Category: PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT

Ep 561: Choose Your Hard | Chris Janssen Episode Recap

AJV (00:02):
Choose your hard. That’s the conversation that I would like to have today. I just got off of an amazing conversation with author and coach Chris Janssen. She’s the author of a new book called Grace Yourself, how to Show Up for the Sober Life You Want. And our conversation was about choose your hard and whatever, whatever we choose in life can be hard. Like I heard somebody say the other day, it’s like, life is hard. It’s, it’s just hard. And so it’s up to us to choose our hard. And in this conversation that I had with Chris Jansen, we were talking about very specifically choosing a sober life versus a, a life where something has a stronghold over you. Not necessarily just alcohol, but in this quote I saw the other day, it was like, you know, choose to be fit. That’s hard.
AJV (00:55):
Choose to be fat. That’s hard. Choose to save your money. That’s hard. Choose to go in debt. That’s hard, right? Choose to focus and work on your marriage. That’s hard. Choose not to and get a divorce that’s hard. Choose to prioritize your time and spending time with your kids while you’re young. That, that can be hard. Choose not to do that and miss out on knowing your kids while they’re young. That’s hard. It’s like, regardless of what we choose, there is going to be hard parts to it. It’s just what hard are you going to choose? Right? And it doesn’t matter if it’s a health journey or a money journey or a relationship journey, or it’s a sobriety journey, right? Either way you go, it can be hard and there’s going to be hard parts of whatever it is that you choose.
AJV (01:49):
The differences is, do you want to, you know, choose the salad and be healthy or, you know, choose the dessert and have a temporary indulgence. And I’m not saying having a dessert is bad and having salad every meal is good. I’m not saying that. I’m just saying the repetitive nature of those choices lead to rewards and consequences. Not all that different than, you know, spending money or investing in relationships or anything else. Our choices are what lead to the rewards or the consequences. And there’s going to be hard parts about either there’s gonna be hard long days lots of extra work. There’s going to be discipline and obedience. There’s going to be missing out on some things to get something else later. Like they’re, they’re just hard things. But we each get to choose our hard, and this conversation with Chris was about, you know, you, you could choose right? To, you know, have that quick fix and have that drink in the moment, or you can choose to make a better, healthy choice for your life and
AJV (02:58):
Not do that. And again, not saying having a drink is bad. I’m not saying that. But for some of us, it is for some people it is. And it’s for each of us. We just gotta choose our hard ’cause it’s gonna be hard either way. And so as you’re, as you’re sitting here and listening to this, I just wanted to pose a couple of quick questions. One, what’s the hard that you need to choose in 2025? And it could be, it’s like, I’m gonna choose the hard of getting up at 5:00 AM to get in early morning reading time or time with the Lord, or going on a walk or going to the gym, right? Could it be that it’s like I’m gonna choose the heart of missing out on seemingly a lot of fun stuff because I’m committing to getting in bed by, you know, 9:00 PM it, I don’t know what your heart is.
AJV (03:49):
I’m just saying what is the hard that you need to choose for 2025? Because they can go both ways. There’s the good hard and the bad. Hard, but there’s hard either way. So that’s my first question is, you know, what is the hard that you need to choose for 2025? My second question to you is, what are gonna be the rewards of choosing that hard and the consequences of not choosing that hard in 2025? Because with any choice, right? There comes an opportunity for reward or for consequence. And if you know that there is a hard that you need to choose, and I can just tell you personally for me almost two years ago, it was, I had to give up alcohol. I knew that it had created a default mechanism in my life and my choices. It had a strong hold on the way that I was decompressing.
AJV (04:45):
And I had to give it up. And it was hard. And then it wasn’t . It was hard until it wasn’t. And there were a lot of hard days where it’s like, man, it’s like, am I not getting invited because they know I don’t drink? Or do I, I’m not gonna go to that networking meeting. ’cause I, I feel awkward if I don’t have a drink in my hand. It’s like there was a lot of firsts and a lot of hearts, but the reward has been a healthier, happier me. The consequence would’ve been I was in the same position thinking the same thing two years later, and I hadn’t done anything that would’ve, that was my reward and that could have been my consequence. We all have hearts that we have to pick. I’m just asking you, what’s yours and what’s the reward that you can get from it this year, and what’s the consequence of you not doing it? So it’s 2025. What’s your hard for this year?

Ep 560: Grace Yourself with Chris Janssen

AJV (00:00):
Hey, y’all. Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here today. And I am so, so excited for today’s guest for so many reasons. One, I love her personally. And as I get to introduce Chris, Jan since you guys formally in just a second, I have had the privilege of getting to know Chris over the last year in a variety of different ways. But she’s one of the sweetest, hardest working , personable. Honestly, like when you think about like the ideal person to kind of partner with, like Chris is always, we use her as the exemplary example of like, this is what it means to do the work all the time. And you’re gonna learn about what kind of work she’s been doing as we get into our interview today. But for those of you who are listening, I always tell you why, why do you need to stick around?
AJV (00:51):
And how do you know if this episode is for you? So I invited Chris on the show today for two reasons. One, she’s in the middle of a book launch, right? So when I talk about hardworking , that’s what we’re gonna talk about. Like, what does it mean to launch a bestselling book? Not necessarily just the writing part, right? But the marketing, the selling, the promotion all the work that goes into the words on the pages, but then getting books in hands of people. So if you are an aspiring author, you are an author in process of writing a book, you are just in the process of selling your book. You’re in a book launch, or man, you’re just curious of what it would be like to do that one day. And this is an episode for you. This is a custom tailored episode for the authors and aspiring audience, aspiring authors in our audience.
AJV (01:38):
Secondarily, though, we’re gonna actually talk about the contents of her book, which I think is just a really important topic. And Chris’s upcoming book is called Grace Yourself. And without getting too much into the contents of the book right now, let’s just say that it’s a great reflection of a lot of people are talking about dry January as we are in January, 2025 at the recording of this episode. And so we’re gonna talk about what it means to be sober, curious, and Chris’s journey on that path. So that is, that is who this episode is for. Now, let me formally introduce you to Chris so we can get to our interview, which is the best part. Chris Janssen is a leading results coach in performance and mindset. She’s a bestselling author who’s worked with hundreds of sought after creators entrepreneurs soldiers, small business o owners. She has been taught by and has worked with Tony Robbins on his team of results coaches. She’s a board certified coach with a master’s in counseling psychology with more than 20 years of experience. Chris, welcome to the show.
CJ (02:42):
Thanks, aj. I have the biggest smile on my face ’cause it’s so fun to be here with you. Yes.
AJV (02:48):
This is going to be an amazing episode for so many reasons. But I know that I just get asked all the time, like, what is it like, what do you have to do to have a bestselling book and what, what does that even mean? And since you’re in the middle of a book launch right now, and this is not your first book, what I would love for you to share with the audience is one, what’s been your journey of writing and publishing books up to this one? And how has this one similar or different than what you’ve done in the past?
CJ (03:20):
Mm. That’s such a good question. Yeah, because people ask a lot, you know, what, what do I have to do to write a book? And there’s so much to know, and I am a good person to ask because the first book I self-published and no regrets. I did learn a lot of what I wanted to do differently the second time, though. And so I kind of thought, like a lot of authors, I hear this a lot, that I would write a great book. I had a great editor. I had, I had help. I knew what I was doing. I’m really proud of it. It’s a really good book. It’s a coaching book. But I thought, you know, let’s, let’s self-publish. We’ll put it out there so people can start reading it. I didn’t, none of the, you know, the prep, right? I didn’t, I didn’t have the audience ahead of time. I didn’t think about lists. I just thought all that came after that. If you write a book, you then people start calling you
AJV (04:13):
. Did they?
CJ (04:15):
They, it was, they did not like, I thought though, , but they did. You know, I was asked in small things, you know, I was asked to speak at church. I was asked to do, I, and I did things that were very fun. And really though I did write that book for my clients because I wanted a tool. And I think that’s a great reason to write a book, is who are you writing it for? So I, every word of that book, I knew who I was writing to and I wrote it to my clients. And it’s, it’s a very handy tool. The second time, I would say call brand builders . I called brand builders because, you know, I’ve, I’ve heard you talking about bestselling books. And by that time I knew I had missed the window to make bestseller lists. So now I am full of information of what to do different.
CJ (05:07):
I am still doing it a little bit backwards where I am writing this second book, and I don’t have a huge audience. I have a thriving coaching business. So I have kind of doubled up on the PR side where I’m using the bestseller bestseller launch plan strategy. And then I’m also using a little bit of PR to get me on more stages, right? Because I didn’t have that element. And that’s been phenomenal. I mean, that, it just, it’s like the butterfly effect. It just, people tell, people tell people, and then the message gets to get in the hands of the people. ’cause Not everyone wants to read a coaching book or a book on sobriety. And then when you have these specific audiences, though, those are the people who are looking for that material and they tell the other people looking for that material. Yeah. So it’s been great this time
AJV (06:03):
Around. Well, you know, I, I love that you’ve done it both ways, right? Mm-Hmm . And for all of you guys listening, Chris was our first ever signed author at Mission-Driven Press, which is the hybrid publishing imprint that we started which is a sister company of brand builders group. And so Chris has been so gracious and so helpful to come along as we kind of like cover the, the bumps and bruises of her being our very first author. But what I also think is so powerful is that we tell this to people all the time. There’s like, there’s, there’s self-publishing, there’s hybrid publishing, and then there’s traditional publishing. And they’re all three extremely different. They’re, they’re very different. But I would, I would say something to you that you said, it’s like, I’m kind of doing it backwards. I still don’t have the biggest audience, but we have also seen, for everyone who’s listening, we’ve seen people who have mm-hmm . Millions of followers on social media. Mm-Hmm . Millions of people on their email list mm-hmm . And they still miss the bestseller list. Mm-Hmm . Why? ’cause they thought all they needed to do was write the book.
CJ (07:07):
Right?
AJV (07:08):
I don’t have to go Right. Tell people to buy it. I don’t need to pick up the phone. I don’t need to like do a launch. I already have a huge following. If I write a book, they’ll just buy it. And we’ve literally heard people tell us that. And you know what? Nobody bought the book.
CJ (07:24):
Right? Yeah. We’ll sit on a black, in a black hole on Amazon, or wherever it is, , right. Where books are sold. So that’s exactly right.
AJV (07:33):
And so sometimes it’s not always about how big is the audience, it’s mm-hmm . How engaged and how Target is targeted, is the audience. ’cause We’ve seen the exact same thing happen mm-hmm . So I would love to know so through this process, what would you say out of all of the things that you’ve been doing during this launch season what would you say for you has been, like, for everyone listening again, who’s thinking about like, okay, well I want to do that one day. Like, what would you say here, here’s what you need to know if you want to write and launch a bestselling book. Like, what would you tell that person listening today?
CJ (08:09):
Get in front of targeted audiences. And you’re, before you even pick up the pin, know who your audience is, know who you’re writing to, and then those are the people that will, you’ll want to get in front of, to start talking about your book months before the launch and months after the launch. So the, those, those specific people, like if you have a following on Facebook or Instagram, a lot of those people might be your friends now. Like, let’s use me, for example, I have lot of friends and they follow me on my socials and they wanna hear what my kids are up to and this type of thing. They don’t all wanna hear about my book, and this book might not be for them. So I, it was the, the most helpful thing was getting help, getting in front of the people who want and need this.
CJ (09:00):
And then also not getting tripped up in the numbers, just staying focused on impact. You are a, a steward of your message. If God put it on your heart to write a book, especially if it’s a vulnerable book that was uncomfortable to write, then you, then your mission is to steward that message after launch for the rest of your life, really. And so if God put it on your heart, he’s going to help you do that. So the people will, the people that need to hear the message will show up. The reason for wanting to make bestseller lists though isn’t fame or numbers. It is the impact, right. It is being a steward of your message. And if it does make lists, your message, you’ll being a better steward of your message because it’s, it’s going to reach more people.
AJV (09:51):
Mm. I love that. I think that’s such a great clarifying distinction of hitting a bestseller list is not for ego or vanity or any of that. It’s, it’s, it’s a sign that you are doing what you are supposed to do and reaching the people that you wrote it for. Mm-Hmm .
CJ (10:09):
Exactly.
AJV (10:10):
That’s really, really good. I would be, I would be so curious to go, so you said you’ve had some luck with pr,
CJ (10:17):
Right?
AJV (10:17):
Mm-Hmm . And have, we have a variety of experiences on both sides of the corn. Right? Right. But you know, our, we, you know, our opinion, and for those of you listening, so we have a love hate relationship with pr, right? Yeah. Because sometimes it moves the needle and a lot of times it doesn’t. Right. But when it does, what, well, it’s a great success story. Mm-Hmm . So I would love to hear from you, as I’m sure everyone else is, is like, well, is it worth the money? Where should you put the money? So on the PR scheme, what’s been working?
CJ (10:45):
So what’s, well, I, I’m a lucky one. My daughter, she’s 25, she runs a pr, an LA based PR company. She runs the UK division in London. So I had the advantage of one, the publisher, you guys sent me a, like a list of maybe 15 vetted PR places that they know love and work with. So that’s great. Have a rep get it from somebody you trust in anything, in anything to do with the publishing world. Trust is a big thing, right? People are out to make money on your dream. So no, these hybrid publishers, you know, you wanna have a reputable vetted people that you’re working with. So we, my daughter helped me take those, say 15 PR companies and reach out to the top five that, that I thought were really in line with my mission. So of the book like that. So, so not my mission as a coach, not my mission as a person, the mission of the book. And so those people I reached out to, and then, you know, there was one, I just had a gut feeling that stood out above them all. And, and I, it, it was a really good match. She’s been wonderful. And so the audiences I’m getting in front of are very in line with the mission of the book.
AJV (12:07):
So I think this is a great question because I think a lot of people hear about pr, but they don’t really know what it means. Mm-Hmm . So can you like, and not everyone gets to have a daughter in the industry, right?
CJ (12:18):
Exactly. Right. That’s why I’m trying to like, teach what I know from her.
AJV (12:23):
But I think it’s really like, so like for those who are listening, it’s like, okay, great, but what did they do for you? Like, give us some insights.
CJ (12:29):
Mm-Hmm . Right? So there’s digital, like somebody could come and they could do take over your Instagram page, for example. They could do your newsletter so that mine doesn’t do that. So know, you know, know those questions to ask, are you gonna be help me digitally? What are you helping me? And then there’s, are you helping me get on podcasts, TV shows, writing news article. For example, mine were, were really FI was on a TV show this morning, but she’s helping me with mostly podcasts because, and then also know the trend. It needs to be what the trends change every six months. So it has to be what’s helping people make bestseller lists that month. Mm-Hmm . And then she had an idea to get me in front of, because I love writing to get me in front of people that would run articles that I write.
CJ (13:21):
So I’m writing some articles for different publications, and then you get to talk about the book and it tells you where to buy the book. So that’s all good. So that’s what this, but not all PR companies are gonna do that exact thing. Some are just more tv. Some are just virtual things. Some are more social media. Some do all of it. Some do a lot of in-person events. One of the ones I interviewed is here in LA and was going to get me in front. That was like my, I was trying to decide between this one and the other one. They were gonna get me in front of a lot of in my community in la a lot of like book signings or the, at the local bookstore, that type of thing, which is also really good. So that was, it was a tough decision because they’re all good. So there’s not one size fits all for sure. Like anything.
AJV (14:16):
Yeah. Well, I love that. ’cause I think what I hear you saying, it’s like, like with anything, before you go searching out a PR firm or like with anything else that you’re gonna spend money on, do your research and know what are you actually trying to get out of this mm-hmm . And I think when a lot of people say, oh, well I’ve hired pr, it doesn’t work. It’s like, did it not work? Or were you just trying to like, throw mud against the wall and see what sticks? And I love that there’s like a, a very targeted approach. It’s like, no, are you trying to get in front of audiences? Is this podcast, is it tv, is it digital? Is it book signings? And again, with anything without a clear strategy, anything is likely not to work,
CJ (14:55):
Right? And like as a coach, we’re always very hyper-focused on the outcome. So what have a crystal clear outcome. So I came to the these inter these vetting these people with the outcome. The outcome for me was to make a bestseller list, right? Like I said, for the reasons I said. So somebody’s outcome might be to get well known or famous. Those are two different outcomes. So know your outcome before you start looking for who to work with.
AJV (15:23):
Yeah. And so I know that you did this too, looking for publishers, so mm-hmm . Same thing with pr. So what were you looking for when you decided to go on a publishing hunt? Because the first time you did this, it was a self-publisher mm-hmm . And I think, again, everyone who’s listening very high level, right? You have self-publishing, which is basically, you are paying for it, right? But you’re also mm-hmm . You’re doing the editing, you’re picking out all the artwork. It’s the cheapest way to get a book out there. But you’re doing all the work, right? You’re the writer, you’re the editor, you’re the creative , you’re all the things. Then there’s hybrid where it’s like you pay for it upfront. But you have a partner on the back end who’s gonna take care of the editorial and the cover designs and the printing and the publishing and the distribution. And then you’ve got traditional publishing, which is typically they pay you upfront, but then they take all your money on the backend, right? So I think
CJ (16:17):
It’s, well, and they take the rights to your book
AJV (16:18):
And they own it, right? Mm-Hmm. And I think mm-hmm. For people who are going, well, if you listen to that, you just have to like, pick up the nuance of the creator at some point is always paying for it.
CJ (16:29):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (16:29):
. Right? Right. There is, there is an investment on behalf of the Craig creator. So you’re gonna pay for it upfront and own it, which is our preference, or you’re going to get paid for it upfront, and they’re gonna take all the money on the back end and you don’t own it. And so That’s right. So I think it’s, it’s when people think, well, oh, it’s better to have an advance. It’s like, well, is it it depends on your goals, like with anything. So you did self-publishing the first time mm-hmm . You decided hybrid publishing the second time mm-hmm . What was a part of that choice? What was a part of that decision?
CJ (17:02):
Right. So a few distinctions. One I’ll say even traditional publishing, you’re gonna spend money because you’re gonna have an editor help you make it look fantastic before you send the proposal in. So there’s always an investment on the author’s part. Especially with the, the first one to three books, let’s say. And, and technically hybrid publishing is self-publishing. We have, you’re, you’re technically called an indie author, like when I go into my books in book contests and stuff, because I’ve done hybrid the second time in self, the first time. They’re both in the self-publishing category as opposed to traditional publishing. So the greatest thing is you get to keep your rights. Now self-publishing can be done really well. Like I did self-publishing. The first time I hired a developmental editor, she helped me hire the copy editor, and I hired a cover designer and interior designer.
CJ (18:04):
And there’s websites in places that can help you. And I, it, I will just say this, all of me wanted to do hybrid because I didn’t want to be the one out there hiring these people. I couldn’t trust anybody. Mm. People need to know there’s not, every hybrid publisher is trustworthy, right? There’s Vanity Pub publishers, some of them will even take the rights if you can believe it and, and take a lot of royalties too. And so that is why I kept coming back to the self-publishing with the first one. And then when I met brand builders, I thought, okay, well I’m working with them. I already know and trust them. So that took care of the trust part. And then I heard you all were having a mission driven press, and I just thought, well, let’s get . Let’s get it going. We need it now. And so that was the biggest thing for me, was finding someone I could trust. And this has been so much more fun the second time because, because you all came with this really professional team of people that’s been doing this for years, that have the developmental editor, the copy editor, the cover designer, the interior designer, and then even the people helping with marketing and audiobook and all the other things. So it really is a one stop shop. So if people can find someone they trust, hybrid’s a really wonderful way to do it.
AJV (19:39):
Yeah. And I, I, I think that’s such an important conversation on the trust part, because I think it’s all important at, at the end of the day, what’s most important in my opinion, is like the creator gets to keep what they create. Mm-Hmm . And that is a huge, like, you’re trusting someone else with your intellectual property. And it’s not only that, it’s like what you said, it’s like, Hey, this is a message that wasn’t meant just for me. It was meant for me to put on the pages of books and get it out into the world. And you’re trusting in, you know, the validity of, Hey, are you, are you gonna do what you say you’re gonna do? Do you believe in this message? Are you gonna help me get it out there? And it’s, I tell people, it’s like when you know that you’re supposed to write a book is when you go, like, it is not about anything else other than getting this message to the hands of other people.
AJV (20:28):
And that is a big trust jump. Mm-Hmm . I mean, that is a huge partnership endeavor of going, I’m entrusting this thing that I feel called to and I’m trusting you to help me do it. So I I love that you said that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone else talk about that when selecting, it’s been more of the logistics and details of the partnership and arrangement, but it’s like, no, trust is a big deal because you’re gonna spend years of your life on this between the ideation and the writing and the publishing and the selling and the marketing and the talking mm-hmm . About it forever and ever and ever. Like, this is a large part of your life. It better be a trusted partnership.
CJ (21:06):
That’s right. And it’s a really vulnerable process. Right. There’s I don’t get hit with a ton of rejection and, and criticism. It is vulnerable though. So you wanna be around people that, that make your nervous system calm. Mm-Hmm . You know, that you wanna be around people that, you know, have your back. Right. And so there are some, you know, like your team is fantastic. There’s some other teams, though I know a lot of other authors where, you know, it’s yucky. There’s, there’s lawsuits people feel like they were taken advantage of. So I just think those feelings on top of all the work that you need to do to launch a book, I just don’t see that helping at all to have that contradictory feelings when it’s already hard enough to be vulnerable and get a book out into the world.
AJV (22:00):
You know? I love too that you brought this up because I have also never heard anyone else bring up this part of, Hey, don’t forget, like, this is also an emotional ride for the author . Yes. There are some vulnerability factors here of I, I, I remember maybe it was like a year ago, ’cause at Mission-Driven Press, I, I still am the one who approves all the books that we decide to publish. Not every book is a fit for us. So I still do a content review of all the books that are being submitted. And I just remember someone saying, it’s like, well, before I submit the book, like, are y’all gonna like critique it ? And it was like one of those like very interesting things. And I’m like, oh my goodness, there I, you, you forget that this is someone’s life’s work.
AJV (22:47):
Mm-Hmm . Right? Mm-Hmm . And I was like, well, I was like, well, no, I won’t critique it. I’ll just tell you if it’s a fit for what we do or not, but not looking for a critique unless you, you want us to critique it. And they’re like, no, no, no, no, no. Right. And I think it’s a really, it is vulnerable and it’s like you’re, especially through the editing process mm-hmm . Rory and I just finished our manuscript a few weeks ago and it’s been in content development. Yes. Yay is right. Yeah. Yay is right. We are, yes. Yay. But it was interesting ’cause both of us were waiting on the content development edits to come back and you know, it is vulnerable to go through all the comments of like, well, this is a little wordy here, and I wouldn’t use this word there and I know what you’re getting at, but I don’t think it’s gonna hit the reader. Right. And it’s like, what do you mean? Like says who says who? It won’t hit the reader, you know, and it is vulnerable and you have to put your ego aside and go mm-hmm . This is not about me. Mm-Hmm . Or this is not about me. This is not about what I wanna say. It’s about what they need to hear.
CJ (23:46):
Right. That’s right.
AJV (23:48):
But I think that’s a good thing of like, the writing process is vulnerable, the editing process is vulnerable, the sales processes too. And it’s like, right there is a lot of people who are like, yeah, I love what you’re doing. Not gonna buy any. It’s like, great, thanks. Great welcome. You know, welcome to to business and to sales. Mm-Hmm . And I think that’s probably the underlying tone that it’s important for everyone to, to hear. Like, this is like a business.
CJ (24:15):
It really is. I’m so fortunate I have my husband around me because he’s so great at business and he works from home, so he, you know, and he sees me working from home. So he’s been a constant sounding board for me to keep going. Don’t take it personally, to really believe in the impact and the message and have, have confidence selling, right? Yeah. So,
AJV (24:42):
Yeah. I mean, I think that’s a huge thing for everyone to realize. Mm-Hmm. It’s like launching a book is like launching a business.
CJ (24:47):
Yes.
AJV (24:48):
Genuinely speaking. Now let’s talk about the book for a second. ’cause Okay. I wanna make sure that as we talk about the process of writing and, you know, publishing and launching a book, but you have a book coming out mm-hmm . You have a book coming out in March. So we are just
CJ (25:03):
February, February
AJV (25:04):
18. Oh, is it February? February 18th? Yes. Okay. Yes. So we’re just a few weeks away. Mm-Hmm . And so let’s talk a little bit about what is, what is Grace Yourself about
CJ (25:14):
Grace Yourself, the subtitles, how to show Up for the Sober Life You Want. And I love the subtitle. So the subtitle of my first book is The First Book’s, living All In How to Show Up for the Life You Want. And I love Show up and for the Life you want because in coaching, we need to know what we want, right? That’s always my first question. What do you want? And we need to show up for the strategy to get what we want. Showing up iss easy when it’s easy, and we need to show up when it’s not easy. So for this book particularly, because it does share my story of sobriety to me showing up is for life is the opposite of numbing out when things get uncomfortable or checking out, and we can check out or numb in small ways and big ways.
CJ (26:06):
And it doesn’t need to be alcohol. It can be all kinds of things. We all can think of ways. I mean, it could even be biting our nails, right? There’s just things that we do to check out or not show up. And I’m writing this to let people know, here’s my story, but I’m using this story to couple it with my coaching tools to show you, you don’t need to be afraid. You can show up for life. And here’s all these tools to help you do that. So someone doesn’t need to be even in an act of addiction, and it doesn’t even need to be alcohol for this book to be beneficial, because you’re gonna take whatever that thing is, and these tools will help, they’ll help take the shame off, get it out of the darkness. Let let you know you’re not alone. Let you know there’s millions of people struggling with the same thing. We’re not unique. We don’t, you know, we’re not special. We are special just like everybody else. . That’s right. Right. And so our addictions and hangups and things are not, they’re not unique. And so we do need to share stories and be in community. And it’s a very practical book that walks people through this hold your hand and says, here are the questions that ask yourself to get unstuck.
AJV (27:24):
I love that. What, what does the title Grace Yourself, like, where did that come from?
CJ (27:32):
So I love this title. The, to me, since I am a Person of Faith, to me it’s God’s grace, and that’s unmerited favor. And I explain in the book how, to me, what I’ve seen with people that fall into negative patterns and addictions. A lot of us have control issues. We, because in essence, we’re controlling our state. We’re, we’re, we’re looking to control the way we feel or control not feeling the way we don’t wanna feel. And we do that, like I said, in with lots of different ways. And so grace, since grace from God is unmerited favor, it means I don’t get to control whether I receive it or not. And so as a person, as a young woman who struggled with perfectionism and rigid thinking, and really, you know, high achiever, I have to control everything. I did not understand grace as a young person because I thought I had to control everything I earned.
CJ (28:36):
I’ll tell you what I’m worth. I’ll tell you if I deserve it or not. The concept that something’s free, even if I don’t deserve it, just didn’t compute with me. So I go through that in the book and, and what I really want people to know is they’re worthy no matter what, you’re worthy and you get grace, even though we don’t deserve it. Mm-Hmm . You’re worthy. If you’re addicted, you’re wor you don’t have to get clean to take a bath. You’re already valuable and worthy. Right. So we can start from wherever we are right now. And that is where the Grace yourself came from, is understanding that unmerited favor and not, and letting go of needing to be in con in control of our own worth.
AJV (29:23):
Mm. I love that. And I think it’s so applicable too to the story of sobriety. Mm-Hmm . I’ve had so many people share that, you know, hey, it’s like you know, I started with, Hey, I’m just gonna do a week mm-hmm . And then they were like, well, maybe I can do a month and if I don’t make it though, you know, and it was so interesting. It’s like there is a little grace of, it’s like, it’s okay to fall off and it’s okay to get back on mm-hmm . But I feel like there’s a, a growing trend mm-hmm . Of people who are sober, curious and sobriety. And I, as you know, I live in Nashville, Tennessee, and I’d say like one of the biggest trends in Nashville right now are zero proof bars. Mm-Hmm . There’s like a zero proof I don’t even know what you call it. It’s not a liquor store, but it’s a zero proof liquor store. There’s
CJ (30:11):
All these, right. We have the mm-hmm
AJV (30:12):
. Yeah. But it’s like their entire stores of is, everything is zero proof. There’s all these new bars and every menu now has some sort of zero proof wine or, or drink or whatever. And it wasn’t that way even a year ago.
CJ (30:27):
No.
AJV (30:27):
Like, it, this is a, a very big growing trend. And I’m just one, so this book is like right on par with a lot of the things mm-hmm . That people are talking about. And I’ve, I have a lot of friends who are sober, have been sober. My husband Rory, he’s sober eight years. I’m sober almost two years. Yay. And I, I don’t know if you have noticed this, ’cause you walk in this life as well. Like, what have you noticed in terms of why now? Like, is is it not just now or is it just because people are on social media talking about it now, but there seems to be more of a growing public, like no, like, we’re accommodating this, like we’re promoting this that didn’t exist before. Why do you think that is?
CJ (31:12):
Well, I think it’s like cigarettes, right? We all . If we, if we remember back then, we all used to smoke. And then over time the knowledge, right? We became educated that these were killing us. And there’s a lot of content out there right now that alcohol is a toxic poison. And now we have the facts where, remember they used to say a red wine, a cup of red wine a day is good for your health. Yeah. Well, so is grape juice and eating blueberries because it has antioxidants, right? So it’s misinformation. So I think that’s part of it. It is interesting to me though, because I got sober out of necessity in 2007 and, and I tell this story in the book where it, we didn’t have sober curious. We didn’t have mocktails. No, you were weird. If you didn’t drink , it was, it was no like, and you were alcoholic.
CJ (32:09):
I do identify as an alcoholic. I do go into detail in that, in the book and explain that there’s no la regarding labels use what label works for you. It energizes me because to me it was a solution to something that I was trying to quit on my own. Like, I walked into a meeting, heard, there’s this thing called alcoholism, and there’s all these beautiful women in the meeting that just beautiful humans that like, yeah, we’re alcoholic too, and there’s a solution and it’s not your fault. It’s like an allergy and you never have to have another drink again. That for me, took all the shame off my shoulders. It changed the narrative from I’m a monster because I can’t stop drinking to, I’m worthy of sobriety and recovery because I can’t stop drinking. So it, it’s so much easier now for people. I do think, I do touch on this in the book.
CJ (33:05):
I think that it’s important if you’re like me, where you kind of re because alcohol is a progressive condition, which means the more you drink, you don’t, you don’t build up a tolerance and get better at it. You get worse at it. And if you quit drinking for a certain amount of years and then pick it up again, you’re going to be worse off than when you started Just age. Does that, so it is, that’s a medical fact. It’s a progressive condition. So some people we, like we say, in recovery, you can’t you’ve been pickled, so you can’t go back to being a cucumber. Hmm. Even if you quit drinking 30 years and then decide to try it again, you can’t go back to being a cucumber. So the book is really for people like me who got pickled. Mm-Hmm. And we can’t go back.
CJ (33:53):
And we do have a stigma. Like it really messed with us. It messed with our self-worth. We dealt with shame and guilt. And I am all for all for any recovery movement. I love that people are sober curious that we have mocktails, that people are going alcohol free. And for these people, I, a lot of my friends and clients are doing this. And it’s wonderful. I don’t think those people all need a support community or recovery community, if that makes sense. People like me, and there’s a chapter or section in the book called Alcoholic Like Me. We, we have to be in community because the world is changing, but it still is the way it is. And so we have to be sharing stories. We can’t do it alone. And we need to stay in community. So we don’t, our forgetter doesn’t forget and start thinking that we are like these other people that can just quit for health reasons.
CJ (34:48):
Some of us just can’t. And so do make that distinction in the book. And I also say in the book, look, don’t, don’t diss anybody. If they wanna call themselves an alcoholic, if they wanna go to AA or don’t wanna go to aa, let’s not get hung up on these things. Recovery, sobriety, health, it’s all a win. We all have, we’d have different churches for people. We have different therapists for people. Mm-Hmm . We have different recovery groups for people and different mocktails for people. Because there’s no one size fits all. So we all just need to be kind and not dis the language or get hung up on the, the logos or you know, of it all. I love that. Yeah.
AJV (35:32):
I think that’s really important. ’cause I think that that’s a great distinction. It’s some people do it for health reasons, some people do it. Because it’s a necessity, right? It’s a lifesaving choice. They have to make, there’s a lot of different reasons why people are making these choices. For the person who’s out there, who’s going, what does it even mean to be sober? Curious? Like what, what, what is the first step? What would you say?
CJ (36:00):
I think it’s probably yeah, they starting to ask yourself those questions. Could I live without this thing in my life? And it might not be alcohol. Like I said, it could be something else that’s a stronghold. And so I think that the important thing to ask is really get leverage on yourself and ask and write it down, what is the cost of giving this thing up? And be honest about it. Because there will be a cost, it will require some grit. It will require the neuroplasticity in your brain to change. It will require, you know, when you pick up a new workout routine, it’s gonna require going to the gym and doing that. We don’t just get biceps one time at the gym, so it’s gonna, there’s gonna be some cost, unfortunately. Unfortunately. I know. So be honest with yourself about that and write down what, what is the cost of removing this thing from my life?
CJ (36:53):
And then write down what is the cost of not removing it from my life? And really be honest and look at that. And that’s how you get leverage on yourself. And so if the cost of not removing it is greater, then you’re gonna need to find some grit, read some self-help books like mine and then, and get in community. Right. But I’ll say if someone’s trying to do this at dry January, I really want people to take the shame off of it. If they start my friend across the street, oh, I did dry January and I already messed up. Well, we don’t need, you didn’t mess up. You’re just, it’s all there. It’s, it’s not a straight line. Mm-Hmm . Right. It’s two steps forward, three steps back some days. So just grace yourself, keep moving forward, but keep asking those questions to make it sustainable.
AJV (37:46):
Why do, that’s a great point. So why, why do you think that for the person who, who does resonate with this, and they go, well, I’m, I’m curious. And then some, like, I know I need to make a change. I know that there, I do have a stronghold in my life and I need to get rid of it. Why is it that’s that we, some people can just be like, cold Turkey, I quit. I’m, I’m never doing it again. And there’s others of us who it’s like, man, it’s like, well, I did fall off. Mm-Hmm . And again and again. Like what, what trends have you seen both in your coaching practice and in your own personal life? It’s like, what causes the fall off?
CJ (38:25):
Hmm. Oh, well we’re human really. I mean, and the reason for falling off is ’cause it’s hard. Mm-Hmm . It’s hard to give something up. That’s a pattern. Especially if it’s a really ingrained pattern and something you’ve been doing for years. So, you know, there’s a chapter in the book, choose your Heart. It’s hard to get sober. Is it gonna be harder to not get sober is the question. And so you wanna choose. It’s, and you can use that, you know, I was saying to a parent the other day, it’s hard say to your kid, yeah, it’s hard to put clothes on to go to church. ’cause Kids don’t wanna get dressed sometimes. Right. It’s harder to go to church naked. .
AJV (39:05):
.
CJ (39:06):
Right. There’s always a cost. So so just, yeah, I think it’s because it’s hard. And so I think, and that’s what we talk about in recovery is hitting bottom. And I think people, it’s, I’ve heard so many stories over the last 18 years. Everybody’s, when you say enough is enough is looks different for everybody. Mm-Hmm . So it doesn’t need to look like the next person’s. You don’t need to get thrown in jail or get a DUI or any of those things. It can be enough is enough. And you, you know, in your gut, the cost is gonna be greater than not giving it up. Mm-Hmm . And so that would qualify as a bottom. And that’s the time to find people to help you. Because right now, that’s the beautiful thing. We have so many communities online and in person that that can help and that are supportive and that people are joined together with a common goal of being sober.
AJV (40:06):
Well, I love that honesty and that it’s like, why do people follow up? ’cause It’s hard , right? It’s hard the end. Right. It’s hard. And I think that’s a really honest, powerful, you know, truth. It’s like, yeah, it’s hard, but choose your hard. It’s, it’s hard either way. It’s just which harder are you gonna pick? Now we, we you mentioned dry January that’s when we’re recording this. And so can you give us like two or three quick tips on how can you, if, if you’re listening to this going, yep, I did dry January, and if you haven’t, it’s never too late to start. Doesn’t even matter if it’s the last day of month. But like, what are some quick tips to carry you know, sober curious lifestyle past this dry January? Like how can you keep it going?
CJ (40:52):
Right. Well start with those questions I just talked about and ask what, write it down too. What, what did January give me? If you made it all the way through January dry, get honest about that and write it down. What did it cost and what did it give me? My guess is if alcohol is a stronghold in your life, that you’re gonna have more benefits that you got out of it. But write it down so you know. Right. And then ask yourself, well, why wouldn’t I wanna carry this on to February? Why wouldn’t I wanna keep doing it? And and knowing that any habit we, the best way to approach it is one day at a time. And so we say that in recovery all the time. And we don’t, we, if we come in and think, I need to be sober like the next guy for the next 20 years, we’ll we’ll panic and run out of the room because who can sink like that? So you just have to be sober right now for today. And maybe it’s not one day at a time, maybe it’s one minute at a time. And so just keep doing that and then do it the next minute and the next minute. .
AJV (41:59):
Yeah. I think it’s good. It’s like we used to tease, it’s, it’s no different than getting healthy or losing weight. It’s like if you told someone you’re only going to get to eat fo you know, foliage for the rest of your life, people would be like, I’m never doing this. But if you can just be, just focus on eating salad today. Just get a salad for lunch. Just get a salad for dinner and wake up and just do the same thing. It’s like, it’s the difference of like the magnitude of, wait, am I never gonna get to have a cookie again? What do you mean Versus Nope, just pick a salad today. Pick a salad at the meal that you’re at. And it’s, it’s, it’s a lot like that is what I hear you saying. It’s like, just make the choice in the moment and then in the next moment and then in the next moment.
AJV (42:40):
And I think this is a, a great conversation. I I wanted you to have a time to talk about the book. ’cause I, one of the reasons that we wanted to partner with you in publishing the book is because Rory and I personally resonate with the message of both of us would not identify as someone who had a, a problem with alcohol, but we both identify that it, that it had a strong hold and the way that we were living our daily life both of us were fortunate enough to be able to go, we’re just not doing this anymore. Like, we’re done. But both of us recognized a pattern that we were no longer comfortable with. And it’s like we, yeah, I can only speak for myself, but you know, for those of you who are listening of going like, well, I don’t, I don’t really know if that’s me.
AJV (43:24):
It’s like, I would maybe have a glass of wine every couple of days, but here, here was the pattern that I noticed. I would always default to a glass of wine on a hard day. And I would also default to a glass of wine on a good day. So if it was a really good day, I wanted to celebrate glass of wine. Mm-Hmm . If it was a really, really hard day, I wanted a, a glass of wine to decompress. Right. What I wasn’t doing is I wasn’t decompressing with God. I wasn’t decompressing with my husband. I wasn’t even talking about it. It was like, Nope, I just wanna go grab his glass of wine and go take a bath. Mm-Hmm . And I realized I was like living in this this isolated environment where it’s like, like I went to the wine and never to the point of ever getting drunk, but it was like, man, this, this is not a healthy default for me anymore.
AJV (44:19):
It is, it is a negative trend that I can see in my life where as I started giving it up, I noticed it’s like, oh my gosh, they serve mimosas at breakfast, margaritas at lunch, you know, aifs for pre dinner. I was like, oh my gosh, it’s everywhere. And it’s, it was never so recognizable of like, oh man, the access, the accessibility is right. What had created some of the problem of it was there when you celebrate, it’s there and it’s a hard day. It’s there at the sporting event. It’s there, it’s at the adults’ table, at the kids’ party. And it was like, it wasn’t until I just said I can’t have it. It’s a hard no. Right. that I could actually even set limits for myself.
CJ (45:00):
Right? Yes. I mean, happy, sad matter, glad that’s how we drank. That’s, that’s a saying too. You know, it it, when you start thinking of it as, ’cause you had mentioned it’s hard to give it up, right? And when we start changing our language to what am I gonna gain? Like, we’re gaining all this other stuff, we’re gaining sobriety, and yes, we’re giving something up, but like you just said, it’s, if we think of it that we’re giving something up, we’ll, even subconsciously, we’ll feel sorry for ourselves. We’ll have a little pity party and then that’s really unfair to us because you’re right, it’s everywhere. It’s at the kids’ birthday party, it’s at breakfast. And if we have that mindset, it makes us feel like we’re not disciplined because we can’t partake or like we really don’t wanna have it, but it’s, we feel like we should almost, because it’s everywhere, which is the good news why it’s starting to not be everywhere. Right. But we, we wanna flip that mindset to, yeah, maybe I’m gonna miss out for 20 minutes or an hour or that first hit feeling, but what I’m gaining is so much more and really focus on what we’re gaining not on what is not on what we’re giving up.
AJV (46:19):
Yeah. I love that. I can’t repeat this enough. It’s like, it’s gonna be hard either way. Choose your heart. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love that. Y’all I could talk to Chris about this for much longer, but our time is up and I want you guys to know where you can go pick up a copy of this book. So if you go to grace yourself book.com, you can get your pre-ordered copy right now. At the time of the release, there’s just a few weeks left, but very soon, February 18th, you can get your real copy in the mail immediately. Chris, what would you tell to the person who’s like, yep, I’m going to pick up your book. What, what would you wanna tell them and why they need to go do that?
CJ (47:04):
Well, first thank you and yeah, it, it’s, you are going to gain tools for that will just make you happier, really. Right. It, like I said, it’s, it’s really a book about what you’re gaining not on how to give up one thing. You know, you’re giving up one thing to gain everything and if you, you know, on the flip side, you could lose everything to hang onto that one thing and that’s not what we want. So this book will really reframe your mind to all the way, all the things that you’re gaining and all the things that you want for your life.
AJV (47:38):
I love that. Again, y’all go check it out, grace yourself book.com, coming to bookstores everywhere, February 18th. Get your copy now. Chris, thank you so much. It was so awesome to have you on. And everyone else who’s listening, stick around the recap episode will be coming up next. We’ll see you next time on the influential Personal brand.
CJ (48:00):
Thank you.

