Ep 347: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 2
RV (00:00):
But I do wanna share with you the two things for how I stopped, how I actually stopped drinking. And the first one is really important. It was, it’s to rewrite your programming. Rewrite your programming. And there’s an entire chapter on this. Take the stairs. It’s called the Creation Principle of Integrity. And it talks about how our words are, what are the, the first step in creating our lives? Like your, the human brain is a computer. It is a program your brain is happy to do. Whatever you tell it to do. It will. And, and so here’s what’s important. Don’t try to convince yourself to artificially not do something that you really do wanna do. Instead, realize that you naturally won’t do the things you don’t wanna do. So don’t try to convince yourself not to do something you do wanna do.
RV (01:01):
Realize that you naturally won’t do something you don’t wanna do. So here’s what I mean. If you, if you tell yourself, I love alcohol, alcohol makes me relax, alcohol makes me happy, alcohol makes me comfortable. I need alcohol. Cause I had a hard day. If you tell yourself those things, they will be true for you. So when you, when that is your base programming, and then you try to change your behavior on top of that, it’s in conflict. Cuz you’re going, oh, I can’t drink for 30 days cuz I’m on this thing. Or, you know, I made a resolution. I’m not gonna drink for a little bit. The the issue there is your, your mindset. The is, is the behavior doesn’t align with the programming. Underneath you’re saying, I like alcohol, I want alcohol. That’s what the program is. And then you’re trying to create behavior that is in, in conflict with that saying, but I don’t wanna drink or I’m not gonna drink.
RV (01:54):
So you’re denying yourself something. The actual way to change your behavior is to change the root programming. Because if you convince yourself, I don’t like alcohol, I don’t want to drink, then it’s much easier to have the behavior fall in line because you’re not going against the programming of your brain. So this sounds incredibly simple and it is simple. It’s not easy, but it’s credible, incredibly simple. If you wanna stop any habit in your life or change any habit in your life, or stop any negative thing, you have to attack the underlying programming. How do you do that? Simple. It’s what you tell yourself over and over and over again. All you believe, you listen. Your brain does not believe what is true. Your brain believes whatever you tell it most often, whatever you tell it most often is what becomes true. I guarantee it.
RV (02:48):
And so I wanna read for you, I’m just gonna read for you my, you know, I call these my alcohol affirmations, which they’re really my non-alcohol affirmations. I just wanna, I’m just gonna read them to you because this is what I read to myself like every day for the first few weeks. And after a couple weeks, I didn’t have to read it anymore. My desire for alcohol disappeared. Right? So here it is. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work. Alcohol makes me less likely to achieve my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol weakens my decision. Making alcohol makes me more vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the, the chance of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I will eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp and active the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the, and the Lord.
RV (04:35):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to drink alcohol in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or none at all not drinking alcohol. Lengthens the length, lengthens the term of my effectiveness and my success. Alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And so
RV (05:14):
If you will just
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Say those things over and over again, I mean, that’s what I did. It changes the programming. It replaces your programming in your head, and it, it changes everything because now you’re building new behaviors on, you’re on a new foundation, and they’re not working against
RV (05:32):
Each other.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They’re working with each other. They’re working alongside each other. And, right, like the more I said those things, those that affirmations list that
RV (05:42):
I just shared with you, the more I believed it to
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Be true. And the more I
RV (05:45):
Felt like it really was true,
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And the more
RV (05:49):
That I felt it really was true, the less desire I actually had to ever do it. And so I wasn’t like, I know where I am now. It’s, it’s weird to fast forward ahead six years and go you know, who I was back then and was like, man, I looked forward. Like I looked forward to drinking. It was like the thing I was looking forward to at the end of the week, or even at the end of a day, like, gosh, I can’t wait to just like go home and have a drink. And now it’s like, I don’t want it. I’m not drawn to it. The desire is not there because the programming has changed. And so, you know, that’s what I want you to really like, think about with whatever change it is that you wanna make in your life. And you know, replacing your programming.
RV (06:36):
So, you know, first, first of all, you gotta, you gotta redefine your identity. Then you gotta rewrite your programming. And then the last thing is is you gotta replace your choices. And there’s, there’s two key choices that I’ve made on this journey, at least for me, that were, were really pivotal and they both have to do with replacements. And so the first one was just literally replacing what I was holding in my hand and giving myself more options. Because the, that’s the, the hard part is going, oh, well, when I’m out at dinner, I’m used to holding wine and or, you know, like, I come home at the end of the day and it’s like, oh, I, you know, I, I wanna, I wanna have a drink of some type. And so, you know, what I’m grabbing for is important to sort of have that replacement.
RV (07:27):
So here’s some simple replacements that made a big difference for me. So instead of drinking beer, drink Topo Chico specifically was what I would do because it was a glass bottle and I would pop it, it makes the same, you know, it’d make the, the same sound as popping open a bottle of beer and then you know, drinking that or sparkling water, right? So sparkling water was a, was a in instead of wine drink sparkling water. So instead of beer drink, Topo Chico is a glass bottle. Instead of wine, what I do is I drink sparkling water and then I will either add or sparkling apple juice or sparkling grape juice. And that is like what, what I would have like even now when I’ll go out to dinner, like what I’ll order, oftentimes I’ll order sparkling water with a splash of cranberry juice.
RV (08:23):
And so it’s super healthy. Often it’s free. I mean, you know, like, or it’s, it’s nowhere near the cost of a, of a cocktail. Now, if I really want a cocktail, what I will do is I’ll order a mock. And so almost every bartender loves making mocktails cuz they don’t get asked for it that often. And you say like, Hey, make me something fancy or whatever. So if I’m at let’s say we’re in Mexico by the pool or something, you know, and it’s like, I really wanna have a something, you know, like I’ll go, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll have a, have a have a fancy, a fancy mocktail. And that’s just a simple, a simple replacement. So instead of beer, I had Topo Chico. Instead of like wine, I’d have sparkling grape juice. And instead of a cocktail, I would get sparkling water with like a splash of cranberry or just, or just a mocktail.
RV (09:11):
So those are easy choices, but the, the more, the more difficult choice and frankly the more powerful choice. And the more important choice was that for me in my life, there were two people specifically that I identified that I needed to replace. Not so much like replace the people I needed to replace the time I was spending with these two individuals. And so when I looked back on, you know, the regrets that I had and me being drunk, and then I looked and said, well, gosh, there’s this very common thread that there’s these two specific people in my life that when I’m around them, I am drunk. It’s like sort of what we do. And it’s, it became the modality and the way of operating. And so, you know, rather than trying to change what they’re doing or change their behavior, I just basically said I have to replace myself out of that circumstance.
RV (10:09):
And most of the time in life, I’m a big believer, like I’m a big believer that usually you don’t need to change your circumstance, you need to change your attitude. Like usually that is, is what my default is. And what, even when I coach people and coach myself, like usually it’s not the circumstance that it’s is the problem. It’s your attitude. That’s the problem. And so you need to change your, you need to change your attitude, not your circumstance. But in this case, and whenever you’re trying to change like a physical behavior, it’s really important to change your physical surroundings. When you’re trying to change a physical behavior. It’s important to change the physical surroundings. Same thing, right? Like when you, when you’re trying to lose weight, I’ve been on that journey as well. It’s like I can’t have chips and cookies and bread and crackers and pretzels and everything just like a right there at my disposal to grab, because otherwise I’ll grab them, right?
RV (11:04):
So I have to change the environment. It’s sort of the same, same thing here, which is really tough. These were two people in my life that it was like we got together and we got drunk. And I can’t do that anymore, right? When I’m, when I’m making a change. And so what goal do you have in your life? What thing do you aspire to? Who are you looking to become? And it might be that you need to replace yourself out of a situation and you need to put yourself in another situation. You gotta change your environment. You gotta change your circumstance. Like literally change your environment. And so that was, that was a big, that was a big thing for me. And so that is how I have done it, right? And it, it hasn’t been very hard actually. Like the first few weeks were hard, but the, you know, you redefine your identity and you figure out, okay, why does this matter to me?
RV (11:56):
Not somebody else telling me I should, but, but why do I care? I listed my seven reasons of, of what, why it mattered to me personally. You only need one, right? You just, but you need one good one that matters to you. And you gotta be doing it for you. Like, if you’re making changes in your life because of someone else or cuz you think you’re supposed to, it’s not gonna be sustainable because you’re, it’s, you’re not changing your identity. You change your identity by changing your purpose and changing your why and deciding, I’ve got a reason to become a different person and that’s my reason, not yours. Not someone else’s, not some rule or some, you know, principle that I think I’m, I’m supposed to uphold or do. But it’s like a genuine, like, I’m rewriting, I’m redefining my identity. Then I gotta rewrite my programming, which to me is, is the most practical part of this.
RV (12:51):
And it’s reading those affirmations. And it might mean that you have to play this back you know, play this recording back and just listen to them. In fact, what I’m gonna do at the end is I’m gonna say ’em again so that they’re, you can, if you just need to like fast forward and you just wanna play these, I I’m, I’m gonna read ’em again. And, and then the third thing is that you have to replace your choices. You gotta replace your choices and give yourself art alternatives be in different circumstances, environments. And I I do have one last thing I wanna share with you too. But before I do that, let me go ahead and read, read these affirmations for you one more time. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work.
RV (13:39):
Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to compete towards achieving my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol, alcohol weakens my decision making alcohol makes me vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the risk of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I’ll eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement account. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me more to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the Lord.
RV (14:58):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to have a drink in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or not at all alcohol, lengthens the time of my necessary working career to pay off all that it has caused me. And alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me that I care about. Here’s what I want you to know. Today is the hardest it will ever be. Today is the hardest it will ever be. It is the hardest right now. The more that you play those affirmations back, you listen to ’em, you recite them, you repeat them, the more your programming will change. And it may be hard to imagine now, but I’m telling you, it is possible that you will wake up one day.
RV (16:03):
And what once was something that all you wanted, all you could think about later in the future, is something you don’t even notice. You don’t want it, you’re not attracted to it. The key is to rewrite that underlying programming. Not to try to lie to yourself and say, oh, I, I, you know, not to deny yourself something that really deep down you’re saying you want and just temporarily disallowing it from yourself, but getting under the root and, and, and rewriting a program that says there’s a different program here and I’m gonna rewrite it because I want to be a different person. Not for anybody else, not for any other reason necessarily, but you’re making the decision that you wanna do it because something that’s important to you. Now, there might be someone else in your life that matters, but it’s, it’s not that that person’s telling you to do it, it’s that you are choosing to do it because that person matters to you.
RV (16:57):
But this is the hardest that it’ll ever be. And I, I I promise you that if you do these things and you think this way and you work in this direction, it will get easier and easier. So I’m not sure who this was for, but I felt called to put it out there. So whether this is for you or a loved one, someone, please feel free to share it and please don’t feel judged. This isn’t about judgment. This isn’t about right and wrong and good and bad. This is just about my journey. Overcoming something that I decided wasn’t the right healthy thing for me and how I did that in case you or someone you know, wants to make that same decision. Thanks for tuning it in.
Ep 346: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 1
RV (00:08):
All right, podcast friend. We have a special interruption, I guess a deviation from the norm, an extreme circumstance and an unusual broadcast situation here. I recently recorded a video on how I stopped drinking. And it was three strategies for how I stopped drinking. And I don’t know why exactly, I don’t know who this is for, but I have felt called to share my personal story about how I stopped drinking six years ago and specific, you know, specifically how, like what I did, why I made that change, but also how I, I was able to do that, which was important for me. So this has nothing to do with personal branding, really. This has nothing to do. This is not at all the normal format of our podcast. For me to share something like this is very, very un unusual.
RV (01:10):
This is a tremendously personal I guess you would say vulnerable unexpected thing for me to be sharing. But I follow the promptings that I feel led to, and for some reason I feel led to this one. So, if you’re, this is the first time you’ve ever listened to this show you’re welcome to listen to this, to this, to this episode. And we may break it into a couple parts cuz it was a little, a little bit long. But, you know, this is not what we normally cover here on this show. Normally we’re, we’re, we’re talking to people about how to, you know, expand their reach, become more well known, make a bigger impact, make, make more income, and grow their influence in the world. And, and I guess, you know, there is a little bit of a tie, which is if, if you know, one of the things that I believe deeply is that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character.
RV (02:05):
Before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And this story that I’m gonna share about how I stopped drinking six years ago and why, and how it all went and how it all happened, and then specifically the, the strategies that I, I used through that own sort of personal development are are related to my character. Okay? I’m not saying that you, if you, you don’t like, if you drink, you have your person of weak character at all. Not whatsoever at all. Aj, my wife, my bus, our business partner, my business partner, our ceo, you know, she, she, she drinks to this day. But it is, for me, this was an important journey about that I felt I needed to go on to, to strengthen and fortify my personal character. And so that’s why we decided to share it with you is, is not so much about going, Hey, we think you need to, to learn how to stop drinking.
RV (02:59):
You may not drink at all. Or maybe you do and it’s, you know, not a big deal or like, you know, maybe you do a lot and it, it’s not affecting like, you know, whatever, like, whatever your attitude is. It’s, this is not about saying, Hey, you should stop doing this. This is my story about how I created a, a, a significant behavior change in my life and, and, and created new habits and, and new behaviors that is tied, at least was for me, tied to my personal character and is also tied to taking action and creating change and, and making, at least in my case, you know, what I felt was the move to make myself a stronger person. And so, you know, maybe this is relevant to you, like hyper relevant. Maybe it’s relevant for someone, you know, but I think what makes it relevant to all of us, and and, and to you at, at least on some level is, is twofold.
RV (03:48):
One, it is realizing this connection that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And that’s really, really important because your, your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. Your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. That’s something that my pastor shared with me a couple years ago, and I found that to be really true. But for all of us, we’re always trying to make changes. We’re trying to create some behavior change, some pattern change to get ourselves or our business to the next level. And so I think listening to the psychology of what, how I’m creating that change and I’m, I’m leaning on the psychology that you know, I’ve spent a lot of my life developing, which is the psychology of helping people take action and, and build discipline and do things they don’t wanna do.
RV (04:38):
And, and that’s something I’ve, you know, spent a career studying. So, you know, listen to it more from that angle. Like, if, if you’re not someone who struggles with alcohol in whatever way, I’d listen to it, listen to it from that angle, or just, you might just skip past this episode. If you don’t want to get all, all up close and, and personal with me. So again, I, this is a, this is a break from the norm. Just wanted to give you a heads up and a warning. Just fair warning that this is not our standard programming and it’s not a permanent change in our programming. Like we’re, we, we’re, we’re continuing on with our normal format, but not that I wanted to share with you and at least give you a little bit of a look into this part of my life, which was a, which was a powerful and, and important journey. So anyways, I hope you, I hope you enjoy.
RV (05:23):
So about six years ago I stopped drinking alcohol, and I’m gonna tell you a little bit about why I did that, but specifically I wanna share with you three strategies for how I did that. Now, I wanna let you know up front, I’m not against drinking. I don’t believe that it means you’re bad or immoral or any of those things. If you do it, I did it for a long time. I honestly don’t know why I’m sharing this with you, but I feel called to share some of this story with you. You and so I just, I wanna make sure you know up front that I if you drink, this isn’t a slam against you or meant, you know, or anybody aj. Aj my wife drinks and she still drinks. And you know, I have friends, friends that do, so it’s not about that.
RV (06:15):
But I just wanna share three reasons, or not three reasons. I gonna three, three strategies for how I stopped drinking about six years ago. So let’s dive in. Here they are, I’m gonna give ’em to you right up front. So first of all, the, the, the very first strategy is to redefine your identity. Redefine your identity, which is all about figuring out why. And so I’m gonna talk through seven reasons why I stopped drinking and how that sort of came about. Then the second strategy is to rewrite your own programming. And we’ll get into the details of that. I’m gonna share with you an affirmations list that I use, which is really a huge part of what changed my life. And then the third thing is to replace your choices. And there’s two specific types of choices that I replaced in my life that made have made a huge difference.
RV (07:12):
And I’ll share with you what both of those are. So first of all, let’s talk about replacing your identity. And to me, this is really key because if you wanna make any change in your life, you have to start thinking of yourself as a different person, because that’s literally what change means. Change means I’m becoming a different person. I’m, I’m on my way to being someone that is different than I am, or especially than I have been. And in order to do that, it’s going to be, it’s gonna require work, it’s gonna require effort, it’s gonna require intention and discipline, which means it’s gonna be difficult and probably, or at least uncomfortable or, you know, unfamiliar at the least. And so you really need to know why you’re doing what you wanna be doing. Like, I, I think, I think here’s a, here’s what I think is not a great reason to stop being drinking to stop drinking is cuz it’s like, oh, other people think I should stop drinking.
RV (08:15):
I, I actually don’t think that’s a great, the greatest reason why you should. I, I think any change that you make in your life has to be one and should be one that you are making, that you are choosing it. And so you are the one taking agency of your own life. And it’s not cuz you think you’re supposed to or cuz someone said that, you know, somebody threatened you with something, this or that. It’s because whatever has happened, you’ve come to a place where you’ve said, I wanna make this type of change in my life. I wanna make some type of change. And so really this applies to all types of changes. And so I think in order to do that work, in order to take the stairs to, to steal the, the title and metaphor of my first book you, it’s gonna be a journey.
RV (09:01):
And so you need to really understand why you’re doing it. And so I’m gonna share with you these are seven reasons why I decided to stop drinking. So and this happened about six years ago. The last time I had alcohol was the night that AJ told me we were pregnant with my son Jasper, with our oldest son Jasper. So at the time of this recording, that was, you know, six over six years ago, which is crazy that it’s been that long. And, and you also should know that like I drank a lot before that. Was I an alcoholic? I don’t know, I guess depends on what the definition of an alcoholic was. I never went in treatment. I didn’t miss work. You know, maybe if I was, I was, I guess what someone maybe call a high functioning alcoholic, but I once heard the definition that an alcoholic is someone who simply drinks to get drunk.
RV (09:56):
They drink for the purpose of getting drunk. By that definition, I was an alcoholic because that was the only reason I was drinking was to get drunk. It wasn’t like, oh, I like the taste of this more than any number of other things I could drink and that’s why I’m doing it. Or like, I, I’m not, I was never interested in like the making of alcohol or, you know, how it happened or like the hobby of, of of, of how it was crafted, right? Like it was, no, I’m drinking for the purpose of feeling a certain way or escaping a feeling that I was feeling. So, you know, I guess by that definition maybe I was, but I personally, you know, was never, I guess had a place where you might say I was outta control where it was affecting my, you know, my, I don’t know, I don’t know what the measure of that that would be.
RV (10:46):
So, but by some definitions I was. But you know, obviously if, if this is something you’re struggling with or a loved one is struggling with, you should consult with, you know, a mental health professional. And I never was really at that point. So again, I just share in my story here. I’m not sure who needs to hear this, but so here’s seven reasons why I stopped. Okay? So first of all, regret reduction. Regret reduction. You know, as I, as I thought about this whole journey and, and you know, I should say that the catalyst for this was solidarity with aj, right? The ca the catalyst for me stopping wasn’t, it was these seven reasons, but it wasn’t like something massive happened in my, well, I guess finding out you’re gonna be a dad is pretty massive, but like, I didn’t have this, you know, blow up or, you know, hit rock bottom kind of moment.
RV (11:35):
It was just like, you know, she said I was gonna be a dad and she wasn’t gonna drink for nine months. And so I said, all right, I’m just gonna stop drinking with, with you. And then I just never picked it back up. And at first it was really hard, like the first couple weeks were really hard and the first couple months were hard and then it got easier. And that’s something I think you should know, or if, if somebody, you know is, is struggling with an addiction of some type I’m certainly not an expert on addiction, but I have spent a life studying the psychology of, of self-discipline and overcoming procrastination and moving people to action and overcoming inaction. And so what I know from that work as well as my own life is it’s the har today is the hardest it’s ever gonna be.
RV (12:26):
Like, the day that you set out on the change is it’s that that’s the hardest, but it becomes easier o o over over time. So you should know that. But for me, when I was looking back, a hundred percent of the regrets that I had ever had in my life were from when I was drunk. Like, I actually realized that, that as I thought back over the course of my life and I was thinking about, you know, all the, all the, the poor decisions that I had made, all the stupid things that I have said, most of the really dumb things that I had had done, probably all of the dumbest things that I had done. Like, I literally as I, I didn’t have a ton of regrets in my life, but I, I had some big ones. And in all of them, every single regret I had in my life was from, from when I was drunk.
RV (13:21):
And so I thought, well, gosh, if I don’t want regrets, maybe if I could stop doing this, you know, if I stop drinking, maybe I’ll have fewer regrets in my life. And, and it’s just a, it’s just a, a reduction of the chance, right? So it’s like the chance of me ever getting a DUI goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking the, the chance of me ever engaging in sexual immorality or, you know, breaking trust with my wife or having an affair or something, it goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking or I’m not drunk it, it’s not impossible, right? But the likelihood I’m, I’m playing the odds, and this is how I structure my whole life. This is how I structure business is, is, you know, the strategies, the techniques we teach to help people make money, it’s all about, like, nothing is guaranteed, but there’s these principles of success and these principles that are true. And you go, man, if you adopt these into your life, you’re just sort of like playing the odds. And so I thought, man, I’m certainly going to improve the odds in my favor of of, of not having, of having through regrets in my life if I stop drinking. The second thing honestly was mental health. And, and here’s what I mean specifically.
RV (14:33):
I’ll never forget one time I actually said these words out loud. Like, I, these, these words came outta my mouth and there was something about the way I said it that really locked me up and it captured me and it, and it caught my, it like caught my attention. It was like a slap across the face. Like I, it made me go, whoa. And here’s what, here’s what I said to someone. I don’t even remember the scenario. All I remember is what I said. I said, you know, I just have more fun when I’m drunk.
RV (15:10):
And bam, just like that, like when there was just something where I said, when I said, I just have more fun when I’m drunk. That hit me so hard because I realized, wow, the, the however I have structured my life, like whatever choices I’ve made, whoever I’m around, whatever I’m doing, whatever, you know, goals, I’m pursuing business, I’m involved with, like whatever my physical health is, wherever I am at the, like, I have the most fun when I’m drunk. That felt like a risky orientation of my life. It felt like a risky orientation of my happiness. It felt like a risky orientation of, of my mental health to go, I have to be drunk in order to be experiencing my highest level of happiness. And it was a very sobering moment because I realized that’s not how I wanna live. I wanna be able to be happy without this.
RV (16:16):
I wanna be able to be happy every moment of every day with, with without any substances like that. I want my own attitude and my own mindset to be in charge of my own health and happiness. I don’t want dependency on something else for my, for, for my happiness other than, you know, I’m a I’m a I’m a Christian, so, you know, my relationship with God is super important, but like outside of that, my own happiness, I want to be independent of things that are happening around me. I don’t want my circumstances to dictate my happiness. I certainly don’t want substances to dictate my happiness and what I realized for myself, right? I can’t say this for everybody. All I’m all I’m talking about today. I said just Sharon with you, my own journey here, which was sort of an accidental journey a little bit like, you know, just an unexpected journey is, is is that I realized that I diluted my bodys own ability to deal with stress and pain and heartbreak and struggle because I was medicating with alcohol.
RV (17:26):
So I, you know, there are ways that you process stress and grief and, and heartbreak and setbacks and rejection and life. Like, life is difficult. Like for everybody. Life is so, life is hard, man, like, so difficult. And, and what I realized was, oh, somehow along the way, and just you, I, it wasn’t like I was crazy into, into doing bad stuff all the time. I just started drinking, you know, a little bit in high school and then more in college, and then a lot more later in college. And then, you know, I had some money and it was more, and then I was a young professional. I was traveling all over, I was flying first class and, you know, I was speaking and stuff and, and it was just like, it was just always available. And so it was just happening a lot. But I, at some point I had developed accidentally a dependency on this substance to help me resolve stress, to help me deal with rejection, to help me deal with frustration.
RV (18:34):
And so this substance was the thing that I was using for that. And so I was disallowing my body’s natural ability and from forcing itself to deal with those things in a healthy way. And so I was doing this unhealthy thing. And so I was like, man, I want non dependency. I want to be in charge of my own happiness. I want my attitude to dictate how I feel. I, I wanna be in charge. I don’t wanna be dependent on something else, regardless of whether what the something is. I don’t want something else to be responsible for my happiness. I want to be responsible for my happiness. So that was the second reason was mental health. The third reason was actually very practical. It was financial savings,
RV (19:33):
And so they were tracking stuff and they had this line that was like, alcohol and it was thousands of dollars. And if you would’ve told me at the start of the year, oh, you know, Rory is someone who spends thousands of dollars on alcohol, I’d been like, no way. You’re crazy. Like, I have drinks here and there. And then looking at it added up and black and white, it was like, holy moly, I spend thousands of dollars on this. Thousands of dollars, right? Cuz you know, a drink might be, I don’t know, eight bucks, 10 bucks, 12 bucks. If you’re in Vegas, it’s 25 bucks. Like, and you go, ah, you know, a bottle of wine here and there is 20 bucks, 30 bucks. Like you know, you have martinis, you go out on the lake, you do the birthday parties and, and, and, you know, well, couple glasses of wine with dinner.
