Ep 586: Leveraging Digital Marketing, AI, and Personal Brand Apps for Brand Growth | Vincent Phamvan
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. Today’s one of those special [00:00:05] days where I get to introduce a good friend, and not only a friend, but [00:00:10] also, uh, someone that we are a client of. And so, uh, I’m so excited to have you [00:00:15] on the show today, Vincent, and before I formally introduce you, as I always do, for [00:00:20] anyone who’s listening, I wanna tell everyone a couple of reasons why I think that this.[00:00:25]
[00:00:25] It’s one of those universal episodes applicable to anyone. Number one, [00:00:30] the trends in technology are changing at so [00:00:35] fast, exponential rate that it’s literally one of those things, like if you’re not [00:00:40] watching it, it will pass you by. Mm-hmm. So we’re gonna talk a lot about what are those trends, what has [00:00:45] changed over the last five years.
[00:00:47] More importantly, what do you need to know right [00:00:50] now in the digital space to capitalize on this content [00:00:55] economy that we’re living in? So that’s the first thing. Mm-hmm. That is why it is applicable to anyone. If you’re online, this will [00:01:00] have application to you. Number two, we’re gonna talk about the rise of the personal [00:01:05] brand, uh, and what that really means, and.
[00:01:08] What is a personal brand, [00:01:10] what people think it is, but also how does that influence, you know, marketing [00:01:15] and consumer behavior today? So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that. And then number three, we’re gonna talk about the [00:01:20] biggest topic that everyone is talking about, no matter who you are, where you are, the, the voice [00:01:25] of AI and automation, and how that, uh, applies to your business today.
[00:01:29] [00:01:30] So as you guys are listening and deciding, is this one of those episodes, that’s for me. Now, you [00:01:35] know that this is. For you, right? So that’s why you need to stick around, uh, and [00:01:40] listen to the entire show. But now let me introduce you to my good friend. Now I can give you a casual [00:01:45] introduction of Vincent and why I think he’s wicked smart and so helpful.
[00:01:49] [00:01:50] But his team is also just as helpful. Uh, there’s very few vendors that I would [00:01:55] raise two hands and say. Has been a pleasure to work with from top to bottom. And [00:02:00] Vincent’s Company, Viton is one of those companies, but he also has lots of other accolades. So let me [00:02:05] give you a quick formal, uh, a formal introduction and then we’ll get going.[00:02:10]
[00:02:10] First and foremost, Vincent is the founder and CEO. He’s the owner of [00:02:15] Viton, which is a mobile app company, uh, and in our world [00:02:20] specifically and uniquely designed to help build personal brand apps, which I think is [00:02:25] just. Amazing, and we’re gonna talk a lot about that today. But more than that, uh, he is a [00:02:30] three time, uh, CMO, uh, different, uh, technology companies, [00:02:35] healthcare companies.
[00:02:36] Uh, he’s done anything from ai, enterprise startups [00:02:40] to, uh, creating, uh, digital events in the, uh, the digital landscape [00:02:45] when, when the pandemic shut down everything. Vincent was one of the few pioneers who took [00:02:50] everything online and built online communities. Kind of [00:02:55] overnight. He’s also, uh, has an amazing personal brand of his own, and I love that.
[00:02:59] [00:03:00] He’s a dad of two girls. He’s a girl, dad. Uh, and I get to see his girls every Sunday at [00:03:05] church. And honestly, you’re just an awesome dude. And so I’m so excited to [00:03:10] have you. Welcome to the show.
[00:03:11] vincent: Thanks so much, aj. It’s. Awesome being here and you know, [00:03:15] likewise with you and the BBG team, it has been like such a pleasure to be able to work with the [00:03:20] team and every single time that we come to one of the BBG events I learned so much.
[00:03:24] Just, [00:03:25] you know, being an ear on the wall, being able to just hear, but you know, the community has [00:03:30] just been incredible. Um, you mentioned inviting a little bit and. Uh, we don’t talk [00:03:35] externally a a lot about our mission, but our mission is to help people live [00:03:40] healthier, happier lives. Mm-hmm. And we do a lot of that work.
[00:03:43] You know, we’re a technology company. [00:03:45] We build mobile apps, we integrate AI into mobile apps, but we accomplish that work through [00:03:50] partnerships with companies like yours and like with the BBG, um, [00:03:55] folks and community because our work just amplifies and allows them [00:04:00] to be able to get their message out there.
[00:04:02] Yeah, and you know what? And that’s what marketing should do, [00:04:05] good marketing should do just what you said. Mm-hmm. It’s to help people live healthier, [00:04:10] happier, more productive lives, and to get messages out into the world. And I feel [00:04:15] like, at least in the last, I’ll call it 10 years, that there has been [00:04:20] such an oversaturation of bad marketing.
[00:04:23] vincent: There’s a lot of noise out there.
[00:04:24] There’s a lot of [00:04:25] noise. And maybe bad is a strong word, but I would say. Uh, [00:04:30] not aligned marketing with mm-hmm. The way that you do it. And so I, I’d love to start with this question ’cause [00:04:35] I think it’s really important to set the tone Yeah. For where we are today and I think where we’re all [00:04:40] heading.
[00:04:40] Mm-hmm. What would you say are some of like the biggest mistakes or [00:04:45] trends or challenges that you’ve seen in the marketing space in the last five years that have brought us [00:04:50] to where we are today with ai?
[00:04:51] vincent: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. Like there are things in marketing that are, [00:04:55] that will always be.
[00:04:57] Good messaging, good copywriting will [00:05:00] always be important to marketing and that, like I take a look at marketing strategies [00:05:05] versus marketing tactics. I. Marketing tactics change all the time, right? When [00:05:10] you look backwards and you take a look at 10 years ago, Facebook groups had massive [00:05:15] visibility. You saw businesses building off of these Facebook groups that had a hundred [00:05:20] thousand, 200,000 people, and a lot of reach.
[00:05:22] So the number one thing is really the [00:05:25] algorithms from the large social media companies are shifting and changing. [00:05:30] Constantly and the platforms themselves are shifting and changing as well. They’ve [00:05:35] consolidated a little bit with meta purchasing and like growing through acquisition, [00:05:40] but when you take a look at earlier this year, I think the TikTok ban was like the scariest and [00:05:45] also like the biggest moment.
[00:05:47] Yeah. Where you say. Hey, some people have built [00:05:50] literally millions, their millions entire business, their entire business off of TikTok, and you see the [00:05:55] de platforming that has happened. You know, there’s never been real proof of a shadow [00:06:00] ban, but you hear all the time people talking about, you know, one day my [00:06:05] reach just fundamentally changed overnight.
[00:06:07] So I would say that de platforming the [00:06:10] algorithm shifts are the number one thing that has changed. You know, we have been told for forever. [00:06:15] That you should own your audience, build an email list. But the big change [00:06:20] now with the new iPhone is AI is built into the fundamental hardware and software [00:06:25] of the new iPhones.
[00:06:26] Your, uh, email preview, right, that first line of an email [00:06:30] newsletter is now an AI summary. Your inbox is going, which quite
[00:06:33] honestly, I despise. Yeah. I [00:06:35] hate that. I’m like, that is not what I want. I’m so, every time I look at my phone, I’m like, what am I, what am I looking at? Yeah. [00:06:40]
[00:06:40] vincent: What am I, what am I reading at here?
[00:06:41] But that’s just
[00:06:41] the beginning of, yeah, that’s the beginning of
[00:06:43] vincent: it. Right. And so [00:06:45] emails now have an algorithm because it’s being sorted into your primary, your updates, your [00:06:50] promotion tab, and even text messages from unknown numbers are being sorted into on [00:06:55] iMessage. A different folder as well. And so the ability to be [00:07:00] able to communicate and reach your audience directly, whether you are a [00:07:05] local brick and mortar.
[00:07:06] And you have information that you want to be able to send [00:07:10] out about specials, about new staff members, about promotions, about retreats, and all of that [00:07:15] information, or whether you’re building an online business is the exact same thing. [00:07:20] You want the ability to be able to reach your audience as directly as much as possible and for you [00:07:25] to be able to own and control that relationship.
[00:07:27] Now, we’ve talked about like AI in terms of. Um, [00:07:30] the impact that it’s having on your business, but AI can also be a huge tailwind as [00:07:35] well. Mm-hmm. If your business is leveraging it. And so, you know, the three [00:07:40] bus biggest trends and changes are these platform and algorithm changes the [00:07:45] way that you communicate directly with your community.
[00:07:48] And then the third one [00:07:50] is how you’re leveraging AI or not leveraging ai.
[00:07:53] Yeah. You know, that’s interesting [00:07:55] because I think, uh, I’d like to hit each of those just really quickly. Mm-hmm. Individually. Mm-hmm. For a little bit more [00:08:00] context. Um, and this could easily just how everyone knows, be an eight hour interview, and we’re gonna cram it into [00:08:05] like 55 minutes.
[00:08:06] But, uh, I, I think it’s, this algorithm [00:08:10] conversation is something that has impacted everyone and it’s likely not [00:08:15] going to, to stop changing. Like it’s going to keep changing. [00:08:20] Uh, what do, what do we do about that?
[00:08:21] vincent: I think the biggest thing is just understanding the trends in the [00:08:25] marketplace because. If, if you take a look at the adoption curve of [00:08:30] any technology, you know the, there is a place where you will have early [00:08:35] adopters that will adopt something.
[00:08:36] The biggest example I think of early adopters adopting something [00:08:40] quickly was clubhouse. Like, remember the week where clubhouse was just like everywhere that [00:08:45] everywhere was, and then just
[00:08:45] as quickly went away and then just as quickly
[00:08:47] vincent: went away. The question is, is [00:08:50] like. How do you take a look at platforms and changes and you say, [00:08:55] Hey, clubhouse had its moment right, but when it went [00:09:00] away, how do you, how do you not let that become the distraction to your life and business, [00:09:05] whereas you have other instances like podcasting as a trend, or [00:09:10] TikTok as a trend.
[00:09:11] Where you say, Hey, this is not just early adopters. This has the [00:09:15] potential to become mainstream and you see the value in it. And to [00:09:20] ensure that you are understanding how you can jump on that wave [00:09:25] and on that trend, once you start taking a look at those [00:09:30] trends, the next step is to take a look in your funnel.
[00:09:33] So for anybody [00:09:35] who’s not a marketer, by trade, you know, in your marketing funnel, at the top of the funnel, you have [00:09:40] awareness. At the bottom of the funnel, you have your conversions or your purchases, and you have to take [00:09:45] a look at how that content strategy fits into your overall [00:09:50] funnel. Today we are in a moment where, at the top of the funnel, it’s all about shorts.
[00:09:54] Yeah,
[00:09:54] vincent: and [00:09:55] all about shorts means we’re talking about Instagram reels, we’re talking about tiktoks, and we’re talking about YouTube shorts. [00:10:00] You know, YouTube shorts are showing up in Google searches. Tiktoks and [00:10:05] Instagram reels have crazy virality. If your messaging resonates mm-hmm. [00:10:10] With folks online, but those are not conversion events.
[00:10:13] The conversion events [00:10:15] happen towards the bottom of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel is where you don’t just go broad, you [00:10:20] go deep.
[00:10:20] Yeah.
[00:10:21] vincent: And going deep means long form content like podcasts [00:10:25] going deep means the eBooks that are actually still working. If the eBooks have a lot [00:10:30] of value.
[00:10:31] Yeah.
[00:10:31] vincent: Where you can walk somebody through that journey.
[00:10:34] It’s interesting as [00:10:35] you say that because you said earlier there’s a difference between marketing strategies and like marketing tactics. [00:10:40] Mm-hmm. And that’s what you’re talking about right now. Yeah. It’s like, uh, I think a lot of us don’t have [00:10:45] a good marketing strategy, right? We’re being tempted with all the tactics to [00:10:50] grow followings.
[00:10:51] Mm-hmm. And, you know, go viral without understanding. Like, no, there’s a [00:10:55] conversion strategy that at the end of the day, that’s what marketing is doing. It’s driving awareness. [00:11:00] And driving them to make a decision on something. And that’s a strategy that has to be in [00:11:05] place. Yes. Before all these other things happen.
[00:11:07] vincent: Absolutely. Because a lot of a question [00:11:10] that a lot of early entrepreneurs ask is like, where should I be? Right?
[00:11:13] Mm-hmm.
[00:11:14] vincent: And it’s, [00:11:15] and the where should I be? Is, is the quintessential marketing tactic [00:11:20] question because it’s asking what channel, what social media channel should I be on? And, you [00:11:25] know, the, the irony of the whole thing is, like, my favorite answer to that is wherever you’re the most [00:11:30] comfortable, right?
[00:11:31] Wherever you’re the most comfortable is going to be the channel where you’re going to [00:11:35] enjoy creating content the most. And you have the best [00:11:40] chance of sustainably doing that over the course of a year. Because [00:11:45] a year putting out content in the same channel is about what it takes.
[00:11:49] Mm.
[00:11:49] vincent: To [00:11:50] be able to start growing your community, that community doesn’t need to be massive.
[00:11:54] [00:11:55] Right. I, uh, online there’s like the concept of the thousand true fans that many of us [00:12:00] have heard about, where you can have a thousand people that are really passionate about what you’re doing. And this is not my concept. [00:12:05] This is, you know, a concept that is taught pretty frequently, but that could be on substack.
[00:12:09] [00:12:10] Right. If you are not a camera person, you’re not a video person, it could be substack. If you [00:12:15] are comfortable with audio, that could be in podcast format. But I think the biggest piece though [00:12:20] is how you take a look at how creating that long form content goes into a [00:12:25] flywheel. I. And that flywheel results in other different types of [00:12:30] content coming out of it, right?
[00:12:31] Yeah. And you, you see companies like BBG doing this really well where this [00:12:35] long form podcast will get clipped into smaller clips. It’ll get turned, those clips [00:12:40] can get turned into blog posts. Those blog posts can turn into captions. And so. [00:12:45] The long form content is really great for being able to batch [00:12:50] content.
[00:12:50] The short, the shorter content is how you start reaching people [00:12:55] top of funnel.
[00:12:55] Yeah, no, I think that’s so good. And that’s back to the strategy. Mm-hmm. And we all need a [00:13:00] strategy in place before we just. Throw mud on a wall and it’s like, why isn’t it working? [00:13:05] Well, it takes work for it to work. Yeah, it takes work.
[00:13:08] Um, now this AI [00:13:10] component of it, because I think the fact that ai, we don’t even have the option to use it, and I think [00:13:15] that’s what I want everyone to grasp right now in what Vincent said earlier, is that [00:13:20] truly it’s being hardwired into the new iPhones, and that’s not the only [00:13:25] place. Mm-hmm. It’s now coming as an a templated part of.
[00:13:29] [00:13:30] Everyday use business tools. Yes. This is not something we get to choose to use. This isn’t [00:13:35] something that we’re like, oh no, it’s being fed to us now. Mm-hmm. It’s not an option. It’s [00:13:40] happening all around us. And so there are still some people who are pretty adverse [00:13:45] to it. Yep. Uh, just like there are still people adverse to social media and probably some that are [00:13:50] still adverse to email, surprisingly.
[00:13:52] Um, but. I think the the point is, is [00:13:55] no, it is happening. It is here. This isn’t something we’re talking about. It’s not a choice we have. And [00:14:00] so in this world of ai, what would you say when it comes to [00:14:05] marketing and personal brands, like what’s the number one thing that all of [00:14:10] us listening and selfishly me, what do we need to know?
[00:14:14] [00:14:15] What do we need to embrace? What do we need to be proactive about when it comes to utilizing [00:14:20] ai?
[00:14:20] vincent: I think that’s such a great question. I think I see AI as like the great [00:14:25] equalizer.
[00:14:25] Mm-hmm.
[00:14:26] vincent: And what I mean by that is there are technology [00:14:30] trends that allow solopreneurs, local businesses, small businesses. [00:14:35] To be able to compete on the same world stage as large [00:14:40] corporations.
[00:14:40] AI is one of those enablers, and what I mean by that is [00:14:45] in 2017, I was the CMO of a SaaS startup, a software company [00:14:50] based in San Francisco. We were venture-backed and we were using AI back in [00:14:55] 2017 to be able to answer customer service tickets on behalf of our clients. [00:15:00] With a success rate of like 70% of tickets being solved by [00:15:05] ai.
[00:15:05] And you know, back then that was something that, like your [00:15:10] average person had no idea that large brands could even do that. [00:15:15] And that was a good four or five years before Chat G gt [00:15:20]
[00:15:20] totally, yeah.
[00:15:20] vincent: Hit the market, right? What chat GPT did was not new [00:15:25] technology necessarily. Because large corporations always had data scientists, [00:15:30] always had software engineers to be able to automate that type of stuff.
[00:15:33] What large language [00:15:35] models have done is actually make that accessible to
[00:15:38] everybody,
[00:15:39] vincent: to small and [00:15:40] medium sized businesses.
[00:15:41] Yeah.
[00:15:41] vincent: Mm-hmm. And that is something that is [00:15:45] incredibly wild, right? When you take a look at what large companies used [00:15:50] to do was make these large investments in technology. [00:15:55] And it allows them to be able to compete in a completely different way than normal [00:16:00] companies.
[00:16:00] In the personal brand space, Kim Kardashian put out her first mobile app [00:16:05] in 2014. Mr. Beast put out his first mobile app in [00:16:10] 2020. Tony Robbins put out his first mobile app, uh, in I [00:16:15] think two years later. I wanna say it was 2022. And so when you’re taking a look at [00:16:20] Yeah, individuals that are putting together personal brands.
[00:16:23] You look at that upstream and you’re [00:16:25] just like, well, you know, all of them are doing it. Why I think is the number one [00:16:30] question, and that why has a lot to do with the filtering [00:16:35] and the AI and the algorithms because. They’re seeing the [00:16:40] trends of what’s happening in email marketing with open rates lingering around 31% and [00:16:45] declining every single day.
[00:16:46] All of us are getting hundreds of [00:16:50] emails a day and we know that. And the mobile apps allow them to be able to send push [00:16:55] notifications and engage like never before. Right? And so [00:17:00] even when you take a look for anybody who’s running online businesses and is familiar with launches. [00:17:05] So launching is a concept where you’re providing value, you’re nurturing your audience.
[00:17:09] You [00:17:10] might have some type of live event, and then after that you might open up a membership. [00:17:15] You know, launches historically have been done through email marketing where you would [00:17:20] send emails. Then after that we saw that some people started launching [00:17:25] with social media and email. And you know, some of the best launches today [00:17:30] are actually happening with online events that occur in a mobile app.
[00:17:34] [00:17:35] And it’s push notifications, social media, and email. And this [00:17:40] was something that wasn’t. Accessible in the past, and we’re starting to [00:17:45] see companies being able to bring this type of technology and making it available to [00:17:50] anybody.
[00:17:50] You know, it’s interesting because you just mentioned like so many different channels, [00:17:55] right?
[00:17:55] Yeah. And it’s like, and I think that’s what’s overwhelming. Mm-hmm. For someone who’s, you know, the [00:18:00] solopreneur or they have a really small team. Yeah. Or they’re just starting out and it’s like, oh my gosh. [00:18:05] You just talking about email marketing and now there’s social media, and then there’s all the different social media platforms.
[00:18:09] Yep. And now there’s [00:18:10] personal brand apps. And so if you were to narrow it down right, to like what are the [00:18:15] most fundamental and successful marketing channels [00:18:20] that someone should start with?
[00:18:22] vincent: Yep.
[00:18:22] What would you say?
[00:18:23] vincent: I think start with [00:18:25] is, is the answer that I had earlier, which is where you’re the most comfortable.
[00:18:28] Right. I think. [00:18:30] If I was to take a look second to where you’re the most comfortable, I would say it [00:18:35] is, where is your avatar, your ideal customer? Where are they hanging out already today?
[00:18:39] [00:18:40] Mm-hmm.
[00:18:40] vincent: And where they’re hanging out already today is very different. [00:18:45] I mean, there are some communities that build off a print interest.
[00:18:47] I have not used Pinterest since, I [00:18:50] think my wife and I got married almost 10 years ago because that was where our wedding, you know, Pinterest [00:18:55] board was. But you know, I know somebody who, uh, they run, [00:19:00] um, they basically have like your ultimate Walt [00:19:05] Disney World guide and that actually is a business that gets a [00:19:10] lot of their business from organic Pinterest.
[00:19:13] Um, I built an app that’s [00:19:15] called Dad’s Club. So you mentioned kind of like my, you know, my passion there at trying to [00:19:20] become the best father that I possibly can be. And I’m not a parenting expert. I’m just like trying to figure it out [00:19:25] every single day doing the best that I can. When I launched the Parents’ Club app, I actually had [00:19:30] QR code flyers and pediatrician offices.
[00:19:34] Because that’s [00:19:35] where my ideal avatar was, was it was a new dad who was going [00:19:40] to either prenatal visits or, you know, newborn, uh, visits at the pediatrician’s [00:19:45] office. And so I think that’s where online can get complicated with a [00:19:50] lot of the funnels, but fundamentally it goes to, it’s a lot easier to go to where your audience [00:19:55] is as opposed to try to get them to come to you.
[00:19:57] Oh, I love that. And I think that’s good. Start with where you’re most comfortable. [00:20:00] Then two, go to where your avatar is, right? Mm-hmm. You gotta go to where your audience is, wherever that [00:20:05] may be. Yeah. Uh, and I was just, I was cracking up internally because you mentioned Pinterest, and that’s [00:20:10] how I am with TikTok.
[00:20:10] It’s like people are like, Hey, they’re always sending me TikTok videos. Hey, you gotta watch [00:20:15] this video. I’m like, I can’t see it. I don’t have an account. Yeah. And they’re like, [00:20:20] why? And I’m like, it’s just not my place. Like my avatar is not there [00:20:25] and I’m not comfortable on the platform. Right. Yeah. So it’s like I’m, I’m not present there.
[00:20:28] Totally. I can’t, can’t [00:20:30] see anything there. And I think there’s a lot of truth to that is one, you gotta enjoy what you’re doing, otherwise you’re not gonna do it. [00:20:35] Um, and two, most importantly, your avatar has to be there in order for you to actually do the thing you’re [00:20:40] trying to do. Yeah. Which is reach the person that you’re trying to serve.
[00:20:43] Yep. Um, so I think that’s really [00:20:45] wise And sage advice. Uh, what are some of the common mistakes that you see [00:20:50] personal brands making when it comes to. All that we’re talking about.
[00:20:54] vincent: Yeah, I [00:20:55] think the, one of the most common mistakes is not figuring out who you’re serving [00:21:00] and trying to be everything to everybody.
[00:21:03] You know, that that ends up [00:21:05] being something that’s really dangerous. And, you know, for anybody listening to this podcast, a [00:21:10] likely already knows brand Builders Group BBG, you know, has brand DNA [00:21:15] as a portion of, you know, how do you figure out who to [00:21:20] best serve? To take a look at the messaging to be able to serve that person [00:21:25] well.
[00:21:25] And for all of our folks who are building personal brand apps, this is [00:21:30] something that we absolutely recommend early on because you know [00:21:35] your story, you have a story in terms of who you are and the transformation that you’ve [00:21:40] had in your life. And being able to have that message [00:21:45] really resonate with somebody else.
[00:21:47] Um, there are components of. [00:21:50] You know, that personal story, how you felt and how you feel now that [00:21:55] needs to be able to end up in your messaging. And today, you know, the, [00:22:00] this is where leveraging the AI can really, really help in whether it’s [00:22:05] doing the research or, uh, tactically. Being able [00:22:10] to just generate different types of messaging to test.
[00:22:13] Mm.
[00:22:13] vincent: And you hear a [00:22:15] lot about testing when it comes to paid media, just because you can, you can [00:22:20] test with different audiences, but if somebody’s not investing in paid ads, you [00:22:25] can just as easily test in captions, right? Sure. On your Instagram posts. [00:22:30] But you know, I think social media today, a lot of it is just putting a lot out [00:22:35] there.
[00:22:35] Taking a look at what’s working and doing more of what’s working. You [00:22:40] know, there’s places like email subject lines where you can take a look at testing as well. [00:22:45] But ai, you know, it used to be that you would have to hire a copywriter [00:22:50] to be able to write out these six, seven different versions of [00:22:55] something.
[00:22:56] And today, that’s where AI allows the small and local [00:23:00] business owner to be able to have the same types of resources as a company that does have a [00:23:05] full-time copywriter.
[00:23:06] Yeah, I love that you bring that up. And I wanna say it was Gary [00:23:10] V who quoted this at an event we were at last year, and he said, no one [00:23:15] should fear ai.
[00:23:16] Taking your job. You should only fear AI if you [00:23:20] don’t integrate AI into your job. Yes. Right. It’s like it’s not gonna replace [00:23:25] jobs, it’s gonna replace people who refuse to use it in their job. Yeah. And I think that’s a lot of what you [00:23:30] just said. It’s like, I mean, it’s forcing there to be a quicker turnaround.
[00:23:34] Mm-hmm. It’s [00:23:35] forcing speed. Yeah. It’s forcing deliverability what used to be acceptable to [00:23:40] wait 30 days on a copywriter. It’s like, uh, no, I want it today.
[00:23:43] vincent: Yeah.
[00:23:44] Like end of [00:23:45] day.
[00:23:45] vincent: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I was, I was walking last week with a good friend, [00:23:50] Ashton Shanks. He’s building an AI company previously, you know, he was seven, eight figure [00:23:55] marketing agency owner.
[00:23:56] And we were talking about like how AI is going to evolve and kind of like [00:24:00] internally what we’re seeing inside of our own companies. And the biggest thing is like, [00:24:05] it’s not necessarily replace jobs, but it’s made everybody on the team more efficient. Mm-hmm. [00:24:10] And from a productivity standpoint, um. The folks on our, [00:24:15] on my team that are using AI are getting more done.
[00:24:18] In the same length of [00:24:20] time. And I think that’s been the biggest change, is that some of the really [00:24:25] highly repetitive types of work we’ve been able to leverage AI for so that [00:24:30] we can spend more time on the strategy. Yeah. And the stuff that’s actually going to move the needle [00:24:35] and you know, being able to leverage the AI is really important.
[00:24:39] I think that, [00:24:40] you know, you and I, you had just mentioned like people who are AI adverse. I think the, [00:24:45] the AI aversion, a lot of it comes from like, well, I tried it out and like it’s just not [00:24:50] good. Right. And, uh, that part has a lot to [00:24:55] do with like continuing to experiment but also feeding your own [00:25:00] content in.
[00:25:01] Yeah. I think like step one, so for anybody who [00:25:05] is listening to this saying, you know, I, I am one of those AI adverse people. Like, what [00:25:10] are the first three steps that I can take to, to try it? You know, I think a common one [00:25:15] is trying to use AI to write something for you. But if you put a prompt in and the AI just puts [00:25:20] something out where you’re just like, this is not aligned with how we write, this is not aligned with [00:25:25] how I speak.