Ep 557: Create an Environment You Thrive In | Dr. Cody Golman Episode Recap

AJV (00:00):
Here are a few things that I just pulled out that were phenomenally important to me that just hit me in a certain way, so hopefully they hit you the same way. So the first thing is we started the whole conversation of just remember that you have a choice. And I think that’s just a good reminder for anyone, no matter where you are in life, it’s, you have a choice of how you feel. You have a choice of your attitude. You have a choice of whether or not you’re happy today or you’re stressed today. And I’m not saying that we don’t have days where we’re stressed and overwhelmed. I have those days often, but those are also choices I make. And it’s, I think it, the difference is am I choosing to focus on the things that aren’t going well? Or am I choosing to focus on the things that are, and it’s not that you ignore the things that aren’t they need fixing, but it’s choosing to put your, your, your hope and your aspirations in the things that are working and not get bogged down by the things that aren’t.
AJV (00:59):
It’s, are you choosing little things that make you feel good versus choosing things that don’t make you feel good? I know for me it’s like, am I choosing to go on a walk or am I choosing a glass of wine? I need to choose a to go on a walk, right? And it’s like, you have a choice. You have a choice about are you gonna be disciplined and do the things you know you’re supposed to do, or are you not? Are you going to do it? Even if you think it doesn’t make a difference, even though it does or not. It’s like you have a choice and all the things, you have a choice. And I think that is just a good place, a good foundation to start for the rest of this conversation is we all have choices to make. How we spend our time, our attitudes, how we feel, how we treat people.
AJV (01:46):
Those are choices that we get to make. And we do have influence and control over those things so you have a choice. So that was the first thing I think that was really good. Second thing is similar to that is you have a choice in your environment. Now, sometimes we are temporarily stuck in an environment, but that doesn’t mean we can’t create counter environment. So maybe you are temporarily in a, a job per se that isn’t healthy for you and you can’t just up and leave. You have bills to pay, you have a family to take care of. You have responsibilities, but there can be other environments that you surround yourself with IE community outside of work that help counter negative environments. So environment, your environment is a really important part of your ability to make progress. And I love what Lori said, and I’m totally just stealing this right outta her mouth.
AJV (02:39):
Your environment has a mental, emotional and physical impact on you. And if you are not consciously making decisions, choices to improve your environment, then your mental, emotional and physical wellbeing will suffer. So let’s all just take a a second, take a step back and go, what environments am I in that are healthy and good and, you know, moving me in the right direction? And what environments may I be in that are not those things? And how do I have more of the good and, and less of the not so good? Right? And I think, again, it’s like environments can be places. They can be groups of people, they can be communities, they can be all different sorts of things. But I know for me, and I love what she said when she talks about her childhood and an environment she was used to seeing versus a new environment when she went to go stay with a family a a a set of friends.
AJV (03:38):
And she was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What is this? I, I didn’t even know this existed. If we don’t create new environments, then we convince ourselves that things are just the way that they are. We don’t even know things are possible ’cause we’ve never seen them be possible for anyone in our environment. So it’s, I think it’s just so incredibly important to have different and varying environments so that you see new patterns and new habits and new ways of living or thinking or acting or doing that create new possibilities for you. I don’t remember who said this first, but it’s like, you know, it’s like you are who you hang out with. Well, I think that’s probably true for most of us. It’s like we are the, you know, culmination of where we spend our time, energy, thinking resources, right? That begins to create who we are.
AJV (04:27):
So what environments are you in and what environments do you need to be in? I love this quote. This is so good. And she said that your environments are often stronger than your willpower. So if you know that you have a temptation to do things that you don’t want to do, then remove yourself from those environments, right? If you’re trying to eat healthy, then do not put yourself in environments where it’s, you know, chips and dips and nachos and hamburgers and hot dogs, right? Remove yourself from those environments. If you hang out with a group of people who aren’t healthy and you’re trying to be healthy, remove yourself from those sorts of temptations, not from the people, from the environments, right? See them on a hike, see them doing something else. But you’ve got to know that if you’ve got struggles in the willpower discipline arena, then you’ve got to change the environment.
AJV (05:24):
So, so good. Oh my gosh, this isn’t like brand new, but such a new fresh context of looking at this really does hit it in a different way. And just remembering, it’s like your environment is often stronger than your willpower. So good. Love this. Okay, moving right along here. This next one is like same kind of quote where I’m like, this should just be all over lord’s social media. I don’t know why this isn’t everywhere she goes, but there is always a gift in what you just did. And if you have ever said to yourself, I just wasted so much time, or I just wasted so much money, or what a bunch of waste of time, resources, emotions, I would just encourage you to rephrase that and go, you wasted nothing. You learned a ton, a ton about what you should do and what you shouldn’t do, what you want and what you don’t want.
AJV (06:25):
But there is a gift in what you just did. And a lot of times that gift comes in experience and it comes in knowledge, and it come, it comes in clarification. But there isn’t a, there is a gift in what you just did, whether it was a success or it was a temporary failure, whether it worked out or it didn’t. There was a gift in what you just did. You just have to make the choice to look for it. And that is so powerful because often we look at things that don’t work out as failures, and we look at failures as a waste of time. And I’m currently reading a book right now called, called to Create by Jordan Rayner. And in this book he talks about something in Silicon Valley where they talk about the fail faster rule. And that’s just my syn my, my synopsis of what he’s talking about.
AJV (07:19):
I don’t know if that’s really what he said in the book, but this is how I remember it anyways. But the fail, the fail faster rule is like in Silicon Valley, it’s like, if your startup fails fast, that means that you’re learning just as fast. So it’s like if you haven’t failed, then you haven’t tried hard enough, risked enough that there hasn’t been something that happened enough. And I think that’s both healthy and potentially not as long as we’re willing to express that. You know, failure does not, failures do not mean we are a failure. That means we did things that didn’t work. Welcome to life, , right? We all fail. That doesn’t mean we are failures, right? And I think this whole idea of fail faster, learn faster, get better faster, those are all part of just the life experience. It’s not, it’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s just a part of the experience.
AJV (08:10):
And so creating different ways of looking at this of like, what are the lessons learned? What are the gifts I received from what I just did? Because nothing was a waste of time. There was something that was received, there was something that was learned. There was something that came out of it that is going to make you a better person, but you gotta make the choice to find it. So just, I thought that was such a good reminder of everything that we do, whether it was a, an investment loss or it was a business loss, a relationship loss. Whereas in the what is the gift and what you just did also in, in the wins, right? There’s clearly gifts in the wins. I think it’s easier for us to find those, but it’s, it’s a mental, a discipline to find the gifts and the things that we don’t consider wins.
AJV (08:58):
But there is always a gift in what you just did, I just thought was so good. Now, tactically speaking there were a few other things that I’m gonna share that I thought were equally as powerful here. So with courses we talked about the concept of less is more. The whole idea of this, it’s like you want to save, like this is what we say at brand builders all the time, is you wanna save the best for first. Because if you give, if you serve up the best first, if you give your audience the best first, they feel accomplished faster, they feel more empowered faster, they feel more educated, more knowledgeable they feel like they can do things right up front. And so you wanna give them as much as you can as early as you can because that shows a very quick return on their investment.
AJV (09:44):
They don’t need to spend six hours and 66 pages to feel like they got their money’s worth. You want ’em to feel like they got their money, their money’s worth in the first hour. So how can you do less is more and help ’em feel accomplished way upfront? Love that. Second thing about courses is just don’t forget that fundamentals never get old. We think we have to create some new twist and make new shiny objects and, you know, talk about a brand new way of doing something. And sometimes people don’t need a brand new way of doing something. They just need to hear it in a new way. They need to hear the solid, basic fundamentals in a way that hits them, right? The whole concept of there’s always a gift in what you just did. You could say that a hundred different ways, but the way that Lori said that hit me, right?
AJV (10:32):
The fact that she said that, you know, your environments often are stronger than your willpower. It’s not like that has never been said before. It’s just never been said that way. And so sometimes it’s not that you’re saying brand new stuff, you’re just saying it away that your audience can relate to in a way that they don’t relate to the way someone else says it. So just don’t forget, like fundamentals don’t get old. Just make sure to share it in your lens and your perspective and provide as much value as possible right up front. Now, when it comes to podcasts, Lori’s podcast now has more than 47 million downloads. So how do you go from a new podcast or a podcast that maybe has a few thousand downloads to millions of downloads? I thought this was really good. Keep it simple. It’s fundamentals, but talk about it everywhere you go.
AJV (11:21):
It’s be consistent. Don’t give up. It takes time. But talk about it everywhere you go. Ask people to share it. Ask people to rate it. Ask people to give reviews on it. But talk about it and then ask people to do what you want them to do. We talked about how it’s like if you never ask, the answer is always no. So you’ve got to ask, remind people, tell people this is how you can help talk about it everywhere you go and tell people what to do. That’s how you grow your podcast and you to do those two things consistently right? Now, last but not least, we also talked about stepping into the world of physical products, right? So that could be anything from t-shirts, shoes to water bottles, wine, food, snacks, nutritional supplements, the list goes on and on and on.
AJV (12:13):
Could be any sort of physical product, but going from an an educational and information product world to a physical product world. And what are some of the things that we need to know and what should we be looking for if we are considering making this transition or adding a physical product line to our business offering? So first, find some help , don’t do it by yourself. Please find someone who has actually, who has actually done what you want to do in the, you know, sector that you want to do it. So if you were trying to launch a nutritional supplements, don’t talk to someone who has only done a clothing line. Actually talk to someone who has done what you want to do. So find some help. This is where you want to hire a coach, find a mentor, join a mastermind, go to a conference, read books, but find some expert help and exactly what it is that you want to do.
AJV (13:08):
That’s the first thing. Second is make sure that you’re just filling a need that you see in the market. Don’t think don’t, don’t create a product as you think there’s a need. Find a need and then create a product to fulfill that need, right? And if you’ve got a trusted audience, you can start by asking them, but fill a need that you already see in the marketplace. ’cause There is there, focus on why your product is different than competing products, right? So focus on what differentiate your products. How are you gonna market it differently? How does it help differently? How does it serve your audience differently? How is it made for your audience specifically? So focus on your differentiator. I loved this one that this was so pa impactful. Avoid any sort of products as your first product that have lots of legal tape, right?
AJV (13:58):
So anything that would require like FDA regulatory issues, anything that, you know, like beauty products, food, beverage nutritional lines, anything that has lots and lots of legal take. What’s gonna happen is most of your investment money or your own money is going to be going to the lawyers versus product development, research and development marketing. Most of it’s actually just gonna go to the pockets of attorneys versus actually helping develop your product. So as your first product entry to market, avoid anything that has lots of legal red tape almost to the end of my list here, focus on one thing. In other words, don’t create a product line that has lots of skews first. So if you’re gonna create a makeup line start with one thing, right? Is it a lip gloss? Then stick to that.
AJV (14:50):
Is it a mascara? Stick to that. Don’t go, here’s an entire makeup on, we’re gonna have this and this and this and this. It’s like, no, start with one thing. So you have centralized focus on what works. You do all of your checks and balances, all your trial and error, all of your market testing with one product. So you get the marketing right, you get the audience right, you get the pricing right? You get the packaging and the shipping and all the things right on one product, and then you expand from there. So start with one sku, one product,and that will save you lots of time, lots of money, and actually help you generate revenue. So y’all, there’s so many things I could talk for another 20 minutes on this. Ubut I’m looking at my timer and my time is up. So,go check out this full interview.
AJV (15:35):
Catch us next time on the influential personal brand. And if this has been helpful to you, please go and like this episode, share this episode, comment on it, leave us a review, rate it. If this is helpful to you and you think it would be helpful to someone else, please share it with them. You get to be the conduit of sharing good information out into the world. So I’m asking for your help. If you like our podcast, the influential personal brand, please like it, share it, leave a review and get it out into the world and share it with a friend. So thank you so much. We’ll see you next time on the influential Personal brand.

Ep 556: Take Back Your Health with Radical Accountability with Dr. Cody Golman

AJV (00:00:02):

All right, everybody. Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is AJ Vaden here, and y’all all right. If you follow me on social at all, then you will know that over the last year I’ve gone through a major health transformation in my life, both physically, mentally, emotional, and I talk about it a lot in the Brave Room community. And I’m so honored, and I’m also so excited to introduce you guys to Dr. Cody Goldman. Because it was his program that I went through. It was him that I worked with. That, and I say this in the humblest possible way. I have never been in a better space in my entire da adult life. I’m in the best physical shape. I am the best version of myself that I have been as a human on this earth not just my adult life.

AJV (00:01:00):

And I credit so much of that to the transformation that happened in Dr. Cody’s program. And so when I say that this is a life changing, life transforming program, I mean it, I also can tell you that and why, and this is why I’m telling you guys this before I introduce Cody. There are some things that we talk about at Brand Builders Group that resonate in some areas. And there’s just some things that are just universal truth. And one of the things that we say a lot at Brand Builders Group is that the best form of marketing in the world is a changed life, right? And the reason that I promote and refer so many people to Dr. Cody is because it changed my life. And if you guys are sitting here wondering how to get more clients and how to grow your business, I would encourage you to stop thinking about that and start thinking about how do I change the lives of the clients that I have?

AJV (00:02:01):

And really, that’s what today’s episode is gonna be about. And we’re gonna talk a lot about the physical side and the health and nutrition side but also the mechanics of how to create a program that can actually be life changing. And that is why I wanted to have Dr. Cody on, not just to talk about his content, which we will, but also talk about the actual structure of how to create a life changing program that can help you grow your business by changing lives. So, with that said, let me also professionally introduce Dr. Cody Goldman. Dr. Cody has been a dedicated healthcare professional for the last 20 years. And uniquely he has a unique avatar of empowering women, age 35 to 55, who struggle with stubborn weight loss that will not go away regardless of how many things you track. And a huge part of what he has created is a hormone reset waste weight loss program that helps women specifically change and better their lives. And so, I am formally inviting or formally introducing Cody to the show. Thank you for accepting my invitation. We’re so glad you’re here.

CG (00:03:14):

Wow, what a, I, I be honest with you, I am I have tears with that introduction because I can feel how much your life has changed. And this is, I was put in this planet to change and inspire and, and help people. So I feel I can feel a mission just hearing that from you. So thank you for those loving words.

AJV (00:03:32):

Well, enjoy those. ’cause I’m gonna use not as friendly words later, so . But this is genuinely such a treat to introduce you to the audience because I have been talking about you a ton and you and the program and, and really the, the structure of how you built this. But before we get into that, I think it’s always important to know is I imagine most of our audience this is their first time being introduced to you. And so I’d love for you just to quickly tell everyone a little bit about where you started and how you got to where you are.

CG (00:04:07):

Yeah, I’ll, I’ll do brief briefly. So I was in the military at, I joined at 17. I was still in high school back in the day you could do that. And I became a tank commander at 19. And these, we were throwing these bullets. The bullets are a hundred pounds a piece, and the bullet hole was about a foot over your head, and you could do three a minute. And over the course of time, I started having problems with my neck and shoulders and went to doctors, went to medical doctors, went through the whole gamut, got medications with, and I started questioning like, why, you know, they really didn’t have a diagnosis, but it got medications. And so it truly led me towards natural healthcare. And I finally went to a chiropractor who said, Hey man, you got a pinched nerve in your neck.

CG (00:04:47):

And I said, that’s, that can’t be true. I’ve been to a neurologist, I’ve been to a cardiologist. And he did one adjustment and I had a numb hand for about three months. I had asthma’s analogies and all kinds of stuff. In, in three seconds, the energy came back into my hand and I could have feeling again. Mm-Hmm. And at that moment, I knew it was universe. It was the God saying, listen, like this is your role in this planet, is to help other people. And so I set off to go into chiropractic school, and one of my thoughts at that time was, how many people have gone through? I’ve gone through, gone to doctors, gave me medications, and never actually found the cause of their problem. And that’s an important part of the story because that is my passion, is helping people truly understand their body, our healthcare system, our medical system, our school system does not teach you about your body.

CG (00:05:37):

And I think that’s like literally what I’m creating now is literally a school for how does our body work. So, so I had a, a healthcare center for 17 years. We saw 325 patients a week. I’ve had everything from asthmas, allergies, aids, sickle cell anemia, breast cancer, digestive cancer. I’ve seen every single one of these things heal multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia. So I won’t go into too much more of that. But, so I learned a lot in that time. And it wasn’t, most of it wasn’t from just physical treatments. I started understanding the, how the mind is wired, how your mind and body are connected. And so I sold IT office, and I, I, I opened up a, a physical product business on Amazon. And over time I wasn’t working with any people. And I got, I started getting like, really antsy. I’m like, I forgot my purpose.

CG (00:06:23):

I’m like, I’m here to work with people. I’m here to ignite and inspire people to their highest potential. That’s it. And so, interesting enough, people started calling me, my patients after I sold the office, they called me and said, Hey, remember that weight loss program you had? I had a weight loss program just because we were attracting people in the office. I was, I, that’s, that’s why we did it. And people started calling me and they said, okay, I’ll figure out how to do this. I don’t have an office anymore. So we, we just figured how to do it virtually, and it worked well. And so that literally is what happened. And with, with the Fast 40, it wasn’t something I was looking to do. Most of the businesses that I’ve created, they’ve been things that have come to me. I didn’t choose to do it. And at this stage of my life I think those, some of the best things that we, that we do, that we think we create are the things that are, are being created for us. So that, that’s, that’s how I got to this point here. So

AJV (00:07:14):

I love that. And, you know, and here’s one of the things that I would, I would say, ’cause I’ve been through the program and everything, it’s, it’s so interesting in such a awesome way to reflect back on, ’cause ’cause what you just said is like, nobody explains how the body works, or it’s like the amounts that I learned in the, the course itself of, you know, just the, even of like what my bo my body responds to, but unique things that are specific to a woman’s body. Like when you’re on your menstrual cycle, like you will never lose weight. And the amount of water that I was definitely not taking and what you think is healthy, which really isn’t healthy, and mm-hmm. like, to your point, I had gone through two years of a misdiagnosis with, you know, gallstones from being pregnant and literally misdiagnosed for two years.