RV (20:21):
And again, I’m not judging anybody, I’m just sharing my story of going, for me, it added up. And specifically, it wasn’t just thousands of dollars, it was the opportunity cost of going, what if I would’ve spent those thousands of dollars instead of spending on alcohol? What if I would’ve invested that into my own education, into my own personal development? Like, if I would’ve used that money to go to conferences or travel the world or, or even waste and like blow on silly, you know, stuff like I, you know, whatever shirts and, and and, and, and clothes and like, you know, trips or, or TVs or whatever. Like, and then specifically was like, what if I would’ve invested that money? You know? Like if I would’ve taken a few thousand bucks every year from the time, let’s say from the time I was like 20 to 25, if I would take, say it was 2000 bucks every year from age 20 to 25 and invested that, and I would’ve had like that 10 grand invested, it would grow to be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time I was retirement age, like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
RV (21:22):
So I was just, that was one for me where I was like, okay, yeah. Like this is crazy. It’s crazy. It’s costing me, it’s costing me money. The fourth thing was competitive advantage. And I gotta give a shout out here to my man Lewis house because Lewis was one of the people, there were several people in my life that I met who were really high performing individuals. And as I got to know them, I was like, oh, this person doesn’t drink. And I was almost surprised. I was like, wow, I didn’t even know you could, like, it was almost like being successful in business meant you had to like drink at the golf course or drink at the happy hour or, or you know, drink at the award ceremony or drink on the airplane together or like go out for drinks and, and you know, everyone get together and you buy, buy drinks.
RV (22:09):
If you no, if you do so about stuff, it’s fine. But it was just like, it was crazy that somehow my default had become that that was mandatory. Like that it was just that you had to do it. And then I met some of these other people, one, one of ’em being Lewis, who was just this amazing guy who was co accomplishing big things in the world and he wanted to help people. He had these huge visions. What’s funny now, like all of ’em are coming true, but like back in the day it was like, you know, it was as many people who knew him and knew me and we were kind of up and coming and it was like, wow, this guy’s really cool, and, and he doesn’t drink. And so I asked him about it one time and he was just like, you know, look, you know, the way he described it to me was he was like, he was an athlete and he was like, I’m looking for every competitive advantage that I can get.
RV (22:56):
And so that was the fourth reason for me was like, competitive advantage of just going, okay, like separate morality, separate physicality. If you just look at it peer like ambition and success of like, who, what am I gonna, who am I, what am I gonna achieve someday? And, and what can I be capable of someday? And you go, okay, these are the goals I have in my life. And again, you go, does alcohol increase my odds of achieving these goals or decrease my odds? For me, it was like decreases the odds. And it was like, yeah, if all things being equal, okay, and I don’t, I’m not super competitive with other people. I’m pretty competitive with myself, but I’m not super competitive with other people. But if you just thought about, and you said, okay, if there’s three people in the race, all things being equal, and you go, if I’m a non dreger, does that give me a competitive advantage for me?
RV (23:50):
I was like, yeah, it probably does. Like it probably does. So, so why not? So that, that was a, that was a epiphany, which is kind of close to the fifth one. So the fifth one was physical vigilance. Physical vigilance. This was the fifth reason why, you know, thinking back, I stopped, I stopped drinking and I met a, a friend, or we had a friend named Navy Seal Joe and Navy Seal Joe was a Navy Seal for 24 years and he did 13 combat tours. You know, he’s running life and death missions. And he said to me, and he, he didn’t drink, and he and I, I asked him about it one time and he said, he said, it’s real simple, Rory, when you’re in Navy Seal you realize, you know your life At any moment you could be in a life or death situation like snap of a fingers, your Navy seal it.
RV (24:43):
There’s, you know, like the Marine, the Marines, the marines say no easy day, right? There’s no easy day. Like at any moment you can find yourself suddenly in a life or death situation. And he said, and I had to realize that like even once he was out of the military, the same was true, right? You can be walking down the street and in a split second, somebody walks up behind you, you’re in a life and death situation. You can be driving a car and something jumps out in front of the road and you split second, you’re in a life and death situation. You know, someone says something to you and you reacted the the wrong way to, it could be a loved one, could be a stranger. You suddenly might be finding yourself in a situation that could alter the trajectory of your life. And so he was saying that there were these moments that we never know when they’re gonna come up, but they could happen at any moment, right?
RV (25:31):
You could be, you know, tornado hurt, like, you know, hurricane, it could be volcano, could be a physical encounter, could be your, your house catches on fire and you go, are you prepared? Right? Like, if I’m drunk, does that make me prepared for that moment? For me, it was like, no, that feels not the case. It’s the opposite, right? It’s the opposite. And so I never wanted to be caught in a moment where I was like, whoa, I have handicapped my own ability to, you know, maximize the likelihood of a positive outcome in some type of a life or death situation. So it’s physical vigilance. It’s very similar. One time I remember a man came up to me after speaking he, he had read Take the Stairs and he was like, Roy, I really love the book, et cetera. And he said, you know, I doesn’t look this way, but I, I I lost 120 pounds.
RV (26:29):
And I said, wow, that’s crazy. How did you do this? And he told me, he said, well, you know, it’s amazing. It’s really like, how did I gain it? At first he was like, all I did was I got married 10 years ago and I gained a pound a month. Okay? So that’s 12 pounds a year. And I did that every year for 10 years. That’s 120 pounds. Like all I did was gain a pound a month. I did that consistently for 10 years. I’m 120 pounds overweight. And I said, well, so what happened? And he and I said, you know, what’s the diet like? What was the diet program? What was your exercise regimen like? What, what’d you, what’d you do? He said, it wasn’t any of that. He said, I had a friend whose house caught on fire and this guy’s house was burning down in the middle of the night and he had a wife and he had two kids and he had to make a decision in the middle of the night in that environment, which of his family members he was gonna carry out to safety.
RV (27:29):
And he told me, he said, in that moment, I made a de a decision that I would rather die than have to make that choice. And so I had to be in a position physically where I was strong enough to carry out all of my family. If that situation happened, I would have to be able to go room to room and pick them all up and, and, and make it out of the house. And so he said, that was the thought that moved me. It was this, the same idea of physical vigilance like that, that, that I’m ready at any moment before, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m most ready or I’m best optimized for any moment. The six is spiritual guidance. I don’t wanna spend too much time on this one cuz I don’t, I don’t want you to think that like, you know, you’re, you’re in spirit, you’re unspiritual if if you drink, you know, you’re not, I mean, Jesus, you know, his first miracle
RV (28:26):
But there, you know, when I, I look through you know, I, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m a man of God. I read the word and that’s, that’s my source of truth. And I was looking in first Peter five eight, and it says, be alert and of sober mind because the enemy, the, your enemy, the devil pros around like a roaring line looking for someone to devour, resist him, stand firm in your faith. Because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. And it’s like be alert and of sober mind, right? That’s a warning in Romans 12, one it says, therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters in view of God’s mercy, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice. Holy in pleasing to God. This is true and proper worship. And you know, again, it’s like, doesn’t mean you can’t ever drink or even that maybe you shouldn’t get drunk.
RV (29:18):
It just means like, I’m being mindful of the idea that, okay, like if, if my body is supposed to be, my life is, you know, a dedication to the Lord, you know, there’s some spiritual, there’s spiritual impacts here. This is not a salvation issue, by the way, just to make that super clear. Drinking or not drinking has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. There’s, there’s, that’s a whole different story. You know, speaking, you know, of the Christian faith that has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. The Bible to me is, is not a rule book, it’s an instruction manual. Though for how you live and you know how to get the most out of living and, you know, these are things that I saw in there. So you know, that mattered to me.
RV (29:57):
And then the seven thing was just setting an example, setting an example an an an example setting for my boys, you know, and just going, you know, my dad was an alcoholic, his dad was an alcoholic. Like it ran in our family. And again, like a couple drinks here and there, whatever, I mean, this is all for you, for you to sort out. Like but for me it was again saying like, who do I want my boys to see? Me being? Who do I want them to see me being? What do I want them to see me doing, knowing not so much that I’m concerned with what they think about me, all that’s, although that’s important, but what concerned me more is knowing that whatever it is that I do is likely to give them permission for them to do in their own life.
RV (30:56):
And even if I am spared from ever becoming an alcoholic or become, you know, getting to the place where it, it really is, is is ruling my life, they might not be so lucky and I don’t wanna be a part of any part of contributing to that right now. My boys are gonna drink one day. I mean, maybe I’ll have a drink with them one day. I don’t know. Like but it’s, it’s like, it’s just setting that example and also, you know, helping other people that are cool and, and people realizing that you can actually be cool without doing this. You could be successful without doing this. You can rise in the corporate ranks without doing this because, which is weird to even think we have to say that, but somehow the, the world is at the place where you kind of have to say it cuz it’s more like, we think the opposite of like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s weird to not drink.
RV (31:51):
Like you’re the unusual one if you’re not drinking, not the other way around. Like, it’s more normal, it’s more customary to be drinking and you can apply this to any type of indulgence, right? You know, the same things for like, you know, whatever, any type of abuse, not abuse indulgence abuse of in like a, of a substance, substance abuse is what I’m saying, or indulgence of, of some type. You know, so just, you know, that’s my identity. That’s why is going, who do I wanna be? And that’s what you gotta figure out for yourself is just who do I wanna be? And, and is this helping me or is it out? And if it’s, if it’s fine, like if it’s under control and you go, okay, yeah, it’s fine, it’s under control, fine. You know, it’s, it’s, no one should be judging you except you.
RV (32:36):
Like, it’s, it’s all up to you to decide what feels right. All right. So interruption, pause, stop the recording, stop the tape, stop the video. Stop, stop. Apologize for this interruption, but it sounds like I’ve got more to say on this topic than I anticipated. And I, again, I have no idea why I’m doing this. I just for some reason feel called to share this story with the world. But I, I’ve got more to say, in fact a lot more to say than some really, really practical tips and like actual tactical things that you can do or that I did to help me stop drink to, to help me stop drinking. So I am gonna share those with you, but we decided that, hey, this is a good place to pause and draw part one to a conclusion.
RV (33:30):
And we’ll sort of like wrap part one and then stay tuned and we will, we will bring you part two. I will not leave you hanging, but I just wanted to interrupt myself here for a moment and say there’s more to come. And if you’re, if you’re getting value out of this or if you think it’s useful for someone that, you know, that fills me up. I guess that’s really ultimately the only reason why I’m doing this. But we’re gonna split it into two different sections. So this lands the plane on part one and we’ll make sure obviously that we send out part two very, very, very soon. Make it easy for you to find. Thanks so much.
Ep 345: Be a Better Networker with Megan Roudebush | Recap Episode
AJV (00:02):
Hey y’all, AJ Vaden here and welcome to the recap episode of my conversation with Megan Rabu from Keep With Y’all. Such a information helpful interview that has ongoing tech based solutions. But just generally speaking, the importance of relationship building, aka networking was such a powerful conversation because there were three big things that came out of this conversation that I think is very applicable to you. Whether or not you use Keep with the app or use any sort of technology. These are just really great reminders around networking, again, aka relationship building. So here’s the first one I think is really important is as any sort of business or personal you know, realm, I guess what the word is, whatever the word is, like whatever your sphere is, business or personal, you need to be really clear about knowing who you wanna be introduced to.
AJV (01:11):
It doesn’t matter if you are a stay at home mom who just moved to a new town. It’s like what type of friends do you wanna meet? You know, it’s like what type of activities do you want your kids to be involved with? Like, what type of families do you want your family to meet? Like that’s really important of just being really super clear both personally and professionally of who am I trying to meet? Who am I trying to build as my sphere? Who do I wanna surround myself with? Because if you’re not intentional with that, it will happen by default and you’ll look up one day and go, I don’t fit here, or I don’t feel like I’m growing here. Or I feel, I feel out of place in my own friend group or church group or professional networking group. And it’s because it wasn’t done with strategic planning or strategic effort from the get-go.
AJV (02:00):
So I just love that. And some tactical advice on that of just going like, who are the people that I’m actually trying to build as a part of my network, right? What type of people are they? What do they do? What do they think? How do they, you know, view personal development? Who are they trying to meet? Like what is it that you wanna have in common? Are these people that you wanna be able to do business and life with? Are these people that you are searching on cause you want to learn from them? Versus are you trying to have a reciprocal business, you know, referral relationship with them? Or you know, just like what is the intent of the individuals that you want to be in your sphere? What are their psychographics and what are their demographics, right? I think that’s really important. Like, do you care about, are they in a very similar life stage of you?
AJV (02:46):
Should they be married, single with kids without kids, certain age range? I think those are things are really important. So that you just, you start building this intentional network. And then from there it’s asking yourself, who do I want to be introduced to from these people? And I think that’s where a lot of us struggle, just as much of going, who do I wanna be in business with? Like, who do I want to do business with? And you know, we use this example on the podcast so that if, you know, if you’re a real estate agent and you go, I just wanna be introduced to anyone who’s looking to buy or sell a home, as you know, a human being, it’s really hard for me to pinpoint an individual when I’m going. I think that’s anyone potentially. I’m sure I know someone.
AJV (03:33):
Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you. And that’s a very typical common response that we hear in business when somebody says, Hey, do you know someone who’s looking to buy or sell a home as this specific example? Versus if someone said, Hey I am a, you know, home buyers, you know, agent who specifically works with first time home buyers who have just moved or who have been relocated for work to the Nashville, Tennessee area. So do you know anyone who is brand new to Tennessee who’s maybe been renting, who’s gonna be a first time home buyer who is not from this area and has potentially moved here in the last two to five years? Well, it’s like immediately I know literally five people who are currently renting who have moved here from rather New York, Colorado, or California along with Half City and who I’ve been talking about just waiting for the right time to buy.
AJV (04:28):
And they will be, some of them are first time home buyers, some aren’t. But the fact that it’s like, I want to know someone who has moved here in the last two to five years and I’m going, Ding, bing, bing, bing, bing. So it’s just being really clear on who you want your sphere to be and then who you want to be referred to. So I think that was like the first eye opening part of this conversation of most of us aren’t really good at networking or, you know, strategic relationship building or asking for referrals is we’re not actually clear on who we wanna build relationships with, with and who we want to be referred to. So that’s kind of step one. The second thing is, you know, what’s your game plan for actually relationship building? And I loved what she said that was again, should be so not an aha moment for me, but it was around the importance of, you know, networking and relationship building happens everywhere you go.
AJV (05:20):
So I view it as, you know, what are, what are you doing for volunteering and how are you meeting people doing that versus, you know, who are you meeting and spending time with on different wellness endeavors? So I love to go hiking, I love going to bar class. I love going on long walks. It’s like, who am, who am I like doing those types of things with as a part of relationship building, not just going to coffee and having lunch but it’s actually creating memories, creating experiences doing things that really help you get to know someone versus just having coffee,
AJV (05:56):
Exchanging business information or questions. It’s now it’s like I, I wanna relationship build through volunteer work and through doing life things together that I can see you on a regular basis and continue these conversations and help you get to know me and help me get to know you. And I love that concept. So, so good. And then the last thing that I would say is just this importance of this mutual opt-in is what she called it. A double opt-in of making sure whenever you connect people through referrals that both people are giving you permission. And so instead of just firing off an email cuz it’s easier, it’s making sure that person A has agreed to be connected and person B has been, has agreed to be connected because that creates this reciprocal trust environment where you’re not getting random emails of going, Why, why, why are you introducing me to this person?
AJV (06:49):
I don’t know. I’m really busy right now where it’s like, no, I’m giving you a heads up aj. Hey, I really think you should meet this person and here’s why. Are you okay if I introduce you with me going, Yeah, that’d be great, Pass it along. The other person gets the same thing. So when the intro happens, I’m all that more ready and excited to accept it and to act on it. Simple, but so wise, so wise and would make me quite honestly that more, much more willing to go, Yeah, how can I help? What can I do? Yes, but it’s a part of building this trusted network where we’re all signing off on it. And people aren’t ghosting you because there’s been this mutual agreement in advance that yes, this is a good time for me, I want to do that. And so nobody is feeling left out or left behind because there wasn’t any response. So, so many good tips. Go check out the full interview, check out, Keep with you can go to keep with.com to learn more, but go listen to the full interview with Megan Rabu and we’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand. See you later.
Ep 344: Be A Better Networker with Megan Roudebush
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody, AJ Vaden here and welcome to another episode on the Influential Personal Brand podcast. I am so excited to introduce you to a newer friend of mine, Megan Roudebush. It was referred to me by a mutual friend when she was accidentally previewing this cool a she had been working on. And then I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I need to learn more about this app. Who made this app? What does this app do? And I was literally so enthralled with it. I was like, Can you please introduce me to your friends, which is Megan. So all of you are gonna get to hear from Megan, and just a quick second. But before we do that, I just wanna remind you of why you need to, we need to stick around to the very end of this show. So if you consider yourself someone who struggles networking, this is the episode for you.
AJV (00:52):
If you consider yourselves an introvert, and that’s just quote unquote, not your thing this is an episode that you need to listen to if you struggle with meeting new people engaging in relationships, getting referrals, getting word of mouth business. Once again, this episode was specifically designed with you in mind. So please, please stick your hands. Now let me give you a little bit of a formal introduction of Megan. She has so many cool things in her bio. I was literally like, What, what should I talk about? There’s like so many cool things that I will just kind of give you some highlights here. Megan is the founder of an amazing network, pla platform called Keep With that you’re gonna get to learn about. It’s an app. It just launched in two 2022. So like right now it’s like so fresh and new.
AJV (01:45):
She’s also spent much of her career as a financial compliance officer. So not only has she created this amazing technology, she knows a whole lot about how to keep data safe and how to do things the right way. But in addition to that, she has helped teach poetry, poetry, writing classes in juvenile detention centers. She has interviewed people such as Chuck Norris at the ripe age of eight, I think, I think I was that young. She’s got such a cool and varied background, and today she’s going to help teach us how to keep it interesting, how to be a better networker, and how to build a world of math business. So well, without further ado, Maggie, welcome to the show.
MR (02:27):
Aj, thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure and I love the way we ended up here literally having dinner with Amanda in Denver, so just couldn’t be more thrilled to be
AJV (02:36):
Here. Oh my gosh, I’m so excited. And I want to help our audience get to know you a little bit before we jump in and start talking about networking and just the app world in general since like you’re fresh. I mean, you’re really not even out of it yet. You’re still in it, but I think that’s like such a world that everyone is curious about. And I would love to hear your story of how did you come to the idea of creating this app? And then just some advice for all of the listeners of how do you know when you’re ready for an app, What is your advice on making an app? Then I wanna actually tell our audience what Keep With is all about. And through that process, everybody is gonna learn how to be a better networker. So how did this idea come up? How did you go from financial compliance and all of these things to creating this app?
MR (03:24):
So, so many questions I wanted just answer them all at the exact same time, which will not serve your listeners very well at all. So I started Keep with the boring answer is that as a grownup in the world I was known to be very careful with relationships. So a native New Yorker, grew up in New York City, moved to Chicago, Vdidn’t know anybody. And when I got here, I was very careful and methodical about building my network. I joined the Executives Club of Chicago. I, you know, ended up at Deloitte, started to build my network, and I had built a re a reputation for being careful and cautious. If I wanted to introduce you to somebody, I would have to get both of your permission first, right? I would not connect with anyone on a social media platform with whom I had not spoken or met.
MR (04:08):
Hmm. And so I was getting asked to speak and write about networking a lot, and I thought, Hey, I think there’s a company here, at least an LLC somewhere to put the speaking fees, right? So that’s the boring answer. The really cool answer, and you’ve hit on it, is I grew up as a kid reporter in New York City. And so from the time I was eight till the time I was 18, I was interviewing grownups about really important world problems. Interviewed Chuck Norris because he was involved in Dare that anti-drug platform, right? Also interviewed Janet Reno, you know, covered political conventions, got to meet Amy Tan. But as a kid reporter, you learn how to ask questions, open-ended ones specifically, and to care about the world. And so when I think of keyless origin story, when you’re networking and you’re really truly authentically building relationships, you’re asking questions and caring about the world. So we started in 2017, formed an llc, learned how to name a company that’s probably a whole other podcast episode, have really good IP council, that would be my tip there. And started to get hired by companies across industry and sector to help their people build relationships better. That’s how we industry agnostic, sector geography. And then eventually, and we can talk about it, we knew that we needed to build a technological solution to support our work.
AJV (05:26):
Yeah. So I, so I’m curious, like, there’s two things that you said that I think are really important that are often overlooked is the importance of caring. Now, you said about, you know, things going on in the world, but it also could be transposed to just caring about what’s going on with other people, which I think is, you know, a key relationship starter and the importance of asking open ended questions, which, you know, as a journalist or reporter, that’s just kind of what you’re taught to do. But as normal people in a business networking environment, I don’t think that’s very common. So can you expand on that just a little bit of like, how do you create a desire or a curiosity in someone else when most of us are mentally worried about, what am I gonna say next? Not, you know, I really wanna learn about you. Like, just tell me, and instead we’re more of like, Well, how can I tell you about what I do? So how do you kind of flip that switch?
MR (06:23):
You know, I, I think it’s really important, aj, you, you hit the nail on the head again, relationship building is reciprocal. And I recently heard somebody say that you should envision your eyes really big. Your ear is really big in your mouth, really small, right? And, and I, I think that’s important. So for anyone, and I actually deal with this with my seven year old, I’m like, don’t think about what you’re gonna say to me next before we actually have this conversation. For anybody who is prioritizing what they need to say next and what their message is over learning about someone else, that’s where you flip the script. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (07:40):
AJV (08:27):
Which is, why did you get into this business in the first place? Like, why did you get into this business in the first place? Instead of, you know, what do you do? It’s like, find that out and be like, How’d you get into that? Why did you get into that? But then also I love that second question is like, Hey, what do you find most rewarding about this business that you’re in? Like, those are real conversation starters that are slightly different than just what do you do? Which starts and ends pretty much the same way every time you ask it. So are there any other go to kind of questions that you would say would be really helpful in that environment?
MR (09:04):
For sure. And I’d also, if we can like to put a pin in something that you said for after we answer this question, cuz you, you mentioned something really important. You know, you can ask what someone is working on these days. You can ask what somebody, what brought the person to this event, right? If you are at an in-person networking event, what brought you here today? Because is either they’re gonna tell you about the person who invited them, and that’s an interesting story and maybe a way for you to expand your network or they’ll say, I was really excited about the speaker, or I really wanna join the organization. Or, I’m new to Chicago and don’t know anybody. And so those are all different things. What are some of your challenges right now? You know, what are you, what are you working on next year? Right now, one of my favorite things about this time of year is that there’s so many holiday events happening and it’s prime network. Like from a networking nerd perspective, I’m like all of all of the events, all of the parties, everyone’s having their annual gathering, right? And so you could say like, what’s your favorite holiday? Like, what is your go to? What is that one holiday event that you have to go to every year that is always on your calendar? Like, that’s just kind of a fun thing.
AJV (10:14):
Yeah, that’s a great question.
MR (10:16):
But you mentioned not necessarily feeling comfortable in a large gathering with a drink in your hand and wanting to go to the bathroom a lot.
AJV (10:25):
It funny, I dunno,
MR (10:26):
I’m, I’m a consummate extrovert, but I’m really finding that in this covid prepost covid situation, I, I’m extrovert to the, to the cows come home. However, even I have these introverted moments. What I would say is you may not have to stand in a large ballroom with a drink in your hand. If you prefer networking one on one, go for a walk with somebody, do a workout with somebody have a zoom with them. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (11:15):
That is such an important reminder cuz I think so often we get stuck in this idea specifically around business networking, that it has to happen around some sort of business oriented event. Or we’ve convinced ourselves that, you know, we need to be at this type of meeting or association to make it work. And that that really isn’t true. You know, I’m a much better networker in small group settings where I can actually get to know someone and not get interrupted or feel pressured to go like, make the rounds. And I think that’s a really great reminder. So I think this would be like valuable. What are, are all of the different ways to kind of kind of help open up people’s minds and broaden their perspectives around what is networking, which is just another way of saying relationship building, but what is, what are all the ways to network that really make a meaningful difference?
MR (12:08):
And you, you’re exactly right. We say that networking is the building and maintaining of meaningful relationships for personal and professional reasons in support of the goals of the people that you know and the people that they know. That’s a mouthful
MR (12:56):
And so then you’re surrounded by another sphere of influence where you’re on the board with other people who care about that. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (13:56):
Congratulations. Thank
MR (13:58):
You.
AJV (13:59):
Cool.
MR (13:59):
I’m gonna meet 50,000 other people who share this interest in doing this. Really I would say maybe outlandish, but really kind of grandiose thing. But training and training with other people and having that common interest or bond, you know, wellness focused networking is one of my personal passions.
AJV (14:15):
Yeah. And I really love, there are two things there that kind of just blow my mind a little bit. Cause I, they seem so duh, but at the same time, I, they’re not, which is volunteerism. I mean, when I just think about it, it’s like the act of doing things to add together. It’s like you’re making memories, you’re creating experiences. It’s not just that, you know, I think it’s one of the things that most people challenged or challenged with is, I don’t have time for another coffee. Right. I hear that a ton from people in our community. And honestly, sometimes I felt it’s like, man, I don’t have time for another coffee. But it’s like, but at the, at my core, like I know how important it is to make that time to network. But then it’s like there is something meaningful about it, doing it while you’re doing something else, like volunteering or wellness.
AJV (15:04):
And it’s like I go to the same bar three class that’s like my preferred workout of choice every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. And it’s like my favorite instructor, I just go to whatever she’s doing, like whatever class. But it’s like we’ve, we’ve become really good friends. And then through the process of just chatting after class one day she made a comment around, she’s gotta go get dressed up. And I was like, Oh, what for? And she was like, Oh, well my PR company, I was like, PR company. What do you mean PR company? And she goes, Yeah, in addition to owning the studio also I’m a partner and a PR company. I was like, Wait, what? And long story short, it’s like I ended up hiring her firm. But that was, again, that’s a version of networking where people don’t view it as networking, but you gotta be able to show up.
