Ep 536: 5 Things you Need to Know to Write, Publish and Launch a Bestselling Book with Rory and AJ Vaden
AJV (00:00:02):
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Influential Personal Brand podcast, AJ Vaden here getting to interview my one and only the one, the only Rory Vaden. This is apparently our annual podcast together ’cause we did one last year and we are doing one this year. Y’all, I have asked Rory’s permission to interview him as my guest on this episode because we have found ourselves immersed in this unexpected world of publishing over the last, I mean, really, I guess 15 years now unexpected for me, maybe not for Rory. And as we have discovered some things that we find are really important to us as we’re writing our next book, and as we’ve been working with so many of our clients at Brand Builders Group trying to decipher the best way to publish their book and to write their book, it, it drew out some interest in us of going, maybe, maybe we’re not just authors in this space.
AJV (00:01:05):
Maybe we have a bigger role to play in this space. We’ve published traditionally before. We will not do that next time. I’ll reserve what we are doing as a part of the interview. But through this 15 year, you know, kind of adventure in the world of publishing, we’ve learned a lot. And we wanted to share some of that with you today. And that’s why I invited Roan to be my guest as to help reveal some very exciting things that we have going on in the world of publishing. But to also help everyone understand just the state of publishing. Like what does the industry look like today and what does it take to hit a bestseller list? And what is required of the author versus the publisher, and where are we at? And so that’s what we’re gonna cover today. So if you’re listening and you are thinking to yourself, I wanna write a book one day.
AJV (00:02:01):
This is for you. If you’re listening, going, I’m in the middle of writing a book. This is for you. If you’ve already written a book and you’re in the middle of launching your book, this is for you. So, in other words, anyone who has will or will ever write a book, this episode is curated very specifically for you. So Rory, thank you for setting aside some time to come and talk with me today. This is an added bonus. Get an extra hour of my day with you. Yeah, which is also great, but also I believe that I’m not, I’m not saying this biased because I’m your wife and your business partner, but I believe you have figured out something in the world of publishing that no one else has, has cared to or has done the, the work to. But what you have been able to curate, discover, uncover, and Systematize is nothing short of revolutionary due to a deep desire of knowing how to do this better for yourself and for others. And so that’s what I wanna talk about on the show today. So welcome to your show.
RV (00:03:07):
Thank you, babe. I’m so excited about this. I I’m spending an extra hour with you. Yes.
AJV (00:03:13):
So be super
RV (00:03:14):
Fun. As you know, I’m a nerd. I’m a nerd on this topic. So this was, so this will be so fun.
AJV (00:03:19):
Yeah. And so what I wanna do first really quickly is make sure everyone has like a, a solid background on our history in the publishing world as authors. And so very quickly because we don’t have a ton of time and we have a lot to cover, can you just walk everyone through your journey to becoming a published author? And not just that, but a New York Times bestselling author, and then a follow up with a national bestseller. Walk us through, how’d that come about?
RV (00:03:49):
Yeah, so really quick not talking about it, how it came about. Basically, the first product that I ever produced was like audio CDs. But then the second product was a self-published book. And it was, it was the very first skill that I did where I taught, I did Speaking for Money, was called how to Be Funny to Make More Money. That was the subtitle of the book. So the book was called No Laughs, NO toay it to No Laughs, KNOW, no Laughs to No Laughs, how to Be Funny to Make More Money. And I taught the Psychology of Laughter and what makes people funnier, which was something that I had to learn how to do. And so We Self-published that book in 2007. Then
AJV (00:04:37):
Is this book available for Purchase Anywhere?
RV (00:04:39):
No, we have buried it deep, deep into the archives. ’cause It was truly self-published, which means we controlled all the editorial, we controlled all the creative, we found our own printer, we did everything. We registered the I
AJV (00:04:55):
VM number’s, what it means. That’s what it meant to self-publish. Mm-Hmm
RV (00:05:01):
Yeah. And we, we had to select the type of paper that we used and all the, there’s a hundred million decisions you have to make when you self-publish a book that you don’t even realize you have to make to turn it into a physical book. So, so there was that book Then Take the Stairs. It was a traditionally published book. That was our first traditionally published book that came out from Penguin Random House. Long story that we don’t have time for here about how we got a literary agent, and then how we got a book deal. And then that process took about three years, and then it took about a year to write it, do the presales. We release, take the Stairs in 2012, we hit number one on the Wall Street Journal, best settles number two on the New York Times. Then fast forward to 2015, we also released a second book with Penguin Random House called Procrastinating on Purpose, five Permissions to Multiply Your Time.
RV (00:05:55):
That book was one that we fully expected to be a number one Wall Street Journal bestseller, and and a New York Times bestseller. And we missed both of those lists. And we could not figure out why, which is a part of what l led us to where we are today. But we did hit the, the, the Indie IndieBound National Bestseller List. So it was a national bestseller, even though we did not hit New York Times or USA Today or the Wall Street Journal, which are the big main ones. Then last year we soft released another self-published book, which is a children’s book called Be the Buffalo, which we haven’t even really launched. We just, it, it is available on Amazon, but we haven’t actually done the book launch for it. But we released it so that we could print it for our kids. We used Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing, which is now, you know, the easiest way to self-publish today. And now we have our new book that will be coming out. We’re tentatively slating around July of 2025, which is the book you and I are writing together. And we have left traditional publishing and we are now hybrid publishing. And we can talk more about that, but that’s, hopefully that’s what you’re looking for. Yeah,
AJV (00:07:10):
And I think this is really important, and I think there’s a, a couple of things that just kind of wanna highlight in our journey of publishing is we have now published in all the formats,
AJV (00:08:02):
It’s not what other people said. This is our direct experience. And I think that’s a really important context for the, the rest of this interview today is we have gone through the, the trials tribulations of all different formats of publishing. And our biased opinion is not meant to influence yours, but it’s to give you facts, right? We have our own opinions. We’ll reserve those for private conversations. But we will keep this high level and factual of expectations. And that’s where we wanna start is, you know, today there is a very, very feasible way to get your book published in three very distinct formats. There is traditional publishing, right? Which means you are working with a, you know, a New York publishing house. There is hybrid publishing, which means you have some investment, the publisher has some investment, and then there is self-publishing. And there is no easier time in the history of our country.
AJV (00:09:06):
We live in the United States. So I’m talking specifically about the United States to get your book published than ever before. Right? There, there was a time not that long ago that if you wanted to publish your book, you had one option and they got to decide if your book was good enough to get out into the world. That’s not how it is to today. And that is good, right? That is, that is powerful. Now, it also comes with pros and cons at every diff at, at every different level. And that’s what we really wanna talk about. So here’s my, here’s my question for you, Rory. Can you just break it down and help explain what is self-publishing? What is hybrid publishing and what is traditional publishing in a way that someone who has never gone through this experience could understand at a high level?
RV (00:10:04):
Absolutely. so basically if you start with traditional publishing, there are, here’s the advantages. The advantages are they pay you to write the book. So they pay you in advance against future royalties. And you have to earn out that advance before you ever make more money. But you never have to pay back your advance if you don’t you know, out earn it. So they pay you in advance to write the book. Then they owned the, they own the book. They actually own the, the, the intellectual property of that, those words in that order, which means they have exclusive right of where to print it, how to print it. They get to have final sign off on the title of the book. They get to have final sign off on the editorial, meaning the words in the book and what gets included and what doesn’t get included.
RV (00:10:58):
They also have the final say on the creative editorial, which is like the book cover. The way that the diagrams inside the book are laid out, the, you know, how big the pages are, they control the creative, they control the editorial. They also distribute the book. So they have, there’s a whole network in traditional publishing, which is publishers make the books, and then they, they send those books to distributors. Those distributors send those books out to retailers, and then consumers go and buy those books. And traditional publishers have a sales team that also calls on retailers and set tries to convince retailers to stock their books on the shelves. You know, of what, what’s new and exciting coming out? And it’s like a, there’s a whole chain. Some of the other great things about traditional publishing are the quality of the books is really high.
RV (00:11:59):
It’s the, it’s the, some of the best editors in the world. The distribution is one of the top things, which is that your book becomes available in airports and brick and mortar bookstores and can be translated into other languages. And there’s foreign rights deals, and sometimes those become movies and things. So that’s the, the, the fundamentals of traditional publishing. Let’s talk about self-publishing next, because it’s basically the opposite of all of that. So in self-publishing, you don’t get paid in advance. You have to pay. And why do you have to pay? Because you have to pay to print the books. First of all, you have to pay to write the book, right? So either you’re gonna write it or you’re gonna hire a writer and you’re gonna pay that outta your pocket. Then you’re gonna hire an editor, you’re gonna pay that out of your pocket.
RV (00:12:51):
Then you’re gonna pay someone to lay out the words on a page that’s called type setting. You have to pay for that. Then you pay for the graphic design of putting in the charts and tables and pull quotes. Then you have to pay for the design of the cover. Then once you actually have the book made and you have to find suppliers for all of those pieces, then you have to pay to print the books, right? And, and the good news is that you get to control that. And so the price to print the books might be lower. It might be like, you know, say four to $5 per book if it’s a hardcover book. But if you print 10,000 units at $5 each, you’re, you come out $50,000 just to get 10,000 copies of your own book. So you have to pay all the money, is the downside.
RV (00:13:41):
The upside is you have full control. You get to say whatever you want. You get to have final authority on the cover. The other downside though is you don’t have distribution. Now with Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing, they have made it super easy to do a lot of that stuff. And so your book can be sold through Amazon, but it’s not gonna be in airports. It’s not gonna be in Barnes and Noble. It’s not gonna be in Books a million. It’s not gonna be at, you know, Parnassus independent bookstore in Nashville. Those places are not gonna have that book. And so you’re naturally gonna sell less of those books ’cause fewer people are gonna see them. The other downside of self-publishing is the time it takes to figure all that out and to control all of that. The other downside of self-publishing is your book is not gonna be New York Times bestseller eligible.
