Ep 459: 5 Steps for Coaches to Help Other People Create Breakthroughs | Michael Bungay Stanier Episode Recap

RV (00:00):

RV (00:43):
What does it take to be a great coach? How do you coach somebody else to create peak performance? How do you actually help another person have a major breakthrough in their life? That’s what we’re gonna talk about today. I’m gonna share with you my little five step formula for helping somebody else have a massive breakthrough in their life. And this comes from the fact that I have coached hundreds of top producers, top performers, ultra performers, some of the most influential people in the world, right? If you look at some of my one-on-one clients, I have coached people who are like the number one realtor out of 76,000 agents. I’ve coached people to the world championship of public speaking. I’ve coached New York Times bestselling authors, I’ve coached billionaires and, you know, multiple billionaires and several hundred millionaires. I have coached some of, of the elite kind of performers and business professionals on the planet.
RV (01:45):
And one of the things that I’ve learned, and I think a part of why I often get hired by these, you know, elite business performers or people who want to become elite, is because I have really over the years, learned a lot about the psyche of what it takes to create a breakthrough for someone else. And that’s just what I wanna share with you. So it’s really simple. The first thing before I get into the five steps, what you first must know is that the reason why most people don’t have major breakthroughs in their life is not because of logical or technical limitations. It’s because of emotional and mental limitations. Let me say that again. Make sure you get it right. The reason that most people don’t have big breakthroughs in their life is not because of logical or technical limitations. It’s because of emotional and mental limitations.
RV (02:47):
Meaning, if, if somebody is going to become an, an ultra performer, right? That’s my term that we use and take the stairs or a multiplier to use a term from my second book, there is somebody who has an exponential change in their results, an exponential change in their outcome. It usually doesn’t happen from learning a tactic. It’s not that they go, oh, oh, there’s some hack that I just needed to learn, and now all of a sudden my, you know, my results are gonna explode. It’s because of an emotional or a mental breakthrough that must happen. And so I’m gonna walk you through this five step process. I’ve never created a piece of content like this before, so I’m so excited to be sharing this with you because as I, as I, you know, listened to the, the interview with Michael Bungay Stanier, and you know, such a great interview.
RV (03:39):
And he, he’s such a, such a successful guy in the book. His book sells really, really well. And I was thinking going, wow, I’ve never actually talked about what are some of the things that I try to do to help my coaching clients create breakthroughs. And of course, this is something I try to do with myself as I coach myself as well. So, how do you have, how do you help somebody have a huge mental or emotional breakthrough or pivot or change that allows them to have the big breakthrough in their life? So here’s this little five step process. So number one, the first step is you have to listen for their limiting beliefs. Listen for their limiting beliefs. So you know, part of what I loved about this conversation with, with MBS, Michael Bunge Stanier that we had, and part of what I love about coaching in general, right?
RV (04:32):
The premise of coaching is interesting in true coaching. The true coaching model is to believe that not the coach doesn’t have the answer that the, you know, the student has the answer. And it’s sort of like Socratic ma method based on Socrates, which is that a great coach is supposed to ask questions, and that the, the answer is revealed to the student by the student as you sort of ask questions. And part of me really loves that and agrees with that. Part of me also goes, my coaching style’s not that way. You know, I ask a lot of questions and I try to help people get to the answer quickly. And if they’re not getting it, I, I wanna like tell ’em what it is. You know, if, if we can, if we can see it, and if, if we are, if something is revealed through the conversation that points to the answer, not that we have all the answers or that I have all the answers, but that we can see what their answer is.
RV (05:25):
And this is what is so key about coaching, which I don’t think people understand. It’s not that we have a one size fits all answer that we can just go, oh, tell me your problems. I’ll give you the answer. It’s not out of our expertise necessarily. Although in our particular area of personal branding and personal brand strategy, we have a very, very, you know, robust set of curriculum and content. But even inside of that, it’s not that we have the right answer. It’s, it’s all about finding the right answer for the client at that specific moment. And the best way to do that is to listen for their limiting beliefs. So how do you listen for somebody’s limiting beliefs? It’s very simple. First of all, you gotta understand what a limiting belief is. And then I’ll, I’ll share with you some triggers for this, right?
RV (06:15):
So what a limiting belief is, is their quote unquote true story. I’ll call this a true story. It’s not actually true, but in their mind it’s true. You’re listening for their, their true story about why they can’t do something or why they aren’t succeeding, right? Like, somebody, somebody. And, and so now let’s, let’s talk about that, right? So if, if somebody is talking, let’s say you’re coaching them and they say, yeah, you know, gosh, I would, I would love, I’d love to get in better shape this year, but it’s just like, it’s just not possible with a toddler. There’s just no way that can happen. So right there is, is I go, I can, I have this like, mental trigger that goes, ah, that’s their limiting belief. They just spoke it out loud. And people do this all the time. If you listen, you’ll hear when someone you’re talking to says out loud, they won’t hear it.
RV (07:13):
But if you have a keen ear, you have to train your ear for this is, you’ll go, ah, they just spoke their limiting belief. How do I know that? Because they just spoke out something that they believe is true about why they can’t do something else, right? They’ll say, oh, well, I couldn’t do what that person did because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, that’s a limiting belief. Or, you know, I’ve always been taught that you can never, you know, you can, you, you know, I’ll never be rich because I don’t believe in having debt. And, and everybody knows you need to, you need to take on debt to become rich. And it’s like, oh, so you’re listening for it, for you’re listening for their true story. It’s their rationalization, their justification, their explanation for why they can’t have something else. And that’s really key.
RV (08:04):
So you just gotta train your ear to listen for it, right? It’s their story. It’s something they believe to be true about why they can’t achieve something else. So that’s a huge, that’s like half of the battle right there is just being able to train your ear for it. Now, step two, in step two, I want you to call it out without singling them out. So what I mean by that is you want to, once you hear them say it, you wanna draw attention to it, but you don’t wanna make them feel stupid. You don’t wanna make them feel weak. You don’t wanna make them even feel wrong. So the the analogy that I think of for myself as a coach is I don’t wanna be a judge. I wanna be a mirror. I simply wanna hold up a mirror like a a, you know, a judge is determining right or wrong.
RV (09:03):
A judge isn’t a place of power. A judge is telling you you’re out of bounds. You know, you’re inbounds, you’re out of bounds. But a coach shouldn’t be a judge as much as they should just be a mirror to go, ah, let’s pause the conversation. Let me hold up, Amir, and I wanna reflect something back to you that I just heard. I just noticed that you said the reason you can’t do blank is because of blank. And so you just wanna reflect it back to them. And I want you as the coach to also encourage your client and for both of you to suspend whether or not that limiting belief is actually right. It might be true, right? It might be true that, you know, they, they literally go, oh my gosh, I’m involved in so many things. I just, I couldn’t, I couldn’t, you know, I can’t lose weight this year because I’m so busy.
RV (09:55):
‘Cause I have so many things. You know, that might be true, but it might not be true. It might be that they still watch 20, you know, three hours a night of Netflix, and that actually if they carved out 15 minutes from their Netflix routine, they actually could get in better shape. But you’re not in step two, your job isn’t to judge them. Your your job isn’t to render an opinion on whether or not this is right. Your job is to reflect it to them to call it out, but don’t s them out, right? Like singling them out is when you, you know, you, you kind of like embarrass somebody publicly. That’s not what you wanna do. You just wanna call it out to say, Hey, I just heard something interesting about what you said. The reason why you can’t blank is because of blank.
RV (10:39):
That’s a huge, huge important step. Now, number three, step three, step three is I want you to give them a new belief. Give them a new belief. So here again, you don’t necessarily need to tell them that what they believe is wrong, but I would use language like th this, I would say, Hey, I wanna invite you to consider a new way of thinking about this. And I just want you to try on, I love that language. I just want you to try on this idea for a second, try on for a second that it actually is possible to get wealthy without taking on debt. I just want you to try that on. It may or may not be true, but I just want you to try on that thought. I just want you to try on that mindset, I just want you to try on that belief, right?
RV (11:43):
That’s kind of like how you have to think about it is going, I notice you’re wearing an old outfit, and I just want you to try this on. You don’t have to buy it. You don’t have to own it. It doesn’t have to become your favorite thing. You don’t have to commit to wearing this, you know, out in public, but like right now, I just want you to try this on. And I want them to try on the idea to try on the, the the thought. So you want to give them a new belief. It’s basically like install a new operating system, give them a new way of thinking about a, a possibly a new way of thinking about, or just an alternate explanation of, or an alternate perspective for thinking about the thing that they currently think is true and set and defined in some other way, right?
RV (12:31):
So you’re gonna give them a new belief to try on. Then step number four, step number four is to fill them with encouragement. Fill them with encouragement. Here’s how you fill somebody with encouragement. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna take this to a biblical term. Now, you, you may not be a Christian, you may not be in the bli. The you may not believe in the Bible. By the way, if you don’t, I would really encourage you to check out my other, I have a podcast that I created called Eternal Life, seven steps, or excuse me. It’s called Eternal Life. Seven Questions. Every Intelligent Skeptic Should Ask About Jesus of Nazareth, where we look at the historical logical and academic accuracy and scrutiny of the Bible and the story of Jesus. You could check that out, but you know, you don’t have to be a Christian to, to appreciate, I think this concept, which is that the word inspire is actually a biblical term.
RV (13:32):
It means to breathe life into, and the, at least in the, the, the biblical account for the creation of, of humanity, of, of men and women, is that God s spoke the world into existence, and then he breathed life into, into man. So there’s this connection between word and life and breath, right? And so that’s where the, the word inspire comes from. It’s to use your words to breathe life into other beings or into things or into creation. That’s really a huge part of coaching. Again, even if you don’t believe in, you know, the Bible or whatever, hopefully you can, you know, grasp the power of that concept, that your words give life to people. They can give life to people. So how do you fill somebody with encouragement? What does it mean to actually encourage somebody? How do you use your words in a way that makes somebody feel inspired, that makes someone feel alive, that makes someone feel encouraged?
RV (14:36):
Well, it’s super simple. Tell them, like articulate to the person what it is about them that most impresses you. That’s how you inspire someone, articulate, you know, tell them what it is about them that most impresses you. You say, oh, I’m so impressed at how smart you are, or how sharp you are, or how fast, or how good you are at this, or, or how savvy you are at this, or your skills at doing this, or why I, the reason I love being around you is because of your energy, or because you’re funny, or, you know, because you always make me think differently. Or because you are you know, such a challenging you, you, you, you, you’re a critical thinker or whatever. That’s how you breathe life into people. And one of my favorite quotes is that Mark Twain said, each man is my superior in some way, or each woman is my superior in some way.
RV (15:34):
I really believe that. I really believe that all of us have something to learn from every other person. And so those are the things that I’m constantly looking for people. And when you want to breathe life into them, when you wanna fill them with encouragement, all you’re going to do is articulate what it is about that person that most impresses you, or what it is that you have learned from that person, or what it is about that person that inspires you. You inspire me to be a better parent. You inspire me to be, to read more. You inspire me to be a better leader. You inspire me to be better in excel. You inspire me to, to, you know, keep better track of my money. You inspire me to write more handwritten notes. You inspire me to be more spontaneous. You remind me to be more grateful.
RV (16:19):
Like whatever it is about the person, that’s what you articulate, and that’s how you fill somebody with encouragement. The reason that this step four is so important in helping somebody break through their limiting beliefs is that when you establish, when, when you’re helping somebody break a limiting belief, when, when you’re helping somebody break through this limiting belief, the neuroscience of this is that you’re forming a new neural pathway in their brain. Remember what I said about their, their limiting belief in step one? It’s their true story about why they can’t do something or why they aren’t succeeding. Why makes it true? What makes it true is not that it’s actually true. What makes it true is that they have told themselves that again and again, and again and again, and the human brain does not delineate between true and false, right or wrong. The, the human brain does not know right or wrong just by itself.
RV (17:18):
You have to teach it what’s right and wrong through programming. You have to teach it what is true and false through programming. So when somebody has a limiting belief, that’s an operating system that is running. Another metaphor that I sort of use for this is that imagine you’re going on a hike through the woods. Your neural pathways are like the path that’s been formed. The reason that path has been formed is ’cause you have walked that path several times. You have decided that that is true. You’ve reinforced it over and over again. So in your brain, literally there is a physical neural pathway that has been performed. And so it’s easier for your brain to think things that it has always thought, or it is easier for your brain to think things that it has already been thinking because the neural pathway has already formed.
RV (18:06):
When you get to step three in this, where you give them a new belief and you, you know, after you listen for the limiting belief, and then you call it out, and then you give them a new belief to try on. What you’re doing there is, is you’re trying to go off the path that they’re currently on, and you’re trying to form a new path. Literally, that’s what’s happening in the brain. A new neural pathway, a new set of synapses firing, you know, between like these neurons in your brain. And, you know, the illustration here is, think of it as you’re hacking through the forest and you’re, you know, you have like a machete and you’re like having to chop down trees. It’s harder to walk down a new path because the new path isn’t clear yet. The new path isn’t established yet, the new path, it’s also slower to walk down the new path.
RV (18:52):
It’s not as familiar and it’s not as cleared, right? So anytime you’re trying to create a new belief, a new mindset, a new pattern of thinking, it’s slower and it takes more time. That’s why you have to fill them with encouragement. You have to fill them with encouragement. And that gives them the encouragement is what keeps them going down the new pathway. And it’s, it’s saying, I, I believe in you. I know you’re smart enough to figure this out because you’ve inspired me to do blankety blank, right? I, you know, I, I, I know that you’re capable of doing this. And I, I know that you have, you are, you have all the characteristics of other people who have been successful in this journey. I know you have what it takes to do this. There’s evidence in your life that you have it because you impress me and you inspire me, and you want me, make me wanna be better, right?
RV (19:45):
So I’m filling them with that encouragement. And then step five, step five, and this will seem a little bit, counter to what I said earlier, give them what I call the 10% tactical. The 10% tactical. Now remember what I, I said at, at the very start of this, which I will hold true to, which is the reason most people don’t experience breakthroughs is not because of logical or technical issues. It’s because of emotional or mental, you know, limitations. But technical tips give people confidence. Technical tips, give people encouragement. Technical things make people feel like they have a new tool to try. And so that gives them sort of the you know, the, the willpower or the strength or the discipline or the motivation to actually take action and walk down the new neural pathway. So the 10% tactical is just saying, rather than giving them a whole bunch of things to focus on, give them the one thing, right?
RV (20:53):
So this is kinda like a 2080 rule, like the Pareto principle of, you know, focus on the 20% that creates 80% of the results, except it’s even more narrow than that, is I want you to give them the one tactical thing that they should focus on between now and, you know, your next encounter, your next meeting with them to go. If you just do this one thing, I believe that you will, this will create a 90% change in your results. One of the things that I think coaches do is they give people too many action items, too many things to do all at once, right? Give them the 10%, the 10% technical meaning, what’s the one technical thing that is a small, you know, tweak of their current behavior, only a 10% tweak of their current behavior that is likely to be responsible for a 90% change in their behavior.
RV (21:46):
You know, when, when I’m evaluating speakers, one of the things that you know we’re doing is, is I, I coach some of the best speakers, you know, in the world. And when I’m coaching very high profile speakers, it’s like, I don’t give them a hundred things to do. I try to give them like, you know, even in an hour long speech, I’m trying to give them two or three things. And really one big thing to go the next time you go out, I want you to focus on this one thing, because that’s the 10% tactical, the, the, the, the tiny little bit that they can focus on. But if they do that one thing, they’ll have a 90% change in their outcome or their results. So there you go. There you have it. This is my secret, never before shared formula on how to be a great coach and how to create breakthroughs in other people.
RV (22:32):
So step one is listen for limiting beliefs, right? Listen for their story about why they can’t do something. Step two, call them out without singling them out. Be a mirror, not a judge, but reflect back to them, Hey, I just heard you say the reason you can’t X is because of y. You’re reflecting it back to them. Step three, give them a new belief. Give them a new belief system. I just want you to try on for a second. What if you actually could do blank in order to get blank, right? And, and now open their mind up to actually, maybe there is a way to pull it off. Step four, fill them with encouragement. Tell them what it is about them that impresses you most. And then step five, focus on the 10% technical. Give them the one technical tip, the one technique change, the one skill thing, the one pragmatic or practical behavior change that you want them to focus on that will reinforce this new mindset.
RV (23:31):
If you do those five steps again and again and again, you will create breakthroughs in your clients like they’ve never experienced. And as your clients have breakthroughs, that’s gonna build your reputation. And as we know, reputation precedes revenue. That’s why we’re here at Brand Builders Group to help you turn your reputation into revenue. So if you haven’t yet requested a call with our team, I hope you consider doing that. So we could talk about helping you do that and generate more reput or generate more revenue from your reputation. You could do [email protected] slash podcast. That’s all we got for this time around. We’ll catch you next time on the influential Personal Brand podcast.

