Ep 06: What it Takes to Build a Personal Brand with Jay Baer

On today’s episode, we are joined by friend and digital marketing pioneer, Jay Baer to talk about the reality of building a personal brand. Jay is a seventh-generation entrepreneur and also the author of six New York Times best-selling books. He is also the founder of Convince and Convert Consulting, a digital marketing advisory from that helps some of the most iconic brands such as the United Nations, Hilton, and Nike, gain and keep more customers. Along with this, he is a customer service and customer experience expert and a Hall of Fame Speaker.

In today’s world, where we are accustomed to instant gratification, people often do not realize the enormous effort it takes to build a personal brand. The behind the scenes day in, day out ‘slog’ requires consistency and a great deal of patience in order to create an enduring brand. In the digital landscape, where information overload is the norm, creating content that makes your audience better and benefits them is your ticket to the top.

Jay shares some of his tremendous knowledge on how to add this value for your audience, as well as some insights into the kind of customers you want to have and what the future of digital marketing looks like, among many things. For all this incredible insight, join us today! 

WATCH THE INTERVIEW

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE BELOW

KEY POINTS FROM THIS EPISODE

  • Jay’s background before he started Convince and Convert Consulting.
  • The biggest problem in personal branding is lack of patience, not lack of clarity.
  • Audiences want to learn from you every day, so consistency pays off.
  • You want to be in the rhythm of your audience’s life and part of their everyday experience.
  • You cannot only have the ‘tent-pole show’, you have to have other content as well.
  • Adding value is teaching the audience more about themselves.
  • If you give your audience relevant content, they will create time to consume it.
  • You should never be afraid of oversharing with your audience.
  • The kind of customers you want to have.
  • Recognizing that people are more interested in learning to apply what they have learned.
  • Some of the things that dictate content production value.
  • How Jay manages all of the platforms and his engagements on them.
  • If you add something new, you should remove something else.
  • You have to decide on a platform for your main ’tent-pole show’.
  • YouTube is a more self-contained universe than other platforms.
  • An explanation of dark social and why it is the future of digital marketing.
  • What the trends in voice-activated technology mean for personal branding.
  • What Jay attributes to his staying power in a crowded market.
  • Why everybody is your competition and nobody is your competition.

TWEETABLE MOMENTS

“A brand is built on perspiration, not inspiration.” — @jaybaer  [0:04:26]

“Time is the only inelastic resource. Everything else you can do more. You can push harder, you can borrow money, you can do lots of different things, but you can’t create time.” — @jaybaer   [0:13:17]

 “Take everything you know and give it away one bite at a time. For free. You give away information snacks to sell knowledge meals. What you sell is the assembly instructions.” — @jaybaer   [0:17:22]

“I’ve been in startup mode for thirty years. I think that certainly helps. There’s a level of urgency and a corresponding lack of satisfaction that continues to drive me and my team.” — @jaybaer   [0:36:42]

ABOUT JAY BAER

The world’s most inspirational marketing, customer experience, and customer service keynote speaker Jay is a Hall of Fame speaker and emcee. New York Times best-selling author of six books. An Internet pioneer. A 7th-generation entrepreneur. And the founder of five, multi-million dollar companies.

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Jay Baer — https://www.jaybaer.com/

Jay Baer on Twitter — https://twitter.com/jaybaer

Convince and Convert Consulting — https://www.convinceandconvert.com/

Talk Triggers website — https://www.talktriggers.com/

Talk Triggers on Amazon — https://amzn.to/3acxhks

Youtilityhttps://amzn.to/2XoseYc

Social Pros Podcast — https://www.convinceandconvert.com/podcasts/shows/social-pros-podcast/

