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the podcast recap episode with aj & rory vaden

Ep 231: Playing the Long Game with Dorie Clark | Recap Episode

Listen to the episode below

In this week’s special recap edition, we revisit our conversation with Dorie Clark, a consultant and sought-after keynote speaker who teaches executive education at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and Columbia Business School.

Dorie is also a Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Reinventing You, Entrepreneurial You, and Stand Out, along with her most recent title, The Long Game: How to be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World.

Rory shares his top three takeaways from their interview and reflects on how Dorie’s lessons can help listeners weather difficult periods in their life and business.

Tune in for key insights into conquering adversity and what envy can teach you about what you want!

Key takeaways from this episode

  • Why Rory was struck by the words significant, competitive moat.
  • How the things you are struggling with now will protect you in the future.
  • Some of the Brand Builders Group clients that persevered through early struggles.
  • How their commitment has paid off and insulated them against competition.
  • How to identify your desires and goals by asking yourself who you’re jealous of.
  • How to use your jealousy and admiration to identify your aspirations in a healthy way.
  • Get in touch with Brand Builders Group to get started on your vision today!

Tweetable Moments

“All of the challenges, all of the heartbreaks, all of the heartaches, all of the struggles that you are going through now will one day become the moat that securely protects you from other people coming in.” —  @roryvaden [0:06:20]

“The challenges you’re facing today that are driving you crazy are going to be the very same challenges that you’re grateful for one day, because they’re securing your safety. They’re securing your place in the market.” —  @roryvaden [0:12:11]

About Dorie Clark

Dorie Clark helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in a crowded, noisy world. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50, and was honored as the #1 Communication Coach in the world at the Marshall Goldsmith Coaching Awards.

She is a keynote speaker and teaches for Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and Columbia Business School.

She is the author of The Long Game, Entrepreneurial You, which was named one of Forbes’ Top 5 Business Books of the Year, as well as Reinventing You and Stand Out, which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. magazine.

A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, Clark has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.”

She is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and consults and speaks for clients such as Google, Yale University, and the World Bank.

She is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School, a producer of a multiple Grammy-winning jazz album, and a Broadway investor.

You can download her free Long Game self-assessment workbook and learn more at dorieclark.com/thelonggame.