Ep 458: The Coaching Habit with Michael Bungay Stanier

RV (00:02):
I’m so honored to introduce you to someone who I have found to be a delightful human full of really deep wisdom and just someone who’s been a real joy to be around. We ended up meeting each other at this bestselling author meetup, just a private meetup of colleagues that happened just a couple months ago, and I’ve started following him more closely since then. And now I’m bringing him to you and you’re gonna love getting to meet him. So his name is Michael Bunge Stanier. And he is most probably most popular for his book called The Coaching Habit, which is probably the bestselling book on the topic of coaching this century. I followed his book long before I met him because here’s what’s very unusual about his book. It sells a lot every single week. , most books sell a lot at first, and then they kind of like trailed down, you know, from there.
RV (01:02):
Yeah. And this book has not done that for years. It has been. It’s just like super consistent every week in and week out. Michael also founded a Box of Crayons, which is a learning and development organization and company that’s trained thousands of managers to be more coach-like in organizations. So this is companies like Microsoft Te Gucci teaching their leaders how to become better coaches. And when I met him, I was just like, oh my gosh. We have to introduce you to our audience, both to hear the story of how you built your personal brand, but literally, like all of us are coaches in some form or fashion. So anyways, Michael, welcome to the show, buddy. Oh,
MBS (01:42):
Look, I’m super excited. That was an amazing gathering in Nashville, wasn’t it? There was so many impressive people there, . I was like, there’s so much to learn, and it’s such a supportive community. I mean, it’s a real insight around, part of the way you, you continue to elevate is you continue to hang out with people who are ambitious and doing smart things and, and are generous. And the the generosity in that room was really amazing.
RV (02:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I feel the same way. And I, you know, whenever I’m in a room like that with colleagues, I am you know, proud to be there, humbled to be there and, and, and then really blown away by a lot of the people because I’m, I’m a reader first. I’m a student first. I’m a fan first. Right. And so I’m, I’m fangirling over a lot of the, a lot of the people even these days. Like a lot of our clients, I’m like, you know, I’m, I’m glad that we’re helping them, but I’m also like, still so excited to like, get to know them and meet them. And so I think this topic of coaching Yeah. Is super relevant. And can you just like, talk us through the, the, the premise of the coaching habit and like that, not just the book, but the body of work and like what that’s all about?
MBS (02:57):
Yeah. You know, I I was really sure I was gonna be a coach early on. You know, it felt like one of those, the saying inspiration is when your past suddenly makes sense. When I discovered coaching, I was like, oh, look, my whole past aligns around that. When I was 17, I did crisis telephone counseling and helping kind of youth anxiety and youth suicide and stuff like that. And so I’ve been learning how to ask questions and stay curious and, you know, sink deeper into what was going on since I was 17. And I heard about coaching when I was working and living in London. And of course part of me is like, it’s a weird Californian thing. ’cause This is like in the 1990s before it really blew up . And part of me is like, intrigued and, and I’m in London where we’re, you know, skeptical about everything, but a part of me was intrigued.
MBS (03:44):
And then when I moved to the States and lived in Boston, I hired a coach and I started telling my clients, my consulting clients, I was coaching them, whether I didn’t know what that meant. And then when I moved to Toronto in 2001, I’m like, I’m gonna start a coaching practice. And I did my training and, and I found I didn’t love being a coach. Hmm. It was very confusing. I grew a practice, I had lots of people, I’m like, this isn’t quite right for me yet. But I’d been invited by a, a big multinational to help design a coaching training for them. And I designed other training on other topics before, and suddenly something clicked around this, which is, oh, I want to un weird coaching for busy managers and leaders, because coaching has this, it comes with baggage and there’s a lot of kinda woowoo ness around coaching.
MBS (04:38):
You know, it’s kind of like, oh, it’s mysterious, it’s touchy feely. Everybody’s wearing caf, dans and lighting incenses, . You know, there’s a kind of, there’s a, there’s a bunch of stuff that people are like a bit suspicious about it. And I’m like, I was really clear that I think coaching can be an amazing technology to unlock people’s greatness, help ’em have more impact in the world. I didn’t love how it was being taught in the, in the ways I’d seen it. And particularly I didn’t think it was being taught well in organizations where often life coach training was just brought in. And like, we’ll just tell the managers the same stuff. Yeah. So the origin of this was like, I want to un weird coaching for normal people. So even though, you know, I’m, I’m kind of well known, I guess in in coaching circles, the people I’m really trying to serve are people outside coaching circles, which are people like, I need, look, I’ve got a team. I’m trying to lead them. I’m tapped out in the leadership skills that I have at the moment. And I, I, I have a sense that I, you know, my organization’s telling me to coach them, and how do I do that? And I’m like, let me show you as best I can so that you can read the book or hear the book or whatever, and go, oh, if that’s coaching, I can do that. And that’s the impact I was really trying to have. Mm-Hmm. .
RV (05:57):
And I remember being in college, you know, when I heard the word coaching, I used to think of, you know, for me it was, it was athletic coaches. I did martial arts and I had basketball coach. Right. And I, I, I thought I thought of it very much as like instruction and teaching. And, you know, then I was in the world championship of public speaking and I had coaches that, you know, they were giving me feedback and they were critiquing. But then when I was, when I was in college, I took a class on coaching and I very vividly remember them saying, coaching is not teaching. It’s only listening. It’s only asking questions. And like, the foundational premise was that the, the client has all the answers. Yeah. And so it was like a very Socratic method of like, your job is to only ask questions. And so even to this day, I’m still a little unclear on like what the proper definition of coaching is. ’cause A lot of my clients call me a coach, but I teach them what to do.
New Speaker (07:02):
Like I tell them, you know, so I don’t know if that counts. I,
MBS (07:06):
I, well, I get, I think you can get really hung up on these kind of technical definitions of coaching. Sure. So I have a behaviorally based definition, which is simply this. Can you stay curious a little bit longer? Hmm. Can you rush to action and advice giving a little bit more slowly? Because I think coaching involves teaching. I think it is partly a, like I, look, I’ve got scars, I’ve got wisdom , I, I, I’ve got stuff. I can tell you this. You know, some of the answers are not waiting to be uncovered within because they’re technical stuff that you learn in a different place. And I’ve got that wisdom, and you don’t yet have that wisdom. So I think it’s ridiculous to say, oh, coaching, you can only ask a question. But equally, I think if you think coaching is just telling people what to do, you fundamentally misunderstood one of the powerful ways to help people learn.
MBS (07:56):
Mm-Hmm. . ’cause What you’re help, what you’re, the goal in coaching is to help people generate new insights about themselves and about the world. You can do that by asking questions. You can do that by offering up learning, teaching advice is to actually help them shift their behavior so they do something differently as a result of it. It’s helped them to notice the impact. So they get feedback from their new insight and their new behavior. And then it’s to help them then move to, now what’s the new insight? Noticing that. So insight, action impact. And that’s the cycle of coaching. And how you get there depends on the person, depends on the context. Depends on the moment.
RV (08:35):
Yeah. And you know, in inside that definition, and it’s like, I don’t, you know, like brand Mild’s group, I actually don’t define it as a coaching company, right? We are really a training company. We have curriculum, right? We’re putting people through processes exercises. Right. We’re certainly getting input, like to tailor it to what we’re doing doing, but it’s like, it’s not, and and to me that is very different from coaching of the idea of going ask questions to sort of help someone discover what Yeah. You know, their like I love the way that you said, I think the word that you, you said was it’s technical training. Yeah. Technical training is different from sort of a find the answer within type of a Yeah.
MBS (09:16):
Conversation. But there’s a, there’s a way that these two dance together. It’s not one or the other. I mean, if I was training you on, on your world championship speaking, you know, I, you could, you could give a talk and I could immediately jump in and go, right, Rory, let me, let me make some adjustments here. But it’s actually a more powerful lesson for me to go. So Rory, tell me before, I’ve got some ideas, but what do you think went well? What do you think your strength is? Where did you feel the weakness in, in the talk? What bit do you feel like you really need to focus on to kind of lift the level? And you figuring that stuff out is helpful for you. And it’s also then helpful for me to then go, right, let me take, I, I can figure out the advice that’s most useful for you.
MBS (09:59):
Like, even at the highest level of sport now, like the rugby world championships on rugby union. And if you, if you know it, you know, it’s a big thing. And if you know rugby union, you know that the New Zealand, all blacks are the team. They are the, they’re the most winningest team in sport. They have this unparalleled success record. They dominate this sport in a way that is incredible for coming from a tiny country. And the way these elite sports people are taught are part directed through questions. What are you noticing? What are you learning? What do you guys think we need to solve around here? And part technical intervention, which is like, here’s what we need to do differently around that. It’s both. And the bias that I’m looking to shift for people is start with curiosity and then know that teaching might be the thing that follows curiosity. ’cause That might be the most appropriate thing to do.
RV (10:55):
Mm-Hmm, . Yeah. And I think like you’re saying to the, to the context, I mean, there’s so much power in somebody realizing for themselves what, what, what the action is. I, you know, I also think about it in selling, you know when we teach like how to deal with objections, one of the things that we say is you are selling, if they’re talking, and that basically, it’s like, like the prospect. Your prospect only believes like 20% of what you say, but they believe a hundred percent of what you’re able to get them to say, .
MBS (11:30):
That’s great.
RV (11:31):
So if you, if you can ask the questions, if you can, if you can orchestrate the questions and engineer the questions in a way that the light bulb comes on for themselves as they’re talking, there’s, that’s like a, that’s a revelation that will be more influential than you just telling them what to, you know what to think. That’s
MBS (11:49):
Right. Because if you come in, if you lead with advice, and that’s what so many of us have kind of built in as our default, our default response. You know, somebody starts talking to you and after about 10 seconds, your advice monster comes up outta the dark and goes, oh, I’m gonna add some value to this conversation. Or just wait till they stop talking. ’cause I know what I wanna tell them. But if you, if you default to advice, the first thing you need to know is that the power in the relationship shifts. It’s like you go one up, they go one down. And when they’re one down, ’cause you’ve got the status, and they don’t, I know this answer. You don’t know the answer. People inherently resist advice sometimes even when they ask for it, they’re like, can you gimme some advice on that?
MBS (12:29):
Yeah. And yeah, , and I mean, just think of all the advice you’ve given and how little has been followed through on in your time. But if you can find a way for them to more specifically ask for it or figure some stuff out themselves, or for you to build on what they’ve already figured out, they’re just more likely to hear what you’ve got to say to them. So it’s not even, it, it’s like, it’s not even a, oh, I should always ask questions. It’s like, if I want my advice to land, leading with curiosity gives your actual advice a better chance of being more helpful and also acted upon. Mm-Hmm.
RV (13:02):
. Mm-Hmm. . Yep. It, it, it, there’s a part of it, like, especially I think when you’re managing quote unquote managing someone, right? I think it’s one thing if someone hires you to go, teach me a skill. Teach me, teach me Spanish. Right? Teach me how to do QuickBooks. Teach me, teach me how to paint. That’s very different from going, how do I manage my, my, my teammate to become a high performer? Or how do I have a conversation with my aunt, my aunt, aunt about how to change her life? Or how do I give advice to a friend who’s going through a tough time? And
MBS (13:43):
I think that’s true. But I’ll tell you this, Rory. You know, I, I’m, I am a teacher. Like I, you know, through my books and through my courses and the like, and something that, and knowing that there are coaches and teachers and, and people doing similar stuff who are building their own brand by building their own content one of my key design elements is what’s the least I can teach that would be the most useful. So part of that design philosophy is for me to not think that me just adding more value, more content, more information, more advice is actually helpful. Part of the discipline of being a great teacher is going, how do I strip it down to what’s essential? How do I give them the least of what I can do? And how do I create the most space for them to then interact with it, to play with it, to understand it, to deepen it? And one of the things that I see in less experienced teachers by teachers, you can be a facilitator or a coach or any other thing, is the sense of, I’ll just keep adding more content as a way of proving my worth. And the courage, the courageous act is to keep taking content out so that you shift you shift away to the audience’s interaction with your content. And it means you give up control, but you increase engagement and you increase learning.
RV (15:09):
Yeah. That reminds me of I’m pretty sure it’s Mark Twain who said that brevity is the essence of wisdom,
MBS (15:16):
Right? That’s right.
RV (15:19):
And it also takes, except
MBS (15:21):
He said it a little snappier than that. I’m kidding. As a .
RV (15:28):
But the, it, it also, it also, it takes more work to be able to say something concisely, but not to get away from your real point, which is to lead with, you know, to be curious, not necessarily to is So is being curious the same as just leading with questions?
MBS (15:46):
Well, I think, I think so. I mean, I think questions are the great, the great force of, of cur curiosity. So you know, it’s useful to understand that most of us have an advice monster, a driver to go look, the way I add value is I tell people stuff. And we have different things that, that advice monster feeds in us. Sometimes. It’s like, I like to just be the smart person, show my status, show that I have, prove that I’m adding value by the content I have. Sometimes it’s like, I like to be the person who rescues people. I like to save people. I like to be seen as a person who will protect everybody from everything and know everything. So nobody has to stress or worry. And sometimes it’s like, I just like being in control . And when I’m giving advice, I have the upper hand, I have control.
MBS (16:33):
But if you can understand that you’ve got a, a, a wiring and a bias to jumping in with advice, it’s deeply wired in your brain. Your brain loves certainty. And when you’re giving advice, even if it’s the wrong advice to solving the wrong problem, your brain is still going. But this feels quite good, . But when you ask a question, which your brain likes less, because it’s like when you ask a question, it’s a little more ambiguous for your brain. ’cause You’re like, is that a good question? Did they understand the question? Well, they have a good answer. What if they have a crazy answer that I don’t even understand? There’s a little moment of uncertainty, but then you shift the focus onto the person, you give them your full attention, it’s about them rather than about your status. And that’s when greatness gets unlocked.
RV (17:20):
And so is the, is the primary, you know, benefit of that, you’re saying to just that they’re more, they’re more likely to make a change in their life if they come to the realization themself? Is that the premise?
MBS (17:33):
Well, there’s a couple of premise behind it. The first is, if you leap in with advice too soon, quite often you’re not solving the real problem. You know, the one of the powerful questions in the coaching habit book is what’s the real challenge here for you? And the inside is the first challenge that shows up is not the real challenge. And when your advice monster is loose, you’re like, oh, that was the first challenge, and I’ve given you some advice that my work here is done. But your work here isn’t done because you’ve just offered up not very good advice to solve the wrong problem. So there’s, if you can become a, if you’re in a, in a leadership role, if you can become the leader who is known for figuring out what the real problem is, rather than having the fast answer, you become a much more revered, much more valuable person to the people around you.
MBS (18:23):
Because everybody’s got answers. Very few people have the discipline to say, what’s the real challenge here? What’s the hard thing? What’s the most important thing for us to solve? So part of it is like, can you figure out what the real problem is that that alone is, is gold dust? Secondly, it is absolutely true that if people figure out their own answers, they’re more likely to act on their own answers. So if you’d like people to do something differently, the more they can figure this stuff out themselves, the more they can make their own neural connections, you help them grow in competence and confidence and autonomy and self-sufficiency and all of that is good for them. But most of that can be really good for you as well, because you become more effective as a coach or as a manager or as a leader, because your people are like, I’m smarter. I’m more confident, , I’m better able to figure this stuff out myself. I mean, now less dependent on you as a leader, which means that you as a leader or whatever role you’re in, you can just get on with your own stuff.
RV (19:26):
So connecting this back to like, so I like, I I love this I love the application of this too, being a leader and a manager in Yeah. An organization. It, it, there’s also an element of this that to me feels like the more fam the the more familiar someone is with you, like the more, the closer you are in proximity, the more this feels important. Yeah. where it’s, it’s like your kids, right? Like they won’t, they don’t listen to you when you tell ’em to do stuff. They listen to somebody else. Yeah. Because you’re in such close proximity and, and the people you see every day that you’re leading on your team, it’s like eventually they just get tired of hearing you say the same thing over and over again. You know, when you look at it as, as being a coach that people hire, right? Mm-Hmm. And you go, they, they hire you. I think you, you, when you, you get into like the dance you’re talking about, about being curious, asking questions, but also typ, you know, I guess sometimes it’s like if, like for life coaching, I process this very much as like life, like a life coaching conversation. Yeah. If somebody is struggling, they don’t know why they feel blocked. They, they have low confidence. You know, a lot, lot of those are sort of these deep rooted issues.
RV (20:51):
If you look at like a different type of, you know, I’m a health coach or you know, something like that. Or like, I’m, I’m, I’m a, I’m an accountant who coaches people on their, on their, on their finances. Right?
MBS (21:07):
Certainly
RV (21:07):
There’s always that part of it. Like, what’s the real driving? How do you get them to change their behavior? Yeah. Like you’re saying it’s a behavioral model. This, this is like the, the getting them to modify the behavior is the part of it. Teaching them the what to do is a, is also part of it. So anyways, just any any tips on finding that balance, finding that dance, if you’re a hired coach Yeah. In, in those different kind of types of roles.
MBS (21:35):
So the starting point for me is when you are a coach in that role and you’re hiring your clients and you’re trying to figure out who your ideal clients are. Yeah. ’cause That’s part of the quest for success, is who do I best serve? Sure. you have a conversation with them at the start going, what does good coaching look like or sound like to you? let’s, let me tell you what it looks like. And it sounds like to me, and you actually have this conversation going, how do we talk about how we work together before we plunge into the work? Because, you know, if you’re a health coach, somebody shows up at your door and you’re like, right, , I’m go, I’ve got so much to tell you. I’ve got stuff about weight management. I’ve got stuff about diabetes. I’ve got stuff about exercise.
MBS (22:20):
I’ve got stuff about blood pressure. My, my head is filled with amazing content. And you’re like, I, and I’m so keen to prove my worth to you and add value because I’m, I want, I want you as a client and I’m driven by purpose around helping the world be healthier. So you’ve got all this motivation to get into the work, but the thing to do is, before you get into that work, ’cause it’s, it’s calling you, but it can wait a moment. If you look at your client in the eye and go, look, when you’ve worked with people before around your health and it’s been really helpful for you, what happened? What did they do? What did you do? And what can we learn from that? And now let me tell you my, when I’ve worked with people and I’ve coached them around health and it’s been really successful, let me tell you what happened, what they did, and what I did.
MBS (23:07):
And you actually have a conversation where you actually figure out what’s the best expression of our working relationship together. And a couple of things are gonna happen. One is you get to start educating your client around, this is how I work. Secondly is you’re like, you get to fire your client. ’cause You’re like, it seems like we don’t have a good fit here, even though it looked like we did on content because you got this health issue. And I know stuff about that health issue, the way we work is not compatible. And secondly, you go, right. So I think I understand what the balance is between how much curiosity and how much advice that that is best to strike in, in this circumstance. So there’s no generic answer to this, Rory, other than to say there’s a place for curiosity, there’s a place for advice on balance lead with curiosity. Because that will mean that when your advice shows up, it’s better directed, it’s more specific and it’s more likely to be solving the right, the, the real issue. But primarily it’s like whenever you are working with anybody, sit down and go, how will we work together?
RV (24:16):
Mm-Hmm. . So I wanna come back to the management like inside of a company like organization. Like a lot of the work you do with companies for a second. Yeah. You know, and I’m thinking about our team at Brand Builders Group and like, you know, we’ve got, we’re growing so fast that we have basically like a, a, a mid, a mid-tier level of management that’s developing. Mm-Hmm. And some of those are people who started with us and, and you know, they’re fairly young, but they’ve done so good and now they’re getting promoted. And so they’re in this new world of like, how do I manage and, and, and lead other people? You said something earlier in our chat that basically a lot of times people in corporate, you know, they have like a stigma about coaching. Like, oh, that’s woo woo or whatever. But then you show them this other thing and they realize, oh no, if that’s what you mean, I could do that. Yeah.
MBS (25:04):
What,
RV (25:04):
What is that switch there? What’s, what’s the thing, what’s the thing that they’re thinking now that gives them the stigma about coaching and what’s, what’s the way that they start thinking about it once they understand the coaching habit? Yeah.
MBS (25:17):
You know, in general there are five reasons why people resist coaching, certainly in organizations. So let me walk through the five points of resistance and offer a a counterpoint to those points. So the, the first is people go, I just don’t have time for this stuff. . I mean, I’d love to be coaching my people, but Rory’s a hard task master. I’ve got too much on my plate. My calendar’s already super busy. And you know, I know coaching is like this, what is it, 45 minute or one hour conversation. I can’t, I just, I mean, I’ve got a life. I can’t do that with my people. And I’m like, great. I agree. If you can’t coach in 10 minutes or less, you don’t have time to coach. So it’s like resetting this expectation around what coaching is. It can be a really fast conversation.
MBS (26:06):
In fact, at its best it’s five minutes or it’s 10 minutes. Hmm. And then the second point of resistance people go is, Michael still don’t have time to coach. Even if I could coach in five minutes or less , like my world is full and the gaps I’ve got in my calendar are for going to the bathroom, having lunch and doing all the other stuff that is urgent and important on, on my plate around this. I can’t add coaching to what’s expected of me in my company. And I’m like, great, if we’re trying to add coaching to what you’re already doing, we, we, we’ve lost. It’s just pouring water into a full glass. This is about transforming what you currently do so that you can be more coach-like in the way that you interact in your current interactions on email, in person, over Zoom, whatever it might be.
MBS (26:54):
It’s not adding it. You are not going, I need to now add coaching to everything I’m already doing. It’s like, be more coach-like in your current interactions. Then the third point of resistance people go is like, look, I don’t, look, I don’t wanna be a coach . I didn’t sign up to brand builders group to be a coach. I signed up to help people figure out what their essence was in the world, or help them drive their marketing or help understand their speaking position or help build their speaking business. You know, I’m a marketeer or I’m a sales person, or I’m a brand builder. I’ve got technical expertise that I’m working on. Don’t make me be a coach. And I’m like, great, I don’t want you to be a coach. There are lots of coaches who want to be coaches, but I want you to be coach-Like, it’s not a role, it’s a leadership behavior.
MBS (27:41):
We’re not, we’re not making you put on an uncomfortable suit, which is like, this is just an essential way to lead, be coach, like, love that. And then people go, this is, this is number four. Which is like, but I honestly, I’m not even sure what coaching is because like you, it’s like, is it sport? Is it executive? Is it life? Is it health? Is it a DHD? Is it, you know, there’s a thousand variations of coaching and I’m not sure what any of them are. And that’s that definition we’ve talked about. Really behavioral, can you just stay curious a little bit longer? Can you rush to action and advice giving a little bit more slowly so it’s got no woo woo or kind of outcome thing. It’s just a process, staying curious longer. And then the fifth and final point of resistance, Rory, is people going, okay, but what’s in it for me?
MBS (28:32):
Like, I can see why Rory wants me to be a coach, because that’s gonna help the people in, in the organization thrive and do their best and keep up with the, the growth we’re having as a business. And I can understand why the people who I’m leading would love me to be a coach because it’s a great leadership skill and I feel seen and I feel heard and I feel encouraged and I’d be become more competent and confident and capable and self-sufficient. But, you know, you’re asking me to shift my behavior. I’m pretty good at giving advice. what’s in it for me. And for me, I would say it helps you essentially work less hard and have more impact. So whether, you know, Rory, people are wired one of two ways. They either wanna move away from pain or they wanna move towards a reward. So if you’re a move towards a reward person, it’s like this allows you to do more great work, work that has more meaning, work that has more impact and those around you to do the same. But you, you get to do more great work. And if you wanna move away from pain, it’s like, this has means that my team is less dependent on me. It means that I’m less overwhelmed and it means that I’m more connected to the work that really matters. So
RV (29:45):
That, that one’s the one that, that jumps out to me. ’cause A lot of ways this is basically like, not ba but part of what this feels like to me is it’s the difference between fishing for a man and teaching a man to fish.
MBS (30:00):
Right?
RV (30:00):
Right. Like, if, if, if, if I train my team that I have the answers, I tell them what to do, I solve the problems, then they constantly come to me for every one of those things. The,
MBS (30:12):
The more you give them the answers, the more they come to you for the answers. The more they come to you for the answers, the more you give them the answers. And like before you know it. And this is coming from good intentions, like it’s exhausting. And you’ve built a team of vampires who are just draining your life. Like what? You guys are smart and capable and talented. That’s why I hired you. What has happened? And you’ve just built this system where they’re like, they’re like, I don’t feel I can come up with my own stuff. ’cause You wanna gimme the answer the whole time. So it’s a real shift in identity sometimes.
RV (30:44):
Yeah. I mean, one of the other things that you, I don’t think has come up in this conversation, but one of the other benefits of doing it this way is you actually learn a ton. Like you actually, I I’m shocked sometimes at the creative stuff that like a team or a client will come up with where I’m like, I never would’ve thought of that. Right. And by not launching into just like giving them the recipe, you, you have a chance to be like, there’s this beautiful discoveries that, that come out of it.
MBS (31:17):
Well, you haven’t hired the people you’ve hired to just come up with ideas as good as you can come up with. ’cause You’re like, I can already do that. I’m hiring you to have ideas better than I can do and take this business further than I can think of. You want their full brilliance. And this, this commitment to curiosity allows people to say, oh, I’m going to bring my best. You’ve given me the insight and the courage and the commitment to kind of like, try and be braver, be bolder, have better ideas.
RV (31:48):
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Well I I, I wanna, I wanna ask you one other thing before I do that. Where should people go, Michael, just to like, connect with you? I know that we’ll, we’ll put links to the Coaching Habit book and, and your other books and stuff too. But where should people go if they wanna link up with you? Yeah,
MBS (32:06):
The main website is mbs.works and that’s a hub for all the books, the coaching habit, the advice trap, the new one is called How to Work With Almost Anyone. And all of those books have, you know, free resources and stuff. So whether you want to download the questions from the coaching Habit book or see me hold a Keystone conversation from how to work with almost anyone, all of that’s accessible and available for people. Mm-Hmm.
RV (32:27):
. And so if, if, if somebody is kind of saying, all right, I, I want, I’m willing to give this a shot, whether, you know, it’s with a paying client or someone they’re managing or even a family or a, you know, a member or a friend. What’s, what’s kind of the first thing? I mean, I know the, the message here is just stay curious longer and you, you know any, any other kind of tips in terms of the first thing they should do or the, to focus on or like to shift in order to help them do that? Yeah,
MBS (32:59):
There’s a couple of places you might wanna start. One, one really interesting place to start is just start noticing how much advice you give during the day. how quick you are to jump in, often interrupt kind of how quickly you stop listening to the other person. ’cause The, the, the answer is already in your head. You’re like, we’ve only just met, we’ve been talking for 20 seconds. You’re telling me a complex situation about people I don’t know in a culture, I don’t know with a team. I don’t know, but I think I’ve already got the answer for you. So just start noticing how quickly you default to that. That’s one option. If you wanna get more specific. You know, staying curious longer is a really great overall mantra, but it’s unlikely to shift your behavior. So what I would do is get specific, this is just good habit building 1 0 1, which is like, who’s the person with whom you’d like to build a coaching habit and what’s the context in which you might be interacting with that person?
MBS (33:56):
And if you could ask, pick just one question to ask that person might be, what’s the real challenge here for you? It might be, and what else, you know, the best coaching question in the world. There’s always a place for, and what else it might be. What was most useful or valuable for you at the end of the meeting? You could just pick one question. What question would it be? You know, people abandon, have a building ’cause they try and take on too much at once. The smaller you can make it, the more likely it is that you’re gonna get that first rep, rep in. And once you get the first rep in, the second rep’s easier. So pick something specific, pick one question, one person, one context, and then commit to actually following through on that.
RV (34:39):
That’s great, man. Well, I I, I love it. I mean there, I, there’s no doubt that this can, if nothing else, this can improve our relationships with one another dramatically. It’s like God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. , that’s right. And is, you know, be be it’s kind of the like slow to speak, quick to listen, kind of a kind of a thought. So I really, I really appreciate this and love it. Thanks so much for being a part of this and sharing your wisdom and, and we’re cheering you on, man.
MBS (35:09):
Yeah. Thank you Rory. It’s been great.