Hug Your Haters https://amzn.to/3jPnXsa

Brand Builders Group Consultation Call — freecall.brandbuildersgroup.com

Take The Stairs —https://amzn.to/2ZAJNUS

Rory Vaden — https://www.roryvaden.com/

Rory Vaden on Twitter — https://twitter.com/roryvaden

There are people that I bring you that are experts. There are people that I bring you that are clients. There’s people that have read you, that are friends. Jay is first and foremost a friend. He is first and next and an expert that I learned from. Truly one of the people I think I’ve learned the most from in this space of all things. Digital Marketing, digital reputation personal branding. He is the New York Times best selling author of six books. He is one of the original Internet pioneers. He’s owned and sold several agencies. He’s a hall of fame speaker and MC. He speaks all around the globe. His new book taught his newest book talk triggers is all about kind of like word of mouth marketing. He’s been doing kind of innovating the space of customer experience and customer service in a digital world. But the book that he originally wrote that changed my life, which I absolutely love, we give it to all of our clients that come to strategy days with us as utility. While utility, why smart marketing is about help, not hype, which was a number three New York Times bestseller. I don’t know what else to say. He gets 250,000 unique visitors every month. He’s got millions of people following him online and email and he’s just freaking awesome dude and a great dresser. So welcome to the show Jay bear. Thank you very much Rory for that kind introduction to kind a at least 51% of those things are true. Which is a true enough for this summit. Yeah, exactly. So I don’t, I, I was trying to think about what do I really want to know from Jay Baer? What do I think people want to know? And, and I think that saying that I wanna dive in the most, there’s a lot of directions we could go, but I think the thing that a lot of our clients struggle with is once they get clear on their positioning and their messaging in is then the content management, just like the muscle, the day in and day out grind of like, how do you make it all work? How do you pull it together? Like for you personally, you’ve been doing this for years, so would love to hear that. And there’s a, you know, there’s a great quote that you told me about being a media company one time. And you know, I shared a lot when I go out and speak. So I’d love, I’d love if you could talk about the mindset of a media company and then let’s just kinda dive in there. Yeah, I think I’m fortunate in some ways in that I worked in, in media before I got into digital in this regard, right? So I worked in television, I worked in radio, I worked in newspaper, I worked in magazines. And so thinking like a media company sort of came, came naturally to me. And when I started this from convince and convert 11 years ago I started a blog and I’d never had a blog before per se. I’d written a lot of magazine articles and columns and things like that, but, but I literally had zero followers and zero readers. And then I convinced my mom to start reading. And that was a big wins. Then I had one, everybody starts with their mom, right? And then after that, hopefully you grow from there. And with Rory student Legit, you can do that. But I said, look, you know, I have some ideas and if I just, if I just keep producing content that people find value in, eventually good things will happen. And I still, after all these years, I still really believe in that. I think the biggest problem with personal branding is not lack of brand clarity, although that’s certainly an issue. I think the biggest problem is lack of patience. You know, especially in the world that we live in today, people feel like, well, hey, you know, I’ve got this, you know, swell Instagram account and I’ve been killing it on Instagram for four months. How come I’m not a millionaire yet? You know? And, and you know, it’s, it’s every day, every day you gotta keep showing up, you gotta keep showing up. You know, a brand is built on perspiration, not inspiration. And every time I hear people say, well, I didn’t get a chance to do the podcast, or I didn’t get a chance to write the blog post, or I didn’t get a chance to do whatever other, the video, whatever content is in their wheelhouse cause I just wasn’t feeling it today. That’s when I know they’re not gonna make it. I can tell you right now, they’re not gonna make it. Because if you ever say you just don’t feel like it today, that means that you were driven by inspiration and your audience doesn’t care if you’re tired, your audience doesn’t care if you’re hung over. Your audience doesn’t care if you’re sad or busy or distracted or anything else is going on. What they want is to learn from you each and every day. And so I’m actually kind of bad at brand consistency. Like I need this somewhat as much as anybody. I don’t have a very clear sense of exactly how I fit in the marketplace, partially because I get new ideas a lot and I get bored of old ideas. But the one thing I am good at is delivering value every day. And, and I feel like, look, I’m not in a hurry. And as long as you just keep building one brick on top of another, eventually you got stairs and then a wall and a [inaudible]. That’s it man. You just gotta play the long game. So why, let’s talk a, I want to talk about value. I mean that, that’s something that you said that really stuck with me, which I think is a huge part. You know, it’ll be interesting when we get a chance to do a deep dive on what the Jay Baer brand is all about, but I think it will be somehow probably connected to that last sentence that you said that you know, you know David Newman, our mutual friend, David Newman, terrific speaker and speaker trainer. He sent me a note just today and he said, I really enjoyed your session at the National Speakers Association. He said, one thing that I tell everybody is that you’re the king of value over delivery. And I thought kind of like that kind of like that give them, give them more than they expect. Right. And you know, it’s sort of like five guys