[00:25:25] This is not aligned as my with my values. The next step after that [00:25:30] is to take the stuff that you have written or take podcast episodes and [00:25:35] transcripts of podcasts that you’ve been on. And to feed that in and [00:25:40] to help the AI understand what you sound like, how you [00:25:45] speak, and the types of things and methodologies that are aligned [00:25:50] with you.
[00:25:50] And the more and more that you do this, the AI starts to [00:25:55] understand you even better. And you know, this is no different than [00:26:00] onboarding a new employee into your company.
[00:26:01] Mm-hmm.
[00:26:02] vincent: Right? Because
[00:26:03] you gotta train ’em up.
[00:26:03] vincent: You gotta train ’em up. [00:26:05] Right. You put a job description out there, you, you know, you welcome somebody in.
[00:26:09] But on day [00:26:10] one, that person is not going to understand everything about you and your company and how you work. [00:26:15] Until you start helping that person understand that, you know,
[00:26:17] it’s literally, as you were talking, what it made me [00:26:20] think about is. AI is only gonna be helpful to you when you actually know [00:26:25] what it is you want it to do.
[00:26:26] Yes. Like with any good communication. Mm-hmm. Right. If you’re not [00:26:30] clear in the questions mm-hmm. You’re never gonna get the answers that you want. Yes. Right. If you’re not clear in what [00:26:35] results you want, then it’s really hard to give good instructions, which [00:26:40] makes the strategy part all that more important for this to even be able to help you.[00:26:45]
[00:26:45] Otherwise, it’s gonna be bad. Yes. It’s gonna be yes. Not good and people are like, oh, this is [00:26:50] terrible. And it’s like, no, it’s not terrible. Your communication to it was terrible. Mm-hmm. [00:26:55] No different than a new hire or an employee. It’s like you give them bad instructions, [00:27:00] they’re not able to do the job. This is no different.
[00:27:02] vincent: It’s no different. So in [00:27:05] 2019, my first daughter, Lily was born. She’s about five years old. Um, right now, but that was the year that [00:27:10] I started Dad’s Club and you know, with Dad’s club starting in 2019, [00:27:15] uh, early 2020, I had a copywriter on the team. And you know, dad’s [00:27:20] Club is a mobile app where it’s got parenting book, audio summaries, and I [00:27:25] had somebody that was reading those books, summarizing those books, and then writing [00:27:30] scripts.
[00:27:30] For me to like, like an
[00:27:31] actual human, do it, not like an actual
[00:27:33] vincent: human doing that. [00:27:35] Right. Okay. And you know, that costs a lot of money. A lot of
[00:27:38] money. And a lot of time. And
[00:27:39] vincent: a [00:27:40] lot of time to be able to do that. Today, if I [00:27:45] wanted to do a new audiobook summary, we’re talking about it’s 15 [00:27:50] minutes.
[00:27:50] That’s crazy.
[00:27:51] vincent: To be able to prepare for it, another 10 minutes to be able to record [00:27:55] that. And then after that, you know, it’s editing. But we’re talking [00:28:00] about something that used to take a week to be able to do, can now be [00:28:05] done in an hour, and it’s the exact same steps. You know, back then, like I [00:28:10] still had to give instructions to that writer.
[00:28:12] Sure. I still had to give feedback for revisions. [00:28:15] The only thing that’s different now is, you know, the AI is going to be more consistent, [00:28:20] is going to be faster, but you can’t skip the steps. [00:28:25] Mm-hmm. Of mm-hmm. Telling it exactly what you want it to do.
[00:28:27] Yeah, I think that’s so good. Uh, [00:28:30] and I think it’s really important that you mentioned that, that this app, right?
[00:28:33] Mm-hmm. So we, we mentioned [00:28:35] earlier that Vincent is the CEO and founder of viton, and they build [00:28:40] mobile apps. And in our unique world, they, you know, build this awesome personal [00:28:45] brand app. Mm-hmm. And I, I’d love to talk about that a little bit because I think there’s a trend Yes. Heading in that [00:28:50] direction because of all the things that you mentioned where.
[00:28:52] The algorithms on all the platforms are [00:28:55] constantly changing and will continue to change for the benefit of those platforms. [00:29:00] Mm-hmm. Not necessarily for the benefit of the content creator. Yes. As it is. Then [00:29:05] two is the, the decline trend in open rates and email marketing, [00:29:10] because you’re right. It’s like we have heard this and I’m a big believer of like, no, you have to own your [00:29:15] contacts.
[00:29:15] Right? You’re not building your audience on rented real estate for other people. Uh, no [00:29:20] offense, mark Zuckerberg or anyone else, but it’s like, I’m not trying to build your empire, right? Yeah. I’m trying [00:29:25] to create my own community. However, now with AI and all these [00:29:30] things in your inboxes, it’s like mm-hmm.
[00:29:31] They’re not getting your emails. No, they’re not opening your emails and it’s like, [00:29:35] this is a whole new world of everything that was, [00:29:40] is no more. Right? It is changing rapidly and at the speed of technology, [00:29:45] it’s like you cannot keep up and then. I think you mentioned [00:29:50] things like push notifications and mobile apps, and I think there is this [00:29:55] rise to this concept of, well, how do I consolidate all of my [00:30:00] content to make it easier for people to access, you know, my information so they don’t have to go to [00:30:05] YouTube, then Instagram, then my podcast, then X, then TikTok.[00:30:10]
[00:30:10] Um, but then also the ability to reach ’em. Yeah. So let’s talk about like what is a [00:30:15] personal brand app? When, you know, you mentioned a few of these, like Kim Kardashians happened more than a [00:30:20] decade ago. Um, what is it, what do they do and what are the trends that you see towards [00:30:25] this?
[00:30:25] vincent: Yeah, so I think the first thing is when you take a look [00:30:30] longer over the course of like a century, there are always changes [00:30:35] in how to be able to reach folks.
[00:30:37] So newspapers and the printing [00:30:40] press, like if you go back, what’s back? If you go back that long. There is the evolution of that [00:30:45] to radio, to tv, to websites, to [00:30:50] mobile apps, to the push notifications that mobile apps are able to [00:30:55] send now, and being able to evolve with them oftentimes [00:31:00] starts with the larger players in the market.
[00:31:02] That can afford it. Mm-hmm. And then [00:31:05] becomes accessible to the masses and that’s what’s happening to your point, with the [00:31:10] personal brand apps that we’re seeing now. So a personal brand app allows you [00:31:15] to be able to think about all of the things in your LinkedIn bio, right, that you put in your LinkedIn [00:31:20] bio today when somebody clicks that, they’re gonna click on one of the seven links in there.
[00:31:24] Yeah, [00:31:25] and then you may or may not ask for an email address depending on what [00:31:30] one of those seven links are, and when you get that email address, you can send [00:31:35] emails to them, but they have an open rate that’s under 50% and a click through rate, that’s like two to [00:31:40] 3%. The game changer with these personal brand apps are, if you’re listening to this [00:31:45] right now and you’re wearing an Apple watch, you get notifications on your Apple Watch.
[00:31:49] [00:31:50] If you have an Apple Home pod in your house, you get notifications on your [00:31:55] home pod, even when you’re away from your phone. But for the phone that all of us carry around [00:32:00] today, we on average spend five hours a day in our, on our phone. On our [00:32:05] smartphones, like everybody has a smartphone and 90% of that time is spent inside [00:32:10] of a mobile app.
[00:32:10] Yeah, that’s wild. And I don’t even, oh, my phone’s across the room. This is the furthest I’ve ever been [00:32:15] from my phone. But if I had my phone, you don’t even have to unlock it [00:32:20] to see the notifications. Yeah. That is in marketing, [00:32:25] the best real estate. Mm-hmm. That you could possibly have. Right now it’s closer than a billboard.
[00:32:29] [00:32:30] Somebody checks their phone, unlocks their phone 205 times a day. And [00:32:35] so this is powerful in terms of engagement. So we talked [00:32:40] about earlier in this episode, short form content, really great top of funnel to be able to build [00:32:45] awareness. It gets virality and it gets attention. Push notifications [00:32:50] allows you to go deep and to get engagement.
[00:32:53] Hmm.
[00:32:53] vincent: And what I mean by this [00:32:55] is you’re likely listening to this on a podcast right now, wherever you subscribe to [00:33:00] podcasts. If it’s an Apple podcast and you don’t listen to an episode for three weeks, [00:33:05] new episodes, don’t get downloaded onto your phone anymore. If you’re watching a YouTube video, [00:33:10] all the YouTubers always say, subscribe and hit the bell.
[00:33:12] Subscribe and hit the bell. Subscribe and hit the bell. [00:33:15] Why do we do that? Because hitting the bell gets you pushed notifications. The power of these [00:33:20] personal brand apps is consolidating everything in your LinkedIn bio all into one place. [00:33:25] Onto a property that you own in a mobile app that you own [00:33:30] that doesn’t have that algorithm between you and your audience.
[00:33:33] But the other beauty of it [00:33:35] is you might be listening to the BBG podcast. You download A BBG [00:33:40] light app, and then now anytime that there’s a new blog post, you’re getting [00:33:45] push notifications for that blog post. Anytime that there’s an online event, you’re getting push [00:33:50] notifications for that. Because it’s really hard for somebody to come into your ecosystem [00:33:55] where they may have discovered you on YouTube and they might not have any [00:34:00] idea that you have an e-commerce store, or they might know you from the [00:34:05] e-commerce mm-hmm.
[00:34:05] Store and they have no idea that you post blog posts. ’cause like [00:34:10] I’m not sitting around on blogs hitting refresh, like waiting for a new article. And so you [00:34:15] have to be able to push that content to folks so that everybody sees and [00:34:20] knows it. But when you do that, because the push notifications [00:34:25] is really about nurture and relationship.
[00:34:28] When you have an offer, [00:34:30] when you have a new program, when you have something that you’re opening up, it’s already [00:34:35] there. You’re not trying to move them to a webpage or a website from your YouTube [00:34:40] channel because everything’s already in one app.
[00:34:43] You know, it’s interesting because, [00:34:45] uh, I didn’t connect the dots.
[00:34:46] S with this earlier until you were just talking, but you know, you [00:34:50] go to the app store today, it’s like every large company has an app at this point. Yes. And this [00:34:55] is not any different than what you were talking about earlier about how the large companies have been using [00:35:00] ai, AKA software engineers Yeah.
[00:35:03] For decades. It’s just wasn’t [00:35:05] accessible to the masses. Right. And it’s the same thing with apps.
[00:35:08] vincent: And it was the same thing with websites [00:35:10] 10 years ago. Yeah. There was a point like, believe it or not, because this [00:35:15] seems like so long ago, there was a point when entrepreneurs were asking the question of, [00:35:20] should I build a website?
[00:35:21] Yeah. Right. Which seems so foreign day, which seems so [00:35:25] foreign,
[00:35:25] vincent: but at the time it was white pages. [00:35:30] Businesses were listed in the White pages, and some businesses
[00:35:34] had a [00:35:35] website.
[00:35:35] vincent: Had a website, and there were some that said, no, I don’t need that. I got [00:35:40] my phone number in the White pages.
[00:35:41] Who needs this digital thing?
[00:35:42] Who needs
[00:35:43] vincent: this digital thing [00:35:45] today? Like that’s absurd. It’s absurd. Yeah, right. We live in Nashville. Uh, you know, [00:35:50] we both live in Nashville. If we went to the farmer’s market and we saw somebody setting [00:35:55] up a new table with a new tent, there are two things that that table definitely [00:36:00] has today. They have a website, they can accept credit card, and they probably use either [00:36:05] Square or Shopify.
[00:36:06] To be able to have their online presence and accept credit card payments. [00:36:10] That is like, you would be crazy to set up a new business at the [00:36:15] farmer’s market and only take cash
[00:36:16] to it. You know, it’s so funny you say that because I only know when the farmer’s market is happening [00:36:20] because of the different digital platforms.
[00:36:22] Mm-hmm. That I follow. That alert me. Yes. Right. It’s like if [00:36:25] it wasn’t for that, I wouldn’t even know it existed.
[00:36:27] vincent: Correct. So across all the industries [00:36:30] where VI and plays today, right? So we, we want to help people live healthier, happier lives. We [00:36:35] work with, uh, brick and mortar fitness studios. We work with online fitness live [00:36:40] streamers.
[00:36:40] We work with chiropractors offices. We work with folks who, you know, teach [00:36:45] parenting strategies, have, you know, health strategies across all those [00:36:50] spaces. The number one thing that we’re seeing is this move towards the [00:36:55] apps because upstream. Right. Chipotle has an app, but if you [00:37:00] are a local restaurant and you are making salads, your consumers are making a [00:37:05] choice.
[00:37:06] Right. If you’re a local coffee shop, you know, and you take [00:37:10] a look at Starbucks’s earnings report. Yeah. Starbucks has [00:37:15] over a third of their revenue is coming from revenue inside of the mobile app. [00:37:20] Inside the Starbucks app.
[00:37:21] Yeah. That’s crazy. That
[00:37:22] vincent: is crazy. But how is the [00:37:25] local coffee shop? Get to do that?
[00:37:27] Get to do that because consumer [00:37:30] preferences are clear. 88% of consumers prefer to [00:37:35] interact with a business in their mobile app instead of the mobile website. [00:37:40] And having a mobile friendly website today is not enough [00:37:45] anymore because we all know the experience of using an app. It’s faster, [00:37:50] it’s more responsive.
[00:37:51] You’re not doing that thing where you have to like zoom in and zoom out [00:37:55] on your phone and it’s, it’s built for your phone.
[00:37:58] Mm.
[00:37:58] vincent: But the other thing that [00:38:00] happens as well is if you are thinking, my website’s already mobile friendly, that’s [00:38:05] enough. People will open up your mobile app [00:38:10] two and a half times more often than they’ll visit your website.
[00:38:13] You know, back in the day when [00:38:15] like a OL was a thing, we used to all bookmark websites, right. Today, nobody’s [00:38:20] bookmarking websites. You just do a Google search. If you need to find a company’s website, [00:38:25] if you can remember the name of the company, the app [00:38:30] icon that somebody saves onto your phone is kind of like that refrigerator magnet [00:38:35] mm-hmm.
[00:38:35] That the businesses used to send out. Right? Yeah. The refrigerator magnet [00:38:40] was a thing because it was the reminder. Yeah. For [00:38:45] you. Of that business and their phone number today, that is the app icon.
[00:38:49] Hmm.
[00:38:49] vincent: [00:38:50] Somebody unlocks their phone 205 times a day. They’re either gonna see your logo there or they’re not.
[00:38:54] [00:38:55] There’s gonna be either the red little bubble that says you have a notification or there’s not. [00:39:00] And every single day that a business doesn’t build a website [00:39:05] at that farmer’s market is a day where they’re sending their customers off to a [00:39:10] competitor. All of the analysts. And all of the big [00:39:15] companies already know this is mobile apps because the big, the big players have been [00:39:20] doing it for a long time.
[00:39:21] For a long time.
[00:39:22] And this is the opportunity for the small [00:39:25] business, the entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. The solopreneur, the content creator, the thought leader, the speaker, the author, the [00:39:30] coach to get into the space. Yes. And that’s, and that’s what I hear you saying, right?
[00:39:34] vincent: Yes. [00:39:35] And that can be a scary and daunting thing though.
[00:39:37] Mm-hmm. Right. What is [00:39:40] different now is that. Just like [00:39:45] websites are possible for small businesses to have, the mobile [00:39:50] apps are coming to be the same thing as well. You know, traditionally, if you wanted to [00:39:55] custom build a mobile app. Projects can start actually with dad’s club. When I first started [00:40:00] trying to build dad’s club, I went out and I got quotes, uh, for what it was like to build that.[00:40:05]
[00:40:05] And you know, the average quote was like 50 to 150,000. And I’m thinking, oh my [00:40:10] gosh, this is on top of the copywriter that I’m gonna need to be able to help me create the content. [00:40:15] And, uh, today. It’s possible to do that in a 10th of the price because [00:40:20] the technology has just changed.
[00:40:21] Oh, I will just tell you guys, uh, if you are a part of the Brand Builders Group [00:40:25] community, that we have two apps.
[00:40:26] Mm-hmm. Right? We have a community app, which is just our like membership [00:40:30] app. And when we were getting quotes for it, so it’s been live for two years, took us [00:40:35] a year to kind of get it live. So when I started initially getting quotes. For the BBG app was [00:40:40] probably four to five years ago, minimum quotes were coming in at [00:40:45] $250,000 mm-hmm.
[00:40:46] For us to build this custom app. And I was like, what? That’s [00:40:50] crazy. Like we’re a small business, that’s a down
[00:40:52] vincent: payment on a house.
[00:40:53] Like that’s [00:40:55] insanity. And, and also knowing it was gonna be more expensive and take longer than what they were putting [00:41:00] Yes. Just like building a house, by the way. Yeah. Um, and so then I started looking at like other [00:41:05] platforms.
[00:41:05] Like we looked at Mighty Networks. Mm-hmm. And we looked at all these other different platforms and they were all good in their [00:41:10] own right. But none of them could do everything that we needed. Yes. But even then, it was $30,000 a [00:41:15] year. In perpetuity.
[00:41:16] vincent: In perpetuity.
[00:41:17] And I’m like, and it doesn’t even do all the things we [00:41:20] wanted.
[00:41:20] Right. And so we finally kind of like piecemealed together everything and [00:41:25] created an app that almost had everything that we wanted, but not quite. But it still [00:41:30] was. I mean, it still is going to be tens of thousands of dollars a [00:41:35] year mm-hmm. To pay for that. Um, and it was also a, a painful [00:41:40] process. Not, eh, that’s just the, the, the art of technology.
[00:41:43] It’s a little bit painful. [00:41:45] And when we got introduced to you, I was like, there’s gotta, this is like, there has to be a, [00:41:50] like a trick. Like there’s, this is can’t be real because. It wasn’t [00:41:55] tens of thousands of dollars for a personal brand app. It was $2,500 at the time. [00:42:00] Mm-hmm. And I have no doubt your prices will go up over the course of time.
[00:42:03] That, but it was more than that. It was [00:42:05] done in a week. Yeah. And I was like, no way. They lie. They lie. [00:42:10] No way. Uh, because we had gone through the process. Mm-hmm. And I’m like, there’s no [00:42:15] way they’re gonna be doable, all that for this. Like, how do they make money? And it’s like, but. [00:42:20] Learning the, the process and the business.
[00:42:21] It’s like, well, that’s what good systems processes a good team. Yeah. [00:42:25] Automation, ai and actually knowing what you’re doing. Can actually help do that. [00:42:30] And I share that to go, because we invested into this and we have two apps now. We have B, [00:42:35] B, G for members, but we have B, BG Light. Yeah. Right. So this is everyone’s hint.
[00:42:38] Go down bb g, light, it’s a [00:42:40] free app. Uh, but it’s for all these reasons because we are experiencing the same things that everyone [00:42:45] else is. Like the algorithm is changing. It’s harder to reach our audience. Yeah. So the email open rates [00:42:50] are lowering, even though these are in our email list, people who’ve opted in, and it’s like, why aren’t you opening [00:42:55] our emails?
[00:42:55] Mm-hmm. Um. And so we invested in the same thing to, to solve the [00:43:00] same problem that we’re talking about. But I think what made it so appealing [00:43:05] is it, it is what you just said. It’s like what has been available and around that we’re [00:43:10] already accustomed to. We just couldn’t afford it. Mm-hmm. Is now affordable for the [00:43:15] small business owner, the solopreneur.
[00:43:17] Um, and at $2,500 there’s a pretty quick ROI [00:43:20] in just being able to talk to your customers again. Yes. To be able to reach your audience. Yeah. Like [00:43:25] that means a lot In a world where. Big business owns [00:43:30] that, right? Mm-hmm. And they get to decide when, how, and that’s not cool. Right. So this is like [00:43:35] really taking back control of your audience.
[00:43:37] vincent: Yeah. And we, we’ve spent years [00:43:40] refining the processes, to your point, to be able to make it possible to build a custom [00:43:45] personal brand app in a week. And you know, we kicked off your project on a [00:43:50] Monday. By Wednesday, we were showing you every single screen in your app. You gave us some [00:43:55] feedback on that.
[00:43:55] Wednesday afternoon, by Thursday we turned the revisions and then we were submitting the app to Apple and [00:44:00] Google on Friday. And I remember on Saturday you, we left for
[00:44:02] Mexico, you and
[00:44:03] vincent: Rory, and the family [00:44:05] left for Mexico.
[00:44:06] That’d be ready, but that’s
[00:44:07] vincent: how mu, that’s how much confidence that we had [00:44:10] in the processes because we’ve done this so many times.
[00:44:13] There’s three things [00:44:15] that really make us unique in the marketplace today. You know, our mission is to help people live healthier, happier [00:44:20] lives. And the secondary to that, and just as important is we want to make [00:44:25] this type of technology that large companies have always had access to available to every single [00:44:30] solopreneur, local entrepreneur, small business.
[00:44:33] And, uh, [00:44:35] we do that by bringing simplicity and speed to the process. Mm-hmm. So we can do this in a [00:44:40] week so that you can achieve the ROI, you know, be for many, many [00:44:45] marketing agencies. Salaries and labor is the biggest cost by streaming lining these [00:44:50] processes we’re able to bring. The amount of cost that it takes us to be able to build the [00:44:55] app and then pass all of that through.
[00:44:57] Yeah. The simplicity part is talking [00:45:00] about, we know that the process of building a mobile app can be really intimidating, which is why we [00:45:05] take on all of the technical stuff and you know, we work with [00:45:10] majority companies that do not have a chief technology officer, do not have [00:45:15] software development teams in house to be able to allow them to compete with the companies that do.[00:45:20]
[00:45:20] Yeah. And you know, the second thing is just the number of features and integrations that we [00:45:25] have allows you, to your point, to be able to tie [00:45:30] all of these different things together. That historically, if you bought a [00:45:35] branded app, you’re buying it from a company where the only thing that that app does. Is [00:45:40] provide you with a branded mobile app for whatever that company does.
[00:45:43] So you end up [00:45:45] with either an e-commerce app that only does e-commerce, a food delivery app that only [00:45:50] does food delivery, or a content app that only does content. [00:45:55] And you know, there’s. Two big trends that we’re really seeing. The first one is the [00:46:00] implementation of ai. So the BBG light app does have, um, a custom GPT [00:46:05] in it that is called Brand Bot.
[00:46:07] And Brand bot is brilliant [00:46:10] at actually helping you do the types of things that you would do if [00:46:15] you were working with BBG in a strategy session or a content intensive. And [00:46:20] you know, it’s an incredible technology to be able to get leverage. But the [00:46:25] second thing that we’re seeing from that is this shift from [00:46:30] mass content to micro personalized content.
[00:46:34] Mm.
[00:46:34] vincent: [00:46:35] And what I mean by that is, you know, when you think about, uh, [00:46:40] 10 years ago before streaming, there were only a few TV channels, [00:46:45] and chances are on during prime time, you and I, aj, were probably watching [00:46:50] the same type of show. Right. If not the same show. Like it was [00:46:55] friends or it was, you know, whatever you were watching the next day you went to work and you talked to everybody about [00:47:00] that.
[00:47:00] That’s right. That’s macro content. Mm-hmm. Right. Micro content is closer [00:47:05] to the streaming world right now where we have so many options that we’re all watching. Love [00:47:10] is Blind, so they still won that. But for the most part, like we’re watching different shows [00:47:15] based on niches and based on, you know, what you are interested in.
[00:47:19] Mm-hmm. [00:47:20] As opposed to everybody in us watching friends. The future of entertainment is [00:47:25] already heading into a space where 15 years from now, it’ll be [00:47:30] TV shows that are made for you with characters that are made for you, and you might actually [00:47:35] be the only one watching that show, but that same experience, if you [00:47:40] run an online community or you create content online, is what’s starting to happen.[00:47:45]
[00:47:45] Yeah. As well at an individual level. Because people have [00:47:50] individual questions and individual needs. And so one example [00:47:55] is like, we have an app today that’s called Worthy Self-Care. And Miz, their [00:48:00] founder, you know, has an entire philosophy around wellness and, you know, [00:48:05] they have advice about like regulating, you know, your, [00:48:10] um, nervous system or ways to be able to reduce inflammation.[00:48:15]
[00:48:15] And you know, she might get dms on Instagram for asking [00:48:20] for advice. And inside of her app now she has an AI bot that is [00:48:25] trained to not only give the responses that she would give, but it’s [00:48:30] writing out like, here’s a four point checklist with information on [00:48:35] step by step how to do something. Hmm. It’s an [00:48:40] infinitely patient version of her as well.
[00:48:43] And
[00:48:43] accessible. And
[00:48:44] vincent: [00:48:45] accessible. Accessible as well as it doesn’t sleep.
[00:48:48] Mm-hmm.
[00:48:49] vincent: And so [00:48:50] for, you know, the person who’s listening to this going like, you know, I want to [00:48:55] talk to a human, not an ai. The question that I would have is, [00:49:00] what if the AI is saying and writing the thing that the human would. [00:49:05] But is writing a much longer, more detailed version of it
[00:49:08] and giving it to you when you want it and [00:49:10] giving it
[00:49:10] vincent: to you instantly.
[00:49:12] Mm.
[00:49:12] vincent: That is an example of a [00:49:15] micro interaction, and that is where all of this technology is heading [00:49:20] because you can’t write a blog post for each individual person [00:49:25] because it’s too specific. And what AI is allowing you to do [00:49:30] is to be able to actually scale the technology to be able to make this possible.
[00:49:33] Mm, because in [00:49:35] the past, the only way that that was possible is in a very high ticket [00:49:40] offer. The where it has to be priced that way, because that’s how much time it takes to [00:49:45] deliver on that. And so just like these mobile apps are now becoming accessible, just like [00:49:50] websites have become accessible to small businesses, building AI clones [00:49:55] of the personal brand.
[00:49:56] Allows me in the middle of the night, like I might wake [00:50:00] up and go, ha, I got this idea for a new podcast. I wanna start and I’m, I’m curious what [00:50:05] AJ and Rory think about like these two names for a new podcast.
[00:50:08] Because we got opinions.
[00:50:09] vincent: [00:50:10] Because you got opinions, right? And I can throw it into the BBG light app.[00:50:15]
[00:50:15] Ask brand bot and brand bot can not only give me the [00:50:20] answer. But then like I don’t have to be embarrassed that like I gave, I, I asked a [00:50:25] question and I got the answer, but like, maybe I was like too nervous to ask that question [00:50:30] myself. Right. There’s a lot of topics where you might, yeah, that’s good. You [00:50:35] might have a question, but you might be too nervous to actually ask that question.
[00:50:38] I think, and I think that happens a [00:50:40] lot. Yeah. In all different topics. Sure. It’s like there’s lots of things we wanna ask, but we’re like, we don’t wanna sound [00:50:45] dumb or I don’t wanna be wrong. And so instead of doing the thing that we feel really called to do, I. [00:50:50] We actually just hold it in. Yeah. And we don’t even live out our life’s calling.
