Ep 337: How to Convert Your Speaking Business into Lifelong Clients with Matt Mayberry | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, all, welcome to the recap episode on my conversation with the lovely Matt Mayberry. I just love my conversations with him. He’s so humble and he’s so helpful. I thought this was a great conversation, and so I’ve broken it down to my three main takeaways and I say three, but they’re kind of like all jumbled into like one main takeaway. So here’s like this kind of like overarching theme that I got from a conversation with Matt. And I don’t know why I had this like interesting aha moment during this conversation. But I loved what he said when he said that his definition of culture is just behavior at scale. And it got me thinking that for a company, we talk a ton about culture, but for an individual, the same goes for reputation. And then I started thinking about this concept of a reputation is to an individual, what culture is to accompany, right?
AJV (02:05):
Because both of the things are, what do you want people to feel or to think when they experience you? Right? So we’ve all been a part of different customer service experiences where you’re like, man, like that was amazing. We’re like, man, how are you even business? Right? How, how do you operate like this? And you know, it’s like, I’m not gonna say that people haven’t said that about us. Like we’re not perfect, but there is a culture in the way that people treat each other treat leadership, leadership, treats, leadership, leadership treats employees, how we treat our clients that the interactions like that’s a feeling, right? Those aren’t words on a page or pictures that it’s a, it’s a feeling I I’ve walked into offices before buildings before where it’s like, you could feel the culture that was there, right. Walking into a no offense, a holiday in express versus walking into a Rosewood property has a very different feeling and culture that emanates.
AJV (03:10):
And I don’t just mean due to the element of how nice things are, but it’s, it’s a feeling, right? You get the same thing. If you’re on the phone with somebody like the energy just emanates from them, the same thing happens with you and your reputation, your personal brand, as it does with a company. The difference is as an individual, my reputation, my personal brand is about me and for a company. It’s the culture, right? What we’re trying to do is we’re trying to create this feeling. And this experience that people go through as a part of being a part of this company as a client or as a, a team member, but as a, an individual, a personal brand, we do the same thing and it has to be curated and it has to have intention. And there are countless countless books, classes, seminar coaches, consultant, speakers that could go on and on and on about how to create company culture.
AJV (04:16):
But where are the books, classes, coaches, seminars, consultant, speakers, about how to create your reputation, right? And that’s what we do at brand builders group. That’s what we’re passionate about. That’s what our uniqueness is. We lived in corporate consulting for 15 years, working with leaders about company culture and employees in retention and performance. And now we work with individuals about how do you do the same thing for yourself, which is your reputation, right? And the intentional creation of your reputation is your personal brand, right? So your personal brand is to an individual, what company culture is to an organization. And that’s how I really want you to think about this. If we go, it’s like, man, as, as, as leaders, we spend tons of time talking about culture and core values. Are we spending the same amount of time of going, what do I want to be known for who do I want to be known by?
AJV (05:22):
And then how do I become known for those things by those people that is personal branding and it needs, and it requires the same amount of focus and intention as it does to create a culture within an organization. Right? And I just, I just loved that just concept and a parallel of reputation and personal branding is to an individual is what company culture is to an organization. So it’s kind of like the broad overarching takeaway from me and that and then I, I wrote this down and I literally was like, man, that’s really important of just going your culture. Isn’t your core values, these aren’t words and definitions on a website or a flyer that you hand held a new, higher onboarding. But a culture are the daily behaviors that happen when the leader isn’t around. And so if you are a leader, right, and when I say a leader, I mean a parent, I mean a volunteer, I mean an employee, an employer, an entrepreneur, I mean anyone like what are the behaviors that need to happen on a daily basis to create the culture that you want?
AJV (06:49):
And then for an individual, what are the daily behaviors that need to happen for you to establish the reputation that you want? Have you thought about that? And if not, this is the time to do that. Like literally pause this recap right now, give yourself five minutes and go, what is the reputation I wanna have? What do I want people to think of when they think of me? And in order for that to happen, what are the three to five behaviors that I have to display on a daily basis to create that consistency. So that people associate me with what I want to be associated with and then do the same thing for your company. It’s like, what are the behaviors that need to happen with your executives, with your leaders, with your managers, with your employees in order for this culture to be curated and lived out on a daily basis, culture and reputation are the end result of daily behaviors.
AJV (08:02):
And we spend a lot of time talking about end results, and we need to talk about what are the daily behaviors that have to happen consistently to give us that end result. And then the last thing that I wrote down and I think again, just paying attention to all the things that I need to do as a leader, as an entrepreneur. But also
AJV (09:26):
So what’s your story and how are you using that to build your company culture, to build your personal reputation, to build your personal brand. What’s that story that what’s that defining story of your life that it’s like, this is a piece of what made me and here’s what I learned from it. And here’s what you, stranger friend, family member can learn from this. This is how you can apply something that I’ve learned from something that I went through and actually take it and apply it to your own life. Because here’s what I know at the end of the day. If you give me a whole bunch of words and acronyms and steps, I might retain some of it. But if you tell me a story how remember most of it. So what’s that story that makes you so unique that it sets you apart. So again, I would encourage you to pause right now, don’t put this on your to-do list.
AJV (10:25):
Don’t set a time to do it a month from now, which will never happen right now. Give yourself permission to take three to five minutes and just go, what are the stories that have shaped me? What are the stories that other people can relate to that? By sharing this piece of my story would help someone else that there’s a lesson to be learned from my employees, from my audience, from my clients, from my family. But what is this story that makes you, you y’all such a good interview. Go listen to it, take the time. Do these two quick exercises. I promise you, I took the time before doing this and I did it for myself. It makes a difference, but you’ve gotta have the intention before you actually create the plan. So take the time, create that intention and then go make the plan. We’ll see you next time.
Ep 336: How to Convert Your Speaking Business into Lifelong Clients with Matt Mayberry
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming, uh, at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey everybody, this is AJ Vaden. I am one of your co-host on the influential personal brand podcast. And I’m so excited about my guest today, because not only is he an amazing expert guest, he’s also a personal friend. And as someone who’s been helping me out a lot this year with some of my own goals, which maybe you’ll get to hear a little bit about in this interview, but before we get into it, I wanna tell you why you need to stick around and listen to this interview, right? So here are three things that you want to know that should entice you to wanna stick around and listen to what Matt Mayberry has to say. Number one, we’re gonna talk about how to use all the things that you’ve gone through in your life and how you can actually use those to help you leverage success and influence in whatever you’re doing right now.
AJV (01:45):
Now, I think this is really important because for most of us, there are things that we have gone through in our lives that we don’t actually talk about, but it’s those things that endear people to us. It’s those things that help us build trust, whether it’s with clients or employees or with friends and family. And by just simply embracing those things and sharing them, they not only help you build trust in the marketplace, but they actually help you build your business. So that’s number one. Uh, number two, you wanna stick around if you have any desire now or later in the future to write a book or write a second book, um, to speak consult, train, uh, right. For, uh, very, very well known publications. If any of those things are going, like, how’d you get into that? You wanna stick around for this interview and then last but not least if you or somebody who has gone through are going through or who inevitably will go through as serious life or, or career transition.
AJV (02:45):
And you’re wondering like, what do I do next? This is an interview that was literally curated for you. So that’s why you wanna sticker out. And we’re gonna cover all of that. I’m like 50 minutes. So it’s gonna be, be jampacked now without further. Anddo let me give you just a little bit of background on my very special guest, Mr. Matt Mayberry. So Matt is an internationally acclaimed keynote speaker. He does leadership development. He speaks on culture change, organizational performance. He’s actually been named one of the top 30 leadership thought leaders in the world. Like that’s huge, not in America in the world. His insights have been on all of the big name brands, Forbes, Fox news business, insider NBC at ESPN. Let here learn a little bit about his background with that. Um, but more than that, like he works for huge global corporations like Phillips 66, Allstate, JP Morgan chase, uh, fifth, third bank, the FBI, like even the FBI is hiring this guy. So y’all like, give it up for Mr. Matt Mayberry. I am so excited to have you, Matt. Thank you so much for being on the show today.
MM (03:58):
Hey AJ, thank you so much for having me I’m really excited for today.
AJV (04:01):
Yeah. And so here’s, so here’s what I wanna start. Cause I know that, um, many people all around the world know who you are, but there might be many people in our audience who are getting to meet you for the very first time. And I know that even in this question, I’m going to learn things about you that I did not know before this call today. So here’s where I’d like to start is just, how did you go from where you were? Right. And it’s like, I know I have the privilege of knowing that you had this opportunity to play in the NFL, right? But even prior to the NFL, you had a lot of life events leading you on a certain path and a trajectory then that got you to the NFL. Right? And I’d love for you to talk about the path to the NFL, but then you took a really stark pivot, a career change into what you’re doing now. And I’d love to know is just like, give us a little bit of your background. What got you to the NFL and then what happened there? And then tell us a little bit about what you’re doing now.
MM (05:00):
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks AJ. You know, I, I think for me, my journey to help, you know, give some context and clarity for everybody. I, I think that anytime you hear, you know, former professional athlete or even former collegiate athlete at a very high level playing division one, you know, whether that’s football or basketball, I think the first assumption is that that individual was destined from a early age that they were gonna be a professional athlete in the next LeBron James, or, you know, Brian Och or Ray Lewis. For me, that wasn’t the case. I, I, I certainly was a gifted athlete, but really starting at the age of 14 years old, I started hanging around with the wrong crowd. Um, you know, I grew up in Dar Illinois, which is a suburb of Chicago, which I live in downtown Chicago right now. But for me, my life starting really from that age on all the way up to I was, you know, really 17, 18 years old was a full blown out drug addict, two near death experiences.
MM (05:51):
My own mother, the woman that brought me into this world that I love so much has seen me do cocaine five times with her own two eyes, uh, broke my father’s ribs on multiple occasions when he would confront me about why I was coming home past curfew and, and really my best sport growing up, believe it or not was baseball. A lot of people thought that I would be drafted straight outta high school, skip college and go play in the major leagues. But I got kicked off my baseball team cuz I got caught stealing one of my teammates wallet it’s one afternoon while the rest of my team was out, you know, at practice I stayed behind because when everyone was getting dressed, I saw all this cash that was sitting in one of my teammates, wallets. And I, I stole that money cause I thought about all the drugs that I could buy and the rest is history.
MM (06:33):
I got kicked off my baseball team, uh, and, and things were really bad for me in that point in my life, uh, so much so that my high school was gonna expel me. If I didn’t go to a drug treatment facility for at least one month. And even though me or my parents or, you know, people closest to me, never thought that I would be a professional athlete, even though that people around us would always say that I had the potential to one day be that I certainly had a lot of opportunities from the high school administration because I was a gifted athlete. Uh, for example, I probably got more opportunities. Uh, second chances, third chances, fourth chances that maybe the next person wouldn’t have gotten because I did have that talent. Uh, quite frankly, they should have expelled me right then and there, you know, it, it shouldn’t have been an ultimatum where, Hey, Matt, go to this drug team facility for one month.
MM (07:22):
We’re gonna give you an opportunity to get sober and get your life in order. And maybe, maybe you’ll be able to come back to school and you still have football, right? So you can utilize that. And, and for me that was a turning point in my life because, you know, I always say that, you know, an individual can change their life. In one of two ways, they can either get inspired by some monumental event. They can get inspired by the, uh, hustle and bustle of life. They can get inspired by an audacious goal or dream that they have that’s near and dear to their heart, or they can change their life out of desperation. And for me it was desperation. Uh, this for me was really my turning point where I didn’t wanna put any more tears in my mother’s face. I, I didn’t want to experience another near death moment where my mother, father, younger brother and all my aunts and uncles and cousins were gonna be in the hospital room, thought that they were gonna lose their son, their cousin, their brother, that particular day.
MM (08:18):
And I, I remember very vividly when I went to that drug treatment facility. You know, I didn’t go to change my life, but I, I I’ll never forget the moment that changed at all. It was, I never believed any epiphanies or moments in time that could drastically alter one’s life until that moment and experience. And I came home and had the opportunity to eat dinner with my family one evening. And I has to be excused after maybe 15 minutes of sitting down at the dinner table and I went to take a shower. But the turning point for me was when I had the strength and courage for the first time, really in three years, at that point in my life to look myself directly in the mirror, I looked back and, and I, I saw just what a terrible human being. I was all the hurt that I caused and my family members, my friends, the people closest to me, my grandparents who loved me so much.
MM (09:05):
And, and for me that moment, I, I still remember it to this day. And I got goosebumps on my arms right now, talking about it, you know, for me that was the turning point that changed at all. Hmm. And I, I never believed in moments in time or epiphanies that can, that can just change it all for one person. Right. I always thought it was an accumulation of events. And for me, it was obviously there was a lot riding on that one particular moment, but it was that moment of looking myself directly in the mirror and seeing what a Demonn and terrible miserable life I was leading that really just made me go back into my room and say, okay, thi this isn’t how I wanna live the rest of my life. And I, I guess you could say from there, the rest is history.
MM (09:43):
I still had football. So I made a major goal of, I, I want to get a division one college scholarship. I want to have new friends. I wanna get rid of my drug friends. I, I quit the drug cold Turkey, continued through the drug treatment program, got faster, uh, went to college football camps. I, I think one particular summer before my, my senior year, I think I went to over 45 colleges, uh, where my father drove me all across the country, just going to their camps, meeting the different coaches. Wow. And I ended up going to Indiana, had a great career there. And then obviously I had an opportunity to play for the hometown team, the Chicago bears, uh, which I did not have the eight year, nine year NFL career that I had hoped for. And at this point it was a monumental event for me in my life because here’s the hometown kid, drug addict, overcame, you know, that period of his life, hometown, newspaper.
MM (10:37):
I mean, all my friends, family, everyone ate it up. But for me, I got hurt in a pre-season game. And what was projected was which in my eyes, I thought I was gonna have this very long fruitful career. I was gonna set my family up for success. One game, one dream, completely shattered in, in one, one moment. Uh, I was not able to come back from that injury, playing the San Diego chargers out in San Diego, California. And for me, that was my career. Um, and
AJV (11:53):
Yeah. I mean, wow. Like that’s so crazy. Like we could spend the rest of our time today, just talking about that little part of your story. Um, but there’s two things about your story that I think are really applicable to our audience that I wanna kind of like talk about is one you’re pretty open and vulnerable and transparent about all these different things in your life. And I actually, I believe that’s probably one of the things that makes you so sought after is that it’s not about all of your successes. It’s about all the things that you’ve gone through, Phil, the failures and the successes. Right. Um, that really make you so personable and relatable. And so I’m just kind of curious for you cuz I know being in this industry and honestly just being a human being, most people don’t wanna talk about all the things that didn’t go well.
AJV (12:47):
Um, because we all have them, right. I have a whole dark closet of dirty secrets that it’s not awesome to like put out there. Right. But at the same time, that really is what makes us who we are. And so I would just love to hear from you, it’s like how much of your story do you build into everything that you talk about? Why is that important to you and why do you think that helps people when they’re building their career to actually cover all the story? Not just the parts that make you look really good.
MM (13:20):
You know, that’s a fantastic question, AJ. I think for me, I had to learn the hard way. You know what I mean by that is when I did get injured in the NFL and I got asked to speak at a leadership event, you know, I, I didn’t have the really desire to do the work that I’m doing now. It wasn’t like I wrote this down on a piece of paper and said, Hey, when I’m done playing football, this is exactly what I want to do. Um, you know, for me, I got asked to speak at an event and really for the first two years of me speaking, when I knew that football wasn’t really gonna be a part of my journey moving forward, I didn’t talk about the things that I just shared. And I’ll never forget a moment where I had a mentor who knew my story kind of knew what I overcame from an early age.
MM (14:01):
And he said, why don’t you ever talk more about your struggles and all the challenges and obstacles that you had to overcome throughout the course of your life? And I said, why would I share that? Why would I share the, the, the, the darkest and deepest secrets that really only my friends and, and closest relatives knew and the, the people that were a part of that journey? Why, why, why would I talk about that stuff? And he said, watch what happens when you do mm-hmm
MM (14:45):
And I shared my whole story. And I think for the very first time at that point for two years, I was speaking, it was one of the first times I’ve ever seen really a whole entire ballroom full of tears. And afterwards I saw the transformative effect of me sharing my story and me Bo being vulnerable as a man and, and really saying, Hey, you know, our deepest and darkest secret sometime can really be the gateway of discovery and purpose and fulfillment and passion for other people in the audience. And, you know, turning point could, because from that moment, I started to really adopt that approach of sharing more of my story, sharing more of myself. And now I know that no one wants to hear my successes and my successes are relatively small to everybody else in this space. And I, I think the big thing that does separate me is my story, my DNA of how I got to where I am, because those are the characteristics that really make me who I am. And every single person that is listening to this podcast or in the audience of a speech, even if you’re not a drug addict, everyone’s gonna lose a loved one. Everyone is, you know, experiences, divorce goes through a difficulty we’ve all experienced the past three years with COVID 19. So everybody can relate to overcoming challenges and how you coped with that. So that that’s really what I took away from being vulnerable in sharing my story, AJ.
AJV (16:08):
I mean, I think that’s really, really important just to touch on again for anyone who’s listening. Um, and I just, I love what you said. It’s like, and I, I love your humility too. It’s like, actually you have pretty awesome accolades, Matt. But with that said, everyone has some sort of professional accreditation or award or something that we can talk about what we’ve done. That doesn’t really differentiate us. What really differentiates us are those unique stories that no one else has, even though they might be similar. Right? So, um, actually my best friend, my high school, best friend childhood best, friend’s been my best friend for almost 30 years, just recently got out of a 90 day, uh, rehab program. And your rehab story is very different than hers, but the point is like, it doesn’t matter what we go through. It’s like, it’s our unique take the lens in which we made it through the struggle that other people latch onto that, you know, they are like, man, it’s like, I just needed to know someone else has been there.
AJV (17:18):
I just needed to know I’m not alone and feeling this way or going through what I’m going through. And it’s like, that’s really what people need more than. Let me tell you about the, you know, MBA, CSP, CPA, all the things behind our names, cuz that doesn’t really tell a story. It doesn’t really create any sort of trust or engagement as much as man. Let me just tell you my story. Let me just tell you what I’ve been through. And so my question to you and to anyone who’s listening, what I really want you to hear is how do you decide what parts of your story to include, where to include them, how to include them. And I ask for
MM (18:35):
Another great question. I, I think, you know, and again, I had to learn the hard way when I first started, it was kind of me getting on stage. And even though I was telling maybe in an emotionally charged and powerful message, it still was really about, let me tell you about Matt Mayberry mm-hmm
MM (19:20):
So before every speaking engagement, let’s say, you know, I don’t just have two or three calls with the event, organizers. I try to have five or seven, uh, to where I’m talking to different members. I’m talking to not only the organizers that are planning that, but I want to talk to some of the attendees. I want to be able to walk in their shoes and know their challenges and kind of what they’re going through. And then I take that back and really integrate bits and pieces of that into my story. But for me, even when I’m telling my story, whether it’s overcoming the drug addiction, whether it’s getting hurt in the NFL, it’s not just me sharing you about Matt Mayberry’s journey. It’s about using that learning experience in my journey to drive home, drive home a relatable point that is really hopefully gonna be an actionable takeaway to improve their leadership or their organization or their culture or their team. So for me, that revolution probably started eight years ago, very early on when I was like, I’m just speaking about myself, even though I, I think I’m relating to people a little bit more than I was, I need to shift some things around. So for me, I, I, I think the biggest piece of advice is you have to be relentless, almost obsessive with, it’s not about you. And I know everybody says that, but you would be very, very shocked at how very few speakers actually are obsessive,
AJV (20:36):
Not shocked at all.
MM (20:37):
AJV (21:04):
I mean, I tried not to be so obvious when my mouth fell open. When you said five to seven calls, cuz it’s like, we always do a pre-event call, but I don’t think we’ve ever done five, six or seven. Like that’s extraordinary. Talk about feeling prepared and knowing the audience that you’re stepping into.
MM (21:24):
Well, it wasn’t always like that though. AJ
AJV (21:26):
MM (21:29):
Amazing. You know, for me, I think that is the, the is the consultant inside of me. And I’m sure we’ll talk a little bit about that. But I think for me, uh, the key noting at consulting kind of simultaneously feed off one another. So, but really on the keying in just the speaking side of it, if I’m just delivering a 60 minute speech, I, I think over the years, probably the past five years, the, the consultant inside of me is really cultivated where I apply that same, you know, mindset and focus to all the keynote work. So it wasn’t always like that. But within the past five years, I’ve really gotten aggressive with that.
AJV (22:02):
Yeah. Well, I would love to know just because I, we do have such a strong community of people who identify as coaches, trainers, consultants, speakers, what do you do on these five to seven calls? Like, are they all the same kind of outline with just different people or what do you do on five calls?
MM (22:19):
You know, it’s it’s so it’s it’s first, the first two to three calls will be with the event. Organizers. I want to have a very firm understanding of what the event’s for, why they’re having it, what they did last year do is this an event that they have annually? Is it quarterly? I’m really getting a basic understanding. You can do that typically in one call, but I kind of like to, you’ll be very surprised if you ask the same questions in call number two, they’re gonna give you a completely different answer almost. So I, I typically like to start there with the two calls and then from there it’s meeting with different leaders of the organization. So if I’m talking with, let’s say the CEO and CEO and CFO for one of the calls call number four, five will actually be with frontline managers who are gonna be in the audience for that particular event.
MM (23:04):
Because even though the CEO and COO maybe is telling me one thing, maybe the frontline managers have a completely different challenge that senior executives don’t even have a clue about. So for me, it’s being very and thoroughly prepared about, uh, really, really, really deeply understanding what is success to them because every pre-call is gonna entail. These are our objectives, this is why we’re having the event. But if, if you take it a step further and really push for, how do you want your audience to feel when Matt Mayberry steps off stage, what do you want them to do? And what do you want them to think about? Just those three questions is a complete game changer and really gives me a framework to kind of take back and into my preparation to really deliver a speech that is very tailored for that particular audience.
AJV (23:57):
That’s so good. And I think, you know, like the big takeaway that I just hear and what you’re saying is that you have to get to know your audience and that doesn’t matter if you’re a speaker consultant executive. It’s like if you’re, you know, an employer, right, your audience is your employees. I think that’s a really great reminder for this very interesting time
MM (24:27):
Absolutely. And I learned that very on, you know, because people do have more inspiring stories than me. Uh, there are people who have way more business experience than me. There’s plenty of people who run more successful businesses than me. So I had to realize, you know, what is my uniqueness? What is my uniqueness? And how can I exploit that, uh, in the service of others is which I heard that first from your husband, uh, RO Vaden, the great RO Vaden
AJV (25:23):
And I love that. It’s like, it doesn’t matter what you do, it’s figuring out what your uniqueness is and then leveraging that to differentiate yourself. Like, I mean, that’s the heart of like what people are looking for to begin with. It’s like, what makes you different from the speaker last year or from, you know, the consultant next year or whatever. It’s like, what’s that it factor that makes you you, right. I love that. And I actually, I think it’s so awesome that you do so many calls and you know, like what I heard in the back of my head is like, man, this is really good sales and marketing, right? It’s like, you’re building relationships with these people. You’re getting to know their culture, right. You’re just, you’re prepping up for, how can I stay integrated into this company, into this organization long after I perform a keynote on stage
MM (26:09):
And you, I mean, that’s really it, AJ. I, I, I think this now at this point in my career, I mean, that’s really a, a keynote for me if I’m doing a keynote, uh, the, the purpose of that keynote. I mean, obviously I get compensated very well for my time delivering a keynote. I love it. I love the energy. Uh, but at the end of the day, it really is that gateway to open a relationship for deeper, more ongoing work where now, I mean, some of my clients, we’re going on four years of, of wor working and partnering together. So for me, it’s not just to have a call to understand the audience it’s to truly set that relationship open, to continually add more value and maybe even over deliver than what they’re expecting.
AJV (26:50):
Absolutely. We’ve always said, uh, internally our internal moniker, uh, is that speaking is our paid prospecting.
MM (27:00):
Absolutely. Couldn’t have said it better.
AJV (27:02):
Um, it’s always been our paid prospecting. There’s very few times and the in life where you have a captive audience trapped in a room forced to listen to you for an hour. So it’s like you better over deliver. And when you do, there’s a lot of benefit that can come from it. Right.
MM (27:19):
Absolutely.
AJV (27:20):
Um, so I wanna talk, so I wanna talk a little bit about what you actually talk about just because I think this is really timely for where we are in just American work culture. Um, because you talk about leadership and culture and, you know, organizational performance. And we can, I can use all these other fancy words, but like, ultimately it’s like, I would love to hear some of the conversations that you’re having with leaders, entrepreneurs, organizations, whoever it may be around how to lead right now, or how to create culture in a virtual working environment, which a lot of companies still haven’t really figured out, or just, how do you like get optimal performance out of a whole team, not just an individual, so you can take any one of those topics and go, I like that one. Uh, but I would love for you just to speak some wisdom into, you know, what you talk about for your profession, what you love talking about. Like, give us, give us some insight what’s going on out there. Why is everything crazy?
MM (28:22):
Absolutely. You know, I think one of the things for me that I, I really talk lot about now is, is humanizing leadership. And, and what I mean by that is you would be very, very surprised and shocked if you just went, walked into an organization, let’s say you’re walking into an 18,000 person organization. And you interviewed all of the direct reports for, let’s say maybe 17 leaders on the executive team. And if you sat down with those direct reports and asked them, how many times a week, a week or month are you getting one on one frequent check-ins about not only your performance, but also how you’re feeling and development opportunities to advance your career and frequent check-ins about how you’re feeling in your wellbeing. Nine times out of 10, those direct reports are gonna relay back to you that they’re either not happening at all, or they’re happening very rarely, maybe twice a year.
MM (29:14):
So for me, it’s all about humanizing leadership. I think a lot of times our first assumption is to, I need to inspire with vision. I need to lay out this strategy. We need to focus on execution and all that stuff is very much needed. I mean, there, there’s no under minimizing that, but I think the first part is, I mean, you have to humanize leadership, you have to lead with empathy. You have to be vulnerable about what people are experiencing and going through in their personal life, as well as the professional life. And I think the more you can, you can bring that humanity in, into your one-on-one interactions with your direct reports and really, really prioritize it. Uh, even before you do your strategy or go to market route. I mean, to me, that is when you really, really start to create transformational performance, uh, in a team environment.
MM (30:01):
Uh, one of the other things I talk about as it relates to culture specifically, because that type of leadership does benefit culture. Uh, but, but really one of the big things that I do in my work is lead cultural transformation. So an organization let’s say is they went through a merger five years ago and this merger has caused some cultural friction. So they’ll bring me in to kind of not only revamp and enhance their current organizational culture, but also completely define and remodel a new culture and how that ties to the performance of what that organization does. And, and one of the very first things we do is we define their culture. And what I mean by that is, again, if you ask the employees of an organization, what is your culture here? Nine times outta 10, you’re gonna get someone to rattle off the core values.
MM (30:49):
You’re gonna say, Hey, are on the website, our mission statement set that that’s not culture, right? That that’s maybe a fabric and part of culture, but culture is really behavior at scale. It’s what everybody in their organization does when the CEO is not there it’s behavior at scale. It’s how we behave, what we believe and the experience that’s created both internally and externally. So for me, it’s, it’s really helping that organization define their culture. You know, what industry are, are they in? What is their uniqueness? Who do they serve? And, and really, what do we want our organization to consist of? Like, what do we want the core of our DNA to be all about? Because once you define that culture, then you can worry and work on the behaviors, connecting the values to behaviors, right? Because having a core value is just one piece of the puzzle.
MM (31:39):
That value has to be a daily behavior that has lived across the organization. So, so really for me, those are the two of the big things that I, I talk about AJ. Uh, and then the other would be just on the job transformation. And what I mean by that is there’s so many books and articles written about leadership, let’s say, but when you look under the hood of an organization, particularly larger organizations, you’re gonna find that all of their leadership development training, everything that they do, as it relates to enhancing the performance of their managers and leaders is not related to on the job performance. Mm-hmm,
AJV (32:38):
My gosh. I could go on so many tangents right now. Um, I’m gonna try to like brain myself in, cuz I, I could really go on a very long tangent, so, okay. I had three ahas, like three, like little epiphanies as you were talking. Um, and one of the things that I think is really important for anyone who’s listening in, to me, it doesn’t matter if you’re the CEO of a fortune 500 company or you’re a small business owner with five employees, or you’re a solo entrepreneur. Like there are elements of this that pertains to you, no matter what, or if you’re an employee stayat home mom or anything, it’s like, we all lead something. We just don’t treat it that way. But there’s something that you said about this on the job training and performance that I’ve noticed this trend in, uh, just haphazardly over the last 10 years is, you know, I left corporate consulting four years ago or it left me, I don’t know. Um, but separated from that four years ago and we started brain builders group. And one of the things that I had realized, and I’m just curious how much of this that you see is that it’s being outsourced to virtual learning and video trainings and tutorials and this whole concept of the metaverse and VR and all this stuff that removes every piece of a human element and pretty much every piece of on the job training from it.
