who you say you are and you do what you say you’re gonna do. And for us, and the way that companies and people spend marketing dollars, I’m like, oh my gosh, this is the cheapest, fastest, easiest thing that you can do. It’s like you take that or it’s like, get on national media, create a viral Ted talk, get a New York times bestselling book. And I’m like, oh my gosh, like we’ve been, we’ve been putting all of our time energy resources into potentially the wrong avenue. It’s not that we shouldn’t do the other things, but it’s like, where should the majority of our intent go? It was so, so helpful.
DV (56:55):
And if you’re a gen Z, you’re gonna look at least 10 of ’em before you make a decision. I mean, you know, so there is some even way the different generations look at reviews who you’re trying to hit will give you some idea of what do these need to look like, or how many should I have up there, et cetera. Which I think is, is really helpful when you’re looking at your own personal brand or your company or anything, really people, people search those number one thing. And I, you know, I will say that we had so much fun working on your report. I just, I love working with friends because it gets me even closer into the mindset of what you do and what you and Rory do. And it was really neat working on that project.
AJV (57:39):
DV (58:28):
Aw, thank you, AJ. It was a pleasure. Thank you for having me really appreciate talking into doing it.
AJV (58:34):
Oh, this was so awesome. I love it. And for everyone listening make sure you stay tuned for the recap episode and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand. See y’all.
Ep 323: High-Performance Secrets of NBA Superstars with Alan Stein Jr. | Recap Episode
RV (00:02):
High performance secrets from NBA superstars. What a fascinating conversation with Alan Stein. And man, I loved that more than I, more than I thought I would. You know, I’m just not, I’m not a huge sports guy anymore. Although I used to be, it was like my whole life growing up as a kid was Chicago
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Bulls.
RV (00:22):
But what a tremendous conversation, if you didn’t listen, go back and listen. It is fantastic. I’m gonna share with you some of my highlights. If you didn’t pick this up Alan was a skills trainer for NBA superstars and I’m talking superstars, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, step Curry. This guy was in the gym, working with them and you know, has written a book and started as a speaking career, sort of, sort of talking about it. And, and so I’m gonna share with you my three top takeaways from the interview of what hit me and also what I’ve been, what, you know, how I, how I interpret and internalize all these conversations. And the first one is really from Kobe Bryant. So it’s coming from Kobe Bryant by way of Allen,
Speaker 2 (01:07):
But Kobe said something so important. He said the best, never get bored with the basics. The best never get bored with the basics and from somebody that was so spectacular as a player,
RV (01:23):
As a performer, as Kobe Bryant,
Speaker 2 (01:25):
To
RV (01:25):
Hear him
RV (01:26):
Say that is, is moving to me and it’s inspiring to me and it’s validating for me and it’s edifying for me because I agree with that the best don’t get bored with the basics because the basics are what hold everything up. The, the really I would, I would say the, the people who are the best are the best, because they’re the best at the basics. They’re not the, they’re not the best at the exceptional. They’re not the best at the flashy. They’re not the best at the extraordinary. They’re brilliant at the basics. And that’s the thing to ask yourself, are you brilliant at the basics? Are you like, are you brilliant? Are you executing the fundamentals? Are you doing the things consistently that need to be done to grow your business? And, and when I think of like sales, right? I go, referrals are the basics.
RV (02:14):
It’s the fundamentals, but it’s the only thing you need. Like, are you asking for referrals in your business? If you are, you’re probably succeeding or you will be soon when, when you look at marketing and you go, are you putting out content consistently in many different places, right? Our content diamond formula that we teach are, are you following that? Are you doing it consistently? If you’re trying to be a speaker, are you speaking consistently? Are you, are you, are you on podcast interviews consistently? Are you, are you being brilliant at the basics? And personal branding is no different. Like these are the things every single weekend and week out, I gotta create a video. I gotta create a podcast. Our team’s gotta run a production
RV (02:53):
Schedule to just keep things going.
RV (02:55):
We gotta drive leads. Our sales team has to show up. They have to, you know, have conversations. They have to call follow up. They have to close. We have to onboard new people. Like we have to, we get to, we get to do all those things. And, and if, if the basics are good enough for Kobe Bryant, the basics are good enough for me. They should be good enough for you. And it’s, it’s the secret. It’s the truth. Like here’s the irony is I think people look at superstars and they go to superstars thinking if I could just get access to this superstar, then they’ll teach me the secrets. Then, then like, there’s, there’s some hidden playbook that we’re looking for. We, we convince ourselves that, that there’s something that they know that we don’t know. And if we could know what they know, then all of a sudden everything would be unlocked.