when you go to five guys and you get French fries and they give you like 400 pounds on the French fries and that’s a small order. You’re like, damn man, that’s a lot of French fries. And that becomes their talk to her. It’s actually one of the case studies in my book is that, and when I, I interviewed their CEO and he said, if people, I love this, he said, if people are not complaining about too many French fries that I’ve not given them enough French fries. Oh Wow. And that’s kind of how I feel about content, right? If people aren’t like, like the other day, Jason Hewlett, there’s another hall of fame speaker, tremendously talented visual said to me, I don’t know if I’ve ever gotten so many emails from one person, but I read every email you sent. And I thought, well, there you go. Right? If you just keep delivering value, you and you over deliver value, then then you got some set of very sophisticated personal brand. But I guess it works Well. I want to talk about what you mean by value because I think a lot of people don’t understand what that means exactly. But what I want to first ask you about why every day like why not? I mean an Instagram feed, it’s always there, right? Like a blog. Like your archive is always there. Your Youtube Channel, your podcast, right? They’re all archive. Like Why the every day part of it. Yeah. And I, I want to make sure we’re clear on this. I don’t, I don’t blog every day, but I do something every day for sure. And my take is that the atomic halflife of a piece of content, especially digitally continues to shrink. So yes, of course you could go back and look at blog posts from two, three, four, 10 years ago, but that is mathematically rare, right? Typically what happens is people find the newest thing you’ve done, they consume with that thing. And they might go back and look at the two or three more recent things, but generally speaking, you have to continue to, to kind of feed the top of the funnel. And then some of those people will fall out the bottom as, as subscribers. But I think we’re, we’re folks get in trouble as they feel like, all right, I have quote unquote made it. So now I can take my foot off the gas and, and only create things on, on you know, every once in a while basis. And there’s a lot of other people out. I don’t care what your personal brand is. There are a ton of people that want to do or already do exactly what you do and more of them are coming. And if they are publishing something every day and you’re publishing something once a week, eventually that’s not gonna work for you. Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t remember if you said this or you inspired it, but it’s always sort of set with me where it’s just like I want to become a part of their either daily routine or their weekly routine or the rhythm. Just like the morning news or the evening news. I think you were talking about being a media company. It’s like the news comes on every night at nine Whether there’s news or not, right? Yeah. They’re not like no show today. They’ll make something up. Right though. Yeah. And we want to kind of do the same thing, right? We want, we want to be in there the rhythm of their life. Yeah. You wanna you want the audience to be able to, to set their watch. Right. And tune in. Which is why so much of the work we do with clients and and a lot of the things we do for my personal brand or are evolved around shows. So you’ve heard me talk about being a media company. Where we’ve evolved that to is that there are three types of shows in your content strategy, right? You have binge worthy shows, which is a higher production value program where people can sit down and watch, you know, 11 episodes of the, of the Youtube show or we’re listened to five podcasts in a row. It is, it is a binge worthy production. Then you have what we call onetime shows or special shows, which are typically deeper kind of heavy thought leadership programs that you’re not going to do on a regular regular basis that maybe monthly or every other month. So we do a lot of research reports at convince and convert. And those are sort of our one-time shows. We just did one on the 50 best hospitals in America and ranked all of their social media programs and one through 50. Right? That’s a big, deep 30 page report that that’s kind of a one time show. Think of it like the Emmys or the Oscars or the SBS in, in a television world. And then you have your regularly scheduled programming, regularly scheduled programming or everything else that happens on your TV network, you know, between 8:00 AM and, and and midnight. That may not be like a hit necessarily, or it may not be an award show, but it’s still on the air, right? So that’s your blog, that’s your Instagram stories, that’s your Instagram videos, that’s, you know, maybe some other little short form things that you’re doing. It’s all the other things, the ligaments, if you will, that your audience can kind of tune into and, and, and, and have an affinity for. So if you think about like a and D, right? So a and needs a television network. There are number one show far and away is walking dead, right? Walking dead is, is there binge worthy show, right? That that is, that’s the tent pole. Okay. So as a personal brand, you have to have a tent pole. Maybe it’s your podcast and your video show, but that’s the thing. That’s the hill that you will die on, right? That is your binge worthy show that is walking dead. Then you’ve got your one-time shows, which a and d might be you know, special event or award show, then you’ve got the regularly scheduled programming. So Rory a and D is on 24 hours a day. Okay? The, the network is on 24 hours a day. Name another show on A&E. Right? Other than walking dead, 23 hours a day is another show, right? They’re still on the air and they’re still selling ads. Right? So you’ve got to have some other stuff. And sometimes I find that what’s happening today in personal branding is that people have the tent pole, right? They’ve got like the signature podcast, the signature video show, but then they don’t have the regularly scheduled programming. And the reality is the way algorithms work