Ep 402: How To Be Well Paid as a Coach with Mitch Matthews



If you’re driven to help people thrive, you’re already well on your way to success as a coach.

The next step is setting your prices right and finding the clients who want to pay you what you are worth.

Today’s guest, Mitch Matthews, has been an informal “coach” for most of his life, so when he decided to make a career out of this passion, he was faced with the conundrum of how to charge for something he had been giving away for free for so long.

In this episode, among many other insightful things, Mitch explains the journey that led him to where he is today, why the high prices that he charges for his coaching sessions are actually beneficial to his clients, some of the keys to being a great coach, and how to get to the point where you are charging the prices you should be (and feeling confident about it)!


  • Introducing today’s guest, entrepreneur, coach, podcaster, and joyful human being, Mitch Matthews!
  • Mitch’s mission: to encourage the encouragers and help you get well paid!
  • How the coaching world has evolved over the past 20 years.
  • An overview of Mitch’s journey in the coaching industry.
  • The foundation of good coaching.
  • Why money shouldn’t be your primary reason for becoming a coach (although there is good money to be made!).
  • The people who drive Mitch to do what he does. 
  • Characteristics of a successful coach.
  • The perfectionism trap.
  • Why Mitch charges the high fees that he does.
  • Mitch’s advice for how to determine your prices.
  • The magic number of options when it comes to higher ticket investments.
  • How to find and keep your ideal clients.
  • Mitch’s approach to contract terms.
  • How Mitch brings his faith into his business.
  • The prayer Mitch says before every conversation he has.
  • Figures that highlight how the coaching industry is booming.
  • Trends that are worth taking note of in the coaching and content creation industries.
  • Why Mitch isn’t worried about being replaced by AI technologies (and why he is excited about developments in this space).


“If you’re interested in becoming a coach or interested in becoming a speaker, I always say it’s got to start from a foundation of mission. You’ve got to have a heart for actually seeing people thrive.” — @mitchmatthews [0:10:13]

“There is money to be made [in coaching] but if you only get into it for that, or even if that’s your primary reason, you aren’t going to be able to sustain it.” — @mitchmatthews [0:10:52]

“You don’t have to be great at everything; you just have to be committed to bringing excellence.’ — @mitchmatthews [0:13:36]

“We’ve got to focus on progress, not perfection.” — @mitchmatthews [0:15:11]

“One of my biggest breakthroughs was when I realized that the money that we charge as coaches is more for our client than it is for us.” — @mitchmatthews [0:19:17]

“Choice gives us the illusion of control.” — @mitchmatthews [0:31:26]

About Mitch Matthews

Mitch Matthews is a successful entrepreneur, coach and podcaster.
He’s been able to interview some of the best business minds in the world for his top 0.5% podcast… DREAM THINK DO.
Plus, now he’s also on a mission to “Encourage the Encouragers,” by inspiring and equipping Coaches, Speakers and Content Creators to be the “Well Paid Encouragers” they deserve to be!