[00:50:53] And these are, [00:50:55] these are giving us tools to go, Hey, when you’re not completely, you know, [00:51:00] yeah. Certain about what to ask. Like this is a forum to do that. Um, so I, I wanna give [00:51:05] everyone an opportunity, um, to learn more about Viton and these personal brand apps. And so [00:51:10] if you guys are listening to the show or you’re catching up on the show notes, that you can go to the show notes and [00:51:15] grab this link and just click on it.
[00:51:16] Uh, but I would encourage you guys like, explore. All right. [00:51:20] It’s not gonna be for everyone right now, but just like social media [00:51:25] and websites, like this is not a fad. This is a trend and it’s [00:51:30] trending in a mass wide scale offering, um, that [00:51:35] everyone is likely going to need it at some point. Mm-hmm. Uh, because of this is, this is the [00:51:40] rise of the content economy.
[00:51:41] It’s like. It’s, it’s not even rising. It’s here. Mm-hmm. Right. [00:51:45] It’s a, it’s an over, it’s, it’s a flooding of the marketplace. So if you go to vien, [00:51:50] V-Y-T-E-N, [00:51:55] vien.com/bbg, then Vincent and his team will know that you heard this podcast, that you have [00:52:00] some prelim information, that you have some context around this, and that’ll help them tailor, [00:52:05] uh, this conversation to everything that you heard on the show.
[00:52:07] So. [00:52:10] viton.com/bbg. Now, Vincent, before I let you go, um, I have uh, just [00:52:15] two last quick questions. Mm-hmm. Um, for everyone. So here’s what I want to [00:52:20] ask you as you’re heading out. Uh, number one, where can people go to just connect with [00:52:25] you?
[00:52:25] vincent: Yeah, for me. So on Instagram, Vincent Faban, um, I think there will be a link in the [00:52:30] show notes.
[00:52:30] Um, the company is Viton Apps on Instagram, Viton apps. Um, as well, [00:52:35] you can also connect with me on LinkedIn.
[00:52:37] Awesome. And then what is your favorite app? [00:52:40]
[00:52:40] vincent: Oh man, that is such a great question. Like right now it’s the aura ring. [00:52:45] Oh. And so I, I’m wearing an aura ring, um, right now, and every single thing that I’m [00:52:50] doing this year.
[00:52:51] Is focused on being more rested, more restored. [00:52:55] Um, it’s been a few months since I’ve had a drink of alcohol and not because like I wanted to give up [00:53:00] drinking, but because I am like a hundred percent focused right now on just having [00:53:05] good routines and, you know, the Aura, the Aura Ring app has an Aura advisor in it.[00:53:10]
[00:53:10] And so, you know, there’s a lot of data that it gives you, and it used to be like, you’d have to read about it, [00:53:15] but just like I shared on this episode with like the micro interactions, like I can actually ask the AA [00:53:20] ring, like, Hey, my, my resting heart rate was, you know, pretty low last night. Like, what are the [00:53:25] three things that I can do to be able, uh, to improve that?
[00:53:28] And so it’s, yeah, it’s been [00:53:30] a ride that I’ve, I’ve been on, but I’m, I’ve been really excited
[00:53:34] about it. Love that. [00:53:35] And last question.
[00:53:36] vincent: Yep.
[00:53:36] What does influential mean to you?
[00:53:39] vincent: [00:53:40] Influential means to me, like going out and making an impact.
[00:53:43] Mm-hmm.
[00:53:44] vincent: And you know, [00:53:45] the, I think part of the challenge today in like to today’s society is, the word [00:53:50] influencer is different than being influential [00:53:55] because I think of an influe as somebody who’s like pedaling [00:54:00] something, whereas being influential is not with [00:54:05] a goal that is selfish.
[00:54:07] But it’s actually a goal of being [00:54:10] selfless. Mm-hmm. And going out and to be able to allow yourself [00:54:15] to serve others for the improvement of their life, not your own.
[00:54:19] [00:54:20] Oh, that’s good. I like that answer. Uh, I love the difference between influencer and [00:54:25] influential. Um, and I would say that you have been super influential in [00:54:30] our journey at BBG and continue to be for our entire community.
[00:54:34] So thank you so [00:54:35] much for being on the So show. So many great highlights, so much wisdom, and I just love learning [00:54:40] about. What’s happening in the marketplace that we don’t get to talk about in everyday life. So y’all, [00:54:45] again, go to vi ten.com/bbg. Uh, check it out. Learn about this [00:54:50] trend in personal brand apps.
[00:54:51] And if you wanna connect with Vincent, it’s at Vincent fam van. Um, and you can [00:54:55] check ’em out on all social media channels. Y’all, we’d love you. Thanks for tuning in. Uh, stick [00:55:00] around for the recap episode, which will be coming up soon. We’ll see you next time on the Influential [00:55:05] Personal Brand.
Ep 552: How To Know What Makes You Unique with Toni Collier
AJV (00:01):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast with AJ Vaden here today. I’m so excited because I’m a long time fan of who you’re gonna get to meet today. So I’m over here fangirling and so honored and so humbled to get to introduce this audience to Toni Collier, who I just love. And before I formally introduce her to you guys, as I always do, I wanna remind you of why you should stick around for this particular episode. I think that at every stage in our lives, we all have an opportunity or, you know, we just kind of get it no matter what the opportunity or the challenge to reinvent, right? And I think that in a season of all types of things happening in the world around us, and when things can look crazy on the outside sometimes we can get lost of who we are, what we wanna talk about, what we wanna be known for how we wanna be seen, how we wanna show up.
AJV (01:01):
And if you’re in one of those seasons today, then this is an episode for you, right? This is a place to recenter, refocus, and talk about what does it look like to be resilient? What does it look like to show up as a new version of you? And also how to just stand your ground regardless of what’s going on around you. So if that sounds like it might be relative to you, then this is one of those e episodes that you do not want to miss. So stick around for the entire show. Now, let me formally introduce you to Miss Toni Collier. She is the founder of the International Women’s Organization called Broken Crayons, still Color. She is a speaker. She is the host of the Still Coloring Podcast. She’s the author of two books, brave Enough To Be Broken, and I love kids books. Broken Crayons still color. So Tony, I’ll go to the
TC (01:54):
Show. Ah, it’s gonna be fun. That’s what I, it’s gonna be fun.
AJV (01:59):
And who doesn’t love a fun episode that also touches on all the things that help us learn, grow, and improve? So here’s where I wanna start. Our audience maybe new to you. And so I want them to know where did you start? How did you start building your personal brand, speaking, becoming an author? Like, some of us fall into it, some of us intentionally do it, but I think it’s always really interesting to help people know, where’d you start and how did you get to where you are?
TC (02:32):
Yeah, you know, I honestly started serving, which sounds so cliche and all fluffy, like a little care bear. But the truth is, I connected with a local church when I was 21, and I was a pretty wild girl. You know, I was the you know, popping, twerking, drinking, smoking, all in the club, doing all the things, and just stumbled upon the church, let me tell you that. ’cause I thought I was gonna be a corporate lawyer. It is what it is. Stumbled upon the church and honestly fell in love with middle schoolers and high schoolers. Like, I just love those whippersnappers because they don’t care about your feelings, okay? They don’t care who you are. They are just like, they just ooze humility because you can’t be prideful around that age because they’re just so honest. And I loved it. I loved being able to be authentically myself.
TC (03:16):
I was far from perfect entering into any type of ministry space, but there was something so beautiful about that age, because that’s when we dream and we discover and we cultivate like around our purpose. That’s what these, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers taught me. And so I just started bopping around different schools, middle schoolers and high schools speaking. The students love me because again, I just was crazy and wild and I didn’t really hold anything back. Never have, never will. And from that place, I just started getting opportunities. I always say that when you’re building a brand, it’s like building a snowball, right? Like you’re just got this little bitty snowball and it’s just going and going and your exposure and who you are around and the relationships that you build and the stages you get to stand on, it all just contributes to making a bigger snowball.
TC (04:03):
And that’s what happened. I just started ending up on stages that I probably didn’t have no business being on, but I started working with Chick-fil-A they kind of saw some of my stuff out there, and they were like, you wanna come host our conference? I’m like, are you sure? Okay,
AJV (05:08):
That’s just definition, definition of entrepreneurship right there, right? Beautiful and unbelievably hard. That’s right. You know, I wanna go back to a couple of things that you said, because I think this is a really important thing for our audience who really, for the most part, everyone listening has some, some level of desire and passion to get their message out into the world, whether it be speaking or podcasting or writing or content creation. And you said two things that are so unbelievably important that I wanna double back on these. Number one, you started speaking for free
TC (05:43):
Surprise,
AJV (05:44):
TC (05:53):
Gosh, probably for three years, honestly. And I mean, I remember the moment I got paid for my first speaking engagement, and it was after I spoke to a freaking auditorium of 200 middle schoolers. And these whipper snappers were barely even listening. And I was s not crying on the stage. And a a mom came up to me afterwards and was like, I have a women’s ministry and I’d love for you to come and do this broken crayons talk that you just did for these middle schoolers who didn’t even care about you. And I was like, what? And they were like, can you send us a contract? Can you send us a, I’m like, what are you even talking about? Like, what? I was like googling a template for a contract. Like, oh my gosh, I was just so overwhelmed. And I think I was overwhelmed because I, I didn’t believe that I deserved it.
TC (06:37):
And not from like a self-deprecating place, but from like, no, this is my passion. I would do this for free for the rest of my life. Amen. Because there’s a fulfillment that happens that’s far beyond an honorarium check or, you know, a speaking engagement. It’s, it’s really about like, what do you wanna put out into the world? And I think it’s such a beautiful indicator that we’re in our sweet spot, we’re in our purpose, we are so aligned that we could actually do it for free. And obviously there’s a business aspect to it. And I had to get a little wise, I had to get some mentors so I wouldn’t just out there doing things for free all the time because I had to make a living. But I mean, three years of serving my local community, of going to churches and schools with people that could give me nothing.
TC (07:19):
And let me tell you what I learned from that one. Obviously I learned that like, oh, I’m in my sweet spot ’cause I could do this for free. But also I think I learned that I could get better at it the more reps that I had without being prideful enough to ask for money because the reps that I got for three years speaking is why people book me now because I got so good at it, and it was for free and it was awesome. And honestly, it wasn’t for free because what I got in exchange for currency was excellence was the ability to do this really, really, really well in front of some of the hardest audiences that would fall asleep and be on their phones. And now it feels like a walk in the park because I got all those reps in
AJV (08:02):
Girl preach. Yeah. This is so important and I just wanna reiterate, and he said three years. I mean, I can’t even imagine how many dozens, if not hundreds of engagements happened in that time period. And I think that’s really important for all of you listening who’s like, oh, I have to have this fee scheduled to go speak. No, you don’t call people up, right? Yeah. Like, just call ’em. And then the other thing that I love that you said is, I got excellence in exchange for currency. And I think in a, in a day and a time where everyone’s teaching everyone how to build your personal brand, how to get booked to speak, how to make it this, it’s like we forget that before we start charging people, we need to be excellent at what we do,
TC (08:46):
Girl, girl.
AJV (08:47):
And that normally happens through doing it and doing it a lot, doing it so much that you know, what’s gonna make the audience laugh, right? What’s gonna make ’em think? And that just happens through experience.
TC (09:01):
Yeah. 100%.
AJV (09:02):
I mean, I just, I mean, I could just sit here and talk about that for the next 45 minutes, right?
TC (09:07):
AJV (09:08):
I think that is, that is what nobody wants to promote and tell you. But at the end of the day, anyone who’s in this business, this is the story they’ll give you.
TC (09:17):
Yeah. 100%. I also think that like, we forget about relational capital. It’s so funny because I think about some of those reps that I did for free, and I think about the doors that those people open for me, I was building relational capital in so many different ways to where, you know, when I always say that, you know, you’re getting good at what you do when someone mentions your name and the next thing they mention is what you do because you’re so good at it, right? Like, you’re like, oh, it’s Tony Collier, man, she’s a great speaker, man, it’s Tony Collier. Have you listened to her podcast? It’s Tony Collier. You’re like, oh, have you read her book on healing? Like those things only come with relational capital because people actually love you so much. They enjoy you so much. They know you’re not in it just for a paycheck, that they’re willing to use their relationships and their conversations to market you without you even having to be in the room. And that’s where the good stuff comes in.
AJV (10:09):
Yeah. So I wanna double down on that too real quick, because, okay, come on. Girl has said another thing that people forget, which is the importance of that relational capital. But what you said is, what I wanna highlight is be so good. This is what I heard anyways, be so good. People can’t not talk about you. Yep. And the, I think the
TC (11:26):
I’m gonna pivot a little bit to product because I know that everyone here is not a speaker, right? Like, and, and this is such a beautiful example. So in 2020, my team and I decided that we would take a lot of the blogs that we were producing, a lot of the social media content, and that we would put it into a product and we had to sit down and decide what product is it? Is it a devotional? Is it a whatever? So we created a devotional all around anxiety and abuse. That’s kind of the felt needs of our audience. We started to realize like, people are really engaging with these two topics, anxiety and abuse. And so we created a devotional around it. Then after that we were like, okay, we really would love something that creates more engagement. So we decided to create a course and everybody was at home in front of their computers.
TC (12:07):
So we were like, surely this is a great market to create a course. And so we all sat down, did some market research, started doing some story mapping with StoryBrand and all those folks. And we came up with this course and it was great. 50 videos all under five minutes because attention spans are short. A super diverse cast of people that shot videos for us. We produced a journal from it, and then we were like, okay, cool. We’re just gonna put it out there and we’re just gonna say buy this course. And no one did
TC (12:53):
I said, why can’t I sell my corpse? Like, what is happening? And he said, you just haven’t created enough relational capital and enough of a buyer’s market from your audience. And I’m like, well, how are we gonna do that
TC (13:33):
We were so excited about it. And then after night one, something crazy happened and we started getting emails and requests for like, what’s next? Like after this conference. And so we love this so much, what is next? And we transition people into the course from that free environment. But really that environment was us having a virtual lunch, you know, every single day for three days. It was us holding stories, pouring into women, giving them access to these amazing speakers and this amazing platform for free. And they loved it so much that they were like, I’m willing to pay for the course. And we’ve been doing the course for four years every year, and it’s just been so great, but I’m telling you, it’s gonna take time. It’s the delayed gratification. We think we want things and can build things very quickly, but the truth is, the work and the time that it takes to cultivate even a buyer’s market is the real work. That’s actually where it comes into play. And it’s all behind the scenes and no one sees it and then blah, blah, blah. But you gotta do it, period.
AJV (14:40):
I love that. And you know, one of the things we say to our community all the time is you wanna give 10 times the value of what you talk. It’s right there. It’s, it’s like again, it’s like you wanna have such good content that people are like, I feel guilty taking this for free. It’s like, I need to pay you. Like, this was so life giving. Like I
TC (15:01):
Need to
AJV (15:02):
Something, anything.
TC (15:03):
Yeah. But
AJV (15:04):
That comes back to you gotta have really good content, gotta know your voice. You gotta have done it a lot of times. And there’s just no way around speeding that process up other than doing it,
TC (15:16):
Doing it. That’s it. There you go. Surprise. Sorry. Burst some bubbles here today.
AJV (15:21):
You know? That’s the truth we all need to hear, right? That’s the truth. That’s the truth. We all need to hear. And I, and I love that it’s also, you’re such a great example of what happens Yeah. When you produce great stuff and you do it consistently. Yeah. And you know, it’s like you’re living your passion. It’s like, like you said, I do it for free, but I’m so good at it, people pay me.
TC (15:43):
Right. Surprise. Okay. You know, I will also say this too. That system that we’re talking about, cultivating a buyer’s market, making sure that we’re adding 10 times value, it never ends. There’d be a moment where you’ll kind of get a little prideful and be like, I can just put my product out there. It doesn’t work that way, especially if your front door is wide, because new people are always getting access to you. And so those new people all also always need to be cultivated with relationships. And the 10 times the value, it just never stops. And that’s something that I made a mistake on. I was like, I’m just gonna put the course up at this point. People know who I am, they know what’s going on, but if I wanna get new people in the course that have never experienced me, I’ve got to cultivate my relationship with them and the value that I give them in the same way that I did day one. And so it never ends too.
AJV (16:31):
Yeah. And I, I hear this phrase all the time in this digital space that we live in, and I don’t know if you’ve ever heard it, but I’d love to get your thoughts on it. When people say, you know, I just want mailbox money. I just want to make money while I sleep.
TC (16:48):
Ha passive income
AJV (16:49):
TC (17:01):
Sleep. Oh man. I, I just think, you know, it goes back to like the original like bone structure of investing and of having a really diverse portfolio. There are some things that you can use to make money. For example, I have merch and I, instead of creating my own merch and hosting it on my website, I did a partnership with an incredible company called Etch and Co two moms, they’re just so cute living their best lives. And because their business model was already a machine that was up and running, instead of doing my own merch, again, I partnered with them. So we sent them some designs, we asked them for some different colors. We got all the things. And that one thing is making money for me while I sleep, but it is because I have tapped into another machine that’s running. I can’t do that with my course.
TC (17:49):
I can’t do that with my book. I have to talk about it. I can’t do that with speaking. It is me. Okay, I’ve got to get my behind on a plane with my little suitcases and I’ve gotta do the job. And that’s just not passive. But I can have passive income if I master my partnerships. And I think our portfolio, so many Ps here, our portfolio has to be diverse enough so that again, this snowball is being built around all of the different streams that we have. And yeah, it’s just not one thing. You’re just not gonna have one little thing that’s making you money. It’s gonna be a diverse portfolio of things that will bring in money in different ways. So yeah.
AJV (18:26):
So lemme talk about that. When did start diversifying, because you don’t, I talked about this, say, I know
TC (18:33):
I this the other day. I talked about this the other day with my friends. I was like, I’m, I’ve got so many irons in the fire, I don’t even really know when it happened. But I think I, I think it’s a mindset of I want as many people to have access to what I have to offer in as many ways. And because I know that everyone is intricately created differently and they’re consuming information. I mean, for me, like I’ve got severe A DHD Okay. And I have decided not to take the medicine. So I’m just out here floating around like a tele tubby. Okay. And what that means is, for me, like I can’t read a book like a physical book, which is crazy because I’m an author, right? But I have to listen to it. It just is what it is. We’re not gonna finish it.
TC (19:14):
I’m consuming books through via the audio book. And so if an author has a great book that everyone recommends, I’m like, I’m not gonna read it unless it’s an audiobook. And so creating different streams I think is, this is gonna be a bold statement. I think it’s actually less about how much money you can make and how much we can build this portfolio. And really it’s about how much access you can give different types of people to be hooked into what you have to give. It’s about creating hooks for different types of people. And I think if you focus on that, if you focus on who’s my audience, who can have access to what I have to give, how can I build something for them that fits in their sweet spot? Okay, I’m gonna create a podcast now because I got mamas that are following me, single mamas that are following me that don’t have time to read no book, but they can listen to a 30 minute episode and at the end of the episode they can text the word hope to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and get a freebie. That’s only, you know, a quick read. And so I think if we begin to cater to these different audiences, I call them hooks. If we create different hooks for people with different places and different lifestyles, then I think we’ll look up, like I looked up the other day and be like, oh, I got all these different streams. I got this book, I got that book, and why are my nets getting wider and wider? But it’s not at all about me. It’s about who I can serve and how I can get to them.
AJV (20:35):
And I think that’s the key, right? It’s like you got real clear on the who and then said, how else can I serve this? This who, right? And I think most people, when you think about diversified revenue streams, it’s like, it’s not all the same audience. Yeah. And then it feels like work. ’cause It is, it’s a lot of stuff to keep up with. Yeah. So I would be curious to hear from you, like, yeah, there’s, there’s been an evolution in your journey of the who, right? Yeah. Clearly your who today is not who, when you started with middle schoolers, right? How did you find your who and how would you encourage other people to find theirs?
TC (21:11):
Yeah. I did this. So I did a couple things strategically, I hired a life coach from the Tom Patterson Institute. Her name is Emily Johnson. She’s incredible. Her husband, Chad Johnson works really closely with the John Maxwell Institute, and they’re just incredible people. And I saw the fruit of their life and I was like, Emily, please help me. I want what you guys got. What’s going on? And so the Tom Patterson Institute, if, if you guys don’t know, it’s just this hub for life planning. There’s life coaches all over the United States helping people to really hone in on like, what are you doing? What’s your message? What are you, all the things, you know, the purpose driven things. And in that meeting, honestly, I left and well, it was two days I left and I was so discouraged because out of that process, I discovered that it actually wasn’t middle schoolers and high schoolers, that it was grown women and grown women made my armpit sweat.
TC (22:05):
Okay. Because I’m just, I’m very playful. I’m really goofy. Like I’m very business oriented. But people get like the playful, goofy version of me. And then I get into a boardroom and they’re like, oh crap. Like she’s actually really like smart. And I’m like, you know,
TC (22:53):
I got about three to five friends, really close friends that know me, that have known me for a while, and I ask them two questions. Number one, what’s special about me? Like what gifts and talents do I have? And number two, what gifts and talents do I have that impact the world? What happened was I got all these texts back and I put it on a whiteboard, and I started to circle all the consistencies. You’re a great communicator, you’re super funny, you’re a really hopeful person. Like you are always looking at the glass half full. Like all those things you make women feel really safe, which is where the women thing came. And I was like, dang it, it is women. Darn it. It’s adults. And I took all those things and I just really processed it. And let me tell you what it helped me do.
TC (23:37):
It helped me realize that I’m not a singer, because there are some people that’s like, this is my gift. I a hundred percent know that I’m supposed to be a singer. I’m the next Adele. And you text your friends and you find out that no one actually says that you’re a great singer, that it’s not actually your gifts and talents for the people out there that’s like, I’m a chef, I’m whipping and serving in the kitchen, and you text your four to five friends and none of them text back that you cook. Great. That’s not it. Because the people that are closest to you have already been impacted by your gifts and talents. They know, they know what you do that can actually impact the world. And you gotta listen to that and hone in on that and trust that that’s what you gotta pick, trusted people. And that was like two of the things that I did that was like, oh dang, okay. So I’m like a hope coach, communicator girl for women. Cool. How can I build around that? And that’s what I did,
AJV (24:32):
TC (24:41):
Uhhuh
AJV (24:41):
You know, like, who would, who would give me the honest truth, right? Mm-Hmm.
TC (24:52):
Right. Don’t send it to your mama. Do not send it to your mama. Who gonna tell you that you everything you wanna be okay. Because she been lying to you from day one. I’m
AJV (24:59):
Just kidding. Like, I’m like, I’m like, but, but some truth, there’s some truth to that, right? There’s some truth to that. I know, I know. My dad is,
TC (25:05):
Tell me the truth. My dad will tell me the truth now. So you may have a parent that’s like, no, that you ain’t good at that. Okay,
AJV (25:11):
But I think that’s an important part of this is like, don’t send it to be people who tell you what you wanna hear, right? Mm-Hmm.
TC (25:23):
Correct?
AJV (25:24):
Yeah. That’s good. Now you should, oh, go ahead.
TC (25:27):
Sorry. My bad. I get so passionate about this stuff, I forgot. I love
AJV (25:30):
It. I love, but you know what I love about this is like, this is on the honest truth.
TC (25:34):
Yeah.
AJV (25:35):
Like, people think there’s like some like, secret behind all of this. And I was like, no, it’s not.
TC (25:39):
It’s,
AJV (25:40):
It’s hard work. I would also
TC (25:42):
Say this, like, I think we, we have to become less offended with our, with our dreams and aspirations because I, I need for my dreams and aspirations for my books to be in the fire because I want it to be the best. Mm-Hmm. And so I, like, I have to lay my pride aside when it comes to who I want to be and what I want to accomplish. Because it’s in that space of humility where we get better, where we can take the criticism truly. Like, again, there were just things that I, I mean, it was really hard for me to let youth and students go. It was like my sweet spot. I’m funny, I’m crazy. I kind of like to dress like the young people like it. I was so comfortable in it. But pride said, I’m gonna stay what I’m comfortable in versus what I’m called to. And I don’t want that. I, I wanna be wherever it is that I’m supposed to be, not where I’m comfortable. So I will, I just wanna put that little note in there, guys. Okay.
AJV (26:41):
Yeah. You know, what am I, my personal life mantras, because that with me for a really long time is that your comfort will always hold you back from your calling.
TC (26:52):
Surprise, you know, again,
AJV (26:54):
Again. And, and sometimes like if you’re not willing to step into it, it’s gonna show up anyways. And then it’s gonna be a painful, a painful evolution process versus an intentional one. Now you, you mentioned authenticity, so let’s just talk about that for a second. ’cause I love that you’re so vocal about, hey, like, people really misconstrue, misconstrue my business savvy until I get into the boardroom. It’s like, you think I’m this, but there’s this other stuff.
TC (27:21):
I know, I
AJV (27:22):
Know. And I, and I love that because I think a lot of people make a lot of unnecessary assumptions. We all do every day. But I love what you said, it’s like, I refuse to give, give up my authenticity. And so I’d love to hear why, where did that come from and how can other people develop that same level of commitment?
TC (27:42):
Oh, well I can only speak into this because I’ve done it wrong. Right? Like, you only get authority when you start doing stuff wrong and you’re like, well, that didn’t work. I’m a recovering people pleaser that it is what it is. I’m a recovering people pleaser. My counselor one time said, you’re like a little chameleon. Like you’ll just blend in. It’s because you wanna make people feel comfortable, which is commendable. That’s the gift side of it. The shadow side is at the expense of who you are, you will blend in at the expense of who you are. And honestly, like I’m super extroverted. My friends, 110% of middle school called me a tele tubby. I’m loud. I have a really strong loud laugh. I, I’m, I just have a lot of energy and I’ve always felt like, man, I have some insecurities around. I’m just too much for people.
TC (28:31):
Like, they are getting so shocked it when I roll upon an introvert, they’re like, their eyes look like, please someone save me. Like from this girl. Like, it’s just a lot, you know? And I remember when I first got into ministry, and again, I didn’t get saved till I was 21. Like, it took me a whole long time to get into any type of church thing. But you know, like the pastor and his wife, it was a really foreign space to me. It was like, they were like the king and queen, you know? And I had no idea. I had no idea at all. And I went, they, they took me to this conference and I was so excited. I was like yelling. I was bopping around everywhere. And I saw the pastor’s wife and I’m like, Hey girl. And I like rubbed her face.
TC (29:10):
I did it. I took my hand, I rubbed the side of her face, and I was like, here’s o okay girl. And she, and it was like, I was probably gonna be fired the next day. Like, it was like not okay. And there are some really unhealthy aspects of that type of culture, you know? But I like really just messed all up in her personal space because I didn’t know. And I was also in staff meetings all the time with all the ideas, talking over people. And I remember my mentor was like, for the next two staff meetings, you have to be quiet. You don’t get to say anything at all. And I was like, at all, but my ideas are great. What do we mean? Like, I can contribute to this environment. He is like, no. What I was learning in that time was that I can absolutely be myself.