RV (03:44):
And there is a secret that they know that we don’t know the secret is there. Isn’t a secret. There isn’t a secret. The secret is to be brilliant at the basics, or as Kobe says the best don’t get bored with the basics. And so they’re not chasing flashy. They’re not chasing fancy. They’re not, they’re not chasing the spectacular they’re mastering, dominating and becoming brilliant at the basics. And so the question is, are you, am I, are we, what are the basics in your business? And are you dominating them? Are you mastering them? That was just so, so powerful for me. The second takeaway from that conversation with Alan was when he said these ultra performers, these superstar athletes have an amazing blend between confidence and humility, confidence, and humility. And I totally agree with that. I’ve seen the same thing over and over with ultra performers that I’ve been around in my life.
RV (04:52):
You know, and, and people think they, they get this mixed up. This is an important distinction. And it’s a balance that you need to understand that that confidence and humility are not at odds with one. Another confidence is not the opposite of humility. Pride is pride is the opposite of humility. Like being prideful is, is like, that’s more about who you’re doing it for, right? To me, confidence is the way you’re doing it, but pride is who you’re doing it for. And so when, when, when you have confidence, the way you’re, it’s the way you’re doing it, you’re doing it bold. You’re doing it aggressive. You’re doing it assertive. You’re, you’re, you’re doing it. You’re doing it with fire. You’re doing it with passion. You’re, you’re all in. You’re leaning into it. You are, you are, you are utilizing and accessing and withdrawing and leveraging and polling and investing every asset you have into to what you’re doing, the way you’re doing it and doing it well, pride is totally different. Pride is who you’re doing it for pride, prideful and
RV (05:56):
Being prideful is like, I’m doing it for me. I’m number one. I want everyone to see, you know, how great I am to me, that’s pride. And that’s the opposite of humility. But I think people, especially, if, if I may say, I think Christians are, are an interesting subgroup of people who struggle with this. At least I can speak for myself as a Christian, right? Because it’s like the meek inherit shall inherit the earth and, and humility is valued. And so it almost feels like if I’m being confident, I’m somehow being unholy, I’m being unspiritual or are I’m, you know, I’m, I’m not, I’m being less Christian, but I don’t see those at conflict at all. At least not now, I’ve been able to reconcile. I do see pride as being an issue because pride is doing it for me, showing the world, look at me, look how awesome I am.
RV (06:44):
Y’all need to respect me. And you bow down to me. And pride is a massive problem because it is in conflict with, you know, the first commandment of like no other God’s before me, where it’s like, humility is my life is in service of God. And my life is in service of the people around me. It’s not about elevating me so I can be humble and extraordinarily confident at the same time, I can be bold and humble. I can be confident and meek. I can be aggressive and assertive, assertive, and, and still be holy. But pride is different. Pride is like, I’m taking up the space of the most important of the most high, and that’s a problem. But and that’s different even than, than taking pride in your work. I think that’s different than being prideful. So these players, you know, probably take pride in their work, but they’re not prideful.
RV (07:38):
It’s not look at me. I’m the best. I’m the man y’all bow down. They’re they’re but they are extremely confident. I can take that shot. I’ve I’ve practiced this thousands of times. I loved, I loved when Alan said this in the interview, he said, if you hadn’t seen how many times Steph Curry had taken these millions of shots in an empty gym, you wouldn’t be as impressed when he makes 12 threes in a game. Right? It’s you know, for most of us like, oh my gosh, 12 threes, this is in a game. This is superhuman, but you go, nah, he’s like hitting 12 threes in an hour all the time, because he’s shooting millions and millions and millions of shots. It wouldn’t seem that like, you know, it just wouldn’t be that much of a superhero, cuz it’s like, it’s, it’s more like muscle memory.
RV (08:22):
And so I think that’s, what’s really cool is you can be confident and bold, but you can also have the humility to put in the work and, and focus on the basics and to keep practicing. And you know, I, I loved when he was telling the story about how Kobe was, you know, most players are working out once a day, the best are working out twice. Kobe’s working out three times a day, he’s leaving his first workout by the time people show up. And it’s like, he realized that if I do that every day, no one will ever catch me. Like over the course of a day, it doesn’t add up to much over the course of a, of a week. It doesn’t add up maybe to much, but over the course of a season, two seasons, five seasons, you know, a decade, it adds up so much.
RV (09:03):
So this blend of confidence and humility, you can have both, they’re not competing. They’re totally reconcilable. And you need both, at least, you know, this is a high performing secret of NBA superstars. According to Alan, which I concur with. And then the third one actually I thought was super relevant, especially for personal brands. Now at brand builders group, I think there’s sort of three core audiences that we serve. And, and I, I think of them as experts, entrepreneurs and executives. So experts are like speakers, coaches, trainers entrepreneurs are people who are more like professional service providers or direct sales people, or just, you know, they have some type of business and they’re, they’re not selling a product related to their expertise per se. They’re, they’re just driving leads for their existing product or their existing business. And then you have executives who are mostly on the hunt for a raise or promotion or maybe getting hired at some other company or, or just industry visibility.