AJV (00:08:06):

And then on top of that, I kept having all my labs checked and like, no, your hormones are great. And then I realized, oh, your hormones change daily as a woman. And so it’s like, unless you’re having them checked pre like every day, it’s like, how would you ever, and it was, there’s so many things that we just don’t know, right? And what I love is that, and we say this all the time at Brand Builders Group, it’s like, your content should be your conclusion, never your hypothesis. And what I love about you and your program is like, no, this started from a, a personal need to then a dedication and expertise of doing the thing, right? 300 times a week for a very long time Yeah. To get to the place of conviction, right? And I think that’s one of the most powerful things that I have seen in your program, is that you, the leader of the program, are so convicted that what the program offers works.

AJV (00:09:02):

That if it’s not working, it’s my fault. Right? . And that’s one of the things that you reminded me of all the time. Well, the program works, so you’re not doing something right. And you know what I love? I love, now, I didn’t love it then, but what I love now is the pure confidence and conviction that you have in the program, because you know that if you follow it, it works. And if it’s not working, then you’re doing something wrong. And as I think about even as brand Builders group of, like our program, I think sometimes the creators of programs or runners of memberships or coaches or consultants or whatever your business is we somehow think like, man, what am I not doing right? And, and I think maybe you haven’t time tested it enough, or you haven’t, you know, gone through it yourself enough.

AJV (00:09:54):

But it’s like when you believe in the program so much and you have time tested it so many times that you can go Uhuh, you are wrong. The program is not wrong. You are wrong. Like, it does increase the level of one accountability and expectations that you have from your clients and realizing, Hey, I can’t do this for you. You have to do it. I’m gonna give you the information. At the end of the day, you have to take it and do something with it. And it creates the partnership versus everyone who buys something and was like, oh, that didn’t work. And it’s like, oh no, it didn’t work ’cause you didn’t do it. Right? Mm-Hmm. . And I think that was a huge part of what I walked away in a business standpoint of like, d our, does our team have the level of conviction in our products and services that you do to be able to go, well, clearly you’re doing something wrong because I know it works. And if it’s not working, it’s you. Right? And I love, I love the confidence that comes in that. And so my first question for you, ’cause I could go on and on and on would be, how’d you get to that level of confidence in your own program?

CG (00:10:58):

Mm-Hmm. , beautiful question. And by the way, I do feel that with BBG I do for that I’m in the, I’m, I’m in, I’m dive, I’ve been diving in, I can tell the system works. I just, I just know it. So I’m, I’m in it and I can feel that conviction from you guys. So I love that you’re asking all your employees like, Hey, do we all have that level of conviction? We know this works after you, you’ve done it with 600 people. And I’ve been, I’ve been through multiple businesses, I’ve listened to your guys’ stuff. I’m like, they know what they’re talking about. Like, I know, you know, so how did I get that level? So there’s something that came up in, in what you were saying that I wanna bring up. Of course, repetition is the mother of skill.

CG (00:11:39):

So when you do something enough, you start building a skillset. But you know what, I noticed this probably, almost probably two years into the fast 40, I started realizing like that I knew what I was doing. I was like, oh my God, this is really good. When you’ve put your hands in enough people and watch them heal. This happened in the chiropractic office. It’s a very important thing for people to hear in terms of programs or courses or even your doctor. Without that certainty, your level of results goes down quite a bit. And so that’s why it’s an important question. When people came to my office many times they had literally untreatable diseases that weren’t gonna get better. And when you sit in front of a doctor that says, I’ve got you. I’m gonna work with you. We’ve got this. The reason I have so much certainty is because I know that it’s not me doing the healing Mm-Hmm. ,

CG (00:12:32):

Because there’s a power inside you that I know how to work with. And I’m wanna get you acquainted with the universe is inside you. I already know that your natural state is health, homeostatic health. I know your natural state is inspiration. I know your natural state is to be able to be energized and also to be able to be asleep and need to sleep. It allows yourself to go back and forth. I’m not doing a thing except tapping into the things you already have. So when you have certainty in the universe, is there anything else you need? Hmm.

AJV (00:13:05):

Yeah. I think that’s really good. And I love what you said too, and this is how I interpret it anyway. It’s like without certainty, your level of skill diminishes

CG (00:13:14):

Mm-Hmm.

AJV (00:13:14):

, right? And it’s like there’s a, there’s certain level of certainty that actually creates confidence in other people that, okay, well he’s, he’s so confident and clearly if I just do this, it’ll work. Right? And I think that’s really important. People need that level of confidence in what they’re buying. ’cause It’s like, I think for a lot of people to whatever business that you’re in, as you’re listening, it’s like, man, a lot of their hopes and dreams are, are within you and what they’re paying for from you. It’s like, man, I think you can help me. Like give me the confidence that you can. And so, right, I love that. And I love that reminder too, that repetition is the mother of all skill, right? And then from that, that grows also confidence and conviction and clarity and all the things. So there’s a lot of different things that I’d love to talk about today.

AJV (00:14:05):

One of them is the mechanics of how you’ve built your program. And then I actually wanna talk about the content of your program. And so I think by talking about the content, it’ll naturally, we can talk about the mechanics. And I would just be so curious to know, because I think there’s a lot of people who are, or who will be in some sort of career transition of, I had the thing, I did the thing, I was the thing, and now I’m moving into the new thing. And you did that, right? And so why fast Forward? Like, why this program? Why a course, why the coaching element? There was lots of things you could have done, and I heard you say a lot of people was coming to you, but you could have done it in a lot of different ways. Why did you decide to go this route?

CG (00:14:54):

Yeah. I have so many, so many things that come to my mind. So, okay, so I’ve done this three times when you talked about the thing where you’ve got the thing and you move to something else. So I went from a very successful, we were the top chiropractic office in Denver, sold it for the top 10% of all chiro offices. And people ask me why I sold it. I was an incredible chiropractor, not from an ego standpoint, but I was, I I literally one of the best ones. I know, I’m, I’m serious when I say that, why the hell would I sell? I’ve learned to listen to my inner guidance. There’s no other answer. There is no other thing. I heard that it was time to sell. Mm-Hmm. I resisted it for five years. Those five years were painful. When you resist what the universe is asking you to do, I thought that I got, I thought that being a chiropractor was like, like literally you have people heal from this stuff. I was like, what else could you do? And it’s like, this is my, my skillset, right? Well, I learned something really powerful. The universe gives you more than one amazing talent. ,

CG (00:15:55):

When you have completed a cycle of action, our reality is, is constructed in cycles. Everything has a beginning, a middle, and an end all. We just don’t want to acknowledge it. All relationships, beginning, middle, end, your body, beginning, middle, end, everything. If you sit in that, you can feel the beginning, middle, and end that the universe or God or whatever the life is telling you. So it told me the end. And it, it may sound crazy, but I literally listened to it. And when I, again, five years of pain of resisting it, you start going, let me figure out how to listen to life a little more. So the, I moved from, you know, chiropractic to building a product business on Amazon. And there was a beginning, middle, and end. And it was interesting because as people started calling me and saying, Hey, could you do the weight loss thing?

CG (00:16:40):

I sensed something’s beginning. Because I think the, the, the challenge is like, as a, as an entrepreneur, we think that we are cr we are, we are creating and driving and building. That’s the push. I’d rather follow the pull. Mm-Hmm. . And so I’ve learned to follow the pull in my, in my twenties I was doing the push. And you know, you start thirties and forties, follow the pull. And I, and I, I’ve, I’ve, I died, almost died to learn that lesson of how to follow the pull, the, the driven, the pushing, the accomplishing, checking boxes. Someone who had never stopped to truly feel themselves. That was me at, at age 40 and had a near death experience and realized, whoa, I wasn’t truly tapping into my feeling, into my heart and listening, not listening with my ears, but listening with my heart. And so that is really what guiding me towards when I, when you say why there, there was a calling.

CG (00:17:38):

Now I did learn in the chiropractic office that I love my freedom. So when you see 325 patients, I was only open 12 and a half hours a week, but I still had to be somewhere. So I had a thought of like, I’ve accomplished that. Could I do the same thing and, and try to have freedom? So I had this interesting, so I had money, but no freedom. Then with the Amazon business, I had I had money and freedom, and I was totally uninspired because I, because I wasn’t fulfilling my purpose. So I’ve realized the money and freedom are really kind of boring, to be honest with you, . Because if you don’t, if you have money and freedom and you don’t truly, you’re not here doing the thing you’re put on this plant to do. What’s the point? And so that’s when I could feel like, oh, the universe wanted to go through these processes.

CG (00:18:28):

And so I, I realized I gotta work with people. I love people. And I wanna say this, this is kind of a, a segue from our last question to this question. I spent 10 years teaching metaphysical seminars. There was a, a brilliant man named Dr. Thurman Fleet who connected together how the subconscious mind works in the body. And in my twenties, I was studying this. Okay. And I just wanna say this ’cause this is important. When you’re working with people, your, we talked about clarity and certainty and conviction. He taught me that the more you focus on and you can concentrate on the things that you want, the mor will amplify it. So, for example, as a doctor, most doctors are so busy, their mind is scattered with all kinds of stuff. What insurance should I bill? Is this person gonna pay blah, blah, blah, that diminishes the patient’s healing result because you’re not present in the moment.

CG (00:19:24):

So one of the things I learned was that when I say something, I’m saying with full brain power, full brain cell activation. So when I say, Diane, when I make this adjustment, your stomach is going to heal. It’s not the words, it’s the power. So 90% of communication, 90% or more of all communication is subconscious, subconscious. 10% is our words and our gestures. It’s the energy behind things. So what I realized was, and that’s why we got such great healings, I started realizing in the fast 40, now I’m not working with people in person. So now I’ve got freedom, I’ve got money, and I’ve got inspiration . That’s where I went. Right? But it was interesting, as I said these words over WhatsApp messages, I literally would start watching people heal. And I, and it just astounded me. I was like, oh my gosh, energy transcends time and space.

CG (00:20:19):

I don’t actually physically need to be with someone to help them heal. The Christian scientists have known that for a long time. They do remote healings. The Egyptians knew this. They were doing remote healings. So I’m dropping some, some heavier stuff because there’s a lot more behind just assert of what’s happening in the unconscious mind. And understand, when you activate someone’s subconscious mind, that is a direct connection to their body. So you have a direct connection to be able to access their body and their life. So when you say your stomach’s going to heal and you’re gonna notice your relationship improving, that’s what will happen in their life with that level of certainty.

AJV (00:20:56):

Hmm. That is good. You know, it’s so interesting. We’re writing our next book right now, Rory, my husband and I, and I just finished up writing our chapter on identity. And it’s so interesting to hear you say that. And it’s really resonating because one of the, you know, kind of, you know, claims that I’m making, at least for me, is that the definition of identity is simply what you choose to believe about yourself. Hmm. Right? And it’s so much about, it’s like what you think about, you bring about like all these little phrases that we’ve heard over the years. And but it, but it’s true, right? It’s like if you believe, like, not you say you believe, but if you actually believe, then there is like this, you know, spiritual thing that starts to happen where it’s like, I tell people all the time, it’s like your reticular activator kicks in, right?

AJV (00:21:49):

And it’s like the moment that, you know, I started really honing in on my health. It’s like I started noticing things that I didn’t notice before. And once I believed that this was, this was possible, it’s like I was more motivated and I was more disciplined. And, you know, I finished the program, what, in April. And this, at the time of this recording, we’re in mid-November. And it’s like, I have not gained not one pound back, not one. Wow. So cool. And so, but a lot of that was from that, that deep inner belief of like, this is my healthiest state and alcohol is not good for me. I’m not saying it’s bad. I’m saying it’s not good for me. Oils are not good for me. Not saying they’re bad, they’re just not good for me. Going to bed at 9:00 PM is good for me, right? It’s like , no, it’s like I started like saying all these different things because they’re true for me, right? And it was like, it was really believing. It’s like I am a better person when I eat healthier. I’m a better person when I get more sleep. And those are true things about me. But too, like what you’re saying, it’s like I really did, it’s like the more that I started believing, it’s like the, the more results that I started getting

CG (00:23:02):

Mm-Hmm, , that’s so

AJV (00:23:03):

Much of what you were saying. That’s so beautiful. So that, that’s a good transition to the program itself. And so I would love to talk about some of the, the phenomenons that I call them anyways, because I considered myself a fairly healthy person all my whole life, right? I’ve been a pretty healthy individual. And then I was just completely dumbfounded and played with, you know, this stubborn weight that wouldn’t leave that which was then diagnosed to a gallbladder issue that I had, had it removed. Long story short, there was lots of things in place, but I remember being on my sales call with you. I have bunny fingers with the sales call, right? Because, you know, all free calls are, you know, a sales call. And that’s okay. ’cause We do free calls too. But it was interesting ’cause I remember you said, it’s like, do you eat a lot of sugar?

AJV (00:23:51):

And I said, no, I’m not a sweets person. And you were like, let me ask that again. Do you eat a lot of sugar? And I said, no. And he, you were like, okay, let me rephrase that. You eat a lot of sugar . And I just remember being like, no, I don’t . I like, and, and I think you even said, you’re like, I want you to do me a favor after our call. I want you to go to your pantry. I want you to go to your refrigerator and I want you to look at the sugar content that’s in all the foods. Look at all the sauces, look at all the drinks, look at all the foods in your pantry, and then come back and tell me that you don’t eat a lot of sugar. And I remember doing that, and this is before I signed up for your program and paid for the program.

AJV (00:24:38):

And I remember sitting in my pantry for like an hour pulling up every single thing. And I was like, oh, what? Like, I was like, in every spice like my favorite garlic salt, I’m like, why is there sugar in garlic salt? It was in the craziest, like, what? Like what do you mean? And it was one of those convicting moments that I was like, okay, maybe I, maybe I’m missing something here. Maybe I don’t , maybe I’m not as healthy as I thought I was. Right? Which is when I then signed up for your program and realized, oh, I’ve missed a lot of things. So there, therein lies my question. What are the things for the person now there’s some people listening who just go, I know I’m not healthy. Like I know it. There’s other people who go, no, I’m not. I’m pretty healthy. Like, what, what would you say to the person, let’s just say me that’s going, no, I, you know, I’m, I’m pretty healthy, but yet I’m not in optimal shape and I’m not where I wanted to be. I’m not actually happy where I’m at and yet Mm-Hmm, , you know, that I, ’cause I know, you know, so what would you say to the person that’s going, I’m pretty healthy and you’re going well, let’s talk about that.

CG (00:25:54):

Well, okay, a few things. I’m not in the business of telling someone to do something that they don’t want to do. So I’m a big fan of letting people find their own pain. That’s what my sales calls are. So my entire process is if someone’s calling and they would lose 10, 20 pounds, they haven’t and, and they haven’t yet. What I want someone to be able to truly see is how that 10 or 20 pounds is robbing them of the things they value the most. And what’s happened in our country, over 33 33 million people are obese. Over 99 million more in the third of our country is overweight. So if we have enough people walking with a limp and you got a limp, you’re pretty normal.

CG (00:26:43):

And that’s the problem. You look around and 10, 10 pounds of weight, no big deal. My cousin’s 60 pounds of weight. My family’s from Louisiana. Louisiana is some of the best food in the planet and some of the worst food in the planet. 60 pounds of weight is healthy in Louisiana. And so, you know it, it’s very wild to look at this. It’s all comparison. Our brain has comparison. We are the fattest country on the planet. And I wanna say this in, in the most direct way to people. You should look up the life expectancy versus a per capita spent on healthcare. It will make you vomit. We have so many countries that are spending 2, 3, 4, $5,000 a year on, on healthcare for someone and their life expectancy. Sweden, Italy is over over the eighties. Our average life expectancy is in the, is low seventies.

CG (00:27:32):

And we spend over $10,000. There’s no one even close. Sweden is spends $4,000. And that is they most spent the, all the countries in the world per capita per person. We spend over $10,000 per capita on person. And we have a almost 10 year less life expectancy. Why? So, so when you look at why there’s two big things. One, our food has been riddled with preservatives and sugars. Now something just happened re recently we saw the elections and there’s, there’s a man named RFK Jr. Whether or not you like him or not is not the question. I’ve watched him for years. He’s tapped in. He is set out to hold our companies accountable. When you look at Cheerios, when you look at fruit loops, there are 13 more ingredients in our cereals than other countries allow. Those ingredients are things like dyes, actual toxic dyes made from petroleum.

CG (00:28:30):

If you go to Australia, Cheerios are dyed with beet juice and carrot juice for the color. This is the sadness of what our FDA has allowed. Your government has allowed this in your food. And I’m saying this in a way that I hope it gets whoever’s listening to this upset. So when you start understanding this, it’s not a conspiracy. It’s actually happening. Our foods are riddled with stuff. Why it’s cheaper to use dye, then use beet juice. There’s no reason other than profit. And I won’t go into too many details about this, but the FDA they’ve allowed it because the biggest lobbyist right? Can, can, and the companies have the biggest money for them to allow that to happen in your food and sugar. There’s a book called Sugar Blues that I recommend everyone read it is fantastic. But it tracks, it’s very interesting ’cause it tracks the rise and fall of almost every major civilization since like the 16 hundreds.

CG (00:29:23):

The countries that owned sugar became wealthy. They became wealthy, but their people were eating it. So in 100 to 300 years, another country took them over. ’cause They’re a two week to fight. This has happened for thousands of years. This is nothing new. This is what’s happening with America right now. So, so I love to empower people, number one about what’s put what they’re putting in their food. And you know, like you did in, in my program, we eat real food. So many weight loss programs are using powders and pills. Nutrition doesn’t come from a bottle. It’s never come from a bottle. Nutrients don’t come from a bottle, comes from the food that God put in the earth. So that’s number one. And number two is because of the excess sugars. One of the things that’s important to understand is a process called du lipogenesis.

CG (00:30:11):

Your body will convert. It’s magical. You gotta listen to this. You body takes sugar and it converts it into fat on you. Why is that magical fat is the most amazing fuel source for the human being. You are a genius. When you burn fat, you are a rockstar marathon runner. When you burn fat, you’re an amazing bodybuilder. You’re an amazing mother. When you burn fat, fat has nine calories per gram where a protein and carbohydrate has four. So fat is literally jet fuel. Okay? But so your body geniusly takes sugar in and it converts it to fat. Why? It’s because it goes, Hey, I’d rather lay down fat because you’re gonna have a better fuel source for, for you it’s doing it out of love. But when you have too much sugar coming in than you start loading up the fat, okay? So that, it’s almost as if you put a low octane fuel in your car and your car could change it to a higher octane fuel.

CG (00:31:03):

That’d be magical. That’s what your body’s doing. So when you start seeing how much sugar is being put in, yes we are, we’re we’re generating more fat, we’re becoming bigger. But why is that an issue? Why not just be fat? Why not just, just like you said, just 10 pounds, 10 pounds, no big deal. It has been proven that if you reduce your weight just by five to 10%, five to 10% of your fat, you decrease your risk of disease by 50%. And the true reason is when you are not utilizing fat, there’s a, there’s hormones in your body that use fat. When you load your body full of sugar, your hormones go, Hey, let’s start using this thing. It stops using fat. That’s the moment where disease process sets in. Your joints become arthritic, your mind becomes slow. Digestive issues, a chronic diseases, cancers matter of fact, can many cancers use sugar to metastasize to get bigger inside your body? So those are the main reasons I’ve seen and that’s truly what the fast 40 targets is clearing those up. Not just clearing ’em up, but getting people educated so they understand what’s happening with both our nutrition in our, in our, in our environment.

AJV (00:32:14):

Yeah. And that, that was truly like to what you said, and I think a lot of people hear that a lot about the sugars and don’t do anything about it. ’cause I don’t think you understand for the most part that it’s in everything. Like I, I was thinking about, I don’t, I don’t really eat sweetss. Like I don’t, and then I realized, oh my gosh, I eat sugar all day. What is happening? ? And there’s some of that. But what I was more blown away with is the oils. And as I have talked about this program ad nauseum to all my friends and anyone who will listen that has also been like, what do you mean? You mean olive oil? You mean like good oils? And I’m like, I mean all oils, body lotions, facial lotions, body gels food oils in your foods. And out of everything that I’ve noticed since the program, ’cause I have an insanely low tolerance to anything that has oil in it. At home we cook with water. But if I go out somewhere within five minutes of putting something in my body, even if I requested, Hey, please just steam this, I don’t want it. I know within an instant. So I feel like there’s a lot of the sugar conversation, regardless of people are buying into it or not. I had never in my life heard this oil component. Yeah. So talk, wanna talk about that.

CG (00:33:39):

Yeah, that’d be good. Yeah. This is by the way, the, the, the, it’s fun. What’s fun for me is I’ve always been the guy, especially as a chiropractor, that I, I literally am doing something completely different than what mainstream media and medical system tells you. That’s why I get such good results. And to fast forward is no different. I’m willing to be the guy that’s like, listen, what you’ve been told is completely false. I’m okay. I’m okay telling you that. And that’s why we have such great results. So the truth is so the fat reserves, you have different types of fat reserves. You have, you have structural fat, which is a necessary fat inside your cells and tissues. You have normal fat. Normal fat is a res, is a reserve that you need. And then you have abnormal fat. Abnormal fat is when you’ve tapped out your normal reserves and your body goes, okay, well I gotta put this somewhere.

CG (00:34:28):

Where does it put it? Your belly, your thighs, your legs, your hips, your butt, all these different areas. And the reason it does it is because of survival. And there’s so many things behind this. But when, when during our hormone reset number one, understand that your hypothalamus, the part of the brain that is very, very primitive is naturally used to looking for fat. It already knows I’m gonna do great with that. Okay? And so over time, like I said, your body becomes efficient in what you give it. So you give it the sugar, it starts switching over sugar. So what we do during our 40 day reset is we remove all oils and fats because listen to it this way. Your brain and body have no reason to use its own fat reserves if you put fat in your mouth. And it’s very confusing to people because they’re still thinking, well, aren’t fats good?

CG (00:35:20):

Yes. But you already have 20 pounds of good fat on you. It’s not about fats being good and bad. I want to get your body to use the good fat on you. It’s the best fat. So that’s why people feel so amazing is your body made this fat Mm-Hmm, , why not use that fat? So once you remove those and you’ve seen this, the fat just slides off. And once someone gets to their healthy fat percentage, then we sparingly put fats in. And it’s, and the reason why this is good, you, you know, I’m glad you really got to that point of seeing that is I saw the same thing. We, we are, we have a whole program after the fast forwarding, now that I’m because of BBG I’m creating, I wouldn’t have figured this out without BBG. And part of what it does is we are actually tracking people’s actual calories and proteins and fats and we have an app we use that people load their foods in every time we go out to eat.

CG (00:36:09):

What you said is exactly it. My mom and I went out to eat, we loaded our food and our fat content was just, it was skyrocketed. And I’m like, oh my God. It’s because when you go to a restaurant, you’re gonna get a fatty burger because if they don’t put a fatty burger in there, you’re gonna complain. ’cause It doesn’t taste good. Mm-Hmm. , most people would eat that. Then there’s bacon, all kinds of stuff. So fat was designed to be, to be utilized very sparingly because it is jet fuel. You don’t need as much of it. You do need certain amounts each day. And you’re a very high energy woman. I attract very powerful, I have entrepreneurs and all kinds of stuff. I work well with powerful people. So we, I want them burning fat, but the brain loves to burn fat, but we just don’t need as much as we’ve been using.

CG (00:36:52):

And, and that was a shocker to me. So none of the stuff I’ve really, you’ve, you’ve seen, I figured this out on my own. It wasn’t that I learned it in the, in school. It was like me and Tubi going, oh my God, look at my body. I used to be, I used to have extra fat on my body. I couldn’t get it off. I was a bodybuilder. And I literally went through and figured this process out and I was like, oh my God, this is so different. I had the same cognitions you did about sugar. I was eating sandwiches, the white bread was sugar . Like I’d go to restaurants, it was full of sugar. Right? So all these things I figured out over time and experimented on my own body and then experimented with my family Mm-Hmm. and then experimented with, I had thousands of patients experiment with to figure these things out.

AJV (00:37:33):

Yeah. And I love that because I think one of the things that is so helpful not just with like the, the health components of this, but you know, it’s, it’s also understanding the, the choices that we make, right? And it’s like, it’s one thing, right? And I think that’s one of like the, the ahas that I love in any program. It’s like, it’s one thing if I’m making choices out of ignorance, right? And, but it’s another, if I’m going, Hey, I know if I do this, this is gonna happen and then if I do this, then this will happen. And I think that’s, that’s a huge part of the success of any program, is giving people the information, the awareness and the cognition to be able to make good choices, right? And that’s part of what I loved about this program is like even if I choose not to like, you know, follow it very strictly in a day, it’s like I also understand the consequences of my choices.

AJV (00:38:34):

And what I also love is I also now know how to reset. I didn’t know how to reset before. And so I’d love for you to talk about that next. And then I have two other things and then I wanna talk about the mechanics of your program. Yeah. Because go on and on. Yeah. But like, just as a quick example, it’s like I know that if I choose to go out to eat, and I think a part of this is I still weigh myself every single day. Not because I’m obsessed about my weight. I’m not, I am truly monitoring how my body reacts to the food that I put in it. Good or bad. This is not a weight obsession. And people go get rid of the scales. No, don’t do that. It’s like, it’s like, it’s like me trying to run analytics on my funnels with no data.

CG (00:39:17):

Bingo. Like

AJV (00:39:18):

What? No, I have to have data. I have to know what works and what doesn’t. I have to be able to monitor that, the output. So I know the input. And that is like, so back to what I was gonna say is the thing that’s amazing is I literally know if I choose to, you know, splurge, which looks different for me now, but if I do, then I know the very next day, here are the three things that I need to do and I will completely reset and I will be fine. Mm-Hmm. , I never knew that before. Part of it I wasn’t monitoring it, but then I’m like, oh man, I no, I don’t know what to do. And so what would you say to the person who’s the, the yo-yo dieter, right? Like, they’re the person who gets on it and all of a sudden fall off the wagon and it’s just this constant yo-yo like what, what are the benefits of your program that teach you how to reset in a way that in my, you know, 41 years had never learned before?

CG (00:40:17):

Well first of all, yo-yo dieting is damaging your health. That’s the first thing. Yo-Yo diet is absolutely damaging. Matter of fact, you look at people who are yo-yo dieting, they end up fatter in the long run. Hmm. Every time you reduce your calories and, and deprive yourself of what you need, you will temporarily lose weight. Both muscle, water and fat. And those aren’t the type you wanna lose fat, you don’t wanna lose muscle. But that’s what happens with calorie deprivation diets. That’s Jenny Craig, that’s Weight Watchers, that’s paleo keto, that’s all of them. So we don’t create calorie deprivation, we create caloric balance. That’s a very specific thing. That’s one of our, one of our pillars in bbg, right? Is we, we literally cr create caloric balance and reset your metabolism. The yo-yo dieting is a screwing your metabolism and making you malnourished. And what happens is you’ll lose weight the moment you put food back in because your brain and body love you, it will lay down more fat.

CG (00:41:10):

Why? Because there’s a 25,000 plus year old mechanism that says, this person’s starving, we must add fat for the next time they starve themselves. Mm-Hmm. So that’s a big clue if someone hears that. Okay. So, so that’s the first thing. The other thing is that you said something, it’s funny ’cause ro I hear Rory in a lot of the videos say the thing that I’ve been saying in a different way. But it’s about pain. It’s about you get two types of pain in this world. Some, some of my patients think I’m a positive person. And I keep kinda reminding people that I’m not positive. I’m an equilibrium. Positive thinking is. Absolute. The most sad people on the planet, the ones that are striving for happiness, the most sick people in the planet are the ones that are striving for health.
CG (00:41:59):

Why? Because we live in a world of polarity. We have two types of pain in this world. The pain of discipline or the pain of regret. And so what I’ve noticed, I’m kind of going back to what you were saying here, is you either decide the discipline of weighing yourself, of looking at the scale. I wanna just mention this. So many women have been told you shouldn’t weigh yourself because you can create some emotional obsession. Absolute. All you’re doing is avoiding pain. There’s nothing else. There’s no other thing. Now I, the primitive brain is wired to avoid pain. So just check this out. We have primitive brain centers, the amygdala and hippocampus, and then you have advanced brain centers. Okay? Your primitive brain, when you are avoiding pain, you are in your animalistic brain center. When you weigh yourself and you face the pain, you are in the advanced frontal lobe.

CG (00:42:51):

So understand this in the, in the, in the animalistic, avoid pain, chase pleasure. You are gonna go back and forth. Yo-Yo diet. You are gonna go back and forth in your relationship. You’re gonna be on a, on a, on a massive pendulum swing of incredibly happy and incredibly sad. That’s what the majority of our, our reality and most of our people are going through. So you have the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. You can decide to avoid the scale each day, and you’ll pay the price of regret, which is sitting in a hospital bed with a, you know, a heart attack trying to get your heart worked, done. That’s a bigger pain. So one of the things that, you know, you’ve seen this is I really push people to actually feel pain. The emotional pain specifically it, you cannot avoid the little pains.

CG (00:43:36):

And I, I thought the same thing when you were talking about that. It was like, that’s like saying I should just stop checking my bank account or checking my analytics. You cannot manage what you don’t measure. So people are worried about creating some kind of emotional trauma to themselves. I would rather you learn to sit in your pain because I know the pathway to your most greatest change is through your pain. If you think about the things that have probably with you two aj, the things that have truly been the most amazing things in our lives, it’s when the hits the fan and you deal with pain, it’s not been from being coddled and supported. Right? So, so anyway that’s a few things about that of, of why, you know, the, the, the whole up and down, the yo-yo dieting, most of it is just truly voting pain.