AJV (15:50):
But I love the, I love the way, like where are the, where are the places that you see people on a regular basis, right? So training for a marathon doing Peloton at 5:00 AM you create that community volunteering. I love that when that is so cool about processing your desire to volunteer and, and give back to the community as a way of networking and building relationships. And I love the concept too of you’re building relationships through doing something together. Not just trying to learn about each other’s businesses. It feels more natural and organic. And I have never viewed it that way before.
MR (16:26):
You know, it’s interesting. I have an investor he’s one of the coolest human beings on the planet and he’s such an inspiration because he built his company in such an inspiring way. And so a really good example is when I originally reached out to him, I said, Hey, we’re looking to meet other investors and customers. And he was like, Well I don’t, I I at first he’s like, Well I’m not sure how strong my network is, right? And as he’s gotten to know me and he is gotten to know the platform, he’s like, Oh, I know all the right people to introduce you to. Right? and so that’s just been been really helpful. I would also say, you mentioned not having enough time for another coffee. And I would like us to talk about the tech we sort of for move the app aside for a second, but at least our view and the view at keep with and what we’ve built the tech on is that you should have a networking strategy.
MR (17:16):
Mm-Hmm.
AJV (17:47):
Just put it out there in case anyone listening knows person,
MR (17:50):
Putting it out there that keep with, wants to partner with Peloton. If I am having a coffee with someone and I know that they might be able to help me with that introduction or that they’re wellness focused mm-hmm
AJV (18:08):
Yeah. So I’ve got two questions for you. Both for me selfishly, but then also I figured if, you know, I have these questions, other people listening have these questions. So here would be something that I find in, again, maybe this is just a me thing, I’m guessing it’s not, is sometimes networking or, and lemme just not call it networking for a second. Saying yes to a lunch or a coffee feels very one sided. And that’s why I feel like a lot of people going, I just don’t have time to do this anymore. Cuz they don’t view it as mutually beneficial or reciprocal. And I think that is in due partly because of the person who’s trying to coordinate it isn’t helping create that reciprocal environment. And so it’s easier for you to push it off, not respond and not do it. So my first question would be for everyone listening is how do you truly network set up these meetings whether virtually or in person where somebody else is inspired to go, Yes, I wanna take that hour with you or that half hour with you, I wanna get to know you.
AJV (19:15):
I do see the mutual benefit here. And not that it all has to be about, you know, give to give. Sometimes it is just give to give. But I think there’s also an art and a science of doing that in the right way where someone says, Yeah, when can we get together? Because there is this opportunity for both parties to win. So are there any tips or best practices on how do you make that where it is this reciprocal environment from even onset of thinking about it?
MR (19:46):
Yes. And I, I feel like we could have a whole conversation just about that. How do you even start, how do you know who to even reach out to? And I do at some point wanna talk about the tech cuz we have some tools in the tech to get you there. But you should be very aware of what your most important relationships are of all the different pockets of your network within those pockets. You know, who’s in your close group of key advisors, who would you call on a Friday night if something good or something bad happened? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (20:43):
Can I pause it there? Cause you said you in my opinion, glance over something that I think is wildly important. And what you just said, I think from my experience is where most people fail miserably. They do not know who they wanna meet
MR (21:06):
So there’s this tool out there aj and it’s gonna help people with that and I’m really excited. But no, you’re exactly right. So I
AJV (21:52):
Amen. Love that.
MR (21:54):
So maybe your kid has gone through the college application process recently and you can help a friend whose kid is now going through the college application process. Maybe you speak a language, maybe you’re a super connector. What are all the ways that I can add value to you? And have that list right? Then you can think about what are all the things that I need in the world right now? I could really use some help figuring out a new web developer cuz I got an email before this call that my web developer is going in a different direction. Or how can I get a new book agent because our book agent has transitioned away whatever the case may be. So have your list of the ways that you can add value. Mm-Hmm.
MR (22:38):
And those will then when I say to you at the end of a networking meeting, Hey aj, how can I be helpful to you right now? You can be like, actually I really need help with X in Chicago. But you also said people don’t know who they wanna meet. That is exactly true. And I will say to you, and I did say to you at the end of our first conversation, who are you looking to meet these days? And so in our Tech Keep West platform is really air traffic control for your relationship building and it helps you focus on who you know, who you wanna meet, your networking goals, who your people wanna meet. So if I know that you’re looking to meet clients in Chicago, I can note that and then I can add value to you every time I see a prospective client for you that builds the reciprocal nature.
AJV (23:26):
Yeah. So I think this is a great transition to talk a little bit about keep with, Cause I think one of the biggest challenges that people struggle with is just staying organized. It’s making time, it’s tracking it. Not everyone has a personal CRM or a database, not most companies do, but not all. But on a personal perspective it’s like that’s kind of the genesis of LinkedIn when it started, but yet it doesn’t do it in this strategic element. And this is what drew me in when we were, when I was meeting with our mutual friend Amanda, and she was previewing this app again, not intentionally. And I was like, Wait, this is so cool. And it was one of those things where you just recognize a need and you’re like, the reason it stuck out to me is because every single person in the brand builder’s community at some point has said, I need more of this type of client.
AJV (24:18):
I need more of these types of relationships. And they struggle with being strategic when asking of knowing who to ask, when to ask how often to ask. And there’s just a lot of, there’s a lot of, it’s, some of it’s just organization of keeping track. So if you have a desire to really be helpful and give and an effort of going, Hey, it’s like how can I serve the people around me? What can I give to people? Knowing that is the best relationship building tool you can do is just be willing to give. This is an amazing way of staying organized and tracking and making sure when life gets busy, you don’t forget all the important stuff. So tell us what is keep with and what does it do and like how does it help the everyday person like me?
MR (25:03):
For sure. So think of Keep with as air traffic control for your relationship building. And what it does is it brings together your connections, personal and professional from all the different places where you have them. So you probably have people in your social channels, you have people in your phone, you have your holiday card list, You probably as a business owner have a crm. It syncs to to CRMs and it’s a way to bring all of your people together. But it also includes the networking events that you will attend and the introductions that you are fostering and who you wanna meet and your networking goals all in one place. And then there’s a content library where you can learn how to network better. And it’s always great to have that, that educational component, but it’s bringing all of your relationship building into one platform.
MR (25:53):
It allows you to prioritize your relationships. So our mutual friend Amanda’s company had some pretty amazing success with her sales based on using our methodology, which we’re really proud of. It allows you to have a list of who you wanna meet. And so then when you’re on a plane and you sit next to somebody who knows somebody that and they say, Hey, who are you looking to meet? You’re like, Actually, I wanna meet these three people. Right? And it’s, it’s just such a great tool. One of our investors said she wished she had an executive assistant following her around to every meeting. And we don’t typically have that. But we do have keep with. And so we are enterprise facing first. We’re starting with businesses though any individual user can sign up now. But we’re B2B first and then we’ll be expanding to to b2c. There’s no spam, there’s no ads. And all introductions require consent of both people being introduced, which prevents people from flinging themselves at you in an, in an unwanted way.
AJV (26:49):
Thank you for that.
MR (26:58):
Sure. So our overall website is keep with.com and if people want to sign up, it is a paid app. You go to platform dot keep with.com and you register and sign up first, and then you download it to your device. So it’s available on iOS, Android, and web. And on our website Keep with.com you can view a demo video and anyone can also reach out to me as well.
AJV (27:24):
Awesome. Well, we’ll make sure to put all of that in the show notes to make sure everyone’s got it. But you can go to keep with.com or then platform dot keep with.com if you wanna actually get the app. Now continuing our conversation on this, you know, networking adventure that we are all on, whether or not we admit it. So we had talked about this a little bit of most people aren’t super clear on who they wanna ask for, which is probably the number one deterrent of asking. And I have been a part of so many networking meetings where I have said, Hey, who can I, you know, introduce you to, who are you looking to be connected with? Or we do a lot of facilitated networking events at Brand Builders group and they do not do what they’re supposed to do.
AJV (28:09):
And instead what they do is, Well, just tell me about your business. Instead of going, Well, this is who I am strategically looking to be introduced to. So what advice do you have for the person out there who’s going, Well, I thought I was doing that when in turn they are not, because not everyone is your audience. And I can just think of so many examples where they go, Well, I’m looking to be introduced to anyone who is interested in buying a home. Well, that’s a really broad statement. So how do you, how do you narrow it down where someone can immediately go, I know someone like that. What tips do you have to help people narrow it in?
MR (28:49):
So it, it’s funny as, as somebody who always found math challenging, I can’t believe I’m gonna give us an equation, but I’m gonna give us an equation. So we’ll do this as kind of a fill in the blank. So you can think of it as a networking goal is an objective that you are looking to accomplish with the power of your network behind you. Really simple. And, and like I said earlier, what any goal, if you’re looking to do anything, move to a new place, get a new job, get a new client become more fit, whatever the case may be, any networking goal, you know, any goal can be a networking goal, but the way that you should think about it is, I am networking to X land meet, introduce, volunteer for the purposes of
AJV (29:32):
Y
MR (29:33):
And you can get even more specific and say, you know, I am networking to meet home buyers in this market looking to spend this dollar range for the purposes of X. Or I’m looking to meet people who know lots of people who want to buy houses, right? Because then they’re the super connectors and you get more bang for your buck. So it’s having networking goals that are specific and include why you wanna meet the person. If I just tell you, Hey aj, I wanna meet Barry McCarthy, the CEO of Peloton, you’re like, That’s nice, Who doesn’t? But if I say I wanna meet Barry McCarthy because I know that Peloton is a new tech solution and he wants to add apps to his platform and that I know at a micro level we’ve really helped people in the community connect better. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (30:28):
Yeah. And I love that too. Because we talk a lot about getting really clear on what, you know, you’re talking about like your, you know, networking strategy in terms of people, we would call it your avatar. It’s like know exactly who your avatar is. It’s not I’m looking for home buyers. It’s looking say, Hey, I wanna serve home buyers who are new and I live in Tennessee who are new to Middle Tennessee, so I wanna serve that market who is, you know, an out of state transplant who is looking to buy a home, who is, you know, spending this amount of money X, Y, and Z. But you’ve added a whole nother level of, but why, why this type of person? And I think that’s really unique. So can you just put a little bit more context around that because I think that part will really help it stick. That’s the sticky part of that personal connection that why to it
MR (31:20):
There’s a trust and an authenticity to to relationship building that really, really matters. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (32:13):
Yeah.
MR (32:13):
Because it’s based on something
AJV (32:15):
Mm-Hmm.
MR (33:02):
So first and foremost I always encourage people, keep with, always encourages people to be a connector, to always be thinking about who you can introduce. The key most critical component is to get double opt-in first. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (33:57):
Mm. I like that. So just to clarify, I wanna make sure everyone hears that quickly. Get permission from both parties before you make the mutual introduction. So if I had, if I’m like, Oh my gosh, I just met someone today, they need to meet Megan. It’s like, Hey Megan, hey, I met someone today. I really love to introduce you. Are you okay with that? As well as telling my friend Bob Smith, Hey Bob, you want me to introduce you to Megan? Great. And then I, then I make the connection, right?
MR (34:23):
And that is currently a pretty clunky process. You do emails, but we’ve solved for that with the technology. So we have double opt in, I select, you select me, you select Bob, we both get a prospective introduction, we both consent, and then the introduction proceed. Awesome.
AJV (34:38):
So it takes care, the automation takes care of all of the personalized manual work that you would be doing otherwise.
MR (34:45):
And you then can keep track of, oh, I sent Megan three potential introductions and she declined all of them, right? Oh, so they proceed. That also gives you some intel. So getting double optin, but I would also just say on a very fun level, build the person up that you are introducing. My favorite things to do is send a note to two people and tell them why they’re awesome. Mm. You know, you need to know you. And very rarely it’ll just like, my gut will just tell me, the universe will be better if you two know each other. And so I’ll say that. I’ll say, These are the rock star things about this person. These are the rock star things about this person. And I have no specific goal or purpose, but I just know two HR experts need to make the world better, right? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (35:47):
Yes. Which most people won’t do typically, right? But I love that. I love that buildup where both people feel so complimented that the, you know, flattery does go somewhere sometimes flattery helps a lot. And I love the other thing that you said too is explain why they should connect. I feel like when I get a bunch of introduction, you know, emails, it’s often at the end of it I’m like, I hear you’re awesome. I’m not sure exactly why they wanted us to get together. I’m willing to meet, but it’s like most of my willingness comes out of my desire to keep my relationship strong with whoever sent this random connection. Because the context of here’s why you need to meet is missing. So I think that is really important to build both parties up and then connect the dots. And then here’s why I think you guys need to meet each other.
MR (36:42):
And it’s also so important that we’ve really, like your network is your most important asset. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (37:20):
I love that. And I think that’s really, really important of you’re not just connecting people that you don’t know, but there is a trusted relationship that you are passing on to another trusted relationship. I love that. This is so good. Okay, last question. Watching the clock, I’m paying attention. So last question. What do you think people need to know about networking that they don’t know?
MR (37:48):
The importance of making time to do it? So I think a lot of people think if they stay heads down in their work, they’ll, you know, so it’s very important to take deliberate time to network. I also think that people do not think enough about including personal and professional members of your network. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (38:49):
I love that. I love just be discerned of who comes in, who stays in. I think that’s a really important just reminder to us all is I just, I somebody referred, I just remember this time last year I was at a conference, a summit of a really good friend who was hosting it and I was one of the speakers and one of the sponsors of the events concert. I just naturally assumed worked with the person who was putting on the event. I was like, well, there’s no way she would’ve had a sponsor come speak on her behalf unless that she was a client. That was a very bad assumption of mine. So I hired this company for tens of thousands of dollars, had a horrific experience. 60 days in, I’m like, no. And so I reached out to my friend, I’m like, Hey, I just, I want you to know.
AJV (39:39):
And they were like, she’s like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t know. And I’m like, Have you not ever worked with ’em? And she goes, No. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Was like such a great reminder of ask don’t make assumptions. And then I was, I went back to this company and I was like, listen, this is a hundred percent not what was advertised. Like this is not okay. This, I had to get so many other people involved to even like, get out of this contract because I’m like, I really did it based on my assumption that somebody else’s trust that that’s what they were putting in front of their audience. And I was so wrong and that’s my fault. That’s no one else’s thought. I made that assumption. But to your point your, your involvement with the people around you reflects on your reputation.
AJV (40:25):
They’re an extension of you. And then I also, I lied and I have one more question cuz I said I was gonna ask it in the very beginning and then I got on this deep dark road of networking, which I think is so important. I also asked earlier about apps. How do you know when you’re ready to have an app? How, like how do you know if you should have an app? And since you have been in need deep eyeballs deep in this for almost five years, I would just love for your quick personal, you know, share with our audience of how do you know if you should have an app and how do you know when you’re ready? And that’ll be the last question, I promise.
MR (41:03):
Okay. I’m gonna go to what you first said though though because the, the what you just described about the contract and people not knowing, one of the most important questions that people need to ask is how well do you know so and so? Mm-Hmm.
MR (41:44):
So that’s just, but ditto solidarity hands at your back. I been where you’ve been
AJV (42:50):
MR (42:51):
That. Any problem? Think about it like this weekend, wherever you are. Like if someone’s like, I wish we had, it’s like, I think there’s got, I think I’ve heard there’s gotta be a startup fixing that. And so I wanted to be the startup that fixed networking. And so we started to go down this path. We raised some capital very quickly. Some other time we can talk about the traction and the speed and there was a whole bunch of excitement and capital raised and I was introduced to Amanda and, and the tech started and away we went. And so working with the app at team and their unparalleled professionalism and excellence and UI experience and they just got us our mutual friend once said to me, It’s great that you’re my client and we’re building the tech together, but you’ve changed my life and that’s what relationships do.
MR (43:34):
So I knew we were ready when we were getting companies around the world, across industry and sectors saying that they were finding it hard. And so I thought then we are in our houses. Hello, welcome to my kitchen. Right? And so we had to use technology to stay connected even if we’re one of those people who say that we hate doing it on Zoom. So there were a whole confluence of factors and we’ve now built tech that has looked at the pain points of existing solutions that is really based on who you know and who you wanna meet. No spam, no ads, no noise. And we feel like we’ve built something that’s really gonna help people to build relationships better.
AJV (44:10):
No, I love that. And I think, you know, some of that is, you know, it’s definitely not easy, but it’s also kind of simple of going, it’s, you know, basic laws of, you know, supply and demand. It’s like you were having a lot of demand. That’s how you knew. It’s like I have to do something that’s more scalable. Something that is more far reaching than me just being on stages. That can only, you can only do so many. And so I think looking at the demand, I think that’s a really good tip for anyone who’s listening of going, Are people asking for what you do? To the point that like, I don’t have enough bandwidth to continue doing it because I’m getting asked so often to help with X, Y, or Z. Is the demand there enough and is it scalable enough? But there’s an opportunity to take it into a a tech-based platform and I love that. Now you just clarifying cuz it’s like you’ve been working on this for a long time so it’s not like it’s one of those things you just whipped up over the last 12 months.
MR (45:05):
No, we, we started as keep with in in 2017 and have been developing the content and the methodology and the approach for some time. In September of 21 is when we really started to raise capital in earnest. I was introduced to Amanda cuz I needed to find the right team to build our tech. And we used our network to find the right team. And then people have talked about how quickly and beautifully we’ve been able to build technology from September to April. The, the tech launched in April of this year in beta. We spent the summer working out some bugs. It’s fully functional and now we are talking to some very large global enterprises about implementing it across their companies.
AJV (45:45):
Man, so cool, so exciting. Congratulations. Like how cool to see this idea come to fruition in such a way that is passion driven and really meant to help people make networking not so hard. It’s so awesome to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Y’all go check out, Keep with go to keep with.com or if you wanna just go ahead and download the app platform dot keep with.com. Megan, if they wanna connect with you personally, where should they go?
MR (46:17):
Sure. Megan, m e g a n Keep with.com. Just send me a note, shoot you my calendarly. You can also connect with me on Keep with and book some time. But the easiest way is [email protected].
AJV (46:30):
So cool, so generous. What a great, helpful interview. Thank you so much for being on and everyone else stay tuned for the the short recap version after this and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
MR (46:44):
Thanks AJ.
Ep 343: How to Scale a Coaching Company and License Your IP with Todd Herman | Recap Episode
RV (00:02):
Holy smack,
RV (01:12):
And, and we know something about it. We’ve sold a company a coaching business, but I think it was far undervalued for what it should have been. And I think knowing, knowing many of the thing, like having learned some of these things, I’ll share with you some of my highlights is definitely gonna change the, the future of our, our business. And the way it already is, AJ and I have already taken action on several of these things from when this interview took place. So, first of all, alright, so Todd Herman was, was our guest. We were talking about how to scale a coaching company and how to license your ip. And here’s my top three takeaways. So first of all, my very first takeaway is about the power of trademarks, or I should say the value of trademarks and the, the financial value of trademarks.
RV (02:02):
So, you know, if you go back and you listen, one of the things that Todd said is he said, look, if somebody’s gonna come by your company, if you’re a personal brand company, is he said, the first thing they’re gonna ask you is, how many trademarks do you own? What? Like, I’ve never, no one has ever said that before. Like, I’ve never, I’ve never heard that before. Because we have not spent a lot of time like focused on our ip. Like, and it’s you know, one of the things he said is he said, look, if if you win an IP infringement case in the US it’s a minimum of $250,000. So he said, we don’t, you know, he doesn’t send cease and desist letters. He just sues people. And that’s pretty wild. You know, like that’s a pretty assertive or aggressive stance.
RV (02:50):
I mean, depending on how you look at it. But I gotta tell you, this is a place where I feel like we’ve been getting, we’ve been getting the short end of the stick here. There are so many quotes of mine that get ripped off and stolen and put all over the internet there. I mean, there’s a few of ’em specifically, success is never owned. It’s rented and the rent is due every day that originally appeared in Take the Stairs be the Buffalo and my Buffalo story. People are now putting that in their TED Talks. We’ve got you know, this, this story I tell do it scared about do it scared again. That was 10 years ago. We published that in a New York Times bestselling book, and we almost never get cited for those things. And then, you know, my focus funnel from my TED talk on how to multiply time and in a brand builders group, I mean, we’ve got dozens of these visual frameworks.
RV (03:45):
Now, some of those things are, are, are not trademarks that we can get. Like success is never owned. It’s rented. The rent is due every day. That’s more of like, you know, kind of like a copyright issue. Anyways, we, we need to, we need to do an episode for you on the difference between just copyrights and, and and trademarks. But specifically what, what Todd was talking about is these visual frameworks that you create, which we have a bunch of them, right? Like we have the brand DNA Helix and the modular content method. I mean, we have the, the services spectrum, and I mean on and on and on on, we have the marketing map for book launches. And I mean, every single one of our 14 curriculums has at least two to five frameworks. And in our captivating content course we teach people how to create their own frameworks.
RV (04:38):
Like we teach our clients how to do this is something that we’re really good at. What we haven’t been doing is actually protecting them legally. And this is the part that blew my mind is he said, each trademark is worth approximately $250,000 to your valuation. So we’ve got 14 topics in our curriculum. We have 14 courses in our full curriculum. Let’s just say that each one of those has three frameworks, some of ’em have more, but if we have three, then that’s, that is 30. That means we have 42, we got 42 frameworks. What is the math on this? I need to look at this. I got so pause for the interruption here. So if we’ve got a minimum, let’s say 42 frameworks in our whole Brand Builders group curriculum and $250,000 each, that is 10 million by itself. That means we could, you know, according to this rough math, right?
RV (05:39):
And it’s, it’s rough math, but it’s, it’s, it’s based on, it’s based in reality. We could add 10 million to our company valuation by going out and getting trademarks and all this. So guess what we’re doing? We are getting trademarks like crazy. So we have started this process. We are going down that path to get trademarks on these things because they’re super duper powerful. So anyways that is a big, a big, big, big deal. And, and, and a and a big i a big idea. So I think that was fascinating. So you gotta, first of all, it shows you the power of creating frameworks, which if you don’t know what that is, like gosh, request a call with us, y’all like free brand call.com/podcast. Just do it. And seriously, you’re talking about millions of dollars in, in this one thing. If we teach you how to create like a couple frameworks, it can be worth a million dollars to you.
RV (06:36):
Like that. One thing that you would learn, and this is one of our biggest specialties, is helping people create their own visual frameworks and things. And and then we’re about to make a specialty of how to get those things trademarked,
RV (07:29):
But then what you need to do is then go back and record yourself on explaining why you trained it the way you trained it. Record that. And that becomes the, the train the trainer content. And so the train, the train, their model, which has been around for decades is this idea that, you know, like with companies like frankly, Covey was one of the, one of the, you know, they went public for doing this. They were, they’re nine figure business and went public and a huge part of what they did. So I remember I got to meet Dr. Covey. So, you know, this is all based on seven habits of highly Effective People. And the late Dr. Steven Covey and I got to meet his son one time. He came to our house, someone invited him to our house, we had this little get together, and he was explaining to me how they did their whole business.
RV (08:14):
And, and a big part of it was this train the trainer model where you, you know, let’s say they have you, you have your program, you have your normal course, and let’s just say it takes two days for someone to go through your full experience. Well, when you sell it, you can say, okay, come through the, the full program for two days and you pay X or pay X plus y and stay a third day or a fourth day, and I’ll, I’ll certify you. So not only will you go through the program, you also will become certified to teach the program to other people. And that’s a train the trainer model. Or sometimes people would call it a two plus one because it was like basically a two day public event and then a one day certification training and the content for that third day is what he was talking about.
RV (09:02):
So what Todd was talking about in the interview was saying, you know, train your, train it record, record yourself training it, and then record yourself explaining why you trained it that way. And that is what becomes the content for that third day, which becomes a product in and of itself that you can sell for lots of money. And then, you know, the way that the Covey, you know, family was describing this to me, is that really what that business model is, is shipping kits. They’re shipping kits. What does that mean? Because they, they, they wouldn’t make their money on the, the certification as much, although you can. You know, there’s, we got a lot of friends that do certifications, make a lot of money doing it, Donald Miller. And you know, like Jeffrey Gier does this, John Maxwell does this where they certify, they certify, by the way, if you didn’t know, this Brand Builders group now is certifying and licensing our content to people to go out and teach different parts of our content.
RV (09:55):
We don’t license all 14 parts, but there are certain parts of our curriculum that you can get licensed in, and we can, we can help you move faster in your business by giving you our content, you licensing, you’re buying our content, but then having the right to go reteach it and charge, you know, bundle it in with your other services and charge and our content’s amazing. And it’s really, really well, well polished. So anyways, the way that the Train the trainer model works is, so you, you know, you make money selling someone to come to your two day event. You make more money certifying them on how to teach your content, but then where they would make the most money is that they, they could, they could charge whatever they wanted to put people through their class. The only caveat of the arrangement legally was that they had to buy their kits for certifying people through the, the home company, right?
RV (10:50):
So, so say for example, you paid Brand builders group, you know, whatever, let’s, let’s call $5,000 you know, 7,500 bucks, something like that. Which is often, you know, typically somewhere between 20 512,500 is typically what you’ll pay for like an annual license to be able to teach somebody else’s content, right? And then you get to come and part of that includes, you know, materials and everything, but then when you go out and you, you sell it and you say, all right, I’m gonna host a class on this thing, but then you have to buy the workbooks from us. And what they do is they make these really nice kits with workbook. You know, the, first of all, the book is in there, workbooks are in there. They have little chachkis desk calendars, quote books you know, maybe CDs, maybe little like, you know, action guides or whatever.
RV (11:37):
And you know, maybe a magnet and flyer, you know, like some, like a map they put up on the wall. All these different sort of like ches that you build around your content and it comes in this box, which is a kit. Well, if, let’s say someone from United Healthcare as an example likes your content, they come through, they get certified, you might make a few thousand bucks from that person getting certified. But what you really want is you want them to, to take 5,000 employees through your content. Cuz now 5,000 people are getting introduced to your content and they’re also buying 5,000 kits. Well, if each one of those kits is a hundred bucks, y’all, what is this? 5,000 times a hundred. I don’t wanna overestimate this. That’s $500,000 from one customer, from one event, you know, from one from one company.
