RV (00:02): Well, every once in a while I will meet a client who is someone who has been a vendor to several of our clients. And anytime that happens, I pay attention because this is such a small world that we live in. And because all of our brand builders, right, all of you mission driven messengers, are always looking for good vendors and asking us, who can I trust? Who can I do stuff with? So I really, really pay attention? Well, one of those people is Jen Kem, who I’m gonna tell you about. And she became a client of ours after I had been hearing her name. And so here, let me tell you a little bit about Jen. Okay. So she works specifically with thought leaders and personal brands and she helps them to make more impact and make more money. She has been named by Forbes as a top brand strategist. RV (00:49): Her company, master Brand Media represents influencers, celebrities, CEOs, experts, authors and really helps them with brand collaborations, live events. Kind of monetizing specifically through live events is what we’re gonna talk about today. And she, some of our brand builders, group clients that she has worked with is Selena Sue, Chris Winfield, Jen Gottlieb, Nicole Walters, all really high level clients that I know personally. She’s also worked with people like Lisa Nichols on an event called Speak and Right to Make Millions. They, they did that event together years ago. And anyways, when Jen became a private client of, of mine for BBG, and she was telling me what she did, I was like, I want to have you on the podcast. I need to learn about all that you do. And I know there’s gonna be people in our community who are doing this. So we’re gonna talk about how to make millions of dollars through live events and through creating and curating event experiences. Now, she has a book coming out also soon, so later next year called Unicorn Team Build and Scale, an Unforgettable Brand from the Inside Out. So we’ll probably touch a little bit on that, but I really want to learn from her about how she does what she does. So, Jen, welcome to the show, JK (02:07): Rory. I’m so pumped to be here, RV (02:09): Buddy. I am too. So, so how did you get into producing these live events and like how did you get into this live event world and business? JK (02:20): Well, you know, it’s a long yarn, but bottom line is I came from corporate. I used to be the head of go to market launching of big products and services. And so when I jumped the pond, if you will, over into entrepreneurship and started my own consultancy and agency around helping companies, products and personal brands do the same, it literally was one of my first mentors who then became a client. I’m sure this happens to you too, Rory, as we’ve talked about. Now, you are my mentor on the book side. And, and, and I had a mentor, her name was Lisa Nichols. And I wanna give full credit to Lisa because I hired her to be a mentor, to just make sure that from a leadership perspective, from a, the way that I looked at the world perspective, that I had a very, a bigger awareness of what was possible for me. JK (03:10): And in that relationship, I can’t help but like share with her, gosh, you know, I see these amazing things that you’re doing and I’m curious if you thought about doing X, Y, and Z. And she was like, I’m always open. And I think when you work with mission driven messengers, like Lisa, yeah, they are open to hearing how can I expand my message to the world? And so, bottom line, we created this amazing relationship. And it was her who encouraged me and said, because I said to her, I think you should be doing, she was already doing amazing events. She’s a very highly requested and hired speaker, and she had already a New York Times bestselling book under her belt called No Matter What. And I said, I think that from a next level perspective where we need clarity for your audience is like, what are really your offers that you’re making? Because people loved her, they would show up anywhere she would go. So she had all the charisma and the the of a visionary. And from a high ticket perspective, people were used to purchasing from her books, smaller bundles, things like that. And she was only available for higher level mentorship in a one-on-one capacity, which she was my, she was one of my mentors that I was paying a high. RV (04:23): Oh, so you hired her to be your like one-on-one private coach. JK (04:26): Yeah. And then what she did was she, like, she changed my entire life and, and I always teased her, ruined it at the same time. Just kidding. Lisa because she’s like, you really need to be helping entrepreneurs. ’cause I know that you are crushing it with corporations. ’cause I had taken my corporate experience and a lot of my clients were corporate people and executive types who wanted that type of strategy and, and working with their go to market teams. And she said, I feel like the way you’re teaching me as my student is what entrepreneurs need more of. But they