Ep 80: What Its Takes to Make It On Television with Kristin Giese

Today’s show is a rare occurrence because we’re introducing you to someone who is neither a client nor someone from the industry that we know personally. Her name is Kristin Giese, and she cold pitched us to be on the podcast. We hear from at least four people every week who want to come on the show and we turn down most of them, but in this instance, a couple of factors played a role in us inviting Kristin on. She has outstanding results and her message is of direct relevance to our audience. She is a talent manager and executive producer who has worked with Miss USA, The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, The Real Housewives, and has sold TV shows to NBC, TLC, Bravo, and has made 79 bookings on The Oprah Winfrey Show. You get the picture.

In this episode, Kristin gives listeners a glimpse into the world of television, focusing on what it takes to make it and have longevity in this medium. What is clear is that you won’t come far if you want to use TV as a vanity project because it’s all about the audience and what they want. Television is first and foremost about entertainment and the shows that make a lasting impression also touch the audience in some way. Kristin talks about the importance of having good content and a strong character, what it means to heighten your authenticity, how your ego can trip you up, and she advises on getting into the space and pitching your idea.




  • Learn why you might not be as ready for reality TV as you thought you were.
  • Keeping the audience in mind rather than using television as a vanity project.
  • How The Oprah Winfrey Show became such a widely popular television show.
  • Identifying the ‘big pink dinosaur’ of your personal brand that draws people in.
  • Understanding that television is foremost about entertainment that moves us in some way.
  • Why talk shows are so difficult to get into and what it takes to become the next Oprah.
  • The importance of having both great content and character to be successful.
  • What is means to bring heightened authenticity to your presence on television.
  • The three E’s to make an impact: elevate, emotional connection, and empowerment.
  • Thoughts on the extent to which heightened authenticity is natural or learned.
  • Why ego is your worst enemy when it comes to connecting with and serving the audience.
  • Shifting from selling a product or service to getting people to buy into your philosophy.
  • What Kristin looks for in a potential television personality from a producer’s point of view.
  • Advice for entering the television space: prepare to be rejected and be relentless.


You have to stop thinking about television as a vanity project for yourself and really think about what television means to the audience.” — @allmoxie [0:05:38]

“You need to think about in your brand, what is your ‘big pink dinosaur’ that is out in the middle of the desert that would compel people to want to drive out and visit it.”—@allmoxie [0:06:56]

“For anything that you are developing in your own brand: content is king, character is queen, and forever shall they reign.” —@allmoxie [0:11:46]

“You are never beginning a conversation with, ‘I have this thing that I want to sell to you.’ It always begins and ends with, ‘I have this thing that I want to share with you. The selling becomes the byproduct of that.’”— @allmoxie [0:28:07] 

About Kristen Giese

Kristin Giese, author of Unverified, is a talent manager, brand developer, and executive producer who began her career building the entirety of the Nate Berkus brand, amongst other talents as well as partnering with the likes of The Oprah Winfrey Show, OWN, Sony, Target, TLC, NBC, P&G, GMC, and so many more. Her love for estate jewelry is only outmatched by her commitment to vintage kimonos and her family. Unverified is her 1st novel.


Speaker 1: (00:00) It is very, very rare that this happens. What you are about to experience, which is that we bring on a guest who is neither a client of ours, nor somebody from the industry that I know personally, but somebody who cold pitched us for our podcast. And I’ll explain why we accepted this person. You know, in our podcast power event, we talk about you being the host and we talk about pitching yourself to get on other shows. And we get pitched, I would say four to five times every single week from different PR firms. We turn almost every single person down, but there’s a couple of things that happened here that I want you to understand right up front as we dive into this. Okay? So first of all, you’re, you’re about to meet Kristin Giza who is becoming my new friend and you’re going to love her. Speaker 1: (00:53) But the reason I had her on the show is because of exactly what we talk about in podcast power. There’s, there’s two things. So first of all, what are your results, right? Like leading with the results. And here’s what Kristen has done. We’re going to talk about TV, we are going to talk about TV shows, how to get on them, how to pitch them, how does the world of TV work for personal brand specifically? And her team tailored their pitch specifically to our audience. They showed that they cared, that they knew what our audience was about and she was relevant because she speaks on something directly to y’all and you know, to why to why you’re here. So she is a talent manager and an executive producer herself. She’s worked with miss USA, the bachelor, the bachelorette, real Housewives chefs, hairstylists. So all these personal brands. She has sold shows, TV shows to NBC TLC in Bravo. She sold the talk show with Oprah. She has 79 times booked Oprah show bookings. And she has launched products that have been into target and HSN. And so this was a specific niche, a specific expertise that was relevant to our audience that their team TaylorMade and she had the results to back it up. And that is why Kristen Giza is here and I’m so excited for y’all to meet her. She’s great. So