Ep 610: Building Your Brand (And Your Business) With Your WHO In Mind
Rory & AJ Vaden (00:01)
Hey everybody and welcome to the influential personal brand podcast. Jess Connolly is the amazing guest that you just heard me introduce. And we’re so, so, so excited to have her on the show because I have to tell you my good friend and team member at BBG, Laura Robinson has been literally singing Jess’s praises for months if not.
Years about you have to meet you have to meet you guys have to you have to have her on the show And so today is the day where after months of planning and scheduling we have finally made it happen Just we are so excited to have you on the show. So welcome
Jess (00:37)
I’m so honored to be here and yeah, just a big fan of Laura and I know she is just An incredible asset to your team and she’s also just an incredible asset to the world I love knowing her and love love getting to watch what you guys do
Rory & AJ Vaden (00:52)
Yes, well, she is amazing. But that’s the best part about knowing amazing people because they know amazing people. then you just meet each other. So okay, so I mentioned in your intro that you’ve written several books. You’re a pastor, you’re a mom, a wife, and we have four little ones, right, four kids.
Jess (00:58)
Amen.
Yeah, they’re not so little. My kids are pretty older. Or guess older, but I four children. Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (01:16)
But if you just think about that for everyone who’s listening, like, four kids is a lot, right? One kid is a lot. Writing one book is a lot, much less. Is this your fourth book coming out soon?
Jess (01:21)
Yes. Yes.
No, my book coming out in September is my 12th traditionally published book.
Rory & AJ Vaden (01:31)
12 foot, my gosh, I only have, see, I only have three of your books. I actually have, this
was one of my summer reads, Tired of Being Tired. So I have a lot of work to do to catch up on all of your work. I only have three of them, but I too am a huge fan of your work. And one of the things that I would just love to do is help our audience get to know a little bit of your journey of where did you start? Like take us all the way back into when you started your professional endeavors and
Jess (01:39)
⁓
That’s alright.
Rory & AJ Vaden (02:01)
And ultimately, okay, I was like thinking four books. You have 12 books. Like there’s a lot of effort, a lot of work, a lot of brain power that goes into writing any book, much less that many. But in addition to that, you’re running a household, a family, helping run a church. You’re speaking. Like you’re doing so many things. So how did that all come about?
Jess (02:22)
Yeah, well, it was fairly organic for me. I’ll start in childhood, but I promise I won’t go every year of my life. But ⁓ one of my earliest memories is I knew that I loved to write and I knew that I could compel people with my words pretty well. So I always felt when I would get in trouble as a kid, the first thing I would do would be to write my parents a letter.
because I knew if I could, I could just arrange words in a way that would compel them to not be so angry at me. And so I kind of tucked that into my heart. And then in my late teens and my early twenties, ⁓ I had this like kind of interesting season in my life where I was getting asked to speak, getting asked to preach at different places, and even actually getting published in different publications. And now my family, my husband and I will always laugh about it. like, that is such a weird thing.
for an 18 year old to be getting asked to write articles in different Christian magazines, et cetera. And so I would say like, okay, there was this flurry of activity from like 18 to 22, or I was getting asked to teach or preach places or getting asked to write different articles or different things. And so you would think like, okay, it just went up, up, up from there. But actually for me, from about 22 to about 28 then, I went full blown into motherhood.
I wasn’t in the workforce in any capacity. I was a stay at home mom. My kids right now are 18, 17, 16, and 12, almost 13. But if you heard that 18, 17, 16, then you know they’re very close together in range. We call them Irish triplets. But so they were one, two, and three, two, three, and four, and three, four, and five, and four, five, six. So those were some really intense parenting, mothering years. My husband was pastoring.
We were leading in different local churches, but I wasn’t really working in any capacity. And I, in that time, really didn’t have the margin to. I didn’t even really have the aspiration to. kind of didn’t ever really think I’d work again. I was in the thick of it so much with motherhood that I just thought, well, this is what I’ll do. But in the midst of that, that was kind of the height of mommy blogging. And I was a fastidious mommy blogger because I had all these words to share.
ideas, add all these thoughts. So I’ve blogged every day. I was one of those bloggers who had sometimes blogged multiple times a day. And so I kind of amassed a following through mommy blogging. Sometimes I’d write about the Bible. Sometimes I’d write about my hair. Sometimes I’d write about the kids. Sometimes I would just write little essays. And that kind of catapulted into publishers coming to me and saying, like, hey, have you ever thought about book writing? And I was like, well, I used to a long time ago.
⁓ And I wrote one book and I realized not only do I like writing, actually love marketing books. I actually love the process of marketing. Around that time also I had ⁓ what had started as like a fun little small business. ⁓ I was creating scripture prints on my husband’s laptop and printing them at my house. These little pieces of art and just printing them on paper and mailing them out to friends and started as like a fun hobby on Etsy.
And by the time, I think I started in March of 2011. And by December 2011, we had done more in revenue than my husband’s salary. So we were like, okay, well, this is actually maybe something. This is maybe a small business. So we continued growing that small business and I began the publishing journey and I started hosting events and then I started getting us to speak other places.
