AJ Vaden (00:01.058) Hey everybody, welcome to the influential personal brand, AJ Vadin here, and I’m super excited to introduce you guys to Jamal Miller. Jamal and I happen to be in a mastermind together, and we met on an elevator with his then, at the time, very pregnant wife in Colorado Springs. before I formally introduced him, I just wanted you guys to know, he’s one of those people that emanates joy. He lights up the room, his energy is contagious, and even though some of you may be meeting him for the first time, I promise you, I ensure you, after this interview today, you’re gonna wanna follow him. I also wanna let you guys know who this episode is for. As you guys know, I always kinda tee this up so you know, like, hey, is this for me or not? Because if it’s for you, I’m telling you, it’s for you and you wanna stick around. to the very, very end. There’s no skipping minutes. Don’t get off early. This is one of those episodes. So how do you know if this is for you? If you feel stuck or have ever felt stuck or stagnant or even uncertain about where you’re going, maybe you’re in a season of transition, maybe you were doing something and now you’re trying to do something new or you were known for something and you’re trying to be known for something else or or maybe you’re in a season of successful transition and success isn’t really quite what you thought it would be. Or maybe you work with your spouse. Maybe you left corporate America to go all in on this entrepreneurial vision with your spouse and you’re going, I don’t think this is working. I think we might be in trouble here. If you fit in any of those categories, we’re gonna talk about all of those and then some. And I’ll tell you this real quick. Jamal in the last 30 days, he and his wife just got done with a $3 million dollar launch. And so if you’re just curious how to pull that off, then this is an episode that you want to stick around for. So, okay, I know you’re done wanting to listen to me, so let me give you a quick formal bio of Jamal Miller, and then we’re gonna jump into this very awesome interview. All right, here we go. AJ Vaden (02:14.754) Jamal Miller is the founder of the multi-million dollar Miller Media Group. He is a pastor at heart, so don’t be surprised if you get some pastoring today. He is also a purpose-driven entrepreneur. And as Rory and I also work together, I also love that him and his beautiful bride share this business together. He’s gonna take us behind the scenes on his incredible transformation from relying on food stamps just seven years ago to building one of America’s fastest growing media companies. And like I said, just came off last 30 days with a $3 million lunch, a launch, and also just 90 days ago had his fourth baby. So he’s got lots going on, but you’re going to hear about the heart and the mindset shift around strategic decisions that helped turn his side hustle into a scalable, impactful brand. And that my friends is why he is on the show today. So Jamal, welcome. Jamal Miller (03:14.428) my gosh, AJ, that was such a cool intro. I am super excited to be here. Much love to you and Rory for all that you’re doing. This podcast is game changing and so I’m super honored to be here. AJ Vaden (03:24.782) Oh my gosh, well I’m just so excited for this interview and selfishly, I just wanna know all of this stuff. And so if I have a big desire to hear it, I know that a lot of our listeners do too. So here’s where I wanna start, because I literally have like 36 questions lined up on my sheet and I know we’re not gonna get to 36 questions today. But I really want our audience to know you a little bit. And so I’d love to just help everyone. get to know you, like what’s your background, like how did you get to the point of food stamps, how did you all of a sudden get to this multi-million dollar business in seven years, like how did this all happen? Jamal Miller (04:02.6) Yeah, you I would say my story definitely is a story of… Where you start is not where you finish And so where you will end up and I think for many people like you said when you first started You know you may be in a transition you may be trying to pivot you may be trying to get out of your nine-to-five and come to entrepreneurship Or maybe you are currently in a brand or you’re branding yourself as something that you’re like I don’t want to do this for a little long haul How do I see how do I pivot and keep going will I make it will I make it through it? Will I be successful again? You know I think it was miles more that says the most the biggest challenge to success is having to overcome your last success, right? I think that’s the big thing that we’re all constantly looking at the last good thing we did, cannot do it again. And so that’s been our story. That’s been our journey. Where we started or where I would begin, you know, I definitely would say I am an accidental entrepreneur. This was not a part of the plan. This is not what I had in store. I’m sure for many of you watching or listening, more than likely entrepreneurship was not something you saw yourself doing. And I would say we are accidental entrepreneurs. It was about 12, 13 years ago. I was in Bible college, headed towards full time ministry, got my degree in theology. And I believe with all of me that the life that I was called to live ever since being a 16 year old that got just met by the love of God, the power of God met me in my bedroom. I did not grow up in a Christian home, but I felt I met God so early. And then in high school, I was a part of a Bible study that I helped create with a friend of mine. Jamal Miller (05:38.688) and for within two years, we were able to see 300 of our peers come to know Christ in those two years. And for me, it was like, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to help people meet the real Jesus. And I thought that was going to be in a church, right? I think most people think if you got a good preaching voice and you look good and you know how to stand in front of people, become a pastor, right? It was like, I fit the mold, right? And I was like, okay, I’m going be a pastor. guess that’s what it’s called. I guess that’s the career calling on my And so I went to Bible college. Where do I go to get trained to be a pastor? I went to Bible college got my degree in theology and I thought this was it my pinnacle my You know height of success will be pastoring planning a church and pastoring thousands of people and I accepted at that point AJ I said hey as long as I’m in the middle of God’s will and I’m making $40,000 for the rest of my life. As long as I’m doing what God is calling me to do, I am OK. Like I accepted a life of mediocrity in terms of finance and income in order to fulfill the call of God. But AJ, I’m grateful that God had other plans for me. so because, we ended up once I graduated Bible College, I. moved to Chicago, Illinois. I was in Dallas at the time, moved to Chicago as a single man. At the time, you know, I was part of a church plant there in Chicago. And I remember within three months of being, you know, at this church, I was the first staff member. I was the youth pastor. That’s kind of where most guys start when they’re trying to get their, go in ministry. I was a youth pastor and I remember, you know, one day just coming home and my apartment was super quiet. And I was like, God, this road is gonna be real lonely without my wife. You know, where is she? All right, I thought I would meet her in college, didn’t meet her there. I’ve been here for six months. Good Lord, I need you to show up because I am tired of being single. I’m tired of being alone. I’ve done everything I’ve known to do. Lord, where’s my wife? And AJ, the Lord said this to me. said, Jamal, you’re so focused on getting married. You have no idea what it takes to stay married. AJ Vaden (07:46.158) Mmmmm Jamal Miller (07:47.022) And I grew up in a home, my parents are still married, but they would not be an