RV (12:29):
You could make a half a million dollars doing that. And that’s what, that’s what the train the trainer model is. And so that’s just, you know, it was super pragmatic. It was a good reminder of that, that business model. And and that is something by the way, that we are doing. So, you know, if you actually, if you actually go to brand builders group.com, if you are looking at if you’re interested in this, I’m pulling up our own website here for a second just to make sure I tell you, right? But if you go to brand builders group.com and then you go under brand strategy, there’s a, there’s a link that says content licensing, and you should do this. You know, even if you’re not a, you know, if you’re, even if you’re not interested in getting certified on our content to, to resell it you should go to this page.
RV (13:12):
The shortcut to the page, by the way, is brand builders group.com/get certified. You can at least go to this page and see how we’re doing it and see how we’re, we’re selling our certifications and you know, just monitor that. But like the book Strength Finders, you know, we interviewed Tom Rath on this podcast. It’s the best selling non-fiction book of all time other than the Bible. And the you know, since the creation of Amazon, I should say. And that’s what they do. They sell thousands of copies every week. Cause they’re a train the trainer model. And so people are buying, like, buying these, buy the droves because they’re certifying their clients and they basically have an army of salespeople out there selling this book and this methodology. So really, really powerful stuff. Again, you gotta be protected. So you need to have your trademarks in place, you gotta have your agreements, you gotta have good frameworks, you gotta have tight content, all the, all the things that we, we coach people on how to do.
RV (14:11):
But then, gosh, this is how you go out and scale it, which is just like exponential thinking, really, really, really powerful. And then the third takeaway for me from this interview, which was just a good reminder, and you can’t, you can’t hear this enough, and I can’t hear this enough, but I loved that Todd really edified this and, and, and, and hit it hard as he said. You know, everyone spends all their time on the, on the, the marketing and sales side of the business. But when you’re building a truly scalable coaching company, or when you’re trying to create intellectual property that actually has enterprise value, it’s
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Really all about the delivery. It’s all about the implementation, it’s all about the execution. It’s about, it’s the client success that grows the business. The way that we say this is that the, the best form of marketing is to turn your customer force into your sales force. How do you turn your customer force into your sales force? You help your customer succeed and everything you do, if you, you have to become consumed. You have to become like just completely infatuated and, and, and like totally focused on how do I help my clients succeed faster? You wanna grow your coaching business, that’s the number one question you need to be answering. How can I help my clients succeed faster? What tools can I help them to implement faster? What, what support do they need? What type of training? What type of structure? And it’s all about, it’s not so much, oh, I need to teach you everything.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You know, I need to be focused, not so much on teaching you everything you need to know. I need to be focused on helping you get results as fast as you can. I need you to get traction quickly. And so you’re, you’re perpetually innovating. You’re, you’re iterating your content, you’re adapting, improving your content. Not to add more content, but to basically do it, to, to have less and go, what’s the least amount I can teach to get so that somebody has to consume the least amount in order to get the result? And that’s very much what we are. You know, the journey that we’re on right now in Brand Builders group. We’ve got amazing content and curriculum, and now it’s just like we’re constantly going, how can we sharpen this and whittle it down and, and make it tighter? I would also point you to the interview that we did with Amy Porterfield on this show.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
By the way, Amy Porterfield is now one of our clients brand’s group client, which is super exciting. And we, but before Amy was a client, I interviewed her on the show talking about creating courses and, and we did this whole thing about she was talking about the importance of getting your students to complete the course and, and things that you need to do along that way. And so that’s what I want you to be focused on, right? Like the best form of marketing is a changed life. The best form of marketing is a changed life. The best form of marketing is a customer of yours who wins a a customer who creates a massive result. And this is why we’re talking about our customers all the time, right? Like we just had our 11th customer this last week hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller list 11 times.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
We have helped a client hit the New York Times Wall Street Journal and or USA Today bestseller list 11 times. We just had our fourth client create a viral TED talk, meaning they wrote a TED talk that got over a million views. This is somebody that we’ve been coaching for years following our methodology of applying the principles and applying it to a Ted, TED talk and getting over a million views a fourth time. We’ve done that, right? Like we, we have four clients, four clients that have gone from zero to over a million dollars in business within a couple years of starting in our program from, from like zero to over seven figures a year. Now, we don’t promise that for everybody. That’s not an income claim. I’m not guaranteeing that. I’m saying though, that we’ve had four people do that. So these are the results that make people like, those are the wins.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
We need more of that. We don’t need four, we need 400, right? So that is the, that’s the, that’s where you want the obsession to be. Not just how do I sell somebody and get a new client, but going, how can I help my client succeed faster? How can I help them win? How can I what can I do to shorten the learning curve? What tools and templates can I create for them to get them there quicker? And, you know, that is, that is where the magic happens. That’s how you get people to win. The most powerful form of marketing is a changed life. And when you focus on that, you turn your customer force into your sales force. And once that happens, you’re gonna have exponential radical growth. You’re gonna be scaling a business and scaling a company that has real enterprise value that is a high level education some seriously valuable information.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The interview with Todd and this, you know, what we’re talking about here. So share this episode. Will you, with somebody who’s serious about scaling their personal brand, not just having one, but going, how do you scale one to multi seven figures and eight figures? This is something we know something about, right? We have had four, AJ and I have launched four multimillion dollar businesses and and an eight figure business. And brand builders group is very much on its way to eight figures. We should be at eight figures within the next year or two. So like these concepts work. They’re powerful, life changing, I mean, changing the complete trajectory of your family tree and you’re learning it for free right here on the Influential Personal Brand podcast. And of course, if you want to come alongside of us and let us be your personal coach and help you implement these things directly and apply them faster so that you can get results quicker, go to free brand call.com/podcast and let’s have a chat about that. Until then, keep tuning in here. Enjoy it. Thank you for being here. We’re so grateful for you. Share this with your friends, keep coming back. We love ya. And we’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.
Ep 342: How to Scale a Coaching Company and License Your IP with Todd Herman
RV (00:02):
You know, as humbly as I can say, sometimes when I think about this podcast, I go, it’s insane the quality of the guests that you hear and get access to for free and the quality of guests that I get access to for free. And today is definitely an example of that you are about to meet. If you don’t already know one of the smartest people in business, in personal development. That’s how I would describe Todd Herman. We’ve known each other for years at a distance. We’ve, we kind of gotten closer over the last few years and just every time I turn around somebody’s talking about how brilliant this guy is and how sharp and how awesome he is. So he’s a Wall Street Journal bestselling author of a book called The Alter Ego Effect the Power of Secret Identities to Transform Your Life, which came out years ago, but has been, you know, one of these perennial bestsellers.
RV (00:55):
He’s an international speaker, he’s a peak performance coach. He has been the recipient of Inc’s 500 fastest growing Companies award. He speaks for groups like ypo, like some of the most prolific groups around of course he’s been featured in CBS and Business Insider. A lot of the like, you know, major media kind of empires. But one of the things that Todd has done that is super unique, which is what I am particularly interested in, not cuz we’re trying to do this, but because we kind of did this once and very few people do it, is scaling a training, coaching, consulting business and selling it. He has done this three different times in three different ways with sort of three different group, like three different kind of models, which is what we’re gonna talk about because I think that this is the future. I think that pe personal brands eventually wake up to the idea to go, yeah, I wanna be well known. I wanna have influence, I wanna have reach, but dang it, if I’m gonna work as hard as normal entrepreneurs, I also wanna have something that has enterprise value and asset value. So anyways, I kind of just begged Todd to say, dude, will you come on the show and just like, share your wisdom. And it took me a long time to coordinate schedules, but he’s here. It’s great to have you bro.
TH (02:14):
Dude, I’m excited. Yeah, just to dig into this stuff cause I know your audience and the topic around, you know, building a coaching business that could be somewhat sellable for someone is such a foreign concept for many people. Not that everyone has to sell something, but I’ve been in this space for 26 years. I’m going into my 26 year, I started in 1997 before coaching was a thing. So happy to open up the kimono so, so to speak and just drop as much as I can to help out.
RV (02:47):
Yeah. Well, I’d love to hear it. And I do wanna get into, I wanna talk a little bit about alter ego, cuz I know that ties in, I mean, that ties into it. Yeah. But just to give us the history of scaling and selling a company and, and I want to hear just kinda like, okay, you have these sort of three different generations or iterations that you’ve done. Yeah. And you know, I think like I was mentored by Zig Ziegler and I knew him personally and I was, I was friends with him when he fell and he hit his head and he started to lose his short term memory. And it was interesting to see how that affected the business. Right. Yeah. And he couldn’t speak anymore. And of course Dave Ramsey is here in Nashville and he’s been thinking about y for years about succession planning and scaling the business beyond him and creating the personalities. And I think this is, as personal brands wake up to the idea of going, man, how do I build something that outlasts me that runs without me? I’m not the just the dancing bear on stage all the time. Yeah. And you, you’ve, you’ve done that, man. So tell us, tell us three quick stories about what they were.
TH (03:51):
Yeah, so the, the very first one was the peak athlete, which is what I started in 97. And I was you know, very young at the time. I was 21 when I started doing mental game coaching, people performance stuff for athletes. And I as I was growing that business, I did it on the back of really only one channel. So there’s different types of channels we can all use to market with, right? And so the only thing I knew how to do, I was not a marketer by any stretch imagination, but I grew up in the world of four h I grew up on a big ranch in farming. Yeah. Canada, and, you know, in the world of four H, it’s like agricultural boy scouts for people who don’t know. And you always had to do a speech every single year in your club.
TH (04:35):
And if you won that one, then you’d go to the next level and next level, next level. So I started when I was 10 and I just fell in love with speaking. I was very natural at it. And that was what I used to grow the peak athlete was I offered free speeches in a context of 90 days and I ended up doing 68 free speeches in my province of Alberta where I was living at the time. And people go 68 species, 90 a day. How did that happen? And I mean, that’s a completely different story, but that’s what kind of got me my waiting list of clients. Okay. Got it. That it, and so, but I was trading nothing but time for dollar. I was super busy. I would charged $75 for a package of three sessions. That’s what my price point was when I did my quick in taxes in 97, 98, 99, I was making $8 and 56 cents an hour.
RV (05:24):
Nice
TH (05:26):
Gas money was my biggest cost was traveling around all these young kids after school to, to see them. But I’m a big,
RV (05:34):
You were selling to kids, you were doing speeches and then at the end of the speech you were basically saying, Hey, if you like this, join my, my $75 package coaching program.
TH (05:45):
Yep. Yep. How I gave up my free speech was I said, I’ll do my talk for free. Normally it’s $2,200, but if you get all one parent from each of the kids in the room, I’ll do it for free because they’re the wallet holder. Right. That was the, that was the worst part about that business was this person’s getting the service, but this other person’s paying for it. Right. But as a parent, we’ll do anything for our kids. Right. So that was the, that was what I did. So the offers were either work with a kid one on one or come in and work with a team. So I was just learning as I was going. There was no internet back then for me to be Googling how to run a coaching business because that wasn’t even an industry at the time.
TH (06:26):
And so this is awesome. I love this so much, but I was super, but I was, you know, even though I wasn’t making much money, I was busy and I was working a lot and I loved what I was doing, so I was getting a lot of reps, which is probably the thing that’s most overlooked in I think our world today. People are trying to race towards expertise status before they ever even have any sort of practitionership or, you know, send you on the muscle or on the bone. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve passed well over 19,000 hours of 1 0 1 coaching with elite athletes. So, long story short was, was doing quite well, but I didn’t, I just knew I didn’t know enough. So I sought out a mentor named Harvey Dorfman, and he’s known as the Yoda Baseball greatest mental game coach to ever live.
TH (07:14):
Cold called him, asked if I could come and spend some time with him in North Carolina during the baseball off season. And he called me back and he said, you’re not gonna live with me kid, are you? And I said, no, I have got an aunt and uncle who lived near you in North Carolina, which was a lie. That wasn’t true at all.
TH (07:56):
And then he started funneling me clients and he also talked to me about like, hey, like developing intellectual property, had never heard of that before. So, you know how this then ties into all these other ones is if you wanna grow and scale and ultimately sell a business, what people don’t understand about this world is one of the first questions any company is gonna ask you is how many trademarks do you own? Okay. My company now, like the one that I, the one existing I own 44 trademarks. Wow. Each one of those trademarks has a dollar value on it. So everyone thinks it’s all about, well how much revenue are you doing in your company? No. A buying company wants to know how well is your stuff protected in the inte cuz this, this is what we’re selling is intellectual property, whether it’s your coaching process, whether it’s the method that you have, whether it’s the brand framework that you use. And so I fell down that rabbit hole of learning about intellectual property. I went to Steve Jobs, his mentor David Sip is his name. He wrote the book visual meetings, visual teams, visual leaders. Steve Jobs only mentor mentioned him once. And that was at a speech that I happened to be at at University of Washington. So I went and learned how to draw models and create models and frameworks and whatnot. So ultimately the peak athlete ended up selling two decades later almost to Ral Madrid. In,
RV (09:25):
So did you have other like coaches or was it just the methodology in the IP that you sold?
TH (09:31):
I, i, rare there was I never scaled through other coaches. I scaled through intellectual property and licensing. So the peak athlete, I built out a amazing training system for developing the inner inner game of athletes. And then I licensed it to the German soccer federation, the Danish Olympic team, the South African spring box sports teams around the world. And
RV (09:58):
I actually just went to a South African spring box rugby game in Sydney, Australia, like a month ago.
TH (10:06):
That’s how lucky are you? That would’ve been a great game because it
RV (10:08):
Was, it was awesome. So you you, you licensed this methodology to these teams. Yeah. So you just cold called these teams and then said, Hey, I’ve got a process for training your athletes and it’ll cost you this much per year or whatever.
TH (10:26):
Well, I mean, this goes back to the benefit of speaking a lot. So I would, because I was speaking so much, all the leads were basically coming in at the end of those talks. And then I had built up such a good name that at the highest level of really any industry, most decisions are made by, you know, Hey Rory, do you know anyone that is XY good at X, Y, and Z? Yeah. And if you can keep your name top of mind, which is, which is branding or personal branding it’s a com It’s a very unfair advantage that you have. So I never had to do as much cold calling. I did do direct outreach, but that really wasn’t my game. My game was getting on stages and around the world talking about what I talked about and which was building the triune athlete, the mentally, emotionally, and physically tough athlete. And and then giving people processes. And then, you know, I would mention in my stories in case studies that, you know, the German soccer federation since 2004 has been, you know, licensing our training and, and their development of their athletes and, and on and on and on.
RV (11:36):
So yeah. So you weren’t cold calling them, you were working through relationships, but they were, they were a client of yours, so they were paying to access your system.
TH (11:46):
Yeah.
RV (11:47):
Yeah. And then you would deliver it to them.
TH (11:49):
Like, I would do a train the trainer series. I would do a trainer, the trainer series with all their people one showing them how to train on it and then second showing them how to coach on it. And that was the secret was because there was a lot of stuff out there that’s training in nature. The problem is if your stuff is only at the level of training someone or educating, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s becoming an embedded part of the ethos or the philosophy of an organization. But when people are now taking the training and implementing it through coaching, that’s a very different you know, essentially metastas metastasized tumor that goes on inside of that company. So, you know, German Soccer Federation renewed that license for well over a decade with me. So I did the work once and then every year I would do an update with them. Typically a two hour call with their head of training and a few other people. And and that was basically it.
RV (12:56):
Interesting. So they’re just, so you’re trained the trainers and then you’re licensing the IP for them to go and administer it. How do you define the difference between training and coaching?
TH (13:10):
Well training is typically one to many people at the front of a room where you’re introducing whether it’s new concepts, new methods, you’re, you’re teaching something, you’re training someone on how to, especially with our world of like intellectual property and think like, I’m not showing you how to swing a baseball bat necessarily. Cuz you can train someone on that and you can, that’s where training and coaching kind of gets a little bit mixed up at the same time. But in our world, there are two very different disciplines. Training is giving them the processes, the systems coaching is ensuring that it’s being put into action. And coaching is really about three things. There’s really, coaching is only three things. Encouragement, accountability, and progress. Those are the three legs of the stool that support a coach. If you’re someone who doesn’t know how to encourage or can’t hold people accountable or can’t model back to people the progress that they’re making, those you would grade yourself very low on being a good coach.
RV (14:12):
And so then who did you sell this to? Because you’re already, you’re already printing money, right? If you’re licensing it, it’s just like, yeah, these people are using it and that person is using it. So like, who did you sell it? How did you identify the buyer? How do you value that kind of a thing. Mm-Hmm.
TH (14:32):
Yeah. So first, who did you sell to? It was as two ways you came in. Relationships with coaches would be the most common way for me to come in. So could be the the, the GM or coach of, say the German national soccer team. Okay. And I develop a relationship with him because I have a relationship already with the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Like people don’t realize in sport just how much people from other industries now share and talk. And I got to live through that cycle in the eighties and nineties, not necessarily so, but two thousands, very collaborative culture. And so in through the coach or in through training directors you’ll be be looking for, let’s say the director of training for the Danish Olympic team. Okay. They’re the people who are tasked with how can we improve and develop our athletes. And they’re out there constantly doing research, trying to find out what’s new in physiology, behavioral sciences, neurosciences and, and whatnot. And that’s, those would be the two main people that I’d be coming in through was there in professional sports. Like the nhl I did a direct mail campaign and it was, I sent out the direct mail campaign to the GMs of the teams and to the head coaches. So every team would get two letters. One to the GM and one to the head coach of the team.
RV (16:01):
Yeah. So when I meant sell, so that’s awesome. That’s, that’s helpful is just like, you know, there’s somebody in charge of buying the thing and you figure out who they are and you work through referrals and presentations and direct mail. Yeah. I meant when you sold the company, did you, you actually sold that company?
TH (16:17):
Yeah. So what happened was Real Madrid has now become the the diamond on top of the sports mountain. There are sports teams from around the world who go to Real Madrid University. They have a university now and make a pilgrimage to go and learn about how Ral Madrid develops their athletes because they’ve been so far ahead of everybody else. Like North American Sport has been an archaic mountain for a long time with the way that they’ve approached sport. And Ral Madrid has been way on the forefront of diagnostic type stuff. You know, getting people to wear bio feedbacks type devices. And so I was a part of a team that came in to develop Al Madrid’s Peak Performance system. And so like working with like Christian Ronaldo and, and those guys, but that’s who ultimately wanted to buy it and own, own the IP that I had.
RV (17:17):
Okay. So they just,
TH (17:17):
So the deal, the deal that I struck with them was they can buy it and then and, and they didn’t care about any of the revenue. They just wanted to own it. And, and so all those other basically contracts that I had it was a two year out. They could, the German soccer federation could continue to use it for two more years. I got to con I got to keep it for my own personal use though as well.
RV (17:44):
So when you sold it, you basically maintained like your own global license to use it and train it however you want it?
TH (17:50):
No, not global license. I could use it for one on one clientele. Cause I had built up such a big name in sport. Like, you know, when Kobe Bryant is one of your clients and you helped him build out the black mamba, you know, and, and your, my entire world was built around referability. So the only way that you could get to me to work with me one on one was you had to be referred by a present client or past client. And so I could use it for 1 0 1 stuff. That was, that was the only thing I really cared about. Yeah. I
RV (18:16):
Got that. So, and did they approach, so did they approach you about it, I guess? Or did you approach them like they
TH (18:22):
Say No, cause I was already work. Yeah, I was already working with them. The relationship is so strong. They see its impact, you know, and like when you think about the frustrations that all of us can have around wanting to achieve any sort of goal or mark of excellence in some sort of discipline, whether it’s marketing or whatever. And we’ve all been handed bits and pieces to things when someone comes along and they actually have a well defined complete and codified system of dealing with a whole athlete, which then also permeates at the team level. It’s so refreshing. And when you think about from now that program director side of things, or the head coach or the gm, they’re like, this allows me to not have to go out and acquire 10 other people to do this. I got one stop, like it was a full meal deal type thing.
TH (19:13):
And that was always my goal was to like continuously develop it. I was the first, like back when I started sports psychology was the term that was used. And we were the first company to hire three neuroscientists to come onto our team. We were the first ones to dive into the actual science because when people actually know anything about psychology or psychiatry, out of all the scientific disciplines, it’s the least sciency. It’s the most theoretical. And we were the first ones to start really diving into the science of it. And so that’s just because I come from a farm and ranch, you know, my dad has phrases like, well that dog won’t hunt, which is basically a, you know, a barometer. And I found a ton of it in, and I still find a ton of it in the self-help, personal development, you know, all that kind of world space. People are still spouting off stuff that was written 70 years ago that is categorically, categorically proven to either be false or very ineffective. There are way smarter ways to go about achieving some level of mastery or success than what, so
RV (20:20):
Did you have a lot of employees when you sold this? Or was it really just like, it was the ip It was basically a IP and some trademarks and that was,
TH (20:26):
I kept it super lean all the way. So at my, at my max for the peak athlete, we had seven team members.
RV (20:34):
Yeah. Seven. Yeah. Uhhuh. Okay. So then, so then tell us about the next ones. This is fascinating. So the next one, so that’s really like an IP business. You’re basically selling your methodology to someone who just says, we love it, we believe in it, we want it, we wanna own it.
TH (20:51):
Done. Yeah. So, so this ties into again, your personal brand world. So here I am speaking on stages. A lot of times the people in your audience are not target markets for you, but they like the topic that you have. So here I am talking to athletes and sports teams and invariably, once you start rising through the ranks of sport, a lot of times the only people who can afford to keep their athlete in more elite levels is people that have got some money in their pocket. And one of the things that started happening was, I’d get people coming to me afterwards and say, listen, I loved what you just said about you know, the Traian athlete or developing mental toughness or inner game stuff or emotional resiliency and, you know, but I was thinking the entire time, these are all the same issues I’ve got on my team in my business or my team or department in the government.
TH (21:47):
And so people would say like, could you do the same thing for my company? And for the first couple of times I’d say, no, you know, I don’t really know. And that was maybe, maybe the immaturity of my entrepreneurship. A great entrepreneur would’ve, would’ve went. Yeah, absolutely. And so I said this to one of my mentors. You talked about Zig Zigler. Jim Roan was one of my mentors. He was actually my first. Oh cool. I met him when I was 21. And I actually know some funny stories about Jim and Zig behind the scenes too. But Zieg always got very frustrated with the fact that Jim was terrible at returning phone calls
TH (22:36):
So what I then started was a company called No Limits Coaching and Consulting, which was geared towards performance and leadership training and coaching for the corporate and government world. Okay. And I used, again, just speaking to kind of build that up, it was almost like a little side hustle thing I think for me to say yes to. Ultimately though, that one ended up becoming bigger than the sports one, cuz corporate can spend way more money. And it’s actually what forced me to do licensing because I wasn’t able to devote as much time anymore to, to the peak athlete as much. So it’s a great example of how constraints are actually great powers of invention for you because with that, I ended up, because the peak athlete when I ended up selling it was the world’s largest mental game coaching and peak performance company in revenue and in number of people that we served.
TH (23:31):
Cuz we did well over 2 million athletes in total coming through our training programs back then. So No Limits. My first client was actually the Canadian government. They were, cuz that was Rick came up to me at the end of one of my small little talks of 30 kids and asked me. And so I just simply took the ip. And this is a good example of taking it into just a new market. The product never changed that much, you know, change out some lipstick and some eyeshadow on it, right. 20% of it just to make sure it’s customized to that audience. But human performance is human performance. It doesn’t matter if it’s really on the field over here or on the court and or whether it’s in the boardroom or sitting at your desk. Performances. Performance is performance. And that’s, that’s how I started to grow that business. And,
RV (24:22):
But you had sold the, you had sort, you had sort of sold this ip, so like the certain visuals and labels and all those things, you just have frameworks to like, you have to change that, but the principles are the same and the you can’t, you can’t just, like nobody owns principles.
TH (24:38):
Yeah. No one owns principles, but the moment you put something into a shape, you can trademark it. So circles, triangles and squares are your best friend in in our world. So if, if you have steps, if you have processes, you can’t trademark those, but you can trademark things like, so I’ve got one, people can go to it and it’s, it’s a good learning lesson. So my, my entrepreneurial performance training company 90 day year. So if you go to 90 year.com and there’s one called the Five Stages of Business, that hierarchy model, it’s like almost like Maslow’s Hierarchy needs my five stages of business that is a trademark piece of IP that cannot be replicated, reproduced without the express written consent of me and my company.
RV (25:27):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (25:28):
And so I’m a very big protector of ip. I’m actually well known for it in, in kind of our world. Like you, you don’t, you don’t touch my stuff.
RV (25:38):
So let’s talk about that. Okay. So, okay, so these are the three companies. So you have the sports company, then you have the leadership company. Yeah. Who’d you sell the leadership company to
TH (25:47):
Chevron.
RV (25:48):
What?
TH (25:49):
Yeah, so I did a speech in San Antonio, Texas. It was a leadership event. And just so happened that this guy Ken was, who was the executive VP at Chevron, came up to me and they were dealing with a major issue with developing a workforce. That was a big divide between the seniors and the juniors because in the 1980s there was no investment in the oil and gas space. So they had something called the big crew change, which was all these people who were senior were gonna be leaving with all of the intellectual property of how to run a, you know, oil and gas or energy company. And they had no one to backfill with. And they’d been trying to fix it for a decade, but no one was coming together. And he came to me and said, I think you’re the guy who can do this.