don’t know anybody like this. You know, we’ve been told you can do events and experiences but a lot of times the conversation is more about logistics and event planning. And I would totally come into a place of, RV (05:08): It’s always like strategy. It’s always like, how do we get the coffee and what’s the AV and like all this stuff, all that stuff. But like you, so you have a framework, it’s called Million Dollar Experiences, is that what it’s called? Yes. JK (05:18): It’s called the Million Dollar Experience Model. Yes. RV (05:20): Million Dollar Experience Model. And so this is all about basically how to create an awesome experience that also translate into more revenue at the event, right? JK (05:29): Yes. And, and, and post-event, because even the model itself accounts for, you know, what’s all the pre things you have to do, obviously what happens at the actual event to create the transformation that makes the people who come. And the key is that the people who come in that pre-work are people who are ready for a transformation that understand they want more after an event and are are already primed because we’ve done a good job before the event to invite the right people into the room so that the offer itself is a perfect fit for the problem that they wanna solve. And then the post event is cared for as well. Because a lot of times what happens is, and also with the events, people don’t wanna do them because it’s exhausting, right? Physically strenuous a lot of the things RV (06:19): Totally. It’s, it’s, oh my, it’s stressful. Anytime you have to print name tags, that’s what I tell people. Like, if it’s small enough that you don’t eat name tags, it’s all right. Once you get into name tags and taking lunch orders and like the, the gets crazy if you bingo, it’s JK (06:33): Crazy. Bingo. And so the thing is that I always tell people like, you’re always gonna have the fatigue because you’re showing up for big work. But it, the fatigue doesn’t have to be toxic or unnecessary. And I think that a lot of times, because I always, one of my ways that I live my life is, I call it I work on the right hard things. And so if one of the hard things, and Rory is correct, friends printing name tags and lunch orders, it’s like, what we shouldn’t focus on. But it takes up so much energy, you just don’t even understand it. And my philosophy is, you know, treat a live event or a live activation, by the way this works online or offline. ’cause When you mentioned Selena Sue, she’s made the most income and impact from actually us architecting the right experience for an online three day event. She did. And she did it three times and made millions of dollars from it. And it just shows that when you have the right model, and Rory and I can geek out about models all day. ’cause He has like the most amazing models around RV (07:35): Oh, frameworks. Like frameworks and Yeah. JK (07:37): Models and systems. And me too from a place of using a live event vehicle, if you will. It’s a vehicle really to then I think amplify really all of the things you got going on, whether it’s a book and then turning that book into a high ticket offer that then, you know, gives you nice cash injection and, and income, but also anything really. So it’s also back to that post-event caretaking that allows people to, if they don’t choose yes at that time, they are ready for the next or the next time. And, and, and hmm. You know, I know brand builders and Rory and AJ are very much about the relationship building. And that’s what I also love about live events. They’re the best way to get closer to people and create relationships and not just sell more, but frankly, partner collaborate, creation, ship opportunities. Mm-Hmm. RV (08:36): There’s just, and there, it, it takes so much energy to your point. It’s like, ’cause you’re giving so much energy and it’s like mm-Hmm, it’s transformative because you have the human experience of like, we’re pouring into each other and like we’re bringing the, bringing the energy. So I, I think that in and of itself is a really big insight for people to understand that. I think a lot of people miss is just going, there’s a pre-event strategy that primed people and preps them. And then there’s also a post-event strategy, which is like, you keep in touch and you build a relationship. ’cause We play the long, we’re playing the long game constantly. And I, I’m just shocked at how many people are like, well, nobody bought in my funnel. Nobody bought my webinar. This sucks. It doesn’t work. And it’s like, no dude, it’s like a great funnel converts at like 3% for anybody, like 5% maybe. So your whole life is, that, is is nurturing the 95%. That’s where the, the magic is. It’s not like the 5% who buy, it’s going, how do you build a relationship and add value and stay in touch with the others? So just the idea of even pre ’cause sometimes they’ll be like, this event sucked. We didn’t sell anything. What a what a failure. And it’s like, oh