Ep 455: The Secret to Self-Worth | Erwin McManus Episode Recap

RV (00:07):
Hey, brand builder, Rory Vaden here. Thank you so much for taking the time to check out this interview. As always, it’s our honor to provide it to you for free, and wanted to let you know there’s no big sales pitch or anything coming at the end. However, if you are someone who is looking to build and monetize your personal brand, we would love to talk to you and get to know you a little bit and hear about some of your dreams and visions, and share with you a little bit about what we’re up to, to see if we might be a fit. So if you’re interested in a free strategy call with someone from our team, we would love to hear from you. You can do that at brandbuildersgroup.com slash podcall brand buildersgroup.com/pod call. We hope to talk to you soon.
RV (00:52):
What a powerful conversation with the legendary Erwin McManus. I mean, this guy is one. He is, I think one of the wisest teachers that we’ve got in on the planet today. And just so honored to get to become his friend, you know, have him become a client, get to interview him here for you. And, and you can just, you can just see that there is a just a level of spiritual wisdom, like spiritual intelligence and, and emotional intelligence from knowing how the world operates and knowing how people operate and how, how we’re wired and what are the things that we do to self-sabotage, and what are the things that we can, we can do to increase the likelihood of our success. And so I wanna, I want to recap and, and extend a couple of the things that I learned from Irwin in that specific interview that are sticking with me.
RV (01:47):
And, and also, you know, when I think of the mindset shifts that need to take place, of course, we, you know, the interview was promoting his, his, his book mind Shift. And when I think of some of the key mindset shifts that need to take place for someone to build a great personal brand, be a great entrepreneur, and, and really maximize and achieve their God-given potential I wanna I wanna share three of those with you today that, that were kind of inspired by Erwin. So first one is, I loved when he was talking about don’t be a prisoner of praise. I really align with that. I think so many of us are playing for the applause of others. And in reality, I think the applause you should be playing for, first of all, for me, it should be your Heavenly Father, right? It should be this idea that when we get to heaven, he, he says, you know, job well done, right?
RV (02:48):
Like, you loved me, you loved others, and that’s it. Now, separate from that, I, I think it’s playing really for yourself and not meaning that you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re self-centered in the sense of like, you only care about winning yourself. But I think what, what matters is that you need to be proud of yourself. You need to be proud of yourself. It really shouldn’t make that much difference to you. I don’t think about how other people think of you. And I think some people go their whole lives trying to make like their, their alcoholic parent proud of them. And it’s like, it’s never gonna happen. And it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with them. And why are you spending so much energy and time seeking the approval of somebody else who caress about the approval of someone else? You know what?
RV (03:42):
You don’t need to be successful in life. You don’t need the approval of other people. What you need to be is proud of yourself and confident enough to step forward and do the thing that you feel called to do. Like in some places, there are certain requirements. In some places, there are certain prerequisites, you know, for, for steps that you can take seeking having other people’s approval often is not one of them. And specifically, you know, it’s like an ex-boyfriend or, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a bully in high school, or it’s, it’s like these people who we allow to control our lives by allowing their influence that they once had on us to hold us today stagnant and still stuck in a place of mediocrity when we should be pursuing and expanding and achieving our potential. So I want you to focus on being proud of yourself.
RV (04:39):
And part of being proud of yourself is, is why in my first book, take the Stares, right? We say all the time, like, put your self-esteem in your work habits, not in your results. Like, being proud of yourself is not going, oh, you know, I have a million followers, or I made a million dollars. It’s, it’s being proud of the work that you’re putting in. It’s acknowledging yourself for the things that you’re doing that nobody else sees. And that’s why you have to be your number one cheerleader. You’ve gotta be the person who goes, even if the results aren’t there yet, I’m doing the work, right? I mean, I remember when, when I was speaking 304 times for free at the, you know, in these Perkins restaurants and in these like, you know, trashy comedy clubs on a Tuesday night. Nobody was there giving me applause, but I knew that, I said, you know, if I’m doing this one day, I’m gonna be speaking on stages in front of arenas of people, and it’s, I’m paying the price now to earn that, right?
RV (05:39):
Right. Like when I was, you know, creating my first book proposal and I was writing out the manuscript no, nobody was leaving Amazon reviews saying, oh, this life, this book is life changing. Nobody was there cheering me on, right? Like, well, some, some people were right. I’ve been fortunate to have, you know, my wife, my, my family in very supportive environment. So I I, I have had people cheering me on, but the, the person that matters most is you. You gotta be the person cheering yourself on. When I was in college and people were slamming the doors in my face like I was going, well, that’s okay. I know that if I talk to enough people, somebody’s gonna buy, I’m gonna get paid for every door that is slammed in my face. If I just keep going, you gotta be the person cheering you on.
RV (06:21):
And that’s how you need to think about it. When I say put your self-esteem in your work habits, right? Like, one of the things that I did when I was in college was you know, my, my first summer when I was going door to door, I made like $17,000. And I figured out, you know, that I knocked on whatever it was like th like, there was like 3000 doors, you know, that I had knocked on. And there were like 3000 doors that had slammed the door on me, and we used to keep track of them, right? And so what I, what what I found out is like, oh, I made $17,000 and I, I knocked on 3000 doors, or that told me no, what most people do is they think of going, oh, you know, I had however many hundred, a few hundred customers, and those are the people who paid me.
RV (07:03):
But the game that I played, and I actually wrote a song about this so I’ll, I’ll I sing for you, is I figured out that I actually made $4 every time someone slammed the door on me. ’cause I made $17,000 total in the summer. I knocked on 3000 doors of people who told me no. So that is $4. So rather than thinking, oh, I make money when I make a sale in my, my second summer, I played this game, and whenever somebody would slam the door on me, I would sing the song. I would say, I make $4 because you holler at me, baby every time, every time I you holler, I make four more dollar for me rv. I make lots of money because you yell at me. Thank you for slamming the door on me. Woo-Hoo. Like, that was the silly song that I was singing, and I would actually sing it out loud between doors, right?
RV (07:58):
So if, if somebody had been following me, and every time I knocked on a door they handed me that every time someone slammed the door on my face, if someone handed me $4, I’d be like, that’s amazing. I’m gonna go knock on another door and see if they’ll slam the door on me too. And then here’s $4, here’s $4. That is how it was, right? That is how it is. You’re getting paid for every rejection you’re getting paid for every setback you’re getting paid for. Every time you fail, you’re getting paid for every time. It doesn’t work out. The problem is, there’s nobody standing there handing you the four bucks. You gotta be the one, right? You gotta be the person handing yourself $4. You gotta be the one cheering yourself on. You have to be your the number one cheerleader of your own life.
RV (08:41):
You gotta be reminding yourself, I’m getting paid for all of the work that I’m putting in right now that nobody else sees. If you can’t cheer yourself on, then you’re never gonna make it, because no one’s gonna be there to applaud you. No one’s gonna be there to cheer for you when you’re failing. The only person that’s gonna be there is you and God is. So you better learn how to cheer yourself on. You better figure out a way to play a game or have a mindset shift, or use affirmations or have a mental, you know, paradigm that says, I just made four bucks. I just made 20 bucks. Every time someone slams the door on me, every time someone tells me no, every time I don’t get booked for this, I don’t get invited to that. I’m getting paid. Like, and, and you have to be that person going, I don’t care if I’m not winning right now. I’m putting in the work.
RV (09:31):
I’m doing what it takes. And even if the results never come, I’m so proud of myself. I’m so proud of myself for working when nobody’s watching. I’m so proud of myself for hustling when there is no applause, I’m so proud of myself, right? And then, you know, one day I get inducted into the professional speaking hall of fame when I’m 37 and everyone’s clapping going, oh, you know how cute this guy is so young. And it’s like, dude, I’ve been getting, I’ve been getting rejected and slammed for 20 years, so I might be young in age time, but I’m old in stage time. I’m old in rejection, I’m old in setback. I’ve experienced massive failure and I just cheered myself on through it. And that’s what I would hope for you, right? Because at the end of the day, you won’t care about being in the Hall of fame or having millions of dollars, millions of followers, or been invited to this, that, or whatever.
RV (10:24):
What you’ll be, what you have for the rest of your life is you, you will always be there with you. And so how you think of yourself is what matters, what other people think of you that doesn’t matter. But how you think of yourself matters. You need to be your, your your number one cheerleader. You need, you need to be the person that whose praise that you’re seeking. I want you to work so hard that you become proud of yourself. So that’s a mind mental mindset, mindset shift that needs to happen. Number two, you know, I loved when Irwin said this. He said, at first, you always feel like a fake, right? Whenever you start something new, you feel like a fake. Here’s what you need to know. Here’s what you need to understand. If you’re, if you’re new to something, you’re not a fake, you’re just a beginner, you’re not a fake, you’re just a beginner, right?
RV (11:17):
The first time you pick up a camera to do a photo shoot or edit a video, and you’re like, man, I don’t know what to do. Like, you’re not a fake, you’re just a beginner. Or maybe you’re the person on the other side of the camera and you’re recording your first reel and you’re like, oh my gosh. Like, I don’t, I don’t look anything like Alex Hormoze or Tony Robbins or you know, Oprah. And I’m like, I feel like such a fake, you’re not a fake, you’re not a fake, you’re just a beginner. That’s it. And you can’t, you can’t look at a master and compare what they’re doing with you as a beginner, but just because you’re not yet a master doesn’t mean you’re a fake. They were that way too. I promise you, I promise. Every, every New York Times bestselling author once felt like a fake, every Hall of fame speaker once felt like a fake, every eight figure entrepreneur once felt like a fake ev.
RV (12:02):
Every actor once felt like a fake. Every celebrity once felt like a fake, especially the bigger the goals you’re pursuing, the more you feel like a fake, because the more impossible it feels, and the fewer people around you there are that have ever done that, right? Like you, you might feel like a fake. You’re not a fake, you’re not a fake, you’re just a beginner. You’re just learning. You’re just starting. Give yourself grace again. Be proud of yourself for trying and keep going and, and, and, and, and celebrate your own wins. Be your own cheerleader. Be proud of yourself. You’re not a fake, you’re just a beginner. And then the third thing, you know, Irwin brought this up, which, which I always love when people that are super successful and are like living legends when they talk about this, you know, Irwin said, take the posture of an amateur, take the posture of an amateur.
RV (13:01):
You know, the way, the way that I process that is to go, you have to be willing to always be a beginner. Be willing to always be a beginner. Probably my most famous quote from my first take the Stairs book is, success is never owned. Success is rented, and the rent is due every day. Part of why I said that success is never owned, it’s rented, and the rent is due every day is because it’s true. It’s like, even if you’re a master, you can still be a beginner, right? Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, like you, you hear the stories of how hard they practice. You know, you, you, you of about the amount of energy and time they are Steph Curry shooting free throws and shooting three pointers. Like, yeah, he is a master, and he’s still doing it every single day. He’s paying the rent every single day.
RV (13:50):
You, you, and you, excuse me. You see that behavior modeled by the most successful people in the world in all walks of life. The ones who continue to climb. They allow themselves to always be a beginner, be willing to be a beginner. Most people don’t wanna be a beginner because it makes ’em feel like a fake. That’s why it’s so important to realize you’re not a fake. You’re, you’re just a beginner. And it’s okay to be a beginner, right? When I, when I try to play the piano or the guitar, I feel stupid. I’m like, I don’t know what to do. I’m not, I I don’t get this right? Like, if I’m cooking in the kitchen, I feel stupid. I’m not stupid. I’m just a beginner. I just haven’t done it much. I’ve lent my time and my attention and my energy to other things.
RV (14:38):
And one of my all time famous, not famous quotes, one of my all time favorite quotes, and I believe it was Mark Twain who said this, this is who I attribute to it, is Mark Twain said, every man is my superior in some way. Every man is my superior in some way. That’s so true. And that gives you grace for yourself. And it also puts things in perspective when you meet other people and you go, wow, I really admire, you know, this person, they’re so funny, or they’re such a great leader, they’re a great speaker, or a great mom, or a great dad, or they’re a great cook. Or, or, you know, they’re in super in shape. And it’s like, doesn’t mean that person’s better than you, it just means that they’re, they, they are your, they are your superior in some way, but there’s other ways that they’re not right?
RV (15:26):
Like their marriage might be a mess, or their finances might be a mess, or they might be struggling with self-confidence, or they’re not as spiritually centered as you are, or they just, you know, they have different skill sets there. There’s not like a ranking system where we go one human is better than another in, in all things, but in, in some ways, they are right. Every man is my superior in some way. And you know what that also means? That likely means that you are superior to every other man in some way, right? There’s something that you do. There’s something that you, there’s at least one thing in your life that you know more about or you do a better job of than everybody else, a a around you. And so it creates this unequal, it creates this equal playing field by realizing that we all have unequal talents.
RV (16:12):
We have, we have non proportionately distributed talents. That’s called uniqueness. That’s called God’s divine design for your life. That’s called your, your, your blessing, that you were born to do something that only you can do. So lean into those things and realize, yeah, you, you might become a master, you might become an expert. There are some things where it’s like, I am a master. That there, there are just some things. And that’s why, you know, we try to, we try to teach the things that we’re really good at. And if you wanna build your personal brand, like, gosh, you’re gonna be hard pressed to find anyone better in the world that can teach it to you than us. Like we’re really good at this. Anybody who wants to become a speaker or an author, or a coach, or who wants to speak or write or teach as a way of generating leads for their business, I mean, we spend our whole life doing this, but if you want me to like, change your oil or cook you a meal, or like give you parenting tips, like I’m not the guy, I’m, I’m not the master in that every man is your superior.
RV (17:14):
Every woman, each is, is your superior in some way. So that should both help you put an appropriate level of, of praise on other people and an appropriate level of grace on yourself. And, and have a balance of both confidence and humility to know that each, each man is my superior in, in some way. But if you do those things right, a lot of this comes down to, to going, you gotta be proud of yourself. You gotta find a way to celebrate yourself. You gotta be the person who believes in you. You gotta be the person who cheers you on. You gotta be the person who says when, even when no one else is watching, when no one else is clapping, when no one else is paying attention. You go here by myself in this moment when I’m alone, I’m learning the things and I’m doing the work, and I’m surrounding myself with the people who are gonna help me do the things that I want do that I feel called to do one day.
RV (18:11):
And so if, and if building a personal brand is that thing for you, request a call with us. Will you please talk to our team? This is, this is something that we, we know something about and we’ve got a track record and we’re working with some of the most amazing people in the world, like Erwin McManus, and you know, just go to free brandand call.com/podcast, request a call, talk to someone on our team, and between now and then be cheering yourself on. Find a way to be proud of you. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.