example of a happy, thriving marriage that I would want to say, hey, that’s exactly what I want when I grow up. And the Lord was right. And I said, well, God teach me how to be a successfully married man. And for two years, I read marriage books. I went to marriage conferences. I adopted marriage mentors as a single man. I began to live like a married man and it changed everything for me. And eventually I ended up meeting Natasha on Facebook and I saw her post one day on Facebook and I had no idea who she was. This is the time whenever you actually knew everyone and you’re on your Facebook feed. And I said, man, how do I not know who this girl is? And so I ended up sending her a DM. I had a lot of courage that day. And so yes, AJ, I slid in the DM. All right. And so. in the DMs and she actually responded back. And so we started communicating back and forth. Mind you, complete stranger. I don’t even know at this point how we were on each other’s Facebook friends, no clue. And I ended up learning that she was in California and we just started chatting. It took about six months until one day my pastor comes to me and he’s like, hey, what’s going on with your love life? I’m like, man, what love life? I ain’t got no love life. He’s like, so is there any potentials or anything? I said, man, no, there’s not. And he was like, well, what’s interesting is my wife, his wife, know, my pastor’s wife had a dream that I was gonna meet my wife in an unconventional way, right? And so he’s like, so is there, are you sure there’s no one that you were meeting or you’ve met? And I’m like, and soon as he said that, I’m like, well. Jamal Miller (09:33.246) There’s this girl that I met on Facebook. was like, nothing’s happened. Like we just been messaging back and forth. I’m like, but I mean, you know, she’s a really nice girl. And so he’s like, come over. He’s like, come over to the house. And I’m like, okay. So I go over to the house that night and I’m over at his house and he’s like, okay, so tell us what about this girl. And I’m like, well, I mean, I don’t know much. She lives in California. Da da da da da. And he’s like, well, show us a picture of her. And I’m like, okay. So I show him a picture on Facebook. He’s like, Jamal. She’s gorgeous. What are you waiting for? Like what’s going on? And I’m like, okay, so here’s the deal. I was like, this girl is a complete stranger. She lives all the way in California. He’s like, what’s the real problem? I’m like, okay, let’s talk about it. The reality is I am five six. How am I supposed to find out about how tall this girl is and she’s on the internet? I said, what if she’s taller than me? This is a real moment. AJ Vaden (10:05.834) you AJ Vaden (10:28.02) my gosh Jamal Miller (10:29.318) And he’s like, are you serious? So he like calls his wife and he’s like, hey, come here. We found Jamal’s wife. And so like, and so she goes through every photo of her on Facebook to gauge her height. And she’s like, yeah, Jamal, she’s not taller than you. If anything, she’s right at your height. Right. And so she and he’s like, message her tonight. AJ Vaden (10:35.534) you Jamal Miller (10:48.092) And I’m like, okay, so I get home and I like draw up the best message I can. Hey, Natasha, it’s Jamal again. I know we haven’t chatted in a while, but I just wanted to tell you the time that we have chatted, it’s been really amazing. And I just got out came from my pastor’s house and we just had a conversation about you. And I got his permission to ask if we could get to know each other better. And I would love to know if you’re interested in that. And AJ that. AJ Vaden (11:10.063) my gosh, that’s the best story! I love this! Jamal Miller (11:13.692) And the rest is history, you know, so she meshes back and it all just, you know, there’s a lot more to the story, but where our business comes into play, you’d be wondering, okay, how did this work towards business? So once we did get married, you know, we put our story on YouTube because so many of our friends and family had no clue how we met. So it wasn’t even about branding ourselves or reaching an audience. Y’all, we were just literally just like, what’s the best way to create a video so we can send it to friends and family so they know the story. Rory & AJ Vaden (11:33.215) I’m out. Rory & AJ Vaden (11:42.222) Mm. Jamal Miller (11:42.546) So the night of our engagement, we filmed the story at my house and we called the Facebook love story. put it on YouTube, send it to our friends and family. We go on our honeymoon. We come back from our honeymoon and the video is over 40,000 views. It was crazy. And we are seeing all these comments and people are just like engaging with the story. I can’t believe it happened for you guys. my God, this is so incredible. But there was one comment that said, Hey, is this real? Are y’all really married? And I told Natasha, I’m like, hey, like people are really hungry for relationship knowledge. And we need to be a fresh inspiration to these people. This was not a business idea. It was just simply a passion play. And from there, we started our blog, Married and Young, about three months into marriage. AJ Vaden (12:30.61) Wow. You know what, out of everything you said, other than for everyone who’s listening, there’s still hope for you on Facebook, right? So that’s why I’m keeping it away. But what hits me the most out of everything you said is something that I feel like entrepreneurs forget, and it’s that the power hangs in the story. And I think at some point we get so caught up into the information. Jamal Miller (12:38.41) Hahaha! Jamal Miller (12:51.4) Yes. Jamal Miller (12:58.526) Yep. AJ Vaden (12:58.966) or the strategy or the insights or tips, tactics, you know, all of that, that we forget that no, like what people hang on, what they become involved in is the story. Jamal Miller (13:14.761) Yes, know 100 % AJ and you’re spot on because we ended up taking that story and turning it into our first seven figure brand, The One University and and how we ended up on food stamps was trying to build this business, you know. time we, you know, when we first started Married and Young, it was just a blog, you know, and then a friend of mine saw that we had started the blog and we was doing really well, but I had no background in business, never sat in one marketing class, nothing at all for me. It was full-time industry, becoming a pastor. That was my tunnel vision. So a friend of mine comes and he says, Hey Jamal, I saw you started his blog. How’s it going? I said, man, it’s going great. We’re getting about 40,000 page views a month. He’s like 40,000 visitors a month. I’m like, yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Like we were just doing everything right. And he’s like, are you paying for advertising or ads? I’m like, what is that? No, we’re just posting our content on Facebook and people are, they’re going to the website. He’s like, Jamal, you can be rich. And I was like, how did you get rich from blogging? Straight, I just, once again, super green. So he says, Hey man, I’m gonna sit you down. I’ve gone from now being a minister to now I’m a personal brand online brand consultant. Never heard of anything like it before in my life. So he sits me down and he walks me through how to build an online business. And I will tell you in that moment, some, a light bulb went off that I was like, Oh my goodness, this may be a way to change the world outside of the local church. And it was like, I just immediately felt the Holy spirit just Rory & AJ Vaden (14:42.199) and Jamal Miller (14:47.572) that wind of peace to proceed. we, you know, so I said, well, man, where do I start? He’s like, you gotta, you gotta make a product. And I’m like, okay, make a product. What do I make? He’s like, write a book. So like, would not tell anybody right now. The first thing to do is write a book, right? But that’s what he literally said, write a book. And I was like, okay, I wrote my first book in 