From “Bad Fit” to Well-Paid Encourager

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AJV (00:00:02): Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode on the influential personal brand, AJ Vaden, one of your hosts today. And y’all, you are in for a treat today. I got to start my day with one of the very first emails in my inbox. Was an email from Mitch. And here’s how I knew this was going to be a really great interview, is he felt prompted to go, I don’t know why. And you can totally pretend like I never sent this email , but here’s what I feel prompted to talk about on your show today. And here’s, I, I always know when somebody comes to the show with like, I feel this on my heart. Like rather what your beliefs are, if you’re listening to this show, you know, I’m big into my faith. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus. And like, so for me, I always call it a heavenly download of like, if God put this on my heart, this is what I’m gonna talk about today. And he hit me up with that, which I think maybe only one person ever has done that outside of you. So that’s how I knew that this was going to be a great episode way before our conversation even happened. And then I get on the Zoom and you are just a bright shining light of joy. And if you’re not watching this, you’re listening, you should just like pop on and just clip some of the zooms, cuz just MM (00:01:15): Come on over. AJV (00:01:19): Emos happiness and joy. So y’all we’re gonna have a really good time. Now you probably are wondering what was this person? But he talked, who a MM (00:01:26): Heck is it? Yeah, . AJV (00:01:28): So lemme introduce you guys to our guest on the influential Personal Brand podcast today. Please meet my friend Mitch Matthews. Now let me give you a very quick formal overview of who he is, what he’s done, but then also I wanna tell you why you wanna stick around. So Mitch Matthews is a successful entrepreneur. He’s a coach. He’s also a fellow podcaster, which, you know, I love. He’s also had lots of mutual friends on his podcast, including my awesome husband Roy, and some of our very good friends, Jamie Kern, Lima, and Louis Howell. So we’re already in really good companies. I love that. But here’s what I love most is that you guys know that we call our audience at Brain Builders Group mission-driven messengers. And what I love is that Mitch says he’s on a mission to encourage the encouragers, and he is out there to help coach, mentor, and inspire coaches, speakers, and content creators to be well paid. So now you know why I invited Mitch to be on the show today. So, Mitch, welcome. MM (00:02:35): Oh, thank you so much. It is such an honor, and I, I like you, I just couldn’t wait to get till this to this interview. So I’m, I’m really excited to be here. AJV (00:02:43): Well, I’m so excited because, you know, we serve this mission-driven messenger, the coach speaker, yeah. Content creative content creator, author, but also I love what you said, I wanna help them be well paid. Yeah. And I think that’s such an important part of this conversation because here’s what I know about many people in our audience is they, they feel like they’re on a message, like they’re on a mission, right? Yep. They have a message that, you know, it’s instilled in them and they’re like, man, I just gotta get this out into the world. But turning that mission into revenue sometimes takes longer than expect it’s time. Absolutely. There’s a disconnect sometimes. And so, first things first, I wanna tell our audience why they need to stick around is cuz one, we’re gonna talk about how do you get well paid, right? Doing what you love as a byproduct of doing good work and serving other people. AJV (00:03:34): But at the end of the day, it’s how do you become well paid for what you do because you do it so well. Right? also, y’all, I think this is really important. And again, re regardless of your personal beliefs whether you’re religious or you’re spiritual or none of those things, I would just encourage you to stick around and just listen to this part of it. Of, it doesn’t matter if you have a religious affiliation or what your spiritual standing is or if you’re totally undecided. This is going to give you some insight and some inclination on why. For some of us that feel really directly called, like for me, I’ll just use myself example, fond know Mitch, he’s gonna share his story. It’s like I got the privilege of experiencing God and miracles at a really young age. And so I’ve been really convicted not because of my parents, not because of people around me, because of my own personal experiences, but I also know not everyone has had those. AJV (00:04:33): But for when you get to encounter someone who has, I think there’s just a really important aspect and conversation that you can. So just take some takeaways of going, man, I’ve never heard it that way. I’ve never heard it described that way. I’ve never heard a conversation like before. So I would just encourage you to stick around for that. And then last but not least, we’re gonna talk about the coaching industry. And just what’s happening, what’s coming and what do you, what’s going on need to be prepared for. So those are all the reasons why you need to stick around. So, you know, we might be here for three hours. I MM (00:05:06): Was gonna say bar. I hope you packed a lunch. People. Let’s be do AJV (00:05:09): That. It’s gonna be great. It’s gonna be action packed. Lot of energy. Ok. So what all of that said to help our audience get to know you a little bit, Mitch, can you just like, you’ve been in the coaching industry, you’ve been coaching for two decades. Two MM (00:05:21): Decades. I started when I was 12. I started right outta elementary school. , AJV (00:05:26): But also, I know because I’ve also been in this industry for 15 years, right? That 20 years ago, it wasn’t cool to be a coach, right? It MM (00:05:35): Wasn’t cool to be a coach. Nobody knew it wasn’t cool. Nobody knew it was to be a coach. My uncle said, what is a coach? And who’s gonna pay you to work with them? It’s crazy. You know, all the, everybody’s got that grumpy uncle, all of that, right? And like Twitter didn’t exist, Facebook didn’t exist, all those things, right? It was a different world. But absolutely my, the quick story was back then I was in the pharmaceutical industry, and when I first got into the industry, it was a great fit. It was a, a technical cell, it was a relationship cell, and I had a lot of success there. And then I got into training, which was awesome. And then I got promoted into a bad fit job, which I am grateful for looking back on it. I am so grateful because that woke me up because the pharmaceutical industry was good, but it was not where I was supposed to live my life. MM (00:06:27): And that last bad fit job was a wake up call to say, Hey, this ain’t it. And if I hadn’t had it, I probably would’ve lost two decades there doing something I was good at, but not what I was meant and designed to do. Hmm. And so that woke me up. I actually really had some dark nights of the soul. Like, what am I supposed to do? I thought I was on the right track, obviously not big time. And I came home one night, really kind of downtrodden, brokenhearted, all of those things. And my wife puts a magazine in front of me. It was a business week magazine, and it was a story of an entrepreneur. And I’m like, okay. And she’s like, no, no, no, not the main story. Look at this sidebar story. It’s a story about his coach. And kind of like you were just saying back then, I was like, what is that? MM (00:07:14): And she goes, I don’t know what it is, but that’s what you do. Right? Because that’s kind of what I did. That’s what I did with our friends. That’s what I did at church. Like, I would sit down with people, I’d be that safe place, I’d be that sounding board, I’d listen and I’d ask questions. She goes, you’re just not getting paid for it. But that’s what you do. Figure out how to do that. And so I found a really expensive training program that wound up having no business training at all. And I became a more confident coach, but I had no idea how to actually build a business, start a business, that kind of stuff. So I started it on the side, kind of figured it out on the side of this bad fit job. And you know, I’m wildly grateful to say that I thought it was gonna take five years, but once things really started to click, and honestly, even some of the things you were just talking about as far as I, I kind of prayed into it really leaned into it, those kinds of things. I thought I was gonna be five years, but I was able to quit that bad fit job in five months and completely replace my income and not look back. So now, like you said, I’m a coach, a speaker, I say I’m a con or I’m a coach, developer and a podcaster. AJV (00:08:21): Mm. I love that. And yeah, I mean, what I think it’s really good. It’s like, you know, everyone talks about like how to make your side hustle, your main hustle, right? Right. That