CG (00:44:20):

So difference of, with us, we create caloric balance. I don’t want you hungry in this program. I don’t want you starving. I already know it’s not gonna work. It hasn’t worked for most people. For third of our country is fat. If dieting was gonna work, it would’ve already worked, right? Secondly, we actually reset your hormones. So we reset your hormones away from sugar and we switch to flip the switch back to fat. That does not happen with any program. And literally there’s not one program, including the recent injections that are completely damaging people’s gallbladder and intestines called ozempic and wegovy. There’s 50 to 60 lawsuits per day for these injections. It doesn’t reset your hormones. It actually screws your hormones up. And, and I’m very passionate just about the hormone reset for both men and women, of course work with both, but men seem to not take care of the health as much as women do.

CG (00:45:11):

So a focus for women. But o one of the things that I think is powerful is if you go into menopause, if you’re 35 to 55, you start having menopausal changes and you are a sugar burner. You’re in for a hellish like condition and hellish like symptoms. If you go through menopause as a fat burner, here’s my experience with thousands of people. Dr. Goldman, this isn’t so bad, right? The medical community would like you to think that you need to load yourself full of chemicals because you’re now 40. That is where I’m standing up for women and for people. Your body has everything it needs. If you get to reset it and put the right fuels in, you’ll create health. And your second half will be healthier than your first half.

AJV (00:46:01):

Well, I mean y’all, I I don’t get affiliate fees for Dr. Cody. I wish he did send me affiliate fees. I do not get them. I am not like . I am not exaggerating. I’m 41, right? And I have so many friends who have chalked up to, well this is just life post 40. This is just life post babies. And I’m literally sitting here going, I’m in the best physical shape of my adult life, better than I was in college. I look better than I did on my wedding day. Like this is the best physical shape that I have been in in my adult life. And most certainly the healthiest. This isn’t just about physical appearance. It’s like I went and had an executive physical a few weeks ago and my doctor was like, well you do not have the labs of a 41-year-old. And I was like, I didn’t think I could, I didn’t think I would ,

AJV (00:46:56):

But it’s like, I’m not tooting Dr. Cody’s horn. It’s like this has been a life transformative change where I feel like so many of us have ignored the pain ’cause we didn’t wanna see it or we’ve been told you don’t need to. But at the same time, we’re being shoved a bunch of powders and pills and programs that ultimately don’t work. I was never hungry and I’m never hungry. People look at the amount of food I eat and they’re like, there’s no way you’re gonna eat all that. And I’m like, I’m gonna eat all you some more. Like I eat so much food, it’s admirable. And it’s all because it’s like my body has reset. It has reset. And I cannot say enough about this program and the way that it has changed my physical and mental health over the last years.

AJV (00:47:44):

But I do wanna talk about two things in transition before I run outta time because you’ve talked about this a lot. The last five minutes is women and specifically women, 35 to 55. And I think a lot of people struggle with, you know, breaking through what we call she hands wall. They struggle with really dialing it in because their audience is too broad. And I feel like you, even though you’ve said, Hey, we can work with men too, but but I love that you, you have actually really defined a very niche audience that you can just crush with. And because of that, it makes it easy for people like me to go, oh, I know who I refer you to. Anyone who talks about hormones, menopause, post children can’t lose this weight. And I’m like, I know someone, I know someone , right?

AJV (00:48:32):

And, and it’s because it’s so clear, right? And so I just wanna recap this. This is even in Dr. Cody’s bio, y’all. So when you’re thinking about how clear should you be, this was in his intro that I said, Hey, send me the bio that you want me to read about you. This is what it says. Dr. Goldman empowers women age 35 to 55 who struggle with stubborn weight that won’t budge despite diet or exercise. Right? And it’s like you have found like the, the demographic and psychographic elements of these are women in this age range who struggle with this, right? And we talk a lot about this at brand builders. I help who do what? I help women age 35 to 55 lose weight that won’t go away. And so how did you pick that audience? And that’s, I wanna talk about that and then I wanna talk about how you decided some of, some of the accountability measures of your program. Yeah.
CG (00:49:28):

Yeah. I can’t wait to chat about that . Okay. So I, yeah, just to, just to really toot bbgs horn like I had done, I, I’ve been in, this is my third business, I actual business. I’m lean hobby and I had done all kinds of finding your avatar stuff before you guys. So I was like, I already knew this, but you guys have truly helped me dial it in. I’ve loved your process. You, you helped me truly dial it in. In the chiropractic office, what I saw was I had mostly women patients. And I, I thought it was ’cause maybe I’m a good looking guy or something. I, I started my bi, my, my, my, my chiropractor office. I was 24 when I built that office. I was, I was young so I was, you know, but I had mostly women. I thought, what the hell’s going on?

CG (00:50:06):

I’m like, okay. But over time what I realized was, this is what I realized. And, and I’m a man so I know this. I can say this, women take action on their health long before men do. So I realized if I could get the women in my office, I eventually would get the man. ’cause I wanna work with men too, but I didn’t have to focus on them. ’cause The men follow the women. Doesn’t, doesn’t that work everywhere? Yes. That’s what, that’s what the bars do. The bars say listen, it’s, it’s happy hour women, women come in free ’cause they know the men are gonna come in. Right? So I’m just using maybe the, maybe it’s the bar strategy. Sure. But that’s what I figured out. And so truly that’s, that’s just what came through is like, my God, I love working with women ’cause they take care of themselves in general.

CG (00:50:46):

Women will tap into feel pain longer before men do. And I’m a man that I feel more feelings than most women. I feel people when I talk to ’em that just start, that happened to me. Just, just whatever it is, whatever my makeup is. So men truly sometimes don’t even understand what I’m even saying. But women understand when I say, would you stop for a second and just drop it and feel what your body’s telling you right now? Like, women can hear that, right? And eventually there maybe, maybe we’ll have a big advancement. Evolution and men will, we will, we’ll follow our women and we’ll catch up to you guys. Right? So that’s truly why I ended up working with that, that, that set of you know of people. And, and I love the age range because it’s, it is the age range that our healthcare system in to, in my, to me, has disempowered.

CG (00:51:36):

The and, and by the way, this has been happening from the time you’re born, our healthcare system. This happened in, in back in the 1930s and forties. They realized that they can teach people that your body doesn’t have what it needs to be healthy. You can become a customer of a lifelong medicine system. I’m not against medicines. Thank God we have emergency care. Freaking love it. Amazing. But emergency care started lapsing over into healthcare, and that’s where we went wrong. And so my message that I’ve known the universe has showed me is the universe is inside you. It’s called innate intelligence. You have everything you need. The universe didn’t build you, or God didn’t make you to turn 40 and forget what chemicals to make. What kind of story are we trying to, like, what the, you know, I’m not gonna curse here as much, but, so anyway, I love empowering and, and disempowering those old beliefs and putting new ones in.

CG (00:52:35):

And you’re such a good model of that. As I get 41, that’s what I experienced. I’m 46. I have more energy now than 26. My, a lot of my people around me are 46. They look like they’re 66. It’s like sad. I want to lo, I want people to truly be healthy. And I’m a very spiritual person. I found that the number one thing to lead people to God is create a healthy body. Mm. When you are sick, you’re not seeking spirituality. When you’re sick, you’re barely, you’re seeking survival. So there’s a much deeper meaning behind, for me, for health. It’s truly getting you connected with your source. This is our ultimate gift from the universe. Mm-Hmm. . When you see it like that, my God, you’re circulating 60,000 miles of arteries and veins. You have no idea how that works. You’re, you put food in your mouth and it turns it into your body. You have over 200 pharmacies inside that make not bioidentical. They make identical chemicals for your body. Why would you need to go to Walgreens? You got 220 Walgreens inside your body. I won’t go on. But the things pretty freaking amazing.

AJV (00:53:44):

I mean, I would let you go on and on and on. This would easily be a three hour episode for me because I think it’s fascinating and I think it’s true. And I think it’s, there has been a disempowering amount of ignorance that we have allowed. And that can’t blame just the government. We have allowed it. And there needs to be more voices who go uhuh. Right? And part of why I wanted to have you on the show is because I believe in the program so much. And also because the dead gum thing works, right? And so I want to help share this. Now, I believe that a huge part of the why the program works is the mechanics of the accountability and the touch points, right? Because there’s a course component which is very informative. And I will tell you, it’s the only course that I’ve ever completed.

AJV (00:54:30):

I am not a course learner. I’m an in-person learner. I’m tactical hands-on, gotta shut it down. It took a lot of self discipline to get through this course. It is not my jam. It’s not how I learned. It’s not how I function, but I did it. It’s probably the only one I’ve ever finished. But that is not what now the information was transformative and just going like, how am I this old and never knew this, but what really moved the needle is your ability to stalk me every day, , or six weeks. And this is a part where I will talk about how Cody is so annoying. , he is so annoying in the best way possible. It’s the most annoyingly helpful program on the planet. But every day, and I have brought this up to countless people who are in the coaching or membership space, I was just literally came off the heels of a female entrepreneur mastermind that I’m a part of, 10 of us who are all in, you know, this different kind of chorus, membership coaching world and space. And they were like, what do you mean every day? How does he do that? And I’m like, I know he does it on WhatsApp. I can tell some of them are more general. I can tell some are more personal. But I was like, I’m having him on my podcast. I’m gonna ask him. So how are you pulling this off? Daily accountability. Daily.

CG (00:55:56):

Yeah. I’ve had many versions of trying you know, of trying to figure out how to do this. Just FYI, I’d landed on this, right? I figured it out. But, so I tried in my chiropractic office when we did the, was this weight loss program. I met with people once a week and we, we measured them. But what I found was seven days was way too long. In seven days, you could have completely screwed it up. So I was like, well, how do I do this daily? I am someone that freedom is just as important to me as money. ’cause I’ve experienced money without freedom and it sucks. It, it’s not worth it. So how do I make money? How do I have freedom and be inspired in helping people? That was the blend of all this. Mm-Hmm. . So it just happened to be that someone was a FA friend of mine introduced me to an app called Voxer.

Ep 549: Simple Steps to Set Your Next Big Goal | Caroline Miller Episode Recap

AJV (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden, and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started.
AJV (00:34):
Do you have a dream that feels just slightly out of reach? Like you’ve got this thing that you really wanna do, and maybe you haven’t even told anyone, but it just feels a little impossible. Well, we’re gonna talk about how do you set big goals today and how to actually reach ’em. And I think first of all, we should talk about what are big goals. And big goals are things that stretch you. Big goals that are, are things that take you out of your comfort zone. These are things that are not necessarily attainable or reachable. They’re not realistic. They’re big. They’re they’re big. They’re gonna force you to be different, learn different things, try new things, fail . They’re gonna require you to ultimately become a new and different person in the process. That’s very different than a typical smart goal or some everyday goal.
AJV (01:32):
These are big goals, and there are, they are goals that change you in the process of trying to reach them. Do you don’t even have to reach them. It’s the process that happens in you trying to reach them. Now, why I think this is a huge part of this. It’s like, why should you set big goals? One because it forces you to become a new and better version of yourself. It forces you to grow. And growth is good. Challenge being challenged is good. Hard work is good. It produces discipline and resilience and work ethic that cannot be, cannot be learned any other pla any other way or in any other place. But there has to be a, a why behind this. That’s internal, that’s intrinsic. It cannot be extrinsic or external. It cannot just be about, oh, I wanna make more money or I wanna beat this other person.
AJV (02:31):
There has to be a, a profound why behind this, that even if you have setbacks, even if you experience moments of failure, even if you have moments of doubt that you proceed because it’s significant enough to keep trying in the midst of it not working. Right? That is really important. The why has to be bigger than the why not, right? And when you’re setting big goals, these are dreams, these are life goals. They have to really have a fundamental why that is significant. Beyond worldly stuff, beyond titles or ego or money or pride or ambition or success. It has to be beyond that. Okay? Now, next thing we’ve gotta break it down. Like what do you actually have to learn in order to do the thing? I just had a, an amazing podcast interview with Caroline Miller who wrote the new book Bake Goals.
AJV (03:28):
And a huge part of it is you have to just determine using goal setting theory GST. Is this a learning goal? In other words, is this something that you’ve never done before? Or is it a performance goal, which is, you’ve done this before, but the goal is to do more of it or do it better, right? So first and foremost, you have to determine in this big goal, what what am I gonna have to learn? Because in order to do it better, you first have to learn it, right? In order to have performance goals, you have to have done it before. So if it’s a big goal, then ask yourself, is this truly a learning goal or is it a performance goal? And if it’s brand new and you’ve never done it before, it’s a learning goal. So what do you need to learn? Who do you need to learn from?
AJV (04:16):
How quickly can you learn it? What resources do you need to learn it? Do you have the money to invest into learning this? These are all things that are a part of reaching really big goals. And the first thing you have to ask is, is it a learning goal or is it a performance goal? And if it’s a learning goal, then we need to give ourselves grace in the process. IE patience, right? Because there are things that you have to learn before you can get results, okay? And so that’s kind of getting into the specifics. Is it a learning goal or is it a performance goal? Right? Then we gotta have our, our, our group our positivity group, our accountability group, our mentorship group, our coaching group, whatever we wanna call it. But we have to have our group, IE our people. We have to have systems and groups of accountability, but not just accountability, but also of support, right?
AJV (05:10):
I think one of the most important things that I actually talked about with Caroline Miller on this podcast is how important it is for us to be around people who believe that we can do it, but also who believe in doing big things in general, right? It, it’s, you have to discern and decide who gets to come along on this big goal journey with you, and who doesn’t And the people who get to come along with you are the people who believe in you. The people that believe that what you’re doing is significant and important, and they want to see you succeed. Not superficially, but genuinely. And also because they are genuinely positive people who also believe in doing big things. They believe in hard work, they believe in perseverance, they believe in doing significant things that matter. You have to surround yourself with people like that so that you have encouragement in the down moments so that you have support when you need it.
AJV (06:09):
That, and that could include mentor groups, coaching programs masterminds. These could also be friends and family. But you really have to discern, it’s like, Hey, I know I’m gonna need positive influences in my life. I know I’m gonna need people who believe in me, believe in what I’m doing, and also who just believe bigger in general. So, right. So those are your, that’s your group, right? Systems and people of accountability. But not just accountability but support, right? But this also includes a, a peer group of learning from people who’ve done what you’ve done in a way that you can also do it, right? So that’s looking for mentors, coaches, role models who have achieved what you want to achieve in a way that you can do it, right? So I think about myself all the time when I’m looking for a different coach or a, a mastermind to join.
AJV (06:57):
And it’s like, it’s one thing to go, I know they’ve done it, but I also have to discern, did they do it in a way that I think would work for me? , right? Like, do they do it in a way that I’m like, I, I could follow in those footsteps. Like, hey, there, there’s a system there that I could execute, execute the way that they’ve done it. I could learn that. I know about myself, like I personally don’t learn well in course format, right? So buying courses isn’t gonna work for me. I am a tactical hands-on in their environment learner. I need to do it with someone. And I need to do hands-on learning. Like on the job training is how I learn. And so I’ve got to discern what is the, the way that I can do it and, and, and can I afford it, right?
AJV (07:40):
Or if I’m gonna have to slow it down and pace it out. But this is giving myself grace to do something that is big that I haven’t ever done before. But also the time to do it with people who believe in me, who will support me, but then also discerning who I need to learn from. And it’s not anyone. It’s a specific type of person. So that I can follow in those footsteps and, and learn in a way that I can digest and do it in my unique way, right? So those are all systems of accountability and your people group, right? Next is we’re gonna have to build some resilience to do big things. We’re gonna, and that includes discipline. That includes perseverance. That in that includes some grit, right? We’re gonna have to mentally note in advance if we’re gonna do something big what could go wrong and what am I gonna do when, probably not if, but when bad thing happens. Prepare in advance for setbacks. Don’t get caught off guard. Fully expect them so that when they come, they don’t shut you down. They are, they may be naysayers. What are you gonna do if they come your way? There may be setbacks. It may go slower than you want. So what are you gonna do if that happens? Things may break, things may fail, things may not launch. Well, it may not go the way you want. What are you going to do if that happens?
AJV (09:15):
Know in advance so that when it comes, you have a plan in place to keep moving forward. ’cause If you don’t, these are the things that knock us off the horse. These are the things that throw us off. Throw us off the rails. And if we’re not prepared, we lose so much time that we give up. We give up hope. We give up that this even is something we wanted to do. And so we stop. And the only failing that happens is when we quit, not quit. The things that we decide are no longer good for us, but we quit the things because they got too hard for us. There’s a difference between quitting because it’s no longer good for me and quitting because it just got too hard for me. Don’t quit. ’cause It gets hard. That’s where character is built. That’s where you are built. Don’t quit because it gets hard. You quit when it’s no longer good for you. But just remember, hard things are good for you.
AJV (10:11):
Hard things create character that cannot be built anywhere else. But that is up, up to you to discern what those things are, but prepare in advance, prepare in advance for them. Next, take consistent action. Co consistency, right? It’s not the first time you’ve ever heard. This won’t be the last time you’ve ever heard this. And that’s because it’s true. consistency is important, right? Small, consistent steps are, are bigger than inconsistent or are more important than bigger inconsistent ones. So it is important that we go, like they, these are the, the daily consistent things that need to happen that eventually will snowball into the bigger things. Those are more important than taking huge steps very inconsistently. So be prepared with what are those consistent actions, those habits that I need to do on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual basis to get to where I need to be, right?
AJV (11:15):
This is all about taking action. And that, that requires a plan. You have to know what direction you’re going to take the first or the hundredth step. So know your direction and have it well mapped out so that you can benchmark. Is this a daily, a weekly, a monthly, quarterly thing? And also, where do I need to be at these different benchmarks? Where do I need to be? 90 days in the journey, six months in the journey, 12 months in the journey. If we’re gonna set out to do big things, we need a big detailed plan, right? And that is about how do you set out those daily consistent things that you’re gonna do? And again, they, they’re not all daily. Some are daily. But what are the things that need to happen to create consistency to hitting this big goal? And last, but most certainly not least, is what are your points of reflection? And I think this is one of the things that is most important in my life, is on a very, I would say, consistent basis, for lack of another word, since I just talked about consistency. You have to remember not just why you’re doing this, but more importantly who you’re doing it for. And I have to tell you right now, it shouldn’t be you. Big goals should not just be centered on you.
AJV (12:31):
That is one of the first ways that you won’t achieve them. It’s because it was too isolated to just you, and that’s just not big enough. Doing it just for yourself isn’t big enough. So when I talk about have reflection on the who, I mean, who is this goal really for? Is it for your kids? Is it for your family? Is it for your spouse? Is it for your clients? Is it for your future clients? Is it for the next generation? But who is this for? And remember that when you’re doing this, it’s not just a goal for a thing. There is impact for a person when you achieve your goals. And that, that that goes beyond you. And if you do it well, and if you do it right, if it’s really big, it goes beyond just your friends and family too.
AJV (13:21):
It has the opportunity to impact your community. It has the impact to, you know, potentially impact your nation or even the world. Like that is a big goal. And big goals require a big focus on who, who is this for? Like, who am I building this business for? Who am I making this content for? Who am I writing this book for? Who am I doing this, you know, sporting event for who, whatever it is, it’s like, who is this for? Is it to prove that it can be done for everyone who comes after me? Is it to put a stop to the chaos that’s happening in and around, you know, my community? Who is it for? And if you re remind yourself and remember that there are people at stake here, then it, that is what gives you some endurance, that gives you some ammunition to push through on the dark nights when you’re like, what am I doing?
AJV (14:18):
What was I thinking? Well, what you were thinking is that people are worth it because they are. So don’t forget in the midst of numbers and metrics and things and steps and lessons, that there is a who at the center that will benefit from you accomplishing this goal. And it’s beyond you and it’s beyond your family potentially beyond your community. But there is a who, a group of people, a person that you have the opportunity to have life-changing impact on if you do this. And that is what should keep you moving. It’s the who at the center of those big goals.