my gosh, did you totally have the wrong motives and the wrong sales strategy going in, in the first place? JK (09:55): Right, RV (09:56): Exactly. So walk us through the model. Walk us through the, okay, so, so, so walk us through like how, how does it work? JK (10:01): So there’s three parts of the model the million dollar experiences model. And from this point, you’ll probably hear me call it MDE. So just remember those words, m France, m, m, d, e, million dollar experiences. Okay? And the model is comprised of three stages. So the three stages are strategy, sales, and scale. Okay? And under the strategy, strategy track, if you will, are three important components. Experience, design, offer, clarity, and the campaign plan. And so experience, RV (10:31): Design, offer, clarity and campaign des JK (10:36): Design, campaign plan. RV (10:37): Campaign plan. Mm-Hmm. JK (10:38): . Mm-Hmm. . RV (10:38): Okay. JK (10:39): And so I’ll, I’ll go through the two, three tracks and then I’ll just give you a little tidy taste under each one. So the stage, the next stage is the sales strategy, right? So that includes your event marketing, your offer invitation, and the agenda and zones, which is the way that we architect the right way to create a room of transformation. Like RV (11:02): A physical, like the physical space. JK (11:04): Yeah. So it’s the physical space. So the agenda and the zones are critical components to making sure that the sales strategy works. Interesting. mm-Hmm. . So that’s, that’s the game that’s actually a game changer. So we can even touch on what I think of this whole model are game changing things that people, most people are not doing, but the unicorns that are winning are doing because of this model. So the third stage is called scale. RV (11:28): Scale, yep. JK (11:30): And that is the seamless logistics, the unicorn team that you need to actually do the thing. Mm-Hmm. And then the money, math and metrics. So those are the, the nine, if you will core parts of the model that really make what you were mentioning earlier, Rory. It’s like, what’s so cool about this model and why I am kind of obsessed with it, and I’m proud that, you know, we’ve been able to create such phenomenal results is because it, it speaks to my soul around leverage. You know? Because it’s leverage for all the right reasons. There’s you know, you get to grow your personal brand because people who see people in the front of the room, you know, Rory as a speaker, it’s, and when you produce your own events, you create a lot of authority. And then you have the income piece, which again, this model is so great if you have a mid to high ticket offer. JK (12:24): And then the third piece of it is actually you compress the amount of time to make cash. Because within online funnel, which again, you need those systems. I have online funnels, I have all the things, but when you are committed to a live activation, you actually can make the same amount of money in three days that you can make in 365 days. That then gives you the capital you need to be better at marketing online in an ongoing way. So this is why I love this way of doing things. And I, I think that most people don’t look at live events with that mindset. They look at it as like, oh, I just have to do it because people seem to make pretty good money. Or, you know, again, Tony Robbins is doing it. Maybe I should be doing it. And I’m like, no, it’s not about it. Do it because you wanna create leverage, you wanna get your time back actually, and you wanna like have the biggest impact in the smallest amount of time. Mm-Hmm. . So that’s what those, RV (13:17): Let’s talk about the offer part. Okay. So when you say mid to high ticket offer Mm-Hmm. , what price point is that exactly? Like, is this a a hundred thousand dollars something or a $20,000 or a 5,000? Like what, what’s the range that this model kind of like Mm-Hmm. works for? JK (13:37): So I think it’s based on also the stage of business that you’re in. So I will say that at the minimum, it’s, it’s, it’s more worth it to do an MDE type of activation. If you have at least a $5,000 offer. When I say that, please listen to me, like perhaps you’ve written a book, right? And say you have this storied career, but right now people are starting to know you for a thing you want them to know you for. That’s why you go work with brand builders, right? You, you, you’re building your personal brand, you’re writing a book and you want to take some of what you’ve learned, but you know that people don’t really know you fully for this offer yet. An MDE event is great at that stage because let’s say it’s a five to $10,000 offer and you can get 50 people in the room, right? So let’s do easy math. ’cause This, I don’t wanna mess this up since we’re live on a podcast, but basically, let’s say you get, imagine if you could 25 of the 50 people to buy a $10,000 offer, right? That’s 200, RV (14:34): That’s $50,000 JK (14:35): Right? Now. That’s some