Ep 351: Finding Your Purpose in the Power of Service | Micheal Burt Episode Recap
RV (00:02):
Well, I loved that conversation with Coach Burt. In fact, I enjoyed it a lot more than I anticipated. Not that I, I didn’t think necessarily. I would, I just really, really enjoyed it. And if you haven’t listened to it, go back and listen to it. But the whole conversation is around activating your prey drive, like your, your P r e y prey drive, like the instinctive ability to pursue. And, you know at first when he was talking about the, you know, he teaches people how to do that, I was like, well, that’s interesting. Like that, that, you know, what’s that gonna be? And then as he talked out, these five activators, I, I, you know, they’re very simple, but very not so obvi, you know, it’s like the not so obvious truth and, and really, really powerful. So I loved it.
RV (00:51):
And it, part of my inspiration as I look back on that conversation and think about, you know, what other, what, what in, what have I learned? What did I learn from it? And then also, how am I sort of internalizing that conversation, which is always what we do with these recaps is thinking about how am I internalizing this? How am I applying it to my own life? And then what would I add to it in terms of clarifying, you know, the message or just kind of like speaking, speaking you know, my own insight in, in, into it, in my response. And I, I, you know, so as, as coach was talking, I love the, you know, just the activating the active nature of everything he’s saying in these, you know, these five activators in terms of overcoming complacency and, and fear and competition and environment.
RV (01:43):
Really, really good. Really, really good. Y you know, the thing that I wanted to kind of talk with you about and share with you is a little bit of some of, I guess the evolution of my motivation in, in my life and, and talking about finding, you know, power and motivation and purpose and how that’s evolved for me. And, and I think early in my career, you know, I was very driven, very ambitious, very focused on this you know, this, I would, I would call it pray drive. Like, I don’t know that I would’ve had a word for it before this interview, but I love what coach is saying is, you know, is activating this like hunger in this passion for conquering and, and, and achieving and pushing yourself to the limits. And I, I really do think that a lot of champions have that, and they figure out a way to do it.
RV (02:42):
And so that’s, there’s so much value in it. What’s interesting is that, well, once I got to you know, once I got married, and especially once I have had become a father you know, and, and maybe just from the result of maturing, hopefully a little bit or, or maybe just having a deeper faith walk, I think today, and, and, and in the last several years, I would maybe say like maybe the last, yeah, probably like the last 10 years, I would say it’s the last 10 years. I have really shifted and found my source of power and my source of motivation in a, from being focused on service. And this didn’t come up so much in, in the conversation. I don’t, I don’t think that it, it disrupts or dilutes anything that coach said, but I think it is, it is something in my own life that has been a, a, a different level of prey drive for me of just going what I do now.
RV (03:50):
What drives me now is, is not the pursuit of achievement for myself. It’s actually, it is actually finding meaning and value in my life and finding purpose in my life. And, you know, the most, the most powerful part of the whole interview, there were several highlights, but the most powerful part of the whole interview for me was at the very end when he said that his mom had been a nurse her whole life, her whole life. And, and she boiled it down to, there’s, there’s three, there’s three reasons people die. First of all, they run out of money. And so when they run outta money, they can’t afford good healthcare. The second is they run out of love, which, you know, their family forgets about ’em, and, and you know, that’s sad. Or they lose all their friends. That’s a really, really sad one. But then the third one she said is they run out of purpose and they don’t have something to get up and pursue.
RV (04:55):
And that really hit me hard, because that to me is the one that is the most avoidable of these three, right? Like, running out of money you know, some of that’s sort a matter of how long you live and how much money you’ve saved and how well you saved. And you know, but money runs out when it runs out, so to speak. And then running out of love, you know, in, in some ways I think that’s, that’s outside of your control. You know, you can’t force people to love you, but running out of purpose and having your purpose go ec be go extinguished to me is heartbreaking. And, and it, and it, and it is, it is defeating. It is. I can see why that would lead to, to, to death because it’s like, why am I living? Living is hard. Living takes work. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s time, it’s energy, it’s it’s pain, it’s setbacks. Like, there’s a lot of hard parts of just being alive. But the other part that makes me sad about that is going not only
RV (05:56):
Is one to me controllable, which is what I’m gonna talk to you about, is going, how is, how is it controllable? How does it become controllable in your life to never run out of purpose, to never have your purpose go e extinct. That’s what we’re gonna talk about here in this, in, in this recap, in this little addition. Because I believe there is a way that it would never go extinct. And the other thing is that if you do this, if you have this kind of purpose, you won’t run out of love. And I don’t think you’ll run out of money either. And here’s the big light bulb that came on for me, was that anytime I were in per I’m in pursuit of achieving things for myself it, it, it’s, it’s sort of self-centered, right? It’s a new title, it’s a new, it’s a new, you know, a possession.
RV (06:45):
It’s a, it’s a, it is yeah, it’s like a, a title I’m pursuing. It’s a trophy. It’s something like that, which I don’t think at all, nothing wrong with this, super valuable and, you know, change the course of my life. But what I noticed is that every time I would achieve one of those things, you know, it would wear off. And it was like, okay, now I need to push myself to the next level and the next level, which again, I don’t think is bad. I think, I think that is something that the world’s ultra performers do. I think coaches spot on. And I think, you know, we have had the privilege of coaching four billionaires, by the way. I’ve, I’ve personally worked with four billionaires in the last like 18 months. And so I’ve been around a lot of these people, and, and they do have a, a, a tremendous drive.
RV (07:29):
But of whatever the thing is, it’s like you need a new thing. You need a new goal. You need a new destination. You need a new target. You need a new timeline. You need to new title. You need, you need a new thing to go after to chase, to pursue, to sort of keep that going, which I don’t think is bad or wrong or, or even unhealthy. But the thing that I have found that I can pursue, that never goes away, that never becomes extinct, that never loses its power, that never disappears, never dissipates, never dilutes and, and it never, it never disappears, is serving other people, helping other people. And I don’t just mean this in like an altruistic sense or like some type of a spiritual sense. I also mean it in a, in a literal scientific, practical, pragmatic, even a self-centered sense.
RV (08:33):
You could even take it as far as that to go, that when I am focused on serving other people, it gives me something to pursue that never goes away. It, it, it gives me something that I, I, it’s a destination that I never fully reach. And it’s a, it’s, it’s a flame that never burns out. And, and the reason this is powerful is because it gives our life meaning, if I am just achieving for myself, if I’m just pursuing for myself, if I’m just conquering for myself, if I’m just acquiring for myself, there’s nothing bad or wrong with that. But what I’ve noticed is, is it doesn’t have the same level of meaning that if I am dedicating my life in the service of other people, because our lives have meaning in the context of other people, if I’m pursuing a goal, my life has, you know, meaning in the context of that goal.
RV (09:33):
But when that goal is achieved or not achieved, the meaning sort of is attached to it. But when I am, I am serving another person, or focused on serving people, my life always has meaning. Why? Because there’s never an end. There’s always people who need help. So when she said people die because they run out of purpose, that’s terrifying, and heartbreaking and sad and unnecessary, because if your purpose is caught up in serving other people, you’ll never run out of purpose. Because there’s always somebody who’s out there who needs your help. There’s always somebody who’s hurting. There’s always someone who’s broken. There’s always somebody who’s going through pain. There’s somebody who’s in a setback. There’s somebody who is, is in the, is the middle of devastation in crisis and, and temptation and indulgence and, and, and just, just pain. There’s always somebody out there, or a struggle or somebody who is trying to achieve something.
RV (10:33):
But, but there’s always somebody there. And so I should never run out of purpose because there’s, there’s never a finish line to the needs of this world that other people have. And I think that, I think that one of the things that we do that I would say is wrong, is people go searching for the pursuit of happiness, and they go searching for things and, you know, material possessions and titles and relationships, and, you know, job positions and, and homes and vacations and whatever. We go per that, we go in pursuit of these things that we think will bring us happiness. And again, there’s not anything wrong with those things. The part that I think is wrong is I think that we are wrong about where happiness comes from. I think we’re what we’re wrong. What we’re mistaken about is about what actually brings true happiness, true joy, true satisfaction, true fulfillment, true peace, and true power. What brings those things is not acquiring, it’s not achieving, it’s serving, it’s helping, it’s adding value. In other words, don’t ask, what is my purpose? Ask, who can I serve? Right? Don’t ask like, what should my next goal be? Ask, how can I be of value to somebody? How can I contribute to their life? How can I make their life better? And what is amazing about that is it is this, this infinite and invincible form of power, because when I am achieving, there are wins and there are losses.
RV (12:34):
But when I am serving, there are only wins. There are only wins You cannot lose when you’re serving someone else. And, and, and they cannot beat you, right? Like, if I’m in a competition, someone can beat me. And again, I think competition. I don’t wanna think competition’s not bad. I think everything that coach is talking about, I’d say like, amen, exclamation point. I’d punctuate it. Yes, these things are true. I’ve done these things. I agree. These are, these are characteristics of high performers. And I think there’s super p valuable power in activating and understanding your own prey drive. And then there’s also, I think, a power in activating this purpose, drive this, this, this neverending desire to contribute to humanity. And I think the, the people who, who really change the world are, are the ones who contribute value to other people, not just the ones who achieve or accumulate or accomplish a lot, but they’re the, they’re the people who help a lot.
RV (13:31):
They, they improve the lives of other people a lot. Don’t ask, what is my purpose? Ask, who can I serve? Don’t go searching for happiness. Go searching for someone to help. If you go searching for someone to help, and you help them, you’ll find happiness. There’s nothing like the feeling you get when you help somebody else succeed. There’s nothing like the feeling you get when you, you know, contribute to somebody else’s success. There’s nothing like the feeling you get to when you, when you add value to somebody’s life, when you help them, when you get to have a small part in their success or their survival or their safety, they’re, they’re you, you have a deep sense of purpose, a deep sense of value in your life, because it, your life is occurring in the context of other people versus your life occurring in the context of serving yourself and just accumulating or achieving or amassing more things for yourself.
RV (14:34):
Not bad, not wrong. I think what is wrong is we’re wrong about where we think happiness will come from. I’ve achieved enough, I’ve accomplished enough impossible goals as, as I teach in our Conquering Impossible Goals course, which is based on you know, our take the Stairs book. And, and there is this energy of, of, or that it takes to achieve a huge goal. That’s why it’s beautiful, and that’s why it’s helpful and it inspires other people. And you often help other people as a byproduct. Like being in your own greatness often inspires greatness around you. And so there is a beautiful byproduct to accomplishing things that are beyond your own wildest imagination, which is that the people around you become inspired by watching, and they start to believe that they’re capable of things themselves. So there’s a lot of value in that way as well, to achieving.
RV (15:23):
But, you know, in addition to that, or as a, as a clarification or a sharpening of that is realizing that happiness doesn’t come from those achievements. I mean, I can pull out, I can literally go pull out in, I, I mean, in, in our, like in our storage, I’ve got trophies of a New York Times bestselling author and being a Hall of Fame speaker and, and becoming the world champion of public speaking first runner up and, and valedictorian and you know, getting my b a when I was 23. Like, I have all of these trophies and plaques and titles and things, and they literally sit, they literally sit in storage, right? Because they don’t, they don’t give meaning to my life anymore. But you never run out of meaning when you’re serving people. You never run out of purpose when you’re helping other people. When, when his mom said, which was so profound that people die because they run out of purpose. They should never run out of purpose, because you only run out of purpose if you’re self-centered. You never run out of purpose if you’re service centered.
RV (16:33):
And this is, this is such a big lesson for personal brands specifically, or for leaders specifically, or for entrepreneurs specifically, because you go, y you, we have the good fortune and the blessing of not having to be worried about our survival. We have the good fortune and blessing of most of us having achieved some level of success. And so it’s like we’re moving from survival to success, to significance. It’s this journey, this transformation that we’re on. And we go, oh, how do I get to significance? I get to significance not by being more successful. I get to significance by being more service minded. That’s how I get to significance. I get to significance. I meaning I’m having longer term impact, longer term sustainability to my motivation, a, a a longer term evidence of my life. And my work mattered not because of what I achieved or a mass or accumulated for myself, but because of the value in the contribution that I made in the lives of other people.
RV (17:32):
And that is a life that is worth living, which means it’s a life that is, is not worth killing and not worth dying, because you always have something else to do. You’ve got somebody else to serve. You’ve got somebody else to help and, and somebody else to save and somebody else to help succeed. And, and, and, and somebody else to mentor and coach. And so for me, I think I have ended up finding power. The, like, I have found my purpose in the power of service. I find my purpose in the power of service. And I think achievement is good. Conquering is good. Prey is prey drive is good. A amassing accumulate. I think those, these are good things because they often empower you to, to be able to be in a position to serve other people, right? Like you can’t you know, you put on your mask first before you’re helping others around you.
RV (18:30):
But you should never run out of purpose because you’re never run out of people to, to, to serve. And and it reminds me, you know, when he said you know, that this idea of count your days that’s actually there. That’s, that’s based on scripture, okay? So this is, you know, I don’t, regardless of if you’re a Christian or not, but like, if you read the Bible in the ancient text, in the, in Psalms, it’s Psalms 90, I looked it up. I didn’t have it memorized, but I knew it was in there. And so I looked it up. So in Psalm chapter 90, verse 12, it says, teach us to number our days so that we may apply our hearts to wisdom. Teach us to number our days so that we may apply our hearts to wisdom. That’s exactly what Coach Burt was talking about, right?
RV (19:18):
Is he was going, man, when you realize that there’s a clock counting down on your life, and you just are aware of that fact of, gosh, there’s, there’s a, there’s a limited time I’ve got here, it creates a tremendous sense of urgency, right? And that’s how I feel. I don’t let one second of my day go by accidentally, even if I’m sitting on the couch doing nothing, I’m deliberately sitting on the couch doing nothing because I’m rejuvenating, right? Or I’m rewarding myself with something. Nothing in my life is accidental. Nothing is unintentional, like every single second. And it is, I’ve, I’ve always felt this extraordinary urgency, this extraordinary urgency on my life, not because I’m desperate to achieve and accumulate and have more, although I’ve had big goals, and I, you know, came from very, very little. And we’ve accumulated a whole lot more than I ever imagined, and, and certainly more than we need, like for our survival.
RV (20:15):
But like, I’ve, even with that, there’s this tremendous sense of urgency, because I know there’s somebody out there who needs help, and that’s what I want you to think about. And that’s the power of numbering our days. And I, I, I, I love that coach brought that up. And then, you know, seeing that reference directly also in, in scripture, and of, of the five that he shared, the five activators of prey drive, again, I, I, I really, I loved, I loved it. So go listen to the whole interview. But the fifth one was the one that hit me the hardest, which was about embarrassment, because it ties into everything we’re talking about here.
RV (20:57):
And when I think about purpose, right after I die, I don’t wanna get to the end of my life and meet the person that I could have been and be disappointed, right? I would be embarrassed by that. I would be embarrassed getting to the end of my life and then being able to see like, oh, this was everything I was capable of, and this is, this is, you know, like, this is what I was capable of. These are the blessings that I’ve been given, the time I had been given, the, the relationships that, the skills, the access to different things. This was everything I was capable of. And I fell so far short of that because I was lazy, or complacent or distracted, or I was indulgent. Like in going, I’d be so embarrassed, I’d be so disappointed.
RV (21:55):
But beyond that, it’s not just me, right? It’s going, I don’t wanna get to the end of my life and be able to look back and see all the people that I could have helped, see all the people that I could have made a difference with. See all the lives that I might have helped transform or even just shape a little bit to see everybody that I could have helped along in their journey. And, and at some point get to the end of my life and see all these people lined up on a wall and go look at all the people I missed because I was indulgent. Look at all the people I missed because I was lazy, looked at all the people I missed because I had too much pride, or because I was scared, or, or because I was distracted. That would be so heartbreaking, you know?
RV (22:41):
And most of all, at least for me, I don’t wanna get to the end of my life and meet my creator and say, here’s what I’ve done with what you’ve given me, and be embarrassed about that report, right? I’ve, I’ve been given so much, so many blessings. We all have. All of us, if you are listening to this, you have blessings in your life, if nothing other than the blessing to have access, to listen to this type of information from wherever you are, which is an incredible blessing. Just to have access to, you know, these types of trainings for free and from so many different, for so many different people, right? We all have blessings. And I would hate to, to show up for my final report and say, here’s what you’ve given me and here’s what I’ve done with it, and here’s what I’m capable of.
RV (23:41):
And there’s a giant gap I’d be embarrassed about that I, I’d be scared about that. I, I wouldn’t feel proud about that. And so whenever I die, however I die in whatever way that I die, I just want to, I wanna know that up until the very last possible moment that I, I was physically or mentally able, that every single last waking breath that I could possibly muster up, I was working in the pursuit of hum serving humanity, of helping humanity, of making a difference, of making an impact on other people, of, of, of serving those people who are in a struggle. And, and, and helping those people who are in different, difficult and challenging circumstances to conquer them and helping people who are facing obstacles to overcome them, and to go with every moment I had. And so, because at least then if I didn’t live up to my capacity, at least I can say I did everything I could, right?
RV (24:48):
Like, I, I took advantage of every single second serving the people around me in the best way I knew how. So I can at least come with a final report to go. I may have not lived up to my potential, but I did everything I could. Like, I, I did the best I knew how to do with what I had, and I helped every single person that I, I could, I could, you know, fathom within my abilities to try to help. But I know I never ran outta purpose. I ran outta life before I ran outta purpose, right? I didn’t run outta purpose, and that caused me to run outta life. That’s, that’s, that’s not gonna be it. That’s not gonna be me. That’s not how I’m going down. And maybe for you, it’s the same. So be competitive. Activate your pray drive. Listen to that interview with Coach Burt.
RV (25:42):
Send him some love on social. Let him know that you heard him here on our podcast. Share this episode and, and, and the interview with somebody that you think it can help activate your prey drive to, to go out and pursue. And, and, and, you know, these are, I think can be, you know, very similar messages is the instinctive ability to pursue service, right? For me, that is where the power is in these days. I have found my purpose and the power of service. But conquer and win and challenge and accumulate and AMAs and, and achieve, and push yourself to the limits and become a champion. And also serve others and help others. And don’t, don’t get law searching for happiness and achievement. Realize that happiness comes from service. Don’t ask what’s my purpose? Ask who can I serve. Thanks for letting me serve you. Thanks, you keep coming back, giving us this blessing and privilege. We appreciate you. We love you. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.
Ep 350: Activating Your Prey Drive with Micheal Burt
RV (00:07):
Hey, brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview. As always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions, and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to, to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do [email protected] slash pod call brand builders group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:54):
Nothing fills me up more than seeing our clients succeed. And one of the things that we’ve done a lot in the last few years as we’ve helped people with book launches, we actually just last week had our 11th client that has hit the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, or the U s A today bestseller list. And while we love pursuing bestseller lists, we also wanna remind people that bestseller lists don’t change lives, books do. And our job when we work with the client is to help them get their book into the hands of as many people as possible in a legitimate, ethical, impactful way that actually changes the world. And so occasionally on this show, we are able to have clients of ours who we feel like we have something to learn from and who we feel like you have something to learn from.
RV (01:42):
And that is the case here for sure, with Coach Burt, coach Micheal Burt. He usually goes by Coach Burt or just coach to a lot of people. And he is we met, he became a client of ours. We’re helping him with a book that he has coming out. The book is called Flip the Switch, and it is all about activating your prey drive. And when I say prey drive, it’s like p r e y. So this is something that he is the leading authority on this term, this concept about prey drive. He defines it as the instinctual ability to see something that you want and have the intensity to pursue it. So he was a former championship women’s basketball coach which we’ll talk about. He’s a 17 time author. And he has been hired by many of the top companies in the world, Dell Inc. State Farm Insurance, Vanderbilt University and others just around helping activate this drive in their teams, helping people to have more competitive intelligence. He’s been featured on shows like CNBC’s, the Prophet and Entrepreneur Magazine, and he’s just really a great guy. I’ve really enjoyed getting to meet him and I’m excited to learn from him. So coach, welcome to the show.
RV (02:57):
Excited to be here
MB (02:58):
With you. You, man, this is this is gonna be fun.
RV (03:01):
Yeah. So tell me quickly about your background as a basketball coach and the track record that you had there. Cuz I feel like that’s a Yeah, I was a basketball player and so I, you know, I understand that world. I think that’s an important part of, of the backstory.
MB (03:15):
Well, you know, I’m in Texas today in San Antonio when I was speaking at an event and, and a person just asked me, what really differentiates you from other speakers and coaches? And I said, well, everybody is differentiated by their unique past, their unique experiences, their unique education. And I started actual athletic coaching when I was 15 junior pro basketball. I was coaching in elementary team at 18. I was at Riverdale High School at 19 while I was in college. And I actually became the youngest head coach in the state of Tennessee at the second largest high school at 22. So I knew very early in life that I wanted to coach, but I was most fascinated by what I called inner engineering the players building competitive intelligence. So around 18, I went to a coaching clinic in Nashville at David Lipscomb University, and Don Don Meyer, the great coach at David Lipscomb, said, if you don’t read another book this year, pick up a copy of the seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
MB (04:11):
And I, at 18 years old, I went straight to the bookstore, I bought it, I became a huge disciple under Covey for the next seven years, where I really learned how to inter engineer whole person theory. I really mastered those seven habits and I began teaching my players those habits. So when you fast forward three or four years, I was really using a lot of business methodology, a lot of personal growth methodology with my players, way more than other people were. We were starting to win a lot of games. And so people were constantly asking me, what are you doing with the kids? And so at 25 years old, I wrote my first book called Changing Lives Through Coaching. That was 17 books ago. And I became kind of fascinated with just how do you activate a drive inside of a person? But that started as a decade as a head coach at Riverdale. We won the first of seven championships at that school. And you know, I kind of became known as this great coach that knew really how to get more out of people. That’s what people knew me for. So
RV (05:06):
You won seven state championships? I don’t want to like over that.
MB (05:11):
I, well, I built, what I did is it took me 10 years to build that place that never won a championship in 30 years. Okay. So I won the first Got it. And then I retired at 31 years old. They were going to win the next seven after I left.
RV (05:24):
Wow. Okay. So, so you were a state championship basketball coach. Yep. And, and you, you use this term competitive intelligence. Yeah. So what is that, what is that? And like define, define that for me.
MB (05:42):
Well, I think when you look at intelligences, you know, whether you study the work on intelligences, obviously there’s iq, there’s physical quotient, spiritual quotient, you know, there’s all these intelligences. And I really said what I was building in my players was what I called, I called a competitive intelligence, which was kind of a combination of intangible things. My players were smarter than other people’s players. They had more chemistry, they had more trust in buy-in. There were more intangible assets that you couldn’t measure, that my teams had discipline. And, and so I started calling that competitive intelligence. It’s like they just knew how to win at a higher level than other people knew how to win based on the unique methodology I was using to coach them, which came from my background with Covey. Right. Me studying under Covey, taking it and teaching my players was really building that competitive intelligence in my players.
RV (06:31):
Uhhuh
MB (07:34):
Well, most experts in the world have, have had a long cycle of building a primary skill, right? That’s the reason they’re experts, is they had a cycle of, of finding their primary skill, most likely packaging that skill, marketing that skill, and ultimately monetizing that skill. So that decade for me was in the trenches, in the laboratory, learning how to activate the prey drive in people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. D you know, high income class, low income class, one parent, no parents, two parents. I was really learning how to win at a very high level, but more importantly, how to take a person and get more out of them. Now, when I started writing books I’d had no intention of coaching adults, Rory, none whatsoever. I wanted to coach. I was gonna go to college. I was gonna be the next male pat summit.
MB (08:25):
I was gonna go on to coach at a major university. That was my trajectory. But when I started writing books people started calling me and said, Hey, will you come over and speak to my team? And it was companies like Dale, state Farm, national Healthcare, and I would just go speak for an hour and then go back to the players, right? Go back and coach. Well, I would go over and speak and they would say, we want you to come back. And I said, okay, what do you mean? I said, well, come back once a quarter, come back. And then people started saying, how much, how much would it cost for you to coach our people? And I had never really thought about that. So I’m like, man, I’m a high school coach. I’m trying to win championships. I really love the kids. I’m not interested in doing this. But, but the numbers was six figures. They would say,
RV (09:05):
But I can be bought. Let’s be clear. I love the kids. I love bad basketball, but like anyone, I can be bought. I mean, let’s be honest. I mean, that’s
MB (09:15):
RV (10:18):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (10:30):
Well, this is what I, this is what the, the whole new book is about, which is called Flip the Switch. I trademarked the two words, prey drive in humans an animal has a prey drive. It is the animal’s ability to stalk, capture, and kill prey. And g God gave me the gift of association. I can hear a concept, I can quickly associate deconstruct a concept, codify it, package it, and then deliver it in a way that activates something inside of another person. And so when I heard that word, pray, drive those two words, I’m like, you know, humans have a prey drive. I had this big revelation. I was with my wife at a, at a conference. The guy said, pray drive. I looked it up and I said, humans have a prey drive. It’s just not been activated. And so many people. And I told my wife, that’s, this is what I’ve been doing since I was 15 years old.