TH (26:36):
And I was like, I’ve never been in your space. I mean, I grew up on a farm and ranch and I know the gas world about as much as anyone driving by a, a pumping rig. And I said no at first. And then he convinced me with maybe a little bit more money. And I also realized I was, the opportunity was gonna be incredible cuz I was gonna be sitting down with the CEOs and presidents in sometimes even leaders of countries around the world getting this big project done. And ultimately they ended up buying that leadership and performance training system that I had.
RV (27:10):
So was it very similar? They’re basically buying a set of frameworks and, and visuals and methods and phrases and charts and tables
TH (27:20):
And, and a train the trainer system that could be easily deployed towards remote, you know, areas around the world. Exactly.
RV (27:27):
Yeah. So, so, so the train the trainer thing is interesting. So basically you have to, it’s almost like you have two things to build. You have to build the thing and then you have to build the thing that trains people to teach the thing. Exactly.
TH (27:40):
Yeah. So you’ve got, and the easiest way to think about it is, here’s how you would do it is if you train it, then record yourself going through why you trained it the way that you trained it. And then I would take that and then I would take that transcript and then I would just go make my edits into it. And when you start to like, learn more about facilitation skills, how to be a great facilitator, the first thing that I learned in my, my own growth as a, you know, person in this space in my own career was how unimportant sometimes the content was.
TH (28:19):
Hmm. We all try to overwhelm people with lots of content and what’s more important is getting people traction and momentum. Because most people’s experience of almost all courses and training programs is they never did implement anything. But if you’re the one who even got them from 0.1 to 0.2 or you know, A to B, let alone z cuz we’re all thinking about, I’m gonna get you to Z but that’s, you imparting your own desires and motivations onto the one learner. And all some people want is just a, a micro improvement even. So anyways, that’s just, you know, when you learn good facilitation skills, you learn that, you know, not to overwhelm people with content, content is, is very important.
RV (29:05):
So your buyer came up, your buyer in that scenario came out very similarly. They were someone that saw you in a speech, they became a fan, you develop relationship. They, they become a customer basically as a customer. They go, man, we like it. We believe in it, we want it, we don’t want else to have this. Here’s a check and we’ll take that from you.
TH (29:25):
That’s right.
RV (29:27):
Yeah. I love that. I freaking love that. Yeah. So then, so then the third one is an entrepreneurial coaching company.
TH (29:35):
Well that’s my, that’s my current one. That’s the third one was another one that happened in about a six month time span after I had sold the leadership company. I still had a bunch of intellectual property that was left over and I was kind of just looking for my next thing to do while I was still,
RV (29:54):
They didn’t want, like they didn’t, they didn’t wanna, that
TH (29:57):
Didn’t need didn’t serve their needs. Yeah. Didn’t serve their, you know, the market of who they had. So then I went and sold that last little bit to which, which now getting to your point of trying to find a buyer, this was me going out and finding a buyer. And I, what, what I did was I pinged about, I think it was probably 18 different friends in the industry and said, Hey, I have this piece of like training material. It would most likely be best for this industry, this type of, you know, client, customer, do any of you know anyone who would be interested in, in purchasing it? And a friend reached out right away from the self-defense market and, and said this stuff would be outstanding in for a friend of mine. And then they made the connection and, and that was how it sold. And, and Rory, this is actually a real, this is something I talk about a lot to all of our mentoring clients as well. The hardest part about this business model, everyone says it’s so easy and, and they’re wrong. It’s not, coaching is not as easy as everyone says it is.
RV (31:05):
TH (31:05):
No, coaching is very, everyone says it’s so easy because it doesn’t take any inventory. You don’t have to buy something and it’s gotta be on a ship that comes over and sits in a warehouse somewhere. So it’s taking up cash flow or you know, something like that. But, you know, building any business where you’re building the product and the marketing at the same time is very, very challenging. And so one of the things that I had done early on was I learned about licensing. And so that’s what I did was I went out and bought up and I licensed other people’s training from them to make me go faster so I could go out and impact more people. So you know, my worst decisions in my career have always been based on ego. You know, I needed to do it to satisfy my own ego needs and my best decisions were all ones where I I didn’t try to do it on my own. I went and I, you know, whether it’s license something or I outright just buy it from someone their own ip. Cuz you can buy information for a lot of people don’t know how to value things. And
RV (32:08):
Well I wanted to ask you about that. Like how do you, how do you go about valuing this? Right? So I mean, let’s say somebody’s listening right now and they’re like, man, I’ve been in the mortgage industry for 30 years. I got the training manual, da da da. Like I got the whole thing. And I mean, I, the way that I think about a business is, you know, and I think the, the, yeah. My, my undergrad was accounting, right? And so I process it from a very financial, it’s like, it’s a, it’s a present value of a future stream of estimated cash flows. Mm-Hmm.
TH (33:16):
That’s exactly right. Yeah. And so sometimes people are looking at speed, okay, does this thing, is this thing gonna make us go faster or is this thing gonna make us, or is this thing gonna make, give us a a competitive advantage over other people that was real madrid’s play with with my stuff because they were building up this university and now they didn’t have to go build curriculum, hire other people to put it together, try and get people to collaborate together who have very strong opinions on things, know it has to be this way and this way and and that way. That’s always the challenge about bringing, you know, anyone who’s a subject matter expert on something together is you bring seven together in a room and you got a lot of times seven different opinions on how it should be done or could be done.
TH (34:00):
So you’re avoiding political hassle then as well. And you get to monetize it tomorrow. That was, that was what Ri Madrid could go into. A Chevron wasn’t caring about monetization, they were caring about actually the big massive problem that they had, which was this big crew change. And so, so that was speed, then speed to mitigating the problem that they had. So the way that I think about IP and trademarks, this is just a rough number, but it’s born fruit for me three times for every trademark that you own, it’s a worth about a quarter of a million dollars to your business. Your business is value if you, the moment you add a trademark to your company. Now there’s some conditions to this, which I’ll explain, but it’s gonna add $2,000 in valuation to your business. And now if you are in the coaching space of let’s say goddess energy, let’s just say, you know, and there’s no knock against that.
TH (35:01):
There are some people who are do quite well in that space, but that’s not a big market. That’s a market that you actually have to create with your marketing. Cuz no one wakes up and says, I want to be a goddess today. But there’s other people who wake up and they go, man, I am sick and tired of trying to fight so hard for clients, I need a stronger personal brand. Now they might not say it exactly language that way, but personal branding is quite a large market. Alright? So, you know, if you know Brand Builders Inc goes out and takes a look at their IP and readjusts it and makes it more trademarkable and registers it, and you have 10 of those pieces you just added, even if you have no clients, that’s two and a half million dollars worth of valuation
RV (35:54):
And, and to do this process. So each one you’re saying is maybe roughly valued at 250,000. Yeah. How much does it cost? Cuz you, if you create it, you gotta hire a lawyer, you gotta fill out some paperwork, you gotta file, do some filing, you gotta wait for some approval, you have to like answer questions, go back and forth, and then one day the,
TH (36:17):
It’s not that, it’s, it’s, it sounds super hard to a lot of people. I thought it was exactly like that to Rory the first time I did it. And then I
RV (36:24):
Was actually describing that like, it’s pretty easy. Like, it’s like these are a few very simple tacticals. It’s a, I mean, is there more to it? Well,
TH (36:32):
The, the answer the answer for me and you, I mean, I send everyone to the same lawyer that’s been doing it for me for a long, long time, and he’s been, he’s, he’s literally specializes just in our space, Peter you know, based outta New York and, you know, yeah, I think I I I even forget how much it costs me anymore, but I think it’s probably somewhere around 2,500 bucks, you know, from start to finish with the different people who are involved. Very little time on my end to get it done. But, you know, someone else can go and do all the filings themselves and it’ll cost them a few hundred bucks.
RV (37:05):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (37:06):
RV (37:39):
And what if you find out that, like what if you find out what if you find out that somebody created something after you, so like, let’s say that you have created this thing, it’s been in use and now somebody else has it. If they got the trademark first, does that prevent you from basically getting it? No.
TH (37:59):
No, because there’s I, I forget the actual technical term. It’s just on the,
RV (38:05):
It’s like a first, it’s like a first in use.
TH (38:06):
Yeah, exactly. It’s the word is in, there’s something in use. Yeah. But yeah, it’s, if it’s, if you’ve been, if you can prove that it’s been in use for a long, and it is happened with me a couple of times and we were able to prove on two different occasions that we had at in use first. I actually just won a lawsuit against Instagram because they were not giving me an Instagram handle and profile. That’s a trademark name of ours. And Instagram lost and they had to hand it over to me.
RV (38:33):
Take that Zuck. Yeah,
TH (38:36):
You don’t, you don’t win many of those battles
RV (38:44):
So they have to, they have to grant you the handle because you have the registered trademark of that. Absolutely.
TH (38:49):
Because the, the laws of the US trumped whatever their privacy policy in terms of use policy was on their site.
RV (38:57):
Uhhuh
TH (40:19):
I’ll never forget when Creative Comments came out, and then I had a few friends who jumped on it that were in it that had ip and I pinged both of them. And I said, you’re opening up a can of worms here. And like, cuz you can’t unsqueeze the toothpaste once you let your IP or your frameworks be open for anyone to use. Now again, good example is actually business model generation, what I think is one of the best books written in the last 30 years, our most important business books written in the last 30 years by good friend of mine a Smith Alexander Osterwalder. And, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a canvas, it’s a map of business models. Okay, well they, they opened theirs up for creative comments. So if you went and did a Google search for business model canvas or business model generation canvas, you’re gonna get back 36 million results of that image and that canvas being on different blogs and consultants websites around the world, well, a few years back, they wanted to try to stuff all that stuff back inside because they were now their business model changed and they were now running a lot of workshops.
TH (41:27):
Well, problem is, is there were a lot of other consultants out there running workshops off of their canvas. And that’s probably, if you were to factor it out, well over a hundred million in certifications and licensing that’s lost to that business because they could have certified those people in going out and using that canvas. And now they’re certified partners of the business model generation world. So when I say when you get back, going back to your world or idea of policing it, a I tell the story over and over and over again, it’s a part of my brand story. I tell the story of, you don’t touch our stuff. It took, I’ve got 19,000 plus hours on the field of play doing one-on-one coaching. That’s not counting the group and the speeches and the trainings I’ve done around the world, which now doubles that number.
TH (42:18):
Right? you don’t take my stuff and it’s not cease and desist that we send, we sue and we, the minimum amount you earn in America for IP infringement is quarter of a million dollars. Okay? Now we take that money and we donate. I don’t do it. So I can earn money. We take that money and we take off whatever the cost was and then we go and we donate it to one of our favorite charities. She’s the first, which helps young girls in third world countries put them through school. But all it took was a couple of those and people getting stung very hard by our team that we have an army of thousands of people, Rory, who ping us every week saying, Hey, I just saw someone in it looks like they’re using your, your thing. And, and a lot of times it’s not that, like, it’s not an infringement, but we have a lot of people, we found people who were giving away some of our course material as opt-ins and downloads and lead magnets for free. Well, that guy in particular, he’s one of the people who, this was about four years ago, five years ago now, quarter million dollars he lost.
RV (43:29):
Interesting. So then you just, because, because it’s, because it, it is actually protected by a trademark. You’ve got the right to do that. And so you absolutely, you just file a suit and they’re either, I guess, and so they either have to settle with you or they have to stop using it or, or
TH (43:46):
No. Like, no, it’s, it’s, no, they, Rory, it’s, it’s so obtuse and you know, whatever other term can come up right now. But to think that someone isn’t doing it maliciously, they’re doing it malicious, they know what they’re doing, we go to the end, we finish it with them. Interesting. There is no appol, I’m so sorry, I didn’t know what I was doing. And no, there’s none of that. There’s none of that. That’s why like for me, like attribution, it costs you nothing to say, I heard this amazing quote in the book, take the Stairs, or I saw Rory Vaden speak on stage and he says something that was an absolute truth. Rent is due every single day, you know, whatever the full quote is right? No one’s gonna remember that you like, it doesn’t cost you anything to sanitation. I mean, I’ve had people come to me and say like, did you have to name drop the 35 people? And I’m like, well that was their quote
RV (44:48):
Was their citing the citing the So you’re
TH (44:50):
Citing yourself. Yeah. And I am, I’m standing on the shoulders of so many amazing people that help me get to where I am. I’m not gonna dishonor, you know Harvey Dorfman as someone who was so critical to my success when it was his idea that I was just sharing up there
RV (45:05):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (45:05):
RV (45:07):
Yeah. So yeah, this idea, eye
TH (45:10):
Opening, I get it. Like it pains you, it pains you. And this is my problem with people who don’t understand this space. People think that just because it’s words or it’s a picture that anyone else can go and do it. No. If you walked into a sports store and you took a pair of soccer cleats off the shelf and tried to walk up with it, it’s, it’s not shocking that you would get dinged for that. Well, you can’t walk into my intellectual property storehouse and take my thing off the shelf and go pass it off as your own. It’s just not gonna happen.
RV (45:43):
Uhhuh. yeah. Yeah. Well this is eye opening, man. I mean, I, my my Ted talk which is probably the most organically viral thing that we’ve ever had is few, few million views. Yeah. It’s all based around a diagram that I created called the Focus Funnel. And my guess is focus funnel is probably trademarked by someone, but that visual is, if you Google it, it’s everywhere. And you, you know, it’s like all over the place. It’s cuz millions of people have seen that, seen that talk, but we don’t have a trademark on it. Mm-Hmm.
TH (46:57):
Well, I was gonna say, I was gonna say like, so the number that I’ve typically found in a business that’s more mature like yours and that’s, there’s no secret as to why I say I’ve got 44 registered trademarks in our name right now is because the average really well designed program has about 40
RV (47:17):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (47:42):
And, and bigger companies like private equity companies, that’s what they’re gonna look at. They’re gonna, that’s gonna, cuz everyone wants to sell their customer list or their revenue or whatever and you know, people don’t realize that you’re being plugged into a larger ecosystem and yeah, it’s, it’s funny cuz we’re talking about this topic, it’s not something I typically ever get interviewed on. Yeah.
RV (48:02):
That’s why I wanted to ask you about this
TH (48:04):
RV (48:40):
Yeah. Well that is, yeah, that, I’ll say that, that has shaken me more than a couple times where I’m going, this person is basically telling a real, like almost verbatim from something that I posted three months ago, three months ago. And I’m like it’s hard to go. Yeah. You know, is it the same? But it’s like, it’s so close that you’re like, I think anybody would raise an eyebrow at, at this. And it’s anyways, that’s the,
TH (49:11):
Here’s, that’s, here’s here’s the reality. The public doesn’t care.
RV (49:15):
Yeah. The public doesn’t care.
TH (49:17):
Yeah. The public doesn’t care. And so, because I’ve had friends in me like man, because they think I’m spending so much time doing, so I’m like, I don’t spend any time doing this. This is, that’s the purpose of having a systems and processes in your business. And there’s a team of like, when it, when when there’s an inquiry that comes in from a former client or a client and they say, Hey, I think this person, my executive assistant passes that straight along to the legal side and then they just take care of it, I might become aware of it.
RV (49:44):
Mm-Hmm.
TH (49:44):
RV (50:05):
Interesting. Well buddy, this has been amazing. I know that you, and you’re doing a lot of work with entrepreneurs and things now, and we didn’t, I mean we went way over time, but like where, where should people go if they wanna plug into what you got going on?
TH (50:19):
So Todd herman.me is my kind of home base on the internet and that has links going out to all the different other, you know, whether it’s my book, the Alter Ego fact and and whatnot there, or entrepreneurial stuff. But I know you got a big coaching audience too, and I’m scaling up a, a coaching platform to help coaches grow and serve their their people. Because what people don’t under the hardest part about this business isn’t necessarily the marketing side, it’s actually the delivery side. Because our model is all about if you’re a coach, you are, you’re actually getting paid to help someone transform in whatever way. Whether it’s building a new skill, you know, reaching a new outcome, finishing a project or even, you know, deeper emotional transformations that might be happening. And the thing that actually grows this business is actually client success. It is not marketing like everyone thinks it is, it is client success cuz that activates referrals, retention, and testimonials. And so we’re building out a platform and we, we’ve built it out. We’ve got some, we’ve got thousands of people onto the platform. Tony Robbins company came onto it as well. And yeah, so that’s what I’m excited about right now. And that’s up coach.com.
RV (51:31):
That’s cool. So up coach and it’s, it’s basically like a, a tool for helping coaches manage all their clients and like track like the progress and
TH (51:39):
All that. And their clients can log in, you can put courses in there, you can track their habits, you can add tasks to them or manage projects. Like there’s, you can put all your worksheets right inside of it so that you’ve got visibility into them, actually whatever they’re writing instead of it being a Google doc or a PDF download as well.
RV (51:56):
Really cool. Yeah, really cool. All right, well we’ll drop you, we’ll drop you back link, we’ll drop you an SEO backlink them as well. You will have the full authority of brand builders group.com backlinking. So Todd, man, this is great. I’ve, I just, I I I’ve always just, I learned so much from talking with you and it’s always just such a sharp perspective and just really helpful man. So I appreciate you going off script here and like sharing with us. Like this is definitely an interview like no other that we’ve ever had on the show. And that’s
TH (52:29):
Well good. We zagged we zagged today. So that’s cool with
RV (52:33):
Me. Yeah, I love it, man. So everyone make sure that you go follow Todd, send him some comments, send him some love. And brother, we just, we’re, we’re grateful for you and we and we wish you the best.
TH (52:46):
Cheers man. This has been great.
Ep 341: Building Your Side Hustle with Nick Loper | Recap Episode
AJV (00:02):
Hey everybody, and welcome to my recap episode of my conversation with Nick Loper from The Side Hustle Nation. And y’all, we covered a lot of grounds
AJV (00:54):
Number one how to use your podcast as an income stream if it’s not from advertising a revenue or sponsorship. So I thought this was really great and not something that we haven’t heard or even talked about before. But really just such a great reminder to everyone that a podcast serves so many great causes for your business. One it’s a great way to build your content. It’s a, it’s a great way to create that consistent relationship. It’s a great way for you to build trust with your audience. There’s so many great added benefits of doing that where it’s not just a static post on one of the social media platforms. It gives you an extended opportunity. It’s like your own little masterclass with experts, right? And that’s where this particular benefit came into play on my conversation with Nick is don’t forget that hosting a podcast has a really great strategic networking side to it.
AJV (01:57):
And I’ll just give you this a quick example. I could call any of you today and say, Hey, I’d love to talk to you about building your personal brand. You wanna grab coffee? Most of you, 85% of you are not gonna have available time on your calendar to come listen to a potential sales pitch over coffee. With me. That would be my assumption, right? That is a sales call, that is a sales pitch, that is a sales invitation. At the very least, it is a mild version of something that might lead to a sales conversation. But what if I called and said, Hey, I think you’ve got amazing expertise to share with an audience that could really benefit hearing from you. Would you be willing to come on to my podcast as a guest? Most of you would at least consider that
AJV (02:58):
Interview, you get to know me. I get to know you. We learn about each other’s businesses. It’s the beginning of really a potentially beautiful relationship. And I can’t tell you how often at the end of podcast interviews, how often guests will say, Hey, I’d really love to learn more about brand Builder’s Group one day. Or even if I’m on their show, they’re like, Man, I really do wanna learn more about what it is that you do. It is an amazing way to build fast friendships, fast relationships and a very mutually beneficial way. And I mean, mutually in a three-pronged way, beneficial for you, beneficial for them, and beneficial to all of the listeners who get to participate. And an awesome conversation that has lots of value. So there are lots of different ways that you can truly monetize your podcast in addition to advertising and sponsorship revenue.
AJV (03:48):
So don’t forget there are so many different opportunities to monetize your podcasts, both in the, both in the short term and in the long term. So that was the kind of the first big takeaway as what are those additional benefits that you don’t always see on the front end when it comes to building and growing your podcast. Second one is this concept of tacking on yourself to an existing product or service that you really love, that you find value in, or perhaps you even have expertise in, right? So great example, right? And so this is not necessarily only tied to SAS products, software as a service but it could be, you know, actual service providers. It could be all different types of things. But I’ll just give you a couple of examples. I, I don’t do this, this is not my side hustle, but it’s a good example of something that could be a side hustle, right?
AJV (04:44):
It’s like I use QuickBooks for our accounting at Brand Builders Group. I have gotten pretty savvy in QuickBooks and have learned a lot of really efficient shortcuts on how to make QuickBooks really easy to use for the non-financial person, right? So I could be teaching those types of things in a course or teaching it to companies, or I could be, you know, doing content videos on that. I’m not, and I’m not going to, but QuickBooks is something I use. I find it a very valuable tool, happily would be willing to promote it to people, right? And would love to get referral fees. I feel the same way about Gusto. Gusto is our HR and a payroll service provider. I think they do a great job 99% of the time. Really happy, very pleased. They have easy refer links right there.
AJV (05:37):
It’s like, I would be happy to refer that and if opinion anyone was like, Hey man, do, would you ever come in and just teach us how to get it set up really quick? I could do that. Same thing. Here’s another great example of something I’m just like really into right now is in Inspirado, the travel booking site game changer in terms of the elevated Airbnb or V V R B O experience, except for they will also take care of all of the concierge services, your flights, your hotels the ground transportation experience is dining. It’s like, oh my gosh, like, yes, please. I click on one little thing that says refer afin to have a friend. I have an affiliate link. It’s like, I’m gonna be promoting that thing like crazy. Anyone who talks about travel, I’m like, I got something for you.
AJV (06:21):
So there are part of it where it’s like, yes, I just love these products. I use these products and I wanna promote them. And then there’s another added co component that Nick talked about where it’s like, there’s a part of it where that’s just being an affiliate partner and you’re just tacking yourself onto existing products and services that you really love, that you use, that, you know, provide value and you’re helping other people make better decisions faster, right? There are tons of financial service tools out there. There’s FreshBooks, there’s QuickBooks, there’s, you know, other stuff. I don’t know, there’s a lot of them. Zero. But I use QuickBooks, so I’m gonna promote it. It’s like I know how to use it. I know how to help you. I know how to guide you. I’ve learned the efficiency of using QuickBooks. Same thing within Spra or Gusto or Thinkific or all the other software platforms that we use.
AJV (07:10):
So there’s a part of me going, Hey, I know how to use this. I can, I can vouch for it, I use it, I pay for it, I’m gonna promote it, and there’s a whole nother level of going. And then I could also teach you how to use it, how to get better at it, how to improve, how to become more efficient, how to set it up faster. If I wanted to add that on as a service, which is what we talked about as software with a service, right? So I think there’s a really interesting way of like, how many of us use tools that we actually really love and how many of those actually provide referral links, affiliate links, because they know that you, the user, the customer, assuming you’re a, a happy one, are the best people to promote that out into the world and they’re willing to pay you to do that.
AJV (07:57):
And then like, and on top of that, I could actually help you implement it quicker and faster, cuz I’ve done it. Two simple easy things to think about if you were trying to create new income streams so that you can get to doing that full-time thing that you love. So I felt that was really interesting. Software with a service was the concept. The next one is, I love what he said is, you know, it’s been said kind of out there that, you know, the first step in any really successful online marketing is like that path to a thousand true fans. And a true fan is basically classified defined as anyone who would be willing to spend roughly a hundred dollars with you a year, right? That’s a true fan. And there is that concept of like, how do you get that initial base of a thousand people, a thousand fans who’d be willing to spend some sort of substantial amount of money with you, even if it’s a one time investment.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Versus, well, how do you take that 1000 fans and go, that’s great and that’s cool, but how do I take that and create 10 true customers who would be willing maybe to spend a thousand dollars a month with me, not just a hundred dollars a year with me? So it’s the difference between how clear on you, how clear are you on your audience, right? So maybe you’ve got that a thousand true fans and they’d be willing to spend a hundred bucks. But what, what do you need to do to figure out who are those 10 customers, those 10 clients who you could expand with, who love you, who love what you do, who love what you provide? And it’s like they would spend a hundred dollars, 500, a thousand, 5,000, 10,000. Who are those people and what are you doing to land and expand and not just create fans, but create really loyal customer relationships with a few people that you can go deep and wide with.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
So yes, it’s great to have a large covering surface fan fandom, but then also how do you go deep and wide with a fewer people who would be willing to spend more with you, to get more of you, right? So simple in theory, not always easy in practice, but a great thing for us always to be paying attention to. I know the temptation often is how do I get more, right? How do I get more fans get more customers? How do I get more followers, get more likes, get more engagement? It’s more, more, more and more. And sometimes more isn’t always better, right? What if you had less people that had deeper relationships were able to go further within, they wanted more of you, they spent more money with you, you had more concentrated focus in a more narrow lane.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
More is not always better. Contrary to American beliefs, sometimes more is not always better. So how can you find that very niche audience that would spend more money with you because you know exactly the service that you provide, the benefit you provide, and you know exactly who needs it, and that’s who you go out and find, and that’s where you spend your time right? Now, last but not least I thought this was just a really interesting, this is a bonus. I already shared my three tips and I promised to kind of like keep these like roughly around 10 minutes, and I know I’m right up on it. But I thought this was really interesting and I asked him at the very end of our interview, if you wanna go check it out, listen to the whole thing, which I always recommend. But if you are just starting out, you’re trying to figure out what is this business that I wanna start? Or what is this side hustle that I wanna start because I do wanna start my own business one day. I do wanna be an entrepreneur which is not for the faint of heart, but what, how do you figure that out? And he said, you know, you could do this thing where
Speaker 4 (11:52):
It’s like, like you, you know, figure out what are my skills, what are my passions and what would people be willing to pay from me, right? Or he said there, there’s another really easy thing to do. And he calls it a suck list,
Speaker 4 (12:41):
So I’m always like walking up and down. They like, Oh, has their feet under there? Someone’s under there. I can’t never tell who’s in what. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, I don’t wanna walk back. And by the time I’m down the bottom, the first one came out and someone already took the stall. It’s a thing. It’s a thing. And I was in Sydney, Australia here recently. Now this was fascinating. In the airport, I looked up and there are green lights and red lights above every single stall. So as soon as you walk into the bathroom, you immediately know what is green, which is what’s available and what’s red, which means it’s not available. And I can, like, I have never been in such an efficient bathroom in my whole life. No lines, no standing around. People were in out being bang, boom. It was awesome, right?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I’ve had this problem for decades, but never had I thought, and we should put lights above the stalls, but perhaps just for a minute, it would be worthwhile taking around a notepad in a list and going, What could be better? And what is my idea to make it better? And create your own little suck list of what sucks and what ideas do you have to make it better? And that does not mean you have to go create something. Perhaps there is already something out there that was specifically designed for this, right? If I can figure out who the manufacturer is of this, I’m gonna give it to every restaurant, every airport. I’m like, how, how come the world does not know about this? Have they not been to this airport with these bathrooms? Everyone needs to have these, right? It’s like I’m an advocate, I’m a fan, right?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So perhaps it already exists, and this goes back to one of our previous points. What already exists that you can just tack yourself onto to build some of that, you know, what I call fan money, right? Also known as affiliates referral fees, or even add yourself on as a service. So perhaps the takeaway from here is create your stuff list or your opportunity list and start making a list of what is that next business or my first business or that side hustle that I can start. Like is, I know that this is a problem and I know there’s a way to make it better. And here’s what it’s so there is my recap from my conversation with Nicker. Go check it out on the influential personal brand and we’ll catch you next time. See you later.