TC (29:52):
I have to have boundaries around that, that there is an appropriate time and place to do and say certain things. And really, I was just becoming mature. I was so young in ministry, just like doing my best, trying to do whatever. And I think over time what I realized is when you enter into new spaces, there is a level of humility that you have to have. And it’s not at all dimming your light. It’s leaving space for you to grow and learn. Mm-Hmm.
TC (30:43):
So over time, I just learned how to balance that really well. And now I think I’m at a place where I have so much authority that I have the freedom to just be myself. And it has been so beautiful. People love it. They’re like, you are nuts. Like, we don’t actually know what’s happening right now. It’s weird to me that you can be super deep and be on a stage talking about the hardest things and walk me through my healing journey. And then you’re like cackling for 50 minutes because you are sitting in a quiet meeting and you’re not supposed to be telling the joke, you know? And you told the joke and now you’re like crying, laughing. So I love that. And I love that people say all the time, like, Tony, I just feel so free around you. Like I can actually be myself. And I think it’s because I am being myself. And it gives people their permission to be themselves. And you want people to buy from you, learn from you, grow from you. Give them the freedom to be themselves by being yourself. Oh my gosh. It changes the game and it’s been beautiful.
AJV (31:43):
Well, this needs to be like a quote on a poster somewhere. Being yourself allows others to be their selves.
TC (31:50):
And there you go.
AJV (31:51):
I mean, that needs, that needs to be on your next merch right there.
TC (31:54):
All right, I’m gonna do it. I’ll tag you
AJV (31:58):
But, but, but you’re, but you actually do this. You don’t just talk about it. You do this. And you have recently been through some really public trials. And one of the things that I, I think I’d love to kind of talk about, and this kind of relates to some of your content and what you spend a lot of time talking about, which is a big part of your personal brand. But what I have found is that a lot of people that we get to engage with, with our company, brand Builders group, and probably a lot of people listening to the show, they try to hide the hard parts.
TC (32:28):
Yeah.
AJV (32:28):
And I think this is connected to the conversation around authenticity, right? Yeah. And it’s like we, we wanna show all the good stuff we’ve done and all the great accomplishments, and then we just kind of, of like to like cover up the really hard and difficult parts because we’re guilty, shameful whatever, whatever, embarrassed, who knows, whatever, all the things, right? Right. But you, you haven’t and you don’t. And so can we just talk about like what’s the value Yeah. And sharing the hard parts of our journey.
TC (33:00):
Yeah. I love this question for so many reasons. There was a girl on our course call or woman, I dunno why I say girl, there was a woman in our course call last night. Literally last night I started my new women’s course cohort group. And we have this thing, the strategy called story liturgy, where you just tell all your business or, or a specific pain point. And instead of responding with solution, we all respond with how their story made us feel. And we do rounds and rounds and rounds of that. And I always go first always, and I talk to them about something, you know, that, that I’m battling through right now with my daughter. And it was hard. I was like tearing up. I was like, blah, blah la and I just had like this outer body experience and thought, I wonder what these women are thinking right now that they signed up for this course and healing.
TC (33:52):
And I’m finding hope. And the leader starts off by telling like a really hard part of her story that just happened that’s, that she’s literally in right now. And the first little feeling is like the remnants of shame. It’s like, it, it’s that, it’s what you’re talking about. It’s what society has done. It’s like, wait, wait, wait. You can’t be imperfect in front of your audience, in front of your followers, in front of you, et cetera, et cetera. Like that’s the first little thing. And then because I’ve been doing this for so long, the truth comes out and says, no, no, no. The reason why they’re here is because for some odd reason, in the midst of all the hard you’re going through in your vulnerable, crazy, broken, painful filled moments, you still have hope. Mm-Hmm.
TC (34:47):
They can’t see the mountains of hope that you’re standing on unless they can actually be exposed to the deepest, darkest valleys that you’re going through. Because I wouldn’t have, I said this earlier, I wouldn’t have the authority to tell them that healing is on the way that hope is on the way if I didn’t experience it myself. Amen. I can truthfully and honestly say I have seen the goodness of the Lord in the land of living. I have seen healing, I’ve seen redemption. I’ve seen my actual neurons in my little brain on a screen change and grow and heal and mend because I’ve been through some of the hardest things. And you just don’t need hope unless you’re in a valley. And I need them to know that I have the authority to speak on this because I’ve walked it over and over and over and over again. The greatest products, the things that we purchase always comes behind a felt need. Always. We’re all gonna get a little zoom camera because our MacBook cameras are whack and they’re blurry and they look stupid. So I’m gonna go buy the thing that they’re selling because I’ve seen the dark side of it. I’ve seen what life is like without a great little 4K camera attachment. Okay. And I’m gonna buy 17 of these suckers because I wanna look like Beyonce. Okay. On the thing. So don’t
AJV (36:09):
We all.
TC (36:10):
Yeah. We all. And so we have to show people what life is like without the thing that we’re producing, selling, putting on the market. We have to because it makes the very thing that we’re selling, producing, presenting so worth it if they can see why they need it. And that’s, that,
AJV (36:29):
That’s so good. And, and you know, it doesn’t matter. And I’ll just give you like a quick personal example. It’s like, doesn’t matter how many times I speak or what I talk about, the moment that I share the hardest parts of my life, the parts that I’m most embarrassed to talk about or used to be. Right. Those are the things that every single time people Thank you. That
TC (36:51):
Was Thank you. Because I connect deeply through pain. Yeah. Period.
AJV (36:56):
I can’t remember anyone ever coming up to me and be like, aj, I just love about all your accomplishments. Oh my gosh.
TC (37:03):
Oh my gosh. My kid got straight A too. My kid got straight A’s too girl. I was like, okay. No, nobody
AJV (37:10):
Says that ever. Not once has anyone ever come up to me and was like, loved hearing about all your success was so good for me. Like, this isn’t happen. It just doesn’t happen. And I think if we can all remind ourselves that it’s like the, the hard parts are there for a reason. They’re there for a purpose. And there is always purpose in the pain. Like always. Yeah. Always,
TC (37:32):
Always. Yeah. Well, it’s never worth it, but it’s also never wasted. And there’s so many studies around what we do with our pain is the litmus test of the pain that we’ve been through. It’s what we do with it. It’s the life of meaning. On the other side, it’s like, how can I take this thing? I mean, it’s my whole thing. Like, I mean, honestly my whole entire everything, ministry, whatever, all the things that I produce, the catalyst of everything I do is my pain. Hmm. Privilege. And it doesn’t make it worth it now, but I for sure know that none of it’s wasted. None of it.
AJV (38:10):
You know? That’s so good. And this is slightly an off topic question. Ready?
TC (38:16):
I ask you, let’s do a rabbit
AJV (38:17):
Trail, because I’m always looking for little cracks to talk about some of this stuff.
TC (39:25):
Mm.
AJV (39:25):
Where’s that come? That’s good. Where’s that come from?
TC (39:27):
Well, this is another one of those. I’ve done it wrong and I’m back and I’m doing it again. You know, I’ve only been on the Salvation Bus for like 12 years, you know, like I spent most of my life drunk, high, sleeping with everybody’s son doing all the things, you know, partying. And when I first got saved, all of my faith was in a pastor, a person. I just, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. Look at this pastor. He is like preaching. He’s giving me opportunities to be a youth pastor and to like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And I remember one time the, the first time that something felt a little off was when I was having a conversation with him and he said, you know, only one tree can be planted in a church, in this church house.
TC (40:15):
And I’m that tree and you are a branch. And so the further up I go, the further you will go. So you gotta stay connected to me so that you purpose can grow. And I just remember being like just this young 20 some odd year old, like that feels really weird. And especially it’s not biologically correct because trees actually planted by each other helped to strengthen each other. So I’m a little confused here buddy. And I realized that I had put my faith in a man and not a savior. And I was. I was like, when stuff got weird, when I asked for a break time off from the ministry, it was like, no, where are you going? You’re building your own kingdom. You’re doing this. It just got so weird. And when I decided to transition from the church with no ill intent at all, the pastor completely cut me off and I completely cut my faith off because it was stored up in a man and not a savior.
TC (41:10):
And I remember around, so that was around 24, 25 and I’ve been saved for four or five years. And I was, you know, singing all the little songs on Sunday and living a reckless life Monday through Saturday. You know, going to church hung over like just crazy wild. Didn’t know what I was doing. There was no discipleship there. And I remember at 24, 25 when I was going through my divorce, my first divorce, I’ve been divorced twice. And my ex-husband was very violent. He would just rip doors off the hinges and I ended up having a little girl and I had to, you know, just create some safety and stability for her. And I remember I went to God and I was like, bro, you gotta show up like straight up. Like you need to fix this. I have done nothing wrong. I am, well, I mean, I did some crazy stuff, but I did not like I’ve been serving you.
TC (42:02):
I’ve been trying like I am new in this faith thing and this just sucks. Like all this sucks. And I would say it probably was like my deconstructing kind of like period. And I was just like, you gotta show up. Like if you are real out here, if you out here bringing people from the dead, healing people that can’t walk, like you gonna have to heal my life. Okay? And what’s interesting is I look back at that now and I’m like, you were so feisty. And that was okay. ’cause God was like, alright, I’m gonna show you. And over the next couple of years, between 24 and 26, I started having these wild radical encounters, like stupid stuff that was just like, Lord, is this sorcery? You know, like what is happening? Like just people I would meet and scriptures that would pop up and all these real, I call them God winks now because I’m like, oh, he’s playing chess up there.
TC (42:51):
Beautiful. and it changed me because then, and now my faith is in a savior who created the entire universe who’s just as off as me and mad as me and sad as me about this crazy broken fallen world with all this free will and people being all ugly and nasty and ratchet and all the things. And I needed 24-year-old Tony to 3-year-old Tony to actually have a faith that was grounded. Not in an institution or whatever, but in a savior who came back from the actual dead. Okay. After three days. And I needed that because this past year I was married to a pastor, we had planted a church, and last year I got a FaceTime call from him that he was being extorted by a prostitute
TC (43:55):
And then it wasn’t real. And it was so close to home and so close to my faith. And it didn’t impact my faith because my faith wasn’t in a husband who was a pastor standing on a stage. It was in a savior. And I gotta tell you, while the healing journey this past year or so, especially with my kids being a single mom now, has been horrific. Because you try to go through a divorce, but babe, you try to go through a public one without, it’s your name all over the internet. It is insane. And I have chosen not to share all the things that have happened publicly to protect my kids, but my God, it was terrible. And my faith has never felt stronger. And it’s,
AJV (44:43):
That’s pretty
TC (44:43):
Cool. Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
AJV (44:46):
But that’s the result of knowing where to put your faith.
TC (44:51):
100%. And I get a little feisty sometimes, honestly, because I’d be like, you really think some little measly human can have my faith? Mm-Hmm,
AJV (45:00):
TC (45:01):
You playing around. You playing around. Not when God has provided for me and my kids in ways that no man could not, no, no, no. Not when, not when the Lord, not when I’ve seen miracles in my mother’s life who has had so many health issues and have almost died and been brought back to life. And little things that don’t even make sense in her body. No. So sorry. You can’t have it because it’s not yours in the first place. So that’s my take on the thing.
AJV (45:30):
I love that I, as you were talking, it made me think about this song take It All Back by Torin Wells and Y’all Dunno, this song by Torin Wells. It’s all together. It’s my anthem cry. It’s my battle song. And it’s like that whole thing. It’s like, I’m gonna take back what the enemy stole. It’s not yours. You can’t have it.
TC (45:51):
You have it.
AJV (45:52):
I pray. I pray for your level of faith for every single person in the world and speci specifically over our country right now. And then oh yeah. Pray for that level of restoration, of reckoning of who it belongs to, who’s who it is. Like that is such an inspiration on so many different levels. And also it’s, that’s the kind of faith that’s rewarded and it’s not rewarded in necessarily worldly things, but it’s rewarded. Knowing nothing in this world can shake me. So bring Wow. You know, that’s the type of faith that hurt people search for long, for listen to find. Yep. So thanks for being open about it. Thanks for being vulnerable about it. And honestly, thanks for, for walking the path. That’s really hard. And not losing what’s so important.
TC (46:43):
Yeah. ’cause it is important. It’s the only thing. Yeah. When you don’t have anything, it is the only thing. Yeah. And it’s more than enough, huh? How about that? You don’t have anything at all. It’s the only thing. And it’s more than enough. I know. It’s all that you actually need. What a gift. Dang.
AJV (47:01):
That’s so good. And sometimes you only know it when you go for those dark valleys, which is why again, it’s like the pain is never wasted. It’s how we choose to see it. It’s so good. I could, I know I could blabber on for a while here with you, but I know our time is coming up. We have to get ourselves
TC (47:18):
Together here.
AJV (47:19):
Y’all please check Tony out. Just go to her. Instagram is like a central hub on social media. It’s Tony with an IJ Collier. You’ll get this in the show notes. But Tony j Collier is her handle on Instagram. You can also go to tony j collier.com, which you can find all the things and all the places. So this is just a, a personal shout out of follow, learn
TC (48:33):
I like it.
AJV (48:34):
You and I, this is just something because so many people have this passion and desire to do it. I personally know that the journey to writing a book, becoming an author and doing all the things is not, not easy. Yeah. And I think it’s always important to ask people who have written a book, why did you decide to do a book?
TC (48:55):
This is the wor this is the hardest decision I probably ever made outside of switching from students to women. Because I kept saying, why would I write a book? Why would I write 50 to 60,000 words? I don’t even wanna write a paper in school. Who’s gonna read my book? Blah, blah, blah, blah. I wrote a book because when I leave this Earth, which could be tomorrow, and I’m totally fine with with it ’cause I’m absolutely ready to go be with Jesus. I want what I’ve overcome to live on beyond me. Hmm. And sitting up at my laptop with severe A DHD trying to work in coffee shops and in my little office nook and in my bed and on planes and typing out 50 to 60,000 words is worth thinking that one day, my kid, her kids, I don’t want my son to have kids because I’m territorial over him and I don’t want him to have a wife.
TC (49:50):
May, but maybe his kids
AJV (51:25):
It’s worth it. Yeah. I love that. And I hope that gives everyone a good heartfelt reminder of the, that thing that you feel in your heart and your soul. It’s there for a reason. Don’t ignore it. Get those words on paper. Paper. Y’all like, put it out there. There’s somebody out there who needs it. You may never know who it is, but they need it and they need to hear it from you. Tony. So good. One of the best interviews I’ve had all year. Yay. So good. So many amazing golden nuggets, y’all, this is one last call to action. Go follow Tony on Instagram, Tony j Collier. I’ll put it in the show notes again, and for the rest of y’all, stick around for the recap episode. It’ll be coming up next. And we’ll see you next time on the influential Personal brand. See you later y’all.
TC (52:12):
Bye
AJV (52:14):
See you. All right
Ep 547: What Most People Get Wrong About Personal Branding | Jamie Hess Episode Recap
RV (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. There’s
RV (00:34):
A great irony and personal branding, great irony. And the great irony is that your personal brand is not about you. It’s not about you. And the reason some of you are reluctant to go all in on this and is because you go, ah, I, I don’t wanna be vain. I don’t wanna be braggadocio. I, I don’t wanna try to look like I’m trying to be famous. That’s when you’re thinking about yourself. But you don’t do that when you’re thinking about helping other people. When you think about helping other people, you go, who’s out there that has something to learn from me? Who can I teach? Who can I add value to? See, a great personal brand is not self-centered. A great personal brand is service centered. It’s not about how does my outfit look? What do I look like on camera? Is the audio perfect?
RV (01:21):
Sure, we wanna work on those things. But is that what it’s about? No freaking way. Not even close. You don’t break through the wall because everything is perfect and pristine. You break through the wall ’cause people trust you. They trust you because they can see that you care about them. They know that you care about them. ’cause you’re doing things to help them. You’re adding value to their life without asking for anything in return. That’s the power of the digitization of your reputation. That’s the power that’s available today more than any other time in human history. It’s easier. We all have access to it. The only thing holding you back is the crap in your own head. And that’s the part we gotta get past. Because you know, and, and I wanna tell you like don’t focus on monetizing everything. Don’t be so focused on like, I gotta make a bazillion dollars for this ’cause I, money is good. We like money, but we say we serve mission driven messengers. We, we care about money, but money is subservient to the mission. We care about revenue, but revenue is subservient to reputation. We care about income, but income is subservient to impact. Because when you are selling, there are wins and losses. When you’re selling, there are wins and losses. But when you are serving, there are only wins.
RV (02:36):
When you are serving, there are only wins. You cannot lose. You cannot lose. You only win. You only get value. You only get goodness. You only get referrals. You only get trust. And I’m telling you, sooner or later you will get money too. You can throw yourself fully into serving other people. Who should you serve? The person you once were. ’cause you’re most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. So the challenge is, or the question is, what challenge have you conquered? What obstacle have you overcome? What setback have you survived? What tragedy have you triumphed over? What problem have you solved? What path have you been down that you can help other people? That is where you win. It’s not followers, it’s not money, it’s not any of the va. How many books do you sell? What promotion you get, what your title is, it’s the service of the other people.
RV (03:28):
And you can do that for free. You can do that right now. Nobody can stop you. And what’s amazing is something new, shows up your highest self. The payoff is your highest self. Your highest self is to be your highest value to others. And that’s what it takes to break through the wall. It takes passion, it takes concern, it takes care. It takes confidence. It takes somebody going. What breaks your heart? What you off? What makes you sad? What makes you cry? What is the thing you look out in the world and you go, I’m not okay with that. I’m not comfortable with that. I won’t allow that to happen on my watch. ’cause I can do something about that. And I believe that that is God’s divine design of your humanity. That you, the things that break your heart, break your heart for a reason. Because you were created to do something about that problem. You were created to serve that person. The heartbreak that you experienced was the very vehicle preparing you to do the purpose of your life, to be the person that you were created to be. And the only reason you wouldn’t listen to that is because of fear. And there, and there’s only fear one time when you’re thinking about yourself. Fear is such a self-centered concept. But there is no fear when the mission to serve becomes clear. There is no fear.
RV (04:55):
So find the person, find the problem, create the focus. Go out and serve the person you once were and become every single thing you were meant to be.
Ep 531: The Three Parts of a World-Class Presentation | Jennifer Kem Episode Recap
RV (00:06):
Welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast. This is the place where we help mission-driven messengers, just like you learn how to build and monetize your personal brand. My name is Rory Vaden and I’m the co-founder of Brand Builders Group, a hall of fame speaker, and New York Times bestselling author. And this show is to help experts learn how to become more wealthy and well known. I know you’re gonna love it. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. There are three key components to a world class presentation, and most people don’t even know what they are. So let me walk you through it. The first one is your content. The content of your presentation is the base. The second one is the charisma, and the third one is the circumstance. I’m gonna explain each of ’em to you in detail. So first, there is the content. The content is the basis of your presentation, no matter how funny you are, and no matter how inspiring you are, if your content is lame, it’s not gonna be an amazing presentation.
RV (01:14):
People will say, oh, that person was really funny, or They were really entertaining, but it didn’t change my life. And no one’s gonna invite you to come speak or hire you or recommend you. Beyond that, typically. So how do you make great content? Well, the way you make great content is to forward the thinking that’s already been done. So content is about having a clear message and making sure that the, the people in your audience know exactly what to do when they’re done hearing you, and that you share a balance of stories and education, what we would call frameworks, visuals, charts, tables, illustrations that help emphasize the point that you’re making. And in a perfect world, it’s original thought leadership, accompanied by what we call pillar points that are written by you, these catchphrases that you made up that no one has ever heard because they came from your mind.
RV (02:09):
The second part of a great presentation is charisma. It has to do with your delivery. How funny are you? How inspiring are you? How engaging are you? Being a masterful storyteller is one of the most important skills of charisma. Also, learning how to use the stage, learning the psychology of laughter, and how to tell jokes. Learning how to use your voice to command the audience. Learning how to use gestures, learning the, the mastery of the mechanics, of the professional trade of speaking. By the way, if you ever want to learn more about coaching with our team on how to be a better presenter, just click on the link around this video and I’ll set you up with a free call with one of our strategists. Third part of a great presentation is the circumstance, and this is the one that almost nobody knows about or thinks about.
RV (03:01):
The setup of the room in which you are speaking has a tremendous amount to do with the experience of that event. It is one third of the power of that experience, and that presentation is dependent upon the circumstances of the room. Now, when we talk about circumstance, we’re talking about lots of things like how close is the stage to the first row of the audience. The further the distance, the stages from the audience, the less connection you have, the less intimate the experience will be. It also includes things like the height of the ceiling. The more space there is between the tops of the heads of the people and where the ceiling is, the more energy that is lost and absorbed into empty space, rather than having that energy transmitted through the audience, creating a powerful experience. Also, the space between people in the room, right?
RV (03:57):
If you have a room of a thousand people and only a hundred are there and they’re all spread out, that’s gonna create a less than desirable experience. Other things include the time of day. The, the earlier you speak in the morning, if you speak very early, sometimes people aren’t awake yet, or sometimes they’re hungover, or if it’s late at night, they’re just thinking about going to bed, or maybe they’re thinking about going to the bar. So the time of day that you speak matters a lot. And then also who’s in the audience? Believe it or not, female audiences laugh a lot more than male audiences. So if you’re ever in front of an all male audience and you don’t get a lot of laughter or engagement, don’t be alarmed by that. That’s perfectly normal and typical for most all male audiences. All female audiences are my favorite.
RV (04:44):
Put me in front of an arena of 10,000 women at a direct sales conference, and we will literally make the walls shake with laughter and fun and have an awesome time. How well do the people in the room know each other and how well do they feel connected to each other? Has a lot to do with the power of the experience. The closer they are to one another, the more impactful the presentation tends to be. The more that they are strangers or feel only distantly connected, the harder it is for you to connect with them. All of these elements are related to circumstance which affect the connection you have with the room. So these three elements, the content, your charisma, and the circumstances of the setup determine the connection that you have with the audience. The more you maximize each of these three areas, the stronger the connection.
RV (05:36):
The more powerful the experience, the less effective you are at maximizing each of these three areas. The lower the connection will be and the lesser the overall experience for the audience. So if you want to have an amazing presentation, you first have to have amazing content, but content alone is not enough. You wanna layer on top of that the secrets of charisma. This is some of the things that we help people do for a living. It’s being charming and engaging and inspiring and motivating and entertaining and funny and, and touching people emotionally. But then also it’s controlling the circumstances, setting up the environment, do those three things, and I promise your presentations will go to a whole new level.
Ep 491: Creating Content for the Next Generation | Eevi Jones Episode Recap
AJV (00:02):
Have you ever thought about writing a kid’s book? If you have, then I would encourage you to stick around for the next five minutes. Writing a kid’s book is one of the things that I’ve always had a passion to do. I have not yet done it, but my husband had this spiritual download from the Lord about two years ago. And while we were putting our kids to bed one night, he literally in the middle of putting my two toddlers at that time, two and four down, he said, babe, I have to go. And he just leaves the room disappears. I finished putting my kids down and about 45 minutes later I’m like, where is he? And he emerges out of all places out of the bathroom, right? I guess where it’s for all great things happen for him. And he said, babe, I just wrote a kid’s book.
AJV (00:42):
And I was like, I’m sorry, you just wrote a kid’s book sitting in the bathroom. What are you talking about? And he goes, I want you to read this. And he hands me his phone and I hold up his phone and I start reading this thing that he just wrote. And lo and behold, he was right. And about 30 minutes, he had written an entire kid’s book. Now, the point is not that he did this in 30 minutes, ’cause he didn’t this actually was oh, the, this was the end result of 14 years of talking about his first book, take The Stairs, which is a business book for adults and post children, right? We read a lot of books and they suck. These kid books are not awesome. So if you’ve got great kids book recommendations, tag me, AJ Vaden on Instagram, I’d love to know.
AJV (01:33):
But I have not found a ton of them that are amazing. And while reading to our kids one night, he had this download of the message that he wanted to share with our kids from Take the Stairs. And so he wrote a book called Be the Buffalo, which is one of the signature stories in his first book, take The Stairs. That came out in 2010. And it’s about sometimes difficult choices, although they’re harder in the short term lead to better, you know, results in the long term. And it’s about charging the storm, right? It’s charging into conflict, not running away from it. It’s heading difficult. Things head on, not shying away because the more that you avoid it, the longer you spend time in the storm. But if you be the buffalo, you can charge the storm and get through those things quicker.
AJV (02:22):
And that story, that analogy is a really great thing that we talk about a lot. And what he was doing in the bathroom was figuring out how to, how do you take 250 pages of business words for adults and put them into about a 200 word poem for our kids? And I read this book and I was like, this, this is amazing. This is the best thing I’ve ever read. I’m pretty sure I was like ugly crying. ’cause I was like, this is so beautiful. This is exactly what I wanna share with my kids. And I said, you have to turn this into a kid’s book. Fast forward 18 months later it was still sitting on his phone. Why?
AJV (02:59):
Because we didn’t know how to do it. We knew we wanted to do it. We didn’t know how to do it. And I think this is the important thing. It’s like the reason that I felt so convicted that Rory had to get this book out into the world is as adults, we read a ton of books about how to be better leaders, better communicators, better humans, how to prioritize our time, how to have positive self-talk, self-control, discipline, obedience. How do we find our self-worth? How do we talk to each other? The importance of our words selling, marketing, recruiting, the list goes on and on and on. I read no kids’ book to talk about that, right? And I’m thinking to myself, why did I have to be in my twenties, thirties, and now forties to learn these things? Why are there books like this for kids?
AJV (03:50):
For my 5-year-old, 7-year-old, my 10-year-old niece and nephew, my 15-year-old nephew, right? My 19-year-old niece. Like, why did we have to wait to discover these lessons? To learn these lessons? And answer is because no one had written them
AJV (05:03):
What if I had a bookshelf that taught me how to have confidence as a leader with also empathy and reflection? But with confidence and, and power? What if I learned how to project, manage and not over commit? What if I learned the value of time at a very early age? And that money is not the end goal? What if I had learned all of these things as a child? What, how would my life been different? And how would have my ability to love and impact others been expedited at a much earlier age? Why did I have to wait to learn those things? And it’s because people who are writing the books aren’t writing them for kids. And so this is a call to arms. This is a challenge to the people
AJV (05:56):
Who have years and years, decades of experience of learning the trials errors and learning the lessons who are decidedly already putting those things into practice in content for adults. Do me a favor. Would you consider also putting those things into words for kids? Would you also consider about what it would’ve been like for you to have learned those things in your youth? And could you just for a moment, think about how could you do that now? How could you take the content that you’ve already created and use it to equip the next generation of leaders and humans, of employees, of moms, of dads, of just humanity to be better so they don’t have to wait like we did? So if you would be interested in learning about this, I would encourage you to check out our good friend Evie Jones. And she was the person that was referred to us that we found who was able to take our business book, take the Stairs, and turn it into a kid’s book, to take the lessons that were learned in the first, you know, 15 years of our career, but also our life.