MB (11:16):
I just didn’t know I was looking for a new way to talk about an old thing, right? I was looking for some bja day. I was looking for a new way to talk about motivation. And so what I did is I studied the top 20 motivational theories. I deconstructed those theories. I then associated those theories with me. 30 years of me actually coaching all walks of life. I spent four years in the prison system rehabilitating maximum security offenders. I’ve coached multi-millionaires, I’ve worked with billionaires, I’ve worked with people just trying to get started. And I’ve kind of taken motivation and turned it into a science. So there’s three phases of this drive has to be activated. And, and in the book I talk about about five activators that I have seen. Once the prey drive is activated, then there must be a persistence to that prey drive to really accomplish something big. This is why mastery is so important. And then there must be an intensity to that prey drive, which is targets timelines, a game to play a scoreboard, right? And typically people fall off the wagon. So the first step is to figure out the three phases where people fall off the wagon and then to go to work on these five activators that I talk about in the book.
RV (12:21):
So you’re saying, so step one is it’s gotta be activated number, turn it on, flip the switch to use the title of the book, right? So we have to flip, we have to flip the switch, turn the prey drive on, then we need to do something about persistence, like to keep it going. And then you’re saying,
MB (12:38):
Oh, no refinement.
RV (12:39):
Okay. And then intensity, what you’re saying is like, intensity comes from like having a target or a goal or a timeline or you know, a competition or something like that. So yeah. So let’s talk about the, let’s talk about the activation. Cuz cuz you know, I, I have to say that it, it struck me once I understood actually one, once I saw the word p r e y, like when I saw it spelled out, it made more sense to me. And it caught my attention of like, you know, I associated it personally with like a killer instinct. And basically just like, yeah, some people are are turned off. They have no ambition, they have no drive, they have no pursuit. They have, they’ve, they’ve got, they’ve got nothing that they’re going after. And I think it’s, you know, there’s always there what a lot of people would say, you, you can’t motivate someone. The one thing you can’t do is, is motivate someone, which I’ve always struggled with. I don’t think I really ag I don’t, I don’t agree with that. I think there’s a number of things you can do. And I feel like you’re sort of saying the same thing here. So talk, talk to us about how to activate it and you know, and if you wanna run, let’s run through some of the activators about how to, how to flip that switch in ourself or our team or maybe a child, you know? But let
MB (14:00):
It flip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you, when you think about activating the prey drive it is, it is an instinct ability to pursue potential opportunity a better life, right? And most people, it has not been activated.
RV (14:16):
And you’re saying it’s instinctive. So you’re saying that we all have this somewhere deep down, turned off, buried, whatever you wanna say, but we all have the ability to, to pursue.
MB (14:29):
That’s correct. Yeah. I think if you look at kids, I have a two and a half year old son and a and a and a 12 week old daughter and a 10 year old daughter. And listen, they pursue, they see things they want and they pursue ’em, right? And, and what happens, I just coached a group of real estate agents today, insurance agents yesterday. You know, the best ones pursue opportunity, pursue deals, they follow up, they see something through to its conclusion. They understand they have to activate this drive every day. So when I looked at the five activators, I said, okay, what have I seen that activates people’s drive to want more, right? Cause satisfied needs never motivate, only unsatisfied needs. The reason we become complacent is because our needs are met. Okay? And that’s really, when you study the motivational theories, they all say the same thing.
MB (15:13):
We move toward things we want when we’re hungry, we moved toward food. When we’re lonely, we move toward people, right? We move toward things we want and what we think will make us happy. So when you think about activating, I started looking at this. Fear is a tremendous activator of prey drive, right? And, and psychologists would tell you when you’re afraid, you fight, you flee. Or there’s a third thing they’re now saying is you freeze. Which is what a lot of people are doing in today’s economy. They just freeze. They don’t do anything. Okay? So fear is an activator, a prey drive. When you are afraid of losing something, something that matters to you, it will activate your drive when you’re afraid of going broke, when you’re afraid of going back to the way you used to be when you’re like, fear can be one of the strongest drivers of a person’s prey drive.
MB (15:56):
Now here’s an example. In March of 2020, you’re in a very similar business that I’m in. Okay? I, I speak, I drive leads, we generate those leads to a coaching business, right? Lemme generate about 3000 leads every 90 days right now, well, in March of 2020, there was no speaking engagements. I was losing about a quarter of a million a month in my coaching business, right? And, and what happened to me is it activated a deep drive in me. It activated two things, a fear and a competitiveness in me, right? The, the old coach in me that didn’t like to lose came out. And the fear of losing everything I had worked 20 years to build, which was an incredible life activated my drive to such a freakish level. I just got to a whole nother level of push and energy and force and creativity.
MB (16:46):
And I actually needed that to activate that drive in me because I had been doing this 15 years and I need, I wouldn’t complacent, but, but there was another gear in me I hadn’t found yet. And through the fear of losing everything, the fear of going back, man, it activated my drive. So, so I push so hard that, you know, six months later in the middle of the pandemic, we did like 1.7, 1.8 million that month, which was a big month for my coaching business. But it all came outta fear. It really started with fear activating my prey drive. Not a lot of, but a lot of people contract when they have fear. High prey drive, people use fear as fuel. So fear is an activator or prey drive, typically fear of losing.
RV (17:24):
Yeah. I mean that like, you know, the, I the, the thing that popped into my mind was like you know, a mama bear, a mama bear kind of thing of like, you, you know, you see your kid getting attacked by, you know, some, some animal or whatever, and all of a sudden you just go savage, right? Like, you just go, you go on ’em. So that makes a lot of sense. That’s, that’s powerful. I, it, it also to me, like really reframes, you know, that, that, you know, there’s a healthy, very much a healthy side of, of fear beyond just staying, you know, safe, but like hitting that gear, hitting that gear. So okay, so fear, that makes sense. What are some of the other ones?
MB (18:04):
Competition is an activator of prey drive. When there’s an, when there’s an adversary, when there’s somebody to beat. When there’s somebody who doesn’t think you’re good enough when there’s a, you know, just any kind of competition can activate your drive, right? But, but competition, I’m a big believer that you need a game to play a trophy to win. If it’s, if it’s in your own, if it, if it’s in your own mind, you need, you know, speaking yesterday, and I was asking my coaching students if they thought I could convert 50% of the room or higher on purchasing the new book, flip the Switch, right? Uhhuh
MB (18:41):
I’m gonna, I’m gonna try to get 50% of the room minimum or higher when I go in and speak to this insurance group to buy the new book. Right? So it’s competition activated my prey drive cuz I’m a competitor. Okay? So competition is an activator. Now you mentioned something earlier, why is people’s prey drive not activated? I actually think it’s because they’ve not been exposed to what a better life would look like. Exposure is an activator, a prey drive. When I see something, when I’m exposed to something, when, when, when I, when I experience something that goes, oh, there’s a be there’s a, I could have a better life. I could stay in better hotels, I could drive a better car, I could live in a better house. I could go on better vacations. I could, right? Like exposure is a huge activator of prey drive. Cause I see something and it expands my mind and it’s like, man, I want that. I want a life like that. Okay, so environment is an activator, a prey drive. Does that because you’re in an environment,
RV (19:37):
Are you saying, so it is environment number four, or are you saying exposure environment? So exposure is, is
MB (19:44):
Number three, environment number
RV (19:46):
Four.
MB (19:47):
Yep. Gotcha. Environment is four. Meaning there’s expectation. Think about playing at Alabama or Georgia. Think about where there’s an environment of expectation. Think about like, when I was a coach, we created this environment that we’re the best high standards similar language lots of accountability, right? Identity teaching people, Hey, we’re the best at what we do. Personal pride being in environments, they just bring out the prey drive in you, right? And then fifth would be embarrassment. This is what I write about.
RV (20:17):
So hold on ho hold on. Embarrassment. I wanna talk about that. But, but the environment one is interesting to me because it’s like winning is such a culture, right? Yeah. And losing is also a culture like you, I think of like Coach K at Duke or you know, the Yankees or the Patriots or Alabama, right? Like they, they win consistently. And, and I remember seeing a study, I, man, I wish, I wish I would’ve documented where this was, but I remember seeing a study and they were studying very, very like wealthy, successful people. And they were looking for what these people have in common. And they found that like the number one thing that all these people had in common was that they believed they were supposed to be successful because they had been told their whole life in our family, we’re successful, our family is smart, our family is wealthy, our our family is intelligent.
RV (21:17):
And they basically like adopted that as a belief system and then it became their reality and it was completely manufactured by the environment. Yep. And similarly you know, there’s, well, there’s I think it’s in the book Freakonomics, it’s either Freakonomics or tipping point. I think it’s Freakonomics where they talk about how in New York City there’s all this terrible crime. And you know, like at the, when you go into the train station if, if the little turn style doesn’t, you know, work, like if you jump over it, you don’t have to pay. You just jump over and then hop on the train. And they were talking about how, you know that good people who would normally pay stopped paying because so many bad people were just like jumping over the thing. And so they were like, well, I’m not gonna pay if no one else is paying. Where normally that would be like a good person. And just like, so it works in the other direction too. I mean, I, I think that people really underestimate this one.
MB (22:19):
I, I do too. Because look at, look at people working from home today. And there are a percentage of people who can activate their prey drive daily. But I would tell you, because we went from working in offices to home, I would tell you that we’re a lot more productive when we’re together, when there’s an environment. That’s why I’m building a greatness factory in downtown Nashville, which is a place where you go to work, learn, grow, connect, you’re going there to be great. It’s called the Greatness Factory. It’s not called the complacency factory. And so, so you know, it, it’s this place of energy. It’s like, man, I wanna work at the greatness factor where the energy’s good and there’s environment. And when I’m in town, I lead sales rallies and every, every tenant gets access to my coaching programs. And they can use the auditorium and the podcast studios and writes a little city.
MB (23:05):
But there’ll be a lot of environment activators of prey drive. Cuz I’m working at the greatness factory. I wanna go to work. So environment, that was a big one that I built as a coach. You know, when I went to Riverdale, they had never won a championship in 30 years. I mean, it was 1979. I had to really build an environment. So we redid the locker rooms, we w we changed uniforms to nicer uniforms. We, we redid the hallways. We put big things of we’re the best. I brought in gold you know, rings, championship rings for the players to wear gold ball balls in there for them to see what they look like. A lot of visualization on what it’s like to be a champion. It took me 10 years of sowing this into my players. But over a tenure cycle, they begin to believe we’re the best.
MB (23:49):
And when you’re here, we activate the prey drive. Now people do not wake up with their prey drive activated. I tell people this when I speak, I just, because I write motivational books, just cause I wrote this book does not mean I wake up with my prey drive activated. I wake up just like everybody else does. Sometimes I’m tired, sometimes I’m irritable, sometimes I’m frustrated. Right? And so I, I teach in the book, how do you activate it every day? How do you go into battle every day? Right? King David was a great king in the Bible until he stopped going into battle, right? And his own troops talked him outta going into battle, right? We’re at our best when we are pursuing, when we are engaging, when we are in the game. This is why retirement is such a bad idea for people. Cuz they quit pursuing their potential.
MB (24:31):
They make themselves not as valuable in the world because, because they basically said, I’m used up. Right? I don’t have anything to pursue. So environment is important. And then the fifth one is embarrassment. And I don’t use embarrassment as a coach, like negative. And some coaches do, they talk the way they talk to people. I don’t do that. I talk to people from an affirmative perspective. Like, you know, Rory, help me to understand, man, you’re the best. I brought you here because you’re the best in the world at what you do, man. You have a pure, unique ability and unique talent. Help me to understand why you’re not playing at the level you’re really capable of playing. Help me to understand why you’re doing four deals a month when you could be doing 12 deals a month. Help me to understand why you’re doing this versus this. I I speak to people in a way that they go, you know what? This is embarrassing. The way I’m playing at the level I’m playing is embarrassing to me and I wanna play at a higher level. So that’s the way I talk about embarrassment in the book is you look at yourself versus your potential and you go, man, I’m not even close to where I’m capable of doing and I want to do better. I want a better life. I want him to level up.
RV (25:36):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (26:11):
Yeah.
RV (26:12):
And he said, I would be so embarrassed to my friends, to my family, to God, to myself. I’d be so embarrassed that I never lived up to Yeah. What I was capable of. I mean, it’s just I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone use that in a positive way. And now here today, twice in the same, in the same day. Like, that’s really powerful.
MB (26:36):
Well, I’m glad you said that because I actually take a contradictory view in the book of finding your Why. Chapter three of, of this new book is called Screw Your Why. And it’s called that because I actually, you know, I’ve coached people for 31 years. I think it’s a great book. I think Simon Sinek is a, a genius. However, having said that, I do not believe a person has to find their why to do something big in the world. I actually believe your purpose finds you when you are taking action and pursuing a curiosity, pursuing a, something you’re fascinated by. So I believe in something called because goals. See, you just said it about Matthew McConaughey. A because goal is a big reason that you do something even when you don’t feel like it. Okay. Be because if I don’t work hard, I’ll be embarrassed because I grew up without my dad.
MB (27:28):
I wanna be a good dad to my kids. Because right when they asked Tom Brady why he played so hard in the Super Bowl where they came back when they were down 30 something points at halftime to the Falcons, he said, because my mom was dying of cancer and I flew her in for this game, and I didn’t wanna lose the super goal Super Bowl with my mom in the stance. See what I talk about in the book are these because goals and a because goal was a big reason. Because I make the argument that you can know your purpose and still not be motivated. Your prey drive still not be activated. I could know I’m supposed to coach people today, but when it came time for me to go motivate those real estate agents today, what if I didn’t feel like it because a coach poured into me when I was six years old changed my life.
MB (28:09):
I made up my mind I was gonna spend the rest of my life pouring into other people. Because, because I see myself as the best at what I do because I don’t wanna be embarrassed by my performance. See, this is a because goal. And when I know a person’s because goal and I know the activator, the primary activator of their prey drive, I can really help a person get to a higher level. Because you and I both coach wealthy people. I mean, I’ve coached people making five or 600,000 a month, a million a month, 3 million a month, they still lost a prey drive. So it’s not about them versus the money, it’s about them versus their potential, them versus what they’re really capable of doing. And I need to know their, because goals on why they would want it and why they would want play at a higher level.
RV (28:50):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (30:12):
Like, that’s that, that activated, but that activated his prey drive. See, see when, when somebody shook Michael Jordan’s hand and said, good game. It infuriated him that activated his prey drive when George Carl didn’t acknowledge Michael Jordan at the restaurant the night before. They played the supersonics, it infuriated Jordan, it activated his prey drive. Like he, he, he looked for things like, like when you say something to a guy like Millet, who is, who is, is incredible from stage and getting better every time. Like every time he gives the presentation, he’s better and better and better and better. You know, that activates his prey. Drive that desire to be the best, that competition to be known as the best activates prey drive. You know? And that’s what, so you can see it once you have a, an anchor to it, what prey drive is, which is that, that killer instinct. See that moment you felt that killer instinct to my left, and you don’t get to my let’s level without having that instinct, right? Yeah. So, so it’s like you, that one statement, boom, flip the switch. And that’s really what I think a good coach does. Sometimes. It’s, it’s something they say that activates something inside of a person.
RV (31:15):
Well, well, I certainly wasn’t doing it on purpose. I was an accident. He, he, but he, he he, he, he, he, it just shows you the level of intensity that he operates at. And I, and I, I want to ask you about intensity before we go, but before, before we do that so you’ve mentioned this, we’ve been talking about flip the switch. Okay. We’ve kind of gone through these five activators, but there’s a whole system here for, you know, basically activating this, sticking with it. I wanna talk a little bit about intensity, but where do, where should people go coach if they wanna pick up a copy of the book?
MB (31:49):
Well, if they go to my website, coach bird.com and click on that, you can pre-order the book. When you do pre-order the book. We’re giving you a lot of things, including two full days of coaching with me, one on visionary that’s coming up quick, and one on January 13th called Activate, which is a full day. We also give you 90 days of pre drive for lunch, what I call pre drive for lunch, which are 90 days of sessions with me for 90 days. And, and a breakdown of the book on video of me breaking the book down and kind of a masterclass. So they go to coach bird.com, they can click there, take ’em to Amazon purchase it, and then they come back and show us where they purchased it to get all the freebies.
RV (32:27):
Mm-Hmm.
MB (32:50):
Yep.
RV (32:50):
Which, you know, is what it is. But I’ve also been in, you know, some circles that talk about enoughness and going, okay. Is, is, is there ever a point where you have enough to where you go, Hmm, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve got enough. Like I don’t, I don’t need to keep chasing, I don’t need to keep, like, always moving the goalpost, so to speak. So I’m cur I’m curious about your assessment on either the balance of enoughness with intensity, or do you not, do you, do you not really believe in enoughness at all? Or like, just what’s your, what’s your personal philosophy there about intensity, you know, like intensity and rest or intensity and enoughness not, I mean, obviously you don’t believe in complacency, complacencies the enemies. Yeah. Sounds like. Yeah. But, you know, how do you reconcile that? Or, or is that not really the concern? Because, you know, people spend plenty of time resting and they need to get more time getting their butt in gear. Like, I’m just curious of your thoughts.
MB (33:51):
Yeah, I, I do believe in rejuvenation, which means to make young again. So I operate very much like an athlete, artist, entertainer. I rest, I practice and I play. And when I play, I wanna play at such a high level that it’s deeply impactful to people. But to play at that level, you need rest, you need rejuvenation. So I, I completely believe in that. I typically take one day off per week, just like the Bible says. I typically take one day where I do nothing. Okay. And, and just to myself now to your question about complacency, which is a gradual settling to a place of mediocrity. Mediocre meaning halfway up the mountain, you’re gradually settling to go halfway up the mountain. My mom has been a nurse her whole life and she worked a percentage of her life in nursing homes, taking care of elderly.
MB (34:38):
And I asked her one day, why did people pass away at the end of their life outside of just natural causes? And she gave me three reasons. She said, number one, they run outta money. And when they run outta money, they run outta good care. There’s one nurse for every 23 residents in a nursing home. She said, number two, they run out of love. Nobody comes to see ’em. The only love they get is from the other residents and the people who take care of them. The family forgets about ’em. She said, but the real reason they pass away is they run out of purpose. They don’t have something to get up and pursue. And I saw that with my own grandfather. He retired, he worked his whole life on a farm. He loved it. Get up and work at build houses. He was, he became a single digit millionaire in his life.
MB (35:18):
I mean, he, he was an entrepreneur and then he decided to retire. And my mother said as almost as if the day after he retired, everything in his life went downhill. His mind went downhill, his health went downhill. And then we spent all of the money that he had earned in his life to take care of him 24 hours a day for the rest of his life. And so the, the, the point here of why people watching this should be interested and have an intensity is that you don’t wanna run out of purpose. And, and the prey drive is pursuing something that is meaningful to you. Right now, the average person, average females live into 78 years old. Average average females living to 82, average males living into 78. Put that in number of days you have left on planet Earth. And that will build an intensity in you. Cuz it ain’t a lot of days, right? I’m 46, you look at what, 15,000 more days. If I live to be that age, that builds intensity. I got a long way to go in a short time to get there. Big goals, big goals, big because goals, and that is where the intensity comes from, is I got something big to do on planet Earth while I’m here.
RV (36:22):
I love it. I love that. So powerful coach. Thank you for this. We’ll link up to coach burt.com. Y’all can go there. And yeah, I’d say go check it out, even if you’re not gonna buy the book. Go look at what coach is doing. And the way that we’ve got this whole book launch structured, he’s, he’s following the brand builders method, right? He’s got a lot of, a lot of insane bonuses he’s giving away. He’s really, really overdelivering. So head over to coach burt.com, check that out. Coach, we want the best for you, man. We’re good. We’re excited to be on your team, we’re pulling for you. And thank you for helping us all activate this part of our life.
MB (36:59):
Well, and I think the people out there, let me say this, it’s been a, a absolute pleasure and honor working with Rory. And for those, for those out there watching, he cares deeply about the people he works with. He, he goes above and beyond on what’s asked. He continues to follow up and texts and coach. And if you’re out there thinking about doing this, it’s been a, it’s been a very first class experience for us. So thank you for that. Thank you for believing in me and helping us to hit this hit this list that I know that we’re gonna hit.
RV (37:26):
All right, my friend. So yeah. We’ll everyone stand by for that coach. We’ll catch you next time. Thanks for being here.
MB (37:32):
All right. Thank you, big guy.
Ep 349: 3 Things To Consider If You Want To Write A Book | Bob Wheatley Episode Recap
AJV (00:00):
So I was having a conversation earlier this week with a friend who is a first time author, and we got to talking about all the, you know, exciting parts and challenging parts of being a first time author. And so I thought I would record just a, uh, quick recap of some of the highlights of this conversation that I had, because if you’re listening to this and you are a first time author that you know, you’re just on the precipice of getting your first, first book out into the world, or even if you’re an aspiring author or a maybe one day, that might be something I wanna do, type of one day author. I think this is really applicable to you. And even if you’re a second or third time author, I think there’s some nuggets in here that would be really helpful to you. And, um, so here are some of the highlights from this conversation, uh, that I had.
AJV (00:56):
So, first thing that I think would be really helpful if you’re considering, uh, writing a book or you just finished and you are in this kind of like first author category, is you’ve gotta consider three things. Um, as you’re launching your first book. One, it’s, you have to have a quality product. Um, and that’s a given, right? So, uh, don’t produce crap content
AJV (01:47):
Or You need to write a book? And they’re going, it’s just not time yet. And it’s been a 5, 10, 15 year journey for some people because they know that the book is the last thing you do, not the first thing you do. Once you have proven content that can really make a change, that can really help someone and that can really make an impact. So you gotta have a great product that’s a given, right? Um, but the second thing is you have to have a good plan. Um, so many of us think that you write a great book, it’ll just sell itself. No, it won’t
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Also a plan for marketing and promoting the book to get it in the hands of the people who need it. So you need a great product, you gotta have a good plan, but then also you gotta have a platform. You have to have a place where you can actually talk about this product, which is your book, right? And it doesn’t mean you have to have hundreds of thousands or millions or even tens of thousands followers online. It just means you’ve gotta have a platform of loyal and en unengaged audience. And that could be in the hundreds, seriously. Um, it just, you gotta have a platform of people that you have identified that you can help, and that this content is meant to help them. And you have a plan of how you’re going to get it in front of those people. And that could be through audio, that could be on podcasts, it could be on videos and YouTube and Instagram on social media, but there’s a whole world offline, right?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Does not have to be just online. So it’s, are you gonna do a book tour? Are you gonna go to local bookstores? Are you gonna do speaking events? Are you gonna do a launch party? Are you gonna go speak at your churches, kids, schools, whoever will have you, chambers of commerce, business journals, whoever. Um, but it’s like, do you have a platform to get it out there? So a great product, a great plan, but then also you’ve gotta have a platform, right? And I think that’s a really important thing to talk about, um, because so many people just talk about the content or they talk about hitting some list. And both of those are just pieces of a really important puzzle, which is, I bet that if you have a desire to write a book or you have written a book, it’s because you, you believe that it can actually help someone, right?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
And, and that is deservative of these three things that require your attention, a really good product, your content, a really good plan, um, and then a platform of people who need to hear about it, right? So, um, those are just kind of like high level three things that I think are really important. But in addition to that, I’m just kind of looking at my notes here, here are some of the other things that I think is really important, um, to just to remember as you are writing your first book, and this is really a conversation for that first time or aspiring first time author. Um, and the first thing is you just have to do it, right? There’s so many people who go me one day, well, it’s like, no, just one day. You just gotta do it. So you just have to start writing.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And it doesn’t have to be perfect because it’s not going to be, it’s not going to be awesome, right? So just focus on saying it ugly first. Just get it on paper. Uh, you know, we have this saying, um, my husband Roy and I always say there is no, uh, good writing, only good editing. There are no good writers, only good editors. And so don’t worry about if it’s good or if it sucks, just get it on paper because then you can go back and edit it and rewrite and rewrite and re-edit again and again and again to make it good. But you have to have something to start with.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So you just have to start riding and expect the first round to be bad
Speaker 3 (06:44):
No, don’t even send it out to 10 and goes, I hope somebody likes it or somebody will give me some constructive, you know, criticism. Find three or four people who you value their feedback, who have been where you want to be. So who have done this process or who fit your core target audience, your avatar. And actually give it to a very few group of people who you’ll entrust that will actually lead it, actually spend time on it because they want to help you. They want to see this succeed, they wanna see you succeed, but they will also give you the hard but necessary input and feedback to make it better, while also encouraging you along the way. Um, and that’s a diligent process, and it should be a select and small group of people. And this is what my friend Bob said. He said, don’t waste your editors, right?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Don’t waste ’em. Um, you don’t need feedback from dozens or, you know, even, you know, half a dozen people. You need a good set of feedback from three or four people who can actually provide you with real insights that will make a real difference. So don’t waste your editors, don’t waste those big asks. Find a small group of people who will actually go through this and give you the real feedback that you need to make your writing to make your content better. And then last but not least, and you know, we could say this on every single thing in business or in life, is don’t forget to get a coach or a mentor. Find someone to emulate, right? There are so many people who have been through this process. You do not have to go it alone. You do not have to figure it out alone,
Speaker 3 (08:21):
That actually makes no sense to me. So find someone, a mentor, a coach, um, maybe it’s a, you know, a volunteer friend. Maybe it’s someone you pay, but find someone who has been through this process who can guide you through the ups and downs, the peaks and valleys, um, the parts that you know about, the parts that you don’t because there’s a lot of both. Um, and just find someone that you can emulate and who can help mentor you through this process. If it’s free, great if it’s paid, great too. But invest the time, money, resources, and attention that it requires. If this is something that you really wanna do,
Speaker 4 (08:54):
And if you’re not willing to do those things, then it’s probably just not time, and that’s okay too. So anyways, I just thought this was a really great conversation and there were some really big important things. And as we start the new year, I thought these would be awesome takeaways and highlights for anyone who is going, man, a book is on my goal list for this year. I really wanna get that book out. These are things that you should consider as you get through the process of getting that first book out into the world. So good luck, God speed. We’ll see you later.