side thing, your main thing. Right? And here’s, here’s one of the questions I have because I think a lot of people, a lot of people at least in our circle, have somewhat of a similar kinda story. It’s like, man, it’s like, how could you just get paid for doing this thing that I love to do? What the heck, heck, I’m good at doing. People come to me for if I could just do this, it’s like my full-time living, like life would be so good. And then they, MM (00:08:55): I have it all figured out, right? Like, yeah, the birds would land on my finger and sing to me. Yeah. . AJV (00:09:01): But then they start doing it and they’re like, oh, wait this is a lot of work. This is a thing. I’m not getting paid as much as I thought. So here’s my question for the audience. MM (00:09:11): Yes. AJV (00:09:12): How do you know if you will be a good coach? MM (00:09:15): Yeah, absolutely. So I love that conversation because it’s so, so important. And one of the things, you know, you’ve touched on it, and I, I gotta say I tip my hat to you and Rory, you guys are juggernauts in our industry. I, I like, I’m not blowing smoke. I, I just really mean it, you guys, the value you guys put out there I think you guys exemplify the very things that we’re talking about. So I just, I just want to say that as we’re moving into this for real I mean, I ha I remember having Rory on the show and it was years ago. And I’m like, good lord, this guy just like, just so full of energy, but also great content, all that stuff. So I’ve loved you guys for a long, long time. So kind. So all that to be said. MM (00:10:00): So I think if you’re interested in becoming a coach, interested in becoming a speaker, I always say it’s gotta start from a foundation of mission. That’s actually what we talk about too. Like, talk about that. You’ve gotta have a heart for actually seeing people thrive. It’s gotta start there because I, and I, you know, I’m lucky enough, we’ve, we’ve had a coaching training program for years. We’ve been able to help thousands of coaches. And I’m always pretty open about it that if you get into coaching, just because of the economic opportunity, which there’s a lot, like, I now look back on that safe pharmaceutical job, and I’ve made as much in a month as I used to make in a year or more, right? So there is money to be made here, but if you only get into it for that, or even if that’s your primary reason, you’re not gonna be able to sustain it. MM (00:10:50): Because there are gonna be seasons that are hard. There are gonna be seasons. I think by God’s good design, there are gonna be seasons where the money either isn’t gonna be there or it’s gonna be lighter than you thought. Those kinds of things. And that’s when you have to double down and say, well, I am doing this for all the right reasons, it’s gonna work out, right? Mm-Hmm. . So I think it starts there. Like, you have to have that heart for a bigger picture, a mission to say, Hey, I want to help the world to thrive. And it doesn’t have to be everybody. Like you can look around and go, there’s a lot of jack holes out there, there’s a lot of people that I don’t want to help. And that’s okay, right? Like, you don’t have to want to help everybody, but you gotta have that population, that group, that tribe where you’re like, I eat, sleep and drink for these people. MM (00:11:33): I tell this story like I, my heart hurts for the grays because that’s what I was becoming in the pharmaceutical industry. I was becoming a gray. And I was reminded of this just recently at a keynote at a, it’s a Fortune 100 company. They had me come in, you’ve had this experience where they had me come in for a conference at their headquarters. They had me sit in the lobby for just a few minutes while I was waiting for my person to come pick me up. And I’m watching people go in and out, in and out, and I’d say 70% of them were gray. Hmm. Like wildly talented, obviously sporty dressers, you know, making bank, but their eyes just weren’t alive. Right? And my heart hurts. I just wanna grab those people and say, what are you supposed to be doing? You know, like, so I always say, I never want that flame to go out. MM (00:12:19): I, I do believe that that flame is put there in me by God. Like I think that’s a part of my God-given gifts is to have that, that fire, that burns for that person to say, Hey, I was put here to help people figure out why they were put here, and I’m just supposed to stoke that flight. So that’s, that’s big a part. Being a part of what’s gotta be at the foundation. At the same time, a very close second has to be a commitment to learning the basic business skills and a commitment to bring excellence, right? You might have either a god-given gift or you might have a true passion to help people. But if you’re not also committed to learning some of the basic business skills that you need to learn and to deliver excellence where you can, doesn’t have to be everywhere. MM (00:13:04): And you don’t have to serve everyone, but you have to be committed to delivering some excellence. I mean, you guys, we were talking about this bit before we hit record. Like, you, you guys bring so much excellence, like everywhere you look, when you look at the vains, excellence, excellence, excellence, I know you don’t try to do it everywhere. You don’t have to be everywhere, but you bring excellence. And I think that’s one of the best things that we do. We have to commit to that. That also means we don’t have to commit to everything. And it also means you don’t have to be great at everything. We just have to be committed to bringing excellence. And where we can’t bring excellence, you know, to certain areas. It’s like I’m committed to learning how to bring excellence. Those are some of those core things. Now we can go a lot deeper, but those are some of those core things that I, if I see a natural gifting and a true passion for helping people with a willingness to learn the business basics and commit to bringing excellence, that person can be successful. AJV (00:13:58): Mm-Hmm. I think that’s really insightful. And I’m on a double down on two things really quick. Because I know that, you know, for us, for example, it’s like we eventually do things excellent , eventually. That’s right. MM (00:14:16): Oh, it gonna be messy to start with. Right. And AJV (00:14:18): I think that’s the key. It’s eventually, it’s eventually because hundred percent, the truth is we do it wrong a lot at first. Yeah. And you said something about, you know, committed to excellence, which means you gotta be committed to get through the sludge. Oh yeah. And not give up. And so I think MM (00:14:38): That’s a really big deal. That’s a really big deal. Especially me, Mitch Matthews. I am a recovering perfectionist, right? So that perfectionism takes out more people that should be coaches, coaches and speakers than just about anything. Because that perfectionism, it’s to your point, they’re like, well, I should have a kick website from day one , or I should have this, or I should have that. It’s like, no, you should have something. You know, you should be good. Right? Like, you should go after good. But we gotta focus on progress, not perfection. That’s why I say excellence, not perfection. Yeah. Perfection is something that’s always gonna be elusive. That’s great if we go after it. But we have to commit to excellence. And excellence involves learning, not perfection. AJV (00:15:21): Yeah. I think that, and that’s, that’s the key. It’s, it’s the learning part. Right? Right. It’s you know, I think’s so funny because I’ve been reading this book, the Circle Maker. So if anyone is ever is anyone who’s like, come on, you have never read it. It is one of the best books. I’m like, li like, it looks like a workbook. Like every single MM (00:15:42): Is amazing. AJV (00:15:43): It’s so good. MM (00:15:44): Get it on Audible too. Cuz Mark Patterson has such a great voice and he reads, it was like, I’m sitting here with Mark and he’s reading AJV (00:15:50): Book. Oh good. It’s so good. It’s so good. And one of the things that I read, and I was just reading on this and I shared this with you earlier, it’s like my favorite, my favorite quote right now is pray. Like it depends on God, but work, like it depends on you. Yeah. And, and then that was the second thing that I kind of wanted to talk about is like, learn the business basics. Yeah. Right. You have to learn basic business skills. And just because you want to be in business for yourself doesn’t mean that it’s going to be easy and nor doesn’t mean you should. Right. Right. Being in business for yourself is a lot of hard work. So, and your opinion Right. Helping people through this Yep. For a lot of years. Yep. What would you say are the non-negotiables? You must learn this. Yeah. In terms of business skills, if you’re gonna make it. MM (00:16:35): I love it. I love it. Oh my gosh, yes. So boy, I am so glad this is gonna be four hours, so let, let’s just get into it. Right? Like, that’s great. So a number of things