⁓ And then that’s kind of how coaching rose up out of all of that because I realized if I could do this ⁓ You know, I’m a gal who barely passed high school. I got my first F in English in fifth grade So, I mean I was not on this kind of like upward trajectory. I didn’t go to business school I I had to Google like most basic business phrases and I realized like if I could kind of Find some success and some fruit in the small business world
instinctively with what I know. If I could figure out how to publish books and actually get them in the hands of people, if I could lead an organization, if I could lead a team and I haven’t had any training, maybe I could also come alongside people and help them step into their gifting and their calling. so coaching rose up out of all that. We eventually closed our small business. And now I spend my days really doing a conglomeration of all those things.
I’m almost always working on some book in some form. I have a book come out almost every year and have for the last couple decades, sometimes having two books come out in a year. And we’re leading our church that my husband and I planted almost 13 years ago here in Charleston. And I lead a small business here now called Go Intel Gals where we coach women in all of these different formats.
So it actually happened pretty organically and that’s all to say that Origins 4 really was mommy-bogging.
Rory & AJ Vaden (07:48)
There’s two things that you said that stick out to me that I think is really important for everyone who’s listening, ⁓ even though everyone who’s listening, your journey is going to be unique to what we’re talking about today. But I think there’s two themes that you said are really important. It’s one, I blogged every day.
Like there was a consistency. is a, like when you say you blogged every day for how long?
Jess (08:10)
Yes.
it’s funny. I was just talking to my kids about it this weekend because they were like tell us that tell us about the blogging I bought with that like I would say ⁓ I blogged every day for 10 years and This was not the kind of this was like before people realized you could make money blogging So I just did it for free. I was just showing up to serve and talk to my audience
Rory & AJ Vaden (08:37)
huh. think that’s, it’s a timeless message that we cannot hear enough, that consistency matters and that you did it out of service and that you did it in 10 years before you were even making money at it. Like this was just something that I was like, I feel called to do this. I enjoy doing this and I’m going to do it every single day. And I think that’s true for all of us. It’s like, if we just stay consistent at something,
Jess (08:38)
So yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (09:04)
It’s like there’s a little bit of truth to just outlasting everyone else. There’s a little bit of truth of just showing up, being of service to people, regardless of what everyone else is doing. It’s amazing what happens when you actually just do that. But you’re talking about for 10 years, you blogged every day.
Jess (09:10)
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s funny. It’s interesting. Even now when I’ll have a book launch, you know, I think I don’t know how many Instagram followers I have. Maybe ⁓ I really genuinely don’t know 130,000, something like that. I’ve got, you know, ⁓ a large email list and I’m now like blog on Substack and I’m, know, on different
platforms, but what’s interesting is I would say there’s about 10,000 people, 10,000 women that I feel like have pretty much been with me since almost 2007. You know, that I’ve been like spending time with in some capacity and as an author, I would just encourage, you know, a lot of times when we’re looking at publishing books or
I’m getting in free orders like 10,000 book sales is like a really strong pre-order number that’s gonna serve an author, you know, for the long haul. And I would say because I’ve invested in that 10,000 group of women for now genuinely almost 20 years just showing up, you know, hopping on the phone with them, taking calls, you know, of those 10,000 women, I’ve got women who will like stop in a Charleston to see me on vacation or like
You know, there’s probably, I would say at least 500 of them that if I saw their face in a crowd, I would know them. I know their name because we’ve been interacting on the internet for that long. And so to some degree, almost anything I put out, that core group of women is going to be with me. But it has been almost 20 years of investment.
Rory & AJ Vaden (11:08)
And I think that out of like almost out of everything you said, which there was a lot, I have like 10 questions from just what you shared with, you know, how you started to where you are. But that’s probably the most important thing is just realizing like relationships take investment. regardless of what we hear today, relationships are still how businesses grow. It’s still how content is received. It’s still how book launch happen, regardless of what we think.
Jess (11:27)
Yes.
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (11:33)
having real life connection and real life relationships because you’ve been at it for a long time serving people, getting to know them, connecting with them. It’s not all about paid ads and trying to convert strangers on the internet. It’s about how can I reach someone and serve them, know them and do it consistently over the course of time. Those are just things we cannot hear enough because there’s so much noise out there talking about
Jess (11:51)
Yeah.
Okay.
Rory & AJ Vaden (12:02)
you know, this funnel and this challenge and this and it’s like, you know, have a six figure launch with a bunch of strangers on the internet. And it’s like, does that really work consistently? Right. there’s, there’s a lot of what you said that I think is really impactful of y’all. It takes time. And that’s okay because I imagine that 10 years of blogging every single day made you a phenomenal writer.
Jess (12:13)
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it certainly honed my ability to get get 500 to a thousand words out every single day So that’s the other things people will say like how have you written that many books? I’m like, well, I just write 500 to thousand words every day, which actually is about 40 minutes of writing, you know But you write a thousand words a day for two months and that’s a manuscript about 60,000 words. So Yeah
Rory & AJ Vaden (12:52)
Yeah, I mean the average manager
today is like 52,000 words and that’s like exactly that timeframe. But again, it’s about honing the craft. You gotta do it. You gotta do it again and again and again. So I love that. Okay, the second thing you said that I’d love for you to talk a little bit about is it wasn’t just that I loved writing. I loved marketing the book. That’s something a lot of authors possess. I think a lot of people go,
Jess (13:02)
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Rory & AJ Vaden (13:20)
All the work is in the writing of the book. And then they’re like, ⁓ I’m done. But really it’s, you know, just part one, it’s done. Now the marketing and the selling is actually how you get people to know about the book. So what have you learned about marketing the book that you did not know when you started? And if somebody was out there going, I want to write a book or I’m about to launch a book, when it comes to actually marketing and selling books, getting it in the hands of people, what would you say has worked?