RV (00:14:28):
And there’s some reasons why, but predominantly it’s because you will never s have enough books in print available at all the necessary retail stores around the country of where that book needs to be placed so that people could buy it so that it could all report to count for the New York Times. We have, we have figured out, very few people have ever done this, but we have figured out how to help a few self-published authors hit the USA today bestseller list following our system that we teach. And by the way, we work with client. We have done all three, as AJ has mentioned, we also work with clients regularly who do all three. But the dream of being a real national bestseller is, is pretty difficult and it’s basically impossible. There might somehow be a one in a hundred million chance knowing all the things we know that we could pull it off.
RV (00:15:27):
But it’s, it’s, it’s pretty much, and the other thing is the New York Times bestseller list specifically is there’s not only a quantity factor, there’s not only a distribution factor, there is also an editorial factor. That list ultimately is not objective. The New York Times was sued many decades ago, and the way they won the lawsuit was that they publicly said, it’s not an empirical only list. It’s an editorial list. And so they have very high editorial standards and thresholds. And so self-published books don’t usually cross those thresholds, even if they did sell enough volume in the right places on the right times. So you kind of weigh bye-bye to the, the, the, the New York Times, you know, dream. Then there’s hybrid. But
AJV (00:16:10):
Before we move on to hybrid, okay, you wanna preface ’cause there are some self-publishing companies today that really do help orchestrate and organize all of the things that we just said. Totally. So it’s not really that you’re in it on your own anymore. In the self-publishing world, there are many self-publishing entities that have all have, have orchestrated and put that all together for you. I think one of the, the things I think is important to note about self-publishing is really what is the purpose of the book, right? And I think that’s the same question you have to ask as we go through all of these is what am I trying to achieve with this book? What, what’s the purpose, the intended purpose of the book? And that will help a lot of going, is this self-publishing? Is it traditional or is it this, this middle thing called hybrid, which we can talk about now?
RV (00:17:04):
Yeah, so that’s a great point. You know, when we, we self-published our first book, we had to control all of that. We had to make all those decisions. Amazon, Kindle, KDP, Kindle Direct Publishing came on the scene. They have a whole process that helps facilitate a lot of that if you print through Amazon, but then Amazon gets to control the prices and things, but it helps tremendously. But you still get to own your intellectual property. That’s the other big advantage of self-publishing. You own the intellectual property, so you can do whatever you want with that book. You can create derivative products of that book. You have full control. And then when we did our children’s book last year, we used, as AJ mentioned, a vendor who helped coordinate. We paid them to help us with coordinating the self-publishing aspects of it. She was phenomenal.
RV (00:17:52):
We’ve had her on the podcast and I think we’re probably gonna turn, we’re probably gonna create a whole children’s book division here in the future, working with her ’cause she’s so wonderful. So when you get to hybrid publishing, now hybrid publishing is a blend of self-publishing and traditional publishing. So self-published books often are paperback, not always, but often when you do hybrid, you have access. There’s a hybrid publishing company and a lot of hybrid publishing companies are made up of people who used to be in traditional publishing who left traditional publishing for whatever reason, to go work at a hybrid publisher. So they have a whole process to produce a book that looks like a traditionally published book reads like a traditionally published, published book. Feels like a traditionally published book. So if you have a good hybrid publisher, and there’s, you know, there’s a whole gradient range of hybrid publishers and as well as gradient price points that correspond with each of those.
RV (00:18:57):
They a hybrid publisher though, the good ones, you could have your book right next to a book from Jim Collins or John Maxwell or Brene Brown, and you really couldn’t tell much of a difference. Versus with a self-published book, you can almost spot it instantly. And so there’s a brand equity piece of that that ties into this, that hybrid publishers can help you really create. So the big difference between a hybrid and a traditional publisher is that when you hybrid publish, you also have to pay to produce the book. So you’re not getting paid in advance. You have to pay the cost of producing the book. But much like a traditional publisher, you have a highly skilled team that knows how to produce the book. They also typically include editorial. So you get a top notch editor that you don’t have to go source and find yourself.
RV (00:19:52):
They’re usually included in the price that you pay and they help you edit the book. It also typically includes some element of graphic design for typesetting the pages, designing the cover, and it’s kind of sold as a package. Also, things like registering the ISBN number, those are things that, like the hybrid publisher takes care of a lot of the like logistical technicality things that you never know you have to think of. Now, so the downside is you have to pay, but the upside is you own all of the intellectual property, more like self-publishing. So instead of signing away all of your rights, you get to own them, which means if you wanna change the title of your book, if you want to change the interior of the book, if you wanna change the color of the cover, you have full control to do all that in the way you would.
RV (00:20:47):
If you self-published and you own all of the intellectual property rights to create workbooks and quote books and day planners and daytimers and whatever, whatever thing you wanna do, you maintain control of the ip, you can turn that, you know, into any type of coaching program, mastermind consulting, curriculum, et cetera. You need no sign off from the traditional publisher. The other big advantage of hybrid publishing is the cost of the book itself. So when you self publish, you get the books cheaper because you get to choose where they’re printed. When you traditionally publish, you get in advance, but then you have to buy your own book from the publisher. And usually it’s at a discount of retail. It’s usually around 50% off of retail. But like with, even today with Take the Stairs, we have to buy our own books. Like if it’s a hardcover, take the Stairs book, it costs us like $12 to buy our own book.
RV (00:21:49):
When you hybrid publish, you get to buy the books at much closer to a cost, which means, and the reason why this matters is because if you sell the books, you know, there’s two ways to sell. There’s to sell through retail channels, like stores like Amazon, Barnes and Noble Books, Ilion, you know, airports, independent bookstores, that’s retail channels. But then there are direct sales channels which are like through your website or at the back of a room when you’re speaking or to your consulting clients where they buy directly from you and they pay you when you do self-publishing or hybrid publishing. You know, people say you can’t make money from books, and that’s actually not at all true when you self-publish or hybrid publish. In fact, one of my mentors, Zig Ziglar said, the way to know which type of publishing you should do is you should ask yourself, do you wanna get rich or do you wanna get famous?
RV (00:22:43):
If you wanna get famous, you should tra you should try to traditionally publish. If you wanna get rich, you should self-publish. But Zig told me that before the world of hybrid publishing emerged. And so what hybrid publishing allows you to do is to kind of get famous, but also get rich because the other advantage of hybrid publishing is so, so, so that’s normal hybrid publishing, okay? Is you pay for the book, but you own the ip, you get the books at discount, but they can be but they look like traditionally published books even though you still have full control. And then do you want to talk about why we went into hybrid publishing?
AJV (00:23:28):
Not yet. Okay. I think that, you know, as we’re kind of like going through this interview, there’s really five things that you need to know to write, publish, and launch a bestselling book, right? And that’s what this whole episode about. And the first thing that we’ve been talking about is publisher type. I mean, that’s the first thing that you really have to decide is like, what, what publisher type of, because that’s a really important factor of if you wanna have a bestselling book. And so back to purpose and intent, perhaps that’s not what you care about. I think there is a reason of why to have one that we can talk about. But that’s the first, the first thing. The second thing, these are in no particular order is the marketing of the book. The, the third is the selling of the book.
AJV (00:24:08):
The fourth is pub dates when you actually publish the book. And the fifth is actually making money with the book, which is ROI, which Roy just mentioned. And as we go through this interview, you’re gonna get all five of these things. But I think one thing that’s really helpful to, just to kind of sum up this first one, which is publisher type, is to think about it like this. My good friend Alison Trobridge, who has a hybrid publishing company and a self-publishing company, and also an app called Copper Books. I love how she phrases it. She goes, you have to think about self-publishing like a bootstrapped entrepreneur, right? You’re figuring it out as you fall off the cliff, right? You’re building it as you go and you’re self-funding the whole thing, right? It’s a bootstrapped entrepreneur. Skip to self-publishing. It’s like private equity, right? Or
RV (00:24:53):
Sorry, skip from self-publishing. To which one? To traditional traditional publishing.
AJV (00:24:57):
Traditional publishing. And it’s like private equity, right? It’s like you better come with a well-vetted plan of how you’re gonna market and sell the book, and they only wanna invest on a sure thing, right? They want proof. They wanna know how you’re gonna make money. This is a private equity, you make pennies on the dollar, but they make a lot, right? It’s private equity. Then you have hybrid publishing, which is like a business partnership, right? And there’s a time and a place for all of those. But I think that if you can just go, okay, bootstrapped entrepreneur, self-publishing business partnership, right? We both have skin in the game here, there, this is a true partnership that’s hybrid. And then private equity is like a traditional publisher. If you just wanna kind of categorically think about ’em that way, it will help you just kind of go like, where do I fit based on my audience size my investment abilities my, my writing abilities, my timelines, the purpose of the book all of those things really go into this really huge conversation of publisher type. Now as Rory mentioned we are in the middle of writing our next book and we, it will be a hybrid publisher published book. But there’s more to that story because we ourselves have gotten into the hybrid publishing space. So in January of 2024 we, this is a, a sister company, it’s an extension of Brand builders group. We launched our own hybrid publishing imprint called Mission Driven Press. Now Rory, why did we do that? Like why did we get into the hybrid publishing space?
RV (00:26:36):
Great question. And by the way, if you go to mission-driven press.com, there’s a great table that shows you the advantages and disadvantages of self-publishing, hybrid publishing, and traditional publishing all in one table that we put together. So it sort of summarizes what we’ve been talking about so far at mission-driven press.com. So why did we get into tradit or hybrid publishing? Why would we leave one of the biggest publishers in the world where we got, you know, we were earning over six figures in advances and we hit the New York Times bestseller list. Why would we leave that and go back to hybrid publishing? Well, there’s a few reasons why in general, hybrid publishing is a great avenue for people who are entrepreneurial minded, people who know how to run a business and know how to market, know how to sell, and know how to make money.