today, you can’t live on the tent pole alone, right? You can’t. And so you’ve got to have the other stuff as well. Interesting. That’s a really interesting way of thinking about it. Just again, like a media company the way that they would approach it. And I think that’s kind of what’s happening, right? Like now there’s so much power moving away from companies and organizations and media like enterprises to the individual and individuals are stealing attention and so individuals are having to like think in that way and produce content and operate and all that. I want to talk about, I want to go back to the value thing now for a second thing. What does that mean to deliver value? Because, cause here’s what I see a lot, right? I see a lot of pictures of myself, like personal branding. I think a lot of people think personal branding is pictures of yourself, right? Right. I think no matter what your personal brand is, there’s probably a place for that. Of course, I you know, on some level and you know, different things like it’s different if you’re a fitness model or you’re, you know, coaching CEOs or whatever. But like, what does value really mean? What does that, how does it, what does it look like? Here’s where I think about at Rory. Everything you can create, everything you create can either teach the audience about you or teach the audience about them. And I feel like if you can teach them about them over and over and over and over of eventually that is worth their time because that’s all that’s all value means, right? Like here, here’s the, here’s the thing. Relevancy is the killer app right now. Relevancy is the only thing that matters. That’s all that matters. Even Instagram models have to be relevant in the way that they are relevant, right? It has to because time is the only inelastic resource, okay? Everything else you can do more, right? You can push harder or you can, you can borrow money, you can do it or you can do lots of different things, but you can’t create a time. However, relevancy actually create. Simon, here’s what I mean by that. If you, if you create content that doesn’t actually help your audience, doesn’t make them better in any way, it just is, look at me, look at me, look at me. Eventually your audience will tune away and just stop participating in that. And what happens, and I see this all the time, is that people think, well, you know what? They’re not, they’re not tuning in anymore because they don’t have time. They’re too busy. The audience is too busy to, to engage with me. And that’s not true. It’s not about being too busy. It’s that what you have given them does not actually benefit them. And I know this is true because when you give somebody something that really generally helps them, again going back to the utility concept, some that actually improves their life in some way, the time necessary to consume that content is magically created. Right? Somehow they find the time, if it makes them better. So where I am actually terrible at personal branding is I’m actually, I don’t do enough of the other side. Like I don’t, I don’t do enough of the, let me tell you about me. I actually, I actually take that equation and probably swing the pendulum too far just around value, value, value. But, but I feel like if I’m going to pick one, I’d rather the one that helps them as opposed to the one that pats myself on the back. Yeah. And that I think that that was the part is such a simple concept, but I think that’s the part that utility just like nailed like square dead on forever, which was like the whole like marketing is is just being useful. It’s like by teaching them, you are selling to them like you are marketing themselves. They’ll sell themselves, right? If you just, if you just answer every question and help people with what they want, that’s why that sort of ask me anything is one of the greatest marketing opportunities of our age, right? Just turn on Instagram, TV, turn on Youtube, live turnout of linkedin live. You have access. I’m just answering questions and just do that all the time and eventually your people will sell themselves. Should I shift to, do people need to be worried about giving away too much? Like oh no, they should not be worried about that and I’m glad you asked it because I get asked this question almost every day and here’s why. And then look, I get it. Like if you’ve, if you’re a thought leader and you’ve got some, some magic potion, you’re like, hey, I don’t want to give away the secret sauce. I’ve got a couple of couple of pieces of information for you. One, your sauce isn’t secret. I’ve been doing this a long time. I’ve been in this business for 30 years. I’m disproportionately youthful looking. It’s the soft lights. And I will tell you this, that almost never is the sauce that actually secret. You just don’t know that everybody else is saying the exact same thing that you’re saying. So, so a, you probably don’t really have, you know, something that’s differentiated that much. And B, more importantly, a list of ingredients doesn’t make somebody a chef. And one of the most important lessons I’ve ever learned in business is this. If you have a potential customer for whatever it is that you do, information products, consulting, actual products, it doesn’t matter if you’ve got a potential customer who is thinking to themselves self. I could either buy this thing from world renowned expert and Nice Guy, Rory Vaden, or I could listen to [inaudible] podcasts, go to his summit, read his blogs and that I could figure out how to do it myself. That’s not a customer you want because if they think it’s that easy, if they think a list of ingredients makes them a chef, they will never be entirely happy. They will always be looking for a way to get out of whatever relationship you have brought them into. I don’t want those customers. Their money is no good to me. I want people who want to be educated and inspired by what I give away and then say, wow, that’s great to take it to the next level. I actually need Jay. What I always tell people is the goal for me in personal branding is so simple, Rory. It’s take everything you know and I mean everything