Ep 348: Tips for the First Time Author with Bob Wheatley
AJV (00:53):
Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode on the Influential Personal brand. This is AJ Vaden here, and I am here today with a very good close personal friend and a fellow brand builder and actually a client turned team member, which is very unusual and very rare for us to have someone like Bob Wheatley on the show today. But we just felt like this was too good of an opportunity to pass up. And so before we get into the details of this interview, I wanted to kinda tell you why you need to stick around for the entirety of this interview. And ultimately, if you have ever had a dream of writing a book, this is the interview for you. Or if you are in the process of perhaps writing your first book or trying to land a book deal or trying to get your book published, or you’re just starting to ideate around this, like, I’m going to do this now, how do I get it in the hands of somebody that it can impact?
AJV (01:56):
This is for you. Or perhaps you have even published your first book and now you’re wondering, how do I sell this
AJV (02:55):
Louis Cardinals and l y’all listen, like that is like no joke. Like to learn about the rigor and the expectations, and quite honestly, the passion and the lack of pay often associated with professional sports. One of the things that I know is that what you’re going to learn about here is some true hard work. This is not fluff. These are the real things that it takes to get real things produced in the real world. These are not get rich quick gimmicks. This is not how do you sell a million books in 30 days? But this is the real work that it takes because that’s what he is been putting in for his entire life, and that is no different than what you’re gonna hear on this show right now. So without further ado, Bob, welcome to the show.
BW (03:42):
What an introduction
AJV (03:52):
We’re so happy to get to be able to do this and a part of why we were so excited to have Bob as a guest on the influential personal brand is because he is a first time author and he just published his first book and it’s going out. It’s going to be available for presale right now, but it’s launching in January of 2023. So as you’re listening to this you have an opportunity to get your hands on this amazing book that we’re gonna talk about but also is because we’ve been able to walk side by side along with Bob and watch the journey of idea to book, to publishing, to holding it in our hands of going, this is a reality and this can happen. And it wasn’t that long, truly. And so we thought this would be amazing opportunity for all of those first time authors or aspiring authors to go, how do I do this?
AJV (04:46):
But then also, we’re just so excited of you for or for you, and we’re so proud of the work that you’re doing. So this is also just a really special moment that we get to celebrate some real life hard work that we get to see firsthand. And so here’s my first question that I have for you, and I pinged you with this earlier. It’s why write a book, right? Because
BW (05:30):
Yeah, totally. And but before I answer that, let me just say, it’s kind of surreal for me to be sitting here cuz if you’re a member, I became a brand builder’s client first I found you guys through the podcast. It was just a friend referred the influential personal brand. Like, Hey Bob, you’re thinking about writing the book. I know you’re in the podcasting space. These guys are doing some awesome stuff. Check out this podcast. So it’s cool for me because I was listening to you guys for a while, you know, on the other end of this show. Now to be sitting here with you personally is just so, so cool. Oh,
AJV (06:01):
I didn’t even know
BW (06:02):
Share that. I, yeah, I was a, I was a podcast listener subscriber, the whole deal. But as far as why write the book, cuz you’re right, there’s so many ways that you can go when it comes to a personal brand or even just having a message to share. I think for me personally, I was always a reader, like when it comes to playing professional baseball, spending time in the minors, we have this saying, hurry up and wait. There’s just so much downtime. And so it’s either you’re playing cards with your buddies, you’re scrolling your phone, or for me, you know, you’re, you’re reading. So most of the stuff that I was reading while I was playing was nonfiction. It was mental game, it was mindset, it was health, nutrition, weightlifting. Like, I just wanted to throw baseballs as fast as I possibly could cuz I wanted to get to the big leagues.
BW (06:50):
But I was reading, I was constantly around it. And so you’re, you’re right that I could get a message out in any number of forms, but I’ve always been a reader. And I grew up in a house of attorneys, oddly enough, my dad’s an attorney, my brother, my sister, my grandfather, two uncles and an Aunt
AJV (07:51):
That’s good. Here we have it. You know what’s interesting is as we come to a close on the year 2022, I have shared this with many people that I’ve encountered over the last few months, that this has probably been single-handedly the best year of my life. Both personally and professionally, but not because something extraordinary happened in our business. Although there’s lots of successes, but there’s been lots of ups and downs, or there wasn’t something extraordinary that happened in my personal life. But this year has been the single most 40 year of my life because of my commitment, my recommitment to personal development. And I am finishing my 15th book of the year. I’ve got just, I don’t know, maybe a third of the this last book I’m reading called Live No Lies by John Mark Comer that I had the opportunity made my, made the opportunity for myself.
AJV (08:47):
I read through the entire Bible this year and then read 15 books. And I, I shared this with Rory about halfway through the, the year this year. And I said, I think I forgot the power that a book has to change a life. And I am just a firsthand example of that this year. And you could ask anyone who is super close to me. I am a different person today than I was 12 months ago. And it is because of the books that I have just completely committed my life to just being in positive reading and filling my mind with things that are gonna help me versus potentially harm me. And it’s, I had just, I have fallen back in love with the power of the written word. And there’s nothing wrong with a short form content and a blog or a social media post or a podcast.
AJV (09:40):
But one of the things that I thought about this year is I do a lot of podcasting and write blogs and write social media posts. And I can tell you right now, the amount of time that I put into my podcast prep or blog prep or social media prep is teeny tiny. But the amount of time and preparation and thought that is required, that is mandatory to write a good book takes a lifetime. And I forgot about that until I have like, been so transformed by books this year. And it’s, it’s one of the reasons why I wanted, I wanted to ask that question because I think there’s just, people have forgotten the amount of preparation and editing and re-editing that it takes to like, make a book a book, and we kind of get consumed with that short form content or pop it in our ear of going, man, we just whipped that out,
BW (11:01):
Yeah. Well I, and I’m so glad you you said that not necessarily about me. I’m saying I have that, I’ve had that same experience where as I’ve written more, I’ve become a much better reader mm-hmm. Because I’m, I’m so grateful for the work that these men and women have put in on those books. Like when I was in the, in the buses, in the locker rooms of the minor leagues reading book after book after book, I really didn’t care. It was, or I wasn’t as grateful as I should have been. Now after having spent two and a half years writing a book, writing, rewriting, editing, throwing stuff away, like there, there is so much that goes into a book just because it is, it’s so complex. And of course it depends on the project, but by and large you have to write 200 pages. That makes sense.
BW (11:50):
Yeah. You know, and you’re sharing like this’s just thousands upon thousands of your own words. And you’re right, like when it comes to a podcast, you and I are having a conversation, we’re keeping it casual. We could pause the whole deal when it comes to a book. It is set in stone mm-hmm.
AJV (12:52):
I have a girlfriend who is just, she’s incredible, her name’s Victoria Jackson. And she hand wrote both of her first books. And I was like, what, what does that mean? And she was like, what do you mean, what does it mean? I had some paper and a pen or a pencil. And I was like, what?
BW (13:11):
That is wild. I couldn’t imagine that my two year book would’ve taken two decades. That’s crazy.
AJV (13:20):
So, okay, well on the topic of getting this book out there and for all of you who are listening, who are these first time authors? I think there’s some really strategic questions that we wanna dive into today. That would just help anyone who is listening in a universal kind of perspective shift and all the different ways that you can actually write a book. Because if you are going about writing a book, there’s a few different ways you can do it, right? There’s the traditional path, right? You’re gonna try to work with a p a traditional publishing house, which means you probably need an agent. They’re gonna have, you’re gonna have a book deal, you’re gonna have a book proposal, you’re gonna do the whole thingy, right? Then there’s the opposite of that, which the self-published route, right? And I always use this example how Elrod, right?
AJV (14:00):
People always go, well, self-published, like is it really gonna get distribution? Well, it’s like he’s now sold 2 million copies of the Miracle Morning. So yeah, self-published can work just fine, right? But you’ve got that where you’re doing all of it and you’re paying for it up front, but you’re keeping all the money on the back end. But then you kinda have this middle world, which is this hybrid model that has really come on strong in the, on the scene in the last 10 years where it’s, it’s like a traditional publishing hat publishing house because they can do some of the design and the editing and the distribution, but yet it’s more like a self-publish route in terms of you’re gonna keep and retain the rights and the money to your book. And so walk us through what did you do? How did you go through that decision making process and what has that decision been like for you?
BW (14:47):
Yeah, definitely. So I ended up taking that middle route. I did the, the hybrid model that you were describing where self-publish the book with an agent. So we call it agent led publishing. And when it comes to the traditional route, I mean, it’s called traditional for a reason. That’s how it used to be. But honestly, self-publishing is becoming so good these days. Not only in terms of the, the product, but the amount of people that are doing it. It’s not like the little kid brother like, oh, you self-published, ha ha ha. Like, you can, you can have a really solid product if you sell publish. And so for me personally, the traditional route wasn’t really in the cards. And I say that was for two reasons. One externally and one internally. The external would be I just didn’t have the platform. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (15:51):
We pause right there just for a second? Yeah, please. I think there’s a couple of nuggets in there that is really important. And we were having this chat before I hit record around how it really isn’t the New York Times, you know, best written book. It’s the New York Times best selling book. There’s a hundred
BW (16:09):
Percent
AJV (16:10):
Called that. And you know, it’s like any chart that you look at is not really a, a critical claim on the quality of the book. It’s how well did the book sell, how well was it marketed? And you mentioned something that I think is really unique. It’s like, I didn’t have the platform to attract a big publishing house. And so can you tell us a little bit about like, what your platform was and and then I can share, you know, feedback of like, we had, we experienced the exact same thing when we were initially trying to shop and get our books sold. But talk a little bit about this platform size and why traditional publishers lean into that. And then what was your size at the time? Just give some, you know, context for everyone who’s listening.
BW (16:55):
I mean, if you think about it, these are for-profit businesses. So if they had to choose between publishing Bob’s book or Barack Obama’s new memoir, like, duh, of course, of course they’re going with, with the president. So in terms of my platform, like even today, I probably have about 10,000 followers between all of my socials. That’d be LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, I might be a little over that, but it’s not hundreds, not hundreds of thousands. Not even close. So small fish in that pond. So I could write this amazing book. Wow, this is the best we’ve ever read. Not that anybody said that, I’m just saying in theory. And, you know, they, they still wouldn’t take my call mm-hmm.
BW (17:49):
Like she, she read one chapter of my book and there was enough to warrant a, a phone call and we’re actually on Zoom and you know, we, we talked for 20 minutes or so, and then I was so glad that I was prepared for this. She asked me, what’s the next book? I was like, let me, let me show you. And so I have it, you know, I have all the files ready to go and pulled up and like, I had already written like 20,000 words of my next book. That was all thanks to honestly my brand builder’s training. So the fact that I am like, you only get that phone call once because my agent, she’s a, as a Christian podcaster and author, she’s like on the Mount Rushmore of the Christian publishing world. Like she is, she is a baller. And so she represents all these amazing authors. She’s 80 New York Times bestsellers. And she said, Bob will take a chance on you. And I think part of that, a writing something
AJV (18:45):
As a compliment to you, please, but then a reminder to everyone else is having quality content is a prerequisite, it’s a requirement, right? That’s not what gets you published. That’s not what gets you an agent. That’s the expectation of it has to be good, it has to have value, it has to exceed the value that I thought I was going to get in this chapter. And that’s, that’s just like basic level, nothing more than that. Everything above that is how are you going to distribute this, right? But I think that’s really important around, it’s like, you know, there is this weird mix of how am I gonna sell the book and how am I gonna market the book? And also how do I make sure this book provides value that has the power to help and change the reader, right? And I think that that’s not something we wanna skimp over of going, you know, this is something we say often at Brain Builders Group is that the book is always the last thing you do, not the first thing you do, it’s the culmination of years and stories and experiences and data and research and all the things.
AJV (19:57):
It’s not the first thing you do, it’s the last thing you do because, you know, this is, this is, this is the, the summation of everything. It’s not the hypothesis. And so the fact that you did that and you had quality work is what even got you the call, right? And so, just for everyone listening, it’s like focusing in on the content and making sure it is value rich and value written like that is, don’t get us wrong when we say it’s a New York Times best selling author and you gotta sell it and promote it and market it. Yes. That’s how you get in the hands of people. But if you really wanna work with people and you really wanna provide value, it’s the content has got to be life changing.
BW (20:38):
Totally. And that’s exactly what she shared with me. She said, typically, whether it’s her criteria or even a, a traditional publisher, they look at three things. They look at the product, they look at the plan, and they look at the platform. Mm-Hmm.
BW (21:27):
We actually have one, like, like you said, it’s not, you know, New York Times best, best writing, it’s New York Times best Selling. So here’s my selling plan. And then the platform, I probably failed that test, but again, it’s two of the three Perfect World. You have all three and then you know, you it’s gang busters and you sell millions of books. That’s awesome.
AJV (22:15):
Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s really significant too. Like, there’s just so many nuggets. If you’re not writing down notes, I would encourage you to like write down some notes because these are some really significant nuggets too. It’s that, and I think so often somehow we just think we’re gonna send a bunch of cold pitches and send out a bunch of chapters and we’re gonna just like network wor network our way in through social media or through our content. And unless you have a massive platform, that is likely not the way you’re going to get to partner with an agent or a publishing house. But the most likely way is that you put on your sales hat and you work your personal, you know, sphere of influence and you figure out who knows someone who knows someone who maybe even knows someone who could get me a call, right?
AJV (23:03):
And it’s like, do not disregard the importance of the statement that Bob just made as I had a friend who knew this person who could refer me in. We all know someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone, right. Seven degrees of Kevin Bacon. But we, we’ve gotta be confident enough, inspired enough that what we’re doing means something to actually say, Hey, I’m willing to go out on a limb here. I’m gonna ask for this. Why? Because I’m so convicted in what I’m talking about. I’m so passionate about this that I can’t not, right? I can’t contain it. I can’t keep it in. I have to get it out there. And we all need a little bit more of that if this is something that we really wanna go after, because that’s how it’s most often going to happen, right? It’s a referral in. It’s taking that, you know, sales mindset and going, who do I know? Who knows someone who can help get me connected to the right person? Right? Totally.
BW (24:02):
As far as what we can control, I think that’s absolutely the way to go. Part of it is, you know, divine providence. And if, if God has good works prepared for us, I think he’ll open the doors that need to be open, shut the doors that need to be shut. But yeah, we have a responsibility as well. You’re absolutely right.
AJV (24:19):
Yeah. It’s that, you know, that whole saying, it’s like let God do what he can do and let you know you do what you can do. Right. And it’s like we both have a role to play. I can’t just sit here and say, bring it to me
BW (25:02):
Yeah, totally. So when it comes to self-publishing versus traditional, one of the value add is you retain all of the rights of your book. Whereas with traditional publishing, it’s typically the large pop. You know, you make six figures for some people, I mentioned Barack Obama probably a seven figure advance. Like that’s pretty sweet. That’s a, that’s a big deal. But then when it comes to the, the commissions thereafter, like you’re basically making a dollar a book forever. Once you earn out that advance, they pay you,
AJV (25:34):
You sell a lot
BW (25:35):
BW (26:22):
People can then say, oh, well he’s working with her. Oh, well te tell me more about this guy. Cuz I’ve never heard of him and his 10,000 social media followers. Like, he seems like a nobody but the book. People like the book and he’s represented by, by somebody with a name. So you retain the rights, but then also you have that representation to where if the book really sells, you can just flip it. You can go to those traditional publishers, say, Hey, kinda like a proof of concept, like a beta test. Hey they, they sold 2000 copies in their first three months. Hey, they sold 5,000 copies this summer. Do you want it? So having that agent in your corner, I mean, and they have those, the publishers on speed dial, cuz that is their job pitching the, the projects of their clients to those houses. So yeah, there’s, there’s give and take with both traditional and self. But for me, that hybrid model, just having the representation, having somebody in my corner has been so valuable. Not to mention as a first time author, being able to borrow other people’s mistakes so I don’t have to make them myself so valuable. Having a coach, having somebody say, okay, this is what you need to expect has been, has been just so, so awesome for me. Yeah,
AJV (27:42):
I love that. And as everyone’s kind of like, you know, thinking about this and it’s the way that we’ve explained it, you know, in our, in our own household as we, you know, we’ve done two books with traditional publishing houses and I think there’s pros and cons to all the things, but you know, with traditional publishing, you’re really paying all of the fees yourself upfront in the hopes of making money on the backend, right? Whereas often if you have a six figure plus advance, you’re getting the money on the front end and very little, very little on the back end. So you’re kind of paying for it no matter what. It’s just, do you wanna pay the upfront costs, retain the rights, retain the ownership, retain, you know, I would even say the creative rights of covers, images, titles and you’re gonna pay for it, but then you’re gonna make it back on the backend as long as you have a good plan and a growing platform.
AJV (28:38):
Or do you go, Hey, I’ll forego those things. I’ll get that short term upfront money, but I’m also gonna forgo lots and lots of royalties. You know, and again, I’m talking, generally speaking, there’s plenty of people who make royalties. But I can, I mean, I can attest that in the non-fiction world, you know, we have a national bestseller and a New York Times bestseller and we can not even pay for monthly groceries off of our royalties. So
AJV (29:38):
And this is way before we knew the hard, hard lessons that we know now. We went with a, you know, a kitschy title, something that we thought was clever, called Procrastinate on Purpose, and didn’t have the same impact that we had with Take the Stairs. And then when Rory released his TED Talk, multiply Your Time, you know, it’s got what, 6 million Ted or 6 million views now. And we’re going, what’s the exact same content? What in the world? And it had so much to do with the title. And for three years, for three years we have been trying to get this dead gum title changed. We’ve tried to change the cover image we never liked the cover image. And they will not for the life of us, change the title no matter what or change the creative concept of the cover. And it’s like, those are things that you forego and it’s like, I think those are important lessons to learn. And we’ve, you know, fortunately, unfortunately learned them the hard ways. But again, there’s pros and cons to all of it. But that is a really great pro that you can go, Hey, I’m gonna make some tweaks here, republish, let’s go again. Don’t get that with a traditional publisher most of the time,
BW (30:50):
Right? When it comes to the traditional publishing that you know hasn’t changed is it still has the cachet. You can say, I’m with so-and-so publishing house. It’s like, okay, big deal. Like this is, this is a, this person is a big deal. They know what they’re doing. They like, they have a book deal versus self-publishing. Like we just understand what is what. But you’re right there, there are pros and cons to both. And with somebody in my position, or perhaps the person listening, you might not have the option. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (31:30):
Absolutely. And I think it’s getting stronger and more reputable literally every single month. Not even every year. It’s like every month. That industry is doing a pretty dominant takeover in a lot of ways. So that’s so super helpful. So now there’s this art and science of actually writing the book and getting it in the hands of other people to actually read it. So what we’d love to hear is just what are some best practices and pitfalls, some dos and don’ts of how to get this writing part done in the most effective but also efficient manner. So what are the, some of the lessons you’ve learned about how do you actually finish writing a book? Because we all know someone who had an idea that never got started or had an idea that got halfway started and never got finished. And so how do you actually bring this thing to fruition?
BW (32:27):
Yeah, totally. I, I would say for the person who is considering starting a book, like, Hey, bucket List, I’ve always wanted to do this. Don’t get caught up in the, the perfectionism of things. I would say if, let’s say you have the concept, cuz you need, you need to know the destination of where you’re trying to go. Your first goal should be just create the outline, create the skeleton. You’re gonna put meat on those bones eventually, but create your system. Like, especially if you’re in the non-fiction world, like if you just look at the non-fiction books that you have on your shelves, oftentimes it’s some sort of system. It’s the five love languages, it’s the seven baby steps, it’s the seven habits of highly affected people, right? We’re taking this expertise in whatever field you’re in and we narrow it down. If we’ve spent 10, 20, 30 years, we are like a world renowned expert, or at least we just know more than the reader.
BW (33:28):
Cuz that’s all you need. Let’s make it simple, let’s narrow it down. And so I would say if you are the bucket list person, hey, I really wanna write a book. I’m sure you have the concept there. It might be a little fuzzy, but you have the destination next step, just create the system. Five love languages, seven habits, whatever it is. Like, do a, do a brain dump, write down everything that you believe and then say, okay, how can I piece this together to make it clearer for the next person? Hmm. So that would be the first step. The second thing, and this might be difficult for the perfectionists that are, are listening to this, but that was me. So this is just something I learned as far as pitfalls. Like this is one that I stepped into. This is an error that I made.
BW (34:11):
Your first draft will be bad,
BW (35:03):
Like there’s so many people that have started a book, in fact, I’ve done this myself with previous projects that will never see the light of day, where it’s just, you know, one chapter, two chapter three, dead end. Like just, you just lose the juice. So, and I’m being kind of facetious, like, hey, write a bad book. But like, that’ll be a challenge in itself. You know, you need to write 200 pages of stuff that is just okay. Just okay then give it to somebody you trust, maybe one or two people in terms of the editing process. And then you make it it better and better and better. I would also say don’t waste your editors. Like let’s say you have 10 people that you trust, you’re in a book club or whatever it might be. Do not give it to all 10 of them right away. Because if you do that, then they might all have great feedback. But what happens if they’re not aligned? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (36:31):
I will tell you about that. That’s great advice. Not just for writing a book. That’s great advice for life. It’s like, so often we get bad advice and it’s because we ask the wrong questions or we ask the wrong people. So to be super tight and small and considerate with who you’re asking to do something, I think it’s really why sound advice for writing a book, but also for life no matter what it is that you’re doing it’s being very intentional with who’s the one giving you some of that feedback. I love that. That’s just good life advice.
BW (37:08):
And I can’t say I came up with it myself. If I could get add like one additional thing, have a mentor. Hmm. Have somebody that you’re trying to model. Like as I was playing in the minor leagues, I would watch film of other left-handed pitchers that I wanted to emulate. I was watching Clayton Kershaw, I was watching John Lester. Why? Because they were the person that I wanted to be. So, and there’s gonna be some creative, you know, latitude for you to work with. It is your book, it’s your writing style. Like this isn’t a true copy and paste, but as far as that, don’t waste your editor’s advice. My writing mentor told me that. So if you wanna write a book, if you wanna start a business, you wanna play in the big league, it’s like, get somebody that has done it before and say, Hey, if you were in my shoes, what would you be thinking about that? Again, it’s probably more like life advice than anything, but if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking about writing, awesome. Find somebody who’s written, Hmm. Give ’em a call.
AJV (38:07):
And I think one of the underlying things that you’re saying across this is like, don’t be afraid to invest in yourself. Right? It’s like, it’s gonna be a time, money resource but there’s gonna be all different types of investments. I know that you work a lot of weekends and after hours, but I also imagine it probably doesn’t feel like work. It feels like a passion, it feels like a hobby, like a purpose. But I also know that you invest a lot of resources and of your own money into doing this. And I think that’s just something that let’s not, you know, not address, you know, the elephant of the room. Like this is no joke. This is going to be an investment of energy, time, money and resources. Anything you wanna add to that?
BW (38:55):
Well, yeah, totally. If if it wasn’t a book, if it was some other widget that you don’t sell for $12, you’re starting a business. Like if you’re starting a donut shop, you wouldn’t expect, oh, I think I’ll spend like, I mean 97, 90 $8 to get this thing started. Like, no, you’re spending thousands of dollars, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds depending on the project to start your business. And so it would just depend on the book that you’re writing. There’s nothing wrong with writing something where it’s more like a journal for the eventual grandkids. Totally fine. But if you say no, like, I want to write a book, I want it to be published and I want it to change people’s lives. Don’t expect to do that without an investment. Hmm. Whether it’s time, money, or both. And so you shared it on the front end of the call. How’d you put it? You said something like, I can’t not share this. That’s when you know you have a book in you. If you have something you can’t not share, it’s just like, oh, if I could just share this one thing with the world, like I, I would, I have to. It’s like, well, you totally can.
AJV (39:59):
I love
BW (40:00):
That. Sit down at the desk 90 minutes a day, you know, every day except for Sunday and it will happen like that. That’s been my, that’s been my strategy. And I think that’s one area where playing pro sports, specifically baseball has helped. We had a game every day. Mm-Hmm.
BW (40:54):
And it will be hard. But sometimes, I mean, when it, when it comes to something worth doing, it’s always hard. Hmm. It’s always hard and it’s worth it. I’m already writing my second book. Like it was, it was such a rewarding experience and I’m, you know, I’m kind of like geeking out on this right now, but it’s just what an amazing thing to set your mind to something and finish it. And now moving forward I can share that with people. Mm-Hmm. Like the conversations that you have as a result of your book, the Doors that open, and it’s not for money, fame, anything like that. I now have a connection piece with friends, family, colleagues. I was just at the gym last night and there’s this gal that I’ve kind of worked out alongside for like years and it’s one of those gym relationships where you kinda like give ’em a head nod.