Kristen, welcome to the show. Speaker 2: (02:24) Thank you so much. You know what, I feel like hearing that intro, I feel a bit like, and when you parked too close to the car next to you at the mall and somehow you miraculously get the door open just enough to slide in and get behind the driver again. Cause it’s like you can’t, you can’t open the door wide enough and yet somehow you’re like, I’m going to fit in here. I’m going to get in this car and get out of this mall at Christmas time. I hate all these people. That’s what I feel like when you intro me that way, that some, Oh I opened it just enough to integrate in. So I appreciate it. We suck in and we slide into that door Speaker 1: (03:00) And then you get into the car and you’re so comfortable. So I want to talk about TV because one of the things that y’all, your team pitched me with, which I agree with, is that everybody wants to be on TV, but they have no idea what it actually takes and why they are not ready. So tell let, can you talk to me about that, right. Like everyone that’s listening here is a personal brand. They are somebody that is building an audience. They have an audience of some type. Why aren’t most people ready for TV and what does it, and now we’re not talking about actors, like most of our clients are not actors we’re talking about, you know, their dream is to, you know, to be like shark tank or profit or it’s reality TV of some type. Now we do have clients that have been on the bachelor and we have some reality TV shows, but, but what does it take to be on reality TV and what does a person need to know about? Like how do you get selected for that and what do you need to be if you want that to be you. Speaker 2: (04:00) Yeah, I think the interesting thing, first of all, I’d like to say right off the bat, television is not a vanity project. So people spend a lot of time ruminating on this high-minded desire of what they might like to do on television and how they’re going to change the world. By what they can bring to television and how they are so far evolved from anything that is on television. And when is the last time that you turned on television and thought this is so high minded and so such documentary dial level, like, you know, you’re watching like duck dynasty, you know, so it’s like you have to stop thinking about television as a vanity project for yourself and really think about what television means to the audience. You know, when you talk about those Oprah bookings and all those shows that I brushed up against with the Oprah Winfrey show the magic of Oprah being in Chicago was that she had an amazing crowdsourcing to what many people in the middle of America were wanting and tuning in for. Speaker 2: (05:00) And she was listening and then she was delivering upon the deal that she made. Excuse me. What the audience. Oh my goodness. And so if you’re not doing that, then you’re not going to find your way onto television. I like to say, you know, when you drive out into the desert or into the country, wherever you’re on a road trip, and they have a giant paper, Mashiach taco or dinosaur, like the one on Peewee Herman, like that big giant dinosaur that’s just in her middle of nowhere and everyone, it’s so kitschy and everyone gets in their car, especially nowadays, and they drive out there so they can take their Instagram pictures with the dinosaur and throw up their peace signs and they’re on this amazing road trip and it’s kind of tacky, but it’s kind of art. It’s kind of cool, but it’s kind of weird. Speaker 2: (05:55) That’s what television you need to think about in your brand. What is your big pink dinosaur that is out in the middle of the desert that would compel people to want to drive out and visit it? That’s what is a seed of an idea that will work for people then to tune into. And because you come up with your big giant dinosaur and it’s just tacky enough and it’s just spectical enough and it’s just interesting enough for people to engage in. That gives you permission then to have the cool town down the street that has the cool cafe and the cool art gallery and all the other elements of your brand that are a bit more of you and a bit more rooted in the core of your brand. But this is the spectacle part of your, Speaker 1: (06:44) So if I understand your metaphor there, you’re just saying like, Hey you, it’s, it’s sort of like where you have to, it’s almost like you have to play the game of what is in order to be able to have the benefits of, of, of, you know, the other ancillary benefits that would come to you. So you’re saying directly that Hey, yeah, television isn’t inherently to be high minded. It’s not to be like evolutionary, it’s not to be this like, you know, really profound level of thinking. So if it’s not that, what is it like you give us the sobering reality of like, this is what TV is specifically. I think we’re probably talking about reality TV because I think that’s what applies to our audience, right? We’re not actors, but we are, you know, Marcus Limonus like what happened with the prophet blew up his career. Speaker 1: (07:35) Mel Robbins has her talk show coming out right now. She’s somebody that a lot of us know. You’ve got you know, even though the talk show host, Oprah Winfrey would be a good example. What’s happened with the shark tanks. The people on the bachelor and some, you know, we have, we have one of the mega stars from the bachelor that’s in our roster. But then it’s also like, he’s trying to parlay that into a real sustainable career. So what is it, if it’s not high-minded, like profound thinking, what would you call it? Speaker 2: (08:06) Yeah, I mean, first of all, it’s entertainment first and foremost. And in any good entertainment, it touches us, moves us, or gives us some level of takeaway. And so of course there’s television, that timeline, they’re 60 minutes there, CBS Sunday morning, there’s documentaries on HBO. There’s all of that, and if that’s the space that you’re in, absolutely. If you