MM (34:04):
Right. So
AJV (34:06):
I would love to hear your take on that.
MM (34:08):
You know, you’re, you’re absolutely right. And I think that the organizations that rely solely on outsourcing it are the ones that, you know, either will be distinct in 10, 20 years, or they’re gonna go through massive restructuring or their performance is gonna negatively be impacted dramatically in the market, uh, compared to the organizations that they do, classroom learning, they utilize zoom, they do, you know, AI, they, they have all of that that is coupled with on the job performance. And, and I think that that is the big indicator of, of really impacting and transforming the actual business performance, because that’s what we’re all in business for. I mean, unless you’re running a nonprofit, you have to be profitable. You gotta grow that profit every single year. And quite frankly, if you’re a publicly traded company, you have to also have the right perception on wall street.
MM (34:59):
And, and I, the way to do that is you have to really impact on the job. It goes back to football. You know, you don’t train to be a better football team by just watching film. You have to go to practice every single day. You have to take what you learned in the game, you know, in the film room. And then you have to apply that on the practice field, you have coaches that tell you don’t step left here. You need to make this right adjustment and go this way. And, and the same applies to leadership, same applies to business and you are right. I think one of the big misconceptions the past, you know, I would say five, 10 years has been, you know, we can spend our time better elsewhere. And my, all of my job is spent with leaders and, and executives convincing them that no training on the job needs to be your number one priority.
AJV (35:47):
Yeah. I love that so much. And I just, I know that that’s been like a huge increase that we’ve doubled down on this year with our team. And one of the things that I had found is it’s like the more virtual you go, the more distracted you can become, because there’s just so many different things buying for your attention. And one of the things that we have done over the last six months is for our, you know, community director who trains, all of our strategists is we’ve stripped away every single task off of her plate, other than being with our team. Like, that’s your job. It’s like, if it’s not that it needs to go. It’s like, you know, what we used to say is like, whether you spend time with paper or you spend time with people and your job is to spend time with people and this.
MM (36:31):
Yeah. But you guys did a very key thing there. And I love, I love that. I love that so much. AJ is you said, you know, we, we took all the things off of her plate. You know, she had to focus on that one priority and that’s, that’s the number one thing that most organizations do, uh, that, that really inhibits their performance and really declines the, you know, the growth that they’re looking for, because they’ll tell their managers and their leaders that we want you to be in the market, coaching your people more, but we’re just gonna continually dump all of these priorities and all these things on your lap and say, they have to be done by next month.
AJV (37:03):
MM (37:08):
Was us. It’s a lot. It’s it’s everybody. But you also learned from that and, and course corrected, which I think is very, very important.
AJV (37:15):
Yeah. Well, you know, to, I think, uh, the lessons in life, it was the hard way
AJV (38:12):
And he was talking about, you know, Kobe’s, uh, work ethic and discipline. And although Kobe was clearly very naturally talented, he just outworked everyone else with his workout routines. And he would start, he would do three workouts a day when others were doing one or two and he would go in at 4:00 AM. And as he was leaving, you know, the other teammates were coming in at 6:00 AM and he was already done with his first workout. And it was just that discipline of repetition creates excellence. Um, but it’s that consistency part. And it, and to me, that is just no matter what. And it’s like, you are a fairly new parent
MM (38:54):
Noah, fairly new and married. I was no, not, not, not yet.
AJV (38:59):
Okay.
MM (39:57):
Right. You know, I, I couldn’t agree more with you. I think that it goes back to the, kind of the, the old adage of, you know, everyone wants to achieve the dream without doing the work. And I think that at the, you know, for me, like every single year from my, my friend mutual friend that we have John Gordon, uh, you know, he wrote the book, the one, you know, one word and, and this year, my one word is process. And I think at the end of the day, I, I think one of the things that I’ve been so benefited by being an athlete for most of my life is, you know, going to the practice, just doing the daily work, going through the grind and, and understanding that it’s not even about the wins and losses. It’s about every day showing up and improving at your craft, whatever it is, you do getting a little bit better for that particular day.
MM (40:40):
And there’s two types of people. The, those that will think that that is cliche and yeah, you know, there’s, there’s a way around it. There’s a way around it. While the others, as you mentioned, Kobe Bryant, they’re doing the work and every single day, it’s about the process. It’s not even about wins or losses or increase in profit. That’s a goal. And that’s something we want to do. But at the end of the day, it’s all reverse engineering that to the present moment. And how can we maximize the process, the journey, which quite frankly, at the end of our lives is really what’s gonna matter most.
AJV (41:12):
Yeah. I love that. And I just think that’s so universal and you just really can’t hear that message enough. It may be said a million times. And for most of us humans, we need to hear it a million times more. You just can’t hear it enough. It’s like consistency matters doing the work matters, taking shortcuts do not help you in the long run. They really suck. Um, okay. So I’m watching the clock. I’ve got two more quick things for you. And I love this conversation so much, um, culture, you said it’s like culture is just behavior at scale. And I think that’s so good. And that’s so fascinating. And so, um, two things on this. So one for anyone who’s listening without doing like a formal assessment or, you know, hiring someone like yourself, it’s like, are there any quick tips that you could give to somebody that could just take a look around? And I’m gonna say the culture of your company, the culture of your household, but it’s like, how can you see, how can you recognize the culture that is all around you that often has been created accidentally or UN unintentionally. So how do you observe culture in the way that you described it as behavior at scale?
MM (42:27):
You know, that, that’s a very interesting question. And I think culture in and of itself is very fascinating. And I think one of the reasons why is because, you know, culture, you, you can’t see it, but you can certainly feel it when you walk into an organization.
MM (43:24):
And then it’s also putting a behavior next to that value. That’s what a lot of organizations don’t do the very first piece to actually building a great culture and identifying, are you living up to this? Well, you can’t just have the, the word trust on your website or say that trust is the core tentative of who you are and what you do. There has to be an actual daily behavior next to that. What does trust look like in your organization or your company? What does it look like? Like very simply clarify that make a concise statement, a daily behavior that is actionable, that is related to that value. And every single month, simply it could be done survey based. It could be done, uh, an accountability, which I use scorecards where a lot of the organizations I work with the senior level executives, there’s a scorecard that’s distributed to their direct reports on asking them, is this value, is this behavior currently being lived on a monthly basis?
MM (44:20):
And then we get those results back. And it’s very fun from there because there’s some leaders that don’t like, what, what we received back from the direct reports. But I think one of the things that you can do regardless of where you are, is, are, is that being lived mm. Is that being lived and it could be even be your personal life. You know, if you have a, a value or you have a core characteristic of, of who you make, what makes you, you is that constantly being cultivated and lived. And every Sunday evening, before you start a new work week, you know, is, is this being lived in everything that I do?
AJV (44:56):
Hmm. That’s so good. You know, I’m,
AJV (45:50):
Right. And it’s like, you can feel it. Like I was actually, um, we have this family Bible study that we’ve committed to this year. Um, and we meet every Sunday for four hours and it’s a family Bible study. Yeah. It’s a commitment. Um, but it’s awesome. And we’re reading through the Bible together. And one of the conversations that we had just two days ago is how there are parts of the country just talking about the United States that you can feel the culture, right. It’s like, they’re, you know, it’s like, you know, Southern California has a feel to it. Absolutely. New York has a feel to it. The south has a feel to it. Um, and it’s like, I liken company culture to personal reputation. It’s like, how do people feel in your presence versus how do you want them to feel in your presence?
MM (46:43):
Absolutely. And another thing I think, as relates to, you know, culture real quick, AJ, cuz it also kind of revolves around personal reputation and, and also the work that you guys do at brand builders group is, uh, being very clear on expectations. I, I think from both a as an influencer author speaker perspective consultant, you know, stating the services and the value that you provide is very different than constantly going to your clients and your customers and your partners and asking, are you consistently, are, are these expectations being delivered? Mm-hmm
MM (47:35):
And I think on the reverse for leaders and managers, one of the, one of the most awesome exercises that I have them do, and this is, this is a complete game changer because in healthy cultures and very positive and thriving organizational cultures managers with their direct reports, there’s very clear expectations, but most organizations you walk into, even if an employee’s been on the job for 20 years, 20 years, I see it all the time. And you ask them, Hey, in your role, your particular role where you are right now, where you’ve been for the last eight years, can you tell me that top eight biggest priorities day to day mm-hmm
AJV (48:51):
That’s so good. Um, and I think if you’re not taking this as your own takeaway, you should take it. It’s like, you should do these own exercises for yourself if you’re listening. Right. And it’s like, I like literally have like a page to do items of like, you’re this little direct reports, right. I’m going, are we on the same page? Right. Because that starts to emanate in every single thing that you do within the company and then in your client relationships. Right. So, um, okay. I know we only have like three minutes. So before we wrap up, I just wanna make sure everyone, um, knows where to go if they wanna connect with you. And so if you wanna connect with Matt, the central place to connect with Matt Mayberry is to simply go to his website, which is Matt Mayberry, online.com. So Matt Mayberry, online.com. You can learn about consulting speaking. Um, he’s got an upcoming book. You definitely wanna learn about that. You can follow him on different, uh, social media platforms that Matt Mayberry online.com. So with the last couple of minutes, um, I just wanna do two quick things. Um, and then we’ll wrap this up. So one, give everyone just a 62nd preview of your second book that you’re finalizing the menu script on. So when’s it coming out? What’s it about?
MM (50:08):
Yeah. So it’ll be out February 1st, 2023. And it is called culture is the way how leaders at every level can build an organization for speed impact and excellence. I’m, I’m very excited for that book. Uh, it really dives into some huge misconceptions, a little, some of the stuff that we talked about here today, but it goes even a little bit deeper. Uh there’s case studies in that book of some of the clients that I partnered with over the years of, of taking them through actual real life, cultural transformations, the results, and also laying out a, a strategy and, and really framework that leaders and managers, regardless of your industry and your organization, how you can implement that into build a world class culture that truly as AJ talked about, feels amazing, which will help you attract top talent, but also drive significant results in the marketplace.
AJV (51:01):
Mm. I love it. So culture is the way, love that title. So coming out, um, to an online store near you,
MM (51:34):
My favorite sport is football.
AJV (51:36):
Okay. What’s your favorite team?
MM (51:37):
My favorite team is unfortunately the Chicago bears
AJV (51:42):
Fortunate or unfortunate depending on where you live.
MM (51:48):
Ooh, that’s a tough one. Uh, my favorite book, uh, I will have to go off of one that I just recently read, uh, that I really, really enjoyed becoming super natural by Joe Spencer.
AJV (52:00):
Oh, very good. Becoming supernatural. Okay. Love that. Um, then you put the arts. What do you mean by the arts
MM (52:07):
Just different, you know, I’m a very creative person, believe it or not, because most people don’t take former athletes. Uh, macho men is very creative, but for me, it’s just, I, I love paintings. I, I love going to art galleries. I love, uh, you know, everything about the creation process, uh, you know, going to watch comedians going to, uh, you know, just watch the mechanics of musicians for me. It’s just, I’m, I’m a huge fan of creative in the arts and, and really bringing all that creativity and innovation. And really, for me, it’s all about the energy into my own life.
AJV (52:41):
I love that. All right. Last one. I know that you’re relatively newly married in the last couple of years, so I’m gonna still say that you’re a newlywed, what’s one lesson that you have learned about yourself from being married.
MM (52:56):
She is always right.
AJV (53:24):
Ah, I love that, Matt. I love talking to you. I love learning from you. Thank you so much for being on the show and thank all of you guys for listening. Stay tuned. Uh, next time for another episode on the influential personal brand. We’ll see you later.
MM (53:40):
Thank you, AJ.
Ep 335: Reinventing Yourself for the Next Big Thing with Former NFL Player Clay Harbor | Recap Episode
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody, this is AJ Vaden here, and welcome to my recap episode on my conversation with former, former NFL player Clay Harbor. I don’t know why that’s such a tongue twister for me, former NFL player, Clay Harbor. And this is a, I would say an inspirational, motivational episode, but also with some tactical details about how to launch and grow your personal brand if you are thinking about starting or growing your coaching, consulting, speaking business. Definitely worth a full listen. But here is my take on this episode and some of the big things that I walked away with from this and my, my view on this, and I think this is a, a really important conversation to have, is how is comparison holding you back? And on the interview, Clay talks a lot about showing up and the difference between 80%, a hundred percent, 0% and the importance of not just showing up but showing up consistently.
AJV (01:07):
And then it got me thinking about my own life and lives of people I know and how much that comparison is the reason that we don’t show up. And most often the reason that we don’t show up consistently. And so here’s my question for you today, if you’re listening to this video, is what are you comparing yourself to or who are you comparing yourself to that you need to let go? And I don’t care who you are, what you do, there is something or someone that you compare yourself to that at some point in your life will make you feel not good enough, not worthy enough, not smart enough, not successful enough not doing enough, not helping enough, not making enough whatever it is, fill in the blank, not enough. And that’s what comparison does. Comparison makes you feel not enough.
AJV (02:08):
And that’s the problem with comparison is so often as individuals specifically individuals who are trying to do something bigger than what we’re currently doing is we get stopped by looking around and comparing our step one to someone else, their step 1000. And we just don’t know what their step is. And I just, I know when we started Brand Builders Group just four and a half years ago, it was really easy to go, Oh my gosh, here we are starting a personal brand strategy firm. And our personal brands had recently been scratched and completely, we were completely starting over. So neither my husband, Roy Va in our eye had any social media followers. We, we had lost our podcast. We hadn’t even started a new one. We hadn’t even created a website for Brand Builders Group when we started.
AJV (03:06):
And there was a lot of opportunity for us to go, We can’t do this because of this, this, this, and this. Like, what are people gonna think if we’re a personal brand strategy firm and we don’t even have a podcast launch, we have no social media followers, we don’t even have a website for goodness sake. What will people think? And I know that in many times in our life and in my life specifically, that would’ve stopped me. It would’ve held me back and said, Well, here’s one excuse of why I’m not ready. And here’s another excuse of why I don’t have time and here’s another excuse of how I can’t afford it. And here’s another excuse of, well, what are people gonna think? I could go on and on and on. The point is, is they all had to do with comparison. Cuz the truth is we did launch Brain Builders group with no website and with no social media followings and with their podcast. And we were just fine. We were just fine. And that had a lot to do with doing it in spite of what we thought other people would think. It was doing it in spite of,
AJV (04:51):
Sorry, you’re gonna have to cut this part together where we fell downstairs. He’s okay. But we had to do this in spite of what we thought other people were gonna think. Because here’s the truth, we could have launched with all of those things and people were still gonna have opinions, good or bad. So we could launch without all of those things. And people were still gonna have thoughts, good or bad. So why not just do it? Cuz the truth is comparison most often just hurts us. There’s always gonna, people who love you and love what you do, gonna and love what you do. There’s always gonna be people who don’t love you and who don’t love what you do. That cannot be what holds you back because that only hurts you, comparison hurts you. It’s an internal thing that we suffer with and we’re the only ones who actually have negative effects from how we compare ourselves to.
AJV (05:43):
And it, it’s really easy in a world today to get caught up with, well what does this person have and what do they look like and what are they wearing and what are they doing? And how many followers do they have? And what, how many likes do they have? And how many downloads and how much do they make? And sometimes we just need to stop looking around and put on some blinders and go. Everybody is on their own path. Everyone is on their own journey. And truly as an outsider looking in, we get a very surface level perspective of what every single person is going through. Cuz at the end of the day, we all know that every single person on planet Earth has a struggle. They have problems, they have issues. They have their own insecurities. They suffer with their own level of comparison.
AJV (06:27):
And we don’t get that picture. We don’t get to see all of the struggles and the hurdles and the obstacles that happened you know, years before or days before. We don’t get to see the behind the scenes that would eliminate the level of comparison and the significance that that has in our own decision making. And so if we stop looking around and we just put our heads down and and focus on what are we called to do and what do I feel like my mission is? And you know, for me it’s like, what is the calling that God has on my life and how can I serve people? And I think that’s the biggest thing is like when we’re focused on showing up for other people, comparison starts to go away. When comparison creeps in is when I’m worried about me, myself, and I, but when I’m worried about who I’m serving and I’m worried about my clients and I’m worried about my family and I’m worried about my friends and I’m worried about causes that I believe in when I’m worried about the people that I know are suffering, it’s like my comparison goes away cuz it’s not about me.
AJV (07:26):
It’s not supposed to be about us. And when you focus on serving and you actually focus on like, I think I could help somebody I I know I could help somebody. And even if it’s one person, it’s like, focus on that person. And those feelings of comparison start to go away. And it doesn’t really matter if you have a nice website or hundreds of thousands of followers or a bestselling book or you know, a notable podcast. And those don’t get me wrong, those things are great and I think you help a lot of people and you get more reach. So don’t get me wrong here, but when you focus on the one, when you focus on serving who’s right in front of you, the neighbor next door the kid down the street, your colleague, your coworker, that client who really needs you, comparison just diminishes.
AJV (08:12):
It just starts to go away. But you gotta show up. And you gotta do it consistently because comparison will creep back in the moment that you stop focusing on the people around you, the people that you were called to serve. And so I do encourage you to go listen to this whole podcast cuz it is about showing up and doing it consistently and not making it about you. And I think that’s where we get to shine the most is when it’s not about us. When it’s about the audience and the people that we can help and that we can serve. And the benefit for us, in addition to doing good works is that feeling of comparison goes away. And what it’s filled with is satisfaction of knowing. It’s like I have purpose. I can do things for people who need help. And it gives you a newfound level of purpose and passion and mission that maybe didn’t exist the minute before you did it. So focus on serving, it, eliminates comparison. Show up, do it consistently and go check out this whole podcast. I’ll check you, I’ll check you next time on the Influential Personal Brand. See you later.
Ep 334: Reinventing Yourself for the Next Big Thing with Former NFL Player Clay Harbor
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden here. And I have a friend on the show today with me, clay Harbor. You guys are in for such a treat. I’m about to give you guys a my version of his bio, my version of what you should know about clay, but let me tell you first why you need to stick around for this episode. So if you have ever gone through some sort of what I’m gonna call a change in identity, right? You could call it an identity crisis. I don’t think that’s what clay went through, but it’s a change of identity, right? So this is the show for you to talk about how do you take, you know, a large portion of your life that was leading up to this moment, and then how do you take all of that transition?
AJV (01:42):
What you’re doing, reinvent yourself, reimagine who you are, and then kind of like re-engage back into the marketplace. That is what clay is doing. That’s what he’s been doing. That’s what so many of us do at some point in our lives, both personally and professionally. So if you have ever found yourself in a pivot point situation of like, this is what I was doing up to this point now, what am I gonna do moving forward? This is an episode that you wanna stick around to also, I would say, if you wanna know how to grow maximum exposure and your online platform, by doing unique things that are out of the ordinary, this is also a show that you wanna stick around and stay tuned for. Cuz we’re gonna talk a little bit about that as well. So now let me introduce you to my friend, clay Harbor.
AJV (02:32):
Here’s some things that I think are fascinating, that you would wanna know is one at clay as a nine year NFL veteran, like nine years is a long time in NFL and my opinion but you were also a college hall of Famer at Missouri state, right? So pre pre NFL you are a nationally sought off speaker. You are a personal trainer, you’re a coach. You have so many cool things in your resume. But one of the things that I think is really fun and just unique are some of the things that you don’t have in your resume. Like I’m surprised that you don’t have in here that you also, you had a stint on the bachelorette like that’s how that did make it in here. I think that’s really interesting. I think also the things that are in here that really are so awesome about you is that you are so humble.
AJV (03:23):
Like you are so humble. You do not talk about all these amazing accomplishments. You do not talk about all these awards you’ve been featured in all major sports media. You’ve done brand deals for anything from bud light to American airlines. And those are not things that you ever talk about, right? Those are some of the things that people will hold at the pinnacle of their career and you don’t even mention them.
CH (04:12):
Wow. One introduction. I appreciate you having me, AJ. And you, I just appreciate the opportunity to talk to your audience here and, you know, have a conversation with you. And I appreciate everything that you and Rory do and have done to help me really figure out exactly what it is I want to do and to structure that. And I think that’s a good lead in to his conversation is, is, is structure because when people ask me, how do I go from, you know, playing in the NFL for being in college, you know, just working towards this goal my whole life and just identifying as NFL player. Okay, your career’s over. I have a couple injuries now, what, you know, for me it’s what do I wanna do now? And that’s a question that I had for a long time, and I didn’t really know exactly where I wanted to go and just figuring out old, old school way of writing down the things that you enjoy doing and going to brand builders.
CH (05:07):
And the first thing they have is go, what are you an expert in? What do you enjoy doing? You know, what do people come to you for? What kind of advice do people coming for, come to you for? And having all these questions really helped me to figure out where I wanted to go with my brand after the NFL. And for, for that, for me, it had a lot to do with, you know, habits and routines and, and, and things of that nature. So that was big for me. And that’s what I wanted to really chase.
AJV (05:34):
Mm. I love that. And that didn’t start in the NFL. Like that started way before the NFL for you. Like that’s how you got to the NFL. So one of the things that I would love for people to get to know about you is like, what do you think that it takes to create the extraordinary results that you’ve achieved in and outside of professional athletics, but, you know, super specifically like making it to the NFL is a really small amount of people, right? That’s, that’s extraordinary talent, but more importantly, it’s extraordinary discipline and habits that are gonna both serve anyone really well during their professional sports time, but then also way after. And so I, I think it would be really cool for you to tell people, like, how did you get to the NFL?
CH (06:23):
It’s funny that you you, you already brought it up in my opinion is is habits to me when I look back at everything I did and, and how I was able to succeed. Cause you go back to college. Obviously I have a natural ability. I start to realize in college early on, but it’s not much different than a lot of the other guys I’ve seen. And people have asked me this, you know, there’s a lot of guys out there that can run and jump and play football. What made you go from the same level that these guys for you to keep improving and to keep moving and improving, to, to get to the point where you’re in this smaller college, Missouri state university, haven’t had a draft pick in 20 years from Missouri state university draft in 20 years before I got drafted there hadn’t been one draft pick and I got drafted in the fourth round, the Philadelphia Eagles.
CH (07:08):
And that itself was a huge accomplishment for everybody in the, in the area. Wow. How this guy from Missouri state do this? And I’ll tell you, AJ, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s simple but not easy. And that is you have to have habits. You have to have discipline and you have to have a routine for me. The thing that really kept me on track was having a knock out routine from the time I woke up to, I would look at my day and say, how can I fit in all these things I need to fit in? I gotta make sure that I’m eating healthy. I gotta make sure that I get this workout in. I gotta make sure I work on catching the football. I gotta make sure I work in on blocking and that can work in any sort of environment that you’re in and any job you’re in you, you improve, you get 1% better every day.
CH (07:53):
And then by the end of the year, you’re 37% better than you were at that the beginning of the year. So for me, it was getting 1% better every day, always changing my routine to be as effective as I could. And I just kept getting better as a freshman. I got better as a sophomore, better as a junior. And I got to this point where I was a really good football player in college. And then you get drafted and go to the NFL and you you’re back to the bottom of the total pole again.
CH (08:28):
And I do the same thing. I go through my routine and I fix it and I make it the best I can you go through these position battles, highly competitive environment, but you just gotta focus on yourself. That’s why I made sure to do. I focused on myself. I focused on my routine and I made sure I was disciplined. I wasn’t the most talented guy, but I was a guy that had put in the most time and could fit the most things in my day because I had that routine. And that’s how I improved and players that were better than me. That only lasted 2, 3, 4, 5 seasons. I was able to last night, I was able to take care of my body and, and be able to put myself in position to where I could take care of my family and, and things I’ve always wanted to do coming from an underprivileged background. It was always in the back of my mind to be able to take care of the people that were, you know, important to me. And that’s what I did. It was all about habits, routine and discipline.
AJV (09:18):
Wow. You know, you said something that really stuck out to me. I one, I love all of that and I think it’s so true. It’s like talent can only get you so far. Right? It’s like, you’re gonna have all the talent in the world, but if you’re not gonna apply that in a focus direction, it there’s a limit to that. Right. but you said something, you said, I focused on myself. So whether or not you meant this or not, this is what I heard. It’s like, yeah. I wasn’t comparing myself to other people. I was focused on what I was doing, not what other people were doing. So can you talk a little bit more about, you know, both in and out of football, like the power of just like, you know, putting blinders on, right. It’s like stay focused on keeping the main thing, the main thing, and that is not what everyone else is doing. It’s what you’re doing.
CH (10:01):
Absolutely. The most important person you can compete against is yourself. You’ll look on online. Or for me, I see some of these speakers, these guys, these athletes that I’ve had better careers in. And I see their, you know, they’re getting booked at maybe this gig, this gig. And I go, I have a better story. I’m a better speaker. You can’t focus on that. You gotta focus on yourself. How am I gonna improve myself every day? There’s the same thing in football. I look at these tight ends. These other tight ends, when I’m drafted, I say, I can do everything they can do. Why am I not getting this opportunity? Then I just focus on myself. And then that shows you put the time in and you keep working. You keep repeating things over and over again. You have a good habit. You have good routines, you have discipline.
CH (10:40):
That’s gonna show. If you keep showing up day in and day out, you start to stack these days. And that’s when you improve. You’re not gonna improve in football. You’re not gonna go from a rookie to a pro bowler. You know, it’s gonna take you a little bit of time. Maybe sometimes, you know, guys will get lucky with a big catch or a big play, or, you know, in the speaking world or the business world, you’ll come up with just one big idea, but that’s not common. You know, what’s common is you’re putting in the hard work day in and day out. You’re improving a little bit every day, a little bit every day. And then you look up six months later. Wow. I’ve I was back there, you know, six months you look back, I was a guy that was barely making the team.
CH (11:19):
Now I’m a starter. And that’s when you keep going and you keep going. And the next thing you know, like my, my college career, wasn’t playing at all as a freshman, barely got in the field, improve, improve. Wow, I’m on the field. Now, as later, later in my freshman year, I’m playing sophomore year. Next thing you know, I’m an all American. And I look back at, at everything that I did to get here. And that was just a day in and day out. It didn’t happen in one day mm-hmm
CH (11:59):
You gotta consistently show up just like my time as a fitness coach, you know, I’m a certified personal trainer. I’m a certified as strength conditioning coach. You are not gonna see results in a week. When you keep showing up. My mom has lost 50 pounds in the last three months. Wow. Cause I finally got her on a routine in a program. She walks a mile every single day. I explained to her, your diet, your walking, your activity level, everything comes together. Now. She feels so much better. She’s able to walk and play with the grandkids. She’s able to travel with me when I go see my brother and all these things. But she, she took a day, a day, a day, a day. It’s you’re not gonna wake up and it’s not gonna happen. That’s why I try to explain to people is it’s the day to day, every day routine,
AJV (12:40):
You know, it’s the exact same thing with building a personal brand establishing yourself in the marketplace, building a business. It’s like, none of this happens overnight or in a, a week or a month or in a year for most cases. This is, you know, it’s what they say. It’s like anything worth doing takes time. Yeah. Right. It takes time. And it’s that discipline and consistency of showing up that I think that’s huge. You gotta show up,
CH (13:03):
Showing up is the number one thing. You go back to me and my fir my personal fitness brand. And when I’m, when I’m doing that, here’s what I tell people. If you, if you can only go to the weight room for an hour, go for that hour. It’s like in, in school, if somebody fails or somebody’s not getting the grades they want, it’s because of the missed assignments. If you get a 0% and then you get a hundred percent, you’re still only at 50%. Okay? So now you go back and you get a 60%. That’s not good. I mean, you still might be failing that day or, you know, you’re barely passing, but that 60%, and then you come back and you have a really good day. You get that a hundred percent. Now you’re an 80, you know, you go from a 50 to an 80 just by getting, just by showing up in the weight room.