Ep 454: Mindset Shifts that Lead to Massive Success with Erwin McManus

RV (00:02):
Such an honor today to be able to introduce you to someone who I think is one of the most brilliant people on the planet. I think one of the most gifted communicators, one of the most intelligent people at creating distinctions that truly can transform your life and your business. And his name is Erwin McManus. And Erwin is the national bestselling author of this new book the book is called Mindshift. And Erwin has written several books. He sold actually over, well, well over a million copies worldwide. His books have been translated into over a dozen languages. He speaks all over the planet. He has spoken in 70 countries. I know that he speaks sometimes in stadiums, and he works with organizations like the NFL and the Pentagon. And he also has been a private coach to professional athletes, celebrities, world leaders, like billion dollar companies. And he just, I think, has a gift for helping people unlock their personal genius. And it’s been an honor to get to know him and work with him a little bit over the last year or so. And anyways, Erwin, welcome to the show.
EM (01:15):
Hey, thanks for having me, man. I, I, I, I’m impressed by the way you introduced me, but it’s, it’s not, it’s not quite that big, but it’s great. .
RV (01:24):
No, I mean, in, in all seriousness, it, one of the things that I love about you, Irwin, is like several of the most influential people that I, that are clients of ours and friends of ours. Mm-Hmm. . It’s amazing how many of them point back to you and say, Erwin changed my life. Irwin, Irwin changed my business. Irwin, Irwin changed the way that I, I think. And you know, I just, I, so anyways, I really, I really do believe it. But let’s talk about mind shift. , let’s talk about the, the, the, the, I mean, anything related to mindset right now, to me is super valuable and relevant because there’s so much turmoil in the world. There’s so much noise. I think there’s a lot of evil, a lot of negative programming and businesses, entrepreneurs, salespeople, authors, speakers, all of us have to protect our mind. And, and so gimme the premise behind Mind Shift. Why this book? Why now? The background?
EM (02:27):
Yeah. I mean, the premise of the book is written on an empty page with one sentence on it that says, the intention of this book is to destroy internal limitations. And Rory, one of the things that my life journey has helped me see is that no matter where a person is in their life stage, or what arena or domain they work in, they have the same internal struggles. I spent 10 years working with the urban poor, with with drug cartels, with street gangs, with wow people trapped in the world of drugs and prostitution. And I was super idealist, you know, in my twenties. And I thought if I could just remove all the external obstacles that are gonna thrive and break out of poverty and, and the lives are gonna change, and I began to discover to a, a really a, a very painful level that the real limitations for people who are trapped in poverty were the internal narratives, the, the mental structures that, that really ingrained poverty mindsets.
EM (03:28):
And I thought, okay, when I moved to LA start working with artists, creative celebrities, you know, the most talented and attractive people in the world, I’d have to develop new tools, exact same thing, the same internal mental structures, limited them, and really held them back and actually stole from them the joy of their success. And then the last, you know, decade or two, working with people in the hundred, millions, billions, people who have started companies from scratch and, you know, and have had immense success, people, the top of their fields, same exact mental structures. And so one of the things I really quickly began to discover is that you cannot get successful enough to fix your inner world. You actually have to do the work of developing mental structures for success. And one of the things that really highlight in Mindshift is most people try to prepare themselves to bear the weight of failure, but they rarely prepare themselves to bear the weight of success. And that success actually weighs heavier than failure.
RV (04:27):
So I wanted to ask you about that. ’cause You, I, that is one of the things you say directly in the book, you say, success weighs more than failure. It’s one of the questions I had prepared, . And since you, it was actually gonna be one of the last questions, but since you went there , like, talk about that. What does that mean exactly? ’cause I know you, you’ve been around and it’s unique. You’ve been around a lot of successful people Mm-Hmm. . But you’ve been around successful people in many different avenues. The political arena, the sports arena, the, the entertainment arena, business nonprofit. Like, you have this unique exposure. So with that was one of the things that caught my attention. So unpack that idea. Success weighs more than failure.
EM (05:14):
Yeah. Well just a little added caveat to that is the fear of failure weighs more than failure.
RV (05:22):
Oh, that’s good.
EM (05:24):
And, and so a lot of times what people think they’re being suffocated under as failure, but they’re not. It’s the fear of failure. Failure actually is not nearly as heavy as the fear of failure. When you fail, you realize, oh, I got this . I can, I can actually survive this. It’s, it’s the weight of the fear of failure, the fear of rejection, the fear of shame, the fear what others will say, that is what’s debilitating and crushing. But at the same time, the fear, the the weight of success is immense. And, and some of it is because there are things you lose when you gain success. You lose friends, you lose people who are cheering you on. It’s amazing how many people will cheer you on when you’re failing and will cheer you on while you’re trying to succeed. But when you succeed, the pause stops.
EM (06:17):
You actually move through what I would call a transitional loneliness. When people would ask me, in fact, I got asked this question a few weeks ago. Somebody said, so, is it lonely at the top? Is it true that it’s lonely at the top? And I said, first of all, I take it as a great compliment that you think I’m at the top . I, I’ve climbed a really small mid-size hill , and there are massive hill Himalayan mountains behind me and of opportunity. But if I’ve achieved any level of the top, I can tell you I’ve never had more friends in my entire life. I’ve never had, I’ve had a, a more tight-knit beautiful community in my entire life. Hmm. So if I’m at the top, it’s not lonely here, but you know, where it was lonely, every transition I’ve had in my life where I left a level of living and decided to elevate to a different level of living.
EM (07:08):
Because in that transition, you lose the friends you had, but you don’t have the friends yet you’re going to have, and there is a, there’s a, a massive weight of aloneness, which is a part of the weight of success. And then what happens is when you become successful, you, I, I was gonna say people assume, but no, we end up assuming that our success validates all of our internal structures, while we may actually have some incredibly dangerous internal structures for failure, and they become self-destructive. And that’s why you see so many people at the pinnacle, their success crumble, their marriages and their children are AMAs. They’re depressed and even suicidal. And even people with billions end up taking their lives because the weight of success was something they were not prepared for.
RV (07:59):
Yeah. I mean, that, and that blows, that always blows my mind. There’s so, there’s so many implosions that happen in, again, all these different arenas, doesn’t matter of sports, whatever. So what are some of these internal limitations, right? Like, what, what are some of the most common ones? And you know, I very much empathize with what you’re talking about here personally, of going, you know, I was raised by a single mom. My dad left me when I was young, never knew him. And I think a lot of my ambition for most of my life was just trying to prove to myself that I was worthy of not being left. Yeah. And, you know, in some ways I’m very grateful for that. ’cause I think it drove me really hard, which I’m grateful for what it has led to. But I very much empathize with what you’re saying, that no level of success ever actually fills that hole.
EM (08:51):
Yeah, absolutely. Because sometimes we don’t know if we’re running from something or running to something. Mm-Hmm. . And so oftentimes success is coming. ’cause We’re running from something, we’re running from poverty. We’re, we’re, we’re running from this struggle of self-belief that we have no value. We’re running from all the people who told us, we’ll, never amount to anything. You know, we’re running from the fear of failure of being what we were. And then we actually think we were running to something. And one of the, I think, really important nuances is that success, wealth, power, position, fame, they’re all wonderful consequences or benefits of life. They are terrible intentions. And so when success becomes a driving intention of your life, or wealth or fame or power, it actually leaves you empty because it’s a terrible intention. Hmm. It’s a great outcome. Like, I’m, I’m all for, you know, having success or gaining wealth, or having influence or, or, you know, act gaining power that you can use to make the world better.
EM (09:59):
It’s just that when those are the driving forces of your life, they leave you empty because they never satisfy. And, and someone asks me, what do you do when you’ve lost like your a hundred million dollar company? And, and so how do you regain your purpose? And, and I told him, I said, one, your purpose should have never been in your a hundred billion dollar company. Mm-Hmm. Your purpose should always be focused on who you’re becoming, not what you’re accomplishing. And if your intention is about who you’re becoming as a human being, no one can touch that. And success and failure are irrelevant to your intention. They’re just outcomes.
RV (10:35):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think that, I love that idea that it’s more of, it’s a great, a great outcome, but a terrible intention. And when you, when you think about these shifts, you know? Mm-Hmm. one, one of the other things you talk about in the book is talent. Yeah. You said, you say talent is a hallucinogen.
EM (10:55):
I know. It’s a really hard thing to say that, that I, I shouldn’t have picked that word. I can’t even pronounce
RV (10:59):
It. Hallucinogen. It’s harder to spell than it is to say That’s true. I tried to spell it like 10 times. I was like, preparing, and I’m like, halluc, I, I don’t know. I can’t get it. But,
EM (11:08):
Well, you know, span Spanish is my first language. So hallucinogen is still a hard word.
RV (11:12):
There, . There you, there you go. But talk to me about the talent. You know, like, again, the book is called Mind Shift. Right? And that’s what I feel like that’s what you’re helping us do, is you’re helping us go almost like, don’t think this, think that. Yeah.
EM (11:26):
Why? So real quick, like, here’s some real quick summaries on my shift. ’cause Really my shift is 13 chapters of Red Bull. You can open up anywhere and you pop it open, you, you, you know, consume it quickly and it’ll explode in your brain. And one of the chapters that maybe the shortest chapter in the book is you are your own ceiling. It may be the shortest chapter, but it might also be the most important chapter. It’s about the mental shift from who is holding you back. And when we think that what’s holding us back is other people, the man, our past trauma, our parents, our, the abandonment we’re feeling you know, whatever it may be. Whenever you externalize blame for where you are in your life, you become powerless to change your life the moment you embrace. I am my own ceiling.
EM (12:13):
You know, I, I may not have wanted these things to happen, but I am powerful enough to respond to them. I’m in charge of my response. I’m in charge of how they shape me, and the person that I create myself to become. And then the moment you embrace that, it shifts everything you can. And you can listen to a person’s language when they’re always blaming someone else. They’re powerless to change their life. When they take responsibility for their life, they now are empowered to change. And then you mentioned the chapter Talent is the hallucinogen. Some people have the curse of talent. I did not have the curse of talent. I was not born with the curse of talent. But I know people who had the curse of talent. And my brother, I think, had the curse of talent in sixth grade. I think he was the fastest kid in the United States.
EM (12:59):
He was a, a superior athlete from day one. He was the high school quarterback, broke every conference record, had a full scholarship to play football. He’s also a brilliant, like a savant. He’s a genius. He and every arena, my brother was just naturally good at everything. So what happens when you have talent is people build external structures so they can actually access that talent. They don’t care about you. They care about the talent that’s inside of you. And so then you think you have the internal structure for success, but you don’t, you have external structures that actually protect that talent. So it can be accessed by those who want it. That’s why pro athletes, five years after they’re finished in the NFL, are divorced, drug addicted dead or bankrupt, because they were the most talented person in their schools from elementary to junior high to high school.
EM (13:55):
No one was as talented as them. So organizations built structures around them, access that talent all the way through college, all the way through the pros, the moment the structures are gone, wow, their lives collapsed. See, when you don’t have the curse of talent, you know, wow, I gotta find a different way to succeed. , you know, I don’t have natural talent. So you start working hard. You establish disciplines. You began to develop internal structures for success. Because I didn’t have any perceivable talent. I had to decide if I’m going to succeed, I have to take on certain patterns and disciplines that other people do not have. So what happened is that I created internal structures for success. And so when the world changes, when the environment changes, when the economy crashes, when you, you know, when a project goes south, I still have those internal structures.
EM (14:45):
And what I try to do in Mindshift is help a person realize, look, you may have talent, but talent is like a mirage. It makes you believe you will succeed without hard work. And so then when you fail, you move into a pattern of blaming rather than actually reframing. And when you understand that talent is just a hallucinogen, I’m so glad you have talent. I’m so glad you’re super intelligent, or that you have, you’re, you’re incredibly attractive, whatever it may be. But you need to realize you cannot build a sustainable future on talent. It has to be on the internal disciplines of, of mental structures.
RV (15:23):
Wow. Yeah. That’s powerful. That’s a, that’s a completely different, I mean, it’s a mind shift, a way of, of thinking of, of talent, you know, even as a, as a liability. You know, applying that specifically to the, to the people listening to this show that, you know, a lot of everyone who listens to this show is what we call mission-driven messenger. Right? Like, they have some calling to go, I wanna make the world a better place. And you, you are, you in many ways are, are what we aspire to become. You speak on the biggest stages with the most wealthy people in the audiences, the, you know, like the most in influential people. You mentor these folks. You’ve got books that are selling. What do you think are some of the mindset limitations, either that you’ve had to overcome or that you think other speakers and authors type, you know, coaches, consultants, that they have to overcome on their journey when they’re just starting out and they’re looking at, like, all the people on social media and all the bestselling authors and all the amazing speakers. Mm-Hmm. , what do you think are some of the, the mind set limitations in this space specifically? Yeah.
EM (16:35):
If you’re early on in the process, the two chapters you need to jump into right away are, you don’t need the applause. And no one knows what they’re doing. Those two chapters, I think are the most important chapters early on. And then I’ll talk about some other ones. But one, you don’t need the applause is really important. ’cause If you’re at the beginning of the journey, you, you need to make sure that your driving force is your own internal sense of accomplishment, rather than playing the game for the audience. Hmm. If you need people to celebrate you, if you need people to affirm you, if you need people to tell you you’re going to be awesome, you’re not going to succeed. And if I can put it in the book writing category, I can always tell when someone’s not gonna finish a book. Really? Yeah. It’s one thing.
RV (17:19):
Tell me
EM (17:21):
They write a page and they share it with everyone.
EM (17:26):
They write a chapter and they share it with everyone. Because you end up having the same endorphins of success when you share one page and people say, oh, I love the page. It was amazing. You such a great writer. Then you do when you finish the whole book, because now you’re living for the applause. You’re living for the affirmation of other people rather than this deep need to get this message out to the world. And so, one of the things I say right away is, do not become the prisoner of praise of applause, celebration. The other chapter, and there’s so much more we could talk about there, but I’m moving fast, is no one knows what they’re doing. You, you ever, ever,
RV (18:05):
Hold on a a second. I just before you, I can’t just let you go to this next one, . Just, I just, for, I have to feel, I feel like we have to just pause for a second. You said, do not be the prisoner. Say that again.
EM (18:17):
Oh, do not be the prisoner of praise. Yeah,
RV (18:20):
Man, that’s powerful. Irwin, like, because it’s like, praise is with everyone seeking. We’re seeking the likes, we’re seeking the shares, the comments, how many followers. And it’s like, we’re actually seeking the thing that makes us a prisoner. The, which means we, we perpetually are chasing after putting ourself in like a more strict jail cell, a tighter stronghold on our life that gets worse and worse and worse the more we achieve it. Because it’s like, we just become more and more, it’s like a high you get, you’re just chasing after it more and more and more.
EM (18:54):
By the way, that’s why incredibly famous people are so depressed. Oh. Because now, you know, when you were not famous, you were a prisoner of 10 people’s praise. But now you are famous and you’re the prisoner of millions of people’s praise.
RV (19:11):
Wow. I mean, that’s, that’s just, that’s powerful. I, I don’t, that’s just a, it’s a total mind shift to, to realize that maybe the very thing that you’re chasing could be the thing that you, is gonna make you a prisoner. You know? And for me, you know, I’m a hardcore bible thump of Jesus freak. Right. And so I’m always, I’m always internalizing things going. That could be God protecting you. Like the reason why he’s not giving you the fame is because he’s knowing like he might be protecting my, our hearts to go. You’re not ready to handle that. Like you said, that’s the weight, that’s part of probably the weight of success too. Anyways, so that’s really good. So yeah, the other one I love this is no one knows what they’re doing. And I totally, I’m a hundred with you on this. So like, tell, tell ’em about no one knows what they’re doing.
EM (19:58):
Well, whenever we start something new, we all feel like a fake , you know? And I mean, when I first started designing clothes, like my wife’s like, what are you doing being a fashion designer? You know? And, you know, what do you know about designing clothes? And I go, well, I know a lot about fabrics and I know a lot about textures and I know how things feel, and I know what they look like when they fall on your shoulders, just right. And I know what clothes looks like when it makes you look fat or fatter than you are. And when it makes you look slimmer than you are. And, and, and, but when I first started, I thought, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? I’m not Ralph Lauren. You know, I’m not Jerry Lorenzo. I’m not, you know. And so you always feel like you’re fake. You always, and you know, you don’t know. I’m going, I hope everyone knows I don’t know what I’m doing. You know? And, but I thought, I’m the only one doesn’t know. And I remember 10 years ago when I had a fashion company, I hired three guys that all had fashion degrees. And it took me about a year to realize they have no idea what they’re doing. And they have degrees, but they have less perspective, less sensibility. And I walked in one day and one of them was actually stealing all these patterns from another store.
RV (21:10):
Oh man.
EM (21:11):
And I, and I, and I go, oh, poor guy. He’s afraid to tell me that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Because as agree. And that’s why a lot of times we steal because we don’t know. We can create. And, and early on we have to go. Of course. I don’t know what I’m doing. You know, I, I’m learning. And when I started working in film, you can you imagine what it was like to be behind a camera as a director, going, I hope these actors don’t look at me and realize I have no idea what I’m doing. And, and very, very quickly realized, oh, directing is like, it’s like creating a culture. It’s directing is like being an orchestra conductor with human talent. And, and all of a sudden I discovered, oh, I, I love this. I like, I, I’m, I’m, I actually have like, skill.
EM (21:57):
There’s so many things that I’ve done in my life that when I started, I felt like a complete fake. I had this massive imposter syndrome until I realized no one knows what they’re doing. And so they do it, and it’s only when they do it. And that’s when I went nuts. Lemme tell you, I, I hired Navy Seals. I filmed under the ocean. I, I rented a helicopter. We took off the, the the door and filmed from the air on a scene. And I would just literally coach myself to do the most difficult things in the world. ’cause I thought the only way I’m gonna learn how to do it is by doing it. And it, it was so exciting to realize early on in my life, the best posture is being an amateur. Hmm.
EM (22:40):
Whenever you’re a novice, you’re just so fresh and it’s all so new, and you’re wide-eyed, and you’re curious and you’re teachable. And here I am now at 65, lemme tell you, I am a beginner. We were even saying that before we started the podcast. See, I, I just tell myself, Hey, you’re starting over again. You’re a beginner. You’re a novice. Start from, from scratch goes. You don’t know what you’re doing, but it’s okay. But no one knows what they’re doing when they start. And you only learn what you’re doing as you do it, as you step into it and as you fail. And that is the greatest freedom in the world when you’re starting. It’s, it’s just wonderful. You don’t know what you’re doing. Own it. It’s gonna be the only time in your life you’re gonna be this free from all the hardship of experience.
RV (23:22):
. Yeah. I mean, that’s one of my favorite quotes from and from Steve Jobs. And he says, your entire life changes the day. You realize the whole world is created by people who are no smarter than you. Mm-Hmm. . And like, that’s the freedom is to go. No one knows what they’re doing. Right? Yeah. Like, nobody, the first time they try to write a page in a book, and you’re like, I’m not an author. What am I doing? Writing? Like, I’m not a podcaster. I don’t even know what microphone to use. Like, and then all of a sudden you look back after just doing it and it’s like, I guess I am that
EM (23:52):
You know, where it’s most clear, Rory and more, most terrifying.
RV (23:56):
Tell me
EM (23:58):
We have one life. We get to live on this planet. Mm-Hmm. . And we didn’t get a warmup game. We didn’t have a preseason, we didn’t have training camp. We’re born into this world without any knowledge, and we only get one shot. And for me, when I realized, wow, the most important thing we have is life. And no one knows what they’re doing. You know, you’ve, you’ve never been five before, you’ve never been 12 before. You were never 16 before every single phase of your life. You were doing it for the first time without any practice at all. And that’s why it’s so important to develop mental structures that actually help you see life clearly. ’cause Every phase of life you move into, it’s your first time.
RV (24:51):
Yeah. Yeah. And y’all, this is, this is the handbook for this right. Mind shift. It doesn’t take a genius to think like one is the, is the subtitle. And that’s what I feel like Erwin’s given us this handbook for exactly how to get pa to, how to get past these limiting beliefs, how to defeat them, and how to install as an operating system, like a proper set of, of, of thinking that creates a paradigm that gives you purpose, that gives you clarity, that gives you confidence, that gives you the insight of, of knowing that you’re free to create. You’re free, you’re free to live, you’re free to love, you’re free to do these things. I do have one last question for you, Irwin. Before I give before the last question. Where do you want people to go to hook up, like sync up with you and learn more about what you’re doing?
EM (25:40):
Sure. the easiest place to go is erwin mcmanus.com. And there you can find out about what we do online with the arena, which is our online mastermind and find out about the books and all these other things we offer. Erwin mcmanus.com is the best place.
RV (25:53):
Love it. Okay. So we’ll link up to, we’ll link up to that. Obviously you can buy Mindshift, you know. Mm-Hmm. anywhere there are books. I did wanna let you go without talking about creativity and accessing our genius Mm-Hmm. , especially in recent years. I feel like you’ve talked more about this you’ve got other books on this, a lot of podcasts and stuff is what, what are some of the limiting beliefs we have to be able to move past in order to access our real creative genius in order to go to really build the things that no one else can build or to write or create the things that no one else can create? Talk to us a little bit just about how to get past that limiting belief on, on creativity and, and artistic genius.
EM (26:41):
Yeah. You know, I ironic, Rory, the first book I ever wrote is a book called An Unstoppable Force. I wrote it like 25 years ago. And in that book I argued that humans are intrinsically creative. That every human being is, is an artist, and that every human being has genius within them. So this actually isn’t a new conversation for me. Interesting. This has been my life long conversation. And I, and I fought it. I mean, I got fought really hard even within the, the world of faith. I had people telling me, Irwin, you’re telling everyone that every human being is creative. You’re putting undue pressure on people. I had one theologian telling me people, humans are like worker bees or worker ants, they just need a task and they’ll be happy. Mm-Hmm. You need to stop telling people that they’re creative. I was in New York at an event and I had someone in a Q and A get upset going, you’re trying to create anarchy if everyone believes they’re a creative who’s going to do the work?
EM (27:40):
And and I said, you know what? Ironically, that’s the same mindset that the slave owners had. If you set the slaves free, what’s gonna happen? And, and I said, really, we need to believe first of all, that every human being has intrinsic God-given creativity inside of them. That there is genius inside of every person. In fact, every study in the world lets us know that humans are extraordinarily adaptive at birth. And Rory, you probably don’t think of yourself as a linguistic genius. Like, you know, because I think you probably only speak English. And yet, mostly, mostly,
RV (28:20):
Yep.
EM (28:20):
Mostly. But when you were two, you learned the most complicated language probably in the world because you had to, you didn’t even know English was hard. And if they had moved you to Japan, you would’ve spoken Japanese or to the Philippines. You would’ve spoken tagalo when you were two to five. You were a linguistic savant. You were mentally capable of adapting to any language in the world. And you could have learned multiple languages if they had moved you to multiple environments. But we convinced ourselves that we’re, we’re actually not that, you know, I’m not good at languages. No. You learned all the languages your brain believed you needed. Oh, I’m not good at math. No. You learned all the math your brain believed you needed. And the reality is that when you go, oh, I’m not a genius. Well that’s ’cause you convinced your brain. You didn’t need to be a genius to live the life you’re choosing. And what I’m trying to help people is to reawaken the full capacity within them. And I think that most people live a suboptimal life because they do not believe they have the capacity for more. And I wanna destroy that mental framework and help people see there’s a lot more in them.
RV (29:36):
Yeah. That is it. I mean, they live a suboptimal life because they don’t believe that they, they have the capacity for more. Yeah. So much of that is our internal thinking. So much of that is controllable mind shifts we’re creating. Go get the book, everybody. Irwin, thank you for your wisdom and for your insight and your distinctions. And I think you, you just are such a magnificent source of inspiration and creativity. And I just think profound wisdom and you’re one of my favorite communicators on the planet. And I just, what an honor to have you and to have this conversation, man. We will be cheering for you. Always, always, always. So thanks for being here.
EM (30:19):
Thank you so much. And Rory, thank you so much for believing in my shift for all the work you and your team did for helping us break barriers in in the launch. That wouldn’t have been possible without you. So we’re really grateful for you.
RV (30:31):
It’s our pleasure, man