BW (41:48):
It’s like, Hey, I see you every Thursday, but like, we don’t, we don’t talk and Tina talk, actually know each other.
AJV (42:25):
Oh man, I love that. And I love that too of just that great reminder. It’s like, you know, half of it, it’s just showing up. It’s just showing up. I, that just, it reminds me about some of like the early advice I got as a new mom. It’s like, you know, half of the success of parenting is just showing up. It’s just showing up and you gotta do it and you gotta do it every day. Right. You gotta do it every day. And you mentioned something there, it’s like, well you said it’s like, well, you know, it’s like I can’t not share this. And so as we’re kind of like rounding out towards the end of our interview here, it’s like, what is it that you can’t not share? So tell us a little bit about this new book that’s coming out. It releases January, 2023, our Heart’s Desire. Tell us like what, what’s this book all about?
BW (43:09):
Yeah. like you said, it’s called Our Heart’s Desire Subtitles, how our stories reveal the thing we want Most. And so I’m a Christian. I love God. This book is, and it’s so funny cuz you and I hadn’t talked about this. You read the Bible this year. That, that’s amazing. That’s so cool. We should do it together next year.
AJV (43:31):
It’s been, revel a revelation of my perspective of, you know, I’m actually this book I was just reading live No Lies. One of the things it said, it’s like, you know, the Bible is a historical work. And so it’s like I have both read the Bible, both in a historical perspective as well as a, you know, spending time with God, perspective of learning and growing and that, but it’s been more of a, a knowledge journey of a, a historical record. And it’s, to view it that way has been extraordinary. And it’s like I’m now taking that approach with books of like, there are, you know, just these different facets of how you learn. And it’s been so exci. I can’t wait to read your book. I told you earlier, it’s not in my office, it’s next to my bedside. And so I’m so excited to read it. So tell everyone else about it. I’ll stop talking.
BW (44:20):
Yeah, no, that, that was my fault. That was my tangent. I’ll own that. But in, in terms of this book, aj, the reason why that caught my ear, you reading the Bible last year, I’ve done that every year, year for the last five years. Wow. Wow. I have a mentor here in Nashville that recommended that I do it, and it’s just become my routine. Wow. Like, I wake up in the morning, I read the Bible for 20, 30 minutes, whatever that day warrants. And so that doesn’t make me an expert on scripture. I would never claim that. But it does mean I am constantly reminding myself of that story. And so as I had written a couple of those books, like I said a few minutes ago that stopped and started and didn’t go anywhere. I was also learning about story and about writing and stuff like that because that seed had been planted and I was kind of getting there.
BW (45:08):
And so this book came about because I’m learning about story and also reading the story of scripture. And what I realized was the, the similarities between the two mm-hmm.
BW (46:04):
That’s wild. Because you could have humans writing books, writing screenplays in Hollywood. They keep telling that same story, hero villain, love interest to be saved. We want to return to paradise. And then you think about the desires of our heart. Like even we could even take, you know, God out of it for a second. If you look at society, if you look at your window and you say, this is wrong, or you look at any sort of like social dilemma or things like that, all we’re trying to do, AJ is restore paradise. That’s it. Like we just wanna live in paradise. That’s what we are made for. And so if the Bible is God’s word, which I wholeheartedly believe it is, we’ll have that. What an amazing thing. Now God, as the author of that story, has a specific way that he wants that to unfold.
BW (46:57):
But we have the same desire that he does. It’s just that we’re like on the hamster wheel of, oh, let me get to Paradise faster. Mm-Hmm.
BW (47:52):
Hmm. So as the person who’s read the Bible, you know, the last five years, like, all right, well, but I grew up in the church. I’ve been going to Christian schools since seventh grade. Like, so I was in it, I was around it. If there’s somebody who wants to know God but didn’t have that, what would they do? Hmm. Because they’re not, I can open the King James and like, oh, you know, oh, I totally get this right. But I believe as humans, like just on a, on a heart level, we have this story written on our hearts. We want to return to that paradise. We wanna see every tear wiped away. And if what the Bible says is true, that’s exactly what God plans for us. It can give us so much hope. Yeah. So that’s the book.
AJV (48:39):
I hope that it sells millions of copies and I hope that it gets in hands, the hands of millions of people. But I know it’s in my hands, it’s on my bedside and it’s gonna be one of my first reads of 2023. And I would encourage any of you listening, if that sounds appealing to you, to get to see, you know, the work of a first time author to bring this out, but also this really creative and unique depiction of how do we take these pop cultural references and movies and shows and love stories that we’re so accustomed to and start, how do we apply this and learn about the Bible? Then that might be a book for you. So Bob, tell people where can they go to order a copy of the book and where can they go to learn more about you?
BW (49:20):
Yeah. Best place is just bob wheatley.com. Have everything for you there, Bob wheatley.com. You can place an order. We are also given away the audiobook completely free for anybody that pre-orders. So depending on when you listen to this it’s probably still gonna be available for you. Just go to bob wheatley.com. If you place that order, it’ll be super easy right there on the homepage. First name, email your receipt number, and then boom, you have an additional five hours of my voice. So hopefully that’s not a detractor. Maybe I should
AJV (50:01):
So I love that y’all check out Bob. Go to bob wheatley.com. You can order a copy of our Heart’s Desire and if you do it as a presale you’re gonna get a free copy of the audiobook so you can listen and give the copy away. But if you also just wanna learn more about Bob and his story you can get all of his social media handles on his website. We’ll also put all of those in the show notes. Bob, thank you so much. It was so awesome to have you on the show to hear about the journey, but also learn about the book. I’m so excited for you. I hope this gets in the hands of exactly who needs it. We love you, we support you and to everyone else we’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand. We’ll see you later.
Ep 347: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 2
RV (00:00):
But I do wanna share with you the two things for how I stopped, how I actually stopped drinking. And the first one is really important. It was, it’s to rewrite your programming. Rewrite your programming. And there’s an entire chapter on this. Take the stairs. It’s called the Creation Principle of Integrity. And it talks about how our words are, what are the, the first step in creating our lives? Like your, the human brain is a computer. It is a program your brain is happy to do. Whatever you tell it to do. It will. And, and so here’s what’s important. Don’t try to convince yourself to artificially not do something that you really do wanna do. Instead, realize that you naturally won’t do the things you don’t wanna do. So don’t try to convince yourself not to do something you do wanna do.
RV (01:01):
Realize that you naturally won’t do something you don’t wanna do. So here’s what I mean. If you, if you tell yourself, I love alcohol, alcohol makes me relax, alcohol makes me happy, alcohol makes me comfortable. I need alcohol. Cause I had a hard day. If you tell yourself those things, they will be true for you. So when you, when that is your base programming, and then you try to change your behavior on top of that, it’s in conflict. Cuz you’re going, oh, I can’t drink for 30 days cuz I’m on this thing. Or, you know, I made a resolution. I’m not gonna drink for a little bit. The the issue there is your, your mindset. The is, is the behavior doesn’t align with the programming. Underneath you’re saying, I like alcohol, I want alcohol. That’s what the program is. And then you’re trying to create behavior that is in, in conflict with that saying, but I don’t wanna drink or I’m not gonna drink.
RV (01:54):
So you’re denying yourself something. The actual way to change your behavior is to change the root programming. Because if you convince yourself, I don’t like alcohol, I don’t want to drink, then it’s much easier to have the behavior fall in line because you’re not going against the programming of your brain. So this sounds incredibly simple and it is simple. It’s not easy, but it’s credible, incredibly simple. If you wanna stop any habit in your life or change any habit in your life, or stop any negative thing, you have to attack the underlying programming. How do you do that? Simple. It’s what you tell yourself over and over and over again. All you believe, you listen. Your brain does not believe what is true. Your brain believes whatever you tell it most often, whatever you tell it most often is what becomes true. I guarantee it.
RV (02:48):
And so I wanna read for you, I’m just gonna read for you my, you know, I call these my alcohol affirmations, which they’re really my non-alcohol affirmations. I just wanna, I’m just gonna read them to you because this is what I read to myself like every day for the first few weeks. And after a couple weeks, I didn’t have to read it anymore. My desire for alcohol disappeared. Right? So here it is. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work. Alcohol makes me less likely to achieve my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol weakens my decision. Making alcohol makes me more vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the, the chance of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I will eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp and active the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the, and the Lord.
RV (04:35):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to drink alcohol in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or none at all not drinking alcohol. Lengthens the length, lengthens the term of my effectiveness and my success. Alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And so
RV (05:14):
If you will just
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Say those things over and over again, I mean, that’s what I did. It changes the programming. It replaces your programming in your head, and it, it changes everything because now you’re building new behaviors on, you’re on a new foundation, and they’re not working against
RV (05:32):
Each other.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They’re working with each other. They’re working alongside each other. And, right, like the more I said those things, those that affirmations list that
RV (05:42):
I just shared with you, the more I believed it to
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Be true. And the more I
RV (05:45):
Felt like it really was true,
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And the more
RV (05:49):
That I felt it really was true, the less desire I actually had to ever do it. And so I wasn’t like, I know where I am now. It’s, it’s weird to fast forward ahead six years and go you know, who I was back then and was like, man, I looked forward. Like I looked forward to drinking. It was like the thing I was looking forward to at the end of the week, or even at the end of a day, like, gosh, I can’t wait to just like go home and have a drink. And now it’s like, I don’t want it. I’m not drawn to it. The desire is not there because the programming has changed. And so, you know, that’s what I want you to really like, think about with whatever change it is that you wanna make in your life. And you know, replacing your programming.
RV (06:36):
So, you know, first, first of all, you gotta, you gotta redefine your identity. Then you gotta rewrite your programming. And then the last thing is is you gotta replace your choices. And there’s, there’s two key choices that I’ve made on this journey, at least for me, that were, were really pivotal and they both have to do with replacements. And so the first one was just literally replacing what I was holding in my hand and giving myself more options. Because the, that’s the, the hard part is going, oh, well, when I’m out at dinner, I’m used to holding wine and or, you know, like, I come home at the end of the day and it’s like, oh, I, you know, I, I wanna, I wanna have a drink of some type. And so, you know, what I’m grabbing for is important to sort of have that replacement.
RV (07:27):
So here’s some simple replacements that made a big difference for me. So instead of drinking beer, drink Topo Chico specifically was what I would do because it was a glass bottle and I would pop it, it makes the same, you know, it’d make the, the same sound as popping open a bottle of beer and then you know, drinking that or sparkling water, right? So sparkling water was a, was a in instead of wine drink sparkling water. So instead of beer drink, Topo Chico is a glass bottle. Instead of wine, what I do is I drink sparkling water and then I will either add or sparkling apple juice or sparkling grape juice. And that is like what, what I would have like even now when I’ll go out to dinner, like what I’ll order, oftentimes I’ll order sparkling water with a splash of cranberry juice.
RV (08:23):
And so it’s super healthy. Often it’s free. I mean, you know, like, or it’s, it’s nowhere near the cost of a, of a cocktail. Now, if I really want a cocktail, what I will do is I’ll order a mock. And so almost every bartender loves making mocktails cuz they don’t get asked for it that often. And you say like, Hey, make me something fancy or whatever. So if I’m at let’s say we’re in Mexico by the pool or something, you know, and it’s like, I really wanna have a something, you know, like I’ll go, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll have a, have a have a fancy, a fancy mocktail. And that’s just a simple, a simple replacement. So instead of beer, I had Topo Chico. Instead of like wine, I’d have sparkling grape juice. And instead of a cocktail, I would get sparkling water with like a splash of cranberry or just, or just a mocktail.
RV (09:11):
So those are easy choices, but the, the more, the more difficult choice and frankly the more powerful choice. And the more important choice was that for me in my life, there were two people specifically that I identified that I needed to replace. Not so much like replace the people I needed to replace the time I was spending with these two individuals. And so when I looked back on, you know, the regrets that I had and me being drunk, and then I looked and said, well, gosh, there’s this very common thread that there’s these two specific people in my life that when I’m around them, I am drunk. It’s like sort of what we do. And it’s, it became the modality and the way of operating. And so, you know, rather than trying to change what they’re doing or change their behavior, I just basically said I have to replace myself out of that circumstance.
RV (10:09):
And most of the time in life, I’m a big believer, like I’m a big believer that usually you don’t need to change your circumstance, you need to change your attitude. Like usually that is, is what my default is. And what, even when I coach people and coach myself, like usually it’s not the circumstance that it’s is the problem. It’s your attitude. That’s the problem. And so you need to change your, you need to change your attitude, not your circumstance. But in this case, and whenever you’re trying to change like a physical behavior, it’s really important to change your physical surroundings. When you’re trying to change a physical behavior. It’s important to change the physical surroundings. Same thing, right? Like when you, when you’re trying to lose weight, I’ve been on that journey as well. It’s like I can’t have chips and cookies and bread and crackers and pretzels and everything just like a right there at my disposal to grab, because otherwise I’ll grab them, right?
RV (11:04):
So I have to change the environment. It’s sort of the same, same thing here, which is really tough. These were two people in my life that it was like we got together and we got drunk. And I can’t do that anymore, right? When I’m, when I’m making a change. And so what goal do you have in your life? What thing do you aspire to? Who are you looking to become? And it might be that you need to replace yourself out of a situation and you need to put yourself in another situation. You gotta change your environment. You gotta change your circumstance. Like literally change your environment. And so that was, that was a big, that was a big thing for me. And so that is how I have done it, right? And it, it hasn’t been very hard actually. Like the first few weeks were hard, but the, you know, you redefine your identity and you figure out, okay, why does this matter to me?
RV (11:56):
Not somebody else telling me I should, but, but why do I care? I listed my seven reasons of, of what, why it mattered to me personally. You only need one, right? You just, but you need one good one that matters to you. And you gotta be doing it for you. Like, if you’re making changes in your life because of someone else or cuz you think you’re supposed to, it’s not gonna be sustainable because you’re, it’s, you’re not changing your identity. You change your identity by changing your purpose and changing your why and deciding, I’ve got a reason to become a different person and that’s my reason, not yours. Not someone else’s, not some rule or some, you know, principle that I think I’m, I’m supposed to uphold or do. But it’s like a genuine, like, I’m rewriting, I’m redefining my identity. Then I gotta rewrite my programming, which to me is, is the most practical part of this.
RV (12:51):
And it’s reading those affirmations. And it might mean that you have to play this back you know, play this recording back and just listen to them. In fact, what I’m gonna do at the end is I’m gonna say ’em again so that they’re, you can, if you just need to like fast forward and you just wanna play these, I I’m, I’m gonna read ’em again. And, and then the third thing is that you have to replace your choices. You gotta replace your choices and give yourself art alternatives be in different circumstances, environments. And I I do have one last thing I wanna share with you too. But before I do that, let me go ahead and read, read these affirmations for you one more time. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work.
RV (13:39):
Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to compete towards achieving my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol, alcohol weakens my decision making alcohol makes me vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the risk of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I’ll eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement account. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me more to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the Lord.
RV (14:58):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to have a drink in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or not at all alcohol, lengthens the time of my necessary working career to pay off all that it has caused me. And alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me that I care about. Here’s what I want you to know. Today is the hardest it will ever be. Today is the hardest it will ever be. It is the hardest right now. The more that you play those affirmations back, you listen to ’em, you recite them, you repeat them, the more your programming will change. And it may be hard to imagine now, but I’m telling you, it is possible that you will wake up one day.
RV (16:03):
And what once was something that all you wanted, all you could think about later in the future, is something you don’t even notice. You don’t want it, you’re not attracted to it. The key is to rewrite that underlying programming. Not to try to lie to yourself and say, oh, I, I, you know, not to deny yourself something that really deep down you’re saying you want and just temporarily disallowing it from yourself, but getting under the root and, and, and rewriting a program that says there’s a different program here and I’m gonna rewrite it because I want to be a different person. Not for anybody else, not for any other reason necessarily, but you’re making the decision that you wanna do it because something that’s important to you. Now, there might be someone else in your life that matters, but it’s, it’s not that that person’s telling you to do it, it’s that you are choosing to do it because that person matters to you.
RV (16:57):
But this is the hardest that it’ll ever be. And I, I I promise you that if you do these things and you think this way and you work in this direction, it will get easier and easier. So I’m not sure who this was for, but I felt called to put it out there. So whether this is for you or a loved one, someone, please feel free to share it and please don’t feel judged. This isn’t about judgment. This isn’t about right and wrong and good and bad. This is just about my journey. Overcoming something that I decided wasn’t the right healthy thing for me and how I did that in case you or someone you know, wants to make that same decision. Thanks for tuning it in.
Ep 346: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 1
RV (00:08):
All right, podcast friend. We have a special interruption, I guess a deviation from the norm, an extreme circumstance and an unusual broadcast situation here. I recently recorded a video on how I stopped drinking. And it was three strategies for how I stopped drinking. And I don’t know why exactly, I don’t know who this is for, but I have felt called to share my personal story about how I stopped drinking six years ago and specific, you know, specifically how, like what I did, why I made that change, but also how I, I was able to do that, which was important for me. So this has nothing to do with personal branding, really. This has nothing to do. This is not at all the normal format of our podcast. For me to share something like this is very, very un unusual.
RV (01:10):
This is a tremendously personal I guess you would say vulnerable unexpected thing for me to be sharing. But I follow the promptings that I feel led to, and for some reason I feel led to this one. So, if you’re, this is the first time you’ve ever listened to this show you’re welcome to listen to this, to this, to this episode. And we may break it into a couple parts cuz it was a little, a little bit long. But, you know, this is not what we normally cover here on this show. Normally we’re, we’re, we’re talking to people about how to, you know, expand their reach, become more well known, make a bigger impact, make, make more income, and grow their influence in the world. And, and I guess, you know, there is a little bit of a tie, which is if, if you know, one of the things that I believe deeply is that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character.
RV (02:05):
Before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And this story that I’m gonna share about how I stopped drinking six years ago and why, and how it all went and how it all happened, and then specifically the, the strategies that I, I used through that own sort of personal development are are related to my character. Okay? I’m not saying that you, if you, you don’t like, if you drink, you have your person of weak character at all. Not whatsoever at all. Aj, my wife, my bus, our business partner, my business partner, our ceo, you know, she, she, she drinks to this day. But it is, for me, this was an important journey about that I felt I needed to go on to, to strengthen and fortify my personal character. And so that’s why we decided to share it with you is, is not so much about going, Hey, we think you need to, to learn how to stop drinking.
RV (02:59):
You may not drink at all. Or maybe you do and it’s, you know, not a big deal or like, you know, maybe you do a lot and it, it’s not affecting like, you know, whatever, like, whatever your attitude is. It’s, this is not about saying, Hey, you should stop doing this. This is my story about how I created a, a, a significant behavior change in my life and, and, and created new habits and, and new behaviors that is tied, at least was for me, tied to my personal character and is also tied to taking action and creating change and, and making, at least in my case, you know, what I felt was the move to make myself a stronger person. And so, you know, maybe this is relevant to you, like hyper relevant. Maybe it’s relevant for someone, you know, but I think what makes it relevant to all of us, and and, and to you at, at least on some level is, is twofold.
RV (03:48):
One, it is realizing this connection that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And that’s really, really important because your, your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. Your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. That’s something that my pastor shared with me a couple years ago, and I found that to be really true. But for all of us, we’re always trying to make changes. We’re trying to create some behavior change, some pattern change to get ourselves or our business to the next level. And so I think listening to the psychology of what, how I’m creating that change and I’m, I’m leaning on the psychology that you know, I’ve spent a lot of my life developing, which is the psychology of helping people take action and, and build discipline and do things they don’t wanna do.
RV (04:38):
And, and that’s something I’ve, you know, spent a career studying. So, you know, listen to it more from that angle. Like, if, if you’re not someone who struggles with alcohol in whatever way, I’d listen to it, listen to it from that angle, or just, you might just skip past this episode. If you don’t want to get all, all up close and, and personal with me. So again, I, this is a, this is a break from the norm. Just wanted to give you a heads up and a warning. Just fair warning that this is not our standard programming and it’s not a permanent change in our programming. Like we’re, we, we’re, we’re continuing on with our normal format, but not that I wanted to share with you and at least give you a little bit of a look into this part of my life, which was a, which was a powerful and, and important journey. So anyways, I hope you, I hope you enjoy.
RV (05:23):
So about six years ago I stopped drinking alcohol, and I’m gonna tell you a little bit about why I did that, but specifically I wanna share with you three strategies for how I did that. Now, I wanna let you know up front, I’m not against drinking. I don’t believe that it means you’re bad or immoral or any of those things. If you do it, I did it for a long time. I honestly don’t know why I’m sharing this with you, but I feel called to share some of this story with you. You and so I just, I wanna make sure you know up front that I if you drink, this isn’t a slam against you or meant, you know, or anybody aj. Aj my wife drinks and she still drinks. And you know, I have friends, friends that do, so it’s not about that.
RV (06:15):
But I just wanna share three reasons, or not three reasons. I gonna three, three strategies for how I stopped drinking about six years ago. So let’s dive in. Here they are, I’m gonna give ’em to you right up front. So first of all, the, the, the very first strategy is to redefine your identity. Redefine your identity, which is all about figuring out why. And so I’m gonna talk through seven reasons why I stopped drinking and how that sort of came about. Then the second strategy is to rewrite your own programming. And we’ll get into the details of that. I’m gonna share with you an affirmations list that I use, which is really a huge part of what changed my life. And then the third thing is to replace your choices. And there’s two specific types of choices that I replaced in my life that made have made a huge difference.
RV (07:12):
And I’ll share with you what both of those are. So first of all, let’s talk about replacing your identity. And to me, this is really key because if you wanna make any change in your life, you have to start thinking of yourself as a different person, because that’s literally what change means. Change means I’m becoming a different person. I’m, I’m on my way to being someone that is different than I am, or especially than I have been. And in order to do that, it’s going to be, it’s gonna require work, it’s gonna require effort, it’s gonna require intention and discipline, which means it’s gonna be difficult and probably, or at least uncomfortable or, you know, unfamiliar at the least. And so you really need to know why you’re doing what you wanna be doing. Like, I, I think, I think here’s a, here’s what I think is not a great reason to stop being drinking to stop drinking is cuz it’s like, oh, other people think I should stop drinking.
RV (08:15):
I, I actually don’t think that’s a great, the greatest reason why you should. I, I think any change that you make in your life has to be one and should be one that you are making, that you are choosing it. And so you are the one taking agency of your own life. And it’s not cuz you think you’re supposed to or cuz someone said that, you know, somebody threatened you with something, this or that. It’s because whatever has happened, you’ve come to a place where you’ve said, I wanna make this type of change in my life. I wanna make some type of change. And so really this applies to all types of changes. And so I think in order to do that work, in order to take the stairs to, to steal the, the title and metaphor of my first book you, it’s gonna be a journey.
RV (09:01):
And so you need to really understand why you’re doing it. And so I’m gonna share with you these are seven reasons why I decided to stop drinking. So and this happened about six years ago. The last time I had alcohol was the night that AJ told me we were pregnant with my son Jasper, with our oldest son Jasper. So at the time of this recording, that was, you know, six over six years ago, which is crazy that it’s been that long. And, and you also should know that like I drank a lot before that. Was I an alcoholic? I don’t know, I guess depends on what the definition of an alcoholic was. I never went in treatment. I didn’t miss work. You know, maybe if I was, I was, I guess what someone maybe call a high functioning alcoholic, but I once heard the definition that an alcoholic is someone who simply drinks to get drunk.
RV (09:56):
They drink for the purpose of getting drunk. By that definition, I was an alcoholic because that was the only reason I was drinking was to get drunk. It wasn’t like, oh, I like the taste of this more than any number of other things I could drink and that’s why I’m doing it. Or like, I, I’m not, I was never interested in like the making of alcohol or, you know, how it happened or like the hobby of, of of, of how it was crafted, right? Like it was, no, I’m drinking for the purpose of feeling a certain way or escaping a feeling that I was feeling. So, you know, I guess by that definition maybe I was, but I personally, you know, was never, I guess had a place where you might say I was outta control where it was affecting my, you know, my, I don’t know, I don’t know what the measure of that that would be.
RV (10:46):
So, but by some definitions I was. But you know, obviously if, if this is something you’re struggling with or a loved one is struggling with, you should consult with, you know, a mental health professional. And I never was really at that point. So again, I just share in my story here. I’m not sure who needs to hear this, but so here’s seven reasons why I stopped. Okay? So first of all, regret reduction. Regret reduction. You know, as I, as I thought about this whole journey and, and you know, I should say that the catalyst for this was solidarity with aj, right? The ca the catalyst for me stopping wasn’t, it was these seven reasons, but it wasn’t like something massive happened in my, well, I guess finding out you’re gonna be a dad is pretty massive, but like, I didn’t have this, you know, blow up or, you know, hit rock bottom kind of moment.