And give it away. One bite at a time for free, for free. You give away information, snacks to sell knowledge, meals. What you sell is the assembly instructions, right? You’re giving away, you’re giving away the pieces. Like think about Ikea furniture, right. Okay. Ikea could literally give away all the pieces and sell the instruction. That’s a good example. You could just, they could just, they could say come over and get whatever, get whatever shelves you want for free. We’re going to sell you the assembly instructions. That’s the business they should be and it would take no storage. Huh. Well Gosh that’s such a, and that Ikea is such a great example cause they have so many parts but the reality is anybody who teaches something, there’s so many parts. One of the things we started saying is people don’t pay for information. They pay for application. There’s information everywhere. It’s, it’s, it’s the application part that’s valuable and no matter how much you teach on your podcast or your youtube show or on your Instagram live, like they still are going to need that assistance. And what I’ve never really thought about is what you just said is the person who doesn’t believe they do. You don’t want that person anyways. That’s right. Not a valuable customer. It’s never going to be a good, it’s never going to be a profitable relationship and it’s never going to be a frictionless relationship. Well, there is one, there’s one exception to that, which is I think you used this example years ago, I heard you two in a, a keynote. And you were talking about like home depot, you know, using all these videos like the DIY videos. Yeah. But then what happens is the moment that person tries to do it that, that it’s a good thing when they try to do it themselves cause they stumble about two steps in and go, what the hell? Like I need a buddy. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, look, you can, you could go to youtube and learn how to cut your own hair too. And I guess what you’re going to do that once, right? That’s going to mean, and then you’ll know, and then you’re going to have massive loyalty with your salon person. Right? Like that’s just the way it is. Yeah, that’s a great example. That’s a, that that is a great real life example. And I think, I think people do get so, so scared of that. All right, so couple other things related to this. What about production value? Like how much it’s interesting as it’s like, you know, I, I see back and forth like, no, I just like, you know, no makeup, turn on the thing in the morning and go live. That’s what people want to see. But then, you know, I see Jay Shetty like producing these fricking amazing video. I mean, they’re like little freaking movies and they’re amazing and gone. Okay, well that, that one seems like a lot of work. You know, so what is it both? Is it [inaudible] like what It’s circumstantial. So a couple things. One, production value is to some degree dictated by platform, right? So there are certain places where production value’s gonna matter more than others, but I think even more so production value is dictated by the preexisting relationship you have with that audience. So when when people just turn on the camera and go live and they’re sort of being real and I’m throwing up my air quotes here, they can do that because their audience is already part of their tribe and so the audience wants to have that, that that pho intimacy with, with the thought leader, that intimacy that that is, that is sort of conveyed by, look, I trust you guys so much and we’re actual friends to the degree that I don’t even need to put on makeup. That only works if you’re low funnel, right? You’re already a customer essentially. If you’re going to just try and create customers and try and kind of get on people’s radar, you’re probably not going to do it. Just lets go live, turn on the camera because then people are like, who is this person? Why can’t they shower? Whereas, right, if you’re trying to sort of cast a broader net top of the funnel production value matters. Now all of that being said, as more and more people become more and more comfortable and confident, frankly with creation of digital content and all forms and facets, audio, video, voice activated content on Amazon, Alexa, obviously blogging, Instagram, Pinterest, the whole jam, right? As, as the sort of net average level of comfort goes up, production value will also go up. So if you’re not on a regular basis, and I wouldn’t, if I was me, I would look at it quarterly or at least twice a year. If you’re not looking deeply into your own work and saying, how can we increase production value without messing up sort of our overall unit economics, then then you’re probably getting left behind. So it’s, it’s so it’s, you know, it’s, it’s like there’s the content value, but then there’s the production value and you’re, and you’re, it’s like the content value and you’re pushing to be more useful. The production value [inaudible] Pushing to be like more in entertaining or engaging. Yeah. I mean, look, w when, when there were 50,000 podcasts, you can just do a show, right? And it’d probably find an audience. Now there’s 750,000 podcasts and a lot of very professional audio talent and companies are doing amazing things. So, you know, it’s not as easy to just turn on the microphone and succeed and nor should it be. Yeah. Well, it’s again, it’s like think like a media company, right? Like it’s, it’s Yeah, you know, you, you can’t get, you can’t live by your cable access TV show for, you know, looking at, you know, you can’t be Wayne’s world forever at some point. Like, Hey, let’s get a real camera. Yeah. so how do you manage it? All right. So let’s, let’s come back to that kind of a thing, right? So you go, okay, well freaking, Jeez, it’s Instagram and it’s not just Instagram. Now. It’s Instagram, your feed and your lives and your TV and, and, and you know, so now you’ve got all these mediums and you got multiple mediums inside of each medium and then have your own crap, your own website, your own blog and your podcast. Like what, what is the you know, like how do you personally think about