Ep 427: 3 Ways to Set Yourself Up for a Miracle | Tim Storey Episode Recap

RV (00:03):
Let’s talk about how to have a miracle in your life. . How do we do that? Let’s, let’s make it practical. I was so inspired by this week’s episode on, with Tim Story on the podcast. It was my first interaction with him. I’ve, I’ve heard of him for years. You know, lots of similar friends and stuff, but the first time we’ve ever directly, like, encountered, and I was so moved by so many of the things that he said, and I, I loved the, you know, he, he presented this question that was like, what could I do that would make this different, better, and more magical? And you can like, apply that to anything. Like what a beautiful transcendent question that you could apply to anything. Your, your, your, your wedding, your, your, your, your wedding, your relationships, your marriage, your with your, your relationship with your kids your house, your you know, your vacation, like where you’re sitting, what, what at any given moment, what could I do that would make this different, better, and more magical?
RV (01:06):
And that really got me thinking about how to prepare yourself for a miracle. Like how to set up the stage for a miracle to happen. And, and I don’t mean to suggest that you can just, that you’re in control of miracles in your life. I, I don’t suggest that. Like, I’m not saying that. And I, I think that God can move and can create miracles with or without us, for sure. I’m, I’m a hundred, I mean, I’m a deeply confident of that. But I also do think that there’s evidence, just like evidence in my own life exploration and then in scripture that would say that God is looking for willing participants. You know, there’s this old quote that says, God doesn’t call the qualified, he qualifies the called. And that he’s looking for someone who is willing to be an active participant in, in his story.
RV (02:05):
And that to me is, is what miracles are all about. So I wanna just share three tips, three ideas, three ways that I think will open you up to maybe be more likely to receive a miracle. I mean, who knows? But if, as I look back on my own life, I’ve had some pretty amazing things happen. I mean, in, in many ways I think of my life as a miracle. Like I think it is, it is a miracle to, to look at where I started my journey and to look at where the Lord and the people around me have led me to now. And I think of that as miraculous. I mean very, very unusual and, and, you know, divinely guided. And so, and, and I’ve had, you know, that’s on the whole, but I think I’ve had, I’ve had different versions of miracles in my own life and, and ones that I’ve seen.
RV (02:58):
So I just wanna share this ’cause I think it’s inspiring. And the first way to set yourself up for a miracle is to ask for a miracle to be willing to ask for a miracle, right? And, and I want to connect this to whether you, whether you believe in the divine or not, right? Let’s say for example, let’s say you don’t believe in the divine or the supernatural, or in God, even to me, absent that consideration, there’s, it’s, it’s pretty hard to ignore the, the, the ubiquitous nature of the power of goals and vision, right? Where people, you know, so many wealthy, successful people, I mean, there’s not a, I don’t think there’s a single ultra wealthy, successful person that I’ve ever met that doesn’t talk about the power and the importance of having a vision and like seeing something in your life, whether it’s the law of attraction or it’s, it’s Brian Tracy, or it’s, you know, pick your, pick your wealthy person.
RV (04:03):
It’s like, this is a common thing that people in a worldly way have in common, is they allow themselves to dream. They allow themselves to dream. And growing up around people who were more, we’ll say, lower middle class, lower class, you know, not maybe prob maybe not quite poverty, but, but close to it. And being around various environments of those types of people. I think I’m, I’m convinced at least in, in my own experience, that a lot of people don’t allow themselves permission to dream. They immediately write it off as impossible. And I know for my own life, the first time I ever said I’m gonna be a black belt, the first time I said that, that that was, IM impossible to me, right? I was, I was seven years old when I first had that thought. And I was like, that felt impossible. And then I remember distinctly the day I said, I wanna be valedictorian.
RV (05:04):
What, how, how, how amazing would it be if I could be valedictorian? I remember dreaming about getting a full ride scholarship. I remember being in elementary school, having this conversation with my mom about getting a full ride scholarship to college. I remember dream dreaming about being a record breaker in the direct sales company that I was involved in. I remember the first time I said, I’m gonna, I’m gonna win the world championship of public speaking. I certainly remember the first time saying, I’m gonna become a New York Times bestselling author. Not just once, but repeatedly, consistently in my life. I have pursued systematically things that have felt impossible. And so I understand why people have a hard time asking for a miracle. It seems impossible. And even out separate the divine for a second and go just in a worldly way, you go that I could never do that. That’s not realistic. That’s so unlikely. And yet, that is first and and foremost, the fundamental difference of the people who do achieve it and those who don’t. Right? I’m one of my favorite Steve Jobs quotes is where Steve Jobs says, your entire life changes the day that you realize that everything in the world around you was created by people who are no smarter than you.
RV (06:24):
I love that quote. I found that to be true in people like Steve Jobs in my own life. And in the people who don’t achieve the things that they want, they don’t ask for a miracle. They don’t allow themselves to dream. And so, in a worldly sense, I would call that goals envision, whether it’s for your relationship and your family or your company or your own physical health or your own finances to, to allow yourself to dream. Most people won’t do that. But here to go, what if you, the next level of that is ask for a miracle. And here’s something that you need to know about miracles. What makes it a miracle is the fact that it, it seems impossible. And that’s the magic of it. I think that’s why God wants to create miracles, is he wants to demonstrate his power. He wants to demonstrate his supreme authority.
RV (07:12):
And yet, in order for a miracle to take place, we have to ask for the impossible. If it wasn’t, if it wasn’t impossible, it wouldn’t be a miracle. If it weren’t unlikely to ask for, it wouldn’t be significant then when it came true. So how can you have a miracle if you don’t ever ask for one? If you don’t ever dream of one, if you don’t ever think about one, you can’t. You won’t. You, you, you’re not allowing yourself. You’re not opening yourself to the possibility of it happening. You are closing yourself off. You’re deciding upfront, you’re reaching a conclusion in advance that it’s not possible. And when you reach that conclusion, you shut the door on possibility, whether you think of it as divine or not. So the first thing to do to open yourself up to a miracle is to be willing to give yourself flexibility, permission, and grace to ask for a miracle.
RV (08:12):
The second way to create a miracle in your life, I think, to open up yourself for a miracle to tip the odds in your favor of achieving a miracle, is to walk towards a miracle, walk towards a miracle. There there is this old phrase that says, as you pray, move your feet. Right? And I love that it’s to go again, separate the divine for a second, and just think about it in a worldly way. You know, this is my, my main critique of the secret, which I, I don’t, I don’t struggle with the, the idea, the power of the secret of you. You know, you, you know, ask, believe, receive you know, I think that’s a really important part. But there’s a, you know, there’s a huge step missing in between there, which is, which is not really true, which is, is ask believe, work your butt off, and then receive, right?
RV (09:07):
That’s the real formula. So there’s all of that is true. It that’s just absent. I think a really critical part. There’s nobody that I know who said, I wanna be a New York Times bestselling author, and they sat in a room and thought that, and it happened, right? That doesn’t happen. There’s no one who has ever won the world championship of public speaking, become a, a, an eight figure entrepreneur, become a millionaire you know, built a great business, built a huge church, started a massive nonprofit, like, you know, become a professional athlete, been an amazing actor, like landed a huge music deal. We, we know people from all these walks of life, and not one of them achieved those things by sitting in a room doing nothing, not one. What they all have in common is they asked for a miracle, right? They, they, they prayed for it.
RV (09:58):
If they, and even, even if they’re not spiritual, right? They visioned it, they gold it, they, they, they thought about it, they dreamed, but then they worked like crazy. They walked towards the miracle. And all of their stories are fraught with rejection and setbacks and failure and feedback and just, you know, losses that shaped them and gave them information. And it shaped their character as a person. And it, and it shaped their, their information, their education as a professional to where they could bring those together and they could become ripe territory For a miracle, you have to walk towards a miracle. You don’t have to you know, Martin Luther King Jr. You don’t have to see up the whole staircase. You just have to take the, the take the first step. Like that is true. And one of the ways that I think about this on a, on a, on a divine level, on a supernatural level, is that I don’t think that God shows us the second step before we take the first step.
RV (11:12):
I don’t think that God shows us the second step before we take the first step. Why? Because I think God is looking for someone to bet, to bet on him. He’s looking for someone to open themselves up to receiving his presence in their life, to allowing his spirit to move in their life. He’s o he’s asking for us to be faithful. He’s asking for us to, to trust him. And how do we demonstrate trust? Do we demonstrate trust by saying, I trust you, or do we demonstrate trust through the action of actually doing something? It is, to me, it’s the latter. You demonstrate faith by actually moving towards the thing, not by sitting in a room and going, I hope this happens, but to say, to first ask for a miracle, to pray for it, or to vision it and plan it. If, if you’re in the worldly sense and not the divine sense, but then to move towards it, right?
RV (12:04):
You have to take that action. And I think of Noah building the ark. Like, you know, he, he, he’s there, there, God is blessing him because he’s looking for someone who’s willing to take action. Someone who’s willing to build an arc before there’s a raindrop, right? Someone who’s willing to gather these animals before there’s a raindrop. You have to be willing to take the first step before God will show you the second step. That’s, that’s just what I think, right? That’s just an observation. I don’t know that there’s necessarily scriptural support for that, but, but I think that there probably is. And, and, and you know, my life verses Hebrews 1211, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, rather painful, yet it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
RV (12:53):
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, rather painful. That’s the first step. That’s the action that’s walking towards a miracle. That’s saying, I wanna be a New York Times bestselling author. I’m terrified. I have no idea how to take that step. I wanna become a Hall of Fame speaker. I’m terrified. I have no idea how to get on those stages. I wanna launch a course. I wanna start a business. I wanna find yeah, I wanna build a family. I wanna start a nonprofit. I wanna solve this problem in the world. They, they’re all terrifying. They’re so huge and enormous the first time we have them. But you, you have to step towards them. And at first, you don’t know what to do and where to go, because it’s, it’s painful. You’re learning. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, yet later on, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who’ve been trained by it.
RV (13:38):
What have you been trained by? You’ve been trained by discipline. You’ve been trained by action. You’ve been trained by taking the step, getting the feedback, adapting, adjusting, and your faith is demonstrated in the fact that you continue walking without knowing exactly how you’re going to get to the destination. And in my mind, it’s a little bit like, it’s a little bit like saying, I see the destination, but I’m not clear on the path, but I’m willing to take the first step towards the destination without, without knowing where the whole path goes. That’s a demonstration of faith, that’s walking towards a miracle is to say, I don’t know how God’s gonna pull this off. I don’t know how I’m gonna pull this off. I don’t know how we’re gonna pull this off. I don’t know how you’re gonna pull this off, but I’m, we’re gonna try, we’re gonna move towards it.
RV (14:29):
We’re going to do what we can. We’re going to do every single thing in our power to try to make this happen. And most people aren’t willing to do that. And there’s this extraordinary payoff that you get when you take action. The extraordinary payoff that you get is that if that dream doesn’t come true, if that miracle doesn’t come true, then you know, it must, because be because God had some greater plan, some reason why it didn’t, which means it’s part of a, a better plan. But if you have a goal, if you have a dream, if you ask for a miracle and you don’t take the steps in your control, you don’t do the things that you can do, then you don’t know if the reason it didn’t come true is because God didn’t give it to you, or the miracle didn’t happen, or it wasn’t in your destiny, or because the more likely truth, which is that you didn’t show up and do your part.
RV (15:23):
You didn’t do the work. You didn’t make the work. You, you didn’t make the call, you didn’t make the ask, you didn’t show up, you didn’t practice, you didn’t train, you didn’t learn. You didn’t do the things that you know how to do. That’s on you, that’s on you, and that’s on me. So if we don’t get miracles, that we can’t be mad about miracles that we ne we don’t get, that we never asked for, and we can’t be mad about miracles that we don’t get, that we never worked for. Right now, a miracle inherently is God covering the gap, God covering the distance. But I don’t think it’s just God doing the whole thing. Certainly he can, he’s, he is able to do that. But there is evidence all throughout scripture that God is looking for a willing participant, someone to step towards him. That is the sign of faith. Not to just say, I believe you, but to say, I believe you and I act in alignment with that belief. And even if you don’t believe in the divine or supernatural, to me, that’s a miracle in and of itself. It’s a miracle in and of itself that somehow, some way all of us know what the next step is in almost any dream, any goal, any miracle. Somehow all of us know what a first step could be. But God doesn’t
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Show us the second step
RV (16:52):
Until we take the first step often. So you gotta ask for a miracle, step one, step two, you gotta walk towards a miracle. Step three, you need to read about miracles. You need to read about miracles. You need to, I think you need to be become educated on miracles. And to me, there is power in reading the Bible. There is power in reading the word of God, even if you don’t understand it. Even if you don’t believe it, right? Like and, and now, now I would tell you, if you’re gonna read the Bible, I would not start at the front of the book, which is the Old Testament. And in Genesis, I would go skip to the New Testament and start there and start reading about Jesus who was a human figure, a real person. There is so much documented evidence that Jesus was, was a real person.
RV (17:50):
And by the way, I am launching a whole dedicated podcast series on this called Eternal Life. Seven Questions That Every Intelligent Skeptic Should Ask About Jesus of Nazareth. And if you go to confident eternal life.com, confident eternal life.com, you can, that’ll take you to this special new podcast series that we have created, that I’ve created, that our team is launching. That is 15 episodes dedicated to my personal life’s journey. My, this would be my personal life’s work, not my life’s work from a career standpoint. ’cause It is totally not a moneymaking endeavor at all. But my personal life’s work studying the evidence, what evidence is there of Jesus and miracles? And it’s seven questions that every intelligence skeptic should ask about Jesus of Nazareth. And we look at the historical, the archeological, we look at the, the corroborating evidence, the documents that support, and we ask the questions like, how do we know Jesus was a real person?
RV (18:58):
How do we know he wasn’t just a good teacher in something more? What evidence is there that he was a deity of some type? What evidence is there that he ever resurrected from the dead? Right? We, we tackle these challenging questions about Jesus, who was someone who boldly made claims about being a deity. So that’s rare in and of itself right now, he’s not the only person to do that. Lots of people have David Koresh and lots of crazy people we talk about. We talk about that in. But the difference is he followed through on them. The difference is the things that he said would come true came true. The difference was many people who were not believers still witnessed unexplainable things happening. And even if they didn’t believe, they were not able to explain the things that happened and that were documented. So anyways, go to confident eternal life.com and check out, that’s a whole separate podcast series.
RV (19:49):
‘Cause It’s 15 episodes just related to the history and the, the academic logical scrutiny of the story of Jesus. But I’m telling you, if you read it and you dive into it, I mean, and you, and go listen to it, I mean, that’s me. That’s me taking basically 20 years of my personal life and consolidating it down into 15 short podcast episodes to share the best of the best of like what I found of the evidence. How could a rational, logical person believe in miracles and a savior and a messiah in heaven? How, how, how, how have I come to believe that? And that’s what we’ve taken the time to do with that special podcast episode. But I’m telling you, when you read it, you will learn about it. There is evidence, not just a little bit, an overwhelming preponderance of evidence, a, a gigantic mountain to where at the end of, at the end of my personal journey, at least for me, I started to realize it takes way more faith to not believe this stuff happened, happened than to believe that it did.
RV (20:48):
When you studied the evidence, the, the, the, the, the, the trail of provable and fa facts that we have a chance to corroborate, be given where we’re at in the timeline of human history and the tools that are available to us today. So anyways, you can check that out. But I think you should read about miracles. You know, and if you’re not comfortable reading a Bible or whatever you, you know, if you, again, if you’re new to it, I would say read the New Testament. Read about Jesus, right? and and don’t learn about, don’t learn about Christianity from watching Christians. Christians, we, we screw stuff up. That’s why we’re Christians, right? Learn. If you wanna learn about Christianity, you should study Jesus. And that happens in the New Testament, which is the books of Matthew, mark, Luke, and John, the, the people who were with Jesus or close to Jesus that were alive when He was alive, right?
RV (21:36):
And what those people wrote and said about what happened. But if you can’t, you know, if, if you’re not into the Bible or Christianity, I would say you still read about miracles because it helped read about read. And, and, and if it’s, and maybe it’s not even the supernatural, right? You go, well, I have some other faith or whatever. Okay, fine. Still though, read about miracles, read about worldly things that came true, read about other people who accomplished the impossible. Read, read Louis Zpr, Reini, I think Zini is the, the unbroken story. I forget how to say his last name, but incredible, right? Like, read that story unbroken, like read that book, read the books of and, and watch the movies of people doing impossible things. Why? Because when you learn about other people who have accomplished the impossible, it helps you realize that you could do it too.
RV (22:28):
That’s part of the power is when you go, it feels impossible to me. But wait a minute, that person did it and that person did it, and that person did it, and that person did it, and that person did it. And that’s just in a worldly way. I’m not even talking about the divine supernatural stuff. I’m talking about the stories of survival or overcoming the odds or even even sports stories or people overcoming physical disabilities you know, read about the Underground Railroad. Like these impossible things that humans have pulled off, right? Launching spaceships to the moon. I mean, there’s so many different examples of people achieving the impossible. The only way that you could sit around and say it’s not possible is, is because you’re oblivious and you’re ignorant to the fact that impossible things happen all the time. Not just supernatural ones, but worldly ones.
RV (23:22):
You just haven’t been exposed. It’s not that it’s impossible, it’s that it’s unfamiliar. It’s not that it’s impossible, it’s unfamiliar to you. It’s unfamiliar ’cause it’s never happened to you, it’s never happened to your family, it’s never happened to your homies that you hang out with. But it doesn’t mean that people aren’t doing impossible things all the time. Be around people who are doing impossible things. And you too will see that the impossible, quite literally is very possible for them. And once you see it happen to enough of the people around you, you believe it for you. Right? This last week we just had our 21 Brand Builders Group client become a New York Times Wall Street Journal, or u Ss a today bestselling author 21 times. And they’re not game the list, they’re not cheating stuff, they’re not buying their own books. They’re doing the hard ethical work of selling books and building an audience and serving people, right?
RV (24:11):
And they’re using every mechanism that we have available to show them how to get their message out to the world. It’s not fake bots and fake people buying books and some of those things. It’s legitimate. It’s doing the work, but they’re achieving the impossible things that they never thought possible. If you hang around brand builders group long enough and you go, you see the stories of 21 other people who’ve done it, you start to realize, Hey, maybe that could be possible. Maybe there is a system here, like maybe there, maybe there is a way that this comes true. And, and you may not care to become a bestselling author, but I’m saying hang around the people who are achieving the impossible. And if you can’t hang around the people who are doing the impossible, read about miracles, read about ’em, the more you’re exposed to ’em, the more you will realize. It happens all the time.
RV (25:02):
You are a miracle. Your life is a miracle. The fact that we exist on this planet, in this solar system, in this extremely delicate scientific balance that I is, is the, the odds defy all logic and rational thinking that we would have life on this earth and that we would exist, and that we of, you know, all the sperm that came out like in the world like that, that, that, that we were the people, we are the people who are here now living in this place, in this world. I mean, the miracle of birth, the miracle of nature, the miracle of the solar system like you are a miracle. We are living in a world of miracles. There, there are, there are things that are happening all around us. And even if you don’t believe in the supernatural, I mean, there is all sorts of miracles that happen on a daily basis. So you, you can be a miracle. You can set yourself up, you can open your life up to the possibility of receiving a miracle and being one of these people. But you have to be willing to ask for a miracle. You have to be willing to walk towards a miracle, and you have to read about or surround yourself with people who are achieving and benefiting from miracles. I hope we get to continue to be a place of inspiration for you in that keep coming back. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand podcast.