CH (13:42):
When you miss the days, when you have the days where you don’t do it, where you’re not focused, you’re not gonna do any work. Those are the days that sets you back. If you can just sit down and do some work, you keep moving forward. Cuz every day improves. You improves you when you stay still and don’t do anything. That’s when you go back down and when you, when you start to, you know, you start to fail and whatever your business is, whatever your enterprise is, it’s your health, your fitness. If it’s your speaking business, you gotta keep moving forward. And you don’t miss days. That’s if you just show up every day, the discipline have that routine, you show up. That’s when you start to see the improvements,
AJV (14:16):
Oh man, we get in this podcast right now. That is so good. That is so much truth because it, it is like, it’s like you can apply that to your finances, your health, your marriage, your relationships your, your platform. It’s like, you know, I think about, as you were talking, we have a, a good friend of ours who is recently named one of like the sales influencers of the year on LinkedIn and oh wow. It was a really simple formula. He posted a content video on sales every single week for about 18 months.
CH (14:49):
Yeah,
AJV (14:50):
It was. I mean his content, clearly it got better. His skills get better, but it wasn’t like, it was that different. Yeah. It got better, but it wasn’t different. Yeah. It was consistency. He showed, showed up. He gave value and the more he did it, the better he got, but it was, he showed up and he goes, I’m committed every Wednesday. I’m gonna do this video. I’m gonna post it. If it helps one person it’s enough for me. Yeah. And then it was helping 10 and then a hundred and then a thousand and then a hundred thousand. Right. But it was consistency. I think the challenge is how many of us want it right now? Yeah. It’s instant gratification. We don’t wanna wait. We don’t wanna put in the work. It’s like, we want it now. And we want it. All of it right now.
CH (15:30):
Yeah. You got, you gotta be consistent. You wanna grow following on social media, your platform, it’s consistency. It’s consistently posting and doing things like that. What I always say is people is sometimes it’s better. I know some, the people tell me, well, I don’t know when the right time to do it is when should I start? And I always tell ’em this. I go a great plan. A good plan today is better than a great plan tomorrow. Mm-Hmm
AJV (16:00):
Yeah.
CH (16:00):
You’re gonna, you’re gonna get some pretty good and you’re gonna keep getting better and that’s gonna exponentially improve you. If you’re trying to work on social media, you don’t know exactly. You don’t have the perfect aesthetic. Hey, start, start right now. Start posting. You’re gonna keep getting better and that’s gonna help you to improve in your business and your speaking business. You know, it’s, for me, it was like, I don’t know if I’m ready to do these, to do these events. Oh, Hey, I’m ready enough. And I’m going to learn and keep getting better. A good plan today is better than a great plan tomorrow. So you start doing it and then you see yourself improving, you see yourself feeling more comfortable, then you’re, then you’re ready to go. Everything’s firing. You can set up your routine, you know what to expect. And that’s another thing that gets you going, you gotta get started and you gotta stay consistent.
AJV (16:43):
Ah, so good. I love one of our good speaker friends. Eric Chester always tells us and reminds us, he says the difference between a good speech and a great speech is a thousand speeches. Yeah. That right. It’s doing it. Yeah. It’s just doing it right. It’s showing up. It’s being consistent. It’s putting in the work. So, okay. So I wanna talk about, I’m gonna change, you know, change chords just a little bit. And I wanna talk about kind of this, this pivot moment that you went through, not all that long ago when your NFL career ended and now you’ve got post NFL life of all right. Now, what am I gonna do? So can you take us back to that? And because I think a lot of people in our audience are struggling in one of those pivot moments of, you know, they’re in a full-time corporate job and they’re trying to pivot too.
AJV (17:34):
It’s like, I wanna go out and do my own thing or I wanna start my own business or maybe they have their own business and they’re looking at evolving it or selling it or starting something new, or maybe they’ve sold their business. And they’re like, you know, what does chapter two look like for me? And what do I want to be known for? And, and I can just personally say, like, I went through this in 2018 of when we had our separation from our former company. And yeah, I was known for 15 years. As a sales consultant, I was really good at it and was making a lot of money at it. Yeah. But I looked up one day and I was like, I don’t wanna be known for somebody who helps companies increase their top line and bottom line. Yeah. Like I don’t, I don’t wanna look 15 years from now and go, that was my legacy.
AJV (18:19):
That’s how people think of when they think of me as they think of me as a sales consultant, I don’t wanna be known for that. And so it was a, an intentional shaping of how do I, how do I even wanna be known in the marketplace? And it’s a, and I think anyone who’s going through a major transitionary time has gotta look themselves and I, and go what what’s next? And who am I? Right. Who am I? I’m not this. Who am I, so can you gotta walk us through, like, what was that journey like? And how did you kind of get to where you are today?
CH (18:49):
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a very good question. And that’s, that’s something that I like helping people with. It’s a journey that was difficult. And for me, it’s a journey I’m still going through. I think every day, it’s, you know, it’s something that you, you, you gotta figure out for yourself is, you know, am I happy where I’m at and what I’m doing and, and is this the path that I wanna be on? And I, I’m happy that I’ve finally figured out exactly what I want to do. And I want to thank you, firstly, and Rory for helping me a lot with that with brand builders, but I’ll go back to 2018, you know, NFL, I think I’m still playing. It’s a little different for me because I wasn’t ready to get to end. I’ve played this long career and I wanna keep going. And I get injured during a workout, which I would’ve got signed with a, with a team, the Buffalo bills, I’m on the field.
CH (19:33):
I’m working out. If I’m healthy in shape, they’re gonna sign me. I’m running a route. I’ve ran a million times. I run the route I plant, I cut. I end up tearing my groin. So now that’s tough. I go to the doctor, I see ’em out for six, six months almost with this groin tear. And you know, I missed the whole season. And now it’s a question thing for me. Do I want to continue working to get back to the NFL or do I want to move on to something else? And for me, icontinue to try to try to go back to the NFL. I got some calls that didn’t really go for me. So then I try to figure out what I want to do next. And going through figuring that out. I’ve, I’ve went through the fitness stuff. I love fitness, but what I really decided is what do I, I want to help people and I can help people with their health and wellness.
CH (20:21):
And I still do that and I can help people with their story. And I think that I have a story that really could move people. And that’s what made me decide what I wanted to do for other people. It’s gotta be a passion when I’m on stage. And when I’m speaking, I’m speaking to kids, I spoke to a lot of football teams, obviously being in that, in that space and a lot of high schools, colleges, and just speaking to them and telling them how I did what I did, how I got from here to there. And then underprivileged kids coming from an underprivileged family to become, you know, what I’ve become. And my brother who didn’t play in the NFL and he was able to do the same thing and our parents never graduated high school. My brother’s got three master’s degree and he’s working on the doctorate.
CH (21:02):
You know, he was the assistant director of, of the assistant director of academics for university of Colorado for five years. And now he moved on to start his own high school as a principal. And he just passed his superintendent exam. Now he’s gonna be a superintendent of a big of a big high school. And our parents didn’t graduate. Didn’t graduate high school. So using those steps and me and him uses the same strategies I used. We work on a daily routine. We have positive habits, he’s got three kids, a wife, and he’s still studying to do his doctorate. And the guy works out six days a week. Where do you find the time he’s got a routine that helps him through that? But I think that’s number one thing is finding something you’re passionate about and, and using that field when you’re going through this transitional phase and really sitting down and it’s like, you learn in brand builders, write down what do people, what would people say you’re good at?
CH (21:52):
What do you enjoy doing? What are the, the main things that people come to you for advice? And when I started, started thinking about that, and I realized that is how I’ve become so successful. How did you do this? How did you shape your body in the certain ways of fitness professional? How did you, you know, make the NFL and gain all that weight? When you had to go from a wide receiver to a tight end, you had to be at a certain weight and I’ll tell ’em, it’s, it’s simple, but not easy. It’s a routine, it’s a discipline. And it’s, it’s, it’s that. And going through that transitional phase, those are the questions I ask myself. And that’s what really helped me to decide where I wanted to go. And obviously, natural, what are you good at naturally? What’s something you enjoy doing. That’s a big question, cuz you don’t wanna go through life. Even if it is very lucrative, you want to be good at what you’re doing and you wanna, for me, I wanted to make an impact in other people’s life. And those were the questions I asked myself and that’s why I went to the direction I did. Mm
AJV (22:49):
Man. That’s so good. It’s it always makes me think about like how long was I doing something that I didn’t love doing? Yeah. Just because I was making a lot of money. Yeah. and that was my truth. It’s like I was not happy doing what I was doing for a minute before. I actually wasn’t doing that anymore. And I, my story’s really similar to yours. It wasn’t planned or expected. It was really unexpected. But I needed it. I needed a, I needed like, you know what they say? It’s like they needed, I needed an abrupt change in my life for me to do a, a full evaluation. But I hadn’t asked myself, what do I love doing maybe ever.
CH (23:29):
Yeah.
AJV (23:29):
Until 2018, it’s like, I started doing something. Got really good at it. Just kept doing it. Yeah. But never in like 15 years that I stopped to say, what do I want to be doing? Yeah. What do I want to be known for? Yeah. and so I’m kind of curious, like for you today, like, do you have an idea of what you want to be known for in this next phase of life?
CH (23:52):
Yeah, absolutely. I want to be known for someone who’s a servant to others, someone that spends his time and energy to help people better themselves. And you gotta do that by first, you know, bettering yourself and then you help people find that path, that same path that you did to improve yourself. And if that’s for business, if that’s for health, that’s something that I’m really passionate about. And just going from where I grew up going from where I started from to where I finished and my story and my brother’s story and my family’s story and things like that. I wanna see those results for a lot of people, for more people that can get out of this perpetual your perpetually, like your poor or whatever. And I want you could, there’s ways that you can improve yourself and help your whole family’s future. And that’s what me and my brother really took tar.
CH (24:47):
We would talk as kids. I mean, these aren’t normal conversations kids have. I remember me and my brother sitting up and talking to each other, how we’re going to buy mom a house and we’re gonna help dad get a car and help our family and our grandmas. And we’re having these conversations. And you know, we put these strategies at the time. We didn’t know exactly what the strategies were, but that’s what we were using. We were using that routine. We were using habits and we’re being consistent and that’s what we did. And that’s what I really am passionate about doing, because I did it. Anybody can do it. Maybe you can’t be an NFL player and play nine years in the NFL, but you can be successful at what you want to be in, be at be if you use these strategies, if you use these habits, if you use a routine and you use discipline,
AJV (25:30):
Man, I, I love this so much. And it’s like, you and your brother you’ve changed your family tree. Yeah. It’s like, that’s, I mean, that’s gonna, that’s a legacy. That’s gonna go for generations.
CH (25:43):
Like that’s. And that’s what we’ve always talked about. Yeah. Is our family for so long, we’ve been underprivileged, you know, for so long, going back, both sides of our family nobody’s ever went to college, you know, and we both graduated college with good grades. And my brothers, obviously he had better. He was better at the school, the classroom stuff than I was, but it’s, it’s looking back and seeing what we were able to do just gave me so much confidence that I could really help anyone. If you use these strategies and you do these things to get to where we were in their specific career. Me and my brother have reached such a high level, just doing these simple strategies of having, just having a routine, getting up at the same time every morning, you know, making sure you get your workout and focusing on your health and wellness, just having these routines, having these habits, always having a book, we’re reading, always having a project.
CH (26:34):
We’re working on something to keep bettering ourself. My brother, if he, he always has this allotment of his schedule, he’s always learn working on some project, whether it’s a certification, whether it’s another degree, whether it’s something he’s always bettering himself. And that’s something I took. That’s why I became a certified personal trainer, a certified fitness coach, certified strength conditioning. I just applied to Kelly business school just to have that allotment of something to do to always better yourself, find your routine, find your schedule, keep it going, keep moving forward and keep showing up. And that’s when you look back and a year down the road, tears down, there you go. Wow. That’s where I was.
AJV (27:12):
Yeah. So why do you think it is that people can’t do that or don’t do that?
CH (27:18):
Well, it’s, it’s, it’s difficult. I always say it’s simple, but it’s not easy. And that’s a lot of things. Why can’t people stop eating junk food?
CH (27:58):
But the days that matter the most, the times that matter the most and your habits and your routine is when you don’t want to do something, you show up anyways, you don’t wanna go to the weight room. You end up getting yourself in there. You really wanna watch this and that. You don’t wanna open the book and do this project. You do it anyways. And there’s there’s habit stacking things you can use in certain things that me and my brother use when in college I used to, I used to be a video game guy. I wanted to play Xbox and I look back and go, what am I doing with this time? What, what am I getting out of this? I gotta stop playing, but you’d go home after practice. You’re tired instead of studying, instead of going to get a little extra workout and working on your craft.
CH (28:38):
So now what I would do is I’d unplug my Xbox. I’d put my controller up high somewhere that unplug my TV. So now when I do get home the next day, man, if I wanna do Xbox, guess what? I’m gonna have to go find my controller, plug in my TV, plug in my Xbox and sign in all over again. So now it’s like, I might as well just do this. And there’s little tricks that we’ve always helped each other do and use and that way. And there’s a lot of those, those things that we’ve done. And that’s what a lot of, lot of everything, the things I speak on is, is how those little tricks can help and, and, and just help you to improve and make you more consistent. But it’s just goes back to showing up every day.
AJV (29:19):
Yeah. That’s those are so many good little nuggets in there and you know, it’s a, it’s about removing the temptation, right? Yes.
CH (29:26):
Yes.
AJV (29:27):
You wanna lose weight? It’s like remove all the bad food from the house. Yes. Donate it. Give it away. Get it out of the house, right? It’s like unplug your TV, right? Yes. Turn your phone off after hours. All the hide, your remote, right? It’s like all those little things of like, you have to learn how to remove temptation, right? Absolutely. That’s temptation
CH (29:51):
Bundle something. One thing my brother does is something I’ve, I’ve always loved is he, he has a couple shows. He has to watch. Only time he can turn on Netflix is when he is on the Peloton or when he is riding a bike. So you don’t wanna work out. Okay. If I, if I work out, I can watch this 20 minute show this 30 minute show. So then he’ll go work out just so he can watch the show. You know, you bundle things that way and that’s an improvement. You know, maybe it’s a 1% improvement, but those 1% improvements add up and they keep you showing up and they keep you improving.
AJV (30:24):
Oh my gosh. There’s so much richness in that of, and that could be applied to whatever it is in life. Right? Yeah. It’s, I’m I’m reading a book right now called the ruthless elimination of hurry. And one of the statistics in this book I thought was fascinating and it said that the average American reads roughly 200 words a minute. Right. if that’s true, if that’s true and you were to read one hour every day for an entire year, you would actually be able to read almost 200 books in a year.
CH (31:00):
Wow. For one hour.
AJV (31:02):
Yeah. For one hour a day. Wow. at the average rate of reading. Yeah. Words a minute then. So think about that 200 books. Yeah. And like my goal this year was a book a month and I’m on track and I’m like, so proud of myself. Yeah. And then I read this and I’m like, oh man, I have a long way to go. They have a long way to go. And I’m a really fast reader. I bet my average reading speed is twice that. And I’m like, oh, what am I doing with my time then? And so it really forced this internal reflection of how am I choosing to spend my time? Because when I say I don’t have time, that’s not true. I’m giving my time to things unintentionally that are sucking up all my time instead of them on the things that I should. So I thought that was amazing. But then these were the other two statistics that I literally put the book down and was like, you have to come here this like what? And these statistics and these were from two and 19, 2019 statistics. And so they’re probably even far more greater right now. Yeah. and so here was the next one, the next one said the average American and the course of a year spends 700 hours on social media.
CH (32:16):
Wow. That’s
AJV (32:17):
Twice what it would be to read one hour a day. So if we don’t have time to better ourselves, look at what you’re doing instead. So it’s twice the amount of time. That’s two hours a day. Yeah. In and off of social media. And I literally put the book down and was like, no effing way. And so I pulled out my phone cause you know how your phone can track your social time. Tell me what its, and it was like this like aha moment of like every like five minutes here, five minutes here, five minutes here. It’s like,
CH (32:53):
It adds up.
AJV (32:54):
Then this was the one that I was like unbelievable. The average American each year watches TV for more than 2000 hours. That’s two and a half times the social media. Not in place of, in addition to,
CH (33:14):
Oh my gosh.
AJV (33:15):
So think about those things when it’s like, don’t have time to get healthy. Don’t have time to lose weight. Don’t have time to do this. Next thing. Don’t have time to read. It’s like I say these things, right. I have two young kids. I have a two year old and I just turned five year old running into business. I’m like, I don’t have time to go do that. I don’t have time. Like yes you do. Cuz my phone just said, so my phone said, yo girl, this is how much time you spent on social media last week. And then I was counting up like how many hours of Bridger Tim did I watch? You know? And it’s like all these things. And it’s like, yeah, yes you do. It’s like, but we’re not consciously aware of our time is going cuz we don’t have a schedule. We don’t have a routine. We’re reactive. We’re living this default life of just letting everything fill up our time because we don’t have a regimented schedule and routine that we’re proactively trying to get better. Yeah. love that so much. That’s so good. And it is simple that it’s so hard, right? It’s so difficult. It’s so hard.
CH (34:10):
There’s some crazy statistics like I next next speech I give I’m, I’m gonna put those in there and there’s, there’s a time and a place for social media connecting. But that amount of time you need to work that into your schedule and you know your routine say, Hey, after I finish a project, I will give myself five minutes or 10 minutes to figure out social media. And that’s how you bundle it. And you make yourself, you can make yourself be extra productive with it. If you give yourself an allotment at the end of a project, you have your to-do list. You go down and I’m a big guy of having a to-do list. I know some people say yes, some people say no. Some people say yes on goals. Some people say no on goals. I’m big goals. I’m big to-do lists. That’s what’s helped me throughout my life.
CH (34:52):
When I’ve been the most productive is goals. To-Do list. And you put, you put your list up. Okay. Here’s are the most important things I have today. Okay. After I finish this, I will give myself five minutes here on social media. I’ll give myself five minutes here and that’s the way it should be. And that’s something I’ve implemented. And I know I’m cuz I, you know, I make, I have a business, a social media business where I, I do influencing, I do brand partnerships. I do consulting with some of these companies. So sometimes I’ll convince myself that what I’m doing is necessary and I need to do this for work. And I find myself just scrolling. I go, okay, what am I doing there? And you’re convincing yourself that you really you’re benefiting from that, but you’re not, you’re not being productive. And when you put it in, you fit it in after the end of checking something off your list at the end, okay. I I’m gonna work on this for an hour then to give myself five minutes. Mm-Hmm
AJV (35:49):
Yeah. I mean I have found for me, it’s like I have to set a timer. It’s like, if this is a part of my business, which it is, it’s like, yeah, but this is what I’m gonna allot to it every day. Yeah. Set the timer. Cause otherwise that’s true. It’s like you just start scrolling and you’re like, oh wait, what was I doing? What was I supposed to be doing?
CH (36:05):
AJV (36:06):
Somehow I’ve ended up on the revolved shopping website and I’m like, that is not what I’m supposed to be doing right now. Focus back on track. I love that. That’s so good. That’s so wise. That’s so smart and it’s so applicable. No matter what your business is, it’s like, I think it’s a really great task for anyone who is listening to this show right now, just to take a quick inventory of what are you doing every day? Like do you actually have a schedule? Do you actually have a routine for your personal brand, for social media, for podcasting, for learning, for reading, for improving, for creating content, right? It’s like gotta have a schedule. Otherwise it’s like that just the, the at entirety of the urgent, right? There’s always gonna be something that’s urgent. That’s happening that fill, fills up this time that you’ve set aside unless you protect it.
AJV (36:51):
And I think that’s so applicable universally. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing as a parent, an entrepreneur and athlete doesn’t matter. Okay. All right. I’m gonna switch gears. I have two other quick things that I wanna talk about before our time runs up together. So one of the things that you did that I think is really fascinating that I did not know about you until well, well, after we were friends and chatting is you have this stint in the reality TV world. And you know, I was, and this was like, you know, six or seven months ago. And I was like, oh, I didn’t even know that about clay. And then I was like mine. And then one of our, my friends was like, do you not know how many like followers he has that are like just all these women that were like crazed for him.
AJV (37:35):
And I was like, I totally missed this part of Clay’s life. I don’t know how I miss this. So here’s what I wanna know. It’s like one, why did you decide to do it? Yeah. Right. How did that help you grow your platform, grow your audience. And then two, what are ways like I think what I think what would be most interesting is to this audience is why, like, why do you think people follow you? Right. Because I think a huge part of this is just exposure. Right? That’s putting stuff in front of a group of people that you’re like, no, I like him. Yeah. Like I wanna see like what he’s all about, but then how do you keep that going way after, you know, in this case a show ends. So walk us through that. Why’d you do it? How did it help your audience? And then how do you keep it going?
CH (38:15):
Absolutely. So I wish that I would’ve been a part of brand builders while a long time earlier than this, you know, it would’ve really helped me in my journey, but you know, I’m here now and it’s really been great. So after I, when I go on the batch ride, it’s my, I know my football career is winding down and I’m starting to look and see, okay, what is going on afterwards? And as far as the bachelorette, I get contacted by these people. They go through my agent and you’re like, Hey, he’s still on the football team. Like we, this is all in the off season, you know, we’re very, we’ll let you do what you need to do. We just want, really want you to come on this show. And so I’m thinking I’m like, should I really do this or not? And I’m like, maybe there’s, you know, some things can come from it.
CH (38:59):
And one of my passions was announcing announcing football and being a commentator. And I had known a few ex football players, Jesse Palmer, friend of mine. He went from being the bachelor to being on the ESPN and all these shows, Jordan Rogers, same thing, football players are being announcer. I’m like, Hmm, these guys have really used this platform to jump into their second career. Yeah. And that’s kind of what I was thinking. I go, I’m single, I’m unattached. I’m I’m not opposed to meeting someone and dating and getting married. I, I do want that. I want a wife. I want kids. I want all of that. So I would be open to that. But then also I think that this can be a way for me to move into a second career. I didn’t know much about social media back then. I had a private Instagram. I was on Twitter for a little bit.
CH (39:46):
And I had a Facebook page that I was connected to. My family didn’t even know people made money off of social media at that point back in 20 17, 20 18. So I go on the show and I actually end up getting hurt on the show. Not, not emotionally, physically
CH (40:32):
Yeah, great TV. So I ended up getting injured and whatever, and you know, I still go back to the NFL and that’s after that is when I tore my groin. It was kind of a, a spiral of things that happened. I ended up pull, tearing my groin in my workout. So after that, I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do. And then I go on the the spinoff show called bachelor in paradise for same kind of reasons. I’m open to, I’m open to a relationship hoping that happens. But I think it’s a way at that point, I start realizing this is a way that you can get exposure and build your brand. Maybe I could jump into announcing things like that. And it’s really puts you in front of a big audience, ABC prime time, eight o’clock it’s a great opportunity if you wanna build your brand for the cults kind of.
CH (41:14):
Yeah. So that’s, so that’s what I did. I didn’t leave there married or engaged, you know, sorry, mom. She always calls me. She wants grandkids, but I’m focused on so many things right now, mom. If you’re watching this it’ll happen soon. I promise
CH (41:57):
And I think you have to keep consistently working on it and it’s not something that’s gonna happen. Keep putting forth good content. And then you work with brands. I’d never worked with brands before. And then, then people like the content you’re putting out. They like how you brand yourself, what you stand for. And they keep working with you. I don’t have the most followers in Bachelor nation or anything like that. But I get a lot of deals with some reputable companies because of my brand health and wellness. You know, I I’m speaking on, on good things than just keeping your image and your brand is so important. These guys like, wait, I got better engagement. I got better, but you don’t have a brand. You don’t have something that you stand for. Yeah. So that’s a very important thing. When it comes to working with these companies and these people, when they want to hire you, it, it really comes back to your brand and brand building. Like I said, I wish I had went through some of these courses before I went on the show, but now I know more and more, you know what these companies are looking for, what these people wanna do when they’re hiring you, how do you sell yourself? That’s all things that I’ve learned from, from you and Rory and it’s, it’s been great. And I’m still learning.
AJV (43:02):
Yeah, I know. That’s so good. It’s you know, and a thing I love about this is a great reminder to anyone who’s like working to build their audience, build their platform. It’s like, you know, it’s like, you know, there’s, I know there’s so many things out there where you can like buy followers and you know, you can buy accounts now. And it’s like, why? Right. Yeah. What you really want is to be known for what you believe in, right. It’s to have a reputation that compliments all of your values and beliefs and, and I love what you said. It was like, really like this show was a way to get more exposure. Yeah. But you know, it’s like, but what they were getting exposed to is the real you, right? Yeah. It’s like, they’re coming, they’re saying I’m all about health, fitness, wellness, positivity, schedule, routines, mindset.
AJV (43:48):
And it’s like, although they met you here. Yeah. Right. They’re they’re following and staying with you because they align with you. They like you yeah. They’re, they’re getting value from you. They start to learn from you and trust you, which is why they stay. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. I mean, that’s not any different, like, you know, I follow Leo Messey and Christiana, Aldo, right? Yeah. World famous soccer players and Nashville just got our first soccer team. Right. We just, oh, nice stadium. And so I’m like really going all in on learning all things, soccer outside of my kids’ Peewee soccer. And so it be fascinating. Like, you know, Christiana Ronaldo has got the largest social media following in the world, in the world, almost 600 and 600 million followers across platforms. Yeah. Almost twice the size of the United States.
CH (44:41):
Oh,
AJV (44:42):
Wow. Enormous. Right. Wow. But here’s the thing it’s like, people first heard about him because of his amazing skills in his sport. Yeah. But once you go to his profile, he has hardcore health, wellness, fitness. Yeah. He a die hard health, nut nutrition. It’s about his family. I think they have five kids. It’s about a lot and commitment to his wife being a father. Yes. He talks about soccer and modeling and there’s lots of shirtless posts that doesn’t hurt him. I’m sure. Yeah. But it’s a lot about like what you put into your body exercising fitness routine schedule habits, right? It’s like people may have heard about him because of soccer. Right. People may heard, learned about you because of the bachelorette. If they were watching. Yeah. Know, people may have heard about me because of something, but if you can stay true to your brand, if you can stay true to the reputation that you’re building, and if you get clear on what you wanna be known for, then when people find you, it’s easy for them to go.
AJV (45:42):
Yes. I want more of that. Yes. I like this. Yes. I will follow this. Yes, absolutely. To engage with this. But if that’s not clear, then I don’t know what I’m coming for. Right. Yeah. It’s like, it’s the same. It’s like, if I would’ve come to your profile, you know, back in 2018, when you were on the bachelorette or whenever that was 17. Yeah. And you were just pictures of you and chicks all the time. I would’ve been like pass. Yeah. But if I would’ve come and it’s like, no, I’m looking for health, fitness, wellness, inspiration, motivation habits, routines. It wouldn’t have mattered where I learned about you from, because once I’m there, I’m like, that’s what I want more of.
CH (46:20):
Yeah.
AJV (46:21):
And that’s sounds for any of us. So it’s like the question is to everyone listening, it’s what are you doing to increase your exposure? Right. Absolutely. This was a great way of growing and building your platform. But it was in a way that was in line and true to who you were and what you had to be talking about already.
CH (46:40):
Absolutely. You gotta have that brand and that’s how you get, get an audience and keep an audience, a loyal audience. And, and even after, you know, the show, a lot of people, you know, a lot of the people that go on these shows are audience start to go down and dip and you’ll see people that don’t really have a brand, just keep posting themselves with, you know, friends or family and stuff. And you, you know, you gotta, you gotta give people a reason to follow you. And, and for me, it’s a lot to do with health and wellness. And now I’m really working on some cool things to do with the motivational space, the habits and routine coming out there. And I’m really excited to show people that side of me too. So it’s, it’s, you gotta give some reason, you know, what am I getting out of following this person of, of staying, you know, involved in what this person is doing. And if you give people something, you, you generally give them something that they, they can use, they will follow you. And, and that will, will help both of you.
AJV (47:33):
Yeah. You gotta give them some value, right? Like
CH (47:35):
Gotta give value. Absolutely.
AJV (47:37):
Like give value, build trust. Yes. Again, simple. Not easy. Yes. Alright. Last question, clay. And then I’m gonna let you go. What do you wish people knew about you that they don’t know right now?
CH (47:49):
That’s a good question, AJ. And you know, there’s, there’s quite a few things. I, I mean, I don’t wanna tell people that my, you know, my first love was, was trying to be a singer and I, my mom had to tell me, clay, you have a terrible voice and you’re never gonna do that. But that’s something funny, mom.