it? Like the mindset of it and then also like some of the tactics may be related. Yeah. So, so we think about as I mentioned it from a, from a show’s standpoint, right? So what are the tent pole productions? I have a podcast called social pros, which is one of our biggest productions. I, I, until recently had a video podcast sort of a youtube show called talk triggers. And, and so those are kind of the tent poles. And so each time we create an episode, we do all the things that, that you teach new, you know, how to do Rory, where we down sample all the content, right? So it starts as a video and from a video goes to a podcast from a podcast, it goes to a transcript from a transcript, goes for blog posts, and then we create, you know, five or six or eight or 15 million teasers for each platform for stories and regular Instagram and Twitter and Linkedin, et cetera. Now we’ve got an amazing production team on the back end that that helps me do all those things. So my responsibility is to, is to create things that people believe are beneficial or somehow helps them live their life better or build their company and then we’ll execute all the different things on the backend. But you know, it is tricky, especially because we’ve been doing this now for a long time to to not only keep doing the new thing, right? So what’s the Ige TV strategy, but to also maintain success with the old things because we have a, a large and and successful blog, right? So, even though fewer people read blogs then used to, in a lot of ways we feel like we have to still kind of continue to do that because we have such a presence there. So that does become a real challenge for us. What I always tell clients is, hey, if you’re going to add something new, you got to get rid of something, right. You, because again, time is inelastic. You can’t just make yourself spend more time because then you’re robbing from something else. But I don’t take that advice my own company if we just keep adding, keep adding more things. Unfortunately. so, so this is sort of the do as I say, not as I do portion of the program. Yeah. Well I mean that’s an interesting question, right? As this is like, do you go all in on one and like one medium? Just all in like, this is my place. This is my thing. If you want me to go here or do you go lots of fishing poles in the water and let’s go, let’s go fishing every, you know, social media outlet that is everywhere. I think the, I think the answer is in between Rory. I think you, you want your tent pole show to, to be resident somewhere, right? So it’s a youtube show, it’s a podcast, it’s a linkedin video show. Oh. Like it has to have a home. And that’s where that kind of, the content is designed for that home. That’s where it lives, that’s the first place it’s posted et cetera. But, but then you can use other platforms, Instagram, what have you to, to either tease it over at the home or, or, or Sorta do greatest hits. So like we, my podcast, we do about 45 minute episodes. The, the, the show is audio, but we use zoom and we record the video because our team then takes each episode and creates a five minute video highlight reel of the sort of most interesting things that were said in the podcast. And that goes on Youtube. Then we create a two minute video, right? And put that on Linkedin and Facebook. Right? And we have a one minute video that goes on Instagram, right? It’s not a video show, right? It’s an audio podcast, but where we’re trying to fit the individual pieces into the, the, the places where they make the most sense, right? I think we’re where people get messed up. It’s like, okay, we’ve got this one thing, now let’s post this one asset in eight places that doesn’t work. Right. It just doesn’t work. People don’t want the exact same graphic, the exact same thing in every social network because people have expectations for what an Instagram story feels like versus a tweet. And you can’t just copy and paste across the board. [Inaudible] Well, and then, yeah, that’s just such a, such a puzzle to like be in all those places all at once. Like you said, you’ve got to have a team. Like you have to have a team. There’s like, there’s no way to be really doing this. Yeah. I mean it’s just, you just, this takes time, right? And, and that’s why you need to be really serious about your tent pole show. Like whatever is your main production. Like you’ve got to realize to do that well and to grow an audience, you’re gonna have to spend like real time. And it’s not even the time making the thing, it’s the postproduction time downsampling it and put it in all these places so that it has exposure in a lot of different social networks. That’s, that’s the trick. I mean, to some degree, I think youtube has have it easiest because you tubers don’t necessarily have to promote in other platforms, right? If you, if you have a successful youtube channel, typically because of the way subscribers work, you don’t necessarily have to be promoting your youtube channel on Facebook. Now, as a matter of course, a lot of people do, but, but you can kind of live in that youtube environment. I’m not certain that’s what I would want to do. But you can that’s, that’s probably an advantage in some ways. So you’re just saying, because, because youtube so actively pushes the content out to the subscriber base, Right? Yeah. And it’s kind of a self contained universe, right? I mean, you, people go to youtube for a reason. People, you know, which is I want to go find this particular piece of content or I need to learn how to cut my own hair or what have you. People go to Facebook to waste time, right? They go to, they go to youtube cause they need something. Right. It’s a much different psychology. And so if you’ve got, if you’re successful in youtube, people are coming to you. Right? Facebook’s a little different. Okay. So what’s next? Like what like when you look ahead and you go, I think one of the things that I love, you guys do so much research, you put out amazing stuff. For those of you watching j primarily in his team primarily work in like kind of the corporate market. They’re helping big companies like create their, their social