are that, that next version of Anthony Bordain that somehow gets the golden ticket to sort of do something that feels really elevated, then keep striving for that. But largely television is built in ensembles. It’s normally not just a solo venture, so there’s a lot of shows where you’re going to be partnered with someone else. Most shows, with the exception of talk shows that you work on where it might be helmed by that person, which, which let’s be real. There is a very large graveyard of talk shows that fail. Speaker 2: (08:58) There are more dead bodies in that graveyard than there are success stories and it’s, it’s very, the air is very thin up there for the people that actually make it all the way down the line to get what it is to, to develop an actual talk ship where it’s solo led, like Oprah or Ellen or Ellen or something of that fact. And it normally for, for a studio you’re talking like they’re, they’re already like $40 million in when they’re trying to launch a new talk show. So the chances of someone unexpected getting a talk show, which we hear a lot in our, in our business, I’m the next Oprah and it’s like, I don’t know, I’m not so sure, but okay, if that’s true, you better recognize all the journey that it takes to get to that level. So talk shows are so challenging on so many levels, largely talking about reality. Unscripted. Speaker 1: (09:53) Yeah. So just to pause on that right now too, because it’s like, talk shows to me, it’s kind of like traditional book publishing. You go to them when you have a platform, like, like Kelly Clarkson is a new one, right? And it’s like, because she’s Kelly Clarkson, she’s already bringing the audience to the show. And even Mel Robbins, I think she would be kind of a lower level of that. But going, she built this monster social media empire. She’s not just some random person out of nowhere that’s going to show up and be the next Oprah. She spent decades building an audience that’s following her to talk TV. Right, right, right. Speaker 2: (10:31) 100%. Right. And so when you look then at scripted and at versus unscripted, which is a space that we’re talking about, a lot of unscripted television could work as scripted. You know, when you look at real Housewives, you can almost here the versions of desperate Housewives, which was on ABC that Martin Jerry created a decade ago. You can feel the nuances of character and content in an, in an ability for the audience to plug into those personality. So like anything that you’re developing in your own brand content is King, character is queen and forever shall they reign. If you have content but you don’t have the character, your personal brand on Instagram isn’t going to take off, let alone getting on television. It’s the same on television. You have to have the character and the ability to know who you are and be authentic and be heightened as well, to heighten your authenticity, to heighten your charisma, tightened your personality in these bolder ways. Speaker 2: (11:35) Just like the camera adds 10 pounds, the camera also diminishes personality unless you heighten it and ratchet it back up. Which is the large part because everything is edited down. So if you’re not high energy the whole time you’re doing it, the three things that they cut out of your and, and, and edit down, suddenly you’re like, you’re less energy because you didn’t sustain that high energy the whole time. You have to be thinking of all of those things from a character perspective and from a content perspective, just like anything you would do in your brand, you have to think about what is the audience getting in this bargain that we’re making with them? What is the takeaway? Is it just engagement? Is it or entertainment? Is there an emotional engagement? Is there an element of learning? And how then are we adding the lens of entertainment? So you have to think like a producer. I think that people think well that’s what a production company is for. They’re going to know what I should do. That never works. Just like when you want a client to pay you to put money in your pocket to hire you for your coaching or your personal chef duties. If you don’t tell them exactly what you should mean and why you should matter, they won’t know what to do with you, not even TV producers. Speaker 1: (12:59) So, okay, so that’s, that’s so good. Like the, the, the heightened authenticity. And we talk about that even with podcasting, that the, the energy transference through the microphone, there’s a drop of like 50%. So it’s like if you’re not bringing the heat on, your show’s gonna suck because it’s boring. Like and, and so the key, I want to talk about the character thing though because I love that phrase that you use heightened authenticity because it’s still authentic. Because at some point you’re going to burn out if you’re in authentic. But it’s also, it’s also amplified. How do you find that balance and how do you know what character you should be? Like you said, you said something about you have to realize the, the, what is the ability of the audience to see themselves in those characters? What does all that mean and how do you, how do you kind of go, Oh, this is the character I am like, this is, this is the character I should play. Speaker 2: (14:03) Yeah. Well, we, we fuel everything that we do through our three E’s. So every project that we touch, it needs to feel elevated. And I’m talking that that pink dinosaur in the desert can still feel elevated based on the experience that you give to people when they get there. So there needs to be an elevation to what you’re doing. The audience needs to feel empowered by what you’re doing and they need to feel emotionally connected to what you’re doing. And so even in that, I think this, to me, this applies to everything that you do. Whether you’re writing a book, whether you’re going on the today show, whether you’re going on a podcast, you are delivering on these three E’s consistently and in television you better deliver on these