AJV (48:07):
Thanks.
CH (48:07):
But something that I, you know, I do we’ve talked about a little bit on the show is just where I’ve come from. I haven’t spoke out much about my, my history, my background, where I come from, you know, people see me and, you know, living a good life and taking trips and, you know, and living in a nice home or nice car, whatever. But I really want people to know that this is not something that I was given for me. It was all about discipline routine and hard work. And, you know, I was, I lived in a trailer with 12 people growing up. I didn’t have my own bed until I went to college, shared to bed with my mom and my brother. You know, this is where I came from. And this is what people can do. If you just have the habits that discipline routine you can grow and you can change your life. Even your family’s life, your, your family’s trajectory this way. Me and my brother, both it wasn’t just because I hit a home run and could play NFL football. You know, some people might say, oh, you got luck. You could play NFL football. Look at my brother. He didn’t play NFL football. And he’s doing the same thing
AJV (49:05):
He’s
CH (49:05):
Working. Yes. He, he’s working a great job. Him and his wife are, are doing very well financially. They have amazing kids. They keep bettering themselves. They keep this routine. They always have a project. It’s, it’s something that, that anybody can do. And that’s something I want people to know that I wasn’t given to me. I had to work for it. And that’s why I’m so passionate about getting my message out there,
AJV (49:28):
Man, clay, I hope this becomes a pivotal part of your story. I hope that one day for every kid, every young person, every adult who looks out there and says, woe is me. Yeah. Look at my situation. I can’t do anything about it. That would be able to then look at you and go, but yes you can. Yeah. But it’s hard work. It’s hard work. It’s discipline and it’s habits and it routine. It’s like, yeah. I love that you changed, you know, the trajectory of your family tree, you and your brother. It’s like, I would really love to meet your parents one day. Yeah. How proud of you guys, they must be. And man, I just, I love your story. I love your heart. I love what you doing. So honored to get, to know you and get to be a part of your story and your journey. Thank you so much for being on the show today. If people wanna follow you online, where should they go?
CH (50:19):
You can follow me on my Instagram clay HARs 82, or you could just message me on my website, clay Harbor, online.com. And if you want to just talk to me about possible speaking, gig consulting health and wellness training. My website, it’s all there. Clay Harbor, online.com. Social media, clay. Harbor’s 82 on Instagram. And yeah, I appreciate you having me on AJ. And I look forward to seeing you and Rory at, at the next brand builders event.
AJV (50:49):
Yes, likewise. And y’all, it’s like if you’re looking for a great podcast, host, go to clay Harbor online.com request him as a guest. If you’re looking for a speaker at your upcoming event, go to clay Harbor, online.com, check him out. You will not be disappointed. I promise I’ll put all these links in the show notes and we’ll catch you guys next time on the influential personal brand. See you later.
Ep 333: Build Your Brand by Building Your Audience with Amberly Lago | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, y’all a J Vaden here and welcome to the recap episode of my conversation with Amber Lee Wago. And I love her
AJV (01:52):
So, you know, I have a lot though. Okay. I don’t even know where to start cause they’re not three. And I know we usually say three, but I have more than three today. So here’s a couple of things that I think are really good. We talked a lot about a common theme in this interview with knowing who your audience is, right? So if you’re creating content and I would say content is not restricted to social media or blogs or podcasting we all create content. I literally was on a text thread with a girlfriend today. Who’s like, Hey, I, I’m making a really big change in my professional life. And it’s really hard for me to ask for help, but would you be open to dinner or coffee or drink? So I can just get some professional advice or just some input on this decision I’m making.
AJV (02:47):
And it’s like, to me, I’m already mentally preparing of like, how can I best serve my friend in this conversation? Right? It’s like, I know where she is. I don’t know what advice she needs, but I’m already going, like, what do I have that could be a benefit to her. That is content
AJV (03:48):
So again, to me, it doesn’t matter if you’re a salesperson, a mom, a friend, an entrepreneur, a CEO, and executive speaker, author podcaster, wrap it all up right into one it’s communication. And in order to be an effective communicator, you have to know your audience, right? That’s not new. That’s not like we haven’t heard that before to have effective conversations and to be involved in effective communication. We need to know where the other person stands. That is your audience. This is just to an audience of perhaps more than one, right? And so you’ve got to know your audience. So then the question is, how do you get to know your audience? And that’s a part of your job and curating, who do you want your audience to be? Because you actually do get to influence that. And a huge part of it is who is the audience already around you?
AJV (04:49):
And what do you have to share and give to those people? What is the audience that you already have online and offline, but just as much as who is the audience that you want to attract, that you want to curate, that needs to hear what you have to say. That can benefit from something that you have to say, because I just really come from a place of every single person listening to this and everyone not listening to this. You have something to share that can positively impact and benefit the life of someone around you, whether or not you believe that to be true or not. It is true. There is a story and experience. There is something that you have that will help someone else, but it will be more helpful when you know who that someone else is, because that will allow you to reach those people.
AJV (05:45):
And it will allow you to have a bigger impact because there’s a little bit more focus and intention. So again, in order to have effective communication, I E creating content, you have to know who your audience is. So you need to know things about them. You need to inquire, you need to ask them, you need to have a relationship with them, but you need to know who they are. So that ties into my second one, which I think this is really good. How do you curate this type of audience? This is so simple that it kind of blows my mind. It’s like one of those things where it’s like, it’s so simple and it’s so true, but yet we don’t do it. Or at least I don’t sometimes. So this was a great reminder to me, the way that you curate an audience is to share what, you know, that’s, it
AJV (06:59):
There’s in this phenomenon of this thing called the imposter syndrome. And for a long time, I was embarrassed to ask what is that exactly? Because everyone talks about it, but I was really unclear what it’s about to Google it when they like, what is imposter syndrome? And then it hit me. And I was like, what an odd phenomenon that people somehow don’t feel adequate enough to live up to the accolades that they’ve actually done. Why this is, it was, it was foreign to me at the time. And this is my reconciliation of that is that often now you don’t have to agree with this that’s okay. But this is mine often when we suffer from things like imposter syndrome, it’s because we found, we find ourselves in situations where we don’t get to speak what we know, and either we put ourselves there or we volunteer to get put somewhere, or we got hired to put somewhere, but we’re in a situation where we’re no longer speaking what we know.
AJV (08:09):
And we’re trying to seem more credible or we’re trying to share pieces of information that are academically correct, but they’re not personally in tune with us. And I believe that’s where a lot of imposter syndrome comes from. Because if you just share what you know, then that’s just who you are.
AJV (09:08):
Whether someone else agrees with it or not. That’s okay. But when you speak, when you share what you know through your lens, you naturally start to attract people and simultaneously repel people. The problem with that is the third thing we’re gonna talk about is we want to be liked by everyone and we’re gonna have to be okay with not being like every one. That’s hard. It’s hard for me too. It’s like, sometimes I get like hateful comments and I’m like, delete
AJV (10:17):
Not, that is not a life worth living. Well, there will be people who love you for just the way you are. Just like, there will be people who do not even like you for who you are welcome to life. That’s already happening all around us. It’s just amplified with the digital, the digital atmosphere that we live in. But the more authentic you become, the more polarizing you will also become. But that means that you are attracting the audience that needs you. And you are naturally repelling the audience who does not. And that’s actually a really great thing because you’re reaching the right people and the people who don’t can go find someone else. We have to be okay with that kinda like three high level things. But I also wanted to share some of these one liners, cause I thought they were really good that I just really love this.
AJV (11:15):
It’s treat your audience like family. And she goes, I have even a hard time saying audience. These are friends. These have become family, but treat your audience like family. Just really quick little things actually listen to your audience meaning actually pay attention to what they’re engaging on. And I love what she said. She goes, if you really wanna know what your audience needs and wants, ask them and pay attention to what they’re asking you for. Go back through your DMS or look at your emails, look at your text messages pay attention to what your family and your friends and the people around you and your everyday life pay attention to what they come to you for, what they ask you for. But listen to your audience, actually pay attention to what’s happening. That will give you the direction of everywhere.
AJV (12:03):
You need to go. Just listen. So good. Become known for one thing, right? You, we talk about this a lot at Ram builder, screw you break through Shehan wall by becoming known for one thing, but it’s the more you talk about one thing, the easier it is to become known for that thing. So focus, right? Put a little blinders on here. Don’t get distracted by all the shiny things, all the temptations focus. And you can do that when you know who your audience is, the focus I thought that was really great purpose instead of trying to find your purpose, try to serve other people and you will find purpose by doing that. So good. Y’all instead of me trying to just sit here and go, what is my purpose? Right? I’m like a journal about it. I could read about it, or I can go serve other people and find purpose in the process.
AJV (13:04):
So good. So, so good. And then last but not least everyone you need to serve is already all around you. He just have to see him. And I love this. If you didn’t listen to her story I will encourage you to go do so now because she has a really amazing story about being in a pretty tragic motorcycle accident, went through 34 surgeries and lost her very well known fitness business, but she’s built a whole new business by just showing up and being present for the people around her. And it started in a gym not online. It started in a gym by her showing up every single day. The same thing can happen for you. You do not have to have millions of followers to make millions of dollars and you do not have to make millions of dollars to make massive impact in this world. Y’all, it’s an killer episode, highly recommend it. So glad that you’re listening, I really encourage you to listen to this one. If you suffer from imposter syndrome, if you’re trying to find your way, this is an episode worth listening to, so come back, check us out again and we’ll see you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 332: Build Your Brand by Building Your Audience with Amberly Lago
RV (00:00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:00:53):
Hey everybody. And welcome to the influential personal brand. This is AJ Vaden. Here I am one of your co-hosts along with my partner in crime, Rory Vaden. And today I’m always excited because we have such awesome guests, but I’m, I’m especially excited for our guests today because Amber Lee Lago is one of those people that even though we’re on zoom and she and I have never actually got to meet in person, you can feel the joy that just emanates from her being. And it’s like to honestly like your whole aura, just like brightens the room. And even when you’re over zoom, it still does that. And I just, I love to get to spend time with you. I love to get to talk to you. And I’m so excited to introduce you to our audience, but for anyone’s listening, if you ever had a friend or if you’ve ever known anyone that just being around them makes you in a better mood.
AJV (00:01:49):
That’s what you’re gonna get from Amber Lee today. So wherever you are, here’s why you need to stick around. You’re going to leave the next 45 to 55 minutes in a better place than where you started that I can promise you I don’t know all the amazing things we’re gonna talk about right now. That’s the beauty of the conversations that I get to have with Amber Lee. But what I do know is that you’re gonna be in a better place than where you are right now. So you need to stick around, you need to pay attention get out of pen and paper, right? If you’re driving, don’t do that, but listen intently, right? But this is one of those conversations that you just never know what you’re gonna get. And I feel that way every single time that I talk to you and I’m so excited to introduce you to our audience.
AJV (00:02:33):
So let me give you a little bit of a formal introduction so that I don’t forget any of the awesomeness that makes up all things, Amber Lee. So a quick, quick recap for all of you listening. If you are new to Amber Lee Lago, she is a peak performance coach. She’s a TEDx speaker. She’s a podcaster. Her podcast is awesome. I love it. She is a leading expert in the field of resilience and transformation, and she’s got a hell of a real life story to back that up. She is the best selling author of true grit and grace. She’s the founder of the unstoppable life mastermind. And I just love that title so much. We’re gonna talk a lot about this mastermind is its launching right now. But I think more than anything, what I love so much about you is you, you have this passion about you and what you’re doing and you have a real life story that goes along with it. And I think there’s a lot of power in having, you know, academic credentials and I’m not downplaying those at all, but for me anyways, in my life journey, people like you who have these real life stories mean so much more. And that is why I’m so excited to introduce you to our audience. So thank you so much for being on the show today.
AL (00:03:51):
Oh my goodness. AJ, I just love you. Did you see me kind of grabbing my arms when you started talking? It’s because I had goosebumps because when you were talking, I was thinking the exact same thing about you that when I see you even through zoom, I’m like, oh my goodness, you radiate joy and light. And just so I’m so grateful to be here and connect with you again and with your audience. So thank you for that most amazing introduction.
AJV (00:04:22):
Well, it’s all true. And I’m honestly, I’m, I’m so excited to introduce you to our audience and for all of you who are listening, you know, that we bring on really special guests that kind of like pull back the veil and kind of give up behind the scenes, real life perspective of how do you build a personal brand? How do you become known for something? How do you tap into that thing that we call personal branding, which, you know, to us is synonymous with reputation, but, and how do you build an audience and how do you find an audience and how do you become known for something that you wanna be known for? And so Amber Lee, this is where I wanna start just in case anyone listening doesn’t really know you. I would love for you to just give people a chance to get to know a little bit of your backstory, a little of your background, and like ultimately today, right? You’ve got this bestselling book, you have this awesome mastermind you’re launching, you’re a TEDx speaker. You’re an amazing podcaster. You’re keynote speaking. You’re doing all these things that you didn’t always do. Those things. Mm-Hmm
AL (00:05:38):
That’s such a great question because I actually just had a conversation with someone who was interested in joining my mastermind yesterday. And she said, yeah, but Amberly, you have all these things because you know, you have this story that you can tell this story. And so, you know, basically it was easy for me to get to where I am. And I just wanna say like five years ago, I didn’t even own a laptop. So when you say you have a bestselling book, you’re a podcaster. I knew nothing about technology. And I remember that
AJV (00:06:15):
Is there. I wanna make sure people had actually heard that five years ago. Mm-Hmm
AL (00:06:22):
Didn’t own a laptop. I had a smartphone. Is that what they even call it now? Like I
AJV (00:06:29):
Many, how many people truly are listening today? Do you think that truly give themselves the excuse? I’m just too late to the game, right? Mm-Hmm
AL (00:06:53):
My story’s not enough my story. And I’m like, we all have a story, you know what I mean? It’s like, we all have something to share an experience to share that could be a roadmap for someone else. And when we get caught up in that comparison or we give ourself, we make start making excuses, you know, I was 37 when my book came out. Yeah. I’m like, no, no, no, wait 37 that’s later. No, I wish I was 37.
AL (00:07:49):
I actually did those things because it wasn’t that long ago that I didn’t even have social media. And it wasn’t until I wrote my book and I had, you know, I hand wrote about 90% of my book on these notepads. I have notepads all over my desk. I love notepads, but I didn’t own a laptop. And I didn’t have a lot of people that also believed in me. And they thought I was crazy for wanting to write a book. You know, I was in the fitness industry for 26 years and they were like, why don’t you just stick to that? You’re the fitness girl. And I’m like, but no, I wanna write this book. And so I hand wrote about 90% of it. And one day was very discouraged when I couldn’t figure out how to send a picture. Like, I didn’t even know.
AL (00:08:34):
My husband had a, like a, a PC, like a computer. I did not know how to work. And I was, I asked to speak at this event for Lona Jane, which I was really excited about. And still I was a little bit like, okay, a lot imposter syndrome. Like, why do they want me? And I had to send them a picture like of me. And I was trying to find a picture to send. And I asked my husband, well, can you, you know, teach, show me how to send this picture in an email. And he’s like, oh, what do you want now? And I was like, that’s it. I’m just gonna go buy my own computer. And I went to the Mac store and I bought myself a laptop. And then I went to type my whole book up. I got a publisher and I love that you talk so much about the marketing and branding and the personal brand, because I love learning from you.
AL (00:09:25):
And so that’s one of the reasons I think so many people love all that. You share, love your podcast so much because we learn so much from you. Okay. I knew nothing. And this publisher was like, we don’t do any marketing or branding for you. So if you wanna get your book out there, it’s up to you to do it. And so I was like, well, I don’t have a big budget. Like I have zero budget. So let me try this social media thing out. And I had like a couple of hundred followers on Instagram. I literally, that were like friends and family. I basically had that account. So I could stalk my oldest daughter. I didn’t even know how to post. And I was like, well, I’m just gonna start sharing. And I started sharing what I had gone through, how I had to completely reinvent myself.
AL (00:10:15):
How’d I had to learn how to love myself again. And I started to share like mostly, you know, from a scar and not an open wound. And you I’ll get to the question that you asked, sorry, for this long, I love this cancer, but you know, I had this incredible career and fitness and for 26 years, that’s what I did. And so I had, I was a trainer. I had trainers that worked for me. I taught a trainer certification preparation course. I was like in it, I was sponsored by Nike. I was doing infomercials. If you walked into like a Rite aid or something, you would see vitamin labels. And there would be me right on the vitamin label. And so I, I thought life is good. After a lot of grit to get to where I was, I was like, life is good.
AL (00:11:10):
And that all changed. When, you know, one day coming home from work, I got T-boned hit by an SUV, thrown 30 feet on, on my motorcycle and slid across the asphalt. And I remember looking down at my leg and my, one of my first thoughts, AJ was this can’t be good. I might have to train clients on crutches for a while. Like I was already thinking, how am I gonna keep training my clients? I had no idea just how much this was gonna change my life. Rushed to the hospital. And I was putting induced coma. And when I woke up from a coma is when I learned, I had a 1% chance of saving my leg. And to me, it was like my leg. That was my livelihood running was my drug of choice. I mean, that was what I did for happiness. A lot of people would like to, you know, get rid of anxiety by having a drink or something running is what I did.
AL (00:12:12):
That was my therapy. And I thought, what am I gonna do? And, and I thought, well, 1%, well then there’s still a chance mm-hmm
AL (00:13:22):
I thought this can’t have happened for nothing. Like there’s gotta be, you know, I want other people to know that they can hang on to hope that they can. All you need is just a glimmer of that hope to keep moving forward. Because I was in a place where I did not wanna live. I went from surviving this accident and 34 surgeries to really sinking down into despair and depression and went from being this fitness expert to all of a sudden, I was drinking every day to try to cope with the pain. And it was at that moment, there was a turning point where I thought there’s gotta be more to life than this and climbing my way back out of that and rebuilding myself in every way, spiritually, mentally, physically, financially. I mean, we had 2.9 million worth of medical expenses. And so for anybody listening, who is going through a struggle right now, whether it is financially or physically or emotionally, I think there’s been a lot going on in the world, or even you’re in a place in your life where, you know, you don’t, maybe you didn’t get hit by an SUV, but you got hit by something in these last couple of years, that there is a way that you can strategically take steps to rebuild and tap into your resilience, to get through those moments.
AL (00:14:52):
And let me tell you if I can do it and completely reinvent myself and learn to love myself, you know, go from being a fitness model to being scarred up from the hip down and doing that all in my late forties. And now I’m 50, then anything’s possible.
AJV (00:15:13):
I mean, there are so many different paths that I could take this conversation from just even this very shortened version of just a tiny part of your story. That, there’s one thing that really sticks out to me that I think applies to probably every single person listening, which is this devaluation of their own story. And like, even to hear you say, it’s like, man, I hear this. I’m a podcast from my speaker and it’s oh yeah. It’s like, I do those things, I think today and every day. Right. I think throughout, you know, I don’t think it’s, I don’t think it’s different today than it was 50 years ago, or it will be in 50 years from now. I, I think that in general, we downplay the significance of our own stories and we forget that we all have a story and that our stories are lives are there for a reason now, regardless of what, you know, anyone’s beliefs are, who’s listening.
AJV (00:16:18):
It’s like things happen for a reason. And a part of that reason I do believe is to help us share it’s to create that community. And so I would just love to hear from you of your take on, like, how did you find the significance of your story in such a way that you’re like, there’s a message in here and I feel so compelled to share it that I’m gonna hand write it, right. And I’m gonna figure this out at 45, 46, 47, because there is something in this that I have to get out in the world. And I think that’s a really important thing because we all have those things. And most of us just don’t find a way to share ’em and it doesn’t matter to me, like you don’t have to be an author or a speaker or a podcaster or anything to go. I have a story that has the ability to shape and even change someone else’s life. So I could share it to a friend, to an employee, to a stranger, to my barista at the coffee shop. But how, how do you find the significance of your story and believe that it has the power to actually make a difference. And so I’ll just start with, how did you do that?
AL (00:17:38):
Well, you know what, I think that sometimes you have people around you that help you do that because I did not see the significance in my story or myself. I mean, I, to be completely transparent, I hated myself. I, I really just was very unhappy and I didn’t feel like I was enough. I didn’t feel like I was a good enough mom anymore. I felt broken in every way. And it wasn’t until I think a couple of things happened. And I mean, first of all, I will say that, like you said, we all have a story. We all have things that we’re, we’re really good at. And I would really urge anyone listening today to really think about what is that thing that people tell you that you’re good at, or that people come to you. And they’re always asking you advice on this one thing or this one thing that you could just talk about all day and it lights you up.
AL (00:18:43):
It gives you goosebumps. You would talk about it, whether you were paid for it or not, you would fly across the country to talk about it. Like, what is that thing or things, and start writing those things down. But for me, I did not see like I said, I felt really broken and I remember, you know, I was so wanted to get back. I wanted to get back to training clients. And I remember thinking I needed my clients now more than they needed me because I needed a purpose. I needed a reason to, I wanted to get back to work. I wanted to do what I loved again. And so I remember thinking, well, who’s gonna wanna train with me. Like I’m broken, I’m on crutches to my surprise. My business boomed because people saw me going into the gym in my wheelchair and getting up outta my wheelchair to do tricep push downs, getting back in my wheelchair with my leg, all bandaged up.
AL (00:19:43):
They saw me coming in after a surgery and having like an I IV in a wire that was going in a cast on my leg. And I was on the row machine doing the row machine with one leg. They saw me on crutches. They saw me back in a wheelchair. They saw me limping. They saw me before I could get my leg all the way up around the bike in the day that I got it all the way up and I could do the bike, like a normal person. Well kind of it wasn’t very pretty, but kind of
AL (00:20:26):
And I thought, if Ambery can show up, I can get my button at spin class and I can do it too. And then I would have somebody come up to me and say, Hey, do you mind talking to my aunt? She’s having a real hard time getting off the couch. If you could just call her. And so I’d call her and I’d give her a pep. And so IPEC talk. And I was like going to one person at a time. And I found myself on the bicycle at the gym. And there was a girl riding the bicycle beside me. And she noticed like, all these people were just coming up to me nonstop, like the whole hour that I was there on the bike and they were, would come up and they would tell me their problems. And I would offer solutions or suggestions that had helped me.
AL (00:21:08):
And she goes, don’t you get tired of people coming up to you with all your, their problems? And I said, well, no, not if I can help ’em. I said, I, I, I, I like helping people. So there was my first clue that there was something there because, and then it was at the doctor’s office. So I’d had all these surgeries still, like I said, I wasn’t, I had looked down at my leg with kind of discussed, cuz it was all scarred up. And it was given me so much pain. I had tried all these different treatments, ketamine, infusions, spinal stimulator, spinal blocks, Eastern Western medicine. I mean, you name it. I had tried it. I was on 73 homeopathic pills at one time, a day and 11 prescription medications and nothing was helping with this complex regional pain syndrome. And I remember I had this solution. I was like, well, we’ll just amputate. And I went to the doctor who saved my leg and I said, Hey doc, I really appreciate you saving my leg and, and doing all these surgeries. But you know, it’s slowing me down. We just need to amputate it. I can’t live with this pain. And he did something that just changed it for me.
AL (00:22:32):
He put my leg in his, you know, usually they’ll put your leg on the table. And I thought, gosh, I can’t believe he’s putting my, my ugly leg on his clean white coat. And he looked at my leg like it was a masterpiece and just something shifted. And I thought, wow, if he can look at my leg like that, maybe I can learn to look at it like that too. And so every day I just started to love my leg for healing the way it did or, you know, enabling me to walk again, enabling me to train clients again. And so I think that sometimes when we have somebody believe in us or look at us differently and they see the significance in us, it allows us to start to look at the significance if we can’t see it yet. And so that’s why I think it’s really important.
AL (00:23:36):
You know, I’ve heard the same success leads clues. When I started getting asked more and more to share my story because it was genuinely helping people and inspiring them and giving them hope. I said, well, how can I make myself better? How can I learn more? And I just dove into, you know, getting better and every way, spiritually physically, I already worked really hard on physically trying to get better, but mentally, emotionally. And then I started getting to my surprise, getting asked to speak at like bigger events. And then then I thought, well, I think I wanna do this thing. I think I, you know, somebody said, you know, you should write a book. And I thought, well, maybe I could make a bigger impact. If I wrote a book, it wouldn’t be one person at a time. Maybe just, maybe somebody would read this and I could share how I got through all of the struggles and it would help them get through some adversity they might be going through too.
AL (00:24:41):
And so that’s what made me decide to write a book. But I think that, you know, if we think about some of the things that we love doing, what brings us joy, I love people being with people, brings me joy, being with people and seeing the transformation in them. Ooh, that’s my favorite thing. And so when we think about what brings us joy, what we’re really good at those questions that people ask us all the time and it doesn’t have to be even people in your real life. What are people on social media asking? Yeah. Like what are people asking you in DMS over and over for me? Because at the time I didn’t have social media, I just went on what people were asking me like in real life at the gym, you know, when I would walk down the street. And then as I got to be on social media, I started really paying attention even more to what people were asking and I’ll never forget AJ.
AL (00:25:38):
I had this. So I was doing this big event. Like I was speaking at this event and we all gave away, you know, a, a free gift. Well, I was like, well, I’ve got a gratitude journal. I’m giving away. Like I’m, I’m living large. I’m giving away a gratitude journal and it’s even downloadable
AL (00:26:48):
But but you know, it’s like, he’s like, well, that’s the beauty. You don’t really know what you’re doing. And I still don’t. I think we’re all, I I’m just still trying to figure it out. That’s why I listen to your podcast so I can learn that the latest, you know, tricks and tips, but I think it,
AJV (00:27:07):
You have it figured out it’s everyone else who doesn’t have it figured out. And I say that sincerely and we, you know, over the last six months our company brand builders group has been going through our own reinvention and we just launched what we call B BG 2.0, because we’ve really spent the better part of this year, 2022 of refocusing on who we wanna serve, who we are as a company. And honestly, what do we think that we’re the best in the world at and as a part of its startup. And when we’re all getting started, it’s just, we do whatever you have to do. And you know, many people just stay on that track. And I really felt through a course of a, a variety of different events this year, that we needed a reentering back on the heart of who we are back on our uniqueness, back on what makes us different back on what’s made us who we are.
AJV (00:28:03):
And you said something and that I just wanna touch on for a minute, because I think where you have it figured out that truly no one else does is you learned the power of your surroundings. And most of us don’t learn that you see that the challenge that I see with so many people today is what they’re looking for is an audience. And an audience is just another way of saying a collection of individuals. And what we really need to be saying is how do I reach an individual? And people wanna see numbers, not people. And you saw people and people saw you. And for anyone who wants to build their personal brand, you know, build their reputation, grow their business. They need to focus on the people that are already in front of them.
AL (00:28:58):
Mm-Hmm,
AJV (00:28:58):
AL (00:29:24):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (00:29:25):
And it’s really them
AL (00:29:31):
Well, you know, I was just at, I spoke at a friend’s mastermind. That was, it was beautiful. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Sundance, but I had never been to Sundance. And it was in Sundance, Utah, AMA beautiful. And when I’m at, at events, I’m, I am there for the people like I am there the whole time. And when I’m speaking at any event, I don’t just go and speak on stage and leave. I am there to meet people because I love people. And I’m there to be all in. Like my schedule’s blocked out. I’m not taking a bunch of call. Like I am there. And even my family knows, like when I’m at an event, I’m there. And unless like, you know, I I’ll talk to him at night, but during the day I’m like, if it’s an emergency, call me twice, you know, otherwise. And so this last event, I was speaking on a panel and my phone rang twice and I answered it and my husband was like, see, I told you she would answer it if you
AJV (00:30:40):
A test drill. Yes,
AL (00:30:42):
That’s a
AJV (00:30:42):
Test.