Jess (13:22)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Rory & AJ Vaden (13:50)
for you that may be here very often.
Jess (13:51)
Whoa.
I love this question. So, okay, here’s the first thing I’ll say and I’ll just encourage anyone who is excited about writing a book or maybe even like running their own business or, you know, loves running their own brand and doesn’t enjoy marketing ⁓ or doesn’t enjoy promoting themselves or showing up on social media. ⁓ I think the biggest thing that has served me is that I see marketing as a way to serve.
And I will also say, also see using social media as a privilege. Women who were doing what I am doing 20, 30, 40 years ago, first of all, they weren’t getting book deals. Second of all, if they were, they were having to do so much more legwork. I think all the time about Lisa Turkhurst. She’s probably, she’s one of the foremost.
you know, female authors who’s Christian authors who’s still publishing today. She puts out a book every year, every other year. ⁓ And I have heard just incredible stories about Lisa 20, 25 years ago. She was doing things like mailing newsletters to everyone in her city, like, hey, I’d love to come speak at your church. I’d love to come to your event. The fact that we just get to show up, pick up our phones, turn them on and serve people.
immediately that we should see that as such a privilege. We should be so honored that we get to use social media. And so I would say that as number one. Number two, the same thing about marketing is that I like you. I hear from so many authors who are like, oh, this is not my favorite part. I don’t love this part. I just like the writing. And so I would say if you are going to spend the time of your life to write 50 to 60,000 words, you should hope and pray.
that they are going to have a life changing positive effect on someone’s life. And if you believe that, if you say like, wanted to write this book because I actually want to create and cultivate a positive life giving change in the reader’s life, then wouldn’t you want to get that in as many hands as possible? Wouldn’t you want to serve as many people as possible? So I would say that’s number two.
And then number three, then kind of like the backend thing I hear is like, yes, but I hate promoting myself. And I would say, if I’m honest, I don’t feel like I have promoted myself one single day of marketing. I don’t want to promote myself. I’m not the product. What I do want to do is communicate with people about what I believe will serve them and help them live more fully awake.
And so talk about the problem, talk about the promise, talk about how this book or this product or this idea is actually going to create lasting change in their life. And then you’re never promoting you. You’re actually talking about them. You’re actually talking about this problem or this issue in their lives. So those things have typically helped me a ton, just kind of conceptually with book marketing. But the biggest thing I would say is that
I spend a significant amount of time before I ever start writing my book, thinking about my reader, thinking about their pain points, describing their pain points in different ways. I spend a lot of time listening to my reader, asking her, what is hard for you about this? What does this look like in your life? How does it manifest in the way that it shows up the problem? ⁓ And so really when I’m marketing my book, all I’m doing and mirroring back what I’ve heard her say.
that this is what is difficult for her. This is what is hard for her. This is where she feels stuck. This is where she doesn’t know what to do. This is where she feels in the dark. And then when I’m talking about the book, I’m only talking about it as a pathway really to serve her to get out of that, to make some steps forward. So yeah, that’s, I would say the number one thing that has helped me love marketing is thinking about my who, getting obsessed with her and listening to her.
spending a lot of time not just guessing about what’s hard for her or what’s difficult for her, but listening to her and then trying to serve her not only in the writing of the book, but in the marketing of the book.
Rory & AJ Vaden (18:15)
Okay, I love that. And that’s so in alignment. We believe the exact same thing. And we talk about, you your ideal avatar, your who. It’s a huge part of our recent book that came out. And so I know a lot of people who are listening to our show know our version of like what we talk about when it’s creating your who and your avatar. But I’d love for you to share, like, how did you find your who? Because I think some people check off that exercise.
Jess (18:32)
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (18:44)
as a quick checkbox. They’re like, yeah, that right. I know the demographics. I did the psychographics. I’ve done that exercise before. And there’s that. And then there’s so much more. So when you say her, right, I know her and I’m focused on what problems she has. Like that tells me like you have an intimate relationship with this person that you know you can help that you can serve. And I think a lot of us who are struggling with
Jess (18:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Rory & AJ Vaden (19:10)
our business or our messaging or what problem. all because we don’t have a deep understanding of our who. So in your words, what is a who and how did you find yours?
Jess (19:22)
Yeah. Okay. Well, I’ll speak specifically to book writing ⁓ as an illustration. So before I ever start writing, I’m going to identify, I’m going to do an avatar-esque exploration where I’m going to write about my primary reader, my secondary reader, my tertiary reader. ⁓ And these are going to be women who are in similar demographics, but are going to have slightly different pain points.