three E’s. You better find the way to elevate within you’re doing. So that way you can get noticed on camera. Speaker 2: (14:53) That way what you’re delivering within the exchange is important. That, that how you’re contributing to the cast feels of benefit. You know, there’s a difference between someone that can play well in a group of an ensemble and contribute in a way that furthers what’s happening. And then there are people that are just constantly trying to contribute and get in and get in and get in and they become a detractor. You’re ultimately going to get edited out because you’re just trying to get in on the goods as opposed to sort of being that really elevated heightened authenticity that you, Speaker 1: (15:26) You’re talking about like the bachelor there, like that kind of a thing of like, are you just trying to get into the camera? Right. So there’s a difference between I’m playing well with others and I’m a part of the scene and then I’m just trying to be in like I’m just trying to be famous and be in it versus someone who’s being heightened authentically. That it, it, it raises the whole, it moves the whole group forward. It moves the cast forward, it moves the show forward. Speaker 2: (15:53) Correct. And I think you can feel, I mean, one of the, one of the biggest deals I guess that we had that we should talk about is ego. And I don’t, I’ve never met a single person who has said the phrase, I think I want to be on television that does not have some level of ego invested in what that is. And so you have to find a way to harness that. So the ego, your ego isn’t what leads you into the room. Sometimes you will get casts because here you go leads you into the room. As a producer, we need people on camera whose ego is completely out of whack because that gives us drama. Speaker 1: (16:30) You need conflict. Yeah. Speaker 2: (16:33) And all of that is relevant and important and the audience needs it to further the story. You know, that is art and PS, anyone who’s been on television knows this. We’ve already identified and arc of where we think the characters will go within the episodes based on what we’re doing. So sometimes that is surprising and they go other ways and sometimes there’s mechanisms that encourage them to go certain ways. In reality television. So there’s that whole side too, depending on how you’re looking to join the game. You know, if you’re going to be cast on a show like bachelor, there’s definitely going to be mechanisms that are imposed upon you in order to create that drama. If you are going to be the next Martha Stewart and you are bringing about a heritage cooking show, it’s a different type of mechanism that you’re working with the producers to develop that, the stakes of what’s going to happen in that show. Speaker 2: (17:29) But there’s always going to be mechanisms in stakes that we’re creating as producers to bring that about. But you know, so you’re, to go back to your question, you know, you are looking at that heightened authenticity. You’re answering these things for yourself. You’re aware that you’re going to be edited in some capacity. You’re aware that you’re going to become a part of an ensemble and these other people are going to be pushing and pulling you in different that way. And so in every situation without it being obvious to the camera, because you’re still have to be present in, in it and participating, you have to find a way to, to deliver on those three E’s, to elevate and be of importance and, and to have, take up space in the best possible way. You have to find a way to emotionally connect. And that doesn’t just mean that you share something for the sh the sake of sharing it because you think this is my hook that’s going to get the audience. Speaker 2: (18:27) You are legitimately emotionally connecting to the situation. And then most important, almost everyone that you think about on television that you enjoy somehow empowers you or gives you something that you feel you’re invested in them and you’re giving yourself permission to be invested in them because of how they are changing you in some way. Oprah certainly did these three E’s exceptionally well. You know, we tuned in for that hour and there was a bargain we were going to show up as we were cooking dinner and we were going to have an experience on all these levels. And it’s the same for every show. It’s the same for bachelor. It’s just a different bargain. It’s just, we know that the exchange of currency is a bit more drama and a bit more salacious than if we’re tuning in for 60 minutes. But every show makes this bargain with the audience and it’s always about the audience. That’s the thing. Speaker 1: (19:35) Yeah. And that’s the same about speaking, which is I was my background. Like I am a, I’m a hall of fame speaker, so classically I, I am a stage performer. I know you did your first comedy set last year, which was, which was cool. I saw that. You know, I was, I was doing standup comedy in early two thousands when I was in grad school, not because I ever wanted to be a comedian, but because I wanted to be a, you know, a business speaker. And I knew I had to be funny, but that, so, so coming back to the character, you talk about Oprah, right? And just this concept of heightened authenticity, which I think is super, super powerful. How much of heightened authenticity is natural versus learned? Cause it’s not acting, but it’s a, it’s an intentional choice of like, Oh, I’m going to play this character, I’m going to play this role. Speaker 1: (20:31) Versus just like blind luck. Like, you know, like you talked about the ego person. I, you know, I’ve never been a producer of a show, but I have to think if I was going to produce the bachelor, I would be intentionally grabbing some of the most outlandish characters just because they’re completely self unaware of how insane they are because that creates the drama and the conflict for TV. Like nobody wants to watch grass grow, we need conflict like we have. And