AJV (07:12):
And put those in a book that would appeal and delight children to help them learn lessons that need to be learned to help establish mantras that you as a parent or an aunt or a friend can to rally behind to help these kids be behind pages of books, not screens, to learn lessons, not watch entertaining videos. Instead of getting into trouble.
Ep 490: How To Turn Your Business Book Into a Children’s Book with Eevi Jones
AJV (00:02):
E everybody, welcome to the influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here. And y’all, I am so excited to get to introduce you to a friend but also a vendor like we are a client
AJV (01:07):
And as a mom of two young boys, there is nothing more important than me finding good books for them to read because there’s not a lot of them. So let me also formally introduce you to Edie Jones. She is a USA today and a Wall Street Journal bestselling and award-winning writer. She’s also the founder of Children’s Book University. She does writing, she does co-writing. She does a lot of this under pin names, so you would never know that it’s her, but she’s authored more than 60 different children’s books. She’s been featured in Forbes, business Insider, Huffington Post, scary Mommy, EO Fire, Kendall Preneur. I could go on and on and on. And she lives in DC and also has two young boys. And I am so excited for this conversation. So, Evie, welcome to the show. Well,
EJ (01:55):
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, aj. I’m really so excited to be here.
AJV (02:00):
I mean, and I think this is going to be such a, a cool conversation not just for authors, but for anyone who creates content and who also has kids, nieces, nephews, no kids, like whatever it is. And I just, I love the whole idea that whatever we create for adults why don’t we also think about this? How does it have, you know, universal application and benefit to our kids? And you have done such an amazing job for us. So just for you guys know who are listening, we’ll talk about this later. But Evie was behind the scenes in helping us take Rory’s first book, take the Stairs, and turn it into now my favorite kid’s book, slightly biased, but it’s my favorite kid’s book called Be The Buffalo. And so she was able to help take this one memorable concept of an a book written for adults.
AJV (02:50):
And Rory wrote this kind of poem, right? And then she was able to take that and architect it and found illustrators and printing and publishing and all the things that we didn’t have to do. And we literally went from idea for this book to publication in just a few months. And it has been a dream of a project, and you have been so awesome to work with, so, so excited just to introduce you to our community. But those are all the things I know. So let me have you introduce yourself to our community. And I would just love to know, like, what is your background? How did you get into doing this? And just a little bit about your company so that our audience gets to know you.
EJ (03:31):
Yes. Well, so your introduction was already so amazing. You, you already hit all the main things. So yes, I’m Evie. I am a professional writer and award-winning children’s author and the founder of Children’s Book university, where I teach color aspiring authors how to write and also how to publish their very own children’s book. They always wanted to write and, and share with others. And so over the past few years, as you have already said, I have written and co-authored and ghost written over 60 children’s books for children ranging from pre-K all the way to middle grade, which of course includes, you know, picture books all the way to middle grade chapter books. Hmm. And so the way I got into all this, you know, I wrote my very first children’s book back in 2013 for my then 2-year-old.
EJ (04:19):
He’s my oldest and he just actually turned 14. And so he always, he’s always so embarrassed when I tell this story because my very first children’s book was a a party transition story. So he was already potty trained, but you know, he had a really hard time transitioning from a potty chair to a regular toilet. And yeah, because I, because I couldn’t find any books on this topic, I just decided to write my own. So my first children’s book was really born out of this particular need. And so to this day, my boys are such a huge inspiration to me and my writing. And so the books I wrote throughout the years are truly, you know, a reflection of the interests they had or the struggles they also faced over the years. And so, as for the teaching of other aspiring children’s authors and the ghosts and co-writing especially within the entrepreneurial space, that’s something I really just fell into.
EJ (05:17):
Hmm. So a couple of years ago I read Todd Herman’s Wall Street Journal bestselling book, the Alter Ego Effect. And I know that Todd has been on your podcast before as well. And yeah. So I loved his book so much that I wanted to share it with my two boys. And so I turned a book of nearly 250 pages into a children’s book with about 250 words. And so my boys loved it, and they loved it so much that I actually ended up reaching out to Todd and sharing it with him. And he loved it too. And so much so that we decided to co-author a children’s book version for his book. And he was planning on doing so anyway, so the timing was perfect. And so that’s how his children spoke.
AJV (06:01):
I wanna pause really quick. Yeah. And I wanna make sure everyone heard this, because I think this is really important for all of us when we’re trying to do something and we think somehow that we need to charge for our services before we do them. Like, you’re telling me that your whole business evolved because you saw something that you could do to serve your children, you did it for free, and then because of that you said, Hey, I just want you to know this is something I did. And that was the genesis for this entire business.
EJ (06:39):
It was Yes, absolutely. That’s interest.
AJV (06:42):
Make sure everyone, I make sure everyone heard that. Right. I just wanna, I think that’s important that everyone knows that often your business starts with doing stuff for free and you make it so good. Absolutely. It’s undeniably impossible not to do more with you.
EJ (07:00):
Yes, yes, yes. And so ex that’s how his children’s book, my Super Me was Born. And it’s a story where a little hero puts on his cape and learns to play through the fearless traits of his superhero stuffed animal Captain Storm, and where he finds the courage and resilience to show up in a more brave, more brave way and ultimately unlock his heroic self. And so, yes, through this collaboration, this project, this opened up a whole bunch of new doors and opportunities that I am really just so grateful for because Todd just kept introducing me to new people. So that’s how that got started.
AJV (07:40):
I love that. And, and really just added passion and interest of how do I share this with my kids, and how do I make something that helped me help them? I love that. Yes. I love that. So, so much. So at this point, tell us how you work with authors, right? So I’ll just we’ll use Rory as an example of, yes. Okay. So you’ve got this adult book.
EJ (08:07):
Yes.
AJV (08:07):
What does it look like to go from this book that was written for a, a business audience in this case to, and now we have something that would be great for a three year-old five-year-old, 10-year-old.
EJ (08:20):
Yes. So in your case, it was, you know, you, you guys, you and Rory reached out last year, and at this point, Rory had already written his beautiful story, which you guys called Be The Buffalo. Right. Which I, I immediately fell into in love with the story, you know, because writing in rhyme and reading stories in rhyme is just my absolute favorite just because reading these types of books to little ones is just so much fun for us grownups as well, right. Because we want to make sure that it’s fun for us also because we have to read these books over and over again to our little ones,
EJ (09:15):
And that’s because, you know, a children’s books are a lot shorter, meaning we only have a few hundred words to share what we want to say. So every single word here counts, and B, even though the concept we want to share in our story may be quite complex, we will need to share it in such a way that it is both interesting to our little readers while telling it in such a way that it is easily understood. And so, I think Be The Buffalo does just that, you know, it’s, it’s so much fun to read it and it’s it, this message is just so powerful. I wanted to actually tell you, you know, my two boys that are now nine and 14 so they’re already a little bit older, but my husband and I both constantly use the phrase, be the Buffalo Now you know, whenever our boys are faced, faced with a decision that might require them to choose between an option that seems easier at the moment and an option that seems harder at the moment, but better for them in the long run, we use that, that phrase now.
EJ (10:15):
And so I know that Rory tells the story of the Buffalo in his book, take the Stairs, and that the story has been shared many, many times over the years, often unfortunately, without attributing it to Rory. Right? So I really just love that it is now that he’s now sharing this valuable lesson with little ones in the form of a children’s book as well. Mm-Hmm. And so, yeah, so the way this usually happens is people often come to me not always, but often they come to me as a, as a fellow entrepreneur, and they already have a book written on the subject of expertise, usually, right? Just like Todd Herman had the book, the Alter Ego Effect that shares how to unlock Most Heroic Your Most Heroic Self. Or Brian Johnson, for example, with this book, Ari Taylor shows us grownups to become the best version of ourselves.
EJ (11:11):
So they either have a book or they have been teaching or coaching a particular topic, you know, using a specific proprietary process that they would now like to also share with children in the form of a story. And so, what many are essentially looking for and asking for is to take the essence of their books or the essence of their teachings, and then convert it into something that we can share with little readers in, in such a way that it is easily understood. And I really love this so much because what we are essentially doing is we are taking all these amazing teaching points that took us grownups, decades to learn, right? And, and internalize, and we make them understandable and ac accessible to little ones so they can learn about them in a fun and creative way, which then in turn helps them create these habits and healthy mindsets early on in life. And yeah, you know, knowing what I know now, I would give anything, if I could have learned about the power of the alter ego early on in life, you know or the power my words can have on others, or knowing that sometimes taking the seemingly harder path often turns out to be the better one, right? So instead of waiting until our twenties or thirties or forties, we can share these incredible nuggets of wisdom early on with our little ones in the form of a children’s book. Yeah. I could
AJV (12:38):
Not not agree more. I could not agree more. Like one of the, honestly, like, just for everyone listening, like one of the reasons I wanted to have Evie on the show is because there is such a void of good kids books. Yes. Like, I literally find myself spending hours sorting through reviews, reading the first few pages, and then putting it back, putting it back. I’m like, Nope, nope, this makes no sense. This has no story, this has no plot. And there’s definitely no lesson that I want my kids to learn. And I love what you just said, and I think this is so important for anyone out there who is a content creator, whether you have a book, wanna have a book, or you never thought about it, but you have a lot of content of why wouldn’t we want to empower our kids the next generation with all of the life lessons we’ve already learned? Why should they wait till they’re 20, 30, 40? I love that you said that, ed, of going, no, look, we have an ability to teach them those things now. Like right now, all the things that we wish we would’ve known and we can do it through actually helpful kids books versus some of the nonsense.
EJ (13:41):
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So
AJV (13:44):
What, so what does it look like? So, okay, so we’ll just use like any book, right? So let’s just say I’m an author and I, I have a, you know, business book about, you know, whatever, it doesn’t matter what it is. And I’m like, yeah, I’d love to figure out how to turn this into a kid’s book. Like what do you do? Like, you have, you do have a gift, you’ve got some magic behind the scenes and, and doing this. And a lot of it’s ’cause you’ve done it for a long time and you’ve done it many times. Yes. Right? But what does that process look like for the person going, yeah, I would love for my book to be a kid’s book.
EJ (14:20):
Yes. So usually what I do when, when people come to me is I actually read this book myself, and I’m very active within the entrepreneurial space. So I, the chances are actually pretty high that I have already read the book. But either way I will read the book and really also have a one-on-one conversation. You know, what is it that you want to get out of this book and what do you want little kids to get out of the children’s book? And so then this will always help me really condense this message down because that’s what we need to do, right? Like I said, we have to turn 250 pages into 250 words. And so yeah. So once we are clear on the main teaching points or the main purpose of the children’s book, we want to figure out what age group we want our book to be for.
EJ (15:06):
That’s really, really important because something most aspiring children’s authors don’t know or don’t realize is that they need to be really clear on their audience, very much like businesses in general, but we need to know who we are writing our book for as well. Right? Many often tell me that they want their children’s book to be written for any child, so that no matter the age, whether they’re two or they’re 12 years old, you know, everyone will enjoy it. But looking at our own kids, right? We know that that’s just not possible. A 2-year-old won’t really enjoy what a 12-year-old is reading and vice versa. And that’s simply because we develop cognitively the most during our childhood. And that’s why, you know, there is such a vast difference in the use of vocabulary and also the word count within children’s books and the number of pages and the number of illustrations and things like that. This is not random, you know, it’s all based on our target audience, the age group. And so that’s why we want to be very clear on what age range we want to be writing for so we can then choose the right length of words or the right length of the story and the right type of story. So
AJV (16:15):
I have a question for you about that. So yes, this is basically figuring out what is your core target audience for your children’s book. And so what would you say are like the age ranges? Does it go from like two to four, five to seven, eight to 10? Or like, because you’re right, like even the books, like my kids grow out of books probably every year, if not every two years. So that is a really interesting insight of like, you’ve gotta be really micro specific of who your book is going after.
EJ (16:47):
Exactly. So that you, the age ranges you gave is exactly that. And so based on each, it’s, you know, you make the story a little bit longer or you can also use a little bit more challenging vocabulary. And so also, do we want to have illustrations on each page, or would it, for older kids, they only have, you know, illustrations, maybe a couple of pages, every couple of pages. How much text do we want to have on each page? Things like that. So yeah, it’s really important. That’s
AJV (17:15):
Really insightful. ’cause You know, what you said in the beginning is probably what I hear most people say is like, I want it for all kids. And it’s like, yes, you are right. A 2-year-old and a 12-year-old are very different and want very different books. Just you know, just thinking about that. I’m sure me and Rory even said that like, we wanted to apply to all kids, and that’s not how it is. Right. That’s really, really insightful of how narrow it must be for children. Mm-Hmm.
EJ (17:43):
Exactly. Yeah. And so that’s usually, that usually takes part of the story writing part because, you know, I will then usually take it and write something have, first we have a conversation of where I would like to take it based on the book, and then I write something and then, you know, it’s, it’s very much a co collaborative work, right? Where we go back and forth tweaking it and just seeing to seeing where we would like to take it, or, you know, sometimes it’s either spot on or sometimes we need to still tweak it a little bit. And so that’s what we work on there. And so then after that, it’s re really about the visual part. This is what’s so beautiful about children’s books, because it’s not just the story, it’s also the visual, right? The through illustrations, which is always so much fun.
EJ (18:29):
And so most children’s books are passion projects, meaning we usually just start writing and then start envisioning the different illustrations. You know, and the really, that’s really the exciting part for me as well. And so because we are mainly driven by our passion, we don’t really think about the more technical things like, you know, the illustration sizes or the book size that are available to us, or, you know along with the orientation, you know, should we have a landscape or the other way, you know, and things like that. And so I remember wasting so much time with my very first children’s book because I didn’t think about any of these things, you know? And so all illustrations ended up being the wrong size, and I essentially had to start all over again, and I lost so much time. And so before reaching out to an illustrator, we always want to already have these things in mind, you know, know the size we want for our book, or at least have an idea.
EJ (19:26):
Or like, you guys, you, you came and you said, you know, we really like these llama lama books, you know, and so that was really helpful. So that helps. And so we also want to already have an idea of what kind of illustration type we like, you know, where we what we want our children’s book to look like. Because if we start looking for an illustrator without already having some sort of vision, we can get overwhelmed really easily and really quickly, because there are just so many different styles out there. So we first want to get clear on what style we like and then go from there. And that’s really, you already had a vision, so I could you, you know, that you shared with me that was so, that made it so much easier for me. So that was amazing.
AJV (20:08):
But I’ll tell you, as content creators, that was the most challenging part for us. Like, before we found you, which we’re so glad we got referred to you, you know, I don’t know if Rory told you how the Be the Buffalo came to be, but we were literally putting our kids to bed one night, and I was tucking him in, and we always usually do it together. And Rory looks at me and he goes, I have to go. And he just left the room, and I’m like, are you sick? Are you like, what is going on? And he just disappeared. And so I finished putting our two boys down at that point, Liam was probably two, and Jasper was four, and Roy disappeared. So like 30 minutes later I went looking for like, what, what is wrong with you? Where are you? And I couldn’t find him.
AJV (20:51):
And he was downstairs in his office. And so finally he emerges and he goes, babe, I just had a download from God. I just wrote a kid’s book. And I’m like, I’m sorry, what? What you, what whatcha talking about? And he goes, I don’t know what happened, but we were just putting the kids down. And I literally just got this message and I just wrote a kid’s book. And he goes, will you read this? And I was like, if you wrote a kid’s book in the last 30 minutes, what are you talking about? So I pull up his phone and I read it, and I literally, I start crying. I’m like, this is exactly what we wanna teach our kids. This is, this is exactly the heart of the parenting that we want to have with our kids. And I immediately said, this has to be a book.
AJV (21:34):
This cannot stay with us. Fast forward 18 months. Right? So, like, he had written that, and immediately we were like, we need an we, we know we need an illustrator, right? And we, it took forever to find anyone who would even talk to us about it. And then we hired someone paid several thousand dollars, and it was like we would get an image or two every few weeks and not in a book format. And finally we were like, listen, you can keep the deposit, but we had a bail on this. And then Rory was like, babe, we just don’t have time for this. Long story short, we finally got introduced to you. And from the time that we got introduced to you to like a book in hand, it was just a couple of months. And so much of the power of working with someone who knows what they’re doing has a lot to do with like, we didn’t have to think of all the things you said, these are the illustrators I use based on what you told me.
AJV (22:26):
This is what I need from you. Get, fill this, fill this out, fill this out. And I, I share that because I think it’s so important of going, we could have had this book out a long time before because the, the book itself, the poem, right, it came in 30 minutes, but it took us 18 months to finally find someone who knew what the heck they were doing to allow us to create something. And that was you. And it was so much of the guidance and the coaching, and this is what I need from you next. This is what I need from you next. And the, the illustrations was a huge part of it. ’cause We don’t know, we had never written a kid’s book before, right? We just knew that we wanted this for our kids and our friends’ kids and any kid. And I think that’s, that is what is the problem with so much of our businesses. Doesn’t matter if you’re writing for adults or for kids, it’s like what you’re good at is the content, right? But putting it all together, getting it printed, getting it in a course, putting it in a keynote, that’s, that’s what stops a lot of us from getting the message that we feel called to share from actually ever getting out. There are the technical and tactical things. And in this particular case, you take care of all of that. If you wanna put ’em in a kid’s book.
EJ (23:47):
Yes, exactly. Well, I’m just so grateful that you kept nudging Rory to really do turn it into a children’s book.
AJV (23:55):
More like harassing, but
AJV (25:08):
Absolutely. To do it for children. Mm-Hmm.
EJ (26:09):
AJV (27:02):
Yeah. So you wanna be an establ you wanna be established in your
EJ (27:06):
Personal brand. Yes, exactly. Brand.
AJV (27:07):
Mm-Hmm.
EJ (27:24):
Yes. I mean, but if you have, you know a proprietary system that you’re using that you, that you have in your course, then you can, then you do not necessarily need a book. Okay. Yes. But it always helps me if you have material like a book that always helps me just to draft your story. But I can also, I often also go through my client’s courses. So, you know, if they don’t have a book, I go through their courses and then I just get inspired there. So that also works.
AJV (27:53):
But it’s most important that you’re just clear and established and who you are. Mm-Hmm.
EJ (28:05):
Exactly.
AJV (28:06):
Okay. So that’s all
EJ (28:07):
I need.
AJV (28:07):
So and then, so then kind of my second question is that is how do you determine if the content is suitable to turn into a kid’s book? Or have you ever told someone, I love your content. I don’t think it’s good for kids.
EJ (28:24):
Yes. I mean, you know, a lot of people think that a, a children’s book about business just has to be really about business. Like, you know, marketing or selling or having a lemonade stand, because I see those books all the time, right? Mm-Hmm.
EJ (29:16):
Just like their language becomes second nature, this knowledge is simply a given. And simply they grow up with this, right? And so if you are asking yourself, is this worth a children’s book? Then I would say, you know, in today’s fast and ever changing world, we all need to be asking ourselves, how am I impacting and supporting others with my life and my energy? How do I leave a lasting positive impact on my little ones that leaves them for the better long after I’m gone? Right? And so my providing of these services is my attempt to help others do just that. So yes, I hopefully that answers your question.
AJV (29:55):
Yeah, I think that’s really good. And I, and I think it’s, it’s what I hear you saying is that there’s an opportunity no matter what your message is Yes. To find an application for it to be meaningful for kids.
EJ (30:07):
Mm-Hmm.
AJV (30:09):
Yeah. I love that. So then my next question is kind of like, how could this help you built Mm-Hmm,
EJ (30:33):
Yes. So for many of my clients that so for example, Todd Herman, he uses his and Phil Jones. I know that Rory knows Phil Jones, and you maybe also they just take their children’s books anywhere they go because this is just another angle to share your own message. You know, and this is why I was saying earlier, it’s really helpful that if your children’s book you know, shares the same message as your own, as your own brand, right? If it ties together what you are teaching and what your children’s book is teaching, if that ties together, that’s really great. And that you can then later on share your message from different angles, because a lot of our clients have children. So then you can share your children’s book that way and tackle things that way. Or for example, my, my client Brian Johnson with his book Ari Te, for him it is really important to reach as many people as possible.
EJ (31:32):
And so, again, that’s why he, he create, he has this book Ari Tale for regular people then, but then he also has programs that reaches athletes, for example. So, you know, he wants to reach athletes, so he creates material that specifically targets them. And so that’s why we wrote his children’s book series heroic for his heroic brand to reach children. And so that’s, I think how this ties it all together, just being able to share it with a different generation, the same teachings that are important to you to be able to reach other generations with that message.
AJV (32:11):
Yeah. Well, I love it. Well, I’ll tell you, for everyone who’s listening, and for you too, Evie, as a consumer, as a parent, I often buy way more kids books than I do adult books, right? It’s like, absolutely. I, I pretty much am like for every Christmas present for my niece and nephews, it always includes a book for most birthday presents. ’cause I wanna give something that’s not just a toy that’s going to disappear in three weeks. I almost always include a book. Like, that’s just who I am. Maybe not everyone is like that, but I buy way more kids’ books. And when I find a kid’s book I love, I’ll buy like 20 or 30 of ’em. ’cause Then I’m like, I know your kid needs it. I know your kid needs it. I know you want your kid to have it. There’s very few adult books that I’ll do. I’ll recommend ’em, I’ll share them. But like the kids’ books, because kids can’t buy them. I do that. And so for whatever it’s worth to everyone listening out there, people will buy more books for their kids than often they will even for themselves.
EJ (33:17):
Absolutely. I, I absolutely agree. Especially what you were saying with as a gift. Right? I, I very rarely give books. Maybe my husband, I give him books all the time, but friends, not so much. The only time when I do give books to friends and family is when it’s a children’s book.
AJV (33:34):
Yeah. So, so for anyone who’s listening, just going, it’s kind of a big deal. And then I think another thing that we’ve really seen is just doing special times throughout the year of like where we package. You know, you, you buy this book and you’re gonna get the kids’ book with it. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (34:22):
I I sometimes I’ll just flip through be the buffalo as reminders of things that I won’t necessarily pull out, take the stairs and flip through it, because it doesn’t have pictures. There’s not that emotional visual reminder and there’s a lot of pages and a lot of words, but sometimes I’ll just flip through it for those like quick subtle reminders that Yes. And I think part of it is ’cause I lo it, I love it in a poem version. I know you mentioned you do too, but the simplicity and the, the shortness of how quick you can get through that is a really powerful reminder when the, I can only think of like maybe two books ever that I reread. Like, there’s just not a lot. But with kids’ books, to your point, you’re gonna read them until you’re exhausted of ’em. You’re like, oh my gosh, can we never read this book again? But those reminders really mean a lot when they actually have a plot, a story, and a lesson, and it’s just as impactful for me, the adult, the reader, and in this case, the parent to read it to my kids as it is beneficial for them.
EJ (35:23):
Exactly. Yeah. I love that you say this because that’s what I get a lot about my own books also, that when people read it, and it’s supposed to be for children, but they say, oh my goodness, that was so amazing to just read for myself. So, and you know, if you have a book like this that is really, that’s something special, you know, if if both can get something out of this yeah. I love that.
AJV (35:47):
I love that. So okay, two quick questions left, and I’ll be sensitive to time, but how long does this process take? So if somebody’s like, oh yeah, I’ve been, I’ve been wanting to do this, like what is like a timeline of expectations to get something out into the world?
EJ (36:02):
Yes. So your timeline was super short. Right. And because, and the reason why this is not always the case. The reason why was whenever I send something your way for a thumbs up or you know, your feedback, you were on it. So it really depends on, you know, my client’s feedback, how quickly can they return my calls or my emails and things like that. And so yeah, based on that I don’t remember, but it wasn’t, was it three to six months? Right? Yeah. So it was really quick. It
AJV (36:34):
Was not long. It was not long.
EJ (36:36):
Yes. And so yeah, around that timeframe, I would say. But again, it really depends on how quickly, you know, the client can respond. But I always try to write my story very quickly, thoroughly, but quickly because I know that people are so excited, you know, to get this going and to share it with the world. And so, yeah, so I work as quickly as possible, and then we just always take it from there.
AJV (37:01):
Well, I’ll just tell yer, if you haven’t yet written a book, the idea if you could get a kids book out in three to six months is about 10 x shorter
EJ (37:44):
Yeah. Well, so I would, I would say as a children’s author is that if you have ever thought about writing a children’s book, whether it is for your brand or as a passion project, I would encourage you to really look into it and just go for it. You know, it’s 90% of the people that hear that I write children’s books, they tell me that they always wanted to write their own. Hmm. But so few actually end up doing so for, for various reasons. But really, it’s never too late to write a children’s book. Something people often are held back by is the thought that they don’t have any experience either in writing children’s books or, you know, in writing in general. Or oftentimes people share with me that they don’t have kids or, you know, that they, that because of that they don’t feel like they are fit to write a children’s book.
EJ (38:32):
But, you know, there are really, there’s no reason to think that having kids or not having kids disqualifies us to write a children’s book. You know, I have worked with many clients that also don’t have children, or where the children are already fully grown and have already moved out. So it isn’t necessarily about having kids or being around kids, it’s about having been a kid, you know, and remembering similar experiences or having overcome similar struggles that kids go through today. That’s what we’ll connect with little ones, not whether or not the author is around children on a daily basis, you know? And yeah, it’s just so funny too, because so many don’t know that some of our most beloved authors we remember from our own childhood also don’t have children, or didn’t have children. For example, Dr. Seuss, he didn’t have any children, you know, and Louis Carroll, the, the author of Alice in Wonderland didn’t either or, or she Silverstein or Marie Sendek, you know, who wrote where the Wild Things are. Or Margaret Wise Brown, the author of Goodnight Moon, all Without Children. And yet they all have, these are some of our most beloved children’s book authors. So I think that’s something to just keep in mind also.
AJV (39:46):
Yeah, those are iconic books for the most part. Mm-Hmm,
EJ (40:00):
Absolutely.
AJV (40:01):
And how can you impart that gift to this next generation? That’s so good, so wise, I love that so much. Everyone who’s listening if you are curious about this, if you’re going, I would love to learn more about what it, what it’s like to write a kid’s book or turn my book into a kid’s book. Evie has put together a special link just for our community, for our podcast listeners. So if you wanna check this out, if you wanna learn more, go to Evie Jones. It’s EEVI jones.com/brand builders. So evie jones.com/brand builders. I’ll put that in the show notes. And she’s gonna do a 15 minute call for free with anyone who’s interested. Most of her services are not for free, so this is a very generous offering of just to go like, what’s it about? Could I do it? How would I do it? And what, what’s the process like? So if you wanna learn more, check her out. Evie, if people just wanna connect with you on like, your preferred social platform, where should they go?
EJ (41:06):
They can just go over to Instagram. That’s Evie Jones. That’s where you find me, that’s where I am. And you can also message me there as well.
AJV (41:15):
Awesome. And then one last bonus question for me, but if it’s for me, bet other people would like to know it as well, what is your favorite kid’s book to recommend to other parents?