nice money. And imagine that the cost of you bringing 50 people into a room with a $10,000 offer, right, is only 20 5K. So now we’re talking about not is that 20, that’s 10%, right? Which a lot of events only break even, or they cost more than they make because they’re not doing MDPE. So now your profit is 2 25. And for you, if you’re just, you’re, you’re just getting known, what a great way to go. Now if you’re already known, oh my gosh, the amount of money you can make, right? So a lot of times what we suggest to clients is do you have a 20 5K offer and a hundred k offer, basically, again, everyone’s gonna be different depending on a lot of factors inside of the model I just shared with you. But generally speaking, when you talked about Chris and Jen or Selena, those were the price points because they had already built, they had a platform, you know, they were good marketers that type of thing. And so then you can elevate to that. And I’m not saying at when you’re starting that you don’t have, you can’t have a hundred k offer. Absolutely. You can’t. It might make a lot of sense. And that’s why the offer clarity is so important of like, how does it fit in with the audience you’re inviting to the event? Yeah. Because it fits with the audience you’re inviting. They’re gonna say yes, they’ll figure out the money. RV (15:59): Well, and I just, I think it’s, there’s some, i I know there’s people listening right now that like, it’s challenging. They’re limiting beliefs to go, wait a minute, you can sell something that’s a hundred thousand dollars at the end of an event. Is it, is it, is it always two days or three days? Or does the agenda change? JK (16:15): Yeah. So the be so the best practice and what we’ve seen work the best for clients is a two and a half to three day event. Yeah. Generally speaking. And what I wanted to also mention is because RV (16:24): People aren’t spending a hundred grand after 20 minute webinar, that’s for sure. Correct. That’s, that’s not usually how JK (16:28): It’s going down. That’s, that’s for sure. If you have a sales call maybe, and you have a good sales team, or you’re good at sales, you might be able to do it right? But in a live event, if you want to get 30 to 50 to 70% of the people in the room to move towards a big offer, right? You have to you have, you need some time, you need some time to lay it out. You need some time to help them understand why it’s for them. So, RV (16:53): But you could, you think so, so, so first of all, how do you get 50 people in a room for 25,000? I mean, 50 people’s, not that many people. Mm-Hmm. . But it’s also gotta be the right people, right? In order to do this. Exactly. JK (17:05): So here’s the mon, so this is when kind of, I’m gonna pop up to the third track that I mentioned, which is the scale scale part scale, okay? Which is the money, math and the metrics. Okay? RV (17:15): Money, math, and metrics. JK (17:16): So to get what we know is like if we know the offer is a hundred k, let’s say, right? We gotta go find people who could demonstrate that they could pay that, right? So we build our traffic and marketing strategy as part of MDE based on those people. And so let’s say you know, you already have a list, I’m gonna go, we have a segmented list for us and we tell our clients you should do that too. Or part of the process is we’re gonna have to segment them first. So to find out who are our bigger players, right? Who are the people who are doing, let’s say a million plus in their business or more they’ve been in business for five years or more for a hundred k offer, generally speaking, that’s who’s gonna pay, right? So if I know about how much I have a hundred k offer, I’m gonna be looking for those people. JK (18:07): And there are three types of traffic, right? There’s what I call OPP organic paid and partnership traffic. And so in the strategy of who to get inside of the room, we ask ourselves what are our lowest hanging fruit in that OPP traffic model? So for example, if it’s partnership, I might say to Rory, for example, Hey, I have people, I’m doing this MDE event about MDE, and I could say, Hey, r Rory, I know we seem like great collaborative partners on this. It could be a win-win for some of your people. And I don’t even need you to nail anybody. Do you know anybody, like three people that you feel like could work for this? And when you take that type of care for a hundred k offer to actually ask partners to do that, you’re gonna have better qualified people in the room, right? JK (18:59): I don’t run paid traffic generally to events where I know my offer’s gonna be a hundred KI will run paid traffic to an event where I think my offer will be between 10 and 20 5K though. Because what’s cool about the MDE model is that getting somebody to pay you 10 or 20 5K is actually, and I say this with respect and humility, it’s quite easy if you use this model a hundred k little bit different treatment. You gotta work on the, the marketing strategy