AL (00:30:43):
But yeah, but I’m, I am there and for the people,
AJV (00:30:49):
But that quite honestly is what most people are missing today. I really do believe that it’s like, you know, we talk a lot about online marketing and social media and funnels and webinars at brand builders group. But to be really honest and transparent, where we shine is in the offline reputation, everything that we can attest to in our entire business and why brand builders group even exists has nothing to do with podcasting or email lists or social media or websites or design. It has to do with long standing offline relationships that we spent time and years, years nurturing and building and pouring into and giving to give, not to receive. And because of those relationships is how everything else came a lot. And it’s no different than what you’ve done. It’s like you became known in the gym and then they’re like, well, I need you to know other people. And then those people are like, and I need you to know other people. And it’s like the real magic isn’t that
AL (00:31:56):
It sure is. And I mean, AJ, that’s how we met. Yeah. I had like three people saying, oh, do you know AJ? You same got to meet AJ. You have, she’s amazing. You just have to meet her. So by the third person, I was like, who is this AJ? But the
AJV (00:32:13):
Same happened to me. It was like, like, it was like, it was like, just like the, world’s like, you know, colliding of all these different relationships. But I think that’s, that’s the beauty of what I love about this part of your story is it’s people got to know you and it’s through relationships and it’s, you know, it’s through all these things that it’s trust, right? It’s like, it’s like, I know that, you know, know, I love what you said. It’s like my goodness, if she can do it, I can do it. I think about, I have, I have a girlfriend who has quadruplets that are six months older than my oldest. And when she got pregnant with quadruplets, she had an 18 month old and every single day where I have a hard mom day, I’m like, I have two, she has five, I have two, she has five. And it’s like, she can do it. I can figure this out. I’ve only got two. And it doesn’t mean that it’s not hard, but it’s like, that’s what she is for me and motherhood of. But that would never happen if there wasn’t a relationship. Mm-Hmm
AL (00:33:31):
Oh, thank you. Can I just hang out with you all day?
AJV (00:33:35):
Please feel I like it though. But it’s like, I think that is really important. And then you, and I love what you said and it’s like, then I said, well, you know, if I write a book, I can reach more than just one person mm-hmm
AL (00:34:02):
I love this question.
AJV (00:34:05):
I have my own thoughts of love, hate relationship with the publishing world. But I would love to hear your take on like okay, for all of you out there, here’s what you need to know. If you wanna write a book and you actually want people to read it. So,
AL (00:34:22):
Okay. If you wanna write a book and you actually want people to read it, you actually have to start writing today. Like make a commitment that you’re gonna do it, decide, and then get out your notebook. Look, I didn’t even have a computer when I started and I would get discouraged along the way. And I would have that soundtrack going on in my head. Like who do you think you are? Like, who cares about what you have to say? Like you’re not smart enough. You don’t have a college degree. Like all the things I would tell myself, but then I would focus on this. Isn’t about me. This is about who I can serve. And maybe this is really going to help someone cuz I don’t ever want anybody be to be in that dark place that I was in, where I was thinking, you know, my kids could find another mom.
AL (00:35:15):
My husband could, you know, find another wife. I don’t want anybody to ever have to feel that way. But mostly I don’t want anybody to ever feel like they’re they’re alone. You know that they, you know, pain tends to isolate and isolation for me led to addiction. And so whatever I could do, that’s why I wrote my book like that. You can get through hard times, but I would say start writing there. There’s so many ways to do a book. You, whether it’s hybrid, whether it’s self, whether it’s traditional, you have to decide how fast do you want your book to get out there? So talking about, you know, people again, I got my publishing deal through people. I had a friend of mine that invited me to, you know, go to this conference that was all for authors and there was gonna be publishers there and literary agents.
AL (00:36:07):
And I’ll just make this a quick story. But this goes back to how you treat people. I thought, well, you know, it was, the ticket was only like I think 50 bucks to go. I’m like, how good can this conference be? Like, you know, but that’s what was my thought? How can it be that good? It’s only $50, you know? So we go, it’s in LA and we get there and I’m getting in the elevator and I see this guy running to the elevator. So I hold the door open for him and he’s in a suit and he’s kind of got a sweaty brow and he goes, oh, thank you so much. I’m running late. And I’m like, sure. And we start talking in the elevator. So I get up to the conference, he’s got a table, he’s a publisher. So I walk up and I’m like, oh, he goes, thanks for holding the door for me.
AL (00:36:57):
And I said, you’re welcome. I said, you’re a publisher. He said, are you an author? I said, well I have a manuscript. He goes, well, let me see what it is. So I got my foot in the door by holding the elevator door. I love that story so much. And you know, I, at the end of this conference, you know, if you’re, if you’re writing a book, you can either do a book proposal. You can have a literary agent, you can self-publish and you get your book out there a lot faster. But they had these booths set up and it was like speed dating for authors. And we would go sit in the booth and we would have like a minute to pitch our book. Well, I didn’t even have a title to my manuscript yet. I just, I had some stuff typed out that I had with me, no title.
AL (00:37:45):
So it was a long day, 12 hours in, I hadn’t had anything to eat and I’m going to try to pitch this. I’m like, I’m doing it, man. I’m get in front of every publisher. I’m get in front of these literary agents. I’m gonna pitch this thing. Even though I don’t have a title, I get to the very end. It’s that publisher. And I sit down in front of him and I just, I collapse and I’m I’m I got tears in my eyes and he, he said, well, did you bring me something I can read? And I said, no. He said, well, why not? And I said, well, I don’t have a title yet. I don’t feel like it’s good enough. Like I just opened up to him. He said, you know what? Here’s a book. How to write a proposal. He gave me a book on how to write a proposal.
AL (00:38:27):
He sent me on his way with his business card. So I had his number and I gave him my business card. My phone rings about a week later. He’s like Amberly. And I see it’s a New York city area code. I’m like, Ooh, this is New York city. I better answer this. That’s awesome. Like hello? And I had told him if he was ever in LA, please let me know. I’d love to have him and his wife over to dinner. So he calls it’s him and I’m like, Hey Terry. I said, oh, I said, are you in town? I said, I I’d love to have you and your wife over for dinner. He said, no Amberly. I wanna read your manuscript. Like, he’s like, no, duh, I inviting him over for dinner. He’s like, no, I wanna read your manuscript. So I ended up sending it to him.
AL (00:39:15):
I got the book deal. They weren’t a huge publisher. So I know I knew I needed. Thankfully one of my clients was a, a really, she was an editor, a successful editor. And she said, Amber, you don’t have a great publisher. So you need a really good publicist to vet your book. So there’s two ways of doing it. You can self, I think you can self-publish and you can get your book out in a month. I mean, it’s quick. Get it on Amazon. If you’ve got a huge following on social media with a connected audience, and they’re just waiting for the day that you publish that book, self-publish, you know, you could hire, invest in a publicist and get connected who knows to major media, whether it’s TV show, big podcasts like AJS or you know, or you can do the traditional publishing as or hybrid.
AL (00:40:12):
I did hybrid publishing. And it takes longer. I mean, it took a year, but for me that was a good fit. I think we’re all different. And you have to go with, whatever’s a good fit for you for me, because I was so brand new. I, I had not built up my platform at all. And I had one goal. I had a year of the publishing process to when it was like they had the manuscript where it was edited, cover designed and all of that. And a year I thought, well, that was back when you know, you could do a swipe up. And I thought, well, I wanna build my audience on Instagram to like 10,000 so I can do a swipe up. So for one year I did not ask for anything. I provided value, value value, as much as I could. I gave, I created free playbooks workbooks, a free gratitude journal.
AL (00:41:08):
I was doing whatever, you know, a resilience challenge, a free webinar, seriously for free for a year. Then when it came time for my book to launch, I was like, I, I took my audience on that journey with me. Yeah. So it wasn’t like they didn’t see the behind the scenes of how freaked out I was or the struggle or whatever. Like they were with me when I opened my box of books for the first time my daughter videoed it and I wasn’t expecting, but I started crying when you’ve worked so hard on the book and you see it for the first time I cried and that’s on video. And so my audience was there with me. And to me it doesn’t feel like audience, to me, it feels like family. Like there are people that I literally connect with every single day. And you know, a lot of people didn’t understand why I was on social media.
AL (00:42:02):
They’re like, why are you on social media? Why is it so important? And I had this plan and my big vision was yes, I wanted to be able to swipe up. But I also, and I don’t know really how I thought this out or knew this, but I thought I wanted to build genuine relationships through social media because when it came time to planning my book tour, I wanted to be able to actually meet the people that I connected with in person. And that’s what happened. And it wasn’t until my husband saw that and he saw somebody, I was at the LA conference center and this girl comes running across the conference center with her suitcase, her roll on her carry-on suitcase. And she’s got tears coming down her face. She had read my book. She flew from Australia to come me at this conference. And that was the first time that my husband was like, wow, I guess that whole connecting through social media actually works. And I’m like, yeah, I’ve built some amazing relationships. So that’s when he kind of got it.
AJV (00:43:10):
But you know what you said there, and you’ve said this a couple of times that I, I think this is like a really good point to like bring up is, I mean, you’ve said earlier, it’s like ask who you can serve. Then you said, when that gentleman said, who does your marketing? You said, no, I just, you need to listen to your audience. And then you just said, my audience is more like family. I connect with them every day. So much of everything that you talk about is about the who. And so, you know, as, as we’re kind of rounding up here and I’m, I’m sensitive to the time, but how did you find your audience? Like how did you know? Cause I think that’s something people really struggle with. And quite honestly, I think people ultimately focus on the, what should I be doing and how do I get more followers? And you know, how do I do this versus going, who do I wanna serve? Who is the ideal audience for my message? Who should I be reaching? And so one, how did you figure out the who for you? And then how would you say other people can do that?
AL (00:44:12):
Well, I think that’s such a great question. And for me, I started just, I think that it’s really important to stay true to who you are and not try to be like somebody else that you might see on social media or, or, you know, your neighbor next door, whoever you have to be true to you. And I started just sharing like really, like, I don’t have a lot of things planned out. Like I share what’s actually going on with me, what I’m working through. I, I share the struggles along the way and how I got through it. So maybe it’ll help somebody else. And so on social media, I, I mean, I’ve shared things that my husband’s like, oh my God, like actually when I wrote my book and he read the back of the jacket, he said, oh my God, they wrote on here survivor of sexual abuse. Did you see that? And I’m like, yeah, I write about sexual overcoming sexual abuse in the book. You might wanna read it. Like, sorry I talk about it. So I talk about things and again, sharing from a scar,
AJV (00:45:22):
Read the book, read the book. Yeah. Yeah.
AL (00:45:25):
But you know, sharing from a scar and not an open wound. Yeah. But I think sharing what you know mm.
AJV (00:45:34):
I think that that’s worth just pausing and let people soak in, share what, you know, anyone who suffers from imposter syndrome, in my opinion, is sharing from a place of where they don’t feel like they know anything. And they feel like you feel like you’re an imposter, cuz you’re sharing from a place that’s not authentic to you. And it’s like share what, you know,
AL (00:45:57):
You always go back to your truth. Yeah. If you feel stuck, always go back to your truth. And I mean, that’s something actually my friend when I was, I was feeling like I got this big speaking gig and my friend Henry Amar, I was like, oh man, Henry, do you ever get nervous? And he is like, he goes, yes. You know, but you know what? The best advice I could give you is always go back to your truth. So if you’re ever stuck, you’re ever like, I don’t know what to say. Or even if you’re on stage speak, like always go back to your truth. You know the truth. I always heard that saying the truth will set you free. Well, it’s easy when you’re just honest, then you don’t have to overthink stuff cuz you’re just being you.
AJV (00:46:41):
Yeah. I love that. And it’s I yeah. And I think too, all of that, it’s like when you share what, you know, it’s like a part of that is you’re finding your audience, but they’re also finding you. Right. Mm-hmm but that’s when you share what you know, and you are authentic to yourself, I think there’s a part of that where you naturally start attracting people. We talk about this a lot. It’s be a magnet, not a megaphone, right? Yeah. And it’s like, or the more authentic you can be, you, you know, it’s like, it’s sometimes it’s good to be a little polarizing. Right. It’s like you attract the right people and you repel the wrong ones at at least the wrong ones for you. Right. Mm-hmm
AL (00:47:25):
I was gonna say, yeah, you don’t have to be everybody’s cup of tea, you know, which is kinda hard for, you know, I’m an overcoming people pleaser and I just want, oh, I want everybody to be happy. Well, you, you can’t do, you don’t have to be everybody’s cup of tea. You can be somebody’s, you know, I don’t know, shot of whiskey. I don’t know.
AJV (00:47:48):
But you know, that’s true. It’s I, I think that it, again, it’s like there’s an audience for anyone and anything, but it’s really hard to attract an authentic audience if you’re not being authentic and that’s really, and
AL (00:48:03):
I think you can feel that with, I know I can’t like you can sense when something’s not quite right.
AJV (00:48:09):
Yeah. I love that. So, so what would you say is like, what’s the one thing that you would suggest for someone to do? Who’s going all right. Well, how do I know who this audience is? Like I don’t, I don’t know. It’s like I, what I hear from people all the time is, well it’s everybody, my message pertains to everybody.
AL (00:48:28):
No, you know what I think I focus on, like for, I would say, and I mean, I’m no expert in this, but what I did to really start attracting, you know, my people, my friends is I focus. I’m not all over the place. You know, I focus on, you know, fitness mindset overcoming pain being a mom, like some things like things that other people relate to, maybe when you’re as big as somebody like, you know, Jay Shetty or Mel Robbins, that you can talk about everything under the sun. And I think that’s what a lot of people look to is people that already have millions of followers and yeah, they’ve been doing it for a long time. Yeah. And they have big teams and they may be able to talk about more things. And, but I think that when you get known for one thing, then you can kind open it out and focus on other things. But I think it’s really important to be known for one thing and start getting some traction there that’s at least what I did anyway. I was like, I started getting known for being that girl who you know, was the grit girl. I, then I started paying attention. People were hashing me, resilience queen and grit girl and stuff like that. And I’m like, oh, resilience queen. I kinda like that. You know, grit girl
AJV (00:49:59):
AL (00:50:01):
I’ll I’ll take it. You know? And I started paying attention to like what, what people were were saying in meantime, I’m just focusing on sharing what I know, not going too off topic, like sticking to what my truth is being completely authentic. Sometimes my husband’s like, you are way, you’re say like, you’re saying way too much. Like really do you have to share all of that? But
AJV (00:51:25):
Not your audience.
AL (00:51:27):
They were not, I was not their cup of tea.
AJV (00:51:30):
AL (00:51:54):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (00:52:07):
But it’s a sign of being truly authentic. And I think there’s, I think we all need a little bit more of that. I bet one of the biggest conversations that I have with people who who have been really successful in business, but don’t have really big followings and now they really wanna transition into doing something more about sharing a message. They’re like, wow, just, I wanna make sure that, you know, I don’t rub anyone the wrong way. And I’m like, well then you’re not gonna be able to tell 95% of your story. Mm-Hmm
AL (00:52:51):
Mm-Hmm
AJV (00:52:56):
Alright. Well, okay. So I know that we’re a little bit over, but I have just two, two quick, last things. And before we wrap up, I wanna make sure everyone knows how to connect with you. So for everyone listening, if you love this conversation, I would just highly, highly encourage you guys. You need to get the true grit, grace book. You guys need to check out this podcast. Amber Lee just launched a mastermind called the unstoppable life mastermind. You can find all of those things plus all of her, you know, online platforms that she’s a part [email protected]. Right? So Amber Lee lago.com. I’ll put that in the show notes, we’ll put links for the book. We’ll put links for all the things you can just access ’em really quickly. But just to wrap this up, and this has nothing to do with like a conversation in general, but I just love to ask people just some questions for one to help us get to know you. But also I just find if these things are helpful to me then most definitely they’re gonna be helpful to someone else. So three quick questions, right? And these, I
AL (00:53:55):
Love it
AJV (00:53:56):
As shorter, as long as you want, what’s one book that you would recommend universally to any human on the planet,
AL (00:54:04):
The four agreements,
AJV (00:54:06):
The four agreements. Love it. Okay.
AL (00:54:09):
That’s a great gift book too. It’s just, yeah. Simple. Good. Yeah.
AJV (00:54:14):
Okay. Then my next question would be, if there was one lesson that you have learned since really building your personal brand, being an author, podcaster speaker, you know, all the things, what’s the one lesson that you hold closest to your heart.
AL (00:54:34):
Mm. I would say to, to really listen to your gut I know that’s probably so weird and you’ve probably not had anybody say that before, like, but to listen to your gut, because I think, you know, as my brand kind of grew a lot of distractions come along with that and a lot of amazing opportunities come sometimes and some that are not so amazing, some that they really want to use your brand to build their audience, which is, which is normal, you know, like that, that happens. And there’s one thing that I did like early on that I started getting some traction and, you know, getting some followers and I had this, this brand of like teeth whitening thing that they sent me the teeth whitening and they wanted me to advertise it on my Instagram. And I was like, oh, never done that, but send me the kit and I’ll try it.
AL (00:55:33):
If it works, you know, I’ll share about it. And it wasn’t something that I did a lot and I wasn’t known for like promoting things ever. Like I don’t, I was not known. I mean, it took a year for me to promote my book. Like I was just, not that I wasn’t like that typical like person that was just like, buy this, buy that that’s just not me. And so I advertised the teeth whitening, but I tried to play it all into like, you know, how important smile is? I don’t know, blah, blah, blah. I lost so many followers that day. Like people were just like, oh God really she’s gonna do that. Now she’s getting paid to, so that was a very valuable lesson to me because now even like with my podcast, I committed to like going all in for like, gosh, almost two years with no advertisements.
AL (00:56:30):
I was like, I just, I’m gonna add value. So people start to listen and they know I’m serious about showing up and giving ’em value. And I just had somebody reach out for a sponsorship and I was like you know, I have to try this and I have to really love the products. And if I really love it, then we’ll talk about a sponsorship. Well, I really love the product, but I’m still kind of like, I did the advertisement and I genuinely love the products, but is that the route I want to go? So I think it’s important to listen to your gut and know that you
AJV (00:57:07):
Can know your audience,
AL (00:57:08):
Know your audience. Yeah. And, and how important it is to like stick to, you know, like your brand and your audience and not be distracted by some shiny object, or this would be good. It’s like it’s for the long haul, like think of it for the long haul. And so that’s what I think about is like, listen to my gut and think of it for the long
AJV (00:57:31):
Haul. Yeah. It’s like, don’t get distracted by the shiny things that you can take you off the path. That’s good. Love that last one. Amber, do you want to be known for,
AL (00:57:47):
I want to be known really as someone who is I, this, the first thing that came to mind is like you know, compassionate and a connector. I love connecting people. I think that sometimes we don’t kind of know sometimes that we have a gift at doing something until it keeps showing up in our life. And for some reason I love connecting people. Like I have an eye for going, oh my gosh, you would be awesome meeting this person. And so I’ve whether it’s, you know, a group of sober sisters or a group of badass, you know, female entrepreneurs, that’s one of the reasons I started my mastermind is cuz I love connecting people. And I think that when we connect with one another, that’s how we both, we all grow, you know, when we do things to together. And so I believe in abundance and there’s so much for us to, to have, you know, such a life of success and that we can all thrive. And so I guess I would like to be known as the kind connector how’s that
AJV (00:59:03):
Take it. I love it. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for being on the show. This has been such a delight. There’s so many nuggets. Like I literally wrote down like 10 different like one liners and just little nuggets.
AL (00:59:18):
This is okay. I have to ask you a quick question. Just a quick question. When I talk to you, like y’all I love talking to AJ, but when I see you online, it’s like your eyes are these piercing. Like it’s so much fun to look at you online. Are you looking at the, this is a branding question, like an event question. Are you looking through the camera or are you looking in the screen
AJV (00:59:42):
At the camera?
AL (00:59:45):
AJV (00:59:53):
Gonna take,
AL (00:59:54):
I’m gonna take a sticky note and I’m gonna put it on my computer that I need to okay. See the difference.
AJV (01:00:00):
How are you? And I do, and this is a little tip for anyone who’s does a lot of camera where it’s like, it can be really annoying sometimes to look at this little dot when I see like your face, like kind of off to the side. So I make your picture really small and I put it right underneath the camera.
AL (01:00:15):
Oh.
AJV (01:00:16):
And so it’s like, I’m I can always see you and your facial expressions right below. And so, although I’m, it’s so good exactly. At the camera. You’re right in my peripheral. So I can see your facial expressions. I can see you move. But that’s always really important to me because I wanna make sure that I’m making eye contact with whoever’s be block’s
AL (01:00:38):
So good. Okay. I’m looking at you now. And I have to say you were incredible when you came to speak at, at the mastermind, people are still talking about all you shared. That was the best presentation by far I’ve ever had in the mastermind. You’re slides, everything. You’re just such a pro and I’m so grateful for you and even doing this podcast interview, I’m like, okay, Ambery I’m doing a virtual event tonight. And thank goodness we did this interview cuz I’m looking at the camera now
AJV (01:01:13):
So I love that. Cause that’s cause it’s a really important thing. It’s like I noticed too when other people it’s like, I know that they’re not looking at me. And when you know, I watch videos, I wanted to feel like you’re looking at me.
AL (01:01:24):
Yeah, yeah. I
AJV (01:01:25):
Have that connection. But it’s it can be really distracting. And I was also like, why does she look so good? Why is her hair and makeup so good today? So you’re doing a virtual event tonight. It’s like part of it is like, I can’t look at myself cause I’m like, oh God, like she looks like she’s all like dressed up. You look. So you look so good. Thank you.
AL (01:01:42):
I have on my workout pants on the bottom.
AJV (01:01:45):
AL (01:01:56):
It’s so sweet. Oh my
AJV (01:01:57):
Gosh. We love you. We are such a fan of you and y’all if this is your first introduction to Amber Lee Lago, y’all need to go follow her. Subscribe to this podcast again. Amber Lee lago.com. Check her out, check out the book. It is just it’s nonstop. Awesome. So we’re so grateful for you on this show. Thank you so much. And for everyone listening, we love you. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand. We’ll see you later.
Ep 331: How to be Comfortable Selling High Dollar Offers with Ian Koniak | Recap Episode
RV (00:02):
Love, love, love hearing the true success stories of our clients who, you know, get to the point to where they’ve reached such a level of expertise that we can have on our podcast to share with you. And that’s what this Ian Cognac interview was all about. I mean, I, if you haven’t heard it, I mean, it’s so inspiring. He, he joined Brand Builders Group three years ago, y’all, three years ago, and three years later he’s doing almost, he’s gonna do about one and a half million dollars in revenue his first full year in business. So the first two years he was with us, he had a, he had a job, he had a day job, He was doing the stuff. We were teaching him on the side, he was building up. And then, man, and, and then, you know, he, he, it was time to leave.
RV (00:49):
He left, he executed, he’s followed the playbook and almost one and a half million dollars in revenue. He’s at 1.2 million right now, 10 months into his first year full year. And he’s gonna do about a million and a half dollars, is what he told me. That is inspiring. And that could be you that could be you. Like, and can we guarantee it? No, we can’t guarantee it. Like, we can’t guarantee those results for everybody. But I guarantee you that everything that we teach and talk about works, it always works. Eventually it works. The question is just when and how fast and on what magnitude and what scale. I was telling our internal team this morning you know, we just, we just had our client, another client of ours, Eric Thomas, et the hip hop preacher, just, we, we ran his whole book launch with him and his team and start to finish, manage the entire thing.
RV (01:41):
We hit the New York Times Best Sellers list. And I was telling our team that the playbook we run for Eric Thomas is the same playbook that we run for someone who is a first time self published author with zero followers. It’s the same playbook. It always works. The only difference is the magnitude of the results. And so this stuff works. And anyways, just so invigorating to see one of our clients like Ian succeeding. But I mean, we have a, we need to start like a little seven figure club at Brand Builders Group because you know, Lisa Woodruff and Candy Valenti and Anton Gun, like, we have a, we have a large group of clients that have gone to seven figures, like within a couple years of working with us, which is really, really awesome. So anyways, the conversation was around sales and specifically I titled that episode, How to Be Comfortable Selling High Dollar Offers because that’s what Ian has done.
RV (02:37):
If, again, if you haven’t listened to the interview we’ve known him for years. He sold for RICO business products, and then he was the number one salesperson worldwide at Salesforce selling million dollar deals. And he made over seven figures a year in income there. So and then he became a brand builders group client, and is now, you know, doing his personal brand doing sales coaching, specifically B2B sales coaching. So if you’re someone who sells business to business, like you sell to other companies, Ian is one of the people that we, we recommend. So if you go to brand builders group.com/ian cognac, that’s K O N I K you can, excuse me, you can check that out and learn about what he’s up to. It’s just, he’s literally like the, one of the best in the world, and that’s what he’s, that’s what he’s teaching people to do.
RV (03:28):
So I love that. Now I’m gonna share with you three of my takeaways things that I was reminded of. Obviously, sales is something we spend a lot of our time doing. We don’t focus, Brand builders group doesn’t focus so much on teaching B2B sales. We don’t focus so much on selling to companies. We do teach people how to book keynotes. Sell keynotes is something we do really, really well. But outside of selling keynotes, most of our curriculum is around selling business to consumer and directly to an end person to get them to buy. But in our former life, you know, with the way that AJ and I met was, we started a company that was sales coaching and sales col co consulting. And we exclusively sold sales training to companies. And that was an eight figure business that we sold in 2018.
RV (04:12):
And so we, we know a lot about sales, but these days most of what we teach is selling B to C business to consumer. And so I’m gonna, I’m gonna share with you three of my highlights, three of my re reminders that I got from Ian, and, you know, just kind of like triggered things that I wanna share with you specifically for selling high dollar offers, B to c business to consumer. Because, you know, we, we talked about a lot of things in that interview, b2b, b2c, enterprise sales, It all applies. But here in this recap, I’m gonna talk about three things that really are going to help you sell high dollar offers and feel comfortable selling high dollar offers, offers. And by being comfortable, I mean, not feeling slimy, not feeling sleazy and, and just being confident. And yeah. So these are really, really important.