EJ (41:28):
Well, I have so many because, you know, I, I write and read so often. I read so many, so I would say I absolutely love The Little Blue Truck Series by Ali Shirley and the Lama Lama series, which I know you love so much by Anna Ney because they express so much with so little, you know, so just so few words. And so for older kids, I adore Andrea Beatty’s, the questionnaire series, if you are looking for something for your boys like, you know, she has books like Rosie Revere Engineer, or Iggy Peck Architect. So I’m really drawn as, you know, to rhyming stories because they, they’re my favorite way of writing. And so for older kids, Mary Pope Osborne, you know, her Magic Treehouse series, I absolutely love this one. And then of course, I have to mention my favorite illustrators who are Peter H. Reynolds and Lauren Long. I love them so much. So yes. And then of course, your book. I love it so much. I hope lots of people get it. It’s absolutely adorable. And like I said, the first time I read it, I, I just knew it was something really special. And we use this phrase all the time now. So, you know, when we see a set of stairs or you know, an escalator,
AJV (42:50):
I love it. And I promise I did not ask her to say that I did not
EJ (43:41):
Bye.
Ep 487: Fastest Ways to Grow Your New Business | Sara and Ben Jensen Episode Recap
AJV (00:02):
AJV (00:56):
How did they start this? Where did the idea come from? It’s a very fast growing company. They only founded it three years ago. Although the idea started 14 years ago. And I thought this was a, a, a great inspiration to have a conversation today about how do you do that? Like, how do you take something that you’ve been through in your life that was challenging or scary or traumatic or just painful and go, but there is purpose in this, and I want to help other people who have experienced this, that same thing. I want to help them find a better way, experience a better way of getting through it living, coming out on the other side better. In other words, I feel like I have a message put on my heart that must get out into the world, and I would love to turn that into a business that helps me create an abundant life for me, my family generations beyond me as well as making a huge impact by doing something that I know matters.
AJV (01:59):
And so I, I thought this was like a really great inspiration conversation. So here are a few things that may help you as you figure out the transition between doing what you’re currently doing and doing the thing that you feel called to do, right? And how do you turn your passion into your full-time business? So number one, I thought this was very insightful is success is about making as many mistakes as humanly possible as quickly and as inexpensively as possible so that you can learn, pivot, and grow, right? I, I, I think that’s so powerful for us all to remember that success is not a foundation of our victories.
AJV (02:59):
That was a learning experience, that was a growth opportunity. It was learning what not to do again that, that is where growth happens. That’s where success happens. Success is a byproduct of being willing to make a ton of mistakes, but make ’em quickly, make them as inexpensive as possible, and then learn, pivot, and go. And I think that’s just so important for all of us of knowing whatever it is that you think it’s going to be, it likely won’t be what you end up with.
AJV (04:03):
And so our offerings grew really quickly, and then they all got cut back just as quickly. And that was a, that was a part of going, it’s like, man, we don’t have capacity to do all of this in the way that we want it. And there are certain areas that had natural momentum that we made a decision of going, although there’s this thing that could get us there, that could be the thing, it’s not right. And it felt very forceful. It felt like we were just pulling it along behind us versus these other things that we’re just taking off without a ton of effort. And our, and the point of that being is like your audience will tell you what it is they need from you, if you’ll just listen. And the way that they tell you is what they buy, what they buy again, what they renew with, what they tell their friends about.
AJV (04:48):
It’s in their feedback. And they’ll also tell you what’s not working by the fact that they don’t buy it again or they don’t renew or they don’t tell their friends about it. And I think a lot of that just has to do with us as business owners, as entrepreneurs, as team members, to slow down enough and pay attention and listen. And that’s really hard to do when you’re doing a hundred different things and you’re pulled in a million different directions. It’s hard to do when you’re distracted and when you’re busy. Yep. B word, busy. ’cause We can get busy and when we’re busy and in a hurry and multitasking, it is hard to see the things right in front of you. You often push them aside and you don’t pay attention because there’s too many other things to get to. And I would encourage you that as you’re figuring this out, if you slow down and you ask and you listen, it’ll become so obviously clear.
AJV (05:44):
People will tell you exactly what it is that they are willing to buy from you, and that they need to buy from you. And that also it gives you confidence and conviction that you’re the right person to offer it to them. Them. If you just slow down and listen intuitively, ask, pay attention and just get into the data, right? That’s a really important part of this right? Now. That leads to the second thing, what you do, right? Your passion, right? And your business, what you do has got to be both logical and emotional, right? It should emotionally move you to go like, I can’t not do this. Like, if I didn’t do this, it would be the biggest regret of my life. Like, I have to do this. That’s the emotional side of like, I feel convicted in this. I can’t not talk about it.
AJV (06:34):
Like it just bubbles out of me regardless. Like this is who I am and it’s what I was put on this earth to do. There’s passion, right? That’s the emotional side. But then there’s also the logical side. And sometimes we let our emotions overtake the logic. And this is a discipline, it’s an obedience of pulling that back in, of going, these are the things I feel called to do, but that’s honestly sometimes a little me centered. And we have to pair that. We have to balance that with, and what are people asking for from me, right? What are people willing to buy from me? What are people willing to learn from me? What are they asking to learn from me? Rather, you know, intrinsically or verbal or verbally that it’s like, where am I most positioned to help and serve people? Passion? And what are people most willing to buy from me?
AJV (07:31):
And how much are they willing to spend with me? Logically, that’s market evaluation, that’s core target audience that’s pairing with what you have to offer versus what the market is saying that they want. And that is both an emotional and logical conversation, and they both have to happen. One is not higher or lower than the other. They are both equally important to figure out a business model that serves both your passion and your calling and create something that is viable and sustainable that can actually make you money. So it is both about your passion and what you want to do and what the market is willing to buy from you and at what price. So it is both things. And so I think a part of that is sometimes you don’t know until you know. And that’s where you gotta be flexible and nimble and be willing to just get out there and make some quick mistakes cheaply, right?
AJV (08:22):
Quickly. and then pivot. I go, wasn’t that wasn’t that. Let’s try it again. Let’s tweak it again. That was too much. That was too low. Whatever it is. And the best way to know those things is not to ideate and it’s not to brainstorm, it’s to do it.
AJV (09:09):
You just can’t. Nobody knows what they’re doing before they do it. So the best thing you can do is to do it and to adjust accordingly as you go. Okay? That is how you turn your passion into your business at, at a very high level, right? Now three other quick things I wanna share with us is that now how do you get people to buy it? Well, one, you sell it, right? Selling is fast. Marketing is slow. Marketing is the long game. So selling is the short game. So if we think it’s like, okay, now I’ve got this idea. I need to build the website, I need to launch a podcast. I need to do social media, I need da, da, da, da, da. That is the long, expensive route. And many of you don’t have the runway to do it. Some of you do awesome, but most of us don’t.
AJV (09:56):
And what you have to do is you have to get out there and talk to people. You have to tell them your story. Why? ’cause your story is what helps you connect to your audience, not your product. Your story, IE your personal brand. So knowing why you do this, how you do it, what makes it different, what problem you’re solving what message are you delivering, right? And products and services doesn’t matter what makes it unique. And a lot of times it’s you,
AJV (10:46):
You being live in person in a room, talking to people, explaining it to people, showing it to people, helping people experience it, skin to skin, shoulder to shoulder, like that goes faster. So be willing to get out there and talk about it. Do not let it be the world’s best kept secret secret because you don’t know what to say or how to say it. It’s like that’s, that’s your job. Like you have to know how to explain it because you’ve been through it, you know? And then you’ve got to find anyone anywhere who’s willing to listen for free or not. Like if you get paid, great, but don’t expect to be paid, right? But willing to get out there and speak to any group who’s willing to gather together churches, associations, memberships, masterminds, whatever. Right? there are all types of people who are looking for speakers for free all over the place.
AJV (11:39):
Business journals, chambers of Commerce, rotary Clubs, right? Yeah, that’s old school stuff. But you know what? They need speakers. They have monthly meetings and you know who come to those meetings? People. And that’s what you need. So be willing to talk to anyone about the thing because it matters. It matters to you. ’cause You know it’s gonna matter to the people, right? So just wanna encourage that. Sales is fast, marketing is slow. And the best way for you to sell is to be in front of people, to explain it, to walk people through it, and to share your story, right? And then community is what helps things spread. It is finding a group of people who can rally behind your products and your services and shop them to the rooftops, right? Because why? Because they work, right?
AJV (12:31):
It’s undeniable. If you get someone results, it is hard not for that person and for others to talk about it. Make sure you are focused on being better before you focus on being bigger. Make sure that you know how to get people results and you have documented proof of it. You have testimonials of it, you’ve got case studies of it, right? And those don’t have to be formally and designed like I’m talking about on a Word doc, right? A quick iPhone video, but have it have proof. Third party validation that you are who you say you are, and you do what you say you’re gonna do. And that could be in a email from a client, a testimonial. And clients don’t have to be paid clients. FYI don’t be afraid to offer your products and services for free to test it. That’s required. In most cases, any big product that’s having a launch has been tested many, many, many, many times for free before anyone paid for it.
AJV (13:25):
I think about this often. I fly a lot and thank gosh that anytime I am on a new airplane, that is not the first time that pilot has been in the plane. That is not the first time that plane has been the air. Thank the lord. This thing has been up for thousands of miles and this pilot has tens of thousands of miles under their belt. The first time they do it is not with paying customers in the seats. That would be crazy. But yet somehow we think that the very first time we launch our business, launch our products, people should pay for ’em. Why? Why do we think that? I don’t know. Someone said it one time. I don’t know. That’s not true. Be willing to do what you do for free to get market feedback, to get testimonials, to fine tune to tweak before you go live.
AJV (14:09):
Then when you do go live, you do launch. You got all the validation and the conviction and the confidence and the market validation and testimonials that this does what it says it does. This gets results. This helps people. And it, I’m not just saying that all these other people are saying that community is what helps your business spread. So build it, share it, and don’t forget about it. And then last, but not le lightly, I think this is also important, is that many of us see the attraction of entrepreneurship starting our own business because we think it’s gonna allow us to build a lifestyle that caters to our, our family, our personal needs, our our marriages, our kids.
AJV (14:51):
And then you actually get in it and you realize you have less time than you did before, and you are more stressed and more overwhelmed. And that’s because we let the business become the main thing. And so I would just encourage you as you’re thinking about like this passion thing that you have, that you feel called to do and how you could turn it into a business, don’t forget the important part of also talking about like, what is the life that you wanna have while doing this? How much time do you want for your marriage time that you want? Spiritually in my case, it’s like I gotta ti I have to prioritize my time with the Lord first. And then time with my husband, then time with my kids and my family, and then comes, you know, times with friends and community.
AJV (15:38):
But if I make the business first, it sucks up all the time.
AJV (16:18):
And if I do that, the business works. If I don’t, nothing works. I struggle. My marriage struggles my faith struggles my family struggles. But when I put all those other things, first, business just works. And so make sure that as you’re crafting this, you make sure that you’re crafting your life in addition to your business. Because both matter
Ep 486: Turning Your Passion Into Your Business with Sara and Ben Jensen
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody, welcome to the influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here, and y’all, I’m so excited to introduce you to two. Yep, you heard me Two new friends. It’s very rare that I get to do another podcast episode with a husband and wife couple, and it’s super sweet and special to me since I’m in business with my husband, Rory, as most of you listening, know that. So to get to introduce you guys to Sarah and Ben today, is this going to be a sweet, sweet story? But before I do a formal introduction to Ben and Sarah, I want you to know why you need to stick around for this episode. So before you decide if this is for you or for not, here’s what I would tell you is number one, if you have been delving into the idea of going full-time into that thing that is tugging at your heart, this is the episode for you.
AJV (00:50):
If you’ve been trying to figure out how do you turn your passion into your business or how do you figure out how to weave your message and this calling that you have on your life into the thing that makes you money, then this is an episode that you want to listen to. ’cause You’re today gonna get to hear from two people who have done and who are doing that right now, taking their life experiences, things that they feel called to do and said, you know what? We’re gonna go all in and we’re not just gonna take this information for ourselves. We’re gonna turn it into a business and we’re gonna make it useful and helpful for other people. So that is why you wanna stick around. Today is one of those unique episodes that doesn’t matter who you are or where you’re at in your journey, you want to stick around and listen.
AJV (01:31):
So without further ado, now, let me give you a quick introduction Ben and Sarah Jensen, and then we will get into having this awesome episode. So Sarah and Ben have founded Human Grace, which is a lifestyle wellness brand that promotes hormone health with life-changing skincare, health and home products. Y’all, I’m already interested in this and I don’t even know what you do. So
BJ (02:04):
Thank you. So excited to be here.
SJ (02:05):
I know this is, this is great. Love your audience.
AJV (02:08):
Well, and I love too that we got introduced by mutual friends ’cause that already carries so much weight and you know, we talk a lot about the power of reputation and personal brand and trust. And when other people are reaching out to me on your behalf, already says a lot about the good work that you do. So help our audience get to know you a little bit. What I’d love to do is just start, is just to hear a little bit about your story. Why don’t you kick us off, Sarah
SJ (02:36):
So, so Ben and I, we’ve, we found our company almost three years ago, but we, it was really, the genesis was a very long personal struggle. So we got married young, we married for almost 22 years. And we, but we spent 14 of those years struggling with unexplained infertility. Got married young. I was 23 and Ben was 26, you know, started trying to get pregnant. I was around 25 and we were very healthy. I think outside looking in, you know, I was an ultra marathoner. Ben was doing CrossFit, you know, didn’t drink smoke, you know, had, you know, all the green drinks and all the, all the protein all did everything quote unquote right. But, but we could not get pregnant and being diagnosed with unexplained, it was like, find something and just wrong and fix it. So we just did a ton of research.
SJ (03:20):
It was after I think my sixth round of IVF where our doctor said like, what chemicals do you spraying around your house? What skincare are you using? What wellness stuff? And that’s what really kind of triggered us going deeper into research. And even, even the thought, like from I, my rounds of IVFI read a hormone cream on my leg, get my blood levels tested the next day and my hormones had spiked. And just not dunno why we didn’t earlier put two and two together that what you put on your body actually can impact your hormones. The amazing part of our story is Ben’s sister volunteered to be our surrogate and gave birth to our little hue. And then when he was almost one, my sister called and said, I wanna try to give Hugh a sibling. And so she volunteered to be our second surrogate. So gave birth for our little grace. The name Hugh means heart, mind, and spirit and grace means goodness, goodness, generosity and love and which the things that brought us our kids. But it was after having our kids and realizing that, so when we were learning about these hormone disrupting chemicals and hormone health topic of hormone health and hormone disruption, we were just thinking of infertility. ’cause That was just our sole focus,
BJ (04:23):
That that was our pain. Yeah.
SJ (04:24):
Yeah. But then looking at the data and looking at the research, these chemicals, they are linked to infertility, but they’re also linked to autoimmunity, diseases and anxiety, depression, cancers, obesity, strokes,
BJ (04:35):
The, and the list goes on. Yeah.
SJ (04:36):
And then the, the then thinking the flip side, what is hormone health? And that’s better sleep, less stress, their skin better like no joint pain. So just thinking like, these are things benefits that everyone needs and wants. And so that’s when we decided that we should create human grace.
BJ (04:54):
So yeah, I, I’ll tell you and, and give it right back to you. But Sarah came to me, we have our two children and I’m finally at peace and I’m holding our, you know, our daughter at this point. She says, Ben, you know, we have to do something about this. I said, what are you talking about? We have our kids. We, we don’t have to do anything. I would hold my kids. You know, we had very comfortable careers. You know, we, we knew the path that we were on and it was, it was, I dunno, easy is the right word, but it was clear like we, we kind of knew what we were doing. And she just felt this passion kept coming back to me. And after she kind of explained to me the, the vision that she had had and, and, and that we could help other people while helping build something meaningful while earning an income on it, it became interesting as, as we dived into the research she talked about, we started looking at the market opportunity instead of focusing specifically on infertility, which is our, you know, you always hear the best businesses are solving pain or solving a problem.
BJ (05:48):
That’s what led us to do this. It wasn’t wasn’t ’cause I necessarily wanted to start a business ’cause we kind of had to, felt, felt compelled. I
SJ (05:57):
Just felt this huge responsibility because what Ben and I went through nearly broke us, us individuals, us our marriage many, many times. And like, we’re, we’re, we’re strong. Like we, you know, Ben was, Ben’s being modest about his career. He started, he’s very successful. He was operating a multi-billion dollar family office out of Beverly Hills. I had my MBA from USC and I was working with our top alumni, my parents in philanthropy. So raising transformative gifts from the university. And I said, Ben, what we went through nearly broke us. And we’re strong individuals. And I said, and this really impacts everyone and no one really knows about it. And I said, between, like, between our professional networks, we can get to anyone. You know, I’m a professional fundraiser. I can ask for help if I feel like it’s meaningful. And we said, what can, what can we do where we can actually also spend time with our kids? ’cause We were working long hours traveling a ton, and we said, we wanna be with our kids now. So what, what can we do to help? That’s, that’s really meaningful.
AJV (06:50):
Yeah. So this is what I was gonna ask earlier because lots of people discover things, make life changes and then move on. So I need to know like, what was this vision? What was this passion like? What was so convicting about what you went through and what you learned that said, no, we have to do this. We can’t not do it.
BJ (07:15):
Yeah. It’s, it, it, it’s interesting. I think there, there were a few things when we had our family, we, we started looking, put it this way, until we had our children, we were thinking about having children, right? That was the only thing we could do is, is think of that, that thing in the future, right? We weren’t thinking about our lives. We were living our lives. We didn’t sit on our hands. We got graduate degrees, we traveled the world. ’cause We, you know, but we, we always wanted to have a family, even though the two of us rarely talked about that. Like, it was too painful. But when we got to the other side of it, now we have our kids. Now what kinda life do we wanna live, right? How do we want to spend time with our family? And as she was saying, we were working a lot and we were working for other people, which was great.
BJ (07:57):
But, you know, cynically, my, my the definition of my job was to make very wealthy people wealthier. And Sarah’s job was to make a wealthy university wealthier. And we thought we’ve got talent and ability. We, we, you know, I’ve, I’ve operated businesses, had a hundred employees and, but I’ve never done it for, for us. And if we had pain that deep, there’s gotta be other people that are going through it. And maybe we can prevent something. Maybe we can help something. Maybe we can provide community, provide support. And so our whole business is, is built around that concept. It’s actually, when we started talking about how we would go to market is when I got interested in it. ’cause If we could help people, products are one thing, right? Yes. We have great products that work really well, but then there’s education, then there’s community building and then support.
BJ (08:45):
We could put all those things together. We’re creating almost a movement. And that, that was interesting. And then if we could do it in a, in a profitable format where it’s, you know, she talked about fundraising, charity’s amazing. But charities are often not self-sustaining. Almost never are they. And so if we’re creating community and there’s profit built in, that’s a sustainable business model. That means the people that are, that are, are selling our products, the people that are you know, affected by, in a positive way by our products, we could build something that would be built to last. So that, that got interesting.
SJ (09:15):
I think also, you look at your life, we look back at this 14 years of hell. But you look back and like, you know, we were put in this position, we went through, we learned what we did, and it was almost like, this is what we’re supposed to do. I, I couldn’t sleep at night. Not ’cause I daughter was a newborn, but like, I just, just kept me up saying like, we need to do something and we can do something. And just that, I think that drive of, you know, you talked earlier just about like, you feel like there’s a calling in life and what, what we could do and what we could bring together and who we could have help us. Like we, we need to do this. We cannot, we can’t not do it.
AJV (09:50):
I love that. Hasn’t been either
BJ (09:52):
AJV (09:55):
BJ (09:57):
Starting business during a pandemic is awesome.
AJV (09:58):
AJV (10:43):
And it was like, we couldn’t not do it. We would’ve been stupid to not do it with such clarity of what, you know, like what our giftings were and what we were able to do. And to find other people who have found that is one, it’s really special. So congratulations to you. But it’s also really hard, right? Like starting anything is not easy. So I would love to hear from you, from both of you, because I’d love to hear both perspectives of, for the person who’s listening, who’s going, that’s great. I know this thing that I’m called to do, but what do I do? Like, yes, I, I know that there’s something in my heart, there is something that is calling me, but I’m also like pretty successful. I’m comfortable and doing this over thing, this other thing over here. And to leave that and just like cold Turkey do something else, feels kind of like irresponsible. What would you say to that person of going like, here’s the, the the first step that you should do. Or here’s what you should be asking. Here’s what you should be doing. Here’s what you should be thinking. And I would just love to hear it through what you guys did.
BJ (11:47):
You wanna start or you want me to start? You guys?
BJ (11:53):
I’m gonna speak on her behalf. ’cause She, she, she’s, I think the thing that is probably the most important is whatever you do is not gonna be perfect, but if you do nothing, you’ll get nothing. Right? So the the first step is to take action, right? You, you don’t have a plan, you don’t have a clear path. I think what held me personally back at the beginning was, you know, this idea of, well, I don’t wanna do this unless it’s really, really good. Unless it’s perfect. And what I’ve learned about a startup, the definition of a startup is can you make and learn, make enough mistakes and learn from those mistakes to, to get to profitability before you run outta capital
BJ (12:45):
And so if you, if you look at that, the definition of success is making those mistakes. And so it’s okay. And that was hard for me to accept. And you know, I remember working on this financial model for weeks and weeks and not being one to, to to, to put it in front of everybody in case it wasn’t right. Well, of course it’s not right. You’re guessing about the future, it’s not gonna be right. But it took many, many months for me to kind of work through that. It took us a few months to figure out how to work together. Unfortunately we have very complimentary strengths. We don’t compete. You know, I I I’m on the operations and the finance and the strategy side, and she’s very much people and passion and community and pr I mean, she’s great at all of those things. And so it works for us. But I, if I had distill it down, it is just move right? Take a step, take another step, take another step, make a mistake, turn a little bit. The word pivot is probably overused, but it’s exactly right. You know, w when we were started looking at doing this business, it was gonna be an infertility support business, but we couldn’t figure out how to make that work.
SJ (13:47):
Not this business business concept.
BJ (13:49):
Correct. But when we started down this path, that’s what we were looking at. And then we started looking into different research and our eyes open. And so I think it’s also good to remember what you think you’re gonna start with is not where you’re gonna end. And that’s okay. Right? Don’t fall in love with something so much that the, the, the numbers and the data and your customers, they tell you what you are if you listen.
AJV (14:09):
Mm-Hmm. That’s wise.
SJ (14:11):
No. And so I was working at a university. I would go and hear amazing speakers. So billionaires come to speak and they, they talk about like your, think of the end of your life, your eulogy, what you want your eulogy to be. And so while we said like we, I made a wealth university of wealthier. Yes. It was fil Phi philanthropic. And I, I got a lot of grad, a lot of meaning from that. Like, we knew we could do better. And I think also the, the more you learn, the better you do. And so we couldn’t unlearn, we couldn’t say like, just keep it to ourselves. We said we, this truly impacts everyone. And so, and we have, we have resources. We, we can do this. And so, but it is taking that first step and then like, write it down, write down what you want and look at it, power of manifestation, say it, and, and then just go for it. And you, people always doubt themselves. We doubt ourselves plenty of times. But it’s that belief daily,
BJ (15:04):
Daily
SJ (15:04):
AJV (15:05):
I relate.
SJ (15:06):
But no, it’s the belief and then, and then doing the work. ’cause It is, that is work.
AJV (15:12):
You know, I love what you, I I love that you said that because you said it’s you know, we all doubt ourselves. But you just gotta go. And I, I think a lot of people are stuck. They can’t get beyond their doubting, they can’t get beyond the what ifs. But you did, so how did you do it? Like how did you go like, this is good enough? Like we are good enough, we can figure this out. Like, because I, I don’t think that’s common. An everyday mindset to go, I got this. I can figure it out.
SJ (15:42):
I, I joke. I said, Ben, we were able to figure out how to have two genetic children without us giving birth. Without me giving birth.
BJ (15:54):
Yeah. I, you know, in my prior role working in a family office, I did lots of different things. And I always looked at that as a liability. Everybody says, you know, to to, to really be successful, you gotta be specialized deep in one skillset. And that’s true. If you, if you’re a doctor, if you’re, you know, even an attorney, you wanna be, you know, specialized. But if you’re an entrepreneur, being able to do a lot of different things comes in helpful. ’cause You’re not, you don’t quite know. Like, I’m still, I excel models and fortunately I have that skillset and sometimes we have to put together presentations and I can do that myself if I have to. And so I think often what we think are liabilities, if we reframe it can be the asset that you need. And that can give you the confidence.
BJ (16:37):
I, I have all kinds of, you know, doubts. We all have our personal struggles, but I know I’m extremely resourceful. And if I’m put in a situation, I can fix just about anything. I can figure just about anything out. So while I may doubt other things, I know I can figure stuff out if I just give it a little bit of time and then I’d, I’d add a second piece to it. Nobody achieves success on their own. So find yourself either a partner or somebody that’s an accountability person, a partner or or friend, somebody that that’s got your back that that can support you. And that was one of the things too. When we made the decision, it was who are we gonna surround ourselves with to make us better people and to make the world a better place? And it’s gotta be positive people, right?
BJ (17:25):
We need to create a work environment that’s positive and and uplifting. And if, if we don’t have that in our lives, let’s go. Let’s go build it. Let’s build, let’s build the environment that we want. Let’s build the life. And, and that was another thing. We, we decided let’s be intentional about how we live. And now that we have this family, I wanna spend time with them. And if I have to go and I have a desk job and I have certain things that take me away from that family, I, I don’t get to control that. And we worked so hard to have a family. We decided let’s, let’s figure out how to write our own, our own future. And that meant for us, we needed to, to create a business so we could mix our lifestyle with our livelihood.
AJV (18:02):
Mm. All right. So there’s like so many thoughts in my head, right? I have right now. So I’m gonna try to organize them. All right, so my next question, and then I have like three other topics and I’m like, oh my gosh, I wanna know this so much. But my first question is, you guys kind of mentioned like, we kind of started down this whole first concept of, you know, kind of like fertility support, infertility support, education. But eventually you have ended and a very different lane with, you know, hormone products. And so how did you end up there? And then tell us about, tell us about your products. Like how did you come up with this?
BJ (18:38):
I’ll take part one and I she’ll take part two. I think that would be a great setup. So you know, again, in my prior role I did a lot of different things from operating businesses to investing in, in venture capital opportunities to private equity investing to real estate. And so you start seeing patterns and you start seeing things and you start understanding that a key to a successful business is making sure that you have a large enough market. ’cause You’re never gonna own a market. So if you’re gonna get a small slice of something, it better be a big slice. You know, a small piece. Let’s make it a big pie, right? And we had these challenges. We, we knew that the infertility journey and process was, was painful and was confusing and felt helpless. And we thought if we could create a system, if we could create an app, if we could create this, we create that.