Ep 340: Building Your Side Hustle with Nick Loper
AJV (00:02):
Hi everybody, This is AJ Vaden here, and welcome to another episode on the Influential of Personal Brand. I’ve got a new friend here today, and we’re gonna be talking about how to build and grow your side hustle. And before I formally introduce Nick Looper to the show, I want to tell you guys in advance why you need to stick away,
AJV (01:03):
And so we’re gonna talk about some different ideas with SAS products and how do you hit yourself to some of those so you’re not always trading time for money. And last but not least, we’re also gonna just talk about maybe if you’re one of those people who doesn’t have a side hustle, you don’t have differentiated income streams, but maybe you want some, what are some of the coolest, quickest, fastest things that you can be doing to build your side hustle right now? So without further ado, let me introduce you to Mr. Nick Loper
NL (01:57):
Thanks for having me honored to be here. Yeah,
AJV (02:00):
No, we’re so excited and I’m really super excited to talk to you today because I actually, as I told you before we started, I’ve spent quite a bit of time doing some online stalking of trying to get some really good criteria and some good topics to share with our audience. And so I just wanna help them get to know you. And how did you get into teaching people how to build their side hustle? And what is the side hustle that you’ve been up to?
NL (02:29):
Yeah, this whole project started from this desire to build a more personally branded project, and it’s been, you know, probably the best decision that I’ve ever made. You know, starting with, you know, $50 mic corner of a living room, let’s see if anybody will tune into this stuff. And it’s been, you know, completely life changing from that little experiment back in 2013. Prior to that, the main side hustle for me was this comparison shopping site for footwear. That was the main business. That was the thing that let me quit my corporate job and start and I kind of un naively thought like, Look, I could just be the dude who sells shoes on the internet. Like that would be my thing. It had like a lot of businesses, a finite lifespan and was really grateful to have started several other side hustles on the side for that, including the blog and podcast, including lots of projects that didn’t work out. One of the other ones that did okay was a virtual assistant directory and review site started in 2011, a couple years before Side Hustle Nation and sold that one in 2020. But those are some of the projects that I’ve been working on and really grateful to be involved in the online space for quite a while and playing this personal brand game that we’re all we’re all working towards.
AJV (03:46):
Oh man, I love that. And so just briefly, what, what were you doing with this shoe comparison site? How on God’s green Earth did you come up with that idea and what made you wanna do it?
NL (04:01):
Oh, so this dates me a little bit. So, comparison shopping is not what it once was, but if your listeners are old enough to remember in the early days of the internet, you know, you would start your product searched on Google and instead of on Amazon and you would, you know, figure out where you could find the best price on whatever it was that you were looking for. And so there would be big sites like Price Grabber and NexTag and shopping.com in those days. And my idea was like, well, what if we really niched down and said, we’re just gonna do this for shoes? Cause I’d interned at a, you know, online footwear retailer in Seattle, like in college that started as, you know, a family owned single location, brick and mortar shoe store, that in the early days of the internet they had this cra you know, what, what would, what would happen if we put some of our inventory up online? Is anybody gonna buy this stuff? And by the time I came on board as their, you know, you know, low paid marketing intern, like of course the online side had blown up way more than their single location brick and mortar shop. And so that was my first exposure to affiliate marketing and pay click advertising and SEO and e-commerce, all this stuff that was really important. So taking what I learned there and then applying it to my own affiliate operation after the fact.
AJV (05:11):
Oh man,
NL (05:50):
Yeah, a couple different ways to go about it. I mean, SAS is, is like the holy grail of business models, right? You know, create something once it’s all digital, it’s just ones and zeros out there on the internet and sell it over and over again, or get people paying you recurring for it. That’s like, that’s, you know, that’s it. You made it right. But super complicated, especially if it’s your first business to deal with the development and the validation and everything that goes into that and the support. So a couple different alternatives. One is white labeling that software or reselling that software. We had an episode on this in the spring that has actually done really well cause it was kind of eye opening, you know, over the course of 500 episodes. So it was one that we really hadn’t talked about before, but the, in this case, the guy was looking at some like reputation management software, how to help small businesses get more reviews for Yelp, for Google, for Facebook.
NL (06:45):
And, you know, he would go out and sell those to small businesses under his own brand. And, you know, he had to, you know, he’d buy like, you know, the wholesale rate you know, number of seats for this software. You go and resell it at a marked up price and add this layer of management and customer support in between. I was like, Oh, that’s really interesting. Like, he wasn’t the coder, he wasn’t the creator of this thing, but he just took what somebody else had and went out and sold it. And the other you know, software with a service method that we call it is kind of piggybacking on the popularity of a popular software tool and establishing yourself, establishing yourself as a go-to expert on that software. And we’ve seen people do this with QuickBooks, with Asana, with you know, certain WordPress plug-ins.
NL (07:34):
Even even like Squarespace, like some big, sometimes like big softwares. Maybe it’s like Tailwind for, you know, Pinterest. Maybe it’s there’s tons of different ones. Canva. One of my favorites was Paul Miners who was on the show years ago. And what he would do he did this specifically for Asana, and then he did it for pipe drive, and I wanna say Zapier as well. Like, he’s kind of like, Hey, look, I know all this stuff. But he started creating these YouTube videos where he’d, you know, introduce himself, Hey, I’m Paul, I’m an Asana consultant, and today we’re gonna cover how to do blank, blank, blank in Asana, right? Mm-Hmm.
AJV (08:39):
Yeah. You know, actually I really love that. Subtle but really important shift in what you said. It’s software as a service or software with a service. And I think that’s a really unique component. And I can think of legitimately like 10 of some of our most valued vendors. That’s truly what they are. It’s like we have lots of software products that we use at Brand Builders group, but it’s typically it’s working with someone who specializes in that, so we don’t have to learn it in house. And that could be done with any product that you really love yourself, become an expert at it, and then it’s like you can be reselling the, you know, the product and then offering in that layer of consultancy expertise, customer service, et cetera.
NL (09:26):
Yeah, totally.
AJV (09:27):
Yeah, No, it’s it’s interesting. I think we we are keep resellers ourselves and so we use the CRM keep and we resell it and it’s like, we get asked all the time, Well, hey, can you just set this up for us? Right? Yeah. It’s like, no, we don’t do that
NL (09:59):
I love that. And that was I mean, you bring up Keep, you know, and we had people, you know, we’ll set up your funnel for you and keep slash Infusionsoft, or we’ll do it in active campaign or, you know, and after you do it, a handful of these you can kind of, you know, rinse and repeat the same basic templates too. Totally. So your hourly rate really starts to explode after that.
AJV (10:18):
Absolutely. It’s like, and that’s the thing, it’s like all of these software is, you really can create these templates. It’s like, if it’s this type of industry, here are the things you’re gonna wanna have. If you’re this type of business, these are the things you’re gonna have. And once you do it enough times, it’s like, you know what people need, and it is rinse and repeat and just a little bit of tailoring. That’s really fascinating. And I think there’s something kind of tied to that as well. And we talked a little bit about this before we started is how much affiliate marketing, marketing can also be a part of a pretty significant side hustle. And I’m curious to get your take on affiliate marketing and is it tied to e-commerce products, services? Like what do you see out there in terms of people making real money with affiliate marketing?
NL (11:05):
Yeah, so this has been my main source of income for, you know, probably 15 years, probably longer than 15 years. And it’s a, you know, it’s performance based marketing customer or rather, companies say, Hey, look, we could use some help selling our product or service. Here’s what we’re willing to pay. Here’s what we think a new customer is worth to us. And then they enlist affiliate affiliates like me to go out and help find those customers. It’s really a matter of creating content for that target customer and helping them make decisions. So one of the popular affiliate models that we’ve seen working lately, we call it the modern comparison shopping site, whereas like in my day, it was like very data you know, product catalog driven, you know, you know, very simple, not a lot of you know, insight or, you know, because there was hundreds of thousands of products, it was not a lot of like analysis and like, well, if you’re you, you have a narrow foot, you ought really, it’s like, there was none of that.
NL (12:02):
It was just like pulling in data and spitting back out prices. With the modern comparison shopping site, we seen some people doing really well with you know, very long tail search terms, like this product versus this product, this direct to consumer brand versus this direct to consumer brand. And creating the super in depth, you know, pros and cons, helping people make their decisions and guiding them towards like, Okay, based on your situation, this is the one that we think is best for you. The site that comes to mind is called fin versus fin.com, and they started reviewing FinTech products, and then they started reviewing like men’s health and wellness products. And then, you know, they’ve gotten even broader since then, but following that same basic template and what they’ve done that was kind of cool was like, you know, re almost like skating where the puck is going to say, Well, this company just received, you know, X million dollars in venture funding mm-hmm.
AJV (13:18):
Interesting. So what makes you someone that companies want to partner with? Like generally speaking, you know, it’s like, what would you say makes a really good affiliate partner where you actually do make money?
NL (13:32):
Well, it’s trust in relationship with your audience, and then it’s the ability to convert. It’s the ability to, you know, find the traffic that’s qualified and then pass that along. For me, it was kind of a long time in realizing that the podcast audience that I had through the Side Hustle Show and the blog traffic were not necessarily the same. And I always had assumed like, Hey, you know, blog of Pocket, you know, follow, follow me because I’m so interesting as it relates to the web traffic, it was so much more transactional. It was, you know, Googling something, I need to find an answer to this specific question, you know, answer that, and they’re kind of off and, you know, Sure. Try and capture them as an email subscriber. Try and get them to, you know, subscribe to the site, try and get them to download an episode or two.
NL (14:20):
But largely is like, Okay, how can I solve this person’s problem here and now? And it was leading into that, that started to really ramp up some of the affiliate revenue. Like I’ll give you the example. Like the, the typical podcast listener for me is very entrepreneurial. They’re in it for the long haul. They’re kind of like, you know, really to like build something that’s their own. They’re not the type of person who’s probably that attracted to signing up for DoorDash or delivering for Instacart or something, but for the blog reader or the website visitor who’s googling ways to make extra money, like, Oh, that may be a viable option for them. Mm-Hmm.
AJV (14:55):
NL (15:47):
Yeah. If the audience is small and they are paying attention to you as the influencer, you as the personal brand, you might pick, you know, the five or 10 tools that you really love that you feel comfortable recommending and almost designing product launches around them. Like, you know, even maybe it’s a three or four email sequence, or three or four social post sequence, really hying this up and talking about why they need this in their life. And one, you know, strategy may be like, Let, let’s play the substitution game. You’re probably currently using tool X, Y, or Z. Or maybe you’re just, you know, maybe you’re doing it yourself in Excel. Here’s why this solution is better, faster, cheaper. Right? And so you kind of position it in different ways. Here’s the frequently asked questions format, here’s the testimonials format you know, email blast that goes out.
NL (16:41):
And I think you can find a very low risk way to get started. You’re not spending months creating your own product or program, and you’re just, now the, the downside is you’re, you’re getting a percentage of revenue instead of the whole piece. So different trade offs, you have less control over what happens to those customers after you’re kind of sending them off into somebody else’s world, somebody else’s ecosystem, but definitely an attractive way to make, make some commissions, make some money without having to create your own product. And you can kind of hit the ground running pretty quickly with that.
AJV (17:12):
Yeah. So what I hear you saying is like, regardless if it was your business or you’re promoting someone else’s products and services, you gotta have your marketing game plan, You gotta have a launch plan, right? You gotta have a strategy of knowing how are you gonna promote this and what different tools are you gonna use to get this to the point of conversion for whoever is following you,
NL (17:30):
Right?
AJV (17:31):
Yeah. it’s, it’s so interesting because I think there’s this big promise of a lot of people going, Yes, I’m gonna make all my money, or just, you know, doing affiliate marketing and influencer marketing, but it’s like you said, that’s been your primary source of income for the last 15 years. So you’ve clearly figured something out that maybe the ordinary person trying to do this has not. What do you think you do that’s different than someone else that’s been so successful?
NL (18:01):
Well, there’s a lot to learn on the traffic side, especially the SEO side. It can be really, I mean, you can go as deep into the weeds a as you want. Both the shoe business and the virtual assistant business really captured kind of you know, bottom of the funnel traffic, like mm-hmm.
NL (18:45):
It would be, you know, this company versus this company or this virtual assistant company review. So they had already done a little bit of homework. They’re trying to figure out like, ah, are they legit? Can you, you know, can you point people in the right direction that way? But targeting in a lot of cases, some, you know, lower, lower in the funnel type of intent there mm-hmm.
AJV (19:33):
Yeah. No, I love that. And that’s actually a really great transition. Cause one of the topics I had on my list here are ideas on how to monetize a small podcast. Cuz I’m pretty sure at this point everyone and the brother and their sister has a podcast or wants to start I podcast. And it’s one of those things where so many people start it and not a lot of people continue with it because it’s a lot more work than you initially think to keep it going much less actually turn it into something that makes you money. So tips, ideas for how to monetize a small but mighty podcast.
NL (20:13):
Small but mighty. That’s the key. It doesn’t take a ton of listeners if they’re the right listeners. Right. And I’m still bullish on the future of podcasting just because I don’t know what the latest stats are. Like half the population doesn’t even listen to podcasts yet. It’s like, you mean you haven’t discovered the, the magic of OnDemand audio and whatever you wanna learn about, like, this is, this is so cool. So yes, lots of room still to grow in in the podcasting space. More competitive than ever, but also more money flowing into the space too. So monetizing a small podcast your best bets are not sponsorships, right? Where that’s very much a game of amplitude and frequency. How many people can you reach and how often you can reach them. And if you have a huge daily show, then yeah, it makes sense.
NL (20:57):
For a lot of people it’s going to be creating a, you know, private membership community to, you know, check that recurring revenue box. People want more, they want more of you in their life, but you, you know, you can’t realistically do one on one all the time. Like, here’s the private community. It could be the you know, higher ticket digital product. It could be the higher ticket you know, done for you consulting service. It could even be, you know, using the podcast as content-based networking to call up your ideal customer and just get ’em on the phone. Cuz we’ve had a couple friends of mine be like, Well what’s the first half an hour of any sales conversation anyway? It’s a lot like a podcast, you know, it’s like, well why don’t you just hit the record button and all of a sudden instead of a sales pitch you’re leading with now, hey, why don’t you come on my show? And as long as there’s value on both ends there, it’s only natural for that guest to turn around and be like, Oh wait. You know, What is it that you do again? Oh, you know, we could really use some help setting up our sales funnel or whatever it is that you do.
AJV (22:01):
Yeah, I think out of, you know, it’s like if I were to go back and look at all the different reasons that we’ve, we’ve had two different podcasts now, but all the different reasons that we initially said, why do we want a podcast? One of them truly was this truly natural relationship building and networking that occurs by just finding interesting people that you wanna get to know that you wanna learn about and inviting them on the show. Whereas I could have maybe reached out to a dozen of these people and maybe one of them would’ve taken a sales call or a coffee or a lunch, but at least 50% of them would accept a spot being interviewed on our podcast. And it’s, it is, it’s a strategic networking move. It’s a great way to just start that slow relationship build that may or may not, but may lead into a sale one day.
AJV (22:56):
But it’s that opening of, Hey, do you wanna grab coffee? Not really. You wanna be a guest on my show? Yeah, that sounds interesting. Tell me more about your show. But that, that alone is a really uniquely strategic angle, depending on right, what’s the, you know, what’s the benefit of them for coming on the show and everything. But I love that particular one. And then you, you mentioned the membership site and so any insights that you would share on what you think makes us successful membership site where you could convert a listener into a paying member? What do they want?
NL (23:35):
Yeah, so typically the membership site is content plus community and it’s often come for the content stay for the community. And so we’ve seen and depending on your niche, maybe you lean more heavily on one or the other. Like is this educational content that they’re after or is it community? So a couple guests recently, one was called On the Hard Days, it was a parenting podcast for neuro divergent kids or parents of neuro divergent kids. And that was the feedback that she got from her audience was like, I, I gotta know, other moms have to be in the same spot that I’m in. I just need some friends. I just need people to listen and vent to and get support and feedback. And the other one that was on the show recently was Jill from Sober Powered, which is a podcast about the science of addiction and, and trying to get and stay sober. And it was the same thing from her audience. It wasn’t like she was providing the educational content free through the podcast, but what her listeners wanted was more Jill, they wanted more her time, they wanted more community, and that’s what she ended up putting together with that and actually bring it on some guest experts once a month. And so that was kind of how she had hers structured.
AJV (24:50):
Yeah, I think just, it’s a great reminder to everyone who’s listening. It’s like, if you truly figure out who your audience is and then you serve them in a way that they need, they do want more of you, it’s like, you know, you, you become, like you said, it’s like you’re this trusted voice in their ear week after week. But to build any relationship, it takes consistency, it takes providing real value and it also make you gotta provide the real value to the right person. So it’s knowing who your audience is, which is where we started talking about this, even with seo, it’s like doesn’t really help unless you know exactly who you’re targeting. Same with paid media, but then also giving them what they want in an authentic way that only you can do it, right? That’s kind of the, the true equation of building a successful personal brand.
AJV (25:37):
It’s, you know, serving the right audience and doing it in a way that only you can do. So alright, so I’m tentatively watching the clock knowing that we only have about 10 minutes left. So I’m curious, one of the things that I just kinda had, you know, down here are two things that you said on our pre-call that I thought would be interesting and you said, you know, everyone always talks about a journey to a thousand clients or a thousand fans, but what about just making 10 true clients? And so I’d love to hear you just kind of like deep dive on, you know, it’s, it’s interesting cuz people often look at quantity as somehow this is the end all be all of what I’m trying to get to. And you made that comment of maybe it’s not a thousand fans or it’s just 10 really great true clients. So where’d that spare from? And I’d just love for you to share some insight on that.
NL (26:29):
You bet. So the Thousand True Fans is this essay from Kevin Kelly that is like now taken as internet business gospel that says, Hey look, you got a thousand true fans and true fans. He defines as somebody who supports your work to the tune of a hundred dollars a year. They, these are the people who like, you know, buy everything you put out, they, they come to your concerts, they spread the word about you, right? And, and that’s awesome to have that level of community and that level of support, but you know, only a, probably only a small percentage of the people following you are going to, you know, really check that true fan box. And so it’s like you gotta have, you gotta shoot for some pretty big numbers to get there. So what the guys from the Tropical NBA Podcast argue is like, well, what if you flip it? What if you say what if you aim for 10 true 10 true clients starting out, you get 10 true clients that each pay you a thousand bucks a month. Like you’re kind of in a similar revenue area as that thousand true fans and maybe more realistic to get to because now you can have one on one conversations. You can look people in the eye and say, Sign here. This is the service I’m gonna provide for you. And it’s just maybe more realistic for people starting out.
AJV (27:40):
Yeah, it’s so interesting that this came up. So literally over the weekend, my husband and I who are business partners were doing our annual business planning for 2023, which is unbelievable that it’s almost here. And one of our dear close friends, a former pastor of ours at our church had, you know, left ministry and is starting his own marriage counseling business with his wife, which has been their true passion for a really long time. And he had launched this course business selling these, you know, guide to a, you know, great marriage, whatever it was called, but for $39. And he was like, Nah, I just, I just gotta figure out how to sell it. Thousands of these. And we were like, Yeah, why, why do you need to sell thousands of these at $39 and how much work is that gonna take? Versus what if you just had 10 people paying you 500 bucks a month? And he was like, That’s a great question. But it is, you know, it’s, it is that, it’s that same thing that people always say, it’s like, I wanted, I want this product that just makes money while I sleep. And it’s like, Yeah, but you gotta sell a lot of product for that to stay consistently.
NL (28:53):
It really is. And you can think of it as a a value ladder or kind of like a different menu of service offerings. Like you can go buy, you know, Tony Robbins book for 10 bucks mm-hmm.
AJV (29:33):
Absolutely. I think for everyone it’s I think there’s this overarching temptation to listen to everyone of going, Yeah, make money while you sleep, build a course and make a million dollars. And I was like, I dunno how many people who are making courses make a million dollars consistently. But that’s a great option, right? And what we call a collapsible offer it’s a piece of the puzzle that for that consistency. Yeah, you don’t have to sell a lot of those in order to make it work long term. Alright, so my last question for you is for those of, for those of us out there who are listening to this show who go, All right, all right, what, this is what I need to do to start, you know, adding some income streams. I wanna do some side hustle stuff. I wanna expand on how the, all the different ways I’m making money, what would you say are the best three ideas for someone who’s just getting started on a side hustle?
NL (30:29):
Oh my goodness. Oh, I think you gotta start with pains and problems, right? Like the typical advice, you know, to find the, the perfect side hustle ideas to look at these like concentric circles, like well put your skills in this, in this circle and put your you know, hobbies and interests in this circle and then put like, you know, things you’ve been paid to do in this circle. And like the magical sweet spot in the middle is like, well that’s your unique side hustle idea. And the problem is for a lot of people it’s like, well my skills are over here and my hobbies and interests are way over here and like what I’ve been paid to do, like doesn’t overlap any of that stuff. And that’s super frustrating. And so what you have to do instead is kind of put on your pessimist hat for a little bit, which I normally like to stay more optimistic, but bear with me on this one.
NL (31:13):
So you open up just a blank notes app on your phone. I call it my what sucks list. And for, you know, a day a week, you know, a couple weeks, it is your job to write down everything that sucks, everything that you find annoying in your life, everything that you wish there was an easier way, everything that your spouse or partner is complaining to you about that your coworkers or neighbors are just kind of griping about. Because on the other side of those pains and problems and annoyances, like there might be a business idea solution. And it’s usually gonna take one of three forms, product, service, or content. And like, we’ll give the example of like a dirty house, a common common problem for me cuz I look around this room so there are, I could go out and buy cleaning products to address this pain and problem. I could go hire a cleaning service to address this pain or problem. Or I can go binge watch, you know, all the decluttering shows on Netflix or YouTube like how to organize and you know, make my space clean and stay that way. And so entrepreneurs are tackling that same problem from three different ways. And so that’s how I kind of recommend people go about that initial idea searching phase. Does that make sense?
AJV (32:23):
Absolutely. Actually, I really love that cuz I think most of us naturally go, I wish this was better. You know, at the, as soon as you started talking, it made me think about this. I was recently traveling overseas and I don’t know, I can’t speak for the men cuz I can only speak for the lady’s bathroom, but it’s always so annoying to go, I have to like, walk underneath all the, all the stalls and look underneath like who has feet where other legs never can tell what’s open, especially these long airport bathrooms. But while I was traveling overseas, this was in Sydney, Australia, I walked in and above every single stall was a red light or a green light.
NL (33:01):
Okay?
AJV (33:01):
And so as soon as you walked in, you just saw anything that was green was open, anything that was red was locked. And I was like, this is brilliant, this is so smart. It’s like created so much efficiency and it’s like, I can’t tell you for how many years, it’s like kind of just like looking underneath the stars, like totally creeping on people to go, well what’s, I don’t know, But same type of thing. It’s like, what a brilliant idea of going, duh, just put a red light in a green light over these stalls. So all the women coming in here can quickly and efficiently come in and out. But it’s like to the point that would’ve very much come from what do you wish was better? What sucks? Yeah, what are people always complaining about? What do you complain about? I think that’s awesome. I think that’s not pessimistic, that’s improvement oriented.
NL (33:49):
That’s a, that’s a more positive way
AJV (34:41):
No, I love that. I think just really getting clear on what you said, it’s like what are your skills, what are your passions? What have you been paid to do? But then also it’s like, what needs improving that you could actually help with what, at the very least it’s maybe you found a tool or a resource that’s really awesome, right? Kinda getting behind that and going, I need to just tell every single person I know about this and maybe tag some services on top of it. Right? those are so helpful. Anything else that you would say for someone who’s just getting started?
NL (35:08):
Well, on those live, I know you have a lot of podcast podcasters tuning in. There’s this one cool tool, I’ll see if I can take it up that I just found somebody, a listeners sent it to me. It was called likeon phonic.com/graph and it creates you punch in the name of your podcast and it creates this like 3D matrix thing of all the related shows on similar topics that you talk about. And it’s really cool because these are like guest podcast targets, basically like, hey look, if my audience is into this, you know, my, maybe I could find some new listeners over here, or maybe these hosts would be open to some sort of joint webinar, you know, collaboration, partnership thing as like, I thought that was a really cool recent, recent tool new find for me.