upfront in that pre piece that we talked about earlier. But that’s why it’s so important to architect a unique pre-launch in the event and post-launch strategy for your specific brand and where it’s at, at this moment, right? So that’s why I said it’s about timing and moment for you versus how much the offer should be. JK (19:47): Mm-Hmm. , I think that I, like, for example, when people build a funnel, and again, I love online funnels, but when they build a funnel and they wanna make 250 K, which I use that example, it actually will still take a ton longer to make 250 k with the regular funnel or a webinar than it will to do a three day, two to three day event, a two to three day event. I, I, I could bet my son’s future college tuition on it that you’re actually going to get a higher ROI if you choose this model because you cannot, an online funnel or an online webinar will never do what a live event does, which creates belly to belly conversation, right? Belly to belly conversation and energy that’s created in the room that’s palpable. And, and that you brought, if you bring the right people in, then everybody feels like family, right? Everybody feels like, oh, you’re like me instead of us trying to just push a bunch of people in a room who have nothing in common. And so that kind of caretaking is part of the model of like, oh, let me be smarter instead of mm-Hmm. Even just try RV (20:52): To get even. So even I hear you saying though that like a 10 to $20,000 offer is something that very legitimately could happen in like a, you know, a fairly mass market way in terms of running paid ads. If you, you, you’re following the system, hopefully you pushing ’em to a two to three, three day event, and then you’re, you’re, you’re making an offer, walk me through the event, like high level agenda. So you said experience design, but then you also had agenda and zones that was in Yes. Underneath the sales. Like, you know, there’s a lot of things you can do with two and a half days, right? It’s like we could sing songs, we could do exercise routines, we could bring in guest speakers, we could do, you know, small workshops, round table. Like there’s so many, there’s a lot of time to, you could use differently. And it, I mean, it makes sense to me. If someone’s coming in and then, you know, investing at a 10,000 or $20,000 level, you’re, that’s gotta be pretty intentional about how you’re using the time while they’re there. JK (21:50): Yes, exactly. And such a great question. So that’s why the experience design and the offer clarity that I mentioned earlier are the most important components to do first period. Okay? You don’t need to think about where you’re gonna have it. You don’t need to be thinking about even how many people you want there, okay? What you need to be thinking about is what’s your offer? And then you architect the experience around the offer. Okay? So that’s number one. Then the agenda’s job is to make sure that the offer is the star of the show, right? When you’re building your personal brand, I think of it like this, like Rory is the man, and Brad Builders is the company around personal brand development. This is what I call your monetization product strategy, right? So it’s like the product that’s associated with me, right? How do we make it the star, right? JK (22:42): And so the agenda is, and then make the messenger, the me driven messenger, which is the personal brand that’s delivering the show, is amplifying, look, you love, you want me, but what you really want is this process, this model, this thing that we have. And the agenda should reflect the model. So for example, here’s a little trick you start with, if you have a model, right, like I do, and Rory has a ton like MDE I’m gonna teach them MDE as the baseline of the agenda, period, nothing else comes into play. Then I ask myself, day one is always about challenging the limiting belief, working on the mindset, helping us all speak the same language while we’re here together for three days, right? So we work with our clients to be like on day one, when you open with your story and, and the model or the framework that you’re gonna be teaching over the next two to three days, what is gonna make them see themselves in the story and the, the framework, what is gonna do that? JK (23:49): And whatever that experience is, we create that as the first agenda item because now we’ve set the primer for all of the other things we’re gonna put on the agenda to support them in having that transformation. So that’s day one, generally speaking, day one is all about that. And whatever experiences you create, whether it’s breakouts, perhaps other speakers, which again, other speakers by the way, you gotta, they’re part of the primer. You pick speakers that not only help people come and elevate your brand, but also can buy into the framework. Because if it’s a separate conversation, they get confused, right? The audience goes, oh, I should go work with this person, or