BJ (19:25):
All of that sounded good. And it felt good. The problem I was having as I was looking at the market size and saying, wait, if you think about it, you know, only 20 or 30% of the population at any given time is trying to have a family right? Of childbearing age. And then only 20% of that has infertility problems. And then nobody wants to talk about infertility, which means you’re not gonna get a word of mouth recommendation. And as soon as they get pregnant, they’re gonna churn out. So it was that process, and this is a little bit maybe more analytical, but this, this is literally, I went through it and chopped it all the way down. I’m like, man, in order for us to make this a profitable endeavor, we’re gonna have to charge a lot of money, which is the opposite of what we wanna do.
BJ (20:03):
So then it was, well, if we can’t do that, what attached to our problem, our pain, what else could we do? So we flipped it around and started asking a different question. And it was that process. And reading the same studies and the same research with a different lens, instead of just infertility, what other things could we attach to, well, the studies that talked about hormones and hormone disruption and even hormone health next to infertility would be cancers would be weight would be developmental disorders, would be correlations with depression. And, you know, even autoimmune things. And then I was like, wait a second. Those are all of the things that all of us are dealing with one way or another. Either on a first order ourselves or second order our families. So that means this is everyone. When we’re talking about hormones, everybody has an endocrine dis endocrine system.
BJ (20:54):
A hormone system. Hormones are the chemical messengers that tell our bodies what to do and when to do. It tells us when we’re tired, tells us when we’re hungry, tells our muscles to build or for not build, right? The testosterone there bone density, it regulates our temperature, right? All of these things happen through our hormones. And when they are in what’s called homeostasis, when they’re in balance, good things happen. And when they’re out of balance, bad things happen and we don’t feel well, and we don’t look well. Right? And over time, if they happen repeatedly, that’s when you have things like cancer that creeps in. ’cause You’re turning these switches on and off. It’s like, like you flip a light switch enough times, the light will fail. It’s the same kind of thing. You’re turning these, these switches off and on. And then hormone disruptors, this will lead into the products piece.
BJ (21:39):
But hormone disruptors, they’re, they’re chemicals in our environment that can mimic the, the hormones. So think of like a lock and key system. Well, there’s some chemicals that can go and turn open up a door that it shouldn’t, right? Or close it when it shouldn’t. And that, that has un unintended consequences. And so when that happens enough during key developmental times, like in utero, right? If you, if the mother’s exposed to chemicals that can be passed on to the baby mm-Hmm. And if it’s a male baby, there’s too much estrogen. Now you see sperm counts that are declining around the globe. And it can sound scary or it can be hopeful. Like, okay, well I know some of these things, nobody knows about this. If I share that with them, knowledge is power. And if we provide some products that help people make better choices, that’s positive too.
BJ (22:23):
We should have smiles on our faces, not scare people, right? So that, that was once we started looking at that and said, okay, if we can make this a positive thing, not point people and tell ’em, you’re, you’re, you’re making bad choices. No, let’s give you, let’s give you some information so you can make better choices. And then let’s provide some products that help on these, these, these health principles of, of better hydration and better sleep and less stress you know, better nutrients you know, reduction of inflammation. Those are the pillars that we, we build all our products around. Well,
SJ (22:52):
So we read a study that said the average American woman puts on 12 products a day, which is over 160 chemicals a day. Average man puts on over 80 chemicals a day. And then we’re surrounded up to hundreds of chemicals every day in
BJ (23:03):
Our environment. In our
SJ (23:03):
Environment. Yeah. And so we said, if we can really simplify this, and let’s just talk about what was, what goes on, in and around your body. So are three product pillars we can make these are make better choices. We have world renowned doctors on our medical advisory board, and one of our doctors, Kareem, is Dr.
BJ (23:42):
Yeah. And this, this was, we don’t think about that. What you put on your skin gets in your bloodstream. She talked about hormone cream, but think about a pain patch, right? Literally put a patch on your, on your lower back and you, it it’s absorbing through your skin a nicotine patch. All of those things, medicine absorb. So the the, the corollary or the alternative to that is also bad things get absorbed into your skin. Right?
SJ (24:05):
And so we, we launched with skincare and Ben’s prior career, he, he ran a, a very big wine company. Large.
BJ (24:12):
And I knew, I knew nothing about wine, but I, yes. And
SJ (24:14):
So, but he was looking, we we didn’t drink alcohol growing up. We didn’t know that wine. It was like the number one wine store on the west coast. And he said, why is there a $5 bottle of grape juice and a $5,000 bottle of grape juice? Like what, what what actually goes in it? It’s, so we,
BJ (24:27):
That’s what happens when you don’t know anything about something
SJ (24:30):
Analytically, but then we start learning. It’s, it’s the quality of the products. Yeah. Yeah. Where, where everything’s grown. It’s the soil. It’s, it’s how, how it’s crafted. And so we actually had that mentality when we were saying skincare. So it’s crafted, it’s making sure you have the right quality ingredients, but also the right amount of each ingredient when, when you’re formulating. And so really looked at that process. And so we have incredible skincare. We try to, everything we have is gender neutral, it’s safe for kids, safe for pregnancy. And we looked at that chemical number of people, products, people are putting in their bodies and said, let’s make everything really versatile. So people say they, you know, we have a two step regimen. So our, our more, our J serum people say it replaces their moisturizer, their serum, their eye cream, their vitamin C serum, and their toner all with one product, which is amazing because rate performance, but then also you’re now reducing the number of chemicals you’re putting on your body every day
BJ (25:24):
With us, without us having to preach about it. We just create a product that solves, solves multiple pro problems. ’cause You know, too often products are the result of just marketing efforts, another way to sell things. And if you strip it back, well, can I get the same results with fewer things? Yeah. That does two things. It gives you back time. Oftentimes it gives you back money, right? And it reduces the number of chemicals so that then you, you’re, you’re doing something better for your health. So that was kind of our initial premise.
AJV (25:52):
You know, what I love about what you guys have just said is it’s both a passion focused endeavor, but also with some logical business minded decisions. Which is why, you know, you know, one of the things that we talk a lot about at Brand Builders Group is like, you know, just because you can doesn’t mean you should Mm-Hmm.
AJV (26:46):
And it’s like, not all passion projects make it. And I think a lot of that is because the business piece of it, which is a part of it doesn’t come into consideration sometimes. It’s like you gotta, you gotta go through the thought process that you guys thought process that you did of how big is this market? And you know, if we zone in here, what’s the tertiary, and, you know, the secondary. And, but I think there’s a really important part of that, of going, it’s one thing to be feel called to do it, which should be like, you know, the act, the activator. But then there’s also gotta be the analysis part to go, is it viable? Right? Will it last? Can I make it? And you guys have done both of those things really successfully because you did both of those things.
BJ (27:30):
I what, what I’m hearing you say is it’s gotta make sense in your heart, but also in your mind. Yeah. If it’s, if it’s one without the other, it’s not gonna work.
AJV (27:38):
Yeah. And I think that’s, it’s, it’s rare, but when it comes together, like magic happens. And so here’s my next question for you guys. You just, you said earlier, you guys started this three years ago. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey from three years ago to today?
BJ (27:54):
Yeah. Our, our three year anniversaries, well our, our 22 year wedding anniversary is May 2nd, but our, our three year business anniversary is May 22nd. So it’s coming up in 23 days. The journey, well, I’ll, I’ll kick us off. It starts with a concept, starts with an idea, and, and then you have an idea of how you’re gonna take it to market. And you fall in love with that idea. And we’re gonna have plenty of resources. We’re gonna have all the money we need, we’re gonna find investors, we’re gonna go to market and it’s gonna work. And we had that all lined up and it was we actually were concepting this a year before we launched, right? So we were trying to get, we were hoping to launch four years ago. So we concepted this thing. We had a partner that was a, a large family office that was gonna back us.
BJ (28:43):
And they said, look, we’ll look programmatic approach, which means I’ll give you a check now at a certain valuation and when you hit these milestones, we’ll give you another check. And then it was ideal. Like we could not have to go out and worry about cash. And we’re getting deeper and deeper into conversations. It’s looking very promising. We’re not looking at any other potential investors. We hire our first two employees and Covid hits, this is March, right? All this stuff in March of 2020 Covid hits. And we are, we have our products that we have figured out, but now the lead time goes from like, you know, six weeks to six months. And what it did it forced us to do a whole bunch of testing. ’cause We didn’t really have product. So we, we, we took us a different approach to get to market.
BJ (29:28):
We had to go hands on. We didn’t have the capital that we thought we would have, so we had to be extremely scrappy. So we, you know, we developed a business model that was really powered by word of mouth, mouth. And then we went out and started building community to support the overall message. And we did a lot of in-person events, you know, even, even even during covid, like we would do it in a safe way. And things got better as, as our products came in. The, the wave had had slowed down. There was a lot more education and, you know, you could start traveling. You just wear a mask and things like that. But it took, it took months to get there. So maybe Sarah could talk about this, like the, the community building element of it. ’cause I think it’s, it’s interesting when you’re doing live events, when we’re talking to people and we’re sharing our brand and our story, we would learn by the response on people’s faces. If we’re saying words, like, we started talking about endocrine disrupting chemicals and toxic load and all these things, and people’s eyes would nod, but their eyes were off.
AJV (30:29):
You just got way too fancy from me.
BJ (30:32):
Yeah. And then we have a, this kind of affiliate, affiliate plus program where people can sign up and sell our products and they, you know, they get their own links and all this stuff. Well, they’d say, I, I love your story. They love hearing our infertility story. But, and I’m, I’m gonna sign up and sell these products, but I need about two weeks to study all this stuff before I open my mouth. You know? And so that’s the exact opposite. You want it to be so easy that it comes out naturally. So we learned that by testing and our form of testing was in person. Other people you can learn it from doing, you know, you, you, you talk about building a business. How do you do it? Test, test without, you know, make your mistakes, learn what works and what doesn’t. Try not to spend a lot of resources and do it efficiently. We were forced to do that because of you know, what, what would’ve been the worst thing is we thought we had it all figured out. We had all the money that we needed, and we went out and spent a bunch of money going down a path that ultimately wouldn’t have worked. Yeah, you can, you can convince yourself. But when you’re standing in front of people having a conversation, the feedback is live. Like, so we tell ’em, tell her how, how we started. Well, I
AJV (31:30):
Wanna clarify one thing really quickly. These, all these events you were doing with community building, I’m gonna make a big assumption that those events were free, but tell me if they were paid.
BJ (31:40):
No, we, they were free and we would, so
SJ (31:43):
Go ahead. So I’ll tell you what, we chose our business model. So we were learning about these chemicals and just like, I had no hormone, hormone health, but also like the fact, like I had no clue that my products were causing me not to get pregnant. Like, or, or could, could, yes. But like, oh my gosh, I had no clue the importance. And so we said, you know, we are gonna create products, but if we’re just gonna sell them at a store, that doesn’t solve the solution because people don’t know. So we, we need to create awareness, we need education, content, community with products. That’s really the holistic solution. And when I was at graduate school, my favorite Harvard business case study was on a lady named Brownie Weiss. She invented the Tupperware party back in the fifties. And so she created a platform for women back in the fifties when they, no one was working outside the home.
SJ (32:26):
She’d be able to, to have, bring in resources. And at the end of her video, we watched this black and white the case study watched a black and white film of her recognizing woman on stage and seeing these men just cry. They were so imp impacted. And so I actually flew and went to her museum in Orlando after I graduated 15 years ago-ish. But then we were saying, you know, Ben, like our go-to-market strategy, it’s more than just selling products. We need, we need this. And how do we elevate this? How do we modernize it? Where we make it? Where, you know, you’re already asking your friends for product recommendations. I mean, if I’m gonna buy something I, you know, see my friend’s leg. And so like, people are already spending that way. They’re, and they, they’re recommending products already. How do we make this modern?
SJ (33:10):
How do we make it elevated? How do we do it where you can go? And so when we first launched, we had 200 advocates. They have 21. And we, we said, Hey, if you guys get 50 people in a room, we will fly in and support you and we’re gonna show up. And so we gave ’em some budget. She was to help pay, you know, for, you know, some products or charcuterie, whatever it was. But then they were in 60 cities the next few months. And then we, we came back and we said, well, we wanna actually be in this business so we can see our kids
AJV (33:39):
So,
SJ (33:40):
So how do we do this where we can have our kids go with us? And
BJ (33:43):
We grew really rapidly but we were out hustling. And I think that’s another lesson. Like it doesn’t just happen. It doesn’t just happen. Some people get lucky and those are the stories that everybody wants to hear, but it doesn’t happen, especially if you’re gonna build a brand and you’re gonna build about a topic that’s not, not widely known. You gotta, you gotta really, you know, move the needle yourself.
AJV (34:02):
I wanna, I wanna highlight two things ’cause I think this is so important and it’s what nobody talks about. Because everyone wants to figure out how do you make mailbox money? How do you build it one time and then make money while you sleep? I still don’t know how people do that.
AJV (34:52):
I just like to be sharing some honest truth that likely won’t happen. But if you’re willing to get on a plane and go 60 places for free to go, I care about this so much, I’ll be there. And you get other people to come along with you, guess what? It’s gonna work. Maybe not on your timeline, but eventually it’s gonna work. And so I just wanna like one, say kudos to the both of you. ’cause I know what it’s like to be that person along with my husband. And that is not a message you hear from a lot of people today. And so I just, one, thanks for sharing that and calling some spotlight to what you actually did and are doing, because that is actually how business is still built today. And I think it’s really important to highlight in rooms with people building community, sharing it and making it where it’s this human relationship again.
SJ (35:40):
It’s so interesting you’re saying that. So we have our story, our story really enables other people to share their stories. And whether it’s simple swaps, these are, you know, great products or whether, you know, we’ve had an event last summer, this lady had her child had cancer and just saying like, this, these are products I’m already using, but being in there and showing up and then also what you’re talking about, bus building a business that’s makes money while you sleep. So like, all of our products are consumable. So these are products people, like we have over 50% of our, our revenue comes in from subscriptions because people try our products, they love it, and then they just have it every month since them.
BJ (36:16):
Yeah, yeah. But we also build systems to encourage that and to encourage the conversation. And I think one of the rewarding parts though of building a business, we just, so our, our, we call ’em advocates, our human grace product advocates. Our advocates can earn money, but they can also earn, like we set up a point system and they can earn into a, an incentive trip, right? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (36:38):
Awesome. Love that.
BJ (36:40):
It was incredible. Yeah. And they had a, we had an amazing time and came together. And what is is cool is we knew that we wanted to build something. We wanted to be surrounded by people that were good people. And so we needed to build a foundation of community that way. And we have an incredible community of advocates who support each other, cheer each other on, you know, they’re, they’re in theory, they’re in competition trying to outperform, but they’re also, they’re all doing it in a, in, in a positive way. Like, we have such a great culture. And, you know, I think some of that, they, they, our advocates have told us it’s because we have showed up and we didn’t really realize what we were doing. But I think when you lead by example, the, it comes through in your brand and it, it, it bring, brings a brand of, of both authenticity and integrity. Hmm. And that’s that’s something that’s super important.
AJV (37:28):
Yeah. I think one of the other things that you guys mentioned that I, I wanna circle back to is this whole idea of getting to start a business with one, something you’re passionate about and you’re helping people, but also being able to design how you want your family to run is a really important part of that. And then you just mentioned that again, of like, well, after doing 60 events in just a few months, we realized maybe we’d like to see these kids of ours. And so I’d like to hear about what are you guys doing to create a family, right? As a business. And I think that’s why so many people are attracted to entrepreneurship is because there is this idea, this dream of creating your own schedule, designing your life the way you want it. And then unfortunately, if you’re not super intentional about it, all of a sudden that ain’t happening.
AJV (38:15):
Right? And you’re like, why am I doing this again? This is, I’m working longer hours and seeing my family less than I was before I did this. And it does take some intentionality of working together as a married couple, right? So I’d love to hear about how that’s been the last three years, but also making the decision of like, no, how do we, how do we grow this? How do we commit to this and design a family and a marriage and a life that fits within what we said we wanted? So I’d love to hear both of those things
BJ (38:46):
Start. Mm-Hmm. Talk about rrb. Oh, so it was his idea, Richard. Yeah. We, we did that first summer. And summer summertimes are typically when we, we would go out because in our business we have a, it’s mostly women who sell our products. So o often I’m the only guy in the room actually,
BJ (39:27):
But then I, I started thinking, well, what we’re doing is we’re reacting to demand instead of scheduling it, right? So it was too much, I mean, you talk about this, we, we weren’t intentional. We were reacting to what was working right? And trying to do more of that. And then we didn’t think, well, if it’s working, we, we could still do that. But what if we said, we’re going to be here in this city on this date. If you wanna host something, let’s coordinate it there and then just put it out in advance. And if we did that, we still could. And we wanted to bring our kids, well, it doesn’t make sense to have four plane tickets. And then since we work together, we have to have somebody come with us, a help, a babysitter, a nanny. So now you’re talking about five, which means now you got two hotel rooms and, and I just got this idea, maybe we should just buy an RV and just kind of flip it around.
BJ (40:15):
So it was
BJ (40:57):
So we we’re, we’re driving in, we’re 15 minutes out from the dealership and he says the RV that you described to me just pulled in from the factory and it, it still got its stickers all over it. You guys want to come take a look? And we said, we’ll be there in 15 minutes.
SJ (41:41):
From LA to Seattle, Boston, DC and back. Oh my gosh.
BJ (41:45):
Yeah. It was too much
SJ (42:15):
Well, so the topic of hormone health is trending, which is super exciting. And, but, and especially our business grows. But, so in November, Ben and I didn’t get to see our kids for 20 nights. We are housed, the kids are in private school with nanny. But like, we wait, so I came back back, it’s like after Thanksgiving and Ben’s like, okay, you could find a new nanny who will homeschool travel. Oh, be fine. Living an rv, going anywhere we go. And I,
BJ (42:39):
It’s because we work together, we, it’s, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t shift it. Like we we’re cover the mornings
SJ (42:44):
Co CEOs 24 7. And so I started calling universities, universities didn’t wanna have, you know, graduates go to private family. And so put an add out on care.com and found, I found her, but I think it’s, it’s okay. We have,
BJ (42:58):
She had spent, she had spent the prayer year backpacking around the world. So she was fine with it, that she had grown up in a small community. She had been homeschooled, so she knew how to, to homeschool. So, but it’s, we thought let’s test it. Let’s try it. Yeah.
SJ (43:09):
But it’s also love that I think say like, what kind of life do I wanna live? Mm-Hmm.
BJ (43:23):
This was before we started the business.
SJ (43:24):
Yeah. Went pro walk. And we said, what would our lives look like if we had zero restrictions, no jobs, no house, no. Like what, what
BJ (43:32):
Life do we money is not an issue. What does it, what does it look like? What does it feel like? How, where are we? How, how, you know.
SJ (43:38):
And so it was really that exercise of saying, okay, we want, I wanted to work with him. He didn’t really want work with me originally
BJ (43:59):
We, we are not let’s just No, no,
SJ (44:00):
We we’re not true. Not, but it’s not private jets that make us feel whole, you
BJ (44:06):
Know, it’s, it’s clearly, it’s, it’s an RV
SJ (44:11):
Drugs for different folks.
BJ (44:12):
It’s our, it’s Orlando. There we go. But, but
SJ (44:14):
Truly like, like we’re so much more present and intentional our rv because we’ll go somewhere. We’ll be there for a week. So we wanna go explore all the, the local farmer’s markets and, and show our kids. And so that has been like, and so we’ve had this dream. We wrote it out. We said, this is okay, now how do we backfill this? So we got rid of our house. We, we did different things that, you know, but this, like, we, I’m so much more fulfilled in my life now and like being able to be in Hawaii, we’re Grand Wale, which is incredible hotel.
BJ (44:46):
This is a little plug for my wife. So Grand Wale is a Waldorf Astoria property, and she built a relationship with the executive team and eventually got introduced to the spa. So Grand Wale in their new $55 million spa that just finished a renovation is selling Hu and Grace products, our wellness products. That’s amazing.
SJ (45:06):
Yeah. It was so incredible to go be there with a hundred of our top advocates with our cue and our grace to walk into saw, see the kids. But the very last night we did a white party and we had one of our advocates speak and she said, you know, I, I said, what if she goes, I never thought I could do anything like this. But she goes, I saw Hawaii, I love the products. She goes, what if I could do it? And so I think it’s saying, what if, and then what can I do to get there?
AJV (45:33):
I love that. And I think just the whole concept of actually spending time to go, what kind of life do I want? Right? I, you know, you hear statistics all the time about people spend more time planning their annual vacation than they do their life. Like what would it be like if you actually said, this is the life that we want. So how, how do we get there? How do we build it? And I love, I love hearing stories like that. Now how old are your kids now?
BJ (46:00):
Grace just turned five. Hugh is six, about to turn seven. And my, you
AJV (46:04):
Guys are traveling the country with a 5-year-old and a 6-year-old. Yeah.
SJ (46:08):
And it was started when they were two and four. So Yes.
BJ (46:12):
We just, we just had some friends over, we’re currently in California, in Malibu, and we, we were from, we lived in LA for 15 years. So this is, this is, you know, home if, if we pick a home that’s not on wheels. But, so we came into town, we’re, we’re, we’ve got a, a ocean view lot in right off the PCH and our kids are out riding their bikes. We invite some friends over, they bring their kids over our kids instantly make friends because they, they’re, I think kids like a schedule, but they also like to be free. Hmm. And so while they’re this age, you only get this shot once. And we’ve, that, that’s what we decide is we’re not gonna wait to be parents and we’re not gonna wait. We’re gonna, we’re gonna just do it now. We’re gonna be here and be present.
BJ (46:50):
So every single morning they have, we have our, our, our master bedroom in the back, you know, a quarter of the, of the rv. It’s got a door and the kids have bunk beds on the other side of that door. And every single morning we wake up before the kids and we just lay in bed and we hear the, the, the door open. ’cause They’re kinda like closet doors. And we hear footsteps. And then our son rushes in through the door, jumps on us laughing, and we hold him every single morning. Mm-Hmm. And it’s the absolute best thing. And when we, we, you know, we have a house in Utah and it’s a good sized place. When we’re there, they kind of get distracted and they go do other things. They don’t come up to the, to the room. But in the rv it’s just, it’s, it’s so small and intimate. So every morning we have that family time. We don’t, you know, and it’s not, it’s not late. We start our days on time, you know, but we, we start with that, that does mean I’m not up exercising. I’m just laying there taking hugs. But that’s, that’s not gonna last. And so we’re just trying to take, take it while we can, how we can.
AJV (47:47):
That’s a great reminder of the, the power of proximity.
BJ (47:50):
Yeah.
AJV (47:51):
Right. For family, for friends, for whatever. But there’s a lot of power in proximity. That’s a great reminder. Sarah, what were you gonna say?
SJ (47:59):
No, you said, you asked how we do marriage and parenting and, and business owners. So mornings are our kids and like we, we go, we’ll do that. We’ll try to go for a walk, you know, be with them in the morning, then we go to work and it’s work time. And then at night we really try to shut it off. I’ll leave my phone in the other room. If I have an idea or need to tell Ben, I’ll actually go send him an email and he can check it the next day. She,
BJ (48:24):
She ping, she pings me all night long. I’m like, why are you doing this?
AJV (48:28):
Spilling up your inbox.
SJ (48:29):
But you need, but you need a mean, we need to have our marriage too.
BJ (48:33):
You know? And, and I think you, you just have to be open. Like this morning we were, we were actually driving in here, we’re at a, a an office building. We were driving from Malibu to, to la and Sarah was on her phone plugging away. And I just said, Hey, can, can I have my wife for a minute? You know, can
AJV (48:59):
Absolutely.
BJ (49:00):
Otherwise you build resentment. If you don’t, if you don’t say it, she can’t, she can’t know it. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (49:10):
Well, I, you guys have learned a lot in only three years of working together because my husband,
BJ (49:15):
Well, it was also, there’s
AJV (49:16):
Together for 17 years and it took us way longer than three years to learn those lessons.
BJ (49:21):
Yeah. Way longer. We’re still, we’re still learning them.
AJV (49:25):
Y’all, this is, I I, I have loved all the different assets or facets of this conversation. And one of the things that I wanna make sure we get to before we run outta time is I want people to know about, you know, just the humane and grace products, right? So you mentioned the skincare line. What else do we need to know when it comes to finding high quality products that are, that are healthy and good for you, that don’t do more damage than they do good. And then where should people go to learn more about human grace? So tell us a little bit about what are the products, right? And then where do we go?
SJ (49:58):
So we also have, we have skincare, which is amazing. We just got, actually, we just got picked up in Forbes for Best Bo one Top five Body Butters. We had no clue that you don’t have pr. So
BJ (50:39):
Which, which, which is the Master de detoxifier reduces inflammation.
SJ (50:42):
Patent prebiotic probiotic. There’s magnesium’s fiber, electrolytes. But we said, going back to the premise, excuse me, it’s like all in one mm-Hmm.
BJ (51:27):
You have more energy. I mean, it’s, it’s natural. None of this is caffeine based. This is natural energy production. So coq 10, which helps your mitochondrial activity. And, and I think part of the premise too was people, we all need to drink water, but we like to drink stuff that tastes good. So if we drink water that tastes good, why wouldn’t we put something in it that’s functional? So we need an electrolyte complex. And if we’re gonna do that, why don’t we put a couple other things in there that we all need. We need a reduction of inflammation. Mm-Hmm. The, the body needs to be detoxified, not on monthly basis, on a daily basis. You, you need to be flushing things outta your system. And to do that, you need hydration. And then you need things that help reduce inflammation. And then our guts need to perform well.
BJ (52:07):
And when our guts perform well, we look better, we feel better, we think clearer. So we put all of that into one product. And that hydrate detox product is become our number one seller. And interestingly, we talked about this. We had a vision of, of what our company would look like and what, you know, initially it was a skincare company. Well, if you look at our numbers, we’re a wellness company. Mm-Hmm.
SJ (52:51):
So some of the most toxic chemicals are under your kitchen sink. And so our one house, house clean product replaces every chemical in house. Yeah. Amazing. We been really intentional. We’ve been fortunate through our networks to be able to get introductions to some of the best formulators in the world. Like our home cleaner. They do all of like the top of the line home, clean home cleaners, non toxic cleaners,
BJ (53:12):
Formulation group.
SJ (53:13):
And they now exclusively use our human grace products to clean their lab. So it’s also fun to hear, like, because people, they want, they want to help others. I think even formulators, they, they fall in love with what we’re building. Because it isn’t just Sarah and Ben’s business. These are thousands of people that they’re impacting. And we were able to tell those really cool ingredient stories, product stories, how it’s impactful. It’s, it’s fun. It’s exciting.