Ep 426: Having a Miracle Mentality with Tim Storey

RV (00:02):
Well, you’re about to meet someone that I truly admire. His name is Tim Story. I admire him for several reasons. Uh, first of all, he’s the bestselling author of several books, most recently, the Miracle Mentality that was published by Harper Collins. Um, but Tim is super influential behind the scenes with lots of the world’s, uh, famous people, high profile people. Um, now he’s been featured as a public guest on shows, you know, like Oprah Winfrey and interviewed by Steve Harvey in the Today Show in Good Morning America. He’s been featured in People Magazine. He’s also worked behind the scenes with people in their private lives. This is people like Charlie Sheen and Kanye West, and, uh, Charlton Hesston and Robert Downey, Jr. Jr. Like, um, this man is known for his heart and for his love and for his passion and his message. Um, and he also has become one of the biggest personal brands in the world.
RV (00:58):
He’s got millions of followers online. Uh, he speaks at several of the biggest events. He works with lots of the biggest companies in the world, and he’s an amazing humanitarian. He does all this humanitarian work, donates his books to refugees, um, and is just a really wonderful guy. And we’re actually just meeting for the first time. But he also is very, uh, you know, like me, he takes his faith as a very serious part of his life, uh, as a believer in God, thus the miracle mentality, which is why we had to have him here today. Tim story, welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast.
TS (01:35):
What a privilege, and thank you for that nice introduction,
RV (01:39):
. Well, buddy, I, I wanna just jump in with miracle mentality because I know that, you know, countries around the world are using this companies high profile executives, people in one-on-one coaching, and, you know, you’ve accomplished a lot as a personal brand of what a lot of the people listening hope to do one day. Um, so can you just tell us like, what is the miracle mentality? And, and start us off there. So,
TS (02:10):
As you know, a miracle is something extraordinary uncommon, not normal and not natural. And then the mentality, as you know, as well, is a state of mind. It’s a perspective, and it’s been set for probably a hundred years that your mindset is yours to set your mindset’s, yours to set. So growing up in Compton, California, we had seven people in a two bedroom apartment. Cramped. Crowded, okay. But one of the things that my mother had was a miracle mentality. Hmm. She always used to tell us things like this, like, we may be lower income, but we’re not lower class.
RV (02:51):
Amen. And
TS (02:52):
This is only temporary and we’re on our way somewhere. So she really created hope and expectation, even though we were in a cramped and crowded environment. So, as I got older and I got into church, into faith, I started hearing all these great stories about David and Goliath and Abraham having a, a baby with his wife, Sarah. And they were both very, very old. And it just began to build my faith and build my mentality into this miracle mentality. And I took it into deep, deep research and decided to write a book about it, and it’s working.
RV (03:31):
Mm-hmm. . So what do you think, why do people struggle to believe in miracles? It’s, uh, you know, I mentioned to you that for the last year I’ve gotten just captivated by this little project, I’ll call it, you know, these seven, uh, questions that intelligent skeptics should ask about Jesus of Nazareth. And one of the, one of the big disclaimers in there is that people struggle to believe in the supernatural. And I sort of talk about why that is, but I’ve never really discussed that with anyone else. So I’m really curious about like, what, why do you think we struggle with believing in the unnatural, the supernatural? Uh, talk to me about that.
TS (04:13):
Okay. So I think it’s, I think it’s two things, is that I believe that number one, the miracle mentality is innate. I believe that we’re we’re made in the image and likeness of God. And so inside of us, we believe in the miracle mentality. And I, and I know this for a fact ’cause I’ve been to 78 countries of the world.
RV (04:34):
Wow.
TS (04:35):
When I go to third world countries and I talk to little kids in Soweto, South Africa, and I say, what do you wanna be when you get older? And they’re five or six, they’ll say things like LeBron James or a little girl will say Beyonce. Mm-hmm. They never talk about they want to be something that’s less. They talk about miracle mentality, little girls. They may wanna have a party that includes unicorns, little boys. They wanna play with Superman, spider-Man, Ironman. They never wanna play with something ordinary. So I think number one, it’s innate. Secondly, it’s learned. I think the main reason that people lose the miracle mentality, Rory, is because of disappointment. Mm-hmm. They got disappointed. So they believed for something, they expected something, and it did not happen the way they thought it would. And the disappointment started to break down the miracle mentality.
RV (05:34):
So that’s a good question. Right. So how do you handle that? Right? I mean, I think that’s what, I think that’s what, when people hear about prayer, you know, they struggle with it. And, and you know, of course, like scripture and ancient scripture says like, you know, if you, you believe in me, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given to you. But then you pray for, you know, like I think of my wife aj. So my wife, who’s also my business partner, and she’s the c e o of brand builders group. You know, her mom got cancer when she was 15, and her mom prayed fervently, fervently for healing, had prayer chains, and yet her mom died. Right. Um, she, she lived longer than they expected, quite a lot longer, uh, like a year longer. Um, but it was, you know, that’s, that can be devastating to people’s faith. So how do you reconcile that? Right? How do you reconcile believing for the miracle, having the miracle mentality, but when the miracle doesn’t show up, this gap between those is disappointment.
TS (06:39):
Yes.
RV (06:40):
What’s the response there?
TS (06:41):
That’s a great question and something that a lot of people are that are watching right now, you feel, ’cause we’ve all been through different disappointments with belief, and then it didn’t happen. So I think that life is not black and white, that it’s most times gray. It’s like in the middle, like, why do bad things happen to good people? Or why do some people say they got healed to cancer and then someone else did not? So it’s, it, it’s not, it’s not black, it’s not white. It’s many times gray. But here’s what I believe. I think that even though the miracle did not happen the way we wanted it to, I think in the, in the form of healing, healing is a process. Some people are healed instantly, some are healed gradually. And in the Christian faith, we believe some people don’t get healed till they go to heaven, where there’s no more sickness, more tears, no more sorrow.
TS (07:42):
So, you know, we want the miracle on earth, but the, the miracle of everlasting life is still a miracle. But I, believe me, I want the miracle on earth. Hmm. So I would say to somebody as a spiritual leader and advisor, that that is frustrating, that is disappointing. But we still have to believe in miracles and believe that God is still able. And in the cases where it does not happen the way we want it to, we kind of just put that in a file that we say, at this point in my life, I don’t understand, but I still believe it’s almost like following your parents. There’s times that they gave you, um, guidelines or guidance or direction, and you didn’t understand it, but maybe at times you still followed, even though you didn’t completely understand. But I, I go through this thing where I say, you have to learn to believe in miracles and expect miracles and expectation is a very difficult thing for people. Again, because of the disappointment.
RV (08:59):
Yeah. So when you, when you say expectation Yes. What, what, what do you mean by that? And, and I do think the parallel, I, it helps me a lot. I, I feel like I’ve learned more about my faith walk than ever before by having children, because I understand like, sometimes they, they ask me for candy, sometimes I give it to ’em, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes it’s the right thing, and sometimes it would be damaging to them even though they don’t realize it. Right. Sometimes they want to tip back in their chair and they think that’s fun. But I I, I say, Hey, no, we’re not gonna do that because I’ve got, I’ve got a perspective that they don’t have. I’ve got a foresight that, that they don’t have. Yeah. And, and then, but then, you know, how do you continue to have that expectation where you ask, and maybe you’re let down and maybe that happens again and again. Or like you pursue your whole life pursuing a dream, and then you don’t get it. Right. You don’t get to the, you don’t get drafted in the M B A, you don’t get the call from the record label. How do we keep expecting then?
TS (09:59):
So I think the expectation has to be based on something. Okay. Okay. And so, like for instance, I was at a friend’s house and, um, I had forgotten something and he said, let’s just order it on Amazon Prime, then it will come the next day, . And at that point, I didn’t know what Amazon Prime was, that it was next day. And so at a certain time he opened the door, and there it was, there was a box. So based on the fact that they say they’ll deliver by this time, he opened the door expecting for it to be there. So in the realm of faith, biblically there are promises of God. And based on those promises from God, then we are allowed to have faith and expectation based on those promises. Okay. And so there’s an interesting scripture in the Bible, Proverbs 1211. It says, he who works his land shall have abundance, which is a lot, but whoever chases fantasies lacks wisdom.
TS (11:11):
And so, uh, a fantasy is something that does not have substance to it. And so sometimes people are chasing fantasies and they think that’s faith. But I think that it has to be based on something, whether it’s a promise that God gave you or a scripture that God gave you, or a knowing as, or as o Oprah Winfrey says, uh, aha moment where you have a download. And I think you’ve had that in your life where sometimes all you had was like a word from God, and you moved on that word from God and it worked. And so you, you based it on something you felt like you heard from God and you stepped out in faith.
RV (11:59):
How do you know, how do you hear the difference between God’s prompting Christ, what Christians would call probably the whole, the Holy Spirit? How do you know the difference between that and like a crazy idea or a fantasy or just you, you know, like how do you discern, which it’s like the voices inside my head, right? How do I discern which voice is the voice I should be listening to? Which voice is which voice is the one that guides me towards the miracle?
TS (12:33):
Yeah. Phenomenal question. So in the eighties, I wrote a book called Good Idea versus the God idea. Hmm. Good. Or is it God ?
RV (12:46):
Yeah.
TS (12:47):
And Good can be good, but God could be better. So there’s a scripture that says, trust in the Lord with all your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding, but in all your ways, acknowledge him and he shall direct your path. Okay, how so? I teach a very simple thing. We need to stop, we need to look and we need to listen. And then the Bible says, my sheep, they know my voice. Hmm. Now, when your wife calls you, even if she had a cold, you could recognize her voice. Is that correct?
RV (13:26):
Yeah. Mm-hmm. ,
TS (13:27):
If she coughed in the middle of the sentence, you’d go, that’s her .
RV (13:32):
Yeah. Uhhuh .
TS (13:33):
So the more you have a connection with somebody you can understand and know their voice with more clarity. Hmm. And the way I teach people is we have to stop, meaning we become human doings rather than human beings. We need to look to God and have a lion alignment with him. And then we need to listen. And that listen is that quiet, whether it’s meditation, whether it’s prayer, driving in your car, in the shower, in the ice bucket, uh, in the mornings, however you do things. But really that quiet time. Think about this in your own personal life. I bet there’s some times where you’ve got some really cool downloads by just stopping looking and then listening. Mm-hmm.
RV (14:26):
. Yeah, for sure. I mean, um, there’s no doubt about it. I’m, I’m always a big fan of that old saying that when you, when you, when you pray, you talk to God. And when you read the Bible, he talks to you. And I’ve, I’ve found that to be the thing that the number one, the number one way for me is just like when I’m listening to God’s word, like literally on my phone, listening to it out loud, like, like a voice, you know, reading of, of it or reading the word. That seems to be where I hear most clearly. Which to your point, it’s like, you know, you’re, that’s when I’m closest to God. So the voice is a little, uh, clear. I, I love that. I, I I love that illustration of, of being that I’d like to
TS (15:08):
Add, I like to add something to that because I think that one thing I think that you’ll enjoy about my type of teaching is that, uh, I don’t think everything is like, just an absolute. And I feel that stop, look and listen, that’s part of it. But also in the Bible it says there’s wisdom in the multitude of counselors. Mm-hmm. . So before I make a big move on something, like I have some projects that are, I would consider like bigger moves for me, I go to people that I feel like I can trust and because I have blind spots, ’cause I’m within myself, and they may say, Tim, I like this, but you already got three things going on over here. Mm-hmm. , I like this, but he sure. It’s the timing. So I think that, you know, we gotta hear the voice, but we definitely have to check it with people that we believe are also hearing from God. Mm-hmm.
RV (16:02):
. So what’s the biggest thing you’ve ever believed that actually came true?
TS (16:09):
I think that, uh, Oprah Winfrey, who’s become a phenomenal friend, like we’re real friends, we were sitting in her backyard one time and she said, at what point did you know you were Tim Story? And I said, at 10. And she got very emotional. She said, about the same age for me. And she said, what did that look like? Because you have to understand, we were lower income. My mother worked at Windshield’s Donut Shop, my father died when I was 10, but he was just a guy who went to 10th grade and worked at Bethlehem Steel. And someday I would go to 70 countries, speak to 85,000 people by the time I was 28 and get a doctorate in World Religion, a master’s in therapy. I mean, who would’ve thought that when I was this lower income kid at 10? But man, I just knew, I knew that. I knew that I knew. And I think that most of you guys that are watching right now, if we asked you at what age did you know you were supposed to do something fantastic or that was supernatural, it was supposed to happen, you could probably give me an age. So at 10 years of age, there was a knowing I didn’t know how I was gonna get there, and I didn’t know exactly what it was, but I knew I was gonna have big impact. I really did.
RV (17:36):
Mm-hmm. , I, I think, you know, I I, I wish I could recite the exact study, but I remember reading a study that was about, you know, successful people and they, they were looking for common characteristics. And they that the most, if I, if I recall it was the number one most, uh, the, the, the number one thing they all had in common was that they believed they were supposed to do something great. Yes. And they, they somehow had that. What if someone has never had that belief yet? Like what if, you know, they’re sort of listening and going, you know, I don’t, I don’t, I can’t pin, I can’t pinpoint, I can’t pinpoint that moment. Um, you know, but like, uh, is is there anything that you would say to them?
TS (18:28):
Yes. So I think Dennis Waitley said it close to the way I say it in the eighties. So I always like to cite people, but I talk about how we learn through education, conversation, and observation. Hmm. And one of the things I do with inner city kids is I take ’em to places that they’ve never been before. So if they live, like in a inner city in la, I might drive them to Beverly Hills and let them see Rodeo Drive, because that’s an observation of something bigger than themselves. Hmm. Or will take groups of kids to Disneyland because they’ve never seen Tomorrow land, frontier land. They’ve never seen anything like this. Right. And so I think that if you don’t know what you’re supposed to do through education of even watching documentaries through conversations like the one we’re having right now together, and through observation, it will stir up that thing that’s already been there. ’cause I believe it’s already doggone inside you. Mm-hmm. . So what, what you were supposed to do was in you while you were in your mother’s womb. And so it was in you before the foundations of the world, Ephesians two 10 says it was there, the pathway has already been paved. Now you just have to be in alignment to your assignment.
RV (19:57):
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And I, I, you know, I think about my own life. I remember being in sixth grade the first time, a and we were in the gymnasium and a speaker walked out and they were speaking, and it was like, man. And that, it was like, in that moment I was like, oh my gosh. Like this is, I’m supposed to do that. And, and it’s, I’ve never heard it said, I mean, there’s so much power in the observation. I mean, it’s, it’s interesting. When AJ and I first moved to Nashville mm-hmm. , we, we lived in this, this part of town called East Nashville, which was like, you know, the up and coming part of town in 2010. And one of the things that we did was we drove down, um, you know, this very famous street in Nashville, which was like all these huge houses in the whole area.
RV (20:42):
And then when we sold our company in 2018, we moved to that exact area. And it’s like, the awareness of it is a lot. And it’s, it’s, it’s almost like seeing it, you know, seeing somebody else do it, it makes it so much more real, so much more possible. Like the, the belief barriers that we set in our own minds, the, the limits that we set are exploded by by things you can go witness. I mean, I’ve never really thought about the power of just go and be in the environment, but like, I have that a lot nowadays. Like, you know, like Ed Millet, we were talking about him before seeing the response that his audience had during his book launch. Like blew my mind. Right. I had just never seen anything. And to be on the inside of like, what that looked like, it just raised my belief level by simply being an observer and just being around what was going on.
TS (21:34):
100%. And, um, there’s so much power in the site and as you know, biblically it says seeing those things that are not yet as though they are already. And so when you begin to project and you begin to see by faith, uh, but again, I think you saw your life before it started to manifest and, um, that we get these glimpses of, of what we should be doing. And part of it, yours was seeing a speaker, but then other things, seeing a house, seeing a neighborhood. And, uh, I’ve been fortunate enough to be, uh, mentored by a man named Quincy Jones for the last 36 years. And to be around Quincy Jones is pretty cool because he worked with anywhere from Frank Sinatra to Michael Jackson. And, uh, they just celebrated his 90th birthday the other day, the Hollywood Bowl. But, you know, in seeing what this man has done from coming from where he came from, has helped me to see that if he could do it, I could do it. If he could do it, I could do it. If he could do it, I could do it. So that’s very, very helpful.
RV (22:54):
Mm-hmm. , the, um, do you think, you know, you and I share a Christian faith here and we share a source of truth that’s, you know, very, very clear. Like you may not, someone may not agree with the Bible, but you know, it is clear on on what it says if someone doesn’t have a clear faith yet. Right. If they don’t associate, do you think it’s necessary that they have a specific faith in order to access this miracle mentality? Or like, you know, is it available to anyone or, or, you know, how do you, how do you tap into it if you, if you don’t have kind of like a churchy background, so to speak?
TS (23:34):
I think, I think I wanna say that, um, if someone does not have a faith background, I could see your point. ’cause I think that a lot of the representatives, um, of faith have not always brought like, clear messages by who they are, how they talk, how they do business. So I don’t blame anybody, but I would say again, that the miracle mentality is innate. ’cause even if you don’t have faith, I still believe you’re made in the image of God. And there’s something inside you that says different, better, more magical. And that’s my, my famous story about Walt Disney. He walks into an amusement park in the 1930s and he said, someday I’m gonna build my own amusement park, but mine’s gonna be different, better, and more magical. I’m trying to tell you, every one of you that are watching right now, at one point in your life, you thought different, better, and more magical. Hmm. Whether that’s because of faith, religion, or just what’s in you innately. But I would, I would say to you, step out in who you’re supposed to be different, better, and more magical. And then if possible, open yourself up to the supernatural realm because it’s pretty powerful.
RV (24:52):
Yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s really, really beautiful. And it, when you, when you, if you grasp hold and you do kind of take ancient scripture that says that you’re created in God’s image, it certainly is a lot of, there’s a lot of power there. Uh, you know, at your access. You know, if, if there’s,
TS (25:09):
There’s no doubt about it. And the more, the more I like to study, like, um, all these documentaries, like I was watching one on David Bowie. I mean, I, I watched ones that my inner city friends were like, would be like, why did you watch that one
RV (25:22):

TS (25:23):
Interested in human beings? And this dude had like a miracle mentality and he wasn’t into like religion or like Jesus Christ, but he just knew he was David Bowie. But I, I personally believe, again, ’cause he is made in the image of God and that side of him was thinking different, better, more magical. I mean, little kids, man, they just, they wanna rise.
RV (25:53):
So another another thing that I think is pretty amazing about you. There’s, there’s so, so much in, in your, your life story, but, uh, you’ve done stuff with the Dalai Lama and you, you get into a lot of conversations and a lot of circles where it’s like normally you wouldn’t like maybe have a pastor there having that conversation. Um, how have you balanced, you know, like when it comes to like building your personal brand and your public profile and making money from speaking and writing books and those things, how do you balance this strong conviction of your, your strong personal conviction of faith and a source of truth with a respect of other people who maybe don’t believe what you believe and how are you bold, but you know, kind of compassionate and like, you know, not hiding or, you know, not apologizing for what you believe, but you, you know, like, talk to me about that balance.
TS (26:56):
Yeah, I think that in the Bible that says that you are like an epistle read by men. Like, so if you’re walking around and you’re a Christian, that where you go, it’s like people are reading you. Another way of saying it is that you can walk around like a billboard. So a lot of my strength is not in what I say, but the spirit in which I walk in. So your buddy, my buddy Lewis house. Yeah.
RV (27:30):
Uh,
TS (27:30):
He did a documentary and Thank you Lewis for putting me in that documentary so much. And Jay Shetty was there and some other people, and one of the big influencers was there. And he shook my hand and we know each other. And he, he told his friend, he goes, every time I get around Tim’s story, I feel like this weird supernatural piece come on me. , the other guy goes, crap, you’re not even joking. And then someone else overheard and they go, I’m not even joking. So I, I’m telling you, I hear this all the time that, that Tim walks in this supernatural piece and I really do mm-hmm. Ed my lead. And other guys will say like, Tim can see a fire like starting and just slowly look down and go like, you know, guys, there’s a fire. We should take care of that
RV (28:24):
. Oh.
TS (28:27):
But I really believe that, number one, I’m a chill dude anyway, but he will keep you in perfect peace of your mind is state on him, meaning God. And so my strength, whether I’m around the Dalai Lama or P Diddy or Jay-Z or whoever is, I’m not always talking Bible stuff. I’m just owning the gift and the life that God gave me. Hmm. And I’ll tell you man, I work with as you know, so many celebrities that are so far from the things of God and then get so close to the things of God just by somebody breaking it down and making it realistic. Mm-hmm.
RV (29:11):
, I wanna I wanna ask you one final question on, on that. Um, before I do that, where should people go, Tim, if they want to learn more about you and connect with you, obviously we’ll link to Miracle Mentality, that book, but where else would you point folks
TS (29:28):
And thanks, I think old school, go to tim story.com. I like what my boy Derek did on our website, so tim story.com and then on Instagram. I’m Tim, story official.
RV (29:41):
Thank you. Yeah. That’s so great. Well, um, and then if somebody is listening right now Yeah. Who is struggling with an addiction mm-hmm.
TS (29:56):

RV (29:57):
Or is in that dark place going, going, struggling with, you know, a marital affair got laid off from their job. You know, if, if they’re not anywhere near this space and this supernatural peace that you’re talking about, but they’re instead overwhelmed with anxiety and depression and fear and worry, um, what, what would you, what would you leave that person with?
TS (30:27):
Yeah, I, I would say number one, don’t put yourself down. So, um, a lot of clients I work with are famously on T M Z and people will say, man, you, I know you work with that guy or that lady, she’s still not fixed. Uh, I don’t think we ever all get cheered. I think we get better. So don’t put yourself down to for where you’re at, but what needs to happen is somehow you need to become awake. These are the steps of a comeback. You have to become awake somehow. The second thing you have to take inventory, like, where is my life really? Like what is this addiction doing? Or what is this affair doing in my life? Or getting caught in the fair or not getting caught? Uh, so you have to become awake, you have to take inventory number three, you have to partner with the right people. Hmm. So that’s what you’re doing today on this podcast. You’re partnering with people who actually care and we’re giving some clear answers. So you partner with the right people, but then you need the right principles in your life. And so we’re talking a lot about principles and so become awake, take inventory, partner with Right people, get the right principles and it’ll get you right back on the right path.
RV (31:41):
Yeah, man, I love it. Well, thanks for the inspiration and the reminder of the supernatural and the divine that lives in all of us. And, um, just the confidence that the miracle mentality is something that is available to all of us at any moment and that that can be something that transforms our life. So we’ll be praying for you, my friend, and cheering you on, and, uh, we wish you the best.
TS (32:05):
What a privilege. Thank you. .

Ep 417: 3 Tips To Help You Uplevel your Instagram Game | Chelsea Peitz Episode Recap

AJV (00:02):
Do you want to know how to be better on Instagram? Well, I’ve got three things that are gonna help you do just that, and I’m gonna make this as short and sweet as humanly possible. But I just wrapped up an amazing conversation with a newer friend of mine at Chelsea Peitz, and I had Chelsea on the podcast, the Influential Personal Brand podcast, and we were having this conversation about how many people are like, how to just, whatever I do, it doesn’t seem to be working and Instagram’s not for me, and I keep trying this video content, but it’s, you know, no one is liking it, it’s not getting an engagement. So how do I be better at Instagram? Like, how do I be better on this platform? So here are the three takeaways that I think are really helpful and tactical that will allow you to actually take some movement immediately into actually being better on the platform.
AJV (00:55):
Number one is you have to know how the algorithm works. And it’s very simple. The algorithm rewards you when you spend more time on the platform. Surprise, right? It’s not a secret, but we, we think it’s this mysterious thing that we can’t figure out. And the truth is, now it’s quite simple. They reward you when you spend more time there. And the most time that you can spend there is an engagement, right? So it’s responding to comments, it’s communicating and engaging in the dms that matters. It’s not just the content you post and how many people see it, but it’s how much time are you spending on the platform and how much time are you engaging others on the platform? Because if you’re engaging with others on the platform, then you’re both spending time here. So if you’re doing that with lots and lots and lots of people, then you’re bringing more and more people back to the platform, and it’s gonna reward you for that then, because it knows that you’re spending time there and you’re bringing other people there.
AJV (01:56):
So it’s not just about posting content, it’s not just about great content. Those are prerequisites. It’s not just about consistency. Those are expectations. Now, now it’s rewarding. It’s like, well, how much time are you spending? Right? This, these are businesses, you know, like Meta is a business, a very successful high revenue business. So they’re in the business of making money. And when you spend time on there, ad revenues go up and more money comes in. So that is it, it’s simple. That doesn’t mean we have to like it, but it’s more time on the platform is how the algorithm works. So spend more time in engagement and comments and dms. And the other parts are prerequisites. You have to be posting consistently. It has to be good content, it has to be searchable and findable. Those are prerequisites. Now it’s how do we go from here?
AJV (02:47):
And it’s more time on the platform. And what I love what Chelsea said, she said, the most important conversation is the communication that you’re having on the platform. So that’s the first thing. Second thing is don’t forget that there are some things, tactical things that you can do to become more findable and more searchable. So don’t forget that Instagram, like all other social media platforms, is a search engine just like Google, just like YouTube it’s a search engine. People are going there, searching for things, entertainment, education relationships, engagement, whatever. But there, it’s a search engine. So you have to be findable, you have to be searchable. And there are two searchable fields on your profile that allow you to be more findable. One is your handle, right? So it can’t be, you know, jogger 1, 2, 3, underscore 2023. It can’t be it, right?
AJV (03:48):
You have to be findable. So as much as usually humanly possible, use your name, right? Mine is AJ Vaden. So it’s like, get as close to your name as humanly possible. But that’s what people are finding. It’s like I type in people I meet all the time and they’re like, oh yeah, just find me on Instagram. And I assume, oh, it must be your name since you said, go find me on Instagram. When it turns out, it’s like, no, it’s, you know, I can’t even think of one right now, but it’s like, you know you know, sassy Saysso. And I’m like, well, who, who the heck is sassy? I dunno who that is. So you gotta be findable, right? So that’s the first place. And then the second is where your name goes, right? So it’s your profile and then it’s your username, right?
AJV (04:35):
So it’s like your handle. And then it’s like, what is the actual name? So like where that is if you’ve got the blue chip, then you’ve got to, you also have something that’s legally identifiable on your license. So my legal name, , I don’t know if you knew this is not aj, it’s Amanda. So I had to come in there and put in a little bit more information. So it’s Amanda Johns Vaden Little Space Brand Builders Group, because it’s different than my handle, which is AJ Vaden, which is what I’ve gone by since age 10, but it’s not my legal name. So I’ve got my legal name, Amanda Johns, and then Brand Builders Group, because that’s what I wanna be associated with. That’s why I wanna be identified with, if people are searching for Brand Builders group or aj or in this case Amanda, which no one is doing that, but I want everything to be fined and coalesced together.
AJV (05:23):
So those are the two fields that are searchable. And then the rest of the information in that profile section is helpful, but it’s not searchable, right? So once somebody finds me or finds brand Builders group then it’s like, is this someone I want to follow someone I wanna look at their content, someone I wanna engage with? And I make it very clear like, this is what you’re gonna get from me, and here’s my call to action of how to engage with me off the platform. Those are all really helpful things. ’cause We’re not trying to build our audiences just on social media, right? Social media to us that it’s an advertising vehicle. But what you really wanna do is you want to move this relationship off of social media and into your email list or to a blog subscriber or a podcast subscriber.
AJV (06:10):
But we’re not trying to only access this relationship on the social media platform. We also want to have them on our platform so that relationship can be more intentional, more meaningful, more direct, right? So you gotta have your handle, then it’s like what you choose to put in that username category. So, you know, it could be what you do. In my case, it’s the name of the company. And then underneath that, it’s like, what’s gonna appeal to the audience I’m serving? And then what’s the call to action to engage with me off of this platform? So your profile section is actually really helpful and mostly it’s helpful in making you searchable. So make sure you capitalize that space as much as humanly possible. And then last but not last the importance of video content. Not everyone is gonna love that we’re talking about this yet again but video is favored and preferred on all platforms, not just Instagram.
AJV (07:05):
And so this is something that we do have to learn and we do have to be better at if we want to have this component of, you know, social media. If we want social media to be a component of our lead generation, customer acquisition, employee retention, customer retention. But this is marketing, this is awareness. This is the game that we’re in. This is how we reach people today, and we do it with valuable content. We do it with relationship and engagement. And those things can happen at scale all across the world. It’s not a bad thing. To have this opportunity and access, we just have to know how to use it in the right way. So a couple of quick tips for creating video content. Short and sweet. Save the best for first. You don’t need to introduce yourself at the beginning of every video.
AJV (07:53):
People know who you are for the most part, they’re following you if they’re engaging with you. That can be found in the captions below, that can be found later out later on. But they need to know, what am I gonna get from this short video, right? So we need to start with the best content we have. And so we need to lead with, you know, wanna know how building a personal brand’s gonna double your income in the next 12 months. I bet you do then go into the content, but you want to start with a little bit of that marketing pitch. It’s like, yeah, it’s like, I believe that you’re building your personal brand can double your income in the next 12 months, and I’m gonna tell you three ways we can do that, right? Or maybe you’re in the dental business and you’re going, Hey, do you still have metal crowns in your teeth?
AJV (08:39):
Wanna know why those are linked to X, Y, and Z? It’s like, yeah, I do. If I have metal in my teeth, I wanna know that. So it’s like, start with those headline statements. It’s always helpful to start with a question or a provocative statement, a fact, a statistic. But you wanna start with something that’s gonna catch someone’s attention. This is where that catchy marketing lingo is really helpful in your favor, but you wanna give people what they’re gonna get right up front, and you wanna save the best for first. Then you wanna make it short and sweet, then you wanna tell people, if you wanna learn more, here’s where you go. Right? That’s where you continue the relationship, continue the engagement. Other quick things, and these came from Chelsea. I thought these were so helpful in our conversation, .
AJV (09:22):
And if you’re watching this then you can see what I’m doing. If not, I’m gonna explain it. But don’t forget that if you’re like using your camera to film, it’s like you can just move your arm and get different angles, right? So it’s, I can start here and then here and then here, and then here, and then here. And it’s like all of a sudden you’ve got a multi camera angle shoot by just using your iPhone. But movement matters. It catches the attention, it breaks things up. If it’s just my little head in a tiny little box and there’s no movement happening the whole time just like this. We, we kind of get distracted kind of easy. Like we, we don’t have high attention spans today. And so we’ve gotta keep it engaging. That’s why it needs to be short, and there’s gotta be some interaction.
AJV (10:06):
Also if it’s your tiny head in a box, you can’t use your hands like I’m doing right now, which also really helps with the engagement factor. You can see when I’m getting excited or when I’m slowing things down those things matter. The other thing is that you’ve got to have captions that everyone listens to everything on audio they read. So having the captions makes a big difference, not just because you have some people in your audience who are hard of hearing, but because many people are walking through the airport or sitting in their cubicle at work and they’re not supposed to be maybe listening to things aloud, but they can be reading, they can be scrolling. And so it’s paying attention to the multifaceted ways of going. Like, we need movement, we need sound but we also need the words.
AJV (10:48):
And that’s easy. It’s all built into the platform that allows you to do that. Now, last but not least, this is the last thing. It’s don’t forget that you don’t have to create every single ev every single piece of content that you make. Now, original content matters a lot because it’s your story and everything else has already been said except for your story. So tell your story. No one else has your unique personal experiences, life stories only you do. So tell the thing that no one else can give the ideas and the examples, the only you can because they’re yours. But that’s not the only thing that you have to create content about. And you can vary it up so it doesn’t feel so overwhelming, like, oh, I have to come up with this brand new stuff every day or every week. No, you don’t. You can come up with it as it feels good and original to you, but don’t forget, every single day you get asked a certain amount of questions that you know the answers to. Could you share that content in a video? Don’t forget, every single day you ask questions
AJV (11:52):
That you need answers to once you get ’em. Could that be a piece of content you share with your audience every single day? You go places you see people, you have experiences, you encounter interesting or weird moments. Can other people relate to those? Does that create the human element that you need? Does that create relational value where somebody else can go, huh, me too. That happened to me today too. Like, I’m so glad I’m not the only one. Or I can’t believe this had happened to somebody else before. I thought I was the only one. Right? And it happens at both levels. And so don’t forget, you don’t have to create every single piece of content based on your original content, although that’s helpful and important and valuable, but there’s also everyday moments that we all experience all around us that allow you to create that human relationship online where someone else can go.
AJV (12:48):
Me too, me too. So if you wanna be better at Instagram it doesn’t take, it’s not rocket science, right? It doesn’t take a neurosurgeon to figure this out. But it does take some time and effort and intention if you want to do it. And it’s not for everyone. So don’t feel like you have to. And I think that’s a big takeaway. It’s like, if this is not the platform of choice for you because your audience doesn’t live there, skip pass, go move on. Don’t worry about it. These, there is no like rule of like, this is what you have to do to be successful. You do not have to have millions of followers to have a, a massive impact on lives that you are touching. You do not have to have viral videos to make a difference. You, you don’t just focus on the one, focus on engaging and building relationships just like you do offline, right? It takes time and work to build relationships in, in real life in person. It takes the same amount of work online. So don’t forget that time matters and it takes time to make this work. So there you have it. Here’s how to be better at Instagram with three quick tips that you can start doing today. See, you.