AJV (35:57):
Yes. And I will go and find the link and I will put that in the show notes for every, for everybody. But again, it’s like, find the tools that you love and figure out do they have an affiliate program and promote the pants off of them, right?
NL (36:10):
I dunno.
AJV (36:12):
NL (36:35):
Oh, I love it. So I’m like, I’m a sucker for these like, online businesses, right? Cuz there’s leverage and it’s like even the first few years you’re working for so far below minimum wage, it’s probably not even funny, but like over time it takes the same effort to produce a podcast that 10 people listen to or 10,000 people listen to or a hundred thousand people listen to. Same thing with, you know, written content, email content, YouTube content. So I love, like, I love all that stuff and that is ton of, that’s really fun. Like this combination of content production and analysis of what’s working, what’s not. Like I love that stuff. If I were to start a new business tomorrow, honestly I think it would be like a pressure washing business. I think it’s just so satisfying to go out there, do the work. I think it has the, you know, it would go like mini viral in the neighborhood. You stick your flag out there, you know, the neighbors walk by, they see you working hey, you wanna come by, gimme a quote. Like, I’m right across the street. What do you think you wanna come by and do my house next? I think that would be a ton of fun. I think that may be my retirement side hustle.
AJV (37:31):
Oh my gosh, I love this. We always talk about this like what are, what is the random chore that you secretly really like?
NL (37:55):
You bet, of course, would love to have you tune into the Side Hustle Show. We cover new and creative business ideas every Thursday. Look for the you know, green cover art with my mug on it and Spotify Apple Podcast, wherever your favorite podcast app is. Side hustle nation.com/ideas. If you are in that idea seeking stage, this is just a long list of part-time business ideas, ways to make extra money, no opt-in required over there, just you know, hopefully get the creative juices flowing.
AJV (38:23):
Awesome. And I will put both of those links in our show notes. But again, check out his podcast, The Side Hustle Show podcast and your favorite listening tool. And then if you are in the ideation phase or maybe you just want more side hustles, you can go to side hustle nation.com/ideas. And you can stay in touch with Nick on both of those places. Nick, thank you so much. Everyone, thanks for listening in and we’ll catch you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 339: 4 Keys to Creating Persuasive Promotional Videos with Eric Solomon | Recap Episode
Speaker 1 (00:03):
So another powerful interview, educational, informative, entertaining at least for me, listening to Eric Solomon talk about how to create great videos. And, you know, the, the first, I guess, highlight, or the first recap I wanna share with you, it, it wasn’t so much something specifically from Eric. I learned a, I learned a bunch, you know, from Eric. And I’ll talk about a couple of those, those key things in just a second. But I honestly want to share with you and just let you know this, because I feel like maybe you need to hear this, which is that for me personally, I have spent a large part of my career frustrated that I have to do all this stuff, like, frustrated that I have to deal with marketing and sales because it’s like I started my personal brand because I wanted to impact lives, right? Like, I wanted to help people.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I wanted to dedicate my time. I wanted to dedicate my life to researching and finding answers and solving problems that made my life better. And then also transitioning or passing those, those lessons and those principles along to other people. I never wanted to learn about marketing. I didn’t wanna have to learn how to write copy. I didn’t wanna have to learn about video editing. I don’t wanna have to learn about websites. I don’t wanna have to learn about social media. I don’t wanna have to learn about podcasting equipment. I didn’t wanna have to learn about funnels and marketing automation, right? Like, all of these things that end up absorbing such an exorbitant amount of our time and our energy and our resources, for me, is frustrating and has been frustrating because those are not the things that I wanted to do. Like, those are not the reasons why I started building a personal brand in the first place.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And yet, those are things I have to do, and I spend a lot of time doing, and we spend a lot of money on hiring people and getting stuff done and having to learn lessons like this one. And if, if that is frustrating to you or has ever been frustrating to you, I can relate with you on that, right? Marketing is frustrating. It’s, it’s like, to me, it, it’s, it’s been a necessary, almost like a necessary evil as in order to get the chance to do what I really wanna do, which is impact lives and help people and make a difference, and solve real problems and do meaningful work, and be an actual expert and, and study my craft. And so, for much of my life, I’ve been frustrated or much of my career, I’ve been frustrated that I’ve sort of held back from doing what I really wanna do at a bigger level because I’m not so great at marketing.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And because I never had a passion for marketing, and that’s always been frustrating to me. Until really just a couple years ago, I had a huge epiphany. And, and this is an epiphany I want, I’m gonna share with you because I think, think there’s a chance that this might matter to you if you are dealing with some of that frustration and you’re going, look, I I, I, I’m a, I want to make art, right? Like, I wanna do my thing. I wanna work on my craft. I I wanna create art. And the epiphany that I had a few years ago was when I realized that marketing is art. Marketing is art. Marketing is part of your artistry. Marketing is part of your craft. Marketing is is part of how you earn the right for your work to be heard and to be seen, and to make an impact.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It’s not just enough to create the work. I have to do the work of telling people about the work, which is marketing. And that is something that has, has taken me a long time to get to. But the moment you have that realization that you go, oh, marketing is art, marketing is part of my artistry, marketing is part of my craft. Marketing is as necessary a part of the art as creating the art itself. That my job, my responsibility, my privilege, my obligation my opportunity as the artist in creating the art is also to do the work of marketing it and telling people and about it and sharing it with people. Marketing is art. And so these are necessary conversations to have. These are necessary things to learn. These are necessary skill sets to develop or to at least be able to become competent at hiring other people to do for you.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And I know it’s hard, and I know it’s, you know, probably not the primary thing. And so much of what we’re, so much of what we teach people and help people with at Brand Builders Group is templates and toolkits and, and systems and strategies and techniques and frameworks and, and charts and systems to help automate and streamline as much of the marketing elements so that you can really focus your energy in, in the area of your passion, which is whatever your artistry is and whatever your craft is. So, I don’t want you to be discouraged. I want you to be encouraged. And I, I, I hope for you to have that same realization that I had because it made a big difference for me. It made a big difference because instead of fighting all of these things and being annoyed that have to do them, and being resistant to the, to, to social media and being resistant to copywriting and graphic design and websites and marketing automation and paid traffic acquisition and making sales calls and building, you know, pres getts and having to hire people and vendors and like all of the necessary elements that are, are part of the work, instead of being resistant to that, I have been able to finally turn the corner and embrace that.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And I think that that’s been a huge part of the success of Brand Builders Group is because I’ve said, oh, these, this is where we can create so many tools and so many processes and systems and checklists and templates to help our clients with, with these parts. You know, this part of the work and, and this is work. And the other thing, the other thing that I would say, so, so one of, you know, mentality wise and getting your mindset around creating great video, which is really what that interview is about. I’m just sort of rounding it out here to some of these other necessary things you have to do as part of being a mission driven messenger and getting your message out is the other way to. So, so one way to look at it is that marketing is art, and, and all of these things are necessary part of your art.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You know, part of the art is telling people that the art exists, and that’s, that’s a noble and important part of the artistry, otherwise no one ever gets to experience. And so that art never actually fulfills its purpose. The other part of it that I would say, which is also something that I’ve had to coach myself on and, and slap myself in the face every once in a while and go like, yeah, there’s parts of this you don’t wanna do. Of course there are, there’s parts of any business that you don’t wanna do. There’s parts of anything it takes to be successful. I e my first book, take The Stairs, right? The whole premise of that book is realizing that successful people are willing to do the things they, they, they know they need to do, and they know they should do, even when they don’t feel like doing them, because they realize that they’re a necessary part of achieving the goals that they have in life.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
People who are successful take the stairs. They do the things that other people aren’t willing to do. They do the things that they don’t like to do because they know they must be done in order to, and as part of a necessary stepping stone to the things that we want to do, and to achieving the things, the goals that we have for our life, and, and to, for the, for the purpose of living our purpose, we must do things we don’t wanna do. So I, I wanted to give you that context. That was sort of my first highlight, my first takeaway, my first aha, which wasn’t necessarily so much from something Eric said, but just kind of having this almost out of body experience have relearning principles that I’ve had to learn in the past and go like, yeah, normally I wouldn’t care about these things because they’re, they’re, they’re like ancillary to what my main focus is,
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Which is changing lives. But over time, I’ve really developed a, a love and a passion for this kind of stuff. And if you didn’t listen to that interview with Eric, I mean, you gotta go listen to it. I mean, hearing him talk about how, you know, his art is editing video, I mean video production, not editing video, but like producing a video a finished video product. And it’s amazing and it, it is transformative. We’ve also interviewed our one of the things we did for our members is we interviewed our creative director. She’s gonna be on the podcast as well talking about visual identity and graphic design, which are all things that, you know, to me was like, ah, I don’t wanna learn this. This isn’t really my thing. And it’s like, no, this is a part of it. And it’s, it’s a beautiful part of it, and it’s a necessary part.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So marketing is art, and you also, there’s gonna be things that you just have to do that you don’t feel like doing. So that’s the first thing. The second thing on the topic specifically of what makes great video, and I, for me, the most powerful moment, or the most powerful concept in, in the entire interview with Eric was when he said, focus on feelings, not on facts. Focus on feelings, not on facts. When you’re producing a video, when you’re creating a video piece for whatever it is, whether it’s Instagram or you know, this, that, or whatever, focus on feelings and not on facts. In other words, the, the, the purpose of the video isn’t to convey information. The purpose of the video is to convey a motion to, to convey a feeling, to, to convey this transference of this energy, of what it’s like to do business with you, to hire you or your team or your company.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
That’s what video does in such a powerful way. And I would say that’s also true about great copywriting, right? So those of you that are, are members of ours, you know, that we teach a very specific framework that again, was life changing for us once we figured this out. It’s called the 15 piece of Copywriting. And it is how to come up with the exact words that you need to put on a page in order to get someone to pull out their credit card and buy something from you. Well, the whole concept of the 15 piece is just a structure to help move the audience emotionally, to move the reader emotionally. That’s also what makes great photography. If you go back and you listen to the interview that we did with Nick Ankin, who’s celebrity photographer of like Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and the Pope and all these people, right?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And also the interview that we did with Lewis Howes where we were talking about photography, and it’s, it’s great photography captures a feeling. It’s a state, it’s an emotion, it’s an energy. That’s what great copywriting does. That’s what great graphic design does. That’s what great video editing does. And so it was interesting, you know, for me,I’m tying back and some of those episodes are pretty old. Like Lewis was one of the very first people we interviewed on this podcast. So it’s been a couple years. UI’ve been on his show six or seven times,in the last couple years, but he’s only been on this show once. And,and then Nick Onken, who’s also Lewis’s photographer and also has become mine and AJ’s,you know, primary photographer for major photo shoots is,you know, that was old older too, but it’s the same.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You’ll hear the same thing when our creative director comes on. And she’s talking about how we do visual identity, or Nick talking about photography, Nick or Lewis talking about photography is you know, us teaching the 15 P’s, us teaching the presentation, the one of our, one of our official courses for our members is called World Class Presentation Craft. And we teach all of these mastery level stage mechanics for how to develop characters and use your voice and, and write stories and create content and, and lay out visuals and create pillar points. All of these techniques use humor, the psychology of laughter, which are all focused on one thing, moving the audience emotionally, move the audience emotionally. They need to have an emotional reaction. They need to have an emotional response. And that’s what Eric was saying about what makes great video, right?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And I, I have to think of another great example of this. You know, somebody who does video really well is Eric Thomas. So Eric Thomas, et the hip hop preacher, who is another one of our brand builders group clients. And we just, we just ran his book launch for him. And we just hit the New York Times bestseller list a few weeks ago, which was fantastic. But AJ and I had been fans of Eric’s for years before he ever became a client. And he, you know, has over 5 million followers and he’s got, you know, hundreds of millions of video views because when you watch Eric on video, it moves you emotionally, right? It’s, it’s, it’s not even so much what he’s saying as how he’s saying it. You have this like, this, this physiological response, right? That’s what makes a great speaker. Ed Millet is also that way, another one of our clients, right?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And Ed, when Ed’s on stage, he, he, as a speaker, he creates this, you’re listening. You have a physiological response. Your heart rate changes based on the way he’s using his voice. And those are things that we teach, how you’re using your voice, how you’re using humor, how you’re telling stories, the structure of things, all these different things. And that’s what a great video should do. And, and I think the part of why I’m harping on this is to go look, if you don’t know anything else about video, all you have to know is that when somebody watches it, does it move them emotionally? And does it create
Speaker 1 (14:51):
The energy in the viewer that you want that viewer to experience? And is that the energy? Does the video portray the energy of your brand? Does your video portray the energy of you as the messenger? And, and again, I just can’t help but talk about this concept and apply it also to, does your copywriting do that? Does your, does your photography do that? Does your your graphic design do that? Does your speech do that? Like, these are all aspects of marketing and personal branding, which have to just map back and, and tie directly to creating a specific energy or motion for your, for your viewer and for your audience. And that’s just so powerful. My third takeaway, and this is something that I truly have learned from Eric that I’d never heard before, that has really been a game changer for our business, is leveraging the power of the interview for leverage, the power of the interview format for video.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Now, not just for like podcast interviews, you know, we all see people do interviews for that, but he was saying like, rather than trying to write a script for a marketing video for your company, interview your clients, or hire somebody like Eric to to interview them for you and, and interview them on video and ask questions in a way that’s gonna solicit or elicit the responses from them about what it’s like to do business with you. And when you get your actual customers just talking, then you’re able to take that and, and that becomes, becomes the gold. Now, a lot of times, you, you know, so that’s one thing is, is interviewing your customers. But the other thing is interview yourself or have somebody interview you. So, like, rather than trying to write the perfect script of, what am I gonna say on this promotional?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Let’s say it’s a promotional video. What you would do is you just have somebody interview you in a way that you can just sort of like unload on them, like emotionally, just like sort of unload or pop off on like this rant about why you do what you do and who you do it for, and why did you start this brand or this company, and what does it mean to you and why is it important? And, and who, who is it for? And just creating that, that, that eruption of emotion and sort of puking that out on camera, and then being able to go back and post production and edit that, that will take a lot of pressure off you. And, and Eric does it brilliantly. The very first project he ever did for us was he created a testimonial video, which is still on our [email protected]. It’s so good. And AJ and I aren’t even in the video, like no one, there’s a couple of our strategists that are in the video, but it’s mostly our customers
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Talking about what it is like to do business with us. And that’s still on the homepage of brand builders group.com. Or if you go to free brand call.com/podcast, it’ll take you right to it. And you can see the video of our customers talking about what it’s been like to, to work with us and do business with us. And so interviewing is super powerful, but we also, it’s also a great way for you to create content. Okay? So I’ve been talking about in the context of like promotional videos, like you know, a great example is with the speaker demo video. And, and Eric talks about these he said too, but I’m gonna say the three types of video that every personal brand needs is you need a personal brand or like a bio video, which is a short bio about you, which, which by the way if you go to my Instagram handle, which is at Rory Vaden I have pinned to the top of my Instagram my new personal brand little bio video that Eric produced for me.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And you can just go look at it. I’ve got it pinned to the top. So it will always be up there no matter when you listen to this. And it’s a 62nd bio video. And even in that bio video you’ll see there’s, there’s customer testimonials from Lewis Howes and Eric Thomas and Ed Mylett in even that little 62nd video. I’ve got three little miniature testimonials, and the whole video is really testimonials from our clients and our friends introducing me on their shows. It’s, you know, Eric put that together, he did a great job. So you can go look at that as an example of, of what a 62nd personal brand video looks like, which is also like a customer testimonial. And so anyways, you need three types of videos. You need a personal brand or like a bio video. You need customer testimonial videos like, or case study videos as he called them.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
And then you need a speaker demo video. I’ve got two brand new speaker demos that Eric has worked on for me, but we’re not releasing them live yet, I don’t think until we release. We’re updating rory vaden.com and so that’ll be all part of it. So when, when that happens, I’ll make an announcement and you can go check out the new rory vaden.com. But the, so the interview format for promotional video is super powerful, but the interview format for a speaker demo video is especially a, a powerful tip because when you’re editing a speaker demo video, you have footage of you speaking on all these different stages and all these events, but it, they, you’re, they often don’t perfectly fit a through line of exactly the story you want to tell when you’re trying to sell yourself as a speaker. Cuz they’re, those are videos of you doing what you actually do.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Those are not videos of you selling what you actually do. And so the way to fit, the way to fill in the, the blanks there and the backbone of their whole demo video can be an interview with you. And so somebody can interview you on camera and they can interview you. And, and the first time we did it with Eric, he did it over zoom, like straight up just high quality, you know, as high quality zoom would, would put out, interviewed us. And that become the baseline, like for sort of like, when I say the through line, it’s, it’s the thread through the whole video and then you’re interspersing customer testimonial clips and, you know, media clips and you on stage and all the things that go into, into into a full demo video. But you become the through line in an interview direct to camera format.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Or typically you’re not talking right at the camera, you’re typically like looking off the, the lens just a little bit. And that’s super powerful. But the other place that we’re seeing interview formats show up now for our clients is when you need to create content videos. So for example, some of our clients struggle to build their first like webinar and they don’t know, you know, they’ll, they’ll be like, ah, you know, they struggle to get the slides together, or they don’t know the right format, or they’re worried about what they’re gonna say, or they just get nervous talking directly to the camera. And so one of the things we can do and we can do for them is we can interview them and basically the interview becomes the webinar. And so rather than a, rather than a recording of like a talking head over some slides, it becomes an actual conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And so we’ve done it, we’ve helped do clients do that for webinars. A lot of people will write books that way. They’ll have somebody interview them, record the whole interview. It could take, you know, a few days even record the whole interview, get it transcribed, and then send it to an editor and have them turn that into a book. We’ve done, we’ve done that way. We have done it for book launch bonuses. In fact, I mentioned Eric Thomas a couple times here. This is what we did for Eric Thomas did this, I did this for Matthew West also. So one of our clients is Matthew West. He’s a one of my favorite Christian musicians of all times a 25 Grammy nominees and, or sorry, five Grammy, five time Grammy nominated artist and 25 number one singles, Matthew West. And anyways, when we did his book launch, I interviewed Matthew about his book and that interview became the bonus content for people who pre-ordered his book.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And also at the end of that interview, we, we, we sold the upgrade the bulk packages. That’s all stuff we teach in bestseller launch plan, which is one of our phase three curriculums on, on how to do these, these book launches. By the way, we just had our 11th client, our 11th client this last week, hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller list, the 11th time. We’ve had one of our clients hit the New York Times or Wall Street Journal or USA Today bestseller list just in the last couple years. Like our book launching stuff is, is on lockdown, but one of the things we do is we create these bonuses to get people to pre-order in one of the bonuses is this, this reverse interview or this masterclass where it’s like, you don’t have to, you don’t have to even think about or plan for the content.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You just get someone to interview you and that becomes the bonus. And then we do this like, you know, kind of sales pitch at the end to get people to upgrade and buy and bulk. But anyways, the interview format and then one of our implementation partners for social media is now doing this for our clients. When our clients struggle to create content every week, like, you know, we teach this content diamond process, which I’ve taught here before you, if you go to rory vaden blog dot com and you search for content diamond, you know, I, I’ve taught the whole thing and that’s a, that’s, we’ve made that available for free. It’s an amazing training on how we do social media. But, and it starts with a, like a source seven minute video of you talking to camera. Well, some of our clients struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And so one of our implementation partners is so brilliant, starts started interviewing clients and just giving them like three or five questions every week to answer. And the interview format becomes the source content for the entire content diamond. And it fills their whole social media calendar for the week. And they don’t, they don’t have to like, prepare what they’re gonna say. They just answer these questions and then they cut, they, they edit together the interview as the source content. I mean, it’s really, really great. So you maybe haven’t thought about the power of the interview format in all of these different ways. And that was, you know, really eye opening when I first, I first met Eric. And, and now he’s taken us through his process several times. So there you have it. Some of my big highlights and takeaways, hopefully those are inspiring and powerful for you too. And just remembering that you know, marketing is art. Part of your artistry is letting people know that your art exists. And what is art other than a piece of work that moves people emotionally. So when you’re creating art, create something, create somebody of work that moves people emotionally, that’s what makes an artist.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Thanks for being here. Make sure you come back share this episode with somebody you know who needs to learn about video editing and marketing as artistry. Would love it if you leave a review and rate us on iTunes and just, you know, share this, share this with somebody you think it would be useful for. Have a great week everyone. We’ll catch you next time on the Influential Personal Brand podcast.
Ep 338: 4 Keys to Creating Persuasive Promotional Videos with Eric Solomon
RV (00:02):
So I know from experience that it is extremely difficult to find quality people to work with, to help you get stuff done in a brand builders group, we are a strategy firm. We think of ourselves as architects. We think of ourselves as the air traffic controllers. We tell people what to do in the order they should do it, and in the way it should be done. But when it comes to actually getting the work done, we often have to partner with other firms. And so today I’m excited to introduce you to my personal video editor. His name is Eric, and we’re going to get inside his head about how video storytelling is really done. We’re gonna talk about four effective rules to do it. What are some of the mistakes that people make? And I want you to let to, to make this specific for you to know that the videos that we’re gonna talk about producing today are promotional videos.
RV (00:55):
We’re not talking about social media reels. And you know, it could apply to that. It’ll apply to your YouTube videos that you post every week or whatever, or your podcast. But we’re really talking about is like the commercial, the video commercial of you that you use to sell yourself and your services. And, you know, there’s a couple different types of videos for that. So it’s really like the high end video that you need to, to sell yourself. And so let me tell you a little bit about Eric. So he’s an award-winning video producer. He is an editor. He’s a storyteller. He’s a strategist. He does the whole thing from the concept and the storyboarding and the mapping, you know, e even site location, bringing another videographers, et cetera. And all the way down through like the actual editing and, and the final production.
RV (01:44):
And we love Eric because he’s so genuine. He has such an authentic approach that has the, the professional polish of true high level film production, but also the heart of, you know, we talk about mission driven messengers. And so he has that balance. And, and he he, he actually produced a film, made a film called Autism Every Day, was a project that he worked on where he weaved the stories of eight diverse families into a single narrative that showed the world what it was like for families raising an autistic child. This film went on to be screened at the Sundance Film Festival and led his client to appearances on Oprah, Good Morning America and The View. Eric has also produced trailers for TV commercials and Halloween Hollywood films like Last of the Mohicans a Few Good Men and the American President. But his biggest accomplishment in life was editing Brand Builders Group homepage videos Rory Vaden, speaker demo videos. And anyways, without further ado, Eric Buddy, welcome to the show. Thank
ES (02:59):
You, Rory. I thank you for that great introduction. I couldn’t have written it better myself,
RV (03:04):
ES (04:11):
At a high level, it’s really all about being authentic. I, I think a lot of videos don’t succeed today because people try to script them. They try to figure out exactly what they wanna say ahead of time. And I think, you know, audiences tune out to ads. They, they don’t want to hear narrators. They don’t want to hear an ad for something. They want to hear something that’s real. And when you can really authentically connect with your audience, that’s when you get their attention, and that’s when you can deliver the message. That is the whole reason to make the video in the first place.
RV (04:51):
Mm-Hmm.
ES (05:17):
Well, this is a kind of a good lead into my four golden rules for making an impactful video.
RV (05:23):
Let’s do it. Let’s get in.
ES (05:25):
First one is really all about the script, and my feeling is do not write a script.
RV (05:31):
Wow.
ES (05:32):
I believe the best videos are created by conducting interviews in an unscripted manner. The videos that I’ve made for you, Rory, I’ve, I’ve interviewed you and you’re a very polished interviewer. You have a lot of experience with that. But I wanted to ask you questions, and I wanted you to just speak to me like it’s the first time you’re talking to me. The video that’s on Ran Builders homepage that I did for you. I interviewed strategist, I interviewed clients. Nobody knew the questions I was gonna ask. It was all unscripted. And really, the reason I think to take an unscripted approach is that I don’t think a writer can write something better than what the people who are most familiar with the subject would just naturally say.
RV (06:28):
Wow.
ES (06:30):
And, you know, unless you’re Aaron Sorkin, my feeling is turn the information that you want to deliver in that video into a question and ask that, have somebody ask you that question, and then you respond with the answer. And you ask people, who are your clients that question. You ask a series of people, the same group, the same questions, and then you use their answers and you weave them together to tell the story that you want to tell, to give the information that you want to give. But you use the best moments from each of those interviews and you can create something that is far more powerful and far more engaging than anything that you could write. Or that probably you could hire a writer, a writer to write.
RV (07:21):
Yeah, I mean, I, I I will say this, like, this is one of the, I mean, we’ve worked with so many video editors over the years and have gone through so many processes and we’ve done it ourself and like, you know, lots of different ways. And the interview is like, part of when I think of you, it’s like you brought the interview and just really blew open the doors for us of going, this can be easy, this can be fast, and it can be amazing because if you just interview and, and, and, and part of what I found, so even with like my speaker demo video, we did this, and now we have, we have two, we have two speaker demo videos for me. We’ve got like a couple that we’re working on. We’re, we’re finalizing ’em both. You’ll, you’ll be able to see those by the way, rory vaden.com here, like, you know, probably within a few weeks af after the time of this interview comes out.
RV (08:13):
So you can go look at those, the [email protected] are up. Or if you go to free brand call.com/podcast, you’ll see our, our sort of like a flagship company storytelling video that Eric did. But the interview serves as such a, an incredible through line for the whole video. And it, it gives you the natural, like, cuts on audience shots and like different people saying it a different way. And, and just, I mean, what you said it, I don’t think a writer can write something better than what your people will actually say. I mean, that is so true. You do such a good job of capturing that.