RV (11:35):
It was just like, you know, she said I was gonna be a dad and she wasn’t gonna drink for nine months. And so I said, all right, I’m just gonna stop drinking with, with you. And then I just never picked it back up. And at first it was really hard, like the first couple weeks were really hard and the first couple months were hard and then it got easier. And that’s something I think you should know, or if, if somebody, you know is, is struggling with an addiction of some type I’m certainly not an expert on addiction, but I have spent a life studying the psychology of, of self-discipline and overcoming procrastination and moving people to action and overcoming inaction. And so what I know from that work as well as my own life is it’s the har today is the hardest it’s ever gonna be.
RV (12:26):
Like, the day that you set out on the change is it’s that that’s the hardest, but it becomes easier o o over over time. So you should know that. But for me, when I was looking back, a hundred percent of the regrets that I had ever had in my life were from when I was drunk. Like, I actually realized that, that as I thought back over the course of my life and I was thinking about, you know, all the, all the, the poor decisions that I had made, all the stupid things that I have said, most of the really dumb things that I had had done, probably all of the dumbest things that I had done. Like, I literally as I, I didn’t have a ton of regrets in my life, but I, I had some big ones. And in all of them, every single regret I had in my life was from, from when I was drunk.
RV (13:21):
And so I thought, well, gosh, if I don’t want regrets, maybe if I could stop doing this, you know, if I stop drinking, maybe I’ll have fewer regrets in my life. And, and it’s just a, it’s just a, a reduction of the chance, right? So it’s like the chance of me ever getting a DUI goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking the, the chance of me ever engaging in sexual immorality or, you know, breaking trust with my wife or having an affair or something, it goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking or I’m not drunk it, it’s not impossible, right? But the likelihood I’m, I’m playing the odds, and this is how I structure my whole life. This is how I structure business is, is, you know, the strategies, the techniques we teach to help people make money, it’s all about, like, nothing is guaranteed, but there’s these principles of success and these principles that are true. And you go, man, if you adopt these into your life, you’re just sort of like playing the odds. And so I thought, man, I’m certainly going to improve the odds in my favor of of, of not having, of having through regrets in my life if I stop drinking. The second thing honestly was mental health. And, and here’s what I mean specifically.
RV (14:33):
I’ll never forget one time I actually said these words out loud. Like, I, these, these words came outta my mouth and there was something about the way I said it that really locked me up and it captured me and it, and it caught my, it like caught my attention. It was like a slap across the face. Like I, it made me go, whoa. And here’s what, here’s what I said to someone. I don’t even remember the scenario. All I remember is what I said. I said, you know, I just have more fun when I’m drunk.
RV (15:10):
And bam, just like that, like when there was just something where I said, when I said, I just have more fun when I’m drunk. That hit me so hard because I realized, wow, the, the however I have structured my life, like whatever choices I’ve made, whoever I’m around, whatever I’m doing, whatever, you know, goals, I’m pursuing business, I’m involved with, like whatever my physical health is, wherever I am at the, like, I have the most fun when I’m drunk. That felt like a risky orientation of my life. It felt like a risky orientation of my happiness. It felt like a risky orientation of, of my mental health to go, I have to be drunk in order to be experiencing my highest level of happiness. And it was a very sobering moment because I realized that’s not how I wanna live. I wanna be able to be happy without this.
RV (16:16):
I wanna be able to be happy every moment of every day with, with without any substances like that. I want my own attitude and my own mindset to be in charge of my own health and happiness. I don’t want dependency on something else for my, for, for my happiness other than, you know, I’m a I’m a I’m a Christian, so, you know, my relationship with God is super important, but like outside of that, my own happiness, I want to be independent of things that are happening around me. I don’t want my circumstances to dictate my happiness. I certainly don’t want substances to dictate my happiness and what I realized for myself, right? I can’t say this for everybody. All I’m all I’m talking about today. I said just Sharon with you, my own journey here, which was sort of an accidental journey a little bit like, you know, just an unexpected journey is, is is that I realized that I diluted my bodys own ability to deal with stress and pain and heartbreak and struggle because I was medicating with alcohol.
RV (17:26):
So I, you know, there are ways that you process stress and grief and, and heartbreak and setbacks and rejection and life. Like, life is difficult. Like for everybody. Life is so, life is hard, man, like, so difficult. And, and what I realized was, oh, somehow along the way, and just you, I, it wasn’t like I was crazy into, into doing bad stuff all the time. I just started drinking, you know, a little bit in high school and then more in college, and then a lot more later in college. And then, you know, I had some money and it was more, and then I was a young professional. I was traveling all over, I was flying first class and, you know, I was speaking and stuff and, and it was just like, it was just always available. And so it was just happening a lot. But I, at some point I had developed accidentally a dependency on this substance to help me resolve stress, to help me deal with rejection, to help me deal with frustration.
RV (18:34):
And so this substance was the thing that I was using for that. And so I was disallowing my body’s natural ability and from forcing itself to deal with those things in a healthy way. And so I was doing this unhealthy thing. And so I was like, man, I want non dependency. I want to be in charge of my own happiness. I want my attitude to dictate how I feel. I, I wanna be in charge. I don’t wanna be dependent on something else, regardless of whether what the something is. I don’t want something else to be responsible for my happiness. I want to be responsible for my happiness. So that was the second reason was mental health. The third reason was actually very practical. It was financial savings,
RV (19:33):
And so they were tracking stuff and they had this line that was like, alcohol and it was thousands of dollars. And if you would’ve told me at the start of the year, oh, you know, Rory is someone who spends thousands of dollars on alcohol, I’d been like, no way. You’re crazy. Like, I have drinks here and there. And then looking at it added up and black and white, it was like, holy moly, I spend thousands of dollars on this. Thousands of dollars, right? Cuz you know, a drink might be, I don’t know, eight bucks, 10 bucks, 12 bucks. If you’re in Vegas, it’s 25 bucks. Like, and you go, ah, you know, a bottle of wine here and there is 20 bucks, 30 bucks. Like you know, you have martinis, you go out on the lake, you do the birthday parties and, and, and, you know, well, couple glasses of wine with dinner.
RV (20:21):
And again, I’m not judging anybody, I’m just sharing my story of going, for me, it added up. And specifically, it wasn’t just thousands of dollars, it was the opportunity cost of going, what if I would’ve spent those thousands of dollars instead of spending on alcohol? What if I would’ve invested that into my own education, into my own personal development? Like, if I would’ve used that money to go to conferences or travel the world or, or even waste and like blow on silly, you know, stuff like I, you know, whatever shirts and, and and, and, and clothes and like, you know, trips or, or TVs or whatever. Like, and then specifically was like, what if I would’ve invested that money? You know? Like if I would’ve taken a few thousand bucks every year from the time, let’s say from the time I was like 20 to 25, if I would take, say it was 2000 bucks every year from age 20 to 25 and invested that, and I would’ve had like that 10 grand invested, it would grow to be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time I was retirement age, like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
RV (21:22):
So I was just, that was one for me where I was like, okay, yeah. Like this is crazy. It’s crazy. It’s costing me, it’s costing me money. The fourth thing was competitive advantage. And I gotta give a shout out here to my man Lewis house because Lewis was one of the people, there were several people in my life that I met who were really high performing individuals. And as I got to know them, I was like, oh, this person doesn’t drink. And I was almost surprised. I was like, wow, I didn’t even know you could, like, it was almost like being successful in business meant you had to like drink at the golf course or drink at the happy hour or, or you know, drink at the award ceremony or drink on the airplane together or like go out for drinks and, and you know, everyone get together and you buy, buy drinks.
RV (22:09):
If you no, if you do so about stuff, it’s fine. But it was just like, it was crazy that somehow my default had become that that was mandatory. Like that it was just that you had to do it. And then I met some of these other people, one, one of ’em being Lewis, who was just this amazing guy who was co accomplishing big things in the world and he wanted to help people. He had these huge visions. What’s funny now, like all of ’em are coming true, but like back in the day it was like, you know, it was as many people who knew him and knew me and we were kind of up and coming and it was like, wow, this guy’s really cool, and, and he doesn’t drink. And so I asked him about it one time and he was just like, you know, look, you know, the way he described it to me was he was like, he was an athlete and he was like, I’m looking for every competitive advantage that I can get.
RV (22:56):
And so that was the fourth reason for me was like, competitive advantage of just going, okay, like separate morality, separate physicality. If you just look at it peer like ambition and success of like, who, what am I gonna, who am I, what am I gonna achieve someday? And, and what can I be capable of someday? And you go, okay, these are the goals I have in my life. And again, you go, does alcohol increase my odds of achieving these goals or decrease my odds? For me, it was like decreases the odds. And it was like, yeah, if all things being equal, okay, and I don’t, I’m not super competitive with other people. I’m pretty competitive with myself, but I’m not super competitive with other people. But if you just thought about, and you said, okay, if there’s three people in the race, all things being equal, and you go, if I’m a non dreger, does that give me a competitive advantage for me?
RV (23:50):
I was like, yeah, it probably does. Like it probably does. So, so why not? So that, that was a, that was a epiphany, which is kind of close to the fifth one. So the fifth one was physical vigilance. Physical vigilance. This was the fifth reason why, you know, thinking back, I stopped, I stopped drinking and I met a, a friend, or we had a friend named Navy Seal Joe and Navy Seal Joe was a Navy Seal for 24 years and he did 13 combat tours. You know, he’s running life and death missions. And he said to me, and he, he didn’t drink, and he and I, I asked him about it one time and he said, he said, it’s real simple, Rory, when you’re in Navy Seal you realize, you know your life At any moment you could be in a life or death situation like snap of a fingers, your Navy seal it.
RV (24:43):
There’s, you know, like the Marine, the Marines, the marines say no easy day, right? There’s no easy day. Like at any moment you can find yourself suddenly in a life or death situation. And he said, and I had to realize that like even once he was out of the military, the same was true, right? You can be walking down the street and in a split second, somebody walks up behind you, you’re in a life and death situation. You can be driving a car and something jumps out in front of the road and you split second, you’re in a life and death situation. You know, someone says something to you and you reacted the the wrong way to, it could be a loved one, could be a stranger. You suddenly might be finding yourself in a situation that could alter the trajectory of your life. And so he was saying that there were these moments that we never know when they’re gonna come up, but they could happen at any moment, right?
RV (25:31):
You could be, you know, tornado hurt, like, you know, hurricane, it could be volcano, could be a physical encounter, could be your, your house catches on fire and you go, are you prepared? Right? Like, if I’m drunk, does that make me prepared for that moment? For me, it was like, no, that feels not the case. It’s the opposite, right? It’s the opposite. And so I never wanted to be caught in a moment where I was like, whoa, I have handicapped my own ability to, you know, maximize the likelihood of a positive outcome in some type of a life or death situation. So it’s physical vigilance. It’s very similar. One time I remember a man came up to me after speaking he, he had read Take the Stairs and he was like, Roy, I really love the book, et cetera. And he said, you know, I doesn’t look this way, but I, I I lost 120 pounds.
RV (26:29):
And I said, wow, that’s crazy. How did you do this? And he told me, he said, well, you know, it’s amazing. It’s really like, how did I gain it? At first he was like, all I did was I got married 10 years ago and I gained a pound a month. Okay? So that’s 12 pounds a year. And I did that every year for 10 years. That’s 120 pounds. Like all I did was gain a pound a month. I did that consistently for 10 years. I’m 120 pounds overweight. And I said, well, so what happened? And he and I said, you know, what’s the diet like? What was the diet program? What was your exercise regimen like? What, what’d you, what’d you do? He said, it wasn’t any of that. He said, I had a friend whose house caught on fire and this guy’s house was burning down in the middle of the night and he had a wife and he had two kids and he had to make a decision in the middle of the night in that environment, which of his family members he was gonna carry out to safety.
RV (27:29):
And he told me, he said, in that moment, I made a de a decision that I would rather die than have to make that choice. And so I had to be in a position physically where I was strong enough to carry out all of my family. If that situation happened, I would have to be able to go room to room and pick them all up and, and, and make it out of the house. And so he said, that was the thought that moved me. It was this, the same idea of physical vigilance like that, that, that I’m ready at any moment before, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m most ready or I’m best optimized for any moment. The six is spiritual guidance. I don’t wanna spend too much time on this one cuz I don’t, I don’t want you to think that like, you know, you’re, you’re in spirit, you’re unspiritual if if you drink, you know, you’re not, I mean, Jesus, you know, his first miracle
RV (28:26):
But there, you know, when I, I look through you know, I, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m a man of God. I read the word and that’s, that’s my source of truth. And I was looking in first Peter five eight, and it says, be alert and of sober mind because the enemy, the, your enemy, the devil pros around like a roaring line looking for someone to devour, resist him, stand firm in your faith. Because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. And it’s like be alert and of sober mind, right? That’s a warning in Romans 12, one it says, therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters in view of God’s mercy, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice. Holy in pleasing to God. This is true and proper worship. And you know, again, it’s like, doesn’t mean you can’t ever drink or even that maybe you shouldn’t get drunk.
RV (29:18):
It just means like, I’m being mindful of the idea that, okay, like if, if my body is supposed to be, my life is, you know, a dedication to the Lord, you know, there’s some spiritual, there’s spiritual impacts here. This is not a salvation issue, by the way, just to make that super clear. Drinking or not drinking has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. There’s, there’s, that’s a whole different story. You know, speaking, you know, of the Christian faith that has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. The Bible to me is, is not a rule book, it’s an instruction manual. Though for how you live and you know how to get the most out of living and, you know, these are things that I saw in there. So you know, that mattered to me.
RV (29:57):
And then the seven thing was just setting an example, setting an example an an an example setting for my boys, you know, and just going, you know, my dad was an alcoholic, his dad was an alcoholic. Like it ran in our family. And again, like a couple drinks here and there, whatever, I mean, this is all for you, for you to sort out. Like but for me it was again saying like, who do I want my boys to see? Me being? Who do I want them to see me being? What do I want them to see me doing, knowing not so much that I’m concerned with what they think about me, all that’s, although that’s important, but what concerned me more is knowing that whatever it is that I do is likely to give them permission for them to do in their own life.
RV (30:56):
And even if I am spared from ever becoming an alcoholic or become, you know, getting to the place where it, it really is, is is ruling my life, they might not be so lucky and I don’t wanna be a part of any part of contributing to that right now. My boys are gonna drink one day. I mean, maybe I’ll have a drink with them one day. I don’t know. Like but it’s, it’s like, it’s just setting that example and also, you know, helping other people that are cool and, and people realizing that you can actually be cool without doing this. You could be successful without doing this. You can rise in the corporate ranks without doing this because, which is weird to even think we have to say that, but somehow the, the world is at the place where you kind of have to say it cuz it’s more like, we think the opposite of like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s weird to not drink.
RV (31:51):
Like you’re the unusual one if you’re not drinking, not the other way around. Like, it’s more normal, it’s more customary to be drinking and you can apply this to any type of indulgence, right? You know, the same things for like, you know, whatever, any type of abuse, not abuse indulgence abuse of in like a, of a substance, substance abuse is what I’m saying, or indulgence of, of some type. You know, so just, you know, that’s my identity. That’s why is going, who do I wanna be? And that’s what you gotta figure out for yourself is just who do I wanna be? And, and is this helping me or is it out? And if it’s, if it’s fine, like if it’s under control and you go, okay, yeah, it’s fine, it’s under control, fine. You know, it’s, it’s, no one should be judging you except you.
RV (32:36):
Like, it’s, it’s all up to you to decide what feels right. All right. So interruption, pause, stop the recording, stop the tape, stop the video. Stop, stop. Apologize for this interruption, but it sounds like I’ve got more to say on this topic than I anticipated. And I, again, I have no idea why I’m doing this. I just for some reason feel called to share this story with the world. But I, I’ve got more to say, in fact a lot more to say than some really, really practical tips and like actual tactical things that you can do or that I did to help me stop drink to, to help me stop drinking. So I am gonna share those with you, but we decided that, hey, this is a good place to pause and draw part one to a conclusion.
RV (33:30):
And we’ll sort of like wrap part one and then stay tuned and we will, we will bring you part two. I will not leave you hanging, but I just wanted to interrupt myself here for a moment and say there’s more to come. And if you’re, if you’re getting value out of this or if you think it’s useful for someone that, you know, that fills me up. I guess that’s really ultimately the only reason why I’m doing this. But we’re gonna split it into two different sections. So this lands the plane on part one and we’ll make sure obviously that we send out part two very, very, very soon. Make it easy for you to find. Thanks so much.
Ep 345: Be a Better Networker with Megan Roudebush | Recap Episode
AJV (00:02):
Hey y’all, AJ Vaden here and welcome to the recap episode of my conversation with Megan Rabu from Keep With Y’all. Such a information helpful interview that has ongoing tech based solutions. But just generally speaking, the importance of relationship building, aka networking was such a powerful conversation because there were three big things that came out of this conversation that I think is very applicable to you. Whether or not you use Keep with the app or use any sort of technology. These are just really great reminders around networking, again, aka relationship building. So here’s the first one I think is really important is as any sort of business or personal you know, realm, I guess what the word is, whatever the word is, like whatever your sphere is, business or personal, you need to be really clear about knowing who you wanna be introduced to.
AJV (01:11):
It doesn’t matter if you are a stay at home mom who just moved to a new town. It’s like what type of friends do you wanna meet? You know, it’s like what type of activities do you want your kids to be involved with? Like, what type of families do you want your family to meet? Like that’s really important of just being really super clear both personally and professionally of who am I trying to meet? Who am I trying to build as my sphere? Who do I wanna surround myself with? Because if you’re not intentional with that, it will happen by default and you’ll look up one day and go, I don’t fit here, or I don’t feel like I’m growing here. Or I feel, I feel out of place in my own friend group or church group or professional networking group. And it’s because it wasn’t done with strategic planning or strategic effort from the get-go.
AJV (02:00):
So I just love that. And some tactical advice on that of just going like, who are the people that I’m actually trying to build as a part of my network, right? What type of people are they? What do they do? What do they think? How do they, you know, view personal development? Who are they trying to meet? Like what is it that you wanna have in common? Are these people that you wanna be able to do business and life with? Are these people that you are searching on cause you want to learn from them? Versus are you trying to have a reciprocal business, you know, referral relationship with them? Or you know, just like what is the intent of the individuals that you want to be in your sphere? What are their psychographics and what are their demographics, right? I think that’s really important. Like, do you care about, are they in a very similar life stage of you?
AJV (02:46):
Should they be married, single with kids without kids, certain age range? I think those are things are really important. So that you just, you start building this intentional network. And then from there it’s asking yourself, who do I want to be introduced to from these people? And I think that’s where a lot of us struggle, just as much of going, who do I wanna be in business with? Like, who do I want to do business with? And you know, we use this example on the podcast so that if, you know, if you’re a real estate agent and you go, I just wanna be introduced to anyone who’s looking to buy or sell a home, as you know, a human being, it’s really hard for me to pinpoint an individual when I’m going. I think that’s anyone potentially. I’m sure I know someone.
AJV (03:33):
Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you. And that’s a very typical common response that we hear in business when somebody says, Hey, do you know someone who’s looking to buy or sell a home as this specific example? Versus if someone said, Hey I am a, you know, home buyers, you know, agent who specifically works with first time home buyers who have just moved or who have been relocated for work to the Nashville, Tennessee area. So do you know anyone who is brand new to Tennessee who’s maybe been renting, who’s gonna be a first time home buyer who is not from this area and has potentially moved here in the last two to five years? Well, it’s like immediately I know literally five people who are currently renting who have moved here from rather New York, Colorado, or California along with Half City and who I’ve been talking about just waiting for the right time to buy.
AJV (04:28):
And they will be, some of them are first time home buyers, some aren’t. But the fact that it’s like, I want to know someone who has moved here in the last two to five years and I’m going, Ding, bing, bing, bing, bing. So it’s just being really clear on who you want your sphere to be and then who you want to be referred to. So I think that was like the first eye opening part of this conversation of most of us aren’t really good at networking or, you know, strategic relationship building or asking for referrals is we’re not actually clear on who we wanna build relationships with, with and who we want to be referred to. So that’s kind of step one. The second thing is, you know, what’s your game plan for actually relationship building? And I loved what she said that was again, should be so not an aha moment for me, but it was around the importance of, you know, networking and relationship building happens everywhere you go.
AJV (05:20):
So I view it as, you know, what are, what are you doing for volunteering and how are you meeting people doing that versus, you know, who are you meeting and spending time with on different wellness endeavors? So I love to go hiking, I love going to bar class. I love going on long walks. It’s like, who am, who am I like doing those types of things with as a part of relationship building, not just going to coffee and having lunch but it’s actually creating memories, creating experiences doing things that really help you get to know someone versus just having coffee,
AJV (05:56):
Exchanging business information or questions. It’s now it’s like I, I wanna relationship build through volunteer work and through doing life things together that I can see you on a regular basis and continue these conversations and help you get to know me and help me get to know you. And I love that concept. So, so good. And then the last thing that I would say is just this importance of this mutual opt-in is what she called it. A double opt-in of making sure whenever you connect people through referrals that both people are giving you permission. And so instead of just firing off an email cuz it’s easier, it’s making sure that person A has agreed to be connected and person B has been, has agreed to be connected because that creates this reciprocal trust environment where you’re not getting random emails of going, Why, why, why are you introducing me to this person?
AJV (06:49):
I don’t know. I’m really busy right now where it’s like, no, I’m giving you a heads up aj. Hey, I really think you should meet this person and here’s why. Are you okay if I introduce you with me going, Yeah, that’d be great, Pass it along. The other person gets the same thing. So when the intro happens, I’m all that more ready and excited to accept it and to act on it. Simple, but so wise, so wise and would make me quite honestly that more, much more willing to go, Yeah, how can I help? What can I do? Yes, but it’s a part of building this trusted network where we’re all signing off on it. And people aren’t ghosting you because there’s been this mutual agreement in advance that yes, this is a good time for me, I want to do that. And so nobody is feeling left out or left behind because there wasn’t any response. So, so many good tips. Go check out the full interview, check out, Keep with you can go to keep with.com to learn more, but go listen to the full interview with Megan Rabu and we’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand. See you later.
Ep 344: Be A Better Networker with Megan Roudebush
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody, AJ Vaden here and welcome to another episode on the Influential Personal Brand podcast. I am so excited to introduce you to a newer friend of mine, Megan Roudebush. It was referred to me by a mutual friend when she was accidentally previewing this cool a she had been working on. And then I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I need to learn more about this app. Who made this app? What does this app do? And I was literally so enthralled with it. I was like, Can you please introduce me to your friends, which is Megan. So all of you are gonna get to hear from Megan, and just a quick second. But before we do that, I just wanna remind you of why you need to, we need to stick around to the very end of this show. So if you consider yourself someone who struggles networking, this is the episode for you.
AJV (00:52):
If you consider yourselves an introvert, and that’s just quote unquote, not your thing this is an episode that you need to listen to if you struggle with meeting new people engaging in relationships, getting referrals, getting word of mouth business. Once again, this episode was specifically designed with you in mind. So please, please stick your hands. Now let me give you a little bit of a formal introduction of Megan. She has so many cool things in her bio. I was literally like, What, what should I talk about? There’s like so many cool things that I will just kind of give you some highlights here. Megan is the founder of an amazing network, pla platform called Keep With that you’re gonna get to learn about. It’s an app. It just launched in two 2022. So like right now it’s like so fresh and new.
AJV (01:45):
She’s also spent much of her career as a financial compliance officer. So not only has she created this amazing technology, she knows a whole lot about how to keep data safe and how to do things the right way. But in addition to that, she has helped teach poetry, poetry, writing classes in juvenile detention centers. She has interviewed people such as Chuck Norris at the ripe age of eight, I think, I think I was that young. She’s got such a cool and varied background, and today she’s going to help teach us how to keep it interesting, how to be a better networker, and how to build a world of math business. So well, without further ado, Maggie, welcome to the show.
MR (02:27):
Aj, thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure and I love the way we ended up here literally having dinner with Amanda in Denver, so just couldn’t be more thrilled to be
AJV (02:36):
Here. Oh my gosh, I’m so excited. And I want to help our audience get to know you a little bit before we jump in and start talking about networking and just the app world in general since like you’re fresh. I mean, you’re really not even out of it yet. You’re still in it, but I think that’s like such a world that everyone is curious about. And I would love to hear your story of how did you come to the idea of creating this app? And then just some advice for all of the listeners of how do you know when you’re ready for an app, What is your advice on making an app? Then I wanna actually tell our audience what Keep With is all about. And through that process, everybody is gonna learn how to be a better networker. So how did this idea come up? How did you go from financial compliance and all of these things to creating this app?
MR (03:24):
So, so many questions I wanted just answer them all at the exact same time, which will not serve your listeners very well at all. So I started Keep with the boring answer is that as a grownup in the world I was known to be very careful with relationships. So a native New Yorker, grew up in New York City, moved to Chicago, Vdidn’t know anybody. And when I got here, I was very careful and methodical about building my network. I joined the Executives Club of Chicago. I, you know, ended up at Deloitte, started to build my network, and I had built a re a reputation for being careful and cautious. If I wanted to introduce you to somebody, I would have to get both of your permission first, right? I would not connect with anyone on a social media platform with whom I had not spoken or met.