so I’m grabbing that person who’s like self unaware deliberately. So, but then you go, I don’t think, you know, like is Oprah playing a character? Is she just being herself? Like was a lot of that coached into her or was it just like that was just who she was coming out? Speaker 2: (21:13) No, I think the people, well who do, who are truly able to find to find that, well, when I say heightened authenticity, you’re tapping into that, you know where it is and you know where the on and off switches. It’s not a different room with a different light every time it’s the same room. You just know where all the switches are and you know how to temper it. So you know, you’re in charge of, of that muscle so to speak. Oprah is one of those. I mean, there is a lot of truth then don’t meet your heroes because like I could tell you stories of people that I’ve met along the way where you’re like, I am good at this or isn’t as not nice. They were so mean to that server and I loved them. And X movie, you know, and it, it just brings you to your knees. Speaker 2: (22:00) But Oprah is exactly who you need her to be, who you’ve always known her to be for you. That is who she is because she is my wife in real life. She is, she is one of those rare people that means so much. Open means to me is different than what she means to you is different than what she means to my aunt Susie. She has meant something and touched us again. And that emotional content connection and that empowerment connection, she has empowered him, fueled each one of us differently. So when we arrive in front of her, she rises up to that version of herself every single time. I’ve, I’ve rarely seen something like it and, but the thread of what that is, the talent that I’ve worked with the most that have meant the most to their audiences have always been the talent that have something special. Speaker 2: (22:55) And it’s, it’s almost unquantifiable. But when you stand before them and they look at you and they speak to you, you want to be the person that you think they see when they’re looking at you. And that’s a very powerful thing when you are speaking with someone that your belief when they’re looking at you is that they see something special in you that you feel more special because of their gaze. It’s so powerful. And Oprah has it other amazing celebrities that we all know and love. They have a way of just in their personal power to hold space with someone that’s more about the person that they’re holding space then about themselves. And that is a skill that you can actually build over time. It takes the requirement of moving your ego aside and picking up sort of an energy frequency with the people that you were with in the most powerful performers. I have ever met have the capability to do that. Speaker 1: (24:07) Yeah. And it’s, it’s like a, it’s, it’s a skill. It’s, it’s, it’s almost like developing a character trait. It’s selflessness of going like, okay I see something in units. You know, there’s a beautiful phrase, I don’t do hot yoga anymore, but I, there was a season in my life when I did Bikram yoga and they, they have this, Mmm, no, I’m a stay. Right. Which it means the highest in Macy’s, the highest in world. Correct. And that is like the essence of what we’re talking about here. Right. Which is ironic because what you’re saying about ego, there is the enemy where it’s like, I’m not trying to too, I’m not trying to be in the camera. For me, I’m trying to draw the best out of you, which is the audience is like, I’m trying to create the best experience for the audience, not for me, for the audience. Speaker 1: (24:59) Okay. Correct. So I, I love that. And I, and I, and I love that this applies, you know, you mentioned probably most of the, most of our are most of our people, our tribe, you know, we call a mission driven messengers. That’s, that’s who we serve. Most of them are probably more likely to just be a guest on a show, you know, like they have a book launch or something. And yeah, you got on Fox news or the today show or something like that. Mmm. More than just pitching a show and just cause that’s a smaller number of people. But like would you say those three ease and being that heightened authenticity, is that part of what makes you a great guest? A great pick to go? Yeah, we can have you on good morning America because you have something empowering. But we also, you also have to still keep in mind that a part of what I’m doing there is I’m entertaining people while I’m there. I’m not just let me tell you about my book. I’m entertainment. Speaker 2: (25:53) Correct. And I think that people forget that there’s a lot of publicists. And that’s, that’s where I cut my teeth. That’s the roots of where I, where I grew up in, in entertainment. And a lot of publicists will tell people right out of the gate, you gotta be working your points. You’ve got to get in that you’re there to promote your book. And as an audience member, when the first question is, so you’re here in New York and you’re a, we heard that you have new show that’s going out and tell us about it. And the person says, well, I told you all when I wrote my book that came out as an audience. You’re like, Oh, gropes you know, and as the producer, you’re like, I’m not booking this person because your goal here was to deliver upon what we’re doing here. And that is putting on this show that is about the broader engine of the show. Speaker 2: (26:43) So it requires you, if you’re going to deliver on these things, cause you’re doing it all the time, it requires to hone the skill of how to do it. You know, there’s an important state, I’m saying in a Gar, salesmen taught me this, that I don’t want to sell you a car. I want to make you want to buy a car from me. So I’m about the car. I’m telling you everything about the car and you now are invested in me and you are invested in the story. I’m telling you about the car. Now you want to buy the car that is different than me selling you the car. And if you’re