RV (00:27:29):
Hybrid is really good because you get the quality and the gravitas of a, of a really, you know, beautiful book that looks like a New York published book. But you get the profit and the, the return on investment the way you do with more of like a self-published book. It’s more of an investment. It’s you’re investing in and you’re getting a return. The reason why we didn’t hybrid publish sooner is because typically historically hybrid publishing books were not eligible for the New York Times bestseller list. And there’s kind of a couple reasons why I think that is. One was that they, they often didn’t meet the editorial standards of New York Times, which are extremely high, extremely high. You might think you’re a great writer, but like it’s a whole different level to, to get the New York Times to sign off on your book, editorially speaking. But the other reason is more practical, it’s more functional, which is in order to become a New York Times bestselling author, first of all, it takes a huge number of units sold in a week.
RV (00:28:44):
And this is something we’ve spent years figuring out and just trying to understand because it’s, it’s a, it’s, they don’t publish much information about how it works. And so, you know, we’ve put together a team that tries to understand what are the ethical rules that the New York Times wants people to play by, and how much does it really take to hit the New York Times? And I’ll share with you a key data point. This is a proprietary data point that’s been compiled by our data science team internally that in the year 2023, okay, if you look at the, a full calendar year of 2023 on average, the average book that hit the New York Times the first time it hit sold 18,401 units in a week on average. So just that alone says you have to move a lot of units, but you also have, those units have to be sold in a variety of different places.
RV (00:29:41):
This is a term known as distribution, meaning it can’t just be 18,000 units sold through Amazon. There’s gotta be the New York Times. Apparently nobody knows for sure. This is a little bit like the Google algorithm, like we don’t, nobody knows for sure, but we’re using the hints they give us along with experience to kind of create a validating set of triangulated hypotheses that then become proven over time. But they have to be sold in lots of places. And self-published books are not sold in lots of places. They’re usually sold on Amazon and through your own shopping cart and your own shopping cart. Sales don’t count for New York Times because the New York Times only recognizes certain reporting retailers. And the industry leans heavily on something called BookScan. And only certain retailers report to BookScan. So your direct sales are good while you make money on them.
RV (00:30:32):
They do not count for the major bestseller lists when you sell through your website. The only sales that count are the officially recognized sales that happen through retail reporting outlets, typically that report through book scan and or the New York Times. So you have to sell a huge number of units. And in order to sell a huge number of units, you have to have a huge number of units in print. Most self published books. And most hybrid publishers are never gonna print that level of inventory. ’cause It’s a huge risk, right? I mean, imagine if you were the publisher, if it was self-published to go, I’m gonna print 20,000 books at $5 each, that’s a hundred thousand dollars just to have enough inventory available to even have a chance. And it’d be super risky on the editorial side. And that’s, and most hybrid publishers also won’t make that investment.
RV (00:31:19):
So most self-publishing never has the distribution necessary to hit like the New York Times. And almost all hybrid publishers also do not have the distribution required to hit the New York Times. That is traditionally that the historically that has been a feature set that only belonged to traditional publishing, they had distribution. Remember they have that channel of, they sell to distributors who sell to retailers who te sell to consumers. Those sales report through BookScan, and they were, those retailers report to the New York Times. And that was a feature set only available to traditional publishing. About two years ago, our team started to notice something very unusual. We noticed a hybrid publishing company that hit the New York Times repeatedly. They hit with, and they were signing pretty big authors like Glen Beck John Maxwell, Joan London like Mike and Peggy Rowe. And these are major books that were, that were hybrid published that were hitting the New York Times.
RV (00:32:33):
So we established contact with them. We wanted to figure out what was going on here. How is this pulling, how are they pulling this off? You know, because previous to a couple years ago, we’d always been told it was impossible. And we had never seen evidence that it was possible. Well, as we built a relationship with this team, we came to found out, find out something incredibly powerful. This company was started by some very high powered tra, formerly traditional publishing executives. And they were able to structure an arrangement where they are a hybrid publisher, but their books are edited. They have the, the editorial level of like a, a a, a major five New York publisher. And they actually have distribution through Simon and Schuster. So it’s not like Simon and Schuster. It is Simon and Schuster. It is a hybrid published book that is printed on Simon and Schuster Printing presses.
RV (00:33:39):
It is shipped from the Simon and Schuster warehouse. The Simon and Schuster sales team calls on retailers the way they would for a normal Simon and Schuster book. And those, it, it has the same distribution chain, the supply chain, so to speak, as a, as an actual traditionally published Simon and Schuster book. And that is why they were hitting the New York Times. They figured out a way to where hybrid publishing could move one step closer to traditional publishing, but it stays just inside the line of traditional publishing in that you own your ip, you control the creative, the author gets to determine the title. But then here’s the other awesome thing that they do. The author doesn’t have to pay to print all the books the publisher pays to print to, to, they pay for the initial print run to satisfy the initial retail estimated sales.
RV (00:34:38):
That is another massive feature set that historically was only available through traditional publishing. So that is when the world changed, is we said, this version of hybrid publishing is as close to traditional publishing. It’s all the editorial, it’s the distribution, it’s the supply chain, it’s being bestseller list eligible. It’s producing a book that is world class, you know, with an an in. You cannot tell the difference between it and, and a normal major book. And yet you can own the IP control, the creative. Now you do still have to pay the cost. So that’s the one sort of, the one sort of downside is you still have to pay because you have to pay to produce the book. But there’s all these other things. And that was when AJ and I said we think with that week. So we started a partnership with them. We created our own imprint, which is called Mission-Driven Press. And so now we offer hybrid publishing through Mission-Driven Press, but that has distribution through Simon and Schuster and has all the editorial and all of these things. And so we said, we’ll go first as authors. We believe in this so much we’re going to abandon traditional publishing, which was something we spent years of our life. It was a desperate dream of mine to do. And we’re abandoning that for what we believe is more of the future, at least for our audience, which is hybrid publishing. And that’s why we started Mission-Driven Press,
AJV (00:36:13):
You know, and I think it’s really important ’cause I think the, the whole concept of being able to, you know, have a legitimate bestselling book that is truly bought by other humans, which is a really important part of the integrity of the process was a really validating moment of this is a space that we could really get into. The other really validating moment for us was, and I think that most really successful brands, no matter what they are they succeed because they really, they were really solving a problem for themselves. And they realized that if they had that problem, others did too. And I think one of the things that made me want to get into this is when we went through years and continue to go through years of trying to make editorial changes to Rory’s previous books, including titles and covers and being told, I know that it’s your book, but no, can’t change the title, can’t change the cover, can’t change the words in the book.
AJV (00:37:13):
No. And it’s like, but we have, we have all this proof of if we did these things that would, it would make, it would, it would have a big impact. It would make more sales. You would make more money. Publisher. The answer is no. And realizing that even though you wrote the book and it’s your ip, what what really happens in traditional publishing is you sell your ip, it’s no longer yours. And to have that realization before, during, and after, as, as anyone who’s a content creator, and I just wanna put it in a a personal context of, you know, those are your stories and you are giving them away in exchange for dollars and cents, right? They’re not yours anymore. The those frameworks, those points, the stories the content is no longer yours. And many times, not even the derivative rights to do more things with that, you have sold that for a payment.
AJV (00:38:05):
It’s no longer yours. And I don’t know if people really understand that as they step into that. And that was a very eye-opening moment for us when we had all this statistical proof and data of how all of these other things that were happening with a different title change would move the needle. And, and we can’t, we couldn’t, we were told no, because at the end of the day, it’s not really ours anymore. And the thing that was again, something we’re like, man, this should never happen again, is believing that no editor has the right to tell you that this can’t be published when it’s yours. Sorry, this part of that story, I know it’s true, but it’s too much for here, right? These words, that name can’t use those. And that’s a, that’s a really sobering moment for the accuracy of your story and the heart of your content.
AJV (00:38:57):
And just realizing as a content creator that you are giving that up for a paycheck. And sometimes that’s okay and in others it’s not. And when it’s not having a good alternative, like a hybrid publisher really made a lot of sense. And so that, that’s another component of just realizing those mm-hmm,
AJV (00:39:46):
How do you actually do that? Right? And I don’t care if you’re self hybrid or traditional, how do you do that? Because that doesn’t matter. It’s the same amount of work, right? To make that hell happen. But I think one of the things that is really important to note is that there is a huge gap and this is across all three options, self, hybrid, and traditional. No one actually knows how to market and sell their book
AJV (00:40:49):
What’s the work involved, what’s the investment involved? What’s actually required to sell enough book books to take a run at a bestseller list? But then also I think it’s a equally as important thing to realize. The other big gap was just knowing when to do it right? Because so many things in life, it’s all about timing. Launching your book is no different. It’s about timing. And I think that as we stepped into this and that’s why this is really a sister company, a brand builders group, which is a personal brand strategy firm. This is the fulfillment side of book strategy, right? But you gotta have a good writing plan, a good writing strategy. You have to have a good publishing strategy that’s mission-driven press. But there also had to be a good sales and marketing strategy to go and execute. And what authors don’t realize is that authors are the salespeople, you know?
AJV (00:41:46):
And I think that is where we really said, Hey, we we’re gonna fill this gap that’s clearly missing. There is no mystery of what it takes to sell books. It’s just some people choose not to do it, whether they don’t know it or they choose not to do it, right? And that you can be in either category but there, there is not a secret. It takes work. And that work is very specific. So Roy, if we could just move in for the, the next 10 minutes to talk about the sales and marketing side of what it actually takes to have a bestselling book, that would be great. And if we could also incorporate the timing component, right? So when we think about marketing, selling and the timing of those things, the nuance of that what, what would you tell the audience is the most important thing to know about how to market your book, how to sell your book, and when to publish your book?
RV (00:42:37):
Mm-Hmm.