MR (04:08):
Hmm. And so I was getting asked to speak and write about networking a lot, and I thought, Hey, I think there’s a company here, at least an LLC somewhere to put the speaking fees, right? So that’s the boring answer. The really cool answer, and you’ve hit on it, is I grew up as a kid reporter in New York City. And so from the time I was eight till the time I was 18, I was interviewing grownups about really important world problems. Interviewed Chuck Norris because he was involved in Dare that anti-drug platform, right? Also interviewed Janet Reno, you know, covered political conventions, got to meet Amy Tan. But as a kid reporter, you learn how to ask questions, open-ended ones specifically, and to care about the world. And so when I think of keyless origin story, when you’re networking and you’re really truly authentically building relationships, you’re asking questions and caring about the world. So we started in 2017, formed an llc, learned how to name a company that’s probably a whole other podcast episode, have really good IP council, that would be my tip there. And started to get hired by companies across industry and sector to help their people build relationships better. That’s how we industry agnostic, sector geography. And then eventually, and we can talk about it, we knew that we needed to build a technological solution to support our work.
AJV (05:26):
Yeah. So I, so I’m curious, like, there’s two things that you said that I think are really important that are often overlooked is the importance of caring. Now, you said about, you know, things going on in the world, but it also could be transposed to just caring about what’s going on with other people, which I think is, you know, a key relationship starter and the importance of asking open ended questions, which, you know, as a journalist or reporter, that’s just kind of what you’re taught to do. But as normal people in a business networking environment, I don’t think that’s very common. So can you expand on that just a little bit of like, how do you create a desire or a curiosity in someone else when most of us are mentally worried about, what am I gonna say next? Not, you know, I really wanna learn about you. Like, just tell me, and instead we’re more of like, Well, how can I tell you about what I do? So how do you kind of flip that switch?
MR (06:23):
You know, I, I think it’s really important, aj, you, you hit the nail on the head again, relationship building is reciprocal. And I recently heard somebody say that you should envision your eyes really big. Your ear is really big in your mouth, really small, right? And, and I, I think that’s important. So for anyone, and I actually deal with this with my seven year old, I’m like, don’t think about what you’re gonna say to me next before we actually have this conversation. For anybody who is prioritizing what they need to say next and what their message is over learning about someone else, that’s where you flip the script. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (07:40):
AJV (08:27):
Which is, why did you get into this business in the first place? Like, why did you get into this business in the first place? Instead of, you know, what do you do? It’s like, find that out and be like, How’d you get into that? Why did you get into that? But then also I love that second question is like, Hey, what do you find most rewarding about this business that you’re in? Like, those are real conversation starters that are slightly different than just what do you do? Which starts and ends pretty much the same way every time you ask it. So are there any other go to kind of questions that you would say would be really helpful in that environment?
MR (09:04):
For sure. And I’d also, if we can like to put a pin in something that you said for after we answer this question, cuz you, you mentioned something really important. You know, you can ask what someone is working on these days. You can ask what somebody, what brought the person to this event, right? If you are at an in-person networking event, what brought you here today? Because is either they’re gonna tell you about the person who invited them, and that’s an interesting story and maybe a way for you to expand your network or they’ll say, I was really excited about the speaker, or I really wanna join the organization. Or, I’m new to Chicago and don’t know anybody. And so those are all different things. What are some of your challenges right now? You know, what are you, what are you working on next year? Right now, one of my favorite things about this time of year is that there’s so many holiday events happening and it’s prime network. Like from a networking nerd perspective, I’m like all of all of the events, all of the parties, everyone’s having their annual gathering, right? And so you could say like, what’s your favorite holiday? Like, what is your go to? What is that one holiday event that you have to go to every year that is always on your calendar? Like, that’s just kind of a fun thing.
AJV (10:14):
Yeah, that’s a great question.
MR (10:16):
But you mentioned not necessarily feeling comfortable in a large gathering with a drink in your hand and wanting to go to the bathroom a lot.
AJV (10:25):
It funny, I dunno,
MR (10:26):
I’m, I’m a consummate extrovert, but I’m really finding that in this covid prepost covid situation, I, I’m extrovert to the, to the cows come home. However, even I have these introverted moments. What I would say is you may not have to stand in a large ballroom with a drink in your hand. If you prefer networking one on one, go for a walk with somebody, do a workout with somebody have a zoom with them. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (11:15):
That is such an important reminder cuz I think so often we get stuck in this idea specifically around business networking, that it has to happen around some sort of business oriented event. Or we’ve convinced ourselves that, you know, we need to be at this type of meeting or association to make it work. And that that really isn’t true. You know, I’m a much better networker in small group settings where I can actually get to know someone and not get interrupted or feel pressured to go like, make the rounds. And I think that’s a really great reminder. So I think this would be like valuable. What are, are all of the different ways to kind of kind of help open up people’s minds and broaden their perspectives around what is networking, which is just another way of saying relationship building, but what is, what are all the ways to network that really make a meaningful difference?
MR (12:08):
And you, you’re exactly right. We say that networking is the building and maintaining of meaningful relationships for personal and professional reasons in support of the goals of the people that you know and the people that they know. That’s a mouthful
MR (12:56):
And so then you’re surrounded by another sphere of influence where you’re on the board with other people who care about that. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (13:56):
Congratulations. Thank
MR (13:58):
You.
AJV (13:59):
Cool.
MR (13:59):
I’m gonna meet 50,000 other people who share this interest in doing this. Really I would say maybe outlandish, but really kind of grandiose thing. But training and training with other people and having that common interest or bond, you know, wellness focused networking is one of my personal passions.
AJV (14:15):
Yeah. And I really love, there are two things there that kind of just blow my mind a little bit. Cause I, they seem so duh, but at the same time, I, they’re not, which is volunteerism. I mean, when I just think about it, it’s like the act of doing things to add together. It’s like you’re making memories, you’re creating experiences. It’s not just that, you know, I think it’s one of the things that most people challenged or challenged with is, I don’t have time for another coffee. Right. I hear that a ton from people in our community. And honestly, sometimes I felt it’s like, man, I don’t have time for another coffee. But it’s like, but at the, at my core, like I know how important it is to make that time to network. But then it’s like there is something meaningful about it, doing it while you’re doing something else, like volunteering or wellness.
AJV (15:04):
And it’s like I go to the same bar three class that’s like my preferred workout of choice every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. And it’s like my favorite instructor, I just go to whatever she’s doing, like whatever class. But it’s like we’ve, we’ve become really good friends. And then through the process of just chatting after class one day she made a comment around, she’s gotta go get dressed up. And I was like, Oh, what for? And she was like, Oh, well my PR company, I was like, PR company. What do you mean PR company? And she goes, Yeah, in addition to owning the studio also I’m a partner and a PR company. I was like, Wait, what? And long story short, it’s like I ended up hiring her firm. But that was, again, that’s a version of networking where people don’t view it as networking, but you gotta be able to show up.
AJV (15:50):
But I love the, I love the way, like where are the, where are the places that you see people on a regular basis, right? So training for a marathon doing Peloton at 5:00 AM you create that community volunteering. I love that when that is so cool about processing your desire to volunteer and, and give back to the community as a way of networking and building relationships. And I love the concept too of you’re building relationships through doing something together. Not just trying to learn about each other’s businesses. It feels more natural and organic. And I have never viewed it that way before.
MR (16:26):
You know, it’s interesting. I have an investor he’s one of the coolest human beings on the planet and he’s such an inspiration because he built his company in such an inspiring way. And so a really good example is when I originally reached out to him, I said, Hey, we’re looking to meet other investors and customers. And he was like, Well I don’t, I I at first he’s like, Well I’m not sure how strong my network is, right? And as he’s gotten to know me and he is gotten to know the platform, he’s like, Oh, I know all the right people to introduce you to. Right? and so that’s just been been really helpful. I would also say, you mentioned not having enough time for another coffee. And I would like us to talk about the tech we sort of for move the app aside for a second, but at least our view and the view at keep with and what we’ve built the tech on is that you should have a networking strategy.
MR (17:16):
Mm-Hmm.
AJV (17:47):
Just put it out there in case anyone listening knows person,
MR (17:50):
Putting it out there that keep with, wants to partner with Peloton. If I am having a coffee with someone and I know that they might be able to help me with that introduction or that they’re wellness focused mm-hmm
AJV (18:08):
Yeah. So I’ve got two questions for you. Both for me selfishly, but then also I figured if, you know, I have these questions, other people listening have these questions. So here would be something that I find in, again, maybe this is just a me thing, I’m guessing it’s not, is sometimes networking or, and lemme just not call it networking for a second. Saying yes to a lunch or a coffee feels very one sided. And that’s why I feel like a lot of people going, I just don’t have time to do this anymore. Cuz they don’t view it as mutually beneficial or reciprocal. And I think that is in due partly because of the person who’s trying to coordinate it isn’t helping create that reciprocal environment. And so it’s easier for you to push it off, not respond and not do it. So my first question would be for everyone listening is how do you truly network set up these meetings whether virtually or in person where somebody else is inspired to go, Yes, I wanna take that hour with you or that half hour with you, I wanna get to know you.
AJV (19:15):
I do see the mutual benefit here. And not that it all has to be about, you know, give to give. Sometimes it is just give to give. But I think there’s also an art and a science of doing that in the right way where someone says, Yeah, when can we get together? Because there is this opportunity for both parties to win. So are there any tips or best practices on how do you make that where it is this reciprocal environment from even onset of thinking about it?
MR (19:46):
Yes. And I, I feel like we could have a whole conversation just about that. How do you even start, how do you know who to even reach out to? And I do at some point wanna talk about the tech cuz we have some tools in the tech to get you there. But you should be very aware of what your most important relationships are of all the different pockets of your network within those pockets. You know, who’s in your close group of key advisors, who would you call on a Friday night if something good or something bad happened? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (20:43):
Can I pause it there? Cause you said you in my opinion, glance over something that I think is wildly important. And what you just said, I think from my experience is where most people fail miserably. They do not know who they wanna meet
MR (21:06):
So there’s this tool out there aj and it’s gonna help people with that and I’m really excited. But no, you’re exactly right. So I
AJV (21:52):
Amen. Love that.
MR (21:54):
So maybe your kid has gone through the college application process recently and you can help a friend whose kid is now going through the college application process. Maybe you speak a language, maybe you’re a super connector. What are all the ways that I can add value to you? And have that list right? Then you can think about what are all the things that I need in the world right now? I could really use some help figuring out a new web developer cuz I got an email before this call that my web developer is going in a different direction. Or how can I get a new book agent because our book agent has transitioned away whatever the case may be. So have your list of the ways that you can add value. Mm-Hmm.
MR (22:38):
And those will then when I say to you at the end of a networking meeting, Hey aj, how can I be helpful to you right now? You can be like, actually I really need help with X in Chicago. But you also said people don’t know who they wanna meet. That is exactly true. And I will say to you, and I did say to you at the end of our first conversation, who are you looking to meet these days? And so in our Tech Keep West platform is really air traffic control for your relationship building and it helps you focus on who you know, who you wanna meet, your networking goals, who your people wanna meet. So if I know that you’re looking to meet clients in Chicago, I can note that and then I can add value to you every time I see a prospective client for you that builds the reciprocal nature.
AJV (23:26):
Yeah. So I think this is a great transition to talk a little bit about keep with, Cause I think one of the biggest challenges that people struggle with is just staying organized. It’s making time, it’s tracking it. Not everyone has a personal CRM or a database, not most companies do, but not all. But on a personal perspective it’s like that’s kind of the genesis of LinkedIn when it started, but yet it doesn’t do it in this strategic element. And this is what drew me in when we were, when I was meeting with our mutual friend Amanda, and she was previewing this app again, not intentionally. And I was like, Wait, this is so cool. And it was one of those things where you just recognize a need and you’re like, the reason it stuck out to me is because every single person in the brand builder’s community at some point has said, I need more of this type of client.
AJV (24:18):
I need more of these types of relationships. And they struggle with being strategic when asking of knowing who to ask, when to ask how often to ask. And there’s just a lot of, there’s a lot of, it’s, some of it’s just organization of keeping track. So if you have a desire to really be helpful and give and an effort of going, Hey, it’s like how can I serve the people around me? What can I give to people? Knowing that is the best relationship building tool you can do is just be willing to give. This is an amazing way of staying organized and tracking and making sure when life gets busy, you don’t forget all the important stuff. So tell us what is keep with and what does it do and like how does it help the everyday person like me?
MR (25:03):
For sure. So think of Keep with as air traffic control for your relationship building. And what it does is it brings together your connections, personal and professional from all the different places where you have them. So you probably have people in your social channels, you have people in your phone, you have your holiday card list, You probably as a business owner have a crm. It syncs to to CRMs and it’s a way to bring all of your people together. But it also includes the networking events that you will attend and the introductions that you are fostering and who you wanna meet and your networking goals all in one place. And then there’s a content library where you can learn how to network better. And it’s always great to have that, that educational component, but it’s bringing all of your relationship building into one platform.
MR (25:53):
It allows you to prioritize your relationships. So our mutual friend Amanda’s company had some pretty amazing success with her sales based on using our methodology, which we’re really proud of. It allows you to have a list of who you wanna meet. And so then when you’re on a plane and you sit next to somebody who knows somebody that and they say, Hey, who are you looking to meet? You’re like, Actually, I wanna meet these three people. Right? And it’s, it’s just such a great tool. One of our investors said she wished she had an executive assistant following her around to every meeting. And we don’t typically have that. But we do have keep with. And so we are enterprise facing first. We’re starting with businesses though any individual user can sign up now. But we’re B2B first and then we’ll be expanding to to b2c. There’s no spam, there’s no ads. And all introductions require consent of both people being introduced, which prevents people from flinging themselves at you in an, in an unwanted way.
AJV (26:49):
Thank you for that.
MR (26:58):
Sure. So our overall website is keep with.com and if people want to sign up, it is a paid app. You go to platform dot keep with.com and you register and sign up first, and then you download it to your device. So it’s available on iOS, Android, and web. And on our website Keep with.com you can view a demo video and anyone can also reach out to me as well.
AJV (27:24):
Awesome. Well, we’ll make sure to put all of that in the show notes to make sure everyone’s got it. But you can go to keep with.com or then platform dot keep with.com if you wanna actually get the app. Now continuing our conversation on this, you know, networking adventure that we are all on, whether or not we admit it. So we had talked about this a little bit of most people aren’t super clear on who they wanna ask for, which is probably the number one deterrent of asking. And I have been a part of so many networking meetings where I have said, Hey, who can I, you know, introduce you to, who are you looking to be connected with? Or we do a lot of facilitated networking events at Brand Builders group and they do not do what they’re supposed to do.
AJV (28:09):
And instead what they do is, Well, just tell me about your business. Instead of going, Well, this is who I am strategically looking to be introduced to. So what advice do you have for the person out there who’s going, Well, I thought I was doing that when in turn they are not, because not everyone is your audience. And I can just think of so many examples where they go, Well, I’m looking to be introduced to anyone who is interested in buying a home. Well, that’s a really broad statement. So how do you, how do you narrow it down where someone can immediately go, I know someone like that. What tips do you have to help people narrow it in?
MR (28:49):
So it, it’s funny as, as somebody who always found math challenging, I can’t believe I’m gonna give us an equation, but I’m gonna give us an equation. So we’ll do this as kind of a fill in the blank. So you can think of it as a networking goal is an objective that you are looking to accomplish with the power of your network behind you. Really simple. And, and like I said earlier, what any goal, if you’re looking to do anything, move to a new place, get a new job, get a new client become more fit, whatever the case may be, any networking goal, you know, any goal can be a networking goal, but the way that you should think about it is, I am networking to X land meet, introduce, volunteer for the purposes of
AJV (29:32):
Y
MR (29:33):
And you can get even more specific and say, you know, I am networking to meet home buyers in this market looking to spend this dollar range for the purposes of X. Or I’m looking to meet people who know lots of people who want to buy houses, right? Because then they’re the super connectors and you get more bang for your buck. So it’s having networking goals that are specific and include why you wanna meet the person. If I just tell you, Hey aj, I wanna meet Barry McCarthy, the CEO of Peloton, you’re like, That’s nice, Who doesn’t? But if I say I wanna meet Barry McCarthy because I know that Peloton is a new tech solution and he wants to add apps to his platform and that I know at a micro level we’ve really helped people in the community connect better. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (30:28):
Yeah. And I love that too. Because we talk a lot about getting really clear on what, you know, you’re talking about like your, you know, networking strategy in terms of people, we would call it your avatar. It’s like know exactly who your avatar is. It’s not I’m looking for home buyers. It’s looking say, Hey, I wanna serve home buyers who are new and I live in Tennessee who are new to Middle Tennessee, so I wanna serve that market who is, you know, an out of state transplant who is looking to buy a home, who is, you know, spending this amount of money X, Y, and Z. But you’ve added a whole nother level of, but why, why this type of person? And I think that’s really unique. So can you just put a little bit more context around that because I think that part will really help it stick. That’s the sticky part of that personal connection that why to it
MR (31:20):
There’s a trust and an authenticity to to relationship building that really, really matters. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (32:13):
Yeah.
MR (32:13):
Because it’s based on something
AJV (32:15):
Mm-Hmm.
MR (33:02):
So first and foremost I always encourage people, keep with, always encourages people to be a connector, to always be thinking about who you can introduce. The key most critical component is to get double opt-in first. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (33:57):
Mm. I like that. So just to clarify, I wanna make sure everyone hears that quickly. Get permission from both parties before you make the mutual introduction. So if I had, if I’m like, Oh my gosh, I just met someone today, they need to meet Megan. It’s like, Hey Megan, hey, I met someone today. I really love to introduce you. Are you okay with that? As well as telling my friend Bob Smith, Hey Bob, you want me to introduce you to Megan? Great. And then I, then I make the connection, right?
MR (34:23):
And that is currently a pretty clunky process. You do emails, but we’ve solved for that with the technology. So we have double opt in, I select, you select me, you select Bob, we both get a prospective introduction, we both consent, and then the introduction proceed. Awesome.
AJV (34:38):
So it takes care, the automation takes care of all of the personalized manual work that you would be doing otherwise.
MR (34:45):
And you then can keep track of, oh, I sent Megan three potential introductions and she declined all of them, right? Oh, so they proceed. That also gives you some intel. So getting double optin, but I would also just say on a very fun level, build the person up that you are introducing. My favorite things to do is send a note to two people and tell them why they’re awesome. Mm. You know, you need to know you. And very rarely it’ll just like, my gut will just tell me, the universe will be better if you two know each other. And so I’ll say that. I’ll say, These are the rock star things about this person. These are the rock star things about this person. And I have no specific goal or purpose, but I just know two HR experts need to make the world better, right? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (35:47):
Yes. Which most people won’t do typically, right? But I love that. I love that buildup where both people feel so complimented that the, you know, flattery does go somewhere sometimes flattery helps a lot. And I love the other thing that you said too is explain why they should connect. I feel like when I get a bunch of introduction, you know, emails, it’s often at the end of it I’m like, I hear you’re awesome. I’m not sure exactly why they wanted us to get together. I’m willing to meet, but it’s like most of my willingness comes out of my desire to keep my relationship strong with whoever sent this random connection. Because the context of here’s why you need to meet is missing. So I think that is really important to build both parties up and then connect the dots. And then here’s why I think you guys need to meet each other.
MR (36:42):
And it’s also so important that we’ve really, like your network is your most important asset. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (37:20):
I love that. And I think that’s really, really important of you’re not just connecting people that you don’t know, but there is a trusted relationship that you are passing on to another trusted relationship. I love that. This is so good. Okay, last question. Watching the clock, I’m paying attention. So last question. What do you think people need to know about networking that they don’t know?
MR (37:48):
The importance of making time to do it? So I think a lot of people think if they stay heads down in their work, they’ll, you know, so it’s very important to take deliberate time to network. I also think that people do not think enough about including personal and professional members of your network. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (38:49):
I love that. I love just be discerned of who comes in, who stays in. I think that’s a really important just reminder to us all is I just, I somebody referred, I just remember this time last year I was at a conference, a summit of a really good friend who was hosting it and I was one of the speakers and one of the sponsors of the events concert. I just naturally assumed worked with the person who was putting on the event. I was like, well, there’s no way she would’ve had a sponsor come speak on her behalf unless that she was a client. That was a very bad assumption of mine. So I hired this company for tens of thousands of dollars, had a horrific experience. 60 days in, I’m like, no. And so I reached out to my friend, I’m like, Hey, I just, I want you to know.
AJV (39:39):
And they were like, she’s like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t know. And I’m like, Have you not ever worked with ’em? And she goes, No. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Was like such a great reminder of ask don’t make assumptions. And then I was, I went back to this company and I was like, listen, this is a hundred percent not what was advertised. Like this is not okay. This, I had to get so many other people involved to even like, get out of this contract because I’m like, I really did it based on my assumption that somebody else’s trust that that’s what they were putting in front of their audience. And I was so wrong and that’s my fault. That’s no one else’s thought. I made that assumption. But to your point your, your involvement with the people around you reflects on your reputation.
AJV (40:25):
They’re an extension of you. And then I also, I lied and I have one more question cuz I said I was gonna ask it in the very beginning and then I got on this deep dark road of networking, which I think is so important. I also asked earlier about apps. How do you know when you’re ready to have an app? How, like how do you know if you should have an app? And since you have been in need deep eyeballs deep in this for almost five years, I would just love for your quick personal, you know, share with our audience of how do you know if you should have an app and how do you know when you’re ready? And that’ll be the last question, I promise.
MR (41:03):
Okay. I’m gonna go to what you first said though though because the, the what you just described about the contract and people not knowing, one of the most important questions that people need to ask is how well do you know so and so? Mm-Hmm.
MR (41:44):
So that’s just, but ditto solidarity hands at your back. I been where you’ve been
AJV (42:50):
MR (42:51):
That. Any problem? Think about it like this weekend, wherever you are. Like if someone’s like, I wish we had, it’s like, I think there’s got, I think I’ve heard there’s gotta be a startup fixing that. And so I wanted to be the startup that fixed networking. And so we started to go down this path. We raised some capital very quickly. Some other time we can talk about the traction and the speed and there was a whole bunch of excitement and capital raised and I was introduced to Amanda and, and the tech started and away we went. And so working with the app at team and their unparalleled professionalism and excellence and UI experience and they just got us our mutual friend once said to me, It’s great that you’re my client and we’re building the tech together, but you’ve changed my life and that’s what relationships do.
MR (43:34):
So I knew we were ready when we were getting companies around the world, across industry and sectors saying that they were finding it hard. And so I thought then we are in our houses. Hello, welcome to my kitchen. Right? And so we had to use technology to stay connected even if we’re one of those people who say that we hate doing it on Zoom. So there were a whole confluence of factors and we’ve now built tech that has looked at the pain points of existing solutions that is really based on who you know and who you wanna meet. No spam, no ads, no noise. And we feel like we’ve built something that’s really gonna help people to build relationships better.
AJV (44:10):
No, I love that. And I think, you know, some of that is, you know, it’s definitely not easy, but it’s also kind of simple of going, it’s, you know, basic laws of, you know, supply and demand. It’s like you were having a lot of demand. That’s how you knew. It’s like I have to do something that’s more scalable. Something that is more far reaching than me just being on stages. That can only, you can only do so many. And so I think looking at the demand, I think that’s a really good tip for anyone who’s listening of going, Are people asking for what you do? To the point that like, I don’t have enough bandwidth to continue doing it because I’m getting asked so often to help with X, Y, or Z. Is the demand there enough and is it scalable enough? But there’s an opportunity to take it into a a tech-based platform and I love that. Now you just clarifying cuz it’s like you’ve been working on this for a long time so it’s not like it’s one of those things you just whipped up over the last 12 months.
MR (45:05):
No, we, we started as keep with in in 2017 and have been developing the content and the methodology and the approach for some time. In September of 21 is when we really started to raise capital in earnest. I was introduced to Amanda cuz I needed to find the right team to build our tech. And we used our network to find the right team. And then people have talked about how quickly and beautifully we’ve been able to build technology from September to April. The, the tech launched in April of this year in beta. We spent the summer working out some bugs. It’s fully functional and now we are talking to some very large global enterprises about implementing it across their companies.
AJV (45:45):
Man, so cool, so exciting. Congratulations. Like how cool to see this idea come to fruition in such a way that is passion driven and really meant to help people make networking not so hard. It’s so awesome to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Y’all go check out, Keep with go to keep with.com or if you wanna just go ahead and download the app platform dot keep with.com. Megan, if they wanna connect with you personally, where should they go?
MR (46:17):
Sure. Megan, m e g a n Keep with.com. Just send me a note, shoot you my calendarly. You can also connect with me on Keep with and book some time. But the easiest way is [email protected].
AJV (46:30):
So cool, so generous. What a great, helpful interview. Thank you so much for being on and everyone else stay tuned for the the short recap version after this and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
MR (46:44):
Thanks AJ.
Ep 343: How to Scale a Coaching Company and License Your IP with Todd Herman | Recap Episode
RV (00:02):
Holy smack,
RV (01:12):
And, and we know something about it. We’ve sold a company a coaching business, but I think it was far undervalued for what it should have been. And I think knowing, knowing many of the thing, like having learned some of these things, I’ll share with you some of my highlights is definitely gonna change the, the future of our, our business. And the way it already is, AJ and I have already taken action on several of these things from when this interview took place. So, first of all, alright, so Todd Herman was, was our guest. We were talking about how to scale a coaching company and how to license your ip. And here’s my top three takeaways. So first of all, my very first takeaway is about the power of trademarks, or I should say the value of trademarks and the, the financial value of trademarks.