AJV (53:38):
AJV (54:21):
And then also I just wanna share this with all of our listeners, and this will be in the show notes as well, that Sarah and Ben have been so gracious and so kind. To also give us a very special link just for all the influential personal brand listeners. So if you would like to learn more about these products, if you go to Hugh and grace.com/brand builder, that is where you can learn about these. And if you go to that place, you’re gonna get an opportunity to also get 10% off, which is so generous and so kind. So if you’re looking for cleaner and better products to help you with your skincare in, on and around, you know, that’s good. If I can remember it go to Hugh and grace.com/brand builder, check it out, get some products. And then Sarah, Ben, if they just wanna connect with you as individuals, what’s the best platform for people to go to you
SJ (55:17):
Probably Instagram or LinkedIn, but
BJ (55:19):
We, yeah. Go to our Instagram page and you, what you’ll see if, if you follow the stories, we have our advocate community. We now have 6,000 people who are selling our products or have signed up over time. And you’ll get to see their stories and what they’re doing and things demonstration. RV
SJ (55:39):
And, and yeah, HelioScope, HUGH people do ask that question.
BJ (55:42):
Yeah. Hugh and Grace, H-U-G-H-A-N-D-G-R-A-C e.com. Or you can find the same thing on Instagram and
AJV (55:50):
I’ll be sure to put all those in the show notes as well. Yeah. Awesome. Y’all, thank you so much. Such an awesome conversation. And for y’all listening, I’ll put all the links, all the handles on the show notes. So go there, grab ’em, connect with them, check out these products, and then stick around for the recap episode. That will be coming up next. We’ll see you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 478: Small Business Success Secrets with April Garcia
RV (00:02):
It’s always a privilege when I get to introduce you to someone that I’ve known for years and worked with as a friend also as a client. And April Garcia is one of my favorite people that we have ever worked with. She was one of the early BBG members B-B-G-O-G as we like to say. And she comes from a world of big, big business. And she climbed the ladder as a top performer in the financial and telecom industries. She’s got a bachelor’s degree in biology. She built several businesses. She’s advised both US and international corporations all the way from like startup to billion dollar enterprises, right? So she’s an expert in growing revenue, sales, operations, and just kind of like what it takes to scale. But a few years ago, she made a pivot to say, I wanna start working with small businesses to help them succeed. And that’s what we’re gonna talk about today, is basically how can small businesses apply the principles of big business to help ’em scale faster? And where should they not try to be, like big businesses so that they can scale faster? So anyways, welcome to the show. April Garcia, it’s great to have you,
AG (01:12):
Rory. It’s so good to be here. I’m so glad that we made this happen, and it has been such a journey with you, with the company I’ve loved working together, and I so appreciate being here today.
RV (01:22):
Well, thanks buddy. So I just wanna start, like, right, what I was just talking about is going, what, you come from the big business world. You’ve been working, helping small businesses. What do small business owners need to know and ex like, what do they need to do, like big businesses? How do, how should they be thinking more like big businesses? Mm-Hmm.
AG (01:57):
Yeah. There’s so many things. I’m gonna try to boil ’em down to just a couple of things. Part of it is that we, we don’t realize when we’re leveling up, we’re a small business owner. We start with zero sales, zero experience. And it’s not like someone comes to you and says, Hey, you just crossed this threshold. Now you need to start doing these things. Or you need to let go of these old habits. And so there’s no kind of this magic moment where someone comes to you and says, it’s time for, for example, processes. And so, one of the first things I will tell you is, when I made this transition from big business to small business, what I found overwhelming was that, well, small business owners were completely overwhelmed. They had way more things than could possibly get done. And so it’s, it’s funny, I did this exercise one time.
AG (02:40):
I was, I was doing a training and I said, okay, if there’s one word that could describe your state, write it down on a piece of paper and I’m gonna gather everyone’s up, and then I’m gonna look at it. And there’s probably 30 business owners in the room, and they ran anywhere from they’re small business owners, you’d say probably about 500 K to about 5 million. And they all wrote down a word. And then I opened it up, and every single one of the words were some iteration of overwhelmed. Wow. Every single one of them. And then I said, okay, we’re gonna take this a little bit farther. I said, if you could have a superpower, what would it be? And now I put a little space between these two questions. And what was very interesting is I was kind of thinking we’d get a couple of, like flying or I don’t know, see-through walls or something like that.
AG (03:24):
Ultimately, it was some version of could I multiply myself like, or slow down time so I could get more things done. And I remember this hitting me like a, a, a ton of bricks. And I thought, gosh, they’re really struggling with overwhelm. And so part of that is when we’re small businesses, we don’t think about things like processes. Processes aren’t fun, processes aren’t sexy. But if you don’t have time for processes, you never have time, right? And so, one of the things that big businesses have, they have processes, they have SOPs, standard operating procedures. Now, this doesn’t have to be a super involved process. This doesn’t have to be someone that, you know, an onset consultant that you bring in to do this. Just capturing what needs to happen to make your business run so that as you staff up, you can convey that information to them will be huge. Now, let me tell you what I see small business owners where, where we mess up, and I’ve done this too in the businesses that I’ve owned. We say things like, well, I need someone who’s quick on their feet. I need someone who’s a fast learner that doesn’t need me to handhold. And when you hear words like that, they need to be red flags of like, oh, so you’re planning on not training that person, right?
RV (04:35):
Can you come take care of this mess for me while I pay you, pay you under market value, overload you with work? And can you just like, solve all my problems,
AG (04:46):
Sometimes I’ll be asking you to work on operations, and other time I’ll ask you to pick up my car. This is, we all do this, right? Like, we all start there. And, you know, I worked with this real estate investor in Ohio for a couple of years, and he always complained about like the job market. And he’d say stuff about the millennials and the job market and what kind of, you know, what kind of talent are they turning out of the universities? And what I continuously had to remind him, as I said, Eric, and we’ll say your name, Eric. Eric, what kind of training program do you have? How are you training these people? Mm-Hmm. He wasn’t. And yet he was continuously disappointed with what they were providing. So when I say training guys, I don’t mean that you have to sit down and you have to write a dissertation on how to do a job.
AG (05:30):
I mean, it could be you turning on Zoom or you know, Google Meet or something like this. And you walking through a process your organization does while you’re doing a screen share. And that does a couple of things. One, it addresses the people that are audio learners who are listening, but it also addresses the people that are visual learners. They actually are watching you walk through the process. So, I mean, this is a very tactical thing I’m jumping into right away. But for example, if you need to know about how to onboard a client or how to send out an invoice, you turn on Zoom, you do a screen share, and someone’s watching your mouse clicks, someone’s watching. As you talk through the process on Zoom, it’s being recorded. And then afterwards, zoom has this nice, and it doesn’t have to be Zoom guys, but it was a nice little transcribed feature.
AG (06:10):
Transcribe it, go back in, take five minutes, just clean up, make sure that the transcription was accurate. Bam. Now you have an SOP. Now you have a process in your organization for onboarding. And this doesn’t, you don’t require tens of thousands of dollars of software or tools or, or consulting fees. There’s value to that. Yes. But if I’m talking to a small business owner right now, they’re already so busy that when you propose more expenses and when you propose more work, it feels overwhelming. You can literally put something together in a Google drive. Now again, big businesses, they’ve got nicer tools for that. But let’s just talk about the scrapper. That’s the up and coming. Mm-Hmm.
RV (07:14):
Mm-Hmm, yeah, I, that, that is what happens, right? I mean, in so many of these small businesses, the hardest thing is they go, well, I can’t, I don’t have the time to hire someone, so I’ll do it myself. And then they get to expert and they go, okay, I’ll hire someone, but I don’t have the time to train ’em. And then the person leaves and they go, see, I don’t have time to hire them. That never works out. And mm-Hmm,
AG (07:34):
RV (07:35):
I’ll do it myself. And, and it’s just this sort of vicious cycle. And I think a lot of times a lot of times I think small business owners mislead themselves to thinking, oh, a person is the answer. I’m looking for this magical person. And it’s not. The process is the answer, which is good news. Absolute is because the process is more controllable. The process is mm-hmm,
AG (08:15):
You can keep doing iterations and it gets better and better. And, and, you know, the other thing is, we, we jumped in the process thing. And, and, and I’ll be honest with you, where no one wants to hear that they need a process, no small business order. They’re like, oh God, not the process thing. Next thing I’m gonna tell ’em to have a morning routine or journal. I get it. I get it. Everybody’s busy and they don’t wanna hear that, even if it’s good for them. But Rory, I’ll tell you another piece that big businesses do fantastic and small businesses overlook. Oftentimes we get into running our own business because we’re very good at our craft, but we are not very good at selling our craft. And what I see small business learners do over and over again is they love a good product development.
AG (08:51):
They love getting better and better and better at their craft. Mm-Hmm,
AG (09:38):
So get it’s facts and you know, it’s, it’s, it’s facts. And, and that’s, and that’s the thing I see a lot too, is people will go, well, why that person? Why, why is that person, you know, getting the book deal? Why is that person on stage? Why did that person get the big clients? It’s not skillset guys. It’s mindset. It’s confidence. It’s things that you have totally under your control if you just use the tools that help you improve those things. So I have a lot of people that sit in front of me and say, I’m not good at sales. Well, you’re not gonna be good at your craft. You’re not gonna be able to do it for the right people, because there’s someone out there tonight, I want you to imagine that 11 o’clock at night, someone has opened up their laptop and they’re trying to find a solution. They’re googling for answers that are inside your head. And unless you get good at sales, unless you, unless you get a sales plan together or hire someone who’s good at sales, they’re never gonna get that solution. So stop burning the midnight oil, getting better at your craft and get better at sales.
RV (10:34):
Yeah, I think, I think, you know, there’s, there’s something to be said to be for being great at your craft, for sure. Sure. But it, it’s like there’s, there’s so many great artists that are the starving artists and you and Mm-Hmm.
AG (11:31):
And it’s because product development is fun. It’s fun.
RV (11:33):
Product development is fun. Yep. You don’t have the rejection, you don’t have the, the the, the fear. Totally. And like, it is this, it’s creative avoidance to use a term from take the stairs. Yes. It’s, it’s going, it looks like we’re being productive, but we’re really doing it subconsciously as a defense mechanism to avoid the pain that comes from, like, what, what needs to happen. So I wanna stick on this for a second, and then I want to talk about what small businesses should do different from the big businesses, but to stick on this Mm-Hmm.
AG (12:47):
So we constantly iterate so we don’t have to sell, maybe because we really like it to be perfect, maybe because we’re convincing ourselves that we wanna make the most impact in the end user if we make it really, really good. But I have found time and time again that it’s fear. Because if we get to stay in our workshop and tinker on our craft, and it doesn’t matter if it’s a speak if, if it’s a speech, if it’s a book, it doesn’t matter what the, the particular craft is or the product. And when I say product development product, I mean your service, your product, whatever widget you sell or whatever service you sell, when we get to just stay in our workshop and tinker, we get to stay safe. Mm. And we don’t have to get out in the middle of the arena where people are gonna throw things at us, right?
AG (13:30):
I mean, it’s scary to get your product out there. There’s there’s a famous quote. I’m gonna, I’m gonna paraphrase. But essentially if you know that your product is ready to release it, then you’ve waited too long. I’m paraphrasing. But you have to get your product out messy. You have to get it out and iterate. Product development needs to be an iterative process because you have to get feedback from the marketplace, not feedback from your mom or your brother or your wife. You have to get feedback from the end user. Don’t show it to someone that isn’t the end user. I wanna say end user. I mean, if I am writing a book about how to help real estate agents sell, don’t sell, show it to your sister that runs a bakery. Like that’s not your market. And it won’t resonate with her. And besides she loves you and she’s probably gonna tell you good things.
AG (14:16):
So you have to get it out. Like you have to birth that out in the universe and then let someone throw tomatoes at it. And I see that over and over again. I, I work with a client Ben, who’s a remarkable composer. And he, he said it great. He said, I find that I just over complicate it like it’s a Christmas tree and I keep hanging ornaments on over and over and again until it gets so heavy, it just falls over and I start again. And I thought, what a great way to do that. So small businesses continuously focus on making their craft better, making their product better so that they don’t have to be exposed. I mean, this is why I, I go on a tangent here for a second, Roy, but I hate when social media loves people love to put this out on social media about like hustle and silence and then surprise them with their results.
AG (15:00):
And I think that is absolute garbage. I hate that when I see that on Instagram and Facebook, because people should see you iterate. People should see you get out there and like, well, this didn’t work. Well, that’s okay, I’m gonna try again and I’m gonna try again. Like, don’t only come out when everything is polished and perfect. The only person you are protecting in that instance is you, is your ego. But when someone sees you iterate, they see, hey, that’s available. Or someone like me for someone who’s messy or someone that maybe has a learning disability with someone with, with a DHD, someone with young kids. All those reasons that we tell ourselves. ’cause We, we’ve got that negative narrative well rehearsed as to why that success isn’t available to someone like me. When you actually get it out to the marketplace, when you stop living in product development, that’s when you can also inspire people with your journey.
RV (15:50):
Mm-Hmm.
AG (16:39):
Yeah. So I will start by telling you how I did this wrong, Rory. So I’m glad that you asked this question. So, when I came out of the big business world, I had just finished this we’ll say a very, very popular telecom launch. And it was a hundreds of millions of dollars of a launch. And I was very much a part of the strategy and spearheading this and negotiating all the contracts and the deals and flying over all over the world to make this happen. And then I went and built a personal brand five years ago, which is where we met, right? Mm-Hmm.
AG (17:24):
I was used to being the big dog on campus. Well, when you’re a small business, you aren’t, and you have to be aware of your expenses. And so, one thing I would encourage someone is you are not building a hundred million dollar company. You’ve first gotta build a million dollar company before you can build a hundred million dollar company. So when you’re out there looking at the big guys again, let’s say you’re, you are speaker, if you’re out there looking at someone who’s been speaking for 20 years and they’re, you know, wildly successful at what they’re doing, you cannot fully emulate them. Yes. I say, who are you chasing? You, you should be chasing someone. You should be, you know, have an idea of, okay, I wanna be similar to the speaker we were talking about John Maxwell earlier, or Les Brown. You can have an idea of someone that you’re like, okay, this is someone that I’m, I’m, I’m sort of chasing, but understand you’re chasing the version of them that are finely tuned 40 years down the road.
AG (18:13):
If I am trying to scale a large consulting business, I can’t look at a, a consulting business that’s a billion dollar business and say, I wanna be like them because they were first a million dollar business. So I will say, scale appropriately, watch your expenses. You can’t indulge in expenses like the big guys can. But I’ll, I’ll make it even more tactical than that. Rory. I’m going to say that you’ve got to be very particular who you take on as a client. Oh, large businesses, yeah. This is key. This is key. So large businesses can take on a multitude of clients, and they have lots of customer service people and lots of salespeople and lots of account managers and, and engineers and different people to sort of scale according to the customer demographic. Small businesses, we don’t get that. The problem is, when we are a small business, we kind of have this rule, whether we say it or not, they’re like, well, if it ships, it fits.
AG (19:07):
If they pay, they play. Right? And we take on all these clients that aren’t a good fit for our model, which is one of the reasons why I loved your guys’ program about like the avatar work and primary and secondary audience that is so key. Because what I saw with small businesses is that anybody who could write a check, they would say yes to. Mm-Hmm.
AG (19:47):
We’ve all had those clients. Like we’ve had the client that just made us not love our craft anymore. Big businesses can afford that. Big businesses have the, the latitude to take on different client demographics. If I’m talking to a small business owner right now, like whoever’s listening right now, if you’re running, and, and I’ll say I usually define small businesses under 50 million, but probably for, for who we’re talking to, I’m saying between, you know, 1,000,020 5 million, who you choose to have as clients is everything. Because that will make you and your team love your work or hate your work. And I’ll give you a little, I’ll give you a little insider tip. This is an exercise I do as a business advisor. Your highest maintenance clients will almost always be your lowest profit clients. But they won’t appear like that at f at first. So that same 750, you know, K revenue c client might get a 250 K contract and they go, this is the mo the biggest contract we’ve ever had as a business.
AG (20:46):
This is amazing. This is amazing. But if it’s not the right fit, it will end up costing you in the long run. They might be high maintenance, they might not be a good fit. You might have to add on extra bells and whistles just to meet their demands or meet their needs because they weren’t quite a fit. But you really needed the money. And I, I’ll tell you, I’ve seen so many small business owners grow to dislike what they do. And it wasn’t because they, they don’t like doing it anymore. It’s who they, who they’re doing it with. A lot of times when I talk to small business owners, when they say that they’ve lost that love and feeling like, oh, I just don’t enjoy it as much. I always say, talk to me about your client demographics. Who are you working with? How has that changed through the years?
AG (21:26):
And sometimes it’s, well, I got part of this organization and they were sending me leads and so I just took them. And they aren’t realizing that they’re not loving it anymore ’cause they’re working with the right, wrong kind of clients. So small business owners be very clear, not who you can serve because you are a creative person, you’re a resourceful person, you can help lots of people, but I want you to be very specific on who you should serve, not who you can, you can serve lots of people, but who should I serve? Who am I passionate about serving? But also will light me up too. Because again, you’re resourceful. You can help lots of people, but you help the wrong person and you won’t love your business anymore.
RV (22:03):
Mm-Hmm.
AG (22:43):
Yeah.
RV (22:43):
So, you know, that kind of fits with alignment and goals and something in general you talk about. So mm-hmm.
AG (23:04):
Absolutely. So smart goals is sort of, well, the gold standard, right? Like they it, and, and there is, there is validity to that. I, I operated off of smart goals for years, but there is a piece that’s missing in the smart growth format that I found has really handicapped a lot of people’s success. Part of what I do, much of what I do, I, I said that people come for skillset, but they stay for mindset. Part of the mindset piece is just getting people out of their own way and making sure they’re truly leveraging all the tools that they have around them, even the ones that they’re overlooking. So I use a framework called the anatomy of goals. And in the anatomy of goals, it’s around identifying the what. That’s, that’s key. But usually when people are setting goals, they move right into the how.
AG (23:45):
The second they say the what, it doesn’t matter what the goal is. It could be, I wanna hit seven figures this year. It can be I wanna run a marathon or write a book. The goal doesn’t matter. And, and that’s a piece that’s important too. Goals are just project management with a bunch of emotions baked in. People try to make goals into this big thing. It’s just project management. It’s, it’s figuring out the what and then chipping away at it a little bit at the time and figuring out a way to keep yourself focused on it until you hit that. But the piece that’s missing with smart goals is the who, like who can help you get ahead. And so what I created in the anatomy of goals is, is it’s a three part. You establish the what, which is very important. Okay? I want a seven figure revenue, for example.
AG (24:25):
Great. We’ve got the what now, resist the temptation to move right into the how, which is where our brain immediately goes. If I say, okay, I’m gonna hit seven figures immediately, it’s like, well, the market’s downturn with the political climate, dah, I’ve got all the reasons why I’ve, I’ve practiced this narrative many times of all the reasons why that’s not feasible, or if it’s I’m gonna run a marathon. Yeah, but you know, my kids are still kind of young and would drop off and now we’re sending so and so to soccer practice. There’s all these reasons why that’s not possible. ’cause We moved into the how, forget the how go from what. And then you immediately go into the who. I break the who into three parts. So regardless of the goal, I want you to be looking for three different parts. The first one is the mentor, which makes sense.
AG (25:06):
Like, who’s done this thing that I’m about to do? I wanna hit seven figures. Who do I know who’s hit seven figures? I want to write a bestselling book. Who do I know who’s written a bestselling book? That’s the mentor, the person who has gone ahead of you. The next is the networker who has the network to support this goal that I want. Sometimes the mentor and the network are the same person. You know, if I want to climb Everest and I have this friend Allison who’s climbed Everest, okay, great. She could be the mentor. Does she have the network? Now here’s how that’s different. Does she know the Sherpas I should use? Does she know the pilot that can fly me in? So who’s got the network, the connections that can help me get to my goal quicker? Here’s the third piece, the buddy.
AG (25:46):
And that is simply the accountability buddy. So again, I want to hit seven figures, so I’ve gotta sell a bunch or I want to climb ever. It doesn’t matter what the goal is. You should have an accountability buddy in there for your goals. The buddy doesn’t need to know anything about your goal. They could never have written a book in their life. But just by virtue of the fact that they text you every morning and ask what your word count was, I mean, I’ve done this before. I have a cousin that knew nothing about the goal that I was doing. She’d understand the intricacies, but I said, here’s the exact words you need to say to me. This was years ago. I said, this is the exact words you need to say to me. You can even set this up that it automatically gets text to me.
AG (26:22):
But by me just knowing I was gonna get that text from my cousin, I tended to perform. So when you’re looking at your goals, a lot of people will go, okay, I’m gonna research this. I’m, I’m gonna run my first marathon. So they’ll research a ton out of how to run a marathon. But if you simply hang out with a bunch of people that have run marathons before, it’s gonna shorten your path to success. If you talk to someone, how did they do it? Who do they know? Do they know? Any races come up? And so when you’re looking at your goals, guys,
RV (26:49):
It’s funny that you talk about this. ’cause I’m literally in Bible study with a bunch of marathon runners, Uhhuh. And I’m actively gonna end up running, trying to repel the idea. It’s not gonna work that I get, that I get recruited into running this. ’cause It’s like, it’s not gonna work. It’s so organically there’s such an organic draw to like, come do this. And I’m like, no. The answer is no. Resistance
AG (27:08):
Is futile. I Rory
RV (27:09):
Given
AG (27:12):
We’re gonna talk to Rory again in six months and he’s gonna tell us how many miles a week he’s doing It just, just, you can’t, you can’t, you gotta give in if, I mean, if you what was it Steve Harvey says, if nine of your friends are broke, you’ll be the 10th. I love that saying, but the truth is, the opposite is true as well. If nine of your friends are rich, you’re likely to be the 10th. Totally. I I, I worked with a guy who was part of a, a I’ll say a men’s group that was amazing. This was a few years back. And he ended up dropping out and I said, man, I thought you really liked that group. And he said, yeah, but he’s like, they were all really, really wealthy and it kind of made me uncomfortable, like their conversation, I didn’t feel like I belonged at that table.
AG (27:46):
And I said, and by you dropping out, you will never belong at that table. Hmm. If you can just withstand the discomfort that you, yourself feel, nobody else needs to feel it. But if you can just withstand the discomfort that you feel because you, you feel that they’re operating at a higher level, you’ll reach their level. This is the power of a network. This is the power of a social circle. Our mamas we’re right. Like we are who the, you know, the people we surround ourselves with, which is why Rory Vaden will become a runner.
RV (28:13):
No, you heard it here first. Not become a, I’ll change Bible studies before that happens.
AG (28:28):
Absolutely. So the best place is the april garcia.com. I’m the April Garcia on all the platforms as well. And I got a lot of free tools and free resources as well as the the Pivot Me podcast, the April Garcia Pivot Me podcast. I love what I do, I love who I do it with. And I’m happy to answer any questions about what we talked about here or any other topics on the podcast.
RV (28:48):
So cool, friend, well, we’re cheering you on. We’re, we’re so grateful for you and just believe in you more and more friend. I, I know the be the best is ahead for you. So thanks for making time for us and, and keep crushing it.
AG (29:00):
Absolutely. This was amazing. Well done. Thank you so much for having me on Rory.
Ep 473: How to Know When You Are Ready to Launch | Melanie Ann Layer Episode Recap
AJV (00:02):
So the question of today is this. How do you know when you’re ready to launch? And here’s the answer, you know you’re ready to launch when you know that your product or service has the ability to help someone else, the end. You see, so often in life and in business, we complicate things because we think they should be more complicated. We think it should mean more and be more complex and have more steps. And the truth is
AJV (00:54):
And at some point it makes sense, but you don’t need it to launch. You don’t need funnels or webinars or a podcast or a big email list. You can have those things and at some point I encourage you that you should, but you don’t need it to launch you. See, you also, you don’t need lots of social media followers or fancy graphics or brand guidelines or fonts and email marketing. You can have those things and one day you should, but you do not have to have them to launch. The only thing that you need to launch is a product or a service that has the ability to help someone else. The end
AJV (01:49):
It is your obligation. It’s your responsibility to launch because you know that someone is out there who needs what you have, they need you and the way that only you can do it and the way that only you can serve them because you’re you and all those other things come with a price and with time and energy and resources and there’s a time and a place for everything. All I’m saying is that those aren’t requirements to launch. They are supplemental, they are ancillary. And at some point they do feel like in order to scale to grow, they become more necessary. They’re just not necessary or essential to launch. The only thing that you need to launch is knowing and believing that your product has the ability to get someone else results in whatever it is that you do. Now, that believing part is really critical.
AJV (02:42):
‘Cause That means you believe it. You believe it enough to talk about it. You believe it enough to tell people about it. You believe it enough to have sales calls and ask for their business. You believe it enough to go speak on stages. And those are stages of one 100 or 1000. It’s to go to the networking meetings. It’s to show up and go, I know this can help you. And that comes with that inner conviction that you know, you can get someone else results ’cause you’ve done it before. You’ve done it for yourself, you’ve done it for someone else, and you know how to help somebody else experience those level those levels of results. That is what is required to launch. If you know that you can help people, then you are ready right now today. Even if you don’t have a way to collect money, even if you don’t have a way to process it, even if you don’t have a fancy course or PDFs, if you know you can help someone, then you are ready right now.
AJV (03:42):
Now that’s not to disvalue or undervalue. The importance of all those other things, systems and processes and technology and having ways to collect money are important. So don’t hear what I’m not saying. What I am saying is that you’re ready today. You don’t need to be perfect. It never will be perfect. And you don’t need fancy websites and lots of followers. All you need is knowing that you have the ability to help someone else. And when you know that you are ready. And you see, here’s the thing. I actually heard this quote and on a conversation I had on the influential personal brand podcast just a couple of weeks ago with Melanie Laer. And I loved what she said and she said, and I don’t know if she came up with this or she heard it somewhere else, but man, it has stuck with me.
AJV (04:27):
And she said, here’s the thing, is you’re gonna wonder how to do it until you wonder how you did it. And that is the beauty of moving forward in conviction and in belief of just knowing like, I don’t have to have all of that stuff. No, you can, but it’s not necessary in order to launch. And sometimes you’re gonna wonder like, how is this ever gonna work? How am I going to do this? Until one day you wake up and you’re like, how did this ever work? How did this happen? Like, how am I here? Like how is it that I am looking at the answered prayers and the hopes and dreams and the goals that were of my past and I’m living them today? ’cause You will ask the question, I wonder how it’s gonna happen. I wonder how I’m gonna figure this out.
AJV (05:09):
I wonder how I’m gonna do it until one day it just changes to I wonder how I did it. I wonder how this all happened. And it’s because you move forward in faith, you move forward in action. You don’t procrastinate, you don’t wait because you know that you are ready. When you know you have the ability to help someone else and you’re not afraid to talk about it, you’re not embarrassed to talk about it. Now, I’m not saying to be prideful and ego ridden and talk about everywhere you go that and be self-promotional. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is though you have a deep unwavering conviction that what you do helps other people and you have proof. And when you feel that you are ready, let’s go. That’s how you know you’re ready. So when
AJV (05:56):
Are you ready to launch? You know you’re ready to launch when you know that your products and service can help other people. So are you ready?