90 days, knocked it out, right? And knocked out the book. I thought we were about to be rich. I’m like, okay, we’ve got 40,000 people coming to our website a month. I’m like, okay, I can expect 39,000 of these people, okay, are in love with us. There’s probably a thousand of them that just don’t like us. There’s a thousand of them out of the 40. This is my math, right? Entrepreneur math. I’m like, there’s probably about a good thousand of them that are like, yeah, we don’t really want to deal with this guy. So I’m like, okay, let’s go back to the 39,000 that love us. Okay. 39,000 times 20. Okay. I told the times I said, listen, babe, we about to be rich, girl. We got to launch this book. All our problems about to go away. AJ Vaden (15:40.142) All AJ Vaden (15:49.998) You know what, I wish that was true math. I wish that was real math, Jamal. Jamal Miller (15:55.572) So we launched the book and I, the day before we launched it, I bought Natasha a brand new car to celebrate. Like this is so scary. I said, listen, I am no longer Jamal Miller. Okay. I am Dr. Jamal Miller. I need y’all to go ahead and change the name in the books because I got a book out. So we launched the book and the book literally made a thousand dollars. Wake up call. And my God, you talk about disappointment. AJ Vaden (16:02.921) no! AJ Vaden (16:21.089) yeah. Jamal Miller (16:24.42) But in the middle of disappointment, I saw a glimmer of light. I said, OK, this did not make the amount of money I thought it was going to make. But I looked at Natasha and I said, but Bay, look at what we just did. We literally just had a life experience that we put into a book. And we just made money. Yeah, it didn’t make the amount of money we want to make. I’m like, but if this is true and I can just figure out how to sell to more people. we will never be broke a day in our life. And that was it for me. And I just said, I just gotta get better. The reality is, is I just suck at this. You know, like I’m just not good. Like. AJ Vaden (17:03.95) But at least you knew that. That self-awareness is always the first step, right? And I think that’s so, I think that’s, you know what I love about this and what I think, I want everyone who’s listening to hear this, is that you had an aha moment of two things that I think a lot of people in this space who are trying to become an expert or who are an expert and they’re trying to become more well-known. They have two things that they have not admitted to themselves. Number one, I’m not good at this and I need help. Number two, I have to learn how to sell. Those are two things that are required to be successful at anything in life. So I want to pause here and I want to talk about, so what did you do? Like, how did you go from, okay, I see the light, I know I’m not good, I know I need to figure out how to sell this stuff. How did you go from that to where you are today? Jamal Miller (17:40.916) Boom. Boom. Jamal Miller (17:48.094) period. Jamal Miller (17:58.28) Yep. That’s up. Yep. Jamal Miller (18:06.494) Well, first off, I quit, you know, I think, okay, I’m like, okay, I need to get a real job. This is being honest, right? I, know, the Bible talks about hope deferred makes the heart sick, you know, and when you put your hope into something and you believe in something and it doesn’t go the way you thought you have to, which is also another scripture, guard your heart for out of it flows a wellspring of life. Like you’ve got to guard your heart. And that disappointment set into my heart and AJ Vaden (18:17.07) Mmm. Jamal Miller (18:34.1) And it made my heart sick. And I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I need to get a real job. So I ended up quitting the online business, stopping the blog. And I went and got a real job. got my first. At the time I went to my pastor and I said, hey, can you increase me in my salary? And he’s like, hey, at the time we just can’t do it. So I ended up applying at another church, got a full time salary at another church, move my family. Well, it just me and Natasha. Move me and Natasha from Chicago to another city. And I get there. And I realized, my goodness, this was, am, and you may think, how are you doing this Jamal in ministry? But the reality, here’s what I did. I chased money over purpose. And I think many of us do this all the time. And I’m not talking about security. All right. I think security is different than you got to, you got to secure yourself. So whatever it is, make the money you need to make. The reality was we were secure. AJ Vaden (19:16.046) Mmm. Jamal Miller (19:30.64) in Chicago, we just weren’t overflowing. We weren’t living in abundance. It wasn’t more than enough. And I’m like, I need more than enough. I need a salary that pays me what I’m worth and all those things in my church can’t. So let me go find a place that can. And so I sought satisfaction in money and not in purpose. And what I did was move to this new city, take this church on, and I was completely unhappy. Making good money, secure, but unhappy. AJ Vaden (19:39.862) I’m out of Jamal Miller (20:00.892) And it was the thing and here’s the thought and I think the question is, is what happens when we get the thing that we’ve always desired and it’s not what we actually want. And this is the stuff that I think you have to understand about how God has fashioned us is that our hearts are things that, and this is why I would say be careful following your heart. You need to lead your heart because a lot of times we follow our heart, but our heart is not fully Connected to the heart of God because there are some flesh still in that heart There are some things in that heart some desires some selfishness You know some things in there that you cannot get out an only person that can deal with that is the Holy Spirit is God and I’m so grateful that God used this moment to draw those things out of my heart and he did use it for my good because once I got there I said this is the worst place ever I don’t want this anymore and I thought I wanted it, but I don’t and I said, okay God, how do I get out of here? And I wish I could tell y’all the moment that we left that church that everything got better. No, it got worse. We left the church. We moved back to Chicago. I thought I had a job lined up. The job that was lined up when we got back to Chicago fell through. And this is when I looked at Natasha and I said, hey, babe, you are six months pregnant. I am driving Uber to make ends meet. We need help. And that’s whenever we had to go apply for food stamps. And I remember the first time us buying groceries with food stamps, Natasha’s like, babe, We don’t look like we’re on food stamps. said, we may not look like we’re on food stamps, but baby, we own food stamps. All right, well, let’s get this chicken. Let’s get this steak and let’s get up out of here and go eat, you know? And it was a, it was a very humbling season. and when in that, in that moment, what I would say was, yeah, it was like, I’ve stopped the whole playing around with purpose and Jamal it’s time to bet on you again. So that’s when we picked up the online business again. And I said, okay, what do we know how to do that we can do quick? And the thing that we came to mind was hosting an online conference. And so we hosted an online conference. And in that moment, when we did online conference, it made about thirteen thousand dollars. Right. And it was just enough to kind of like give us a little cushion, you know, into our next thing. But what ended up happening in that whole spin of time between the food stamps, picking the online business back up because before it was Plan B. Now it has to become Plan A. We pick it back up. We start trying to nurture it again. Jamal Miller (22:27.444) And here’s what ended up happening. Money became the control in our home. And the Bible talks about this. The Bible says that you can only serve two gods. You cannot serve both God and mammon. And mammon is the god