Ep 415: Questions to Ask to Help You Find Your Why | Bianca Olthoff Episode Recap

RV (00:03):
Resilience, grit, determination, perseverance. Why do some people have it? And some people don’t. Why is it that some people can barrel through walls and overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles and other people can’t get the motivation to get outta bed or keep going Sometimes? What is the difference? And that is what we’re gonna be talking about on today’s episode. I’m gonna share three ideas to help you be more resilient. And this was inspired from my conversation with Bianca just here recently about adding more grit to your life and how personal brands can develop that kind of grit and perseverance. And Bianca’s a new friend of mine, she’s Jasmine Star’s sister. We got to meet through Jasmine. And I’ve really enjoyed meeting her. And just the conversation inspired me to, to, to stop and say, I wanna put together specifically one tactical tool right here, right now that would help you immediately become more resilient, immediately become more perseverant.
RV (01:11):
And I call this first technique, or this is gonna be the, the main technique of this lesson is 30. What questions to help you find your why 30, what questions to help you find your why. So we all know that having a why is really important in an episode not that long ago. I talked about kind of a refresher of something I said in the Take the Stairs book, which is that discipline becomes dormant in the absence of a dream. Discipline becomes dormant in the absence of a dream that we, we wanna leverage long-term vision to endure short-term sacrifices. So the amount of our endurance, our perseverance, our resilience, our grit, whatever word you wanna use for this is directly proportional to it, to the clarity of our vision, the, and the clarity of our why. And one technique is to get really clear on, on the vision of what you want, which is actually to create a picture.
RV (02:12):
And I’ve talked about that before, but today I wanna talk about finding your why specifically. And I’m gonna give you 30 what questions to find your why. Because what I have found is over the course of my life and my career, that a lot of people struggle to find their why, so to speak. They, they struggle to boil it down. And yet when we give them these specific tactical, what questions, like when you answer these, what questions, all these questions start with what? Then once you go through and you answer all of these, your why sort of gets revealed out of that. So I’m just gonna run through this list, okay? These are 30 what questions to help you find your why. Number one, what issues are you most passionate about solving for the world? So just you, you answer that. What, what issues are you most passionate about solving for the world? Number two, what problems are you most capable of solving for other people? What problems are you most capable of solving for other people?
RV (03:19):
That leads to question number three, which is kind of related, but a little bit different. What type of person can you serve in the deepest way? So you just think of like all the different types of people out the world, and you go, what type of person? What are the makeups of the, the specific characteristics of somebody that I can serve in the deepest way? Number four, what are the biggest challenges that you have overcome? We’ve talked about this a lot in brand builders group where we say that you’re, you’re your most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. So what challenge have you conquered? What obstacle have you overcome? What setback have you survived? What tragedies have you triumphed over? That all comes into what are the biggest challenges you’ve overcome? Number five, what practical skill sets do you have that you wanna develop more of?
RV (04:18):
What practical skill sets do you have or do you want to develop more of? So what, what things do you actually wanna learn that is a hint at your why? Number six, what skills do you want to learn and master that you don’t have? So this kind of goes in tandem with the previous one. So what, what are skills that you, you don’t yet have, but that you wanna learn and master? Number seven, what would you do if you knew you could not fail? What would you do if you knew you couldn’t fail? I first heard Brian Tracy ask that question years ago. That’s been a great one to think about. Number eight, what do you feel called to, what do you feel called to, like, what do you feel called to do? Number nine, what places in the world do you wanna visit?
RV (05:08):
So now we’re starting to get into the more tangible things which often help clarify and, and, and help us codify like a big part of our why. So that’s what this next little section is all about. What places in the world do you wanna visit? Number 10, what type of family do you wanna have? So just like, when you think ahead 10 years from now, what type of family, like how many people do you see in the family? What, what type of family? Anything you can describe about that. Number 11, what physical attributes do you want to exhibit in your body, right? What physical things do you want to maybe change or highlight or, you know, modify in your body? Number 12, what type of job title do you want to have?
RV (05:57):
Like, what would your ideal job title be? Number 13, what type of clients would you most enjoy working with? What type of clients would you most enjoy working with? So if you had your pick of the litter and the whole world, and you said, this is the, the the specific type of person that I wanna work with what would that be? That that’s gonna, that’s gonna give you a hint as to what your purpose is, right? Like, we believe that all of these things are hints and clues as to what you’re calling is. There’s a reason why God made you in the way that he made you. There’s a reason why you are drawn to the answers to these things. These are not bad things, they’re not selfish things. They shouldn’t become idols in your life, right? They shouldn’t take the place of God.
RV (06:48):
They shouldn’t be the most important thing, but they’re good things. They’re beautiful things, and we believe that they are, they are there for a reason and they guide you in the, in the way that you should go. Number 14, what amount of vacation would you like to take each year? What about a vacation would you like to take each year? You might think, oh, I want permanent vacation. But the the, the reality is that you probably don’t. I mean, if you’ve ever been on vacation longer than seven days, it actually gets boring pretty quick. I mean, you can only go out to eat at like so many restaurants and sit around on the beach all day and do nothing. Like there’s so many, so many days and, and I know you’re probably listening and you’re like, try me, right? I’d like to, I’d like to have that problem, right?
RV (07:30):
Where I was bored of too much vacation. So maybe you need to do that and experience that and, and realize, no, I, I wanna have work. We were designed to work, right? God created work in the garden before the fall of original sin. So regardless of what your spiritual beliefs are, you know, for me that is the source of truth is biblically speaking work is not a part of the, the, the curse work existed before the curse work gives us purpose. So what amount of vacation would you like to take each year? Number 15, what type of house do you wanna live in, right? Like when you, when you think of your house, I mean, of course maybe you have some dream mansion or something, and that’s fine. Like if, if that’s it. But, but realistically go, gosh, like how much space do I really need?
RV (08:15):
What would I, what features would I really love to have? What type of house do you wanna live in? 16. What city and state would you wanna live in? If you could live in any city and any state, where would you wanna live? Or what city? Just sticking with the what theme, number 17. What type of neighborhood do you wanna live in? So is it a cult sack? Is it, you know, the, the mountains? Are you by yourself? Are there people near you? Can you see your neighbors? Can you not? Like, is it really tight and close-knit? Is it gated? Is it like, you know, is it just a big open area? Can you walk to the grocery store? What, what type of neighborhood do you wanna live in? Number 18, what type of car do you wanna have? What type of car do you wanna have?
RV (08:56):
And I know some of these might seem shallow in terms of like, you know, or superficial, but I don’t believe they are. I think that, that these physical things give you a lot of clues and a lot of insight into the type of lifestyle that you want to have, right? Believe it or not, not everybody wants a Rolls-Royce, right? Not everybody wants a Ferrari. Like I don’t want a Ferrari. The the, now I would have another Bentley, like I, I do, I do some days Miss Mile Bentley that I sold when we started brand builders group. But like the, you know, what, what type of car would you have? Those give you clues and hints and insight into the type of maybe job you want to create or the way that you need to plan and save money. And, and you can reverse engineer that into the type of career, the type of work or the type of client you wanna work with.
RV (09:40):
So I think these are, you know, worthwhile questions. Number 19, what do you want your ideal daily schedule to look like? What do you want your ideal dream daily schedule to look like? So if you could like, plan the perfect week and just plot it out on a calendar, here’s what I would do on Monday morning and Monday afternoon and Monday night and Tuesday. And, and not just like a vacation. I mean, you could have a dream vacation, but this is more of like, if, if this was a week that you lived on repeat, right? Going back to what I said earlier about vacation, I believe it or not, I think a lot of people don’t want permanent vacation. I, I, I have a lot of friends who have sold their businesses and it, you know, of course it’s fun for a while be like, oh my gosh, I don’t have to work again or whatever.
RV (10:26):
But a lot of ’em go into a deep depression and they really struggle to find purpose because it’s like they’ve had this, this focus and then once it’s gone, cuz work is good. Work is a good thing, it shouldn’t be an ultimate thing, but work is a good thing. So, you know, what would, what would your ideal weekly schedule look like? Number 20, what amount of money will you need to fund the type of lifestyle that you wanna have during your retirement? If you’re gonna take a retirement, right, or you know, what, what amount of money would you need to have to just live your dream lifestyle might be a better way if you go, no, I’m not gonna work forever and then just retire and do nothing. But if I wanted to sort of like, paste it out a little bit, what amount of money do you need to to fund that?
RV (11:09):
Number 21, what do you want your taxable income to be? What do you want your taxable income to be? Number 22, what activities do you love that are life giving? Life giving? What are the activities that just, they just make you happy for no reason? And you go, you know what, maybe I shouldn’t love mowing the lawn, but I do. Now I do not, right? That is not one of mine, but like, maybe it is for you or maybe it’s cooking or sewing or, or reading it. Reading is is mine, right? I could sit and just read for hours. It’s just completely life giving to me. So what are the activities that are like life giving number 23 is the opposite of that question. What activities do you hate doing that are life taking? And
RV (11:52):
You’re not exactly sure why. And maybe some people love ’em, right? I mean, one mine is landscaping and gardening, right? I know some people love it, it’s their thing. For me, I’m like, this is is prison. Like, I’m miserable. I do not wanna be outside in the hot sun sweating, like bent over getting dirty and all. It’s just like, it’s just not my jam. So what are the activities that you don’t like doing or the things that are life taking? Number 24. This is a good one, okay? This is where we start to get into the type of person you need to become to have all these things that we just talked about in the last section. So I would, I would classify these 30 questions. It’s not equal 10, 10, and 10, but the first 10 questions are really about like, what’s your purpose and your calling in life.
RV (12:37):
The second 10 or, or the middle part, they’re not exactly the second 10. The middle part are really questions around what type of lifestyle do you wanna lead and do you wanna have? And then this, these last ones are kind of more about what type of characteristics do you need to develop as an individual. So number 24 would be is what would the self-talk be of someone who had already achieved all of these things? What would the self-talk be? What would the, the mind of someone who had already achieved all of these things that you just listed out, what are the things that they would say to themselves? Because whatever those things are, are things that you can and mean should and need to say to yourself before they happen, right? Self-Talk should happen in reverse. The your self-talk happens first. This is the creation principle of integrity chapter from my take the stairs book that you think it, you speak it, you act, and then it happens.
RV (13:33):
So first you think it and then you speak it. So what would your self-talk be? If you had already achieved all these things, number 25, what would you have to learn to achieve the things on this list? What are the things that you would have to learn? Number 26. What person or people do you know who have already achieved the things that you wanna achieve? So what person or what people do you know of who have already achieved the things that you wanna achieve? What people already have, the things you wanna have. Those people are the people who have the answers for you, right? So just identifying them. Number 27, which is a little bit related. What type of coaches would you need to help you to get to where you want to go? What type of coaches would you need to help get you to where you want to go?
RV (14:31):
Right? I mean, Michael Jordan has a coach. The greatest actors in the world, they have coaches like the, the, the elite highest performing athletes and entertainers and musicians. They all have coaches. The best authors in the world have coaches. We coach a lot of ’em. The, the best speakers in the world, right? We coach a lot of ’em. Like there there is, everybody needs a coach, like, and can benefit from a coach. So what type of coach would you need to or coach would you need to get to where you want to go? Number 28, what behaviors do you need to stop doing in your life? You don’t even have to. You just go, these are things I’m doing, I just need to stop doing these. What behaviors do you need to stop doing? You know, things that have shown up for me over the years has been like drinking alcohol eating sugar you know, staying up late.
RV (15:20):
Like these are, these are things as I’ve gotten older, it’s like, I just need to stop. Like, I just need to stop doing this. So what are they for you? Number 29. What behaviors do you need to start doing? What do you just need to start doing? And you go, you know what, like plain and simple. I, this is, I need to just start doing this. I know for whatever reason I know that this is a, a behavior I need to start doing. And then question number 30, and this is a big one, okay, what would you be willing to give up if you knew you could have all of these things?
RV (15:56):
Like what would you be willing to trade? What would you be willing to give up if you knew you could have all of these things? Those are 30 what questions to help you find your why. Those are questions that anybody can ask themselves to immediately get clear on what your, get clearer on what your why is, what your real purpose is, what your real driver is. And I obviously if you’re watching this or you’re listening to this, I know you probably didn’t capture all that. The good news, if you go to rory vaden blog.com, we will list, we’ve got these all listed out on my blog. So you can go get the full list there if you want to download it or screenshot it or whatever or just, you know, play this, play this back and you can listen over and over.
RV (16:42):
So that is the theme of today, 30 what questions to Find Your Why. And and when I talked about the three ideas to help you be more resilient, it’s really those three sections, right? It’s, it’s the first section of questions is all about understanding what purpose do I feel called to The second set of questions is really what are the things that I want to have or do or achieve? And then the third set of questions are really about what is the type of person that I need to become? And if you are clear on those three things, those three sets of questions, then inside of that, i, I, as a result of that, as the the byproduct of that, you’ll develop more resilience, you’ll develop more grit, you’ll develop more determination. Because now all of a sudden your brain is set on something that it wants, and now it has a reason to go out and achieve it and acquire it and make it happen. So get clear on these 30 what questions and you will find your why. And as you find your why, you will find the ability and the drive to be more resilient and more perseverant. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it and we’ll catch you next time.

Ep 414: How Personal Brands can Develop More Grit and Perseverance with Bianca Olthoff