like, I mean, I, I know you guys in your countless episodes have gone after important subjects, like getting clear on your ideal client and we could talk about those kinds of things is so powerful, so important. There’s really good ways to do it, really bad ways to do it, all of that. But I think for us, like, like you had mentioned, I have a heart for encouragers. And I really do want encouragers, especially those encouragers to who decide to be coaches, speakers, and content creators. I want them to be well paid. Because if they’re well paid, that means they can do it. They can be a blessing to their community, a blessing to their family, and have more impact, right? MM (00:17:22): So that’s great. So money comes up a lot now as I, as we’ve been talking about, faith is an important thing for you guys. It’s a wildly important thing for me. And so this is something that I wrestled with because I do feel like a lot of my core foundational gifting of encouragement, of listening, of being, you know, excited, all of those things, right? I believe that’s a gift from God. So when it came to coaching I bumped up against something that a lot of people experienced that, oh crap, how do I charge for something I’ve kind of done my whole life? Like I was called, I was called the pastor in my all men’s dorm in college, not because of my holy living , it was more because if anybody had an issue, made a big mistake had a setback, girlfriend broke up, whatever, they came to the pastor and I just talked with them. MM (00:18:23): Like, and it wasn’t always faith-based, sometimes that came up, but most of the time I was listening, I would give them feedback, I would encourage them, I would be a sounding board, all of that right? In, in my career, I got into training and, and really coaching became a core part of what I did as I was building up salespeople in the pharmaceutical industry. Mm-Hmm. , but I didn’t get paid for those things. Right. That was a natural part of who I was. It was an extension. But then now all of a sudden I’ve got a business, I’m a coach, I want to be a coach. How the crap do I do this? And how do I charge thousands of dollars for something I have spent my whole life giving away? Hmm. And one of the biggest things I know in our back and forth, you were like, Hey, what was one of your big breakthroughs? MM (00:19:06): Right? And I can tell, I can pinpoint different things that happened to me that before the event, the world was this way after the event, the world was this, this way, you know, before this relationship started, my world was this way, you know, after that relationship, boom, my world, you know, expanded all those things. But I think one of my biggest breakthroughs was when I realized that the money that we charge as coaches is more for our client than it is for us. Hmm. That’s good. Okay. And I tell my clients this, it’s so funny. I have a A C E O that I’m working with right now. Big Jesus guy loves Jesus, all that stuff. But he said, your, and he didn’t use this language, but he was like, you are mother fluke and expensive. And I’m like, I know, right? . but he said, he said, but you’re worth it. MM (00:19:56): And I said, well, thank you right Now, here’s the deal. He knew I was expensive because when we started to talk about the POS possibilities of working together, and we talked about my rates, he was like, holy crap, that’s expensive. And I said, I know, but that’s for you. And he goes, what do you mean? And I said, brother, if I send you this invoice and you decide it’s time to go, like if you pay this invoice, and I charge all upfront, that’s what I do for my coaching all upfront. And it’s again, for them, I say, this is the biggest indicator that you are all in. Mm-Hmm. , you will know without a shadow of a doubt. This is go time. Because I said, you know, I always do a complimentary call before I know some people say it’s a sales strategy for me, it’s a filtering strategy. MM (00:20:48): I wanna make sure they’re gonna be a good fit. It’s as much for me, it’s probably the complimentary call is more for me than it is for them. And I tell ’em that, but I always say, Hey, listen, if we make it through that comp call, I will know why this is or isn’t important enough for you. Like right now why this matters. Right? And I said to him, I said, listen, you know, you have been thinking about doing what we’re, what we talked about in the complimentary call for years. And you’ve read books, you’ve gone to a couple of retreats. Those are great, right? But when you make this investment, that is the ultimate sign to you, God and the universe, this is different. And I tell people all the time, I’m like, it might be the most expensive thing you’ve ever put pen to paper for other than your house or your car. MM (00:21:37): But when you do that, I want you to have a big goofy grin on your face. And they sometimes will, you know, it’s, we’re on Zoom now. They’re like, what are you talking about? I’m like, you can have the biggest goofiest grid on your face because you can know it is go time. Mm-Hmm. , now is the time you are committed. This is different. This represents a new season for you. Go for it. And I have literally, I kid you not aj I have had clients like their spouses have taken pictures of them while they’re at their computer, you know, processing the invoice going big of me, gr you were right. Like you’re right. You know, and their spouses sometimes are their significant others or, you know, coworkers will be like, this is nuts. I can’t believe it. But they’re like, I felt it. MM (00:22:21): And so there’s a lot of different aspects to deciding on your rates. There’s a lot of different aspects to deciding how to put packages together, all of those things. But at the core of it, you have to realize, yes, them paying you and paying you well, pays for a roof, pays for food on the table, all of that stuff. My, we have two boys, they like to eat. I like a roof. I like air conditioning. I’m a big fan. So I recognize that money does come for me. But for the most part, that investment is for them. And I, I have a friend that a very successful coach and even more expensive than me. And she goes, it’s amazing. Every time I raise my rates, I get to become a better coach because the people are more committed, they’re more all in all of that. And it’s like, yep. Isn’t that the craziest thing? So I know that’s one of those aspects, but when that switch flipped in my head, all of a sudden, a lot of things change to my business. AJV (00:23:17): You know? But I mean, here’s the thing that, you know, I just as you were talking that it correlates, it’s like the more money that your clients pay you, the more one bought in they’re in. But two, like that is a form of accountability, right? A hundred percent. If I spend $2,500 on a coaching program, it’s easy for me to, not that that’s not a lot of money. It is. Right. But it’s easier for me to go, I, I have got all this work stuff I gotta do versus if I really busy MM (00:23:45): 20, AJV (00:23:45): But if I spent 25,000, I’m going here. No. I need to get my ROI outta that. I gotta That’s MM (00:23:52): Exactly right. I’m gonna So that up with a biscuit, right? They are not gonna miss a drop. That’s exactly right. And that’s, that’s what I love about this. And this also, we could speak to this a little bit, but this also speaks to the reason you want to have packages. Mm-Hmm. , especially as coaches, and you know this, but I see coaches that are not charging enough for an hour of their time. But the bigger challenge is, I always say like, you gotta sell in packages. And again, it’s a benefit to you as a coach, but it’s also more importantly for the client. Because if you sell in packages, which means 10 sessions or 20 sessions or 20 sessions and a, a day and a half retreat, you know, those kinds of things, it will allow you to have the time that’s needed to get what you do done. MM (00:24:44): I see coaches out there floundering, saying, well, I’ll coach you for a couple of sessions, or we’ll get started for a month. And like I said, people have less skin in the game and you can’t do your best work because, you know, I know for me, my podcast is called Dream Think Do, which I hope is catchy, but it’s also a description of how I work with people. And it, like in a three month period, we have spent about a month dreaming, getting clear on the vision of what they want to do. We do a month of thinking, which means planning and logistics, and actually drawing up, like how can we get that done? And then we have a month of doing, if it was a three month package, that’s how it would break down. And it, I need that time to get the full effect. And honestly, you know, somebody will come to me and say, well, can I, can I just buy a month of that? It’s like, no, I don’t want you to start this process without knowing how to finish it. Yeah. I would do you a disservice by only delivering a chunk of what we do. So wait until you can afford the whole thing. Because I don’t