I should do this, or I should do that. And we wanna make sure that they’re laser focused. The reason that they’re here is to work with us. And when I say that, it’s because we done the work upfront to right. To invite the right people. You know, it’s, it. So, so we do that on day one. Day two is about one RV (24:46): Thing to just, just to double tap on one thing you said there. I I’m, whether it’s in an event model or for the purpose of making money or anything in general, I’m such a huge proponent of make the framework the hero, not the messenger, the hero. Yes. Like, you cannot scale a company when the messenger is the hero. It’s like, it has to be a framework, right? Like that, that’s such an important idea. And, and it’s also something that if you really care about impact, it’s one thing if you, it’s one of the best ways I think you’d tell about where someone stands in their ego. If if it’s really about ego, they’re gonna have a hard time making it about the framework because they want all the attention on them. If someone really cares about impact, they’re gonna work really hard. And that’s one of the things we do is help people create their frameworks in our captivating content. But it’s because you go, a framework can outlast you, A framework can be taught to other people, A framework can scale, a framework can be duplicated. Yes. So I really, really, I really, really love that. So, okay, so day two, so tell, tell me what happens day two. JK (25:52): Day two is, now obviously if you have a two and a half day to three day event, you have to be able to emphasize the most important parts of the framework that solve the problem that they came to solve. Right? So you have to do that by lunchtime on day two, because lunchtime at day two is the first time you’re gonna invite people into play bigger with you, right? Using the work. And so ev we call it like the hemispheres of the event, right? So think of the lunchtime on day two as like a tipping point moment. So everything before that is mindset and making sure that you’ve taken actually the best parts of your framework and taught it the best, not the weakest, not the least important. None of that give them the best, right? And, and the key is to show them that it’s better to do it with a trusted proven guide, a KAA group of people who understand the framework better than you do, which is usually your team, right? JK (26:55): Or your company. And so day two, morning is all about making sure you’re emphasizing and solving the problems. So they’re like, oh my gosh, I got so much value already, right? Then you’re making the invitation at lunchtime. Now after that moment, it’s all about emphasizing why it, the framework will solve all the problems that they came to solve. So all the content on the agenda after that is about choosing the top problems that they think that they have and using the framework to solve it in the agenda period. Okay? And, and you can do that in a very cool, interesting, fun way. There’s a lot of ways to do that. That’s where like, it’s, that’s fun for me to be your thought partner on like, here’s a way you could do it that doesn’t feel like academic or boring, but sometimes it, parts of it will have to be academic. JK (27:46): And, and it again depends on the offer and, and the type of crowd that, that you, you attract. So that’s what day two after lunch is about. And the reason we know so much data on the people who come is because in the pre-launch process, after they’ve chosen to come, we have this amazing sales tracker that is like magic, okay? Where we put all the attendees in and we sort them based on their problems. So we’re gathering all those data ’cause we ask them before they come and then we architect the agenda around solving the problem period, right? That’s where the magic happens. ’cause They’re like, oh my God, they’re reading my mind. Oh my God, this framework really like, does the job, you know, oh wow, I really trust her or him because the me, the mission-driven Messenger, our job is to tell stories and share other people’s wins to elevate how the framework has helped us become successful in whatever we’re teaching. JK (28:50): So that’s a key part is a lot of people do not look at the data, the people coming. They don’t ethically stalk their amazing people that are coming, that are getting in a plane, train or automobile to come to you and taking time away from their families, taking time away from their business to come. And so to me it is our responsibility and that’s why I love this framework to actually study them and go, what are they really meetings that we don’t waste their time? Because when you do that for people, they are like, I gotta have this thing. And it’s actually a good quality product and experience that they’re having in an ongoing way. And then now they’re telling everybody about you because they’re like, oh my God, that three days that I spent at Brand Builders or with Mass Brand Institute or you