RV (00:43:47):
And we’ve seen this time and time again. So one of the things, if you really want your book to be a bestseller, first of all, I think high level, you gotta understand the big buckets of what’s going on here. And so we talk about, again, at mission driven press.com, we sort of lay this out. There’s four, like when people say I wanna write a book, there’s actually four major phases of that project. Phase one is writing the book. Historically, brand Builders group has always been able to assist people with writing the book. We help them find their uniqueness, we help them create their frameworks, we create the big idea. We can help them create an outline for it. We can introduce them to ghost writers if they need them. But you, it’s writing the book. That’s like stage one. Stage two is publishing the book, which is, you know, publishers don’t sell books.
RV (00:44:40):
Publishers make books. Publishers don’t know much about selling books. You a lot of authors think they would, but that’s not what publishing is. Publishing is about making books. It’s about the editorial, it’s about the distribution, it’s about the, the, all the million decisions about what makes a great book. But it’s not so much about selling it. And, and that’s a big mistake that people make. So inside of publishing the book, there are the three options we’ve talked about mostly on this podcast, right? That’s what we’ve been talking about. Stage three is selling the book. So you write the book, then you publish the book, but now you gotta sell the book. And this is where our deepest level of expertise is at Brand Builders Group is teaching people a replicable system, a duplicatable system, a proven system to get real humans to buy your book.
RV (00:45:34):
And when I say we have a system for this, as of last week, we help our 51st brand builders group client, who has followed our system and become a New York Times Wall Street Journal, or USA today national bestselling author. We’ve done that over 50 times in the last couple years. And what we don’t do is we don’t tell authors to buy their own books. If anyone ever says what you should do is buy your own books that you should run, right? Number one, it’s very risky to do that. And it’s number two, there’s some questionable ethics around buying your own books just to make them count for the bestseller list. But number three, it doesn’t accomplish the actual goal, which is changing lives, helping people, and also building your brand and your business. So what we do is we teach a system and there’s seven main mechanisms that we teach people for how to sell books, okay?
RV (00:46:33):
And we can, we’ll deep dive on those for a minute here. But then you have stage four, which is processing the books or reporting the books. So you write the book, writing the book, publishing the book, selling the book, and then reporting the sales. And when it comes to where the rubber meets the road of making sure your sales report you know, to become a bestseller list or become a bestselling author, you have to make sure that your sales, whatever sales you generate, whether that’s 50 books or 5,000 or 50,000 books happen in the appropriate way so that they get recognized by the reporting outlets. We’re not trying to game the system, we’re not trying to cheat, we’re not trying to lie. We’re not trying to make it look like you’re selling more books than you are. We’re just trying to make sure that every single hard earned sale that you created gets counted and that’s it, right?
RV (00:47:29):
So that’s what we’re trying to do. And, and so we actually provide that service for free for any of anyone who’s a brand builders group client, whether they publish with mission driven press or not. If we’re helping you write the book or we’re doing the sales strategy, we do that part because we want your hard earned work to be recognized. We’re not really in the just the business of doing that. We just do that as a service because there’s a lot of people who do it wrong, and there’s a lot of misconceptions and frankly, there’s a lot of shadiness around it and a lot of disorganization and a lot of people have lost a lot of money. And so we just said, we’re gonna just take care of this piece and we’re gonna provide it for free. And we don’t care if you sell 10,000 or a hundred thousand or 10 books.
RV (00:48:10):
I mean, we do, we wanna help you sell. I just mean it’s not like we will only provide that service to like the big famous authors we work with. We provide it for everybody because we were, we were aspiring authors at one point too. So that’s the four stages. Now, if we zi deep dive here, what AJ’s asking about is how do we sell books? That’s stage three. What are the mechanisms? Okay, so I already told you the biggest thing that does not sell a lot of books is PR and social media, which is ironic because that’s what everybody thinks will sell books. And, and I just wanna spend a minute on this. PR is very important. PR is huge for brand building. If you do PR right? It can be huge for list building, but pr in and of itself, going on Good Morning America and thinking that’s gonna sell all your books is not a very good strategy because it’s very, very difficult to get that slot.
RV (00:49:07):
And when you get, when you get that slot, if you get that slot, which is, you know, one in a one in a hundred thousand, you, you’ll be shocked at how little books it sells. And we have, we have clients every week who are on like every month for sure that are on Good Morning America, Fox News, today’s show, you know, various things with Oprah. And you know, several of the biggest podcasters in the world are clients of ours, right? Louis Howes and Amy Porterfield and Ed Millet. We know exactly how many books are sold from being on those shows, but a national TV hit usually sells somewhere between 800 to 1200 units. So it’s not nothing, right? But it’s a very far cry from 18,000 units. If you’re trying to make a run outta New York Times or, you know, tens of thousands of units, if you’re trying to change the world, it’s not gonna happen that way. So
AJV (00:49:56):
Now there are a couple of PR mediums that we have seen that are better to do such as podcasts,
RV (00:50:04):
Right? Yeah. Podcasts are a high return on the buck for how small the audience is. So like the biggest podcast in the world typically are not gonna move as much as a Good Morning America hit, but the audience they’re reaching is much smaller. So as a percentage, because you go, you know, let’s take our book about personal branding. If we’re on a podcast that only has a hundred thousand downloads, but all a hundred thousand people are entrepreneurs will sell way more books to a hundred thousand entrepreneurs who listen to us on a 30 minute podcast interview than we will being on Good Morning America reaching millions of people for a three minute segment of which only a small fraction of them are entrepreneurs. So podcasts actually are a great strategy because one of the things that we talk about is you have to think of your online audience as an offline room.
RV (00:50:57):
And sometimes authors go, oh, I don’t wanna be on that podcast. It’s a small podcast. It, it only gets, you know, a thousand downloads a month. But if you were standing on stage in front of a thousand people, you probably would take that opportunity. You probably would be excited about that. And that’s more of what podcasts are like. It’s a thousand people focused on you giving you their full attention for 20, 30, 40 minutes. So we’re big fans of podcasts. Now you have to have strategies for how to convert those. And this is what it comes down to. I know we’re running short on time. Here’s how you sell books incentives in one word. The secret is incentives. And what you do is you give people additional incentives to order the book. And I’ll just share with you a really quick tip here. Here’s how to sell 50,000 books.
RV (00:51:51):
I can teach you this in 60 seconds. What you do is you get 10,000 people to buy one copy. And so you give some people some extra incentives. If they buy one copy, then you get a thousand people. You try to find a thousand people who will buy 10 copies. And so you come up with a few more incentives that they get if they buy 10 copies, and then we wanna get a hundred people to each buy a hundred copies and they get a really big incentive, and that’s another 10,000 units. Then you wanna find 10 people who will each buy a thousand copies. That’s another 10,000 copies. A great incentive there would be to like give away a speech and say, Hey, if you buy a thousand copies of my book, I’ll come speak or I’ll make an appearance or something like that. And then if you can, you try to find one person who would buy 10,000 copies, you know, and that might be like $300,000. So you’d have to give them some really, really, really big incentives. But you
AJV (00:52:49):
Let us know when you find those people because we would like to meet them
RV (00:52:53):
And, and, and, and there are those people out there. There are those people indeed. So incentives and that’s part of what our team helps you do is help you think through those strategies, think through those incentives. We’ve got templates and scripts and examples. But the point is, get real people to buy your book. And yes, we’ll use incentives to help them, but people know they’re buying books, we’re talking about the book. They’re real humans with real transactions. And you’re doing the hard work it takes to create a movement and change lives. And if all goes well, our team will help make sure hopefully those sales get reported properly and hopefully those sales get counted. And you get listed as a bestselling author and we’ve got a great track record of doing it because we’re trying to do it the right way. We’re trying to do it. We openly, honestly, in transparency with retailers, with publishers and with authors, it’s not about trying to just buy your own books to game the system. It’s doing the work it takes to tell the world about your book and that your book deserves to have that work.
AJV (00:53:57):
Yeah, and I would say one of the things I think it’s really important to kind of sum a lot of that up is like, that is sales. Y’all
AJV (00:54:50):
But that is at the end of the day, what moves books. We do this all day, every day with new authors every single day, every week having launches. And I can tell you right now, the people who go, I will sell my book, those are the books that sell
RV (00:55:20):
Well, you know, on this point, Robert Kiyosaki had a, a great quote on this. He said, you have to remember, it’s not called New York Times Best Writing Author. It’s New York Times best Selling author. This is a sales game. And like anything, whoever is selling the most is, is, is getting the word out there. And by the way, we do this for new authors. We also do this for the biggest authors in the world, right? John Maxwell, ed Millet, Lewis Howes, Amy Porterfield. Like we have helped Eric Thomas et the hip hop preacher, we’ve helped some of the most reputable, credible personal brands in the world build their brand by helping them do this stuff. We’ve had three of our clients have followed our system and pre-sold a hundred thousand copies of their book, like Pre-sold during their launches. So this stuff works at the highest level and it works if you’re just starting out.
RV (00:56:15):
But you know, the reason you would wanna be a bestseller is statistically you make, you make a lot more money in advances, in speaking fees. You get better media opportunities. I mean, look, you know, just to use Lewis Howes as an example, ’cause he’s a client and a close friend. Everybody wants to be on Lewis Howes podcast, everybody, it’s one of the biggest podcasts in the world. And every week his team gets flooded with books that get mailed to them. And when they open those books, there’s two piles. There’s the no pile, and there’s the maybe pile. Being a New York Times bestselling author doesn’t automatically put you in a, some type of a yes pile, but it pretty much almost always puts you automatically in the maybe pile. So you’re gonna separate, you know, it’s the, the, the, what is it, the wheat from the shaft.
RV (00:57:03):
Like you get separated from the crowd, that you get a real, legitimate, honest look by literary agents, by public publicists, by speaking opportunities by ma you know, being invited to be in part of, you know, VIP groups and stuff like that. But I do wanna just leave everybody with this, aj. It’s really important to know that you should do this and we’re really good at it, and we teach you straightforward practices that are ethical. There’s no, there’s no manipulation, there’s no deception. It is just hard work. But we give you the templates, we give you the tools. That’s what our clients pay us for. And you should want to do this because you want to sell a lot of books, right? But you have to remember bestseller lists. Don’t change lives, but books do bestseller lists. They don’t really change lives. They might change your life.