of money. And I will tell you in our home, when we had money in the bank account, me and Natasha were happy. When there was no money in the bank account, we’re fighting, we’re arguing, we’re mad, we’re anxious, we’re, you know, money was the temperature. the thermostat, I’m sorry, of how we felt about ourselves and the season of our life. And one day we’re at church. This is when things broke. We’re at church and the pastor begins to speak about the spirit of mammon. as you know, how you’re in church and you’re just hearing a message and you’re like, God. And he begins to talk about the spirit of mammon. And I believe there are some of you in this room right now. And I’m very careful. I know a lot of pastors, a lot of churches AJ Vaden (23:13.502) yeah. Jamal Miller (23:22.088) They can use money to manipulate and things like that. But in that moment, I could not shake it. I’m like, yeah, this ain’t a manipulative moment. Like, this is me. He is speaking to me because Mammon is running our life right now. And I said, Lord, how do I get you back in the driver’s seat of our finances? And for us, the first thing that came to my mind was just to sow a crazy seed. Just Jamal, just sow a seed and just make this like get put it on the altar. and just give God your best. Right. And at the time, this is me just following Holy Spirit. I called Natasha and I’m like, babe, we need to sow a seed and I want to give something crazy, something radical. And at the time we had never given a thousand dollars. It was just just the number that came to my mind, my heart. I’m like, hey, I want to give a thousand. She’s like, babe, are you sure? And she said, I said, babe, I think we need to do it. I want to trust God and we get the money together. And this is what we prayed. I said, God, I’m not sowing this thousand dollars for a in the mail. I’m not sowing this thousand dollars for a promotion at work. I’m not sowing this for you to be a genie and magically make all our money problems go away. I’m sowing this thousand dollars so that you can give me and Natasha the clarity that we need for the future and purpose that you have for us in this time. Clear my heart up. from chasing money and help me align myself with chasing purpose again. So we sow that thousand dollar seed on that prayer. And it was probably maybe a month later that we were on a webinar. And on the webinar, are, because at the time we were all over the place in our business doing all whatever we could do to make money. We’re on this webinar and one of the people just says, and I go into a rant, you know, just talking and I’m like, yeah guys. I’m so tired of y’all, you know, trying to keep figuring out how to find the one. You need to learn how to become the one. And when we said this thing, become the one, the chat just goes crazy. And I look at it I’m like, well, they’re like, we need to learn more about that. How do we become the one? How do we become the one? And I said, Natasha, I’m like, babe, there’s something on this become the one thing. And that was our breakthrough. And we ended up getting an idea for a membership. AJ Vaden (25:42.348) Okay. Jamal Miller (25:46.942) called The One University from that webinar. And we put our last bit of money to launching a membership to help singles become the one. And what I’ll tell you is our life has not been the same since launching The One University. AJ Vaden (25:56.418) Bye. AJ Vaden (26:02.188) You know, I think there’s something really important about this whole journey that you’ve gone through in this chasing purpose over money. And if you focus on purpose, if you focus on your divine calling, then money will come as a byproduct, right? But if you focus on the money, then it’s just work, work, work, work, work. also it’s never going to fulfill you, right? There’s that element of never enough-ness. Jamal Miller (26:20.852) You’re right. AJ Vaden (26:31.158) And so what I would love to hear from, and I think you said once, like don’t chase money, right? Chase purpose. How do you do that? Tactically speaking, like for the person who’s listening, who’s like, that’s great Jamal, I’m so glad you had all these breakthroughs and it’s all worked out. And cause I think what I hear so often is I think there’s a, an era of comparison. and I hear so many people in the brain builders group communities, like, well, it seems like memberships are the thing to do. Jamal Miller (26:41.192) Yeah. Jamal Miller (26:45.844) I know. AJ Vaden (27:00.236) Or it seems like one-on-one coaching is the thing to do. Or what I hear a lot of people say is, well, I don’t want to be trading time for money. I always ask, why not? And they’re like, well, I want to make money while asleep. And I’m like, who does that? Introduce me to these people. All they do is sleep and make money. I would like to meet them. So I would be curious to hear your thoughts, because you’ve been on both sides, right? Jamal Miller (27:22.888) Please, please. Jamal Miller (27:27.922) Yes. AJ Vaden (27:29.102) How do you reconcile those things to go, no, no, no, I’m just, I’m gonna do this thing that I feel called to do and also figure out a path of how do you turn this passion into something that can fulfill your needs and help you thrive? Jamal Miller (27:49.3) Absolutely. Such a great question. think it comes back down to understanding what purpose is. And I think when I say chase purpose, right, you may think I’m saying chase purpose, but I’m actually not. And let me explain in the Bible, the Bible says in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That’s what he did. But you must ask yourself, why did he do it? Well, if you keep reading, it goes on to say the earth was without void, which means that the earth was completely black, completely dark. AJ Vaden (27:53.934) Mm. Jamal Miller (28:18.696) God saw a problem, right? And when he said the earth was out void, he’s like, that’s a problem. I don’t like this place that’s black, that’s dark. This place needs life. This place needs me to come in and create something. And that’s when he took seven days to create the world that we are now living in today. God saw a problem. And out of that problem, he found his purpose, which was to create the heavens and the earth in the world that we have today. And I think if you are going to chase purpose, the idea here is to not just chase purpose in itself, it’s to actually find a problem. And when you find a problem, my friend, you have found your purpose. Now, there are things I have a framework called the circle of purpose, you that I created to help people understand how do I turn my purpose into a legitimate, viable, profitable business? Well, inside of purpose, number one is a problem, right? But then once you identify the problem, you must ask yourself a few questions. Number two, all right? are there people who actually are struggling with this problem, right? Are there people who need this problem? Are there people who also have a connection to this being a problem that they’re facing? And who are those people? What are they? What’s their age? What’s their demographic? What’s their background? What’s their experience? And we’ve all said it, personal branding 101, the best person to serve is who you were three to four years ago. Like that’s easy, right? But then the next question you must ask yourself is, do I have proficiency? Do I have the skills, the abilities? And I would even go as far as to that, because I didn’t have none of that, y’all. I didn’t have the skills. I didn’t have the abilities. My proficiency was a story. So when you look at the problem that we saw was, how you make, Jamal, what’s your circular purpose for this first brand? Well, the problem that we saw, number one, was singles struggling to get married. That was it. We recognized that there were singles that were struggling to get married. And that was the problem. Who were the people? Well, they were 30 to 40-year-old singles. Jamal Miller (30:17.278) that were either on their second marriage or they went through a traumatic relationship, a traumatic dating relationship that scarred them about marriage and they were having a hard time having successful relationships. All right, proficiency. Well, the next thing that we also saw was that they were having a hard time meeting people at their churches. Well, guess what? Our story was we didn’t meet at our church, we met online. So how do we help people now meet people in a digital way, right? That becomes… That was our proficiency, our story of here’s how we did it. And now we took all of that and we packaged it up into a product that we could help people to get this problem solved in their life. And my friend, that framework, what I just gave you is a circle of purpose because what we just did was we took something that started off as a problem that we saw and we turned it into a viable, passion-driven, purpose-centered business. AJ Vaden (31:11.129) And I have rather successful one at that. And I think that’s a testament to it’s like when you, and I love what you said and that, know, ironically that’s so interconnected to what we call the brain positioning statement at Brain Builders Group. It’s like, what problem do you solve? What’s the call list of that problem? What’s your unique way of solving that problem? And ultimately, who do you solve it for and how do you make money solving it? Right? But it’s all problem centered, but Jamal Miller (31:13.204) Yep. Jamal Miller (31:25.492) Mm hmm. Yep. AJ Vaden (31:37.42) The goodness in all of that is like, if what you do really works, people talk about it. It spreads, right? It grows because it works. And that’s where the money comes. It’s like you solve a problem and you do it so well that it changes someone’s life. And when you do that, they go tell everyone they know. Jamal Miller (31:43.39) That’s it. It’s bright. Yes. Yes, it works. Yes. Jamal Miller (31:54.612) I’m on. Absolutely. Jamal Miller (32:00.648) Yep. And I think the piece that we have to be careful with is thinking that whatever we’re doing right now is what we’ll do forever. I think a lot of people think, if I start doing this, then I got to do this forever. What if I change my mind? What if I don’t lose passion here? Guys, and I am the testimony. We did that business, the one university for five years. It went from, you know, a brand new, the one university membership, right? And we learned how to do grow our membership. We grew up to four thousand via. AJ Vaden (32:07.63) Mmm, that’s good. Jamal Miller (32:29.896) product launches, which we’re talking about that. All right. So we got it to about 1.2 million. All right. And we are five years in with this business and there’s a whole lot of stuff that happens. Success ruined me and my wife. You know, we had to really remarry each other. Once we hit seven figures, you know, I lost my identity. She lost hers. Remember beginning of the story. I thought I was going to be a pastor. So now five years later, we’re seven figure business owners. And I’m like, what the heck is life? You know, what’s going on? And we had our marriage took a major hit. AJ Vaden (32:30.477) Amazing. Jamal Miller (32:58.6) But within that time frame, once we remarried each other, and it’s a real story, we really had to rededicate, like we are committed to the future of one another. And once we did that, we had to ask ourselves, do we want to serve singles forever? Is this, you know, we’re growing in marriage. We’re now five years, you know, at that point, we’re primarily married seven, eight years. I’m saying, babe, I don’t want to this forever. And she’s like, I don’t want to do this forever either. And I’m like, OK, well, we got to figure out what’s next. And I wish I could tell you that it was easy. to figure out what was next. It was really hard, but we did it and we are in our next. And it took many years of us just kind of testing, experimenting with different things in order to figure out the next thing. And the beautiful part is at the end of the day, everything we’ve tested and experimented with, there was still a common thread of helping to transform people from the inside out. It was just us deciding on how we wanted to do it. And I wanna give you permission, whoever’s watching and listening. to go experiment, test things out, try things out. Don’t feel like you’ve got to nail it the first time. We did nail it the first time, but my friend, we did not nail it the second, third, fourth time, okay? Like, I’m grateful we nailed it first, because that did give us some good cushion to experiment and fail. But if whatever you’re doing and you don’t like it, that’s okay. Try something else, do something else. But just remember your why. Make sure you, before you go experiment, that you know what your why is. For us, no matter what I do, I want to transform people. I got to be in the middle of somehow, some way helping people to become a better version of themselves. I don’t care if it’s going to through helping somebody to learn how to be a speaker or launching a course or launching whatever we’re helping people do. I got to make sure that somehow I’m helping them become a better version of themselves that they can look like Jesus at the end of this. That was my common thread. So my encouragement would be find your why and just make sure that you center around that why with whatever you’re testing and experimenting with. And so yeah, AJ, for us, we did the singles business for about five years. We grew the heck out of it, know, 4,000 members, 200,000 plus email lists, multiple launches a year. But then we lost passion for it. did. And so right now we’re in the process of actually partnering with someone else to hand that off to them. So we’re in that process now. But we, you know, took some soul searching, some journeying, and we try like two different businesses within like a three year run. Jamal Miller (35:19.744) And where we’ve landed today is on, we’ve built a new program called Call Coach Institute. And it is helping to certify life coaches who are infused what we call a spirit led coaching model where we’re helping life coaches, disciple people in their coaching sessions as life coaches. And we just completed a $3 million launch. It’s been incredible, fun ride. But once again, like I said, it wasn’t easy to get here. AJ Vaden (35:47.608) You know, I’d love to go back to two things that you said, because I think there’s so many interesting components of this. And although on the surface they could seem all seemingly disconnected, you you pointed out it’s like, but they’re not, because it’s all centered around personal transformation from the inside out. It was from singledness to coupledness. It was from where you were to who you were created to be. But there’s this transformation component. And if you look below the surface, Jamal Miller (36:15.4) Yes. AJ Vaden (36:17.55) So I want to come back to that but the first thing you said that I think we kind of skimmed over and I want to want to double back on this is success really really hurt you and so what did that look like and I think it would be good to also talk about like for everyone who’s listening who is successful who has been successful but yet They’re not happy and they’re not loving life and life isn’t going so well right now Jamal Miller (36:43.444) Yeah. AJ Vaden (36:46.562) Like what are some of the things that you noticed where money had kind of taken over or success had taken over and how did y’all catch that? What did you do to rectify that? Because I think there’s a lot of people that I know personally in my business life and my personal life that materialistically speaking, they got it all. They’ve sold businesses, they have the house, the cars, the trips, the travel, the things, and they are not happy. Jamal Miller (37:07.572) Got it all. Jamal Miller (37:17.192) Yeah. Yep, we experience both sides, right? I think it’s hard to be broke and it’s