want you to get started and not finish. AJV (00:25:46): Okay. So super tactically speaking here just for a second, because I think there’s lot of really, really good nuggets for everyone who’s listen one well, the more you price, right, you’re going to price yourself out. Right. Which is really important as a coach because of supply and demand issues, right? Right, right, right. Yep. Less supply. Right. It means you gotta charge more, right? Right. And so I think there’s a lot of that. So as you’re talking about this, so it’s like, let’s say that somebody is listening until they, today they’re stepping into this going, all right, I’m gonna go all in. Right? I, yeah, I’ve been tip toing around this. I’ve been, it’s a side hustle. I’m going all in. How would you say, like, where would somebody start to go, this is what I’m gonna charge. MM (00:26:30): Yep. So , there’s a lot of different ways to do this, right? There’s some of it is to look at your ideal client and say, okay you know, get a sense of you know, what they’re gonna charge. So like a lot of my coaching clients are CEOs, entrepreneurs, founders. They’re probably making anywhere from 300 to a million a year, right? So if I come in at $2,500, they will not see that as, oh, that’s a bargain. They will see that as a problem. Mm-Hmm. that will actually make them concerned. Right? Whereas if you’re going to teach or if you’re gonna coach teachers as an example, which is possible, right? It, there’s a good chance I wish teachers made 300 to a million. They probably should. Cuz they have to deal with kids and parents, right? So I wish they did, but their disposable income’s probably gonna be lower. MM (00:27:23): So you’re gonna probably price a little bit lower because of that, right? But I always say commit to the price. You can say without your voice cracking , which is legit, right? And then also when you’re first getting started, commit to two and then double. And what I mean by that is, I’ll give you an example of how I had to do it, right? Because I’m a product of this very process because when I first got started, I thought, and this, this is, you know, back in covered wagon times like 20 years ago. Like, but like I thought, oh my gosh, if I could just make $2,000 as a coach from one client, that would be amazing. I’d be so rich, you know, all that stuff, right? So I didn’t know, but I could not get that out. Like, the last time I charged for an hour of my time was when I mowed lawns as an 11 year old, right? MM (00:28:15): Like, it was so weird to say, well, I charged $2,000 for this. So I knew I couldn’t say 2000. Like I, I, there are people now that go through our programs and they’re like, I charged $7,500 right out. And I love that, right? Because they’re like, that’s what you charge, or, you know, that’s what you said, or you gave this example package, why wouldn’t I use that? I can say that without my voice cracking. Go for it. I couldn’t, I just wasn’t that confident. I didn’t know, you know, all that stuff. Mm-Hmm. . But I made the commitment. I said, okay, my first two, I said, I’m gonna charge 90 or $970 for this coaching package, but I’m only gonna sell two at that level, and then I’m gonna sell $2,000 coaching packages. And so I, I had to work my way up. And again, I know there are some people with enough confidence and a lot of times if they get the right training for people like you and Rory and me, like they can do it a lot faster and go higher rates a lot sooner. MM (00:29:09): But the biggest thing is get started. So start at a level where your voice doesn’t crack and then commit to double it at least a few times. I know. That’s what I did. Basically. I, I did two at $970, I did two at $2,000 and then I kept doubling it until I got to $5,000 and then I held there for a while, which was great, right? Mm-Hmm. . But it’s that whole thing of, I know for some people they’re like, oh, I want to charge $7,500 right away, but I don’t feel like I have enough confidence so they don’t start Hmm. Like get started because a, you know, a moving vehicle is so much easier to steer and direct than a stalled out vehicle. Mm-Hmm. . So find ways to start. Now there are tactical, you know, tactics around putting packages together that make those packages more compelling. MM (00:29:56): You know, make it kind of, we always say we want your ideal client to see themselves in your packages. So that conversation shouldn’t feel like a sales call. It should feel like they’re looking in a mirror. Like, I want that, how did you know? I want that. That’s freaking amazing, right? So it’s like, there’s, there’s tactics to that as well. But I would just say, Hey, at least get started. And it seems like again, if you could go with a price where your voice doesn’t crack and then commit to double it a few times, that allows people to get started, get momentum and get to the price point they want by actually doing it as opposed to worrying about it. AJV (00:30:33): Yeah. I love that. And just so much of that does come down to confidence, belief in yourself, right? Yeah. Now you’ve mentioned these packages, which I think is a really important second part of what I wanna go into tactically. Yeah. cuz you talked about pricing upfront and packages. Yep. Right? Yep. So yep. Walk, walk the listeners through. What are you talking about when you say packages? MM (00:30:53): Yes. So I love it. So packages basically. So there’s a lot of smart people that have done research on this kind of thing, and people love choices, right? It, it’s interesting, poi choice actually gives us the illusion of control. Okay? So when we have a choice, when we walk into Starbucks and there’s 47 different ways to get a cup of coffee, there’s a deep part of our hearts that go, yes, I am in control. Give me a skinny flo, you know, Floy, mac, ccino nut, whatever, right? Like, and I have control over my domain. Yes. Right? Now when it comes to higher ticket stuff, as you know, basically the magic number, people still want choice. But when it comes to higher ticket investments, three is the magic number. If we go over three people, teeter then into overwhelm. That’s why Starbucks it, you know, you could buy a cup of coffee for eight bucks, no problem, but that’s not a high ticket. MM (00:31:54): So we can have 4,700 different ways to get pro wrap up, whatever, right? But with high ticket items, three is your magic number. Now what you want, I always say look to the car companies, right? Look at Toyota. They have a Corolla, they have a Camry, and then they have the Lexus. They’re, they’re there for a reason. They’ve done the research. They know there are gonna be some people who go, you know what, I’m just outta college. I need the Corolla. That just makes sense. It’s a nice car. Got good gas mileage shot. There’s gonna be some people who look at the Corolla and go, I could have the Corolla, but I want the Camry. I really, you know, I want a little bit more room. I want to pull up and have people say, that’s a nice car. I want something that’s reliable. MM (00:32:38): I want something I can have for a long time. And then there are gonna be some people who say, give me a little Lexus all the way. Like, I want the gold plated gear shift, right? Like all the stuff, there’s just gonna be some people that are always gonna pick that top tier. Mm-Hmm. . Now Toyota knows that part of the reason they have Lexus is some people will buy the Lexus. Toyota also knows that when the Lexus sits next to the Camry, it makes the Camry people feel better about their decision because they’ll look at the Lexus and go, man, that looks a lot like my Camry, but look at how much I’m saving. Look how smart I am, look how practical I am. Look at, you know, all those things. So that’s why we also wanna offer choice because it allows us to deliver different things that our clients need. MM (00:33:27): Now, we never wanna deliver something our client doesn’t need, but like you can have packages that offer different levels that allow you to deliver at different levels. So you might have an entry level, you might have a bootcamp, an intensive, a three month where you’re gonna work with people 10 sessions in three months, right? And that’s gonna get you get them started. And that’s kind of your Corolla, that’s the silver level, right? Then your gold, it might be the bootcamp plus an additional 10 sessions, but those are once a month. So now you can say, Hey, this package, that’s your gold option, that’s your Camry that gets them a full year of working with you. Like how freaking awesome is that? And then your platinum, your Lexus is, maybe it’s the full year of coaching, plus they come and spend a day and a half with you somewhere or you, you know make an arrangement with a spa. MM (00:34:17): Like one of my platinum packages for my CEOs and and high level people is I will do an a day and a half retreat at Big Sky Montana. I used to live in Montana, we know Montana, like, you know, like the back of our hands. I’ve got a place out there where