Ep 548: The Power of Setting Big Goals with Caroline Miller

AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode on the Influential Personal Brand podcast, a j Vaden here. Super excited to introduce you guys to a new friend of mine. And also super excited to get to have this conversation literally on the eve, right this as this podcast is reaching your ears. This is the eve of her book launch her new book called Big Goals. We’re gonna be talking to Caroline Miller today who is an eight times, let me say that again. An eight times bestselling author, an international speaker, and a globally renowned expert and positive psychology. And let me just say, we all need a little bit more positivity right now. with a still focus on goals and grit. And I am so excited to have this conversation. One, because it’s the perfect time of year to be having it as we’re rounding out the end of the year.
AJV (00:56):
Looking forward to next year, we should all be in the mindset on what are the goals that we have for the next year. Or some of us are thinking three, five years, 10 years, but oh yeah. One of the things that we wanna challenge is, but are we setting the right goals and are we setting big goals? And so this is a conversation today about what’s the science and the power behind big goals. And Caroline, how, how, how long have you been actually writing this book? Like, not just the physical words, but the, the, the research and the, the data. Like how long has this book been in progress?
CM (01:38):
I would love to say my whole life I’ve been obsessed with goals, but really ever since the science of goal setting lock and latham’s goal setting theory was introduced to me in 2005. That’s when my life changed. And this book is the result of squeezing the tube of toothpaste earlier this year to get out a brand new streamlined guide to this science. ’cause Most people don’t know it. And it’s extraordinary to me that most people don’t know it.
AJV (02:04):
Yeah. Like, I just wanted to hear, it’s like, that’s like, we’re talking about almost 20 years of data and research and just experience and all of the things in that’s gonna go into the next hour. So Yeah, when we think about the amount of time and expertise and just dedication spent on this subject matter, subject matter, I would just highly encourage, like, think about this for a second and then we’re gonna jump into the interview. What if in the next hour you could get the consolidated data and findings from 20 years of research that can empower you to set bigger and better goals for your life, would it be worth it? And I bet the answer is yes. So stick around, stay for the whole episode and we’re gonna start that now. So, Caroline, welcome to the show.
CM (02:52):
Well, that’s galvanizing. I’d stick around . It’s worth it. It’s a secret I’m gonna share is the secret. Everyone should know. It’s like the 800 pound gorilla that people don’t know about.
AJV (03:04):
Well, I, I wanna know. So I mean, a part of why I wanted to have you on this show is like, you know, the first question I had for you, and we had talked just a little bit about this before I hit record, is like, what do you think separates big goals from all of the other goals that are being set? ’cause If, just for context for, if you’re listening, as you’re reflecting on the goals that you had for this year, as, as I did kind of prepping for this interview, and as you look forward to the goals that you’re setting next year, it’s like, are these big like or am I playing small here? Am I just setting goals on the paper that I know I can achieve? Or am I setting big goals that could be life changing or world changing? So that’s what is a big goal and what separates that from all of these other goals we’re all setting?
CM (03:53):
Well, I think it’s baked into the word big. I think big girl goals are the ones that have some of our passion and the things that we’re most excited about baked into them. So, big goals change our lives. They do change the world. They change our world. Sometimes they change the entire world. And because they’re so big, they require a different set of skills and talents and focus and grit that regular local goals don’t have. And we know from the science, I’m gonna share with you the big secret goal setting theory. We know the best outcomes across the board come from setting challenging and specific goals. And those are big goals. And most people set no goals or low goals that they’re pretty sure they’re gonna accomplish. And what happens is the world, the world rewards people who set big goals because of what goes into achieving them and how much awe they can inspire in you and others. So we all need to have big goals, and we all need to find out what we’re made up in the process of going after our own big goals.
AJV (05:02):
As someone who does typically set goals, how, how could I even define for myself what’s a big goal?
CM (05:11):
A big goal should be if you stretch your hand out and your fingertips are at the end, a big goal is past your fingertips. Mm-Hmm. it’s something that you are actually gonna take some risks on because you don’t know for sure that you’re gonna be able to achieve it. It’s gonna require your character strengths. It’s gonna require patience, passion, it’s gonna require a certain amount of persistence and grit and resilience. And yet those are the goals that at the end of the day, in the process of pursuing them, we know that everyone scans their day at the end of the day for what they did that that they’re proud of. And the things that we’re proud of, violently proud of are the things we did outside of our comfort zone in pursuit of a big goal. And that is the only way we change our perception of what we’re capable of. And the more we do it, the more that muscle is built and the more flourishing we have in life. And that’s really, you know, that’s the whole shooting match is are we flourishing?
AJV (06:11):
Hmm. That’s so good. And I love, I literally like wrote this down, it’s like big goals change you in the process.
CM (06:19):
Yeah. They change you. They, yeah. That’s so Yeah. Well, they change you because it’s, it says that you have audacity, that you’re willingness to push all your chips in the middle of the table. You’re willing to find out what you made of, you’re willing to find out who has your back. In the process of doing this, you often find out who really has your back. Not people who say they do, but who’s there. And there’s a, a trick I can share with you from psychology where you, you know, who has your back by one thing that they do. I’ll get back to that. But it does change you because you begin to ladder up to more and more things that you’re passionate about that are important to you when you play a little bit bigger. Now, let me just say, asterisk has to be your goal. It can’t be your parents’ goal, your spouse’s goal, your culture’s goal, your religion’s goal. It has to be something that lights you up. Mm-Hmm. . And that will sustain you in the dark night of the soul when you have failed, when things haven’t gone your way. It’s really important that you have intrinsic motivation to use the big, fancy word because that’s what keeps you going when it’s extrinsic. When it’s about money, status, power, somebody else’s approval of you. You don’t have what it takes to pursue and accomplish big goals. Mm.
AJV (07:37):
You know what I, what I love about what you just said is like, what I heard is that big goals take work.
CM (07:46):
Oh, what a concept. do. I have a lot to say about that.
AJV (07:52):
You know, and it’s, I think a lot of people want big things, but they don’t wanna have to do a lot of work.
CM (08:00):
And that has really changed in, in the last few generations. That’s a piece of what drove me towards this book because I raised three wonderful adult children, and I happened to be raising them during the self-esteem movement when we were told as parents, tell your kids they’re winners. Give them trophies even if they don’t make the team valedictorians, were taken out of school. Playgrounds were dumbed down so that nobody could get hurt, comfort animals for all. I mean, I gotta tell you, the whole world became a dumbed down bubble wrapping of this generation. And so for many of them, the first time that they get any real honest feedback about who they are, this grades are so inflated that’s been proven is when they get a real performance review in the workplace. And for some, it’s like, what do you mean I didn’t exceed expectations by showing up?
CM (08:57):
I mean, whatcha whatcha saying? So yeah. So I think this concept of doing hard things was filtered out of society and not just in the United States. Really everywhere. It was a movement that swept the world. And there’s always pockets of exceptions there, there athletes, they’re Eagle Scouts. There are people who pursue, you know, passions. They start companies. They have, you know, instruments that they play. However, there was a zeitgeist, there was a cultural revolution against doing hard things because you’re not supposed to be stressed. And in the process of removing stress from our children’s lives, we didn’t make them resilient. They didn’t develop grit. So I wrote a book called Getting Grit that came out in 2017 because I really wanted to talk about the fact that I cultivated grit when I set the biggest goal of my life in my early twenties to, to save my own life.
CM (09:50):
I had bulimia. And it was a time when there was no cure, no hope you were gonna be bulimia for the rest of your life. If you made it that long, you’d probably lose your teeth. You probably wouldn’t be able to have children. I mean, it came with all kinds of side effects, but it was hopeless. And I decided I wanted to live more than I wanted to die, more than I wanted to chase an image of what my body could possibly look like if I got good enough at this bulimia thing. But I lost everything. I lost, I lost my sport. I, I lost piano. I limped through Harvard. I’m not sure how I got through it, but I did. And I hit my left bottom at 21 and decided I wanted to recover. My parents who didn’t know about it, nobody.
CM (10:33):
It was my goal. And because of that, I cultivated grit One day at a time. I failed. I failed, I made mistakes. But you know what? I kept getting up and I had this big passionate goal. I wanna live and I wanna survive ’cause I must have more to give to this world than my swimming times and my SAT sports and I survive. And I wrote a book called, my Name is Caroline. That really set me on a course of sharing how you have a big dream like recovery or going to the moon or living in a foreign country and, you know, pursuing a dream job there, how do you do it? And I decided that in order to cultivate grit, you have to have certain qualities that are not inborn, but you have to decide. You wanna work hard and have passion, and have persistence, and have patience and have humility and all the qualities that go into it. That’s what it takes to achieve big goals. And we all should have them, but we should all know, going back to your point, work is involved and it’s gonna be hard. And that’s just the way it is.
AJV (11:42):
So I wanna talk about that for just a second in this, you know, concept of setting pit goals. Because inherently that means you’re doing something you’ve never done before, which is, is gonna require you to learn things you don’t know, try things you haven’t tried, work with people you haven’t met. There’s a lot of that Right. Associated with that. Yeah. So a question that I have is, I would imagine, and I’m pretty certain many people struggle staying motivated when tur when working towards big goals like this. And so, mm-hmm. I would be curious to hear from you, like what are the, some of the strategies that you’ve uncovered or even some of the science and the data of how do you drive and resilience when you’re trying to achieve something that’s real hard?
CM (12:29):
Well, this goes back to the secret I promised I’d share with your listeners. Okay. It’s all about goal setting theory. So I was introduced to goal setting theory when I went back to school. I went to the University of Pennsylvania to get a master’s degree in applied positive psychology. So it was the first 33 people in the world to get this degree in the science of happiness. And in assignment that fall 2005 was goal setting theory and Lockman latham’s goal setting theory is ranked number one of 73 management theories. Number one, never a replication crisis. None of these challenges that exist for so many theories. And it divides goals into learning goals and performance goals. And it’s simple and elegant, but if you get it wrong, you can really screw up businesses. I mean, it can cause businesses to fail. It can cause you to disengage from your goals.
CM (13:18):
My recovery from bulimia was a learning goal. And so whenever you’re doing something for the first time, maybe the world’s doing it for the first time, you have to give yourself the grace of learning the skills, finding the right people, learning how to make the best decisions learning how to have resilience and grit as you fail and get up and have hope. And so you have to set those metrics in the process of having a learning goal to tell you, I’m going in the right direction. Because goal setting theory says you have to have feedback. You have to have the kind of feedback that tells you that you’re on the right track, you’re doing the right thing, this is going well, or it’s not going well. And then you pivot. And you always have to have the humility to be teachable by the process of pursuing goals. But also because you have the humility to have people around you who are your board of advisors, and you listen to them and you trust them and you seek their advice. And ca counsel, because something called stupid grit is when you don’t have any of that and you’re sure you know how to do it, and you’re just gonna bulldoze your way to whatever the outcome is that you think is the right way to go with the strategy, you’re sure it’s gonna help you.
AJV (14:30):
Mm. And I, and I, and I love that it’s like the difference between a learning goal and a performance goal and learning is realizing, Hey, I’m doing this for the first time. Yes. Or be some trial and error. There’s likely gonna be successes and failures. It’s gonna be one of those, like I take two steps forward, take five steps back. Right?
CM (14:51):
Right. Like
AJV (14:51):
That. I think that’s a really good and helpful kind of this way of even going like, Hey, am I, as I’m setting goals, are these learning goals IE first time things? Or are these performance goals which are right improvement? Is that a a good assumption?
CM (15:07):
Yes. So I, in the book, in big goals, I call them checklist goals because these are things like recipes. You’ve done them before and there might be a way to fine tune the recipe. Maybe another teaspoon of sugar is gonna make the banana bread taste better. But performance goals are things where you can reliably say, if I follow these steps and I do it in this order in which I’ve gotten the best outcomes before I can expect this outcome by this date. So there are lots of things that we do that we’ve done before. And what we need to do when we set out to, you know, pursue learning goals or performance goals, is first ask ourselves what’s new? If it’s a performance goal, a checklist goal, what’s new? What’s come out in artificial intelligence, or what’s new in the world in technology that I can use to actually use this checklist goal, this performance goal to get faster, better, stronger.
CM (15:58):
I’ll give you an example from the Paris Olympics. There were nine swimmers from the United States in the Paris Olympics who were training with something called digital twins at the University of Virginia. And so the fast suits are gone and poach have really expanded as much knowledge as they can have at the moment to train these elite athletes. But they found that you could create a digital twin of yourself doing the perfect stroke, perfect streamlining coming off the walls with no friction or drag with your head. And what they found was they compared the current swimmer with the perfect digital twin, and they would use the digital twin to make little tweaks in their strokes. I’ll just give you an example. Kate Douglas set a world record and won the 200 meter brushstroke with the digital twin training. And so for a year and a half, she worked on moving her head just like half an inch because the computer model said, you do that, you’re gonna set, you’re gonna set lots of records.
CM (16:58):
So it’s work. So that’s a performance goal. She knew how to swim, she knew how to train. She, she had to coach, she had the teammates. But this digital twin was new. Learning goals. The first thing you have to do is flatten your learning curve as fast as possible. Not, oh, I’ll just do my best. And I’ll see how it goes. It’s where am I gonna get the knowledge? Who do I need to meet? Is this knowledge on YouTube? Is it in Wikipedia? Is it in a book? Is it in a documentary? Who’s doing it really well in the world? And I can study them by reading a biography or whatever it is. And that’s how you eventually turn learning goals into performance goals. And this is the biggest mistake being made in the workplace right now. And I’ve been all over the world. I’ve worked with lots of companies, everyone’s setting goals. Nobody is using goal setting theory, but they all have fancy productivity dashboards and they’re paying a fortune for ’em. And I am mystified that the number one theory, the number one theory with decades of rigorous scholarship behind it is still unknown by most of the world. And most of the world is setting goals. And I’m gonna, I’m fixing that with the book. Big Goals, goals. I had to, we’re in a dire situation right now, partly because of Covid, but that’s another point I can make.
AJV (18:14):
Yeah, I know. It’s interesting. In my prior life for prior to Brain Builders Group, you know, I was a sales consultant and I did that for 14 years and all, all I did was monitoring performance metrics and word performance metrics. Right? Never once or did I come across what would be considered a learning goal. These were all,
CM (18:36):
Wow,
AJV (18:37):
All performance goals. Mm-Hmm. it was how do you do more of it or do it better, but it,
CM (18:43):
You don’t know how to do it,
AJV (18:44):
Right. It was, I never heard that, ever. Right. Never saw it. Think about dashboards. And so can you just give the audience like a tangible example of like, what, what would it look like on paper to have a learning goal versus a performance goal? Like what, what would that sound like in like real world?
CM (19:04):
I have so many examples I could give you. I’ll just give you one of my, one of my clients who was a superstar working in a big department store system. She had risen as high as she could and she knew how to do her job and she always did it well. She got lots of awards, bonuses, you know, stars on the wall, et cetera. And she had a dream of being an entrepreneur. And there was this very specific kind of company she wanted to start. So she got money from family and friends. She used all her bonus money and she launched this company. And by the time she found me, she was about to throw in the towel on her big bowl, her big dream. And here’s what she said to me, Caroline, every Monday morning I dial into a mastermind group and we all announce our goals for the week. And, and mine are always aggressive because that’s the way I’ve always operated. It’s always worked for me. Big goals. And then by Friday we’re, we call back and, you know, we talk about our progress. And every Friday I’ve failed at all my goals. And I asked her one simple question, I’ll, I’ll make up a name. Natalie. Natalie, how many of the goals that you’re announcing on Monday for this new business, this entrepreneurial business, are things that you’ve done before?
CM (20:12):
Yeah. And she thought about it and she went, none of ’em. I’ve never opened, done Shopify. I’ve never put booths together. I’ve never gone to trade shows to sell things. I’ve never walked into pet stores to try to sell this. I’ve never done any of these things, but that doesn’t matter ’cause I just work very hard and I should be able to do all these things. And I said, eventually you can. But what you did was you assumed that you could perform and have outcomes that you wanted by Friday or the next Friday or whatever, without giving yourself the grace of learning these things. You haven’t gotten a mentor. She was very proud. She hadn’t gotten a mentor, she hadn’t worked with a small business administration. She hadn’t taken on the time and the willingness to learn all the things that were the fundamentals. So on paper, what does it look like?
CM (20:58):
You know, she had to learn Excel, she had to get a mentor, she had to build a budget, she had to find an internet consultant who actually put Shopify on a website. She was trying to make her own website. I got, I could go on and on and on. But whenever you are superstar, you’re doing really well in one department of life and you try to go to another department, but you’ve never, you’ve never done those things before. You’re just thinking, I’m a high achiever, I can do it. You’re setting yourself up for failure, disengagement, depression, feeling overwhelmed, and then coding yourself as someone who just can’t do those things. And we live in a quick fix society, and this is common. We want instant results. And we think that we can just transfer hard work from one area to hard work in another area. It doesn’t work like that. Goal setting theory breaks it out beautifully.
AJV (21:45):
I love that so much. And you know, what I love about that so often is that so resonates with so many of the conversations that we hear at our company, brand builders group about people come in and they, they have big, big dreams of, yeah, I want to rock and launch a New York Times bestselling book. I want to build this coaching program. I want to impact a million people speaking on stages. I wanna do these big things. And when all of those haven’t happened in a year, they’re like, I failed.
CM (22:15):
I’m just, you failed. Blame it on you then , right? It’s like,
AJV (22:19):
No that those things take time, right? There’s, you know, there’s a process, there’s a, there’s a system of, back to what you said, it’s like we expect all these results and we don’t Yeah. Actually give credit to what you have to learn and the process to get the results. And those are
CM (22:39):
Right. And how do you learn? Those are perfect examples. And sometimes what we do is we deputize, we hire a company or we go to some guru and we think, well, that person’s gonna give us all the secrets and if we just work with them, it’ll all just magically happen. There’s always work involved. And what I’m sure you’re describing is the process of learning the steps on the way to being able to accomplish these things. And what do you do? You study exemplars of success in whatever that area is. And let’s say it’s a woman who wants to make a, you know, make it, make it big on a stage. And all she’s studying are men who’ve been able to do the same thing. That doesn’t transfer either. And we’re just now realizing that age agentic women have to operate differently from men because women get penalized for displaying that kind of behavior.
CM (23:30):
So you have to make sure that the role models, role models you’re studying look like you, sound like you, maybe they’re from your culture and that what worked for them will work for you. So often what we see is somebody on YouTube or on Instagram or whatever, saying, well, this is how I lost weight, or this is how I built my business, or this, this, this, this, this. And we think, ’cause it worked for them, it’ll work for us. Stop and ask yourself this question. Will it work for me, my learning style, the kind of money that I can invest in this? Mm-Hmm. , you know, the way I see the world. And people don’t do that. We don’t ask enough questions. So in the book, I start with goal setting theory, which really is the engine. It’s the engine of all goal accomplishment. And I’ve spent 20 years assembling the best research that you also have to know and understand.
CM (24:18):
And it’s the how, how are you gonna accomplish these goals? And my acronym is bridge. You start with brainstorming a certain kind of brainstorming. You go to the relationships. Who are the people? Who are the people who have to be with me on this journey? And who shouldn’t be with me on this journey? Who’s gonna be negatively contagious? People don’t ask themselves that question. What kind of investments do I have to make up time, energy, money, character, strengths, whatever. Here’s a big one. Decision making. People don’t understand their own decision making processes. They’ve never done, for example, a noise audit on the noise that has entered into the decision making. And that’s Danny Kahneman’s work on. And it’s bigger than bias. What kinds of decisions are we making when we’re impacted by the north in our lives? And then grit. Good. Grit is the G.
CM (25:06):
How do we cultivate grit if we’re gonna need it? It’s a big goal. We’re gonna need it. And then excellence. What are we shooting for? Not, which cannot be measured, cannot be achieved, and vice versa. And you can’t hit a target. You can’t see, you have to set a standard of excellence for your big goal. And I’m gonna go back to lock and Latham. The best results for both learning goals and performance goals are what’s called challenging and specific past my fingertips. Stretch your arm out. That’s challenging and specific. So that’s what we’re shooting for. So you always have to go through that, that rigorous strategy building before you get going. You skip a step, you’re gonna have to go back anyway, so you might as well do all the work at, at the very beginning.
AJV (25:46):
You know, it’s the, so in parallel to what we teach at Brain Builders Group, ’cause we’re a strategy firm and we go strategies like the architectural blueprint where you wouldn’t start building a house until you had a solid detailed, you know, well-defined plan. And you don’t start building up until you go down. Right? Yeah, yeah. And
CM (26:07):
It’s gotta lay the cornerstone.
AJV (26:09):
People like to skip through strategy, they like to hurry through it ’cause it’s not the fun stuff. Yeah. it’s, it, it’s the hard stuff, right? It’s the stuff that feels like no progress is being made. However, when you do it right, everything else allows to go faster. Now, you have said something a couple of times, and I’ve jotted this down. You mentioned the swimmer with her team and her coach. You’ve mentioned mentors and coaches and role models. I am assuming that the people component of this plays a role. So I’m just curious, like when, when you’re looking at big goals, like what is the people component and, and probably specifically accountability, right? How much does that really play in? And I love what you said, it’s like you gotta pay, pay attention on who should come along for the journey and who shouldn’t. Like who’s positive, who’s negative. So how do you decide like who should come along and what people I need and what accountability support that’s required?
CM (27:10):
Yeah. Big question. Important question. So Shelly Gable at the University of California, Santa Barbara did research that found that when you share a big goal or dream with somebody, there is one way to respond that tells you that that person has your back and wants you to succeed. And that research finding is this, if they respond with curiosity and enthusiasm called active, constructive responding, that person just signaled to you that they’re gonna be with you to celebrate, to pick you up. When things aren’t going well, they’re gonna check in on you. Those are the people you wanna surround yourself with. There are three other ways to respond, but they’re all negative. But that’s what you’re looking for. So you’re looking for accountability. That’s one. You’re looking for people who support you. You are looking to isolate yourself from the negative contagion. And I wanna say something very special about women.
CM (28:02):
Women make massive mistakes in this area. What women do is they surround themselves with frenemies friends who are enemies. Because the research shows that 84% of women do this because they don’t want anyone to think they’re not nice. And so women endure a lot of what I call incoming fire. A lot of microaggressions, a lot of comments about passive, passive aggressive. Oh, why do you want a goal that big? Are you gonna see your children enough? I mean, I could go on and on and on, but there’s a robust set of studies at, its kind of sickening when you look at them showing that the number one detractors of age agentic women are other women. It comes from men too. And a recent meta-analysis found that the one area where women have made zero progress since 1940 in other people’s eyes in the workplace is in being goal directed.
CM (28:58):
And nagen, we’ve gone up in terms of being seen as competent and warm and communal. But when it comes to being ambitious, this is where we pay a social penalty because we’ve violated stereotype norms. And this is the hidden hand, I believe that’s holding women back. I truly believe it’s holding women back. So the answer to that is every woman should be in a mastermind group, a self formed mastermind group that is full of people who have proven through active, constructive responding and other methods along the way that tell you, this person is really here for me and I wanna support this person as well who meet monthly. Maybe it’s virtual, maybe it’s in person, doesn’t matter. But you must be around a team of people who believe in you because then we have more hope. It’s, it becomes bidirectional and we develop this upward spiral of wellbeing.
CM (29:53):
We become more creative, we take more risks. We’re, we’re happier. I could go on and on and on. And men are more transactional. It’s just a fact. Men, men develop the kinds of relationships where you get a piece of pie that means I get a piece of pie. Let’s all have pie. You know, unfortunately women have been socialized and wired to think you got pie. That means I don’t get pie, so I’m gonna take your pie. Or I’m gonna tell everyone that your pie is terrible. Or some version of that. And I’m not being general, I I, I vowed not to speak about this part unless I knew the research called because everyone has an N of one. Everybody has their own experience. I have all the research to back what I’m saying. And that makes a difference. So you must know who has your back, who’s who do you need to learn from? Who’s gonna be your accountability partner? Who’s gonna be your coach? Who’s gonna be the people that you pay, who have the knowledge or the training or the skills to teach you how to be on stage to teach you how to do social media, et cetera, et cetera. Or you delegate Mm-Hmm you must find people you can delegate things to. And that’s been important to me as I assembled my team, is I have to be able to delegate wisely and well to superstars in their own lanes in life.
AJV (31:02):
Yeah. I think that’s so good. And I think so much of that kind of comes back to even some of the other interconnected parts of, you know, all of your expertise and experience just around positive psychology, right? Yeah. It’s like doing big things requires you to be around people who believe you can do big things, right? Right.
CM (31:21):
Yeah. Because it gives you hope. And I have to say this too. So my, my fifth book, creating Your Best Life was the first book for the mass market that brought this brand new at the time, Meta-Analysis out that showed that all success with all goal is proceeded by being happy first. So we’re talking about all goal, professional goals, personal goals, relationship goals, religious goals, whatever the goal is. You must be flourishing first. You don’t have to be happy Dappy, but you do have to be content serene, joyful, you know, flourishing because it sets you up with all of the chemicals and all of the mindset and the outlook to actually attract other people to you. So you build relationships, you take in more information from the environment, you’re more optimistic. I mean every good thing happens when you’re flourishing. When you’re cynical and pessimistic.
CM (32:17):
It’s the absolute opposite. But the first step in any strategy session is, are you flourishing and do you know how to flourish? And when was the last time that you were a seven or an eight on a scale of nine, you know, one to 10. And what did it take to get you there? ’cause We know from positive psychology, there’s several positive interventions that work for everybody. Hmm. And we might as well know what they are. But then we all have some of our own that might be hybrids of some of those music, you know, being with the right people, gratitude practices, prayer, yoga, meditation, journal writing practice of forgiveness. I mean, there are a few things that work for everybody and we better know what ours is and boot ourselves up every day. ’cause It’s our job to do this. The Happy Fairy is not gonna fly through the window every day and make you happy.
CM (33:04):
It’s work too. This is all work. And guess what? Work is not a bad word. Work is something that’ll make you proud at the end of the day. In fact, lock and Latham found when they studied the Pope Wood Association in this, I think it was the 1970s, they found that loggers who knew how to cut down trees the minute they said, go cut down like 10 more trees than you’ve ever cut down with this logging crew that you’re familiar with. And you all have the right tools. So you know how to, there’s nothing left to learn, but go cut down more trees than you’ve ever cut down. Suddenly there was a sense of pride. Mm-Hmm. in what they were doing. Their jobs had more meaning and, and they did better. So we always wanna challenge ourselves because it’s doing those hard things that make us proud of ourselves.
CM (33:50):
But I could really go on a rant about this, but this is the way we all need to live. Because as we come out of the Coronavirus Pandemic, which is a black swan event, just like what preceded the Renaissance, which was also when things became more evidence-based art, science, music, education, all of it became more evidence-based. That’s where we are. And we ought to embrace evidence-based goal setting theory because we are in a renaissance right now and the train has left the station and you better have a guidebook for all the evidence-based practices that we know make a difference in success.
AJV (34:24):
Hmm. And you know, I think that one of the most significant things of just like that was like an aha in my head is this idea. It’s like in order for you to set and achieve big goals, you have to be in a good place.
CM (34:36):
Yeah.
AJV (34:37):
You know, you gotta be in a healthy, happy state of mind of Yeah. You know, otherwise, you know, you know, and it’s like, it’s like before you even begin that venture, it’s like, Hey, do I have the right would? You said the seven, what did you call ’em? Positive,
CM (34:55):
Positive interventions. Interven.
AJV (34:57):
Yeah. Yeah.
CM (34:58):
And they’re, they, they tend to work for almost everybody depending on whether you’re an introvert or an extrovert or wherever you’re located. Some might work better for some people than others. Sometimes your first interaction with something like mindfulness or meditation, whether or not you fall in love with it and it has an impact on you predicts whether or not you’re gonna kind of continue to do it. But I have zest, that’s one of my top character strengths and I’m a master swimmer and I get up at 4 35, whatever it is, and I go swim with people. I like them. We work hard. And so by six 30 the hardest part of my day is over. Yeah. We know that rigorous exercise is positive intervention. And if you start your day with that, the rest of the day is a domino effect. It’s just easier. Everything’s easier. But you’ve booted up your chemicals, you’ve booted up all of the testosterone and all of the emotions and the oxytocin, everything you need for the day to be better, be better. The exercise, I think is the best way to start the day. Maybe meditation rivals it, but I haven’t done anything better than exercise.
AJV (36:02):
Yeah. I love that this came up because I literally, this morning at like 6:45 AM I was talking to my husband ’cause my business partner and he’s traveling, so I’m just, me and the kids are home. And I got up extra early to do like my devotional some reading. And and I had, that’s one thing that’s really important to me is my morning routine. And I always get up, I do my devotional, read the Bible I do some sort of like book that I’m reading and then I go on a very fast paced, rigorous walk and it’s about five minute I wear my weighted vest and it’s just kinda like, ah. And he’s been traveling a ton the last few weeks. And so I haven’t had the opportunity to get in my walk and I him this morning, literally this morning, I’m like, I’m in a funk because I’m not getting my morning walk. Yeah. And he would, it’s so funny you said that. I literally had the same thought and I was like, you thought wow funk because I’m not. He goes, yeah, I guess he goes, because I have noticed you’ve been a little off schedule. And I’m like, yes. I put two and two together literally this morning that I am off schedule with my walks and I am in it. Yeah,
CM (37:13):
Yeah. No, it’s true. And I’m so impressed with your routine. I just got waited best myself so I know what you’re doing and that’s impressive. But you found your routine and you intuitively, I’m telling you now, the research is matching what you’re doing. You’re booting up your wellbeing probably to the highest level of the level that you were born with. We all have a set point, so we have a range. So you’re probably getting about as high as you can get or at least close to it. And that wellbeing is the rocket fuel of success with goals. Yeah. And so to start the day that way and to feel better and to just have everything pumping in the right direction is the way I think most people should consider making at least one change to their lives. Because if you wanna succeed at your goals, start here. Yeah. Start with upping your flourishing. It’s like what are the ways to do it? It’s
AJV (38:02):
The pre-work, right? You gotta do the pre-work. Yeah. To be in the right place, to do the right things, to hit big goals.
CM (38:10):
I think so. I mean, at least that’s what the research shows. I, I am completely evidence-based. I really do believe that there’s so many opinions out there and I’m trying to kill off zombie goal approaches ’cause I can’t stand anymore. These, these approaches that won’t die like smart goals. That’s not science. In fact, it’s detrimental to have smart goals. ’cause When people use r for realistic, that’s a violation of goal setting theory. You don’t set realistic goals. Those are what’s called low goals. But there’s also something called jargon, mishmash syndrome. And smart goals falls prey to that because S-M-A-R-T means a lot of different things depending on where you are. The M and the R and the A can all mean slightly different things. So smart goals is in science, law of attraction definitely isn’t science. I’m sorry. But if you want it and you write it in lipstick, uhuh, it doesn’t work.
CM (39:08):
Now maybe a vision board is gonna prime you. That’s real science. A a vision board can make you think goal directed thoughts and everything that matches that thought can be sticky and could stick to you. But you got, you know what, we have one life, one life to go pursue our dreams and to make a really positive impact on the world with what we do and how we do it. Use goal setting theory and then add my bridge methodology on top because I’ve been testing it for 20 years. The only thing I have found that includes all of the science that really makes a difference on grit and resilience and mindset and motivation every in relationships and character, strengths and happiness. The only thing I’ve ever found and work it, learn it, work it. I have so many worksheets in this book so that people can practice.
CM (39:55):
But I think this is the most important book I’ve ever read. And I’ll say one more thing as a mother, because I I know you’re a mother. My children have all lost friends to suicide. And my husband and I didn’t lose any friends to suicide growing up. And I know that there’s suicide clusters and suicide contagion and we live in an anxious, depressed world. And it’s become harder for this generation to survive difficult times because they want things to pass so quickly. Now this is a real simplification, not all suicide, it’s because of this. But I really do believe that many of the people we’re familiar with who’ve taken their own lives. They had big dreams and they were hitting stumbling blocks. One young man, we know it was online gambling and he had lost money and he was hiding it from his family. And, and there’s shame. But if you have a big dream and you want to accomplish goals, there is a way to make those goals happen without just wishing for it and hoping for it and thinking you’re gonna have some quick get rich scheme come at you from YouTube, do the work because it pays off.
AJV (41:09):
You know, I personally cannot relate more to this message because it’s a testament of hard work actually makes you feel better.
CM (41:21):
Yeah. It does.
AJV (41:23):
It like a gen like when you know that you just laid it on the line regardless if you win or lose. Yeah. It’s like, man, I just laid and I it feels good. And part of what feels good is the amount of practice and preparation and learning. And that came through the process of regardless of what happened and you started this interview with this. And then I know we’ll wrap it up, but I thought it was so interesting because I was right before this like self-esteem generation and we didn’t get trophies for showing up. Like my, my dad’s an entrepreneur of alum, a lumber company and it was just very, to earn it right. It was like his dad was a genuine lumberjack and it was just a very hard work work culture and I’m so grateful for it. Yeah. But my kids are in this soccer league and this is so funny that this is coming up. So at this last Saturday, it was their final game of the season. Right. And he’s like, I have five and seven year olds, they’re littles. But at the end it’s all up to the coach’s discretion of like, does he hand out a little trophy or a little rib or anything? And on my five-year-Old’s team, the coach didn’t hand anything out.
CM (42:37):
Oh wow. And my Oh wow.
AJV (42:40):
My five-year-old said, mom, where’s our trophy? And I, he, he was looking at the other ones and I looked at my husband, I was like, they didn’t hand out it like a ribbon or a trophy. And we literally looked at each other and they’re like, well, did he win anything
CM (42:55):
? And we like, no, no. And
AJV (42:57):
It was like, we literally had, and my husband was like, you think we should like buy one off of Amazon? And I was like,
CM (43:01):
No. Oh my gosh, no.
AJV (43:03):
And it was like, we literally had this debate and we both had to like gut check ourselves of going, yeah, what does he need a Ruben for? What’s he gonna do with the trophy? And it, but it was like this like instinctual thing of like, what? And then we both like came to our senses and we’re like, no, he didn’t win anything. He played a five-year-old soccer league. No, we’re not, he usually
CM (43:23):
Has a mercy rule. They stop keeping score ’cause they don’t wanna hurt anyone’s feelings.
AJV (43:28):
That’s not the case with our kids. Our kids make us the scorekeeper. So we have to tell every ah,
CM (43:34):
Interesting
AJV (43:35):
12 to one .
CM (43:37):
Yeah.
AJV (43:37):
They, it was a really interesting thing. And we told our 5-year-old, I was like, Hey bud you know, they don’t technically keep score here. There is no champion. There is like no, like championship. And he goes, but we won. And I said, we did technically win, but . And it was like this amazing
CM (43:55):
Conversation
AJV (43:56):
To have with him. Interesting. And after at the three minute, like, well, you know, technically da da da da. And he was like, okay. And off he goes,
CM (44:05):
Ah. And it was like this, that’s a great story.
AJV (44:08):
And it was an aha moment to me and my, I’m like, the only reason it even came up to him is he saw it and as soon as he realized, oh, like there’s a process to how you win these. He has now asked us since Saturday, what do I have to do to win one of those trophies?
CM (44:24):
No way.
AJV (44:26):
Multiple times. And so now he’s got a goal. He wants a soccer trophy and we’re, we’re, we’re practicing out in our backyard. And, but it was an amazing revelation of if we had just given it to him, yeah. It would’ve destroyed this inner competition, this inner drive
CM (44:45):
Incentive incentive to work or something. And now
AJV (44:48):
What do I have to do to win one? I’m like, well, you have to be in a league that keeps score and you have to like try out. And he’s like, now he’s like, okay, okay, okay.
CM (44:57):
Wow. You know, it’s interesting because the research finds that even children who are given an award or a reward that they haven’t earned, they know and they devalue what they’re being given to. They know there was nothing that really went into it. And that’s what’s so fascinating to me. I have a a, a story very similar to yours where we joined a swim league and the team had gotten rid of the record board even though three Olympians had swam there in the seventies, eighties and nineties, and had gone on to win world championships in the Olympics. Seventh in the Olympics. One of them too. And we, we were like, what did you do with the record board? Well, we hit it. We hit it because the kids would be so discouraged if they saw how fast they’d been before. Well I, they made me the, a rep and I had the biggest record board ever made for summer swim teams made in Austin, Texas.
CM (45:52):
And it was sent to us in Bethesda, Maryland. And the, we invited these three very scary men back and we had this big party Breakfast of champions. And that record board is still the talk of the entire swim league, which has produced lots of Olympians. First thing kids do when they arrive at a swim meet is they go stand in front of the record board. ’cause Like your son, people long to know what does it take to be elite? Mm-Hmm . And they prize the work that goes into it. And we cannot rob ourselves or our children or other people of the process of getting there. And if we’re honest with them and we lay out the steps and you can measure that, you know, you’ve given people the keys to the kingdom and that’s what life’s all about.
AJV (46:38):
I mean, genuinely like just even having this conversation at the same timing of this like little soccer league wrap up has been also I think a really big testament. Not just to us who have teams and employees or just even us as an individual setting goals, but I would say specifically as a parent, it’s like, don’t rob your kids of hard work.
CM (47:01):
Yeah. No, it’s true
AJV (47:03):
Of hard work. Don’t try to make it easy for them. It’s like there is power and the grit and the perseverance and the resilience. How else do we learn that stuff,
CM (47:13):
Right? Well, you don’t, you can’t, you can’t buy it. You can’t chant it. It only comes this way. And the other thing is we have to show them that we are resilient when bad things happen to us, when we don’t get the job we want, when we’re fired, when you don’t get a book contract, when you get bad speech reviews, whatever it is, kids need to see that you too are resilient and that there’s mom and dad and they survived it. My gosh. You know, I bet I could survive not making the travel soccer team or whatever, not being the lead in the play or not getting an A on everything. That’s our responsibility as parents, even though you might as well take a knife and just plunge it right into my heart. Because watching your children not succeed or get what they want is heartbreaking. But to this day, my three adult children, the absolute best things that ever happened to them in life, in life that had the best outcomes were the worst things that happened to them. And you know what they survived and boy, what a lesson. Not even just to us, to them it made them all better. Men and women.
AJV (48:16):
Yeah. This is so good. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been so insightful and just chock full of day backed reasoning on importance of setting big goals. Big goals comes out November 27th. Yeah. Grab a copy at anywhere where you buy books check it out. But then also if you go to big goals book.com, if you pre-order the book, then you also receive a 20 a page PDF workbook to help you through this process. Yeah. So go to big goals book.com, get your copy. Comes out officially November 27th. Caroline, thank you so much for being on the show today. And y’all, thank you. You guys wanna connect with Caroline? Where should they follow you online? What’s the best platform?
CM (49:05):
I, I think LinkedIn. Linkedin, Caroline Adams, Miller. But I’m on Instagram and Facebook, you know, I have a social media team that keeps me active, but you know, and then my website, caroline miller.com.
AJV (49:18):
So I would just encourage go to your platform of choice. Go to caroline miller.com, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram pick your platform of choice, but grab a copy of big goals to help you have a life changing year next year. Thank you for being on the show. Everyone else, stay tuned for the recap episode and we will see you next time on the Influential Personal Brand.
CM (49:40):
Thank you.