RV (05:06):
All right, so number one, and this was a, this was a, a, I’m gonna use the words that Ian said here, I thought were eloquent, is he said, Make your number one intention helping your client achieve a goal rather than pitching your product. Like you wanna make your number one intention helping a client achieve a goal rather than pitching your product. And this, I I, I couldn’t agree more. Like, it’s almost like if you’re in a conversation with somebody and you’re focused on the sale, you’re gonna miss, you’re gonna, you’re gonna lose the relationship. You have to look past the sale. And almost like even when I’m talking to a prospect, like if I’m in an active sales conversation with somebody sales to me is not about talking somebody into something they don’t want. And it’s not about talking someone into, to something they
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Don’t need. Sales isn’t really talking people into anything. Sales is about understanding what is their current situation and does the thing I have help them accomplish the end result. So when I’m in an active conversation with a sales prospect, I’m like looking past the sale, meaning it’s almost like I’m, I’m, I’m listening to what they want to achieve in their life. And I’m saying, Okay, let’s pretend they actually bought. Let’s assume that they bought, if they were a customer of ours, right? Now, are we set up to help them achieve the thing they’re saying they want? That’s it. If we are, then the answer is, you gotta buy. Like, you need to sign up, like we’re, we’re gonna help you. If the answer is no, then it’s definitely not. And if the answer is unsure, I have to ask more questions. I have to listen until I get clear.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I can’t really help them get clear on whether or not we can help them until I’m a hundred percent clear. But it’s like, that’s why the more that we’ve gone on, the more specific our audience becomes, and the more we narrow in on what we are doing and we’re growing, we’re reaching more people by narrowing our focus. Like at brand builders, at our core, we help experts, right? We also help entrepreneurs and we can help executives. But our core business is, is like if you are an expert of any type, you’re a coach, consultant, speaker, author, a doctor, a lawyer, a chiropractor, you, you know, a financial advisor. Like if you are an expert person who wants to become more well known, meaning your business will grow, you will make more money, you will make more impact. You’ll, you’ll achieve your life mission by having more people know about you.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
If you’re an expert who wants to become more well known, and I say this as humbly as I can, you should give us your credit card and just sign up. Like, we are the best in the world at this. We are like, I, I just, we, we’ve we’re, we’ve done this so long in so well, in such a deep way that like, if you are an expert who’s trying to become more well known, you’re trying to reach more people, you’re trying to make more impact, like, we got you. Now, if you’re not that, then that’s where it’s like, yeah, we’re not set up, we’re not, you know, we’re not set up for you, right? Like, you, maybe we’re not the right fit. You know, it is a great example of this interview with Ian. If you are, if you’re an enterprise salesperson, if you’re a W two employee and you sell to other companies, brand builder’s group, we’re not your people.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Doesn’t mean you can’t learn stuff from us, You can, but I’d go, you should talk to Ian, like homeboy is the best in the world at this thing. Like all he did was sell companies like business to business products. So for you in your business, it’s about being super clear on what results can you help people experience? What goals can you help them accomplish? Somebody comes to us, they say, I wanna be a bestselling author. We go, Yep, give us your credit card. I wanna become, I wanna speak on more stages and bigger stages. Yep. Give us your credit card. I wanna get paid more money for speaking, coaching, consulting. Yep. Give us your money. I wanna generate more online leads for my, for my service based business. Yep. Give us your money. Like, I, I want to be, you know, I wanna grow my social media following, I wanna have a bigger podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I I want to I wanna scale my expert business. I want, you know, more automation. Give us your money. Like this is what we do and we’re gonna dominate for you. We, you gotta be clear on the results that you can deliver for people. If you wanna get clear on what your uniqueness is and what separates you from everyone else, give us your money. Like, that’s our flagship thing. Like, we do that so well. So what is the result that you provide for your clients? Like, it’s, it’s almost not even thinking about what do you do? Like we all think about what do I like, what do we do? And people say, What do you do for a living? I want you to think about for a second, just go, What are the results that I am capable of providing to somebody? And the more that you live in that world, you think in that world you talk in that world, you create videos about that world, you write copy in that world.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And then specific here, the more you have conversations in that world, like from that perspective of going, Okay, the person is talking to me, here are the results that I’m capable of helping them to deliver, are these the results that are on their checklist? Are these the results they’re pursuing? If they are, then it’s like, give me your money. Sign up. You’re crazy. Like you’re looking for a path that I have walked down. Come with me, let me show you the way. But if they’re not, then go, I’m not, I haven’t been down that path. I don’t know how to do that. You know, and try to try to point ’em to somebody else who can, right? I, I don’t think I would, I would not be the best person in the world to coach someone to be the number one enterprise B2B salesperson. I would definitely refer that person to Ian.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I’d be like, You should talk to my friend Ian. Like he’s got this dialed in now. You wanna launch a book, You wanna become a bestselling author? There’s nobody in the world that I could say legitimately no one in the world that could do that better than us. There’s a, there’s only a couple other people who I would say they know what they’re talking about. But like, less than five. So, and, and I would say that in many ways we’re, we’re, we’re one at least one of the best in the world. Same thing, You wanna Ted talk, you wanna grow your speaking career, you wanna grow your coaching, your information products, like, gosh, we’re your people. So get clear on that. But if you’re, if you’re focused on making the sale, you’re overlooking, you’re not looking at results, you’re just trying to make money.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And so it’s like you have to overlook the sale. But what I mean is look past the sale, assume that they were a client, Could you help them actually achieve what they’re asking? If yes, they should buy, if no, they should not. So I love when he said the, the, the intention of make it your number one intention to help your client achieve a goal rather than to pitch your product is so good, so good. The second thing I wanna talk to you about is called the Pressure Free promise. And this is a bit right out of our formal curriculum. So if you’re not yet a brand builders group client we have 14 topics in our, in our training program. Each of them is a different two day experience, but one of them is called Pressure Free Persuasion, which is our version of how we teach sales, the methodology that we call service centered selling.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And, and we have coined this whole new way of selling you know, all these proprietary frameworks. And one of the, one of the techniques in that program is called the pressure free promise. And the pressure free promise is all about releasing pressure in any sales environment. Like whether it’s one to one, one to many high dollar offer, low dollar offer, it’s one of the most powerful things you can do. It’s like, it’s such a tactical thing. And what is it? The pressure free promise is just promising people that no matter what happens, you are not gonna pressure them. That’s what the pressure free promise is, is saying that, Look, if I’m gonna show you, I’m gonna learn about what you need, and I’m gonna tell you about what we do, and if there’s a match, I’m gonna facilitate the process of you buying because it’s gonna be the right thing for you.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
If what we have does not fit what you need, I’m gonna facilitate the process of you saying no, and that’s okay. I’m gonna, my job is to help you decide what is best for you. My job is not to sell you. My job is, is I’m a matchmaker. So it, the pressure free promise is a mentality. It’s also an actual, like, literal phrase. But the the mentality is my job is a matchmaker. If this is a yes, I’m gonna help you move forward. If this is a no, I’m gonna help you say no, but I’m gonna help you get clear that it’s gonna be one of those. But I promise you, either way, I’m not gonna pressure you. That’s the mindset. It, and, and, and we’re articulating, we’re saying out loud, we’re telling people. And so it sounds like, it sounds, you know, some variation of this.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It doesn’t have to be verbatim, but it’s saying, you know what, You know, Lisa, what I wanna do today is I really wanna understand what you’re trying to accomplish, and then I’m gonna tell you a little bit about what we have. And if this is a good fit for you, then I’m gonna encourage you and I’m gonna show you how to sign up. If it is not though, I’m gonna encourage you not to sign up. Whether you buy or not is not my main concern. My main concern is figuring out if what we have is a good fit for you. And so, I promise either way, I’m very easy to say no to. I promise it’s okay if you don’t buy, I wanna let you know it’s okay to say no. That’s the pressure free promise. You’re, you’re, you’re promising them. We’re not gonna have pressure.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
We’re promising them. I’m not talking ’em into something. We’re, but, and we’re promising them clarity. Like what, what I’m really committed to in a sales conversation is clarity. It’s clarity about the match. I’m a matchmaker. If it’s a good match, I’m gonna tell you to buy it and I’m gonna help you do it. If it’s not, I’m gonna tell you no, I’m not afraid of a no. And this is the difference between a pressure, a service centered salesperson and a normal commissioned breast salesperson. I’m not afraid of a no, I don’t mind a no no is fine. I’m not trying for a, no, I don’t, It’s not that I want to, No, I want to, yes, but I’m not afraid of a no. I’m not resistant to a no. A yes is good. A yes is what I want. A no is fine. What I don’t want is maybe, maybe is unacceptable, maybe is not okay.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Allowing people to say maybe is a disservice, not just to you, It’s a disservice to them because if they say yes, they can powerfully move forward. If they say no, they can powerfully move forward. If they say, maybe we are both stuck, neither of us can move forward. We have allowed ourselves to be stuck in this indecisive limo. And that is where mediocrity breeds and thrives in the world of indecision, right? I’d rather make the wrong decision than live an indecision. I’d rather take the wrong action than live an inaction. I would rather make it a no than allow it to be a, maybe, maybe is disgusting, like maybe is despicable. I like, don’t hate the no, hate them. Maybe like I’m okay with them saying no. I’ll encourage ’em to say no. In fact, if they tell me, maybe I’m gonna make it a no cuz I don’t want maybe is not powerful, maybe is mediocre, maybe as marginal, maybe is stuck in a world of not making a difference.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It’s maybe as stuck in a world of inaction, maybe as I’m not doing anything great with my life, but I haven’t yet freed myself from being stuck in the middle to actually go out and do something. So I’m fine with no, I’m not okay with maybe, So you don’t say all that to them.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You give them permission to say yes. The moment you give them permission to say no is also the same moment that you give them permission to say yes. Because by allowing them the permission to tell you no, all their walls come down, all their, their relu, their sales resistance comes down, their, their buying reluctance comes down and all of their preconceived notions dissolve, and they can just have an open, honest conversation with you, which is what we both want, right? And so it’s, it’s about being service centered, not self centered. That’s what this is about. So that’s the pressure free promise. The third thing is turn your customer force into your sales force. This is the ultimate form of lead generation. The ultimate form of lead generation is turning your customer force into your sales force. How do you do that? It’s so simple.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Is it asking for referrals? Yes, we should ask for referrals, but it is by over delivering for your current customers. Like the best form of prospecting is helping your current customers succeed. The best form of prospecting new customers is loving on your current customers. When your new, your current customers succeed and thrive, then it makes referrals easy, which means the next sale is easy. But if your, your current customers aren’t succeeding or they’re not loving the program, or they’re not getting results, they’re not gonna tell anybody for you. But when they are, right? When you satisfy a customer, not just satisfy, but when you over satisfy, when you create a raving fan of your current customer, every customer becomes a salesperson. That typically happens much faster than recruiting and hiring and training a new salesperson. So turn your customer force into your sales force by overdelivering, loving on them, giving them more than they expect, giving them and, and, and just being consumed with the question, How can I help my clients succeed faster?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That’s what we want you to be focused on. That’s what we want you thinking about. How can I help you succeed faster? Not how can I make more money off of you, not how can I get, you know, more referrals from you? Like, those are fine things, but make your number one focus. How can I help you succeed faster? How can I will help you win better? And the way that we came up with our whole affiliate program was, I didn’t wanna sell to my friends. Like, I have all these friends who are speakers and authors who are very successful and they need a lot of ’em, frankly, need what we do or can benefit from. They may don’t need it. They can benefit a lot from what we can do. We can help them a lot, but I didn’t wanna have to sell to them.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
So it was like, great, well, what if we came up with an affiliate program where we paid them money for everyone they introduced to us, and then they could use that money to buy from us? Like John Gordon the author of the Energy Bus just became a brand builders group client, full fee, full paying client of ours. And we’re working with him on some sales stuff, right? Him and his team on, on scaling their, their sales team and, and scaling some of their, their high dollar offers. Well, John’s been a friend. John’s a mentor of mine. I don’t like, you know, I was like, Ah, I don’t really love trying to sell to, you know, my friends and mentors, but he referred so much business to us that he had all this money. And I said, Hey, John, like, we’re, you know, we can pay you this money, or, you know, you can, you can, you can pay it back to us and we can offer you some services.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And it was like done. And so everybody wins, right? So we came up with that by, by by, by being focused on how can we help others succeed? And that mindset, just by itself is what this is all about. That is what this personal brand journey is all about. How can I help others succeed? Not how can I get more followers, not how can I be more famous, not how can I make more money? How can I help others succeed? How can I help others get a result? How can I make a bigger impact in their life? That is what Brand Builders Group is all about. That’s part of our uniqueness. Like, like it or not, that’s who we are. And that’s what we are about. And, and if that is you, then you are what we call a mission driven messenger. And you should become one of our clients.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
We will rock your world
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Need, need more money, right? Like we, we need our clients to succeed. We need our clients to win. That is like the ultimate fulfillment and we get out of all business is seeing our clients win. So thanks for being here. Thanks for letting us be a part of hopefully helping you win in one way or another. Keep coming back, share this episode with somebody who wants to feel more comfortable selling High dollar offers. And we’ll see you next time on the Influential Personal Brand podcast.
Ep 330: How to be Comfortable Selling High Dollar Offers with Ian Koniak
RV (00:02):
I am so looking forward to this conversation with a friend of mine and AJ’s for years. His name is Ian Cognac, and he’s one of the best salespeople that we have ever come across. He, we actually, aj, AJ met him first before I did, and they became friends. He was a sales training client of ours and he at our former life, at our former company. And he had us doing some work with him, him, his team. He was one of the top sales people nationwide for a company called Rico, which was like selling copiers and, you know, sort of business office products and things like that. And then he left and went to Salesforce and so the, the big crm, Salesforce, and he was the number one enterprise account executive at Salesforce in the world. So he’s been a sales manager. He has been a top salesperson.
RV (00:56):
And then we started working with him again as a client here recently at Brand Builders Group a couple years ago. We want to hear a little bit about that story when Ian finally left sales and started his journey as an entrepreneur now in sales coaching, which is something that we don’t provide at Brand Builder’s group, like per se, as like cl classic sales coaching like we once did. And so anyways, I wanted to have Ian on for you to meet him and teach us some tips and tools for how we can sell more in our businesses. So, Ian, welcome to the show, Brother. It’s been a long time coming,
IK (01:32):
Rory, it’s so good to be here. And I just wanna say thank you for enrolling me in 2019. I, I joined Brand Builders in April. You were just starting out in, since then, It’s been over three years and I, I’ve quit my job. I’m a full-time solo entrepreneur and now I get the privilege of, you know, helping people learn to sell in a way that has high integrity and purpose and connected to what they want most. And it really is because of, you know, a big part of it is because of following the playbook of Brand Builders Group and the work we’ve done. I’ve been working with your, you, you and your, your partners for, for over three years now, and you’re doing great work. So it’s great to connect as a guest and a testim testimony to, to the work we’ve done together.
RV (02:15):
Man, that’s awesome. Like what Give, it was a sense of what, what is your business doing this year? Cuz it’s like, so when you first started working with us, you, you had a job, so you were making a bunch of money cuz you were top. We’re gonna talk about that in a second, but then like just on that note for a second, how has your business evolved and like, give us a sense of the scope of the business that you’re up to now, three years into it?
IK (02:37):
Yeah, so, so at first it was really about like, who do I wanna serve? What, what is my brand positioning statement? Who are, who are my icp? What, what am I gonna do? And it was really about creating that audience. So I, I spent the better part of 2019, 2020 really just kind of figuring it out and doing a side hustle, if you will, coaching. I wasn’t ready to walk away from a seven figure income per se, in, in sales. And I’m supporting my family and couple kids. I’m the, the breadwinner for my, for my household. And so, yeah, I was very nervous and I, I remember you, you said to me, you said, Just go for it, Ian, you’re gonna be fine. And I, I, I just wasn’t ready to just go all in yet. So the first two years was really about building an audience and kind of proving out the model.
IK (03:17):
I was doing private coaching and then I decided to deploy the same program which brand builders taught, which is having three levels of membership. So I deployed a one year membership model where I call it bronze, silver, and gold coaching through my platform, which is untapped your sales potential. And through that the gold is private coaching with me. The group the silvers group coaching in, in the bronze is online coaching and online access. So I’ve built a amazing portal with all kinds of training modules. I meet with a mastermind every week where we have live events and group calls and I do private coaching for my most exclusive clients at, wanna work with me one on one. Just to give you some numbers, the business already is surpassed seven figures and we are just in October right now for my first full year as a solar
RV (04:03):
Show. Wow.
IK (04:05):
Yeah, it’s doing, it’s going great. I got, I got 70 paying clients, 20 in gold 50 in silver and I haven’t even launched the bronze yet. So this is all, yeah, it’s all happening very quickly and it’s very exciting for me.
RV (04:17):
Man, that’s amazing. So seven figures in your first full year well that’s awesome. So, Well thank you for that. Thanks for sharing that. And you know, I I, I remember if you’re listening and you’re a client of, of brand builders, you know, we teach the content diamond, which is like our social media strategy where we talk about answer one question every week on social media, on video, just five to seven minutes and just do it over and over and over. And we’d always tell people like, if you’ll just do this, if you just buy into this and you just follow the process, like it will work. It never doesn’t work, it always works. It’s just a question of when, and you started posting videos on LinkedIn in 2019, and I remember you’re getting eight views and six views and you did that relentlessly. And I don’t know how many views your videos are getting now, but I saw that you recently were ranked as like the number one LinkedIn sales star by sales success media, like, and so you’ve just been doing that one thing relentlessly.
IK (05:23):
Yeah. Content market is how many and
RV (05:24):
How many views are you getting now on those videos?
IK (05:27):
I’m averaging per post 30,000 views per,
RV (05:30):
Oh my
IK (05:30):
Gosh, that’s not, I’m, yeah,
IK (06:17):
In the beginning it was like, okay, just stay consistent, stay consistent, gradually built up. And, and what happened is the, for anyone who’s thinking of building brand and has like their own business still that they’re, you know, employed at corporate or whatever, I would say start the audience building now. Cuz when I was finally ready to launch my platform, it was in May of 2022. So I’d been building my brand for three years up, up to that point since joining Brand Builders. And when I launched my private coaching, the gold coaching sold out in two days, all spots, ah, and then the silver sold 50 seats. So I, I had over a half a million dollar launch as a result of, you know, building this audience. So people say it’s like the tip of the iceberg, you’re only seeing the tip, but what was beneath it in this case was consistent content posting every single week for three years prior to that launch.
IK (07:06):
And when you finally have a product, you’ve established that reputation, you established trust. Here’s the best part, and I don’t know a single person in the world who’s done this. If you know someone, please tell me. But the launch occurred without any sales calls. So everyone spent either 6,000 or $12,000 online in paying via credit card. Wow. No sales team. So that’s, that’s really what I was most proud of is the fact that there had been so much trust established that people were gonna pay 12,000 without even talking to me or having a sales person to talk to about the program. So it really does work when you’re consistent and when you’re answering the right questions and solving the right problems that people actually face and care about.
RV (07:44):
Yeah, I love that man. And, and so it was once, so you did it once a week for three years, so like 150 videos, and then by the time you were ready to like, make the jump and do this, you sold half a million bucks in the first launch.
IK (07:58):
Yeah, that’s right. And, and, and the other thing I started doing is I, I actually hired somebody in 2022, you know, I think it was probably February-ish working with him six or seven months. And he took my top performing videos and my top performing content and he think of them as a ghost writer, but he reposes and rewrites some of this stuff. It almost almost sounds like me. So he helps me. So now I’ve gotten to the point where I do probably two or three original posts, one video and a couple texts, some, sometimes some pictures on LinkedIn per week. And then he’ll fill in the gaps. So I’m actually posting seven days a week now. So my content volume has gone up to daily on LinkedIn and I’ve seen a dramatic increase in traffic from when I posted once a week to when I’m doing posting daily now. So my, my followers is up to 30,000 on LinkedIn and the view is the engagement is, is really high as well. So it’s been, it’s been really interesting to see how well you can scale if you find someone who writes like you, who can analyze the data, who can repurpose what’s relevant. Yeah. It’s almost like he, he’s my voice, right? So
RV (09:03):
Yeah, that’s the, that’s part of the content I’m in is get the videos transcribed and send ’em to a writer and then, and then have ’em repurpose the content. Like, I mean, it’s just awesome, Ian, because you know, I’ve known you for so long, you’ve always been super successful in business. Like, but to actually see you doing it and go, oh man, what we teach works like it actually works. Oh my gosh. Like if you do it, it works. Like it really, it really, really fill me up. So, so I do wanna talk about the sales specific because like brother, you have crushed it. I mean now, even now in your own business you’re still selling and, and you know, using your personal brand to do some of that. But like, how did you become the number one, Like you were number one at rico, like you were one of the number one like directors of, of sales, I remember that. So you had, and you had 70 account executives underneath you. That was about the time we met. Then you became number one at Salesforce. Like what is it about what you do, do you think that has made you a number one salesperson versus, you know, all the sales managers, the salespeople, you’ve managed other sales people that have been on teams, you know, people you’ve met in, in the industry. Like what, what makes you a number one or what makes a number one salesperson?
IK (10:18):
Yeah, I love the question. And for anyone I don’t know if you have links, but I’m, I’m happy to share. I put together a an ebook or it’s really like a infographic on the top 10 traits of elite sales performers, the top kind of, you know, 1% of sales performers. And I studied a lot and I partnered with them
RV (10:37):
And I, and let’s do this, I do want people to get it. So if you go to brand builders group.com/ian cognac, so go to brand builders group.com/ian cognac, we’ll put, we’ll put a link here to what you’re talking about, Ian. So in his last name’s K O N i k K o N I a k K O N I a K.
IK (10:56):
So I’ll, I’ll get you that link. But fun, fundamentally for me personally, I get to ask this question a lot. I think, I think one of the things which I tend to, to do really well is I have a firm, it’s energy, right? Sales is a transfer of energy from one person to another. So for me, I genuinely have a lot of energy in that it contagious, it’s infectious. And I hear that a lot from clients. I ask someone why they bought for me for a corporate client and they said it was your energy. We, we thought the sales team needed more energy and we knew you brought that to the table. Now again, is that repeatable? Is it re reusable? No, that’s a personal thing. So I, I’d say for anyone who wants to improve their energy, right? You need to think about how you can actually help your clients and believe in the product or service you provide, right?
IK (11:47):
The reason Roy, you do really well at selling, even though you may not consider yourself a salesperson, you’re an amazing salesperson, is cuz you believed you can help anyone who joins your program and follows the steps that you teach. And because of that belief, your conviction, your energy when you’re talking to prospects is going to be extremely high. So if you wanna improve your energy, it starts with strengthening your own belief in in. How do you do that? Well, you need to talk to customers. You need to see the results they’re getting. If you’re brand new to a company, find out who your top customers are, interview them and really learn about what their before state was and what their after state and how you help them. Once you know you can help people fundamentally, once you know that you can truly improve their lives or improve their company’s performance, you are going to feel more energized, more, more passionate and, and become a better salesperson. So I think it starts with belief, which then transfers to energy, which then transfers to how you engage with your clients. So that would be probably not my number one.
RV (12:45):
I mean, it’s funny how you say that. Like I literally just experienced that in the opening of this interview. Like cuz you’re a past customer also, like hearing you go, yeah, I went from zero to seven figures in less than three years and really in my first full business year, I’m getting 30,000 views, like following this process. I’m going, gosh, it works like this stuff. It’s so convicting, like we’re gonna raise all our prices after this impact is what we’re getting. You need
IK (13:10):
To
RV (13:12):
Like, it just, it’s just, it’s so invigorating. And I think sometimes I think honestly, honestly, sometimes salespeople are a little bit afraid to talk to their past customers cuz they’re like, oh, you know, like, did it work? Was it good? Like, did they have a good experience? And but you, when you see that actual transformation, you just get so convicted on it. Yeah.
IK (13:33):
So I, I just did, I started my program in May, so I just did a pulse survey for Q1 for all 70 members and I asked them specifically, you know, what do you think this program is worth it? What value have you gotten? How has this helped you in your personal life? How has it helped you in your professional life? Right? So I’m capturing not only feedback so I can continue to improve the program, but I’m actually capturing success stories that I can use for marketing for future launches. But the, the real value is like hearing these stories, hearing people, Hey, I’m spending more time with my family. I’m not burning myself out, I’m selling more than ever. And I’m also able to play with my kids like cuz cause I don’t just teach sales, I teach, you know, a lot of like mindset and habits and balance and you know, I I I practice my faith, I have family, I have other values that, you know, my story and you know, my struggles with addiction and I had to overcome a lot of personal challenges that I incorporate into what I teach.
IK (14:25):
Cuz ultimately if you’re successful in one area, you’re making a lot of money, but you actually don’t have time or presence to be with your family or you’re not actually happy, then how is that successful? Right? So for me it really is more than that. And, and I think genuinely that, that’s what attracts a lot of clients is they want that balance. They want that true success, not just in how to sell more, but actually how to do it in a way that is high integrity, where it’s not sacrificing what’s most important to them, whether it’s their time, their family, their health. So I think knowing your uniqueness in positioning your service so that you can be your true, authentic self rather than just teaching a piece of content is also a big part of what I do and how I’ve been able to really, really grow my, my own business very, very, very quickly.
RV (15:11):
Well when you say talking to your past clients, like that’s so huge. Like, just cuz you kept the stories, I mean we did the trends in personal branding, national research study, you know, like earlier this year when we released it and it’s, you know, we were asking what we asked the average American citizen, what’s the most influential factor that contributes to you making a decision? And we said, Oh, the person is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, a New York Times bestselling author, they have a large social media presence or da da da da. None of those were number one, not even close. The number one thing was they said they have customer testimonials on their website. That was the number one thing. It’s like, it makes people believe that if other people are saying this is good, it’s, it’s the single most powerful thing and you just don’t get it.
RV (15:59):
If you don’t talk, you don’t call your past clients. Like if you don’t talk to ’em or you don’t survey ’em, you don’t, you don’t get that feedback. So how else, you know, when you think of account executive and, and I wanna make, you know, help me understand that term a little bit because at Salesforce you were doing truly like enterprise sales. You’re selling to like large companies. Some of our, some of our personal brands do that, right? They sell corporate training and they sell ’em to like big fortune 100 companies. A lot of, a lot of our, our, you know, listeners of the show and are more like small business entrepreneurs that, that sell more like business to consumer. So help us understand what does account executive mean? And then I know at Rico that wasn’t really like enterprise sales, that was more like B2B sales, but sort of give us the landscape of the different types of sales. And, and then what I’m specifically looking for is what is it, what can someone selling their personal brand learn from someone who has been selling enterprise accounts and like what’s the transferable skill set? Cuz you’ve, you’ve now straddled all these worlds at Rico. You were B2B at, at Salesforce, you were enterprise sales and now you’re a small business like solo per selling B to C to individuals. Yeah. So you’ve done it in all all three, which is very rare.
IK (17:21):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s such a good question. So I think, I think if I can just pan out and give you kind of the, the landscape of sales. A lot of people think sales and they think like B to C, right? And in the big influencers out there on Instagram, whatever, that is not what, what I did for 19 years I did specifically b2b. And in B2B there’s really two segments
RV (17:42):
Of business to business y. If you’re not familiar with the term, B2B is business to business. B2C is business to consumer.
IK (17:48):
Yeah. And for anyone who wants to know how this relates to people who have their own per personal brand or entrepreneurs, if you are selling to a company, you’re selling your training, your coaching, your portal, your services to a company, listen up because that’s business to business, okay? There’s a lot of universal principles to that apply to all three, but I’m gonna kind of give you a quick school in, in, in kind of what the differences are. So, love it. There’s two types of B2B sales. There’s strategic sales or enterprise sales, and there’s transactional sales. So think of B2B transactional as I’m selling copiers, I’m selling paper products, I’m selling janitorial services, I’m selling something, computers, it’s a commodity, right? Short sales cycles, generally price is gonna be very important and it’s gonna be high volume. Okay? High volume, high activity, kind of grinded out, do the activity, then you build the pipeline, then you get the sales.
IK (18:44):
So it’s, it’s kind of like anyone can go into that job and if you’re a hard worker and if you just do what you’re told and you basically stick to the, the numbers, it’s very metrics driven. You’re probably gonna be successful selling commodity. Now, typically that range, you see people maybe go from like a hundred, 2000, a hundred thousand dollars a year, right? And, and top earners might make 2, 2 50, but in general you’re not getting paid because it’s an easier sale. It’s transactional, it’s high volume. And there’s not a lot of differentiation between providers cuz it’s commoditized enterprise selling B2B enterprise or B2B software. If you think of companies like Workday or Salesforce or Microsoft or Oracle or any of these IBM big C selling software, these are much higher volume sales. So these sales oftentimes are several hundred thousand dollars, or in my case, several million dollars.
IK (19:37):
Now, if company’s gonna spend two, three, 4 million a year with you, you better believe there’s going to be multiple decision makers. It’s going to be a longer sales cycle. You’re going to have more stages in a sales cycle where you have discovery and demonstration and actually you have to do a business case. Maybe it has to go to a board. So think of RICO as transactional for 10 years and then me going to Salesforce to sell enterprise for nine years. So I had to go from this transactional hustler, grind it out, hard work, do the activity selling rep to a strategic selling rep. And the skills are not the same. The skills of an enterprise seller selling software, you need to be able to get to senior executives in a company, not office managers or lower levels, but senior executives who are responsible for making those big decisions, right? So how to access the C-suite, that’s a skill. Another skill is how to put together a business case in an ROI so that CFOs can justify this type of investment. Another skill is what’s called multi-threading. On average, there’s seven decision makers in the enterprise selling space. It’s not one person, it’s the legal team, the IT team, the security team,
RV (20:47):
What do you call it? Multithreading,
IK (20:49):
Multi multithreading. Okay. So just, just for the sake, I don’t wanna get too technical, but for the sake of the different sales cycles, they’re very different. A strategic person needs more organizational skills, time management skills, project management. They are not hard closing because again, there’s so many different decision makers and it’s a longer sales cycle. So they need to build partnership and relationships with clients. That’s primarily what I teach in my coaching programs is how to do this B2B software, strategic selling. And the upside of this is, when you’re doing this well, you make north of seven figures. This is the elite, the NFL mvp, the highest paying sales job in any business to business sales is selling software. Okay? So if you wanna, if you’re thinking of your business to business and you want to make as much money as you can selling software, you can make seven figures a year as a individual W two employee, which is unheard of.
IK (21:45):
I never knew this was possible. I’ve done it a couple times at Salesforce. Okay. So that’s the second se segment of sales. The third segment is B to C. This is when you’re selling direct to consumers. So think of a real estate agent or Rory selling me the program of joining Brand builders group. This is what I sell. Now I sell individuals that are joining my programs. I also sell B to B because sometimes I do company trainings to go out and actually train sales teams. So I’m doing both B2C and B2B right now as an individual B2C sellers, the cycles are gonna be much shorter. Okay? It’s also going to be, typically you’re dealing with one decision maker. Maybe they need to talk to their spouse, but it’s a much, it’s one or two sales calls, right? Whereas the B2B could be 20 or 30, right? So again, you’re, these are six to nine month sales cycles in some cases. So it, it really is about getting to value very quickly. But there are some common elements of all three segments which are critical to success. And the reason I was successful in all three is I took those same elements of what makes people successful and I applied them to all three of those segments. So I hope that clarifies things for anyone. Like, cuz sales is not just sales, right?