⁓ I’ll use my book breaking free from body shame as an example. So when I wrote breaking free from body shame I wrote to kind of three different readers. My primary reader was a woman who you know What felt like felt like every woman, you know, she had been on a diet since she was in her teens She grew up in diet culture ⁓ Maybe she’s serving in the church. Maybe she’s a leader ⁓ maybe she has been to Bible studies or gone to Bible studies and She’s been on a bunch of different diets
but she’s never combined these two ideas. She’s never like trying to figure out where her faith and her concept of her body image come to pass. So she would be my primary reader. I’m gonna mostly talk to her. Well, for me, when I was prepping and kind of doing that avatar experience, my secondary reader would actually be somebody who was really more in a diagnosable place of having an eating disorder. ⁓
Maybe a therapist has said like, Hey, you actually have this condition. She’s, has actual disorder eating behaviors or different behaviors in her past or maybe even in her present. ⁓ that would, that would kind of put her in a slightly different category. And she’s looking for some more in-depth healing. Why that’s important to note is because she’s not necessarily my primary reader, not, not the bulk of my audience is going to have a diagnosis of that sort, but I have to consider her.
constantly in my writing because I want the book to be safe for her. I want it to be palatable for her. I don’t want her to feel triggered in any sort of way. And then for that book, for example, my tertiary reader was someone who is maybe really well versed in body image, body freedom. Maybe she’s been a part of the body positivity moment. I think when I did some writing about this tertiary reader for this book, I would say like she listens to Lizzo. You know, she’s like she’s down with body positivity, but she doesn’t know at all what that would have to do with her face.
She’s never connected to those ideas. And so I’m really considering all three of those women as I write. Now the key is, and I want to like really clearly answer your question, the key is, and what I actually find many authors do wrong, and what I find many entrepreneurs struggle with as well, is that they no longer surround themselves with the people they’re serving.
⁓ And so there are a lot of things that are really complex for me about being a multi-mission to woman It is not easy to to be a local church pastor and someone who travels to teach and write who still coaches women who still might get you know a desperate Instagram DM from someone who’s struggling and I might say like let me help on the phone with you. Can I give you a call today? ⁓
I could easily say like, no, you know what? I’ve gotten to this place in my career where I’m going to set a lot of boundaries. I’m just going to do what I’m great at and I’m going to be excellent. And I’m only going to actually interact with other people who do what I do and who are excellent and who have large platforms and who are phenomenal leaders. That’s what a lot of people do. And that’s actually like the pinnacle for a lot of people. They feel like once I’m friends with people who are very successful, then I will just be kind of sequestered off and I’ll be great and I’ll be famous and it’ll be awesome.
The problem is that you no longer have access to real people. You don’t know who you’re serving and you don’t know what their problem is. So it’s incredible to sit in a room and identify your avatar. Then you have to keep meeting with them. Then you have to keep loving them. You can’t also like put yourself on a pedestal and see like, okay, I’m the one serving them and they’re beneath me. You actually have to love them. You have to do life with them. You have to…
be surrounded by people who are struggling with the problem that your product or your book or your brand is seeking to solve. ⁓ And that’s what I find so many specifically authors stop doing, but also I think entrepreneurs as well.
Rory & AJ Vaden (23:43)
Yeah, like honestly, that’s so, so, so good because even most of us do it unintentionally. know, whenever you were talking, it made me think about just how like corporate, like giant corporations and corporate entities, lose touch with the end user because the business they started where everyone was more entrepreneurial and everyone was engaging. It’s like all of a sudden you’re kind of climbing this corporate ladder and
Jess (23:52)
Totally.
Rory & AJ Vaden (24:10)
You don’t even know these people anymore. You don’t even know what they struggle with. And when people say, well, they’re out of touch with reality. It’s like, it’s this right here. This is what you’re talking about. But I see that even happens on a leadership level when you’re no longer engaging as like an owner with your frontline employees. It’s like, it goes kind of the same way with not just your readers or customers, but also with your team members. so.
Jess (24:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Rory & AJ Vaden (24:37)
What do you do like tactically? Like what do you do to stay in front of and engaged and in relation with your who?
Jess (24:45)
Yeah, think staying accessible and I would say staying humbly accessible feels really important. And so again, kind of across all these platforms, I mean, even similarly in the church world, it can be very typical to go to a church where, ⁓ you know, a pastor is up on a pedestal and like maybe he has his own community and he has his own people, but like you’re not ever gonna get to speak to them.
Something that’s super important to my husband and I is like, we want to be in actual groups at our church that we are not leading for perpetuity because we want to be in community with people. We want to stay in community with people. And we actually believe to some degree, if you don’t step on that pedestal, people won’t treat you weird. There’s a little bit less pressure going on. And so I would say I do the same thing or I try to do the same thing across platforms.
When I go to a speaking engagement, you are not gonna catch me back in the green room 90 % of the time with the other speakers. I wanna be out with the women. I wanna be out with the people. I wanna be hearing what’s going on with them. I wanna be sitting with them. I wanna be praying with them. I wanna be learning from other communicators in the same way that they are because that is how I’m gonna grow. I wanna be sitting with the teams also at the events that I go to and learning from them and growing with them. And then similarly on social media, ⁓
I understand there are a lot of different reasons why people might set boundaries and not read DMs or not respond to them, cetera. And in full transparency, have someone who has to help me with DMs because I want to be loving to people and I don’t want to miss really important things. But we have a healthy system where she can flag certain things or send me a screenshot of something and say, I really feel like you’re going to want to see this or you’re going to want to respond to this or you might even want to this woman a call. I know you don’t know her, but she’s just been really transparent with you.
staying humbly accessible to people and saying like, I’m not aloof, I’m not off in some glass house where you can’t reach me, but I’m gonna be in this with you. I’m gonna be a leader from in the midst has really helped me. And again, just also helped me to stay healthy. I know so many people who do what we do, who host podcasts, who are thought leaders, who just, they feel pressure.