Ep 545: When Enough Is Enough | Budget Besties Episode Recap

AJV (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help Mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well-known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started.
AJV (00:34):
How to know when enough is enough. I’m specifically talking about money here, and as we round out 2024, which is when I’m recording this and I look ahead to 2025, which I imagine many of you are, I think that’s a question that’s really timely. How much is enough? And when you think about it in the terms of money, I would encourage you to think about money not in terms of how much you make or, or how much you wanna keep, but it’s more of what do you wanna do with the money that you have? And I’m in a lot of different circles with friends, family, different business owners, entrepreneurs even just conversations in the Brand Builders Group community, and even just conversations with the team at Brand Builders Group. And I, I have never met anyone ever who has said, no, I, I don’t want to make more money.
AJV (01:35):
Now, they may admit I don’t need more money, but I have never actually heard anyone say, no, I don’t want to make more money. But I have also heard the following statements or sentiments simultaneously, which is, why do I always feel the need to make more? How do I know when enough is enough? And what ultimately is this magical number that would make me feel financially secure? And I think that’s a really good question for all of us. And one of the things that I have been spending a lot of time thinking about is, you know, I don’t think anyone is asking the question, how much am I spending? As much as we are asking how much do I want to be making, or how much do I think I need to be making? But spending and making a really big correlation. And I believe that for, for most of us now this is, this is in a very above the poverty line conversation here.
AJV (02:40):
I know that there are many people in poverty who are going, no, I need to make more money. This is not about spending. I cannot afford groceries. I am not speaking to that group of people in this particular conversation. That is a different need. That is a different conversation. But for the rest of everyone who specifically lives in the United States, right, you are already making more than the majority of the entire world just by living here. And the average salary in the United States is $48,000. If you’re making more than that, then you are already making more than the average American. If you make over six figures you are already making more than almost 50% of the average American. And yet we have this question of enoughness and making more. And have we actually ever stopped and asked ourselves, how much am I spending?
AJV (03:38):
And is that, is that an area I need more control over versus always the desire of more? And I don’t think wanting more is bad. Don’t hear what I’m not saying. There are many things that I think having more of is awesome. I think making more money is a good and powerful thing. I want to make more money. But I don’t want to ever be in a position that making more creates less time for my family. I never want making more money to pull me away from the work that God has me to do. I never want to be making more money so that I have no peace and no rest because I’ve said yes to every single thing in an effort of making more. And yet, I have no time for my husband, my children, myself, the the Lord. Friends, I think there’s, there’s exchanges here that we make.
AJV (04:31):
And sometimes I think the question should be is, am I spending too much? Versus am I, how do I make more? And this is not a conversation for everyone. It’s for a very specific person and a very specific season who is asking themselves, when is enough enough? And perhaps what you have is already enough, and it’s not about making more. But it could be about spending less. And it may not even be about spending less. It may just be more about spiritual contentness. It’s being content and at peace with what you have and what you’re making. Because my husband often says this peace is the new profit. More money isn’t going to necessarily fix the problems that we have. More money often creates more problems, right? Biggie small said it best. More money, more problems. And often the more that we make, the more that we just naturally spend there’s a natural lifestyle acclimation that occurs unintentionally and most of the time unaware where we naturally make more.
AJV (05:42):
And so we naturally spend more, thus always creating this desire, this intentional thought that we need to make more. And that’s not necessarily a true, it’s the byproduct of our spending went up. And regardless of how much you make percentage wise, it never feels like you have any leftover. And a part of this is in conjunction with the end of the year, the beginning of the year, and a recent conversation that we had on the podcast with the budget besties who have a financial podcast for women. We can listen to it wherever you listen to your podcast. But it was a really great conversation about awareness, about it’s not often I need to make more conversation. It’s often, do you even know where you’re spending? And are you overspending? Which creates this discontent to make you think you need to make more?
AJV (06:38):
And is it really a spending conversation versus a money conversation? And a lot of that comes down to this B word, right, called a budget. It’s like, do you actually subscribe to living on a budget where there is a designated pile of money that you have for the necessities of your life? IE the bills that you have? Then do you set aside the amounts for spending or savings or whatever it may be? But those are intentional decision decisions of going, I can be content with whatever I have in any situation. And it’s not always a chase for more. Again, not saying that more is bad, it’s just at what cost. It’s just at what cost. And I wanna reiterate, I want more. I want more for our team and for our clients, but not at the cost of peace and joy and time and health and family and friends.
AJV (07:41):
And then it’s an exchange of you can actually have more by simply deciding to spend less. That’s an exchange of going when it, it, it depends on what you want more of. I also believe in the concept of Die with Zero. I believe that when, you know, I go to the grave, I don’t want anything left over. I wanna see the fruits of my labor, labor put to work and whatever I choose to invest it into. But I think these are decisions of going like, how are we using and investing the money that we make in a way that brings more peace not just more dollars in a banking account, because that ain’t going with you. And it’s not that you shouldn’t have reserve savings, you should have emergency funds. I believe in all of those things. And also, this is the decision of going, I’m the, I am the authority.
AJV (08:32):
I am the authority over money in my life. Money is not the authority over me. Money does not dictate the decisions I make. I dictate the decisions and then choose how to use the money I have. And many of us will make financial decisions that will take up 60% of the waking hours of our life. That’s called a job . That’s called a career u Most Americans, if you work 40 hours a week many of you will work more. But if you work 40 hours a week with the standard American two week vacation, then you will spend 60% of your waking hours at work. Do you love it? Do you love your team? Do you love what you do? Do you love the work? Do you love your clients? Do you love your employer? Do you love your employees because you’re spending 60% of your time with them pre-retirement?
AJV (09:30):
You better ? Like, what’s all this work? Right? And I think those are the exchanges. Like, what if you were making a ton of money and loved all of that? It’s great, but what if you were making a ton of money and were miserable? What if you were not making a ton of money but loved your work and were happy? It’s like, are those exchanges that we’re willing to make? And I think all of that really comes down to it’s like, what do you want? And I don’t mean things I’m not saying this is the, you know, American Dream two story house or the picket fence, right? A dog and 2.5 kids or whatever it is. I’m not saying that it’s like, I’m not talking about things. I’m talking about, like, do you want extra time? Do you want more peace? Do you want less stress?
AJV (10:14):
Do you want better relationships? Do you want better health? Like, what are the things that you really want? And then what are you doing to get those things? And I cannot say this enough, but I’m gonna say it one more time. Making more money is not a bad thing. It’s a good thing. It’s a necessary thing. It’s about what we do with that money and how we let it rule over our hearts. That can be a bad thing, not always, but sometimes it’s just, are you in control or is in, is it in control of you? Is it forcing you to make decisions that are out of alignment with who you are and what you want? And I think that is a question of when is enough enough? And I think all of us have to come to terms with do I really need more money or do I need something else, right? Do I need more purpose, more fulfillment, more time, more peace? And can I get that without stretching and forcing this money conversation by simply choosing to potentially spend less? So when is enough enough.

Ep 544: Keeping More of the Money You Make with the Budget Besties

AJV (00:01):
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. It’s AJ Vaden here, and I’m about to introduce you to two of the most joyful and outgoing and entertaining but also financially prudent and savvy women that I’ve come in contact with in a long time. And they call themselves the budget besties, but know Shayna and Vanessa are their names. And I want to kind of give you a little bit of heads up of what this interview is about, which I always do , so that you know if this is an episode for you. So if you’re listening and you’re deciding whether or not you should stick around, then I would ask myself a couple of these questions. One, do I want to have more money? Hmm. If you answered yes, maybe this is the episode for you. Would you like to keep more money that you make?
AJV (00:55):
The answer is yes. This might be an episode for you. Would you have like to have less debt, more spending power, less financial pe or more financial peace and less financial stress? If you answered yes to any of those, then this is likely an episode around money, specifically budgeting that will help you have a better and more successful financial path moving forward. And so, as we’re rounding out the year and looking forward to how can we best prepare our audience to have an awesome next year, I thought having the budget besties on the show would be so helpful and powerful for you guys. So let me give them a quick formal introduction, and then we’re gonna get right to the heart of this interview. So, Shayna and Vanessa are best friends and business partners on a mission to help take the shame out of the money conversation. They are master, master financial coaches and also co-hosts of one of the top rated, top 1% actually range podcast financial coaching for women. Now, we’re not gonna talk about financials just for women today, but if you happen to be of the female six, then check out their podcast because it’s gonna talk about really unique tailored budgeting best practices, philosophies, and principles for women. But today we’re gonna talk about it from men and women, both Shane and Vanessa. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having
SR (02:22):
Us. Yes. Thank you for having us. We’re so excited to talk about the B word
AJV (02:26):
. Y’all, I first of all love you and it’s really an honor to get to have BBG clients on the show every so often because we already inherently know you and your brand and what your heart is really all about. But one of the things that I like to do when we’re introducing you to the larger audience is help them get to know you. So, out of all of the topics in the world that you guys could have paired up to talk about as best friends as women, why money? Why budgets?
VP (02:59):
You know, I think that we are both financially wired in a way, and I will tell you that I, this whole thing, the reason why we came together, it’s a, it’s a total God story. Yeah. Right. So we met at the YMCA, our boys were four years old,
SR (03:12):
They’re now 16. I know. So just pause for a moment and do the math there, . I know.
VP (03:17):
And we were, we worked out together and I was going, I just started going to a church and Shayna needed a new church. And so that next week she came with me and within two weeks we were starting to lead a community group together. Yeah. If that tells you about our friendship.
SR (03:32):
Yeah. So yeah, we signed up for this church and within two weeks we’re leading a community group together that kind of gives you the idea of our friendship and the level of intensity in which we do
VP (03:40):
Anything in difference. Yeah.
SR (03:41):
And so, you know, we did life together as moms, our boys. Like I said, like she said, they were four, now they’re 16 and we’re still doing life together. But it all started AJ with a little book that I know that you are familiar with called The Total Total Money Makeover. Mm-Hmm. . And I picked it up, read it, gave it to my husband, he read it, he said we already do this. And I was like, ah, okay, babe, if you’re sure. And I gave it to Vanessa, and you know, she took it and ran with it.
VP (04:07):
Yeah. So I honestly, it’s, it’s hard for me to stay tuned into a book. I read this book in a week. I loved it. I loved the concept of it. My, we were actually going to Portugal. We took the kids and we went for three months to Portugal. My husband came out to
SR (04:20):
Live with her grandmother.
VP (04:21):
Yeah. So my grandmother, I’m half Portuguese, she was out there for six months and she said, bring the kids. And I said, can I do that? And she said, yeah. So I told my husband, I said, babe, I’m gonna go though. I went for three months and really found out what was really important to my family, our morals, values. We loved that simple life. I really, really enjoyed the simplicity of living in a small house and enjoying family and only having what we needed and going to pick the fresh vegetables and everything. So anyways you know, we came back, sold the big house, sold all the stuff that we didn’t need. We bought a smaller house, downsized. And after buying that house in three years, so I was 31 and mortgage free. And debt free. And I realized that that to me was a goal. I wanted to be able to own our house. I wanted to be able to have things that were ours and we didn’t want to live like the Joneses anymore. Like we had our own way of living now. Yeah.
SR (05:07):
And so we were, we were still friends, but we are military, so we were about to move away from Florida, which is where we’re back now. And I was able to through my own I was a stay-at-home mom primarily, but I also had a, you know, side hustle as, as we all did at some point, it seems like. And I was able to cashflow a trip to Disney World for my family, pay for it in cash, which was the first family vacation that we had taken. Military families. You get famously, you get to go home, that’s your vacation every single time, . So it was like this really mind blowing experience for us. And we drove to Disney World, listening to Dave Ramsey and drove home listening to Dave Ramsey, my husband and I when he got home, he had sold his car within a couple, a couple days, and we were debt free. And so we then started teaching FPU, and that’s when with, with what I was already doing, I added financial coach training to the mix with my husband. We both took it. And that’s when Vanessa was having a little, a little moment herself.
VP (06:03):
. Yeah. So I was really in a, I was in a dark place for a couple years with my job, my current job. I knew it was a job. It was a means to an end. I knew I was in this job because it was easy and worked around my kids’ schedule and my husband worked a lot. And so I needed a way to make money, but it also needed to make sure that I could pick up the kids to and from school and everything. And so when God really led me to paying off my mortgage, he told me that that was gonna happen. He said, you’re gonna start your business mortgage free and debt free. I remember laughing and going, that’s cute. Not really sure how you do that. I was 28 at the time. And so, anyways, I remember when after I did the thing, I was walking around my house with my palms up going, okay, God, a plus student here. I did the thing, what’s next? And he said, oh, you’re gonna show other people how to do that. And within that week. And I said, how, and within that week, Shayna had messaged me and she said, I’m moving back home. I want you to get your financial coaching certification and we’re gonna do this thing together. Wow. And so that was that. When we say that our business was literally led by God, it truly was.
SR (06:54):
Yeah. And, and just real quick, ’cause I know we’ve been talking for about 30 minutes already. It just reminds me of your story with Lewis, how he called, you know, right after that happened with you guys. And it was just that, and that’s what we need as well. We need, God, we need neon flashing signs. Otherwise we may not do be be as keen to understand what, what you have for us. And praise God, he had it for us in that moment, and we’ve been going ever since. Yeah.
AJV (07:16):
You know, what I love about it is we don’t talk a lot about publicly, like the brand positioning statement of brand builders group, but if this is new to any of you listening, it’s like we talk about brand positioning statements at brand Builders group with our clients and our members, which Shayna and Vanessa are, and we talk about you know, the, the core of any personal brand is to determine what problem you solve for the world. What’s the cause of that problem? What message do you have, which is the solution to that problem? How do you uniquely solve that in a way only you can, which is your uniqueness? What are the payoffs to solving it? And that’s kind of your brand positioning statement. And what I love what you guys just said is at the heart of the center of what we build our entire company on, which is very simple. It’s not sexy but it’s very simple and it’s teach what you know. Mm-Hmm. . And how do you do that? Will you simply teach what you have done to the person that you once were?
SR (08:13):
Yeah.
VP (08:13):
And
AJV (08:14):
Well, any great business is a result of, you did something, it changed your life, and now you wanna help other people do the same thing.
SR (08:22):
Yep.
VP (08:22):
Right?
SR (08:23):
Yeah. And you guys always say you’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. We once were those people. And and you know, we’ve had great mentorship and we’ve been able, we’ve been doing this now for long enough that we’ve been able to kind of take our, to build our own system and, and build our own like you said, best practices. Yeah. But, but for sure we are now helping who we are people who make good money, but have nothing to show for it
VP (08:46):
. Yeah. Well, and when we first started, Shane and I were both individually doing finances in a way that were the exact same, but we had no idea. And when we brought our business together, we realized, oh my gosh, we have a whole system here, and this is what we’re teaching our clients. And that has been the most amazing transformation to watch what, like you said, what we use in our own personal lives separately didn’t know until we came together. And now we’re showing other people and it’s working, and we’re watching it work and watching it change their lives. And it’s really rewarding.
AJV (09:15):
Well, I love that. And I wanna talk about that. And I have to tell you, like we, we did a total money makeover before we got married. Our commitment to each other is that we would not get married and until we could enter our marriage completely debt free, so that we, we were starting from, you know, ground zero clean slate. And so we did the envelopes for almost two years until we both paid off all of our debt and then got married without any debt and entered. And that’s how we started our marriage. Mm-Hmm. was, it’s like, all right, let’s figure out, let’s figure out this money thing. And so let’s talk about the budget. So and just money in general, like what, what causes people to make good money, but yet have nothing to show for it?
SR (10:00):
Well, it reminds us of a story. So let’s you know, you know, brand builders, Rory, you guys say a lot. Diluted focus equals diluted results. Mm-Hmm. Well, when we started our business, as we said, we’re not, we weren’t a hundred percent in tune with what God had for us, apparently, because we had a, a side business to our financial coaching, and we were, we were teaching fitness classes, aj, which obviously is the same thing. Okay. Yeah. So if you can imagine, we’re up there teaching fitness classes in our facility, and then the students are out there looking at us following every move. Right?
VP (10:29):
Yeah. So we were you know, we’re at the front of the class, we’re looking out, and all of a sudden I see a roach. Okay. A big fat Florida roach crawling across the floor, like almost robotic, but its big old arms, and it’s approaching one of our clients. And I gradually, like, continue to let Shana teach, and I just walked out.
SR (10:48):
We’re all on Upward Dog. Yes. Nobody can see .
VP (10:51):
Yeah. And I got up quietly, grabbed an extra mat, put it over the roach, and slid it all the way across the room so nobody could see it.
SR (11:00):
Yeah. And, and what what we’ve learned is that that’s kind of how people treat their finances. Mm-Hmm. , you know, they just wanna sweep it under the rug. It’s kind of this, this thing that if we can just put it, put it over here, move it, move it outta the way, we won’t look at it. If we don’t look at it, it’s probably not a problem. Right. And that’s how people end up with making good money and having nothing to show for it. What, what we know is they get to this point, they’re doing so well in their career, they’re, they’re making more money than they ever have, and yet somehow they still feel like they’re living paycheck to paycheck.
VP (11:27):
Yeah. You know, a lot of times they’re,
AJV (11:29):
I wanna touch on that for just a second. Yeah. Because you said an important word there, they feel
VP (11:33):
Yep.
AJV (11:34):
Mm-Hmm. . So how many of it, how much of this is our emotional relationship to money and what we think we should be making, what we think we should have versus reality? Because I’m sure it’s both, but I think that feeling has a lot to do with this. I’m just curious to hear what y’all
VP (11:53):
Have. No, absolutely. Because when we first started this, we were trying to find our words. What is, what is actually happening with people when we realize is they have a lot of money. They’re not, they don’t need to live paycheck to paycheck, but it feels that way because their money, they’re not being good stewards of their money, not on purpose, but just because their money is coming in and it’s going out as fast as it is, you know, as fast as it’s coming in. Because there is no rhyme or reason to how they’re spinning. They, it’s not organized. Everything is convoluted into one account. It’s very overwhelming as to what’s happening. And they’re sticking their head in the sand and just not paying attention to it. Yeah. And
SR (12:26):
That’s really, that’s really you know, we’ve all heard of lifestyle creep, and so you have, you know, lifestyle creep as you’re spending, or your money increases, so do your, so does your spending. But what we’ve learned, AJ is recently it’s been a lot with people coming on our podcast. It’s, I still have the 18-year-old budgeting system that I was using. That’s really what it is. Like, I may be making six figures or, or seven figures, but I’m still operating as my 18-year-old, whatever I did then for my finances. ’cause I, you know, I’ve been busy. I haven’t had time to learn. And so that’s hopefully where we come in is we can, we can give you some systems Mm-Hmm. to, to use in your budget. Just like you would in any other, you know, motherhood or anything else that you’ve tried to level up your life and, and get to the next level. But truly, they’re just, they’re, you know, like Vanessa said, head in the sand if I just ignore it. And that’s, that is the, the feeling that we’re, that they’re trying to, to not face the music, to not face the overwhelm. But,
VP (13:17):
But, but they, they don’t know what they don’t know. So, like Shana said, they’re sticking in this 18-year-old mindset of one checking account, one one way of doing stuff, because that’s the first way that they were taught. The only way they were taught. They’ve never been taught a new way, which is, you know, nothing wrong with them. It’s just and we’ve not sought out a different way. Right, right.
SR (13:35):
Well, and, and honestly, people feel paralyzed a little bit. So if they do go to seek it out, they get, imagine being our age, which is very young. We’re very young. All of us are very young. Ej It’s fine. And, and being told, you know, just, you know, intensely do nothing but pay off debt. That’s really hard when you have kids and you have all of us.
AJV (13:56):
And very fun. It
SR (13:57):
Not, it’s not fun. It’s not very fun. And, and it’s, it’s, it’s paralyzes people a little bit. Right? Mm-Hmm. So what we wanna do is explain it maybe in a little bit different way so that you can, you know, be a good steward, like Vanessa said, but also let’s, let’s fund some of these fun things. Mm-Hmm. You know, we, honestly, honestly, we’re a little bougie. We wanna be bougie, but we wanna be on a budget. Okay. And we believe you can do both. Yeah. And
VP (14:19):
You know, we love Dave Ramsey, but we used his system first with our clients, and then we found our own system. Mm-Hmm. . And it really was based on their response from our clients. Mm-Hmm. like when, as we formed our business. And as things evolved over time, it was like, oh, this is really what they want. This is what, this is the lifestyle that our clients want. And so we designed a budget system specifically around that and it’s tailored to each individual person based on their lifestyle goals. Because what we’ve realized is that, hey, you can have your pumpkin, pumpkin, spice lattes and pay off debt. Yeah. Hey, you can maybe cut back on the subscriptions that you don’t even log into anyways. And then also go on travel. Right. Go save for vacation. And different things like that.
AJV (14:59):
And I think those are a couple of things that I think are really good to kind of talk about. So what are some of the biggest pitfalls, traps, mistakes, whatever we wanna call ’em, I’m gonna call ’em mistakes. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you guys see with people managing their money? And what are some things we can do to avoid those next year and forevermore?
SR (15:22):
Well, there’s, there’s one really, really big one. And this is what every, there’s a lot we can go into a lot especially when it comes to relationships and there’s so many different things. But the big one really, honestly, AJ is having one account. So imagine you have one account and it’s trying to track and you’re trying and do a mental math, which hello, I’m not even good at real math, like with a calculator, let alone with just trying to do it in my head. But you’re trying to mental math, whether did the rent get paid my phone bill, but also I need to go to Target. But also the kids are wanting to stop by Chick-fil-A, but all oh, field trip dues are, are tomorrow. Like you’re trying to do all this mental math with one account,
VP (15:54):
And then also at the same time you’re at the grocery store trying to figure out is there enough in there because what’s been pulled and what hasn’t. Right. Yeah.
SR (15:59):
‘Cause The bill’s still gonna get paid. And so you’re trying to do all of this math. So that is one, one mistake. And when we say the 18-year-old system, that’s kind of what it is. You thought, well, I went to the bank and I opened my account. And that’s how it is. Well, we are in this digital age, ladies and gentlemen, so you can have more than one checking account. And so what we teach is let’s separate all of that. Let’s separate and have a Bills account, let’s separate and have spending account, let’s separate and have savings. And we can make all of that automatic, but really truly organizing it and separating it into, like you alluded that you and Rory did when you guys were were, you know, engaged, you had your cash envelopes. We can kind of put that exact same system into your bank and then you can very clearly know what’s going on. And that really does take away some of the stress and the mental math in the mo in the moment.
AJV (16:44):
Yeah.
VP (16:44):
That’s really helpful.
AJV (16:47):
I have a, I have a question. It’s like, why don’t people do that? Is it just ’cause they don’t know that they can’t?
SR (16:54):
Yes.
VP (16:55):
Yeah. That it’s honestly, when we tell people, Hey, open up a second checking account, they’re like, what do you mean? And we’re like, I mean, you can, you can do that. The thing is, is that they’re so used to just having, you know, when you go to a bank, they tell you to open one checking and one savings, and that’s just how you end up operating unknowingly. That you can have a whole different system available to you if you just ask. Right. If all the what is it, what’s the saying? All the answers to the questions you don’t ask, it’s always no. Mm-Hmm. . So if you just ask and shop around, a lot of people are also at banks that they think they have to bank with, but there’s a bank out there that’s gonna do what you wanna do. And remember, you’re in charge, not them. ’cause You’re, they’re actually working for you when you’re going to hire a bank to do a job. So the idea of having multiple accounts to be able to assign them to do different jobs is mind blowing.
AJV (17:40):
Yeah. Then, so, okay, here’s a technical question for everyone listening. So then let’s just say I, I just, I jotted down four. There’s a Bills account. We would, we would call it a household account, but Bills account, a spending account, a savings account, and then I stuck one called taxes. So let’s just pretend that we had four accounts, right? So when you get paid is it a manual I’m gonna take in my weekly paycheck and you know, this much goes here, this much goes here? Or are you guys suggesting that you have auto amounts going to different places? Or what, what are some of like the tactical best practices of managing? Yes. Because that takes a kind of organized Truman.
SR (18:22):
Well, well first of all, the, the biggest mistake is manually managing your accounts. The more you’re in it, the, you know, the more we tend to mess it up. No, love us. Right? It’s kinda like me in the kitchen. It’s fine. But the, the thing that we find is that you want to separate all of those accounts. Yeah. And
VP (18:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what what you wanna do is have all of your income come into your, your bills account. So that first, the main account that you have is your bills account. Yeah. And so all of your income, every source of income that’s coming in is coming into one main account. And you only keep in there what’s enough to pay for all of your bills and all of your debt payments. And then from there you automatically are funding Yeah. Funding the other accounts. Yeah.
SR (19:05):
Well, because the, the mistake that you, that you were alluding to that people do is they try to live paycheck. They try to assign paycheck to a specific paycheck to specific jobs. What we want you to do is let’s take a bird’s eye view, a monthly view of what your money can actually do in a month. And that’s from that bird’s eye view. Then we can start to manipulate each paycheck. But what we want, what we love AJ, is to take the rollercoaster ride out of this paycheck to paycheck, this feast or famine. You know, we have people say, well this is this, this, check the rent’s due. So we don’t really have a lot for groceries or, you know, whatever. So stuff like that. And we’re
VP (19:36):
Telling you can actually eat four weeks out of the month, aj, it’s fantastic.
SR (19:40):
. And so we do, we do want it to be very, even very smooth. And there’s a couple other things that this system solves you. One, you always know when you need to spend money, you always know where it’s coming from and that you have it. Right. That is that, I mean, we do talk to women a lot, but that is such a,
VP (19:57):
So much weight off the shoulders.
SR (19:58):
Yes. Especially as mom, they’re, they’re coming at you from every angle with something. And then so we really wanna be able to solve that problem. The other thing that you talked about, taxes. So that’s, we’re gonna separate. We, we really want you to separate your business and your personal and we would have you automate setting aside taxes. Mm-Hmm. on your business side. That way that’s always taken care of. ’cause That’s another monkey on your back that you don’t want to have. But really these accounts, it’s, it’s making it easily organized. It’s making it we even try to make it fun. Like we have clients rename their accounts.
VP (20:29):
That’s the best part that you can rename all your accounts. Yeah.
SR (20:31):
And you know what, so you have boys, we have daughters. If you have an account that says, you know, Melanie’s wedding, you are so much less likely to steal money from that for you to go to go to Target or whatever, go shopping. And so and so you can rename it. We have people say, my name is no when it comes to their savings account, like all kinds of
VP (20:50):
Fun things don’t touch this. Like, right.
SR (20:51):
Yeah. And so, and, and then the real thing is like when you log into your own bank app, you don’t need a special app. You can see all of this money Mm-Hmm. organized, you know exactly what’s going on all the time. I
VP (21:02):
Think that’s the other part of it is people believe or they have this notion that they need a separate app, some third party device or thing that’s gonna help them track all their money. And what, what we like to say is let your bank to be your personal assistant. Let your bank app do the work for you and you can set it up automatically. We teach them this system to where, like you said, the money comes in and then the money all goes out. And it’s all based on what your budget is telling you you’re allotted for those different accounts. But then once it’s set up, right, do something today that’s gonna make tomorrow easier. Once you can set it up, take the time to do that, you’re, you step back and it’s so nice that not have to worry about that. You know, for instance, for an example, my husband gets paid every Wednesday afternoon. So Thursday morning all my transfers happen. Mm-Hmm. . And I didn’t do anything. It just automatically happened based on what my budget said.
SR (21:48):
And you have money for groceries every week. It’s so amazing. .
AJV (21:51):
Yeah. And, and I love, and I love adding some of the funness to it of like, you know, you know, give it personality, but also give it purpose. Right? Mm-Hmm. it’s like, Hey, if I said this was for savings, it’s for, you know, something better words than savings. Right. That just kind of feels account that I can pull from kind of when I want to. But it’s like, no, what’s it, what’s it really for? Right. Yeah. Like, what are we, you know, and I love, you know, it’s like, well, I’m not gonna steal from a daughter’s wedding to go shopping. So, you know, I think those things are really have the, create those emotional attachments. Now there’s something that you just said, Vanessa, that I wanna kind of touch on, which is you said, you know, once you have your budget, you kind of know what stays in this account. How many people come to you guys and have never made a budget.
VP (22:39):
A lot. A lot. And we’ve also had people who have made a budget, but then they don’t know what to do with it. And that’s, I think that’s where we, where we feel bad because we have tried to use other people’s budgets for our business. And we first came to to, together we tried to find a budget that would help people you know, see if we can partner with somebody to use their budget that they’ve already created. And the reality is that there was not one out there that made sense to us. Mm-Hmm. that actually told you what to do with your hands. That literally was just words and numbers on paper. So even people that have made a budget, they’ll show us like this literally, or written, don’t paper know what they’re on. Yeah. Right. And they don’t know what’s, they don’t know what to do with it after they’re done with writing words and numbers on paper. And so, really, and the
AJV (23:20):
Reason I ask, the reason I ask is I was sitting here thinking, how many people actually make budgets?
VP (23:29):
Well,
SR (23:29):
It’s the B word for a reason. Right? Right.
VP (23:30):
It’s taboo.
AJV (23:31):
It’s so, so, okay, so here’s my question for you guys. How do you make a budget? Like, if we’ve got people listening today that are going, well, I thought budgets were people who, for people who didn’t make enough money or I felt budgets or something that you, you, you know, do only when you’re this. And it’s like, if you’re sitting there listening to this going, I I don’t actually have a family budget. I actually don’t have a budget for how I spend my money. What would be a couple of first steps for everyone to do if we’re, if we’re trying to get a financial grasp on how are we going to better steward the money we have? I I do think budgets are helpful and necessary even if you choose not to follow it. It’s like visibility, awareness is step one is awareness. Right? Yeah. So what, what do we do? Like, what’s step? Well,
SR (24:19):
I think, I think the first thing to think is, is to understand that the perception of a budget is that it’s restrictive. Yeah. And I don’t wanna do it. It’s a chore. But what we are going to do is we’re going to let, is show you how it gives you freedom. Freedom to spend and freedom to live the life that you wanna live, to be, you know, bougie on a budget as we say. But, and it’s a very simple process to make a budget. But I think going back to, you know, when you were talking about you and Rory as young people, it’s really about being intentional. Like I, yes, you make good money, but do you, are you really proud? Are you, are you, are you certain about where what it’s doing and where it’s going? Or and is it
VP (24:53):
Serving
SR (24:53):
You well? Yeah. Or is it serving future you? Well, so we can be really intentional and really fun, but what Vanessa was alluding to is we saw these budgets with variable fixed and blah. And where everybody’s like, but what, so what do I do with my hands? Okay. So what you do is you have your income. That’s what you start with. It’s very exciting, aj. It’s the best number. Everybody’s like, woo woo income. So we like to start with the income. Okay. And then next we like to li list out our debt payments. Okay. So we’re trying to do this, you could do this in 10 minutes. Yeah. Rough draft. Be okay with the, you know, b plus work. Let out your list out your debt minimums, because that is what you’re minimally gonna need to pay every month. Mm-Hmm. . Right? Our next list is our bills. We’re gonna list out our bills. And this is actually really eye opening for people. Like Vanessa said they start to see how many subscriptions do, do I listen to that much music actually, or you know, and, and start to see all of it on one paper. And when, when you had said about I make good money, that’s the budgets are for people who don’t. No, actually you need to get a good glimpse of where your money’s going. And that can be really eye-opening. So, you know, so the bills is the next one. Yeah.
VP (25:54):
So after you list it out,
AJV (25:55):
Can I pause there for a second? I have a question for you guys. This is back to a tactical question. How do you even do that? Like to, like, how do you even list out all of the bills? ’cause I think a lot of people are set it and forget it and sometimes there’s annual subscription payments that come out. And it’s like, are you are, how, how do you even do that for a very, for the person who’s going to, I actually, I want to do this. Mm-Hmm. . It’s like, how do you even know what you’re spending money on?
VP (26:24):
Well, we like to tell people to do a 90 day audit. So a 90 day audit, it’s gonna have you gather all the information that you need to be able to make this. Now we understand there’s quarterly bills, there’s annual bills, like we get that. But if, let’s just start with the monthly stuff first. What are you getting charged for monthly? And sometimes they’re on four different credit cards. Sometimes they’re in one account. Mm-Hmm. . So really the the idea here is to gather your information to know what are you spending your money on. And we wanna list all of those out. Yeah. Now a bill is something that you are getting charged for every month. So some people will try to list their subscriptions that are spending like, well, I’m just spending money over there. Like, no, no, no. You’re, that is something that’s coming in that you’re getting invoiced for, that you’re getting a receipt for. That is a bill. So that’s what you wanna, you know, you start with your income minus your minimum debt payments minus your bills.
SR (27:10):
Well, and what’s really funny is we, we do work with primarily people who make good money and they don’t necessarily need to cut their bills. That’s not usually the problem. It’s more spending. Yeah. But once they see everything listed out, aj and like you said, it’s just set it and forget it. Well, 7 30, 45, 99 over, like, once you start to see it, you’re like, oh, let me, let me go ahead and take a little ownership over this. Mm-Hmm. and, and clean it up a little bit. And that’s really the goal there is you, it’s not, it’s not about whether you have a gym membership and a Netflix membership and this and that. It’s about whether that is actually aligning with what you want your money doing for you.
AJV (27:44):
Yeah. And there’s
VP (27:44):
No shame on, like, we’ve had people that fill up every single line in our budget with their subscriptions and all their everything there. That’s fine. We don’t, that’s, there’s no shame in that. We want you to be able to live a life that you can afford. But that’s the thing is can you afford it? And sometimes you don’t know the answer to that because you haven’t listed it on paper to even see if it’s possible.
AJV (28:00):
I was in a conversation with my husband, Rory a couple of weeks ago about all these miscellaneous charges. ’cause We have a household bookkeeper that’s something that we’ve chosen to invest our money into because both of us are like, we’re not very good at monitoring this and we need someone to help us. And I, a couple months earlier I had seen those and I had gone in and made sure like, well, we don’t use that. We’ve outgrown that. Or we don’t, we, we hired, you know, a full-time nanny. We don’t need the babysitter app anymore. And so I had canceled all these, but they kept coming. Mm-Hmm. And I was like, I was like about to like dispute all these charges with a credit card. Like, I was like furious. I was like, I canceled all these, y’all, both of us had them on two separate cards, two separate account names. And not only were we paying for stuff not being used, neither of us had known the other person had also signed up and subscribed to it. So I think part of the reason you’re not was asking is like, man, you don’t even know where your money is going sometimes unless you’re doing these types of audits. And I had canceled in this particular with like a care.com, but he had signed up for one and we were both paying for the same thing. Gum app that we’re both of them not being utilized.
VP (29:15):
Right. It happens a lot. Yeah. We see that a lot. We, I even had a lady who was paying for an auto insurance on a card that she no longer owned for like a year. And she, we couldn’t, she wouldn’t, you know, I don’t have access to their bank accounts, but she was like, something’s not adding up as a girl. We have to figure this out. Sure enough, it was an insurance payment. Yeah.
AJV (29:34):
And, and so I think that’s why I ask, because I think that’s so important. It’s like, even if you go, oh yeah, I’m gonna keep all those, it’s just, just awareness. Yeah. It’s just awareness of like, where’s your money going? And that was just like a recent story that happened to us. And I’m like, ah, that is so ridiculous. It’s awareness. We had that So ridiculous. Yeah. Didn’t even know. It is.
SR (29:55):
Yeah. It is awareness. And that’s like what we were talking about sweeping, sweeping the under the rug usually. And I you said you that you guys have a bookkeeper because you’re not good at math. Which I would not agree with. But anyway. Yeah. I thought I was gonna, you were gonna say ’cause you’re too busy. Yeah. Like you guys are a lot busy. You have full lives. And do I wanna spend amount, amount enough time on, on my budget?
AJV (30:14):
Absolutely. Managing it.
SR (30:15):
Oh, managing. That’s what was, sorry. Yeah. She’s like, excuse me. I’m very good. CEO good at math. I don’t like math, but really, but who has, who has the time? And really we do try to solve that, right. And make this a very hands off, very easy system so that you, so, so that we all can spend time on, on more fun things than budgeting. But it is, it does happen more often than you think. And that’s really what, like you said, it’s just awareness. Let’s just look at this once in a while and make sure that everything that we’re spending our money on is what we wanna be spending our money on. Well,
VP (30:42):
In the old days, you think about, there were check registries, people were, they’re tracking transactions. There’s apps that are trying to help you do that. And you’re, that is so time consuming. Nobody has the time. We’re very busy. We have a lot, we have wonderful lives that we’re very excited about. They’re very full that we want to do. We wanna spend our time doing other things with our kids and at their events at work. Nobody has time to sit there and track your finances. So, like Shana said, the way that we have it set up for you is an automatic system that if you just take the time one afternoon to be able to do, it’s a basically a set it and forget it. Remember that George Foreman a long time ago, that I didn’t forget it. That’s basically what it does for you. And it allows you time back, the freedom back to not have to track or account any of your stuff.
SR (31:24):
And if you can imagine the Bills account, so what, what we said is if you have one checking account right now, you have hundreds of transactions, like literally every, every Chick-fil-A every, you know, soccer due from YMC or whatever, everything is in there. If you switch it to what we’re talking about having a Bills account, you would’ve found those much easier because there’s only so many bills transactions happening. And you can really, you can clearly isolate that and without a lot of time and you’ll be able to see it. So then, but okay, so to recap, we were talking about income. Yay. Fun number, excited. Everybody’s having a good time immediately to kind of the worst number, which is debt minimums, which the Vaden didn’t have when they got married. Congratulations. And then we’re going to the bills, right? But then after that is the,
VP (32:02):
The most fun.
SR (32:03):
That’s when we’re getting, we’re getting, we’re finally here where we get to spend money. It’s very exciting. This
VP (32:07):
Is where you live in your budget, right? Yeah.
SR (32:08):
And so this is really what, what differentiated us when we, when we made our, our budget. When you spend money, this is when you’re swiping. When you’re either going to the grocery store, you’re going to the restaurant, you’re going even if you’re paying for a babysitter, all of this stuff that you’re spending, it’s not a bill, but it’s over here. It’s discretionary. It’s different every month maybe. And that’s what we really wanna put over there in that column. And we will add, you know, with, when you use the audit that we talked about, that’s when it can get a little ugly. We’ve had clients come in and say, well, I did what you told me and I wanted to throw up, up. So thank you for that. Because they were spending so much money on restaurants. Imagine, you know, $4,000 a month on, on restaurants. If you have a goal to get out of debt, seen it, you have a goal to travel. Like, you know, it’s just not in alignment. And that’s what, like you said before, awareness. It’s what it’s really about.
VP (32:54):
Yeah. So the idea with this spending account is really just allow you to see how much money you’re spending. And so there’s two questions here. What am I spending my money on and what do I wanna be spending my money on? Mm-Hmm. . And then once you decide what your budget allows, then you can designate a certain amount of money to be transferred into that spending account from your built account each paycheck. So it allows you the right amount of money with some guardrails. Like we never wanna make you feel broke. But the idea here is, you know, one of the things I like to ask my clients is ever have you, have you ever asked a millionaire how they got there? And the answer is, it’s never on accident. Like, it was very strategically planned. And so what with this, we wanna give you the right amount of spending money where it feels good and you feel like everything is covered and there’s a little bit of cushion, but it’s, you’re not, it’s not out of control. Right. And also you don’t feel restricted.
SR (33:37):
Well, and another key part of this pers of this spending column, and we’re not done yet, we got one more column after the spending, but is personal spending. So when you were asking earlier about feeling people have money, baggage, and they have different kind of self sabotage things that they do when it comes to their money. And so one of the, one of the ways to fix that is to get you used to having money. You have money, you have money to spend, nobody’s telling. You can’t. And so you can take away some of that, some of that angst that people have. You have permission. You have permission. Go to target girl, go to target to your heart out or wherever you need to go. And, and, and that’s the personal spending money. And we want that separate for each you know, the the husband and the wife or whatever, whatever you know, situation you have there. We want that separate so that you can, you can have it. And, and it really does help heal. Yes. Your relationship with money in some ways. And, you know, this whole system is really gonna help heal your relationship with your spouse when it comes to money as well.
AJV (34:35):
Hmm. Yeah. I think that’s so good of just like the personal spending accounts where it’s like, don’t have to ask permission. These are set aside amounts where it’s my free will money. And I, and I love that. And I think, you know, one of the things I think is like, so important that you guys brought up is like, we have money baggage, right? Mm-Hmm. . There’s money trauma or money insecurity or scarcity or whatever, whatever there is. And I, I would be curious to hear a couple of things that you guys have just seen that, you know, as people are listening, it’s like for the people listening who are going, man, it’s like, I know I should do all these things, but I’m still not because I have this emotional disconnect with money. And you know, one of the things that I run into a lot is people always think, well, I have to make more.
AJV (35:22):
I have to make more. And the question is, but do you Mm-Hmm. And it’s like there’s a, to some degree it’s like, could you ever make enough? Or is it really, I need to make more? Or is it you need to spend less? And, and I would just be curious, what have you guys seen as, you guys have been doing this with so many people over all the years of like, what are, what are some of the, the challenges that you guys seen and some of, hopefully some ideas of how do people overcome some of those money? Emotional? Yeah.
VP (35:59):
You know, we’ve had couples come together and, and never actually talk about money before they get married. And so when they get married, well, first of all, nobody ever taught them how to handle their own money. And then they get married, and now you’re having to handle two people’s, you know, two people money together that neither one of ’em ever spoke about. Mm-Hmm. So then you have the husband whose family maybe was very wealthy never had to worry about money. So he just spent all the time. Then you have the wife who came in whose family didn’t have a lot of money. So any money she does have, she wants to hold onto it because there’s money baggage there. And he has money baggage in his own way because never had to worry about it. So it was never a problem. Right. And then they come together trying to work this out and, and do finances together. It’s really, really difficult.
SR (36:40):
Hmm. Yeah. And one of the, one of the things that people are doing is they’re, they’re trying to not, they’re not looking at their numbers. So they’re just spending, spending spending until the, until they get to zero. That’s usually, or until their credit card balance is, is maxed. That’s, those are the two options. And, and so when we take ’em through the system, they have to get used to having money. It’s such a strange phenomenon. Like, you know, you, you’re making good money, you have money, like you’re, you’re doing well, but they, you still have this internal need to spend, spend, spend because you, you’re still living on that 18-year-old system or whatever where I didn’t have anything. And it’s scarcity. And so that is one interesting thing that we’ve seen is their, their money starts to stack up in their savings account. They have money every time they get paid.
SR (37:21):
And you can’t, you can’t have this self-sabotage loop of spend, spend, spend, have no money, spend, spend. It starts to break it. But it really is about, you know, taking full ownership when it’s amazing how I, how we can see people that, that spend money on their hair, their nails, their vacations, their, their car, like they’re so spiny, but once they actually start to look at it, they, and they take ownership. They’re not running from it anymore. Right. They’re looking at it, they’re taking ownership. They, they change. They really do. This is gonna blow your mind. They get more excited about saving money. Mm-Hmm. than spending money. And that’s just what we’ve seen. We’re not telling them to do be that way. It’s just like, right. It starts to be like, kind of be gamified. Like I ca I am this new person that, that gets more excited about spending than I, or saving than I do spending.
VP (38:05):
We have on average, depending on where people are in their, their financial journey, like they’re either paying off or saving about $20,000 in six months after working with us and seeing that the system that we put in, in place for them. But Shayna just had a client the other day who had money in the account and before they met, she just like transferred it out somewhere and Shayna’s like, what, what’d you do? And she said, well, I had money in there, so I just moved it. And she’s like, no, no, no. What the reality is, is because she’s not used to having money, she’s not used to seeing any money in her account. She’s usually always in the red or it’s, you know, at zero. So for her to see this money that we specifically put there on purpose, that was really hard for her to like settle with and be okay with.
AJV (38:41):
Yeah. I think, I think that that the, those emotional ties to money that we all have, regardless if it came from childhood, adolescence, adulthood, doesn’t matter where it comes from, it comes from something. And it’s, it really is having good awareness of what am I making? What am I spending, what do I want? And then what do I have to do about it? Right. Mm-Hmm. . And I think those are all kind of like some of like the basics there. For the, for, for everyone who’s heading into the new year, which we’re just right around the corner if we were to talk about just some simple steps that anyone can take to have more financial authority over their money in this next year, what would be some of those simple next best steps?
SR (39:25):
Well, as we alluded to, go ahead and print out three months worth of those statements. Print out the credit, whether it’s credit card or debit card, no shame there, but let’s just look at it. We like, we like to imagine that everybody can embrace their inner nerd and just get some highlighters, get, you know, just take, take a moment and just look and see what’s been going on. Bring
VP (39:43):
A beverage, bring some snacks, make a fun afternoon of it, and
SR (39:46):
Really just see what’s been going on with your money. And you know, when, when people do this, they, they tend to get down on themselves a little bit. They like, like we alluded to, several clients have come and say, well, that wasn’t fun. Mm-Hmm. . But actually it is fun because what it is, is it’s the first step in you taking complete ownership and you should be really proud. Like, awesome, you’re doing awesome. You’re doing the next, the next right thing. And that’s what we wanna do. We wanna look at where, like Vanessa said, where what we have been doing, and it’s really exciting to make a plan of what we want to do. Yeah. Because one of the things when we put the numbers into a budget with any new client, they’re, they’re like, wow, I have that much money.
VP (40:19):
Yeah. That, that’s true. Literally when we make a budget, they’re like, what do you mean I have $3,000 left over? I’m like, well, I mean, the one thing we love about finances, that numbers don’t lie. Yeah. Math doesn’t lie. It’s really black and white. So for them to be able to see all this leftover money, it’s really eyeopening. So, you know, when they do the 90 day audit and they look at all their, their, their
SR (40:35):
Numbers Yeah.
VP (40:36):
How they have been spending their money. The next step is to, the one thing that they can do is separate your accounts. Mm-Hmm. If it’s the one thing that they got out of this podcast at all is to open a separate checking account specifically for spending, and they can transfer a certain amount of money in the air every paycheck based on what their budget allows for them to have the freedom to spend. So that way it’s not convoluted, it’s not met mixed up with all of their bill and their debt payments. Well,
SR (40:59):
And just one more little thing, you know, we’re coming into the new year, you’re gonna be thinking about your goals anyway at brand builders. You know, we start with who, who are, who are you going to serve right here? Think about who you wanna be. Think about what you guys, what this big exciting vision you have for your life. Because no matter what it is, whether it’s being generous, whether it’s traveling, whether it’s something for your, your kids, it re probably gonna require money. Mm-Hmm. . So we wanna come up with that vision because that vision is what you’re gonna be able to you’re gonna create a budget to fulfill that vis vision and that’s what’s gonna inspire you to keep doing it, to keep trying to to keep looking at the number, stay motivated and stay motivated. Yeah.
AJV (41:35):
Yeah. The, that’s good. And I, and I love that ’cause it’s like, money is not bad. Right? Letting it rule over your life is bad, but money itself is not inherently bad. It is not bad to make money. Money is necessary and does much good. It’s just what we do with the money and is it ruling over our hearts or are we ruling over it? And this is a step to putting you in control over you ruling it, not it ruling you. Right. Exactly. Yeah, this has been so good and, and so timely as we head into the new year and specifically as we’re going, like most of your spending for the year is done. Mm-Hmm. . So it’s a good time to do a year in review, reset order in review whatever, whatever you can tolerate, right? Mm-Hmm. . But to do some sort of review and go, well, how could it be different in the future? And I love that. Now you guys also have a, a big launch coming out. Mm-Hmm. . Do you wanna talk about that?
SR (42:34):
Oh, well, yes. We really, really do. So we talked about this budget system that we created working with clients after, after you know, using other ones. And we have redesigned it and it’s really important that everybody knows it’s clear, it’s beautiful. That’s important. It’s important. If you want to look at the math, it should look nice. It has check boxes. Yes. We have added some bells and whistles, but it’s a whole system for you to be able to take control of your finances and, you know, set up your
VP (42:59):
Budget. Yeah. So you get lifetime access to this budget system. So you get to use it year after year. The idea is that you use one whole system for the entire year, then you get to re Mm-Hmm. download a new one and for, you know, 2 20, 26, 27, all that. But it also comes with a course. It comes with how to videos and exactly how to use it. So you are the most successful when you’re going through it and putting all the numbers on paper. But the reality is, is that, like Shana said, it is simple, it’s clear. It allows you to really see your money as a whole. And the best part, one of the best part is that you can print it all on one paper. Hey, so we were very specific when we designed it that if you wanted to print it out, you can do that. And it’s right there in front of you. We figured if numbers are on one paper, it can’t be so scary. That
SR (43:39):
May be so scary if it’s one page right. Like that, that seems fair. And so you can go to budget besties.com/aj to to check that
AJV (43:47):
Out. Yeah. So I would just encourage, like, if you’re listening to this going, man, it’s been a while since I made a budget. I should probably, I should probably have one. Or man, I don’t really know what to do and I never review my spending. This is an opportunity to have a reset moment. Mm-Hmm, , right? This is an opportunity to go, how do I do it in a simple way, a clear way, a navigatable way, one that feels like I can actually do it. And so I would just also encourage you, whoever’s listening, if this is a season that you need to just re-look at how you’re making money and spending money, this would be a great opportunity. So again, budget besties.com/aj and check out the simplified budget system to help you take control of your money. And also, I would encourage if you guys have enjoyed listening to Shayna and Vanessa, then also check out their podcast.
AJV (44:43):
You guys can go to budget besties.com/podcast. And then you can also just look it up which is Financial Coaching for Women. So check them out visit their podcast, check out their website check out this course. And most importantly, make sure that you make some changes about how you’re viewing your money so that you get to keep more of it. Shane and Vanessa, thank you so much for being on the show. For everyone who’s listening, stay tuned for the recap episode and we will see you next time on the influential personal brand.