RV (22:54):
RV (23:46):
In our former life we sold consulting, we sold training. That’s b2b. So there’s a lot of personal brands that sell b2b. There’s not that many personal brands that sell enterprise where you’re selling something that is, you know, 5,000 seats at a time. Yeah. There’s a couple that train the trainer model, which is like what Franklin Covey did, where that model is more of like where you’re shipping kits, which I don’t know if you’ve ever stumbled across anyone as a personal brands that do this, but you, you could end up being in this space one day, Ian, which is basically just like you, you create a kit right? On your methodology and then you’re selling it to United Healthcare to their HR department and then you certify people internally and then they buy 5,000 kits and you’re shipping, you’re shipping kits. Like that’s what kind of Franklin Covey model is.
IK (24:34):
Yeah. Yeah. And there are people, Grant Cardone, I think I, I can’t quote the numbers, but yeah,
RV (24:39):
He does some of that. He
IK (24:40):
Does Cardone University card company companies where all their sales team have seats. And I think that business, I mean it’s definitely eight figures, but I heard something around like 40, 50 million just for that specific line of, of Cardone University and that’s b2b. He’s got whole sales team. So it absolutely, if you’re a personal brand, if I wanted to scale up and take my program and then sell it to Salesforce, for example, where they have 20,000 users and then they go through my program, I could do that. It’s not something I’m choosing to do. But it’s absolutely relevant to personal branding space if you have programs that have, you know, audiences in those companies that you can sell seats to, for example.
RV (25:18):
Yeah, that’s really cool. I mean that’s a whole nother thing in and of itself, of going, you know, when you think about the vision of how big a personal brand could be, you know, like Grant Cardone is selling BTA c getting people to buy tickets to come to Growth Con or whatever. Yep. And he’s selling b2b, like they’ve got trainers going out to companies doing stuff and then he’s selling Enterprise Cardone University, like buy a thousand seats in this, in this virtual, like there’s a big, there’s a big world here of how personal brands can become, you know, multi eight figure and, and all of that. So I wanna talk about referrals and lead generation specifically mm-hmm.
RV (26:05):
A lot of times once they get into the conversation, right, they’re talking with someone, they do a decent job cuz they are convicted on their product. Many times at Brand Builders group, you know, we say as you know, we serve mission driven messengers. So these are people that have like dedicated their life to their expertise. They believe in it. It’s almost like they’re a bleeding heart where they would give it away for free because they just love it. What they have a harder time doing is creating sales conversations and meeting new people. So what tips do you have in the way of lead generation referrals? How do I get, I mean obviously content marketing, which is a big part, part of what we do. What, what your story is recently, but like you weren’t doing content marketing at Salesforce, you weren’t doing content marketing at Rico yet, you were still generating new business like crazy. So let’s not allow content marketing to be part of the answer. How do you generate, how do you generate leads?
IK (27:03):
I mean, genuinely you can do it in a number of ways. I think in, in B to C specifically what I do is I go on podcasts like this. I I, it’s part of my strategy. So I’ll go to a lot of podcasts and people will hear me. So I identified like the top podcasts that are in the sales specific B2B sales space. And I you know, I reached out to the podcasters. I actually hired a agent to help me get booked on this. And I, I probably do at least two or three podcasts a month and I get a lot of leads coming in through, through that. I think another channel is, is just referrals. I set up, I didn’t even set this up yet, but I have a lot of people in their programs that are coaching with me right now tell their friends about it.
IK (27:58):
So I’ll just have people reach out and say, my friends in the program is getting a lot of value. Cuz again, if you’re, if you’re people that are joining you are, are getting success, they’re gonna talk about it, they’re gonna talk about coaching. And so what I typically will do is I will you know, I won’t even ask for referrals, they’re coming organically, but I’ll ask people to share their success stories. And part of my 2.0 launch is to set up kind of what you did with, with bg. I, I have referred a ton of people to, to BG over over the years. But I wanna have that same affiliate structure where, you know, if people have had results, they can refer their friends. So now you have 70 sales people versus, you know, this, this mm-hmm.
RV (28:52):
Oh, just so y’all know, what Ian’s referencing is we actually pay our customers lifetime referral fees when they, when they introduce someone to us. And so it’s like we, we have never run a paid ad and, and I want to, I’m trying to, but like we’ve been generating so much demand that we haven’t been able to scale our team fast enough to keep up with the demand coming from the word of mouth referrals because we pay people to do it too. So they actually make some of our clients make a lot of money. I mean, we have clients that make six figures a year just in referral fees. So
IK (29:24):
Yeah. And it’s coming. I, I’ve been building up now where I’m seeing, I’m seeing the impact there and I get the get the get the bill.com payment.
RV (29:33):
Oh, from us. Yeah. We send you money
IK (29:34):
Every month. Yeah. Yeah. Cause cause I believe in it and that’s the thing, like if I believe the program works and I’m a, and I’m, I’ve experienced firsthand I’m gonna be your best salesperson, there is, there’s no better salesperson. So really capturing the results and then putting a structure together where you have an affiliate program and if you are a personal brand, you can do this through like Kajabi’s got a tool for it and all the, you know, the ma major CRMs have have ways to set that up pretty easily to link you know, attribution to, to the referrals here. But, but
RV (30:05):
Even what I, even what I hear you saying is even if you can’t do affiliate links, just get your customers to share their story. Like that’s what it’s really about.
IK (30:13):
Yes, yes.
RV (30:14):
Get them results and then let them share their story.
IK (30:17):
They’re texting every time they text you and say, I got this. Capture it right and save it. So you can keep those text message every time you get a voice note every time anyone shares a success story or a win capture that, that’s gonna be your asset library on your website, on, you know, any sales calls you want to use. If you ever do a deck or a pitch deck or anything, you can share that. It’s just something I’ve done since the very beginning and it’s been absolutely huge in, in, if you go to my LinkedIn profile, you’ll see over a hundred referrals and it’s literally stories I, when someone finishes my program and say, if, did you have a good experience? Yes. Well, can you leave a referral on LinkedIn? Fortunately I haven’t had anyone that’s had a bad
RV (30:53):
Experience. Oh, a recommendation you mean? Yeah,
IK (30:55):
Yeah. A recommendation on they
RV (30:57):
Go write a public thing on your LinkedIn. Yeah, that’s another great one. Like the whole world can see it right there.
IK (31:03):
And, and I’ll just point people if they have doubts or, Hey, go read the recommendations. Like, I don’t want, here’s the thing. In order to be the, the common thread, I wanna give you some tips on what makes a great seller across all the space. So if you sell b2c, B2B keynotes, whatever, it doesn’t really matter. The, the common thread here. Here’s something really important that I want everyone to, to think about is the best sellers are not attached to outcomes, Okay? And it’s contrary to what may, may many people believe when they have quota goals or revenue goals. But if you’re focusing on your own outcomes, you are going to be inward focused where you and your goals are more important than your customer’s goals. You see, the best sales reps are actually invested in truly wanting to help their clients. So when they show up to a sales call or an interaction, they really wanna understand, does this client need my help?
IK (31:55):
Where do they struggle? What problems do they have? And am I a good fit to solve those problems? And if the answers yes, asking for money and getting ’em to a role is going to be the easiest part. So in a sales call, I’ll spend in a 30 minute sales call, 20 or 25 minutes really just understanding their world, their situation, where their struggle, what is the impact that these problems are having on their life, on their family, on their income. I literally will have people crying and happens almost every time where you really get ’em to open up and say, I’m not where I not wanna be. I’m not providing for my family, I’m not achieving the goals that I set out to, I’m sick and tired of this. And I’m like, Yes, you’re ready. Right? So it’s, it’s the same concept in B2B or b2c.
IK (32:35):
You really wanna show up with the intention of helping your client solve a problem or achieve a goal rather than trying to pitch or sell something. Okay? That is the common language of the best sales people, is they don’t, doesn’t feel to the customer like they’re being sold, It feels like to the customer that they’re sharing their world in that this person is interested in learning about them. So what I always tell people is, be interested, not interesting. In other words, the more you can show up with curiosity, interest, and really trying to understand the world of your clients, the more interesting you are going to become to them. Okay? So don’t try and impress, don’t try and pitch. Don’t try and, you know, show up and, and wow them, right? Or else like you’re gonna lose them. Instead just leave your ego at the door and be really curious and interested.
IK (33:26):
And if you can’t help them, then go in and it’s your obligation to get them to, to sign up because you know it’s in their best interest. And then again, closing becomes the easiest part of the sale. So I think that to me is like really key in terms of, you know, some of the, the commonalities across all these different, you know, different schools of sales. It’s like if you’re, if you’re selling keynotes for example, and, and you want to go in and, and position yourself as the keynote speaker for their annual conference, you’re gonna wanna know like, what is the biggest problems that your employees are facing today that you want the keynote to address? Where are are struggles? What do people wanna learn about? What are they asking for? What would you consider successful if they walked away from? What would you want the energy to be?
IK (34:11):
What is the biggest thing? Why’d you reach out to me? Why’d you reach out to me? A as a potential speaker, right? So it’s really, you’re, you’re trying to uncover their goals and what success looks like to them. And then you tailor your messaging around how you’re gonna help them. Cuz if you don’t know what they want first or what they’re trying to achieve or what their problems are, then your pitch is gonna fall flat. So I think again that’s really important. I want to give, give some of those tips away. But that’s, that’s the key. It’s like if you do that,
RV (34:36):
I think that’s the big thing people don’t understand. Like they think of sales is like being a, you know, a smooth talker and like having the right thing to say, like whatever. And just going, all you’re doing is trying to really understand what their situation is and, and can you help. So, okay so basically most of your leads come from your existing customers.
IK (35:01):
They’re all from content marketing. I know you don’t wanna but they
RV (35:06):
Down. I don’t mind hearing that. That’s what we teach people how to do, right? Like that’s, that’s I know that especially in a B2C world like content marketing, podcasting, social media, like, you know, email marketing, all that stuff. Can
IK (35:17):
I walk you through exactly how I got my leads? Cause I have 13 on my wait list, so I’ll tell you what my strategy is and you just, hopefully your users can use it. So find the channel where your clients are in mind. It’s b2b, right? Sales people. So it’s LinkedIn or if you’re again, potentially selling two businesses and you’re a personal brand and this resonates, this could be a source of lead traffic, this podcast, right? So fundamentally find your source and go there where your clients are. So wherever that is, that’s where you want to be most active. So anyone who I post every day on LinkedIn, okay? And people connect with me, so I’ll get, you know, 50 connection requests a day. Every person that requests me, not that I’m requesting that, that raises their hand and says, I wanna connect with you or follows you, or whatever it is, depending on the channel you’re on, I send them a message, right?
IK (36:04):
Or actually I have a VA send it and the message is simple. Hey, thanks for requesting me as a connection. If you’re looking to grow sales, right? And I only send this to the people that are sales professionals cuz that’s my icp. I wouldn’t send this to someone who is a marketer or project manager, just the one, I’d say, if you’re looking to grow your sales, here are three ways I can help. And I say, number one, I have an email newsletter that you can get new videos every week sent to number two. You wanna capture the whole archive, go to my YouTube subscribe here, and I have link to subscribe. And then I say number three, my coaching programs are completely sold out, but if you want to join the next coaching cohort, here’s the wait list link to work with me directly on that wait list link.
IK (36:43):
I have my pricing laid out, I have the program laid out, and when they sign up, they know what they’re getting. So when they sign up for the wait list, they know what the investment is, they’ve already raised their hand, they fill out a form, right? And if I really wanna basically call them or create true lead source, now I have 1300 people that are teed up and I could set up calls with them and I would have them fill out a form before they book it to further qualify them and make sure they’re fit using, using ly. So that’s kind of the way I’ve been doing it, minus the calls because again, it’s just me and I don’t have sales team right now, but that’s exactly, you know, the strategy that I was used. Once that wait list is ready for launch, then I’ll warm up the, the wait list.
IK (37:22):
So I basically cap my enrollment, I cap my members, and then I have a a nurturing campaign to everyone on the wait list, Hey, it’s coming get ready enrollments in three months, here are some success stories, here’s the curriculum. Hey, you have questions, just email me or reach out on LinkedIn. And so they’re continuing to hear from me. It’s not like five months and then they lost interest them, I’m nurturing them and then they’re also on my newsletter getting, you know, continued content where I can build that trust. Then before I launch, I say I only have 20 spots available. First come, first serve, put the link and in, and then I make it, you know, more of a, a time based in a, in a, in a cap, a member cap based program where I’ve already done the math and I know how many people I need to hit, you know, the target revenue goals for, for, for what I want to do. So that creates overwhelming demand because they need to get in and they know that it’s a limited offer and there’s only limited spot. So I, I love that versus just open all the time. Anytime you want it, just hop on a call. It’s here when you, you’re ready, right? So by the time I get to the launch, everyone’s like literally dying to, to get in the program. So that’s the strategy I’ve used and it’s working really well so far.
RV (38:27):
Yeah, I love that. That’s so great, man. I, it’s just so simple. I mean, it’s just, you know, adding value and building trust and then just letting people raise their hand and say when they’re ready. We are, we’re evergreen. Like we always, we’re like an evergreen open option. So it’s always interesting to see like how people use the launch strategy to, to sort of like build the demand and, and there is always that more natural urgency in a launch model than with the evergreen. And if you’re doing an evergreen model, you gotta, you gotta have some type of urgency for something. So I really love that. So Ian one last thing here. I already, so I already told everybody, you know, by the way, go to brain builders group.com/ian cognac, we’ll connect you to Ian where you can like download some of his free trainings and, and be plugged in with everything that he’s going, he’s got going on.
RV (39:20):
His last name is K O N I A K, Coac. Before I let you go, a few tips on closing. Like any other tips on like, if you’re in an active conversation, I know you’re not doing calls now, but you’ve done years and years of calls and, and you know, it, I think when you’re selling enterprise or when you were doing b2b, like even when you’re selling copiers, like that’s still a big decision. How do you bring people to a decision quickly? You know, on, on, especially like high dollar offers, right? So whether you’re selling, you know, millions of dollars of CRM software, or you’re selling them a copier that’s tens of thousands of dollars or a consulting program or a coaching program. Any, any tips or advice on like you said, if you’ve done a good job asking the questions and listening to their need and, and, and that this is the easiest part. So what would you say about closing?
IK (40:22):
I, I think again I just shared this, I, I’ll, I’ll give three tips that I, I think work well. But the premise is if you were attached to an outcome and you need to get the sale, you are gonna show up as needy and you’re gonna have commission breath and commission breath stinks. So like above all else, the tone and the energy you need to bring is one that this is for you. It’s not for me. This is going to help you. If you wanna do it, great, I’m here. And if you don’t, hey, that’s your decision. No, no sweat off my back. I’m here to help. But honestly, some people can’t help themselves. You lead ’em to water and you can’t hold their head and force them down to drink. They need to go down and wanna drink themselves. So I think that is a mindset shift more than anything else.
IK (41:10):
And in realizing like, Hey, I don’t need this to feel worthy. I don’t need them to sign up. Okay, this is good for them and if they miss it, it’s their loss. So that’s, that’s kind of the underlying energy. Now as far as like strategies or closing tips I think it’s really important, and this goes without saying if you’re, if you’re selling business to business, so if you’re selling a keynote or to a company, you need to be dealing with the decision maker directly. So never take no from someone who can’t say yes. So if, if they’re not paying for the keynote, you need to get to the people who are deciding what speakers are there and who are paying for it, right? Versus somebody who’s just collecting information on all the speakers, right? You need to make sure you’re dealing with the heads of that department.
IK (41:49):
So anytime I was selling coaching or training to a company or keynote to a company, I need to make sure I find out first and foremost, who is the key decision maker? How is this decision made? I have a framework that I use that I’m gonna give you called predict selling. So predict selling stands for P is the problem. What problem are you solving? Okay? That’s the P You need to make sure you know the problem, okay? The R is really important. It’s, it’s the why, the reason why do they wanna do this? Okay? What’s in it for them? What outcomes it’s gonna help ’em achieve. That’s the, that’s the r stands for reason, okay? The E is engagement. Are they engaged? Okay, In other words, go get their cell phone. Here’s another, probably give you five, five tips on this one acronym. The E is go get their cell phone, get on the text thread, Ro you and I are on a text thread.
IK (42:40):
Now if even if I don’t have anything to ask of you, I’ll share a win, I’ll share a voice note, I’ll share a memo, right? Because I want you to think of me right in general and stay top of mind for you. You wanna do the same thing with your clients. Drive engagement, get on text, thread with them and have a relationship. Okay? D is decision maker and decision process. Make sure you are dealing directly with the decision maker that is above and beyond the number one in B2B way. You need to make sure you’re dealing with the right person who can say yes. And you need to understand their decision process, right? Does it have to go to a committee? When is it going to be decided? Do you have to do legal contracts? Is there a purchasing department? You need to understand, especially if you’re selling as a personal brand to businesses, there are many layers of approvals that people have to go through.
IK (43:23):
So that’s the second D in is decision process. Okay? The I is impact. If they work with you, what is the impact? What are the results? What is the payoff they’re going to get? Right? So show them the value. That’s the i is impact. The C is cost of in action. If you don’t do this right, what is that gonna cost you? Are you gonna continue to be in pain? What happens if nothing changes in the year? Right? Really get them to say, Hey, let’s say you do nothing. What is your life gonna look like in three months and six months in one year? Very, very powerful. Tony Robbins uses that quite a bit to get people to want to change, right? Cause ultimately sales is getting people to change what they’re doing. So what is it gonna cost you if it you, if you don’t do anything, right?
IK (44:03):
There’s hard costs and there’s opportunity costs. And then the last thing t is timeline. Why now why is it important for you to do this right now? What’s driving this on your side? Maybe there’s a product launch, maybe they’re hiring some new sales people, maybe you know, they, they’re getting married. What whatever it is, like find out why now is relevant for them to enroll in your service. So if you can go through, predict and have all those question answers, by the time you get to close, it’s going to be natural and you’re going to basically say, Great, well it sounds like we can help you. There’s a lot in it for you. The timing is perfect. Let’s go ahead and get started. All I need is your authorization, right? So then ask for the business, right? Which is basically ask ’em to buy, tell ’em how to buy and then ask them to buy, right?
IK (44:45):
A lot of people are afraid to just ask them. So you just be direct and ask them. And then if they hesitate, they need to think about it. Don’t get off the call, find out like, hey, we’re here now. Do you mind me asking plain and simple, what is it exactly that you need to think about? What is it specifically that is causing you hesitation? Sounds like everything we talked about is a great fit, but I believe in full transparency. Would you mind sharing what it is? So be really direct and get to, you know, the true objection and then address, address it, right? That’s the bottom line. Address it, directly work with them. Make it a win-win. And and ideally, if it’s not a fit and they walk away, you know what? It’s their loss, no attachment, their loss. Plenty of go after someone else, like, no big deal. Move
RV (45:25):
On. I love it. I love it. Predict, predict, predict. I love your framework. I see your modular, I see your captivating content, modular content method frameworks. I love it. Build, building out the so good, Ian is so good. Y’all again, brand builders group.com/ian cognac. If you wanna learn more about Ian, if you’re looking for some sales coaching, this, you know, Ian is, you know, obviously got a wait list, but somebody that we highly recommend. And n I just love this brother. I’m, I’m, I’m so excited about the journey. It’s been such a blessing to know you and see you early in your career, rising as a salesperson, a sales manager joining one of the top sales organizations in the world, becoming number one now, teaching people how to sell because you’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. And that’s you brother. So thanks for being here, Ian, We, we believe in you brother. And just keep going out there and, and keep, keep serving and keep selling.
IK (46:26):
Thanks for having me, Rory. And thanks for all you do, for everyone out there that’s trying to get their message for, for so many people. You’re making a huge impact in, in, in my life and in my families and all of my customers as a ripple effect of what you’ve put together. So I appreciate you just as much.
RV (46:42):
Thanks brother. Thank you so much.
Ep 329: Authenticity as Your New Competitive Advantage with Erin Hatzikostas | Recap Episode
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:54):
Hey, y’all and welcome to my recap episode on my conversation with Erin hatzicostas. Now she’s got me all triggered about how to say her last name, cuz I’ve been calling her Erin hot Costas for forever and then she said cost us. So now I’m all insecure about it. But seriously, if you did not listen to this interview, I really suggest that you go. And I don’t say that just because it’s an interview. I think you should listen to, even though it is that it’s, it just it’s really universal. And it, it touches the core of, I think of a lot of what of us, a lot of what we all struggle with, who you’ve ever thought, do I really deserve this? Or am I living some imposter life or I’m not good enough? Or I have to be something I’m not in order for people to like me or respect for, or respect me or follow me.
AJV (01:43):
This is the episode for you, cuz it’s all about using authenticity as a part of your leadership strategy. And I love it. I love her. I think she is authentic. I also think she’s just an awesome human being. It’s a really great interview. I really recommend that you go and listen to it. But with all that said here are four, four things that I took away from this conversation that I thought were really worthy to come back and recap in this conversation. I loved what she said. She said that, you know, when she left corporate America and she was a corporate CEO for years but when she left corporate America to like kind of go out on her own as a coach, speaker, consultant, entrepreneur, podcaster, author, all these things she, for a long time, didn’t want to be labeled as a coach or a trainer, a consultant or speaker because she had this like preconceived notion of what that was.
AJV (02:37):
And I loved what she said about it. And she said, it took me a long time to get here. But here’s what I would do today. Here’s the advice that I would give someone today. It’s don’t not do something because you hated the way that you saw someone else do it. And in the middle of that is you know, the foundation, the gen Genesis of some authenticity, it said don’t define what something is because of one way that you saw it done that you’re like, well, I don’t wanna do that. Or I don’t wanna be that. Well, it’s like, don’t,
AJV (03:28):
Oh my gosh. I thought that was so good because I can think of so many times or so many things where I haven’t done something because I was like, oh, I didn’t like that. Or I didn’t like the way they did. It’s like, so what do it differently? Or get it done by someone else? That doesn’t mean you don’t have to like the whole thing just because you didn’t like the way it was done by one particular person or company or organization, do it differently, be authentic and do it in the way that feels you. Then this was a second big highlight for me is we talked about, well, what is authenticity? Like, what’s your definition of authenticity? And I think this is really interesting because I think sometimes that word can be overused, but in a way where it’s not really explained very well, right.
AJV (04:14):
I hear the word, you know, be authentic and you know, show authenticity. But it’s like, what does that really mean? Because it’s like, there’s all different types of internal translations we can make with things like that. And it’s like, just do you be you? And I loved, oh my gosh, I love this so much. I literally have it written down. I’m gonna share the whole team. But on a PostIt note of my wall, I’m gonna do something with this. Cause she said, authenticity is exposing who you really are when people least expect it. That is authenticity. Oh my gosh. That is so good. Like exposing who you really are, the moment that people least expected, what an amazing definition of authenticity. And then she followed it up and she said, it’s not just being yourself. Sure. That’s a part of it. And it’s not just being transparent.
AJV (05:05):
Right? authenticity and transparency are two different things with two different definitions. You cannot be too authentic, but you can be too transparent. Right. I think that’s really an important distinction, right? Authenticity and transparency. They’re different things. Right? I thought the other thing that she said I thought was brilliant is that it’s not about you. It’s really not. It’s about creating trust with other people by being more vulnerable and humble and you in the moment. And I thought that was really good. It’s like authenticity. Isn’t about you just putting it all out there for the world to take it all in. Being authentic is about creating a trust, a trusted environment. An environment of intrigue and curiosity, even with other people, by being more vulnerable, by being more honest. And by being more humble in the moment, going back to her definition, which is authenticity is exposing who you really are when people least expected mind blown.
AJV (06:17):
I love that so much. And quite honestly, that allows me to attach a whole new meaning to authenticity and being authentic, being authentic. Isn’t just being me. No, it’s being more of me in the right moments where people least expect it. That allows me to show my humanity. And it also allows me to show my imperfections, right. I love what she said. Her son says that she’s a imperfection. And we all are. We are all imperfections. We are not perfect, but it allows me to be more imper, imperfect, which naturally should make me more human and more relatable and more personable to those around me. I need that. We all need that. So, so good. Then we followed it up with about authenticity is not a permission. It’s a power. And I think I often hear some people you know, kind of roll their eyes at authenticity as like, is this some woo woo female feminist crap.
AJV (07:17):
AJV (08:20):
And also the fact that we just were really blessed to have the opportunity to have this conversation on this show and, and use it in a way that will make us all feel more ourselves and more human when we’re looking at those around us. Right. and then the last thing we did was that we talked about this awesome study that she just did was like did this national research study on authenticity in the workplace. So cool. I love this idea. I love the results. I love this study. The data is so amazing and so helpful and empowering as a leader or a business owner. But also really empowering as a, as a teammate, as an employee, as someone who just has human relationships and, and deals with communication, which is all of us. But one of the things that I thought was really fascinating is one of the key takeaways was the parallel between authentic cultures and talent retention, which is just a really hot topic right now, right.
AJV (09:18):
Everyone is talking about how do I retain talent? How do I, you know, recruit and retain really good people. And there is a direct correlation with, do you have an authentic culture where people can be themselves in the moment where there is humility and vulnerability and the ability to just get it straight with no facades and no pretending. Is there that, and if there is you have a higher chance of talent retention versus is this a culture where we just don’t talk about those things, you know, don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t really ever get to know your leaders. Don’t ever really get to know your executives. And if you have that, you have a very high chance of quick turnover. So let that sit in for a minute. If you have any sort of employees or team members, or even even run a volunteer organization, it’s people don’t have to stay. There’s lots of options, especially right now where everyone is hiring. So how can you use authenticity as your main retention tool with your team? Y’all check out this interview check out Erin Hatzicostas you can go to B authentic, Inc. That’s just the letter B authentic ink.com. You can check her out, follow her, get this study. It’s amazing. Go listen to it, put it into practice and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 328: Authenticity as Your New Competitive Advantage with Erin Hatzikostas
RV (00:07):
Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming, uh, at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
AJV (00:53):
Hey everyone. And welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand pod. This is AJ Vaden. I am one of your co-hosts here and I get the, uh, the honor and the privilege of getting to introduce you, uh, to a good friend of mine. Um, at Erin OSIS, you’re gonna get to learn all about her in just a few minutes and some really cool stuff that she’s got going on, and I will give her a formal introduction, but for all of you listening, uh, I want you to know why you need to stick around and listen to this episode. You know, we have had a mini guests on in the past that talk about research. Um, and today we’re gonna talk about not just research, but how research impacts you in your business right now today. Uh, we’re gonna be talking about the research on authenticity in the workplace.
AJV (01:45):
So to me it does not matter if you’re an employee, an employer, if you are so entrepreneur, entrepreneur, or anything in between, like this impacts you, right? We’ve heard it said before that, uh, data data is the real unique differentiator in the marketplace today. And I’m a big believer in that. I’m a big proponent in that it’s like data is the differentiator and Erin has gone out and done this amazing study on authenticity in the workplace. And I think that there’s some really interesting talk right now about the workplace and you know, what they’ve been calling the great resignation. Uh, and I don’t really know if that’s the right term, right? I don’t know if that’s the right term. I love what Ariana Huffington says. It’s not the great resignation is the great reevaluation. And I think looking at authenticity in the workplace and what does that even mean?
AJV (02:36):
And how does it, how does it impact our employees, our employers and the companies at large is a really important discussion to have. So again, it doesn’t matter if you are a staff of zero or a staff of 1000, this interview, this research, uh, this does pertain to you. So I hope you stick around, uh, and make it all the way to the end, because also Erin’s gonna give you a really cool link to download this data, to help you take that back to your everyday business. So without further ado, uh, I’ll give you just a quick highlight. Um, but Erin Hatzikostas is a former corporate CEO, turned professional pot stir in her own words. She is also the founder, uh, and CEO of be authentic, Inc. And as a bestselling author, she’s a TEDx speaker, she’s a podcast, a podcast host. And, uh, what she calls a, coachs a coach coach salted
EH (03:53):
Thank you so much. And like most people I have such a, I have such a girl crush on you, AJ. So it’s so jam out for a little bit, have you all to myself slash, you know, share you with thousands of people.
AJV (04:04):
Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to have this conversation. I really love having conversations with friends more than anything else, because I get to bring in like some of like the behind the scenes context of what makes you so awesome as a human being. And you don’t always get to do that when you have, you know, a quote unquote complete stranger on. Um, so it’s really always a treat when I get to, I have a friend on the show and, uh, talk about all the cool things you have going on, but then also just to help the audience, get to know the awesomeness that is, you know, these amazing people that we get to do life with. So I’m so excited. And so in an effort to help our audience get to know you just a little bit, can you give everyone a brief backstory of kinda how you got to where you are right from?