RV (10:01):
But when I look at the expert portion of our audience, speakers, coaches, and coaches specifically, this was super relevant because, you know, I asked Alan, I said, you know, are you ever like insecure that, that you’re coaching the best players in the world? Like clearly they’re better than you are. And yet they’re receiving coaching from you. And I, I loved what he said, as he said, I knew they were better players than me. And they knew they were better players than me, but that doesn’t exclude them. That doesn’t exclude me from being able to add value to what they’re working on. Right? Like that doesn’t exclude me from being able to help them. And that was a really powerful and an important moment because you know, a lot of you, if you’re coaches or speakers, it’s like, you don’t necessarily have to have done something at the level or to the full extent that somebody else has.
RV (11:03):
You need to be an expert, you need to have results. You need to know what you’re doing, but you can still add tremendous value. So first of all, there’s, there’s that right? You can still add value, but the other part that hit me was going, there’s a big difference between being the world’s greatest player and being the world’s greatest coach. There’s a big difference between being the world’s greatest player and the world’s greatest coach. They’re not the same thing, many most nearly all of the world’s greatest players were never the world’s greatest coach. In fact, in all of professional sports, it’s extremely rare where a player wins a championship as both a player, and then goes on to win a championship as, as a head coach. Now, I, I look through this up a little bit and it’s, it actually has happened more often than I not specifically in basketball in football it’s like Mike, Mike DKA and Tom Flores.
RV (12:03):
And like Gary Koyak, there’s only a few in football where the, they won a super bowl as a player, but then also won a championship as a coach. And, and, you know, specifically as a superstar, like, I, I wouldn’t, I don’t, I hope he wouldn’t mind. I, I wouldn’t think of Gary Kubiak as a superstar player. He was a great player. I was Denver Broncos, right. I was Broncos fan. So I, I, I watched Kubiak, but a great coach and you know, an amazing hall of fame career. But my DKA, I would say was, you know, superstar and one as a coach, but that’s very, very rare now in the NBA. Steve Kerr did it you know, of course won championships with the bulls and then also won as a, as a coach. And Phil Jackson has done it, you know, but mostly as a coach, I think nine rings as a coach and two as a player.
RV (12:53):
And again, I wouldn’t think of him as a superstar player, but he is one of the greatest coaches of all time. And I didn’t know this, but Patrick Riley won a championship as a player. And then also, you know, as a, as a coach, but bill Russell was a superstar player and also won championships as a coach. But outside of like those, I, there weren’t a ton. Like it doesn’t happen that often. And, and, and even when it does it, doesn’t, it doesn’t exclude this point here. That there’s a difference between being the greatest player or one of the world’s greatest players and one of those greatest coaches. And it’s very rare and hard and not necessary to be both. And I think about this at brand builders group, right? Like, you know, we’re coaching many of the biggest personal brands in, in the world, right?
RV (13:36):
I I’m I’m or, or coaching advising, you know, being their strategist, I guess, is the technical term, but like ed, Mylet got way more followers than we do. He makes a lot more money than we do. He’s sold a lot more books than his launch than we did, but he’s humble enough to invite in somebody like, you know, us because we know something about it. And, you know, you, you, you take his reach his reputation. I mean, his, the success of his book launch is because of him. I mean, there was a whole team that helped him. We were part of that team, but it was really because of, of him, but yeah, our system helped. Yeah. We coached him through it. Yeah. We, we have a process that really made a difference and you know, of course he’s been super generous and, and grateful publicly about that.
RV (14:22):
And, and it just shows you that going, Hey, I’ve never performed in terms of, in some of those metrics as, as the way that he has. He allows me to speak into that Louis House, same thing, Eric Thomas Tom and Lisa BIU these, you know, we we’re, we’re getting more and more, we’re working with these very, very like high profile clients because we get really good results and we, you know, the word is spreading that what we do actually works and it’s ethical and it’s honest and all that stuff. So personally I experienced this now. I think I’ve performed in many ways. Like if you say personal branding, you know, speaking author, there’s many ways that I’ve I’ve been a great player. I don’t know if I would say superstar, I mean, a hall of fame speaking and, and New York times bestselling author are, I mean, I guess very legitimate things, but it doesn’t matter.
RV (15:12):
The point is for you, if, even if you’ve never been the greatest player, you’ve never been a superstar. You can still add value like Alan who, who was interviewing. He’s not gonna be in the NBA hall of fame yet. He’s coaching some of the best players in the history of the game, because he knew the game really well. And he was a great coach. And so I just hope if you ever have that, that sort of imposter syndrome of like, ah, you know, am I qualified to coach entrepreneurs who do better than me? You go, well, sh sure you might be, you might not be, but you might be, if you have legitimate insights that can help them, even if you’ve never been to that level yourself. Now that said, I really pride myself and AJ really prides herself. We pride ourself as a culture at brand builders group that we teach people to do things that we do and that we have done.