Ep 541: Self-Doubt vs. Self-Belief | Marshawn Evans Daniels Episode Recap

AJV (00:03):
The difference between self-doubt and self-belief. These are not clinical definitions. I didn’t use Wikipedia or pull out the Webster dictionary. These are AJ Vaden definitions. Self-Doubt is the inability to believe in yourself. Self-Belief is simply the ability to believe in yourself, right? So self-doubt is the inability to believe in yourself, where self-belief is the ability to believe in yourself. And I kind of wanna talk about this concept of how do we turn self-doubt into self-belief? And I would encourage that there is nothing tactical, that I am going to give you some sort of checklist or workbook or a list of you know, self, you know, affirmations or positive goal setting exercises. That’s not what I have for you. What I have for you today is a perspective shift. It’s a decided choice to believe and to also factually realize that the hardest things that you’ve been through that have likely caused yourself doubt are most likely the things that have the power to change someone else’s life.
AJV (01:23):
And I just wanted to sit with that for a second. I’m gonna repeat that. Is that the things in your life that have most likely created this disbelief in yourself, this unbelief in yourself, IE self-doubt. So the things that have created self-doubt are also simultaneously, most likely the exact same things that have the power to change someone else’s life. You see, the challenge with self-doubt is it gets you believing that the insecurities that we have whether it’s through traumatic experiences or words spoken over us, or words spoken to us, or failures those things force us to believe that somehow we’re not worthy of doing something bigger and better because we’ve had this failure. We, we were the victim of something. We we weren’t able to do something in a better light or a better way the first time. And it convinces us that somehow we don’t have the authority to help someone else because of that thing, right? And it could be a divorce, it could be a failed business. It, it could be the fact that you are not married. It could be the fact that you’ve never been an entrepreneur who knows what it is. I know that, you know, I have insecurities in my life from comparison, right? The, the simple act of comparison creates this, this inkling of somehow other people are better and more well
AJV (02:59):
Positioned, they’re more informed, have more expertise. And that’s a lie. It’s a lie because the things that have seemingly failed in my life are also the things that I am best and most well positioned to speak on, to coach people through to go, I completely understand where you are. I have been there before and this is how I overcame it. This is how I got out of it. The things that have the potential to create self-doubt are the exact same things that have the power to speak life into other people. And if we’re focused on our insecurities, it’s an act of just self-reflection. And, and not in a good way. It’s an act of selfishness, of self-centeredness to go, well, I’m, I’m only worried about me. How I will look, my ability to do this. Instead of going, I don’t care how I have to do this.
AJV (04:00):
I know that what I went through. There are other people out there going through the same thing. They just need someone who can relate to them, who ha who is on the other side of it. You don’t have to be well-spoken. You don’t have to have great frameworks or formulas to actually have the power to help someone else change their life. That is self-belief is believing in your own ability to help someone else. And when we let self-doubt creep in, what it really ultimately does is it puts us into hiding. And it it disallows us from doing the thing that we actually wanna do. We want to help people. We want to serve people, but we’ve got this self-doubt thing creeping in because we’re comparing ourselves or we’re reflecting all the things that haven’t worked. We’re reflecting on all the failures, and we’re forgetting that the things that were the failures are the things that people need to hear the most.
AJV (04:59):
Nobody wants to hear about all of your wi your wins and your victories and successes. Those are important for credibility. But that’s not what makes you personable. That’s not what makes you relatable. What makes you relatable is knowing that you went through the fire and you made it through, right? That you sunk to the bottom and made it back up to the top. That’s what people need to know. They need to know that you know what it’s like to have been at the depths of the sea and you know how to swim back to shore, right? That is the, that is the, the special and unique part about overcoming self-doubt, which is realizing the things that you’re the most insecure about are the things that have the power to speak life and into other people if we just bring them to light. But if we allow them to remain in this area of self-doubt, IE hiding, then it ref, it literally creates this, this curtain, this, this impossibility of
AJV (05:56):
Our ability to help impact other people. And so I would just encourage you to lean into the things that are seemingly at the core of your self-doubt and go, no, those are the things. Those are actually the things that people wanna know. Those are the things that actually will draw people to you. Those are the things that people need help with. And when they know that you’ve been through them, then they will also believe that you can help them through them. It’s a perspective shift of going, what I went through is not what makes me unworthy, it’s what equips me to be the perfect candidate to help the next person. So is it gonna be self-doubt or self-Belief one has the power to keep you in hiding. The other one has the power to bring life into others around you. So two self-belief.