Links Mentioned

Dorie Clark

Dorie Clark on LinkedIn

Dorie Clark on Twitter

Dorie Clark on Instagram

Dorie Clark on YouTube

The Long Game

The Long Game Self-Assessment

Reinventing You

The Tyranny of the Urgent

AJ Vaden on LinkedIn

AJ Vaden on Twitter

Rory Vaden

Rory Vaden on LinkedIn

Rory Vaden on Twitter

Take the Stairs

Brand Builders Group

Brand Builders Group Free Call

Brand Builders Group Resources

The Influential Personal Brand Podcast on Stitcher

The Influential Personal Brand Podcast on Apple

RV (00:07): Hey brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview as always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brand builders, group.com/pod call brand builders, group.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon, RV (00:54): And we’re back on the influential personal brand podcast recap edition solo episode with Rory Vaden. AJ is not with us here today, but I am dissecting and digesting. And then distributing knowledge back to you on the Dorie Clark interview that we did, Dorie has been a longtime friend, and she’s just really well loved and really well-respected in the space, in our space and in our industry. And so it’s great to be able to see her and learn about her new book and playing the long game and all, all these kinds of things. So I want to share with you there, there, there were, there were two major takeaways. I have, I have three, but I’m going to focus in mostly on these, these two major takeaways that really, really stuck with me. And this first one is totally unique. RV (01:50): I’ve never ever had this thought before. I’ve never heard anyone talk about this and the way that Dory said it, it was kinda like she sort of quickly and lightly referenced it. But as I was thinking back, it really, really hit me hard. And so we were having this conversation of how long does it take to be successful, right? And like, just about anything and, you know, sharing our kind of our perspective back and forth on all these different ways in places that we’ve seen people be, be successful and things that we’ve tried to accomplish, et cetera. And basically what we both concluded was that it’s like, it takes two to three years before you really start seeing the results of your work. And then at five years is when it really starts to get, you know, exciting. And I think there’s so many examples of that, you know, in, in my own life, as I, as I look back you know, and doing the world championship of public speaking, like that took, that took, that was like two years of my life. RV (02:59): And then after that, it was like another couple of years before speaking really started to take off. I think of the, the, the first company that we started and it was like, you know, we started off pretty strong, then we kind of like leveled off, but then it was about five, about five years into it. We started to really like, turn the corner and hit this, this exponential growth. And this is, this is, this is true in Dory. Was Dory was sharing that about her. I mean, brand builders group is now three years into the business and it’s where it’s starting to get exciting. Like, it’s basically just been a grind in a startup and digging ditches, as we say, and laying the trenches and the foundations of a building a company. And it’s like, oh, it’s starting to get exciting. And my guess is that within two or three years, it’s going to be like, holy moly, this is amazing. RV (03:50): And then, and then at some point after that, it just turns to almost like it feel, it starts to feel unfair because you’re just like, I don’t even feel like I’m, I’m having to work as hard for this wonderful blessing. And that’s because for five years you got your teeth kicked in and you got beat up and it was just like stress and heartache and problems and breakdowns and like one gut punch after the next. And there’s also still problems. I mean, it is, it is true more money, more, more problems. But I’d rather have those problems than, than, than the other ones. But so here’s, here’s the part that is unique. That really hit me, that I was like, oh my gosh, I’ve never had this thought. W here’s the words, I’ll tell you the words that she said. And she said this like very casually sort of nonchalantly. RV (04:42): And I don’t even know if she meant to emphasize it, but she said the words, significant competitive moat, MOA T moat, a significant competitive moat. And as I was thinking back after the interview, for some reason, those, those words were like hitting me, significant competitive moat, you know, and what is a moat, right? A moat is what they used to put around a castle. And they would put like alligators in there so that when the Drawbridge was up, it was like, good luck attacking the castle. You gotta like, get through all the alligators. A is a, is a barrier. It’s a, it’s an insulator for safety. It’s a protective device, right. Or a strategy or, or, or, you know, now I think that, that you have, well, here’s the part that stuck with me after, as I was thinking about that. And I was like, why is that? RV (05:38): Why did that hit me so strong, significant competitive moat? Well, here’s the power, all the things that you’re struggling with now, all of the obstacles that you’re facing all of the time it’s taking all of the blood and sweat and tears, all of the challenges, all of the heartbreaks, all of the heartaches, all of the struggles that you are going through now will one day become the moat that securely protects you from other people coming in. And I’ve never really thought about it like that, of going, oh my gosh, all of the heartbreak that I went through is now something that is out there, kind of like working in my defense, so to speak. Now we’re not, we’re not scarcity people, we’re abundance people. So we’re not worried about, like, we don’t worry about competitors ever. Like we, we, we don’t really freak out about competition. RV (06:40): We only think that there is collaboration, but even so it, it, it’s, it’s this idea that there is this barrier to entry. There is this price of admission. There is, there is this initial orientation or this obstacles. You have to overcome that to get to where you are, you know, like to where you’ve made it. And that’s those very same challenges that were annoying you and driving you crazy one day become the things that you’re thankful for as a, as a moat, as a barrier to competition. They, and it’s not just a barrier to competition. It’s sort of, it, it sort of symbolizes and codifies your place in the world as an expert or as an entrepreneur or as the leading business on blank, because you’ve made it through that. And not very many people do so that, that just really hit me hard. RV (07:41): It’s just like, wow, all the things that I am frustrated with now are one day going to be the things that are protecting me and protecting sort of like our place in the world or our business, or, you know, my place in the world. And you don’t really think about that as you’re, as you’re going through those challenges, but they do become a significant competitive moat. And I want that to be encouraging for you, because if you’re in, if you’re in those early stages right now, it’s hard, right. It’s discouraging. It’s painful. It it’s, it can be hopeless. I mean, it can be desperate where you’re like, I just don’t know if this is working. I’m so stressed and overwhelmed and broke and tired. And like, is this ever going to pay off? And the answer is yes. And then once it does, it keeps paying off because you’re now on the other side of this, this moat that almost nobody will get past because they’re going to, they’re going to stop and they’re going to quit at all the same places you’re thinking about quitting right now, right? RV (08:49): Like, think about that. Most people are going to quit at the same places. You’re thinking about quitting right now. So if you don’t quit, if you keep going, if you keep pursuing, if you