RV (00:58:01):
If anything, they’ll change one person’s life. They’ll change the author’s life. But nobody on the world, nobody in the world cares. If you’re a bestselling author, they care about, can you help me? Can you, could you have advice, insights, inspiration that will help me in my life? But either way, to reach a lot of people, you need to do the work of getting the book out there. So bestseller lists are fun to go after. They are meaningful. They, they do, they do matter, but they’re not the thing. Nowhere near are they the ultimate goal here. You know, they’re a fun game as a checkpoint to kind of go after. But this is about changing lives. This is about helping people. This is about making a difference in the world, and it’s also about helping you build your brand and your business by getting your, your message out there. So we try to, you know, we wanna pursue bestseller lists. We think that we’re pretty good at it. We got a strong track record, but it’s not the end goal. It’s, it’s a side goal of going, let’s help you get your book into many people’s hands as possible so that your book can make the world a better place. That’s what this is about. That’s why you started bestseller lists. Don’t Change Lives, but Books do.
AJV (00:59:12):
Yeah, and I would just add, like, why would you wanna do all of this? It’s a calling, right? You can’t not, amen. It’s a calling. It’s something that’s been placed on your heart that you feel like you have something that has the power to help someone else. And having it in writing words on pages it matters because you know that if somebody else reads it, it can help them. It’s a calling. And it has to be that first because then all the work is worth it. And it doesn’t know, it doesn’t matter how many copies are sold, it’s worth it knowing that it could potentially change the trajectory of someone else’s life. It’s a calling. That’s why you do it. And so we’re so excited to be a part of Mission-Driven Press. We’re so excited to be able to more deeply serve our community.
AJV (01:00:01):
And if you are an aspiring author or you’re in the middle of writing that book or you’ve got your book done and you’re trying to launch it, I would encourage you guys go check out our website, mission driven press.com, fill out our author form and tell us about your book. So Mission-Driven Press. There is a form that says, tell us about your book. If it’s a future book. It’s a book in motion. It’s a book heading into launch at any stage. We wanna hear about it, see how we can come alongside you, see what we can do to help you get that book into the hands of people that it can help. So, mission-driven press.com. Fill out the form. And y’all, thank you so much for listening. Rory, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Everyone else, we will see you next time on the influential personal brand.
Ep 347: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 2
RV (00:00):
But I do wanna share with you the two things for how I stopped, how I actually stopped drinking. And the first one is really important. It was, it’s to rewrite your programming. Rewrite your programming. And there’s an entire chapter on this. Take the stairs. It’s called the Creation Principle of Integrity. And it talks about how our words are, what are the, the first step in creating our lives? Like your, the human brain is a computer. It is a program your brain is happy to do. Whatever you tell it to do. It will. And, and so here’s what’s important. Don’t try to convince yourself to artificially not do something that you really do wanna do. Instead, realize that you naturally won’t do the things you don’t wanna do. So don’t try to convince yourself not to do something you do wanna do.
RV (01:01):
Realize that you naturally won’t do something you don’t wanna do. So here’s what I mean. If you, if you tell yourself, I love alcohol, alcohol makes me relax, alcohol makes me happy, alcohol makes me comfortable. I need alcohol. Cause I had a hard day. If you tell yourself those things, they will be true for you. So when you, when that is your base programming, and then you try to change your behavior on top of that, it’s in conflict. Cuz you’re going, oh, I can’t drink for 30 days cuz I’m on this thing. Or, you know, I made a resolution. I’m not gonna drink for a little bit. The the issue there is your, your mindset. The is, is the behavior doesn’t align with the programming. Underneath you’re saying, I like alcohol, I want alcohol. That’s what the program is. And then you’re trying to create behavior that is in, in conflict with that saying, but I don’t wanna drink or I’m not gonna drink.
RV (01:54):
So you’re denying yourself something. The actual way to change your behavior is to change the root programming. Because if you convince yourself, I don’t like alcohol, I don’t want to drink, then it’s much easier to have the behavior fall in line because you’re not going against the programming of your brain. So this sounds incredibly simple and it is simple. It’s not easy, but it’s credible, incredibly simple. If you wanna stop any habit in your life or change any habit in your life, or stop any negative thing, you have to attack the underlying programming. How do you do that? Simple. It’s what you tell yourself over and over and over again. All you believe, you listen. Your brain does not believe what is true. Your brain believes whatever you tell it most often, whatever you tell it most often is what becomes true. I guarantee it.
RV (02:48):
And so I wanna read for you, I’m just gonna read for you my, you know, I call these my alcohol affirmations, which they’re really my non-alcohol affirmations. I just wanna, I’m just gonna read them to you because this is what I read to myself like every day for the first few weeks. And after a couple weeks, I didn’t have to read it anymore. My desire for alcohol disappeared. Right? So here it is. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work. Alcohol makes me less likely to achieve my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol weakens my decision. Making alcohol makes me more vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the, the chance of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I will eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp and active the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the, and the Lord.
RV (04:35):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to drink alcohol in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or none at all not drinking alcohol. Lengthens the length, lengthens the term of my effectiveness and my success. Alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And so
RV (05:14):
If you will just
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Say those things over and over again, I mean, that’s what I did. It changes the programming. It replaces your programming in your head, and it, it changes everything because now you’re building new behaviors on, you’re on a new foundation, and they’re not working against
RV (05:32):
Each other.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They’re working with each other. They’re working alongside each other. And, right, like the more I said those things, those that affirmations list that
RV (05:42):
I just shared with you, the more I believed it to
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Be true. And the more I
RV (05:45):
Felt like it really was true,
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And the more
RV (05:49):
That I felt it really was true, the less desire I actually had to ever do it. And so I wasn’t like, I know where I am now. It’s, it’s weird to fast forward ahead six years and go you know, who I was back then and was like, man, I looked forward. Like I looked forward to drinking. It was like the thing I was looking forward to at the end of the week, or even at the end of a day, like, gosh, I can’t wait to just like go home and have a drink. And now it’s like, I don’t want it. I’m not drawn to it. The desire is not there because the programming has changed. And so, you know, that’s what I want you to really like, think about with whatever change it is that you wanna make in your life. And you know, replacing your programming.
RV (06:36):
So, you know, first, first of all, you gotta, you gotta redefine your identity. Then you gotta rewrite your programming. And then the last thing is is you gotta replace your choices. And there’s, there’s two key choices that I’ve made on this journey, at least for me, that were, were really pivotal and they both have to do with replacements. And so the first one was just literally replacing what I was holding in my hand and giving myself more options. Because the, that’s the, the hard part is going, oh, well, when I’m out at dinner, I’m used to holding wine and or, you know, like, I come home at the end of the day and it’s like, oh, I, you know, I, I wanna, I wanna have a drink of some type. And so, you know, what I’m grabbing for is important to sort of have that replacement.
RV (07:27):
So here’s some simple replacements that made a big difference for me. So instead of drinking beer, drink Topo Chico specifically was what I would do because it was a glass bottle and I would pop it, it makes the same, you know, it’d make the, the same sound as popping open a bottle of beer and then you know, drinking that or sparkling water, right? So sparkling water was a, was a in instead of wine drink sparkling water. So instead of beer drink, Topo Chico is a glass bottle. Instead of wine, what I do is I drink sparkling water and then I will either add or sparkling apple juice or sparkling grape juice. And that is like what, what I would have like even now when I’ll go out to dinner, like what I’ll order, oftentimes I’ll order sparkling water with a splash of cranberry juice.
RV (08:23):
And so it’s super healthy. Often it’s free. I mean, you know, like, or it’s, it’s nowhere near the cost of a, of a cocktail. Now, if I really want a cocktail, what I will do is I’ll order a mock. And so almost every bartender loves making mocktails cuz they don’t get asked for it that often. And you say like, Hey, make me something fancy or whatever. So if I’m at let’s say we’re in Mexico by the pool or something, you know, and it’s like, I really wanna have a something, you know, like I’ll go, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll have a, have a have a fancy, a fancy mocktail. And that’s just a simple, a simple replacement. So instead of beer, I had Topo Chico. Instead of like wine, I’d have sparkling grape juice. And instead of a cocktail, I would get sparkling water with like a splash of cranberry or just, or just a mocktail.
RV (09:11):
So those are easy choices, but the, the more, the more difficult choice and frankly the more powerful choice. And the more important choice was that for me in my life, there were two people specifically that I identified that I needed to replace. Not so much like replace the people I needed to replace the time I was spending with these two individuals. And so when I looked back on, you know, the regrets that I had and me being drunk, and then I looked and said, well, gosh, there’s this very common thread that there’s these two specific people in my life that when I’m around them, I am drunk. It’s like sort of what we do. And it’s, it became the modality and the way of operating. And so, you know, rather than trying to change what they’re doing or change their behavior, I just basically said I have to replace myself out of that circumstance.
RV (10:09):
And most of the time in life, I’m a big believer, like I’m a big believer that usually you don’t need to change your circumstance, you need to change your attitude. Like usually that is, is what my default is. And what, even when I coach people and coach myself, like usually it’s not the circumstance that it’s is the problem. It’s your attitude. That’s the problem. And so you need to change your, you need to change your attitude, not your circumstance. But in this case, and whenever you’re trying to change like a physical behavior, it’s really important to change your physical surroundings. When you’re trying to change a physical behavior. It’s important to change the physical surroundings. Same thing, right? Like when you, when you’re trying to lose weight, I’ve been on that journey as well. It’s like I can’t have chips and cookies and bread and crackers and pretzels and everything just like a right there at my disposal to grab, because otherwise I’ll grab them, right?