RV (16:04):
So, you know, we’re not teaching someone like ed, Mylet something that we haven’t done ourselves or tried out. It’s just, we’re teaching of something that we know that we know works. And then because of who he is and his reputation and his reach and his trust and all of his other relational capital and all the other assets that he has, it’s just, it, it’s a, a bigger result on a, on a grander scale. So, you know, it’s just kind of a balance, right? But like, don’t feel that imposter syndrome that just because someone’s older than you, or you know, maybe you think somehow smarter than you, or maybe they make more money than you, or they have a bigger business than you. It doesn’t exclude you from being able to add value to what they’re doing just in and of itself. And then also going well, yeah, the greatest players don’t hire the other greatest players to teach them.
RV (16:55):
They hire the greatest coaches. So you go, maybe I wasn’t, maybe I’m not the greatest player, but I’m gonna focus on being one of the greatest coaches who’s ever, you know, been in this profession. That’s awesome. Right. I mean, Phil Jackson has nine rings as a coach. I think it’s nine and two as a player. And it’s like, people think of him as a coach, one of the greatest coaches of all time, like he’s coaching Michael Jordan, you know, Kobe Shaq. Incredible. So just keep that in mind. And again, at this points to how insecurity and self-doubt is always, you only feel those things when you’re thinking about yourself, you don’t think about them when you’re, when you’re thinking about other people, when you’re just going, I’m here to help. I’m here to serve. I’m here to add value to you. I’m here to make a difference in, in your career, in your life.
RV (17:43):
I’m not worried about what you think of me or what my credentials are. I am here focused on you. I’m here to help you. That is a part of the essence of what makes a great coach even, and especially at the superstar level. So thank you for being here. Thank you for the honor of allowing us, me, AJ, our team at brand builders group to speak in your life. It it’s a, it it’s, you know, preaching to the choir here by, by definition, you’re here. Listening is a sign of, of humility and coachable coachability, and also hopefully confidence and boldness to go chase your dreams and knock ’em down and do the work it takes to make them a reality. So share this podcast with someone who, you know, who’s a sports fan. Who’s also thinking about building their business or they’re an entrepreneur or building their personal brand. This is a great one. Both the recap and the interview with Alan, make sure you go follow Alan on social and leave him a comment. Send him some love. Just say hi, let him know. You heard him here on the influential personal brand podcast. We’ll catch you next time.
Ep 322: High-Performance Secrets of NBA Superstars with Alan Stein Jr.
RV (00:02):
Well, it’s not every day that you get a chance to talk to somebody who worked closely for years and years and years with people like Kobe Bryant and Steph Curry and Kevin Duran and our guest today, Alan Stein Jr. Did exactly that. So for 15 years he worked as a, basically a, a high performance skills and mental training coach for NBA superstars and athletes. And in the last few years, he’s transitioned over into speaking and writing. He’s got a couple books out. His first book has done very, very well. It’s called raise your game, high performance secrets from the best of the best. And then he has a new book out called sustain your game. And I just saw him in person recently at the event that we had for ed my let’s book launch in North Carolina, and we sort of connected there. And then he was on ed my let’s podcast a couple weeks before I was. And anyways, I just, I really love Alan and what he’s about and the people he’s hanging out with and, and what he’s doing. And I just was sort of curious, like, man, I, I wanna know what’s going on behind the scenes with some of NBA superstars and to see if I can get a little free coaching for myself. So welcome to the stage a Stein Jr. What’s up, man.
ASJ (01:18):
Aw, man. It’s so great to be with you. I’m looking forward to a fun conversation and I’ll give you all the coaching you want my friend
RV (01:23):
ASJ (02:06):
Well, you know, I’ve never gone by or embraced the junior part of my name. And, and throughout my basketball training career, it was always just Alan Stein. And when I decided to make the distinct pivot outside of, you know, to leave the direct training space of basketball and inter corporate speaking when I went to get my website domain and social handles Alan Stein was taken so I, I wanted to try and figure out a way to keep that branding consistent. But I also wanted to find a way from a searchable and SEO standpoint to kind of differentiate my two professional lives. So if you, you Google Alan Stein, you’re probably gonna find a lot of stuff from my basketball days and training. But when I add the junior, now it’s a very distinct difference and that’s kind of the corporate keynote speaking. And in writing that I do, and it’s allowed me to have alanine jr.com and at alanine Jr. On all social platforms. So smart, there’s kind kind of a branding play and just a, a separator for sure.