AJV (04:50):
You know, you’ve been a big corporate CEO and you’ve led teams of thousands of humans, and you’ve worked for really big corporations. And you’ve now been on the other side as a speaker and an entrepreneur and an author. Like we didn’t even have that in your bio. You’re the author of this awesome book. And you’ve got all these cool things going on, but those are like two pretty different lives. And so it’d be awesome to hear, like give us some context and some background of like this, you know, quote unquote, former life as this corporate CEO, why this shift and how did you end up here talking about authenticity in the workplace?
EH (05:27):
Oh, uh, I’d love to, and so first the first thing I have to say though, is, you know, quick story, my son, about six months ago, he was just like making a bagel in the kitchen and he is like, mom, do you know what a perfectionist is? And I was like, yeah. And he’s like, you’re an imperfection
EH (06:26):
Um, but the good news is it was a great company. It was a big company and, and much like a lot of your listeners, you know, I was able to sort of Bob and weave my way through some, some opportunities take on things I was highly unqualified to do. Um, but never once did I, you know, I have this career path, like I wanna be an executive or I wanna be a CEO. You know, I was small town girl, Northern Michigan, you know, got good grades, but didn’t know really much about, you know, running a company. Um, but, but I did find myself at one of the subsidiary companies that they had acquired and not found myself, I strategically went there and, um, was just lucky enough over the years, every time somebody would leave, they basically were like, look to their left and right.
EH (07:07):
And they’d be like, well, I guess we should give it to Erin. Um, and that happened all the way up till, you know, I took on the CEO position and, uh, I let a company, I was about a thousand people and we we’re kind of in the dumps, you know, financials had been flat for years. We were quite frankly, kind of the laughing stock of the company. It was a, it was an acquisition gone bad, a typical, like let’s bring in this great new sexy company and then give them, you know, no money and resources to do what they need to do to be successful. And, um, I took over in 2016 and I’m just really proud to say that in three years, uh, we took those flat earnings that we had been having and we tripled them and our employee employee engagement went up 12 percentage points.
EH (07:51):
Like we became kind of the darling actually of the parent company and all along the way as I was having success, I also would often think, I wonder what I’m gonna be found out. Hmm. And it, it wasn’t Asia. It, wasn’t your typical like imposter syndrome. Like I, I understood you kind of had to lean in a little further than you were comfortable. I understood the, you know, I, I, I felt like I had the intellectual chops. I had the relationships like, but it was more that I felt like I wasn’t sacrificing as much as my peers, you know, my, my other colleagues were traveling every week for, you know, client meetings. They were giving up vacations. They were, you know, I had one friend that moved her family like three times and like six years to sort of climb the ladder. And I thought, I don’t know how long my luck’s gonna run out with having this much success and not sacrificing as much as everybody else.
EH (08:45):
And, and so then, you know, I, I led the company for three years, decided I really was craving exponential growth that I couldn’t find there. And I didn’t think I would find it in the corporate world. And what happened was when I, when I announced my retirement, like 75% of the messages and conversations said the same thing they said, we’re gonna miss your authentic leadership. And I, it’s not that I was surprised like, Ooh, who me authentic, like it’s, but I hadn’t really been pinned with that badge before. And after all those messages, it was like, there was this moment where I was like, wait a minute. I’m not gonna be found out. I’ve been actually playing a different game than everybody else. And I started to realize that I had subconsciously, but pretty purposely used authenticities. And now what I actually have figured out how to teach, but I had used them to gain the best talent to, uh, negotiate deals, to stand out to the executives, you know, going to quarterly business reviews.
EH (09:50):
And everybody else was like giving the propaganda. And I was telling a story or I was telling them where we were, you know, pooping the bag and it really gained trust and St stood out. And so after stumbling my retirement, I went and did kind of something else, quote, unquote, started a software company, which I didn’t really build anything. But, um, and you know, I think this is really important. I had thought about doing the career and leadership space. I think this is actually really, really important for the audience. One of the buckets I considered was this career leadership space that I’m in, because I knew I had a lot to give and that I would do well, but I didn’t wanna do it. And here’s why, because in my head there were thousands of them and they were sort of a dime a dozen.
EH (10:32):
Right. And this is before I had heard of the concept of personal branding and doing, doing it differently. And so I actually avoided it until, you know, I started writing blogs. I would sit at hockey practice and I’m like, oh my God, I have so much to say. And I no longer have like lawyers won’t let me say stuff. And I was like puking out. Like I had, I remember having a word document, AJ and I, I never considered myself a writer. I was a math major, not a very good one, but a math major. I had 30, some pages of written blogs, just sitting up in like the metal benches at the hockey team. And what happened is I, two things happened, one, which I preach to people all the time. It’s like this lesson, I keep learning, but I also want other people to learn you shouldn’t not do something because you hate the way it was done before.
EH (11:21):
Hmm. Instead do it your own way. And so one, I was like, what do I hate about the career in leadership space? Well, it’s stuffy, it’s boring. It’s a bunch of HR people it’s blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I also listened to a podcast. And it wasn’t you guys yet, which I can tell about then hearing you guys and why it mattered so much more. I, I heard a podcast. Um, do you know, you remember the guy that has a podcast called, like Youpreneur I think, or so, yeah. Yeah. I can’t remember his name. Nice guy, but he’s a little bit like much a British guy, but I somehow stumbled upon it. And Aja was like, oh my God, this is what I wanna do. Like, I didn’t ever realize that, right. This concept. And you guys say it now a lot, you know, coaches, consultants, speakers, and authors, that there was a mechanism that there was an industry.
EH (12:08):
You know, all I had seen were these career leadership that were doing it, the old fashioned way, like go out and sell things and they didn’t have a brand. Right. And they, they weren’t speaking. And, and so when I realized that one, there was what you guys teach that is, so me, I love to speak, I love to do like the big things. Um, I loved the concept of personal branding and that I had also this message that to me, and, and what you said at the beginning was so right. Like I speak mostly to corporations, but I’m telling you authenticity always wins. And I’m learning that as an entrepreneur, right? Like the same things I did successfully as a, you know, a corporate nine to five executive are working here. And when I finally realized too, that it was teachable and that it was, you know, authenticity, isn’t this permission, it’s actually a power. It’s like something that can help you. It’s not just like, I was gonna give people permission to have a better career. Um, when I combined those two, that, that that’s when everything ignited and I got started on, on my path.
AJV (13:09):
Oh, that’s so good. And that you said something in there it’s like, authenticity is not of permission. It’s a power. Um, and I love that. And I, I wanna go back to two things that you said that you kind of skimmed over, but it’s interesting because, uh, prior to our call today, I was in my EO forum meeting. And so I’m a part of the entrepreneurs organization here in Nashville. And for those of you who aren’t familiar with it, um, you get paired in like these little small group forums. So there’s a group of seven of us, I guess, eight of us, including me. And we meet every single month for, you know, three to four hours talking about our businesses, helping each other grow. Um, and it was really fascinating that a lot of the discussion that my EO forum has had a lot of it by me is, you know, trying to figure out like, why is there such this culture of hustle and sacrifice?
AJV (13:54):
Like, why is it that, you know, in America and probably in many places all over the world, but I live here so I can speak to this more honestly. And authentic authentically is the more you sacrifice. Somehow the more successful you are, right? The more you hustle and grind and have no personal life and no family life, like the more quote unquote successful you are. And I heard you say that like you, and then it’s like, and if you don’t, you feel guilty. Right. And it’s, uh, it’s interesting. It’s like, I think about myself. I’m about to go on a, a very 10 day, a very, like a very, uh, like a very intentional 10 day vacation with my kids and my husband. And like what I asked my EO group to hold me accountable to is no work. And at the same time, I know that the reason I’m asking for accountability is because that’s gonna be freaking hard for me, because if I’m not, I feel like there’s shame and guilt tied to it. It’s like, oh gosh, my employees are working. I should be. And it’s like, if I’m not working, like where’s my worth then, like, what if I’m not valuable to the organization in 10 days, God forbid. And so I would love to hear from you both on the corporate side, and now on the other side, looking at the corporate side, where does that come from? Why is it there and how do we eradicate it?
EH (15:05):
It’s addiction. Uh, you know, I think Shonda rhymes, if you’ve never seen her Ted talk, remember the, um, the year of yes. You know, she talks about, I
AJV (15:13):
Haven’t seen her Ted talk, but I love,
EH (15:14):
Oh my gosh.
AJV (15:17):
It OK.
EH (15:17):
Yeah. So she talks about the hum and it’s very illiterate if it’s a beautiful, I mean, Shonda RHS powerhouse. Right. But she talks about the hum and getting addicted to the hum and it’s the hum and the hum. Right. You get, and, and, um, I think it’s really an addiction. Um, and what I always tell people when I talk about authenticity and part of this is, you know, I’m not a very disciplined person, you know, don’t tell Rory, like, I’m not a take the stairs kind of person. I just, that’s not how, you know, I’m a seven on the Enneagram. I’m a creative, but what I’ve found is the nice part is that what, what we teach in authenticity and, and to, to get to your point about like, why are we like that? I always tell people, I don’t change people. I change their addiction.
EH (16:03):
And there’s a detox period. Right. And so for, for example, in your example, change of addiction would be okay, you’re feeling like, okay, this anxiety, like I should be doing more, my team is, is working and I’m not. And if you start to experiment with, um, for example, you know, authenticity, one of my principles is model no better place to, to use the model principle than to go on vacation and model what you want for your employees. Yep. So many leaders would be like, take your vacation, da, da, and then they’re like, hypocrites, they’ll go. And then they’ll work. And what do you think the employees, what message do they get? They don’t listen. They don’t listen to you. They, they watch you. They told. And so a new addiction might be, you take this 10 day, you break free and you start to just, I want you just to observe what you see from your team.
EH (16:55):
For example, somebody that normally doesn’t get to do something, cuz usually you handle it and they step up and do it. And you see like the pride in their face or somebody that follows in your footsteps and says, oh, I noticed you weren’t checking in. I also didn’t check in. I so needed. I didn’t realize how burnt out I was. And, and so now it, you know, instead of being addicted to that ha like, I want you to start to get addicted to this new thing, which is leadership
AJV (17:33):
Hmm. That’s so good. Um, but yeah, I mean there’s so much, I totally agree. There’s an addiction to it. Um, and a really unhealthy one at that. Um, okay. And then the second thing, um, kind of leading into this, you said, uh, I’m learning that I can teach authenticity. So before we get to the study, which I am super intrigued about, and I think it is really interesting and compelling, uh, because I think it’s lacking. I think people struggle with this a lot for a lot of different reasons. So I want like, I want you to define authenticity to you.
EH (18:10):
Yeah. What
AJV (18:11):
Is authenticity?
EH (18:12):
Well, so the way I define it is it’s about exposing who you are when people least expect it.
AJV (18:18):
Hmm love.
EH (18:19):
And, and so what happened, you know, so I said, okay, I’m gonna go do this. I’m gonna go teach it. And then I was like, oh crap. Like, how do you teach something that’s so inherently personal and such, you know, sort of fluffy unicorn DDO. Like how, how can I teach that? Yeah. And, but, but I knew I’m like, wait, I didn’t walk into work. Like I would walk into if I went to your house for a pool party, right. Like I knew there was something more nuanced about me and, and about the people that I consider authentic as well. And actually the first spark was good. Old Google, good old Google. I like, what’s the root word? And the root word is authentic coast, a Greek word and authentic coast means to be genuine. But it also means to be original and authoritative. And so when I saw that, I was like, yes, like authenticity is this more nuanced definition?
EH (19:14):
So actually when I teach, what authenticity is that first thing I do actually is deprogram what? It’s not. So authenticity is not simply being yourself. Yeah. I know that might be depressing. I know that might take a little exorcism, but it is not simply, it’s not the same as being yourself. And it’s also not transparency. It’s not synonymous. People always ask me like, but Erin, is there ever a risk of being too authentic? And I’m like, no, but there’s a risk of being too transparent. They’re not the same word. They’re not the same word at all. And so what, what the most important thing I teach people too, is that authenticity done right in business, in work is actually not about you. Mm it’s. About creating connection, building trust, intrigue, by being, you know, exposing things of yourself, being more vulnerable, being more humbled, using the principles, telling stories, things that you do.
EH (20:13):
Not because it feels better for you, but because it feels better for the connection that you create with people. You know, for example, you know, my first principal, I teach humility, not as like some fluffy adjective, but like purposely use humility. Like I mentioned, like, I have to tell you, I was a complete failure in my first career. And the reason you do that is because what happens then? You’re like, oh, she’s just like me. Like I failed that, you know, chemistry class or, you know, or you also think like, okay, she did not need to tell me that. So I’m guessing she’s not hiding anything else. Like if she would just go and tell me that, you know, she’s spill stuff all over her shirt, you know, two minutes ago or whatever it is. And so if you can think about authenticity, not about you, but, but doing those things that kind of buck the norm that, uh, you know, show a little bit of who you are to benefit somebody else, the reality is it, what happens? It comes right back to you, right? So it’s, it’s not selflessness completely. But if you think first about how you do it for others, then the rewards come back to you almost immediately. Um, so that, that’s kind of how I define it. And then, you know, this, this company I work with called brand builders group taught me how to put some more definition and structure and framework around it, which I have as well.
AJV (21:21):
Well, you know, what’s interesting is, uh, hearing that definition and hearing that earlier, you said you even struggled for, from not maybe what most people would identify as imposter syndrome, but a form of imposter syndrome. And you and I have had those conversations before of you not wanting to feel like an imposter and you know, it’s it, it’s interesting because I feel like most people who self identify with imposter syndrome, it’s probably also much of it stems from being around a whole bunch of people who aren’t being authentic. We’re trying to live up, we’re trying to live up to the image. It’s something that is not real right. It’s like, I, I had to, I did this like a couple years ago. It’s like five years ago now maybe. But I went through my Instagram and I unfollowed every single person that made me feel bad about people.
AJV (22:15):
And not because they were doing anything was my own insecurities. Right. But it’s like, they didn’t do anything, but it was like, man, if I can tell that you’ve airbrushed your photos, it’s like, I’m trying to live up to something that I will never li be able to live up to because we’re human and no human looks like that. Right. That is an animated version of human reality. And I was like, my gosh, I’m like comparing myself to something that’s not actually real. Yeah. And that happens all the time. Right. Unintentionally accidentally or not. But it’s like, look at people’s, you know, picture perfect snapshots in a moment. But what’s missing is the real, crazy chaos that isn’t, that is life. And that, I think that’s what makes us feel like imposters is we look around and be like, everyone else has it together. I must not belong here.
EH (23:06):
Yep. And we all have this disease, this disease that thinks we are the only ones that want it. It’s so funny cuz I, you know, I do corporate workshops all the time. A lot of ’em with executives and, and uh, they’re sort of like, well, yeah, I want it. But I, you know, I, I did my town hall the normal way because I, I, I assumed everybody else wanted the normal structure and the da da, da, da. And um, you know, what I say is authenticity in business and work is sort of like, and you know, this you’re in the thick of this, you know, when you take the boys to a birthday party, one of those birthday parties where like they might do the bouncy house and then they, you know, they all all go do the pizza and then they do the cake. Right. And you’re all stand, you know, the parents are standing around the perimeter and they get done with the, you serving the kids, the cake who just like grab it and ask for another piece. And, and then they come around and they ask the parents, would you like a piece now? What do most parents say?
AJV (24:02):
Oh, no. Good. I’m good. Thank you.
EH (24:04):
What are most people think? Most parents thinking,
AJV (24:07):
Yeah. I ask some
EH (24:09):
AJV (25:17):
Oh my gosh,
EH (25:18):
That’s my kumbaya moment. Huh.
AJV (25:19):
Oh, but it’s so true. It’s true. I think we’re all in search and desire of a little bit more of that in our lives right now. And probably always, but I feel like there’s definitely an era. There’s an aura right around, at least in my circle of going, I need that. I want that. And I didn’t notice that five years ago, um, maybe it’s me. Right? Maybe it’s like, I’m just more in tune to it today than I was before. Cause it’s more important to me, but I do notice there’s this more trend of man. It’s like, you know, and I think this is a great transition to your study and what I, I don’t agree with that. There’s this great resignation I do agree with. There’s a great reevaluation. And I think a lot of that has to do with everyone, having a chance to step back and go, what am I doing and why am I doing it? And do I want to moving forward? Yeah. A lot of it has to do with who, not just what, and so I wanna know, like why did you go the research route? And then what did you find in this national research study when it comes to authenticity?
EH (26:23):
Yeah. So, you know, it went, the research were out for a few reasons. One, um, quite frankly, I always wanna be standing out and you know, I’m so glad I wrote my book. I love my book. People love my book. Everybody writes a book. Um, so part of of it was just strategic. Like not everybody does research, right. Let me do something that stands out. But I’d say just as much, if not more than that, you know, what I talk about is so impactful to people, but it, it can feel so much like fluffy unicorn voodoo, right. And, and, and nobody had really, you know, quantified it, a lot of the, you know, articles out there.
EH (27:13):
And I had pieced together and, you know, in my keynotes and things, I’d pieced together, different studies, right. Line of sight towards this data showed this, this data showed this and therefore right. Authenticity actually will get you more money is essentially the, the story. Um, but nobody had done that. And um, yeah, I mean, I, I laugh because you know what I talk about now, I’m like, you know, for three years I’ve been obsessed with authenticity, but I’ve, you know, largely been making this stuff up
AJV (27:56):
Yeah. I think it’s really powerful. Like one of the things that I, I get kind of like to what you said, and it’s the same reason we did research right. On personal branding. It’s like, man, we think all of this, but is it right? Is it true? And I think a lot of it isn’t like, wouldn’t have mattered to us because it’s like, but we still believe is still what we believe, but it was also just really amazing to go. We’re not the only ones, but then to also be pleasantly surprised about where we were potentially wrong or different. Right. Maybe wrong isn’t the right word. But it was like, it helped shape our perspective even on what we did and going, yeah. Like I do see that alternative and it allowed us to go really deep and an area that wasn’t even in our purview before.
AJV (28:42):
It’s like, I love data. I, I love, I’m such a nerd. Like this is like such my thing. Like that’s probably what one thing that people don’t know about me is like, I’m a real nerd. Like I love data. I love spreadsheets. I love geeky things. Um, my husband always says, that’s why you love me. And I’m like, yes, that’s why I love you. I love nerds. Um, it’s like nerd better for me. Um, and so I wanna know it’s like, if you had to like pick out like what were like the two or three biggest moments, ahas, whatever it was like, what were some of the biggest things that came outta the study that you feel like, I don’t care who you are. You need to know this.
EH (29:17):
Yeah. I would put them in a couple categories. Um, the first is there are a couple where the magnitude of confirming our theory or our thesis was kind of blew our mind. Uh, and those, you know, those were a couple of them, you know, you talk about the great resignation, but let, let’s just call it talent retention, which when I do corporate workshops, I always start, especially with the executives, you know, what’s the number one issue you’re facing. Cause I want them to know we’re solving issues. We’re not there doing fluff and it’s retention, retention, acquisition, talent, talent, talent, you know, and what was interesting. So I’ll tell you what we found. So we asked, um, one question, simple question. How much is authenticity practiced in your organization? And on that question, we did a Likert scale. So you know, all the time, you know, 5, 5, 5 scale liker, um, scale, and then like 10 questions later, we simply asked them, will you, do you think you’ll be working for your employer two years from now?
EH (30:15):
And then we pieced together those two questions. And we found that the people that scored the top of the Likert scale, like it’s always practice authenticity. So they have authentic culture were 92% likely to still be at their employer two years ago. And it literally drew a line like this, like 84%, 72%, 60 some percent, and then not practice at all. It was 40%. So the correlation between an authentic company, culture and employee retention was, you know, just perfect and magnified. Another one that the magnitude was, it was crazy. We asked people, um, is your leader authentic? Yes or no? Just a simple question. Yes or no. And then again, like eight questions later we asked, um, if your leader were, were to leave the organization, would you follow them? And people that said yes to the first question that their leader was authentic were four times more likely to follow them.
EH (31:11):
If they went somewhere else, 400%. And we found that correlation with trust. We also asked, you know, about the authenticity, the authentic culture. And then we looked at a statement that said, um, do you agree with this? There’s a high level of trust in our organization. And we found those with the, you know, the highest authentic culture. It was like, it was also a four times magnitude of trust. Um, so we saw, we saw, you know, basically our thesis was blown away in terms of the numbers. And then on the, the other category, I would say the surprising things, right? The things that we sort of didn’t expect, a couple things really stood out. Um, one were around executives. Um, so many people, right. Have this myth. It’s like, yeah, I wanna do authenticity or I wanna authentic culture, but right. The guy, you know, those dudes at the top, the people, you know, the executives at the top, they’re not authentic.
EH (32:02):
And it was interesting when we asked, for example, that simple question, is your leader authentic or not? When we looked at the three different job types. So we, we basically said, are you an executive leader? Are you an, an executive manager or something like that, a non-executive manager or a non-manager. So those three categories and the people that said yes, the most that their manager was authentic were the executives. And why that’s so important is that the people at the top are actually, as they’re hanging out, they’re having their one-on-ones, they’re having their meetings. They’re super authentic, right. They have these great relationships, but then as they face out to the organization, whether it’s through town halls, you know, part of the devil is the corporate com team
EH (32:58):
Yeah. Cause they have their scripts written for them. They have their handlers, they, you know, that they, they might feel like, you know, they have to Polish up or people won’t have confidence in them. And the reality is the executives are, are seeing their, their own bosses as the most authentic in the company. So that was interesting. And another surprising one was, um, that I was really curious about a sense of top sensitive topic, which is around, um, you know, black and other people of color, you know, this question. Yeah. But can they be authentic, right? Like there’s this, you know, feeling that it’s harder for them, uh, or it’s not as, as inter or as easy. And actually our data found that it was pretty much flat and there were a few places where there was not much of a statistical difference. Um, but we found in almost all of the questions, like, do you feel you can be authentic at work?
EH (33:52):
How important is authenticity at work? Um, et cetera, et cetera. It was about the same. And then the, the last thing around diversity, we found, we asked a question, um, if you’re looking for a new job, which of these factors are most important and we gave them eight factors and the top two were pay benefits, of course, and then flexibility, uh, which makes a lot of sense. The next two were authentic culture and authentic leader. And then what’s most important is what was below those below authenticity, quite significantly was the company has values that I believe in which we talk all the time about, right. Especially like the millennials and gen Z, they wanna work for a company has the same. That was actually lower. Um, getting the experience I need to build my resume, you know, basically was below that. Um, and then diversity of the company was actually last. And what I say about that is it’s not that diversity doesn’t matter, but it’s a great point. That diversity is all for. Not like if you check all the boxes, right. And you have all the percentages and numbers, if people can’t be themselves
AJV (34:58):
That’s right.
EH (34:59):
And so, you know, really authenticity in the terms of diversity, it’s, it’s the Trump card. Uh, and so that was, that was pretty interesting to see as well.
AJV (35:06):
Yeah. I think that speaks a lot too. It’s like, are you checking the diversity, uh, button versus is this an authentic, real part of our culture? Right. And it’s like, you know, even as a woman, it’s like, am I on this board because I’m checking your female card or is it because you generally want me here? And it’s like, I question that all the time. It’s like, I don’t wanna be your checkbox. Thanks. But no, thanks. Mm-hmm
EH (36:13):
Yeah, I mean, well, so, you know, I would not in the research, but I, what I would say it’s because people have four decades and decades, watch people not take the cake
AJV (36:23):
Yeah.
EH (36:24):
At the birthday party. And they’ve been so programmed that nobody wants the cake, or it’s not cool that they take the cake. And, you know, we just emulate what we see in front of us. It’s the same thing our kids do. Right. They, they emulate what we do, same thing in business. Like I always joke, like some dude in 1965 was really successful being stuffy and like having a process and people started to replicate it. Right. And it just regenerated. And then, you know, 30, 40 years later we’re like, oh crap, maybe that wasn’t the right formula. Um, but it’s, it’s about emulation because, because I know this because part of the reason I was able to start my experiments and get addicted and have that different game, that different path is because I had a father that I watched every day, come home and tell stories.
EH (37:09):
He was a teacher. And then, and then he retired and sold real estate. And he would tell story after story, basically of how, how incredibly authentic he was as a teacher and the funny things he had to do with the kids and the way he would discipline through a totally different manner. And so I got to see right people, I saw somebody eating the cake and then I was also very lucky, one of my first bosses, um, that took a big, uh, risk on me. She was the leader of our international division and she also demonstrated this authenticity. And again, it wasn’t just a permission cuz I didn’t just see her do it, but I saw her results. I, I ran her strategic planning. I knew our numbers every year we were growing the business. And so I got to tie together both the permission to be like that, but also that it created success.
EH (37:56):
And that’s why I’m out doing what I’m doing and trying to find as many people, right. To plant the seed because it’s simply that we have to start seeing something different to emulate that is not only more relieving and more fun, but you also are like, holy crap, look at the results they got. And I think you’re starting to, I, I, you know, it’s so funny in the entrepreneurial to, you know, kind of go to the entrepreneurial side of the house, you know, I, listen, I consume tons of stuff. Right. And part of brand builders is I listen to podcast. And so often I’ll hear people go, oh like, oh, this is such an interesting trend that I see. And they don’t call it authentic. And I sort of laugh and I’m like, like it’s authenticity. That’s why it’s working. Right. It’s you know, and people call it different things, but you’re seeing it all the time in the entrepreneurial world.
EH (38:44):
You’re seeing it LinkedIn, a huge trend. You know, I just listened to an episode of him, the LinkedIn guy that’s part of NSA. And he was like, yeah, she’s like stock photos. And um, you know, curated basically CAMBA picks don’t do well. It’s the, it’s the natural pictures. I was like, authenticity, you know? So I’ll hear things and I’m like, authenticity. I’m like, it, it works. It’s just about being aware of it, doing that experiment, collecting your own data for data geek. Like you, it literally is like collect the data to be like, Hmm. They open that email. Hmm. They listen to me when they normally are like distracted. Hmm. We sold more of this when we did this and then going, huh? Maybe if I do more than that, it’ll it’ll get better results.
AJV (39:28):
Oh, this is so good. I could literally talk about this for like three hours because I do think it’s something that we all so desperately need. And to me it doesn’t matter if you, again, I said this earlier, a manager or an owner, an executive, it’s like an employee, a, you know, part-time direct sales person, a retail shop employee. It does not matter. It’s like this impacts all of us. Like no matter what your role is, no matter what you’re doing, a parent, a teacher, um, it doesn’t matter a friend, a spouse, like
EH (40:32):
Yeah, you can go to be authentic ink.com. It’s just the letter B authentic inc.com/slash research. That’s a month.
AJV (40:47):
Show notes, but B authentic inc.com/research. And yes, we will put it in the show notes. And if Aaron, if people wanna just connect with you, um, to connect with your more authentic self, uh, all over online, where should they connect with you?
EH (41:02):
Yeah. I mean, you can go to my website and just check out all the things, but I, where I’m most active is LinkedIn. Um, I’d love to connect on LinkedIn. I am the only Aaron Hatti in the world. So if you can spell it, you can find me.
AJV (41:14):
Wow. That’s so funny because I’ve been saying Erin Hopsy for oh, oh,
EH (41:19):
That’s actually, that’s actually even better. Hoy Costa. You’re giving it the Mediterranean flare. I’m giving it the American, like you wanna try to spell it?
AJV (41:28):
I was like, that is like, you got it. I was like, Rory always tells me that he was like, they like, I don’t know what you hear, but you don’t hear the real words you just make. He’s like make up like all the words to songs. It goes, these are not the words. And I’m like, you’re not, I dunno what you hear, but it’s not what it is. Um, thank you so much for coming on. I love this. Thank you for bringing this topic to the table and also bringing in a way of like, how do we use this to better communication, better. Our leadership just better our relationships, right? It’s just like the more that you can be authentic, right? It’s like it has this domino effect of positivity and impact no matter where you go. And yes, that will lead to bigger, better jobs and more pay and stronger relationships and all the things. And thank you for bringing it to the table, but also in a light of like, how do we take this and apply it and see it in a different way where it’s not like you do you boo, but it’s like, Hey, like there is power in this. This is how you do it. I love this. I love you. Y’all got go check out this study, go follow Erin, go connect with her on LinkedIn. And then, uh, make sure you come back here next, uh, time on the influential personal brand. We’ll see you later.