Ep 540: Believing Bigger with Marshawn Evans Daniels

AJV (00:00):
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. I am genuinely over the moon, excited to introduce to you today Marshawn Evans Daniels, and she was introduced to me by a friend, and I know if you guys follow me on social media and listened to this podcast, you have heard me refer to the a hundred Days of Believing Bigger devotional that was gifted to me by a dear friend earlier this year. And I’ve been raving about it, and I was just sharing with her, but before I hit record, how rare it is that I would read something and then stalk the person down and be like, I’ve got to interview on our show. Like, you have to share your words with our audience. And I’m so grateful, I’m so genuinely excited to introduce you guys to her. But before I give her a quick formal introduction, I want to tell all of you why you need to stick around for this particular episode as we’re rounding out the end of the year as we are sitting here in 2024, I think it’s a really unique time of year for everyone to go , what has this year looked like for me and what do I want next year to look like for me, but not in a 12 month scope, but in a life perspective of like, what do I want to do more of or less of, or stop doing or start doing to live bigger, believe bigger and have a different life than what you have now?
AJV (01:25):
That could be doing more. It could be doing less. It could be, you know, rising up. It could be stepping back, whatever it may be. This is a really awesome season to step back and reflect, but also dream and, and really think about what that looks like. And so this is one of those episodes that it doesn’t matter who you are or where you are in your personal brand journey, it will have application to you. So I highly encourage you to stick around to the very, very end. I promise you it’s going to be worth it. Now, without further ado, let me give a quick formal bio. Marshawn Evans Daniels is a reinvention strategist and a faith and business mentor. She is a former pro sports attorney, a Miss America finalist. She was a Trump apprentice. And I think just as cool for the last 15 years she has been doing coaching and consulting and speaking and authoring on topics of how do you live bigger, how do you believe bigger?
AJV (02:26):
How do you dream bigger by helping people craft and sell hand offers close mass market brand deals, corporate contracts upload their uplevel, their visibility. And I’m sure I missed at least a hundred things, . But what I can tell you is that from my interactions with her books and I there, and I said that, I’ll say this a hundred times, the words that she writes are anointed in a way that touches you at a soul level. And so if you guys would just stick around, I promise you, it’ll, it’ll be one of the most impactful hours that you spend on this podcast. So, Marshawn, welcome to the show.
MED (03:02):
Thank you for having me. It has been worth the wait for us to get this date together.
AJV (03:08):
Well, I’m genuinely so excited to just introduce you and just to help our audience get to know you a little bit, can you kind of just give us a little bit of the backstory? You’ve got such this amazingly, you know, complex and different and really cool path that has led you to where you are. Can you kind of just give us a play by play of how’d you end up doing what you do with all of this stuff that you have done?
MED (03:32):
Well, I appreciate that intro and the question, I believe that the hardest question, but the most important question that anyone can answer is who are you? Hmm? What do you do ? And obviously how’d you get here? And for me, it really starts I’m not gonna tell you my whole life story, but I will tell you that I’m here because of experiences I had when I was a little girl growing up in Texas. My family was the only black family on our street, almost in our neighborhood. My brother and I were two five black kids in the entire school. And so for us, it often felt like what I would imagine more modern day integration. Meaning it was the first time that my teachers had had black kids in their school, in their classroom for the first time. And that really sounds, it depends on where you come from, but for me, it really challenged esteem.
MED (04:23):
And who was I and where did I belong and did I fit? And was I good enough to be in a space simply by being exactly how God made me. And actually in his image, each of us represents the actual image of God, the actual visual of God we’re extensions of his DNA. But when I showed up for school the first day it’s kindergarten for my brother, first grade for me. And I remember watching all of these kids walk straight to their classroom and we got stopped at the front door and they said that we were at the wrong school. Now, there was another school very close to us, but they assumed that we were supposed to be at the one down the street. ’cause There was an apartment complex where a lot of the brown kids were at, and they just assumed that that’s where we were supposed to be at school at.
MED (05:06):
And so they required my dad to pull out. And my mom was there that day as well to pull out Id to prove that this is where we belong and that this is where we were supposed to be. And I remember that feeling of wondering why nobody else was stopped, why everyone else got to go straight to their classroom. And they looked at our id, we did pay the taxes. We did have a house in the right zip code. And that really really showed, really defined the next six years. And I say that because I was labeled a problem child. I was labeled antisocial and that I needed special ed. When I ended up graduating from Georgetown Law School, I ended up graduating high school with honors. I graduated college, Magna laude, had over $200,000 in academic scholarships. They told my brother he needed special ed, he went to Rice University. We both graduated college and law school, a hundred percent debt free at the top academic institutions in the world. And the reason we were able to do that, I believe largely was because we had parents that taught us about who we are at home. That was not defined by what other people said, but they also introduced us to Christ. They introduced us to the Holy Spirit. They introduced us to God, and then they introduced us to church. And that’s a difference. Yeah.
MED (06:27):
That order is specific. Yeah. They introduced us to God and not just a God, but the God of the universe who had a son, and that there was this gift of the Holy Spirit. And to learn that at three years old, mm-Hmm. I’m now a mother. My greatest title is a mom. So I’m a mom of triplets. And to now have girls who are four years old, my middle child started speaking in the spirit at the age of three and remembering how important it is to arm our kids early. So for me, in terms of how I ended up here, it’s been a really big faith walk. I don’t have the connections. There’s nothing about my family that would make sense as to why at 18, 19 years old, I was appointed by George W. Bush as a teenager to the state advisor group for Texas to help impact youth policy and crime that I would be, you know, selected to work with the US Justice Department at 15 years old to be traveling around the world speaking.
MED (07:23):
But there’s something that’s really powerful when you find your voice early. And so when we talk today in this internet marketing business world about brand, to me branding is a, is a, is a easy business word to describe how do you help people, you know, how do you help people? But ultimately it’s less about brand, it’s more about voice. And so I’ve been on this journey to just figure out what God, where, where’s the next adventure. So it’s taken me to, to law, to law practice, to a sports agency. I signed the highest paid defensive end in the NFL as my first client. It took me from growing that having Rolls Royce, Tiffany and Company Nike as my clients, N-F-L-N-B-A players losing that. And that’s really how I stumbled into this space was through heartbreak and disruption that we could talk about. But I think that, you know, today, it’s an interesting question because I feel like I’m at a new turning point again, of what’s next. And every time I think about that, I’m like, let me not look too much at my brand because my brand is what I built and how I described it. But let me just lean back into where does the voice, where are you leading me to lead, and what are you leading me to say next?
AJV (08:37):
Hmm. That’s so good. And I, I love what you said too. It’s, it’s more than a brand. It’s the voice. Yeah. And I love hearing that. And quite honestly, I, I didn’t even know those things about you when you were 15 or 18, and I didn’t even know that you were the mom to 4-year-old triplets. Oh,
MED (08:53):
Yeah.
AJV (08:54):
Like, so that’s
MED (08:55):
. We’ve gone very viral for that, but yes.
AJV (08:58):
Mm-Hmm. I, like, I’ve been so, like actually just in your books Mm-Hmm. I hadn’t even like, stepped out to go like, what is this? I mean, now. And I think, you know, one of the things that I would encourage everyone who is listening to be reminded of is you can listen to podcasts like this and, and you can read blogs and you can follow social media, but there’s stuff, there’s something different about what you learn in a book. Mm-Hmm. . And if you think about the time to prep for a podcast or a blog or social media versus the time that you prep in writing a book, I think there, there’s something uniquely different about that. And I, I’m just curious to hear all of this. Like, why did you write a book? Like, why, why did you go down that road?
MED (09:38):
Yeah. So the book you’re probably referring to that you’re most familiar with is a hundred Days of Believing Bigger. That is one of many, my first book I wrote in 2008 called Skirts in the Boardroom. And it is, it was published by Wiley, the largest business book publisher in the world. It was the first time they published a book with a black female under the age of 30, which is a very big deal considering this is where the business titans all the, all the guys were publishing their books. So I was in my twenties, and this was before Facebook . This was actually when it was a risk. This is bef I wanna set the context because this is before the Girl Boss movement. This is when it was a risk to do a business book with a woman. And there was a question as to where there was, whether there was a market, and I say this for those of you who are in business, who are believers or searching for a path kind of divinely and under trying to understand, you know, is this a calling? Is this what God is asking me to do? Is this selfish because it’s about money? You know, I believe that the women in business who are successful are the one who hear God before everyone else here. When it’s popular, it’s a leftover message.
MED (10:50):
And so I wrote that book ’cause there was something to say, and I was on the show, the Apprentice, 1 million people apply, 18 get selected, nine of there or more women. And because of the way the show worked, they picked one African-American woman out of a million. And so be, but beyond that, all the experiences I had, and I’ve always loved deal making. I’ve always loved high fast-paced environments. And so I wrote about confidence and what does it really mean to wear your skirt? Oh my gosh I forgot what my acronym for skirts actually stands for Sisterhood Knowledge. It’s been, it was 2008. It’s been a while. That’s so funny. It’s been a minute. But at the time I felt I really wanted to talk about women in business aligning together, around just believing that we belonged in the boardroom.
MED (11:42):
We belonged in the place of deal making. My second book came 10 years later in 2018 called Believe Bigger, which is, it’s about it’s not about success. It’s about supernatural alignment actually. And how embracing disruption for for reinvention. Mm-Hmm. . And I was engaged when I came off of The Apprentice, and I stepped into the world of professional sports and grew a sports agency, was the fastest growing sports agency by a woman in less than a year, is a very cutthroat environment to be working pro athletes. And I met this man, and I felt like this was the sign of faithfulness I had made. I thought all the right decisions in terms of my body, drugs, you know, friends, just making all the straight and narrow path decisions, graduated, have all these degrees. I’m doing television commentary for C-N-N-E-S-P-N, Fox Business every major news network that there is. And I meet this guy I don’t have any kids. He’s a, a dad to three, and I become a bonus mom. And I feel like, God, you’ve just blessed me so much. And I’m on the 50 yard line of all of these different, you know, you know, my athlete clients games and having all these experiences. So I end up deciding to close my sports agency down to become a wife and to become a mom. And I find out six days before my wedding, the planned wedding that he’s cheating on me.
MED (13:15):
And I, and this is where the a hundred days of believing bigger the message of believe bigger, the brand that I’ve built around confidence, all of this, some of this, this season, these last 14 years came out of betrayal and infidelity. Mm. Came outta depression of being a person who built, has built a immaculate resume with the best law schools and the best experiences. Big companies, big clients. I’m on television and, and private, which became public because it was a public wedding. It’s embarrassing. And so when I say believe bigger, it is not superficial. It is not bathed in the superficiality or the shallowness, the pink and black of this girl boss movement. It is out of the way that any holy reckoning, any higher elevation that really comes from the hand of heaven, it comes from the same thing that God, that Christ had to go through.
MED (14:11):
It comes from betrayal, , it comes from rejection, having to leave where you were to go, where you’re born to be. And if we don’t go through disruption, we won’t step into destiny. So to believe bigger is how do you believe bigger than what you are in right now? How do you believe bigger than what you have been, even if it has been good? Because what do you do when God breaks up a blessed thing? And so that, that, that I, I didn’t want to write believe bigger. It was the hardest thing for me to write because it was off brand for me. I, my brand is strength and it is excellence and knowledge and mastery and positive nobody. And I was like, nobody wants to hear me talk about that. That’s not on brand either, but the number of women who have started businesses, the number of women who haven’t committed suicide, this is what my dms are filled with.
MED (15:02):
And the number of women who have left marriages that they weren’t supposed to be and called off weddings that they knew they weren’t supposed to step into or stepped into them and read, you know what? I have enough. Someone did this, maybe I could do it too. And I could give myself a yes and say no, despite what people would say, despite what my previous yes. Was. That should have never been a yes. And so I write books about belief. Mm-Hmm. Right. And so out of that people were teaching the messages inside of Belief Bigger. And I, my devotional, I grew my email list. I’ve grown my platform not by sending out business tips every week by sending out devotionals, and then people have trusted me in business. And that’s where a hundred Days of Believing Bigger came from. But I will tell you, I wrote it while I was pregnant.
MED (15:52):
Mm. With triplets where the doctors were giving us a 4% likelihood of going full term. So when you read any of the things in a hundred Days of Believing Bigger, I was literally carrying three babies. And the doctors were saying that we needed to selectively reduce, Hmm. I’m carrying three babies. They’re telling me that I’m geriatric, that I am ultra high risk. I had to change my language to high potential, high possibility in speaking life. And so it’s in that environment that a hundred Days of Believing Bigger was written. It came out in 2020 in the middle of a pandemic at the beginning of a pandemic. And it sold a year’s worth of books in 14 days. And this is what happens when God breathes on something. And that’s why I know that a hundred Days of Believing Bigger is it’s a, it’s a, it’s a reminder to me that God will do exceeding and abundantly above all you ever hope or imagine. But we have to first imagine that we are worthy to be included in that vision of his as well. So that’s a long way of asking why did I write a books, why I write books in general. Well, I think
AJV (16:57):
It’s so good because I think in general, what what honestly, and, and so much of in Believe Bigger, and I, I don’t wanna jump to my own assumptions, but you talk about this split rock moment. Yes.
MED (17:10):
Mm-Hmm.
AJV (17:10):
. And it’s like that defining thing that kind of shatters your life, you know, can tear it down, but also moves you into something deeper. I’m imagining you just referred to some of that when it happened in your personal life. And, and I think that no matter what, at the end of the day, people always are looking for just signs of hope and resilience of like, and I, and I, and I say that because I know that it’s like, even in business, it’s like I tell people all the time, it’s like there is, there’s only one type of coach out there, and it’s called a life coach . It doesn’t matter if you’re in business coaching or financial coaching, at the end of the day, what people need is they need life support. Right? They need life hope. And then that weaves into money and business and all the other things.
AJV (17:51):
And I, I’m just curious for the people who are listening, who, well, and I’ll let you define what that split drop mo moment is, but for the people who are listening, going like, okay, I resonate with that. Like, I, I’m, I’m at one of those moments where I’m like, nothing is going right. Yeah. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that’s so great for you Marshawn , like, I’m so glad you’ve done all this. But to also hear the places that you were at when you wrote those and the inspiration Mm-Hmm. of where that came from, I think is really profoundly important. And also for the person who is going like, but how, yeah. How, how do you do that? Yeah. What, what would you take them?
MED (18:27):
Well, you know, the word says in the Bible that not by strength, and you know, not by my, not by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord, there’s certain things that we cannot do on our own. And for me, well, I’ll tell you this, the idea of the split rock moment was a phrase that I came up based off of a passage I read in Isaiah 48 21, where he talks about how God led the people into the desert. And then he split the rock and then water gushed out. And I’m reading this scripture on the side of my bed. This is maybe days, weeks, I can’t remember exactly the timing after I called this wedding off. So I’m on the side of my bed in pajamas. Probably hadn’t bathed that day. Certainly doubt. I even brushed my teeth. ’cause This is how snotty and ugly depression looks sometimes.
MED (19:09):
But I’m on the side of my bed on the floor with my Bible, and I see this scripture, and I’ve been having dreams about being in deserts. So when it says he led them into the desert, that really almost jarred me to a point where it caused me to sit up. And I felt like it was it was calling to me. And I sat with this passage for days. And when I saw he led them into the desert, I was like, wait a minute. God, you put me here. This wasn’t an attack of the enemy. Now it doesn’t mean the enemy won’t try to use something. You know, I always say Jesus came writing in on a donkey. And it’s you, you gotta get the book in order to understand how difficult this type of betrayal and infidelity was and how close it was, and how under the, under the radar it can be right there.
MED (19:57):
But sometimes it has to be something that wakes you up. And the question is, if there’s a split rock, it’s separating us from something. When you look at a rock when I was at TCU, Texas Christian University for college, I took geology and I don’t remember there being a lot of water inside of rocks. Right. . And so it was like, well, how is that even possible for there to be water in rocks that was waiting there? And when I sat with the scripture, the rock began, it became clear, was a hard place. Now, for those of you listening, disruption is not the same as disappointment or difficulty. You are gonna have difficulty, but it’s not all disruption. You’re gonna have interruption, you are gonna have redirections, you’re gonna have disappointment. But it doesn’t mean that it is a, a true disruption. A disruption is a separation of who you’ve been into something else.
MED (20:50):
It is taking you into a massively different place. ’cause Then when he says he split the rock and water gushed out, it was like an oasis was created. And that is radically different than a desert. And sometimes where you are has been something that has been really well watered. I was in this sports space and everything was going well. And even after I called everything off from the wedding, I tried to go back into it. ’cause I closed that business down to become a wife and a and a and a mama. So I didn’t know how I was gonna, now with my Georgetown law degree and all these opportunities, I didn’t know how I was gonna pay my bills. So that what was once what was once soil can become dirt when God takes his hands off of it. And then the question is, am I supposed to move?
MED (21:30):
But then why? What I realized is that it wasn’t just a breakup with a person, it was a breakup with myself and a version of myself that was divine defined by success. Mm-Hmm. divine by titles that became idols. These labels about mm-Hmm. being a lawyer even, and all these things. Those were the, I was, I was breaking up with that. And so if you’re in a space where you’re like everything seems to be shifting, maybe the kids are leaving and you’re now, who am I? The question of whether it’s a disruption is usually when it will cause you to ask, who am I now? And that’s the question that you need to be asking in these seasons, because it is, am I holding on to who I have been and blocking who it is that I’ve always been born to be? And so when you go through a split rock moment, it is, it is for your gift.
MED (22:15):
It is for your own protection and redirection so you can come in alignment with your real assignment. And I would’ve never desired because I didn’t desire to work with women. There’s a reason why I worked with athletes. And then God sit the split rock in the midst of a woman telling me she’s sleeping with my fiance. And God says, you’re gonna change the lives of women like never before. And I’m like, not excited. Sometimes we think the calling is exciting, but you have to fall back in love by first losing your old loves. And that’s how that’s how real, real supernatural reinvention, divine reinvention, redirection, realignment with your master assignment. All the seasons of past though, are important as you know, what you all likely teach as well is that you wanna bring what you’ve learned with you, but you can’t bring who you’ve been with you in terms of that being your core identity, if you wanna step into greater impact.
AJV (23:12):
You know, I love that. And I love that question of like, you know, what’s a disruption if it causes you to ask, who am I? And you know, curious, like, would you have said like, at that moment prior to this, like, and you kind of said it was all divine by titles and success and money and ambition, and like, how would you answer that today?
MED (23:34):
Hmm. I think I’ve done a lot of work around this for sure. So I, I know that I am a catalyst. The evidence of my life is catalystic. Mm-Hmm. Right. And I know that God didn’t just give me a voice that he created us as voice. Mm-Hmm. We see this in Genesis one, three when he said, let there be light. And if we’re created in his image, we’re created to create the way that he creates. And that, and it’s interesting because I literally was in a hundred days of believing bigger this morning, and I opened up to day 27 and I was journaling it myself. And, and I’m off, I’m off schedule. For those of you who fall off schedule, I’m off schedule in my own book. But I was looking at it, you wanna know what the question is today, aj, but today, so the title is on identity.
MED (24:24):
The subject is you are Distinctive. And the question for today is, how is your personality a clue to what God designed you to do? Right. And I struggled with this. I’ve done this devotional multiple times. There’s a point where I had to put it down because I’m like, God, you’ve told me over and over who I am. And this is just a authentic reality of sometimes you’ve, you, you know who you are and there’s still some resistance in your life. Hmm. You’re seeing evidence and fruit in other people, and you’re feeling like you’re still in a pause. And sometimes, sometimes it is exhausting to ask God, who am I? Because he’s already told you. And even in that he’s paused some things.
MED (25:29):
But I will say it’s funny ’cause I wasn’t gonna bring this. And he said, you bring this to this interview, . And I walked all the way back AJ to get this. And no matter it’s interesting, it was really almost even about brand today, aj. But the most secure place, this is in my notes, the most secure place is wherever God is sending you. Mm-Hmm. . And it’s less about who you are and what you’re capable of, because I do believe he arms you with that. So you have that as your sword. But really the question isn’t for me in this season, who am I? It is where am I called to be with who I am? Mm-Hmm. , that’s good. Every season doesn’t require a new discovery of who you are. But when he’s saying sit or move, it’s, am I, am I embracing that?
MED (26:28):
And I think the more successful you become, again, , you have to ask yourself, God, is this where you a are asking me to be with who I am as a catalyst, as a voice, as a belief builder? And I sometimes, I guess, I guess this is not the, the cleanest answer, but the last thing that I wrote in here was show me what and where to grow next in this season. So it’s still very, I always wanna be in a place of awe of if you have me sitting, it’s because you have something you wanna deposit at another level. So ultimately, I know what he said. I don’t believe that those things are changed, but I don’t know what actually there is to me that I don’t know about next.
AJV (27:16):
Yeah. I love that. I ha I have to remind myself often when I feel like I’m in seasons of standstill or seasons of pause, that it’s because God is preparing me. He’s teaching me often patience. often what I am I know I am learning is patience and his timing. And I think that for everyone who is listening to Marshawn speak, it’s like, don’t think that just because you’re not going where you wanna be isn’t because there aren’t plans for you. Mm-Hmm. it’s like so, so often to just what you said, it’s like, man, I, I have to accept the pauses in my life and the, the seasons of stillness or lack of clarity of going, man, something is, something is being prepared in me and for me. And I, I was doing my devotional in this book this morning, . And I had a early morning call with my husband Rory. And I, I literally said to him, I was like, Hey, there’s something I feel unsettled at in my soul right now that I haven’t been able to put my finger on until today. Which is I have too much going on, and it’s unsettling in my soul of what I feel like God has called me to, and I’m being distracted and pulled in areas that are not for me.
MED (28:36):
Yes.
AJV (28:36):
And the biggest thing that I need to do is learn how to, to, to do less and to say no. In a season of like, if I’m really gonna do what I’m called to do, then I, I have to learn how to say no. I
MED (28:49):
Have to and to have room to hear the Yes. Yeah. I think what you’re experiencing is, is busyness happens at all levels, but the higher up you are, the harder it is to discern blessed versus busy.
AJV (29:01):
Totally.
MED (29:02):
You’re not alone. And there’s several women that I’ve been talking to that are kind of in this same space. And what I’ve come to describe it as now as a fog, an intentional fog to allow certain things to settle. But, you know, I’ve got this contract here for a five year endorsement deal. I just signed a two YA two book children’s deal. I turned in into second draft of my manuscript yesterday. And then we’ve got a new mastermind that we’ve rolled out. And so it’s not that there’s not, sometimes it’s not that you’re not where you wanna be, but you still feel there’s another place that you are to be. And when there’s things coming in and they don’t, you don’t feel a quick, yes, it makes logical sense, but then can you hear if there’s something else? And I feel like there’s something else that these things are not bad.
MED (29:55):
And all these things are great, these are preparation for the future. But I think for women who are visionaries, it is important for us to just recognize sometimes that we can be very successful and things are great, but there’s still more sometime. But God’s gonna go deeper though. Before he can review. We’ve gotta hear more of his voice. It’s not gonna necessarily be from a, from a coach or even from a podcast. You know, my my hope is that when someone hears what I say, they would go pick up a Bible. Mm-Hmm. Even if you never have before or pick up a devotional. I think what I try to do with a hundred days of believing Bigger is anchored in such a way that it speaks to probably where you are. If you’re drawn to goals, vision, dreams, and ambition, likely it hasn’t been properly discipled.
MED (30:46):
‘Cause There’s all, there’s not much in the church or Bible or resources, podcasts that really disciple both together. But the worst thing you can do is become dependent on another person’s voice and that person begin to shape who you are. And I think that’s the illness of this entire industry. Mm-Hmm. is that gurus are becoming idols. People are and there’s so much manipulation, there’s so much, and this is why I think what the Bible would call a remnant, but why those who really have a true heart for helping others, you’ve gotta put your oxygen mask on first. And that can’t come from a person that has to come from heaven. You need supernatural air.
AJV (31:26):
Yeah. And I love that you bring that up. So I have a question for you. Yes. So in this world where everything is so visibility driven, social media driven, me, me, me personality especially, and like I’m in the space of personal branding now we, we define it slightly different than how most other entities would define personal branding. However, I am curious to hear your thoughts on when everything surrounding success has to do with more, faster, bigger, you know, those types of things. H how, how would you recommend somebody redefining what success looks like that is purpose driven and meaningful versus the worldly sense of, you know, success or visible?
MED (32:13):
Yeah. Well, when I started my company coming out of that broken season, I had an event called me University, the Ultimate Business in Branding bootcamp. And I had been on CNN, I’d been a brand manager, essentially with my sports agency managing athletes, NFL players, but also entertainer celebrities. I’d helped, I’ve helped number of Miss Americas and Miss Universes, miss USA contestants, I shouldn’t say Miss Universe, but Miss USAs, some have gone on to Miss Universe. And so I have always believed in presentation. Look, I competed in Miss America . I grew up in front. I grew up on stage. I was a competitive baton twirler, all the makeup, all the hair, all the glam. And so presentation to me was never a bad thing. I always learned to bring God with you in everything that you do. But in terms of the brand piece in particular, when I first started, I was scared to even say a prayer at my own event.
MED (33:08):
And then as I really get came to understand, this was a calling, I was like, is branding superficial? Hmm. Is this actually wrong? And the reality is you know, God said, not just let there be light, and then there was light. But we are supposed to be light. We are supposed to be seen. And there’s, I will say this really clearly, and some of you need to write this down, but there’s absolutely nothing wholly about hiding. Mm. That’s pious. There’s nothing represent the, the problem is God has been poorly branded. And also because there are not people who a lot and a lot of people right now, faith has become popular. It’s become very manipulative. Also that utilizing faith as part of the brand for many people is a marketing tool because they know that people will come into their programs. That’s perverted too.
MED (33:57):
The question isn’t about presentation. God made women to look a certain way because he wants people to see us. We’re supposed to be attractive. We’re designed to attract, we’re never, it is supernaturally a part of the gift that makes the yoke easy burden and light for us. Being your best self is never a bad thing. Caring about, if you brush your teeth, why not put on some mascara? Like it’s the same thing. It’s not, there’s nothing wholly or unholy about that activity. Presenting yourself as an authority. There’s nothing wrong with that either. If you actually are. Now, if you’re not, it’s gonna bo it’s gonna burst one day. But ultimately it’s less about brand. It’s more about voice. And what is it that you are, what are your values and what do you see when you determine your values and you’re really clear about that.
MED (34:50):
And you then you see what do you, what do you envision when you’re casting vision for people? This is not about you being successful. This is about you helping other people to be successful. I believed I said this in 2011 for the first time, I said, I believe that entrepreneurship is a new faith movement. That was before it was a movement. I just believe that. And other people locked into that vision. And now there are a lot of people who teach faith in business as it should be that way. But I do believe it’s time for next level to that vision because it’s I don’t believe that most people who talk about faith in business are actually growing people in their faith. That means it’s just a cheap marketing trick. So for me, it’s not about success in terms of money, it’s about alignment with assignment.
MED (35:40):
Mm-Hmm. people say, you should start a church. I’m like, I’m not a pastor. , I’m not a shepherd. I have very little patience for people. I’m more midwife. I’m gonna get you out the, I’m gonna get you onto the field and I’m going to go to the next thing. But what my o only point in that is that the only thing that matters is not success, but alignment. Wherever God sends you is holy ground. And if, and, and he will prosper where he puts you. Mm-Hmm. . And that is about where he needs you, which is about other people. So success really is about how am I called to lead? Where am I called to lead? And how can I bring what I really believe to distinguish myself from the, from the swamp, from all the p in the pool?
AJV (36:26):
That’s so good because it’s
MED (36:28):
There.
AJV (36:28):
Yeah. You know what, I wrote this down. I said, this is so good. And if you didn’t hear her write this down. Now it’s like, there’s nothing holy about hiding. And you know, I think one of the things that, you know, and I’ve, I don’t know if this was in believe bigger or in the devotional, but like one of the things that really stuck out to me is the difference of playing small. And how, like, I think self-doubt. I think you talk about how self-doubt is really tied to playing small. And there was something that you just said that made me think about that, about there’s nothing holy in hiding. And if you’re hiding, it’s probably somehow connected to some self-doubt that you have about yourself. And so, can we talk about, just for a quick sec, and I know that we’re coming up on our time, but what, what are some shifts that need to go from, you know, the self-doubt mentality to a self-belief mentality, but specifically around this idea of playing small, which in my opinion and from a lot of people in our audience really has to do with saying yes to anything that comes their way versus discerning what’s the right.
AJV (37:35):
Yes. And so they end up doing a whole bunch, but it’s all real small and it’s really all centered in, well, I don’t know if I can do more than this. I don’t know if I can do bigger than this, so I’ll just do whatever comes at me. And thus, they’re so busy they can’t do the bigger things that they really want and feel called to.
MED (37:52):
Yeah. So belief is such a powerful thing. And when you talk about going from kind of doubt to belief or insecurity to feeling confident or what I would call even God fit, there’s two voices that I talk about. These, this battle for your destiny, this battle for your mind. And really it’s a battle for your belief. You know, I say the, the brain is an organ, but God showed me that the mind is an organization the difference. And there’s these two forces that show up as two voices that are battling for your belief and your voice and your identity. The first voice is called little me. And this is the vo voice of doubt that causes you to shrink. And the purpose of little me is to keep you small, to keep you settling and second guessing. And we’ll use scripture to do it.
MED (38:42):
We’ll use convention, protocol, gender, all the things that are appropriate. This is where we as women get should it on. Here’s what you should do, here’s what you shouldn’t do. And you’re asking these questions through a lens. And Little Me also is a great tape recorder. Little Me has kept track of every single thing that has been said to you, that has created the seeds of insecurity and then waters them and replaced them. Okay? So Little Me’s job is to keep you small, because little me knows that if you dare to believe in who you actually are in your own supernatural greatness that was created at the same time that God breathed, left breathe life into the world, if you were just ha if you were to step into that and breathe that kind of air, and Little Me ceases to exist, so little me holds on for survival.
MED (39:29):
But on the other side of little me is this other voice called Future me and future me conspires with the Holy Spirit. Whereas little me conspires with the enemy, the enemy’s job is to come still, to kill and to destroy you. And we’ll do it by keeping you busy. We’ll do it by getting you to be self-righteous or in a place of doubt or in a place of whatever it takes to keep you out of alignment with the fullness of your assignment. And he don’t even make you rich to keep you out of significance. Oh, that’s bad. But future me knows who you are, knows your destiny is speaking to you from the future about your future. Future me is the one who says, yes, daughter, you yes. Start that. Step into that, raise that price. Put your face on the cover. God crafted it.
MED (40:18):
Right. Future me is the one that knows who you are, but future me is the voice we least listened to and comes to us like a whisper as opposed to the lion ness. Not just this lion, but like this lions boldness with this assured yet quiet, yet fearless confidence that is the voice of future me and future me is pulling us into that. And here’s the thing about mentorship is that really great mentorship should be speaking to your future without utilizing little me to get you to move. Mm-Hmm. , what happens so much in this space is mental manipulation to get you into a place of pain, fear, doubt, and desperation to get you to make an investment in yourself, right? Versus real. Mentorship speaks vision to your future from the future. And when visionaries meet, meaning when the future that someone sees for you matches the future that God has for you, you lean into that.
MED (41:19):
You lean into that. And that is that that’s what alignment is. And so when you’re looking at your belief, and all of us have garbage flowing through our minds that we have to bathe and clean out daily there are some resources, I think believe bigger, a hundred days of living bigger help you with that. The best resource I believe that you anchor and build your life around is the Bible. You wanna be around great mentors, but really pay attention to how people talk to you. And then how do you talk to yourself? And it is a lot of, there is mind training, but there’s also spiritual training that you need, I think to have longevity. If you are called to leave, you lead, you gotta deepen your own roots. And so when you, when you, the biggest thing to shift is number one, getting dec deciding about what do I no longer wanna stew on in my mind?
MED (42:12):
What littleness, what smallness, what insecurity am I going to now actively, actively target as the enemy against me that may be within me. Like this is what I’m going to, whether it’s therapy, whether it’s the food, whatev, what is it that might be biologically, chemically, spiritually, emotionally, relationally, environmentally? What is creating this? Because I’m here for a reason. I have been called for such a time as this. You have been called for such a time as this. So the enemy is not around you. It’s often within you. The Bible even says, you know, rescue me from my enemies. Who owns their enemies? Your enemy is often the enemy. Mm-Hmm. . And so this is just an invitation because this season is going to need your belief more than your more than your expertise. It’s gonna require you to believe bigger, especially the times that we’re entering into, to believe that you’re chosen, you’re worthy, and you’re actually ready. And bathe yourself in goodness and belief in the Bible. I keep saying in the Bible for a reason. ’cause It’s gonna be what you need to make it through, but also to accelerate in this next season.
AJV (43:23):
Mm. I love that. So, so good. And and just truthful. It’s just truthful and, you know, it’s I love
MED (43:31):
Hot on that .
AJV (43:33):
Yeah. I mean that’s, I mean, that’s just, it’s just truth. I mean, and I think that’s in a lot of, in a lot of places right now. And I think where, where we have opportunity is to actually seek truth, not a truth, but the truth. Not our version of the truth, but the truth. Mm-Hmm. . And, you know, I love es I love the book of Esther and I love that you were made such a time as this. And, and the truth is, all of us we’re made with timing and purpose. And if you’re here and if you’re listening to this podcast, I would encourage you to go that too is for a reason.
MED (44:10):
Yeah. It’s,
AJV (44:11):
It’s for a reason. So for each of you who have chosen to stick around to the end not only in what just Marshawn just said, but also I’ve just going like, why was I called to this episode, to this test, to this person? Why did I stick around? And what does that mean for me when this episode is over? Because there’s, is, there is that timing for all of us. And so I just, I wanted to have you on the show ’cause I just, it’s been so impactful in my life of just back, you know what it is, it is connecting the faith element to the success element, to the personal branding and the identity and, and the voice. Right? There’s one part of your devotional where it’s like you, your message is a voice and Mm-Hmm. , you know, it’s like that’s the passage I read all the time and just encouraging to all of you. It’s like we all have a voice. We were given it. And it was, that’s
MED (45:08):
So funny ’cause that was my devotional yesterday was You are a Message and it’s all about remember your voices. So the timing, you know, it’s interesting ’cause we’ve had to schedule a few times to be able to make our calendars work, but then the precision of the Holy Spirit is that between yesterday and today, that we were still basically in the same message. Fear not living in different states, never talked to each other before today. And I think that’s why those who are listening, you’re here right on time as well too. And branding is blessed when we are remembering who we’re ultimately representing. The mastermind we just opened is called a Brand Elevation at Mastermind. And it’s really for those who’ve already been very successful, and you’re still asking this question, what’s next?
AJV (45:57):
Yeah, y’all, if you’re asking that question, what next? There’s a couple of places I wanna send you. First of all you should just follow Marshawn. It’s at Marshawn’s at Marshawn Evans. That’s her handle on all the different favorite social media platforms. But also go to believe bigger.com, get the book, get the devotional, get all the things. But then if you go to marshawn.com/start-here, which I’ll put in the show notes, but marshawn.com/start-here, there’s also a really cool free gift you wanna share just a quick few seconds about what they’re gonna get at start here.
MED (46:36):
Yeah. So it’s a class called Manifest Miracles. And you know, that word manifest is, is an interesting word nowadays, but I believe that the goal, the intention of our lives is to make manifest the glory of God. And that we do that in highly impactful ways and practical ways. I work with Office Depot Arts and Young Delta Airlines, Cisco HP tenure contract with them. I work with the biggest companies in the world. I’ve, but I also believe that this is what it means to manifest miracles, to birth babies, to work for there to be no limits to your life. And so just to have training around what that looks like and what that requires.
AJV (47:15):
So y’all, if you’re ready to believe bigger, there are so many tools and just words at your disposal to give you the inspiration. And also the next steps to do so. So, follow Marshawn visit, believe Bigger, then go to marshan.com/start-here. And get this on the go. Marshan, thank you so much for your time today and for everyone else, stay tuned. The recap episode will be coming next, and we’ll see you next time on the influential personal brand.