They feel like they’re on a pedestal. They’re constantly worried about getting canceled. They’re constantly worried about making a mess up. And there’s some safety to staying ⁓ normal and not getting on the pedestal for our own souls.
Rory & AJ Vaden (27:21)
That’s so good. I think it’s important. You said it’s okay to have some boundaries and it’s okay to get support and help and be transparent and all of that. But at the same time, be in it. It’s not something you outsource. You can get support, you can have boundaries, but you got to stay in it. I think this is a really important thing because I think you’re right. think a lot of people, as they have a little bit more success, whether they have a big book come out, their business grows,
their speaking career takes off, doesn’t matter whatever it is, right? Whatever it is. You get a promotion in a corporate environment, make a long list of things. But at some point it’s like, you do, kind of like almost remove yourself from the relationship of the people that you actually started the whole thing for. I’m curious to hear from you, like, why does that happen? Like, what have you seen for everyone who’s listening, who’s going,
Jess (27:52)
and
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (28:18)
yeah, that’s me. I’m totally out of touch. if I’m listening going, okay, how do I make sure that doesn’t happen?
Jess (28:21)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think the main reason it happens, again, yeah, just to give a massive dose of grace to people who might say like, oh, I assumed that would happen, or I’m noticing maybe that has happened. I would say the main reason that happens is it’s a cultural phenomenon that we didn’t start. We don’t choose it. We perceive like this is the conveyor belt. This is how it’s supposed to go.
And so I would just say like, yeah, just a massive like shame off you to anyone who’s feeling like, ⁓ I think that’s me. Like you didn’t choose it. That was the path that you probably were presented with. It seemed like the most natural path. It seemed like, this is what’s supposed to happen. ⁓ And I think honestly, like there’s bigger questions there, but ⁓ my personal sociological point of view is that we love fame.
⁓ And we love to separate people and we love to other ourselves and we love to other other people But also I would say my personal belief is that fame is a trauma And it’s one that even as leaders we have to kind of continually absolve ourselves of and we have to Break off what what is it? What is actually you like too much pressure for our souls and our psyches to handle? So I would say that
And I would say some ways to avoid it is cultivate healthy friendships with people who do not do what you do. ⁓ And I would say that’s one thing that has massively served me is that my best friends in life right now, know, some are assistants and some are school administrators and some are nannies ⁓ and some are nurses and some are stay at home moms.
And it’s been very good for me to remember that my calling, my career, my life is actually not more important or more valuable in any way than theirs. And so I want to stay curious about what their lives are like and how I can encourage them and how I can affirm them and how I can support them in the same way that they might do for me because my calling’s a little bit more flashy or a little bit more out there. And so I think that’s one way we can just ⁓ stay.
grounded in a really healthy way is just cultivate friendships with people who don’t do what you do. And again, I would also say this is is anti most of the advice that I got when I really started pastoring and writing books and stepping into leadership. I would actually hear people give the wisdom and insight like you need to get around other high capacity leaders and that’s you need to stay around all the time.
You know, there’s going to be other pastors would tell me there’s going to be a point where you can’t be friends with the people that you pastor. ⁓ So not to get biblical, like Jesus breaks that exact example. Like he stays friends with the people he pastors. You know what I’m saying? Like he doesn’t say like, sorry, I’m only going to hang out with Holy Spirit now. He stays friends with sinners. He stays friends with like sleepy disciples who don’t get what he’s doing. And then I would also say like there, this is why we see
Rory & AJ Vaden (31:20)
to
Jess (31:43)
huge thought leaders and authors fall. It’s why we see them experience, you know, maybe even like a fall off in their career, two books, three books, four books, five books in, or they go on social media and they say something incredibly tone deaf. And it’s because they’ve just surrounded themselves with an echo chamber of people who all sound like them and who kind of forget like how much milk costs and what it’s like to really get childcare when you’re struggling. And, you know, just all of that
stuff. yeah, that would be my encouragement.
Rory & AJ Vaden (32:16)
Yeah, I love that. And it’s such a great parallel to Jesus and, you know, just even thinking about, yeah, like his closest friends are the people he discipled. You know, it’s like those, yeah, because you hear that all the time. It’s like, don’t be friends with your employees. Right. And it’s like, why not? There’s a little bit. Why not? And yeah, does it add complexity? Sure. But I was complex. Welcome. You know, but I love that. And it’s like,
Jess (32:34)
Yeah. Why not?
Yes. Yep. Yep.
Rory & AJ Vaden (32:46)
you know, don’t isolate yourself or elevate yourself out of the real world and real people and reality, because then you’re, you are out of touch and you think you’re untouchable and that’s, that is where sin takes hold. ⁓ and it always happens in isolation. So I love that. It’s like just cultivate healthy friendships. ⁓ one other thing for this, and then I want to move on, but I’m curious because I do hear a lot of people talk about like, okay, if we’re going to be accessible, like how accessible, like how much time am I?
Jess (32:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (33:15)
I was to spend reading emails and checking DMs and like, where does the rest of my life occur? So do you have any best practices around time, duration, engagement of like, what does that look like? Cause it can be a dark black hole.