going to go on, tell me and do these things. You want people to want to buy the car. You’re not trying to sell them the car. And that is such an important it’s like flipping the other side of the coin and in, you need to practice that skill of, of the coin flip in order to get it right every time. Speaker 2: (27:37) Cause it’s hard. It’s hard to be there to deliver upon what they want you to deliver upon. Instill, get your messaging in. And the thing that we is the cornerstone of, of how to do it well is that you are never, not for an instant have I ever sold products or properties. I have only only ever sold philosophy. So all the years of selling product lines into target, moving shows on to television, launching books and publishing books, I was never selling any of those things. I was only ever like the master of the ShamWow selling you, evangelizing you on the power of the words, of the philosophy, of the belief of how this will elevate, empower, and emotionally support you. And when you connect into those things, that is the Trojan horse to want to go buy the publishing, the property and the product. Speaker 2: (28:43) And if you can learn how to do that, well, there is not a single room that you can’t walk into and nail the pitch, get the property, sell the project. It’s, it’s just the cornerstone because you’re not, you’re never beginning a conversation, but it never begins with, I have this thing that I want to sell to you. It always begins and ends with, I have this thing that I want to share with you, and the selling becomes then the byproduct of that, and that’s where the power is. I think in anything that you’re going to do, whether you want a producer to buy into an editor to buy into you or whatever your mechanism is. To me that’s the power source. Speaker 1: (29:24) So yeah, I love this so much. The, the yeah, you mentioned ShamWow and I was laughing for a second. So Kevin Harrington is one of our, one of our clients who was like, [inaudible] works, Speaker 2: (29:42) You know, I’m just going to show you this thing over and over and you like me and now you like this thing and you’re debating 10 years later I’m like, maybe I should still buy that sham. Wow. You know, and I know the name that just shows you, it affects you on these different levels Speaker 1: (29:58) Now as the producer. Okay. So you’re, you’re, you’re a producer. Like I mean you’re an author, right? You, you do, you’re doing these things, you have your own personal brand and stuff, but, but your daily, your J day job right now is like you produce shows, you pitch ideas to networks and to production companies. And, and when you sell a show, a part of what your role as a producer is, is selecting the talent who comes on the show. Speaker 2: (30:25) Gosh. Oh we could, we could unpack this for another three hours. Speaker 1: (30:28) Well here’s my question. Here’s my, my big question is how do you spot it in someone and what do you look for, right? Like as the producer, cause you’re kind of like, you’re the director, you’re the orchestra, you’re like the conductor. You’re the one that’s like got to pull all the pieces together between the audience and the talent and the production company. Right? Like that’s what you’re doing. Speaker 2: (30:50) I don’t, I don’t spot it. I feel it. So every single person that calls me that wants to work with us as talent management or production and they’re telling me who they are, they better make me feel who they are. And for every time that you tell them, feel free to cut that as a tweet it that that is what it comes down to. I need to feel you in, in the way of of what it is that you are bringing into this unit versus, and I mean I’m talking you could be honey booboo and that’s okay. If I feel it, what it can be, then we’re going to the dance. If you sit in front of me and first of all, don’t come to me and try and just talk at me or tell me or or proselytize to me who you are. Listen a lot more than you speak and find the way to help navigate through what we are looking for to then tell, to encourage us to have that connection with you. Speaker 2: (31:57) So many people come and sit before us and they just start telling me all the things that they are and the whole time maybe I’m thinking I feel something else for them that could get them to the dance, but they’re so busy telling me that all they want is a talk show like Oprah. And I know that those are all on the decline and they’re so adamant about what it is that they’re want that they want, that it starts to feel a bit like an unreal hell that you’re trying to talk into doing their homework. It’s just a battle that you don’t want to have, so I find it’s sometimes much better to begin with the question, so to say, let’s talk about the things that I am bringing into the world and let’s have you tell me a bit about what does that mean for the world? Speaker 2: (32:45) Is there a place for that in the world? How does this apply to the world? There’s a conversation that we could be having that a lot of people skip right over that and go to, whether it’s their brand, whether it’s television or whatever it is, they make it a vanity project. They sit in front of you and tell you what it is exactly that they’re going to do, and that’s for your vision board. That’s for your book on your bedside table that you write down every day. I’m going to be a millionaire and I’m going to, I do it too. I’m right there with you. We can compare crib notes all day long. I got it. We’re all vision boarding. I’m in it, I’m in it deep. But there is also when you vibrate at a frequency of I am pulling people into me that are going to inform where I’m going next. You actually have to connect energetically, hear from them, learn from them, and then apply maybe. Okay, now we’re going to go down this path and people miss that beat altogether. Speaker 1: (33:41) I love that. I mean, and that, that don’t tell me who you are. Make me feel who you are. I mean that is gonna is such a such a capstone