RV (03:03):
Yeah. I love that. I mean, that’s really smart to have that consistency, like man, it’s so it’s so tricky when you’re like, how do I tag this person on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and it’s all different every time. Like I actually have some issues with that myself because when we sold our company, some of my profiles were caught up in that transaction. So, but anyways, so I wanna, I wanna talk to you about what you talk about and what a lot of people ask you about, which is like, what is it, what do you learn? What have you learned from coaching? I mean, you’re not just coaching professional athletes, you’re coaching or coached some of the most legendary players in the history of the game. I mean, Steph Curry, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, like these are, these are at the, the absolute peak of the peak of the peak of the peak performance in one of the most competitive games in the world. So I’m curious, you know, for both myself and for the person listening, how do, what can we take from the, the mindset it takes to operate at that level?
ASJ (04:09):
Three things jump out immediately. And, and my favorite part of these three things is they have such high utility. You know, they, they apply to every area of our lives. I mean, these three things allow me to be a better speaker and run a better speaking business. But they also allow me to be a better father. And I’ve, I’ve always been fascinated by principles and strategies that have that type of utility. The very first one is, is something that I learned from Kobe Bryant that changed my life forever when he said the best, never get bored with the basics and that if you want to be good at anything, you have to work towards mastery of the fundamentals relentlessly during the unseen hours. And you know, the very first thing I do with anyone that I work with is get them to identify what are the basic building blocks required to be good in this specific area of your life. You know, if, if you want to thriving in healthy marriage, what are the basics of having a thriving and healthy marriage? If you wanna run an elite speaking business, what are the fundamentals required of doing that? So getting clarity, and I know that’s what you all are all about getting clarity on the basics and the fundamentals, and then having the, the humility to stick to them on a daily basis was definitely the first lesson. The
RV (05:20):
Second was, let me hold on. I wanna stop there cuz I wanna dig in on, on, on, on this, like there’s, this is so true for us because Alan, you know, people come to us and they go, oh, I wanna become a New York times bestselling author. Like, so and so, or I wanna have a podcast like Lewis Houser, I wanna speak on stages. I wanna have, you know, have millions of people watch my videos like Eric Thomas. And then it’s like, okay. And we go, great. We’ve broken it down step by step systematically. There’s there is no question about if we can teach people to do all of those things, we are a hundred percent sure that it works, cuz we’re doing it ourselves in addition to like doing with, with other people, but nobody wants to do it. And it’s the same thing. Like when, when you think of you know, like you think of Kobe Bryant, you think of the game winning shot, you think of these epic highlight real dunks. Tell us, like, tell me a little bit about him in real life. Like to this point of never being bored with the basics and to the fundamentals, even when he was at his peak, was he doing that or did, was that just sort of like something he did to get to the NBA or like how long was that a part of what his philosophy was?
ASJ (06:29):
Such an insightful question and I’m glad you went in that direction. You know, continuing to work on and work towards mastery of the basics, remained a fundamental component throughout his entire career. And then he took that same mindset, you know, when, when he left basketball and re and retired and he had that same mindset in business. Now what’s important to, to have discernment is I’m not saying that he never graduated to more advanced techniques and more advanced skills and drills. He obviously did what I’m saying is he never left the basics behind. He realized that those were the foundation to which the rest of the house was built. So the very first time I had a chance to watch him work out in one of his private workouts. Back in 2007, he spent the first 45 minutes doing basic footwork, basic shooting mechanics, basic ball handling drills.
ASJ (07:18):
I mean to the tune of stuff that I had already taught those things to middle school, age players. And here you’re talking about, you know, arguably the best player of a generation, certainly the best player in 2007. And yet he still made the commitment to focusing on those fundamentals for the first portion of his workout. And then of course, again, he would matriculate up and graduate to more advanced techniques, but he would never leave them. And, and as I’ve been a part of and, or studied other thriving organizations, especially in sports, you know, a, a duke basketball or a new England Patriots back in their heyday, you know, it was the same thing. You know, their practices and their workouts were built on the fundamentals of the game. They never left those that wasn’t something they said, well, we’re gonna do these things until we get good and then we’ll just leave them behind.
ASJ (08:06):
They made sure those were a staple of everything they did moving forward. And, and I know in my own life, you know, anytime I don’t believe I’m getting the results that I, I think I’m capable of when I, I sit with some self-reflection and some introspection, I usually realize that I’ve, I’ve started to skip the basics. I’ve started to, to kind of, you know, move on to more advanced techniques and leave them behind. And as soon as I refocus that lens and get that required clarity and get back to the fundamentals, I see my performance escalate again. So it’s, it’s not about never moving past them is just about never leaving them behind
RV (08:42):
Mm-Hmm
ASJ (08:56):
Well, this is another part that kind of a part two to the story of when I saw him work out, that I thought was so cool was he had cuz the workout that I watched him do was really, really, really early in the morning. I mean at 3:30 AM type of work to some people that’s almost late cuz they’re considering it from the day before, but that was his first workout of the day. And, and he said to me at that time, cuz I asked him why he chose to get up that early. And he said even the most dedicated and determined NBA players in the off season, cuz this was an off season workout. He said the most D driven and ambitious NBA players will work out twice a day. They’ll work out for two to three hours mid-morning then they’ll take a little break and they’ll work out for two to three hours midafternoon and he said, if I only do what everybody else does, then I’ll only have what everyone else has.