RV (11:04):
So I have to change the environment. It’s sort of the same, same thing here, which is really tough. These were two people in my life that it was like we got together and we got drunk. And I can’t do that anymore, right? When I’m, when I’m making a change. And so what goal do you have in your life? What thing do you aspire to? Who are you looking to become? And it might be that you need to replace yourself out of a situation and you need to put yourself in another situation. You gotta change your environment. You gotta change your circumstance. Like literally change your environment. And so that was, that was a big, that was a big thing for me. And so that is how I have done it, right? And it, it hasn’t been very hard actually. Like the first few weeks were hard, but the, you know, you redefine your identity and you figure out, okay, why does this matter to me?
RV (11:56):
Not somebody else telling me I should, but, but why do I care? I listed my seven reasons of, of what, why it mattered to me personally. You only need one, right? You just, but you need one good one that matters to you. And you gotta be doing it for you. Like, if you’re making changes in your life because of someone else or cuz you think you’re supposed to, it’s not gonna be sustainable because you’re, it’s, you’re not changing your identity. You change your identity by changing your purpose and changing your why and deciding, I’ve got a reason to become a different person and that’s my reason, not yours. Not someone else’s, not some rule or some, you know, principle that I think I’m, I’m supposed to uphold or do. But it’s like a genuine, like, I’m rewriting, I’m redefining my identity. Then I gotta rewrite my programming, which to me is, is the most practical part of this.
RV (12:51):
And it’s reading those affirmations. And it might mean that you have to play this back you know, play this recording back and just listen to them. In fact, what I’m gonna do at the end is I’m gonna say ’em again so that they’re, you can, if you just need to like fast forward and you just wanna play these, I I’m, I’m gonna read ’em again. And, and then the third thing is that you have to replace your choices. You gotta replace your choices and give yourself art alternatives be in different circumstances, environments. And I I do have one last thing I wanna share with you too. But before I do that, let me go ahead and read, read these affirmations for you one more time. Alcohol makes my body soft. Alcohol slows me down. Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to work.
RV (13:39):
Alcohol puts me in a less than optimum state to compete towards achieving my goals. Alcohol makes me sleep less. Alcohol, alcohol weakens my decision making alcohol makes me vulnerable to a physical attack. Alcohol puts me at risk of a dui. Alcohol increases my caloric intake. Alcohol increases the risk of me doing something dishonoring to my wife. Alcohol raises the likelihood that I’ll eat other bad food. Alcohol costs me money. Alcohol steals from my retirement account. Alcohol gives me headaches. Alcohol affects my ability to be sharp the next day. Alcohol reduces my desire to exercise. Alcohol exposes me more to disease and cancer. Alcohol is poison to my body. Alcohol shortens my lifespan. Alcohol risks my reputation. Alcohol sometimes causes me to say things I later regret. Alcohol sometimes causes me to do things that are dishonoring to my family, my team, myself and the Lord.
RV (14:58):
Alcohol has been involved in almost every single occurrence of my life’s most embarrassing moments and deepest regrets. I don’t wanna have to have a drink in order to have fun, relax, or unwind. There are many people who I respect in my life who drink little or not at all alcohol, lengthens the time of my necessary working career to pay off all that it has caused me. And alcohol might cause me to set a bad example to the people around me that I care about. Here’s what I want you to know. Today is the hardest it will ever be. Today is the hardest it will ever be. It is the hardest right now. The more that you play those affirmations back, you listen to ’em, you recite them, you repeat them, the more your programming will change. And it may be hard to imagine now, but I’m telling you, it is possible that you will wake up one day.
RV (16:03):
And what once was something that all you wanted, all you could think about later in the future, is something you don’t even notice. You don’t want it, you’re not attracted to it. The key is to rewrite that underlying programming. Not to try to lie to yourself and say, oh, I, I, you know, not to deny yourself something that really deep down you’re saying you want and just temporarily disallowing it from yourself, but getting under the root and, and, and rewriting a program that says there’s a different program here and I’m gonna rewrite it because I want to be a different person. Not for anybody else, not for any other reason necessarily, but you’re making the decision that you wanna do it because something that’s important to you. Now, there might be someone else in your life that matters, but it’s, it’s not that that person’s telling you to do it, it’s that you are choosing to do it because that person matters to you.
RV (16:57):
But this is the hardest that it’ll ever be. And I, I I promise you that if you do these things and you think this way and you work in this direction, it will get easier and easier. So I’m not sure who this was for, but I felt called to put it out there. So whether this is for you or a loved one, someone, please feel free to share it and please don’t feel judged. This isn’t about judgment. This isn’t about right and wrong and good and bad. This is just about my journey. Overcoming something that I decided wasn’t the right healthy thing for me and how I did that in case you or someone you know, wants to make that same decision. Thanks for tuning it in.
Ep 346: How I Stopped Drinking with Rory Vaden Part 1
RV (00:08):
All right, podcast friend. We have a special interruption, I guess a deviation from the norm, an extreme circumstance and an unusual broadcast situation here. I recently recorded a video on how I stopped drinking. And it was three strategies for how I stopped drinking. And I don’t know why exactly, I don’t know who this is for, but I have felt called to share my personal story about how I stopped drinking six years ago and specific, you know, specifically how, like what I did, why I made that change, but also how I, I was able to do that, which was important for me. So this has nothing to do with personal branding, really. This has nothing to do. This is not at all the normal format of our podcast. For me to share something like this is very, very un unusual.
RV (01:10):
This is a tremendously personal I guess you would say vulnerable unexpected thing for me to be sharing. But I follow the promptings that I feel led to, and for some reason I feel led to this one. So, if you’re, this is the first time you’ve ever listened to this show you’re welcome to listen to this, to this, to this episode. And we may break it into a couple parts cuz it was a little, a little bit long. But, you know, this is not what we normally cover here on this show. Normally we’re, we’re, we’re talking to people about how to, you know, expand their reach, become more well known, make a bigger impact, make, make more income, and grow their influence in the world. And, and I guess, you know, there is a little bit of a tie, which is if, if you know, one of the things that I believe deeply is that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character.
RV (02:05):
Before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And this story that I’m gonna share about how I stopped drinking six years ago and why, and how it all went and how it all happened, and then specifically the, the strategies that I, I used through that own sort of personal development are are related to my character. Okay? I’m not saying that you, if you, you don’t like, if you drink, you have your person of weak character at all. Not whatsoever at all. Aj, my wife, my bus, our business partner, my business partner, our ceo, you know, she, she, she drinks to this day. But it is, for me, this was an important journey about that I felt I needed to go on to, to strengthen and fortify my personal character. And so that’s why we decided to share it with you is, is not so much about going, Hey, we think you need to, to learn how to stop drinking.
RV (02:59):
You may not drink at all. Or maybe you do and it’s, you know, not a big deal or like, you know, maybe you do a lot and it, it’s not affecting like, you know, whatever, like, whatever your attitude is. It’s, this is not about saying, Hey, you should stop doing this. This is my story about how I created a, a, a significant behavior change in my life and, and, and created new habits and, and new behaviors that is tied, at least was for me, tied to my personal character and is also tied to taking action and creating change and, and making, at least in my case, you know, what I felt was the move to make myself a stronger person. And so, you know, maybe this is relevant to you, like hyper relevant. Maybe it’s relevant for someone, you know, but I think what makes it relevant to all of us, and and, and to you at, at least on some level is, is twofold.
RV (03:48):
One, it is realizing this connection that before you can build a strong personal brand, you have to build a strong personal character. And that’s really, really important because your, your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. Your influence will never grow wider than your character runs deep. That’s something that my pastor shared with me a couple years ago, and I found that to be really true. But for all of us, we’re always trying to make changes. We’re trying to create some behavior change, some pattern change to get ourselves or our business to the next level. And so I think listening to the psychology of what, how I’m creating that change and I’m, I’m leaning on the psychology that you know, I’ve spent a lot of my life developing, which is the psychology of helping people take action and, and build discipline and do things they don’t wanna do.
RV (04:38):
And, and that’s something I’ve, you know, spent a career studying. So, you know, listen to it more from that angle. Like, if, if you’re not someone who struggles with alcohol in whatever way, I’d listen to it, listen to it from that angle, or just, you might just skip past this episode. If you don’t want to get all, all up close and, and personal with me. So again, I, this is a, this is a break from the norm. Just wanted to give you a heads up and a warning. Just fair warning that this is not our standard programming and it’s not a permanent change in our programming. Like we’re, we, we’re, we’re continuing on with our normal format, but not that I wanted to share with you and at least give you a little bit of a look into this part of my life, which was a, which was a powerful and, and important journey. So anyways, I hope you, I hope you enjoy.
RV (05:23):
So about six years ago I stopped drinking alcohol, and I’m gonna tell you a little bit about why I did that, but specifically I wanna share with you three strategies for how I did that. Now, I wanna let you know up front, I’m not against drinking. I don’t believe that it means you’re bad or immoral or any of those things. If you do it, I did it for a long time. I honestly don’t know why I’m sharing this with you, but I feel called to share some of this story with you. You and so I just, I wanna make sure you know up front that I if you drink, this isn’t a slam against you or meant, you know, or anybody aj. Aj my wife drinks and she still drinks. And you know, I have friends, friends that do, so it’s not about that.
RV (06:15):
But I just wanna share three reasons, or not three reasons. I gonna three, three strategies for how I stopped drinking about six years ago. So let’s dive in. Here they are, I’m gonna give ’em to you right up front. So first of all, the, the, the very first strategy is to redefine your identity. Redefine your identity, which is all about figuring out why. And so I’m gonna talk through seven reasons why I stopped drinking and how that sort of came about. Then the second strategy is to rewrite your own programming. And we’ll get into the details of that. I’m gonna share with you an affirmations list that I use, which is really a huge part of what changed my life. And then the third thing is to replace your choices. And there’s two specific types of choices that I replaced in my life that made have made a huge difference.