of this conversation. I love this so much. The, the, Mmm. So real quick, I know this is, this is like a little bit off topic. Like we’ve been going so deep into like the character and the role that you play. Can you just give us a broad and like, I can’t believe this has gone way over time. But this is so good and I think unique. I think you have, you have such a unique perspective of, of what, you know, I think of what people normally see Kristen of just like living in this world for your whole career. And so if you were going to pitch a show, what are like, just the mechanics of that? Speaker 1: (34:35) Like what, you know, like if you get a book, like if you want to get a traditional book deal, we have a whole, we have a whole event, we call it bestseller launch plan, which is all about like, here’s how it works. You create a book proposal, you have the book proposal, you have your plan and the book proposal. You go to a literary agent, the literary agent says yes, they shop you to a publisher, publisher signs a deal. You get a contract. You know, it’s like there’s a, there’s a process that more or less as generally fall, I followed, I feel like TV for most of us is this like mysterious black box of like, we just think of it as like this lucky break of like you’re walking in the mall and somebody goes, Hey, you’re the next Oprah. But there’s, there’s a process to all this and, and for, for people like you who’ve, like you spent your life doing it. It’s second hand nature, but just like, what’s the high level, Hey, I got an idea for a show. How does that, how does that materialize from there? First of all, Speaker 2: (35:30) There’s hardly any new ideas. So that’s the first thing. Production companies have a very hard time making money right now because it’s so hard to sell shit. There’s so many shows that don’t actually get to air. It used to be that they bought 10 episodes, now they buy eight, sometimes they buy less. I would say by one they tested, it takes a year, then it doesn’t get the ratings, so they don’t buy the rest of the show. It’s basically the smell of desperation. Fear and failure in entertainment is like be prepared. You know, I don’t know, I’ve never been in a morgue, but like get the menthol ready because it is not pretty. So be prepared for so many nos. Be prepared to be violently unrelenting in your desire to pursue it. If there’s any part of you that’s like, I’m just gonna see what happens and go from there, you are never going to make it off the ground level because it’s going to fail and fail some more and fail and fail again. Speaker 2: (36:32) That’s, that’s first rule. Second rule, you were the driver like anything in your life. Show them what you can mean already. Start collaborating with friends already start creating content on Instagram live already. Start creating. Even YouTube show you the people who make it the furthest are the ones who are already creating the content that gives the roadmap for how people would use you. So find friends to collaborate with. Start doing it. Start dreaming up. Start trying new things. Show people what you could mean on a larger scale. Become an expert at understanding what all’s happening on television and what networks are buying and what they aren’t buying, so you can actually have a conversation with producers because a lot of the shows that people come to me and say, Hey, this is a show that I want to do is actually only a seed of an idea that would be a segment on a TV show. Speaker 2: (37:23) You actually have to think about how does this sustain for one whole episode and for 10 whole episodes in a season and you don’t make any money in season one, so how’s it going to get to a season two? Where are you going to go in it? It’s all of those things that you should start thinking of so that way it can go beyond just that one small five minute. This is how I would do it on, on the Rachael ratio. It needs to actually feel expandable and like I said earlier, a lot of ideas that work that are successful in television. You can see a version of them as a documentary, like the tiger King that then can become a film that we would all watch and get invested in. That could also become a series of a show with these really great characters that could also be a reality show. It can it like any good idea, you can mold it and fit it for the different formats and platforms that exist out there. So think in those terms. If it’s something that only applies to you and only you could do it, you’re going to have such a hard time selling it. Think in terms of does this idea and contract and then write your pitch, build your deck, get a Canva account, make it look sexy. You got to do all the things to sell it. Speaker 1: (38:45) So, okay, so just real quick on that. Okay, so that was you hummed over that. So yeah, the, I mean obviously the psychology is way more important. Functionally speaking, you’re going to write a pitch, just like a book proposal or a speaking proposal or any other proposals like show me something in writing and with pictures that kind of gets, helps me understand and articulate the concept. Correct. And then who do you send that deck to? Do you send it to a producer, to a production company, to somebody else? Is it just like, I mean, I know it’s kind of like send it to Frick and everyone and anyone who will listen to you until you like find the right person, but is it, who’s the gatekeeper there? Speaker 2: (39:24) I mean there are so many gatekeepers. That’s part of the problem. So you’re building those connections and networking and having conversations. If it’s truly a seed of an idea that is stealable, which they kind of all are, you’re going to want to be careful about how you talk about the idea. You know, so that way you can kind of try and protect it. I mean, I can’t tell you the number of times that I’ve been told no on a show pitch. And then a year later I see the same production company that I was pitching out there with a similar show, you