ASJ (09:43):
I need to do more than they do. And this, this really parlays into, you know, ed my let’s concept of the power of one more. So Kobe said, if I can go in and get my first workout before they’re even awake and I’m leaving the gym from my first workout, as they’re coming to the gym for their first workout and then they’re coming home from their first workout and I’m heading in for my second workout, he said, I’ll always be a step ahead. And, and that might not matter over a couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months, but when you start to stack years and in his case decades, he said, no one will ever be able to catch me simply because I’m always doing one more than they are. And that was really kind of the, the cornerstone of his Mamba mentality.
ASJ (10:24):
And, and with that said, and I always make this disclaimer and I especially make it with younger players when I would work in that space. I don’t want everyone to think that the answer is always more as better. And that, you know, you know, if, if, if you’re working 12 hour days that working 16 hour days does not necessarily mean that that will improve your business. I mean, there’s, there’s a variety of, of different individual scenarios, but I just liked his mindset and his mindset was my edge is going to be my work ethic, my, my obsession towards mastering the fundamentals. And I’m always gonna do a little bit more than you’re going to do and you’ll never beat me. And I, I think that’s an incredible mindset to have.
RV (11:03):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I have to say like, you know, there’s a lot of this, like anti hu, like, you know, everyone was like, oh, the hustle culture. And then there’s like been this pendulum of like, oh, anti hustle. You don’t have to hustle. And you know, I’m not saying that you have to work your whole life. Like that’s all you do to be successful. But when I just look at the reality of the stories of the people who have become the elite in their profession, the volume of time spent matters tremendously. Like, and, and you know, I think, I think a lot of people would look at Kobe Bryant and go, oh, he is gifted. Right. Cause he was drafted straight outta the out of high school. Right. And go, oh yeah, totally gifted. Like just like wonder kin like the, the chosen one.
RV (11:49):
But then to hear this story of going that happened for decades and so people, they couldn’t catch him. And so it, it’s a different side of the story and it go, I’m not advocating for all we do is work, but I am, I, I can’t argue with the facts of the matter, which is that no, nobody gets to be at that level by just doing it. Part-Time like nobody. So that’s, that’s power, that’s powerful. And you’d say the same is true for Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, all the other teams in organizations you’re working with.
ASJ (12:23):
Absolutely. What, what most novice fans don’t see is that, that peak behind the curtain of the unseen hours, which I’ve been privy to. And you know, obviously this is during the NBA off season when we’re recording this, but let’s just say it was in the heart of the season. And, and Steph has one of his magical games where he knocks down 12 threes and scores, 60 points and people are mesmerized by that. And, and I certainly get that. It’s an incredible feat, but if they knew how much work he put in during the unseen hours and how many millions of shots he’s taken and Macon in empty gyms, when no one else is around, it actually becomes less spectacular. And I say that with a smile, cuz I’m not diminishing that type of feet, but when you shoot that many shots in an empty gym, when no one’s around, you’re supposed to make those shots.
ASJ (13:09):
When the lights come on and the cheerleaders start dancing and that’s how those guys look at it, you know, they’re never surprised by their unbelievable performances. It’s an expectation for them, but that’s because they’ve put in the work to deserve the right to, to perform that well. And that actually leads to the, the second lesson that I learned from those guys is they do a masterful job of blending confidence, which is what they earn through time in the unseen hours. They blend that with humility, which is what allows them to stay open to, to feedback is what allows them to stay open to being coached is what allows them to say, you know, you all might say I’m the best player in the NBA, but I’m not as good as I’m capable of becoming. So I’m gonna get back in the gym. You know, I mean, when, when I watched Kobe go through that workout, he was already an NBA champion already, an Allstar already, a multimillionaire, you know, 20 times over, already a surefire first ballot hall of Famer.
ASJ (14:04):
And he’s in the gym at three 30 in the morning working on his craft because he doesn’t believe he’s as good as he’s capable of. And when you can blend that type of confidence with humility, you get something really magical. And, and that’s something else that I’ve, I’ve tried to apply in my own life. I mean, I, I’m not anywhere on a performance level of a Kobe Bryant, but I wanna make sure that I am earning the right to hold someone’s attention when I’m on stage speaking, but I wanna stay open to being coached and, and to growing and, and developing and working on my craft. I mean, I, you know, my next speaking engagement, I aim to make the best one that I’ve ever done. But I also know that 10 years from now, if you have me back on your show, I will be a better speaker, 10 years from now than I am today because of my commitment to craft. And that’s, what’s most important to me.