Jess (33:22)
Yeah.
Yes, yes, a hundred percent. And I’m so glad you asked that because it would, I would hate for anyone to hear my words and think like, well now I just need to be accessible all the time. I need to be DMing all the time. I have actually tried to do that and it has been to the detriment of my work, to the detriment of my calling and for certain to the detriment of my own health and my own mental health.
And so I would say like having a rightly ordered understanding of what is most important in your work, what you spend the time on that’s going to be the most impactful for the most amount of people and ordering your day like that, ordering your week like that in those correct maybe I would say like chunks that correlate to the importance.
We do something on our team every week where everybody, every member of our team draws out a pie chart and then they list their tasks by importance on the pie chart. So for example, when I made my pie chart for the week this week, I’m currently writing my next book. So 25 % of my pie chart went to book writing. And then maybe, you know, like 6 % went to podcasts and like,
8 % went to different content planning and different sorts of things. And so by doing that every single week, I know, okay, what’s the most important work for me to do this week? And then my time needs to go there. So always for me, partially that’s gonna be talking to people, hearing from real women, know, spending time in DMs. But if I spend 25 % of my week doing that, I wouldn’t actually be able to write the book that is gonna impact hundreds of thousands.
⁓ because I’m taking time to DM maybe 13 people. So ⁓ I’m trying to be thoughtful about, what actually fits into the priorities? But I would say a lot of us just don’t know. We don’t know like, is the most important work that I do? What’s the work that only I can do? ⁓ And how can I honor that? And so I would say evaluating that and then reevaluating it every single week can be really helpful.
Rory & AJ Vaden (35:42)
I think that’s wise, sage advice, which is there is no universal best practice. We’re all different. Our priorities are different. Our seasons are different. What’s happening in our lives are different. What your audience needs is different, ⁓ which means we all have to do that work.
Jess (35:47)
No. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah,
yeah. And in our businesses, and I would say like using book writing as an example, in our businesses, it’s exactly what you said, the seasons are going to be different. So for example, right now I’m in a really strange layered season and that is not my favorite where I’m preparing to publish one book and I’m finishing the manuscript of another. But my goal is to get the manuscript of my next book finished before the pub date of
the book that’s coming out. I have a book coming out at the end of September. So my goal is to get this next manuscript done before that pub date. Because once a book is out in the world, I kind of see the next six weeks is for the reader. It’s me talking to her. So I’m definitely going to spend a lot more time in that six weeks post book launch reading DMs and contacting women and talking to women who have gotten the book and who are in it because that’s about her. But right now,
I’m serving her by kind of going into a hole and writing the next book.
Rory & AJ Vaden (37:02)
Yeah, that’s so good. And I think that’s just really important because I think a lot of people are trying to put in static standard rules of how we divvy up our time and that that this doesn’t work for most most of the people throughout the various seasons of life ⁓ and I think that’s good. like every week even you’ve got to take a
Jess (37:11)
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (37:25)
hard look at like, does my capacity allow for this week? And next week, different and the next week different. And I think that’s just why Sage advice going there is no universal best practice. There’s only a practice for where you are in your audience and your business and your life, which is a really, really healthy way to look at it. ⁓ and I love that. Okay. I’m watching the clock. and I know that we have a tech cause I have literally 10 questions that I have, but I know I’m not going to get.
Jess (37:28)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No.
I love it.
Rory & AJ Vaden (37:54)
⁓ We’re going to have to continue this when your next book comes out. We’ll have to do another interview. But I have two last questions for you. And then I want to talk a little bit about this upcoming book you have and where people can go to get it. We’ll put the link in the show notes and what it’s about. And although it may not be for every single person in this particular moment, it most definitely is for everyone in a season of life. It affects all of us. So here’s my last two questions for you.
Jess (37:58)
Love. Can’t wait.
Mm-hmm.
Rory & AJ Vaden (38:24)
Do you have a favorite book that you have written? And why?
Jess (38:31)
Hmm. Well, I feel like this is a this is a cheap answer, but I do think it is. I’ll get I’ll give you two answers. One answer is the book I’m writing that comes out in fall 2026. I love but I have to say I usually say that about whatever book I’m writing, which authors should say if you’re writing a book and it’s not your favorite book like you need to revisit the outline, you know, my favorite book is usually the one that
Rory & AJ Vaden (38:55)
You
Jess (39:00)
I am currently writing. ⁓ I do love my book that’s coming out the fall and I’ll share more about it with you in a moment. But I will also say I have a book that is one of my least selling books. It’s one of my least well-known books. And the reason why is it came out the second week of the pandemic. it was just for a woman who loves marketing, it was so painful because it was like, there was just no way we could get loud about that.
in the way that the world was. ⁓ But I always say it’s for anyone who cares about the Enneagram, I identify as an Enneagram eight. So I’m direct, I am ⁓ brutally honest, ⁓ usually like my passion has turned all the way up to a 10. And I wrote a devotional that came out in 2020 called Take It Too Far. ⁓ And it’s 100,
a hundred essentially things of your faith to take too far. like take generosity too far, take courage too far, take compassion too far. ⁓ And the book, the reason why it’s one of my favorites is cause it’s like an Enneagram eight fever dream. It’s just somebody like telling you like, don’t be scared. Don’t be, you can do this. Like, you know, go for it. But also the, there is a backstory and a lore to that book that is so fun. And it is that I, ⁓
I care a lot about writing deadlines. I’m not the kind of author who’s who misses a deadline. I hit a deadline. Um, and the way my life was when this book, when I was writing it the year before the pandemic in 2019 is I basically forgot I had to write this book. I just basically forgot that it was on my plate. was a weird confluence of events. My, my editor at my publishing house left.