I can go, I can book it out. And basically we spend a day together and then either have a half day of whitewater rafting hiking or skiing depending on time of year and depending on their interests. Now, some people see that and that package is crazy expensive, right? Some people see that and go, I want that. Some people see that and go, I can’t afford that, but I want the middle package. And maybe as we work together, I can afford the big package next year. Like I used to think having a more expensive option might offend people. MM (00:35:02): It might hurt people’s feelings and if it does, they’re not your ideal client, right? What I’ve found is most of the time those higher level packages inspire them to know that you see something bigger for them. Mm-Hmm. , you are holding them capable. And oftentimes it makes them go, even if I can’t afford it, I want it and I wanna work with a person that offers that. That’s so good. So generally, like what I see is it doesn’t those higher packages and, and let them be stuff you really want to do. Like I’ve got a coach that went through our program, used to be a professional athlete. Now he coaches basically people who were either professional athletes or, you know, did something amazing in their life change. So now they’re doing something else. So fitness is a big part of almost every one of his clients. MM (00:35:49): So he has an arrangement, arrangement with an Olympic training facility. So his big, you know, Lexus kind of platinum package is two days where he meets with a client, they hang out, they go work out, then they come back and dream some more, and then they go work out on this thing and then they dream some more and plan some more and then they go do this thing. So it’s like, think about dream about what would you love to do with your clients. It can be expensive, it can be amazing. And obviously they’re paying for your travel. So like, it can be whatever you want. I actually, one of my co coaching clients, a big thing happened for her in Paris. So twice a year she takes five to six of her clients to Paris. That’s a part of her big package is not only is it the trip, but it’s also like-minded people hanging out at the Eiffel Tower, that kind of stuff. So it really can be stuff that gets pretty exciting. AJV (00:36:42): Yeah, I know. I love that. And it, and that makes me think of two other quick questions. Yes. And I’m gonna pivot just a tiny bit. So I love it. I know that there are people listening to this going, yeah, that’s all’s awesome. Where do I find these people who wanna pay me $25,000? Right? MM (00:36:59): Right. Exactly. Where AJV (00:37:00): Do I find them? So I would say it’s like, where do you start? Like yeah. You know, for everyone who’s going, man, I’ve got a good coaching practice, but it’s like I do need to increase my prices. I de yeah, I do need to uplevel things because I’m giving away a lot for free that I’m not charging for. Yep. So in order to do that, like how do you find your ideal customer? MM (00:37:21): Right? I love that question. And it is so real, right? And it is so important. And I do think that, you know, one of the things that’s wild is especially when I work with people who are either in our program or thinking about entering our program they’ll ask me questions and I will, I will ask a follow-up question. And that is, are you getting paid for that coaching? Like, they’ll bring up a problem they’re having with a client and I’ll say, are you getting paid? No. I was like, well I have good news because once you start getting paid, those are free client problems. paying client problems, you don’t have those problems anymore. Mm-Hmm. , what’s beautiful about that too is, you know, I know for me when I first got started, if I had a couple of clients a month, right? Like it’s one of those things where I’m like, hey, this is, this is working, right? MM (00:38:11): Like, I had to find a place to start. But once those people started to pay, I realized like I don’t have to have 20 clients a month in order for this thing to work. If I’m pricing this right, I only need a few. That’s why I laugh sometimes at, you know, some of the coaching you, you probably laugh too, some of the promises, some of the coaching programs that you see in your Instagram feed where it’s like 30 clients by the end of the week for one-on-one coaching, and you’re like, why that h would somebody want 30 clients in a week? That’s nuts. Like, I wouldn’t want that. Like I’m like, do you, like I get why somebody would offer the moon, but like that just means you don’t know what you’re offering mm-hmm. and you probably can’t deliver on that. Right? So I always say like, as you start to get clear on your ideal client, they’re a lot more closer at hand. MM (00:38:59): But as you start to, as you start to give yourself permission to charge for those things, right? It doesn’t take a lot for it to start to get traction. And, and I will say this, one of the things I’ll, I’ll just throw out another strategy that almost everybody when I, when they start working with people, they, they’ve all had that cringe. Like, I knew I shouldn’t offered to do this coaching for free or I knew I shouldn’t have you know, offered to do two sessions with this person cuz it’s brutal. But almost everybody has had at least one client where they’re like, oh, that’s what it is. This feels great, right? Mm-Hmm. . And there’s a lot of different programs and again, we don’t have four hours. I wish we did, but there’s a lot of different ways where you can find clients. MM (00:39:45): But I always say one of the best ways to find more clients that are ideal are to start with your ideal clients. Mm-Hmm. . And so, and I always say make that easy. So one of the things that I do, I do this to the, to the day, right today, right? Is basically with my ideal clients, I let them know halfway through their program 80% of the way through the program and on their last call, I remind them that anytime they refer someone to me, and if that person signs up, they will get two free coaching sessions. So I have coaching clients that have you know, earned 20 extra sessions, but that also means they’ve brought me 10 high ticket clients because birds of a feather flock together. And it’s amazing how, again, like I don’t have a huge social media following. MM (00:40:37): I always say like, literally that is my prayer, Lord, help me help as many people as possible and be known by as few people as possible . Cause I’m an introvert. I am not doing this for fame. I am not interested in fame at all. No, I love that. So it’s like, help me, help me to reach the people I’m supposed to reach. But if I’m never a household name, thank you Lord, that’s good with me. I love it. Mm-Hmm. , but I always say, Hey, listen, start with where you started, right? Like, continue to grow. And what’s amazing about that is, you know, as you do that, it’s, it, my wife even was like, okay, so she named one of the clients, she goes, how many free sessions is she up to? And I said, well, she’s up to 2020 free sessions. And she’s like, oh my gosh, that’s a lot of free sessions. I said, but yeah, that’s about $200,000, you know, 150 to $200,000 worth of revenue. I think that’s a good investment for you . You know, and it’s like, but it’s, it’s great, right? And it’s a win-win. And she, this, you know, clients are happy to do it. And you know, again, it, it just truly does make for a win-win. AJV (00:41:39): I love that because it’s like, instead of paying referral fees or affiliate fees, it’s like no, get more sessions. Give MM (00:41:46): Them what they more what they want. And I always say, listen, AJV (00:41:49): I love that MM (00:41:49): You get these in your back pocket no time limit. Yeah. So you get these and you don’t have to use them in three months. These are, you got nine one one status you can call because those people, those are your advocates, right? Yeah. Those are the people who are yelling about you, but those AJV (00:42:05): Are the people you want to still do call. Exactly right. This is in addition to being awesome customers, they’re your lead source. Yep. Right? And it’s like, why would you give them money and send them on their way? It’s like Exactly. MM (00:42:16): Plus. And there’s data, you’ve seen this probably, but there’s data that shows that if somebody wants to do something like that, like refer and you give them money that actually causes dissonance. Mm-Hmm. . Whereas if it’s something like this a in-kind, like something that they actually want, it doesn’t feel transactional. Like I’ve even seen people say, well I’ll give them a gift certificate to such and such, or I’ll send ’em a hundred dollars Amazon card. Apparently the data you loo the satisfaction drops. I love the, the book drive and it is just, I mean he talks about how sometimes the very thing that we think is gonna motivate people is not what motivates people. Yeah. But in this case, I’ve just found that it really does. People feel really good about it. AJV (00:43:02): I love that. I think that’s awesome. And again, it’s, we’ve heard it a thousand times before, but we’ll hear it a thousand more times. It’s like, make your services so good that your customer force becomes your sales force. Right, right. That’s what we’re talking about here. Okay, so the other quick question I had, yeah. And then gonna pivot is I would love to hear your quick perspective on contract terms, right? Do you have contracts? Are they three months, six months, nine months, 12 months? What are your recommendations? MM (00:43:31): So I definitely have contract terms and I put the contract terms in my electronic invoicing. And basically those contract terms are reflective of the package. So it will be of basically, you know, saying, Hey, it’s for this amount of time. There’s other specifics and I’m not a lawyer, I don’t play one on tv. So, you know, we talk about some of those elements in our training. But one of the things that I speak to is, hey, if you are gonna cancel, if you need to cancel on a call, do it with at least 24 hours notice. And if you don’t, you will stand to forfeit that call. Mm-Hmm. , I believe things that are in your contract should be things, you know, they always say good fences make good neighbors. Right. If people are clear on the boundaries, everybody tends to play nicer in the sandbox. MM (00:44:16): What I find is when those things are outlined in your contract, that sends the signal, Hey, this person’s a pro. This is not just like having coffee with my friend at Starbucks. This person is a pro, this is, this is intentionality, this is, you know, they’re professional, all these things, right? But what I also love to do is I love to have those things in my contract that are there to protect me, but they also oppose as gifts if I choose to give them mm-hmm. . So as an example, one of my clients had to cancel two hours before our call last week because they had a sick kid. They said, Hey, even in the email, hey, they actually went to my assistant, Sam, Sam, tell Mitch I can’t make it. I know it’s in our contract. I’ve lost this call. It’s totally okay. MM (00:45:01): Please reschedule this, blah, blah, blah. Now that isn’t our contract. I absolutely could say, yep, you lost it. And I mean, I have every right to do so. And it also allows me, I don’t, I very rarely get jack holes as clients. We’ve got a pretty good filtering. But if somebody was being a jack hole, I absolutely could adhere the contract. Sure. But I always say, if the boundaries are there, then it’s also a gift if I choose to give it. And that’s what we did. Sam knew what I would do, my assistant knew what we would do. She’s like, I know what Mitch will say. Do not worry about it. We’ll get you rescheduled. You will not lose this call. Take care of your kids family first. That’s what we believe. And that’s, I mean, and talk about what that did for this client. This client was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome. Just, you know, even more connection, trust, and loyalty. So yeah, AJV (00:45:48): I think that’s just again, you know, back to so many former episodes that we’ve had for all of you out there who are coaches or consultant speakers, it’s like, contract terms make a difference. Yeah. And it’s, those have a variety of things to ’em, but just make sure that they’re clear and set forth. Okay. So I’m gonna pivot just a little bit cuz we have just like five minutes left and there’s, I know there’s two, two more topics that I wanna talk about, you know, kinda high level. And you know, one of the things that, you know, I have found to be true, and so I would love just to hear your thoughts on this, for everyone who’s listening, listening is no matter what kind of coach you are, everyone does life coaching, right? And so I think it’s always so funny when people say, I’m a life coach, and I’m like, is it all coaching, life coaching, ? I didn’t know that was a category. And so one of the things though I know from our audience is that we do have a pretty strong faith-based spiritual Yeah. Audience. And I also know that a lot of people struggle with how do I bring that part of my life into my business? Should I, yeah. How do I, or should I just keep it separate? And so Yep. What are your thoughts? MM (00:46:58): So I love it. Oh my gosh. This is, this is where we could really talk for four hours. So one thing that I found, because I I, you know, in 2002, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, none of that existed. Cancel culture. Like you could tick somebody off, they might tell a friend or the newspaper, nobody will know about it. So it’s a, it’s a different era. Like we have to recognize this is a different era. Mm-Hmm. at the same time, what I’ve realized is that if I’m not concerned about being right, if I’m only focused on helping, oftentimes that allows me to navigate these waters really well. So when I might put out a blog post or a social media post and I include a Bible verse, I’m not saying I’m right. Anybody who doesn’t believe this is wrong, I’ll just say, Hey, this really helped me today and this is why. MM (00:47:54): Right. I’m not trying to say, if you don’t believe this, you’re wrong. Or if you don’t believe this, we can’t be friends. It’s just, Hey, I’m just trying to help. And I will often like with, we have two podcasts dream, think do and encouraging the encouragers. And in both of them, I’ll give them a heads up saying, Hey, we’re gonna get into some spiritual stuff. And if that is not your brand of vodka, just jump to another episode. No harm, no foul. And I’ll also say, I know in both cases, both audiences, you don’t have to believe what I believe, but that you’re more than likely to be open to talk about spiritual stuff. So that’s what I do is I say, Hey, listen, if that’s your not your brand of vodka, go to another episode. If you stick around, I hope you’re at least open to talk about spiritual stuff. If you are, I’m, I’m guessing since you’re still listening to this episode, we’re good to go. So we’re going for it. And what I find is, again, if I’m not focused on having people see that I’m right, I just wanna be helpful mm-hmm. that helps me navigate a lot of waters. AJV (00:48:58): Yeah. That’s so good for, yeah. Not just faith and spiritual conversations, but political conversations. Right. Race conversations. Because we MM (00:49:08): Need to have those conversations. Right. We need to be having those. I’ve also realized that there are some conversations you shouldn’t try to have on social media, AJV (00:49:16): Like most of of them, MM (00:49:17): you shouldn’t. But, but at the same time, like we need to be having these conversations. And if we go in, not focused on being right, I always say it’s a bit of a churchy word, but if you, like, if I’m checking my heart to say, let me be righteous, not worried, be worried about being right. Mm-Hmm. , then I tend to hit people with love. I tend to hit people with grace. All those things. So that’s, but I, you know, there’s, there’s a part of my hurt that wants to get ’em, you know and be right and prove myself and all this stuff. It’s like, eh, that doesn’t tend to work. And it’s not fun. So, no, AJV (00:49:50): I, I love that because I think that this is a, a growing conversation of people are going, man, it’s like, I want that to be a part of the conversation. I feel like my clients are seeking it, but I don’t know what the boundaries are and I don’t know how to overstep it. And I think that’s a really great way. It’s like, hey, if you’re just focusing on helping of like, Hey, I don’t know if this will resonate with you, but this is something I go to, or this is something that I read, or it’s something that I saw or something I heard and it really helped me. Or I, I read this and I thought of you. It’s like always through, always through the lens of it. I just wanna help. I just wanna support and sharing it through your experience, not being preachy, but sharing it as like, Hey, regardless of where you’re at, I can only share what I’ve been through. MM (00:50:32): Yep. My experience AJV (00:50:34): Of helping and serving, that’s really, really good. And I, MM (00:50:37): I like nobody. God never forced anyone into heaven. He’s a gentleman, right? He loves people. And I think that’s the best way. Like that we can be a raging. Curiosity is love. Well bring excellence, charge for what we do. It’s a part of it, right? Mm-Hmm. , like all of this goes together. You know, so that we can be a blessing and be blessed. That is literally my prayer before every episode, before even this conversation. Lord, help me to be a blessing and help me to be blessed. Amen. AJV (00:51:08): Yeah. So good. And it’s like, I’ll drop another book out there. No. If y’all listening, have never read every good endeavor from 10 Keller. Yeah. I just love this book so much cuz it talks about how like we were created to create Yeah. We were created to work and somewhere along the lines work became a four letter word. And it’s not