RV (14:53):
Yeah. Yeah. I, we, we bumped up against this a lot because we have a fair number of like quasi celebrity or celebrity clients that we work with at brand builders group. And, you know, it’s, it’s a little bit amazing to be like, wow, we’re coaching, we’re coaching. We’re punching above our, our weight class here because like some of these people are, I mean, they’re real good and they’ve have, they’ve gotten, you know, had real success in real reach, but then, you know, so there’s like this initial part where you think, oh, that doesn’t make sense. Like why would somebody who’s the best in the world take coaching from somebody who has never even experienced that level personally. And it’s like, no, the reason they’re, they are the best in the world is because they take coaching from, from, from those people. Meanwhile, the people who you who need coaching are the ones who have no idea what they’re doing and they’re not good and they’re not starting and they’re set they’re, they’re not doing it cuz they think they’re above coaching and it’s, it’s not the weak or the, or the untalented or the UN gifted who get coaching.
RV (16:03):
Its the opposite. It’s the, it’s the, the elite highest performers on the, on the planet. And I think that’s amazing. So you talk about earning your confidence. So I like what you were saying there. So you’re so talk to talk to me a little bit more about that. You’re saying that they’re earning it through what they do in the, basically the unseen hours.
ASJ (16:26):
Yeah. They, they understand intimately that repetition is not punishment. Like that’s one of the lessons I teach my own children. Repetition is not punishment. Repetition is the oldest and most effective form of learning and skill acquisition on the planet. And that is never going to change. Even technology won’t change that you have to get in reps if you want to be good at anything. And, and they understand that and they’re willing to put in those reps to an unbelievable degree and you know, the reason Stephan Curry will go down in history as the greatest shooter the game has ever seen is not because he did a bunch of reps to get good. And now he just coast, he’s still in the gym working on his craft. He is still putting up shots, you know on off days and in the off season. Cuz that’s the repetition is what’s what’s required. And certainly it’s true in the speaking game. I mean the, how
RV (17:15):
Do you more reps
ASJ (17:17):
Get on stage the better you’ll be.
RV (17:18):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There’s, there’s no replacement for stage time and for sure. So when you, a lot of people listening are, you know, some type of a coach or a consultant or a leader, you know, kind of this experience like I’m presuming that you’re not, you, you’re not gonna be in the hall of fame, the NBA hall of fame as a player yourself. And so I think there’s a lot of people who end up sort of coaching above their weight class. Like I was talking about. Did, did you ever have insecurities or self doubt yourself? I mean standing on the court with these guys saying, Hey, do it this way. Not that way. Did you ever experience any of that? Like, well, who am I to tell, you know, Kevin Duran, like how to, how to whatever block somebody out or block a shot and how did you get past that?
ASJ (18:09):
Well, I, I got past it. One, by being honest, I mean I wasn’t trying to BS anybody. Those guys knew they were better players than I had ever dreamed of becoming, but they also knew that doesn’t exclude me from having certain expertise or experience that can still add value to what it is that they do. You know, a good portion of coaching comes from that, that intellectual knowledge from certain experiences from having a different vantage point from having different perspectives from shared experiences that you’ve had from other players. So I had to lean into that and say, yes, I realize that you are a better player than I ever. Would’ve been. However, I can still add to your game. You know, I can still give you things that will make you a better player. And with guys like that, you have to prove that very quickly, you know, the, the quickest way to get an elite level player to tune you out is the moment they don’t think you can make them better.
ASJ (19:04):
You know, I think that’s one of the reasons that coach Kay was so successful with, with the Olympic teams was because those guys, and then you’re talking about Kobe, LeBron, Steph Curry, KD, those guys knew that he still had something that could make them better. So they didn’t discount the fact that he was a college coach and they were pros. They realized that he could still make them better based on his experience and expertise. So to me that’s the most important part. I mean, if you look at, and, and I certainly wouldn’t want to go on a tangent of who’s the greatest player of all time, I’m, I’m still kind of in the Michael Jordan camp. And a lot of that is just based on my own age, but Michael Jordan is arguably the best player to ever play the game. So from that previous logic, he could never have a coach because no one is going to be better than him.
ASJ (19:51):
Right. Well, how foolish does that sound? Even me saying it out loud, you know, Phil Jackson was never as good of a player as Michael Jordan, but you better believe Phil Phil Jackson had a, a perspective and a philosophy and experience and expertise that he could use to help mentor and, and groom Michael Jordan to become the player he was. And, and, and I think all of those guys will acknowledge that. So to answer your question, yes, there were certainly moments of kind of that imposter syndrome. Oh my gosh, are they gonna listen to me? But I had to quickly move right through that, lean in with honesty and vulnerability and show them and prove to them that I have something that can make you better.