And so they never assigned me another editor. so I just forgot. So I could have gone to my publisher and said, like, guys, I’m sorry. I forgot to write this book. Like, I need three more months, you know? ⁓ But I didn’t want to do that. And so I essentially locked myself in my office for two days. And I wrote almost the entire book in 48 hours. And you would think that would make it, you know, a pretty crazy book, but it actually has
so much clarity and it has, it is just the, it’s one of my favorite things I’ve ever written and barely anyone knows about it because it came out in April, 2020.
Rory & AJ Vaden (41:31)
to help make sure people know about it now. in addition to the new book coming out, we’re also going to promote Take It Too Far.
Jess (41:40)
Take it too far. Yeah. Actually fun story also about that book. My sister a couple years ago, maybe that book came out in 2020. My sister, I have an older sister I’m really close with. She came to me maybe two years ago, maybe in like 2023. She said, hey, I have an idea for you. And I was like, I want to hear it. And she was like, I think I know what your next book should be. And I was like, tell me. She was like, you should write a book called Take it Too Far.
Rory & AJ Vaden (41:42)
I’m gonna say.
Jess (42:09)
you always say that and she was like, you always say that phrase. I think you should write a book called Take It Too Far. And I was like, Katie, I wrote that book. You helped me market it. It came on 2020. She was like, I totally forgot. So even my sister forgot. That’s how crazy it was. You know what I’m saying?
Rory & AJ Vaden (42:30)
get the word back out. We’re gonna relaunch. We need a relaunch of this. I love that. And I have it jotted down because I am also an Enneagram 8 and the whole concept is too far and also hitting deadlines. I live and die by my calendar and deadlines. My husband’s the opposite. He’s ⁓ more of a free spirit when it comes to that. I don’t even know how we function in the same household because we will hit the deadline at all costs. And he’s like, what’s the deadline?
Jess (42:34)
We do.
Ugh, you’ll love it.
Yes.
same.
Rory & AJ Vaden (42:59)
What are you talking about? So I totally relate. get that. Okay. My last quick question, and then I want to talk about this new book. What advice would you give to someone who’s out there who, you know, kind of back to this whole concept there, doesn’t have to be a book. It could be anything, but they’re adverse to marketing. And I know you talked about the mindset shift of, and that really what it is, it’s a mindset shift of going, this isn’t self-promotional. This is service, right? But,
Jess (43:19)
and
Rory & AJ Vaden (43:29)
For the person who’s struggling to go, I just, I’m having a hard time because I believe that some of the best kept secrets in the world are people who have spent all of their time honing their craft. They are a true expert and yet no one knows about them. What would you say is like the one thing to think, believe, do, say to help activate this marketing side that is in all of us to some degree so that we can help the world know that you’re there.
Jess (43:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, such a good question. Such a generous question to serve people. ⁓ So my team does an exercise we do every single week. Again, going back to the avatar, it is not a one and done thing for us. So we do what we call a who exercise every week. And every week we ask four questions about our who I’m going to call her she because we primarily work for women. But we say, what is she feeling right now?
What’s she feeling right now? if I’m going to do that exercise, I’m going to ask that question on, you know, a Tuesday in August. so I might say, okay, for me, a lot of my avatars, her kids are going back to school. She’s feeling overwhelmed. She’s feeling like, you know, fall might take her out. She, the summer was too short. Did she do a good job? So that’s just what she’s feeling right now. The second question we might ask is, the second question we do ask is how can we collectively serve her?
How can we serve her this week? How can we show up? What does she need to hear? You know, how could we be on her team? How could we help her move out of that problem? The third question that I have everybody on my team ask in relation to this is how can I in particular in my role serve her? ⁓ And I think that that is something no matter where you’re at in an organization, even if you’re the only person in the organization, it’s a really helpful question to ask.
And then the fourth question that we ask every single week is if you could say anything to her right now, what would you say? And what happens when we answer those four questions every single week is we basically come up with a marketing plan. A ⁓ very high amount of our social media copy and content comes from that fourth question. What would we most want to say to her? How could we most serve her?
⁓ And so I would say that is really what marketing is. Just remember, don’t get bogged down in promotion. ⁓ I love a funnel. I love a marketing plan. I love figuring out what are the new fun best practices. But if you know what your customer is feeling, if you can think about that, if you know how you can serve them, and if you can think about what you would most want to tell them about how you can serve them, that’s marketing.
Rory & AJ Vaden (46:22)
So good. Don’t be surprised if I start having my team do this every week, you’re going to hear from me. Like, guess what AJ is doing? So good. And honestly, it’s back to the most important part of all of this, which is the person that you’re called to serve. Because if you’re not doing it for them, then why are you doing it? Right? That’s so, so good. Okay, now I to finish taking notes after we’re done. now I know how to do it.
Jess (46:27)
Do it! I love it.
100%.
I love it.