know, super connector media or impacting millions all these people, like, they’re gonna go, wow, I, I, I really got and I met some of my best friends and colleagues there because they’re like me. You know? And so that’s really what the other side of the invitation on day two is about, is amplifying those things. And then by the end of the day you know, you’re gonna look back and go, wow, I got a 50 or 70% conversion at least 30% and that was a lot more than I got from an online funnel and webinar. So mm-hmm, , yeah, it’s fine. And you can actually then extract all those pieces and turn it into content obviously too. RV (30:09): Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, so you, you talked about like offer structures, like being the most important. What are the parts that you have to nail about that, right? Because like I feel like there’s a lot of, I mean, clarity to me feels like, I mean, you said that and that’s why I feel like most of the time it’s just not that clear what’s included and what’s the result or the, the benefit or the outcome of if someone takes it up. But like, what are some of the keys around the offer clarity piece that either you see people screw up or you’re like, you know, make sure it’s this and not that. ’cause It’s not just the price point, right? I mean, a price is just a number. It’s really gotta be engineered from something other than just grabbing an arbitrary number out of thin air, JK (30:55): Right? So the two, the two things that I think are missing the most, and we touched on one already, is framework, framework, framework. Selling the process, not the person. Okay? So important and actually training yourself as a visualizer, right? The person who’s the messenger to realize that the business you, not the brand you, but the business you needs the framework, right? Your, your team, your company, your ability to serve more people is a, is gotta be a business decision, not a brand decision. And, and the framework is almost like your little clone. It’s your cloning device, if you will, that allows you to you know, replicate like you said and scale. So number one, we’ve already touched on that. Number two is you gotta nail what I call your rich niche, okay? And how I define niche, the rich niche. The rich niche, right? JK (31:52): Nail the rich niche. Yes. So I define niche a lot differently than I think other people. And I call your, to me, a niche is not the demographic or the psychographic or the person, the niche is the actual problem that you’re solving. And once you know the actual problem, then you go find the watering holes where the people who have the demographics and psychographics hang out. And then you use that to like focus your marketing efforts around. And so part of why offers don’t sell is because they really don’t know the problem that they’re solving. They really don’t. They, they think they do because then if I give you x amount of calls and a community platform and access to all of our educational content, and we’re gonna also assign you an advisor or a coach, those I know people will be like, oh yeah, I know those are just features and benefits. JK (32:53): They are literally just features and benefits and maybe they don’t need a coach, but you think they do to buy a 20 5K offer offer to you. Maybe they don’t. Maybe what they need is we do a kickoff for two hours with you, build your entire custom strategy using this process. And if you want, you can get a coach later, but that they’re getting a, a real win that’s palpable. And I think a lot of times again, we bloat the offers, we add a ton of bonuses. And by the way, I love bonuses, I love extra things. But the truth is that we live in a world now. And, and the way that you market online and offline is actually quite different than five years ago. Like, so if you’ve learned something five years ago, it’s not gonna be as relevant right now because people are in a state of overwhelm and over consumption. And that’s why we gotta like that. Like we gotta cut through all that noise and go, Hey, I see your problem. You actually told me this is problem. RV (33:52): I love this. And that’s so true. Like people bloat their offers with bonuses and it’s like more is more is not better it, and it, it, it really isn’t. It’s mm-hmm, , you know, Amy Porterfield, I asked her one time, I was like, okay, you’re the queen of courses. Like I get this question all the time. What’s the right amount of what, what, how long should a course be? And like if I charge this much money, it should be, you know, how long and this much money. And she said, that’s totally the wrong way to think about it. The right length of the course is as short as it possibly can be to solve the problem. And I was like, oh, ninja master , bingo. I was like, that’s so good. Like the right length is to be as, as short in the least amount of stuff to solve the problem. How do you know if you hit the right problem? I mean, one way you’ll know is you