and word of mouth and customer experience strategy used in digital. So they’re very sophisticated, but like you’re always got your pulse on, you know, what’s common. So like if I, if I want to write, if I’m looking for the next wave that I can sort of like ride what, what should I be looking at? A, what we call dark social. So dark social is also sometimes called conversational marketing. All the different ways to interact with your audience that, that I still use a lot of the same technologies that we’re familiar with but bought our private instead of public. So things like Facebook Messenger Bots and, and what’s app and all, all of those kinds of technologies. Even even even group texting and eye mdms. Yeah. Instagram, dms, like all of those kinds of things where you’re saying, look, we’re going to take a, a smaller group maybe of of a a few hundred or a few dozen and, and sort of say, look, you’re in my, in Rory Super Special Club and an already super, super special club. We send you something really amazing every day on Facebook messenger or on whatsapp or what have you. That that kind of a messaging application driven interaction is going to be huge in the next year. Ken, is that odd? Is that automated? Like the kind of chat bot sort of stuff like messenger bots? Is that right? Can Be can be you know, or can just be a different way to distribute and interact with, with your audience. But it sort of the like the behind the scenes interaction. That’s it. That’s it. That’s cool. And Am already seeing a huge shift in on the brand side from a customer service perspective. So as you know, I wrote a book called Hug your haters, which is all about social media, customer service and customer service on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram, et cetera. What we’re seeing now already is, is a reduction in people using those platforms and instead using dms and Messenger and whatsapp and and those kinds of things, which, which changes a little bit the nature of customer service cause it’s no longer in public. Now it’s private, right? Same, same platforms and a lot of ways. But in private. So it’s a, it’s a big, big shift in and you’re gonna see it really ramp up probably by the end of 2019, as Facebook has announced that they’re going to try and combine whatsapp and messenger and Instagram dms into one messaging platform. That’s, that’s their stated goal. In which case we’re going to see some real changes in a lot of the things that we’re talking about here in this amazing summit. So one other, one other kind of last technical thing. What about the voice activated? Like, I feel like there’s a lot of buzz going around around like the Alexa and like, you know, all that sort of stuff. What does that mean for a personal brand? Like what do I have to do to get my content to be accessible there? Or like w you know, like I, there’s a disconnect for me in my head. We in like my Google Home Bot and what that has to do with me getting my personal content out. Yeah. It’s actually, I think it’s a opportunity for, for personal brands and thought leaders. I’m working on one right now where where you take your content could be a podcast. So obviously it’s a voice activated device. So audio content works amazingly well. It could be a podcast, could be a blog, could be some combination there in a, and, and it’s, you know, Alexa, ask Rory, what’s new this week? And you get Rory giving you the weekly tip for, for you know, improving your personal brand. I mean, it, it’s, it’s not terribly difficult to program. It works really well. And for people who say, hey, it’s just kind of a small niche thing. I’ll give you a stat today as we’re having this conversation, there are 126 million smart speaker devices in the United States owned, right? So that’s Amazon, Alexa, Google home, et cetera. 126 million. Now that’s a big number, but it, it’s hard to do big numbers without context story. So I just want to let you know, there’s 90 million dogs. Wow. Crazy. Nobody ever says, Hey, that dog thing is a niche, right? So, so there’s a lot of speakers out there already, you know, and it’s just going to go up and up and up because it’s such an effective platform. You have to actually upload your audio content somewhere or can you voice to do it? Yeah. Well so, so think of think of a voice application or a skills, what they call it, an Amazon. I think of a skill as a, like a, like a website, a CMS content management system, right? Where where you have to upload something and, and it can be very easy if you just take a blog post and upload it to your Amazon skill and say, ask where, what’s new? Here’s what Rory says. And you get the robotic voice right. And they will literally read the content to you. He will read the blog post or you can take an MP, three file of you using rorys voice reading that blog post or some other tip and then uploaded the MP three file. And then when you say ask for where I went to new, you actually get your voice, which is pretty cool cause at that point it’s almost like podcast on demand and some ways. So, but so, so there’s actually like, you actually have to go to Amazon and take an MP3 of like your podcasts and uploaded. It won’t just pull it from like the iTunes directory or something. You can, you can set it up as you can do that. You could set it up as a feed, right. And say, okay, each each period of time grab the new file and you could build it like that. Yeah. But you have to go set that up somewhere in Amazon. Yeah. You have to, you have to build the skill, right. You know, you have to actually create it. So we build a mobile app now it’s not terribly difficult, frankly. Especially for something like that, which is ask Rory what’s new? But you do have to build it. You can’t just like press button and it’s, it’s live. We’re not quite, not quite there yet. Okay. So, so that’s Amazon and then also for Google, I guess, are those, those are the big ones. Yeah. Yeah. Amazon and Google the biggest, Amazon’s about three quarters of the market. Google is about a quarter give or take right now. Which is interesting. The, the new trend also is that more and more of these devices have