know, so, and who’s to say maybe they had the idea at the same time. Again, there are no new ideas, so it’s, it’s really about how you layered in, but everything comes down to relationships in any industry and television is the same. Speaker 2: (40:09) Every connection, every business card, the number one thing that I can say, whoever decided that no one should have business cards anymore should be interrogated beyond. Because the number of times that I have said to talent that I actually am curious about like, hi, I’m Kristen do you have a car? And they’re like, you can find me on Instagram. I know that when I DM you, you probably won’t see it in DME back and now I am a lost connection to you and you never know who someone is or how they’re going to help you. And if you don’t find a way to concretely connect with them, don’t make me search for you because that is how doors don’t open. So be prepared at every turn for actually how to get ahold of someone. Speaker 1: (40:52) Totally. Well, and I, I hope you don’t take this as a slight, but like, you know, if I go look at your social media right now, I wouldn’t see millions of followers. But if I was sitting next to you on an airplane and be like, Hey, this is someone who’s booked 70 people on Oprah, it might be worth the conversation. And you just, you just don’t know. You know, on social media, everyone’s like drawn to like, you know, all the people with lots of followers. But it’s like, usually those aren’t the people who open the doors. It’s their assistant, it’s their talent manager, it’s their agent. Like those are the people who control the doors. Speaker 2: (41:26) Correct. And when you delve deeper into someone’s following, and then you start to see, Oh, that’s the head of, of this, of HSN. Oh, ahead of target. Oh, that’s ahead of that. And then you’re like, you have no idea who those people are because when you go to their feet, it’s just them with their kids. You don’t know that the people in my orbit and you’ve already discounted for whatever reason and it’s like you just lost one of your greatest leads, you need to great at such a high frequency of I am compelling these people into my orbit and then actually be smart enough to take advantage of that. You know the number of times that I’ve sat next to someone on a plane and later someone would be like, how’d you sit next to the head of development for HBO? And it’s, how’d that happen? It’s like I made that happen. I vibrated at such a high energy all the time at every turn. In order to make that happen, you have to vibrate at that level too and be smart enough to take advantage of it when it happens. Speaker 1: (42:23) So. Okay. I have one other question before we let you go. Before I do that though, where should people go if they want to connect with you, Kristen? Like if they want to like, you know, learn more and all that kind of stuff and just kind of like get plugged into what you’re doing. Speaker 2: (42:38) Yeah. All Moxy on Instagram. A. L. L. M. O. X. I. E. Speaker 1: (42:43) Okay, very cool. I think we’ll probably have you back again at some point or maybe we’ll just do a training for our members on like specifically TV pitching and stuff. But this is so, so powerful. So my last question for you is, is TV dead or dying? Like should we all be going the heck with a production company? Take your show idea and fricking make it yourself and build it on YouTube. Because that’s sort of what I’m starting to think is going by the time I would build the relationships and get to the people and make the pilot and get the first episode. And did we get the rating? It’s almost like, should we be thinking more of just like just build it, build it on your own or, or do you go now, you know, you really need to, like it’s still, it’s still TV. I think it’s a bit of both. I mean if you build it, they will come, right? So if you start doing it on, you prove that you have traction, then it will open. It speeds it up Speaker 2: (43:42) In creativity. Just again, having clever, you know, the first thing that we do with clients is say your Instagram, your social media is your resume. So show people exactly the types of cleverness, content, creativity that you have. So by the time they come to your page, now the alarm bells are going off. Now we’re connecting the dots of how to use you. That is, you know, it’s a paint by number, right? You’re over here shading in the lower corner there somewhere you don’t know. And somewhere all of a sudden you both arrived at the same spot and it all clicks. It’s like, Oh, this was the missing piece to this butterfly painting that we were making of your brand. And it comes together and you eventually, for as much as you can say like television is changing. Is it dead? Absolutely not. It’s not anywhere we, especially now we are all working from home at home, our connection to entertainment, sharing and watching television together, it’s, it’s going to get stronger again. It’s just that now we have to find more clever ways for us to bridge together and come together in the middle. So it’s a bit of both. Speaker 1: (44:50) I like it. I like it. Such a fantastic educational, stimulated conversation. My friends, I don’t know, you know, where else you would find Kristin, and that’s why she immediately jumped out to me as someone you had to meet. And I think my instincts were fully justified because of her spirit. And this has been so generous, Kristin, and so informative and honest and empowering and I think just insightful and anyways, we’ll help to stay in touch with you. We wish you the best. And thank you so much. Speaker 2: (45:22) Thank you. And forgive my moving boxes. I’m just still getting settled. It’s not normally the shabby around here, I promise. Thank you so much for having me.

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25 of the World's Most Recognizable Influencers Share Their Tips on How to Build and Monetize a Personal Brand

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