RV (00:02):
Oh my gosh, Bianca Olthoff is fire. You are about to experience fire, and I’m so excited about it. So I met Bianca, honestly, we shared the stage together at this event called the Global Leadership Summit, which is probably the biggest speaking event in the world. And I saw her and I was like, gosh, she looks a lot like Jasmine Starr. And I was like, I swear they look a lot alike . And then I’ve been friends with Jasmine for a minute, and, and then I saw Jasmine. I’m like, there’s no way. Like they look so much alike. And then Jasmine became a client and I was like, Hey, has anyone ever told you that you look like Bianca Ulta? And she’s like, yeah, it’s my sister. And it blew my mind. And I’ve been following Bianca and I’m a huge fan of Jasmine, and she’s a client.
RV (00:49):
And now I’m following Bianca. And I just, I love Bianca’s content. And she has a book coming out called Grit Don’t Quit. And we’re gonna talk about this today. This is the topic of perseverance. Now this is Bianca’s third traditionally published book. Her first two books have done great. And she is a bestselling author. She is also a lead pastor of a church. So we’re gonna hear probably a little bit about that, maybe a little bit about speaking in the kind of the Christian circuit and Christian conferences. But mostly I want her to talk about how do we persevere and how do we overcome when we wanna quit? And anyways, we just become friends and I feel like she’s family even though we’re really technically meeting for the first time. So, Bianca, welcome to the show.
BO (01:35):
I am so excited. And with that introduction, I mean, I’m ready to throw some fire here. I mean, en Fugo. All right, we’re gonna have some fun. I’m gonna light some stuff up.
RV (01:44):
So, all right. So tell me, let’s talk about perseverance and grit, I guess, and walk me through what, walk me through your definition of what is grit? Why are you writing this book? How did this all come about?
BO (02:01):
So let’s start from the nitty gritty, if you will. I think over the last couple years, I have seen so many friends and so many people that are in the same field or people of faith that have just given up. And it’s so easy in our culture and society right now to throw in the tell, if you will. And I didn’t realize how pervasive the message was until I came to some really hard blows the last couple years. And I was having a conversation with a friend and she was going through a divorce, and I’m looking at her and I’m wa we’re walking through this really dark valley, if you will. And sure. She looked at me from across the coffee table and she said, well, I’m just not like you. I go, what do you mean? She’s like, well, because of your life and your background, like you just were forced to be resilient.
BO (02:48):
Like, I’m not born like that. And then I was hit with the reality that I think people think that resilience and grit is something that you’re born with, not something that you build. Hmm. And so a little bit of context. I know that you’re a good friend with Jasmine, and you know a little bit about this, but for those that are listening to the podcast, and I am new to them, new friend my background is peppered. I am a daughter of immigrants, and we are a large Hispanic family on one income, a dire straits being raised in urban environments. I like to say like we put the urban in suburban and our family was raised in East Los Angeles. See, west LA is where all the fancy bougie people were. We’re in East la. So Jasmine and I, I don’t know if you even know this, but Jasmine and I struggled academically to read right and spell.
BO (03:36):
We were I litter at the age of 12. I th Oh, and couple this with being obese and homeschooled and people of faith living in a non-faith culture. Mm-Hmm. , I mean, it was like strike after strike after strike. So I think statisticians would’ve put me in a category highest prone to failure. I mean, I’m repeating the generational patterns of people that have come before me, so sure, I understand what she’s saying, but there’s so many other people that lived very similar stories to myself. And yet there’s disciplines and practices that I’ve learned along the way, not just to survive, but also just to become a leader who thrives in whatever adversity is thrown my way. So what’s the heart behind this? Is that I want to demystify the understanding that grit is something that people are b born with. It is a practice that we develop.
BO (04:21):
And I’ve read so many books. I mean, Dr. Angela Duckworth’s book Grit was phenomenal. I loved it. It was amazing. Changed my life. It came out like 66, 7 years ago. But one of the things that when I closed the book, I realized, okay, so she defined grit, but she didn’t teach me necessarily how to build it. And she gave so many different examples of people that were like gritty. And she gave medical analysis and, and, and psychological understanding. But I left the book feeling very inspired, but I didn’t have practical handles. I’m the girl that likes to put the cookies on the lower shelf . I like to make things just really, really simple. And so, whether that’s teaching the Bible or teaching leadership principles, I just wanna make it simple. And so that’s the heart of this. In doing the research for this, I realize that some, some people might be born with a little bit more optimism, maybe a little bit more drive, but grit is something that all of us can build. And my definition of grit in its most simplistic form is a combination between endurance. We’re not gonna give up and perseverance. No matter what comes our way, we’re gonna keep pushing forward. So that’s the heartbeat behind it.
RV (05:25):
Yeah. And and personal brands is something you, you, you understand, you know, this intersection, right? Like, talk to me about some of the endurance that you’ve had to have to build your personal brand. I mean, you’ve got so many file followers online. You’ve got this thriving church, this thriving community. You’ve got three books. You self-published a book and then, and then two books that you wrote, and now this is your third. Like, how do you think this applies specifically to the personal brand journey?
BO (06:03):
You know I never set out to try to build something, and the least of that was to build a brand for myself. However, I have a wonderful sister who was like, Bianca, it’s you. You are building something. You are building. I am a woman of faith. And so forever out there that may not share that I, I totally understand it, but this is my journey, so I’m gonna give you a little peek. So I started teaching bible studies and my sister was like, Bianca, I really do think that you need a website cuz you’re basically like that person that’s selling fake rolexes, like a fx in an alleyway out of the trunk of a car. Like you have to legitimize yourself. And that simple conversation really sent me on this journey to be like, you know what? I am very proud of the abilities and the skills that I’m cultivating been given and are wanting to increase and get better.
BO (06:49):
So like, why not put intention behind everything that goes out there? Not just my words, but also what’s associated with that. And so it’s been wildly, wildly important. I think for those that are not familiar with the faith space it’s been largely dominated by men and largely dominated by a certain type of men. And so for me to come in it, I, I kind of stick out like a sore thumb. But that’s actually worked in my favor now because in building a brand, I realize that not everyone likes vanilla ice cream. Not everyone likes chocolate ice cream. Some people like cookie crunch, malted cookie crunch, and some people like bubble gum ice cream. Some people like Get ready pistachio ice cream. I just realize that I might not be everyone’s flavor, but the people who are out there that like my favor, they will love this ice cream.
BO (07:31):
So I’m going to build a brand, whether that is in visual assets, digital assets, audio assets or, or biblical assets. I want it to reflect a person, the person who I am in the best form. And again, if I like putting things on the lower shelf, the cookies on the lower shelf I wanna make, whether it’s brand building or biblical principles as easy for people to understand. So I’m passionate about it, I love it. And also my background is in art. So when she started talking about brand building, I kind of viewed it as like painting a portrait. And any portrait that lasts is gonna have a je eso underneath that is like a primer. And I think that brand building needs to have that brand building is the primer. If you want something to last, you need a good primer. If you want your business to grow, you have to have a good brand. So I view it like that.
RV (08:14):
Yeah. Well, and I just, I think people don’t realize how much the road to building a personal brand is just littered with rejection and self-doubt and going, you know, you get turned down for this speaking gig and this, this literary agent tells you your idea will never sell. And this publisher says the book is no good. And you know, you do this email campaign and nobody buys and you, you know, spend your, all your money on a website and then like it doesn’t work. And there’s just, there’s just, to me, this is such a, such a walk of perseverance and grit just to even be in the game, right? Like just to, even to just to even have a chance. You, you, you have to go. So I, I know you talk a little bit about neuroscience specifically and the connection to grit. Can you take us, take us a little bit into that, cuz I kind of feel this as like, you, you mentioned Angela Duckworth as sort of like the handoff of going, you know, there’s this academic piece of grit and, and then, you know, we’re gonna talk about, I wanna talk about the three piece of perseverance and all that, but there’s sort of like this, this piece of neuroscience. And tell me about how the neuroscience of our brain connects into us being gritty.
BO (09:34):
Okay, so you said before we went live on this podcast, you said that you were a nerd and I am a nerd. So from one nerd to a nerd. Nice. We’re gonna nerd move about for a second.
RV (09:43):
Nice
BO (09:43):
Neuroscience in the study of the brain and neuropathy is something that’s becoming more on the forefront of everyday nomenclature, language vocabulary. Like we’re understanding it more. And so for those not familiar with it, the, the easiest way to kind of break it down is neuropathy is this study of like our, the brain grooves. The grain brain pathways. And so in taking a little bit of neuroscience background and applying it to the idea of grit is that no matter what failure comes our way, we get to determine what we tell ourselves about that failure is that, do we say our failure is final or failure is part of the process. And every time that we choose a different narrative, one that is life giving one that is believing that the best is yet to come, as cliche as that sounds, we’re actually building neuro pathways in our brain that can actually rewire our brain to have us view situations like perceived failure or maybe being dismissed by somebody or being rejected or not g getting the job.
BO (10:44):
We can rewire our brain with truth when we tell ourselves, this is not the end of me. Mm. When we tell ourselves that this is actually strengthening me. And when we do that, it’s not. And this is the difference between just so you know, like, oh, positive confession, I’m just gonna will myself to think this. It’s actually knowing that there is a purpose for this failure. I mean, this goes into, I think when we talk about perseverance, when we talk about grit, it feels very nebulous. Like what does that really even mean? And I love some science that’s coming out of Harvard right now. Actually it’s, it’s act probably about a decade old, but I think it’s just gaining popularity that when we try to talk about the word resilience, what are the components of resilience? You had mentioned the three Ps and we can talk about that in a second.
BO (11:30):
But I think that’s been really pivotal in like how I understand failure because it’s perspective, it’s the ability to pivot and then there’s the purpose component. That has been wildly just fascinating to me because it’s changing the way that I think. And by changing the way that I think it changes the way that I live by changing the way that I live, it changes how I lead. And so I think all of it is interconnected and it begins with this rewiring of the brain. And that’s been really fascinating to, to un uncover. And I go a little bit into it. It’s only one chapter that I talk about that I talk about it in the book, but I think it’s so important, the power of what we’re thinking, the power of what we’re saying, the power of what we’re believing about, what perceived failure actually means in our life.
RV (12:13):
Yeah. I think that and that it was empowering for me to sort of wake up and realize this idea that it is up to me to define the way I think about what has happened to me. Right? You don’t always get to cho choose what happens, but you get to choose how you respond to it. And, and more specifically how you process it, how you, the, the story you tell yourself about what happened. One alternative is, man, I’m a total failure , this is never gonna work. Yeah. The other is to say, you, you know, oh this is preparing me or this is redirecting, redirecting, redirecting me or this feedback is, is sharpening, you know, is helping me sharpen in on what, what I am trying to get to. Or it’s just strengthening me. You know, I went, I went door to door for five years when I was in college and knocked on 20,000 doors and it just, it literally was like, you had to just tell yourself like every time the door got slammed was just like, this is strengthening my character.
RV (13:20):
Like this is making me so resilient cuz there’s so much, so much rejection. So let’s do, let’s walk through the, the three piece cuz I know that there’s people out there, whether it’s an author, you know, who feels hopeless about how do I get this book out into the world or the attention of a publisher or an aspiring speaker or a lot of, you know, maybe it’s coaches going, how do I just, I I need more clients and I feel like I I I don’t know where they’re gonna come from. Or we also have, you know, a lot of professional service providers that are, you know, part of this community of lawyers and accountants and doctors and things where they might just be feeling burnt out. Right? I’m just going like, I don’t wanna keep going. Like I’m already, I’ve been going for so long and I’m burnt out. So walk us, walk us through the three P’s.
BO (14:08):
Okay. So before we dive into that, you had said something that was so impactful and I don’t want someone to miss this. It’s like the podcasters flipping it on the podcaster, but you said something so good that I think people need to hold onto. You had 20,000 doors that you knocked on and you had so many nos and so many slammed doors in your face. Uhhuh , that is resistance. And what people, people can look at you and be like, oh, well that’s just Rory, or he’s just gifted for that, or it doesn’t hurt his feelings.
RV (14:34):
I cried every freaking day, every day I cried , literally, I’m not, I’m not exaggerating. I cried tears and it was every day. There was not one day that I was knocking on doors that I did not physically cry. It was horrible. I hated it. I was so hard
BO (14:54):
That resistance is the thing that builds resilience. And so I think that the door slammed in our faces mm-hmm. and that crying, it’s so easy to say, okay, this is not for me, I’m just gonna walk away. But there’s something that you cultivated inside of you. Whether, I mean, I don’t think maybe you had this divine re revelation on the seven, 7016th door that slammed in your face, but by and large it’s these micro decisions to say, I’m going to knock on the next door. I’m gonna knock on the next door. I’m gonna knock on the next door. Now if it’s in our own will, our own volition, our own drive, I think that will wane at like the 10000th door. Mm. But if we understand that resilience is actually a component of three different things, I call, I I I shifted them and the science of it, it’s very technical terms.
BO (15:38):
And so again, cookies on the lower shelf friend, I made them all start with P because I was raised on Sesame Street and p is the letter for the day. Okay? So of the first P of resilience is the understanding of perspective. So perspective is, and this is where we get into like the neuro pathways and what so perspective would pause and say, okay, even though this is bad, whatever the bad is, you didn’t get the job, the pitch in the boardroom epically failed. The C-suite that you wanted was taken by someone who everyone thought was more qualified. Whatever your perceived failures, your perspective is like your per your chosen perspective. You can walk in and say though that it’s not now that doesn’t mean that it’s not e never your perspective will shift and say, what are areas of growth in my life that I maybe don’t see?
BO (16:24):
Your perspective would say, Hey, this is resurrecting something in me that I would like to work, work through with a trained professional. I’m gonna go see a therapist perspective is saying, what am I not saying? And then perspective allows you to pivot the who are, what’s the characteristics of people who are resilient. Not only do they have a healthy perspective of life and themselves, they have the wild ability to pivot to say though this is not working. I am going to turn and I’m gonna go in a different direction and I’m gonna make this work when life gives me lemonade. Life can me lemons. It’s not just for lemonade. It’s so that I could save the seeds and plant these seeds in the future for trees that will produce more lemons in my life. This is the ability to pivot. The French word is brico.
BO (17:03):
Most people are familiar with like collage, but brico is when we’re taking different strands of different things and we’re making something beautiful. This is the lemons to lemonade. Those resilient people will just, will have an ability not only to have clear perspective, but the ability to pivot. And then last and finally is an understanding of purpose. So if you’re familiar with the Austrian psychiatrist out of Auschwitz that survived the Holocaust, oh my gosh, why am I blanking on his name? Please help me. Rory. Do you know what I’m talking about? It’s brilliant.
RV (17:34):
Victor Frankl. Victor
BO (17:37):
Frankel. See, I knew what you came through. You are, come on homie. You are a homie. Who is
RV (17:40):
Vic? Who is Victor Frankel for 500. Yes. .
BO (17:44):
Yes. Well done. You’ll win Jeopardy. You’ll be my phone a friend. Okay. So Vi Frankl really helped frame this understanding of acar pain having purpose. Nobody wants to say that. And again, it sounds so cliche, but what he did is he found that people that understood that their pain actually produced a purpose in their life. That they went on to live not only more fulfilled lives, but more successful lives. And I think wow, if we’re giving people handles on how to be resilient, it’s those that have a healthy, healthy perspective on self and life, have the ability to pivot and then can see a greater purpose beyond whatever trauma trial or tribulation has faced them. That’s what makes me passionate and that’s what makes me so excited. I’m like, wait, there’s actual he handles to build this for our lives.
RV (18:27):
Yeah. And these, these are so good because I you know, like with perspective, part of how I’ve always thought about it is like if you have a flat tire, that seems like an awful event. But one day when you go to heaven, if you real, if you learn back and you go, oh, that flat tire actually prevented you from a fatal car accident mm-hmm. just around the corner mm-hmm. , you go, wow, I completely view that horrible thing, what seemed like a horrible thing as a complete blessing. And it’s like the event hasn’t changed. Hello.
RV (19:03):
All that has changed is your perspective. Mm-Hmm. . And I, I heard a pastor one time say to me, they said, you know, Rory Heaven is just a bunch of people walking around going, oh, now I see why God did that . Oh, now that makes sense. You know, I probably would’ve done that that way too. Right? And, and just, just that perspective of going, we just don’t have the gift of knowing always why. The other one, the other thing that makes me think about that is like high school reunions where you go, man, when I was in high school, I had the biggest crush on this one person. And you’re just like desperate to like have this one person like you. And then 20 years you come back to high school reunion and you’re like, oh, thank God. Thank you Lord. Oh, thank you Jesus. Thank you for
BO (19:47):
Unan answer prayers .
RV (19:48):
Thank you Jesus. . I mean, it is, it it’s just that. And so much of that perspective I think, you know, comes from time. But you can, you actually can have that choice in the moment. Yeah. That you could go even though I don’t know how, you know, and it makes me think of Romans, I think it’s Romans 8 28, right? Like
BO (20:08):
All things work together for good
RV (20:10):
In all things. Yeah. God wor things work together, together for good, for those who love God and called his purposes or something close to that. There’s is that you can choose to go, even though this awful thing has happened. Yeah. There’s gotta be some payoff as to why. And, and, and it is always the way, right? Like you can look back on things that happened 20 years and go, man, I actually am quite thankful that I got fired from that job. Like mm-hmm. , I actually am quite thankful that that relationship didn’t work out. I, I’m, I’m quite thankful that I didn’t get into that college. Like what, whatever it is, they were these heartbreaks. So I I absolutely love that. And first of
BO (20:51):
All, first of all, you are taking us to church today. Okay. I’m about to bring my podcast Oh yeah. . And you know, I wanna pause and I wanna pause for a second because my fear, my hesitation is that there’s somebody listening on the other side that’s listening to this and saying, yeah, sure. Okay. Perspective. Okay. Let your pain have a purpose. So for somebody out there that might be feeling cynical, I wanna kind of flip the table on you. When you had the 10000th door slam in your face, what was the thing that made you get up the next morning and knock on the next a hundred doors?
RV (21:24):
Oh, you’re talking to me? Yeah. Oh. Well, I, it’s funny. I would, my honest answer to that would be programming. It would be programming going back to the, to the, to the neuroscience neuro
BO (21:37):
Pathways.
RV (21:37):
Yeah. We, we, we used to, they, they taught us to say this, this phrase, the answers behind the next door, the answers behind the next door, the answers, the answer to every problem is behind the next door. And they like beat it into our heads. Whoa. And I, I actually would say it out loud between houses, the answers behind the next door, a always. And so I would say it was less of a feeling. I never felt like going to the next door. It was more of realizing, okay, my brain is a computer system, it’s going to do whatever it’s trained to do, and I need to program my brain that whenever something bad happens, the answer is behind the next door. So to just keep going. And, you know, I I would also say, you know, to that person that’s listening right now going, if, if they’re sitting there thinking, oh yeah, you know, this is all nice and tidy, wrapped up in a bow, like your pain turns into purpose and perspective, what I would say is just create an alternative version of how the story could end, right?
RV (22:38):
So if you’re sit, if you’re sitting on the corner with a flat tire right now, it, it, it, it feels awful, right? Like, I’m not telling people to fake their emotions. Like, it sucks when someone slams the door on your face. It sucks when you have a flat tire. It sucks when somebody dies. It sucks when you get fired. But, and this is part of where, for me, I think faith comes into it, which is in all things God works for the good of those who love him and who are called according to his purpose is to go. I am consciously choosing to believe that even though I can’t see it, even though I don’t understand it, even though I don’t feel it right now, what is a potential explanation for how this could be used for good? Or even just having the thought that it could somehow be used for good, I think gives you enough to go to, to go to the next door to go, yeah, I don’t understand it, but I’m just gonna keep going versus otherwise, I’m, I’m just searching for an explanation. And the explanation is, oh, I suck. I’m not worth it. I’ll never succeed. You know, I have bad luck. So I, I love what you’re saying there about perspective and purpose and I mean, those, those tie together really, really, really well. Well,
BO (23:50):
Thank you for knocking on the 20,000 doors because I think that what you’ve learned in that, in that season has equipped you to help so many other people in their season of not wanting to knock on the next door.
RV (24:02):
Well, thanks, Bianca. I mean, I think I, I think this is the not, I think I’m a hundred percent certain. I, you know, I’ve now interviewed thousands of people between my various podcasts over the years. This is a hundred percent the story of success there. I have not found one person who has been extremely successful who doesn’t have some version of that story. In fact, in your book you talk about Paul from the Bible, and this is, I know it’s a, I mean, hey, you’re a pastor, like, there’s gonna be a few biblical references. So doesn’t, doesn’t mean you have to believe in Jesus to be successful a personal brand, but since we have a pastor here, but you’re, this was just a reference you used. And I think, I think this story particular for people who are not believers and don’t, you know, maybe don’t follow Jesus or like, aren’t that familiar with the Bible, the story of Paul, to me is a really important and relevant story to people who are non-believers specifically, you know, in the realm of perseverance and like using grit to transform someone.
RV (25:04):
So can you like describe why you chose Paul as an example of this?
BO (25:09):
Well, I refer to Paul as my Bible boyfriend. I just feel like there is no one else and the page. And yes, my husband is aware that I have a crush on a dead Bible guy. But, but I love Paul the Apostle for his ability to persevere like no one else in scripture. And there’s gonna be somebody that’s gonna argue with me. A person of faith is gonna be like, well, what about Jesus? Yes. Well, Jesus is the son of God. So that’s kinda not a fair comparison. But Paul was a man just like you and me. And I love, I love the humanity of Paul, but I love the, the drive that this man has to consider it joy, my pure brethren, when he writes to his fellow believers in the face of all adversity. And so for those that maybe haven’t been to church in a while, or have never been to church, there is a man by the name of Paul, and he has this radical encounter where he sees the light proverbially and metaphorically and biblically, he’s literally struck down, blinded by a light.
RV (26:07):
And before this, he’s a murderer. He’s a, he’s a, he is murdering Christians, persecuting them. Mm-Hmm. . So he’s a, there’s something about like whispered murderous threats or something. There’s some verse about that where it’s like, so this wasn’t just like a dude who had an encounter. This is like the bad guy, like the worst, the worst of it, it could be. And then he has this encounter.
BO (26:30):
So he’s the prosecutor and the prosecutor against people of the way as in those following Jesus. So he is on his way, he’s breathing hot threats down the neck of believers, and he’s stopped, he’s halted on the Damascus road in the desert, dusty, dirty road. And he has an encounter that really changes his life. And suffice it to say you can read his story all throughout the pages of scriptures, but the man goes on to Penn, two thirds of the noon testament, and the one who was a prosecutor and the prosecutor against the people that were people of faith. He becomes one of the, if not the chief crafter of our theology that we understand today. Now that sounds lovely. When we say theology, we think of like an ivory tower. No, this man was beaten. This man was stoned. This man was imprisoned multiple times.
BO (27:19):
This man had allegations come up against him. And there’s this one one specific account where he is just falsely charged. He’s put in a boat, he’s sent over on his way to Rome, their ship wrecked, their ship runs runs afloat against an an island called Malta. They finally make it through this storm that’s supposed to take their life. And as he’s there, they’re trying to drive themselves off and warm themselves off, and they build a fire. And as they’re building a fire, he picks up pieces of wood to start the fire. And then out comes a, a snake that bites him and everyone’s expecting him to die. And he doesn’t die. He doesn’t die. In fact, the hand that is bitten soon will be the hand that he lays on people that will experience supernatural miraculous healing. I mean, this man’s story is absolutely insane, and he has such a conviction about what he’s called to do, that it’s nothing can stop him.
BO (28:09):
I’m not saying that he walks, you know, skipping along and desires to eat bomb bonds on a beach. No, the man endures so much, and yet it did not stop him from doing what he was called to do. So the reason why so much of this book is framed upon the life, if, if there’s a through line in this book, it’s the life of Paul the Apostle where we are all gonna have this arresting moment. No, there’s not gonna be a, a light that shines down from heaven and a voice that’s like, why are you persecuting me? But there’s kind kinda a moment in our life and maybe even multiple times in our life where we’re stopped and we’re arrested and asked, what are we doing? And it’s those moments that I kinda wanted us to pause and take a take a a, a a, a pulse check, if you will.
BO (28:48):
What am I doing? What am I doing? Because there’s going to be resistance that comes along with the way when we are pursuing the call that’s upon our lives, whether that is sitting in a medical practice or whether that’s going to law school, or whether that is being a stay-at-home mom who is an entrepreneur running a business out of her kitchen. I, there’s going to be resistance. And the reason why I’m absolutely beaded with this man named Paul, is that nothing stopped him and thwarted him from not just pursuing the call upon his life, but encouraging others to do the same. So I look at Paul’s, which is the end of his life, he says, I poured myself out like a drink offering. Now this is very poetic. But he was also speaking to the philosophy during that time that during that time in ancient Greco-Roman culture, they would pour out their wine to the gods as a sacrifice. And he is saying, I am pouring myself out for the benefit and the sacrifice. Sacrifice unto the Lord, be benefit of you. And I wanna get to the end of my life and say, I have fought the good fight. I have poured myself out like a drink offering, not only pursuing the God call that he’s put on my life, but inspiring others to do the same no matter what comes my way.
RV (29:53):
Amen. I love it. Bianca, where should people go if they wanna learn about this book or connect with you, like see all the things that you are up to?
BO (30:03):
Absolutely. I’m so excited about the project and it launches August 28th. People can pre-order and get a bunch of amazing gifts and incentives and resources, not just stuff that’s gonna sit on a desk, but resources that will enable people to build resilience and grit and perseverance. So they can go to bianca ov.com/gdq for grit, don’t Quit, and also at Bianca ov on all social media platforms,
RV (30:27):
Grit, don’t quit, bianca ov.com/gdq. We’ll put a link to that in the bio as well. And I would encourage you to follow her online. I mean, I follow her on Instagram and I just, I love it. It’s just encouraging, encouraging words. So thank you for your encouragement, friend. Thank you for your example. Thank you. Thank you for boldly pursuing your calling and, and what you’re doing, and we just we’re praying for you and, and we are pulling for you. And we, we wish you the best. Thank
BO (30:55):
You. Appreciate you.

Ep 411: Eternal Life Part 1 | Strategy for Defeating Death

RV (00:00:03):
What is your strategy against death? I mean that seriously. What is your strategy for dealing with defeating or overcoming death? What is your philosophy about death? What do you believe about what happens after death? Ironically, this is probably one of the most important, if perhaps not the single most important questions for you to answer during your life. And yet, many of us speaking, at least for myself, my friends, my family, many of the people that I know and interface with, many of us spend a shockingly little amount of time thinking about or answering or even having any crafted philosophy at all about what happens after we die. And to me, from a logical standpoint, you put all religion and spiritual spirituality and, and, you know, theism, aside from a purely logical standpoint, this seems like an important question, one that we should spend a little bit of time thinking about, because one thing that I know is that 100% of humans that have ever lived have also died.
RV (00:01:36):
death has a 100% success rate. There is nobody that death hasn’t gotten right, like nobody who is still on this planet, who once was born, who is still here now, hundreds or thousands of years after they’ve been born. Everybody is gone. They have all died or disappeared or died and disappeared. And so there’s a pretty high likelihood that you and me and everyone we know is going to die sooner or later. And I don’t mean to be morbid about that, but I do mean to present you and to present myself with the sobering reality that we’re gonna die. We’re not gonna be here we are at some point. Our bodies, in their current form, in this current place are going to cease to exist in the way that they exist now. And so my question is, what is your strategy for that? What, what exactly do you believe about the afterlife?
RV (00:02:42):
Do you believe in reincarnation? Maybe you do. If you do, though, why? Like, what evidence is there for reincarnation? What, what logical or academic or scientific support beyond just your own personal convictions, beyond your own feelings, beyond your own instincts, beyond your own emotions, what evidence is there to support that? That’s real. I’m not saying that you have to have evidence for that. All of us, of course, you, myself included, we are all welcome to have whatever beliefs that we choose. But for me, as an analytic, not somebody who’s a pastor, but as someone who is a critical thinker, someone who is logical, someone who is systematic and pragmatic and practical, I just am curious to know, is there any evidence for what you believe? And what is the evidence for what you believe? Maybe you believe in heaven. So what evidence is there for that?
RV (00:03:45):
And how do you get into heaven? And is heaven really real? And if there, if there is a heaven, how confident are you that you are going to get in , right? Like, and what is that based on? So a lot of people, you know, I’ve, I’ve had these conversations, right? Anecdotally here, I’m, I’m speaking. But you know, I’ve, I’ve been around for more than 40 years in my life and, and have had a lot of, again, I’m, I would consider myself a critical thinker somebody who explores difficult and tough topics. And so, as I’ve asked people, you know, like, how do you get to heaven? A lot of people will say something like, well, you just have to be a good person. Which, you know, that’s a big part of me that goes, yeah, I, I buy that, that, that makes sense to me.