screens. So they look like a iPad minis. Right. And, and that’s interesting too because now you can do more with video, you can do more with photography. So, so it may not just be voice, it may be voice plus some other stuff. And so a whole new way to interact with your audience, which is pretty cool. Yeah, man. Every time I talked to you, like my mind is, is blown and, and there’s also a part that makes me feel like I’m so far behind, even though in reality I know, like even having this conversation means we’re pretty far ahead of, you know, the average group out there. But That’s, that’s the curse of doing all big corporate work, right? Like, you know, the challenge for me as a business owner is I’ve got a whole team of incredibly brilliant strategists who are far smarter than I am at these kinds of things. But our clients are super smart too, right? So, Okay, We have [Inaudible] Can they get like smarter and smarter cause our clients keep getting smarter and smarter. Right. So it’s a, it’s the, it’s the challenge for all people in that sort of custom high dollar big company consulting space. Right? It’s you can’t ever sit still. Yeah. Well I follow convincing, convert the blog and I follow you and, and you know, I agree that it’s like there’s so much content and even though it’s not targeted to our personal brands, it’s like social pros, podcast and stuff. It’s like if you’re going to think like a media company, it helps to like learn from the people that big companies are learning from which is used. So where do you want people to go if they want to kind of follow your journey and plug in with you know, what you have going on. Yeah. Thanks Jay. Baer.Com is my personal brand site, Jay Baer, B e r.com. And then as already mentioned, convince and convert.com is our main site. Convince and convert. We’ve got 5,500 free articles at this point. Thousands of podcast episodes, videos, all kinds of free guides, downloads. You can you can lease a master’s degree, at least a master’s degree for sure. Yeah. Last little thing, just more of a curiosity question. You know, there’s a lot of people at t social media, like there’s a lot of people that teach marketing, you know, on and on and on. Somehow you have stayed in the game a long time and been at the top like just even your personal brand and the people followed you. Why do you think that is? Like, what do you think it is that has created the staying power of, of the Jay Baer personal brand in, in a, you know, a fairly crowded market? Well, yeah, it’s, it’s funny you ask that because I’ve been thinking about that a little bit myself recently. Some of the people who were in social ended integer beyond your good looks and your crazy suits. Of course. Maybe it’s the suits. You know, when a lot of people who started when I started kind of my contemporaries who were just kind of coming into social digital when I started are out now or, or, or largely out, right? They took a job, you know, corporate or they started to do something different or they just, you know, they just don’t, they’re not, not there anymore. There’s only not, I’m kind of doing it full speed and I don’t know what the answer is. I don’t know if it’s, I mean, partially because I just won’t rest. Right. Like, like, you know, I, even though we’ve had some measure of success in this business, I treat every day as if we haven’t. And especially in a field as competitive as mine. I think you almost have to have that mentality. So, you know, I’ve been in startup mode for 30 years and I think that certainly helps. There’s a level of urgency and a corresponding lack of satisfaction that I think continues to drive me and my team. Also I have a team, like a lot of people who, who started when I started were trying to do it themselves with themselves plus a VA. And as we’ve talked about, it’s, it’s really difficult to continue to scale that way, right? You, you’re, you’re gonna burn yourself out, right? We have 15 people now plus another 10 or 15 kind of in our, in our orbit. So we’ve got like a factory, right? And, and that makes it a lot easier to sort of be more places. And then I would say the third thing, Rory, is that we’ve been so fortunate to have so many amazing partners and sponsors and companies that have partially underwritten my content or, or you know, things that we’ve done together, joint ventures that I don’t have to carry all of the water myself. Right? So, you know, if we do something with Oracle or Cisco or salesforce or some of these other big software companies, and I’m going to do a Webinar with them, well, they have a huge audience, right? So, so their audience has been introduced to me as part of our programming and in our, in our partnerships. And that really helps also. And I think that’s something that frankly, everybody who’s interested in building a better personal brand needs to think about. I’ll tell you two things that are true. One, everybody in the world is your competition because attention is the only commodity. Everybody has competition. Rory is your competition. I am your competition. On the other hand, nobody is your competition. All your competitors are, are just people you haven’t done a partnership with yet. And if you actually live by that philosophy, if you say, well, who can I partner with today? Not just at a transactional affiliate relationship, but a true partnership and you think about who can I partner with next over time? That’s going to do you wonders in the sort of lifespan. If you’re a personal brand while well, that is a punctuation exclamation point. I think to end this on, I think j it’s, you are so consistent to delivering value every single day and you’ve done that for so long. You’ve certainly done that today. And over-delivered. And we just, we love you, man. We appreciate you. I’m so grateful for you. I feel just lucky to have you as like a friend and a mentor and I’m, I’m honored you took the time here and I’m, I’m excited to hopefully expose a whole bunch of people from the personal brand world. Let’s do it. It’s awesome. So thanks brother. Thanks. I appreciate your time. Yeah.

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