RV (02:02):
So, you know, if you go back and you listen, one of the things that Todd said is he said, look, if somebody’s gonna come by your company, if you’re a personal brand company, is he said, the first thing they’re gonna ask you is, how many trademarks do you own? What? Like, I’ve never, no one has ever said that before. Like, I’ve never, I’ve never heard that before. Because we have not spent a lot of time like focused on our ip. Like, and it’s you know, one of the things he said is he said, look, if if you win an IP infringement case in the US it’s a minimum of $250,000. So he said, we don’t, you know, he doesn’t send cease and desist letters. He just sues people. And that’s pretty wild. You know, like that’s a pretty assertive or aggressive stance.
RV (02:50):
I mean, depending on how you look at it. But I gotta tell you, this is a place where I feel like we’ve been getting, we’ve been getting the short end of the stick here. There are so many quotes of mine that get ripped off and stolen and put all over the internet there. I mean, there’s a few of ’em specifically, success is never owned. It’s rented and the rent is due every day that originally appeared in Take the Stairs be the Buffalo and my Buffalo story. People are now putting that in their TED Talks. We’ve got you know, this, this story I tell do it scared about do it scared again. That was 10 years ago. We published that in a New York Times bestselling book, and we almost never get cited for those things. And then, you know, my focus funnel from my TED talk on how to multiply time and in a brand builders group, I mean, we’ve got dozens of these visual frameworks.
RV (03:45):
Now, some of those things are, are, are not trademarks that we can get. Like success is never owned. It’s rented. The rent is due every day. That’s more of like, you know, kind of like a copyright issue. Anyways, we, we need to, we need to do an episode for you on the difference between just copyrights and, and and trademarks. But specifically what, what Todd was talking about is these visual frameworks that you create, which we have a bunch of them, right? Like we have the brand DNA Helix and the modular content method. I mean, we have the, the services spectrum, and I mean on and on and on on, we have the marketing map for book launches. And I mean, every single one of our 14 curriculums has at least two to five frameworks. And in our captivating content course we teach people how to create their own frameworks.
RV (04:38):
Like we teach our clients how to do this is something that we’re really good at. What we haven’t been doing is actually protecting them legally. And this is the part that blew my mind is he said, each trademark is worth approximately $250,000 to your valuation. So we’ve got 14 topics in our curriculum. We have 14 courses in our full curriculum. Let’s just say that each one of those has three frameworks, some of ’em have more, but if we have three, then that’s, that is 30. That means we have 42, we got 42 frameworks. What is the math on this? I need to look at this. I got so pause for the interruption here. So if we’ve got a minimum, let’s say 42 frameworks in our whole Brand Builders group curriculum and $250,000 each, that is 10 million by itself. That means we could, you know, according to this rough math, right?
RV (05:39):
And it’s, it’s rough math, but it’s, it’s, it’s based on, it’s based in reality. We could add 10 million to our company valuation by going out and getting trademarks and all this. So guess what we’re doing? We are getting trademarks like crazy. So we have started this process. We are going down that path to get trademarks on these things because they’re super duper powerful. So anyways that is a big, a big, big, big deal. And, and, and a and a big i a big idea. So I think that was fascinating. So you gotta, first of all, it shows you the power of creating frameworks, which if you don’t know what that is, like gosh, request a call with us, y’all like free brand call.com/podcast. Just do it. And seriously, you’re talking about millions of dollars in, in this one thing. If we teach you how to create like a couple frameworks, it can be worth a million dollars to you.
RV (06:36):
Like that. One thing that you would learn, and this is one of our biggest specialties, is helping people create their own visual frameworks and things. And and then we’re about to make a specialty of how to get those things trademarked,
RV (07:29):
But then what you need to do is then go back and record yourself on explaining why you trained it the way you trained it. Record that. And that becomes the, the train the trainer content. And so the train, the train, their model, which has been around for decades is this idea that, you know, like with companies like frankly, Covey was one of the, one of the, you know, they went public for doing this. They were, they’re nine figure business and went public and a huge part of what they did. So I remember I got to meet Dr. Covey. So, you know, this is all based on seven habits of highly Effective People. And the late Dr. Steven Covey and I got to meet his son one time. He came to our house, someone invited him to our house, we had this little get together, and he was explaining to me how they did their whole business.
RV (08:14):
And, and a big part of it was this train the trainer model where you, you know, let’s say they have you, you have your program, you have your normal course, and let’s just say it takes two days for someone to go through your full experience. Well, when you sell it, you can say, okay, come through the, the full program for two days and you pay X or pay X plus y and stay a third day or a fourth day, and I’ll, I’ll certify you. So not only will you go through the program, you also will become certified to teach the program to other people. And that’s a train the trainer model. Or sometimes people would call it a two plus one because it was like basically a two day public event and then a one day certification training and the content for that third day is what he was talking about.
RV (09:02):
So what Todd was talking about in the interview was saying, you know, train your, train it record, record yourself training it, and then record yourself explaining why you trained it that way. And that is what becomes the content for that third day, which becomes a product in and of itself that you can sell for lots of money. And then, you know, the way that the Covey, you know, family was describing this to me, is that really what that business model is, is shipping kits. They’re shipping kits. What does that mean? Because they, they, they wouldn’t make their money on the, the certification as much, although you can. You know, there’s, we got a lot of friends that do certifications, make a lot of money doing it, Donald Miller. And you know, like Jeffrey Gier does this, John Maxwell does this where they certify, they certify, by the way, if you didn’t know, this Brand Builders group now is certifying and licensing our content to people to go out and teach different parts of our content.
RV (09:55):
We don’t license all 14 parts, but there are certain parts of our curriculum that you can get licensed in, and we can, we can help you move faster in your business by giving you our content, you licensing, you’re buying our content, but then having the right to go reteach it and charge, you know, bundle it in with your other services and charge and our content’s amazing. And it’s really, really well, well polished. So anyways, the way that the Train the trainer model works is, so you, you know, you make money selling someone to come to your two day event. You make more money certifying them on how to teach your content, but then where they would make the most money is that they, they could, they could charge whatever they wanted to put people through their class. The only caveat of the arrangement legally was that they had to buy their kits for certifying people through the, the home company, right?
RV (10:50):
So, so say for example, you paid Brand builders group, you know, whatever, let’s, let’s call $5,000 you know, 7,500 bucks, something like that. Which is often, you know, typically somewhere between 20 512,500 is typically what you’ll pay for like an annual license to be able to teach somebody else’s content, right? And then you get to come and part of that includes, you know, materials and everything, but then when you go out and you, you sell it and you say, all right, I’m gonna host a class on this thing, but then you have to buy the workbooks from us. And what they do is they make these really nice kits with workbook. You know, the, first of all, the book is in there, workbooks are in there. They have little chachkis desk calendars, quote books you know, maybe CDs, maybe little like, you know, action guides or whatever.
RV (11:37):
And you know, maybe a magnet and flyer, you know, like some, like a map they put up on the wall. All these different sort of like ches that you build around your content and it comes in this box, which is a kit. Well, if, let’s say someone from United Healthcare as an example likes your content, they come through, they get certified, you might make a few thousand bucks from that person getting certified. But what you really want is you want them to, to take 5,000 employees through your content. Cuz now 5,000 people are getting introduced to your content and they’re also buying 5,000 kits. Well, if each one of those kits is a hundred bucks, y’all, what is this? 5,000 times a hundred. I don’t wanna overestimate this. That’s $500,000 from one customer, from one event, you know, from one from one company.
RV (12:29):
You could make a half a million dollars doing that. And that’s what, that’s what the train the trainer model is. And so that’s just, you know, it was super pragmatic. It was a good reminder of that, that business model. And and that is something by the way, that we are doing. So, you know, if you actually, if you actually go to brand builders group.com, if you are looking at if you’re interested in this, I’m pulling up our own website here for a second just to make sure I tell you, right? But if you go to brand builders group.com and then you go under brand strategy, there’s a, there’s a link that says content licensing, and you should do this. You know, even if you’re not a, you know, if you’re, even if you’re not interested in getting certified on our content to, to resell it you should go to this page.
RV (13:12):
The shortcut to the page, by the way, is brand builders group.com/get certified. You can at least go to this page and see how we’re doing it and see how we’re, we’re selling our certifications and you know, just monitor that. But like the book Strength Finders, you know, we interviewed Tom Rath on this podcast. It’s the best selling non-fiction book of all time other than the Bible. And the you know, since the creation of Amazon, I should say. And that’s what they do. They sell thousands of copies every week. Cause they’re a train the trainer model. And so people are buying, like, buying these, buy the droves because they’re certifying their clients and they basically have an army of salespeople out there selling this book and this methodology. So really, really powerful stuff. Again, you gotta be protected. So you need to have your trademarks in place, you gotta have your agreements, you gotta have good frameworks, you gotta have tight content, all the, all the things that we, we coach people on how to do.
RV (14:11):
But then, gosh, this is how you go out and scale it, which is just like exponential thinking, really, really, really powerful. And then the third takeaway for me from this interview, which was just a good reminder, and you can’t, you can’t hear this enough, and I can’t hear this enough, but I loved that Todd really edified this and, and, and, and hit it hard as he said. You know, everyone spends all their time on the, on the, the marketing and sales side of the business. But when you’re building a truly scalable coaching company, or when you’re trying to create intellectual property that actually has enterprise value, it’s
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Really all about the delivery. It’s all about the implementation, it’s all about the execution. It’s about, it’s the client success that grows the business. The way that we say this is that the, the best form of marketing is to turn your customer force into your sales force. How do you turn your customer force into your sales force? You help your customer succeed and everything you do, if you, you have to become consumed. You have to become like just completely infatuated and, and, and like totally focused on how do I help my clients succeed faster? You wanna grow your coaching business, that’s the number one question you need to be answering. How can I help my clients succeed faster? What tools can I help them to implement faster? What, what support do they need? What type of training? What type of structure? And it’s all about, it’s not so much, oh, I need to teach you everything.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You know, I need to be focused, not so much on teaching you everything you need to know. I need to be focused on helping you get results as fast as you can. I need you to get traction quickly. And so you’re, you’re perpetually innovating. You’re, you’re iterating your content, you’re adapting, improving your content. Not to add more content, but to basically do it, to, to have less and go, what’s the least amount I can teach to get so that somebody has to consume the least amount in order to get the result? And that’s very much what we are. You know, the journey that we’re on right now in Brand Builders group. We’ve got amazing content and curriculum, and now it’s just like we’re constantly going, how can we sharpen this and whittle it down and, and make it tighter? I would also point you to the interview that we did with Amy Porterfield on this show.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
By the way, Amy Porterfield is now one of our clients brand’s group client, which is super exciting. And we, but before Amy was a client, I interviewed her on the show talking about creating courses and, and we did this whole thing about she was talking about the importance of getting your students to complete the course and, and things that you need to do along that way. And so that’s what I want you to be focused on, right? Like the best form of marketing is a changed life. The best form of marketing is a changed life. The best form of marketing is a customer of yours who wins a a customer who creates a massive result. And this is why we’re talking about our customers all the time, right? Like we just had our 11th customer this last week hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller list 11 times.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
We have helped a client hit the New York Times Wall Street Journal and or USA Today bestseller list 11 times. We just had our fourth client create a viral TED talk, meaning they wrote a TED talk that got over a million views. This is somebody that we’ve been coaching for years following our methodology of applying the principles and applying it to a Ted, TED talk and getting over a million views a fourth time. We’ve done that, right? Like we, we have four clients, four clients that have gone from zero to over a million dollars in business within a couple years of starting in our program from, from like zero to over seven figures a year. Now, we don’t promise that for everybody. That’s not an income claim. I’m not guaranteeing that. I’m saying though, that we’ve had four people do that. So these are the results that make people like, those are the wins.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
We need more of that. We don’t need four, we need 400, right? So that is the, that’s the, that’s where you want the obsession to be. Not just how do I sell somebody and get a new client, but going, how can I help my client succeed faster? How can I help them win? How can I what can I do to shorten the learning curve? What tools and templates can I create for them to get them there quicker? And, you know, that is, that is where the magic happens. That’s how you get people to win. The most powerful form of marketing is a changed life. And when you focus on that, you turn your customer force into your sales force. And once that happens, you’re gonna have exponential radical growth. You’re gonna be scaling a business and scaling a company that has real enterprise value that is a high level education some seriously valuable information.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The interview with Todd and this, you know, what we’re talking about here. So share this episode. Will you, with somebody who’s serious about scaling their personal brand, not just having one, but going, how do you scale one to multi seven figures and eight figures? This is something we know something about, right? We have had four, AJ and I have launched four multimillion dollar businesses and and an eight figure business. And brand builders group is very much on its way to eight figures. We should be at eight figures within the next year or two. So like these concepts work. They’re powerful, life changing, I mean, changing the complete trajectory of your family tree and you’re learning it for free right here on the Influential Personal Brand podcast. And of course, if you want to come alongside of us and let us be your personal coach and help you implement these things directly and apply them faster so that you can get results quicker, go to free brand call.com/podcast and let’s have a chat about that. Until then, keep tuning in here. Enjoy it. Thank you for being here. We’re so grateful for you. Share this with your friends, keep coming back. We love ya. And we’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.
Ep 342: How to Scale a Coaching Company and License Your IP with Todd Herman
RV (00:02):
You know, as humbly as I can say, sometimes when I think about this podcast, I go, it’s insane the quality of the guests that you hear and get access to for free and the quality of guests that I get access to for free. And today is definitely an example of that you are about to meet. If you don’t already know one of the smartest people in business, in personal development. That’s how I would describe Todd Herman. We’ve known each other for years at a distance. We’ve, we kind of gotten closer over the last few years and just every time I turn around somebody’s talking about how brilliant this guy is and how sharp and how awesome he is. So he’s a Wall Street Journal bestselling author of a book called The Alter Ego Effect the Power of Secret Identities to Transform Your Life, which came out years ago, but has been, you know, one of these perennial bestsellers.
RV (00:55):
He’s an international speaker, he’s a peak performance coach. He has been the recipient of Inc’s 500 fastest growing Companies award. He speaks for groups like ypo, like some of the most prolific groups around of course he’s been featured in CBS and Business Insider. A lot of the like, you know, major media kind of empires. But one of the things that Todd has done that is super unique, which is what I am particularly interested in, not cuz we’re trying to do this, but because we kind of did this once and very few people do it, is scaling a training, coaching, consulting business and selling it. He has done this three different times in three different ways with sort of three different group, like three different kind of models, which is what we’re gonna talk about because I think that this is the future. I think that pe personal brands eventually wake up to the idea to go, yeah, I wanna be well known. I wanna have influence, I wanna have reach, but dang it, if I’m gonna work as hard as normal entrepreneurs, I also wanna have something that has enterprise value and asset value. So anyways, I kind of just begged Todd to say, dude, will you come on the show and just like, share your wisdom. And it took me a long time to coordinate schedules, but he’s here. It’s great to have you bro.
TH (02:14):
Dude, I’m excited. Yeah, just to dig into this stuff cause I know your audience and the topic around, you know, building a coaching business that could be somewhat sellable for someone is such a foreign concept for many people. Not that everyone has to sell something, but I’ve been in this space for 26 years. I’m going into my 26 year, I started in 1997 before coaching was a thing. So happy to open up the kimono so, so to speak and just drop as much as I can to help out.
RV (02:47):
Yeah. Well, I’d love to hear it. And I do wanna get into, I wanna talk a little bit about alter ego, cuz I know that ties in, I mean, that ties into it. Yeah. But just to give us the history of scaling and selling a company and, and I want to hear just kinda like, okay, you have these sort of three different generations or iterations that you’ve done. Yeah. And you know, I think like I was mentored by Zig Ziegler and I knew him personally and I was, I was friends with him when he fell and he hit his head and he started to lose his short term memory. And it was interesting to see how that affected the business. Right. Yeah. And he couldn’t speak anymore. And of course Dave Ramsey is here in Nashville and he’s been thinking about y for years about succession planning and scaling the business beyond him and creating the personalities. And I think this is, as personal brands wake up to the idea of going, man, how do I build something that outlasts me that runs without me? I’m not the just the dancing bear on stage all the time. Yeah. And you, you’ve, you’ve done that, man. So tell us, tell us three quick stories about what they were.
TH (03:51):
Yeah, so the, the very first one was the peak athlete, which is what I started in 97. And I was you know, very young at the time. I was 21 when I started doing mental game coaching, people performance stuff for athletes. And I as I was growing that business, I did it on the back of really only one channel. So there’s different types of channels we can all use to market with, right? And so the only thing I knew how to do, I was not a marketer by any stretch imagination, but I grew up in the world of four h I grew up on a big ranch in farming. Yeah. Canada, and, you know, in the world of four H, it’s like agricultural boy scouts for people who don’t know. And you always had to do a speech every single year in your club.
TH (04:35):
And if you won that one, then you’d go to the next level and next level, next level. So I started when I was 10 and I just fell in love with speaking. I was very natural at it. And that was what I used to grow the peak athlete was I offered free speeches in a context of 90 days and I ended up doing 68 free speeches in my province of Alberta where I was living at the time. And people go 68 species, 90 a day. How did that happen? And I mean, that’s a completely different story, but that’s what kind of got me my waiting list of clients. Okay. Got it. That it, and so, but I was trading nothing but time for dollar. I was super busy. I would charged $75 for a package of three sessions. That’s what my price point was when I did my quick in taxes in 97, 98, 99, I was making $8 and 56 cents an hour.
RV (05:24):
Nice
TH (05:26):
Gas money was my biggest cost was traveling around all these young kids after school to, to see them. But I’m a big,
RV (05:34):
You were selling to kids, you were doing speeches and then at the end of the speech you were basically saying, Hey, if you like this, join my, my $75 package coaching program.
TH (05:45):
Yep. Yep. How I gave up my free speech was I said, I’ll do my talk for free. Normally it’s $2,200, but if you get all one parent from each of the kids in the room, I’ll do it for free because they’re the wallet holder. Right. That was the, that was the worst part about that business was this person’s getting the service, but this other person’s paying for it. Right. But as a parent, we’ll do anything for our kids. Right. So that was the, that was what I did. So the offers were either work with a kid one on one or come in and work with a team. So I was just learning as I was going. There was no internet back then for me to be Googling how to run a coaching business because that wasn’t even an industry at the time.
TH (06:26):
And so this is awesome. I love this so much, but I was super, but I was, you know, even though I wasn’t making much money, I was busy and I was working a lot and I loved what I was doing, so I was getting a lot of reps, which is probably the thing that’s most overlooked in I think our world today. People are trying to race towards expertise status before they ever even have any sort of practitionership or, you know, send you on the muscle or on the bone. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve passed well over 19,000 hours of 1 0 1 coaching with elite athletes. So, long story short was, was doing quite well, but I didn’t, I just knew I didn’t know enough. So I sought out a mentor named Harvey Dorfman, and he’s known as the Yoda Baseball greatest mental game coach to ever live.
TH (07:14):
Cold called him, asked if I could come and spend some time with him in North Carolina during the baseball off season. And he called me back and he said, you’re not gonna live with me kid, are you? And I said, no, I have got an aunt and uncle who lived near you in North Carolina, which was a lie. That wasn’t true at all.
TH (07:56):
And then he started funneling me clients and he also talked to me about like, hey, like developing intellectual property, had never heard of that before. So, you know how this then ties into all these other ones is if you wanna grow and scale and ultimately sell a business, what people don’t understand about this world is one of the first questions any company is gonna ask you is how many trademarks do you own? Okay. My company now, like the one that I, the one existing I own 44 trademarks. Wow. Each one of those trademarks has a dollar value on it. So everyone thinks it’s all about, well how much revenue are you doing in your company? No. A buying company wants to know how well is your stuff protected in the inte cuz this, this is what we’re selling is intellectual property, whether it’s your coaching process, whether it’s the method that you have, whether it’s the brand framework that you use. And so I fell down that rabbit hole of learning about intellectual property. I went to Steve Jobs, his mentor David Sip is his name. He wrote the book visual meetings, visual teams, visual leaders. Steve Jobs only mentor mentioned him once. And that was at a speech that I happened to be at at University of Washington. So I went and learned how to draw models and create models and frameworks and whatnot. So ultimately the peak athlete ended up selling two decades later almost to Ral Madrid. In,
RV (09:25):
So did you have other like coaches or was it just the methodology in the IP that you sold?
TH (09:31):
I, i, rare there was I never scaled through other coaches. I scaled through intellectual property and licensing. So the peak athlete, I built out a amazing training system for developing the inner inner game of athletes. And then I licensed it to the German soccer federation, the Danish Olympic team, the South African spring box sports teams around the world. And
RV (09:58):
I actually just went to a South African spring box rugby game in Sydney, Australia, like a month ago.
TH (10:06):
That’s how lucky are you? That would’ve been a great game because it
RV (10:08):
Was, it was awesome. So you you, you licensed this methodology to these teams. Yeah. So you just cold called these teams and then said, Hey, I’ve got a process for training your athletes and it’ll cost you this much per year or whatever.
TH (10:26):
Well, I mean, this goes back to the benefit of speaking a lot. So I would, because I was speaking so much, all the leads were basically coming in at the end of those talks. And then I had built up such a good name that at the highest level of really any industry, most decisions are made by, you know, Hey Rory, do you know anyone that is XY good at X, Y, and Z? Yeah. And if you can keep your name top of mind, which is, which is branding or personal branding it’s a com It’s a very unfair advantage that you have. So I never had to do as much cold calling. I did do direct outreach, but that really wasn’t my game. My game was getting on stages and around the world talking about what I talked about and which was building the triune athlete, the mentally, emotionally, and physically tough athlete. And and then giving people processes. And then, you know, I would mention in my stories in case studies that, you know, the German soccer federation since 2004 has been, you know, licensing our training and, and their development of their athletes and, and on and on and on.
RV (11:36):
So yeah. So you weren’t cold calling them, you were working through relationships, but they were, they were a client of yours, so they were paying to access your system.
TH (11:46):
Yeah.
RV (11:47):
Yeah. And then you would deliver it to them.
TH (11:49):
Like, I would do a train the trainer series. I would do a trainer, the trainer series with all their people one showing them how to train on it and then second showing them how to coach on it. And that was the secret was because there was a lot of stuff out there that’s training in nature. The problem is if your stuff is only at the level of training someone or educating, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s becoming an embedded part of the ethos or the philosophy of an organization. But when people are now taking the training and implementing it through coaching, that’s a very different you know, essentially metastas metastasized tumor that goes on inside of that company. So, you know, German Soccer Federation renewed that license for well over a decade with me. So I did the work once and then every year I would do an update with them. Typically a two hour call with their head of training and a few other people. And and that was basically it.
RV (12:56):
Interesting. So they’re just, so you’re trained the trainers and then you’re licensing the IP for them to go and administer it. How do you define the difference between training and coaching?
TH (13:10):
Well training is typically one to many people at the front of a room where you’re introducing whether it’s new concepts, new methods, you’re, you’re teaching something, you’re training someone on how to, especially with our world of like intellectual property and think like, I’m not showing you how to swing a baseball bat necessarily. Cuz you can train someone on that and you can, that’s where training and coaching kind of gets a little bit mixed up at the same time. But in our world, there are two very different disciplines. Training is giving them the processes, the systems coaching is ensuring that it’s being put into action. And coaching is really about three things. There’s really, coaching is only three things. Encouragement, accountability, and progress. Those are the three legs of the stool that support a coach. If you’re someone who doesn’t know how to encourage or can’t hold people accountable or can’t model back to people the progress that they’re making, those you would grade yourself very low on being a good coach.
RV (14:12):
And so then who did you sell this to? Because you’re already, you’re already printing money, right? If you’re licensing it, it’s just like, yeah, these people are using it and that person is using it. So like, who did you sell it? How did you identify the buyer? How do you value that kind of a thing. Mm-Hmm.
TH (14:32):
Yeah. So first, who did you sell to? It was as two ways you came in. Relationships with coaches would be the most common way for me to come in. So could be the the, the GM or coach of, say the German national soccer team. Okay. And I develop a relationship with him because I have a relationship already with the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Like people don’t realize in sport just how much people from other industries now share and talk. And I got to live through that cycle in the eighties and nineties, not necessarily so, but two thousands, very collaborative culture. And so in through the coach or in through training directors you’ll be be looking for, let’s say the director of training for the Danish Olympic team. Okay. They’re the people who are tasked with how can we improve and develop our athletes. And they’re out there constantly doing research, trying to find out what’s new in physiology, behavioral sciences, neurosciences and, and whatnot. And that’s, those would be the two main people that I’d be coming in through was there in professional sports. Like the nhl I did a direct mail campaign and it was, I sent out the direct mail campaign to the GMs of the teams and to the head coaches. So every team would get two letters. One to the GM and one to the head coach of the team.
RV (16:01):
Yeah. So when I meant sell, so that’s awesome. That’s, that’s helpful is just like, you know, there’s somebody in charge of buying the thing and you figure out who they are and you work through referrals and presentations and direct mail. Yeah. I meant when you sold the company, did you, you actually sold that company?