keep chasing, you keep taking the stairs, you keep serving, you keep pouring out and adding value and working and building, you know, digging the ditches and building the infrastructure and doing all the things that we talk about. A brand builders group that like five years from now, you’re going to be standing like all alone. I mean, you’re going to be on this island with very few, you know, sort of like an elite few that have made it, and then that’s going to become part of your protection. That’s just really powerful. And you know, it’s really cool brand builders group because now that we’ve been around for three years, we’re seeing these stories. RV (09:35): One of my favorite stories recently to share is Ian cognac, who is one of our clients. And he started with us. And when Ian started when, when he first started, it was like, Hey, you should do a video every week. And this is one of the things that we teach in our curriculum, right? Is you need to publish one video every week. Well, Ian started doing that on LinkedIn is post a video a week, a video a week, and his first video, seven views, 14 views, 11 views, right? And at some point you go six months into it. He’s posting this. And it’s like 26 views. Not really feeling, feeling it, but we’re going just stay the course, just keep going. One video a week, one video a week, one video, a week, two years later, his average video view gets like seven to 8,000 views. RV (10:23): His com coaching roster is completely full. He’s got like more business than he knows what to do with this is now like his full-time gig. He’s living his dream. He’s changing lives because, and, and, and, and most people will never get there because they won’t cross cross that mode. You know, Anton, gun’s another person who started working with us a few years ago and it was, you know, low six figures, low six figures, three years later, he’s all in doing the stuff, you know, going through the grind, like all the things we’re asking him to do, and he’s doing it, he’s doing it. And three years later, it’s like several hundred thousand dollar business. Let’s just say, north of half a million. And well, north, because it’s like, oh, it’s, it’s starting to catch. And you create this. You insulate yourself against competition. RV (11:11): Lisa Woodruff is one of our clients. Who’s we started working with her several years ago. We met her and, you know, she was a couple million and now it’s like, it’s, it’s way more than that. She’s pushing the eight, this eight figure number, because they’re doing the things. And then it’s like, once you get to that, these new levels, very few people will get there because you have built a significant competitive moat. The things that the challenges you’re facing today that are driving you crazy are going to be the very same challenges that you’re grateful for one day, because they’re securing your safety and they’re securing your place in the market. That’s so, so powerful. And I’ve never, never thought about it that way. The second thing was around this, you know, I asked story this question. What’s how do you find your personal vision? RV (12:04): And, you know, we, we take the stairs, we talk a lot about vision. And we haven’t talked about vision boards and the power of vision. And I share some of the stories of some of the big visions I’ve had in my own life and how I wrote them out years in advance. And then they become true. And that has happened over and over again. I mean, it’s a very house that I’m sitting in and you know et cetera, but the there’s a lot of different ways to come at vision. And our, we have our conquering impossible goals course is we take people through all of this assessment and analysis of how to find their purpose and how to find what they want to be and what they want to do in life. And so, anyways, I just sort of randomly asked this question and I kind of thought, Dory might say something like what you hear all the time of, how do you find your personal vision? RV (12:53): But what she said really caught me off guard, and it’s really stuck with me. She said, oh, well, ask yourself, who are you jealous of? Who are you jealous of? And that was powerful. And a little bit like it caught me off guard because, you know, we think of jealousy. I mean, jealousy is a, you know, it’s a bad thing like jealousy, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. It tends to cause you to not be grateful for what you have, but there is also this, this little element that comes from not jealousy, but who do you admire? Right. I mean, I guess that’s, that’s probably the, the, the, the better way of saying it. It’s who do you admire? Who do you look at and go, gosh, I like what they have is so cool. I would love to do something like what they did. RV (13:41): Yeah, I think admire is a, is a, is a better word for this, but I think those are hints to your divine design. Like when you see something in the world that someone has, or someone created, or some group of people created and you go, that’s awesome. I would love to have something like that one day. I don’t think that’s an unhealthy feeling. I think if it, if it makes you go, oh, if only I had that, then I could be happy. That’s unhealthy if you said you know, oh, look at how easy they have it. I have it hard. That’s unhealthy if it’s, if you say gosh, they’re so lucky. And look at me like, I’m, I’m unlucky. That’s not healthy. Even if, even if you see something, you go, oh, I can’t be grateful for what I have, because it’s not this thing that I want. RV (14:42): That’s an unhealthy, but if you just simply go, you know, what they’ve done is amazing. I’d love to do something kinda like that. That’s totally healthy. That’s ambition, that’s drive that’s inspiration. And, and, and I would call that divine design. I think those little cues are hints. They are, they are clues as to the calling of your heart and the design of your life. And like what you’re created to do, because you there’s these things in the world that you see in, you’re drawn to them and you go, oh, that’s beautiful. I I’d love to do that or have that, or accomplish that, or support that, or create something like that. That’s a clue to your calling. And, and I think that’s, I think that’s super duper healthy. So Dory said, who are you jealous of? I’m a temperate back a little bit and say, who do you admire? RV (15:33): And allow yourself to sit in that admiration and allow it to be divine inspiration, and a clue for who you’re meant to become. And I think that’s a really, just a really fast, clear way of figuring out who you’re meant to be. And if you are on that journey, trying to figure out who you want to be, what do you want your personal brand to look like? You should request a call with our team and you should talk to us about that. We know something about it, where we’re really good at it. We have a lot of great history with clients and some of the things that we’ve done ourselves. And if you’re not yet ready for that, then I would just say, keep tuning in, keep coming back, listen and learn from these guests. We’re just sharing all this stuff for free from our friends, our networks, a lot of our clients that we bring on. RV (16:20): And you’re getting to learn from people who we learned from too. So I hope you’re enjoying the podcast. If you are, keep coming back, share it with someone. And if you’re ready to get serious about figuring out what is that future for you? What is that personal vision for your personal brand requests, a free call with our team and let’s talk and let’s get you going in that direction. But until then, we’re so glad you’re here. We love you. We believe in you keep coming back. We’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.

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25 of the World's Most Recognizable Influencers Share Their Tips on How to Build and Monetize a Personal Brand

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