ES (08:52):
Thank you. Thank you. And I think something you just said is really key. Also it does make it easy for my clients because they don’t have to go on meeting after meeting and what are we gonna put in the video and how are we gonna do this? And what are we gonna show here? I, my goal is to make it as easy as possible for my clients and sit down with them, do the interview, have them give me their assets. If they’re a speaker, they give me their samples of the keynotes they’ve delivered. If they if they make presentations, whatever assets they have, whatever photographs they have, they just hand that over to me. They introduce me to their clients who I also interview, and then they’re done. The next thing they know, they are seeing what I think could be a finished cut, but of course it’s not finished until they’re happy.
RV (09:46):
Yeah. Well, and, and that, that really is, I mean, that’s part of why what’s been amazing is like, you know, we’re so busy. Everyone is so busy. And it’s like, if you don’t edit videos for a living, you just, you don’t realize how much time it takes and how much involvement and how much storytelling and what are the right questions to ask, and the sequencing and the timing, and then the visual effects and the music and the, and the transitions and like all of these little things. And then you get into it and you go, this is so big and scary and painful. It takes forever to get a video edited versus basically, I remember when AJ found you, it was just like, we just basically dumped everything on you. And you were like, you set up a time. I didn’t even know, it was like, I have this interview with Eric, We did an interview, and then it was like, I’m done.
RV (10:35):
I was like, Wait, how are we gonna put together this video? And then, and then it was just like, No, that’s, that was my only role in it. And then you sent it back. You know, I give you some creative direction or whatever, but then you send it back. And then from there it’s more like, Okay, move these pieces around a little bit, but so painless, like so, so fast. So you know, just a, just a, an elegant way of of of, of doing it. And, and you mentioned the speaking video, so I wanna talk about that for a second because even if people listening aren’t professional speakers, I mean, you, you know, your brand builders member also, so you know, that we, we believe the fastest way to get clients is not social media, is it’s, it is not, you know, funnels and ads.
RV (11:20):
It’s referrals from people, you know, and it’s from doing presentations and you go speak for free. You don’t need to get paid because if you speak for free, you’ll get paid in business that comes from it. And a lot of times when you do a, a presentation on stage, even a keynote on stage, the way you deliver a keynote is much different from the way that you would present a sales video or a promotional video. And so, a lot of times, even though I’ve spoke on big, beautiful stages, I don’t have exactly the right clips that I need to pull together a cohesive, persuasive you know, promotional video. And yet when you interview me, you, you’re, you’re pulling, it’s easy to get that footage in an interview. It’s hard to get it from just, here’s all the presentations or here’s all the content that I’ve ever done. But in an, in an interview, it’s like, it gives me a chance to say everything that I need to say. And that’s, and that’s also part of what you do so masterfully, is you draw it out of people.
ES (12:25):
Yeah. And, you know, and it’s in you. It’s in all of the people listening people, people talk about what they do all the time. They, they know the answers to the questions. They don’t have to prepare, you know, brand builders, clients personal brands who are successful. They’re passionate about what they do, and, and all they really need is somebody to ask them questions. And the information just pours out of them. And, and that’s, that’s really the key to to creating great video. It, it’s a good, this is a good segue into the second one.
RV (13:00):
Yeah, I was gonna say, tell me, All right, tell me this. So tell me the second one, cuz I know we got four, so I don’t wanna be left hanging. So what’s, what’s the number two?
ES (13:06):
Definitely the second one is you need to create videos that are a dialogue, not a monologue. And that sounds counterintuitive because videos are a one way form of communication. You right. Use them, you create them, you edit them, and then they’re done and they’re up there. But when you think about it as an audience, when you’re watching a video, you’re always listening and thinking, Well, how does that apply to me? And huh, that point makes me think of this question and well, what else do I need to know? So there’s always a dialogue going on, but as the person creating a video, you’re either conscious of that and, and aware of that as you’re editing the video or you’re not. The best videos, in my opinion, are always taking into account what is the audience thinking. When I just said what I said, What do they need to know next?
ES (14:04):
Do I need to answer a question or do I need to keep giving them the information that they don’t even know? They don’t even know, they don’t know. You know, it’s you always have to be constantly giving them that next piece of information that they, that they’re wondering or that’s gonna keep them engaged. And when you stop doing that, that’s when the engagement level drops. You know, we videos all start out at that high, a hundred percent, and they drop fast. But when you grab people quickly and you keep them engaged and you keep telling them what they need to know, or you tell them you’re giving them your message in a very engaging and dynamic way, then you keep them engaged, you keep them with you, and you’re able to deliver that, that full message. Mm-Hmm.
RV (14:59):
Yeah.
ES (15:00):
Delivering a monologue, They’re, they’re gone.
RV (15:03):
Yeah. I mean, it’s just, if it’s, you know, that it’s like, Hey, this is a commercial. Or if it’s just all about you, right? Like, Hey, here’s how amazing I am. And there’s no consideration. It’s like they don’t really care about you. They care about what you can do for them, right? And so they only need to know enough about you to know you’re credible. What they really care about is what can you do for me for these types of videos specifically, the purpose is not education, it’s sales. Like, we’re not just trying to just educate, we’re trying to persuade and move to action,
ES (15:39):
Right? But it’s not sales in the traditional sense of, of selling. I’d like to think that the videos I create are, are story driven from the the audience’s point of view. It’s not a story about Rory Vaden, it’s not a story about brand builders. It’s a story about the people who have been served by Rory, served by brand builders. And when you’re always, you always have that perspective in mind as you’re editing and as you’re creating, and as you’re gathering the material, the content to create the video, then you’re going to deliver your message in a, in a way that people respond to, because they’re not gonna feel like you’re selling them. You’re, they’re gonna feel like you’re sharing a story with them. You’re not trying to persuade them of anything. You’re, you’re telling them, Hey, this is, this is a problem that people have and this is how I’ve helped them solve that problem.
RV (16:34):
Yeah. And I’ll I’ll say for those of you listening that are members, of course, you know, one of our flagship frameworks and things that we teach is called the 15 Ps of copywriting. And that is how do you, what words, how do you come up with the words you need to put on the page to get people to like, pull out their credit card and buy something or to sign up for a free call? And there’s a sequence which the, that se there’s a sequence of the 15 P’s. They happen in a specific order to specific reason. The reason that is, is because of psychology, human psychology of what questions do people have about new things, and in what order do they have them and what do they need to know of which storytelling is just another, is a short, ver a condensed way of saying that is going.
RV (17:25):
Stories are extremely effective sales tools because they connect, they’re deeply rooted to human psychology and the sequence of how we learn new things and explore new things and remember new things. And so if you’re a, if you’re a, if you are a, if you’re a a, a messenger, if you, one of the BBG messengers, the 15 P’s to me, always serves as a initial arc guideline for the conversation. But then, you know, when you get into visual storytelling, there is a lot, there is a lot of room for creative expression, and it depends on what assets you have and, you know, what do people say in the interviews? And since it’s kind of a spontaneous collection of different things, you have to, you allow for some flexibility to massage those assets together. But like, if you look at the videos that Eric has created, we’ve gone back and forth several times on the 15 P’s and saying like, Oh, hey, I wanna move this over here.
RV (18:22):
But it’s, it’s gotta bend and flex a little bit just to, for the, you know, the creative artistry. And you know, I think the thing that I would say for everybody, which is good, is if you don’t know the 15 P’s, or if you are a brand builder and you know ’em, but you don’t study ’em every night like I do
ES (19:03):
The 15 P’s are a great segue into the third point. Okay.
RV (19:07):
15 p
ES (19:09):
The third rule that I use is that you focus on feelings, not facts.
RV (19:17):
Mm.
ES (19:19):
And a lot of people, when they create videos, they think about that information that they want to get across. You know, I’ve got these five points that I want to get across, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna, you know, whatever I do, I’m gonna make sure I say these five points. But your audience is not gonna remember the five things that you feel so strongly that you’ve gotta get across. What they’re gonna remember is how they felt watching you, that they feel like you really cared about what you’re talking about, that you’re passionate about this subject, that you’re knowledgeable, that you’re somebody that I could feel comfortable working with. You know, the Maya Angelou quote is repeated often, and and I’m gonna do it again here. People will forget what you say and they’ll forget what you do, but they’ll never forget how they, how you made them feel.
ES (20:08):
And it’s very much true in video. You know, you think about the videos you’ve seen that you liked, you probably don’t remember details or facts of those videos, but you remember, I felt like this is somebody that could help me. I felt like this is somebody that cares about me, cares about the problem that I have. So it’s it’s not that the facts aren’t important, it’s that you have to present the facts in a way that’s memorable. And the way you become memorable is you use the feelings because feelings are memorable. So any any pieces of information you can turn into stories, if there’s an emotional element to what you do, to the way you serve people, and the way you help people try to use that. You know, you, you tell a great story, Roy during your keynotes about delegation. You know, a lot of people feel like they can’t delegate what they do. And I don’t wanna repeat the story because it’s, it’s a great story. But you know, you’re, you’re telling the story and the audience doesn’t know why you’re telling the story, but when you get to the end, you will never forget that anything can be delegated
RV (21:25):
ES (21:27):
It’s just, it’s very powerful. And it’s funny. It’s, it’s a great story. And thank you. It, so, it’s, it’s feelings, not facts,
RV (21:35):
Feelings. It is. And, and, and you know, what’s this is something that I’m guilty of, and I think this is a good place where you’ve had balance for me is, is to not go so analytical and so logical. And so information like, again, particularly in a promotional video, like a lot of my content videos that I would put on Instagram or on YouTube, the purpose is conveying information. I’m del I’m delivering education. I’m demonstrating my expertise. I’m trying to be useful to people, but in a promotional video, and it’s, you know, selling is a transference of emotion. It is a way of making them feel. And it’s, it’s sort of ironic because you go, video lends itself to the rare opportunity to effectively generate an emotion without you having to be there in person to do it. And that, I think is, is, is so powerful of going it, it, it’s almost like when you’re looking at your video, don’t ask yourself, Did I cover it? Did I say everything that I wanted to say in the video? It’s ask yourself, how does this video make the viewer feel? Like, what emotion are they experiencing? And, and what emotion am I trying to create? Not, not what information am I trying to relay.
ES (23:06):
You and I went back and forth with the 15 Ps, you know, when I, when we first started working together, you told me I did it intuitively and I didn’t know what the 15 Ps were, and then you mm-hmm.
RV (24:01):
ES (25:06):
The bad And cleanup number four is the, I call it the nonverbal rule. And it’s really that we all focus so much on the words that we use when we communicate. And we’re taught that as children, you know, user words when you communicate, a lot of brand builders clients are writers. They’re very focused on the words. And you know, Vanessa Van Edwards really crystallized this for me. She was a guest couple months ago, and she just wrote a book called Cues, which anybody who hasn’t read it, I highly recommend it.
RV (25:41):
Yeah, We love Vanessa. She’s been on twice, actually. We’ve had her on twice. She’s very good. Yep.
ES (25:45):
Brilliant. But what she talks about is that nonverbal communication really conveys more to an audience than the words that we choose. Mm. And I’m sure you, you talk about this when you’re, when you’re teaching speakers and keynote presentation craft it’s your body language. It’s your voice, it’s your inflection, It’s the energy, the emotion, it’s the, the setting. You know what’s going on around you. It’s your wardrobe, what you’re wearing. It’s all those things convey more. Then you realize, you know, if, if the, if the energy and the tone and the, the confidence in what you say is there, then it supports the message. But if you’re kind of just talking and really not into what you’re saying, then the audience is not gonna be there with you. This is a, something that the audience that I, that I think, you know, people listening can do to help them with that nonverbal communication.
ES (26:52):
I think a lot of people, you know, we communicate this way on Zoom now, you know, face to face meetings are just not happening at the rate that they used to. And people, when they set up their home video for Zoom, they, there are some things they could do to make sure that they look better, that they sound better. And a lot of people are still not doing that as well as they could. I know a lot of people are listening to this, They’re not watching the video, so I’m gonna be a little extra descriptive here. But one thing that people can do is make sure that their camera is at eye level when they’re speaking. A lot of people have laptops on the table and they’re pointing up. You would never sit down and and talk to a person that’s two feet below you Right. Looking down on them. And should be the same thing with the camera. It should be at eye level lighting. Don’t put a window behind you. I mean, you’ve got a window behind you, Rory, but that’s not really a window behind you,
RV (27:54):
ES (28:01):
Exactly. Exactly. And ring lights are very inexpensive and they’re available on Amazon. It’s, it’s a, it’s a good investment to have. Make sure you have good lighting on you. Sound is another key element. I wanna do a little, a little live example here. Right now, I’m speaking to you on my, on my new microphone. Yeah. Which I bought for this podcast because I wanted to sound good
RV (28:27):
ES (28:31):
Exactly. But do you hear a difference now?
RV (28:34):
Wow.
ES (28:35):
This is the microphone that is built into my computer. So it really makes a difference when you have an external microphone. It doesn’t have to be expensive. It doesn’t have to be it doesn’t have to be a big deal. But if you’re using the microphone built into your computer, the chances are, you might sound more like this uhhuh.
RV (29:00):
It’s just sort of wimpy and like echoy and light. I mean, it just, it doesn’t sound like you have charisma and power and confidence,
ES (29:07):
Right? Not, and, and that, yes, it’s verbal, but it’s, it’s subtle. And now I’m back on my, my new Yeti microphone. Mm-Hmm.
RV (29:20):
Yes, it does. I mean, what a, what a massive, a massive difference. So camera height should be, eye level lights should be in front of us on our face, not behind us. Just getting a mic. Any, any others that you would add? Quick pointers there.
ES (29:39):
Just remember your body language. You know it. If you are somebody who likes to talk with your hands, use your hands. If you are if you are just, just remember your energy. Think of yourself as actually being with that person, in person and, and speak to them as you would with the, with the confidence and, and dressing as you would. You know, we all dress down a little bit when we’re at home, but if you are in a, in a meeting on Zoom, you wanna look good. It matters. It makes an impression. Yeah. So it’s, it’s these kinds of nonverbal elements that I think make a big difference more than people realize when, when delivering their message. It really, it either it helps reinforce the message you wanna say, or it detracts from the message you wanna say. The words alone are not enough.
RV (30:41):
Yep. Yep. I love it. So those are awesome. Those are so powerful. The again, just a reminder, y’all, if, if, if you’re on the hunt, like if you’re on the, on the look right now, for someone that can help you create some of these promotional videos, email us [email protected] in the subject line, just put Eric’s videos, and then we will connect you you know, directly to Eric, and you can, you can talk with him and understand more of his process. As we start to wrap up here a little bit, Eric, there’s, there’s two there. I was gonna say, there’s, there’s, there’s two types of videos that every personal brand should have. And then I know you have some type of a surprise, which I have no idea what that is, but should we, should we do the surprise first? Or should we talk about the two types of videos every personal brand should have?
ES (31:34):
Well, the surprise is part of the first video.
RV (31:37):
Oh, okay. All right. So tell us
ES (31:39):
The, the first video that every personal brand should have is, it sounds obvious, but a personal brand video.
RV (31:48):
Ah,
ES (31:48):
What is a personal brand video? If you do a Google search on personal brand videos, you will get videos where people talk about themselves. Cause they think a personal brand video is about them. But if you’re a brand builder’s client, you know this, your personal brand is not about you
RV (32:06):
Preach Brother
ES (32:07):
RV (32:55):
What
ES (32:57):
Surprise.
RV (32:58):
Check this out. Okay, so it’s, it’s, it’s 95 seconds. Can we play it
ES (33:03):
Please.
RV (33:04):
Or are you nervous? Are you, are you nervous that it’s good or you feel confident?
ES (33:07):
I feel confident.
RV (33:08):
I feel, I feel confident too. Okay. So let me do this some
ES (33:12):
Share screen and
RV (33:13):
Yeah, I can, I can share. And those of you, if you’re watching this on YouTube, you’ll actually, you’ll be watching a video of me playing the video, which hopefully will work here. So let me I need to optimize this for a video clip. All right. So we’ll share,
ES (33:28):
We’ll, your editors can edit it in so you don’t have this, this part of it that’s, you could just cut to it.
RV (33:34):
Cut to it. Okay. So here here we, here we go, announcing the Rory Vain personal brand video.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
My name is Rory Vaden. I am the co-founder of Brand Builders Group. I’m the New York Times bestselling author, and I spend my days trying to help people and businesses get better. So this is, and I have always been a nerd. I have always been drawn to the provable In many ways, I’m sort of surprised that I grew up to become what some might call a motivational speaker, because what I’m really interested in is concrete evidence and provable techniques and strategies that actually can be deployed to create a result. The next level of results always requires the next level of thinking. I feel like I’m at my best when I am in front of an audience, or even if it’s an audience of one, because I’m operating in my uniqueness.
RV (34:31):
It’s not
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Enough for people to know what you do. They must know why you do it. I believe that we are capable of literally creating the world around us that we want. And I believe that every single person has that intuitive calling for the way their life is supposed to be, and they don’t realize that they have the ability to do it. And I would say that I feel like I am here to deliver a message that inspires people to be their best. And that inspires people to exploit the things that they are good at in the service of other people.
RV (35:17):
Oh man, that’s so cool. That’s
ES (35:19):
The world premier of Rory’s personal brand video
RV (35:22):
ES (35:32):
It’s, it’s who you are, it’s what you do. It’s why you do it, and it’s the unique way you do it. So in 90 seconds, if somebody doesn’t know anything about you and they come to your website and they are gonna give you a little bit of time, but not, not too much time, they’re probably gonna hit that video. And in 90 seconds, what I hope is accomplished is they will get a feeling for who you are and that you’re somebody that they can, that they like, that they wanna learn more about. You know, everybody is busy, everybody’s distracted. But if you can manage to get people to your website and you gotta deliver a message quickly to them that’s gonna engage them and want them, get them to want to learn more.
RV (36:19):
Yeah. That is the goal. So, so cool, man. I love that. So, and I mean, 90 seconds is a doable thing for anybody. Even if you don’t have a lot of video footage or a lot of photography, you could do it in an interview. One interview gives you way more than you would need to pull all this together with just a few assets, right?
ES (36:37):
It’s, it’s a quick interview, It’s 15 minutes. And if all they have is some photographs, I’ve, I’ve done it with photographs, I do it with graphics, if you have a lot of B-roll of you. So I was able to integrate that. Whatever people have can be integrated into this, but the main thing is the, the delivery of the message. You’re the, the, the passion you have and the, the, the confidence you have in delivering and talking about yourself and what you do. I mean, that’s, it’s unscripted it, that’s just who you are and what you do. And it comes across.
RV (37:13):
That is really, really cool, brother. Thank you so much for that. I mean, that is awesome, y’all. If you want one of, if you want one of those, if y’all one of those who better email us input brand builders group.com, put Eric’s videos in the subject line, we’ll connect you. Cuz you know, I mean, I, I get, I mean, I don’t, I don’t wanna speak for you, but like, you know, you people should invest a lot of money into these things, but a a 92nd video certainly has gotta be a lot cheaper than producing a one hour, you know, 90 minute feature length film. So what a great, what a great place to start if you’re, if you’re just beginning and you go, Well, I haven’t been on national TV and I’ve never spoken in front of a thousand people and I don’t have a best selling book and I don’t, you know, it’s just like, just the heart. We call this the poll P 14 in the 15 piece is the pole, the emotional like pull of just a heartfelt invitation of why you’re here and why you, you do what you do. You can create that. So simple. I it’s such, such a great idea. I I just, I love it and I love, I love mine, Eric. It, it’s really cool, man. Thank you.
ES (38:19):
You’re welcome. You’re welcome. I’m glad. The second kind of video that I think every personal brand should have is what people think of when they think of a testimonial video. And I know with the trends and personal branding study that you guys did
RV (38:38):
Yeah, preach it.
ES (38:40):
RV (38:50):
You, if you haven’t heard this, cuz maybe if you’re just new to the podcast, like if, if you go to brandville just group.com and you click on free trainings, you can download our influential personal brand summit, which is, or excuse me, our trends in personal branding, national research study, which is what Eric is talking about. And we asked Americans, it was a US study, you know, what is the most, the most influential factors in, in the average American consumer making a purchasing decision? And we said, Oh, someone’s a New York Times bestselling author. They have a huge social media following. They have, you know, graduate degrees, they have, you know, all these other things. And the number one thing by far was they have testimonials of other real life people. And so I love that you’re, you’re talking about this,
ES (39:39):
But I think they can do so much more with testimonials than they even realize. Think about it. It’s testimonial is a story. It’s not just saying, I love working with you. You know, you’re great at what you do. That’s, that’s kind of level one of testimonials. But you can take it a step further. When I do testimonial videos for my clients, I interview their clients, my clients’ clients, and I ask them, What problem were you having? Why did you end up choosing Rory to work with? What was it like to work with Rory and what results have you seen working with Rory? And those four questions tell a story, you know, I had a problem, I looked for a solution, getting the solution was great, and the results from it have been great. So I take each testimonial and make a little mini case study video out of it, 90 seconds to two minutes.
ES (40:40):
Then my recommendation to my clients is not to put that, you can put that on your website, but I think it’s better to use that later in the funnel. I think when you’ve got somebody who’s interested in your service but is on the fence, what I like to do is suggest my clients have a library of these videos, you know, have 10 or 12 of all different kinds of clients you worked with, then you’ve got somebody who’s interested but not sure. You say, Let me send you a a little case study of somebody who works in the same industry of you and you could see how, what they felt like working with me. And then you’re not selling, you’re, you’ve got clients sharing a story. They’re not selling either. They’re sharing a story and it’s, it’s incredibly powerful, but there’s more
RV (41:30):
ES (41:31):
But wait, there’s more. When you’ve got a group of these testimonials, each is different, but also they’re all the same. They all had a problem. They all discovered you, they all worked with you, they all saw results. And when you can combine the best moments from each of those interviews and have three or four people talk about the problem, they had three or four people talk about why they used you, and you weave those answers together, you end up with actually what is the brand Builders group homepage video. You’ve got clients telling their stories, you’ve got strategists talking what it’s like working with the clients and you end up with something incredibly persuasive that doesn’t feel like a sales video.
RV (42:21):
Yeah, I mean, and, and it is awesome. I mean, it’s literally on our homepage, brand builders group.com. It’s also the, I think the number one asset that we drive people to online is free brand call.com/podcast. And we use it on all those pages too. Like, because it was just, it’s, it’s amazing. We’re not even in the video. Like me and AJ aren’t even in the video, which is beautiful. It’s like, it’s all the clients and our team members doing exactly what you said. But it’s basically a highlight video of the highlight videos, a bunch of customer testimonials, it really, really com compelling and awesome, and not salesy, just awesome, but it sell, it sells like you wouldn’t believe
ES (43:01):
RV (43:10):
Amen. So
ES (43:11):
It it’s the story, Roy, before, I’m not sure if we’re we’re done, but before we’re done, there’s one other thing I’d like to say. And it’s something that, you know, as a brand builder client, I, I heard very early on that we are best positioned to serve the people we once were. And that was something that never resonated with me early on. I, I just, I didn’t get it. And I think, you know, the reason is kind of obvious. I I hadn’t yet become the person I needed to become in order to help the person I was. And for anybody out there who feels like they have a calling and a message to, to, to give people, but they’re not sure that they’re ready to do it, don’t lose faith. Don’t lose hope. It, it, you, you can get there. I did it with brand builders. You know, brand builders is not the only people who can help you. But but stay with what you believe in and, and you, if you have a message to deliver, you know, there are people that need to hear it.
RV (44:23):
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And we’re not the only people that can help you. We’re just the best. And we have customer testimonial videos to prove it and personal brand videos and, and awesome videos. No, I’m, I’m, I’m just kidding. Kind of, sort of I do actually believe that, but Eric, thank you so much. Like, this is just so helpful, just great tips, helpful for any of us trying to understand this world of video, which, like, for me, I’m just never been a creative per se. And so it’s like I’m passionate about what I teach, but like, when it comes to the visual aesthetic and like all this stuff, it’s just not a skill. I have to like open a video editor and like whip this together. And so having somebody like you sure helps me a lot because I’ll, I’ll say for a lot of my career, I was embarrassed about the videos that I was putting out that would tell people about who, who we were and what we did.
RV (45:17):
And it’s really awesome to, to, to be proud of saying, Hey, you know, when we’re talking to someone, hey, just watch this video and then tell me what you, you know, like knowing they’re gonna be blown away because of the emotion and not because it’s a sales pitch, but because they’re actually gonna feel our real heart. And because the video is going to convey the actual feeling and the emotion of what we’re about. And when that happens, they may not buy, but, but it, they will, I they’re gonna know for sure. They’re either gonna go, You are our, you are my people, or you are not my people, because they feel the energy and, and it makes the decision quick.
ES (45:59):
Attract or repel.
RV (46:00):
Yep.
ES (46:01):
And and I, you know, I wanna just say thank you. You know, I, I’m I I’ve love, I love working with you and a j and I’m very honored that you guys trust me to help you create your, your demo videos and your brand builders videos. It’s it’s a lot of fun. You’ve got great people to work with and, and I’m really honored to that that you feel comfortable working with me.
RV (46:26):
Yeah, well, we do, we, we love working with you and that’s why we wanted to introduce you to everybody. So again, if you need this, shoot us an email, info brand builders group.com, subject line Eric’s videos. We’ll connect you to Eric. If not, hopefully you’ll take some of Eric’s advice and tips, share them with your video editors or if it’s you just as you’re putting together and, and thinking through this. So Eric, we wish you all the best my friend. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and we’ll talk soon.
ES (46:54):
Thanks Rory. Talk to you soon.