didn’t sell crap is that means you go, man, we, we didn’t, we didn’t hit it. But before that, like, are there things you see where you go like, ah, this person is really dialed in on the problem they’re solving and this person isn’t. JK (34:47): I keep, I keep coming back to, so two things, two tools inside the Mte model, you’re asking such quick questions. So remember when I said like stalking people ahead of time? Yeah. So first is architecting the right intake form when they’re choosing to come to your event and asking the right questions that really extract and make the problem come to the surface. You know? So asking better questions like be a better coach in your intake forms, meaning like, ask better questions so that they, it it, it brings to the surface what their problem really is. ’cause Then you can study that and make that part of the agenda, as I said earlier, the RV (35:23): Second. That’s good. JK (35:24): Yeah. The second piece of it is you know, asking, oh is to create a diagnostic that supports your framework. So for example, and you use that as part of either the pre-launch of the event or during the event depending on the space you have. Okay? And what I mean by diagnostic is a simple way for them to score themselves at solving the problem on their own. Okay? You do that early and you use your framework as the scoring mechanism. So it’s like, look at me, I just shared MDE, which is a nine part system with the three tracks, right? So if I were teaching MDE and inviting people to an MD workshop, I would say, there are nine things you need to create a million dollar experience, right? Score yourself on these nine areas. And I guarantee you there’s gonna be two or more areas where they’re gonna have a gap, they’re gonna have an atrophy. And people don’t buy from what they have, they buy from the gap. So they RV (36:28): Know. It’s also about that too is like, if you told them this is what your problem is, they’d go, no, I don’t have that. I got that covered. But the moment you have ’em fill out assessment, they’re like, oh dang, like, I really suck at this. Yes. And it’s them, it’s the it it’s them making the realization on their own of their blind spot versus like a salesperson telling them. Exactly. It’s so good. Y’all, I hate to cut this off there, there are few podcast interviews where I’m like, I wish we had more time. I wish we had more time. I have to cut this off. I don’t mean for this to be a cliffhanger, but like we, Jen and I both have a hard stop, as you could tell. This is why I had, I was like, we gotta have her on the show. RV (37:04): Like she knows what she’s doing and here’s what I want you to do. Go to brand builders group.com/mde MDE for million dollar experience brand village group.com/mde. If you are someone who is putting on a live event, thinking about a live event, maybe one day I’ll have a live event. But like, if you’re going, I want to do in-person events, you know, and virtual too. But I think it’s like, especially if you’re like one of those people that’s like, ah, screw virtual, I hate Covid and Zoom. Let’s get people in the room. Like, if you’re doing that, like, and that is your model, you gotta go check Jen out and her team brand builders group.com four slash mde. I mean, she’s given you so much value just on this call alone. I mean, structuring the agenda, structuring the offer, structuring the pre-event questionnaire, the diagnostic making, the framework, the hero. RV (37:56): Like, if you can’t turn this one podcast, and by the way, go leave us a rating on iTunes about how awesome our podcast is. ’cause Like I really believe that this podcast episode alone could make you tens of thousands of dollars. Like, so I believe that this woman can help you make a lot more than that if, if you have more time. So, so check that out. And Jen, this is so cool. Like, I, I just, it’s such a, you’re such an example too, of someone with like, such a specific problem you solve is monetizing live events. I don’t know, but like, I can’t even give you, but like three people in the world who even claim to be able to do that, that it’s like, that’s the the thing. So this is so good and, and we’re so excited about your book coming out and I think we should probably have you back to actually talk about that. ’cause That’s like building out your team and we could probably tie it back into this. But anyways, friend, you, this is awesome. This is so powerful. This stuff is great. JK (38:55): Well, I’m so glad it was valuable and I can geek out all day long with you, Rory Vaden, and I appreciate how much you’re helping the world and helping me, not just with my book, but getting messages that of people who have this intellectual property and, and expertise and helping us all grow even bigger. So thank you. It’s been so much fun. RV (39:16): It’s my pleasure, buddy. We wish you, we wish you the best. We’ll, we’ll be following your journey very closely and we’ll have you back again sometime soon.