like work is good. Like somehow we turned it into bad. It’s like we were built for this. Yep. And built to receive abundance and goodness. And but man, you gotta work, right? We’re we do, we’re built for it. All right. Last question. I know we’re already one minute over, but I’m gonna go just like one minute more. I love MM (00:51:44): It. If you can do it, I can do it. Let’s do AJV (00:51:46): It. The coaching industry is booming. Yes. It’s love it. You know, if you just do a quick LinkedIn search, there will be more than 1.2 million people that pop up with a title of coach just in the United States. It’s estimated to do over 20 billion. MM (00:52:04): That’s with a b. AJV (00:52:05): With a B just this year. Yep. And it’s, it’s booming and it’s been exponentially growing since 2020. And I asked this often with absolutely no expectation of what your answer will be. More outta curiosity of what trends or insights do you see in the world of coaching, speaking, writer, a writing content, creating Yeah. That you think is worth this audience knowing. MM (00:52:34): I love it. So I think you’re exactly right. It’s interesting, you know, haven’t been in the industry for two decades. I’ve seen a lot of things come and go, seen some waves happen, see different things with the economy. It’s interesting because there’s a lot of people who are like we might have a recession coming. And it’s like, whoa, cool. Cuz people will need help navigating that. And what’s wild is, trust me, and you know, this, it, it’s amazing to me how many of my clients, their companies and their organizations are booming, but they feel bad about that. So they don’t talk about it. there are a lot of companies that are having their best years ever, but they don’t want to talk about it cause they don’t wanna make anybody else feel bad. So the media can definitely try to scare us and yes, there might be some challenging economic times coming, but there always is cuz that sells news and all of that, right? MM (00:53:23): So I always say, you know, we have to get ready for that. But I would say right now there is a wave of growth and awareness around coaching, which I find is exciting because there are a lot of coaches, but there are still billions of people. Now are all of those people hiring coaches? No, they’re not. But more I, more people are, and I would say one of the hardest things when I was first getting started was awareness of coaching at all. Mm-Hmm. , like, I had to spend a lot of time explaining what it is now. It’s much more known. What I would say is, so that’s causing a wave. But I also think one of the biggest waves to hit our industry is chat G P T. Right? Like being able to say, all right, how is AI gonna affect us? Mm-Hmm. MM (00:54:05): . And I think it’s causing another wave. And sometimes when two waves come, right? I’m not a surfer, but my son lives in Los Angeles, so I’m starting to understand. So surf culture a lot more. Two waves can look dangerous, but also two waves can be a really exciting time if you know how to ride them, right? Mm-Hmm. sometimes that allows you to ride more. And I think ai, when I first looked at it, I’m like, crap, that’s kind of scary. And I do think that some industries are going to be either massively changed or even eradicated. I think what AI’s gonna do in coaching is it’s gonna make, and already is making content creation easier. Mm-Hmm. , which for a lot of us, that’s the hardest part of this whole thing is creating content. AI is making it easier. You just can’t only use i ai. MM (00:54:51): So AI helps you to deal with one of the biggest challenges of any content creator. And that is the blank page. Yeah. There’s nothing worth stand, you know, sitting there looking at a blank page, but chat G B T or you know, AI allows you to get started, right? But you gotta put your voice in there, you gotta put your own spin on it. You can never take something right from AI and put it out there. You gotta still have your voice. I also think it will probably eradicate the need for the lowest tier coach, that coach that is just offering one off coaching. Because one of the biggest things, I’m a good coach, right? And I ask good questions, but I know a big reason of why I am so, so successful is accountability and relationship. I know a lot of my people at a computer could ask a really good question that gets them thinking, but when the rubber meets the road, the it, that’s not gonna be what moves the needle. MM (00:55:47): That’s right. I’ve had so many of my clients tell me, the only freaking, you know, reason why I got this thing done was I knew Mitch was gonna be asking me did I get it done? And they’re like, I’m so glad I did. But that was the whole reason Mitch was gonna ask me. Mitch was gonna ask me. Those people aren’t gonna be affected. Yeah. But they’re not gonna look for the ai AI coach, the person who’s just like barely looking for coach, not really interested in really investing in themselves at all. Sure. That person’s gonna use an AI-driven coaching system, which, you know, I know they’re coming all of that stuff. So it’s yet one more reason why it’s so important to really get your systems in place and differentiate yourself from just that person who’s just doing the one-off from time to time coaching when you have a true business. I actually believe that AI is gonna drive a deep, deep need for authentic connection. So I think coaching, I think the wave for coaching, I think it will be some weird waters as these two waves hit. But I think for those people who are ready and are riding on top, I actually think it’s gonna unleash some of our biggest opportunities and our biggest impact especially as we’re ready for them. AJV (00:57:00): Oh, I totally agree. In fact, one of my favorite ing quotes is there are no good writers, only good editors, MM (00:57:10): AJV (00:57:11): And MM (00:57:12): Ai. It’s very true. Ai AJV (00:57:13): I love that, is allowing content creators to be editors. Yes. Right. If you’re struggling without writer’s block or Yep. Trying to get that, it’s like, that is a great way to use, you know, chat g p t it’s like, be a great editor, right? Yep. Put your That’s MM (00:57:29): Exactly right. And you gotta get your voice in there because I do think, I mean, it is amazing what it can do. Like the prompts that you can put in there, it’s like, woo, it could be get pretty close to your voice, but people will know. Like that’s gonna be one of the things that’s always gonna differentiate you is what is your voice. And some of you might be like, well, I don’t know what my voice is. I’m just getting started. The only way you find your voice is continually putting it out there and you’ll find it, but don’t let the AI do it for you. Find that, get started with ai, you know, use it, that’s great, but find your voice as you use it. Don’t let it replace you. AJV (00:58:05): Not to mention just on this topic, there’s gonna be a whole new opportunity for coaches to coach people on how to use ai. MM (00:58:11): That’s some of the highest paid coaches right now is people who are navigating AI and helping organizations. I mean, it’s AJV (00:58:18): Great. There’s always going to be the need for someone to educate another human being. Yep. Because at the end of the day, it’s like, this is, you know, one of the things that we preach at Brain Builders Group is that pre ai, pre-chat, chat, G P t, people do not pay for information. They pay for organization and application. Yep. Right. And those are the two things that are always going to be available to coaches to do so. Yep. All right. We are now officially eight minutes over. I will stop, look at us clock now. Geez. MM (00:58:49): Throw the clock right out window AJV (00:58:51): And before we go, yeah, this has been such an awesome conversation. But Mitch has put something really cool together for everyone who is listening. So we started off the out this call saying, you know, how do you know if you would be a good coach? Like, how do you know? And so if you really wanna know the answers to those questions actually check out Mitch matthews.com/vaden, our last name v a d e n, so mitch matthews.com/vaden and he’s put together a whole little set of things to help you know if you would be a good coach. And then also just poke around mitch matthews.com, get connected to his podcast, get connected to him on social media, do all the things. And Mitch, thank you so much. This has been so helpful. So many good nuggets, and also just really fun. So thanks for being on the show. MM (00:59:46): I love it. You are such an amazing host and the time has flown by, so thank you so much. It’s been an honor and an absolute blast. So thank you for doing what you guys do. AJV (00:59:54): We love it. We love having these conversations and we love having these conversations that help all of you guys who are listening. So don’t be a stranger and come back. We’ll see you next time on the influential personal brand.

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