hard to be rich. You choose your heart. If you choose the heart of being rich, just know that here’s the reality. Money only solves money problems. And I think that’s what you are getting at, right? Money only solves money problems. And so once you do have money and that problem is solved, AJ Vaden (37:17.389) at all. AJ Vaden (37:23.148) Hmm. Hmph. That’s right. Jamal Miller (37:40.46) Now you have to realize that there are a lot of other problems in your life, right? Your problem with yourself, problem with friends, problem with relationships, things that money can’t buy. And that’s what we ran into. And it was a wake-up call. When I say success ruined us, it’s because it revealed that that’s all that we were going after. It revealed that that was all that. And it also revealed that we had a definition of success that wasn’t sustainable. Right? And I think that’s the other part. If you’re going to. be successful, you’ve got to understand that you don’t own success. Success is rented, and I think many of you heard this quote, success is rented and rent is due every single day. So what does that mean for me? What that means is that every point of success, I’ve got to reevaluate. What does success for me mean now? Right? And I think that was the thing that we just were failing to do. Some of the fundamental things we were failing to do at every new level of success, which was come back and reevaluate. All right, what do we want out of our life? now and for me and Natasha, we got to a place where our marriage just became a second thought. It became, we were actually using our marriage for success versus actually like. being married, like, because we were in the marriage business. So we were literally using our story, using each other, using it. So we were drawing from the marriage versus feeding the marriage. And we kept drawing from it, drawing from it, drawing from it. And you’ve got to realize your marriage is like a third person. You you’ve got your wife, you’ve got yourself, and you’ve got your marriage. And you’ve got to treat that. AJ Vaden (38:57.218) man. AJ Vaden (39:06.828) Mmm. Jamal Miller (39:17.672) thing with dignity and respect. And for us, we stopped doing that. We were not treating our marriage like a person. We were treating it like it was just, will always be there. It will always be whatever it is. And that’s when you end up looking at each other and realizing, I don’t know you. I don’t even know if I like you right now. And I don’t know if we are what we thought we were going to be at this point in our juncture. And most people at that point just decide to change and remarry and get a divorce. But what I told Natasha, I said, I said, no, we, I, AJ Vaden (39:18.466) good. Jamal Miller (39:46.622) That’s not for us. Like we need to buckle down and we need to recommit because when I said in my vows to you, I said yes to your past, your present and your future. And that’s when we had to remarry one another. So yeah, was a, was, I think I kind of gave a good bit there, but when I say success ruined us, what I mean by it is that it revealed who we really were and we had to make a decision. I don’t like this person that I’m being and it’s time to make a change. AJ Vaden (40:13.198) You No, I think that’s really good. And I love that concept of you have to reevaluate and redefine success at every new level of success. And I don’t think people do that. I think they do it here, they do it there, but it’s like, once you’ve reached this, got to reevaluate, reset it, redefine it. I think that’s really good advice for all of us to make sure that keeping the main thing the main thing, and the main thing ain’t the money, right? It’s not the success. Jamal Miller (40:23.474) at every level. Yes. Now. I did just keep calling it. Jamal Miller (40:42.992) No. No. Rory & AJ Vaden (40:45.206) I love that. Now you have transitioned. You guys have been so good at so many things that you guys have done. Before we wrap up and go offline, I have like a real quick list of questions that I would really love for our audience to hear from you. So here’s the first thing that I would love for everyone to hear from you is what’s your number one piece of advice or at least top one or two that you would give to the entrepreneur who feels stuck at their current level? Jamal Miller (41:00.798) to a fire. Rory & AJ Vaden (41:14.272) and who also wants to go faster, right? Because everyone wants to go faster, but they don’t know what to do. Jamal Miller (41:21.268) So I think most entrepreneurs that feel stuck, the first thing they think is, what am I doing wrong? Or what should I be doing next? And I will tell you that’s the wrong way to think. It’s who should I be talking to? All right, don’t go to what, go to who. Rory & AJ Vaden (41:32.142) you Jamal Miller (41:34.578) because if you’re asking yourself what you should be doing, you’re asking yourself what, what, you don’t know. So stop wasting time trying to figure out what to do and go do whatever you got to do to find the right who to talk to. Because I can tell you my journey of success at every level. I can point back to a person that catapulted me to my next level. I can point back to a coach. I can point back to a mentor. I can point back to a specialist that was able to look right at my season, right at my problem and tell me exactly me to do to get to the next level. And I’m telling you that to me has been my cheat code, my cheat code. And I also would say, be careful expecting one person to solve all your problems. is not, nobody is Jesus. Nobody can solve all your problems. So whenever you do link up to a coach, just know you need to already know what problem you need them to solve so that you can move on whenever they solve that problem and not hang on to them or think they’re going to be there forever for you or be the person forever, or they’re going to help all the parts of your business. What I found is that each coach come in my life came Rory & AJ Vaden (42:05.398) Mmm, that’s so good. Jamal Miller (42:34.442) in my life had a very unique specialty. And it was primarily the thing that was best for them, right? Whatever I saw that they were doing really well was the thing that I said, I want that. Why do you go to a coach that isn’t doing something well and expecting to help you with that, right? Don’t waste your time, waste your money. So I will tell you, if you want to get to the next level, it’s not about what to do. It’s about who should I be talking to? Rory & AJ Vaden (42:50.239) That’s good. Rory & AJ Vaden (42:57.064) That’s so good. I mean that is the power of, hey you don’t have to make the same mistakes. Go learn from the people who’ve made them who can help you expedite the process. Now you said something in there that I want you to double down on because you said, hey your job is to know the problem you have so you can go get the help you need. What if you don’t know the problem? Jamal Miller (43:20.104) That’s a good question. know, that’s a good one. You kind of got me stumped there because I would say, don’t know at any point in my business that I didn’t at least know, or if you don’t know the problem, I would probably say, well, what do you want? Right? At least coming in and that’s another big one that a lot of entrepreneurs, don’t know what they want. it, is it, even if whatever you want is maybe the wrong thing, you know, at least coming to a coach or coming to someone and saying, Hey, here’s what I want. Right? You know, like for me in this season of my business, you know, I want, um, Rory & AJ Vaden (43:53.325) and Jamal Miller (43:58.312) It’s not autonomy. I kind of want to have something that is just not requiring 15, 20 people to run it, right? Like I have a business right now that has 15 employees that require that is required to run it. And I love it because I love having a team, but I also want to have something that just I can do with maybe one person and it just, I can be, I can still