Rory & AJ Vaden (46:53)
So we have this awesome new book that you have because I want to make sure we just have a quick moment to share this. You have your brand new book called What Comes Next coming out September 23rd shortly after this episode will air. Tell us what this book is about and who it is for.
Jess (47:11)
Yeah, absolutely. So this book is for any woman who is struggling with heartache, brokenness or burnout. So ⁓ in short, any woman who has felt tired or sad in any way, or form. And I love what you said earlier. Like she might not be feeling it right now, but we have all been tired or sad ⁓ at some point in our lives or we know a friend who is tired or sad. And so ⁓ I would say, yeah, it’s for the woman who has just got it.
gotten a confusing or devastating call from the doctor’s office. It’s for the woman whose kid is struggling with something and she’s asking like, what comes next? ⁓ It’s for the woman who’s feeling burnt out in her career and she’s saying she’s acknowledging maybe for the first time, you know, I’m burnt out. I don’t know what comes next after this. ⁓ It’s for the woman who maybe has just had like a long season of feeling down or feeling like she’s got low energy or ⁓ feeling confused or feeling like she needs some discernment.
⁓ So for anybody asking the question, what comes next? It’s a 40 day journey that will hopefully help her answer that question.
Rory & AJ Vaden (48:20)
⁓ Why’d you pick 40?
Jess (48:23)
You know, ⁓ I mapped out the different process I wanted to take her on. Interestingly, you won’t see this in the book at all. It was ⁓ an internal metaphor I used, but the internal metaphor I used in the book, I ended up splitting into four different sections of 10 days. And the internal metaphor I used is let’s say that you’re in a boxing ring and you get hit in the face.
So the first 10 days is as you’re falling. The next 10 days is kind of as you’re sitting there assessing your injuries. The next 10 days is as you’re standing back up and kind of dusting yourself off. And then the final 10 days is really encouraging her to go serve and go help somebody else who might’ve just gotten hit upside the head. As a woman who fell off my, I fell off my bike this morning, riding into the office, this metaphor is redolent for me because I’m a little bit of
cluts and I do fall very often. And so as I’m remembering this metaphor that I used right in the book, like, man, I learned that out again this morning, falling off my bike.
Rory & AJ Vaden (49:33)
I don’t know why. Yeah, and I said earlier, it may be not you right now, but it will be you at some point. We all have these seasons. so September 23rd, we will put the Amazon pre-order link in the show notes. And then when it comes out, we will put the order link in the show notes. And just to help revive what was potentially lost in 2020, we will also include Take It,
Jess (49:40)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Amazing.
Rory & AJ Vaden (50:03)
I wrote it down. Take it too far. We’re going to include that as well. That’s on my next week. So amazing. ⁓ So insightful. If people want to connect with you, what is your preferred platform?
Jess (50:03)
Take it too far. Yes.
You’re amazing. Thank you.
pretty much live on Instagram. I’m just a Connolly on Instagram.
Rory & AJ Vaden (50:24)
So connect with her. can also check out her podcast, the Jess Connelly podcast. Pick up one of 12 books. I have three, I have many to go. there’s a wealth of knowledge. only that, but you’re coaching the work that you guys are doing in your ministry and your church and just loving on the people who are in your community in Charleston. As someone who does not live there, thank you for being connected to the people around you because we all need that. Thanks for being available.
Jess (50:32)
you
Rory & AJ Vaden (50:54)
and staying humbly accessible. think those are great stage pieces of advice that I know for at least me, I’m gonna take and run with. And for everyone out there who’s listening, just remember that when you started this journey, you did it for a who. And as Jess so ⁓ graciously reminded us of today, don’t forget that who, no matter how far you go. So stay connected to your who. That’s why we’re doing all of this. Jess, this was amazing, fantastic.
Jess (50:57)
Mm.
Yeah.
Rory & AJ Vaden (51:21)
For all of you listening, stick around for the recap episode and we will see you next time on the influential personal brand.
It’s not letting me hit stop. So that’ll have to happen later, but that was awesome. ⁓
Jess (51:40)
⁓ I’m so grateful.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Rory & AJ Vaden (51:46)
This was awesome and wonderful. So nice to meet you. ⁓
Jess (51:50)
It was a joy
to connect. I hope we get to be in person together.
Rory & AJ Vaden (51:54)
I would love that. Like honestly, so much of what you said is so, so, so, so, so ingrained with our disbelief. And ⁓ there’s so much continuity and similarity. So this was also just really good for the audience to hear in a different voice, in a different lens, but some continuity and messaging that just here in the Fresh Voice was awesome. So thank you.
Jess (52:07)
⁓ Thank you, God.
Mm.
Yeah.
⁓
so glad. I’m so grateful. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Rory & AJ Vaden (52:25)
get all this out so I’ll let you get back to your hideaway writing. cannot watch you writing a book and launching a book at the same time. That just sounds like madness to me.
Jess (52:30)
Yes.
F
You know, was not, it was, it’s not ideal, but ⁓ I did it so that I could have the rest of the fall pretty much like, I was like, you know, I might as well just pump it out and be done. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Rory & AJ Vaden (52:45)
fair.
Thank
Good luck sending prayers for endurance. All of that.
All right, well, let’s be in touch. I would love to stay connected.
Jess (52:58)
Same, grateful for you, bye.
Rory & AJ Vaden (53:23)
to
have an internet connection.