RV (07:12):
And I’ll share with you what both of those are. So first of all, let’s talk about replacing your identity. And to me, this is really key because if you wanna make any change in your life, you have to start thinking of yourself as a different person, because that’s literally what change means. Change means I’m becoming a different person. I’m, I’m on my way to being someone that is different than I am, or especially than I have been. And in order to do that, it’s going to be, it’s gonna require work, it’s gonna require effort, it’s gonna require intention and discipline, which means it’s gonna be difficult and probably, or at least uncomfortable or, you know, unfamiliar at the least. And so you really need to know why you’re doing what you wanna be doing. Like, I, I think, I think here’s a, here’s what I think is not a great reason to stop being drinking to stop drinking is cuz it’s like, oh, other people think I should stop drinking.
RV (08:15):
I, I actually don’t think that’s a great, the greatest reason why you should. I, I think any change that you make in your life has to be one and should be one that you are making, that you are choosing it. And so you are the one taking agency of your own life. And it’s not cuz you think you’re supposed to or cuz someone said that, you know, somebody threatened you with something, this or that. It’s because whatever has happened, you’ve come to a place where you’ve said, I wanna make this type of change in my life. I wanna make some type of change. And so really this applies to all types of changes. And so I think in order to do that work, in order to take the stairs to, to steal the, the title and metaphor of my first book you, it’s gonna be a journey.
RV (09:01):
And so you need to really understand why you’re doing it. And so I’m gonna share with you these are seven reasons why I decided to stop drinking. So and this happened about six years ago. The last time I had alcohol was the night that AJ told me we were pregnant with my son Jasper, with our oldest son Jasper. So at the time of this recording, that was, you know, six over six years ago, which is crazy that it’s been that long. And, and you also should know that like I drank a lot before that. Was I an alcoholic? I don’t know, I guess depends on what the definition of an alcoholic was. I never went in treatment. I didn’t miss work. You know, maybe if I was, I was, I guess what someone maybe call a high functioning alcoholic, but I once heard the definition that an alcoholic is someone who simply drinks to get drunk.
RV (09:56):
They drink for the purpose of getting drunk. By that definition, I was an alcoholic because that was the only reason I was drinking was to get drunk. It wasn’t like, oh, I like the taste of this more than any number of other things I could drink and that’s why I’m doing it. Or like, I, I’m not, I was never interested in like the making of alcohol or, you know, how it happened or like the hobby of, of of, of how it was crafted, right? Like it was, no, I’m drinking for the purpose of feeling a certain way or escaping a feeling that I was feeling. So, you know, I guess by that definition maybe I was, but I personally, you know, was never, I guess had a place where you might say I was outta control where it was affecting my, you know, my, I don’t know, I don’t know what the measure of that that would be.
RV (10:46):
So, but by some definitions I was. But you know, obviously if, if this is something you’re struggling with or a loved one is struggling with, you should consult with, you know, a mental health professional. And I never was really at that point. So again, I just share in my story here. I’m not sure who needs to hear this, but so here’s seven reasons why I stopped. Okay? So first of all, regret reduction. Regret reduction. You know, as I, as I thought about this whole journey and, and you know, I should say that the catalyst for this was solidarity with aj, right? The ca the catalyst for me stopping wasn’t, it was these seven reasons, but it wasn’t like something massive happened in my, well, I guess finding out you’re gonna be a dad is pretty massive, but like, I didn’t have this, you know, blow up or, you know, hit rock bottom kind of moment.
RV (11:35):
It was just like, you know, she said I was gonna be a dad and she wasn’t gonna drink for nine months. And so I said, all right, I’m just gonna stop drinking with, with you. And then I just never picked it back up. And at first it was really hard, like the first couple weeks were really hard and the first couple months were hard and then it got easier. And that’s something I think you should know, or if, if somebody, you know is, is struggling with an addiction of some type I’m certainly not an expert on addiction, but I have spent a life studying the psychology of, of self-discipline and overcoming procrastination and moving people to action and overcoming inaction. And so what I know from that work as well as my own life is it’s the har today is the hardest it’s ever gonna be.
RV (12:26):
Like, the day that you set out on the change is it’s that that’s the hardest, but it becomes easier o o over over time. So you should know that. But for me, when I was looking back, a hundred percent of the regrets that I had ever had in my life were from when I was drunk. Like, I actually realized that, that as I thought back over the course of my life and I was thinking about, you know, all the, all the, the poor decisions that I had made, all the stupid things that I have said, most of the really dumb things that I had had done, probably all of the dumbest things that I had done. Like, I literally as I, I didn’t have a ton of regrets in my life, but I, I had some big ones. And in all of them, every single regret I had in my life was from, from when I was drunk.
RV (13:21):
And so I thought, well, gosh, if I don’t want regrets, maybe if I could stop doing this, you know, if I stop drinking, maybe I’ll have fewer regrets in my life. And, and it’s just a, it’s just a, a reduction of the chance, right? So it’s like the chance of me ever getting a DUI goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking the, the chance of me ever engaging in sexual immorality or, you know, breaking trust with my wife or having an affair or something, it goes way, way down. If I’m not drinking or I’m not drunk it, it’s not impossible, right? But the likelihood I’m, I’m playing the odds, and this is how I structure my whole life. This is how I structure business is, is, you know, the strategies, the techniques we teach to help people make money, it’s all about, like, nothing is guaranteed, but there’s these principles of success and these principles that are true. And you go, man, if you adopt these into your life, you’re just sort of like playing the odds. And so I thought, man, I’m certainly going to improve the odds in my favor of of, of not having, of having through regrets in my life if I stop drinking. The second thing honestly was mental health. And, and here’s what I mean specifically.
RV (14:33):
I’ll never forget one time I actually said these words out loud. Like, I, these, these words came outta my mouth and there was something about the way I said it that really locked me up and it captured me and it, and it caught my, it like caught my attention. It was like a slap across the face. Like I, it made me go, whoa. And here’s what, here’s what I said to someone. I don’t even remember the scenario. All I remember is what I said. I said, you know, I just have more fun when I’m drunk.
RV (15:10):
And bam, just like that, like when there was just something where I said, when I said, I just have more fun when I’m drunk. That hit me so hard because I realized, wow, the, the however I have structured my life, like whatever choices I’ve made, whoever I’m around, whatever I’m doing, whatever, you know, goals, I’m pursuing business, I’m involved with, like whatever my physical health is, wherever I am at the, like, I have the most fun when I’m drunk. That felt like a risky orientation of my life. It felt like a risky orientation of my happiness. It felt like a risky orientation of, of my mental health to go, I have to be drunk in order to be experiencing my highest level of happiness. And it was a very sobering moment because I realized that’s not how I wanna live. I wanna be able to be happy without this.
RV (16:16):
I wanna be able to be happy every moment of every day with, with without any substances like that. I want my own attitude and my own mindset to be in charge of my own health and happiness. I don’t want dependency on something else for my, for, for my happiness other than, you know, I’m a I’m a I’m a Christian, so, you know, my relationship with God is super important, but like outside of that, my own happiness, I want to be independent of things that are happening around me. I don’t want my circumstances to dictate my happiness. I certainly don’t want substances to dictate my happiness and what I realized for myself, right? I can’t say this for everybody. All I’m all I’m talking about today. I said just Sharon with you, my own journey here, which was sort of an accidental journey a little bit like, you know, just an unexpected journey is, is is that I realized that I diluted my bodys own ability to deal with stress and pain and heartbreak and struggle because I was medicating with alcohol.
RV (17:26):
So I, you know, there are ways that you process stress and grief and, and heartbreak and setbacks and rejection and life. Like, life is difficult. Like for everybody. Life is so, life is hard, man, like, so difficult. And, and what I realized was, oh, somehow along the way, and just you, I, it wasn’t like I was crazy into, into doing bad stuff all the time. I just started drinking, you know, a little bit in high school and then more in college, and then a lot more later in college. And then, you know, I had some money and it was more, and then I was a young professional. I was traveling all over, I was flying first class and, you know, I was speaking and stuff and, and it was just like, it was just always available. And so it was just happening a lot. But I, at some point I had developed accidentally a dependency on this substance to help me resolve stress, to help me deal with rejection, to help me deal with frustration.
RV (18:34):
And so this substance was the thing that I was using for that. And so I was disallowing my body’s natural ability and from forcing itself to deal with those things in a healthy way. And so I was doing this unhealthy thing. And so I was like, man, I want non dependency. I want to be in charge of my own happiness. I want my attitude to dictate how I feel. I, I wanna be in charge. I don’t wanna be dependent on something else, regardless of whether what the something is. I don’t want something else to be responsible for my happiness. I want to be responsible for my happiness. So that was the second reason was mental health. The third reason was actually very practical. It was financial savings,
RV (19:33):
And so they were tracking stuff and they had this line that was like, alcohol and it was thousands of dollars. And if you would’ve told me at the start of the year, oh, you know, Rory is someone who spends thousands of dollars on alcohol, I’d been like, no way. You’re crazy. Like, I have drinks here and there. And then looking at it added up and black and white, it was like, holy moly, I spend thousands of dollars on this. Thousands of dollars, right? Cuz you know, a drink might be, I don’t know, eight bucks, 10 bucks, 12 bucks. If you’re in Vegas, it’s 25 bucks. Like, and you go, ah, you know, a bottle of wine here and there is 20 bucks, 30 bucks. Like you know, you have martinis, you go out on the lake, you do the birthday parties and, and, and, you know, well, couple glasses of wine with dinner.