be that, I don’t know, on the ground entrepreneur that’s just like in the weeds and still I can get messy with it. And not all my team are looking at me like, why is Jamal doing that? Why is he doing this? Why are you doing that? Rory & AJ Vaden (44:04.622) Mm-hmm. Rory & AJ Vaden (44:27.022) You Jamal Miller (44:28.166) And that’s just, and that’s what I want. So I have an entrepreneur coach that’s in the same season where he’s pivoted from a $20 million business to a $2 million business with two team members. And I’m working with him to help me figure out how to do both. Well, how do I have a 20, know, 15, $20 million thing that I can be the founder CEO. And there’s a whole suite of leaders that runs it. And it keeps me sharp because once you become a high level leader like that, like you’re Your operations is just different. And I’ll be honest, I don’t want to do that 100 % of the time. really, doesn’t give me that much life, but I do have this other idea that I would love to build into a one to $2 million thing. And I need to know how to manage and do both well. And so I want to find someone that is doing that. And so that, or has done it. And so that’s kind of where I’m at. That’s my desire. So at least if you don’t know what the problem is, at least be clear about what you want. Rory & AJ Vaden (45:18.574) That’s good. I love that. And it’s like, if you don’t know what the problem is, you at least have to know what you want. And sometimes that takes some serious time and reflection because people can’t help you if you can’t tell them what you need help with. Right? That’s the gist of it. Now, I love that you said something else too about growth and scale. I would love to also know it’s like, in your opinion, like how do you stay aligned with purpose while scaling? Jamal Miller (45:27.683) self-discovery. Jamal Miller (45:47.282) You know, we are going through that right now. And I just got done, I’m not sure if you’ve ever read the book by Cameron Harrell, Vivid Vision. It’s a great book and we just, you know, put this into practice. Just every single brand that we build, we I take the time to go do a 15, 20 page vivid vision around it. And what that does is just forces me to think three to five years down the road of like, what is the thing? How is this brand tying back to the overall vision that the Lord has given us? And for me, the conviction that I have is that I know that we’ve been called to pastor the Internet. And I think that’s just comes right back down to your why. And so as you grow in scale, I have to have clarity on what is the through line. As long as we’re pointing back, what is our North Star? It can’t be money because you’re going to always. But what is something that you will never, ever run out of being able to accomplish and do? And for us, when the Bible gave us the Great Commission to make disciples of all nations, that I take very serious. And that’s my why. How do we make disciples of all nations? Because that is the thing that will forever be the problem that we are facing. More and more people looking like him. You may have a different one. Like within that big idea or that why, there are so many things that can break out of it that I can solve. And so that keeps me aligned. And so, but at the same time, I’m also still, I’m obsessed with my own limitations. And I think you have to know yourself, right? I am obsessed with what are my limits and I’m obsessed with my own potential, you know? And so I think those are the things that kind of drive me as well. Like, can I do this? Can I go this far? Can I, you know, at what point will I not like it? You know, and those are the things, right? And so as long as it’s not impacting my marriage or my relationship with God, I go after it. Rory & AJ Vaden (47:46.158) Yeah, but I think that’s back to it’s like 15 to 20 pages. Ain’t no, you know, paragraph, y’all. Like if you think you’ve written yourself a couple of lines of what my vision is, that’s a whole different, that’s a whole nother level of do you really know? Right? Have you really dug deep? Is there real clarity versus, you know, there’s so many vision statement exercises. Oh, got my sentence. We’re good. Got it. But that’s, I love that of like, I mean, I’m just sitting here going like, where do I have 15 or even 10 or even five pages? Jamal Miller (47:57.576) Yeah. Do you really? Rory & AJ Vaden (48:16.046) of a detailed vision capturing what my purpose is and what the centered why is to keep me aligned. Because I think when you get that deep, it’s like that’s something to go back to again and again. I love that. Okay, last question because I promise I won’t keep you much longer. I told you I had like 36 questions over here. So here’s my last question. Jamal Miller (48:23.646) Amen. Jamal Miller (48:33.714) No, this is good. I’m having fun. mean, just going back to the vision piece, without vision, people perish. Right? Rory & AJ Vaden (48:43.374) Well, yeah, and I love that. And I think it is one of those things that people don’t spend near enough time. Or if they do, they did it one time, right? One time. it’s like, no, I mean, you got to do that all the time, all the time. Somebody asked me because I’m my fourth year in the row. And I will admit it took me 36 years as a believing Christian. Jamal Miller (48:53.426) One time. Rory & AJ Vaden (49:12.504) to read the Bible in its entirety. What an embarrassing statement. But I’m on the fourth year in a row where I’m reading the Bible word for word, page to page, cover to cover, and somebody asked me, like, why do you keep reading the same thing again and again, like every year? And it’s like, because I have to read it every day to stay connected to it, right? Every day, it’s like. Jamal Miller (49:14.654) Wow, I love that. It’s okay, you did it. Come on. Jamal Miller (49:35.092) Every time. Come on. Every time you see something. Rory & AJ Vaden (49:40.27) you why do I say I love you to my husband every day? Right? And it’s like, why do I eat every day? Right? It’s like, I got to stay connected to my source. Right? And it’s like, same thing with your vision statement, like, or your goals or whatever. It’s like, when’s the last time you pulled that thing up and read it? Actually stayed connected to it. Like it’s a thing. It’s a living, breathing document. Okay. Next question. Actually, I’m going ask you three questions rapid fire, and you can answer them as quickly as you want. So, Jamal Miller (49:53.844) every day. Jamal Miller (50:04.532) Let’s go. Rory & AJ Vaden (50:08.27) investment you’ve ever made in your personal growth? What would you say it is? Jamal Miller (50:15.146) it was, was a mastermind. yeah, a $30,000 mastermind where the coach said, Hey, I’m gonna hold your hand to a million dollars. And I was on that call every single week until we got to a million dollars. And we did, and we haven’t made less than a million dollars since that mastermind. Now, not all masterminds are credit equal. So be careful. Don’t just go and run to any mastermind. Like here’s my, here’s my money. Jamal Miller said he made a million dollars after his. but I would say that was the best investment I ever made. when I fully betted on myself on an amount of money that absolutely seemed ludicrous at the time. Rory & AJ Vaden (50:44.302) I love that. One book that every purpose-driven entrepreneur should read. Jamal Miller (50:51.412) Man oh man oh man oh every purpose driven entrepreneur should read. Can I give two? I’ll give one that’s a spiritual and one that’s a business book. The spiritual book is Drawing Near to God by John Bevere. Best book on truly understanding intimacy and that God just wants you. You can bring him the money, bring him souls, bring him businesses, bring him all the Rory & AJ Vaden (51:02.243) Do it. Jamal Miller (51:20.638) things that you are going to do on this earth because you are a world changer. But I’m telling you, the thing that makes him most proud is you with