RV (20:29):
I love that. Okay, so you left us, hang in here, you got three, you covered to cover two of them. So I wanna, I wanna make sure that we have time to get into the third one.
ASJ (20:39):
The, the third is those guys were certainly driven by external results. They wanted to make Allstar teams. They wanted to win NBA championship rings. They wanted to win scoring titles. And, and those were often north stars that, that provided clarity and direction for where they were headed. But after that, they didn’t spend any time focused on results. They put all of their effort into the process. They put all of their effort into what are the habits I need to establish? What are the micro skills I need to develop? What are the behaviors that I need to exude on a, on a daily basis that will get me closer to that north star or that goal? So it wasn’t so much, you know, I want a championship ring as much as it was, what do I need to do today to give myself and my teammates the best opportunity to be a champion next season.
ASJ (21:27):
And they were very, very process driven. And when you can combine, you know, the, the humility and vulnerability, it takes to stick to the basics when you can earn your confidence in the unseen hours, but stay open to coaching and feedback, and you can stay focused on the steps and the processes and the habits you combine, those three things together. There’s really nothing that can stop you. And, and, and there’s no one arguing that the guys that, that we’ve been talking about were born with some physical predispositions that allowed them to be world class athletes. Sure. I mean, they’ll tell you, they were born with certain levels of athleticism, but so are a lot of people and they didn’t actualize it. And then of course, going back to what I said originally about these things, having high utility in the space that you and I play in, it doesn’t matter if you’re five feet tall or seven feet tall.
ASJ (22:13):
It doesn’t matter if you have a four inch vertical jump or a 40 inch vertical jump, the physicality is no longer relevant. So now these things actually are the separators and the difference makers in business or in entrepreneurship or in any of the, the playgrounds that we play in. So these are all things that are under our control, which goes back to your brilliant point, that you can lay out the blueprint of exactly what someone needs to do to reach a certain level of success. And it’s been proven, you guys have proven it with hundreds and hundreds of elite level clients. Problem is people just don’t stick to the script. They don’t execute the blueprint, they get bored with the basics, and then they try to do things their way, if they will follow your recipe, they will get unbelievable results.
RV (22:55):
Yeah, it’s funny. Like you know, I played basketball in high school was my whole big, you know, consuming focus. But when I, when I got to college, the, the way I was able to let go of the dream or what helped me let go of the dream was R realizing that I was competing. I know in, on something that I couldn’t control, which was the physicality part. And so I was like, well, if I’m always gonna be under massively under resourced in this area, I’m gonna quickly shift my attention into something where that is not a part of the game. And you know, that it actually was a pretty quick flip of the switch where it was like, it went from being my whole life to, I pretty much dropped it. You know, just because it was like, oh, I, this is I’m gonna go.
RV (23:46):
I’m gonna go basically find another game to, to play and to, to compete in, which is, which is really cool. So I mean, this is awesome, Alan. I, I, I think it’s, it’s, it’s amazing to me how, how consistent this story is. And, and people don’t necessarily want it to be that way and they try to rationalize it and popular culture tries to change it, but it’s like, this is the deal. And it’s super duper powerful to, to get to see it. So where do, where should we send people? All right. So we have, so your, your, your, you had raise your game, which was the first book, and then sustain your game, just came out. Where, where do you want people to go? If they wanna connect more with you and like, keep up with what you’re doing.
ASJ (24:31):
My primary speaking website is Alan Stein jr.com. And then I have a second,
RV (24:35):
Don’t forget the junior, don’t forget the junior
ASJ (24:38):
Don’t don’t ever forget that. And, and it’s a quick side note to that. Not implying that you ever would, but if you ever meet my father, he’ll tell you the biggest dad, joke of all time. He’ll say I’m Alan steins. I’m the original, he’s the carbon copy.
RV (24:53):
I think that’s funny.
ASJ (24:54):
Yeah, that’s good stuff. So Alan Stein jr.com is the speaking site, stronger team.com has info on my books podcast and online course, and some one-on-one coaching. And then I’m very easily found and very accessible and resp responsive on social media at Allen Stein Jr. On Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook. And then of course you can just search for the books on Amazon or audible or wherever you like to get your books or audio books.
RV (25:18):
I love it, man. Well, what a, what a cool glimpse into what it takes, and then to see you applying it in your own life, in your own business, what you’re doing now as a speaker is really, really cool. Like you can, you can see the, the trajectory of your career just shaping up nicely in terms of like your ability to apply this to other people and to companies and organizations to build stronger teams. It’s really, really inspiring brother. And you know, I’m very encouraged by that and inspired by you. So, so stay the course. We’re cheering for you.
ASJ (25:51):
Thank you.