TH (16:17):
Yeah. So what happened was Real Madrid has now become the the diamond on top of the sports mountain. There are sports teams from around the world who go to Real Madrid University. They have a university now and make a pilgrimage to go and learn about how Ral Madrid develops their athletes because they’ve been so far ahead of everybody else. Like North American Sport has been an archaic mountain for a long time with the way that they’ve approached sport. And Ral Madrid has been way on the forefront of diagnostic type stuff. You know, getting people to wear bio feedbacks type devices. And so I was a part of a team that came in to develop Al Madrid’s Peak Performance system. And so like working with like Christian Ronaldo and, and those guys, but that’s who ultimately wanted to buy it and own, own the IP that I had.
RV (17:17):
Okay. So they just,
TH (17:17):
So the deal, the deal that I struck with them was they can buy it and then and, and they didn’t care about any of the revenue. They just wanted to own it. And, and so all those other basically contracts that I had it was a two year out. They could, the German soccer federation could continue to use it for two more years. I got to con I got to keep it for my own personal use though as well.
RV (17:44):
So when you sold it, you basically maintained like your own global license to use it and train it however you want it?
TH (17:50):
No, not global license. I could use it for one on one clientele. Cause I had built up such a big name in sport. Like, you know, when Kobe Bryant is one of your clients and you helped him build out the black mamba, you know, and, and your, my entire world was built around referability. So the only way that you could get to me to work with me one on one was you had to be referred by a present client or past client. And so I could use it for 1 0 1 stuff. That was, that was the only thing I really cared about. Yeah. I
RV (18:16):
Got that. So, and did they approach, so did they approach you about it, I guess? Or did you approach them like they
TH (18:22):
Say No, cause I was already work. Yeah, I was already working with them. The relationship is so strong. They see its impact, you know, and like when you think about the frustrations that all of us can have around wanting to achieve any sort of goal or mark of excellence in some sort of discipline, whether it’s marketing or whatever. And we’ve all been handed bits and pieces to things when someone comes along and they actually have a well defined complete and codified system of dealing with a whole athlete, which then also permeates at the team level. It’s so refreshing. And when you think about from now that program director side of things, or the head coach or the gm, they’re like, this allows me to not have to go out and acquire 10 other people to do this. I got one stop, like it was a full meal deal type thing.
TH (19:13):
And that was always my goal was to like continuously develop it. I was the first, like back when I started sports psychology was the term that was used. And we were the first company to hire three neuroscientists to come onto our team. We were the first ones to dive into the actual science because when people actually know anything about psychology or psychiatry, out of all the scientific disciplines, it’s the least sciency. It’s the most theoretical. And we were the first ones to start really diving into the science of it. And so that’s just because I come from a farm and ranch, you know, my dad has phrases like, well that dog won’t hunt, which is basically a, you know, a barometer. And I found a ton of it in, and I still find a ton of it in the self-help, personal development, you know, all that kind of world space. People are still spouting off stuff that was written 70 years ago that is categorically, categorically proven to either be false or very ineffective. There are way smarter ways to go about achieving some level of mastery or success than what, so
RV (20:20):
Did you have a lot of employees when you sold this? Or was it really just like, it was the ip It was basically a IP and some trademarks and that was,
TH (20:26):
I kept it super lean all the way. So at my, at my max for the peak athlete, we had seven team members.
RV (20:34):
Yeah. Seven. Yeah. Uhhuh. Okay. So then, so then tell us about the next ones. This is fascinating. So the next one, so that’s really like an IP business. You’re basically selling your methodology to someone who just says, we love it, we believe in it, we want it, we wanna own it.
TH (20:51):
Done. Yeah. So, so this ties into again, your personal brand world. So here I am speaking on stages. A lot of times the people in your audience are not target markets for you, but they like the topic that you have. So here I am talking to athletes and sports teams and invariably, once you start rising through the ranks of sport, a lot of times the only people who can afford to keep their athlete in more elite levels is people that have got some money in their pocket. And one of the things that started happening was, I’d get people coming to me afterwards and say, listen, I loved what you just said about you know, the Traian athlete or developing mental toughness or inner game stuff or emotional resiliency and, you know, but I was thinking the entire time, these are all the same issues I’ve got on my team in my business or my team or department in the government.
TH (21:47):
And so people would say like, could you do the same thing for my company? And for the first couple of times I’d say, no, you know, I don’t really know. And that was maybe, maybe the immaturity of my entrepreneurship. A great entrepreneur would’ve, would’ve went. Yeah, absolutely. And so I said this to one of my mentors. You talked about Zig Zigler. Jim Roan was one of my mentors. He was actually my first. Oh cool. I met him when I was 21. And I actually know some funny stories about Jim and Zig behind the scenes too. But Zieg always got very frustrated with the fact that Jim was terrible at returning phone calls
TH (22:36):
So what I then started was a company called No Limits Coaching and Consulting, which was geared towards performance and leadership training and coaching for the corporate and government world. Okay. And I used, again, just speaking to kind of build that up, it was almost like a little side hustle thing I think for me to say yes to. Ultimately though, that one ended up becoming bigger than the sports one, cuz corporate can spend way more money. And it’s actually what forced me to do licensing because I wasn’t able to devote as much time anymore to, to the peak athlete as much. So it’s a great example of how constraints are actually great powers of invention for you because with that, I ended up, because the peak athlete when I ended up selling it was the world’s largest mental game coaching and peak performance company in revenue and in number of people that we served.
TH (23:31):
Cuz we did well over 2 million athletes in total coming through our training programs back then. So No Limits. My first client was actually the Canadian government. They were, cuz that was Rick came up to me at the end of one of my small little talks of 30 kids and asked me. And so I just simply took the ip. And this is a good example of taking it into just a new market. The product never changed that much, you know, change out some lipstick and some eyeshadow on it, right. 20% of it just to make sure it’s customized to that audience. But human performance is human performance. It doesn’t matter if it’s really on the field over here or on the court and or whether it’s in the boardroom or sitting at your desk. Performances. Performance is performance. And that’s, that’s how I started to grow that business. And,
RV (24:22):
But you had sold the, you had sort, you had sort of sold this ip, so like the certain visuals and labels and all those things, you just have frameworks to like, you have to change that, but the principles are the same and the you can’t, you can’t just, like nobody owns principles.
TH (24:38):
Yeah. No one owns principles, but the moment you put something into a shape, you can trademark it. So circles, triangles and squares are your best friend in in our world. So if, if you have steps, if you have processes, you can’t trademark those, but you can trademark things like, so I’ve got one, people can go to it and it’s, it’s a good learning lesson. So my, my entrepreneurial performance training company 90 day year. So if you go to 90 year.com and there’s one called the Five Stages of Business, that hierarchy model, it’s like almost like Maslow’s Hierarchy needs my five stages of business that is a trademark piece of IP that cannot be replicated, reproduced without the express written consent of me and my company.
RV (25:27):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (25:28):
And so I’m a very big protector of ip. I’m actually well known for it in, in kind of our world. Like you, you don’t, you don’t touch my stuff.
RV (25:38):
So let’s talk about that. Okay. So, okay, so these are the three companies. So you have the sports company, then you have the leadership company. Yeah. Who’d you sell the leadership company to
TH (25:47):
Chevron.
RV (25:48):
What?
TH (25:49):
Yeah, so I did a speech in San Antonio, Texas. It was a leadership event. And just so happened that this guy Ken was, who was the executive VP at Chevron, came up to me and they were dealing with a major issue with developing a workforce. That was a big divide between the seniors and the juniors because in the 1980s there was no investment in the oil and gas space. So they had something called the big crew change, which was all these people who were senior were gonna be leaving with all of the intellectual property of how to run a, you know, oil and gas or energy company. And they had no one to backfill with. And they’d been trying to fix it for a decade, but no one was coming together. And he came to me and said, I think you’re the guy who can do this.
TH (26:36):
And I was like, I’ve never been in your space. I mean, I grew up on a farm and ranch and I know the gas world about as much as anyone driving by a, a pumping rig. And I said no at first. And then he convinced me with maybe a little bit more money. And I also realized I was, the opportunity was gonna be incredible cuz I was gonna be sitting down with the CEOs and presidents in sometimes even leaders of countries around the world getting this big project done. And ultimately they ended up buying that leadership and performance training system that I had.
RV (27:10):
So was it very similar? They’re basically buying a set of frameworks and, and visuals and methods and phrases and charts and tables
TH (27:20):
And, and a train the trainer system that could be easily deployed towards remote, you know, areas around the world. Exactly.
RV (27:27):
Yeah. So, so, so the train the trainer thing is interesting. So basically you have to, it’s almost like you have two things to build. You have to build the thing and then you have to build the thing that trains people to teach the thing. Exactly.
TH (27:40):
Yeah. So you’ve got, and the easiest way to think about it is, here’s how you would do it is if you train it, then record yourself going through why you trained it the way that you trained it. And then I would take that and then I would take that transcript and then I would just go make my edits into it. And when you start to like, learn more about facilitation skills, how to be a great facilitator, the first thing that I learned in my, my own growth as a, you know, person in this space in my own career was how unimportant sometimes the content was.
TH (28:19):
Hmm. We all try to overwhelm people with lots of content and what’s more important is getting people traction and momentum. Because most people’s experience of almost all courses and training programs is they never did implement anything. But if you’re the one who even got them from 0.1 to 0.2 or you know, A to B, let alone z cuz we’re all thinking about, I’m gonna get you to Z but that’s, you imparting your own desires and motivations onto the one learner. And all some people want is just a, a micro improvement even. So anyways, that’s just, you know, when you learn good facilitation skills, you learn that, you know, not to overwhelm people with content, content is, is very important.
RV (29:05):
So your buyer came up, your buyer in that scenario came out very similarly. They were someone that saw you in a speech, they became a fan, you develop relationship. They, they become a customer basically as a customer. They go, man, we like it. We believe in it, we want it, we don’t want else to have this. Here’s a check and we’ll take that from you.
TH (29:25):
That’s right.
RV (29:27):
Yeah. I love that. I freaking love that. Yeah. So then, so then the third one is an entrepreneurial coaching company.
TH (29:35):
Well that’s my, that’s my current one. That’s the third one was another one that happened in about a six month time span after I had sold the leadership company. I still had a bunch of intellectual property that was left over and I was kind of just looking for my next thing to do while I was still,
RV (29:54):
They didn’t want, like they didn’t, they didn’t wanna, that
TH (29:57):
Didn’t need didn’t serve their needs. Yeah. Didn’t serve their, you know, the market of who they had. So then I went and sold that last little bit to which, which now getting to your point of trying to find a buyer, this was me going out and finding a buyer. And I, what, what I did was I pinged about, I think it was probably 18 different friends in the industry and said, Hey, I have this piece of like training material. It would most likely be best for this industry, this type of, you know, client, customer, do any of you know anyone who would be interested in, in purchasing it? And a friend reached out right away from the self-defense market and, and said this stuff would be outstanding in for a friend of mine. And then they made the connection and, and that was how it sold. And, and Rory, this is actually a real, this is something I talk about a lot to all of our mentoring clients as well. The hardest part about this business model, everyone says it’s so easy and, and they’re wrong. It’s not, coaching is not as easy as everyone says it is.
RV (31:05):
TH (31:05):
No, coaching is very, everyone says it’s so easy because it doesn’t take any inventory. You don’t have to buy something and it’s gotta be on a ship that comes over and sits in a warehouse somewhere. So it’s taking up cash flow or you know, something like that. But, you know, building any business where you’re building the product and the marketing at the same time is very, very challenging. And so one of the things that I had done early on was I learned about licensing. And so that’s what I did was I went out and bought up and I licensed other people’s training from them to make me go faster so I could go out and impact more people. So you know, my worst decisions in my career have always been based on ego. You know, I needed to do it to satisfy my own ego needs and my best decisions were all ones where I I didn’t try to do it on my own. I went and I, you know, whether it’s license something or I outright just buy it from someone their own ip. Cuz you can buy information for a lot of people don’t know how to value things. And
RV (32:08):
Well I wanted to ask you about that. Like how do you, how do you go about valuing this? Right? So I mean, let’s say somebody’s listening right now and they’re like, man, I’ve been in the mortgage industry for 30 years. I got the training manual, da da da. Like I got the whole thing. And I mean, I, the way that I think about a business is, you know, and I think the, the, yeah. My, my undergrad was accounting, right? And so I process it from a very financial, it’s like, it’s a, it’s a present value of a future stream of estimated cash flows. Mm-Hmm.
TH (33:16):
That’s exactly right. Yeah. And so sometimes people are looking at speed, okay, does this thing, is this thing gonna make us go faster or is this thing gonna make us, or is this thing gonna make, give us a a competitive advantage over other people that was real madrid’s play with with my stuff because they were building up this university and now they didn’t have to go build curriculum, hire other people to put it together, try and get people to collaborate together who have very strong opinions on things, know it has to be this way and this way and and that way. That’s always the challenge about bringing, you know, anyone who’s a subject matter expert on something together is you bring seven together in a room and you got a lot of times seven different opinions on how it should be done or could be done.
TH (34:00):
So you’re avoiding political hassle then as well. And you get to monetize it tomorrow. That was, that was what Ri Madrid could go into. A Chevron wasn’t caring about monetization, they were caring about actually the big massive problem that they had, which was this big crew change. And so, so that was speed, then speed to mitigating the problem that they had. So the way that I think about IP and trademarks, this is just a rough number, but it’s born fruit for me three times for every trademark that you own, it’s a worth about a quarter of a million dollars to your business. Your business is value if you, the moment you add a trademark to your company. Now there’s some conditions to this, which I’ll explain, but it’s gonna add $2,000 in valuation to your business. And now if you are in the coaching space of let’s say goddess energy, let’s just say, you know, and there’s no knock against that.
TH (35:01):
There are some people who are do quite well in that space, but that’s not a big market. That’s a market that you actually have to create with your marketing. Cuz no one wakes up and says, I want to be a goddess today. But there’s other people who wake up and they go, man, I am sick and tired of trying to fight so hard for clients, I need a stronger personal brand. Now they might not say it exactly language that way, but personal branding is quite a large market. Alright? So, you know, if you know Brand Builders Inc goes out and takes a look at their IP and readjusts it and makes it more trademarkable and registers it, and you have 10 of those pieces you just added, even if you have no clients, that’s two and a half million dollars worth of valuation
RV (35:54):
And, and to do this process. So each one you’re saying is maybe roughly valued at 250,000. Yeah. How much does it cost? Cuz you, if you create it, you gotta hire a lawyer, you gotta fill out some paperwork, you gotta file, do some filing, you gotta wait for some approval, you have to like answer questions, go back and forth, and then one day the,
TH (36:17):
It’s not that, it’s, it’s, it sounds super hard to a lot of people. I thought it was exactly like that to Rory the first time I did it. And then I
RV (36:24):
Was actually describing that like, it’s pretty easy. Like, it’s like these are a few very simple tacticals. It’s a, I mean, is there more to it? Well,
TH (36:32):
The, the answer the answer for me and you, I mean, I send everyone to the same lawyer that’s been doing it for me for a long, long time, and he’s been, he’s, he’s literally specializes just in our space, Peter you know, based outta New York and, you know, yeah, I think I I I even forget how much it costs me anymore, but I think it’s probably somewhere around 2,500 bucks, you know, from start to finish with the different people who are involved. Very little time on my end to get it done. But, you know, someone else can go and do all the filings themselves and it’ll cost them a few hundred bucks.
RV (37:05):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (37:06):
RV (37:39):
And what if you find out that, like what if you find out what if you find out that somebody created something after you, so like, let’s say that you have created this thing, it’s been in use and now somebody else has it. If they got the trademark first, does that prevent you from basically getting it? No.
TH (37:59):
No, because there’s I, I forget the actual technical term. It’s just on the,
RV (38:05):
It’s like a first, it’s like a first in use.
TH (38:06):
Yeah, exactly. It’s the word is in, there’s something in use. Yeah. But yeah, it’s, if it’s, if you’ve been, if you can prove that it’s been in use for a long, and it is happened with me a couple of times and we were able to prove on two different occasions that we had at in use first. I actually just won a lawsuit against Instagram because they were not giving me an Instagram handle and profile. That’s a trademark name of ours. And Instagram lost and they had to hand it over to me.
RV (38:33):
Take that Zuck. Yeah,
TH (38:36):
You don’t, you don’t win many of those battles
RV (38:44):
So they have to, they have to grant you the handle because you have the registered trademark of that. Absolutely.
TH (38:49):
Because the, the laws of the US trumped whatever their privacy policy in terms of use policy was on their site.
RV (38:57):
Uhhuh
TH (40:19):
I’ll never forget when Creative Comments came out, and then I had a few friends who jumped on it that were in it that had ip and I pinged both of them. And I said, you’re opening up a can of worms here. And like, cuz you can’t unsqueeze the toothpaste once you let your IP or your frameworks be open for anyone to use. Now again, good example is actually business model generation, what I think is one of the best books written in the last 30 years, our most important business books written in the last 30 years by good friend of mine a Smith Alexander Osterwalder. And, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a canvas, it’s a map of business models. Okay, well they, they opened theirs up for creative comments. So if you went and did a Google search for business model canvas or business model generation canvas, you’re gonna get back 36 million results of that image and that canvas being on different blogs and consultants websites around the world, well, a few years back, they wanted to try to stuff all that stuff back inside because they were now their business model changed and they were now running a lot of workshops.
TH (41:27):
Well, problem is, is there were a lot of other consultants out there running workshops off of their canvas. And that’s probably, if you were to factor it out, well over a hundred million in certifications and licensing that’s lost to that business because they could have certified those people in going out and using that canvas. And now they’re certified partners of the business model generation world. So when I say when you get back, going back to your world or idea of policing it, a I tell the story over and over and over again, it’s a part of my brand story. I tell the story of, you don’t touch our stuff. It took, I’ve got 19,000 plus hours on the field of play doing one-on-one coaching. That’s not counting the group and the speeches and the trainings I’ve done around the world, which now doubles that number.
TH (42:18):
Right? you don’t take my stuff and it’s not cease and desist that we send, we sue and we, the minimum amount you earn in America for IP infringement is quarter of a million dollars. Okay? Now we take that money and we donate. I don’t do it. So I can earn money. We take that money and we take off whatever the cost was and then we go and we donate it to one of our favorite charities. She’s the first, which helps young girls in third world countries put them through school. But all it took was a couple of those and people getting stung very hard by our team that we have an army of thousands of people, Rory, who ping us every week saying, Hey, I just saw someone in it looks like they’re using your, your thing. And, and a lot of times it’s not that, like, it’s not an infringement, but we have a lot of people, we found people who were giving away some of our course material as opt-ins and downloads and lead magnets for free. Well, that guy in particular, he’s one of the people who, this was about four years ago, five years ago now, quarter million dollars he lost.
RV (43:29):
Interesting. So then you just, because, because it’s, because it, it is actually protected by a trademark. You’ve got the right to do that. And so you absolutely, you just file a suit and they’re either, I guess, and so they either have to settle with you or they have to stop using it or, or
TH (43:46):
No. Like, no, it’s, it’s, no, they, Rory, it’s, it’s so obtuse and you know, whatever other term can come up right now. But to think that someone isn’t doing it maliciously, they’re doing it malicious, they know what they’re doing, we go to the end, we finish it with them. Interesting. There is no appol, I’m so sorry, I didn’t know what I was doing. And no, there’s none of that. There’s none of that. That’s why like for me, like attribution, it costs you nothing to say, I heard this amazing quote in the book, take the Stairs, or I saw Rory Vaden speak on stage and he says something that was an absolute truth. Rent is due every single day, you know, whatever the full quote is right? No one’s gonna remember that you like, it doesn’t cost you anything to sanitation. I mean, I’ve had people come to me and say like, did you have to name drop the 35 people? And I’m like, well that was their quote
RV (44:48):
Was their citing the citing the So you’re
TH (44:50):
Citing yourself. Yeah. And I am, I’m standing on the shoulders of so many amazing people that help me get to where I am. I’m not gonna dishonor, you know Harvey Dorfman as someone who was so critical to my success when it was his idea that I was just sharing up there
RV (45:05):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (45:05):
RV (45:07):
Yeah. So yeah, this idea, eye
TH (45:10):
Opening, I get it. Like it pains you, it pains you. And this is my problem with people who don’t understand this space. People think that just because it’s words or it’s a picture that anyone else can go and do it. No. If you walked into a sports store and you took a pair of soccer cleats off the shelf and tried to walk up with it, it’s, it’s not shocking that you would get dinged for that. Well, you can’t walk into my intellectual property storehouse and take my thing off the shelf and go pass it off as your own. It’s just not gonna happen.
RV (45:43):
Uhhuh. yeah. Yeah. Well this is eye opening, man. I mean, I, my my Ted talk which is probably the most organically viral thing that we’ve ever had is few, few million views. Yeah. It’s all based around a diagram that I created called the Focus Funnel. And my guess is focus funnel is probably trademarked by someone, but that visual is, if you Google it, it’s everywhere. And you, you know, it’s like all over the place. It’s cuz millions of people have seen that, seen that talk, but we don’t have a trademark on it. Mm-Hmm.
TH (46:57):
Well, I was gonna say, I was gonna say like, so the number that I’ve typically found in a business that’s more mature like yours and that’s, there’s no secret as to why I say I’ve got 44 registered trademarks in our name right now is because the average really well designed program has about 40
RV (47:17):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (47:42):
And, and bigger companies like private equity companies, that’s what they’re gonna look at. They’re gonna, that’s gonna, cuz everyone wants to sell their customer list or their revenue or whatever and you know, people don’t realize that you’re being plugged into a larger ecosystem and yeah, it’s, it’s funny cuz we’re talking about this topic, it’s not something I typically ever get interviewed on. Yeah.
RV (48:02):
That’s why I wanted to ask you about this
TH (48:04):
RV (48:40):
Yeah. Well that is, yeah, that, I’ll say that, that has shaken me more than a couple times where I’m going, this person is basically telling a real, like almost verbatim from something that I posted three months ago, three months ago. And I’m like it’s hard to go. Yeah. You know, is it the same? But it’s like, it’s so close that you’re like, I think anybody would raise an eyebrow at, at this. And it’s anyways, that’s the,
TH (49:11):
Here’s, that’s, here’s here’s the reality. The public doesn’t care.
RV (49:15):
Yeah. The public doesn’t care.
TH (49:17):
Yeah. The public doesn’t care. And so, because I’ve had friends in me like man, because they think I’m spending so much time doing, so I’m like, I don’t spend any time doing this. This is, that’s the purpose of having a systems and processes in your business. And there’s a team of like, when it, when when there’s an inquiry that comes in from a former client or a client and they say, Hey, I think this person, my executive assistant passes that straight along to the legal side and then they just take care of it, I might become aware of it.
RV (49:44):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (49:44):
RV (50:05):
Interesting. Well buddy, this has been amazing. I know that you, and you’re doing a lot of work with entrepreneurs and things now, and we didn’t, I mean we went way over time, but like where, where should people go if they wanna plug into what you got going on?
TH (50:19):
So Todd herman.me is my kind of home base on the internet and that has links going out to all the different other, you know, whether it’s my book, the Alter Ego fact and and whatnot there, or entrepreneurial stuff. But I know you got a big coaching audience too, and I’m scaling up a, a coaching platform to help coaches grow and serve their their people. Because what people don’t under the hardest part about this business isn’t necessarily the marketing side, it’s actually the delivery side. Because our model is all about if you’re a coach, you are, you’re actually getting paid to help someone transform in whatever way. Whether it’s building a new skill, you know, reaching a new outcome, finishing a project or even, you know, deeper emotional transformations that might be happening. And the thing that actually grows this business is actually client success. It is not marketing like everyone thinks it is, it is client success cuz that activates referrals, retention, and testimonials. And so we’re building out a platform and we, we’ve built it out. We’ve got some, we’ve got thousands of people onto the platform. Tony Robbins company came onto it as well. And yeah, so that’s what I’m excited about right now. And that’s up coach.com.
RV (51:31):
That’s cool. So up coach and it’s, it’s basically like a, a tool for helping coaches manage all their clients and like track like the progress and
TH (51:39):
All that. And their clients can log in, you can put courses in there, you can track their habits, you can add tasks to them or manage projects. Like there’s, you can put all your worksheets right inside of it so that you’ve got visibility into them, actually whatever they’re writing instead of it being a Google doc or a PDF download as well.
RV (51:56):
Really cool. Yeah, really cool. All right, well we’ll drop you, we’ll drop you back link, we’ll drop you an SEO backlink them as well. You will have the full authority of brand builders group.com backlinking. So Todd, man, this is great. I’ve, I just, I I I’ve always just, I learned so much from talking with you and it’s always just such a sharp perspective and just really helpful man. So I appreciate you going off script here and like sharing with us. Like this is definitely an interview like no other that we’ve ever had on the show. And that’s
TH (52:29):
Well good. We zagged we zagged today. So that’s cool with
RV (52:33):
Me. Yeah, I love it, man. So everyone make sure that you go follow Todd, send him some comments, send him some love. And brother, we just, we’re, we’re grateful for you and we and we wish you the best.
TH (52:46):
Cheers man. This has been great.