nothing else. So drawing near taught me that. In terms of business, I’m looking through my deck right here. I would say the book that probably had the biggest impact on my business that every entrepreneur should read, my Rory & AJ Vaden (51:28.533) Mmm, I love that. Jamal Miller (51:45.81) Gosh, it is so hard to choose, but I am going to go with, my goodness, I know what it is. The Road Less Traveled. Do you know I’m talking about? I actually read it like once a month, but the name is, it’s like The Road Less Traveled, The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham. Keith Cunningham, yeah, he is the business coach for Tony Robbins and The Road Less Stupid. That book teaches you how to think. Rory & AJ Vaden (51:56.802) No. Rory & AJ Vaden (52:06.294) Yes. Jamal Miller (52:13.81) And if there’s anything that you need to learn how to do as an entrepreneur is to learn how to think. And so literally I have a thinking chair. I wish I could pull my camera over here. I bought my thinking chair because of that book. That’s what he said. He said, Hey, you need to get a chair that becomes your thinking chair. And every Sunday I do something that this is my framework, right? I believe prayer is getting the heart of God, but my think time is to get the mind of God. So when I get in my think chair, I say, God, we act like we’re in a boardroom. Rory & AJ Vaden (52:19.662) Yeah. Rory & AJ Vaden (52:38.46) and Jamal Miller (52:42.332) You are the CEO of my business. What are you thinking right now? How are you thinking about this? How are you thinking about that? And it’s not prayer. It’s me engaging God as the intelligent God that he is, that knows my future, knows the future of this world, help me align. Now I don’t get it right every single time because I’m human, but I do my very best to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, to get that think time, to get the mind of God into my mind so I can run my company accordingly. And so you need to have prayer time where it’s worship. confessing, venting, crying, whatever you got to do to get the heart of God. But then you got your think time where you engage God in his mind. The role as stupid is what helped me to get that revelation. Rory & AJ Vaden (53:20.664) Mm. Rory & AJ Vaden (53:25.972) I love that. I spent four days at the four-day MBA with Keith Cunningham, and what I love about him is that he don’t sugarcoat it. Right? It’s a straightforward, clear path. And I love John Bevere and all the things. Those are great books. All right, last question. What does influential mean to you? Jamal Miller (53:33.576) No. Jamal Miller (53:49.126) Influential to me, I’m getting a picture before I got a word. Influential to me means ripple effect, ripple, right? Like it’s a ripple. And when I say a ripple, when you throw a rock in a water, it creates ripples. And I believe influence creates ripples. To where when you do one thing, and if you’re influential, it should create ripples. There should be impact that goes beyond you, from your books. to your content that you create, to your social media, to the people you help, to the employees you hire, everything you do as an influencer, there should be ripples. It goes beyond you. Rory & AJ Vaden (54:28.998) Mmm, that’s a good word Jamal. That is so good. Y’all, this is the tip of the iceberg of what I would like to cover with Jamal, but that would be like a full half-day interview. And we ain’t got time for that today, unfortunately. We’re gonna have to come back and do part two and part three at some point. But y’all, I would just so encourage you to, after this episode, go follow Jamal and… Jamal Miller (54:36.25) No. Yeah Rory & AJ Vaden (54:54.61) his beautiful wife, but I mean, there’s a couple of things that I’m gonna just, I’m gonna spread one. Go to jamalmiller.com, right? You can connect with him on all the socials from there, but that would be one place just to connect and also with Natasha. Where should people go to connect with Natasha? Jamal Miller (55:11.432) Yeah, so her Instagram is the best place. You can also, if you’re a woman who wants to kind of learn more about the brand that we’re building right now, you can go to calledwomen.com and we have a plethora of resources there. If you are a woman that, you know, wants to follow her, follow what she’s up to, go to her Instagram at Natasha Miller. yeah, those are, you know, and then as well, we have a YouTube channel called at called women where she has a bunch of podcasts and content that you can check out. Rory & AJ Vaden (55:37.166) We’ll have have Natasha on next. She’s in baby mode right now when she gets out, when she’s back in the land of the living. But then also, y’all, really awesome free resource. Jamal and Natasha have been so generous to give. So if y’all want to grab the seven-figure launch template, this is free. I want you to write this down. Go to profitnpurpose.com forward slash LLV. Jamal Miller (55:39.004) Yeah, that’ll be fun. Rory & AJ Vaden (56:04.782) Profitinpurpose.com forward slash LLV and just use the code brand, B-R-A-N-D at checkout. You get those for free. I will put those in the show notes. This has been a fantastic interview with so many insights and before we bounce, I just wanted to share with you, Jamal, these are the three things that I wrote down that I’m gonna go back and share with our company. gonna, I literally am gonna write these down and put them on sticky notes. and put them in my office so if they meant something to me then maybe these will resonate with you guys who are listening. Number one, money only solves money problems. That’s so good, right? If you don’t have these like and highlighted excerpts you need to write these down Jamal. But that was the first one that really stuck out to me. The second one is that when you find a problem you can solve. You have found your purpose. Right? Jamal Miller (56:58.58) Come on, that’s simple. Rory & AJ Vaden (57:00.3) It’s so, so good. So, so good. And then the third one that I’m going to write down and actually start putting into practice is the re-evaluating success at every new level of success. And it’s like that didn’t happen one time. That happens all the time. And those are three things that I’m going to walk away of going, hey, like I’m going to put these into practice after this interview. This is going to make a difference in my life, my family, and my business. And so Jamal, thank you for your time today. Absolutely phenomenal. Love this. I cannot wait to share it with our audience. Jamal Miller (57:29.652) I love it. Come on with thank you AJ. Thank you to you Roy for continuing to plow to helping entrepreneurs build their personal brands. I do believe that personal brand is the best investment you can make in today’s society. I believe you build your personal brand. We didn’t get into this, but I would say the biggest mistake that we made in building our business brands was not building our personal brands alongside them. And so please, as you guys are investing or in considering investing, Rory & AJ Vaden (57:54.392) Mmm. Jamal Miller (57:58.44) do the work you gotta do or whatever you gotta do to build your personal brand, your name. And there’s no one better in the industry that’s helping people do that than Rory and AJ. So jump in there, get the help you need so you can build your name into a cash money machine because that’s what happens when you build a good name. And so they’re the best at it. So thank you guys for doing the work that you’re doing. I love you guys. I’m so grateful for just the relationship that we have. Rory & AJ Vaden (58:14.03) You Rory & AJ Vaden (58:21.494) love that and thank you and listen to Jamal. Do what he says, do what he says, right? Build that personal brand, y’all. I love you guys. Thank you for sticking around all the way to the end of this awesome episode. Be sure to follow Jamal and we will catch you next time on the influential personal brand. See you later.