RV (20:21):
And again, I’m not judging anybody, I’m just sharing my story of going, for me, it added up. And specifically, it wasn’t just thousands of dollars, it was the opportunity cost of going, what if I would’ve spent those thousands of dollars instead of spending on alcohol? What if I would’ve invested that into my own education, into my own personal development? Like, if I would’ve used that money to go to conferences or travel the world or, or even waste and like blow on silly, you know, stuff like I, you know, whatever shirts and, and and, and, and clothes and like, you know, trips or, or TVs or whatever. Like, and then specifically was like, what if I would’ve invested that money? You know? Like if I would’ve taken a few thousand bucks every year from the time, let’s say from the time I was like 20 to 25, if I would take, say it was 2000 bucks every year from age 20 to 25 and invested that, and I would’ve had like that 10 grand invested, it would grow to be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time I was retirement age, like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
RV (21:22):
So I was just, that was one for me where I was like, okay, yeah. Like this is crazy. It’s crazy. It’s costing me, it’s costing me money. The fourth thing was competitive advantage. And I gotta give a shout out here to my man Lewis house because Lewis was one of the people, there were several people in my life that I met who were really high performing individuals. And as I got to know them, I was like, oh, this person doesn’t drink. And I was almost surprised. I was like, wow, I didn’t even know you could, like, it was almost like being successful in business meant you had to like drink at the golf course or drink at the happy hour or, or you know, drink at the award ceremony or drink on the airplane together or like go out for drinks and, and you know, everyone get together and you buy, buy drinks.
RV (22:09):
If you no, if you do so about stuff, it’s fine. But it was just like, it was crazy that somehow my default had become that that was mandatory. Like that it was just that you had to do it. And then I met some of these other people, one, one of ’em being Lewis, who was just this amazing guy who was co accomplishing big things in the world and he wanted to help people. He had these huge visions. What’s funny now, like all of ’em are coming true, but like back in the day it was like, you know, it was as many people who knew him and knew me and we were kind of up and coming and it was like, wow, this guy’s really cool, and, and he doesn’t drink. And so I asked him about it one time and he was just like, you know, look, you know, the way he described it to me was he was like, he was an athlete and he was like, I’m looking for every competitive advantage that I can get.
RV (22:56):
And so that was the fourth reason for me was like, competitive advantage of just going, okay, like separate morality, separate physicality. If you just look at it peer like ambition and success of like, who, what am I gonna, who am I, what am I gonna achieve someday? And, and what can I be capable of someday? And you go, okay, these are the goals I have in my life. And again, you go, does alcohol increase my odds of achieving these goals or decrease my odds? For me, it was like decreases the odds. And it was like, yeah, if all things being equal, okay, and I don’t, I’m not super competitive with other people. I’m pretty competitive with myself, but I’m not super competitive with other people. But if you just thought about, and you said, okay, if there’s three people in the race, all things being equal, and you go, if I’m a non dreger, does that give me a competitive advantage for me?
RV (23:50):
I was like, yeah, it probably does. Like it probably does. So, so why not? So that, that was a, that was a epiphany, which is kind of close to the fifth one. So the fifth one was physical vigilance. Physical vigilance. This was the fifth reason why, you know, thinking back, I stopped, I stopped drinking and I met a, a friend, or we had a friend named Navy Seal Joe and Navy Seal Joe was a Navy Seal for 24 years and he did 13 combat tours. You know, he’s running life and death missions. And he said to me, and he, he didn’t drink, and he and I, I asked him about it one time and he said, he said, it’s real simple, Rory, when you’re in Navy Seal you realize, you know your life At any moment you could be in a life or death situation like snap of a fingers, your Navy seal it.
RV (24:43):
There’s, you know, like the Marine, the Marines, the marines say no easy day, right? There’s no easy day. Like at any moment you can find yourself suddenly in a life or death situation. And he said, and I had to realize that like even once he was out of the military, the same was true, right? You can be walking down the street and in a split second, somebody walks up behind you, you’re in a life and death situation. You can be driving a car and something jumps out in front of the road and you split second, you’re in a life and death situation. You know, someone says something to you and you reacted the the wrong way to, it could be a loved one, could be a stranger. You suddenly might be finding yourself in a situation that could alter the trajectory of your life. And so he was saying that there were these moments that we never know when they’re gonna come up, but they could happen at any moment, right?
RV (25:31):
You could be, you know, tornado hurt, like, you know, hurricane, it could be volcano, could be a physical encounter, could be your, your house catches on fire and you go, are you prepared? Right? Like, if I’m drunk, does that make me prepared for that moment? For me, it was like, no, that feels not the case. It’s the opposite, right? It’s the opposite. And so I never wanted to be caught in a moment where I was like, whoa, I have handicapped my own ability to, you know, maximize the likelihood of a positive outcome in some type of a life or death situation. So it’s physical vigilance. It’s very similar. One time I remember a man came up to me after speaking he, he had read Take the Stairs and he was like, Roy, I really love the book, et cetera. And he said, you know, I doesn’t look this way, but I, I I lost 120 pounds.
RV (26:29):
And I said, wow, that’s crazy. How did you do this? And he told me, he said, well, you know, it’s amazing. It’s really like, how did I gain it? At first he was like, all I did was I got married 10 years ago and I gained a pound a month. Okay? So that’s 12 pounds a year. And I did that every year for 10 years. That’s 120 pounds. Like all I did was gain a pound a month. I did that consistently for 10 years. I’m 120 pounds overweight. And I said, well, so what happened? And he and I said, you know, what’s the diet like? What was the diet program? What was your exercise regimen like? What, what’d you, what’d you do? He said, it wasn’t any of that. He said, I had a friend whose house caught on fire and this guy’s house was burning down in the middle of the night and he had a wife and he had two kids and he had to make a decision in the middle of the night in that environment, which of his family members he was gonna carry out to safety.
RV (27:29):
And he told me, he said, in that moment, I made a de a decision that I would rather die than have to make that choice. And so I had to be in a position physically where I was strong enough to carry out all of my family. If that situation happened, I would have to be able to go room to room and pick them all up and, and, and make it out of the house. And so he said, that was the thought that moved me. It was this, the same idea of physical vigilance like that, that, that I’m ready at any moment before, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m most ready or I’m best optimized for any moment. The six is spiritual guidance. I don’t wanna spend too much time on this one cuz I don’t, I don’t want you to think that like, you know, you’re, you’re in spirit, you’re unspiritual if if you drink, you know, you’re not, I mean, Jesus, you know, his first miracle
RV (28:26):
But there, you know, when I, I look through you know, I, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m a man of God. I read the word and that’s, that’s my source of truth. And I was looking in first Peter five eight, and it says, be alert and of sober mind because the enemy, the, your enemy, the devil pros around like a roaring line looking for someone to devour, resist him, stand firm in your faith. Because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. And it’s like be alert and of sober mind, right? That’s a warning in Romans 12, one it says, therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters in view of God’s mercy, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice. Holy in pleasing to God. This is true and proper worship. And you know, again, it’s like, doesn’t mean you can’t ever drink or even that maybe you shouldn’t get drunk.
RV (29:18):
It just means like, I’m being mindful of the idea that, okay, like if, if my body is supposed to be, my life is, you know, a dedication to the Lord, you know, there’s some spiritual, there’s spiritual impacts here. This is not a salvation issue, by the way, just to make that super clear. Drinking or not drinking has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. There’s, there’s, that’s a whole different story. You know, speaking, you know, of the Christian faith that has nothing to do with whether or not you get into heaven. The Bible to me is, is not a rule book, it’s an instruction manual. Though for how you live and you know how to get the most out of living and, you know, these are things that I saw in there. So you know, that mattered to me.
RV (29:57):
And then the seven thing was just setting an example, setting an example an an an example setting for my boys, you know, and just going, you know, my dad was an alcoholic, his dad was an alcoholic. Like it ran in our family. And again, like a couple drinks here and there, whatever, I mean, this is all for you, for you to sort out. Like but for me it was again saying like, who do I want my boys to see? Me being? Who do I want them to see me being? What do I want them to see me doing, knowing not so much that I’m concerned with what they think about me, all that’s, although that’s important, but what concerned me more is knowing that whatever it is that I do is likely to give them permission for them to do in their own life.
RV (30:56):
And even if I am spared from ever becoming an alcoholic or become, you know, getting to the place where it, it really is, is is ruling my life, they might not be so lucky and I don’t wanna be a part of any part of contributing to that right now. My boys are gonna drink one day. I mean, maybe I’ll have a drink with them one day. I don’t know. Like but it’s, it’s like, it’s just setting that example and also, you know, helping other people that are cool and, and people realizing that you can actually be cool without doing this. You could be successful without doing this. You can rise in the corporate ranks without doing this because, which is weird to even think we have to say that, but somehow the, the world is at the place where you kind of have to say it cuz it’s more like, we think the opposite of like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s weird to not drink.
RV (31:51):
Like you’re the unusual one if you’re not drinking, not the other way around. Like, it’s more normal, it’s more customary to be drinking and you can apply this to any type of indulgence, right? You know, the same things for like, you know, whatever, any type of abuse, not abuse indulgence abuse of in like a, of a substance, substance abuse is what I’m saying, or indulgence of, of some type. You know, so just, you know, that’s my identity. That’s why is going, who do I wanna be? And that’s what you gotta figure out for yourself is just who do I wanna be? And, and is this helping me or is it out? And if it’s, if it’s fine, like if it’s under control and you go, okay, yeah, it’s fine, it’s under control, fine. You know, it’s, it’s, no one should be judging you except you.
RV (32:36):
Like, it’s, it’s all up to you to decide what feels right. All right. So interruption, pause, stop the recording, stop the tape, stop the video. Stop, stop. Apologize for this interruption, but it sounds like I’ve got more to say on this topic than I anticipated. And I, again, I have no idea why I’m doing this. I just for some reason feel called to share this story with the world. But I, I’ve got more to say, in fact a lot more to say than some really, really practical tips and like actual tactical things that you can do or that I did to help me stop drink to, to help me stop drinking. So I am gonna share those with you, but we decided that, hey, this is a good place to pause and draw part one to a conclusion.
RV (33:30):
And we’ll sort of like wrap part one and then stay tuned and we will, we will bring you part two. I will not leave you hanging, but I just wanted to interrupt myself here for a moment and say there’s more to come. And if you’re, if you’re getting value out of this or if you think it’s useful for someone that, you know, that fills me up. I guess that’s really ultimately the only reason why I’m doing this. But we’re gonna split it into two different sections. So this lands the plane on part one and we’ll make sure obviously that we send out part two very, very, very soon. Make it easy for you to find. Thanks so much.